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#rockbox log for 2007-05-04

00:00:32 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@jau31-3-82-239-20-145.fbx.proxad.net)
00:04:19 Part TrueJournals
00:04:21 Join Rincewind_ [0] (n=xchatter@i3ED6E8B1.versanet.de)
00:04:28 Join Hilikus [0] (n=rockero@bas4-montreal19-1242419325.dsl.bell.ca)
00:04:38Hilikushey guys
00:04:59Hilikushow do i know if a patch has been merged with the main trunk?
00:05:40 Quit chrisjs169 (Remote closed the connection)
00:05:51 Join Rincewind [0] (i=iAlQDsPs@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de)
00:06:00Domonokyit should be closed on the patchtracker with accepted as comment
00:06:12 Quit Rincewind^moep (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:06:48Hilikusoh ok, thank you Domonoky
00:07:26 Join chrisjs169 [0] (n=jack@pool-71-114-131-29.hrbgpa.dsl-w.verizon.net)
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00:10:07 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
00:11:23 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:11:37chrisjs169This isn't real critical, but when charging the Sansa, Rockbox will not shut down when the power button is pressed, and won't display a message. Since I have FS6733 added, I tried from the Power menu, and it said Rockbox: Charging
00:12:06chrisjs169To help avoiding others, would it be possible to have a notice like that when pressing the power button?
00:12:33 Quit illriginal (Client Quit)
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00:24:17 Quit obo ("bye")
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00:29:14a1titudeDoes anyone here know if each target had its own sourcecode would it increase effecency of the code and possably improve batterylife
00:29:22a1titude? If that makes sence?
00:30:16Domonokythat would cause big problems, for no help
00:30:45ender`a1titude: only if everything was hand-optimized in assembly
00:31:02ender`and even then, the differences would be very low
00:31:26 Join idnar [0] (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
00:31:45ender`nobody's stopping you from trying it of course
00:31:57 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00:34:12a1titudeahh, thanks, I'm not a programmer so alot of this is out of my comprehention, and I only have the 80gb ipod that is currently unsuported. I was just reading the 80gb wiki page and it said it would be easyer to program if it was just to support the 1024 clusters, but it got me thinking what the effects are of the battery life of the mp3 players.
00:34:49a1titudewith unoptimised code
00:35:07Domonokythe battery is only a problem on pp players (ie ipods,h10, and sansa)
00:35:26 Quit Rincewind (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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00:35:33 Quit HawkSlayer (Client Quit)
00:35:48a1titudepp players?
00:35:59chrisjs169portal player
00:36:06Domonokyportal player, the chip inside those players.
00:36:18a1titudeah thanks
00:36:28 Join bonbonthejon [0] (n=jon@69.61.203.3)
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00:45:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:46:40a1titudeI really want to get rockbox on the 80gb, mainly so I can try out making a theme! :p
00:47:33Domonokysomebody is working on it, but it will take time..
00:49:44 Join Mad-Cow [0] (n=chatzill@bas15-toronto12-1168012430.dsl.bell.ca)
00:50:14Mad-Cowhi, is anybody online right now?
00:50:44a1titudeyeah, I am happy for that, rockbox does seem to be ideal to what I want as a mp3 player and the ipod has great navagation, don't get me wrong, I'm not asking them to hurry up, I'm happy for them to take there time, I'm just kinda exsited. And The theme thing i'm really looking forward to. But yeah, I'm waffeling now. (sorry)
00:50:44Domonokyjust count the people.. hundreds .. :-)
00:51:05Mad-Cowok good
00:51:24Mad-CowI need some help with some code I modified
00:53:23chrisjs169this is something random, but what are the odds of forcing a sansa e200 into an e200r by replacing the i2c rom, bootloader, and firmware?
00:53:51Domonokyyou mean the other way round ?
00:54:11chrisjs169Yeah, I guess so
00:54:27Domonokythere were some tests..
00:54:48chrisjs169was it any good?
00:54:51Domonokyi think it was possible the wrong way round, but with a near death expirience..
00:55:01Domonokyof the player of cause .-)
00:55:09chrisjs169wrong way round?
00:55:24Domonokyan e200 to e200r..
00:55:30chrisjs169ah, ok
00:55:37Domonokythen you can run rockbox anymore.. bad :-)
00:55:43Domonokycant
00:56:01chrisjs169so it could be done, it would just be REALLY risky?
00:56:31Domonokyno, e200 to e200r doesnt work, because of encyption ? i dont know anymore
00:57:11chrisjs169ok, I thought that since e200tool forces the new bootloader to be written it could possibly work
00:57:32 Quit Rincewind^moep (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:58:08 Quit lids (Remote closed the connection)
00:58:17Domonokyi dont think it does, and trying is dangerous..
00:58:49 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:59:25Mad-Cowso can somebody help me out?
00:59:29 Quit a1titude (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:59:48chrisjs169yeah, after remembering that the partitions are different, and e200tool doesn't work on the r series, I closed e200tool :P
00:59:52DomonokyMad-Cow: only if you ask a question..
01:00
01:00:09 Quit Gursikh ("Leaving")
01:00:30Mad-CowI already asked earlier, I just need some help with syntax for some code I modified
01:00:51Domonokythat isnt a question..
01:01:30 Join lids [0] (i=lds@gateway/tor/x-7e9676ef9886b1de)
01:01:39Mad-Cowdoes that really matter?
01:01:44Mad-Cowit still gets the point across
01:02:22Domonokybut i still dont know whats wrong.. how should i answe such a question ?
01:02:49Mad-Cowwell you never told me you could help
01:03:03Domonokydont ask to ask, ask :-)
01:03:42Mad-Cowok, well my problem is on the last post of this topic http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10122.msg78522#msg78522
01:03:52Domonokyjust put your question, if somebody can answer it, they will do..
01:04:08Hilikushey, theres a conflict when i tried to update the code, i guess one of the patches changed something, what should i do to merge them?
01:04:35Hilikusits in onplay.c
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01:05:10 Quit ender` (" Trying to establish voice contact ... please yell into keyboard.")
01:06:41Mad-CowI'm trying to modify the bootloader to load another rockbox binary at the press of the UP button, and load the default with if it's not pressed. Problem is that it loads the non-default one no matter what. The loading code is in the last post of this thread: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10122.msg78522#msg78522 What's wrong with my if/else syntax?
01:07:33DomonokyMadCow: i am looking at it at the moment..
01:07:47Mad-Cowthanks :)
01:07:58Domonokyits very badly formatet in this post, makes it difficult to read
01:08:16Mad-Cowwell then what should I do?
01:08:24Mad-Cowhost the whole gigabeat.c somewhere?
01:08:59Mad-Cowor are you saying I suck at coding? :P
01:09:29Mad-Cowbecause I know that I suck, this is actually the first time I've actually tried editing c
01:09:30Domonokythere are some strange closing brackets..
01:09:46Domonokyi mean at strange positions.
01:10:10Mad-Cowwell that's understandable, I barely know how to use them.
01:10:13Mad-Cowbut how bad is it?
01:10:32Domonokymessd up :-)
01:10:46Mad-Cowwhat would I have to do to fix it?
01:11:16Domonokyremove the } after both load_firmware statements..
01:11:29Mad-CowI'll try that
01:11:39Domonokythats not all
01:11:49Mad-Cowand...?
01:12:03Domonokythere should be a } bevor the else {
01:12:12 Quit p3tur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
01:12:32Domonokyand then you need one at the end of the code snipped..
01:12:33Mad-Cowthanks
01:12:40Hilikusoh man if you dont know how to code you probably should learn that before playing with a bootloader
01:13:04Domonokyproperly intending the content inside { } helps
01:13:21Mad-Cowdon't worry, I already messed it up a few times and all I ahve to do is go into bootloader USB mode and replace it :)
01:13:31Domonokylet him try, perhaps he will learn :-)
01:13:32Hilikushehe
01:14:24Mad-Cowthat messed it up even more
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01:14:40Domonoky:-)
01:15:01Domonokyi dont really know the code in question, i just read the snippet you posted..
01:15:23Mad-Cownever mind, it compiled
01:15:27Mad-Cowlet me try it out
01:16:14 Part p3tur
01:16:26DomonokyHilikus: have you resolved you patch issue ? :-)
01:17:00Mad-Cowthe rest of the code is just bootloader/gigabeat.c with "#define BUTTON_UP 0x00000010" added at the top
01:17:08Mad-Cowand it still doesn't work
01:17:11Mad-Cow:(
01:17:18Hilikusim working on it, i dont really see the conflict
01:17:54Hilikusbut this is the first time i resolve a conflict, at work im the only one using svn so there are no conflicts, hehe
01:17:59DomonokyHilikus: you should have .rej files with the problematic code in it..
01:18:12Hilikusno, it wasnt patchig, it was updating
01:18:22Hilikusor syncing i think you call it
01:18:39Domonokyrockbox also uses svn
01:18:43Hilikusi know
01:19:05Rincewind_Hilikus: search the file that conflicts for "<<<"
01:19:07Domonokyso you have a patched build dir ?
01:19:16Rincewind_this is where the conflict is located
01:19:18 Join p3tur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
01:19:22Hilikusyes, i found that, but i dont know why there was a conflict
01:20:30Rincewind_could you paste it in a pastebin like http://rafb.net/paste/
01:21:29Hilikushttp://rafb.net/p/jCNSC898.html
01:21:49Hilikuswell, i do notice that the latest rev has a much shorter onplay function
01:22:16Hilikusthats probably what caused the conflict
01:22:35Domonokyi had the same problem today with another file.. the problem was remove functions.. :-)
01:22:38 Part a1titude
01:22:40Rincewind_onplay.c got the new menu api recently
01:22:55Hilikusoh cool
01:23:12Hilikusi dont know abouth the menu api but it sounds cool
01:23:28DomonokyMad-Cow: your {} are still not correct..
01:23:42Rincewind_well, it breaks your patch ^^
01:23:54Mad-CowI realized that, what else is wrong with them?
01:24:10Hilikusi dont know which patch is it, im gonna try to pin point it
01:24:41Hilikusdo you know how to do content search in linux by any chance?
01:24:53DomonokyMad-Cow: your else statement ends after the printf("Load... because there are no {}
01:25:05Rincewind_Hilikus: with grep
01:25:16Hilikusi cant remember the parameter
01:25:25Mad-CowOK, so where do put the { }?
01:25:29Hilikusill man it
01:25:38Rincewind_I usually call grep from emacs, so I don't type it out myself
01:25:55Hilikushow do you do that???
01:26:06Mad-Cowa { after else and a } underload_firmware?
01:26:31Rincewind_M-X rgrep
01:26:32DomonokyMad-Cow: first is correct second not..
01:26:43Mad-Cowthen where does the 2nd go?
01:26:53Hilikusoh cool, thanks, didnt know about that
01:27:19Domonokyat the end of the snippet..
01:27:33Rincewind_this is the command it gives me when I search "search string" in *.[ch] files:
01:27:39Rincewind_find . \( -path \*/CVS -o -path \*/.svn -o -path \*/\{arch\} -o -path \*/.hg -o -path \*/_darcs \) -prune -o -type f \( -name \*.\[ch\] \) -print0 | xargs -0 -e grep -i -nH -e search\ string
01:27:53Hilikuswow
01:28:13Rincewind_you can run this from the terminal and replace after -e with your query
01:28:21Mad-Cowthanks, I'll try that now
01:29:00Rincewind_this is the output, btw:
01:29:05Rincewind_./plugins/doom/d_deh.c:2703: found = deh_procStringSub(key, NULL, holdstring, fpout); // supply keyand not search string
01:29:05Rincewind_Grep finished (matches found) at Fri May 4 01:26:06
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01:29:42Mad-CowDomonoky: Nope it still doesn't work
01:30:10DomonokyMad-Cow: then you are on your own, read a C book..
01:30:50Mad-CowOh well, at least I tried
01:32:05 Quit p3tur (Remote closed the connection)
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01:34:43moosMad-Cow: you should try to ask an other time when that will be more C experts...you don't have luck not much main developers around
01:35:03moos1:34 here in Europe
01:35:24Domonokybut he should still read a c book :-)
01:35:39 Quit Slowking_Man (Client Quit)
01:36:01moosindeed :)
01:36:51 Quit petur ("Zzzz")
01:37:19moosDomonoky: nice work on rbutil btw (I tested it for the seconds times in my life :))
01:37:37Domonokythx
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02:00
02:09:04 Nick z35_1 is now known as z35 (n=z@adsl-226-228-239.dab.bellsouth.net)
02:11:24 Part pixelma
02:18:14 Quit moos ("Glory to Rockbox")
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02:45:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:46:56 Join webguest57 [0] (i=406bdc78@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-4d3fd89448a20958)
02:48:56webguest57hi i'm trying to create my own theme for rockbox for my ipod video.i know that it supports .JPEG images but i wanted to know if it could support .GIF images (the pictures that move)?????
02:49:00webguest57please help?
02:49:07webguest57: )
02:49:23 Quit skatteola ("Sleeep.")
02:51:20webguest57if anybody is on and they can help i would really appreciate if they could please tell. : )
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03:00
03:01:25 Join webguest83 [0] (i=406bdc78@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-c298cdbc43533573)
03:01:58webguest83hi can anybody please tell me how to use the mpeg player on my ipod video?
03:02:09webguest83i already have rockbox installed.
03:05:54webguest83??Hello??
03:06:05webguest83??Are you guy's busy??
03:06:20pearldiverwebguest83
03:06:27webguest83oh
03:06:29webguest83hi
03:06:33webguest83: )
03:06:40pearldiverhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer
03:06:47pearldiverthis page is rather useful
03:06:51webguest83ok thank you! : )
03:07:00pearldiverbut you "use it" just by "playing" the video file
03:07:25webguest83ok
03:07:38webguest83the thing is i cant playthat file??
03:07:43pearldiveryou can download a sample video from that page to test it
03:07:49webguest83i dont know why?
03:07:50pearldiversee if you can play it
03:08:06webguest83oh i already did that yesterday.
03:08:12webguest83didnt work
03:08:20pearldiverwhat happens when you try to?
03:08:38webguest83it worked perfectly before but not anymore.
03:08:59webguest83i ckick on the file but nothing happens
03:09:06pearldiverno messages on the screen?
03:09:15webguest83nope nothing.
03:09:47pearldiverare you using the latest build?
03:09:51webguest83sometimes it just takes me to the screen that shows up as if i was playing music.
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03:10:30webguest83i downloaded rockbox about 2 weeks ago, is that it?
03:11:08pearldiveryeah update it and try again
03:11:46webguest83ok can you please give me a link?
03:12:13pearldiverwhhttp://build.rockbox.org/
03:12:18webguest83Thank You! : )
03:13:21webguest83wait can the mpeg player play mp4 (the ipod format)???
03:13:47axlgreasetiresnope
03:14:22webguest83oh nowonder then!! Thanks for the help!!!!
03:14:31axlgreasetiresyour welcome
03:14:39webguest83: ) Bye!
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03:25:01Hilikushey guys, the text in my wps is all low, lower than in the screenshots i see for the wps, ive tried a lot of them and it always happens, what determines the Y position of the text??
03:26:11scorchedo you have the font pack installed?
03:26:28Hilikusyes
03:26:45scorchedoes the theme require patches?
03:26:57Hilikusi do see the text, its just the Y values are wrong
03:26:58Hilikusyes
03:27:11 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
03:27:14Hilikusim a missing a patch?
03:27:29 Join knapp_ [0] (n=knapp@67.132.247.218)
03:27:32scorchethe the theme requires one, possibly
03:27:50axlgreasetiresYou just need a font that fits i have had this problem many times.
03:28:06Hilikusoh so the theme doesnt automatically choose the font?
03:28:07krazykitHilikus, if you know the y values are wrong, why not fix them manually?
03:28:54axlgreasetiresWho takes the time to fix y values
03:29:10*krazykit raises his hand
03:29:15axlgreasetireshaha
03:29:39krazykitwhich is funny, because i'm usually really lazy about this stuff
03:30:39Hilikuswhat kind of patch would offset Y???
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03:34:27axlgreasetiresi have to go eat some ice cream see ya
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03:52:08Hilikusi dont see any Y value for tetx
03:52:11Hilikustext*
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03:52:22HellDragonhey
03:53:28 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@adsl-76-212-62-185.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net)
03:55:42HellDragonI just used ipodpatcher on my ipod but now when I reboot it it's stuck at apple logo (black screen with white apple), I can only reset it then it goes back there ?
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03:58:31HellDragon:(
03:59:00HellDragonit isnt even detected in itunes
04:00
04:00:53HellDragonnvm, i managed to boot into disk mode
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04:12:06Hilikuskrazykit: how do i change Y for text??
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04:17:43JdGordonHellDragon: did you forget to unzip rockbox.zip before rebooting?
04:17:55HellDragonno
04:18:00HellDragonwell it's fixed now
04:18:04scorcheif he is stuck at the apple, then that isnt teh issue
04:18:07JdGordonHilikus: in the wps? it works by lines... so you cant position text to a pixel value
04:18:28scorcheHellDragon: seems alot from #f-s have been coming in here lately =P
04:18:29JdGordonscorche: happened to me also. the rockbox.ipod file was corrupted and i got that sympton
04:18:37HellDragonscorche: :o
04:18:42HellDragonJdGordon: could be that
04:18:52Hilikusso how do i move everything up? for some reason my wps are all lowered, so low that it gets cut in the bottom
04:19:09JdGordonremove empty lines in the .wps
04:19:39Hilikusi thought empty lines were ignored
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04:20:18JdGordonno, they are used to positin tetx
04:20:21JdGordontext
04:20:25JdGordon... sort of
04:20:33*JdGordon gone
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04:21:33Hilikusi dont see any empty lines!
04:21:35Hilikus:S
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04:36:49HellDragonlol
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05:11:51webguest88Hello???
05:12:16webguest88Rockbox has stuffed my gigabeat... How do I fix it?
05:12:32krazykitdefine "stuffed"
05:13:03webguest88Loading Firmware file not found then shuts down
05:13:47krazykitdid you follow the instructions on the wiki?
05:14:13webguest88URL Link?
05:15:02krazykitseriously?
05:15:23krazykithttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatFXPort#Installation_Instructions
05:16:47krazykitthough it sounds like you'll need the recovery procedures found a bit below on the page
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05:17:10webguest88OK yeah It was all working. I used the software I got from Toshiba the "formatting utility for gigabeat" then it stuffed up
05:18:09krazykitdid you have rockbox before running the 'formatting utility'?
05:18:19webguest88Yes
05:18:29krazykityou probably need to reinstall then
05:18:42krazykitit likely overwrote the firmware and such
05:19:10webguest88I all worked fine. I just needed to format the gigabeat. And I want the old gigabeat software on the gigabeat now.
05:19:26krazykitoh, you wanted the original firmware?
05:19:28webguest88*It all worked fine.
05:19:38webguest88Yes, original firmware
05:19:45webguest88Please
05:19:46krazykitall you had to do was rename the fwimg01.dat and remove .rockbox
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05:21:08webguest88:(
05:21:36krazykitwell, i've never used the original firmware and i don't have windows to figure out the toshiba software, so i can't help much from here.
05:21:36webguest88Well now its stuffed, hey?
05:21:54krazykitin theory, the toshiba software should restore it
05:22:18webguest88Well it did not.
05:22:41webguest88How do I restore the \GBSYSTEM\FWIMG setup
05:22:42webguest88?
05:22:53krazykithopefully, you'd backed it up
05:22:54krazykitif not
05:23:33krazykiti have a backup of that entire folder
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05:23:43webguest88something to do with FWIMG01.DAT.ORIG ?
05:23:48krazykityeah
05:23:54krazykitrename that to fwimg01.dat
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05:25:13krazykitif you didn't replace the other files with the blanks, it should just boot you back ot the original firmware
05:25:48webguest88OK... Look likes its fine now...
05:26:12webguest88I just needed to change that FWIMG01.DAT.ORIG to FWIMG01.DAT and its fine
05:26:30webguest88deleted the old FWIMG01.DAT
05:26:55krazykityep.
05:27:01krazykitmight wanna back that folder up, just in case
05:27:38webguest88Oh?
05:27:58krazykityeah, it never hurts to back stuff up
05:28:08krazykitespecially since it sounds like the toshiba tool doesn't work
05:28:36webguest88No their tool is not great
05:28:56krazykitlike many manufacturers, good hardware, crummy software
05:30:33webguest88One last question...
05:31:05krazykitmmhm
05:32:36webguest88When useing the "formatting utility for gigabeat" what should I set the "Allocation unit size" at? 32KB, 16KB or 8KB?
05:33:07krazykituh, i think 32kb
05:33:30krazykitshouldn't matter though
05:34:02webguest88OK Kool
05:34:16webguest88Thanks you have been great!
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05:34:26Hilikuswhats this
05:34:27Hilikus%CfFFFFFF
05:34:34Hilikusin a wps
05:34:51krazykitlooks like a color, maybe?
05:35:04*krazykit isn't familiar enough with wps yet though
05:35:15Hilikusit does look like one, any idea which patch is that? or is that standard
05:35:47krazykiti can't tell the patch from a string in the WPS... the README or wherever it was hosted should say what patch/build it needs
05:37:20Hilikusit says which build it is, and the build has a million patches, i am doing my own build :S
05:37:53krazykitask the author?
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05:50:37HellDragonlol
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06:11:44pearldiverthere's something wrong with graphic EQ screen, i just noticed
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06:13:18pearldiverhttp://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-gigabeatf/configure_rockbox/images/ss-equalizer-240x320x16.png
06:14:04pearldivernow where the black select box is, it actually covers the numbers so you can't see them
06:14:14pearldivergigabeat target, latest build
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07:19:07HellDragonwow, my ipod is stuck in the file browser, it wont reset with select+menu and doesnt do anything
07:20:03scorcheif it wont reset with select+menu, then something is seriously wrong with your ipod...that is hardware
07:20:50Slasherihold is on?
07:20:52scorchedid you switch hold on and off and then hold select+menu for 30 seconds?
07:21:04HellDragonweird stuff happening
07:21:05HellDragonyeah i tried
07:21:43scorcheso you did what i just said?
07:23:13HellDragoni think it's because it's overheating
07:23:25scorchewhy would it be overheating?
07:23:31HellDragonbecause it's hot
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08:57:14CelticSoulhi guys
08:57:57CelticSoulis there any plan that rockbox will support Monkey Audio soon?
08:58:27B4gderno
08:58:39B4gderMonkey Audio is not licenced GPL-compatible
08:58:53B4gderand most likely requires too much CPU
08:59:14*petur can supply some monkey audio as wav or mp3 file :p
08:59:54CelticSoulthanks, do you know where I can find a list of support audio codec fox rockbox?
09:00
09:00:17CelticSoulcant find it in the wiki
09:00:28B4gderhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SoundCodecs#Current_status
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09:03:19CelticSoulwonderful, it would be perfect if Monkey Audio was in the list :)
09:03:53B4gderyou'd be a lot happier if you transcoded to flac or something instead
09:04:59CelticSoulI rather not, I dont like to mess with filenames and tags...
09:05:51B4gderyou do as you please of course
09:06:39CelticSoulthank you B4gder, have a nice day!
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09:46:17Toni1my first commit: and bingo, red
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09:48:36scorchethat looks suspiciously like an outdated arm-elf-gcc
09:48:52scorcheand where is your last name?!
09:49:54Toni1sorry, I didn't know, that the 'real name' is displayed there
09:50:15Toni1so maybe Linus can change that?
09:50:26scorchebut yeah...dont worry...your build is fine
09:50:34scorchepatch even
09:50:59Toni1Ooh, fine
09:51:33LinusNToni1: i just fized that
09:51:37LinusNfixed even
09:51:46Toni1Thanks, Linus
09:51:59LinusNi just sent you an email btw
09:52:21Toni1so the commit was just in time
09:58:39B4gderthat red is a bad compiler on Slasheri's box
09:59:13B4gderI'll disable arm builds on it until it is fixed
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10:00
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10:03:11linuxstbCelticSoul: What device are you running Rockbox on, and what compression level are your APE files?
10:03:12Toni1linuxstb: Am I right, that currently the main thread on PP502x does nothing except plugin execution?
10:03:39linuxstbNo - all the UI stuff happens on the main thread.
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10:04:19B4gderToni1: welcome to the team!
10:04:33Toni1Bagder: thanks :)
10:05:15LinusNyou sould have had svn access a long time ago
10:05:44Toni1Really, I didn't know about that :-)
10:06:50earHertzamazing. why would sansa make it hard to port rockbox?
10:07:06linuxstbWhat do people think about Toni committing his Sansa emulator to SVN?
10:07:16B4gderI'd love to see that in svn
10:08:06linuxstbMe too.
10:08:24Toni1Hmm, still a lot of work to do on that
10:08:54Mode"#rockbox -o Bagder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
10:08:59B4gderearHertz: sandisk has put some efforts in making it hard to run custom firmwares on the sansas at least
10:09:36earHertzB4gder: yes, i just don't understand why. seems that not doing so gives them a slight edge against teh ipod behemoth
10:09:39B4gderespecially the R models, but there Real has done additional work
10:09:45earHertzer, would give
10:09:55CelticSoullinuxstd: I'm using iPod Color 4G, not sure about the ape compression level
10:10:02earHertzreal as in real player? oh
10:10:07linuxstbMaybe one day a DAP will have the "otheros" feature similar to the PS3...
10:10:26B4gderearHertz: yes, as in Real the company behind Rhapsody
10:10:33earHertzoh
10:11:03earHertzrockbox on ipod looks cleaner since I last checked in here
10:11:09earHertzquite sweet
10:11:22B4gderin general I think the manufacturers just prevent custom firmwares because of general fear and not really with a good solid reason
10:12:07earHertzfoolish, given they could get teh product out much more cheaply by using rockbox
10:12:16scorcheim sure warranty replacements are a good part of that as well...people messing up the device in a way that the company cannot tell that a different firmware was used
10:12:18GodEaterB4gder: well in the days when apple still believed in DRM, it would make sense for them to make life difficult for other firmwares since otherwise it would be deemed too easy to allow music piracy
10:12:42linuxstbCelticSoul: If they are either "extra high" or "insane", then there is no chance your ipod will ever be able to play them - APE is a very slow codec. The lower compression levels may be feasible, but would require a lot of work to optimise a decoder. If I was you, I would investigate tools to batch-convert to FLAC. foobar2000 or dbpoweramp can probably both do it.
10:12:52B4gdernot really, just replacing firmware does not make it easy to play DRM music in general
10:13:13GodEaterB4gder: no - but it makes it easier to play non-DRM music, and transfer it between devices
10:13:18B4gdertrue
10:13:32GodEaterthis is the assumption I always worked on anyway
10:13:33linuxstbGodEater: Apple's firmware plays unprotected MP3 files, so what's the difference?
10:13:39B4gderbut virtually all companies do this counter-measurements in one way or another
10:13:48GodEaterlinuxstb: yes, but it stores them in that silly obfuscated manner
10:14:21earHertzactually I better understyand apple being closed, to preserve the cachet of the apple. But not so much those devices that trail the ipod
10:14:21GodEaterI'm not saying that made it impossible to get around, just that I think they had to show due dilligence to the record companies
10:14:41linuxstbGodEater: I think that's just a side-effect of being a database-only firmware, rather than a copy-protection measure. Why deal with very long filenames in the database if the user is never shown them?
10:15:09earHertzlinuxstb: yeah, but thta doesn't explain the random distribution into different directories
10:15:22GodEaterlinuxstb: also true, but I still believe they wanted to assure the record companies that they'd made it a pain in the ass to get the music off the ipod
10:15:22linuxstbearHertz: It does - itunes just hashes the filenames
10:15:40B4gderthey just split the hash on dir name and file name somehow
10:15:40earHertzoh, really, so it's not random?
10:15:42earHertzoh, oh
10:15:43CelticSoullinuxstb: I'm on gentoo and I dont want to convert between codecs and mess with tags and filenames...
10:16:06B4gderCelticSoul: the grim reality is that APE was the wrong codec to go with from the start...
10:16:06GodEaterCelticSoul: be prepared for distro ridicule now :)
10:16:23earHertzhuh, is that to even out teh areas of the disk used?
10:16:58earHertzAPE is the right codec, because he can always get back to the wav file and rip that
10:17:06CelticSoulI dont rip those files, got them from somewhere else
10:17:08scorcheFLAC cant?
10:17:19earHertzscorche: it can too
10:17:28B4gderearHertz: but he's saying he wants to stick with what he used originally, which then is APE...
10:17:50 Quit desowin ("use linux")
10:17:51earHertzI meant, as compared to teh first time I ripped stuff, using some dumbass real player gui and proprietary format
10:17:56earHertzyears ago ;)
10:17:59scorcheexactly...just because APE is lossless, it doesnt mean it is "the right codec"
10:18:30B4gderlet's all wait for fixed-point TAK in GPL-compatible C code without malloc ;-)
10:18:49earHertzk?
10:18:51earHertztak?
10:18:56CelticSoulguys, I did not say which codec is right or wrong, I just dont want to mess with tags and filenames, that's all
10:19:07GodEaterI'm drawing a blank on TAK too
10:19:21B4gderearHertz: rather recent lossless codec with good numbers
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10:19:36earHertzzh
10:19:38earHertzah
10:19:45scorchehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAK_%28audio_codec%29
10:20:01earHertzB4gder: out of curiosuity, do you still use your archos?
10:20:18B4gdernope
10:20:26earHertzwhat then?
10:20:38B4gdernot as a DAP at least, only as a paper weight ;-)
10:20:50GodEaterscorche: nice - article scheduled for deletion
10:20:54B4gderI use my X5 mostly and sansa occationally
10:21:08B4gderand I intend to exersize my h140 soon as well
10:21:13earHertzhabven't tried those
10:21:23earHertzbut I do like my ipod video
10:21:46earHertzfunny thing is, i mostly play a very few albums despite have 60 gb
10:22:02*GodEater lets his H140 live in the car - useful for long trips now that it has a 2200mah battery
10:22:46*B4gder still awaits the first rockbox-related podcasts to appear
10:23:19*kclaf has his ipod5G in car plugged to alpine headunit and blames rockbox for lacking AiR protocol support
10:23:35*kclaf blames himself for not developping it ;)
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10:29:25aliaskIs there any way to tell an iPod's generation from the firmware partition?
10:30:40earHertzthere are magic numbers, but i forget where
10:31:05aliaskThere's a firmware format version in there, but it's not very specific
10:31:18earHertzdunno
10:31:21aliask3 = mini, photo 4th and 5th generation
10:31:39linuxstb_aliask: Look at the ipodpatcher source - the firmware version can be used for anything later than the 3rd gen.
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10:37:26markunCelticSoul: which player do you use for your APE files?
10:37:37linuxstb_CelticSoul: If you want to play those files on your ipod, you have no choice - we can't make Monkey's Audio efficient. The fact is simply that it's far too complex a codec.
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10:39:47linuxstbCelticSoul: FLAC on the other hand is a very efficient codec and highly recommended for use in Rockbox.
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10:41:25markunwavpack is not too bad either
10:42:35CelticSoulmarkun: I use Audacious with MAC for APE files
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10:43:23CelticSoullinuxstb: thanks, I really have no choice then
10:43:42linuxstbCelticSoul: Foobar runs under Wine...
10:44:33CelticSoulI dont like wine, both wine for linux and wine in real life :)
10:45:02linuxstbYou've made life hard for yourself then...
10:45:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:45:24CelticSoulwine just make people lazy to port their apps to linux
10:46:10linuxstbThen I wonder why you chose to use a restricted format like APE.
10:46:39markunCelticSoul: there are a few "ape2flac" scripts
10:47:02CelticSoulman I did not chose it, I got those files from somewhere else
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10:47:16markunCelticSoul: not everybody's paying attention today ;)
10:47:44B4gderyou chose to keep the format ;-)
10:48:12linuxstbThat's what I meant - if I acquire any APE files, I immediately convert to FLAC.
10:49:24markunI'm such a non-audiophile that they go straight to Ogg Vorbis here :)
10:49:25CelticSoulok, looks like I have no choice but to convert then
10:49:31LinusNdoes APE have any advantage over FLAC?
10:49:38markunLinusN: better compression
10:49:42LinusNaha
10:49:49CelticSoulyes
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10:49:58LinusNway better, or just better?
10:50:02B4gderbut the difference is not a lot better
10:50:18CelticSoulthey say it's 30-40%
10:50:22B4gderhahaha
10:50:24linuxstbBut at a big penalty over decode time - APE can be between about 4 and 50 times as slow to decode as FLAC.
10:50:35LinusN30-40% better than flac? wow!
10:50:38B4gderthe tables I've seen have not shown 30-40
10:50:39markunLinusN: not so big if you ask me: http://www.monkeysaudio.com/comparison.html
10:50:56linuxstbI thought it was closer to about 2%...
10:51:01B4gderyeah
10:51:11markunbut maybe the monkeysaudio guys lied to make the other codecs look better on that page :)
10:51:13linuxstbAssuming "flac -8"
10:51:47CelticSouldont blame me, I got that info from my friend
10:51:50CelticSoul:)
10:51:54LinusN:-)
10:51:59LinusNnever trust your friends :-P
10:52:06markunindeed! :)
10:52:07B4gdername your friend and we'll send the hit team over
10:52:25*B4gder has no friends
10:52:27CelticSoulLOL
10:52:32B4gder*g*
10:52:53LinusNwe got rid of Bagder's friends a long time ago
10:53:03linuxstbHere's a more up to date comparison - http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossless_comparison#Comparison_Table
10:53:04markunI can imagine the difference between ape and flac compression also depends on the audio
10:54:25markunlinuxstb: how does WavPack decoding compare to Flac with rockbox?
10:55:01linuxstbIt's slower than FLAC but I'm not sure by how much.
10:56:26*amiconn doesn't expect big differences in compression ratio between any 2 lossless codecs (provided they're compared in their maximum compression modes)
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10:58:03linuxstbamiconn: The table I liked to shows that the various codecs vary between about 53% and 63% of the original WAV size. I assume that table is based on the average over a large set of test files. Although it uses the default encoder settings.
10:58:11linuxstbs/liked to/linked to/
10:58:12markunweren't there were some problems with 24-bit support for flac?
10:58:32linuxstbNot problems as such, but the reference encoder isn't very good with 24-bit files.
10:58:59linuxstbThat's something the author is working to improve. But it's just an encoder issue, rather than the format itself afaik.
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11:01:10amiconnThe comparison table says APE is open source?
11:01:24B4gderit is
11:01:27*amiconn thought it wasn't, and that'd be the reason why we cannot support it...
11:01:29B4gderjust not GPl compatible
11:01:32B4gderGPL
11:01:46markunlinuxstb: ah yes: http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/flac-dev/2007-April/002179.html
11:03:10amiconnAh, that nasty problem again :\
11:03:19B4gderyeps
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11:08:47markunamiconn: I'm listening to another book using eSpeak again :)
11:08:58crop markun: what are the kbd files used for? Will the custom layout be shown when e.g. entering the name of the file to save the config to?
11:09:09markuncrop: yes, exactly
11:09:18markunthey change the vkeyboard
11:10:31linuxstbamiconn: The Monkey's Audio author made up his own license and has refused many requests for him to use something standard. The only solution would be to write a decoder from scratch.
11:10:44cropmarkun: are the lines wrapped? I.e. how can a get the default layout? BTW: it uses the system font, right? And the custom kbd uses UI font?
11:11:16cropmarkun: default layout arranges symbols to rectangular blocks −− a nice feature
11:11:48markuncrop: the kbd wraps until it encounters a newline
11:12:38markunbut maybe you can help think about a better way to do the layouting
11:13:29markunbut I think this way works ok for now and is quite flexible
11:14:26cropmarkun: you mean it works like "wrap lines" in text editors?
11:14:45markuncrop: yes
11:14:57cropAnd pages are only scrolled vertically?
11:15:04markunyes
11:15:21markunah, good point, we could do horizontal scrolling
11:15:23linuxstbmarkun: What do you think about having virtual keys for actions such as BACKSPACE, ENTER and CANCEL ? IMO that would make the keyboard much friendlier for occasional users.
11:15:35markunlinuxstb: I think so too
11:15:36cropOne last question (I've never used that): how is the grid computed?
11:16:05amiconnWhy virtual keys for actions that can be performed directly?
11:16:08markunby looking at the with of each glyph in the kbd file and choosing the biggest
11:16:08cropAnd how can I turn it back to the default layout and system font?
11:16:55markunlinuxstb: or, to annoy amiconn even more we can add a menu with backspace, enter, cancel etc :)
11:16:59linuxstbamiconn: Because it's friendlier and is what people are used to with virtual keyboards.
11:17:27amiconnStrange idea... the current method is significantly faster
11:17:40markunamiconn: you can beat me up when we meet in sweden :)
11:17:48cropmarkun: biggest in the whole font or only on the displayed page?
11:17:52markunfor all the pain I've caused you over the years
11:17:57linuxstbamiconn: I'm not saying get rid of the shortcuts...
11:18:02markuncrop: only in the file
11:18:23markunbut yes, we could have done it per page
11:18:43cropmarkun: no, I like it per file −− no jumps in the GUI
11:18:44markunbut this makes the code a lot simpler
11:19:10cropmarkun: how about returning to the default and system font? Is it possible at all?
11:19:12markuncrop: maybe you can play around with it and make suggestions for improvements
11:19:20markunI'm not sure if it's possible
11:19:53cropmarkun: I hope resetting settings (and possibly a restart) will do
11:19:56markuncrop: were you suggesting horizontal crolling btw?
11:20:12markuninstead of wrapping
11:21:06markuncould be nice
11:21:57cropmarkun: no, just wanted to know how it works. You can trim your KBD file to your font and screen size. Id isn't worth code complexity IMO. But if could be done at no cost then it would be a nice feature.
11:22:16cropOTOH we'd then have vert and horiz scrolling which is too complicated
11:23:10cropYou'd have to have key for the two sorts of scrollings −− a waste
11:24:11cropHrm... but if you move the cursor to the right then it could scroll... I don't know since (as I said) I've never used that, the default layout did serve me well enoght
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11:26:09markuncrop: what about always keeping the cursor in the center and scroll the keyboard around when you move up/down/left/right? ;)
11:26:36markunjust kidding
11:27:27amiconnKeeping the cursor in the center and scroll the keyboard around would actually be a good thing
11:27:32B4gderthere could be a scroll margin
11:28:07amiconn(and the cursor would start moving when the keyboard margin is reached
11:28:09markunhm, maybe I'll implement it to try
11:28:39amiconnThen we could get rid of the multi-page split for small LCDs, and the default vkeyboard could also use the UI font
11:29:29markunok, you got me convinced my idea was not so bad after all :)
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11:37:19cropNo margin is needed. Just wrap it left to right and up-down. I.e. make it a sphere.
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11:39:45markuncrop: yes, that would be possible too
11:39:49pixelmacrop: how would you enter line edit mode then on some targets?
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11:40:08markunpixelma: how do you enter it now?
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11:40:23linuxstbUsing the default kbd layout (i.e. no .kbd file) on my ipod Color, I get a large (about 25% of the width) block of spaces on the right side of the screen which the cursor moves around in - is that intended?
11:41:15pixelmamarkun: going "up" from the uppermost line in the vkeyboard, or "down" from the lowest...
11:41:27markunaha
11:41:34markunlack of buttons?
11:42:30markunpixelma: well, from the new vkeyboard menu item "line edit mode" then ;)
11:42:47pixelmaon Ondio that seems to be the reason, but afaik this is the case on other targets as well - on my M5 it works the same way and I find it quite handy...
11:42:47moosyup like on X5/M5 for exemple
11:43:26markunmaybe we can work on the vkeyboard code at the devcon
11:43:37amiconnmarkun: The player vkeyboard used to have a menu. I can tell you, it was incredibly cumbersome and unintuitive...
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11:48:29markunamiconn: yes, to go to a menu for every backspace sounds terrible
11:48:56cropyes, that nasty line edit mode.... maybe long SELECT press? Or MODE? I don't know what keys are available on different daps
11:49:38amiconnThe Ondio has 6 buttons
11:49:52linuxstbIMO, one aim for Rockbox's UI should be that at least the main features of Rockbox (and I would include the keyboard in that) are usable by anyone without them needing to read the manual - i.e. give them a device with Rockbox installed and they can use it. It currently takes experimentation and failure to deduce how the keyboard works, and even then a user may not guess all the key combinations available.
11:49:52pixelmacrop: all "easy" presses (i.e. no combos) they are used
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11:50:07amiconnOff (or more correctly Power) is cancel, short Mode selects letter, L/R/U/D moves, and long Mode is accept
11:50:19amiconnNothing left for extra functions
11:50:41mooslinuxstb: indeed
11:51:11amiconnlinuxstb: The vkeyboard needs experimentation??
11:51:50moosfor find keys...
11:52:04linuxstbamiconn: Yes. For example, "select" would seem a natural button to confirm the entry on an ipod, but it doesn't.
11:52:10moosif the user didn't read the manual
11:53:16linuxstbDAPs simply don't have keys which are obviously labeled for virtual keyboard use.
11:53:55pixelmathe only things I maybe wouldn't have found out without asking is "accept" and "cancel" but once you know it, its nice to have. Hard to find a better way...
11:54:23linuxstbI agree the shortcuts should be there, I just think virtual keys would be nice as well.
11:54:54moospixelma: an "accept" item and a "cancel" one ?
11:55:05mooslinuxstb: same here
11:57:50cropActually, I've never needed a custom kbd. If I need some special chars in the name then I just save the file under what is suggested and edit the name on the PC afterwards. I find the default layout better than the layout with the UI font. More chars fit in and nice blocks.
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12:00:11markuncrop: it's be nice for non english rockbox users
12:00:27markunit has a korean input-method for example
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12:02:14cropmarkun: but it's still easier done on a PC
12:02:39markuncrop: but koreans love gadgets :)
12:03:22cropmarkun: but that much?! =:-O
12:03:24amiconnIt all depends. E.g. on the recorders virtual buttons for operations won't make sense at all
12:03:40amiconn...because of its soft buttons which are labeled in the button bar
12:03:52cropSo personally I'd keep to a bare minimum
12:04:17amiconnAnd by using the UI font I could have _more_ chars per page than with the sysfont on the archoses...
12:04:25cropA DAP is not a full fledged input device. Period.
12:04:53markuncrop: we can still improve it. Why are you so negative?
12:05:01markunor 'realistic' :)
12:05:17cropThat's the right word! :-)
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12:15:48cropA DAP will never be at text input as a PC with a real keyboard. That's why I think we should make text input on the dap just good enough but not as perfect as it's on a PC
12:16:23linuxstbcrop: Shouldn't we simply try to make it as good as we can?
12:17:10linuxstbYou seem to be saying we shouldn't try...
12:18:14markuncrop: well, I'm glad we don't all think like this
12:18:33markunor else I wouldn't be able to watch Twin Peaks on my 'DAP' now
12:18:58croplinuxstb: no, that I'm not saying. I only think that we shouldn't make it overcomplicated and spend too much time on it and increase the bin size.
12:19:22linuxstbcrop: OK, I agree with that.
12:19:50linuxstbNot necessarily spending time on it, but the bin size and complication issues.
12:20:36croplinuxstb: and personally for me the default layout is good enough (see above) But (see amiconn's reply) it depends on the DAP. I own a h120.
12:21:16croplinuxstb: *too much* time ;-) (your next post: define "too much" :-)))
12:21:43linuxstbcrop: That's up to the developer - if someone wants to spend time on the keyboard, why not?
12:22:17cropNo reason why not, absolutely.
12:22:57markun12:04 < crop> A DAP is not a full fledged input device. Period.
12:22:58Pimpdaddypaynemarkun! goed dag!
12:23:06markunPimpdaddypayne: good day man :)
12:24:46cropmarkun: yes, I still think so. That's why I think that the default layout is good enough. But if someone likes to work on it I'll never say "don't" Just I wouldn't do it.
12:25:17markunPimpdaddypayne: do you see my PM's?
12:25:42PimpdaddypayneI see them! :)
12:25:42markuncrop: ok
12:27:07cropThere is a red build and nobody screams?
12:27:46B4gderwe scream
12:27:50B4gderat Slasheri
12:28:12B4gderand disabled arm builds on his build server in the mean time
12:28:23cropB4gder: why at him?
12:28:30cropJust ahabit? :-)
12:28:34B4gderclick the red link and see
12:28:46B4gderand consider his server did the build
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12:29:18webguest81yo
12:29:27markunwebguest81: 'sup?
12:29:57webguest81markun: fine, bout you ?
12:30:17cropB4gder: so you should blame the server, not Slasheri
12:30:33B4gderwe blame the compiler actually
12:30:46B4gderbut Slasheri's in charge of the server and the one who can upgrade the compiler
12:30:50scorcheand Slasheri's lack of updating ;)
12:31:20linuxstbB4gder: Does configure do any validation of minimum gcc versions?
12:31:26B4gdernope
12:32:14markunwebguest81: same old
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12:32:44B4gderlinuxstb: but I guess displaying some kind of warning would be suitable
12:33:42linuxstbMaybe it's not worth the effort, but it would be nice if the build system could distinguish between builds failing due to environment (and try a different server) and fail due to bad code.
12:34:11B4gderthat'd require a bit too much work to be worth it imho
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12:34:56B4gderToni1: try to refer to tracker entries as "FS #[num]" in commit messages
12:35:06Slasherii will update the compilers soon
12:35:08B4gderas then they'll be URLs etc in the logs
12:35:13Toni1ok, will do next time
12:35:26SlasheriFS#xxxx works fine as well
12:35:26B4gderSlasheri: great
12:35:42B4gderright, space in between is optional
12:37:11Toni1regarding PP502x register definitions: shouldn't the CPU_INT_STAT be changed to the correct value?
12:37:50Toni1currently it is defined as 0x64004000 but the correct one is 0x60004000
12:38:41preglowsure
12:38:44Toni1which doesn't matter because of memory address mapping anyway, but my emulator has some problems :)
12:38:45preglowit's the same thing due to liasing, though
12:38:52preglowbut feel free to change it
12:39:12Toni1ok, will do soon
12:39:54amiconnShouldn't the emulator behave as close to the target as possible?
12:40:14preglowwe don't know exactly how the memory controller works
12:41:04Toni1these oddities makes things more complicated, as they are already
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12:45:58linuxstbpreglow: Can you remember where 0x64004000 came from? Was it just a lucky typo?
12:46:11Toni1false alaram: barrywardell did it already
12:46:29*linuxstb spots 0x64004000 in the IPL source...
12:46:53linuxstbWhich probably implies that the Apple firmware uses it...
12:49:21preglowlinuxstb: ipl, yes
12:49:44preglowi don't think i've ever seen it in disassemblies myself
12:53:11Toni1linuxstb: I enabled the cop cpsr register for IRQs and got unexpected interrupts beside TIMER1 interrupts, any idea?
12:54:54Toni1none of the COP_INT_STAT and COP_IE_STAT bits was set
12:55:05preglowhmm
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13:02:15linuxstbToni1: On your Sansa I assume?
13:02:52Toni1yes
13:04:09Toni1I will investigate further
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15:12:41markunoverall happy rockbox users over at mygigabeat: http://www.mygigabeat.com/forum/messages.cfm?threadid=51C8C17D-3048-2906-EA49535BE3F8D29B
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15:15:49eMbHow's the runtime when viewing videos with gigabeat?
15:18:07linuxstb_eMb: I don't think anyone has ever run a test. But the need to have the backlight permanently on will drain the battery a lot.
15:18:17eMbaye, also decoding
15:18:55eMbRight now trying to find the cheapest available player that also has Usable status with rockbox
15:20:01linuxstb_"usable" depends on how important battery life is to you, plus if you want to use CPU-intensive features such as video or the software DSP effects (equaliser etc).
15:20:08markunyes, there was a test by llorean
15:20:13markunabout 5 hours iirc
15:20:19eMbThat's pretty good.
15:20:20linuxstb_Ah yes, I remember now,..
15:20:40eMbAnyways, I'm not going to use any DSP effects, visualizations, video, or such.
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15:21:10markuneMb: one of the biggest consumers is the backlight, if you lower the brightness you could gain some more time
15:22:48markuneMb: look at the difference with LCD on or off http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/viewfile/Main/GigabeatInfo?rev=2;filename=Power.html
15:23:29eMbwow
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15:27:20markunlinuxstb_: we should add brightness control to mpegplayer for targets which support it
15:28:02amiconnWhy separate brightness control when you have it in rockbox itself?
15:28:39eMbWouldn't mpegplayer brightness just change the pixels to display more white?
15:29:50dionoeai though that LCDs used a backlight
15:30:01dionoeaso the pixel's color isn't related to brightness
15:30:06dionoeaunless i'm wrong of course :)
15:30:24eMbYeah, so mpegplayer shouldn't have anything to do with brightness?
15:30:32eMbI don't know. Don't listen to me.
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15:31:34DarkJesusCan someone tell me if the audioscrobbler capabilities are in the default build of rockbox?
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15:32:05eMbStrange, the iPods seem cheaper than both irivers and iaudios
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15:33:03GodEaterDarkJesus: yes they are
15:33:08DarkJesusAwesome
15:33:12B4gderand the gigabeats and sansas are cheaper than ipods...
15:33:20GodEateronly we call them last.fm, not audioscrobbler
15:33:50GodEaterI <3 my gigabeat
15:34:09eMbawesome, I've long wanted my old creative player to support audioscrobbler
15:37:52markunamiconn: because you cannot go back to the rockbox menu from withing the mpegplayer plugin
15:38:02markunsame reason why we have volume control in the mpegplayer
15:38:03linuxstb_markun: Maybe making the LCD settings menu accessible from within mpegplayer would be better?
15:38:29markunlinuxstb_: which other settings in there would you want to change?
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15:39:28linuxstb_markun: OK, probably none...
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15:40:35amiconnmarkun: Do you change brightness all the time while watching tv?
15:40:47amiconnUnlike volume, you probably don't...
15:41:01markunI do, otherwise I wouldn't suggest it
15:41:43GodEaterI would suggest it makes even MORE sense on a portable player to have easy access to brightness
15:42:03GodEatersince if you're watching on the bus or something, lighting conditions change quicker than in your living room
15:42:22markunamiconn: if you are trying to watch something outside and the lighting coditions change the screen can become almost invisible
15:42:52markunand don't tell me "I just wouldn't watch it outside"
15:42:53eMbHey, the feature comparison page says the files in dir limit for rockbox is 10000?
15:43:08eMbI read otherwhere on the site that this is user configurable. Is 10000 the absolute max?
15:43:16GodEatereMb: it's configurable
15:43:17eMbOtherwise a footnote or change is warranted.
15:43:19GodEater10,000 is the default
15:43:26amiconnNo it's not
15:43:27linuxstb_I thought 400 was the default?
15:43:30GodEaterno ?
15:43:37amiconn10000 is the maximum. 400 is the default
15:43:41eMbok
15:43:45amiconnTjis is *per dir* not in total
15:43:46eMbThen no need for any change.
15:43:56*GodEater heads for the back of the class with his dunce's cap in hnad
15:44:07amiconn*This even
15:44:21linuxstb_amiconn: Do you know why there's a maximum?
15:44:31amiconnYes
15:44:40linuxstb_:) What's the reason?
15:44:44B4gderthere needs to be values to select from in the settings screen if nothing else
15:44:48amiconn10000 dirs already take half of the memory on the archoses
15:45:42linuxstb_But in theory, an insanse user could recompile and increase it?
15:45:55linuxstb_insane user even
15:46:08amiconnOn targets with more ram, yes
15:46:26DarkJesusWow, rockbox looks totally different
15:46:26amiconnFor some reason the default is now 1000?!??!?!!
15:46:28B4gderthe "100000-dir entries custom build"
15:46:52amiconnJdGordon must have changed that during the settings transition :(
15:48:50markunDarkJesus: better? :)
15:49:36eMbHey, does the Gigabeat MEG-F40 count as an F40 as far as compatibility go?
15:49:44GodEaterit doesn't just count
15:49:48GodEaterit IS an F40
15:49:56GodEaterwe just abbreviated it
15:50:04eMbalright, great
15:50:10eMbI'm considering buying one.
15:50:16DarkJesusmarkun, yes
15:50:17eMbFor hot rockbox action.
15:50:19GodEaterthey're great vlue
15:50:46eMbgreatest GB/buck value out of the supported models, it seems
15:51:03markunand MHz/buck :)
15:51:11markunI think..
15:51:11GodEaterheh - *easily* that
15:51:29B4gdergreatest [fill in]/buck for almost any fill-in
15:51:48markuneMb: but no radio or recording
15:51:59eMbI don't need either.
15:52:01linuxstb_amiconn: Are you going to fix the default back to 400?
15:52:16eMbRadio is unbearable most of the time, and recording is not something I've ever felt the need for.
15:53:13GodEaterso who's going to write the TCP/IP stack for when we get the Zune going, and want internet radio ? ;)
15:53:50linuxstb_GodEater: You can just reboot into zune-linux for that...
15:54:05markunGodEater: http://www.sics.se/~adam/uip/
15:54:06GodEaterof course, I'd forgotten how successful that project was...
15:54:10B4gderthere are freely availbly tiny IP stacks
15:54:42eMbCan't you just use already available (GPL) code for that, or is the complete-rewrite policy all-encompassing?
15:54:50linuxstb_We would have to start worrying about security then though...
15:55:09GodEaterlinuxstb_: how depressing
15:55:30*GodEater wouldn't want his DAP to get DDOS at the traffic lights
15:56:54intgrHehe, does security really matter in such a device?
15:58:27intgrAnd, well, Rockbox is probably already vulnerable to maliciously crafted audio files.
15:59:02B4gderwell, if it would reboot or raise volume when a funny person in the car next to you press a button it might turn boring
15:59:34intgrBroadcasting a message remotely would be a good prank.
16:00
16:00:00eMb"This is the FBI, turn over immediately."
16:00:37intgrYeah, something like that.
16:00:52eMbor just a good merzbow track :)
16:02:27eMbI've got to head out. Nice talking to you.
16:02:27 Part eMb ("(>^_(>_")
16:03:22intgrDoes the Zune have a mechanical switch to turn off its Wi-Fi?
16:06:14intgrAnd speaking of wireless, how come there are so few DAPs with Bluetooth support?
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16:08:34amiconnWhat good would be bluetooth on a dap?
16:08:52amiconnIt's too slow for transferring files and/or hifi audio transmission
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16:13:33bluebrotherit would be good for sucking out the battery ;-)
16:14:10intgrWell, it's much more power-conservative than Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth 2.0 goes up to 2-something Mbit/s
16:14:32amiconn2MBit/s would *just even* be enough for hifi audio
16:15:01amiconnAnd Bluetooth 2.0 ifn't very common yet
16:15:09amiconn*isn't
16:15:12intgr48000 Hz * 16 bits is a mere 96 kilobytes/s
16:16:29intgrOh wait, double that for stereo.
16:16:40intgrSo yeah, it's pretty close to the peak throughput.
16:16:51bluebrother... and multiply it with 8 to get kbit/s
16:17:05B4gderbits at least
16:17:28B4gderand I bet the raw speed they count is not pure payload data
16:17:41*bluebrother hands out the missed s
16:19:03gursikhmight be usefull with the next-gen bluetooth (wimedia bluetooth version)
16:19:56bluebrotheroh, one could of course want to sync the mp3 mobile phone with the mp3 player ;-)
16:20:17gursikhor transfer data from laptop, etc.
16:20:27intgrBut listening to music with hard drive in one pocket and MP3 player in the other would be kind of neat.
16:20:46bluebrotherare there hard drives with only bluetooth attached available?
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16:21:43B4gderbluebrother: psp3 ;-)
16:22:41bluebrotheranyway, there is always this tiny thing with the difference between technically possible and feasible
16:22:52bluebrother(or useful)
16:23:50aliaskI can think of nowhere more likely than an open source project for that sort of thing to appear :P
16:24:17B4gderhehe
16:24:25B4gder"rubbish" as they say
16:24:34bluebrotherthe beautiness of open source ;-)
16:24:44intgraliask: The masters of "optional feature" creep. :)
16:25:11aliaskI think rockbox actually manages pretty well in terms of feature creep.
16:25:49intgrI wouldn't know, I haven't even attempted compiling it yet for my chip. ;)
16:25:50linuxstbIf you exclude plugins...
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16:26:38amiconnRockbox already has way too many features to be fully utilized by a single user
16:27:05markunI was watching the Google TechTalk "the paradox of choice why more is less" the other say
16:27:07aliaskBut the features we have would be used by more than one user.
16:27:18markunrockbox does exactly what this guy is telling us not to do :)
16:27:41linuxstbmarkun: He's suggesting a feature freeze? :)
16:27:42B4gderhehehe
16:27:52markunlinuxstb: feature reduction :)
16:28:03bluebrotherremove doom *g*
16:28:11B4gderyou should watch that video with the subversion guys (on google) talking about identifying bad persons in open source projects
16:28:23bluebrotheronly problem is that doom is a plugin and not a feature ;-)
16:28:27B4gdersince they mention a lot of stuff projects should do, and we do many of them...
16:28:34markunB4gder: I did and couldn't help thinking about Dongs :)
16:28:34*linuxstb would be happy with FLAC playback only, and no DSP effects or crossfade - a very simple playback engine...
16:28:37*amiconn could name several core features which could be removed in an instant based on his own usage patterns
16:28:41B4gdermarkun: haha
16:29:01markunalso about some other people of which I don't remember the nicks
16:29:11bluebrotherbad persons in projects? In what terms bad?
16:29:19intgrWell, what are the most obscure (core) features in Rockbox?
16:29:26B4gderbluebrother: in the terms we all would agree on ;-)
16:29:40B4gderits a good talk
16:29:40linuxstbintgr: What do you mean by obscure? Least-used?
16:29:45intgrlinuxstb: Yeah.
16:29:55bluebrotherwhere is it available? Google video?
16:30:00intgrhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6127548813950043200&q=the+paradox+of+choice+why+more+is+less
16:30:48B4gderhttp://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645
16:30:51linuxstbintgr: I'm not sure how we could tell that.
16:31:11markuna negative docid..
16:31:18linuxstbUnless we make a "big brother build" which logged usage
16:31:22B4gder~55 minutes video
16:31:36amiconnMy obsolete features list: crossfade, crossfeed, eq, most database features (those that go beyond simple artist/album/track browsing), replaygain, theme support
16:31:40intgrlinuxstb: Well, just wondering.
16:31:52amiconnThat list isn't complete, just what came to mind within a minute
16:31:53intgramiconn: I find all of those pretty useful.
16:32:04intgrAt least on desktop computers.
16:32:12markun"The Graphing Calculator Story" is also a nice talk
16:32:22markunabout a guy working at Apple for a long time after he got fired
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16:32:58intgrWorking for Apple after he got fired working for whom?
16:33:13cropamiconn: to continue the list: loadable icons and icons as such...
16:33:13markunamiconn: why did replaygain become obsolete?
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16:34:03intgrThemes per se aren't necessary, but I prefer the freedom to choose over a bad enforced theme.
16:34:04bluebrotherReplayGain is one of my favorite feature :o
16:34:12markunmine too
16:34:35markunso is crossfeed
16:34:42intgrYeah, ReplayGain is more necessary than on desktops, since it is not always convenient to go after the volume button with each changing track.
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16:35:10bluebrotherreplaygain is quite convenient on the desktop too.
16:35:11aliaskI don't quite understand, how do you get your music at all different volumes? I get most of my music from... uh... various sources, and I've never even considered replaygain.
16:35:37bluebrotherI get my music from the original CDs, and they are recorded at quite different levels
16:35:50markunyes, mine too
16:35:58badsheepyspecially older ones i find
16:36:01markunkraftwerk vs aphex twin
16:36:04intgrRecent CDs are usually tuned to the max, since "louder is better, who cares about clipped samples"
16:39:24amiconnmarkun: replaygain didn't become obsolete in general; this is a list of which features *I* deem obsolete
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16:39:37amiconnAnd I have no use fro replaygain...
16:39:46caduhello guys, can't do bookmarking on gigabeat
16:39:53cadusimply doesn't shows stuff on bookmarking
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16:50:29markuncadu: let me try
16:52:25markuncadu: I just created a bookmark, stopped playback, loaded the bookmark and continued playing
16:52:29markunwhat's not working for you?
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16:52:47caduhow/where did you do it ?
16:52:52caduwhat button or what menu ?
16:53:09markuncadu: long SELECT
16:53:15markunin the WPS
16:53:26markunthen "bookmarks"
16:53:29cadui'm on the gigabeat
16:53:40markunme too
16:53:54caduBookmarks > Create Bookmark, nothing happens
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16:54:13markunI don't know what's wrong then
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16:54:36markunand can you go back?
16:55:19caduyeah
16:55:25markundid it work before?
16:55:38cadupressing SELECT or RIGHT on Create Bookmark seems to have no effect
16:55:40cadunever worked
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16:55:58amiconnAre you playing from file tree or the database?
16:56:28cadui always use the database
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16:56:36amiconnmarkun?
16:56:42markunI always use the file tree :)
16:56:50*amiconn thinks bookmarks are only working when playing from file tree
16:56:56caduhmmmm
16:56:58cadulemme check
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16:57:23cadui always use the database coz my files are well tagged, so it's quicker to find bands/albums using it
16:57:46markunmy files are well tagged too, but I also have a good directory structure
16:58:02cadume too :) it's quick too
16:58:17cadubut to create a quick playlist, i find the database the best feature out there :)
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16:58:35caduand it's already loaded to RAM, so it's quicker too ;)
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16:58:51markunI have dircache on so it's quick too
16:58:56desowinyou can load dircache ...
16:59:13cadui know :)
16:59:28markunanyway, does it work from the file tree?
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17:00
17:00:04DjHalfTonwhats up everyone
17:00:19cadumarkun: worked :)
17:00:34DjHalfTonsoo.. i have a quick question
17:00:48cadumarkun: thanks
17:00:53DjHalfToni have an alpine stereo in my car.. which works with the IPOD
17:01:02caduwhy it doesn't works thru database ......? :'(
17:01:28DjHalfTonwill it work with rockbox?
17:02:14caduDjHalfTon: what you mean, you can control iPod with your stereo or it's just connected (audio out) to your stereo and you control it using the ipod itself ?
17:02:15amiconncadu: Because nobody came up with a clever way to store the databased-created playlist along with the bookmark
17:02:20bluebrothersic ... what do you think about FS #7106?
17:02:35*amiconn wonders how this works for resume
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17:02:52caduamiconn: a bookmark also saves the playlist it was on ?!
17:03:01DjHalfTonstereo controls IPOD sorry CADU
17:03:04intgr<markun> rockbox does exactly what this guy is telling us not to do :)
17:03:05*amiconn hopes for hardeep and/or Lear to show up and shed some light onto the issue
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17:03:31intgrActually, the talk speaks about different variations of the same option competing, not about completely different features (yes/no decisions)
17:03:37DjHalfToni can search ipod directly thru stereo
17:03:41DjHalfTonload playlists
17:03:44DjHalfTonsee song names
17:03:50caduintgr: what? database is evil ?
17:03:54intgrmarkun: So I think that speech in particular is not applicable in our situation
17:03:57amiconncadu: Bookmarks store the exact playback state, i.e. the playlist and the position within it. Think of bookmarks as saved resume positions
17:04:14intgrcadu: Huh? I was responding to markun's comment half an hour ago.
17:04:21caduoh, sorry :)
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17:07:03intgrThe choice of audio formats is the only relevant one, and there are very good reasons to have that choice.
17:07:34linuxstbDjHalfTon: No, that won't work with Rockbox.
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17:13:54aliaskI'm trying to compile ipodpatcher on linux, but it looks like I'm missing something BLKSSZGET is not defined anywhere.
17:15:35linuxstbWhich Linux?
17:15:46aliaskDebian
17:16:25linuxstbDo you have a file /usr/include/sys/mount.h ?
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17:17:10aliaskYep, and BLKSSZGET is defined in there.
17:17:27linuxstbThen that's odd...
17:18:26aliaskCan I just replace it with a static define?
17:19:26linuxstbWhat do you mean? define it how?
17:20:10aliaskLike 512
17:20:40aliaskOr does that make no sense in that context.
17:21:14linuxstbYou'll need to edit the part of the code that uses the define - just delete the call to that ioctl and hard-code the value to 512 if you know that's your ipod's sector size.
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17:21:50aliaskIt's a 4g of some description, would 512 be right?
17:21:57bluebrothermaybe that file isn't part of the default include search path?
17:22:27 Quit DjHalfTon ()
17:22:28linuxstbaliask: Yes - only (some) video ipods have 2048 byte sectors.
17:22:58linuxstbbluebrother: ipodpatcher does #include <sys/mount.h> so I can't understand why it's not being included correctly...
17:23:13linuxstbIf /usr/include wasn't in the search path, everything would break.
17:23:14bluebrotherhmm.
17:23:29aliaskAnd all the other defines work, just not that one.
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17:23:41bluebrotherthat makes it really strange, indeed.
17:24:40linuxstbaliask: BTW, you could just download the pre-build binary - assuming you're on x86 or amd64...
17:24:54linuxstb^pre-built
17:25:13aliaskI would, but I'm trying to make a build that will read a dump of the hdd rather than the hdd itself
17:25:35linuxstbAh, so it's a runtime error you're talking about?
17:25:49aliaskNo, it won't compile.
17:25:53bluebrotherhuh? Can't you just pass ipodpatcher the "device" file?
17:26:07linuxstbbluebrother: You can - I did lots of testing that way.
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17:26:18aliaskOh... how?
17:26:38linuxstbYou'll need to dump the whole disk, not just the firmware partition though...
17:26:45aliaskAlready done.
17:27:03linuxstbThen just use the filename instead of the device name. e.g. ipodpatcher mydump.bin
17:27:30aliask"File too large" :)
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17:28:05linuxstbAh, OK... I added large file support to sansapatcher - I should backport it to ipodpatcher...
17:28:28bluebrotherwhat's the difference in large file support?
17:28:30linuxstbOn the sansa, the firmware partition is at the end of the disk - so most of the time further than 4GB in...
17:28:30aliaskCan I just trim the end of the file?
17:28:33bluebrothersetting a flag?
17:29:11linuxstbbluebrother: I can't remember the details, but it's trivial.
17:29:38linuxstbaliask: If you want to wait a few minutes, I'll try adding large-file support to ipodpatcher and you can test for me...
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17:29:57aliaskSure
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17:35:24bluebrotherOT: does somebody know a command to split up a pdf file into its pages (as pdf as well)?
17:35:36markunSlasheri: accessing the hdd (like starting a song) while dircache is scanning in the background make rockbox very unresponsive on my Gigabeat. Anything we could do about it?
17:36:09markunbluebrother: pdftk
17:36:10desowinbluebrother: pdf from jpgs or normal pdf ?
17:36:26linuxstbaliask: OK, I think I'm done... Do you want a binary or a patch?
17:36:53markunbluebrother: I used it to cut some pages out of the Gigabeat manual for example. It can also do rotating and some other nice things.
17:37:13bluebrothermarkun: thanks, just looking at the man page.
17:37:19bluebrotherjust needed the name to look for ;-)
17:37:29aliasklinuxstb: patch will be fine
17:37:35markunbluebrother: http://www.pdfhacks.com/pdftk/
17:37:39markunok
17:38:26linuxstbaliask: http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/ipodpatcher-largefile.diff
17:40:09aliasklinuxstb: Still says the file is too large.
17:41:57linuxstbaliask: Out of curiousity, does sansapatcher give the same error? It won't modify the file, just tell you it's not an E200 and abort.
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17:43:05linuxstbBut to answer your earlier question, yes - you can just extract the first 50MB or so of the image - that's all ipodpatcher will modify on the 4g.
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17:45:25aliasklinuxstb: Can't build sansapatcher either (different problem) are there any binaries I could use?
17:46:30linuxstbhttp://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/e200/
17:47:39aliaskYep, it says it's too large also - the file is almost 30gb.
17:49:16linuxstbThat's odd... sansapatcher is known to work on 8GB files.
17:49:47linuxstbOr rather, to be able to seek by 8GB in a disk device....
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20:09:22AceNik__uys a quick questiion everytime we make a build & do make , n numerous files are created , do we need to preserve these files or delete them , cause the "make zip" gives us the build right ?, so should i presrerve these or delete
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20:11:24GodEater_AceNik__: after you've moved the zip somewhere safe, do a "make clean" to get rid of those files
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20:11:52AceNik__cant i just delete the files
20:12:01amiconnIf you intend to make another build later, it's recommended to keep the files
20:12:31amiconn'make' is clever and only remakes those intermediate files which depend on changed source files -> faster build
20:12:44AceNik__my source is curently patched
20:12:53amiconnIf you delete the intermediates, they all have to be recreated in the next build
20:14:02AceNik__so please suggest what should i do , i try to maintain 2 source copies both , but always happen to modify the source to match svn agian , can i maintain a patched version too
20:14:15amiconnWhy does that matter?
20:14:27*amiconn 's sources are almost never 100% svn
20:14:44amiconnYou can just 'svn up' no matter whether your sources are patched
20:15:11*amiconn only keeps a single source tree most of the time, doing all his modifications there
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20:15:34AceNik__what does make clean do , does it delete files not needed int he build directory or what should i do , if i want to compile faster or build faster next tiem
20:15:45amiconnJust keep the files around
20:16:09amiconnThe next 'make' will replace those which need replacing, and reuse the others
20:16:25AceNik__oh k cool thanks
20:18:24amiconnIf you really want to get rid of the files 'make clean' will do that
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20:18:51amiconnYou can also wipe the whole build directory, but then you will have to configure again for the next build
20:18:54AceNik__thanks
20:19:28amiconn('make clean' keeps 'Makefile' and 'autoconf.h')
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20:22:40*bluebrother comes back and notices loads of misplaced spaces in this channel :o
20:22:42spiorfi just turned on my ipod nano, ant the whole screen is white, except for the icon, which are shown correctly
20:23:46spiorfand no, i don't have white text on white background
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20:24:10amiconnbluebrother?
20:24:15bluebrotheryup
20:25:29amiconnmisplaced spaces?
20:25:51bluebrotheryes −− a space in front of a comma makes text hard(er) to read ;-)
20:25:58amiconnAh, those
20:26:08*amiconn wonders where there are lots of those
20:26:30amiconnA few ones, yes...
20:26:37amiconn...and not mine :)
20:26:54bluebrotherno, not yours ;-)
20:26:56Rincewindbetter than no commas at all...
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20:27:19bluebrotherdepends on ... if the commas are set wrong I vote for no commas
20:27:47Rincewindamiconn: do you have a little time to look at my runtime scaling patch?
20:27:56Rincewindhttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7092
20:28:49RincewindI would like to know if you (and others) think that it can be included and if it would cause trouble on archos or not
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20:33:19*amiconn thinks the whole powermanagement needs to be redone
20:34:07Rincewindredoing the whole thing is way above my head...
20:34:42AceNik___Aminconn: one more question suppose i got multiple patches in my build & can any of them go out of sync ? if no since the svn might update around them, then if i need to produce a patch from my diff for a particular patch how do i do that
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20:39:46*bluebrother doesn't understand this worm question
20:39:55bluebrotherevery patch can get out of sync ...
20:41:15RincewindAceNik___: if you do a 'svn up' and a patch is out of sync, you see a smal 'C' (conflict) in front of the name of the file that got out of sync
20:41:17*bluebrother suggests AceNik__ trying the tab key
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20:43:37RincewindAceNik___: if you have a conflict you can resolve it (that means changing the code yourself) or start all over again with a 'svn revert -R ./'
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20:45:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:45:44AceNik___amiconn buddy did u get my previous question
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22:10:15Nico_Pthe "How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People" techtalk is very interesting :)
22:11:04*Bagder agrees
22:12:18*markun too
22:12:18Nico_Palso about what amiconn said earlier about features he deemed obsolete... he forgot cuesheets :)
22:15:26amiconnYes. I said this list isn't complete. I also made clear that this is my personal list of unneeded features, not that these features should be removed
22:15:28BagderI think we benefit a great deal by the huge variety of people and opinions that we have in the project
22:17:05amiconnTo me, cuesheets are such an odd concept that I didn't even think of them
22:17:26amiconnBut then, since the feature is there, I made it work on hwcodec, even though I'll never actually use it...
22:18:11*amiconn thinks that features should work properly on as many targets as possible if they're there
22:18:37pixelmasame with the scrobbler log...
22:18:38Bagderindeed
22:18:53amiconnYes, and the scrobbler log does *not* work properly
22:19:22pixelmathat's what I meant
22:19:24amiconnFrom what I hear, it doesn't even work properly on swcodec yet, and so I made no effort to make it work properly on hwcodec either
22:19:57amiconnI also have no real idea how to test it, other than looking at the logfile(s)
22:20:45amiconnOn hwcodec, most of the time simply nothing is written to the log, no matter how many tracks/albums one is listening to
22:21:25pixelmaexcept once in a while it magically appears (even for a few folders)
22:21:42amiconnBut all of a sudden it happens that a few tracks get logged, or even a few albums
22:22:02amiconnThe condition when this happens is a mystery...
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22:32:29preglowamiconn: "obsolete" kind of implies you used them at some point, and i suspect you've never used many of the features in that list ;)
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22:34:45preglowhmm, i don't use any of those myself either
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22:36:50preglowand i've coded two of them, heh
22:37:10Nico_Ppreglow: which ones ?
22:37:16pregloweq and crossfeed
22:37:46Nico_Pok
22:40:28pixelmafor some reason my impression of the sound crossfeed produces (on M5) is that the higher mid frequencies get lost - could that be?
22:43:06preglowhmm, not as a whole, no
22:43:21preglowsome (narrow) freq ranges will be somewhat attenuated due to the distance simulation
22:43:23amiconnTo me, crossfeed just makes the sound less precise. With speakers (I know that's not the intended use) it also increases bass
22:43:27preglowbut that's quite natural
22:43:37preglowpixelma: but anyway, you're supposed to tweak it :)
22:43:58amiconnThat's all - I don't hear any other effect
22:44:07markunamiconn: I think it's quite logical that it increases bass
22:44:14preglowindeed, but you can tweak that away
22:44:32pixelmapreglow: what should I tweak?
22:44:52preglowpixelma: not easy to say, the effect varies from person to person
22:45:15preglowthe higher mid freqs shouldn't _really_ be lost, it might just sound like it
22:45:34preglowamiconn: tried it with recordings that will benefit from it, though?
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22:45:41pixelmawell, easier to just switch it off :P
22:45:44preglowamiconn: crossfeed quite naturally narrows the stereo field down, it's the intended effect
22:45:47preglowpixelma: indeed
22:45:57preglowi never use it myself, unless listening to 60s/70s records
22:46:03preglowwhich isn't often these days
22:46:16amiconnI could narrow the stereo field with stereo width if desired.
22:46:28amiconnI usually do quite the opposite though
22:46:38preglowamiconn: not the same thing when you're dealing with hardpanned music
22:46:43amiconnStereo width has the advantage that it doesn't reduce sound precision
22:47:06preglowfor you, perhaps
22:47:20preglowproblem with crossfeed is it depends on psychoacoustics
22:47:28preglowso not very easy to discuss, heh
22:47:53amiconnprobably
22:48:02pixelmamaybe the reduced precision is where my impression comes from
22:48:09amiconnI don't have any 60s recordings as I don't like the music of that time
22:48:29preglowi've got a bunch of old jethro tull records that benefit from it
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22:48:31preglowold beatles
22:48:32preglowold jazz
22:48:52preglowbut no, not much
22:49:45amiconnBut if you mean stuff that's panned 100% left or right - I don't see the problem with that
22:49:57preglowit's irritating to listen to
22:49:58preglowreally
22:50:00amiconnAll the 4 channel amiga mods do that...
22:50:10preglowindeed, and they're a pain in the ass to listen to on headphones
22:50:13*amiconn doesn't find that irritating at all
22:50:21preglowthen you don't need crossfeed :)
22:50:26Soapwhy would you use crossfeed with 60's records?
22:50:37preglowSoap: because many instruments are hardpanned to one of the channels
22:50:48preglowSoap: which gives a very weird stereo image with headphones
22:50:58Soapahh, for "aesthetics", not artistic intent?
22:51:33preglowit's really just to make nicer sound if you don't like hard panning
22:51:45Soapwhen you said 60's, I was just thinking about how you used to be able to buy records mastered for headphone listening, now all assume speakers.
22:51:54preglowah, did you know
22:52:01preglownever encountered that
22:52:41Soapyou used to be able to get stereophonic and binaural pressings of some albums.
22:52:53preglowahh, yeah, binaural releases i've heard about
22:53:04markunSoap: and did you like the sound?
22:53:13Soapwhich sound?
22:53:20preglowbinaural processing in rockbox might happen in the future
22:53:34markunSoap: of a binaural recording using headphones
22:54:06Soapmarkun: yes
22:54:22SoapI will send you a plaster model of my head for the modeling preglow.
22:54:34preglowyou could save time and just send the head
22:54:43*markun has a deja-vu
22:54:44preglowi'll post it back to your body when finished with it
22:55:26Soapnow here is where I am getting confused (and reading as we speak) - I thought crossfeed was the larger part of binaural processing...
22:55:39preglowkind of
22:55:51preglowcrossfeed is binaural processing in a way, but with really cheap filters
22:56:04preglowin an ideal world, the dap would measure your heads frequency response and use that
22:56:11preglowwe don't do that for obvious reasons :>
22:57:58markunand hopefully we can come up with something to simulate 2 speakers in the back as well
22:59:17SoapHow CPU intensive will that be? Or is the CPU cost pretty directly related to the filter quality?
22:59:50preglowit is, but hrtf (head-related transfer function) filters aren't really that long
22:59:54preglowbut still long enough to be costly
23:00
23:00:07preglowand you can't really compromise on the quality either, they need to be full length
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23:58:18NHealpratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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23:58:26***Server message 505: 'logbot_ :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
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23:58:32***Server message 505: 'logbot_ :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
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23:58:34***Server message 505: 'logbot_ :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
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23:58:49NJoinender` [0] (i=krneki@84.255.206.8)
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23:58:52***Server message 505: 'logbot_ :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
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23:58:54***Server message 505: 'logbot_ :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
23:58:54 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@84.177.64.99)
23:58:56***Server message 505: 'logbot_ :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
23:58:56 Join z35 [0] (n=z@74.226.228.239)
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23:59:00***Server message 505: 'logbot_ :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'

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