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#rockbox log for 2007-05-10

00:00:11jhMikeSLlorean: I should ask, in what manner? It makes the scrollwheel crisper though it will need tweaking. I don't think polling GPIO ports will load the CPU very much though.
00:01:07LloreanjhMikeS: I'm not really sure. The main "problem" I have with the wheel wouldn't be fixed by this anyway.
00:01:38jhMikeSwhat's that?
00:02:17LloreanJust the fact that when the UI gets sluggish, the wheel queues up a bunch of events, so you end up having the volume jump +20 or something.
00:02:25LloreanI'm not even sure if that's still around
00:02:31LloreanI haven't booted up my Sansa in a while.
00:04:02 Join ctaf [0] (n=ctaf@ram94-6-82-242-23-70.fbx.proxad.net)
00:04:14 Part ctaf
00:04:35bluebrotherH10_007quick, check this out: http://pastebin.ca/479788
00:04:51bluebrotherI hope it's a bit more descriptive ;-)
00:05:06jhMikeSLlorean: It actually seems better and I fixed a priority inversion in the i2c driver
00:05:43 Join case__ [0] (n=case@ivr94-4-82-227-121-115.fbx.proxad.net)
00:06:22LloreanIt's more that I'm used to the iPod than anything else, the Sansa has discrete wheel movements so it makes sense that they aren't dropped like they are on the iPod.
00:06:32H10_007quickOk, I think I get it
00:07:24jhMikeSfrom what I can see, I don't think that level of filtering makes sense here as on iPod then
00:07:40case__hi. i've a Sansa e260 for 12 hours and playing with rockbox since then... will lurk around for a while :)
00:08:49LloreanjhMikeS: It definitely does not. A user here can move 4 clicks, and even if it doesn't happen immediately, they should expect 4 actions to take place.
00:10:37jhMikeSthat's what I'm aiming for but I seem to be getting two jumps per click for some reason :\ will figure it out.
00:14:15LloreanThat's because each click is two actions
00:14:31LloreanThere's basically a half-click and a full click.
00:14:48LloreanSomeone fixed that at some point with the old wheel driver, if I recall.
00:15:28 Quit Acky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:15:42Bawitdabastill no rockbox for iPod 80gb? :(
00:15:55LloreanBawitdaba: You can tell that from the front page of the site, yes.
00:15:57*Bawitdaba wants to be first tester
00:16:19H10_007quickbluebrother: http://pastebin.ca/479809 am I right at the bottom?
00:16:47LloreanBawitdaba: There is every likelihood that the only testers will be programmers working on it until there is either a patch in flyspray, or it's in SVN, so you can watch either of those rather than repeatedly asking about it.
00:17:55 Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]")
00:19:20bluebrotherH10_007quick, yes, get_new_value() should return you the new value you want to add to your history. In your case this most would be adc_scan I guess
00:19:43H10_007quickok
00:19:52case__Is it a normal behaviour that i can't connect my Sansa with the USB cable when using rockbox?
00:20:17case__(it gave me device errors in syslog)
00:20:18bluebrotherI haven't followed the exact code, so this is just a way to do it
00:20:31bluebrothercase__, rockbox doesn't handle usb yet.
00:20:43Lloreancase__: Turn off your Sansa, and plug in the cable while it's turned off
00:20:46case__ok
00:20:49bluebrotherafaik on the sansa we can't simply reboot into some disk mode like on the ipods
00:21:05case__Llorean, yes i've noticed i can use the default firmware that way
00:21:16Lloreanbluebrother: We kinda can, actually
00:21:31Lloreanbluebrother: If someone would just tell Rockbox to shutdown upon USB insertion, it'd be remarkably similar to the iPod disk mode.
00:21:32bluebrotherwe can? Do we do it too?
00:21:39LloreanWe do not do it.
00:21:46bluebrotherah, so we don't do :)
00:21:53LloreanWe can, but don't. =/
00:22:21bluebrotherwell, then someone program it! Do it now and make me proud of Rockbox! *g*
00:22:32LloreanThe original firmware behaves remarkably like iPod disk mode under the right cirumstances, so if Rockbox just shutdown upon USB insert, as long as the cable stayed in, it'd restart into the OF, go into USB mode. On disconnect, it shuts down and restarts into Rockbox again.
00:22:55LloreanEverything's in place except shutdown upon USB insert, and I'm not sure if that's being held up by anything, or if maybe there's a reason it's not possible and I don't know of it.
00:23:06case__how hard is it to set up a developpement environement for rockbox? (from a c/unix coder with no embeded devices / cross compiling experience)
00:23:07bluebrotheroh, that sounds nice. Do we miss the knowledge to do the proper reboot or is it simply not done yet?
00:23:28bluebrothercase__, if you use the script for building the cross compilers it isn't hard at all
00:23:40LloreanThe device automatically powers up with a USB cable connected, so I don't think a reboot would be necessary, just a shutdown.
00:23:41bluebrothercheckout svn and run tools/rbdev.sh
00:23:47case__great
00:24:21bluebrotherscrapt the filename, it's tools/rockboxdev.sh
00:25:01chrisjs169|brbI seem to be stuck...if I use binutils 2.17-3, I get "unrecognized option '−−hash-style=gnu'". Using the latest build from CVS segfaults...
00:25:15LloreanIsn't 2.16 the recommended version?
00:25:20bluebrotherit is
00:25:28case__about the USB support, is it planned or not at all ?
00:25:38Lloreancase__: Planned, but possibly very hard to do.
00:25:43case__the fallback to the default firmware is quite anoying there, in fact.
00:25:44peturcase__: check out http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DocsIndex#For_Developers
00:25:44bluebrothera usb stack for Rockbox is a planned project for GSoC
00:25:52case__thanks
00:27:07Nico_Plinuxstb_: could the wpsbuild script copy the backdrop and progressbar bitmaps to the tar too ?
00:27:24Nico_Pand avoid creating the dir ?
00:28:05case__Llorean, again, i have no embended devices experience, but a USB stack seems to be a very common thing these days, no? how can it be so difficult to do/port ?
00:28:41Lloreancase__: Writing drivers for unknown hardware is one of the key difficulties.
00:28:55case__sure
00:29:02LloreanWe have a serious shortage on hardware documentation for the PortalPlayer based devices.
00:29:21LloreanWe also haven't needed a USB stack until recently
00:29:41LloreanBut there will (hopefully) be one by the end of the summer, meaning that for the devices we do have a reasonable likelihood of drivers for, there should be hope
00:30:08bluebrotheranother problem with embedded programming is that you are usually low on cpu power and memory which might complicate things
00:30:17case__i see
00:30:19bluebrotherdepending on what you want to do ;-)
00:30:40case__anyone regreating the good old time of RS-232? ;)
00:30:40bluebrotherbut the bigger issue is the lack of documentation of the hardware
00:30:53Lloreancase__: Most of our other hardware has a USB-ATA bridge, if I understand, meaning that we didn't need an actual USB stack.
00:30:57bluebrotherrs232 is still used in embedded devices :)
00:30:59chrisjs169|brbSince this computer is used as a build server for Rockbox, does anyone have any suggestions for fixing binutils/ld so that I can get it compiling again?
00:31:06H10_007quicklatter
00:31:08 Quit H10_007quick ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030916]")
00:31:30case__ya sure, at the end of this world, rs232 will overcome :)
00:31:51*petur points out that rs232 also required protocols to communicate
00:32:11 Quit olle_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:32:14bluebrotherrs232 is still really nice for communicating between devices, and most microcontrollers have one or more uart ports in hardware
00:32:34 Join _alexaway_ [0] (n=uneverkn@static220-21.adsl.no)
00:32:38_alexaway_hi
00:33:17chrisjs169|brb_alexaway_: hi
00:33:33_alexaway_is there no way to play divx on sensa?
00:33:34_alexaway_:\
00:33:37bluebrotherno
00:33:45bluebrothermpegplayer can do mpeg2, that's all
00:33:52 Quit toffe82 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:34:01_alexaway_slash kill sansa :P
00:34:22case___alexaway_, mencoder is your friend :)
00:34:23*Llorean wonders why the obsession with DivX/XViD among people
00:34:34bluebrotherbut as you need to transcode to the screen resolution anyway (for performance reasons) there is no deal lin transcoding to mpeg anyway
00:34:36_alexaway_tv series lee-qid
00:34:40LloreanIf people were going to be unreasonable about which codec they used, they might as well request H.264 and go for the gold.
00:34:41_alexaway_Llorean
00:34:51Llorean_alexaway_: You'd have to convert for screen size anyway
00:35:00 Quit idnar (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:35:12case__i want ascii art rendering for my sansa! >_<
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00:35:18bluebrotherLlorean, I think most people will expect real-time scaling like desktop pcs can do ...
00:35:27bluebrothercase__: libcaca :D
00:35:35Lloreanlibcaca would fill me with great joy
00:35:36bluebrotherwould be fun, indeed.
00:35:43_alexaway_u recommand any mpeg2 converters?
00:35:54*bluebrother recently run mplayer -vo caca. Funny
00:35:59Lloreanffmpeg (using WinFF as a front end), mencoder, or VLC
00:36:08bluebrotherbeat me
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00:40:43 Quit Acksaw ("www.acksaw.com")
00:40:46case__i'm sure asking if *** image files are supported is the fastest way to be RTFMised, so i'll only ask "where is the list of supported file format?"
00:40:54case__(please don't answer "in the manual")
00:41:25peturbmp and jpg
00:41:40_alexaway_whats the screen size on a e200 series sansa?
00:41:48peturthere's a patch on the tracker for gif iirc
00:42:14case__176*224 ?
00:42:18_alexaway_ta
00:42:19_alexaway_<3
00:43:05peturcase__: the jpg viewer currently only handles jpg (funny that), it› not a real multi-format image viewer yet
00:43:18 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:43:18case__ok thanks
00:44:59_alexaway_after this converting is done im goin to bed :P
00:45:00scorchejhMikeS: around?
00:45:11jhMikeSLlorean: it's just the old code put into an IRQ
00:45:49jhMikeSscorche: what's up?
00:45:57scorchejhMikeS: can you please not top-post and only quote relevant info in the Dev-ML?
00:45:59HellDragongenuine
00:46:38scorchequoting 3 prior mails each time gets old =/
00:46:43LloreanjhMikeS: Odd, then it shouldn't be doing two actions... unless it never got fixed. I know there was a patch, maybe it was never committed.
00:46:52jhMikeSscorche: sure. I was wondering what was appropriate. Guess now I know :)
00:47:25scorchejhMikeS: if you search the archives, you will find our guidelines
00:47:30jhMikeSLlorean: I only see full clicks between each value and they're pretty widely spaced
00:47:51LloreanDunno
00:47:57jhMikeSscorche: I never read squat! :P I just wait for someone to tell me to quit it.
00:48:02scorcheinfact....http://www.rockbox.org/mail/etiquette.html
00:48:07_alexaway_hmm, why did winff just stop at 80mb?
00:48:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:48:58Llorean_alexaway_: Play the file, and see how long it is.
00:49:02_alexaway_4mins
00:49:03_alexaway_.__.
00:49:04_alexaway_:P
00:49:17LloreanMaybe you bumped the Q key. :-P
00:49:22_alexaway_prob.
00:51:20*bluebrother will never understand why anybody would want to top-post at all
00:51:48_alexaway_should i select mpeg 2 or mpeg 2 video?
00:51:50_alexaway_:P
00:52:58jhMikeSwell, if OE is giving me trouble there I'll try to get it to behave itself
00:53:14Llorean_alexaway_: The included presets won't work. Download the ones from the mpeg player page on the wiki
00:53:38_alexaway_link to the wiki?
00:53:39_alexaway_:P
00:54:08peturrtfw
00:54:22 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
00:54:22bluebrotherbtw, was that strange attachment format intended?
00:54:26 Join Alonea [0] (n=chatzill@24-117-195-16.cpe.cableone.net)
00:55:39jhMikeSso, basically it means to post your followups as a reply to your own message so it's one level deeper instead...ok
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00:57:49jhMikeShmmm...posting wheel events without repeat flags seems the key. I really don't know what the logic is for having it there since wheels don't repeat.
00:59:13LloreanOn the iPod it's to keep you from scrolling past the top/bottom I believe
00:59:43scorchejhMikeS: for an example, see how Linus, badger, and i do it in our mails
01:00
01:00:35jhMikeSLlorean: ah...yeah, that'll happen here
01:01:08LloreanNot so bad here, though
01:01:12LloreanSince the wheel is discrete, unlike the ipod wheel
01:01:54jhMikeSit still moves pretty darn fast and you could fly right by things
01:02:33Aloneahey, I think I used to press menu or power when I turn my gigabeat back on and it would resume the song where I left it when I turned it off. Its not doing it anymore. Also, it randomly crashes now. Screen goes clear, but light is still on, and I have to use the battery switch to turn it off. Its been doing this for a week or so now
01:03:05jhMikeSThere might be simplistic solution though
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01:10:03toffe82Alonea: there was some change on the button mapping a week ago
01:11:10Aloneatoffe82: ok. well, I pressed the A button and all that does is load the first song in the folder instead of continuing the song from where it was. So is A supposed to be the new button and its messed up or is it something else?
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01:38:02jhMikeSok, it's a patch then...works like a charm :)
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01:47:41kkurbjunalonea, when your player crashes is it durring shutdown?
01:48:46 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:48:48Aloneakkurbjun: no. it only does it when music is playing, usually after 5-10 minutes of play. battery off, then on, then I can turn it on again and it usually doesn't crash so fast until the next time I turn it on
01:49:56Aloneai am going to update my player and see if it helps
01:50:11kkurbjunhmm, update it to the latest gigabeat software?
01:50:32Aloneayeah, though I had this problem before the 30th, and updating then didn't fix it. Might be fixed now
01:51:20AloneaI would of updated again sooner, but I have been a bit of the busy side and just now remember
01:52:08AloneaI was going to yesterday, but then you guys were discussing all of those problems so I didn't
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02:00
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02:48:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:00
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03:02:49saratogais there some good way to search two c files and see if they call any functions in each other?
03:03:11saratogasplitting out the WMA code in ffmpeg is fast turning into a nightmare
03:03:35linuxstbsaratoga: I know - I've been there...
03:04:04linuxstbI think my advice would be to not expect to be able to do it in a few hours....
03:05:26saratogahaha
03:05:34saratogano i no longer expect that
03:05:57saratogathe maddening thing is I got the old WMA code working great with a front end for dumping to WAV
03:06:08saratogabut the last years changes move almost everything
03:06:16linuxstbYes, I know.
03:06:18saratoganew headers, contents of files shuffled, random calls, etc
03:06:39linuxstbI've tried to do what you've doing, and got nowhere...
03:06:54saratogait seems like there must be some util that could build up a call graph
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03:08:58linuxstbAnother approach would be to treat ffmpeg as a reference, and implement a "wma2wav" program yourself. i.e. start by writing an ASF parser, then add the wma decoding, taking bits from ffmpeg as and when you can.
03:09:32saratogayeah i may end up doing that
03:10:38 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
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03:11:35Llorea1It'd make it harder to stay in sync with ffmpeg, right? But probably easier to manage for us?
03:12:06 Nick Llorea1 is now known as Llorean (n=Llorean@cpe-70-113-91-140.austin.res.rr.com)
03:13:03linuxstbI think you would end up with a better product - i.e. something designed for Rockbox. I'm thinking mainly about the ASF parsing parts of the code. The wma decoder itself is just one or two files in ffmpeg (plus I think some generic library functions), so that part would be easier to keep in sync with ffmpeg.
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03:13:40LloreanSounds like a better plan to me, then.
03:14:43LloreanSays I, knowing nothing of the matter. :)
03:15:09saratogaoriginally i wanted to maintain their code structure for that reason, but maybe its not worth the trouble
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03:20:36linuxstbsaratoga: BTW, have you seen this page (about ARM inline assembler) - http://www.ethernut.de/en/documents/arm-inline-asm.html
03:20:45 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
03:20:50saratogano, i'll read it tonight
03:20:51 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
03:21:04saratogai did find a nice linux app for building c call graphs though
03:21:15saratogagraphical graphs I mean
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03:43:05rdssaratoga: have you tried cscope?
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03:48:02saratogalooks neat but I don't have a unix machine handy
03:48:08saratogawell i do, but no monitor so I'm terminal only
03:48:20saratogawill try it later
03:48:41rdsyou just need a terminal ;-)
03:53:59livingtmwhat do you do when you ipod hangs?
03:54:26livingtm(running rockbox)
03:54:42kkurbjunhold menu and select
03:54:44scorchereset it and attempt to figure out why
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03:54:54livingtmhold and select doesnt do anything.. its HUNG
03:55:09scorchenot hold and select
03:55:11kkurbjunmenu and select, sorry, no hold
03:55:24livingtmyeah menu and select... nothing
03:55:29livingtmhold it for a count of 30
03:55:34scorcheturn the hold switch on and off, then hols menu and select for 30 seconds
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03:56:45livingtmscorche, nothing
03:56:52livingtmstill looking at a hung menu
03:56:58scorcheis it just a blank screen?
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03:57:35livingtmjust the main menu
03:57:38scorchethen you are likely doing something wrong....if menu + select is not working, then something is seriosuly wrong with your ipod, which i doubt
03:57:44livingtm"Files" is highlighted
03:58:12livingtmgot it
03:58:20livingtmmenu + select did it.. two hands :-)
03:58:32rdsDoes anybody know why if my ipod video is off and I connect it through usb, It cycles in turn on and reboot. Connecting it while ipod is on works ok (it goes into disk mode).
03:59:23scorcherds: does this happen with the latest bootloader and build?
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04:00
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04:01:22rdsscorche: it is 070421, and around that date bootloader version (I recall I installed a new bootloader with that version)
04:01:54 Quit deweycooter ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]")
04:02:07scorchetest with the latest bootloader and build, and then come back
04:02:09earHertzrds: your battery is very low
04:02:41earHertzrds: put the hold button on, and plug it. Let the apple firmware boot, then leave it connected art least an hour
04:03:29rdsearHertz: No my battery is not low
04:03:44rdsi'll try with the latest build and bootloader
04:03:56earHertzok
04:05:44rdsBTW, Is there any way to know the currently itnstalled bootloader?
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04:33:27OFfSprngr.
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04:35:56eckwhat filesystems does rockbox (for ipod) support?
04:39:52BHSPitMonkeyfat32.
04:40:39rdswell, I installed build r13367-070510 and the latest bootloader. My ipod video 60GB is off, I connect it to my laptop, It boots into rockbox, shows the main menu and it hangs, i.e, you can't do anything, menu doesn't respond, although it isn't completely hung, the screen brightness goes down after a few seconds and goes up when i touch the clickwheel.
04:40:45 Quit OFfSprngr ("If people stop critisizing they first have to be blind before being mute.")
04:40:51rdsdmesg gives:
04:40:53rdsusb 4-5: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 21
04:40:53rdsusb 4-5: device descriptor read/64, error -71
04:40:53rdsusb 4-5: device descriptor read/64, error -71
04:40:53DBUGEnqueued KICK rds
04:40:53rdsusb 4-5: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 22
04:40:53rdsusb 4-5: device descriptor read/64, error -71
04:40:54***Alert Mode level 1
04:40:54rdsusb 4-5: device descriptor read/64, error -71
04:40:56rdsusb 4-5: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 23
04:40:58rdsusb 4-5: device not accepting address 23, error -71
04:41:00rdsusb 4-5: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 24
04:41:04rdsusb 4-5: device not accepting address 24, error -71
04:41:18scorcheuse pastebin please
04:41:44eckBHSPitMonkey: thanks
04:41:50rdssorry for that
04:42:25BHSPitMonkeyalready up to e13367, eh?
04:42:31BHSPitMonkeys/e/r/
04:45:25rds???
04:48:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:50:55***Alert Mode OFF
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05:14:12ace214I need a little help building if someone can: I'm getting "cp: cannot stat `rockbox-info.txt': No such file or directory" when trying to make zip. I saw the inclusion of this file but I don't know how to create it
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05:18:42ace214hello?
05:18:49ace214maybe im not receiving messages
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05:22:05toffe82_:( big crash, my main computer don't reboot
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05:26:29livingtmhas anyone been able to play video on the ipod video using the mpeg or other plugin that is actually good enough to watch?
05:26:37livingtmI cant seem to get above 3 fps
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05:35:08***Server message 505: 'logbot_ :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
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05:36:44midkaylivingtm: how large is the video?
05:37:17 Quit toffe82 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:37:21livingtm56mb
05:37:32livingtm320x240 300kbps
05:38:02midkayshould work just fine. are you running the latest build?
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05:38:35midkayit won't really be the speed you'd like for smooth video, probably 15-20fps, but it should be way more than 3.
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05:39:53livingtmcant take advantage of the onboard h.264 decoder eh?
05:40:09livingtmsoftware decoding takes a hell of a lot of processor/power im assuming
05:41:39midkaylivingtm: right, we don't (currently..) use the broadcom decoder at all in the 5G.
05:41:48livingtmno specs?
05:41:51midkayso it's not very fast on the 5G, unfortunately.
05:41:53livingtmno time? :-)
05:42:05midkayprimarily the first, i believe. :)
05:42:13scorchedatasheet
05:42:25livingtmbroadcom wont hand that out?
05:42:27scorchethere are pretty much no public docs about it
05:42:35livingtmreally.
05:42:41livingtmi would think they would push it
05:43:20scorchefew companies put out docs for this kind of stuff
05:43:38livingtmits probably a bok mor ethan a paper i assume
05:43:49 Quit earHertz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
05:44:01scorchea paper would work if it has the right info
05:44:13livingtmwhat kind of info?
05:44:23livingtmaddressing and such?
05:44:28livingtma development kit?
05:44:31livingtmhow much is needed
05:45:08livingtmi mean, its not an apple chip, i assume broadcom would want peopl eto be able to use the chip
05:45:15midkaynot too sure.. but some important stuff we don't have..
05:45:34midkayafaik, they only give out the docs to the companies that buy the chips or so...
05:45:38scorchethat is a proprietary chip produced for the ipods afaik
05:45:43digerati1338what is the status of mpegplayer on the e200?
05:45:45midkayapple gets them, because they're using them by the hundreds of thousands.
05:45:53scorchewe could probably get the docs if we paid enough
05:45:55midkaydigerati1338: it works like it should..
05:45:59livingtmbroadcom is marketing them to a lot mor ethan just apple
05:46:14digerati1338are there any pauses or is continuous playback possible?
05:46:22scorcheit is possible that apple doesnt get teh docs either
05:46:27livingtmhm
05:49:19midkaydigerati1338: what do you mean? the file plays, and i believe it rebuffers and plays continually just fine.
05:53:04livingtmany of you guys the devs who would be coding it up if you had the data sheets? :-)
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05:54:21livingtmelephants draeam plays at 24k
05:54:24livingtmer 24 fps
05:54:27livingtmnot bad
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05:56:42midkaylivingtm: are you suggesting something? ;)
05:56:51livingtmnot really
05:57:22livingtmim curious as hell about it, and i know some guys at apple... but if theres NDAs involved and stuff its not likely to happen :-)
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05:57:42scorchelivingtm: we would be thrilled if you could obtain the datasheets, but none of us have had any luck
05:57:46livingtmi would think broadcom would want peopl eto know how to use their stuff
05:58:00scorcheincluding their competitors?
05:58:24livingtmits just the "broadcom 2722 datasheet"?
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05:59:13livingtmmidkay, lets put it this way, I bought my wifes G5 using the manager of electronics manufacturing's employee discount
06:00
06:00:42livingtmbut they are real tight with info, and if there are NDAs involved its not likely to happen
06:02:04midkayi see..
06:02:45livingtmi dunno if i can get anything but its worth a shot :-)
06:03:06scorchein the past, we have signed NDAs allowing us to use it for rockbox related things and only a few core devs have had access to it
06:03:50livingtmwhat kind of info is on the datasheets anyhow? IO addressing and stuff?
06:04:34livingtmi dont know how chips like that work.. is there software on board?
06:04:41scorchehttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/Datasheets
06:05:23midkayhe means http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DataSheets
06:05:23midkay:)
06:05:56livingtmI have a handful of the original nano's mainboards
06:06:08scorcheoh...yeah =)
06:06:10livingtmi used to have one of the boards from the 30G video as well
06:06:34livingtmyeah they are still in the webbing from the manufacturing stage.. 4 nanos to a board
06:06:55livingtmat one point i had the board with the broadcom on it
06:07:07livingtmabout 3 months before the video came out
06:07:16livingtmipod video that is
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06:09:22livingtmit isnt possible to reverse engineer the apple firmware?
06:11:28livingtmjust to figure out how the video decompression works?
06:13:16midkayi don't believe so.. or it'd be a lot of work.
06:13:21kkurbjunit's possible, but it's difficult
06:13:23 Part digerati1338
06:13:41livingtmmaybe boot some debugger then the apple firmware or something?
06:14:01livingtmim not a low level hardware guy, obviously
06:14:07livingtmnot beyond tinkering anyhow
06:14:14kkurbjunon the gigabeat, shoora figured out the lcd initialization, and that's a string of 30 or so characters that have to be sent, but we don't know what any of that is doing
06:14:33livingtmhm
06:14:46kkurbjunyou can see what the code is on a very low level, but it doesn't really tell you what all the different registers do or what their purpose is without the datasheets
06:14:56livingtmim looking at the data sheet for one of the audio decoders
06:15:00kkurbjunor without flipping bits to see their results
06:15:12kkurbjunand that's a pretty long process
06:15:22livingtmlooks like basically the DSP takes the encoded data in from the main CPU and spit the auto out directly to the D/A's
06:15:33livingtmvideo would be similar?
06:15:49livingtmCPU -> DSP (broadcom) -> LCD?
06:16:35kkurbjunsomewhat, but if you look at those audio decoders, theres usually iic interfaces that you use to actually setup the chip, and without understanding what the registers are it's a pretty blind process
06:16:55kkurbjunand not very fun at that to mess around with imho
06:17:23CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
06:17:23*scorche plugs his reveng
06:17:28livingtmwhats iic? is that different from the data bus the cpu and DSP are on?
06:17:30scorchemaching into the ipod
06:17:34*scorche hears a ding
06:18:09kkurbjunthere's a bunch of ways that chips communicate from large parallel busses, to smaller serial interfaces
06:18:17kkurbjunIIC is one of those serial interfaces
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06:18:42livingtma hardware standard?
06:18:49kkurbjunthere's also spi, iis, etc
06:18:55kkurbjunthey are standards, yes
06:19:01livingtmokay i've use SPI's on microcontrollers
06:19:18livingtm"serial peripheral interface" or something like that
06:19:24kkurbjunyep
06:19:55kkurbjunthey have a general way of talking, but the specific "language" if you will of each chip is different
06:19:55livingtmthats just shift register driven if I remember correctly
06:21:49kkurbjunso it's not like you can say, this chip uses iic, now I know how to talk to it. This is all a generic example, I have no idea what interfaces that broadcom chip uses, I'm just making a point that it's not always a really straightforward process without the datasheets or userguides.
06:23:14livingtmkkurbjun, no i understand
06:23:26scorcheit just isnt realistic to say "revengineer it"
06:23:34livingtmkkurbjun, just wondering if there was more than one data bus
06:23:59livingtmi thought maybe you could watch data being sent to a particular address on the bus
06:25:12kkurbjunI gotcha, yes, that's all possible, but it's just much more difficult without any kind of reference information.
06:26:01livingtmkkurbjun, I would have thought it was harder to decrypt a dvd.. but....
06:26:29scorcheit isnt
06:26:40kkurbjunand in todays age, it's not like reverse engineering one chip is as rewarding unless someone is really interested in the platform, electronic product lifetimes are so short now
06:27:42livingtmyou guys do this stuff for a living?
06:28:19scorchenot rockbox, but most of us are in the IT industry
06:28:28scorcheor in school
06:28:30livingtmnot hardware?
06:28:39kkurbjunIn a way yes, I work for xilinx, an FPGA company.. yah, what scorche said
06:28:52livingtmxilinx.. cool
06:28:55kkurbjunI work with hardware
06:29:01*scorche lubs FPGAs
06:29:07livingtmi should have gone into hardware
06:29:17livingtmi want into mechanical engineering like an idiot
06:30:56kkurbjunThey are pretty flexible devices. Mechanical is interesting stuff too, most of my friends are mechanical engineers.
06:31:20kkurbjunactually, I just have a general engineering degree with a focus on electrical
06:31:23livingtmi turned out to be a mediocre mechanical engineer with a passion for computers and hardware :-)
06:31:58livingtmsomeone has to have access to this stuff
06:32:37scorchethat doesnt mean they will share for free or even a sum below an extremely high number
06:32:45livingtmhehe
06:32:45JdGordonscorche: or in school in the hope to get into the it industry :'(
06:32:47livingtmtrue
06:32:54scorcheJdGordon: line blow..
06:32:57scorchebelow..
06:33:22*JdGordon was expaning the line below :p
06:34:06livingtmsuprised noone at apple or any of the other manufacturers hasnt 'contributed" to a project
06:34:32JdGordonwhy would they?
06:34:40livingtmwhy not?
06:34:40scorchebecause then they would be fired and/or be sued for an exorbant amount
06:34:53livingtmim not saying giving a whole ton of crap away
06:35:01JdGordonbecause of rockbox/ipl, less people are using itunes, so less money to apple
06:35:21scorcheit doesnt matter...all of these types of companies have standard NDAs when people begin work with them
06:35:40livingtmyou know some programmer at apple or archos or something is sitting there saying "Man, i could do so much more with this hardware"
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06:35:56JdGordonthats not to say that an anonymouse contributor isnt helping out...
06:36:16livingtmthey could drop some broadcom hints :-)
06:36:41*JdGordon wouldnt at all be suprised if MrH or the origional work going into ipl was because of people ignoring NDA's
06:36:57livingtmtrue
06:37:06scorchei would think MrH works for one of these companies
06:37:19scorchei dont see any other reason for him to stay anon
06:37:30livingtmi wonder if its possible to hijack the apple firmware..... Kindof like NDISwrapper.....
06:37:31JdGordonbecause he will be in a heap of shit?
06:37:52livingtmcall their code to play the video.. thats it....
06:37:56JdGordonlivingtm: well we bassically do that with the ipod usb handling now anyway
06:38:10livingtmJdGordon, oh yeah?
06:38:18JdGordoniirc
06:38:42livingtmman i wish i knew more about this stuff
06:38:45scorchewell, we shutdown rockbox and run something that sits on the partition
06:38:54livingtmby the time i got caught up, they would be on to new hardware :-)
06:38:56scorchebut, we have no control over it or what it does
06:39:43scorcheactually, i dont thing emergency disk mode is on the partition, but same idea
06:39:47scorchethink
06:39:51livingtmhas anyone decompiled the firmware into assembly?
06:40:01*JdGordon cant ait till exams are finshed s I can try porting to the gmini402 curtosy of daurnimator :)
06:40:20scorchelivingtm: it really isnt that simple
06:40:31scorcheit doesnt mean we know what it is doing
06:40:36livingtmpeople crack games like that dont they?
06:40:43scorchethis is not a game
06:40:47livingtmthey figure out enogh about it to modify it
06:40:57livingtmim sure its not
06:41:02scorchethis is a firmware...not a program
06:41:07livingtmjust tossing out ideas
06:41:13livingtmhows that make a difference?
06:41:22livingtmfirmware is a program isnt it?
06:41:47scorcheprograms interact through the OS
06:41:54scorcheusing hooks
06:41:56livingtmok
06:42:05scorchefirmware interfaces directly with the hardware
06:42:11livingtmright
06:42:16scorcheit is a HUGE difference
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06:44:00livingtm"Broadcom provides all the necessary middleware and services for rapid and seamless integration.."
06:44:16livingtmsounds like apple didnt even get to write the low level code
06:44:34scorcheas i said before, apple doesnt necessarily even have the datasheets
06:46:05livingtmi wonder if theres firmware that gets loaded into the chip
06:46:32livingtmsuch that the broadcom chip is dumb without the apple firmware
06:48:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:49:25scorchehonestly, please reseach some more about how this works....at this point, it is just spam in the logs
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07:57:54*BHSPitMonkey wonders how hard a .ppt (or Impress) viewer would be to port to rb
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08:16:27AceNik___anyone havin a h10 20 gb & know how to compile , can you try out a patch?
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08:19:33GodEaterdoes anyone know if a gigabeat will charge from USB if it's run right down so far it won't power on? Or does it need the AC Adaptor at that point ?
08:24:07toffe82I think that is the battery is really low, it doesn't charge on the usb
08:24:20GodEaterbugger
08:24:38GodEaterI left the AC adaptor at home :(
08:24:55 Quit AceNik___ ("bye guys have fun , enjoy !!!!!")
08:24:56toffe82or you have to wait a long time I think
08:25:19toffe82good night
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08:30:26daurnimatorJdGordon: your h300 has a BAD battery
08:30:30daurnimatorcharged it all night
08:30:44daurnimatortook with me in morning - rebooted it: 4.32V
08:31:15daurnimator200m down the road: 3.59 or something, after it turned off.
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08:37:11GodEaterI'd really hoped that writing that wiki page on the 80GB iPod would stop the forum posts. But now we're just getting dumb suggestions instead. sheesh
08:40:19LloreanUnfortunately, explaining things to users in a clear and rational way doesn't work to well for users who don't understand the explanation. =/
08:41:09amiconnbah
08:41:19amiconnThis ipod80 issue is getting annoying
08:41:22GodEaterMaybe I should add a footnote : "If you didn't understand any of the above - may I suggest http://en.wikipedia.org/"
08:41:51LloreanHeh.
08:41:54GodEaterLinusN did say he was going to put it on the agenda at Devcon - maybe it'll go away
08:41:59amiconnProbably something to do for me on devcon friday if LinusN lends me his ipod80. But maybe he wants to do it himself...
08:42:02GodEaterare you going amiconn ?
08:42:14GodEaterthat answers that then :)
08:42:30amiconnThis shouldn't take more than a few hours if we do it in the ata driver
08:42:43LinusNi am considering some 80gb work at devcon, yes :-)
08:42:44GodEaterI think you should just steal it from him amiconn - your way sounds much quicker than his :)
08:43:05haxamiconn: you got an 80gb ipod too?
08:43:10amiconnnope
08:43:15*hax just looked in
08:43:26haxamiconn: oh i do, and the firmware is driving me crazy, i really wanna try rockbox
08:43:40haxi hate that i cant pick what i want by directory, it's so stupid
08:43:42LinusNi'm not particularly fond of the ata driver solution, but if that's what people wants, then let's do it that way
08:43:48GodEaterI had a quick look at the ata_mmc stuff - but it very quickly went over my head. I *really* need to brush up my C code.
08:44:07GodEaterand probably my math too
08:44:18LinusNthe ipod performance sucks anyway, so why not let it suck even more :-)
08:44:23haxi know C, can i do something to improve the situation?
08:44:23haxheh
08:44:47GodEaterhax: yes, download the rockbox source code and change it to make it work!
08:45:02haxGodEater: is there any way i can accidentally brick the thing?
08:45:15GodEaterHax: if you find a way, you'll be the first
08:45:16haxGodEater: and do i have to be on *nix to do it? (i mainly use winxp these days)
08:45:31haxGodEater: how exactly do you get debugging info off an ipod?
08:45:35haxor is it just a lot of guess and check?
08:45:36GodEaterhax: no - you can use cygwin, vmware, or colinux
08:45:37amiconnLinusN: Of course a more thorough solution in the fat driver is still possible, but this way we could get ipod80 support out the door. And I don't think performance will suffer much
08:45:39LloreanYou guys gonna talk about the 32/64mb issue on iPods as well at Devcon maybe?
08:46:01LinusNLlorean: put it ini the wiki
08:46:05haxGodEater: the actual thing that puts it on the ipod still works in windows, right? i already got cygwin installed
08:46:10GodEaterhax: as for debugging - use a lot of lcd_puts() lcd_update() calls.
08:46:12haxGodEater: or is that where the problem is?
08:46:24haxGodEater: hell, i'll give it a shot, i just got out of class, got a week or so off
08:46:38GodEaterhax, the tools to get it installed on the iPod run in windows yes - that's most definitely NOT the issue.
08:46:47haxGodEater: oh, that simplifies things then
08:46:55amiconnGodEater: ata_mmc does some more esoteric things with its block buffer because of the sh1 spi peculiarities
08:47:01GodEaterhax: have you read the wiki page descirbing the problem.
08:47:23haxGodEater: not in any detail, something about the hard drive controller
08:47:30GodEateramiconn: yes - that's where I got stuck - I couldn't work out which bits were needed for a generic ata solution, and which bits were specific to the sh1 issues.
08:47:33haxGodEater: btw, how confident is everyone that i can't brick my ipod trying this?
08:47:37haxheh
08:47:39amiconnhax: It's not the controller, but the drive itself
08:47:42GodEaterhax: 110%
08:48:10GodEaterno-one has managed to brick an iPod whilst hacking rockbox on one.
08:48:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:48:36GodEaterthe only way we know to do such a thing is to do something stupid like a hard reset during an *apple* firmware upgrade.
08:48:39haxGodEater: what's the magic reset-my-firmware button?
08:48:54amiconnThe controller is the same in all pp5020/5021/5022 devices as it's built into the pp
08:49:18haxshould i be working with svn or 2.5?
08:49:19GodEaterhax: see the ipod install forum - the sticky thread entitled "my ipod install went wrong" I wrote down the shortcuts there.
08:49:27haxGodEater: sweet
08:49:29GodEaterhax: svn. 2.5 is ancient
08:49:37amiconn2.5 is archos only
08:49:45GodEaterand so old it's fossilised
08:50:02haxheh
08:52:05haxhmm, i gotta remember how to install stuff like svn with cygwin
08:52:11haxhavent done anything like this on windows yet
08:52:38GodEaterhax: svn is in the cygwin setup program under development tools I think
08:53:18haxyeah, i think i need to download the setup again
08:53:33haxyou'd think it'd be some package management tool that's built in
08:53:35haxbut apparently not
08:53:49GodEaterhurrah - life from the my gigabeat again! Apparently it does charge from USB even when looking like it's utterly dead.
08:53:56GodEateruseful to know
08:53:59amiconncygwin-setup.exe *is* the package manager
08:54:32GodEaterhax: how familiar are you with ATA ?
08:56:03haxGodEater: uhh, most of my computers have it :)
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08:56:15haxGodEater: not very, to be honest, but my C skills arent that bad
08:57:57GodEaterhax: well I recommend download the ATA-7 spec in that case and having a look at it. Otherwise you'll be lost pretty quickly.
08:59:49haxGodEater: hmm, does it matter which IC it is?
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09:01:03haxi don't see a generic spec
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09:02:24GodEaterhax: http://www.t13.org/Documents/UploadedDocuments/docs2007/D1532v1r4b-AT_Attachment_with_Packet_Interface_-_7_Volume_1.pdf
09:02:28GodEaterI think that's the one you want
09:03:48*amiconn wonders whether we should enable our special measures for all ata devices with large sectors, or only enable them for specific hdds with known-bad firmware
09:04:32amiconnI mean, the ata specs say the disk's firmware is supposed to handle partial physical sector reads/writes, just the toshiba thing doesn't do it
09:05:00GodEaterI must have missed that bit of the spec
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09:06:25haxGodEater: wow, so is this like a bug thing, or there's simply no suitable driver?
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09:06:38haxi don't think i could write a driver for ATA7 from scratch
09:06:43amiconnGodEater: ATA-ATAPI-7-v1.pdf page 68
09:06:52haxthis spec is massive
09:07:44GodEaterhax: I think I may have given you the wrong link - check around on t13.org a bit more
09:07:48amiconn"A performance penalty may be incurred when writing to devices that implement long physical sector feature set. A physical sector is read or written in a single operation. If a host system does not write all of the logical sectors in a physical sector during a single command the device may need to read the logical sectors that are not to be changed into memory and then write the entire physical sector,"
09:08:06amiconnTo me this looks like it implies the device should support it
09:09:07GodEaterah yes
09:09:29GodEaterI think when I read that bit, I assumed it was a warning to the developers on the host system that they needed to do it.
09:10:21LloreanWell, it says "the device may need to...", so at least it suggest to me what Amiconn said, but it is a little bit ambiguous.
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09:11:29amiconnThe ata specs are a bit ambiguous in a number of places. They often say 'should' instead of 'must'
09:12:08haxhmm
09:12:51GodEater"may need" is a stupid way to put it
09:13:27GodEaterit should read "may need to read ... unless you can think of another magic way of doing it that we can't"
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09:14:12amiconnThe 'may need' may also just refer to 'if not already buffered'
09:17:30peturor: depends on the implementation of the manufacturer. It talks about the internals of the device
09:19:11haxwell at least cygwin is updating
09:19:11haxheh
09:25:19haxalright, this thing is gonna take all night to update anyway... but i'll take a look at the svn tomorrow, maybe i can help get it to work
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09:30:25*hax heads off for some rest
09:33:23Mouser_XQuestion: Could anyone tell me what type the cheapest player that Rockbox runs on is? And how much?
09:33:38Mouser_X(The cheaper the better...)
09:34:08scorchelikely would be a 1st gen 1gb nano
09:34:15scorcheor if you find a good deal on ebay
09:35:24Mouser_XHmmm. I'm just thinking of the various formats I'd like to see in Rockbox. I thought "If I buy them (the person who makes the format/player/plugin) a player, maybe they'd port it?"
09:36:08scorcheyou would have to talk to individual people about that, but it is typically a lot of work and simply buying them the device is not enough
09:36:33LloreanI'm curious which format it is that's got you considering that kind of thing
09:36:33Mouser_XYes, probably not. Wishful thinking, more than anything.
09:36:38Mouser_XVGM.
09:37:09Mouser_X(also VGZ, which is compressed VGM)
09:38:09crashdoldskool system music?
09:38:21Mouser_XMostly Sega Genesis.
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09:38:53crashdym2612 emulation ehhh
09:39:00Mouser_X(It's a logged format for specific audio hardware. The Genesis, and a few other devices, use the chips in question)
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11:36:25daurnimatorJdGordon?
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11:49:05JdGordondaurnimator: hmm.. wierd.. unless all the staying conneced to AC killed it?
11:49:29daurnimatorna, reflects same behaviour as when you gave it to me
11:49:46daurnimator(you said should have been fully charged.... tried using it, wasn't)
11:49:48JdGordonyeah, na before i gave it to u it spent 2 weeks connected to ac
11:53:27daurnimatorso... seems your battery is borked
11:54:10JdGordonbugger, ok
11:54:17JdGordonwe can swap back on sunday if you want
11:55:21markunLlorean: I just go a forum PM from someone asking me "how do i listen to music on rockbox" without telling me any more, weird
11:57:18daurnimatorJdGordon: yeah, i need music :S
11:57:30JdGordonheh :)
11:57:32LloreanPeople sign up to our forums and then only ever PM. Half the PMs I get are from people with 0 posts.
11:58:46amiconndaurnimator: 4.32V is more than full-charge for the H300 battery, really looks like the battery is defective
12:00
12:00:25amiconn(or the charging circuit has serious problems)
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12:01:04daurnimatoramiconn: tell JdGordon how to fix it :P
12:01:52JdGordonill kill you if you put the wrong charger through it :p
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12:13:49daurnimatorI have never seen anything centre negative besides power tools
12:13:49daurnimator:P
12:13:58daurnimatoranyway.... surely there's a diode :P
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12:46:26amiconndaurnimator: One would expect a protective diode... but the irivers have none
12:46:51amiconnAnd the standard nokia chargers are centre negative
12:47:32amiconn...and the nokia plug fits the H1x0 charger socket.
12:47:44amiconnNokia chargers are dangerous for H1x0s
12:48:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:50:33JdGordondaurnimator: it is also possible that the batt wire broke again, i snapped it last time i opened it, so maybe the solder job was crap and fell apart?
12:51:08daurnimatorit still turns on... to show a split second of the bootloader
12:51:15daurnimatorlonger if u charge for a while
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12:53:50MoJoafternoon all
12:54:32MoJoi have a question: can anyone tell me what the current status of the iPod 3g port of Rockbox is? The wiki seems to be saying that most stuff does not work due to the CPU being too slow. Is that still the case?
12:59:28linuxstbMoJo: No-one is actively working on the 3g port.
13:00
13:00:53MoJookay, thanks
13:01:28MoJoi don't want to spend a lot of money to run RockBox, but it looks like I'll need a new player
13:03:37scorcheit isnt really the CPU, it is the cache on it iirc
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13:43:23markunsomething wrong with build.rockbox.org?
13:48:37linuxstbmarkun: Yes, I can't access it...
13:48:52*linuxstb spots Zagor
13:49:14Zagorlooking at it
13:51:12markunlinuxstb: might be another one of those chinese blackfin based DAP/game things: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10428.0
13:51:43Zagorworks after apache restart. unknown problem.
13:52:00Zagorlogs show no particular problem
13:55:19LinusNscary
13:56:20Zagorhmm, "server reached MaxClients setting" is probably the reason
13:56:47Zagori discovered the robots.txt for svn was not set properly, so we had crawlers indexing it like mad
13:57:00linuxstbmarkun: "Alba" is a relatively well-known brand in the UK at least (known for cheap consumer electronics). Have you heard of them?
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14:06:15linuxstbmarkun: Although that seems even cheaper (43 UKP for a 2GB flash model including shipping to the UK) than the earlier one you found...
14:06:25Zagorgooglebot is looking at robots.txt far too seldom. blocking its' ip now.
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14:21:04Zagoranyone feel responsible for dsl-153.240-54.static.indo.net.id ?
14:21:15Zagorit's hammering the server non-stop
14:21:20Zagorplease stop
14:23:56JdGordongrabbing one of the vids maybe?
14:24:06Zagorno, rockdoom.zip
14:24:15Zagorusing a zillion partial transfers
14:24:23Zagori.e. using up all sockets
14:24:43JdGordonisnt there a setting for max connctions per ip?
14:24:55JdGordon... in apache i mean
14:25:05iwantanimacif i remember correctly, yes.
14:25:08Zagorgood idea, i'll look into that
14:25:13Zagorblocking his ip for now
14:25:17iwantanimachavent actually used apache proper for ages.
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14:36:00LinusNsome silly download manager?
14:36:11Zagoryeah, looks like it
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14:36:30Zagoralthough the user-agent string doesn't say that
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14:44:39preglowZagor: how seldom does it look at it?
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14:46:06Zagorgooglebot? I don't know. I blocket its' ip now so I guess we won't know either :)
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14:48:59preglowso google can't search us anymore?
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14:54:01scorchei think he was referring to the download server, but i dont know for sure
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14:56:23Zagorpreglow: I only blocked access to the svn browser
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15:00:16preglowmight as well
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15:19:49markunlinuxstb: no, I don't know them
15:19:53*linuxstb prays for a green build table
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15:25:25markunlinuxstb: does Alba have a homepage?
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15:29:32linuxstbmarkun: I found http://www.albaplc.com but it has very little info there.
15:30:24amiconnlinuxstb: RED
15:30:41amiconnyour prayer didn't help
15:30:45linuxstbamiconn: I know, but only on your server...
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15:31:12amiconnoh?
15:31:41linuxstbThe h120 sim was one of my test compiles (I did a real target and sim build for all three CPUs) and it works fine here.
15:31:45amiconnummm
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15:32:02*amiconn wonders what's up with the bintuils stuff on debian unstable :(
15:32:17amiconnI did *not* update bintuils itself...
15:33:46linuxstbamiconn: Can you test a build without my changes?
15:34:42linuxstbAlthough it seems to be /lib/libc.so.6 causing the problem.
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15:37:25preglowin a very disturbing way...
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15:38:29amiconnYes, rather odd
15:39:49amiconnThere must be something wrong with the package dependencies
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16:26:46markunhi AceNik___
16:27:10AceNik___uys i just wanted to know what kind of settings in rockbox on the h10 would save more battery life i get 5n half hrs now ,
16:27:28AceNik___ markun:hey markun , so you porting new players i read
16:27:41markunAceNik___: if you browse a lot then 'dircache' might help a bit
16:28:03AceNik___what kind of values , should idle power-off have , disk spindown hav ?, sleep after lcd have ?
16:28:05markunand the backlight also consumes a lot, so have a short timeout for that helps too
16:28:25markunif you have dircache on you can have a short disk spindown
16:28:51markunbut I don't know how much a change for each setting will affect battery life
16:29:09markunAceNik___: well, I only worked on porting the gigabeat so far
16:29:18markunor rather porting rockbox to the gigabeat
16:29:20AceNik___i have 5 as a default vale for backlight , disk spindown , is that ok
16:29:35markunwhat about dircache?
16:30:12AceNik___well how much does the h10 give others, cause i know , im using every setting to the fullest n also saving bare minimums here n thr , got sexy audio from bass n treble settings , n EQ off
16:30:49AceNik___dircache is on yes, should i switch it off, but then that causes double n triple entries due to database loading to RAM
16:30:58AceNik___F40?
16:31:05AceNik___what player is that ?
16:31:10markungigabeat
16:32:04ArathisAceNik___: I'm getting about 8h on my H10/20GB. I don't have any EQ or things active though
16:32:21AceNik___whats the progress with the rockbox player , i read people making one
16:32:36markunAceNik___: I read only vague plans
16:33:02markunalthough there has been a university project to make a rockbox player I think
16:33:30AceNik___Arathis:try keeping , dircache on , use database, load it to RAM, keep BASS:18, Treble:16, i feel this is the ultimate useage of the battery anyone would want to experience , n trust me the music rocks with this
16:34:15AceNik___markun: did you check out the HTML parser plugin , & also the new scroll patch for H10
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16:35:01AceNik___im trying both , scrolling seems to be the same, waiting for Barry Wardell to use it though , he would know whats right
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16:35:13ArathisAceNik___: besides bass and treble options that's what I'm running with
16:35:17markunAceNik___: why are you asking which settings to use for better battery life if you already feel you have "the ultimate useage of the battery anyone would want to experience" ?
16:35:45markunbesides, the bass and trebble settings depend on your ears, taste and headphones
16:36:04markunno, didn't check them out
16:36:44markunAceNik___: what is the HTML parser plugin used for?
16:37:15AceNik___markun: well i just use to wonder since im consuming the player so much , wanted to know what others use , although i recommend these, i wanted to know if there is a way , that dircache would not be used again or somethin like that sort to save extra processin
16:37:48AceNik___ markun: well it converts the HTML file to a .txt, to view, its good in a certain way , though
16:38:13markunAceNik___: one problem is that the CPU in the H10 doesn't come with any documentation. It's sure we are not getting optimal battery life because of that.
16:39:38AceNik___ markun: i know many people trying like hell to find out that portal players processor documentation
16:40:34markunrockbox devs?
16:41:11AceNik___ markun: ya i guess them , i read in the forums , how people react to comments on battery life
16:41:32*linuxstb wonders why every feature request for divx/xvid has been closed - shouldn't we leave one open?
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16:43:35AceNik___ linuxstb: i believe you can
16:44:53linuxstbAceNik___: What do you mean?
16:45:09markunAceNik___: http://www.diva-portal.org/liu/undergraduate/abstract.xsql?dbid=7114
16:45:15peppowho wants my ipod 80gb?
16:45:19AceNik___you can leave one feature request open
16:45:20peppoany devs?
16:45:40linuxstbAceNik___: I know we can, I'm wondering why people keep closing them...
16:46:04AceNik___k
16:46:51markunAceNik___: why do you have so many underscores in your nick?
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16:47:56AceNik___i cant remove it , i dont know y , im using trillian
16:48:10linuxstbYou can't just type "/nick AceNik" ?
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16:49:21AceNikcool
16:49:27AceNikdidnt know that thanks
16:49:34linuxstbYou're welcome.
16:50:57AceNikill head of now , markun i saw the link , lets hope good hardware expandle players come out soon, & that there soon will be pcb's of players with standard architechture made, just liek the computers motherboards
16:50:58 Quit desowin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:51:12AceNikuntil then keep buying branded players
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16:53:27AceNikc u enjoy
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16:56:45The-CompilerHello
16:56:51H10_007quickHi
16:57:00bluebrotherdo we really want to have a feature request for divx being open? We already have over 500 requests
16:57:18bluebrotherIMO we should close a lot more feature requests.
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17:00
17:03:12 Part juxtap
17:03:13preglowdeed
17:16:20linuxstbbluebrother: But what's the point of a feature request tracker then?
17:16:51linuxstbIf we close things, people just request them again...
17:17:47GodEateryeah, just keep a DivX request open, and fill it with sarcastic comments instead :)
17:18:53GodEatersomething like : "...for DivX support in rockbox, please contact www.thepiratebay.org who are working on support for us"
17:19:43GodEateror is that a bit too mean ?
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17:21:42linuxstbGodEater: I don't think any comments are needed - I think it's a valid request and will happen when someone does it. The more video codecs we can support the better IMO.
17:21:54amiconnDivX supports isn't that far-fetched imho. Afaik the video format in the X5 OF is mpeg4
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17:22:42markunI don't think so either, but until we have a DAP which can do scaling in real time I don't think adding a video codec is adding a feature
17:23:05linuxstbHow is that any different to audio codecs?
17:23:21markunlinuxstb: because you don't need to reencode your audio files
17:23:36badsheepyunless they are wma :)
17:23:41amiconnmarkun: Well, technically you do with AAC on coldfire...
17:24:11markunamiconn: reencode to what?
17:24:12 Quit gursikh (Client Quit)
17:24:12GodEatermarkun makes a good point
17:24:23linuxstbmarkun: Also, divx/xvid have a far more flexible range of possible framerates - MPEG-2 has no options between 15fps and 24fps.
17:24:41markunlinuxstb: I would have no problem in switching to a better codec
17:25:33markunbut I suspect that people request divx/xvid because they want to play their downloaded/ripped files
17:25:36amiconnmarkun: Lower bitrate or different codec, as aac isn't realtime on coldfire
17:25:58amiconn...yet aac was added to rockbox (of course in the hope of getting it realtime one day)
17:26:15markunamiconn: true..
17:26:34bluebrotherbut a audio codec is about Rockbox main purpose: playing music.
17:26:57bluebrotheror has playing video became a main purpose of Rockbox in the meantime?
17:27:07amiconnvalid point
17:27:11linuxstbRockbox needs to compete with the original firmwares we want to replace.
17:27:34linuxstbLike it or not, I think Rockbox needs to evolve to include video.
17:27:44bluebrotherhmm. Really? How much people in here care about the OF?
17:27:49amiconnCurrently, rockbox is a dap firmware because it runs on daps
17:28:30linuxstbBut people don't seem to make DAPs any more...
17:28:31amiconnAs soon as it's ported to the first pmp, it will also become a pmp firmware, and video codecs will be required
17:29:04bluebrotherof course it could evolve into something that includes video. But that's still a long way, and until there is support for video in the core new video formats aren't in the main scope.
17:29:26amiconnI dare to say that as long as we're only dealing with daps with added video functionality, we don't absolutely need to support video
17:29:42bluebrotheragreed.
17:29:52amiconnIt's a nice-to-have, nothing more
17:29:57markunI really like the video playback
17:30:30amiconnBut if people want to work on video support, why not? As long as those people wouldn't work on other areas of rockbox otherwise, that's okay
17:30:34markunit adds a lot of fun to rockbox for me
17:30:43bluebrotherpersonally I'd prefer a working replacement for a feature-blown replacement. And there are still issues with the playback engine.
17:30:55markunamiconn: jhMikeS works on every part of rockbox it seems :)
17:31:06amiconnI don't care much about video. To me it's mainly a "look, we can even do _that_" feature
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17:31:27bluebrotherI don't have any problem with people working on video
17:31:34markunamiconn: for the existing Gigabeat owners it was a big issue
17:31:54amiconnThe gigabeat is a nasty target ;)
17:31:58markun:)
17:32:04linuxstbbluebrother: Going back to the original question, what kinds of feature requests do you think we should or should not allow to remain?
17:32:06markunamiconn: did you see one yet?
17:32:11amiconn(even though I once watched a whole LotR episode on my recorder...)
17:32:13markunthere will be 2 at the devcon
17:32:46bluebrotherI think feature requests that are unlikely to be in the scope of Rockbox for a good while shouldn't be there.
17:33:24linuxstbBut isn't "the scope of Rockbox" whatever people choose to work on?
17:33:30preglowit is
17:33:37bluebrotheras that request are usually made by users, and if it doesn't happen in like, the next 2 years, then that request isn't useful
17:33:38preglowno point in calling it anything else
17:33:44bluebrotherneither for Rockbox nor for the user.
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17:34:10amiconnlinuxstb: Get your first pmp port up & running if you want video in the core...
17:34:14markunbluebrother: some people are pointed to the feature requests if they want to work on rockbox..
17:34:26preglowamiconn: why shouldn't video be in the core until then?
17:34:26bluebrotherI don't say we shouldn't work on those things if someone feels to do so. But having such tasks rotting around only clutters the tracker
17:34:33bluebrothermarkun: we could close them as "later"
17:34:36preglowamiconn: who cares if a player was meant to be able to play video if it can do so
17:35:00GodEaterI'd love to see some stats on the tracker about the number of requests that actually get picked up
17:35:09GodEateras a ratio of total requests
17:35:19markunpreglow: exactly why it was so crazy of Toshiba to put a nice screen and 300MHz CPU in a DAP..
17:35:34markunand hardly using them\
17:35:51preglowwhat kind of a screen does gigabeat have?
17:36:00GodEatermarkun: maybe that SAT encryption was a real beast? ;)
17:36:13amiconnAn unpractical colour screen...
17:36:21markunpreglow: the X has a 2.4" 240x320 18-bit TFT
17:36:25GodEaternot impractical for watching videos
17:36:27preglowooh
17:36:27markunthe F only 2.2, but still nice
17:36:44toffe82the X is really nice ;)
17:37:15*amiconn wonders whether the gigabeat screen also has that nasty angle dependency as the H300 and X5 and most other mobile colour tfts I saw
17:37:22preglowprobably
17:37:32markunamiconn: you'll see it soon
17:37:58preglowonly displays i've seen that doesn't have that are computer displays
17:38:07preglowand they too have it, just to a lesser degree
17:38:16markunwell, if you look at from more than 45 degrees the image gets darker or lighter, but otherwise it looks fine to me
17:38:20preglowi think video in the core sounds like a nice idea anyway
17:38:26preglowcan't see a single reason why we wouldn't want it
17:39:56amiconnFirst, the core playback engine needs to be stable
17:40:11preglowsure
17:41:37GodEaterI see that comment about the playback engine a lot. In what way is it "unstable" ?
17:41:51toffe82the spec for the lcd of the F give 140° vertical and 130 horizontal at cr=10 , don't know what is cr
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17:42:25preglowGodEater: in the way that it sometimes hangs and behaves weirdly
17:42:36preglowtoffe82: contrast?
17:42:46toffe82perhaps
17:42:53GodEatertoffe82: don't know if you saw my comment this morning - but my gigabeat was up and running again off a usb charge in about ten minutes - even though there wasn't enough battery power for it to turn on.
17:43:09GodEaterpreglow: that's odd - I've never had it do that to me =/
17:43:16preglowi have
17:43:27preglowthough it's starting to be some time ago
17:43:28toffe82GodEater: good to know
17:43:48GodEatertoffe82: that's what I though :)
17:43:53GodEaters/though/thought
17:44:19amiconnSwcodec playback sometimes behaves really strange
17:45:45linuxstbamiconn: Do you mostly use swcodec with voice, or do you get problems without it?
17:46:31amiconnWithout voice atm
17:46:38*preglow out
17:47:30amiconnI mostly used voice in my car, but I havent got around to installing my trusty radio with AUX input into my new car
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17:48:33toffe82markun: have you seen , wibbix is back
17:48:59H10_007quickbarrywardell: is there a difference between the scrollpad of the H10 5gb as compared to the 20gb?
17:49:37markuntoffe82: yes!
17:49:58markuntoffe82: looks like ages ago alreay :)
17:50:10markunlike a reunion, with wibbix and gotthardt
17:50:10toffe82markun: yes
17:51:47toffe82reunion of promo 2006 ;)
17:52:34markuntoffe82: I'm chatting with someone with a Gigabeat F20 with hardware problem, I think you could help him
17:52:50toffe82markun: what is is problem ?
17:53:26markuntoffe82: the Gigabeat thinks there is always a USB connection
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17:54:07toffe82markun: never see this, with the original firmware ?
17:54:14markunso he's not able to use the OF, he also installed rockbox but it also enters USB mode (if I understand his problem correctly)
17:54:25DodDD242Hello Toffe82
17:54:33markunhe tried with v2.0 and v3.0 of the OF
17:54:34toffe82DodDD242: hello
17:54:36markunthere he is :)
17:54:52DodDD242Hi there. looks like you already know my problem.
17:54:55toffe82perhpas we should go on #gigabeat
17:55:05markuntoffe82: it's not possible with the webclient
17:55:07markunbut you can PM
17:55:10toffe82ok
17:56:16toffe82DodDD242: look your pm
18:00
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18:39:47SliMMhello
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18:40:20SliMMwgere can i start translating rockbox into another language?
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18:41:16DomonokySliMM: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LangFiles
18:41:38SliMMthanks
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18:41:56markunSliMM: which language?
18:42:17SliMMi want to update the stupid romanian translation
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18:42:32markunok :)
18:43:02SliMMthough there are just 3 romanian rockbox users on that map :))
18:43:09 Quit obo ("KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/")
18:43:35markunSliMM: well, I spent a lot of time on displaying arabic, and I only know 1 person using it :)
18:44:01SliMMhow can i use extended latin characters?
18:44:34markunSliMM: you need to use UTF-8
18:44:45SliMMok
18:44:50SliMMunix line formatinf?
18:44:57SliMMformating*
18:45:00markunI think so
18:45:03SliMMdouble t
18:45:34markunSliMM: do you have an editor which supports UTF-8?
18:45:52SliMMnotepad :)
18:46:14markunok
18:46:21markunhere are some more, just in case: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UnicodeGuide#Text_editors_supporting_Unicode
18:46:38markunnotepad2 is a nice replacement for notepad I think
18:47:24SliMMmarkun i have notepad++ and i can use that
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18:48:01SliMMi think i'll replace notepad right now :)
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18:49:05SliMMcan you give me a link to english.lang in the svn?
18:49:25SliMMthe translation wiki page points to the one in the cvs i think
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18:50:57DomonokySliMM: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/lang/?pathrev=13369
18:51:21SliMMthanks
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18:56:45SliMMwhat does deprecate mean?
18:57:12Domonokythe entry is not used anymore, it old
19:00
19:00:21H10_007quickhow do I set something to a function in C ?
19:00:52bluebrotherset something? You want to pass parameters?
19:01:42H10_007quickjust so that I can say do function_test
19:01:51H10_007quicka set of if else
19:02:34H10_007quickdo you do int function_test { } ?
19:02:46bluebrotheryou want to create a new function or what?
19:02:51H10_007quickya
19:02:53intgrint function_test() { /* code */ }
19:03:12bluebrotherah. int function(type arg, ...) { }
19:03:20H10_007quickok
19:03:22H10_007quickthank you
19:03:32bluebrotheryou have K&R around?
19:03:37SliMMtype function(type arg, ..){}
19:03:58intgrYeah, you really should be reading a book/tutorial if you don't know this. :)
19:04:08SliMMhow many strings are there in rockbox and what are voice strings good for?
19:04:33bluebrotherread §1.7 in K&R
19:05:53H10_007quickthats a book right?
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19:06:47bluebrotheryes. Kernighan & Ritchie, The C Programming Language
19:07:08bluebrothersort of the Bible for C programming. I can highly recommend it.
19:07:21H10_007quickmaybe I will have to buy it
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19:07:55bluebrotherPossibly. I don't think there is a free version available. But it's definitely worth buying it ;-)
19:08:28*intgr has never read a book about a programming language.
19:09:33SliMMtoo bad, intgr
19:10:07H10_007quickhttp://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/item/books-978013109984/0131099841/The-C-Programming-LanguageConvergent-Technologies-Edition?ref=Search+Books%3a+'Kernighan+%26+Ritchie' That one ?
19:10:14intgrI hate how books always try to be about everything for everyone, so 90% of the time you end up reading about stuff you already know about.
19:10:18SliMMshould i translate in a friendly manner or a polite one?
19:10:43SliMMintgr: not if you know nothing
19:12:16SliMMi'll leave the voice strings in english
19:13:41amiconnThe voice strings are also supposed to be translated
19:14:20amiconnOf course it's up to you if you want to do text & voice at once, text first and voice later, or even only text and leave voice for another person
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19:14:55SliMMamiconn: how do voice strings work?
19:14:58amiconnIt also depends on whether there is a tts engine for that language
19:15:13amiconnThey're used for building voice files
19:15:21SliMMoh
19:15:35SliMMi'll first do text
19:16:13amiconnTheoretically you could even build a voice file with a human voice reading the snippets, but it's a tedious task
19:16:33amiconnCassandra did that once for english (quite some time ago)
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19:18:29bluebrotherH10_007quick: looks good, tough I don't know about this "Convergent Edition". Look here: http://www.amazon.com/C-Programming-Language-2nd/dp/0131103628/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-7432550-0328756?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178817459&sr=8-2
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19:22:33*Nico_P should buy this
19:27:22gotthardtH10_007quick: free - http://www.nongnu.org/c-prog-book/online/index.html
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20:20:27DodDD242toffe82, check your PM plz
20:27:26XavierGrhmm does someone know if there is an ftoa (float to string) function in the C standard library?
20:29:10petursscanf?
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20:29:47*amiconn doesn't seem to be able to make sense from jhMikeS' latest dev ml mails :(
20:29:52gotthardtsprintf(string, "%f", floatingpoint)
20:30:16*petur misread that as string to float :/
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20:36:39a1titudeI'm just wondering here what kind of cpu power is required to decode vorbis, and mp3? Thanks
20:37:26nlsa1titude: what do you mean with "what kind of cpu power" ?
20:37:29*jhMikeS doesn't seem to be able to either :'(
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20:38:48a1titudeWhat decoding power would something need to decode vorbis (& mp3) in real time?
20:39:46*jhMikeS suspects some other interrupt that counts as another GPIO causing an interrupt flurry when GPIO IRQs are fully enabled
20:40:14a1titudeAnd has rockbox ever considered supporting http://www.theora.org/ as the video codec. (instead of mpeg)
20:41:12nlsa1titude: how do you measure "decoding power"?
20:42:00a1titudehaha I'm confused
20:42:29nlsRockbox can for example playback mp3 and display wps as well as do some dsp with a Coldfire 5249/5250 running at 45MHz
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20:43:02a1titudeah, yeah
20:43:06werty1sthello
20:43:14a1titudehi
20:43:15werty1sti have a question
20:43:24nlsshoot
20:43:44werty1stis it possible to customize the rockbox menu? i want to disable/hide some menu entrys
20:44:04nlswerty1st: if you edit the source code it is
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20:45:32a1titudeJust I heard the 3G ipod can't decode vorbis due to the power required...
20:45:53werty1stwhere can i download the source for the archos v2
20:45:55nlsa1titude: the 3G ipod can't decode mp3 realtime in rockbox either
20:46:15a1titudewoah, ok that explains it
20:46:39a1titudethanks
20:46:42nlswerty1st: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/source/rockbox-20070510.tar.bz2 source code for rockbox
20:46:58werty1stis this the lates version?
20:47:03nlsyes
20:47:03werty1stok i see
20:48:03nlswerty1st: you can get it from svn too, check the wiki for instructions, there are also instructions for setting up a development environment and compiling
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20:53:21werty1sti try the vmware image
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21:00:48XavierGrthanks, sprintf worked like a charm
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21:01:28SliMMhalf finished the translation
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21:33:02pixelmaNico_P: seen this http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10418.msg79274#msg79274 ? He's right - since the tokenizer the last image in the battery level/volume enums isn't only used for "full" as before... It's taken into account for the "devision" into parts as well.
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21:34:02Nico_Ppixelma: yes. that's something I wanted to discuss then forgot
21:34:21Nico_Pactually I'm a little surprised it dodn't come up earlier
21:39:42pixelmanow many of the built-in wps that uses are a bit off (they often use the same graphic for "full" and the next which is now 2 "parts")
21:40:00pixelmalike iCatcher for example
21:40:29Nico_Pbut do we really want to have a special "full" level ?
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21:40:58Nico_Pthat's the question I was intending to ask
21:42:12pixelmaI don't know... IIRC Lear committed this, maybe he had his reasons.
21:42:23*amiconn wouldn't think so
21:43:10amiconnIt costs a bit of precision
21:43:22pixelmawhy's that?
21:45:04amiconnExample: The archos player has a volume display with only 5 segments. This allows for 6 different graphics, no segment and 1, 2, ... 5 segments
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21:46:08pixelmaand?
21:47:17amiconnThe volume range is -78 ...+18 dB, i.e. 96dB. This is mapped to the available 6 graphics in a 'round to nearest' fashion
21:47:52pixelmawell... ok. Since many of the wps creators just "doubled up" the last graphic, it most probably isn't needed...
21:48:28amiconnFor the explanation I assume the range as 100. Then 0..9 is mapped to 0, 10..29 is mapped to 20, 30..49 is mapped to 40 ..... 90 to 100 is mapped to 100
21:48:52amiconnSo each graphic is used for 20 steps, only the ones at the end are used for 10 steps
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21:49:56amiconnHaving a special 'full' graphic would shift this mapping, so that this last graphic is used for a single level only, and all others would have to cover a wider range
21:50:20pixelmayes, understood - was just thinking that there are ways to achieve this too... with the "doubling-up-tactic" ;)
21:51:15amiconnWell, either a special 'full' graphic spreads all others or you need one more graphic
21:52:46nlsamiconn: iirc it was you that added the battery charginh animation in the statusbar, is there a reason that it is always dark grey even on color targets?
21:52:46amiconnAnd with a 'full' graphic this round-to-nearest mechanism makes less sense, but having it like this feels more natural than the round-down which the multi-value conditionals do in the wps (afaik)
21:53:15amiconnI didn't add the charging animation, and I didn't choose the grey
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21:53:42amiconnI merely merged the special code for greyscale targets with the older code for mono targets
21:53:55amiconnColour targets came later
21:54:05nlsok, then my memory is off as usual, would anyone be against drawing the animation with the foreground color on color targets?
21:54:18amiconnyes
21:54:40amiconnThen you cannot distinguish it from the frame and level filling, which is drawn in the foreground colour
21:55:06Dwylocamiconn: After reading your comment about AAC on Coldfire under rockbox earlier I thought I should point out that AAC audio files playback fine on the H1XX targets so I would expect them to play back fine on other Coldfire targets as well.
21:55:17amiconnThe very purpose of this grey stuff is to make the animation always distinct from the level (if possible, i.e. on greyscale targets and higher)
21:55:43linuxstbDwyloc: What bitrates are your files?
21:56:09linuxstbDwyloc: I'm pretty sure my 128kbps AAC test file is fine on my h140, but haven't tested anything higher.
21:56:23Dwyloc128bit sterio with a boost rate of about 56%
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21:56:30bluebrotherDwyloc, h100 is a coldfire target ...
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21:56:41nlsamiconn: on my h300 the whole battery level representation is dran in grey, not just the animating part from the present level, if that was what you meant
21:57:04nlsdran/drawn
21:57:06amiconnDO you have the foreground colour set to grey?
21:57:56nlsno it's white, and the battery has a white frame and inside the frame everything is grey except the part of the backdrop that shows, while animating
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21:58:28amiconnhmm?
21:58:52amiconnThe frame *and* current level should be white then
21:59:01amiconnOnly the animation is drawn in grey
21:59:25amiconnOf course you won't see the level if it's (near) zero
21:59:34nlsamiconn: you are right, maybe my memory playing tricks on me again
22:00
22:00:21nls... I could swear tho that it was like that before, which is probably not true... because I can remember wondering why it was grey, so please ignore me ;-)
22:00:22amiconnIt might be possible to draw the animation with an average of foreground and background colour...
22:00:53*amiconn doesn't care enough to do that
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22:01:23Dwylocamiconn: I think I have some 160kbps ones that play but I can't seem to find them to check the boost ratio at the moment.
22:02:01*amiconn has no single aac file
22:03:43amiconnAll I know is that the codec support page in the wiki says aac isn't realtime yet, and there are many reports of aac skipping
22:09:10Dwylocamiconn: I guess we are looking at different wiki pages as http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SoundCodecs says it works in real time on iriver and I have not experianced any skipping problems in months with AAC, but I dont use the equalizer.
22:10:05amiconnhmm... that must be relatively new then
22:11:52 Quit root___ (Connection timed out)
22:11:53amiconnThe tick was added in January, the text changed in March
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22:12:24*amiconn didn't notice optimisation of aac going on... strange
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22:13:49preglowthere's been some, but not much at all
22:13:51preglowand not recent
22:16:34Dwylocamiconn: OK 160kps files playback at about 64% boost.
22:17:31Dwylocbut the boost level started off at 100% while buffering to start with.
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22:32:36DwylocAAC has been ok since the december last year, as long as you dont want to listen to very long AAC files. As it has some sort of table size problem from what I understand.
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22:36:09DwylocI think it was Magnus Holmgren commit on the 3rd of December 2006 "Remove some unneeded code that caused problems for enhanced AAC files. " that first fixed the problem with realtime AAC on coldfire.
22:37:55DwylocNow if 80GB ipod support would just fix its self as if by magic in the same way :)
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22:42:25linuxstbIf only there was a plugin to test decoding speed....
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22:48:12linuxstbOK, on my H140, a 128kbps AAC file decodes at 150% realtime.
22:48:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:49:42linuxstbAs a comparison, a 192kbps MP3 file decodes 458% realtime...
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22:51:50linuxstbAnd FLAC is 595%
22:52:28DwylocI guess its a bit early to change over to using AAC instead of mp3's ... but at least AAC files playback ok.
22:53:08amiconnLooks like the aim should be to get codecs run at or above 200% realtime
22:53:39amiconn150% is a bit slow, given that it's only 128kbps
22:54:06linuxstbI agree it's slow, but it's usable.
22:54:07amiconnWhat bitrates are allowed for aac? Is there an upper limit, as with there is mp3?
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22:54:53amiconn*as there is with mp3
22:55:16DwylocCould the boost higher boost level required to playback AAC be part of the reason many ipod users are so unhappy with the battery life they get?
22:56:21DwylocAs I am quite happy with the battery live of my nano under rockbox but I just use it to playback mono mp3 audio books.
22:56:38Dwyloclife
22:58:17linuxstbamiconn: From the wikipedia description - "Arbitrary bitrates and variable frame length.". So no, there doesn't seem to be an upper limit.
22:59:11nlsDwyloc: it is most likely part of the reason
22:59:22nls'newasys goodnight
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23:00
23:01:58 Join AceNik [0] (n=AceNik@203.145.159.41)
23:02:15preglowabove 200% sounds like a very fine goal to me
23:02:40pregloweven though aac already does run at above 100% realtime, it really isn't very optimised at all
23:02:51HellDragonah
23:03:05AceNikhey guys i got this script from the rockbox pae , it enables you to check whether the h10 is properly setup for dual boot , i know mine is , but my question is how do i make this script work
23:04:11AceNikit says #!bin bash do i need to edit it to somethin ?
23:04:20 Join FAit [0] (i=1@night.newtown.ru)
23:04:28TrueJournalsAceNik: I would say you need to run it under linux then...
23:05:13DwylocI think my usage pattern must help as well as I don’t skip files that much and I many use my nano when I am out walking and things like that, as such I think it is one of the best rockbox targets. Right up there with my iriver H140.
23:05:25AceNikthen how can i make this script work for command prompt or can cywin do the check
23:06:07*amiconn wonders whwther 500kbps ogg vorbis plays realtime in rockbox, and if so, on which targets
23:06:11amiconn*whether
23:06:51H10_007quickAceNik: It is a shell script for linux
23:06:59H10_007quickrun it in cygwin
23:07:15H10_007quickbut your devivce will need to be mounted in cygwin
23:07:38H10_007quickand that script is out of data. I know how to update it but do we really need to?
23:07:55AceNikH10_007quick: how ?, its the ful l script is on the pae , do i make a bat file or wat , i just wanted to try this out , since it would help if we could attach these files in that page
23:08:05DwylocHas anyone tried the resent sansa e200 disk and screen power management changes so see if they can be used on the ipod nano as well?
23:08:15AceNikH10_007quick: its a good thing for the newbiee's
23:08:21H10_007quickNot really
23:08:33AceNikH10_007quick: i tried ur scroll patch , how is it different
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23:08:54H10_007quickneeds updating and it was desinged for when you needed to decyrt the original firmware
23:09:26TrueJournalsH10_007quick: I'd like to take a look at this script, but didn't see it on your website? Do you still have it hosted somewhere?
23:09:57AceNikTrueJournals: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AutomaticChecking, i think it cant still work with editing
23:10:57TrueJournalsOK, thanks
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23:11:27H10_007quickmy patch just breaks the pad into 6 sections I think, and then says that the top three go up and bottom three go down. I tried to make it so that if you went from one section to another, it would go either up or down respectivley. Unfortnetly, the readings are only 100 micro seconds apart, you would need a really fast finger to get it to work. I don't know how to get it to chech at longer...
23:11:29H10_007quick...intervals and not stall the system
23:12:39 Quit FAit (Remote closed the connection)
23:12:41H10_007quickTrueJournals: the fact that it only works on linux means I wouldn't spend time on it, the install procedure now is much easier than before. therefore we shouldn't need a script to chech to see if it is done properly
23:13:17linuxstbamiconn: I've just tested a -q10 (471kbps) vorbis file on my H140 - 166% realtime.
23:13:23AceNikH10_007quick:can there be a way to make the thing to note with direction the movement is goin each section & then accelerate it rapily somehow every step rather than breakinginto 2 sections for up n down , jus let it know which direction n accelerate
23:14:00H10_007quickkinda off topic but has anyone experenced their speakers making growling sounds when nothing is playing?
23:14:54H10_007quickAceNik: thats what I tried to do and acomplished if you can move your finger up the pad in 1000 micro seconds
23:15:30H10_007quickI might make a wiki page with all the info we have on the scroll bar
23:16:18H10_007quickThis is also my first experence with C so I don't know any of the tricks that others know
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23:17:06AceNikH10_007quick:well u kept 3 for down n 3 for up rite, keep all 6 n let it sense where the user is oin , n accelerate it at every section, like 1x, 4x, 8x, 10x
23:18:02AceNikH10_007quick:well ill also join u in a few dyas , myexams approachin , then i assure , you ill pitch in some stuff for the h10 , about time , i started learning n making stuff
23:18:15AceNik TrueJournals:any luck ?
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23:18:47H10_007quickso if you go from the bottom (section 0) to section 4 it will accelerate at 4x ?
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23:19:56AceNikH10_007quick:is there any option to select the speed or somethin related with the current or sensitivity that lets you accelerate ?
23:21:01H10_007quicknot right now
23:21:12H10_007quickat least not dirrectly
23:21:36H10_007quickit is designed so that when you hold up or down, it will accelerate
23:22:19H10_007quickbut right now the pad just gives either, up or down and the acceloration is decieded if the up or down button are held, nothing to do with the pad
23:22:26preglowlinuxstb: it would be interesting if test_codec plugin also could measure min/max instantaneous realtime ratio
23:22:54preglowlinuxstb: if a file has 140% overall boost ratio that doesn't help too much if it at one point is below 100% for some small amount of time
23:23:12 Quit SirFunk (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:23:17preglowlinuxstb: also, the $id$ thing in test_codec.c doesn't seem to be working
23:23:53AceNikH10_007quick:well , if you use the h10 Of scrollpad, its not the case, try this keep ur finger firmly pressed on the pad, jus scroll fast with ur finger , up n down alternately n c how it reacts , its brilliant
23:24:32bluebrothersvn property missing?
23:24:50AceNikH10_007quick:so i figure, its jus that the up n down buttons work as up n down , but the pad is supposed to follow both exceedingly well , or does the hardware say soemthine else?
23:25:08preglowbluebrother: yeah, probably, but i don't know how/why
23:25:31bluebrothersvn pset svn:keywords "Id Author" <file>
23:25:36amiconnBecause it wasn't set at commit (or afterwards) yet?
23:25:51bluebrotherbut there are usually some other keywords we have set
23:25:57preglowamiconn: so it's not default?
23:25:58preglowsucks
23:26:03amiconnAuthor Id Date Revision
23:26:33*amiconn thinks we should probably offer an svn autoprops configuration
23:26:40H10_007quickAceNik: thats what I'm trying to do, what needs to happen is that the top has the button go up, but only after held for about .6 of a second, as well as down doing down after held for about .6 seconds. Then, if there is an increase in the values read of over a certain amount, scroll up will occur, while the opposite occurs when there is a decrease.
23:26:46AceNikH10_007quick:even the HTML parser path is pretty decent in your build , although cant grasp what the progress bar slider does?
23:26:48preglowamiconn: client side?
23:26:53amiconnThese properties are getting annoying
23:26:57amiconnpreglow: yes
23:27:02preglowamiconn: sounds like a very good plan, yes
23:27:30H10_007quickAceNik: Did I miss something?
23:27:36AceNikH10_007quick:well whats the companies name or the scrollpad , do we have that info?
23:27:46H10_007quicknot on the wiki
23:28:23H10_007quickwhat happens is at the bottom of the pad it gives values low like 0 and at the top it gives values upto 400
23:28:26amiconnhttp://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn.advanced.props.html#svn.advanced.props.auto the last part
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23:28:51AceNikH10_007quick:check pvt
23:29:11H10_007quickit tends to be all over the map somtimes, causeing the up down problem, but that can be solved by avaraging.
23:29:45preglowamiconn: definitel
23:29:46preglowy
23:30:18H10_007quickAceNik: where?
23:30:20AceNikH10_007quick: join here #rockbox-Ace
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23:39:43SoapI was going to start making a "package" of redistributable audio encodings tonight.
23:40:01 Quit Guile` (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23:40:49SoapMy plan was to do the lossy codecs all at the same (320) bitrate, regardless of potential maximum. Not sure what to do lossless at...should I go out of my way to match bitrates there also?
23:41:54 Quit chrisjs169|brb (Connection timed out)
23:42:03linuxstbI think for lossless you should go for the highest compression level.
23:42:11Soapthat was my other idea.
23:43:44 Quit petur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
23:43:53SoapIs there a minimum file size, or even a maximum, I need to keep in mind so the benchmark works properly on all targets?
23:43:55linuxstbFor lossy, I think it would be useful to have a "typical" bitate (e.g. whatever the recommended Lame setting is for MP3, 128kbps for AAC - the itunes default), as well as a file at a high bitrate.
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23:44:18linuxstbSoap: Yes, around 14MB - whatever is free on the X5/M5/H100
23:44:41Soap14MB, is that a minimum or maximum?
23:44:42 Quit blithe ("leaving")
23:44:47linuxstbSoap: Maximum.
23:44:57preglowa typical rate and a "max" rate would be useful
23:45:00Soapahh, don't want to hit the drive?
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23:45:46linuxstbSoap: Exactly. test_codec will reject any files it can't buffer completely.
23:45:57Soapcan do.
23:46:24H10_007quickwere is the code that accelerates when you scroll down or up?
23:47:57linuxstbSoap: Do you have a test track in mind?
23:48:50linuxstbSoap: Also, if you need help with some encodings, let me know. I have an ibook with itunes installed if you need itunes AAC and Apple Lossless.
23:49:27H10_007quickI mean the code that says, say, if button_up is held, accelerate
23:51:13Soaplinuxstb: I was going to get either an A Silver Mt. Zion, or a Godspeed You! Black Emperor live track from Archive.org
23:53:47linuxstbSoap: Sounds fine.
23:53:48 Quit Guile (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:56:56Soapor should I say "a part thereof", as 14MB FLAC will be a choke, hmm
23:57:03 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:58:59linuxstbSoap: I don't think the test track needs to be very big - a 16MB WAV file for example should be long enough.

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