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#rockbox log for 2007-05-25

00:00:35preglowsaratoga: who was it you talked to about wma fixed point code again? i was under the impression you and merbanan were speaking about the same guy
00:00:35saratogawhat about the whole lossless coding process
00:00:57preglowbut if merbanan can't ping him, that sounds kind of unlikely
00:01:02saratogai asked John Paul (IIRC), the guy who worked on WMA before
00:01:08 Join zivan56 [0] (n=not@64.46.2.61.novuscom.net)
00:01:11preglowmarsdaddy?
00:01:15saratogayeah
00:01:18preglowaaaahh
00:01:18preglowright
00:01:32preglowthere's another guy who works on it, directly on the ffmpeg code
00:01:45preglowi was kind of hoping he'd show up by now
00:01:59saratogamerbanan: I've seen references to VLC and LSP as well as huffman coding, I get the impression that its VLC or LSP but not both, but how does huffman fit in?
00:02:09 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
00:02:17saratogapreglow: I searched around and couldn't find anything about the guy, so I have no idea whats going on with that
00:02:30merbanansaratoga: vlc/huffan is the same thing
00:02:36preglowvlc? huffman is a vlc code
00:02:40saratogaoh ok
00:02:55saratogai've never done any sort of lossless coding beyond RLE so I have no idea how most of these work
00:03:03preglowhuffman is pretty simple
00:03:11preglowit's just an optimal variable length code
00:03:15saratogai'm guessing that huffman is the more common of the two?
00:03:16preglowcoding scheme
00:03:18saratogain wma
00:03:40preglowi don't know what lsp is in this context
00:03:43*bluebrother wondered about the meaning of vlc and just realized it :)
00:03:47saratogaline spectral pairs
00:03:49preglowlsp usually is line spectral pairs in codecs, but i don't think wma uses those
00:03:51 Join perldiver [0] (n=say@cpe-72-225-231-80.nyc.res.rr.com)
00:03:56preglowoh, ok
00:03:58saratogait does
00:04:01preglowdoes it now
00:04:02saratogaat least the decoder does
00:04:26saratogai think the code is taken from vorbis oddly enough
00:04:35zivan56jhMikeS: please do post the changes for the fm radio, they sound good
00:04:39preglowvorbis only uses lsp for floor 0 decode, afaik
00:04:53preglowi pretty much know nothing about it
00:05:12saratogaalso, what stereo modes are supported?
00:05:22saratogai assumed MS and LR, but the code has some odd stuff in there
00:06:32saratogathings like "if (s->ms_stereo && s->channel_coded[1])" where the value of channel_coded determines how the MS stereo stuff is handled
00:07:43preglowshrug
00:07:49preglowi really don't know too much about wma yet
00:08:01 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:09:18*a1titude is looking strange at people wanting to know more about a Micro$oft codec.
00:10:05saratogamerbanan: could you tell me anything about how MDCT coeffficents are stored?
00:11:03jhMikeSzivan56: np. I just changed the bit driver only, no tuning stuff.
00:11:38jhMikeSwell, yet anyway...I thought I'd mess around a bit with it.
00:12:58 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:13:14saratogaalso, have we made any serious changes to the codec API since last summer?
00:13:22preglowhmm
00:13:27preglownot anything groundbreaking, i think
00:13:42 Quit zamzon ("CGI:IRC")
00:13:53preglowjust check svn history for codec.c
00:14:00saratogai'll do that now
00:14:05 Quit pearldiver (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:14:57preglowseems there is rle encoding in the mdct data, heh
00:16:12 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:18:45XavierGramiconn: are you there?
00:18:48preglowgod knows how people reverse-engineer this shit
00:19:22TrueJournalsAnyone who compiles and has something other than a H10... I would love to see some other results at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CodecTesting ;-)
00:19:42zivan56jhMikeS: did you have a look at the setfrequency function? it was in the datasheet, but any accuracylevel greater than 0 does not work (it doesn't have error checking I'm guessing)
00:21:19 Part maffe
00:21:22preglowTrueJournals: we'd pretty much need a reference set of files for those numbers to be very meaningful
00:21:28jhMikeSzivan56: no, I did what I did so far to make sure any errors in setting the right block were not an issue. that would be the next thing after a good datasheet read.
00:21:29preglowunless you do all targets, of course, heh
00:21:34 Join maffe [0] (n=maffe@195.159.148.248)
00:22:12 Part maffe
00:22:19 Join maffe [0] (n=maffe@195.159.148.248)
00:22:32TrueJournalspreglow: Why? Since the result is in % realtime... shouldn't it not make a difference? What would be different that we would need a reference set?
00:23:23 Part maffe
00:23:33 Join maffe [0] (n=maffe@195.159.148.248)
00:23:39preglowbitrate will be different
00:23:51preglowyou're using vbr a lot fhtere
00:24:08TrueJournalsI'm using VBR twice... I use CBR twice, ABR twice, and VBR twice
00:24:20TrueJournalsThe idea was, people use the same encoding options...
00:24:31preglowthe file will be different
00:24:32preglowbut anyway
00:24:33preglowwe'll survive
00:24:49XavierGrholy shit! the screw got through the ondio casing while I was screwing it!
00:25:15zivan56jhMikeS: the datasheet is lacking in details, but at least its somewhat useful. I am leaving for a vacation in a couple of days, so I wont be able to work on it, feel free to take over the development if interested
00:26:58XavierGrhaha now I have a second mic hole! :\
00:27:42jhMikeSzivan56: ok, I'll mess around a bit a post it...and enjoy your vacation
00:28:08zivan56jhMikeS: thanks
00:28:22 Join ender [0] (i=krneki@84-255-206-8.static.dsl.t-2.net)
00:28:25zivan56I am wondering if there is a never verison of the LV24xxx datasheet which sandisk used to develop their driver, there is no way someone could make one in a timely manner using the documentation we have
00:29:05zivan56as the current one is actually inaccurate in some places (i.e interchanging ms and s and hz and khz at random)
00:29:12 Quit Nico_P (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:34:38 Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:37:16saratogahow do I create a new wiki page?
00:38:02nlssaratoga: write the name of the page you want to ccreate in the box at the top, press enter and it will ask you :-)
00:39:17 Part TrueJournals
00:39:34 Quit gromit`` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:41:09 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@cpe-70-113-91-140.austin.res.rr.com)
00:42:21 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@84.177.65.99)
00:42:27 Quit XavierGr ()
00:42:45 Quit PaulJam (".")
00:42:49 Join gromit` [0] (n=gromit@ras75-5-82-234-244-69.fbx.proxad.net)
00:48:39jhMikeSzivan56: now that I've never found but they could always get help from a sanyo rep. I'll improvise where appropriate.
00:50:10 Quit ender (" It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is inter)
00:50:15 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
00:53:07linuxstbsaratoga: Regarding changes to the codec API, you may get some more clues by checking the history of one of the codecs themselves. ALAC or A52/AC3 come to mind as codecs that haven't been changed recently, apart from API-related things.
00:54:12zivan56jhMikeS: you can see it in the measuring frequencies section and in some register descriptions on the bigger datasheet, but yes figuring it involves lots of trial and error..all I know is that tuner_measure and tuner_read/write should work accurately
00:54:41zivan56well if udelay is accurate that is, otherwise tuner_measure may be throwing everything off
00:55:39preglowsaratoga: i'm not following irc too closely right now, if you want to ping me, try gtalk
00:55:45 Part chrisjs169|afk
00:56:07 Part a1titude
00:56:28 Join BRi7Xtra [0] (n=BRi7X@c-68-81-211-193.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
00:59:47 Join crende [0] (i=sds@adsl-68-77-42-37.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)
01:00
01:00:01crendeHeyy guys
01:00:09 Nick crende is now known as Crende (i=sds@adsl-68-77-42-37.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net)
01:01:54Journeyhow come when I select a theme it doesn't look as good as on the website? some of the images are missing
01:02:26 Join chrisjs169|afk [0] (n=opera@pool-71-114-145-182.hrbgpa.dsl-w.verizon.net)
01:02:28midkaysome are broken, some require unofficial builds, etc.
01:03:10Journeyok
01:03:15 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:03:27Journeywhere do I get the emulator that will play super mario bros deluxe?
01:03:38Journeylike on youtube
01:04:19Crendei have a gigabeat and all of a sudden, it wont turnon w/out it being plugged into the charger and thats w/ the orginial firmware....w/ rockbox, it gives a warning sayin that the battery is empty and to recharge it and shuts it off....its been like that for a week
01:05:46 Join mpeccorini [0] (n=mpeccori@mail1.theargusgroup.us)
01:05:48linuxstbJourney: Read about "rockboy" in the manual, the wiki, and the 100s of forum posts about it.
01:07:36linuxstbzivan56: Maybe Sanyo gave Sandisk some example code...
01:08:01jhMikeSzivan56: why do you need udelay for measuring tuner stuff? I thought the various counters were fixed time counts which indicates the various frequencies.
01:09:43zivan56jhMikeS: I thought it would be the most accurate way to delay a certain amount of time
01:10:13 Join a1titude [0] (n=Compaq_A@206-163-245-140.swcr.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca)
01:11:00Journeyoh I thought you had to open rockboy adn then the file
01:11:07jhMikeSWell, accurate enought to at least wait long enough for the counters to complete their counts. after that, I think you just interpolate using the count stored in the chip to get the measurement. this works much like the philips IC except the software must tweak the IF counter and such.
01:12:32zivan56jhMikeS: according to the datasheet, with counter method 1 you have to be quite accurate in terms of when nr/w is set high and low
01:12:54zivan56method 2 requires you to know the clock freq going into the chip, which I have no clue about
01:15:00zivan56unless you are referring to something which wouldn't involve any measurements, which would be great
01:15:02nlsmeh, build servers hung again, the bastards
01:15:21*nls guesses Bagder isn't really here...
01:15:25 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
01:15:28scorchedoes anyone have Joely's e-mail address? (the guy working on IR)
01:15:31 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
01:21:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:23:16mpeccorinisomeone up for a newbie question? I submitted a patch and want to start working in the next one before it's commited (and the next one depends on the active one). The last time I did that, I had to move all the source to a backup, delete the changed files, update from SVN and redo all the changes to get the patches correctly generated. What's the right way to do it?
01:24:32 Join Shutz_ [0] (n=chatzill@c-67-170-19-90.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
01:24:38Shutz_Hey
01:24:52Shutz_I have a question about the rockbox software for the Iaudio x5
01:25:20Shutz_anyone there?
01:25:26mpeccorinipost your question
01:25:42nlsmpeccorini: it's kind of tricky, actually I guess you might be best off waiting for your patch to get comitted or just build on top of it and be prepared to do a lot of adapting if the first patch has to be changed.
01:26:12Shutz_I want to play all my files randomly, but some are in subfolders, is there a way i can just play my whole music directory
01:26:15 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@jau31-3-82-239-20-145.fbx.proxad.net)
01:26:37mpeccorininls: thanks, I figured that much but I was hoping there was a "svn merge forked versions magically" LOL
01:27:08mpeccoriniShutz: sure, you can add all your files to a playlist and then play the playlist shuffled
01:27:42mpeccoriniShutz: to add a folder to a playlist look for it in the file browser and press+hold the select button for the context menu to appear
01:28:00mpeccoriniShutz: the select "playlist->add to current playlist"
01:28:17nlsmpeccorini: if you can get a couple of people to test your patch and no major bugs surface it will probably get comitted soon, although don't be afraid to nag a little in here :-)
01:28:18mpeccoriniShutz: once you've added all of them, you can save the current playlist from the same menu
01:28:32Crendesoo does it mean the battery's dead or what?
01:28:50mpeccorininls: sure, I'll wait, I just didn't want to lose momentum :p
01:29:23Shutz_ok, so just select all the media and then add it to the playlist?
01:29:33mpeccoriniShutz: yes
01:29:35nlsmpeccorini: I know how you feel, if you feel your first patch is good, just build on top of it
01:29:39mpeccoriniShutz: finally save the playlist
01:29:40Shutz_Thanks
01:29:58Shutz_Oh and it doesint seem to be playing videos
01:30:24nlscrende: it does not sound good :-/ have you made sure that the connection from the battery to the player is ok inside the player?
01:31:11nlsShutz_: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer
01:31:16mpeccorininls: that's what I did last time, but since "diff" compares to your local repository it adds the same code again
01:31:25Shutz_sweet thanks alot
01:32:04Shutz_Is there a way i can get a media player on there that plays lots of files like ogg. or avi?
01:32:09Crendeyea..like it shows on the screen that the battery is charging and everything
01:32:22 Quit entheh ("^~")
01:32:30nlsmpeccorini: yeah but if your first patch is comitted, it should be minimal work to get the next one right
01:32:33mpeccoriniShutz: ogg are supported by rockbox I think.
01:32:50 Join TrueJournals [0] (n=aimjourn@c-24-12-147-61.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
01:33:00Shutz_oh ok thanks again
01:33:03mpeccoriniShutz: as for avi, you may need to encode them
01:33:11nlsShutz_: no, mpeg1 and 2 are the only supported video formats
01:33:13mpeccoriniShutz: the link nls suggested tells you how
01:33:37Shutz_kk
01:34:40mpeccorininls: thanks, I'll probably look for something else to do while the patch is committed. Perhaps there's a feature request for a game or something like that :D
01:34:43 Join jac0b [0] (n=jac0b@user-1120dm5.dsl.mindspring.com)
01:34:45nlsmpeccorini: in short: get some testers for your patch, nag devs to commit it :-)
01:35:13mpeccorininls: sorry, I'm not a "native english speaker", what is "nag"?
01:35:13Crendelike when the its off, it shows the little plug sign that means it's charging, but its been like that for days and no results
01:35:27Crendebasically, i cant turn it on w/out the charger plugged into it
01:35:30nlsmpeccorini: well we have over 500 feature requests so you should be able to find something that suits you
01:35:48nlsmpeccorini: ask until someone does what you want :-)
01:36:26mpeccorininls: LOL, I don't want to bother people and get kicked/banned from the channel LOL
01:36:46jac0bI can't compile the current build
01:37:01nlscrende: well, toffe is the one in this channel with the most gigabeat hardware knowledge so maybe you should try to catch him sometime.
01:37:14jac0bYou're running this script in a path that contains space. The build
01:37:14jac0bsystem is unfortunately not clever enough to deal with this. Please
01:37:14jac0brun the script from a different path, rename the path or fix the build
01:37:14DBUGEnqueued KICK jac0b
01:37:14jac0bsystem!
01:37:18 Quit kubiix (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:37:18Crendemmkay
01:37:26Crendethanks =]
01:37:35TrueJournalsjac0b: You cannot build in a path that contains spaces
01:37:53jac0boh I see its my home folder
01:38:56perldiverCrende how old is your gigabeat?
01:39:10perldiverCrende have you dropped it recently or anything like that?
01:39:22jac0bhow do I rename the home folder
01:40:55 Part jac0b
01:41:17mpeccorinijac0b: what's your operating system? and why do you want to rename "home"?
01:41:46TrueJournalsJust missed him ;-)
01:42:00mpeccoriniyep
01:42:05mpeccorinito slow typer :p
01:42:14TrueJournalsI think he was talking about HIS home folder... /home/(...)
01:42:22TrueJournalsAppearently, it had spaces in it...
01:42:33mpeccoriniI wonder how can /home have spaces
01:42:48mpeccorinihe must be quite a hacker LOL
01:59:37krazykiti didn't think *nix usernames could have spaces...
01:59:52krazykithe would have had to manually make a silly home folder like that
02:00
02:01:34 Quit Domonoky_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:06:25 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
02:08:32TrueJournalsWhy is the rockbox homepage suddenly fixed-width...?
02:11:51 Quit mpeccorini ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
02:13:11Crendeya
02:13:15Crendeit got dropped in costco
02:13:21Crendeand ive had it for about half a year
02:13:24Crendegot it in feb
02:13:28Crendeonline
02:13:33Crendeso it was previously used
02:14:52 Part maffe
02:14:54 Quit robin0800 (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!")
02:16:23 Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!")
02:22:36 Part Crende
02:23:27linuxstbkrazykit: By default Windows creates a username with a space in (your first name and surname) and by default Cygwin takes your Windows username as your cygwin username...
02:24:46 Join Alissa [0] (i=BluFudge@206.74.74.49)
02:25:23AlissaHello.
02:27:03TrueJournalsHi
02:28:04 Part Alissa
02:30:12TrueJournalsOK...
02:33:47 Join Alonea [0] (n=chatzill@24-117-195-16.cpe.cableone.net)
02:37:05 Join w0lfie [0] (n=samb@leibniz.catalyst.net.nz)
02:37:09w0lfiehey dudes
02:37:21w0lfiestupid question...where abouts do i find the compiled bootloader?
02:38:09TrueJournalsw0lfie: For which DAP?
02:38:20Aloneaw0lfie: the link isn't in the manual? it was for the gigabeats. dunno about the others. Its in the section where you actually start installing it.
02:38:20krazykitlinuxstb, oh, forgot about cygwin.
02:38:49w0lfieit isn't for the ipods
02:38:59w0lfiei'll check the gigabeat manual
02:39:08markunw0lfie: that will not help you
02:39:09w0lfieTrueJournals: for a ipod 5th gen
02:39:25w0lfiewell, i'll find the link and grab the one i need
02:39:28 Quit zivan56 ()
02:39:33TrueJournalshttp://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch2.html#x4-120002.2.4
02:39:40TrueJournalsIt's right there −− ipodpatcher
02:40:19markunw0lfie: which OS are you using?
02:40:39w0lfieoh, i've got the ipodpatcher program but it's wanting a file to install
02:40:42w0lfiemarkun: freebsd
02:40:50markunah, me too :)
02:41:06markunI thought ipodpatcher would download the files by itself
02:41:08w0lfienice ;)
02:41:19markundon't know if it's been tested on FreeBSD
02:41:37markunand I don't have an ipod
02:42:29Lloreanmarkun: It doesn't download them
02:42:32w0lfieit says it has been tested on bsd
02:42:33LloreanThey have to be compiled into it.
02:42:44LloreanIf you download the ipodpatcher binary, in includes the bootloaders
02:42:54LloreanIf you build it yourself, you also have to build a bootloader file to use with it.
02:43:53 Join Alissa [0] (i=BluFudge@206.74.74.49)
02:44:28markunw0lfie: if you don't have the crosscompiler I can build a bootloader for you
02:44:48AlissaOk. I have a question and have read the FAQ's. I am a blind user with a 5-gen IPOD video and all my speech options are enabled. However I have no speech. Is there anything I can do?
02:45:03Lloreanmarkun: Actually, I think up to date ones can be downloaded at http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/
02:45:36TrueJournalsAlissa: Have you downloaded the speech files?
02:45:46CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
02:45:46*Alissa nods.
02:46:00linuxstbw0lfie: Read the instructions at the top of the ipodpatcher Makefile
02:46:00AlissaAnd installed them in the proper location.
02:46:07LloreanAlissa: Did you rename the voice file to match the filename of the language file?
02:46:39w0lfielinuxstb: cheers dude, should have looked there in the first place
02:46:52AlissaNo...Wait a sec. Ok. Let me make sure I'm understanding this. If the voice file is english.voice, what would I need to rename it to?
02:47:23LloreanAlissa: That's right, if you're using english as your language, it's just that many people distribute voice files with names like english-mary.voice
02:48:28AlissaLet me check to make absolutely sure but I do believe it is english.voice.
02:49:13AlissaIt wasn't renamed. But it is now.
02:49:21w0lfielinuxstb: cheers mate, that did the trick nicely
02:52:30 Part TrueJournals
02:54:26AlissaWell. I renamed ithe file, disconnected the IPOD, rebooted and still have no speech.
02:56:07linuxstbw0lfie: You're welcome. Apart from the person who added BSD support to it, I think you're the first person to ask about it on BSD...
03:00
03:03:24 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:05:36 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
03:05:54 Join aliask [0] (n=chatzill@c210-49-190-113.eburwd8.vic.optusnet.com.au)
03:07:07 Quit Alonea ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007040314]")
03:11:00w0lfielinuxstb: ahh ok. it's all i run so i'm glad it worked :)
03:11:07 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
03:11:17w0lfieanyways, i'm all sorted...i have rockbox running on my ipod...i'm stoked :)
03:11:18 Quit w0lfie ("leaving")
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03:16:28 Part Gursikh ("Leaving")
03:21:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:25:04pixelmaAlissa: it's hard to troubleshoot from a distance... just to find out what's going on: what voice file(s) did you download? Are you really sure about the settings and about the proper place and spelling of the voice file (in combination with the right language)? Hope you don't mind these questions - I'm just throwing some ideas around
03:25:18 Join Alldogship [0] (n=Alldogsh@bas3-montreal02-1096682569.dsl.bell.ca)
03:26:04 Quit Alldogship (Client Quit)
03:27:33AlissaOh I don't mind. I understand completely. Hang on and I will get you the name of the file. I
03:28:56AlissaEnglish_VW_Kate.zip was the .zip archive
03:29:18AlissaThis unzipped to English_VW_KATE.voice. Which I renamed to English.voice.
03:29:57pixelmadid you spell it uppercase - not "english.voice" ?
03:30:24nlspixelma: FAT is not case sensitive
03:30:34AlissaI renamed it as English.voice.
03:30:40pixelmaoh ok
03:30:41JdGordonhey pixelma, did you end up getting the rec dir patch giong?
03:30:59AlissaShould it be all lowercase? And I installed it to the "langs" directory of Rockbox.
03:31:21pixelmaJdGordon: see comment in the tracker...
03:31:41JdGordonodd.. I didnt get an email saying there was a comment
03:32:25pixelmaAlissa: as nls just pointed out uppercase/lowercase shouldn't have an influence
03:36:22AlissaAh. Ok. And it does belong in the "Langs" directory?
03:36:59pixelmayes. The directory is correct, the voice file seems to be the latest one available and you said you rebooted.
03:37:43AlissaAnd when I unzipped the file it created a second "Rockbox" directory within the langs directory and inside that is a directory called "langs" and within that second "Langs" directory is the file.
03:38:16AlissaYes. I rebooted.
03:38:16nlsalissa: that's not correct the voice file should be in the same folder as the lng files
03:38:32nlsnot in any subfolder of the langs folder
03:39:02AlissaOk. I'll move it to the main "Langs" directory.
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03:40:44pixelmaMaybe you unzipped it to the "langs" directory? Unzipping to the root of the player should be enough if your unzip keeps the correct file structure.
03:41:03 Part nls
03:41:16AlissaOk. It's moved to the main lang directory.
03:41:54AlissaOh. Well I can very easily move it to the root directory of the player. That wouldn't be a problem at all.
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03:42:57AlissaThere we are. It's moved into the base directory of my IPOD.
03:43:09pixelmaNo - I didn't mean to move it to the root
03:43:31AlissaI've initialized the database (with sighted help) because my files were originally put on through ITunes.
03:43:58AlissaOk. Where should it be moved?
03:45:31 Quit a1titude ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
03:46:58AlissaPixelma! I have speech!! Thank you very much!!
03:47:44pixelmaThe voice file should be in the ".rockbox/langs" folder. What I meant is that if the zip-file already contains the right folder structure (you would see a ".rockbox" folder in it) you could just "extract to" the root of your Ipod and the files should end up in the right place.
03:48:32AlissaIt's fixed. Thank you very much for being so awesomely helpful
03:48:40pixelmahope I don't confuse you some more. But glad you got it working! :)
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04:01:42LloreanjhMikeS: You around?
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04:15:53Crendesorry i had to go
04:16:02Crendedoes anyone know if perldiver ever replied?
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04:16:49perldiverCrende im here
04:17:01Crendeoh ok
04:17:20perldiveryou battery is probably not properly connected
04:17:24Crendeo
04:17:40Crendelike I opened it up yesterday
04:17:40perldiveryou have to do the surgery and see if everything is in oder
04:17:48perldiverah you already did
04:17:53Crendeand I disconnected the battery, then pushed it back in properly
04:18:00Crendebut I haven't seen any change
04:18:12perldiveraha
04:18:46Crendeya
04:19:25perldiverthen its something more serious, i guess only if you can test the battery with special hardware you can tell more
04:19:47Crendeoo
04:19:48Crendeok
04:20:02perldiverwhat happens when you charge it
04:20:10perldiverthe icon ever goes orange?
04:20:22perldiveror its always green, like fully charged
04:21:40Crendeit's always orange
04:21:44Crendeit never turns green
04:24:56perldiverfor how long did you leave it charging
04:25:13Crendeabout almost a week now
04:25:18perldiverha
04:25:27perldiverthats long enough
04:25:58Crendehaha
04:26:00Crendeik
04:26:14perldiverlooks like its a goner though
04:26:27Crendeooh
04:26:35Crendeso should I just scrap it andbuy another mp3 player
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04:27:01perldiverCrende that would be the best option yes
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04:27:16perldiverjust hunt for gigabeats on ebay, plenty and cheap
04:27:26perldivergo for something labelled "new" though hehe
04:27:31perldiveror almost new
04:27:39Crendehaha ok
04:27:47Crendewhat kind of mp3 player do you have?
04:27:55perldiver3 gigabeats
04:28:27perldiverf20 black, f40 and f60
04:28:43perldiverf20 is my favourite mp3 player ever
04:28:49perldiverbut thats just me
04:28:56Crendeooh kewll
04:29:06Crendethe one I have now is an f10
04:29:44CrendeI was thinking of going for one of those newer Ipod nanos with the aluminum casing, but they don't have a lot of space on the harddrive
04:30:21Crendewhat do you think of the meizu players?
04:30:28perldiverrockbox doesnt support 2nd gen nanos btw
04:31:27perldivermeizu looks good but i'd rather have 60gb of space
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04:41:40Crendetrue
04:41:46Crendewell thanks for all your hep =]
04:45:33perldivernp
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04:49:55Crendedo you know the smallest music form ex. mp3,wma,wmp etc that works best on mp3 players but takes up the least space?
04:50:28scorcheit depends on the bitrate
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04:54:23Crendeoh..what exactly does that do?
04:54:32CrendeI'm a bit clueless about this kinda stuff
04:56:42scorchewell, regardless, it is a bit offtopic
05:00
05:01:15Crendeoh ok...but is the smallest bitrate 32? i'm just wondering
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06:06:27Crendeg2g
06:06:29Crendegoodnite
06:06:33Crende=]=]
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07:25:11JerryLangedoes rockbox work on the 80 the same as it works on the 60gb?
07:29:00perldiveryes
07:30:27JerryLangei read somewhere that the read/write speed is very slow on the 80gb. correct? is this for transfering files to the player over computer or when running rockbox?
07:30:51perldiverwhere did you read that?
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07:32:02JerryLangehold on
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07:36:05JerryLangeamiconnThe patch is obviously working fine on all G5s and G5.5s, but sequential writing from a 512 byte buffer on the 80 is *dead* slow compared to all other targets
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07:42:43perldiverwell it's officially not a patch anymore so further improvements have been made
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07:46:52JerryLangeoh ok thats good.
07:48:21JerryLangedoes the logo swapper make it so that your bootload is not supported by rockbox? (like builds with patches are not supported)
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07:52:49perldiveri think the logoswapper just...swaps the logo
07:55:52perldiverthe utility itself or any malfunctions it might cause is not supported by rockbox
07:55:56perldiverif thats what you meant
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08:02:28JerryLange_ GHOST JerryLange flapjacks189
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08:03:49JerryLangethank you pearldriver
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08:10:21webguest92hi there is there any one who knows about ipod 5th gen Video ?
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08:12:07perldiverwebguest92 go ahead and ask the question
08:12:16printfXh4Hmm.
08:12:30printfXh4I assume there are a few e200 enthusiasts or developers in here..
08:12:50printfXh4Just thought I'd ask if anyone knows if e200's USB attaching mechanism works any differently than other MP3 players?
08:13:10printfXh4It takes an unusually long time (on NetBSD) for the device's disk geometry to finally be realized by the OS..
08:13:11webguest92my problem is when i start the device shows me a folder with an exclamationpoint and then he turn off
08:13:31printfXh4Whereas plugging in a USB stick gives info about the disk geometry a LOT quicker.
08:13:38JerryLangesad face ipod?
08:13:57webguest92its just a folder
08:14:08webguest92exclamationpoint = " ! "
08:15:23perldiverdo you have itunes installed?
08:15:54webguest92yes i have , he will recognize by itunes but i cant update ... Error: 1418
08:15:56printfXh4iTunes.. :(
08:16:43perldiverwebguest92 you have to get the latest itunes and try to restore procedure
08:16:52perldiverto=the
08:17:45webguest92i have tryed... thats the problem i have tryed it with many versions ...
08:18:14perldiverand what happens when you click Restore?
08:19:29webguest92unknownerror 1418 :(
08:20:24perldiverprintfXh4 i believe rockbox cant use the usb port on sansa as of now
08:20:37perldiveryou have to start the device with the usb already connected
08:20:46perldiveror perhaps boot into OF
08:22:27webguest92what u mean with OF ?
08:22:46perldiverwebguest92 that was for printfXh4
08:23:31perldiverwebguest92 try to reformat the ipod by right-clicking its drive letter under my computer (assuming you have a pc), then see if it will restore through newer itunes
08:24:35webguest92does not work ...
08:25:01perldiverdid you try to reformat?
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08:26:10*amiconn pings Bagder and LinusN
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08:26:55webguest92ok guys he do some more things
08:26:57webguest92wait :)
08:27:03LinusNamiconn: pong
08:27:41amiconnLinusN: Hanging build...
08:27:52LinusNroger that
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08:32:48amiconnBah. When will people learn to only use 'reply' on mails when theiy actually reply, and when will they learn to quote properly
08:32:52*amiconn annoyed
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08:40:52webguest92ok just nice
08:41:02webguest92it works now i dont know why but it works
08:41:04webguest92thx a lot
08:41:06webguest92byre
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09:07:01LloreanGodEater: Actually, I think the partitions are ~80mb on the 30gb, and ~120 on the 60/80
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09:07:57LloreanGodEater: But I thought the FAT32 partition was supposed to be type B, not C
09:13:58GodEaterI'm pretty sure mine's type C
09:14:00GodEaterI'll check
09:16:02GodEaterooh no - you're right - it's type b
09:16:15GodEaterI don't know why I bother arguing with you - I always lose ;)
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09:41:14B4gderhey computerworld.com lists "C programming" as #6 in their top 10 dead or dying computer skills...
09:41:43B4gderI find it rather amusing
09:42:08midkayB4gder: haha, i saw that too just half an hour ago :)
09:42:29B4gderI wonder what they think the world consists of
09:42:39Nibbierhehe, this is *really* stoopid
09:42:55midkaywhy, magical elves who make everything "just work"!
09:43:12B4gder"everything is java now!" ;-)
09:43:44peturnope, everybody will soon go back to assembler
09:44:38B4gderand I see about every single slashdot comment is about that #6
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09:51:48preglowhahahah
09:51:52preglowyeah, that was amusing
09:52:15pregloweverything is java and php!
09:52:21GodEateror C++ ?
09:53:34B4gderbut then, we're all dying in the long term, you know when the sun will grow larger and eat the earth and so? B-]
09:54:37preglowLIFE is practically obsolete
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09:54:52*B4gder thinks of this great line...
09:55:06B4gder"life is a fucking decease"
09:55:25*petur is pretty sure we'll all have killed each other before the sun grows that big
09:55:35preglowhaha
09:55:36preglowlong before
09:56:16*petur remembers another great line: "life sucks, and then you die"
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09:58:33LinusNi just love the comment on computerworld.com: "You forgot to include "Junior Tech Industry Journalist""
09:58:44B4gderhahahaha
09:59:22B4gdernow that's one fine comment
09:59:36LinusNi better move to Java on my 8051 board over here
10:00
10:00:03B4gderyeah, I'll tell my customer's on that 50mhz nios2 as well
10:00:52LinusNi'll phone Linus Torvalds and ask him to port Linux to C#
10:01:28B4gderyes, it is sooo dying
10:02:12GodEaterit may not be dead yet, but I don't think that article is *entirely* wrong. In the department I work in of nearly 30 people, I'm the only one that knows any C at all. And I wouldn't call my C great.
10:02:45B4gderwell, it may be dying for applications and system programming in general
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10:06:58B4gdersites like freshmeat and sourceforge still have most projects listed as using C
10:07:17preglownot knowing c at all just sounds weird to me
10:07:51GodEaterI guess it depends on the market you're working in
10:08:47B4gderyeah, but when writing something like that you should probably try to peak into a few different areas
10:08:56B4gderin my world not a single soul uses java
10:09:07GodEatersounds like a nice place
10:09:42GodEaterwhere I work I've seen a vendor port their entire application (which used to be mainframe based, and very good at it's job) onto a java platform just for the sake of it as far as I can see
10:09:59GodEaterthe hardware we've had to throw at it to get it to perform well enough is just not even funny
10:10:35GodEaterLast I heard it was running on 128 cores
10:10:48GodEaterand just barely getting through the days transactions
10:10:53B4gderhahaha
10:10:54LinusNimagine a beowulf cluster of those... :-)
10:11:19LinusNrunning c code
10:11:24GodEaterhahaha
10:11:51GodEaterI *think* their SPARC cores
10:11:53GodEaterbut I could be wrong
10:12:45GodEatereither that or whatever arch HP-UX runs on
10:13:19B4gderthey ran on hppa risc
10:13:37B4gderpossibly later ones run on itaniums or other intel things
10:14:20scorchei used to admin around 25 tru-64 workstations...that was interesting
10:14:43GodEaterall I know is that now our CER is basically filled up with the beasts running this thing, and we can't get any more in now because the air-conditioning can't cope any more
10:15:01GodEaterit's like a bloody oven in there at the unix end
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11:13:26webguest34hi all, anybody knows about the new iriver 300series version can play video files ??
11:13:43bluebrotherwhat new series?
11:13:58bluebrotherthe h300 series is quite old and it supports mpeg playback with rockbox
11:14:55*GodEater was just thinking the same thing as is visiting iriver.com now to see if there's a "new" 300 series
11:17:22GodEaternope - the H300 is the only one they mention. So it's most definitely not "new"
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11:35:51webguest34bluebrother do it give a hotkey combination for playbackl a video on h340 ?
11:36:06bluebrotherhotkey combination?
11:36:17webguest34yes
11:36:27bluebrotherthere is no hotkey combination
11:36:32webguest34or other question
11:36:37bluebrotherread the PluginMpegplayer wiki page and the manual
11:36:41webguest34i have a video folder on my h340
11:36:46webguest34but i dont see any video files
11:37:13bluebrotherwell, then your videos most likely have the from format
11:37:26bluebrotheras I already said, Rockbox does only support mpeg2 videos
11:37:38webguest34the files are .avi
11:37:42webguest34and the correct format
11:37:45bluebrotherno.
11:37:49bluebrotherthey are definitely not.
11:37:55webguest34for iriver standart firmware ^^
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11:38:06bluebrotherwe don't care about the iriver firmware in this channel
11:38:08markunwebguest34: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer
11:38:26bluebrotherand the iriver firmware uses a different format
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11:39:03markunwebguest34: this is the only playback we have on rockbox right now, so you need to convert your videos if you want to watch them
11:39:05LinusNnow this is the most amusing /. thread i've read for a long time: http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/24/2010242
11:39:53bluebrotherwebguest34: please read the documentation first.
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11:41:56markunwebguest34: the H300 uses the xvid codec, right?
11:43:13freqmodHello, I am porting a plugin to the new menuapi, but i dont understand how to check if the menu button is pressed (to cancel the menu), i tried to check for case MENU_SELECTED_EXITbut that didn't work as intended?
11:43:39freqmoddoes anybody know how to check for the menu button in the menu response switch?
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11:45:02webguest34markun, i think sp
11:45:04webguest34so*
11:45:41austriancoder2petur: ping
11:45:57peturlucky you I just look at this window
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11:46:37austriancoder2:)
11:47:13markunwebguest34: there is a xvid decoder in the patch tracker, but it's not usable to play back movies.
11:47:21austriancoder2petur: In the next few days I will look into the usb controller of the sansa and try to play with it...
11:47:43webguest34yes i checked it right now...
11:47:50webguest34i was happy to early :D
11:48:09webguest34but the sample movies i can play ^^
11:48:12webguest34thx a lot
11:48:13webguest34bye
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11:48:59peturaustriancoder2: we need a list of USB stacks to evaluate, each with their pro/con and difficulty in porting (and number of devices this may work on)
11:49:52austriancoder2petur: at the moment I have 3 canidates: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UsbSoftwareStack
11:51:37peturI'd like to add that demo philips stack to it just to see how much it is connected to the isp1362 hardware. The code is in the h300 usbotg wiki page
11:51:56markunpetur: it's a wiki :)
11:52:01austriancoder2petur: I will evaluate them adn present my results in the wiki - this okay to you?
11:52:08peturyes
11:52:38*petur gets burried with payed work and swears
11:53:33peturI'll soon allocate a fixed amount of time to this project to force myself following this up closely
11:53:52austriancoder2petur: okay :)
11:54:43austriancoder2petur: Maybe we find other open-source stacks.. as the current canidates are not so generic is I want it or only support usb1.1(HCI)
11:55:24peturyes, we do want to look at enough alternatives that suit as much of our needs as possible
11:56:27*austriancoder2 goes to eat somthing
11:56:50*petur added philips stack to list of candidates
11:58:17peturalso, I think OTG mode is pretty useless. It will never work on h300 (crappy engineering work by iriver), so it would be best to do just device and host modes
11:58:41linuxstbWhat's the difference between OTG and host?
11:59:05peturOTG is an extension where devices can negotiate who's host
12:00
12:00:16linuxstbAh, OK. So it requires two OTG devices?
12:00:25peturon h300, they've connected the hardware pin of that to the processor, so the isp1362 can never initiate the protocol. It's fixed host or device (the latter for the US model)
12:01:01peturthe OTG controller should detect what the other side is, at least for devices I think
12:01:04peturmust read up a bit on that
12:03:45peturthere's an extra pin on the connector and normal devices have it shortened to ground (I think) so it's always device
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12:09:00webguest74hey can anyone tell me how to get counter strike.wad to work on my iPod?
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12:10:26webguest74hey can anyone tell me how to get counter strike.wad to work on my iPod?
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12:11:05BigBambiwebguest74: Please don't keep asking. If someone knows they will answer.
12:11:17webguest74ry
12:11:27webguest74sry my internet was lagging
12:11:36BigBambiwebguest74: My apologies then
12:11:41webguest74so i thought i didn't type it
12:15:25BigBambiHave you had a look at this page? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginDoom It has a section on getting addons working.
12:15:55BigBambiIf they are at all non-standard they probably won't work. There are many threads on this in the forum e.g. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9454.0
12:16:48webguest74thanks
12:16:49amiconnpetur: Speaking about the ID pin - cowon did something quite strange with that on the M5
12:17:02webguest74how do i know if something is an addon?
12:17:30amiconnSince the M5 has no USBOTG, they misused the ID pin of the Mini-B socket as their charging connector
12:17:49petureuh
12:17:51amiconnSo the cowon charger for the M5 looks like a standard USB charger, but isn't
12:17:54BigBambiwebguest74: I don't know I'm afraid, I never use Doom
12:18:22amiconnThe advantage is of course that there is no extra socket, and they can still rely on the charger providing >= 1.8 amps
12:18:24linuxstbwebguest74: Your best chance for an answer is to search the forums - I don't think many people in IRC use Doom.
12:18:58amiconnI wonder what happens if you connect the cowon M5 charger to a device that does have usbotg...
12:19:06amiconn...e.g. the X5
12:19:50petursuck too much current from the host?
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12:22:23*linuxstb sees a reported 12-hour runtime test on the Sansa and wonders what the OF claims
12:22:35*petur walks away for lunch and another hit in the actions stats :)
12:23:26amiconnpetur: From what host? It's a charger, and doesn't even provide Vbus, but puts +5V on the ID pin....
12:27:13markunlinuxstb: interesting results from the power saving experiments on the ipod, don't you think?
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12:33:10linuxstbmarkun: What results?
12:34:07markunhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10645.0
12:34:49markunhe got the sansa to be a bit more power efficient, but the same thing didn't change anything on the ipod
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12:35:49linuxstbmarkun: Yes, I just found it. Interesting that the 30GB Toshiba drive apparently uses 20mA in sleep mode - that would appear to be the difference between Rockbox and the Apple firmware...
12:36:34markunin that case if we power the disk off we can increase runtime on more targets
12:36:44linuxstbWe do on most targets I think.
12:36:59markunah yes
12:37:09linuxstb(where we know how to)
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12:39:30markunlinuxstb: do you have the OF or a disassembly of it?
12:41:11linuxstbI have the OF (it's unencrypted on the ipod's disk), but no decent disassembly, just the output of objdump.
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12:42:13linuxstbIt's also hard for me to do any power-consumption experiments, as I don't have any hardware to measure it. All I could do is runtime tests, which would be painfully tedious.
12:43:14markunyes, indeed
12:43:41markuntoffe was very helpful becuase he connected a multimeter to his gigabeat and I asked him to do a few tests
12:43:57markunthere is a still a weird bug with the Gigabeat:
12:45:01markunwhen you power it on it consumes 70mA in idle, if you play some music it DROPS to 32-41, and if you stop playing it stays at 31 idle.
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12:48:14linuxstbmarkun: Odd... Maybe the DAC initialisation, or is that done on boot anyway?
12:48:40markunI didn't look into it
12:49:13markunhaving a multimeter hooked up would be nice, also for checking if optimisations (like the DMA stuff) are really worth the trouble
12:49:30markunbut overall runtime is pretty good already
12:49:50Nico_Pmarkun: did the DMA stuff save power ?
12:50:34markunNico_P: I don't think so, maybe linuxstb knows
12:52:32linuxstbNico_P: It was slower by a large amount, and the existing implementation didn't sleep the CPU, there was just a while loop constantly checking the DMA status bit.
12:53:00linuxstbSo I guess in theory it might be able to save power, but the fact it's a lot slower means that it's not a sure thing.
12:53:21linuxstbBut of course there may also be issues with how the DMA is setup which is causing it to be slower than it could be.
12:54:53Nico_Pyes I did notice the speedup in plasma, oscilloscope and the peak meter (faster LCD driver ?)
12:55:30Nico_Por am I completely confused ?
12:56:09markunNico_P: that's because the DMA stuff was removed :)
12:56:49Nico_Pso what did it make so noticeably faster ? the LCD driver ?
12:57:44amiconnyes
12:57:57amiconnThe lcd driver used dma, now it just uses memcpy()
12:58:07markunhttp://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=13392
12:58:11markunhttp://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=13393
12:59:04Nico_Pok thanks :)
13:00
13:01:38linuxstbThere was one more bit of gigabeat LCD cleanup I wanted to do - the lcd_enable() code. toffe was going to test that again, but I don't know if he has.
13:01:54linuxstb(it's currently only enabled via a debug menu option)
13:02:38markunlinuxstb: he will bring his gigabeat collection and multimeters at the devcon west, so you can ask him to do some tests then
13:05:03linuxstbI haven't used my gigabeat much recently, but I assume the background-colour bug has been fixed by my commits?
13:05:48Nico_Pyes it has
13:06:00markunlinuxstb: yes, didn't notice any problems
13:10:02peturamiconn: ah, I thought they used the ID pin to know how much current to draw from VBUS. But they use the ID pin as power so charging from USB is not working I suppose
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13:21:24amiconnpetur: They can also charge from USB
13:21:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:21:40peturah ok
13:21:51peturthat's M5, right?
13:21:53amiconnWhat would be interesting to know is what happens if you connect their charger to an usbotg port...
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13:22:42amiconnNot with the charger, but with the port...
13:22:55peturI can't remember the details of the negotiation, but I bet the host will not think it's a device
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13:28:23peturif the cable plugged into the port has ID not tied to ground, the device will assume it's suppoed to be device as initial role
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13:30:41XavierGramiconn: can you please show to me where in the PCB the EL foil gets power from? Looking on the OndioBacklight wiki page the point where sthe EL foil is soldered doesn't give for me any voltage
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13:35:30amiconnXavierGr: It sure doesn't, as the EL foil runs from ~100V 400Hz _AC_
13:35:43amiconnWithout the EL driver chip you won't get any voltage there
13:36:09XavierGryeah but the driver chip should get a voltage from somewhere right?
13:36:32amiconnAnd then the OndioBacklight page won't be much help for you either, as you have the old PCB version
13:36:46XavierGrindeed some things are different on mine
13:36:48amiconnYes, the driver chip gets a permanent Vcc of 3.3V
13:37:09amiconnBacklight is enabled/disabled via an enable pin, which is a GPIO from the CPU
13:38:54XavierGrah so the gpio signal just says to the driver chip to deliver the converted constant voltage to the foil?
13:39:08XavierGrI mean I can't power anything with the gpio signal right?
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13:39:58Zendeferaanyone know how to configure makevoices.vbs to use the neospeech vw paul voice?
13:40:07amiconnXavierGr: correct
13:42:08freqmodDoes anybody know why http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/ipodpatcher/linux64amd64/ipodpatcher from the ipod manual gives 403: Forbidden?
13:42:21XavierGramiconn: one last question: I can't understand where the chip gets the power from. I just opened my ondio and found 2 power sources that were accesible, 1 buttons, 2, near the chip that says "220"
13:43:39linuxstbfreqmod: You should ping Bagder about that - I'm guessing it's just a permissions issue.
13:44:04linuxstbfreqmod: It's in this zip file though if you need it - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/ipodpatcher-1.1.zip
13:44:07freqmodIt's no problem for me, I'll use the 32-bits one, but maybe other people don't like it
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13:47:41amiconnXavierGr: Pin 6 of the SP4403 is power, pin 2 is ground
13:48:23amiconnPin 6 is right row, 3rd pad from the top, pin 2 is left row, 2nd pin from the top when looking at the Ondio PCB in its operating orientation
13:50:33XavierGramiconn: is that chip on the front pcb under the little green cable? (from the right most wiki bmp)
13:51:07amiconnNo, it's the chip that isn't there
13:51:13XavierGrah
13:51:31amiconnLeft side, half-covered by the lcd
13:51:55amiconnThat's the chip you would need to solder in for onboard EL operation
13:52:06amiconn(if you manage to find one)
13:52:37XavierGrand where can you get the GPIO signal, or is it one the missing chip too?
13:53:00XavierGrone = on
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13:54:16XavierGrwell if I can get the backlight gpio signal theoritically I can achieve the same behaviour with a normal led, else I will just solder a LED to the 220 labeled element and have backlight always on
13:54:30XavierGrI know that the result will be somewhat ugly, but I don't have many options
13:54:56amiconnGPIO doesn't provide enough current to power a led from
13:55:25XavierGryeah I would need that signal as a switch
13:55:37amiconnDon't connect anything directly to the coil, or else you put the LTC3440 at risk. It's already a quite fragile thing...
13:56:00XavierGrdamn this thing doesn't want me to mod it
13:56:11amiconnThe "220" is the inductor for the LTC3440 switching step-up/down converter
13:56:54XavierGrwell it isn't directly to the coil it has 2 small solder pads just above it, though I suspect it is connected with that
13:57:53LinusNfreqmod: permissions fixed
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14:00
14:00:14 Quit austriancoder2 ("CGI:IRC")
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14:00:29z421hello!
14:03:49freqmodLinuxN: good
14:04:09peturhi z421
14:04:13freqmod*linusn
14:05:31z421i'm thinking of buying an mp3-player. it shouldn't be an ipod, and rockbox should work on it. jpeg/video/and so on, is not important, but a long batterie uptime should be available. which model can you recommend to me?
14:06:07linuxstbz421: What does "long" mean for you? 10 hours, 20, 30, 40, ....
14:06:09peturthe iaudio M5 holds the record battery-wise I think
14:06:24z421linuxstb: > 20 hours.
14:06:49linuxstbWhat about disk space?
14:07:11z421linuxstb: more than 2gb would be fine.
14:07:18*petur discovers the M5 is missing foom the buyers guide
14:07:30linuxstbz421: Ah, so you're looking for a flash-based player, not a hard disk?
14:07:41z421linuxstb: can also be an harddisk player.
14:08:03z421linuxstb: should just work fine, and have a long uptime, and rockbox support. ;)
14:08:13markunz421: amiconn was able to play back music for more than 50 hours with the M5!
14:08:14linuxstbProbably the iaudio M5L/X5L would suit your needs - good Rockbox support and very long playback time
14:08:23markuneh, M5L
14:08:25z421markun: that sounds fine!
14:09:01linuxstbThe M5L has a greyscale LCD, and (I think) is hard to find. The X5L is Colour, but easier to find.
14:09:46z421linuxstb: i looked for the m5 short before i asked, but it seems thant you can't buy it anymore in europe.
14:09:48freqmodDoes anybody know why mp4-he files works in sim, but not on the iPod?
14:09:57z421what's the L in the iaudio names for?
14:10:04pixelmawith backlight turned off - with backlight always on it was something around 35 hrs. So in everyday use it would be something 40-ish
14:10:06markunpixelma: where did you buy yours?
14:10:15markunz421: larger battery
14:10:18linuxstbLong battery life - they have an extra large battery (or maybe even two batteries, I'm not sure)
14:10:23z421markun: oh, fine!
14:10:41z421i' think it will get the iaudio X5L 30gb.
14:10:52peturhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IAudioRuntime
14:10:59pixelmaz421: there was only one uk ebay store that sold them (mp3direct it was called iirc)
14:11:03markundo we know what's inside the X5L yet?
14:11:19petura bigger battery I think
14:11:35pixelmathey offer a bunch of new ones every now and then
14:11:45markunpetur: I mean CPU etc
14:11:47linuxstbpixelma: Do you have the M5 or M5L?
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14:12:14pixelmathe M5L ... that was the one amiconn used...
14:12:39*petur forgot to have a good look at X5/M5 during devcon :/
14:13:01pixelmamarkun: coldfire
14:13:39linuxstbmarkun: Have you still been looking around for blackfin DAPs?
14:13:56z421and the X5 is supported from rockbox?
14:13:59markunlinuxstb: not actively
14:14:10linuxstbfreqmod: What happens when you play them on your ipod?
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14:14:19markunthis chinese one is the only one I can buy I think
14:14:22pixelmapetur: yeah... I also wanted to have a closer look at the other targets (especially sansa and the nano)
14:14:43markunlinuxstb: or maybe this wifi player, but I don't have any use for it
14:14:48freqmodif the ipod was playing some other file it is skipped, if it was stopped the whole thing freezes.
14:15:51linuxstbfreqmod: AAC-HE files are very CPU intensive to decode - so the ipod will struggle, whereas the sim should work (depending on your PC of course). I can't explain the freezes though.
14:16:02freqmodok
14:16:32linuxstbfreqmod: If you build Rockbox yourself, you could enable the test_codec plugin and see at what % of realtime, your ipod can decode the AAC-HE file.
14:16:57freqmodi'll try that
14:17:32linuxstbYou need to add test_codec.c to apps/plugins/SOURCES, and also add it to apps/plugins/viewers.config (I just copy one of the WAV lines)
14:17:38freqmod*i get segmetation fault when an he-aac is finished, and a new one is started on the sim too
14:17:53freqmod(GDB: 6 functions in stack, only ??)
14:18:12linuxstbIt doesn't surprise me, as I doubt anyone has tested he-aac.
14:18:38*linuxstb wonders how well the gigabeat would cope with them
14:18:46*markun too
14:22:28markunlinuxstb: why does it need to be added to viewer.config? Doesn't 'open with' work?
14:22:28amiconnz421: The M5L is still sold by a UK ebay shop, mp3direct
14:23:10freqmod"Read failed. Plugin returned error"
14:23:12markunlinuxstb: or will it not be included as a viewer otherwise?
14:24:24linuxstbmarkun: Yes, it will just be in the normal plugins folder otherwise.
14:24:41z421is the video playback supported on the x5?
14:24:49linuxstbYes
14:24:53z421amiconn: thank's found. :)
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14:25:46freqmodi get read failed with .ogg's and .mp4's
14:26:54boris85hello
14:26:54linuxstbBut other files are working?
14:27:02freqmodnot tested
14:27:13freqmodmp3's segfault on sim x86-64
14:27:25linuxstbYes, that's a known bug
14:27:25boris85DerPapst: my rockbox is now working
14:27:54linuxstbAre the read failures in the sim or on your ipod?
14:28:03freqmodsim
14:28:37boris85copied every single iPod_Control file out of the player, formated it, using iTunes, windows didn't want to do it, even under cmd.exe, so i restored it, and put everything back in.
14:28:48boris85it's now happily playing
14:28:49freqmodread(...)=1
14:29:02boris85well bye and thank you.
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14:29:19*nls goes to have an exam, wee :-/ gotta love 'em in the friday evening...
14:30:07*petur wonders what students complain about. Wait until you're working.... :p
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14:30:31*linuxstb also seemed to have more money when he was a student - maybe he just wasn't spending enough...
14:30:42peturlol
14:32:58markunlinuxstb: 580% realtime for a q3 ogg vorbis file on my F40, I'm sure we can do better :)
14:33:53desowinwith such fast cpu ;-)
14:34:15freqmodlinuxstb:On the ipod it just displays "Loading..."
14:34:32z421markun: which player is that?
14:34:41markunz421: Gigabeat F40
14:35:11markunbut it only has between 16 and 20 hours runtime, so I don't think it's something you are looking for
14:35:14amiconndesowin: You mean with such a boooring cpu...
14:35:41markunz421: and it's mainly nice because it has a good screen and CPU to watch videos, which you don't care about
14:35:57z421markun: no, i was just interested which device it is. :)
14:36:20markunbut I like it a lot :)
14:36:27linuxstbfreqmod: Maybe Lear would be interested in looking at your file - he's the only person who's shown an interest in the AAC decoder so far.
14:36:41pixelmamarkun: what runtime do you ger with mainly music playback?
14:36:47pixelma*get
14:36:58markunpixelma: I never did any proper test
14:37:20markunI think I use it for something like 10 hours before I hook it up to a charger
14:38:28freqmodmaybe, i have tested 2 files created with "wine <path>/neroAacEnc.exe -q 0.15 -if tmpvid.wav -of tmpvid.mov" then "MP4Box -add tmpvid.mov outfile.mp4"
14:39:21linuxstbNero's encoder can't create .mp4 directly?
14:40:42freqmodi haven't tried as it is files extracted from music videos that i recode, and then i need to mux both NeroAAC and x264
14:41:11 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
14:41:40linuxstbI've just downloaded it, and according to the -help, the output format is MP4 - so tmpvid.mov should be a .mp4 file IIUC.
14:42:10freqmodwhen you write a .mp4 file it writes a mp4 file, when you write a .mov file it writes raw aac (that mp4box understands)
14:42:37linuxstbOK, so the -help is wrong...
14:44:07freqmodi think so
14:45:18linuxstbHmm, I've just tried your command-line, and the output is definitely an MP4 file...
14:45:24freqmodok
14:45:38linuxstbThis is the "Feb 16 2007" version of neroAacEnc.exe
14:45:44linuxstbSorry, Feb 12
14:45:53freqmodahh, maybe it is mp4 box who is picky about the extensions
14:46:52linuxstbAnd the output file plays fine in the ipod sim (Linux x86 32-bit). It's a 35kbps file.
14:46:56freqmodi see it with this version to
14:46:57freqmodo
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14:47:04markunI have not been able to find a AAC-HE file yet on our network
14:47:17markunsome AAC-LC file decoded at 477% realtime
14:47:31linuxstbmarkun: If you have Wine (or Windows..), you can download the encoder here - http://www.nero.com/nerodigital/eng/down-ndaudio.php
14:47:49linuxstbJust unzip it, and you get the .exe files.
14:48:01markunlinuxstb: I'll start compiling wine :)
14:48:30*linuxstb is quite impressed with the quality of the 35kbps file
14:48:56freqmodnero aac was the best in a 48kbps hydrogrenaudio codec comparision
14:49:06freqmod* listening test
14:49:16markunlinuxstb: can you run test_codec on your Gigabeat?
14:49:21linuxstbAnd the encoder is extremely fast as well.
14:49:50linuxstbmarkun: Not at the moment
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14:53:01freqmodi got an MP4 metadata error. errno 0, length 0, frequency 0, filesize 1153092
14:53:19linuxstbIn the sim?
14:53:24freqmodyes
14:53:31freqmodand it doesn't work on targe
14:53:31freqmodt
14:53:32linuxstbI guess it's a 64-bit issue.
14:53:41freqmodmay be
14:54:07linuxstbI just did "wine neroAacEnc.exe -q 0.15 -if test.wav -of test.mp4" and the mp4 file plays fine.
14:54:31linuxstb(in the sim, I haven't tried a target)
14:54:42jac0bthe latest sd-card patch is not available in flyspray
14:55:08markunlinuxstb: I also get a stack overflow
14:55:47markunon target
14:55:49freqmodthe files works when i run them trough MP4box
14:55:54freqmod(in sim)
14:58:19*linuxstb shrugs
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14:59:27Ziderhas anyone looked into support on the iRiver S10 yet?
14:59:44Ziderthe bastards uses a proprietary playlist format :/
14:59:44markunZider: not exactly no
15:00
15:00:13 Part norbusan
15:00:25Zidermarkun: guess all I can do is wait and hope then ;)
15:00:34markunZider: or contribute
15:00:41markunor try at least :)
15:00:43Zidermarkun: with what?
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15:00:58markunZider: start by taking pictures of the mainboard of the S10
15:01:04markunso we can identify the chips
15:01:23Ziderouch :\
15:01:47markunis it hard to open?
15:01:53Ziderno screws
15:01:58markunglue!?!
15:02:03Ziderhave no idea
15:02:15 Nick datachild is now known as datachild\party (i=krebb@har.en.prickig.cykel.biz)
15:02:17markunmaybe their is some clicking mechanism
15:02:17GodEateruse an ipod opening tool to find out
15:02:29markunGodEater: what does this tool do?
15:02:29aliaskor a hammer
15:02:30ZiderGodEater: and where would I get one? ;)
15:02:41linuxstbor gravity and a concrete floor...
15:02:53GodEatermarkun, it's just a plastic thing with a thin edge to squeeze between the joins on an ipod
15:03:03GodEaterthey come with replacement ipod batteries usually
15:03:22Zidermarkun: the player is basically a bottom part with volume +/- and power button, and the top part is a 4-way button with an OLED in the middle
15:03:23GodEaterbut I expect you can acquire them on their own if you look hard enough
15:03:38Zidermarkun: no screws and no obvious place to "crack" it open
15:03:46markunhm
15:03:57markunLet's google a bit, maybe we find something
15:04:02aliaskI bet magic holds it together
15:04:09Zideraliask: probably
15:04:12freqmodknives could work to if you are careful. (i have opened an ipod, and a radio with a swiss army knife)
15:04:12GodEaterZider: you could start by taking hi res pics of the case :)
15:04:27GodEaterwe might spot a place to try opening it from
15:04:41amiconnFlathead screwdrivers are usually helpful, if one doesn't mind some occasional scratches
15:05:25GodEaterhttp://www.everythingusb.com/iriver_s10_1gb.html <−− second pic down
15:05:32GodEaterlooks like a join there
15:05:34linuxstbAnd http://www.themp3players.com/archives/2006/10/whats-inside-iriver-s10/
15:05:50ZiderGodEater: http://images.webhallen.com/bilder/screens/738/73850_4.jpg http://images.webhallen.com/bilder/screens/738/73850_1.jpg there's two good official ones
15:05:53markunZider: very different from the U10? http://mp3.zol.com.cn/29/294514.html
15:06:17linuxstbA review I read said the UI was almost identical to the U10 and Clix - so I would guess it's the same architecture...
15:06:38GodEaterthat looks easy enough to prise apart
15:06:48Zidermarkun: yes, no battery compartment :P
15:06:49markunlinuxstb: yes, again these samsung ARM cpus
15:07:30GodEaterwe could really use a mole at samsung
15:07:32GodEater=/
15:07:35Ziderhttp://www.iriverfans.com/imgpic/0610/s10chip/2.jpg
15:07:54Ziderhttp://www.iriverfans.com/imgpic/0610/s10chip/1.jpg
15:07:55Zider:D
15:08:00linuxstbZider: A start would be to collect all these links and lists of components and add them to the Rockbox wiki.
15:08:01Zidersomeone already opened it
15:08:46markunlinuxstb: btw, I wasn't able to decrypt the U10 and Clix firmwares, I guess the S10 won't work either
15:09:11markunZider: if you make a wiki account we can give you write access
15:09:39ZiderI have no idea how to work wikis
15:09:53GodEaterno time like the present to learn
15:09:56ZiderI'm wiki incompatible ;)
15:10:21Ziderwell it would have to be another present.. this present I need to clean up my apartment..
15:10:44linuxstbZider: You click on the "edit" button and type...
15:11:24markunZider: but new rockbox targets are always welcome
15:11:39markunit just takes a lot of time from people who want it to happen
15:12:36GodEaterlinuxstb: very peculiar post in the plugins/viewers forum...
15:12:54markunZider: if you remember today's date you can always find the links to all this S10 info again in the IRC logs
15:15:35Zidermarkun: or I just google it again.. ;)
15:15:42markunor that yes
15:17:31Ziderwell, I gotta go.. cya!
15:18:11markunbye
15:18:25markunlinuxstb: so, should I increase the stack? (and how)
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15:21:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:29:23linuxstbmarkun: The codec stack is defined in playback.c - you should be able to increase it easily
15:29:31daurnimatorhi
15:29:54linuxstbmarkun: If you want to use test_codec, you may have to change the size in there as well - I can't recall if it's hard-coded or not.
15:31:20daurnimatorwhats new in the world of a rocking box?
15:32:07 Quit daurn (Connection timed out)
15:32:43linuxstbSupport for the 80GB ipod video is the week's headline.
15:34:17daurnimatornice
15:34:30daurnimatordid anyone ever get that hdd in another player?
15:35:15markunI don't think we have another player with a ZIF connector
15:35:16linuxstbI don't think so - I think the ipod video uses a ZIF connector, and most other Rockbox targets don't.
15:35:58linuxstbI think we're pretty certain that it's an issue with the firmware in the drive, so the same problem would happen elsewhere. But other Toshiba 80GB drives are fine.
15:41:51daurnimatorare there 40gb single platters yet?
15:46:38 Quit jac0b ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]")
15:46:42markunlinuxstb: I doubled the stack size but that didn't help. Then I tried time 16 and that worked. But the test_codec still gives a stack overflow.
15:47:16markunbut I don't think it's hardcoded, so I don't understand why
15:47:54 Quit petur ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
15:48:16linuxstbmarkun: I'm not sure...
15:48:39markuncodec_stack_size = rb->threads[i].stack_size;
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15:49:28linuxstbWhat about the buffer that holds the copy of the codec stack?
15:49:37linuxstb(in test_codec)
15:50:57markunseems to use this value
15:51:08markunaudiobuf = codec_stack_copy + codec_stack_size;
15:51:54markunat least your test file plays > 100% realtime
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16:00
16:00:24JavacatAre there any sort of sync programs for rockbox?
16:00:41Javacateg, set the time, sync rockcalendar with outlook, scrobble the log
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16:03:27markunJavacat: no
16:03:38Javacatok
16:04:01markundo you want to create one?
16:04:03linuxstbJavacat: Planning on writing one?
16:04:05linuxstb;)
16:04:06Javacatyeh :p
16:04:08Javacat:D
16:04:20linuxstbRockbox Utility could be expanded for that...
16:04:47markunlinuxstb: we keep asking the same questions :)
16:04:48 Quit webguest94 (Client Quit)
16:04:51JavacatI'll have a go at doing the outlook thing, but I won't be able to start it for about a week
16:04:55linuxstbmarkun: I'll just go away... ;)
16:05:05markunnot needed, I'm going now
16:05:28markunneed to do some shopping before my girlfriend gets here
16:05:32*linuxstb starts work on switching A and SELECT in the gigabeat's WPS
16:05:39markunNO!!
16:05:51linuxstb:)
16:05:52markunchange the Archos Recorder buttons while you are at it
16:06:04linuxstbWhy is that?
16:06:29markunbecause it uses the same 'logic' as the gigabeat button mappings
16:06:57markun'play' is in the center and pauses, the 'on' button switches between file tree and WPS
16:08:06markunLlorean wanted to change the gigabeat layout because it was not consistent with the iriver. I wonder what he will say if I change the iriver button layout because it's not consistent with the recorder and gigabeat ;)
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16:10:05bionadehelo
16:10:10markunhi bionade
16:10:30linuxstbmarkun: The physical button layout on the gigabeat is almost identical to the iriver though....
16:11:16markunlinuxstb: yes, but very different labels
16:11:34linuxstbmarkun: I'm not going to try and convince you...
16:11:51bionadenow i know, this question is not rockbox related, but i'm not sure where else to ask. i have a mp3 player and would like to extract the firmware from it. there is a windows exe that will play a new firmware onto the device, so I assume, that there is a special protocol through USB that tells the mp3 player that now it doesnt write on the data flash, but rather on the firmware rom. can one somehow learn more about such thing or is there generally a d
16:12:58linuxstbbionade: I didn't see the end of your question (it was cut off), but the firmware upgrade procedure depends on the player. But I think most of the time they just write to the disk via UMS.
16:13:32linuxstb(and the firmware then spots an available upgrade the next time you boot and installs it, if required)
16:14:31XavierGrmarkun: I think that you are the only one that likes the current keymaps of Gigabeat
16:14:38markunlinuxstb: I'm still not sure if it should be changed. In face in the beginning I used the iriver convention, but after many requests from the mygigabeat people I tried their change and really liked it
16:14:48markunXavierGr: thanks, you make me feel special :)
16:14:49*linuxstb wonders if Saratoga is going to add the same WMA message as mplayer uses - "Everything done. Thank you for downloading a media file containing proprietary and patented technology."
16:14:55XavierGrmarkun: hehe
16:15:37markunXavierGr: I think it's mainly the iriver users which have trouble getting used to the gigabeat because there are button in similar positions (but with very different labels)
16:15:54markunbut then again, I also came from the iriver h120
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16:15:55bionadelinuxstb: so ums is a protocol on top of usb and when the player notices it's being talked to in ums it writes those things to the firmware rom? so it knows where to write the update.
16:16:09markunbionade: no, not really
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16:16:21markunnormally the firmware just looks on the HDD if there is a firmware file or not
16:16:30linuxstbbionade: UMS is a simple protocol which just gives the host computer access to the hard disk at the sector level.
16:16:31markun... firmware update file ...
16:16:37XavierGrmarkun: most targets (not only irivers) have the same layout up or down (eg ondio that I have)
16:16:49XavierGrgigabeat really stands out on the keymaps
16:16:57markunand the recorder :)
16:17:14XavierGrrecorder has the same layout as gigabeat?
16:17:24markunwell, it has the pause button in the center
16:17:32markunwhich is what the discussion is mainly about
16:17:34bionadelinuxstb: but how is the difference being made between the medium where the music lies and the medium where the firmware resides?
16:18:24markunXavierGr: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-recorder/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-170003
16:18:27XavierGrmarkun: lets change it then :P
16:18:31linuxstbbionade: That depends on the player. All players will have some firmware in flash ROM, and most players also have some firmware on the disk. This can just be as simple as a normal file in the root of the main FAT32 partition.
16:18:56 Quit aliask ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007040314]")
16:19:22linuxstbbionade: Other players have a special partition (without a filesystem) where the firmware is stored.
16:19:34markunbionade: which player are we talking about?
16:20:02linuxstbbionade: The first thing you could do is to analyse the disk layout and see if you can find the firmware.
16:20:21bionadelinuxstb: as far as i have noticed on my player (grundig mpaxx mp 600) it does not have the firmware on the main fat32 partition.
16:20:41linuxstbDoes the disk have any other partitions?
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16:21:42bionadei found some document stating that the firmware is supposed to be in a special rom, not on the hdd. how do I find out about other partitions? when connecting the device to my pc I only see this one.
16:21:56linuxstbbionade: When you upgrade the firmware, can you tell if the upgrade happen whilst connected to the computer, or does it happen after you disconnect?
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16:22:36XavierGrlol I just realised that linuxstb's suggestion to change the keymap was a joke :)
16:22:37bionadelinuxstb: to be honest i have not done the update, because the program necessary to do the update is for windows and I dont have windows :(
16:22:57linuxstbXavierGr: The joke is that I want to change it, and am waiting for markun to disappear so I can....
16:23:03markunbionade: does you OS have some windows emulation? maybe wine?
16:23:06XavierGryeah, got that now
16:23:32bionademarkun: it does. you're right. I could try it via wine.
16:23:37markunXavierGr: he had his chance when I was half drunk at the devcon
16:23:44linuxstbbionade: Are you on Linux?
16:23:48bionadelinuxstb: yes
16:23:52XavierGrmarkun: you were drunk? LOL
16:23:58markunnot really
16:24:01BigBambilinuxstb: GO GO GO!
16:24:03linuxstb"fdisk" will show you information about the partition layout on the disk.
16:24:16bionadei will try it right away
16:24:16linuxstbBigBambi: I think markun has the right to decide...
16:24:16XavierGrmarkun: fuzzy head?
16:24:26markunXavierGr: "starting to feel the effects" :)
16:24:52BigBambilinuxstb: Damn! :)
16:24:54markunlinuxstb: maybe I should hold another forum poll, but I'm afraid for the outcome ;)
16:25:04BigBambimarkun: You know I'm right... :)
16:25:13linuxstbBigBambi: But with small/cheap flash-based players like your grundig, I think the firmware is normally in flash ROM, rather than the disk.
16:25:14XavierGrmarkun: I am surprised, you were sharing 4 beers with 8 persons and you started to feel dizzy :P
16:25:27XavierGr(numbers may vary I didn't count :P )
16:25:29BigBambilinuxstb: not me..
16:25:37markunand those poor recorder guys who will have to adapt to our new rules after all those years..
16:25:48linuxstbBigBambi: Pass it on to bionade....
16:25:52BigBambiaha
16:26:34BigBambimarkun: so it is iriver and iaudio vs gigabeat and recorder?
16:26:53linuxstbmarkun: The difference with the recorder is that the center button has PLAY/PAUSE written on it. On the other targets, PLAY/PAUSE is in a different place.
16:27:02markunXavierGr: it was not exactly an equal sharing, and sometimes I suspect that my weight of aound 57 kilos also helps me to get drunk quicker
16:27:19XavierGr:O 57 kilos?! my god
16:27:23markunlinuxstb: and the Gigabeat doesn't have a play/pause button
16:27:35linuxstbmarkun: A has been assigned that role...
16:27:39BigBambimarkun: Exactly, so it is an arbitrary choice
16:27:44markunlinuxstb: damn ;)
16:27:51markunI feel like I'm starting to loose
16:28:08XavierGrmarkun: you are not from ethiopia right? :)
16:28:13BigBambiI don't care which button is which, just that a button 'fuction' should not swap in different screens
16:28:20markunXavierGr: how did you guess!
16:28:31markunmaybe the beard gave it away?
16:28:32XavierGrwhat is your height again?
16:28:37BigBambi*function even
16:28:42markun(which I might shave off this weekend..)
16:29:00markunXavierGr: 176 I think, but my passport says 178
16:29:14bionadelinuxstb: it actually says something about 4 partitions, only thing that's weird is that one of those is in between another. or maybe I am misinterpreting the information. you could have a look at: http://pastebin.ca/509508
16:29:14BigBambiI was quite surprised when I saw the named photo - I don't know what I thought, but I didn't think you'ld look like that Markun :)
16:29:15XavierGrmarkun: (yeah I must stay that you will look younger without it)
16:29:42XavierGrmarkun: we have the same height and I am 68, what the heck
16:29:45markunpeople mostly guess around 22
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16:30:11markunanyway, time for shopping
16:30:12linuxstbbionade: What device did you give to fdisk? It should be something like "fdisk /dev/sdb" (i.e. the whole-disk device)
16:30:17markuntalk to you guys later
16:30:19XavierGrhave fun
16:30:27markunand.. not button changes while I'm gone :)
16:30:34bionadelinuxstb: oops ;)
16:30:37linuxstbmarkun: I promise :)
16:30:52markunreminds me of THHGTTG
16:30:52bionadelinuxstb: it's just one fat16 partition.
16:31:00BigBambimarkun: please.... :)
16:31:33markuntoffe82: you came to my rescue?
16:31:36bionadelinuxstb: sorry about that.
16:31:41linuxstbbionade: np
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16:32:21bionadelinuxstb: so that must mean, that the thing with the seperate medium is true, i suppose.
16:33:15linuxstbI think you need to perform a firmware upgrade and see if you can see what's going on.
16:33:44linuxstbWhilst the upgrade is going on, check the temporary files directory - it may save the firmware there...
16:33:49toffe82markun: what's up ?
16:34:00markuntoffe82: the Gigabeat is in great danger!
16:34:03bionadelinuxstb: temporary files directory on the computer?
16:34:08linuxstbmarkun: Go shopping...
16:34:09toffe82why ?
16:34:10markunsome people want to vandalise the button layout! ;)
16:34:23markunlinuxstb: brushing my teeth first :)
16:34:30linuxstbbionade: Yes. Plus also check the player's disk of course.
16:34:41toffe82what do they want to change
16:34:51linuxstbSwitching SELECT and A in the WPS...
16:34:52markunit's nice to not be behind a webcam btw ;)
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16:35:19bionadelinuxstb: I will try that and get back to you. thanks for the help so far.
16:35:44linuxstbbionade: Are you contemplating a Rockbox port?
16:36:14toffe82linuxstb: so A become play/pause ?
16:36:47BigBambitoffe82: yep
16:37:04bionadelinuxstb: in college we try to analyze the firmware. when i'm more familiar with those things I would be glad to help with rockbox.
16:37:04BigBambiSo button fnctions don't swap depending on screen compared to other targets
16:38:23toffe82I don't like it :) prefer like it is , markun ,it is the answer you are waiting from me ;)
16:38:24markuntoffe82: keep an eye on them while I'm away..
16:38:46markunbye
16:38:51BigBambimarkun: I can only make noise, not destructive access for me :(
16:39:08linuxstbBigBambi: We need to work on them slowly...
16:39:24toffe82no way :)
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16:39:40BigBambilinuxstb: slowly but surely, we have logic on our side :)
16:40:21BigBambiI really don't care what button it is, it is just so annoying that the function of a single button changes within screens compared to all the other targets
16:40:50BigBambiI do my own build with the swap anyway, it would just be nice not to
16:41:49BigBambiright, meeting. Bye all
16:41:53 Quit BigBambi ("Leaving")
16:41:55toffe82make the button mapping as a setting, like this everybody is happy ;)
16:46:07linuxstbButton Layout: "Rockbox Standard" / "toffe82 & markun"
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16:46:36toffe82:)
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16:47:39toffe82linuxstb: mappong the button by user setting would be a good idea no ?
16:48:11linuxstbtoffe82: I'm not strongly against it, but most devs are
16:48:59toffe82why ? for after sale service ? because it will be difficult to explain to somebody if he change the mapping ?
16:49:34amiconnConfigurable button mappings are a big no-no
16:49:43amiconnThey would be a support nightmare
16:51:11pixelmaand not nice for blind user I'd imagine...
16:51:28linuxstbPeople don't have to change them...
16:51:54pixelmawhat if one accidentally sets them to something else
16:52:10linuxstbThen they do the same as accidentally making the screen unviewable - reset the settings on boot
16:52:38amiconnHow do you reset setting if you don't know what button or menu item to use?
16:52:50linuxstbWe would make the reset settings key constant.
16:52:59toffe82at boot time
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16:53:19amiconnNot all targets have a special combo for resetting the settings
16:53:39linuxstbBTW, I'm not arguing for them - I just don't think the support issue is as big as others think. Personally I think they're an unneeded complication in the code.
16:55:35linuxstbBut a reset combo could be added for all targets?
16:56:04toffe82I though that the reset was on all target ?
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16:58:18toffe82or there is any problem on all the other target with bad wps for example ? or wrong setting ?
16:59:02linuxstbI assume the targets without a reset combo are stable enough not to need it.
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17:00:33amiconnYes, exactly
17:01:52*pixelma remembers one time she could have used it on her Ondio (but thinks that with the new wps parser this situation isn't possible anymore)
17:05:00toffe82I think the reset button is a good idea even if you never use it, you know it is here and you can always use it, when you support somebody,if nothing of you tell him is working, just reset the settings
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18:32:37webguest73hey all, i got rockbox on my nano and then using win explorer copied some mp3's into the f00 folder, but they dont show up. can i update the database somehow
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18:51:05use1essA question on the rockbox player.. is there an option to display lyrics?
18:55:20markunyes, I think there is a lyrics plugin somewhere
18:55:20PaulJamuse1ess: there is a plugin to display lyrics, but it is not included in the official build: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=2372.0
18:56:37linuxstbmarkun: You didn't spot my commit?
18:57:17markunyou got me scared for a moment :)
18:57:25*linuxstb apologises for the joke... :)
18:58:58use1essPaulJam: thanks. Is it intuitive like in the original firmware, or can be reached at idirectly?
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18:59:55PaulJami haven't used this plugin.
19:00
19:00:15linuxstbuse1ess: Which original firmware?
19:01:05robin0800PaulJam, any chance of fixing album art patch warning?
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19:03:51PaulJamrobin0800: i will not post a fixed patch if that's what you mean. i had bad experiences with that in the past.
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19:06:23use1esslinuxstb: Apple's. iPod.
19:06:53*markun didn't even know they had lyrics support
19:06:54PaulJamrobin0800: but i guess as long as you don't compile the test_codec plugin there won't be any negative effects from this warning.
19:07:35*linuxstb neither
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19:07:42markunuse1ess: rockbox is not always very intuitive I think, but when you get used to it it works great
19:08:57use1essmarkun: Uh.. I was kind'a talking about the lyrics option, but I'll take what you said under consideration as well. :)
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19:16:32use1essA question, though. how do I install a boot that would let me choose between the rockbox and the normal apple soft?
19:16:37use1essthe rockbox was already installed, btw.
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19:18:42PaulJamhave you already tried to boot the apple firmware the way it is described in the manual?
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19:20:13use1essNo, could you direct me please?
19:20:19use1ess(link, that is).
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19:21:29PaulJamhttp://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
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19:21:44use1essSorry for the bother.. it's just that my puter's kind'a dying on me.
19:22:01use1essif I tried browsing around things would crash. Thanks. :)
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19:25:03robin0800yes you can still compile it ok at present
19:26:12use1essPaulJam: well, I installed the rockbox loader (which is how I get it to load, naturally) −− but I don't really get a choice while it's on.
19:26:32use1esslike, if I want to switch between software.
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19:32:26markunuse1ess: "boot the original firmware by pressing Menu immediately after turning on your Ipod. Do not release the Menu button until you see the “Loading original firmware...” message on the screen."
19:34:19use1essOh.
19:34:29use1essThanks. :D
19:34:43markunno problem
19:34:54markungood luck with your computer problems
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19:35:08use1essOne last thing −− you wouldn't knwo anything about hebrew support, aye?
19:35:42use1essmarkun: oh thanques. It's a box I bought like ten years ago.. I'm waiting for it to raise some white smoke out before it's being replaced. I don't believe in new hardware. :)
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19:36:16markunI know something about hebrew support, what do you want to know about it?
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19:37:34use1esswell for example, I tried choosing the hebrew large font (which is ridiculously small for a reason), the 8859-8 charcode and the hebrew language. while album names (in hebrew) seem fine, songs don't. Also, I can't even reach some of them in the first place.
19:38:18use1esssame deal for any other hebrew-* font.
19:38:41markunCheck this for the unicode fonts with hebrew support: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UnicodeFonts
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19:39:39markunI can't really understand how album names can work and song titles not..
19:39:54markundid you somehow store them with different encodings?
19:40:03markunbtw, this is also useful: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UnicodeGuide
19:41:08use1essme neither, which is why it looked kind'a strange in the first place. :/
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19:42:02markunuse1ess: check the PM's I'm sending you
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19:48:16linuxstbuse1ess: There's another way to boot the original firmware - turn the hold switch on immediately after you turn your ipod on (i.e. before the backlight comes on)
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19:52:41*linuxstb wonders if anyone can help get this working: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7182
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20:08:32webguest68<== n00bie
20:09:09webguest68Does anyone have the iRiver H320?
20:11:52markunwebguest68: do you have some problems with yours?
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20:16:34markunwebguest68: no?
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20:27:34otihhi, my build server is to slow for the serverfarm, because of that i wanna build all models, to have them in ccache ... how to do this ;)
20:32:23webguest68sorry, yes i do.
20:32:42webguest68markun, i am back
20:32:59webguest68i was composing an email for rockbox
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20:50:43use1esslinuxstb: Thanks.
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21:07:57calamhi folks, i've a question. often when i add a new daily build on my e280, i get panic stkov dircache error. any way around this? am i installing wrong, because i overwrite .rockbox, it doesnt seem to happen when i delete and copy fresh, but then i lose all the stuff like my wads, and pacman roms, and have to put them back in as well, etc.
21:08:12calamwhat approach should i take?
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21:22:31calamsansa e280 panic stkov dircache help anyone?
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21:31:35PaulJami thought this stokv dircache thing was fixed in january.
21:31:54PaulJamhow many files do you have on your player?
21:32:01calamTHAN you for some kind of response, lol, no one seems to be speaking
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21:32:24calamdunno, i just installed portableapps to root though
21:32:48calamwill it fix if i delete .cfg and try reboot?
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21:33:01calamtrying now
21:33:28LycoLocohey guys, is it possible to change a configuration such that the now playing screen uses the default font for a theme while the rest of the UI uses a different, larger font?
21:34:04calamack, it tells me i must type a filename to copy .rockbox ?
21:34:38PaulJamLycoLoco: this is not possible with the official build.
21:34:47mr_pinkRe: Gigabeat button mappings: I'm with markun! I think it makes sense to have play/pause between previous and next. It's much more intuitive than having to reach to the side of the player. Swapping power and A has got things just right now
21:35:10LycoLocoPaulJam: so, is it possible at all? By saying "official build" it sounds like it's possible with a non-standard build
21:35:13calamits official, but i copied daily over it, was fine till portable apps
21:35:28use1essHmmm.. how is the album photo display working on the rockbox? I mean.. I have all of the artwork on iTunes library, but it doesn't seem to appear when playing a song. I would guess there's a different method of doing that?
21:35:35Lloreanmr_pink: Clearly you A) Haven't used other Rockbox players, and B) Don't have a strong interest in one-handed operation then.
21:36:01Lloreanmr_pink: It's a usability issue and a consistency issue as well as a "logic" issue. I don't see it being more logical either way.
21:36:04calameven was fine after that, but somewhere along line it bonked, i think i did init and database rebuild
21:36:16krazykitwhat's this about switching the buttons?
21:36:26PaulJamLycoLoco: you could look if it is possible with an unsupported build that includes the multifont patch.
21:36:40LycoLocook, cool - I'll check around for that. Thanks PaulJam!
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21:42:29mr_pinkLlorean: Maybe I'll try patching it to the other way, I guess its unfair to judge without trying first. I'm also used to the original firmware which confuses things, and also has taught me the awkward art of one handed operation with the current layout...
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21:42:51Lloreanmr_pink: Yes, the problem does exist for people used to the original firmware.
21:43:08LloreanI've found that pausing the device in my pocked is MUCH easier now with "A" pausing, since it's much easier to tap.
21:43:27LloreanMeanwhile having center be the "Select" equivalent lets me easily navigate with just my thumb, nothing else.
21:44:05LloreanOtherwise I have to use other fingers to leave the WPS and add songs into the playlist.
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21:45:49calamappairently panic stkov dircache goes away if i delete all files in .rockbox floder proper like .cfg, etc, i guess they get rebuilt
21:46:19Lloreancalam: Do you have dircache enabled?
21:46:31LloreanIt's pretty much pointless on the Sansa, and it sounds like you've got too many files for it to handle
21:46:47krazykitLlorean, is this change on today's build or would i have to patch it myself to try this new way?
21:47:30Lloreankrazykit: Patch yourself for the moment
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21:47:35calami dont know how to enable it, but... autoupdate, init now, and update now i did
21:47:46krazykitthis gives me an excuse to set up the cross-compiler anyway
21:48:02calamno, files are fine, it is working now
21:48:30Lloreancalam: You really should read the manual, if you have no idea what exactly you're enabling.
21:49:53krazykitrockboxdev.sh builds the cross-compiler in /usr/local, right?
21:50:15calamtrue, on those 3 you are right im afraid, i have read it, but may have, umm, skimmed some of it, sry for nubbishness, but it has worked most of the time, and the manual does not state if you turn this on/off, you will get an overflow and wont be able to boot either, lol
21:51:01Lloreancalam: Dircache can get an overflow if you have a very large number of files on your device. Just files, any sort
21:51:09LloreanIt's not a case of "will"
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21:51:36LloreanIt's a case of "we assume you're using your device as an audio player, and some features may not work properly if you've filled it with many, smaller than average files."
21:51:36calamwhat is very large? please be specific, as i doubt i have that many, but perhaps
21:51:42LloreanHow many do you have?
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21:52:55calamhow can i count them efficiently? i have several music folders, and some movies, so not as many files as i could i am sure, and as i say, its running now
21:53:09Lloreancalam: Well you also said you installed Portable Apps to it
21:53:53calamyes, but its not so many files as a bout 3 or 4 albums of music
21:54:11LloreanAre you sure?
21:54:28LloreanYou said the problem started after you installed portable apps
21:54:40LloreanSomewhat suggesting that its installation is what caused it.
21:55:47calami also have had this issue severall times previous, and allways have to delete .rockbox and start over, but then it works for a while, i am pretty sure it is related to the things i mentioned, database rebuilding or whhatever
21:56:02pixelmacalam: you could use the stats plugin and let it count the files
21:56:30calampixel, thank you for that, hang on, ill do so
21:56:39Lloreancalam: If you had it before, why did you say it started when you installed portable apps?
21:56:56LloreanIt's really hard to guess things you don't tell us, so I have to work with what you do.
21:57:59calamas i said, its happened several times before, and i think when i go back after fresh copy of .rockbox, or maybe after i overwrite with daily build, it does this
21:59:30calami understand, not trying to be vague or stupid, just to figure out what i ... I am doing to mess it up, as its obvious user error here, but i am thinking it may be something that i enabled that does not jive well on this player
22:00
22:00:00LloreanWell deleting your .rockbox folder would delete both the dircache and tagcache files
22:00:09LloreanWell, "database", not tagcache anymore
22:00:32calamin OF it says i have 735 songs, but lemme boot to RB to see files proper
22:00:44LloreanAs we said, it's not the number of songs, it's the total number of files
22:02:34use1essSorry for asking again, but how can I see the artwork of an album while it plays?
22:02:53Lloreanuse1ess: Rockbox doesn't have this feature, you'd have to use a patch
22:03:14use1essWhich one, and where can I find it? :)
22:03:22mpeccoriniuse1ess: I think I saw a patch or at least a feature request about that
22:03:28calamstats= files 6313 music 525 dirs 1012
22:03:31Lloreanuse1ess: See the patch tracker
22:03:35mpeccoriniuse1ess: look in flyspray, the patch tracker
22:03:43use1essAight. Thanks.
22:03:51Lloreancalam: How many levels deep is the folder structure?
22:03:51mpeccorinihmmm, Llorean seems to type faster that me :(
22:03:54The-Compilercu
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22:04:46calamall in all, mabey 5 tops
22:05:01calamperhaps 7?
22:05:11calamprobably less
22:05:34LloreanI'd say, remove portable apps, remove the Rockbox folder, install a clean build, make sure to NOT turn on Dircache, and see if the problem persists.
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22:09:11calambut as i said, i have gotten this panic almost every time i add a daily build, i seriously doubt the portable apps did it, i am more sure its either autoupdate, init now, and update, or incorrectly copying of new build, as i say, has happened before, several times, and this is same, but every time i install new build, i go back and reset my settings, like font, and all that, i probably should stay away from the
22:09:58calamhold on, i can test that theory rt no... ill; just do those 3 things to confirm if its them
22:10:04calam*now
22:10:12LloreanWell, the database features seem to work fine for other people, and installing a new build is just extracting it on top of the existing build
22:10:23LloreanSo this means that there's probably *something* different about the situation on your player
22:10:35pixelmause1ess: the AlbumArt page in the wiki probably answers a lot of your questions about it too ;)
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22:10:41calamwhat about load to ram?
22:10:59LloreanWhat about load to ram?
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22:11:21LloreanLook, these features work for other people. That's why we don't have any bug reports on them.
22:11:45LloreanYou're the only person experiencing the problem, so you need to figure out what's causing your problem. I can offer suggestions, but I can't tell you what's causing the problem, because these features should be working.
22:11:58LloreanOnce you narrow it down to something, we may be able to help further
22:12:15calami agree, that is why i am here, and thanks to you for the help.
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22:13:25calamwould load to ram cause overflow perhaps?
22:14:02calami am quite sure i am turning something on that is exceeding the capabilities of the hardware, or of RB on the hardware
22:15:08LloreanAs I said, already, these features work for other people
22:15:27calamhmmm, its not crashing, sry to be a bother, ill experiment to see what i can do to kill it again ;) then get back to perhaps be helpful in some way
22:19:10calamokay, heres a dumb idea, default on enable dircache is off. perhaps i turned it on?
22:19:11 Quit webguest79 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
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22:20:08LloreanDircache should still work fine, as long as the folder structure isn't beyond the range it expects.
22:20:18LloreanSeven folders deep might be too deep for it, but I don't think so.
22:20:57calamsays default is 1000 files in dir browser, i doubt i have that many in any 1 file
22:21:08calamfolder, sry
22:21:10LloreanThat has nothing to do with it.
22:22:10calamokay, another silly question. if icons are plus sign + , a dot, and a circle, does the circle mean the feature is not fully functional in this build?
22:22:32calamor does that denote domething other/
22:22:46 Quit petur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
22:23:02LloreanIt's just symbolic of what sort of menu it is.
22:23:54pixelmaIs that a sansa with 2GB storage? Just wondering about your numbers - quite a lot files and folders and not much music
22:23:59calamhmmm, okie then, cus some themes show it as like a bright green dot on some items, but others brightness is stepped down, i thought it may have benn some other indicator
22:24:22calame280, 8 GB, 2 GB kingston microSD aslo
22:25:46Lloreancalam: You are using official builds downloaded from Rockbox.org, right?
22:26:04pixelmaah... are you using a patched build for sd card support then?
22:26:15calamwell, its workin now, so i think from now on, when i reintsall daily, ill delete everything in .rockbox except folders beneath it, that is what worked this time, so whatever i did, it affected the files in parent directory (.rockbox)
22:26:43calamno, i dont think i have access to sd in rockbox mode
22:27:06calamyes llorean, i am
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22:31:07calam(although i would LIKE to find a build with that feature, but since i cannot code, and dont know how to compile, ill just be patient :)
22:32:01mpeccoriniHey guys, would any dev have some time to test/commit a chessbox patch I posted yesterday? I have tons of other things to add to chessbox and I'd like to work on it during the weekend
22:32:27calamand i would rather be on main channel of build, so if there IS anything i run into that i can report, it would be helpful to the devs and community at large, not a small group only
22:35:31krazykitLlorean, that button patch for rockbox is fs#6920, right?
22:35:42krazykiterr, for gigabeat rather
22:35:44 Part kaaloo
22:38:01calamty all, must split, ill report back if i isolate it, thanks again, i love my sansa with rockbox, and i chose it based on RB support of it largely, so props to you all :)
22:38:19 Quit calam ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:39:38Lloreankrazykit: Yes.
22:44:56*mpeccorini annoyingly nags about his patch to chessbox being committed
22:45:37Lloreanmpeccorini: Why can't you work on the new patch until this one is committed?
22:46:51 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC (Session timeout)")
22:46:56mpeccoriniI did so the last time, when I added the menu, but I couldn't manage to generate the next patches correctly until I deleted everything, svn update'd and reapplied the changes to the files
22:47:40mpeccoriniit kept adding the first changes as if the previous patch was still uncommitted
22:48:05LloreanApple the first patch, add your changes, remove the first patch using patch -R, then diff after that?
22:48:19use1essthat's weird, it feels like my ipod battery is running out incredibly fast. does anyone have the 30gb model?
22:48:42Lloreanuse1ess: You do know Rockbox gets worse battery life than the Apple firmware, right?
22:48:48mpeccorinithese new changes depend on the last patch
22:49:09Lloreanmpeccorini: Yes.
22:49:18use1essLlorean: I assumed so, but I'm not even on the rockbox at the moment. It's just something I noticed during the past couple of days.
22:49:21LloreanBut the only way to have it not include the changes of the last patch is to -R it first
22:49:30LloreanThen mention in the patch tracker that users need to install the last patch first.
22:49:40badsheepythe battery might just be wearing out if its been used a lot
22:49:50Lloreanuse1ess: If it's in your Apple firmware it hardly has anything to do with this channel
22:50:00LloreanBatteries wear out through heat and use
22:50:03use1essbut it hasn't. It was bought like a week ago. *frowns*
22:50:11badsheepyits defective, take it back :)
22:50:42use1essLlorean: I wasn't talking about anything related to the rockbox or any other firmware. just made a note.
22:50:48mpeccoriniLlorean: ok, I'll try that. thanks
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22:50:59Lloreanuse1ess: Well this is #Rockbox, it's specifically for only Rockbox related discussion.
22:51:03 Quit Rick (Nick collision from services.)
22:51:18use1essSorry, I'll try not to mention anything but the rockbox.
22:51:19 Nick Gibbed is now known as Rick (i=rick@pool-71-119-160-247.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
22:51:46Lloreanuse1ess: You may want to go ahead and actually read the channel guidelines then, to prevent future confusion as to why this channel is here.
22:52:43use1essno need to get anal about it, Llorean. I pretty much agreed not to discuss anything but the rockbox. it's settled, really.
22:52:49mpeccoriniLlorean, if you don't mind me saying this, you seem a little to stressed today
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22:53:50Lloreanuse1ess: Yes, but there are other important guidelines, and it had become clear you hadn't read them, was all.
22:56:45use1esswell, I usually don't read long channel guidelines in the format of "don't be naughty" before I choose to discuss something appropriate and legit (in most channels, atleast). I see this is uber-important to you, hence I'm willing to cooperate.
22:57:19 Quit freqmod ("Konversation terminated!")
22:57:29Lloreanuse1ess: Considering it says "Please read before speaking", you might have assumed it was important to the channel as a whole. Please don't try to make this something about me, these are just the rules around here, and they do get enforced from time to time.
23:00
23:01:01use1essIt also says "Please read the following agreement shortened to 5 billion lines" before each program of the win32 sort. I see that you're using the let's-hang-the-man-who-dared-to-talk-about-his-iPod-problems-in-a-line-method, so if anyone's trying to change a direction of this debate it's obviously you, but again, can't we all just hug a tree and remain friends? :)
23:01:22*Bagder hugs a tree
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23:01:54*petur hands everybody a pint of beer and hopes that peace settles
23:04:24*mpeccorini doesn't know why show he be hugging a tree, but does it anyway
23:05:14*mpeccorini makes a huge typo at the same time
23:05:24*preglow sips rochefort 8
23:05:42*Llorean hugs a tree, because everyone thinks he's a hippy around here anyway.
23:05:47 Nick linuxstb is now known as everybody (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
23:05:52*everybody takes beer
23:06:10preglowsneaky bastard
23:06:41 Nick everybody is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
23:06:55preglowpetur: he fooled you and took all your beer
23:07:42*linuxstb gets thirsty and goes to the fridge
23:08:12*pixelma waits for "a_tree" to appear ;)
23:08:33preglowwill have to be someone capable of withstanding at least 20 megahugs of pressure
23:09:08*mpeccorini looks around for a girl to hug because the office he works in is tree-less
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23:10:11*a_tree hugs himself
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23:10:43TrueJournalsa_tree is registered....
23:11:15mpeccorinihe's probably pixelma's friend :p
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23:21:33preglowBuschel: you should never multiply with 64 bit numbers, that'll be incredibly slow
23:21:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:22:02Buschelpreglow: ahh, there he is :)
23:22:30preglowbut yes, MPC_MULTIPLY_FRACT definitely needs two 32 bit numbers
23:22:46Buschelso, this was the main issue all the time then
23:22:56preglowwell, probably
23:22:59preglowi can test the patch now and see
23:24:39preglowbut why feed it 64 bit numbers?
23:25:21BuschelI wanted to avoid type-convs from constants before the multiply itself
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23:29:03preglowworks now, yea
23:29:22Buschelpuuuh... :)
23:29:23preglowdoes this patch differ from trunk for coldfire?
23:29:47Buschelyes, it will make more use of MULTIPLY_FRACT. so, it should be faster
23:29:55preglowhmm, i'll compare
23:30:00preglowi'm still quite undecided what i think about having the decoder produce different output on one target than on others. i think we'll have to decide on a policy for that
23:30:52Buschelyou may decide to use 64-bit-multiplication by default. any user might enable the faster 32bit-option on compile-time
23:31:12preglowsure, but it would be a pity not to use optimisations when we have them
23:31:34Buschel:) you may at least use the -O1 option for iPOD/ARM
23:31:38preglowheh
23:31:45Buschelthis will at least bring +10%
23:32:03Lloreanpreglow: Is it a case of higher quality output being added to a faster target, or is it a case of lowering the quality (from what it is now) on slower targets to increase performance?
23:32:11preglowLlorean: the latter
23:32:19LloreanI'm not sure I like that.
23:32:26preglowthough whether it will ever be noticed is a discussion in itself
23:32:29 Quit desowin ("use linux")
23:32:40LloreanWhat codec is this an issue for?
23:32:44preglowit might look like the introduced error will always be masked away by the hearing
23:32:47preglowmusepack
23:32:48LloreanI mean, we don't have any non-realtime codecs at the moment, do we?
23:32:49Buschelyou won't hear the difference at last −− the additional noise which is added is below the noise the encoder adds
23:33:04preglowBuschel: that sounded more convincing :)
23:33:16preglowif that is the case, i can see no reason not to enable it by default, really
23:33:24linuxstbLlorean: It depends if you count not being able to use other features of Rockbox (e.g. the eq) at the same time...
23:33:42preglowbut it has to be quite true, some musepack fans have already complained to me just by reading the words "lower accuracy" in your patch description, heh
23:33:45Lloreanlinuxstb: Yes, but for the iPods we have upcoming dual core support (eventually), still
23:33:59preglowLlorean: anyway, faster codecs is always good
23:34:06preglowand this one became faster by a nice margin
23:34:07Buschelnevertheless the optimization will lower the boostration, and therefor power
23:34:30LloreanI guess, if it's absolutely inaudible, I'm not against it.
23:35:07LloreanBut if it's something that someone could potentially pick up in blind testing, I am against it, just because I don't think intentional quality decreases in the audio are really something we should do unless it's "necessary" just for use.
23:35:51Buschelpreglow: what is the performance on your Coldfire?
23:36:08preglowBuschel: testing now, i'm having some kernel problems, it seems :/
23:37:00preglowugh, my kernel just vomited on usb
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23:37:12BuschelLlorean: i guess a good option is to use -O1 for the compiling on ARM (same quality, no difference in output, but 10% faster), and give the user the chance to switch to fast decoding via compile switch. this is already contained in the patch
23:37:21preglowARARRASERGGH
23:37:24preglowi now have to reboot
23:37:47preglowBuschel: i got 479% realtime on my test track, i THINK it used to be 469%
23:38:19LloreanBuschel: Well, if you're sure it's less noise than the decoder noise, I'm not really going to object. It's just a case of playback already working, and dual core support should improve that, and lower quality (if audible) seems drastic to me.
23:38:41preglowLlorean: he is one of the original musepack coders, so i assume he does know what he's speaking about :>
23:38:53Buschelyou're right :o)
23:40:45Lloreanpreglow: I'd assume he does too.
23:40:53LloreanAs I said, if he's sure it won't, then I don't object. ;)
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23:41:30os10hello
23:41:37LloreanBut Rockbox is seen by a group as a way to improve sound quality, so things that say "decrease accuracy" put people on edge. You might want to change it to "remove excess accuracy" or some other silly wording that sounds like we don't need it. :)
23:42:04preglowLlorean: i think i'm going to just leave it at default for now, actually, and have some musepack people do listening tests
23:42:19os10austin of dapreview.net. what's new?
23:42:20preglowthey'll nag at me forever otherwise
23:42:34LloreanSounds good.
23:42:51Bagderos10: ipod 80gb support since a few days, other than that not so much I think
23:43:06Lloreanos10: iPod 80gb support, recently fixed audio quality concerns on the Sansa so that audio meets the expectations of users, general all around improvements as always.
23:43:14Buschelgood idea to do listening tests
23:43:26LloreanBagder: The Sansa port now has "good" audio quality.
23:43:31Bagdertrue
23:43:31preglowBuschel: usb broke down completely now and i can't be bothered to reboot. i'll try to find time to test and commit the patch during the next couple of days and i'll tell you if it regresses
23:43:47BagderLlorean: I have in fact even used my sansa lately and it has been behaving good on me ;-)
23:43:50preglowi'm sure dwyloc will give you some numbers too
23:44:09Buschelbut nevertheless: even when using the patch with 64x64-multiplies (which do not harm the quality at all) the performance is +2-3% on Coldfire and +10% on ARM/iPOD
23:44:14p3turos10: we had devcon and are now selling the empty beerbottles on ebay because we used up all the money
23:44:47preglowyou don't do actual 64x64 bit multiplies, do you?
23:44:55preglowthat's asking for slowness, even on arm
23:45:14preglowboth coldfire and arm only support 32x32 -> 64 natively
23:45:15Buschelthe current config is set for 64+64 except for ARM
23:45:51preglowi'll check the patch out in more detail later, i'm sure i'll have questions
23:46:08Buschelok, come back on any question that may rise :)
23:46:21preglowright now i'm struggling with fir filter design and am too angry to read patches, heh
23:46:25os10i'm new to IRC, so please be patient. i can donate hardware and/or assist with testing.
23:47:41Bagderos10: both hardware and testing are appreciated!
23:50:40os10rockbox on toshiba f40 has been excellent so far.
23:51:05 Quit p3tur ("Zzzzz")
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23:52:40 Quit PaulJam (".")
23:52:59toffe82os10: there are some promising progress on the gigabeat S
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23:53:33Buschelpreglow/Llorean: thanks for your time and feedback! just give me a PM on any questions
23:53:47os10sorry, IRC nweb question: red text = private mesage?
23:53:57BigBambiLlorean: I just replied to your comment on http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6920. Does my reply make sense?
23:53:58os10using Xchat
23:54:13preglowBuschel: sure thing
23:54:27os10thanks
23:54:36preglowand thank you, it's always fun to see codec authors themselves involved in our work
23:54:47linuxstbos10: Probably just xchat highlighting any lines with your nick in it.
23:55:07LloreanBigBambi: Ah, if Play already did nothing in the filetree, returning to the WPS makes perfect sense.
23:55:11Buscheloh well, it was fun for me too to see mpc ported to portables
23:55:33BigBambiLlorean: It has done nothing since the seperate remote keymap was introduced
23:55:51LloreanBigBambi: My last remote broke, I've a replacement but I haven't used it recently.
23:56:25 Quit amigan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:56:54BigBambiLlorean: What I probably ought to do is break out my swap A and select in WPS from my implement additional remote buttons. Since the spereate remote keymaps, the number of things the remote can do has decreased a lot
23:57:10jhMikeSLlorean: You wanted to ask something yesterday?
23:57:28LloreanBigBambi: Seems like a good idea, separation of changes makes it a lot clearer.
23:57:51BigBambiLlorean: Will do, tomorrow (it is late here and I am a little drunk)
23:58:16LloreanjhMikeS: Yes, in regards to the state of the Sansa bootloader. I heard the buttons don't work right now, and was just wondering if you knew what the story was.

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