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#rockbox log for 2007-05-31

00:00:02Bagderstripwax: "we" don't control that host
00:00:15stripwaxoh, hm, who does
00:00:25BagderJeff does, and I believe Llorean have pretty much powers on it
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00:01:46 Quit davina_ ("xchat on Ubuntu 7.04")
00:03:01 Quit PaulJam_ (Client Quit)
00:03:25 Part PMM
00:03:41bluebrotherstripwax: you could just adblock that script (assuming you're using firefox)
00:04:09stripwaxheh, I'm not
00:04:30 Join ummon27 [0] (n=chatzill@d149-67-75-107.try.wideopenwest.com)
00:04:38 Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection)
00:04:49 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
00:05:19ummon27can anyone out there help me get rockbox to read replaygain?
00:05:47linuxstbWhat's the problem?
00:06:26ummon27i'm using foobar2000 v9 to scan/add replaygain, but i can't be sure if it's writing it to apev2 or id3v2 (the latter seems to be what rockbox needs)
00:07:14n1swow, binsize increased almost 1K for removing a couple of members in a struct...
00:07:23ummon27i'm kind of going insane by the lack of information that seems to be available out there on the net about how to tag replaygain in to id3v2
00:07:24*n1s scratches head
00:07:41FaemirAlbum Art isn't an official feature yet is it?
00:07:49n1sFaemir: no
00:08:07Faemiri'll give it a skip.
00:08:31Bagderummon27: id3 it wants, ape it does not
00:08:42linuxstbummon27: If you wait, I'm sure someone can help. Have you searched the Rockbox forums?
00:09:19ummon27maybe i'm a complete idiot at searching, but i've spent about an hour searching everything i could think of...
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00:10:05ummon27it's to the point where i would almost be willing to manually enter the values in to id3v2 tags... if i only knew what the proper syntax was
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00:11:12bluebrothern1s: maybe that increase is mi4 related?
00:11:47bluebrotherummon27: it's quite easy with foobar. Just dig through the settings and set the tag format to id3v2 as default
00:11:50ummon27as it is, it seems that no matter how much i tell foobar to only write id3v2 tags, when i have it process replaygain, it still writes the values to apev2. or at the very least, it writes it to something that rockbox doesn't understand
00:11:52n1sbluebrother: what do you mean?
00:11:53 Nick z35_1 is now known as z35 (n=z@adsl-1-20-27.dab.bellsouth.net)
00:12:06pixelmaummon27: the setting about tag types in foobar is under prefs -> advanced -> tagging, it writes ID3v2.4 (just stating v2 there), I don't know about the replain tags though
00:12:17bluebrotherummon27: maybe the files already have ape tags? afaik foobar doesn't convert tags automatically
00:12:26pixelmas/replain/replay gain
00:12:48ummon27yes pixelma, that is what i've tried
00:13:06bluebrothern1s: I see what you mean. Was too fast :o
00:13:34ummon27i set that up to id3v2 only and check the "force settings" option. then i've tried completely removing all tags from a file, and then running replaygain... still no good
00:13:40FaemirCan someone tell me the reason why there are custom builds? Are they just like incorporating extra features, like the album art?
00:14:19ummon27i mean, people out there are getting replaygain to work in rockbox, right? what method are you using?
00:14:24robin0800in foobar highlight files and under tagging choose remove tags
00:15:19 Quit kubiix ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
00:15:29bluebrotherummon27: have you checked the tag type in the properties dialog?
00:15:37ummon27ok, for example, i just removed all tags from a file the way you said robin0800
00:15:53robin0800then assuming you have set id3v2 in settings choose rrwrite file tags
00:16:22bluebrotherthere's no need to remove the tags first. Go to tagging -> Mp3 Tag types in the context menu of the file
00:17:13robin0800lastly do replay gain to check choose properties should seecorrect tags written
00:17:13ummon27i'll have to find an mp3 first bluebrother
00:17:20ummon27most of my collection is ogg
00:17:30Faemir:)
00:17:39bluebrotherogg is a much nicer format anyway ;-)
00:17:51Faemiri need to convert my entire collection to ogg :\
00:17:59ummon27yes, and there is no such option for ogg in the context menu
00:17:59frostythat's why I was playing with rockbox earlier - thinking of switching my collection to ogg
00:18:02Faemiranyone know a good convertor that's free?
00:18:20ummon27robin0800, will try that
00:19:13robin0800make sure rockbox is set to use id3v2 tags first
00:19:57ummon27robin, i just realized, foobar's options only allow for setting default tagging methods for mp3 and mp4
00:20:07ummon27not ogg
00:20:30pixelmaif it's oggs, shouldn't the tags be vorbis comments - and how does foobar handle that...
00:20:39ummon27does ogg even support apev2?
00:20:48ummon27that's what i was thinking pixelma
00:20:51bluebrotherno.
00:20:57bluebrotherogg is only vorbis comment.
00:21:06robin0800foobar claims it can convert to ogg
00:21:23bluebrotherbut, afaik, ape allows you to append it to any file type.
00:22:25ummon27btw, Faemir, if i were going to convert my collection to ogg, i would personally only convert from a lossless format such as wav or flac. if you have mp3s right now you should expect a loss in quality and would probably be better off sticking with the mp3s.
00:23:16robin0800can you use replay gain with ogg's ?
00:23:36 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
00:23:49linuxstbYes.
00:24:18 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:24:51Faemirummon27, thanks. :(
00:25:00robin0800so does it read the vorbis comment?
00:25:56linuxstbWhat do you mean by "it" ?
00:26:30bluebrotherreplaygain works the same way with ogg as with mp3. The values are just stored in a vorbis comment instead of a mp3 tag.
00:27:28ummon27i think i'm beginning to realize where i've been a gigantic idiot in all of this
00:27:36ummon27testing something first
00:29:00bluebrothergood luck −− I'm out for today.
00:29:06 Quit bluebrother ("sleep ...")
00:31:46ummon27ok, still confused :(
00:32:16 Quit Faemir ("I could put something witty here, but no...")
00:32:27ummon27i found an mp3... i check "mp3 tag types" and none of them are checked
00:32:47ummon27how does that make sense? the file is definitely tagged
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00:35:13*n1s hopes someone can shed some light on this mp3entry struct mystrey tomorrow, gnight
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00:37:47robin0800just tried replaygain with an ogg file using foobar and yes it does seem to work
00:39:38ummon27yeah, that was where i was being a gigantic idiot
00:40:09ummon27the problem it seems is that the mp3s in my collection aren't being processed correctly by rockbox as far as replaygain
00:40:59ummon27i'm in the process of undergoing a "rewrite tags" on all my mp3s after setting up foobar to only write id3v2... not sure what that will do
00:41:29ummon27other than take forever
00:42:56robin0800to see what it does try just one file write click it and choose properties the second tab wiill show the tags
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00:43:35robin0800foobar is very fast at tagging etc
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00:44:21ummon27here's the thing
00:44:55Noah0504Does anyone know the best way to sync music under Linux to an iPod running Rockbox?
00:44:57ummon27foobar properly applies replaygain when i'm playing in there
00:45:01ummon27but rockbox doesn't
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00:45:34Fu7urE101so...I pretty much decided not to go back to appleOs
00:45:35Fu7urE101lol
00:45:36ummon27and it's kind of a pain to go back and forth between the two to figure out if it's working on both :/
00:46:12robin0800is rockbox set up properly for replay gain?
00:46:19ummon27absolutely
00:46:58ummon27here's a good question, what would a replaygain entry in id3v2 look like?
00:47:15robin0800not just enabled but told what mode to use
00:47:47Noah0504/leave
00:47:51ummon27yes, i put both track and album replaygain on all my files, and i set up rockbox to use "track when shuffling"
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00:48:11ummon27but i've tried always album and always track
00:48:18ummon27doesn't seem to help
00:48:57robin0800also you can use a wps tag to see what rockbox is doing and even how much gain is being applied etc
00:49:35ummon27yes, i've tried adding %rg to my wps and it shows up as two boxes
00:49:51ummon27which leads me to further believe that it isn't finding any rg info
00:50:11ummon27which leads me further to insanity
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00:52:26ummon27something else interesting, although foobar properly applies replaygain as i'm listening, my theme is set up to display replaygain info in the detailed track info panel, yet replaygain info is always blank there
00:52:39robin0800you can also read the tags in rockbox from the play back menu
00:53:07ummon27i'll try that
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00:56:19ummon27i'm not sure where in the playback menu? settings -> general settings -> playback -> ?
00:57:52robin0800when its playing its a long select choose id3 info
01:00
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01:01:54ummon27ok
01:02:31ummon27it looks like i've got it fixed... i just have to rewrite the tags like i thought
01:02:56ummon27thanks for all your help robin
01:05:31robin0800foobar can do that choose scan by album from tags and after the scan update tags
01:06:59robin0800both replay tags will be written and check with properties before and after
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01:19:36Fu7urE101heh
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01:24:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:26:49maelstromcan I suggest a fix to the website
03:28:24maelstromif somebody wants to download Rockbox they will be drawn to the "Download" label in the sidebar, and since "Releases" sounds more appealing than "Current build" that is what they will click on. Now if you don't have any "releases" available, instead of a page that says "Hey dumbass we don't do releases!" maybe you could just not have that link there?
03:29:33Drumr^^i agree
03:30:07Drumrweems like a temp thing that was done, and was never replaced...
03:30:10Drumrseems*
03:30:26Drumrperhaps make "current build" plurl?
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03:38:49Lloreanmaelstrom: There IS a release available, it's just only for Archos users, and it's a bit old
03:39:01LloreanSome people still prefer to use it rather than a bleeding edge build, though, and those are the only two real choices
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03:40:48LloreanAs it is, people who go to "Downloads" without reading the manual first aren't going to get very far before they have to check the manual, and once they've checked the manual they should know exactly what they need.
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03:59:16saratoganyone know where the id3 struct is actually initialized?
03:59:20saratogaits too short to grep for
03:59:29saratogaor rather where its declared i guess
04:00
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04:11:57chrisjs169what's the chance that a flash chip can't be written to, but still can be read normally?
04:17:03maelstromokay, I just installed rockbox for the first time and wanted to test out the plugins. but i appear to be trapped in the solitaire game which is, by the way inferior to the one that comes with the original ipod firmware (so not a good first impression by rockbox so far)
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04:18:39Lloreanmaelstrom: If you're basing your impression upon the games, you're not the target audience of Rockbox anyway
04:18:46Lloreanmaelstrom: Have you checked in the manual for controls for Solitaire?
04:19:39maelstromnever mind, I was able to escape it. counterintuitively, the menu button deals a new card from the deck and holding down play resets the unit
04:20:12*Llorean sighs
04:20:18LloreanPlease don't misuse "intuitive"
04:20:27LloreanIntuitively, "Play" would play the music.
04:20:33LloreanWhich isn't what you expected it to do either.
04:21:32 Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection)
04:21:56Lloreanmaelstrom: I'd also like to ask, where you got the impression we don't do releases?
04:22:40maelstromintuitively, menu would return to the menu. intuitively, play probably doesn't play music because there are a limited number of buttons on the ipod and they often get mapped to things other than what their labels. however the menu button is an exception
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04:23:05LloreanIntuitivel, "menu" would bring up *a* menu, not necessarily take you out of the game.
04:23:12LloreanMeanwhile the holding Play is used as "stop" in Rockbox
04:23:16 Part Brunellus ("Ex-Chat")
04:23:22LloreanAnd "stop" might intuitively exit, if you've learned the controls
04:23:39LloreanJust as a point of argument
04:23:49LloreanYou're welcome to submit a feature request if you think you've got better controls for it though
04:24:11alienbiker99Llorean how many times has this conversation gone on with ipod controls?
04:24:18LloreanOur Solitaire has been around since before Rockbox ran on iPods (and Rockbox came to iPods before Apple had games on them), and I don't yet think any iPod owner has taken the time to customize it
04:24:19maelstromI got the impression that there were no releases because the page says that there are no current releases and the last time there was one was, quote, "ages ago"
04:24:36Lloreanmaelstrom: That doesn't mean we don't DO releases
04:24:43LloreanIn fact it's pretty darn clear that we have done them in the past.
04:24:48LloreanThere's just not a current one.
04:24:50maelstromsounds like you "did" releases
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04:25:03maelstromor else there would be a current one or one more recent than "ages ago"
04:25:04LloreanDoes it say anywhere we've stopped?
04:25:08LloreanWhy?
04:25:09Matt544can anyone help meeeeeee
04:25:11Matt544pleaseeeee
04:25:18Lloreanmaelstrom: You can't just instantly say 'Okay, we have a release'
04:25:24iPodPhotohopefully i can help
04:25:27Matt544My iPod is stuck on the Apple logo
04:25:29iPodPhotowhat is it
04:25:38Matt544video
04:25:41LloreanMatt544: reset the iPod, and turn on the hold switch, and see what happens
04:25:41Matt54430GB
04:25:51iPodPhotowhat model
04:26:02Lloreanmaelstrom: There are a lot of conditions that need to be met before a release can happen, and those haven't been met for the 3.0 release yet.
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04:26:13Matt544Llorean, thank you
04:26:16Matt544It worked
04:26:38Matt544Well see everyone later
04:26:39 Part Matt544
04:28:19maelstromokay I have another suggestion. in the installation instructions for linux it says "Make sure ... that you have also installed the fonts package – see section 2.2.3 for more information" but the fonts package is actually referenced in 2.2.2
04:28:36maelstromoh and this is for the ipod video manual if it makes a difference
04:30:02LloreanApparently it didn't get updated when the manual was adjusted.
04:30:15LloreanPeople were skipping sections, so some sections were rearranged and extra reminders were put in
04:30:38LloreanFile a bug report for "Manual" and someone who maintains it will get right on it
04:30:56LloreanWell, by "right on it" I mean, "it'll happen when they're around and checking on bugs in the manual"
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04:34:22*Llorean wonders if maelstrom has filed that bug report yet
04:34:56maelstromno sir I am more concerned with getting rockbox installed properly first
04:35:04XbooXis anyone her that can help me out in #ipodlinux ??
04:36:42LloreanXbooX: This is #Rockbox
04:36:58Lloreanmaelstrom: If it boots and plays audio, you've installed it properly.
04:37:23Lloreanmaelstrom: But bugs and problems don't get fixed unless you file an actual feature request. Speaking out in here, when you don't know who's around or their involvement with the project, isn't likely to get things changed.
04:37:58LloreanIt's like walking out into the street and shouting "Hey, my Taxes suck!". Everyone who hears you, in theory, is involved with taxes in some way, but that doesn't guarantee that they can do anything about it, or if they can, that they'll remember you by the time they get to work.
04:39:06maelstromit boots, and it probably plays audio (don't know because it doesn't see my songs), but the menu text is so small it is nearly unreadable (i don't have great eyesight)
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04:39:27LloreanWell, assuming you installed the extra fonts, that's an easy change.
04:39:38LloreanAnd it'll see any songs that are on the device, and in a compatible format.
04:39:42XbooXLlorean: yes i know this is #Rockbox and thats why im not asking my ipod linux question(s) in here, but i know there are a few people that help out in both channels, i was just checking, sorry
04:39:48Matt544Does anyone know how you can load the original iPod firmware while still having Rockbox installed?
04:39:53LloreanUsually "doesn't see my songs" actually means "I don't know where my songs are located on the disk" or "I haven't updated the database yet"
04:40:04LloreanMatt544: Same instructions I gave you last time you were in the room
04:40:14Matt544ok then what do i do
04:40:18Matt544boot into disk mode?
04:40:38LloreanMatt544: Huh?
04:40:49LloreanMatt544: If you restart the iPod, and turn the hold switch on, it goes into the apple firmware...
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04:40:56Matt544OK after I boot up, see the Apple logo........
04:40:58Matt544really?
04:41:01Matt544hold on let me see
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04:54:14maelstromso I see "Recording" in the menu. what do I have to do to get that to work, i assume it's not as simple as hooking a microphone into the headphone jack is it ? (the manual seems to be incomplete/unfinished and doesn't explain anything about recording)
04:54:43LloreanRecording is an experimental feature at the moment
04:55:03LloreanOnce you enter the recording menu, audio playback won't work until you reboot the iPod, and for 5/5.5G iPods, you need an adapter for the dock connector
04:55:55maelstromoh I see
04:57:38LloreanYou also can't adjust the recording gain, which for most situations makes it nearly useless
05:00
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05:07:55Tachikomacan you all see me?
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05:12:26__Tachikoma__question, if i am on linux and i was to format the ipod how would i go about doing that?
05:13:11JdGordonmount it, then format?
05:13:18__Tachikoma__ok
05:13:31__Tachikoma__but i want toinstall rockbox on it
05:14:18maelstromyou do not have to format the ipod to put rockbox on it. just read & follow the installation instructions
05:14:29__Tachikoma__ok
05:14:35__Tachikoma__what installer do i use?
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05:35:12maelstromi keep getting trapped inside the plugins. for instance Bounce is a really fun game but pressing "Menu" does not exit, as the intro screen says it should. in fact it does nothing
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05:36:04maelstromsorry. bubbles, not bounce
05:36:45maelstromI did not see "shuffle" anywhere or even "random"
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09:28:23GodEaterquiet in here today
09:28:44B4gderI'm getting coffee, anyone wants?
09:28:58GodEaterjust finishing mine...
09:28:59peturtea please
09:29:10*petur hands over blue cup
09:30:08scorcheB4gder: they have lattes?
09:31:13B4gderonly for blue cups ;-)
09:31:27scorchei will get mine soon enough!
09:31:55B4gderyou need to give me an address and a few shirt sizes asap really, I need to ship this
09:32:36scorchelet me double check to make sure that i have all of them
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09:38:48*petur sees a new firefox update and hopes it will fix the crashing
09:38:48Zagordoes anyone else feel the "searching" popup in the database navigation is really annoying?
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09:39:18*B4gder never used the database... :-)
09:39:26ZagorI just tried it yesterday
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09:39:48Zagorfor my small test database anyway, the popup takes more time than the search (or so it feels, anyway)
09:40:29ZagorI can sympathise with having something that shows the interface has not hung when doing heavy searching. but this constant flickering is just ugly.
09:42:31peturmaybe it should only show if it is taking more than a few seconds
09:43:12*linuxstb reads yesterday's logs about the mkfs.vfat problems on the 80GB ipod and thinks about adding a format option (and convert to FAT32) to ipodpatcher
09:43:33petursounds like a good idea
09:43:52B4gderindeed
09:44:25linuxstbSomeone should tell the mkfs.vfat author/maintainer about the problem though (I don't understand it myself...)
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09:53:03SlasheriZagor: load the database to ram
09:53:08Slasherithen there will be no pop-ups
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09:54:47markunpetur: did you see this one? ;) http://users.on.net/~disko/touchbsod.jpg
09:55:32ZagorSlasheri: aha. and that's a setting i presume?
09:55:51scorcheZagor: not heard about the new microsoft thingy which i cant remember the name of?
09:56:25Zagorscorche: huh?
09:57:13scorchehttp://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4217348.html
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09:57:48Zagorscorche: yeah I saw that. I just don't get the connection?
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09:58:30scorcheoh...nvm...it is getting late
10:00
10:01:01GodEaterlinuxstb: I'm not sure I understand the problem with the mkfs.vfat either - I'm not too tempted to try it out on my 80GB at the moment to find out the exact problem though.
10:01:20SlasheriZagor: yes, found from the database settings menu
10:01:37B4gderwe could trick amiconn into ruining linusn's 80GB to experiment with ;-)
10:01:47ZagorSlasheri: does that permanently load the db to ram? i.e. decreasing the mp3 buffer size?
10:02:15SlasheriZagor: as long as the setting is enabled, yes
10:02:25GodEaterheh, I'm not worried about "ruining" my ipod, I just have so much stuff on it now I'm loathe to have to back it up, and then load it all one again after I'm done fiddling =/
10:02:39LinusNyou don't have a backup?
10:02:48B4gderyes, and I doubt amiconn has much on linus' ipod... ;-)
10:03:16ZagorSlasheri: then I still think the popup should be removed/fixed for hd mode
10:03:19LinusNi wonder if a 5g ipod can deal with 2048k logical sectors...
10:04:26JdGordon2048 k or bytes?
10:04:34linuxstbAre we even sure the mkfs.vfat problem is a problem with mkfs.vfat, and not a Rockbox problem? Does anything else have problems with such filesystems?
10:04:36peturmarkun: it was a matter of seconds before somebody would create that picture ;)
10:05:25B4gderthey look happy though! ;-)
10:05:36B4gdergreat, my table turned blue!
10:05:41SlasheriZagor: popup for hd mode is necessary because searching is much slower
10:05:52markunpetur: I have see such a BSOD on a huge screen in a train station one time
10:06:08markunI'm sure you can setup windows to just reboot, no?
10:06:10ZagorSlasheri: sometimes, yes. but most searches are near-instant and then the popup is only annoying.
10:06:17peturmarkun: yes
10:06:30SlasheriZagor: hmm, but it's hard to know which search is almost istant
10:06:37Zagorit's like the file browser showing a popup every time you enter a directory
10:06:42Slasheriif hd needs to spin up, then it will take quite some time
10:07:03Slasherihehe, almost
10:07:07ZagorI disagree. hd spins are not slow enough to warrant a popup.
10:07:15 Quit kubiix ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
10:07:27Zagoralso hd spin is shown with a LED (on most targets?) and physically sounds/feels in your hand.
10:07:39Slasherii added that popup because i felt that without it it's pretty annoying to use the database in hd mode..
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10:08:05ZagorI understand the purpose, I just feel it's too annoying
10:08:19Zagor(does ipod have a HD led?)
10:08:24JdGordonwe could add a "busy" icon to the statusbar which needs to be manually turned on and off in the code, less annoying than the splash...
10:08:29linuxstbZagor: How big is your database?
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10:08:59Zagorlinuxstb: not very big
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10:09:26GodEaterlinuxstb: according to some people in the forum post about the subject, the apple firmware can still read the resulting format of the mkfs.vfat filesystem on the 80GB
10:09:36linuxstbI'm just thinking that with a "real" database, the splash might make more sense.
10:09:37ZagorJdGordon: yes either that or somehow trigger the popup after ~2 seconds wait
10:09:48GodEaterhowever, I was a little worried about the fact that the fdisk output showed only a 19GB file system
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10:10:00GodEaterthis is, however, only from one user
10:10:05Zagorlinuxstb: for some searches, yes. but others will always be quick. like genre and year list.
10:10:35evilnickHi guys, anyone able to give some help on H1/300 remote units?
10:10:53Zagor...and album list from an artist
10:10:56 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC")
10:11:26GodEatercgi irc is a pain in the ass
10:11:26Zagorin fact most searches are small no matter the size of the database. only very large result sets are slow.
10:11:34JdGordonthe sttus bar icon would work better seen as the funciton which is doing the splash proably doesnt kow its been waiting :p
10:11:44evilnickUp till yesterday, everything was working fine, but now I can't switch on the h300 using either the h300 remote or the h100 LCD remote, it's telling me that the hold switch is on when it isn't.
10:11:53ZagorJdGordon: agreed. hence the "somehow" :)
10:12:01SlasheriZagor: then there would be need for separate ui/message thread that can trigger the popup if the operation has delayed enough..
10:12:05evilnickAlso the buttons on the h100 LCD remote are switched round.
10:12:10GodEaterevilnick: I found the remote connection on my H140 quite unreliable :(
10:12:48evilnickGodEater: good thinking, I'll try it/them on my h140 instead of on h300.
10:13:19JdGordonSlasheri: doesnt really need an extra thread, but maybe having one to always redraw the statusbar instead of manually doing it in ever list would be nice...
10:13:27JdGordonhow expensive are extra threads anyway?
10:13:32GodEaterevilnick: in my experience it was quite sensitive to vibration, I found the remote would pack up if I used it on a running machine at all
10:13:52SlasheriJdGordon: hmm, statusbar sounds good..
10:14:04SlasheriJdGordon: not expensive in other ways than the iram usage
10:14:11evilnickHmmm, this is more of an issue with the functionality having changed a lot since I last updated.
10:14:21PaulJamwouldn't it be possible to draw the popup without a timeout and just not refresh the screen until the search is complete? so the popup is only shown as long as the search takes?
10:14:31evilnickOr me being a spanner, or the hardware malfunctioning...
10:14:34JdGordonSlasheri: is it possible to force it to not use the iram for those functions?
10:14:53JdGordonPaulJam: im pretty sure thats whats happening
10:16:05PaulJamJdGordon: i was thinking that too, but if i understand Zagor correctly then the popup is displayed longer than the search takes.
10:16:42ZagorPaulJam: that was an exaggeration.
10:16:43*JdGordon would be surprised if that was the case
10:17:03ZagorI was merely annoyed at it flickering a popup even for "instant" searches
10:17:20JdGordonyeah, its called with 0 timeout... so its working as it shhuold
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10:19:16Noah0504Hello, all.
10:20:39SlasheriPaulJam: currently it is shown just as long as the search takes :)
10:21:04Slasherino, it's not displayed "too long"
10:21:09PaulJamyes, it wa a misunderstanding, sorry for the confusion.
10:21:15Noah0504Is there anyone who runs Rockbox on an iPod?
10:21:20Slasheridatabase just "chunks" the search so the splash can't be constantly updating
10:22:05SlasheriJdGordon: the iram is used to store thread context, not very easy to exclude it for some threads
10:22:16peturNoah0504: just ask the question
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10:23:10Noah0504Oh, well, I was going to ask if there are any advantages to removing the Apple firmware: increased startup speed, etc...
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10:25:00 Join linuxstb [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
10:26:09linuxstbNoah0504: Yes, if you remove the Apple firmware from the firmware partition, you can speed up the boot time.
10:27:24Noah0504linuxstb: Okay, thank you. I want to know if there were any advantages before I start searching on how to do so. I also like the idea of having just Rockbox on my iPod.
10:28:01linuxstbTry the IpodPatcher wiki page.
10:28:12Noah0504Will do. Thanks again.
10:30:42B4gderhttp://www.ohloh.net/projects/3978#
10:30:45B4gderfun stuff
10:31:11evilnickHas anyone else noticed anything funky with the iRiver remote untis in the past month or so?
10:31:44B4gder"Over the entire history of the project, 86 contributors have submitted code. 55 have done so in the last year."
10:31:47 Join crop [0] (i=c27f0812@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-8d23012a14836801)
10:32:20cropHm... How can removing of struct members lead to larger bin?
10:32:40peturB4gder: wow
10:33:13B4gderpetur: check the committers' timeline, really cool ajax fluff
10:33:24*petur is just doing that
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10:35:34*petur runs off to a meeting :(
10:35:43peturdamn managers
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10:36:36pondlifecrop: member alignment?
10:37:07B4gderI find the results of nls' changes quite puzzling as well
10:37:50pondlifeCould it be that unaligned members result in the compiler having to access byte-by-byte?
10:38:03Noah0504Okay, does this sound like it would work? Formatting my iPod under Linux as Fat32 and then using ipodpatcher -wf to overwrite the Apple firmware?
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10:40:40linuxstbNoah0504: Why reformat it?
10:41:01*linuxstb is having a bad ADSL morning
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10:41:59Noah0504linuxstb: Well, I suppose I don't know. I guess I could just remove everything from it. I've reorganized my music on my computer, and I want Rockbox to reflect that for easy updating.
10:42:51B4gderNoah0504: so just delete all the files in your music dir on your ipod and copy them fresh from your host pc
10:43:44Noah0504B4gder: Yeah, I suppose I will.
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10:44:30linuxstbNoah0504: You have two options for removing the Apple firmware - use -wf to write the Rockbox bootloader, or -wf to write rockbox.ipod. I would do the first, as it makes it easier to update Rockbox (you just unzip rockbox.zip, rather than having to remember to re-run ipodpatcher).
10:45:43Noah0504Ahh, okay.
10:46:37linuxstbYou can get the current bootloader.ipod files from here - http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/
10:46:59*linuxstb needs to add an option to "-wf" the embedded bootloader...
10:47:26*linuxstb can't think of a name for that option though
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10:51:51Noah0504What is the iPod Video 64MB build?
10:52:16LinusNNoah0504: it's for the ipods with 64MB of memory
10:52:49Noah0504LinusN: haha, Okay, I assumed, but wasn't for sure. Are those the 5.5Gs?
10:53:04markunNoah0504: I think we are not sure :)
10:53:15markunat least for the 5g 60GB
10:53:33markunmaybe for all the 5.5s's
10:53:34LinusNNoah0504: they are the ipods with 60GB or more disk, IIRC
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10:53:35amiconnB4gder: I've copied ~5GB of music to it, but I have everything in several places anyway
10:53:47markunNoah0504: which one do you have?
10:54:06Noah0504markun: I have a 30GB 5g.
10:54:32markunok, that one has 32MB
10:57:28Noah0504Ahh, well, I have everything in order now.
10:58:00Noah0504Although, I need to find an easy way to actually sync my music.
10:58:43GaloisI just use rsync
10:59:04markunNoah0504: which OS do you use?
10:59:28Noah0504I'm running Linux.
10:59:37Noah0504Ubuntu to be specific.
10:59:54GaloisUbuntu includes rsync ...
11:00
11:00:07Noah0504Well, I'll have to give it a spin.
11:00:57Galoisrsync -av is reasonably fast and verbose
11:01:06Noah0504Galois: Thanks.
11:01:28B4gderrsync is your friend
11:01:39B4gdersoon to contain code by me
11:01:41B4gder;-)
11:01:51Noah0504B4gder: Nice. :)
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11:05:29amiconnZagor: Only the minority of targets has a real hdd led. The others have that little hdd icon in the status bar.
11:05:36Zagorok
11:05:55amiconnI don't think the db splash is annoying. It disappears as soon as the search finished
11:06:23Zagorthe flickering is annoying. do you want a splash in the filebrowser too?
11:06:33amiconnno
11:06:34 Quit Soap (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
11:06:44Zagorwhat is the difference?
11:06:48amiconnBut db searches take significantly longer than just the spinup
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11:06:58Zagora few do, most don't
11:06:59B4gdermight take at least
11:07:12amiconnThey often do (on archos anyway)
11:07:26Noah0504rsync: chgrp "/media/IPOD/." failed: Operation not permitted (1)
11:07:36Noah0504What's that mean exactly?
11:07:41Zagorartist list takes a long time. artist->album doesn't. album->tracks doesn't. etc.
11:09:01Galoisit means vfat doesn't implement group ownership properly?
11:09:15amiconnpondlife: Removing struct members doesn't result in members becoming unaligned wrt their size, unless the struct is 'packed' whichisn't the default
11:09:33Noah0504Hmm...
11:10:10GaloisI guess you could use rsync -rtv if you really don't like seeing that error
11:10:13amiconnBut it might happen that members acquire an address that's more difficult to load, especially on arm with it's 'special' constant handling
11:10:36Noah0504Galois: Okay.
11:11:21amiconnThere's a relatively simple way to find out. Make 2 builds and compare the .map files to find the module(s) where code size increases. Then disassemble both versions of those module(s) and see..
11:12:23Noah0504Galois: I mean, is that error actually affecting anything, or should I just not worry about it?
11:12:50Galoisit doesn't affect anything; don't worry about it
11:13:02Noah0504Galois: Well, that works for me, haha.
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11:14:57amiconnlinuxstb: perhaps -we (for 'write embedded') ?
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11:15:50Noah0504rsync is amazing. Thanks for sharing it with me.
11:15:51Noah0504haha
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11:18:47intgrRsync is nice, but it lacks two-way synchronization −− e.g., when both ends contain modified files, one end always overrides the other regardless of which end has newer changes.
11:19:38Noah0504Yeah, I can see how that would be a nice feature, but for me syncing music to my iPod, it's great.
11:19:41Galoisyes, and even worse, sometimes people think it has two way synchronization, and lose their work
11:19:55Galoisunison has two way synchronization, but it's not included by default
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11:23:14linuxstbamiconn: "write embedded" works for me, thanks.
11:24:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:25:00croppondlife: if it's member alignment, can't it be achieved with some compiler pragma? Having unneeded members just for the sake of alignment is ugly and very fragile
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11:29:45amiconncrop: It's not an alignment problem in the classical sense, see my remarks ~15 min ago
11:31:55intgrGalois: I should try it, thanks.
11:33:53cropamiconn: but if those members are removed in the middle then there must have been other "badly placed" members, i.e. the overall situation should not dramatically change. Or do you mean that the members that (after removal) become 'bad alignment' are accessed more frequently?
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11:39:23amiconncrop: Only way to find out is what I described...
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11:47:53cropamiconn: yes. But in general: can sh1 based cpus access members with higher offset in a more effective way than those with lower offset?
11:50:55*JdGordon thought it was the opposite
11:52:28amiconncrop: Members with very low offsets can be accessed efficiently, above this limit it doesn't matter
11:52:58amiconnFor arm it's quite difficult to predict efficiency, as it depends on the range of bits set int the address offset
11:55:17amiconnThe efficient offset range for SH is (0..15)*data_size, where data_size is 1, 2 or 4
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12:01:56linuxstbamiconn: Do you know about Coldfire? The deltas seemed to be even bigger there than ARM.
12:03:29amiconnCompile 2 builds, check .map's, disassemble modules and see...
12:03:36*amiconn repeats himself
12:05:35linuxstbamiconn: No need to repeat yourself - you speculated about the cause on ARM, so was just wondering if you had ideas about the reason on Coldfire (I don't know Coldfire ASM at all).
12:05:53JdGordondoes anyone have a audio of clip of quigmire goign "gigeddy giggedy" ?
12:08:58*linuxstb has absolutely no idea what JdGordon is talking about
12:09:07Siltaarplz help... I did update my rb sources and since I can't compile... I got "no rule to make stubs.c needed by /apps/bookmark.o "
12:09:23JdGordonfamily guy... :'(
12:09:25Siltaarand I found nothing in the forum
12:09:26LinusNi now have an irc log of JdGordon going nuts :-)
12:10:20markunSiltaar: you can try to delete everything from your build dir and start with tools/configure again
12:10:41Siltaarhow should it work in a normal time ?
12:10:52Siltaarmarkun... I did made a new build dir
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12:14:10SiltaarI try to build for sansa (choice 50 in the configure script)
12:14:44linuxstbAre you building the simulator or for the real device?
12:14:55Siltaarsimulator
12:15:33linuxstbDo you have the uisimulator directory?
12:15:51linuxstb(at the same level as apps, firmware, etc)
12:15:58Siltaaramong src folders ?
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12:16:30Siltaaryep (common sdl battery files)
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12:18:14Siltaarthere's a Makefile here
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12:18:38Siltaarhow should it work for a uisimulator compilation ?
12:18:55linuxstbThe same as a normal compilation - "mkdir build-e200sim ; cd build-e200sim ; ../tools/configure ; make"
12:20:16Siltaarok, so that's what I do
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12:20:40Siltaarstubs.c is in the uisimulator/common/SOURCES file
12:21:04webguest75hi, I want to add support for the ami adpcm wav codec (used by alot of cheap mp3 players for voice recording).ffmpeg seem to have support for this (http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg-doc.html#SEC25), but I'm abit at a loss about implementing it in rockbox.
12:21:26linuxstbWithout knowing everything you've done in the past, it's hard to say how you've broken it. But you have done something wrong - the current build table doesn't show problems with the e200 sim.
12:21:57linuxstbwebguest75: What's the difference between that and normal adpcm wav files (which I think Rockbox already supports) ?
12:22:36B4gderSiltaar: yoy using svn or a source tarball?
12:23:17Siltaartoday updated svn (I have this problem since last week)
12:23:36webguest75linuxstb: I think currently rockbox supports only dvi adpcm
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12:24:03linuxstbwebguest75: Are they in .wav files?
12:24:06Siltaarand nothing is reported merged 'M'
12:24:13B4gderSiltaar: and you've rerun configure recently?
12:24:24Siltaaryes, in a new build directory
12:24:44B4gderSiltaar: can you paste the exact and full error message in a pastebin somewhere for us to see?
12:24:56webguest75i don't understand your queation
12:25:11SiltaarI will
12:25:12webguest75*question
12:26:00linuxstbwebguest75: "wav" is a container format capable of storing many different audio types - I'm asking if these files are WAV, or if they are using a different container format.
12:26:45linuxstbwebguest75: Or put another way, what file extension do they normally have?
12:27:15cropamiconn: but if the cpus behave as you described then removing members should only make the offset lower. Which should result in smaller bin. That's what I don't quite get: how moving some members to higher offset can result in more effective code, regardless of the cpu
12:29:11webguest75linuxstb: yes, they are a type of WAV, they have a WAV extention
12:29:43linuxstbwebguest75: OK, that makes it easier to support in Rockbox. You need to add support in apps/codecs/wav.c - that's Rockbox's WAV codec.
12:29:54SiltaarB4gder, http://pastebin.wikistuce.info/?696
12:30:41SiltaarB4gder, nothing is reported merged but, it must have merged things, I did modify the sudoku plugin so...
12:30:54linuxstbwebguest75: If they were a different format, you would have to add a complete new codec.
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12:33:49webguest75linuxstb: ok, I'll see what I can do...
12:36:22B4gderSiltaar: can you paste your file called apps/dep-apps in the build dir?
12:36:43B4gderfairly large...
12:36:53B4gdermine is ~150K
12:37:11B4gderthe error message might indicate a problem in that file
12:37:25B4gderwhich is the generate dependency file that make uses for the build
12:37:33JdGordonfor some reason stubs.c caused me problems ages ago also
12:37:50B4gderit did?
12:37:57JdGordonit has a dependancy on menu.h iirc for some reason
12:38:09JdGordonI tihk thats what was causing my problems
12:38:41JdGordon... had.. seems t be gone now
12:38:45B4gderbut why is that a problem only to a rare few?
12:38:56JdGordondepends what changes you make
12:39:06B4gder?
12:39:25JdGordonwait a sec, is the problem with a clea tree or a patch?
12:39:46Siltaar(hum, I had for sure a conflict with the sudoku.c ...)
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12:41:53FaemirCan someone tell me why using an unsupported build (senab's) still hasn't got album art skins to work. (the top is ok, but the bottom looks like the default layout with the double analyser).
12:42:24B4gderSiltaar: anyway, you should try building a clean unmodified build
12:43:12Siltaaryep
12:43:39LloreanFaemir: You should ask the build author or thread any problems you have with the build
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12:44:49Faemirok
12:45:17haemmyand lock at the wiki page about album art ^^
12:45:27haemmyhelped me
12:46:22markunwebguest75: did you mean ima instead of ami?
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12:48:12webguest75yes, sorry :)
12:48:18webguest75markum: yes...
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12:53:19webguest25Hello, When I load a wps on my iriver H10 20gb, It dosent show up. All I see is the default screen. How Do I lload a WPS
12:53:38webguest75linuxstb: I've naver done codec implementing before, and I can't figure out what needs to be taken from ffmpeg's adpcm.c file (http://svn.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg/trunk/libavcodec/adpcm.c?view=log), and what to do with it in rockbox (I assume it should be added to wav.c..)
12:53:59haemmywebguest25 −−> go to options page
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12:54:31haemmythere somewhere is a option "show themes"
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12:54:52webguest25They don't show up there!!! I selected it manualy and it said it was lloaded...
12:57:20GodEaterwebguest25: it's probably a buggy theme
12:57:25GodEaterwebguest25: try a different one
12:57:28haemmythen it should be loaded an shown
12:57:53GodEaterhaemmy: the default behaviour for broken wps's is now to show the default screen instead
12:58:07haemmyah ok
12:58:33linuxstbwebguest75: You won't be able to just blindly copy and paste without understanding what's going on, and how these files are structured. If I was you, I would do some background reading about WAV and the IMA ADPCM codec, and also study Rockbox's wav.c file until you understand it.
12:58:37haemmywebguest25 : have you got the latest version of the theme?
12:58:55haemmysry false highlight
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13:00:10linuxstbGodEater: There's no "error in WPS file" spash?
13:01:54webguest25I loaded three to my player, and tried them all. And yes i have the lkatest one, i downloaded them today
13:02:05GodEaternot that I've seen - but my build is a bit out of date :)
13:02:25*petur discovers austriancoder is writing a blog to about his SoC project, nice to read he is working on it
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13:04:53B4gderimho, the usbotg arch image looks strange
13:05:17peturyes
13:05:59peturhis blog sounds better than the wiki page
13:06:42JdGordonis panic() the only way to get it tto panic? there is only one call in apps/ and its not in the form i tihnk im looking for
13:07:05JdGordonunless '*PANIC* recfile: -116' isnt a real panic?
13:07:28 Quit webguest75 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
13:10:54JdGordonfound it... go me :)
13:11:03JdGordonstupid mpeg.c being i firmware/ and not apps/
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13:13:05JdGordonis there anyway to debug mpeg.c without the target?
13:13:36JdGordonah, it is in the sim..
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13:21:15amiconnJdGordon: Afaik mpeg.c doesn't simulate recording precisely enough to be useful for debugging this panic
13:21:53amiconnThe -116 provides the call traceback which leads to the panic
13:22:53JdGordonthe only panicf in mpeg.c with the word recfile is when the file couldnt be opened... just gotta figure out where that FILE_NEW event is sent to the tread i apps to stop it properly
13:24:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:25:42webguest75linuxstb: this seems to be way over my head. so I gues I'll just post a feature request and hope someone feels like doing this :(
13:28:28*JdGordon is lost in the recording code :'(
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13:53:32Faemirdoes anyone know the rough time that a video ipod (30gb) will run for on rockbox?
13:53:53peturwiki IpodRuntime
13:55:16Faemirthanks :D
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14:00:47cax_if in sim everything works, but on device itself I get Data Abort for some unknown reason, is there any way to debug the problem ?
14:01:43peturcax_: data alignment problem?
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14:05:54cax_petur: maybe. Should every address be a multiple of 4 ?
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14:06:12peturiirc, yes
14:06:49caxlet me see... addr=33304026 ... heh, it seems you are right.
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14:17:18amiconncax: Not every address needs to be a multiple of 4, but all data items need their addresses to be aligned to their size (1, 2 or 4 bytes)
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14:21:28JdGordonhey pixelma, do you still have 2 <MMC> folders?
14:24:40pixelmawow... lagging inernet connection and lagging webclient....
14:25:06pixelmanope, atm I only have one <MMC1> folder
14:26:09JdGordonbugger.. i was hoping that might have caused the panic
14:26:42JdGordondoes it panic if you try a hard disk folder?
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14:27:32PimpdaddypayneDoes anyone here have a real 'ghetto' voice?
14:27:57pixelmareading the logs - rockbox supports "ima adpcm" in a wav container. At least mine play even though the song length info is way of (but that might be because mine have an unusal bitrate too)
14:28:10pixelma*off
14:29:03pixelmaJdGordon: I'll try
14:29:08JdGordonta
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14:33:41pixelmaJdGordon: it panics too (with the same info)
14:33:58JdGordonthis is gonna be a pita to debug :'(
14:34:34JdGordonits failign to open the file... so somehow have to figure out which fil e it is trying... but we cant use splash() :(
14:35:02peturcan't use a splash?
14:35:23JdGordonits in firmware... not apps
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14:35:30JdGordonhave to add it to the panic call i guess...
14:35:32*petur used splashes to debug the FAT driver
14:36:36peturjust temporarily copy and include the required headerfile(s)
14:36:42amiconnNah
14:36:53pixelmaJdGordon: the first patch worked - as long as I didn't remove the MMC
14:37:10amiconnEven simpler - declare the function in mpeg.c at the top
14:37:25 Part shnee ("Konversation terminated!")
14:37:37amiconnJdGordon: What about the strange things in the sd patch I mentioned?
14:37:57amiconn(replicating the Ondio MMC behaviour where it shouldn't be necessary)
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14:38:17JdGordonin ata-e200.c or the hotswap code?
14:38:48JdGordonif its in ata-e200.c then thats toni's code, not sure what its doing...
14:39:14amiconnThe hotswap code
14:39:46JdGordonprobably just put it there to replicate the mmc code as it is..
14:40:18 Quit midgey ()
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14:42:03JdGordonwe are still having problems with the sd code, so there is no rush to put it in.. so I havnt looked at it more just yet
14:42:11caxhow in rockbox the work is splitted between 2 cores ? Can I fork() or do anything else to make things work in parallel ?
14:43:50 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
14:44:34JdGordonpixelma: got a bit of time t debug this?
14:45:06pixelmano, not here
14:45:20JdGordonif open returns <0 does the number mean anything? or ...
14:45:48JdGordonpixelma: ok
14:46:00amiconnJdGordon: Sure it does
14:46:21amiconnI already mentioned that the -116 provides a traceback...
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14:47:28JdGordonnot quite sure what you mean there...
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14:48:07amiconnMost functions in rockbox which fail due to calling a lower level function return error_code_of_lower_level_function * 10 + own_error_code
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14:48:53*JdGordon was hopgin you wouldnt say that... open fails with rc*10-9 after lseek which is where is must have failed...
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14:57:47JdGordonpixelma: does tring t record to just / panic also?
14:58:20*linuxstb likes the ffmpeg patch submission checklist - http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg-doc.html#SEC41
15:00
15:00:38pixelmaJdGordon: when trying to clear the recording directory I get the ""Can't create / directory. Error code -3." again
15:01:11 Quit cax ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
15:01:38JdGordonok
15:02:51pixelmaand then it panics (don't know where it wanted to write to) - hope, I'll don't have 2 root directories now or something like this
15:04:11 Quit Pimpdaddypayne ("Leaving")
15:05:12*JdGordon hopes not also :)
15:06:05pixelmaok, I don't :)
15:06:25JdGordonok, this is sort of nice, the h300 shows the same thing, but no panic.. so ill see what I ca come up with
15:07:03pixelmagot to leave soon again, anyways. Won't have the possibility to join until the evening probably
15:08:28JdGordonno worries, ttyl
15:09:17*Faemir is away: Away
15:14:47 Quit pixelma ("laters")
15:17:21*JdGordon wondering why mkdir is returning <0 when it does create the directory successfully
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15:22:26Siltaarhu-hum
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15:23:19roro87hello
15:23:28 Quit aliask ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007040314]")
15:23:52Siltaarso, the next time someone complain about strange compilation error,
15:24:36Siltaarhe would be advised to double re-watch its svn-conflicted files :-)
15:24:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:24:52JdGordonwhat was the problem?
15:24:53roro87has anyone been dissabling the archos jukebox here ?
15:25:32SiltaarJdGordon, a conflicted file, inducing old bad dependancies
15:25:42linuxstbroro87: dissabling?
15:26:59linuxstbJdGordon: The cursor jumping when you're moving 1 row per second isn't a bug?
15:27:11roro87dissassembling sorry
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15:27:35JdGordonlinuxstb: no, its bad settings
15:27:49JdGordonmovin at that speed is not normal
15:28:07roro87im looking to replace the stereo jack, but don't know which reference it is...
15:29:57linuxstbJdGordon: How is it bad settings, and why can't someone move the cursor that slowly if they want to ?
15:30:52JdGordonthats the speed that the default setting goes at i think...
15:31:54JdGordonand its only possible on the sansa (and possibly ipod) because there isnt button_release events on the wheel?
15:32:02linuxstbSo moving the Sansa's wheel one click per second sends repeat events, kicking in your acceleration code?
15:32:51JdGordonapparently
15:33:08*JdGordon doent have his sansa with him to play though
15:34:00linuxstbIt sounds like a bug (or at the very least, undesirable behavour) to me, but I've never touched a Sansa.
15:34:23 Quit roro87 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
15:35:04JdGordonreopened...
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15:52:48*petur sees thundercloud outside his window :)
15:53:30Siltaarthere's also ones here at Tours in France
15:53:55Siltaaramiconn ? are here ?
15:54:03Siltaarif you are here knock one time
15:54:18Siltaarif you are'nt here, knock two times...
15:54:41*petur watches Siltaar getting knocked down
15:58:18Siltaarhum... is it an existing file stubs.h ?
15:59:58Siltaari have no stubs.h at all
16:00
16:01:10 Join yan [0] (n=yan@87.107.70-86.rev.gaoland.net)
16:01:32 Quit jac0b ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]")
16:02:03yanHi Guys: I'd like to know : whih difference is there bitween the ipodvideo port and ipodvideo64mb port ?
16:02:15yan(found on http://www.rockbox.org/daily.shtml)
16:02:21linuxstbJdGordon: I've just been trying the list acceleration on my ipod, and can't decide if I like the behaviour or not - i.e. the fact that it accelerates based on how long you've been constantly scrolling, not how fast. On the one hand it's nice to not have to spin the wheel like a maniac to scroll through long lists, but on the other hand it's now impossible to scroll through a list slowly.
16:03:18*linuxstb wonders what other think of it on the ipod
16:03:23linuxstb^others
16:04:09linuxstbyan: The 64MB version is for ipods with 64MB of RAM. i.e. the 80GB and 60GB models.
16:04:42yanGreat: I didn't know that the 80gb was a 64mb ram-sized.
16:06:08yanI have another question: Because I'm blind, I'll use speech support into Rockbox. I'll soon create a new version of the "French" voice file to reflect all last changed messages into the firmware. Where should I post/send this file when it will be done ?
16:06:39linuxstbAre you using a speech program that allows you to redistribute files generated with it?
16:07:50yanI think yes: I'll use speech-dispatcher (with a imbtts driver) to generate the wave files on Linux and then pack the generated files into a .voice file
16:07:53Siltaaryan, currently 'Moos' maintain the French voice
16:08:19yanOk, so I'll contact Moos when my work will be done
16:08:23peturdoes he? I thought he only did the lang file
16:08:39Siltaaryou should at least speak with him before starting the big boring task
16:09:05Siltaarhum, yes, he maintain the .lang file...
16:09:20yannot so boring thanks to a little perl script that will do the thing for me ;) But you're right, I'll sleak to him before
16:09:20*Faemir is back (gone 01:00:04)
16:09:22SiltaarI produce .voice files from espeak
16:09:42Siltaarunder Linux
16:09:46*petur wants Faemir to turn off that script
16:09:49FaemirI don't suppose that anyone knows whether a battery extender for an ipod would work with rockbox?
16:09:52LinusNFaemir: we are not interested in your status updates
16:10:01Faemirsorry, it's for a different channel on freenode
16:10:21Faemirit announces it in them all >_>
16:10:51 Quit Galois (Remote closed the connection)
16:11:02yanSiltaar: And do you have a script to generate the voice file or just do it manually ?
16:13:01Siltaaryan, you have my pv
16:13:03bospaadjelinuxstb, i'm only now testing the scrolling behaviour on my ipod
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16:13:13bospaadjei dont normally use long lists to scroll through
16:13:32bospaadjebut still, it's kind of annoying you can't actually scroll slowly
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16:14:38bospaadjemaybe you could implement a treshold speed above which the current behaviour is used, and if you scroll slower, you just scroll slowly through the list?
16:14:40 Nick yan is now known as Kioui (n=yan@87.107.70-86.rev.gaoland.net)
16:15:33*bospaadje wonders how the of does it - never used it :)
16:19:00 Quit JdGordon (Remote closed the connection)
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16:23:57Nico_Plinuxstb: that submission checklist is huge !
16:24:20Nico_Pbut I like most of it... maybe we should add a few things to ours
16:24:21linuxstbNico_P: Yes, but you can't argue with any of them - they are all "good things".
16:24:30Nico_Pindeed
16:24:45Nico_Pthey're just very demanding
16:26:01linuxstbMaybe, but I think they are things people should be doing before posting patches (and devs who commit their own patches).
16:26:04 Quit kubiix ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
16:26:21markunI wrote a little test plugin to get the x and y axes of the Gigabeat touchpad, would be nice if those values could influence the scrolling speed
16:26:46linuxstbmarkun: Rockbox now has too many different input devices...
16:27:33markunlinuxstb: I think the H10 strip and Gigabeat pad could be handled in the same way, no?
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16:31:05markunlinuxstb: http://130.89.160.166/rockbox/touchpad.c
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16:33:20linuxstblinuxstb: That still leaves three different input concepts - buttons, touchpad and wheel (both physical - sansa, and virtual - ipod)
16:33:28*linuxstb meant to talk to markun, not himself ;)
16:33:33markun:)
16:34:16pondlifelinuxstb: Where's this demanding list..?
16:34:36pondlifeShould probably be on http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/FlySprayHowto (or referred to from there).
16:34:42linuxstbpondlife: http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg-doc.html#SEC41
16:35:04pondlifeAha, not a Rockbox list then ;)
16:35:33KiouiWhen you're talking about "touchpad" , it's for the iPod port or not ?
16:36:10markunKioui: no, Gigabeat F/X and iriver H10
16:36:22KiouiOh ok, sorry
16:36:34linuxstbWe call what the ipods have a wheel.
16:36:42KiouiAnd, how does this touchpad works into the original firmware?
16:37:05linuxstbpondlife: No, but I would like to suggest it as one...
16:37:25markunKioui: the OF of the Gigabeat treats taps on it like buttons, but you can also do special actions by sliding your finger from one side to the other
16:38:02linuxstbmarkun: Is it interpreted as 5 different buttons in the OF (same as Rockbox)?
16:38:04markunif you hold your finger on the lower part for scrolling, you can change the speed by sliding up or down
16:38:09markunlinuxstb: yes
16:38:57Siltaark
16:39:23markunlinuxstb: holding down one of the 'buttons' for scrolling could enter a scolling loop and then moving on the pad could change the speed until you let go of the pad and leave the loop
16:39:23KiouiHum ok
16:39:33KiouiAnd what would you like to be done into Rockbox?
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16:40:13KiouiWow seems not so easy to do :)
16:40:36markunKioui: it felt very natural to me when I tried it
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16:42:06Kiouimarkun: I think it is indeed, but I have difficulties to figure out how it is really
16:43:10Kiouimarkun: If implemented, it will be a complex driver which lots of different cases depending of where are our finger on the pad and what the finger movement looks like
16:43:31markunKioui: no, not really
16:43:55markunit will just scroll and the speed will depend on the y axis read from my code
16:44:39markunbut unless you have a Gigabeat there is no way for you to try it
16:44:53KiouiSo if I understand: if you made little circles, you will scroll slowly and the bigger the circle is, the faster the scrolling would be?
16:45:17markunKioui: I forgot to tell you: the 'pad' is in fact a cross
16:45:24markunso you cannot make a circle
16:45:31Kiouimarkun: Of course, it was just to figure out how it looks like :)
16:46:07markunKioui: if I ever implement it I can make a small video for you to look at :)
16:46:11KiouiHum ok, understood, yeahh! :)
16:48:54KiouiOh and just another question to linuxstb maybe: Into the iPodvideo documentation, we use "ipodpatcher" program to write a 1st partition on the iPod. Is this program already working for 80gb ipods, or should I builad manually my boot partition with ipod_fw ?
16:49:34Kiouimarkun: Thanks for the video, but being blind, it will be hard for me to see anything :)
16:49:42markunKioui: oops :)
16:49:57Kiouimarkun: no problem
16:50:11linuxstbKioui: ipodpatcher works on the 80GB. ipod_fw is badly broken on the 5.5g - ipodpatcher was mainly written because I gave up trying to hack support for the 5.5g into ipod_fw, so wrote ipodpatcher from scratch.
16:50:11peturthat's what you get when you change nick inbetween
16:50:33markunKioui: btw, I'm mentoring the text to speech project for the google summer of code. Would you have any use for such a feature in rockbox?
16:51:08markunpetur: ah.. Kioui == yan
16:51:17Kiouilinuxstb: Hum ok.
16:51:19petur:)
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16:52:30linuxstbmarkun: Have you tried the new list acceleration on the gigabeat?
16:52:53markunnot yet
16:57:14LinusNthe acceleration doesn't work that good for me on my ipod
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16:57:42LinusNit keeps on accelerating even when i slow down
16:58:06linuxstbYes, it's nothing to do with speed, just how long you've been touching the wheel.
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16:58:17LinusNand that doesn't work well for me
16:59:15LinusNi think the speed must enter in the equation as well
16:59:33linuxstbSo do I.
17:00
17:00:01preglowoh yes indeed
17:00:31preglowonly speed, how long it's been pressed is irrelevant
17:00:44Nico_Pcouldn't we have separate codes for the various input devices ?
17:00:50LinusNwe should
17:01:18*Nico_P is about to test markun's touchpad plugin
17:01:49linuxstbWe'll probably upset the people who've been asking for ipod wheel acceleration ever since the port started, but maybe remove the current list acceleration for the wheel targets? I haven't tried it, but I imagine it's fine on targets with buttons.
17:02:06linuxstbOr leave it until someone implements something better?
17:02:15LinusNi guess it works well on those
17:02:34LinusNthe wheel acceleration is downright annoying
17:02:44linuxstbYou can always disable it in the settings though.
17:02:52LinusNyou can't select some items without releasing the wheel
17:03:13peturthen make the default setting disabled
17:03:23markunNico_P: ok, let me know if anything could be improved
17:03:38markunNico_P: I think I made some changes and didn't test the code after that
17:03:57Nico_Pmarkun: maybe two lines to show the cross, but apart from that it's nice
17:04:17Nico_PI assume the accuracy isn't up to the plugin ?
17:04:21RincewindLinusN: What is the status on the Rec button issue? Is there anything I can do?
17:04:48LinusNi dunno, haven't been in the loop regarding that
17:04:54markunNico_P: no, not really. The pad has 13 sensors and this is what I came up with
17:05:30RincewindLinusN: I read in the IRC logs about putting everybody on a hitlist who is against it ^^
17:05:41LinusNhehe
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17:07:26Nico_Pmarkun: I think you should commit it to SVN :)
17:07:31 Quit hannesd_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:07:34*linuxstb tries the list acceleration on the gigabeat and thinks it works quite well
17:08:00toffe82markun: 13 I remember 11 ?? or I am wrong
17:08:18LinusNon the ipod, it scrolls like a bag of shit! :-)
17:08:30linuxstb:)
17:08:36toffe82markun: you are wright 13 , sorry
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17:11:34markunlinuxstb: where can I enable it?
17:12:31Nico_Pmarkun: display > scrolling IIRC
17:13:06Nico_Pyes, that's it. the last two settings
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17:14:33markunforgot to reboot :)
17:15:58markunlinuxstb: yes, a nice improvement
17:24:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:30:54*petur wonders how long it will take before somebody writes a tool that strips user details from itunes DRM-free songs
17:31:19petur( http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/05/31/apple_itunes_plus_drm/ )
17:31:32linuxstbI would expect there to already be tools to do that.
17:32:11peturcan they stick it anywhere else besides the tags?
17:32:33Galoisthey could use watermarks, like everyone else
17:34:34Galoisif you read the latest research papers on watermarks they claim that you can do something like (for example) average together ten different copies of the same song and re-encode with 64kbit mp3 and the watermarking decoder can still detect at least one of the original 10 watermarks with reasonable probability
17:35:35peturif that is so, sound quality must suffer a lot
17:36:03Galoisand they have before and after images of frequency spectra
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17:38:59RincewindI suppose itunes uses tags or header information, because I don't think that a watermark can be found and decrypted easily without knowing that it is there
17:40:52linuxstbIs this DRM-free itunes a US-only thing at the moment?
17:42:18GaloisI'm sure it is. itunes itself is regionalized.
17:43:25 Quit pondlife (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:46:12Galois"Purchases from the iTunes Store are available only in the United States and are not available in any other location. You agree not to use or attempt to use the service from outside of the available territory. Apple may use technologies to verify such compliance." this one bit some people hard
17:51:29Faemircan someone tell me how much an entire album is on itunes at the moment?
17:51:51Faemir(I'm on linux)
17:53:46Galois$9.99 ???
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17:54:13PaulJampropably depends on where you live. i think entire albums always cost 10 euro in europe.
17:54:49FaemirI'm in UK, and someone just told me they are £7. So actually, buying hard copies is cheaper most of the time :\
17:55:11Galoiswell, yes, american companies like to charge europeans double
17:55:29Galoisfor example the cost of windows vista in the UK is frightening
17:55:59Faemirit is.
17:56:09Faemirthough OEM isn't too bad
17:56:18Faemir£65 for premium...
17:56:42FaemirGalois, you buy 30gb ipods for £120. We pay £190
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17:58:35Galoishome premium retail $239.00 vs. £219
17:59:52Faemir:(
18:00
18:03:45haemmy|afko0
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18:23:55 Nick Shoeguy2369 is now known as Korin_Night (n=user@209.8.41.59)
18:26:35Korin_NightMorning...anyone around?
18:27:12haemmy|afkmorning?
18:27:24haemmy|afko0 where are you from=
18:27:26haemmy|afk?
18:27:30 Nick haemmy|afk is now known as haemmy (n=stefan@194.208.162.140)
18:27:44Korin_NightSouthern California
18:27:50Korin_Nightyourself?
18:27:55haemmyAustria
18:28:08haemmy18:28 local time
18:28:12Korin_Nightahhh cool...My uncle is from there
18:28:32Korin_Nightaaahhh..my work day would have been over for 2 hours
18:28:47haemmy+g+
18:29:02haemmyuncle from austria? where from austria?
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18:30:13Korin_Nighti'm not sure exactly where in Austria...but his cousin was in the 92? olympics? -ponders- winter olympics, downhill ski jump thing
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18:33:23haemmysry what does ponders mean? ;)
18:34:18Korin_Nightno worries...its like..."thinks" cause I wasn't sure what year the winter olympics were
18:34:50haemmy92 they were in France
18:36:34Korin_Nightreally?
18:38:48david11is it smart to trade an ipod (30gb) for an gigabeat f40 + 100 ??
18:39:28markundavid11: will you get the ipod or the gigabeat?
18:39:44david11gigabeat
18:39:56markunthen I think it's smart :)
18:40:17linuxstbdavid11: What is the 100 ? (I can't see a recognisable currency symbol)
18:40:18markun... if you like rockbox
18:40:24david11even if the ipod is extreme new
18:40:45david11linuxstb: euro
18:41:34markunhow much did you pay for the ipod?
18:41:59david11normal price 280 (euro)
18:42:15linuxstbAn F40 can be bought for around 100 USD
18:42:42markunso maybe not such a good deal after all
18:43:09david11i know, but if i buy an gigabeat i dont need the ipod anymore
18:43:26linuxstbBut in terms of features (when running Rockbox), I would say the F40 is better than the ipod video.
18:43:37linuxstb^much better
18:43:44 Quit toffe82 (Remote closed the connection)
18:44:19david11is there also such great support if the gigabeat breaks?
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18:46:14linuxstbI've no idea about Toshiba's support (they don't make the F40 any more).
18:46:33markuntoffe82 is your support if it breaks :)
18:49:31toffe82:)
18:49:59david11toffe82: really?
18:50:54Korin_Nighti'm curiuos, anyone having any problems with charging their IPOD 80gs? or am I doing something wrong?
18:53:06toffe82david11: yes
18:54:01toffe82david11: it is better that you buy a f40 at 100$ and sell your ipod, so you will have it for free
18:54:16toffe82david11: where are you from ?
18:56:02david11toffe82: Austria
18:56:31*amiconn now even tends to disagree with linuxstb
18:56:59linuxstbamiconn: You prefer the ipod?
18:57:04amiconnThe ipod video has a far better display than the gigabeat
18:57:38amiconnThe gigabeat has the same annoying pitch-black colour lcd as all the colour targets except ipod video and nano
18:57:43linuxstbDid you see a 5g ipod video at devcon?
18:58:04linuxstbI _think_ the LCDs are different, but I could be wrong...
18:58:10amiconnI even worked on one... and still have it here
18:58:18amiconn(LinusN's 80GB G5.5)
18:58:30linuxstbI mean did you compare the G5.5 with the older G5
18:58:34amiconnAnd I saw the 60GB G5
18:58:38david11toffe82: is that a Problem?
18:58:41amiconnThe lcd looks the same
18:58:47linuxstbOK.
18:59:51amiconnWhat annoys me about the video (and all the ipods except the minis) is the case
19:00
19:00:04amiconnDidn't check how the gigabeat case compares to that
19:00:07toffe82david11: I don't know the ipod
19:00:40david11toffe82: but you know the gigabeat?
19:00:41linuxstbamiconn: My ipod color is just as visibile without backlight as my 5g.
19:00:54linuxstbvisible even.
19:02:12amiconnThere was no color to look at at devcon...
19:02:18toffe82david11: yes , and I have nothing to say about that, I like it even if I am not using a F anymore but a X which has a better lcd
19:02:31linuxstbamiconn: I know, that's why I'm telling you :)
19:02:48amiconnControls are about equally annoying
19:03:17david11toffe82: is it a problem for you if i am from austria?
19:03:33david11toffe82: if my gigabeat breaks
19:03:38*amiconn still prefers real buttons over this touchy maybe-working stuff
19:05:02toffe82david11: if it is not hardware, no problem, if it is hardware, problem with shipping ( at least 20$ each way )
19:05:25Korin_NightCan anyone help me with a 80GB charging problem i'm having? (could be user error, but I don't know)
19:08:51toffe82david11: but if you take care of it, there is no problem, the biggest damage I saw were broken lcd, broken audio jack . you can fix the lcd but you need to find one, if you break the audio jack, it is a little more difficult because generally it take of the trace on the board (but this is the extreme, you really have to push it hard to break it)
19:09:47 Join Rob222241 [0] (n=Miranda@p54b14df5.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:13:22david11what is the difference between F40 and F41?
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19:17:48Nico_Pdavid11: F41 is slimmer, it's HD has only one platter
19:17:57Nico_Ps/it's/its
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19:29:48Korin_Nightrighteo then
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19:47:06*XavierGr goes to mod his ondio with backlight
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19:52:50preglowhrm, if i have svn added some files i didn't want to but haven't commited yet, is there a way to remove them except using svn rm?
19:53:14*petur would like to announce that if anybody fancies a signed (empty) beer bottle, he should go to ebay within the next 2,5 hours. After that, they're up for recycling
19:54:21amiconnpreglow: What's the problem with svn rm?
19:54:24n1spreglow: I think svn revert will do
19:54:36n1samiconn: it deletes the file
19:54:56amiconnYeah, so copy the file elsewhere, do 'svn rm', and move the copy back
19:55:17preglown1s: man, thanks a bunch, that did it
19:55:35preglowamiconn: i don't think you can svn rm if you haven't commited
19:55:51amiconnyou can iirc
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19:57:37preglowi think i'll just hang on to revert anyway
19:57:39preglownice and clean
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19:58:07DanielWhi
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19:58:53DanielWit seems i am the most stupid guy in the world. installed rockbox on my ipod video 80 GB and now i can not switch it off
19:59:08DanielWthe manual says "hold the play button" but that does not work
20:00
20:00:08Buschelhi there, can anyone tell me how to differ between 60GB anmd 30GB iPOD video at compiletime? I want to use some #ifdef for setting correct battery capacitiy
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20:02:39n1sDanielW: you do not have the hold switch on, do you?
20:02:46saratogais there anyone available who could tell me about how to register a codec in Rockbox?
20:03:05saratogathe instructions page is woefully out of date, and I'm obviously missing a step
20:03:31DanielWn1s: the problem was the usb connection
20:04:13n1sBuschel: the 60GB is supposed to use the 64MB build, but works fine with the regular 32MB one, so checking for MEM==64 should work but IMO havig battery capacity dependant on memorysize is bad
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20:04:55preglowsaratoga: hmm, you need to update metadata.c, playback.c,that's fore sure
20:05:01preglowsaratoga: search for AFMT_
20:05:21Buscheln1s: yes, but I do not know any other way to decide whether to build for 30GB or 60GB iPOD Video
20:05:29linuxstbsaratoga: Did you see my PM last night?
20:05:56n1sBuschel: well, they use the same build target so other than that there is no way afaik
20:06:44saratogalinuxstb: no I didn't notice a PM
20:07:07saratogai've added entries to id3.c and id3.h adding a AFMT_WMA format
20:07:21preglowsaratoga: i'm going to vanish until tuesday tomorrow, just so you know
20:07:42preglowgo whine to linuxstb if you want any info :)
20:08:35linuxstbsaratoga: Check your PMs now...
20:08:38lowlightsaratoga: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/HowToWriteCodecs
20:08:52XavierGrhmm 90mA is a little bit too much for a 3mm led eh?
20:09:29lowlightsaratoga: nevermind (i see you saw that)
20:10:26XavierGrdamn it I need a resistor! it is already too messy there to put another element
20:10:42saratogayes i'm slowly updating that page to bring it in to sync with the playback changes
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20:21:31XavierGramiconn: I think that the gpio signal alone can power the led with 20ma just fine....
20:23:09amiconnOutput H current has a maximum of 1mA...
20:24:22XavierGrstrange... I get more than 20ma when the led is lit
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20:24:40XavierGror am I hurting the circuit?
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20:25:19XavierGrstrange thing is that i get voltage when the backlight is off and no voltage when backlight is on (from the settings)
20:26:54XavierGrno forget that wrong connection
20:27:08XavierGr(although I can get both :) )
20:27:10 Quit haemmy ()
20:28:35amiconnThe SH7034 can provide 1mA against ground when pulling high, and 8mA against Vcc when pulling low. Everything else is out of specs
20:28:51amiconnAnd the backlight GPIO is active high
20:30:15XavierGrsorry it seems I can't follow you :\. my current setup is:ground from the right pad above the 220 chip
20:30:58XavierGrand a signal that gives 3.3 volts according to the backlight setttings which is located just below the lcd white stickers
20:31:21XavierGrwithout any resistance I get 17mA when the backlight setting is on
20:31:32XavierGrshould I just leave it there or it will hurt the hardware>
20:31:33XavierGr?
20:33:48DanielWis there a way to find out what WPS are working without trying them all?
20:33:55amiconnYes, and you're drawing more from the port pin than the specs allow
20:34:21amiconnIt may or may not hurt the chip permanently, there's simply no guarantee
20:34:35amiconnThe specs say 1mA. If you draw more, you're on your own
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20:35:13XavierGrhmm playback seems to be quite fine, but I get a lot of static from radio
20:37:17linuxstbamiconn: I'm thinking of using wavrecord on my recv1 to record something - would you trust it to perform a 1-hour recording from the analogue line-in reliably?
20:38:10 Join I [0] (i=43b875e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2a18db4bb9ff3893)
20:38:51Iwho handles wiki management?
20:39:04I[user] management
20:39:27linuxstbEvery wiki user with write access does.
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20:40:50amiconnlinuxstb: I would expect it to
20:41:05amiconnI recorded a full CD just fine while testing
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20:41:18 Nick I is now known as I222 (i=43b875e9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b08ce0994fabfa81)
20:41:38I222is it possible to remove me from the wiki?
20:41:41amiconnlinuxstb: Just be aware that recording will stop shortly before the file reaches 2GB
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20:41:59linuxstbamiconn: OK, I'll give it a go. Yes, I saw that in your commit message.
20:42:01amiconn(or if you run out of space of course...)
20:42:29I222I sent an email to twiki@haxx.se on 5/17
20:42:30linuxstbAm I right in thinking it can record at 48KHz?
20:42:50amiconnyes
20:43:14amiconnmono/stereo and all standard sample rate from 8 to 48kHz
20:43:19peturI222: talk to Bagder or LinusN here
20:43:26amiconn16 Bit sample depth is fixed
20:43:57peturI222: what's your wiki name btw?
20:44:12linuxstbThat's good. I want to use the recording on a DVD, so would prefer to record at 48KHz directly, rather than resampling.
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20:45:12I222petur, xxinfamisxx@yahoo.com
20:45:15amiconnlinuxstb: How do you encode to ac3?
20:45:29linuxstbI don't - I'll just keep it as uncompressed PCM
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20:45:48I222I don't feel I deserve to be there as I haven't contributed anything
20:45:52amiconnhmm
20:46:04*amiconn thought that an ac3 audio track is mandatory...
20:46:45peturI222: not your e-mail, the name you choose as wiki name. Other than that, there are more people in there that didn't contribute so it's not so bad. They'll get removed on periodic cleaning ;)
20:47:31linuxstbamiconn: I wouldn't know, as the DVD specs are secret. But I've made lots of DVDs with either LPCM or MP2, and had no problems.
20:48:03linuxstbNTSC DVD players sometimes don't support MP2, in which case LPCM has always worked.
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20:48:55I222petur, http://tinyurl.com/2knuqt is a link to the TwikiUsers page
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20:51:30I222Bagder or LinusN, please remove wiki account linked to by http://tinyurl.com/2knuqt - you can email to confirm, thank you
20:51:38 Quit I222 ("CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)")
20:53:35peturpfff... Either I222 isn't who he claimed he was or he forgot he actually contributed a WPS for the X5
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20:59:49I222yeah I know I "contributed" a WPS but seriously that WPS is embarrassing; but like I said you can email me to confirm, alright thanks
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21:24:41XavierGr*sigh*
21:24:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:25:00XavierGramiconn you were right, it isn't possible to put a normal led near the screen
21:25:08XavierGrI guees I have to find SMD leds then
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21:50:53n1sIf I want to group members of a struct together to make it as efficient as possible, how should I do that?
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21:51:45mpeccorinin1s: it depends on the CPU
21:51:48webguest46Who likes Cheetoes?
21:52:05n1smpeccorini: ok, care to elaborate?
21:52:53mpeccorinin1s: for instance, if the register is 32 bits, you should arrange variables together in groups of 32 bits
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21:53:24mpeccorininever put first a variable of 2 bytes and the a variable of 4 bytes
21:53:48mpeccorinibecause the second variable would not fit in the first block
21:53:52mpeccoriniand so on
21:54:30n1sso in that case group 2-bytr varables in pairs of two?
21:54:36n1sbyte
21:54:42mpeccoriniyep
21:54:55mpeccoriniand 1 byte variables in groups of four
21:55:21mpeccorinijust a silly question, are there pairs of a different number than two?
21:55:36mpeccoriniLOL
21:55:43n1summm, dunno :-)
21:56:20mpeccoriniI'm not sure if I'm explaining the idea right (english is not my native language)
21:57:01n1smpeccorini: sounds logical, I just wonder where I can find this info for the rockbox targets' cpus
21:57:37mpeccorinin1s: no idea :( but I would guess all the CPU's will be either 16 bit or 32 bit
21:58:01n1smpeccorini: I think they are all 32, so that means a register is 32 bit?
21:58:02mpeccorinin1s: and, if you properly arrange members in groups of 16 bits, they will be properly arranged for 32 and 64 bits too
21:58:23mpeccorinin1s: yes, that's what it means
21:58:48mpeccorinin1s: that carries a lot of other consecuences, like the size of the instruction, the maximum addressable memory and so on
21:58:55mpeccorinibut basically, that's what it means
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21:59:26n1sok, and the size of varables depend on both the cpu and the compiler, right?
22:00
22:00:00peturand for ARM based targets (ipods,...) shorts must be on an address that's a multiple of 2, ints on a multiple of 4 (iirc)
22:00:01mpeccorinin1s: I think they only depend on the compiler, but in the end, the compiler depends on the CPU :p
22:00:29linuxstb_n1s: I assume by "efficient" you're referring to code-size?
22:00:46n1sso how do I ask gcc for what sizes it uses? whithout making a funky sizeof plugin?
22:00:50mpeccorinipetur: but the compiler will take care of that, won't it?
22:01:11peturdon't think so
22:01:20n1slinuxstb_: well, yes, how would I do it if I want max speed?
22:01:21mpeccorinin1s: I was just about to suggest the funky sizeof plugin :p
22:01:24peturdepends I think
22:01:49mpeccorinin1s: but I guess you can also make some plain research on the subject
22:01:53peturjust don't do anything like { short a; int b; }
22:02:28n1spetur: that will Data abort, right?
22:02:37Nico_Ppetur: if you just want a short and an int, what other choice do you have ?
22:02:38*n1s doesn't have any ARM targets
22:02:39peturprobably
22:02:47*petur neither
22:02:56Nico_Ppetur: I think it will just be sotred in 8 bytes
22:03:03Nico_Por stored
22:03:03*mpeccorini does
22:03:05linuxstb_n1s: In this case, speed and code-size are probably the same. But I agree with amiconn's suggestion that the only way to find out what's causing the problem is some disassembly.
22:04:46mpeccorinior sorted LOL
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22:04:53n1slinuxstb_: well, I'm no good in dissassembly, I tracked down the increase in size to playback.o for coldfire builds at least, alsso if anyone wants to check it out I have made objdumps of the different playback.o files, but they don't tell me much except that there are lots of differences
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22:05:03mpeccorinior rosted
22:05:09toffe82n1s: this book has a really good explanation about how to arrange the variables for arm processor ( and a lot more interesting things) : http://www.arm.com/documentation/books/4975.html
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22:05:58n1stoffe82: thanks
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22:09:17Learn1s: I'm fairly fluent in ColdFire assembly, so I could take a look at that.
22:11:33n1sLear, thanks, i uploaded the objdumps here http://home.student.uu.se/niwa5341/
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22:12:12LearOuch, even the dumps show big size differences... :)
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22:17:39XavierGrhaha this must be the most suckiest mod ever
22:17:44XavierGr(picture following)
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22:20:23XavierGrmy ondio backlight: http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/6336/img0205da7.jpg
22:20:25Learn1s: Care to try one thing? Make a patched build with -fstrength-reduce enabled...
22:20:37Nico_PLear: have you see this ? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10742.0
22:20:52XavierGrbetter than nothing but then again, it is sucky as hell!
22:20:56n1sLear: sure
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22:22:00XavierGrlets hope that my ondio will hold up the mA from the LED
22:22:17LearNico_P: No, didn't see that. Don't really know anything about what makes m4b m4b...
22:22:41Nico_Pwell actually M4B is M4A with a different extension :)
22:22:51Nico_Pbut they often have chapters and pictures embedded
22:23:17Nico_Pthe b stands for "bookmarkable"
22:23:39Bagder"This is one of the largest open-source teams in the world, and is in the top 2% of all project teams on Ohloh."
22:24:09Bagder55 committers the last 12 months
22:24:20LearNico_P: Yes, that's about as much as I know. Might be some extra atoms there, but if so, I don't know what they mean...
22:24:55Nico_PLear: there are 4 tracks in my M4B files
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22:25:21Nico_Paudio, chapter titles as subtitles, pictures, and URLS as subtitles
22:25:46Bagderopenoffice has 160 committers the last 12 months...
22:26:46Nico_PBagder: where is this from ?
22:26:51n1sLear: well the -fstrength-reduce option dropped it from 410,2 KB to 408,6 KB, svn is 409,2 btw
22:26:52*petur registered himself on ohloh
22:26:55Bagderwww.ohloh.net
22:27:05Bagdervery cool site
22:27:12peturindeed it is
22:27:17 Quit lowlight ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:27:34*n1s has apparently comitted more comments than code :-)
22:27:44XavierGrhmm smd leds could indeed come handy for the backlight mod
22:28:10Learn1s: But have you compared patched and svn with strength-reduce?
22:28:27n1snope not yet, will do
22:29:04LearInteresting cost estimate... :)
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22:30:04Nico_PLear: do you think it would be possible to add chapter reading to MP4 ?
22:30:14 Join entheh [0] (n=purr@88-106-177-93.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
22:30:30n1sLear ah svn wiht -fstrength-reduce is 407,6 still 1KB smaller than the patched... although I have been able to shrink the difference to about 100bytes by rearranging some structs
22:31:03LearNico_P: Don't see why not, but it'd require someone to figure out what to do...
22:31:41n1sand with -fstrength-reduce that is still 100 larger
22:31:47Nico_PLear: MP4Box knows how to so maybe a look at tht code would help
22:32:19*petur brings the sad news that the selling of signed beer bottles wasn't such a good idea and will result in 0 euro extra funding :(
22:32:26Learn1s: well, I think the difference in struct size/field offsets causes gcc to generate worse code.
22:33:25Bagderpetur: :-(
22:33:26Learn1s: For the FOR_NB_SCREENS case, I noticed that gcc generated strange code to handle moving to the next screen in the array, and strength-reduce helped there.
22:33:27 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:34:01Learn1s: Was hoping something similar could help here...
22:34:15peturBagder: well we tried.... no harm done...
22:34:37pixelmapetur: should have sold a full bottle to preglow ;)
22:34:41 Part TrueJournals
22:34:48peturhehe
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22:36:53Nic0_Pproblem with my internet connection
22:37:09webguest89hi can anyone tell me where i can download the ipod bootloader? please?
22:38:21 Quit Nico_P (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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22:40:08Learn1s: I think tracks array is the primary culprit here; the code generated to handle "&tracks[track_ridx]" isn't really pretty, and if the sizes are wrong, things get noticably worse...
22:40:57n1sLear: yeah, that's where I was able to reclaim most of the size, by rearranging the track_info struct
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22:43:41Nico_Pwow rockbox is worth $6 million ??
22:44:12Nico_Pvery impressive
22:44:14n1sNico_P: nope, it's not worth a penny, costed 6 million to make tho... _)
22:44:19n1s:-D
22:45:53Learn1s: Btw, current code uses 20 bytes on ColdFire just to figure out where in memory "tracks[index]" is (26 with patch). All to avoid a mulu...
22:46:58n1sLear: and it acceses that a fair bit of times, right?
22:47:06Learn1s: you are aware that changing the track_info struct (and thus the id3 struct) can break the codec API?
22:47:12LearIndeed it does...
22:47:53n1sLear: hmm, well, I'm just playing around now, will not commit anything without asking more nkowledgable people :-)
22:48:01pixelmaXavierGr: is the backlight driven by rockbox? If so, I'm still impressed :)
22:48:38Nico_Pn1s: I'll probably be moving that around soon anyway
22:48:49Learn1s: Just wanted to mention it. The struct has been updated many a time without bumping the codec API... :)
22:48:56n1sNico_P: ah, ok
22:49:20 Part maffe
22:49:28n1sLear: maybe it should be in acomment somewhere :-)
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22:54:32LearJust did a quick count of tracks[] accesses. Assuming each access got a 6 byte bump, that explains the total size bump.
22:54:45n1sLear: wow
22:55:07 Quit bluey- ("Leaving")
22:55:30LearSo padding the struct size to some nice round number could probably cut 1.5 kB or so.
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22:56:24n1sLear, I think that is what those longs I tried to remove did then...
22:57:33LearYep, gcc needed more instructions to do the "sizeof(*tracks) * index" calculation.
22:58:13n1sLear: aha, well that makes sense
22:58:16LearIgnoring the fact that on this CPU, a single instruction (well, maybe two) would be much faster.
22:58:56n1sLear: Does it behave the same on your gcc 4.1
22:58:58 Join Arckon [0] (i=473c3370@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-bd9206933f088268)
22:59:58Arckonhas anyone noticed issues with comment tags in id3v2.3 tags in any builds of rockbox?
23:00
23:01:09 Join webguest74 [0] (i=43ad8a99@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-a8737aae3dc50dcf)
23:01:29webguest74hi can anyone help me install rockbox on my ipod video plz?
23:01:43webguest74i just downloaded the current build.
23:02:05LearDon't use 4.x, but when I did try > 4.0, I never really looked for that stuff...
23:02:09n1swebguest74: have you also checked the manual?
23:02:11webguest74it wont work it says it cant find it and its in the main disk drive.
23:02:17webguest74yes
23:02:22webguest74i read part of it
23:02:54webguest74do i need a new boot loader?
23:02:59n1swebguest74: did you install the rockbox bootloader with the ipodpatcher tool
23:03:14webguest74do i need a new one?
23:03:23webguest74i have an old one.
23:03:30n1swebguest74: how old?
23:03:38webguest74like a month.
23:03:40webguest74or more
23:04:08n1sok, then you should update it, just use ipodpatcher and install a new one and it should update
23:04:08webguest74i think its about two months old actually
23:04:42webguest74i tried looking for it but i cant find it can u tell me where i can find it please?
23:05:19n1swebguest74: ther's a link in the installation chapter in the manual
23:05:31webguest74oh ok ty
23:05:37webguest74thank you
23:05:45webguest74oh 1 more thing...
23:06:15webguest74how should the rockbox folder appear? i mean its name.
23:06:23webguest74it says rockbox
23:06:27n1swith a . in front
23:06:31webguest74should it be .rockbox?
23:06:32n1s.rockbox
23:06:35n1syes
23:06:43webguest74its missing the period
23:06:51webguest74and i can't put it in
23:07:01n1swebguest74: how did you unzip it?
23:07:17webguest74some program called bit zipper
23:07:42webguest74let me try again
23:07:46n1sdo you have a folder called .rockbox inside the rockbox folder on your ipod?
23:08:00webguest74oh let me check
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23:11:25webguest74no there is no folder called .rockbox inside rockbox
23:11:42n1swebguest74: so what is inside it?
23:11:46n1s./ro
23:11:55webguest74some other stuff
23:12:00webguest74other folders
23:12:12 Quit jack_ (Remote closed the connection)
23:12:15n1slike rocks, codecs etc?
23:12:22webguest74yeah that stuff
23:12:32webguest74but no folder
23:13:09n1swebguest74: ok, then you just have to make sure that you rockbox folder is named .rockbox with the perion in front
23:14:02webguest74yeah but itried downloading it and it doesnt have a period...and i tried puting it in myself but it doesnt work it says "must be file name"
23:14:22n1swebguest74: which operating system are you using
23:14:40webguest74what do you mean?
23:14:45webguest74like windowes or mac?
23:14:49n1syes
23:14:55webguest74windows
23:15:08saratogadownload a zip program that works properly then
23:15:15webguest74ok
23:15:15saratoga7zip, winrar, whatever
23:15:24webguest74ok thyak you
23:15:29webguest74thank you
23:15:37webguest74: )
23:15:42n1swebguest74: or try this program http://download.rockbox.org/rbutil/win32/rbutil-v0.3.2.zip
23:16:00webguest74thanks
23:16:44webguest74oh thank you
23:16:58webguest74i've been looking for that like so long....
23:17:05webguest74Thank You!!
23:17:08webguest74: )
23:20:11*n1s manages to get binsize difference with the removed struct members to become +-0 :-)
23:22:54Arckonhas anyone noticed issues with comment tags in id3v2.3 tags in any builds of rockbox?
23:25:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:26:37webguest74it worked thank you
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23:35:23webguest35hey this is RockBox IRC right?
23:35:34n1swebguest35: yes
23:35:50webguest35does rockbox support playing videos on the iPod Photo 4th gen?
23:36:05n1swebguest35: yes
23:36:20webguest35what format must they be in?
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23:36:34n1smpeg1 or mpeg 2
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23:36:53webguest35where can i find a page on RochBox w/ instructions on how to convert vids?
23:37:06markunthe wiki page PluginMpegplayer
23:37:19webguest35Awesome, thanks much n1s!
23:37:53saratogamy diff is picking up lots of changes that aren't really changes
23:37:53 Quit webguest35 (Client Quit)
23:38:03Faemiron the website it says that you can't duel-boot officially on cowon iaudios... does that mean you would have to wipe the original firmware to have rockbox?
23:38:09saratogalots of lines where the old and new version are identical
23:38:13saratogaany idea what cases that?
23:38:17Bagdersaratoga: newline differences?
23:38:34saratogai added the −−ignore-space option
23:39:36Bagder−−strip-trailing-cr might be better
23:39:55Bagder(since sometimes space changes are wanted)
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23:40:10XavierGrpixelma: yes it is rockbox driven, though I am afraid that it might drain too much current, time will tell.
23:40:41saratogaBagder: http://pastebin.ca/526613
23:41:00XavierGrMy plan was to implement it with a transistor as a switch and not be concerned with the current, but there is no place for that.
23:41:18XavierGrtomorrow I will try to get some smd leds in my hands, it will be much better with these little leds
23:41:31Bagdersaratoga: that looks like a trailing space
23:42:02 Quit The-Compiler (Remote closed the connection)
23:43:11linuxstb_saratoga: Some editors will strip trailing spaces...
23:43:23 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
23:44:44 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:44:56Arckoncan someone please tell me if any changes were made to reading id3 tags from files? I just updated from an earlier build from a few months ago to EvilG's latest Fusion build on my Ipod 5.5 gen 30 GB
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23:46:02n1sArckon: we don't suppor unofficial builds here, ask questions about it in the relevant thread in the unsupported builds section of the forum
23:46:44Arckonok thank you
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23:46:59linuxstbArckon: Have you checked the id3v1/id3v2 preference setting is still what you want it to be?
23:47:15ArckonI wasn't sure if the issue was directly related to an unofficial build or not though
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23:47:40ArckonI have the setting set to id3v2 first
23:48:00linuxstbWhy don't you try an official build?
23:48:16ArckonI have never made any changes to my tags, but I noticed that the newer build I am using seems to have issues with comment tags in my files
23:48:37ArckonI keep noticed that some of my files are coming up as <untagged> in the track names
23:49:05Arckonall of my files have id3v2.3 tags
23:50:07ArckonI use mp3Tag to tag my files. I also use the ISO setting for id3v2.3 tags
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