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#rockbox log for 2007-06-25

00:00:47Soapgimp has a descreen filter IIRC, works pretty well regardless of scan resolution.
00:00:58scorchefirst order of business is finding the magazine...
00:02:12 Join Wiwie [0] (n=goddi@p5B099026.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:02:27scorchewhich i am utterly failing at
00:05:03 Quit rasher ("leaving")
00:06:08 Quit ptw419 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:07:24 Quit Juice^ ("Leaving")
00:08:40peturdoes rockboy really work on the recorder?
00:09:36 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:09:37 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
00:09:41pixelmayes, it works but is slooow
00:09:57 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
00:10:29 Quit webguest95 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:11:49peturwell at the moment it will no longer work ;)
00:13:58Rob2222has the H300 USB OTW, yet?
00:14:03Rob2222-w+g
00:14:11peturyes
00:14:17Rob2222:D
00:14:19Rob2222wow
00:15:21*petur wonders why the #if CONFIG_CODEC == SWCODEC && !defined(SIMULATOR) line was removed in rbsound.c
00:15:25saratogaUSB OTW == USB OTG?
00:15:39scorche<Rob2222> -w+g
00:15:39petur[00:14] <Rob2222> -w+g
00:15:46peturheh
00:15:57saratogathats not proper regex
00:16:19scorches/OTW/OTG
00:16:30pixelmaFTW :P
00:16:39scorcheLOL
00:16:56scorcheoye...i cnat even say that in jest without my stomach curdling up =/
00:18:04 Quit HellDragon (Remote closed the connection)
00:18:41Rob2222yes, i meaned OTG. Does it have it? If yes, how to activate?
00:18:52peturin rockbox? not yet
00:18:58peturgo to the OF
00:19:20 Join HellDragon [0] (n=JD@unaffiliated/helldragon)
00:20:49Rob2222ah ok. i just asked cause i read some OTG thing ion wiki and changelog.
00:21:24Rob2222OF is almost unusable with a80GB disk full with files. it takes years to load.
00:21:47peturaustriancoder is working on a usb stack (device) while I sometimes look at maybe getting a host stack working
00:21:50Rob2222I think I have never used the OF since rockbox has audio on H300 ;)
00:22:40 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@82.152.96.77)
00:22:54Rob2222well, I wish good luck. but for sure OTG is not the most important thing
00:23:00 Join pixelma_ [0] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:23:11 Quit pixelma (Nick collision from services.)
00:23:11 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:24:01Rob2222is there any newer rockbox device that support >60GB that is newer than the irivers and not an ipod? (i hat the wheel)
00:24:18peturgigabeat?
00:24:43peturit also supports mk8007gah
00:25:04Rob2222is it the same hd connector as in h300?
00:25:09Rob2222(= non zif)
00:25:11Rob2222?
00:25:23peturyes
00:25:34Rob2222coool
00:26:04peturbut gigabeats are also rare :/
00:26:20peturyou need an F or X model I think
00:26:21linuxstbNot in toffe's house...
00:26:30peturhahaha
00:26:40Rob2222lol
00:26:51Rob2222is it smaller than a h300?
00:27:59linuxstbIt's slightly smaller than my H140 - same width and height, but thinner. I don't know how the h300 compares to the h140...
00:28:15Rob2222340 is bigger
00:28:19Rob2222i had both
00:28:39Rob2222is the 40gb gigabeat with a 2 platter or 1 platter toshiba disc? anyone know?
00:28:47linuxstbThere are both
00:28:54Rob2222ebay just sola a 40gb gigabeat for 140 euros :(
00:28:55linuxstbThe F41 is 1 platter, the F40 is 2 platter.
00:29:15linuxstbThe F41 is even rarer than the F40 though I think.
00:29:16Rob2222damn, was an F40
00:29:54linuxstbRob2222: Just remembered this page - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/HardDriveReplacement
00:30:46Rob2222ahhh, cool. ths :)
00:30:49Rob2222x
00:31:11linuxstbIt may not be 100% accurate yet - it's a relatively new page and is still being completed.
00:32:00Rob2222yep. from the hareware the first creative nomad jukebox zen was damn nice
00:32:05*petur wonders if http://pastebin.com/935567 would be an acceptable fix for the red builds
00:32:32Rob22222,5" hd, height and width almost exact as the 2,5"hd and thinner than the h340
00:32:43peturI know nothing about those archos devices. I just know that code does compile
00:33:38peturshould I just commit it saying 'fix red, may not actually run'?
00:33:43linuxstbpetur: I don't think you need to put the !defined(SIMULATOR) back - sound should work in the sim
00:34:52peturshall I ?
00:35:17linuxstbThat buffer doesn't look aligned...
00:35:41peturhmmm right
00:35:50 Quit Thundercloud (Connection timed out)
00:36:21linuxstbIf it needs to be 4-byte aligned, you could just declare it as an int array.
00:37:20linuxstbBut if there is no PCM output, it seems wasteful to declare a buffer (and presumably to fill it)
00:39:03 Quit pixelma (" reboot :/")
00:39:42peturfrrr it's not my bug to fix, just wanted to do the quick fix
00:40:31peturthat buffer was never 4byte aligned was it?
00:42:10peturand I don't quite understand the BUFSIZE/sizeof(short) - pcm.len is number of ints?
00:42:42linuxstbI'm not sure. I don't think you need to declare the buffer though - pcm_submit() is only called in two place. 1) sound.c, surrounded by if(pcm.buf). and 2) emu.c, surrounded by if(options.sound)
00:43:07peturso just make it NULL?
00:43:46linuxstbYes, and make options.sound equal to 0 - in rockboy.c I think.
00:44:00 Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@212.204.47.129)
00:45:10linuxstbe.g. at the end of setoptions, just add #if (whatever for HWCODEC) options.sound=0
00:45:31linuxstbBut this is getting messy....
00:46:02peturpcm_submit does nothing anyway so it should be ok?
00:46:12linuxstbAh, true...
00:47:57peturhttp://pastebin.com/935575 it shall be...
00:48:13peturbah
00:48:18petursize must be 0 too
00:51:59 Join jas6180 [0] (n=jas6180@c-71-202-129-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
00:55:17 Quit moos ("Glory to Rockbox")
00:56:03saratogawhat does the "*PANIC* Stkov main" error message mean?
00:56:11peturstack overflow
00:56:44saratogaso i'm basically just declaring too much memory in a function somewhere?
00:56:44peturyou're consuming too much stack again ;)
00:56:53peturprobably
00:57:14saratogacan i print out the stack usage on the UI sim?
00:57:21saratogathat would be very helpful for me to know
00:58:05linuxstbMaybe gdb could do it, but I don't know how.
00:58:15jas6180are you recursing like mad or have a big array that's going onto the stack or something? those are the usual ways you run into trouble, although i have no idea how big the stack is for rockbox
00:58:43markunkkurbjun: when are you going to fix it?
00:58:46petur8k I think it was
00:58:51saratogaah, found a huge array
00:58:57saratogathats got to be it
00:58:59 Quit Wiwie ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
00:59:59peturmarkun: I committed a quickfix for archos, but don't know what to do for h1x0 - I guess the rotate stuff consumes too much iram?
01:00
01:01:33jas6180i don't suppose there is some way to make repeated button presses happen more quickly, is there?
01:01:55jas6180(in a plugin)
01:04:11markunsaratoga: slowly getting there?
01:04:29markuncan I expect a "It works!" in the logs when I wake up?
01:07:22saratogamarkun: no idea, i thought i'd have it a couple days ago
01:10:35saratogamarkun: I think you asked me about looking at it a couple days ago
01:10:57saratogaits all in #4984 if you're interested
01:11:09markunthanks
01:11:15markunbut not tonight
01:11:19saratogathough maybe not lite reading
01:11:24markun:)
01:11:51*petur leaves the rockboy iram stuff for somebody else and goes to bed
01:11:58 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
01:13:33*linuxstb wonders why the h1x0 needs a rotate option
01:15:41 Quit bdgraue (Remote closed the connection)
01:16:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:19:13saratogadoes it matter if i'm close to the RAM limit for a plugin?
01:19:23saratogai'm maybe 5kb short of the error message when I compile
01:19:35saratogacould that be related to my stack problems?
01:21:57 Quit PaulJam (".")
01:22:57jas6180oh that reminds me: is there a way to tell programatically how much RAM i have left over in a plugin? that would be really useful
01:23:26saratogajas6180: the closest I've come is to look at the map file
01:23:28 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@82.152.170.58)
01:23:31 Quit peppo ("quit")
01:24:06jas6180hmm
01:24:58linuxstbThere's a function to do it as well - plugin_get_buffer() (I think)
01:25:15jas6180oh cool, i'll look around for that
01:25:43linuxstbThat will return a pointer to the remaining buffer space, and tell you how big it is
01:27:17linuxstbsaratoga: For a test plugin like your's it doesn't matter. The stack is separate to the main plugin buffer.
01:27:46jas6180for a real plugin is there any problem with using up all the space available?
01:27:50linuxstbBut it would be bad for a real plugin, as it is very likely to break in the future.
01:28:52jas6180oh, yeah that's fine
01:30:50saratogathis map file is really interesting
01:30:58saratogaffmpeg uses 300KB worth of lookup tables
01:31:10 Quit obo ("bye")
01:34:01 Quit thegeek (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:38:02 Join Farpnut [0] (i=Farp@173.98.49.60.jb03-home.tm.net.my)
01:38:17linuxstbOuch...
01:38:27linuxstbAre they all needed for WMA?
01:40:27saratogaas currently implemented, yeah
01:40:33saratogahowever, a lot of them seem really dumb
01:40:53saratogatheres a trig look up table for each block size, and one for both ffts and MDCT rotations
01:41:07saratogait seems like with some effort there could be one table used for all that
01:43:57 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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01:46:31 Join Thundercloud__ [0] (n=thunderc@82.153.193.245)
01:46:41 Quit ender` (" MCSE = Moron Claiming System Expertise, Must Call Someone Else, or Minesweeper Champion, Solitaire Ex")
01:48:02 Quit Farp (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:48:02 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:48:29linuxstbsaratoga: Making the codec smaller will be a good thing anyway...
01:48:34 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
01:49:12 Quit Rincewind (Remote closed the connection)
01:49:36 Quit jas6180 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:51:40 Quit kubiix ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
01:52:52 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
01:55:29 Join jas6180 [0] (n=jas6180@c-71-202-129-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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02:00
02:00:19 Quit darkless (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:01:59 Join darkless [0] (n=darkless@62.79.44.48.adsl.vby.tiscali.dk)
02:02:11 Nick jas6180 is now known as mud-rockbox (n=jas6180@c-71-202-129-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
02:03:05 Quit billytwowilly (Remote closed the connection)
02:03:26 Join billytwowilly [0] (n=chris@S0106001346f5afbd.cg.shawcable.net)
02:06:32mud-rockboxis there some way in the simulator to print things to console for debugging?
02:07:00hcsthe DEBUGF() macro, which works like printf
02:07:11mud-rockboxthanks much
02:12:23 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:16:07 Quit ze (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:18:46 Quit Thundercloud__ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:22:13 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@c220-237-57-32.smelb1.vic.optusnet.com.au)
02:29:28mud-rockboxuh, does anyone know anything about the fsqrt function in plugins/lib/fixedpoint.h? specifically...does it work? it seems to be really off for even moderately big values
02:29:48 Quit hcs ("Leaving.")
02:32:35mud-rockboxoh calculator's square root seems fine, i'll go see what it's doing and copy
02:35:26mud-rockboxwoh, what...i thought floating point didn't work?
02:38:07linuxstbIt works, but very slowly.
02:38:32linuxstbSo it's fine in something like calculator where you're only perfoming one computation. But don't use it if you're doing many.
02:39:48mud-rockboxohh, i see. haha i thought it just didn't work at all, i was very confused to see it in calc...okay, that actually saves me a lot of trouble
02:41:40linuxstbIf you're working on something you hope to get added to Rockbox SVN, you'll be encouraged to avoid floats wherever possible though.
02:43:59mud-rockboxyeah, it's definitely not heavy usage, basically just storing a couple of them and addition probably twice per plugin run
02:53:45 Quit JdGordon (Remote closed the connection)
02:54:28RoC_MasterMindfloating point is ineffecient for the processor?
02:55:32 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
03:00
03:03:27 Part Soul-Slayer
03:06:27 Quit darkless (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:08:00 Join safetydan [0] (i=cbca159f@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
03:08:40safetydanRoC_MasterMind: floating point calculations have to be emulated by the integer part of the CPU. So yeah, they're really, really slow.
03:09:23RoC_MasterMindthanks.
03:10:35safetydanmud-rockbox: the fsqrt in the plugin lib is designed for fixed point use. It will produce garbage for floating point. it should be pretty good as it's used by the software equalizer
03:11:33mud-rockboxah i must have screwed up the usage somehow...maybe it was input as normal long, not fixed point or something
03:11:37mud-rockboxwants*
03:12:04mud-rockboxeither way i just hacked up something and it's working now
03:14:33 Part toffe82
03:15:20 Quit HellDragon ("reboot")
03:15:49 Join ze [0] (i=ze@cpe-76-175-22-254.socal.res.rr.com)
03:16:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:25:17 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com)
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03:40:52 Quit mud-rockbox (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
03:40:54 Join mud-rockbox [0] (n=jas6180@c-71-202-129-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
03:44:44 Quit scorche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:52:03 Join scorche [0] (n=_@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
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03:57:57 Join darkless [0] (n=darkless@62.79.44.48.adsl.vby.tiscali.dk)
03:58:36mud-rockboxthis isn't directly a rockbox question, but is it known how to disable the sansa e200 OF's "Refresh Database" thing? it's unbelivably annoying
03:59:55Lloreanmud-rockbox: If you're using an up to date bootloader, it should be disabled for Rockbox's use of the USB mode for most Sansa firmware versions.
04:00
04:00:02LloreanThough I think the newest one or two may not have it disabled.
04:00:15mud-rockboxoh, i'll try updating my bootloader
04:00:56 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:01:25JdGordonthe newest OF does something different so we cant disable the rebuild (or havnt found out how to)
04:01:47JdGordonwhich is painfully annoying because you cant downgrade to a working one and still be able to disable it
04:01:48 Quit maffe (Remote closed the connection)
04:01:51mud-rockboxah i see, actually that might be my problem, my e280 isn't very old and i updated the OF before i installed rockbox...
04:01:52 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF523A.dip.t-dialin.net)
04:03:45LloreanJdGordon: I thought the only non-downgradeable was the Hebrew supporting beta firmware.
04:04:55JdGordoni dunno, I've tried downrading mine to a known OF but i still get the rebuild and cant find any changes bits...
04:05:21LloreanAre you sure you downgraded?
04:05:45LloreanIt may not have actually loaded the older firmware
04:07:23JdGordonyep, its really got the older version on
04:08:05JdGordononce we can boot rockbox off the mSD card it wont make any difference anyway, updating rb is about the only time i connect to usb
04:08:30mud-rockboxoh, that would be really nice
04:09:28andrew__Llorean: its easy to wongrade from 1.3
04:09:32andrew__*downgrade
04:09:45andrew__I had did that before someone posted the 1.03 filenames
04:09:49Lloreanandrew__: Yes, but you have to rename the file.
04:10:03LloreanI meant more that it's just not obvious
04:10:13andrew__I just manually used dd to put in the file from one of the rockbox information pages
04:10:23andrew__onto the 20mb partition
04:10:56 Quit billytwowilly (Remote closed the connection)
04:10:56 Join chris_ [0] (n=chris@S0106001346f5afbd.cg.shawcable.net)
04:10:58 Nick andrew__ is now known as andrewg867 (n=andrew@stjhnf0124w-142162086216.pppoe-dynamic.nl.aliant.net)
04:11:05LloreanThat ought to work for any firmware version, ever, until the bootloader in flash changes.
04:11:16andrewg867yeah
04:11:35andrewg867and it was really nice to see someone finally finish that FM driver :)
04:11:36JdGordonhmm.. I actually have a copy of my old 20mb partition.. might try dding it back
04:11:53mud-rockboxhmm, is api->lcd_update() really expensive?
04:12:06mud-rockboxlike, does it take a real world noticable amount of time?
04:12:12andrewg867JdGordon: no promises, I just did that because it was my only option between returning it to the store if I corrupted it
04:13:25andrewg867you can run an older firmware with a newer bootloader, I'm pretty sure
04:13:29linuxstbmud-rockbox: That depends on which device you're using.
04:13:32andrewg867just call it firmware.mi4
04:14:03andrewg867for example, 1.02 firmware on the 1.03 bootloader
04:14:04linuxstbmud-rockbox: This page has some benchmarks - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LcdFrameRate
04:15:09 Join GodEater_ [0] (n=bryan@bb-87-80-121-64.ukonline.co.uk)
04:15:16mud-rockboxoh, thanks...yeah i think i'm doing something else wrong, my drawing is taking like 1 second which makes the input really laggy
04:15:58linuxstbHow are you drawing?
04:16:09 Quit GodEater (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:16:22mud-rockboxlots of lcd_hline and lcd_vline mostly
04:16:31linuxstbWhat do you mean by lots?
04:16:54mud-rockboxprobably... about 300 or so, and maybe 4 fillrects
04:17:17mud-rockboxthat shouldn't be that slow, right?
04:17:46linuxstbWhich target are you testing on?
04:17:51mud-rockboxsansa e280
04:18:30JdGordonmud-rockbox: your not doing multiple lcd_updaterect s are you?
04:18:40JdGordonon the sansa an update rect does a full update i think
04:18:53mud-rockboxno, just one lcd_update
04:19:05mud-rockboxoh, setting foreground color isn't expensive is it? i do that a few times
04:19:11linuxstbYou're saying it takes about 1 second to draw 300 lines and 4 fillrects?
04:19:31mud-rockboxhaha, well it seems to, i need to do some profiling to figure out what's lagging i guess...
04:20:41mud-rockboxoh oh, false alarm...haha...stupid mistake
04:20:51mud-rockboxit's fast now
04:23:03andrewg867JdGordon: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3225.msg63355#msg63355 is the post :)
04:24:32JdGordoncheers
04:24:41andrewg867oh and does anyone notice random de-syncs of the audio DAC's I2S bus (I assume) when skipping throughs songs fast on the sansa?
04:25:21andrewg867it happens to me randomly when I got through files fast without waiting a couple seconds for the song to start playing
04:25:28andrewg867*go through
04:25:58mud-rockboxhmm, i haven't noticed it on mine
04:26:16andrewg867I have crossfading enabled which might be partly to blame
04:26:21saratogaflash access used to be pretty slow on the sansa
04:26:31saratogathat might be an issue still if you're forcing it to acess the disk while playing
04:27:43andrewg867it sounds as if the I2S bus becomes de-synced because it is a loud white noise sound like an FM radio untuned
04:27:51saratogaoh wow
04:27:59andrewg867if it happens again I will record it
04:28:14andrewg867I will try to make it happen right now ;)
04:28:49mud-rockboxthat sounds pretty scary, that hasn't happened for me, i just tried to jam on skip track for a bit and it seems fine
04:29:21andrewg867It doesn't happen very often though
04:29:26saratogaif you can reproduce it, I suggest letting Austrian Coder know
04:29:52andrewg867and wtf was that
04:30:00andrewg867that was really weird
04:30:10andrewg867you know that screen white -> purple bug
04:30:22andrewg867it just happened before the main screen on the real firmware...
04:31:02andrewg867it was the bootloader logo, white, black (firmware loading) then fade to purpleish then the main screen came up
04:31:04Lloreanandrewg867: Are you using the last bootloader from the sansapatcher.exe, or an SVN current one?
04:31:22andrewg867I used one fro a month or so back
04:31:39LloreanDid you compile it yourself, or is it the one from sansapatcher.exe?
04:31:44andrewg867I have the newest rockbox though, I can update it right now since it needs to be charged
04:32:01andrewg867I'm pretty sure it was from sansapatcher.exe
04:32:09andrewg867which one do you recommend?
04:32:13LloreanTry compiling one yourself and using sansapatcher to -a it.
04:32:40andrewg867time to start the development VM :)
04:33:38LloreanThere were changes to fix the screen purpling thingy, but since they have to do with hardware init, I suspect a new bootloader would be relevant to them.
04:35:25andrewg867compiled, is sansapatcher.exe on download.rockbox.org?
04:35:48LloreanYeah
04:35:51 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:35:55andrewg867can't I just rename the mi4 to firmware.mi4 as I always did to update the firmware?
04:35:56LloreanAll you need to compile is the bootloader file
04:36:16LloreanIf you do that you won't have dual boot, which is kinda necessary to access USB mode
04:36:18 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF4542.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
04:36:32andrewg867Llorean: how so?
04:37:12LloreanBecause the original firmware is stored in the firmware partition, and if you use recovery mode on a Rockbox mi4 file (bootloader or Rockbox itself) it'll overwrite it?
04:37:19andrewg867I always did it just by copying over the compiled mi4 to the root and rebooting, it installs the new "firmware" (rb bootloader) and it works as usual
04:37:37andrewg867I have the original firmware in \SYSTEM\OF.bin?
04:37:44LloreanYou told me you used sansapatcher...
04:38:08andrewg867at one point but that was early on before it copied and booted the firmware from the 20mb partition?
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04:38:33andrewg867I guess I haven't been around here for a while
04:39:07LloreanI don't know if the newest bootloaders will load of.bin, honestly.
04:39:15LloreanYou're expected to have it installed the way the manual describes it.
04:39:20LloreanIt might still have that function.
04:41:15andrewg867hrm it says I have the old bootloader
04:43:05andrewg867I wonder what chipset the Sandisk Sansa Connect has
04:44:25mud-rockboxyeah i looked at one of those in the store, they looked pretty nice actually
04:45:49andrewg867and according to the sandisk site the regular sansa's are cheaper than the R models
04:46:31mud-rockboxhmm, not in fry's when i got mine, but that doesn't necessarily mean much
04:47:13andrewg867the wiki should be updated, recording the FM radio in RB works fine for me (even directly encoding to mp3 :) )
04:48:16andrewg867I still can't seem to find the page on the sandisk site with the 1.03 firmware on it :/
04:49:33mud-rockboxoh good, i'm overflowing the stack
04:50:15Lloreanandrewg867: The 1.03 was the beta, right?
04:51:21andrewg867yeah, I just found a rapidshare link when you said that
04:52:00LloreanI think they took it down, officially.
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04:56:39andrewg867there is a new 01.02.18A though
04:56:54andrewg867aparently you can put videos on the microSD card now
05:00
05:02:20mud-rockboxoh, i guess the manual wasn't kidding when it said i have to call default_event_handler...it stack overflows if i dont and i hold power
05:03:51andrewg867I love how rockbox is somewhat louder than the original firmware ;)
05:04:36mud-rockboxhmm, i think mine is quieter
05:04:45mud-rockboxoh, that probably has something to do with replaygain
05:04:59andrewg867I just have the bass and trebel up on RB too
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05:16:50andrewg867uhh is the patch tracker broken?
05:17:07andrewg867er never mind, dillo is broken
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05:31:37andrewg867If I am getting "undefined refrence to '−−compound_literal.*'" where * is a random number does that mean my gcc is too old?
05:31:45scorcheyes
05:32:39andrewg867what version should I be using, mine is currently 4.0.2
05:33:05scorchethe wiki says
05:33:37mud-rockboxarm-elf-gcc says it's 4.0.3 on mine
05:33:39 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:33:59scorche4.0.3 is the correct version, yes
05:34:30andrewg867alright, thanks
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05:36:45mud-rockboxif i copy over a full dynamic allocation algorithm (public domain, so license is fine), is that going to hurt inclusion of a plugin into SVN?
05:40:10saratogasome of the plugins already have dynamic memory, so its probably ok unless its really ugly or impacticle
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05:40:23mud-rockboxah okay
05:40:37saratogawhat are you writing anyway
05:41:03scorchea mud? =)
05:41:19mud-rockboxgame recorder for go/baduk/weiqi/igo. really i don't need dynamic alloc, but i can steal gpl code really easily if i just use it
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05:42:08mud-rockboxand if i ever go insane and port gnugo like i'd like to, i think it will be required
05:42:47mud-rockboxhaha not writing a MUD, my name is mud ;)
05:44:05Lloreanscorche: Actually, I wrote a mud for the TI-86 once. Heh.
05:44:23LloreanSeeing gnugo (or any Go) for Rockbox would be really neat
05:44:51mud-rockboxyeah, porting gnugo scares me, but an SGF recorder will be really easy, i'll probably be finished-ish by tomorrow or so
05:45:43mud-rockboxif gnugo didn't use so much memory it would be a lot easier
06:00
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06:00:29 Join konam [0] (n=konam@102stb68.codetel.net.do)
06:01:19saratogai noticed a lot of the other malloc functions call rb->plugin_get_buffer to allocate memory
06:01:32saratogawhat is the advantage of doing this verses just statically allocating a buffer?
06:02:06mud-rockboxyou get all of the left over available memory, instead of having to keep changing it at compile time every time your code+data size changes
06:02:12mud-rockboxi think
06:12:50 Join rift_ [0] (n=opera@218.56.70-86.rev.gaoland.net)
06:16:15konami've downloaded the ipodnano 1st gen rockbox version and it looks a little bit 'ugly' did i download an outdated version?
06:16:35saratogawhere did you download from?
06:16:39mud-rockboxyou probably just need to change themes, the default one isn't very pretty
06:16:41konami've downloaded this: http://build.rockbox.org/dist/build-ipodnano/rockbox.zip
06:16:55saratogathats the current build
06:17:02konammud-rockbox but the fonts are a little bit small
06:17:16mud-rockboxyes, you can change the font
06:17:37saratogamight want to look through the manual
06:17:54konambut to one bigger than that right?
06:18:03konamwhich one do you recomend me?
06:18:22mud-rockboxtry the nimbus fonts, there's a lot of different sizes
06:18:30mud-rockboxnimbus-14 should be more than big enough
06:19:28saratogadoes anyone know what the endianness of the Gigabeat and Ipods is
06:20:26saratogaoh little endian
06:35:32konamit seems that there's a problem with my installation, it looks really bad and small compare to the ipodnano screen, very small
06:37:11mud-rockboxand have you tried differnt fonts and/or themes?
06:37:16safetydankonam, have you installed font pack?
06:37:21 Quit AdmiralJ ("Quitting")
06:37:37konamsafetydan no
06:38:06konammud-rockbox i've tried several themes, but the main menu looks very small
06:38:16mud-rockboxand fonts?
06:38:35mud-rockboxi think there's at least a few bigger fonts that come without even the fontpack, but i'm not certain
06:39:20safetydanmud-rockbox, I believe all fonts apart from the system font are separate downloads
06:39:31mud-rockboxah, i see. my bad
06:39:37safetydanI believe this is covered in the installation instructions in the manual
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06:40:40safetydankonma, go to http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxExtras and grab the fonts package and install that by unzipping it to your iPod
06:42:11konami've downloaded a theme, to install it i have to copy the files to differetn locations right?
06:42:39safetydankonam, most themes won't work until you install the fonts
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06:43:01konamsafetydan the them comes with a font
06:43:06konami guess is the font it needs
06:43:32konamtell me if i'm right about 'copy the files to different locations'?
06:43:41h4ngedm4nhow do i turn on dimming instead of display shutting off?
06:44:44mud-rockboxwhat exactly do you mean?
06:45:30safetydanI haven't really used themes much, but as I understand it, most should just be unzipped on to your iPod to install.
06:46:07h4ngedm4nwell originally, on the x5 it dims after say 10 seconds then shuts off display later, but i cant find any dimming configuration under rockbox
06:46:28konamjust unzip them to the ipod, i don't have to copy it to the themes folder or anything else?
06:46:34konamsafetydan well
06:46:57mud-rockboxthere's the backlight configuration, is that what you're looking for?
06:47:25h4ngedm4nyeah for having an intermediate dimming mode
06:48:07konammud-rockbox there are several files that i think i must put them in different directories in the ipod-rockbox tree
06:48:32mud-rockboxkonam: i wasn't the one that said that, but i'm rather sure you just unzip them to your player
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06:48:56mud-rockboxto the root directory of it that is
06:49:25safetydankonam, it will depend on the structure of the files in the .zip. If it is already laid out correctly, then yes it's just an unzip. If they're not correct, then you'll have to do it by hand.
06:49:33jurrieall properly packaged themes should be unzipped to your DAP's root (/).... all files included in the .zip files should go into /.rockbox
06:50:13jurriejust "unzip -l <mytheme.zip>" to see if they follow the conventions
06:52:05safetydanh4ngedm4n: I don't believe there's a dimming option for Rockbox for x5. You can control how long the back light stays on, and how quickly it fades in/out, but that's about it.
06:52:20konamok, done it
06:52:44konamis just unpacked and 'let it' reemplace the former folders
06:52:46h4ngedm4nsafetydan: ok thanks. whats the fade in/out option called?
06:53:09h4ngedm4nim in "LCD Settings" atm and dont see any fade config
06:53:11safetydanh4ngedm4n: it's under the LCD settings somewhere
06:53:12konamnow looks pretty good! thanks
06:54:00safetydanh4ngedm4n: odd, I have Backlight Fade In and Backlight Fade Out as settings on my h120 (which is the same CPU as the x5). Maybe no one has fading working on the x5 lcd...
06:54:45mud-rockboxyeah, those settings don't exist on e200 either, although that's not surprising since it's a newish port
06:55:12h4ngedm4nyeah probably not. i see Backlight, Backlight (While Plugged In), Backlight (On Hold Key), Caption Backlight, First Keypress Enables Backlight Only, Sleep (After Backlight Off), some others
06:55:34safetydanYup, just checked the source. Looks like backlight fading isn't available for the x5.
06:55:44h4ngedm4nimma just make it dim and leave it on for some long time
06:56:04safetydanbacklight eats battery very quickly though
06:56:16h4ngedm4neven when dimmed?
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06:56:51mud-rockboxhmm, is there some way for a plugin to disable the idle poweroff? or a "i'm doing stuff" function maybe?
06:57:04safetydanif it's the same as the h120 then it's actually worse when dimmed as it ups the cpu clock to make the backlight pwm smoother
06:57:29h4ngedm4ndamn lol
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06:59:52pirokoHello everyone!
06:59:56h4ngedm4nsorry to keep asking noob questions, but whats "Remote-LCD Settings" ?
07:00
07:00:11safetydanmud-rockbox: call rb->reset_poweroff_timer(); every so often. That's what the mpegplayer plugin seems to do
07:00:23mud-rockboxah, thanks
07:00:25safetydanh4ngedm4n: they're the settings for the lcd remote (if you have one)
07:00:37h4ngedm4nwhats an lcd remote?
07:00:48safetydanh4ngedm4n: a remote for your player that has an lcd screen
07:01:16h4ngedm4noh its one of those attachments you use to play/stop/forward/backward & show song title?
07:01:24mud-rockboxyes
07:01:45pirokoIs anyone specifically maintaining the flac codec? Because it's not working on my 4G grey iPod :-/
07:01:54RoC_MasterMinduh oh
07:02:09RoC_MasterMindit was working for me the other day on a recent build
07:02:14safetydanpiroko: are you getting an error message?
07:02:19RoC_MasterMindanything more specific piroko ?
07:02:21pirokoHmm... It just kinda sits there on mine
07:02:24pirokoNo errors
07:02:31safetydanNothing's changed in the flac code lately that I recall.
07:02:42pirokoThe play icon is there, the hd spins up for a bit, but then it just sits there. No time elapsed or anything
07:02:51mud-rockboxknown good flac files?
07:02:52pirokoIt's not locked up either
07:02:59pirokoYep. Tested on my computer
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07:04:28pirokoI used sound-juicer in linux to rip and encode the cd. I'm gonna try just using the commandline flac encoder for kicks
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07:05:37pirokoOk now that's weird.
07:05:43RoC_MasterMindTo be honest, piroko try rebooting the unit. I updated from 2/2006 to 6/2007 a few days ago, and noticed I actually got it confused...it was playing while paused and paused while the play icon was displayed...then a little later it froze.
07:06:02mud-rockboxis there some guide to the build system for plugins? i'm going to need more than one object file, and all of these makefiles look really messy
07:06:20pirokoThe command-line version encode plays fine
07:06:32pirokoI think sound-juicer uses an encoder from gst-plugins
07:06:39safetydanmud-rockbox: there's no guide but copying from one of the other multifile plugins. Generally you'll need to create your directory, Makefile, and SOURCES file.
07:06:48pirokoBut it still plays fine on my computer... Very strange :-/
07:08:15mud-rockboxsafetydan: i see...well maybe it's time to call it a day, these makefiles all hurt my head, there's like a million constants all over that i have no idea what they're refering to
07:08:46pirokoHere's the line that gstreamer gets fed to encode to flac, anything look strange?: audio/x-raw-int,rate=44100,channels=2 ! flacenc name=enc
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07:19:01pirokoI wish I knew what the gstreamer plugin does differently than the "official" flac encoder
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07:19:28mud-rockboxyeah that's odd if the official one won't work...
07:21:05pirokoI can't for the life of me find a decent CD ripping program in linux. Anyone have any suggestions?
07:22:59mud-rockboxi used to use grip, but it's been years
07:23:14mud-rockboxdon't remember it being horrible at least...
07:23:53scorchewell, the question is a bit off topic..
07:26:06pirokoI'm sorry. I thought it was at least semi-on topic because I'm trying to rip things FOR rockbox... :-/
07:28:28scorchethat said, grip is likely the most popular
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07:28:53LloreanI believe you have to override grip's desire to use ID3 tags, though
07:29:08scorchefor flac, likely
07:29:14scorchei havent really used it before
07:29:53LloreanYeah, for flac, but that was what was under discussion. ;)
07:30:08LloreanI seem to recall people coming in with flacs that had ID3 tags, and it was grip to blame, though I don't now if it's still a concern.
07:30:16scorchepiroko: i believe EAC will work in wine as well
07:30:36scorche(which is what i would use)
07:30:44pirokoI'm on a powerpc ;)
07:31:26pirokoLlorean: That could be the issue. Sound-juicer definitely used ID3 tags
07:31:31scorcheif we want to take this further, there is always qemu =P
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07:31:48pirokoscorche: Haha. I'd rather not have to wait a day for my cd to complete ;)
07:32:00scorcheqemu is actually quite fast...
07:32:04Lloreanpiroko: flac files should use vorbis comments for tagging
07:32:25pirokoLlorean: I'm gonna try to tag the files with grip (because it uses the flac program) and see if it kills rockbox again
07:34:13pirokoHmm... grip doesn't want to tag flacs... Would it be best if I just forget about tags and rely on filenames instead when dealing with flacs?
07:35:24LloreanOr just use something that tags them in vorbis comments...
07:35:39LloreanMost tools should be fine with this.
07:35:52pirokoI'm not familiar with any :(
07:36:28pirokoBasically, I have a lot of cd's to rip, and the more automated I can make this, the better
07:36:49pirokoI just don't wanna make a bunch of tracks that rockbox can't play
07:37:00LloreanPretty much every tool I've used has supported them, and used them by default.
07:37:09LloreanIn fact, the only program I knew of that didn't until now was grip.
07:37:19h4ngedm4ntry cdevour, its set up to work with a separate cdripper user you create
07:37:46h4ngedm4nand it records what it rips so it wont waste time re-ripping cds you stuck in and ripped successfully
07:37:51pirokoWoot. Bash scripting
07:38:01mud-rockboxhaha
07:38:10h4ngedm4nyeah its lightweight & straight up scripting, but i like it alot
07:38:26pirokoBut it appears to only support ogg :-/
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07:38:37h4ngedm4noh i thought u wanted ogg, my bad
07:39:08pirokoHaha. No biggie. Ogg works too. I'm not an audiophile. It'll probably be lighter on the cpu anyway
07:39:28daurnhey
07:39:36h4ngedm4nit decouples the rip & encode processes so u can get through the cd's asap while the computer catches up on encoding
07:39:46pirokoAwesome
07:39:58pirokoThat's the way I like it :-D
07:42:40pirokoIt can do flac! Hooray!
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07:43:33konammen, this firmware seems pretty good
07:43:41konami want to know something
07:44:05konamthe battery life is shorter with this firmware or with the original one?
07:44:16scorchethat depends on your device
07:44:18mud-rockboxit depends on the player
07:44:34konammine is an ipod nano 1st gen
07:44:39scorchethen yes it does
07:44:55konamin the system info says 9hrs left, that's pretty good for me
07:45:07scorchethe estimate is wrong
07:45:15Kostonthis is probably FAQ, but still. what's the problem with iPod nano (1st gen) getting weird memory error with any recent build?
07:45:17mud-rockboxin my experience, those estimates are more like wild guesses
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07:45:31scorcheKoston: i havent experienced that...
07:45:33LloreanKoston: What do you mean "weird memory error"?
07:45:39konamoh, so is much than that?
07:45:41scorcheKoston: are you using the latest bootloader?
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07:45:59Kostonscorche, ...probably not.
07:46:09mud-rockboxkonam: the real time left is a number basically not related to rockbox's estimate
07:46:28scorchewell, update to the latest bootloader and build, and then come back
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07:46:53Kostonschorche, ack, thanks.
07:47:05HellDragonschorche.
07:47:11konammud-rockbox so then, what is the stimate for, the devs didn't knew what they were doing?
07:47:48Lloreankonam: The estimate is code that works on other players, but is mostly useless because there's not proper calibration data programmed in for all the iPods yet.
07:47:51scorchekonam: it was a remnant from other devices that wasnt disabled or adapted to the ipod's particular battery, basically
07:47:51mud-rockboxkonam: welcome to the world of volunteers working on software that isn't released
07:48:04Lloreankonam: You're more than welcome to calibrate it and submit a patch.
07:48:48konamthat question was a 'sarcasm' it seems that i have to practice more
07:48:51konam:)
07:49:01konamdon't get mad at me, sorry
07:49:09scorcheno one got mad
07:49:27konambut the the battery life is more than the stimate?
07:49:32scorcheit depends
07:49:35scorchetypically less
07:49:48LloreanExpect somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 of what you get in the original firmware.
07:49:54LloreanA lot depends on your use habits, and your settings
07:50:23konamdamn it
07:50:33konamwell, i will have to test it myself
07:50:56scorchemake sure and test the OF under similar conditions as well ;)
07:51:55konamwell, the OF is tested with my own experience and every single day that i use it
07:52:08konami will use the ipod in the same way
07:52:25pirokoh4ngedm4n: How did you get cdevour to recognize your cd drive?
07:52:30ComputinChuckdo you guys have any use for the benchmark data collected with the plugin?
07:52:31konambut it will be hard to leave this firmware, i like it
07:52:35amiconnBagder: ping...
07:52:40ComputinChuckthe battery benchmark data that is
07:53:03konamLlorean where do you get those numbers?
07:53:18Lloreankonam: What numbers? The 1/2 to 2/3?
07:53:22konamyeah
07:53:37LloreanI listen a lot, and people talk a lot, and I put together a rough, rough estimate.
07:53:37konami could come back here with my results
07:54:16konamcool
07:54:33konamsee ya, thanks every one
07:54:48konami come back tomorrow
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08:10:01scorchehrm...was something done to logbot recently?...it no longer likes the "seen" command
08:10:35scorcheoh whoops...wrong logbot >_>
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09:02:24amiconnB4gder: Regarding the manual build problem on debian unstable - does this box still have tetex installed?
09:02:41B4gderyes
09:02:50B4gderthree tetex packages
09:03:01B4gder-bin, -base, -extra
09:03:16amiconnThere was a transition to texlive some time ago. During transition manual build didn't work anymore with tetex.
09:03:35 Quit davina_ (Remote closed the connection)
09:03:50B4gderaha
09:03:55amiconnAfter finishing the transition to texlive everything worked again
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09:05:31B4gderok, so maybe we should try to remove tetex and install texlive then
09:08:18B4gdertexlive was there already
09:08:29B4gderI just removed tetex*, and it seems the build works
09:09:26B4gderthe html zip too
09:09:28B4gderamiconn: thanks!
09:12:07amiconnIt's somewhat odd that doing the transition didn't remove tetex for you. It did here...
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09:46:00B4gderok, I hope to move the build.rockbox.org server later this week
09:46:32GodEaterwhere to ?
09:46:45B4gder(back) to the www.rockbox.org host
09:47:21B4gderthis should only have an effect if someone limits from where the rbclient is allowed to login from
09:47:44GodEaternot me
09:47:47GodEater:)
09:48:01B4gderotherwise I'll mostly stop it on the current host, copy everything and then start the script on the new place
09:48:45B4gderspeaking of servers
09:49:05B4gderthe mpegplayer wiki page points out mikachu's server for the mpegs, we don't have to do that anymore
09:49:30B4gderthey're now accessible fine on download.rockbox.org/mpeg/
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10:37:14XavierGryup quite strange B4gder: I had to do the same to get the manual running in VM
10:37:48XavierGrehm no now that I rethink I did something different
10:37:59B4gderhaha
10:38:08XavierGrinstalled tetex then live and then removed live and installed tetex again
10:39:56XavierGrspeaking of it, I didnt test you vmware image yet amiconn, sorry didn't find the time these days
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10:45:04senabsay i wanted to use the same image twice in a wps at different co-ordinates
10:45:21senabwould rockbox be clever enough to load the image just once?
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10:49:36petursenab: if nobody else here knows it, Nico_P is who you need to ask (or look at the code ;))
10:50:29senabi was going too, just thought it'd might be quicker to ask her first ;)
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11:20:55cropHello. IIUC, the RB port for zune isn't going to come any time soon because the hardware is protected against custom firmware. Is this the new trend? I.e. do other manufacturers do the same? If yes then RB is (pity!) a dead end.
11:21:30B4gderit's not new, they all do this
11:21:34JdGordonnice and optimistic of you crop :)
11:21:51B4gdereven the very first rockbox port was for a target trying to prevent it
11:22:02B4gderthe new here is that they are better at it
11:22:02cropB4gder: but now they do it right!
11:22:41cropJdGordon: I just try to be realistic. You know: a pessimist is a well informed optimist :-)
11:23:02B4gderand I don't think it is a dead end
11:23:07cropHow do you (RB devs) see it?
11:23:10B4gderit just takes more effort to some targets
11:24:57cropB4gder: but if they use the right algorithms and implement it properly there is little chance to crack it. Since intractability of the algorithms has been checked and almost proven.
11:25:31B4gderI agree, it can in fact be made almost impossible. But...
11:25:50B4gderthere are buffer overflows, possibly chip replacements, possible flaws in the algo implementations etc
11:26:54scorcheeven so, there are plenty of older unported targets and 6 years after the AJBR came out, they are still available on ebay
11:27:12 Quit desowin ("use linux")
11:27:22B4gderindeed, and not all new targets do these strong protections either
11:29:10B4gdertime to eat
11:29:12cropB4gder: that's the question. If the protection becomes part of the SDK then...
11:30:32cropscorche: what is AJBR?
11:30:35scorchecrop: even if the unlikely possibility of all new targets being impossible to "crack" comes true, see my earlier statement
11:30:42scorchearchos jukebox recorder
11:31:16peturalso consider the possibility of having an open source player (hardware)...
11:31:38cropscorche: yes, but it's still a dying population. I'm not trying to put things down, I just want to understand what to be prepared for.
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11:33:09scorcheeven in a worst case scenario which is highly unlikely, you are looking over 10 years into the future
11:33:26scorcheand even then, as petur mentioned, we can make our own
11:36:42croppetur: you mean a player with the chip docs and schematics publicly available?
11:36:59peturyes of course ;)
11:37:24*markun wispers blackfin
11:37:28B4gderhaha
11:37:32cropUntil recently, the first part was true
11:38:04cropSo we have to persuade a manufacturer to open the schems
11:38:12peturB4gder: quick lunch today?
11:38:52markunB4gder: I would like to port rockbox to a player with that chip, but there aren't many options and very few owners
11:38:54B4gderhaha, I interrupted... but I promise I'll leave in a minute ;*)
11:38:56B4gderI was
11:39:17scorchecrop: there are plenty of open hardware designs out....it is expanding as well, just as open source is
11:39:30scorchereally, this is a useless discussion imo..
11:39:50markunscorche: why?
11:40:08peturwe also need more companies that ask us to port rb to their players. Whate ever happened to that one guy in the forum?
11:40:17*markun isn't even sure which discussion is going on
11:40:59B4gdersomeone mentioned AMS' chip to Neuros since they said they wanted rockbox for it
11:41:18B4gderbut that's not openly documented either
11:41:24scorchemarkun: basically, he wants to know what to "prepare himself for"....in otherwords he thinks (or came in thinking) that because of the zune and companies getting better at keeping us out, rockbox is approaching a dead end
11:41:55peturdidn't austriancoder get info on a player from AMS?
11:42:19B4gderpetur: but that doesn't differ much from how Neuros get info about the DM320 from TI
11:42:20cropscorche: yes, that was my reasoning. But I'll be glad to be proven wrong
11:42:53scorchecrop: well, we just gave you a multitude of explanations why you are wrong...
11:43:18crop..and hence now I'm happy :-)
11:43:18*petur remembers the forum post... http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3978.0
11:44:40scorchepetur: yeah...his absence has made me a bit sad...those devices fit my requirements for the next upgrade
11:45:30LinusNany rbutil ninjas here?
11:45:40peturyes, that Hi-X8 would fit my needs too
11:45:55peturLinusN: for?
11:46:18LinusNrbutil has an annoying habit of trying to automatically download the manual
11:46:58peturit now automatically detects if the user needs it :p
11:47:03LinusNbut i need to use a proxy for that
11:47:26LinusNso it hangs for a long time before it times out with a dialog telling me that the download failed
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11:47:46petursorry, know nothing about that
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11:47:53scorchepetur: then again, the AV300 series fit it as well, which is why i wanted to port it, but sadly i have higher priorities atm =/
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12:39:26markundid anyone read about the troubles with GPE and handhelds.org?
12:39:43B4gdernopes. url?
12:40:12markunOne side of the story is on their homepage: http://www.handhelds.org/geeklog/index.php
12:40:34markunSome of the other side of the story can be found here: http://fl0rian.wordpress.com/2007/05/23/threatened-update/
12:41:15markunquite interesting discussion about who owns a open source project
12:42:52LloreanI don't like the "they rename forks because we expect it of them."
12:43:03LloreanThey aren't *required* to rename forks.
12:43:10markunLlorean: and which 'we' ...
12:43:14LloreanIt's just a matter of politeness.
12:43:36B4gderno, forks are not required to rename
12:43:50B4gderand it would even be gpl incompatible to require so
12:44:14B4gderthis is more of a traditional flame war where no side has the absolute right
12:44:42B4gderuntil they registered the trademark of course
12:44:47B4gderwhich makes it a trademark issue
12:44:50LloreanYup
12:45:15LloreanThe fact that he tried to remove the code from CVS though, could also fall under copyright issue since he tried to remove their ability to uphold their GPL obligations.
12:45:44B4gderwell, I would guess he has another view on what and why he did
12:45:51LloreanYeah
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12:45:57markunB4gder: you also removed the source code from the cvs server I guess?
12:46:02LloreanIt's never as clear as either side presents it
12:46:08markunwhen it was moved to the subversion server
12:46:28B4gderwell, technically of course cutting off the server access is a pretty major "delete" ;-)
12:46:49markunB4gder: and was rockbox in the past hosted at sourceforge?
12:46:56B4gderyes
12:47:01markunand later removed?
12:47:09B4gdersourceforge never removes anything
12:47:15markunah, of course not :)
12:47:20Zagorit's still there, just very old
12:47:25B4gderto the extent that it is annoying
12:47:47B4gderthat's one of the reasons why sourceforge is a collection of mostly dead or unborn projects
12:47:59markunindeed
12:48:25markunI hope rockbox never gets into this kind of trouble
12:48:38markunwhere 2 groups call themselves the 'real' rockbox
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12:48:55B4gderno, we should aim for at least 3 groups! ;-P
12:49:15linuxstbHas anyone ever looked into registering the Rockbox trademark? I assume it would be expensive to do it worldwide?
12:49:38LloreanIt's assigned in some countries already, I believe.
12:49:42Zagorlinuxstb: not only that, but we'd have to bully everyone to stop using it
12:49:58LloreanYou can't hold a trademark and not enforce it, you lose it. So yeah, it'd become a hassle to keep.
12:49:58B4gderit'd probably be a fairly major undertaking
12:50:32LloreanThough given the -box suffix, I suspect there's plenty of "more ego-stroking" names should anyone choose to do a real fork.
12:50:40linuxstbI'm not thinking about stopping other people using the name, just taking pre-emptive measures in case anyone tried to stop us in the future.
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12:53:17Zagorlinuxstb: yeah, but that's a difficult thing to do. if we hold the trademark and don't defend it always, we are not allowed to start defending it some time in the future.
12:55:08Zagorjust witness the "fun" problems mozilla are getting themselves into with the firefox and thunderbird trademarks. debian is not allowed to distribute them...
12:55:22GodEateris that like saying we're happy to change our name if someone *does* register the trademark and then comes after us ?
12:55:42ZagorGodEater: no, trademark doesn't work like that.
12:56:00Zagorwe have a widely used and established mark. it can't be simply hijacked.
12:56:03B4gderisn't the theory that Rockbox already is a trademark, just not registered
12:56:10ZagorB4gder: exactly
12:56:26linuxstbSo what difference does registering it make/
12:56:27linuxstb?
12:56:29scorchefirefox:iceweasel::rockbox:stonecrate?
12:56:46Zagorlinuxstb: it's expensive and doesn't help us much
12:57:10markunscorche: I like stonecrate ;)
12:57:18linuxstbscorche: Or shitbag...
12:57:21B4gderregistering makes it easier to go after others I guess
12:57:45markunlinuxstb: that would spoil the whole surprise :)
12:57:53scorchelinuxstb: now now...dont get testy =)
12:58:23B4gdermy fork will be named roxbox
12:58:37GodEatercalling ourselves "shitbag" does have the advantage that I suspect no-one else is ever likely to want to use it ;)
12:58:50ZagorB4gder: but we can only go after others if we do that from the start. and I sure don't want to start hassling people who are distributing their own builds that they can't say it's rockbox
12:59:13B4gderwell, you can have a policy and accept certain uses
12:59:22Zagortrue
12:59:24B4gderit's just that policy you need to enforce
12:59:39scorcheso who has claim over Orpheus? =P
12:59:44linuxstbBut would we want to? How far from SVN can an unofficial build be and still be called Rockbox?
12:59:47Lloreanscorche: Sennheiser? :-P
13:00
13:00:06B4gderlinuxstb: obviously apache, firefox, subversion etc all have such policies
13:00:35B4gderbut I wouldn't want to do it
13:00:35GodEateruntil I read that article, I had no idea WebSphere was a fork from apache - certainly doesn't resemble it much these days
13:00:36ZagorI need to read up more about this
13:00:42LloreanOn a topic semi-related to forks, stemming from the discussion about WPS gallery at DCW...
13:00:48markunGodEater: same here
13:01:11scorcheLlorean: what about it?...i was planning on mailing redbreva tomorrow
13:01:39LloreanHow would people feel if I added a statement saying that unsupported builds with threads in our forums should contain only non-rejected patches from the tracker, so it's more clear that they're about advancing Rockbox itself?
13:02:01scorcheah...that
13:02:32B4gderLlorean: I'm not sure that is a very good idea
13:02:36safetydan_GodEater: that sounds wrong somehow. AFAIK WebSphere is written in Java and Apache in C... unless they're talking about tomcat.
13:02:56linuxstbLlorean: I'm not sure that makes sense - patches can be rejected but still useful. Most of the long-term patches (scroll margins etc) are technically rejected.
13:03:06GodEatersafetydan: you know, you're right - I hadn't considered that
13:03:09B4gder1) it makes custom builds that include a patch that suddenly gets rejecected suddenly become "illegal" to discuss
13:03:20Lloreanlinuxstb: I was thinking more about the pies julius patches that were never submitted, for example.
13:03:21GodEaterhe must mean tomcat
13:03:32B4gder2) rejected patches can be brought back to life
13:04:13LloreanWhat I wanted to do was discourage the people who never submit their patches to the tracker at all.
13:04:29B4gderright, that's rather... unfriendly
13:04:33LloreanI know.
13:04:36linuxstbLlorean: I don't see the purpose of unofficial builds as "advancing Rockbox". I see them as fulfilling a desire by users to have features which we don't want in SVN, or have not yet been implemented well enough for SVN.
13:04:47scorcheLlorean: i would just say patches that arent int he tracker.....not use the word rejected
13:04:59safetydan_Llorean: I'd almost see that as their loss. If they don't submit it they have to maintain their fork.
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13:05:42GodEateryeah, I don't see the issue - we already don't support them
13:05:44daurnhi all
13:05:55LloreanGodEater: The thing is, we do to an extent.
13:06:06ZagorI would prefer we take the moral high ground and encourage patch submission but don't limit discussion
13:06:13LloreanDue to people not mentioning they're using them, or other people asking why their WPS doesn't look right.
13:06:40LloreanZagor: I'm fine with that.
13:06:41Zagorthen again I'm not in the forum much, so I'm unaware how much trouble this is causing
13:06:43GodEaterLlorean: I don't consider telling someone "that feature only works in X's build" supporting them
13:07:06LloreanGodEater: I meant support as in "the threads that go for 2 pages before it's revealed they're using an unofficial build"
13:07:28GodEaterLlorean: oh - I guess I've not seen too many of those
13:07:55GodEaterLlorean: but I don't see how changing the policy of *which* patches go in helps that much :)
13:07:59linuxstbThe only problem I have with the unofficial builds is that they confuse new users. What other software has so many slightly different versions available?
13:08:14B4gderlinux
13:08:14Zagorlinuxstb: linux :-)
13:08:24linuxstbZagor: That proves my point ;)
13:08:27LloreanGodEater: I just kinda feel that having a forum section specifically for them is *kinda* an endorsement, in an odd sorta way.
13:08:57LloreanAnd it's next to impossible to maintain a list of what goes into or out of them, or check that they're GPL.
13:10:05safetydan_Llorean: I'd rather see them discussed somewhere central rather than having to chase dozens of different forums though
13:10:36B4gderwell, they are rather discussed elsewhere afaik
13:10:45LloreanThey're very discussed elsewhere.
13:10:45B4gderthe ones we host are only a rare few
13:10:46ZagorI agree with safetydan. the separate forum is to keep the unsupported threads concetrated instead of polluting "official" secions
13:10:59Zagorthe purpose of*
13:11:16LloreanI believe a couple of the threads in our forums are little more than links to threads in other forums for those builds.
13:11:47GodEaterwonder what they don't like about our forums that they feel they should do that
13:11:56GodEaterthere's not many forum features missing imho
13:11:57B4gderthe sansa guys at anythingbutipod have I believe 4 or 5 different builds and discussions
13:12:22B4gderGodEater: I think it is just a matter of them considering themselves "at home" in the other forums
13:12:43GodEaterI guess so - they know the crowd etc.
13:12:57Zagorthat's the problem with forums in general - everybody wants their own
13:13:31B4gderyeps
13:14:58*amiconn doesn't ;)
13:15:05B4gderbut that's also the general web approach since people want to get visitors to sell ads etc
13:15:24LloreanOh, speaking of "sell ads" etc.
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13:15:59LloreanIf we're going to try to raise donations, we could add a simple forum badge for those who've donated, similar in line to what Misticriver does (though no added functions to go with it)
13:16:14B4gderindeed
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13:17:02B4gderit would of course require that the donors tell their name and that zagor feeds it back
13:17:03GodEaterLlorean: not even a VIP forum ? ;)
13:17:31LloreanGodEater: I could promise to yell at them a little less. :-P
13:17:35GodEaterhahahaha
13:17:37GodEaterlol
13:17:49GodEater*tears in eyes*
13:18:20GodEatersign me up right now
13:18:43GodEaterI want my badge to say that in big letters "LLorean promised to yell at me less"
13:18:44LloreanI think you do more yelling than I do these days. :-P
13:18:57GodEaterthat's possible
13:19:07GodEaterI'm trying to take more happy pills to curb it
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13:33:10peturre unofficial builds: I recall we talked about this on devcon and the idea was that unofficial builds also provide a testbed for some patches that may get included, so we wanted to keep them on our forum
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13:39:24peturhttp://www.samsung.com/presscenter/pressrelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070625_0000356219#
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13:39:42petur1.8" 64GB flashdrive
13:39:58LinusNlooks damn expensive :-)
13:40:26B4gderamen
13:40:27petur32GB seems to sell for $529, I can only fear the worst ;)
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13:49:22CassandraHello al.
13:49:24Cassandraall.
13:49:26*B4gder waves
13:49:45peturhey
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13:49:54LinusNCassandra: are you a wxwindows ninja?
13:49:58CassandraAnyone know the current codec count for Rockbox. And whether Ogg was the second codec we implemented or not.
13:50:01LinusNwxwidgets
13:50:10CassandraSure. If you like.
13:50:58LinusNthe silly wxHtmlWindow widget can't use a proxy
13:51:15CassandraThat is silly.
13:51:16LinusNor can it?
13:51:33LinusNso the current rbutil.exe stalls when you start it
13:51:43CassandraWhy are you using it rather than the API that just launches your browser?
13:51:46LinusNbecause it tries to download the html manual
13:52:05markunCassandra: I would have to check the commit logs to see which codecs were first
13:52:18LinusNi don't know why rbutil does that, i just tried rbutil and the stalling annoyed me
13:52:20Cassandramarkun: don't worry it's not important.
13:52:27LinusNso i started looking in the code
13:52:33linuxstbCassandra: Checking "svn log" in apps/codecs shows the order was libmad, liba52, libFLAC then Tremor, then wavpack
13:52:37CassandraLinus: Yeah. I was going to strip that out today.
13:52:45CassandraHowever, other stuff came up.
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13:53:08Cassandralinuxstb, so ogg was quite a latecomer then?
13:53:15LinusNeither we start the browser, or we use DownloadURL() and LoadFile() instead
13:53:22LloreanAnd currently we have wav, aiff, adx, mp3, vorbis, aac, flac, wavpack, mpc, alac, ape, nsf, spc, sid, and sorta midi? 15? Plus whatever I missed?
13:53:23markunCassandra: I think it was all close together
13:53:24B4gderCassandra: liba52 was the second...
13:53:29LloreanAC3
13:53:42B4gderhttp://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/codecs/?pathrev=5970
13:53:43linuxstbmarkun: They were - all in a couple of days
13:53:50scorchesoon to be gbc added to the mix
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13:54:10Luca84hello everybody! :)
13:54:12B4gderthen flac, then tremor
13:54:19markunhi Luca84
13:54:27*linuxstb refers B4gder to the answer he gave a few moments ago
13:54:32markun:)
13:54:47B4gderI know, but I check the exact details!
13:54:52B4gder;-)
13:55:06Luca84I just wanted to tell to everyone that contributed to rockbox a big thank you! my sansa is even better now ;)
13:55:06B4gderthat svn guy keep a careful log of things
13:55:26LinusNLuca84: you're welcome
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13:55:49Luca84I wanted to ask a simple question, though... is it possible to write plugins for rockbox in C++?
13:56:02dionoeano. C only.
13:56:04markunB4gder: he copied most of that info from that cvs guy I think :)
13:56:21linuxstbLuca84: In theory I'm sure you can, but there is no infrastructure in the build system for it.
13:56:33B4gdermarkun: :-)
13:57:17dionoealinuxstb: wouldn't that need stuff like dynamic memory allocation too ?
13:57:34Luca84isn't malloc available in rockbox?
13:57:37B4gderyeps, c++ kind of implies that
13:57:54scorcheLuca84: no...we statically allocate things here
13:58:10CassandraLinusN, in answer to your question. I think we discussed this at Devcon. The manual doesn't belong in rbutil, and I'll remove the browser the moment I get some round tuits.
13:58:10dionoeaLuca84: it isn't. (except for a few plugins which have their own simple implementation)
13:58:42Luca84oh! uhm... well, that kinda defeats the point heh :)
13:58:54scorcheCassandra: well, have you see our (DCW's) summary about RButil?
13:58:55B4gderdefeats what point?
13:59:02Luca84of using C++, that is
13:59:04LloreanCassandra: Is it going to be replaced with just having RBUtil launch the browser to the manual?
13:59:22CassandraLlorean, yes.
13:59:22B4gderLuca84: well, C++ is just C with some extra goo on it, just cut off the goo and use C ;-)
13:59:33Cassandrascorche, no. Where is it?
13:59:36LinusNCassandra: ah, i remember now
13:59:36dionoeas/some/lots of/ :)
13:59:37LloreanCassandra: Okay, just making sure. The statement "the manual doesn't belong in RBUtil" frightened me a little bit. ;)
13:59:53scorcheCassandra: wiki page DevConWest2007
14:00
14:01:17Luca84B4gder ;)
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14:01:39*GodEater wonders if Llorean forgot speex too
14:01:45CassandraLlorean, sorry. Shorthand. The aim is to keep rbutil as lightweight as possible. If a web browser will do a better job of something, then we'll keep that in the web browser.
14:01:45Luca84well, I'll do a little bit of research :) I was planning a simple calendar-like plugin
14:01:46LloreanB4gder: The goo's a lot harder to cut off if you started with C++, it can be hard to see where it ends. ;)
14:01:54LloreanGodEater: I did. So, 17?
14:02:00B4gderI guess so
14:02:10CassandraBut links to appropriate info are still appropriate.
14:02:12B4gderI never got friends with C++ so for me the goo is all big and red
14:02:20Luca84sorry, lunchtime here... see you soon guys! :)
14:02:29GodEaterthe problem with the goo in C++ is it kept changing for ages
14:02:31LloreanCassandra: That's kinda what we felt. It should do everything that's required for Rockbox to be usable (including video conversion) but where possible act as a front end to something else.
14:02:32Luca84and greetings from Italy!
14:02:46 Quit Luca84 ("Ciao a Tutti!!! >(SkakkiSkript v6.04)<")
14:02:52LloreanCassandra: But never go beyond 'necessary to use the features', such as becoming music management, etc.
14:03:09CassandraNo.
14:03:32CassandraThe furthest I'd go is possibly database generation for the slower platforms.
14:04:07LloreanWe felt that since we mandate a specific video format, and a specific font format, etc, a "known good" method of creating them could be provided.
14:04:09pixelmaLlorean: the wps tag gives you 19 possibilities in the enum (18 different codecs, including mp1, mp2 - and 1 "unknown")
14:04:13CassandraAnyone know who implemented Ogg for Rockbox?
14:04:36B4gderdave?
14:04:41GodEaterwhat you putting together Cassandra ?
14:04:42markunI imported the source
14:04:51markunand dave made a codec out of it
14:05:03CassandraJust some answers for someone writing a PhD on Ogg Vorbis.
14:05:04Lloreanpixelma: Does it include Well, if we add MP1 and MP2 to what I listed, that's 19 without "Unknown." Did I add one too many somewhere?
14:05:06CassandraNothing exciting.
14:05:18LloreanErr, ignore the first 3 words.
14:05:34*Cassandra decides to go with "over 15".
14:05:45markunCassandra: I wonder if it's the same thing I answererd :)
14:05:58Cassandramarkun, could be. The one to press @ rockbox.
14:05:59pixelmaLlorean: midi isn't a codec yet
14:06:00Cassandra?
14:06:23Lloreanpixelma: Ah, right, I counted midi.
14:06:52markunZagor: oops, I see I replied the email to you and not Wolfram..
14:07:51Zagorhaha
14:08:11markunforwarded it to him
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14:09:01 Part Llorean
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14:12:57amiconnCassandra: I don't think database creation on archos is so slow that an external tool would make sense
14:13:28amiconnAnd I'd rather like separate tools for separate tasks than one all-in-one monster
14:15:20Cassandraamiconn: I have no immediate plans to implement it.
14:15:43CassandraMy current Rockbox time seems to be so limited as to be a joke anyway.
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14:32:17 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com)
14:32:57CassandraInteresting read re rbutil.
14:33:21 Quit billytwowilly (Remote closed the connection)
14:33:26Cassandra(The DevconWest stuff.)
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14:34:23LloreanThe general feel was that if a special tool was *necessary* to use a feature, RBUtil should either provide that tool (compiled in bdfcon) or front end for it (for example, via ffmpeg)
14:35:52amiconnHmm, strange
14:36:18amiconnI usually prefer separate tools.
14:36:30LloreanRBUtil is already quite the opposite of separate tools though
14:36:34amiconnBut we should probably provide those tools in binary form
14:36:45scorcheamiconn: well, we were pretty much saying that if xxx was to be included, we would like it doen xxx way
14:37:34LloreanI mean, we have a separate fwpatcher (or equivalent) for most targets, and installing the build is as simple as unzipping. Meanwhile RBUtil already handles "extras" like Doom and Themes
14:37:54LloreanSo that could be extended to Fonts (since the tools are in SVN already, or at least one of them is), and Videos (only serving as a front end to encoder of choice)
14:38:24scorchebasically, everything to get your files ready for rockbox
14:38:44LloreanWell, when changes are mandatory to use those files.
14:38:50scorcheaye
14:39:33LloreanBut it was more or less a "we wouldn't object if someone wanted to do that with it, we WOULD object if it tried to become a music management tool, or really go beyond anything that's strictly Rockbox focused"
14:40:10 Quit aliask ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007060115]")
14:40:58amiconnI am looking at rbutil as an installation tool
14:41:32LloreanAnd "Doom" and "Themes" are just aspects of installation?
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14:42:06LloreanI think if themes are installation, then to an extent, fonts (and then font conversion) could be too.
14:43:00LloreanI think mpegplayer conversion doesn't qualify as installation, but having one "known good" conversion method does make it easier to support, and easier for the end user to use.
14:43:14CassandraIt can be different things to different people, certainly.
14:43:20amiconnI am in no way against a known good method
14:43:23 Quit NickDollahs (Client Quit)
14:43:34Lloreanamiconn: I personally wouldn't object to a stand alone "known good" video converter.
14:43:37amiconnBut imho it doesn't belong into rbutil
14:43:57LloreanBut we were thinking that RBUtil could simply call the converter, rather than including it.
14:44:17CassandraI suppose my question would be "if the standalone tool is available, what's the harm in putting a front end for it in rbutil?"
14:44:32LloreanCassandra: What's the harm, or what's the benefit?
14:44:37LloreanI see no harm in putting a front end in.
14:45:08 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
14:45:09scorcheand neither did the rest of DCW ;)
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14:45:17linuxstbLlorean: Feature bloat...
14:45:44Lloreanlinuxstb: That's why we tried to discuss where the line should be.
14:45:56LloreanThere definitely should be a line somewhere, it's just a matter of opinion as to where it is.
14:46:02scorchelinuxstb: that was brought up, but we thought that as long as the line stood at related to just rockbox, it was in the clear
14:46:05CassandraQuite.
14:46:23CassandraI don't particularly like the prominence Doom has at the moment.
14:46:29CassandraFor me, that's a frippery.
14:46:40scorchei dont think any of the devs do...
14:46:55daurndo we know anything about the iriver s10?
14:46:56CassandraI have some thoughts on how to fix this.
14:47:13scorchedaurn: search the wiki
14:47:16LloreanCassandra: Remove it?
14:47:25CassandraThey may also be suitable for dealing with bloat - we may be able to arrange for transcoders etc. to be downloaded on demand.
14:47:36CassandraLlorean: Nope. Simple packaging.
14:47:52CassandraMost of the infrastructure to support it is already avaialble within rbutil.
14:48:36daurnscorche: nothing
14:48:48CassandraAnd frankly I have less problem with it among several optional extras.
14:48:58Lloreandaurn: There's a "thread" on the forums, that just says basically "It'd be really neat if there was a port for it"
14:49:05daurnLlorean: i saw
14:49:14daurnand only one response - from markun
14:49:26LloreanCassandra: Ah, just prominence of positioning? An "extras" page in the installer?
14:50:48markundaurn: didn't we find a website with a 'naked' s10?
14:51:11markunshowing a samsung ARM (surprise surprise)
14:51:32daurnmarkun: i remember you saying something about samsung in it
14:51:35daurnno picture...
14:51:59markunI didn't find a picture. Let me google again.
14:52:29JdGordonanyone know how to use vlc here?
14:53:41markundaurn: http://www.iriverfans.com/news_detail.asp?ArticleID=888
14:53:49daurnJdGordon: I use it
14:53:58markunJdGordon: will you start a wiki?
14:54:04daurnhttp://www.themp3players.com/archives/2006/10/whats-inside-iriver-s10/
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14:54:40JdGordonmarkun: a wiki for..?
14:54:50markunJdGordon: the iriver S10
14:55:21markunJdGordon: something like http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverE10Info
14:55:45JdGordonmarkun: buy me a s10 and i will :p
14:56:06markunah, oops, the question was for daurn ;)
14:56:14JdGordonthought so :)
14:57:30brandoncan i use ipodpatcher.exe to upload files to my ipod since windows says my drive needs to be formattted. also i used itunes 7 to restore but after it finishes restoring it asks me to resotre again and a again... so yeah..
14:58:06 Quit desowin (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
14:58:21markundaurn: and there is a firmware update for you to play with http://nyaochi.sakura.ne.jp/iriverupdate/
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14:58:35markunseveral
14:59:30daurnwell, I just read some reviews
14:59:35daurnand the UI isn't that good
14:59:45daurnbut, the player I think could be something awesome
15:00
15:00:03linuxstbbrandon: No, ipodpatcher just modifies the firmware partition on your ipod, not the main firmware that stores your files.
15:00:53linuxstb^I mean the main partition...
15:01:08brandonokay, is there sonething i can do... i tried to format the fat32 partition so that windows would recognize it but i have problems keeping the formware intact or the format is unsuccesful.
15:02:03brandoni used ipodpatcher.exe to upload rockbox.ipod and it worked using "ipodpatcher.exe -wf rockbox.ipod" in cmd
15:02:40GodEaterbrandon: which document did you follow which told you to do that ?
15:03:08brandonnone...
15:03:19LloreanIt's not simply updloading a file, either, you're writing it into the firmware partition instead of having the apple firmware there.
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15:03:36LloreanAnd it still doesn't touch the 'data' partition where you keep music
15:03:38GodEaterbrandon: did you not want the apple firmware at all anymore then ?
15:03:40brandoni tried following the directions but i cant upload files to my ipod without formatting it as a usb flash drive
15:04:02brandoni dont really care for it @ GodEater which ever way makes it work
15:04:46GodEaterbrandon: I only ask as most people only write the bootloader with ipodpatcher - you've written the rockbox firmware straight into the apple firmware partition doing that
15:05:09Lloreanbrandon: If after restoring with iTunes your iPod still says it needs restored, that's something you need to contact Apple about
15:05:16 Quit Thundercloud_ (Remote closed the connection)
15:05:18brandonyeah, i know. i actually read the documentation for ipodpatcher
15:06:00GodEaterwell as Llorean says, if after you've used iTunes to restore it it's still not working, then you need to take it to Apple
15:06:22brandonalrighty then
15:07:27 Part brandon
15:07:48markunnice overview of chips used in various mp3 players: http://forum.mp3store.pl/index.php?s=ab5297e780a0d52f7fe65ad838b60f83&showtopic=14695
15:08:02*GodEater wonders if we have many users that use the -wf option with ipodpatcher
15:08:24Zagoryay, polish!
15:08:40GodEateryay
15:08:57LloreanGodEater: I intend to use it as soon as we have a native USB mode
15:09:03markundoes anyone here speak polish?
15:09:10B4gdernice overview indeed
15:09:28daurnmarkun: do you happen to know what lang is what?
15:09:53GodEaterLlorean: even though it makes updating slightly more onerous ?
15:09:58markundaurn: what lang is what?
15:09:58daurnthere is: kor (korean); jap (japanese); est (???) and lat (????)
15:10:10daurnmarkun: on that iriver firmware page
15:10:11markunestonian latvian?
15:10:24daurnso.... which is english?
15:10:27GodEaterthat would be my guess
15:10:31Zagorneither
15:10:33GodEaterdaurn: none of the above :)
15:10:49LloreanGodEater: So I type "unzip rockbox.zip -d /media/gigabeat&&ipodpatcher -wf /media/gigabeat/.rockbox/rockbox.ipod"
15:11:01LloreanOr better yet make a small command to do it for me. :-P
15:11:07GodEaterhahaha - to your gigabeat mount ;)
15:11:08GodEaternice
15:11:14LloreanOr ipod rather
15:11:18LloreanI've been using my gigabeat so often
15:11:20GodEaterI suspected you meant that
15:11:20markundaurn: I've read it somewhere. Let me google a bit.
15:11:39LloreanBut yeah, if I'm typing anyway, a couple dozen extra characters is nothing.
15:11:57GodEaterI assume you still use the OF for disk access then, rather than disk mode ?
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15:12:23LloreanYup
15:12:28daurnoh well lol
15:12:31daurnI guessed the url
15:12:32daurnhttp://www.iriverplus.com/update/firmware/s10/eng/S10.HEX
15:12:33linuxstbmarkun: Nice link - no blackfin DAPs listed though...
15:12:37daurnthere is a file there :P
15:12:38*GodEater hasn't noticed a real performance difference between the two
15:12:43LloreanGodEater: Do you have a Nano?
15:12:46GodEaternope
15:12:49markundaurn: :)
15:12:50GodEaterwhich I why I suspect ;)
15:12:53LloreanYeah
15:13:06GodEaterso roll on usb support
15:13:09B4gderit amazes me people do so much work and post it... in a FORUM
15:13:11LloreanJust extracting a fullzip to it gives me enough time to prepare and eat lunch under windows.
15:13:14markunlinuxstb: would probably have been a very short list
15:13:29GodEaterLlorean: wow - that's slower than I imagined
15:13:43markunlinuxstb: maybe something to copy in a wiki page
15:13:57LloreanGodEater: If I recall it could be around 7 and a half minutes for a full zip with fonts.
15:14:00GodEaterit's completely academic of course, but I wonder if disk mode on the 2nd Gen Nano is that bad?
15:14:01markunand link to the variour pages (which are now sometimes orphans probably)
15:14:07daurnok
15:14:17daurnI have NO idea how to read/decode that firmwarew
15:14:25GodEaterLlorean: you eat lunch fast :)
15:14:33LloreanB4gder: I don't think I'll ever understand the desire to document things in the forum. I think it's the positive feedback of "writing a post so good it got stickied"
15:14:44LloreanGodEater: A sandwich and a glass of juice, often.
15:14:47markundaurn: the older firmwares can be decoder with the ifp decrypter, but I don't think that works on the S10 one
15:14:47B4gderdaurn: one could start trying out the existing iriver hex encodings, or variations of them
15:14:53GodEaterdoes twiki have a page rank system ?
15:15:03linuxstbmarkun: Yes, I've been thinking about such a wiki page for a while. Along with comments about what is known about running third-party code.
15:15:30B4gdermi4code can also decrypt the iriver h10 hex format
15:15:54linuxstbHas anyone else here looked at the Telechips firmwares ? They all seem to be unencrypted, but have some kind of checksum or signature in the header.
15:16:18B4gderI'm not aware of any real telechip effort
15:16:19markunB4gder: but the h10 is portalplayer based, I don't think they used it for the samsung players (but we could try)
15:16:21linuxstb(there are two 32-bit numbers in the header which seem to vary in every different firmware)
15:16:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:16:52B4gdermarkun: I know, I was just thinking that if you get all the iriver hex decrypters and compare then you have some input to try on the new hex encodings
15:17:52markundaurn: I see that I already tried to decrypt the S10 firmware with the ifp decrypter, but that didn't work
15:20:01markundaurn: wait, it did work..
15:20:08daurno.o
15:20:35markunhttp://130.89.160.166/rockbox/S10.BIN
15:20:59markunstrings like "WMA Windows Media(tm) Audio"
15:22:12B4gderthat's the decoded version?
15:22:21linuxstbmarkun: and "C++ library exception"....
15:23:03markunB4gder: yes
15:23:11markunthe .HEX file is encrypted
15:23:30B4gderthere were so few ascii texts
15:23:45CassandraLorean: Exactly. I'm sure there are people that would find it useful. Just not many.
15:24:23markunB4gder: maybe the rest is dectypted in memory or something?
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15:24:38markunor unpacked
15:25:18markunor our tool doesn't work correctly
15:25:37B4gderunicode adds a few more
15:25:48B4gderstrings -eb
15:26:49B4gder"License.drm" ;-)
15:27:35markundidn't know that option
15:28:23B4gderwhat I find interesting with -eb is that b is for big-endian I believe
15:28:44B4gder-el is what I usually use to get the strings
15:29:09markunwhat do you think melon.bin could be..
15:30:12LloreanFresh fruit?
15:30:19markunkorean names can be strange, like the "lucky goldstar" company (LG)
15:30:24B4gderimpossible to guess without more research
15:31:04B4gderthey support quite a few languages
15:31:17B4gderat least they feature many language names
15:31:22markunyes, a lot
15:31:23B4gderI don't see any strings for them
15:31:30markunmaybe just very few options
15:32:43LloreanIs there any reason strings have to be "strings" rather than images, though?
15:32:53B4gderno
15:32:53GodEateronly for space reasons
15:33:25B4gdermodern firmwares tend to use images a lot
15:33:34GodEatereye candy
15:33:40B4gderyeps
15:33:58LloreanClearly our language files should be giant bitmaps to compete.
15:34:44GodEaterI think I need to learn more internet speak. PM I just got on the forums : "help plxx yoggi34"
15:34:48markunB4gder: do you recognize any ARM or Thumb assembler?
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15:35:11B4gderdidn't check, moved back to do some real work...
15:35:12markunGodEater: perfectly normal question :)
15:35:27GodEatermarkun: I must be dim ;)
15:36:24linuxstbmarkun: That S10 firmware seems to be big-endian arm...
15:36:40linuxstbSame as the T30 IIRC
15:37:01GodEaterLlorean: you beat me...
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15:37:38*GodEater tries to work who "yelled" most ;)
15:37:40linuxstbmarkun: The exception vectors seem to be at 0x1f4
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15:37:49markunlinuxstb: nice find
15:38:12markundaurn: looks like we are almost there ;)
15:38:21daurnha
15:38:21linuxstbBagder's find of big-endian unicode made me think about trying -EB with objdump
15:38:30daurnMaybe iriver shall get some of my hard earned
15:38:55LloreanGodEater: You beat me to the [Bug Report] post though
15:39:02linuxstbmarkun: Can you reencrypt the S10 firmware?
15:39:15lapehi, is it possible that rockbox needs a lot more power than the default ipod 30Gb soft?
15:39:18markunlinuxstb: yes, I think so
15:39:21GodEaterLlorean: I typed less than you though :)
15:39:32linuxstbmarkun: This was my objdump command - arm-elf-objdump -EB -D -b binary -m arm S10.BIN
15:39:58markunthanks, that worked here too
15:40:03linuxstblape: It's not just possible, it's a known fact.
15:40:42markunlape: unfortunately..
15:40:46lapeok...cuz, ipod soft: 15 hours playtime, rockck box: less than 10 hours
15:41:38LloreanGodEater: At least he asked for help in the open, then only PMed you after you gave him some attention. About 20% of my received PMs have been 0-posters who want a direct route to help.
15:41:54GodEaterLlorean: I ignore those and delete them
15:41:57GodEaterI get 'em too :)
15:42:09*GodEater is a big ol' meany pants
15:42:36LloreanI figured they probably sent them to a good half dozen people who they thought might be able to help, rather than typing it once and waiting.
15:42:53GodEaterthere's an easy fix Llorean
15:42:57GodEateralter your post count ;)
15:43:17GodEatermake it about 2
15:43:30CassandraAnd change your badge to "Rockbox newb"
15:43:35GodEaterhahahaha
15:43:57*JdGordon got very rude at the last 0 poster asking for help
15:44:14markunlinuxstb: let me first find out how I decrypted it in the first place..
15:44:22JdGordonnice to see im not the only one getting them
15:44:26GodEaterI start to appreciate how Linus (Torvalds) got so bitter :)
15:44:30LloreanI'm pretty sure I didn't award myself the 'expert' badge, for the very hope that maybe new users at least would assume I'm just a forum admin, and clueless beyond taht
15:44:54LloreanThough it did spur one argument when someone told me... was it "shut up stupid admin" or something?
15:44:55LloreanHm.
15:44:55linuxstbCan you ban pms from 0 posters?
15:45:08GodEaterLlorean: yep
15:45:12GodEaterremember him well
15:45:12CassandraSome BBs certainly allow that.
15:45:15Lloreanlinuxstb: I can.
15:45:24daurnand if anyone asks, it was to prevent spam attacks ;)
15:45:28LloreanVery easily, since 0-posters are already in a separate member group
15:45:56linuxstbLife would be easy if you stopped 0-posters doing anything... ;)
15:46:07CassandraEspecially posting.
15:46:09peturincluding posting?
15:46:11GodEaterI think you've basically got an invisible experts badge by answering so many questions though Llorean
15:46:12peturhahaha
15:46:15GodEaterwhether it's actually there or not
15:47:22LloreanHm, actually I don't think I *can* disable PMs for a group
15:47:27*Llorean tinkers
15:47:37*GodEater waits for the forums to disappear in smoke
15:47:53*B4gder prepares to blame twiki ;-)
15:48:02markunlinuxstb: I can't figure out how I did the encryption :(
15:48:03LloreanOh, wait, there it is.
15:48:08CassandraNo, no. Blame DRM.
15:48:13CassandraOr solar flares.
15:48:17GodEaterit's probably Steve Jobs fault
15:48:19CassandraOr hippy flares.
15:48:25LloreanGodEater: They'll disappear in smoke when I get daring and try to upgrade to SMF 1.1
15:48:35GodEaterLlorean: yay! can't wait!
15:48:36CassandraOh, that last is covered by Steve Jobs anyway, right?
15:48:45LloreanGodEater: Were you around last time I broke them horribly?
15:48:47GodEaterI think he covers pretty much everything
15:48:56GodEaterLlorean: I don't recall. Probably not :)
15:49:44daurnfor posterity's sake, here are iriver s10 internals:
15:49:44daurnhttp://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iriverfans.com%2FPlayer_detail.asp%3FArticleID%3D888%26ArticlePage%3D2
15:49:44CassandraHave you tried lubricating them with jam.
15:49:44CassandraI find that usually helps.
15:49:45CassandraAlso for broken MP3 players.
15:49:45LloreanGodEater: It was just a themeing thing, though. The rockbox modifications were made to one of the builtin themes, resulting in them being overwritten on update.
15:49:52GodEateroops
15:50:13LloreanI didn't know this, having not checked all the details I should've.
15:50:20GodEaterLlorean: next time of course you'll sandbox a copy of them first :)
15:51:12LloreanNext time there will be a lot of safety precautions. Though since I had to redo a lot of the changes anyway, I *think* they're done a more friendly way to updates this time
15:53:07LloreanCan anyone think of a valid reason for someone with zero posts to need to make use of the personal message function?
15:53:41GodEaternope
15:53:51peturit's forbidden in many places
15:54:22GodEaterthe only valid use I can think of is if their account appears to have got broken in some way during their signup
15:54:29GodEaterin which case, they can email someone instead
15:54:35peturiirc, on MR you have to have 10+ posts before you can PM
15:54:35GodEateror make a new account
15:54:48peturin case of troubles, they can always come here
15:54:49linuxstbOr if they register in order to contact someone else who is registered.
15:54:55GodEatertbh, I can't think of a decent use of PM on our forums at all
15:55:34linuxstbLlorean: Can you customise the error message that's displayed? Or do 0-posters never see any PM links?
15:55:43Lloreanlinuxstb: No PM links
15:56:17linuxstbI guess if someone has a valid reason, they can complain somewhere (e.g. here, the mailing lists etc)
15:56:22LloreanYeah.
15:56:29LloreanPMs are now disabled for 0 posters.
15:56:37linuxstbOr post a forum message to complain...
15:56:38GodEaterhurray
15:56:39LloreanI'll bring 'em back if there are complaints.
15:56:48LloreanAnd consider it an anti-spam measure.
15:56:56LloreanSince the whole 0-post group is an anti-spam measure.
15:57:23GodEaterLlorean: do we use CAPTCHAs in the sign up process? It's been so long I don't recall...
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15:59:00LloreanGodEater: I believe there's a basic one.
16:00
16:00:09LloreanI haven't seen spam on our forums in a long time, though. I don't know if it's just happening when I'm not looking, or if it's cleared up after that one bad period.
16:00:18 Quit lape ()
16:00:28GodEaterI must admit, I've not seen anyway
16:00:35GodEaters/anyway/any
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16:01:31cropHe-he. Nice commit comment: "Same as FS# 7342 but different" :-))
16:03:29 Quit crop (Client Quit)
16:04:02GodEaterhe popped into just to say that ?
16:04:11 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
16:05:38CassandraI guess so.
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16:07:02CassandraI once needed to do it on MR (send a PM without having posted) - can't remember why though.
16:09:04JdGordonyeah, as annoying as it is, we shouldnt disable pm's for 0 posters
16:11:08daurnbed!
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17:27:46webguest64hey you guys putting my gigabeat s60 on ebay like whoever said (sorry i forgot) was a great i dea. it sold in like 4 hours. for 195usd
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17:32:16peturanother rockbox convert?
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17:40:00markunhi jhMikeS, I wonder why those other devices weren't disabled already
17:40:09markun(refering to your commit)
17:40:44jhMikeSI don't know ... you tell me :)
17:41:27markunwill you measure the new current later today?
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17:42:57markunbtw, can the pull-up settings have a big effect on the power consumption?
17:43:04jhMikeSsure. I'm trying to use the hardware i2c interface too but I'm sticking at the splash.
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17:43:23markunhi TTSbox!
17:43:29TTSboxHI Markun
17:43:31TTSbox:)
17:43:45markundid you get any futher with your plugin?
17:43:59jhMikeSpull-up settings? refering to the GPIO?
17:44:02TTSboxtoday I will have plenty time
17:44:17markunjhMikeS: yes, I know nothing about it, so perhaps I'm asking stupid questions :)
17:44:29TTSboxI will go over other plugins
17:44:46markunTTSbox: yes, that's the best way to lean how to do it I think
17:44:51jhMikeSperhaps, if there's pullup resistor already on a port it wouldn't make sense to use it
17:46:42peturI assume that unknown IO pins are configured as input?
17:47:51markunpetur: no, we leave most of them as they are set by the OF bootloader
17:47:53jhMikeSI would they'd be trisstated
17:48:18markunpetur: there are still some unknowns: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatPortPins
17:48:19jhMikeSwould hope
17:50:22peturdoes the cpu have a setting to tri-state io pins? most I know have input/output/special funtion
17:51:29peturand setting to input activates a weak pull-up which would be the most harmless state unless the pin has to be driven low for a certain functionality
17:52:46jhMikeSI think they do
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17:57:08 Join Domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@e179176025.adsl.alicedsl.de)
17:57:48jhMikeSmarkun: if I did my maths right then Mpll = 294.9408MHz and Upll = 47.9808 MHz? sound right?
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18:00
18:00:48konamhi, i have an issue with the themes
18:01:42konamie. with every theme i use the hour look bad, i mean, it says the HOUR:X (X is the first letter of the day)
18:01:59konamis like the screen is a smaller than the them display or something alike
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18:06:43patrakovis it possible to show hidden directories in rockbox file brwser?
18:06:43konamno one knows how to fix this?
18:07:05n1spatrakov: set "show files" to "all"
18:07:27patrakovlet me try...
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18:09:00patrakovit worked, thanks
18:11:20markunjhMikeS: I have to check
18:16:51markunisn't it 296.345 and 49.391?
18:18:48jhMikeSI based it off the settings from the bootloader (dumping the appropriate regs)
18:18:54 Quit petur ("work->home")
18:19:25Lloreankonam: Bugs in themes are pretty much the responsibility of the author of the theme.
18:20:02konamLlorean but it is happening to me with every them while in the screenshots of those doesn't seem to have this problems
18:20:13jhMikeSMPLLCON: 000C9042 UPLLCON: 003c042 CLKDIVN: 0000007
18:20:19Lloreankonam: Does it happen with the official themes?
18:21:18markunjhMikeS: sorry, you are right
18:21:19konami haven't look at it but i will
18:21:45jhMikeSok, so my DAP isn't weird then :)
18:27:19 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:27:32jhMikeSso with all that MCLK = 294.9408, HCLK = 98.3136 and PCLK = 49.1568 ??
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18:28:18jhMikeSs/MCLK/FCLK/
18:28:19markunjhMikeS: yes
18:29:36*jhMikeS wonders why the need to use a non-recommended PLL setting
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18:29:49konamthe rockbox firmware play videos?
18:30:03markunjhMikeS: do we?
18:30:16konamsupport videos?*
18:30:49jhMikeSit's just what's left from the OF setup. I don't see any setting any PLL related registers.
18:31:04Lloreankonam: See the mpeg player section of the manual.
18:32:17markunjhMikeS: I never noticed that we didn't use the recommended 296.35MHz
18:32:23markunshall wel just set it to that?
18:33:15konamLlorean in which section it is?
18:33:34jhMikeSI don't know. Maybe it'll work but toshiba obviously doesn't.
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18:34:04markunjhMikeS: when we get rid of the OF bootloader we will set it ourselves anyway
18:34:17Juice^hi
18:34:19konami've download it, i was reading the online version
18:34:25markunhi Juice^
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18:34:39Lloreankonam: Plugins I believe. Seriously, you're supposed to search the manual before asking.
18:34:53Juice^any ideas why im getting data abort at 01FBCD0C when running doom? (when pressing play)
18:35:03jhMikeSI think frequency scaling is a fancier procedure than what's in set_cpu_frequency. You have to switch to slow mode and wait for relock too.
18:35:20LloreanJuice^: What player?
18:35:30Juice^Llorean: sansa e200
18:35:41LloreanWhat SVN revision and bootloader version?
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18:36:23markunjhMikeS: ah, you should only change it in slow mode?
18:36:31markunwhich page are you looking at?
18:37:40jhMikeSwait, maybe not. what's that mean on P 7-7?
18:38:10Juice^Llorean: svn from today and bootloader is perhaps from a week ago
18:38:49LloreanJuice^: And these are both the official versions? Your build is from the rockbox page, and your bootloader from sansapatcher.exe?
18:39:00Juice^Llorean: correct
18:39:26markunjhMikeS: I always read it as 'you can just change the frequency and don't have to worry about anything' ;)
18:39:34LloreanJuice^: Were you using any addons?
18:39:43Juice^Llorean: nope
18:39:45markunprobably because that is what I wanted to read :)
18:39:54*Domonoky_ detects rbutil talk in the logs..
18:40:11markunjhMikeS: you are talking about "Change PLL Settings In Normal Operation Mode" right?
18:40:13LloreanJuice^: No clue then, nobody else has filed a bug report about such a thing.
18:40:23Juice^Llorean: ok.. strange
18:40:24jhMikeSbut other frequecies will change and divers must be reset
18:40:30jhMikeSmarkun: yes
18:41:09markunjhMikeS: I guess it would be safer to go to slow mode (diabling the pll)
18:41:34jhMikeSyes, then those other clocks are based off CLKSLOW and should be glitch-free, no?
18:41:55markunI'm not sure what HCLK and PCLK are based on in that case
18:42:16 Part patrakov
18:42:32markunah yes, they are based on the slow clock
18:42:54markun16.9344MHz
18:43:13jhMikeSI wonder if not matching the CPU perfectly to the crystal may be responsible for the occasional channel swap
18:43:59Domonoky_Llorean: do you think audioscrobbler support is too much for rbutil, or is it still in the scope ??
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18:44:45LloreanDomonoky_: Does Rockbox create the log in a "standard" format, or one custom to our software?
18:44:46jhMikeSmatching the IIS to the audio codec clock rather
18:45:11jhMikeSor is that always taken from the crystal itself?
18:45:40Domonoky_Llorean: the log matches the description on the audioscrobbler website, and there are tools for this (and a lib which i would use)
18:46:14Domonoky_Llorean: so i think rockbox creates a standard log, ( only the timeless log is different, no time of course)
18:46:25*jhMikeS now remembers it is set to be from the crystal :P
18:47:19LloreanDomonoky_: I don't know how others will feel about it. Is there a standard, cross-platform stand alone utility for it? Something that RBUtil could simply call, if present, rather than incorporating the code into itself?
18:47:42markunjhMikeS: do you plan to try 400MHz sometime?
18:48:05markun(399.65)
18:48:16Domonoky_there is qtscrob which is qt and should be multiplattform..
18:48:16LloreanPart of the idea was to keep RBUtil small, where possible, so that it's not this giant bloated thing for people who only want to use it for the minimum set (install, remove, update)
18:48:34Domonoky_from the same guy as i could use the libScrobbler ..
18:48:40LloreanSo, where possible we thought it'd be best to have it call another tool, though I think the scrobbler log is probably fairly minimal?
18:49:18jhMikeSmakun: I'll try it at some point and see what happens
18:49:42Domonoky_Llorean: the problem with calling other tools which are not compiled into rockbox is depencies..
18:50:03markunjhMikeS: be careful :)
18:50:15Domonoky_Llorean: using the scrobblerlib is not much code, but you need of course a ui to support it..
18:50:38markunjhMikeS: and will you try 200MHz to see if we can save any power that way?
18:50:56markunI don't think that toffe found a difference
18:51:04SiltaarHello, is anyone potentially interested in iPod nano 2G port ?
18:51:17LloreanDomonoky_: I really don't see any reason not to incorporate it personally, I think it's for larger things (for example, video conversion)
18:51:18jhMikeSsure, why not
18:51:18markunSiltaar: sure
18:51:37markunSiltaar: did you figure something out?
18:52:13Siltaarand... whom should potentially be the more efficient in doing this ?
18:52:30jhMikeSis the code that's in SVN the scaling code that was used for the tests?
18:52:35Domonoky_Llorean: sure for video conversion you would only build an Ui and call an installed converter.. but for most litte things, i think they should be compiled in..
18:52:59SiltaarI "potentially" have a unit to provide
18:53:02Domonoky_or they could be downloaded when need, (complicated) :-)
18:53:16markunjhMikeS: yes, look at the logs, there are a few things we tried: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/target/arm/s3c2440/gigabeat-fx/system-meg-fx.c?view=log&pathrev=13711
18:53:19LloreanDomonoky_: I don't think there's a clear line, but yeah, there's a line somewhere where "small" ends, I imagine the scrobbler lib is still "small" though
18:53:47markunSiltaar: I thought you were going to do it :)
18:54:25SiltaarI """potentially""" could try things
18:54:31Domonoky_Llorean: it depends how you define "small", small code ? or small binary size..
18:54:40Siltaarbut have no particular electronic skills
18:55:31LloreanDomonoky_: Well, since the UI for a front end is going to have to be included in RBUtil whether it's a front end, or the functional code is compiled in, I think "amount the binary download increases by compiling it in vs offering it as a separate download"
18:55:35Domonoky_Llorean: the problem i have with the libScrobbler is, that it needs libCurl, and i dont know if it is possible to compile it statically to rbutil.. :-)
18:56:08LloreanDomonoky_: If you have questions to ask about what you can do with libCurl, I bet there's a few Rockbox devs with some knowledge about it.
18:56:08Domonoky_Llorean: we nearly doubled binary size with the new nice buttons :-)
18:56:40 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:56:46LloreanIf the main program is twice as big now, other additions add half the % binary increase. ;)
18:56:52LloreanRelative to what they did before, at least.
18:57:37Domonoky_if someone complains its to big, we will make a version without images.. *hehe*
18:57:55SiltaarI would be interested in trying to "dump" things in a 1st time, but, if someone skilled is known to be slowed in his work by a lack of testing unit... I could try to help that way...
19:00
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19:01:59n1sSiltaar: I don't think anyone is actively working on it...
19:06:28amiconnI think the issue with the nano G2 is similar to the wma issue
19:09:06Siltaarwhich means that it's better for us not to succeed ?
19:09:42LloreanWhich means that most of the people with the appropriate skills are more interested in other things.
19:09:53amiconnyes
19:10:36amiconnThe nano g2 isn't that interesting a target imho
19:10:52Domonoky_ah the "people that are clever enough to port to nanog2 are clever enough to not choose it" thing :-)
19:11:05Domonoky_s/choose/buy/
19:11:11amiconnSure, it would be nice to see it running there, because more targets are always good
19:11:12n1samiconn: do you think there's any point in committing a asm-optimized strlen for coldfire? (it's about 20% faster than the c version but calling the function 100000 times with a string that's 57 chars long takes only ~1 second...
19:11:42amiconnn1s: Not sure, also depends on how large it is compared to the C version
19:12:07amiconnstrlen() isn't used _that_ much, but e.g. the .lng loader uses it on every single string
19:12:46amiconnOn SH, the asm optimised version is almost 4x as fast as the C version, because it uses a special instruction gcc doesn't use
19:12:49amiconn(cmp/str)
19:13:04n1samiconn: it is very simple, just two lines of inline assembly in a c function, do you think a .S file with pure assembly is better for rockbox- svn to be consistent with the SH version?
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19:15:40andrewg867I have captured that weird random audio issue I have
19:16:12andrewg867please excuse the weird music, I was going throught the random/bass test folder ;) http://205.251.141.103/sansa-i2sbus.ogg
19:16:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:17:10andrewg867that time it seem to have fixed its self by going forward a couple more songs
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19:31:35The-Compilerhi there
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19:37:49floolaHi, I'm floola's dev (floola.com">http://www.floola.com). If there are devs connected I'd like to ask a couple of questions about rockbox's db structure.
19:39:01thegeektry the mailing list
19:39:14konami was seeing a video and when i close it the ipod freeze, now all i got is a black screen
19:39:15Domonoky_floola: i think Slasheri is the db guy here, but other could also know somethink.. just ask your question or try mailinglist..
19:39:55floolakonam: using floola?
19:40:09floolaI'll try the mailing list.
19:40:12SiltaarDomonoky_, I agree your point of view about Nanos, and I didn't bought one... But steel, destiny have put one into my hands...
19:40:28floolakonam: ignore.
19:40:35floolathanks guys. cy
19:40:44Domonoky_konam: just reboot your device..
19:41:28konamDomonoky_ im trying, is an ipod nano
19:41:44konambut is just freeze
19:42:04Domonoky_konam: hold selec+menu i think for ~ 30 secs..
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19:43:13konamthanks dude, i didn't knew that
19:43:28Domonoky_thats "reset" on ipods :-)
19:46:14amiconnHmm, I have a minesweeper ui consistency question
19:46:55amiconnBoth on Iriver and Iaudio, the center button (Select) is 'discover', and a separate button (Play) is 'flag'
19:47:29amiconnHowever, on the recorder it's the opposite: center button (Play) is 'flag', and a separate button (On) is 'discover'
19:47:41mirakhi
19:47:46mirakcan rockbox play aac files ?
19:47:53mirakwith extentions .m4a
19:48:08bluebrotheryes, if they're unencrypted
19:48:19mirakI can play them on totem
19:48:25mirakit should be ok then
19:48:28amiconnI would like to swap buttons for the recorder because 'discover' is needed more often, but then the recorder button mapping is the oldest one, so the change might confuse long-term users
19:49:25Lloreanamiconn: I believe in windows minesweeper (as well as at least some others I've played), "click" is discover, and an alternate flags.
19:49:44LloreanSo it sounds to me like the Recorder key map is... I guess, unexpected.
19:50:07amiconnYes, that's what I think as well
19:50:18amiconnAnd it confuses multi-target rockboxers like me ;)
19:52:47 Quit _Veseliq_ ("www.ModReactor.com www.ModReactor.com www.ModReactor.com www.ModReactor.com www.ModReactor.com")
19:53:37amiconnSo I'll change it...
19:58:56linuxstbmirak: Rockbox's AAC codec has one limitation - the m4a files need to be "streamable". This means that all the metadata (mainly the seektable) is at the start of the file. So if it doesn't work in Rockbox, that may be the cause.
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19:59:34miraklinuxstb: I did not tried yet
19:59:37*mirak is hiding
20:00
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20:04:01*amiconn spots mirak behind his corner and asks about the coldfire mpegplayer patch
20:05:17mirakamiconn: um um
20:05:36mirakamiconn: have you tried to use it ?
20:08:37Juice^where is these new icons for rockbox used?'
20:09:54mirakok this aac files works
20:10:04mirakamiconn: I can't do more than what I did
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20:10:30mirakthat version was working
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20:20:05amiconnmirak: Yes it was, but it contains lots of unused stuff that needs to be cleaned up before svn inclusion
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20:28:30mirakamiconn: well function inside #define ___SOMETHING have no chance to be processed, they are here just for performance tests, you can drop them.
20:28:44mirakthat's pretty obvious :o
20:28:49mirak;-)
20:29:34mirakamiconn: there is only 3 functions unused and they are not preprocessed at all
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20:43:48mud-rockboxthe stuff in firmware/include/*.h is okay for plugins, right? i'm getting all kinds of linker errors when i use it...is there some makefile trickery i need?
20:45:10amiconnNo it's not
20:45:18Domonoky_mud-rockbox: in plugins you should only use the plugin.h
20:45:19mud-rockboxoh, that would do it...
20:45:26Domonoky_and maybe the pluginlib..
20:45:42amiconnplugins can only include plugin.h and stuff in or below apps/plugins/
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20:46:49linuxstbmud-rockbox: What do you need from those .h files?
20:46:50mud-rockboxwhat exactly does the PLUGIN_HEADER do? do i need to put that in every .c file, or only in the main one per plugin?
20:47:17mud-rockboxwell, i'm currently using a ton of stuff from them, but i probably don't need much of it
20:48:39linuxstbMost ofl the standard C functions (string.h etc) are available via the plugin API.
20:48:45mud-rockboxit looks like almost everything i need is in the rb-> stuff anyway, i just think about it...
20:48:53mud-rockboxdidn't think about it*
20:49:05markunmud-rockbox: what are you working on?
20:49:25mud-rockboxtrying to port the sgf parser from gnugo
20:49:58markunah, it's you :)
20:50:05mud-rockboxhaha yep :)
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20:55:22GodEater_linuxstb: do you have any ideas for the mpeg player question in the forums (Plugins)
20:55:24GodEater_?
20:55:40GodEater_I can't think what would have worked in a Feb. build of mpeg player that wouldn't work now...
20:56:27 Quit ompaul (Broken pipe)
20:56:32linuxstbGodEater: The poster isn't making much sense...
20:56:38GodEater_I realise that ;)
20:57:03GodEater_he's clearly an idiot for attempting to update mpeg player on it's own first of all
20:57:07GodEater_but I already told him off for that
20:57:11linuxstbI don't recognise the "format not supported" message
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20:57:29GodEater_ah - so he's probably not even giving us the right error message
20:57:54linuxstbgrep isn't finding it either...
20:58:29*amiconn wonders what would be a convenient mpeg video transcoder for windows
20:59:05markunamiconn: don't worry about it, a DAP is not for video playback anyway :)
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20:59:26amiconnNo it's not, but then we do have video playback...
20:59:36markunbut you are never going to use it..
20:59:51markunor did you change your mind?
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20:59:56GodEater_anyone recommend a good util for windows which can report on an mpegs video and audio codecs ?
20:59:57amiconnNo and no
21:00
21:00:08linuxstbGodEater: GSpot
21:00:18GodEater_linuxstb: thank you
21:00:19linuxstb(so I've heard...)
21:00:23pixelmamarkun: he has the LotR movies as rvf :P
21:00:34markun;)
21:01:22markunjust for testing of course :)
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21:01:51amiconnI won't use video regularly for sure. If I'd want that, I'd get a PMP
21:02:36amiconnBut as we do have video playback, it can be used for showing off rockbox, or watching music video clips occasionally
21:02:49amiconnAnd then I hate it if we have a half-working feature
21:02:58amiconn(like mpeg playback on coldfire)
21:03:29amiconnEither it should be left out, or made working properly
21:03:40*linuxstb wonders if anyone stores a music video in an MP3 id3v2 tag...
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21:03:56Lloreanlinuxstb: It would not surprise me at all if someone did.
21:04:03amiconnMe neither
21:04:34amiconn...having seen a tag with the embedded jpeg pictures being larger than the track itself...
21:05:00mud-rockboxlinuxstb: i had a file that did so, but that was before i retagged my collection
21:05:06GodEater_linuxstb: looks good to me
21:05:14GodEater_even "she" can use it :)
21:05:20markundoes JTAG have less debuging capabilities compared to BDM?
21:06:44GodEater_Llorean: is it possible to change the keyboard shortcuts that our forums use ?
21:07:01LloreanI didn't even know they had keyboard shortcuts.
21:07:14GodEater_Alt+s to save a post
21:07:21GodEater_which sadly is "history" in firefox
21:07:23GodEater_so doesn't work
21:07:28GodEater_does in IE though
21:07:51GodEater_I think Alt+P is preview
21:07:56GodEater_which I don't use
21:08:35 Quit darkless_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:08:49GodEater_I wouldn't mind so much, but the "Tab" order for the controls on the post entry form are screwed up, and you can't tab from the text entry field to the "Post" button easily
21:08:53LloreanGodEater_: As far as I've ever seen, there's no way to configure them through the admin panels.
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21:09:05GodEater_Llorean: bugger. Oh well. Just thought I'd ask.
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21:51:28gh_hi, hi
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21:57:08gh_is there a problem with the current build of rockbox for H120 ? i can't read any music, and all the viewers say "incompatible version"
21:57:16 Join HellDragon [0] (n=JD@unaffiliated/helldragon)
21:58:12Domonoky_gh_: you somehow didnt update the complete .rockbox dir..
21:58:15n1samiconn: I can pastebin my strlen function if you would like to take a look. An interesting note is that it's slightly slower if I put it in iram...
21:58:19mud-rockboxi've only ever gotten 'incompatible version' when i tried to only upgrade part of a build, or the copying failed
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21:58:44gh_Domonoky_, each time, i remove te .roxkbox directory and unzip the zip file at the root of the filesystem of my player
21:58:53gh_should i do something else ?
21:58:56linuxstbDo you have a rockbox.iriver in the root?
21:59:26gh_yes
21:59:33Domonoky_remove it :-)
21:59:40linuxstbThen delete it. You may also have to upgrade to a newer bootloader.
21:59:47gh_ok
22:00
22:00:02gh_is the new version in the zip file of the daily builds ?
22:00:39Domonoky_gh_: yes, it has been moved into the .rockbox dir
22:00:47gh_oh ok
22:00:50gh_is it quite recent ?
22:01:04Domonoky_gh_: i mean the rockbox.iriver file..
22:01:06gh_i hadn't updated my version for a few months
22:01:10gh_yes
22:01:21gh_i got that :)
22:01:37Domonoky_if it is a few months.. its a long time in rockbox time :-)
22:01:59 Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@pD9EB3C49.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
22:02:06DerPapstHi. I'Ve installed rockbox on my toaster. Music n stuff is cool but now my toasts taste like a bag of shit. Anyway i can use the OF for toasting or is there no way to dualboot?
22:02:21peturrofl
22:02:21Domonoky_DerPapst: lol
22:02:43DerPapst:P
22:02:58Domonoky_thats rockbox taste: bag of shit :-)
22:03:34*petur congratulates DerPapst on making it in the credits file
22:03:43DerPapstthanks :)
22:04:03DerPapstamiconn: thank you for commiting my 2 patches :-D
22:04:04gh_Domonoky_, now that i've removed the rockbox.iriver file, my H120 is booting on the officiel firmware
22:04:21Domonoky_gh: update your bootloader..
22:04:29gh_oops sorry
22:06:07GodEater_I think that belongs in GoldenQuotes actually
22:07:32alienbiker99i started to learn c yay =D
22:08:18GodEater_printf("Congratulations!\n");
22:08:42alienbiker99hah
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22:31:24gh_Domonoky_, thank you, it works perfectly now
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22:32:43gh_is the mpeg player supposed to work on iHP-120 N
22:32:44gh_?
22:33:14DerPapstonly the manual knows for sure....
22:34:12gh_the manual doesn't mention that model
22:35:39peturwiki says it does
22:35:46peturhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer
22:36:41peturbut it's not mentioned in any perf table...
22:37:00FebsAre the manual builds broken? The html version is dated June 15 and the pdf version is dated June 21.
22:37:26Bagderthey were broken, should be fine tomorrow again
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22:38:18DerPapstis the iHP-120 the iriver H120?
22:38:23alienbiker99yes
22:38:24Bagderyes
22:38:34DerPapstwhat does the P stand for?
22:38:36BagderiHP being the earlier prefix for their models
22:38:48DerPapstaha
22:38:54alienbiker99they changed it because they were gonna get sued by HP
22:38:54mirakamiconn: there is notthing more to do for idct patch than removing the code where #defines are clearly not reachables
22:39:06mirakamiconn: like ___SOMETHING
22:39:16DerPapstwell the i wouldn't want to watch videos on it :P
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22:39:45amiconnmirak: Well, now there is. IRAM usage needs to be balanced between video decoding and libmad
22:39:46*DerPapst has watched some videos on his 3G iPod and it was anything but fun
22:40:01alienbiker99i need to fix my battery in my H320
22:40:14amiconnAnd iirc there are some possibilities for further optimisation in the asm parts, but that requires gathering them together first
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22:45:35mirakamiconn: actually the idct patch uses just 128 bytes of iram. this ones are absolutely necessary. The rest is not, but of course it won't hurt.
22:46:17mud-rockboxdoes DEBUGF do something on real platforms, or does it get defined out?
22:46:26mirakamiconn: I can explain to you some parts. There are some weird things that I did for the purpose of using register as much as possible instead of accessing iram or ram
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22:48:14mirakamiconn: as you can see in the code there is the C version with matrix multiplication that match the asm one. the original C version is not implemented, it's one with a matrix multiplication too, but it's mathematically optimised to have as few multiplications as possible, some smart guys certainly doctors in sciences made it ^^.
22:49:47mirakamiconn: anyway the idct algorithm is made so one block is processed in one shot, with the algorithm not giving back the end. I think it's better to do it that way, multithread would probably kill performances,
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22:52:53linuxstbmirak: How does your new C version compare (in terms of speed) with the old one?
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22:54:00webguest36The metronome plugin freezes the H140 on a build from a couple days ago...has that been fixed?
22:54:38peturtry it
22:55:05markunI didn't see any metronome commits
22:55:14markunwebguest36: do you know which commit broke it?
22:55:42webguest36not sure, i was using a bleeding edge build from 2 days ago AFAIK
22:55:45miraklinuxstb: the "new" C version is the unoptimised matrix multiciplation
22:56:07miraklinuxstb: there is the paper describin the IDCT done with matrix in the wiki on the mpegplayer page
22:56:26pixelmajhMikeS: didn't see your commit - will get some points now, too ;/
22:56:29linuxstbmirak: Yes. I'm just asking if it's faster or slower than the existing C version.
22:56:33miraklinuxstb: so it's slower. But easier to understand.
22:56:33 Quit webguest36 (Client Quit)
22:56:41linuxstbmirak: Ah, OK.
22:56:53markunmirak: and easier to optimize?
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22:57:23mirakmarkun: well the optimised version cannot profit of emac operations.
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22:57:46mirakmarkun: with emac sse altivec mmx and stuff it's more productive to go brute force
22:57:56mirakwith a simple algorithm
22:58:07 Nick Cleon is now known as sirnick72793 (n=chatzill@ool-4573a1d8.dyn.optonline.net)
22:58:41sirnick72793Hey, will rockbox function using Mac OS X?
22:58:51mirakthe C optimised version of idct used 8 mutiplication and 10 additions, or something like that. but you can't use emac efficiently.
22:59:21Bagdersirnick72793: yes
22:59:48mirakI think I did the optimised version in C, but it wasn't working, I think. I did not continued
23:00
23:00:03sirnick72793Great. Can you give me the link to the download place?
23:00:07mirakI mean I did the optimised C version in asm
23:00:08jhMikeSpixelma: They'll be taken back immediately afterword :)
23:00:22sirnick72793Also, will it work on 2nd Gen Nanos?
23:00:23Bagdersirnick72793: tried rockbox.org?
23:00:28Bagderno
23:01:13mirakmarkun: if the gigabeat doesn't have an emac or sse like, I think it's better to implement the optimised C version. That's the original one in libmpeg2
23:01:29 Quit HellDragon ("reboot")
23:01:37*pixelma hands jhMikeS 530 points :P
23:01:42mirakmarkun: I mean implement the optimised C version in asm
23:01:59jhMikeSgigabeat has dsp instructions and also profits greatly from careful avoidance of memory stalls
23:02:28mirakmarkun: by the way I am back, I didn't had interent for one month. I though I was going to be nut ...
23:02:30markunjhMikeS: are those instructions also available on the ARM9?
23:02:34markuneh, ARM7
23:02:38jhMikeSyes
23:02:50jhMikeSthey're used already in the eq and such
23:02:52markunmirak: yes, can be hard :)
23:03:56mirakby the way I gave up extracting mpeg2 codec from ffmpeg, as you probably not noticed it ^^. I think they got to clean there shity code first. Then we will be able to get something out of it. I don't where they are now
23:05:23jhMikeSwhat's the point in changing video decoders?
23:06:10 Join HellDragon [0] (i=JD@unaffiliated/helldragon)
23:06:48markunjhMikeS: if we find something with better compression with the same speed or the same compression with more speed
23:08:11 Quit GodEater (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:11:32markunjhMikeS: and there are some problems with the limited framerate choices in the mpeg2 standard I believe
23:12:02jhMikeSmarkun: the standard or the decoder implementation?
23:13:02markunI think the encoders are mostly the problem
23:13:08markunlinuxstb: right?
23:14:36amiconnjhMikeS: Strange thing...
23:14:37jhMikeSbut the decoder really isn't responsible for the framerate, the player is
23:15:02amiconncurrent_tick has not been volatile for years, causing no problems...
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23:15:51jhMikeSdepends on the usage really
23:16:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:17:09jhMikeSa simple loop like while(TIME_BEFORE(current_tick, tick)); can just lock unless it is (which of course it shouldn't)
23:17:53amiconnSuch loops are common...
23:18:14jhMikeSit did it to me today, perhaps only the ARM compiler does it
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23:20:12 Quit ompaul ("init 0")
23:21:04jhMikeSmostly I see them for failure checking so if it's ... && !(cond)); and the condition far and away succeeds you'll probably rarely see it
23:21:49linuxstbmarkun: Yes, the framerate in an MPEG-1/2 video stream is limited in the standard to one of a pre-defined list. This list has been unofficially extended with some framerates below 24fps, but IIRC, there's nothing between 15fps and 24fps - which is where most of our targets fall...
23:22:42linuxstbAnd some encoders refuse to encode at the unofficial rates.
23:28:13 Join apcfreak [0] (n=Apcfreak@75-161-10-75.albq.qwest.net)
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23:30:15 Quit gh_ (Remote closed the connection)
23:30:51apcfreakHey guys. Yesterday, I downloaded Rockbox, installed it correctly on my Sansa E250, and it was working great until just a minute ago. I was playing a song, and then went back to the main menu, and a it turned into a white screen with 'Data abort at 00050EE4' at the top. I cant turn it off with the menu button. Any help?
23:31:24 Quit darkless (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:31:26mud-rockboxhold power for around 15 seconds and it should shut off
23:31:49apcfreakok, thanks. that worked
23:32:10mud-rockboxyeah, not sure about that error message, but that almost always lets you try again at least
23:32:28apcfreakNow it is working fine. Thanks!
23:34:48*DerPapst thinks there should be something like a BSOD for rockbox too.. on colour targets it should be an OSOD though.
23:35:02peturLBSOD
23:35:27pixelmaBOSSOD
23:35:31 Quit apcfreak ("HAHA I found out how to have a QUIT message NUCCAS!")
23:35:49petur?
23:36:08pixelmaBag... do I have to say more? ;)
23:36:12 Join saratoga [0] (i=9803c50e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-0795f41797f6daa0)
23:36:21peturarglhmpf... :)
23:36:25DerPapsthehe
23:36:25saratogamaybe we could make the crash screen strobe various colors
23:36:42*jhMikeS was just gonna say this is the second BOS petur didn't step in :)
23:36:50scorchehaha
23:36:53DerPapstor soe random noise like a tv with no signal :P
23:37:13scorchei should get a gdb up where we can put stuff like this that doesnt belong in goldenquotes...
23:37:41scorches/gdb/qdb
23:37:53DerPapststill not sure what LBSOD is though...
23:38:03saratogalight blue screen of death?
23:38:13DerPapsterr..
23:38:25*DerPapst goes into his corner
23:38:57*scorche passed DerPapst a bag to put over his head
23:39:12DerPapstthanks
23:39:19*DerPapst puts bag on
23:39:24 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:39:26scorchewould you prefer a blanket, or will the bag do?
23:39:32saratogaso my current WMA troubles are that the asf parser seems to give bad data when run on targets (sim works fine though)
23:39:45saratogai'm pretty sure malloc is working, and i don't get any crashes
23:40:01saratogawhat else can i check before I dive into the ASF parser?
23:40:21saratoga(presently I have no idea how it works and was hoping to keep it that way)
23:40:48Bagdersaratoga: build a logf() build and sprinkle your code with some calls to it
23:41:00Bagderto verify data in/out being right
23:41:18saratogai was afraid you were going to suggest something to do with reading asf.c
23:41:25Bagderhaha
23:41:32Bagdernow that's #2
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23:42:02*petur wonders if DerPapst checked if there was anything in the bag
23:42:10DerPapsthahaha
23:42:11saratogai guess the thing to do would be to figure out where its actually touching the disk api, and then just log all that crap on the sim and the target
23:42:12linuxstbsaratoga: #3 - throw ffpeg's asf parser away and write a new one
23:42:33saratogalinuxstb: honestly, I think I could write a new wma decoder faster then a new asf parser
23:42:55saratogathey're of comparable size, and the wma deocder actually makes some sense (and has comments!)
23:42:55linuxstbYou don't have to write it from scratch - libasf might be better.
23:45:32saratogalibasf does look interesting
23:45:39saratogathat'd be a good plan b if I don't figure this out soon
23:45:59saratogastill, i wonder what the difference is between running on x86 and arm
23:46:21linuxstbAt the very least, we need a minimal asf parser for the get_metadata() function...
23:46:22Bagderstruct padding/alignment?
23:46:27saratogai'd expect ffmpeg to be pretty platform agnostic anyway, it does run on PPC, etc
23:46:37linuxstbAnd ARM afaik
23:47:09saratogadoes arm have more restrictions on how stuff is aligned then x86?
23:47:32linuxstbYes, everything must be aligned to it's own size (1, 2 or 4 bytes)
23:48:30peturwouldn't that give data aborts?
23:48:31saratogathats certainly something to look for then
23:48:52linuxstbpetur: No, it would mean the compiler pads the structs
23:49:04linuxstbBut I would expect ffmpeg code to take account of that
23:49:13saratogaoh no
23:49:27saratogaso you mean the sizeof stuff i do on x86 might not be the same as on ARM?
23:49:40linuxstbYes ;)
23:50:09saratogawell, that gives me about 10 new places to look in the code
23:50:36 Quit idnar (Nick collision from services.)
23:50:38 Join idnar_ [0] (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
23:50:48 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
23:50:56saratogai'm probably allocating too little space somewhere, and since theres no MMU to watch out for this sort of thing, not realizing it when I overright my data
23:51:11linuxstbDoesn't the code check the return value of malloc?
23:51:34saratogai took out most of the mallocs and replaced then with char[]s
23:52:45 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:53:28saratogathat reminds me, is there some limit to how much memory i can steal from the mp3 buffer?
23:53:39saratogafor testing purposes only
23:54:08 Join scorche` [0] (n=_@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
23:54:12peturthe moment you steal it, you get it all
23:54:18peturdepends on target
23:54:34mud-rockboxokay, in my plugin i have the plugin_api pointer called rb. if i pass that to another object file, is there some reason when in that other object file calls to passed_rb->splash won't work?
23:55:09saratogadid you make rb static?
23:55:12 Quit billytwowilly (Remote closed the connection)
23:55:13 Quit scorche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:55:35 Nick scorche` is now known as scorche (n=_@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
23:55:37mud-rockboxyes, but i'm passing it in to an init function in the second object file
23:55:43 Quit Wiwie ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
23:55:44mud-rockboxshouldn't that work?
23:56:11 Join billytwowilly [0] (n=chris@S0106001346f5afbd.cg.shawcable.net)
23:56:36saratogai don't really understand how c is supposed to work, but yes, i think you could pass it as a reference between files
23:57:05 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
23:57:13mud-rockboxoh good, i wonder why it doesn't then...
23:57:49 Quit HellDragon ("reboot")
23:57:55mud-rockboxit all compiles and runs fine, except any calls into the plugin_api do nothing

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