00:00:47 | Soap | gimp has a descreen filter IIRC, works pretty well regardless of scan resolution. |
00:00:58 | scorche | first order of business is finding the magazine... |
00:02:12 | | Join Wiwie [0] (n=goddi@p5B099026.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
00:02:27 | scorche | which i am utterly failing at |
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00:08:40 | petur | does rockboy really work on the recorder? |
00:09:36 | | Quit bluebrother ("leaving") |
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00:09:41 | pixelma | yes, it works but is slooow |
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00:11:49 | petur | well at the moment it will no longer work ;) |
00:13:58 | Rob2222 | has the H300 USB OTW, yet? |
00:14:03 | Rob2222 | -w+g |
00:14:11 | petur | yes |
00:14:17 | Rob2222 | :D |
00:14:19 | Rob2222 | wow |
00:15:21 | * | petur wonders why the #if CONFIG_CODEC == SWCODEC && !defined(SIMULATOR) line was removed in rbsound.c |
00:15:25 | saratoga | USB OTW == USB OTG? |
00:15:39 | scorche | <Rob2222> -w+g |
00:15:39 | petur | [00:14] <Rob2222> -w+g |
00:15:46 | petur | heh |
00:15:57 | saratoga | thats not proper regex |
00:16:19 | scorche | s/OTW/OTG |
00:16:30 | pixelma | FTW :P |
00:16:39 | scorche | LOL |
00:16:56 | scorche | oye...i cnat even say that in jest without my stomach curdling up =/ |
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00:18:41 | Rob2222 | yes, i meaned OTG. Does it have it? If yes, how to activate? |
00:18:52 | petur | in rockbox? not yet |
00:18:58 | petur | go to the OF |
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00:20:49 | Rob2222 | ah ok. i just asked cause i read some OTG thing ion wiki and changelog. |
00:21:24 | Rob2222 | OF is almost unusable with a80GB disk full with files. it takes years to load. |
00:21:47 | petur | austriancoder is working on a usb stack (device) while I sometimes look at maybe getting a host stack working |
00:21:50 | Rob2222 | I think I have never used the OF since rockbox has audio on H300 ;) |
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00:22:54 | Rob2222 | well, I wish good luck. but for sure OTG is not the most important thing |
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00:24:01 | Rob2222 | is there any newer rockbox device that support >60GB that is newer than the irivers and not an ipod? (i hat the wheel) |
00:24:18 | petur | gigabeat? |
00:24:43 | petur | it also supports mk8007gah |
00:25:04 | Rob2222 | is it the same hd connector as in h300? |
00:25:09 | Rob2222 | (= non zif) |
00:25:11 | Rob2222 | ? |
00:25:23 | petur | yes |
00:25:34 | Rob2222 | coool |
00:26:04 | petur | but gigabeats are also rare :/ |
00:26:20 | petur | you need an F or X model I think |
00:26:21 | linuxstb | Not in toffe's house... |
00:26:30 | petur | hahaha |
00:26:40 | Rob2222 | lol |
00:26:51 | Rob2222 | is it smaller than a h300? |
00:27:59 | linuxstb | It's slightly smaller than my H140 - same width and height, but thinner. I don't know how the h300 compares to the h140... |
00:28:15 | Rob2222 | 340 is bigger |
00:28:19 | Rob2222 | i had both |
00:28:39 | Rob2222 | is the 40gb gigabeat with a 2 platter or 1 platter toshiba disc? anyone know? |
00:28:47 | linuxstb | There are both |
00:28:54 | Rob2222 | ebay just sola a 40gb gigabeat for 140 euros :( |
00:28:55 | linuxstb | The F41 is 1 platter, the F40 is 2 platter. |
00:29:15 | linuxstb | The F41 is even rarer than the F40 though I think. |
00:29:16 | Rob2222 | damn, was an F40 |
00:29:54 | linuxstb | Rob2222: Just remembered this page - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/HardDriveReplacement |
00:30:46 | Rob2222 | ahhh, cool. ths :) |
00:30:49 | Rob2222 | x |
00:31:11 | linuxstb | It may not be 100% accurate yet - it's a relatively new page and is still being completed. |
00:32:00 | Rob2222 | yep. from the hareware the first creative nomad jukebox zen was damn nice |
00:32:05 | * | petur wonders if http://pastebin.com/935567 would be an acceptable fix for the red builds |
00:32:32 | Rob2222 | 2,5" hd, height and width almost exact as the 2,5"hd and thinner than the h340 |
00:32:43 | petur | I know nothing about those archos devices. I just know that code does compile |
00:33:38 | petur | should I just commit it saying 'fix red, may not actually run'? |
00:33:43 | linuxstb | petur: I don't think you need to put the !defined(SIMULATOR) back - sound should work in the sim |
00:34:52 | petur | shall I ? |
00:35:17 | linuxstb | That buffer doesn't look aligned... |
00:35:41 | petur | hmmm right |
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00:36:21 | linuxstb | If it needs to be 4-byte aligned, you could just declare it as an int array. |
00:37:20 | linuxstb | But if there is no PCM output, it seems wasteful to declare a buffer (and presumably to fill it) |
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00:39:42 | petur | frrr it's not my bug to fix, just wanted to do the quick fix |
00:40:31 | petur | that buffer was never 4byte aligned was it? |
00:42:10 | petur | and I don't quite understand the BUFSIZE/sizeof(short) - pcm.len is number of ints? |
00:42:42 | linuxstb | I'm not sure. I don't think you need to declare the buffer though - pcm_submit() is only called in two place. 1) sound.c, surrounded by if(pcm.buf). and 2) emu.c, surrounded by if(options.sound) |
00:43:07 | petur | so just make it NULL? |
00:43:46 | linuxstb | Yes, and make options.sound equal to 0 - in rockboy.c I think. |
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00:45:10 | linuxstb | e.g. at the end of setoptions, just add #if (whatever for HWCODEC) options.sound=0 |
00:45:31 | linuxstb | But this is getting messy.... |
00:46:02 | petur | pcm_submit does nothing anyway so it should be ok? |
00:46:12 | linuxstb | Ah, true... |
00:47:57 | petur | http://pastebin.com/935575 it shall be... |
00:48:13 | petur | bah |
00:48:18 | petur | size must be 0 too |
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00:56:03 | saratoga | what does the "*PANIC* Stkov main" error message mean? |
00:56:11 | petur | stack overflow |
00:56:44 | saratoga | so i'm basically just declaring too much memory in a function somewhere? |
00:56:44 | petur | you're consuming too much stack again ;) |
00:56:53 | petur | probably |
00:57:14 | saratoga | can i print out the stack usage on the UI sim? |
00:57:21 | saratoga | that would be very helpful for me to know |
00:58:05 | linuxstb | Maybe gdb could do it, but I don't know how. |
00:58:15 | jas6180 | are you recursing like mad or have a big array that's going onto the stack or something? those are the usual ways you run into trouble, although i have no idea how big the stack is for rockbox |
00:58:43 | markun | kkurbjun: when are you going to fix it? |
00:58:46 | petur | 8k I think it was |
00:58:51 | saratoga | ah, found a huge array |
00:58:57 | saratoga | thats got to be it |
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00:59:59 | petur | markun: I committed a quickfix for archos, but don't know what to do for h1x0 - I guess the rotate stuff consumes too much iram? |
01:00 |
01:01:33 | jas6180 | i don't suppose there is some way to make repeated button presses happen more quickly, is there? |
01:01:55 | jas6180 | (in a plugin) |
01:04:11 | markun | saratoga: slowly getting there? |
01:04:29 | markun | can I expect a "It works!" in the logs when I wake up? |
01:07:22 | saratoga | markun: no idea, i thought i'd have it a couple days ago |
01:10:35 | saratoga | markun: I think you asked me about looking at it a couple days ago |
01:10:57 | saratoga | its all in #4984 if you're interested |
01:11:09 | markun | thanks |
01:11:15 | markun | but not tonight |
01:11:19 | saratoga | though maybe not lite reading |
01:11:24 | markun | :) |
01:11:51 | * | petur leaves the rockboy iram stuff for somebody else and goes to bed |
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01:13:33 | * | linuxstb wonders why the h1x0 needs a rotate option |
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01:19:13 | saratoga | does it matter if i'm close to the RAM limit for a plugin? |
01:19:23 | saratoga | i'm maybe 5kb short of the error message when I compile |
01:19:35 | saratoga | could that be related to my stack problems? |
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01:22:57 | jas6180 | oh that reminds me: is there a way to tell programatically how much RAM i have left over in a plugin? that would be really useful |
01:23:26 | saratoga | jas6180: the closest I've come is to look at the map file |
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01:24:06 | jas6180 | hmm |
01:24:58 | linuxstb | There's a function to do it as well - plugin_get_buffer() (I think) |
01:25:15 | jas6180 | oh cool, i'll look around for that |
01:25:43 | linuxstb | That will return a pointer to the remaining buffer space, and tell you how big it is |
01:27:17 | linuxstb | saratoga: For a test plugin like your's it doesn't matter. The stack is separate to the main plugin buffer. |
01:27:46 | jas6180 | for a real plugin is there any problem with using up all the space available? |
01:27:50 | linuxstb | But it would be bad for a real plugin, as it is very likely to break in the future. |
01:28:52 | jas6180 | oh, yeah that's fine |
01:30:50 | saratoga | this map file is really interesting |
01:30:58 | saratoga | ffmpeg uses 300KB worth of lookup tables |
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01:38:17 | linuxstb | Ouch... |
01:38:27 | linuxstb | Are they all needed for WMA? |
01:40:27 | saratoga | as currently implemented, yeah |
01:40:33 | saratoga | however, a lot of them seem really dumb |
01:40:53 | saratoga | theres a trig look up table for each block size, and one for both ffts and MDCT rotations |
01:41:07 | saratoga | it seems like with some effort there could be one table used for all that |
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01:48:29 | linuxstb | saratoga: Making the codec smaller will be a good thing anyway... |
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02:06:32 | mud-rockbox | is there some way in the simulator to print things to console for debugging? |
02:07:00 | hcs | the DEBUGF() macro, which works like printf |
02:07:11 | mud-rockbox | thanks much |
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02:29:28 | mud-rockbox | uh, does anyone know anything about the fsqrt function in plugins/lib/fixedpoint.h? specifically...does it work? it seems to be really off for even moderately big values |
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02:32:35 | mud-rockbox | oh calculator's square root seems fine, i'll go see what it's doing and copy |
02:35:26 | mud-rockbox | woh, what...i thought floating point didn't work? |
02:38:07 | linuxstb | It works, but very slowly. |
02:38:32 | linuxstb | So it's fine in something like calculator where you're only perfoming one computation. But don't use it if you're doing many. |
02:39:48 | mud-rockbox | ohh, i see. haha i thought it just didn't work at all, i was very confused to see it in calc...okay, that actually saves me a lot of trouble |
02:41:40 | linuxstb | If you're working on something you hope to get added to Rockbox SVN, you'll be encouraged to avoid floats wherever possible though. |
02:43:59 | mud-rockbox | yeah, it's definitely not heavy usage, basically just storing a couple of them and addition probably twice per plugin run |
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02:54:28 | RoC_MasterMind | floating point is ineffecient for the processor? |
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03:00 |
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03:08:40 | safetydan | RoC_MasterMind: floating point calculations have to be emulated by the integer part of the CPU. So yeah, they're really, really slow. |
03:09:23 | RoC_MasterMind | thanks. |
03:10:35 | safetydan | mud-rockbox: the fsqrt in the plugin lib is designed for fixed point use. It will produce garbage for floating point. it should be pretty good as it's used by the software equalizer |
03:11:33 | mud-rockbox | ah i must have screwed up the usage somehow...maybe it was input as normal long, not fixed point or something |
03:11:37 | mud-rockbox | wants* |
03:12:04 | mud-rockbox | either way i just hacked up something and it's working now |
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03:58:36 | mud-rockbox | this isn't directly a rockbox question, but is it known how to disable the sansa e200 OF's "Refresh Database" thing? it's unbelivably annoying |
03:59:55 | Llorean | mud-rockbox: If you're using an up to date bootloader, it should be disabled for Rockbox's use of the USB mode for most Sansa firmware versions. |
04:00 |
04:00:02 | Llorean | Though I think the newest one or two may not have it disabled. |
04:00:15 | mud-rockbox | oh, i'll try updating my bootloader |
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04:01:25 | JdGordon | the newest OF does something different so we cant disable the rebuild (or havnt found out how to) |
04:01:47 | JdGordon | which is painfully annoying because you cant downgrade to a working one and still be able to disable it |
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04:01:51 | mud-rockbox | ah i see, actually that might be my problem, my e280 isn't very old and i updated the OF before i installed rockbox... |
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04:03:45 | Llorean | JdGordon: I thought the only non-downgradeable was the Hebrew supporting beta firmware. |
04:04:55 | JdGordon | i dunno, I've tried downrading mine to a known OF but i still get the rebuild and cant find any changes bits... |
04:05:21 | Llorean | Are you sure you downgraded? |
04:05:45 | Llorean | It may not have actually loaded the older firmware |
04:07:23 | JdGordon | yep, its really got the older version on |
04:08:05 | JdGordon | once we can boot rockbox off the mSD card it wont make any difference anyway, updating rb is about the only time i connect to usb |
04:08:30 | mud-rockbox | oh, that would be really nice |
04:09:28 | andrew__ | Llorean: its easy to wongrade from 1.3 |
04:09:32 | andrew__ | *downgrade |
04:09:45 | andrew__ | I had did that before someone posted the 1.03 filenames |
04:09:49 | Llorean | andrew__: Yes, but you have to rename the file. |
04:10:03 | Llorean | I meant more that it's just not obvious |
04:10:13 | andrew__ | I just manually used dd to put in the file from one of the rockbox information pages |
04:10:23 | andrew__ | onto the 20mb partition |
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04:11:05 | Llorean | That ought to work for any firmware version, ever, until the bootloader in flash changes. |
04:11:16 | andrewg867 | yeah |
04:11:35 | andrewg867 | and it was really nice to see someone finally finish that FM driver :) |
04:11:36 | JdGordon | hmm.. I actually have a copy of my old 20mb partition.. might try dding it back |
04:11:53 | mud-rockbox | hmm, is api->lcd_update() really expensive? |
04:12:06 | mud-rockbox | like, does it take a real world noticable amount of time? |
04:12:12 | andrewg867 | JdGordon: no promises, I just did that because it was my only option between returning it to the store if I corrupted it |
04:13:25 | andrewg867 | you can run an older firmware with a newer bootloader, I'm pretty sure |
04:13:29 | linuxstb | mud-rockbox: That depends on which device you're using. |
04:13:32 | andrewg867 | just call it firmware.mi4 |
04:14:03 | andrewg867 | for example, 1.02 firmware on the 1.03 bootloader |
04:14:04 | linuxstb | mud-rockbox: This page has some benchmarks - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LcdFrameRate |
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04:15:16 | mud-rockbox | oh, thanks...yeah i think i'm doing something else wrong, my drawing is taking like 1 second which makes the input really laggy |
04:15:58 | linuxstb | How are you drawing? |
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04:16:22 | mud-rockbox | lots of lcd_hline and lcd_vline mostly |
04:16:31 | linuxstb | What do you mean by lots? |
04:16:54 | mud-rockbox | probably... about 300 or so, and maybe 4 fillrects |
04:17:17 | mud-rockbox | that shouldn't be that slow, right? |
04:17:46 | linuxstb | Which target are you testing on? |
04:17:51 | mud-rockbox | sansa e280 |
04:18:30 | JdGordon | mud-rockbox: your not doing multiple lcd_updaterect s are you? |
04:18:40 | JdGordon | on the sansa an update rect does a full update i think |
04:18:53 | mud-rockbox | no, just one lcd_update |
04:19:05 | mud-rockbox | oh, setting foreground color isn't expensive is it? i do that a few times |
04:19:11 | linuxstb | You're saying it takes about 1 second to draw 300 lines and 4 fillrects? |
04:19:31 | mud-rockbox | haha, well it seems to, i need to do some profiling to figure out what's lagging i guess... |
04:20:41 | mud-rockbox | oh oh, false alarm...haha...stupid mistake |
04:20:51 | mud-rockbox | it's fast now |
04:23:03 | andrewg867 | JdGordon: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3225.msg63355#msg63355 is the post :) |
04:24:32 | JdGordon | cheers |
04:24:41 | andrewg867 | oh and does anyone notice random de-syncs of the audio DAC's I2S bus (I assume) when skipping throughs songs fast on the sansa? |
04:25:21 | andrewg867 | it happens to me randomly when I got through files fast without waiting a couple seconds for the song to start playing |
04:25:28 | andrewg867 | *go through |
04:25:58 | mud-rockbox | hmm, i haven't noticed it on mine |
04:26:16 | andrewg867 | I have crossfading enabled which might be partly to blame |
04:26:21 | saratoga | flash access used to be pretty slow on the sansa |
04:26:31 | saratoga | that might be an issue still if you're forcing it to acess the disk while playing |
04:27:43 | andrewg867 | it sounds as if the I2S bus becomes de-synced because it is a loud white noise sound like an FM radio untuned |
04:27:51 | saratoga | oh wow |
04:27:59 | andrewg867 | if it happens again I will record it |
04:28:14 | andrewg867 | I will try to make it happen right now ;) |
04:28:49 | mud-rockbox | that sounds pretty scary, that hasn't happened for me, i just tried to jam on skip track for a bit and it seems fine |
04:29:21 | andrewg867 | It doesn't happen very often though |
04:29:26 | saratoga | if you can reproduce it, I suggest letting Austrian Coder know |
04:29:52 | andrewg867 | and wtf was that |
04:30:00 | andrewg867 | that was really weird |
04:30:10 | andrewg867 | you know that screen white -> purple bug |
04:30:22 | andrewg867 | it just happened before the main screen on the real firmware... |
04:31:02 | andrewg867 | it was the bootloader logo, white, black (firmware loading) then fade to purpleish then the main screen came up |
04:31:04 | Llorean | andrewg867: Are you using the last bootloader from the sansapatcher.exe, or an SVN current one? |
04:31:22 | andrewg867 | I used one fro a month or so back |
04:31:39 | Llorean | Did you compile it yourself, or is it the one from sansapatcher.exe? |
04:31:44 | andrewg867 | I have the newest rockbox though, I can update it right now since it needs to be charged |
04:32:01 | andrewg867 | I'm pretty sure it was from sansapatcher.exe |
04:32:09 | andrewg867 | which one do you recommend? |
04:32:13 | Llorean | Try compiling one yourself and using sansapatcher to -a it. |
04:32:40 | andrewg867 | time to start the development VM :) |
04:33:38 | Llorean | There were changes to fix the screen purpling thingy, but since they have to do with hardware init, I suspect a new bootloader would be relevant to them. |
04:35:25 | andrewg867 | compiled, is sansapatcher.exe on download.rockbox.org? |
04:35:48 | Llorean | Yeah |
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04:35:55 | andrewg867 | can't I just rename the mi4 to firmware.mi4 as I always did to update the firmware? |
04:35:56 | Llorean | All you need to compile is the bootloader file |
04:36:16 | Llorean | If you do that you won't have dual boot, which is kinda necessary to access USB mode |
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04:36:32 | andrewg867 | Llorean: how so? |
04:37:12 | Llorean | Because the original firmware is stored in the firmware partition, and if you use recovery mode on a Rockbox mi4 file (bootloader or Rockbox itself) it'll overwrite it? |
04:37:19 | andrewg867 | I always did it just by copying over the compiled mi4 to the root and rebooting, it installs the new "firmware" (rb bootloader) and it works as usual |
04:37:37 | andrewg867 | I have the original firmware in \SYSTEM\OF.bin? |
04:37:44 | Llorean | You told me you used sansapatcher... |
04:38:08 | andrewg867 | at one point but that was early on before it copied and booted the firmware from the 20mb partition? |
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04:38:33 | andrewg867 | I guess I haven't been around here for a while |
04:39:07 | Llorean | I don't know if the newest bootloaders will load of.bin, honestly. |
04:39:15 | Llorean | You're expected to have it installed the way the manual describes it. |
04:39:20 | Llorean | It might still have that function. |
04:41:15 | andrewg867 | hrm it says I have the old bootloader |
04:43:05 | andrewg867 | I wonder what chipset the Sandisk Sansa Connect has |
04:44:25 | mud-rockbox | yeah i looked at one of those in the store, they looked pretty nice actually |
04:45:49 | andrewg867 | and according to the sandisk site the regular sansa's are cheaper than the R models |
04:46:31 | mud-rockbox | hmm, not in fry's when i got mine, but that doesn't necessarily mean much |
04:47:13 | andrewg867 | the wiki should be updated, recording the FM radio in RB works fine for me (even directly encoding to mp3 :) ) |
04:48:16 | andrewg867 | I still can't seem to find the page on the sandisk site with the 1.03 firmware on it :/ |
04:49:33 | mud-rockbox | oh good, i'm overflowing the stack |
04:50:15 | Llorean | andrewg867: The 1.03 was the beta, right? |
04:51:21 | andrewg867 | yeah, I just found a rapidshare link when you said that |
04:52:00 | Llorean | I think they took it down, officially. |
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04:56:39 | andrewg867 | there is a new 01.02.18A though |
04:56:54 | andrewg867 | aparently you can put videos on the microSD card now |
05:00 |
05:02:20 | mud-rockbox | oh, i guess the manual wasn't kidding when it said i have to call default_event_handler...it stack overflows if i dont and i hold power |
05:03:51 | andrewg867 | I love how rockbox is somewhat louder than the original firmware ;) |
05:04:36 | mud-rockbox | hmm, i think mine is quieter |
05:04:45 | mud-rockbox | oh, that probably has something to do with replaygain |
05:04:59 | andrewg867 | I just have the bass and trebel up on RB too |
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05:16:50 | andrewg867 | uhh is the patch tracker broken? |
05:17:07 | andrewg867 | er never mind, dillo is broken |
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05:31:37 | andrewg867 | If I am getting "undefined refrence to '−−compound_literal.*'" where * is a random number does that mean my gcc is too old? |
05:31:45 | scorche | yes |
05:32:39 | andrewg867 | what version should I be using, mine is currently 4.0.2 |
05:33:05 | scorche | the wiki says |
05:33:37 | mud-rockbox | arm-elf-gcc says it's 4.0.3 on mine |
05:33:39 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
05:33:59 | scorche | 4.0.3 is the correct version, yes |
05:34:30 | andrewg867 | alright, thanks |
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05:36:45 | mud-rockbox | if i copy over a full dynamic allocation algorithm (public domain, so license is fine), is that going to hurt inclusion of a plugin into SVN? |
05:40:10 | saratoga | some of the plugins already have dynamic memory, so its probably ok unless its really ugly or impacticle |
05:40:18 | | Join jurrie [0] (n=jurrie@adsl-068-209-041-021.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
05:40:23 | mud-rockbox | ah okay |
05:40:37 | saratoga | what are you writing anyway |
05:41:03 | scorche | a mud? =) |
05:41:19 | mud-rockbox | game recorder for go/baduk/weiqi/igo. really i don't need dynamic alloc, but i can steal gpl code really easily if i just use it |
05:41:43 | | Quit darkless (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
05:42:08 | mud-rockbox | and if i ever go insane and port gnugo like i'd like to, i think it will be required |
05:42:47 | mud-rockbox | haha not writing a MUD, my name is mud ;) |
05:44:05 | Llorean | scorche: Actually, I wrote a mud for the TI-86 once. Heh. |
05:44:23 | Llorean | Seeing gnugo (or any Go) for Rockbox would be really neat |
05:44:51 | mud-rockbox | yeah, porting gnugo scares me, but an SGF recorder will be really easy, i'll probably be finished-ish by tomorrow or so |
05:45:43 | mud-rockbox | if gnugo didn't use so much memory it would be a lot easier |
06:00 |
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06:00:29 | | Join konam [0] (n=konam@102stb68.codetel.net.do) |
06:01:19 | saratoga | i noticed a lot of the other malloc functions call rb->plugin_get_buffer to allocate memory |
06:01:32 | saratoga | what is the advantage of doing this verses just statically allocating a buffer? |
06:02:06 | mud-rockbox | you get all of the left over available memory, instead of having to keep changing it at compile time every time your code+data size changes |
06:02:12 | mud-rockbox | i think |
06:12:50 | | Join rift_ [0] (n=opera@218.56.70-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
06:16:15 | konam | i've downloaded the ipodnano 1st gen rockbox version and it looks a little bit 'ugly' did i download an outdated version? |
06:16:35 | saratoga | where did you download from? |
06:16:39 | mud-rockbox | you probably just need to change themes, the default one isn't very pretty |
06:16:41 | konam | i've downloaded this: http://build.rockbox.org/dist/build-ipodnano/rockbox.zip |
06:16:55 | saratoga | thats the current build |
06:17:02 | konam | mud-rockbox but the fonts are a little bit small |
06:17:16 | mud-rockbox | yes, you can change the font |
06:17:37 | saratoga | might want to look through the manual |
06:17:54 | konam | but to one bigger than that right? |
06:18:03 | konam | which one do you recomend me? |
06:18:22 | mud-rockbox | try the nimbus fonts, there's a lot of different sizes |
06:18:30 | mud-rockbox | nimbus-14 should be more than big enough |
06:19:28 | saratoga | does anyone know what the endianness of the Gigabeat and Ipods is |
06:20:26 | saratoga | oh little endian |
06:35:32 | konam | it seems that there's a problem with my installation, it looks really bad and small compare to the ipodnano screen, very small |
06:37:11 | mud-rockbox | and have you tried differnt fonts and/or themes? |
06:37:16 | safetydan | konam, have you installed font pack? |
06:37:21 | | Quit AdmiralJ ("Quitting") |
06:37:37 | konam | safetydan no |
06:38:06 | konam | mud-rockbox i've tried several themes, but the main menu looks very small |
06:38:16 | mud-rockbox | and fonts? |
06:38:35 | mud-rockbox | i think there's at least a few bigger fonts that come without even the fontpack, but i'm not certain |
06:39:20 | safetydan | mud-rockbox, I believe all fonts apart from the system font are separate downloads |
06:39:31 | mud-rockbox | ah, i see. my bad |
06:39:37 | safetydan | I believe this is covered in the installation instructions in the manual |
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06:40:40 | safetydan | konma, go to http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxExtras and grab the fonts package and install that by unzipping it to your iPod |
06:42:11 | konam | i've downloaded a theme, to install it i have to copy the files to differetn locations right? |
06:42:39 | safetydan | konam, most themes won't work until you install the fonts |
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06:43:01 | konam | safetydan the them comes with a font |
06:43:06 | konam | i guess is the font it needs |
06:43:32 | konam | tell me if i'm right about 'copy the files to different locations'? |
06:43:41 | h4ngedm4n | how do i turn on dimming instead of display shutting off? |
06:44:44 | mud-rockbox | what exactly do you mean? |
06:45:30 | safetydan | I haven't really used themes much, but as I understand it, most should just be unzipped on to your iPod to install. |
06:46:07 | h4ngedm4n | well originally, on the x5 it dims after say 10 seconds then shuts off display later, but i cant find any dimming configuration under rockbox |
06:46:28 | konam | just unzip them to the ipod, i don't have to copy it to the themes folder or anything else? |
06:46:34 | konam | safetydan well |
06:46:57 | mud-rockbox | there's the backlight configuration, is that what you're looking for? |
06:47:25 | h4ngedm4n | yeah for having an intermediate dimming mode |
06:48:07 | konam | mud-rockbox there are several files that i think i must put them in different directories in the ipod-rockbox tree |
06:48:32 | mud-rockbox | konam: i wasn't the one that said that, but i'm rather sure you just unzip them to your player |
06:48:54 | | Quit rift_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
06:48:56 | mud-rockbox | to the root directory of it that is |
06:49:25 | safetydan | konam, it will depend on the structure of the files in the .zip. If it is already laid out correctly, then yes it's just an unzip. If they're not correct, then you'll have to do it by hand. |
06:49:33 | jurrie | all properly packaged themes should be unzipped to your DAP's root (/).... all files included in the .zip files should go into /.rockbox |
06:50:13 | jurrie | just "unzip -l <mytheme.zip>" to see if they follow the conventions |
06:52:05 | safetydan | h4ngedm4n: I don't believe there's a dimming option for Rockbox for x5. You can control how long the back light stays on, and how quickly it fades in/out, but that's about it. |
06:52:20 | konam | ok, done it |
06:52:44 | konam | is just unpacked and 'let it' reemplace the former folders |
06:52:46 | h4ngedm4n | safetydan: ok thanks. whats the fade in/out option called? |
06:53:09 | h4ngedm4n | im in "LCD Settings" atm and dont see any fade config |
06:53:11 | safetydan | h4ngedm4n: it's under the LCD settings somewhere |
06:53:12 | konam | now looks pretty good! thanks |
06:54:00 | safetydan | h4ngedm4n: odd, I have Backlight Fade In and Backlight Fade Out as settings on my h120 (which is the same CPU as the x5). Maybe no one has fading working on the x5 lcd... |
06:54:45 | mud-rockbox | yeah, those settings don't exist on e200 either, although that's not surprising since it's a newish port |
06:55:12 | h4ngedm4n | yeah probably not. i see Backlight, Backlight (While Plugged In), Backlight (On Hold Key), Caption Backlight, First Keypress Enables Backlight Only, Sleep (After Backlight Off), some others |
06:55:34 | safetydan | Yup, just checked the source. Looks like backlight fading isn't available for the x5. |
06:55:44 | h4ngedm4n | imma just make it dim and leave it on for some long time |
06:56:04 | safetydan | backlight eats battery very quickly though |
06:56:16 | h4ngedm4n | even when dimmed? |
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06:56:51 | mud-rockbox | hmm, is there some way for a plugin to disable the idle poweroff? or a "i'm doing stuff" function maybe? |
06:57:04 | safetydan | if it's the same as the h120 then it's actually worse when dimmed as it ups the cpu clock to make the backlight pwm smoother |
06:57:29 | h4ngedm4n | damn lol |
06:59:45 | | Join piroko [0] (n=jeremy@dialup-4.225.88.161.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net) |
06:59:52 | piroko | Hello everyone! |
06:59:56 | h4ngedm4n | sorry to keep asking noob questions, but whats "Remote-LCD Settings" ? |
07:00 |
07:00:11 | safetydan | mud-rockbox: call rb->reset_poweroff_timer(); every so often. That's what the mpegplayer plugin seems to do |
07:00:23 | mud-rockbox | ah, thanks |
07:00:25 | safetydan | h4ngedm4n: they're the settings for the lcd remote (if you have one) |
07:00:37 | h4ngedm4n | whats an lcd remote? |
07:00:48 | safetydan | h4ngedm4n: a remote for your player that has an lcd screen |
07:01:16 | h4ngedm4n | oh its one of those attachments you use to play/stop/forward/backward & show song title? |
07:01:24 | mud-rockbox | yes |
07:01:45 | piroko | Is anyone specifically maintaining the flac codec? Because it's not working on my 4G grey iPod :-/ |
07:01:54 | RoC_MasterMind | uh oh |
07:02:09 | RoC_MasterMind | it was working for me the other day on a recent build |
07:02:14 | safetydan | piroko: are you getting an error message? |
07:02:19 | RoC_MasterMind | anything more specific piroko ? |
07:02:21 | piroko | Hmm... It just kinda sits there on mine |
07:02:24 | piroko | No errors |
07:02:31 | safetydan | Nothing's changed in the flac code lately that I recall. |
07:02:42 | piroko | The play icon is there, the hd spins up for a bit, but then it just sits there. No time elapsed or anything |
07:02:51 | mud-rockbox | known good flac files? |
07:02:52 | piroko | It's not locked up either |
07:02:59 | piroko | Yep. Tested on my computer |
07:03:27 | | Join tri170391 [0] (n=tri17039@125.234.72.97) |
07:04:28 | piroko | I used sound-juicer in linux to rip and encode the cd. I'm gonna try just using the commandline flac encoder for kicks |
07:05:19 | | Quit tri170391 ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12") |
07:05:37 | piroko | Ok now that's weird. |
07:05:43 | RoC_MasterMind | To be honest, piroko try rebooting the unit. I updated from 2/2006 to 6/2007 a few days ago, and noticed I actually got it confused...it was playing while paused and paused while the play icon was displayed...then a little later it froze. |
07:06:02 | mud-rockbox | is there some guide to the build system for plugins? i'm going to need more than one object file, and all of these makefiles look really messy |
07:06:20 | piroko | The command-line version encode plays fine |
07:06:32 | piroko | I think sound-juicer uses an encoder from gst-plugins |
07:06:39 | safetydan | mud-rockbox: there's no guide but copying from one of the other multifile plugins. Generally you'll need to create your directory, Makefile, and SOURCES file. |
07:06:48 | piroko | But it still plays fine on my computer... Very strange :-/ |
07:08:15 | mud-rockbox | safetydan: i see...well maybe it's time to call it a day, these makefiles all hurt my head, there's like a million constants all over that i have no idea what they're refering to |
07:08:46 | piroko | Here's the line that gstreamer gets fed to encode to flac, anything look strange?: audio/x-raw-int,rate=44100,channels=2 ! flacenc name=enc |
07:10:52 | | Part pixelma |
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07:17:45 | | Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
07:19:01 | piroko | I wish I knew what the gstreamer plugin does differently than the "official" flac encoder |
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07:19:28 | mud-rockbox | yeah that's odd if the official one won't work... |
07:21:05 | piroko | I can't for the life of me find a decent CD ripping program in linux. Anyone have any suggestions? |
07:22:59 | mud-rockbox | i used to use grip, but it's been years |
07:23:14 | mud-rockbox | don't remember it being horrible at least... |
07:23:53 | scorche | well, the question is a bit off topic.. |
07:26:06 | piroko | I'm sorry. I thought it was at least semi-on topic because I'm trying to rip things FOR rockbox... :-/ |
07:28:28 | scorche | that said, grip is likely the most popular |
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07:28:53 | Llorean | I believe you have to override grip's desire to use ID3 tags, though |
07:29:08 | scorche | for flac, likely |
07:29:14 | scorche | i havent really used it before |
07:29:53 | Llorean | Yeah, for flac, but that was what was under discussion. ;) |
07:30:08 | Llorean | I seem to recall people coming in with flacs that had ID3 tags, and it was grip to blame, though I don't now if it's still a concern. |
07:30:16 | scorche | piroko: i believe EAC will work in wine as well |
07:30:36 | scorche | (which is what i would use) |
07:30:44 | piroko | I'm on a powerpc ;) |
07:31:26 | piroko | Llorean: That could be the issue. Sound-juicer definitely used ID3 tags |
07:31:31 | scorche | if we want to take this further, there is always qemu =P |
07:31:35 | | Quit RoC_MasterMind ("Leaving") |
07:31:48 | piroko | scorche: Haha. I'd rather not have to wait a day for my cd to complete ;) |
07:32:00 | scorche | qemu is actually quite fast... |
07:32:04 | Llorean | piroko: flac files should use vorbis comments for tagging |
07:32:25 | piroko | Llorean: I'm gonna try to tag the files with grip (because it uses the flac program) and see if it kills rockbox again |
07:34:13 | piroko | Hmm... grip doesn't want to tag flacs... Would it be best if I just forget about tags and rely on filenames instead when dealing with flacs? |
07:35:24 | Llorean | Or just use something that tags them in vorbis comments... |
07:35:39 | Llorean | Most tools should be fine with this. |
07:35:52 | piroko | I'm not familiar with any :( |
07:36:28 | piroko | Basically, I have a lot of cd's to rip, and the more automated I can make this, the better |
07:36:49 | piroko | I just don't wanna make a bunch of tracks that rockbox can't play |
07:37:00 | Llorean | Pretty much every tool I've used has supported them, and used them by default. |
07:37:09 | Llorean | In fact, the only program I knew of that didn't until now was grip. |
07:37:19 | h4ngedm4n | try cdevour, its set up to work with a separate cdripper user you create |
07:37:46 | h4ngedm4n | and it records what it rips so it wont waste time re-ripping cds you stuck in and ripped successfully |
07:37:51 | piroko | Woot. Bash scripting |
07:38:01 | mud-rockbox | haha |
07:38:10 | h4ngedm4n | yeah its lightweight & straight up scripting, but i like it alot |
07:38:26 | piroko | But it appears to only support ogg :-/ |
07:38:34 | | Join ComputinChuck [0] (n=nate@cpe-24-221-40-82.az.sprintbbd.net) |
07:38:37 | h4ngedm4n | oh i thought u wanted ogg, my bad |
07:39:08 | piroko | Haha. No biggie. Ogg works too. I'm not an audiophile. It'll probably be lighter on the cpu anyway |
07:39:28 | daurn | hey |
07:39:36 | h4ngedm4n | it decouples the rip & encode processes so u can get through the cd's asap while the computer catches up on encoding |
07:39:46 | piroko | Awesome |
07:39:58 | piroko | That's the way I like it :-D |
07:42:40 | piroko | It can do flac! Hooray! |
07:43:08 | | Join Koston [0] (i=atte@ass.hole.fi) |
07:43:33 | konam | men, this firmware seems pretty good |
07:43:41 | konam | i want to know something |
07:44:05 | konam | the battery life is shorter with this firmware or with the original one? |
07:44:16 | scorche | that depends on your device |
07:44:18 | mud-rockbox | it depends on the player |
07:44:34 | konam | mine is an ipod nano 1st gen |
07:44:39 | scorche | then yes it does |
07:44:55 | konam | in the system info says 9hrs left, that's pretty good for me |
07:45:07 | scorche | the estimate is wrong |
07:45:15 | Koston | this is probably FAQ, but still. what's the problem with iPod nano (1st gen) getting weird memory error with any recent build? |
07:45:17 | mud-rockbox | in my experience, those estimates are more like wild guesses |
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07:45:31 | scorche | Koston: i havent experienced that... |
07:45:33 | Llorean | Koston: What do you mean "weird memory error"? |
07:45:39 | konam | oh, so is much than that? |
07:45:41 | scorche | Koston: are you using the latest bootloader? |
07:45:52 | | Quit HellDragon (Nick collision from services.) |
07:45:59 | Koston | scorche, ...probably not. |
07:46:09 | mud-rockbox | konam: the real time left is a number basically not related to rockbox's estimate |
07:46:28 | scorche | well, update to the latest bootloader and build, and then come back |
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07:46:53 | Koston | schorche, ack, thanks. |
07:47:05 | HellDragon | schorche. |
07:47:11 | konam | mud-rockbox so then, what is the stimate for, the devs didn't knew what they were doing? |
07:47:48 | Llorean | konam: The estimate is code that works on other players, but is mostly useless because there's not proper calibration data programmed in for all the iPods yet. |
07:47:51 | scorche | konam: it was a remnant from other devices that wasnt disabled or adapted to the ipod's particular battery, basically |
07:47:51 | mud-rockbox | konam: welcome to the world of volunteers working on software that isn't released |
07:48:04 | Llorean | konam: You're more than welcome to calibrate it and submit a patch. |
07:48:48 | konam | that question was a 'sarcasm' it seems that i have to practice more |
07:48:51 | konam | :) |
07:49:01 | konam | don't get mad at me, sorry |
07:49:09 | scorche | no one got mad |
07:49:27 | konam | but the the battery life is more than the stimate? |
07:49:32 | scorche | it depends |
07:49:35 | scorche | typically less |
07:49:48 | Llorean | Expect somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 of what you get in the original firmware. |
07:49:54 | Llorean | A lot depends on your use habits, and your settings |
07:50:23 | konam | damn it |
07:50:33 | konam | well, i will have to test it myself |
07:50:56 | scorche | make sure and test the OF under similar conditions as well ;) |
07:51:55 | konam | well, the OF is tested with my own experience and every single day that i use it |
07:52:08 | konam | i will use the ipod in the same way |
07:52:25 | piroko | h4ngedm4n: How did you get cdevour to recognize your cd drive? |
07:52:30 | ComputinChuck | do you guys have any use for the benchmark data collected with the plugin? |
07:52:31 | konam | but it will be hard to leave this firmware, i like it |
07:52:35 | amiconn | Bagder: ping... |
07:52:40 | ComputinChuck | the battery benchmark data that is |
07:53:03 | konam | Llorean where do you get those numbers? |
07:53:18 | Llorean | konam: What numbers? The 1/2 to 2/3? |
07:53:22 | konam | yeah |
07:53:37 | Llorean | I listen a lot, and people talk a lot, and I put together a rough, rough estimate. |
07:53:37 | konam | i could come back here with my results |
07:54:16 | konam | cool |
07:54:33 | konam | see ya, thanks every one |
07:54:48 | konam | i come back tomorrow |
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08:10:01 | scorche | hrm...was something done to logbot recently?...it no longer likes the "seen" command |
08:10:35 | scorche | oh whoops...wrong logbot >_> |
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08:17:26 | daurn | hi' |
08:18:44 | kfazz | hi |
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09:02:24 | amiconn | B4gder: Regarding the manual build problem on debian unstable - does this box still have tetex installed? |
09:02:41 | B4gder | yes |
09:02:50 | B4gder | three tetex packages |
09:03:01 | B4gder | -bin, -base, -extra |
09:03:16 | amiconn | There was a transition to texlive some time ago. During transition manual build didn't work anymore with tetex. |
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09:03:50 | B4gder | aha |
09:03:55 | amiconn | After finishing the transition to texlive everything worked again |
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09:05:31 | B4gder | ok, so maybe we should try to remove tetex and install texlive then |
09:08:18 | B4gder | texlive was there already |
09:08:29 | B4gder | I just removed tetex*, and it seems the build works |
09:09:26 | B4gder | the html zip too |
09:09:28 | B4gder | amiconn: thanks! |
09:12:07 | amiconn | It's somewhat odd that doing the transition didn't remove tetex for you. It did here... |
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09:46:00 | B4gder | ok, I hope to move the build.rockbox.org server later this week |
09:46:32 | GodEater | where to ? |
09:46:45 | B4gder | (back) to the www.rockbox.org host |
09:47:21 | B4gder | this should only have an effect if someone limits from where the rbclient is allowed to login from |
09:47:44 | GodEater | not me |
09:47:47 | GodEater | :) |
09:48:01 | B4gder | otherwise I'll mostly stop it on the current host, copy everything and then start the script on the new place |
09:48:45 | B4gder | speaking of servers |
09:49:05 | B4gder | the mpegplayer wiki page points out mikachu's server for the mpegs, we don't have to do that anymore |
09:49:30 | B4gder | they're now accessible fine on download.rockbox.org/mpeg/ |
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10:37:14 | XavierGr | yup quite strange B4gder: I had to do the same to get the manual running in VM |
10:37:48 | XavierGr | ehm no now that I rethink I did something different |
10:37:59 | B4gder | haha |
10:38:08 | XavierGr | installed tetex then live and then removed live and installed tetex again |
10:39:56 | XavierGr | speaking of it, I didnt test you vmware image yet amiconn, sorry didn't find the time these days |
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10:45:04 | senab | say i wanted to use the same image twice in a wps at different co-ordinates |
10:45:21 | senab | would rockbox be clever enough to load the image just once? |
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10:49:36 | petur | senab: if nobody else here knows it, Nico_P is who you need to ask (or look at the code ;)) |
10:50:29 | senab | i was going too, just thought it'd might be quicker to ask her first ;) |
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11:20:55 | crop | Hello. IIUC, the RB port for zune isn't going to come any time soon because the hardware is protected against custom firmware. Is this the new trend? I.e. do other manufacturers do the same? If yes then RB is (pity!) a dead end. |
11:21:30 | B4gder | it's not new, they all do this |
11:21:34 | JdGordon | nice and optimistic of you crop :) |
11:21:51 | B4gder | even the very first rockbox port was for a target trying to prevent it |
11:22:02 | B4gder | the new here is that they are better at it |
11:22:02 | crop | B4gder: but now they do it right! |
11:22:41 | crop | JdGordon: I just try to be realistic. You know: a pessimist is a well informed optimist :-) |
11:23:02 | B4gder | and I don't think it is a dead end |
11:23:07 | crop | How do you (RB devs) see it? |
11:23:10 | B4gder | it just takes more effort to some targets |
11:24:57 | crop | B4gder: but if they use the right algorithms and implement it properly there is little chance to crack it. Since intractability of the algorithms has been checked and almost proven. |
11:25:31 | B4gder | I agree, it can in fact be made almost impossible. But... |
11:25:50 | B4gder | there are buffer overflows, possibly chip replacements, possible flaws in the algo implementations etc |
11:26:54 | scorche | even so, there are plenty of older unported targets and 6 years after the AJBR came out, they are still available on ebay |
11:27:12 | | Quit desowin ("use linux") |
11:27:22 | B4gder | indeed, and not all new targets do these strong protections either |
11:29:10 | B4gder | time to eat |
11:29:12 | crop | B4gder: that's the question. If the protection becomes part of the SDK then... |
11:30:32 | crop | scorche: what is AJBR? |
11:30:35 | scorche | crop: even if the unlikely possibility of all new targets being impossible to "crack" comes true, see my earlier statement |
11:30:42 | scorche | archos jukebox recorder |
11:31:16 | petur | also consider the possibility of having an open source player (hardware)... |
11:31:38 | crop | scorche: yes, but it's still a dying population. I'm not trying to put things down, I just want to understand what to be prepared for. |
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11:33:09 | scorche | even in a worst case scenario which is highly unlikely, you are looking over 10 years into the future |
11:33:26 | scorche | and even then, as petur mentioned, we can make our own |
11:36:42 | crop | petur: you mean a player with the chip docs and schematics publicly available? |
11:36:59 | petur | yes of course ;) |
11:37:24 | * | markun wispers blackfin |
11:37:28 | B4gder | haha |
11:37:32 | crop | Until recently, the first part was true |
11:38:04 | crop | So we have to persuade a manufacturer to open the schems |
11:38:12 | petur | B4gder: quick lunch today? |
11:38:52 | markun | B4gder: I would like to port rockbox to a player with that chip, but there aren't many options and very few owners |
11:38:54 | B4gder | haha, I interrupted... but I promise I'll leave in a minute ;*) |
11:38:56 | B4gder | I was |
11:39:17 | scorche | crop: there are plenty of open hardware designs out....it is expanding as well, just as open source is |
11:39:30 | scorche | really, this is a useless discussion imo.. |
11:39:50 | markun | scorche: why? |
11:40:08 | petur | we also need more companies that ask us to port rb to their players. Whate ever happened to that one guy in the forum? |
11:40:17 | * | markun isn't even sure which discussion is going on |
11:40:59 | B4gder | someone mentioned AMS' chip to Neuros since they said they wanted rockbox for it |
11:41:18 | B4gder | but that's not openly documented either |
11:41:24 | scorche | markun: basically, he wants to know what to "prepare himself for"....in otherwords he thinks (or came in thinking) that because of the zune and companies getting better at keeping us out, rockbox is approaching a dead end |
11:41:55 | petur | didn't austriancoder get info on a player from AMS? |
11:42:19 | B4gder | petur: but that doesn't differ much from how Neuros get info about the DM320 from TI |
11:42:20 | crop | scorche: yes, that was my reasoning. But I'll be glad to be proven wrong |
11:42:53 | scorche | crop: well, we just gave you a multitude of explanations why you are wrong... |
11:43:18 | crop | ..and hence now I'm happy :-) |
11:43:18 | * | petur remembers the forum post... http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3978.0 |
11:44:40 | scorche | petur: yeah...his absence has made me a bit sad...those devices fit my requirements for the next upgrade |
11:45:30 | LinusN | any rbutil ninjas here? |
11:45:40 | petur | yes, that Hi-X8 would fit my needs too |
11:45:55 | petur | LinusN: for? |
11:46:18 | LinusN | rbutil has an annoying habit of trying to automatically download the manual |
11:46:58 | petur | it now automatically detects if the user needs it :p |
11:47:03 | LinusN | but i need to use a proxy for that |
11:47:26 | LinusN | so it hangs for a long time before it times out with a dialog telling me that the download failed |
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11:47:46 | petur | sorry, know nothing about that |
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11:47:53 | scorche | petur: then again, the AV300 series fit it as well, which is why i wanted to port it, but sadly i have higher priorities atm =/ |
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12:39:26 | markun | did anyone read about the troubles with GPE and handhelds.org? |
12:39:43 | B4gder | nopes. url? |
12:40:12 | markun | One side of the story is on their homepage: http://www.handhelds.org/geeklog/index.php |
12:40:34 | markun | Some of the other side of the story can be found here: http://fl0rian.wordpress.com/2007/05/23/threatened-update/ |
12:41:15 | markun | quite interesting discussion about who owns a open source project |
12:42:52 | Llorean | I don't like the "they rename forks because we expect it of them." |
12:43:03 | Llorean | They aren't *required* to rename forks. |
12:43:10 | markun | Llorean: and which 'we' ... |
12:43:14 | Llorean | It's just a matter of politeness. |
12:43:36 | B4gder | no, forks are not required to rename |
12:43:50 | B4gder | and it would even be gpl incompatible to require so |
12:44:14 | B4gder | this is more of a traditional flame war where no side has the absolute right |
12:44:42 | B4gder | until they registered the trademark of course |
12:44:47 | B4gder | which makes it a trademark issue |
12:44:50 | Llorean | Yup |
12:45:15 | Llorean | The fact that he tried to remove the code from CVS though, could also fall under copyright issue since he tried to remove their ability to uphold their GPL obligations. |
12:45:44 | B4gder | well, I would guess he has another view on what and why he did |
12:45:51 | Llorean | Yeah |
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12:45:57 | markun | B4gder: you also removed the source code from the cvs server I guess? |
12:46:02 | Llorean | It's never as clear as either side presents it |
12:46:08 | markun | when it was moved to the subversion server |
12:46:28 | B4gder | well, technically of course cutting off the server access is a pretty major "delete" ;-) |
12:46:49 | markun | B4gder: and was rockbox in the past hosted at sourceforge? |
12:46:56 | B4gder | yes |
12:47:01 | markun | and later removed? |
12:47:09 | B4gder | sourceforge never removes anything |
12:47:15 | markun | ah, of course not :) |
12:47:20 | Zagor | it's still there, just very old |
12:47:25 | B4gder | to the extent that it is annoying |
12:47:47 | B4gder | that's one of the reasons why sourceforge is a collection of mostly dead or unborn projects |
12:47:59 | markun | indeed |
12:48:25 | markun | I hope rockbox never gets into this kind of trouble |
12:48:38 | markun | where 2 groups call themselves the 'real' rockbox |
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12:48:55 | B4gder | no, we should aim for at least 3 groups! ;-P |
12:49:15 | linuxstb | Has anyone ever looked into registering the Rockbox trademark? I assume it would be expensive to do it worldwide? |
12:49:38 | Llorean | It's assigned in some countries already, I believe. |
12:49:42 | Zagor | linuxstb: not only that, but we'd have to bully everyone to stop using it |
12:49:58 | Llorean | You can't hold a trademark and not enforce it, you lose it. So yeah, it'd become a hassle to keep. |
12:49:58 | B4gder | it'd probably be a fairly major undertaking |
12:50:32 | Llorean | Though given the -box suffix, I suspect there's plenty of "more ego-stroking" names should anyone choose to do a real fork. |
12:50:40 | linuxstb | I'm not thinking about stopping other people using the name, just taking pre-emptive measures in case anyone tried to stop us in the future. |
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12:53:17 | Zagor | linuxstb: yeah, but that's a difficult thing to do. if we hold the trademark and don't defend it always, we are not allowed to start defending it some time in the future. |
12:55:08 | Zagor | just witness the "fun" problems mozilla are getting themselves into with the firefox and thunderbird trademarks. debian is not allowed to distribute them... |
12:55:22 | GodEater | is that like saying we're happy to change our name if someone *does* register the trademark and then comes after us ? |
12:55:42 | Zagor | GodEater: no, trademark doesn't work like that. |
12:56:00 | Zagor | we have a widely used and established mark. it can't be simply hijacked. |
12:56:03 | B4gder | isn't the theory that Rockbox already is a trademark, just not registered |
12:56:10 | Zagor | B4gder: exactly |
12:56:26 | linuxstb | So what difference does registering it make/ |
12:56:27 | linuxstb | ? |
12:56:29 | scorche | firefox:iceweasel::rockbox:stonecrate? |
12:56:46 | Zagor | linuxstb: it's expensive and doesn't help us much |
12:57:10 | markun | scorche: I like stonecrate ;) |
12:57:18 | linuxstb | scorche: Or shitbag... |
12:57:21 | B4gder | registering makes it easier to go after others I guess |
12:57:45 | markun | linuxstb: that would spoil the whole surprise :) |
12:57:53 | scorche | linuxstb: now now...dont get testy =) |
12:58:23 | B4gder | my fork will be named roxbox |
12:58:37 | GodEater | calling ourselves "shitbag" does have the advantage that I suspect no-one else is ever likely to want to use it ;) |
12:58:50 | Zagor | B4gder: but we can only go after others if we do that from the start. and I sure don't want to start hassling people who are distributing their own builds that they can't say it's rockbox |
12:59:13 | B4gder | well, you can have a policy and accept certain uses |
12:59:22 | Zagor | true |
12:59:24 | B4gder | it's just that policy you need to enforce |
12:59:39 | scorche | so who has claim over Orpheus? =P |
12:59:44 | linuxstb | But would we want to? How far from SVN can an unofficial build be and still be called Rockbox? |
12:59:47 | Llorean | scorche: Sennheiser? :-P |
13:00 |
13:00:06 | B4gder | linuxstb: obviously apache, firefox, subversion etc all have such policies |
13:00:35 | B4gder | but I wouldn't want to do it |
13:00:35 | GodEater | until I read that article, I had no idea WebSphere was a fork from apache - certainly doesn't resemble it much these days |
13:00:36 | Zagor | I need to read up more about this |
13:00:42 | Llorean | On a topic semi-related to forks, stemming from the discussion about WPS gallery at DCW... |
13:00:48 | markun | GodEater: same here |
13:01:11 | scorche | Llorean: what about it?...i was planning on mailing redbreva tomorrow |
13:01:39 | Llorean | How would people feel if I added a statement saying that unsupported builds with threads in our forums should contain only non-rejected patches from the tracker, so it's more clear that they're about advancing Rockbox itself? |
13:02:01 | scorche | ah...that |
13:02:32 | B4gder | Llorean: I'm not sure that is a very good idea |
13:02:36 | safetydan_ | GodEater: that sounds wrong somehow. AFAIK WebSphere is written in Java and Apache in C... unless they're talking about tomcat. |
13:02:56 | linuxstb | Llorean: I'm not sure that makes sense - patches can be rejected but still useful. Most of the long-term patches (scroll margins etc) are technically rejected. |
13:03:06 | GodEater | safetydan: you know, you're right - I hadn't considered that |
13:03:09 | B4gder | 1) it makes custom builds that include a patch that suddenly gets rejecected suddenly become "illegal" to discuss |
13:03:20 | Llorean | linuxstb: I was thinking more about the pies julius patches that were never submitted, for example. |
13:03:21 | GodEater | he must mean tomcat |
13:03:32 | B4gder | 2) rejected patches can be brought back to life |
13:04:13 | Llorean | What I wanted to do was discourage the people who never submit their patches to the tracker at all. |
13:04:29 | B4gder | right, that's rather... unfriendly |
13:04:33 | Llorean | I know. |
13:04:36 | linuxstb | Llorean: I don't see the purpose of unofficial builds as "advancing Rockbox". I see them as fulfilling a desire by users to have features which we don't want in SVN, or have not yet been implemented well enough for SVN. |
13:04:47 | scorche | Llorean: i would just say patches that arent int he tracker.....not use the word rejected |
13:04:59 | safetydan_ | Llorean: I'd almost see that as their loss. If they don't submit it they have to maintain their fork. |
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13:05:42 | GodEater | yeah, I don't see the issue - we already don't support them |
13:05:44 | daurn | hi all |
13:05:55 | Llorean | GodEater: The thing is, we do to an extent. |
13:06:06 | Zagor | I would prefer we take the moral high ground and encourage patch submission but don't limit discussion |
13:06:13 | Llorean | Due to people not mentioning they're using them, or other people asking why their WPS doesn't look right. |
13:06:40 | Llorean | Zagor: I'm fine with that. |
13:06:41 | Zagor | then again I'm not in the forum much, so I'm unaware how much trouble this is causing |
13:06:43 | GodEater | Llorean: I don't consider telling someone "that feature only works in X's build" supporting them |
13:07:06 | Llorean | GodEater: I meant support as in "the threads that go for 2 pages before it's revealed they're using an unofficial build" |
13:07:28 | GodEater | Llorean: oh - I guess I've not seen too many of those |
13:07:55 | GodEater | Llorean: but I don't see how changing the policy of *which* patches go in helps that much :) |
13:07:59 | linuxstb | The only problem I have with the unofficial builds is that they confuse new users. What other software has so many slightly different versions available? |
13:08:14 | B4gder | linux |
13:08:14 | Zagor | linuxstb: linux :-) |
13:08:24 | linuxstb | Zagor: That proves my point ;) |
13:08:27 | Llorean | GodEater: I just kinda feel that having a forum section specifically for them is *kinda* an endorsement, in an odd sorta way. |
13:08:57 | Llorean | And it's next to impossible to maintain a list of what goes into or out of them, or check that they're GPL. |
13:10:05 | safetydan_ | Llorean: I'd rather see them discussed somewhere central rather than having to chase dozens of different forums though |
13:10:36 | B4gder | well, they are rather discussed elsewhere afaik |
13:10:45 | Llorean | They're very discussed elsewhere. |
13:10:45 | B4gder | the ones we host are only a rare few |
13:10:46 | Zagor | I agree with safetydan. the separate forum is to keep the unsupported threads concetrated instead of polluting "official" secions |
13:10:59 | Zagor | the purpose of* |
13:11:16 | Llorean | I believe a couple of the threads in our forums are little more than links to threads in other forums for those builds. |
13:11:47 | GodEater | wonder what they don't like about our forums that they feel they should do that |
13:11:56 | GodEater | there's not many forum features missing imho |
13:11:57 | B4gder | the sansa guys at anythingbutipod have I believe 4 or 5 different builds and discussions |
13:12:22 | B4gder | GodEater: I think it is just a matter of them considering themselves "at home" in the other forums |
13:12:43 | GodEater | I guess so - they know the crowd etc. |
13:12:57 | Zagor | that's the problem with forums in general - everybody wants their own |
13:13:31 | B4gder | yeps |
13:14:58 | * | amiconn doesn't ;) |
13:15:05 | B4gder | but that's also the general web approach since people want to get visitors to sell ads etc |
13:15:24 | Llorean | Oh, speaking of "sell ads" etc. |
13:15:57 | | Quit rift_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
13:15:59 | Llorean | If we're going to try to raise donations, we could add a simple forum badge for those who've donated, similar in line to what Misticriver does (though no added functions to go with it) |
13:16:14 | B4gder | indeed |
13:16:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
13:17:02 | B4gder | it would of course require that the donors tell their name and that zagor feeds it back |
13:17:03 | GodEater | Llorean: not even a VIP forum ? ;) |
13:17:31 | Llorean | GodEater: I could promise to yell at them a little less. :-P |
13:17:35 | GodEater | hahahaha |
13:17:37 | GodEater | lol |
13:17:49 | GodEater | *tears in eyes* |
13:18:20 | GodEater | sign me up right now |
13:18:43 | GodEater | I want my badge to say that in big letters "LLorean promised to yell at me less" |
13:18:44 | Llorean | I think you do more yelling than I do these days. :-P |
13:18:57 | GodEater | that's possible |
13:19:07 | GodEater | I'm trying to take more happy pills to curb it |
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13:33:10 | petur | re unofficial builds: I recall we talked about this on devcon and the idea was that unofficial builds also provide a testbed for some patches that may get included, so we wanted to keep them on our forum |
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13:39:24 | petur | http://www.samsung.com/presscenter/pressrelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070625_0000356219# |
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13:39:42 | petur | 1.8" 64GB flashdrive |
13:39:58 | LinusN | looks damn expensive :-) |
13:40:26 | B4gder | amen |
13:40:27 | petur | 32GB seems to sell for $529, I can only fear the worst ;) |
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13:49:22 | Cassandra | Hello al. |
13:49:24 | Cassandra | all. |
13:49:26 | * | B4gder waves |
13:49:45 | petur | hey |
13:49:49 | | Quit safetydan_ (Remote closed the connection) |
13:49:54 | LinusN | Cassandra: are you a wxwindows ninja? |
13:49:58 | Cassandra | Anyone know the current codec count for Rockbox. And whether Ogg was the second codec we implemented or not. |
13:50:01 | LinusN | wxwidgets |
13:50:10 | Cassandra | Sure. If you like. |
13:50:58 | LinusN | the silly wxHtmlWindow widget can't use a proxy |
13:51:15 | Cassandra | That is silly. |
13:51:16 | LinusN | or can it? |
13:51:33 | LinusN | so the current rbutil.exe stalls when you start it |
13:51:43 | Cassandra | Why are you using it rather than the API that just launches your browser? |
13:51:46 | LinusN | because it tries to download the html manual |
13:52:05 | markun | Cassandra: I would have to check the commit logs to see which codecs were first |
13:52:18 | LinusN | i don't know why rbutil does that, i just tried rbutil and the stalling annoyed me |
13:52:20 | Cassandra | markun: don't worry it's not important. |
13:52:27 | LinusN | so i started looking in the code |
13:52:33 | linuxstb | Cassandra: Checking "svn log" in apps/codecs shows the order was libmad, liba52, libFLAC then Tremor, then wavpack |
13:52:37 | Cassandra | Linus: Yeah. I was going to strip that out today. |
13:52:45 | Cassandra | However, other stuff came up. |
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13:53:08 | Cassandra | linuxstb, so ogg was quite a latecomer then? |
13:53:15 | LinusN | either we start the browser, or we use DownloadURL() and LoadFile() instead |
13:53:22 | Llorean | And currently we have wav, aiff, adx, mp3, vorbis, aac, flac, wavpack, mpc, alac, ape, nsf, spc, sid, and sorta midi? 15? Plus whatever I missed? |
13:53:23 | markun | Cassandra: I think it was all close together |
13:53:24 | B4gder | Cassandra: liba52 was the second... |
13:53:29 | Llorean | AC3 |
13:53:42 | B4gder | http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/codecs/?pathrev=5970 |
13:53:43 | linuxstb | markun: They were - all in a couple of days |
13:53:50 | scorche | soon to be gbc added to the mix |
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13:54:10 | Luca84 | hello everybody! :) |
13:54:12 | B4gder | then flac, then tremor |
13:54:19 | markun | hi Luca84 |
13:54:27 | * | linuxstb refers B4gder to the answer he gave a few moments ago |
13:54:32 | markun | :) |
13:54:47 | B4gder | I know, but I check the exact details! |
13:54:52 | B4gder | ;-) |
13:55:06 | Luca84 | I just wanted to tell to everyone that contributed to rockbox a big thank you! my sansa is even better now ;) |
13:55:06 | B4gder | that svn guy keep a careful log of things |
13:55:26 | LinusN | Luca84: you're welcome |
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13:55:49 | Luca84 | I wanted to ask a simple question, though... is it possible to write plugins for rockbox in C++? |
13:56:02 | dionoea | no. C only. |
13:56:04 | markun | B4gder: he copied most of that info from that cvs guy I think :) |
13:56:21 | linuxstb | Luca84: In theory I'm sure you can, but there is no infrastructure in the build system for it. |
13:56:33 | B4gder | markun: :-) |
13:57:17 | dionoea | linuxstb: wouldn't that need stuff like dynamic memory allocation too ? |
13:57:34 | Luca84 | isn't malloc available in rockbox? |
13:57:37 | B4gder | yeps, c++ kind of implies that |
13:57:54 | scorche | Luca84: no...we statically allocate things here |
13:58:10 | Cassandra | LinusN, in answer to your question. I think we discussed this at Devcon. The manual doesn't belong in rbutil, and I'll remove the browser the moment I get some round tuits. |
13:58:10 | dionoea | Luca84: it isn't. (except for a few plugins which have their own simple implementation) |
13:58:42 | Luca84 | oh! uhm... well, that kinda defeats the point heh :) |
13:58:54 | scorche | Cassandra: well, have you see our (DCW's) summary about RButil? |
13:58:55 | B4gder | defeats what point? |
13:59:02 | Luca84 | of using C++, that is |
13:59:04 | Llorean | Cassandra: Is it going to be replaced with just having RBUtil launch the browser to the manual? |
13:59:22 | Cassandra | Llorean, yes. |
13:59:22 | B4gder | Luca84: well, C++ is just C with some extra goo on it, just cut off the goo and use C ;-) |
13:59:33 | Cassandra | scorche, no. Where is it? |
13:59:36 | LinusN | Cassandra: ah, i remember now |
13:59:36 | dionoea | s/some/lots of/ :) |
13:59:37 | Llorean | Cassandra: Okay, just making sure. The statement "the manual doesn't belong in RBUtil" frightened me a little bit. ;) |
13:59:53 | scorche | Cassandra: wiki page DevConWest2007 |
14:00 |
14:01:17 | Luca84 | B4gder ;) |
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14:01:39 | * | GodEater wonders if Llorean forgot speex too |
14:01:45 | Cassandra | Llorean, sorry. Shorthand. The aim is to keep rbutil as lightweight as possible. If a web browser will do a better job of something, then we'll keep that in the web browser. |
14:01:45 | Luca84 | well, I'll do a little bit of research :) I was planning a simple calendar-like plugin |
14:01:46 | Llorean | B4gder: The goo's a lot harder to cut off if you started with C++, it can be hard to see where it ends. ;) |
14:01:54 | Llorean | GodEater: I did. So, 17? |
14:02:00 | B4gder | I guess so |
14:02:10 | Cassandra | But links to appropriate info are still appropriate. |
14:02:12 | B4gder | I never got friends with C++ so for me the goo is all big and red |
14:02:20 | Luca84 | sorry, lunchtime here... see you soon guys! :) |
14:02:29 | GodEater | the problem with the goo in C++ is it kept changing for ages |
14:02:31 | Llorean | Cassandra: That's kinda what we felt. It should do everything that's required for Rockbox to be usable (including video conversion) but where possible act as a front end to something else. |
14:02:32 | Luca84 | and greetings from Italy! |
14:02:46 | | Quit Luca84 ("Ciao a Tutti!!! >(SkakkiSkript v6.04)<") |
14:02:52 | Llorean | Cassandra: But never go beyond 'necessary to use the features', such as becoming music management, etc. |
14:03:09 | Cassandra | No. |
14:03:32 | Cassandra | The furthest I'd go is possibly database generation for the slower platforms. |
14:04:07 | Llorean | We felt that since we mandate a specific video format, and a specific font format, etc, a "known good" method of creating them could be provided. |
14:04:09 | pixelma | Llorean: the wps tag gives you 19 possibilities in the enum (18 different codecs, including mp1, mp2 - and 1 "unknown") |
14:04:13 | Cassandra | Anyone know who implemented Ogg for Rockbox? |
14:04:36 | B4gder | dave? |
14:04:41 | GodEater | what you putting together Cassandra ? |
14:04:42 | markun | I imported the source |
14:04:51 | markun | and dave made a codec out of it |
14:05:03 | Cassandra | Just some answers for someone writing a PhD on Ogg Vorbis. |
14:05:04 | Llorean | pixelma: Does it include Well, if we add MP1 and MP2 to what I listed, that's 19 without "Unknown." Did I add one too many somewhere? |
14:05:06 | Cassandra | Nothing exciting. |
14:05:18 | Llorean | Err, ignore the first 3 words. |
14:05:34 | * | Cassandra decides to go with "over 15". |
14:05:45 | markun | Cassandra: I wonder if it's the same thing I answererd :) |
14:05:58 | Cassandra | markun, could be. The one to press @ rockbox. |
14:05:59 | pixelma | Llorean: midi isn't a codec yet |
14:06:00 | Cassandra | ? |
14:06:23 | Llorean | pixelma: Ah, right, I counted midi. |
14:06:52 | markun | Zagor: oops, I see I replied the email to you and not Wolfram.. |
14:07:51 | Zagor | haha |
14:08:11 | markun | forwarded it to him |
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14:12:57 | amiconn | Cassandra: I don't think database creation on archos is so slow that an external tool would make sense |
14:13:28 | amiconn | And I'd rather like separate tools for separate tasks than one all-in-one monster |
14:15:20 | Cassandra | amiconn: I have no immediate plans to implement it. |
14:15:43 | Cassandra | My current Rockbox time seems to be so limited as to be a joke anyway. |
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14:32:57 | Cassandra | Interesting read re rbutil. |
14:33:21 | | Quit billytwowilly (Remote closed the connection) |
14:33:26 | Cassandra | (The DevconWest stuff.) |
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14:34:23 | Llorean | The general feel was that if a special tool was *necessary* to use a feature, RBUtil should either provide that tool (compiled in bdfcon) or front end for it (for example, via ffmpeg) |
14:35:52 | amiconn | Hmm, strange |
14:36:18 | amiconn | I usually prefer separate tools. |
14:36:30 | Llorean | RBUtil is already quite the opposite of separate tools though |
14:36:34 | amiconn | But we should probably provide those tools in binary form |
14:36:45 | scorche | amiconn: well, we were pretty much saying that if xxx was to be included, we would like it doen xxx way |
14:37:34 | Llorean | I mean, we have a separate fwpatcher (or equivalent) for most targets, and installing the build is as simple as unzipping. Meanwhile RBUtil already handles "extras" like Doom and Themes |
14:37:54 | Llorean | So that could be extended to Fonts (since the tools are in SVN already, or at least one of them is), and Videos (only serving as a front end to encoder of choice) |
14:38:24 | scorche | basically, everything to get your files ready for rockbox |
14:38:44 | Llorean | Well, when changes are mandatory to use those files. |
14:38:50 | scorche | aye |
14:39:33 | Llorean | But it was more or less a "we wouldn't object if someone wanted to do that with it, we WOULD object if it tried to become a music management tool, or really go beyond anything that's strictly Rockbox focused" |
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14:40:58 | amiconn | I am looking at rbutil as an installation tool |
14:41:32 | Llorean | And "Doom" and "Themes" are just aspects of installation? |
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14:42:06 | Llorean | I think if themes are installation, then to an extent, fonts (and then font conversion) could be too. |
14:43:00 | Llorean | I think mpegplayer conversion doesn't qualify as installation, but having one "known good" conversion method does make it easier to support, and easier for the end user to use. |
14:43:14 | Cassandra | It can be different things to different people, certainly. |
14:43:20 | amiconn | I am in no way against a known good method |
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14:43:34 | Llorean | amiconn: I personally wouldn't object to a stand alone "known good" video converter. |
14:43:37 | amiconn | But imho it doesn't belong into rbutil |
14:43:57 | Llorean | But we were thinking that RBUtil could simply call the converter, rather than including it. |
14:44:17 | Cassandra | I suppose my question would be "if the standalone tool is available, what's the harm in putting a front end for it in rbutil?" |
14:44:32 | Llorean | Cassandra: What's the harm, or what's the benefit? |
14:44:37 | Llorean | I see no harm in putting a front end in. |
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14:45:09 | scorche | and neither did the rest of DCW ;) |
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14:45:17 | linuxstb | Llorean: Feature bloat... |
14:45:44 | Llorean | linuxstb: That's why we tried to discuss where the line should be. |
14:45:56 | Llorean | There definitely should be a line somewhere, it's just a matter of opinion as to where it is. |
14:46:02 | scorche | linuxstb: that was brought up, but we thought that as long as the line stood at related to just rockbox, it was in the clear |
14:46:05 | Cassandra | Quite. |
14:46:23 | Cassandra | I don't particularly like the prominence Doom has at the moment. |
14:46:29 | Cassandra | For me, that's a frippery. |
14:46:40 | scorche | i dont think any of the devs do... |
14:46:55 | daurn | do we know anything about the iriver s10? |
14:46:56 | Cassandra | I have some thoughts on how to fix this. |
14:47:13 | scorche | daurn: search the wiki |
14:47:16 | Llorean | Cassandra: Remove it? |
14:47:25 | Cassandra | They may also be suitable for dealing with bloat - we may be able to arrange for transcoders etc. to be downloaded on demand. |
14:47:36 | Cassandra | Llorean: Nope. Simple packaging. |
14:47:52 | Cassandra | Most of the infrastructure to support it is already avaialble within rbutil. |
14:48:36 | daurn | scorche: nothing |
14:48:48 | Cassandra | And frankly I have less problem with it among several optional extras. |
14:48:58 | Llorean | daurn: There's a "thread" on the forums, that just says basically "It'd be really neat if there was a port for it" |
14:49:05 | daurn | Llorean: i saw |
14:49:14 | daurn | and only one response - from markun |
14:49:26 | Llorean | Cassandra: Ah, just prominence of positioning? An "extras" page in the installer? |
14:50:48 | markun | daurn: didn't we find a website with a 'naked' s10? |
14:51:11 | markun | showing a samsung ARM (surprise surprise) |
14:51:32 | daurn | markun: i remember you saying something about samsung in it |
14:51:35 | daurn | no picture... |
14:51:59 | markun | I didn't find a picture. Let me google again. |
14:52:29 | JdGordon | anyone know how to use vlc here? |
14:53:41 | markun | daurn: http://www.iriverfans.com/news_detail.asp?ArticleID=888 |
14:53:49 | daurn | JdGordon: I use it |
14:53:58 | markun | JdGordon: will you start a wiki? |
14:54:04 | daurn | http://www.themp3players.com/archives/2006/10/whats-inside-iriver-s10/ |
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14:54:40 | JdGordon | markun: a wiki for..? |
14:54:50 | markun | JdGordon: the iriver S10 |
14:55:21 | markun | JdGordon: something like http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverE10Info |
14:55:45 | JdGordon | markun: buy me a s10 and i will :p |
14:56:06 | markun | ah, oops, the question was for daurn ;) |
14:56:14 | JdGordon | thought so :) |
14:57:30 | brandon | can i use ipodpatcher.exe to upload files to my ipod since windows says my drive needs to be formattted. also i used itunes 7 to restore but after it finishes restoring it asks me to resotre again and a again... so yeah.. |
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14:58:21 | markun | daurn: and there is a firmware update for you to play with http://nyaochi.sakura.ne.jp/iriverupdate/ |
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14:58:35 | markun | several |
14:59:30 | daurn | well, I just read some reviews |
14:59:35 | daurn | and the UI isn't that good |
14:59:45 | daurn | but, the player I think could be something awesome |
15:00 |
15:00:03 | linuxstb | brandon: No, ipodpatcher just modifies the firmware partition on your ipod, not the main firmware that stores your files. |
15:00:53 | linuxstb | ^I mean the main partition... |
15:01:08 | brandon | okay, is there sonething i can do... i tried to format the fat32 partition so that windows would recognize it but i have problems keeping the formware intact or the format is unsuccesful. |
15:02:03 | brandon | i used ipodpatcher.exe to upload rockbox.ipod and it worked using "ipodpatcher.exe -wf rockbox.ipod" in cmd |
15:02:40 | GodEater | brandon: which document did you follow which told you to do that ? |
15:03:08 | brandon | none... |
15:03:19 | Llorean | It's not simply updloading a file, either, you're writing it into the firmware partition instead of having the apple firmware there. |
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15:03:36 | Llorean | And it still doesn't touch the 'data' partition where you keep music |
15:03:38 | GodEater | brandon: did you not want the apple firmware at all anymore then ? |
15:03:40 | brandon | i tried following the directions but i cant upload files to my ipod without formatting it as a usb flash drive |
15:04:02 | brandon | i dont really care for it @ GodEater which ever way makes it work |
15:04:46 | GodEater | brandon: I only ask as most people only write the bootloader with ipodpatcher - you've written the rockbox firmware straight into the apple firmware partition doing that |
15:05:09 | Llorean | brandon: If after restoring with iTunes your iPod still says it needs restored, that's something you need to contact Apple about |
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15:05:18 | brandon | yeah, i know. i actually read the documentation for ipodpatcher |
15:06:00 | GodEater | well as Llorean says, if after you've used iTunes to restore it it's still not working, then you need to take it to Apple |
15:06:22 | brandon | alrighty then |
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15:07:48 | markun | nice overview of chips used in various mp3 players: http://forum.mp3store.pl/index.php?s=ab5297e780a0d52f7fe65ad838b60f83&showtopic=14695 |
15:08:02 | * | GodEater wonders if we have many users that use the -wf option with ipodpatcher |
15:08:24 | Zagor | yay, polish! |
15:08:40 | GodEater | yay |
15:08:57 | Llorean | GodEater: I intend to use it as soon as we have a native USB mode |
15:09:03 | markun | does anyone here speak polish? |
15:09:10 | B4gder | nice overview indeed |
15:09:28 | daurn | markun: do you happen to know what lang is what? |
15:09:53 | GodEater | Llorean: even though it makes updating slightly more onerous ? |
15:09:58 | markun | daurn: what lang is what? |
15:09:58 | daurn | there is: kor (korean); jap (japanese); est (???) and lat (????) |
15:10:10 | daurn | markun: on that iriver firmware page |
15:10:11 | markun | estonian latvian? |
15:10:24 | daurn | so.... which is english? |
15:10:27 | GodEater | that would be my guess |
15:10:31 | Zagor | neither |
15:10:33 | GodEater | daurn: none of the above :) |
15:10:49 | Llorean | GodEater: So I type "unzip rockbox.zip -d /media/gigabeat&&ipodpatcher -wf /media/gigabeat/.rockbox/rockbox.ipod" |
15:11:01 | Llorean | Or better yet make a small command to do it for me. :-P |
15:11:07 | GodEater | hahaha - to your gigabeat mount ;) |
15:11:08 | GodEater | nice |
15:11:14 | Llorean | Or ipod rather |
15:11:18 | Llorean | I've been using my gigabeat so often |
15:11:20 | GodEater | I suspected you meant that |
15:11:20 | markun | daurn: I've read it somewhere. Let me google a bit. |
15:11:39 | Llorean | But yeah, if I'm typing anyway, a couple dozen extra characters is nothing. |
15:11:57 | GodEater | I assume you still use the OF for disk access then, rather than disk mode ? |
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15:12:23 | Llorean | Yup |
15:12:28 | daurn | oh well lol |
15:12:31 | daurn | I guessed the url |
15:12:32 | daurn | http://www.iriverplus.com/update/firmware/s10/eng/S10.HEX |
15:12:33 | linuxstb | markun: Nice link - no blackfin DAPs listed though... |
15:12:37 | daurn | there is a file there :P |
15:12:38 | * | GodEater hasn't noticed a real performance difference between the two |
15:12:43 | Llorean | GodEater: Do you have a Nano? |
15:12:46 | GodEater | nope |
15:12:49 | markun | daurn: :) |
15:12:50 | GodEater | which I why I suspect ;) |
15:12:53 | Llorean | Yeah |
15:13:06 | GodEater | so roll on usb support |
15:13:09 | B4gder | it amazes me people do so much work and post it... in a FORUM |
15:13:11 | Llorean | Just extracting a fullzip to it gives me enough time to prepare and eat lunch under windows. |
15:13:14 | markun | linuxstb: would probably have been a very short list |
15:13:29 | GodEater | Llorean: wow - that's slower than I imagined |
15:13:43 | markun | linuxstb: maybe something to copy in a wiki page |
15:13:57 | Llorean | GodEater: If I recall it could be around 7 and a half minutes for a full zip with fonts. |
15:14:00 | GodEater | it's completely academic of course, but I wonder if disk mode on the 2nd Gen Nano is that bad? |
15:14:01 | markun | and link to the variour pages (which are now sometimes orphans probably) |
15:14:07 | daurn | ok |
15:14:17 | daurn | I have NO idea how to read/decode that firmwarew |
15:14:25 | GodEater | Llorean: you eat lunch fast :) |
15:14:33 | Llorean | B4gder: I don't think I'll ever understand the desire to document things in the forum. I think it's the positive feedback of "writing a post so good it got stickied" |
15:14:44 | Llorean | GodEater: A sandwich and a glass of juice, often. |
15:14:47 | markun | daurn: the older firmwares can be decoder with the ifp decrypter, but I don't think that works on the S10 one |
15:14:47 | B4gder | daurn: one could start trying out the existing iriver hex encodings, or variations of them |
15:14:53 | GodEater | does twiki have a page rank system ? |
15:15:03 | linuxstb | markun: Yes, I've been thinking about such a wiki page for a while. Along with comments about what is known about running third-party code. |
15:15:30 | B4gder | mi4code can also decrypt the iriver h10 hex format |
15:15:54 | linuxstb | Has anyone else here looked at the Telechips firmwares ? They all seem to be unencrypted, but have some kind of checksum or signature in the header. |
15:16:18 | B4gder | I'm not aware of any real telechip effort |
15:16:19 | markun | B4gder: but the h10 is portalplayer based, I don't think they used it for the samsung players (but we could try) |
15:16:21 | linuxstb | (there are two 32-bit numbers in the header which seem to vary in every different firmware) |
15:16:29 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
15:16:52 | B4gder | markun: I know, I was just thinking that if you get all the iriver hex decrypters and compare then you have some input to try on the new hex encodings |
15:17:52 | markun | daurn: I see that I already tried to decrypt the S10 firmware with the ifp decrypter, but that didn't work |
15:20:01 | markun | daurn: wait, it did work.. |
15:20:08 | daurn | o.o |
15:20:35 | markun | http://130.89.160.166/rockbox/S10.BIN |
15:20:59 | markun | strings like "WMA Windows Media(tm) Audio" |
15:22:12 | B4gder | that's the decoded version? |
15:22:21 | linuxstb | markun: and "C++ library exception".... |
15:23:03 | markun | B4gder: yes |
15:23:11 | markun | the .HEX file is encrypted |
15:23:30 | B4gder | there were so few ascii texts |
15:23:45 | Cassandra | Lorean: Exactly. I'm sure there are people that would find it useful. Just not many. |
15:24:23 | markun | B4gder: maybe the rest is dectypted in memory or something? |
15:24:30 | | Join bluebrother [0] (i=wS9sAtAB@rockbox/staff/bluebrother) |
15:24:38 | markun | or unpacked |
15:25:18 | markun | or our tool doesn't work correctly |
15:25:37 | B4gder | unicode adds a few more |
15:25:48 | B4gder | strings -eb |
15:26:49 | B4gder | "License.drm" ;-) |
15:27:35 | markun | didn't know that option |
15:28:23 | B4gder | what I find interesting with -eb is that b is for big-endian I believe |
15:28:44 | B4gder | -el is what I usually use to get the strings |
15:29:09 | markun | what do you think melon.bin could be.. |
15:30:12 | Llorean | Fresh fruit? |
15:30:19 | markun | korean names can be strange, like the "lucky goldstar" company (LG) |
15:30:24 | B4gder | impossible to guess without more research |
15:31:04 | B4gder | they support quite a few languages |
15:31:17 | B4gder | at least they feature many language names |
15:31:22 | markun | yes, a lot |
15:31:23 | B4gder | I don't see any strings for them |
15:31:30 | markun | maybe just very few options |
15:32:43 | Llorean | Is there any reason strings have to be "strings" rather than images, though? |
15:32:53 | B4gder | no |
15:32:53 | GodEater | only for space reasons |
15:33:25 | B4gder | modern firmwares tend to use images a lot |
15:33:34 | GodEater | eye candy |
15:33:40 | B4gder | yeps |
15:33:58 | Llorean | Clearly our language files should be giant bitmaps to compete. |
15:34:44 | GodEater | I think I need to learn more internet speak. PM I just got on the forums : "help plxx yoggi34" |
15:34:48 | markun | B4gder: do you recognize any ARM or Thumb assembler? |
15:35:02 | | Join SirFunk_ [0] (n=Sir@admin-147-222.potsdam.edu) |
15:35:11 | B4gder | didn't check, moved back to do some real work... |
15:35:12 | markun | GodEater: perfectly normal question :) |
15:35:27 | GodEater | markun: I must be dim ;) |
15:36:24 | linuxstb | markun: That S10 firmware seems to be big-endian arm... |
15:36:40 | linuxstb | Same as the T30 IIRC |
15:37:01 | GodEater | Llorean: you beat me... |
15:37:32 | | Join lape [0] (i=laperyx@dsl-129-170.aei.ca) |
15:37:32 | | Quit SirFunk_ (Remote closed the connection) |
15:37:38 | * | GodEater tries to work who "yelled" most ;) |
15:37:40 | linuxstb | markun: The exception vectors seem to be at 0x1f4 |
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15:37:49 | markun | linuxstb: nice find |
15:38:12 | markun | daurn: looks like we are almost there ;) |
15:38:21 | daurn | ha |
15:38:21 | linuxstb | Bagder's find of big-endian unicode made me think about trying -EB with objdump |
15:38:30 | daurn | Maybe iriver shall get some of my hard earned |
15:38:55 | Llorean | GodEater: You beat me to the [Bug Report] post though |
15:39:02 | linuxstb | markun: Can you reencrypt the S10 firmware? |
15:39:15 | lape | hi, is it possible that rockbox needs a lot more power than the default ipod 30Gb soft? |
15:39:18 | markun | linuxstb: yes, I think so |
15:39:21 | GodEater | Llorean: I typed less than you though :) |
15:39:32 | linuxstb | markun: This was my objdump command - arm-elf-objdump -EB -D -b binary -m arm S10.BIN |
15:39:58 | markun | thanks, that worked here too |
15:40:03 | linuxstb | lape: It's not just possible, it's a known fact. |
15:40:42 | markun | lape: unfortunately.. |
15:40:46 | lape | ok...cuz, ipod soft: 15 hours playtime, rockck box: less than 10 hours |
15:41:38 | Llorean | GodEater: At least he asked for help in the open, then only PMed you after you gave him some attention. About 20% of my received PMs have been 0-posters who want a direct route to help. |
15:41:54 | GodEater | Llorean: I ignore those and delete them |
15:41:57 | GodEater | I get 'em too :) |
15:42:09 | * | GodEater is a big ol' meany pants |
15:42:36 | Llorean | I figured they probably sent them to a good half dozen people who they thought might be able to help, rather than typing it once and waiting. |
15:42:53 | GodEater | there's an easy fix Llorean |
15:42:57 | GodEater | alter your post count ;) |
15:43:17 | GodEater | make it about 2 |
15:43:30 | Cassandra | And change your badge to "Rockbox newb" |
15:43:35 | GodEater | hahahaha |
15:43:57 | * | JdGordon got very rude at the last 0 poster asking for help |
15:44:14 | markun | linuxstb: let me first find out how I decrypted it in the first place.. |
15:44:22 | JdGordon | nice to see im not the only one getting them |
15:44:26 | GodEater | I start to appreciate how Linus (Torvalds) got so bitter :) |
15:44:30 | Llorean | I'm pretty sure I didn't award myself the 'expert' badge, for the very hope that maybe new users at least would assume I'm just a forum admin, and clueless beyond taht |
15:44:54 | Llorean | Though it did spur one argument when someone told me... was it "shut up stupid admin" or something? |
15:44:55 | Llorean | Hm. |
15:44:55 | linuxstb | Can you ban pms from 0 posters? |
15:45:08 | GodEater | Llorean: yep |
15:45:12 | GodEater | remember him well |
15:45:12 | Cassandra | Some BBs certainly allow that. |
15:45:15 | Llorean | linuxstb: I can. |
15:45:24 | daurn | and if anyone asks, it was to prevent spam attacks ;) |
15:45:28 | Llorean | Very easily, since 0-posters are already in a separate member group |
15:45:56 | linuxstb | Life would be easy if you stopped 0-posters doing anything... ;) |
15:46:07 | Cassandra | Especially posting. |
15:46:09 | petur | including posting? |
15:46:11 | GodEater | I think you've basically got an invisible experts badge by answering so many questions though Llorean |
15:46:12 | petur | hahaha |
15:46:15 | GodEater | whether it's actually there or not |
15:47:22 | Llorean | Hm, actually I don't think I *can* disable PMs for a group |
15:47:27 | * | Llorean tinkers |
15:47:37 | * | GodEater waits for the forums to disappear in smoke |
15:47:53 | * | B4gder prepares to blame twiki ;-) |
15:48:02 | markun | linuxstb: I can't figure out how I did the encryption :( |
15:48:03 | Llorean | Oh, wait, there it is. |
15:48:08 | Cassandra | No, no. Blame DRM. |
15:48:13 | Cassandra | Or solar flares. |
15:48:17 | GodEater | it's probably Steve Jobs fault |
15:48:19 | Cassandra | Or hippy flares. |
15:48:25 | Llorean | GodEater: They'll disappear in smoke when I get daring and try to upgrade to SMF 1.1 |
15:48:35 | GodEater | Llorean: yay! can't wait! |
15:48:36 | Cassandra | Oh, that last is covered by Steve Jobs anyway, right? |
15:48:45 | Llorean | GodEater: Were you around last time I broke them horribly? |
15:48:47 | GodEater | I think he covers pretty much everything |
15:48:56 | GodEater | Llorean: I don't recall. Probably not :) |
15:49:44 | daurn | for posterity's sake, here are iriver s10 internals: |
15:49:44 | daurn | http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iriverfans.com%2FPlayer_detail.asp%3FArticleID%3D888%26ArticlePage%3D2 |
15:49:44 | Cassandra | Have you tried lubricating them with jam. |
15:49:44 | Cassandra | I find that usually helps. |
15:49:45 | Cassandra | Also for broken MP3 players. |
15:49:45 | Llorean | GodEater: It was just a themeing thing, though. The rockbox modifications were made to one of the builtin themes, resulting in them being overwritten on update. |
15:49:52 | GodEater | oops |
15:50:13 | Llorean | I didn't know this, having not checked all the details I should've. |
15:50:20 | GodEater | Llorean: next time of course you'll sandbox a copy of them first :) |
15:51:12 | Llorean | Next time there will be a lot of safety precautions. Though since I had to redo a lot of the changes anyway, I *think* they're done a more friendly way to updates this time |
15:53:07 | Llorean | Can anyone think of a valid reason for someone with zero posts to need to make use of the personal message function? |
15:53:41 | GodEater | nope |
15:53:51 | petur | it's forbidden in many places |
15:54:22 | GodEater | the only valid use I can think of is if their account appears to have got broken in some way during their signup |
15:54:29 | GodEater | in which case, they can email someone instead |
15:54:35 | petur | iirc, on MR you have to have 10+ posts before you can PM |
15:54:35 | GodEater | or make a new account |
15:54:48 | petur | in case of troubles, they can always come here |
15:54:49 | linuxstb | Or if they register in order to contact someone else who is registered. |
15:54:55 | GodEater | tbh, I can't think of a decent use of PM on our forums at all |
15:55:34 | linuxstb | Llorean: Can you customise the error message that's displayed? Or do 0-posters never see any PM links? |
15:55:43 | Llorean | linuxstb: No PM links |
15:56:17 | linuxstb | I guess if someone has a valid reason, they can complain somewhere (e.g. here, the mailing lists etc) |
15:56:22 | Llorean | Yeah. |
15:56:29 | Llorean | PMs are now disabled for 0 posters. |
15:56:37 | linuxstb | Or post a forum message to complain... |
15:56:38 | GodEater | hurray |
15:56:39 | Llorean | I'll bring 'em back if there are complaints. |
15:56:48 | Llorean | And consider it an anti-spam measure. |
15:56:56 | Llorean | Since the whole 0-post group is an anti-spam measure. |
15:57:23 | GodEater | Llorean: do we use CAPTCHAs in the sign up process? It's been so long I don't recall... |
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15:59:00 | Llorean | GodEater: I believe there's a basic one. |
16:00 |
16:00:09 | Llorean | I haven't seen spam on our forums in a long time, though. I don't know if it's just happening when I'm not looking, or if it's cleared up after that one bad period. |
16:00:18 | | Quit lape () |
16:00:28 | GodEater | I must admit, I've not seen anyway |
16:00:35 | GodEater | s/anyway/any |
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16:01:20 | | Join crop [0] (i=c27f0812@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-c207a5937d7cfc5a) |
16:01:31 | crop | He-he. Nice commit comment: "Same as FS# 7342 but different" :-)) |
16:03:29 | | Quit crop (Client Quit) |
16:04:02 | GodEater | he popped into just to say that ? |
16:04:11 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
16:05:38 | Cassandra | I guess so. |
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16:07:02 | Cassandra | I once needed to do it on MR (send a PM without having posted) - can't remember why though. |
16:09:04 | JdGordon | yeah, as annoying as it is, we shouldnt disable pm's for 0 posters |
16:11:08 | daurn | bed! |
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17:00 |
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17:16:32 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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17:27:46 | webguest64 | hey you guys putting my gigabeat s60 on ebay like whoever said (sorry i forgot) was a great i dea. it sold in like 4 hours. for 195usd |
17:28:31 | | Part webguest64 |
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17:32:16 | petur | another rockbox convert? |
17:33:18 | | Join webguest53 [0] (i=5649873d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7f86d8c421a32ada) |
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17:36:54 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
17:40:00 | markun | hi jhMikeS, I wonder why those other devices weren't disabled already |
17:40:09 | markun | (refering to your commit) |
17:40:44 | jhMikeS | I don't know ... you tell me :) |
17:41:27 | markun | will you measure the new current later today? |
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17:42:57 | markun | btw, can the pull-up settings have a big effect on the power consumption? |
17:43:04 | jhMikeS | sure. I'm trying to use the hardware i2c interface too but I'm sticking at the splash. |
17:43:08 | | Join TTSbox [0] (n=OzgurOzt@aksu.cse.ohio-state.edu) |
17:43:23 | markun | hi TTSbox! |
17:43:29 | TTSbox | HI Markun |
17:43:31 | TTSbox | :) |
17:43:45 | markun | did you get any futher with your plugin? |
17:43:59 | jhMikeS | pull-up settings? refering to the GPIO? |
17:44:02 | TTSbox | today I will have plenty time |
17:44:17 | markun | jhMikeS: yes, I know nothing about it, so perhaps I'm asking stupid questions :) |
17:44:29 | TTSbox | I will go over other plugins |
17:44:46 | markun | TTSbox: yes, that's the best way to lean how to do it I think |
17:44:51 | jhMikeS | perhaps, if there's pullup resistor already on a port it wouldn't make sense to use it |
17:46:42 | petur | I assume that unknown IO pins are configured as input? |
17:47:51 | markun | petur: no, we leave most of them as they are set by the OF bootloader |
17:47:53 | jhMikeS | I would they'd be trisstated |
17:48:18 | markun | petur: there are still some unknowns: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatPortPins |
17:48:19 | jhMikeS | would hope |
17:50:22 | petur | does the cpu have a setting to tri-state io pins? most I know have input/output/special funtion |
17:51:29 | petur | and setting to input activates a weak pull-up which would be the most harmless state unless the pin has to be driven low for a certain functionality |
17:52:46 | jhMikeS | I think they do |
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17:57:48 | jhMikeS | markun: if I did my maths right then Mpll = 294.9408MHz and Upll = 47.9808 MHz? sound right? |
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18:00 |
18:00:48 | konam | hi, i have an issue with the themes |
18:01:42 | konam | ie. with every theme i use the hour look bad, i mean, it says the HOUR:X (X is the first letter of the day) |
18:01:59 | konam | is like the screen is a smaller than the them display or something alike |
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18:06:43 | patrakov | is it possible to show hidden directories in rockbox file brwser? |
18:06:43 | konam | no one knows how to fix this? |
18:07:05 | n1s | patrakov: set "show files" to "all" |
18:07:27 | patrakov | let me try... |
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18:09:00 | patrakov | it worked, thanks |
18:11:20 | markun | jhMikeS: I have to check |
18:16:51 | markun | isn't it 296.345 and 49.391? |
18:18:48 | jhMikeS | I based it off the settings from the bootloader (dumping the appropriate regs) |
18:18:54 | | Quit petur ("work->home") |
18:19:25 | Llorean | konam: Bugs in themes are pretty much the responsibility of the author of the theme. |
18:20:02 | konam | Llorean but it is happening to me with every them while in the screenshots of those doesn't seem to have this problems |
18:20:13 | jhMikeS | MPLLCON: 000C9042 UPLLCON: 003c042 CLKDIVN: 0000007 |
18:20:19 | Llorean | konam: Does it happen with the official themes? |
18:21:18 | markun | jhMikeS: sorry, you are right |
18:21:19 | konam | i haven't look at it but i will |
18:21:45 | jhMikeS | ok, so my DAP isn't weird then :) |
18:27:19 | | Quit Domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
18:27:32 | jhMikeS | so with all that MCLK = 294.9408, HCLK = 98.3136 and PCLK = 49.1568 ?? |
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18:28:18 | jhMikeS | s/MCLK/FCLK/ |
18:28:19 | markun | jhMikeS: yes |
18:29:36 | * | jhMikeS wonders why the need to use a non-recommended PLL setting |
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18:29:49 | konam | the rockbox firmware play videos? |
18:30:03 | markun | jhMikeS: do we? |
18:30:16 | konam | support videos?* |
18:30:49 | jhMikeS | it's just what's left from the OF setup. I don't see any setting any PLL related registers. |
18:31:04 | Llorean | konam: See the mpeg player section of the manual. |
18:32:17 | markun | jhMikeS: I never noticed that we didn't use the recommended 296.35MHz |
18:32:23 | markun | shall wel just set it to that? |
18:33:15 | konam | Llorean in which section it is? |
18:33:34 | jhMikeS | I don't know. Maybe it'll work but toshiba obviously doesn't. |
18:34:02 | | Join Juice^ [0] (n=Juice@213.167.96.196) |
18:34:04 | markun | jhMikeS: when we get rid of the OF bootloader we will set it ourselves anyway |
18:34:17 | Juice^ | hi |
18:34:19 | konam | i've download it, i was reading the online version |
18:34:25 | markun | hi Juice^ |
18:34:27 | | Quit Nico_P (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
18:34:39 | Llorean | konam: Plugins I believe. Seriously, you're supposed to search the manual before asking. |
18:34:53 | Juice^ | any ideas why im getting data abort at 01FBCD0C when running doom? (when pressing play) |
18:35:03 | jhMikeS | I think frequency scaling is a fancier procedure than what's in set_cpu_frequency. You have to switch to slow mode and wait for relock too. |
18:35:20 | Llorean | Juice^: What player? |
18:35:30 | Juice^ | Llorean: sansa e200 |
18:35:41 | Llorean | What SVN revision and bootloader version? |
18:36:22 | | Quit obo ("KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/") |
18:36:23 | markun | jhMikeS: ah, you should only change it in slow mode? |
18:36:31 | markun | which page are you looking at? |
18:37:40 | jhMikeS | wait, maybe not. what's that mean on P 7-7? |
18:38:10 | Juice^ | Llorean: svn from today and bootloader is perhaps from a week ago |
18:38:49 | Llorean | Juice^: And these are both the official versions? Your build is from the rockbox page, and your bootloader from sansapatcher.exe? |
18:39:00 | Juice^ | Llorean: correct |
18:39:26 | markun | jhMikeS: I always read it as 'you can just change the frequency and don't have to worry about anything' ;) |
18:39:34 | Llorean | Juice^: Were you using any addons? |
18:39:43 | Juice^ | Llorean: nope |
18:39:45 | markun | probably because that is what I wanted to read :) |
18:39:54 | * | Domonoky_ detects rbutil talk in the logs.. |
18:40:11 | markun | jhMikeS: you are talking about "Change PLL Settings In Normal Operation Mode" right? |
18:40:13 | Llorean | Juice^: No clue then, nobody else has filed a bug report about such a thing. |
18:40:23 | Juice^ | Llorean: ok.. strange |
18:40:24 | jhMikeS | but other frequecies will change and divers must be reset |
18:40:30 | jhMikeS | markun: yes |
18:41:09 | markun | jhMikeS: I guess it would be safer to go to slow mode (diabling the pll) |
18:41:34 | jhMikeS | yes, then those other clocks are based off CLKSLOW and should be glitch-free, no? |
18:41:55 | markun | I'm not sure what HCLK and PCLK are based on in that case |
18:42:16 | | Part patrakov |
18:42:32 | markun | ah yes, they are based on the slow clock |
18:42:54 | markun | 16.9344MHz |
18:43:13 | jhMikeS | I wonder if not matching the CPU perfectly to the crystal may be responsible for the occasional channel swap |
18:43:59 | Domonoky_ | Llorean: do you think audioscrobbler support is too much for rbutil, or is it still in the scope ?? |
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18:44:45 | Llorean | Domonoky_: Does Rockbox create the log in a "standard" format, or one custom to our software? |
18:44:46 | jhMikeS | matching the IIS to the audio codec clock rather |
18:45:11 | jhMikeS | or is that always taken from the crystal itself? |
18:45:40 | Domonoky_ | Llorean: the log matches the description on the audioscrobbler website, and there are tools for this (and a lib which i would use) |
18:46:14 | Domonoky_ | Llorean: so i think rockbox creates a standard log, ( only the timeless log is different, no time of course) |
18:46:25 | * | jhMikeS now remembers it is set to be from the crystal :P |
18:47:19 | Llorean | Domonoky_: I don't know how others will feel about it. Is there a standard, cross-platform stand alone utility for it? Something that RBUtil could simply call, if present, rather than incorporating the code into itself? |
18:47:42 | markun | jhMikeS: do you plan to try 400MHz sometime? |
18:48:05 | markun | (399.65) |
18:48:16 | Domonoky_ | there is qtscrob which is qt and should be multiplattform.. |
18:48:16 | Llorean | Part of the idea was to keep RBUtil small, where possible, so that it's not this giant bloated thing for people who only want to use it for the minimum set (install, remove, update) |
18:48:34 | Domonoky_ | from the same guy as i could use the libScrobbler .. |
18:48:40 | Llorean | So, where possible we thought it'd be best to have it call another tool, though I think the scrobbler log is probably fairly minimal? |
18:49:18 | jhMikeS | makun: I'll try it at some point and see what happens |
18:49:42 | Domonoky_ | Llorean: the problem with calling other tools which are not compiled into rockbox is depencies.. |
18:50:03 | markun | jhMikeS: be careful :) |
18:50:15 | Domonoky_ | Llorean: using the scrobblerlib is not much code, but you need of course a ui to support it.. |
18:50:38 | markun | jhMikeS: and will you try 200MHz to see if we can save any power that way? |
18:50:56 | markun | I don't think that toffe found a difference |
18:51:04 | Siltaar | Hello, is anyone potentially interested in iPod nano 2G port ? |
18:51:17 | Llorean | Domonoky_: I really don't see any reason not to incorporate it personally, I think it's for larger things (for example, video conversion) |
18:51:18 | jhMikeS | sure, why not |
18:51:18 | markun | Siltaar: sure |
18:51:37 | markun | Siltaar: did you figure something out? |
18:52:13 | Siltaar | and... whom should potentially be the more efficient in doing this ? |
18:52:30 | jhMikeS | is the code that's in SVN the scaling code that was used for the tests? |
18:52:35 | Domonoky_ | Llorean: sure for video conversion you would only build an Ui and call an installed converter.. but for most litte things, i think they should be compiled in.. |
18:52:59 | Siltaar | I "potentially" have a unit to provide |
18:53:02 | Domonoky_ | or they could be downloaded when need, (complicated) :-) |
18:53:16 | markun | jhMikeS: yes, look at the logs, there are a few things we tried: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/target/arm/s3c2440/gigabeat-fx/system-meg-fx.c?view=log&pathrev=13711 |
18:53:19 | Llorean | Domonoky_: I don't think there's a clear line, but yeah, there's a line somewhere where "small" ends, I imagine the scrobbler lib is still "small" though |
18:53:47 | markun | Siltaar: I thought you were going to do it :) |
18:54:25 | Siltaar | I """potentially""" could try things |
18:54:31 | Domonoky_ | Llorean: it depends how you define "small", small code ? or small binary size.. |
18:54:40 | Siltaar | but have no particular electronic skills |
18:55:31 | Llorean | Domonoky_: Well, since the UI for a front end is going to have to be included in RBUtil whether it's a front end, or the functional code is compiled in, I think "amount the binary download increases by compiling it in vs offering it as a separate download" |
18:55:35 | Domonoky_ | Llorean: the problem i have with the libScrobbler is, that it needs libCurl, and i dont know if it is possible to compile it statically to rbutil.. :-) |
18:56:08 | Llorean | Domonoky_: If you have questions to ask about what you can do with libCurl, I bet there's a few Rockbox devs with some knowledge about it. |
18:56:08 | Domonoky_ | Llorean: we nearly doubled binary size with the new nice buttons :-) |
18:56:40 | | Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
18:56:46 | Llorean | If the main program is twice as big now, other additions add half the % binary increase. ;) |
18:56:52 | Llorean | Relative to what they did before, at least. |
18:57:37 | Domonoky_ | if someone complains its to big, we will make a version without images.. *hehe* |
18:57:55 | Siltaar | I would be interested in trying to "dump" things in a 1st time, but, if someone skilled is known to be slowed in his work by a lack of testing unit... I could try to help that way... |
19:00 |
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19:01:59 | n1s | Siltaar: I don't think anyone is actively working on it... |
19:06:28 | amiconn | I think the issue with the nano G2 is similar to the wma issue |
19:09:06 | Siltaar | which means that it's better for us not to succeed ? |
19:09:42 | Llorean | Which means that most of the people with the appropriate skills are more interested in other things. |
19:09:53 | amiconn | yes |
19:10:36 | amiconn | The nano g2 isn't that interesting a target imho |
19:10:52 | Domonoky_ | ah the "people that are clever enough to port to nanog2 are clever enough to not choose it" thing :-) |
19:11:05 | Domonoky_ | s/choose/buy/ |
19:11:11 | amiconn | Sure, it would be nice to see it running there, because more targets are always good |
19:11:12 | n1s | amiconn: do you think there's any point in committing a asm-optimized strlen for coldfire? (it's about 20% faster than the c version but calling the function 100000 times with a string that's 57 chars long takes only ~1 second... |
19:11:42 | amiconn | n1s: Not sure, also depends on how large it is compared to the C version |
19:12:07 | amiconn | strlen() isn't used _that_ much, but e.g. the .lng loader uses it on every single string |
19:12:46 | amiconn | On SH, the asm optimised version is almost 4x as fast as the C version, because it uses a special instruction gcc doesn't use |
19:12:49 | amiconn | (cmp/str) |
19:13:04 | n1s | amiconn: it is very simple, just two lines of inline assembly in a c function, do you think a .S file with pure assembly is better for rockbox- svn to be consistent with the SH version? |
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19:15:40 | andrewg867 | I have captured that weird random audio issue I have |
19:16:12 | andrewg867 | please excuse the weird music, I was going throught the random/bass test folder ;) http://205.251.141.103/sansa-i2sbus.ogg |
19:16:36 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
19:17:10 | andrewg867 | that time it seem to have fixed its self by going forward a couple more songs |
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19:31:35 | The-Compiler | hi there |
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19:37:49 | floola | Hi, I'm floola's dev (floola.com">http://www.floola.com). If there are devs connected I'd like to ask a couple of questions about rockbox's db structure. |
19:39:01 | thegeek | try the mailing list |
19:39:14 | konam | i was seeing a video and when i close it the ipod freeze, now all i got is a black screen |
19:39:15 | Domonoky_ | floola: i think Slasheri is the db guy here, but other could also know somethink.. just ask your question or try mailinglist.. |
19:39:55 | floola | konam: using floola? |
19:40:09 | floola | I'll try the mailing list. |
19:40:12 | Siltaar | Domonoky_, I agree your point of view about Nanos, and I didn't bought one... But steel, destiny have put one into my hands... |
19:40:28 | floola | konam: ignore. |
19:40:35 | floola | thanks guys. cy |
19:40:44 | Domonoky_ | konam: just reboot your device.. |
19:41:28 | konam | Domonoky_ im trying, is an ipod nano |
19:41:44 | konam | but is just freeze |
19:42:04 | Domonoky_ | konam: hold selec+menu i think for ~ 30 secs.. |
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19:43:13 | konam | thanks dude, i didn't knew that |
19:43:28 | Domonoky_ | thats "reset" on ipods :-) |
19:46:14 | amiconn | Hmm, I have a minesweeper ui consistency question |
19:46:55 | amiconn | Both on Iriver and Iaudio, the center button (Select) is 'discover', and a separate button (Play) is 'flag' |
19:47:29 | amiconn | However, on the recorder it's the opposite: center button (Play) is 'flag', and a separate button (On) is 'discover' |
19:47:41 | mirak | hi |
19:47:46 | mirak | can rockbox play aac files ? |
19:47:53 | mirak | with extentions .m4a |
19:48:08 | bluebrother | yes, if they're unencrypted |
19:48:19 | mirak | I can play them on totem |
19:48:25 | mirak | it should be ok then |
19:48:28 | amiconn | I would like to swap buttons for the recorder because 'discover' is needed more often, but then the recorder button mapping is the oldest one, so the change might confuse long-term users |
19:49:25 | Llorean | amiconn: I believe in windows minesweeper (as well as at least some others I've played), "click" is discover, and an alternate flags. |
19:49:44 | Llorean | So it sounds to me like the Recorder key map is... I guess, unexpected. |
19:50:07 | amiconn | Yes, that's what I think as well |
19:50:18 | amiconn | And it confuses multi-target rockboxers like me ;) |
19:52:47 | | Quit _Veseliq_ ("www.ModReactor.com www.ModReactor.com www.ModReactor.com www.ModReactor.com www.ModReactor.com") |
19:53:37 | amiconn | So I'll change it... |
19:58:56 | linuxstb | mirak: Rockbox's AAC codec has one limitation - the m4a files need to be "streamable". This means that all the metadata (mainly the seektable) is at the start of the file. So if it doesn't work in Rockbox, that may be the cause. |
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19:59:34 | mirak | linuxstb: I did not tried yet |
19:59:37 | * | mirak is hiding |
20:00 |
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20:01:19 | | Part Llorean |
20:04:01 | * | amiconn spots mirak behind his corner and asks about the coldfire mpegplayer patch |
20:05:17 | mirak | amiconn: um um |
20:05:36 | mirak | amiconn: have you tried to use it ? |
20:08:37 | Juice^ | where is these new icons for rockbox used?' |
20:09:54 | mirak | ok this aac files works |
20:10:04 | mirak | amiconn: I can't do more than what I did |
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20:10:30 | mirak | that version was working |
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20:20:05 | amiconn | mirak: Yes it was, but it contains lots of unused stuff that needs to be cleaned up before svn inclusion |
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20:28:30 | mirak | amiconn: well function inside #define ___SOMETHING have no chance to be processed, they are here just for performance tests, you can drop them. |
20:28:44 | mirak | that's pretty obvious :o |
20:28:49 | mirak | ;-) |
20:29:34 | mirak | amiconn: there is only 3 functions unused and they are not preprocessed at all |
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20:43:48 | mud-rockbox | the stuff in firmware/include/*.h is okay for plugins, right? i'm getting all kinds of linker errors when i use it...is there some makefile trickery i need? |
20:45:10 | amiconn | No it's not |
20:45:18 | Domonoky_ | mud-rockbox: in plugins you should only use the plugin.h |
20:45:19 | mud-rockbox | oh, that would do it... |
20:45:26 | Domonoky_ | and maybe the pluginlib.. |
20:45:42 | amiconn | plugins can only include plugin.h and stuff in or below apps/plugins/ |
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20:46:49 | linuxstb | mud-rockbox: What do you need from those .h files? |
20:46:50 | mud-rockbox | what exactly does the PLUGIN_HEADER do? do i need to put that in every .c file, or only in the main one per plugin? |
20:47:17 | mud-rockbox | well, i'm currently using a ton of stuff from them, but i probably don't need much of it |
20:48:39 | linuxstb | Most ofl the standard C functions (string.h etc) are available via the plugin API. |
20:48:45 | mud-rockbox | it looks like almost everything i need is in the rb-> stuff anyway, i just think about it... |
20:48:53 | mud-rockbox | didn't think about it* |
20:49:05 | markun | mud-rockbox: what are you working on? |
20:49:25 | mud-rockbox | trying to port the sgf parser from gnugo |
20:49:58 | markun | ah, it's you :) |
20:50:05 | mud-rockbox | haha yep :) |
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20:55:22 | GodEater_ | linuxstb: do you have any ideas for the mpeg player question in the forums (Plugins) |
20:55:24 | GodEater_ | ? |
20:55:40 | GodEater_ | I can't think what would have worked in a Feb. build of mpeg player that wouldn't work now... |
20:56:27 | | Quit ompaul (Broken pipe) |
20:56:32 | linuxstb | GodEater: The poster isn't making much sense... |
20:56:38 | GodEater_ | I realise that ;) |
20:57:03 | GodEater_ | he's clearly an idiot for attempting to update mpeg player on it's own first of all |
20:57:07 | GodEater_ | but I already told him off for that |
20:57:11 | linuxstb | I don't recognise the "format not supported" message |
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20:57:29 | GodEater_ | ah - so he's probably not even giving us the right error message |
20:57:54 | linuxstb | grep isn't finding it either... |
20:58:29 | * | amiconn wonders what would be a convenient mpeg video transcoder for windows |
20:59:05 | markun | amiconn: don't worry about it, a DAP is not for video playback anyway :) |
20:59:05 | | Nick darkless__ is now known as darkless (n=darkless@62.79.44.48.adsl.vby.tiscali.dk) |
20:59:26 | amiconn | No it's not, but then we do have video playback... |
20:59:36 | markun | but you are never going to use it.. |
20:59:51 | markun | or did you change your mind? |
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20:59:56 | GodEater_ | anyone recommend a good util for windows which can report on an mpegs video and audio codecs ? |
20:59:57 | amiconn | No and no |
21:00 |
21:00:08 | linuxstb | GodEater: GSpot |
21:00:18 | GodEater_ | linuxstb: thank you |
21:00:19 | linuxstb | (so I've heard...) |
21:00:23 | pixelma | markun: he has the LotR movies as rvf :P |
21:00:34 | markun | ;) |
21:01:22 | markun | just for testing of course :) |
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21:01:51 | amiconn | I won't use video regularly for sure. If I'd want that, I'd get a PMP |
21:02:36 | amiconn | But as we do have video playback, it can be used for showing off rockbox, or watching music video clips occasionally |
21:02:49 | amiconn | And then I hate it if we have a half-working feature |
21:02:58 | amiconn | (like mpeg playback on coldfire) |
21:03:29 | amiconn | Either it should be left out, or made working properly |
21:03:40 | * | linuxstb wonders if anyone stores a music video in an MP3 id3v2 tag... |
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21:03:56 | Llorean | linuxstb: It would not surprise me at all if someone did. |
21:04:03 | amiconn | Me neither |
21:04:34 | amiconn | ...having seen a tag with the embedded jpeg pictures being larger than the track itself... |
21:05:00 | mud-rockbox | linuxstb: i had a file that did so, but that was before i retagged my collection |
21:05:06 | GodEater_ | linuxstb: looks good to me |
21:05:14 | GodEater_ | even "she" can use it :) |
21:05:20 | markun | does JTAG have less debuging capabilities compared to BDM? |
21:06:44 | GodEater_ | Llorean: is it possible to change the keyboard shortcuts that our forums use ? |
21:07:01 | Llorean | I didn't even know they had keyboard shortcuts. |
21:07:14 | GodEater_ | Alt+s to save a post |
21:07:21 | GodEater_ | which sadly is "history" in firefox |
21:07:23 | GodEater_ | so doesn't work |
21:07:28 | GodEater_ | does in IE though |
21:07:51 | GodEater_ | I think Alt+P is preview |
21:07:56 | GodEater_ | which I don't use |
21:08:35 | | Quit darkless_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
21:08:49 | GodEater_ | I wouldn't mind so much, but the "Tab" order for the controls on the post entry form are screwed up, and you can't tab from the text entry field to the "Post" button easily |
21:08:53 | Llorean | GodEater_: As far as I've ever seen, there's no way to configure them through the admin panels. |
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21:09:05 | GodEater_ | Llorean: bugger. Oh well. Just thought I'd ask. |
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21:51:28 | gh_ | hi, hi |
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21:57:08 | gh_ | is there a problem with the current build of rockbox for H120 ? i can't read any music, and all the viewers say "incompatible version" |
21:57:16 | | Join HellDragon [0] (n=JD@unaffiliated/helldragon) |
21:58:12 | Domonoky_ | gh_: you somehow didnt update the complete .rockbox dir.. |
21:58:15 | n1s | amiconn: I can pastebin my strlen function if you would like to take a look. An interesting note is that it's slightly slower if I put it in iram... |
21:58:19 | mud-rockbox | i've only ever gotten 'incompatible version' when i tried to only upgrade part of a build, or the copying failed |
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21:58:44 | gh_ | Domonoky_, each time, i remove te .roxkbox directory and unzip the zip file at the root of the filesystem of my player |
21:58:53 | gh_ | should i do something else ? |
21:58:56 | linuxstb | Do you have a rockbox.iriver in the root? |
21:59:26 | gh_ | yes |
21:59:33 | Domonoky_ | remove it :-) |
21:59:40 | linuxstb | Then delete it. You may also have to upgrade to a newer bootloader. |
21:59:47 | gh_ | ok |
22:00 |
22:00:02 | gh_ | is the new version in the zip file of the daily builds ? |
22:00:39 | Domonoky_ | gh_: yes, it has been moved into the .rockbox dir |
22:00:47 | gh_ | oh ok |
22:00:50 | gh_ | is it quite recent ? |
22:01:04 | Domonoky_ | gh_: i mean the rockbox.iriver file.. |
22:01:06 | gh_ | i hadn't updated my version for a few months |
22:01:10 | gh_ | yes |
22:01:21 | gh_ | i got that :) |
22:01:37 | Domonoky_ | if it is a few months.. its a long time in rockbox time :-) |
22:01:59 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@pD9EB3C49.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
22:02:06 | DerPapst | Hi. I'Ve installed rockbox on my toaster. Music n stuff is cool but now my toasts taste like a bag of shit. Anyway i can use the OF for toasting or is there no way to dualboot? |
22:02:21 | petur | rofl |
22:02:21 | Domonoky_ | DerPapst: lol |
22:02:43 | DerPapst | :P |
22:02:58 | Domonoky_ | thats rockbox taste: bag of shit :-) |
22:03:34 | * | petur congratulates DerPapst on making it in the credits file |
22:03:43 | DerPapst | thanks :) |
22:04:03 | DerPapst | amiconn: thank you for commiting my 2 patches :-D |
22:04:04 | gh_ | Domonoky_, now that i've removed the rockbox.iriver file, my H120 is booting on the officiel firmware |
22:04:21 | Domonoky_ | gh: update your bootloader.. |
22:04:29 | gh_ | oops sorry |
22:06:07 | GodEater_ | I think that belongs in GoldenQuotes actually |
22:07:32 | alienbiker99 | i started to learn c yay =D |
22:08:18 | GodEater_ | printf("Congratulations!\n"); |
22:08:42 | alienbiker99 | hah |
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22:31:24 | gh_ | Domonoky_, thank you, it works perfectly now |
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22:32:43 | gh_ | is the mpeg player supposed to work on iHP-120 N |
22:32:44 | gh_ | ? |
22:33:14 | DerPapst | only the manual knows for sure.... |
22:34:12 | gh_ | the manual doesn't mention that model |
22:35:39 | petur | wiki says it does |
22:35:46 | petur | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer |
22:36:41 | petur | but it's not mentioned in any perf table... |
22:37:00 | Febs | Are the manual builds broken? The html version is dated June 15 and the pdf version is dated June 21. |
22:37:26 | Bagder | they were broken, should be fine tomorrow again |
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22:38:18 | DerPapst | is the iHP-120 the iriver H120? |
22:38:23 | alienbiker99 | yes |
22:38:24 | Bagder | yes |
22:38:34 | DerPapst | what does the P stand for? |
22:38:36 | Bagder | iHP being the earlier prefix for their models |
22:38:48 | DerPapst | aha |
22:38:54 | alienbiker99 | they changed it because they were gonna get sued by HP |
22:38:54 | mirak | amiconn: there is notthing more to do for idct patch than removing the code where #defines are clearly not reachables |
22:39:06 | mirak | amiconn: like ___SOMETHING |
22:39:16 | DerPapst | well the i wouldn't want to watch videos on it :P |
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22:39:45 | amiconn | mirak: Well, now there is. IRAM usage needs to be balanced between video decoding and libmad |
22:39:46 | * | DerPapst has watched some videos on his 3G iPod and it was anything but fun |
22:40:01 | alienbiker99 | i need to fix my battery in my H320 |
22:40:14 | amiconn | And iirc there are some possibilities for further optimisation in the asm parts, but that requires gathering them together first |
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22:45:35 | mirak | amiconn: actually the idct patch uses just 128 bytes of iram. this ones are absolutely necessary. The rest is not, but of course it won't hurt. |
22:46:17 | mud-rockbox | does DEBUGF do something on real platforms, or does it get defined out? |
22:46:26 | mirak | amiconn: I can explain to you some parts. There are some weird things that I did for the purpose of using register as much as possible instead of accessing iram or ram |
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22:48:14 | mirak | amiconn: as you can see in the code there is the C version with matrix multiplication that match the asm one. the original C version is not implemented, it's one with a matrix multiplication too, but it's mathematically optimised to have as few multiplications as possible, some smart guys certainly doctors in sciences made it ^^. |
22:49:47 | mirak | amiconn: anyway the idct algorithm is made so one block is processed in one shot, with the algorithm not giving back the end. I think it's better to do it that way, multithread would probably kill performances, |
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22:52:53 | linuxstb | mirak: How does your new C version compare (in terms of speed) with the old one? |
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22:54:00 | webguest36 | The metronome plugin freezes the H140 on a build from a couple days ago...has that been fixed? |
22:54:38 | petur | try it |
22:55:05 | markun | I didn't see any metronome commits |
22:55:14 | markun | webguest36: do you know which commit broke it? |
22:55:42 | webguest36 | not sure, i was using a bleeding edge build from 2 days ago AFAIK |
22:55:45 | mirak | linuxstb: the "new" C version is the unoptimised matrix multiciplation |
22:56:07 | mirak | linuxstb: there is the paper describin the IDCT done with matrix in the wiki on the mpegplayer page |
22:56:26 | pixelma | jhMikeS: didn't see your commit - will get some points now, too ;/ |
22:56:29 | linuxstb | mirak: Yes. I'm just asking if it's faster or slower than the existing C version. |
22:56:33 | mirak | linuxstb: so it's slower. But easier to understand. |
22:56:33 | | Quit webguest36 (Client Quit) |
22:56:41 | linuxstb | mirak: Ah, OK. |
22:56:53 | markun | mirak: and easier to optimize? |
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22:57:23 | mirak | markun: well the optimised version cannot profit of emac operations. |
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22:57:46 | mirak | markun: with emac sse altivec mmx and stuff it's more productive to go brute force |
22:57:56 | mirak | with a simple algorithm |
22:58:07 | | Nick Cleon is now known as sirnick72793 (n=chatzill@ool-4573a1d8.dyn.optonline.net) |
22:58:41 | sirnick72793 | Hey, will rockbox function using Mac OS X? |
22:58:51 | mirak | the C optimised version of idct used 8 mutiplication and 10 additions, or something like that. but you can't use emac efficiently. |
22:59:21 | Bagder | sirnick72793: yes |
22:59:48 | mirak | I think I did the optimised version in C, but it wasn't working, I think. I did not continued |
23:00 |
23:00:03 | sirnick72793 | Great. Can you give me the link to the download place? |
23:00:07 | mirak | I mean I did the optimised C version in asm |
23:00:08 | jhMikeS | pixelma: They'll be taken back immediately afterword :) |
23:00:22 | sirnick72793 | Also, will it work on 2nd Gen Nanos? |
23:00:23 | Bagder | sirnick72793: tried rockbox.org? |
23:00:28 | Bagder | no |
23:01:13 | mirak | markun: if the gigabeat doesn't have an emac or sse like, I think it's better to implement the optimised C version. That's the original one in libmpeg2 |
23:01:29 | | Quit HellDragon ("reboot") |
23:01:37 | * | pixelma hands jhMikeS 530 points :P |
23:01:42 | mirak | markun: I mean implement the optimised C version in asm |
23:01:59 | jhMikeS | gigabeat has dsp instructions and also profits greatly from careful avoidance of memory stalls |
23:02:28 | mirak | markun: by the way I am back, I didn't had interent for one month. I though I was going to be nut ... |
23:02:30 | markun | jhMikeS: are those instructions also available on the ARM9? |
23:02:34 | markun | eh, ARM7 |
23:02:38 | jhMikeS | yes |
23:02:50 | jhMikeS | they're used already in the eq and such |
23:02:52 | markun | mirak: yes, can be hard :) |
23:03:56 | mirak | by the way I gave up extracting mpeg2 codec from ffmpeg, as you probably not noticed it ^^. I think they got to clean there shity code first. Then we will be able to get something out of it. I don't where they are now |
23:05:23 | jhMikeS | what's the point in changing video decoders? |
23:06:10 | | Join HellDragon [0] (i=JD@unaffiliated/helldragon) |
23:06:48 | markun | jhMikeS: if we find something with better compression with the same speed or the same compression with more speed |
23:08:11 | | Quit GodEater (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
23:11:32 | markun | jhMikeS: and there are some problems with the limited framerate choices in the mpeg2 standard I believe |
23:12:02 | jhMikeS | markun: the standard or the decoder implementation? |
23:13:02 | markun | I think the encoders are mostly the problem |
23:13:08 | markun | linuxstb: right? |
23:14:36 | amiconn | jhMikeS: Strange thing... |
23:14:37 | jhMikeS | but the decoder really isn't responsible for the framerate, the player is |
23:15:02 | amiconn | current_tick has not been volatile for years, causing no problems... |
23:15:27 | | Join darkless_ [0] (n=darkless@62.79.44.48.adsl.vby.tiscali.dk) |
23:15:51 | jhMikeS | depends on the usage really |
23:16:39 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
23:17:09 | jhMikeS | a simple loop like while(TIME_BEFORE(current_tick, tick)); can just lock unless it is (which of course it shouldn't) |
23:17:53 | amiconn | Such loops are common... |
23:18:14 | jhMikeS | it did it to me today, perhaps only the ARM compiler does it |
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23:21:04 | jhMikeS | mostly I see them for failure checking so if it's ... && !(cond)); and the condition far and away succeeds you'll probably rarely see it |
23:21:49 | linuxstb | markun: Yes, the framerate in an MPEG-1/2 video stream is limited in the standard to one of a pre-defined list. This list has been unofficially extended with some framerates below 24fps, but IIRC, there's nothing between 15fps and 24fps - which is where most of our targets fall... |
23:22:42 | linuxstb | And some encoders refuse to encode at the unofficial rates. |
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23:30:51 | apcfreak | Hey guys. Yesterday, I downloaded Rockbox, installed it correctly on my Sansa E250, and it was working great until just a minute ago. I was playing a song, and then went back to the main menu, and a it turned into a white screen with 'Data abort at 00050EE4' at the top. I cant turn it off with the menu button. Any help? |
23:31:24 | | Quit darkless (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
23:31:26 | mud-rockbox | hold power for around 15 seconds and it should shut off |
23:31:49 | apcfreak | ok, thanks. that worked |
23:32:10 | mud-rockbox | yeah, not sure about that error message, but that almost always lets you try again at least |
23:32:28 | apcfreak | Now it is working fine. Thanks! |
23:34:48 | * | DerPapst thinks there should be something like a BSOD for rockbox too.. on colour targets it should be an OSOD though. |
23:35:02 | petur | LBSOD |
23:35:27 | pixelma | BOSSOD |
23:35:31 | | Quit apcfreak ("HAHA I found out how to have a QUIT message NUCCAS!") |
23:35:49 | petur | ? |
23:36:08 | pixelma | Bag... do I have to say more? ;) |
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23:36:21 | petur | arglhmpf... :) |
23:36:25 | DerPapst | hehe |
23:36:25 | saratoga | maybe we could make the crash screen strobe various colors |
23:36:42 | * | jhMikeS was just gonna say this is the second BOS petur didn't step in :) |
23:36:50 | scorche | haha |
23:36:53 | DerPapst | or soe random noise like a tv with no signal :P |
23:37:13 | scorche | i should get a gdb up where we can put stuff like this that doesnt belong in goldenquotes... |
23:37:41 | scorche | s/gdb/qdb |
23:37:53 | DerPapst | still not sure what LBSOD is though... |
23:38:03 | saratoga | light blue screen of death? |
23:38:13 | DerPapst | err.. |
23:38:25 | * | DerPapst goes into his corner |
23:38:57 | * | scorche passed DerPapst a bag to put over his head |
23:39:12 | DerPapst | thanks |
23:39:19 | * | DerPapst puts bag on |
23:39:24 | | Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
23:39:26 | scorche | would you prefer a blanket, or will the bag do? |
23:39:32 | saratoga | so my current WMA troubles are that the asf parser seems to give bad data when run on targets (sim works fine though) |
23:39:45 | saratoga | i'm pretty sure malloc is working, and i don't get any crashes |
23:40:01 | saratoga | what else can i check before I dive into the ASF parser? |
23:40:21 | saratoga | (presently I have no idea how it works and was hoping to keep it that way) |
23:40:48 | Bagder | saratoga: build a logf() build and sprinkle your code with some calls to it |
23:41:00 | Bagder | to verify data in/out being right |
23:41:18 | saratoga | i was afraid you were going to suggest something to do with reading asf.c |
23:41:25 | Bagder | haha |
23:41:32 | Bagder | now that's #2 |
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23:42:02 | * | petur wonders if DerPapst checked if there was anything in the bag |
23:42:10 | DerPapst | hahaha |
23:42:11 | saratoga | i guess the thing to do would be to figure out where its actually touching the disk api, and then just log all that crap on the sim and the target |
23:42:12 | linuxstb | saratoga: #3 - throw ffpeg's asf parser away and write a new one |
23:42:33 | saratoga | linuxstb: honestly, I think I could write a new wma decoder faster then a new asf parser |
23:42:55 | saratoga | they're of comparable size, and the wma deocder actually makes some sense (and has comments!) |
23:42:55 | linuxstb | You don't have to write it from scratch - libasf might be better. |
23:45:32 | saratoga | libasf does look interesting |
23:45:39 | saratoga | that'd be a good plan b if I don't figure this out soon |
23:45:59 | saratoga | still, i wonder what the difference is between running on x86 and arm |
23:46:21 | linuxstb | At the very least, we need a minimal asf parser for the get_metadata() function... |
23:46:22 | Bagder | struct padding/alignment? |
23:46:27 | saratoga | i'd expect ffmpeg to be pretty platform agnostic anyway, it does run on PPC, etc |
23:46:37 | linuxstb | And ARM afaik |
23:47:09 | saratoga | does arm have more restrictions on how stuff is aligned then x86? |
23:47:32 | linuxstb | Yes, everything must be aligned to it's own size (1, 2 or 4 bytes) |
23:48:30 | petur | wouldn't that give data aborts? |
23:48:31 | saratoga | thats certainly something to look for then |
23:48:52 | linuxstb | petur: No, it would mean the compiler pads the structs |
23:49:04 | linuxstb | But I would expect ffmpeg code to take account of that |
23:49:13 | saratoga | oh no |
23:49:27 | saratoga | so you mean the sizeof stuff i do on x86 might not be the same as on ARM? |
23:49:40 | linuxstb | Yes ;) |
23:50:09 | saratoga | well, that gives me about 10 new places to look in the code |
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23:50:56 | saratoga | i'm probably allocating too little space somewhere, and since theres no MMU to watch out for this sort of thing, not realizing it when I overright my data |
23:51:11 | linuxstb | Doesn't the code check the return value of malloc? |
23:51:34 | saratoga | i took out most of the mallocs and replaced then with char[]s |
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23:53:28 | saratoga | that reminds me, is there some limit to how much memory i can steal from the mp3 buffer? |
23:53:39 | saratoga | for testing purposes only |
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23:54:12 | petur | the moment you steal it, you get it all |
23:54:18 | petur | depends on target |
23:54:34 | mud-rockbox | okay, in my plugin i have the plugin_api pointer called rb. if i pass that to another object file, is there some reason when in that other object file calls to passed_rb->splash won't work? |
23:55:09 | saratoga | did you make rb static? |
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23:55:37 | mud-rockbox | yes, but i'm passing it in to an init function in the second object file |
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23:55:44 | mud-rockbox | shouldn't that work? |
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23:56:36 | saratoga | i don't really understand how c is supposed to work, but yes, i think you could pass it as a reference between files |
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23:57:13 | mud-rockbox | oh good, i wonder why it doesn't then... |
23:57:49 | | Quit HellDragon ("reboot") |
23:57:55 | mud-rockbox | it all compiles and runs fine, except any calls into the plugin_api do nothing |