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#rockbox log for 2007-06-28

00:04:48 Join Battousai [0] (n=bryan@gentoo/developer/battousai)
00:06:55 Join odb|fidel_ [0] (n=fidel@static.88-198-254-222.clients.your-server.de)
00:06:57odb|fidel_ahoi
00:07:55odb|fidel_i have a small problem. was inside theme browser/manager , seelcted a new theme, and now my ipod only shows a blue screen after booting it up(basicly after the rockbox login screen)
00:08:20odb|fidel_can i simply delete that theme and rockbox jumps back to default screen, or what is best way to solve that ?
00:08:37odb|fidel_copy the content of another theme in that theme folder ?
00:08:42odb|fidel_any ideas ?
00:09:04mud-rbdeleting that theme would probably work, just save a backup in case it blows up somehow
00:09:11 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
00:09:28mud-rbworst comes to worse you can probably just delete the settings file, i forget exactly what it is named though
00:09:47amiconnOr just reset the settings, no need to fiddle with files
00:09:58mud-rbwell if he can't see anything that might be hard...
00:10:33amiconnOn ipod, just flip the hold switch on immediately if you see the bootlogo
00:10:42 Quit [mbm] (Remote closed the connection)
00:10:43odb|fidel_amiconn: how can i reset the settings, without having control over the menu ?
00:10:44amiconn(the rockbox bootlogo, not the apple)
00:10:48 Join [mbm] [0] (i=mbm@openwrt.org)
00:10:51odb|fidel_oh
00:10:52mud-rboh, that's handy
00:11:04amiconnShould be mentioned in the manual...
00:11:07mud-rbis there one of those for the sansa do you happen to know offhand? i didn't see it in the manual
00:11:24 Quit joa ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )")
00:11:40 Join joa [0] (n=joe@86.155.238.101)
00:12:38odb|fidel_amiconn: seems like changing the hold-switch position while rockbox logo doenst change anything
00:14:43amiconnThe hold switch method should work on ipods (except the g3) and iriver h10
00:14:52amiconn...acording to the source code
00:14:55odb|fidel_video ipod here
00:15:13odb|fidel_so changing once from non-hold to hold and back, right ?
00:15:22LloreanYou need to leave hold on.
00:15:55 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:16:44amiconnWorks here. If it doesn't work, hold was enabled too late. If it boots into apple, it was too early
00:18:01 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
00:20:02odb|fidel_well even after deleting the theme its still the same
00:20:26odb|fidel_hold-button seems to be not working here, tried it 5 times
00:21:42odb|fidel_so redefiniting the theme in settings would be next idea, right ?
00:23:47odb|fidel_urg ,eve nthat does not work
00:25:10mud-rbmaybe the theme isn't the problem...maybe try backing up your .rockbox folder, deleting it and reinstalling rockbox?
00:25:38mud-rbassuming you already tried deleting the settings file
00:25:54odb|fidel_no i just changed the theme in the config file
00:26:02odb|fidel_lets try the delete idea
00:26:45odb|fidel_seems like i have to reinstall rockbox
00:26:48odb|fidel_damn
00:29:39 Quit spiorf_ (Remote closed the connection)
00:29:43 Quit Siltaar_ (Remote closed the connection)
00:30:28 Quit obo ("bye")
00:31:21odb|fidel_well at least that worked :D
00:31:28odb|fidel_happy again hehe
00:31:35odb|fidel_thx guxs for all hints
00:31:51odb|fidel_and keep that wonderful rockbox alive
00:34:59 Quit Cassandra (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:40:18 Quit ender` (" The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid. -- Art Spander")
00:40:47*amiconn seems to have found the PP clock setting routine in the apple firmware
00:41:07amiconnIt uses a slightly different flow for PP5020 vs. PP5022 :)
00:41:40mud-rbhaha, cool
00:43:28 Quit AdmiralJ ("Quitting")
00:48:43preglowanything resembling what we do?
00:50:04amiconnroughly
00:51:30amiconnOur constants seem to be mixed up, and the order also seems to be a bit different
00:51:51amiconnWill have to analyse this in detail
00:53:15 Quit relaxed (Remote closed the connection)
00:53:27 Join relaxed [0] (n=relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed)
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01:00
01:01:04TTSboxSingle file plugins are incorporated by putting it into SOURCES, but how do we incorporate folders
01:01:08TTSboxlike doom
01:01:18mud-rbSUBDIRS
01:01:24TTSboxthnx
01:02:35 Join gerv [0] (n=gerv@grmarkham.plus.com)
01:02:58linuxstbBut you need to create a Makefile in your plugin's directory. I would recommend copying the sudoku Makefile.
01:03:13TTSboxhmm thnx
01:03:19gervHi. The iPod Nano 2nd Gen is currently not supported. Is there any info on when (if ever) this might change? I've scoured the wiki but can't find anything.
01:03:41linuxstbTTSbox: The sudoku Makefile uses a SOURCES file in your plugin's directory to list the files to compile.
01:04:07linuxstbTTSbox: It's probably just a matter of replacing the word "sudoku" with the name of your plugin in the makefile - it's very generic.
01:04:08TTSboxone more thnx
01:04:29linuxstbgerv: No-one is working on it.
01:04:40amiconnpreglow: It looks to me that the clock switching happens in steps similar to what the coldfire needs:
01:04:41gervLack of interest or lack of time?
01:04:56amiconnSwitch away from pll, reprogram pll, wait for relock, and switch back
01:05:07jurrielack of info
01:05:14linuxstbgerv: Both of those are true. But the hardware is completely different to other ipods, and the Apple firmware is completely encrypted (again, unlike earlier ipods)
01:05:23preglowamiconn: well, yeah, i think i have already done some comments indicating that
01:05:24amiconnOn the pp5022 there is a relock bit, on the 5020 it just seems to wait for 500 usec
01:05:47gervUrk. Sign of things to come?
01:05:49preglowcool, we don't use the relock bit
01:05:57amiconnOur routine probaly combines some steps into one which shouldn't be combined
01:06:13jurriegerv: nope... not until someone somewhere breaks a code somewhere
01:06:51gervI mean, is this a sign that all future iPods will be hard to hack?
01:06:52amiconnThis is from just glancing through the code; will print it out and comment using a pen (advantage: I can draw lots of lines and arrows)
01:06:53mud-rbjurrie: i think he meant as sign that apple wants to be more evil
01:07:09preglowmuch like what ida-pro does for you :/
01:07:15preglowsomeone should start coding a clone
01:07:17amiconnNo it doesn't
01:07:24jurriemud-rb: I was responding to his previous msg
01:07:30preglowi'm almost certain it does
01:07:32mud-rboh woops, yeah...sorry
01:07:41jurriebut, I may have misread
01:07:59amiconnIda can do a lot (I have the thing loaded in ida)
01:08:09gervOK, thanks.
01:08:25gervSomeone might like to update the wiki to reflect this truth, so that others like me don't get false hope.
01:08:27preglowokiedoke, haven't used ida for years now
01:08:40gervAfter all, you guys make great strides in other areas; it's easy to assume this is just one more thing on a ToDo list.
01:08:44amiconnBut it didn't even help to actually spot the routine... because it starts from a known entry point, and only disassembles what I can reach from there
01:09:41amiconnThe clock setting routine isn't reachable from the main entry point for ida (obviously it runs into disassembling errors before)
01:10:09amiconnSo I took an arm-elf-objdump disassembly and searched for 0x60006000 with offsets like 0x20
01:10:15preglowyeah, that's what i had to do too
01:10:17amiconnThen looked up that position in ida
01:10:29 Join PaulJam_ [0] (i=Paul@vpn-3006.gwdg.de)
01:10:42preglowyou can usually just search for the address without offsets, thanks to arm addressing modes
01:10:59preglowyou'll usually find it in a literal pool
01:11:18amiconnyes
01:11:44amiconnBut 0x60006000 is not only used for the clock generation, so not all occurences will lead to that
01:12:08preglowagreed, heh
01:12:35preglowi had to wade through a ton of references looking for i2c/pcf comm
01:13:34amiconnThe mini firmware is nice for the clock setting research; it's obviously the same firmware for g1 and g2 (though different versions)
01:14:15amiconnIt checks for pp5020/pp5022 in a lot of places (using a small function)
01:14:33preglowreally? how?
01:14:55preglowusing the pp string address?
01:14:59amiconnyes
01:15:03preglowcool
01:15:57amiconnhttp://pastebin.ca/592836
01:16:15jhMikeSyou'd actually find 0x60006000 among constants on iPod? for sansa it's usually like a mov r0, #0x60000000 followed later by add r0, r0, #0x00006000.
01:16:58preglowyep
01:17:03preglowi've found it tons of times
01:17:26preglowthe ipod approach saves you some space in spots where speed isn't critical
01:17:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:17:53preglowassuming you load the same constant several times
01:18:04preglowi think the coders were just lazy/ignorant
01:18:41jhMikeSon e200 it pretty much depends on whether or not it can be made of two shiftable values
01:19:01amiconnhmmm
01:20:33preglowjhMikeS: well, that's standard arm fare
01:21:21preglowso same for ipod
01:21:53jhMikeSmaybe so but I've never seen anything like 0x60006000 just loaded using ldr rx, [pc, #something] there (but I haven't looked at everything)
01:23:14preglowthere's plenty of places in rockbox doing the latter approach where the first would be work fine, it's just a programmer thing
01:23:16jhMikeSpreglow: maybe I'm off on some wierd tangent misinterpreting you :P
01:23:34preglowi correct the ones i find
01:23:38preglowmaybe :>
01:24:25 Quit relaxed (Remote closed the connection)
01:24:29 Part gerv
01:24:53amiconnNow if I would remember when Toni wrote his comments regarding the PP PLL :(
01:24:59amiconn(was it him, even?)
01:25:17preglowwhich comments?
01:25:27preglowahh, irc
01:25:28jhMikeStrying to find a nice fix to playback restarting after a paused seek isn't so easy. it's not even clear why it appeared and didn't always happen.
01:25:47amiconnmailing list
01:27:36preglowsure it wasn't mrh?
01:27:43jhMikeStoni tends to pop some stuff up and then make himself scarce. if I commit the sd card patch that will be second patch I did the follow-through on - codec recording being the first :\
01:28:08amiconnhmmmmmmmmm
01:28:20preglowamiconn: i have seen some notes by him on that, i'm sure of that
01:28:39 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:29:30linuxstbpreglow: Yes, it was MrH
01:29:41 Join webguest83 [0] (i=18b883c1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2bc5f61cb794e55b)
01:30:17jhMikeSamiconn: if you happen to come accross any details re: the use of mailboxes and the hardware semaphores, that would be nifty :)
01:30:32webguest83i installed all the software and when i unplug it it loads to the rockbox opening screen and sits there anything i can do? Im using an iPod mini by the way
01:30:58preglowjhMikeS: is using mailboxes any worse than just enabling the mbox interrupt and using the mbox regs?
01:31:15preglowjhMikeS: the apple bootloader uses the mbox regs in polling mode a lot
01:33:05jhMikeSpreglow: that's probably the simple part but I do think from spying...and a pp patent doc corroborates that there are hardware semaphores that are basically mutexes
01:33:34preglowthat would be really cool...
01:34:24jhMikeSthe main advantage to all that is having no core lock and a mailbox interrupt can wake a thread on it's own core...the waking core can request the service
01:35:05preglowbut i don't think i've ever heard it mentioned
01:35:14preglowor seen anything resembling it
01:35:48jhMikeSI think the system_init on e200 is poking one of those in rb...but I can't be sure
01:36:22 Quit webguest83 ("CGI:IRC")
01:36:27preglowdoesn't sound like one of the easiest things to re either
01:39:02jurriewebguest83: so you followed the manual's installation instructions, installed the bootloader, firmware & fonts?
01:39:12mud-rbhe's gone
01:39:19jurrieoops.... silly me
01:39:31mud-rbyeah, i missed his message too...
01:43:46jhMikeSpreglow: the emu might actually be a big help...it needs to refresh the database successfully so it's more useable. one problem is that it doesn't seem to think it's running on a pp5024 but something older (based on the fact it thinks there's only one GPIO IRQ bit)
01:44:28jurrieI may have to try a non-official build and to see if my new MicroSD card is recognized by Rockbox on my Sansa. OF did recognize it so it should be OK.
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01:46:02jhMikeSjurrie: a build with the latest patch in the tracker should work. some more word on the results of testing is quite good. post them there if you could.
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01:46:49preglowwell, i gotta beddie
01:46:53preglowso long, suckers
01:46:57jhMikeSnighty
01:47:05 Quit bdgraue (Remote closed the connection)
01:49:09jurrieOK.... I'll have to give it a shot. I still wonder what's causing the Sansa database issue... just weird to have it go from apparent working/stable to unusable.
01:50:20jhMikeSjurrie: I myself was speaking the the emulator. which database issue?
01:51:16jhMikeSoriginal firmware database or rockbox database?
01:51:26jurriecan't init the database... causing illegal instruction while comming
01:51:43jurrierockbox, of course
01:51:55jurrieanything but the default theme causes major issues
01:52:13amiconnHmm, very interesting....
01:52:37jurrielooks like stack corruption to me.... the addresses that keep popping up, are mostly very low.... just below 0x400
01:52:43mud-rbthe database always seemed a little hairy on e200 for me, lots of weird behavior i couldn't pin down
01:53:19amiconnThe PP seems to have 4 different clock states... and if we've set the wrong source for irq or fiq and an interrupt/fiq occurs, it will probably hang...
01:53:51jurrieit seemed to be working fine for me until last week or so. Coming from a Karma, I drive by way of the database.
01:54:14saratogai've had no issues at all with the sansa database
01:54:46jurrierecent build? Some speculate that it may be due to background images in the themes
01:54:47mud-rbyeah, i couldn't pin down if my problems were because of the database or my files, and then i just gave up and retagged them all and now i just use the file browser because i organized them all anyway...
01:55:08amiconnThat's clearly an area for extended experimentation... but not now
01:55:13 Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection)
01:56:13jurriejhMikeS: any particular build to try wrt MicroSD? I got lucky and my Mac and Sansa are talking to each other for a change, so I can install a build. Mac does see the MicroSD in the Sansa when connected.
01:56:53amiconnIiuc setting the idle source to a low frequency should help saving energy....
01:57:03jhMikeSI can't say that patching the latest build with the most recent patch should be any problem
01:57:46jhMikeSamiconn: what do you mean the idle source? A divider for the xtal to idle at < 24 MHz?
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01:58:56jhMikeSor just use the 24Mhz instead of the PLL?
02:00
02:00:28amiconnThe pp has 4 clock states: idle, run, irq and fiq
02:00:54amiconnEach one can be connected to various clock sources
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02:10:42mud-rbwow that's really cool, there's apparently morse mode input for the keyboard...i'll have to brush up on my morse code
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02:25:39jurrieI wouldn't mind seeing the bootloaders implement an "alternate Rockbox" or "safe mode". Hold ">>" on boot and the loader loads an alternate Rockbox image... Handy when you want to take a new build for a real-world test-drive. It ensures you've got a working player if there are issues with the latest-and-greatest.
02:27:01mud-rbugh, does someone know where i could find the keyboard mapping for the uisimulator for e200?
02:27:12mud-rbthe wiki doesn't list the keys, and i kind of need to test some stuff
02:28:32pixelmastart the sim with the −−background flag...
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02:29:22mud-rboh wow, that's really cool
02:29:23mud-rbthanks
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02:42:40safetydanjurrie, does rolo not do that for you?
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03:17:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:31:07jurriesafetydan: rolo? Not aware of it
03:33:34jurriejust installed cpchan's build... I can confirm that the microSD patch that he includes appears to work fine on my Sansa. Files is able to access the filesystem on the microSD. Playback of ogg file from microSD works as well.
03:35:57jurrieloaded Rockboxed theme, Database built just fine, including tracks from microSD
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03:40:44jurriesafetydan: just read the section on rolo in the manual. Any potential conflicts between "base" firmware and rolo-loaded firmware? I'm thinking of plugins that have version dependencies, etc.
03:44:44Lloreanjurrie: You'd have the exact same problems with an alternate binary from the bootloader.
03:45:10jhMikeSjurrie: good to hear. I'm itching to commit that one and then work on making it a bit more efficient.
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04:48:50mud-rbyay, my plugin is done, except for testing and a little cleaning up
05:00
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05:17:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:38:41mud-rbis there some sort of initialization you need to do before using rb->set_int ?
05:38:54mud-rbbecause it keeps giving me insane results, like 65k
05:41:03mud-rbokay, it only gives garbage if i choose the maximum value
05:41:07mud-rbwhat the hell?
05:44:32jurrieLlorean: I was thinking that the bootloader would use an alternate .rockbox along with the alternate firmware... might require that the bootloader do some directory renaming prior to kicking off the firmware's code, or somehow allow the bootloader to pass the .rockbox directory as a parameter to the firmware (probably a safer solution)
05:44:48scorchejurrie: he isnt here...
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05:46:31jurrieoops ....
05:48:09mud-rbcan someone try to run this plugin and choose the largest value a few times?
05:48:10jurriejhMikeS: FYI, I just loaded Rettumbox on the cpchan build and re-initialized the database.... no problems. So, whatever cpchan did seems to be working
05:48:11mud-rbhttp://www.pastebin.ca/593089
05:48:22mud-rbbecause it's giving me large garbage values 90% of the time
05:48:27mud-rband i really have no idea why
05:50:06mud-rb(it's just a call to set_int, i'm not asking everyone to debug my whole plugin or something)
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07:28:52mud-rbcan someone look at this and tell me if it fails for you? i'm getting bongus results from set_int if i choose the maximum value from the list: http://www.pastebin.ca/593089
07:28:55mud-rbam i doing something wrong?
07:30:04mud-rbit seems to happen almost every time, once in a while i'll get the correct result but mostly it's just a huge garbage number
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08:14:25amiconnmud-rb: The 3rd parameter, "voice_unit", is an int and not a const char *. The no-voice value is -1
08:14:34GodEaterdesowin's rbutil.ebuild looks much prettier than mine
08:15:53amiconnNm, UNIT_INT is correct there if you want it voiced
08:17:02mud-rbhmm, -1 is the "no voice" option though? it really doesn't make sense for mine to be voiced but i didn't know how to do that
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08:19:14amiconnNot for the unit, I confused something
08:19:22mud-rboh okay
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08:19:45amiconnBut your variable should be initialized to the default before calling set_int()
08:20:22mud-rbomg...does it just not set it if the first value is chosen?
08:21:09amiconnIf the value before calling set_int() is outside [min, max] the result might be unpredictable
08:21:35amiconnAnd if you just write int temp; the value before the call can be anything
08:21:39mud-rbohh i see what you're saying
08:21:43mud-rbokay i guess that kind of makes sense
08:23:00mud-rbalright thanks, yeah it works now of course
08:23:10mud-rbi didn't even consider that it would read what was in temp before....
08:23:47amiconnIt's like settings work; it starts with the current values
08:23:53amiconn-s
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08:24:32mud-rbyeah, i mean i guess that would be the obvious way to set a default...haha i should probably get some sleep i guess :(
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08:25:44amiconnHmm, and I spotted a bug along the way. Need to tell JdGordon....
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09:11:45peturanybody seen austriancoder lately?
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09:12:35GodEaternot that I recall
09:12:51B4gderaustriancoder (n=austrian@80.120.117.30) signed off 4 days and 19 hours ago
09:13:05B4gderaccording to logbot
09:13:26petur:/
09:13:36LinusNhe's probably extremely busy working on the usb :-)
09:14:15peturI would love to believe that :p
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09:17:30peturlooks like he's on holiday, not a trace of activity since last friday (blog, patches,...) unless something bad happened
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09:18:03davinai heard alien abductions are on the rise ;)
09:18:38B4gderand those austrian aliens are the worst I hear
09:18:53davinahehe
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09:21:29peturthis is weird.. his last message was friday 17:54 "austriancoder eats a winner cake now *verygood*" and only the next day he got offline (connection reset). Normally he's the kind of join/quit guy like me, no constant open link.
09:21:39cropGodEater: hi. Are you the one who wrote the wiki page about Git? I have a question.
09:21:43peturmust have been a bad cake
09:22:31LinusNoh, i must have sent him the wrong cookie - that one was for you :-P
09:22:31scorchethat reminds me...i need to read that page and edit a few things..
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09:22:59GodEatercrop: I am indeed - ask away, although I don't guarantee I'll know the answer
09:23:05davinai just had 1/2 a cookie for breakfast lol
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09:23:32*petur would eat any cake/cookie coming from a scandinavian country if it has wodka in it :)
09:24:02peturlike thos chocolats from finlandia
09:24:10markunone evening I had a piece of spacecake, didn't do anything..
09:24:15davinathis was pecan, belgian white chocolate and toffee. it was a giant one tho :D
09:24:16B4gderthe bork bork bork vodka cookies
09:24:17cropGodEater: the advantage of git must be the easiness of branching so that a dev doesn't need many reps. But how can I switch between branches? The build script needs a "current branch" to work on
09:24:21markunthe next morning I was completely stoned and had to go to work :(
09:24:30scorchepetur: i had vodka chocolates once....quite tasty...of course, my firend didnt tell me they were filled with liquid vodka at first si i ended up with vodka down my shirt
09:25:07cropGodEater: The build script doesn't know anything about branches etc, it needs the "current state"
09:25:23GodEatercrop: perhaps this page will explain more : http://wiki.videolan.org/Git
09:25:27scorchecrashd_: actually, git focuses on merging more (which is the truly important part, but of course branching is easy)
09:25:47GodEatercrop: I didn't really go into the details of *how* to use git, it was more *why*
09:26:12cropGodEater: so if I work on many features at the same time which may affect each other I must be able to switch between them
09:26:26cropGodEater: I'll take a look at that page, thanks
09:27:02davinaanyway... if i install ipodlinux on my ipod, can I run rockbox in too, or do I have to wipe rockbox off?
09:27:14scorcheGodEater: "Me personally, I start to see git as a very useful change - particularly for our Google Summer of Code people." should be changed to GSoC people and JdGordon =P
09:27:28GodEaterscorche: hahaha - yes !
09:27:37cropBut the overall procedure is not very much different from the following under SVN: you work on a feature and make modifications. When you want to work on another feature you "freeze" the state by preparing the patch and then reverting
09:27:46GodEaterscorche: well it *is* a wiki - feel free to add that :)
09:28:17LinusNi hear all this talk about git and the easo of merging, but i have yet to understand *how* git makes merging easier
09:28:23scorchecrop: with git, typically people have lots of different branches at teh same time, so there isnt a need to "freeze"
09:28:32cropSo you just have to keep a patch for each "branch"
09:29:02cropscorche: I suppose, the page mentioned above also explains how to switch between them
09:29:06GodEaterLinusN: I assume you're not talking about the technical details but actually resolving conflicts I suppose ?
09:29:14LinusNyes
09:29:28GodEaterwell I imagine conflict resolution is no different than any other SCM
09:29:32peturLinusN: because it has a history of your changes since the branch?
09:29:55LinusNpetur: so?
09:30:03*LinusN is thick today
09:30:10scorchewell, for one, merging is typically a royal PITA on svn and cvs and is something that needs to be planned and prepared for...can be a lengthy procedure
09:30:33peturyou get three sources to use for the merge: parent, current and modified
09:30:36GodEaterLinusN: there's a simple test for you to do. Create yourself a small git repository, make yourself a text file. Make two branches, make two conflicting changes to the file, and see what happens when you merge again.
09:30:51GodEater:)
09:30:54peturClearCase also has this and the merging always went smooth (automatic)
09:30:55*GodEater is very practical
09:31:18LinusNi use clearcase a lot, and the graphical merge tool is nice
09:31:21*B4gder agrees with LinusN's not understanding
09:31:30*petur pokes LinusN with a needle and sees him float away
09:31:38LinusN*pooof*
09:31:50croppetur: but it isn't a feature of the SCM but rather a proper tooling. I think the same can be made with SVN
09:31:58peturClearCase is the best tool I have ever used
09:32:09peturalso the most expensive ;)
09:32:10B4gderclearcase is cool, but very very very bloated
09:32:11*scorche refuses to make a comment about the "old fuddyduddies" and the "slick new deal"
09:32:28scorche=)
09:32:40B4gdernot to mention that everyone messes up with clearcase very often
09:32:53LinusNclearcase is the worst network hog mankind has ever designed, including Code Red
09:32:54B4gderand you need a dozen full-time admins for it
09:32:59peturhaha shadowcopies and that stuff, yes
09:33:08GodEaterLinusN: even worse than the original DOOM ? :)
09:33:22scorcheB4gder: honestly, i dont think it is really explainable by us and is something one needs to get "down and dirty" with
09:33:33B4gdermost probably
09:33:49GodEateror you could email Mr. Torvalds again and ask him
09:33:50GodEater:)
09:34:00B4gderhe doesn't mention those things either
09:34:03GodEaterso long as you're prepared to be called "both ugly and stupid"
09:34:03scorchethere is an idea =P
09:34:34GodEaterthe git-users list seemed very helpful when I sent that first email
09:34:37LinusNmy question is really: what is it in the git design that makes merging easier, apart from having an intelligent merge tool?
09:34:40B4gderactually, when it comes to merging changes from two branches into one, I don't see how it can be done in very many different ways
09:34:43peturI think it's just the fact that it uses three sources for the merge instead of the normal two you have now
09:34:48cropI now understand. Just do git checkout <branch>. This really makes working with many branches easier. Merging etc. isn't an argument for me but working with many branches at the same time is
09:34:59cropWith SVN, you have to have many reps
09:35:08GodEatercrop: yay!
09:35:39*petur is going to try GIT when he gets the time
09:35:53cropSo git may be more convenient from the "client" (i.e. dev's) point of view. There's little difference from the "admin" perspevtive
09:35:58peturin a few months probably :/
09:36:01scorcheLinusN, B4gder: this is likely much better asked to the git ML
09:36:08markunB4gder: I can imagine some ways but don't know if git uses them
09:36:09scorchecrashd_: yes
09:36:10GodEatercrop: the whole point is to make the dev's life easier :)
09:36:16crop...as git saves disc space on you local comp
09:36:39scorchebrandon (lostlogi) is quite a fan of git from what i gathered at devconW =P
09:37:06scorchecrop: that isnt near the only reason, but that is one
09:37:11*GodEater will attempt a discussion at DevConPub next month
09:37:13cropBut we could also create a little script that would a) save current mods into a patch file b) revert changes c) apply another patch file
09:37:16markunB4gder: if you copy a part of system.c to system-pp.c in the target tree and someone makes a commit in the original code in system.c then a smart system could merge them in system-pp.c
09:37:22*GodEater doesn't promise it'll be in any way coherent though
09:37:31cropand voila: you have many branches
09:37:35scorchei still think we should ask these in the git ML
09:37:46GodEaterscorche: no-one's stopping you :)
09:37:51scorchei would like to know specifically as well
09:37:53B4gdermarkun: sure, but to me all that is just tiny details
09:37:56scorcheGodEater: time is, actually
09:38:04GodEaterah - curse him
09:38:08scorchei am obscenely busy these days..
09:38:16scorchefor no apparent reason
09:39:11GodEaterless sleep!
09:39:11mud-rbcrop: if your patches conflict isn't that going to be horrible to reconcile?
09:39:58mud-rbcrop: i mean when you try to merge two of them
09:40:00cropmud-rb: but you'd have the same problem with git
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09:40:45mud-rbcrop: ...hmm,..haha yeah i guess it would be about the same
09:40:48cropMy only point is how to work on many features without having to have many reps
09:41:31cropgit enables it "out of the box", for SVN you need a little script and some discipline
09:41:33peturLet me repeat: it uses three sources for the merge instead of the normal two you have now. If you know when you started changing, you also know when the official rep started changing and you can compare both during the merge.
09:41:40B4gderto me git's best abilities seems to be to provide easy branches to whoever wants
09:41:56*markun is installing git to try it out
09:42:13B4gderpetur: but surely that can be or is done by other SCM tools?
09:42:33LinusNi'm sure git is better in many respects, but i'm always suspicious when i hear loud voices saying something is "better" without solid facts
09:42:35B4gderfor branches being merged
09:43:09B4gderI see git perfect for linux, u-boot and other projects with a clear hiearchal architeced project
09:43:24croppetur: can't SVN track down when you started to make changes and present you three sources?
09:43:31LinusNas for merging, you can use any merge tool you like with svn
09:43:50markunLinusN: do you know of any nice merge tools?
09:43:53peturcrop: only if you brach I think
09:43:59petur*branch
09:44:30B4gderyes, a separate "patch" being merged doesn't provide 3-way merge
09:45:06LinusNmarkun: not really :-)
09:45:08GodEaterfrom what I understood from LinusT's speech, it's the fact that git tracks content and not files that helps a lot too
09:45:23B4gderthat's useful for file renames etc, sure
09:45:29B4gderbut that's not a huge problem of ours
09:45:52B4gderand it is a subject where svn has problems
09:47:08croppetur: isn't it possible to find out what "central" rep version your local rep is based on? I.e. when an update was made last? Then you could get the three sources
09:48:08cropSo SVN might provide everything we need, it's just the question of proper tooling around it
09:49:18LinusNhttp://meld.sourceforge.net/
09:50:26GodEatersvn still doesn't allow easy sharing of work across developers that hasn't been committed to the central repo yet.
09:50:33LinusNhttp://kdiff3.sourceforge.net/
09:50:46peturfor us, I see git more usefull for local stuff for the moment. If everybody likes it we can still move to it later
09:50:55B4gdergit allows easier work on (very many) separate branches and merging back
09:51:07peturLinusN: are those better than tkdiff?
09:51:52peturbleh, I hate diff tools that don't show code on the same line
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09:53:00LinusNthe tkdiff sourceforge page is not very informative...
09:53:16peturkdiff3 looks nice
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10:02:40GodEaterhttp://utsl.gen.nz/talks/git-svn/intro.html
10:08:16desowinGodEater: does my ebuild work well ?
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10:10:20GodEaterdesowin: still haven't tried it - got to unmerge my own first !
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10:11:07desowinsimply emerge it again, it'll remove previous installed as it's still with SLOT="0"
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10:12:04GodEaterah true
10:13:27*GodEater downloads it to try
10:14:16GodEaterworks perfectly thanks :)
10:14:52GodEatere17 picked up the .desktop file too
10:14:56GodEaterno icon though =/
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10:15:15scorchehaha....e17...
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10:15:30desowindoes e17 support .ico icons ?
10:15:35GodEaterdoesn't look like it
10:15:37GodEaterwhich is odd
10:15:46GodEaterI could have sworn it used imagemagick
10:15:49desowinatleast it works fine in xfce and kde, haven't tested it on any other desktop
10:16:05GodEaterwhy is e17 funny ?
10:16:33desowinit's too eyecandy and releases are as often as rockbox ;-)
10:16:48GodEaterit's not as eye candy as beryl
10:17:00GodEaterand releasing often must be a good thing or else we wouldn't do it :)
10:17:29mud-rbhaha, i thought you didn't do it because it's a pain?
10:17:34B4gdercompiz fusion! ;-)
10:17:44GodEatersorry yes, beryl is dead now
10:17:53*B4gder doesn't really see the point of that either
10:18:07*desowin likes alt-tab in compiz
10:18:10mud-rbcompiz is such a bad name...beryl isn't much better, but...bleh
10:18:30desowinand small window previews
10:18:36scorcheGodEater: e17 is all shine
10:18:56*markun isn't crazy about the name rockbox either :)
10:19:00scorcheB4gder: the point is wobbly windows
10:19:11B4gderthey make me feel ill ;-)
10:19:18mud-rbhaha really? i thought rockbox is a nice enough name
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10:26:32GodEaterdesowin: so will your ebuild be making it into portage any time soon ? :)
10:27:00desowinare there offical rbutil tarballs ?
10:27:11GodEaternope
10:27:49B4gderwe could make some if there's a desire
10:27:52desowinit would be a bit tricky to got accepted then, but there's chance
10:27:54*JdGordon slaps scorche
10:28:06GodEaterbit harsh
10:28:14desowingentoo isn't so keen on 'live' sources
10:28:21scorcheJdGordon: you love me and you knot it
10:28:26GodEaterunderstandably
10:28:27JdGordonhehe :)
10:28:31GodEater"knot" it ?
10:28:35GodEatera JdGordonism ?
10:28:36scorcheknow
10:28:49scorchehe gave me his old keyboard
10:29:00peturand the old batteries
10:29:38amiconnJdGordon: There is a problem in set_int():
10:29:50JdGordonoh?
10:30:11amiconnThe settings worker calls settings_save() if it sets an int, however, this is nonsense when used from plugins
10:31:55JdGordonwell, yeah, but its not such a big deal
10:33:43amiconnWell it doesn't cause errors, but it might cause unnecessary spinups
10:34:40desowinGodEater: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=183494 you can add yourself to CC
10:34:56JdGordonno it wont. settings_save() registers to save the settings on the next spinup (iirc), it doesnt write them out staright away
10:36:28desowinshould we link to this on wiki ?
10:37:32*petur had an idea this morning: why not buffer the first song of the playlist at startup (in the background). If the user starts playback, it can start playing right away.
10:38:28amiconnJdGordon: Yes, but if you shut down afterwards (or connect usb) before the next spinup would normally happen, you get an extra one
10:38:30GodEaterhahaha
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10:39:03mud-rbdo most players take a noticeable amount of time to start playing?
10:39:14peturspin-up
10:39:30mud-rboh yeah...i have a flash based one, that probably helps
10:39:37JdGordonpetur: why only the first track? so the full buffer on startup
10:40:58peturmaybe that's too much reading in case the user decides to play something else?
10:41:18peturbut you could do that too
10:48:35JdGordonwell, if the disk is spinning anyway there is no probkem
10:48:50JdGordonexcept is the bug pressing stop while buffering still a bug?
11:00
11:02:07amiconnpetur: I can't see what would be the advantage. If one wants to continue the playlist after boot, it would not be any faster than pressing the resume button _during boot_
11:02:16amiconn(or having resume on startup enabled)
11:04:28peturI notice it all the time, must be the way I use it. Because of the boottime, I usually switch on, do something else, then press play and get annoyed by the spinup. And I don't want resume on boot because I don't always switch on to play music
11:05:08peturdoing just the buffering seems harmless to me
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11:21:00amiconnpetur: I usually boot and press play as soon as I can see the rockbox logo if I want to resume on startup.
11:21:21amiconnI admit this is annoying on all targets but flashed archoses because of the boot time
11:21:54peturwould the buffering be an issue for you?
11:23:02amiconnyes
11:24:11*petur could have guessed :p
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11:46:27Simon99Can I hear radio with the european version from sansa or isn't there a radoi modul?
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11:46:48mud-rbnope, european version doesn't have the hardware from what i understand
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11:47:31Simon99shit.... but thanks
11:48:05mud-rbnp, yeah does seem pretty stupid
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11:49:16Simon99and when i download the american firmware for sansa?
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11:49:46mud-rblack of hardware is difficult to fix with firmware...
11:49:50peturSimon99: http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200.html says that there is some contradiction
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11:50:32peturSanDisk says the chip is disabled by firmware, some people say there was no chip mounted in their player
11:51:05mud-rboh that's interesting...so maybe it's possible i guess
11:51:39markunSimon99: maybe you can open up your sansa to check if the chip exists?
11:51:40 Quit Bagder (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:51:45mud-rbit's somewhat belivable that they decided to just remove the hardware in a new rev or something
11:51:48JdGordonif the chip is there rockbox will be able to use it.. no need to open it up
11:51:53peturthe chip should be "Sanyo LV24020LP"
11:52:05markunJdGordon: ah, it's detected?
11:52:06peturah yes, just try it :)
11:52:11JdGordonthe chip is hidden under the daughter board, so not so easy to get to
11:52:24Simon99that means, i can possibly listen to radio with rockbox on sansa?
11:52:41peturif it has the ch8ip
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11:52:47petur*chip
11:52:52Simon99ok, thanks!
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11:55:33mud-rbi don'
11:55:37mud-rbsorry
11:58:31Simon99when i load the american version i hear a rush
11:59:13mud-rber...american version of what? and define "rush"
11:59:28peturBagder probably knows more about this...
12:00
12:00:06mud-rboh are you trying to get the radio to work by using the american version of the firmware? something tells me that sandisk put a little more effort into disabling it than that...
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12:01:43Simon99mud-rb: with rush i mean a very bad noise
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13:06:33XavierGrpetur: another cheap 2100mAh ipod battery for your H380?
13:06:53peturtry to find something else :/
13:07:25peturbut this one is supposed to be for h1x0/h3x0 series, not ipod
13:08:09XavierGryou are asking for it :P
13:08:22peturand I figured if I pay the same price in honkong as I payed in the UK, quality should be better..
13:08:36markun:)
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13:08:59peturyou tell me how to tell if the offered battery isn't cheap chinese crap
13:08:59XavierGrlet's hope that It won't explode inside your H380 again... :)
13:09:14webguest31hello! i hope you can help me. can you say me where i must copy .patch and .diff-files
13:09:20XavierGrpetur: I can't you will have to that risk...
13:09:28B4gderwebguest31: you can copy them whereever you like...
13:09:35B4gderthe question is rather what you do with them afterwards
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13:09:46peturlol
13:09:49XavierGrgrrr power failure
13:09:52mud-rbhaha
13:09:59XavierGrlet's see how long my UPS will hold out
13:10:15markunwebguest31: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WorkingWithPatches
13:10:16peturtoo many airco users in Greece?
13:10:19preglowamiconn: discovered anything interesting?
13:10:23webguest31and what must i do with them?
13:10:27B4gderwebguest31: patches and diffs are source code changes, you need to be able to build the sources first, then you can consider fiddling with patches
13:11:14XavierGrpetur: indeed, the power company is at its maximum
13:11:16B4gderonce you can build a stock version yourself, you can read the WorkingWithPatches page and you'll be a millionair in no-time! ;-)
13:11:38B4gderalthough I can't spell
13:11:42webguest31and how can i build the sources?
13:11:57peturoh no, B4gder thinks he's being funny again :p
13:12:06B4gderI'm sooo amusing
13:12:23B4gderwebguest31: start here => http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DocsIndex#For_Developers
13:12:38webguest31thanks
13:12:41B4gderprepare to spend some time...
13:12:44*petur smells at coffee cup of B4gder and detects booze
13:12:56 Quit webguest31 (Client Quit)
13:13:12markunwebguest31: the simplified guide is more detailed than the detailed guide btw :)
13:13:19B4gderhehe
13:13:23markunhm, too late
13:13:31mud-rbhaha, now that is amusing...
13:15:03KiOuiHi there: Would it be acceptable that, when talking menus are on, Rockbox talks a greting message when starting ? Something like Welcome to Rockbox version x.xx; or Welcome to Rockbox current buiqd, revision N. ?
13:16:17KiOuiFor non-blind users, you have a spash-screen, but for blind, a message saying that rockbox started correctly and is ready to use would be good I think
13:16:26GodEatersounds like a good idea
13:16:35B4gderI guess a few blinds would be thrilled
13:16:40GodEaterhow would you implement it ?
13:17:19KiOuiI see two ways:
13:17:21XavierGrdamn it is getting hot here :(
13:17:48B4gderXavierGr: you in that 40C+ area?
13:17:59XavierGryes :(
13:18:05B4gderwhoa
13:18:17KiOuieither a special .talk file into the .rockbox directory, letting the user customize it.
13:18:24XavierGrwell not 40C+ right now but yesterday it was more like 50C outside
13:18:34KiOuiOr a message like any other list item.
13:19:06GodEaterKiOui: yes, but how is this .talk file to be generated ? If you want it to give version and revision, generation of it should be automated as part of the build process yes ?
13:19:52KiOuiGodEater: If we use a .talk file, it would be hard to give it version and / or revision infos.
13:20:17KiOuiBut maybe both ideas are usable toghether.
13:20:49GodEaterI think this will be easier once TTS is fully implmented
13:20:57GodEateras it could read from the rockbox-info.txt
13:21:16KiOuiA string representing a standard welcome message with version, revision, and so on, and a custom user string into a .talk file. If present, only the custom string is sounded, otherwise the default is sounded.
13:21:53KiOuiGodEater: What do you mean by "fully implemented" ?
13:24:19GodEaterKiOui: well it's not implemented at all at the moment ;)
13:26:08KiOuiGodEater: But... I'm not sure we have suffiscient CPU power to implement this directly on the targets ... ?
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13:26:48KiOuiEven if we make some port of the Espeak fast TTS engine ...
13:27:40peturKiOui: it's a GSoC project
13:27:53KiOuiwow!
13:28:27peturhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SummerOfCode
13:28:38peturand http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TextToSpeech
13:29:34ownatschhi, i would need some help, some months ago i installed rockbox on a ipod mini ... worked fine ... last week i simply copied the new release ".rockbox" directory onto my ipod ... now rockbox hangs when starting ... ver r 13399-070517 ... i need to find a way to be able to talk to the device again somehow ...
13:30:12peturhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodBoot#Recovering_from_a_crash
13:31:27XavierGrUPS is beeping see have to quit
13:31:28 Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!")
13:31:35peturUPS empty
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13:36:14*pixelma wonders why GodEater thinks one would need TTS implemented to let Rockbox talk the revision number - and guesses he never used voice...
13:36:37GodEaterpixelma: I have used it yes
13:36:47GodEaterbut wouldn't it have to read it back digit by digit in it's current form ?
13:37:17GodEateralthough I suppose there's not much wrong with that
13:37:20pixelmawell it can spell numbers (generic)
13:38:01pixelmafor example with the current tagnavi config it spells the length of the song - which obviously differs
13:38:06GodEaterso we'd need a voice clip for the "Welcome to Rockbox, revision" bit, and then just "spell" the number out
13:38:32pixelmathat's what I'd thinh
13:38:41GodEateryeah, I suppose I just didn't think about it long enough
13:38:41pixelmathink too :)
13:38:50GodEaterI'll go to the back of the class again :)
13:43:07 Quit printfXh4 (Connection timed out)
13:44:52mud-rbso, is it bad manners to put work-in-progress patches on the tracker or is that kosher as long as i make it clear in the description?
13:45:00mud-rb(to add a plugin)
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13:45:47B4gderit is done quite often
13:46:08mud-rbalright, cool
13:46:09B4gderand is a good way to get early feedback on something
13:46:42jurrieis the bootloader able to pass any info on to the firmware that the firmware can read when it starts running?
13:47:20Lloreanmud-rb: Some might consider it good manners, because if you get busy your work is around for someone else to continue if interested. ;)
13:47:37B4gderjurrie: it certainly _could_ do that
13:48:12jurrieB4gder: interesting.....
13:48:24mud-rbhaha, okay, sounds good
13:48:48 Quit KiOui (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:49:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:49:37amiconnGodEater: The voice ui can output natural numbers
13:50:12amiconnIt uses that e.g. when setting numeric settings
13:51:41jurrieB4gder: the database issues we've been encountering on the Sansa has made me long for the ability to select an alternate Rockbox firmware version. Perhaps via holding down ">>" while booting. It was suggested that ROLO would allow something similar. But I disagree. I'd like to have the alternate firmware have its own .rockbox directory tree equivalent. Rockbox were to use all file access as relative to its root, then kick
13:51:41jurrieing off another firmware version with a different .rockbox root (passed to it by the bootloader) then there's be 2 separate firmware installations. The user could consider one to be the stable version and the other the test version.
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13:52:27jurrieWhen taking a new version out for a real-world test (i.e. take it with you for the day) it'd be nice to be able to go back to a reliable version just in case you run into serious snags
13:53:13B4gderyeah, sounds like a fair use-case
13:54:07B4gderhttp://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/06/28/sandisk_announces_8gb_microsdhc/
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13:54:24B4gder8GB in that little thing...
13:54:49petursaw that... 'somewhere in 2007'...
13:54:54B4gderhehe, yeah
13:54:59B4gdersounds very precise
13:55:14B4gdernot at all just a sign of them wanting to just throw out a press-release
13:55:27mud-rbhaha
13:55:40jurriecool.... Of course when they get around to releasing a Sansa unit capable of using it, the Sansa will be locked down a la Nano 2G
13:56:09B4gderyeps, as the R models already are near that
13:56:33mud-rbi sure don't understand why they even bother
13:57:03B4gdernobody does
13:57:20PaulJamjurrie: for that you could just have two firmware directory on your drive and if you want to change the running firmware you rename the .rockbox dir and rename the other firmwaredirectory to .rockbox and then do a rolo (i hope that was understandable)
13:57:24pixelmaB4gder: Sandisk also _announced_ 8GB MMCs in last august...
13:57:30jurrieone wonders what market share rockboxers have .... can't be all that great... would be nice if it were large enough that it commanded manufacturers' respect (as in, "if we do this, they'll go buy brand X instead"
13:57:35*petur mutters something about stupid marketing and managers
13:57:36pixelmaeh.. Samsung sorry
13:58:17peturpixelma: these are micro thingies
13:58:42B4gderMMC sure is huge in comparison to microsd
13:59:06B4gderphysical wise I mean
13:59:13jurriePaulJam: yup, but that assumes that the currently active firmware is still able to do that. Also, I wonder what happens between rename and reboot.... not sure if the currently running firmware needs to access files based on the current .rockbox directory name
13:59:24pixelmaI know, I just wanted to say that the time span between announcement and available on the market can be looong :\
13:59:30B4gderindeed
13:59:34B4gderridiculously long
13:59:59jurrieif you order enough of them I'm sure it'll get to market sooner
14:00
14:00:20jurrieyou announce things to create demand... without demand you don't produce
14:00:33B4gder"order now, and we promise you'll get them... eh, sometime during 2007"
14:00:47pixelmajust likeor *soon* ;)
14:01:01*pixelma joins typing class
14:01:14jurrietry the new typing tutor plugin
14:01:18peturjurrie: do you really think they note down the number of customers that go into a store and ask for one? :p
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14:01:41B4gderhello mr sandisk, put me down for one of them 8gb ones
14:02:03jurriepetur: no... but if you contact them directly with a bazillion (name your currency) they will listen
14:02:20 Quit pseudo_ (No route to host)
14:02:27B4gderyou mean like with the entire rockbox fund? B-]
14:02:32pixelmahah... found something to blame for bad typing... I'm at a wireless keyboard I don't usually work with :P
14:03:26jurrieIf I'm Apple, for instance, and say "we've got a new iPod that takes MicroSD cards, but we want to guarantee that there'll be oodles available by iPod ship date. ..." I think you'd find Sandisk listening
14:03:43zirodayhow do i get rockbox onto my ipod?, when ever i run the installer i get it cant find the ipod
14:04:32PaulJamziroday: have you followed the seps described in the rockbox manual?
14:05:08zirodayPaulJam: yeah, im using ubuntu 7.04 ipod nano 1st gen
14:06:19GodEaterziroday: so your ipod is connected to your computer and in disk mode ?
14:07:08zirodayGodEater: yea
14:07:22GodEaterand you're running ipodpatcher as root / via sudo ?
14:07:28zirodayyup
14:07:57zirodayGodEater: whats ipodpatcher?
14:08:08peturtypicaly it goes like this: development is halfway, management asks when it will be ready. Development puts forward a date, marketing cuts a few weeks/months of that date and puts out a press release. Dev guys read it, start swearing and do extra time to fix the marketing blunder. Product is a success, marketing takes all credit. Product is too late, marketing blames dev.
14:08:25GodEaterziroday: what installer are you using ?
14:08:36zirodayGodEater: how can i tell?
14:08:48markunGodEater: isn't rbutil the only installer?
14:09:11GodEatermarkun: has the manual been changed to say to use rbutil now then ?
14:09:22markunno idea
14:09:24GodEaterziroday: well what command are you running to try to do the install ??
14:10:05zirodaysudo ./rockbox.ipod
14:10:16GodEaterziroday: then you're not actually following the manual are you ?
14:10:39zirodayGodEater: prob not, never read it
14:10:52zirodayGodEater: lemme go find it and ill be back
14:10:57zirodayGodEater: thanks
14:11:05GodEaterand yet you said you were following it...
14:11:48markunziroday: you can also try this tool http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxUtility
14:12:10GodEaterwe really need to change the manual if we're going to start recommending that a lot
14:13:28 Quit pixelma ("bbl")
14:13:39GodEaterotherwise if it doesn't work we can't really be upset that the user "hasn't followed the manual"
14:15:07GodEaterhmm - that perhaps sounds like I'm looking for reasons to be upset with users, which I'm not...
14:16:41 Quit mud-rb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
14:16:59peturas long as you don't change your nick to UserEater....
14:17:20*GodEater shudders
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14:27:23B4gderanyone feels like taking a guess for the most loaded page on www.rockbox.org except for the front page?
14:28:02B4gderhttp://rockbox.haxx.se/twiki/bin/viewfile/Main/WpsIpodNano !
14:28:11LloreanReally?
14:28:23LloreanI would've guessed WpsIpodVideo, if anything
14:28:42B4gderthat's #6
14:29:10B4gderdownload/ being #3, RockboxExtras #4 and manuals #5
14:30:08*petur wonders what's #2
14:30:26dionoeathe WpsIpodNano wiki page ? :)
14:30:27B4gderfront page is #1, WpsIpodNano is #2
14:30:39peturah right
14:33:32linuxstbDo you have stats for the rockbox.zip files?
14:34:16B4gderI have only partial stats for them due to us just moving them
14:34:37B4gderroughly one week of data:
14:34:47B4gderipod video: >8000 downloads
14:35:00B4gderipod nano: 2600
14:35:05B4gdersansa 2200
14:35:12B4gdergigabeat 1100
14:35:18dionoeais that counting downloads on the mirrors ? or before mirrors existed ?
14:35:20B4gderh300 1000
14:35:26B4gderthat's from the build host
14:35:32B4gderbuild.rockbox.org
14:35:54B4gderof course lots of others are downloaded from the download servers
14:36:28peturso our user base is probably bigger than we think
14:36:49B4gderonly this piece is more than 15000 downloads
14:36:58peturin a week
14:37:04B4gderyes
14:37:06peturwow
14:37:21GodEaterI wonder how many of those are updates, and how many are new installs
14:37:25GodEaterno way to tell of course
14:37:53B4gderdionoea: have you checked what kind of traffic your rockbox download mirror gets?
14:38:09peturcan the stats tool give unique users?
14:38:12dionoeanot much ... let me check again
14:38:53B4gderpetur: it says ~2600 "visits" per day on build.rockbox.org
14:39:33B4gder22000 unique ones during that week
14:39:50dionoea4000 hits on the last 8 hours
14:40:59dionoeawe don't have web stats for the lighttpd server logs yet
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14:42:46dionoea15000 hits on the previous day
14:53:26dionoeahum, in fact that hit count is wrong ... looks like most hits i counted have rockbox.org as referer for the videolan logo on the hompage
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15:01:38peturbger! long time
15:02:15zirodaycan anyone help?, i have tried manaul and install via rbutil but i keep getting errors that my ipod is unsupported yet it is a 1st Gen iPod Nano
15:03:05*GodEater looks at linuxstb
15:03:42GodEaterziroday: how much storage space on it ?
15:03:47zirodaynever mind realised i needed ipodpatchre
15:03:59GodEaterrbutil has ipodpatcher built in
15:04:04*ziroday is sheepish for disturbing everyone again
15:04:20zirodayGodEater: it does?
15:04:23GodEaterdownloading ipodpatcher on it's own won't make a lot of difference
15:04:27GodEateryes it does
15:04:31zirodayGodEater: even the fiesty version
15:04:41GodEaterziroday: even that
15:04:59zirodayGodEater: how much space does it need to install?
15:04:59peturno harm trying though...
15:05:30GodEaterziroday: the bootloader doesn't need any free space at all as you'd see it
15:05:37GodEaterrockbox takes about, what 3.5M these days ?
15:05:54zirodaybut i cant even install the boot loader
15:06:34GodEaterziroday: well you could try ipodpatcher on it's own, as petur says - but I doubt it'll make any difference
15:06:37zirodayi ll try ipodpatcher
15:06:39GodEateryou're SURE it's a 1st Gen ?
15:06:48GodEateri.e. black/white front with a silver back
15:08:03zirodayyeah
15:08:10zirodayits definitly 1st gen
15:08:28zirodayi coudnt get ipodlinux bootloader to work either
15:08:46GodEaterwhat does it say ?
15:09:47zirodayBootloader add [err] failed to add bootlaoder
15:09:50ziroday*loader
15:10:11GodEaterwhat does it identify your ipod as ?
15:10:24zirodaywinpod 1st gen
15:10:36ziroday[INFO] Ipod found - 1st Generation Nano ("winpod") - /dev/sdd
15:11:09GodEaterthat definitely needs linuxstb's attention then =/
15:11:25PaulJamlittle offtopic question: is 155 EUR a resonable price for a Toshiba MK4007GAL ? or are there cheaper alternatives (from germany)?
15:11:38peturthat's expensive
15:11:50markunPaulJam: is it used?
15:11:50zirodayGodEater: anything else?
15:12:28Lloreanpetur: It's a single platter, though, I believe
15:12:31GodEaterziroday: I can't think of anything - linuxstb is ipodpatcher's author - he might have more ideas.
15:12:35peturoh is it?
15:12:36zirodayGodEater: gtg thanks for trying
15:12:41PaulJammarkun: no, according to the description on ebay it is new.
15:12:48Lloreanpetur: GAL is the single platter, I believe.
15:12:56Llorean4006GAH is the 40gb dual platter
15:13:14bgerLlorean: yeah, u're right
15:13:19amiconn155EUR for a MK4007GAL is expensive in comparison to what I paid for my MK8007GAH, but it's the only offer I know of atm
15:13:24*petur shuts up
15:13:37bgerhi all btw
15:13:39amiconnGA_L_ == single platter
15:13:41markunhi bger
15:13:50bgerL - Low profile ?
15:13:53bgerH - high ..
15:14:57bgeramiconn: how much did you pay for the 8007GAH ? Sorry if i'm asking impolite questions
15:15:39amiconn~160EUR including shipment. It was used, but working perfectly (and zeroed)
15:15:52bgeramiconn: ah, that's a deal!
15:15:54markunpetur: how much did you pay?
15:16:08peturcan't remember but it was more
15:16:34peturstupid ebay history is gone after 60 days
15:17:22bgeram i right that all newer toshiba's 1.8" hdd are with ZIF socket?
15:17:37bgerxx08,xx09 ..
15:17:38*petur checks paypal account
15:18:46peturI payed 224 euro for a new MK8007GAH
15:18:59bgerpetur: new one ? or ?
15:19:07petur_new_
15:19:18bgero!
15:19:38bgerso, ebay ?
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15:20:56amiconnpetur: That's rougly the same as the german ebay shop takes for the MK8007GAH (the one that offers the MK4007GAL for ~155EUR)
15:20:57peturthere are 2 available on ebay from eurotecc (not where I bought), cost + shipping is identical to what I paid (my value I gave was cost+shipping too)
15:21:08peturamiconn: yes
15:21:26petur214,95 euro w/o shipping
15:23:02peturheh, that h340 from Italy got sold for 180 euro
15:23:09dionoeaB4gder: i'll put daily stats on videolan.org/~videolan/rockbox/ (updated daily at 7:42 AM paris time)
15:23:35B4gdercool, thanks
15:26:23Nico_PB4gder: do you think it would be possible to provide hosting for git repos ?
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15:26:40B4gdersure
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15:27:41Nico_PI've been using git-svn for a bit and it works very nicely
15:28:49Nico_Phow would it work ?
15:28:54*GodEater is just doing a git-svn fetch himself
15:28:59Nico_P... the hosting I mean
15:29:03B4gderhah, you tell me ;-)
15:29:23B4gderafaik, it is mostly a metafile that points out somewhere else
15:29:37linuxstbziroday: I don't understand your problem with ipodpatcher. 1) Does the Apple firmware still boot fine on your ipod (if not, fix that first); 2) What is the exact message ipodpatcher displays?
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15:31:27Nico_PB4gder: maybe this could be helpful : http://wiki.u32.net/index.php?title=Git/publishing
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15:35:52B4gderthat answers some questions yes
15:37:17B4gderI'm curious though how the content is provided
15:38:02B4gderI mean pushed to the repo
15:38:24GodEatergit push is over ssh
15:38:27GodEaterI believe
15:38:30Nico_PI was thinking of an "official" repo tracking the SVN one and then hosting reops for people... I think that means the repo data is on the server and the "owner" can push to it
15:39:04B4gderGodEater: so a local ssh-able account would be needed?
15:39:23GodEaterI would imagine so :)
15:39:26B4gderok
15:39:42B4gderNico_P: and with "tracking" you mean it should simply be the git version of the svn tree?
15:39:42GodEaterthat link I posted this morning had a few more details on it
15:39:50Nico_Pyes
15:42:31GodEaterB4gder: what size is the entire svn repository (incl. history all the way back to r0) ?
15:43:16B4gderthe svn/rockbox svn repo dir is 229MB
15:44:20GodEaterwell there goes one of git's claims then!
15:45:08GodEater556M after using git-svn to grab it here
15:45:12peturgo tell LinusT and get slammed
15:45:26*GodEater isn't brave enough
15:45:31B4gder:-)
15:45:43Nico_PGodEater: have you repacked the repo ?
15:45:49peturpeople who eat god ought to be brave enough :p
15:45:50*GodEater looks blank
15:46:19Nico_Pgit repack -d
15:46:40*GodEater runs that
15:47:31GodEaterNico_P: what did yours come down to then ?
15:47:42Nico_PI only have a few revs
15:47:47GodEaterah
15:47:53*GodEater got all 13728
15:47:59GodEatertook bloody ages
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15:48:42Nico_Pthat's why an official git mirror for the svn repo would be nice, we'd just have to clone it
15:49:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:49:27Nico_PGodEater: also when looking at the size, be sure to only check the .git dir
15:49:31*GodEater had to write a wrapper for git-svn fetch because it kept falling over
15:49:51Nico_Pgit svn rebase does all the work
15:50:59GodEateranyway - you can clone from me when I'm done if you like Nico_P - if I can work out how to allow you access
15:53:29*Nico_P just made his first commit with git svn :)
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15:55:32GodEaterwoo!!!
15:55:56GodEatershame dan_a isn't around - I got the impression he was a bit of a git wizard
15:57:42GodEatergit repack on the whole repo is a bit cpu intensive!
15:58:51Nico_PI can imagine that :)
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16:00
16:00:39GodEater89423 objects...
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16:04:09GodEater.git = 75M ;)
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16:05:58Nico_Pnice
16:06:05GodEatervery nice indeed :)
16:08:07*GodEater runs gitk −−all
16:09:33Nico_Pdo you have branches ?
16:09:58GodEatergodeater.cream.org/gitk_rockbox.png">http://godeater.cream.org/gitk_rockbox.png
16:10:34Nico_Papparently not :)
16:10:52GodEatershould I have ?
16:11:26preglowwhat's up with this git dealing?
16:11:27Nico_Pno reason, but I think gitk −−all is most impressive with a few branches
16:11:31GodEater git-svn init -t tags -b branches -T trunk svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox <−− what I used
16:11:49GodEaterah - well they won't appear unless there WERE branches in the first place right ?
16:11:53GodEaterI've not created any of my own yet
16:11:55Nico_Pyes
16:12:10Nico_PI think there are a few branches in the early history
16:12:31GodEaterI'll scroll down, see if I can find them
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16:13:25GodEaterah - RIGHT at the bottom
16:13:33GodEaterwhich were created by cvs2svn it seems
16:13:40Nico_Ppreglow: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GitVersionControl
16:15:04GodEaterNico_P: refresh the picture link
16:15:33Nico_P:)
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16:24:10preglowlooks smoth
16:24:12preglowsmooth <-
16:24:23preglowi really don't care what we use, as long as i don't have to do any work on supporting it :>
16:24:25amiconnpreglow: I hope to find some time for experimenting with the pp clock settings tonight
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16:24:54preglowamiconn: nice
16:24:56preglowbrb
16:25:47freshminthey how do i install rockbox on my h120 with linux?
16:25:49amiconnIiuc, fixing that might solve both the hangs when switching clock on pp5020 and help saving power
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16:26:13amiconnPP5020 and PP5022 are *not* 100% register compatible
16:27:56freshmintthere is only a firmware exe patcher how do i get a patching program for linux?
16:28:15dionoeacheck the rbutil wiki page
16:30:15linuxstbfreshmint: Or the IriverBoot wiki page - you can use the mkboot utility (along with descramble and scramble). They're in the "tools" directory in the Rockbox source.
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16:35:29freshmintlinuxstb: what is this descramble tool can i download it somewhere?
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16:36:49notsidoes anyone know if u can install rockbox on a rio carbon?
16:37:02markunfreshmint: it comes with the rockbox sources and you need to compile it
16:37:16markunnotsi: it doesn't work
16:37:23notsinuts.. i dont know how to do that ... thanks
16:37:27notsi:(
16:37:33markunall supported players are listed on the homepage
16:37:41notsithe damn thing is stuck on low vol
16:37:58notsiyeap i saw .. but i came here with hope for something costem
16:38:07markuncostem?
16:38:25dionoealow volume is nice if you don't want to be deaf later :)
16:38:27notsimy spelling sucks perhaps its costom?
16:38:36Lloreancustom
16:38:51notsithats the one .. sorry for my spelling
16:39:06markundionoea: doesn't it depend one the headphones anyway?
16:39:40freshmintmarkun: do i have to compile it with the bootloader?
16:39:43dionoeayeah, some help you become deaf faster i guess :)
16:40:28notsithanks
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16:40:50markunfreshmint: I'm not sure what you mean. Did you ever compile rockbox?
16:41:05freshmintmarkun: no not jet
16:42:21markunfreshmint: if you are interested in the source: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/tools/descramble.c?view=markup
16:42:59freshmintdo i have to compile it with a C compiler?
16:43:09markunyes
16:43:21markunwhat are you trying to do anyway?
16:43:34dionoeainstall rockbox on his h120
16:43:39freshmintmarkun: get rockbox on a iHP120 with linux
16:44:11peturrun the patch tool in wine?
16:44:25GodEaterthat sounds like a recipe for disaster!
16:44:26markunpetur: or rbutil?
16:44:50*petur never tried it - also have win box
16:44:54markunfreshmint: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxUtility
16:45:08markunpetur: never tried it myself either
16:45:22preglowamiconn: but you wouldn't expect it to be a key in the major power issue on pp targets, no?
16:47:03peturdoes IPL have a similar power issue or do they just not care?
16:47:48GodEateriPL same issues AFAIK - they just don't care
16:48:21preglowipl does even worse than rockbox
16:48:28amiconnpreglow: It might be such a key
16:48:32preglowno clock switching, second core spinlocks all the time
16:48:38amiconnipl runs at 75MHz all the time afaik
16:48:54PaulJamdid someone already tried to measure the chip temperatures (like it was done for h300) to identify the chip the t drains the power?
16:49:12dionoeaeverything is in the same chip on pp targets i think
16:49:39PaulJamoh
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16:52:11preglownot everuthing, but almost
16:57:48freshmintmarkun: the utility works fine
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16:58:20freshmintmarkun: i started doom but the firmware kind of hang up how can i quit the application?
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17:01:06The-CompilerHi there
17:02:08PaulJamfreshmint: if nothing else helps, the h100 has a reset button at the bottom of the device.
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17:19:45The-Compileris there a rss-feed for the forums?
17:21:08 Quit kubiixaka ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
17:23:05The-Compileror are there any other rss-feeds? (I have already the SVN and the tracker)
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17:30:13*petur reads http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=118296441702631 and falls of his chair... rush to market didn't do thos intel chips any good
17:32:11freshmintmarkun: still here?
17:32:51dionoeapetur: most other chips probably have similar bugs. They're getting so complex that it's becoming hard to make them perfectly safe.
17:33:26peturtime to debug more before releasing I'd say
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17:39:53freshmintmarkun: i got a problem...
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17:40:00freshmintcan u help me plz
17:40:25peturfreshmint: don't limit yourself to one dev here if you need help
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17:41:36freshmintpetur: well as soon as i start doom or some othe plugins the scroll field begins rushing through my entries and doesnt stop are ther some settings wrong?
17:42:03peturscroll field?
17:42:24freshmintpetur: i mean the bar that points on the current entrie
17:42:37n1shahaha "We anticipate that version 3.0 will be released in the relatively near future." (from the ArchosFAQ page in the wiki) :-)
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17:43:17peturso you say that if you click on a plugin to start, the selector bar starts scrolling
17:43:21amiconnpetur: cpu errata are a common thing, not only for intel
17:43:58amiconnThe most prominent bug so far was the Pentium 1 FDIV bug afaik
17:46:09PaulJampetur, freshmint: there is a forum topic describing a similar behaviour: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?&topic=11081.0
17:46:25*GodEater remembers the FDIV bug
17:46:34GodEaterI got a replacement CPU out of Dell for it :)
17:48:24freshmintPaulJam: how can i download an older release with the rbutil?
17:49:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:57:13PaulJamfreshmint: i don't know how it works with rbutil, but you can download old dayly builds manually here: http://www.rockbox.org/dl.cgi?bin=h120
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18:00:37n1swow, the Set time/date screen doesn't work very well with a large font...
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18:06:34freshmintwell i found what i needed
18:06:47freshmintnow things work rockbox is really cool!
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18:07:26PaulJamoh no. i seems as if the rockboy performance became worse on h300 with the sound improvements from a few days ago.
18:08:21LloreanPaulJam: That tends to happen, if you improve quality, you sacrifice speed.
18:08:41LloreanI'm sure if someone's interested enough, more optimizations will happen. I can't imagine it's as optimized as it can get.
18:09:46amiconnI think it decreases sound quality and speed
18:10:04Lloreanamiconn: Well then, that's a problem indeed.
18:10:25Nico_PI love the rotation ;)
18:10:30amiconngameboy sound surely isn't 44.1kHz, so it upsamples unnecessarily
18:10:49amiconn(on targets which can set sample frequency, e.g. irivers)
18:10:57PaulJamunfortunately kkurbjun has one of those superfast gigabeats now.
18:11:50LloreanPaulJam: I don't recall him doing much assembly optimization in the past anyway.
18:11:55markunamiconn: do you know what it should be? 11025Hz?
18:12:10LloreanBesides, if you want *good* gameboy games, it's a $5 investment
18:12:28LloreanIn fact, surely you already own a Gameboy, otherwise why did you purchase the games you're legally testing the emulator with. :-P
18:12:43thenightsuperfast gigabeats?
18:13:10preglow11khz is definitely too little for gameboy
18:13:12Lloreanthenight: Gigabeats are a good deal faster than the other players Rockbox runs on.
18:13:21PaulJamwell, i have a gameboy, but it has a broken screen.
18:13:38thenightI have a gigabeat s :( I don't know enough about coding to help though, even though I am a computer science minor
18:14:29markunthenight: when the really hard part is over there will be enough smaller things to work on
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18:15:15thenightmarkun: I am going to try to get my roomate to help, He is an Embedded Systems Major.
18:15:38 Quit petur ("work->home")
18:17:37markunthenight: does he have a Gigabeat S?
18:17:52thenightmarkun: Well, I have mine :P
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18:22:26markunI wonder what kind of arguments he will use to convince someone who doesn't own a DAP to port rockbox to it..
18:24:21Llorean"Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease"
18:24:27dionoea:)
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18:39:33diotaleviHey, I think I've half-bricked my iPod. It's a v5, 60gb. The battery ran all the way down and it is at the "battery very low. please wait" screen and alternately booting when it charges enough.
18:39:54diotaleviI start booting the original firmware and it just reboots after a moment.
18:40:30diotaleviIt's been running fine for months. It's just that I ran out of battery.
18:40:34dionoeajust let it charge
18:41:09diotalevisure. I did.
18:41:12diotaleviovernight.
18:41:18diotalevino change.
18:41:18dionoeaah
18:42:10dionoeamight be a cable problem or something. Did you try charging it on someone else's computer with another usb cable ?
18:42:12diotalevisomehow, this thing doesn't seem to know how to charge the battery once it hits the hard drive and then it doesn't seem to have enough juice to boot up.
18:42:14dionoea(wild guess)
18:42:23diotalevinope. I didn't try that.
18:43:52diotalevithe cable has worked fine for months though. it's like, nothing changed except I *really* ran out of juice.
18:44:13diotaleviI guess it could have just decided to go flakey.
18:44:47dionoeai've already seen my ipod do the reboot cycle like 2 or 3 times but it always ended up by booting correcly
18:45:21diotaleviI've seen this before but I didn't realize it could get so bad that it just wouldn't boot at all.
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18:46:04diotaleviI briefly opened it up last night to see if I could disconnect the harddrive. It... looked more fiddly than I oculd handle at that moment.
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18:50:55markunOh no! The Zune-Linux forum is still down!
18:52:02preglowhow is this possible!
18:52:13preglowhow utterly unlikely this seems to me!
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18:52:25preglowi wonder if a donation might help remedy the situation!
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18:58:08haemmyhi
18:58:17diotaleviso if the bootloader is sitting at the "loading rockbox..." screen on my ipod, is it charging the battery?
18:58:21 Nick diotalevi is now known as jjore (i=josh@c-24-19-33-52.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
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19:07:58amiconnmarkun: Irivers used 11025Hz in rockboy before, with better performance
19:08:53amiconnkkurbjun changed it to 44100Hz, just because *some* targets can't change sample frequency (yet). I'd think this should only be done for those targets
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19:12:56markunamiconn: me too
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19:19:32Nico_Pany objections about FS #7361 ?
19:20:24 Quit freshmint (Remote closed the connection)
19:23:35linuxstbNico_P: Do you know why it's "ID3V2_BUFF_SIZE" in id3.h and "ID3V2_BUFF_SIZE<<1" in tagcache.h ?
19:24:49Nico_Plinuxstb: in tagchache.h it's "MAX_PATH*2" that's replaced with "ID3V2_BUFF_SIZE<<1"
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19:25:19linuxstbYes, but why?
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19:25:29Nico_P<<1 will multiply by two, right ?
19:25:31linuxstbHow are the two buffers related?
19:26:06linuxstbYes, it will. My question is really why is one twice the size of the other?
19:26:24Nico_Pyeah it's strange and I'm not sure it's right
19:26:50Nico_PIIUC, id3v2buf is the whole ID3v2 buffer ?
19:27:06Nico_Pso having tags twice that size seems wrong
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19:27:40linuxstbI thought it contained the text from every tag - so the char* points in the mp3entry struct point into the id3v2 buf.
19:28:14linuxstb^I meant "char* pointers"
19:28:33Nico_Pthey all point to a specific string in the id3v2buf ?
19:29:29Nico_P...so the total length of all the tags concatenated has to be < ID3V2_BUFF_SIZE
19:30:35linuxstbYes, that's how I understand it. They probably also use the id3v1 buf as well...
19:30:48linuxstbSo it's ID3V2_BUFF_SIZE+4*92
19:31:05 Part vcardenas
19:31:07linuxstbAt least, the vorbis comments parser seems to use both buffers.
19:31:27Nico_POK so ID3V2_BUFF_SIZE<<1 is definitely wrong
19:31:38jjorehow is having the slider locked on my ipod supposed to help when I'm trying to charge and I don't have enough juice to boot up?
19:31:43Nico_Pbut the first hunk is quite trivial and seems fine to me
19:32:47linuxstbjjore: Because that causes the Rockbox bootloader to start the Apple firmware, and the Apple firmware probably deals with the case of a very low battery better than Rockbox does.
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19:33:03jjoreoooh.
19:33:15jjoreno, that doesn't do it on the bootloader I've got.
19:33:24jjoreat least now I know why people say that.
19:33:25jjorethanks.
19:33:43jjoreI have version 20060126-1839.
19:34:07linuxstbI'm surprised Rockbox actually works with that bootloader - are you using a recent version of Rockbox?
19:34:27jjoreI'm using the version that was current when I installed it.
19:34:46jjorethe newer version as of a month go was fubar so I didn't keep it.
19:34:53jjorethere wasn't a newer bootloader.
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19:35:10linuxstbThe newer version didn't work because you didn't upgrade the bootloader.
19:35:10sa2big floppy donkey dick
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19:35:22jjoreoops. network is dying for a moment.
19:35:31jjorethere wasn't a new bootloader.
19:35:39jjoreI looked.
19:35:44Lloreanjjore: You didn't look in the right place then
19:35:44linuxstbWhere?
19:36:01LloreanDid you check the updated installation instructions in the manual?
19:36:11linuxstbThe whole ipod installation process has changed dramatically since January 2006.
19:36:14jjoreOh.
19:36:23jjoreI just did what worked last time.
19:36:45jjoreI read the directions the first time I installed it.
19:37:27 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
19:38:54jjoreI thought it slightly odd that the bootloader had not changed but also figured that maybe such things didn't really need to change often.
19:38:57linuxstbYou basically just need to download the new "ipodpatcher" program, run it, and select "i" to install.
19:39:25jjoreI may, if and when the thing is able to boot up again.
19:39:35linuxstbNone of the nonsense with ipod_fw that you were forced to do the first time.
19:40:04Lloreanjjore: I'm somewhat curious how you decided the bootloader hadn't changed. The IpodBoot page, which is what the old install instructions are, have the new instructions
19:40:11Lloreanjjore: Where is the old page, so that we can see it taken down?
19:40:28jjoreLlorean, i probably just went looking for the tarball.
19:40:40LloreanWhat tarball?
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19:42:49jjoreuh, well I just found http://build.rockbox.org/dist/build-ipodvideo64mb/rockbox.zip off the main page. I couldn't tell you where I might have looked for the bootloader.
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19:43:14LloreanWell it'd be quite helpful if you could figure it out, so we can make sure old instructions aren't posted somewhere.
19:44:37*jjore was also mislead by how easy it is to just unpack the tarball on the ipod.
19:46:50linuxstbNico_P: Thinking about FS #7361, I'm not convinced the two #defines should be combined - one is the total size of the combined tags (used in the mp3entry struct), and one is the maximum size of an individual tag in the database.
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19:53:23GodEater_linuxstb: since I've so far singularly failed to make it over to the Holborn area and find a suitable pub for everyone to gather in - shall we just arrange to meet Febs and the others at his hotel and wander around from there ?
19:54:21*GodEater_ imagines the hotel probably has a bar
19:56:10Nico_Plinuxstb: I agree. the second hunk (in tagcache.h) shouldn't be there
19:56:40Nico_Pbut I like the first one, even though it's a very trivial change
19:57:01Nico_Pbbs
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19:58:47n1sDoes anyone have any
19:59:00n1sgood ideas on how to make the set time/date
19:59:25amiconn?
19:59:43n1s screen nicer with a large font, I will probably have to rewrite the drawing for it anyway
19:59:55*n1s hits enter too often :/
20:00
20:00:25n1samiconn: If you select a large font it will be drawn ouside the screen
20:00:40n1sit being some of the text in that screen
20:01:35n1salso it does the ugly color inversion on the selected item, to get rid of that I will probably have to rewrite a bit of drawing stuff for that screen
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20:10:03jzillaHello friends, I bought an Ipod yesterday. 30gb Video. Running Linux as my OS. Was just wondering... is it worth it to install Rockbox on it?
20:10:35n1sjzilla: why don't you try it out? :-)
20:10:48linuxstbTry it and see - it's easily uninstalled, or you can just dual-boot your ipod between the Apple firmware and Rockbox.
20:10:56jzillaI really want too, but I'm scared.
20:11:03jzillaNothing to be afraid of?
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20:11:23markunjzilla: you don't have to try it if you are scared
20:11:32jzillaok you talked me into it.
20:11:35linuxstbjzilla: IMO, it's as safe as installing Linux on your PC...
20:11:36markunwhat are you expecting from rockbox?
20:11:49 Quit haemmy ()
20:12:04jzillawell, currently i haev no way of using the video/photo aspects of the ipod
20:12:12jzillafrom what i understand, rockbox lets me do that
20:12:36linuxstbRockbox won't help with video (it has poor video playback on the ipod video), but it has a nice jpeg viewer.
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20:14:10jzillaSo basicly, the best way to use video on it - would be to use iTunes to put it on there with Apple's firmware?
20:14:38linuxstbI thought the latest version of gtkpod could handle video. But I never use the Apple firmware, so have never used gtkpod.
20:15:31jzillaI'll look into it. Thanks.
20:15:48linuxstbI just use my ipod for music, and Rockbox is great for that - I just copy the files (in whatever format they already are) to the ipod's disk and don't have to worry about maintaining a database.
20:16:31*petur starts to develop some skill in replacing h340 batteries :/
20:16:39jzillaAs far as music goes - Amarok seems to work flawlesslly.
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20:17:31amiconnlinuxstb: I guess rockbox has better video playback on the video than it has on the H300
20:19:09linuxstbamiconn: That's not saying much though...
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20:19:29linuxstbChecking the wiki page, the table says the H300 can manage 11fps fullscreen and the Video 10fps.
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20:20:53peturamiconn: my new 2200mAh battery is 0.5mm thicker but 1mm smaller so it fits quit nicely. Also markes for iriver, and connector polarity was fine. Let's hope it lives a bit longer. The company seems decent (http://www.cameronsino.net)
20:20:57linuxstbBut yes. at the same resolution, the video performs much better - e.g. 224x176 is 11fps on the H300 and 20fps on the Video.
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20:22:10*amiconn wonders why petur doesn't stick with the stock battery after his bad experience
20:22:17amiconnOr was that defective as well?
20:22:29peturlow capacity
20:22:54Slasherihmm, my ionity 1900 mAh has worked great a long time in my H140
20:23:57markunmy 2100 too
20:24:19peturSlasheri: short question: I see that Scanning Disk splash from time to time when booting. I thought it was done in background, so when does that splash come?
20:24:48amiconnI had that happen multiple times when shutting down without stopping playback first
20:25:04amiconnWent back to my old habit to stop playback first, and its gone
20:25:23Slasheripetur: it should come only after dircache has failed. That usually happens when you copy a lot of new files on the player at once and dircache reserve buffer can't handle them all
20:25:43Slasheriamiconn: hmm.. that still happens?
20:25:50peturI do little copying
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20:26:59Slasheripetur: that "scanning disk" message just means that the required buffer size is not known and must be checked
20:27:13peturweird
20:27:37peturanyway, gtg... back in an hour I hope
20:29:23amiconnSlasheri: Yes, had that last week
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20:30:48Slasheriinteresting..
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20:31:54amiconnIt doesn't happen every time, but maybe in ~30% of all cases
20:32:22amiconnAnd there's still the other problem which is reproducable 100% reliably
20:33:28amiconnA while ago you fixed the background scan to allow shutdown before the scan is complete
20:33:48amiconnBut if you shut down this way, the scan at the next boot will be a foreground scan
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20:35:41preglowthe dircache scan acts a bit glitchy for me too
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21:01:52tzafrir_homehi, I'm looking for a relatively cheap (sub 100$) device on which to run RockBox or something similar. Where do I start looking?
21:02:09tzafrir_homeAnything recommended?
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21:02:51n1samiconn: if I draw text with lcd_puts() when drawmode is set to DRMODE_BG|DRMODE_INVERSEVID on top of a rectangle filled with lcd_fillrect() when drawmode is set to DRMODE_SOLID, shouldn't I get text in BG colour on a rect in FG colour?, I get regular FG-text on BG...
21:03:23n1stzafrir_home: I guess the only rockbox target you can get new at that price is a sansa e200
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21:09:54pixelmaI think a gigabeat F could also be in that price span
21:11:17alienbiker99if you get it on ebay
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21:14:21HP_Ownerhelp! my iPod Mini 2nd gen froze when trying to install. Stuck at "OK to Disconnect" HELP!!!
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21:14:35bluebrotherwhat's the problem there?
21:14:45bluebrotherjust reboot it like the installation instructions tell ...
21:15:03pixelmahe already quit...
21:15:12bluebrother(make sure you safely disconnected first)
21:15:15alienbiker99ahaha
21:15:25bluebrotherhe did?
21:15:41alienbiker99yes
21:16:00bluebrotherah, seems he has some kind of network problems. Only noticed him coming in.
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21:16:24markunXavierGr: quite some fires in your country!
21:16:26bluebrotherbut I was too late to notice he already was in before ;-)
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21:16:34amiconnOK to disconnect means it's safe to disconnect...
21:16:46advcomp2019is there any news on the sandisk sansa e200r
21:17:20*amiconn doesn't use 'safely disconnect', but relies on write caching being disabled for ums devices
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21:21:13advcomp2019is there any news with rockbox on the sandisk sansa e200r... there has not been an update for like 2 weeks
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21:22:17Domonokyadvcomp2019: no news, no updates :-)
21:22:56n1samiconn: does lcd_puts() even care about drawmode?
21:23:12advcomp2019ok thanks
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21:24:31amiconnn1s: yes
21:25:05n1shmm, then ther's something fundamental about this that I don't understand... :-/
21:25:58n1samiconn: if I want to draw text with inversed BG/FG how do I do that?
21:27:02amiconnJust use DRMODE_SOLID|DRMODE_INVERSEVID or DRMODE_FG|DRMODE_INVERSEVID
21:27:22amiconn(depending on whether the area is cleared before)
21:29:44Buschelpreglow: you there?
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21:32:10preglowBuschel: yeah
21:32:28Buschelpreglow: ahh, there he is :)
21:32:30 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
21:32:31preglowindeed he is
21:32:57Buschelany news regarding musepack patch? any further comments, wishoes or questions?
21:33:01Buschel*whishes
21:33:21preglowhmm
21:33:24preglowi'll have a quick look again
21:34:58preglowwhat's the point of introducing the MPC_OUTPUT_FORMAT type?
21:36:08BuschelMPC_OUTPUT_FORMAT must always be int32, when setting the decoder to float the output was also done in float. this confused the last stage (dsp.c) and lead to weired noisy output
21:36:55Buschelso, at least a bugfix that repairs floating point decoding for musepack
21:36:57preglowhrmr
21:37:13preglowi actually think we do want the codec to output floats when that day comes
21:37:21preglowsince dsp will also be in floating point
21:37:38preglowit won't work now, but now we don't have any floating point targets either
21:37:53Buschelwell, the current implemenation of dsp.c will not work with floats
21:38:00preglowindeed not, that needs to be adapted
21:38:30preglowbut yeah, when we do get an fpu target, it probably will be fixed to work with floats, which makes integer output a bit unnecessary
21:39:04amiconnFloating point dsps?
21:39:06preglowat least i can't think of a reason why we would want dsp.c to be fixed point when codecs are floating point
21:39:11preglowamiconn: gigabeat s, for example
21:39:27amiconnNote that I don't know many dsp cores. The mas core is a fixed point dsp
21:39:30amiconn(20 bit)
21:39:46preglowmost dsp cores are fixed point too
21:39:56preglowsharc being the most popylar exception, which does both equally well
21:39:57Buschelwell, afaic all other codecs do int32-output as well.
21:40:17preglowBuschel: even when configured to process floats? i don't really know, haven't checked
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21:40:38Buschelmaybe solution could be to set some new define in the target-config to set the decoder output format
21:40:47preglowBuschel: it's not a major thing, really, it's just that when sv8-musepack comes, i'll probably be the one to merge it, so want to just eliminate all unnecessary changes i can :)
21:41:07Buschelhehe, will be lots of fun i guess :)
21:41:37preglowi'll try to make the musepack people merge most of your changes anyway
21:41:40preglowlike the dct coef stuff
21:41:55preglowbut i'm still not sure there's a point in having input format != output format
21:42:41preglowfloating point processing is something i wanted you to preserve in the codec in case we want to support it in the future, it's not something that's supposed to work right now
21:42:56Buschelhmm, at least the last stage (preparation for DAC) should do the conversion to int_xy
21:43:05preglowhence, the output format choice isn't done yet
21:43:13preglowbut i'm fairly certain we'll want it to be float too
21:43:21Buschelat least the decoder works fine now on iPOD and PCSim, if set to float
21:43:31preglowcool, how slow on ipod? ;)
21:43:51Buscheli didn't measure the performance, just the output
21:44:02preglowit should have been really, really slow, heh
21:44:07preglowno fpu on the ipod
21:44:34n1samiconn: this is what I tried http://pastebin.ca/594145 it draws the letter in the regular FG color inside a box of regular bgcolor that stretches out to the right of the fg rect...
21:44:39 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:44:55Buschelbtw, i found a little bug in dsp.c which doesn't do correct rounding on output samples (32bit -> 16bit). we loose some accuracy through this and add some dc-bias to the output
21:45:07preglowyeah, i saw
21:45:11preglowi forgot that patch, actually
21:45:27Buschelquite impressive, if the output-file is compared to reference decoder
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21:45:41*preglow checks if jhMikeS commented on his asm loops
21:46:19preglowseem's he's got some code for it, yes
21:46:43preglowbtw, i think you have added some bias where it's not needed
21:46:45amiconnn1s: Yes, lcd_puts() stretches to the far right (unlike lcd_putsxy()). That's intended
21:47:01preglowif you check out the dithering routine, you'll see that bias is already added, no need to add it again
21:47:02*amiconn wonders why the inversion would refuse to work
21:47:07Buschelthe dc-bias is nothing else than correct rounding
21:47:18preglowyeah, know
21:47:28preglowwe use round to negative infinity now
21:47:42preglownever really thought about it, but it's true
21:47:42Buschelis there any chance to test the dithering output via test_codec?
21:48:14preglownope
21:48:47linuxstbpreglow: It could be added though?
21:48:50preglowsure
21:48:51amiconnn1s: Umm, I remembered wrong. lcd_puts() resets the drawmode to DRMODE_SOLID
21:49:10Buschelfrom reading the code of the dithering I was not usre if the amplitude of the added noise is correct for all codecs and shifts
21:49:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:49:24Buschel*sure
21:49:41amiconnIf you want inverted text with the line wise output functions, you need lcd_puts_style(x, y, text, STYLE_INVERT)
21:49:57preglowBuschel: i'm not actually certain myself, the code is from some other project, i think
21:50:08preglowBuschel: the code was unused in the rockbox code, so i just cleaned it up and added the setting
21:50:25preglowBuschel: the dithering noise used is highpass triangle pdf, and i don't really know what amplitude that's supposed to be added at
21:50:36preglowi know triangle pdf noise is supposed to be added with an amplitude of 1 lsb
21:51:07preglowi think that's what's used in the rockbox code too
21:51:14amiconnn1s: sorry for the confusion...
21:52:30Buschelpreglow: in the comments there is something written like "took from libmad", but libmad uses other shifts afaic
21:53:27n1samiconn: ah ok, it woks fine with lcd_putsxy :-)
21:53:43preglowBuschel: no, it's taken from coolplayer, i think
21:54:40Buschelpreglow: just checked -> you're right
21:55:13 Quit pondlife ("disconnected has pondlife")
21:55:41preglowwith what, the coolplayer part or the noise amplitude part?
21:55:43linuxstbI think I remember that - IIRC the Rockbox codec was based on a libmad example program, and that example program took the code from coolplayer.
21:56:07Buschelahem, the coolplayer part
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21:58:04preglowseems jhMikeS patch only adds bias correctly for 16 bit output
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22:02:50Buschelhmm, maybe misunderstanding... 1<<(output_scale-1) must be added before >>scale
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22:08:45preglowdeed, which is the same as adding 0.5 to the signal before truncating
22:09:06preglowso you get round to nearest instead of round to negative infinity
22:09:16Buschelyep
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22:21:47preglowBuschel: but no, not much wrong with the musepack patc
22:21:48preglowh
22:28:10Buschelpreglow: that's fine. so, let's wait until the merge has been done by the musepack community.
22:28:58Buschelgotta leave now, had a long long day at work and have to get some sleep now :o)
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22:36:07jhMikeSpreglow: say say?
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22:40:58preglowjhMikeS: just talking about the correct rounding in dsp patch
22:41:30dionoeawhat's the syntax in commit messages to refer to a flyspray entry ? #<the number> ?
22:41:33 Quit billytwowilly (Remote closed the connection)
22:41:35preglowjhMikeS: your asm code seems to assume the output depth is 16 bits, but maybe that's a valid assumption...
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22:41:57jhMikeSit is from the sample output to the pcm buffer
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22:43:09jhMikeSbut that's true of the non-asm functions as well
22:43:37pregloworly
22:43:54XavierGrmarkun: yes indeed :( though not in my area. Very hot summers like these can put as on fire for days (not to mention bloody arsonists)
22:44:00dionoeaor is it FS<the number> ?
22:44:12preglowdionoea: FS #xxxxx
22:44:25dionoeathx
22:45:08jhMikeSpreglow: ummm...I'm not following here. The DSP output routines were meant for output into the hardware depth no?
22:45:25preglowjhMikeS: myeah
22:45:52jhMikeSok...so why wouldn't I assume that on cf the output should be 16-bits?
22:45:52preglowor at least the pcm buffer depth, but yeah, that should be the same
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22:46:15preglowjhMikeS: *shrug*, because we one day might want to support 20 bit output?
22:46:28preglownothing we do right now
22:46:42preglowall platforms are 16 bit now
22:46:46jhMikeSwell...a different output function would be used then
22:47:03preglowyeah, sounds sensible
22:47:38jhMikeSand then I'd be pissed cause I'd have to write it and deal with twice as much data with more complicated code :)
22:47:44preglowheh
22:47:45preglowindeed
22:48:02preglowyou won't see me urge for more than sixteen bits, at least you can count on that
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22:51:34jhMikeSNot sure I see the point with the DACs being what they are
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22:53:15preglowdeed
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22:55:41jhMikeSthe only one I know that will actually pay attention to more than 16-bits is the AS3514 - 18bit
22:56:29preglowpay attention to as in how? does it have the snr to deal with it?
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22:57:57preglowsingle malt time
22:58:07preglowsaratoga: ahoy, any progress?
22:59:35advcomp2019i have another question... is anyone going to make a rockbox for the zen v or the zen v plus
22:59:55preglowperhaps
22:59:57low_lightanyone look at FS #7345 :)
22:59:57jhMikeS94dB
23:00
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23:00:21preglowthat's enough for what, 16.3 bits? :)
23:00:36preglow15.7, i mea
23:00:37preglown
23:00:42jhMikeSanalog blocks are 100dB
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23:01:40jhMikeSwhat "A weighted" refer to?
23:02:29 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:03:00preglowa filtering happening before measuremen to compensate for fletcher-munson curves
23:03:00preglowhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighting_curve
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23:04:09Widget'lo
23:05:49saratogapreglow: I looked through the init code for the codec, and suprisingly it all seems to work
23:06:03saratogathe first 16000 fixed point ops all give identical results too
23:06:11saratogait really just seems to get one or two values slightly wrong
23:06:14saratoganot sure why yet
23:06:29saratogaunfortunately, I'm moving this weekend, so i've been busy with that
23:07:54Widgeti'm trying to use the database on my iriver, and most tracks are turning up multiple times. the wiki says this occurs for some specific artists, but doesn't say why
23:07:58Widgetcan I do anything about it?
23:10:32merbanansaratoga: what init code are you talking about ?
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23:12:47preglowmerbanan: did the wma fixed point dude just vanish, or what? heh
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23:13:10merbananpreglow: yepp, no answer at all
23:13:37Nico_Plow_light: I have a bit
23:14:21Nico_Pas I said, I like the concept (actually I even considered implementing it at one point)
23:14:43low_lightNico_P: yes, I saw your comment :)
23:15:00preglowthe guy who did the first fixed point for us had his house burn down, perhaps there's a curse going around
23:15:11Nico_Pin the patch I uploaded, I needed to add two variables in struct gui_img to make the thing compile
23:15:22preglowsaratoga: please look extra carefully when crossing streets this summer
23:15:55peturlol
23:16:00Nico_PGodEater: I've just discovered stgit... looks like an awesome tool to track patches
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23:16:15low_lightNico_P: ahh right...the animation timeouts
23:16:27Nico_Plow_light: that's it
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23:27:09GodEater_Nico_P: nifty :)
23:28:54Nico_Pindeed. I'm not sure how well it can work in combination with git-svn, but the concept is very appealing
23:29:11*GodEater_ is still reading up on the details of allowing people to pull from his local tree
23:30:53low_lightNico_P: the problem I have with displaying a single image from an imageset is that I need another variable in the token to specify the subimage # (value.i is used for the image #)
23:31:28Nico_Pah I see
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23:35:24Nico_Pyou maight need to add a new struct
23:35:29Nico_Pmight*
23:35:31low_lightNico_P: I was also thinking of a way to avoid adding all the extra tokens...maybe using syntax like %eApv which would use the existing %pv token (or any other enumerated token) with image A
23:35:51low_lightbut I haven't convinced myself that that's any easier or more efficient
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23:36:14Nico_Pthat seems complicated too
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23:41:25 Part low_light
23:42:47saratogapreglow: sorry, i'm in and out right now, the code i was thinking of just reads in some of the global wma stream info (bitrate, filesize, etc) and then inits ~150kb worth of lookup tables
23:43:31 Quit ender` (" We're not lost. We're locationally challenged. -- John M. Ford")
23:43:37preglowno stress
23:44:18saratogait seems to do all that fine
23:44:33saratogai really need to put more time into this codec, the last week i've barely worked on it
23:45:45preglowahh, which reminds me
23:46:06preglowmidterm (or whatever) evaluation is set for 13th of july or something, i think
23:46:11preglowand i won't be around after the 7th
23:46:39saratogawhat do we actually need to do for that?
23:46:40preglowdunno if i'll be able to come online around that date either
23:47:09preglowjust do a short project summary, i'd guess, to see how far you've come towards the goals
23:47:12preglowpotantially adjust the goals
23:47:18preglowand decide if you're going to be paid or not :P
23:47:28saratogaso i need to write up a status report ?
23:47:41preglowgimme ten and i'll see
23:47:47saratogaok thanks
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23:49:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:49:38preglowi see july 9th is the date, with 16th being the deadline
23:49:45preglowyou'll need to fill out some sort of survey too, it seems
23:49:57 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
23:50:08*petur is still worried about austriancoders absence
23:50:27preglownot 100% absent, i've seen him from time to time
23:50:52preglowbut he should have something to show soon, that's for sure
23:52:21peturhaven't seen hime for almost a week, no sign of life at all
23:52:36preglowi'll check around a bit to see if i can expect to have net access, if not it looks like i'll have to ask someone else to deal with the formalities
23:52:57dionoeasend him an email (that's what i did when my SoC student didn't show up for a week ... and it worked :p)
23:53:07peturpreglow: he has patches online with his progress, but last update was last friday
23:53:16peturdionoea: I did
23:53:20dionoeaah :/
23:53:41preglowjust disappearing isn't good, no
23:54:02preglowa simple "will be gone for xxx days" would suffice
23:54:02peturI already mailed him once stating he should provide more progress updates, that went good for a week and now this :/
23:54:09preglowand that is an arbitrary number of x'es, yes
23:54:51peturI think it's only normal to tell people you're afk for a few days
23:54:58preglowoh indeed
23:55:30preglowsaratoga: but yeah, having something just decoding on target by mid-term would be fine by me, and would simplify the process a good deal, so if you find the time, it would be worth putting in some work towards that
23:55:49preglowsaratoga: but of course, i also understand the drudgery, boredom and time involved in moving, hehe
23:55:56*preglow absolutely hates moving
23:56:25*petur sits still
23:56:47*preglow tips petur over
23:57:22peturbah... back up again
23:57:33saratogayeah i hope to get on target decoding going this weekend
23:57:41saratogaat least i see no reason I shouldn't get it working
23:57:55saratogaits just a matter of slogging through enough debug output until something clicks
23:58:16 Quit lee-qid (Connection timed out)
23:58:24saratogai'm so close right now
23:58:30preglowyeah, seems like it
23:58:33saratogaanyway, got to run, thanks for the heads up
23:58:38saratogawill work on this later tonight
23:58:39preglowsure, no worries
23:58:39 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:58:41preglowsee ya around
23:58:59 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC")

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