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#rockbox log for 2007-07-28

00:00:58DerPapstthe scsi inquiry code only runs on windows and linux. not on mac...
00:01:03amiconnAnd once it's playing, I can undo the manual boost.
00:01:39Lloreanamiconn: Can you just boost during the init?
00:01:52amiconnI just had that idea...
00:02:40DerPapsti wonder why it worked before r13845... boosting was possible before without issues
00:03:11amiconnNot without issues.... just less issues
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00:08:12DerPapstbleh.. one of my neigbours (about 50m away!) listens in a extreme volume stupid german hip-hop :-/ bushido n stuff...
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00:09:58 Quit Bagder ("It is time to say moo")
00:10:20amiconnnpp
00:15:05 Quit Hadaka (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
00:15:05NSplitheinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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00:15:34NHealheinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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00:34:58*Domonoky has now a working bootloader installation in rbutilQt, for all Targets except for sansas and irivers..
00:36:57 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@i-83-67-214-206.freedom2surf.net)
00:37:03stripwaxhullo
00:37:13 Quit raphi ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12")
00:37:22Llorean'irivers' meaning all iRivers, or just the H100/300 (the ones requiring flashing)
00:41:07 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC")
00:44:16DerPapst./sleep −−user DerPapst
00:44:19 Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!")
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00:47:55amiconnHmpf, seems the g1/g2 build will need a dynamic setting
00:48:08amiconng2 can detect headphone unplug, g1 cannot.
00:49:56LloreanThat's the only relevant difference so far?
00:51:51amiconnThere are some init differences, but nothing user visible
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01:11:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:15:23stripwaxDomonoky - did you get a chance to look at my icon patch and/or my thoughts about bootloader versioning?
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01:19:54Domonokystripwax: the icon is good !
01:20:01Domonokycommit it :-)
01:20:33stripwaxDomonoky - ah-hahah.. :)
01:20:55Domonokystripwax: you dont have access ?
01:20:57stripwaxyou know I would .. if I could ..
01:21:00stripwaxnope
01:21:22stripwaxunless I do now, but haven't been informed about it yet ..
01:21:33Domonokysome please give stripwax commit rights.. :-)
01:21:40*stripwax dreams about what he could do with commit rights ..
01:22:24*stripwax wonders if signing up for some tasks on the Maintainers list would help his cause
01:22:51stripwaxoh, except, he can't, since that's also under revision control :)
01:22:54*stripwax dohs
01:23:52 Quit lxx ()
01:24:05*Domonoky will now commit your icon..
01:24:22Domonokyto the normal rbutil version.. not the new qt version..
01:24:28stripwaxCould someone with commit rights please a) commit my icon patch for rbutil (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7484) b) add my name to MAINTAINERS for sliding_puzzle plugin and descramble[iH1xx/3xx only] c) consider granting my commit rights?
01:24:30stripwax:)
01:24:38stripwaxDomonoky - right! :) and thanks!
01:24:47stripwaxactually, both, no?
01:25:14stripwax^descramble/both scramble and descramble
01:25:25stripwaxoh and Rockbox Utility too!
01:25:27stripwaxwhy not
01:25:57LloreanI think "MAINTAINERS" is for people who already have commit access, though.
01:26:10LloreanSince part of the job of maintainers is to review patches and commit them.
01:26:11 Quit datachild (Connection timed out)
01:26:27Domonokybut stripwax should get commit rights :-) i dont want to commit all his rbutil patches :-)
01:26:29stripwaxok then.
01:26:43*stripwax would be happy to
01:27:03*stripwax would also like to discuss his bitmap sliding_puzzle patch again
01:27:55Domonokystripwax: what about you thoughts about bootloader versioning ? were can i find them ? :-)
01:28:11stripwaxDomonoky - rbutil wiki page and irc logs for 26th July
01:28:20stripwaxmostly the irc logs.. sorry ..
01:29:33stripwaxbetween 01:19 and 01:33
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01:30:30Domonokyah.. is see..
01:30:58stripwaxis anyone working on new jackpot icons for bitmap targets?
01:31:07*amiconn wonders whether rbuitl can already install the 1st/2nd gen bootloader
01:31:08*stripwax might as well doodle
01:31:14Domonokybut that would require support from the Website..so if someone make a version file or something on the server aviable.. rbutil could use it..
01:31:31stripwaxDomonoky - yep, exactly. so that's why I'd like to discuss it on irc! :)
01:31:34Domonokyamiconn: nop
01:32:18Domonokyamiconn: you would have to recompile rbutil with the ipodpatcher changes, and fill in the info for the 1st/2nd gen in the ini file..
01:32:20stripwaxamiconn - what would be involved in creating zipfiles containing the bootloader and a bootloader.version sentinel file on download.rockbox.org
01:33:50LloreanDomonoky: Couldn't you just compare the date of the file on the website to a date stored in a local file in the DAP?
01:34:01LloreanRather than having to have a separate file on the website, that is.
01:34:19Domonokyhm.. that could be possible..
01:34:29stripwaxLlorean - that could work, if the bootloaders are not rebuilt daily (so always have old timestamps)
01:34:35Lloreanstripwax: They are not.
01:34:42LloreanWe always ask users to use a specific binary version of the bootloader.
01:34:46Domonokybut better to build such functions, in the new rbutilQt version :-)
01:34:50stripwaxgreat - then that sounds like the solution
01:35:08LloreanFor example, the current iPod bootloader version is: 23-May-2007
01:35:21stripwaxLlorean - how will the users know what the specific binary version of the bootloader is, if the files on the website only tell you a timestamp and not a version? or is the version just == the build date
01:35:31 Quit chrisjs169__ ("Konversation terminated!")
01:36:05stripwax(and are old versions available? could there be an issue with just blindly installing the latest bootloader? which is what rbutil currently does btw)
01:36:11Lloreanstripwax: Most of the bootloaders don't really have a binary version, and when they report the SVN revision they also should report the build date.
01:36:31LloreanThere should be no issues with installing the newest bootloader, a new one isn't made available until it's expected to work. It's not automated like builds.
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01:37:03LloreanIn fact, older bootloaders shouldn't be used at all, since usually a newer bootloader is only made available when it's considered necessary or a good idea for users to upgrade.
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01:37:18stripwaxLlorean - ok, just not sure what you meant by "ask users to install a specific version". we just ask users to install 'the latest version' ?
01:37:25LloreanYes.
01:37:46LloreanWe ask them to install whichever binary we're providing, rather than compile one themselves as that can have very unexpected results.
01:37:50stripwaxok, so no problem then. perhaps rbutil can just query the datestamp on the server and only download if different
01:37:58stripwaxLlorean - definitely
01:38:10LloreanYes, I think that should be a safe method of checking for updates to it.
01:38:21stripwaxDomonoky - if qt is the way forward, best commit the icon for both rbutil and rbutilqt :)
01:38:24*stripwax installs qt ..
01:38:26LloreanThough on some occasions (restoration of backups after an attack) it may result in an extra install.
01:39:00stripwaxI think that's not a problem. rbutil will just say 'a new bootloader is available', it won't necessarily install automatically (except for first-time installs)
01:41:04LloreanSounds alright to me. As far as I know, the only devices a user can't upgrade bootloaders at a whim are the H100/H300.
01:42:18stripwaxLlorean - mm, was an eeprom driver not written for h1xx/3xx ? I thought H1xx was romboxable
01:42:32LloreanThe H1xx is romboxable, yes.
01:43:01LloreanThere's not an official bootloader for this yet.
01:43:05stripwaxok
01:43:39stripwaxbut can rockbox (non rombox) upgrade the h1xx/3xx flash or does the user need to boot back to OF (as used to be the case)
01:44:49LloreanI don't believe the functionality is fully realized yet, but I really don't know. I think it requires the one of the v7 work-in-progress bootloaders at the moment.
01:45:39stripwaxthanks for the info!
01:46:28amiconnhrrmmm
01:46:38stripwaxalthough wasn't rombox discontinued
01:46:42amiconnAnyone familiar with ipl's request_irq() ?
01:46:50*stripwax maybe dreamt that
01:47:22LloreanI think we gave up on rombox on the archoses.
01:47:38stripwaxok
01:48:33amiconnNot on all of them
01:48:40amiconnJust those where it became too large
01:49:11amiconnAnd rombox != rockbox_in_flash
01:49:52LloreanYeah, but doesn't the flashed H100 support execution from ROM too?
01:50:00stripwaxDomonoky - dumb question, how do I build the rbutilqt ..?
01:50:33Domonokyqmake and then make in the rbutilqt dir
01:51:06 Quit sarixe ("Peace")
01:51:47Domonokychecking the time stamp on the server should be easy, you can just check a value in the HttpResponse Header..
01:52:46stripwaxDomonoky - ah, I suspect I'm going to have cygwin fun again .. :)
01:54:04Domonokystripwax: so windows, i just use the windows shell ( the Qt installation provides on with the paths already set up)
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02:02:37stripwax_hmm
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02:08:10pixelmaLlorean: can http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/7309 be closed then? Could you also do that yourself?
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02:09:43Lloreanpixelma: Ah, forgot about that. Closed it with a note for the user to reopen if it does turn out to be able to be reproduced.
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02:10:22pixelmaok, just found that when digging through the "Open tasks" mail
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02:10:56LloreanYeah, I just forgot to check back on it, I was honestly expecting him to report back with it being reproduced.
02:11:50pixelmaI see
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03:37:24Alex1441hi
03:37:29Alex4114hi
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03:54:20gxtii'm having problems with rockbox on my 1st gen nano... the latest build is completely hosed, and i've tried a few earlier builds but can't play any music
03:54:52gxtiand since i haven't used it in two years (and never got it working then) i really don't know what i'm doing
03:54:58Llorean"completely hosed" is hardly a technical description. Care to elaborate on what exactly you mean, and what SVN revision, and bootloader version, you're using?
03:56:16gxtii've tried several nightly builds, right now i'm on r13975-070725
03:56:24gxtithe bootloader is the latest nabbed from the docs
03:56:30gxtias of two hours ago
03:57:27LloreanWhy haven't you used the current build?
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03:57:43gxtiit immediately dies saying it can't find the partition
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03:57:53LloreanHave you ever installed iPod Linux?
03:57:57gxtino
03:58:01gxtiwell, yes, two years ago...
03:58:06gxtiit's been reset many times since then
03:59:03LloreanIs your Apple firmware up to date?
03:59:21gxtii don't know, i haven't attached it to a windows machine in a long time
03:59:29gxtii'd have to use vmware to do it
03:59:47LloreanHave you reported this problem in the forums, or is this your first time mentioning it to anyone?
03:59:52gxtiwas there a change within the past 24 hours that would cause the behavior to change?
04:00
04:00:00gxtibecause the immediately previous build boots
04:00:10LloreanThere have been many builds in the last 24 hours.
04:00:14LloreanSo it's not the immediately previous build.
04:00:16gxtithe previous nightly build, i mean
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04:00:26gxtii find IRC to be faster... obviously there are a lot of questions flying
04:00:32LloreanWe in fact never suggest people install nightlies unless there's a known problem with the current build.
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04:01:12LloreanYou would be the third person to report this sort of problem on a recent build on the Nano, and the second that I've confirmed has had iPL installed. Since you're getting problems detecting the partition, I think there may be a relationship.
04:01:28LloreanThe Apple Restore is actually not perfect, it doesn't rebuild things exactly as if it were factory new.
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04:01:28gxtii'd be happy to nuke it from orbit if that'll solve the problem, but i'd have to dig out vmware
04:01:43gxtiblech
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04:02:13LloreanTo put things in reference, I've got an iPod Nano, and have in the past installed iPL, but have absolutely no problems running current builds of Rockbox on it.
04:02:29gxtii'll try upgrading it
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04:02:32LloreanSo we're looking for something that stands out as not-quite-right on those iPods that are reacting funny.
04:02:43gxtiunless you want me to save the partition table or something
04:03:02LloreanActually, if you could paste what iPodPatcher says about the partition table into pastebin.ca
04:03:17LloreanThen in the debug menu, get the information on the partitions that Rockbox reports, and paste them there too, it might prove useful
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04:06:28Davide-NYCis AGC implemented with the iaudio X5/M5?
04:06:36Davide-NYCit's not in the sim
04:06:46LloreanThe X5/M5 only have a very few gain levels, I believe.
04:06:52gxtiLlorean: http://pastebin.ca/636625
04:06:58LloreanIf I understand, AGC wouldn't make sense for them
04:07:12Davide-NYCSo the answer is no?
04:07:22Davide-NYC;-)
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04:08:44LloreanI don't *think* it is.
04:08:57Davide-NYCjhMikeS: you around Mike?
04:08:59Lloreangxti: And if you could boot into the original firmware, go to Settings->About and check the version number?
04:09:44Lloreangxti: Your partition layout matches mine exactly, so it's unlikely that that's it unless something is corrupt.
04:10:42Davide-NYCThe iriver h10 never had LCD remotes?
04:11:01LloreanI don't believe so, no.
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04:14:44gxtiLlorean: version is 1.3
04:15:24LloreanMine's 1.2
04:15:36LloreanBut I don't have access to windows right now to update and see if it causes crazy crashes.
04:16:06gxtii haven't even plugged this into a windows box in at least 6 months
04:16:09gxti(or a mac)
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04:17:03LloreanIt's been almost a year and a half since I've plugged it into a computer with iTunes installed.
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04:17:25*gxti waits for itunes to install
04:17:30LloreanIt's *possible* that the newest version of the Apple in-flash bootloader is causing the problem.
04:17:48Lloreangxti: You're running a newer version than me, it's unlikely updating with iTunes will do much good.
04:17:53*gxti shrugs
04:17:55LloreanAnd your partitions seem fine at least
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04:18:15*gxti backs up the first 128mb in case updating bricks something
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04:24:37gxtiitunes killed vmware. nice.
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04:25:03gxtiseems to have bricked the firmware first, though
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04:25:51LloreanYou can't really brick an iPod unless you interrupt it during flashing, which requires a pretty concentrated effort since Apple copies the data first, then the flashing happens.
04:26:06LloreanYou pretty much have to manually cut power to the device while there's a progress bar on the screen
04:26:18gxtiwell, it's not really bricked
04:26:28LloreanAh, we do ask that you be careful about use of the word "brick" around here.
04:26:34gxtipiece of shit, this time it blue screened
04:26:36LloreanWe kinda take it as a technical term.
04:26:43gxtiguess i need to find a windows box
04:27:19*gxti images his backup over (good thing i made one, eh)
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04:40:58gxtiin any case, with the previous nightly, it boots but can't play music (hangs at the now playing screen, sometimes has drawing glitches)
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05:00
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05:02:35Davide-NYCI'm going to fix the DeviceChart page based on the fair certainty that there were never any LCD remotes for the iriver H10.
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05:04:19LloreanHere's a cheerful PM I just got, that I don't really understand: "hi again, i am not happy with these loose forum rules, so could you please ban me?"
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05:09:04Davide-NYCLOL!!!
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05:10:07Davide-NYCDear Llorean, what you have received, in that particular PM is known (to us humans) as sarcasm.
05:10:15Davide-NYC;-)
05:10:32LloreanIt's more the "loose forum rules" bit.
05:10:47Davide-NYCOMG! They mean that you rule the forums with an iron fist.
05:10:53LloreanNah
05:10:54*Davide-NYC I'm dying over here...
05:10:57LloreanThe complain isn't about me.
05:10:58LloreanIt's about Febs.
05:11:06Davide-NYCEither way
05:11:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:11:10Davide-NYCLOL
05:11:12LloreanI'm actually more thinking he meant it in an "unclear" context.
05:11:22LloreanHe seems very confused as to why his posts have been deleted.
05:11:24*Davide-NYC slaps face
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05:12:07LloreanAh well.
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05:13:49Davide-NYCDear Everybody, I am soliciting your opinion and ideas −−> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=11816.0
05:14:24Davide-NYCWas that 'spammy' ?
05:14:28LloreanNah
05:14:34LloreanBut you're better off posting to the mailing list.
05:14:50LloreanSince the channel is transient, but the mailing list sits in your box and stares at you until you open the message
05:14:51Davide-NYCI'm not subscribed.
05:15:08LloreanThe -dev mailing list is absolutely the best way to get the opinions of most of the devs.
05:15:08Davide-NYCCould you do me a favor and spam them for me?
05:15:25LloreanYou won't be able to see responses unless you get on the list anyway.
05:15:40LloreanOr like, continually refresh the archives, but you won't be able to respond to the responses.
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05:17:06Davide-NYCalright I'm subscibed (urghh)
05:17:12Davide-NYC*subscribed
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05:25:00Davide-NYCgood night all
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05:48:22jason313whats the rockbox bootloader look like guys ?
05:50:44jason313I wanna use the iPl2 boot loader so i can dual boot either apple OS,rockbox or ipodlinux
05:53:40LloreanThe Rockbox bootloader isn't really seen
05:53:51LloreanBut it can multiboot too, you just hold down the right button while booting.
05:54:00jason313Iv got a Ipod video 80gig 5.5gen
05:57:25jason313I havnt actually read anywhere that its supported by the Ipl2 bootloader yet :/
05:57:41jason313lol i installed it on my ipod but for some reason
05:57:57LloreanQuestions about the iPL2 loader don't belong here.
05:58:00LloreanIt's not our software.
05:58:05jason313when you choose the "apple OS" option
05:58:28jason313it goes into a bootcylce and will go back to the iPL2 loader
05:58:31jason313oic :/
05:58:36jason313mybad
05:58:45LloreanThis is #rockbox, for discussion of Rockbox software.
05:58:54jason313yea i love rockbox
05:59:00jason313dont get me wrong :)
05:59:59jason313does ipodlinux have their own irc support channel ?
06:00
06:00:09LloreanI think it's just #ipodlinux
06:01:31jason313cheers mate :D
06:22:13Lloreanamiconn: Do you think it's possible that the newest Apple bootloader flash version could have something that conflicts with your frequency changes?
06:22:29LloreanIs there a state they could put the processor in that would cause it to be severely unstable in Rockbox?
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06:46:11rjeffersonhi
06:46:24rjeffersoni think i just messed up my ipod :(
06:46:51rjeffersonis anyone there willing to help?
06:50:02jason313lol
06:50:04jason313what you do ?
06:50:12jason313restore it with itunes
06:58:50scorcherjefferson: what makes you think you messed it up?
06:59:51rjeffersonthe ipod is constantly rebooting
06:59:56jason313oh
07:00
07:00:03rjeffersonit shows the apple logo then reboots
07:00:10jason313its in a boot cycle mate :)
07:00:19rjeffersoni think i messed it up while messing with the partition table
07:00:23rjeffersonhow do i fix that?
07:00:32scorchewhy were ou messing with the partition table?
07:00:33rjeffersoni can't get a computer to recognize it
07:00:36jason313put it into diskmode by holding select and play
07:00:46rjeffersoni was converting it to fat32 from hfs
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07:01:03scorchewere you following our instructions?
07:01:03jason313then your pc will pick it up
07:01:07rjeffersonnice!
07:01:09rjeffersonthank you!
07:01:10jason313what ipod is it ?
07:01:11rjeffersonphew
07:01:15jason313np's
07:01:16rjeffersonipod video
07:01:16jason313:)
07:01:24rjeffersonit's not mine, my girl would have had my ass
07:01:32jason313lmfao
07:01:44scorcheyou really cant screw up an ipodunless you try very hard
07:01:51jason313rjefferson do you run just rockbox firmware ?
07:01:54rjeffersonyeah, i didn't think you could
07:02:01rjeffersoni need to get it to fat32 first
07:02:06rjeffersoni don't have a windows computer
07:02:13scorcherjefferson: are you following our instructions?
07:02:16rjeffersoni was
07:02:19jason313oic kk cool
07:02:20jason313:)
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07:03:02jason313I want to dualboot mine rjefferson with the iPL2 loader but I cant get it to work
07:03:06jason313hehe
07:03:27rjeffersonwow. that was scary.
07:04:08jason313I dont think the 80gig 5.5g video is officaly supported yet :/
07:04:21scorcheby what?
07:05:02jason313iPL2 loader
07:05:22scorcheok...you can stop whining about it in here...
07:05:53jason313lol I'm not
07:05:58rjeffersonwhere's the convert to fat32 page?
07:06:11scorcherjefferson: the manual links to it
07:06:52rjeffersonok
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07:06:56jason313scorche the majority of people using rockbox are ipod owners :)
07:07:07scorchenot necessarily
07:07:12Lloreanjason313: Probably not true.
07:07:18jason313yes they are
07:07:20LloreanAs well, why does it matter of they're iPod users?
07:07:32scorchewhere is the evidence that they are?
07:07:34Lloreanjason313: Have you performed an extensive survey then?
07:07:47jason313yea i have
07:07:49LloreanIf we judge by user activity, the majority of our users are e200 users.
07:07:58scorchesurely you are not just throwing out random facts without data backing it up
07:08:08rjeffersongrr i can't find the fat32 page
07:08:12LloreanThey've provided the most posts in our forums in the most recent period, at least.
07:08:21LloreanWhat metric are you measuring by?
07:08:29scorchei promise it is linked to in the manual
07:08:49scorchesomewhere on the part that prepares you for installation
07:09:13rjeffersonfound it
07:10:06rjeffersonit doesn't have instructions for linux
07:10:23rjeffersondoing this on a mac is what messed it up in the first place
07:10:41rjeffersonjust use mkfs?
07:10:43jason313anyhow
07:11:07jason313im sure there would be atleast one person here that has atleast messed with it
07:11:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:11:27scorchefor the last time...this channel isnt about ipl...it is about rockbox
07:11:48jason313i mean why be so pathetic as to try and shrug me off, all yall gotta say is nope havnt messed with it before
07:12:12scorchebecause this is in the guidelines which you were supposed o have read before speaking
07:12:13jason313there are shitloads of other people in this channel by chance maby just one of them may have
07:12:20scorchego ahead and read them now
07:12:48jason313guidelines ? eh rules were made to be broken
07:12:50jason313heh
07:13:01scorcheno, they arent
07:13:08Lloreanjason313: Rules are made because we intend to enforce them.
07:13:09jason313yea they are
07:13:18jason313yea ofcourse
07:13:24scorcherjefferson: those instructions can be used for linux too
07:13:25LloreanThey wouldn't be written if they weren't going to be enforced.
07:13:39jason313lol
07:13:40rjeffersonyeah, i just used mkfs.vfat
07:13:49jason313yall have nothing better to do with your time
07:13:51scorcheyou also need to copy over the mbr
07:14:00rjeffersoni did that with dd
07:14:05jason313then to enforce guidlines on an irc channel
07:14:06scorchegood =)
07:14:08Lloreanjason313: We don't like our logs being cluttered with off topic crud, it's that simple.
07:14:12jason313sad really
07:14:15LloreanAsk in the appropriate channel.
07:14:23LloreanIf nobody helps you there, that's your problem, but don't make it our problem.
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07:14:49jason313ic
07:17:24jason313well your #rockbox-community sucks ass
07:17:30jason3134 people
07:18:23scorcheno one stays in there because not many are in there, not many are in there because no one stays...it isnt a kind cycle
07:19:19LloreanAnd then there are people like me, how are merely robots designed entirely to enforce rules and complain about guidelines not being followed.
07:19:22Llorean*who
07:20:11jason313thats fucking sad dude
07:20:17jason313this is a good actice channel
07:20:19Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
07:20:21Mode"#rockbox +b %jason313!*@* " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
07:20:41scorcheyou are muted for 10 min...please use that time to read the guidelines
07:20:44LloreanjhMikeS: I think the user wants to play one file (for example an existing compressed recording) while recording a new one that's a mix of the playback and new thing.
07:20:58LloreanjhMikeS: For example, recording guitar music, then playing back and adding lyrics.
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07:22:52scorcheLlorean: too busy to come and bask in #rockbox-community? =P
07:23:26LloreanPeople might get the idea I have a personality, and we can't have that.
07:23:50scorchehaha...he comes and rants about me in #rockbox-community, then moves to #ipodlinux after i banish him...
07:24:14*scorche sighs
07:24:52scorcheLlorean: you should have stayed away from DCW then...we all know your dirty secret now =P
07:26:16LloreanI need to find someone with a Nano running 1.2 or earlier, doesn't mind the probability that they'll ruin their Rockbox support for a while, and has access to a windows box. :(
07:26:37scorcheeek...
07:26:43LloreanYeah
07:27:04LloreanRight now my best theory for the Nano problems is that 1.3 brings with it a flash update that borks recent Rockbox builds on the Nano
07:27:07scorchewell, good thing i am on vacation and forgot to bring my ipod cable then =)
07:27:29LloreanI'm running 1.2 without *any* of the described problems, but don't have Windows as the windows laptop is in the shop.
07:27:46LloreanAnd I'm leaving town tomorrow for another week, so it'll be at least that long before I have a chance of testing for myself
07:28:11scorchesounds like everyone is going on vacation..
07:28:22LloreanIt's that time of year, it seems
07:28:24scorchei really should be working on the themes site...
07:28:38LloreanHeheh
07:32:27Mode"#rockbox -b %jason313!*@* " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
07:32:44Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
07:32:53scorchecs op #rockbox-community -scorche
07:32:56scorchewhoops
07:33:16scorchegrrr...i hate laptop keyboards
07:43:05jhMikeSLlorean: hrm. what do they expect out of these things? it's not mixing studio. same rules re: loading two codecs however.
07:44:01LloreanClearly they expect magic anyway.
07:44:37jhMikeSI'd suggest they implement a plug for that sort of thing myself.
07:44:41jhMikeS*plugin
07:45:09LloreanOr a custom recording build with different buffer layouts maybe?
07:46:07jhMikeSthey're in for a huge job if they want it using the core...I ain't doing it :)
07:46:43LloreanHahaha
07:50:22LloreanJust wait, someone will come up with a reason that you should be able to record from multiple inputs (or right and left channel to separate files). Eventually you'll get asked to do anything anyone can imagine the hardware might be used for.
07:51:59jhMikeSI'll tell them it might be used for that if you want to redesign the hardware.
07:52:21LloreanBe careful, they just might.
07:52:49jhMikeSWell, if they can manage that, I'll listen more closely ;)
07:53:11LloreanHehehe
07:57:08jhMikeSright now I just wanna know why the remote hotswap has to pound out remote plugged messages for a good 20 seconds so I can finish something else.
08:00
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08:40:53*Llorean wants to know what's up with other peoples' Nanos
09:00
09:11:04amiconnide timing, perhaps?
09:11:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:18:17Lloreanamiconn: Is that something that would vary with Apple_OS version, or could for some reason vary from model to model?
09:18:28LloreanEr, unit to unit of the same model, rather?
09:18:52LloreanIs there some way to check on it?
09:19:51amiconnThe timing of the interface is set by the firmware. Afaik rockbox doesn't touch it yet, so either the loader sets different values, or it's set teh same but not suitable for 80MHz and some of the flash disks can't cope
09:20:51amiconnIt should be possible to find out with some experiments on such a unit
09:20:53LloreanI'm betting it's that the flash loader sets different values then.
09:21:03LloreanSo far, everyone with problems is using 1.3/1.3.1
09:21:21amiconnAha, collecting such info will also help
09:21:49amiconn...ideally together with a flash loader dump of that and a working version
09:21:52LloreanI've asked a forum member who's running an earlier version to upgrade (I don't have access to windows at the moment, I have a 1.2 device that's working fine though)
09:22:09LloreanI've also asked him to dump his current (working) ROM, and then dump the ROM again if it doesn't work after the upgrade.
09:23:18amiconnI wonder why it doesn't even boot though. Does booting set CPUFREQ_MAX?
09:23:25LloreanIt boots.
09:23:39LloreanIt just gets a lot of illegal instructions, data aborts, and similar errors when playback is attempted.
09:23:55amiconnOne of the experiments would be to keep the new clock setup code but change back to 78MHz for CPUFREQ_MAX
09:24:10LloreanAlthough some builds apparently get "Partition not found" so I guess those "don't boot" though they get past the Rockbox bootloader.
09:24:25amiconnNot a difficult patch but not a one-liner either (needs to change the #define and the PLL_CONFIG value)
09:25:46LloreanOne person says that the problem starts immediately after your changes in 13763/13767.
09:26:25LloreanWhat would still be 78mhz, but without all the necessary clock setup code?
09:26:43amiconn13763..13990 are broken on PP5022, I'd ignore that
09:27:41LloreanAlright
09:28:28amiconnUnfortunately there's no daily build between the fix for the first PP5022 problem (13991) and the 80MHz switch (14004)
09:28:50amiconnThat might make it appear as the same problem, but it's not
09:29:16LloreanSo, a build of 13991 would tell us what the problem is, or should I just change the line (and if so, which to what?)
09:29:25LloreanErr, change the lines.
09:30:19amiconnIf 13991..14003 run ok, that would tell us this user had the first problem (which, btw, also appeared on Linus' G5.5 I still have)
09:30:48LloreanThe first problem being the ide timing issue?
09:30:50amiconnThe same is true for current svn with CPUFREQ_MAX changed to 78MHz
09:30:53amiconnnope
09:31:14amiconnThe first problem is a timing issue in the clock setup only appearing on some PP5022s
09:31:17LloreanAh
09:31:31LloreanAnd no fix for that yet?
09:31:44amiconn?
09:31:51amiconn`That is fixed with 13991....
09:32:01LloreanBut unfixed after 14004?
09:32:08amiconn_nope_
09:32:11LloreanI'm confused.
09:32:17LloreanThey're having these problems with current builds.
09:32:19amiconn14004 changes CPUFREQ_MAX to 80MHz
09:32:32amiconn...and that might cause ide timing problems
09:32:34LloreanAah
09:32:59LloreanSo if 13991 works, but 14004 doesn't, it's IDE timing?
09:33:02LloreanOr probably so?
09:33:09amiconnYes, probably
09:33:37amiconnThe next test would then be current svn changed to 78MHz
09:33:50amiconnIf that works again, it's definitely timing
09:34:41LloreanDo I just need to set CPUFREQ_MAX or do I need to make the pll change you mentioned?
09:34:52amiconnboth
09:35:43amiconnChange firmware/target/arm/system-target.h line 39 to: #define CPUFREQ_MAX 78000000
09:37:26amiconnChange firmware/target/arm/system-pp502x.c line 203 to: PLL_CONTROL = 0x8a121a04;
09:37:48amiconnAnd to be consistent for PP5020 (just in case you want to build that):
09:38:29amiconnChange firmware/target/arm/system-pp502x.c lines 177 and 179 to: PLL_CONTROL = 0x8a020d04;
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09:39:55LloreanOkay, thanks
09:41:42amiconnIf this does not help, there's another thing that could be tested
09:41:49LloreanWhat's that?
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09:42:33amiconnThe clock setup for PP5022 still contains a simplification over what the OF does. Two further experiments will then tell us whether there is a problem
09:42:49amiconnBut that's a lot less likely than timing
09:43:15LloreanI'll upload a 13991, 14004, and current with the change build, and ask them to try each of them
09:43:55amiconn14004 should be identical to plain svn regarding their problem
09:44:32amiconnSo checking 13991 and current svn with 78MHz modification should be enough
09:46:08LloreanAh well, I've already started uploading the attachments. I'll just leave it.
09:50:56amiconnI'd say let them test and report back for now. Not too many test at once, that might be scaring
09:51:10amiconnI have some further ideas what to test
09:52:20LloreanWell the forums were rejecting me attaching them anyway, so I'm just doing 13991, and the modified current now.
09:52:22LloreanSo, two tests.
09:53:36amiconnAll 4 permutations of the result will be possible
09:54:10amiconnBoth not working -> 78MHz are still too much
09:55:03amiconn13991 not working but modified svn working -> the way of PLL setup we use now is correct and the older wasn't, but 80MHz are too much
09:55:27LloreanIt may still be fixable by doing some of our own setup on the timing though?
09:55:50amiconn13991 working but modified svn not working -> the new PLL setup has problems with the simplification, and 80MHz are too much
09:56:03amiconnBoth working -> 80MHz are too much
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09:56:59amiconnYes, if we find out how to set all timings properly, we should be able to make rockbox run stable at 80MHz
09:59:03LloreanWell, as I said, it runs absolutely stable on my 1.2 Nano, so there's an existing condition where 80mhz is no problem at least
09:59:35amiconnyup
10:00
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10:00:44amiconnCould be interesting to make a special build that dumps all interesting registers before touching them
10:01:03amiconn...and then run that on 2 nanos, one with flash loader 1.2 and another with flash loader 1.3
10:01:28LloreanWell mine's still flash loader 1.2. Once I've got access to a windows machine, I can run such a build before and after upgrade.
10:01:56amiconnLlorean: Hmm, could you check what CLOCK_0x2C is at in the I/O port debug on your nano?
10:02:27Llorean0
10:02:36LloreanWell, 00000000
10:02:59amiconnok
10:03:23*amiconn wonders why the mini g2 is the only pp502x target that doesn't have it set to 0 after boot
10:05:31scorchesomething to do with it being the only 5022 possibly?
10:06:36amiconnIt isn't.
10:08:07scorcheit isnt something to do with that, you mean?
10:08:24amiconnIt's not the only PP5022 target
10:08:47scorchewhat else is?
10:09:30amiconniPod video, nano, and the Sansa. At least from a programming point of view
10:09:55amiconnThe PP5021 is a PP5022 internally, probably just not specified for the full 100MHz
10:10:06scorche5021 and 5024, but yes...i wasnt looking at the programming POV
10:10:07amiconnAnd the PP5024 is a PP5022 with tacked on AS3514
10:10:14scorchestill is the main difference i can think of..
10:11:36amiconnCLOCK_0x2C is also some kind of timing, all PP502x ipods set it in their clock setup
10:12:15amiconnJust the mini2g is the only one where the loader sets it to something else than 0
10:15:55Lloreanamiconn: Well, one user (who *may* have a different problem, his symptoms only show up with FLAC) says 13991 works, and the modified current build does not.
10:20:17LloreanAlright, 4 for 4 on people having problems being using 1.3 or 1.3.1
10:20:55amiconnjhMikeS: Yellow and red...
10:21:13amiconnI also wonder why having one complex thread is better than having 2 simple ones...
10:23:12jhMikeSamiconn: I'm quite aware :)
10:24:01jhMikeSfewer threads, less to maintain. I wouldn't desrible this as complex though.
10:25:23jhMikeSshould also be losing some bytes again since I left something I didn't need
10:26:13amiconnEven with the still missing jump scroll added back?
10:26:19amiconn(I mean the complexity)
10:27:24jhMikeSthe scrolling itself is just called so nothing to add to the thread itself
10:28:16amiconnWell, the thread needs to calculate the steps, and when to cease jump scroll and continue normally
10:28:43jhMikeSsure, they just do that when they get called. I really don't see any issue myself.
10:29:08*amiconn also had to read the 2nd sentence several times before understanding it
10:29:09jhMikeSthey already calculate when to delay, reverse, etc.
10:29:35jhMikeSthe function just gets called at the set interval
10:30:18amiconnYes, but jump scroll needs a far different interval
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10:31:35stripwaxmorning
10:33:01jhMikeSamiconn: if jumpscrolling, you can just set another. I imagine some lines will jumpscroll while others will not and the ones that don't have to stay running at normal scroll speed.
10:33:29amiconnyes
10:33:49amiconnSo in the worst case there are 4 different intervals to handle
10:34:01amiconn(main and remote, normal scroll and jump scroll)
10:34:41jhMikeSI don't think it will be more difficult this way that it otherwise would. the only difference is where the state data is stored. :\
10:34:46*amiconn doesn't remember how this was handled in the old scroll thread.... need to check old svn
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10:47:55stripwaxIs the idea of the scrolling thread change just to reduce the thread count
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10:48:30*stripwax thinks of the scrolling_margins patch diff ..
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10:49:02Lloreanamiconn: Okay, it seems to be "the new PLL setup has problems with the simplification, and 80MHz are too much"
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10:51:25*stripwax installs Qt/Windows, slowly...
10:52:37jhMikeSamicon: does it really take 20 seconds to make sure a remote is initialized? I'd think 5 would be more than sufficient.
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10:53:04JdGordonevening all
10:53:25amiconnjhMikeS: It's better to stay on the safe side. When implementing this, I tested extremely slow insertion of the plug
10:55:39linuxstbstripwax: Regarding bootloader versions, I think that where the bootloader is stored on disk, we should embed a version number into the binary so rbutil can reliably confirm the version number. For targets with the bootloader in flash, I guess all we can do is write a text file, but IMO that should be outside .rockbox, as users can delete that without deleting their bootloader.
10:55:57*jhMikeS pictures a sloth with an mp3 player and sees the point :P
10:56:22jhMikeSwhat's that "Id" thing mean in the build table?
10:56:42amiconnld
10:56:46amiconnlinker error
10:57:14amiconnbygg.haxx.se seems to be unstable atm
10:57:30jhMikeSI and l look the same in my browser font
10:57:44stripwaxlinuxstb - that would be ideal, if we have an easy way of knowing (for each target) where in the binary that version stamp is stored (and also if it's clear what to do about existing bootloaders that don't have that information)
10:58:29stripwaxArgh. QT installer for windows wants to install MingW. I already have like three versions of it from different crappy dev tools
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11:00
11:00:24stripwaxbut it seems they've all installed cut down versions so they can't be shared. humph.
11:00:27linuxstbstripwax: It could just be something like a magic string (e.g. "RBBLVers") followed by the version number - either at a fixed offset, or even randomly located in the binary (it would be easy for rbutil to search for it).
11:00:51*amiconn wonders why jhMikeS doesn't test-build the broken bootloaders.
11:01:00amiconnThey're few (only one left)
11:01:36Lloreanamiconn: Assuming the problem is IDE timing, do you have any ideas for fixing it?
11:01:47jhMikeSI did one, but forgot to do H300
11:01:48amiconnNot yet
11:01:57LloreanWould you like a dump of the 1.2 ROM?
11:02:01stripwaxlinuxstb - mm - I was thinking against a random location but then again, the bootloaders are pretty tiny
11:02:10amiconnAtm I'm trying to understand why the PP5002 doesn't want to fire GPIO interrupts
11:02:30amiconnI want to make scrollwheel significantly more responsive on G1..G3
11:02:38linuxstbstripwax: Even searching a few MB of data for a 8-byte identifier wouldn't cause a PC to sweat...
11:02:41jhMikeSamiconn: I saw you mention that the C fiq doesn't work? well, in SVN it doesn't work. with my pcm patch it does.
11:03:15amiconnIt does work
11:03:16*jhMikeS figured out in the case of sansa, there's multiple GPIO bits
11:03:34jhMikeSamiocnn: for which player? the FIFO_FREE_COUNT mask is wrong for PP502x
11:03:35amiconnI thought it'd work better than the asm, but in fact it's the same
11:03:46amiconniPod G2
11:04:02stripwaxlinuxstb- I realise that :) I'd just rather not have rbutil do this search on the target harddrive every time you run it, it seems a waste.
11:04:32linuxstbstripwax: PCs are meant to be wasted...
11:04:56LloreanHm
11:04:58linuxstbBut seriously, reading 50KB from the disk and searching for a string isn't going to be that much different to reading a text file.
11:05:03LloreanShould the "Dump ROM contents" in the debug menu work?
11:05:11stripwaxnot worried about the pc, don't want rbutil to unnecessarily search the target..
11:05:16stripwax(if possible)
11:05:23linuxstbstripwax: The bootloader is in a fixed location...
11:05:30linuxstbIt's just the string within that bootloader.
11:05:44stripwaxright. reading 50KB and reading 8MB are different, no?
11:05:53linuxstbHuh? There's no 8MB to read.
11:06:15stripwaxmm, maybe I misinterpreted your 'reading a few MB of data'
11:06:27linuxstbI said "even reading a few MB of data" (which it won't do).
11:06:54linuxstbJust to stress the point that reading 50KB (the typical bootloader size) is trivial.
11:06:54stripwaxok - I thought you were saying some bootloaders were sized on the order of a few MB. If they're not - then there's no issue - !
11:07:02amiconnLlorean: It should, but you'll probably get no noticeable feedback on the nano
11:07:07stripwaxfine. anyway I'm still trying to get qt install working..
11:07:08Lloreanamiconn: I get a 0kb file
11:07:19LloreanEr, 0b
11:07:40amiconneh?
11:07:50stripwaxlinuxstb - and if the search finds nothing, assume the bootloader is old? how do we know that the bootloader on download.rockbox.org is newer, without downloading it?
11:07:51LloreanWhen I use it, I get a 0-size file
11:07:55amiconnConnected too early, perhaps?
11:08:12stripwax(we were discussing to read the server timestamp from the http message)
11:08:51Lloreanamiconn: Well, I choose the option, then for about 1.5-2 seconds it doesn't permit me to scroll, then a disk icon shows up in the status bar for a very brief period. Then a file exists in root, but it's 0 bytes.
11:09:12amiconnhmm
11:09:16amiconnWorks on mini g2
11:09:35LloreanIt doesn't seem to on Nano.
11:09:37linuxstbstripwax: Just have a text file on the download server with a version string. We can control what's on the download server, so keep it simple.
11:10:48stripwaxActually that was my original suggestion! have a bootloader.zip file containing the bootloader bin and version.text ..
11:11:06stripwaxunless you think the bootloader and the version file should be separate files
11:11:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:11:31linuxstbYes, keep them separate.
11:11:47linuxstbJust something like [bootloaderfilename].version
11:12:02stripwaxok. Who should I talk to to get that set up? Actually I asked this yesterday but was told 'it would be better to check the server timestamp in the http message' ....
11:12:48stripwaxI don't seem to have much power on my own
11:12:49linuxstbThere's no point until the bootloaders themselves contain a version number, at which time whoever builds the bootloaders can create the .version text files.
11:13:11linuxstb(and then give them to Bagder/Zagor/LinusN to copy to the download servers)
11:13:14stripwaxok - so who should I talk to to get *that* set up too? it's a bit chicken and egg
11:14:14linuxstbYou could submit a patch which adds it.
11:14:43amiconnLlorean: Really odd. Works on all 3 PP502x targets I tested
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11:15:11Lloreanamiconn: Why did you think the Nano wouldn't give feedback?
11:15:38amiconnWell, you get a tiny bit of feedback (the short blink of the disk icon _after_ writing the file)
11:15:46stripwaxlinuxstb - fair point
11:15:49LloreanYes, that's what I got.
11:15:51amiconnOn the disk-based targets you can feel the disk spin
11:16:52LloreanWell, the file is created but it's empty
11:17:26amiconnCould you perform a chkdsk after that 0-file is written?
11:18:25linuxstbBTW, if you just want a copy of the flash (rather than solve the problem...) you can use this on a copy of the firmware partition - http://ipodlinux.org/Flash_Decryption
11:20:58Lloreanamiconn: Should fsck pick it up?
11:21:10amiconnperhaps
11:22:13LloreanI'm not getting anything with it.
11:24:49*amiconn puzzled
11:24:54amiconnThe file should be 1MB
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11:29:14LloreanWell, it's not working on mine at least. =/
11:29:24LloreanHas it been tested on a Nano before?
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11:31:23linuxstbLlorean: Yes. I have a dump from preglow's Nano to prove it.
11:31:41Lloreanamiconn: Could the IDE timing issue prevent writing?
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11:33:01amiconnNot when running at 30MHz
11:33:27LloreanAh, and yeah nothing should've boosted assuming that doesn't.
11:34:13stripwaxlinuxstb - do any targets use encrypted on-disk bootloaders? e.g. bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod contains unencrypted strings
11:34:28stripwaxif any do, that is going to make things harder this way
11:36:16*stripwax finds some interesting strings in bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod : "/.rockbox/codepages/932.cp" , "Blocking violation B->*T", ..
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11:37:23amiconnSome mi4 targets might require encrypted bootloaders
11:37:33amiconnNone of the current ones do afaik
11:37:36stripwaxok
11:37:44DerPapstLlorean: actually you don't need to have access to a winbox to upgrade your nnos firmware.
11:37:49DerPapst*nanos
11:38:19LloreanDerPapst: If I want it to properly flash I need not only OSOS but AUPD, and it needs to have the "Flash me" bit set, right?
11:38:36DerPapstcorrect
11:38:51DerPapstbut the firmware files you get from apple include them
11:39:08*DerPapst has updated his video fw that ways
11:39:13LloreanIncluding the AUPD?
11:39:14DerPapst-s
11:39:17DerPapstyes
11:39:49LloreanI'd be nervous, I assume you have to DD it separately?
11:39:49DerPapstand we on iPL.org have a tool where you can extract AND decypt the aupd image from such a firmware file
11:39:58DerPapstnope
11:40:09DerPapstwait a sec...
11:40:10linuxstbstripwax: The mi4 bootloaders are unencrypted - we use the "plain text" trick to remove the need to encrypt them.
11:40:14scorcheassuming restoring a new image would update it, http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DeviceChart?topic=IpodManualRestore
11:40:17barrywardellyes, none of the current mi4 targets use encrypted bootloaders. the gigabyte bootloader is encrypted though.
11:40:47DerPapstLlorean: download your nanos firmware from here http://www.felixbruns.de/iPod/firmware/
11:41:02DerPapstLlorean: rename the file to zip and extract it.
11:41:06linuxstbDerPapst: I mentioned that about 20 minutes ago...
11:41:11stripwaxdo only the irivers have encrypted bootloaders (which are in flash anyway)? thinking how best to handle these in rbutil - probably just store the unencrypted bootloader on the target disk
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11:41:22scorcheand that is in the link i just posted..
11:41:39DerPapstLlorean: that contains the firmware including osos aupd and rsrc.
11:41:52DerPapstlinuxstb: haven't seen it sorry ;)
11:42:07barrywardellstripwax: the gigabeat has an encrypted bootloader too.
11:42:10Domonokystripwax. any luck compiling rbutil QT ? :-)
11:42:27barrywardelland that's on disk, for now anyway
11:42:52stripwaxbarrywardell - ah...
11:42:53DerPapstLlorean: and here is the tool that you can use to decrypt the aupd image without having to dump it from your nano. http://www.ipodlinux.org/Flash_Decryption
11:43:04stripwaxDomonoky - it's only just finished downloading. qt is massive..
11:43:16Domonoky:-)
11:43:27DerPapstLlorean: that might even work with the firmware including aupd dd'ed from your nanos firmware partition
11:43:58stripwaxbuilding now ..
11:44:19LloreanDerPapst: So I need to download the firmware from that link, decrypt it with that tool, then DD it to /dev/sdb1?
11:44:28barrywardellstripwax: it's very simple to decrypt though - see tools/gigabeat.c
11:44:37linuxstbLlorean: What do you want to do?
11:44:47Lloreanlinuxstb: Upgrade to 1.3 including flash.
11:44:56LloreanThough I'd like to get a good dump of my ROM first.
11:45:07stripwaxbarrywardell - so rbutil would need to include the decrypt code for gigabeat. I see this getting more complicated, not less .. hmmm.
11:45:18linuxstbThen just "dd" (or use ipodpatcher -w) to write the Firmware-X.Y.Z file you can get from the "felixbruns.de" site.
11:45:36barrywardellstripwax: yes,it would
11:45:38scorcheLlorean: that is in the link i posted above
11:45:45Lloreanlinuxstb: Okay.
11:45:50LloreanDo we know if it'll downgrade flash?
11:45:56stripwaxbarrywardell - thanks for the info! decrypting the bootloader and scanning it for a magic string just to find out what version it is seems like overkill for something simple.
11:46:02linuxstbLlorean: That's just an image of the firmware partition (with the "update me please" bit set in the AUPD header).
11:46:11Domonokystripwax: i would just let rbutil check the timestamp of the bootloader on the server, and let it write a bootloader.version file to the DAP..
11:46:14DerPapstLlorean: better not decrypt the aupd file and then dd it to your iPod... otherwise you end up with a brick
11:46:26stripwaxlinuxstb - what did you have against rbutil just writing the version string to .rockbox somewhere (and assume that the user doesn't manually update the bootloader any other way)?
11:46:39stripwaxDomonoky - hmm, not what linuxstb said
11:46:52Lloreanlinuxstb: Is the "update me please" bit always obeyed, or will it not update to older AUPD images?
11:46:53linuxstbstripwax: It's unreliable - users can delete .rockbox.
11:47:13DerPapstLlorean: that aupd decrypter could be used to have a dump of the internal flash without the need to dump it from rockbox.
11:47:15stripwaxlinuxstb - ok, but in that case I'd say it's safe to assume the user wants to reinstall the bootloader
11:47:34LloreanDerPapst: Ah, this is good since I can't dump mine for some reason. :)
11:47:49stripwaxunless reinstalling a new bootloader has adverse consequences, but I understood from y'days discussion that we always want to have users running the latest bootloader
11:48:07DerPapstLlorean: the firmware in the flash decrypts the aupd image itsself while updating.
11:48:08linuxstbLlorean: I don't know if you can download the flash.
11:48:15stripwaxso: if .version is missing, reinstall bootloader. otherwise, check .version against http timestamp
11:48:22Lloreanlinuxstb: You mean downgrade?
11:48:27linuxstbLlorean: Yes ;)
11:48:54stripwaxand since download.rockbox.org has only one version of the bootloader (the latest) I don't see how this could go wrong, and it seems a lot simpler..
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11:49:01DerPapstLlorean: you can downgrade when you have the old firmwarefile including an oder aupd image and the "flash me" bit set.
11:49:04LloreanAh well. At this point I'm reasonably certain 1.3 is what's causing the Nano problem.
11:49:44LloreanI'll upgrade tomorrow, after I've slept.
11:49:45DerPapstLlorean: you can get those older firmwares form older apple updater packages and a resource hacker tool.
11:49:53Domonokystripwax: thats nice and simple.. :-) just ask the user if he wants to install.. because on some targets it requieres extra steps to install the bootloader..
11:50:35LloreanDerPapst: What's the difference between for example the two different Nano 1G firmwares?
11:50:59DerPapstyou mean 1.2 and 1.3?
11:51:00stripwaxDomonoky - we discussed this y'day too I think. rbutil would say 'a new bootloader is available' but not do anything automatically for you, except for a first-time install
11:51:09LloreanDerPapst: No, 14.1.3.1 and 17.1.3.1
11:51:12LloreanI assume they're both 1.3.1
11:51:18DerPapstthey are the same
11:51:32DerPapsti don't know why apple has two of them
11:51:45LloreanThere could be some relevance there.
11:51:57LloreanIt's not been investigated?
11:51:59DerPapstLlorean: maybe a way for apple to distinguish if it is a white iPod or a black one
11:52:35DerPapstLlorean: maybe md5 says more...
11:52:48stripwaxDomonoky - are there any targets (that require extra steps to install the bootloader) where copying the latest bootloader to the device could be a problem? if rbutil just downloads and copies it automatically, even on those targets, there should be no issue. rbutil would then *additionally* say "hey I put the latest bootloader on your device, feel free to carry out the extra steps to install it if you wish"
11:52:57stripwaxDomonoky - are you thinking h1xx/h3xx?
11:53:14amiconnstripwax: It's not that simple on all targets
11:53:33amiconnE.g. the iaudios delete the bootloader from where it must be put for flashing
11:53:39Domonokystripwax: for irivers you need the user needs to provide an extra file..
11:54:04amiconnAnd the mere presence of the file causes them to flash the bootloader when powered up by plugging the charger
11:54:09DerPapstLlorean: to downgrade you could use one of them http://www.ipodlinux.org/Apple_Updaters and some tool to extract the firmware for the nano from it. ipodwizard does that and resource hacker (both windows tools :-/)
11:54:11LloreanDerPapst: 14 is 16 bytes larger.
11:54:13stripwaxDomonoky - yep, but if the user has already downloaded it (once) in the past, then that should be ok
11:54:16Domonokyfor some targets they need extra steps, like switching the battery switch.. or using the OF to flash..
11:54:38DerPapstLlorean: the ispw file or the actual firmware?
11:54:39stripwaxDomonoky - yes. but even on those, the presence of the latest bootloader.bin on the target filesystem shouldn't be a problem
11:55:16stripwaxamiconn - is there a wiki page describing that behaviour? not sure I understand it.
11:55:22LloreanDerPapst: The ipsw file
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11:56:02amiconnstripwax: If you want to flash an iaudo, you put the firmware file (in our case: the rockbox bootloader) into /SYSTEM on the target
11:56:33stripwaxamiconn - ok - so that's automatic, there's no manual step?
11:56:35amiconnThen you power down, and power up again by plugging the charger
11:56:38DerPapstLlorean: the ispw inculdes tro files... maybe there is a difference. I'll do a binary diff on the firmwares.
11:56:47amiconnThen the cowon loader will flash the file, and remove it from disk
11:56:57LloreanDerPapst: The firmwares themselves are identical
11:57:10stripwaxif the file is just left on disk (i.e. you don't power down), would it cause a problem?
11:57:16amiconnIt will not flash & remove if you power on by flicking the power slider without having the charger connected
11:57:22DerPapstso it's only the metadata file then...
11:57:28stripwaxor if you power down & power up again but without the charger could it brick the device?
11:57:33stripwaxok
11:57:37amiconnNo it won't
11:57:52amiconnbut rbuitl shouldn't put the file there unless flashing is desired
11:58:11stripwaxNot sure I understand why. Sounds like it will be ignored if the users doesn't do the flashing procedure
11:58:17amiconnAnd it must not rely on that file for version checking. That won't work
11:58:27*Domonoky thinks rbutil should just ask the user, and if he wants it, present the normal bootloader install screen..
11:58:41amiconnIt _will_ be flashed _and_ removed when powering on by plugging the charger
11:58:46LloreanDerPapst: The only difference is the value 14 vs 17 in the .plist file, and the addiction of <key>aboutBoxOrdering</key><integer>7</integer>
11:58:46Llorean
11:59:05DerPapstwas about saying then same...
11:59:10DerPapstbut too slow ;)
11:59:13amiconnNo an uncommon case, happens if you want to just charge the unit....
11:59:15stripwaxamiconn - right, and that's good, and if you don't power on, it won't be flashed, or removed. so I'm not sure I understand the problem. it will either flash or do nothing, no?
11:59:33LloreanOh, and displayinabout is true.
11:59:37stripwaxor is flashing to the latest bootloader a bad thing?
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12:00:18amiconnFlashing more often than necessary is generally bad, even though the procedure is very safe on iaudios
12:00:28amiconnIt takes time, and puts wear on the flash chip
12:00:33DerPapstLlorean: i think that only has meanings for iTunes. not sure which though
12:00:39stripwaxDomonoky - hm, maybe. I've spoken to rockbox users (ipod..) who neither know or care or understand what the bootloader is or what version it is, and if asked would almost certainly eihter click 'Yes upgrade' or 'No don't upgrade' ...
12:00:59amiconn(and the cowon loader has a bug that it cuts hdd power after flashing without spinning down, so you get a nasty hdd click)
12:01:01stripwaxamiconn - ok. but it would only flash if the bootloader is new, so .. is that more often than necessary?
12:01:02amiconn(emergency park)
12:01:21LloreanDerPapst: Interesting. Either way, it seems the firmware itself is identical.
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12:01:41Domonokystripwax: the best would be, to only check for a new bootloader after installing a new rockbox build (because then it could be needed)
12:01:48amiconnstripwax: My point is: rbutil can't rely on the bootloader file for version checking, because _it is not there_ most of the time
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12:02:11DerPapstLlorean: better make a backup of your firmware partition ;)
12:02:12stripwaxamiconn - I realise that, and that was my original point too - have rbutil write a .version file to the hdd.
12:02:25stripwaxrelying on the bootloader file for version checking was not my idea..!
12:02:28amiconnThat can be removed...
12:02:32Domonokyamiconn: thats not really a problem, if there is no bootloader.version, just skip the check.. :-)
12:02:43stripwaxamiconn - right, and if it's removed, assume you want a newer bootloader
12:02:46LloreanDerPapst: Won't do me much good unless you happen to know which bit I need to flip in it to get it to reflash the AUPD.
12:02:49DerPapstLlorean: maybe one could even reset the "flash me" bit so you can even downgrade the flash
12:03:05DerPapstmhh. good point :P
12:03:09LloreanHehe
12:03:20LloreanI don't think there's any reason for me to go 1.3 at this point though.
12:03:21stripwaxwhy would anyone dig around in .rockbox and remove bootloader.version while at the same time requiring that their bootloader isn't upgraded? seems like an unlikely combination of events
12:03:41LloreanI'm almost positive I'll just join the ranks of non-working Nanos
12:03:43linuxstbstripwax: My point was that in some cases rbutil can access the actual bootloader that's installed - so to me it seems better to check that (it will never be wrong). It just seems the "right thing".
12:03:51DerPapstIt seems that the firmware on the flash doesn't check if the aupd image on the firmware partiiton is newer or not.
12:04:22Lloreanlinuxstb: fwiw, I agree that whenever the bootloader is on disk it should be checked.
12:04:25Domonokylinuxstb: but checking for a .version file would work on every DAP so no special solutions for every dap..
12:04:28DerPapsti was able to downgrade my flash firmware.
12:04:31DerPapston my 5.5G
12:04:33stripwaxlinuxstb - I agree with that - and for ipod I think it could work quite well - but in those cases there seems to be no downside to installing a newer bootloader if the version is missing, so I'd rather KISS
12:05:11DerPapstLlorean: you can downgrade it to with a 1.2 firmwarefile with the "flash me" bit set.
12:05:21linuxstbChecking the bootloader is simple - for ipods (and Sansa), it would just be a small function in ipodpatcher/sansapatcher.
12:05:35pixelmabarrywardell: I corrected the date of your post on the test_fps site (hope that was right) ;)
12:05:36stripwaxand for gigabeat requires include the decrypt code in rbutil
12:05:37Domonokyif you check the bootloader, you have to make checking code for every target, if you use a .version file it works for every dap..
12:05:52pixelmabarrywardell: I mean in the "date" column
12:06:08 Quit Jens (Nick collision from services.)
12:06:14linuxstbDomonoky: We have bootloader manipulation code already for each target, so it's just adding an extra function to that API (where it's possible).
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12:07:18stripwaxwhat should the fallback be when it's not possible?
12:07:32barrywardellpixelma: thanks. I forgot to change the year
12:07:34linuxstbA /.bootloader.version file (in the root, not .rockbox)
12:07:58amiconnBah, root clutter
12:08:05stripwaxroot? hmm..
12:08:16linuxstbamiconn: I assume you won't be using rbutil though...
12:08:31linuxstbBut put it in .rockbox if you want...
12:08:32 Nick Jens is now known as Jens-Rex (i=Jens@pdpc/supporter/active/Jens)
12:08:40barrywardellstripwax: the gigabeat code is just one function though....
12:08:50stripwaxok
12:08:58DerPapstLlorean: mind if i pm you?
12:09:16Domonokywe should stop discussing this, and someone should implement it :-)
12:09:18LloreanI don't mind.
12:09:34amiconnhrmpf :(
12:09:45stripwaxDomonoky - I was .. :)
12:09:52Domonokystripwax.. :-)
12:09:56stripwaxnot sure whether I should just start again or what .. :)
12:10:21amiconnRockbox freezes at the logo just by allowing the check for GPIO interrupts, even if they're not actually enabled
12:10:28amiconn(on PP5002)
12:10:37Domonokystripwax: implement it for rbutilQt.. if you need help, ask me :-)
12:10:48stripwaxDomonoky - I am ... !
12:10:52*stripwax hmms
12:11:54Domonokybut the bootloader installation isnt complete for rbutilQt.. sansas and irivers are still missing..
12:12:58stripwaxDomonoky - well, iriver will just have to be a .bootloader.version file so should be easy ...
12:13:03amiconnBut ipl has that working, so I must be missing something important :(
12:14:01amiconnLlorean: I wonder whether the old setup (from 13991) will work on those nanos when pushed to 80MHz
12:14:21amiconn(iirc you said that 13991 works but svn with 78MHz does not)
12:15:10amiconnNot that it makes much sense as it (also?) seems to depend on the flash loader, but PP _is_ weird after all
12:15:29Lloreanamiconn: Yes, though one person is reporting some strangeness even with 13991 (corrupt audio, though, which could be something different entirely)
12:15:51amiconnAre you able to dump flash with 13991?
12:15:54LloreanNope
12:15:57LloreanI tried that. :)
12:16:14LloreanI need to sleep now though, it's past 5AM.
12:16:26LloreanI'll check in the logs when I wake, but I'll be traveling.
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12:23:18_jzhi there
12:23:29stripwaxhello
12:23:32_jzwasn't there supposed to be a new jpeg viewer with auto-fit image on screen ?
12:24:37stripwaxwas there?
12:24:59amiconnThe jpeg viewer does fit the image on screen...
12:25:44amiconn(well, unless it's too large to fit even at 1/8 zoom)
12:25:49amiconnIt always did
12:28:50_jzfor me it doesn't
12:28:58_jzvery often the image is very small in the center
12:29:27amiconnIt's never smaller than 1/2 screen width and 1/2 screen height
12:29:37_jzand i don't remember the name of who told me that there was a new "fit to screen" function that should be implemented already
12:29:45amiconn(unless the image _is_ that small)
12:29:49_jzthat's what i call _small_ !! (on a sansa ;)
12:30:38pixelmabut it does not scale the jpg to the exact screen size - it scales so it fits on the screen completely but you can zoom - if it's small then the next zoom step will a bit larger than the screen
12:30:41amiconnWell, it's fit to screen. The jpeg viewer can only handle zoom stages of 1, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8
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12:38:44stripwaxhttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7497
12:38:54stripwaxsomething like this?
12:40:49_jzhaa ok so the problem is with the zooming abilities of the jpeg viewer
12:40:52_jznow i understand
12:41:12Domonokystripwax: releasing new bootloaders is not an easy task, they need to be tested (depends on the target how important its is)
12:41:19_jzdo you know if there's a way to bypass the "refresh database" the OF of the Sansa does on every boot, before you can access USB ?
12:41:53stripwaxDomonoky - yep. could adding 14 bytes to the binary break something?
12:42:29amiconnIt should be possible to make a fast fixed point downscaler for the jpeg viewer, but I don't know of any such project
12:42:53stripwaxlinuxstb - it seems deceptively simple so would like to check I didn't miss something!
12:43:05barrywardell_jz: yes, the rockbox bootloader does that, but currently only with certain firmware versions
12:43:20Domonokystripwax: not really, but e.g. iriver bootloaders are older, and nobody knows if there currrent svn version works..
12:43:37amiconnThis would choose the smallest image bigger than the screen for decoding instead of the biggest image smaller than the screen, and then downscale for exact fit
12:43:39_jzhmmm
12:43:40Domonokyand irivers are bricks, with a non working bootloader..
12:43:44stripwaxalso, until the updated bootloaders *and* .version files are available on the server, rbutil is no better off
12:43:47_jznot on the e250 obviously...
12:44:15_jzit's too bad, because i will _never_ use the OF anymore for anything else than USB transfers, so i really don't care about it's database :)
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12:44:34Domonokystripwax: why dont check the timestamp of the file on the server, when there is no .version file ?
12:44:37_jzplus, every time you boot the OF, it creates its stupid directory structure with PHOTO / MUSIC / tmp etc...
12:44:46_jzthis cannot be bypassed ?
12:44:56barrywardell_jz: i mean firmware version, not sansa version...
12:45:10stripwaxDomonoky - timestamp != version however
12:45:11*_jz doing his first wps, extending the great "Cassette" wps :)
12:45:15_jzhaaa i see
12:45:22_jzso i should upgrade the sansa firmware you think ?
12:45:39barrywardellit works with 1.01.11 or 1.00.12
12:45:57Domonokystripwax: sure, but the timestamp is enough to detect if there is a new version.. :-)
12:46:27barrywardell_jz: yes, if you upgrade to either of those, then install the rockbox bootloader again, it should bypass the database rebuild when usb is plugged in.
12:46:43_jzhmmm that's a great gain of time !
12:46:48_jzis the firmware upgrade safe ?
12:47:26stripwaxDomonoky - yep - but! - what will go into the bootloader.version file if the bootloader itself does not contain any version information?
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12:47:37stripwax.bootloader.version on target that is
12:47:39barrywardellyes, there are a lot of recovery options if anything happens to go wrong
12:48:02stripwaxi'm not sure I see the value in coding up two alternative schemes if one is going to be redundant as soon as new bootloaders are built
12:48:12stripwaxunless new bootloaders are not going to be built ..
12:48:27_jzgreat :)
12:48:41Domonokystripwax: put two things in the .version file, a timestamp and a version.. and you could leave the version out :-) like making the .version file a ini file..
12:49:54_jzhoo... there's only a .exe binary on Sansa website :(
12:50:16_jzisn't there a way to upload Sansa's firmware from GNU/linux (sorry if the question isn't _directly_ rb related ;)
12:50:33barrywardellyou can get the mi4 from http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200/1.01.11A/PP5022.mi4
12:50:43stripwaxDomonoky - yes, and the timestamp will be redundant as soon as the bootloaders including this magic string.
12:50:47barrywardellput it on you sansa, then power off and back on
12:51:09Domonokystripwax: yes, but then you dont need to build new bootloaders for every target..
12:51:12_jzgreat !
12:51:16_jzjust in the root of the sansa ?
12:51:25barrywardellyes
12:51:34_jzkixass thanx
12:51:56barrywardellthat will install the sansa firmware, then you'll need to run sansapatcher again to re-install the rockbox bootloader
12:52:11stripwaxin that case, we're sort of back to what we originally suggested, where we just compare timestamps..! which is fine, i'll just go back to doing that, and maybe extend it when new bootloaders are built
12:52:27Domonokystripwax: that would be good..
12:52:53_jzi wish someday some company installs rockbox as a default on it's player
12:53:12_jzon each sale they could do a donation to rockbox equal to 1/3 of what R&D and developping and UI would have cost ! :)
12:53:20Domonokyi think especially the iriver bootloaders, will only be rebuilt if there is some really important code changes.. because of the risks..
12:53:25stripwaxtru3e
12:53:40_jzmaybe there should be a special licencing condition for companies distributing it on their devices :)
12:53:52_jz"like _you have_ to pay if you do so, contact us so we negociate" :)
12:54:04*stripwax goes back to yesterday
12:54:21belze__jz: then you would have to put alot of work into the gui
12:54:26 Quit thomasg__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:54:30belze_for now it is still a geek-firmware
12:54:53_jzyeah it's true
12:54:59_jzi'm just dreaming :)
12:55:44_jzbut one day, with unified (logical) controls, a smooth nice accessible wps, and a very few clean and "finished" plugins... ?
12:56:07_jzi mean the equalizer, pitch, crossfading options may make any audio-lover drool, whether geek or not !
12:56:21amiconn?
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12:57:04_jzwell forget it, just dreaming out loud :)
12:57:18_jzdo the peak meter consume much more cpu/battery when enabled ?
12:57:48*amiconn thinks that eq and audiophiles don't go together
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12:58:05amiconnAnd crossfade is a matter of taste, I'll never use it
12:58:48TiMiD[FD]amiconn: congratulation for the ipod 1&2G port
12:58:57TiMiD[FD]you're advancing pretty fast
12:59:03amiconn!
12:59:16amiconnSeems our irq stack is too small...
13:00
13:00:33_jzamiconn: for parties and/or random electronic music playlists it kicks ass
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13:01:14amiconnWee, snappy scroll wheel! :D
13:02:32Domonokyamiconn: would you like to give stripwax commit access ? so he can work better on rbutil ? :-) i dont want to commit all his patches *heh*
13:02:38DerPapstamiconn: the firmware dumps from a nano... do they contain something like zeropadding at the end (e.g. 1/2MB)?
13:02:44amiconnDomonoky: I can't
13:02:54amiconnThere are only 3 people who have that power
13:03:12DerPapstand none of them is here as usual...
13:03:15Domonokyamiconn: only the swedes can ?
13:03:18TiMiD[FD]Domonoky: write a mail to danniel
13:03:19*JdGordon wonders if 7408 is needed?
13:03:47TiMiD[FD]daniel[at]rockbox.org
13:04:19DerPapstamiconn: i'm asking because i have decrypted aupd images from nano 1G fw. ver 1.2 and 1.3.1 here. in case you might be interested.
13:08:12 Quit morrijr (Remote closed the connection)
13:09:49_jzhttp://tofz.org/stuff/Cassette-red.zip < if anyone is interested
13:10:06_jzit's the Cassette theme, with a red cassette and the title of the next song displayed
13:10:07amiconnDerPapst: I don't know, I'd have to compare them with a real dump
13:10:09 Quit miepchen^schlaf ("Verlassend")
13:10:11_jz(for sansa)
13:10:21_jzi'll do it with a black cassette afterwards :)
13:10:48amiconnDerPapst: Btw, I seem to have found the problem with the GPIO IRQ and now have an interrupt driven button driver for the g1..g3
13:11:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:11:22amiconnReally snappy wheel operation, but button hold isn't quite correct yet
13:11:36amiconn(hold disables buttons but not the wheel)
13:12:31DerPapstheh
13:12:44DerPapsti though hold is a hardware hold
13:12:52amiconnNot on the g1 and g2
13:13:01DerPapstaha...
13:13:08amiconn(not for the wheel)
13:13:39DerPapstamiconn: want the dumps anyway? i bet they are valid. they just don't contain the padding at the end.
13:13:51DerPapstyou can pm me your mail adress if you want.
13:13:56amiconnPadding in flash is usually 0xff
13:14:21amiconnmrf
13:14:33amiconnNow that I changed a tiny thing, it hangs again!?
13:14:37DerPapstas i said.. they don't contain any padding.
13:16:20DerPapstoh.. the aupd images contain the apple stopsign too...
13:17:54amiconnhmpf
13:18:30DerPapstwth.. they contain widows paths... like "c:\buildtools\1.2\M26Firmware.proj\projectfiles\sandbox\Firmware\BootLoader\btMm.c,line:%d-"
13:18:52DerPapstdoes that mean apple devs develop the apple fw on windows?!
13:19:00amiconnI think so
13:19:20amiconnIirc that's also present in the firmware
13:19:39DerPapstthat is heresy!!1
13:21:14DerPapstfrom time to time a apple employee that worked on iPods and the iPhone drops into #ipl.. gotta have to ask him ;)
13:22:29DerPapstseems like the flashbootloader is one single c file...
13:26:21DerPapstamiconn: i case you want them... here they are: http://217.235.18.245/ipod/
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13:28:06DerPapsts/i/in
13:28:08DerPapst:P
13:30:40 Quit GodEater ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
13:31:53amiconnSeems like I'm performing a firewire socket stress test :/
13:33:19DerPapsthehe...
13:33:23DerPapstwhat do you do?
13:33:49amiconncompile - install - test - compile - install - test - compile ....
13:34:50amiconnI am wondering why we need so much irq stack on pp5002
13:35:15amiconnThis doesn't make sense; the handlers are small...
13:37:10*PaulJam now has a 40GB drive in his H320 :)
13:38:09PaulJamThe new drive is much quieter than the old one.
13:40:16 Quit Nick_Brakley ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
13:42:03PaulJamI'm not sure if this is a bug in the bootloader USB mode, but after i installed the new HD i connected it to the PC and after windows installed the drivers i used the savely remove hardware and disconnected the player (i did not create a partition). after that the player only showed a blank screen and i had to use the reset button.
13:42:35amiconnIt's a known bug in the bootloader
13:42:46amiconnLinusN wanted to fix that months ago :(
13:42:53PaulJamok, thanks for the information
13:42:56amiconnIt just hangs when there is no partition
13:43:26pixelmaoh neat, 40GB single platter... may I ask how much it was and where you have it from?
13:44:14PaulJampixelma: it was from ebay (eurotecc)
13:45:08PaulJampixelma: http://cgi.ebay.de/Toshiba-1-8-ATA-40GB-HD-iPod-3-4-Gen-MK4007GAL_W0QQitemZ250136758596QQihZ015QQcategoryZ64696QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
13:45:32pixelmathanks
13:46:11pixelmahmm... quite some money
13:47:23stripwax£73 from span.com
13:47:28stripwaxhttp://www.span.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=23_504_1801
13:47:49stripwaxalthough out of stock..
13:49:36stripwaxis there such a thing as a zif interface adapter, to enable connecting the newer drives to older hardware?
13:49:55pixelmaPaulJam: wonder what they would have done if you had send them your iriver for the exchange service (the offer sounds very confident that it'll be an Ipod 3rd/4th gen)
13:53:56PaulJamstripwax: there is a PDF that describes how to build a zif-ide adapter. and there is also a company (savannah systems or similar)working on producing one.
14:00
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14:04:54TiMiD[FD]I was wondering about something
14:05:36TiMiD[FD]since a lot of players are aging, wouldn't it make sense to allow the user to define a battery capacity below the capacity of the stock battery ?
14:05:48TiMiD[FD]to lower the BATTERY_CAPACITY_MIN
14:06:30TiMiD[FD]so that in the gui we can choose a capacity that gives us a more accurate remaining playback time
14:06:46belze_there is a menu-setting to do that
14:08:34TiMiD[FD]cannot go below BATTERY_CAPACITY_MIN
14:08:50TiMiD[FD]and on iriver for example BATTERY_CAPACITY_MIN is set to the default batery capacity
14:11:50TiMiD[FD]I wonder if setting this lower would hurt low power auto shutdown for example
14:11:55belze_ah, ok
14:13:07 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
14:13:24 Quit PaulJam (".")
14:15:38pixelmaI would think that low power shut down is based on voltage...
14:15:49TiMiD[FD]I'll check
14:16:13jhMikeSJdGordon: there? I think I have something that will work nicely for sd insertion.
14:26:42amiconnhrrrrm
14:26:55amiconnIt seems something isn't quite right on PP5002
14:27:09amiconnIt almost seems the cop isn't sleeping even though it should be
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15:11:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:57:19JdGordonjhMikeS: am now
15:59:05jhMikeSJdGordon: hey. so you can try it out?
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15:59:44JdGordonyeah
15:59:48jhMikeShttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/viewfile/Main/MichaelSevakis?rev=5;filename=rockbox.mi4
16:00
16:00:38JdGordoncan you dcc instead? firefox likes to display the file instead of downloading it
16:01:21JdGordonactually... dw
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16:01:29jhMikeSI can try but it's never worked here. The IRC client is updated so maby.
16:02:54JdGordonperfect....
16:03:00JdGordonthere is a slight delay, but it shows
16:03:29JdGordonmake the delay shorter and commit :)
16:03:41jhMikeSThe delay is exacly the change...1s
16:03:42barrywardelljhMikeS: 13821 seems to have broken the Gigabeat bootloader: "*PANIC* Error! tick_add_task(): out of tasks". Any idea what caused that?
16:04:12jhMikeSbarrywardell: what was in that? (like I remember :)
16:04:26barrywardellit was the lcd update
16:05:23jhMikeSit's breaks at exactly that?
16:05:24barrywardell"Gigabeat: properly confined framebuffer copies and a few pendantic changes to lcd_yuv_blit."
16:05:24JdGordonjhMikeS: HZ/2 delay instead?
16:05:44barrywardellyes, 13820 works fine, but 13821 doesn't
16:06:36jhMikeSJdGordon: sure. it's using a new timeout api. I'm not sure exactly how I want it implemented yet. just a first attempt.
16:06:57JdGordonoh ok
16:07:15 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:07:15JdGordondoes anyone object to adding the option to reverse the playlist order?
16:07:30jhMikeSbarrywardell: I'm thinking about what could possibly have had any effect on ticks of all things.
16:07:36JdGordonI've got it working except trying to work out how to add it to the playulist control
16:07:50JdGordonwas there a tick task with the old scrolling?
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16:08:08barrywardelljhMikeS: There doesn't seem to be anything related to ticks in the code you added
16:08:22jhMikeSJdGordon: the sansa wheel? no...that's all the same
16:08:42jhMikeSbarrywardell: indeed. that's what's bugging me. :\
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16:14:15jhMikeSsomething would have to be overwriting the tick function array to make it fail. grrr.
16:17:57JdGordondoes anyone kknow how to tell the wps the playlist has changed?
16:19:46jhMikeSJdGordon: so that Next: is updated?
16:19:53JdGordonyeah
16:20:33 Quit Galois ("Leaving")
16:21:33JdGordon... and to get playback to buffer the new next tracks
16:23:57*jhMikeS is going to try to delete the next track from a playlist and see what happens.
16:25:07jhMikeSseems to work, so I suppose it's workable from there
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16:27:29rasherDomonoky/stripwax, may I ask what was wrong with the old Talkfile button? To be honest, the new one looks much worse (but is admittedly a better metaphor)
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16:30:20leftrightJdGordon: why dont you implement Random Directory as part of the main program, instead of it being a plugin ?, seems like a worthy task
16:31:06JdGordonit is part of the core... the plugin is needed to generate the list of folders, because it was deemed bloat
16:31:17*JdGordon wanted it in the core from the very beginig
16:31:37leftrightaha, thanks for clarifying that
16:32:48leftrightproblem is that one can't exclude certain folders from the folder genrater, any way of impleting something to filter unwanted files, directories ?
16:32:59*Domonoky has a working iriver bootloader installer, for rbtuilQt.. :-)
16:33:37Domonokyrasher: if you make a nicer button, i am happy to include it :-)
16:34:18*jhMikeS suggest 1) little text files that contain directives for searches 2) a master list of directives for parts of rb (like what doesn't get searched for database/random, etc.)
16:34:31rasherDomonoky, well I can't improve it if you don't tell me what problem with the last one was. I thought it was nice and fit with the style of the other buttons. The new one looks rather out of place if you ask me
16:35:59Domonokyrasher: the new one has a good symbolic ( ie a talking dap) but it doesnt really fit..
16:36:06jhMikeSnot searching the recycle bin should be a standard entry
16:36:10leftrightanyting that will make editing of the random folder easier would be nice, as I now have to go back and edit the Random Folder file manually after every update to the music directory
16:36:32Domonokybut now i concentrate on rbutilQt, and this version doesnt have the talkfile button jet..:-)
16:36:54rasherDomonoky, I still think the microphone was preferable, since it looked right, even if it wasn't as good a metaphor
16:38:03JdGordonthere is a patch to add whitelist and blacklists to the random folder list generator
16:38:30leftrightand yes not searching the recycle bin would be nice, I have a directory for classical music nested in my music folder, and its a pain to have to remove those entries manually
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16:39:51jac0bI am trying to sync up a patch I want to use. What is the easiest way of looking at the code
16:39:56Domonokyrasher: revert it if you think the old one was better.. (i dont really care about the images, functionallity first ) :-)
16:41:03*Domonoky has now completed bootloader installation in rbutilQt.. :-)
16:41:06jac0b"looking" I mean comparing and finding the problems
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16:41:48Domonokyjac0b: apply the patch, and then take a look at the .rej files..
16:41:58Stalwartdoes anyone have bootloader build for nano which doesn't load appleos if keylock is on?
16:42:14Stalwartor maybe someone can build such thing for me?
16:42:15rasherDomonoky, I'm interested to hear what stripwax says, because the logs seem to indicate he saw the doom button
16:42:46Stalwartrockbox kicks ass so much i doubt i'll return to appleos
16:43:04jac0bokay got the rej file open. do these numbers mean line numbers *** 1278,1283 ****
16:43:22Domonokyjac0b: yes they are line numbers..
16:43:44jac0bdomonkey: okay thanks
16:43:49Galoismy nano doesn't boot at all with the keylock on
16:44:06 Quit leftright ("CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)")
16:44:10Stalwarteven if you o\plug in cable when lock is on?
16:44:47Galoisyeah
16:44:53Galoisif I plug in the cable, it boots halfway and then freezes
16:45:06Stalwartoften when i connect it to pc i forget to unlock keys and it loads appleos creating stupid default dirs =[
16:45:39Stalwartlooks like i'll need to set up toolchain and hack it myself...
16:46:04GaloisI think there are multiple bugs related to booting via the cable. Good luck ...
16:46:53Galoisseriously, ever since about March, the only way to connect the cable for me has been to turn it on first and then connect the cable
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16:49:10Viperb0yHi.. I got a "small" Problem. I installed rockbox and it works at my ipod 4th generation greyscale but after i turned it off, i want to turn it on, the "battery low" icon appeared and now I can't charge it, start it or do anything with my ipod :(
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16:51:30Galoisdo a reset
16:51:37Viperb0yHow?
16:52:14Galoishold both of the menu and select buttons down for about ten seconds until the apple logo shows up
16:53:00Viperb0yAh okay, works.. I'll remember that! Thank you :)
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17:10:38belze_Slasheri: u there?
17:11:23Slasheribelze_: hi
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17:11:47belze_ah, i was wondering if the iriverflashing could be also used on the h110?
17:11:53stripwax?
17:12:10Slasheribelze_: it should be possible if the bootloader is re-compiled for that player
17:12:17Slasheribut nobody has yet done that / tested it
17:12:34Slasheriplease talk to LinusN for example
17:12:35belze_hmm, i have a h110, but i guess the risk of briking it is quite high?
17:12:39Slasheriyes
17:12:52belze_ok, thx so far
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17:17:52InsectoidHas there been any focus toward, or development done on porting espeak or flight?
17:18:28Nico_PJdGordon: here ?
17:18:46InsectoidYeah, to rockbox...
17:19:04JdGordonNico_P: not for long
17:19:05*DerPapst redirects Insectoid to markun
17:19:05stripwaxInsectoid : - you mean this? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TextToSpeech
17:19:34Nico_PJdGordon: just wanted to ask you a few questions about your buffering.c version from merge.patch if you remember what you did in it....
17:19:39Insectoidstripwax: Thanks much.
17:20:07JdGordonNico_P: i tried not to change any of it, i think bufopen was modified
17:20:54Nico_PJdGordon: well one thing you changed is that in bufclose the handle isn't removed anymore, it's removed later
17:21:04Nico_Pwhy's that ?
17:21:32JdGordonumm.... i cant remember, might have been a mistake
17:22:00Nico_Palso why did you rewrite the codec thread ? can't we just change the callbacks in playback.c ?
17:22:25DerPapstfinally :D
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17:22:43JdGordonnot sure
17:25:40JdGordonbed time, ttyl
17:25:46 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
17:25:46TiMiD[FD]I'm just looking at the svn log fot rbutilqt, and I was thinking that it would be pretty nice to have all the interfaces (CLI, WX, Qt) using the same code for low level access instead of reinventing the wheel
17:26:37DomonokyTiMiD[FD]: would be nice, but thats not easy.. :-)
17:26:49linuxstbI'm assuming the plan is to delete rbutil-wx soon anyway?
17:27:23Domonokythe plan is to replace rbutilWx with rbutilQt when the Qt version has the same functionallity..
17:27:32linuxstbThat's what I mean...
17:27:48TiMiD[FD]it's not difficult to make a library that could handle firmware patching and stuffs like that
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17:28:19TiMiD[FD]having both wx and qt isn't disturbing for me
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17:28:37stripwaxrasher - just looked at logs. yep, the microphone icon had the wrong metaphor. feel free to delete my patch and use a different icon
17:28:38TiMiD[FD]some people prefer qt, other wx ...
17:28:55linuxstbTiMiD[FD]: I can't see us maintaining both UIs though...
17:29:00stripwaxi did see the doom icon on the *binary* downloaded from the wiki, but the microphone on a local build. maybe that was the confusion?
17:29:05Nico_PTiMiD[FD]: maintaining both would be a PITA
17:29:20linuxstbTiMiD[FD]: All the interested developers seem to be more than happy to use Qt.
17:29:31TiMiD[FD]the guys who did qt and wx are the same ?
17:29:43Domonokynearly..
17:29:47Nico_Pusing Qt makes me interested in working on rbutil :)
17:29:47TiMiD[FD]I prefer qt too, it's cleaner
17:30:02Domonokyonly Cassandra, who started it with wx, doesnt have time anymore..
17:30:13linuxstbCassandra started the wx version, then left. Domonoky carried on with the WX version. Then bluebrother started Qt, and afaik Domonoky is now switching sides ;)
17:30:33TiMiD[FD]ok
17:30:34Domonokylinuxstb: correct... :-)
17:30:36DerPapstdid she quit rockbox?
17:30:50linuxstb"currently inactive"
17:30:50TiMiD[FD]but would be nice to have cli and gui versions share the same code anyway
17:30:55DerPapstahh ok
17:31:08TiMiD[FD]doesn't mean she quit ^^
17:31:12Nico_PTiMiD[FD]: CLI would be cool indeed
17:31:21TiMiD[FD]I've been inactive for 2 years :)
17:31:32DerPapstwelcome back :P
17:31:37TiMiD[FD]aren't there already cli tools to do what the gui does ?
17:31:39Domonokycommand line interface shouldnt really be a problem with the new code..
17:31:45stripwaxnot one single tool
17:31:50TiMiD[FD]yes
17:31:52TiMiD[FD]of course
17:31:57TiMiD[FD]separate commands
17:32:08stripwaxseparate tools are available, yes
17:32:17*Nico_P dreams of "install-bootloader /media/GIGABEAT" :)
17:32:28TiMiD[FD]but it seems that the code in the gui is just copied and past from the cli
17:33:07DomonokyNico_P: codewise its not really a problem, you create a BootloaderInstaller object, fill the info in, and call install.. ( only the error output has to be reworked..)
17:33:20linuxstbTiMiD[FD]: Which CLI(s)?
17:33:27TiMiD[FD]for example even the headers containing the md5 sums have been copied ...
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17:34:22DomonokyTiMiD[FD]: is only copyed those, because i wanted to move them into a seperate dir.. and didnt want to update the wx version...
17:34:29DerPapstcoding is always c&p. best example: Redmond...
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17:35:12TiMiD[FD]I mean those headers are present 3 times
17:35:22TiMiD[FD]for cli, wx and qt
17:35:23stripwaxin svn
17:35:29DerPapstvista probably still contains code introduced in win 3.1
17:35:29TiMiD[FD]http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/tools/fwpatcher/h100sums.h
17:35:37TiMiD[FD]http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/rbutil/rbutilqt/irivertools/h100sums.h
17:35:54stripwaxso this could all be refactored
17:36:03TiMiD[FD]would be nice yes
17:36:16Domonokyah.. there are in the fwpatcher dir, because i rebuild fwpatcher, and didnt link it ( fwpatcher is windows only, i think)
17:36:23stripwaxactually i thought you were suggesting rbutil should be a wrapper around the cli tools
17:36:46TiMiD[FD]not really a wrapper
17:36:48Domonokystripwax: normally yes, and it is for the patchers code..
17:36:51linuxstbBut aren't both fwpatcher and rbutil-wx obsolete now? i.e. when the functionality is in rbutil-qt, they can both be removed from svn?
17:37:01Domonokyyes
17:37:16TiMiD[FD]but there should be a library providing access to basic functions used by both cli and rb util
17:37:16stripwaxbut only if you want to remove the cli tool .. ?
17:37:35*Domonoky thinks fwpatcher isnt cli..
17:37:42stripwaxah. sorry!
17:37:52TiMiD[FD]fwpatcher is gui yes
17:38:14TiMiD[FD]it was just an example
17:38:16Domonokythats why i rebuilt the functionality in rbutil (irivertools)
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17:38:33Domonokyand sansapatcher and ipodpatcher are used directly..
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17:40:35DomonokyTiMiD[FD]: but of course if you find a way to generalyse such basic functions, please do it :-)
17:41:36TiMiD[FD]generalise ?
17:42:02Domonokylike a basic library for both gui and cli... (think about the error handling :-) )
17:42:27TiMiD[FD]error handling can be done without problem with exceptions ....
17:42:49TiMiD[FD]mixing gui and processing code is generally not a good idea anyway
17:43:42Domonokybut on the Gui i want an error log from the different functions, if something goes wrong.. (like at the moment done with the progress window)
17:44:29 Quit alienbiker99 ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )")
17:45:52TiMiD[FD]with theads and messages passing it's not a big deal
17:46:38TiMiD[FD]if the process is gonna take a little long, it's always better to launch it in a different thread anyway
17:46:45TiMiD[FD]so that the gui doesn't get stuck
17:47:12DomonokyTiMiD[FD]: Gui doesnt get stuck, its asynchronus.. :-)
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17:47:24eudaemonsg'day
17:48:02Domonokytake a look at the BootloaderInstaller class in rbutilQt.. that could be nice to recode as generic (non-gui) class
17:48:22Domonokybut, its not easy :-)
17:50:34TiMiD[FD]sure
17:51:12TiMiD[FD]I have more fun with the code on the device though ^^
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17:51:21Domonoky:-)
17:51:25TiMiD[FD]even if I prefer object programming
17:52:36TiMiD[FD]the code in rockbox is sometimes so messy and duplicated
17:53:13TiMiD[FD]would be nice to have the whole system written in some object language ^^
17:53:35TiMiD[FD]of course it would probably eat a little more memory
17:53:58DomonokyTiMiD[FD]: that wont be good for code on the target, because of memory management..(remember no mmu on target)
17:53:59TiMiD[FD]and without malloc ot wouldn't be fun
17:54:15TiMiD[FD]I wonder if some targets have mmu
17:54:31Domonokygigabeat s.. but its not ready for rockbox :-)
17:54:40TiMiD[FD]haha yes
17:55:08TiMiD[FD]the problem without malloc is that the static buffers are always allocated for the worst case
17:55:17Domonokythat thing so overpowerd you could run windows on it... ups they do.. :-)
17:55:18TiMiD[FD]taking the maimum space
17:55:35TiMiD[FD]ah it runbs wince ?
17:55:45Domonokyi thinks so ..
17:55:55Domonokyor at least the zune which is the same cpu..
17:55:56TiMiD[FD]then linux would be more ppropriate for this device ^^
17:56:31TiMiD[FD]rockbox is great because of the asm optimisations though
18:00
18:00:31TiMiD[FD]gonna go to bed anyway
18:00:39TiMiD[FD]1am here
18:00:49TiMiD[FD]and 1 dates to handle tomorrow
18:00:57TiMiD[FD]2
18:01:27DerPapstgood night
18:01:36TiMiD[FD]thank you
18:01:53DerPapst:)
18:02:09TiMiD[FD]have a nice coding day
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18:10:49galdorhi
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18:11:24galdordoes anyone know why plugging USB on m my iAudio X5 with Rockbox stop music ?
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18:11:54galdorisn't it possible to reload battery on my laptop during listening
18:12:18GodEater_galdor: on most players there's a button you should hold while you plugin in the usb lead to acheive that
18:12:35GodEater_for instance on the Gigabeat and the iPod you hold down "menu"
18:12:46galdorisn't it managed by rockbox ?
18:12:48GodEater_and it stops it going into disk mode, and you can continue listening to your music
18:12:55GodEater_galdor yes it is
18:13:09galdorok, so i've just to search the good key :)
18:13:35GodEater_yes. unfortunately I don't own an X5 so I don't know which one it's going to be.
18:13:41galdorok, thank you
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18:41:50a1titudeWhat is meant by "188%" decoding speed, is this in full clock speed of a audio player? if that makes any sence
18:43:18DerPapstyes. fully boosted
18:43:36DerPapstmeasured with the test_codec plugin
18:43:52a1titudeahh, thanks
18:44:32a1titudeso in normal use of the player is the "under-clocked" or not?
18:44:40a1titude*is it
18:44:57DerPapstit boosts and unboosts frequently.
18:45:13DerPapstunboosted it can't decode the mp3 fast enoough
18:45:28DerPapstit would skip every few seconds
18:46:41 Quit ptw419 ()
18:47:10a1titudethanks for the answer, I have an interest in the stuff, just don't know much about it. :)
18:48:20Soul-SlayerIs there a reason why, on the Gigabeat, the LCD Off option is in Debug and not under LCD settings? And is there a reason the setting doesn't save?
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19:49:14netmasta10btis there anyway to get the scrolling behaviour on e200 the way it was on jul21 with the new scroll code?
19:54:05Soapnetmasta10bt: is the scrolling behavior, in your opinion, only worse than July 21's when _not_ playing music, or is the scrolling behavior now worse _even when_ playing music?
19:54:59netmasta10bthmm i didnt try while playing −− i can do that
19:57:14netmasta10btSoap: yes, its only bad when not playing
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19:58:14Soapthat is a result of frequency scaling being re-added to the Sansa.
19:58:40netmasta10btSoap: its still different (not as smooth) when playing, but a lot better
19:58:46netmasta10btahh ok
19:59:28netmasta10btwell if I get better battery life I'll take it :)
20:00
20:00:46netmasta10btthanks for the help
20:00:57SoapWhen you are not playing music, the CPU is running at a lower speed, and running slow enough that the scrolling/LCD code shows its less-than-perfect state. The correct solution is still up for debate last _I_ saw (boost CPU while scrolling vs. make scrolling more efficient), but it is a known issue. iPod (esp. 5th Gen.) users have been dealing with this for a while.
20:02:03Soul-SlayerIs there a reason why, on the Gigabeat, the LCD Off option is in Debug and not under LCD settings? And is there a reason the setting doesn't save?
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20:21:09doc|homeI'm using an iriver h320 and encoding an mpg using mplayer but it's like the playback is slightly in slow motion only on the iriver. The original file is fine. Anyone got any idea why that might be?
20:21:24doc|homeaudio is fine on both
20:21:50Soapare the audio and video out of sync?
20:22:26doc|homeon the iriver? yes, with the mpg being played on my computer? no
20:23:57barrywardellSoul-Slayer: I think the LCD Off wasn't working well and didn't give any power saving benefit anyway
20:25:30Soapdoc|home: do you have frame-skip enabled in mpegplayer?
20:26:26 Quit JensRex ()
20:26:31doc|homelet me check, the default is on and I haven't changed itafaik
20:26:34doc|home*it afaik
20:27:38Soul-Slayerbarrywardell: Ah ok, thanks.
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20:27:51doc|homeSoap: hmmm, where is that option?
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20:29:12SoapI don't know the key-mappings on the H3xx, but the normal Menu button should bring up the mpegplayer menu (while in mpegplayer) with the three options "Limit FPS", "Show FPS", and "Skip Frames"
20:29:30towlie-celli installed rockbox on my ipod and now i want tto remove it. how do i do that
20:29:48Soapdoc|home: the wiki says your menu key in mpegplayer is the "A-B" button.
20:29:55doc|homeah, ok, sorry
20:30:11Soaptowlie-cell: delete the .rockbox folder and use ipodpatcher to remove the bootloader.
20:30:32doc|homeSoap: it's on
20:30:55doc|homeI enabled show fps, looks like I'm only getting 7.1
20:31:14Soapthat's to be expected.
20:31:37doc|homehmmm, could that be the cause?
20:32:27Soapbut if you aren't getting sync, even with Limit FPS on and Skip Frames on, you are supposed to check out this thread: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9583.0 (according to the "Known Bugs" section of the wiki)
20:32:47doc|homecool, thanks
20:32:49Soapcheck out and submit a link it says.
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20:36:42doc|homewill do
20:37:46 Quit webguest75 (Client Quit)
20:38:41Soap8 pages of thread to read through ;) but could be helpful.
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20:42:51doc|home:)
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21:00
21:11:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:11:52 Quit robin0800 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:12:18doc|homeis rockboy part of the normal distribution? I don't seem to have it
21:18:42 Quit robin_0800 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:20:52Soapit is a viewer
21:21:09Soap"launch" a gameboy rom and it will load rockboy
21:21:29doc|homeah, ok, cool
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21:22:22papabearrhello?
21:22:36Soapsection 8.3.4 of the maual
21:22:47papabearranyone there?
21:22:51Soapsection 8.3.4 of the manual even
21:23:29 Quit papabearr (Client Quit)
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21:23:49Soapthere are 109 people here papabearr. Though the weekends are a slower time, and esp. at this time of day, feel free to simply ask you question, and next time someone with the answer looks at their computer screen it most likely will get answered/
21:25:23doc|homeSoap: thanks, just it was listed in http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-h300/rockbox-buildch9.html#x12-1860009.3.4 as a plugin so was expecting to see something there. sorry.
21:26:47Soapactually, doc|home, if you scroll up you'll see all the subsets of section 9.3 are viewers.
21:27:08doc|homeah, ok, thanks
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21:33:18zootedIs there any way to reboot a frozen ipod 3g, other than letting the battery run out?
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21:39:29Domonokyzooted: hold menu + select for about ~ 30 sec.. i think..
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21:58:24linuxstbzooted: Hold MENU+PLAY to reboot. REW+FFWD together enter disk mode (immediately after a reboot) if you need to.
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22:00
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22:08:08AceNikguys im switching from cygwin to VMware is it advisable, & can t copy the contents of the same source of cywin to the vmware stuff
22:08:24 Quit zooted (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:10:05linuxstbAceNik: Most people seem to prefer vmware. But you can always delete the vmware installation and go back to cygwin if you don't like it. And yes, you should be able to copy your Rockbox source tree from cygwin to vmware.
22:10:57AceNiklinuxstb: ok may i ask what is the imae of rockbox of 217MB, like it needs 2GB on unzip?
22:11:01AceNikimage
22:12:31 Quit dandin1 ()
22:21:29linuxstbAceNik: I'm not sure what you're asking.
22:22:30AceNikyou know in the wiki , there is a page that shows how to setup VMware, well there is a 217MB rockbox image, id like to know what is it & whether it is updated to the right version, its debian.7z
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22:24:37linuxstbOn the VMwareDevelopmentPlatform wiki page, the file is called Debian-4.7z
22:24:49AceNikya what is it ?
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22:37:23Soul-SlayerAceNik: I haven't used it, but at a guess I'd say it was the pre-setup linux image you use in conjunction with VMware
22:37:59AceNikSoul-Slayer: im on a windws system do i need it ?
22:38:39Soul-SlayerOf course, all VMware does is (I'll probably get told this is the wrong word to use but I will) emulates a linux image
22:38:54AceNikok
22:39:02Soul-SlayerVMware alone does nothing, you need something for it to emulate, that image is what you need to run through VMWare
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22:39:26AceNikok then whr do i paste the source files?
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22:40:10Domonokyyou have to run the VMware programm, then you should get access to its filesystem via Network...
22:40:32salty_horsehi. i'm looking in the sansa manual for details about the expected location and format of cover art.. can't find any :/
22:40:32AceNikok ill try it out
22:40:34AceNikthanks
22:41:20Soul-Slayersalty_horse: This is because Album Art is not a supported Rockbox feature yet.
22:41:43Soul-SlayerThere is a patch that allows it, but using vanilla Rockbox you won't be able to get cover art.
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22:41:58salty_horseSoul-Slayer, i've seen it around in screenshots - is it a popular patch?
22:42:10Soul-SlayerThe most popular patch I believe :p.
22:42:19Soul-SlayerCheck the unsupported builds on the forums
22:42:23doc|homehow come it hasn't been added?
22:42:25salty_horsealso, can you answer why it isn't supported? (or point me to the discussion)
22:42:30salty_horsewhat doc said :)
22:42:32Soul-SlayerIt's implemented in a way that isn't liked
22:42:44Soul-SlayerPeople are working on a way of getting it implemented to SVN
22:43:40salty_horsehttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AlbumArt
22:43:44Soul-SlayerI believe it's one of the things entered for the Google summer of code.
22:45:17Domonokyit is.. but its a long way...
22:45:48Soul-Slayerhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10535.0 and http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10956.0 are two Sansa unsupported builds including the Album Art patch, if interested.
22:46:54Soul-SlayerRead through the patches and decide which offers you the most useful stuff, if interested.
22:47:02 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:47:39salty_horsei don't understand the concept of track metadata as mentioned in CoverArt - is it the id3/ogg desc tags? or some rockbox database metadata?
22:47:47 Quit Soap (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:48:17Soul-SlayerAlbum art can be stored in the tracks ID3 info (Not sure on the other file types)
22:48:39 Join Soap [0] (n=Soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
22:48:41Domonokymetadata is all extra information which belongs to the track.. so id3, albumart, even the codec.. belongs to it :-)
22:49:07Soul-SlayerThe patch will only read cover art from a file named 'cover.bmp' in the same folder as the album
22:49:20Soul-SlayerWhich is highly limited if you haven't got your file structure set up like that
22:49:22Soapthe current patch?
22:49:39Soul-SlayerHave there been modifications to it?
22:49:50Soul-SlayerI was under the impression it could only read from a cover.bmp file in the albums path?
22:49:54salty_horsethis still confuses me: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AlbumArt#Currently - how is that current?
22:49:59Soapwhile cover.bmp is the first place it looks, does it not also look for <track name>.bmp and <album name>.bmp?
22:50:29Soul-SlayerAh, that I didn't know
22:50:55Soaphttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AlbumArt#Where_to_put_the_pictures
22:50:57Soul-Slayersalty_horse: That is what the patch currently does.
22:50:59linuxstbsalty_horse: What's confusing? Have you read the introductory paragraphs at the very top of the page?
22:51:11Soul-SlayerSoap: Ah yes, I see, thanks.
22:51:29*gxti resumes mangling his ipod
22:53:11salty_horseif the cover art used is the one in the file's dir, as mentioned in <http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AlbumArt#How_to_use>, then why does it look in the track's metadata to find the path?
22:53:31Soul-SlayerIt has to find the filename to look for
22:54:15salty_horseso the "metadata" is rockbox's metadata from the database?
22:54:27linuxstbsalty: It doesn't look in the track's metadata, rockbox looks for the bitmap at the same time as Rockbox reads the metadata. It's all to do with how Rockbox buffers the files and minimising disk spin-ups.
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22:55:57salty_horsegotcha. "disk spinups" are actually "disk access" in terms of flash memory, right? :)
22:56:13gxtireads cost nothing on flash :P
22:56:16Soul-SlayerDoesn't matter so much in terms of flash memory
22:56:26*gxti wonders where rockbox.org went
22:56:30salty_horsegxti, i think it does a bit. sec
22:56:52Soul-SlayerIt's just hard disk based DAPs, where disk spinups need to be reduced to save battery life
22:56:55gxtiright
23:00
23:01:57salty_horsegxti, can't find any immediate info on the power consumption, and i don't remember if what i've read once was about speed of different operations or the power
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23:02:33salty_horsein any case, using that unoptimized patch won't affect flash-based devices' battery life that much
23:03:14SoapI am no expert on power-draw issues, but I would (watch out!) assume that if there wasn't a penalty for accessing the flash Apple and Sandisk wouldn't have wasted the money puting DRAM in their flash based players.
23:04:30Bagderin apple's case, they _could_ have used the dram approach just to make the code identical to the hd units
23:04:45Bagderbut I don't think that's the case
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23:11:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:14:11Nico_PBagder: hi, any chance that you'd have some time to tak a look at git hosting ?
23:14:58Bagderyeah, I think I'll be able to take a look at it soonish, my vacation ends now
23:15:24Nico_Pseen http://repo.or.cz/w/Rockbox.git ?
23:15:33*linuxstb likes how Bagder has more time for Rockbox when he's supposed to be working...
23:15:54BagderNico_P: cool!
23:16:13Bagderlinuxstb: let's not dig into that too deep ;-)
23:16:35Nico_PBagder: it's not very practical though because someone has to manually push svn commits to that repo
23:16:39*linuxstb agrees with Bagder and puts the shovel down
23:17:44gxtitypically git would replace svn entirely
23:18:04Nico_Pgxti: we could have an official mirror
23:18:19gxtiwell, if you're going to mirror, you mirror the other way :P
23:18:24gxti(from git to svn)
23:19:00Nico_PBagder: also, have you seen http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GitVersionControl (esp. the last parts) ?
23:19:14gxtihm, come to think of it, i don't know of any such mirrors between distributed and non-distributed repos
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23:20:10radioaktivstormdoes the ipod shuffle 1G work with rockbox?
23:20:16*amiconn returns
23:20:36linuxstbBagder: What do you think of this format for MAINTAINERS? (I'm not sure any more...) - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/MAINTAINERS
23:20:49gxtiuh
23:20:58amiconnI think I know what the instability on the 2nd gen is - the same cpu scaling issue the PP5020 had
23:21:05 Quit HellDragon (Nick collision from services.)
23:21:23*amiconn will soon check that theory by building with cpu scaling disabled
23:21:35Bagderlinuxstb: I'm fine with that. Slightly more readable to the eye than my approach
23:22:12Nico_Plinuxstb: what about a space after the second colon ?
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23:22:46 Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!")
23:22:49Nico_Pand what is the first colon for ?
23:23:21 Nick HellDragon_ is now known as HellDragon (n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon)
23:23:26BagderNico_P: the first colon would be used to identify a maintainer line
23:23:38Soapradioaktivstorm: no.
23:23:57radioaktivstormah, thanks ^^
23:24:07Nico_PBagder: makes sense... :p
23:24:53Nico_Plinuxstb: in case you're thinking of committing, there are a few problems left in your file
23:26:10linuxstbWhat are they?
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23:27:25Nico_Plinuxstb: encoding errors (unless it's just my browser's fault), a stray A: left, a type in Björn's last name on the last line
23:27:37Nico_Ps/type/typo
23:27:45linuxstbencoding is your browser.
23:28:18Bagderwell, the page is claimed to be iso8859-1, while the content is utf8
23:28:23Domonokylinuxstb: could you add me to Rockbox Utility in your Maintainers list befor commiting ? :-)
23:29:19 Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.5/2007071812]")
23:29:23Nico_Plinuxstb: and what do you think of adding a few space ?
23:29:29linuxstbBagder: Then it's my web server. Firefox is displaying it as utf-8 for me.
23:29:43Bagderfunny, not for me
23:30:07amiconnlinuxstb: Thanks for tweaking & committing the libmad patch :)
23:30:18amiconnDo we have a standard test track now?
23:30:32linuxstbamiconn: No :(
23:30:39gxtithe vmware devel image is like a time machine
23:30:57gxtii haven't seen a desktop this ghetto in 5 years
23:30:59gxti:p
23:31:08linuxstbBut anyway, the file was utf-8 before I edited it, and still is.
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23:32:42gxtithe utf-8 is fine
23:33:16gxtithe server must have a default encoding of iso-8859-1
23:33:23linuxstbNico_P: Yes, a space would make it more (human) readable.
23:33:32Bagdertop-3 dl stats from build.rockbox.org in july 2007 so far: 13137 ipod video, 7002 ipod video 64mb, 6674 sansa e200
23:34:16amiconnIs it possible to get aggregated stats of all mirrors?
23:34:32SoapI gotta run, but if you want my 14 meg "meta" test track, amiconn, I'll post it later tonight.
23:34:46Bagderamiconn: no...
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23:35:49SoapIt doesn't pass the "> 200kbps LAME -V2" test, though. It is nothing more than a collection of segments from various genres of music harvested from the CC:SA licensed material on archive.org
23:37:19Soap14MB .wav in size because I was led to belive that would safely fit completely inside the buffer of all SW Codec players.
23:37:52amiconnMy theory seems to be correct :)
23:38:08amiconnSoap: Yes it should
23:38:10*gxti starts bisecting SVN to find what broke the bootloader on his (iPL-mangled?) nano
23:39:09Nico_PBagder: regarding git, I won't be able to be of any assitance during the next 10 days because I'll be on vacation, but GodEater will probably be happy to answer any questions
23:39:43*amiconn wonders whether he should commit that (after ironing out the remaining quirks)
23:40:04 Quit linuxstb_ ("Leaving")
23:40:13amiconnIs it a step back to achieve snappy scroll wheel and stable operation but sacrificing some runtime due to disabled scaling?
23:41:23amiconnIf that works, I would consider rockbox stable enough on the 2nd gen to offer a build + bootloader
23:42:02amiconnAlthough - there's the shutdown problem. Currently I reset the ipod and enter the OF if I want to put the ipod away for a while
23:42:21amiconn(Resetting from rockbox is simple - it's the shutdown button press)
23:42:21Bagderis it different enough to warrant a sim build of its own?
23:42:38amiconnWell, the keypad define is different
23:42:58amiconnBut currently no core screen or plugin makes use of that
23:43:06*Domonoky just commited Font and Doom installation for rbutilQt :-)
23:43:07amiconnAnd the 1st/2nd gen have no rtc
23:44:15 Quit davina ("xchat on Ubuntu 7.04")
23:46:16*linuxstb wonders what gtxi is bisecting in SVN
23:48:01Soul-SlayerDoes a port maintainer have to be a dev or would a typical end user running Rockbox daily on a specific port, able to report back bugs to the tracker (or here) suffice?
23:49:37Soul-SlayerBecause if it's practically anyone, is it worth being in the maintainer list?
23:51:13gxtilinuxstb: the 2007-07-26 nightly works on my nano, the 2007-07-27 nightly (and the latest build) get a 'No partition found' error
23:51:18gxtilinuxstb: so i figure i'll find what revision breaks it
23:52:00linuxstbgtxi: OK. It's just that you referred to the bootloader.
23:52:19amiconngxti: 14004, I'd expect
23:52:39*gxti siwtches linuxstb's t and x around
23:52:46amiconnI have some ideas what to try, but I'm a bit busy atm
23:53:07gxtiis the bootloader the bit that was installed by ipodpatcher?
23:53:15linuxstbgxti: Thanks ;) I'm in the web client with bad tab-completion
23:53:30*gxti switches his own i and w around
23:53:54linuxstbYes, ipodpatcher installs the bootloader.
23:55:04gxtithen the bootloader seems to be fine
23:57:09 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
23:58:15 Part radioaktivstorm
23:58:46amiconnlinuxstb: 129% -> 165% realtime with a 200kbps mp3 :)

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