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#rockbox log for 2007-09-04

00:00:10chrisjs169linuxstb, you don't really need to create it, it's still the encrypted copy
00:00:12linuxstbmarkun: In fact, forget that - Coldfire targets will most likely struggle...
00:00:19scorchechrisjs169: well, i havent touched sansas ;)
00:00:26chrisjs169just save it on to the Sansa (or both the e200 and e200R)
00:00:29chrisjs169scorche, ok ;)
00:00:50linuxstbchrisjs169: I just meant that you create it by renaming the original file...
00:00:54chrisjs169so I have somethign like e200.mi4 and e200r.mi4 - you can always rename/move them in rockbox
00:01:00chrisjs169linuxstb, ah, ok
00:01:10 Quit freqmod (Remote closed the connection)
00:01:29 Join Enterprise1701 [0] (i=820d6b5b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-c05ea6a1cb0366d4)
00:02:09*linuxstb notes that scorche's 15 minutes are up, so extends the time to 30 minutes
00:02:38 Join PanicByte [0] (n=PanicByt@c-71-192-197-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
00:03:12bluebrotherwhy 15 minutes?
00:03:24PanicBytehey, i just bought a Sandisk Sansa, i installed rockbox on it, and it works, except now it doesn't show up as a storage device in linux unless i boot into the original firmware, so i can't sync my music
00:03:32 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:03:42linuxstbbluebrother: No reason - just an arbitrary time...
00:03:46PanicByteanyone know how to make it show up as a mass storage device using the rockbox firmware
00:03:51PanicByte?
00:04:01linuxstbPanicByte: You boot into the original firmware....
00:04:14kugelthe svn bootloader works
00:04:16PanicByteevery time i want to sync i need to do that??
00:04:16 Quit jimmy_ ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]")
00:04:20advcomp2019PanicByte: that does not work i rockbox yet
00:04:26chrisjs169PanicByte, USB support is still in development
00:04:31PanicByteoh, alright
00:04:50*bluebrother wonders if /proc/bus/usb/devices is the best way to find out about the attached devices pids
00:04:54*chrisjs169 notices how three people just told PanicByte the same thing
00:05:02 Join lucky_ducky [0] (n=Miranda@rrcs-70-61-213-242.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
00:05:18PanicBytethis is my first Rockbox player, my last mp3 player was a 2nd gen nano :(
00:05:31PanicByte$99 for 4GB at circuit city, just got it today
00:05:34chrisjs169nice
00:06:00chrisjs169USB support via Rockbox on Sansas and iPods are still in development, so you need to use hte OF
00:06:22PanicBytemy nano's screen cracked, the weird thing is, i've dropped it so many times, and it never broke, and then it just develops a crack right out of the blue, i never dropped it or anything, it was just sitting on my desk, weird
00:06:59linuxstbscorche: How are things going?
00:07:13Enterprise1701Is there a need for another pair of hands working on the E200R?
00:07:18chrisjs169scorche: ping
00:07:29chrisjs169Enterprise1701, sure ;)
00:07:30*scorche is still dangling on the end of the line
00:07:32PanicByteto the devs: keep up the good work
00:07:51Enterprise1701What's the thing about the bootloader?
00:08:12linuxstbHave you read the "Plan B" on the wiki?
00:08:29Enterprise1701Yeah. Is that the bootloader that you are using now?
00:08:47Enterprise1701Forgive me of my questions; it's my first time out here.
00:08:50chrisjs169that's the bootloader I'm using
00:09:07chrisjs169it's a modified version of the original e200r bootloader
00:09:20Enterprise1701How did you get RB to boot up on the E200R then?
00:09:27PanicBytehey, i got an idea for the devs, until you get USB support working on the sansa, you should make it reboot into the original firmware when you plug in USB cable
00:09:49chrisjs169via the modified version of the original e200r bootloader
00:10:04kugelno
00:10:17kugelpanic, many use RB to charge the battery
00:10:25scorchee200tool is not picking it up...
00:10:29advcomp2019PanicByte: i pmed you
00:10:43chrisjs169scorche, e200tool not picking up the e200r in manufacturing mode?
00:10:48 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:10:54chrisjs169JdGordon, did you hear?
00:11:02PanicBytei thought the R models arn't supported?
00:11:02scorcheit doesnt seem like it...it was detected in dmesg and is mounted though
00:11:10JdGordonhear what?
00:11:11chrisjs169wait, how's it mounted?
00:11:22Bagderin manufacture mode it can't be mounted
00:11:26chrisjs169JdGordon, we've almost got Rockbox on the e200R
00:11:27linuxstbscorche: If it's mounted, you're not in manufacturing mode...
00:11:37Enterprise1701How can I get that bootloader to run RB?
00:11:44scorcheack...it sneaked into recovery mode....
00:11:44JdGordonwow :)
00:11:51*scorche should have grabbed some coffee while he was out
00:11:52krazykitPanicByte, that's what they're working on right now ;-)
00:11:57linuxstbEnterprise1701: Are you familiar with using e200tool?
00:11:59chrisjs169I'm using a (patched) copy of the Rhapsody BL right now, and am in Rockbox :D
00:12:14kugelbut you cant boot into of
00:12:21chrisjs169kugel, yes i can
00:12:24chrisjs169via OF.mi4
00:12:29kugeli thought it freezes
00:12:32chrisjs169OF.bin doesn't work for some reason
00:12:34Enterprise1701Yes I am except in Windows it's not detected. I assume you use the recover tool?
00:12:39chrisjs169OF.bin is the one that freezes
00:12:45kugelah ok
00:12:56chrisjs169Enterprise1701, e200tool in Windows (usually) doesn't work
00:13:02kugelOF.bin = OF.mi4 jsut renamed?
00:13:13linuxstbOF.bin = OF.mi4 decrypted
00:13:18chrisjs169yes
00:13:46 Join zivan56 [0] (n=not@64.46.5.150.novuscom.net)
00:13:59chrisjs169scorche, any progress?
00:14:01kugelRB bootloader doesnt take unencrypted FW anymore?
00:14:05bluebrotherhmm ... why didn't I think about making noise about rbutil on the ml?
00:14:14kugelat least on R models
00:14:17bluebrotheranyway, sleep now.
00:14:22chrisjs169kugel, OF.bin/OF.mi4 is an old method anyway
00:14:23kugelgn8
00:14:32kugelye i know
00:14:35Enterprise1701OK, good thing I've got things set up EXCEPT for the Compiling of the Linux binaries. Where is a program that I can use to compile it?
00:14:49Enterprise1701I'm not asking how to do it, just a program.
00:14:53 Quit sasukee ("Leaving")
00:14:58linuxstbYou'll need gcc installed.
00:15:00bluebrotherEnterprise1701: use a compiler
00:15:26 Quit bluebrother ("later ...")
00:16:22oboBagder: gcc 4.2.1 (but the config script gccver sees 402?)
00:16:54Bagderah, was that just upgraded?
00:17:27oboyup, I tend to do a dist-upgrade on unstable every few days
00:17:31Bagderit says 402 since it does 4*100 + 2
00:17:48Bagderyeah, I noticed my unstable went 4.2 just now as well
00:17:58Enterprise1701Getting GCC now...
00:18:05 Join RoC_MasterMind [0] (n=Free@c-66-177-39-225.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
00:18:14 Join perrikwp [0] (i=9821616e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-3b32364ba8da3498)
00:18:17scorchehrm...how do i exit manufacturing mode?
00:18:24oboleave it as-is, or kick it to a specific version?
00:18:38Bagderobo: leave it for now until we've investigated the warnings
00:19:05 Quit zivan56 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:19:09oboLear earlier mentioned a -Wno-override-init option
00:19:26Bagderaha
00:19:37obowhich should squash a lot of it, but not all
00:19:40chrisjs169scorche, it should boot into recovery mode
00:19:55scorcheit is just sitting there with the wheel on and the scrren blank...
00:20:08chrisjs169scorche, after typing '(sudo) ./e200tool recover BL_SD_boardSupportSD.rom'
00:20:13scorchei wasnt able to do anything to it yet...vmware isnt playing nice
00:20:14 Quit Ebert ()
00:20:15chrisjs169scorche, do that above command
00:20:32chrisjs169(root may be required)
00:20:42 Part Redbreva ("User is away.")
00:21:32scorchechrisjs169: i would have to have access to the device first...i am trying to coax vmware and windows to play nice
00:21:47chrisjs169scorche, ok
00:22:26scorchee200tool found it, but then windows took control of the device away from vmware, and now when i switched it back to vmware, it doesnt detect it anymore
00:22:36 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
00:23:30chrisjs169that's more of a windows/vmware problem, not a Sansa problem ;)
00:23:43scorcheyeah, but how does one exit from manufacturing mode?
00:23:55JdGordonforce a reset
00:23:56Bagderscorche: pull the plug
00:24:00JdGordonunless your BL is broken
00:24:11scorcheBagder: it still sits there with the wheel on
00:24:20JdGordontake the battery out
00:24:39Enterprise1701Oh...boy...sounds dangerous...
00:24:58Bagderscorche: hold menu for 15 seconds for hw reboot
00:25:10chrisjs169Enterprise1701, not really, you just need to know what you're doing
00:25:16scorchelovely =)
00:25:44 Join donutman25 [0] (n=chatzill@65.75.87.48)
00:26:18Bagderdionoea: your sourceforge account seems to not exist anymore
00:26:18scorchenow init gives me length write errors...expected?
00:26:36Bagderno
00:27:09dionoeaBagder: I haven't used it for quite a while (in fact i only created it for rockbox AFAIR)
00:27:17dionoeado i need to create it again?
00:27:44Bagderdionoea: ok, I just wanted to let you know since I see you automatically unsubscribed from rockbox-cvs now due to bouncing
00:27:55scorcheit finds the device, but then when it is Initializing USB stub, i get Length write error (-110, Connection timed out)
00:28:07Bagderscorche: sounds like usb problems still
00:28:07*scorche should just boot into linux
00:28:12dionoeaoh :/ I'll resubscribe with another address. Thanks for the info
00:28:32peturwhat to do with FS #7699? a new language?
00:28:57Enterprise1701Quick question: When you boot into linux, it (Linux) should detect the Sansa as a PortalPlayer, right?
00:29:03scorchealright...i am just going to boot into linux...it isnt worth screwing with vmware
00:29:08Bagderpetur: I think so, yes
00:29:11rasherpetur: I don't see any other solution
00:29:22 Join saratoga [0] (i=98039a9c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7194bd1136554df1)
00:29:27BagderI see very little reasons to be restrictive with new languages
00:29:45*chrisjs169 agrees that scorche should boot into linux
00:30:03chrisjs169Enterprise1701, I believe so, not sure exactly
00:30:05BigMacHey get this, for independent study, my teacher is going to let me and a friend work on rockbox for the whole semester
00:30:32BagderTeacher's Semester of Code!
00:30:42 Quit scorche (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- It'll be on slashdot one day...")
00:30:46Bagderwill you get a tshirt? ;-)
00:30:51Enterprise1701You get to work on RB for a class? Nice; help the DAP community and your grade at the same time.
00:30:51saratoganerochiaro: you around?
00:31:16*chrisjs169 just remembered I still have homework to do
00:31:24kugelcool BigMac
00:31:51peturwhat's with the yellow builds btw? anybody looking at it?
00:31:53BigMacBagder: No but we may get a half credit
00:32:01BigMacwhich is equally awesome
00:32:04saratogaBigMac: thats a pretty good deal
00:32:13BigMacYup
00:32:14saratogayou'll learn more doing rockbox then in a couple regular c classes
00:32:19Bagderpetur: obo's server is upped to gcc 4.2.1
00:32:27peturah
00:32:35*obo likes to cause trouble
00:32:36Bagdersee 00:19
00:32:49BigMacwell he is pretty much a moron saratoga, but he teaches web site development, and therefore said oh yes I would love to have you two work with me
00:32:56BigMacwhich is us coding and him sitting there
00:33:34BigMacSo in the mean time I will have to figure out some C again
00:33:49saratogayou pick it up as you go
00:34:05BigMacsaratoga: Well I learned a while back, but it is all lost now
00:34:18saratogayeah i forget c every year or so and then relearn it
00:34:28BigMacand I will have to be the one who leads my other friend along because I have the experience
00:34:36BigMacbut I am getting off topic I guess :p
00:34:57 Join Sivart0 [0] (n=sivart0@wsip-70-182-235-95.ks.ks.cox.net)
00:35:03BigMacBut our goal is to improve some codec
00:35:14BigMacor lay the foundations for a new one
00:35:46Sivart0SivCodec :D
00:36:00krazykityou should implement viewports ;)
00:36:03BigMac*googles*
00:36:17saratogaBigMac: I've got a lot of codec ideas
00:36:19BigMacI think that would be a little to presumtuous krazykit
00:36:21 Quit miepchen^schlaf ("Verlassend")
00:36:26saratogaOgg and AAC in particular
00:37:03BigMacOgg would be most likely, because that is what all of my music is in
00:37:16Sivart0SivCodec :D. It'll be like... midisized... but with mp3 128kbps quality... and voice lyrics :D
00:37:17saratogatremor is a bit slow for my tastes
00:37:47saratogaand its quite similar to wma, which is now a little faster (at least on ARM)
00:38:13saratogacomparing the two and moving good ideas from one to the other would be a good way to improve tremor
00:38:50saratogaor if you're feeling adventerous, i'd like to see how a split radix fft would perform in tremor (or AAC or WMA)
00:39:26 Quit ompaul ("night all")
00:40:03*petur calls it a day
00:40:07 Quit petur ("Zzzzzz")
00:40:36BigMacAll is possible, we will have an hour and a half ish of class time everyday, not including time we have outside of school
00:40:42Enterprise1701*Enterprise 1701 needs to get work done.
00:40:48 Part Enterprise1701
00:41:01dionoeanice reinvention of /me :)
00:42:17 Join webguest71 [0] (i=5b16ac2f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-fdf43b6e73bc9419)
00:42:17 Quit w-soap (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:42:38*chrisjs169 complains about how scorche isn't on
00:43:18saratoganerochiaro: i'm going to be quite busy this fall, but i'd still like to hear about your efforts with the wma decoder, so if you don't see me in IRC, feel free to contact me via gtalk @mgiacomelli
00:43:29*Sivart0 complains that nobody uses sivcodec D:
00:43:30saratogaI will be monitoring that much more closely then IRC
00:43:47 Join Migit109 [0] (n=Migit109@ip68-230-120-77.ph.ph.cox.net)
00:44:01 Quit webguest71 (Client Quit)
00:44:28 Join webguest45 [0] (i=47f0fcf5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2fff64a3d6c0636c)
00:44:47 Join `sam` [0] (n=sam@CPE-75-81-234-51.we.res.rr.com)
00:45:04`sam`all i should need is english.voice for it to speak the menu items?
00:45:50 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
00:47:07Galoisff
00:47:29Galoissorry, internet is screwy
00:48:37 Quit Sivart0 ()
00:49:07 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
00:49:35 Join w-soap [0] (n=zapzip@user-1087jjm.cable.mindspring.com)
00:49:40 Part w-soap
00:50:24 Join O112358 [0] (n=irc@82-35-97-118.cable.ubr05.dals.blueyonder.co.uk)
00:50:34O112358hmm
00:50:49O112358how would you play a folder of songs and repeat them in rockbox?
00:51:13linuxstbEnable the repeat option, then just select any track in the folder via the file browser.
00:52:16O112358to play a folder do you have to add it to a playlist?
00:52:42O112358oh i see.. just press play with it selected
00:52:46BigMaclinuxstb: Couldn't he just insert the folder shuffled
00:52:54linuxstbIf you play a single file, then Rockbox will create a new dynamic playlist containing the entire folder.
00:52:59BigMacinto a playlist
00:53:11linuxstbBigMac: He wanted repeat, not shuffle...
00:53:13O112358okay so it does that anyway
00:53:20O112358i want to to a battery bench test
00:53:23O112358*do
00:53:23 Join Wiwie [0] (n=goddi@vpnsh0071.fh-trier.de)
00:53:28BigMaclinuxstb: Oh, misread
00:53:32O112358put my new battery in today ^^
00:53:38 Quit ender` (" Washing your car to make it rain doesn't work.")
00:53:44 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk)
00:54:20 Quit PanicByte (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:54:21 Quit webguest45 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:54:33O112358how do you switch on repeat? which button is it to switch through those settings?
00:55:11lazkapress the menu button a little bit longer (afair)
00:55:11O112358(h300)
00:55:13 Join YouCeyE [0] (n=YouCeyE@unaffiliated/youceye)
00:55:16O112358oh
00:55:39O112358context menu?
00:55:45O112358i can't see anything about repeat on there..
00:56:01 Join RudMan_ [0] (n=RudMan@ool-182fb504.dyn.optonline.net)
00:56:18O112358ahhh.. i see A-B .. repeat all
00:56:45 Quit perrikwp ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:57:20O112358what's the preferred volume to play at for a battery bench?
00:57:21nerochiarosaratoga: still around ?
00:58:16saratogaam now
00:58:50saratoganerochiaro: am now
00:58:52 Join scorche [0] (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
00:59:18advcomp2019you are back scorche good
00:59:36nerochiarosaratoga: i added you to gtalk contacts, you probably need to authorize me or something
00:59:43scorcherecover is done
01:00
01:00:40O112358is there anywhere with information on doing battery bench tests for uploading to the wiki?
01:00:52O112358with information like preferred volume etc
01:01:12chrisjs169scorche: so you used e200tool to load the e200 bootloader, and used that to place the modified e200R bootloader on the Sansa?
01:01:33scorchehavent yet placed the modified bootloader yet
01:02:06saratoganerochiaro: i haven't got a notice from gtalk, maybe try IMing me ?
01:02:07 Join krazykt [0] (n=kkit@140.141.29.162)
01:03:02nerochiarosaratoga: i'm trying. speaking of wma, for now i'm not doing much more on wma. the biggest issue is on these low bitrate files, and i'm not honestly good enough with that math to fix it myself. the folks at neuros also consider it a low priority issue, so i have not much time allotted to fix that even if i was able to
01:03:11chrisjs169scorche, ok
01:03:20saratoganerochiaro: ok thats what I figured
01:03:31 Quit obo ("bye")
01:03:32saratogathis fall i'm hoping to fix one or two issues a month, so it'll slowly improve
01:04:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:04:30nerochiarosaratoga: i think i'll wait for your changes then. also that 96Kps file with bursts of static is the only thing that's remains that's still weird and not low-bitrate to trigger the low-bitrate bugs you described earlier
01:04:44 Join My_Sic [0] (n=MySic@modemcable061.67-37-24.mc.videotron.ca)
01:04:51saratoganerochiaro: did you try it with sunday's bug fix?
01:05:10nerochiarosaratoga: no, missed it. i'll give it a shot
01:05:28saratoganerochiaro: ok thanks, i'm still aware of at least one other high bitrate bug though
01:05:32saratogaso maybe that won't get it
01:05:46saratogawait, that 96k file wasn't gorrillaz was it?
01:05:58 Quit Migit109 (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/")
01:06:01nerochiarosaratoga: well, i'll try probably tomorrow though. i'll let you know surely. your email is at gmail ? mgiacomelli at ?
01:06:33saratogayeah, mgiacomelli via email or gtalk is best
01:06:50 Join Ebert [0] (n=EbErT@adsl-145-94-55.asm.bellsouth.net)
01:07:28lazkaThe wiki says charging a sansa with RB is "not really usefull". Is this still right??
01:07:32saratogaanyway, regarding bug fixes, the math isn't too important, mostly its patience to dig through a hundred KB worth of floats from rockbox and ffmpeg and look for the ones that don't match :)
01:07:42saratogalazka: no its quite useful now
01:07:47saratogacan you link where it says that
01:07:54lazkahttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SandiskE200BatteryMeasurements
01:08:25nerochiarosaratoga: well, yeah, but when they don't you need math to understand how to fix them to make them match, i suppose
01:08:32saratogalazka: actually that might be correct
01:08:34 Quit Wiwie ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
01:08:39saratogai'll withdraw my remark above
01:08:49LloreanI wouldn't say it's not useful
01:08:52LloreanIt's just not as efficient
01:09:09LloreanI charge in Rockbox regularly without problem, but if you need it charged in a hurry the OF is a better bet.
01:09:23*lazka is wondering why code affects charging Oo
01:09:25saratoganerochiaro: well you need to understand what a fixed point number is, but thats simple, they're just ints multiplied by a larger number to fake having a decimal point
01:09:40saratogaexample: 1 == 65536 in the codec
01:09:48Lloreanlazka: Because a USB device has to request 500mah, otherwise it only receives 100, and Rockbox has no USB mode of its own.
01:09:49saratogaso that we can do 1/2 == 32768
01:09:54saratogaand so on
01:10:12saratogathats what all those shifts do, they just adjust what value equals to 1
01:10:18Lloreanlazka: Were you to, for example, plug it into a dedicated charger rather than a USB port on a computer, it would probably charge at full speed even in Rockbox, I'd bet.
01:10:23saratogadepending on what value is needed for that section of the code
01:10:31lazkaLlorean: ah, i see. thanks
01:11:26saratogabasically, if a CPU has an FPU, then the hardware does that for you, but since we don't have one, we have to keep adjusting that to keep numbers well conditioned (basically make sure the average value of a variable is around 2^16 so that it doesn't over or underflow)
01:11:39nerochiarosaratoga: i think i get the idea. seems one of these deceptively simple things ;) i'll try looking at the code again in this context
01:11:52saratogamost of the bugs you hear in low bitrate files are just areas where I guessed what the average is very poorly
01:12:33saratogaso to fix it, I dump floats until i find where they don't match, and then look at a bunch of values to figure out what range is needed to avoid noise
01:13:09saratogalow bitrate files are really difficult though since they use a lot of very small numbers combined with very large numbers, which makes small mistakes very rough on the ears
01:13:28 Quit krazykit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:13:57nerochiarosaratoga: sounds easier than it probably is. but the explanation made a lot of sense to me. thanks
01:14:25nerochiarosaratoga: oh, i have one question for you that i was about to forget
01:14:41nerochiarosaratoga: the decoder in rockbox is designed to be run single-threaded ?
01:14:57saratoganerochiaro: yes, multithreading it would not make much sense
01:15:05nerochiarowhy not ?
01:15:25saratogathe problem is not posed in such a way that theres an obvious way to parallelize it
01:15:35saratogayou would probably have to software pipeline it
01:16:01saratogado the noise coding/LSP/VLC stuff on one thread, then hand that over to the second thread for iMDCT and windowing
01:16:06saratogai think the gain would be quite small
01:16:27nerochiaroah, no, i didn't explain well what i meant, sorry. i meant running 2 instances of the decoder in parallel
01:16:28saratogaand anywya, we've got it running at about 35MHz on the slowest CPUs imaginable, so theres little sense in trying to multithread it
01:16:32O112358can rockbox run any other MAME roms or just pacman?
01:16:43kugelwhat happened about RB on Sansa rhapsody? Didn't see the two people having an R for some hours?
01:16:49saratoganerochiaro: thats entirely up to your OS
01:16:55 Join perrikwp [0] (i=9821616e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-9180e3b5cce030c1)
01:17:01hcsO112358: pacbox is not MAME, it is just a pacman emulator, so no
01:17:52saratogaassuming you've got processes in your OS, the decoder wouldn't even know you were doing it
01:18:05nerochiarosaratoga: ok, but what if the decoder uses global variables that are common to all instances ? i'm asking since the issues i'm having is that they seem to interfere with each other, and i'm not sure if it's a bug in my code, in libasf, or in decoder itself
01:18:15Soapkugel: the proud new owner of a Sansa 200R series is locked in PM with an experienced pro at this sort of thing, working through the process step by calculated step. ;) We will hear from him shortly.
01:18:38saratoganerochiaro: OSes with processes do not allow global variables to be shared between processes
01:18:51nerochiarosaratoga: threads in the same process
01:19:00SoapThe chatter is this room had become too much for them to have a good working conversation in the main hall.
01:19:14kugelyou mean scorce and jack are privat chatting?
01:19:20saratogain that case, it would depend on your OS and how it managed such things
01:19:41*Bagder crawls away
01:19:48scorcheSoap: hardly experienced pro...i havent looked much into the sansas, which is why i am getting help ;)
01:20:55kugelbut you are working on it?
01:21:05scorcheyes
01:21:10nerochiarosaratoga: ok, as i thought. i was just asking in case you had a quick idea it was something that had to do with the wma decoder design, but i suppose it's more an issue in my code. no problem, i'll figure it out. i was just asking just in case i missed something obvious.
01:21:25kugeli had the feeling the work on it freezed, but you are just not doing it in this channel
01:21:54kugelfroze
01:21:56kugel*
01:22:12saratoganerochiaro: can your system actually decode two things at once?
01:22:25saratogathats pretty impressive for a music player
01:22:52`sam`ok, i have a voice working, but it's saying the wrong menu item
01:23:04Lloreansaratoga: Don't we do something equivalent with Voice on swcodec?
01:23:07nerochiarosaratoga: no. it's decoding while it indexes in the background other files that are in the queue. that's another reason why probably the wma decoder is not to blame
01:23:24LloreanWe don't decode in parallel, but we decode two things fast enough to mix them.
01:23:26linuxstbWhat do you mean by index?
01:23:29nerochiarosaratoga: since the indexing thread is only parsing asf
01:23:40nerochiarolinuxstb: parsing asf and extracting metadata
01:23:49linuxstbnerochiaro: Ah, so you shouldn't be running the decoder at all then.
01:23:49nerochiarolinuxstb: then adding to internal db
01:24:32saratoganerochiaro: ah, yeah rockbox has multiple threads too, but only one of them can be a decoder
01:24:43 Quit Ebert ()
01:24:45nerochiarolinuxstb: that indexing can also happen while decoding. so one instance of the decoder+asf parser runs (to play audio) and the indexer just scans files with the asf parser alone. so indeed that's not a problem of the decoder, it can't be
01:25:30nerochiarosometimes asking questions brings out the obvious like nothing else. sorry for the noise i caused with the question, though
01:26:18 Join foobar76 [0] (n=chatzill@cpc2-cmbg4-0-0-cust589.cmbg.cable.ntl.com)
01:26:28preglowsaratoga: btw, you know when you need to upload code now?
01:26:28 Quit perrikwp ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:26:40saratogapreglow: thanks, i'd forgotten
01:26:48preglowsaratoga: not yet, just wondering
01:26:51kugelwell good luck with the R series, im off
01:26:57kugelsee you
01:27:08preglowsaratoga: if you don't upload code you don't get cash, so you might as well remember it anyway, heh
01:27:17 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]")
01:27:49nerochiarosaratoga: you're a summer of code student ?
01:27:58chrisjs169scorche, you there?
01:28:01scorcheyes
01:28:02foobar76hiya, got a prob removing rockbox, read forum and manual and followed instructions but still not working.
01:28:03chrisjs169ok ;)
01:28:06 Join perrikwp [0] (i=9821616e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-0eba0b9686679428)
01:28:41chrisjs169recap - using patched bootloader on the e200R, it still says load main img failed with the rockbox firmware
01:28:50foobar76I just get the cant load rockbox.ipod. tried copying the .rockbox folder back over but still the same. need to remove the loader but ipodpatcher not seeing ipod
01:28:58saratoganerochiaro: yeah
01:29:06foobar76pc sees ipod fine though
01:29:10scorchewell, first i need to undo the pp4020.mi4 changes to retry...
01:29:20scorche5022...
01:29:21chrisjs169ok
01:29:22scorcheugh
01:29:23saratogapreglow: did we ever decide what google wanted? a patch or the entire rockbox source code?
01:29:37preglowsaratoga: my guess is the entire libwma/ dir + wma.c
01:30:08preglowsaratoga: they don't care too much, it's just a formal thing for them. what they pay for (formally), is the code you upload
01:30:14saratogai see
01:30:38preglowsaratoga: did i paste you the new upload instructions?
01:30:49saratogayes
01:31:08nerochiarosaratoga: i'm a mentor with summer of code myself, and yes, they just want to "see something", to be able to justify to tax office their money
01:31:22scorchewell, how does one undo the .mi4 changes so i cna start the process over from scratch?
01:31:32nerochiaroat last that looked like to what they said in their mailing lists
01:31:58preglowsaratoga: good, then i say it's your responsibility to remember it from now on :>
01:32:11saratogai don't think they've created the site yet
01:32:19preglowprobably not, i can't remember the date they set
01:32:20saratogaat least there doesn't seem to be a rockbox entry on googlecode
01:32:29saratogathe site says today
01:32:42preglowthey've never exactly been spot on with regards to dates
01:33:29saratogayeah
01:33:50 Quit O112358 ()
01:33:50saratogaapparently they pay regardless, but no shirts otherwise and you have to return the money
01:33:56saratogaso i'm not too worried about dates
01:34:00preglowheh
01:34:05preglowso long as i get my shirt!
01:34:14saratogagoogle gives very nice tee shirts
01:34:22saratogai've got 5 already and they're very comfortable
01:34:26preglowhaha
01:34:33preglowi just hope the american sizes aren't too far off
01:35:16linuxstbscorche: So what have you done, what worked, and what didn't?
01:35:34saratogapreglow: they have a chart!
01:36:18saratogahttp://google-summer-of-code-announce.googlegroups.com/web/SHIRTMEASUREMENTS.pdf?gda=IbXgq0YAAACz5l6hrVOGjYW7e3U7iz7bgzGfZLZnJhTlTVZwhy4vcmG1qiJ7UbTIup-M2XPURDS9Zm7I-ESX8AVafWkIXgyxWWCt1TPwoFbDD6GnCKyAVA
01:36:20scorchei (think) i followed the instructions exactly and i got a "Load main image failed"...now i am trying to get back to a clean state so i can try it again in case i didnt do something right
01:36:42linuxstbThat's with the pp5022.mi4 (Rockbox bootloader) from my website?
01:36:57scorcheyes
01:37:12preglowsaratoga: yeah, and those measurements seem way larger than what i'm used to for the same sizes here, but i'll just go for an l anyway, can't be far wrong
01:37:24preglowi should be asking linuxstb's measurements anyway :P
01:37:50saratogapreglow: yeah i was going to ask them if we can add him to the list too
01:38:13linuxstbIt's OK, I'll just take the cash instead...
01:38:40preglowi'll trade you the shirt for the cash if that's your wish
01:38:41scorchealright...back into the rhapsody firmware...lets try again
01:39:33chrisjs169scorche, ok
01:43:58preglowbut no, they're pretty much hoping the rest of the community apart from the mentor would be involved anyway
01:43:58 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
01:44:08preglownot that i wouldn't be happy to send him the shirt if he wanted it...
01:44:24preglowlinuxstb: i'd be happy to give it to you over a couple of pints, for example
01:44:37scorchewriting the e200 .rom i got from daniel's site; execution started...turn hold switch off and boot the device
01:45:06scorchedevice boots fine, not to recovery mode...
01:45:31preglowhmm, i could have sworn they posted a date for when the shirts would be sent out
01:46:38scorcherename BL_SD_boardSupportSD.btl-modified to BL_SD_boardSupportSD.rom and copy to the root of mounted sansa while in recovery mode...
01:47:17scorcheverify it is in there, disconnect
01:47:25 Quit perrikwp ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:47:40`sam`when running configure to try and build the voice file, it gets to where you select V to build the voice, then it says "Voice build selected" and seems to hang there
01:47:50scorchesays "upgrade finished; resetting the system" on the device...should it say anything else?
01:47:53rasher`sam`: press enter again
01:48:01rasher`sam`: This is by design
01:48:34`sam`rasher, maybe change it to "Voice build selected, press enter to continue"? :)
01:48:38`sam`lol
01:48:42*scorche pokes chrisjs169 / linuxstb
01:48:45`sam`i never even thought to try that though
01:49:01rasher`sam`: No, because it allows you to select other options - it even says so in the prompt above
01:49:28 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
01:49:30chrisjs169scorche, does it say writing bootloader?
01:49:37rasher(although enough people have asked this that *something* should probably be changed)
01:49:40 Quit linuxstb (Nick collision from services.)
01:49:46 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
01:49:51scorchechrisjs169: no
01:50:01chrisjs169scorche, wait
01:50:11chrisjs169<scorche> device boots fine, not to recovery mode...
01:50:18scorchenow
01:50:19chrisjs169you need to hold REC after it says execution started
01:50:21scorches/not/now
01:50:29chrisjs169?
01:50:55scorcheis it important to have it go into recovery mode immediately after?
01:51:13 Quit foobar76 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:52:13linuxstbpreglow: I've no real desire for a shirt. Besides, you had to fill out all of Google's paperwork...
01:52:43chrisjs169yes
01:52:50linuxstbpreglow: Aren't you due in London sometime soon?
01:53:01chrisjs169after it says execution started, you can not have it boot into the OF, it needs to boot into recovery mode
01:53:30*chrisjs169 just wrote a basic bash script, and is testing it
01:53:41scorchehrm...that means back to linux i go...
01:54:43chrisjs169lol
01:54:54 Quit webguest65 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:57:03preglowlinuxstb: not exactly london, but i'm over in three weeks time or so
01:57:14preglowlinuxstb: schedule might be tight, though, wedding affair
01:57:37preglowlinuxstb: as for the paperwork, yeah, i agree, i ought to have the bloody shirt :P
01:59:34linuxstbpreglow: So a devconpub would seem unlikely?
01:59:45 Quit scorche (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!")
01:59:51preglowanother one? ;) when is it?
02:00
02:00:07linuxstbWe would arrange one especially for you. (any excuse...)
02:00:08 Quit lazka (Remote closed the connection)
02:01:14preglowi'll need to check out what arrangements are made, i'm not all that keen to abandon what little family i have over there yet, heh
02:02:07preglowbut i'll be over about the 21st
02:03:03 Part pixelma
02:03:32 Join sailerboy_ [0] (i=IceChat7@pool-71-254-190-162.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
02:04:22sailerboy_Can anyone tell me how to install new themes? i am having trouble, because the theam seems to be default, eventhough i put all of the files on the right place
02:04:49alienbiker99you have to select the theme you want to use on the player
02:05:04sailerboy_oh
02:05:11sailerboy_how do i do that?
02:05:18RudMan_you read the manual
02:05:25 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
02:05:26RudMan_general settings->browse themes
02:05:42sailerboy_ok, thanks much!
02:05:47 Part sailerboy_
02:05:48linuxstbpreglow: That's understandable.
02:06:47preglowi would however count it as a total failure if something of the kind didn't happen anytime soon, i love pubs too much :>
02:07:24preglowi also happen to kind of like beer
02:08:42preglowoh, and i have passing connection to rockbox
02:09:14linuxstb;)
02:11:09 Join Jangari [0] (n=Jangari@ppp121-44-121-118.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net)
02:12:26Jangarianyone know what a data abort means while loading the database for the first time?
02:12:41preglowit means there's a bug
02:12:48Jangarimhm
02:13:03Jangariit's happeneing at roughly the same place each time
02:13:07preglowhm
02:13:07Jangarisame file,
02:13:15preglowdo we bundle maps with builds yet, anyone?
02:13:17 Join RxDx [0] (i=Rodrigo@201-74-144-221-sj.cpe.vivax.com.br)
02:13:29RxDxplease, how can i restore my ipod nano using Linux?
02:14:05preglowRxDx: the easiest way is using itunes. is there no way you can do that?
02:14:24RxDxpreglow, yes.. cuz i have dual boot, but i dont want to use windows anymore =/
02:14:34RxDxubuntu is much better
02:14:53preglowRxDx: well, sure, but if you can use itunes, do that
02:15:08Jangariisn't there a 'restore factory settings' built into the nano?
02:15:23preglowthat's just a settings reset
02:15:25Jangarii suppose they expect you to use itunes
02:15:41Jangarii mean... you know, reformat,
02:15:50RxDxyes... reformat :)
02:15:57RxDxbut its ok.. really thanks for help..
02:16:00preglowif the ipod is seriously troubled and doesn't want to boot properly, then that's not enough
02:16:06RxDxi think that ill have to keep windows =/
02:16:06Jangarimm
02:16:28preglowRxDx: you can restore with linux, i just want to keep it as easy as possible
02:16:54krazyktRxDx, or have a windows install in qemu or virtualbox
02:17:03krazyktbut that's off topic...
02:17:06Jangarican i still load the apple firmware from the ipod? or do i have to uninstall rockbox using ipodpatcher?
02:17:30preglowJangari: you can still load retailos from the rockbox bootloader if that's what tou mean
02:17:32RxDxpreglow, ok.. thanks dude :)
02:17:33preglowyou
02:17:44RxDxi think that virtualbox is a nice way
02:17:47Jangariretailos?
02:17:54preglowJangari: the default apple firmware
02:18:15 Join Merthsoft [0] (n=Shaun@140.141.22.103)
02:18:15Jangariah
02:18:24Jangarihad no idea they named it anything
02:18:30preglowwe call the apple firmware 'retailos', we curse it so often we need to save keystrokes :>
02:18:42Jangarihaha
02:18:57Jangariso where does the name retailos derive from?
02:19:00MerthsoftI just installed the daily build, and I'm having it redo the database, and it keeps giving me Data abort at 000458AB, what's that mean?
02:19:11preglowJangari: retail + os
02:19:13linuxstbRxDx: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodManualRestore
02:19:14Jangariyeah, Merthsoft, i'm getting the same
02:19:20preglowos = operating system
02:19:23Jangaridifferent number though
02:19:28preglowretail = retail
02:19:40Jangarihehe, of course, preglow, that's stupid of me
02:19:44Merthsoftdidn't happen before today
02:19:53Jangariwhat version?
02:19:59preglowlinuxstb: fancy
02:20:02linuxstbIt's actually Apple's name for their main firmware - it appears in their bootloader.
02:20:06linuxstb^retailos
02:20:10preglowlinuxstb: now, that i didn't know
02:20:40Jangarimono means one, rail means rail
02:20:45Jangarithus completes your training
02:20:59preglowhaha
02:21:00JangariMerthsoft, which version?
02:21:08Merthsoftver.14598M-070903
02:21:21Jangarimight i expect this bug to have been fixed in tomorrow's build then?
02:21:37Jangaribecause it's a shame to have a crash before being able to play the fvcken thing
02:21:37Merthsofti would hope so
02:21:50Jangariand it crashes, hey, you have to shut down and reboot
02:22:27Jangarialso, i can't seem to find the background option in display settings
02:22:47linuxstbThat's because it's not there. Search the manual for "backdrop".
02:23:18linuxstbAssuming you want to set a background image?
02:23:31Jangariyes
02:23:32Merthsoftdoes anyone besides Jangari have any suggestions as to how to get my player to play?
02:23:49Jangarii have to navigate to it then, in my database, which i can't load due to the data abort bug
02:24:04Jangariuninstall rockbox, Merthsoft?
02:24:13Jangariand wait till the bug is fixed?
02:24:20Jangarithat's what i intend to do
02:24:28SoapMerthsoft: what player do you have?
02:24:37linuxstbMerthsoft: What kind of mp3 player are you running Rockbox on?
02:24:40MerthsoftiRiver h10
02:27:29Jangaritrying to initialize database from database settings, rather than from the main menu, see what that does
02:27:57Jangarifvck, i should probably go to work at some point
02:28:13Merthsoftdoes the same thing
02:28:27SoapI have not seen reports of such crashes on the H10 - is it possible you have some files with funky metadata - or am I way off base?
02:29:12Jangari"data abort on 00046298"
02:29:12Merthsoftwell, it didn't do it before now
02:29:23Jangarithat'
02:29:25Jangarigrr
02:29:26Merthsoftbut I'm gonna remove all the fonts I just put on there
02:29:34Jangarithat's what i'm getting
02:30:02 Quit Llorean (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:30:09Jangarii assumed it was because my files are in a bit of a mess, maybe one of them has mismatching metadata or something
02:30:21 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com)
02:30:34Merthsoftthat didn't help
02:30:34Jangaribut if it happened to you today, Merthsoft, and never before, it's evidently not my files
02:30:49Jangarii didn't intend it to
02:31:16Jangaritoday's build is the first time i've tried rockbox, i can hardly help
02:33:07Jangarithat's a tad annoying
02:34:21MerthsoftSoap: I removed everything from it that wasn't on it before I installed the daily build, and I still get the same error
02:34:34 Join Wes_S [0] (n=wess@209.165.254.99)
02:34:38Merthsoftand reinstalled rockbox
02:34:39Soaphow old was your prior build?
02:34:48Merthsoftcouple weeks
02:34:54Merthsoftmaybe jsut one
02:35:24Jangaricool, uninstalling using the ipodpatcher works fine
02:35:37Jangariback to 'retailos'
02:36:09Jangarianyone else got today's build?
02:39:42 Join scorche [0] (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
02:40:23XavierGrscorche: any good news?
02:40:53scorcheyes...my linux partition decided to "hose" itself, so i am downloading a live cd iso
02:41:09 Join DotR [0] (n=__Gaim__@wybotnnas01-pool0-a250.wybotn.tds.net)
02:41:19XavierGrnice :\
02:41:23Jangarialright, thanks for the help folks, probably see you another day
02:41:25scorchei dont know why that is good news, but that is the status
02:41:46*scorche wishes his dedicated linux boxes werent in another state
02:42:01chrisjs169another state?
02:42:03XavierGrwell it seems that using all those tools, firmwares and bootloaders is a real pain
02:42:03 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02:42:18chrisjs169if it takes that long to drive there (I'm guessing) just use a livecd ;)
02:42:33scorchearound 10 hours to drive there
02:42:53 Quit Jangari ("Don't Haffel the Hoss")
02:44:36Merthsoftwell, revision 14599 didn't help at all
02:44:38chrisjs169me doesn't think you've been gone 10 hours
02:47:05MerthsoftSoap: So... Any ideas?
02:47:31Soapno, sorry. Bootloader was theory #2
02:47:41Merthsoftmeaning?
02:48:01Soapold bootloader on your H10 causing problems with your newer build.
02:48:13Merthsoftoh
02:48:22 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
02:48:35Merthsoftand theory was bunk because?
02:50:38 Join Falco98 [0] (n=chatzill@cpe-075-183-141-200.sc.res.rr.com)
02:51:06Falco98just out of curiosity, is anyone working on the issue of ipods not recognizing when they've been plugged into a charger?
02:51:42LloreanFalco98: My iPod recognized when it's plugged into a charger, or did last time I tried.
02:52:38Falco98my gf has an ipod 4g greyscale, and it doesn't at all... there aren't even the regular menu options (i'm used to irivers) such as "backlight always on when charging", etc
02:52:52Falco98it seems to not be built in at all
02:52:58Falco98and she's using a bleeding-edge build
02:53:22Merthsoftpsh, so am I and I can't even get it to initialize the database...
02:54:28LloreanFalco98: I don't have a setting for "backlight on when charging" either.
02:54:39LloreanBut what do you mean by "Doesn't recognize when it's connected to the charger?"
02:54:49LloreanMost people have meant 'It reboots into the Apple OS as if it were a normal USB connection'
02:54:51Falco98there is on the iriver h140..
02:55:01LloreanFalco98: Yes, I'm well aware of that.
02:55:28Falco98well, from what i've seen on hers, there's nothing in rockbox itself that seems to recognize it's charging
02:55:30Falco98i mean, it does charge...
02:55:40Falco98but no charge indicator, etc
02:56:02LloreanTry plugging it into a PC while holding the Menu button down, and you'll see a charge indicator
02:56:10LloreanThe functionality for stand-alone chargers hasn't been completed yet though
02:56:13Merthsoft... Now it just stalls at "Building database... 0"...
02:56:15Falco98gotcha
02:56:21Falco98that's basically what i was aiming at
02:56:50Falco98the issues i'm thinking of are, for example, people who leave the ipod booted into rockbox overnight and leave it charging, where it sits there and resets every 5 minutes
02:57:16Falco98or, cases where it would be really nice to have a "backlight when charging" option (like in a car)
02:57:22LloreanFalco98: Feel free to issue a patch then.
02:57:27Falco98hehe
02:57:36*preglow roger whittaker - new world in the morning
02:57:54Falco98well, i'm not trying to complain, i just wanted to confirm that it's not exactly an unknown issue or anything
02:58:01LloreanThings don't magically code themselves, and there are a lot of higher priorities related to the iPods right now.
02:58:12Falco98i realize of course that it's not exactly critical and that there are workarounds for everything
02:58:14LloreanMerthsoft: What format is your music in?
02:58:23Merthsoftmo3
02:58:25Merthsoftmp3
02:58:37Falco98i wish i could submit a patch, i'd probably be able to get a coding job if i were that good
02:58:38Merthsoftand it worked before I put this build on
02:58:51LloreanMerthsoft: And you are running an unpatched build, and the official bootloader from download.rockbox.org, neither compiled yourself?
02:59:01Falco98but it does seem like the kind of thing that would require rather intimate hardware knowledge of ipods, and of course, i don't own one
02:59:23 Join Ebert [0] (n=EbErT@adsl-145-94-55.asm.bellsouth.net)
02:59:24Merthsoft no, I compiled it, but all I have is a little thing I was making that is no different than beofre I put it on now
02:59:42LloreanFalco98: Actually, I suspect it won't require much hardware knowledge at all, Rockbox already recognizes that a charger is connected rather than USB, it just doesn't treat it as a charger, I think.
02:59:52Merthsoftit's not stalling now, just crashing
02:59:54Falco98ah gotcha
03:00
03:00:05LloreanMerthsoft: So, what you're saying is "I should be quiet and test it with a 100% official version, first"
03:00:22Falco98out of curiosity, is there any way to confirm in rockbox (as it exists now) that it's seeing a charger?
03:00:23Merthsofti suppose
03:00:30Falco98just thru the GUI etc..
03:00:41LloreanFalco98: Yes, check in the debug menu in the View I/O ports, i believe
03:01:00Falco98ah, gotcha..
03:01:37Falco98who knows, if i ever have extended time alone with my GF's ipod and another person to help me fish out the correct code, i might take a crack at it
03:03:36MerthsoftLlorean: Apparently, being quiet and using %100 official version, first, doesn't work any better then trying to get it figured out before doing that
03:04:12LloreanMerthsoft: Either way, we can't know that your code works, and we have strict rules in this channel
03:04:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:04:41LloreanDon't ask for help here unless you're running the official version, installed as described in the manual, using the files referenced in the manual, and all files are up to date.
03:04:44MerthsoftMy code was a plugin, it shouldn't have had anything to do with that... But either way, I did it, and it didn't work...
03:05:25LloreanMerthsoft: Your code may have been a plugin, but you were still compiling on a computer that wasn't one of the official build servers, which means that we don't know your GCC version, or that everything is working properly, for example.
03:05:58MerthsoftI used the crap that the webpage told me to, but that doesn't matter, if that's a rule it's a rule and I am now abiding by it...
03:06:18MerthsoftI'm sorry I didn't before.
03:06:20LloreanNow, if you revert back to a prior build does the database start working/
03:06:21Llorean?
03:06:28MerthsoftHow would I do that
03:06:35LloreanBy restoring whatever version you had previously.
03:06:56LloreanDo you know what SVN revision it was? You can either download the daily build closest to it, or compile that revision specifically by checking it out with SVN.
03:07:02MerthsoftOk, let me try... I'm nor sure what I had, but I'll try to get close
03:07:28LloreanYou did say that the absolute only change was updating to a newer build of Rockbox, after which the database failed to build? (though I'm curious why you re-inited rather than updated)
03:08:07MerthsoftYeah, that's all I changed... And I'm not really sure
03:08:17Merthsoftfor the hell of it i guess
03:08:52Merthsoftok, that seems to be working
03:09:02Merthsoftone from august 20th
03:09:23Merthsoftand it's straight from downloads.rockbox.org
03:09:25LloreanSo now try to figure out when it stopped working.
03:09:29Merthsoftok
03:10:04Merthsoftshould I wait until it's done initiallizing, or just so long as it gets past the point where it crashed before?
03:10:28Merthsoftand should I completely remove it before installing another one
03:11:29LloreanYou should make sure the database initializes and is usable.
03:11:36Merthsoftok
03:11:44LloreanAnd yes, it'd be best if you completely removed it between tests for now
03:11:48Merthsoftok
03:11:55Merthsoftthis'll take a while
03:12:04 Part Llorean
03:14:06 Quit scorche (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D")
03:15:26MerthsoftYesterday's appears to be working OK
03:15:38 Join ashes [0] (n=ashes@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:0:0:0:15)
03:15:41asheshi
03:15:59ashesim having trouble asking google
03:16:11ashesa couple days ago i dropped my iriver h300
03:16:14ashesh320
03:16:22ashesand now it turns itself off
03:16:28ashesafter 20 minutes or so
03:16:41Falco98ew
03:16:43ashesand it turns itself off sooner and sooner after
03:16:53Falco98sorry to hear that :-/
03:16:54ashesit sorta looks like a battery problem
03:17:07ashesbut im not sure
03:17:39ashesif the battery was worn out, would the battery meter say it's full when it's not?
03:17:55ashesive used it every day for about a year
03:18:10 Join BonBonTheJon [0] (n=jon@69.61.203.3)
03:18:13asheskilled the battery maybe a dozen times
03:18:47ashesif the vibration broke the disc, i think it would behave differently
03:19:10 Join sailerboy [0] (i=IceChat7@pool-71-254-190-162.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
03:19:15ashesit could also be over heating
03:19:17 Part sailerboy
03:19:27ashesinternally (it doesn't feel warm)
03:19:37Falco98you could open it up and check the battery connections
03:19:51Falco98i've never opened one but i'm guessing you'd have to do it very carefully, if at all
03:20:05Falco98you can also sometimes find new batteries for them on ebay
03:20:39asheswould a typical office depot have the right batteries?
03:22:07ashesit strongly behaves like a battery problem
03:22:08 Quit kubiixaka (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:22:24ashesbecause after it dies, if i leave it alone for 10 minutes it's okay again
03:22:32ashesand dies after 20 minutes, again
03:22:57ashesi dropped it from maybe 3 feet
03:23:05ashesand it bounced a bit
03:23:18ashesi dont think it would be enough to deconnect a wire
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03:26:11 Quit DotR ("Leaving.")
03:27:36ashesim hoping it's just a coincidence that i dropped it the day that the battery decided to die
03:27:47ashesbut
03:28:02ashesthe battery was dying a bit before too
03:28:05 Part BigMac ("Konversation terminated!")
03:28:09asheslasting shorter and shorter
03:30:18 Join Lethan [0] (n=Lethan@c-67-189-255-218.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
03:31:10Ebertjust get a new battery and connect it well, ashes
03:31:13Ebertthat's your best bet
03:31:19Lethanhey, im new to compiling and everything but im having a bit of a problem... got the latest svn revision, and i applied a few patches... everything runs well, through ./configure and make, but when i run make install i get the following: "make: *** No rule to make target `install'. Stop."
03:31:38Ebertif that doesn't work, time for a Gigabeat or another iriver :D
03:32:44ashesiriver should be able to fix it, no?
03:33:36`sam`i've got to check and be sure pink floyd didn't start a thread before i waste my time on it...
03:33:45 Quit lucky_ducky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:34:24ashesive wanted to take it apart to paint it
03:34:29`sam`when he says "great idea" in the topic i thought he actually had an idea of how to do it
03:35:16ashescamouflage
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03:46:06SoapLethan: make zip
03:46:58Lethanthat will give me something i can put on my ipod, or something i can send to you?
03:48:19Lethanahhh thank you Soap :D
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04:00
04:00:24 Quit Falco98 ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]")
04:00:54 Join webguest07 [0] (i=4a84a21e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-be4bd6b0f1f5f39e)
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04:06:33 Join scorche [0] (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
04:06:38chrisjs169scorche!
04:06:57scorchehello!
04:07:14scorcherockbox is now working on my e250r =)
04:07:20chrisjs169it is?
04:07:24scorcheyup
04:07:31chrisjs169yay
04:07:38chrisjs169and all you needed was the modified BL?
04:07:50scorchei did it via the same process
04:07:57chrisjs169ok
04:08:16chrisjs169so...what now?
04:08:22*scorche waits for firefox to load so he can post on the forums
04:08:23 Join saratoga [0] (i=98039a9c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-bc34f7fa2923e612)
04:08:58chrisjs169aside from the fact that we now have Rockbox on the R series
04:09:30*chrisjs169 fixes slight bug in bash script
04:10:45saratogawhat was the trick?
04:10:59chrisjs169saratoga, same thing in Plan B
04:11:12scorchethe trick was getting my linux environment to work with me instead of against me ;)
04:11:24chrisjs169except with a different copy of the rockbox firmware (pp5022.mi4)
04:11:36chrisjs169and what scorche just said ;)
04:12:01 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:12:33Soapso this is a linux only install at this point in time?
04:12:50chrisjs169Soap, currently, yes
04:12:54scorchewell, you need e200tool
04:12:55chrisjs169due to e200tool being required
04:13:01saratogachrisjs169: didn't bagder say the e200r didn't allow updating the bootloader?
04:13:13scorcheand you likely have heard about e200tool's oddness with windows
04:13:14chrisjs169saratoga, yes, that's where e200tool came in ;)
04:13:36 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@c-71-205-0-132.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
04:13:39saratogaso basically you figured out where the rom went in flash, and just overwrote what was there?
04:13:46 Part RxDx
04:13:59chrisjs169saratoga, it seems the Rhapsody bootloader disables updating itself, but since the bootloader is stored in the exact same spot, we loaded the e200 bootloader to the RAM, and used that
04:14:19chrisjs169the rom is in the same spot as it is on the e200
04:14:20 Quit Merthsoft (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:14:27saratogahard to believe no one tried that until now
04:14:33chrisjs169yeah
04:14:44chrisjs169but we all believed there was no second partition
04:14:53saratogasounds like its the same as the e200 repair process if you delete your recovery partition?
04:15:03chrisjs169saratoga, mostly, yes
04:15:20saratogawell congrats on figuring it out
04:15:25chrisjs169saratoga, except instead of writing the e200 bootloader to flash, a modified version of the R bootloader is
04:15:35chrisjs169saratoga, I didn't figure it out - I was just a lab rat ;)
04:15:40saratogacould you just have written the 200 one?
04:16:20chrisjs169saratoga, we could, but because of the signatures, the Rhapsody firmware wouldn't be bootable
04:16:48chrisjs169so this process mostly keeps everything intact, just disables the Rhapsody signature check
04:16:57saratogawell yeah, but assuming you didn't mind losing it?
04:17:25chrisjs169losing what? the R firmware?
04:17:29 Quit w0rd54 (Client Quit)
04:17:35saratogayeah, just use the e200 firmware for USB mode
04:17:47 Join w0rd54 [0] (i=blackdev@100mbit.top-site.us)
04:18:04chrisjs169yes, if you didn't mind losing the R firmware, you could just use the vanilla bootloader/firmware
04:18:14scorchei have it booting into the e200r firmware for OF though
04:18:31chrisjs169scorche, via the OF.mi4?
04:18:32Soapdid you get the 250 or 280?
04:18:46scorcheactually, hold on and let me double check
04:18:49scorcheSoap: 250
04:18:57chrisjs169if you held <<| then yes
04:19:17scorchewell, yeah...whatever OF.mi4 is, which is the e200r firmware
04:19:37chrisjs169yes
04:20:06chrisjs169actually, Rockbox can boot either one, since it can switch between signatures
04:20:14chrisjs169(assuming proper terminology)
04:20:25scorcheaye
04:21:01chrisjs169I had both the vanilla and rhapsody firmware on mine, and booted both without problems (after renaming/moving files)
04:22:03saratogaso how afraid are we of people bricking their e200r with this process?
04:22:22saratogais it failsafe (ie people fail to update rather then fail and brick)?
04:22:32scorchewell, this process will not be the final process
04:22:32 Quit webguest07 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
04:22:41scorcheit is a bit too involved for the typical user
04:22:58chrisjs169it'd be just as hard to brick an e200R as it is to brick an e200 (somewhat hard)
04:27:09 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
04:27:19scorchelinuxstb_: g'day
04:28:49 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (n=stephen@129.120.244.105)
04:28:50saratogawhat would the final process be?
04:29:15*scorche hands the mike over to linuxstb_
04:29:32SoapRButilQT
04:29:37Soapof course. ;)
04:29:42scorcheah...there is that...
04:30:32saratogai mean how would it be implemented
04:32:56scorchehrm...does this mean i should send out a "Gentlemen we have sound"?
04:35:50saratogamight as well
04:35:59saratogathere seems to be a few e200r users out there
04:36:18saratogathough I'd caution that the install process is currently risky
04:36:32saratogaand recommend waiting unless they're prepared to risk their player
04:36:37scorcheright then
04:36:52 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
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04:37:07*scorche searches for an apt song to be the first played
04:37:15 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC")
04:38:53hcswhat, dpkg not good enough for ya?
04:39:06scorcheapt!
04:39:19 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
04:39:39hcsI've never heard apt used that way.
04:39:46*scorche sighs
04:40:32hcsyes, I am aware of the word as a word, just not sure if it is appropriate here (appropriate would be, appropriately enough)
04:40:56scorche4.suited to the purpose or occasion; appropriate: an apt metaphor; a few apt remarks on world peace.
04:41:11scorchesynonyms...
04:41:14hcsconceded
04:41:57Soapapt-get install apt-song
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05:00
05:00:32LogarHey everyone, I'm having a problem changing themes in rockbox. I changed themes many times in the past, but after playing a flac with a .cue (if that matters) with the pen&paper theme, I cant change to any other theme without having distorted icon and selecting bar(?) from pen&paper on my screen. If someone could help me I'd be very grateful :)
05:02:10RudMan_is it any flac?
05:02:27 Join arrrghhh [0] (n=chatzill@64.135.169.6)
05:02:46arrrghhhhello all
05:02:49Logari only have that one flac on my ipod
05:03:04Logarso i cant really tell =/
05:03:06arrrghhhcan anyone help me get themes working? i had them working on my previous ipod, but for some reason they just don't work...
05:03:06RudMan_try another - maybe it's corrupt
05:04:01RudMan_what do you "they just don'twork?'
05:04:06arrrghhhwell
05:04:13arrrghhhwhen i select them from the theme selector
05:04:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:04:31arrrghhhit says "loading settings" and then goes back to the menu, same stock rockbox theme
05:04:35arrrghhhreboot, no change...
05:04:39RudMan_are all the supporting files where they are supposed to be?
05:04:44arrrghhhbefore themes were applied no problem
05:04:49 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
05:04:53RudMan_i.e the bmps, the wps, backdrops?
05:04:56arrrghhhwell i extracted them in the exact same way i did before
05:04:57Soaphow long ago is "before"
05:04:59Soap?
05:05:00RudMan_or did you just transfer the cfgs
05:05:02arrrghhhuhm
05:05:07Soapmonths I assume?
05:05:09arrrghhhno i extracted everything
05:05:11arrrghhhno
05:05:14arrrghhhlike yesterday
05:05:20RudMan_recent build?
05:05:21arrrghhhipod broke, swapped for a new one
05:05:23arrrghhhyea
05:05:25 Join bb [0] (n=bb@unaffiliated/bb)
05:05:26arrrghhhevilg's
05:05:31arrrghhhso i can put all the fancy themes on
05:05:40arrrghhhi even tried redownloading the files
05:05:44RudMan_do these builds require a custom build?
05:05:56arrrghhhi'm putting everything in the root directory, under /.rockbox
05:06:02arrrghhhwell some themes do
05:06:07arrrghhhthe album art related ones
05:06:13RudMan_in that case you need that custom build
05:06:15arrrghhhand i think there's some others with scrolling or some feature
05:06:17arrrghhhyea
05:06:24arrrghhhevilg's build worked great before
05:07:35arrrghhhwould you like to inspect the directory structure? i keep trying, wiping and trying again, redownloading nothing is fixing it
05:08:16RudMan_so you are using evilg's build?
05:08:28RudMan_and themes that work with evilg's build?
05:08:30arrrghhhthat is correct
05:08:32arrrghhhyep
05:08:39arrrghhhnot using any new themes either...
05:08:58RudMan_did you re-download the themes?
05:09:16arrrghhhyes
05:09:32arrrghhhi actually deleted everything before i did all this
05:09:36arrrghhhso i had to redownload everything
05:09:59RudMan_weird
05:10:01Lloreanarrrghhh: If you're having problems with custom builds, you really should be contacting the build author
05:10:08arrrghhhhrm
05:10:29arrrghhhshoot i think all the themes i want need a 'custom build'
05:11:13 Join pananohacker [0] (n=jakarta@host-72-174-142-209.cac-co.client.bresnan.net)
05:11:24arrrghhhi guess i'll try a theme that doesn't need a custom build...
05:11:28 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
05:11:47arrrghhhdo you want to see the directory structure to see if anything is blatantly wrong?
05:11:53pananohackerBuild failed on my e200; codecs (at least) were built for intel. I have arm-gcc installed; any idea how to fix)?
05:12:22RudMan_sure
05:12:35arrrghhharrrghhh.gotdns.com/rockbox">http://arrrghhh.gotdns.com/rockbox
05:12:50arrrghhhdamnit
05:12:55arrrghhhit didn't seem to transfer everything...
05:13:11Lloreanpananohacker: How did you determine this?
05:13:20RudMan_I was just about to say that you were missing a lot of shit
05:13:37LogarRudMan_: I fixed it with a reset of my settings, it didnt manage to load the new icons regardless of the file being played. Thanks for the help though :)
05:13:40chrisjs169donutman25, ping
05:13:41LloreanRudMan_: Please, try to keep the language appropriate for any audience in here. It's a technical channel.
05:13:51chrisjs169please be there donutman25....
05:13:56RudMan_llorean:my apologies
05:14:30arrrghhhyea...
05:14:33arrrghhhi don't know
05:14:39arrrghhhmaybe the directory permissions are messed up
05:14:42arrrghhhi just recopied everything
05:14:49pananohackerLlorean: Sorry. Ran `file` on ape.codec; came back with 'Intel 80386'. Is this a result of my making a sim build?
05:14:50arrrghhhand chmodd'd the directory to 777
05:15:24Lloreanpananohacker: Sim builds are not player builds, they're built for the architecture of your PC.
05:16:02arrrghhhok
05:16:07arrrghhhRudMan_: can you try it again?
05:16:07Lloreanarrrghhh: Again, if you're having problems with unsupported builds, take the "unsupported" clue. And especially don't write multiple short lines in the channel, as there's a specific guideline relating to that.
05:16:23pananohackerLlorean: Ah. Okay, thanks.
05:17:17 Quit bb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:17:26arrrghhhugh i forget how obnoxious irc was... gee thanks for all the wonderful help Llorean.
05:17:44`sam`does anybody know where to get legal free gameboy roms? that site it has on the rockboy page doesn't have any downloads right now
05:17:52arrrghhhwell i guess i'll put the official build on and see if that helps out.
05:17:57Lloreanarrrghhh: There are channel guidelines. No offense, but ignoring them makes you the "obnoxious" one.
05:17:59`sam`i just wanted to test out rockboy
05:18:52scorche`sam`: i would search google gor homebrew gameboy roms
05:18:54RudMan_arrgg: I don't see an directories under the wps dir
05:18:56scorches/gor/for
05:18:59pananohackerLlorean: What does one do with a sim build? I can't find any info on the wiki.
05:19:05arrrghhhi didn't mean to put out multiple lines at once, i always forget how obnoxious that is in chat rooms
05:19:17`sam`yeah, i keep getting a bunch of stupid rom sites, but i'll look some more
05:19:23 Quit webguest24 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
05:19:32Lloreanarrrghhh: It's also the unsupported build thing, this channel is for discussion of Rockbox, not other people's software. It's like going into the Debian channel and asking for help with Red Hat.
05:19:58arrrghhhhaha, didn't think it was that far off but i see your point
05:20:14scorchewell, debian channel asking for help with ubuntu would be more apt
05:20:27scorche(pun not intended )
05:20:32arrrghhhRudMan_: it's not applying the chmod command recursively... it's 'fixed' for that directory, but i'm too lazy to do that chmod command for every directory
05:20:44Lloreanpananohacker: It's a User Interface Simulator. Basically it's a program you can run on your computer that looks like Rockbox (and performs a few of the same functions) and is used for testing patches or WPSes/Themes, etc.
05:23:10`sam`arrrghhh, chmod -R
05:23:15`sam`arrrghhh, man chmod
05:23:51 Join RxDx [0] (i=Rodrigo@201-74-144-221-sj.cpe.vivax.com.br)
05:24:02RxDxdoes rockbox uses more battery than apple's firmware?
05:24:34pananohackerLlorean: Ahh, nevermind. I rtfm'd. Thanks anyways.
05:25:57arrrghhhjaja -r good ole recursive
05:26:20arrrghhhi'm learning to put a 'v' with everything so i can actually see what's goin on lol
05:27:34 Quit RxDx ()
05:27:48pananohackerGrr. Getting a '/usr/bin/arm-elf-ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/gcc/arm-elf/4.2.1/libgcc.a when searching for -lgcc' message when building normal, e200 on archlinux, followed by an 'Error 2' later on, when it tries to build libspeex.
05:28:48Lloreanpananohacker: The Rockbox compiling instructions explicitly say you need to be using arm-elf-gcc 4.0.3
05:30:29 Quit hcs ("Leaving.")
05:31:29pananohackerLlorean: I just read the HowToCompile page, apparently I missed that. I'll try that in the morning. Thanks.
05:31:35 Quit pananohacker ("leaving")
05:31:50`sam`Llorean, actually it says "we recommend gcc 4.0.3"
05:32:42Llorean`sam`: Yep, just as we recommend installing Rockbox on players it actually runs on. We can't force people not to do whatever they want, but they should do it the recommended way before saying something's wrong.
05:34:43arrrghhhlook at that, standard build and themes work... damnit!
05:39:15arrrghhhis rockbox not fully supported on the ipod?
05:39:58scorchedefine "not fully supported"
05:40:08RudMan_since the standard build and themes work....apparently it is
05:40:27 Quit Logar ()
05:40:52arrrghhhhrm
05:40:59arrrghhhyea themes aren't working really at all
05:41:07arrrghhhit changed them for the first theme i picked
05:41:14scorchethen you are likely using broken themes
05:41:18arrrghhhthen after that the other themes just applied pieces
05:41:22arrrghhhmmmm great
05:41:35RudMan_or themes that require a custom build
05:41:39scorchenot all themes are up to date
05:41:47arrrghhhnow it won't apply any themes at all
05:42:05arrrghhhand i checked all these themes do not require a special build... i made sure of that
05:42:14scorcheit should still apply the themes that worked before
05:42:44arrrghhhi cleared the settings to go back to defaults, and now it doesn't apply any theme settings...
05:42:57RudMan_weird
05:43:29arrrghhhshoot... i was hoping rockbox would free my ipod of itunes so i could use it easily with linux!
05:43:46scorcheit does that perfectly for me...
05:44:02arrrghhhstrange part is i had rockbox working WONDERFULLY with my previous ipod
05:44:12arrrghhhthis new one... not so much
05:44:40arrrghhhi haven't even tried loading anything with itunes, i just formatted it as a winpod in itunes and then plugged it into my linux box to transfer music & rockbox...
05:45:09scorcheall you ahve described to me sounds like broken themes...hardly rockbox's fault
05:45:16arrrghhhtrue
05:45:44arrrghhhtheir theme is just impossible to read unless i can stare at the screen for a good minute
05:45:58scorchethen dont use that theme...
05:46:12arrrghhhuh that's what i'm trying to do?
05:46:16arrrghhhand it's not working...
05:46:26RudMan_first thing I did when I loaded rockbox was build my own theme that used big fonts so I can read the screen
05:47:14arrrghhhja? i just picked some of the ones i liked off the rockbox 'official' themes list
05:47:26LloreanWhat "official" themes list?
05:47:30arrrghhhworked great on my other ipod... not sure what's up with this one
05:47:39arrrghhhhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsGallery
05:47:47Lloreanarrrghhh: That's the wiki. Anyone can upload
05:47:55LloreanTry loading iCatcher or one of the other themes that comes preinstalled.
05:48:04arrrghhhyea... that's why i put 'official' in the quote!
05:48:07scorchethat is about to be marked not to be used anymore as well
05:48:46arrrghhhyea? a lot of themes are broken i guess huh... shame this all worked so well on my other ipod... the other pod's hdd was toast tho so yea.
05:49:15Lloreanarrrghhh: How long ago was this "working so well"?
05:49:43arrrghhhsunday
05:50:08arrrghhhyesterday i got a new ipod (same 80gb ipod, just a new replacedment pod from the crapple store)
05:50:13LloreanWell any theme that worked with a build from Sunday should work with a build from Today
05:50:20LloreanWere you also using an official, up to date build then?
05:50:30arrrghhhi was using evilg when everything was working
05:50:57 Quit eigma (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:51:02arrrghhhand iclicker theme did seem to load correctly... although the font alignments are poor, i'm guessing that's how the theme is because a lot else appears different
05:51:12LloreanDid you install the font pack?
05:51:47arrrghhhno i don't believe so... if a theme needed new fonts i noticed those included but i never installed any specific 'font pack'
05:52:01LloreanNot all themes include the necessary fonts.
05:52:11LloreanThat's why the manual strongly suggests you install the font pack from the extras page.
05:52:26LloreanYou *did* read the manual at some point, right?
05:52:48arrrghhhi read how to install it... so i know i'm doing that all properly!
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05:53:02 Quit evil_ (Remote closed the connection)
05:53:09LloreanBut you skipped over the bit about the font pack.
05:53:10scorchethat isnt what we asked
05:53:11arrrghhhhaven't really made it beyond that page... i should really make it thru the rest, i know
05:53:14LloreanYes
05:53:43LloreanIn fact I'm quite sure the guidelines also mention something about reading the manual...
05:53:51LloreanThe very same guidelines I've mentioned a few times before.
05:56:10arrrghhhmaybe evilg's build had the fontpack built in... i'm goin back to that build
05:56:26arrrghhhthanks for all your wonderful advice, the internet sarcasm was great too
05:56:40arrrghhhgotta love irc, well you better get back to your rulebook.
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05:57:43*scorche shakes his head
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06:00
06:00:23LloreanAnd if he'd followed that rulebook, and simply read the manual, he'd have installed fonts hours ago and had everything working fine.
06:00:39scorchepretty much
06:00:59scorchethose guidelines are there just to taunt him
06:01:25RudMan_or just look at a theme that is not working and make sure all the files are there in the correct places
06:04:50`sam`he was asking about if rockbox was fully supported on the ipod, but then says he had the same model ipod just a few days ago working
06:04:56alienbiker99hey am i able to put the sansa R firmware on my e200 then install rockbox ?
06:05:24scorchewhy would you want to do that?
06:05:26 Quit grndslm (Remote closed the connection)
06:07:12alienbiker99idk, to check out the rhaspsody channels
06:07:34Lloreanscorche: They aren't really risking "harm" to their device, just "recovery procedures at least as complicated as the procedure you screwed up to need to recover"
06:08:33scorcheLlorean: i thought that was the best way of putting it...if they dont know what they are doing, i would call that risking harm
06:09:23LloreanFair enough
06:09:57LloreanJust wanted to make sure you were aware of that really
06:10:40scorcheyup...i went through that enough today to have a good grasp of what is going on, and recovery procedures, etc =)
06:11:04*scorche shakes his fist at the goblin who trashed his linux partition
06:11:22LloreanWhile I wouldn't presume to say the e200 is unbrickable, whatever's necessary to get it worse than needing manufacturing mode requires a pretty special screwup
06:12:10scorcheof course...i was mainly referring to what i said above though =)
06:12:17LloreanYep
06:12:48scorcheand, of course, that is a great way to keep them away from trying and having an influx of people coming in here and asking us to fix it
06:12:55LloreanYeah
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06:14:19chrisjs169ok, i'm off to bed
06:14:26chrisjs169i need to get up in 6 hours for school
06:14:38scorchehave fun
06:15:08advcomp2019scorche: did you have fun getting rockbox to work on the rs
06:15:46scorchemost of the time was spent trying to get a proper linux environment working on my comp, sadly
06:15:52 Quit RudMan_ (Remote closed the connection)
06:16:04chrisjs169that's why always work in linux ;)
06:16:36scorchewell, i have dedicated linux boxed for that and development sort of things...i just am away from them atm
06:16:43scorches/boxed/boxes
06:16:55chrisjs169lol
06:17:06advcomp2019i have my computer dual boot my computers
06:17:07chrisjs169alright, i'm off
06:17:15advcomp2019later chrisjs169
06:17:20chrisjs169oh wait
06:17:38scorchewell, this box is set up for dual booting as well, but it seems that something has screwed up my linux installation
06:17:43*chrisjs169 updates my build one last time
06:17:55chrisjs169my other computer dual boots winXP and Ubuntu
06:18:11chrisjs169but parents use Windows all the time, so I don't get a chance to use Ubuntu on that one
06:18:33chrisjs169but once I get my new AMD proc, mobo, and new ram, this computer's getting an upgrade :D
06:20:07chrisjs169ok, i'm off
06:20:10chrisjs169for real ;)
06:20:12chrisjs169later
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06:31:26advcomp2019scorche: is it easy to remove rockbox on a r version
06:32:53scorchejust as "easy" to install it, only reverse...this isnt how it is always going to have to be installed...
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08:55:36B4gderscorche: good work on the R
08:55:51scorchei didnt do anything though...that was you guys =P
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08:56:25JdGordonscorche: you round?
08:56:31scorchesure
08:56:42JdGordonhaha... silly question.. your always here :p
08:56:46JdGordonnice work on the e220r
08:56:50JdGordon200r even
08:57:13*scorche sighs
08:57:27JdGordonis the i2c rom the thing that stops us running our own bootloader? or it just stops us modifiying the existing one?
08:57:52GodEater_the i2c rom is identical to the vanilla 200
08:57:54B4gderthe boot loader in the i2c rom loads the BL
08:58:00B4gderthe BL is what loads the mi4
08:58:14amiconnB4gder: I wonder what's up with the web server. 2nd crash within 4 days...
08:58:50B4gderno, the other problem was reboot-related
08:58:51JdGordonso I'm confused, why does it have to be overwritten to et our BL working?
08:59:12B4gderJdGordon: because the original BL on the R models cheks the digital signature of the mi4
08:59:20B4gderso that our dummy-sig doesn't work
08:59:52amiconnB4gder: I'm not talking about the server missing to pick up commits. It was down on Saturday from ?? til ~11:00
09:00
09:00:49B4gderno, it wasn't "down", it was apache that didn't start after the reboot
09:00:58amiconnaha
09:01:12amiconnStill strange
09:01:15B4gderwhich seems to be due to an apache upgrade
09:01:27B4gderfor some reason it added port 443 to the default config
09:01:27amiconnHmm, it seems we'll have to do something about the gcc 4.2.x warnings... my machine is also upgraded now
09:01:33amiconneh?
09:01:53amiconnIs that a debian machine?
09:01:57B4gderyes
09:02:17B4gderand since we run sshd on port 443, apache wouldn't start...
09:02:37amiconnI wonder why an upgrade replaces the config... afaik debian always asks whether it should replace modified files
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09:03:06*GodEater_ wonders how many servers out there run sshd on 443. I know I do ;)
09:03:13B4gderhehe
09:03:18B4gderssshhhh
09:03:22GodEater_it's secret!
09:03:57JdGordonB4gder: could we get some code working which overwrites the BL instead of having to use the recover i2c method? I mean, use the e200tool to put some code into ram and then run it?
09:04:07JdGordonseems saver than modiying the i2c
09:04:11JdGordonsafer*
09:04:18B4gderwe don't modify the i2c rom
09:04:32B4gderbut sure, we can write code and upload it and run it with e200tool
09:04:53GodEater_I was just saying (something) like this to scorche in -community
09:05:08GodEater_this current method of running rockbox on the R series is not for the newbie
09:05:43JdGordonB4gder: "e200tool recover" doesnt modify the i2c?
09:06:07*JdGordon tired
09:06:14B4gdernope
09:06:29B4gderrecover just uploads a bootloader in ram and starts it
09:06:41B4gderso that you can use its recovery mode
09:06:42JdGordonim thinking of one of its other arguments arnt I?
09:06:45GodEater_will MrH mind us including e200tool in rbutil ?
09:07:08B4gderGodEater_: it's mostly a matter of us not accepting anonymous contributions...
09:07:08GodEater_or portions of it at least
09:07:14GodEater_ah
09:07:20GodEater_so it's our fault - not his :)
09:07:24B4gderyes
09:07:54GodEater_and he is (I assume) thoroughly anonymous, and even you don't know him as anyone other than MrH ?
09:08:12B4gderexactly
09:08:14JdGordonsaying yes to that might not be a good idea :p
09:08:17B4gder100% secret
09:08:29JdGordonwe should call him Harry in CREDITS
09:08:32*GodEater_ remembers the days of anon.penet.fi
09:11:44GodEater_are we willing to compromise that decision in this case ?
09:12:01GodEater_since otherwise I don't see how we can ever claim to support the e200r series
09:13:05JdGordon... the same way we can use his findings in the rest of the code?
09:13:08JdGordonjust rewrite it?
09:13:32B4gderwell, we can still "support" it even be rbutil can't
09:13:36B4gdereven if
09:13:45B4gderand yes, we can write the code ourselves
09:13:49B4gderor write it differently
09:14:03scorcheit still is a pretty arduous procedure for the average user
09:14:36B4gderyes, but we had a very involved procedure for the vanilla ones too at first
09:14:52*GodEater_ is never comfortable with this idea of re-writing things. We still know in our hearts is basically MrH's work that we're regugitating
09:15:57JdGordon(trying to understand this).. on a non-rockboxed e200(r) the i2c loads the OF directly? it doesnt go therough a bootloader firsy?
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09:17:47B4gderno
09:17:57B4gderthe i2c rom loads the BL from the hidden partition
09:18:00B4gderthe BL loads the mi4
09:18:16B4gderin a rockboxed case, the BL loads the rockbox-bootloader-mi4
09:18:39JdGordonok
09:19:44JdGordonso slighty related q... why on earth hasnt sandisk released a new version which replaces their bootloader with one which stops us on the vanila e200's?
09:20:39GodEater_why would they do that ?
09:20:46B4gderbecause they don't care?
09:20:49GodEater_I can't imagine they care
09:20:51JdGordonwhy bother with it on the r then?
09:21:00B4gderthat's Rhapsody/Real
09:21:13GodEater_they don't want us stealing their DRM
09:21:21B4gderaccording to some forums out there, Real was involved quite a bit in the design of that
09:21:33JdGordonah ok
09:21:45amiconnWow. Using the pool, I can now build 9 english voices with sapi in <6 minutes on my laptop :)
09:22:15amiconn(if the bitmaps are already built)
09:22:43amiconnB4gder: Do you have an idea how to stop the feature target trigger building bitmaps?
09:23:18B4gderI know why it behaves like that, but the fix is not obvious to me
09:24:28amiconnIt's not the only dependency weirdness
09:24:46B4gderno, but one of the worst...
09:25:22amiconn(1) Normal builds always check the bitmaps twice. (2) codecs are always relinked in sim builds, but not target. (3) Target builds don't relink codecs if only the codeclib changed
09:25:48amiconnImo (3) is the worst, 'cause it produces unexpected results.
09:25:59amiconnThe others are "just" annoying as they cost time
09:26:16JdGordonplugins are also relinked iirc
09:26:32JdGordonIm sure i remmeber something with plugins which shouldnt happen
09:26:39*JdGordon really is too tired to chat
09:27:16scorcheJdGordon: so what is this patch that you have to eventually commit that breaks themes?
09:27:41JdGordonyou talking about adding the usb icon i tihnk?
09:28:02scorchei dont know..i just remember you going on about some patch that beaks themes
09:28:07scorchebreaks
09:28:30GodEater_I prefer beaking them :)
09:28:39JdGordonthats the only one I can think of... because you cant add new icons to only 1 target if you want the iconsets to be usable on all...
09:29:53scorcheah...well, are you waiting on something for that?...anything that breaks themes would be nice to go in befor ethe themes site goes live, as people will fix the themes to submit them to the site
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09:30:39JdGordonscorche: I was waiting on working usb for PP.... but it can go in whenever....
09:30:56JdGordonIt thought icons werent going into the theme site just yet anyway?
09:31:35scorchejust icons arent, but if the theme includes them as part of it, then they will go in
09:33:57JdGordonI'm OK to put the icon in whenever.... dont know how others feel about it though
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09:38:22GodEater_anyone know if linuxstb_ decided not to commit his usb patch ?
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09:39:56ddaltonanyone got p7704 working?
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09:56:40JdGordonwould putting ata_read/write_sectors() in the plugin api be frowned on?
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10:04:15ddaltonso noone has tried p7704?
10:04:22ddaltonit compiles so I will just need to test
10:04:23peturgoing to write chkdsk and defrag for rockbox? ;)
10:04:53JdGordonno... I was thinking about porting sansapatcher to a plugin because im annoyed with the OF
10:05:27 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
10:06:03JdGordonGodEater_: linuxstb_ must have heard :p
10:08:08*GodEater_ looks blank
10:08:09B4gderbtw, the most recent floss weekly was about git and quite interesting
10:08:19JdGordonGodEater_: the usb stuff was just commited
10:08:26B4gderhttp://www.twit.tv/FLOSS
10:08:36GodEater_recent svn still says not here
10:08:47*GodEater_ refreshes the front page again
10:09:07GodEater_thanks B4gder - I'll take a look
10:09:20JdGordonB4gder: shouldnt they be using ogg vorbis instead of mp3? hypocrites :p
10:09:32peturlol
10:09:41B4gderI don't think Leo is a hypocrite
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10:09:57B4gderhe's a full-time caster, not a particular open source one
10:10:29*JdGordon was being funny, and couldnt tihnk of a better word
10:10:39B4gder;-)
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10:10:56B4gderthere's also actually a lot of people claiming mp3 is the podcast "standard" format
10:11:12bluebrotherthere is a standard format? :P
10:11:55ddaltonp7691 was committed.
10:12:17GodEater_yay, I see it now
10:12:18 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
10:12:26linuxstbGodEater_: Thanks for the reminder!
10:13:32GodEater_:)
10:14:21linuxstbB4gder: I don't know if you compared MrH's patched bootloader with the original, but it's just one instruction which has been modified (4 bytes). So now someone needs to write an app that e200tool can upload to perform that patching...
10:15:46B4gderyes
10:16:31linuxstbAlso, do you want to host the pp5022.mi4 for the e200r that I built yesterday?
10:16:59B4gdersure
10:17:10linuxstbhttp://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/pp5022.mi4
10:18:01B4gderI put it on the download server
10:18:21B4gderwe already have a very old version there...
10:18:28B4gder2007-02-25
10:18:37*JdGordon gives up on the podcast.. that guests accent is painful!
10:18:54GodEater_it's quite hard work I agree
10:18:56scorcheis there anything else for me to do?
10:18:58GodEater_he sounds a bit like a robot
10:19:06*ddalton doesn't like lots of emails!
10:19:06pixelmaGodEater: you could have told me if you think I wasn't being clear enough... ;)
10:20:17*GodEater_ is just trying to push his post count past saratoga's ;)
10:20:47pixelmathat was my impression :P
10:20:56GodEater_hehe
10:21:08*scorche looks over at the delete button
10:21:20*amiconn pings rasher again
10:23:30*ddalton got the plugin talking!
10:23:58*JdGordon doesnt want to be left out of all this /me-ing...
10:24:10*GodEater_ shows solidarity too
10:24:18*bluebrother joins for a short while
10:24:26scorcheC-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
10:24:28scorche=)
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10:24:35JdGordonnooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
10:24:48B4gderscorche: you could clean up the e200R install instruction to prepare for the anythingbutipod.com people come bursting in ;-)
10:25:10scorcheB4gder: so no plans to deviate from that for the moment?
10:25:21B4gderdeviate from what?
10:25:26scorcheor ideas, rather
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10:25:38scorcheof a simpler way to do all this?
10:25:42*linuxstb half wishes we never told anyone about the e200R success until we had a more sensible install method...
10:25:53GodEater_scorche: there are plans certainly - but we've not implemented any of them :)
10:26:02B4gdera guess from me is that there will take some time until we have a better way
10:26:10scorcheGodEater: well, plans imply that you have an actual plan without big gaps ;)
10:26:22B4gderand there will be people lining up wanting to test this before we have a better way
10:26:40scorchelinuxstb: well, it can remain harmful...as long as no one lets the bag out that you wont really brick your device
10:26:44GodEater_1) Buy e200r 2) Implement project omega 3) Profit
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10:27:12linuxstbB4gder: True, and it's not in the Rockbox spirit to keep things secret...
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10:28:18GodEater_except for the identity of MrH you mean :)
10:28:32scorchewell, we dont know the answer to spoil it..
10:28:43GodEater_well - everyone claims we don't ;)
10:28:43JdGordonthe bricked e200 thread is going to get a workout again...
10:28:50B4gderhaha
10:28:51GodEater_JdGordon: yay!
10:29:00JdGordon... thats a bad thing....
10:29:09GodEater_I was being sarcastic
10:29:14linuxstbscorche: My thoughts on a plan are to write an app we upload to the e200r in manufacturing mode and execute. That app will patch the OF bootloader directly in the firmware partition. After that, the user will have to copy the PP5022.mi4 and a OF.mi4 to the device in normal UMS mode.
10:29:14JdGordon:)
10:29:20scorchei wonder if we could claim the install process unsupported so if they have any install issues, we get to say we cant help them...
10:29:43GodEater_scorche: "Use entirely at your own risk" disclaimer right at the top
10:29:45*scorche slaps his bad hand
10:29:55amiconnscorche: We aren't like ipl...
10:30:08B4gderwe do help people even when they mess up against our advice
10:30:11scorcheamiconn: twas my bad hand that said it..not me!
10:30:41*scorche looks up and doesnt see anyone else getting away with anything sarcastic, though...
10:31:00B4gdersarcasm is a tricky thing on irc
10:31:03GodEater_the channel police are on strict form today
10:31:05GodEater_:)
10:32:02*bluebrother just posted an update to the rbutil announcement and remembers the edit-policy ...
10:32:11scorchewell, I will post some "easy" instructions onto the wiki sometime tonight
10:33:06linuxstbscorche: Have you seen chrisjs169's instructions - he posted some very detailed instructions on his website yesterday.
10:33:49linuxstbscorche: BTW, what are you going to do with your E250R? Are you keeping it for yourself?
10:34:45scorchelinuxstb: likely not, but i have a bit with it before i must get it back
10:34:54advcomp2019i am reading what the script he made does
10:35:30linuxstbI guess a short-term solution could be a linux live-CD image with e200tool?
10:36:13scorchei think that is a bit much
10:36:19amiconnWhat's the prob with e200tool on windows?
10:36:38linuxstbIt doesn't work...
10:36:47linuxstbI guess no-one has investigated the details.
10:37:05linuxstbIt requires libusb for the USB communication with the E200 in manufacturing mode.
10:37:06amiconnDefine "does not work"...
10:37:08JdGordondoes anyone know how to compile code so e200tool can run it on the target?
10:37:10B4gderno, I don't think anyone who has had the problems has had the skills
10:37:19JdGordonlast time I tried I failed
10:37:28B4gderamiconn: I don't think we know what works or not
10:37:46B4gderbasically, all us who have poked on the e200 are using and have been using linux
10:38:22B4gderlibusb is supposed to work the same way on windows, afaik, so e200tool would work the same
10:38:29linuxstbscorche: Are you a Windows user?
10:38:30B4gderbut apparently it doesn't
10:38:42scorchelinuxstb: i use both, yes
10:39:05linuxstbFancy testing e200tool on Windows and seeing if you can get it to work?
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10:39:30scorchei shall likely try and poke on it a bit tomorrow
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10:40:12bluebrotherlinuxstb: is there something similar to /proc/bus/usb/devices on macos?
10:40:28linuxstbbluebrother: No, there's no /proc filesystem.
10:40:39bluebrotherhmm :/
10:40:40linuxstbYou would force me into the Apple APIs...
10:41:12*linuxstb _really_ wants a Mac developer to turn up and work on rbutilqt
10:41:23*bluebrother too
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10:41:51scorchehrm...better start making a list of things to do...
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10:44:21TiMiD[FD]hi
10:44:40TiMiD[FD]any idea why http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/4905?histring=remote was not accepted nor commented ?
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10:46:11amiconnTiMiD[FD]: Isn't that superseded in svn now?
10:46:29TiMiD[FD]I don't think so
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10:46:39TiMiD[FD]at least I never noticed
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10:48:23TiMiD[FD]I check ...
10:48:41rasheramiconn: yeah?
10:49:46amiconnrasher: I found 2 problems related to voice building
10:49:57linuxstbJdGordon: Do you want to commit the USB-detection modification to the Sansa bootloader now? (I committed my detection patch)
10:50:27TiMiD[FD]no it's not in svn
10:50:41rasherlinuxstb: Didn't he already? r14601
10:50:44amiconn(1) The perl script can't handle all replacement strings, because some of them depend on the voice used, which the perl script can't know (e.g. for sapi, AT&T voices need different corrections than Microsoft voices etc)
10:50:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:51:04amiconnSo I am pondering whether I should add replacement to the vbscript
10:51:47linuxstbrasher: Yes....
10:51:51amiconn(2) Regarding the pool - the pool clips not only depend on the actual spoken text, language and engine, but also on the TTS parameters and encoder parameters
10:52:19rasheramiconn: The same thing could be said of festival - there are multiple english voices, for example. I don't really know how best to handle that
10:52:23amiconnE.g. if I use the pool, but want a different voice speed for hwcodec (in order to keep the file small) that doesn't work atm
10:52:46rasheramiconn: Yeah, I believe I even have a comment to that effect in the source? Isn
10:52:56amiconnSame thing for lame options - say I want to encode the clips for archos with −−resample 8, but the others with −−resample 16...
10:53:02rasher't it just a matter of adding tts_opts and encoder_opts to the string we md5?
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10:54:30B4gderrasher: seems like a fair approach
10:54:47delYsidGRaTT: In what way?
10:55:35rasherAs for the string replacement, I suppose adding it to vbscript could work - or we could let the perl script parse the tts_opts for sapi and have a switch for that as well
10:55:58rasherThat seems slightly nicer - to keep it all in one place
10:56:05rasherAs much as possible
10:58:20amiconnThat might work, but is quite ugly imo
10:58:44amiconn..because then the perl script needs to know which voice name matches which engine, while the vbscript can query that
10:59:16amiconnE.g. it knows that all of Crystal16, Mike16, Audrey16, Charles16 are AT&T english voices
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11:00:49linuxstbCould the Perl script call the vbscript to detect that info?
11:01:44amiconnHmm, it probably could, the same way as the current communication works (via pipes)
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11:03:58rasherAh, didn't know that. I'd say that it'd be nice if the vbscript could tell the perl script which engine is used
11:04:31rasherAnd keep string replacement inside the perlscript
11:04:47markunlinuxstb: looks like a lot of people like the Gigabeat button swap :)
11:04:57amiconnWe just need a new 'command', like the current SPEAK, EXEC, SYNC and QUIT
11:05:19amiconnIt could be called QUERY
11:05:38linuxstbmarkun: What about you?
11:05:49markundidn't update yet
11:06:27markunbut I used a H120 before so I guess I'll get used to it quickly
11:08:43JdGordonlinuxstb: :) I saw your commit and wasnt sure if you had forgotten, or wanted to do it seperatly, so I just went and did it :p
11:09:04linuxstbJdGordon: Yes, I thought it was best as a separate commit.
11:11:26ddaltonin an id for english.lang can you use .?
11:12:58rasherddalton: I think you should keep it to A-Z and underscores
11:13:06 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
11:13:09rasherddalton: It might work, but better not tempt fate
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11:13:29amiconnrasher: What about the .lang renaming?
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11:14:08amiconnIt needs to be synced with the vbscript (but that's trivial)
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11:14:42ddaltonit didn't somehting so simple took me 10 minutes to figure out
11:14:46ddaltonsomething
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11:15:32rasheramiconn: well, finnish -> suomi seems obvious, I think we should wait (or ask for) native speaker's opinion on the rest
11:16:34JdGordonwhat about languages which can be spelt "correctly" in latin chars but the language itself doesnt use laitn?
11:16:41JdGordone.g hebrew -> ivrit
11:17:19rasherJdGordon: Ask a native speaker
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11:18:22rasherIt should be as recognisable to the average native speaker as possible. Whether that's using English, or a romanized name (and the exact romanized spelling), should be decided by someone who speaks the language natively
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11:20:41markunrasher: japanese -> nihongo?
11:22:04*advcomp2019 wonder if i should take the risk in installing rockbox to my e200r using chrisjs169's script
11:22:19scorcheyou dont need to say that in both channels...
11:22:21B4gderwhat script is that?
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11:23:10scorchehttp://chrisjs.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/rockbox.sh
11:23:11advcomp2019B4gder: http://chrisjs.com/?p=59
11:24:33B4gdergosh
11:25:04B4gdernot a bad script, it could use some polish though
11:25:36scorcheaye...that is number 3 on my list
11:26:02advcomp2019i am reading and understanding what it does myself
11:26:36B4gderhttp://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/e200R/pp5022.mi4
11:26:45B4gderthat's the official rockbox bootloader for e200r
11:27:37B4gderand why does it download only the BL from chrisjs169's site?
11:27:58ddalton /me Wonders what is number 1 on scorche's list!
11:28:14*ddalton wonders what is on scorche's list!
11:28:23scorcheplenty after today...
11:28:33scorcheand that is just the rockbox list =)
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11:30:55markunB4gder: rockox doesn't run on the e200R, right?
11:31:09*scorche waves his e250R at markun
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11:31:22B4gdermarkun: it does now
11:31:32markunwhy are we so hostile to people who ask for it and point them to the front page?
11:31:48B4gderwe're not since 7 hours
11:31:52markunok :)
11:32:02B4gderhttp://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2007/09/04/rockbox-on-the-e200r-models/
11:32:11markunbut the homepage needs updating I think
11:32:14scorcheB4gder: time to change the front page?
11:32:15B4gderyes
11:32:17scorchebah...beaten
11:32:50*ddalton Just got battery bench talking. Anyone interested? Should I write a wiki page?
11:33:07B4gderupdated
11:33:15ddaltonon how to voice plugins?
11:33:20james_maloneyeh, I think that would help alot of us
11:33:21B4gderwhen lowlight commits we can add c200 there too ;-)
11:33:44ddaltonSo does everyone agree with James_Malone?
11:34:43linuxstbB4gder: IMO we shouldn't announce the E200R as supported until we have a manual with accurate install instructions. Or at the very least, a note in the E200 manual pointing people to the wiki.
11:34:59markunddalton: I think it's mainly something for blind rockbox users to decide
11:35:11B4gderhm, yes that'd a point
11:35:15scorchewell, I am making a decent step by step procedure for the wiki atm
11:35:16B4gderthat is
11:35:39ddaltonok so should I put it in the dev section? or blind users?
11:35:47linuxstbscorche: Are you including notes about using a Linux Live CD?
11:35:49ddaltonI just thought it might be helpful
11:35:51james_malonemabie dev
11:36:18scorchelinuxstb: simply that you can use one, or do you mean a bit further than that?
11:37:02linuxstbB4gder: Last night, preglow raised the issue of Rockbox officially linking to downloads of Sansa original firmware files - he didn't think we should...
11:37:35B4gderyou mean linking as in having urls in the wiki?
11:37:40amiconnddalton: I'm not sure what you did until now, but it's not possible to voice plugins properly with the current system
11:37:52amiconnYou can only reuse what's already in the .voice file
11:38:07ddaltonJames_Malone: it is for blind users!
11:38:36ddaltonyes but have you seen p7704. But your right we just need a voice file for the plugins
11:39:05linuxstbB4gder: Yes. But I think it's more the idea of telling people download those files as part of the official install process.
11:39:26B4gderI agree that it is a bit unfortunate
11:40:19ddaltonYou can add to english.lang of course.
11:40:39linuxstbThe S port is at the same stage - it requires users running a hacked version of Toshiba's Windows installer.
11:40:55ddaltonanyway how would I make it so you can build a voice file for the rockbox core and then a separate one maybe english_plugin.voice for the plugins?
11:41:19amiconnddalton: That should not be done with the current system, as it increases the size of the voice file, which is completely loaded into ram with the current system
11:42:01ddaltonamiconn: So should each plugin have its own voice file then?
11:42:25amiconnnope
11:42:29scorcheB4gder: are you planning on moving any of the BL_SD files onto the download site, or are they getting them from your site?
11:42:41linuxstbscorche: Those files are (C) Sandisk
11:42:43ddaltonso what is your solution then?
11:42:43amiconnThere is the (quite old) idea of having several segments in the voice file
11:43:10B4gderscorche: they won't go to the download site unless we get permission for that
11:43:17B4gderand I doubt we'll see that happen
11:43:19scorchealright
11:43:24linuxstbB4gder: Any idea if they're available from Sandisk's site?
11:43:31amiconnThat needs to be implemented first. It would also allow to re-unify voice files (no more different voice files per target) without taking too much ram
11:43:33B4gderthey were, but no longer
11:43:34ddaltonwell what about a voice file called plugin.voice? And then if your player can't handle the 3 or 4 mb voice file you can't have voice for plugins
11:43:48B4gderlinuxstb: they switched to an "upgrade" tool these days
11:43:52B4gderwindows only of course
11:44:00ddaltonHow would that work?
11:44:08ddaltonabout your idea on the voice?
11:44:11amiconnddalton: The problem with separate voice files is the exploding number of files
11:44:18B4gderI gotta go and take care of Rex this afternoon
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11:45:08linuxstbIs any Sansa owner volunteering to attempt to write an app that can be uploaded and executed on the Sansa to patch the E200R bootloader in-place?
11:45:19amiconnRight now we already have a ton of them potentially: 25 targets * 33 languages == 825 files
11:45:36ddaltonwell most likely blind people won't want to access most plugins. Some I can think we might like to use are: stop watch, clock, battery bench, and maybe jpeg view, text editor and mpg plugin
11:45:38ddaltonmpeg
11:45:39amiconnNow imagine 10 voiced plugin - they would multiply this number by 11...
11:45:44ddaltonand jpeg
11:46:17james_maloneoh, and mabie the calculator but that;s about it.
11:46:24ddaltonyeah
11:46:42dionoeasorry if this sounds stupid, but why would you use the jpeg viewer if you're blind?
11:47:14linuxstbddalton: Why would plugins like stopwatch, clock, battery bench and text editor not be of interest to blind users?
11:47:26ddaltonwell maybe if your showing sighted friends photos. But you probably wouldn't. And I bet your going to ask about the mpeg player. You can listen to the sound of the movie
11:47:39ddaltonI said they would didn't I
11:47:42linuxstbddalton: Ah, your list was plugins you _want_ to be voiced?
11:47:50dionoeaah ok :=
11:47:52dionoea:)
11:47:53ddaltonyep sorry...
11:48:42ddaltonwell it could be an optional extra. Until we find a better way
11:49:05james_maloneyeh, it could be
11:49:22linuxstbddalton: If you wanted to listen to the audio from videos, it would be a lot more efficient to just rip the audio from the file and play that. You need to re-encode videos to play on Rockbox anyway, so for a blind user, that re-encoding would simply be to extract the audio stream.
11:49:45GodEater_would make them much smaller
11:50:18ddaltonhey I got the video playing once. It was in mpeg format. I didn't do any translating. But yeah it would save space. So now we have got rid of voicing mpeg player and jpeg viewer.
11:50:22ddaltonright?
11:50:44dionoeahehe
11:50:53ddaltonso what is the best idea at the minute do you guys think?
11:51:35linuxstbddalton: I'm not saying they shouldn't be voiced - I just wanted to make sure you knew that mpegplayer isn't a very efficient way to just listen to audio from videos.
11:51:52amiconnThe user: idea would bring back the number of potential voices down to 33, even when plugins get voices
11:52:28ddaltonwell when I think about you are right. I don't know many blind users that will use the mpeg player
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11:52:49delYsidddalton: why not?
11:53:07delYsidWe might need to use it to playback a file instead of converting it first.
11:53:11delYsidtotally normal use case.
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11:53:17ddaltoncould we have a setting in the voice menu called voice plugins? and then if that is on load the extra clips in the voice otherwise don't load it?
11:53:28linuxstbdelYsid: Very few files will play back in mpegplayer without being converted - it has very strict requirements.
11:53:33*bluebrother wonders if it's feasible to use libusb for usb pid detection ...
11:53:59ddaltoncause they can't see the picture!!
11:54:02linuxstbbluebrother: libusb is needed for e200tool functionality - so getting that working in rbutil would make that work easier as well...
11:54:03ddaltonprobably!
11:54:20bluebrotherunfortunately libusb doesn't work on windows :(
11:54:37linuxstbWhat about Mac OS X?
11:54:47bluebrotherit's said to work on os x.
11:54:53ddaltonwhat my last idea won't work?
11:54:54linuxstbbluebrother: http://libusb-win32.sourceforge.net/
11:55:42*bluebrother slaps head
11:56:27bluebrotherhmm, not quite up-to-date
11:56:27GodEater_poor head
11:56:41linuxstbbluebrother: Although the latest news entry was in 2004, and it appears to quite an intrusive install...
11:56:45bluebrotherit wasn't forehead at least ;-)
11:58:15amiconnddalton: Setting or not, the users: idea needs to be implemented for that
11:58:20linuxstbbluebrother: Browsing their SVN, the last update was 3 weeks ago...
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11:59:11amiconn...and then we wouldn't need the setting
12:00
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12:02:11ddaltonwell we could forget about lang v2 for plugins could we?
12:02:37ddaltonand then it is the users choice whether they use it or not
12:03:07ddaltonand we only need to hoste 10 more voice files if we voice 10 more plugins.
12:03:15ddaltoncomments/suggestions?
12:04:41amiconnNo, it would be 10*number_of_targets aditional voices, and that's even only for english!
12:05:32ddaltondid you read my message about lang v2? we could make one voice file for each plugin that worked on each target.
12:05:44ddaltonbut yes your right about the other languages.
12:05:47scorchei think i shall clean up the .sh script a bit, and then just put that int he instructions...would make them much simpler
12:06:15amiconnddalton: No we can't atm, without implementing the users: idea
12:07:26ddaltonwhat do you mean? One if voice plugins is on then try and load voice file. Two if found voice file then start talking else don't talk and display a splash about it. 3. If the voice plugins setting is off then just run as normal.
12:07:44ddaltono yeah and english.voice could voice the error.
12:07:57ddaltonso why wouldn't this be possible?
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12:10:36amiconnBecause we then face a ton of potential voice files... /me repeating himself
12:12:23ddaltonI know but how many languages do we support. I think 33. So I know about 330 voice files. But we could have a link on the voice files page. "Voice files for plugins" And then the user selects there language and then there they are. They can choose what they want.
12:12:59amiconnI wouldn't want to even start this mess if there's a more elegant way
12:13:09ddaltonand remember some voice files for plugins are going to be less than 100 kb so we could still probably hoste them.
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12:13:39ddaltonWell I was talking to Stephane who wrote p6159 and he said you wouldn't want to use english.voice.
12:14:06ddaltonso what about plugin.voice and then what were you saying should happen if we used english.voice?
12:14:59GodEater_ddalton: the mess is not going to be for the user - it's going to be for us to maintain all those voice files
12:15:43ddaltonyeah I can't see any other way. I would be happy to help maintain them if I could. But I don't know a better way.
12:15:48ddaltonto voice the plugins
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12:16:23ddaltonmaybe just plugin.voice and then the plugins use that. But would that become a bit big?
12:16:57pixelmaddalton: what amiconn meant is that there is an idea how to make it better (don't know the details at the moment)
12:17:15ddaltonamiconn: What was your idea again?
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12:24:15Ash_hey
12:24:54 Nick Ash_ is now known as google1010 (n=chatzill@CPE-121-222-227-94.qld.bigpond.net.au)
12:25:26google1010hey all
12:25:40 Part hachi
12:25:54google1010has anyone here heard of Death Cab for Cutie?
12:26:05GodEater_what does it have to do with Rockbox ?
12:26:24google1010well i was wondering if it sounds better on a rockbox ipod or an original ipod FW
12:26:26google1010:)
12:26:47GodEater_that's completely subjective. No-one can answer that except you.
12:26:55scorchethere are RMAA test results on the forums if you wish to look
12:27:11google1010ok
12:27:28google1010so has anyone heard of death cab for the cutie?
12:27:58scorchethat doesnt have anything to do with rockbox
12:28:18google1010sorry
12:28:32scorcheand dont just PM people and ask that...
12:28:44google1010:)
12:28:46google1010 sorry lol
12:28:59scorcheno...not ":)"...that is rude
12:29:07google1010:'(
12:29:13bluebrotherwhat's so funny about annoying people?
12:29:30google1010:(
12:29:31 Part google1010
12:30:56bluebrotherok, device detection based on libusb shouldn't be hard on linux.
12:31:09bluebrotherlet's see about mingw / w32
12:34:06GodEater_is the win32 libusb a no-go ?
12:34:38bluebrotherwell, it claims to be fully compatible to libusb so this might be a nice solution.
12:34:45GodEater_fingers crossed
12:34:50bluebrotherunless installing this filter thingy is required
12:35:19LinusNi believe it is
12:35:45ddaltonLinusN: What do you think about voicing plugins? Have you seen p7704?
12:36:19LinusNi think the chessbox approach is out of the question, regarding the voice file
12:36:34ddaltonso get rid of chessbox
12:36:36ddalton?
12:36:53LinusNthat was an odd conclusion
12:37:03bluebrotherremove doom!
12:37:17bluebrother(just to take the opportunity of saying that once again ;-)
12:37:23LinusNi mean that the plugins should have separate voice files
12:37:38ddaltonHow should the voice file problem work. Should there be a voice file for all the plugin?
12:37:39ddaltons
12:37:58LinusNpossibly even a separate voice file for each plugin
12:38:38LinusNthe original idea for the plugins is to make it possible to distribute plugins separate from the core
12:38:47ddaltonthat was my idea. And apparently we would end up with to many voice files. voicing 10 plugins would be 10*33
12:38:52ddaltonor maybe more
12:39:01LinusNyes
12:39:18LinusNremember that we don't have language support for plugins yet
12:39:40ddaltonok so what do you think just voice the plugins that are going to be useful for us and then provide voice files for each one?
12:39:54ddaltono don't you? Never new that.
12:40:13ddaltonprobably because I have never been able to use them!
12:40:39LinusN:-)
12:41:01*LinusN goes to lunch
12:41:30ddaltonLinusN: so I think separate voice files for each plugin might be a good starting point. What do you think?
12:41:40ddaltono
12:42:48*GodEater_ would kill for some Pytt i panna right now
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12:43:57O112358does anyone know how the dice plugin generates its random numbers?
12:44:21linuxstbUse the source...
12:44:41O112358you mean look at the source code?
12:44:45GodEater_measures the solar wind strength at any given time
12:44:51bluebrother*grrr* USB is broken in my VM setup since the latest update
12:44:52O112358haha :D
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12:47:09O112358would i have to download the whole rockbox source? or is there a way to download a specific plugin?
12:47:40bluebrotheryou can browse it online
12:47:48O112358oh really?
12:47:56ddaltonyes
12:48:05*O112358 carries on searching
12:48:14bluebrotherhttp://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/
12:50:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:50:51O112358i'm lost
12:51:33bluebrotherapps/plugins/dice.c I guess ...
12:51:51bluebrother(change to trunk first, of course)
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12:52:08O112358oh.. that helps
12:52:24O112358the folder names are meaningless to me.. badgers.. trunks
12:52:51bluebrotherjust use your imagination ... they actually _do_ tell something
12:53:13hachiin an ipod, running at 80MHz for very long periods wouldn't cause heat issues at all would it?
12:53:37bluebrotherit's specced to run at that clock speed so it shouldn't
12:53:43*bluebrother leaves for lunch
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12:54:41hachiokkie, was slightly worried cause it felt warm after only a few minutes and it's gonna be building my database for a long while
12:56:49GodEater_shouldn't be that long
12:59:29O112358is it something to do with "dice_print( &dice, rb->screens[i] )"?
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13:00:08linuxstbO112358: Is what something to do with that line?
13:01:33O112358the generation of the random numbers, forget it, I don't have enough knowledge to make any sense of it
13:03:08linuxstbWhat exactly are you looking for? It just generates a random number using Rockbox's random number algorithm...
13:03:25amiconnLinusN: *please* no further multiplying voice file explosion
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13:04:09amiconnA nice solution was already proposed multiple times, it "just" needs to be implemented
13:04:24ddaltonwhat needs to be done?
13:05:11scorchealright...can someone look through this and verify that i didnt make silly mistakes? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200R
13:05:31linuxstbscorche: "Page Heading" at the top?
13:05:57scorchelinuxstb: ah...i just added the instructions, and didnt modify much else of the page
13:05:58linuxstbIIRC, Llorean has used e200tool with vmware.
13:06:28linuxstbAlthough maybe recovery mode and manufacturers mode are different - I think he was using recovery mode.
13:06:44O112358linuxstb: i was just curious if rockbox used some fluctuating value from somewhere to generate the numbers, i'll see if i can find some information on the algorithm
13:07:18scorchelinuxstb: it is a matter of going into recovery mode right after manufacturers mode....with vmware, it mounts in windows, unmounts, then is made available to vmware
13:07:20linuxstbO112358: No, it's a pseudo random number algorithm, seeded based on the current time.
13:08:15O112358oh, thankyou
13:09:12linuxstbscorche: Maybe a table for all the downloads would be clearer - e.g. with two columns: "Download link", "Destination folder and filename"
13:10:08scorchelinuxstb: i thought about that, but due to the renaming (of pp5022.mi4) and unzipping, i think having it as a step by step is a bit better
13:10:34linuxstbscorche: And I assume linux live CDs would give the user access to their Windows partitions? So they could do the downloading in Windows.
13:10:51linuxstbAlso, only the e200tool parts need Linux - the rest could be done in the comfort of Windows.
13:10:55scorchelinuxstb: yes, they typically do
13:11:45linuxstbi.e. 1) Unzip rockbox.zip to the device, and copy PP5022.mi4 and OF.mi4; 2) Boot into linux and do the e200tool stuff.
13:11:45scorchelinuxstb: no...the recovery mode things need to be in linux as well, as the device will reboot immediately after using e200tool
13:12:28amiconnscorche: Why do you need to download the OF again for E200R? I would expect it to be already present on the device...
13:12:53linuxstbamiconn: It's overwritten by the Rockbox bootloader install - which is basically using the OF to replace the main firmware.
13:13:10linuxstb(sansapatcher does this for normal E200s)
13:13:15amiconnCan't it be renamed first?
13:13:26linuxstbIt's copied into the hidden firmware partition
13:13:35linuxstb(which isn't accessible via USB on the R)
13:13:59linuxstbSo it only exists on the user's hidden partition, which we can't backup (with current tools)
13:14:30scorchelinuxstb: hrm...i suppose that process could work as well, as long as the user doesnt mind seeing "load main image fail"
13:16:49linuxstbWhy would you see that message?
13:16:56linuxstb(I mean at what step?)
13:17:09scorcheafter the device rebooted from updating the image
13:17:20scorchewell, updating the mi4
13:17:34linuxstbWhich mi4?
13:17:39amiconnI wonder what hardware is initialised in manufacturer mode. Perhaps we could load a binary that patches the existing bootloader on the hidden partition, based of existing rockbox drivers
13:17:50linuxstbamiconn: Yes, that's the planned attack.
13:18:18amiconnDoes e200tool do 2-way communication?
13:18:25linuxstbYes.
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13:18:44scorchepp5022.mi4....am i wrong in assuming the device would update that as soon as it is disconnected and would reboot into "load main image failed" ?
13:19:01linuxstbe200tool uploads a small ARM application to the Sansa which is executed. It then communicates with this app via usb to perform the various different functions. My plan would be to replace that small app with an app that does the required patching of the hidden partition.
13:19:13linuxstbSo no communication would be needed.
13:20:08amiconnI was asking for the communication in order to get feedback while developing (as the lcd doesn't seem to be initialised judging from the manufacturer mode description)
13:21:18linuxstbThat would mean incorporating MrH's USB code. But yes, it might be useful to do during development if the LCD doesn't work.
13:22:24linuxstbscorche: The e200tool process could be done without any Rockbox files being needed - all it does is patch the OF bootloader (BL_) to accept unsigned mi4s from the user.
13:22:45linuxstbscorche: Once that patching has been done, the user could copy the PP5022.mi4 file in Windows, and the Sansa should perform a normal firmware upgrade.
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13:23:23delYsidyay, I finally got my e280!
13:23:29delYsidAnd rockbox works like a charm.
13:24:12linuxstbscorche: So probably best to reverse the order of 1) and 2) in my earlier suggestion - i.e. run e200tool first, then do the Rockbox install.
13:24:36scorcheyeah...at this point at least, they still need to download both BL_ files and perform manufacturing mode and recovery mode in linux though, correct?
13:25:06 Quit My_Sic (Client Quit)
13:25:26linuxstbscorche: Yes
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13:26:25scorchealright...i will make the current one the procedure for linux, and write a new one for linux and windows then to help reduce confusion
13:26:43linuxstbscorche: Maybe a separate page with just the "Patching the E200R bootloader" instructions would be clearer. i.e. the 4 steps listed under Plan B.
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13:27:27scorcheE200RInstallation
13:27:46linuxstbOr E200RBootloaderPatching - which would be linked to from E200RInstallation
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13:30:54scorcheSansaRhapsodyInstallation to play nice with WikiWord?
13:32:03scorcheSansaE200RInstallation would be best...
13:35:55amiconnBagder: The svn activity table on the frontpage is shown empty...
13:37:05Zagorthere is a network malfunction at the svn server site.
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13:39:50LinusNdr-0.me6-sth.se.crystone.net verkar skakig
13:40:11Zagorja
13:40:27*aliask understood that last part :D
13:40:45Zagoroh no, we need to update our crypto :)
13:40:53LinusNhaha
13:41:20aliask:)
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13:41:36*scorche is ashamed to only really know "bra" and "slut" (and other small words)
13:41:55james_maloneLaughing Out Loud
13:42:45aliask"God Jul" is the extent of my swedish. Oh, and "hej".
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13:43:32gammy"Kommer du hit ofta?" might come in handy.
13:43:56GodEater_bra tack
13:43:59*LinusN silences the offtopic detector alarm
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13:47:16GodEater_"Tjena bruden, Hur är läget? Hem till dig eller mig ?" <−− all I know for a good night out in Stockholm
13:47:35GodEater_assuming you don't get your face slapped that is
13:49:47GodEater_I'm told "Hur är läget?" is the swedish equivalent of the "How you doin'?" phrase made popular by one Joey Tribiani
13:49:53 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:50:06gammyGodEater_: You could even abbreviate it to just 'Lget?'
13:50:20gammyIt means the same thing.
13:50:53*GodEater_ files that one away for his next boys trip to stockholm
13:52:05*scorche picks up the topic and moves it over to #rockbox-community (and threatens GodEater_ if he doesn't bring him to said boys trip)
14:00
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14:13:23scorchealright...another look-over?...it is mostly copy-and-paste http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200RInstallation
14:13:48XavierGrwhat the hell I got slightly electrocuted from my faulty digital camera. But how? it doesn't have any batteries in it for at least 12 hours!!
14:14:07scorchecapacitors...
14:14:30XavierGryeah the camear was unscrewed and the voltage reading is about 200 volts?!
14:15:00XavierGrstill, very weird...
14:15:09 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:15:36amiconnThe flash capacitor is charged to ~500V DC if the flash is ready. It can keep charged for hours
14:15:47XavierGrI am tempted to shortcircuit it
14:15:51XavierGrah that's it then
14:15:52amiconnDon't
14:15:54XavierGrthanks for the info
14:16:00 Quit skate3214 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:16:09amiconnUse a resistor to discharge it
14:16:10JdGordonlinuxstb: re the e200tool coding.. id be happy to do it.. but last time i tried compiling so it could copy the binary on I failed
14:17:03linuxstbYou'll need to build an app similar to the Rockbox bootloader, and (IIUC), link it to execute from 0x40004000.
14:17:22linuxstbThe resulting "bootloader.bin" is what you would make e200tool upload instead of arm_code.c
14:18:29*scorche assumes he gets an okay on the installation page and goes about making it official
14:18:36XavierGrdischarging it now with the multimeter volt meter, slow but steady
14:18:52linuxstbJdGordon: You would also need to modify firmware/target/arm/crt0-pp-bl.S to remove the code that copies the bootloader into IRAM - as it will already be there.
14:19:36JdGordon.. that part is beyond me... but if someone else does that, I can do the boring bit of actually getting it to be useful
14:19:38linuxstbThe aim would be to get an app running with a working flash driver so it can modify the contents of the firmware partition.
14:20:35JdGordonyeah, I was thinking about porting sansaptacher to a plugin anyway, so it would be mostly the same stuff I tihnk?
14:21:16linuxstbIt would be simpler than that, at least in the first version - just modifying one instruction (4 bytes) in the bootloader stored in the hidden partition.
14:21:44linuxstbAlthough yes, a more advanced version could incorporate sansapatcher like abilities.
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14:22:28JdGordonI assume there is a version string/value somewhere we can check against so we dont accidently brick a bootloader version we arnt expecting?
14:22:39JdGordonor we find that out later
14:22:43linuxstbMaybe, or we would checksum the bootloader
14:23:18linuxstbOr as we're dealing with sector-level reads/writes, we could just checksum the sector we're modifying.
14:23:18scorcheBagder / LinusN: around?
14:23:31LinusNhere
14:23:55scorcheCan you change the caption for the Sandisk - Installation/Removal forum please?
14:24:11JdGordonlinuxstb: I wouldnt trust that... that way is more possible to get a false positive than a checksum of the whole thing, or a version string
14:25:12linuxstbJdGordon: What wouldn't you trust - the checksum of a single sector?
14:25:18JdGordonyeah
14:25:24LinusNscorche: to "e200 and e200R"?
14:25:38LinusNor what?
14:25:40linuxstbIMO it's even better than the checksum - if that part of the bootloader is identical, the existing patch should work.
14:25:47scorche"Sansa e200, e200R"
14:25:50linuxstb^the full checksum
14:25:52LinusNoki
14:26:11LinusNscorche: done
14:26:18JdGordonBagder: there was an updaed e200tool recently wasnt there? is the new source avilable somewhere?
14:26:20scorchethanks
14:26:24linuxstbJdGordon: Sorry, I meant that a single-sector checksum could be more useful than either checking the version of a full-file checksum.
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14:26:36linuxstb^version _or_
14:26:44*linuxstb goes away and learns to type
14:26:46JdGordon:)
14:27:09JdGordonthis sort of thing id say check all 3 just to be 100% certain we dont break it
14:27:26JdGordonbut first thing is to get some code running.....
14:27:40linuxstbYou mean perform a full-file checksum _and_ a single sector checksum? ;)
14:27:51JdGordonno, duh :p
14:28:02JdGordonjust the version and one of the checksums
14:28:05JdGordon... i dunno....
14:28:45linuxstbAs you say, these are details for later - first thing is to get the code working.
14:29:24JdGordonalso modifing e200tool to read in a file instead of having it compiled in would be useful
14:30:03linuxstbThe first test I would do would be this: 1) Change ". = IRAMORIG" to ". = IRAMORIG + 0x4000" in firmware/boot.lds. (that will link the bootloader to run from 0x40004000)
14:30:57linuxstbDelete lines 57-81 inclusive from firmware/target/arm/crt0-pp-bl.S (that does the bootloader relocation to IRAM).
14:31:20linuxstbThen build a bootloader and upload it to the e200 in manufacturing mode instead of e200code[]
14:31:29linuxstb^it = bootloader.bin
14:31:39linuxstbAnd see what happens...
14:32:46JdGordon... isnt 0x40004000 where e200tool puts its usb code?
14:32:50linuxstbExactly
14:33:17JdGordonbut then if we try copying code there once its running wont it overright the running program?
14:33:27linuxstbWhat running program?
14:33:47JdGordonthe program e2t copies on to make magic happen.
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14:33:58linuxstbYou upload it _instead_ of the program e2t copies
14:34:00GodEater_we want it to over write that though
14:34:18GodEater_we're not interested in having the sansa talk back to us
14:34:20linuxstbi.e. we're running our own code, not arm_code.c
14:34:32GodEater_we want it to do the bootloader patching
14:34:42linuxstbThis approach makes us less dependent on MrH's code.
14:34:43JdGordonisnt arm_code.c the code needed to make e2t actually work?
14:34:51tom1salut
14:34:55tom1francais ?
14:34:56tom1french ?
14:34:58JdGordonnope
14:34:59GodEater_it's the bit which talks back to e200tool
14:35:04GodEater_tom1: anglais only
14:35:26linuxstbJdGordon: We're not using 90% of e200tool's features. We're just using the initial code that transfers arm_code.c to the e200.
14:35:42*n1s runs rb built by gcc4.3 on his h300, no button or rtc but music works :-)
14:35:42GodEater_and causes the e200 to execute it
14:35:59tom1i have ubuntu, and i can't install rockbox on my ipod
14:36:02*GodEater_ is pleased that n1s is happy about this
14:36:17GodEater_tom1: have you tried RockboxUtilityQt ?
14:36:29tom1no
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14:36:36GodEater_http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxUtilityQt
14:36:43tom1thank you
14:36:49GodEater_download the linux version obviously
14:36:53linuxstbJdGordon: Do you understand what I'm suggesting?
14:36:53AceNikhey guys what exactly does the new usb patch do
14:36:55tom1yes
14:37:06linuxstbAceNik: Did you read the flyspray task ?
14:37:10GodEater_AceNik: means you don't have to hold menu for ever to stop it booting into disk mode
14:37:12JdGordonlinuxstb: yeah, but...
14:37:25GodEater_yeah but what ?
14:37:36AceNiki have an h10 how does this implement there
14:38:04GodEater_AceNik: read the manual ?
14:38:06AceNikso you mean to say i dont hold the "o" button to enter disk mode?
14:38:15linuxstbAceNik: I think it's the "power" button on the H10
14:38:42linuxstbAceNik: What happens now when you insert USB?
14:38:56AceNikno tried it yet ill jus be back
14:38:59 Part AceNik
14:39:07linuxstbI meant before my patch....
14:39:15GodEater_twit
14:39:25GodEater_him, not you obviously
14:39:30*linuxstb remembers petur saying "reboot-to-usb" wasn't implemented on the h10...
14:40:00linuxstbJdGordon: What's the "but" /
14:40:12*GodEater_ waits to see the first post in the e200r about someone frying their toy
14:40:44GodEater_insert forum as appropriate
14:40:45JdGordonlinuxstb: ill get back to you.... trying to figure out how e2t actually works
14:41:02*scorche is quite pleased with today
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14:42:14linuxstbJdGordon: 1) It uploads arm_code.c; 2) It communicates with arm_code.c and sends commands and data to it via usb, and also receives data back from it via usb. Think of arm_code.c as being a server app running on the Sansa.
14:42:56linuxstbAll of that is MrH's work, and it's far more complicated than we need for a normal Rockbox install.
14:43:29JdGordonso your saying arm_code isnt needed at all? e2t can copy arbitrary code onto it and run it without that on the sansa?
14:43:29linuxstbSo my suggestion is to upload our own code (the bootloader.bin I described how to build), and run that directly instead of arm_code.c
14:43:37linuxstbJdGordon: Exactly.
14:43:48amiconnlinuxstb: reboot-to-usb *is* implemented on the H10 (as I had to learn)
14:44:00JdGordonOh, OK... I thought arm_code was actually required....
14:44:46linuxstbamiconn: You should tell petur...
14:44:48amiconnIt just works inverse to all other targets. You have to hold Select to reboot into usb. Not holding it just goes to usb power mode
14:44:57GodEater_JdGordon: only if you want to do all the other clever stuff e2t does
14:44:58JdGordonsansa doesnt reboot to usb except in the bootloader
14:45:14amiconnThis is to ease things on H10 MTP models
14:45:25amiconn(as barrywardell told me)
14:45:41linuxstbI think I remember now - it's the same button used by the OF to choose UMS mode?
14:45:53linuxstbSo you press it in Rockbox, and then keep it pressed?
14:45:55amiconnYes, the so-called "UMS trick"
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14:47:05JdGordonlinuxstb: and the e200code[] is just the compiled arm_code read in?
14:47:16linuxstbJdGordon: Yes - so it should be easy to read it from a file instead.
14:47:25JdGordonok, cool
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14:47:51linuxstbYou could also strip out all of the unused code - so you end up with a very minimal e200tool.c
14:48:04linuxstbi.e. all the usb command stuff.
14:48:15linuxstb(which is e200tool communicating with arm_code.c)
14:49:14JdGordonok, time to see if I can get a bootloader build running
14:49:27*JdGordon scrolls up a few pages to get the instructions
14:49:48linuxstbI'm not that confident - it's unlikely that the hardware is initialised as Rockbox expects. But some things may work...
14:50:16tom1GodEater: rockbox run on my ipod now !
14:50:22tom1thank you very much
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14:50:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:50:50GodEater_your welcome....
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14:52:28 Quit webguest94 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
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14:58:54JdGordondoh
14:59:04JdGordoni forgot how to do file i/o on linux :p
14:59:08JdGordonall this damn rockbox hacking
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14:59:23linuxstbSame as Rockbox - open/read/close
14:59:36JdGordonthats what i thought...
14:59:42JdGordonmust be missing the .h then
14:59:42GodEater_don't forget seek() ;)
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14:59:55linuxstbDo "man 2 open" to see the .h required
15:00
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15:00:25linuxstbGodEater_: You mean lseek() ;)
15:00:35GodEater_probably
15:01:03GodEater_ah yes - "seek()" is Tcl
15:01:27JdGordonok, all ready to start testing...
15:01:41*JdGordon looks around the channel to make sure everyone has their fingures crossed....
15:01:41*linuxstb rolls some drum
15:01:51 Part sadeness
15:02:49scorcheheh...hasnt there been enough finger crossing today/yesterday? =P
15:02:50 Quit skate3214 (Remote closed the connection)
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15:04:13 Quit aliask ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007073113]")
15:05:29JdGordonwell that was thourouly unexciting :p
15:05:30 Join skate3214 [0] (n=chatzill@C-61-68-116-189.hay.connect.net.au)
15:06:01GodEater_hahaha
15:06:15 Join pepie34_ [0] (n=pepie34@251.232-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
15:06:23linuxstbJdGordon: Now the fun starts - trying to determine exactly what is working, and what isn't...
15:06:24JdGordoni should just do e200tool init and then it should start the copied code right?
15:06:27 Quit pepie34_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:06:34 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
15:07:23linuxstbJdGordon: Yes, I think that should be all that's needed.
15:07:40JdGordonok, trying to see if i can turn the wheel light off....
15:07:41linuxstbDid it give you messages about uploading the code?
15:08:15JdGordonyeah
15:08:23linuxstbI think it should say "Initializing USB stub (%d bytes)" followed by "done".
15:08:28JdGordonyep
15:10:02linuxstbOK. I'll leave you to it....
15:10:27JdGordon:'(
15:11:33bluebrotherdamn. Looks like libusb-w32 requires this stupid filter driver :(
15:11:43LinusNfigures
15:12:20linuxstbHmm, any ARM people (preglow, amiconn, ....?) understand this code at the start of MrH's program? http://www.pastebin.ca/680981
15:13:32linuxstbThe code itself is linked to run from 0x40004000, but I'm not 100% sure where it's uploaded to on the device...
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15:15:22GodEater_'lo Febs
15:17:09linuxstbJdGordon: Hmm. Maybe undo the changes I suggested to you, and just upload a standard bootloader.bin and see what happens. I may have misunderstood...
15:17:28JdGordonall the changes?
15:17:41JdGordonoh you know what... im an idiot
15:17:48JdGordonim uploading the mi4... not the bin
15:18:02JdGordondid I mention im too tired to code :p
15:18:38linuxstbRevert what you changed in boot.lds and crt0-pp-bl.S
15:18:49linuxstbAnd yes, uploading the mi4 is a bad idea... ;)
15:19:08JdGordonFUCKIONG WOOT!
15:19:14JdGordonthe wheel light turned off!
15:19:39linuxstbWas that with or without those changes I told you to make?
15:19:46JdGordonwith the changes
15:20:07JdGordonit seems our bootloader needs fixing... it found the usb connection and rebooted to of :p
15:20:33linuxstbNo lcd activity though?
15:21:04JdGordonim not sure... im going to get it to not boot the of first
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15:22:05 Part LinusN
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15:24:43JdGordon:( back to nothing happening
15:26:05rvvs89International Talk Like A Pirate Day occurs in 2 weeks, I expect full cooperation from this channel :P </off-topic>
15:26:38JdGordonscorche: you got a min?
15:26:53scorcheJdGordon: was just about to head to bed, but what did you need?
15:27:02nicktasticyeaar
15:27:17JdGordonstart the sansa in manufac mode and just leave it.. tell me if it resets after a few min please?
15:27:23JdGordonunless someone else can?
15:28:19scorchesure
15:28:23JdGordonta
15:29:50linuxstbWhat did you change to go "back to nothing happening"?
15:29:59 Quit skate3214 ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007073113]")
15:30:03JdGordonnot sure...
15:30:07JdGordoneither nothing... or..?
15:30:21linuxstbDid you revert my changes yet? I'm now pretty sure they're bad.
15:30:40JdGordonyeah, trying with them reverted now but nothing is happning
15:30:54JdGordonbut they doubled the .bin size for some reason?
15:31:12linuxstbThat shouldn't happen...
15:31:13amiconnlinuxstb: That fragment doesn't tell anything without all the referenced stuff
15:32:21linuxstbamiconn: What stuff? But I think I understand it now - I didn't recognise ADR. But the code just seems to be relocating itself.
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15:34:23scorcheJdGordon: well, it still hasnt reset, and i am going to bed
15:34:29JdGordonok, thanks
15:34:32JdGordongnight
15:35:37*GodEater_ wonders if LLorean is around yet
15:42:12JdGordonlinuxstb: any other ideas?
15:44:06linuxstbJdGordon: Revert back to SVN, add your code to disable the wheel light at the very top of main-pp.c, followed by an infinite loop, and see what happens.
15:44:17JdGordondone that....
15:44:22JdGordonsitting with a blue wheel light
15:46:27linuxstbWhat does your code look like to turn the wheel off?
15:47:05JdGordoncalls __button_backlight_off() which is just GPIOG_OUTPUT_VAL &= 0x80
15:47:29linuxstbYou didn't init GPIOG ?
15:48:19JdGordonI added that after all the _init() calls...
15:48:22JdGordonso it should be init
15:49:54amiconnI'd rather init & manipulate the port directly rather than relying on rb functions for a test
15:51:41JdGordonbah, good call amiconn, system_init() is empty for BOOTLOADER builds :(
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15:54:47GodEater_you live and learn ;)
15:54:55tehxedSometimes you don't learn at all
15:54:58*tehxed points to self.
15:55:20GodEater_that can be said of most of us, sometimes
15:56:52tehxedDoes anyone know what the average battery life is on the Gigabeat F20 for viewing videos?
15:57:18linuxstbI _think_ Llorean did a test once, and got about 4-5 hours.
15:57:23tehxedOr does anyone know of any thread or any link they can give me relevant to this querey
15:57:55tehxedquery*. Thank you linuxstb. Hmm.. 4 to 5.. that's pretty good.
15:58:19linuxstbtehxed: But don't trust my memory - try and catch Llorean next time he's here (he's here most days)
15:58:57tehxedI need to set this up so I know when s/he's online.
15:59:50delYsidso, if I also export language_strings[] via plugin_api I should be able to get popup menus working if I use ID2P and alike instead of hardcoded strings in the plugins, right?
16:00
16:00:16delYsid(working as in talking)
16:01:20linuxstbdelYsid: You mean add the plugin strings to the core .lang file?
16:01:35delYsidwell, yes :-)
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16:02:35JdGordon_linuxstb: http://pastebin.ca/681026 is correctly init the gpio right?
16:02:38delYsidI am afraid I am not brave enough to invent a whole plugin voice/lang file loader...
16:03:41JdGordonoh crap
16:03:45linuxstbJdGordon_: Yes, that's the same as the code in button_init_device()
16:03:46JdGordoni just spotted a stupid typo :p
16:04:04linuxstbBut you should be doing this at the _very_ start of main-pp.c
16:04:30tehxedlinuxstb: Are you certain "Llorean" is the correct username (spelling and all)?
16:04:43linuxstbYes
16:04:44amiconndelYsid: Adding plugin localisation(voice strings to the core won't be accepted
16:04:50tehxedThank you.
16:05:03JdGordonlinuxstb: typo fixed and everything above that commented out.. no change :(
16:05:27JdGordonwe definatly dont want to link to 40004000?
16:05:39delYsidamiconn: so I would have to write per-plugin lang/voice handling?
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16:06:51delYsidthat leads to duplication though, right now I can reuse the letters from a to h and number from 1 to 8 for chessbox for instance.
16:06:55linuxstbJdGordon: At this stage it shouldn't matter - the code should execute anywhere... How big is your bootloader.bin ?
16:07:17JdGordon664b
16:07:38linuxstbOK - that's about what I would expect. gcc has optimised away eveything...
16:07:41amiconndelYsid: No, it means implementing the users: idea for lang/voice.
16:08:35delYsidamiconn: I'm afraid I didnt understand that.
16:08:41JdGordonlinuxstb: do you have any idea why e2t seems to write the data length before the data to the usb?
16:08:57linuxstbJdGordon: I guess that's what the e200 is expecting to receive.
16:09:46`sam`has anybody tried out this wikipedia viewer? i can't figure out what wikipedia archive i'm supposed to download to convert
16:10:34tehxedOh man, I am about to ask a relatively stupid question, but.. I can't help myself
16:10:42hcs`sam`: you'd want the -pages-articles.xml archive
16:10:52tehxedIs there any plugins that come with the rockbox for viewing text files?
16:11:03*tehxed waits to get kicked in the nuts.
16:11:05`sam`hcs, thanks! that's the one i started downloading thinking it might be it, but wasn't sure
16:11:18linuxstbtehxed: Yes - but it's a "viewer", so it doesn't appear in the plugin list. You start it by clicking on a .txt file in the file browser.
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16:11:48linuxstbtehxed: The manual lists all the plugins and viewers that come with Rockbox...
16:11:51kugelsup?
16:12:18tehxedlinuxstb: on it now. Thanks.
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16:12:44JdGordonwhat should 664 look like in little endian 32 bits?
16:13:00JdGordon664 decimal
16:13:18linuxstb664 is 0x298 - 98 02 00 00
16:13:34 Part rogelio ("Kopete 0.12.4 : http://kopete.kde.org")
16:13:41JdGordonok, then thats correct
16:14:14tehxedFunny thing, I switched to rockbox a few months back... only because the original toshiba interactive environment provided was limiting, to say the least. Switched to Rockbox only because I heard that I could drag and drop files for mp3 playback without SAT encryption. Only found out now that I could infact play videos on it.
16:14:30linuxstbJdGordon: Can you pastebin the output of "arm-elf-obdump -b binary -m arm -D bootloader.bin" ?
16:14:36linuxstb^objdump
16:14:56linuxstbtehxed: That manual is a wonderful thing...
16:15:42JdGordon_http://pastebin.ca/681043
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16:17:06linuxstbJdGordon: And your bootloader/main-pp.c ?
16:17:47JdGordon_http://pastebin.ca/681045
16:17:59JdGordonunless you want the whole file?
16:19:37linuxstbHave you tried just disabling the LED, rather than that while() loop?
16:19:55tehxedWhere would I look in the manual to turn off the ID tags for files all together?
16:19:55JdGordoni did before, i dont think it worked... ill try again
16:20:48JdGordonlinuxstb: ok.. maybe it does...
16:21:08linuxstbJdGordon: i.e. the three GPIOG... lines, followed by an empty loop - while(1);
16:21:17JdGordonyep
16:21:20JdGordonsansa is blank
16:21:27JdGordoni mean, no light
16:21:35linuxstbThat's correct isn't it?
16:21:40JdGordonyes
16:21:47linuxstbSo the code is running OK?
16:21:49JdGordonbut, shouldnt the wile loop work?
16:23:05JdGordonwoot!
16:23:13JdGordonthe loop was going to fast
16:23:21JdGordondelay of 10000 does a nice fast flash!
16:23:47linuxstbNow you can make it communicate debugging info to you via morse code...
16:23:55JdGordonhaha, great
16:24:16hcs`sam`: I've put up an updated patch for the viewer
16:24:27`sam`hcs, just now?
16:24:32*amiconn once did that on archos, when debugging the self extractor
16:24:43hcs`sam`: yeah
16:24:47amiconnI mean, flashing out bits via a LED
16:26:01JdGordonso, how much of the e200tool.c am I allowd to copy into a new file and still call it my own? or do i have to literally rewrite every line?
16:26:28`sam`hcs, ok, the last patch applied cleanly once i took out the SUBDIR part at the end, i just made that edit manually
16:27:03`sam`hcs, by last patch i mean mww21
16:27:36linuxstbJdGordon: I would start by stripping out all the code you don't need, and see what's left... And then worry about how we're going to deal with the (C) issue later.
16:27:44hcs`sam`: ok, as noted there weren't any important changes
16:27:51linuxstbProbably by the time you've finished, the code won't be very similar to e200tool anyway.
16:29:04`sam`hcs, do you know if anybody has a torrent for the wikipedia dump? i'm using wget right now, but it's goign to take a while
16:29:59n1sWonders where the changelog for binutils 2.18 is hidden... _(
16:32:05hcs`sam`: I don't think so. I get fairly good speeds from the wikimedia server (over 1 MB/s)
16:33:57linuxstbJdGordon: I don't know what you're doing now, but I would try and see if the ata driver is working... That's all we need.
16:34:20JdGordonjust about have a trimmed down e200tool wich is usable
16:34:50JdGordonits 12.35am here so i dont tihnk ill try getting ata working tonight..
16:36:08 Quit hcs ("Leaving.")
16:37:24JdGordonlinuxstb: I assume this cant go on svn?
16:38:12linuxstbIt's too early for that...
16:38:26linuxstbWe don't even know if we can get this approach to work.
16:38:36JdGordonyeah, I mean just so its somewhere others can grab to help experiment
16:39:13linuxstbI would just host it on my own website for now.
16:39:31JdGordon_im going to bed.. but my stripped version is at jdgordon.info:8080/jonno/rockbox/e200tool.c.">http://jdgordon.info:8080/jonno/rockbox/e200tool.c. ./e200tool file to run it
16:41:20`sam`when it says you can "PLAY" a new version of rockbox, how exactly do you do that? just browse to it in the file browser and select rockbox.ipod?
16:41:52dionoeayup
16:42:38 Quit JdGordon_ ("Konversation terminated!")
16:43:02JdGordongnight all
16:43:07 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
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16:50:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:58:52tehxedIs there anyway to bookmark certain part/s of a text file using the text viewer?
16:59:47bluebrotherno
17:00
17:00:03bluebrotherthe viewer only saves the last position
17:02:18 Quit elinenbe_work (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC for those that like to be different")
17:02:32tehxedThanks bluebrother
17:03:03kugelwhat did you do with the e200tool?
17:03:29kugelare you going to make an installier for the R with parts from this tool?
17:06:37 Quit rift ("d'accord")
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17:17:58linuxstbkugel: Yes, the intention is to make the R install as easy as we can.
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17:20:06bluebrotherhmm. Does anybody know if there are sources for usbids.exe around?
17:20:07 Quit webguest62 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:20:44kugelyou mentioned (c) issues with the e200tool
17:21:03kugelisn't it released under GPL?
17:21:13kugelit's open source IIRC
17:22:08bluebrotherno, it's not. At least not in terms of GPL
17:22:28 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
17:23:08kugelwhat license is it?
17:23:29bluebrotherand to be able to include it in rbutil we need it to be GPL (or something compatible)
17:23:56bluebrotherthe zip doesn't contain a license file. The sources just say (c) MrH
17:24:33delYsidthats very non-free then...
17:25:02kugeli have licensing in my advanced informatics atm
17:25:31kugelthe teacher says, if there is no license, then there is nothing to break
17:25:45kugeldunno about the (c), but it must be listed
17:25:47rasherkugel: There's also no permission to redistribute.
17:25:48bluebrotherwell, that's an opinion.
17:26:34rasherEither you misunderstood your teacher, or he's a very confused man
17:26:43kugelyou can only break licenses which acutally exist
17:26:44bluebrotheras the tool is (c) MrH he can decide what's allowed to do with it. Unless he allows integrating it it's not allowed.
17:27:02rasherkugel: If there's no license, standard copyright protections apply
17:27:05delYsidkugel: no, thats not correct.
17:27:12kugelbut license != (c) thats why im not sure
17:27:13bluebrotherplus, the GPL doesn't allow us to integrate code with a non-compatible license. "No license" is definitely not compatible
17:27:52bluebrotheras putting it under GPL would be relicensing the code which we are definitely not allowed to do.
17:28:32GodEater_because we don't own the copyright
17:29:02GodEater_oh god no
17:29:27*GodEater_ looks at dismay at the first e200r installation thread
17:30:39kugeljust to let you know, i know that copyright is a very different issue than license, you dont have to tell me that
17:31:19rasherkugel: you seem to not grasp that "no license" means "standard copyright protections apply"
17:31:30rasherWhich means we can't do *anything* with the code
17:31:31kugelno
17:31:38kugeli didnt say that
17:31:52kugel"dunno about the (c), but it must be listed"
17:31:56kugelthats what i said
17:32:00bluebrotherGodEater_: referring to the "installing it now"?
17:32:07rasherkugel: "if there is no license, then there is nothing to break"
17:32:18GodEater_bluebrother: yes :(
17:32:19rasherThat's incorrect. There's copyright laws to break.
17:32:23kugeli meant no license obvously
17:32:26GodEater_he's dumb as a box of frogs that boy
17:32:39bluebrotherseems.
17:32:51kugelat least in context with my next sentence
17:33:05bluebrotherkugel: also, we don't accept anonymous contributions so we can't just integrate that code.
17:36:50kugeldid you say that i am dumb as a box o frogs?
17:37:03kugelof
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17:37:32bluebrotherkugel: scroll back. Read again. Notice GodEater_ was referring to someone else.
17:38:07kugelhmm ok
17:38:48GodEater_if I'd been calling you that kugel, I'd have made sure you knew it was directed at you
17:38:50GodEater_it wasn't
17:39:37kugelok ;)
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17:40:18tehxedHello Llorean
17:41:47LloreanHi
17:41:52tehxedLlorean: Would you happen to know how long the video playback lasts on the Gigabeat F20?
17:42:03GodEater_wow - you pounce quick tehxed :)
17:42:27LloreanI got over four hours on my F40, but that was prior to some recent optimizations, and was with widescreen video which takes a little less work than fullscreen.
17:42:34tehxedGodEater_: I had a voice memo attached to Llorean's name. It reminded me to contact him. I was afk but I heard since I had the speakers turned up
17:42:41LloreanI think I got over 5 but I'm not sure.
17:42:45GodEater_hahaha
17:43:04*n1s curses m68k-elf-ld 2.18
17:43:07*GodEater_ thinks people should take a ticket for Llorean's time :)
17:43:40tehxedLlorean: If you can, just quickly, tell me about these "optimizations" or.. are they too advanced for beginners?
17:44:04GodEater_tehxed: I imagine they were made by jhMikes
17:44:11 Quit pepie34 ("Ex-Chat")
17:44:14Lloreantehxed: I didn't make them, nor know what was done in them, but they are pretty darn advanced as far as I know, yes.
17:44:15GodEater_he's taken over most of the mpegplayer plugin code base I bleieve
17:44:32GodEater_or believe, when using the Oxford English spelling.
17:44:35LloreanGodEater_: Good guess on who made 'em. This was prior to the "We now get 40fps fullscreen" one, which was the first of several.
17:44:36tehxedPoop. =(
17:46:12GodEater_tehxed: why does it matter what they are ?
17:46:55LloreanWell if he wants to know, it's not like the source isn't available.
17:47:23GodEater_Llorean: we've had our first idiot dive in with the e200r
17:47:42n1shmm, if I pipe the output of "make V=1" to a text file some lines are too long so they are cut off, anyone know how to fix that?
17:47:59tehxedGodEater_: Just wondering. I only recently managed to get video working with A/V synchronized on my Gigabeat F20 and maybe it's just me but the battery bar seems to drain a lot faster with video playback. Could be just me though. Checked the time available and it kept varying. =(
17:48:21GodEater_tehxed: I'm sure the battery drain IS faster - the backlight is on permanently for a start
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17:49:25LloreanGodEater_: I've known he'd be among the first wave for some time, search his old posts and I suspect you'll see.
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17:49:54Lloreantehxed: As I said, expect 4 hours if you have a *new* battery.
17:49:57tehxedGodEater_: Oh I assumed as much.. but I mean it went down by say 1/3 in about 5 to 10 minutes after a video. While with another video it'll actually stay where it is for quite a while (a decent hour or 2)
17:50:41delYsidIs there a way to generically detect if the currently running code is a plugin (and fetch its name)?
17:50:43webguest23someone plz help me i bricked my sansa
17:50:47GodEater_tehxed: that, I suspect, is probably lack of battery calibration
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17:51:22webguest23i tried to put on rockbox on my e250r can you help me plz :(
17:51:36tehxedOh man! That guy's name is WICKED
17:51:42tehxed"webguest23"
17:52:07Lloreantehxed: It's automated for the webclient. Please stay on topic, this is a technical channel.
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17:52:19tehxedLlorean: Roger that.
17:52:20webguest23hello can you help me plz
17:52:27Lloreanwebguest23: 1) HAVE PATIENCE.
17:52:46webguest23sorry
17:52:50LloreanThere is nobody in here being paid to support you, and you are not guaranteed support by anyone, ever, so have a little patience and be polite.
17:53:22GodEater_*AND* you were TOLD not to do the bloody install in the first place
17:53:51Lloreanwebguest23: The process for recovering an e200r is actually the same as installing Rockbox, assuming that you want Rockbox to be installed after you recover it.
17:53:56tehxedHow would I determine what my battery capacity is (for my Gigabeat F20?)
17:54:05tehxed(I'm going to kick myself if this is also in the manual)
17:54:47webguest23no i don't want it to be installed but how do i enter recovery mode?
17:54:48GodEater_tehxed: there's a page or so in the wiki on battery calibratino
17:55:01Lloreantehxed: If you haven't put in a new battery, don't change the capacity.
17:55:33Lloreanwebguest23: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200Unbrick
17:55:45tehxedLlorean: Thanks.
17:55:51webguest23thank you
17:56:28webguest23then all i do is to just delete rockbox and the files that were on it?
17:56:38bluebrotherwebguest23: read that page ...
17:57:39webguest23it does not say how to boot into recovery mode how to you do that?
17:58:31Lloreanwebguest23: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200TroubleShooting
17:58:39LloreanWe do require that you search the wiki.
17:58:42webguest23thank you
17:58:53LloreanI do hope that next time you ask a question, I won't answer it with a wiki link, I'll be most irate.
17:59:35*GodEater_ doesn't want to watch Llorean get green and split his shirt.
17:59:37bluebrotherplus, the steps you did first _told_ you how you enter recovery mode
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18:00
18:00:06bluebrotherreading seems to be *really* hard.
18:00:24tehxedWhat's a good Disk Spindown time for the Gigabeat F20?
18:00:41Lloreantehxed: Depends on your use habits.
18:01:14LloreanBut if you're using dircache, it can probably be set to as short a time as available.
18:01:28tehxedHmm.. i guess right now it's okay. I enabled directory cache.
18:01:56webguest23then i just go to sandisk site and download the fimware and put it into the sansa right?
18:02:38bluebrotherguys, who wants to point to the wiki?
18:02:48Lloreanwebguest23: The first page I linked you clearly says " you copy an original firmware mi4 file to the device and disconnect it"
18:02:54alienbiker99for the e200r, can you still use the r firmware or does putting rockbox turn it vanilla?
18:02:57LloreanOut of curiosity, how does that not answer your question?
18:03:32linuxstbwebguest23: What was the last step of the install instructions you did before your Sansa stopped functioning?
18:03:53linuxstbalienbiker99: You can keep the R firmware. The Rockbox install method patches the Sansa bootloader so that it will load Rockbox.
18:04:13webguest23i copyed rockbox to the sansa
18:04:38alienbiker99oh i see, because i kind of want to test the rhapsody function, but i might want to get rid of it
18:04:40linuxstbwebguest23: Which file, and where did you copy it to?
18:05:01webguest23the root
18:05:57linuxstbI asked two questions...
18:06:10linuxstbAnd which mode was your Sansa in at that time ? Normal USB mode, or recovery mode?
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18:07:01webguest23normal
18:08:06ZomHey, I've got a problem with the recent builds of rockbox: Whenever I try to play a musicfile roxbox just gives me "data abort at 00030B6C", anybody have a similar problem?
18:08:21ZomOr even better, a solution to said problem?
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18:08:44kugelare you using SVN?
18:08:47bluebrotherZom: what Ipod? What bootloader?
18:08:48ZomYeah
18:09:08Zombluebrother: Not sure about the bootloader, perhaps a year old. It's an ipod video
18:09:36bluebrotherthen update the bootloader
18:09:36kugelI've heard many people reporting data aborts recently
18:10:06bluebrotherthere was a required update about half a year ago.
18:10:11Zombluebrother: Could you help me with that? I've tried the ipodpatcher wich claims my ipod is not an ipod :)
18:10:29kugelbluebrother: the sansabootloader changed today, is that right?
18:10:40Zombluebrother: Using linux by the way
18:10:49bluebrotherdid you install ipl or something else?
18:10:51linuxstbkugel: It changed in SVN, but a new version hasn't been released.
18:11:02kugelok thats what i meant
18:11:12dionoeaisn't it in rockboxutilityqt ?
18:11:14Zombluebrother: No, I'm using rockbox but my pc is running linux
18:11:20bluebrotherkugel: the svn log is available on the frontpage ...
18:11:20webguest23thank you guys :D it worked from on i will only get rockbox when a safe build is on :D that you Llorean and linuxstb:D
18:11:21linuxstbZom: Can you pastebin the output of "fdisk -l /dev/sda" (where /dev/sda is your ipod) ?
18:11:29Zomlinuxstb: One sec
18:11:40kugelthats where i got my information :P
18:12:01kugelactually i was about to ask if its recommended to update the bootloader
18:12:08kugelfor my sansa
18:12:12bluebrotherkugel: no
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18:12:25linuxstbkugel: If it was recommended, we would actually release it...
18:12:49Zomlinuxstb: http://pastebin.com/d2dcce31c
18:12:51bluebrotherbootloaders are released as they are much more critical (depending on platform) than normal Rockbox
18:13:21linuxstbZom: Change the type of the 2nd partion to 0xb - that should fix it.
18:13:29kugelmaybe you are in a testing phase, meaning that the newer bootloader is better, but it wouldn't be tested enough
18:13:37kugelfor a official release
18:13:43bluebrotherZom: or try http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/RockboxUtilityQt
18:13:44Zomlinuxstb: How?
18:14:03bluebrotherthat includes a newer version of ipodpatcher which recognizes 0x0c as partition type
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18:14:13bluebrotherZom: use fdisk /dev/sda
18:14:27 Quit spiorf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:14:54bluebrotherthen t - 2 - c
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18:14:57linuxstbZom: As root, run "fdisk /dev/sda", then type "t 2 b w q" (IIRC)
18:15:10Lloreankugel: If we needed testers, we'd ask for them, but we still wouldn't "recommend" an update.
18:15:16Zombluebrother: I think I'd rather try the rockbox utility qt before messing with fdisk :)
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18:15:25linuxstbZom: (press ENTER between each of those letters)
18:15:32Lloreankugel: You're more than welcome to try the new bootloader version, but it shouldn't be expected to work.
18:16:31linuxstbZom: Yes, rbutilqt will correctly detect your ipod. 0xc was added as a valid partition type recently - rbutilqt was released after that change, but ipodpatcher hasn't been.
18:16:40ZomNice
18:16:51Zomlinuxstb, bluebrother: Thanks for the help :)
18:17:49kugelsure, im willing to test
18:18:02kugel1.25s sounds noce
18:18:24kugelnice*,
18:19:04*kugel is stopping the time
18:19:20Lloreankugel: Please remember the "multiple short lines" guidelines.
18:19:52kugeli also remember the proper english guidline, thats why i correct myself
18:20:13 Quit kugel ("Benutzer ist abwesend.")
18:20:17bluebrotherwell, typos are allowed in here, as long as you try to write proper english ;-)
18:20:39LloreanI was more thinking about his first two lines anyway, and the dozen other times he wrote 3-5 lines in a row. =/
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18:26:10Zomlinuxstb, bluebrother: The QT-gui stuff didn't work. Didn't recognize the ipod. The fdisk way worked great though, thanks :)
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18:26:40Hossfunk, yo?
18:26:43bluebrotherhmm, it didn't work? You ran it as root, did you?
18:27:02Zombluebrother: No :b
18:27:09bluebrotherbut ipodpatcher?
18:27:13Zombluebrother: Yeah
18:27:22bluebrotherah, so that's the solution ;-)
18:27:27ZomHehe
18:27:41n1sbluebrother: couldn't rbutil warn if not run as root?
18:27:42bluebrotheripodpatcher (and thus rbutil, when trying to do that part) needs direct access to the hardware.
18:27:52ZomThe QT-gui is kinda nice for themes and stuff though
18:27:59ZomThanks for the tip :)
18:28:03bluebrothern1s: it could, but this would only make sense if trying to install the bootloader.
18:28:39bluebrotherbesides, you get an error message −− we could add a "check permissions" hint to that. Might be easier.
18:29:02bluebrotherdepending on your setup you _might_ be able ipodpatcher-ing without root permissions
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18:29:58n1sI guess I think it would be nicer to tell the user what's wrong instead of silently failing
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18:32:28linuxstb_n1s: Yes, I think that's what rbutil needs - more instructions to guide the user when things go wong.
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18:34:05n1shmm, weird _some_ button actions actually work...
18:34:54*n1s summons Lear
18:34:56`sam`yeah i don't need to be root for ipodpatcher, and i'd rather not if i don't have to
18:35:33kugelthe bootloader works nice
18:35:46kugelover 1 second faster boot is no lie
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18:38:11kugelLlorean: i tested to bootloader, it's fine, indeed over 1 second faster boot, no database problems or anything else
18:41:15Lloreankugel: I never said the bootloader needs testing. And I'm not really sure why you're reporting things to me, I'm not the one who made the changes to it.
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18:43:50kugel"You're more than welcome to try the new bootloader version", read test instead of try, sorry that i disturb you
18:43:56amiconnlinuxstb: Hmm, am I right that non-ipod pp targets have bootloader USB while ipods haven't?
18:44:10kugeli just thought, it might need some testing, because it wasnt released yet
18:44:25linuxstb_amiconn: Only the Sansa
18:44:31amiconnah
18:44:38amiconnAny specific reason?
18:45:03linuxstb_Just that JdGordon (IIRC) decided to implement it...
18:45:06Lloreanamiconn: More or less just the way things happened, if I understand.
18:45:15n1samiconn: I had partial sucess with gcc 4.3 for coldfire, using m68k-elf-ld 2.16 I get a booting rockbox that plays music but most button actions, rtc, battery reading are broken
18:45:19LloreanSansa Rockbox doesn't reboot from Rockbox into the OF, but the bootloader does.
18:45:20amiconnI mean, as long as we don't have usb support in rockbox, it would save time if the bootloaders detect usb
18:46:29linuxstb_Although the Sansa is different to the ipods - the bootloader starts the OF if USB is inserted. On the ipods, we would want to start the emergency disk mode app in flash (but some ipods may benefit from the OF being loaded...)
18:46:56amiconnRight now if I start with the ipod switched off and want to transfer something, it boots into rockbox, detects usb and then reboots
18:46:57Lloreanlinuxstb_: Even with how slow USB mode is on Nano, I don't think booting the OF is preferable.
18:47:26LloreanOnce in the OF you need a key combination to reboot back to RB, while on the Sansas it behaves more like disk mode on the iPods.
18:47:31amiconnDisk access is also slow on H10, btw
18:47:46linuxstb_Llorean: The Sansa OF reboots after a usb connection?
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18:47:56amiconnNothing we can do about that as long as we don't have UMS in rockbox itself
18:48:45krazykitlinuxstb_, it reboots after you unplug it
18:48:57Lloreanlinuxstb_: It does the way Rockbox does it.
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18:49:40amiconn(but on H10 our bootloader doesn't need usb detection because the iriver flash loader already detects usb and doesn't even start ours in that case
18:50:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:52:06linuxstb_Ideally we would directly execute the Apple disk mode app that's in flash - i.e. copy it to RAM and execute it. I experimented with doing that in Rockbox, but I think it will work better in the bootloader (no Rolo issues)...
18:52:30linuxstb_Only question is if enabling the USB hardware will upset the OF...
18:53:21amiconnThe diskmode app rolo didn't work for me
18:55:25linuxstb_I've since discovered that the Apple bootloader is writing some info into IRAM before starting the OF (or our bootloader). I experimented a little with saving and then restoring this info and that seems to make the diskmode app start reliably for me.
18:55:40linuxstb_I'll see what happens in the bootloader... I agree it would be a nice feature.
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19:03:29bluebrothersomeone with an Ipod Video 64MB around? I'd be interested in the USB PID of that device
19:04:21parafinhow can i get it?
19:04:29parafinon linux
19:04:47bluebrothercheck /proc/bus/usb/devices
19:06:15parafinand which number do you need?
19:06:34bluebrotherthe ProdID. Vendor should be 05ac
19:06:46parafinProdID=1209
19:07:06bluebrotherdamn. So it's really the same as the other videos.
19:07:08bluebrotherthanks.
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19:09:20`sam`how do you know if it's 32MB or 64MB ipod video?
19:09:44bluebrotherby checking the disc size.
19:10:21bluebrotherbut if someone swapped the disc this would fail. As I want to use USB PIDs for autodetection in rbutil it would've been great if the IDs were different.
19:11:10`sam`the disc size is 30GB... but that doesn't tell me how much RAM it has
19:11:42parafin32MB
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19:12:00Llorean`sam`: All 30gb models have 32mb, all 60/80gb models have 64mb, unless they've had their disk swapped for some reason.
19:12:04`sam`so all the 30GB ipod videos are 32MB ram?
19:12:07`sam`ok thanks Llorean
19:12:30parafinbluebrother, may be Rev differs? on my iPod it's Rev= 0.02
19:13:59bluebrotherhmm, could be possible. Now we need someone to check a 32MB Ipod for the rev
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19:16:32`sam`Vendor=05ac ProdID=1209 Rev= 0.02
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19:16:55parafinno luck here
19:17:35Zom32 MB ipod video here: Vendor=05ac ProdID=1209 Rev= 0.01
19:17:48`sam`so was mine
19:18:14parafinehm?
19:18:35`sam`the info i posted is for a 30GB(32MB) ipod video
19:19:08parafinIs it 5G or 5.5G?
19:19:21`sam`5.5
19:19:45parafinZom, and yours?
19:20:52parafinwell, i guess it's 5G
19:20:59parafinit would be logical
19:21:17Zomparafin: 30 GB
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19:21:47parafinZom, there are two variants of 30 GB iPod Video - old and new...
19:22:07`sam`zom if the last 3 digits of the serial are W9G then it is a 5G, otherwise it's 5.5G
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19:22:32ZomOh
19:22:46`sam`according to http://www.ipodlinux.org/5.5G
19:23:11ZomTXK here, guess it's a 5.5
19:23:34`sam`i don't even see TXK on the list...
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19:23:55ZomHm
19:23:56`sam`Zom: you looking on the back of the ipod at the serial number?
19:24:41ZomYeah
19:25:05Zom4U544DK2TXK
19:25:27parafinthen it's 5G
19:25:37parafinThe Fifth Generation iPod (Late 2006, 5.5G) serial number's last three digits will be one of the following
19:25:59ZomI'd guess, bought it in 2005 :)
19:26:53`sam`oh ok, so they don't list all of the possible last 3 digits for the 5G... just that special edition one, i guess i read it wrong
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19:33:42bluebrotherurgh. Windows DDK requires at least 800MB disc space :(
19:34:03el_MArkowhats the difference between the 5g and the 5.5g ?
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19:35:22`sam`el_MArko, i don't know what, if any, difference there is in hardware, i know that in the OF the 5.5G has a search function
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19:36:04`sam`el_MArko, but i'd say there is probably a hardware difference, wouldn't make sense to build a new one just to add that
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19:36:32amiconnoops
19:37:10`sam`"The screen is now 60% brighter, the battery can last up to 3.5 hours during video playback, and the iPod includes new headphones, but otherwise the specs remain the same."
19:37:51`sam`http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/12/apple-launches-enhanced-6g-ipod/ <−−notice that says 6G, but the article says 5.5G
19:38:06n1sel_MArko: there is a difference in the hard drives, larger sectors iirc also the 80gb variant has a different ata interface, which was the reason that it took much longer for it to be supported
19:38:17Jangarimeh, terminology
19:38:58`sam`ok well i should stop answering questions i don't know the right answer to :)
19:39:22Jangarii found a build that didn't have that fatal bugm if anyine who was in this morning gives a fuck
19:40:01amiconnn1s: The sector size is the only difference (large physical sectors, an ata-7 feature)
19:40:39amiconnThat is, only the 80GB has large physical sectors on the actual disk, but both the 30GB and the 80GB present large sectors via USB
19:41:19n1samiconn: aha, I guess I got confused :-)
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19:47:16DerPapsthi :)
19:47:36DerPapstanybody with a 5G and the latest OF here?
19:49:09GodEaterwhere did the 2b instructions for the e200r appear from - and do they work /
19:49:10GodEater?
19:49:22GodEaterI thought we were certain this is linux only
19:49:53GodEaterah nvm - I actually read them - I get it now ;)
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19:53:43`sam`hcs, are you around?
19:54:13`sam`hcs i was testing this viewer, and i tried to select the .wwi file but it doesn't do anything
19:54:43hcs`sam`: maybe try the new patch?
19:54:51`sam`i did
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19:55:06linuxstbamiconn: It seems the Rockbox usb_init() upsets both the OF and the diskmode app... I can start the diskmode app directly from flash, or I can detect USB, but not both...
19:55:26DinCahillhi. im using ubuntu feisty and i downloaded the rockbox zip. in there is a folder ./rockbox, and it doesnt appear on my ipod when i extract it there
19:55:28hcs`sam`: well, I'm just about ready to test it from scratch myself, so we'll see in a moment if it still works, what target do you have?
19:55:33`sam`hcs, but i booted it up in one version of rockbox then used rolo to select the version with mww, i'm going to try and boot straight into the new one
19:55:34clutchAnyone here convert a e200r?
19:55:56n1sDinCahill: press Ctrl+h in nautilus to see it
19:55:56advcomp2019scorche has
19:56:32DinCahilln1s: thanks. what does that actually do?
19:57:02`sam`hcs, it's ipod video(5.5G), but i just booted straight into the new build i made and now the viewer is working
19:57:19clutchI'm trying to put the patched boot loader. keep getting message LUN0 unlocked followed by LUN0 locked. After I get tired and pull the cable I get back to Rhapsody. I'm following instructions.
19:57:33hcs`sam`: ok, cool
19:57:44`sam`hcs, so probably something with rolo, it wasn't using the right settings i guess when i switched
19:58:27advcomp2019clutch: are you in linux
19:58:47hcs`sam`: potentially, I've never used rolo so I don't know. it's just a standard viewer plugin, though, so it should work as well as any other
19:59:19`sam`hcs, how do i "press enter" after putting in the search term
19:59:20clutchI'm using FC5
19:59:26clutchFedora Core.
19:59:31hcs`sam`: play
19:59:54`sam`hcs, sweet! yeah it's working :)
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20:00:41Jangariadios folkd time for bed
20:01:05Jangaris/folkd/folks
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20:01:34advcomp2019clutch: there is a few step that needs to be right
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20:03:20 Part DinCahill
20:03:41amiconn_linuxstb: hrmph
20:03:42n1sLear: (for the logs) ok using latest gcc 4.3 snapshot and binutils 2.17 creates a booting rockbox that plays music :-) It seemed to be a problem with LD creating a corrupt binary with 2.18 as binutils 2.18 with LD from 2.16 worked too. Some things are broken however, rtc reading doesn't work, some button actions seem broken, in wps I can only play/pause, enter and exit menu, browsing menu doesn't work, voice does however
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20:05:01n1sAlso battery is reported as being constantly full, but if I compile with -O I get a low battery shutdown immediately when booting...
20:08:07clutchHow do you know if you successfully updated the bootloader on a e200r. I haven't bricked the unit but it never told me it was done, just a long period of LUN0 locked
20:08:22clutchLUN0 unlocked
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20:09:08clutchFinally I pulled the usb cable figuring it was looping.
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20:15:49clutchRan e200tool one more time. This time it did the job and powered down the unit. Oh well.
20:18:27`sam`is there any other way to boot to a different rockbox other than rolo?
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20:19:33*amiconn is wrestling with his sapi installation :\
20:20:40amiconnFor some reason the free (beer) L&H voices refuse to work as non-admin, both the sapi4 and sapi5 variants
20:21:10hcs`sam`: why do you need multiple versions of rockbox?
20:21:46`sam`well for now, i like to use the evilg-fusion build, but if i want to use the wikipedia viewer i have to do that in the one i built
20:22:15hcsand the evilg-fusion build doesn't provide source to patch?
20:22:17`sam`at least until all the patches are updated that i can make a build similar to the evilg build
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20:22:44`sam`hcs, i couldn't find it, all i found were the patches, but i don't know what revision of rockbox they were used on
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20:23:47hcs`sam`: hmm, that's unfortunate... you might be able to just build mww for that old revision, plugins aren't compiled into the main rockbox in any way
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20:24:36hcs`sam`: system->rockbox info should report the version
20:24:37`sam`hcs, you know what... i think i do know the revision... it's the date on the zip file of the build
20:26:34`sam`hcs, or anyone, where can i find an old daily snapshot? is there an archive somewhere?
20:26:47`sam`well that's not what i want anyway
20:26:47n1suse svn
20:26:50`sam`arghh
20:27:17`sam`ok i'm gonna have to learn some more about svn, all i know how to do is use co and update
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20:27:25n1syou can check out any of the ~14600 revisions
20:27:52n1ssvn up -r <revnumber> should do it
20:28:02BigMacHey, is there anywhere on the wiki that specifies on fixing patches
20:28:08`sam`n1s, thanks
20:28:14BigMacbecause one of the patches wouldn't build
20:28:22BigMacand I manually fixed the file locally
20:28:32BigMacand I want to upload the fixed version
20:28:44linuxstbBigMac: Then just create a new patch - "svn diff > mypatch.diff"
20:28:55n1sBigMac: upload it in the tracker entry of the previous patch
20:28:56linuxstbThe WorkingWithPatches wiki page may help
20:29:28BigMaclinuxstb: Already did and it didn't help me really
20:29:49linuxstbBigMac: Already did what - create the patch or read that wiki page?
20:29:55BigMacread the wiki page
20:30:11linuxstbThen I refer you to my previous answer...
20:30:33BigMacAnd this will produce a diff from all the changes made right? Including the ones the patch made?
20:30:47BigMaclinuxstb: I know, I was just making sure you knew I read before I asked
20:30:48linuxstbIt will create a diff containing all the files you've changed locally.
20:31:14linuxstbIf you (or the original patch) created new files, you'll need to do "svn add newfile.c" before doing the diff - so svn knows to include them.
20:31:29BigMachmm, I will have to check
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20:31:59linuxstbThe "svn status" command will help - it will list all modified files (labelled M) and files not in SVN (labelled ?)
20:32:14BigMacnice
20:32:15BigMacthanks
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20:32:45BigMacand what target do you use linuxstb, ipod right?
20:33:03linuxstbMore the Gigabeat F these days.
20:37:03BigMacHmm, ok
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21:00:18 Join DefineByte [0] (n=DefineBy@bb-87-81-195-5.ukonline.co.uk)
21:01:40DefineByteanyone have any thoughts on using the Disk Tidy plugin to remove the iPod's default files/folders?
21:02:29LloreanDefineByte: It's somewhat silly
21:02:39DefineBytewhy's that? :)
21:02:44LloreanThey're only created if you use the OF, so they're only around if you actually need them.
21:02:52hcsDefineByte: sounds like a bad idea, the other things are created by sloppy OSes whenever the device is connected, the iTunes stuff only if you're using iTunes
21:03:07DefineByteit's the only way to get decent speeds with USB currently :)
21:03:08*chrisjs169 just got back - how is it possible for e200tool to not be used on the e200R?
21:03:25LloreanDefineByte: This is only true on some Nanos, and some 5Gs.
21:03:28hcsoh, right, forgot that the OF does it
21:03:36Lloreanhcs: But not disk mode.
21:04:02LloreanDefineByte: The proper solution to the problem isn't "Make disktidy do something that a user may not want it to do" but rather "Finish up Rockbox USB support."
21:04:21*xDragonforce16x has a question
21:04:29Lloreanchrisjs169: What do you mean?
21:04:37LloreanxDragonforce16x: It's usually best just to ask the question, rather than asking to ask
21:04:48xDragonforce16xlol i know, im getting to that
21:05:24chrisjs169Llorean, I just got back from school, so I haven't read up much, but in http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200RInstallation it doesn't mention e200tool, and Rockbox can be installed via Windows, implying that e200tool doesn't need to be used now (to patch the BL)
21:05:27xDragonforce16xi have rockbox on my iriver h10 20gb and sometimes when i got to play music it freezes,
21:05:44chrisjs169Llorean, nevermind, I misread it
21:05:55xDragonforce16xgo to *
21:06:20 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
21:06:21amiconnrasher: around?
21:06:26xDragonforce16xand it 100% of the time freezes whenever i try to use some certain themes such as autobot glass
21:06:48xDragonforce16xbut it doesnt have any problem playing movies
21:06:56pixelmaxDragonforce16x: do you use an official, recent build?
21:07:03xDragonforce16xindeed
21:07:14DefineByteso rockbox takes no stop-gap measures presently?
21:08:01LloreanDefineByte: Only when it causes a significant usability problem.
21:08:17pixelmaxDragonforce16x: can you give the revision number (under system > version)?
21:08:27xDragonforce16xlemme look
21:08:44linuxstbchrisjs169: Feel free to edit - if you misread it (and you know what to do), I'm sure others will...
21:09:29LloreanDefineByte: Why should code be added that will probably be useless in a couple months, especially if it means that DiskTidy needs to behave differently for iPods than other players and the problem is a minor one to begin with?
21:09:41xDragonforce16xr14594-070903
21:10:15linuxstbDefineByte: It also seems dangerous to me - a user could run it and delete all their music...
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21:10:36Lloreanlinuxstb: Or their Photos if they don't have the iPod folders, but have created one named "Photos" anyway, and don't realize this is in the list.
21:10:51Llorean"Oh, clear the iTunes related photos? Sure!"
21:10:57LloreanErr, folders, not photos for that second one.
21:11:47DefineByteare we protecting users from themselves now?
21:12:00xDragonforce16xlol
21:12:07DefineBytedon't get me wrong, I understand why it's not desirable to have. :)
21:12:20DefineBytein an ideal world
21:12:26LloreanDefineByte: There's a different between "Protect users from themselves" and "Adding an intentionally dangerous feature."
21:12:44DefineBytelike "delete"
21:12:52Lloreanhow's a user who's never booted the Apple firmware to know it creates a "Photos" folder, which disktidy will delete if they answer "Yes" to "Remove iTunes folder structures?"
21:13:06DefineByteor allowing the user to turn the volume above a certain level
21:13:18LloreanDefineByte: You're making fallacious comparisons.
21:13:21LloreanBoth of those are explicit actions.
21:13:26LloreanRunning disktidy is not.
21:13:40LloreanIf you want them to explicitly delete the folders, they can "Delete" each folder, that function already exists.
21:13:41DefineByteit is if you tell the user with a message when you run it.
21:14:16DefineBytereally, i don't mind if it isn't added (may add it myself dunno), just interested in other people's thoughts
21:15:08LloreanDisktidy is there to remove temporary files.
21:15:21linuxstbDefineByte: I'm not completely against it - I can see how it could be useful. But it does need a big fat warning and confirmation prompt. You're also the only person to suggest it...
21:15:29DefineBytethe iPod files are quite temporay on my DAP. x)
21:15:43LloreanDefineByte: Yes, but you aren't the only user of Rockbox.
21:15:56DefineBytehey, i think outside the box (in the cold, on my own)
21:16:01Lloreanlinuxstb: I think it's too dangerous, even with a warning (considering how little some of our users read) when booting into the OF won't be necessary soon enough anyway
21:16:08RudManthat's the great thing about opensource. you want that feature, add it yourself
21:16:26DefineBytei just said i might :)
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21:16:42DefineBytebut thanks for the standard OS response :D
21:17:19LloreanYou'd have to write a very long and detailed error message
21:17:21DefineBytei know it would get ugly but you could always check the contents of the folders before deleting.
21:17:42DefineByteway too much for a temporary thing, i'm sure
21:17:48Llorean"This function will remove any files synced with iTunes, the photos folder whether you created it or the Apple firmware did, the notes folder for the same reason..."
21:18:13LloreanWhat would you look for in terms of contents? Any files not in a specific list?
21:18:36LloreanDo we check to see if their config file for the apple firmware has changed, in case they've changed the language in it and want to preserve that for example?
21:19:06LloreanThere's just a wide range of complications that can be avoided by saying "There's no real reason to do it, the delete function exists."
21:19:08DefineByteor just "warning: this action may cause you to lose all your files". anyone who doesn't know what they were doing would probably be too scared to procede. ^^
21:19:45LloreanI'd hazard that deleting each folder can be accomplished within a similar time frame to running disktidy anyway.
21:19:55DefineByteanyone thinking about writing a bash clone for RB? ;)
21:19:55LloreanDefineByte: That's an absolute lie though.
21:19:58xDragonforce16xpixelma: do you have any suggestions on how to fix my problem? no rush
21:20:27DefineBytenot really, if you don't have any files anywhere else :)
21:20:41LloreanDefineByte: But you always do. You have the .rockbox folder
21:21:07DefineBytethey're not your files though. the user can't even see them by default
21:21:14LloreanSo they're imaginary?
21:21:27LloreanA user knows they copied or extracted those files to the player, unless they used RBUtil.
21:21:30DefineByteas far as the user is concerned they don't exist :)
21:21:39pixelmaxDragonforce16x: no, unfortunately not. Just wanted to get as much info as possible so that someone with more H10 knowledge might be able to help
21:21:52DefineByteRBUtil is going to become the main method of installation, yes? :)
21:21:55linuxstbDefineByte: Multiple-item selection in the file browser would seem a better solution?
21:22:07DefineByteyes, i've wanted this for a while
21:22:09Lloreanlinuxstb: Absolutely, I've been wanting this for a long time.
21:22:12DefineBytegodo call
21:22:16DefineByte^^
21:22:20xDragonforce16xok thanks pixelma
21:22:21LloreanDefineByte: Doesn't mean they won't see it in their file browser when copying files over, or anything.
21:22:29LloreanDefineByte: It's a lie, whether they *know* there are other files or not.
21:22:37DefineByteaccortding to you they're using iTunes
21:22:46LloreanNo, according to me they MAY be using iTunes.
21:23:10BigBambiBesides if it says this will delete all your files noone will use DiskTid and we might as well remove it
21:23:25DefineByteso you're saying some users may copy theeir music using the file browser into ipod_control. hmmm
21:23:33LloreanBut it is absolutely impossible for that feature, properly functioning, to delete all their files. It may delete all the files they know about, but that is not 'All their files'
21:23:36DefineByteno one else would care about it being deleted
21:23:44LloreanDefineByte: You've misinterpreted me badly
21:23:48LloreanPlease, read carefully what I've said.
21:23:57DefineByteit would delete all 'their' files. :)
21:24:08*BigBambi votes to end this silly argument about a silly idea
21:24:11DefineByteoh i read it. :) thanks
21:24:18LloreanYou choose to redefine "their" to mean something other than "the files belonging to them"?
21:24:25LloreanOr do you think their copy of Rockbox doesn't belong to them?
21:24:46LloreanI'm saying, do not suggest lying, or even misleading, our users in my presence again. Okay?
21:24:50DefineBytei'm thinking of the users who will actually have files in ipod_control
21:25:12DefineBytenot heard that definition of lying before. :D
21:25:23Llorean"Telling them something untrue?"
21:25:26LloreanI'd say that's a common definition.
21:25:27BigBambiPeople who use iTunes to sync yet copy pictures/movies via the filetree?
21:25:31LloreanThey own their copy of Rockbox
21:25:35BigBambi*sync music
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21:25:36LloreanThe feature will not delete their copy of Rockbox
21:25:38DefineBytefrom the perspective of the user, it is true
21:25:44LloreanErgo, saying it "May delete all their files" it's untrue.
21:25:47LloreanDefineByte: Not every user.
21:26:23LloreanYou're choosing to say "We can tell them something not *strictly* true, because they won't know better"
21:26:42LloreanThis should never, EVER be an argument for telling users misleading statements.
21:26:46DefineByteHow about: "warning: this action coild delete all your content". :)
21:27:04LloreanThat's a bit better.
21:27:05DefineByte'could' being the operative word
21:27:12BigBambiand content
21:27:19LloreanContent's the important one.
21:27:26DefineBytecan you enbolden words in rockbox messages?
21:27:35LloreanNope.
21:27:40DefineByteshame :)
21:28:03 Quit lids (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:28:11LloreanBut a multiple-selection widgit would still take much less time than disktidy
21:28:23Lloreanwidget
21:28:26BigBambiand be much more useful
21:28:51DefineByteof course. that's a lot more work though :D yeah, multiple selection would be great
21:28:53 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
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21:29:18LloreanIt'd actually be useful *after* USB support is added, and not be nearly as dangerous to users who don't pay attention.
21:30:03DefineBytedefinitly :)
21:30:12DefineBytedefinitely/
21:32:09DefineByteanother thought, the 'no playlist to resume' message when you press play after finishing playback. why doesn't rockbox restart the playlist instead?
21:33:04DefineBytei know it' still their, it seems strange not to do that.
21:33:17DefineByteit's/ there/
21:33:59LloreanIf someone chooses to "Insert" after the playlist as ended, should it start a new one, or should it insert in that previously played one?
21:34:21 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952BD90.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:34:41DefineBytea new one i'd imagine, unless there was an easy method to clear a playlist
21:34:55DefineBytedon't think there is currently
21:36:21 Part Llorean
21:36:47DefineByte:'(
21:36:51BigMacHey, does the EQ adjust based upon what genre you are listening to, and if not how feasible would it be to check the id3 tag for the genre
21:37:25GodEaterBigBambi: No it doesn't. Pretty feasible - but someone would need to do it.
21:37:31GodEaterBigMac even
21:37:38linuxstbNo, rockbox can't change config based on current audio files.
21:38:03BigMacOk adding that to my list for later this year
21:38:04GodEaterthere's no reason why it couldn't though. But as I say - someone would have to write it
21:38:09DefineByteseems a lot of people want an automatic way to change configs
21:38:29BigMacI thought that would be a decent idea, would anyone else like to see that implemented?
21:38:44GodEaternot personally
21:38:48GodEaterbut I'm not against it either
21:38:50DefineBytelike, say, when headphones are detected and the like
21:38:56 Quit RudMan (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Try something fresh")
21:39:08GodEaterheadphones as opposed to what ?
21:39:27DefineBytei'd like a different config for line-out vs headphone out. :)
21:39:35GodEaterah ok
21:39:43BigMacGodEater: Well you are a developer right? I am asking in a manner as to how likely it would be that my patch would ever get committed
21:40:05DefineBytedoes it matter if you find it useful yourself?
21:40:23GodEaterBigMac: no I'm not an official developer
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21:40:27nardulEvening
21:40:28GodEaterask linuxstb :)
21:40:44BigMacDefineByte: Yes, but it takes a lot of time for a person to keep a patch insync while it waits to be comitted
21:40:48BigMaccommitted
21:41:12GodEateror even if you just wish to keep using it with current builds yourself and never intend for it to be commited
21:41:14DefineByteothers will keep it in sync if they find it useful. i do
21:41:14GodEaterit can be a trial
21:41:38GodEaterit would be unwise to rely on that
21:41:41nardulHow does rockbox read tags? I edited tags on a file but it remains untagged. It's just a normal .mp3, and my linux box see's it as a new tag, but even if i delete the rockbox database, nothing happens. It's still untagged.
21:42:17DefineBytewhat format is the file? what tagging scheme are you using?
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21:42:23crwl
21:42:38DefineByteoh mp3 m,issed that :D
21:42:39BigMacI would rather not waste time on something like this if it has no chance of ever being committed DefineByte
21:42:43linuxstbBigMac: The main rule for getting a patch committed is that it implements a useful feature in the right way. To know if both your idea and how you plan to implement it pass those criteria, it's best to discuss it on IRC before you start coding. That way you also get other devs interested, so there's more chance of someone committing it.
21:42:44DefineBytewhat tagging format?
21:43:13nardulDefineByte, Not sharp on tagging, it's apprently both v1 and v2, using id3tag to modify it.
21:43:39DefineBytetry just v2 if you can
21:43:43BigMaclinuxstb: Well will do, but I have to pick up c again and pretty much relearn it before I start it sometime in january-february
21:44:02nardulDefineByte, Only version 2? Would that change anything? I'll try it
21:44:52linuxstbnardul: Ignoring the database, if you browse to the file in the file browser and play it, do the tags appear in the WPS?
21:45:01DefineBytecan't hurt to try! (don't i sound full of confidence?)
21:45:31nardullinuxstb, No they don't. It's a podcast i downloaded from the BBC, it shouldn't have anything to do with it correct?
21:45:42nardulDefineByte, You're just a light of assurance :)
21:46:23nardulOh, i love rockbox btw, i just need more batterytime on my ipod video :9
21:46:59nardulDefineByte, uhm
21:47:00n1sBigMac: I would say that's a pretty strange feature actually, as IMO (and I know others agree) the EQ is for compensating for sound "coloration" caused by your equipment. And it would be quite difficult to implement it properly with several of our formats supporting freeform genre tags
21:47:05DefineBytei remember having files that were in multiple formats and only the ones in v1 would show up. converted all of them to v2 and voila
21:47:09nardulDefineByte, it worked ...:/
21:47:17DefineBytemight not be the same with you of course
21:47:21DefineByteheh
21:47:30nardulI'll be damned, thanks a bundle :)
21:47:33DefineBytereally? that was quick
21:47:39nardul yeah, it was!
21:47:56nardulThe major part was having to wait for it rebooting
21:47:58BigMacn1s: Right. right, didn't even think of that
21:48:03DefineByteis that a bug or what should it work?
21:48:30nardulDefineByte, If you're asking me, then i have no idea.
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21:48:52DefineBytei'm asking anyone who might know the answer :D
21:48:53BigMacn1s: I was just thinking of how arduous it is to switch eq settings everytime you switch to a different genre
21:49:36nardulDefineByte, Would you happen to know how the bookmarks work, well, how to make them work?
21:49:50DefineBytemaybe you could apply EQ to the files before putting them on the DAP. would save battery too. :)
21:50:28n1sBigMac: As I don't use the EQ at all it doesn't bother me so much :-D but I really can't understand why you would switch with different kinds of music but I guess that's just me...
21:50:52DefineBytei'd love to say that i knew all about the bookmarking feature but i've never used it, sorry
21:51:09nardulOkay, just a long shot, thank you very much
21:52:03nardulI recently read that first and second gen. ipods had their battery runtime optimized, is anything happening on the later models?
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21:52:27DefineByteif you implemented it in such a way that it would work with headphone detection too i'd likely keep it in sync for you.
21:52:43n1snardul: that was a thing specific to the wheels on those models and does not affect newer ipods
21:52:55trax382I've got a fresh install of rockbox on my ipod photo and I'm getting aborts every time I try to initialize the database. Any ideas?
21:52:59DefineBytethey were reverse engineered by amiconn
21:53:10trax382data abort at 0004551c
21:53:18BigMacn1s: because there are different settings that produce a better sounding song based on the genre it uses and some people listen to many genres. For instance, you wouldn't want to use your classical music settings for metal now would you?
21:53:21narduln1s, DefineByte Ah, okay, thank you. Will that happen to the newer models? :)
21:53:25 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:54:14DefineBytemaybe if someone sends amiconn an ipod 5G etc (if he doesn't already have one). and if he's interested. i don't know. :)
21:54:31nardulhehe, okay.
21:54:39n1strax382: did you follow the official instructions and download the ipodpatcher program from here http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/ipodpatcher/ ?
21:54:56nardulI can't afford sending him one, but i wouldn't mind contributing to a fund :)
21:55:05amiconnDefineByte: I have several PP502x targets
21:55:13trax382n1s: I did. I initally patched with the linux verison, then tried with the windows patcher. Still doens't work
21:55:25DefineBytei guess you don't want another one then! :D
21:55:34linuxstbtrax382: Have you checked your filesystem for errors?
21:55:35amiconnI'll probably work on the battery consumption issue, but there are several other things I'll do first
21:55:43n1snardul: I am not very familiar with ipod hardware but I guess not, amiconn has all the gory details :-)
21:55:53narduln1s, :)
21:56:05DefineBytedo you know if anyone's working on the 5G wheel driver?
21:56:14trax382linuxstb: well, I just ran a chkdsk on it from windows. Didn't seem to find anything.
21:56:26amiconnDefineByte: What about it? It's working fine...
21:56:26pixelmathere seem to be a few reports of data aborts while initialising the database on Ipods - just today in the forums
21:56:29nardulamiconn, Ok, no rush or pressure, but awesome!
21:56:31n1strax382: could you try adding a part of you music and trying again, it might be caused by rockbox doing something stupid while reading a file
21:56:44DefineBytehmm, llorean said it wasn't
21:56:59DefineBytein the wheel acceleration thread in the forums
21:58:00n1sBigMac: I actually use the same settings for Heavy metal and classic music and for all other music I listen too but I guess we are all different, I am however against that feature you suggested, but I don't exactly have a veto around here so you could try to get some other dev's opinions
21:58:04trax382n1s: I've tried with just one song, still doesn't work :(
21:58:38linuxstbtrax382: Are all your songs in the same format? Did you try a different song?
21:58:41amiconnDefineByte: The wheel itself works fine. Dunno about that acceleration stuff
21:58:55amiconnI'll probably look into that as well, but it's very low-pri for me
21:59:05DefineBytesomething about posistion information i guess
21:59:07trax382linuxstb: yep, multiple mp3s.
21:59:08amiconnThe wheel is fast enough for me
21:59:40DefineBytesame. i don't have that many files to scroll through :D
21:59:55 Join jdong [0] (n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong)
21:59:57linuxstbtrax382: Do the files play OK if you just use the file browser?
22:00
22:00:05jdonghey folks, long time no see :)
22:00:16trax382linuxstb: sure do, I was hoping I could keep my itunes library though.
22:00:29nardulDefineByte, amiconn, the scroll wheel is a bit slow, and most of the time it lags behind halfway through my bowie collection. But it's not a showstopper.
22:00:38jdongrandom question on the recent E200R developments.... so is a rockboxed E200R able to dual-boot OF, like the standard e200?
22:00:47DefineBytenot sure that's a driver issue
22:00:54amiconnI know how fast the scroll wheel is, also on G5
22:00:58jdongI tried reading through the forum thread on it, but I died a little inside...
22:00:59DefineByteyou can change the speed cant you? :)
22:01:09linuxstbtrax382: Then I've no ideas...
22:01:20 Quit Rob222241 (Connection timed out)
22:01:21 Quit seablue ("life, death, life, death")
22:01:35trax382linuxstb: that's a shame, I do appreciate your time though! Thank you and everyone else.
22:01:55linuxstbjdong: Yes, Rockbox can still dualboot. Although I don't know if anyone has confirmed the DRM stuff is still working fine.
22:02:00nardulDefineByte, I also want to be able to select tracks, instead of "in the vicinity of" :P
22:02:05trax382my only guess is that the ahrd drive is dying
22:02:08jdonglinuxstb: thanks for the answer
22:02:16jdonggood work rockbox team, btw :)
22:02:21DefineByteis scrolling only slow while music is playing??
22:02:43nardulDefineByte, Can't tell, i'll check
22:03:21DefineByteif it is, you may wish to look into lowering your CPU usage
22:03:32DefineBytethere are various ways you could do that
22:04:21pixelma2 people reported "data abort at 00046298" on their 30GB Ipod Videos just today
22:04:32pixelmawhen initialising the database
22:04:39linuxstbpixelma: I wonder if it's related to today's ID3 change?
22:04:42trax382I guess I could try an older build
22:05:00nardulDefineByte, It think it is, yes, hard to tell with such a short test though. How might i go on and do that?
22:05:17DefineByteare you using the software eq?
22:05:21linuxstbtrax382: It's worth trying.
22:05:22pixelmamaybe... someone could try an older build - maybe even the daily does
22:05:26DefineBytethat uses a lot
22:05:52nardulDefineByte, No i'm not
22:05:54trax382roger, I'll try a week ago
22:05:58DefineBytealso, if you re-encode your music in musepack that will save a lot
22:06:14DefineByteas will disabling dithering, if you're using it
22:06:17nardulmusepack? How's about .ogg?
22:06:24linuxstbtrax382: Were your mp3 files encoded by itunes?
22:06:29DefineBytewhat are you using at the moment?
22:06:41nardul.ogg files only.
22:06:43trax382linuxstb: maybe 7 out of 4000. Not many for sure.
22:06:55DefineBytemusepack uses about 20% less CPU
22:06:55jdongDefineByte: does dithering really use that much CPU? I'm pretty sure my boost ratio remained relatively unaffected with dithering on/off
22:07:12linuxstbtrax382: But they were transfered by itunes?
22:07:14jdong(sansa, but still PP502x)
22:07:15DefineByteback when i checked it used quite a bit
22:07:29trax382linuxstb: , yes
22:07:37DefineBytecould have changed since then of course :)
22:07:40jdongcurrently the only thing that I've seen murder CPU is the software EQ
22:07:41jdong:)
22:07:50jdongon my iPod that just kills scrolling
22:08:01trax382I'm loading the 8-27 daily build. I'll reset settings and report.
22:08:13DefineBytei was amazed at how big a difference there was between ogg vorbis and musepack
22:08:20linuxstbtrax382: Then it's definitely worth testing an older build - there was a change today to how itunes tags in mp3 files are processed...
22:08:22 Quit atsea- (Remote closed the connection)
22:08:31DefineBytewent from 59-55% to below 30%
22:08:34nardulDefineByte, hmm, i don't feel like reencoding my entire library though
22:08:42jdongDefineByte: yeah, musepack was designed to be easy to decode
22:08:51DefineBytethat's understandable :)
22:09:02jdongDefineByte: heck even old fashioned mp3 decodes faster than ogg
22:09:12jdongthough that's mostly offset by the need to use higher-bitrate mp3's
22:09:37DefineByteor you just suck up the quality loss
22:09:37trax382linuxstb: that was it, it's loading now. Thank you!!
22:09:41nardulDefineByte, The software EQ was on, and it's scrolls better no,w thanks :)
22:09:56DefineBytegood to hear> :)
22:09:59trax382linuxstb: if that occured today I'll roll back to yesterdays daily.
22:10:06nardulI'm sure that'll help my batterytime aswell though
22:10:21DefineByteprobably not as much as you'd think
22:10:25nardulAlthough i can live with 6 hours these days
22:10:27nardulokay
22:10:28linuxstbtrax382: Could you make one of your files available for testing? I don't think many (if any) Rockbox devs use itunes...
22:10:52pixelmatrax382: could you try today's daily? If linuxstb is right then the change that causes the problem was committed later
22:10:58DefineBytethe drain is so high at the moment (for reasons unknowns) that the CPU isn't really the biggest draw
22:11:12jdongnardul: turning off the EQ will at least double your battery life :)
22:11:18trax382pixelma: yes, one second. and sure linuxstb, I'll need a place to upload or e-mail though.
22:11:28DefineByteno it won't xD
22:11:33nardulDefineByte, jdong There's some discrepancy here :)
22:11:39DefineByteseems so
22:11:45jdongon my iPod it comes close to doubling.
22:11:49nardulDefineByte, I know it's the soddy hardware, but thanks
22:11:52DefineBytenaturally i am always right ;)
22:11:53linuxstbtrax382: Are you using a real IRC client, or the webclient?
22:11:58jdongit's a double-death with the iPod
22:12:03jdongthe EQ will slow down *rebuffering*
22:12:06DefineBytewhat were you getting before/after?
22:12:07jdongwhich keeps the disk spun up a lot longer
22:12:21jdonglike 3hrs before, 6.5hrs after
22:12:29DefineByteouch
22:12:33trax382linuxstb: webclient
22:12:33jdongyeah...
22:12:39jdongrebuffering was the killer
22:12:45nardulI get alot more than that even with it on
22:12:47jdongtook around 2 minutes to refill the buffer
22:12:47DefineByteokay, maybe it will. i din't know you got 3 hours with eq on!
22:12:49nardulwell
22:12:52nardul6 hours normally
22:13:04nardulLets see tomorrow without eq on
22:13:07 Quit el_MArko ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )")
22:13:11jdongwell anyway, we can all agree it significantly lowers battery life :)
22:13:49trax382Will reset settings clear the previous database cache?
22:13:50DefineBytealthough 3 hours out of the iPod's designed battery life isn't much
22:14:13DefineBytei suppose the sansa is similar
22:14:15nardulneither is 6 :)
22:14:15jdongDefineByte: it's an aging ipod though; I'm pretty sure the battery is on its way out.
22:14:27jdongDefineByte: sansa's battery life is quite good IMO
22:14:31nardulbrb
22:14:38linuxstbtrax382: No, the settings are separate to the db
22:14:39DefineByteeven with eq?
22:14:53jdongDefineByte: havne't actually tried that. I will try it soon though
22:14:54trax382linuxstb: the daily reproduces the same error
22:15:08jdongDefineByte: I'd expect the impact to be less, due to less cost of accessing ATA
22:15:27trax382linuxstb: and I'm referring to this one: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/ipodcolor/rockbox-ipodcolor-20070904.zip
22:15:28DefineBytei'd love to run a load of battery benches on my iPod but i can't face lowring the life of the battery
22:15:56jdonglikewise
22:16:01jdonglithiums don't like to be depleted
22:16:11linuxstbtrax382: Ah, there was another id3 change yesterday...
22:16:22jdongthe id3 change yesterday seems more suspicious
22:16:24trax382linuxstb: Should I try the 02 build?
22:16:36jdongrev 14593, that is
22:17:06trax38202 it is
22:17:08amiconnThe .map file should help in locating the problem
22:17:14pixelmahuh.. aren't the voice files supposed to be available from http://www.rockbox.org/daily.shtml too?
22:17:45 Quit BigBambi (Remote closed the connection)
22:17:51trax382yeah, it took me a whlie to locate the actual voices
22:17:59nardulGoodnight everyone, and thanks again DefineByte
22:18:09DefineBytedoes rockbox have an equiv to window's .dmp files with memory traces etc at the time of the crash
22:18:14DefineBytenn :)
22:18:21DefineBytenight night i should say
22:18:23 Part nardul ("Leaving")
22:18:27trax382The september 2nd build works fine
22:18:35trax382the 3rd introduces the error
22:18:43 Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@86.66.198.24)
22:18:56 Join davina [0] (n=davina@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com)
22:18:57jdongthat probably means 14593...
22:19:06 Join atsea- [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-ed52a2a4909baf87)
22:19:11n1strax382: could you try a current too?
22:19:30trax382n1s, unless you just changed something, the first file I tried was a current and it had the error
22:19:33trax382but if you want me to do it again I can.
22:19:34 Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat")
22:20:13n1strax382: so the first you tried was a _current_ and _not_ a daily?
22:20:33trax382yes
22:20:48jdongwait, there's current builds?
22:20:55n1strax382: ok, then ther's notheing more to test
22:21:03amiconnAnyone familiar with regex around?
22:21:16trax382n1s: roger, hope I've been of some help.
22:21:21jdongamiconn: err... how gruelsome regex?
22:21:22n1sjdong: yes, click the "current build" link on the left on the webpage
22:21:25DefineBytecan't you use a regex builder?
22:21:26trax382and I once more certainly appreciate the help.
22:21:36pixelmadoes someone know where the voice files are gone?
22:21:42amiconnHow do I make perl regex ignore case?
22:21:45jdongn1s: oh cool
22:21:50xDragonforce16xwhy is it that whenever i try to play a song it freezes? i have the current build, downloaded it today and put it on 10 mins ago and am still having the same problem
22:21:51jdongamiconn: should just be /i
22:21:53trax382pixelma: I found them on the daily page
22:21:56amiconnah :)
22:22:00jdongI think :)
22:22:08Bagder /i it is
22:22:09amiconnCan that be combined, i.e. /ig ?
22:22:11 Join nardul [0] (n=kse@0x50a13ed9.kjnxx4.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)
22:22:12Bagderyes
22:22:13jdongsure
22:22:14pixelmatrax382: now, today?
22:22:29trax382pixelma: yes
22:22:41nardulJust one more question, is there a key i can hold on a 5G ipod to stop it from reeboting into disk mode and just charge when i isnert a USB plug?
22:22:47jdongnardul: MENU
22:22:53jdongnardul: although there's catches
22:23:02narduljdong, Thanks and go on?
22:23:06jdongnardul: sometimes it'll randomly catch USB and reboot due to the host reprobing
22:23:12amiconnI knew how to do it in vbscript, but not in perl... some people may find that odd ;)
22:23:15DefineBytehold menu i think
22:23:18jdongnardul: and also it cannot pull the full 500mA current and will charge horribly slowly
22:23:39DefineBytei'm very slow
22:23:40n1sxDragonforce16x: how old is your bootloader
22:23:54narduljdong, It's okay, it'd mostly just be for lying around
22:23:57nardulThanks alot!
22:23:57xDragonforce16xhmmm, im not sure, ould that cause a problem?
22:24:11narduljdong, And the reprobing sounds more like a windows problem
22:24:18linuxstbjdong: Are you using a current build? The random reboot should have been fixed today.
22:24:19jdongnardul: nah all OS'es suffer from it
22:24:22n1sxDragonforce16x: when did you install it?
22:24:29jdonglinuxstb: I just noticed that commit...
22:24:31n1sand yes it could cause a problem
22:24:34narduljdong, okay, thanks. Night
22:24:34xDragonforce16xthe build, or the bootloader?
22:24:36 Quit nardul (Client Quit)
22:24:42n1sthe bootloader
22:24:52n1swell and the build if you use a current one?
22:24:55jdonglinuxstb: I'm compiling myself and just reversing the logic on the button :)
22:24:58jdonglol
22:25:09pixelmaI can't find them on the page that page in my browser, even though I refreshed the page a few times (refreshing the cache) and even try in a different browser...
22:25:10xDragonforce16xim not sure, but just to be safe im gonna go reinstall the current one, whether it actually be new or not, idont know
22:25:22xDragonforce16xim using the current build, yes
22:25:44n1sxDragonforce16x: do this, install a daily build from today and test again
22:26:06xDragonforce16xok
22:26:34n1sor rather from yesterday, sorry
22:26:49n1summ sept 02
22:26:59*n1s should go to bed soon
22:28:15DefineByteah, found llorean's quote: "No, it won't work on the iPod without some work being done to the iPod wheel driver, as it doesn't provide the right information (if I understand correctly)."
22:28:28DefineByteis that accurate?
22:28:35chrisjs169OMFG
22:28:47DefineBytere wheel acceleration
22:28:56*chrisjs169 goes in to -community
22:28:59jdongI wouldn't doubt llorean :)
22:29:12DefineBytei'm predisposed
22:29:20amiconnThere are no voice files for download on the daily build page
22:30:00DefineBytethe voice file generation is done on a sperate computer right?
22:30:09n1sDefineByte: I remember jhMikeS saying that (he wrote the acceleration code) so it should be accurate
22:30:45DefineByteokay, thanks. :)
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22:31:31amiconnBagder?
22:31:47Bagderthe server was down at the time
22:32:08Bagderget yesterday's
22:32:10amiconnaha, hmm
22:32:13xDragonforce16xn1s: thanks for the help, im not sure what i did but it's working again
22:32:26DefineBytecould the page say that?
22:32:40Bagderin theory, yes
22:32:43n1sxDragonforce16x: there seems to be a bug with id3 handling in the current build
22:32:53xDragonforce16xn1s: all i did redownload and reinstall the bootloader and it seems to work... for now lol
22:33:03amiconnBagder: Then I wonder how trax382 found them today...
22:33:15xDragonforce16xn1s: oh ok
22:33:16n1sxDragonforce16x: aha, then you probably had a very old bootloader
22:33:24DefineBytei've noticed commits missing from the front page occasionally too
22:33:24n1sor some combination
22:33:38Bagderamiconn: "today" perhaps being early this morning euro time
22:33:54xDragonforce16xyeah i think my last bootloader was from around a year ago when i first discovered rockbox lol
22:34:09DefineBytea lot has changed snice then
22:34:11DefineByte:)
22:34:19amiconnAh, hmm, same time zone
22:34:52xDragonforce16xyeah, im so happy that i can play movies now, i was actually considering buying a video ipod, but then rockbox came out with the mpegplayer
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22:35:12n1sxDragonforce16x: then it was definetly it, there was a required bootloader update around half a year ago
22:35:51DefineBytei guess RBUtil will make keeping up to date a lot easier now
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22:36:05amiconnarrr
22:36:41amiconnrasher: correct_string() didn't work as intended... because some necessary parameters weren't passed
22:36:50*jdong still uses his iPod OF to play movies
22:37:00jdongIMO very few competitors come close
22:37:13jdongthough on my sansa mpegplayer is bliss
22:37:14DefineByteit's the best way at the moment
22:37:35DefineBytethe screen is too small for me though
22:37:40jdongthe #1 advantage for me is that the same files I have on my iPod are also good for desktop viewing
22:37:46jdong(640x480 H.264 looks fantastic)
22:38:53DefineBytepractically HD! ;)
22:38:56jdonghaha
22:39:05jdongat least close enough to DVD quality that one doesn't feel too bad :)
22:39:43DefineBytehey, I've watched movies on my mobile before (174x220 if i recall)
22:39:53jdonghaha
22:39:57jdongyeah it works :)
22:40:14jdongI have a cheap RockChip player that takes 220x176 xvid avi's
22:40:24jdongthat served me well for a year
22:40:33jdongheck its battery lasted over 6 hours watching video!
22:40:38DefineByteah 176, that's probably it
22:41:00DefineBytestill, rockbox is all about the music for me
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22:41:07jdongI agree
22:41:19jdongvideo playback is a wonderful bonus, but not why I choose rockbox.
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22:41:37jdongit's a plain blessing on my sansa, as the OF's video abilities totally suck
22:41:51xDragonforce16xok now its freezing again, i think it may have something to do with the themes? certain themes such as autobot glass
22:41:54jdongI hope to see the seeking/resume patch merged in svn soon
22:42:11xDragonforce16xand i have a question about the themes
22:42:39xDragonforce16xwhen i load a theme the only thing it ever does is change the colors, backdrops and fonts, and icons
22:42:58xDragonforce16xwhy is it that it doesnt change the now playing screen
22:43:09DefineByteis the sansa generally regarded as the best flash RB target at the moment?
22:44:15 Quit bluey- (No route to host)
22:44:35DefineBytedoes it theme file specifiy a WPS (view it in notepad or something)?
22:44:42n1sxDragonforce16x: because the themes you downloaded require patched builds to work correctly
22:44:50DefineByte-it + the
22:44:52BagderDefineByte: "best" in what terms?
22:45:18DefineBytebattery life I guess. :)
22:45:37DefineByteas long as it supports musepack^
22:45:49 Quit hcs ("Leaving.")
22:45:51 Quit trax382 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
22:45:52Bagderconsidering we basically only have two swcodec flash players, and I think the sansa beats the nano battery-wise... then yes
22:46:01xDragonforce16xwhere can i find these builds?
22:46:31DefineBytecan't wait for flash hdds to come down in price 8)
22:47:07DefineByteonly two? the iPod mini?
22:47:53n1sxDragonforce16x: in the unsupported builds forum, but beware they are _unsupported_ by us here
22:48:01 Quit homielowe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:48:13pixelmathe Ipod Mini is not flash-based
22:48:14 Quit BigBambi (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:48:46xDragonforce16xn1s: what are you saying? that by using these builds im putting myself at risk?
22:48:54DefineByteif something goes wrong with an unsupported build your first step is to install a daily build and see if the problem goes away
22:49:13DefineBytethat's it really
22:49:18xDragonforce16xoh
22:49:39xDragonforce16xdo the unsupported builds still have stuff like mpegplayer?
22:49:41krazykitDefineByte, IMO, the sansa also feels better in my hands than the nano. i don't feel like i'm gonna break it just by using it
22:49:44DefineByteand don't post bugs you have with an unsupported build outside of that nuild's thread
22:49:58DefineBytebuild's/
22:50:06linuxstbxDragonforce16x: Unsupported builds can contain anything - they're whatever the person making the build chooses to include.
22:50:10DefineBytereally? never held a nano I must admit
22:50:26xDragonforce16xok
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22:50:35linuxstbxDragonforce16x: Hence the reason they're unsupported - we've no idea what that person has changed...
22:50:45xDragonforce16xgotcha
22:51:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:52:58DefineBytewould a feature in RBUtil that copied info about the current installed build be useful (revision, supported or not)? that way you could tell a user on the forums to run said command paste it into the forum and go from there. might save some headaches.
22:56:32DefineByteokay, either the idea was too stunning to fully come to terms with or everyone thinks it's stupid (I guess). :D
22:56:55amiconnI would prefer the nano if I had to choose. The sansa is just too big for a flash player
22:57:05amiconnUnfortunately the nano doesn't have a radio
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22:57:26delYsidI love my sansa (got it today)
22:57:50DefineByteApple really hates adding features
22:58:00delYsidbut that might be related to the fact that its the first time I can actually use such a device without having to remember menu item counts and all that.
22:58:55oboDefineByte: the revision number is already included (and if it's appended by M it means it has come from a modified source tree)
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22:59:20DefineBytehow easy is that to copy and paste?
22:59:44DefineByteis it in a log file or something?
23:00
23:00:07pixelmathere already is rockbox-info.txt
23:01:42DefineByteforgot about that. that would be a good file to automatically ask for with any support requests
23:02:46 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com)
23:02:48DefineBytedoes it tell you the bootloader rev though? seems not. i guess some over method would still be needed
23:03:41 Quit desowin ("use linux")
23:04:50DefineByteso RBUtil creates a file with build and bootloader info?
23:05:00xDragonforce16xare there any themes that are supported and change the now playing screen that arent already in the build?
23:05:11DefineByteyes
23:05:14BagderxDragonforce16x: a bazillion
23:05:57pixelmaDefineByte: I _believe_ RBUtil currently already writes a log file of builds you install with it. Not sure though
23:06:45petursomebody today asked me if I/we would be interested in broken sony walkmans - no idea which types. Anybody know of attempts to port?
23:07:01DefineBytewouldn't that log file be a bit large to paste into the forum though (along with a lot of unneeded info)? might be good to have something nicely formatted just for that purpose
23:07:36Bagderpetur: I'm not aware of any attempts
23:07:43DefineBytesony walkmans? i don't think anyone uses cassettes any more. rdrr
23:07:54peturhahaha
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23:15:06DefineBytei'm basically seeing a user coming on the forum saying "boo, I just updated my build and now Rockbox won't start!" "can you run RBUtil /info and paste the results here please" "/pastes" "sorry sir but you're bootloader is over six months old. please run RBUtil and re-test" "thank you oh shining angel! all is working again!" it would be bliss.
23:20:12DefineByteI reffer you to my previous message as of 21:56. :'(
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23:21:14DefineByteum /refer
23:22:27DefineByteagain /your
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23:22:47 Part Redbreva ("User is away.")
23:22:49 Part jdong ("L 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40")
23:24:29 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
23:25:32Kaltharerockbox-20070904.tar.bz2 seems to be missing the apps/plugins/shortcuts/ directory.
23:26:21DefineByteplugin failed to compile?
23:27:16Kalthareplugin is missing entirely, but it's in the SUBDIRS file, so build fails.
23:27:38n1sKalthare: missing update of FILES probably, will fix
23:29:16linuxstbDefineByte: In that case, rbutil could tell the user the bootloader was out of date and offer to update it....
23:29:55DefineBytethat assumes the user would automatically agree to that. i'm not so sure
23:30:30Kaltharen1s: cool, just wanted to let you know. In the meantime, I'll get the missing files from svn.
23:31:17DefineBytemaybr you're right. i guess if it wasn't working at all they would probably update.
23:31:22DefineBytemaybe/
23:31:35linuxstbDefineByte: Or more likely, rbutil would refuse to install the new build until the bootloader was upgraded.
23:31:35n1sKalthare: fix comitted, but new tarball won't be built until the daily build time, whenever that is
23:31:46DefineBytestill, for more minor problems they might not
23:31:58linuxstbn1s: I thought there were "current" tarballs...
23:32:06Bagderthere are
23:32:17n1sah, you are right
23:32:26DefineBytei'm not only thinking of bootloader problems though and there will still be a way to update manually right?
23:32:34n1sare those new, or were they always there?
23:32:37DefineByteprobably well hidden i guess
23:33:15linuxstbDefineByte: Of course, but then rbutil wouldn't be able to display the info you wanted to paste into the forum thread...
23:33:16n1sDefineByte: but if they update manually, how should rbutil write the log file thingy?
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23:33:50DefineBytei was thiking of RBUtil reading the iPod while it's connected to get the info
23:34:03DefineBytethinking/
23:34:06rasherBagder: Why the need for the FILES stuff anyway? Can't you just tar up the entirey sourcetree?
23:34:11linuxstbDefineByte: In which case, rbutil could detect the installed bootloader...
23:34:34DefineByteright, don't get your point.
23:34:39Bagderrasher: because FILES makes it easier to produce a tarball in any case
23:34:51Bagderindependent of left-overs and cvs/svn files around etc
23:35:19rasherBagder: speaking of, there were some emacs leftovers in the tarball..
23:35:21linuxstbDefineByte: My point is that if rbutil can detect problems and write that info to a log file, it can also act on that info and prompt the user to fix the problem.
23:35:36DefineBytehow would it detect problems?
23:35:45n1sdoes the frontpage show any commits after Robert Kukla's id3.c commit for anyone else?
23:35:51linuxstbDefineByte: The same way a person reading the forum thread would...
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