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#rockbox log for 2007-09-07

00:05:21amiconnpreglow: , below the "Cache Controller" table
00:05:31 Quit freqmod (Remote closed the connection)
00:06:23preglowamiconn: nice
00:06:32preglowbut do we want to not remap ram?
00:06:57 Join sarixe [0] (
00:07:17amiconnDepends. For just having the vector table where it should be, both methods should be equal
00:08:01amiconnHowever, if we want to call ROM routines, remapping doesn't work (unless the called routines are relocatable)
00:08:18preglowwell, doesn't both bl and retailos remap?
00:08:51amiconnOF remaps, but iiuc it doesn't remap the whole ram
00:10:29 Quit obo ("bye")
00:10:46amiconnI think so because the OF references variables at 0x1xxxxxxx, which wouldn't be possible when all ram is remapped
00:11:06preglowi wish i knew how those remap regs worked
00:11:36amiconn(unless both ida and objdump err on that addresses)
00:11:50 Join BigMac [0] (
00:12:49amiconnI don't think we want to call ROM routines though. Doing so would probably cause gpl problems
00:13:10amiconnThe OF, however, does use rom routines, at least on 1st/2nd gen
00:13:59preglowgpl problems?`why?
00:14:22preglowthat's like gpl programs not being able to call the bios on pcs
00:14:49amiconnWell, perhaps not.
00:14:51preglowi don't think we want to call rom routines either, but not for gpl
00:15:08preglowthe less stuff we depend on, the better
00:15:22amiconnThe exception vector remapping might still be interesting. We could map the exception vectors to iram.
00:15:39preglowwould be cool having them at the start of iram
00:15:58amiconn(now if we knew whether PP5002 can do the same thing...)
00:18:56preglowno doubt where most of our users are, then...
00:19:01*preglow curses portalplayer
00:19:05Bagderindeed not
00:19:13preglowwe could be so much cooler with just a wee bit of help :/
00:19:26Bagder4 PP targets at the top...
00:20:02Bagderthose four is >60% of all downloads
00:20:19amiconnSomehow that sheds a light on those annoying album art requests
00:20:55amiconnipods: +style -functionality
00:22:49 Join linuxstb [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:23:43preglowwell, some people like stuff to look good
00:24:19davinann all
00:24:21 Quit ender` (" A man without religion is like a fish without a bike.")
00:24:25 Quit davina ("xchat on Ubuntu 7.04")
00:24:50amiconnpreglow: I have nothing against good looking stuff, if it provides good functionality as well
00:25:14bluebrotherwasn't the reason for those aa-requests obvious anyway?
00:25:18amiconnIn that respect, ipods are inferior to several other targets I own... even much older ones
00:28:26amiconnbluebrother: Not to me...
00:28:40 Join skillfulcodr [0] (i=4b866052@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:28:44Bagderseparating them on main architecture is interesting
00:28:52Bagder79.7% PP
00:29:05Bagder12.9% coldfire
00:29:43amiconnHence still 7.4% SH1
00:29:56Bagder4.3% samsung
00:30:00Bagder2.8% sh1
00:30:05amiconnForgot samsung
00:30:18*amiconn thought arm, not PP
00:30:19bluebrotherwhat's samsung? The gigabeat?
00:30:37bluebrotherok ...
00:30:51skillfulcodrHi everyone, Just got a sansa e280 and put rockbox on it. When I plug the sansa in to a usb port while running rockbox I don't get a drive in windows like i do while running the sansa firmware
00:30:52delYsidHmm, can I tell rockbox to shutdown after a certain period of time (sleep timer)?
00:31:10Bagderskillfulcodr: boot the original firmware (OF) for that
00:31:27skillfulcodrok, thanks, thought that might be the answer
00:31:33amiconnWith the recorder v1 the most downloaded SH1 target, above 1 POP and 2 coldfire targets
00:31:53bluebrotherdelYsid: yes.
00:32:11amiconn(the 1 PP isn't entirely fair as we don't provide a bootloader for it yet)
00:32:16bluebrothersystem / sleep timer
00:32:43Bagderkind of weird that 1g2g was downloaded 600 times...
00:32:59delYsidbluebrother: thanks.
00:33:45peturstill a lot of h300 users...
00:33:47 Quit hcs ("Leaving.")
00:33:56*bluebrother hugs h120
00:34:25*preglow joins in the hugging
00:34:29*BigBambi too
00:34:45linuxstbI would guess a lot of h300 users would use unofficial builds from MR though. (maybe H10 as well)
00:34:58Bagderthat goes for sansa users too
00:35:03BigBambiI know I haven't updated my H100 is ages though as it is already so stable
00:35:12bluebrotherand how about unsupported builds for the PP front?
00:35:18*amiconn also prefers his H180 (or even the recorder v1) over the ipods
00:35:39preglowi'd take my h120 over the nano any day
00:35:54BigBambiI prefer both the H140 and F60 I have over any iPod
00:36:06amiconnBagder: I was about to say that soeone interested in 1g/2g could build the bootloader himself, but then he'd probably also build rockbox itself...
00:36:15amiconnSo it's really rather strange
00:37:45 Part skillfulcodr
00:38:35pixelmathere were people showing interest in the forums but they didn't seem to be able to build the bootloader for themselves yet (didn't really bother to set up a build envionment if I read correctly)
00:39:05amiconnWeird. Lack of stability is still my biggest annoyance with rockbox on swcodec, although it looks like nls' latest talk commit improved things
00:39:42bluebrotherwell, do we want to work towards a 3.0 release for CF targets?
00:39:59pixelmaso they downloaded the build and got stuck when ipodpatcher or rbutil wasn't able to install the bootloader
00:40:03amiconnI'd rather want to know the status of MoB...
00:40:14Bagderbluebrother: only if they reach 13% ;-P
00:41:01amiconnBagder: Did you filter out multiple downloads from the same ip for the stats?
00:41:34amiconnAnd are these stats aggregated across all mirrors?
00:41:34*bluebrother goes setting up a cron job to regularly download all CF builds
00:41:37 Join Migit109 [0] (
00:41:42pixelmasome people change their IPs daily...
00:41:47Bagderamiconn: oh no, this is a raw counter from awstats
00:41:58BagderI bet many people have downloaded multiple times
00:42:15Migit109do .wav files play in rockbox or do i need to re-encode them
00:42:22bluebrotherthey play
00:42:27Bagderamiconn: read the page, this is the build server not the download one so there are no mirrors counted
00:42:40linuxstbBagder: So just the current builds?
00:43:15BagderI have no real stats for the download mirrors
00:43:34amiconnHmm, the dailies (including mirrors) would also be interesting
00:43:40Migit109oh my bad i ment .wma files, sorry
00:43:48 Quit miepchen^schlaf ("Verlassend")
00:43:48linuxstbMigit109: yes.
00:43:50bluebrotherwma works too.
00:44:04amiconn...unless they are drm protected
00:44:06 Join RudMan [0] (
00:44:10bluebrotheryou can't seek in the files though
00:44:18Migit109because i selected it and played it and it only does audio no video
00:44:31bluebrotherRockbox is an _audio_ player
00:44:54*bluebrother slaps forehead
00:44:55linuxstbYou mean wmv files then?
00:45:10Migit109ya , sorry im out of it today
00:45:22bluebrotherwma - windows media audio, wmv - windows media video
00:45:35Migit109ya wmv
00:45:47bluebrotherno. Only mpeg2 video is supported.
00:45:55linuxstbYou've answered your own question - Rockbox will play the audio only...
00:46:27Migit109what are mpeg(two) formats just .mpg?
00:49:19einhirnPlease tell me where the Simulator build of Archos Recoder implements track changes (where would I apply Replaygain settings?) I want to do some debugging in Simulator first, before I start on the real thing again ;)
00:50:14amiconnThe s
00:50:40amiconnThe hwcodec sims don't simulate playback. Just wps display + the ability to skip
00:51:49einhirnI just need some place to call my routines and update the Trackgain etc. values
00:52:07einhirnSo skipping is sufficient
00:52:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:52:39 Join Jdgordon [0] (
00:52:47*einhirn greps sources for skip
00:53:30amiconnI'd just do the work on target. Imho the sim isn't very useful for that kind of work
00:53:40*bluebrother leaves for weekend
00:54:01 Quit bluebrother ("bye, back in a few days")
00:55:30 Join Febs [0] (
00:57:42einhirnamiconn: Well, I see that to, but the Sim has one big advantage: I can see intermediate results via DEBUGF, so I can better debug the calculations I need on the target.
00:58:49peturhmmm did just go down?
01:00:17RudManyeah - it appears to be down
01:01:32linuxstbIf you can read this, cgi::irc is still alive...
01:01:54peturso is svn...
01:02:01pixelmaI have no problems accessing
01:02:02linuxstbSo is the website (for me)
01:02:56preglowworks just peachy
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01:03:08 Quit Robin0800 (Client Quit)
01:03:14amiconnDoesn't work here
01:03:17Jdgordoninternatoinal link down maybe?
01:03:21Jdgordondown here also
01:03:36*pixelma feels special ;)
01:03:36petursvn still works...
01:05:17amiconnThat's a different host
01:05:54*linuxstb still has no problems with the website.
01:05:58amiconnLooks like yet another occasion of routing problems to (at least from outside scandinavia)
01:06:18Migit109my rockbox just locked up how do i get it to reset?
01:06:22amiconnping yields 'TTL exceeded'
01:06:42linuxstb64 bytes from ( icmp_seq=1 ttl=47 time=44.2 ms
01:07:17linuxstbMigit109: You do whatever hardware reset your device has. What is your device?
01:07:20Migit109its an ipod 5.5 gen
01:07:26linuxstbamiconn: The output of ping (from London)
01:07:32Migit109holding play pause isnt workign
01:07:38amiconnyeah, sure
01:07:39eigmaReply from TTL expired in transit.
01:07:43eigmarouting loop somewhere?
01:07:43linuxstbMigit109: Hold MENU+SELECT for about 5 seconds.
01:07:45 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
01:07:58pregloweigma: weird...
01:08:03preglowyou don't see that too often
01:08:11pixelmathe latest build is down now (about 4 minutes overdue) and only 9 servers took part
01:08:14Migit109thanks linuxstb
01:08:16pregloweither something has been routed via the north pole, or there's a loop
01:08:24einhirntracert from germany says that Routing loop occurs between berlin and hamburg
01:08:25eigmapreglow: must be the North pole
01:08:28amiconnI get the same as eigma, and that's while pinging from windows (which sets a TTL of 128 instead of 64 on linux)
01:08:30RudManI get the same TTL message. and I'm in NY
01:08:39eigmaamiconn: I am also on Windows; XP SP2
01:08:56eigmaare the Right People being notified?
01:09:04preglowthe right people probably can't fix this
01:09:15preglowit seems more like one of the routes is having a problem
01:09:21chrisjs169From ( icmp_seq=5 Time to live exceeded
01:09:31linuxstbThe _right_ people can... Just not our right people.
01:09:37eigmayeah, I see ham->muc->fra loop
01:09:38preglowah, right
01:09:53amiconncogent seems to have a loop in their routing
01:09:55chrisjs169wow - except for IRC, everything else has a 5 minute lag
01:09:59amiconneigma: Same here.
01:10:23chrisjs16964 bytes from ( icmp_seq=1 ttl=43 time=174 ms
01:10:24eigmaecho "zomg routing loop" | mail
01:10:42chrisjs169(that's from another network though)
01:10:46eigmaoops, wrong window
01:11:05iambeni always have a 5 minute lag, hughesnet rocks
01:11:22preglowif some of their routers aren't bloody blinking red by now, they're talentless
01:11:42chrisjs169i thought the lag was from torrents, but i've throttled torrent to like 10 kbps up, and 50 down
01:12:17einhirn 28 107 ms 121 ms 200 ms []
01:12:17einhirn 29 100 ms 120 ms 202 ms []
01:12:17DBUGEnqueued KICK einhirn
01:12:17einhirnand so on and so forth...
01:13:18 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC")
01:13:18eigmafor reference:
01:13:20amiconnI get a fra03->ham01->muc01 loop
01:14:23einhirnHmm - maybe cogent is just trying to evade a broken link but cant succeed?
01:14:59Migit109how do i fix rockbox if it sounds all echoy
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01:22:51iambenMigit109: you're supposed to turn down the radio when you call in
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01:33:56einhirnWooo! Netsplit.
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01:54:10pixelmalinuxstb: I though the guy in the forum might be suffering from the routing problems too (he said he can download a different file, maybe from another mirror) but since that is more a guess
01:55:11linuxstbI think it's the mime-type problem - the download servers send "ipodpatcher" as text/plain so browsers try and display it.
01:55:28linuxstbI mean the mirrors send text/plain. Haxx's server is fine.
01:56:22pixelmadidn't know that there were differences
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02:25:34filipembhey can some body help me (i cannot enter in rockbox website, i dont know how but)? i had to disconnect my ipod (with rockbox) while it was making its database and now it doesn't want to do the database
02:25:48filipembwhat can i do in order to do the database and listen to my songs?
02:26:44 Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (
02:26:58LambdaCalculus37Ah yes, dear friends!
02:27:56LambdaCalculus37Greetings all around!
02:28:06filipembplease :(
02:28:22 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
02:29:53LambdaCalculus37Is something wrong with the web server? The connection keeps timing out.
02:30:50filipembhere too
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02:32:48eigmathere's currently a routing issue with that rockbox admins most likely can't solve
02:33:14eigmato wait is probably the best thing to do right now
02:34:00LambdaCalculus37eigma: Don't worry, I'll wait. I was just curious.
02:36:24eigmanot much *else* to do, I guess :P
02:36:48 Quit phalax ("Bye... Folding.")
02:37:07LambdaCalculus37eigma: Except discuss a few things here on the IRC channel.
02:37:20LambdaCalculus37Which brings me to my next subject.
02:37:39DWSRwhich is?
02:38:10LambdaCalculus37As I've probably said before, I'm not "programmer extraordinaire". I'm still learning how to code in C.
02:38:20LambdaCalculus37Hell, I haven't even done embedded systems programming before.
02:38:25 Quit filipemb ()
02:38:27LambdaCalculus37But I would like to learn.
02:39:03LambdaCalculus37I'm still trying to gain some information about my Dell Digital Jukebox and its inner workings, but I'm hitting a few snags.
02:39:51eigmaas per IrcGuidelines, perhaps this conversation is better continued in #rockbox-community?
02:40:06LambdaCalculus37eigma: No, this is development related.
02:40:15LambdaCalculus37I'm trying to gather information for a new port.
02:40:29LambdaCalculus37And I was here already, discussing this.
02:40:50 Quit tchan (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:41:06LambdaCalculus37jhulst: If you're around, give me a holler.
02:45:30jhulstLambdaCalculus37: holler
02:46:40eigmaoooh, yet another TMS320-based player
02:46:55einhirnamiconn: I hacked dirty a bit, but I think I stumbled upon something - at least I think that 3,162277660168 decimal should be about 0x3298 in 12.24 Bit Fixed Point, but it comes through as 0x3298000
02:47:22einhirnAnyway: Me tired now, going to sleep.
02:47:42 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
02:48:12LambdaCalculus37eigma: Yeah, except this one has a TMS320 derivative CPU that wants programmers to sign a wacking big NDA to get any kind of datasheets for.
02:48:26LambdaCalculus37I speak of the TMS320DA25x line.
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02:49:21jhulstLambdaCalculus37: I'm around
02:49:36LambdaCalculus37jhulst: I was wondering... since we both have Creative devices in our hands that use the MTP protocol to communicate with the PC, how did you read the filesystem on your device?
02:49:50CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
02:49:50*LambdaCalculus37 might know what the answer is
02:50:14*jhulst is sorry to tell LambdaCalculus37 the answer
02:50:35jhulstSomeone bought a hard drive adapter and tore it apart
02:51:10LambdaCalculus37jhulst: Looks like I may have to do the same thing.
02:51:20LambdaCalculus37Know anywhere where I can get get one for a good price?
02:51:45jhulstLambdaCalculus37: What kind of a hard drive? There are two different kinds in the ZVM, both with different connectors
02:51:50LloreanAny device with software USB (UMS or MTP) can pretty much arbitrarily prevent PC-side access to any part of the disk it wants.
02:51:59eigma"Newer libgphoto2 versions also support Media Transfer Protocol (MTP) based media player ..." []
02:52:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:52:22jhulsteigma: That just allows transfers of songs, not seeing the filesystem
02:52:40eigmaah, I understand
02:52:42jhulsteigma: Basically you only see what they want you to see
02:52:46LambdaCalculus37jhulst: The one in the Dell DJ is a 44-pin connector.
02:52:53*courtc sees that his documentation might actually be useful... yay!
02:53:45*eigma wonders if there's some backdoor to the software MTP implementation that allows "raw-er" access.
02:53:54eigmahas anybody dumped and started reversing the firmware?
02:54:01LambdaCalculus37eigma: On the Dell DJ?
02:54:09*jhulst spent lots of time trying to find a backdoor
02:54:10eigmaor perhaps a second config in the USB descriptors
02:54:22LambdaCalculus37I did post a firmware upgrade for the Dell DJ on the wiki page for it.
02:54:35LambdaCalculus37And the results of lsusb -v.
02:54:37jhulstLambdaCalculus37: So it's an IDE drive?
02:54:50LambdaCalculus37jhulst: All signs point to "yes".
02:55:06eigmaLC37: sorry, can you point me to that wiki page/
02:55:18LambdaCalculus37eigma: Not while the site's still down.
02:55:32eigmathere's Google Cache and
02:55:42LambdaCalculus37eigma: D'OH! Forgot!
02:55:43eigmaI found the forum post; indeed, "bNumConfigurations 1" :(
02:57:05*LambdaCalculus37 needs to use the little hacker's room
02:57:22LambdaCalculus37I'll be back
02:57:28*LambdaCalculus37 will be back
02:57:34jhulstLambdaCalculus37: The IDE adapter we were thinking about getting was this one,, I believe we went with the ZIF one though
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03:00:17*LambdaCalculus37 came back, and yes, he washed his hands!
03:00:33eigmadude, do you really have to go into details?
03:00:48LambdaCalculus37eigma: :P
03:00:59LambdaCalculus37jhulst: Let me see that adapter.
03:01:41LambdaCalculus37Ahhh, not bad!
03:01:44jhulstLambdaCalculus37: It's says it's 40 pin though
03:02:03jhulstI think it depends on who the manufacturer of the drive is as well
03:03:18LambdaCalculus37jhulst: Hitachi TravelStar.
03:03:31LambdaCalculus37Horizontally aligned.
03:04:02LambdaCalculus37Model HTC424015F7AT00.
03:04:23LambdaCalculus37This one is a loose drive I got from another Dell DJ owner I know.
03:05:42jhulstLambdaCalculus37: In the ZVM, we had two different types of hard drives, someone ordered the wrong adapter assuming his was like everyone else's and now he's stuck
03:06:07LambdaCalculus37jhulst: I read about that. Creative used both 50-pin and ZIF drives, right?
03:08:32jhulstLambdaCalculus37: correct
03:10:38LambdaCalculus37jhulst: I have to wait for another check, but I'll most definitely buy one of these adapters and see if I can read at least the spare hard drive.
03:12:38LambdaCalculus37Actually, I'll just get that set with the 1.8" and 2.5" adapters. :)
03:14:51jhulstLambdaCalculus37: Just as a disclaimer, I know nothing about that company, just was one we found that was reasonably priced
03:17:00LambdaCalculus37jhulst: I can look up some information about them.
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03:19:05homieloweWould someone kick back to life
03:20:03RudManit's a routing issue with cogent
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03:26:39LambdaCalculus37homielowe: It may be a while before it comes back.
03:27:14homieloweLambdaCalculus37: I can wait
03:29:04LambdaCalculus37jhulst: Any other useful tools for Linux that can read some more info off the Dell DJ, at the very least?
03:29:54LambdaCalculus37I've heard of lsdev, but I've yet to get the package for it.
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03:32:29sdotDoes anyone here happen to know a location for thumb-interwork-4.0.3.diff?
03:32:54jhulstLambdaCalculus37: what sort of information, have you looked at the mtp protocol stuff?
03:32:58sdot(arm-gcc patch diff?)
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03:33:44jhulstsdot: if you need something from the site, I can grab it for you, I can get in
03:34:13sdotThank you!
03:34:21Davide-NYCAre the servers having trouble currently?
03:34:55*Davide-NYC can't connect. shivers in withdrawal
03:34:59eigmacogent routing problem
03:35:01eigmaperhaps it should go into the topic
03:35:43*LambdaCalculus37 keeps on refreshing until he gets bitten by the Fox
03:36:35LambdaCalculus37jhulst: I'm still reading about it.
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03:37:44LambdaCalculus37I've read about MTPFS.
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03:39:35LambdaCalculus37I'm thinking that may be my next step.
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03:40:02LambdaCalculus37What I really am trying to find out is the filesystem structure of the drive, and if anything of importance is stored on it.
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03:50:48LambdaCalculus37jhulst: I remember that you mentioned some files on the ZVM that seemed to be firmware related, correct?
03:54:24jhulstLambdaCalculus37: yes, but those were found through dissasembly of the updater and through the dump of the hard drive
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03:54:51jhulstLambdaCalculus37: As I stated earlier, I don't believe there is any way to see the firmware files through the MTP protocol
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03:55:27jhulstMTPFS is just a way of mapping what MTP says is on the player to a psuedo filesystem, there is no real access of the hard drive there
03:56:46jhulstLambdaCalculus37: The best mtp will give you is what you can find by running the mtp-* commands on a linux box
03:56:52jhulstnot a whole lot of info
03:58:22*LambdaCalculus37 asked for a challenge, and he got one, all right! :)
03:58:44LambdaCalculus37jhulst: Point taken.
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04:01:23*LambdaCalculus37 is taking notes of everything jhulst has said thus far
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04:02:30LambdaCalculus37jhulst: My best bet is to disassemble the updater for the Dell DJ and follow the same procedure you did.
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04:04:58HeNry2kOoanyone experiencing problems dual booting the OF.mi4 on an E200R?
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04:06:21JdGordon|workhey scorche
04:07:21scorchenot terribly
04:07:57JdGordon|workcan you grab the hidden partition from the e200r for me?
04:08:04JdGordon|work... info in the dev-ml...
04:08:58scorchewell, mine has been rockboxed....does that matter?
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04:11:05HeNry2kOohey scorche.. does your dual boot loader work fine on your E200R?
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04:12:28JdGordon|workscorche: bagder doesnt think so... and its still better than having the 0 available atm :p
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04:15:32scorchealright...i should be able to do that fine in vmware...
04:15:56scorcheunless it will wipe out my current bootloader?
04:16:12JdGordon|workno, it doesnt write to that partition at all, so its safe
04:16:26JdGordon|workyour on windows are you?
04:16:32scorcheatm, yes
04:16:51scorchebeen meaning to have a look at e200tool windows version, but have been busy
04:16:57JdGordon|workif you can try getting libusb-win32 going it would be good
04:17:16JdGordon|workim being kicked out of the good desk (the one with the net)... so back later
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04:19:41*LambdaCalculus37 is reading his notes and looking at some more information
04:22:12SoapLambdaCalculus37: all the actions (/me) away and back notifications, and *BAMF*s grow quite tiresome.
04:22:38*scorche BAMFs Soap
04:22:39SoapMight as well be using coloured text and highlighting.
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04:29:57LambdaCalculus37Soap: Sorry. I'll ease up.
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04:31:31Nimdaeso it looks like the new ipod classic uses new hardware
04:31:50Nimdaebecause i seriously doubt the 5g is capable of playing back hi def
04:32:16Nimdaeor has component video
04:32:59Nimdaeoh well, saves me money...if it doesn't run rockbox, i'll pass ;) maybe i'll just try to grab a hard drive and stick it in my 5g
04:33:30LambdaCalculus37Nimdae: the iPod video can play MPEG4 video up to 2.5 Mbit/S, and H.264 up to 1.5 Mbit/S.
04:33:51LambdaCalculus37I don't think it can use component, either.
04:34:02LambdaCalculus37Besides that I just have S-video for it.
04:34:46Nimdae5g does svideo, new ipods use component, i dunno the max resolution the 5g will handle, but the 6g can do 480p
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04:35:54Nimdaebut seriously, it sounds like the 80gb drive is available in the slim form factor of the 30 gb drive, so i'll try to find one of those and a new front bezel, possibly battery, and run with that
04:36:30Nimdaeneed new front bezel because mine is cracked, heh
04:36:56Nimdaei have a rhinoskin case holding my ipod together
04:37:08LambdaCalculus37Nimade: Try these guys for new parts:
04:37:18Chrononamiconn: I hear you are interested in an iPod Nano that suffers from buggy playback.
04:37:32Nimdaei checked them about a week ago, but given recent news, things might have changed
04:37:47Soap5G can do 480p
04:38:08SoapSVCD is 480p is it not?
04:38:09Nimdaethe ipod touch is reported to only do 480i
04:38:15Soapnot much of a measure. ;)
04:38:40LambdaCalculus37Soap: SVCD... Super VCD, right?
04:39:12LambdaCalculus37Soap: SVCD can do 480x480 in NTSC and 480x756 in PAL/SECAM.
04:39:34Soapno to your PAL y
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04:40:00LambdaCalculus37Soap: Oops... 480x576.
04:40:25Nimdaeyeah, ifixit still only has the thicker drives outside of the 30gb drive
04:40:40LambdaCalculus37Soap: I'm under the weather, tired, drinking coffee that I can still see through... and still trying to research a Dell DJ.
04:41:17LambdaCalculus37Soap: And I should be sleeping. But I'm too crazy to. :)
04:43:31ChrononI have a Nano that suffers from buggy playback. Llorean suggested on the forums that a developer might be interested in taking a look at it.
04:44:23ChrononIf anyone is interested they can leave me a PM on the forums.
04:44:40NimdaeChronon: might get better luck posting this info on the forum
04:45:12ChrononHeh. Llorean suggested I come here and talk about it.
04:45:16LambdaCalculus37Soap: Looks like SVCD can also display up to 704x480 in NTSC and 704x576 in PAL.
04:45:57LambdaCalculus37Nimdae: The site's still out.
04:46:33Nimdaewell, considering the new ipods are being marketed with the capability, i'm suspecting new hardware
04:46:53Nimdaei'm curious how scratch resistant the new all metal cover is
04:48:04LambdaCalculus37Nimdae: Probably at the same level as the mini and nano 2G.
04:48:24Nimdaei've never owned one so i've never had interested in finding out
04:48:29Nimdaeguess i could go read, heh
04:48:38LambdaCalculus37I'm going to save some money and pick up one... then tear it open and start drawing schematics when I get home. :)
04:49:21Nimdaei wouldn't mind picking up a 8gb nano if rockbox ran on it
04:49:39Nimdaei'm not a big fan of the ipod interface tbh
04:50:07LambdaCalculus37Nimdae: I feel bad that my brother's stuck with a nano 2G.
04:50:19LambdaCalculus37Maybe I should buy him a Sansa e280 for Xmas.
04:50:43Nimdaewell, i showed my housemate rockbox and that's made him want an ipod, but he wants a nano 2g
04:51:07LambdaCalculus37I showed several co-workers what Rockbox can do.
04:51:18LambdaCalculus37I ended up assisting with now ten installations.
04:51:31Nimdaehe's a technical person so i'd make him rtf
04:51:40Nimdaeread the fine manual
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04:51:59Nimdaeapple's store is so slow right now
04:52:01LambdaCalculus37Read The Featured Manual.
04:52:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:52:20LambdaCalculus37Anyway, eight of the installations I did were iPod videos.
04:52:45LambdaCalculus37Looks like we really do have a large population of Rockboxers with iPods.
04:53:02LambdaCalculus37But how many of them are actually developers, or have any programming experience?
04:53:14Nimdaei have programming experience, but not with C
04:53:23Nimdaemostly scripting, and some java
04:53:26SoapThe world has a large population of iPod owners. It isn't a suprise.
04:53:31LambdaCalculus37I have some C knowledge.
04:53:38Nimdaei've hacked C
04:53:43Nimdaebut i'd never trust my C coding
04:53:45LambdaCalculus37Soap: It's that advertising.
04:54:04Nimdaeyup, all in the advertising, and apple is good at it
04:54:09LambdaCalculus37Yet I only have one because it was a Xmas gift.
04:54:09SoapMust be. People are sheep who only buy what they are told to buy.
04:54:26LambdaCalculus37Soap: And when to bleat, it seems. :/
04:54:34Nimdaei got mine for half price from a co-worker who was upgrading to the then new 80gb ipod
04:54:53LambdaCalculus37Nimdae: You know what I wanted? The iAUDIO X5!
04:55:03Nimdaeoh yeah, i was saving up for one
04:55:07LambdaCalculus37Or an iriver H340!
04:55:16Nimdaei specifically wanted the x5
04:55:19LambdaCalculus37Now THAT'S a real man's DAP! :)
04:55:20Nimdaebecause it supports ogg
04:55:43LambdaCalculus37But with Rockbox, we have pretty much every file format we want/need.
04:56:07LambdaCalculus37Well, except for tracker formats, but we have a patch for that in Flyspray. :)
04:56:20Nimdaei just wish rockbox could do java, it'd drive me to learn java ME
04:57:09*jhMikeS thinks all this is funny because when informed that his sister wanted to get him an iPod for Xmas, the response was "Hooooold it! Better let me look for something better." First DAP: x5
04:57:24LambdaCalculus37Nimdae: Forget Java. How about Perl? Search for music using regular expressions! :D
04:57:39Nimdaeyou can't do that already?
04:57:45Nimdaei thought there was a way with the db
05:00:08Nimdaeyou know, witht he new metal faces, i'd like to have one in a nice cobalt color
05:00:23Nimdaeor perhaps navy
05:00:27*scorche hears the offtopic alarm
05:00:37*Soap points to the topic and the clearly defined roles assigned to the two channels
05:03:50Nimdaei'd idled here so long, i lost track of the topic and didn't think to check for other channels
05:03:53Nimdaebad me, bad
05:04:20LambdaCalculus37Ohh, I've been a baaad boy... :(
05:04:36scorchetalking about how bad you are is offtopic too...
05:05:15LambdaCalculus37I'm heading off for a while, then. It's late, and I want to finish my research before bed.
05:05:23LambdaCalculus37Good night, all.
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05:05:30*scorche sighs
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05:21:33LloreanChronon: I suggested coming here mostly because I know a lot of the people who are more likely to be interested don't read the forums that often. But of course you have to catch them when they're here. =/
05:22:38Chrononok. Are there particular times that I should check in?
05:23:47LloreanNot wholly sure.
05:24:02LloreanKinda depends on who'll pick up interest, if anyone right now, since people are both scattered and varying amounts of busy
05:24:17*Soap is very curious what Llorean and Chronon are talking about.
05:24:22LloreanAnother option is the rockbox-dev mailing list, I suppose.
05:24:31scorchegiving someone a nano withy the bug
05:24:41*Llorean hopes Amiconn's interested.
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05:25:56Chrononok. Maybe I'll look into the mailing list since I don't have an abundance of time to hang out in here.
05:29:11*Soap has a nano with the bug as well
05:31:02LloreanWell now we just need one of the more hardware inclined guys to say "I'll look into it if I have one in-hand".
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05:39:28ChrononActually, I just got 'teh nets' at my home. So I can probably come in for a couple of hours on most nights to try to connect with a developer regarding the buggy Nano.
05:46:35EnterUserNameHi, what does it mean about USB stack
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05:46:38EnterUserNamein the commits
05:47:01EnterUserNamedoes it mean transferrin files over?
05:48:16scorchenot yet
05:48:54EnterUserNameoh ok
05:49:03EnterUserNamejust wondered if it was worth putting new version oin there
06:00:33EnterUserNameinteresting they have a 3rd generation nano now
06:01:30EnterUserNamei see the new nano
06:01:33EnterUserNamehas anyone else??
06:02:39scorchewell, they are offtopic unless you are talking about information relevant to a rockbox port
06:02:52EnterUserNameoh sorry
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06:08:15NimdaeEnterUserName: yes, there are new ipods, no there is no information on the hardware so no one knows if rockbox can be ported to it...i speculate new hardware
06:09:03ChrononNimdae: don't worry, he brought it up in #rockbox-community
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06:29:40theBishophi, is there a channel for Archos 605?
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07:03:51Jdgordonhey all
07:04:09advcomp2019hello Jdgordon
07:04:31Jdgordonsoz :p
07:04:47Jdgordonscorche: howd you go?
07:05:08advcomp2019you want a real r or not
07:06:08Jdgordonyou on linux?
07:06:34 Quit ptw419 ()
07:06:37advcomp2019not right now but i could boot it up
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07:10:08advcomp2019what does it do fully
07:12:08Jdgordondumps the hidden parttion to the data partition...
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07:20:41advcomp2019ok i will need to find one of my live cds Jdgordon and do it from my other computer
07:22:42Jdgordonjust make sure you have libusb-dev installed or you wont be able to compile e200tool...
07:23:08Jdgordonalso, I tihnk i forgot to meniton your supposed to use e200tool (that linked to the message) when the sansa is in manfucaturer mode
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07:28:42Guest5231hey guys.. i'm having problems getting the original firmware to dual boot on my e200r
07:31:45advcomp2019did you follow the steps right
07:33:25Guest5231yeah rockbox works fine, however, the bootloader won't boot the OF.mi4 stored in 'system'
07:35:16Guest5231the OF.mi4 firmware was the same one obtained from the links in the steps
07:36:23JdgordonOF.bin? doesnt e200r use sansapatcjher to install?
07:37:13Guest5231i used e200tool according to the steps
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08:02:33Guest5231here's a pic of the bootloader screen...
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08:02:56Guest5231after that it the screen would just fade from white and then back to black
08:03:04Guest5231*fade to white
08:03:56*Jdgordon slaps scorche... think of how easy we would have it if we didnt officially say the e200r worked yet....
08:04:42advcomp2019Jdgordon, i am booting into linux
08:05:14scorcheadvcomp2019: no need...i forgot to mention i already did it =)
08:05:26advcomp2019o ok
08:06:03scorcheJdgordon: rockbox isnt one to hold things back, long as warnings are in place and there is a relatively safe method of installing
08:08:31amiconnYeah, we're not ipl
08:09:07amiconnMaybe we should just release a 1st/2nd gen bootloader, even with the shutdown issue still unsolved?
08:09:21scorchewhat is the issue?
08:09:27amiconnI mean, rockbox is safe to use on those, just it can't be shut down (same as ipl)
08:09:54Guest5231so i'm assuming i probably did something wrong between the steps?
08:10:14amiconnI know how to do suspend, but it requires work on the powermgmt code to implement per-thead shutdown handling with synchronisation (much like usb is handled)
08:10:29scorcheGuest5231: i did the exact same thing, and it loaded successfully
08:10:53scorcheGuest5231: it fades to white, then loads the OF, for me
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08:11:33scorcheamiconn: so how does one shutdown?...reboot into the OF?
08:11:33Guest5231however, my bootloader screen does look normal?
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08:11:43scorcheGuest5231: that is what mine says
08:11:57Guest5231that's odd
08:12:49amiconnscorche: Yes. Atm the poweroff button mapping does just reboot, so you hold Play to reboot, and when it starts booting, hold Menu until it says 'Loading original firmware'
08:12:58scorcheGuest5231: yes...mine says that exactly
08:13:31Guest5231thanks for looking into it scorche
08:13:37amiconnIf you want to get back into rockbox, you need to reset of course (Menu+Play on 1st..3rd gen)
08:13:51rocke1anyone familiar with getting the simulator working on a linux distro
08:13:53Guest5231guess the problem lies elsewhere
08:14:37scorcheJdgordon: you get my link?
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08:18:16rocke1how about getting sdl installed?
08:19:33*scorche kicks Jdgordon
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08:52:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:06:48peturheh.. /me caused an all green build by pure luck :)
09:07:23B4gderonly 9 servers...
09:07:36peturyes, some link went down right after the commit
09:07:39B4gderthere was some network problems tonight, that's for sure
09:07:42linuxstb_amiconn: rbutilqt should (if the rbutil.ini file is correct) already be able to install on the 1g/2g, so to release for that target, you just need to give one of the Swedes the bootloader-ipod1g2g.ipod file to put on the download server.
09:07:47advcomp2019hello B4gder
09:08:13linuxstb_amiconn: I'll then release a new ipodpatcher - but probably not until tomorrow at the earliest.
09:08:41linuxstb_amiconn: And it's no problem to update ipodpatcher again in the future if the bootloader needs changing for suspend.
09:09:47linuxstb_Are people still struggling to access (it's still fine from London)
09:10:29peturfine from here
09:11:02scorchegah...too much on-topic talk in #rockbox-community
09:11:47linuxstb_You mean off-topic (for that channel) ?
09:12:11scorcheon-topic in relation to this channel?
09:12:31B4gdernow you're off-topic!
09:12:44*linuxstb_ senses a pointless argument brewing far too early in the morning
09:13:02*scorche hands linuxstb_ some coffee
09:13:07*linuxstb_ wonders if petur is triggered on the word brewing
09:13:22linuxstb_scorche: Don't worry, I have a cup and a pot next to me...
09:13:45peturno, just some nicks, some topics and the word 'beer' :)
09:14:01LloreanDid somebody say pointless argument?
09:14:03*Llorean looks around
09:14:22 Quit kubiixaka (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:14:36linuxstb_Llorean: No
09:14:43LloreanI'm kidding.
09:14:47B4gderfeel free to blame me if you need a scape goat!
09:14:54scorchesee?!?!?: <Llorean> Since they're not quite mutually exclusive, but short-long makes the latter harder since you have to do short-wait-long
09:15:01linuxstb_Llorean: So am I (that was a monty python refererence)...
09:15:06amiconnlinuxstb: The bootloader doesn't need changing for suspend.
09:15:15Lloreanlinuxstb_: Now I feel bad that I missed it.
09:15:27amiconnBut maybe it makes sense to release a new set of bootloaders, as there are changes for several targets
09:15:30LloreanSpeaking of bootloaders, are we releasing a new Sansa one since the screen glitch fix needs it?
09:15:31linuxstb_amiconn: So your only worry is that the inconvenience of no sleep?
09:15:41linuxstb_I mean suspend.
09:15:43amiconnAt least the button combo messages are fixed for 3rd gen as well
09:16:20linuxstb_amiconn: So the 3g needs updating as well?
09:16:31Lloreanamiconn: Maybe we should work toward new bootloaders all around for the RButil release.
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09:16:52LloreanAt least the Sansa, H100 and H300 have bootloader changes waiting in the wings too, and the latter two need some testing by those as can recover.
09:16:55linuxstb_Llorean: No need to wait for that IMO - just release as we can.
09:17:08amiconnlinuxstb: As, although it's not essential, just cosmetic
09:17:25Lloreanlinuxstb_: I didn't mean to wait for it, just try to get new versions for the H100, H300 and whatever else out there before it's out.
09:17:42linuxstb_Llorean: OK, then I agree. new h100/h300 bootloaders seem to be long overdue.
09:18:22amiconnThe bootloader prints the button combos for reset+diskmode, which are wrong for 3rd gen in the released bootloader
09:18:25LloreanThe H300 one fixes the USB issue, right? And the H100 one allows us to upgrade the bootloader more safely in the future (no dependence on the OF, and recovery from bad flashes, iiuc?)
09:18:25Jdgordoncheers scorche, grabbing now
09:18:34amiconn(prints them if it can't load rockbox)
09:18:43scorcheJdgordon: bout time...anything else?
09:18:48linuxstb_amiconn: Yes, I know what message you mean.
09:18:55peturthe new h300 one fails to boot my h380 around 50% of the time
09:19:24Jdgordonscorche: been busy :p no thanks.. ill prob be back tommorow night with more requests (unless i can convice my friends not to go watch the rugby)
09:19:30Lloreanpetur: Hence the "work toward" rather than simply "release" ;)
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09:26:36linuxstb_Can anyone explain the swi instruction on ARM to me? Looking at the ipod bootloader, there are various "swi 0x00123456" commands. The swi handler just does "mov r0,#0; movs pc,lr".
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09:31:02B4gderdoes anyone know where something links to something?
09:31:15B4gderthere seems to be many "rev" download attempts
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09:32:03LinusNlinuxstb: looks like a transition to supervisor mode
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09:32:22B4gderZagor: if you have time to play around, there's now an updated recentwiki.html in the rockbox web site root dir with the 10 most recent wiki edits, possibly for inclusion on the front page if we can fit it in
09:33:13ZagorI've been thinking we should cut down the tables on the front page to be more sparse, and rather link to the more verbose versions on separate pages
09:33:48B4gderbut it is also nice with one page with "most recent actions" from multiple sources
09:33:54B4gdernot necessarily on the front page
09:33:59Zagoryes, we can have such a page too
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09:34:21Zagormaybe they'd all link to that page. but the front page needs to be less cluttered imho
09:34:43B4gderyeah, it should be neater and cleaner
09:34:48Zagori'll play around some and see what I can come up with
09:34:56ZagorZagor the design ninja ... not :)
09:35:28linuxstb_LinusN: Ah, OK... I guess I should download an ARM reference and read it...
09:35:40LinusNlinuxstb: the swi is a software interrupt
09:35:58LinusNand interrupts are handled in supervisor mode
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09:38:00linuxstb_I understand that, but it's the details I don't know. For example, where does the value of LR come from that the handler is branching to?
09:41:16Aveanyone know what "teac mp-370" is based on?
09:41:54Avelooks like viable rb target
09:42:09in-janeis there anyone running rockbox on Sansa e260?
09:42:15Avecheap as hell, 4gig model 80 euros
09:42:21preglowamiconn: you seen someone on the ml is offering to send a nano to a dev?
09:42:22B4gderin-jane: yes, many
09:42:27linuxstb_Ave: Are there any firmware updates available? Looking at those could give a clue to the CPU.
09:42:32B4gderAve: rip it open and check it out! ;-)
09:43:07in-janei thought so, haha
09:43:33Ave1 gig goes for 45 eur
09:43:37Avethats almost disposable..
09:43:48in-janei was just wondering how well rockbox works on e260
09:43:54B4gderAve: well, the c200 is in the same range
09:43:58linuxstb_Ave: A Rockbox port is a _lot_ of work - it doesn't seem that much cheaper than the Sansas.
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09:44:08LloreanB4gder: Here in the US, I've seen 2gig c200s for $60
09:44:10B4gderin-jane: it runs just fine!
09:44:15LinusNlinuxstb_: hmm, an swi handler is supposed to return by moving LR to PC
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09:44:31LloreanOne direly tempts me for situations where I'm just certain something bad might happen to my player.
09:44:35LinusNso what you are looking at is an empty SWI handler, that returns 0
09:44:43in-janeB4gder: good to know, then i 'll try it on my e260 when i receive it!
09:45:04B4gderin-jane: otherwise we'll have to send the hit team your way
09:45:23B4gderthat'll be LinusN
09:45:31*LinusN locks and loads
09:46:19in-janedid i understood correctly: i need to boot original firmware(?) to add songs to my e260?
09:46:27linuxstb_For now, yes.
09:46:27*B4gder made an effort and got some download stats
09:46:27in-janeeh, understand
09:46:29Aveer c200 is what, sansa?
09:46:34B4gderAve: yes, sansa c200
09:46:50Avebut I dont like the wheel on it, other than that, it'd be sweet
09:47:05B4gderthere's a wheel on the c200?
09:47:19LloreanThere's no wheel on the c200, I think he's thinking the e200
09:47:26linuxstb_B4gder: That reminds me, do you think there is a chance of the admins of the download mirrors to configure their httpd to not send text/plain for the ipodpatcher/sansapatcher executables (and maybe other things)?
09:47:45Aveoh yeah sorry
09:47:48in-janeis the battery life longer or shorter with RockBox on e260? I'm sorry if these questions have been asked thousands of times before
09:48:01B4gderlinuxstb_: sure I can ask them, you know if that goes for all the servers or any specific one?
09:48:10B4gdernot that its very easy to tell the difference...
09:48:21linuxstb_I _think_ it's all mirrors. As you say, it's hard to tell..
09:48:29Ave 0 Stored 0 0% 05-23-07 11:45 00000000 Firmware/
09:48:30Ave 5407906 Defl:N 5380505 1% 05-23-07 11:45 10b43236 Firmware/Sigmatel MSCN Audio Player
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09:48:54B4gderno, sigmatel
09:49:00Aveor just generic sigmatel mp3-decoder chip
09:49:07Aveand wma too..
09:49:25Lloreanin-jane: Shorter on the e200 series.
09:49:25linuxstb_Sigmatel have various things IIUC - both DSPs and ARM-based CPUs.
09:49:37linuxstb_So it could be either...
09:49:54Lloreanin-jane: Tests show anywhere from 10 to 15 hours depending on your use patterns.
09:49:55Aveoh well, I'll stick with my nano until it borks and then what
09:49:56linuxstb_Although as it has a large colour LCD, I would guess ARM.
09:50:26Aveyeah the most simple mp3-only players usually have simple 1-bit lcd
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09:50:45Aveand exactly the same menu structure and settings, only graphics change
09:51:50B4gderanyway, it turns people hardly download daily builds
09:51:53B4gderturns out
09:51:58Aveapple puts up some competition to rockbox with the new iphone-ape-pod
09:52:06B4gderwe deliver more than twice as many from the site
09:52:23linuxstb_"iphone-ape-pod" ?
09:52:42Avethey just published an iphone-like-ipod the UI is touch based
09:52:43LloreanB4gder: Well we have been trying to discourage dailies, for the most part.
09:52:54B4gderyes, it seems it basically works
09:52:58linuxstb_Ave: Yes, the touch.
09:53:06B4gderI have download counters from one of the three download servers
09:53:14Avegood luck getting rb there :P
09:53:24B4gdermultiplied with 3, ipod video was downloaded 7200 times in august 2007
09:53:30LloreanThe iPod Touch isn't really a prospective Rockbox target.
09:53:35LloreanFor all practical purposes, it's a PDA
09:53:37B4gder7257 ipodvideo (19.9%)
09:53:37B4gder4611 ipodnano (12.6%)
09:53:37B4gder3405 sansae200 (9.3%)
09:53:37DBUGEnqueued KICK B4gder
09:53:37B4gder2937 iaudiox5 (8.0%)
09:54:02B4gderslightly different shares compared to the current build downloads
09:54:23B4gderx5 being 8% of the dailes while only 3.8% of the current builds
09:54:41B4gderand I like this:
09:54:46B4gder96 fmrecorder8mb (0.3%)
09:54:57B4gderthe only one we don't provide as a current build
09:55:16linuxstb_I was surprised by the number of 8MB downloads - larger than some of the unmodified targets.
09:56:07scorchei was too
09:56:09LloreanB4gder: I'd hazard that it's because a larger portion of the x5 population only frequents iAudiophile and has simply been linked to the daily page from there
09:56:22B4gdersounds likely, yes
09:56:54LloreanWell, I'd guess that 8mb users are more likely to be on the bleeding edge, while users of any unmodified target may rarely update (or at least update less).
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10:00:40CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
10:00:40*B4gder brought the bold font
10:02:31LloreanB4gder: Any chance of removing the "They contain all the latest features" line on the Daily Builds page?
10:02:34 Join Buschel [0] (
10:02:56LloreanOr at least modifying it to "They contain the latest features as of (whatever time they're built)"?
10:03:17linuxstbI thought they had been renamed to something like "archived builds" in the past/
10:03:35LloreanThe link to them is "Archived Daily Builds"
10:03:46linuxstbNot from here -
10:03:49LloreanBut if someone direct-links to the page, there's nothing to give the impression they're older than anything else.
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10:04:01linuxstbAnd the page itself doesn't mention "Archived"
10:04:07LloreanOkay, the link *used* to be "Archived Daily Builds"
10:04:28LloreanBut I think it's the use of the word "latest" that really confuses things, as it suggests that "Although these are daily, they're the most up to date we offer"
10:04:50 Join todkon [0] (
10:05:14todkonIs there a way for the Database to remove what you removed physically from your file system?
10:05:24linuxstbI think the fact that the manuals and voices are only available on that page confuses things. i.e. we're telling people to go there for manuals and voices, but to ignore the actual builds and use current instead.
10:05:29todkonbecause it thinks there's files on my system that aren't really there
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10:06:53woodensoulHey guys. I'm getting very short battery life on my brand new Sansa e280. Even with the OF I only got 8 to 9 hours of plaback with no skipping of songs, etc. Any thoughts?
10:07:20B4gderwoodensoul: my thought: you should get longer than so at least with the OF
10:07:21in-janeLlorean: ok, i have to test it by myself. but 10-15 is enough for me :-)
10:08:04Lloreanin-jane: Of course you can get much less if you play a lot of video, or games... anything that keeps the screen light on a lot.
10:08:38linuxstbtodkon: Have you tried re-initialising the database?
10:08:40woodensoulWell, I wasn't even using the player during the test. I just shuffled everthing on it and left it alone.
10:09:38woodensoulI've charged through USB in the OF until the charging icon indicates fully charged which seems to take at least 4 hours. I've also charged with a third party AC adapter that I bought.
10:09:59Lloreanlinuxstb: If RBUtilQT is ready enough, perhaps we should throw one more page into the mix, replacing "Current" with "Download" which just has the utility and basic use instructions, and a link to the manuals for further reading or manual installation.
10:10:22Lloreanwoodensoul: This is hardly the place to seek support with the OF....
10:10:22todkonlinuxstb: nope
10:10:28todkonI'll try that, thanks
10:11:22woodensoulI said even with the OF, which means the Rockbox runtime is even less.
10:11:24linuxstbLlorean: I think RbUtilQT needs more documentation - either embedded or in the manual. For example, with ipod bootloader installs there are the issues of being root/administrator, maybe umounting the device or closing itunes, etc. I don't think it's at the stage where we can simply say "run rbutilqt" and nothing else.
10:12:09pixelmasomeone posted a 1g2g bootloader in the forums...
10:12:19*linuxstb sends in the forum police
10:12:40 Part todkon
10:12:54LloreanDo I need to remove this bootloader link? Where be it? I remember seeing it, but I didn't think it was a problem.
10:12:58 Quit qweru ("moo")
10:13:04LloreanDidn't realize at the time it wasn't quite considered "ready" though
10:13:35Lloreanwoodensoul: Yes, but this means your problem is probably "A defective Sansa" but either way, outside of "Things dealing with the Rockbox software"
10:13:45linuxstbI guess it's harsh to remove the link - I was hoping the file was actually hosted on the forums. Maybe worth adding a note to say that the official release should be in the next few days.
10:14:01Lloreanlinuxstb: Sounds like a good idea.
10:14:21pixelmaLlorean: - maybe put it into the unsupported build forum?
10:15:08pixelmahe also posted instruction how to compile it right above...
10:15:34woodensoulIt is possible that the battery is the only thing that is defective?
10:16:30woodensoulAnd I'm betting that the fact that I didn't fully charge the battery before my first use wouldn't permanently damage the battery capacity?
10:17:55in-janedo you know can i use my old charger (from Creative MicroPhoto) to charge my new Sansa e260?
10:18:22advcomp2019not really
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10:23:52B4gderin-jane: you can't, the sansa has a custom connect and only charges over usb
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10:24:20in-janeB4gder: ok. that's sad!
10:24:32Zagorcustom connector?
10:24:40LloreanZagor: Much like the iPod dock connector
10:24:56Zagoris that the same on the c200 series?
10:24:58B4gderZagor: yes, they have a custom USB => sansa-connector
10:25:06B4gderno idea
10:25:23advcomp2019in-jane, the only way is with a the sansa dock or griffin powerdock for the sansa
10:25:25ZagorI think I'll go get one during lunch
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10:26:17in-janeadvcomp2019: thanks for the info!
10:27:31*Llorean wants a Rockboxable target that has a usb plug builtin, like a thumb drive
10:27:55B4gderyeah, that'd be neat
10:28:47LinusNthe iaudio x5 subpack is a real pain
10:28:49LloreanI've seen a few flash players like that, but they're almost universally ones that ought to be given out in cereal boxes.
10:29:01Zagorthe sansa express does. have we written off that as possible target?
10:29:28B4gderjust nobody poked on it (yet)
10:29:47LloreanZagor: I have to say that's a pretty unrealistic image.
10:30:08B4gderit seems to be a PP based target
10:30:27B4gdersince it works with the same updater program like the other ones
10:30:30linuxstbB4gder: Sounds promising then...
10:30:52B4gderyes, a tempting one... ;-)
10:30:53linuxstbHmm, I wouldn't assume the same CPU just because Sansa have a unified updater...
10:31:07B4gderno, but its a hint
10:31:22B4gderit supports 4 players, the other 3 are PP
10:31:29linuxstbIf I was Sansa, I would just release one updater...
10:31:35linuxstbOr sandisk even...
10:31:46B4gderfor example, the m200 is not supported and it is not PP
10:31:51linuxstbSame principle as rbutilqt...
10:32:02linuxstbWas m200 an older device though?
10:32:07B4gderyes I think so
10:32:19pondlifeCould we drop the ..qt from RBUtil now the wx one has gone?
10:32:32linuxstbSame principle as rbutil...
10:32:43*B4gder tries to run the updater...
10:34:28pondlifeZagor (or whoever): If you're updating the front screen, can you unbold the "Tracker Cleanup Week has begun!" bit?
10:34:59linuxstbOr change it to say it happened?
10:35:01peturor move it up and schedule it for next week...
10:35:08B4gderargh, the updater doesn't reveal/download anything without a target inserted
10:35:58linuxstbI assume no-one has noticed any dissections of the new ipods online yet?
10:36:17Zagor"the Sansa Express has an STMP3600"
10:36:28B4gdersigmatel it is then
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10:36:45*petur proposes auto-scheduling of a tracker cleanup week whenever it goes above 1000 entries
10:37:01B4gderlinuxstb: nopes
10:37:14linuxstbCan't we just put a limit in flyspray? "Sorry, Rockbox has too many bugs already, please try again later..."
10:37:30B4gder"please fix one and then retry"
10:37:54peturah a post ratio: you can only post if you fix some first
10:38:05ZagorIt's like the class Microsoft Word error message: Document is too large, remove some text and try again
10:38:32Lloreanlinuxstb: I thought they weren't going to be in-stores until "the weekend"
10:38:35peturit was an error message? I know word6 just crashed
10:38:58B4gderit was an error message
10:39:01ZagorI got it in an error dialog. I think it was when trying to print.
10:39:04B4gderI got it
10:39:10B4gderI got it when trying to save
10:39:22B4gderthe best possible time
10:40:15B4gderback in the happy 90s, oh those days...
10:41:04 Quit ddalton ("leaving")
10:42:09B4gderthese cowords only take photos of the outside!
10:42:25preglowsleek it's not...
10:42:52linuxstbB4gder: "Apple outsider" then...
10:43:21LloreanSomehow those close-up shots of the the headphone port are... disturbing...
10:43:32preglowwe need some kind of gui genious to come freshen rockbox' looks up :/
10:43:47linuxstbThe wheel looks even smaller than the 1G/2G Nano...
10:44:42Lloreanpreglow: All we really need are a gradient highlight bar, color icons by default, a colored status bar, and *maybe* the ability to draw the menu on half the screen during the WPS. :-P
10:44:54linuxstbAh, viewports!
10:45:04LinusNhere we go again... :-)
10:45:11LloreanViewports is only necessary for the final point.
10:45:27linuxstbIt was help when making a nicer status bar.
10:45:31LloreanColored icons by default would actually make it clearly graphical at least (on appropriate targets)
10:45:45preglowanti-aliased fonts :P
10:45:50Lloreanpreglow: There's a patch for that
10:45:51LinusN /kick preglow
10:45:52LloreanCLaims it's fast too
10:46:14LloreanAnti-aliased fonts using our existing ones, I think he said
10:46:19linuxstbAnd a 3D cover-art browser like Cover Flow...
10:46:24Zagori've been toying around with the idea of "transition plugins". i.e. pluggable code to handle transitions between different pages.
10:46:25preglowLlorean: orly?
10:46:28Lloreanpreglow: Yup
10:46:30LloreanLemme check
10:46:40LloreanZagor: That'd satisfy some peoples
10:46:50Zagoreither simply left-right scroll like the ipod fw, or whatever zoomy crap you can come up with
10:47:01preglowbut i don't think the code for it would be big enough to merit plugins
10:47:03Lloreanpreglow: 7683
10:47:09preglowLlorean: thanks
10:47:17LinusNZagor: whatever you are smoking, i want some too :-)
10:47:25Zagorpreglow: the point with plugins would be to let it be choosable/hackable
10:47:27preglowhe's high on rockbox
10:47:39amiconnI wonder what all these "transition effect" crap is about. It only hampers quick operation
10:47:54Zagoramiconn: absolutely. I wouldn't run it myself...
10:47:58LinusNamiconn: they are about looking cool
10:47:59linuxstbDidn't we recently reject (with a "no, thanks") a feature request for screen transition effects?
10:48:15Lloreanamiconn: Clearly while waiting for a disk to spinup for a folder change is too horrible, waiting for a fade effect is fine and dandy
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10:49:09Lloreanpreglow: Apparently not a patch, I thought there had been one attached. =/
10:49:09preglowi don't see a point in antialiasing our current fonts...
10:49:47preglowi was more thinking bitmap fonts with an alpha channel
10:49:53preglowwill probably be dog-slow, but there you go
10:50:11LloreanWell, using sub-pixel hinting with our existing fonts probably won't be too bad.
10:50:14amiconnFont antialiasing would require alpha support, which would slow down font rendering by a factor of 10x +
10:50:32preglowLlorean: but why? we don't need sub-pixel accuracy
10:50:49amiconnMany OFs can cheat in that respect, as they only use a single font and fixed backgrounds
10:50:51linuxstbamiconn: I agree, but we also have targets (e.g. Gigabeat F, and even more so the Gigabeat S) with cpu cycles to burn...
10:51:42B4gderand burning cpu cycles is fun!
10:51:54Lloreanpreglow: Wouldn't it result in nicer looking fonts, without quite the same performance burden as anti-aliasing?
10:52:13B4gderenter the gigabeat-rockbox folding@home client
10:52:22scorche`even the Gigabeat S's transitions lag...
10:52:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:52:36preglowLlorean: it would depend heavily on the font, but i don't see a reason in offsetting our ordinary fonts by half a pixel just to make them looks blurrier
10:52:39linuxstbscorche`: Then they must be very poorly implemented...
10:53:03scorche`linuxstb: wouldnt surprise me...
10:53:11Zagorpreglow: get with the times, blurry is cool! ;)
10:53:15amiconnLlorean: For font anti-aliasing, you do need alpha support
10:53:25amiconnThere's no way around that
10:53:26linuxstbI can't imagine why a 500+MHz CPU should struggle to animate a 320x240 LCD.
10:53:31B4gdernot if the background is solid ;-)
10:53:37Lloreanpreglow: So make it a configurable option (or a by-font option). Some people will want it, and wouldn't it only double the font size from 1bpp to 2bpp?
10:53:46Lloreanamiconn: Sub-pixel rendering isn't font-antialiasing though.
10:54:13amiconnHmm, do you mean like Cleartype?
10:54:47LinusNyou can fake antialiasing by prerendering, no alpha support needed
10:55:06LinusNalpha support is noly needed when the background is unknown
10:55:11preglowLlorean: worst case it'll double it, yes, but if the font is one pixel wide in places, it'll look like absolute shit
10:55:17LloreanLinusN: Which it always is with Rockbox, though.
10:55:46Lloreanpreglow: If the user wants absolute shit, why not offer it to him?
10:55:59LinusNwe can offer a whole bag of it :-)
10:56:04preglowLlorean: i dunno, it hasn't been our policy thus far
10:56:07LloreanWith giant fonts, which seems to be what users prefer anyway, it'll soften things up a little bit.
10:56:21preglowi wouldn't exactly yell at whoever produced a patch, heh
10:56:28preglowbut i don't see a point in it right now
10:56:36LloreanIn the end, it'd have to be seen on target to decide on anyway
10:56:37preglowi'd be more interested in alpha support and fonts rendered with an alpha channel
10:56:46Lloreanpreglow: Gonna buy a Gigabeat S then?
10:56:54preglowLlorean: no cash, also, i can't find one
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10:58:00 Join Thundercloud [0] (
10:58:07B4gderactually lots of people prefer eye-candy to speedy operations
10:58:22preglowi even know techy people that do
10:58:41preglowi even know coders that run vista :>
10:58:54*linuxstb points to some eye-candy -
10:58:54scorche`preglow: you must not be aware of the rockbox post box...
10:59:55*scorche` has bought 4 gigabeat Ss so far for Rockbox people...
11:00:12preglowhas he, now
11:00:18preglowthen only the cash is missing
11:00:20preglowhow much is it?
11:00:23linuxstb$199 for 60GB, $169 for 30GB
11:00:43linuxstb(plus shipping)
11:00:44preglowwhy, that's almost nothing
11:01:11preglowthen i shall seriously consider it once i'm out of the current economical predicament :P
11:01:51linuxstbI hope you don't have to wait too long - they don't seem to be getting any easier to find...
11:02:08LloreanThe plus side is that there are actually batteries available for the S-series
11:02:16LloreanSo they seem a wee bit more maintainable than the F
11:02:24B4gderthe perfect rockbox target, going away before the port works...
11:02:28preglowscorche`: new or used?
11:02:40linuxstbB4gder: I think they went away before the port started...
11:02:53scorche`(considered better than new by many)
11:03:07Lloreanpreglow: Mine came in very good condition. A tiny scratch on the screen, and the button labels were worn off, but other than that nothing to indicate serious wear or signs of damage.
11:03:21LloreanI had to guess which button was previous/next/pause/etc.
11:03:22 Quit JerryLange ("Leaving")
11:03:33LloreanSince they aren't obvious things like "Left" or "Right" on the cross.
11:03:39preglowwhy the hell did they go away so early?
11:03:50preglowrightie, anyone cracked that yet?
11:03:53LloreanIt's a Gigabeat S with fancier packaging.
11:04:04linuxstbpreglow: Someone installed a new font...
11:04:11 Join Hoss [0] (
11:04:24preglowwould be more encouraing to do a port if the work can be used elsewhere too
11:04:44linuxstbYes, I wonder if there are any other i.MX31 DAPs..
11:04:50 Quit Siltaar (Remote closed the connection)
11:04:54 Nick Hoss is now known as Jangari (
11:04:57preglowi.mx31 is a pretty popular platform right now
11:05:04preglowi would even expect some new ones to come out with imx.31
11:05:10preglowgo dot placement
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11:09:16preglow12 hour battery life? that's a bit sucky
11:09:49linuxstbAn easy target to beat with Rockbox I would hope
11:09:56preglowSome users have encountered a problem when the player deletes all media on its hard drive after being disconnected from USB sync with a computer. <- let's try to retain this bug, it's hilarious
11:10:27*linuxstb asks Zagor to add a new "bug request" feature to flyspray
11:11:10Zagor"please give me more bugs, I have too much spare time"?
11:12:37Lloreanpreglow: I'm assuming part of the 12 hour battery life is ridiculously bad HD use.
11:12:51preglowhow the hell do the devs get away with that?
11:12:53LloreanWhile browsing the playlist, about every three entries it had to spin up the disk.
11:13:16LloreanIt would spin down almost immediately if I wasn't constantly scrolling, then spin up again once I started moving.
11:13:50LloreanAnd this isn't "every third song I skipped to" but "Every third entry I highlighted"
11:14:28LloreanAt first I thought it was trying to precache some of the highlighted song so I could play it immediately, but that turned out to be false
11:14:54scorche`yeah...the OF is pretty bad
11:18:35preglowdoes fat support mapping away certain sectors?
11:20:49 Quit obo ("bye")
11:22:55LinusNpreglow: not really
11:23:09preglowi've got some bad sectors i want to not use...
11:23:40LinusNyou can fake it by marking some clusters as used, but it will go away when you scandisk and find "lost cluster chains"
11:24:04preglowok, so fat is helpless in the presence of bad sectors
11:24:10amiconnYou can also mark clusters as bad
11:24:16LinusNafaik, scandisk can mark clusters as bad using the fat
11:24:24preglowrockbox respects that, i hope? :>
11:24:26LinusNamiconn: ah, yes, now i remember
11:24:45amiconnpreglow: yes, sure
11:25:01preglowcool, then i shall reformat my h120 and give it the windows treatment soon
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11:27:48*amiconn wouldn't trust a disk at all when it already shows bad sectors at the OS level
11:28:20preglowamiconn: me meither, but it's either that or no h120
11:28:32preglowand i don't care anyway, all the music on it is also on my computer
11:31:30LinusNZagor: nice!
11:32:10gregjso anyone tried iPod classic yet ?
11:32:20rasherZagor: FS missing
11:32:33Zagorrasher: yeah, we haven't made a cute little box for that yet
11:32:38peturZagor: why isn't the wiki change list a table?
11:32:53scorche`gregj: no
11:32:56Zagorit is, reload to get the new stylesheet
11:32:58amiconnpreglow: I'd just replace the disk...
11:33:16peturZagor: ok, I see it now
11:33:17LloreanCan we get the channel topic changed to "No, we haven't tried any of the new iPods, and nobody is working on them at this time"?
11:33:37LloreanI think the weather's going to get worse before it gets better.
11:33:50scorche`Llorean: really think it is necessary?
11:33:52preglowamiconn: this is where the lack of cash once again rears its ugly head
11:33:56Zagorgregj: there's lots of vieos about the new ipods on youtube.
11:34:17gammyHmm. My iRiver iHP120 has stopped autochanging directories. Is this a common problem? I had it before but an upgrade solved it. Now I've upgraded again but the problem persists. Any ideas?
11:34:24Lloreanscorche`: Dunno, we'll see over the next week. :-P
11:34:31gammymaybe that was offtopic :/.
11:34:43LinusNgammy: make sure you don't have repeat on
11:34:44scorche`Llorean: alright...i dont see much sense in changing the topic like that now at least
11:34:54gregjZagor: well, lemme see
11:35:06gammyLinusN: Yeah I was thinking about that. What is it supposed to be set to? I assumed 'All' would be the entire archive.
11:35:31Lloreangammy: The playlist has to end for it to change directories, so repeat has to be off.
11:35:37LinusNgammy: "All" means all files in the playlist
11:36:07preglowcurrently autochange dirs is a bit of a hack, yeah?
11:36:09gammyand the current playlist is the directory you're in when not using the db, am I right?
11:36:27LinusNpreglow: sort of
11:36:28Lloreanpreglow: So I hear, and then there's directory shuffle on top of it.
11:36:33LinusNgammy: right
11:36:41preglowi think the better solution would be a playlist mode and a directory mode
11:36:42gammyI can't use the db-stuff because my drive is a bit dodgy. A complete scan will just freeze the iRiver.
11:36:46preglowbut that might be confusing...
11:36:57LinusNgammy: nasty
11:37:05gammyLinusN: Yeah.
11:37:24gammyLinusN: But it's not that bad - I might have to kill my iRiver once every six months because of it.
11:37:42gammyit works now
11:37:48gammyI disabled repeat.
11:38:08gammyLinusN: but you know - I can't even run the original firmware
11:38:17gammyrockbox has given this machine over two extra years
11:38:20gammyand it's still kicking.
11:38:36gammyRockbox is so great.
11:38:40gammyIt makes me want to cry :D
11:38:42LinusNnice to hear
11:39:04preglowit sometimes makes me cry :/
11:39:08gammyIf any developers are in Stockholm I insist on buying them some beers some day.
11:39:25*LinusN likes beer and lives in stockholm
11:39:29gammyI was planning on making some "plugins" last year but never got around to it.
11:39:38gammyI should really look into that when I have some time.
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11:39:58*GodEater likes beer and would come to Stockholm for it
11:40:02gammyI wish I knew more lowlevel hacking so I could help out.
11:40:10gammyGodEater: Where are you? :=.
11:40:13gammyerm, ":)."
11:40:30preglowahh, the predator smiley
11:40:47*scorche` likes beer and would come to stockholm if someone bought him a ticket
11:42:37Jangaridoes stockholm, or sweden in general, brew any noteworthy beers?
11:42:59Zagorsweden does, indeed
11:43:10preglowsweden does, yes
11:43:17ZagorJämtlands Bryggeri makes one of my absolute favourite ales
11:43:29gammyJangari: NO
11:43:30Jangarituborg is swedish isn't it?
11:43:31preglownarke kaggen stormaktsporter is currently rated as the best beer in the world by :>
11:43:34preglowJangari: danish
11:43:46gammyI don't think there's a mentionable Swedish beer.
11:43:55preglowthere are
11:43:56scorche`petur is going to be sad he missed this conversation...
11:43:58gammyNow Belgium..
11:44:00Jangarior an internationally available one, even
11:44:04Zagorgammy: then you have either very strange taste, or you haven't been looking :)
11:44:12gammyZagor: Perhaps a bit of both.
11:44:13Jangarii'd like to try sweden's beers
11:44:13*petur is triggered by beer
11:44:13preglownils oscar brews nice stuff too
11:44:16gammyI like uh
11:44:18Jangaribut they can't be bought in aus
11:45:11preglowoooh, jämlands oatmeal porter :>
11:45:26gammyDuvel, Chimay, Kwak, ..
11:45:33gammyKwak is my favourite.
11:45:47preglowtis good indeed
11:45:57Zagorgammy: try Smörpundets Porter by Nynäshamns Ångbryggeri. it's heaven in a bottle.
11:46:09preglowi want to taste that...
11:46:25Zagorbelgians tend to put too much alcohol in their beers for my taste. it hides the malt and barley.
11:46:27Jangarinever heard of kwak
11:46:40Zagornow THIS is rockbox on-topic ! ;)
11:46:43Jangarichimay is certainly excellent
11:46:55scorche`Zagor: beer is always on-topic =)
11:47:00gammyZagor: yeah they usually have a lot of alcohol. But I don't think it disturbs the taste. I mean they are fine beers.
11:47:01preglowwhen i come over for devcon, you'll have to restrain me
11:47:18scorche`sounds like a bag of beer!
11:47:22Jangaricarlsberg elephant :D
11:47:35Jangarispeaking of beer...
11:47:35amiconnLinusN: Are you referring to that 1-minute drink!! plugin? ;)
11:47:37*Jangari boogies out of the room
11:47:45preglowJangari: hahaha, connoisseurs choice
11:47:50*petur gets thirsty
11:47:53LinusNamiconn: aaah, powerhour.rock! :-)
11:48:23*Jangari ambles into the room with a squire in hand
11:48:26preglowthis is it, afterwards it's imperial stout time
11:49:13Zagorthis is my "standard" ale:
11:50:06gammyZagor: dried..fruit?
11:50:12preglowZagor: looks tasty...
11:50:20preglowsounds like an esb
11:50:28scorche`gammy: developer's conference
11:50:33Zagorpreglow: yes, quite related to esb
11:50:47gammyscorche`: Yes I figured - but when/where ?
11:51:28scorche`hasnt been decided yet
11:51:40scorche`you can see the past conferences on the wiki
11:52:48gammyer. Where in the wiki? A search didn't reveal anything.
11:53:15scorche`DevCon2006, DevCon2007, DevConWest2007
11:54:50*GodEater thinks that the "Go" box at the top of most wiki pages is confused with a "Search" box
11:54:54gammyAny pictures?
11:55:13gammyGodEater: Ah yes. You're right. My bad.
11:55:33GodEatergammy: not really, I think it's a dire UI choice
11:55:38*pondlife is hoping that the DevConPub2 picture has vanished
11:55:50GodEaterit's still in the forums
11:56:12GodEaterpreglow: just search for the London Social Meet thread
11:57:14preglowhaha, arm wrestling!
11:57:15*pondlife abuses his developer badge and deletes the thread
11:57:58*preglow stores the images away for future abuse
11:58:09pondlifescorche: Where are you, that you don't have any other Rockbox hackers around?
11:58:48scorche`pondlife: southern california
11:59:33pondlifeEntirely OT, my brother's just moved to CA, not sure whereabouts "Campbell" is though
12:00:00scorche`pondlife: it seems the whole morning has been OT
12:00:00pondlifeThe arm wrestling image contains a virus?
12:00:28gregjLinusN: thing with the ipods is, they are useless without rockbox :)
12:00:38LinusNagreed :-)
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12:00:53scorche`pondlife: a fair bit away
12:02:03gregjLinusN: I just wish sokoban will be bit bigger on screen of my ipod ;) and maybe battery life, toehrwise, I haven't used apple's firmware since I started using rockbox
12:02:57LinusNgregj: feel free to dig in and make sokoban bigger
12:03:35gregjI know :)
12:04:35gregji think they just changed HD sizes on 'classic' ipod, and probably they all work now in 1M/2M per sector, and that's it, that's my guess of course
12:04:50linuxstbgregj: I doubt it...
12:04:56scorche`im sure there is much more
12:05:10gregjI just wait for some website to take it appart
12:05:21scorche`the PP chips couldn handle those new features
12:05:26pondlifeI suspect Apple wouldn't want to use PortalPlayer for new models.
12:05:29linuxstbThey announced they were dropping PortalPlayer over a year ago - so I don't think they would release any new DAPs based on them now.
12:05:51gregjso nvidi bought PP in vain
12:05:53linuxstbPlus what scorche` said, plus the fact that the UI has completely redesigned and matches the 3G Nano...
12:06:06gregjI think it is the other way around
12:06:07linuxstbPlus the very long battery life...
12:06:12gregjnew nano has the features old ipod had
12:06:40gregjin terms of UI
12:06:45scorche`gregj: the nanos have had the beefier hardware longer
12:06:52linuxstbNo, it has Cover Flow for one thing.
12:06:56gregjI will go to apple store on monday, and check it out
12:07:07gregjI think they had this in previous one
12:07:22LinusNthe ui is rather silly to me, why waste half of the screen for a silly slide show?
12:07:34linuxstbWhat else do you do with large colour LCDs?
12:07:39gregjnow that I work in london, I can go to the store anytime :)
12:07:49linuxstb(apart from silly eye-candy...)
12:07:58scorche`LinusN: same reason people want DOOM to have priority over playback
12:08:10gregjnr 1 complint I can read here, and in formums, is that rockbox's UI is unreadable, due to the smallish font
12:08:11LinusNscorche`: good point
12:08:23gregjdoom is great :D
12:08:30scorche`gregj: that is why you change the font...
12:08:31LinusNgregj: so true, the default font is tiny
12:08:47gregjbtw, did you guys change anything in fixed point mp3 decoding over last month ?
12:09:05*scorche` points to the changelog
12:09:14gregjI can hear clicks sometimes now, and I listein to music on 0.3 volume - because I have better headphones now
12:09:30gregjscorche`: well, I cna view the diff, nice, but this won't give me too much info :)
12:09:38gregjI am not familliar with the source that good
12:09:44gregjwhere 1 is full volume
12:09:49pixelmaLinusN: depends on the display...
12:10:00scorche`gregj: 0 is line level on rockbox..
12:10:07gregjI see
12:10:09gregjso 0.7 ?
12:10:22B4gderlibmad was modified in July most recently
12:10:25B4gderit seems
12:10:28scorche`and rockbox doesnt measure volume in points
12:11:02gregjB4gder: that must be it than
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12:11:33gregjB4gder: is it api compatible, iow, can I just swap it for the older one, just the libmad ?
12:11:37Lloreangregj: Again, though, where are you getting these volume numbers?
12:11:41*linuxstb thought theotherpreglow as postglow
12:12:06theotherpreglowi hate to say it, but booting rockbox is slightly disappointing after having been in retailos :/
12:12:28LinusNtheotherpreglow: /msg nickserv ghost
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12:13:12 Nick pondlife is now known as thesamepondlifeb (n=Miranda@rockbox/developer/pondlife)
12:13:13theotherpreglowLinusN: my shell isn't up yet
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12:13:27lurkThis might have been discussed but I'll ask anyway. I mean making the sysfont bigger for targets with larger screens.
12:13:29gregjtheotherpreglow: retailos ?
12:13:31Zagortheotherpreglow: yeah eyecandy isn't our best act :)
12:13:34B4gderI usually consider it a relief to come back to rockbox once I've ran on OF
12:13:39B4gderan OF
12:13:45LinusNlurk: would be nice
12:13:54lurkWhat are the cons? Apart from that has to be done?
12:13:55theotherpreglowusage wise: hell yes, but rockbox looks... ugly
12:14:22scorche`lurk: it is the same font for all targets, from archos, to ipods
12:14:24 Quit pondlife ("darn")
12:14:33theotherpreglowit doesn't have to be a clone fo retailos, but right now we're just plainly not doing it right in any wya
12:14:35linuxstblurk: Increased binary size. But I agree it would be sensible.
12:14:40B4gderthe cons: it has to be done and tested and a patch must be posted ;-)
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12:14:57lurkLinusN: of course, it still has to be small enough so that the status bar fits in. But it can be done individually for every target.
12:15:02B4gderuntil our automatic code-writing bot is done
12:15:02amiconnThe sysfont should stay the same as it is now, on all targets
12:15:19amiconnWe should rather have a different default depending on lcd size+resolution
12:15:20 Quit preglow (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:15:27LinusNamiconn: exactly
12:15:30B4gderit doesn't make sense to have the same font when we have different resolutions anyway
12:16:01amiconnIt does make sense. The sysfont is only meant for debug stuff and severe error messages
12:16:16B4gderyes, but it already is different since it looks different on different LCDs
12:16:20lurklinuxstb: of course, only one font would be compiled in. The sysfont could go to the traget tree.
12:16:20amiconnSo it should stay as small as possible, also because it's built-in
12:16:23LinusNit is used for the boot splash
12:16:38B4gdernot that I mind the sysfont too much
12:16:39amiconnboot splas?
12:16:46linuxstbThe version info display
12:16:48LinusNyes, the version string below the logo
12:17:21amiconnAh, that
12:17:28LinusNand the status bar
12:17:37amiconnThat needs to be fixed well as the button bar & recording screen
12:17:48LinusNthe status bar is really silly on the large displays
12:17:51lurkamiconn: and WPS status bar. Which is my main consern and objection against a very small sysfont
12:18:05amiconnlurk: Re-read what I just said
12:18:08 Quit scorche` (Remote closed the connection)
12:18:31linuxstblurk: amiconn's point (IIUC) is that the user should never see the sysfont, so there's no point in increasing the size.
12:18:55*pondlife looks through many bytes of IRC log....
12:19:02amiconnYes, the user should never see the sysfont unless there's some kind of emergency
12:19:10pixelmasysfont = built-in but doesn't necessarily have to be the default...
12:19:30amiconn(like a crash, or broken installation)
12:19:34lurkBut then we should have multi font UI. Which we don't even in the plans
12:19:39*gregj *grins* and puts the evil smile on me face
12:19:48gregjdid you guys ever tried putting rockbox on zune :>
12:19:53linuxstbDo we even need that version info on the splash screen? Could we take the easy solution to that one and remove it?
12:20:08B4gdergregj: nobody has "broken" into that yet afaik
12:20:24gregjthat would explain why it doesn't do very well in sales ;)
12:20:28B4gderlinuxstb: I think we can
12:20:41B4gderremove sysfont week!
12:21:05B4gderwell, not remove but remove from user's face
12:21:29amiconnWe could ven keep that info, rendered with different fonts depending on lcd resolution, without having the large font built-in or waiting for the font to load from disk
12:21:31pixelmawould help a lot to decrease english.lang size as well...
12:21:43B4gderyes, those SYSFONT languages need to go
12:21:53rasherpixelma: not to mention *.voice pre-rendering the info at compile time
12:22:01 Quit theotherpreglow ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
12:22:04LinusNhmm, just tried sokoban on my 5G, it can't be any bigger than that, or the tiles won't fit
12:22:13gregjtake a look at the middle photo,it just looks so bad...
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12:22:30scorchegregj: that is offtopic...
12:22:51*preglow out
12:22:56gregjscorche: heh
12:22:59linuxstbamiconn: That doesn't sound worth the effort...
12:23:06pondlifeThis has probably been discussed to death, but I can't find it, so here goes... What was the result of GSoC? And is Nico_P still working on MoB?
12:23:16lurkAnd in the meanwhile (no viewports, no multi font UI) we could just make the system font depend on the target (or on the screen size, actually)
12:23:29scorchepondlife: working, pretty much just WMA
12:23:54amiconnlurk: Not easily. Many parts that use the sysfont currently *rely* on its size
12:24:41amiconnSo those parts would need changing... but since they need to be touched anyway, it makes no sense to keep them using the sysfont
12:24:49pondlifescorche: I guess he's in exam mode for much of September...
12:24:55lurkamiconn: oh, didn't know that. On its absolute size? Or on the fact that everything (i.e. status bar) will fit?
12:25:20amiconnOn its absoltute size.
12:25:48lurkamiconn: i.e. is there code with e.g. x+=8 (assuming 8 is the font width)?
12:26:07 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC")
12:26:11 Join GodEater [0] (i=c2cbc95c@rockbox/staff/GodEater)
12:26:22lurkamiconn: ah, then it should be part of a larger action, I see
12:26:22GodEaterjoin #rockbox-community
12:26:42*pixelma hands GodEater an /
12:27:07lurkBut while the status bar looks reasonably good on H120, it's very small on ipod
12:27:36pondlifeWe should look at viewports before revising the status bar, surely.
12:27:45linuxstblurk: Lots of ipods have smaller (or the same) sized screen as the H120...
12:28:24lurklinuxstb: pixel wise?
12:28:45linuxstbYes. The mini1g, mini2g, 1st gen, 2nd gen, 3rd gen and 4th gen. The Nano is only slightly larger.
12:29:00pondlifeI'd love to have the same custom status bar in WPS and menus, somehow. which should come out of (1) viewports and (2) custom status bar taken from custom WPS
12:29:22pixelmabtw. the same font can look differently on screens with the same resolution (but smaller pixel dimensions)
12:30:22 Part lurk
12:32:52B4gderwe should update the sansa bootloaders on the download server
12:33:50linuxstbB4gder: For the LCD fix?
12:34:07linuxstbI guess that means a new sansapatcher as well, as it embeds the bootloader...
12:34:32*linuxstb sees a weekend of *patcher releasing in his future
12:35:16linuxstbB4gder: Did anyone download the linux-ppc version of ipodpatcher?
12:35:23amiconnI think we should release the 'verbose' hack from the 1st/2nd gen bootloader for release
12:35:25gregjit looks to me, like there was linux-zune project, but has been 'behind the scenes' bribed/forced by microsoft to sease its existence. (just my opinion)
12:36:03linuxstbgregj: You assume that anyone there had a clue to start with...
12:36:15B4gderlinuxstb: 3 during august from the single server I have some stats for
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12:36:28scorchegregj: that whole project was pretty much a one there had a clue
12:36:38B4gderbut it was a fun joke
12:36:38*linuxstb suspects MS employees enjoyed that project as much as we did
12:36:46B4gderman did they talk lots of funniness
12:36:57gregjlinuxstb: well, its been quite few months now, since they released that piece of crap device
12:37:02scorcheit was basically a bunch of kids sitting around saying "we need donations so we can get developers to help us"
12:37:14 Join seablue [0] (
12:37:14B4gdergregj: so dig in and make a difference!
12:37:26B4gdergregj: it is most likely a huge lack of people caring enough
12:37:30linuxstbgregj: Same situation with the 2nd gen Nano (which I think has been around longer)
12:38:00B4gderand of course care is not enough, you need a bunch of skills and patience too, possible equipment
12:38:33*B4gder signs up for typing school
12:38:45gregjI bet even buying one 2nd/3rd nano device, and giving it to rockbox developer will not help here
12:39:07B4gdergregj: you'd first need to find a developer who's interested on poking on it
12:39:11linuxstbDepends who the developer is, and how much time/effort they want to invest
12:39:27B4gderand one person getting one device is not a lot
12:39:36B4gdergiven a very hard problem
12:40:10B4gderunless MrH is the person... :-)
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12:43:35Embrionhi all
12:44:43EmbrionI haven't updated rockbox for about 6 months, now I did and nothing is working
12:44:59B4gderyou have an ipod, right?
12:45:08linuxstband you didn't update the bootloader, right?
12:45:17B4gderand now you're gonna do that, right?
12:45:18EmbrionI noticed that rockbox.ipod has been moved to .rockbox from root
12:45:37Embrionoh, I see
12:45:49linuxstbEmbrion: Just run ipodpatcher as described in the install chapter in the manual, and select "i" for install. That will update the bootloader.
12:45:57*B4gder pats the mind reading device on his table
12:47:19Embrionthx :) I'm using ipodloader, I know it's not supported here but mayby anyone know if there is an updated version as well ?
12:47:39linuxstbYes, any version of ipodpatcher from Jan 2007 or later should be OK.
12:47:44linuxstbI mean ipodloader2...
12:48:29Embrionthx again, I'll check it out
12:48:30linuxstbAnd make sure you delete the old rockbox.ipod from the root - you should only have one copy, inside .rockbox
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12:51:10gregjB4gder: it is funny how you guys always say - 'but if you donate a device to developer...', and than something like that..
12:51:41linuxstbgregj: We're always happy to accept gifts of new toys
12:52:27B4gdergregj: well, its funny how you guys always say "haven't anyone done this device yet" etc, and than something like that..
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12:52:59DefineBytewhy does 'show id3 info' in the WPS context menu show empty/nonexistent tags?
12:53:55B4gderto confuse users
12:54:16Llorean"Show ID3 info" should probably be "Show metadata" these days, or "Show tags"
12:54:36DefineByteyeah, that would be better
12:55:00gregjhmm. is running / iis 6.0 server, I feel m$'s fingers there, truely :/
12:55:05linuxstbLlorean: It should have been that for about 2.5 years...
12:55:15DefineBytebut still, why not hide empty tags?
12:55:21pixelmaI think it's good to know that tags are missing
12:55:25Lloreanlinuxstb: Yeah, but it's getting more and more "it should be"
12:55:32scorchegregj: please stay on topic...
12:55:38Lloreanpixelma: It'd be nice if it showed all tags that we index in the database or can show on the WPS
12:55:52DefineByteit's not that they're missing though
12:56:07LloreanDefineByte: Depends on your definition of "Missing"
12:56:10linuxstbWhat are they, then?
12:56:14DefineBytework isn't missing from pet sounds by the beach boys
12:56:18DefineByteit's just not needed
12:56:25DefineBytesame with comments
12:56:37linuxstbAre they _needed_ anywhere?
12:56:47DefineBytecomments? probably not
12:56:51LloreanYes, but leaving them off entirely can result in your song ending up on the <Untagged> list, so knowing the tag isn't there means you can fill it in with a placeholder.
12:57:09linuxstbBTW, what is "work" meant to contain?
12:57:23*linuxstb is reminded he should be doing that
12:57:42DefineByteleaving 'comments' off?
12:58:38 Quit k-man (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:59:14DefineBytecurrently 'show id3 info' (ignoring the fact that it may not be ID3) doesn't do what it claims to
12:59:50pixelmaDefineByte: some use the comment tags, and I still want to know if a file has that tag or not, even if I don't care about that specific one. Hiding it makes me forget which tags that could be and displaying as "no info" doesn't hurt IMO
13:00:13DefineByteif it doesn't show it, it doesn't have it obviously
13:00:53DefineBytei don't need to see 'work: no tag data' or whatever. it not being there will tell me 'work' isn't present
13:01:28scorchethen make a patch that does that and be happy...why are you always starting these never-ending arguments?
13:01:31LloreanDefineByte: And for people who have no clue "Work" is a valid Rockbox tag?
13:01:58DefineBytei'd imagine a list of valid tags should be in the manual
13:02:02LloreanSeriously, what benefit is there in hiding information that may be useful to users if it's going to actually mean additional code to do so?
13:02:04pixelmayeah... but do you always know which tags are supported and then count or see at first glance which one isn't there - I couldn't see easily then if there really is a tag missing that I usually want to have
13:02:17DefineByteand i do plan on writing a patch so don't worry. 8)
13:02:41DefineByteit'd not like you can add them from within rockbox anyway
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13:04:05DefineBytei just wanted to know if there was a good reason for it before i wrote a patch and it seems not. thanks
13:04:22LloreanI really don't think having to compare the ID3 viewer with an external written list is the most user friendly solution.
13:04:30LloreanDefineByte: If you write a patch, it seems pretty clear it'll get rejected...
13:04:33linuxstbDefineByte: The reason seems to be that everyone apart from you likes to see empty tags...
13:05:04DefineByteweird :)
13:05:24DefineBytenah, i think you just like the status quo :)
13:05:48linuxstbWho created the status quo?
13:06:21linuxstbBut if you read today's logs, you'll see lots of things no-one is happy with and want to see improved...
13:06:35LloreanAreas where time can be spent to the benefit of all.
13:06:49DefineBytehey, i have plaenty of time
13:07:00LloreanGood, there's plenty of work to be done.
13:07:16DefineByteif no-one wants it though i may as well not prioritise it
13:07:34scorcheif writing a patch makes you happy, then why wouldnt you do it?
13:07:40linuxstbDefineByte: _you_ want it, and that's what open source is about. Do what interests you.
13:08:00DefineByteit's hardly a big deal. it would be nice but that's all
13:09:46DefineByteis there anywhere else that would be a viable place to show supported tags wfrom within rockbox?
13:10:01DefineByteelse i may just make it a bool
13:10:27linuxstbYou mean show a list of the tags Rockbox understands, or the values of those tags in a particular file?
13:11:04DefineBytethe former
13:11:20DefineBytesince it seems important to people
13:11:30LloreanWouldn't that just make the situation worse, having to switch between a file and a separate list to compare?
13:11:57linuxstbDefineByte: Rockbox doesn't have any "online help", and that would seem to be in that category of info.
13:12:27DefineBytemaybe i could make a rockbox help plugin
13:12:34DefineBytemight be interestng
13:12:39LloreanIt seems adding code to dynamically hide empty tags, then adding more code to show a list of tags somewhere that you then have to remember while going to check the file is a way of making the same feature more complicated.
13:13:16linuxstbDefineByte: It would be. The problem IMO is how to call it. Ideally we would want a global keypress to bring up context-sensitive help, but there are not enough buttons for that.
13:13:31DefineByteyou can't tag in rockbox so knowing while in rockbox seems a bit pointless to me anyway
13:13:41linuxstbThen code a tag editor...
13:13:43DefineBytebut still, a plugin for help would be cool
13:13:48LloreanDefineByte: Can't tag in Rockbox yet.
13:13:58DefineBytewell, yeah. that's true
13:14:08LloreanIt's a common feature request, and pretty much the only reason there's not a plugin to do it is that nobody interested in the feature has done it.
13:14:21LloreanWell, I think there's a strictly ID3 tag editor, actually.
13:14:25linuxstbPlus it would need to deal with every tag format Rockbox supports....
13:14:27*Llorean seems to recall seeing one of those.
13:14:42pixelmathere was a tag editor patch in the tracker... probably mp3 only and outdated
13:15:04Lloreanlinuxstb: Which could be handled by making the ID3 viewer accept input when you click on a field.
13:15:22LloreanSince that's already handling all the tag formats Rockbox supports.
13:15:39DefineByteit would depend on wether the tag editor was built-in or a plugin whether 'show id3 info' should show empty tags
13:16:06DefineByteif you could edit tags by slecting them from within 'show id3' then obviously all should be shown
13:16:11LloreanDefineByte: Considering it would add more code either way for it to hide tags, I don't see any point in having it do so.
13:16:21DefineByteelse they'd only need to be visible from within the plugin
13:16:38LloreanShow ID3 is still quicker to get to, and would just let you know you need to run the plugin (if you want to fix those tags)
13:17:07DefineBytefair enough :)
13:17:13DefineBytei'd still like it though :D
13:17:33amiconnLlorean: Writing tags means considerably more effort than reading
13:17:33 Quit linuxstb ("Leaving")
13:17:52amiconnIt might even invole making a temporary copy of the whole file
13:18:45Lloreanamiconn: I didn't mean to suggest it was by any means easy, only that there's already a part of the code that obviously handles all the known tag formats.
13:18:54LloreanIn a read-only manner, of course
13:19:37DefineByteso what's preferable: 'show metadata'; ;show metadata info'; 'show tags'; 'show tag info' (or something else)?
13:19:53LloreanI'd go with "Show Metadata"
13:20:03LloreanSince at least the filename (which I believe it shows) isn't technically a tag.
13:20:15LloreanThere may be a few other non-tag bits of info in there (Song length?)
13:21:16DefineBytepath is there
13:21:35DefineByteas is playlist position
13:21:45DefineByteso yeah, tags obviously wouldn't be accurate
13:25:02DefineByteif i was to right a 'help' plugin could the manual be made available in XML?
13:26:25pixelmaI don't understand what you are asking...
13:27:06DefineByteas in could rockbox provide an XML version of the manual for people to put on there DAPs.
13:28:33 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC")
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13:29:47DefineByteah well, forget it. :)
13:30:39 Quit RaRe ("Quit msgs should be longer.")
13:33:19morrijrDefineByte: the manual is in Tex format within source control - could you do something with that?
13:33:44DefineByteoo, i forgot about that
13:34:00B4gderit is also available in HTML
13:34:17morrijris there an html viewer plugin?
13:34:32B4gderthere's work on one in a patch I believe
13:34:54morrijrsound's like an 'easy' way to display the manual :)
13:35:05DefineByteyeah x)
13:36:24DefineBytecan you call plugins with arguments? i was thinking you could have a help button on every context menu that went to the relevant section
13:36:28morrijrrelative ;)
13:36:33linuxstbDefineByte: Yes.
13:36:40amiconnWill you write an XML parser that fits into 32KB of RAM and handles chunked loading?
13:36:41DefineByteonce it's done 8)
13:37:45Zagorc250 is really ideal for rockboxing. the OF works pretty much exactly like rockbox, regaring navigation in menus and options.
13:38:03Embrionhi again, unfortunately I still can't make updated rockbox work :(
13:38:13Embrionused this
13:38:23Zagorunfortunately it too uses a silly dock connector, like e200
13:38:27Embrionfw 1.1.1 so used nano not 5g as a model
13:38:34scorcheEmbrion: follow the directions as said in the manual, and come back to us
13:39:38linuxstbEmbrion: Which ipod do you have, and exactly what symptoms are you experiencing?
13:39:43 Join Flyoc [0] (
13:39:57Flyochello there
13:40:20Embrionlinuxstb: Nano 1gen
13:40:36Embrionrockbox is booting
13:40:38Flyocso last time I checked, you could set a wallpaper on a Cowon with the contextual menu on a picture
13:41:02Flyocbut now it doesnt work, and my search on the forums give nothing :(
13:41:03Embrionand when I open any mp3 file
13:41:33pixelmaFlyoc: you still can if it's a bmp with the same resolution as your display
13:41:36linuxstbEmbrion: Please type complete sentences on a single line...
13:41:36EmbrionI got: undefinied instruction at 00ACD0E0"
13:41:50Embrionlinuxstb: ok, sorry
13:41:57 Quit CaptainSquid (Remote closed the connection)
13:42:30EmbrionI even done reset configuration in order to be sure everything is clean
13:42:52linuxstbEmbrion: I think there are two possible causes: 1) You're running an out of date bootloader as we suggested earlier; 2) You've hit a bug in Rockbox that causes issues on a small proportion of Nanos.
13:43:18linuxstbYou should install the Rockbox bootloader and confirm you still get the problem.
13:43:41 Join RaRe [0] (
13:43:44Embrionlinuxstb: that's not the only error, I managed to open other mp3 and I got "codec error" in the blink of eye
13:44:09linuxstbEmbrion: It's hard for us to diagnose if you're not using the latest official Rockbox bootloader...
13:44:17B4gderEmbrion: sounds like a bootloader problem to me
13:44:37Embrionlinuxstb: yeah, I know and I'll use latest official bootloader right away
13:45:22pixelmadid you remove the rockbox.ipod that's outside the .rockbox directory?
13:45:36Embrionpixelma: sure thing
13:47:24Embrionipodpatcher will uninstall old bootloader if used with 'u' right? I done it and it doesn't see any modified bootloader any more so I guess so
13:47:59linuxstbEmbrion: Yes, but that wasn't necessary. "i" will replace any existing bootloader
13:48:18Zagorhmm. /rockbox/c200/apps/settings_list.o:(.data+0x14): undefined reference to `__compound_literal.4'
13:48:33Zagoris it not supposed to build yet?
13:48:54B4gderZagor: I think perhaps lowlist has some local patches left to commit
13:49:00 Part DefineByte
13:49:01linuxstbWhich arm-elf-gcc do you have?
13:49:28Zagor4.0.2 does sound like the incorrect arm-elf-gcc errors...
13:49:39Zagoraha, which version is needed?
13:49:46linuxstbI think everyone is using 4.0.3
13:49:55Zagor...except the build server :)
13:50:04Zagor(that's where I run this)
13:50:11B4gderwhich build server?
13:50:37B4gderoh, well then you can update that while you're at it ;-)
13:51:14B4gderit should be able to run in no time
13:51:40linuxstbDone yet?
13:55:36Flyocpixelma: this changes my backdrop, not my wallpaper
13:55:42Flyocas in WPS wallpaper
13:56:02pixelmayou have to do that in your wps code
13:56:02Zagorwould anyone mind if I changed to use /tmp instead of $HOME? it is nearly always ran as root, and you really don't want to put a lot of stuff in roots homedir
13:56:57Flyocpixelma: are you sure about that ? idnt there an option in the picture viewer ?
13:56:58pixelmaFlyoc: and you could never do that through the context menu, that's why I thought you meant backdrop
13:58:04B4gderZagor: works for me
13:58:26 Quit miepchen^schlaf ("Verlassend")
13:58:37Embrionwell I installed official bootrloader and this is how it looks: one mp3 - player hangs, other mp3 - "no codec" then "codec failure" blinks
13:59:04scorchehoh did you install the .rockbox folder?
14:00:28Embrionlike every time, I run oroginal apple firmware (as it's faster than disk mode) and copy unzipped .rockbox to players root using total commander
14:00:54Embrionalso additional fonts
14:01:24Embrionother things in root are ipods stuff and my music folder
14:06:04Embrioncurrently I'll leave only one mp3 in the root and check it again
14:07:30pixelmais there a "codec" folder in you .rockbox directory? Also the official instructions advice you to unzip the build directly to the root not unzip it somewhere else and then copying it over
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14:08:57Flyocpixelma: well actually I made a theme !
14:09:02Flyocthanks for your help
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14:12:56 Part pixelma
14:14:15 Join parafin|away [0] (
14:25:11EmbrionRockbox problem still exists, made scan and chkdsk and there's nothing wrond with flash, also checked mpc as well with same result ("codec failure" "no codec"). I was scrolling my wheele in order to prevent it from hanging and after a while it displayed: "prefetch abort at [addres goes here]"
14:25:34 Quit parafin (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
14:26:13EmbrionI guess I'll have to look for latest working version in my case
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15:03:04linuxstbAh, the first ipod classic dissection photo -
15:03:33scorchei wish they were clearer...
15:03:39B4gderand closer
15:03:50B4gderbut a good start
15:03:51linuxstband showed portalplayer...
15:04:19B4gderdid you compare those big chips with the nano 2nd gen pics?
15:04:23scorchekeep wishing...
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15:05:08linuxstbAnd it's a Toshiba drive -
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15:06:08MikachuZagor: might i suggest `mktemp -d /tmp/rbdev.XXXXXX` ?
15:06:28Mikachuor maybe even use $TMPDIR
15:06:39B4gderthat's the pics of the nano
15:07:01B4gderMikachu: it actually make sense to use a fixed name for the temp dir
15:07:11B4gderto easier go back when it breaks etc
15:07:18Mikachui guess
15:07:21B4gderat least I've done so in the past
15:07:37Mikachu${TMPDIR:-/tmp}/rbdev then? :)
15:07:49B4gderyeah, that works
15:08:27B4gder32 MB ram in the nano
15:08:32B4gder3rd gen
15:10:01linuxstbSo with the CE-ATA interface, no Rockbox targets will take those Toshiba drives...
15:15:18Embrionhi again, I've found a reason of my Rockbox problems
15:15:54linuxstbWhich was?
15:15:58Embrionunfortunately it is Rockbox version build
15:16:13Embrion20070602 works fine
15:16:26linuxstbOK, then you've hit 2) in my list of possible causes.
15:16:31EmbrionI had to manually edit download link to reach it
15:16:49Embrionnow I'll try to find the most recent ver which still works
15:16:50B4gderit "shouldn't" even be available...
15:17:02*linuxstb was also wondering that...
15:17:14B4gderclearly a mirror not using −−delete, as suggested
15:17:54Embrionbut You see, it helped me ;)
15:18:59linuxstbIf you search for "nano 1.3.1" in the bug tracker, you'll find a discussion of this problem, and probably the date the problem first appeared.
15:19:02B4gderI'm just saying you are lucky
15:19:22Embrionso please wait with deleting because I'm looking for most recent which will be one of those that shoul not exist
15:19:27LinusNr13990 seems to be the last working version according to the forum
15:19:36B4gderEmbrion: I deleted that file 2 months ago
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15:19:52B4gderEmbrion: and the download servers are assumed to do so as well
15:19:56EmbrionB4dger: so I'm lucky
15:19:56 Join The-Compiler [0] (
15:20:14B4gderwe only keep about one month backlog
15:20:28Mikachuiirc long ago i tried upping the frequency to 78 from 75 mhz, and my nano only operated properly in the refridgerator
15:20:30EmbrionLinusN: thx, I'll give it a try first
15:20:50Mikachui would not recommend it
15:20:54LinusNEmbrion: try july 25, 26 and then july 27
15:21:07EmbrionLinusN: ok, thx
15:21:45linuxstbMikachu: Well, Rockbox runs at 80MHz on most Nanos now without problems.
15:22:07Mikachuit didn't on mine, and it was quite reproducible when i took it in and out of the fridge
15:22:10linuxstb(and all other ipods without problems afaik)
15:22:21linuxstbMikachu: Other things have been changed, not just the cpu speed I think.
15:22:31LinusNi'd say that "most nanos" is not good enough
15:22:38linuxstbLinusN: Of course.
15:23:07Mikachulinuxstb: i only changed the clock speed that time
15:23:30linuxstbLinusN: Do you think the change that caused the problems to appear should be reverted?
15:24:22LinusNi dunno, the fix was supposed to increase stability...
15:24:26linuxstbMikachu: BTW, hi!
15:24:30Mikachuhello again :)
15:24:49n1sSome user in the ML offered to send a nano with those problems to an interested dev
15:25:05LinusN"Stop the occasional crashes (most often 'undefined instruction') on PP5020 (and PP5022?) targets."
15:25:27n1sLove the new ML links on the frontpage btw
15:30:37Embrionok, I checked those 3 versions
15:30:54Embrion25, 26 july are working and 27 isn't
15:33:41Embrion"no codec" "codec failure"
15:34:40Embrionalso some times it hangs player and some times not
15:35:01Embrionand ends with "undefined instruction at ..."
15:36:21linuxstbYes, the symptoms are familiar...
15:36:42Embrionoh, another nice thing: after those things, checkdisk (chkdsk in XP) reports errors
15:38:38Embrionsomehow i managed to delete .rockbox and no errore reported anymore but earlier I had to fix them before I was able to delete .rockbox and one time even fixing wasn't helping
15:38:49linuxstbEmbrion: The problem is suspected to be the ATA timings - so that could cause both read and write errors...
15:38:53Embrion(= format ipod partition)
15:39:57Embrionlinuxstb: but how did this bug managed to exist so long?
15:40:19linuxstbNone of the Nanos owned by the developers exhibit the issue.
15:40:41linuxstbBut I agree, it's not a nice bug to have...
15:40:57GaloisI just checked my nano (which was last built on 20070707) and it has the playback bug too
15:41:19Embrionso probably it is particular piecec of hardware revision
15:41:41B4gderit doesn't even seem to be that, afaiu
15:42:03 Quit barrywardell ()
15:42:28Embrionso what can it be ?
15:42:31B4gderas people have been comparing that as well
15:42:47B4gderI don't think the common denominator has been established
15:43:31B4gderbut I'm not following this issue closely so I might've missed something
15:43:40Embrionwas the 'bad' code part located?
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15:45:56linuxstbEmbrion: The commit that introduced the issue has been identified. And I don't know the answer to your follow-up question.
15:47:01Embrionlinuxstb: couldn't that piece of code jsut be reverted to original version?
15:47:42LinusNEmbrion: yes, but that piece of code cured a bunch of other equally nasty issues
15:48:02Mikachuhave you tried reverting only the freq bump?
15:48:49linuxstbLinusN: I can't recall any issues on the Nano which that fixed. It was mainly the PP5020 which benefited - fixing another long-standing bug.
15:49:31Embrionmaybe that part of code is only causing my bug when other particular part of code exists
15:49:32LinusNwhich PP model is in the nano?
15:49:53Embrionyou know, the must exist together
15:50:23linuxstbLinusN: The label says 5021, but it's a revision of the 5022 according to the chip id readable by software.
15:50:24Galoisthat's a rather small diff
15:51:04LinusNamiconn should be able to tell what the fix was supposed to do
15:51:37B4gderI wonder what the c200 chip id says
15:51:53B4gderit could be the same as the nano
15:52:08linuxstbIsn't it the same as the e200?
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15:52:20B4gderit uses an external AS3514 even
15:52:58linuxstbInteresting. I thought low_light said he only changed a few things like the button and lcd drivers. I admit I didn't look at his commit though.
15:53:33linuxstbI'm pretty sure it's shown in the debug menu somewhere.
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15:57:24Agm3ntBagder: you mean Hardware info in c200?
15:58:11B4gderit seems it has the same nand interface then as the e200 but it isn't marked as a PP5024 and it doesn't make sense to have the ams chip external if you have a 5024
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15:58:28webguest95noob needs help....
15:58:36linuxstbAgm3nt: Do you have a c200 (with Rockbox) ?
15:58:56Agm3ntB4gder: PP version: PP5022C Est. clock (khz): 3067
15:59:02linuxstbwebguest95: Explain your problem...
15:59:08B4gderAgm3nt: thanks
15:59:28Agm3ntlinuxstb: yes
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16:00:09LDOGhave the 60gb video... installed rockbox, have a couple movies on my pod and the video icon doesn't show up to play my flicks
16:00:33linuxstbRockbox doesn't play the same format videos that the Apple firmware plays
16:00:57linuxstbPlease read at least the Introduction on this page -
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16:10:54FalenAnybody here to help me with a C question?
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16:11:55linuxstbAs long as it's not too far off-topic for #rockbox...
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16:47:48amiconnlinuxstb: The fix mentioned earlier by LinusN increases stability on PP502x targets which use the PP's colour lcd bridge and clock it from pll for best performance.
16:48:17amiconnThat's ipod color, and (after I've discovered with your help what these bits do) H10, and *probably* ipod nano
16:49:26amiconnMikachu: Earlier tests of clocks > 75MHz don't tell anything 'cause before my fixes, we didn't run the PP5022 pll properly (unlike PP502)
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16:50:09GodEateramiconn: so why not the video?
16:50:20amiconnThe video doesn't use that bridge
16:50:33GodEaterbecause of the broadcom ?
16:50:37amiconnThe broadcom chip is hooked up differently
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16:53:41_jzhallo !
16:53:46 Join My_Sic [0] (
16:53:47_jzi talked about it a few days earlier
16:53:57_jzand i've been replied "if you want it, do it yourself" in substance... ;)
16:54:11linuxstbamiconn: What would you need me to do re: the LCD?
16:54:13_jzbut I got here sourcecode of a very fine ncurses BPM detection software
16:54:42_jzthat could inspire a killer BPM detection plugin (the one in the metronome is very approximative and hardly accessible)
16:54:56linuxstb_jz: Main issue will be if it's heavily reliant on floating-point math. If so, it won't be straightforward to port.
16:55:03_jzcoupled with wrriting of the BPM in the id3tag it would be my 100% plugin usage during idle time in public transports :)
16:55:11_jzha good point
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16:56:13_jz bpm = (float)count * 60.0 * CLK_TCK / (float)(tcurr - tstart);
16:56:25linuxstbI assume it's GPL'd (or a compatible license)?
16:56:44_jzwell it's not, but i guess you could possibly contact the author
16:56:48_jzi might do it if you're interested
16:57:08_jzi'm better at talking of legal aspects and communicating than coding :)
16:57:49linuxstbDo you have a link to the source?
16:57:59_jzthe sourcecode was posted on the mixxx mailinglist, as an example of good BPM algorithm
16:58:04_jzi can put it online in one second
16:58:19linuxstbThere's no archive online for that list?
16:59:17_jz for now
16:59:56_jzi talked to a few people into music/DJing of tapping BPM to fill id3 infos of your tracks while idle in the metro or the train, and all of them were enthusiastic about it =)
16:59:58 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
17:00:10amiconnlinuxstb: Nothing. I only said that you helped me understand what the 2 top bits in 0x600060a0 do back then
17:00:16linuxstbHmm, "This program can be distributed, if it's not modified in any kind." isn't very helpful...
17:00:21amiconn(by doing some tests on your ipod color)
17:00:27linuxstbamiconn: Sorry, I misread.
17:00:36_jzlinuxstb: yes that's why i'm proposing to contact the guy
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17:04:23_jzi just sent him an email
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17:05:40_jzlinuxstb: what do you think of the sourcecode ? you think an adaptation would be easy ?
17:06:00_jzwhat about writing in the tags (with the "record" button of the sensa would be perfect =~~)) ?
17:06:36*GodEater tries to work out why you'd code a BPM counter in floats anyway
17:06:45GodEatersurely you can't have a partial beat
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17:07:15amiconnlinuxstb: This fix *might* cause the nano problems, but it's rather unlikely. Would also need experimentation on a nano to rule that out
17:07:28amiconn(and maybe also speed up lcd update on nano)
17:07:29linuxstb_jz: I think I misunderstood what you meant by BPM counter.... You just want to count the number of times you tap a button, and turn that into a BPM measure?
17:08:07_jzthumb BPM detection, but more accurate than what does the metronome, with reset, and fine averaging (and record to id3)
17:08:08linuxstb_jz: Then you don't really need any existing source for that, and floats won't be an issue...
17:08:26_jzi'm not really a coder, you know :)
17:08:33 Quit Embrion ()
17:08:42linuxstb99% of that code is just the UI ;)
17:09:10GodEaterI'd rather have something which worked out the BPM from the music on it's own
17:09:38linuxstbGodEater: That's what I assumed the program would be doing...
17:09:39amiconnGodEater: Can you do make that work on hwcodec?
17:09:55_jzGodEater: automatic BPM detection is often flaky
17:09:55*GodEater looks blank as possible
17:10:10_jzand when you're listening to music idle in the transports you usually have a free thumb :)
17:10:47GodEaterspeak for yourself
17:11:07_jzthat's what i am doing
17:11:18_jzi should have said _I_ usually have a free thumb, sorry ;)
17:12:21n1s_jz: yo can actually tap in a beat in the metronome plugin already so I guess coding what you want, you could re-use a lot of stuff
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17:14:39GodEateryeah, rather than do a whole new plugin, why not fix what you perceive is wrong with the feature in the metronome
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17:15:17_jzn1s: the averaging is bad in the metronome, and you can't reset the counter
17:15:27GodEaterso fix it
17:15:34_jzGodEater: I'm not a coder
17:16:05_jzi know how to code
17:16:11_jzi used to code a little
17:16:23_jzbut usually people around me are much more talented at this than i am
17:16:45 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
17:16:56_jzas i know some other things (like project management, legal aspects, a bit of communication) that can sometimes be useful for software projects :)
17:17:06_jzwell that's for the </mylife> ...
17:17:10GodEaterthe people "around" you here, are busy with their own things
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17:17:50_jzsorry for taking some of your time
17:17:55GodEater <−− dismantled pics
17:18:06_jzwe're a network of interconnected busy people :)
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17:18:36GodEaterpretty dire quality in the pics though
17:19:05linuxstbEnough to confirm it's not PP though.
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17:21:41GodEater <−− better pics
17:21:55GodEaterdefinitely samsung
17:22:42GodEaterheh - that's the flash chip
17:22:49GodEater<−−- dumbass
17:23:47Nimdaeon the other side, there is a chip at top middle, the logo on it is familiar
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17:25:18Nimdaeanyway, i think i noticed an issue with bookmark saving in rockbox
17:25:49Nimdaewhen i save a bookmark, it takes a few seconds, then notifies me the bookmark is saved, and then after it says it's saved, i see the drive activity indicator
17:25:57Nimdaeis it actually telling me it's saved before it's saved?
17:26:27GodEatersingle platter 80GB drive in the new classic.
17:26:39GodEaterGood news for a lot of people wanting to upgrade other players :)
17:26:54n1sGodEater: I'd guess the big square chip with an apple on it and the text "ARM" is the cpu
17:27:15pixelmaGodEater: if you can provide the right adapters, then maybe
17:27:16GodEaterproviding they have ZIF connectors of course...
17:27:30n1sGodEater: those drives use a CE-ATA connector which is incompatible with any current rockbox targets AFAIK
17:27:30GodEatern1s: I'd guess you're right
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17:28:46amiconnGodEater, n1s: Unlike reported yesterday, the connector looks like ZIF, not CE-ATA
17:29:31NimdaeGodEater: i suspected the single platter 80gb drive already, i'm hoping places like ifixit carry it
17:30:02n1samiconn: hmm, and ZIF<->ATA is possible with an afdapter, right?
17:30:06Nimdaen1s: i read somewhere that the 80 gb drive is PATA and the 160 gb drive is CE-ATA
17:30:33n1sNimdae: IMO it would not make sense to use different connectors for them...
17:30:43amiconnCouting pins, it definitely is ZIF
17:30:55amiconnZIF is 40-pin, CE-ATA is either 12 or 18 pin
17:30:59n1ssense for apple, more hw differences etc..
17:31:14amiconnCE-ATA is essentially ATA via MMC protocol
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17:31:40n1samiconn: nice, those drives will probably be pricey though
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17:32:01Nico_Pso are apple making their own chips now ?
17:32:34n1sNico_P: most likely custom samsung chips with apple branding
17:33:03agm3ntlow_light: my fault, .rockbox/firmware.mi4 was 0 size
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17:33:11Nico_Pyeah, that sounds more plausible :)
17:33:11agm3ntlow_light: thanks for help
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17:35:22low_lightamiconn: regarding exception vectors...that's the first thing the c200 bootloader does: p/VN0efD77.html">
17:36:17low_lightbut only saw that in the c200 (pp5022) not the mrobe (pp5020)
17:37:05 Join My_Sic [0] (
17:37:27low_lightagm3nt: glad it's working. please report problems, particularly in the button handling. I know the keymap is not ideal yet.
17:38:00low_lightI'm going to try to enable a sim build for the c200 so people can work out button handling & fix plugins
17:38:16amiconnlow_light: So it puts the vectors into the start of sdram instead of remapping the sdram to 0x0
17:38:29linuxstbLooks very straightforward...
17:38:47linuxstbWould there be an advantage to remapping SDRAM closer to IRAM?
17:38:55linuxstbI mean adjacent...
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17:39:28amiconnlow_light: I don't think fixing problems will be difficult. It requires new graphics due to the odd resolution though, so it's lot of work, but mostly straightforward
17:39:52amiconnlinuxstb: Not really.
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17:40:15amiconn(unless you can manage to get all sdram code within +/- 32MB range of iram code
17:41:23linuxstb_if_ we could remap it to be directly after IRAM, and moved the plugin/codec buffers to the start of SDRAM (as proposed), it would work...
17:42:25amiconnI doubt that you can map the sdram to a start address which is not a multiple of its size
17:43:00amiconnIt could work though if we move everything to the end of dram, and map it before iram
17:43:28linuxstbBut the rockbox binary size is variable, so I can't see that working.
17:43:36amiconnBut then the remap code needs to be aware of sdram size
17:45:19agm3ntlow_light: yes it's not ideal, I have problem in Background Colour menu and Time & Date
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17:45:33krazykitwould someone mind giving me write access on the wiki? my wikiname is JoshDrizin
17:46:29 Join low_light [0] (i=c730180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
17:46:37agm3ntlow_light: also when I'm in resume playback and play audio I have pause working
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17:48:38low_lightI have a feeling I'm not going to be around long :/
17:48:43*linuxstb hands low_light an internet connection
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17:49:24delYsidcould someone with svn access please review the second patch in fs7704 and maybe commit it please?
17:49:25low_lightwork firewall :/
17:50:00GodEaterhome broadband is "fixed"
17:50:03pixelmakrazykit: start editing
17:50:08GodEateralthough by fixed they mean "capped at 1Mb/s"
17:50:16GodEateruntil I can get home and shout at them
17:50:48low_lightamiconn: when the c200 OF starts it does this...p/yOsXx247.html...but"> haven't seen where it re-enable those exception vectors
17:52:00amiconnThe familiar ram remapping. All PP502x firmware seem to do the same
17:52:16low_lightagm3nt: yeah, I also found that the buttons weren't handled well on those screens.
17:53:47low_lightThere's still some work to do on the buttons...proper init and enabling interrupts
17:55:24Mikachuamiconn: aha, okay
17:56:11low_lightI want to get dual boot working in some way because otherwise it's a pain to update the c200 in it's current state
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18:16:22krazykitpixelma, thanks :D
18:18:38krazykitoh, updating the plugins page is gonna be a pain
18:19:37pixelmayou mean PluginIndex?
18:20:15linuxstbkrazykit: View the "raw text" of that page...
18:20:24krazykityeah, i did
18:20:40pixelmaif you want to update the table you don't do it there, you need to add the checkmarks at the end of the subpages
18:20:51krazykityes, that's why it's a pain ;)
18:21:24krazykitthough it makes sense to do it that way, i suppose.
18:21:36pixelmahave fun ;) *remembers to having done that for the M5 myself*
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18:21:56pixelmawithout "to"
18:23:00 Quit agm3nt ()
18:23:10pondlifeNico_P: Any new (since mid-Aug) playback code I should be looking at?
18:23:22 Quit thegeek (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
18:23:34Nico_Ppondlife: nothing more recent than what's on the public git repos
18:23:58Nico_Ppondlife: I've been working on some resits... I learned today that I passed them :)
18:24:12linuxstbWhy aren't you in the pub?
18:24:20pondlifeMaybe he is?
18:24:27linuxstbI hope not...
18:25:03Nico_PI'm not in the pub, no
18:25:17Nico_PI have some celebration planned though :)
18:25:22linuxstbBut yes, congratulations. :)
18:25:33Nico_Pthanks :) Now I'll have time for MoB
18:33:41krazykitso editing the pages for the plugins to add a new target, would that be a minor change? it's not really changing the body of the text
18:36:22amiconnpreglow: I've seen that offer (also in my irc backlog), but he's in the us...
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18:38:09pondlifeamiconn: I'm sure the Rockbox fund could pay the postage.
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18:38:30amiconnpostage isn't the problem
18:38:37*amiconn is afraid of customs issues
18:39:08pondlifeReally? It's a gift, isn't it?
18:39:19amiconnn1s: Afaik 'codepages' is needed for all targets...
18:39:38pondlifeThen you "give" it back later. No money changes hands.
18:39:49amiconnAh, mn, it's just duplicate cleanup
18:41:01n1samiconn: btw I have a change to configure that turns off the "initialized field overwritten" warning for gcc >= 4.2 do you think it's a good idea to commit?
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18:42:00amiconnn1s: This warning makes *some* sense, because it would show an unintended douplicate initialisation
18:42:37amiconnMaybe the gcc manual tells how to suppress this warning when the duplication is intended
18:44:20n1sI'm not sure exactly what the gcc manual means but this is what it says "Warn if an initialized field without side effects is overridden when using designated initializers" it's for the -Woverride-init option which is included in -W
18:44:32n1sI simply added -Wno-override-init
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18:46:51krazykitpixelma, when you added targets to the plugins page, is there anything special to do to the PluginIndex to make it update?
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18:50:36amiconnHmm, seems that you can't specify the duplication is intended. So do we want to disable this warning completely?
18:52:05pixelmakrazykit: no, if you don't see it yourself in the PluginIndex first , press "refresh cash" - I can see your edits by the way
18:52:31pixelmaehh... cashe... ;)
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18:53:34n1samiconn: IMHO it's not nice to have 50-odd warnings popping up semi-randomly as it might hide other warnings
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18:58:06krazykitah, ok. just wanted to make sure i was doing it right the first time around.
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18:59:02n1shmm, -Wunreachable-code is actually quite interesting
18:59:30linuxstbamiconn: Do you have a clue what DEV_TIMING1 does on PP502x? One of the first things the Apple bootloader does on my Color is write 0x303 to it (on CPU only, not COP).
19:00:09 Quit thegeek_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
19:00:34linuxstbThat's immediately after it writes 0xe000 to 0x7000008c. That register is only used in Rockbox on the E200 - as part of the "ata" init.
19:13:13amiconnIt's some kind of timing, but I don't know what for. 0x00000303 is the values all ipods use for 24MHz. I found the formula, and it's also correct for 30MHz
19:13:32amiconnHowever, both H10 and sansa seem to use slightly different values in their OFs
19:13:35 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
19:14:21amiconn...and those also set bits 4 and 12 somewhere, and properly mask bit 0..3 and 8..1 when changing the timing
19:14:29amiconnerm, 8..11
19:15:28 Join edistar [0] (
19:15:41edistarcheers! does rockbox support the radio remote of the ipod?
19:16:16linuxstbamiconn: OK, thanks...
19:16:30linuxstbedistar: Rockbox doesn't communicate with any of the proprietory ipod accessories.
19:17:04linuxstbedistar: This page contains all the info people have contributed about compatibility -
19:18:12 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
19:24:03 Quit kugel_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:30:03*Nico_P has been reading talk about eye candy in rockbox in today's log
19:30:23Nico_Ppreglow: what OF were you in ?
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19:41:03 Quit pondlife ("disconnected has pondlife")
19:42:03Zagorhow silly isn't this?
19:43:14Zagorand why the heck are they using a proprietary usb slot? it's three times the size of a normal mini-b slot...
19:43:33krazykitso if you lose your cable, you have to shell out however much for a new one
19:44:11n1sZagor: what do you think about disabling the "initialized field overwritten" warnings for gcc >= 4.2 ?
19:44:34Zagoryeah probably. although there's 20-25 pins in that connector, so perhaps they were/are thinking of making some more accessories for it
19:45:46Zagorn1s: looking
19:46:16n1sZagor: I have a ready patch for configure, just wondering what you think about it
19:46:42Zagoryeah, I just want to look at when the warning occurs and what impact it might have to remove it
19:46:51n1syes sure
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19:48:49Zagorif you try to assign that in code, the compiler will barf right?
19:49:12ZagorI mean assign it runtime
19:50:11n1sI think so it is 'const' stuff
19:52:39Zagorand we really don't have any other way to do what we do, that doesn't add more code. so I think it's ok to remove that warning.
19:54:16n1sZagor: ok, thanks for looking
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20:00:47desowincan #6494 be closed as we have usb stack?
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20:23:01Gruven98hey peeps... can someone help me with video function of rockbox?
20:23:53linuxstbJust ask, I'm sure someone will try if they can.
20:24:40Gruven98well, i've got a bunch of video files on my ipod and a couple of movies. i installed rockbox and for some reason the only video file that's showing up is a music video
20:24:57 Join edistar [0] (
20:25:15Gruven98i download the media coder and tried testing one to redo and it's still not showing up on the list
20:25:24edistarthis is frustrating^^ I have mounted my ipod on /media/ipod and ./ipodpatcher can't find it
20:25:31edistardoes it need to be umounted?
20:25:36linuxstbGruven98: Have you read this page, especially the introduction?
20:26:00linuxstbedistar: No, you don't need to mount it. Are you running ipodpatcher as root?
20:26:19edistarlinuxstb: yes
20:26:23Gruven98yeah, i read that part... so i guess i have to convert everything to mpeg1 or 2
20:26:27linuxstbedistar: Also, does your ipod still work - i.e. does the Apple firmware boot?
20:26:32Gruven98i think everything is in 4 right now
20:26:45edistarlinuxstb: yes, it says do not disconnect
20:26:50edistarso it's still running, right?
20:27:14linuxstbedistar: That could either be the emergency disk mode in flash, or the normal Apple firmware.
20:27:47edistarlinuxstb: how do I see what it is?
20:28:05edistaroh, it tells me to restore my ipod
20:28:14edistarlinuxstb: so, what do I do now? ;)
20:28:22edistarI tried to replace the firmware with dd
20:28:23linuxstbI'll give you one guess...
20:29:12pixelmaGruven98: Rockbox doesn't play mp4 files so you would need to convert them, but if you have an Ipod Video you will probably have more fun with just watching video in the Apple firmware
20:29:55Gruven98i didn't get through the entire manual, but you can dual boot, right?
20:30:03edistarlinuxstb: how do I know which sdx to use?
20:31:16pixelmaGruven98: yes, flick the hold switch to on as soon as your Ipod boots
20:32:08linuxstbedistar: If you've mounted it on /media/ipod, then just type "mount", and it will tell you. e.g. if /dev/sda2 is mounted there, the device is /dev/sda
20:32:36Gruven98whoa... that kicks butt... thank you... i guess i can enjoy the best of both worlds for now.....
20:32:37edistarlinuxstb: thx
20:34:38edistarlinuxstb: I think I deleted all the partitions on my ipod.. do you perhaps know how big the 2 partitions have to be?
20:36:29edistarsomehow I have completely ruined my ipod :P I need to start from the beginning..
20:37:06linuxstbedistar: Which ipod do you have?
20:37:24edistarlinuxstb: nano
20:37:41linuxstb1GB or 1st generation?
20:37:52edistar1st generation
20:37:55linuxstbWhat size?
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20:38:35linuxstbThen just follow step 1) in the page I linked you to - there is a partition table (MBR) for your ipod there.
20:38:42edistarI downloaded the mbr thing
20:38:52edistarthen I dd it over to /dev/sdd
20:38:56edistaris that right?
20:39:02linuxstbIf your ipod is /dev/sdd, then yes.
20:39:18linuxstbNow remove your ipod, then reinsert it, and carry on with those steps.
20:39:20low_lightwhat's the policy on ui images for the sim? can I rip on from the sandisk site?
20:39:22edistarwell, my hdd is sda, and parted tells me that sdb and sdc are not there
20:39:30linuxstblow_light: Nope.
20:39:55low_lightscan it then?
20:40:06linuxstblow_light: Yes, I think they're all scans of dev's devices.
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20:41:17edistarlinuxstb: it mkfs.vfat tells me that there is no such file or dir /dev/sdd2
20:41:33linuxstbDid you unconnect your ipod, and then reconnect it?
20:41:37edistarlinuxstb: yes
20:41:40*low_light heads to scanner
20:41:57linuxstbedistar: Can you do "fdisk -l /dev/sdd" and then copy the output to ?
20:42:02 Quit low_light (Client Quit)
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20:42:49edistarlinuxstb: p/aNnTwdRw">
20:43:03edistarparted tells me there is a partition on /dev/sdd
20:44:01edistarlinuxstb: p/aZA2CKZGrb">
20:44:09edistarI did it again, the dd mbr
20:44:54edistarlinuxstb: the dd Firmware tells me that I don't have enough space
20:46:32edistarlinuxstb: now it seems to copy something
20:46:53edistarlinuxstb: even formatting /dev/sdd2
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20:47:40edistarcool, never had a loading sign
20:48:08amiconnStill 4 warnings remaining. And the 'incompatible pointer' warning seems to be due to a gcc bug.
20:48:29pixelmaZagor: does your c200 have a radio? The nice site you linked to earlier says that radio models aren't availavble in Europe but a german online shop sells them with radio...
20:49:16 Join kugel [0] (
20:49:24Zagorpixelma: no I chose the one without radio. but it is available with radio in sweden too.
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20:49:33linuxstbedistar: The output of fdisk -l looks perfect - the partition layout is correct.
20:49:40pixelmaah, thanks
20:49:56edistarlinuxstb: thx :)
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20:50:41nearnare any of you guys at the confrence?
20:51:06desowinwhat conference?
20:51:40linuxstbThere's a Rockbox conference and no-one told me?
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20:52:33amiconnZagor: Is there a faster way to check which build server did which build, other than clicking through all (relevant) builds?
20:52:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:52:53Zagornot that I know. what is the case?
20:53:39amiconnSometimes I want to know which build server did which build, in order to check whether warnings are just due to specific gcc versions
20:53:53amiconn(mainly affects sims as the target gcc versions don't vary as much)
20:54:59linuxstbMaybe some kind of summary of the errors on a single page?
20:55:22linuxstb(linked to from the score?)
20:56:13amiconnThere's already the build server summary, but that only lists a buch of build times per server
20:56:36linuxstbAh, so a score/server column could be added?
20:58:07Zagora summary list of server/versios/errors would probably be good
20:58:08amiconnI could imagine a tooltip on the numbers in the main build table, showing the build server name and the gcc version
20:58:26ZagorI'll dump that in Bagder's lap. he's more familiar with the build stats scripts.
20:59:06amiconnE.g. in the latest run, on the H120 sim build it would show " host-gcc 4.2.1"
20:59:38amiconn...and on e.g. M5 bootloader " m68k-elf-gcc 3.4.6"
20:59:55Zagorthat's a good idea
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21:00:39*amiconn woul dalso like to understand the oscillating build sizes...
21:00:56edistarlinuxstb: where do I have to copy .rockbox? sdd2 or sdd1?
21:01:17linuxstbYes, sdd2. That's the only one with a filesystem. sdd1 is just the firmware partition.
21:01:26n1samiconn: maybe compilers run on different host arch?
21:01:58linuxstbAre the maps anywhere for the current builds?
21:02:02amiconnn1s: Possibly, but I would like to see that theory verified. And if it's that, it's a gcc bug
21:03:03edistarlinuxstb: even ipodpatcher find my ipod :)
21:03:24amiconnLooks like it only affects SH1 and arm, never coldfire
21:03:43amiconnAnd the former use gcc 4.0.3 while the latter still uses 3.4.6
21:04:31n1sprobably 4.0 bug then, btw the logs don't tell which host arch is used
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21:07:04edistarwhen I go in plugins and games it keeps telling me incompatible model, is there anything that works with the ipod nano?
21:07:11linuxstbMaybe a few of us could build something from current SVN and compare the maps?
21:07:27n1shmm, for the 00:24->06:49 ipod video builds did the green delta ones and did the red delta ones...
21:07:35linuxstbedistar: That normally means your "rockbox.ipod" is from a different to the plugins
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21:07:57edistarlinuxstb: I downloaded the wrong one?
21:07:59Zagorwhat's really strange is that the size changes even when the very same server builds it..
21:08:25Zagor07:18 and 11:09 were both built by
21:08:52Zagormeh, of course. i'm silly.
21:08:57Zagorthose two are the same size :)
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21:09:32Zagorcompiler version isn't going to be enough to track down the size oscillation though
21:09:39amiconnZagor: Do we know the architecture for each build server?
21:09:52linuxstbedistar: No, it means you had (for example) an old copy of the plugins and a new version of rockbox.ipod. But if you've just freshly formatted, that sounds unlikely.
21:10:06edistarlinuxstb: hm
21:10:09ZagorI don't, at least. maybe bagder does.
21:10:14amiconnWe could make the build script output the result of uname -a
21:10:18 Quit Chairman_Wow (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:10:18linuxstbedistar: Ah sorry, I misread. I'm not sure how you could get "incompatible model"...
21:10:30linuxstbedistar: I was talking about an "incompatible version" error
21:10:40edistarlinuxstb: yes
21:10:56Zagordoes anyone know if the e200 sansapatcher works for c200?
21:11:05linuxstbNo, it doesn't.
21:11:20linuxstbDo you have a c200?
21:11:45edistarlinuxstb: but what to do?
21:11:53linuxstbZagor: Can you pastebin the output of "fdisk -l" ?
21:13:23linuxstbedistar: Delete your existing .rockbox folder and the rockbox.ipod file, download a fresh zip file, and then install it by typing "unzip -d /media/ipod/"
21:13:36edistardoes rockbox recognize files on the ipod? or do I have to import them in the usual ipod way?
21:13:57linuxstbedistar: Rockbox has a file browser, so you can just put them anywhere and play them.
21:15:24linuxstbZagor: Yes, that's similar to the e200. If you can give me a dump of the second partition, I'll try and look into getting sansapatcher working.
21:16:19edistarlinuxstb: thats done, now reboot the ipod?
21:16:21edistaror just unplug
21:16:24amiconnFAT16... makes sense for an mp3 player
21:16:27edistaror umount first?
21:16:32kugelfucking shit
21:16:33linuxstbedistar: Always unmount first...
21:16:50edistarok, unmounted
21:17:09kugelthis dfkt from the ABi forums banned me forever, because i don't like how his winamp looks like
21:17:24edistarlinuxstb: works
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21:18:17edistarpong is just really cool!
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21:18:55Genre9mp3amiconn: regarding ZIF-IDE connector, I've found this:
21:20:12edistaris rockbox written from scratch?
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21:20:18Zagoredistar: yes
21:21:03linuxstbZagor: Thanks. After a quick look, it seems to be an identical format to the e200 firmware partition, so sansapatcher should be relatively easy to adapt.
21:21:31n1sGenre9mp3: haha, he links to mistic river and calls it "The english rockbox forum" :-D
21:21:33ZagorI wonder if the c200 firmware supports fat32...
21:21:53linuxstbI'm pretty sure the e200 does
21:22:12n1sedistar: it does contain lots of imported code in plugins and codecs though
21:22:24linuxstbIIIRC, the first versions of Rockbox on the e200 were fat32 only, then fat16 was enabled later.
21:22:46Zagoryes but the e200 is harddisk-based. c200 is much smaller and hence doesn't "need" fat32
21:22:47edistarn1s: okey
21:23:05linuxstbThe e200 is flash as well.
21:23:12Zagoroh, my bad
21:23:20 Quit kugel (Nick collision from services.)
21:23:22n1sbut I guess you didn't think that the doom plugin was written from scratch ;-)
21:23:28 Quit kugel_ (Client Quit)
21:23:36pixelmabut a bit big for a flash player IMO
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21:24:45Zagorpixelma: indeed. the size was what fooled me.
21:25:55amiconnZagor: If the OF doesn't claim to support sdhc, it probably doesn't support fat32 either. But if that's really true, it would be less advanced than the archos Ondio firmware
21:26:19amiconn(which dates back to 2003, where MMCs were _far_ from breaking the FAT16 limit)
21:26:24Genre9mp3n1s: hopefully, the lst page on that pdf is more... accurate ;)
21:26:37amiconnI just tried it Archos Ondio OF handles my 4GB MMC
21:27:01linuxstbIs the Archos firmware for the Ondio similar to the other SH devices?
21:27:04amiconn(although it doesn't handle writing, but that's a different problem)
21:27:17*linuxstb has long since forgotton what the Archos firmware was like
21:27:19amiconnlinuxstb: The core might be similar, but the UI is different
21:27:44amiconnSimpler.... and somewhat better than the recorder OF
21:28:13amiconn(but it doesn't come anywhere near rockbox)
21:28:42edistarlinuxstb: please help me ;) I need user rights to access /media/ipod, and somehow it doesn't work, how do I do it?
21:29:03linuxstbedistar: What changed? I thought it was all working?
21:29:19edistarlinuxstb: yes, I can access my ipod as root, files etc
21:29:21edistarbut not as user
21:29:25edistarI need to set my rights
21:29:37Zagora thread in says there are two fw versions: one that supports msc but not sdhc and one that support sdhc but not msc... mine supports msc.
21:29:47amiconnHmm, the OF can browse the 4GB MMC fine, but playback doesn't work
21:29:58linuxstbZagor: It doesn't mention a third fw that supports both?
21:30:18linuxstbI meant Rockbox ;)
21:30:25Zagorah :)
21:31:32linuxstbedistar: That's getting off-topic for this channel - join #rockbox-community
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21:32:39amiconnIt shows "Starting song <xyz>" for a while, then crashes (turns off)
21:32:45 Part rogelio ("Kopete 0.12.4 :")
21:33:13amiconnThat reminds me...
21:33:21*amiconn should write that email to Microdia
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21:42:48pixelmaasking about those 8GB MMCs?
21:44:17amiconn8GB MMCs were announced by Samsung more than a year ago, and Microdia also lists them on their site more than half a year iirc
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21:57:08BobShieldhow does one get a sansa e200 out of manufacturing mode?
21:57:24linuxstbHold power for 10-15 seconds is a hardware shutdown.
21:57:34dionoeahow do the c200 and e200 compare ? (in terms of battery life mainly)
21:57:52dionoeathey use the same pp soc right?
21:58:05amiconnno, not exactly
21:58:36amiconnC200 uses PP5022 + external AS3514 dac, E200 uses PP5024 which has the AS3514 built in
21:59:18dionoeaok, thanks.
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22:29:30amiconnpixelma: ping
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22:36:05MarslyrHey, I had a question and was wondering if someone could answer it for me?
22:37:14pixelmanot until we know the question... ;)
22:37:28eigma - Don't "ask to ask"
22:37:39MarslyrWell, I just discovered rockbox, and just discoved that rule ;-)
22:38:07MarslyrAnd I was wondering, if I install it on a 1stgen nano, is there a way to get my nano back to normal, if I wish?
22:38:45dionoeaYou can always uninstall
22:38:56dionoeaalthough no one would do that after trying rockbox :)
22:39:12MarslyrBut in the online quickstart guide thingy, it says that it erases the ipod's firmware?
22:39:31LloreanWhich quickstart says this?
22:39:46Marslyrsection 2.2.1
22:40:08Marslyrunder the boot loader part
22:40:20LloreanMarslyr: It means replace as "runs instead" rather than "removes"
22:40:29MarslyrOh, okay then
22:41:21MarslyrAlright in that case i'll follow the instuctions and see if i can get it to work!
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22:43:14MarslyrSo to go back to normal I just Run the ipodpatcher and press 'u'?
22:44:14 Quit low_light (Client Quit)
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22:46:17*Marslyr is sheepish
22:46:23MarslyrI've got anouther question
22:46:35MarslyrHow do I install the fonts?
22:46:45dionoeayou unzip the zip :)
22:46:53dionoeaor you run rb util to do every thing in a GUI
22:47:09Marslyrrb util?
22:47:10dionoeasee for binaries
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22:51:17webguest50Where does rockbox store saved pictures you make with rockpaint.
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22:56:09pixelmaprobably where you tell it to (I guess you'll get the virtual keyboard where you have to enter the path...) note: I have never used Rockpint
22:56:40*pixelma curses keyboard and typo classes
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23:00:33MarslyrWoot I got it to work!
23:01:34webguest50It never asks
23:02:23webguest50pixelma; it dosent really ask you
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23:08:31peturI assume it is known that playback crashes in the sim - or is that just my pc? Running ubuntu btw...
23:09:10amiconn64 bit?
23:10:33peturit starts 2 seconds and just closes
23:10:34n1splayback works in sim here (64 bit)
23:10:43amiconnn1s: Try mp3...
23:10:55amiconnGah, /me should just go ahead and fix that libmad isse; shouldn't be that hard
23:11:03n1samiconn: I know :-) or skipping a track most of the time
23:11:14peturoh, so it isn't just me?
23:11:32 Quit darkless ("Leaving")
23:11:46n1spetur: mp3 crashes 100% on 64 bit sims
23:11:49amiconnpetur: I didn't see playback crash in the sim (non-64bit) for a long time - but then I really don't use the sim often
23:12:10peturme neither but now it does here...
23:12:16n1sbut for example vorbis works fine, except skipping
23:12:35amiconnAll codecs except libmad work afaik
23:13:37n1sI'm pretty sure track changing/skipping used to work though...
23:13:55n1snow it reliably segfaults... :-/
23:14:53 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:15:21Zagorany comments on this before I make it the new front page?
23:16:01BagderZagor: the links to recent.shtml could be #anchored to the right spot
23:16:20n1sLooks nice, tho the text in the tables is very small
23:16:37ZagorBagder: I considered that, but since all tables are visible from the top of the page it feels unneccessary
23:16:55Bagderonly if you have a large browser window...
23:17:26peturI don like the fact that the logo and first frame are centered and the tables left-aligned
23:17:47BagderI miss the link to the changelog, but I don't know exactly where it fits...
23:17:47amiconnThe layoult looks a bit strange, with the top table centered and the others jagging their way down...
23:17:59 Join freqmod [0] (
23:18:28Zagoruncentered (now) doesn't look terribly good either imho...
23:18:31amiconnAnd the sponsor table isn't visible even on my 1400x1050
23:18:31pixelmait looks a bit chaotic
23:18:53peturBagder: Subversion?
23:19:09peturamiconn: it looks ok on my 1920x1200 :p
23:19:40Zagoreverything can't fit on the first page of a 1024x768 browser window. not if the font has to be readable...
23:19:41peturbut I agree the sponsers should make it in the visible part when opening the page
23:20:19 Join linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
23:20:30Zagorwell they do if your window is >800px high
23:20:57Zagorthe top of it, I mean
23:21:32Zagoranyway, I don't feel the sponsor list is the most important on the page. and I doubt any of them are going to be upset about not being on the top of the page
23:21:47*linuxstb_ doesn't even see the SVN or Wiki tables on his ibook
23:21:50Zagorhaving them on the right like before really cramps the width of the page
23:22:26Zagorlinuxstb_: I thought those things had decent resolution?
23:22:29Genre9mp3The SVN table is very important to be that small...
23:22:30*petur shows off his 1920x1200 notebook to linuxstb_
23:22:41Genre9mp3no commit messages??? argh
23:22:56ZagorGenre9mp3: click the header
23:23:22Zagorthis is an overview page. having all verbose dev info on the front page was never a good idea.
23:23:25 Quit billytwowilly (Remote closed the connection)
23:23:42Genre9mp3Zagor: oh well...
23:24:14Genre9mp3I'm just used to it I suppose
23:24:34BagderI think we're all a bit too accustomed to the current look... :-)
23:24:53n1sZagor: IMHO it would look better if the four small tables were the same size
23:25:10Zagorn1s: yeah, I'll try that
23:25:16Bagderyes I think I agree with that
23:25:39BagderZagor: move back a "news" item so that there are 5 lines there as well
23:27:14*amiconn thinks it would look better if the table in each "stacked pair" had equal width
23:27:14pixelmathe sponsors table looks a bit big in comparison to the others and to older version
23:27:33 Quit Marslyr ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
23:27:50 Join MikeInsideTheBox [0] (i=63f62bba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:28:06Bagderwell, it is moved down a bit and now uses normal sized font so I don't think it hurts much
23:28:55amiconnHmm, and the links to the "recent" page should really use acnchors
23:29:50linuxstb_Couldn't we split the "recent" page? e.g. have a separate svn page, put the recent mail threads on the mail page, leave the recent wiki activity where it is...
23:30:11*linuxstb_ guesses that wasn't the point....
23:30:30 Quit MikeInsideTheBox (Client Quit)
23:30:59Zagorlinuxstb_: any particular reason having it on a single page is a bad idea?
23:31:21BagderI like one huge page with the recent events
23:31:43Bagderpossibly the svn stuff should be on top
23:32:03linuxstb_Zagor: I think it's just that I'm not interested in everything. If I want mail, I read the lists, if I want wiki things, I read the wiki...
23:32:25linuxstb_I agree with Bagder that svn stuff would be nicer at the top.
23:33:18amiconnI think that frontpage is a bit empty now
23:33:30Zagorhehe, fixing the width on the front page screwed it up on the recent page. I need to split up the css classes.
23:33:54 Quit seablue ("life, death, life, death")
23:34:24Zagorempty? I'd say it's still awfully crowded for a front page
23:34:35amiconnThe old one looks better especially on larger screens
23:34:57Bagderlarger browser windows you mean? :-)
23:35:09amiconnNow there are large areas of just light blue
23:35:23BagderI have a large screen, but the front page looks fine for me
23:35:40 Join [aB]DaRkNeSS|sch [0] (
23:35:42 Quit Nintidiot ("CGI:IRC")
23:35:44[aB]DaRkNeSS|schwuddup wuddup
23:35:45Bagder... since my browser covers only ~half (or less) of my screen
23:35:46 Nick [aB]DaRkNeSS|sch is now known as [aB]DaRkNeSS (
23:35:48amiconnOur old page is in fact rather similar to the ipl frontpage
23:36:01Zagoramiconn: so filling it with with the massively huge svn is _better_ ?
23:36:04amiconnMy browser is always fullscreen (minus taskbar of course)
23:36:33BagderI prefer the new version
23:36:49Bagderwe should learn to never listen to amiconn when we discuss ui or layout ;-)
23:36:52amiconnZagor: I didn't say that
23:36:59linuxstb_I think even users appreciate the svn table on the front page. Or they just ignore it...
23:37:26amiconnBut the overview text at the top would imo look better as floating text like before
23:37:41BagderI disagree
23:37:44amiconnNow everything is ...boxed...
23:38:07BagderI think a major reason people didn't find the supported targets before was because the text "blended" too much with everything else
23:38:18n1s... Rocked (couldn't resist) :D
23:38:32peturI have to agree there's a lot of unused space on the new page
23:38:40amiconn...and the sponsors aren't visible while they would easily fit at the right here, wthout pushing anything downwards
23:39:00Bagdereasily fit if you have the widest browser in the world, sure
23:39:24Bagderlike a 1400 wide one...
23:39:34peturthe new page does fit better on a smaller display
23:39:34Zagorthey only fit when you're browsing full-screen. only windows people do that :)
23:39:48Zagorjust kidding
23:40:13Zagorhere's the text unboxed. it looks rather lost to me.
23:40:28amiconnIt's not true that the new page fits better on a smaller display
23:40:29Zagori agree having everything in boxes is rather unimaginative, but this isn't better imho
23:40:39Bagderamiconn: it's true for me
23:40:46amiconnThe text in the top table doesn't wrap, so you have to scroll sideways .... urgh
23:41:03peturthat's.... very small
23:41:13Bagderamiconn: only if you have a _very_ narrow window
23:41:22amiconnpetur: Just half screen width...
23:41:30 Join billytwowilly [0] ( Bagder seems to prefer
23:41:42peturaround 35% here...
23:41:56ZagorI get a scrollbar at ~650 pixels width. and it's the sponsor images that cause it.
23:42:23amiconnNow I don't get a scrollbar as the top box isn't there
23:42:26BagderI don't have a problem with scrolling to see the sponsors in that case
23:42:39Bagderah right
23:42:55amiconnNow it's even worse...
23:42:57Zagorbox is back, still no scrollbar until the sponsor images make one
23:43:00pixelmahmm... btw. why are all the tables fixed width (in pixels)? If it was percent it would adapt easier to different window wisths
23:43:15amiconnLines don't wrap, but I don't get a scrollbar, so the text at theright is unreadable
23:43:16Zagorpixelma: they are not in pixels
23:43:27Zagoramiconn: what kind of weird browser are you using???
23:43:29Bagderthey stretch
23:43:35amiconnZagor: Firefox 1.0.6
23:43:51Bagderthe text on the right don't wrap when the sponsor box "breaks" the right margin
23:44:01Zagorwell so do I, and the box text surely wraps for me
23:44:15BagderZagor: not anymore when the sponsor box is wider than the window
23:44:19pixelmaah... is it based on the longest line, or what=?
23:44:29Zagorof course, but that has nothing to do with the box text
23:44:54Zagoras soon as browsers add a scroll bar they stop scaling the page
23:44:57Bagderno, just that when you shrink it a lot, you need to scroll horizontally to read the text, nothing else
23:44:59amiconnIf I make the window smaller so it would have to add the horizontal scrollbar, it doesn't do so, but _removes_ the vertical scrollbar too instead??
23:45:23BagderI don't get that
23:45:36amiconnI do, 100% reproducable
23:45:43pixelmaZagor: so the could look differently every time the content changes?
23:45:44amiconnAt about 800px window width
23:45:58Bagderbut I'll admit that firefox on windows vs linux is oddly different at times, even at the same version
23:46:00 Join DerPapst [0] (
23:46:11DerPapsthi :)
23:46:41Zagorpixelma: yes. the boxes are one table each, with 100% width. and they are all contained in a big box without width setting. so they scale until they hit the outer box. which sizes itself after the widest box.
23:46:46pixelmaZagor: like it does in the current frontpage... didn't like that either I have to say
23:47:08DerPapstamiconn: in case you haven't noticed it yet... it's time for an Oops-Commit ;) In deutsch.lang check the voice string for "Error accessing playlist control file".
23:47:16Zagorwell the only option is to always expand, which will look very silly full-screen imho
23:47:23amiconnOn linux that weird effect doesn't happen, but the top table also doesn't wrap its contents
23:47:44Bagderamiconn: it does all the way until the sponsor box no longer fits
23:47:49amiconnMore specifically, the <ul> does wrap its items, but the top line doesn't
23:48:03Zagordoes here
23:48:07Bagderdoes here
23:48:07amiconnAh, so it's the sponsor box...
23:48:30 Quit tchan (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:48:39Bagdersomehow fixing the sponsors will make the page nicer when done narrow
23:49:12ZagorI can set them to crop instead of scroll, iirc
23:49:27 Quit Ebert ()
23:49:44pixelmaDerPapst: no wonder the mistake is in that word ;)
23:49:53Zagorlike the top-right logo here:
23:50:28amiconnHmm, horizontal scrollbar in FF/Windows seems to be broken
23:50:28Bagderyes, it is probably better that way
23:50:44amiconnIt gets added on other sites (e.g. ipl), but doesn't scale properly
23:54:36Zagorimage cropping adds a few pixels more shrinkability, but then the boxes become unwrappable anyway (single word/line)
23:55:23amiconnFF on Windows does strange things...
23:55:51amiconnOn our current frontpage, narrowing the window makes the sponsor box partially overlap the svn table
23:56:06*DerPapst just noticed that too
23:56:13DerPapstwith ff 1.5
23:56:22amiconnDoesn't happen on linux
23:56:23Zagoryes, it's because it's an align=right placement. they do that.
23:56:40amiconnMaybe that's due to its different name, Iceweasel? ;)
23:56:48BagderZagor: it can be prevented though
23:56:49pixelmahuh... doesn't happen here
23:57:00Bagderthe align right effect I mean
23:57:02*DerPapst goes to bed.
23:57:03pixelmanow it does
23:57:07DerPapstgood night everyone
23:57:13 Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!")
23:57:50pixelmaseems to depend on what dimension was too short first
23:57:55peturit _does_ happen here with ff on ubuntu
23:58:34*amiconn just noticed the somewhat weird combination of doing all formatting in css but still having a doctype of html 4.0 transitional...

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