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#rockbox log for 2007-10-05

00:01:32linuxstbBut it probably should refuse to install the embedded bootloaders when it knows they are Rockbox bootloaders.
00:01:40linuxstbAlthough I don't think it's really an issue.
00:02:33bluebrotherif it asks for confirmation I think this isn't an issue.
00:03:07 Quit homielowe (Remote closed the connection)
00:05:03linuxstbbluebrother: BTW, what does rbutil do when it detects a macpod
00:05:19bluebrotherit displays the output of ipodpatcher.
00:05:30bluebrotherbut I wasn't able testing that ...
00:06:26linuxstbYou mean the message in ipodpatcher/main.c ?
00:06:56bluebrotherlet me check −− Domonoky did the actual bootloader installation implementation
00:07:12 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
00:07:28linuxstbIt should basically say that Rockbox doesn't work on a macpod, and point users to the IpodConverstionToFAT32 wiki page
00:08:19bluebrotherit checks for the macpod value in struct ipod
00:08:39 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
00:09:13bluebrotherand prints a warning that it needs to get converted.
00:09:28bluebrotherhmm, looks like the actual installation is still performed. Not good ...
00:10:36 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
00:10:40 Join XavierGr [0] (
00:11:08linuxstbbluebrother: Does the warning link to the wiki page?
00:11:34bluebrotherno, but I'm adding a link
00:14:18 Quit hcs ("Leaving.")
00:15:41bluebrotherhmm, I should think about some way to add some kind of help system.
00:17:57 Join Klevi [0] (
00:20:15 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
00:20:46XavierGrSlasheri: Ping?
00:22:18IsolinearDoes having the volume in Rockbox constantly set to a high level vs. a low level affect battery life at all?
00:22:51Isolineari.e. Does the amp draw a variable amount of power and if so, does it really matter?
00:29:59 Join ddalton [0] (
00:32:54 Join iamben [0] (n=ben@
00:33:20 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
00:33:53 Quit derek_ ()
00:35:12sin613i've had two attempts at battery benchmarking for the iaudio x5 yield no battery_bench.txt file. any ideas?
00:37:47XavierGrsin613: are you sure? what did you do to run the test?
00:38:06XavierGrthe battery_bench.txt file should be created in your root as soon as the plugin starts
00:43:02 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:44:20 Join My_Sic [0] (
00:50:00 Join mertd [0] (
00:50:36 Join Entasis [0] (
00:51:00 Part mertd
00:54:07 Quit ender` (" In the west, Eastern religions are exotic and have strange powers. In the east, Western religions are exotic and have strang)
00:54:09ddaltonXavierGr: do you know how to do buttons?
00:55:15ddaltonI just don't know what long play is called in the keymap file
00:55:25 Quit obo ("bye")
00:55:54peturddalton: probably ON or POWER
00:57:23ddaltonpetur: is that for a long press?
00:57:42peturno, add |BUTTON_REPEAT for that
00:57:56 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:58:03peturso it's BUTTON_ON | BUTTON_REPEAT
00:58:49 Quit tedrock (Client Quit)
01:00:04ddaltonpetur: is this ok? { ACTION_WPS_TRACKLOCK, BUTTON_ON | BUTTON_REPEAT},
01:01:18peturmeh.. I'm not a button expert, but you're missing a third entry for (I guess) previous key), so add BUTTON_NONE
01:01:32ddaltonat the end?
01:02:10n1sddalton: yes, BUTTON_ON|BUTTON_REPEAT i just one entry
01:04:02n1sno, you need a comma before BUTTON_NONE '|' is a bitwise OR
01:04:38 Join tedrock [0] (
01:05:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:05:47ddaltonso is this any better? { ACTION_WPS_TRACKLOCK, BUTTON_ON | BUTTON_REPEAT , BUTTON_NONE},
01:05:54ddaltonor am I missing a commer
01:05:56peturrofl... my H10 is acting up... it said its recording gain was 320dB
01:06:20n1spetur: I would watch my ears when listening to that ;-)
01:06:46n1sddalton: that looks correct, but if it will work? can't tell you
01:07:04ddaltonn1s: Ok what else needs to be done now?
01:07:11*n1s always resorts to Trial&Error when messing with the action stuff
01:07:26ddaltonwhat files should I look at?
01:07:27n1sddalton: I have no idea, what are you working on
01:07:34ddaltonI have already modified action.h
01:07:58ddaltonwell I want a long press of play to toggle a tracklock setting in p6188
01:08:42n1sddalton: find the wps button loop and insert your action there, i
01:08:56n1s'm guessing apps/gui/gwps.c
01:09:14*petur wonders why his H10 insists on having gain steps = 20dB and peeks into the code
01:09:58ddaltonn1s: what should I be looking for in there?
01:11:16n1sddalton: on line 235 you see a switch statement that is used to test which button was pressed and do the appropriate action, they are very common throughout rockbox
01:11:56n1ssimply insert your action as another case and put whatever code you want to run there
01:12:04 Quit Entasis (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:13:44 Quit Klevi ("Leaving")
01:13:45ddaltonok let me see if I can work it out. If I can then I think I might have a chance at writing a patch I have been wanting for a while
01:13:46peturany other H10 user around?
01:14:22preglowpetur: what gain?
01:14:29jhMikeSpetur: 320dB? can you hear me?
01:14:34peturrecording gain
01:14:55peturjust tried clean SVN and I can set 0 or +20 dB
01:14:59jhMikeSMine only shows 0dB or 20dB for mic like it should
01:15:00 Join eigma [0] (
01:15:01peturin one step
01:15:01 Quit funky_ ("leaving")
01:15:14peturah, thereֵ› only that?
01:15:23jhMikeSit's mic boost or not
01:15:58peturalright then... weird that is showed 320dB and froze untill I pressed stop
01:16:23jhMikeSbut with adulterated SVN right?
01:16:50peturno that was while testing 5852, but I fail to see how I could have caused that
01:17:02ddaltonis this line ok? case ACTION_WPS_TRACKLOCK:
01:18:41peturjhMikeS: do wavpack and mp3_enc need an extra sector when closing the file (write header)?
01:19:01jhMikeSpetur: perhaps by sending an invalid fd to close file?
01:19:02 Nick sdbarker-office is now known as bloodninja (n=sbarker@
01:19:16 Nick bloodninja is now known as sdbarke1 (n=sbarker@
01:19:27peturjhMikeS: it was before I started the test
01:19:44peturboot -> rec screen -> rec -> bam
01:19:44 Nick sdbarke1 is now known as sdbarker-office (n=sbarker@
01:19:44jhMikeSmp3 writes no headers (yet). wavpack swaps the RIFF and WavPack headers and fills them it
01:20:08peturso no extra diskspace required
01:20:20*petur should try recording both formats anyway
01:20:23jhMikeSno. all header writing codecs reserve them in advance.
01:20:31 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
01:21:14peturI want to commit 5852 when these tests are ok too
01:21:37jhMikeSI'm looking for the cause of the freezy thing in test_codec. I'm not proceeding on anything else myself till that is determined. Maybe it will reveal something important.
01:22:22 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
01:22:37jhMikeSSince it happens on e200, which is basically rock stable, gotta be a dumb error.
01:24:15jhMikeSpetur: I suppose I'll test myself a bit later. A sansa flash is easy to fill up for testing.
01:26:30peturyou want to test before I commit?
01:27:14peturor shall I commit and fix if you find something
01:28:02 Quit linuxstb (Nick collision from services.)
01:28:03 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
01:28:50peturdammit... another flush_fat_sector() panic :(
01:29:36jhMikeSonly thing that concern me is the fact that it doesn't check the fd any more and might pass an invalid one to close. I don't know if close actually makes sure it's >= 0.
01:30:45peturhmmm doesn't the H10 have a key to reboot when the panic is shown? it's just stuck, waiting for battery removal :(
01:31:08jhMikeSyou don't have a paperclip hole?
01:31:55peturno, but the battery is easily removed (like a cellphone)
01:32:02peturdone :)
01:32:09jhMikeSah. 20GB has a reset
01:34:09 Quit GodEater_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:34:20jhMikeSno reboot with panicf on pp. noone's ever taken care of those details.
01:38:10peturamiconn, still here?
01:38:54peturamiconn_ maybe?
01:41:45peturhmmm I have a hard time believing the panic is related... it comes from ata_write_sectors() timing out when updating the FAT when disk-full is reached (error -4 in ata.c line 531)
01:43:09 Part sdbarker-office
01:44:08IsolinearDoes 5852 apply to any other targets?
01:44:11jhMikeSso the error comes from a deeper level?
01:44:33petur5852 is for all recording targets
01:44:41IsolinearCool cool.
01:44:48 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
01:46:05peturjhMikeS: yes... maybe I should try on h300, I took the H10 to test because it was faster to fill the disk (5GB), the smallest target after that is 20GB
01:46:32IsolinearIf you want to compile for me, I can test on iPod 5G.
01:47:35peturnah, I won't manage to end this tonight anyway... will do more testing on saturday
01:47:53IsolinearHehe, ok.
01:48:03 Join darksaboteur [0] (
01:48:56donsdxSansa e200: Does Rockbox support photos. Mine do not display and so far, I have not found anything in the FAQ.
01:50:29peturit is a viewer, just play the photo as you would play a music file
01:50:52donsdxpetur: Thank you!
01:51:42 Part toffe82
01:57:26jhMikeSpetur: get a flash-based player with SD support and keep a card mostly filled for testing :)
01:58:05*petur will now accept donations :p
01:58:11n1sor dig up some 64mB old junk somehwere
01:58:31*n1s donates a candy wrapper
01:58:34peturand port rockbox on it first?
01:58:48*jhMikeS was just typing that exact sentence :p
01:58:52peturI have a 32mb player with parallel port interface
01:58:59n1sI mean 64mB old junk micro sd card
01:59:49n1sanyeays gnight
01:59:51 Quit n1s ()
02:01:04jhMikeSwere 64MB microSD cards ever made? the smallest I've ever seen is 512MB.
02:01:11Davo_DinkumWhat do you need donated?
02:01:24peturtime ;)
02:01:51*jhMikeS pings Einstein and Hawking
02:01:51Davo_DinkumDeveloping or debugging?
02:01:53sin613petur: parallel... a rio?
02:02:20peturno, some very old unnamed thing...
02:03:26peturfound a review of it:
02:03:27sin613XavierGr: that's the odd thing, the battery_bench.txt file is never being created
02:03:40 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
02:04:37donsdxpetur: Thank you!
02:05:30*petur hears strange echos and thinks it is time to go to bed
02:05:37 Quit petur ("Zzzzzz")
02:06:23 Part kkurbjun
02:08:14sin613oh lame
02:08:18 Join kkurbjun [0] (
02:08:37 Part kkurbjun
02:08:49sin613on the x5, you run battery_bench by pressing 'select', not 'play' as the instructions state
02:09:12 Join kkurbjun [0] (
02:09:21 Join Bam2550 [0] (
02:11:29 Join Klevi [0] (
02:12:13Bam2550Klevi, your name reminds me of a song
02:12:27Kleviuh ok..
02:12:39IsolinearIt reminds me of pants.
02:12:58Klevimy usual nick IS levi
02:12:58 Nick HellDragon is now known as Bitter (n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon)
02:13:01Klevibut thats taken here
02:13:06IsolinearWell there ya go.
02:14:09 Join homielowe [0] (
02:16:33IsolinearSo the bootloader used to be run from outside the .rockbox folder and that is no longer the case, correct?
02:16:35 Join VGambit [0] (
02:16:45 Quit Bitter ("brb")
02:16:49KleviI do believe so
02:17:29*Bam2550 cires
02:17:43KleviAnyone have any idea as to why the Sansa c200 would crash on the loading screen when the rodio function is implemented
02:17:45VGambitthe rockbox bootloader won't install on my 60 gig 5g
02:17:54Bam2550Im still having trouble converting/encoding my videos to the right format
02:17:59VGambitI remember installing some kind of linux loader thing
02:18:03Klevigoogle a video enccoder
02:18:12 Join HellDragon [0] (n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon)
02:18:26Klevi**radio, even
02:18:38Bam2550im using the method that was suggested in the guide/manual
02:18:46VGambitwhere if I restart the ipod then hold rewind or some such, it would boot into this red text menu and let me pick from doom, a gbc emulator, some kind of alt-ipod os (I think it was rockbox), and the apple os
02:19:01VGambitthat stopped working after an ipod update a while back
02:19:09VGambitbut now when I try to install rockbox
02:19:18KleviI wouldnt know.. im more of a user.. im sorry.
02:19:20VGambitit can't find the ipod on an autosearch
02:19:37VGambitand when I select it manually, it still doesn't detect
02:19:37KleviThen lok into downgrading an Ipods firmware
02:19:45VGambitand as a result, won't install the bootloader
02:19:50VGambitit's on 1.2.1 right now
02:19:52Kleviit must have been the update you did that isnt piked up
02:19:53VGambitis that not good?
02:19:58KleviI dont know
02:20:04Klevibut seemingly, it isnt
02:20:17Bam2550>>cout "dev-c++ 5.0 beta rox";
02:20:45KleviI would know nothing about it, but logically if you updated from Ipod, and then App;e changed something that makes your device not b edetected... you know
02:21:15 Quit darksaboteur ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
02:22:09Bam2550someone said they played Halo on there ipod... is this possible/true?
02:22:22Klevi... I have no idea
02:22:33Kleviyou can play DOOM 95 with your Ipod and Rockbox
02:22:45KleviGameboy games too
02:22:54VGambitI don't get it
02:23:03VGambitwouldn't you guys already know if the firmware is the problem?
02:23:13KleviI said im no expert here
02:23:24KleviI just use it and report bugs
02:23:30Klevi=/ sorry.
02:23:43 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:23:48 Quit Bam2550 ()
02:24:40VGambitso nobody else is online? :/
02:24:45hcsthere may have been a Halo themed Doom WAD, or they may have been playing you for a fool
02:24:58hcsKlevi: sorry if that sounded harsh, bad choice of words
02:25:28Klevi....hcs when did you say anything..?
02:25:42hcsKlevi: ...I'm just going to shut up now
02:27:35 Join NIHIL[1] [0] (
02:27:53 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
02:28:28Klevihcs im confused..\
02:28:39Kleviare there two of you in here?
02:29:11hcsI just said something stupid and followed it up with another stupid thing, never mind.
02:29:20linuxstbVGambit: What exactly have you tried to do, and what happened?
02:29:52 Join psycho_maniac [0] (
02:30:11 Quit kugel ("Benutzer ist abwesend.")
02:31:00Klevihcs: not sure excatly what you wmean, but its all good either way =) no worries
02:31:31VGambittried to install the bootloader
02:31:45linuxstbVGambit: It sounds like you're trying to use rbutil - try ipodpatcher instead.
02:31:55VGambitI was using rbutil
02:32:01VGambitI have ipodpatcher somewhere I think
02:32:08VGambitI used it to backup my firmware once
02:32:18linuxstbNo, download a new version - the link is in the manual
02:32:31linuxstbIt's changed beyond all recognition...
02:32:40VGambityou guys need to update the wiki then
02:32:44VGambitit recommends rbutil
02:32:52VGambitwhich currently does not work (at least not for me)
02:34:04linuxstbI agree...
02:36:21 Quit donsdw ()
02:38:24 Quit Soap ()
02:39:25VGambitsays it's patched now
02:39:28*VGambit tries
02:40:30 Quit Klevi ("Night all =)")
02:42:25 Join daCrazi [0] (
02:44:43VGambitis the ipod's fw still in?
02:45:00linuxstbYes, turn the hold switch on as you reboot to start it.
02:45:43ddaltonwhat is wrong with this?
02:45:49 Quit hcs ("Leaving.")
02:48:59linuxstbddalton: Nothing looks obviously wrong. What's the problem?
02:50:17 Join Zappo [0] (
02:50:25Zappooops, I have spoke before reading.
02:50:34VGambitlooks like I won't be using rockbox off the bat
02:50:40 Join Hermano [0] (
02:50:48VGambitor is there a way to import my playlists that I made in itunes?
02:51:02Zappoif you direct your mouse cursor to
02:51:09 Join Outr [0] (
02:51:13Zappoif you direct your mouse cursor to
02:51:29Zappothen you can select the appropriate choice.
02:51:34linuxstbVGambit: Rockbox itself ignores the itunes database, You'll need to find an application that can export your itunes playlists to the standard m3u format Rockbox supports.
02:51:51 Quit Zappo (Client Quit)
02:51:55 Nick Hermano is now known as Ch33zm0ng3r (
02:52:03VGambitI've been overdue for a new playlist anyway
02:52:13sin613i recall seeing something about a script someone had made to do that sitting in the wiki...
02:52:16Ch33zm0ng3ryeah you should update at least once every time there's a new kernel
02:52:24 Join Zappo [0] (
02:52:37Ch33zm0ng3rcabel modem...zappo?
02:52:42Zappousing linux 9.0 greatly improves rockbox compatibility
02:52:56Ch33zm0ng3rwhatever linux 9.0 is full of security holes
02:53:00Zappoplease do not issue reflective statements about my connection sir.
02:53:01sin613ahh, only converts itunes db to tagcache
02:53:20Ch33zm0ng3rbut seriously 9.0 is a huge waste
02:53:31Ch33zm0ng3rit's the same as switching from windows 94 to vista
02:53:38Ch33zm0ng3rthere is a huge performance loss
02:53:46Zappoyou can find a hidden db in 9.0 of songs that linux will download for you, simply click file −−> gonads −−> massage
02:53:54linuxstbThis channel is logged - if you want off-topic chat, please go to #rockbox-community
02:53:59Ch33zm0ng3rthat is bull-0-ney
02:54:05daCrazihey all...
02:54:11Ch33zm0ng3rso if i come back here I can re read this?
02:54:23Ch33zm0ng3rhow do i turn the log of this channel into a boot cd?
02:54:24Zappoperhaps i just enjoy being preserved for posterity.
02:54:51Ch33zm0ng3rdaCrazi: WHAT DO YOU WNAT?!
02:55:01daCraziwell...may i ask various questions?
02:55:03Ch33zm0ng3rit is rude to interrupt
02:55:07 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
02:55:08Ch33zm0ng3rnext question
02:55:40Ch33zm0ng3rok you can ask a question
02:55:41Ch33zm0ng3rdon't cry
02:55:53Zappofirst i would like to ask you a bunch of questions.
02:55:55daCraziI want to do a dual boot with my 5.5 30gb vid so i can run both the apple firmware and rockbox
02:55:57Ch33zm0ng3rbut keep it pertinent to linux 9.0
02:56:17daCrazithe question is how
02:56:19Ch33zm0ng3rapple firmware?
02:56:22Zappothe question
02:56:25Zappois when
02:56:26Ch33zm0ng3rwhat the ...?
02:56:27Zappoand the answer
02:56:29Zappois now. could i make rockbox play mp4's
02:57:01Zappook dude
02:57:05Ch33zm0ng3rwhat the hell is a rockbox?
02:57:07Zappoi will give you the inside info into this topic
02:57:11Outryou just don't use a gay file format like mp4.
02:57:26Ch33zm0ng3rthe man has a point
02:57:27Ch33zm0ng3ruse ogg
02:57:37Ch33zm0ng3rbut make sure not to use vorbis
02:57:38Zappoyou need to press left-right when you're booting up. this will enable the rockbox system menu
02:57:42Outryeah dude, fuck vorbis.
02:57:44Zappoonce you're in that, select gonads −−> massage.
02:57:57Ch33zm0ng3ri prefer to use gonads−−> stoke
02:58:02Ch33zm0ng3rbut that's just personal preference
02:58:03Zappoi am stoked about gonads.
02:58:11Ch33zm0ng3ri am sorry
02:58:15Ch33zm0ng3ri misstyped
02:58:16VGambitcan rockbox play videos as well?
02:58:20Ch33zm0ng3rgonads −−> suck on
02:58:28Ch33zm0ng3ra box of rocks can't do anything!
02:58:32Zappoyou need to enable video playing in the vagina menu.
02:58:34Outrrockbox can do anything beyond your wildest dreams.
02:58:36Ch33zm0ng3r....well you could clober someone on the head
02:58:46Ch33zm0ng3ramen brother
02:58:58Ch33zm0ng3r::clobbers daCrazi::
02:59:02Ch33zm0ng3rhaha owned bitch
02:59:04Ch33zm0ng3rsit down
02:59:05Outri must know
02:59:07Ch33zm0ng3ryou have no game!
02:59:28daCrazinvm...this place is no help and is fucking lame
02:59:29Ch33zm0ng3rit's fucking, when you lay down on the ground
02:59:39Ch33zm0ng3rand you pick up some rocks and put them in a box
02:59:44Ch33zm0ng3rok ok
02:59:47psycho_maniacthis is very offtopic
02:59:52Ch33zm0ng3rit's true we hate you but we can help you
03:00:00ZappodaCrazi−− this channel is only a reflecction of your inner self
03:00:03Ch33zm0ng3ryou just have to form your question in the form of something that isn't dumb
03:00:18daCraziFUCK YOU ALL, IM OUT
03:00:24 Quit daCrazi ()
03:00:27Ch33zm0ng3ryou so funny
03:00:32Ch33zm0ng3ryou say things from movies and tv shows
03:00:34Ch33zm0ng3rlol so funy
03:01:44 Join chrisjs169 [0] (n=jack@unaffiliated/chrisjs169)
03:02:02Ch33zm0ng3rwho wants a byte?
03:02:30Ch33zm0ng3ris that you?
03:02:32Zappoi will answer any questions about rockbox.
03:02:34Zappowho has questions
03:02:48 Join Bagder_ [0] (
03:02:51Ch33zm0ng3ri have a question
03:02:57 Nick Soap_ is now known as Soap (n=Soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
03:03:00chrisjs169Bagder, read the logs from the past few mins
03:03:04Zappoallow me to enlighten you.
03:03:05Ch33zm0ng3rhow do you make it play acc5 files?
03:03:13Zappofirst you must increment your acc counter
03:03:24Ch33zm0ng3rok mine is only at acc2 right now
03:03:27Zappodo you know how this can be accomplished?
03:03:28Ch33zm0ng3rso three times?
03:03:32 Join sdbarker [0] (
03:03:32Zappoyou will have to kill many monsters
03:03:40Ch33zm0ng3rto level it up?
03:03:45Zappothis may take over 5,000 experience points.
03:03:52Ch33zm0ng3rthere is no time.
03:03:57Outris there any cheat codes?
03:03:57Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:04:02Ch33zm0ng3ris there a h4>< for this?
03:04:05Zappostrength is an important attribute for the rockbox warrior.
03:04:07*linuxstb welcome scorche
03:04:10chrisjs169thank you scorche
03:04:10Mode"#rockbox +b Ch33zm0ng3r!*@* " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
03:04:20Mode"#rockbox -b %Ch33zm0ng3r!*@* " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
03:04:36Mode"#rockbox +b %Zappo!*@* " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
03:05:08chrisjs169scorche, Zappo and Ch33zm0ng3r are the same person
03:05:08scorchewell, it seems you lot have shut up i need to continue muting you 3/1?
03:05:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:05:11 Part Zappo
03:05:17 Join Timmy [0] (
03:05:23chrisjs169Timmy is the same
03:05:27scorchei know
03:05:27TimmyI will answer any questions about rockbox.
03:05:28ddaltonwhat's going on?
03:05:35psycho_maniacwhy is this happening?
03:05:38chrisjs169Timmy, how to I turn on Rockbox?
03:05:46TimmyOne thing you can try
03:05:46chrisjs169ddalton, psycho_maniac: spam attack
03:05:49Timmyis killing two goblins.
03:05:50 Part Ch33zm0ng3r
03:05:51*sdbarker blinks.
03:05:58Mode"#rockbox +b *! " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
03:05:58Kick(#rockbox Timmy :Kick!) by scorche!i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche
03:06:07chrisjs169that should work for at least a few mins
03:06:11ddaltono ok
03:06:18psycho_maniachurray. somebody pissed off or something?
03:06:23ddaltonbut can't he just change his nick and come back?
03:06:28chrisjs169ddalton, nope, ip ban
03:06:32advcomp2019thanks scorche
03:06:41Mode"#rockbox -b %Zappo!*@* " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
03:06:51chrisjs169ddalton, originally he could, but scorche set the ban on his entire IP...mostly
03:06:52scorchechrisjs169: that isnt an ip ban
03:06:57ddaltonso his ip address?
03:07:10scorchethat is an ident+hostname
03:07:18ddaltondoesn't your ip get reset every 3 or 4 hours?
03:07:21chrisjs169yeah, i noticed the ident right after
03:07:28 Quit thegeek_ ("( :: NoNameScript 4.1 :: )")
03:07:30*scorche apologizes....i was napping
03:07:40scorchechrisjs169: the ident is before the hostname ;)
03:10:04 Join Jerold [0] (
03:10:07Jeroldhello, I am jerold.
03:10:17JeroldI am able to answer many questions about rockbox.
03:10:18scorchetook you long enough
03:10:18OutrHi jerold.
03:10:32JeroldTime is relative
03:10:34Jeroldwhen rockbox is present.
03:10:42Mode"#rockbox +b *!* " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
03:10:45Outrthis is crazy shit man.
03:10:55Kick(#rockbox Jerold :must we continue?) by scorche!i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche
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03:11:14psycho_maniaceverytime i go to ask one a question there booted :(
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03:11:34chrisjs169i think it's over...
03:11:37sdbarkerSomebody setup a bot or something here?
03:11:48Outrit probably is over, normally once the ip is banned its done.
03:11:52chrisjs169i don't think so - i can try ctcp version'ing them
03:11:58chrisjs169Outr, nope - they used two ips
03:12:05scorcheas i said, i didnt ban their ip
03:12:15Outrscorche: you jsut did now.
03:12:21Outrchrisjs169: no. they used a new ident
03:12:23psycho_maniacsomebody mad about rockbox or something. or does this happen once in awhile?
03:12:28scorchechrisjs169: we shall see...all they need to do use a proxy/hostmask changer
03:12:40scorcheOutr: no...that is the hostname...not ip
03:12:51Outrscorche: same thing. they resolve to each other.
03:12:52chrisjs16964-251-150-231 vs..oh...sorry
03:13:03chrisjs169I looked at it and skipped the -251 in the second one
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03:13:26scorcheOutr: no...not the same thing...a person can have the same ip when connecting, but can change his hostmask using a program.....there are other ways as well
03:13:37 Join thegeek [0] (
03:13:42Outrscorche: yes, but that also changes the ip they are connecting from.
03:13:49chrisjs169Outr, no it doesn't
03:13:57chrisjs169I can do this:
03:14:15scorcheregardless, if you want to debate this, do it in -community...we have had enough spamming of the logs today ;)
03:14:22 Nick chrisjs169 is now known as chrisjs169|brb (n=jack@unaffiliated/chrisjs169)
03:14:24chrisjs169|brband still use the same ip
03:14:35Outrok, going to -communty chris
03:19:17 Quit Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:20:20omega-xiDoes anyone know if there is a way to adjust the brightness of the LCD on 5th generation iPods?
03:20:38krazykitthere is with a patch. there's a topic in the General forums right now
03:21:10omega-xiawesome ^_^
03:22:36omega-xiI forgot to update it for ages ^^; I think the last time I updated it was November /'06
03:23:59 Quit Outr ("leaving")
03:24:28VGambit«Zappo» you need to enable video playing in the vagina menu.
03:24:38VGambitwhat menu?
03:25:00scorcheVGambit: he was a spammer
03:25:10VGambitso no videos in rockbox?
03:25:25VGambitI was wondering why he kept saying gonads actually lol
03:25:40linuxstbVGambit: (especially read the introduction)
03:26:21omega-xiHmm, I think I'll avoid the flickery solution ^^;
03:26:22VGambitagh nevermind
03:26:34VGambit43 fps on impossibly small resolutions
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03:28:52 Quit alienbiker99 ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
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03:35:03 Join ddalton_ [0] (
03:36:33ddalton_how do I go back to my other nick? It is registered
03:38:34krazykitddalton_, /msg nickserv ghost ddalton password
03:39:06krazykitand then you can /nick back
03:40:02ddalton_what is "ghost "?
03:40:09chrisjs169|brbit's a ghost of yourself
03:40:17chrisjs169|brbbasically, it didn't disconnect properly
03:40:37 Quit ddalton (Nick collision from services.)
03:40:50ddalton_o good
03:40:51chrisjs169|brbnow you can /nick back
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03:51:53 Quit NIHIL[1] ("Yummy, like ircing on a cake! [ - Open Source IRC ]")
03:52:44ddaltonok I have an if statement in a switch case. Should the break go in the if or after it?
03:54:29 Join Llorean [0] (
03:57:46Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:58:24linuxstbddalton: That depends on what you want to do - both are legal C
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04:00:15ddaltonlinuxstb: ok I will place it in the if. I am doing buttons and the code kept on looping. So the voice wouldn't shut up
04:00:57ddaltonwhat are the warning signs that are leading to a broken hard drive?
04:01:25 Join My_Sic [0] (
04:01:25linuxstbddalton: But be careful if the break isn't called, then the program flow will carry on to the next case in the switch.
04:01:50ddaltonthere is an else and there is a break in that as well
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04:08:09ddaltonlinuxstb: will this keep looping?
04:08:28 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
04:08:31ddaltonit did before but I just added a third break at the end of the page so the end of the case
04:08:43ddaltonits from gwps.c
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04:11:25ddaltonlinuxstb: have you seen my code?
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04:14:06ddaltonwhat does tracklock !=tracklock do in c?
04:14:17ddaltonor variable != variable
04:14:43 Nick Llorea1 is now known as Llorean (n=llorean@
04:16:24 Quit billytwowilly (Remote closed the connection)
04:16:25pSXAuthoron floats it can check for NaNs, on other variables its probably a bug
04:16:36pSXAuthori'm guessing though that thats a spinloop waiting for a lock
04:16:52pSXAuthorstill.. dangerous imo (should take a local copy at the start of the loop and compare against that)
04:17:28pSXAuthoralso, for that to work as a spinlock the variable would need to be declared volatile
04:18:08ddaltonpSXAuthor: I am doing buttons. My code is executed six times or something. Do you know how I kill it after it has executed once?
04:18:34pSXAuthorin rockbox, no - sorry - i've never really looked at the rockbox code
04:19:29sin613ddalton: you have no closing bracket on the else, and you may as well just put a single break outside of the if..else
04:19:50 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
04:20:25ddaltonsin613: ok Let me try that
04:23:01 Join Fordibolo [0] (
04:23:16ddaltonsin613: is this right?
04:24:11 Quit tictoc (Remote closed the connection)
04:24:14sin613looks good. i don't know what you're trying to accomplish, but it should compile
04:25:07ddaltonok and will it loop because that's what I had before and it looped about 6 times
04:25:22 Join tictoc [0] (i=tabac@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xB9002659)
04:25:43sin613there's no loop happening in that code segment. what does the code around this look like?
04:26:11 Join gpgarrett [0] (
04:26:23Fordibolodoes rockbox support mpc?
04:26:26ddaltonwell there are cases like my one for different buttons and they contain if statements like mine
04:26:59ddaltonIf I set a variable to 1 in my case and say only execute if I !=1 will that work?
04:27:03ddaltonwhere i is the variable
04:27:24LloreanFordibolo: Yes.
04:27:34sin613if the closing bracket was missing in the original code, it's possible that a loop elsewhere was causing the behavior you observed
04:27:45sin613but it would be more likely that the code just wouldn't have compiled
04:28:14 Join alienbiker99 [0] (
04:28:31Fordiboloi'm using ipod mini (gen2, 6gb) and i d/l the that correspond to my ipod, but i'm stuck now. how do i continue from here? there's no installation file in that zip file
04:29:02LloreanFordibolo: Try the "Manual" link on the main webpage...
04:29:32ddaltonok I tried this i thing if that doesn't work I will remove but I will test it
04:29:38gpgarrettDoes anyone know of a list of the rockbox programming standards? I'm having trouble finding them in the wiki.
04:29:47 Join Fordibolo` [0] (
04:29:47ddaltonI doubt it will work
04:30:00Lloreangpgarrett: I believe it's the "CONTRIBUTING" file in /docs
04:30:27ddaltongpgarrett: hang on
04:30:38ddaltonhey did you get the profile thing?
04:30:47ddaltono he told you
04:31:06gpgarrettOkay. Thanks.
04:31:14sin613what is meant by "standards"? function and variable naming conventions? indentation standard?
04:31:22 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
04:32:08gpgarrettyes, and also things you're not permitted to use (I know malloc is one of those)
04:32:09Lloreansin613: I believe both of those are covered.
04:32:42 Join Fordibolo`` [0] (
04:32:56gpgarrettI'm writing a spectrum analyzer plugin for rb, so I just thought it'd be better to comply with the standards now than later :P
04:33:37 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
04:33:59LloreanWell as far as malloc/free goes, they just don't exist so it's more of a "can't" than merely a "shouldn't"
04:34:04 Join billytwowilly [0] (
04:34:30Fordibolo``why am i getting d/c all the time?
04:35:09scorchewell, technically, you can implement your own malloc in a plugin, but we would prefer it if you can get around that
04:35:42ddaltonwhat is "malloc"?
04:35:59sin613for allocating memory
04:36:05gpgarrettmemory alocation function
04:36:09gpgarrett^ what sin said
04:36:17LloreanI was trying to come up with a slightly more descriptive way of saying that. :-P
04:36:20linuxstb_dynamic_ memory allocation - i.e. allocate at runtime
04:36:44sin613what linuxstb said
04:36:51linuxstbNormally partnered with "free" to free memory allocated.
04:36:56sin613i was trying to come up with a lame way of saying it
04:37:02ddaltonok sounds complicated
04:37:11Lloreanddalton: It's basically useful for if you need to make arrays larger after the program starts running, and things like that. For when you don't know how big something needs to be in advance.
04:37:14ddaltonis it a function or something?
04:37:49gpgarretthm, is there any pre-existing inverse Fourier transform code in rockbox already so I don't have to rewrite it?
04:38:01sin613it's a function that returns a pointer to a memory location. it's a tad necessary for making advanced data structures like trees, lists, etc
04:38:35sin613gpgarrett: i don't think so... it looks like there are two separate idct implementations and an mdct implementation
04:39:21gpgarretthm, okay..
04:39:22sin613there might be more than one mdct... but no idft
04:39:39gpgarrettI found java code for one, so I'll just convert it to c..
04:41:01linuxstbgpgarrett: You will probably want to talk to preglow if you can catch him online - he's written a lot of Rockbox's DSP code, so I'm sure he can advise on what's feasible.
04:41:28 Join Llorea1 [0] (n=llorean@
04:41:28sin613as i understand the idft requires a tad less computation than the idct
04:41:54 Quit Llorean (Nick collision from services.)
04:41:56 Nick Llorea1 is now known as Llorean (n=llorean@
04:43:42gpgarrettI'll write it and just see what happens :)
04:44:37 Quit sin613 ("Leaving.")
04:45:37 Part sdbarker
04:46:40ddaltonok It looks like something is wrong with my h300. I plug it in to the computer (windows) and it tells me I need to format it. I click format and it then says it isn't possible to format.
04:46:46ddaltonanyone know what I should do?
04:47:30 Quit Fordibolo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:49:58 Quit Fordibolo` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:50:02ddaltonVGambit: were you talking to me?
04:50:26*ddalton wonders if flash is more reliable
04:51:13ddaltonlinuxstb: any idea on what I should do?
04:51:56linuxstbddalton: No, sorry.
04:52:55ddaltonlinuxstb: do you know who I should talk to? I have a broken hard drive in my 4 g and now it looks like my h300 to
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04:55:55ddaltonlinuxstb: is flash better than hdd? what is more reliable
04:57:03ddaltonare the Toshiba's all hard drive based players?
04:57:15gpgarretthdd = moving parts = high battery usage and is prone to damage <.< (in my opinion)
04:57:26gpgarrettcan't back it up w/ facts though :P
04:57:44ddaltongpgarrett: you got that right :-( two in 6 months :-(
04:57:50gpgarretttar xfz djbfft-0.76.tar.gz
04:57:57ddaltonI probably didn't need two :-(
04:58:01gpgarrettI had a m500, and well
04:58:05gpgarretti've had 4 of them
04:58:11gpgarrettand the hdd's were gone on all of them :P
04:58:14ddaltondid they break
04:58:21gpgarrettjust fizzled out =/
04:59:05ddaltonwell I hardly take this player out of the house I usually just listen to it in bed and some times in the car but mostly it is moved between my computer and my bed and that's not very far.
04:59:21ddaltonand I don't think I have ever dropped it.
04:59:28gpgarretti guess that just proves the case more =/
05:00:01ddaltonyes and a waste of 500 bucks as well
05:00:09gpgarrettno warranty?
05:00:23ddaltonum well doesn't rockbox affect that?
05:00:50gpgarrettNot if you can do a factory reset ;)
05:01:10ddaltonok is that possible on the h300
05:02:20gpgarrettNot sure ^^; sorry.
05:03:22ddaltonhmmm LinusN might know
05:03:57gpgarrettbut even then. I doubt that they would realize it.. they probably just take it into maintainance mode and wipe it then test it and then send it out again....
05:04:35 Part Llorean
05:04:53*ddalton will take it back see what the guy says.
05:05:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:05:14ddaltonMaybe I should flatten the battery and say it won't boot or something?
05:05:46ddaltongpgarrett: what do you reccon they would say?
05:06:12ddaltonwhat is the cheapest flash based player I will get that will run rb?
05:07:35krazykitprobably a 2gb sansa
05:07:40gpgarrettyou could possibly get them to take it back (they'll most likely just mark it as damaged and return it for credit) or maybe return it to manufacturer (although if you do that you'll get another ofthe same player back) so you'd have to pawn it off lol
05:07:52gpgarretta sansa would probably do you good :) I'm satisfied with mine
05:08:28ddaltonkrazykit: how much do you think?
05:08:49 Join Fordibolo [0] (
05:10:28ddaltongpgarrett: so how can you tell when the hard drive has broken down on your player?
05:10:41gpgarrett$109.95 retail for a e250, $86.72 on amazon..
05:10:58gpgarrettoh, because it made a "whirrr click click click whirrrr click click click whirrrrrrr click" noise
05:11:09ddaltonim guessing us dollar?
05:11:21ddaltonexactly mine is doing that.
05:11:38ddaltonit started doing a little bit of that the day I got it
05:12:03ddaltonwhat player was that one where it did the clicking?
05:12:32ddaltonhow big is e250?
05:12:35ddaltonin gb?
05:12:57advcomp2019gpgarrett, you can get the e280 under $150
05:13:16ddaltonalienbiker99: and does that have radio?
05:13:21gpgarrettit's cheaper in the long run to get the bigger players..
05:13:28gpgarrettThe american model does
05:13:33gpgarretteuropean doesnt I think
05:13:40alienbiker99gpgarrett your right
05:13:50ddaltonso what should I go for I have about 1000 songs but maybe more soon.
05:13:54*alienbiker99 is thinking about getting another e200
05:14:09gpgarrett1000 songs, what bitrate?
05:14:22ddaltonroughly about 192 kb
05:14:23gpgarrettalienbiker99, it's a nice player, isn't it? :P
05:14:45alienbiker99yeah right now my mom is using it, so i just might buy myself the 8gb one
05:15:15ddaltonalienbiker99: so if I get one here in australia would it have radio?
05:15:45pSXAuthorthe e2xx also takes microsd cards so you can expand it quite cheaply
05:15:48 Join bb__ [0] (
05:15:48gpgarrettconvert your songs to ogg to save space, haha
05:16:06alienbiker99ddalton im not sure on that
05:17:09ddaltongpgarrett: ok I have left my h300 for half an hour and it booted rockbox. What does this mean it is working again? It doesn't load .talk clips well though
05:17:27gpgarrettit loadted it _after_ half an hour?
05:17:38 Quit Fordibolo`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:18:00alienbiker99its your hard drive clicking?
05:18:02ddaltonor maybe quicker I checked it half an hour later but watched it for about 2 mins
05:18:10ddaltonit usually boots in about 15 seconds
05:19:05gpgarrettdon't turn it off :)
05:19:14 Quit Fordibolo ("אם יש גהינום וזה לא כאן ועכשיו, יש מצב שחלקכם יגיע אליו!")
05:19:37krazykitddalton, you can get them refurbished at for 50 dollars, the 2 gig model. more space is more money, obviously
05:20:59ddaltongpgarrett: should I turn it off and time it to see how long it actually takes?
05:20:59krazykitthe 4 gig model is $80, refurbished
05:21:13ddaltonI can't even brows my music
05:21:18gpgarrettddalton, if you plan on returning your h300, see if you can boot into OF and then uninstall rockbox
05:21:25gpgarrettwhat about rhough file view?
05:21:32gpgarrettinstead of database?
05:21:55 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
05:21:56VGambitso in rockbox, there's no way to seek through a track?
05:22:29|Rain|hold down forward?
05:22:35gpgarretthold down fast forward?
05:22:39gpgarrettyeah, that :P
05:22:57|Rain|you may also be shocked to discover that rockbox has a manual :D
05:23:10VGambitit's quicker to ask, sorry :(
05:23:14VGambitplus the manual is out of date
05:23:15psycho_maniac|Rain|: no way really?
05:23:44|Rain|I didn't read the manual initially either, but for the most part it was pretty intuitive
05:23:58advcomp2019VGambit, what file type are they
05:24:09VGambitmp3s mostly
05:24:09ddaltonhow do I stop it from building the db?
05:24:09|Rain|'cept for record to switch between scan/preset in the radio
05:24:11scorcheVGambit: what makes you think the manual is out of date?
05:24:24VGambitthe fact that I've already had one problem following the wiki
05:24:41VGambitit told me to install the bootloader with rbutil
05:24:44scorchewe are talking about the manual...not the wiki
05:25:10psycho_maniaci think the manual is more to date then the wiki sometimes.
05:25:24VGambitthe wiki is supposed to be a version of the manual
05:25:28VGambityou guys need to change that then
05:25:37krazykitVGambit, it's a wiki. you can change it.
05:25:37scorcheVGambit: uh...where did you hear this?
05:25:41VGambitthe site has three options for documentation
05:25:47VGambitpdf, html, and online
05:25:48 Join sdbarker [0] (
05:25:49VGambitI chose online
05:25:54VGambitit pointed to the out of date wiki
05:26:07|Rain|what player?
05:26:31scorchethe online version should be current
05:26:44scorchewhat issues did you encounter?
05:27:00VGambitit told me to use an out of date application
05:27:02scorche...if you notice, there is even a date there that is current...i dont see anything that makes you think it is out of dat
05:27:21VGambit«VGambit» it told me to install the bootloader with rbutil
05:27:31linuxstbVGambit: No, it told you to use a brand new application that's still being tested
05:27:36 Quit bb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
05:27:36ddaltonwow it seems to be working!
05:27:52VGambitas soon as I got here I was told that program was out of date
05:27:55VGambitwhatever :(
05:28:03gpgarrettgrats ddalton :)
05:28:13gpgarrettAlthough you still may want to consider the other options ^^;
05:28:15linuxstbVGambit: No, I told you that ipodpatcher is an alternative...
05:28:29ddaltongpgarrett: should I remove rb and sell it before it actually breaks?
05:28:57gpgarrettIt's really up to you :) If you have any feelings that it'll fail again, well..\
05:29:32ddaltongpgarrett: from what I have been saying does it sound like it will? would you try and sell it before it does break?
05:30:46gpgarrettLike I said, I personally like flash players, so I don't see why not :P
05:31:12ddaltonOk I might put it on ebay. How much do you reccon I should get?
05:31:21ddaltonh320 iriver about 1 year old
05:31:41 Part hcs
05:31:42gpgarrettno idea
05:31:46gpgarrettnever had one
05:32:13VGambityou guys think the zune will be cracked within, say, a year?
05:32:23scorchewell, no one is working on it
05:32:42VGambitwhen I graduate, I'll take a crack at it
05:32:47VGambitif it's still up for grabs
05:33:21scorchenothing is up for grabs
05:33:35VGambitby that I meant if nobody's cracked it by then
05:33:57scorchethat sounds likely
05:33:58 Quit SkinInd95 (Connection timed out)
05:34:57ddaltongpgarrett: how big is the e200?
05:35:05ddaltonI find the h300 a bit big
05:35:13gpgarrettbig as in actual dimensions?
05:35:14gpgarrettnot storage?
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05:35:38krazykit3.5 by 1.5 inches, .5 inches deep
05:35:59ddaltonso its pretty small?
05:36:00gpgarrettit's a smaller player imo, and pretty light, ~3x1.5x.5?
05:36:08gpgarrettoh, krazykit beat me to it lol
05:36:16krazykiti measured it just now ;-)
05:36:27ddaltonif I could see a photo of it I wouldn't be asking this but what buttons does it have?
05:36:50ddaltono thanks krazykit
05:37:07krazykitit has a big middle button with a spinny wheel around it, and then four buttons around that wheel, as well as a record button up and to the left
05:37:15alienbiker99its kinda big, but its a nice player. i need to buy a new batter for mine
05:37:27alienbiker99errr that was about the h300
05:37:33ddaltonsmaller than the h300?
05:38:34gpgarrett <- that's the e260 ddalton
05:38:56ddaltonthat's a photo is it?
05:39:12krazykitnot terribly helpful to a non-sighted user ;-)
05:39:29ddaltonyeah that's what I was going to say (I am blind )
05:39:39gpgarrettooh :X
05:40:09ddaltonwhat's the spinny wheel for?
05:40:24gpgarrettin rockbox it adjusts volume
05:40:34ddaltonand what does it do in menus?
05:40:40krazykitnavigates the menus
05:40:41gpgarrettit scrolls up and down
05:40:51ddaltonand what do the other buttons do?
05:41:48scorcheddalton: does the manual explain it in a way that would adequately tell you?
05:41:58ddaltonhaven't read it :-)
05:42:17scorcheplease do :)
05:42:23ddaltonI am
05:42:39VGambitoho nice touch
05:42:54VGambitthe fast forward speeds up towards the middle of the song, and slows near the end
05:43:05VGambitso there's no overshooting if you just wanna hear the end of the song :O
05:43:25ddaltonand is the wheel anoying like the ipod one?
05:43:28VGambitinversely, no matter how fast you spin the wheel, it scrolls at the same speed... hm
05:43:32 Quit Rondom (Connection timed out)
05:43:35gpgarrettddalton: there are 4 buttons around the center scroll wheel. Play/pause, fast forward, menu, and rewind (in clockwise order). and then there is one large button in the middle which is used for selection. there is a small power button in the lower left of the player, a record button on the left, and a hold switch on the top
05:43:46gpgarrettVGambit, there is a patch which allows for scrolling acceleration
05:44:20gpgarrettI believe the digibuild branch includes it (but it's for the e200)
05:44:23VGambitI might get that tape deck theme + "sm" patch
05:44:53ddaltonok thanks for all the info
05:45:04ddaltondoes it support the wakeup alarm?
05:45:36gpgarrettas in it begins to play at a time you set?
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05:46:17gpgarrettIt (rockbox) has a sleep function. but no alarm as far as I know.
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05:53:45ddaltonwhat is "UMS mode"
05:54:10hcsCould anyone explain to me how the cue viewer is supposed to work, or point me to documentation?
05:54:15ddaltongpgarrett: it does on players with wakeup rtc. There is a patch for the h300 and it works on the ipod
05:55:41gpgarrettums mode is what allows you to connect your player as a usb mass storage device as compared to the play for sure in which you cant drag certain sorts of files
05:55:43gpgarrett(I think)
05:56:16ddaltonso for instalation what mode do I need it in?
05:56:36gpgarrettthe mass storage one ^^;
05:56:46gpgarrettnot sure what the actual abbreviation is...
05:57:00ddaltonso not ums?
05:57:55gpgarrettMSC or UMS
05:58:05gpgarrettso, if your player uses ums, then yes lol
05:58:17gpgarrett(sorry, mine uses the MSC/MTP abbreviations)
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05:59:08ddaltonso if I get an e200 then what should it be in for instalation?
05:59:53gpgarrettMSC I believe
05:59:57gpgarrettlemme check on my player really quick
06:00:19gpgarrettack it's midnight already
06:01:09gpgarrettyup msc
06:01:26ddaltonok and what do I need it in for normal use like copying music
06:01:37gpgarrettsame :)
06:01:50gpgarrettyou just put it in the Music/ directory
06:01:56ddaltonso what's the rockbox manual on about?
06:02:08gpgarrettyou shouldn't really ever have to (or want to..) change it
06:02:08ddaltonit said something about ums mode
06:02:33gpgarrettUMS AND SMC ARE THE SAME
06:02:37ddaltoncan't I put music anywhere for rockbox?
06:02:50gpgarretti think you can, but
06:03:03gpgarrettmy japanese keyboard turned on and enabled capslock ^^
06:03:13gpgarrettI never put it anywhere else so I couldn't tell you :) can
06:03:52ddaltonit says "Warning: The following steps require you to change the setting in Settings ? USB Mode to MSC from within the original firmware. Never extract files to your
06:04:21ddaltonextract files to your player while it is in recovery mode. "
06:04:46ddaltonso what does this mean?
06:04:51gpgarretthm.. where's that at?
06:05:09scorcheit means exactly what it say...
06:05:20scorchewhat about that is comfusing?
06:05:29scorcheugh...i cant type...
06:05:49ddaltonso msc isn't recovery mode?
06:06:08ddaltonso what is recovery mode?
06:06:13scorchea different mode
06:06:28scorche...called recovery mode
06:06:43ddaltonand why can't you extract files in that mode?
06:06:48scorcheit requires a certain button combination to shouldnt need it
06:07:04gpgarrettI'm not sure why you need recovery mode.. what's telling you to do that?
06:07:04ddaltonso its a safety mode like the ipods have?
06:07:20gpgarrettyup (maybe?)
06:07:28gpgarrettit allows you recover your sansa if you mess up the firmware.
06:07:32scorcheddalton: safety mode?
06:07:33gpgarrettsansa's are very hard to brick afaik
06:07:46ddalton"disk mode"
06:07:49ddaltonor what ever is different
06:08:03 Quit hcs ("Leaving.")
06:08:05scorchepoint is, you /shouldnt/ need it
06:08:33ddaltonso I can just run the exe file to install rockbox strait away?
06:08:46scorchewhat exe file?
06:09:03ddaltonim not sure what it is called but the one you run to install the bootloader
06:09:07scorchejust follow the instructions in the manual...however, i dont know what is accessible by screen readers
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06:09:35ddaltonno that should be fine
06:09:44gpgarrettyup, you run that, and then extract the into your root directory
06:10:26gpgarrettalthough if you do this anytime soon, you may want to use an older bootloader because there is a problem with the current version freezing..
06:10:33ddaltonand what does the h300 have that the sansa doesn't?
06:10:59gpgarrettnever had a h300, you'd have to ask someone else about that :P
06:11:18ddaltondoes the sansa have a wakeup rtc?
06:11:31krazykitif it does, i'm not sure where to find it
06:11:51ddaltonbut could the alarm code be ported to it?
06:12:20gpgarretthm, does that mean it has power-on @ a certain time?
06:13:04ddaltongpgarrett: where it can wakeup the player. So you could set an alarm for 6 am and it would wake up your player then you could it play some music or maybe start the radio
06:13:28gpgarrettbut do you have to leave your player on for that? or
06:13:35ddaltonwhat's in settings/general settings/system?
06:13:44ddaltonno you shut it down
06:13:52ddaltonand then it turns itself on
06:14:10krazykitstart screen, time and date, idle poweroff, limits, car adapter, wheel light
06:14:24ddaltonwhat's "wheel "?
06:14:26gpgarrettIf it has that, i'd be in heaven <.<
06:14:36gpgarrettthe spin wheel in the middle
06:14:38gpgarrettit's backlit
06:14:38krazykitddalton, the wheel has LEDs in it, it's just how bright to make them
06:15:06gpgarrettI have mine off.. it screws with my eyes when I'm watching movies at night lol
06:15:19ddaltonwhat rtc does it use?
06:17:05gpgarrettnot sure if that tells you anything.. lol
06:17:15ddaltondid you google it?
06:17:30 Quit psycho_maniac ("Good Bye")
06:17:48gpgarrettno related results lol
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06:19:22ddaltonXavierGr: how did you find out what rtcs have wakeup
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06:19:49ddaltonI have the c file up here but don't know how to tell weather there is wakeup
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06:21:03gpgarretthm... not sure how to find that out
06:21:04ddaltonwhere are the rtc docs located?
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06:27:52ddaltonwho is doing the sansa port?
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06:29:02gpgarrettnot sure :X
06:29:54alienbiker99whoa i just found the secret woot site selling zunes for $100
06:31:03XavierGrddalton: if I am not mistaken rtc_as3514 has rtc alarm
06:31:33ddaltonXavierGr: I will enable it then see if I can get someone to test.
06:31:50ddaltondo I need to modify the bootloader?
06:32:05XavierGrwell you won't find the as3514 doc (you need an nda for it) (only a couple of rockbox developers have the pdf in their hands
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06:32:30XavierGrddalton: you can't just add the HAVE_RTC_ALARM define and expect it to work
06:32:46XavierGrevery rtc chip has a different setup
06:32:52XavierGryou need to write a driver for it
06:33:01ddaltonso I can't just try and do what you did?
06:33:09ddaltonwith the h300 one?
06:33:43XavierGrno, in my case (while I started from scratch) I discovered that the same code is shared between ipod pcf chip and H300 pcf chip
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06:34:31XavierGrI know that as3517 has rtc (the pdf is downloadable from the AS site)
06:34:38XavierGrbut I am not sure about as3514
06:34:47XavierGryou will have to ask someone that has the pdf
06:35:03XavierGrI think that 1-2 developers here have it
06:35:10ddaltonXavierGr: can I get them to send it to me?
06:35:30XavierGrno, I am not sure if that will be possible
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06:35:52XavierGrAS entrusted the pdf to specific developers on the rockbox project (if I recall correctly)
06:36:12gpgarrettyeah, and I bet that nda's probably really strict :P
06:36:16XavierGrso I doubt that anyone here can get it just by asking
06:36:16Realist_any one able to lend some advice regarding my brand new Cowon D2 that bricked while updating this afternoon
06:36:31Realist_I believe I need a recovery utility of some sort
06:36:42scorchegpgarrett: that is teh purpose of having one...
06:36:48scorcheRealist_: this channel is about rockbo
06:36:54XavierGrddalton: but you could always try to read as3517 there is quite some information on the rtc alarm setup iirc
06:36:55Realist_i realize that
06:37:04krazykitthen you realize you're asking the wrong place?
06:37:07scorcheRealist_: well, quite simply, that is offtopic here
06:37:28Realist_Ok thank you was just wondering if any one had any ideas since many people here hack hardware
06:37:28XavierGrddalton: ideally it could be the same, though this is just a guess
06:37:38krazykitRealist_, i'd check cowon's website.
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06:38:39ddaltonXavierGr: so what should I do? talk to a dev that has it?
06:38:39XavierGrddalton: btw on your other question (a while back) I didn't have time to start coding for the date alarm trigger
06:38:49XavierGrI am hoping to start it on one of these days
06:39:22XavierGrddalton: yes you could ask someone to read if there is an rtc alarm with the as3514
06:39:31XavierGrif yes then someone just have to right the driver
06:39:46ddaltonok and is that hard to do (writing the driver?)
06:40:37XavierGrwell I am certainly not an expert on that, my first try with drivers was the rtc code too, but it seemed straight forward
06:40:50ddaltonwhat needs to be done?
06:41:07XavierGrwell you just have to read and write data from the rtc chip
06:41:08gpgarrett"Real Time Clock - 32bit RTC sec counter, 96 days auto wake-up -selectable alarm (seconds or minutes)"
06:41:27XavierGrthe datasheet describes on what address you have to read/write and how it is coded
06:41:41ddaltonok so I would need that info?
06:41:46gpgarrettany chances we could manage to squeeze that info out of somewhere? :X
06:41:48XavierGryes definitely
06:41:57XavierGrddalton: you can't right the driver without a datasheet
06:42:29ddaltonok and would I be able to write it myself if I got the information?
06:42:32ddaltonabout it?
06:42:45XavierGrwell theoritically you could reverse engineer it, but let's leave it there :P
06:43:11 Quit aliask ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
06:43:26gpgarrettat least i know that it has it.. that's pretty cool (I would love a rtc wakeup feature for my sansa xD)
06:43:27XavierGrddalton: I am not sure about that, at start I didn't think I could do it either.
06:43:44ddaltonok so who should I talk to?
06:44:04XavierGrddalton: I am not sure, maybe one of the developers that is responsible for the sansa port?
06:44:43ddaltonok so if I ask on the dev list is it likely someone would help me with it?
06:44:49XavierGrddalton: warning though, it can be quite tricky to play with these things
06:45:22XavierGrddalton: I just saw how it works and I expect it to be that way, but hardware sometimes can be a real pain in the ass
06:45:38ddaltonwhen you say you need to know what addresses to write to is that for lines like this?
06:45:41ddaltonstatic char alarm_disable[] = { 0x7f, 0x7f, 0x3f, 0x07, 0x3f, 0x1f, 0xff };
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06:47:31XavierGrno, the addresses to write, read are on the lines that say "pcf50605_write" or "pcf50605_read" or something like that (depends on the target)
06:47:43ddaltonXavierGr: ok
06:48:07ddaltonso if I got a devs help who new about this is it likely I could get it working?
06:48:52XavierGrddalton: you are asking very general and abstract things, I am not sure, it depends on a lot of stuff
06:49:13ddaltonshould I try? or will it either stuff my player or not work?
06:49:19ddaltonwhen I get a sansa
06:49:49XavierGrnormally if you write false code I would expect it to just crash, but then again I am not sure
06:50:07ddaltonok i will ask on the mailing list and see what happens
06:50:12XavierGrI am not the right guy to talk about hardware :P
06:50:34XavierGr(hell even at software I suck...)
06:51:09ddaltonanyway should I get a sansa?
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06:51:22ddaltonwhat moddles support radio and recording?
06:51:29scorchewe cant make that decision for you...
06:52:01ddaltonscorche: you can tell me if you think it is one of the best players running rockbox
06:52:23scorchewell, i dont make general comments like for what purpost?
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06:52:52ddaltonwell I am a blind guy so is voice working well? Maybe plugins because I have a few talking. and music
06:53:08ddaltonthen of course radio recording and maybe the alarm if I can get it to work
06:53:10XavierGr_ddalton: how should I know? It's your call, although I am in the same dillema myself :)
06:53:12XavierGr_I already have 5 rockbox targets and I can't justify buying another one :P
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06:54:41ddaltonhow stable is rb on the sansa?
06:54:53XavierGr_I hear it is quite stable
06:55:06gpgarrettmine rarely crashes, and only does when I do weird things to it
06:55:25gpgarrettit supports radio and recording (via mic and radio)
06:55:45gpgarrettthat is, if you get the american version, the european doesnt have radio
06:55:58XavierGr_gpgarrett: fm e200 or normal european one?
06:56:22XavierGr_I've heard that even some european models have the fm but not enabled in the OF
06:56:27gpgarrett(also, ddalton, have you looked at )
06:56:39gpgarrettoh, i thought that none of them had it, but I don't know from experience :)
06:57:09XavierGr_yeah it seems that they just add a sticker on the fm model
06:57:27 Join Asteriskk_ [0] (
06:57:32XavierGr_but it isn't known if that's the case for all eu models
06:57:43Asteriskk_evening folks. I have a question
06:58:00Asteriskk_I just got a sansa c200 and I'm not clear by the site whether or not rockbox will run on it
06:58:34XavierGr_hmm Slasheri is idle since the 25th of september... :\
06:58:53homieloweAsteriskk_: Have you read the front page?
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06:59:26Asteriskk_yes and it says in the list of models that it will run, but on the models specific features page it says " ..models that might soon run rockbox, so I'm not clear, as I said
06:59:26XavierGranyway time to go to bed...
06:59:33gpgarrettoyasumi XavierGr
06:59:36Asteriskk_cya XavierGr
06:59:36gpgarretter night XavierGr
07:00:13Asteriskk_I am very new to digital mp3 players, the last one I looked at was 6 years ago, a 30 dollar 64mb player from radio shack lol
07:00:19Asteriskk_they've changed a lot since then
07:01:10psycho_maniacit says c200 right on the front page.
07:01:17Asteriskk_yeah it does
07:01:57Asteriskk_but when I looked under the why run rockbox link/model features it said that it was in development
07:02:03Asteriskk_so, I'm confuzzled
07:02:08psycho_maniacmaybe that page is old?
07:02:15Asteriskk_could be
07:02:33Asteriskk_I'll keep poking around but I really don't want to wreck my new player with the wrong installer
07:03:03psycho_maniacnot too old actually 11 Sep 2007 -
07:04:15Asteriskk_here it is on the current builds page
07:04:46psycho_maniacis this your first time installing rockbox?
07:04:53Asteriskk_thanks for your forebearance
07:05:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:05:20psycho_maniachold on before you download the current build for your player
07:06:18*homielowe goes to edit the wiki page
07:06:38psycho_maniacyou should use this its pretty easy to use
07:07:32Asteriskk_what does this do?
07:07:35 Join ptw419 [0] (
07:07:49Asteriskk_I want to be sure I understand what I'm doing here
07:08:09psycho_maniacits an installer for rockbox.
07:08:46Asteriskk_downloading the windows binary, now
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07:15:02psycho_maniacAsteriskk: i would also suggest to read the manual for rockbox for your player
07:15:10Asteriskk_doing that now
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07:22:05Asteriskk_doesn't look like there's a manual for this one
07:22:41Asteriskk_it's further down
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07:34:49ddaltonso any e200 will support radio in rockbox?
07:35:56gpgarrettI'm not so sure about that.. I would make sure that you're buying an american one if you want to guarantee it..
07:37:00ddaltonthat's going to be hard in aust
07:37:12ddaltonis there anywhere on the net I can get one?
07:37:22ddaltonamerican one
07:39:01ddaltongpgarrett: do you know?
07:39:23gpgarrettnope >.< not enough to assure it
07:40:06ddaltonalienbiker99: didn't you tell me where to get an american one from before?
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07:48:26ddaltonwho has an x5 here?
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08:01:37Flyingsheephi, I'm having a problem with patching the original bootloader on the sansa E200R where e200tool is not detecting the device. Can anyone help?
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08:04:40gpgarrettare you using a linux live cd?
08:05:25ddaltonhow do I tell if the player being used is an iaudio?
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08:08:46gpgarrettFlyingsheep did you put your player into maintainance mode?
08:08:57gpgarrett(and whats the link for the guide you're using?)
08:10:28Flyingsheepbut when I enter maintenance mode after it says "Enter USB 2.0 MSD device" it spams "LUN0 locked" then "LUN0 unlocked" for like 10 lines
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08:10:51Flyingsheepthe last line is "LUN0 locked"
08:10:58gpgarrettI dont believe it says that in maintainance mode.. are you sure that's not recovery mode?
08:11:07Flyingsheepwait... you're right, it is
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08:12:14Flyingsheepokay, so to get into maintenance mode you put it on hold, hold the middle button down until you plug in the USB cord, and then let go instantly, right?
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08:12:41gpgarretti think lol
08:12:45scorcheit doesnt matter about the timing when you let it go as long as it is after the blue dial lights up
08:13:03Flyingsheepokay, it says "KEY LOCKED" and then "system shutdown"
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08:13:46Flyingsheepwait... but if I hold the button for a little bit longer, it's a blank screen but the blue light is on
08:13:47gpgarrettwere you holding the middle button before you plugged in the usb cable?
08:14:00scorcheyou want that state
08:14:29Flyingsheephey, I got it
08:15:13Flyingsheepthanks guys
08:15:14gpgarrettgrats :P
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08:26:52ddaltonwhat button is used on x5 to stop playback?
08:28:22 Part daurn|laptop
08:28:55LinusNddalton: hold the play button
08:29:26ddaltonLinusN: what is it called in the keymap?
08:30:35ddaltonthen how do you pause something?
08:31:31ddaltonLinusN: I am fixing a bug. Should I just use power for stopping battery bench?
08:31:45LinusNddalton: by tapping the play button
08:32:03LinusNddalton: are you fixing the battery bench report?
08:32:05ddaltono I see
08:32:26ddaltonmaybe I should just change the message displayed for x5?
08:33:15LinusNi think it might be better to change the text
08:33:23ddaltonok I will do that
08:33:24LinusNdoesn't really matter though
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08:38:00GodEater_is Slasheri also Cacheri ?
08:38:19ddaltonLinusN: I am guessing that as it was before stop would just stop battery_bench?
08:38:58LinusNddalton: there is no stop button on the x5
08:39:13LinusNGodEater_: yes :-)
08:40:43LinusNddalton: but the general idea is that the Play button is supposed to start the battery benchmark, and the Stop button (if any) stops it
08:41:00psycho_maniacGodEater_: How many files do you have on your 80gig ipod?
08:41:03ddaltonLinusN: ok I will just make sure this compiles and then upload and see what he says
08:41:05LinusNon the x5 we would have to use another button since there is no stop button
08:41:07ddaltonit is already done
08:41:23ddaltonas in written but I don't yet know if it will compile and work
08:41:58GodEater_psycho_maniac: about 7.5k I think
08:42:17GodEater_psycho_maniac: hence I wanted to mention your issue to Slasheri :)
08:43:24psycho_maniacGodEater_: if you checked the forums. i got my issue fixed for the moment.
08:43:38GodEater_psycho_maniac: no - you haven't got it fixed, you've got a work around
08:44:05ddaltonLinusN: is it ok to have a #if inside another #if?
08:44:19LinusNGodEater_, psycho_maniac: i suggest using a logf-enabled build
08:44:24psycho_maniacok ok. better way or wording it. its a work behind really because i lost about 4k songs lol
08:44:24LinusNddalton: yes
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08:44:52GodEater_LinusN: I don't need the logf build - because dircache doesn't break on mine
08:45:05GodEater_psycho_maniac: you have enough clue to build a logf enabled rockbox ?
08:45:06psycho_maniacLinusN: that a patch?
08:45:11GodEater_psycho_maniac: no it's not
08:45:19*amiconn already used battery_bench on X5 several times
08:45:26amiconnIt always worked...
08:45:35ddaltonLinusN: it compiles should I just upload it and see if someone can test and if it works?
08:45:39LinusNamiconn: nobody claims that it doesn't work
08:45:50amiconnSo what's the problem with it?
08:45:51LinusNddalton: sure
08:46:01LinusNamiconn: the instruction text is wrong
08:46:11ddaltonhey the guy is right. Amiconn see line 75
08:46:27ddaltonof battery_bench.c and then read the text on the screen
08:46:32LinusNamiconn: FS #7893
08:46:53ddaltonforget my last patch I have a better one (hopefully)
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08:47:53psycho_maniacok then my next question. what is a logf-enabled build?
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08:48:26RaZorbacKhello good morning.
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08:48:43amiconnah ok
08:49:07amiconnIt seems I always ignored the text, and just used what was intuitively correct
08:49:16amiconnThe info text needs to be target specific
08:49:19RaZorbacKa little question: is there something similar to talkbox or voicebox under MAC OS?
08:49:31amiconnOn X5/M5, I would use Power for cancel, not Play
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08:49:55ddaltonamiconn: isn't play stop?
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08:50:14 Quit FOAD ("I'll be back")
08:50:15LinusNactually, most plugins use the power switch
08:50:17ddaltonok fine I will make it use power
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08:52:41gpgarrettjust don't make them hold it in for too long lol
08:53:28GodEater_psycho_maniac: it's an option under "Advanced" when you configure your build
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08:53:50RaZorbacKno ideas for my voicebox under mac?
08:54:13GodEater_RaZorbacK: I don't believe anyone's made such a thing
08:54:28ddaltonRaZorbacK: can you run shell scripts?
08:54:30 Quit CaptainSquid (Remote closed the connection)
08:54:33ddaltonunder mac?
08:54:34RaZorbacKthanks it was to be sure :)
08:55:00RaZorbacKdon't know mac, i'm asking the question for a friend of mine
08:55:06ddaltonLinusN: will my patch work it is at p7893
08:55:11ddaltonactually b
08:55:27HidalgoDCCan someone help me plz
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08:55:38 Quit RaZorbacK ("bye all")
08:55:38HidalgoDCHow can i run mid files on my ipod 5.5g
08:55:47ddaltonRaZorbacK: don't know but if you can setup some sort of unix environment you could maybe run the shel script to do it
08:56:16psycho_maniaci always forget the command to run configure before you compile a build. what is it again?
08:56:19LinusNddalton: you changed the wrong text, that text is only for the Archos Player
08:56:32ddaltonoh ok
08:56:45HidalgoDCHow can I play mid files on my ipod ?
08:56:50LinusNddalton: you are supposed to change the const char *msgs[] strings
08:58:12*amiconn would suggest separate #defines for the button labels
08:58:14psycho_maniacand this logf will fix my dircache problem?
08:58:31HidalgoDCHOW CAN I PLAY mid files on my ipodddd
08:59:01psycho_maniacsearch the wiki for midi
08:59:11GodEater_psycho_maniac: no - it won't fix it - it'll help us work out where the issue is
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09:00:36psycho_maniaccrud that means i have to readd all 4k songs :S
09:00:46scorcheamiconn: if an archos recorder freezes while loading up (with the hard drive continually running), does that mean something is screwed up in the ROM?
09:01:52psycho_maniaci suppose i should run a default build and not a custom one correct? this isue happened with the custom and default and i only rean the 7738 patch
09:02:27GodEater_it'd be best if you ran with a default build with the logf on yes
09:03:16psycho_maniacyeah i just realized that so then my vmware player is running for no reason. its building with the patch :s so i have to rerun it. or can i cancle?
09:03:51GodEater_just cancel it with Ctrl-C
09:03:55amiconnscorche: Could be anything, impossible to say without further analysis
09:04:41scorchesuggested route?...i just replaced batteries and resoldered the battery connectors
09:05:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:06:09ddaltonLinusN: is it ok now?
09:06:32 Join Zagor [0] (n=bjorn@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
09:06:58amiconnscorche: Check filesystem and/or reformat it. Also check partition type and/or zero the whole hdd and repartition. Try with and without an ajbrec.ajz
09:07:07LinusNddalton: yes, that will work
09:07:16amiconn(all depending on the exact point in the boot process that makes it hang)
09:07:24ddaltonso can it be committed?
09:07:28ddaltonor is it ready to be?
09:07:32LinusNddalton: sure
09:07:45LinusNddalton: however, in the long term, i suggest a different solution
09:07:47scorcheindeed..i was hoping i didnt have to go out and get a 2.5 > 3.5 adapter, but it seems so..
09:07:51psycho_maniacalright making build with logf now
09:08:11ddaltonLinusN: I was trying some button code before. It kept on looping. Do you think you might have time to take a quick look?
09:08:16amiconnscorche: USB doesn't work?
09:08:20psycho_maniaca CLEAN build
09:08:32scorcheas i said, it freezes...same with loading the OF, and loading rockbox
09:08:35LinusNddalton: where each platform #define's the string to be displayed along with the button definitions
09:08:40scorcheit is unflashed as well
09:08:48ddaltonLinusN: what is your solution?
09:08:58scorchewhich is why i think it might be ROM..
09:09:07ddaltonso that's alot of coding?
09:09:09amiconnscorche: USB is detected before trying to load a firmware from disk. If even that doesn't work, something might really be screwed
09:09:17ddaltonis that for all of rb?
09:09:17LinusNddalton: #define BATTERY_ON_TXT "PLAY - start"
09:09:21scorchewhich is why i think it might be ROM..
09:09:39amiconnA test would be to boot with the hdd disconnected, and check whether it hangs or complains
09:09:50LinusNand then use BATTERY_ON_TXT instead of the string in the msgs[] array
09:10:03amiconn(not sure what the exact message would be with the OF - I run my archoses flashed for ages...)
09:11:23ddaltonLinusN: would it be ok if I add a check for talk_menus in talk_id so that I don't need to write an if each time?
09:11:48amiconnddalton: Nope
09:11:49LinusNi believe not
09:12:02scorchemy computer detects the USB connection (i hear the sound and get an error in device manager), and ther device's screen freezes
09:12:03LinusNtalk_id() can be used for other purposes
09:12:19amiconnThen it would not be possible to spell filenames when talking menus are disabled
09:12:34ddaltonbut that users talk_spell
09:12:49scorchebut, i shall retry without the drive in a bit
09:13:12LinusNddalton: and talk_spell() uses talk_id()
09:13:21amiconnddalton: Did you check what talk_spell() calls in turn??
09:13:26ddaltonok then
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09:13:36ddaltonamiconn: no
09:13:44ddaltonanyway doesn't matter
09:13:57LinusNddalton: talk.c line 834
09:13:58ddaltonI won't bother with it
09:14:52ddaltonyep I se now
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09:17:35amiconnWe could have a wrapper that does the check though. Would save code size
09:19:12ddaltonLinusN: when you do buttons how many times is the code executed?
09:19:26LinusNddalton: what code?
09:19:42ddaltonit changes a setting and then voices the new setting
09:19:47ddaltonthe one it was changed to
09:20:18psycho_maniaccrap i might have to cut it short tonight. storms a coming :S
09:21:27psycho_maniacthat would so suck if the power shut off while im transfering files
09:21:37LinusNddalton: i think you should show me the code
09:21:53ddaltonok I will upload it
09:22:05*GodEater_ is amazed at how light the S60 is compared to his ipod
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09:26:04ddaltonLinusN: it is at
09:26:43ddaltonthis is stephane's patch from p6188 but I want to make a long press of play toggle the setting in the wps (h300)
09:27:43LinusNddalton: so it says "On" several times, or?
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09:28:31ddaltonLinusN: it says study mode on study mode off. It changes the setting about 6 times
09:28:40ddaltonand talks 6 times
09:28:51LinusNcool :-)
09:28:54ddaltonit ends up changing it to the correct setting
09:30:01LinusNddalton: that's probably because you have no prerequisite in the keymap
09:30:16LinusNso you get button repeats
09:30:20ddaltonLinusN: so what do I need to do?
09:30:34 Quit gpgarrett ("-")
09:31:01LinusNin the ACTION_WPS_STUDY_MODE keymap entry, change the last BUTTON_NONE to BUTTON_ON
09:31:18LinusNthat might work
09:32:21ddaltondoes that mean I can remove my loop variable and the if statement for it?
09:32:51LinusNthat should prevent the multiple actions, yes
09:33:53ddaltonactually that loop variable was useless
09:34:24SlasheriXavierGr: hi, i tried to write you yesterday but probably you missed the message
09:34:30ddaltonit would always be 0 and my code told it to execute if it was 0 so it would always execute
09:34:58*GodEater_ wonders if Slasheri has seen the problem with dircache reported in the forums on ipods with >10K files on them
09:35:20SlasheriGodEater_: havent seen that yet :)
09:36:20GodEater_and apparently nor are you likely to - since the forums are doing their usual trick of failing to work at this time of day
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09:38:31ddaltonLinusN: so how does the keymap file actually work? what arguments do you need for a keymap?
09:39:34LinusNthe action ID, the button combination that triggers the action, and what button combination that has to precede it
09:41:02ddaltonthanks for all of your help LinusN I really appreciate it. It is working great.
09:41:30 Quit kubiix ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
09:42:05GodEater_LinusN: while you're thinking about button maps - where would I got to fix an inconsistency in the ipod sim ?
09:42:08ddaltonwhat do you mean by "button combination that has to precede it"
09:43:00LinusNddalton: it means that for the action to trigger, it has to be preceded by the "prerequisite" button
09:43:05GodEater_ddalton: some button actions require you to have pressed another button first
09:43:41LinusNin your case, the STUDY action triggers only if BUTTON_ON|REPEAT comes after BUTTON_ON
09:44:56ddaltonLinusN: so you could have a keymap that requires play to be pressed and then stop? If so would button_stop go in the argument which is " what button combination that has to precede it"
09:45:40ddaltonso if I was makeing the rec button do something what would I put in the argument " what button combination that has to precede it"?
09:45:54GodEater_ddalton: BUTTON_NONE I think
09:46:03LinusNddalton: you can't define sequences of buttons
09:46:21ddaltonbut then it would loop wouldn't it LinusN?
09:47:10LinusNthe action code remembers the last button event and compares it to the "prereq" entry
09:47:20ddaltonLinusN: so for everything except play I need to use button_none?
09:47:46LinusNon the second button repeat, it would be BUTTON_ON|REPEAT, which doesn't match BUTTON_ON
09:48:36ddaltonso for a long press of rec is this what you would write? { ACTION_STD_REC, BUTTON_REC|BUTTON_REPEAT, BUTTON_NONE },
09:48:53LinusNddalton: then it would loop
09:49:10LinusNuse BUTTON_REC instead of BUTTON_NONE
09:49:28ddaltonok sorry didn't see your message
09:50:44ddaltonis that right?
09:51:33ddaltonLinusN: so for button_off you would put BUTTON_OFF at the end?
09:52:25LinusNddalton: i think you need to understand how it really works
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09:53:01LinusNddalton: the button driver sends events to a queue with the current button status
09:53:37LinusNexample, you press ON, hold it for a while and then release it:
09:54:00DBUGEnqueued KICK LinusN
09:54:15ddaltonof course if button_off exists
09:54:32ddaltonanyway I only want to do a few things with buttons
09:54:45bluebrotherhmm. Is there a way to repeat to a mail on the ml that I haven't got (because I was unsubscribed at that time)?
09:55:12GodEater_bluebrother: I don't think so
09:55:13ddaltonwhat is "BUTTON_REL"?
09:55:15LinusNbluebrother: not really
09:55:20LinusNddalton: release
09:55:34LinusNddalton: the button event is a bit mask
09:55:34ddaltonso when is that used just for a tap?
09:55:41ddaltonnot a hold?
09:55:44bluebrothertoo bad, so I need to start a new thread. I'm wondering why that mail wasn't posted to the dev-ml
09:55:48LinusNddalton: watch:
09:56:06LinusNthat was a tap
09:56:22scorchebluebrother: i would imagine you could if you manually edited the header
09:56:23LinusNso you can trap both the press and the release of a button
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09:56:49bluebrotherscorche: urgh. I though about that myself but I don't think it's worth the hassle ...
09:56:56GodEater_scorche: but he'd need the header in the first place - the full one
09:56:59ddaltonok and you would change BUTTON_REL to BUTTON_ON for a long press?
09:57:18LinusNddalton: BUTTON_REL and BUTTON_REPEAT are qualifiers
09:57:29ddaltono yeah sorry
09:57:31LinusNBUTTON_ON is a button
09:57:53LinusNwe use BUTTON_REPEAT to detect long presses
09:57:59ddaltonand at the end if I don't want it to loop I use BUTTON_ON not BUTTON_NONE?
09:58:12ddaltonok sorry
09:58:27LinusNddalton: watch the first example i gave you
09:59:01LinusNthat is the sequence of events the action handler gets from the button driver
09:59:05ddaltonwhere it says "<LinusN> use BUTTON_REC instead of BUTTON_NONE"
09:59:26LinusNddalton: i'll show you again:
10:00:01LinusNthat was a long press with a subsequent release
10:00:32ddaltonso "BUTTON_REPEAT" is a long press?
10:01:04ddaltonand "BUTTON_REL" is a tap?
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10:01:31LinusNddalton: you get BUTTON_REL when the user releases the button
10:01:53ddaltonLinusN: ok so how do we detect a tap?
10:02:22scorcheddalton: he has answered all this before...
10:02:31LinusNddalton: you can choose to trigger on the button press, or on the release
10:03:05LinusNi.e either { ACTION_EXAMPLE, BUTTON_ON, BUTTON_NONE }
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10:03:24CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
10:03:24*bluebrother wants "customizable menus" being part of the NODO ...
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10:03:38ddaltonok so this is a tap (from the keymap file) { ACTION_STD_OK, BUTTON_ON|BUTTON_REL, BUTTON_NONE },
10:03:52ddaltonand I would change button_none to button_on to stop it looping?
10:04:16LinusNtaps never loop
10:04:30LinusNsince you only get the event once
10:04:32ddaltonok so then what I said is that ok the first one
10:04:43LinusNthat works
10:05:01ddaltonok good I think I have a bit of an understanding thanks LinusN
10:05:07LinusNyou're welcome
10:05:09ddaltonis there anything else I should know?
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10:05:44 Quit psycho_maniac (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:05:45LinusNddalton: lots! :-)
10:07:27GodEater_is anyone else in here "qualified" to have a look at aliask's usb log of the gigabeat V firmware update talking to a Gigabeat S ?
10:07:57ddaltonLinusN: what else is there to learn with buttons?
10:08:22LinusNddalton: just joking, if you get the concept of actions, you are all set
10:08:32ddaltonok good
10:10:53pondlifeLinusN: You mentioned that you'd increased the thumbnail buffer size to 64K, but I still get 32K from SVN....
10:11:06GodEater_I've given said log a quick look, and it appears to mainly consist of the content of the firmware upgrade
10:11:28GodEater_so the important stuff looks to be near the beginning where it sets up the transfer
10:11:36GodEater_and possible near the end where it commits it ?
10:11:49TMMGodEater_, well, 'qualified' no, but I'm interested to have a peek, no promises though
10:11:58GodEater_pondlife: that'll be the #ifdef PONDLIFES_PC
10:12:40GodEater_TMM: let me upload it somewhere with a bit more bandwidth than aliask's home PC
10:12:57TMMGodEater_, ok
10:13:20TMMGodEater_, I'm @work, so it'll be a tad slow
10:13:24GodEater_TMM: it's 15MB ish
10:13:25LinusNpondlife: odd, my commit must have failed
10:13:38amiconnGodEater: dircache disables itself if the buffer would become too large. That's intended behaviour
10:13:53pondlifeLinusN: That's what I suspected.
10:14:02TMMGodEater_, np
10:14:08GodEater_amiconn: did you tell psycho_maniac this when he reported it here yesterday ?
10:14:16LinusNpondlife: committed now
10:14:53amiconnThe buffer limit is 6MB iirc. No fixed file count, it depends on the average length of file/folder names
10:15:08GodEater_amiconn: of course
10:15:31GodEater_is it worth increasing the buffer limit on the 64MB ipods ?
10:15:51pondlifeI still get "Scanning disk..." for no obvious reason very often on boot. Is this likely to be related?
10:16:00GodEater_since we have a bit more memory to play with
10:16:05GodEater_pondlife: I get that too
10:16:10GodEater_Llorean tells me it's normal
10:16:15GodEater_I didn't feel like arguing with him
10:16:29GodEater_TMM: 50% uploaded
10:16:37pondlifeI thought it was only meant to happen if there had been use of USB.
10:16:52GodEater_pondlife: but how does Rockbox know if there's been USB or not on the ipod ?
10:17:01GodEater_(this is Llorean's argument btw)
10:17:05pondlifeNo idea, but I have an H300
10:17:10ddaltoncan my fix for b7893 be committed?
10:17:23GodEater_pondlife: ah - I see. I shall be quiet now then ;)
10:18:16GodEater_IIUC the H300 should be able to tell when there's been USB activity or not - so I'm guessing you have a fault
10:18:38ddaltonwhat do people think of p6188? Should the button stuff not be there?
10:18:42pondlifeHaha, it does it every other time..
10:18:48pondlifeOne on, one off
10:18:52LinusNGodEater: not if you have used bootloader USB mode
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10:19:23pondlifeWell, I'm just starting up then closing down, with no USB involved
10:19:29GodEater_isn't the bootloader on the H300 under our control as well though ?
10:20:05pondlifeYes, but it doesn't communicate with the main firmware AFAIK
10:20:16GodEater_I see
10:20:22LinusNGodEater: of course it is, we just need to find a way for it to signal to rockbox that it has been in usb mode
10:20:31LinusNfor example the eeprom
10:20:45pondlifeYep, every other time... I'll see if I can add some logfs.
10:20:49GodEater_is this the same as the behaviour with the H100 bootloader ?
10:20:58LinusNshould be
10:21:30ddaltonLinusN: What files do I add the action case in forbutton_ rec? I want it to work in the file browser wps and radio
10:21:39LinusNddalton: i think the wps context menu is better
10:22:07ddaltonLinusN: are you talking about p6188?
10:22:49ddaltonok well I have no idea on how to do that but do you think the button should then be removed?
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10:23:26GodEater_if anyone has clues on USB and MTP, I'd appreciate help with translating that log too :)
10:24:51ddaltonLinusN: so where do all the case statements go for making the rec button do something? (radio, file browser, alarm screen (maybe) and wps
10:26:11TMMGodEater_, downloadin'
10:26:20TMMGodEater_, got a link to the firmware that's being uploaded as well?
10:27:53LinusNddalton: you define an action in the keymap files, and add the appropriate cases in the places where actions are handled
10:28:28LinusNjust like p6188
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10:29:44ddaltonLinusN: so what files are the actions handled in? I know about the wps but I don't know: radio and file browser
10:29:45GodEater_TMM: I don't - it's linked in the wiki on the Gigabeat S info page, but it's on rapidshare
10:30:11TMMGodEater_, HTML?
10:30:36LinusNddalton: apps/tree.c and apps/recorder/radio.c
10:31:19GodEater_TMM - yes the log is in HTML format
10:31:30TMMGodEater_, awesome....
10:32:25*linuxstb was thinking the same - html seems an unhelpful choice
10:32:51TMMlinuxstb, it's got pretty formatting
10:33:02ddaltonok and I my as well do the playlist viewer and I have located the code
10:33:06GodEater_doesn't look so bad to me
10:33:22linuxstbTMM: Yes, just what less/grep/awk/etc want to see...
10:33:54TMMGodEater_, I'll look at it later, this will take too long
10:34:35GodEater_and turn off greedy matching however you do it
10:34:38*GodEater_ can't remember
10:34:51GodEater_thanks rasher ;)
10:35:01rasherThat's not turning off greedy matching of course
10:35:06GodEater_indeed not
10:35:12GodEater_but it's a nicer regexp than mine
10:35:21ddaltonhow do I get to the radio? is there a function like gotoradio ()
10:35:23*linuxstb uses lynx -dump
10:35:27GodEater_I couldn't remember if you needed to escape the <> either
10:35:40GodEater_linuxstb: what exactly are you grepping for anyway ?
10:35:49TMMGodEater_, it's just not as nice to compare it with a hex editor, that's all
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10:36:06TMMGodEater_, at home I have a dual screen setup, then it won't be as painful
10:36:14linuxstbGodEater: Nothing yet, I just always prefer plain text...
10:36:28GodEater_linuxstb: well you could always make your own dump as soon as you get your S ;)
10:36:44*ddalton goes for dinner
10:39:00GodEater_if you come near the city today you could come and collect it :)
10:39:18 Quit bluebrother ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
10:41:30*GodEater_ personally likes the html format, since it breaks up the messages nicely
10:41:42GodEater_if this were a pure hexdump, I wouldn't have a scooby what I was looking at
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10:45:44*ddalton is back
10:46:09ddaltonI am going to write a function used by several files. Where should it go?
10:46:30GodEater_what will it do ?
10:47:26ddaltonGodEater_: voice some info and maybe display it.
10:47:34ddaltonactually probably not
10:47:44ddaltondisplay it
10:48:06GodEater_what sort of info ?
10:48:23ddaltonbattery level time date and free disk space but only voice
10:49:48TMMGodEater_, well, I'd have preferred plain text
10:51:06ddaltoncan I put it anywhere and just include the file?
10:53:18ddaltonLinusN: how do I make rockbox open the radio? what function will take me there?
10:53:57LinusNddalton: radio_screen()
10:54:20ddaltonLinusN: how did you find that so quickly?
10:54:41LinusNi wrote the radio code :-)
10:55:05ddaltonoh ok
10:56:24ddaltonLinusN: is this how I include radio.h? #include "/record/radio.h"
10:58:28LinusNddalton: no, just #include "radio.h"
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11:01:19ddaltonLinusN: from any file in apps like playlist_viewer?
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11:02:42ddaltonok good
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11:05:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:11:45musehello everyone! i know this is ridiculous but im desperately trying to find the name of the thing that bellamy uses on feeling good to change his voice on 1:45
11:12:29rashermuse: please take off-topic chatter elsewhere (see the topic)
11:12:40*bluebrother suggests #rockbox-community
11:12:53museim not english, please give me some help
11:13:53bluebrothermuse: this is off-topic here. Please use a different channel −− try #rockbox-community
11:14:10museoh well
11:14:18bluebrotherbesides, this thing looke pretty much like a small megaphone
11:14:41bluebrotherbut that's _really_ OT.
11:14:48museyea i know
11:14:56museand i appreciate the help very much
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11:26:50pondlifeLinusN (or anyone): Currently, the talk thumbnail buffer is always allocated. Perhaps it should only be allocated if thumbnails might be used (i.e. file or dir .talk clips are enabled in settings)?
11:27:18amiconnpondlife: How would you handle the case that talk clips are enabled later?
11:27:30LinusNyes, probably, but then you have to reboot if you enable it
11:27:46pondlifeCould it not stop/restart playback?
11:28:08amiconnThere was talk about a global reallocation scheme several times
11:28:16amiconnNobody went ahead and coded it...
11:28:22peturI wouldn't mind requiring reboot. It's not something you change every day and you already must reboot for dircache...
11:28:31pondlifeIt needs a buffer_alloc, but that can come from the audio buffer... there wouldn't be any freeing up when disabled of course
11:28:49pondlifeuntil a reboot, I mean
11:28:57amiconnI disagree. I often change that setting. I have voice enabled for in-car use, but disdabled otherwise
11:29:11pondlifeMe too
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11:36:54preglowhmm, how complicated would global realloc be?
11:40:03pondlifeMight be easier with Nico_P's more-contained buffering?
11:40:03ddaltonLinusN: what do I need to remove to stop rec from going to the recording screen?
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11:40:58preglowpondlife: maybe, but not by much, i think
11:41:16pondlifeEasier, but not easy.. :)
11:41:44ddaltondoes the rec button only go to the rec screen in the file browser?
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11:42:48*ddalton Is ready for compile errors
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11:54:11bluebrotherddalton: on the h100 / h300 it does with a long press on rec.
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11:59:09ddaltonhow do I fix this warning?
11:59:12ddalton"tree.c:616: warning: implicit declaration of function `radio_screen' "
12:00:01n1sddalton: include whatever header file has the prototype for that function
12:02:05ddaltonthanks that explains it
12:02:30ddaltonn1s: can I include a c file to get access to a certain function?
12:02:36ddaltonthere is no h file
12:03:51n1sddalton: including c files are bad, if you need a prototype that doesn't exist you have to make one :-)
12:03:56preglowin the "the matrix" sense of things? :P
12:04:15n1spreglow: ah, that complicates things ;-)
12:05:12ddaltonn1s: ok
12:05:36amiconnddalton: (1) There is a .h file that has the radio_screen() prototype. (2) You should never include .c files. (3) Afaiu radio_screen() shouldn't be called directly. If you want the Record button to go to the radio screen, you should go through the main menu state machine
12:05:41ddaltonLinusN: how can I voice the disk size with out copying all the code from main_menu.c?
12:06:12ddaltonamiconn: why can't I use "radio_screen ();?
12:06:15Nico_Prasher: did you know JdGordon has worked on mouse handling for the sim ?
12:06:41rasherNico_P: Yeah, but that's different afaik. He's working on handling mouseclicks on the screen
12:06:52rasherbut I suppose the patches might conflict
12:07:01Nico_Prasher: ah, yours is on the background image ?
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12:07:12Nico_Pah, nice :)
12:07:25rasherGenerate the button event associated with the button that lies in the area you clicked
12:07:42rasher(only works for the h120 sim right now, because working out all the x and y values is a pain)
12:07:55Nico_PI can imagine
12:08:28rasherNot sure if there's an easier way. It works out to a lot of code
12:10:08rasherI guess it'd be possible to write some macro-magic that made it less annoying
12:12:23bluebrotherwhy macro magic? A lookup table should do too
12:14:33rasherI suppose. Feel free to improve my current if-horror
12:14:58rasherFS #7894
12:15:28preglowi guess we'll be seeing an icon version of the main menu soon
12:15:55preglowwell, for the mrobe touch screen thingie
12:15:57bluebrotherbecause of the m:robe?
12:16:15preglowall these touchy feely daps have icon menus :)
12:16:25bluebrothernooo ... then users will scream about not having it on the other players
12:16:40preglowwhat for? navigating icons with ordinary controls? sounds impractical
12:16:48preglowusers can port it themselves :>
12:17:23rasherpreglow: Don't know about that, the icon menu on my phone (nokia) works rather well
12:17:34preglowmine as well, now that you mention it...
12:17:41rashereven saves a few keypresses since it's a grid, rather than a list
12:17:50preglowyeah, i made mine a grid, it's a setting
12:17:50Lloreanpreglow, bluebrother: I still don't see why it won't work on normal players
12:17:52*bluebrother is glad his mobile phone doesn't have an icon menu
12:17:56LloreanAt least for the "Root" or "Main" menu
12:18:08LloreanIn "Icon" mode, the text is removed, and icons from your iconset are distributed across a grid.
12:18:21bluebrotherwell, if would work, sure.
12:18:32LloreanHolding "Down" or "Up" increments or decrements your column at the bottom/top so you can cycle through the whole list with a wheel easily still
12:18:51preglowso, it seems i've just come up with another preglow brand Stellar Idea, eh? :P
12:20:35bluebrotherjust don't beautify Rockbox −− it will loose its congeniality
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12:22:41preglowwe should add some warts here and there instead, then :)
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12:23:32LloreanOne significant problem is the icons though
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12:23:41preglowLlorean: in what way?
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12:23:56bluebrotheryou can't tell the user "use the Settings entry" anymore
12:24:30preglowsure we can, the current icon could be described at the top of the screen or something
12:24:33ddaltonn1s: do you know how to make the player voice the battery level?
12:24:36preglowcould and should
12:24:52ddaltonI mean disk free info sorry
12:24:54bluebrotheryou know users wont read that part of the description / manual ...
12:25:27n1sddalton: those are already voiced in the info screen, you could look at that
12:25:35preglowsheesh, if apple can do this with THEIR user base, so can we :P
12:25:45preglowwe just need to do it properly
12:26:00bluebrotherthey have paid support guys :P
12:26:04ddaltonok it seems to be alot of code though and I want to just speak it when I hold rec. I don't want to go to the info screen
12:26:11ddaltonbut I will look
12:27:01preglowseriously, if they can't figure out an icon grid...
12:27:11pondlifeHmm, any menu/settings experts around?
12:27:30preglowi think there's only one expect, and that's jdgordon
12:27:36pondlifeI feared as much :)
12:27:48preglowexpert, even
12:28:12pondlifeI need a routine to be called when the .talk file settings are changed, a la setcrossfadeonexit_callback()
12:28:22pondlifeBut I can't quite work it out..
12:28:40n1sddalton: turn the existing code int a function that can be called from elesewhere and call it then, duplication is bad
12:28:41rasherbluebrother: what preglow meant was that the currently selected icon is described at the top or bottom of the screen with text. So you can always see the name of your current selection
12:28:59bluebrotheriirc JdGordon started documenting the menu thingy in the wiki somewhere
12:29:20pondlifeAh, yes - will look
12:29:25bluebrotherrasher: ah. Still something I would dislike for using. Too slow.
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12:29:55ddaltonn1s: I have written some code and when I hold down rec for a long press it executes the long press and then the code for the short press. How can I make it just run the code for a long press when I press and hold rec?
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12:30:37Lloreanpreglow: Sorry, having connection woes
12:30:50n1sddalton: I'm not too familiar with the button code, either experiment yourself or ask JdGordon
12:31:06ddaltonLinusN: do you know?
12:31:06Lloreanpreglow: First, that icons suitable for an icon grid aren't suitable for a list, and some screens are going to still be better served as a list. Mainly this just means users need small and large iconsets
12:31:30Lloreanpreglow: Second it seems you already mentioned, that it'd be nice to have a string at the top or bottom of the screen describing the highlighted icon
12:32:50preglowLlorean: sure, i wasn't counting on reusing the list icons
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12:33:04rasherbluebrother: what? it's faster than a list
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12:33:40bluebrotherno −− I don't see where I need to go to. Icons are confusing
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12:33:56preglowyou know where you want to go to after the initial attempts
12:34:09preglowand those aren't any slower if you just scroll through the icons as if it was a list
12:34:14Lloreanbluebrother: For the main menu they're not particularly confusing, since there's only unique icons there, for example.
12:34:17bluebrotheronly for items I select frequently
12:34:33preglowyeah, sure, but with the description at the top of the menu, you see where you're going
12:34:36preglowthere's nothing blind about this
12:34:46bluebrotherwell, icons need to be unique of course.
12:34:56preglowitems you select frequently are the most important ones anyway
12:35:04bluebrotherstill, it's much faster using a list IMO.
12:35:15preglowthat's physically impossible :D
12:35:32ddaltonpetur: can you help me with some code if I upload it?
12:35:39preglowone right, two down is fewer keypressed than six down
12:35:47preglowkeypresses, yes
12:35:54GodEater_I can't find any decent docs on MTP
12:36:11bluebrothergiven that you can navigate four-way.
12:36:13n1sit probably depends on the input device, a wheel is better suited to lists IMHO while directional buttons/joystick works well in grids
12:36:37preglowyeah, agreed
12:36:47preglowi really think we can have both
12:36:49bluebrotherbut when searching for the icon one right two down I need to "scan" all columns
12:36:50LloreanGodEater_: It's a microsoft protocol, there may not be any.
12:37:04GodEater_Llorean: indeed - that's been my surmise too :(
12:37:09preglowsure, like you need to scan a list
12:37:13Lloreann1s: The advantage of a grid is that it can be treated like a list for browsing still
12:37:18GodEater_though apparently bits of it are being pushed into USB to make it a standard
12:37:18preglowanyway, it surely is a preference thing
12:37:22GodEater_so I'd expect to find them somewhere
12:37:42preglowand i need to go right now
12:37:43preglowso long
12:37:51LloreanThere are a few parts of MTP I don't mind the idea of.
12:37:54bluebrothera list has only one column ...
12:38:01LloreanLike a device being able to make it known to the host what formats it supports.
12:38:17GodEater_Llorean: I like the fact it's filesystem agnostic too
12:38:21ddaltonok what am I doing wrong here?
12:39:32Lloreanbluebrother: A multi-column grid can still be browsed linearly if when you go off the right edge of the screen (or the bottom edge) it increments to the next row/column
12:40:05bluebrotherI just don't think it's superiour in any way.
12:40:28bluebrother(and it wouldn't work nicely on non-color targets or targets with small displays)
12:40:28desowindoes rockbox support unicode in filenames? it works for me nice with unicode ID3 tags, but not with filenames
12:40:46bluebrotherFAT only supports USC-2 for filenames
12:40:54Lloreanbluebrother: But it's probably very much superior for the touchscreen target.
12:41:14bluebrotherwell, who wants a touchscreen dap anyway? :P
12:41:17Lloreanbluebrother: And people seem to like the "Giant List" appearance of the sansa firmware. =/ So it'd probably please eyecandy people
12:41:32bluebrotherit would indeed.
12:41:52ddaltonhas anyone seen my code?
12:41:52bluebrotherone just needs to think about all those unsupported builds using eyecandy stuff.
12:42:00LloreanI see it as an appeasing feature that's unlikely to cause too many problems, if the grid can be generated from the existing lists somehow.
12:42:40bluebrotherwell, it's just something like an icon view for a list. Fe. Qt has something like this.
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12:50:20pondlifeOK, one for JdGordon at some point: What does the setting flag F_TEMPVAR do?
12:50:29pondlifeNothing much, apparently...
12:51:59pondlifeI'd guess it determines whether the option is changed immediately, or on exit from the option, but I'm not sure.
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12:58:17amiconnImo, if an icon needs text to describe it, the icon misses its main (and only) purposes, and you're better off with a list anyway
12:59:14desowinbluebrother: thanks
12:59:48n1samiconn: quick ARM question, will int val = function_that_returns_int() be faster than int var = function that returns short?
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13:01:11amiconnAt least it won't be slower
13:01:37n1samiconn good, it improves speed somewht on coldfire at least :-)
13:01:57amiconnIn general, one should use int wherever possible, instead of explicit sizes
13:02:11Lloreanamiconn: For the main menu, the icons can easily be unique for each entry. But M:Robe users may want iconified filetree browsing, somewhat like Windows Explorer.
13:02:38amiconnWho actually browses by icon??
13:03:17LloreanCrazy peope?
13:03:41LloreanBut I have no doubt we'll get people wanting the option for non-main menus (which feature a lot of icon repetition) and browser/database.
13:05:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:05:38amiconnCellphones often have an iconfied main menu, but I never saw icon-based submenus
13:06:11peturddalton: sorry I was away and sorry I have no time at all
13:07:59Lloreanamiconn: Neither have I, that I can think of, but I'd still bet there will be requests for such if any icon-based menu goes in.
13:09:08amiconnWe don't have to accept every feature request...
13:12:54ddaltonamiconn: where should a function that will voice and display the disk free info go?
13:12:57ddaltonwhat file?
13:14:16jhMikeSamiconn: On H10, if I remove the changing of CLCD_CLOCK_SRC when scaling. This plugin will not crash the player. I could only get a couple hundred tests at the most out of it initially (usually much less) but with the change it ran 80000 before I gave up and is currently at 10000 doing another run.
13:14:33ddaltonpetur: where should a function go that displays and speaks the disk free info?
13:14:37ddaltonwhat file?
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13:15:55jhMikeSnow at 15000 btw
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13:16:04peturif it is only used in one place, in the file that contains the display code. If used elsewhere, in misc.c or maybe a new file for all voice stuff
13:16:25amiconnjhMikeS: Maybe, but the problem is that if you leave the CLCD clock source at 0b11, it *will* hang on clock change, and if you leave it at 0b00, it won't, but lcd updates will be *much* slower
13:16:28ddaltonok I will put it in misc.c it is used in two files currently.
13:16:34ddaltonand it also displays stuff
13:16:40amiconn(as the controller is the clocked from the 24MHz source instead of the PLL)
13:17:40amiconnBut that gives a hint about what is going wrong on clock change.
13:18:05jhMikeSI left it as set by lcd_init_device
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13:19:20jhMikeSWell, it's utterly uncrashable now. And the LCD isn't left in and slow status ether.
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13:19:54amiconnLet that test on ipod color... it will hang pretty soon
13:20:20amiconn...and it uses the same colour LCD bridge
13:20:24jhMikeSMaybe change the clock source's source, but not fiddle with CLCD_CLOCK_SRC?
13:20:37jhMikeScan you do that?
13:20:55ddaltonn1s: there is alot of code to get the disk free info. And it is mixed in with finding out the disk size. I can't work out what is needed and what isn't.
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13:21:06ddaltonDo you know the simplest way to find out the disk free info?
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13:21:17amiconnjhMikeS: Run test_fps.rock with and without your change, with the cpu boosted
13:21:19jhMikeSDoes CLCD_CLOCK_SRC tell it to use one of clock src #1-#4?
13:21:26n1sddalton: I have no idea, sorry
13:21:34ddaltonok thanks anyway
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13:23:25amiconnAfaict, CLCD_CLOCK_SRC is similar to the CLOCK_SOURCE bits
13:23:28jhMikeS CLCD_CLOCK_SRC |= 0xc0000000; /* Set LCD interface clock to PLL */ is left in place though in lcd_init_device. but I'll do that.
13:23:42amiconn00b is 24MHz, 11b is PLL, 01b and 10b are unknown
13:24:43amiconnThat's something I don't understand. If you leave those bits at 11b, it should hang on clock change...
13:26:39amiconn(on PP5020 targets with colour LCD, i.e. ipod color and both H10s)
13:28:43jhMikeSmaybe it has to do with other recent changes in combination?
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13:29:41jhMikeSFPS seems fine
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13:36:58jhMikeSView HW Info verifies it's actually switching too
13:43:01ddaltonn1s can you commit b7893?
13:43:07ddaltonI wrote a patch for it
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13:47:01n1sddalton: I'll look into it
13:47:22ddaltonn1s: it is a really small one. It just changes a message on the screen
13:47:28ddalton0.8 kb
13:47:33ddaltonthe patch is
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13:49:15LinusNddalton: i have a more complete version of that
13:49:29ddaltonoh ok then what does yours do?
13:49:52LinusNit makes the text platform specific
13:50:16LinusNwill commit in a second
13:50:55n1sgreat, I'll leave it alone then :-)
13:52:45LinusNand solved
13:54:50TMMO noes! we had bugs?
13:55:15LinusNhush, don't tell anyone...
13:55:22n1sTMM: yup there was only one, all the other ~180 in the tracker are just duplicates
13:55:35TMMah, thank god
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14:00:13TMMWell, I'm glad it's bugfree once again
14:00:17TMMdon't let it happen again!
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14:13:06pixelmaLinusN: I wouldn't call that bugfree (at least not for everyone) :P
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14:16:03amiconnn1s: That for () loop is odd... it could be replaced by a simple if (MAX_VOICES%2)
14:16:55n1samiconn: yes, you are right, i clearly wasn't thinking, but as it is now it isn't even compiled in
14:17:14amiconn...or even put in an #if MAX_VOICES % 2 block
14:17:35n1syeah, maybe that is a little clearer
14:17:37amiconnThen you won't rely on gcc optimising it away
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14:19:46n1sI think I made it that way because I was testing unrolling of the loop with different factors
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14:23:15n1samiconn: ok, fix committed
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14:40:28amiconnLinusN: RED...
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15:20:17|Rain|heh. the a52 decoder loves it some boost
15:23:16n1s|Rain|: have you tried the svn midiplayer today, it uses 16 voices for pp targets now and should be a little faster than yesterday too so it might actually just skip a little now :-)
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15:26:44RaZorbacKhello all. please could someone tell me where is the quick screen with an iaudio x5
15:27:12amiconnn1s: I tried midiplay on my 2nd gen this morning. Still loads of skipping...
15:28:54n1samiconn: hmm, I guess we need to either start using the COP or get the performance critical parts written in asm for this to be usable on pp then at least afaics
15:28:58pondlifeHm ,the Sansa e200R is now supported officially... :)
15:30:51|Rain|n1s: I saw you had taken it all the way down to 16... I tried 18 yesterday and it was still a little annoying, but I haven't tried 16
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15:32:28|Rain|the bootloader's not working for me again on e200...
15:32:40 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:32:47|Rain|I fell asleep last night stepping back through revisions, but I think I got to 14920 with it still being broken
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15:33:48jhMikeS|Rain|: did you test my patched one?
15:34:12|Rain|jhMikeS: patched how?
15:34:19|Rain|(i.e. probably not)
15:34:28jhMikeSno hotswap support at all. just really basic
15:34:37jhMikeSbut for the bootloader only of course
15:34:53|Rain|I don't think I've tried that, no... where's the patch?
15:35:08|Rain|I already ripped out some of hte hotswap support in the bootloader
15:35:18|Rain|I just haven't managed to submit it to FS yet
15:35:27jhMikeSI didn't do some. Others already reported success.
15:35:40jhMikeSone moment
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15:40:22|Rain|I don't have any sort of SD inserted, but I can certainly give it a shot
15:40:36|Rain|especially since I've already had to remove part of the hotswap code
15:40:38jhMikeSI don't think it matters.
15:41:02jhMikeSIt makes no attempt to check for the card nor enables the interrupt.
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15:56:14|Rain|+++ bootloader/main-pp.c
15:56:17|Rain|- ata_read_sectors(0, pinfo->start + i, 1, sector);
15:56:17|Rain|+ ata_read_sectors(IF_MV2(0,) pinfo->start + i, 1, sector);
15:56:22|Rain|to go along with your patch
15:56:48|Rain|it's #if 0'd out in the tree, but your changes will break it if it's reenabled
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15:59:57n1sjhMikeS: have you seen FS #7780 it seems to me like renaming the sd card volume should be disbled
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16:02:34jhMikeSn1s: no, but I'll look
16:03:08jhMikeS|Rain|: ah. I wonder why it compiled?
16:03:50XavierGrSlasheri: sorry but it seems that my connection dies frequently, so I will ask this here.
16:04:28jhMikeS|Rain|: Never mind. So busy here I forgot to read your other sentence. :)
16:04:32|Rain|heh :P
16:05:33jhMikeS|Rain|: did it actually boot for you?
16:06:34 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
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16:06:48|Rain|just tried it
16:06:49|Rain|and uh...
16:06:52jhMikeSI think volume paths should simply be device numbers: //0/file //1/file //2/file
16:06:52|Rain|it made it farther...
16:07:11|Rain|but it failed to find rockbox.mi4
16:07:30|Rain|(it did list the partitions fine, though)
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16:08:01|Rain|it did manage to boot the OF, though
16:09:04jhMikeS|Rain|: you have a clean SVN checkout and the bl build with no mods other than the patch?
16:09:10XavierGr_Slasheri: do you think of anything that can go wrong by flashing H115? Also is it okay to just open the bootloader.bin with the iriver_flash plugin?
16:09:37|Rain|jhMikeS: I undid my BL patches, but I do have other changes... I'm double-checking that none of them matter
16:10:41pondlifeSlasheri: If XavierGr_ did get your attention, you might also want to look at (and
16:10:54jhMikeSWhy not diff them, patch -p0 -R them then try the BL?
16:12:13jhMikeSn1s: them when we rename a volume, we really set the volume label. if the FAT driver won't support that yet, it ought to.
16:12:21|Rain|'cause one of them it definitely necessary to make the BL work for me, but I think I can work around that
16:13:12jhMikeSso you tried a clean svn with my patch and it didn't work?
16:14:01 Quit pondlife ("disconnected has pondlife")
16:14:18|Rain|I'm working on that now
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16:24:40agm3nt|Rain|: on c200 latest bootloader is working
16:26:57 Quit agm3nt ()
16:28:57|Rain|clean svn is working for me, but I also did make clean and nuked my ccache cache just to be sure, so I may end up with both the source tree I started with and a working bootloader in a few minutes
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16:38:18SlasheriXavierGr_: ok, back now
16:38:46SlasheriXavierGr_: yes, the memory is not mapped correctly. Flashing a H115 bootloader on H140 shouldn't be fatal but the other way around it can be
16:39:11XavierGr_ok then I should stay away
16:39:38Slasheriflashing bootloader.bin shouldn't be possible directly.. i will check
16:39:38XavierGr_another question:
16:40:14Slasheriyeah, that's not possible. It should say unknown file type
16:40:57Slasheribootloader.iriver is automatically generated by compiling the BL
16:41:00XavierGr_config-h100.h doesn't have the #define HAVE_EEPROM or the HAVE_FLASHED_ROCKBOX does this have to do with it?
16:41:18Slasheriyeah, that needs to be enabled too
16:41:26XavierGr_Slasheri: building the bootloader I only get the bootloader.bin (but let me check that)
16:41:48Slasherihmm.. probably you have to hack the Makefile too..
16:41:59|Rain|I can't believe how many gcc bugs I've been slapped in the face with while hacking on rockbox
16:42:23XavierGr_Slasheri: even when I compile the H120/140 bootloader I don't get the bootloader.iriver
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16:42:43|Rain|it's positively maddening
16:42:54SlasheriXavierGr_: well, maybe i have forgotten something.. it's a long time i have compiled it.. let me check
16:43:10Slasherihaa, found it. =)
16:43:13jhMikeSsomehow I just automatically do thing that avoid trouble. it comes naturally after awhile.
16:43:39Slasherihmm, it should generate bootloader.iriver
16:43:45|Rain|the #if 0'd section for the hidden partition dump... if I change that to a #if 1, the bootloader reboots well before that code is even executed
16:43:48|Rain|it's infuriating
16:43:49Slasheriups, rockbox.iriver in fact!
16:44:00Slasheriand that needs to be renamed to bootloader.iriver
16:44:22XavierGr_so the firmware file is flashed by the plugin?
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16:44:49Slasheribut before flashing is possible, the hard-coded checksum inside the plugin needs to be updated
16:45:35*jhMikeS wonders if there's enought stack in the bl for a 512 byte buffer
16:45:37Slasheriyou may try that with compiled version of the H115 bootloader but be prepared it can brick the player
16:45:43XavierGr_Slasheri: but... the compiled firmware file has nothing to do with bootloader.bin
16:45:56Slasherithat compiled "firmware" is the bootloader
16:46:04Slasheriwhen you compile the bootloader
16:46:30Slasheriso rockbox.iriver is bootloader.bin, it just contains the extra header
16:46:52XavierGr_Slasheri: when I compile the bootloader (configure - 12 - b) I get the bootloader.bin not the rockbox.iriver or the bootloader.iriver that you have in the wiki
16:47:06Slasheriyou should get rockbox.iriver
16:47:08Slashericheck again
16:47:31XavierGr_ah yes, I get it on the root of the compilation
16:48:01XavierGr_so the rockbox.iriver is the bootloader.bin with the checksum?
16:48:20|Rain|jhMikeS: heh. I moved that up to the top of the if to make sure it wasn't being dumb about the lazy declaration
16:48:25Slasheriyes, with a _simple_ checksum and length
16:48:37Slasherithe better crc checksum is hardcoded inside the plugin
16:49:04XavierGr_Slasheri: the strange thing is (iirc) that when I tried to load the bootloader.bin with iriver_flash plugin, it accepted it as a valid file
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16:49:21|Rain|not enough.
16:49:25jhMikeSthere's 8k of stack there too as in the core so that's not it for sure
16:49:30XavierGr_(I renamed it to bootloader.iriver though)
16:49:43Slasheriso you renamed it before you tried?
16:50:02Slasherithat's ok, because final checks are made after you select yes/play
16:50:06Slasherithen it stops
16:50:38Slasherithe file isn't even loaded loaded until you accept the procedure
16:50:47Slasherithat is to prevent memory corruption
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16:51:14XavierGr_Slasheri: I just tried to load the bootloader compiled rockbox.iriver and the plugin said incompatible bootloader
16:51:21XavierGr_is that coorect behaviour?
16:51:27|Rain|jhMikeS: well, something my patch did that yours doesn't is avoid declaring sd_stack in firmware/target/arm/sandisk/ata-c200_e200.c - maybe the saved stack there was saving me before
16:51:37Slasherithe hardcoded checksum does not match
16:51:45XavierGr_I see...
16:51:58XavierGr_so in order to make it work, I will have to disable the checksum?
16:52:05XavierGr_(and of course pray)
16:52:07Slasheribut keep in mind there is a huge risk to try that
16:52:11|Rain|jhMikeS: I'm not sure that would actually matter, though
16:52:21Slasheriyeah, or calculate a new checksum and add it to the plugin
16:52:55XavierGr_Slasheri: any way to map the memory correctly?
16:52:58|Rain|actually, I know what's happening... you're still calling queue_wait_w_tmo which is what was causing me trouble before
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16:54:06|Rain|queue_wait_w_tmo probably shouldn't happen in the bootloader without interrupts enabled
16:55:25jhMikeSactually, I think ticks should be enabled there but we must first turn off the remapped vectors and use ours, then restore it.
16:55:39|Rain|I'm not sure sd_thread is needed at all without HAVE_HOTSWAP
16:56:21|Rain|I do know that I definitely had trouble with that part of the code being touchy before
16:56:36jhMikeSprobably not but the core won't sleep unless _all_ threads block
16:56:41 Quit bluebrother ("weekend!")
16:57:14|Rain|my partial disabling of the hotswap stuff avoided the thread creation and the sleep following it in the bootloader
16:57:45SlasheriXavierGr_: compiling the H115 has the memory mapped correctly
16:57:49|Rain|(that's what was working for me before)
16:57:52jhMikeSthere's no real block so nothing should call core_sleep at all. any sleeps should be simple udelays
16:58:23|Rain| /* enable interupt for the mSD card */
16:58:23|Rain| sleep(HZ/10);
16:58:26|Rain|^^^ that
16:58:45|Rain|want me to just try changing it to udelay?
16:58:47jhMikeSI do agree. If we don't dispatch the ata idle calls in the bootloader, then the thread is unnescessary
16:58:58 Quit advcomp2019 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:58:59XavierGr_Slasheri: wait I got confused now. So do you mean that it will probably work with an H115 compiled rockbox.iriver (and the crc corrected)?
16:59:01SlasheriXavierGr_: if you really are going to try it, then i will update a new BL to my H140 as well.. and could finish the few remaining problems for a release
16:59:15Slasherino, don't try that
16:59:16|Rain|you can't avoid that quite as cleanly as your undeffage of HAVE_HOTSWAP, though
16:59:22jhMikeS|Rain|: But see kernel.c line 82
16:59:26XavierGr_Slasheri: yeah that would be nice
16:59:40XavierGr_Slasheri: do you know if Linus has an H110?
16:59:51|Rain|jhMikeS: yeah, I've seen that before
16:59:52Slasheriyes he has
16:59:53 Quit petur ("connection reset by beer")
17:00:09SlasheriXavierGr_: if he isn't too busy, you could ask him to test it first
17:00:28|Rain|jhMikeS: if that switches threads to the one that's waiting with timeout and the tick interrupt is in a questionable state, though...
17:00:29XavierGr_maybe he would be more of a help due to his wiggler
17:00:42 Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@
17:00:48Slasheriindeed, he has no fear of bricking it
17:01:06pondlifeH100 defines HAVE_EEPROM_SETTINGS, but H300 doesn't..., right?
17:01:30jhMikeS|Rain|: It won't block and cause a core sleep because switch_thread is not a blocking call. Trust me on that one. No thread leaves the running list.
17:01:47XavierGr_pondlife: not for H110
17:01:51Slasherih300 has eeprom too, but that can't be used yet because no standalone version of rockbox exists yet
17:01:58XavierGr_H120 has it defined
17:02:08|Rain|jhMikeS: well, all I know for sure is that it's busted and it really shouldn't be :/
17:02:09SlasheriXavierGr_: you must defined that for H110 too before trying the BL
17:02:28|Rain|the bootloader is a lot more fragile than it should be
17:02:28Slasherithat's because H110 flashing hasn't been enabled yet
17:02:32|Rain|(or it just hates me)
17:02:35XavierGr_Slasheri: I've got to run, but maybe I will nag you if something comes up my mind again :P
17:02:45XavierGr_Slasheri: yes already compiled a bootloader with these enabled
17:02:46Slasherinice :)
17:02:58Slasherigreat, but see you :) i will go to eat now
17:03:04XavierGr_bye and thanks
17:03:22 Quit Nimdae ("leaving")
17:03:40pondlifeI'm using the SVN H300 bootloader, and it seems to work well... a release is definitely due (just for reliable USB bootloader mode, if nothing else).
17:04:00jhMikeS|Rain|: one problem is the thread may execute when it's not a good idea to have it do so
17:05:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:05:25jhMikeSI'll use #ifndef BOOTLOADER for than. This driver should probably operate in the core without hotswap just for debugging and such.
17:05:43|Rain|<amiconn> |Rain|: Again, bootloader should be single threaded. If there is code that creates additional threads that is *not* ifdefed away for bootloaders, I'd consider that a bug
17:05:54|Rain|that's what I was told when I was debugging it before
17:06:37*jhMikeS agrees with that and took the first step by making it strictly single-core too
17:07:11|Rain|if you'll have an updated patch soon, I'll happily give it a shot
17:07:22jhMikeSactually it could be no-threaded
17:12:34n1spondlife: what does it do when the charger is inserted while the player is off?
17:13:32jhMikeS|Rain|: (you'll get a little sd_stack not used warning but no worry)
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17:19:08|Rain|bah! now it freezes at the sandisk logo
17:19:28|Rain|let me clean out my tree again
17:20:38n1sthe only annoying thing about the svn bootloader is that it starts the OF when the charger is inserted
17:21:19jhMikeSI'd like that USB doesn't come up just because the cable is inserted either
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17:30:08|Rain|jhMikeS: k, clean tree with that patch freezes on boot
17:30:40pondlifen1s: Boots Rockbox
17:30:51pondlifeAh, no - goes to a charging screen
17:31:01n1spondlife: sweet, that's a lot better :-)
17:31:02pondlifeThen pressing PLAY boots Rockbox
17:31:38pondlifeI think LinusN wanted to get car mode working before release, but I can't really fault this one
17:32:46pondlifeThe only known issue is with petur's H380, which only boots some times.
17:33:35zichoDoes anyone have a toshiba Gigabeat?
17:34:11jhMikeS|Rain|: Where on boot?
17:34:15zichoIn a directory called "My Music" (on the default firmware) there are a bunch of files named after dates. Are they safe to remove?
17:34:25GodEater_also yes
17:34:28|Rain|jhMikeS: at the sandisk logo - before the lcd is even reinitialized
17:34:43zichoGodEater_: Was that directed at me?
17:34:48|Rain|which doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense for the changes made :/
17:34:48toffe82zicho: yes
17:35:16GodEater_zicho: yes they are
17:35:26GodEater_zicho: I did put your name in front of it didn't I ?
17:35:27toffe82zicho: you just need to keep the gwsystem folder from the original firmware
17:36:04zichoGodEater: No, you didnt. Toffe82: Everything else is just to delete, then?
17:36:11jhMikeS|Rain|: got me. actually I didn't try it myself but just plopped-in what you asked me to.
17:37:03GodEater_so the line "zicho: yes they are" doesn't have your name in it ?
17:37:19|Rain|honestly, I think we're dancing around a gcc bug, but I have neither the time nor arm asm knowledge to verify it right now
17:38:07zichoGodEater: I meant when you said "also yes". But nvm.
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17:38:14jhMikeShmmm. I'll just step away and think and maybe something will pop.
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17:41:13Fordiboloin my original i could fast forward/backwards by pushing the click wheel button and then rolling it to the left or right. how can i do it now that i installed rockbox?
17:41:25jhMikeSmaybe verify all data pulled from the RESPONSE_REG is actually halfwords on your device
17:41:41GodEater_Fordibolo: you hold down either left or right to scroll forward/backward through a song
17:41:47toffe82zicho: If I remember there is just music and demo folder ?
17:42:28zichotoffe82: Mine was used, bought it from ebay. The guy i bought it from didnt erase his music. So basically he comitted a crime by selling me the player.
17:42:43zichoIf he doesnt own this.
17:42:50zichothe cooyright, i mean.
17:42:56Fordibolobut cant i do it like i did before? cause then i could put the marker of the song wherever i wanted
17:43:05jhMikeS|Rain|: Maybe use only cop_read_sectors_slow too? not that expect these things to turn out, but you never know.
17:43:11GodEater_Fordibolo: no you can't
17:43:20GodEater_Fordibolo: unless you go back to using the original firmware
17:43:22toffe82zicho: everybody do this, I bought like 15 gigabeat and the music was still here, but I never keep anything
17:43:26Fordibolohell no
17:43:29GodEater_Fordibolo: or unless you implement this function in Rockbox
17:44:42Fordiboloone more thing, how can i shut my machine? earlier i would just pause it and then move the Hold button
17:44:46zichotoffe82: Me neither. What does the error "read failed (chksum)" mean?
17:45:11GodEater_Fordibolo: it would help if you told us which "machine" you have
17:45:44Fordiboloohh sorry, ipod mini gen2, 6gb
17:46:29GodEater_Fordibolo: hold down play/pause for a long time to shutdown
17:46:31toffe82zicho: where ?
17:46:41zichowhen i boot rockbox.
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17:47:31GodEater_Fordibolo: now would you please go and read the manual
17:48:47toffe82zicho: it come before the rockbox screen or after ?
17:49:24zichoits just a white screen, and it says "Rockbox Bootloader"
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17:50:52webguest51any progress on e200r auto-installer for sansa?
17:52:45Fordibolook, thanks
17:52:46 Quit desowin ("use linux")
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17:57:51amiconnpondlife: What do you mean regarding the h300 bootloader?
17:58:15amiconnBootloader USB has always been 100% reliable here...
17:58:33amiconnThe only nastiness is the hdd click afterwards
17:58:44toffe82zicho: missing some files or file corrupt ?
17:59:23zichoworks now
17:59:29zichobut how do i change theme?
18:00:26zichofound it, nvm
18:01:18pondlifeamiconn: For many people (including myself) the wiki-ed H300 bootloader doesn't have a working USB bootloader mode.
18:01:33amiconnHow can that be...
18:02:12amiconnOviously bootloader USB mode works on LinusN's H300 and mine
18:02:25pondlifeYes, it always has on many. But never on some others
18:02:46pondlifeIt has now been fixed by re-ordering the inits
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18:04:07pondlifeamiconn: LinusN knows the detail.
18:04:09chrisjs169question about FS #7692 - does the genuine fix handled in the bootloader, or the actual build?
18:05:09amiconnpondlife: Hmm, but how can the bootloader USB work on some H300s but not on others?
18:05:26pondlifeNo idea, but there's plenty of empirical evidence
18:05:33amiconnI could think of the following (all meaning that we're doing something wrong/incomplete):
18:06:18low_lightjhMikeS: what's the purpose of the for(;;) loop in lv24020lp_begin_write?
18:06:23amiconn* OF version. * some OF setting (e.g. that hub/desktop setting). * actually different hardware revisions
18:06:51pondlifeWell, it's not OF related
18:06:57pondlifeOF version I mean
18:07:12pondlifeAnd we tried all the OF USB modes, but no difference
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18:07:34pondlifeIt was r12514 that fixed it:
18:07:37n1spondlife: only thing i've noticed is that sometimes when I plug in usb wihile it's off it doesn't turn on but a press on the play button makes it work
18:07:57low_lightpixelma: have you tested the plugins on the c200? Both mandelbrot (immedately) and sudoku (after a few moves) freeze screen, backlight on
18:07:58pondlifeWith a SVN bootloader?
18:08:04*amiconn forgot how to boot the OF...
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18:08:13pondlifeHold REC
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18:08:23pondlifeAnd keep PLAY held until the OF boots
18:08:26amiconnThat boots rockbox and clears settings...
18:08:26n1sno with v5 but its' only about 1 in 20
18:08:42amiconnAh, no
18:08:46pondlifeNot in the bootloader
18:08:48amiconnSeems I pressed it too late first
18:09:13amiconnMeh, lowbat -> OF doesn't boot
18:09:24n1sI remember I was so impressed by the startup speed of rockbox when I first installed it :-)
18:09:37pixelmalow_light: got some weird problems with some plugins today right at start, just testing a bit (SVN seemed to be fine but haven't tested longer because I got all the problems at start with my build, except pong had a weird effect too
18:09:52pondlifen1s: I'll be happier when the unwanted dircache rebuilding is fixed...
18:10:05pixelmalow_light: for example I got "Prefetch abort at C0EDBABE" when starting bubbles...
18:10:14*n1s doesn't use dircashe
18:10:32|Rain|jhMikeS: where at? I don't think it's making it anywhere near the ata code, though
18:10:52amiconnI didn't observe unwanted dircache rebuilding lately
18:10:53pixelmaor "Undefined instruction at 00062864" with chopper and sudoku
18:11:07amiconnpondlife: I have OF 1.30 E fwiw
18:11:10pondlifeMe too
18:11:41pixelmalow_light: the build I had on yesterday evening let me play a round of sudoku (unfortunately I can't remember which revision it was exactly)
18:12:00amiconnUSB charging is On and set to Desktop
18:12:08pondlifeThe dircache rebuilding occurs every other time I boot, but only if the disc was active when I shut down, or so it appears.
18:12:21pondlifeamiconn: We tried all 4 combinations, no change.
18:12:29amiconnDo you shutdown from playback, or stop first?
18:12:35pondlifeFrom playback
18:12:38pondlifeHold STOP
18:12:43amiconnThat may explain it...
18:12:52amiconnI *always* stop playback before shutdown
18:13:08amiconnI mean that explains why I didn't observe it lately
18:13:12pondlifeShouldn't matter, it's a Rockbox shutdown, not hardware.
18:13:16low_lightpixelma: I've never gotten any error messages, screen just goes black...actually it's not really frozen as the backlight & buttonlight go off
18:13:34pondlifeAnyway, it's on Flyspray and I'll see if I can trace it some day.
18:13:41amiconnYes, but timing might be different and hence the dircache thread does something wrong
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18:13:59amiconnI have to change the whole shutdown thing anyway...
18:14:07*amiconn is still gathering motivation :/
18:14:40pixelmalow_light: I thought it was an issue with a certain build because SVN seemed to behave differently, do you run your own or did you try SVN too?
18:15:05low_lightpixelma: when I tried jewels, I got an odd screen problem...after a few moves the image in the middle of the screen became static and there were only updates on the top and bottom
18:15:15low_lightI'm running SVN
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18:16:57pixelmasvn build doesn't reboot to OF when plugging in usb, just backlight goes off and buttonlight on - it stays this way even when I unplug again
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18:17:31n1spondlife: if you use voice the player may hang on shutdown from playback so it just sits there and something times out and there's a hard powerdown, maybe we have some kind of race or deadlock in the shutdown from playback which prevents things from getting done before the timeout
18:17:55pondlifeI'm not using voice in this case
18:18:03jhMikeS|Rain|: I don't know. That's one of those things you need to track to exactly how far it gets using a splash or printing some info.
18:18:12low_lightpixelma: I seem to be able to cause the jewels problem when I move off the right to wrap to the left side
18:18:33pixelmabut mandelbrot works for me
18:18:44n1sI just mean that it could be related because when that happens, resume state and changed settings are not saved so I imagine dircache wouldn't be either
18:18:53|Rain|jhMikeS: it's not getting far enough to do that. I just added code to make it blink the wheel light
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18:19:27pondlifeJust tried and I can repro the dircache rebuild without going into playback at all.
18:20:06pondlifeJust start up to the menu or browser and close down immediately. Then repeat. It'll say "Scanning disk..." every other time.
18:20:23amiconnThere's *one* situation when dircache *will* rebuild in the foreground - when shutting down while a background scan is still running
18:20:25pixelmalow_light: no problems with jewels either
18:20:48jhMikeS|Rain|: so did the first patch work or not? you didn't elaborate too much on what happened.
18:21:10pixelmalow_light: latest svn (r.14991)
18:21:14amiconnI reported that bug to Slasheri several times already
18:21:30jhMikeS|Rain|: Or did you just try the provided mi4 file?
18:22:32amiconnpondlife: Not if you let the background scan finish before shutting down
18:22:36*Nico_P is about to test core MoB on his gigabeat for the first time...
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18:23:22pondlifeamiconn: I can let the background scan complete, but if I then repeat it will rebuild even though it had a complete cache... that seems wrong
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18:23:26|Rain|jhMikeS: the first patch did work for me, but as soon as I tried enabling the hidden partition dump, it mysteriously started hanging at the sandisk logo screen (way before any of the code changes were reached)
18:23:41Nico_Pmmmhh audio takes too long to start can optimise later.. just as long as it works
18:24:10amiconnpondlife: Not here, on any target I have dircache enabled on (H180, H340, 2nd gen, 5.5th gen, H10)
18:24:39jhMikeS|Rain|: ah, well that's an improvement over SVN so it should probably go in and the dump worked out separately.
18:24:46markunNico_P: but it does start?
18:24:47Nico_Ppondlife: btw I was wrong when I told you seeking worked a few days back... but now it does
18:24:48chrisjs169jhMikeS, you commited FS #7692, right? (lcd fix on e200s)
18:24:53Nico_Pmarkun: yes :)
18:25:20Nico_Pbasic playback works fine... ie start play and only seek or skip forward
18:25:22amiconnIf it takes long on a gigabeat, how long would it take on a non-overpowered target?
18:25:23markunNico_P: did you fix the problem of the separate metadata caching?
18:25:32Nico_Pand no codec change... I didn't even test that
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18:25:54pondlifeamiconn: OK, so get yourself to a place with an up-to-date dircache, then shut down/restart/shut down/restart all asap... that second restart does a re-scan...
18:25:57Nico_Pamiconn: when I say long, I actually mean a few secs more than the current code
18:26:20Nico_Pit's like 6 instead of 3 or something like that
18:26:23jhMikeSchrisjs169: yes
18:26:29Nico_Pmarkun: what problem ?
18:26:55amiconnThe 3 secs is just from disk spinup. On flash or fast-spinning hdd targets it's <1 sec
18:27:04chrisjs169jhMikeS, does that commit affect the builds, or the bootloader?
18:27:10pixelmalow_light: I was about to test two builds with exactly the same changes like the one that was misbehaving - one built on a different machine and the other with a clean build directory on the same machine) - don't know what it'll bring but I'll report back
18:27:11amiconn(e.g. ipod mini, whose hdd has a spinup time of ~500ms)
18:27:11Nico_Pyeah here it's because of buffering too
18:27:39Nico_Ppondlife: "wow" ? as in "wow how huge" ?
18:27:46chrisjs169jhMikeS, in other words if any bootloader before Sept 5 was used, but the latest Rockbox was used with it, would the glitch appear?
18:27:47pondlifeSadly, yes
18:27:48jhMikeSboth, but the full benefits won't be had with the old v0.2 bootloader since the init code is there.
18:28:03markunNico_P: we've had quite some discussions about it. The ringbuffers in ringbuffer idea which had some problems. Don't you remember?
18:28:08amiconnpondlife: No rescans at all here...
18:28:09jhMikeSchrisjs169: it very well may
18:28:24Nico_Pmarkun: yeah finally I went for a simpler model, but metadata gets moved
18:28:43pondlifeamiconn: Hmm, I can repro easily. H300 SVN bootloader + build...
18:28:46markunNico_P: ok
18:29:00chrisjs169jhMikeS: I think it might, because on ABi, people are saying cpchan's build is the only one without the screen glitch, yet his is the one with one of the other (non-genuine) patches
18:29:08Nico_Pthat makes me think I could reduce the moving by buclosing the current and next metadata handles, ars they're stored in a static struct
18:29:23jhMikeSchrisjs169: does it use that line copy one?
18:29:30*Nico_P times the audio start
18:30:05Nico_PI get just under 6 secs...
18:30:13chrisjs169jhMikeS, uses FS #7438 ( - Cover colored line on new Sansa E200s)
18:30:31pondlifeNico_P: Try with a very long track too?
18:30:38pondlifeSee if that makes it worse?
18:30:55jhMikeSah yes, that one. that doesn't depend on HW init to work. The newer bootloaders should be ok soon and at least boot OF.
18:30:59|Rain|is USEC_TIMER always running on PP platforms, or does it need to be enabled by the bootloader first?
18:31:01Nico_PI think it's probably the codec loading that takes a bit of the time
18:31:10 Quit A_M ()
18:31:17Nico_Pwell actually maybe not :p
18:31:19jhMikeS|Rain|: It is always counting
18:31:25 Quit obo ("bye")
18:31:35jhMikeSUnless in 32kHz mode I think
18:31:37pondlifeMaybe it's waiting for the buffer fill to complete? Or the entire track to load?
18:31:47amiconnpondlife: Tried 10 times in succession now (H180, official bootloader, own build but with no relevant startup/ shutdown changes against svn)
18:31:52amiconnNo foreground scan at all
18:31:56chrisjs169jhMikeS, so with the fix in SVN, using an old bootloader (v0.2 for example) could still display the glitch?
18:31:58Nico_Ppondlife: it's two secs longer with a bigger track
18:32:14Nico_PI think it's letting too much data be buffered before starting to play
18:32:18pondlifeNico_P: Have you any WAVs bigger than the buffer to try with?
18:32:23amiconnMy own build just has a few test plugins enabled, plus the mod patch
18:32:37jhMikeSchrisjs169: yup.
18:32:44Nico_Ppondlife: good idea. I think I have one
18:32:49pondlifeI suspect this has only started happening to me since I put the SVN bootloader in....
18:32:57chrisjs169jhMikeS, Thanks!
18:33:01pondlife100% reproducible though, which is nice
18:33:33amiconnYeah, and here no foreground scans unless interrupting a background scan, with official bootloaders
18:33:51*amiconn would never put unofficial bootloaders on his coldfire irivers
18:33:51pondlifeAh, well I am interrupting a background scan.
18:33:57amiconnToo risky
18:34:04pondlifeBut why should that trigger a foreground scan?
18:34:13Nico_Ppondlife: I have a 43 MB WAV file. it loads and plays
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18:34:20amiconnBecause that's a known bug, as I said a few minutes ago
18:34:21Nico_PI'll listen to it all though
18:34:23pondlifeNico_P: How slow to start though.
18:34:33Nico_Ppondlife: I'll do better, don't worry ;)
18:34:33pondlifeamiconn: OK, that's the bug I'm talking about.
18:35:06pondlifeDo you know the FS# number?
18:35:15Nico_Ppondlife: most of my work up til now was making things work correctly
18:35:21Nico_Pand it's not finished
18:35:33amiconn[18:20:23] <amiconn> There's *one* situation when dircache *will* rebuild in the foreground - when shutting down while a background scan is still running
18:35:36amiconn[18:21:13] <amiconn> I reported that bug to Slasheri several times already
18:35:50pondlifeI was wondering if a super-big WAV would take a longer time to start playback
18:36:12pondlifeamiconn: OK, thanks, I'll pop it on FlySpray
18:37:15pondlifeAnyway, time to go
18:37:16Nico_Ppondlife: 7.6 secs to start the 43 MB WAV file
18:37:29Nico_Pfrom the moment I click it to the moment audio starts
18:38:55low_lightpixelma: for the reboot on usb...try removing line 284 in firmware/target/arm/system-pp502x.c (the CACHE_CTL one)
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18:39:07low_lightfixes it for me
18:39:09pondlifeNico_P: Maybe carry on testing seeking, skipping etc.
18:39:25 Part pondlife ("disconnected has pondlife")
18:39:57Nico_Ppondlife: indeed. the WAV file just stops playing when it reaches the end of the buffered section (weird). I also need to correct skipping backwards and stopping playback
18:40:07Nico_Pmeh, I hope he reads the logs
18:41:19jhMikeSamiconn: it seems the problem is actually twofold 1) Don't mess with CLCD_CLOCK_SRC 2) DO NOT enable a tick interrupt on the COP. Do 1 & 2 and everything is rock stable with any of my various patches.
18:41:36toffe82Nico_P: do you know the spin buffer, perhaps it can help :
18:41:54amiconnWell, you need CLCD_CLOCK_SRC set to 0xc0000000 for acceptable LCD performance
18:42:05jhMikeSit is
18:42:24amiconnAnd if you set that and not set it to 0x0 during PLL change, it will lock up, at least on ipod color
18:42:32jhMikeSbut the timer interrupt on the COP is part of the problem. The OF just use COP_CTL to provide the timer.
18:43:13amiconnOr perhaps the actual problem was different. linuxstb could test, he has a color
18:43:13jhMikeSit will lock on H10 too if a timer interrupt is on the COP. I have to make both changes for stability. I'm pretty sure you never testing anything with 2).
18:43:27pixelmalow_light: will do but I'll also try testing what I said - currently I seem to only confuse myself, too much at once...
18:43:57jhMikeS10000 and counting... :) Without 2) along with 1) it crashes horrible fast
18:44:05*markun sends greetings from Mountain View
18:44:23amiconnI wonder why timer interrupts on the COP would influence stability this way...
18:44:26Domonokywhoa.. grettings back to google.. :-)
18:44:28|Rain|so maybe I'm being phenomenally stupid here, but this SHOULD blink the backlight on an e200, yes? #define BLBL(num,len) { int x, y; GPIOG_OUTPUT_EN |= 0x80; GPIOG_ENABLE |= 0x80; for (x = 0; x < (num); x++) { GPIOG_OUTPUT_VAL &= ~0x80; ; GPIOG_OUTPUT_VAL |= 0x80; for (y = 0; y < (len) * 10000; y++); } }
18:44:39Nico_Ptoffe82: thanks
18:44:40markunDomonoky: I'm not at google yet
18:45:04toffe82markun: you are in california ?
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18:45:16markuntoffe82: yes, for the GSoC summit
18:45:49toffe82markun: do you stay long ?
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18:46:31jhMikeSamiconn: it did on sansa as well one I started testing dual core stuff there (when both cores read TIMER1_VAL). I don't know why it does, but it doesn't seem proper.
18:47:00jhMikeSOF does if (COP_CTL & PROC_SLEEP) COP_CTL &= ~PROC_SLEEP;
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18:49:36amiconnjhMikeS: I would probably even save the check in that case
18:50:40jhMikeSyou can't. you mess it up if it's using the event counter then. that will keep it's event counter correct.
18:51:33jhMikeSup to 24000 now. it just won't crash like this
18:51:41amiconnIf I just do COP_CTL &= ~PROC_SLEEP;
18:51:49amiconnI don't mess up the even counter
18:52:33amiconnHmm, or do you mean because it's not atomic?
18:52:57*amiconn hates that arm can't do atomic bit manipulation like SH and coldfire
18:52:59jhMikeSI'm not sure. OF does verify the bit is set first.
18:53:32amiconnYou're right that it *might* mess up the event counter. As long as we don't use that counter, it wouldn't be a problem though
18:53:37jhMikeSPerhaps some clock skipping is induced. It probably should be a tiny asm block.
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18:54:31amiconnThe messup would happen because the counter might change during the read-modify-write, which can't be done atomic on arm
18:55:14jhMikeSit uses no swp instruction for this stuff. the COP also checks the mailbox at this time and goes to sleep again if it has no messages.
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18:56:01jhMikeSmailbox writes are atomic and the registers work much like the CPU/COP_INT_EN/CLR ones.
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18:57:12Fordibolo`is it possible to choose a bigger font without harming the WPS? cause when i choose a bigger font i can't see the whole of the WPS...
18:57:29jhMikeSso it's like: CPU: COP_MSG = (1 << n), COP reads: CPU_MSG with (1 << n) set., COP writes CPU_REPLY = (1 << n)
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19:02:08jhMikeS42000 now with SVN. All trees seem equally stable now.
19:03:58 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
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19:05:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:09:12 Join omry [0] (
19:10:25omryhi guys, I want to buy a portable mp3 player for my walks, and it should be linux compatible. what do you guys recommend?
19:10:30jhMikeSamiconn, linuxstb: if you care to check
19:10:44|Rain|ugh. the bootloader is a pain in my ass
19:10:58Domonokyomry: a flashbased player with rockbox on it.. :-)
19:10:59jhMikeSpll abuser plugin:
19:11:04 Join ilgufo [0] (n=matteo@
19:11:18omryDomonoky, that's cool. care to get more specific? :)
19:11:29|Rain|I can't even get the wheel light to blink when I try to do it first thing in main(), and I don't feel like trying to blink it in the asm right now
19:12:28omryDomonoky, cool. thanks.
19:15:31amiconnjhMikeS: I would be more interested in a test on an ipod color
19:16:16amiconnjhMikeS: After thinking about it a bit, it makes some sense that enabling the same interrupt for both cores might cause stability problems
19:16:35pixelmalow_light: very weird results: the build I made on my box now (same revision as the borked one, 14986, with my changes) seems to work correctly including plugins and reboot to usb - the build I made _now_ with the same box as the borked one (linux on amd64) same revision with my changes works better but not correctly (i.e. plugins seem to work but - reboot to OF on usb plug does not work and... the radio entry is missing from the menu... (I read s
19:16:53amiconn(not whether it's CPU or COP, just the fact that it's enabled on both. The timer would probably run perfectly stable when being run on the COP *only*)
19:17:10omrylooks like the sanddisk sanse e200 is a nice choice.
19:17:16desowinomry: by linux compatible you mean you have linux box or it should run linux on device itself?
19:17:30omrydesowin, I mean I have a linux box
19:17:32jhMikeSperhaps but we need on CPU and there's no harm in following the example
19:17:44desowinomry: sure! I have sansa e280 myself, and I'm 100% satisfied with it
19:17:51omryI don't want a device that would require me to boot into windos to load it.
19:18:05desowinso any rockbox target would do this
19:18:19amiconnI meant that just in general, e.g. if some module wants to use timer2 on COP, it could do so, it would have to make sure it's not enabled on CPU then
19:18:31desowin(when rockboxed, cause Original Firmwares are lame)
19:19:02jhMikeSsure and it's probably a bad idea anyway. TIMER2 can just be switched over.
19:19:19omrydesowin, so sanda's are linux compatible in that sense?
19:19:21amiconnjhMikeS: I think that we should try to avoid using interrupts on the COP in general
19:19:27nugget240Hello, I have been trying to get rockbox on my sansa e260R but when I run the e200tool i get "Control message (-71, Protocol error)". I had it finish once but my sansa screen said "keys locked" and shut off.
19:19:57amiconnWe just need the core wakeup in order to not sleep the COP forever, but that can be done from the CPU as in your example
19:20:06jhMikeSamiconn: I agree. Even OF doesn't seem to use them for anything there. I haven't seen for audio playback but that's probably ok.
19:20:11desowinomry: my sansa runs like 15h-16h of playback (rockboxed), I don't care that it's like 5 hours less than OF, cause OF is very, very, very bad (and rockbox can still be optimized, os one day it might get longer runtime than OF)
19:20:23|Rain|jhMikeS: okay −− the current state of affairs is that if I use your first patch and leave all of my changes EXCEPT enabling the hidden partition dump, things work fine
19:20:38desowinomry: yea, just you set MSC usb mode on those, and you're done (I'm linux user)
19:20:45|Rain|jhMikeS: as soon as I try to enable the hidden partition dump, thinks seem to be hanging before main(). go figure.
19:21:01jhMikeSamiconn: It's actually better in that the COP won't race around until the CPU clears the timer.
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19:21:43|Rain|I was trying to find the OF DB rebuild offset for the latest version of the OF, but I guess I'll see if I can do it without enabling that code
19:21:50jhMikeS|Rain|: That is interesting. Can you make buf[512] and use the same buffer for both the dump and strings?
19:22:16jhMikeSamiconn: and having both cores clear the timer made it jittery
19:22:22omrydesowin, cool.
19:22:30jhMikeSand locked e200 as I said
19:22:39desowinomry: (oh, MSC on sansa I mean)
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19:23:31advcomp2019omry, i have the sansa e280r and it works great in windows and linux in msc mode
19:23:45omryis the e280 new?
19:23:50omryI can't seem to find it for sale.
19:24:17omryah, got one.
19:25:27jhMikeSamiconn: with only disabling the CLCD_CLOCK_SRC writes, the test would hardly reach 50 without locking.
19:26:41amiconnLooks like the PP5020 interrupt controller doesn't like concurrent accesses
19:26:50amiconnThe 5022 seems to have that fixed
19:26:59omrywhat usb cable does the e280 need? the store I found seems to sell data cables for it.,
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19:27:26amiconn(but it doesn't hurt to keep timer interrupt on one core there as well)
19:28:46advcomp2019omry, the usb cable comes with the new one unless you buy an used one that sometimes does not have the cable
19:28:53krazykitomry, it uses a proprietary cable
19:29:00omryit's a new one
19:29:10omrybut for some reason they sale the cable in the accessories.
19:29:22*amiconn wonders whether the e200 and c200 have identical cable connectors
19:29:30advcomp2019amiconn, yes
19:29:31desowinomry: because you might damage it
19:29:33jhMikeShave you tried the patch and test yourself or should this H10 be pretty representative of pp5020? Like I said, it does as you describe with time on COP.
19:29:55desowinomry: so you can buy replaceable cable
19:30:03amiconnI think that the various H10s are very similar, hence my desire for a test on ipod color
19:30:08*amiconn pings linuxstb
19:32:02jhMikeSI'll be the aribiter gets confused and perhaps interrupts in some certain group can't be enabled on both cores at the same time.
19:32:34pixelmalow_light: the best build of the three isn not right too - again the radio entry is missing... :\
19:33:29amiconnThe PP interrupt controller is interesting in that if a certain interrupt is enabled for a core, that interrupt wakes up the core even if the core itself has interrupts disabled in CSPR
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19:34:17amiconnOf course it has to be like this, as the PP interrupt controller is an add-on to the arm core, as well as the clock control via CPU_CTL/COP_CTL
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19:35:05omrydesowin, what do you think about this? looks cool..
19:36:02desowinit's matter of choice
19:36:03amiconnSo as long as we don't need *any* interrupts on the COP, we could still wake up the COP by enabling the timer1 interrupt in COP_INT_EN. We'd have to keep interrupts on teh COP disabled in its CPSR at all times
19:36:04|Rain|gcc is really irritating me.
19:36:16jhMikeSamiconn: Coldfire does exactly that as well
19:36:25desowinomry: imo sansa looks much bigger on photos, but it's only my opinion....
19:37:15jhMikeSmaybe. I can check that. My later stuff always does atomic checking of waking threads against interrupts...on all processors.
19:37:18|Rain|jhMikeS: so, I reapply all my patches and your first patch and it boots fine
19:37:41jhMikeS|Rain|: so it's a complete success in that combo?
19:38:09*jhMikeS doesn't like the "but" part
19:38:14amiconnThe wake-up from suspend on ipod has to work that way. Button interrupts (GPIO) have to be enabled in order to wake up the CPU, but CPSR must have interrupts disabled because the vectors aren't accessible in suspend
19:38:24|Rain|jhMikeS: I add GPIOG_OUTPUT_EN |= 0x80; GPIOG_ENABLE |= 0x80; GPIOG_OUTPUT_VAL &= ~0x80; at the top of main() to make sure it was actually getting SOMEWHERE, then reenable the hidden partition dumper (change #if 0 to #if 1), and it STILL works fine
19:38:27amiconn(sdram is sleeping and hence not readable)
19:38:39low_lightpixelma: the "official" build from the build servers ok? (I can't download now)
19:38:51|Rain|jhMikeS: this is contrary to my previous results, so I take out the GPIOG twiddling, and now it can't find rockbox.mi4 again (right back where I started)
19:39:13|Rain|something seriously screwy is going on.
19:39:25jhMikeSamiconn: we can put them in IRAM with bit 4 of CACHE_CTL. I did verify somewhat by using remaps to ones at 0 and it still operated.
19:39:33amiconnOn PP5002?
19:39:57*amiconn needs to figure out cache handling on PP5002 :|
19:39:57jhMikeSnot on 5002, no. Maybe it has the same ability...wouldn't suprise me.
19:40:11pixelmalow_light: the r14991 official one had the reboot issue, there was another commit now... let's see
19:40:33jhMikeS|Rain|: GPIOG, huh? I forget what runs on that.
19:40:37amiconnThat is, if we want to go dual core, which we probably want
19:40:55|Rain|jhMikeS: sorry, GPIOG pin 7 is the wheel light
19:41:01jhMikeSsure. It still looks like pp5020 doesn't like swp(b) in any case
19:41:03omrydesowin, ordered sansa e280 fm. thanks for the advice.
19:41:33|Rain|jhMikeS: I'm about to try with a shared buf[512] and see what happens
19:41:40jhMikeSso...this hw sync stuff will need some re. it appears there's a good number of sem regs.
19:41:55desowinomry: don't get mad at me when it won't be as shiny as you thought, lol
19:42:24amiconnjhMikeS: It's probably a bus controller bug then
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19:42:34omrydesowin, :)
19:42:47jhMikeSamiconn: I don't need COP_INT_EN = TIMER1 to do anything dual core. :\
19:42:57|Rain|jhMikeS: so the GPIOG stuff just turns off the wheel light and should have absolutely no effect on anything else, but it makes or break the boot
19:43:14jhMikeS|Rain|: I think the radio is on that.
19:43:25amiconnswp(b) itself works, but it's a read-modify-write operation that has to keep the bus locked between the read and the write, which is probably broken on PP <=5020
19:43:28low_lightsome other GPIOG bits are for the sd controller
19:43:37low_lightradio is GPIOH
19:43:43jhMikeSnever mind...yeah
19:43:57 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
19:44:56jhMikeS|Rain|: Odd that the OF would somehow depend on that one. Perhaps it's a functional pin otherwise?
19:45:58 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
19:46:02|Rain|this isn't about the OF, though
19:46:07jhMikeSamiconn: yeah, it works but starts doing nasty stuff when COP and CPU both start hitting the same location. It seems an even even worse situation during interrupts.
19:46:29pixelmalow_light: ok, first radio was "gone" with the latest official build, then I started the OF, used the radio for a few seconds, boot back to rockbox... voila
19:47:05|Rain|jhMikeS: the buf[256] at the start isn't actually used on e200 or c200
19:47:26jhMikeS|Rain|: I thought OF was part of the issue.
19:47:53|Rain|it was hanging the instant OF execution ended and the BL began −− the sandisk logo was still on the screen
19:47:53jhMikeS|Rain|: ok, nix that then. it's got one or the other.
19:48:15 Quit kubiix ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
19:48:27pixelmalow_light: radio is back (with the same build...)
19:48:41*jhMikeS doesn't look at BL code much unless a problem crops up
19:49:21|Rain|jhMikeS: if I turn off the wheel light, the BL can find rockbox.mi4 −− if I don't, it can't
19:49:43jhMikeSGPIOG_OUTPUT_VAL |= 0x80 instead doesn't work?
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19:50:02|Rain|it might, I haven't tried that yet −− the light is already on when the BL starts executing
19:50:13jhMikeS|Rain|: try CACHE_CTL &= ~0x10;
19:50:27|Rain|in lieu of the wheel light twiddling?
19:50:34jhMikeSOF clears this right away anyway.
19:50:45jhMikeSif you feel like it.
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19:51:35Lars_GI want you guy's feedback
19:53:56jhMikeSamiconn: does IPL use dual core fully? only thing is, the last time I tried learning anything there I came up empty.
19:54:22krazykitLars_G, well, we're not mind readers...
19:55:28|Rain|jhMikeS: CACHE_CTL &= ~0x10; instead of turning off the wheel light also "fixes" it
19:55:50Lars_GSorry I became distracted.
19:57:09jhMikeS|Rain|: wow. I didn't expect it to work. :P
19:57:26|Rain|jhMikeS: it shouldn't. neither should turning off the backlight. :P
19:57:41jhMikeS|Rain|: wherever you added that code...try "nop;" a few times
19:57:58|Rain|is that a macro?
19:58:07jhMikeS|Rain|: that is part of interrupt vector remapping and it actually may have an effect.
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19:58:25jhMikeS|Rain|: yeah #define nop asm volatile ("nop");
19:58:32jhMikeSit's already defined
19:58:40|Rain|giving that a shot
19:59:23jhMikeSfor every |= and &= ~, try three nops
19:59:49|Rain|well, there was only one with the CACHE_CTL change, and I did throw 3 nops in there instead
19:59:50jhMikeSor should that be four? eh, try four.
20:00:02|Rain|I can do four, haven't uploaded yet
20:00:29jhMikeSthat should compile to ldr r0, =CACHE_CTL, ldr r1, [r0], bic r1, r1, #0x10, str r1, [r0]. so four
20:00:36Lars_GI want to be %100 rockbox. for that the missing link is somewhat, music, and mainly podcasts handling on the pc side (I use both linux and OS X at work and home). I'm looking for a definite solution to it all, I think it'll be gtkpod since it's cross platf.
20:00:36Lars_GThe thing is, if I choose gtkpod, I intend to modify it, so it will work, read and write to BOTH the iPod db and rockbox's DB
20:00:37Lars_GAn I wanted the devs to tell me if they see any reason why I should not do this before launching on coding this up
20:00:39Lars_GI plan also to try and make it modular. who knows, someday someone could fork gtkrock from it for non-ipod rockboxed players.
20:00:42Lars_GBut, before setting myself to working directly with the rockbox database in the ipod I want to see if any devs who know the core code better than me know of any pitfalls or objections to it.
20:01:13jhMikeSthis could indicate something with alignment with other space...not sure
20:01:40|Rain|jhMikeS: 4 x nop goes back to failing to find firmware
20:02:19 Quit pepie34 ("Ex-Chat")
20:02:45|Rain|I'm going back to the CACHE_CTL version and diffing the disassembled binaries
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20:08:02|Rain| is the juicy bit... I think any other diffs were just address changes (and there's one of those in that snippet)
20:11:05|Rain|I can add a 5th nop if you like, but I don't think it's gonna matter
20:11:18|Rain|then again, I don't think it should matter now, so let me give it a shot
20:11:40 Quit omry (Remote closed the connection)
20:11:44jhMikeSok, they do mov+add instead of ldr. and I don't think it will either though the light thing sort of bugs me in any case.
20:13:31|Rain|pfwabpt. 5 nops worked.
20:14:42jhMikeSwow. now that means something is out of alignment now.
20:15:28|Rain|now the addresses match for the asm diffs, too
20:16:05pixelmabtw. low_light, the not booting into OF on usb plug reminds me of the fact that this issue exists with some Ipod builds (even official ones) - usually it'll hang there showing the Rockbox usb screen, maybe that's the same
20:16:21 Part Lars_G
20:16:39|Rain| is the 5-nop version
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20:16:49|Rain|just for confirmation
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20:19:44jhMikeSso 20 bytes of padding there changes things...hmmm
20:21:22 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
20:21:54|Rain|I can give you full disassemblies for the nop version and the "nothing, doesn't work" version if you like... there'll be a lot of diffs because of the addresses, though
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20:24:10jhMikeSwell, a straight disassem of the working version would be enough I think
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20:29:43amiconnjhMikeS: Afaik ipl uses the COP only as a kind of audio "dma" engine
20:29:47jhMikeS|Rain|: It seem like it must be _at least_ 20 bytes larger but more than that is ok. I wonder how much padding will cause it to fail again.
20:30:56jhMikeSamiconn: ah. so they use audio-related interrupts on COP but no real code like codecs?
20:31:58zichoOn Gigabeat, where do I put music so that rockbox finds it?
20:33:17jhMikeSzicho: put it where you can find it.
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20:35:04jhMikeSamiconn: have you noticed better batt life on H10? mine seemed like it drained really fast before but can listen all day now. maybe it's in my head.
20:35:46|Rain|jhMikeS: and for your viewing pleasure
20:35:50amiconnBattery runtime on H10 is really poor. I get <3 hours
20:36:13amiconnI didn't test lately though, but I don't expect significant changes
20:36:39jhMikeSamiconn: I ran mine 9hrs _after_ using mpegplayer lots of backlight time beforehand.
20:37:24amiconnI'm talking about the small H10 here, for which iriver claims a runtime of up to 8 hours
20:38:20jhMikeShmmm. perhaps the dev reset is the same on the small one? it's only enabled for 20GB right now. maybe that turns off unneeded things.
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20:39:23|Rain|jhMikeS: and is a diff with all the addresses clobbered so that offset differences don't show up
20:40:01|Rain|for the most part, it looks like everything's the same, just slightly reordered
20:40:10|Rain|possibly using a different register
20:41:10amiconnDisabling unused functional units in the PP is *the* key for better runtime (and disk poweroff)
20:42:04amiconnThat's why runtime on PP5002 is quite nice now. I discovered the necessary device enable bits (almost "by accident"), and disk poweroff is gpio controlled on the 1st...3rd gen
20:42:37amiconnBut the PP502x ipods don't have gpio disk power control
20:43:04|Rain|at any rate, I have a working bootloader with the hidden partition dumper enabled, so I'm happy for now
20:43:19amiconnI wonder how it's done there - because the *have* to have that - otherwise the OF battery runtimes would be plain impossible given the battery capacities
20:43:19|Rain|I'll stop being a pest :P
20:43:23jhMikeSyou could try that reset on H10 5GB and see. A 3hr vs. 8hr would be pretty easy to just see.
20:44:07jhMikeS|Rain|: I will look into that. I think it's odd but I really have no idea atm.
20:44:38amiconnjhMikeS: Where do I find that?
20:45:03jhMikeSIt's in system_init...basically the first thing done by us and the OF.
20:45:44|Rain|well, thanks for that −− at least I have someone's attention :) I don't have any ideas right now either, but I'll be happy to test any ideas anyone might have
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20:53:09amiconnjhMikeS: I'll try that - in fact it's very simple to notice whether power consumption drops or not
20:53:32amiconnWith svn, the H10 becomes rather warm
20:54:20jhMikeSMines ice cold :)
20:54:43jhMikeSbeen running for hours already
20:54:45amiconnYeah, I know that effect from my 2nd gen ipod - and it was how I discovered the necessary bits
20:54:50amiconn(on PP5002)
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20:55:46jhMikeSI wish I knew what 0x60006008 does. It must be some latching thing.
20:56:09*amiconn is playing elephantsdream on the patched build
20:56:29jhMikeSthe patch i posted?
20:56:58amiconnNope, the dev reset
20:57:28jhMikeSI take it that drains it quickly usually.
20:57:39amiconnJust a || defined(IRIVER_H10_5GB) addition in system-pp502x.c ...
20:57:53amiconn(although that name is misleading - mine is 6GB ;)
20:58:19jhMikeSit's an easy function to find...maybe the 2nd or 3rd call from the startup vector assuming both firmwares are similar
20:58:37jhMikeSnear the start nonetheless
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20:59:07amiconnI think the ipods will have something similar.... a few bits differ probably
20:59:42amiconnI think the small & big H10 are identical apart from the different LCD controller + LCD panel, so I just enabled it without checking
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21:06:59amiconnjhMikeS: No heat at all at the back of my H10 after playing the whole video :D
21:08:15*Zagor unboxes a new c240 to test for radio
21:08:21amiconnHmm, but trying to start some music hangs everytime
21:08:54amiconnThat's probably the general instability - worked the 5th time or so
21:09:11amiconn...and hung
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21:11:34jhMikeSwell, try the patch out :)
21:11:36barrywardelljhMikeS: your e200 bootloader patch works fine for me. it boots rb and of both with and with microSDHC inserted
21:11:37*amiconn applies other patch
21:12:20jhMikeSbarrywardell: |Rain| had some problem with the partition dump that inserting 5 nops seems to fix. Neither of us know why.
21:13:01amiconnNow, let's see.... music started on 1st try, whatever that means
21:13:08jhMikeSthing is, I haven't tried the dump on my own player yet.
21:13:48*amiconn started an album and will report back later
21:14:05jhMikeSyou could try the plugin and you'll know in about 5 seconds
21:14:51*barrywardell checks the logs
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21:20:41Bam2550Rockbox ftw
21:22:23jhMikeSamiconn: I think that 0x60006008 works like: set DEV_RS, set the latch, all devices in the bitwise AND of both remain off when DEV_RS is set back to 0.
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21:24:37Zagorradio works on this c240 too, but changing frequency is strangely slow
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21:26:55Zagoreach press (0.05 Mhz) takes 0.5-1 second to react
21:29:17low_lightZagor: there is some flakiness with the radio
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21:30:08Zagoryeah but it worked great on my c250
21:30:10low_lightsometimes I have to stop the radio and start it again to get it working
21:30:23barrywardelljhMikeS: that nop thing is weird
21:30:51ZagorI'll try running the same version
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21:31:16low_lightand there's been one report of the radio commit causing a freeze on startup
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21:32:25jhMikeSbarrywardell: no doubt :)
21:32:47Zagoryeah, the same version works flawlessly (and muuuch quicker) on my c250
21:32:50barrywardellI think your patch is still an improvement though
21:32:57 Quit Bam2550 ()
21:33:30jhMikeSbarrywardell: there doesn't seem to be a problem without the partdump, so do you think it should be committed and that worked out later?
21:34:16barrywardellyes, I think so. Especially since it has no negative effect on my sansa
21:34:38jhMikeSyou tried the dump too or not?
21:34:52barrywardellno, but I'll try it now...
21:35:21jhMikeSwhich patch btw? |Rain| reported success with the first patch but not the 2nd (sans ata thread).
21:35:53jhMikeSsd thread, whatever :p
21:36:00barrywardellthe most recent one in flyspray
21:36:39barrywardellOF dump works too
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21:37:37amiconnlinuxstb: ping...
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21:54:41low_lightZagor: does reboot on usb plugin work for you with a current build?
21:54:55maxkelleyhey low_light
21:55:14pixelmait didn't work for me with r14991 (not the latest)
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21:55:51Zagorworks fine on the c240 with r14992 (current)
21:57:51pixelmaand I do believe that it's an issue with this specific build (not the revision), something similar exists on Ipods
21:58:24Zagorwe should try to avoid activating usb in the bootloader. it causes errors with the host.
21:59:03rasherWhat's the policy on plugins ported from something else. Do we add the original author(s) to CREDITS?
21:59:18Zagorhmm, it goes into usb mode but my linux box doesn't want to talk to it...
21:59:25Zagortesting the c250
21:59:26maxkelleydoes anyone notice that if the c200 is rebooted (or booted) with usb connected, the OF will charge but not show the connected screen, similar to holding down select in the rockbox fw.
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21:59:33maxkelleyyeah :)
22:00:14maxkelleyis there a way to have the bootloader lie to the OF until it boots fully, then allow the bootloader to think USB is connected?
22:00:42ZagorI don't think that is the problem. my c250 with an older bootloader works fine
22:00:59Zagorbut we still should try to avoid powering up usb in the bootloader
22:01:02rasherSeems we do. Okay, here we go.
22:01:04amiconnjhMikeS: Good news (I think). No crashes during the whole album, even with plugins running in parallel
22:01:21amiconn(tried mandelbrot, oscilloscope, cube, plasma, and jewels)
22:01:26 Quit Fordibolo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:01:30syn4psewhat's the process of submitting a plugin?
22:01:46n1ssyn4pse: put it in the tracker
22:01:53maxkelleyZagor: you mean that the OF initializes the MSD if USB is plugged in from boot?
22:02:18n1spreferably with a descriptive text and license
22:02:45 Nick HellDragon is now known as Bitter (n=Nocebo@unaffiliated/helldragon)
22:02:53syn4psewhat if i'm using someone elses public domain code (it has been cited)
22:02:59amiconnlinuxstb: ping...
22:03:53Zagormaxkelley: no I mean our bootloader powers up the USB controller, which makes the host start talking to it and try and give it an address. when we don't respond there's an error condition in the host stack.
22:04:01 Quit ilgufo ("So Long, and Thanks For All the Fish -")
22:04:05amiconnjhMikeS: No noticeable heat either, and battery runtime seems to have improved a bit with the dev reset (afaict - need to do a proper runtime tests asap)
22:04:15Zagorusb has strict and very short time limits for responding to requests
22:04:54maxkelleyZagor: you were the person that figured out the button light timeout, right?
22:04:55Zagorluckily the host stack is pretty robust and retries after a few seconds, but we should still avoid this if we can
22:05:00amiconnThe linux usb stack seems to be very sensitive to even slightly misbehaving devices
22:05:18syn4psehow many of the rockbox targets support 320x240?
22:05:23Zagormaxkelley: well, I just tried the same pin as on the e200 so I didn't really figure it out
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22:06:19n1ssyn4pse: that would be the gigabeats
22:06:20maxkelleydoes the e200 have a menu button light, too? (I'm not real familiar with the e200)
22:06:39Zagormaxkelley: no it doesn't. that's why I didn't add that to the c200 :-)
22:06:48maxkelleyah, ok :)
22:06:58pixelmasyn4pse: the Ipod Video is the only one (and the Gigabeat has a width of 240 and height of 320
22:07:27przemhbHi all
22:08:00syn4psedarn, that's too bad, b/c I can't scale the user's map any smaller. i'm using 9x9 bmp tiles and it's _tiny_ as it is.
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22:08:11jhMikeSamiconn: sounds good to me :). so an iPod color test would clinch it?
22:08:21amiconnjhMikeS: yup
22:09:48amiconnThe only other pp5020 ipod (4th gen grayscale) uses the other lcd bridge (the "monochrome bridge" as I call it - but it's also used in the c200)
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22:10:17hcshm? I just say "ipod color", what's needed?
22:10:50amiconnAh, another ipod color owner :)
22:11:22syn4psehow about at least 204w x 184h
22:11:37amiconnjhMikeS made a patch that improves stability a lot on the H10. That patch needs testing whether it causes bad behaviour on ipod color
22:12:21rashersyn4pse: still only the video
22:12:23n1ssyn4pse: the closest below 320x240 is 220x178 which are ipod colors iriver h300 and sansa e200 (rotated)
22:12:48pixelmagrrrr.... anothe plugin button actions plugin :\
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22:12:53hcsamiconn: ah, rather unfortunately I appear to have not brought my ipod cable
22:13:01amiconnn1s: ...and ipod color
22:13:13rasherpixelma: why's that bad? I already special-case where they don't make sense
22:13:14pixelmaand rasher: is it not ported to the c200?
22:13:21|Rain|he said that :D
22:13:28rasherpixelma: Yes?
22:13:30n1samiconn: yup a case of my crappy typing :-)
22:13:47amiconnoops :)
22:13:49rasherpixelma: unless I messed something up..
22:13:50pixelmawhy didn't you mention that in the button table
22:13:58pixelma(for the tex file) ;)
22:14:01low_lightZagor: the usb is init'ed in the bootloader for *proper* usb detection...I'm not sure why the GPIO bits aren't enough
22:14:27amiconnlow_light: gpio can't distinguish USB charger from USB data port
22:14:29rasherpixelma: Ah, copy&paste error. Don't know which buttons are used for c200 either
22:14:41maxkelleypixelma: would you like me to try and make all the plugins use the universal plugin actions file?
22:14:53amiconnhcs: Hmm, too bad :/
22:14:53pixelmarasher: I find that bad because it can cause unnecessary trouble,
22:14:54Zagorfalse alarm about the c240 btw, I had simply forgot to set OF in UMS mode...
22:14:56rasherZagor: looks like the build server hung
22:15:01*amiconn hopes linuxstb will pop in later
22:15:07rasherpixelma: in which way?
22:15:08pixelmamaxkelley: noo... please don't!
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22:15:24maxkelleywould it make it easier for new ports?
22:15:26jhMikeSAS3514 can distinguish charger from USB but isn't readable from interrupt context atm
22:15:30maxkelleyer, wouldn't.
22:15:39Zagorlow_light: what does "proper" mean in this context? is there no way we can detect plugin without initializing the usb controller?
22:15:58amiconnmaxkelley: I think plugin actions should be reduced to a sane minimum. The current solutions are a major mess
22:16:06pixelmarasher: it gave me a hard time to figure out what is wrong in the clocks plugin for the c200 - it's still there, try to find out
22:16:09Zagorrasher: checking
22:16:22amiconnZagor: see my remark from 2 minutes ago
22:16:29pixelmaI prepared a mail, will really send that of to the dev list :\
22:16:34rasherWell for this plugin which simply has directions and quit, the actions code work fine except for ipods
22:16:36maxkelleyamiconn: right.. there's keymaps for each target in each plugin, right?
22:16:56low_lightZagor: the gpio port tells you when something is plugged in to the usb, but as amiconn said it could just be a usb charger
22:17:07rasher(since ipods use the wheel for directions, for some reason)
22:17:17pixelmamaxkelley: look at the mess that's already there in bubbles.c - it's the first plugin which was "ported"...
22:17:25amiconnmaxkelley: I mean the plugins whch are already using plugin actions are a mess - those that are using individual keymaps are a lot of work for a new port but otherwise quite straightforward
22:17:36Zagorright. so it's more important to be able to boot with a charger than to properly handle usb? :)
22:17:38|Rain|low_light: does the c200 OFDatabaseOffset you added actually work?
22:18:18low_lightno ;) it's a todo
22:18:19rasherpixelma: looks better than the old way to me :|
22:18:36amiconnrasher: Really?
22:18:41|Rain|low_light: k. I was just wondering whether they were possibly the same or you just copied the one from the e200
22:19:00amiconnThe first context defined for the first plugin ported to plugin actions already contains an exception hack (!)
22:19:01rasheramiconn: to me it just looks like fixups for the ports which need it, and actions code for the rest
22:19:10maxkelleypixelma: in bubbles.c? there's only two sections for specfifc targets, as opposed to all the targets.
22:19:14pixelmarasher: for very very few plugins, as I said I need to send the mail - it has some good arguments
22:19:45amiconnWith the old method, keymaps are defined in the plugin - with plugin actions you have to check 3 different places to make it work properly
22:19:49rasherWhat maxkelley said. Is 2 exception sections better than sections for ALL targets?
22:19:53Zagoramiconn: buildmaster says it's waiting for your build server. do you have any processes running still?
22:20:50amiconnZagor: No processes running under rbclient...
22:21:09pixelmamaxkelley: yeah? and why? The Sansa exception was implemented because one probably was afraid to change something for other plugins as well - that's one point: there are connections you don't see easily
22:21:19Zagoramiconn: not even ssh ?
22:21:34Zagorweird problem...
22:22:04n1sZagor couldn't it time out after like 15 minutes and restart?
22:22:25pixelmamaxkelley, rasher: try to find out why changing the clocks "skin" in the clock plugin works on long presses and then constantly changes - and not on short presses...
22:22:27rasherpixelma: to me it still seems better than having to set up keymaps for ALL targets individually
22:22:41Zagorhmm, now it got released
22:22:49amiconnrasher: RED!
22:22:54rasherI'm not sure I'd have bothered with this plugin
22:22:57rasheramiconn: calm down
22:23:00pixelmamaxkelley, rasher I meant for c200 (take sim, is ther too)
22:23:19 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
22:23:19maxkelleyrasher: aye :) it's still 100-200 lines per plugin gone == lower code size.
22:23:22Zagorn1s: I guess. but I would prefer to understand why this is happening.
22:23:30*linuxstb_ reports for duty with an ipod color
22:23:34*maxkelley looks.
22:23:40amiconnlinuxstb: :)
22:24:02rasherstrange, I checked this.. perhaps I'm using a different gcc version from the build servers
22:24:17pixelmarasher: what's the use then if you have to introduce exceptions here and there - and everything is hidden in another file (and different contexts and actions)
22:24:32maxkelleyless code.
22:24:33linuxstb_amiconn: I haven't read all the logs yet, what's going on?
22:24:48amiconn[22:11:36] <amiconn> jhMikeS made a patch that improves stability a lot on the H10. That patch needs testing whether it causes bad behaviour on ipod color
22:24:48amiconn[22:12:07] <amiconn>
22:25:10rasherpixelma: a few exceptions is better than having to define every goddamn target explicitly. It's a right mess
22:25:24pixelmamaxkelley: but everything is obfuscated and you can't grasp it easily - and it won't be less code
22:25:32pixelmait'll become messy too
22:25:35linuxstb_amiconn: OK, I'll try it.
22:25:48maxkelleypixelma: there could be different classes of keymaps, perhaps defined in the plugiblib_actions.h etc. for example: those with scrollwheel could go under scrollwheel, etc.
22:25:49amiconnSimply apply that patch & rebuild core, then play around with different things (music playback, plugins, mpegplayer etc). It shouldn't crash or hang
22:25:53rasherIt *will* be more code. I'd have to add 100+ lines of button definitions without the actions
22:26:16amiconnlinuxstb: jhMikeS also made a plugin that stress-tests PLL switching. I didn't try it though
22:26:34pixelmarasher: yeah but then you have it all in one and can understand it
22:26:41amiconnrasher: Yes, but it's be straightforward, unlike with actions (with a very few exceptions)
22:26:49maxkelleyFor the c200 plugins, I had to go through and add to each plugin the same thing, basically. so much repetition is unneccesary, and took me near a day.
22:26:53maxkelleyfull day.
22:27:13Zagorso do we know which gpio bits tell usb connect on sansas?
22:27:15rasheramiconn: "straightforward" = lots and lots of typing and copy&pasting. That means something is wrong
22:27:27amiconnFor instance, metronome uses plugin actions - and it's *unusable* on the player.
22:27:29rasherAnd the solution is to generalise the problem, which is exactly what actions does
22:27:40amiconnI have no idea how to fix that in a clean way with actions...
22:27:58rasherThen fix the actions code/idea rather than going back to the old horror
22:28:01maxkelleyif we don't use it, why is pluginlib actions existing?
22:28:20pixelmarasher: to me it only makes sence for very few plugins - maybe yours is one (4 directions and action) but you said you added exception for the Ipods what about Sansas with scrollwheel too
22:28:32amiconnThe actions idea has one fundamental flaw - one generalised set of actions that makes perfect sense for one plugin is often unsuitable for another one
22:29:00amiconn-> you start adding new contexts, or exceptions, and even increase the mess you're trying to reduce
22:29:12maxkelleypixelma: sansas would be in the group with ipods, pretty much.
22:29:23rasheramiconn: But you're increasing from a level of mess that's far below the previous level
22:29:32maxkelleyit's organized mess :)
22:29:36*amiconn totally disagrees
22:29:52pixelmarasher: it'll also lead to weird mappings like in jackpot for Ondio (as example) - up whas made "action" because it is in bubble where it makes sense, here I would use "mode"
22:30:11pixelmamaxkelley: but they aren't...
22:30:20amiconnWith plain keymaps, you can check what's wrong and fix it in the plugin. With plugin actions, you have to check the plugin, pluginlib actions, and core actions, and then change the appropriate one
22:30:22maxkelleypixelma: what's wrong with the clock plugin?
22:30:37amiconnMaking a mistake here might break several plugins on several other targets
22:30:44rasheramiconn: a minor hassle compared to the tedious task of adding 800 targets to your plugin
22:30:45pixelmamaxkelley: hold "up" (or play) and see what I mean
22:30:53amiconneh? how so?
22:30:57rasherI think the problem is generally that the "standard keymap" wasn't thought through
22:31:07amiconnI certainly don't have access to all the targets for testing
22:31:15Zagorin practice each plugin needs to be manually adjuster for every target anyway
22:31:26pixelmawhy can't you change the skin with a short press? (took me hours to find out)
22:31:29maxkelleypixelma: heh, pretty.
22:31:42pixelmaZagor: exactly what I mean
22:31:43rasherZagor: some need correction for some targets. That's less than "all need definitions for all targets"
22:31:50amiconnThe problem is that the plugin actions idea sound very logical first, but it hides away things - too much to be understandable for someone who adapts plugins to a target
22:31:57 Quit Fordibolo` ("אם יש גהינום וזה לא כאן ועכשיו, יש מצב שחלקכם יגיע אליו!")
22:32:12Zagorrasher: can you name a few that didn't need correction for the c200, for instance?
22:32:30amiconnSometimes even the core actions seem to be problematic - see the various fixes for c200 contexts during the last days...
22:32:33maxkelleyZagor: zxbox, I believe.
22:33:19maxkelleyyeah, sorry.
22:33:20pixelmaI actually have never tried zxbox yet
22:33:32maxkelleyI haven't either, I meant xobox.
22:33:43pixelma(on c200 that is)
22:33:44rasherThis still doesn't fix the problem actions partly solve: having to type up millions of definitions for all plugins
22:33:45maxkelleywhich is fun :)
22:33:53 Part bluey- ("Leaving")
22:34:35Zagorrasher: and I question if actions solve that problem. history says we have do adjust the actions for most plugins anyway when we add new targets
22:34:36maxkelleyin snake2, is the snake supposed to wrap around the screen and come back in like 10 pixels from the bottom?
22:34:44pixelmarasher: I think it's better to type (or copy and paste a bit) more in the plugin because you actually see what you will end up with
22:34:55rasherAnd I violently disagree with that
22:35:09rasheras a plugin author, I shouldn't have to know how every single target works
22:35:11*amiconn also prefers c&P'ing lots of keymaps and adjusting over the plugin actions mess
22:35:25rasherwell you're clearly just a grumpy old man
22:35:31pixelmarasher: try to find out what'ss wrong in clocks for c200 and you'll understand better
22:35:34Zagorrasher: perhaps not, but then you cannot expect to make a plugin that will run well on every target either. it's simply not possible.
22:35:48amiconnI'm saying that even though I already did ports to new keymaps several times
22:36:08rasherpixelma: you keep bringing up *one single problem*. That's hardly an argument for ditching something that's at least an attempt to solve the problem
22:36:10ZagorI mean ergonmically possible. different targets have buttons all over the place. that can't be abstracted away.
22:36:10amiconn...and I know it's a lot of work
22:36:19*maxkelley grins.
22:36:22amiconnBut at least I can be sure not to break other targets this way
22:36:22pixelmarasher: yes it's a perfect example
22:36:30rasherjesus christ
22:36:31 Part rasher
22:36:31maxkelleywhat is this robotfindskitten game? :)
22:37:20pixelmaand I did say that his plugin might be one of the examples that could work with actions
22:38:05 Quit Bitter ("Installing DEBIAN")
22:38:06Zagorsure, it works for some plugins. but then those plugins tend to be rather easy to adapt no matter the method used.
22:39:18amiconnI'm not saying that it should be ditched completely. There are some generic things where it might be useful. Mainly a 4-directions + action context, and an extension oif that, 4 directions + zoom. But that's about it
22:39:22maxkelleyI mean, truly, putting one keymap definition section in a file and having a good deal of plugins work (30%) is less work.
22:39:24pixelmathat's what I think too - maybe make an examples page in the wiki or something. But I will take that to the dev-mailing list
22:39:28amiconnAll other plugins are better off with individual maps
22:41:38 Quit hcs ("Leaving.")
22:42:08 Part chrisjs169 ("Leaving")
22:42:59*amiconn thinks rasher's last commit is buggy
22:43:06linuxstb_I'm not even sure that works - e.g. on ipods, you need to decide when to use the wheel for movement, and when to use MENU & PLAY/PAUSE. Some 4-directions plugins may work better with the wheel.
22:43:25pixelmaand by the way my example was just to explain how hard to understand things can become with the action system
22:43:42maxkelleylinuxstb_: that's up to the plugin to decide.
22:43:57maxkelleythere would be a section for scrollwheel, and another for non.
22:44:19amiconnmaxkelley: see - 2 contexts where 1 keymap would be sufficient.
22:45:21maxkelleythat makes little sense.
22:45:24pixelmalinuxstb: some even use both (directions and the wheel) for example minesweeper
22:45:26amiconnYOur example how to implement the 2 methods for ipods
22:45:35amiconnAnd the one who adapts the plugins would have to decide which one to use - for every single plugin
22:45:41maxkelleyisn't two sections better than one for each port?
22:45:49amiconn...which in turn requires checking multiple source files
22:46:07amiconn...while with plain keymaps you can simply c&p, and improve later
22:46:37pixelmaand don't have to care about other plugins
22:46:42maxkelleythe more targets we have, the longer and longer the plugin files are going to get, and even the simplest hello world plugin would have 200+ lines devoted to keymaps!
22:47:40amiconnSome simple plugins combine keymaps, or even have no keymaps at all
22:48:03pixelmamaybe, but if you don't understand why button x doesn't do what it's supposed to do on target y you can simply look that up in the plugins file
22:48:15 Quit massiveH ("Leaving")
22:49:12amiconnAnd even if a plugin has 200+ lines of keymap definitions - the developer porting to his target doesn't need to care about most of them any more than just keeping them intact
22:50:07linuxstb_amiconn, jhMikeS: The patch seems fine on my Color. I haven't tried video yet though.
22:50:37maxkelleyit's going to end up having to be converted in the future, with the number of targets rockbox is amassing, and I think it would be easier to start now than when we have ~30 targets.
22:50:50pixelmamaxkelley: can you tell me now what's happening in clock?
22:51:27maxkelleypixelma: well, I see the problem, but I haven't yet looked at the code.
22:52:15pixelmadid you even now there where the "skins" before?
22:52:31amiconnWe already have 18 different keymaps - and the vast difference between number of buttons, button layout and other special input devices like wheels, touchscreen etc seem to make plugin actions even less likely to succeed
22:52:37 Join mf0102 [0] (n=michi@
22:52:37 Quit funky_ ("leaving")
22:52:42 Quit przemhb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:53:25*amiconn recharges H10 for a proper runtime test
22:54:37 Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection)
22:55:06maxkelleypixelma: no, I didn't.
22:55:07 Join rasher [0] (n=rasher@rockbox/developer/rasher)
22:55:22 Quit syn4pse ()
22:55:36maxkelleypixelma: I can see how that would be a problem. it would mean changing it for all ports.
22:56:31pixelmamaybe that could happen, I really don't like the "dependency"
22:57:03XavierGr_so the whole point of robotfindskitteh is to just guess and touch all other symbols until you find the kitten? :P
22:57:08|Rain|O_o sansapatcher seems not to have actually added my firmware the first time
22:57:23XavierGr_might as well commit the BOFH server excuse then :D
22:57:31maxkelleypixelma: wait, why isn't the pla_up button working? there's nothing else assigned to it.
22:57:32 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
22:57:35maxkelleyXavierGr_: do it!
22:57:47pixelmamaxkelley: see...
22:57:56XavierGr_I don't have commit access, I meant someone commit it :)
22:59:11maxkelleypixelma: I'm confused. I know why the down button doesn't work, because it's mapped to the menu.
22:59:36rasheramiconn: would you mind telling *why* you think my commit is buggy, or are you just pulling stuff out of your nose?
22:59:37pixelmamaxkelley: I somehow have a grasp of it - one hint was that the down button doesn't work as expected too
22:59:55amiconnrasher: Two #if without a single #endif...
23:00:01pixelmarasher: now you're the grumpy old man... ;)
23:00:16 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
23:00:52maxkelleypixelma: when he said that, I thought he was talking to amiconn, because I would have corrected "grumpy old woman" :)
23:01:28 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
23:02:08jhMikeSlinuxstb: good to hear. thanks for checking.
23:02:28rasheramiconn: where?
23:03:01jhMikeSlinuxstb_: and you're sure you used the patched build this time? ;)
23:03:16rasheramiconn: that's one #if removed, and one added. Should work out nicely.
23:03:18*amiconn can't read diffs anymore
23:03:21linuxstb_jhMikeS: Yes ;)
23:03:24amiconnrasher: sorry...
23:03:48*jhMikeS will not live that one down for awhile :P
23:04:14rasherworst part is this'll happen again if more code is added, I suppose
23:04:15maxkelleyrasher: keep that in your "stuff against people" file :)
23:04:45maxkelleyheh, I love the robotfindskitten version number.
23:05:14XavierGr_rasher: is the text hardcoded on the plugin?
23:05:21rasherXavierGr_: yeah
23:05:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:05:39XavierGr_rasher: maybe it would be better with an external txt that people can change with various hilarious messages?
23:05:54rasherYou're not supposed to change the messages without the proper procedure!
23:05:56amiconnmaxkelley: See what I (and pixelma) mean?
23:06:09rasherBut yeah, an external file would allow to use all messages on all targets
23:06:18maxkelleyamiconn: yeah. too bad there wasn't an easier way to do it.
23:06:26amiconnPLA_UP never fires on c200 because generic_actions is checked first - and that maps BUTTON_UP to PLA_START
23:06:46XavierGr_rasher: sorry, I thought that the messages were just various stuff written for fun
23:06:59maxkelleyamiconn: that's silly.
23:07:54rasherXavierGr_: well yes, they are.. but the illusion is that it's all very meaningful. Sortof
23:08:41amiconnmaxkelley: It is - but it's inherited from bubbles which btw was the first plugin ported to pluginlib actions, and already defines an exception (for Ondio), and now even has further exceptions for e200
23:08:48XavierGr_rasher: heh, this plugin reminds me of lolcats :D
23:10:01pixelmamaxkelley: I really only meant the fact that you can't understand it easily anymore (the way the plugin uses them is silly, but you can already see that in other plugins as well)
23:10:22maxkelley"somewhat meaningful." sort of like the little glass tub of carmex?
23:11:03maxkelleyI found kitten!
23:11:23amiconnWith literal keymaps you'd have to check the ~10 lines in the plugin and would know what's going on - with pluginlib actions I had to check 3 files to find out where PLA_UP is suppressed for c200 (and follow the pluginlib_actions logic)
23:11:55rashermaxkelley: way to go, robot!
23:12:06maxkelleyor lack of logic? :)
23:12:58maxkelleywhat is rocklife supposed to be anyhow?
23:13:06n1srasher: you can save 330 bytes in that plugin by making functions 'static'
23:13:28rashern1s: which functions?
23:13:34amiconnBut that reminds me - did the change to standard menus complete?
23:13:53n1srasher: almost all of them, I will test and commit, ok?
23:14:12amiconn(another, nice way to clean up keymap issues *and* get consistent behaviour across plugins)
23:14:25rashern1s: please do - you could move the #if in _messages a bit down as well, but it seems to be a bit hit-and-miss
23:14:38pixelmamaxkelley: I think it doesn't work correctly on the c200 as well (I think you can't set some necessary things...). I *believe* if you could you would understand better
23:14:45maxkelleyamiconn: having a menu with quit option?
23:15:16maxkelleyyeah, I can't get to any menus.
23:15:24amiconnNo, using the standard core menu functions for the menus
23:15:25*jhMikeS has a GOL screensaver he made a long time ago
23:15:28pixelmamaxkelley: that plugin also combines two contexts...
23:15:37XavierGr_jhMikeS: GOL?
23:15:40amiconn(instead of having custom menu code with inconsistent behaviour)
23:15:52 Quit seablue ("life, death, life, death")
23:16:02jhMikeSXavierGr_: Game of Life ... like the rocklife plugin
23:16:14low_lightjhMikeS: any idea what 0x70000028 and 0x70000060 do?
23:16:15jhMikeSbut more colorful
23:16:23iambendang, e250 39.99 @
23:16:35iambenrefurb, but still nice
23:16:52maxkelleyooh, disassembly!
23:17:18jhMikeShmmm...0x70000028. That's referenced alot...hold on
23:17:37maxkelleypixelma: would you like me to fix the rocklife plugin?
23:18:19jhMikeSlow_light: 0x70000028 looks like a reset pin or something
23:18:43pixelmamaxkelley: I don't want you to... do as you like :)
23:19:01 Quit Isolinear (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:19:05maxkelleywhat I sort of mean is, would you commit it so I wouldn't need to put in a patch?
23:19:21Zagoriamben: isn't it weird they sell refurb units? I thought their whole concept was based on selling truckloads. where do they find a significant quantity of refurb sansas???
23:19:22jhMikeSlow_light: you have an error in the comments on line 28
23:20:23maxkelleypixelma: how is rocklife supposed to work>
23:20:29maxkelleyer, wait, manual :P
23:20:30pixelmamaxkelley: well definitely not today
23:20:56iambenZagor: i can only guess that they made a deal w/ sandisk directly, they've gotta go somewhere i guess
23:21:03jhMikeSlowlight: is this some sort of bitbanging driver code?
23:21:17pixelmamaxkelley: you could also try with a sim of another target, I'm not too sure either just remember it looking differently on my M5
23:21:30low_lightmindless copy/paste
23:21:30iambenif i didnt already have the e280 i'd get one just to screw around with
23:22:04maxkelleyoh, I've got it.
23:23:17maxkelleyif you hold the left button at the screen that says random, you get to change something.
23:23:50low_lightjhMikeS: I guess. Most of the hits on 0x70000028 like that
23:25:06jhMikeSlow_light: that's a USB register
23:25:32jhMikeStoni1: called it USB_CTRL
23:25:37 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
23:25:53 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:26:30jhMikeSe200 doesn't seem to reference 0x70000060 however in the dump
23:27:38n1sha, a whooping 800 bytes left over :-)
23:28:17 Quit scorche|work ("CGI:IRC")
23:28:51low_lightyeah, I did see 0x70000028 in part of the usb init
23:29:12low_lightjhMikeS: how's this for unknown registers...
23:30:05 Join Caliban [0] (n=ianmacd@
23:30:07jhMikeS0x60006044 (I called it "CACHE_PRIORITY" even though I have no idea)
23:31:30jhMikeS60006080 is a clock divider for i2s
23:32:08rashern1s: neat. Shows how much I know about what I'm doing..
23:32:25zichoIf i browse my plugins, is there anyway to jump to the "Now playing" screen to change song, then jump back to browsing plugins?
23:32:45 Quit nicktastiq (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:34:47jhMikeS60006044 actually appears to be some kind of masking register for something...looks like alot of memory and cache controller related mask treatment
23:35:53 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
23:35:58amiconn0x6000602c has to do with the "mono" lcd bridge timing
23:36:45jhMikeSlow_light: I'd suggest searching rb files for register references. Some look really familiar.
23:37:44low_lightI did, although I haven't updated the ones you recently named
23:38:05*amiconn lost the asm suspend code in the last svn working copy messup :(
23:38:50jhMikeSlost it? was there much?
23:39:24jhMikeS600060a4 seems treated like 60006080 so maybe similar purpose?
23:39:48amiconnIt was the code from the OF disassembly, slightly adjusted
23:40:02amiconnI'll have to dig it up again and readjust
23:40:23rasherIs that terribly nice, legal-wise?
23:40:34low_lightgotta go
23:40:36 Part low_light
23:40:51jhMikeSamiconn: should I commit that pp patch you think?
23:40:53amiconnOf course I won't commit such stuff
23:41:12amiconnjhMikeS: Looks like it's working nicely, so...
23:41:17rasheramiconn: ah okay
23:41:32amiconnI need it as a reference what to do for suspend
23:41:35*jhMikeS just asks so he doesn't have to be totally svn blamed :P
23:42:07amiconnThe suspend code will mostly be C code in rockbox.
23:42:39amiconnI only diggend for it because the 0x60006044 reminded me of something in PP5002 suspend
23:43:04*jhMikeS now debates whether COP wake should happen before or after tick tasks
23:43:34amiconnDoes that matter?
23:43:52 Join Fordibolo [0] (
23:45:59Fordibolois it possible to install a WPS of ipod gen5 on my ipod mini?
23:46:45rasherFordibolo: it can be installed, but it'll either look bad or horrible
23:47:15Fordibolobad or horrible? i would have settled for "the same without the real colours"
23:47:58jhMikeSamiconn: not for the time being I guess
23:48:15iambenFordibolo: isnt the display resolution a lot lower too?
23:48:30iamben(rhetorical q, i suppose)
23:49:26Fordiboloi guess so..
23:49:32zichoIs there someone with a Gigabeat that can help me a little?
23:49:45amiconnjhMikeS: If the scheduler running on the CPU knows that there is no thread on the COP waiting, it could even let it sleep...
23:50:06amiconn(not sure whether that makes sense)
23:50:10toffe82zicho: ask
23:50:11jhMikeSamiconn: it can know that, sure
23:50:36zichotoffe82: Is there anyway to hop to the "now playing" window, and then hop back to were you were?
23:50:59rasherzicho: no. leaving the menu does so completely
23:51:18jhMikeSThe core entry just needs a thread counter and only needs to pulse the COP if something exists
23:51:35toffe82zicho: with the shorcut ?
23:52:05zichotoffe82: what shortcut?
23:52:41 Quit marcosource ("leaving")
23:53:09 Join ddalton [0] (
23:57:13jhMikeSmailboxes are actually a part of doing this but we don't have low-latency and atomic wakeups yet. I'll save that for later for sure.
23:57:53Fordiboloi still have 14 free mb on my ipod, but i can't copy files that are lesser than 15 mb to it, why is that?
23:57:59toffe82zicho: but I don't know if it is what you want

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