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#rockbox log for 2007-10-14

00:00:04Zagorcompile. connect. boot. wait for device. copy. disconnect. wait for database refresh. turn off. turn on. connect. read usbmon output. disconnect. turn off. repeat...
00:00:11Zagorthe story of my life
00:00:52amiconnZagor: Do you know how the magic bytes for the various e200 firmwares were figured out
00:01:03Zagorwhich magic bytes?
00:01:16amiconnThe ones which need to be set in order to suppress the db update
00:01:54LambdaCalculus37rasher: Does voice generation work for multiple languages, or just English?
00:02:05Zagorah those. I think bagder mentioned comparing the contents of partition 2 before and after refresh.
00:02:16Bagderexactly
00:02:34rasherLambdaCalculus37: It works (with some quirks in some cases) for all languages with an available TTS engine
00:02:39BagderI believe barry and jdgordon were involved
00:03:36LambdaCalculus37rasher: Since Tagalog doesn
00:03:36amiconnHmm. Looks like we could speed up mpegplayer a good deal on G5
00:03:40LambdaCalculus37'Oops.
00:04:04amiconnlcd_update() achieves 39.5fps when boosted, but lcd_yuv_blit() only manages 15.5fps
00:04:06LambdaCalculus37Since Tagalog doesn't have certain letters like "V" and "C", they're replaced with "B" and "K".
00:04:22LambdaCalculus37The vowels are the same as in most Latin languages.
00:04:36*amiconn will soon commit his improved test_fps
00:05:39 Nick parafin is now known as parafin|away (i=parafin@paraf.in)
00:08:51 Join matsl [0] (n=matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se)
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00:11:00LambdaCalculus37Should I commit the lang file to Flyspray when it's ready? (Silly question, I know.)
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00:12:06rasherLambdaCalculus37: well, yes
00:13:46LambdaCalculus37rasher: Okay. Once I start getting a decent amount of the phrases translated, I'll commit it.
00:14:05LambdaCalculus37I'll keep maintaining it as my girlfriend and I find more phrases.
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00:32:08LambdaCalculus37Damn... this is harder than I thought...
00:32:36 Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul)
00:36:19Bagderme and LinusN are both in China for a week, taking off tomorrow afternoon
00:36:44LambdaCalculus37Bagder: Bring lots of pictures! :)
00:36:49BagderZagor's left behind to babysit the servers ;-)
00:36:54scorchewill Zagor be around to poke servers, etc?
00:36:57scorche:)
00:37:33 Quit in-jane (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:43:55Zagorcan I get some more eyes on figure 32-78 in the imx31 manual? (pg 1389 in the pdf)
00:44:22Zagordoesn't that array look rather backwards? yet the text mentions nothing special.
00:48:25Zagorwhat kind of person draws a regular array upside down in the reference manual, if it's not?
00:50:41 Quit obo ("bye")
00:51:07XavierGrBagder, Linus: Have a nice trip then, and make some nice memories. (Bagder you will blog it won't you) :D
00:51:44webmindttp://bash.org/?814572
00:52:47 Join safetydan [0] (n=safetyda@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
00:52:50LambdaCalculus37rasher: Still around?
00:53:02rasherLambdaCalculus37: barely
00:53:59LambdaCalculus37rasher: Can I drop the file into my DAP and just load it in Rockbox to test it, or do I have to include it in /apps/lang/ in the source, then compile?
00:54:51rasherLambdaCalculus37: it needs to be converted into a binary language file (.lng). Doing so manually is more bother than manually compiling
00:55:54rasherLet me clarify: Using genlang to convert the language file is more bother than compiling all of Rockbox since the build system handles all the details
00:56:31LambdaCalculus37rasher: So compiling it is, then.
00:56:38LambdaCalculus37Just to test.
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00:58:39amiconnZagor: Do we have the TWiki TablePlugin installed?
00:59:10LambdaCalculus37Still going to post to FlySpray, though.
00:59:19ZagorI don't remember. checking...
00:59:26 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
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00:59:58Zagoramiconn: yes we do
01:00
01:00:13amiconnHmm, it seems I can't get rowspan to work....
01:00:29Zagoralthough perhaps it's not activated. I don't remember exactly how the twiki plugin system works.
01:01:58*Soap was pretty sure he had used rowspan in one of the ipod page tables...
01:02:17LambdaCalculus37Never thought Tagalog to be so damn complicated...
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01:08:49safetydaneh? where'd that yellow come from?
01:10:10 Quit n1s ()
01:10:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:10:30rashersafetydan: not to mention red
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01:11:19safetydanrasher, the red I can fix... the yellow I don't think has anything to do with me
01:11:47rasherah - no, it's been there for a while now
01:11:54rasherdepending on who's compiling
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01:20:48mickleby#thebox.bz
01:21:08scorchemickleby: your point?
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01:26:56safetydanmental note, don't code first thing in the morning
01:28:05 Quit ender` (" But there, everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the fu)
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01:30:09kugeli've got a question
01:30:31 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@c210-49-113-143.smelb1.vic.optusnet.com.au)
01:30:32kugelis this microsecon pause between the tracks normal?
01:30:42kugel+d
01:31:17kugelit's not really gapless
01:31:36 Join ddalton [0] (n=daniel@203-214-50-20.dyn.iinet.net.au)
01:31:40safetydankugel, what format? Rockbox should always be gapless when possible.
01:31:53kugelmp3 and aac
01:32:11LloreanBoth mp3 and aac formats natively do not encode gapless.
01:32:24LambdaCalculus37kugel: MP3 support gapless when you use LAME encoding.
01:32:31LambdaCalculus37*supports
01:32:32LloreanWhen you encode them you have to use an encoder that writes special metadata that tells the player where the actual song ends, since it's not the same place as where the file ends.
01:32:36kugeli've heard that lame encodes to gapless by default
01:32:41kugeland i used lame
01:32:46LambdaCalculus37kugel: What version?
01:32:47LloreanWhat version?
01:32:55kugel3.97 or something
01:33:10LambdaCalculus37Llorean: Isn't 3.97 the latest version?
01:33:16Soapand you used one of the presets?
01:33:24Llorean3.97 should include gapless.
01:33:36Soap3.97 is the latest version recommended by HA.
01:33:40LloreanAssuming that it's encoded using LAME from a properly gapless source
01:33:59LambdaCalculus37kugel: Where are you encoding from?
01:34:21kugeldo you mean the os?
01:34:32LambdaCalculus37kugel: Is it a CD or a WAV file, or something like that?
01:34:45SoapAs long as you encoded it with one of the -V presets, or the outdated -AP(S,X,I) you should be fine. Assuming a gapless source, and assuming you didn't throw any silly flags in your command string.
01:34:46kugelcd
01:34:59LambdaCalculus37kugel: And what software are you using to encode?
01:35:02Soapdoes your drive have a bad read-offset?
01:35:03linuxstbkugel: Are there any odd tags, such as APE?
01:35:04kugellame ;;
01:35:10kugelno
01:35:36kugelitunes handles the gapless flawlessy on these files
01:35:36Lloreankugel: And the CD is gapless audio?
01:35:42kugelyes
01:35:57LloreanAnd you aren't using replaygain?
01:36:04kugelno
01:36:06safetydanah, itunes gapless tags. Wasn't there an issue with those at some point?
01:36:15Lloreansafetydan: For M4A files
01:36:42Lloreankugel: What SVN revision are you using?
01:37:00Soapkugel, itunes is not a proper test case in this situation, as it does not read the LAME gapless info, rather it scans the files itself and creates its own gapless tags. Try a different player to compare.
01:37:38kugel15034
01:38:21Lloreankugel: That's 70 revisions old, for one thing. I assume at least that it's not a patched build in any way?
01:39:04kugelactually it's patched, but I tried it with a current build too
01:39:27LambdaCalculus37kugel: Might I suggest CDex for ripping CDs? It uses LAME for MP3 encoding. http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/
01:39:41kugeli know that program
01:39:53kugelbut i'm not encoding to mp3 anymore
01:40:20kugelbasically, it's not really a pause, more a microsecond between the songs
01:40:37LloreanYes, but for the rest of us there is no gap between songs.
01:40:40LambdaCalculus37kugel: That's still a pause, if you think about it.
01:40:49kugelyea, that's why i asked
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01:47:09LambdaCalculus37So far 31 strings have been translated in tagalog.lang... the root menu's translated and a few messages have been translated.
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02:00
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02:01:15Soaptell me when you translate 32, I won't use it until you translate 32. ;)
02:02:22LambdaCalculus37Soap: My girlfriend just gave me the 32nd string. :)
02:02:30LambdaCalculus37But we're running down the whole file.
02:03:01LambdaCalculus37Soap: I'll tell you when we get to 42 strings. ;)
02:04:06LloreanI think the point is, we don't need constant updates. Post a patch when it's done. ;)
02:04:11Mouser_XThat's it! The answer to Life, the universe, and everything! I look forward to when you have 42 lines translated.
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02:07:26LambdaCalculus37Llorean: No constant updates. I'll just say when it's in Flyspray.
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02:18:56karashatahmm, has anyone that is working on or has done work on the video game music format playback support looked into this before: http://www.slack.net/~ant/libs/audio.html#Game_Music_Emu
02:19:17Mouser_XYes.
02:19:30Mouser_XThat's where the SPC support was ported from.
02:19:36karashataokay, just thought I'd mention it since I stumbled on it
02:19:57Mouser_XIt's pretty well known in the VGM community.
02:20:25karashataI'm still rather new to it, I only really got into it because of the support in Rockbox
02:21:26Mouser_XThough, HCS (who brought NSF and SPC support) doesn't use it much for Rockbox, since it's written in C++.
02:22:02karashataah, well, it says it works with C as well on the page, and I know rockbox is written nearly entirely in C, so...
02:22:08Mouser_XThere's a patch for the GBS format in the flyspray, but it needs a lot of work. It's not ported from GME either.
02:22:14karashataas I said, just thought I'd mention it
02:23:16Mouser_XI could be wrong, but I think Rockbox's SID support needs work. It sounds fairly broken to me.
02:23:49 Quit homielowe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:24:04Mouser_XHowever, since I rarely (if ever) listen to SIDs on my PC, I could be wrong. They may sound identical to Rockbox.
02:24:25karashatacouldn't tell ya, I don't use SID
02:24:57karashataSPC works nicely as long as the tracks have been edited to size, and NSF works great aside from one file I have...
02:25:10Mouser_XSame. I've got the entire SID collection on my Gigabeat though, in case I ever do decide to listen to them.
02:25:59Mouser_X"edited to size" Do you mean timed? All SPCs are alway 65 KB.
02:26:15Mouser_X(So, in other words, tagged properly.)
02:26:34karashataproperly tagged, then...
02:26:37Mouser_XWhich NSF is giving you problems.
02:27:00karashatais the SMB3 NSF from... lemme check the site again...
02:27:06Mouser_X(HCS had to drop VRC7 support. It took to much CPU.)
02:27:19*Mouser_X boots up Rockbox
02:27:24karashatazophar.net I believe...
02:28:00karashatahttp://www.zophar.net/nsf/
02:28:29Mouser_XI'll be honest. Zophar was *great* in its day. However, it's outdated now (sad really). In other words, I recommend getting your stuff from somewhere else when possible.
02:28:46 Join SirFunk [0] (n=Sir@206-159-155-246.netsync.net)
02:30:36spkyhow can i tell what gen ipod i have
02:30:47spkyis there only one generation for the nano?
02:31:51Soapspky, there are three nano generations
02:32:18Soapplastic front, stainless steel back = 1st. All aluminum and skinny = 2nd, all aluminum and fat = 3rd
02:32:44spkyhow fat is fat?
02:33:08spkythis one is about as fat as the plug
02:33:23spkyg2?
02:33:34scorchesounds like it
02:33:44LloreanIf it's not G1, it's not supported anyway
02:33:58spkydamn it ;[
02:34:26spkylol how could there be a build for the ipod video but not nano g2 ;[
02:34:40scorchebecause they are totally different devices..
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02:35:37spkyis there any plan to support it in the near future?
02:35:49scorchewe dont make plans for new devices
02:35:50LloreanIt's not that simple.
02:36:14scorcheports are done by people who come forward with the device, and the time and capability to do it
02:36:19LloreanPeople who own the device have to put in lots of work, and it can take months or years to support a device when it's not based on previous devices (as the 2nd Gen and later Nanos are not)
02:36:34linuxstbspky: I'm not aware of anyone currently working on it, and it seems unlikely anyone will.
02:36:34spkyword
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02:36:49spkywish i was smart enough to help ;[
02:37:14spkyat least it works on my 5g =]
02:37:56spkyso who do i have to buy a nano to get it in the works?
02:37:58spkykidding
02:38:03spkythanks guys =]
02:38:56scorcheeven if a dev had one, it would still be quite a bit of work (if possible)
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02:41:16zichoit would be nice to see on the ipod classic
02:41:42scorchethen feel free to port it :)
02:41:47Mouser_XHeh
02:41:57scorchejust saying "it would be nice" doesnt do anything..
02:42:58zichoWell, no i guess youre right =P
02:43:02LambdaCalculus37You have to do a lot of the dirty work as well.
02:43:12zichobut that would mean id had to buy an ipod, and that i would not do.
02:44:07LambdaCalculus37zicho: Well, there you have it.
02:44:18zichoI guess. Haha.
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02:49:28SoapMrH is the one who needs to be showered in new iPods. Maybe some coffee and cash as well.
02:51:07LambdaCalculus37Soap: I can send him few cans of coffee. :)
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03:10:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:19:25RaZorbacK_hi. i've just applied a patch but many hunkds failed. How could i reverse only this patch without reverting everything ?
03:20:17Mouser_Xhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SimpleGuideToCompiling
03:20:25Mouser_X(It's in there somewhere.
03:20:26Mouser_X)
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03:49:10ptw419anyone know of a program that can convert hex into op codes?
03:50:15ptw419or a disassembler i should say?
03:50:26ptw419for arm
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03:52:58JdGordonarm-elf-objdump ?
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04:00
04:00:47Nimdaejust wanted to comment about the lockup bug i mentioned earlier, i just got around to testing the fix and it works as far as i can see :D i'm sure that was already well known though
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04:30:48LogomachistHi
04:31:07LogomachistCan anyone tell me if Rockbox can play DivX files?
04:31:16JdGordonyes we can
04:31:26JdGordonnot it cant
04:31:44jhMikeSyes it can't?
04:32:27LloreanYes we can tell him that no it can't.
04:32:33Llorean:)
04:33:10Logomachist:(
04:33:25LambdaCalculus37We can also tell him that he can convert files using instructions on this page: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LangFiles?topic=PluginMpegplayer
04:33:28LloreanLogomachist: Why not just convert them? You have to resize them anyway, and it's the same process.
04:35:46LambdaCalculus37Logomachist: You can use a program like VLC or WinFF to encode the files.
04:35:54LambdaCalculus37All of the needed instructions are listed.
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04:38:30LogomachistReencoding the files for playback on a PMP jars my sense of efficiency. I'd need to keep double copies of the files, or more if I wanted to play them on multiple devices. Is that really how everyone does it?
04:38:56Soapdouble copies?
04:39:02LogomachistYeah.
04:39:44SoapYou need to have a copy on each device, regardless - if the copies are identical or if they are not - there is no difference. Neither one way or the other can be called efficient.
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04:41:30zeif you wanna think of efficiency, think of this
04:41:32LloreanAlso, you've made the mistake that any device Rockbox runs on could be considered a PMP. They're all MP3 players, with processors in the speed range expected for audio playback, which is why they cost so much less than say, the Archos 604 at comparable storage capacities.
04:41:54zea resized and transcoded file is probably gonna take up less space on your device
04:42:04*scorche prefers the term "DAP"
04:42:05zeand less processor usage to playback
04:42:34zeand probably better visual quality since you can use better scaling algorithms when you transcode than would probably be practical on the device in realtime
04:42:43ze(if it'd even be practical on the device at all)
04:42:43Lloreanze: The processors aren't fast enough to resize fullsize video and playback realtime at all, really
04:42:49LogomachistI know some Rockbox platforms are audio only, but for my purposes I was planning on getting a video player.
04:43:15LloreanLogomachist: And which Rockbox platform is marketed as a PMP? Even the iPod Video is marketed as an audio device with tacked on video functionality.
04:43:15zeok well see, speak of effeciency
04:43:21zewhat you wanna do isn't even efficient enough to work
04:43:22ze:p
04:43:55LloreanAnd its video functionality requires conversion using iTunes for the Apple firmware. We can't use its special tacked on video chip (it really is just an iPod with an added video chip) anyway, so it's actually one of the worst Rockbox players for video.
04:44:32LogomachistPhone call- bbs
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05:03:16LambdaCalculus37I'm going to call it a night... I need to rest for a while.
05:03:22LambdaCalculus37I'll see everyone again soon!
05:03:28LambdaCalculus37Good night, everyone!
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05:12:20LogomachistBAK
05:14:22LogomachistYou're talking about efficientcy from the player's side of things.
05:15:44LogomachistFor me, it's better... and more efficient... for me to rip a song/video once, save it in high res, and then play the same file back on whatever device I want to watch it on.
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05:16:58Chronondefine "whatever device"
05:16:59LogomachistBut it sounds like the portable video players aren't there yet in terms of power.
05:17:17DogBoyLlorean, that's not true, maybe you're speaking in general
05:17:37LogomachistAnything... my PC, a portable video player, a laptop, a TV.
05:17:37DogBoyI convert stuff to watch on ipod all the time and I have never used itunes
05:17:55scorcheLogomachist: well, that isnt going to happen on a device that has 80 MHz (not sure which you are referring to)
05:18:51LloreanDogBoy: Well, you need something that will update the Apple database with the location of the video, and you need a program that converts to the specific format that apple chose to support
05:19:16LloreanLogomachist: If you want to do that, buy a small laptop or UMPC.
05:19:35DogBoyyes you do Llorean but you don't need itunes for that
05:19:42LogomachistScorche I was speaking generally about what I wanted. I don't know exactly what's availiable because I've never looked into it before.
05:20:19scorcheLogomachist: from what you are saying, it just doesnt make sense to get a DAP, or even a PMP
05:20:26DogBoyI agree with the main point you're making though
05:20:34LogomachistWhy's that?
05:20:39LloreanDogBoy: Yes, but the point was more that you're restricted in what formats the device can play, and it requires conversion unless your video happens to in advance be in an acceptable form factor
05:20:57DogBoyyes and that's what I agree with
05:20:57LloreanIn fact, I'm not wholly sure iTunes even converts videos.
05:21:13DogBoyyour point was a bit overstated was all I was trying to say
05:21:15scorcheLogomachist: because you are just expecting way too much power from a device...if you want that kind of power, get an oqo or something like it
05:21:32Logomachist::looks up oqo::
05:21:49scorchebasically a mini laptop
05:22:17LloreanLogomachist: DAPs and even PMPs are designed to be relatively low cost. Even high end ones have restrictions on the maximum resolution you can play, or what formats are supported, simply because if you ask someone for $800 for a portable device, they're unlikely to pay it.
05:22:17LogomachistYikes! oqo is way more than I wanted to spend.
05:22:38ChrononLogomachinist, also consider that rescaling in real time for a small screen is going to chew up the limited battery power of a DAP.
05:22:38LogomachistThat makes sense.
05:23:07DogBoychew up _more_ battery power anyway
05:23:15LogomachistI'm surprised.
05:23:16DogBoyit's still practical though
05:23:19scorchewell, it is either you spend a bunch, or you accept reencoding...there isnt a middle ground with this, really
05:23:24DogBoyat least with a video ipod
05:23:26ChrononDogBoy, what are you talking about?
05:23:28LloreanDogBoy: It's not too practical.
05:23:30scorchewhat is surprising?
05:23:40DogBoydepends on how you define practical
05:23:41LloreanDogBoy: The video iPod only scales from 640x480 doesn't it?
05:23:42LogomachistPCs have been rescaling videos since the very first video players.
05:23:51DogBoymore or less
05:24:07DogBoyit's more based on macro blocks
05:24:14ChrononLogomachinist, but they have a power supply that runs off of line power
05:24:16LloreanDogBoy: The iPod Video also has a specific chip just for decoding videos,
05:24:22LloreanIt's not doing it in software in the same way Rockbox has to
05:24:31DogBoythere is a maximum number of pixels it will display
05:24:59scorcheLogomachist: they werent scaling 1080p videos....resolutions have grown as computer power has grown
05:25:04LloreanLogomachist: And even if you scaled down a video, it still took more power to decode a high resolution video than a low-res one.
05:25:05DogBoyLlorean, what part of what you said did you here me arguing with you
05:25:13DogBoyI agree with your main point
05:25:24DogBoyit's just the specifics that were not entirely correct
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05:25:53scorchewhat specifics are those?
05:25:53LloreanScaling video on a portable device is almost entirely impractical assuming that the video file is intended for use solely on the portable device.
05:26:02DogBoywhat's up scorche
05:26:13DogBoyyou can read what I said earlier
05:26:27LloreanSo, assuming that you must convert for the portable device in advance, it should be converted to the screen resolution both to save space, optimize quality, and save power.
05:26:39scorchei have, and i havent seen you correct anything that Llorean may have said wrong
05:26:43DogBoyon most devices
05:26:51DogBoybut not on the ipod video
05:27:06LloreanDogBoy: Are you claiming that it's magically equally efficient to decode 640x480 as 320x240?
05:27:18DogBoynot at all
05:27:40DogBoyjust pointing out that equal and practicable are not the same thing
05:27:52DogBoyit's a matter of opinion
05:27:57LogomachistI didn't want to convert in advance at all, that was my point. Yeah, if I'm going to convert it, I might as well do so specifically for the device I'm going to play it on, but I hadn't anticipated needing to.
05:28:13DogBoyLogomachist, yea but you're gonna
05:28:21DogBoywhat he's saying is correct
05:28:27LloreanGiven the assumption I stated, that the video n the device is intended for use solely on the device, how is "longer encode times, shorter battery life, and significantly increased storage costs" not impractical?
05:28:29scorcheLogomachist: were you thinking it had the same processor as your computer does?
05:28:51DogBoyheh
05:29:41DogBoyI'm not interested in debating the finer points, just in pointing out that I do it all the time, without itunes and at higher res than screen size and have not found it to be impractical
05:29:54DogBoyymmv
05:30:14LloreanClearly you don't actually value your storage space as much as I do, then.
05:30:23LloreanI wouldn't want to waste half my capacity on needlessly large files.
05:30:23DogBoyheh
05:30:35DogBoyit's not clear at all
05:30:38LloreanOh?
05:30:43DogBoyare you an ipod video user
05:30:51LloreanI use a device with identical screen resolution.
05:30:51LogomachistNo... I hadn't given it much thought, but I assumed that the small screen + dedicated hardware would be able to handle pretty much anything I threw at it. I mean, I watched .avis on Pentiums with screens far larger in pixels than kind of video player I was considering buying.
05:30:58DogBoywith what codec
05:31:03LloreanWhy does it matter?
05:31:10DogBoyfile size
05:31:17LloreanFile size is dependent on bitrate only
05:31:21DogBoyhehe
05:31:34DogBoyyou got me there
05:31:42LogomachistHow different is a mpeg file from an animated gif?
05:31:49scorcheLogomachist: those also had graphics chips for 2d acceleration, much more ram, dedicated power, different arch, etc
05:31:56LloreanLogomachist: So different there's not a reasonable basis for comparison.
05:31:58DogBoyso how big is an hour of video on your device generally Llorean
05:32:08LloreanDogBoy: Depends on what quality I want from it.
05:32:24LloreanDogBoy: Anywhere from about 250mb to 500mb
05:32:30DogBoyhmm
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05:33:00LloreanDepending on fullscreen vs widescreen, and the source.
05:33:38DogBoyI thought it was completely dependent on bit rate
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05:33:53LloreanYes, and I choose my bitrate depending on the quality of the source and the resolution I'm encoding at
05:34:22LloreanIf I'm encoding at fullscreen 320x240 I'll often pick a slightly higher resolution than if I'm encoding at widescreen since there's less pixels to fill
05:34:23DogBoywas that an admission that other factors contribute to file size?
05:34:26LloreanNo.
05:34:34LloreanOther factors contribute to which bitrate I choose
05:34:41DogBoyI see
05:34:43LloreanFilesize is still 100% dependent upon which value I enter as bitrate.
05:34:57DogBoywhich varies based on those other factors
05:35:03Chrononbitrate*time = # of bits
05:35:10LloreanWhich can vary based on those
05:35:19LloreanI could simply use 256kbps as a constant for any input video.
05:35:29LloreanIn which case in some cases it would look fine, and others quite horrible.
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05:36:34LogomachistWhat I was trying to get at was... an animated gif and the video part of an mpeg both accomplish the same thing. An animated gif stores a frame, and then each time the frame changes it stores the part that changes.
05:36:34ddaltonsdoyon: can you send me your updated set?
05:36:37DogBoyanyway, what device are you talking about
05:36:48ddaltonI haven't checked my emails for five hours so maybe you have
05:37:15LogomachistI iAh, nevermind.
05:37:16LloreanDogBoy: I don't see that it's relevant, but there's only one other Rockboxable target with the same screen size as the iPod video, the Gigabeat F/X
05:37:34LogomachistIt'd probably be hard to explain to someone like me.
05:37:39DogBoythe relevant part is me being curious
05:38:01sdoyonddalton: Haven't yet. Putting things together.
05:38:10sdoyonddalton: got to go now though. Sorry. bye
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05:40:41LogomachistSo scaling a video requires lots of computation beyond just skipping over every other pixel.
05:40:59DogBoywell it depends
05:41:19DogBoyas was pointed out earlier the ipod video uses a dedicated chip
05:41:45DogBoybut in general yes you want to encode to the display res
05:41:47LloreanNo, it still requires lots of computation in the iPod Video
05:41:57LloreanIt just requires that the special chip do it instead of the same core as is running the OS
05:42:08DogBoyit's besides the point really
05:42:17DogBoyit's a question of what is practical
05:42:32TMMwell, that extra core isn't just a general purpose CPU isn't it?
05:42:32LloreanA video at higher resolution simply has more information to decode, and so takes more energy to do so.
05:42:42DogBoyand this would have different answers depending on what you are valuing
05:42:53LloreanTMM: The Broadcom chip has a DSP and an extra multipurpose core, if what I'm told is correct.
05:43:03DogBoybattery life vs how it looks on a tv for example
05:43:15LogomachistI'm not aruging against practicality, I'm just trying to understand the reason things work like they do. What I'm going to buy is another question altogether.
05:43:25LloreanDogBoy: And "how it looks on a TV" was excluded by the assumption I clearly stated before stating my opinion on the matter, which you claimed was incorrect.
05:43:40ddaltonI was looking a sand disk e 250 at the shops. It was two gb and looked very good to me. (Good for a blind user) Could somone tell me if this is the same as the sansa e250? is sansa sand disk
05:43:48ddaltonsomone
05:43:51ddaltonsomeone
05:43:52TMMI thought the broadcom chip IS a DSP
05:44:11LloreanLogomachist: It's basically simple math. If you have to compress four times the pixels, it takes more effort both to compress and decompress, not counting any scaling afterward.
05:44:13DogBoyI said your opinion was correct
05:44:21scorcheddalton: they are the same device, yes
05:44:27DogBoyI had trouble with certain specific things you said related to it
05:44:47DogBoylike needing to use itunes etc
05:44:52ddaltonand can it play video (for sighted friends) and it was au $170 so is this good value?
05:45:14LloreanDogBoy: And we already resolved the itunes thing.
05:45:24TMMpersonally, I never saw the point of watching a movie on 2.5" screen :) I sometimes watch video on my PSP, and I think that's painful at times
05:45:28scorcheddalton: it can be had for a third of the price over here...
05:45:42DogBoywhat is it we're trying to resolve now?
05:45:55ddaltonscorche: how much is it there? Are you in the US?
05:46:09scorcheyes... 50 USD
05:46:20LloreanDogBoy: I don't know, you seem to pipe in on "what's practical" and argue that it's practical to waste space and CPU power. Because, under the assumptions I put forth, they are 100% wasted.
05:46:31ddaltonhmmm so that's about 70 au dollars?
05:46:37ddaltonor 85
05:46:41ddaltonsomething like that?
05:46:51LogomachistOk... I think I get it now. When you read a simple bitmap, you're reading pixel by pixel and you can skip over pixels you don't care about, but to play a video you need to have the whole video in memory before display any of it.
05:47:02scorcheddalton: google says 55.5
05:47:05LogomachistYes?
05:47:38LloreanLogomachist: Close enough to come across as a general picture of what restricts it, yes. :)
05:47:58LogomachistWait, then how does streaming work?
05:48:06DogBoy<Llorean> So, assuming that you must convert for the portable device in advance, it should be converted to the screen resolution both to save space, optimize quality, and save power.
05:48:34*alienbiker99 hates DRM
05:48:37LloreanDogBoy: (10:29:41 PM) Llorean: Given the assumption I stated, that the video n the device is intended for use solely on the device
05:48:46DogBoyI was trying to point out that if you were going to use tv out, you might want to use a higher res
05:48:55LloreanNote the word "solely" in that one.
05:49:07TMMalienbiker99: doesn't any consumer hate DRM? :)
05:49:24alienbiker99they should.
05:49:39DogBoyso I make note of something you say after I make my point
05:49:47LloreanLogomachist: I'm not quite certain what you're asking.
05:49:49DogBoyit's fine
05:50:12LloreanDogBoy: Yes, I said it to clarify, because I realized "for the device" might not be clear enough that it was intended _for_ the device.
05:50:33LloreanBut it's not like you dropped the point after I clarified, now is it?
05:50:43LogomachistWhen you stream a video, you start watching it before it finishes downloading. So you can't need the entire file to start decompressig it.
05:50:48DogBoyI'm not sure what we're arguing about
05:50:58DogBoyexcept I guess you're pissed
05:51:24LloreanLogomachist: A video has three dimensions. Length, width, and time.
05:52:24Logomachistk
05:52:27LloreanLogomachist: Most of the filesize is changes over time. So when you're streaming, it can show a picture while downloading more "time" then change that picture for what changes over time.
05:52:37LloreanSo you only need a little bit of "time" at a time.
05:52:41DogBoyI guess I didn't make it very clear, I was just trying to point out that the general case you made [for encoding to the target screen res] didn't exactly apply to the video ipod
05:52:46DogBoybecause of the tv out
05:52:51LloreanBut you still need all the length and width before you can make a smaller length and width picture.
05:53:04LloreanDogBoy: Which Rockbox doesn't support, and this is #Rockbox.
05:53:33DogBoyI didn't bring up video encoding on the ipod
05:53:55LloreanRockbox supports the iPod Video just fine. But it has no current feature for video output to another device.
05:54:53LloreanDogBoy: Do you actually use Rockbox?
05:55:02DogBoyyes
05:55:29DogBoypretty much every day
05:55:41DogBoynot for video though
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05:57:25ddaltonso is the e250 a good player? What is the down side with it?
05:57:32ddaltonand what good features does it have?
05:58:16LogomachistBut... since most of the file is made up of change over time I would think that change over time is what you're spending most of your time decompressing. Length and width wouldn't be all that different than a bitmap. Which has to be wrong, given what you're saying, but I don't get why.
06:00
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06:31:46ddaltonscorche: is the e250 the same as the e200r?
06:32:19scorcheddalton: there is no such thing as an e200r...it is the "e200 series, r version"
06:32:44ddaltonscorche: ok so what moddles are there then?
06:33:20scorchehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SanDisk_Sansa#e200_series
06:36:01*scorche sees that the rockbox wikipedia page has grown pretty big...
06:36:41DogBoyddalton, I have an e280
06:36:51DogBoyit's nice
06:37:08scorchehrm...quite a bit of changes need to be made too..
06:37:23ddaltonDogBoy: Better than the ipods?
06:37:23DogBoyscratches easily, has some noise between tracks during playback
06:37:28DogBoyimo
06:37:34DogBoyfor music anyway
06:37:43DogBoybetter battery life
06:38:18ddaltonscorche: so it comes in 2 4 and 8 gb. So what's the r one?
06:38:23scorcheand 6
06:38:31ddaltonoh ok
06:38:37scorchethe r is a bit down on that page...
06:38:45scorcheparagraph after teh next
06:39:18ddaltonHey rockbox got a mention :-)
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06:41:34ddaltonscorche: so what is the best sansa moddle?
06:42:02webguest28how do i install the rockbox drivr on my ipod
06:42:02scorchewell, the e series, and the 280 is the 8 gig, so...
06:42:11scorchedrivr?
06:42:15webguest28i meant boot
06:42:35ddaltonwebguest28: you read the manual :-)
06:42:49webguest28yes
06:42:55ddaltonscorche: what about rockbox support
06:43:01ddaltonwhat is better with rb?
06:43:19webguest28and i tried to install it and that worked but it must have had an error
06:43:19scorchewell, rockbox tried to be the same as it cn be on all devices...
06:43:23scorchetries
06:43:33scorchewebguest28: well, what happened?
06:43:47ddaltonI know but what is better at the minute.
06:43:53webguest28i launched the installer
06:44:07webguest28it said it worked
06:44:07scorcherbutil?
06:44:47ddaltonscorche: so there is a different build for the 200 r or what ever its called?
06:44:50webguest28then after i reset my ipod it said it had an error loading rockbox on my ipods screen
06:45:00scorcheddalton: different install method...for now at least
06:45:09scorchewebguest28: well, what error?
06:45:09webguest28what do you meen
06:45:18webguest28?
06:45:29scorchewhat error?
06:45:37ddaltonscorche: what about build as in the firmware that you build from source. The one with the .rockbox dir.
06:45:46ddaltoni guess you know what Im talking about :-)
06:46:02webguest28it installed it after i launched it then when it was loading on the ipod it said error file not found
06:46:14scorcheddalton: actually, i dont...everything is teh same except for the install method
06:46:19ddaltonwebguest28: did you extract your build
06:46:22ddaltoncorrectly?
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06:46:58ddaltonscorche: So I am going to play with it on the sim I know won't do much but just to see what it has so do I press 51?
06:47:05ddaltonto select the e250?
06:47:23webguest28what do you meen install methods?
06:47:30scorcheddalton: i dont quite see what you want to accomplish with the sim...
06:48:09ddaltonscorche: I know but just to have a look and see what plugins it has and stuff. Or is the sim a lot different from the actual player
06:48:12webguest09hey, does anyone no how to boot an ipod nano in the apple software instead of rockbox? i got it to do it once but i cant anymore, im pretty sure it has something to do with restarting it and pushing some buttons but i cant figure it out
06:48:17scorchewebguest28: when i prefix a name and then a colon in front of what i say, it means i am talking to them....that was prefixed with a "ddalton:"
06:48:30scorchewebguest09: this si discussed int he FAQ
06:48:54ddaltonwebguest09: yes when it is booting turn hold on
06:49:10webguest28can someone help me to understand how to install rockbox on my ipod?
06:49:55webguest28hi
06:49:56scorchewebguest28: as has been said, the manual explains everything, and you likely performed an error with the "installing the firmware" step in the manual
06:50:16webguest28all it said to do is click the link
06:50:25webguest28i clicked it then i opened it
06:50:36scorcheat first, but there should still be a bit about it after..
06:50:40webguest28it installed it and i followed all the steps
06:50:54webguest09okay, thanks but i cant look at the faq, the comp im on is not mine and doesnt have all the software to look at that stuff
06:51:05*ddalton didn't see they needed different builds
06:51:22scorchewebguest09: the FAQ is just a simple html page...
06:51:30scorcheddalton: they dont
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06:51:54webguest28can you tell me a link to the boot installer for rockbox
06:52:12scorcheboot installer?
06:52:42webguest28boot loader, sorry
06:52:46scorcheit seems your bootloader installation is fine...as i said, focus ont he "installing the firmware" step
06:53:18webguest28ok
06:53:23ddaltonscorche: I don't need any special compilers for the e200?
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06:53:32ddaltonI installed cygwin about 2 years a go.
06:53:37webguest28im in the pdf manual right now
06:53:38ddaltonmaybe 1 actually
06:53:48scorcheddalton: just the usual arm-elf-gcc
06:53:49webguest28how do i put the firmware on it
06:54:14ddaltonits arm like the ipods?
06:54:39scorchewebguest28: 2.3.2 "installing the firmware"
06:54:49scorcheddalton: PP5024
06:54:55webguest28yes
06:54:59ddaltonwebguest28: you extract to the root of your player
06:56:00ddaltonscorche: do you have time to test something?
06:56:13scorchethat depends on what i am testing
06:56:25webguest28ok
06:56:36ddaltonwell I have a patch can you see if you can build with the sim and run the sim with it?
06:56:50webguest28it says the mounting point is wrong when i tell it to install rockbox on my ipod
06:57:10scorchewebguest28: what are you doing?
06:57:56webguest28me?
06:57:56ddaltonscorche: what sise sd card will work on the e250 with rb?
06:58:14scorcheas big as you can get...rockbox supports SDHC
06:58:21ddaltonwebguest28: yes he even said your name!
06:58:41ddaltonscorche: so what size can I get?
06:58:55scorchelike i said...as big as you can find
06:59:00DogBoybeen wondering about that myself
06:59:13DogBoyI thought like 8 gig was supposed to be available soon
06:59:32ddaltonhow much are they? The 4 gb or 8 gb ones?
06:59:38ddaltonroughly?
06:59:43DogBoygoogle on it
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06:59:55scorcheddalton: no clue...check around local retailers
07:00
07:00:01DogBoyI didn't find any that were readily available
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07:00:31DogBoygot a 2 gig one from frys though
07:00:40ddaltonare they different to the normal sd card in a phone or something?
07:00:46DogBoyand had to replace it within a couple weeks
07:00:53DogBoymicro sd
07:01:04DogBoylike in _my_ phone, I don't know about your's
07:01:11ddaltonDogBoy: so their smaller?
07:01:52DogBoylike the size of a pinkies nail
07:01:52webguest28ok i have an 80 gig ipod video 5.5g, i am trying to install rockbox, i have the rockbox utility on my computer and i am trying to install it on my ipod but it always says wrong mounting point everytime i try it
07:01:58webguest28what do i do?
07:02:24ddaltonDogBoy: ok thanks
07:02:27DogBoyisn't the 80 gig just barely supported?
07:02:37webguest28ya
07:02:45DogBoyso read the docs
07:02:45webguest28but its still supported
07:02:55ddaltonwebguest28: is there another option apart from rbutil or what ever your using?
07:02:57webguest28i read the pdf
07:03:08scorchewebguest28: use the manual method then...
07:03:11ddaltonDogBoy: good idea
07:03:20DogBoyheh
07:03:44DogBoyI did manual install for my 30 gig
07:03:56webguest28how do i do the manual way i cant figure that out?
07:04:41DogBoyif you can't figure it out... how is somebody on irc that's not even there going to figure it out
07:04:57Mouser_XI did once, many months ago.
07:05:12webguest28what?
07:05:24ddaltonMouser_X: what player do you have
07:05:37Mouser_XI installed Rockbox on the iPod, even though I don't own, or use, an iPod. Nor did I even see the iPod I installed it to.
07:05:42scorchewebguest28: manual...
07:05:44*Mouser_X has a Gigabeat
07:06:02webguest2880gig ipod video released late in 2006
07:06:10Mouser_XI pretty much read the manual to someone over IRC...
07:06:22webguest28how do i manualy install rockbox on it
07:06:36ddaltonwebguest28: didn't you already ask that?
07:06:40scorchewebguest28: last tiem i am telling you....it is right there in the manual...i even pointed you tot he location
07:06:41ddaltonwhat does the manual say?
07:06:42webguest28yes
07:06:55webguest28i didnt get a straight answer though
07:07:14ddaltonasking 10 times isn't likely to get you one
07:07:16ddaltoneither
07:07:31DogBoyMouser_X, maybe you can do it again
07:07:44Mouser_XI would *really* rather not.
07:07:49Mouser_XIt was a pain last time.
07:08:13webguest28huh?
07:08:21DogBoythat was my point Mouser_X
07:09:00webguest28what?
07:09:13scorchewebguest28: not everyone is talking to you..
07:09:22Mouser_XAlso, this was before there as the Rbutil to use to install on iPods.
07:09:31*ddalton Gives up
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07:10:02Mouser_XI had to explain the manual method. It involved guess work, since I had no idea what the iPod would do/look like/ ect.
07:10:19DogBoyand why bother
07:10:23DogBoythat's what docs are for
07:10:25scorcheyou didnt *have* to
07:10:28Mouser_XHowever, the person I explained to got the idea, since Rockbox did successfully install for them.
07:10:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:10:39DogBoywhat part are you stuck on webguest28
07:11:11ddaltonwhat everyone is commenting on my comment?
07:11:22ddaltonor something or did I miss something when I left
07:11:34Mouser_Xscorche: In the process of explaining, I did *have* to use the manual method, since no other method was available at the time. However, I didn't *have* to explain it at all, so you're correct in that aspect.
07:11:48webguest28sorry im just frusterated because now when ever i plug my ipod in it doesnt show up on itunes and i would like to wipe it out and reinstall the apple firmware?
07:12:03webguest28but it isnt showing up
07:12:06scorchewebguest28: the apple firmware is still there....
07:12:07scorcheread
07:12:08scorchethe
07:12:09DBUGEnqueued KICK scorche
07:12:09scorchemanual
07:12:10Mouser_XThe Apple firmware is still there.
07:12:14DogBoyhehe
07:12:26Mouser_XiPod = unbrickable.
07:12:29CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
07:12:29*ddalton Wonders why we write manuals if no one reads them!
07:12:37Mouser_XUnless you cause physical damage to it.
07:12:52scorcheit can be bricked...just not if you follow our process (or even deviate from it quite a large bit)
07:12:55Mouser_X(At least, it can't be bricked by Rockbox)
07:13:04ddaltonMouser_X: yes but the hard drives break after about 12 months of use
07:13:13Mouser_XWow, that sucks...
07:13:25Mouser_XI hope that's not the case for *all* HDD based players...
07:13:29ddaltonI know never going to buy an ipod again.
07:13:31scorcheddalton: that depends...
07:13:37webguest28i meen everytime i reset the ipod the message shows up on the screen of the ipod that it cant find the boot files
07:13:44*Mouser_X has had his Gigabeat since January.
07:13:50Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
07:13:52Mode"#rockbox +b %*!*446fc03a@* " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
07:13:57ddaltonwebguest28: This is the last time I will help. Put it into disk mode
07:14:07scorchewebguest28: you are muted for 10 minutes...please use that time to go over the manual
07:14:20ddaltonscorche: He can talk?
07:14:23ddaltoncan't
07:14:24scorcheno he cant
07:15:00ddaltonscorche: Well I know the hard drive is broken I got aliask to test it for me in his hard drive thing
07:15:12ddaltonfor 1.8 drives
07:15:31scorcheddalton: that doesnt mean all the hard drives break after around 12 months
07:15:35Mouser_XI'll have to be sure to keep an eye out for cheap drives then...
07:15:42ddaltonyes but hang on for a min
07:16:06scorcheddalton: no need...things happen, or they dont....it is a subjective thing for all hard drives
07:16:16*Mouser_X doesn't trust the iPod as far as he can throw it.
07:16:22scorche(subjective as in it differs for each hard drive)
07:16:28Mouser_XThough, with as small as they are, I could probably throw it quite a ways.
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07:18:22Mouser_X"Waiting for Rockbox 3.0" http://lwn.net/Articles/183931/
07:18:29Mouser_XThey've been waiting for awhile...
07:18:39ddaltonI remember reading on wiki about all these broken ipods and the hard drives break after 12 months.
07:18:55ddaltonSince they aren't made to be moved around or something
07:19:14scorcheddalton: well, more people get them, so more people are there to complain about failures...
07:19:30scorchethey arent any different from other DAP HDs
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07:20:11ddaltonyes but the other ones are better protected.
07:20:16ddaltonlike h300
07:20:48ddaltonand don't you think a 20 gb ipod would be more than a 20 gb tosheba or something since it has a "apple" brand?
07:21:12scorchei wouldnt think that would have anything to do with it..
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07:21:51ddaltonWell I won't buy one. And the click wheel isn't really that good.
07:22:07scorchefor blind users, i wouldnt think so
07:22:24ddaltonwhat does "blind users" have to do with this?
07:22:32ddaltonexactly?
07:23:11scorchebecause the click where has no tactile response...not even a bump where you can feel where it is
07:23:20scorches/where/wheel
07:23:33ddaltonwell I found it easy to use but kept on missing menu options and stuff
07:23:52ddaltonYou can find the click wheel very easy with a skin
07:24:02ddaltonor what ever there called.
07:24:12scorchethat is true...tactile response is handy too though
07:24:25*scorche hates using an ipod in his pocket
07:26:02nave7693for what its worth the ipod is the only player I have seen to include unicode support out of the box
07:26:21advcomp2019the sansa is bit better to use in a pocket
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07:26:56scorchenave7693: well, we dont really care about the OF here...
07:27:10Mode"#rockbox -b %*!*446fc03a@* " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
07:27:18Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
07:28:04ddaltonscorche: yes
07:28:10nave7693well we can at least give apple that much, just sayin
07:28:53ddaltonscorche: is there an option for the sansa e200 in settings called "central european"?
07:29:00ddaltonor is my voice file wrong?
07:29:13scorchecould be something to do with the radio, perhaps...
07:29:35ddaltonscorche: in "setings"?
07:30:19scorcheif you are referring to not in any sub-menus, then it likely is something with your voice file
07:31:48ddalton<scorche: is there an option about the sd card in system below rockbox info?
07:32:12scorcheddalton: i dont know...doesnt the manual have a full listing of the tree?
07:32:34ddaltonit probably does I will look there
07:33:07ddaltonwhere should I get one from (e200)? you said au $170 is a lot for one
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07:33:34*scorche shrugs...i just know of places int he US
07:33:53ddaltonany online?
07:34:22scorche...ones that only ship to the US...
07:38:41nave7693ddalton: tried your luck in ebay?
07:39:08ddaltonnave7693: yeah a couple of weeks a go I will try again
07:39:28nave7693ddalton: ok... just curious how much is an ipod there?
07:39:31ddaltonso what is below the rockbox info option? it is something about an sd card what is it for?
07:39:52ddaltonnave7693: Um im in australia is that a problem?
07:40:06ddaltonand I haven't looked at the ipods I don't like them
07:40:34*ddalton gets back to his c book
07:40:45nave7693ddalton: no... not a problem for me
07:41:10ddaltonnave7693: what cuntry are you in?
07:41:18nave7693ddalton: US
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09:00
09:10:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:12:18JdGordonwell this is just fucked!
09:16:17JdGordonFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09:16:21*JdGordon found the bloody problem
09:17:41Mouser_XIs it bloody because you've been beating yourself up over it? :P
09:18:07JdGordonit looks like cofigure does something funny which i wasnt expecting
09:18:07JdGordoni tinhk
09:19:40JdGordontime to get it working in windows then
09:20:15JdGordonexcept i cant compile for windows :'(
09:20:49JdGordonping linuxstb_... wakey wakey... its 8am, rise and shine!
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09:23:45JdGordoncan anyone compile a windows binary with libusb?
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09:39:58JdGordonanyone know where mingw's -L path starts?
09:40:09JdGordon-I even
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10:05:23VariableJdGordon: "ping"?
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10:37:33linuxstbJdGordon: What do you need?
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10:41:53raphiI get an error message while compiling rockbox (Revision 13000/13500 I tried) http://pastebin.ca/736163
10:42:00raphican someone help me?
10:42:39JdGordonlinuxstb: hey, I fonud out whats stopping the installer from running... can you build a win32 e200rpatcher with a bin ill send you?
10:42:55linuxstbSure. What was the problem?
10:43:01Lloreanraphi: Those are 2000, and 1500 revisions old, or so
10:43:26JdGordonsomething corrupts the binary instead of just copying it from the bootloader/ folder
10:43:37JdGordonsomething simple in the Makefile problably
10:43:56linuxstbWhy worry about that - just use the version inside bootloader/ ?
10:44:16JdGordonwe wont anymore.. just annoying that that was the problem
10:44:31JdGordonjdgordon.info/rockbox/bootloader.bin">http://jonno.jdgordon.info/rockbox/bootloader.bin definatyl works
10:44:41raphilLorean: I know... I just wan't to figure out if the recording on an iAudio X5 (60gb) never worked, or if it was working a time ago...
10:45:22Lloreanraphi: It used to work, and nobody's reported a bug with it.
10:45:53linuxstbJdGordon: File not found...
10:45:58raphillorean: sure? I'll try to check with the original firmware....
10:47:24JdGordonlinuxstb: dcc or jdgordon.info:8080/jonno/rockbox/bootloader.bin">http://jdgordon.info:8080/jonno/rockbox/bootloader.bin
10:48:09linuxstbca6cc8a906e26a314863e0f79c2f59fd bootloader.bin ?
10:48:31JdGordonyep
10:49:12linuxstbhttp://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/e200rpatcher.zip
10:49:55JdGordonthanks
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10:58:43raphillorean: ok, it's a hardware issue... It also doesn't work with the OF..... thanks anyway..
11:00
11:01:26linuxstbJdGordon: BTW, the problem is your commit 14709. In order for the build system to create an output file (based on bootloader/bootloader.bin), you need to set both the output name, and a tool used to create that output file. You've set the tool variable to be "$rootdir/tools/scramble -mi4v3 -model=e20r -type=RBOS" - so it's converting the bootloader.bin to mi4 format. If I was you, I would...
11:01:27linuxstb...just revert that commit.
11:02:58raphiI still got an errormsg with the newest (r15102) while compiling.... http://pastebin.ca/736163
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11:03:28bluebrotherraphi: have you reconfigured (and ran make clean) first?
11:04:01linuxstbraphi: Error 127 from Make means it can't find a program it needs to run. Try "make V=1" to get more output.
11:04:06raphibluebrother: I've deleted my hole rockbox folder and get it from rockbox-xvn again....
11:05:26raphilinuxstb: It seems like m68k-elf-ar is missing... i'll link it to /usr/bin....
11:05:48linuxstbYou should just add the directory that the m68k-elf programs are in to your PATH.
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11:06:11raphilinuxstb: how do i do that?
11:06:28Xenomorphicdoes anyone know if rockbox works with the e250
11:06:33Xenomorphicsansa e250
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11:06:47linuxstbraphi: Add a line such as "export PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/arm-elf/bin" to the .bashrc file in your home directory.
11:07:17linuxstbI meant m68k-bin (obviously change to your setup)
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11:08:47delYsidXenomorphic: Yes, it should.
11:08:52raphilinuxstb: thanks!! It's now compiling
11:10:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:11:59Xenomorphiccool
11:12:04Xenomorphicthanks del
11:12:09Xenomorphicuse e200?
11:12:39 Quit jba (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:12:40bluebrothere200 _series_ includes e250 (and other e2x0 players)
11:13:03bluebrotherthe manual tells you more details.
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11:13:35Xenomorphicah
11:13:37Xenomorphicthanks!
11:13:42*bluebrother notices the manual not holding the individual player versions as other manuals do ...
11:13:50delYsidXenomorphic: yeah, I use a e280
11:14:28Xenomorphicdoes rockbox support standard file formats
11:14:34Xenomorphiclike mpg, avi, etc
11:14:51bluebrotherit only supports mpeg2 for video.
11:14:58Xenomorphicoh
11:14:58bluebrotheravi is only a container.
11:15:03Xenomorphicah
11:15:18bluebrotherand can contain about any video codec.
11:16:00Xenomorphicoh
11:16:04Xenomorphicthanks
11:16:07Xenomorphicwhat about pictures
11:16:13bluebrotherjpeg.
11:16:21ramon8what about the dictionary
11:16:27*bluebrother points to http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
11:16:36bluebrotherdefine "the" dictionary.
11:16:49Xenomorphicthanks!
11:17:01Xenomorphici gotta go, but i appreciate all the help
11:17:04Xenomorphicbest of luck
11:17:16ramon8can it search for words?
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11:17:41*bluebrother gives up
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11:20:06ramon8nm i see that it still in progress......
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11:32:56JdGordonwoot!
11:33:08JdGordonwe have a working e200r installer for windows
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11:42:20LloreanJdGordon: With or without special drivers?
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11:43:21JdGordonwith the libusb drivers
11:43:31JdGordonbut im attaching them ready made so they shuold be idiot proof
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11:45:29barrywardellJdGordon: what are the ultimate plans for e200rpatcher?
11:46:01JdGordonintegrate with rbtutil
11:46:05barrywardellwill it do like sansapatcher and install the bootloader too?
11:46:06JdGordonnot sure what else we want from it
11:46:14JdGordonit could...
11:46:37barrywardellright now, it's still necessary to go into recovery mode and copy over a rockbox bootloader mi4
11:46:43barrywardelland let it do the firmware update
11:47:45JdGordonif we get it to do sansapatcher's job then we could use it for the e200 and the r
11:47:58JdGordonbut that means you have to attach it in manuf mode to do it for both
11:48:11barrywardelli don't think that's a good idea
11:48:20JdGordoni agree
11:48:27barrywardellI like the sansapatcher method right now
11:48:28JdGordonhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200RInstallation
11:49:01JdGordonits probably up to bluebrother and how much he can do with rbutil for it
11:49:05barrywardellJdGordon: I can build a universal binary for OS X if you like
11:49:19JdGordonplease do and attach it to that page
11:49:24*barrywardell finally has a universal libusb
11:49:49barrywardellJdGordon: from svn?
11:49:54JdGordonjust make sure you grab bootloader.bin from the bootloader folder and not from the folder with the Makefile
11:50:03JdGordonyeah, svn works
11:50:25barrywardellit's not 100% reliable, but neither is e200tool
11:50:49barrywardellso sometimes I have to run it a couple of times to get it to work
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12:23:01barrywardell_JdGordon: you just use tool="cp" instead of reverting that commit
12:23:29linuxstbbarrywardell_: What's the point in copying it?
12:24:55barrywardell_not much, I guess. although you could copy it to ../rbutil/e200rpatcher
12:25:27linuxstbThat would seem a bit unexpected
12:25:38barrywardell_yeah, i suppose so
12:26:06barrywardell_linuxstb: btw, I have a universal binary of libusb if you want it
12:26:19linuxstbAre you linking statically with rbutil?
12:27:36barrywardell_yes
12:34:01linuxstbI was thinking it might just be simpler to add libusb to the rbutil source - it's very small once you remove all the autoconf bloat.
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12:37:03barrywardell_linuxstb: there's a binary installer for libusb here: http://www.ellert.se/twain-sane/
12:37:57barrywardell_we could add libusb to the rbutil source, but do we really need to?
12:38:19JdGordonmay as well if we want a "universal" installer...
12:39:16barrywardell_but we can build a universal installer without doing that
12:40:00linuxstbI just have an aversion to external dependencies. But if you're happy with it...
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12:40:49LloreanI think it's probably good to at least try to avoid external dependencies.
12:41:10barrywardell_linuxstb: I won't complain if you do it ;)
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12:41:47barrywardell_although it would be nice to keep the option to upgrade to a newer libusb version that doesn't have the same unreliability
12:41:52bluebrotherI don't see a reason why it should be bad requiring libusb for building. We simply can provide static binaries ...
12:44:58linuxstbJdGordon: Are there any changes to the e200r patcher bootloader.bin to commit, or was the problem simply that you were using the wrong binary?
12:45:15JdGordonno, just the wrong binary
12:45:32*JdGordon feels stupid because of that :p
12:46:07linuxstbOh well, at least it's working now.
12:48:39barrywardell_JdGordon: why do you turn off the wheel backlight in the patcher at the end?
12:48:56JdGordonfor the hell of it ? :p
12:49:15JdGordonthe patcher could do with a clean up
12:50:00linuxstbI don't know if either of you want to test, but it would be interesting to try and replace the original Sansa bootloader (stored in the firmware partition) with the Rockbox bootloader - to try and speed up boot time. i.e. replace the BL...whatever.rom file
12:50:09barrywardell_haha, i see. it would be nice to not have to force a power down by holding the power button
12:50:22barrywardell_linuxstb: I was thinking about doing that
12:50:48*JdGordon doesnt have much faith in e200tool so will pass on that if somone else wants to do it
12:50:53linuxstbGiven that jdgordon's app runs fine in manufacturing mode, it seems Rockbox does enough hardware initialisation without needing the Sansa bootloader.
12:51:09JdGordonwe still need the OF though
12:51:10barrywardell_any idea how I replace the bootloader?
12:51:24linuxstbJdGordon: Hopefully not for long...
12:51:31JdGordonno, hopefully not :)
12:51:35Lloreanlinuxstb: Also possibly a good place to start feeling out for replacing the flash in iPods too?
12:51:40barrywardell_and the OF should still be in place in the hidden partition
12:52:03linuxstbLlorean: I don't think it's comparable - it all depends on the hardware initialisations, which are very target specific.
12:52:54linuxstbbarrywardell_: Maybe the Rockbox bootloader will need to load the Sansa bootloader, which in turn will load the Sansa OF...
12:53:38barrywardell_linuxstb: uugh, possibly
12:54:17linuxstbI'm guessing you need to replace the PPBL image at the very start of the firmware partition. We'll need to work out what the header values are.
12:54:43linuxstbi.e. "0000000: 5050 424c 38fc 0500 0000 0100 0000 0000 PPBL8..........."
12:55:08linuxstbI'm guessing 0x0005fc38 is the length
12:55:10barrywardell_they're just the length
12:55:12barrywardell_and PPBL
12:55:18linuxstbAnd 0x00010000 ?
12:55:56barrywardell_not sure
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12:57:31linuxstbYou could modify tools/scramble to add a "ppbl" format, which adds the 512-byte header to our bootloader, and then just "dd" it to the firmware partition.
12:58:23linuxstbOr maybe better would be to add a new option to sansapatcher...
12:58:36barrywardell_sansapatcher could do it very easily
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13:01:16barrywardell_gtg now. I'll try that later
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13:01:50JdGordonlinuxstb: ok, i changed my mind, if someone can modify sansapatcher ill play guiene pig :p
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13:16:32JdGordonlinuxstb: can you make another windows bin with svn please (just updated)
13:17:14linuxstbSure
13:17:46JdGordonta
13:17:46linuxstbBTW, binaries aren't normally placed in the wiki - they're put on the download server so people know they're safe.
13:18:14JdGordonok, bagder can move them when he comes in :)
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13:21:18linuxstbIt's there, same URL as before.
13:22:41JdGordonshould i link to it on the wiki? or download and upload it?
13:23:25linuxstbJust link it will be fine.
13:24:12JdGordonok done
13:24:32JdGordonbarrywardell: if you read logs, can you remake the osx installer please?
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13:38:59amiconnrasher: around?
13:39:11rasherYup
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13:40:10amiconnCould you point me to the wiki page describing cross-compilation of windows sims?
13:40:17amiconnFor some reason I can't find it...
13:41:56amiconnAh, found it now..
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13:45:06rasherAh, http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UiSimulator#Building_Windows_sim_in_Linux if anyone's reading the logs
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13:46:42rasheramiconn: any idea about the problem with loading .rocks/.codecs larger than 512kb?
13:46:53amiconnno
13:47:26amiconnIt seems like some configurations work, some don't, but I can't see a pattern
13:47:40amiconnDoom is >1MB, and it works here...
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13:49:47Lear_rasher: there's a buffer in plugin.c that's too small.
13:50:08Lear_Depends a bit on how it is loaded (for codecs at least).
13:50:12amiconnLear: The plugin itself is *not* loaded into that buffer...
13:50:20amiconn(on sims)
13:50:22rasherAll this is probably way over my head
13:52:22Lear_Sorry, a buffer in codecs.c. Used by codec_load_file.
13:52:42Lear_It is 512 kB, which isn't enough for aac.
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14:09:44amiconnrasher: Erm, is it normal that such a cross sim build throws *tons* of warnings?
14:10:10amiconnxyz.c: warning: visibility attribute not supported in this configuration; ignored
14:10:13rasherno idea, my build script is very quiet
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14:10:48rasherDidn't notice anything like that the few times I built manually though. Perhaps that was with an older mingw32-gcc though
14:10:57amiconn..and also some about -fPIC being ignored
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14:46:09antgelhi all, i'm out of space on my h340, which i use to listen to oggs and record gigs. the 80gb toshiba hard disk to fit is discontinued. anyone able to recommend alternative hardware that fits my requirement? i was looking at ipod 5g, but seems rockbox is not as good as on iriver e.g. recording gains etc not implemented?
14:49:02 Nick Lear_ is now known as Lear (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
14:49:20marcosourcecreative's players ?
14:49:27 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:49:50linuxstb_marcosource: This is #rockbox...
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14:50:05antgelmarcosource: i know nothing about them. i'll check out the rockbox compatability guide, thank you
14:50:42linuxstb_antgel: Why not keep your h340 for recording, and buy something else for listening? Rockbox doesn't work on any Creative players.
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14:51:15antgellinuxstb_: *sigh* yeah, i could do. i just love the h340/rockbox combo in a totally irrational way for a bit of plastic and metal
14:52:12linuxstb_You don't have to lose it - just keep it (as it's a good recording device with Rockbox), and buy something else with larger capacity just for listening.
14:52:36antgellinuxstb_: is the overall rockbox/ipod user experience way down on rockbox/h340, at present? e.g. when might recording gain control be implemented ;)
14:53:18antgellinuxstb_: then, there's the money issue. these things don't grow on trees, my h340's worth at least #150 on ebay, and i can get an ipod for that from cex.co.uk
14:55:12linuxstb_Gain control will be implemented when someone interested in it does it... So far no-one has. You also need a custom cable to record on the ipods.
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14:57:54antgellinuxstb_: i see. i could do it. :) i'm half joking - i can code but i know SFA about the hardware. custom cable wouldn't faze me
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14:59:33linuxstb_The main issue on the ipod video with Rockbox is battery life - it's a lot less than the Apple firmware. People seem to quote around 8-10 hours mp3 playback IIRC.
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15:00:27antgeli don't care so much about that, and i'm sure it's something that will improve with time. i can charge it every night
15:01:21antgelmaybe i could buy an old broken ipod with duff HD and change the HD
15:01:29antgelthen i could keep the h340 as well
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15:03:08Nico_PGodEater: hi
15:04:46linuxstb_antgel: You can, but not the 80GB disk - it uses a different connector to the H340. See the http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/HardDriveReplacement page
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15:07:21antgellinuxstb_: no, i mean change the HD in the ipod - cheap way to get a large capacity ipod :)
15:08:39n1sif you can find a cheap HD that is
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15:11:10*antgel browses svn looking for the recording code :P
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15:15:09antgelinteresting. i'm going up to the west end to look for a second-hand 5g/80gb :) back much later
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15:18:03antgellinuxstb: btw, any estimate on time for ipod 6g to be usable?
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15:28:40ashesokay
15:28:51linuxstbantgel: It's completely new hardware compared to earlier ipods, has a strongly encrypted firmware, and no-one is working on a port...
15:30:26ashesi installed the EU iriver firmware. i used rbutilqt to install the boot loader. the boot loader works. i have tried multiple times to install rockbox, and the .rockbox directory exists, but rockbox will not boot
15:30:34ashesany suggestions?
15:30:49linuxstbWhat exactly happens? Do you get an error message?
15:31:23ashes'result -4' is the last line during boot
15:32:06linuxstbAnd before that?
15:32:12ashesi dont know if that's an error or not
15:32:59Arathison H10 recordings aren't saved to the specified directory, but in the root dir. I checked the path in the recording conf and the normal conf file
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15:33:29ashesother than 'result -4', the boot loader doesn't appear to give any errors. just battery voltage, model number, etc
15:33:56asheschecksum
15:34:12ashesoo
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15:34:27ashesi'm in 'bootloader usb mode'
15:34:32ashescan i do anything with this?
15:35:14linuxstbashes: I think "-4" means that the rockbox.iriver file inside .rockbox can't be read. You could try checking your h340's disk for errors.
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15:40:26ashesthat's -1
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15:41:00ashesbehavior is the same though
15:41:19ashesby default the bootloader loads, and then turns off the player
15:41:47ashesill try to remove .rockbox and reinstall
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15:42:02linuxstb-1 means it can't find rockbox.iriver at all
15:42:34asheswhat's -4?
15:44:10linuxstbIt means the read() fails - i.e. it exists, but can't be successfully read.
15:45:48asheshmm
15:46:36ashesthe iriver os seems to have a self preservation thingy... it likes to remount it's drive read-only
15:46:55ashesso
15:47:02linuxstbAre you using Linux?
15:47:09ashesi'm having trouble removing .rockbox
15:47:12asheslinuxstb: yes
15:47:18linuxstbLinux will remount a disk readonly if it detects errors in the filesystem.
15:47:26asheshmm
15:47:29ashesfsck?
15:47:44linuxstbYes. Or a reformat if you can.
15:48:04ashesmm
15:49:55ashesiriver os's reformat, or linux's reformat?
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15:51:16linuxstbEither. You can try fsck if you want though - it's up to you.
15:51:55ashesi'm backing it up right now
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15:52:47*ender` yawns
15:52:53ashesi have probably pulled the cable out at least once without unmounting it
15:53:41ashesmounting with the 'sync' option would be a good idea?
15:55:21iambenashes: no
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15:55:52xiadengood morning
15:58:18mirakhello
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16:01:58ashesin my backup, i got a lot of input/output errors for the .rockbox directory
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16:05:54ashesi must have pulled the usb cable out without unmounting
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16:09:02iambenwell thats only a problem if it was still actually writing at the time
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16:13:32ashesiriver boots now
16:13:59ashesdispite rbutilqt doing a segfault after installation
16:15:06ashessegfaults when installing themes
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16:39:46Robin0800rbutilqt when trying to install the boot loader correctly states boot loader already installed but if you select ok to install it
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16:40:57Robin0800the install fails whith a no ipod found error this with an ipod video 5 gen.
16:41:22xiadenhey, just letting you guys know, the rockbox utility autoreads my ipod 5th gen on ubuntu...
16:42:07xiadenRobin0800: wow, coincidence... umm it did everything just fine on mine...
16:43:05xiadenRobin0800: what OS do you have?
16:43:52Robin0800xiaden,don't know why perhaps it can't overwrite it
16:44:48xiadenRobin0800:? what do you mean? like it can't overwrite the firmware partition on your ipod?
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16:48:46xiadenRobin0800:well, the best advice i could give you in this case is to try to uninstall your current bootloader, and then re-install the one you are running now. that *should work.... although i still don't know why it would randommly ignore your ipod... what operating system do you use? windows, mac, or some linux distrubution
16:48:51Robin0800xiaden,dont know what the failure message means but as it has already found the ipod and can read on the info tab I assume the message is wrong
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16:49:43Robin0800xiaden,this is on windows
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16:50:59xiadenRobin0800:ahh. mk, well i don't know much about windows versions of this =P
16:51:12bluebrotherRobin0800: is the Ipod properly detected (using the Autodetection button in the configuration dialog)?
16:51:33bluebrotherand do you have administrator priviledges?
16:53:10xiadenanyways, back to my question: anyone here know what i have to do in order to get my bootloader to list off my options of what i can boot instead of just booting rockbox by defult?
16:53:46bluebrotherxiaden: the Rockbox bootloader will always boot Rockbox by default.
16:54:21bluebrotherwhy do you want to change it? Once you booted into AppleOS you need to reset the Ipod to get back to Rockbox anyway.
16:56:50xiadenI liked the way my ipod was booting with my custom firmware, it would list off the options of what i could boot. like Apple O/S disk mode, iPod Linux, and sleep. unfortunatlly rockbox didn't show up in that list.
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16:57:19xiaden(by my, i mean a downloaded firmware, not homemade.)
16:57:49bluebrotherIPL's Loader2 has a boot menu, but that is not supported here. Still, I don't see a reason for a graphical menu. It will only delay bootup.
16:58:54xiadeneh, i was just wondering if was possible.. it's not that big of an issue.
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17:01:09xiadenthanks tho, gtg
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17:04:46DefineByteWould 'Apple bootloader' sound better than 'Ipod bootloader' in the manual?
17:04:57DefineByteReally not sure
17:05:34animeloebe nicer though
17:06:08animeloeiPod bootloader sounds more like your booting the ipod :P
17:06:25DefineByteyou are
17:06:36animeloec00l
17:06:45animeloeI'll use da b00t and kick da ipod out :)^
17:06:46DefineByteI'm talking about the original bootloader
17:06:59DefineByteas opposed to the one that comes with rockbox
17:07:06animeloethe original loader should probiibly be called the apple bootloader
17:07:51DefineByteprobably, I want a vote :D
17:07:59animeloesince it's "Apple"
17:08:11 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
17:08:23DefineBytebluebrother about?
17:08:30bluebrotheryep.
17:08:59DefineBytehi there :)
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17:09:30DefineByte'Apple bootloader' or 'Ipod bootloader' wrt the original bootloader?
17:09:37DefineBytehave an opinion?
17:09:46 Quit Nico_P (Nick collision from services.)
17:09:50DefineByteor none of the above/
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17:10:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:11:17DefineBytemaybe 'Original bootloader' (probably not)?
17:11:29bluebrotherit's "Ipod" because that sentence is macrofied ;-)
17:11:52animeloehehe
17:11:53DefineByteyeah well x)
17:12:05DefineByteThere are two Ipod bootloaders are there not?
17:12:23animeloeno
17:12:32animeloethe bootloader straps the actual OS
17:13:20DefineBytewell currently the manual referrers to an 'Ipod bootloader' and a 'Rockbox bootloader'.
17:13:21animeloethe apple bootloader AND the rockbox (ipodloader) bootloader both can strap the Apple OS
17:13:34animeloeoh
17:13:36animeloelol
17:13:40animeloeyeah I remember seeing that
17:14:02animeloeI personally didn't like that since the Ipod bootloader is the original APPLE bootstrapper
17:14:17animeloebut the Rockbox bootloader can be extended to boot different OSes
17:14:35DefineBytenow I'm lost xD
17:14:41animeloehehe
17:14:53animeloethe APPLE bootloader only can load the apple OS
17:14:57animeloeright?
17:15:22bluebrotherthe apple bootloader is in flash memory. It loads the main OS from disc.
17:15:23DefineBytewell, maybe with enough jiggery pokery it could load an alternative
17:15:48bluebrotheripodpatcher replaces the main OS to load the Rockbox bootloader first. Which in turn loads Rockbox or AppleOS
17:16:30animeloewait bluebrother doesn't the flash bootloader contain the Mass Storage Device protocol in it? as well as Diag mode?
17:17:07DefineByteafaik
17:18:04linuxstbThe diskmode and diagmode code are separate firmwares, stored in the flash. The bootloader (also in flash) can either load one of those two "firmwares" from flash or the main Apple firmware (from disk) and run it.
17:18:19animeloeokay
17:18:27animeloeit's kinda confusing... having two loaders
17:19:41n1sIMHO the installation chapter of the manual is too technical and has too much unnecessary details
17:19:52DefineByteso, 'Apple bootloader' and 'Rockbox bootloader' then?
17:19:59DefineByteyeah, I think so too.
17:20:16DefineByteespecially with rbutil around
17:20:22n1sit should be enough with 1) install rb bootloader 2) unzip rb 3) yes you can uninstall
17:21:19DefineBytebut, but...wait till I submit my patch before splitting/removing it okay? x)
17:21:19linuxstbn1s: I disagree. The intention (although I agree the current text isn't perfect) is to try to give users enough information to know what's going on, and why they need to install both a bootloader and Rockbox, and why they will only need to update the bootloader occasionally.
17:22:17bluebrotherwell, the text could be split up a bit. Maybe mark some parts as "technical details" to indicate it's not necessary to read this for usage?
17:22:30n1sI don't see why the users need to understand that, most of them won't care anyway and the rest could probably find it if we put that info somewhere else
17:22:47DefineBytelike 'advanced topics'
17:23:35n1s"More details about the bootloader and booting sequence can be found in chapter foo, page bar"
17:24:23DefineBytewhat comes after foo and bar? I'm sure there's something (sorry)
17:24:43linuxstbI think the process could be explained without being technical. I think giving users an understanding of how their ipod works is a good thing...
17:25:41n1sDefineByte: we would have to lace it in some chapter for example the "advanced topics" on some page
17:26:19n1ss/lace/place
17:26:57DefineByteI'm not sure it sits well with some of the other stuff in advanced topics though
17:27:37DefineByteit would be better if it didn't turn into a 'catch all'
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17:29:40DefineByteeverything in there isn't currently useful, while info on how rockbox actually works...isn't (from a user's perspective)
17:29:52DefineByte-isn't + is
17:30:17DefineBytethe first one that is x)
17:32:49DefineByteis playerman{} supposed to return the manufacturer or what?
17:33:16bluebrotheryep. See manual/platform/*.tex
17:33:32DefineByteyeah but... it doesn't :)
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17:33:59DefineBytei.e. Ipod instead of Apple
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17:35:20DefineByteEverything would need a big sort out to fix that though
17:35:26bluebrotherhmpf. Mixed it up :(
17:35:31bluebrotherindeed.
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17:37:26DefineByteon a completely different topic, could rbutil sync the clock on a player?
17:37:55bluebrotherno, not easily.
17:37:57Crash91theres no bubbles image for 176x220x16....which one doe sit use?
17:37:59n1sDefineByte: not unless we invent and use our own usb protocol
17:38:15n1salso only possible on some players
17:38:26DefineByteshame
17:38:41n1show often do you need to set that anyway?
17:38:46bluebrotherwell, one could invent some set-clock-based-on-sync-timestamp. That won't be exact though.
17:38:58bluebrotherbut the RTC is usually quite accurate.
17:39:19DefineBytewould be nice though :'(
17:40:25n1sCrash91: I would guess on the 220x176 one, the bubbles are circular after all
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17:40:55Crash91n1s: k
17:41:14DefineBytewhat do all these 'Overfull \hbox' errors mean when I build the manual?
17:41:41bluebrotheran overful hbox appears when a box (the smallest element for TeX) is too wide to fit in the current line
17:42:03DefineByteI'm seeing them and underfull
17:42:10DefineByteI guess it doesn't matter/
17:42:26bluebrotherunless the value printed along is great it's not really an issue. If the value becomes too big you'll notice in the output
17:42:50bluebrother(you will notice like 5pt if you look really close only)
17:43:10DefineBytegood to konw. thanks :)
17:44:22DefineByteLaTeX Warning: Reference `label:WorkingWithPlaylists' on page 41 undefined on i
17:44:22DefineBytenput line 165.
17:44:29DefineBytedoes that matter either?
17:44:38bluebrotherI can recommend "The TeX book" if you want to get known to TeX' internal details
17:44:42DefineBytenot/
17:45:49bluebrotherwell, it indicated that you referenced a label that isn't given. Usually this results from a typo (or a forgotten label ;-)
17:46:12DefineBytehey, I haven't gone near that section! :D
17:48:06bluebrotherI hope you're not planning to submit a huge patch in the end but a bunch of small ones ;-)
17:48:39DefineByteerm, yeah, yeah, that's right.... :shifty:
17:49:01bluebrother;-)
17:49:14DefineBytetheire'd be about fifty patches then >.<
17:49:34DefineBytethere'd
17:50:46bluebrotherwell, still easier to review and submit than one huge blob ;-)
17:51:02DefineByteyeah, I see the point. gah
17:52:28DefineBytehow should I split it up then? most of it is just grammar/spelling
17:52:42DefineByteper sub-section?
17:53:12bluebrotherwell, you could make one patch for grammar and spelling per chapter and all other changes to other patches
17:53:40DefineByteokay. I'll be back in a few weeks x)
17:53:49bluebrotherbut it's up to you −− just keep in mind that someone has to review it
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17:58:42animeloe_iTouch/close
17:58:47animeloeheh
17:58:51Crash91quit?
17:59:12animeloetrying to leave a room with my itouch
17:59:27animeloeit's using colloquy
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17:59:27animeloeI'm not too happy with it though
18:00
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18:00:07barrywardellI just successfully replaced the bootloader on my sansa with the rockbox bootloader :)
18:00:19bluebrothernice.
18:00:24animeloeI really love my itouch atm
18:00:26barrywardellit even boots the OF ok!
18:00:30animeloeafter jailbreak it's so cool
18:00:40animeloenow I want to put an alternate OS on it :)
18:00:43animeloemaybe linux
18:00:55Crash91jailbreak?
18:00:59animeloeyeah
18:01:04Crash91its an OS?
18:01:24animeloethe jailbreak is required to alter the stock firmware on the itouch
18:01:32Crash91oh
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18:03:19SoapLet's keep this on topic - #Rockbox. This is not the #iPodTouch, this is not #BashIpod, this is not #Freenode-Social...
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18:03:29animeloelol
18:03:41animeloeactually I was interested in weither or not rockbox COULD be put on the itouch
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18:05:04n1sanimeloe: it most probably is _possible_ to do it
18:05:17animeloeespceially now that it's jailbroke
18:05:33animeloeonly problem is how to get it to have mass storage
18:08:51Soap*only* problem? How about you dig up some documentation for the hardware inside so drivers can be written for the chips? Jailbreak allows programs to be run on the existing operating system, it does not allow new operating systems to be run on the (unknown) hardware.
18:09:25animeloeyeah
18:09:40animeloebut now it's possible to dig inside
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18:13:03webguest77I havnt installed rockbox yet... have a question. will bookmarks still work on removable media on my sandisk e280?
18:14:20barrywardellhmmm. for some reason the lcd only comes on once the main rockbox firmware/of starts
18:15:38bluebrotherwebguest77: yes.
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18:23:16barrywardellahh, it was just the backlight off
18:25:34linuxstbbarrywardell: Nice...
18:25:45linuxstbbarrywardell: Does it speed up boot-time noticably?
18:26:34barrywardellyeah, it's about 5-6 seconds until I'm in rockbox now
18:26:50linuxstbWhat was it before?
18:27:02barrywardellI can't remember, maybe twice that?
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18:27:23linuxstbThat still seems quite slow though - I wonder where the delay is...
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18:27:48linuxstbDo you know how long it takes before the Rockbox bootloader is executing?
18:28:44barrywardellit's a while before the lcd lights up
18:29:04linuxstbAnd that happens at the start of the RB bootloader?
18:29:13barrywardellI have verbose mode on
18:29:21barrywardellI get a quick white flash
18:29:24barrywardellthen the text
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18:34:52saratogaregarding the touch, you probably would want to use rockbox-as-an-app
18:35:07saratogait runs on some linux based moble phone, so someone could port it
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18:44:09peturmarkun: you're right in front on that panoramic pic of yuval ;)
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18:46:08peturfyi, this is the panoramic pic, it is from the gsoc mentor summit: petur/gsoc_summit_pano.html">http://users.telenet.be/petur/gsoc_summit_pano.html
18:46:51peturspot the rockbox shirts ;)
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18:49:12*barrywardell just had to use e200tool to recover his sansa!
18:49:54saratogabarrywardell: whats this about using a different bootloader on the sansa?
18:50:11barrywardellI replaced the bootloader with the rockbox one
18:50:42barrywardellso we don't need the sansa bootloader at all any more
18:50:58saratogais the sansa bootloader the one that shows their logo?
18:51:10barrywardellyeah, the one that starts before the rockbox one normally
18:51:47linuxstbIs the white flash you mentioned caused by the Rockbox bootloader?
18:52:03 Quit Wiwie (Client Quit)
18:52:12barrywardelli'm not sure
18:52:25barrywardellI'm investigating now
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18:57:56 Join AceNik_ [0] (n=AceNik@117.98.77.120)
18:58:39AceNik_guys why is it that we can compile builds for mrobe but they are not available in the daily build section
19:00
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19:05:17AceNik_name AceNik
19:05:25AceNik_cls name Acenik
19:05:28AceNik_help
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19:08:17AceNik_anybody there
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19:10:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:16:22Nico_Ppetur: I can't view thate panoramam
19:17:13bluebrotherNico_P: you need flash ... works quite nice here ;-)
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19:17:54Nico_Pbluebrother: I have flash, but it seems to choose java and when I want to change to flash nothing happens
19:18:17bluebrotherstrange ... I can't choose java.
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19:26:08Nico_Pwith konqueror the page tells me "please activate javascript" although I have it enabled
19:27:10n1shappened to me too but then the applet loaded automatically although i took a while
19:27:32n1sbut I don't have flash
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19:37:03peturthe full screen pano runs in a quicktime applet here
19:40:24peturah somebody posted a normal jpg version: http://www.photopla.net/071006google/spiv1536/071006google06.jpg
19:41:57Nico_Pnow that's much better :)
19:42:12Nico_Pwe have scoreche on the left and markun on the right ?
19:42:15peturwell... no. It's distorted...
19:42:27Nico_Psure but at least I can view it :)
19:43:08peturI think the left-to-right order is Karl, scorche, markun
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19:44:19Nico_Pscorche and markun seem to be the only ones with shirts from their "organisation"
19:44:34peturyes
19:44:44Nico_Pah no I see some KDE shirts too
19:44:45peturI think Karl doesn't have one
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19:55:05superkaybeei've installed manually on a sansa e260 and i'm at the point where i need to unplug usb & reboot
19:55:15superkaybeebut the player still says 'writing' −− is it safe to unplug now?
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19:56:17krazykitsuperkaybee, as long as you've ejected it or "safely removed hardware"
19:56:36superkaybeethanks, i'll keep going from here
19:56:57markunhi guys
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19:57:25toffe82markun: back home ?
19:57:38markunyes, just arrived
19:58:32markungood to be back in my old timezone :)
19:58:35webguest40i just installed rockbox on my e200r and i love it. But i was wondering if there is anyway to make the menu screen different. Is there a way to make it do the wheel-like scrolling like on the normal firmware instead of having it listed.
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20:01:13Soapwebguest40, that would involve a major reworking of the interface, and would need to be coded by someone who really really wants it.
20:02:26webguest40oh, i see. It doesn't matter, it's fine the way it is
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20:10:02markunwhat a stupid philosophy: "While Firefox has had a persistent reputation of being a "fatter" (i.e., more resource-intensive) browser than rivals like Opera, Schroepfer said that mobile hardware is finally catching up with the software."
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20:11:26*GodEater remembers when firefox was first started, the idea was it would be leaner than mozilla
20:11:56crashdphoenix aka firebird
20:12:00crashdthen they changed their mission statement
20:12:01crashdiirc
20:12:26animeloelol
20:12:29GodEateryeah, and now they're doing seamonkey - the mission statement of which is "be fatter than firefox"
20:12:34crashdhehe
20:12:35Soaptopic?
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20:12:48GodEatermarkun's fault :)
20:12:57animeloeheh
20:12:59crashdbeing on topic is overrated anyways
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20:21:20Nico_PGodEater: hi
20:21:31GodEaterhell
20:21:33GodEater+o
20:22:10Nico_Phave you given the mob code some more testing ?
20:22:19GodEaternot today sorry
20:22:23Nico_Pok
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20:23:39GodEaterwill do tomorrow though
20:23:43GodEaterprobably all day :)
20:24:20Nico_Pcool
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20:25:33Nico_PI'm working on not releasing track handles on forward skip, so that it's possible to skip backwards without needind to rebuffer
20:25:46GodEateroooh - neat
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20:30:40Nico_Pthe basic thing was very easy and it's already nice, but there are still some problems
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20:49:52scorcheNico_P: there were quite a few others with shirts, actually
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20:55:12scorcheugh..i really wish he told us he was taking that picture so we actually could look at the camera..
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21:02:27*amiconn squeezed ~7% performance out of the H300 lcd_yuv_blit() :-)
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21:04:32*Tanuva congratulates amiconn
21:06:29n1samiconn: nice ;) did you see the yuv_blit optimization patch for pp targets in the tracker?
21:06:57amiconnPP needs other optimisations first
21:08:20amiconnjhMikeS' asm implementation can be ported to the H10s, but needs modification for ipod color and video
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21:08:57amiconnBut of course it should use the block transfer bridge (on targets where that applies)
21:09:12n1sok, just hoping you don't do double work
21:09:30amiconnI'll check that patch before I'll touch PP yuv blit
21:10:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:13:28amiconnn1s: That patch will be superseded by my idea. I'll go asm of course
21:14:19n1sgreat, asm's nice as long as I don't have to understand it :-)
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21:14:44amiconnThe PP targets are the only ones still using C for yuv blitting
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21:15:03scorchepetur: so where did you get that from?
21:15:06amiconn(except Sansa e200 and c200, the latter adapted by myself)
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21:15:20peturscorche: mentor mailing list
21:15:34scorcheah..
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21:25:18jhMikeSamiconn: what's so special about the ipods? can't do the double-line method?
21:25:46amiconnThe colour can have one of 2 lcd controllers, type 0 or type 1
21:26:06amiconnThe type 1 controller could do the double line method, as we know it
21:26:17amiconnBut the type 0 controller is unknown
21:26:25jhMikeShmm
21:26:50amiconnIn order to do the double-line method with non-memory-mapped lcds, we must be able to switch the update direction
21:27:00amiconn(vertical instead of horizontal)
21:27:14amiconn...and that requires a controller datasheet
21:27:21jhMikeSobviously no problem with renesas
21:27:26amiconnyup
21:27:39amiconnNot with Tomato TL1771 either (small H10)
21:27:57amiconn...or with Samsung S6B33B2 (c200)
21:28:35amiconnIn fact the double-line method could be used on nano. Currently nano and color share the same driver, but nanos are always type 1
21:29:22amiconnThe color (and also the video) will require strict horizontal order, i.e. buffering the chroma data for the second line
21:29:38 Quit linuxstb__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:30:07 Quit n17ikh|Lappy ()
21:30:18jhMikeSone thing I'm wondering is if I should simply forbid killing arbitrary threads outside some kind of debugging build. I have enough code to make it at least crash-free but no amount of cleanup code can ever make it safe. This code is somewhat large and useless for normal programs.
21:30:23amiconnBtw, type 1 is the familiat HD66789R
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21:31:50jhMikeSSeems odd they'd need the HR66789R for a non-DMA type LCD when other chips would suffice.
21:32:00AceNik_guys does the mrobe port have a build yet ?
21:32:04amiconn?
21:32:14amiconnThe 66789R is also used in the H300
21:32:51amiconnI wonder whether type 0 is the built-in controller (if there is in fact one)
21:32:51linuxstbAceNik_: The normal situation is that new ports have downloadable builds when they are considered useful to non-developers.
21:33:30AceNik_linuxstb: so you mean to say i can compile the build myself
21:33:37jhMikeSexactly, but the 66789R has special stuff for memmapped frames. the big H10 could've used the x5's chip. Come to think of it, could the DMA-type controller be present and useable on H10?
21:33:44linuxstbAceNik_: If it works, I don't know the status of the port.
21:34:01amiconnI don't know...
21:34:03linuxstbAceNik_: But the code is in SVN.
21:34:17AceNik_linuxstb: ok, thanks, how do i changem y name in this irc
21:34:31linuxstbAceNik_: Type "/nick newnick"
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21:35:53AceNiklinuxstb: the code is in svn, but there arent any builds, under the current build section
21:36:02 Quit barrywardell ()
21:36:24linuxstbAceNik: Correct.
21:37:45amiconnlinuxstb: Do you think splitting the color & nano lcd driver would be a good idea?
21:38:08amiconnIt would mean quite some duplication, but would allow simplifications and optimisations for nano
21:38:38amiconnI also wonder whether we'll find a tester with a type 0 color ...
21:40:18linuxstbamiconn: I suppose it wouldn't be too bad - lcd-color_nano.c isn't that big...
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21:40:47linuxstbIt would probably get quite messy with even more #ifdefs...
21:41:00amiconnThe nano lcd hookup is in fact *very* similar to the h10
21:41:10amiconn...as well as the type 1 color
21:41:42AvejhMikeS: I made a nano head build with 75MHz cpu max, appears to work ok so far, your skip patch not applied
21:41:54Tanuvaamiconn: what makes the "type 0" a special color?
21:42:10*amiconn thinks it might even be possible to unify the small H10, big H10 and Nano lcd drivers
21:42:18linuxstbamiconn: I think all ipods sold as "Photo" are type 0. Then Apple changed the name of that ipod to "Color", and shortly afterwards changed the LCD controller. So Colors can be either.
21:42:35 Quit ilgufo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:42:48linuxstbSo we probably just need to advertise for someone with a Photo.
21:42:59linuxstb(IIUC)
21:43:28*amiconn should try harder to find the lcd controller datasheet for type 0, based on the known commands
21:43:55TanuvaOn the package of my pod it says "photo", may that be a hint?
21:44:04amiconnIt *might* be impossible - if it actually is the built-in controller of the PP5020
21:44:23amiconnTanuva: I guess you have rockbox running on it?
21:44:38linuxstbTanuva: Can you go into the debug menu, and the "View H/W info" screen? What does the lcd_type display?
21:44:39Tanuvaamiconn: yes
21:44:41amiconnIf so, you can check the lcd controller type in the debug menu
21:44:42n1slinuxstb: maybe the fund can buy one?
21:44:47Tanuvaone moment...
21:46:15Tanuvalinuxstb: amiconn: "LCD type" is 0
21:46:16jhMikeSAve: it's obviously somethings unrelated to clock skips
21:46:44amiconnTanuva: Thanks for checking, and nice to know someone around with a type 0 colro :)
21:46:49amiconn*color
21:46:57Tanuva:)
21:47:03jhMikeSthe H10 problem was in no way temp dependent but simply COP use+scaling dependent and would happen immediately
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21:50:36amiconnI'm almost sure the nano has an ata timing problem
21:51:32n1sDo you know how to change that?
21:51:34jhMikeSPP ATA setup doesn't seem very thorough
21:52:06amiconnPP has several ata timing registers we don't touch yet, 'cause we don't know how
21:52:54n1samiconn, jhMikeS: did you guys see that Soap offered to send one of you an affected nano?
21:53:06n1sand pay all the shipping etc
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21:54:52Buscheldo we know any details about the ipod 5th gen lcd controller?
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22:00:23jhMikeSn1s: I'm aware, yes. I could _try_ to straighten it out.
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22:03:58jhMikeSthis mutex probing needs removal from ata.c otherwise it requires an actual spinlock test (_w_tmo or try_lock) function to be implemented.
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22:14:58*jhMikeS sees ata_mmc.c also peeks at .locked directly :\
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22:20:53zajacattackhey, does e200rpatcher also install the rockbox BL?
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22:29:12linuxstbzajacattack: No. At least not yet.
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22:33:09zajacattacklinuxstb: so there's no point in re-patching the BL if you did it the old way?
22:33:25linuxstbzajacattack: No.
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22:40:43amiconnjhMikeS: What's the problem in ata_mmc.c?
22:41:36amiconnata code is never called from isr context, and the Ondio is single core
22:44:57jhMikeSamiconn: I make no promises as to the meaning of kernel objects' members' values and they vary with implementation.
22:45:59 Quit barrywardell_ ()
22:46:22jhMikeSbottom line is that I don't want work in the kernel to upset other things if things change. better to use a public interface with defined behavior
22:46:48amiconnhmm...
22:47:06amiconnThing is that Ondio works 100% stable, so why introduce unnecessary complexity?
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22:54:45jhMikeSso that kernel objects are treated as opaque data by other code and things behave consistently no matter how they're implemented
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22:58:11ZagorjhMikeS: that's a slippery slope imho
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22:59:06jhMikeSwhy?
22:59:20zajacattackso, just curious here, what needed to be fixed for e200rpatcher?
23:00
23:00:27Zagor(re)writing code so it "can be used without knowing how it's implemented" can easily escalate into bloat and/or "frameworkism"
23:01:21Zagor(frameworkism: writing code for hypothetical uses, rather than actual needs)
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23:02:22jhMikeSno frameworkism. incosistencies have already caused me enough trouble. if anything needs well defined behavior it's something all code in rockbox relies on to work correctly.
23:02:28n1szajacattack: apparently the binary it uploaded to the player was of the wrong format
23:03:22ZagorjhMikeS: I'm not opposing this particular change (I don't even know the details of it). I just reflected on the general philosophy of "code that can be used without being understood"
23:04:39zajacattackn1s: ok, so is there work on modifying it so that it writes the patched BL, AND the rockbox BL (along with moving the OF to an unused part of the hidden partiton)?
23:04:54jhMikeSit's not that really. it more of the philosophy of "code that behaves as your use of it expected"
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23:05:43n1szajacattack: I don't know but I imagine it will get merged with sansapatcher in one way or another
23:05:53zajacattackok
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23:12:09jhMikeSFor example, whether or not you have semaphores/queue_send is one thing. Whether or not mutexes allow reentry by the owning thread is quite another.
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23:16:26linuxstbn1s: e200rpatcher requires libusb to be installed, and sansapatcher doesn't. So it may be easier to keep them separate.
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23:16:46n1slinuxstb: aha
23:17:09linuxstbBut I assume rbutil will incorporate e200rpatcher at some point, so it doesn't really matter.
23:17:22ZagorjhMikeS: an unrelated thing: is there a reason why UNCACHED_ADDR uses + instead of | ?
23:18:15jhMikeSZagor: hmmm...no. is there a reason one should be prefered?
23:19:10Zagorwith + I'd worry about accidentally doing it twice and getting mangled pointers
23:19:39jhMikeSyeah, good point (er) :)
23:20:10Zagor:)
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23:24:29jhMikeSuse of that memory region does need alot of care anyway or a core can clobber its own cached data in the same manner CPU/COP can to each other
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23:25:11Zagoryeah
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23:41:55Mouser_XI have a request. I figure the worst I'll get is a "no." As such, I don't think it hurts to ask.
23:42:14Mouser_XWould someone be willing to make a Rockbox build with 7331 and 5241 for me?
23:42:25Mouser_XBecause they alter some of the same files, the build fails.
23:43:23Mouser_X(I don't know enough about programming to fix the problem on my own.)
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23:46:09n1sMouser_X: those two add codecs which means mostly new files and a few added lines here and there, should be dead simple fo fix any failed hunks
23:46:52Mouser_XI would expect so. However, I have no idea where to start, or what I'd need to do.
23:47:18n1sdo you get messages about failed hunks when patching?
23:47:51Mouser_X(If I add 5241 first, then 7331, there's lots of problems. If I add 7331 first, followed by 5241, there's only 12 lines of problems. I figure this means I could "fix" 5241 easier than "fixing" 7331.)
23:48:07Mouser_XNo, both say they patched successfully.
23:48:23n1sso what is the problem?
23:48:40Mouser_XIt doesn't build.
23:48:54n1swell, a bit more info would be useful...
23:48:59Mouser_XThe build fails. They both say they patch successfully, but when building it, it fails.
23:49:22n1syes, but fails _where_ and does it display any errors?
23:50:09Mouser_XYes, there are errors. It fails when trying to build the MOD (5241) codec (if I do GBS [7331] first).
23:50:17bluebrotherhave you ran a make clean first? Might help
23:50:56Mouser_XOne of the errors I remember is that it says something like "expected VORBIS <can't remember> found <something> instead"
23:51:15Mouser_X^ There's a few of those.
23:52:05n1sfirst do a make clean as bluebrother suggested then if it still fails post the whole build log to pastebin
23:52:35Mouser_XMake clean? That depends. I've done it a few different ways. I've started with a freshly downloaded/checked out SVN before.
23:52:47Mouser_XWhere can I find the build log?
23:53:00bluebrotheron the console ...
23:53:13n1sI mean the messages printed when it builds
23:53:37Mouser_XHmmm. I was hoping it output it somewhere.
23:53:46Mouser_X(I'm using cygwin.)
23:53:55n1syou can of course pipe it to a file...
23:54:03n1slike make &> file.txt
23:54:29Mouser_XAh.
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23:54:34Mouser_XI'll try that.
23:54:45Mouser_X(It'll take awhile. I'm on a slow machine)
23:56:39Mouser_XI know I've asked this before, but I keep forgetting. How do I delete a directory and its subdirectories, with a "yes to all" feature/command?
23:56:46Mouser_X(In cygwin of course)
23:56:53bluebrotherrm -rf <folder>
23:56:58Mouser_XThanks.

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