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#rockbox log for 2007-11-06

00:00:16 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
00:00:17 Join japc [0] (n=japc@bl7-240-154.dsl.telepac.pt)
00:06:58pixelmaroolku: did you read the logs btw.?
00:07:14 Join webguest40 [0] (i=81ab3151@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-8d658a4f2fb75c8f)
00:07:28Bagderhttp://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2007/11/06/rockbox-downloads-oct-2007/
00:08:01webguest40Is Rockbox supported on the 80/160 GB iPod "classic", anyone know?
00:08:07japcwebguest40: not
00:08:30webguest40What about 5.5 gen ipod video?
00:08:43Soapwebguest40, it is not - and will not be for a long time. It is completely different hardware than the previous iPod video, and Apple has gone to great lengths to lock the hardware down.
00:08:46Bagderwebguest40: the supported models are listed on the web site's front page
00:08:51Bagder5.5 gen is supported
00:08:59Soapthe 5.5 gen iPod video is a fully operational battle station.
00:09:05webguest40:)
00:09:22 Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@141.211.233.81)
00:09:36webguest40How bad is the default firmware on the ipod classics?
00:10:00SoapHow bad is broccoli?
00:10:04japclol!
00:10:11BagderI would expect most apple fan boys to tell you its amazing
00:10:13webguest40True, I see your point.
00:10:16Soapsome people love it - some people hate it.
00:10:20webguest40Yeah.
00:10:51scorche|wSoap: actually, with a lot of butter on it (enough to negate any nutritional gains from being a veggie), broccoli is quite good
00:11:04webguest40Woah.
00:11:09webguest40Salt maybe, but butter?
00:11:25krazykitscorche|w, so to make the ipod classic better, w have to put a lot of butter on?
00:11:29Soapand salt
00:11:33webguest40:)
00:11:47webguest40When you say 5.5 is supported, also the 80 GB?
00:11:50scorche|wkrazykit: juices of...actually...this is more in line of the current -community chat >_>
00:11:50Soap(and people say they never get a straight answer in here)
00:11:52krazykitrockbox is the salt and butter for DAPs
00:12:09 Quit n1s ()
00:12:25midgeywebguest40: yes, the 80GB is supported
00:12:25webguest40Because I remember a time when the 30 GB video was supported, but the 80 was not.
00:12:30webguest40Ok.
00:12:42Bagderthere was also a time when no ipod was supported ;-)
00:12:45webguest40:)
00:12:51midgeyah, good times
00:12:58webguest40Is anyone even trying the classic?
00:13:07scorche|wmidgey: they were peaceful :)
00:13:11Bagdernow, portalplayer has 83% of our downloads
00:13:13scorche|wwebguest40: nope
00:13:21JdGordonhow can anything be classic when the origional is only 6 years old??
00:13:27*midgey bought his first portalplayer target today
00:13:36webguest40Because the "touch" is out.
00:13:37pixelmamaybe some of the former zune-linux guys... ;)
00:13:47scorche|wmidgey: i think a good number of us bought a sansa today...
00:13:48webguest40And not touch is now "classic"
00:14:08midgeyscorche|w: indeed, great deal
00:14:16webguest40It's a marketing trick to make people pay a lot for getting 8 GB instead of 80
00:14:26krazykitwebguest40, well, now you're getting offtopic...
00:14:39webguest40Ok.
00:14:51webguest40What's a good 60 GB+ mp3 player? :)
00:14:52BagderI'm very curious on the View
00:14:56 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:15:08*JdGordon too
00:15:10 Quit MajorC ()
00:15:12JdGordonit looks sweet
00:15:19krazykitwebguest40, gigabeat f/x 60, and there's a few on the BuyersGuide wiki page
00:15:35webguest40Alright, thanks, I'll look into it.
00:16:27SMB-MacManbye guys
00:16:50 Quit SMB-MacMan ()
00:18:37 Quit Sedgewick (Connection timed out)
00:19:00 Quit Guile` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:21:53amiconnstevenm: SDRAM is 16 bits wide on both PP and coldfire targets. Only IRAM is 32 bits wide
00:22:22stevenmamiconn, aah ok, thanks
00:22:42amiconnBut even then it's usually better to read 32 bit values if unstuffing isn't too difficult
00:23:40amiconnOn coldfire, one obvious reason is burst mode - reading one 32 bit value from sdram is faster than reading2 16 bit values
00:24:11stevenmamiconn, so we'd still get a little bit of speedup?
00:24:23 Part pixelma
00:24:45stevenmamiconn, does the coldfire have some sort of sdram cache?
00:24:48amiconnAnd if you take this further and switch to asm, using 32 bit allows multiple-register-reads which help reducing latencies especially on arm
00:26:15amiconnColdfire (well, those built into our coldfire targets) has an instruction cache only. Data is uncached
00:26:22 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
00:27:06amiconnHence it is essential to put often used data structures into iram for speed on those
00:28:01amiconnThe PP targets have a unified cache (instructions and data), but keep in mind that the PP5002 has a broken cache that only reaches half the speed of what it should, so iram is important for code *and* data on PP5002
00:30:53 Quit roolku ()
00:31:41stevenmamiconn, Hmmm.. We are pulling in some samples for every voice.. maybe we can somehow cache those after reading them in burst mode.. but problem is that they don't occur in continuous space
00:36:30amiconnlostlogic: Did you commit the LOGF enable in buffering.c on purpose?
00:37:28Nico_Pamiconn: I doubt it
00:37:32*Nico_P didn't even notice
00:43:13 Join RaRe` [0] (n=Laffin_B@202-89-187-101.static.dsl.amnet.net.au)
00:51:31amiconnargh
00:51:47amiconnOne of the recent changes broke the mod codec - doesn't compile
00:55:44amiconnAH, a line needs to be removed from it...
00:56:53 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@89-125-27-10.dhcp-ripwave.irishbroadband.ie)
00:57:23webguest40Anyone know if the 80 GB 2nd gen Zune is any good?
00:58:05Lloreanwebguest40: Please respect the channel guidelines.
00:58:23 Quit ender` (" PCMCIA: People Can't Memorize Computer Industry Acronyms")
00:58:29webguest40Ah, y, sorry.
00:58:38 Part webguest40
00:59:23 Quit RaRe (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:59:50 Join RaRe [0] (n=Laffin_B@202-89-187-101.static.dsl.amnet.net.au)
01:00
01:01:36 Quit qweru ("moo")
01:01:53 Quit davidfg4 (Remote closed the connection)
01:02:09 Quit darkless ("Leaving")
01:03:40*jhMikeS finally has an x5 back in running order with a new OEM 1100mAh battery :)
01:05:32amiconnah
01:05:38 Quit RaRe` (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:05:43amiconnAlready tried a fresh rockbox on it?
01:05:45 Join darkapostrophe [0] (n=darkapos@217-50-177.231210.adsl.tele2.no)
01:06:12*amiconn is curious whether the joystick jumpiness is fixed once and for all
01:06:15jhMikeSfrom yesterday...some problem?
01:06:18 Quit criznach (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:06:30jhMikeSthe keys seem good
01:06:44 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
01:06:47 Part ddalton
01:07:24amiconnOkay, so it was that incorrect i2c timing
01:07:48 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
01:07:53amiconnThe current driver still has one case where it would produce wrong timing - when sending a repeated start condition
01:07:53jhMikeSIt was jumping up by an item occasionally when pressing down before
01:08:09amiconnBut we don't use repeated start conditions anywhere afaik
01:08:46 Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:10:18jhMikeSOne problem now is that starting while in the cradle can cause a pending ONKEY1S since turnon while charging has a longer delay. Rockbox will then shut down...so I guess the timer needs resetting initially.
01:12:20amiconnbarrywardell: The hdd power control for small h10 is correct
01:13:12barrywardellthat's good to know
01:14:13barrywardellalthough from reports it sounds like the small h10 has much worse battery life than the big one. maybe it's just a lower powered battery
01:14:49jhMikeSIs H10 still that bad? I thought things improved a good bit.
01:15:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:15:40amiconnSmall h10 is still bad
01:16:10jhMikeSI thought your last battery checks gave a few more hours
01:16:18amiconnI think it's one of the worst atm, together with mini 1st gen
01:16:26amiconnNot on H10
01:16:31amiconnI get around 3 hours
01:16:43jhMikeSiirc you bench at almost 6 last time
01:16:53lostlogicamiconn: no, I iddn't
01:17:14 Join mrRabbit [0] (n=monsterr@m135e36d0.tmodns.net)
01:17:24amiconnOr was it 5...still significantly less than what the OF promises (never tried that)
01:17:27lostlogicthanks Nico_P
01:17:30mrRabbithey guys, is ipod 160gb compatible with RockBox?
01:17:45lostlogicany new bugs while I've been pretending to work?
01:18:47jhMikeScheck the traps? they hide from the light.
01:18:49amiconnSmall H10 and mini 1st gen are the worst because (1) PP5020 needs more power than PP5022+, so the missing module disabling hurts more and (2) they see practically no savings from hdd poweroff because microdrives seem to auto-sleep like cf cards
01:19:13peturmrRabbit: no (please see www.rockbox.org)
01:19:14 Quit Dark_Apostrophe (Connection timed out)
01:19:14 Nick darkapostrophe is now known as Dark_Apostrophe (n=darkapos@217-50-177.231210.adsl.tele2.no)
01:19:32lostlogicjhMikeS: :)
01:19:35mrRabbitpetur: I'm on there, trying to find the info
01:20:03peturmrRabbit: try the front page, top part of it...
01:20:05 Join MarcGuay [0] (i=d8ef5642@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-741ba08e99f7f9e4)
01:20:16mrRabbitdarn, I bought it already :(
01:20:39mrRabbitcuz they call it "classic" I thought they just increased HD size and improved firmware
01:21:28 Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-71-125-77-210.nwrknj.east.verizon.net)
01:21:46mrRabbitso will it work eventually?
01:22:20peturno one is working on it
01:22:55petur+ they encrypted the firmware
01:23:05Nico_Plostlogic: maybe we need a wiki page to summarize which bugs have been fixed, which remain and which tasks are planned next
01:23:10mrRabbitomg really?!!!!
01:23:24mrRabbitthat's so unfair
01:23:32mrRabbitthey just did it against RockBox?
01:23:33Nico_PmrRabbit: go tell that to Apple
01:23:40MarcGuayMay I have Wiki write permission please?
01:23:41amiconnThe so called 'classic' is an all-new target which has nothing in common with the earlier ipods than the name 'ipod'
01:23:52mrRabbitI mean there're no other firmware besides Rockbox & apple
01:24:05Nico_PmrRabbit: there's ipodlinux
01:24:46jhMikeSdon't imply that that one works on classic :D
01:25:12amiconnNah, it doesn't even work like it could on an ooold 1st gen ;)
01:25:20peturMarcGuay: done
01:25:35amiconn(that is, it draws more battery power and runs slower than it could, unlike rockbox) :)
01:25:41jhMikeSamiconn: does ipl even bother check out what's known from RB re?
01:26:15Nico_Plostlogic: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SoftwareCodecPlayback could be the place... It could also do with a bit of updating
01:26:17amiconnipl kernel developments seems to have stopped quite some time ago
01:26:21 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
01:26:26Nico_PI might start the work tomorrow
01:26:32mrRabbitI mean some ppl like the ipod's native OS, but why not make it available for others, it just increases sales
01:27:08amiconnmrRabbit: Tell that to Apple... preferably with backing from lots of other potential users...
01:27:25mrRabbitI would if they'd listen
01:27:37jhMikeSamiconn: what do they do over there? just run little apps with no battery time to actually use them?
01:27:37lostlogicNico_P: that would be awesome
01:27:43lostlogicI'm a horrible person when it comes to documenting my work.
01:28:00mrRabbithas some one taken a look at the firmware though? as in, sufficiently to estimate how difficult it is to port?
01:28:04lostlogicI converse about my work, not so much document.
01:28:29jhMikeSlostlogic: comments :) I don't doubt there's probably some wiki API stuff I made sorely out of date.
01:28:38amiconnjhMikeS: I only tried ipl once, on my mini 2nd gen. It booted once (with graphical glitches due to the "fractional bytes" on the right edge of the lcd). AFter shutting down, it refused to boot at all.
01:28:40Nico_Plostlogic: hehe :) a short summary of which bugs were recently fixed would be nice...
01:28:53 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
01:29:05 Quit MarcGuay ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:29:06amiconnSo I restored the ipod using the apple ipod updater, then started porting rockbox
01:29:07Nico_PjhMikeS: the wiki page aout the kernel needs an update! ;)
01:29:11lostlogicNico_P: ok, I'll do that.
01:29:21Nico_Plostlogic: thanks :)
01:29:28jhMikeSNico_P: I'd think so. :p
01:29:45Nico_Plostlogic: it will probably reveal very useful for regression testing
01:29:56amiconnThe time span: receiving ipod->trying ipl->restoring->starting to port rockbox->first music playback was ~10 hours
01:30:12mrRabbitI'm just wondering about the likelihood of some one doing it in the near future
01:30:32jhMikeSprobably less time than it would take to get iPL to actually work
01:30:41amiconnI don't know
01:31:03jhMikeSjust a snickering guess on my part :)
01:31:09amiconnI think that putting in our improvements shouldn't be difficult - if you're familiar with linux kernel sources
01:31:28amiconn...which I am absolutely not
01:31:35Nico_Pquite a big if
01:32:12 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]")
01:33:48*Nico_P is off to bed
01:33:58 Join BigBambi_ [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi)
01:33:59 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:34:18jhMikeScould be a fun kernel to work on actually
01:36:05jhMikeSI don't think the batt curve calibration is quit on the ball for this x5 battery...it seems to have a slightly lower peak V than the original
01:36:38 Join JRoT|Stage [0] (n=JRoT@ip4da03737.direct-adsl.nl)
01:37:23amiconnThe curve will never be perfect for an individual battery, it has to represent an average
01:37:40 Join MarcGuay [0] (i=d8ef5642@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-c17ec731bfc7a552)
01:37:45jhMikeSIt's about 4.12V after charge
01:39:15amiconnNot uncommon
01:39:20 Join [omni]_ [0] (n=omni@bestII.com)
01:39:25 Quit hardeep (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
01:39:25NSplitheinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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01:39:25 Quit safetydan (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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01:39:25 Quit bb (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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01:39:26 Quit lostlogic (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
01:39:26 Quit [omni] (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
01:39:35jhMikeSThe old one was 4.20V
01:39:38amiconnThe end-of-charge voltage on X5 and M5 varies quite a bit
01:39:47NHealheinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
01:39:47NJoinbb [0] (n=bb@unaffiliated/bb)
01:39:54amiconnI've seen values between 4.12 and 4.18 V
01:40:22MarcGuaypetur: thanks amigo.
01:40:27 Join lostlogic [0] (n=lostlogi@rockbox/developer/lostlogic)
01:40:45NJoinhardeep [0] (n=hardeep@c-24-5-74-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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01:40:48lostlogicwtf.
01:40:59 Quit GodEater_ (Connection timed out)
01:41:03 Quit [omni] (Success)
01:41:46 Quit petur ("Zzzzzz")
01:41:53mrRabbitwell this sucks...
01:42:02*mrRabbit throws his new iPod classic out of the window
01:42:17jhMikeSI got the batt for $28.50 US (free shipping)...a little more than 1/2 price of Cowon service and a better unit.
01:43:07 Quit mrRabbit ()
01:44:03 Quit barrywardell ()
01:45:22 Quit MarcGuay ("CGI:IRC")
01:49:14jhMikeSmegacapacity.com is definitely a good place for batt stuff :)
01:50:05lostlogicwhat happened to Nico ;(
01:50:30jhMikeSa dormir
01:51:54lostlogicdormiendo a hora!?
01:52:03lostlogics/a /a/
01:52:15hcscomment allez-vous?
01:52:36jhMikeSsi
01:53:05lostlogichcs: any new bugs to reoprt?
01:53:36hcslostlogic: yeah, but I haven't updated recently so maybe fixed
01:53:44 Quit JRoT (Connection timed out)
01:53:58lostlogichcs: do tell, and update ;)
01:54:05 Quit BigBambi (Connection timed out)
01:54:34hcslostlogic: just things freezing up on various devices.
01:54:48hcsnothing specific that I've been thorough in documenting
01:55:02lostlogickk, I fixed at least one freeze today.
01:56:38 Part toffe82
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02:00
02:00:51 Join midgey_ [0] (n=tjross@141.211.88.121)
02:02:13jhMikeScrap, that kernel stuff is sooo behind...and the pretty picture too
02:02:44 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
02:03:36jhMikeSfallback is not supported now either
02:08:50amiconnHmm. The G5 backlight brightness setup seems to be some kind of dimmer that is controlled by pulses on D7 and L6
02:09:15amiconnShort low pulses (10 us) dim into one direction, long pulses (200us) into the other
02:09:27amiconnDon't know yet which is which
02:09:37lostlogicinteresting design.
02:09:41amiconnPause between pulses is 350 us
02:10:03amiconnNeed to dissect the loop somewhat further, then do some tests
02:10:11amiconnBt now I need sleep
02:15:43 Quit midgey (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:18:55 Nick midgey_ is now known as midgey (n=tjross@141.211.88.121)
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02:20:04 Quit webguest05 (Client Quit)
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02:23:23kkurbjuncan anyone else get to the svn server? svn.rockbox.org?
02:23:34midgeyno problems here
02:23:47kkurbjunhmm
02:24:12kkurbjunwhat's the ip address you're getting for svn.rockbox.org?
02:24:25pregloweyhee
02:25:40 Join colin__ [0] (n=colin@host-155-47-107-208.midco.net)
02:26:02amiconnpreglow: Ah. Does the Nano OF have backlight brightness control?
02:27:51midgeykkurbjun: im getting 83.168.254.42, but that directs me to curl when i type it into firefox
02:28:29amiconnYeah, named vhosts
02:29:20kkurbjunmidgey thanks, something is messed up with my connection, I can't get to half of the sites I'm trying
02:29:39 Quit kkurbjun ("Leaving.")
02:29:56midgeyany time
02:34:40 Join Mouser_X [0] (i=cf9bb003@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-450067075e8efd23)
02:35:02preglowamiconn: i don't know
02:35:14preglowamiconn: never uswed of emough
02:35:34preglowand i happen to be toasted right now
02:37:21 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
02:38:46*preglow disintigrates
02:38:56Mouser_Xlostlogic: Is ADX playback fixed? I was listening to some today (on my Gigabeat, using a build from about 9-10 hours ago), and at some point, once the track was finished, it stopped playing.
02:39:39Mouser_XIt went to the next track, but never started playing it. If I stopped it, my Gigabeat stopped responding. I had to start a new playlist to get it working again.
02:39:52 Quit eigma (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:41:27Soapbefore I do my battery bench tests, I just want to verify that MOB hasn't gotten smart enough yet to realize that (for example) track 6 of a playlist is the same file as track 1, and only buffer said track once?
02:42:06*Mouser_X is getting the newest build.
02:48:55 Join webguest82 [0] (i=48927114@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e36b36a465a409a0)
02:49:08webguest82i have a WPS question?
02:49:29webguest82do they have to be BMP format?
02:50:06Mouser_XYes. IIRC, it has to do with CPU and decoding the pictures in a quick like manner.
02:51:11 Quit webguest82 (Client Quit)
02:55:16LloreanSoap: Last I heard it wasn't yet this smart
02:55:39Mouser_X(It'd be nice if it was though.)
02:56:37SoapI had not seen anything leading me to believe it was, I just didn't want to ASSume.
03:00
03:00:25LloreanI think with MoB I've been told this should be possible, but isn't done yet.
03:00:36 Quit stevenm ("Connection reset by beer")
03:01:30JdGordonI dont tihnk its really feasable atm.. but it shuold be possible
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03:15:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:17:49lostlogicMouser_X: adx will not be fixed until the codec is changed to read by frames/packets instead of attempting to read the whole file at once.
03:17:54lostlogicMouser_X: codec bug ;)
03:18:14Mouser_XIt worked for a bit. 20ish minutes?
03:18:49lostlogicwas it at a track boundary that it stopped?
03:19:03Mouser_XYes. The file had finished playing.
03:19:04lostlogicyeah, it'll work until a track wraps the buffer
03:19:34lostlogicand that's the way it will be until the codec is changed... and the codec is compatible with packet reading so it's a codec issue, not a buffering issue (sorry ;))
03:19:55Mouser_XIt happened twice. I stopped listening to ADXs after that. In both instances though, it completed the current file, as near as I can remember/tell.
03:20:24Mouser_XAh. I did think it odd that it finished the file, if it was a buffer issue.
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03:21:11*Mouser_X will be certain to bug HCS about it.
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04:02:05Calcipherhelloooo
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04:22:16psycho_maniacdo you think we could get a daylight savings time thing in rockbox with players with a rtc?
04:22:48scorchepeople use rockbox to tell time reliably? :)
04:23:10psycho_maniacwell i just looked at the clock on it. closest clock i have.
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04:25:03psycho_maniacbut it was just an idea and i think i know what you were getting at.
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04:35:13psycho_maniacfor some reason tagcache does not show up in the system menu. does this now show up when its not enabled at start up?
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04:36:32psycho_maniacoh nm i havnt used it in a long time and forgot what it was called in the debug menu.
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04:55:33safetydanpsycho_maniac: daylight savings rules are incredibly complex around the world. You'd have to set your location as well.
04:56:22Lloreansafetydan: Or you could just have it have two options, "DST +1 hour date" and "DST normal time date"
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04:56:35psycho_maniacoh yeah. that too. like set the time zone?
04:58:02safetydanLlorean: true
04:58:19DogBoyheh
04:58:25DogBoyyou could also just do it by hand
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04:59:58Lloreansafetydan: It'd be a nice in-between solution. DST without needing any sort of database of time zones *or* updates when governments do something crazy
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05:00:44DogBoyhow would having those two options be any easier than just changing the time
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05:01:10LloreanDogBoy: You set the two options once, ever, and then it's automated and you don't have to remember to do it on those days?
05:01:11advcomp2019have options to have DST on or off
05:01:40DogBoyoh I see
05:02:11LloreanThe only time you'd need to manually interfere is if your government arbitrarily decided to change when DST changes, or if you move someplace where it's different.
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05:07:40psycho_maniacwould it change at the correct time like how everything else does? or would it change on the date?
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05:22:14safetydanpsycho_maniac: the time that dst switchover occurs varies from place to place as well
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05:26:36psycho_maniaci guess i dont know anything about dst nationally
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05:32:28JdGordonpsycho_maniac: the dst thing was asked 6 motnsh ago and we decided its pointless adding the optino
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05:37:47safetydanIn the end it's just easier for the user to do it.
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05:45:59psycho_maniacbut it would be a cool feature.
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05:46:34psycho_maniacjust thought id throw that idea out there though. i dont mind changing the clock. its actually easier on my player then it is on my vcr.
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05:47:16Falco98random question: anyone in here know how to read japanese?
05:47:32scorchewhat does that have to do with rockbox?
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05:48:03Falco98little other than that i'm a community member needing quick emergency help if anyone can :-P
05:48:52scorchewouldnt you think #japanese is better than that?
05:48:58scorchethan here i mean?
05:49:08scorcheand you should know the guideline against off-topic..
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05:50:06Falco98not a topic, just a quick query of the room's population.
05:50:26scorchedoes it have something to do with rockbox?
05:50:55JdGordonscorche: such a meany :p
05:51:08psycho_maniacjust ask in the community channel
05:51:27scorcheJdGordon: well, people requested i be such...
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05:54:13Falco98actually someone just told me it's chinese :-P
05:55:09JdGordonscorche: whats happening with rocbox-themes ?
05:55:29scorcheFalco98: that doesnt make it any more on-topic
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05:56:03Falco98i'm a community member in an emergency, without my gmail account i can't contribue to rockbox as well as i sometimes do. there.
05:56:38Falco98i'm not trying to have a discussion or debate here. you can save the o/t naziism for when it's warranted.
05:57:31scorcheFalco98: i just dont see why you would come in here when #japanese way more potential speakers than rockbox does
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05:58:32Falco98i've taken that suggestion, thanks, and may have an answer. for some reason i wouldn't have thought of that if i hadn't asked in here (i'm stupid when panicking i guess), so thanks for the help =)
05:58:54Falco98(sorry for being snippy, just kinda panicking atm)
05:59:15scorcheJdGordon: need a password so i can set a ServerAlias or something of the ilk to use the cname themes.rockbox.org
05:59:48JdGordonso its all ready to go?
05:59:55scorcheshould be
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06:00
06:00:11scorchehas been ready for a while now
06:01:14psycho_maniacsweet. i cant wait.
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06:06:27lemurhi guys :)
06:07:02*Mouser_X waves half-heartedly.
06:07:07lemurWhy so down
06:07:16Mouser_X*abstradidly.
06:07:26Mouser_X*abstractidly
06:07:41lemurI ordered a sansa player from woot.com
06:08:04scorchea lot of us did
06:08:07lemurAt first I was thinking, "Shucks, what am I going to do with a stupid mp3/wma player... it doesn't even support ogg"
06:08:22Mouser_Xscorche beat me to it (I got 2).
06:08:25lemurThen I perked up when I read about rockbox supporting it as a platform.
06:08:26Langlyhmm odd
06:09:07Langlyhave a 1st gen ipod going to install rockbox on it, give me "It seems your Bootloader is already up to day. do you really want to install it"
06:09:23Langlythen unsupported install method
06:09:42Langlybah, now download errors lol
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06:10:31Langlythere we go ffs
06:10:47lemurSo what I really want learn about firmware
06:11:01lemurHas to do with the liklihood of bricking my shiny new player
06:11:12Mouser_Xlemur: Read the manual.
06:11:18lemurWhich one?
06:11:31Mouser_XReally, so long as you follow the instructions, you'll be fine.
06:11:41Mouser_XThe manual for the Sansa e200 perhaps?
06:12:29Mouser_Xhttp://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
06:12:33scorchelemur: i dont know of anyone who bricked their sansa with rockbox (although one claimed)....people have been able to get it into a brick-like state by ignoring our directions though
06:12:56JdGordonor just been idiots with it.. you cant brick the sansa though
06:13:25scorchewell, you can, but it requires a clue
06:13:37scorchend an actual effort
06:13:45lemurI'll be sure to read the manual
06:13:50Mouser_XI could do it. It'd involve a sledge hammer though.
06:13:54JdGordonthats what they all say ":p
06:14:02lemurI was just wondering if it had any firmware restore features
06:14:19Mouser_XYes, the e200 does have restoring features.
06:14:43lemuryay
06:14:46lemurRockbox makes my day
06:15:23lemurDon't you think some enterprising company would manufacture and ship a player with Rockbox preinstalled?
06:15:46JdGordonnot likely
06:15:55lemurwell I know companies here are nuts about DRM
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06:21:51lemurthe rockbox manual looks solid
06:21:54lemurI like it
06:22:21scorcheit is a fine manual :)
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06:27:44ttuttleHey. What can I do with Rockbox on the Sansa e200, other than listen to music?
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06:28:11Falco98er..
06:28:28Falco98listen to multiple formats? have high-powered control over dynamic playlists? play tetris?
06:28:36ttuttleFalco98: Mmm, Tetris you say?
06:28:38ttuttleFalco98: How is Doom?
06:29:00scorchettuttle: see the wikipage WhyRockbox
06:29:02Falco98haven't tried doom myself.. i can't imagine the players' tiny controls make it very productive, other than being a neat demo
06:29:16ttuttleOh what about other demos? Are they cool?
06:29:22Falco98but tetris, at least on the iriver h140, can be quite entertaining
06:29:34 Quit eigma (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
06:29:35ttuttle(Is it worth $35 to get one from Woot, given that I have an iAudio U3 already?)
06:29:37 Join eigma [0] (n=cat@216.48.162.210)
06:29:48scorcheonly you can decide that
06:29:52Falco98does your iaudio run rockbox?
06:29:58ttuttleFalco98: No.
06:30:01Falco98i forget which models do or don't
06:30:03ttuttleIt's the U3.
06:30:06scorcheFalco98: front page...
06:30:13 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
06:30:17Falco98yeah, my bad :-P
06:30:18psycho_maniacmy fav games are brickmania and chopper.
06:30:35scorchettuttle: a good many of us got one today because fo the price
06:30:41ttuttlescorche: Heh.
06:30:46ttuttlescorche: Is it worth it, you think?
06:30:48scorchebut like i said..only you can decide to get it or not
06:31:08Falco98chopper is cool.
06:31:12ttuttlescorche: That's what IRC is for −− so I can let you decide for me ;-)
06:31:21scorchewell, we just cant do it
06:31:26Falco98ttuttle: i can only tell you my experience −−
06:31:43Falco98i got my iriver h140 about a year and a half ago, and used the default firmware for maybe 2 days
06:31:48Falco98put rockbox on and was amazed
06:31:56ttuttleFalco98: Hmm, seems fun enough.
06:32:15Falco98several months later I tried the original firmware again just to see what i'd think, and it was like walking around with concrete shoes
06:32:19ttuttleFalco98: The thing is, I like my iAudio, despite the fact that it doesn't run Rockbox.
06:32:27ttuttleFalco98: So I'm not buying it as an MP3 player −− just another gadget.
06:32:33psycho_maniacyour lucky. i had to use the OF on the iriver h120 for a couple months. everything i always wished for rockbox had already.
06:32:56lemurwait, tetris?
06:32:57Falco98gotcha.. if you're itching for something to have rockbox on, it might be cool anyway. especially at $35... are they on special or something?
06:32:57lemurwhat??
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06:33:01ttuttleHow easy would it be to write my own apps?
06:33:03ttuttleFalco98: woot.com
06:33:21ttuttlerefurb 2 GB Sansa e250, $29.99 + $5 shipping
06:33:22Falco98psycho: you mean the original firmware had what you wanted?
06:33:35scorcheTTThomas: that depends on how well you knwo C
06:33:38scorchewhoops
06:33:47Falco98wow nice, heh
06:33:51scorchei meant ttuttle :)
06:33:52psycho_maniacno rockbox had what i wanted.
06:33:58ttuttleoh, what can rockbox play for video? is it better than the "native" video players? does it have a-v sync problems?
06:33:59Falco98though 2 gigs seems a little tiny, but for a flash player i could jostle a bit...
06:34:06Falco98ahh, yeah
06:34:09ttuttlei'd kill for something that actually played video well that wasn't video-iPod sized and expensive.
06:34:15psycho_maniaci remember one time i fell asleep scrolling through all my songs it took so long. no joke but i was tired also
06:34:18ttuttleFalco98: SDHC FTW.
06:34:36Falco98ttuttle: hehe yeah
06:34:39ttuttleHow's the video?
06:34:52scorchettuttle: you can find out in the manual, depends on the device, not if encoded correctly
06:35:04scorche(for the most part)
06:35:09Mouser_Xpsycho_maniac: I fall asleep just looking at Rockbox... Then again, I'm lucky to get 6 hours of sleep a night...
06:35:25psycho_maniacwow
06:35:45ttuttlechecking...
06:35:51Mouser_Xttuttle: For video, I recommend the Gigabeat.
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06:36:02ttuttleMouser_X: Well how is it on the Sansa?
06:36:10Mouser_XHowever, 2nd place for Rockbox players (IMHO) would be the Sansa.
06:36:22Mouser_X(I don't have a Sansa yet. I got mine off of woot.)
06:37:23 Quit linuxstb__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:37:34Lloreanttuttle: It's quite good on the Sansa
06:37:57ttuttleLlorean: okay
06:38:02*ttuttle should buy one.
06:38:10LloreanNothing close to the gigabeat, but quite watchable
06:38:16LloreanAnd far, far better than the original firmware on the Sansa
06:38:18lemurI'm glad I secured my order... sounds like they're going to sell out
06:38:20ttuttleLlorean: Any A-V sync problems?
06:38:38ttuttlelemur: Nah, they're not even down to 10% left yet.
06:39:03lemurnice
06:39:13Mouser_Xttuttle: In truth, I'd say the Gigabeat is 1st place in (almost?) everything, with Rockbox on it. The Sansa e200 takes 2nd for a few reasons. (IMHO of course)
06:39:16Lloreanttuttle: Not if you encode at the recommended quality levels
06:39:26ttuttleDone.
06:39:35ttuttleI've got one.
06:39:36LloreanMouser_X: The H100 series trounces the Gigabeat in most categories that aren't related to the display, or sheer processing power.
06:39:42ttuttleMan, woot is a money sink.
06:40:10psycho_maniacreally Llorean. why is that? because its been around longer and almost ready for a rockbox release?
06:40:18Mouser_XLlorean: Ah. I know that topic had come up before, but I had forgotten (I don't have one of those, and have no experience with it.)
06:40:27scorchedifferent devices have different capabilities...
06:40:36scorchespdif, battery life, etc
06:41:00psycho_maniacthey were very nice. i say were because i had one LOVED it and then sold it and when i got it back it was in horrible shape
06:41:33Mouser_XSo, the Gigabeat is 2nd, and the Sansa takes 3rd?
06:41:40Mouser_X:P
06:41:52Lloreanpsycho_maniac: Recording features, the option for bit-perfect output quality, LCD remote, better resistance to drops (the gigabeat snaps open if you drop it at just the right angle), and a few other things.
06:42:30Mouser_XHmmm. Those are some very nice features.
06:42:44psycho_maniacoh yes. i havnt used one in so long. recording was very nice on that plaayer. i kinda miss it
06:43:09 Quit midgey ()
06:43:16Mouser_X(Recording would be nice, as would an LCD remote. However, I'm fine with the remote the Gigabeat has.)
06:43:39LloreanThe gigabeat remote isn't bad, but I do miss being able to manipulate the playlist from the remote.
06:44:01psycho_maniaci was happy with the remote for a couple days. i could deal with a remote without a lcd.
06:44:17Mouser_XYou can, if you practice enough. Can't you access the main menu from the remote?
06:44:35psycho_maniacon the iriver yes. not sure on the gigabeat
06:44:37LloreanWell yes, but then you have to take the Gigabeat itself out of the bag or pocket
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06:44:57psycho_maniacor not if you have voice turned on
06:45:01Mouser_XIf you're blind, you'd have it all memorized...
06:45:17Lloreanpsycho_maniac: I don't like to enable voice.
06:45:18*Mouser_X knows someone who's blind, and plays Gameboy games.
06:45:25lemurInteresting
06:45:34psycho_maniaci tried it just to see how it worked. got annoying after awhile.
06:45:38lemurIt's like that album, Tommy, by The Who
06:47:10Mouser_XI don't have voice enabled either. As such, it does make manipulating the playlist difficult. But it could be done if you pracitce enough. (But it's probably not worth the time and effort to practice that much).
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06:50:08lemurhey, I can listen to Tommy on my mp3 player using rockbox
06:50:09lemurthat rocks
06:50:42ttuttlelol
06:51:30Mouser_XI can listen to SNES music, and Nintendo music with Rockbox.
06:51:37Mouser_XNow *that* is what rocks.
06:51:50lemurtotally
06:51:53lemurbut where do you get that?
06:51:56tuplanollarockbox rocks
06:52:02Mouser_X(Those are formats that you will not find support for on *any* other player...
06:53:13Mouser_Xlemur: Unfortunatly for you, #rockbox-respects-copyright
06:53:16psycho_maniacnever
06:54:49lemurOn the contrary, I never asked you to violate copyright law
06:55:16lemurI am sure, however, that you don't dump your own ROM images and rip the audio from each one
06:55:54Mouser_XOf course not. However, last time I linked ot such sites, I was asked to stop.
06:56:13lemurI am also sure that nobody here actually knows how that IP is licensed
06:56:20lemurWell of course, don't link it
06:56:40lemurI just mean, if you told me "I downloaded it somwhere," I'd go on my merry way :">
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06:57:48ttuttleheh
06:57:53ttuttlei always love these conversations
06:58:32lemurI don't like them, lol
06:58:50lemurI respect channel policy, so I don't care to risk making it seem like I want to violate it
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07:00
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07:01:05Mouser_Xlemur: I do actually know people who *do* dump their own ROMs and such.
07:01:16Mouser_X(They have the resources to do so.)
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07:05:35lemurI wish I knew more about electronics
07:05:39lemurI should change my major
07:05:58Langlyfresh with rockbox http://langlyweb.no-ip.com/ipwsc.jpg
07:06:59scorcheLangly: stay around...a person with a first gen might come in handy :)
07:07:17Mouser_XNice speakers. My dad has some like that.
07:07:28 Part safetydan
07:07:33LanglyI got that iPod for 2$ ripped to pieces in a small box with some burnt wires
07:07:38Langlyput it back together
07:07:40Langlyand it works fine
07:08:00Langlybacklight shows some dingyness to the back side of the screen though
07:08:31Langlyyellowing of the plastic membrane, but other than that and the headphone jack being slightly damaged but still functional it works fine
07:08:59psycho_maniacso you bought it for 2 bucks and didnt have to put any money into it?
07:09:04Langlyyup
07:09:13LanglyI cant even find more speakers like that one though, even with google
07:09:19Mouser_XWow... Lucky you had good hardware knowledge.
07:09:19psycho_maniacthats a deal. was it hard putting back together?
07:09:22Langlynice and load on the ipod
07:09:28Langlyloud
07:09:32Langlynope
07:09:43LanglyI should name it GLaDOS though :P
07:10:05scorcheLangly: can you please join #rockbox-community and discuss this further there? :)
07:10:15Mouser_XLangly: As I said, my dad has some like that. I'm guessing they're more than 10 years old...
07:10:22Mouser_Xscorche: Sorry.
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07:12:18advcomp2019now i am having random music stoppings then it locks up during shut down
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07:15:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:17:12Langlyso why might you need someone with a 1st gen?
07:18:28Mouser_XBug testing.
07:20:42scorcheyou never know :)
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07:27:11woodensoulfor anyone interested, woot.com still has the Sansa e250 for $35 shipped
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07:29:23 Quit colin__ ()
07:31:49woodensoulAlso, is anyone around who can help me out with the video conversion process? I've tried all the methods on the wicki but always get errors.
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07:32:15Mouser_Xwoodensoul: It's possible your video is bad.
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07:33:41Mouser_Xwoodensoul: If you've tried every method, then hopefully you've tried this one: Did you use WinFF? It's worked wonders for me.
07:34:05Mouser_XIt's even worked on videos that crash all the other players I've tried to play them on.
07:34:30Mouser_X(Of course, the result of those videos was very poor, but they were at least watchable.)
07:35:00 Part loa_dude ("Ex-Chat")
07:35:30woodensoulYes, I've tried that one. I'm not able to get any of them to work and I'm thinking it has something to do with the source files have multi channel audio.
07:36:10Lloreanwoodensoul: I regularly convert 5.1 audio to 2-channel MP3 for my videos in WinFF
07:37:03woodensoulLlorean: I guess I must need to modify the instrucions on the site to get it to work then.
07:38:11Mouser_XWhat do you do, using WinFF, to convert? For me, it's as simple as adding the video in question, selecting the target (Gigabeat, in my case), and giving a destincation. Click convert, and it's as good as done.
07:38:21Mouser_XEven on really screwed up videos.
07:39:31woodensoulWell it's been awhile, but I remember doing exactly that, but I got an error message and the conversion wouldn't work.
07:39:47lemurI love rockbox
07:40:03Mouser_Xwoodensoul: What was the message?
07:40:10woodensoulGive me a second and I'll tell you exactly what the message is.
07:40:32Mouser_X(All I ever get, if anything, is Window's "This has done an illegal operation and must close" or whatever.)
07:43:14*Llorean wonders what OS woodensoul is on.
07:43:28woodensoulXP SP2
07:43:41woodensoulI'm giving it a go right now... one sec
07:44:37*Mouser_X runs XP SP1 on his PC.
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07:45:20woodensoulI'm having a problem getting the Rockbox presets to load
07:45:36woodensoulI replaced the presets.xml with the one on the site.
07:45:43Mouser_XAh.
07:45:52Mouser_XYou've got the wrong version of WinFF.
07:45:59Mouser_XYou need 0.29
07:46:14woodensoulGotcha
07:46:17woodensoulI'll install .29
07:46:18Mouser_XFor some reason, 0.31 doesn't load the presets from that preset.xml file.
07:46:31woodensoulbut the last time I was able to get the presets to load... one sec again
07:48:06Mouser_XAfter some learning/figuring out, I was able to import the presets to 0.31, but I went back to 0.29 anyway, since 0.31 seemed to cause massive corruption on my converted videos (though, it might not have been 0.31 that caused that. I was never able to pin it down exactly).
07:48:48woodensoulhow can I tell which aspect ratio to select?
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07:49:01Mouser_XWhat player do you use?
07:49:07LloreanMouser_X: Wrong
07:49:17LloreanIs the source video "widescreen" or "fullscreen"
07:49:25Mouser_XSorry, I mistook aspect ratio.
07:49:41LloreanIt's source AR, since all the players are nominally ~4:3
07:49:41woodensoulSeveral of them, but at the moment I'm trying for the Sansa. The source video is not fullscreen, so that would be 16:9 right?
07:49:42Mouser_X(very rarely do I have to select something other than 4:3)
07:50:19LloreanThough I'm going to make presets for .31 soon, with better aspect ratios (4:3 and 16:9 and Fullscreen choices for players where fullscreen isn't exactly 4:3)
07:50:32Lloreanor rather, isn't the best approximation
07:51:23woodensoulK, here comes the error...
07:52:11Mouser_XLlorean: Oddly enough, when I converted Back to the Future, the resulting video (not the resolution but the actual images) was the same size, regardless of what aspect ratio I chose. I find this odd, because all the other videos I'd converted got either squished, or stretched, when I changed aspect ratios.
07:52:25woodensoulResampling with input channels greater than 2 unsupported. Can't resample. Aboring.
07:53:00LloreanMouser_X: Very strange
07:53:25woodensoul*Aborting*
07:54:05woodensoulthe source file is .avi with ac3 audio, 48000 Hz, 5:1, 384 kb/s
07:54:14woodensoulas reported by WinFF
07:54:48LloreanOdd, I've converted from DVDs which had AC3, 48khz, 5:1, 448kbps I believe.
07:54:56Mouser_XI even edited the BttF video, to force it to be widescreen (the original file has black bars above and below). After converting, the black bars were back...
07:56:21woodensoulIt also says "Seems stream 0 codec frame rate differs from container frame rate: 23.98 (65535/2733) -> 23.98 (2997/125)"
07:56:36LloreanThat's pretty usual
07:57:34woodensoulAny ideas on my error?
07:58:04LloreanI dunno
07:58:19LloreanTry using winff .31 and importing the presets from within the program. I think it can import older presets
07:58:31LloreanIt seems like something that would be fixed by a newer ffmpeg version
07:58:41LloreanBut my presets definitely won't work with the newer ffmpegs since they renamed some of the codecs
07:59:32Mouser_XAh. That could be why my videos were so garbled... I just did copy+paste between the 2 versions.
07:59:52woodensoulhow can i import the presets from within the program?
08:00
08:01:02amiconnmo0ning
08:01:10amiconnLlorean: You have a nano, right?
08:01:29Lloreanamiconn: Yes. But not with me, I'm away from home and most of my players until a week from Wed.
08:01:58amiconnHmm. Do you know whether the OF has backlight brightness control?
08:02:08LloreanNot that I've seen
08:02:16amiconnI *think* it does not from looking at the ROM
08:02:18LloreanBut I may have missed it.
08:02:33amiconnBtw, the nano seems to be the only ipod with just 512KB ROM
08:02:38LloreanI'd say it doesn't, but I'm just not wholly sure. I did look through the options when I got it.
08:03:40amiconnIf it doesn't, I will split the backlight driver for nano/video when adding brightness control for video
08:05:01woodensoulwell i tried copying the params from the presets.xml to the .31 version, but it didn't work. The command line pops up and quickly closes.
08:08:04woodensoulIt's working now that I've put in the -an parameter, but that removes the audio. Not exactly what I wanted, but it does tell us something.
08:08:14Lloreanamiconn: In fact, I'm *almost* certain it doesn't, because I remember the newer 1 gigabyte models being dimmer than 2/4 gigabyte ones
08:09:01LloreanLeading to people wanting a brightness option under the assumption that it was the same hardware at a different brightness.
08:09:36*JdGordon looks for his nano to check
08:11:34JdGordonamiconn: i cant find any brightness controls
08:11:43scorchenope...there is backlight timer, but that is it
08:11:49amiconnok
08:12:19LloreanThough does that necessarily mean it can't be adjusted?
08:12:56amiconnThat makes me wonder a bit why the nano uses the same 2 port pins for switching the backlight as the video
08:13:27amiconnI guess it's 2 pins one the video because one switches the actual backlight power, and the other switches power to the pwm circuit
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08:16:43*pixelma listens to some music from <microSD1> on her c200 :D
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08:18:38JdGordonnice :)
08:19:04JdGordontime to retire the ondio then?
08:19:15amiconnSo I have something to commit :)
08:19:17JdGordondeath to hwcodec!
08:19:31*amiconn slaps JdGordon a bit
08:19:40JdGordonhehe :)
08:19:40Mouser_XI didn't think that had been commited...
08:19:43amiconnYou never heard the difference, did you?
08:19:48Mouser_X(If it did, I missed it.)
08:19:52pixelmaJdGordon: I won't
08:19:55amiconnMouser_X: what?
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08:20:13Mouser_Xc200 reading microSD cards.
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08:20:20lemurman I can't wait to use rockbox
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08:20:25Mouser_X(I most likely missed hte commit.
08:20:29amiconnMouser_X: It will in less than a minute :)
08:20:34lemurI don't get microSD... what's wrong with regular SD
08:20:43lemurbigger form facter == greater storage capacity?
08:21:02lemurand it's not like they're too big
08:21:06JdGordonmicrosd means its easier to stick in a small gadget
08:21:10pixelmaJdGordon: the Ondio has a much nicer sound with the same mp3s for example...
08:21:17Lloreanbigger form factor == less space inside the device for permanent storage, wifi, and other little things
08:21:18Mouser_XMicro SD is smaller, so it's more expensive. This way, they can charge more, and people are less likely to complain...
08:21:32amiconnMouser_X: committed.
08:21:33lemurbastards
08:22:27Mouser_X(Note: That's possibly just me, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't some truth to it.)
08:22:42lemurmy gp2x has an SD card slot
08:22:47lemurit doesn't take much space
08:23:25amiconnmicroSD would have worked on c200 for two days already if jhMikeS wouldn't have hidden that nasty card presence check in the read & write functions ;)
08:23:30JdGordona full sd chip covers more than half the e200's screen.. so if there was a slot for it it would have to be much bigger
08:23:39Lloreanlemur: The GP2X already has a certain minimum physical size for usable controls and screen, so they might have "extra" space there for fullsize cards where they don't elsewhere
08:23:55lemurhehe
08:24:01eigmaJdGordon: <random>what timezone are you in!? it's 2:30 am over here</random>
08:24:24JdGordoneigma: gmt+10 dst
08:24:32JdGordon18.24 here
08:24:38eigmaaiiieeeee
08:24:43JdGordononly for a few more weeks though :)
08:24:50eigmathen?
08:24:57JdGordonseatle
08:25:50JdGordonhows the dsp hacking going? anything useful yet?
08:26:03*JdGordon should learn to be patient :p
08:26:04eigmanah
08:26:19eigmaheh, it's quite all right, I know where you're coming from
08:26:32lemurdsp hacking eh
08:26:36woodensoulAnybody know why "recently added" in the database doesn't work for the Sansa?
08:27:09JdGordonwoodensoul: no auto update on the sansa
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08:28:13woodensoulWhat does that have to do with it? I don't have auto update enabled on my other players and recently added still works.
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08:31:42pixelmawoodensoul: I think that is broken since MoB, not sure though. IIRC there's a rlated bug report in the tracker
08:32:29pixelmaso, it's broken on swcodec...
08:32:56woodensoulBut it didn't work even before MoB.
08:33:37pixelmano idea then
08:33:47JdGordonyeah, I'm not sure how MoB could have broken that.. arnt they completly unrelated?
08:34:01 Quit kubiix ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
08:34:09JdGordonwoodensoul: if you force an update does it work?
08:34:28lemurwhy force it
08:34:36woodensoulJdGordon: no
08:34:52woodensoulNothing has ever shown up for me in recently added for the sansa
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08:35:44JdGordonSlasheri is the guy to talk to on this one...
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08:36:12pixelmawoodensoul: and you have "gather runtime data" enabled?
08:36:44woodensoulYes
08:37:06JdGordonis the time/date set correctly?
08:37:20woodensoulyes
08:37:30JdGordonwas it when you added tracks?
08:37:54woodensoulAs far as I know, it has been correct for a long time.
08:38:17pixelmaJdGordon: this feature is most probably not rtc dependent, as it works on my Ondio (since 2 days)...
08:38:26woodensoulI guess this would be a good time to ask how the recently added items are determined.
08:38:46*JdGordon shuts up and gets back to studying
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08:42:48advcomp2019why does the latest rockbox build for the sansa e200 pause when you go into the menu
08:43:56JdGordonblame Llorean
08:44:05JdGordonprobably mistake in the keymap
08:44:11eigmalemur: just trying to get the m:robe port to leverage the DSP in the m:robe
08:44:32advcomp2019now i see it now.. it is a keymap change
08:46:14LloreanPause when you go into the menu?
08:46:35LloreanIt stops when you press the power button, but it doesn't pause.
08:46:55LloreanJdGordon: No mistake, someone who doesn't know that there's a difference between stop and pause.
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08:47:32JdGordon...
08:47:38advcomp2019it starts off back to where it was left off, Llorean
08:47:48Lloreanadvcomp2019: Yes, Rockbox can resume stopped music.
08:47:53*JdGordon in the "get rid of the difference" party
08:48:11LloreanJdGordon: That would make it more of a hassle to clear your playlist then.
08:48:20JdGordonin fact... i've had a thought about how to do it so its no problem
08:48:35LloreanWhat's that, make the freed up button a "clear playlist" button?
08:48:47JdGordonthats 1 idea..
08:49:14LloreanBecause I'm quite strongly against someone reducing the playlisting functionality, which is basically what would happen if you removed the separated features.
08:49:15JdGordonno, i was thinking if the music is "stopped/paused" then diong any playlist adding starts a new one, as it is now
08:49:32*JdGordon thought eh problem was with it restarting and having to know if its a "new" playlist or not
08:49:36LloreanThen it's pretty much impossible to manipulate a playlist without music playing
08:49:46LloreanSuch as pausing it, and building a playlist before a party starts or whatnot.
08:50:10amiconnPause and stop have a difference that's worth keeping both
08:50:23amiconn*that makes it worth
08:50:29LloreanI think the only thing that really needs to be focused on is the fact that voice can't work while Paused right now.
08:50:41LloreanSince there should be some way to circumvent that problem.
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08:51:08amiconnyes
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08:51:38advcomp2019Llorean, now i have to relearn the button in rockbox but that is ok
08:51:39JdGordonit shuold be possible to make it smart enough to figure out if it shuold be added to a new playlist or the current one, basd on how long ago music was stopped
08:52:03Lloreanadvcomp2019: The changes are in the manual, and I'll bet it won't take you long.
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08:52:12*JdGordon thinks for "ask before playlist erase" should be removed and set to ask
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08:52:32amiconnJdGordon: The important difference is that Stop flushes the main buffer, while Pause does not
08:52:35LloreanJdGordon: "Ask" drives me nuts. I don't click on a song unless I meant to. :-P
08:52:40*pixelma disagrees
08:52:52*amiconn agrees with Llorean
08:52:53JdGordonamiconn: that should be "easy" to stop though
08:53:02wangx794Hi, can anyone tell me how to enable playcount in the IPOD VIDO?
08:53:21amiconnJdGordon: ?
08:53:26amiconnIt's desired behaviour...
08:53:45JdGordonwhy is it any better than not flushing?
08:53:58amiconnThe only quirk (on swcodec) is that voice doesn't work when paused. *That* should be fixed
08:54:19amiconnOn hwcodec it can't be fixed, as voice needs the main buffer (and the MAS)
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08:57:13pixelmathat disagree was related to JdGordon's comment btw., so agreement with Llorean
08:58:18JdGordon.... obviously....
08:58:23JdGordonnoone ever agrees with me :'(
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08:59:24LloreanHonestly, if "Ask when erasing dynamic playlist" were removed, the way *I'd* do it is to have it ask when they hit "Right" on a song, but not ask when they hit "Select"
08:59:32lemurwtf is an rsn file?
09:00
09:00:22pixelmaLlorean: that won't work on Ondio... :|
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09:01:44pixelmathere's only "right", no "select" and not a second why to "click" on a file
09:01:53pixelma*way
09:03:53JdGordon.... anyway... i still dont think its necassary to flsuh the buffer after playback is stopped unless the new playlist is differnt
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09:15:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:36:53*pondlife reads recent logs
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09:37:22 Nick JdGordon_ is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
09:37:36pondlifeJdGordon Stopping playback (or starting a new playlist) shouldn't need the buffer clearing.
09:37:50pondlifeYou don't know if the new playback will require currently buffered data
09:37:59pondlifeNo need to spinup just for the sake of it
09:38:14pondlifeBuffer should only be cleared when room is needed for more data
09:39:12pondlifeAnd I hope noone's serious about removing the clear playlist warning ;)
09:39:15JdGordonthis is wha im saying.... it should be easy to set a flag if the playlist changes while playback is stopped and only rebuffer if that flag was set
09:39:29pondlifeNo, should be simpler than that
09:40:09pondlifePlayback requests the next file, if it's in the buffer, it's returned from the buffer. If not, then it's read from disk, clearing old data if needed.
09:40:29pondlifeFor file, read chunk.
09:40:42pondlifeNo need for special cases
09:40:55pondlifeStop/pause should be different, but only at a UI level
09:41:07pondlifeOn SWCODEC, I mean, of course
09:41:27JdGordonthough that means the buffering needs to keep track of the filenames in the buffer.. which is the same case as not rebufffering the same track multiple times
09:41:40pondlifeIndeed
09:41:53pondlifeBut we can add that behind the API in the future.
09:42:09pondlifeThere's no need for the playback/playlist code to concern itself
09:43:27JdGordonwhich brings us back to "[18:53:29] <amiconn> It's desired behaviour..." re flushing the buffer on stop
09:43:49JdGordonit sholdnt be flushed unless something needs it (which sounds like voice would)
09:43:55pondlifeOn MAS, yes
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09:44:09pondlifeI'm only talking SwCODEC
09:44:13*JdGordon too
09:44:50*JdGordon possibly getting confused with the voice requirements though
09:45:29pondlifeI don't see it's desirable to discard data earlier than needed.
09:45:51pondlifeThe point of playlist clearing shouild be when you start a new playlist, not when you stop playback.
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09:46:05*Bagder agrees
09:46:27pondlifeAnd that should tie in nicely with the dynamic (i.e. unsaved) playlist warning
09:46:48pondlifeI don't see that the STOP state needs to have anything to do with that
09:51:53pondlifeProblems are that (a) PAUSE kills voice and (b) resuming from STOP is slower than from PAUSE
09:51:54JdGordonBagder: nice stats.. are they autogenerated?
09:51:54Bagderonly partly
09:51:54JdGordonfor next time can you do # downloads / number of commits for the month? or does that only make sense in my twisted-sleep-deprived mind?
09:51:54pondlifeWhere are these stats?
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09:51:54Bagderwell, at least it's a number I can calculate and yeah it could be interesting to see if the increased amount is due to more commits
09:51:54Bagderpondlife: http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2007/11/06/rockbox-downloads-oct-2007/
09:51:54pondlifeThanks
09:51:54JdGordonpondlife: right, so what Im saying should happen is if STOP was pressed it should act the same as PAUSE unless voiced before restart
09:51:54DBUGEnqueued KICK pondlife
09:51:54pondlifeNo
09:51:54pondlifeNo special cases
09:51:54DBUGEnqueued KICK JdGordon
09:51:54JdGordonthen fix voice :p
09:51:54***Alert Mode level 1
09:51:54pondlifeLater
09:51:59pondlifeFor now, PAUSE and STOP remain seperate (STOP for voice, PAUSE for fast resume).
09:52:24pondlifeBut we clear out the logical differences with playlist handling etc.
09:52:46pondlifeThen, later, when we have low-latency PCM, we can clear out the voice/resume stuff
09:52:52pondlifeAnd then free up a button
09:53:08pondlifeIt'll take a while I expect (that last bit).
09:53:15BagderJdGordon: october had 2% more commits
09:53:26Bagderthan august
09:53:32pondlifeFirst is to get agreement (and documentation) on what the playlist logic should be
09:53:49Bagder(448 vs 435)
09:54:47JdGordon<maths voice> which is all int he margin of error, so they shouldnt really make a difference.. which means we are getting lots more users!</voice> :p
09:55:06Bagderyeps
09:55:17pondlife<pedant>unmatched tags!</pedant>
09:55:23JdGordon:)
09:55:25Bagderpossibly August was still summer and relaxed times and thus less downloads
09:55:35pondlifeHaha
09:55:46JdGordonthat doesnt really work when half the world is in winter at that time
09:55:55JdGordonand by hlf.. i mean like 10% of the population :p
09:55:58BagderI believe most users are US and EU
09:56:06BagderI mean more than 50%
09:56:32Bagdermore than 50% of the population isn't ;-)
09:57:00BagderChina and India will eat us all one day
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09:57:32pondlifeHaha, more than 50% of the population use Rockbox
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10:00
10:01:55***Alert Mode OFF
10:02:00Bagderwell, 50% of the _important_ population! ;-P
10:03:06JdGordonimportant???
10:03:28JdGordonyou forgotten the ipod-idiots we get? you call them important?
10:03:44pondlifeI like the way there was a couple of days delay after MoB was committed before the forum started buzzing with bug reports... now they continue to buzz about bugs that have been fixed...
10:03:49JdGordon... that came out wrong.. but you knwo wha i mean :p
10:03:54Bagderyeah for boosting our revenue... oh now wait a minute...
10:04:42JdGordonspeaking of revenue.. what ever happened with the ads diea?
10:04:46JdGordonidea*
10:05:45Bagderit dried out
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10:09:31markunBagder: and did we receive the money from google?
10:09:57Bagdernot yet, but the form has been filled in and sent to them (by zagor)
10:10:39Bagderin fact even without having to visit the US embassy and whatnot
10:10:59Bagderwe're simply "foreign"
10:11:07pondlifealien
10:11:10Bagderyes yes, we don't know anyone in the US ;-)
10:11:38markunBagder: not even the 2 americans who were at the summit of course :)
10:11:52pondlifeThey did good fake swedish accents.
10:11:58Bagderhaha
10:12:03pondlifebork
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10:13:00pondlifeJdGordon: So, has anyone come up with a good reason why STOP should clear a playlist? As opposed to playing a new track (i.e. starting a new playlist)...
10:13:19CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
10:13:19*pondlife may have missed something important
10:13:52JdGordonno.. I dont think so
10:14:22JdGordonwait...
10:14:23JdGordonmm...
10:14:51JdGordonoh yeah.. na.. we all agree there is no need to clear the playlist untill a new one is created
10:14:56pondlifeOK
10:16:18JdGordonjust had a very quick look and I dont tihnk the playlist is actually erased untill a new one is created
10:16:24JdGordonits the unbuffering which is the problem
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10:19:02JdGordonapart from bloat... is there any reason why the core shuold be able to work with a playlist thats not the current one?
10:19:13pondlifeKISS
10:19:15JdGordon.. apart from saving and loading to a file
10:19:28pondlifeOne at a time seems best for the UI IMHO
10:19:37JdGordonthe core already does this.. thats why im asking
10:19:43JdGordonor it seems to..
10:19:43pondlifeI would like to have it remember the filename of the current playlist though
10:20:13pondlifeSo the "dynamic" playlist warning becomes more general and prompts for unsaved changes
10:20:31pondlifePlaylist Catalog helps, but it could be more automatic
10:20:33JdGordonthat sounds reasonable
10:20:41 Quit woodensoul ()
10:20:50pondlifeBut ony one playlist at a time still
10:21:10pondlifeThere are a lot of special cases in playlist handling that could be removed, I suspect.
10:21:20pondlifeIt needs a logical going-over, so to speak.
10:21:30amiconnJdGordon: Stop *must not* act the same as Pause for hwcodec
10:21:34JdGordonwe need a new API.. then me to do a half assed attempt.. then get Nico onto it :D
10:22:04pondlifeamiconn: We're only talking about playlists, not changing the actual STOP/PAUSE audio handling.
10:22:12JdGordonamiconn: untill the playback engines are merged that shouldnt be a problem
10:22:34pondlifeThat can't happen on SWCODEC either, until the voice and fast resume issues are fixed.
10:22:47amiconnpondlife: It *is* due to playlists and the buffer, not audio output
10:22:54pondlifeAh?
10:23:06pondlifePlaylist clearing is required for MAS to talk?
10:23:09amiconnVoice cannot work on hwcodec while the buffer is taken
10:23:19amiconnNo, buffer clearing is required
10:23:19JdGordonright, but the playlist stays in memory
10:23:25pondlifeAnd the buffer is needed for the playlist?
10:23:35pondlifeI'm only talking about the list, not the audio data.
10:23:43amiconnThe playlists stays in memory anyway
10:23:54amiconnI think you were talking about the audio data
10:23:57pondlifeNo
10:24:22pondlifeThat would be nice on SWCODEC, once playlists are consistently handled and the buffering bugs all fixed
10:24:44pondlifeBut not part of the current work at all
10:25:11*amiconn would rather keep the current stop/puase differentiation, and just fix the voice during pause problem on swcodec
10:25:37pondlifeWe are keeping STOP/PAUSE differentiation.
10:25:52amiconnBtw, voice needing the main buffer is in fact not a hwcodec issue, but a lowmem issue
10:26:15amiconnIt also applies to the iFP (well, maybe not yet)
10:26:32pondlifeThe problem is in playlist-handling when stopped. Some parts of the code treat this as if the playlist isn't available, when it is.
10:26:40pondlifeOr at least the UI seems to
10:26:42amiconnwhere?
10:27:43pondlifeInsert
10:27:57pondlifeIt always clears the playlist
10:28:35amiconnAh, yes. I much prefer it that way
10:28:36pondlifeShould allow inserting into an existing playlist while stopped. I don't see how playlist handling should be tied into STOP/PLAY state.
10:28:45pondlifeI'd prefer them to be totally independent
10:29:08pondlifeSimpler to understand, and simpler code too, I hope
10:29:16amiconnIt makes it way easier to start a new, shuffled playlist without the cumbersome switch to shuffle mode, by using "insert shuffled"
10:29:25JdGordonthats going back to the problem with how do you know when to create a new list or add to the current one?
10:29:52pondlifeSelect a track to start it playing in a new playlist (with right or SELECT).
10:30:09pondlifeBut Insert just inserts
10:30:19amiconnAnd what about 'insert shuffled'?
10:30:32pondlifeI don't see that option when stopped
10:30:32amiconnI would hate to lose that method
10:30:56amiconnDirectories have it
10:31:08JdGordona possibly not-so-nice way of doing it is changing the playlist option to "Playlist (current)" and "Playlist (new)" and have the same options in both
10:31:31pondlifeUrgh, no
10:31:38pondlifeSimple is good
10:31:51amiconnIt's simple like it is now, imo
10:31:58JdGordonsimple without losing flexibility sucks though
10:32:40pondlifeI'm happy for it to start playback, but I don't want it to clear my existing playlist.
10:33:02pondlifei.e. insert shuffled logically would insert that album shuffled into the current playlist, no?
10:33:17JdGordonOR... we could add a "clear playlist" option to the playlists main menu... then keep all the current options and alwys instert into the current list
10:33:19pondlifeThe word "insert" implies that
10:33:32amiconnurgh
10:34:25JdGordonlast option.... add a clear playlist item to the insert menu (the bottom item)?
10:34:47pondlifeI don't like the need for a new option
10:34:55pondlifeThere must be another way.
10:34:59JdGordonthere has to be a way to clear the playlist somewhere...
10:35:16pondlifeYes, selecting a file..
10:35:28pondlifeIt's only on directories we have a problem, right?
10:35:37JdGordonumm.. yeah
10:36:13pondlifeSo, the context menu has options for "Play" and "Play shuffled" ?
10:36:23pondlifeThose are destructive
10:36:42pondlifeInsert always inserts, play implies a clear
10:36:50pondlifeThat should make sense
10:37:08JdGordonyeah.. we use that notion already with "play next"
10:37:21pondlifeThen we can have the same options when stopped or playing
10:37:39pondlifeCurrently most options are unavailable when stopped
10:37:39*amiconn isn't convinced at all
10:37:47pondlifeWhy?
10:37:48amiconnThe current behaviour is nice & simple...
10:37:54pondlifeI disagree
10:38:02pondlifeIt's not intuitive at all.
10:38:08JdGordonand single files? replace "insert" with "play"?
10:38:16pondlifeNo, have both
10:38:29JdGordonisnt instert the same as insert next?
10:38:38pondlifeProbably..
10:38:40JdGordonor insert last?
10:39:14amiconnInsert is not the same as inerst next, and also not as insert last
10:39:28JdGordonwhere does insert put it?
10:39:32pondlifeIt's insert after last insertion, isn't it?
10:40:16*JdGordon would actually like to change insert to open the playlist editor and give the user full control on where to insert it
10:40:25pondlifeUrgh, no
10:40:37pondlifeThe browser is the list you want to concentrate on
10:40:40*JdGordon getting used to all these "no"'s :p
10:41:09pondlifeThe playlist editor is weak for tag users troo.
10:41:13pondlifetoo, even
10:41:22pondlifei.e. iTunes people
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10:41:33JdGordonok.. not the playlist editor.. but similar
10:41:42pondlifeSo, code duplication ;p
10:41:54JdGordonno.. remove that code into a plugin
10:42:18pondlifeAnd need a spinup
10:42:29pondlifeI suppose you're probably browsing anyway..
10:42:33pondlifeBut this isn't simplification.
10:42:34JdGordonyour just arguing for the sake of arguing...
10:42:43pondlifeNo I'm not ;)
10:43:00JdGordonwhat im suggesting is just a list with the current playlist and a flashing item for the new track
10:43:44JdGordonwhich wont work so well for dirplay though
10:43:47pondlifeAnyway, anyone got a good reason why we should have Play and Insert options on the context menu to make it clearer, and unify the playing/stopped playlist options?
10:44:10JdGordonshould or shoudlnt?
10:44:22pondlifeShouldn't!
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10:46:52*pondlife will try out http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7911 and see if this helps
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10:51:50markunlemur: good to see you are happy with rockbox :) which player do you have?
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10:58:13GodEater_is our position on the broken nanos likely to change soon ?
11:00
11:01:44pondlifeHas there been any progress?
11:02:15GodEater_no - because no dev owns a broken one
11:02:24 Quit linuxstb_ (Remote closed the connection)
11:02:32GodEater_but I'm getting depressed about the number of people who keep complaining about it on the forums
11:03:07GodEater_and having to keep explaining that the official position is "we're not going to fix it by lowering the clock speed"
11:03:08pondlifeThere's been multiple offers to send one to a dev...
11:03:18GodEater_yes, and no-one has accepted
11:03:23pondlifeAh, ok
11:03:23 Part merbzt
11:03:44GodEater_afaik, the only person with any suspicion of the problem is amiconn
11:04:22pondlifeMaybe jhMikeS or barrywardell could be able to help?
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11:06:11pondlifeAny other PP experts?
11:06:20lemurwhat is PP?
11:06:30pondlifePortalPlayer
11:06:34lemurmarkun: technically I don't have one yet
11:07:13GodEater_pondlife: I guess it's possible for any number of devs to be able to help really - it's just there's a lack of interest in doing so
11:08:16pondlifeMaybe reducing the clockspeed in SVN would act as an incentive ;) (No only joking)
11:08:44GodEater_it would certainly shut up the vocal crew on he forums
11:08:57pondlifeMaybe the front page should say "some 1g nanos!
11:09:01pondlife"
11:09:09GodEater_hahaha
11:09:14pondlifeNo, I'm serious
11:09:16GodEater_"if you're lucky"
11:09:32pondlifeThose who have bad nanos can be told it's not a supported model.
11:09:52GodEater_I don't see that helping the forum problem much...
11:10:09GodEater_"so hang on, once upon a time my Nano was supported, and now it's not?"
11:10:23pondlifeYep!
11:10:28pondlifeThread locked
11:10:33GodEater_I volunteer you to tell people
11:10:39GodEater_and handle the backlash...
11:10:49pondlifeJust a suggestion, you may use if you wish.
11:10:51linuxstbAre there any unsupported builds which run at a lower cpu frequency? Similar to the ipod builds without cpu scaling when that was an issue?
11:11:00pondlifeYes
11:11:06pondlifeI believe there is one
11:11:45pondlifeI don't use the fora much though
11:11:56GodEater_forii ?
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11:12:33pondlifeNo, fora
11:12:42pondlifeforus -> forii
11:12:46pondlifeforum -> fora
11:12:46*linuxstb prefers to speak English and use forums
11:12:50pondlifehaha
11:13:13pondlifeSorry, I have a bad habit there.
11:14:21GodEater_not many peope use "datum, data" these days it's true
11:14:35pondlifeFaunums and florums??
11:15:06*linuxstb points pondlife and GodEater_ to #rockbox-latin
11:15:35GodEater_"datum and data" *are* english....
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11:15:44pondlifeGodEater_: Do you have any better ideas regarding Nanos?
11:16:26pondlifeI mean, how to progress
11:16:39GodEater_roll back the clockspeed change
11:16:46GodEater_until someone shows some interest in fixing the problem
11:17:09GodEater_or as some have suggested - make it configurable
11:17:15pondlifeUrgh, no
11:17:30GodEater_otherwise we're left with a vocal mass of people in the forums complaining on a daily basis
11:17:50pondlifeThat's the worst of both worlds.. complication and people would still run at the fast speed and complain.
11:17:59pondlifeThe n00bs love to OC
11:18:21CaptainSquid83is there any advantage of running the nano at 80mhz instead of 75?
11:18:25pondlifeGive them an option for 100MHz and maybe they'll stop complaining :)
11:18:45pondlifeCaptainSquid83: It's meant to work at 80MHz
11:18:48CaptainSquid83i mean is there an application that runs realtime at 80 which doesn't at 75?
11:18:50GodEater_"Your rockbox Nano, music *and* central heating for your pockets!"
11:18:57 Quit CaptainSquid (Remote closed the connection)
11:19:16pondlife"Now comes with an asbestos case"
11:20:29JdGordonyeah, if it works fine at 75 why not just leave it there instead of 80?
11:21:02GodEater_JdGordon: apparently it's still not "fine" at 75MHz, but the problem crops up much less frequently
11:22:28 Quit petur ("bbl")
11:29:21linuxstbDidn't the Nano use to run at 75MHz without problems? Are we sure that people reporting problems at 75MHz are not experiencing something else? e.g. corrupted disk due to previously running it at 80MHz?
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11:31:36lemurdoes rockbox come with a decent text editor
11:32:23GodEater_define decent
11:32:42lemurwell I overheard people talking about their nanos
11:32:48lemurand nano reminds me of that text editor
11:32:53Zagorlemur: does your player come with a decent keyboard?
11:32:59lemurand I was thinking... hm, how do you edit text on a dap
11:33:17Bagdernano was used as in "iPod nano"
11:33:35lemurI was envisioning an input method whereby you enter characters on at a time by pushing select and then scrolling through a series of letters and symbols
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11:35:09GodEater_lemur: our manual details how our virtual keyboard works
11:35:21lemurSo you do have one?
11:36:03GodEater_lemur: I suggest reading our fine manual...
11:36:21lemurIndeed you suggest it
11:36:41GodEater_it's also one of the IrcGuideLines you're supposed to have read
11:37:08lemuroh poppycock, rules on irc
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11:41:15JdGordonso.. what actually is the problem with the nanos? is it something painfully obvious?
11:43:34CaptainSquid83do you refer to the reason or to the effect with your question?
11:44:21JdGordonthe effect
11:46:27JdGordonah.. "no partition found"? ok my sisters nano definatly isnt doing that :p
11:46:28CaptainSquid83on my nano it's a jerky playback.
11:46:28CaptainSquid831 second is ok, 2 seconds are garbage
11:46:41CaptainSquid83and so on
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11:50:44CaptainSquid83it is really unuable then, so to answer your initial question: yes, it is painfully obvious
11:58:06amiconnGodEater: Lowering the clock doesn't fix the problem for everyone afaik
11:58:47CaptainSquid83i think it's still worth doing it as it fixes the problem for most
11:59:19amiconnImo it would be bad to do this, because it only hides the problem (not even completely) instead of fixing it
12:00
12:00:04amiconnAll other PP targets don't have a problem with running at 80MHz (or even higher for PP5022), so it's almost for sure ata controller related
12:00:27amiconnSomething we don't do right which the HDDs don't care about, but the flash disk in the nano does
12:01:12amiconnThere already *is* a hack in the ata driver to make it work on nano which shouldn't be there
12:01:23CaptainSquid83the problem could still be researched while the official builds have the workaround
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12:04:52*Soap_ is one of the people who still has glitches (only when the player is hot) even before the 80 MHz commit.
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12:07:13*amiconn summons safetydan
12:12:54LanglyCould you manage to play any video on a photo ipod with rockbox?
12:14:32*linuxstb could
12:16:33linuxstbamiconn: Do you have any idea what frequency Apple's firmware clocks the CPU at on the Nano?
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12:18:26markunLangly: having trouble with it?
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12:19:24David_Umm, I've just installed Rockbox today and all was going well- but I've changed my theme and now I can't see anything. It's as if I have a black font on a black background or something. Anyone know anything about it?
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12:19:42markunlemur: yes, there is a text editor, but I don't know how nice it is. You could try the rockbox simulator to find out.
12:23:50linuxstbDavid_: I assume you're asking how you can fix it?
12:24:47David_Yes, I think I may need to just change my theme again for it to fix itself but I can't read my way through the menus to get there. I'm using a Gigabeat F series.
12:25:13linuxstbYou can attach it to your computer and delete (or edit) the .rockbox/config.cfg file with a text editor
12:25:42linuxstbOr you can hold a key whilst booting to reset your settings, I don't know what that button is on the Gigabeat though.
12:25:59David_Deleting the config will just reset the theme?
12:26:14David_Will it reset anything else?
12:30:37David_Nevermind, cheers.
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12:43:01amiconnlinuxstb: I would think the OF runs it at 80MHz on demand.
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12:46:25linuxstbamiconn: How would you reply to this forum post? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=11504.msg102518;topicseen#msg102518
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12:54:33amiconn(1) The chip is definitely not overclocked. (2) It was *not* just the clock frequency which was changed. We also do the pll setup correctly now
12:55:24amiconn(3) No other target, be it PP5020 or PP5022 based, has a problem when running at 80MHz
12:57:03linuxstbBut aren't the Coldfire chips specified to around 140MHz, but are only stable in our targets at a lower speed?
12:57:58amiconnThe 5249's in the irivers are marked with a "120" on them, and the 5250 is specced 120MHz by default
12:58:09amiconnAnd we're running them at 124MHz...
12:58:53amiconnThis is done for timer precision.
13:00
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14:22:52hcsI face a dilemma with ADX. It can be easily fixed to read small chunks at a time, but it relies on regular backwards seeking.
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14:35:00linuxstbWhy is that?
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14:42:05*linuxstb reads the wikipedia article about adx and discovers the looping feature...
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14:44:02hcsyeah, I would have said it but I was away
14:44:26linuxstbSo how does looping work? Looking at the source it seems you're abusing the playlist repeat settings... ;)
14:44:43hcsto toggle it, yeah
14:45:02hcsit loops back to some point in the file, not necessarily to the beginning
14:45:23hcswith repeat one it loops indefinitely, which I think is a reasonable behavior
14:45:37linuxstbSo ideally we need to tell the buffering code to try to never unbuffer an ADX track, if looping is enabled?
14:45:47hcsideally
14:45:48mignishIs it a common problem for only some of the artists to appear in the artists list?
14:46:08mignish...even when they appear on the regular iPod software?
14:46:21markunlinuxstb: ideally only keep everything after the loop start in buffer :)
14:46:32hcsmarkun: good point
14:46:50linuxstbmignish: Rockbox is independent to Apple's software. It reads the artist information from the tags in your music files, not from the database created by itunes.
14:46:59hcsat the moment I'll just have it read a frame at a time so at least it will work, though it might pause somewhere
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14:48:15mignishlinuxstb: That is weird. When I RockBox is not installed all of the artists show up correctly. All of the songs have tags, so they should be showing up. Could it have been a problem when Rockbox created the database then?
14:49:06linuxstbmignish: How do you know all the songs have tags? And what kind of tags are they (and what format audio files)?
14:49:24mignishBecause I edit them with kid3
14:49:26linuxstbmignish: Also, if you select one of the "untagged" files, does the artist name appear in the While Playing Screen (WPS)?
14:49:36mignishi'll try that.
14:49:56linuxstbThat should tell you if the problem is a) Rockbox can't read the tags at all; b) Something went wrong with the database creation
14:50:58mignishOh yeah... i forgot. I have a ton of artists missing from the list but when I goto untagged, there are only like five songs. There should be a very long list being there are more then half of the artists missing from the list.
14:51:31mignish..it doesn't show the artist name.
14:52:19mignishSo will Rockbox ignore the tags I make using gtkPod?
14:52:39linuxstbIt depends if gtkpod edits the tags in the files, or just the itunes database.
14:52:45mignishok
14:53:18mignishI'll look into this more and mess around with the tags. Thanks for the help.
14:53:21PaulJambut even if rockbox fails to read the tags, the songs should appear in the "untagged" section.
14:53:36mignishThat's what I thought.
14:53:54linuxstbmignish: And you're using id3 tags, not something odd like APEv2?
14:54:54mignishUnder "albums" many of the missing artists are listed there. It's odd.... Yes i'm using id3 tags... (k)id3 is a KDE app for editing id3 tags.
14:55:12mignishi don't think I can edit or add any other tags using kid3
14:56:03linuxstbThere's also a setting in Rockbox to set id3v1/id3v2 preference - you should check that is correct for your files.
14:56:33mignishI was wondering about that.
14:56:55mignishI usually make v1 and v2 but I'll see if it makes a diff.
14:57:07PaulJamlinuxstb: that setting was removed some time ago
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14:57:16mignishOh.... I think i just realized the prob
14:57:17JRoT|Stagemy sansa keeps crashing :(
14:57:23mignishI'm using ogg files.
14:57:28mignishon many of the songs
14:57:34linuxstbPaulJam: It was? I remember talk about removing it, but didn't know it had actually gone...
14:57:49mignishRockbox is supposed to play ogg files right?
14:58:00mignishand flac?
14:58:21krazykityes
14:58:34krazykitit plays vorbis and flac among several other codecs.
14:58:36JRoT|Stagesomehow since a week all update from rockbox keeps crashing on my sansa
14:58:53linuxstbPaulJam: Thanks - it was removed in September...
14:59:14mignishWoah, ogg vorbis uses only v2 tags... that could be the prob!
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14:59:35linuxstbmignish: Rockbox ignores id3v2 tags in vorbis files. You should use proper Vorbis comments.
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15:00:22linuxstbJRoT: Are you running the very latest "current build" ? There have been lots of bugfixes for the Sansa playback problems over the last few days.
15:00:25 Quit jmspeex_ (Remote closed the connection)
15:00:31mignishWhat are the proper vorbis comments?
15:00:46linuxstb"vorbis comments" are the native tagging format for Ogg files.
15:01:01mignishok
15:01:10mignishI'll see if I can find something for editing them.
15:01:14JRoTlinuxstb i downloaded the version from serveral hours ago
15:01:39mignishThanks for the help guys.. you cleared up a lot of confusion.
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15:04:32JRoTbefore all the fixes for sansa my player worked just fine
15:04:45JRoTnow it has many changes and it keeps crashing
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15:06:47linuxstb"keeps crashing" doesn't give us much to go on... What are you doing when it crashes? Exactly how does it crash?
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15:08:01JRoTi listen to mp3 music files
15:08:12JRoTand i skip serveral of them then it crashes
15:08:22JRoTbut sometimes also all of a sunden
15:08:43JRoTthen there is a error on the screen or i don't see anything
15:10:15PaulJamwith "error on the screen", do you mean screen corruption or an actual error message?
15:10:30linuxstbIf you go into the System menu, then Debug, then Info, what Rockbox version number is shown?
15:11:12linuxstbSorry, replace "Debug, then Info", with "Rockbox info"
15:11:18JRoTr15492
15:13:25JRoTwill put latest version on 15493 and test again
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15:15:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:16:08JRoTand it crashed again
15:16:27JRoTundefined instruction at 000613d0 (0)
15:18:21JRoTanyone?
15:19:30JRoTversion r15493-071106
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15:21:27tuplanollaJRoT: did you just extract the new version over the old one?
15:21:38tuplanollaor did you remove the old before extracting the new?
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15:22:24JRoTextract the new one over the old one
15:22:29JRoTreplacing everything
15:22:34tuplanollatry removing the old first
15:23:27JRoTbtw, i don't wanna flame or something, but i hate the new keymap
15:24:04lanceguys, do you know if there any progress done on the rockbox fm tuner for iriver?
15:24:26JRoTbut if i remove he rockbox folder
15:24:36JRoTi lose al my themes
15:24:40JRoTand settings
15:24:46tuplanollayea, but you can download them again
15:24:51tuplanollaactually
15:24:58tuplanollait's better to rename the folder
15:25:14tuplanollaso rename the .rockbox to .rock_old and then extract
15:25:39tuplanollaif the new one doesn't work, you can rename the .rock_old and use the old one insteal
15:25:43tuplanollainstead*
15:25:46JRoTk
15:28:18amiconntuplanolla: Removing an old build is not necessary, overwriting will do. Deleting the .rockbox dir deletes settings, plugin settings, hiscores etc
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15:29:18JRoTindeed, but i renamed, will test agian but i think it will give the same proble m
15:31:56JRoTi doesn't crash so fasr
15:31:58JRoT-s
15:32:40JRoTcould it get by serveral settings?
15:32:44hcslostlogic: I still say the bug is in whatever is freezing up. If the failure to buffer resulted in an error returned from request_buffer then it'd be my fault.
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15:36:34JRoTcould it crash thanks to a theme?
15:37:23tuplanollamaybe
15:38:05linuxstbJRoT: What playback settings have you changed from the default? e.g. have you enabled crossfade?
15:38:12JRoTyes
15:38:20JRoTcrossfade
15:38:22JRoTshufle
15:38:29JRoTand repeat all
15:38:48linuxstbYou could test if crossfade is the issue. i.e. re-enable it, see if the problems return, then disable it again...
15:40:16JRoTi just put latest version on it, in a new rockbox folder renamed the old one
15:40:26JRoTand untill now it didn't crash
15:40:41JRoTwith crossfade shuffle and repeat all on
15:41:10JRoTand now it does
15:41:16JRoTit gave music
15:41:22JRoTand now it's al lot of noise
15:41:26JRoTand cracking
15:41:50JRoTno error
15:42:09JRoTand when i hitted powerbutton it stopped
15:42:23Langlyhmm
15:42:24JRoTand the player crashed complete, but the screen is still on wps
15:42:53Langlyrockbox isnt playing some files on my ipod, but the files themselves are ok, winamp plays them from the drive when connected to the pc
15:43:04Langlycant figure out why
15:43:11linuxstbLangly: What kind of files are they?
15:43:30linuxstbAnd what do you mean by "isnt playing" - what exactly happens when you try to play one?
15:43:52Langlystarts to load, shows the file name, skips to the next song
15:44:19Langlymp3
15:44:43linuxstbWhat kind of ipod?
15:44:58JRoTlinuxstb do you have any idea what is wrong with sansa
15:46:11linuxstbJRoT: Only that there are currently lots issues with playback, so I'm assuming you're just seeing those. lostlogic is the main person who has been working on it recently, but I guess he's not online at the moment.
15:46:31Langly1st gen
15:46:38linuxstb1st gen what/
15:46:39linuxstb?
15:46:46JRoTk thnx linuxstb
15:46:53linuxstbThere are 3 1st gen ipods..
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15:48:01linuxstbLangly: I mean is it the original 1st generation ipod, or the 1st gen mini, or the 1st gen Nano?
15:48:18Langlyok wtf now the song works after fiddleing with the playlist settings
15:48:29Langlyoriginal 1st gen ipod
15:49:36Langlylol now I cant get to menu or any other song
15:50:04Langlyand now its skipping that song again
15:50:17tuplanollaLangly: what version of rockbox?
15:50:32Langlylatests
15:52:59 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
15:53:23Langlybah I need sleep
15:53:29Langlyill have to deal with this later
15:55:28Langlythe playlist works, but under files its not showing my files where they should be
15:56:01n1swherever you put them
15:56:27mignishA great tag editor for linux... it's in the repos: http://easytag.sourceforge.net/
15:56:34mignishJust wanted to share
15:59:18Langlyn1s no shit, there were there before, now they dont show anymore, just one sub folder
15:59:30Langlybut the playlist made to access them still works, as does the playlist maker
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16:00:13n1sLangly: then they must be there maybe try to change the "show files" setting?
16:02:24mignishDoes anyone know how I would go about changing the settings for which version of id3 tags are read for Rockbox?
16:03:34Langlyfolder music shows no files and one folder, folder music from the pc has everything
16:03:34BagderI believe that option was removed
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16:04:07n1smignish: yep that setting is gone
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16:04:32Bagdermignish: v1 tags are silly anyway
16:04:46n1sit now defaults to prioritize v2 and only reads v1 if the v2 isn't present
16:05:02Langlyalso when ever I try and add to playlist I get "no playlists, but one does exist I can play from it
16:07:03mignishI thought v1 are silly also
16:07:15mignishthanks for the info :-)
16:08:36Langlythere we go
16:08:40Langlysome context menu
16:08:54Langlyhad show files playlist/all that wasnt an option in main settings
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16:09:43hcsLangly: that option is in general settings->file view->show files
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16:15:58pondlifeHmm, wacky "backlight" behaviour on the simulator today...
16:16:24pondlifeThe remote display keeps lighting up and dimming.
16:18:36pondlifeWhich remotes have backlights anyway?
16:20:04mignishJust curious, has anyone had problems with their ogg vorbis files not being listed under "artists" or anything like that?
16:20:48markunmignish: not me
16:20:57markunbut I have them all tagged
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16:21:19markunpondlife: my H120 has a remote with a backlight
16:21:54pondlifemarkun: Does the current build cause the backlight to trigger during playback, perchance?
16:22:01PaulJammignish: have you tried if it helps to delete the database files (*.tcd) from the .rockbox directory and re-initialize the database?
16:22:16markunpondlife: can't check now (and haven't update rockbox on my iriver in months)
16:22:27pondlifeJust wondered, it's probably a sim thing
16:22:29IvoBurkartHi. I'd like to ask for wiki write permissions to upload fmr presets
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16:23:45mignishI'll give it a shot... I've uninstalled Rockbox once and re-built the db but still had the same results. I'm giving that a shot though.
16:24:02mignishthanks
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16:25:26linuxstbIvoBurkart: Done
16:25:45 Quit bluey_ (Client Quit)
16:25:48IvoBurkartthanks very much
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16:26:33IvoBurkartare the collection zips done automatically?
16:26:35MerthsoftI just put the latest build on my H20, and when I try to play a song, it keeps saying "Codec Failure", it did it with yesterday's a little bit too.
16:26:49Nico_Plostlogic: nice job on the wiki page :)
16:27:32*pondlife looks
16:29:53lostlogichcs: yeah, we should return an error message
16:29:57lostlogicNico_P: thanks
16:30:08Nico_PI learned things :)
16:30:13pondlifeMe too
16:30:22hcslostlogic: In any case, I'm reworking it now so that won't be the issue
16:30:32pondlifeWould it be better to remove the obsolete stuff completely, it'll be in the history...
16:30:38lostlogichcs: cool.
16:30:51lostlogicpondlife: probably, but I wasn't 'brave' enough to.
16:30:54LanglyMPEG-1 Layer 3 160 kbps 44100 Hz with gspot, no reason that file shouldnt play
16:31:50pondlifeIt's gone :)
16:33:14linuxstbeigma: Is the encryption used by the m:robe 500 original firmware documented anywhere? I found a .exe tool that seems to work, but no source...
16:33:15 Quit CaptainSquid83 ("Miranda IM!")
16:33:41eigmaone sec...
16:34:27eigmaI think it's documented on www.mrobe.org/forum one some long-lost thread
16:34:55mignishIf the file extension of a file was in caps would that make a difference in Rockbox?
16:35:06pondlifeHmm, Flyspray advanced search for Open bugs seems to be including closed bugs
16:35:09pondlifehttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/index.php?tasks=&project=1&string=&type=2&sev=&due=&dev=&cat=11&status=&date=0
16:35:19eigmaI can give you an overview, but I may get the details wrong - I haven't had to encode/decode an image in a while
16:35:34linuxstbeigma: Do you have any plans for an easy install method for the mrobe? IIUC, the current situation is that you need to install a hacked version of the original firmware?
16:35:37pondlifeOops, my mistake
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16:35:55amiconnpondlife: All LCD remotes have backlight. In fact all targets except Ondio have backlight (and on Ondio it's prepared on the PCB)
16:35:59eigmalinuxstb: to my knowledge, we don't currently have any other way of getting the OF to execute our code
16:36:02linuxstbeigma: It's OK - I was just asking from a more theoretical point of view, i.e. if it's public knowledge.
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16:36:15eigmalinuxstb: nor is the m:robe port nearly mature enough imho, but that's a different topic
16:36:46eigmalinuxstb: yes, it's been published
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16:37:45linuxstbeigma: Am I right in thinking that the "exploited" firmware file that I've seen on various forums has been modified (i.e. third-party code added), or is it a standard (i.e. unmodified) firmware file where someone has found an exploit?
16:38:27eigmalinuxstb: iirc, it basically happened like this:
16:38:59eigmalinuxstb: shirour figured out that the firmware uses a version of libpng (or was it libjpeg) that had a published vulnerability
16:39:37eigmalinuxstb: he tried to exploit it, but gave up after a bit. he patched a few bytes in an OF image to get the remix feature to execute code, and that's the modified image we've been working on ever since.
16:40:17eigmalinuxstb: on a related note, I have jtag on my player, so I seldom use the exploit - for the masses, though, the modified firmware is the only way atm.
16:40:36linuxstbDo you what happens when the OF is installed? Is it written to flash rom, or stored on the disk?
16:40:37eigmalinuxstb: I think the term "exploited firmware", which can be seen in a few places like the wiki, is a misnomer in this case
16:41:24eigmawe don't know very much about the firmware update process. from what I reversed way back then, the PC app sends some SCSI control codes to the USB MSD device to check the current firmware version and upload the new image
16:41:46eigmathe new firmware image seems to be written to disk after this first stage
16:42:01Bagderwell ums is scsi over usb basically, isn't it?
16:42:29eigmayes; in this particular case, it uses some SCSI control codes that are "vendor-defined" by the scsi standards
16:42:34Bagderaha
16:42:43lostlogicNico_P: what do you think about adding this before the loop in bufgetdata so that it won't get ugly on hcs? size = MIN(size,RINGBUF_SUB(buffer_len,h->ridx)+GUARD_BUFSIZE);
16:43:00eigmathen, the player reboots (you are asked to make sure you're on AC power), and then the player tells you to wait patiently (presumably it's flashing, since this process takes on the order of minutes)
16:43:53eigmait reboots again, and you're in the new firmware
16:44:11linuxstbYes, that sounds like a flash upgrade - especially the AC power bit.
16:44:13eigmaso, from what I can tell, two-stage with firmware on the HDD in-between
16:44:50eigmaa little bit of info on the firmware images: http://www.mrobe.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1246
16:46:51linuxstbSo currently, how is Rockbox booted? Do you have to first boot into the original firmware, and then do something to start Rockbox?
16:46:57eigmaand a python script that demonstrates it all: http://www.mrobe.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10692
16:47:02lostlogicNico_P: never mind, that is not the root of the problem.
16:47:27Nico_Plostlogic: ok I can stop thinking then :p
16:47:30*Nico_P is tired
16:48:49eigmakkurbjun, JdGordon and all other users must: install the modified firmware, replace an SVG file on the HDD with a small first-stage loader, place rockbox.mr500 in the root directory, then start up their player, and choose the "Remix" feature.
16:49:34Nico_Plostlogic: what is hcs' problem?
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16:49:53eigmathe SVG file is loaded into RAM by the Remix feature, shirour's modification JMPs to the contents of the file, this bootloader uses hooks in the OF (fopen, fread, etc.) to load rockbox.mr500 into RAM, and JMPs there
16:50:19eigmathe reason this has to be two-stage is that this remix svg file can't be too large.. on the order of 10K from what I can tell
16:50:38lostlogicNico_P: his problem is that he requests _logs_ of data and then doesn't get it and is stuck in a lon g(infinite?) loop waiting for it
16:50:55pondlifelogs or lots?
16:51:02lostlogicNico_P: revision: http://test.lostlogicx.com/transfer/rockbox/20071106_do_not_freeze.patch
16:51:05lostlogiclots
16:51:13lostlogicI type good.
16:51:17linuxstbeigma: I think the normal approach on such targets would be to append a Rockbox bootloader (basically a stripped-down Rockbox, containing LCD, button, ATA drivers) to the original firmware image, and then modify the first instruction in the original firmware to branch to our bootloader.
16:51:56Nico_Plostlogic: oh yes I remember thinking it could be a problem
16:52:01linuxstbOur bootloader could either return to the original firmware if a button is being held, or load Rockbox from disk.
16:52:09eigmawill keep in mind; however we are much more focused toward maturing the functionality of the port than putting Rockbox in flash. we haven't really toyed with the "Rockbox in flash" idea at all
16:52:20Nico_Plostlogic: what is requesting all this data?
16:52:40hcsNico_P: ADX codec
16:53:00hcsand some others, which may request 64 to 300k
16:53:04hcs(NSF and SPC)
16:53:39lostlogicADX
16:53:44Nico_Pbut if atomic audio doesn't wrap, providing that much data in one go shouldn't be a problem, should it?
16:53:54lostlogicit's made safe on NSF/SPC by the atomic audio type
16:54:02eigmain fact, I went through a pretty big scare over the summer when I erased a sector of the flash by accident. jtag saved my player's life. I think it's prudent for anyone who is playing with the flash to have jtag access, and at the moment I'm the only one.
16:54:05lostlogicADX is not small enough to make atomic in any sense of 'small enough'
16:54:27pondlifeHow big is lots? Bigger than the buffer?
16:54:35hcspotentially
16:54:38pondlifeAh, ok
16:54:41Nico_Poh
16:55:12hcsnot usually, though
16:55:25amiconneigma: It doesn't have to be rockbox in flash, but the rockbox bootloader, appended to the OF, in flash, which loads rockbox.mr500 from disk
16:55:40linuxstbeigma: It's not really that much of a risk - flashing the Rockbox bootloader is required for a lot of Rockbox ports.
16:55:48amiconnThat's how things work e.g. on iriver h1x0 and h300
16:55:55Nico_Plostlogic: the problem is that "h->filerem > 0 && (avail == 0 || avail < size)" is always false?
16:56:06Nico_Perr true
16:56:32pondlifeWhy do you need the avail == 0 check in there..?
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16:56:42Nico_Ppondlife: for the case where size == 0
16:56:53eigmaperhaps; I don't know if this is the case for other players, but a botched flash definitely means a bricked m:robe. that may not be frightening to developers, but as a user, I would be terrified.
16:57:18pondlifeIt's true for H1x0 and H3x0
16:57:23linuxstbYou're just hooking into the original firmware's upgrade process, so it's no riskier than updating the original firmware.
16:57:38Nico_Ppondlife: because if size == 0, avail < size doesn't make sense
16:57:49linuxstbOf course, care needs to be taken to make sure the bootloader is stable, and dual-boot works reliably.
16:57:53amiconnOn the old archoses we're even brave enough to replace the whole flash contents :)
16:58:07eigmaI don't mean so much "failed flashing process" as e.g., "bad SDRAM initialization in rockbox bootloader resulting in no boot"
16:58:16amiconn(it's optional though, and not all individual units have in-circuit flashable roms)
16:58:58linuxstbAs an example, for my Logik MP3 player, the _very_ first thing (in asm) that my code does is to check a GPIO port for a button press. If the button is pressed, it branches back to the OF - zero hardware initialisation is done (or needed).
16:59:11amiconneigma: The rockbox bootloader for the irivers has several safety features to make failed boot very unlikely
16:59:58amiconnYou can boot into the OF with a button - and even if that doesn't work, there's the safety cookie
17:00
17:00:21eigmahrm.. it's slightly more complicated on the m:robe, because the remote hangs off a UART, but given enough safety measures....
17:00:52amiconnHow are the main buttons hooked up?
17:01:05eigmathere is only one, the power button - that is indeed on a GPIO
17:01:27amiconnhmm
17:01:33amiconnIs there a hold switch?
17:01:36lostlogicNico_P: yeah
17:01:37eigmaon the remote
17:01:50lostlogicNico_P: I have somefin in de werks
17:02:06eigmathe only other input device is the touch screen, but that hangs off SPI and is even more work to get going than the remote
17:02:07Nico_Plostlogic: could it be because the file hasn't finished buffering but the codec makes the request with size == 0?
17:02:41amiconnHmm. How is the hold switch hooked up?
17:02:45Nico_Phcs: how reproduceable/frequent is the problem?
17:03:08Nico_Ppondlife: do you still have the glitch you reported yesterday?
17:03:14eigmathe hold switch belongs to the remote and can be read through the UART
17:03:19pondlifeNot that I've heard
17:03:32amiconnhmm, ok
17:03:34pondlifeI've hardly listened today though, busy.
17:03:49amiconnI guess that means uart support in the bootloader would be mandatory
17:04:06Nico_PI think I have a reliable way of reproducing it
17:04:07amiconnDoes the mrobe have a hardware reset button?
17:04:14eigmanot that I know of
17:04:18eigmawell
17:04:25eigmathat's not quite true
17:04:44hcsNico_P: yes, with the current ADX player I have a set of 3 ADXs that consistently fail at the start of the third.
17:04:50eigmathere is a key combination on the remote that asserts a delayed system reset signal - without any software intervention
17:05:17amiconnAh, so the safety cookie method might be possible on mrobe as well
17:05:26hcsNico_P: I'm just now readying the better behaved ADX codec, want me to hold off so you can take a look at this issue?
17:05:27lostlogicNico_P: I believe it's because the file hasn't finished buffering and the codec makes the request with size = filesize, I can't seem to think of why that loop becomes infinite exactly, but I _know_ that it wouldn't become inifinite if the maximum amount of data requested beyond that currently available was less than CHUNK
17:05:43eigmai.e. hold Heart+Mode+Play, and the remote will raise a signal on the connector to high. if that signal is high for 2 seconds, everything gets reset.
17:05:57hcslostlogic: it may be that stupid watermark setting, I've removed that
17:05:59Nico_Plostlogic: I'm not sure that's the right fix
17:06:05eigmacan you describe the "safety cookie"
17:06:22Nico_Phcs: could you send me your files? is the problem apparent on the sim?
17:06:38hcsNico_P: I could, and I'll check
17:07:17lostlogicNico_P: we don't guarantee more than that to codecs, so we shouldn't sweat trying to provide it, it's a bad experience for th eclients regardless of whether it's the right fix for this problem.
17:08:09Nico_Pwhat do you mean by "bad experience"?
17:08:26hcsfreezing
17:08:41Nico_Phcs: then could I have your files?:)
17:08:51hcsyes, uploading now
17:08:55Nico_Pthanks
17:09:41amiconneigma: One of the first thing crt0.S on coldfire does is checking for a magic value in iram (the cookie). If it's present, something went wrong in the previous boot attempt, and the startup code immediately calls the original firmware. If it's not present, it sets the cookie
17:09:54lostlogicNico_P: if a client hasta wait for longer than <filechunkread> for a call to bufgetdata or bufread, that's bad.
17:10:04lostlogicwe should never make them wait tha tlong
17:10:19amiconnThen it executes the normal bootloader code, which checks buttons, loads firmware from disk etc. It only resets the cookie immediately before jumping to the selected firmware
17:10:34Nico_Plostlogic: are there codecs that *need* more than chunksize?
17:10:43eigmathe idea being that IRAM is preserved across system reset?
17:10:45lostlogicNSF, SPC, SID
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17:10:59Nico_Plostlogic: then aren't they going to break?
17:11:18hcsNico_P: they can buffer it internally
17:11:20lostlogicthey're TYPE_ATOMIC, we can handle that
17:11:27amiconnSo if something goes wrong between setting and resetting the cookie (bootloader freezes, buttons not working etc etc), you can push the reset button (with a straightened paper clip), and on the next boot the bootloader will detect the cookie
17:11:32lostlogicor they could change to doing that and stop being TYPE_ATOMIC
17:11:55amiconn...and boot into the OF immediately, where you can access the disk, reflash firmware etc
17:12:11amiconnYes, iram contents is preserved across resets
17:12:15Nico_PI was afraid ADX might need more than the chunksize, but then it's probably ok
17:12:37amiconnI would be very surprised to find a CPU that clears iram on hardware reset
17:12:44eigmaamiconn: I would feel better after confirming that on the m:robe
17:13:01amiconnWell, *you* should be able to do that with jtag afaiu...
17:13:49eigmamy jtag sessions don't seem to survive across resets.. I'll have to do it another way; nevertheless
17:14:37eigmaheck, let me try right now
17:15:22amiconnWhat we're doing on coldfire is in firmware/target/coldfire/crt0.S, lines 109..124, and bootloader/main.c, the calls to __reset_cookie()
17:15:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:16:18amiconnMaybe it would help m:robe development if the installation process gets simplified
17:16:47amiconnNot every potential dev might be willing to perform all the steps you mentioned just to boot rockbox...
17:17:15amiconnIirc the bootloader was one of the first steps on iriver H1x0...
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17:23:03ApotheoZHi, I've got a Strange problem with my Sansa, I'm in the good chan for talking about it ?
17:23:47markunApotheoZ: yes, what's the problem?
17:23:54ApotheoZThank's
17:23:55ApotheoZSo
17:24:05ApotheoZI had try to play with Rockboy on my sansa
17:24:14ApotheoZIt was working realy great.
17:24:21ApotheoZBut, after that
17:24:29ApotheoZMy key was changed.
17:24:47lostlogicthey changed the keymaps
17:24:54ApotheoZHum
17:24:58ApotheoZya
17:25:16ApotheoZ(Sorry, i've some difficulty with english >_<)
17:25:40ApotheoZDoes anyone know a solution ?
17:26:07hcsIs anyone running Ubuntu 7.10 with the simulator working? Since I upgraded I'm getting nothing but segfaults when trying to play audio.
17:28:10ApotheoZno one ?
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17:29:10lostlogicApotheoZ: I think that they keymap change was deliberate.
17:29:17lostlogicApotheoZ: does it make rockboy unuseable fo ryou?
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17:30:10ApotheoZI'd try old version of Rockbox, and the problem is staying.
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17:31:07lostlogicApotheoZ: you loaded the same version you'd been using before it became a problem and the problem continues?
17:31:12eigmaamiconn: hmm, I'm having trouble because I can't halt the CPU from the first instruction.. so the OF clobbers the IRAM before I get the chance to see if the cookie stayed there.
17:31:56ApotheoZWell : I load an old version of Rockbox, and the keymap stay false.
17:32:33hcsNico_P, lostlogic: I've committed the fixed ADX codec, r15494, I'll be doing more testing the rest of the day but it seems to do what it should.
17:32:41lostlogiccan you rephrase "stay false"?
17:32:54ApotheoZhum
17:33:12lostlogichcs: sweet, I'm about to commit something that would have made it work the old way, if you're interested in temporarily reverting it and trying it out
17:33:25markunlostlogic: it's possible to change the keys in rockboy, right?
17:33:41ApotheoZWhen I push the "Power" button, It's stop playing, an go back to the menu.
17:33:41markunI forgot which file to delete to get it back
17:33:49hcslostlogic: revert it in the repository?
17:34:04ApotheoZThe "down key" doesn't work right too
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17:34:16markunApotheoZ: I think I know the problem, one seconde..
17:34:25lostlogicmarkun: ah, I didn't know that, phew!
17:34:47Nico_Ppondlife: looks like the glitch was always there
17:34:47lostlogichcs: probably just locally, unless it's some kind of performance killer
17:35:00pondlifeHmm, reproducible on pre-MoB code?
17:35:00lostlogichcs: I'm just curious if my change will make it work the way you wanted it to
17:35:06Nico_Ppondlife: it appears so
17:35:17pondlifeIs it MP3 only?
17:35:20lostlogicyay, I didn't do it!
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17:35:41Nico_Phmm actually I'm not exactly sure of what I'm saying. one last test should confirm
17:35:44markunApotheoZ: you can try to delete the file: .rockbox/rockboy/options
17:35:53Nico_Ppondlife: I've tested it only on MP3 so far
17:35:55hcslostlogic: it really shouldn't hurt performance, except that things might have to rebuffer when seeking backwards, but it's simpler this way
17:36:12lostlogichcs: coo'
17:36:14hcslostlogic: in any case I'll check it out with your modification
17:36:18lostlogicthanks!
17:36:33ApotheoZDoesn't work.
17:36:53ApotheoZI had try to completly remove the rockbox folder
17:37:05ApotheoZAnd to past an old version in remplacement.
17:37:16ApotheoZDoesn't give any result.
17:37:34markunand it used to work fine with this old version?
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17:38:07lostlogichcs: http://test.lostlogicx.com/transfer/rockbox/20071106_better_pre-read_checks.patch
17:38:07ApotheoZcan you reprase you sentence please : I don't understand it.
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17:38:24lostlogicNico_P: ^^ what do you think about this? I'm a fan.
17:39:16markunApotheoZ: "And to past an old version in remplacement." -> did you use this "old version" before when it worked?
17:39:31Nico_Ppondlife: the glitch appears to be present in r15273, which is pre-MoB
17:39:52ApotheoZyes.
17:39:53pondlifeCan you put your recipe and a report onto Flyspray?
17:39:54markunApotheoZ: and did you try in the rockbox menu: options -> Set Keys (buggy)
17:39:59Nico_Pok
17:40:05pondlifeI can't repro at will
17:40:06ApotheoZno.
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17:40:19markunApotheoZ: you could try it
17:41:01markunI can't really explain why it doesn't work if you completely remove .rockbox and then unzip an old version which used to work fine
17:41:16ApotheoZdoesn't work.
17:41:32Domonokycould someone (badger, zagor ? .. ) move this zip: domonoky/rbutilqt-v1.0.3.zip">http://b23.org/~domonoky/rbutilqt-v1.0.3.zip to the download server ?
17:41:35Nico_Ppondlife: recipe is play an MP3 alone (playlist->insert) and let it finish after seeking to a point near the end. then start a new playlist
17:41:39markunApotheoZ: which language(s) do you speak?
17:41:52ApotheoZFrench =)
17:42:01Domonokyand also it would be nice if someone could build a new release of rbutil for linux and mac.. :-)
17:42:12markunApotheoZ: "doesn't work." what happened when you tried it?
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17:42:28Nico_Ppondlife: it has to be a file that ends abruptly, ie without a blank
17:42:42ApotheoZI had try to reconfigure into the rockboy menu the keymap.
17:42:55markunand what happened?
17:42:58ApotheoZIt has no effect.
17:43:08markunno effect? wow
17:43:11markunlet me try it
17:43:12ApotheoZI can't quit a menu with the "power key" too.
17:43:16pondlifeNico_P: So no silence at the end at all?
17:43:25pondlifeIs it tag related?
17:44:01Nico_Ppondlife: yeah, no silence. Maybe a *very* short one isn't a problem but you'll hear the glitch better without a silence. I have no idea what it could be related to
17:44:08markunApotheoZ: changing keys works fine here on my gigabeat
17:44:36ApotheoZI'd solve the problem !
17:44:41markunhow?
17:44:41ApotheoZ\o/
17:44:51ApotheoZJust paste an older version
17:45:17ApotheoZI'd past the 2007-10-23's version.
17:46:08ApotheoZBut thank's a lot for your help.
17:46:20hcslostlogic: seems to clear up the issue I was just now experiencing
17:46:55eigmaIRAM == ARM's TCM, right?
17:47:04markunApotheoZ: but it's not good if you can never upgrade rockbox without breaking rockbox :(
17:47:12markunbreaking rockboy
17:47:25lostlogichcs: cool, I'll commit −− it makes the code more maintainable any way.
17:47:33ApotheoZhum.
17:47:45ApotheoZI'm gonna try to update it, in 1 week.
17:48:25ApotheoZor 2.
17:48:48Nico_Plostlogic: could you wait a couple minutes before committing so I can read the diff?
17:49:00ApotheoZSo, I'm gonna see if Rockbox change my keymap, or if rockboy it guilty.
17:49:50lostlogicNico_P: shoot, already hit go −− can always revert :)
17:50:15lostlogiceigma: tcm?
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17:50:43Nico_Plostlogic: in "if (size == 0 || size > h->available + h->filerem)", why use h->available and not avail?
17:51:19Nico_Ph->available is bigger than avail in most cases
17:51:35lostlogicNico_P: hmm, you're right, that should be avail.
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17:53:04Nico_Papart from that I like it. I had tried to unify those parts in buf{read,getdata}, but never found an elegant way, so thanks :)
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17:53:52lostlogicNico_P: I figured you had −− there's a little bit of 'extra' logic in there to make it apply equally to both read methods, but I'm ok with that for the code simplicity in not having most of the logic duplicated.
17:55:04*lostlogic runs quick sanity checks that avail works (no reason it wouldn't)
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17:55:59Nico_Pthat value is basically what's useful in the handle
17:56:25lostlogicNico_P: yeah −− my head had told me they were the same as I wrote that, but that was pre-MoB thinking.
17:56:26grdWe now have gradient line selector. Wouldn't it be nice to have line selector with slightly rounded corners? Just as an eye candy?
17:56:53hcsooh, and specular
17:56:58Nico_Plostlogic: I know it can become confusing at times ;)
17:57:37Nico_Pat times I had to draw the handle's buffer to see things clearly
17:58:25lostlogicNico_P: yeah, I'm familiar with the practice of drawing buffer wraps and suchlike
18:00
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18:06:33Nico_Ppondlife: FS #8102
18:06:55pondlifeThanks, hope to look at it later
18:07:04pondlifeSorry - Real Life Busyness..
18:10:24Nico_Plostlogic: I'm having trouble keeping track... are there bugs I should focus on right now?
18:10:39Nico_Papart from FS #8092 :p
18:10:45*preglow wonders if we should bother supporting 32khz voice clips
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18:16:25n1spreglow: is the voice codec currently loaded into a static buffer or is that allocated?
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18:18:37preglown1s: i don't really know
18:18:56preglowjhMikeS: did you get anywhere with that filters_arm4.S stuff?
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18:21:07Nico_Pany c200 owners here?
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18:23:53lostlogicNico_P: just 8092 and trailing tag stripping
18:24:01lostlogicoh and runtime data gathering
18:24:36Nico_Plostlogic: that last one should have become easier now, shouldn't it?
18:25:06lostlogicNico_P: couldn't tell ya, don't know how it works or how its supposed to work :-D
18:25:15Nico_Phehe
18:25:48lostlogicI listed them in order of how close I am to knowing what to do with them ;)
18:25:57lostlogicbut I'm not very close to any
18:27:11puzzlesis there a dev channel?
18:27:20scorche|wthis is it
18:27:43puzzlesworks for me
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18:34:45pondlifelostlogic: All playback needs to do for the run-time data stuff is make sure it implements the (three?) callbacks... buffer/unbuffer/one other (I think!).
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18:49:05amiconnpreglow: speex only supports 8/16/32kHz, but not e.g. 22.05kHz?
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19:04:01lostlogicpondlife: (If you read logs) Yeah, the callbacks aren't the trouble, the having the right data for the callbacks is the challenge, now that that data does not reside in playback.c and needs to be copied to buffering.c
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19:42:37FalenWhy isn't rockbox plugins universal for the specified targer? For example, if I try to run a plugin file from an older version, if refuses to start
19:42:43 Part toffe82
19:43:01lostlogicFalen: plugin api changes sometimes
19:43:20FalenYeah, but not always
19:44:08lostlogicif the api hasn't changed, it should generally work, it's possible that someone made an incompatible change and didn't hcange the api version
19:44:11FalenAnd not that often either
19:44:20amiconnThe plugin api changes fall into 2 categories, backwards compatible and backwards incompatible changes
19:45:01amiconnIf there were no changes or only backwards compatible changes, the old plugin will run.
19:45:18FalenOk
19:46:01FalenI must have missed that then, every time I compile my game it refuses to run on a rockbox build from the day before
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19:46:52amiconnWell, the other way 'round it won't work. Newer plugins will only run on an older rockbox core if there were *no* api changes
19:47:24FalenOk
19:47:30amiconnBackwards compatible changes only add functionality, and an older plugin doesn't miss that new functionality, because it doesn't know
19:48:00barrywardellDomonoky: do you want a OS X binary of rbutil? I need to build svn rev 15488, yeah?
19:48:01amiconnBut a newer plugin probably wants to use the new functionality, and an old core cannot provide it
19:48:21FalenYeah, I get it
19:49:15FalenHave anybody ported over lua for rockbox?
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19:51:50FalenHmm, that would be pretty cool
19:52:21markunFalen: I don't think anyone has. What kind of thing would you be able to do with it?
19:52:39amiconnHmm, seems I have to upgrade the build on my H300 to check whether the bug I am experiencing is fixed...
19:53:11amiconnIt's a (non-critical, but slightly annoying) bug introduced with MoB
19:53:38FalenLua? You can create games, quick applications. Not everybody knows C, so there would be a ocean of new games coming to rockbox for example.
19:54:20markunFalen: do you have a link to any nice games?
19:54:46Nico_Pamiconn: what's the bug?
19:55:08WalterEgoRegarding the PP502x ports not turning off some parts of the hardware (and thus consumming more juice), is it at a dead-end? Or is it possible (but unpractical and too long) someone would test and still find stuff?
19:55:28amiconn'end of playlist' state isn't processed properly
19:55:53markunFalen: I see a lot of games who use lua in the wikipedia article, but nothing written in lua so far.
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19:56:13Falenhttp://psplua.com, for example
19:56:28markunthanks
19:56:45Falen* the forums
19:56:55amiconnThere are 2 effects: (1) "End of playlist" splash doesn't always appear. (2) the state isn't saved, so that powering down the player, powering up again and then trying to resume resumes - into the last few seconds of the last track, which should have ended already
19:57:17FalenIpodLinux have a lua port, http://ipodlinux.org/Lua
19:57:49amiconnWalterEgo: I don't think it's a dead end, but it looks like only a very few devs are actually interested in making the basics work properly :/
19:57:52mignishDoe anyone know, if I were to just copy files to my ipod, would Rockbox still pick them up? Rhythmbox converts all of my ogg files to m4a when I upload them... or does anyone know an app I could use in Linux that would upload all of my music files to my ipod without converting or changing any of my files?
19:58:14Nico_Pamiconn: I'll look into it... do you know anything about the places I should look in the code?
19:58:31Domonokybarrywardell: yes !! :-)
19:58:36markunmignish: rockbox will pick them up, just copy them anywhere
19:58:49mignishmarkun: thanks, what a relief...
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19:59:27markunFalen: hm, can't find any games at psplua.. where should I look?
19:59:51markunFalen: I think it's because they are updating the site..
20:00
20:00:03Falenhttp://psplua.com/forums/index.php/topic,131.0.html
20:00:05LearWhile Lua is small for a language, it isn't that small. Could be used by a plugin though...
20:01:19markunFalen: I see some games at dslua now. Are you planning to port lua to rockbox if nobody else wants to do it?
20:01:38FalenYeah, that's the idea
20:01:59preglowWalterEgo: it's very tricky to find out what parts we don't disable, mainly because we don't know that they're there...
20:02:00WalterEgoamiconn - Thanks.. I wish it was all a simple matter of testing 1, then 2, then 3, ... and note results, I'd happily build for days trying stuff for someone who knew what to look for (I don't).. Well, crossing fingers then.
20:02:06preglownot all devs are good at disassembling
20:02:11markunFalen: ok, good luck
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20:02:24Falenthank you :)
20:02:54FalenIs there a freenode channel for ipodlinux?
20:03:28amiconnpreglow: It's something that can be learned by practising it
20:03:33FalenYep, there is
20:04:10*amiconn learned almost everything about disassembling while doing it, for rockbox, plus 3 assembly languages :)
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20:05:22barrywardellDomonoky: barrywardell.net/rockbox/rbutilqt-1.0.3.dmg">http://www.barrywardell.net/rockbox/rbutilqt-1.0.3.dmg
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20:08:09Domonokybarrywardell: thanks
20:08:36Domonokynow i only need a linx build, and someone who moves the files to the download server
20:09:15linuxstb_Domonoky: Did you tag the 1.0.3 release in SVN?
20:09:35preglowamiconn: yeah, but it's still not everybody's cup of tea, heh
20:09:38Domonokylinuxstb: i forgot to tag it.. :-)
20:09:50preglowi think it's ok, but trawling through the entire of disassembly is not something i'm really keen on
20:10:03linuxstb_Domonoky: I know ;)
20:10:28mignishAre you talking about taging a bunch of files, preglow?
20:10:36preglowmignish: hell no
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20:10:40markunpreglow: it was a lot of fun for me during the gigabeat port
20:10:46Learlinuxstb_: Fix ipod detection on windows before release perhaps? :)
20:11:00linuxstb_I thought you did?
20:11:10LearSansa yes, ipod no.
20:11:17linuxstb_Oops, then time for 1.0.4... ;)
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20:12:14Domonoky1.0.3 isnt really release, so we could just rebuild the zips and dmgs to include the fix.. :-)
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20:14:05mignishHas anyone here used an iRiver?
20:14:18linuxstbDomonoky: Good job you didn't tag it then ;)
20:14:30mignish...if so how do they compaire to an iPod?
20:14:34Arathismignish: which iriver model do you mean?
20:14:49mignishany.
20:15:03mignishI'm curious how they are compaired to iPods.
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20:15:26mignishThey seem like they'd bee about the same. I am just curious if people like them better.
20:15:42ArathisI do, but I can't compare since I don't or ever did own an iPod ;)
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20:16:32mignishHehe, that is probably smart of you. The iRivers look better then an iPod... probably work more cleanly too.
20:16:42mignishI guess I can just read some reviews online.
20:16:49WalterEgoHmm...
20:16:53mignishI found an iPod, that's the only reason I have one.
20:17:24mignishAfter using the iPod and iTunes, I find that I dislike Apple even more.
20:17:52bertrikTry sony with their sonicstage ....
20:18:29mignishi'll take a look at it.
20:19:14bertrikto be clear: I hate sonicstage
20:19:28*amiconn has half-bright backlight on G5
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20:22:08linuxstbamiconn: So you found backlight brightness?
20:22:20amiconnEither the G5 backlight brightness circuit doesn't use PWM, or its frequency vastly differs from ours
20:22:40amiconnThere is no (additional) flicker during a software pwm fade
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20:23:15amiconnlinuxstb: I'm fairly sure. Just initing the 2 port pins gives half brightness, as opposed to full brightness when the circuit is disabled
20:23:28amiconnI still have to try the increment/decrement thing
20:23:28linuxstbLear: Do you want to commit the ipodpatcher change?
20:23:44LearI can do that. Untested though.
20:24:07linuxstbLear: We'll soon find out... It looks right to me though.
20:24:18 Part mignish ("Konversation terminated!")
20:24:20preglowamiconn: g5 has the same backlight handling as nano, yea?
20:24:31linuxstbIt does in Rockbox
20:24:34amiconnThe nano doesn't have brightness control afaics
20:25:01preglowamiconn: i think it does
20:25:14linuxstbpreglow: You mean in the OF?
20:25:29amiconnThe ROM doesn't contain the brightness test that the G5 rom has
20:25:41preglowhmm
20:25:43preglowlinuxstb: can't remember :/
20:25:57amiconnWhy don't you just boot the OF and check?
20:26:11preglowlemme see if i still have i
20:26:12preglowt
20:27:33preglowno, i can't find any brightness
20:28:23Learlinuxstb: Done.
20:28:26preglowamiconn: have you discovered how retailos does backlight fading?
20:28:41amiconnYes, and I already mentioned it last night
20:28:56amiconnI'm about to verify my theory about how it works
20:31:27preglowamiconn: at least that is shared with the nano, afaik
20:31:42amiconnReally?
20:32:11preglowwell, everything else about the backlight is the same, so i'd expect it to be
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20:32:31linuxstbWould be cool if Rockbox could do backlight brightness when Apple doesn't...
20:32:34amiconnHmm, but why doesn't it have brightness then?
20:33:34amiconnpreglow: Do you know (or could you check) whether GPIO D7 and L6 are used for something else on the Nano?
20:34:36amiconnThose 2 pins are used for controlling the backlight dimmer
20:34:42Mode"#rockbox +o Zagor " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
20:34:46preglowdon't know, no, can check
20:35:17Topic"Web server is down for disk change | Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community" by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
20:35:24pixelmaNico_P: you asked for a c200 owner earlier?
20:35:46preglowl6 seems to always be set
20:35:53Zagori'm taking down the web/mail server. perhaps as short as only a few minutes.
20:35:55preglowl7 seems to be backlight control
20:36:27Nico_Ppixelma: yes, I'm curious about FS #7975
20:36:46Nico_Ppixelma: more precisely, is it still valid?
20:36:54pixelmalooking
20:37:21amiconn"bool button;" ?? Hmm, better concentration, please! :\
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21:04:06Topic"Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community" by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
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21:04:32preglowamiconn: i'm such an idiot
21:04:36amiconn?
21:04:50amiconnDoes it work?
21:05:04preglowyes
21:05:05preglowyes it does
21:05:08amiconnwow
21:05:17amiconnYou can adjust brightness?
21:05:20preglowyup
21:05:22preglowworks perfectly
21:05:37amiconnwow again
21:05:40preglowstupid mistake, as usual, i was copying rockbox.ipod to the root
21:05:42preglownot .rockbox
21:05:57amiconnThe nano feature apple decided to hide from the users :P
21:06:04barrywardellDomonoky: updated barrywardell.net/rockbox/rbutilqt-1.0.3.dmg">http://www.barrywardell.net/rockbox/rbutilqt-1.0.3.dmg
21:06:21*pixelma happy she's not the only one doing stupid mistakes ;)
21:06:33dionoeaNico_P: ?
21:06:43amiconnpreglow: Seems that pulsing L6 alone does nothing. Pulsing D7 alone does work
21:06:47*linuxstb keeps quiet and hopes jhMikeS doesn't mention anything about linuxstb's testing abilities...
21:06:48Nico_Pdionoea: hi
21:06:58*amiconn checks whether L6 is needed at all
21:07:30preglowamiconn: it goes from full bright to very dark
21:07:39amiconnYeah, but not completely off
21:07:40dionoeaNico_P: I had a question about buffering. I have a playlist with track A and B, which are both buffered. If i skip to track B, track A gets unbuffered so that skipping back to track A spins the hard drive
21:07:45preglowamiconn: yup
21:07:55amiconnThen it's the same circuit as in the G5
21:08:00pixelmalinuxstb: that was a mistake... now I'm curious to hear the story :P
21:08:25dionoeaNico_P: but technically track A is still in RAM
21:08:48Nico_Pdionoea: this happens when track A isn't complete... it gets trashed. this seems to be happening a lot lately
21:09:14dionoeabut it was buffered completely before I skipped
21:09:41Nico_Pdionoea: yeah, it shouldn't be trashed but I think a recent change affected that
21:09:44dionoea(we'll I'm skipping in the buffer debug screen)
21:09:46dionoeaah ok.
21:09:53dionoeaCool :)
21:10:02preglowamiconn: works perfectly with pwm fading too
21:10:03dionoeas/we'll/well/
21:10:21Nico_Pdionoea: you did well to remind me of it because I had noticed it ut forgot to check
21:10:29dionoea;)
21:10:37amiconnpreglow: Yeah, but I'd want to get rid of pwm fading, and use the dimmer for fading as well. What do you think?
21:12:19preglowamiconn: i agree completely
21:12:39amiconnWell, if someone has set minimum brightness, it wouldn't fade
21:13:00preglowmyeah, and fades will look uglier at lower brightness settings
21:13:05preglowwell, it's worth a shot
21:13:21amiconnPerhaps we should keep software pwm fade in/out...
21:13:46preglowhmm
21:14:00preglowi'd rather at least test the dimmer for that first
21:14:02preglowto see how it looks
21:14:12amiconnAtm it's a bit dirty, because the sw pwm also switches B3, which should be kept high for the dimmer circuit
21:14:53amiconnB3 should only be disabled when the backlight is completely off.
21:15:26amiconnAH, and handling L6 is indeed superfluous, D7 is the dimmer pin
21:15:42amiconnCould you verify this on nano?
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21:19:52preglowamiconn: by just removing l6 writes?
21:19:57amiconnpreglow: New patch: amiconn.dyndns.org/g5-bl-test2.diff">http://amiconn.dyndns.org/g5-bl-test2.diff
21:20:01preglowokies
21:20:13scorche|wthis sounds interesting: http://buglabs.net/products
21:20:17amiconnNow with scroll repeat, correct directions and D7 only
21:20:58amiconnhmm
21:21:18preglowamiconn: works nicely
21:21:19amiconnjhMikeS: How long, do you think, can interrupts be disabled safely on PP?
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21:22:25amiconnlinuxstb: Could you try that patch on your early G5, just to make sure?
21:22:26preglowamiconn: hmm, the dimmer might be a bit too coarse to allow for nice fades
21:22:41amiconnYeah, even though it has 32 steps...
21:23:05amiconnTwice as many as on H300 - and people still want fading on H300...
21:23:39linuxstbamiconn: Sure.
21:23:46amiconnFunny method - a "morse-controlled" dimmer...
21:24:13amiconnThis means we have to track state in order to allow well-defined backlight settings
21:24:43amiconnThe order at poweron is: Enable B3 and D7, dim to the desired level, then enable L7
21:26:10amiconnThis can take up to 6ms worst case
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21:26:55preglowouch....
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21:30:10amiconnpreglow: Even a bit longer: dim up to level 32 (from 16): (350us+10us)*16=5.76ms. Dim down to level 1 (from 16): (350us+200us)*15=8.25ms
21:30:35amiconnThe 350us could probably be shortened a bit
21:30:56amiconn...as well as the 200. How much - that needs to be tested
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21:39:47linuxstbamiconn: That patch works fine on my 5G
21:40:15amiconnThe second one?
21:41:04linuxstbg5-bl-test2.diff
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21:41:23amiconnOk, nice :)
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21:44:34amiconnThe 200us cannot be shortened. 100us already increases brightness :/
21:45:08pixelmaall the kids that use the pwm brightness patch in an unsupported build and always have to use full brightness to play doom or a video will be so gratefull... ;)
21:46:26scorche|wmy nona is blinding in the dark
21:46:49*scorche|w glares at the letter of "nona" till they fall into proper order
21:46:59linuxstbnano
21:47:14*scorche|w is satisfied
21:47:45pixelmayeah, I saw that the mini's backlight is also blinding in the dark
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21:51:59amiconnBut that one isn't adjustable...
21:53:42pixelmaI guessed but I thought it could be comparable (something along the lines of "it's an apple product, so maybe they prefer bright backlight for their displays")
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22:00
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22:04:33amiconnThe pulse high time can be shortened drastically. Even 10us work in a tight loop setting brightness from min to max or vice versa
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22:23:35preglowamiconn: you think we should allow 32 khz voice files with speex?
22:26:42amiconnNo, I was just asking whether speex supports other sample rates than 8/16/32 kHz
22:27:35amiconnOur speex codec should of course decode all standard rates, but for voice files it's not absolutely necessary. Depends on how much code it needs
22:27:45amiconnSomeone might want to use 32kHz for .talk clips
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22:29:00preglowamiconn: there's no extra code, but we'll need a tiny bit more iram
22:29:24preglowamiconn: speex supports all sample rates, but is specially tuned for 8/16/32
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22:29:58amiconnWell, I can think of one situation where 32kHz voice files would be necessary:
22:30:56amiconnWhen using an iriver h1x0 hooked up via s/pdif. Some devices with s/pdif input only accept certain sample rates, i.e. the standard 32/44.1/48 kHz (and higher, but often not lower)
22:31:42preglowwhy would that make it necessary? voice is resampled to the output rate anyway
22:31:51amiconnhmm, right
22:32:18preglow32khz sounds a bit better than 16khz, but not much
22:32:38preglowwe'll see how much iram we have left, it's not a big deal anyway
22:33:42*amiconn needs to come up with a method to track dimmer status in backlight-nano_video.c, and still allow sw pwm to work...
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22:39:08jpt9hey
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22:39:28jpt9so... i ordered one of the Sansa e250s from woot on monday.
22:39:37mguayWhoever may care: I just noticed there's no manual for the Toshiba Gigabeat X series... Presumably the same as the F but it's not labelled as such on http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml.
22:39:39jpt9it's smartpost :-P, so it'll probably take a while.
22:39:50jpt9but I've been playing with the rockbox sim on my computer...
22:39:53jpt9DUUUDDEEEEE!!!!!!
22:39:54jpt9it kicks ass.
22:40:01lemurdude?
22:40:02jpt9the talking menus are quite nice.
22:40:03jpt9dude.
22:40:06lemurdude.
22:40:09jpt9lol...
22:40:13Bagderit's even better on a real target
22:40:18jpt9i would imagine.
22:40:22lemurSim as in emulator?
22:40:26jpt9yeah.
22:40:31lemurNice
22:40:35Bagderlemur: it is a simulator...
22:40:38mguayThat's dudee to you , sir.
22:40:45jpt9also, sometimes it stops playing music (like it'll still have the progress bar working and everything, just no audio)...
22:40:51jpt9will this also happen on the real thing?
22:41:04lemurWe hope not
22:41:10jpt9and some of the audio stuff (stereo width/channels) doesn't work. how much of this is the fact that it's running on a computer?
22:41:12Bagderjpt9: only if you hit one of the recent bugs introduced with the buffering overhaul
22:41:17jpt9ah.
22:41:30lemurIs buffering being overhauled?
22:41:40jpt9for one thing, if i put the *real* firmware in the emulator, it tries to run rockbox apps as native windows apps, which of course doesn't work...
22:41:48Bagderlemur: yes, the MoB and following craziness ;-)
22:42:16jpt9also, "Theme Settings" is read as "Central European". and you should get it to pronounce "Bass" as "Base" rather than the fish.
22:42:57jpt9can you get it to read "A" as the letter rather than "ah"?
22:43:22Bagderit depends on what tts engine you use and how you tell it to speak...
22:43:25jpt9gimme a sec...
22:43:31jpt9i have Espeak installed on windows...
22:43:34jpt9as a SAPI voice...
22:43:41jpt9i wonder if I can give it a British accent?
22:43:47lemurheh
22:43:57*Bagder knows very little about generating speak stuff
22:44:02pixelmaLlorean: you around?
22:44:05markunjpt9: it sounds quite british with the default en voice to me already
22:44:10jpt9ah.
22:44:17jpt9en-rhotic (I think...) is more british.
22:44:20Lloreanpixelma: Somewhat. What's up?
22:44:22jpt9are you using espeak?
22:44:30markunsometimes
22:44:38lemurthe voice needs to be female british
22:44:41lemurwith a bit of an attitude
22:44:42jpt9I assume you can't pull off running espeak or flite on the device itself?
22:45:01Bagderjpt9: there have been some work in that direction...
22:45:02jpt9have several recordings of the same items, so if you go to the same menu repeatedly, it starts getting pissed off :-)
22:45:09markunjpt9: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7660
22:45:32jpt9lemme try it...
22:45:41pixelmaLlorean: just read a bit in the logs and you mentioned aspect ratios for mpegplayer and that all displays are close to 4:3 in their size. The c200 has almost a widescreen display though ;)
22:45:49*linuxstb wishes we could solve the gplv2/v3 problem
22:46:12markunlinuxstb: there is still the gplg api trick that everyone uses..
22:46:28markunlgpl :)
22:46:38WalterEgo..the h10 small (5gb) has a square screen..
22:46:43linuxstbmarkun: That doesn't make any sense to me...
22:46:51lemurJust remove that clause from the gplv2 that says "or any later version of this license"
22:46:54lemur:)
22:47:19Lloreanpixelma: Okay, *most* displays are. Don't worry, when I make new presets for WinFF 0.31, I plan to have "Fullscreen" "4:3" and "16:9" presets, where the two ratio ones are the closest appropriate resolution to that ratio, since we're not constrained by multiples of 16 any more
22:48:35pixelmaI see :)
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22:50:39linuxstbLlorean: Do you have full-screen presets at the moment?
22:51:08Lloreanlinuxstb: Right now "4:3" is actually "Fullscreen" in most cases, except where the screen wasn't a multiple of 16
22:51:19LloreanBut I understand WinFF 0.31 has a new preset format, and I haven't written or adapted them to it.
22:51:36 Quit mguay ("CGI:IRC")
22:52:02LloreanAlso, someone mentioned the WinFF author might be contacting me, but that hasn't happened.
22:52:48pixelmaand if you happen to know because you already spent some time on WinFF. I couldn't figure out what it does with videos in a different aspect ratio - scale until one of the dimensions fit, maybe crop?
22:53:07linuxstbIt's just that you'll need to crop videos to accurately encode to full-screen.
22:53:28jpt9yeah...
22:53:43jpt9so i'm planning to put the entire High Voltage SID Collection on it :-)
22:54:00pixelmathanks linuxstb
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22:59:49Lloreanlinuxstb_: That's why there will be three options. 4:3 and 16:9 to preserve the aspect ratios of the original encode or fullscreen for those people who just want no wasted pixels independent of a little (or if you're my parents, a lot) of stretching
23:00
23:01:05Lloreanpixelma: As far as I know, it stretches the video to fit the resolution you define. Any cropping or restrictions at all must manually be defined. For example, you can tell it "scale X to 320 pixels, and y to preserve ratio" I believe, but if you tell it 320x240 it will stretch 16:9 videos to fill the whole screen.
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23:06:06pixelmaLlorean: ok, thank you for the explanation
23:06:22linuxstb_Llorean: If there is a "scale X to 320 pixels, and y to preserve ratio" option, why not offer that instead of the separate 4:3 and 16:9 versions?
23:07:39Lloreanlinuxstb_: Mostly because I hadn't noticed it when I created the original presets (and have only been told it exists, not how to do it) so I'm not certain it's definitely there yet.
23:08:37linuxstb_Yes, I'm talking in the future tense, _if_ it's possible.
23:08:44LloreanIf it's possible, I probably will
23:10:03linuxstb_And I'm not sure you need a full-screen preset either - the extra pixels will be minimal for 4:3 sources for most LCDs, and 16:9 sources will just be badly broken.
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23:11:06LloreanWeren't there people asking why their videos weren't quite full screen for the Nano back when we had the multiple of 16 limit?
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23:11:48 Quit Soap (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:11:50LloreanCould mpegplayer be made to center the video if the X or Y dimension isn't the full dimension of the screen?
23:12:03linuxstbIt does already
23:12:15lemurWhat character encodings does rockbox support?
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23:13:46pixelmalinuxstb: doesn't look like it with the 144x80 ED on my c200 - looks like it starts in the upper left corner
23:14:04Lloreanlinuxstb: I seem to recall on the Nano, back when I tested, that it started in the upper left, and the 8 pixel black bar was all along the bottom.
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23:14:08LloreanRather than 4 top, 4 bottom
23:14:13linuxstbHmm, then something is broken...
23:14:16pixelmaah, if smaller. sorry misread
23:14:38LloreanBut that was a long time ago, when last I tested...
23:14:39linuxstbYes, if it's bigger than the LCD, it will just display the top-left corner of the video.
23:15:09Dark_ApostropheDid yesterday's build have some kind of playback bug?
23:15:19Nico_Pare things like stereo width and balance supposed to work on sim?
23:15:32Nico_P(referring to what jpt9 said earlier)
23:15:32Dark_ApostropheWhere playback just randomly stops, and a powercycle is needed to make it continue playback
23:15:32linuxstbBut yes, mpegplayer _should_ center smaller videos, and if it doesn't it can be fixed.
23:15:46LloreanAlright.
23:15:53LloreanI'll assume it does until I have a chance to test again.
23:17:08pixelmaNico_P: maybe he didn't have custom channels enabled?
23:17:13linuxstbBut 4:3 on the Nano is 176x132 (i.e. full-screen), and rounded to 16 is 176x128, so it's only a 2 pixel gap top and bottom.
23:17:40LloreanHm
23:17:53preglowNico_P: i think so, yes
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23:19:54amiconnmpegplayer does center videos which are small than the screen
23:19:59amiconn*smaller
23:22:13Lloreanlinuxstb: I'm still not seeing ffmpeg options for scaling based on restrictions rather than absolute scaling. I have to wonder if the person who told me it could was basing it on the features of a program that simply used ffmpeg code, rather than ffmpeg itself. =/
23:22:26linuxstbIt's possible.
23:22:46*Soap is getting tired of the "Why the hell did you up the PP clock speed to 80Mhz" thread.
23:23:09LloreanThat thread makes me sound like an ass. =/
23:23:10Soapamiconn, Do I recall correctly that you said that 80 is what you found the Original Firmware uses?
23:23:29amiconnno
23:24:09amiconnI said that 80 is what the OF goes up to when load is high. That's based on the PP product briefs
23:25:04amiconnH10 and Sansas definitely use 80MHz, because that's what they have set when our bootloader takes control
23:25:38amiconniPods come out of their loader with the pll disabled (i.e. running at 24MHz)
23:26:39*amiconn hates discussing this over and over
23:26:50SoapI'm not trying to argue or stab.
23:27:52SoapI'm just trying to clarify. And, honestly, your first sentence after "no" doesn't make a ton of sense to me. How do you know that the Apple firmware goes to 80 under load from the PP product briefs?
23:27:53 Quit qweru ("moo")
23:28:32amiconnWell, the PP5020 is specced up to 80 MHz. H10 uses PP5020, and comes out of its bootloader at 80MHz
23:29:18amiconnPP5022 is specced up to 100MHz. Sansa uses PP5022/5024, and comes out of its bootloader at 80MHz
23:30:14amiconnPP5021 has no product brief, and identifies itself as PP5022 when reading the respective registers
23:30:50amiconnSo I'm 99% sure that PP5021 is just a PP5022 that doesn't reach the full 100MHz specs
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23:31:30amiconnAnd the 5021 in the Nano running *slower* than the 5020 in the mini 1st gen, 4th gen grayscale, and color is *very* unlikely
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23:31:57Soapand the Video runs at 80 fine, suggesting yet again that the processor can do 80.
23:31:59amiconnAdditionally, there already *is* an ata problem on the nano which is just hacked around
23:32:11amiconnThe video runs fine even at >80MHz
23:32:50amiconn(ask w1lliam)
23:32:51Soap(at least those tested do) We do have a massive test basis for 80 on the video.
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23:33:12amiconnyeah
23:33:34Soapthus a massive test base for 80 on the 5021
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23:34:53SoapI'll never ask again, amiconn, I am grateful for the debrief. I was hopeful I could close the (annoying) thread with a concrete "Apple runs up to 80" - but nonetheless the evidence does appear overwhelming.
23:35:47SoapDo you mind if I post this conversation in the thread and lock it? amiconn, Llorean. It has really gotten out of hand.
23:35:50amiconnThe higher power drain in rockbox is probably part of the problem, because the nano is so tiny
23:36:14preglowyeah
23:36:16preglowalmost certainly
23:36:22amiconnBut it can't be the only problem, because there are affected nanos where even 75MHz don't fix the problem
23:37:30*amiconn wonders whether there is really no one else who would be able to work on a fix :/
23:37:46eigmaBagder: ping
23:37:58Bagderyessir!
23:38:00amiconnThe problem is that I am already swamped with targets, and hence stuff to fix/ improve :\
23:38:38SoapI wasn't trying to pressure you for a fix. Hope I didn't come across that way either.
23:39:00amiconnYeah, but we need a fix, and nobody is moving ahead...
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23:41:44n1samiconn: you are simply too good at that low level stuff then ;)
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23:42:22pixelmaah, and btw. Llorean, Rockbox (usually) boots into the OF on USB plug (at least it does on my c200). It's just that it gets stuck on the Rockbox USB screen with some builds and one can't easily see it like on the Ipods (they have the same problem occasionally)
23:42:41pixelmayou said it wouldn't on e200/c200
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23:46:55Lloreanpixelma: I meant that it doesn't _reboot_ into the OF once Rockbox is already running
23:47:08LloreanThe e200 at least (for me) consistently boots into the OF if you plug in USB while it's turned off.
23:47:10pixelmathat's what I mean too
23:47:28LloreanBut once it's on, it just showed a USB logo and sat there. Did someone fix that semi-recently?
23:47:46amiconnIt does reboot from within rockbox, just not always
23:48:00amiconnThat problem exists, more or less, on all PP502x targets
23:48:03pixelmayes, it's more reliable if you plug it when it's off
23:48:28amiconnIt was introduced when proper usb detection went in
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23:49:26LloreanSoap: Go ahead and shut it down.
23:50:20amiconnThe chance for proper reboot depends on when you plug the cable (e.g. during dircache scan it's more likely to hang), on the target (Sansa and Mini seem to be more susceptioble than e.g. Video), and on the individual build
23:50:43pixelmaLlorean: there are a few threads in the forum that describe the same issue on Ipods, most of the time Minis
23:50:54*amiconn hopes that usb support in rockbox will fix those hangs as well
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23:54:17hcslostlogic: Still having problems with ADX. It may be how I'm doing the seeking, as I'm getting codec errors around the loop points.
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23:56:48amiconnmrf
23:57:00ijuzis there some special way to reset the sansa e250? i did nothing besides i stupidly tried to play some m4a file, that is some aac... then the screen when black and it's dead
23:57:40pixelmahold the power button for about 15 seconds
23:58:22ijuzah, i was a bit impatient, thank you!
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23:58:52eigmaI hate when they make it a ridiculous duration like 15 seconds..

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