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#rockbox log for 2007-12-04

00:00:26 Join linuxstb [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:01:26 Quit bertrik ("bye")
00:03:11linuxstbBagder: Have you compared the US and EU versions of the m200v2 firmware? The headers are almost identical, even though there are quite a few differences in the firmwares themselves (mainly the strings).
00:03:29Bagderno I haven't
00:03:46Bagderyou have them around?
00:03:54linuxstbI got them from your website...
00:04:11Bagderhm, I better check... :-)
00:04:33linuxstbI think.... Did you change them?
00:05:02linuxstbAh, maybe they weren't from your site - they are .7z files
00:05:20Bagderyeah, and I only have the A version here
00:05:32BagderI think zefie.com has them
00:05:53Bagderyes
00:05:58Bagderhttp://files.zefie.com/PMP/sansa/m200/firmware/4.1.08/
00:06:34linuxstbYes, those are the two I downloaded.
00:08:11 Quit stripwax (Connection timed out)
00:08:38 Quit stripwax_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:09:14linuxstbdan_a: Do you have one of the new Sansas yet?
00:09:15Bagderindeed very similar...
00:09:25 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
00:09:32dan_alinuxstb: Yes, the Clip
00:10:00dan_aIt might be a challenge squeezing Rockbox onto that
00:10:33advcomp2019Bagder, there is a new clip firmware
00:10:49Bagderadvcomp2019: have a url?
00:11:23linuxstbdan_a: So there's definitely no external DRAM - just the 2.5Mbit embedded in the SoC?
00:11:49dan_alinuxstb: I've not disassembled it, but that's what I've heard
00:12:11advcomp2019Bagder, no but i have heard there is a msc mode in the menu options
00:12:18darkhelmetbdager: no manual came with it
00:12:20darkhelmetit's a refurb
00:12:26 Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@m94.net81-66-75.noos.fr)
00:12:26darkhelmetbut i'll keep my eye out
00:12:59 Join pabs [0] (n=pabs@xor.pablotron.org)
00:13:01 Join stripwax_ [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
00:13:01pixelmadarkhelmet: the Rockbox manual...
00:13:34advcomp2019dan_a, you do not need to open your clip
00:13:57 Quit pabs (Client Quit)
00:14:03 Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@ool-435403e9.dyn.optonline.net)
00:14:06dan_aadvcomp2019: How else would I find how much DRAM it has?
00:14:09*stripwax_ hmms
00:14:10stripwax_ping?
00:14:25darkhelmetpixelma: gotcha
00:14:52stripwax_never mind. I think my irc client has gone crazy - nothing I posted recently showed up in the irc logs so I think my irc was readonly for the last hour or so
00:15:01stripwax_darkhelmet - which device?
00:15:44advcomp2019dan_a, someone has opened it
00:16:07B33B5hi, I have a 30gig 5G ipod. It's currently running iPL Loader 2.4, an old (~8months) version of Rockbox (senab build), and Apple Firmware v1.1.2
00:16:21B33B5I was wanting to update everything, in particular the apple firmware
00:16:32B33B5what is the safest way to do everything
00:16:42 Join Alonea [0] (n=chatzill@69.92.201.36)
00:17:01 Join pabs [0] (n=pabs@xor.pablotron.org)
00:17:06 Quit petur ("Zzzz")
00:17:09scorche|wB33B5: well, itunes restore, use the rockbox bootloader, and the official firmware ;)
00:17:09linuxstbB33B5: Updating the Apple firmware will remove any bootloader you've installed, so you'll need to do that first. It doesn't matter what you do after that.
00:17:58B33B5oh ok, it won't freak out because it's non-apple software in the bootloader
00:19:27dan_alinuxstb: Looking at the disassembly pics on anythingbutipod.com I can't see anything that would be DRAM
00:22:26 Quit darkhelmet ()
00:22:45 Join paperclip [0] (i=48cc9937@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-740aef0a8c056f5e)
00:23:45 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
00:23:59 Quit davina ("xchat on Ubuntu 7.04")
00:25:16paperclipwoot.com has the e260 refurb for $54.99
00:25:29papercliptrying to figure out if i want one my self..
00:25:45krazykityou do. give in like the rest of the americans in the channel have at some point.
00:26:35 Join webguest72 [0] (i=562d4d52@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-48d3f8b2c64c2b65)
00:27:01scorche|wkrazykit: not just americans...
00:27:05Aloneasafetydan was telling me something about someone was going to fix the controls for textviewer so you don't end up going to the end or beginning of a doc with the left and right keys?
00:27:30*scorche|w points to the file folder full of USPS receipts of stuff sent to rockboxers worldwide
00:28:12 Join lazka [0] (n=lazka@84.119.14.95)
00:29:04 Join stripwax__ [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
00:30:01stripwax__darkhelmet - does the correct time show up when using the OF?
00:30:03 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:30:19 Quit linuxstb ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
00:30:28*stripwax__ sighs - this client sucks, darkhelmet has already left
00:30:45 Quit stripwax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:32:08 Quit webguest72 ("CGI:IRC")
00:33:34paperclipkrazykit: i just got the c240 from them a couple of weeks back..
00:35:03paperclipi just noticed the 20gb H10 at tigerdirect.com for $99.. which is a bit more tempting to me..
00:35:06 Quit stripwax_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:40:53 Nick stripwax__ is now known as stripwax (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
00:41:01 Quit n1s ()
00:41:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:42:00 Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:43:45 Quit animeloe ("Leaving")
00:44:40 Join rayjgu3 [0] (n=rjg@c-67-173-140-250.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
00:45:42 Part rayjgu3 ("Kopete 0.12.4 : http://kopete.kde.org")
00:45:57 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
00:48:20paperclipanyone have any idea how to get a c240 back from being formated..
00:49:05paperclipi can get it to boot a firmware with e200tool but then it doesn't mount
00:50:01 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:50:18 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp75-109.adsl.forthnet.gr)
00:50:18 Quit sarixe ("(EE) Failed to load "quit" module")
00:54:10 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00:55:38 Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC")
00:57:17 Quit ompaul ("lights out lights out in Dublin .....")
00:58:11 Quit B33B5 ()
00:58:40 Join darkhelmet [0] (n=rberger3@64-126-90-28.dyn.everestkc.net)
01:00
01:00:09 Join radinp [0] (n=pradin@vpnwl-228-62.net.rpi.edu)
01:00:51 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:01:52 Join Workaphobia [0] (n=Jonathan@corenet-a-187.dynamic.rpi.edu)
01:02:25radinpI noticed strstr is not available in the plugin_api. How can I go about adding new string functions to the plugin_api?
01:03:06 Quit jurrie (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:04:09preglowadd them to the plugin api in plugin.c/h
01:04:33preglowdo you really need to, though? strstr should be simple to re-implement
01:04:56 Join BjoernErik [0] (n=Bjoern@123.80-202-252.nextgentel.com)
01:05:11 Join jurrie [0] (n=jurrie@adsl-068-209-041-021.sip.asm.bellsouth.net)
01:05:12papercliphmm.. buy.com has the e270 for $69.99 delivered..
01:05:31Workaphobiaother functions like strcmp are in there though (I think), why the asymmetry
01:07:10 Join isamu [0] (n=mlonegre@S010600179a47162e.ok.shawcable.net)
01:07:17isamuhello
01:07:46radinpOf course I could just implement strstr() in my own plugin but it's a pretty common function. It makes sense to code it directly into plugin.c
01:08:04isamui've spent the last 4 hours trying to put music on my toshiba gigabeat F40 with rockbox. can someone please help me!!!
01:09:05darkhelmetcan rock box display cover art?
01:10:09radinpSo if I just declare strstr in the plugin_api struct then it's availabe for all plugins? That doesn't make any sense.
01:10:33isamudoes anyone know why my gigabeat f40 would just timeout at a certain point after moving files onto it
01:10:50preglowWorkaphobia: we add functions to the plugin api as we need them
01:11:00preglowdarkhelmet: yes
01:11:05isamuto move music onto the gigabeat should I just be drag and dropping through explorer?
01:11:15preglowradinp: why dooesn't that make sense?
01:11:44radinpIt seems too simple :-)
01:11:56preglowhahah, it should be hard? :P
01:12:20preglowradinp: you declare it in the struct in plugin.h, then you add the actual pointer entry in plugin.c
01:12:37radinpGotcha, thanks for the clarification.
01:12:38preglowradinp: just check how it's done for the other str* guys, it's really simple
01:12:40pixelmadarkhelmet: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AlbumArt and I haven't seen a c200 WPS (while playing screen) available for download that has it. In fact I haven't seen any c200 WPSs that are shared only the included ones
01:12:45Workaphobiait's just that strcmp and strstr are of comparable utility and code size
01:14:32radinpSo what is the consensus? To add or not to add strstr to the plugin api?
01:14:44darkhelmetpixelma thanks, i need to figure out how to ctually play songs first i guess
01:15:06WorkaphobiaOh.. Looking at the complexity of plugin_api in plugin.h kinda answers my question. That seems like a pain to modify, only inserting at the end and whatnot.
01:15:21preglowradinp: go ahead and add
01:16:29radinpAwesome, that made my day.
01:20:13 Quit Bjoern-Erik (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:20:32 Nick nicktastique is now known as nicktastic (n=nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic)
01:22:06 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
01:27:58 Quit ender` (" Join the army, meet interesting people, kill them.")
01:28:04LloreanWorkaphobia: Things are added to the plugin api as they're needed. It's entirely likely strstr wasn't added because it wasn't used...
01:28:38 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105)
01:29:49 Join aasdasd [0] (n=ssess@adsl-68-94-10-22.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
01:30:22aasdasdumm i using the rocket box installer and when i try to install the full complete install or just the bootloader it says cann not find ipdo it is a 5g video 30gb
01:30:23 Join J3TC- [0] (n=jetc123@pool-72-76-187-15.nwrknj.east.verizon.net)
01:30:36preglowwhat installer?
01:30:45aasdasdrockbox utility
01:30:45 Quit paperclip ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:30:53preglowrocket box? :P
01:30:58 Part isamu
01:31:13aasdasdyeah
01:31:16aasdasdthe utility
01:31:40aasdasdand it cant seem to find my ipod at all
01:31:58aasdasdcan anyone help me
01:32:42aasdasdi am using the rockbox utility
01:32:46aasdasdand it says can not find ipod
01:33:17LloreanWhich version of rbutility are you using?
01:33:40aasdasdv2
01:34:12aasdasdwoops 1.0.3
01:34:22 Join mschneider [0] (i=42444ee1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-ce50634c82d8cad1)
01:35:05LloreanHm. Well try the manual install method then
01:35:36aasdasdwell si there a link so i can manually install bootloader2
01:36:07Lloreanbootloader2?
01:36:11LloreanI don't even know what that is.
01:36:31aasdasdugg
01:36:43LloreanThere are instructions for installing the Rockbox bootloader in the Rockbox manual. Both automatic and manual instructions.
01:36:43 Part Workaphobia
01:37:03 Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:37:05LloreanIf you're trying to install iPodLinux's Loader2, this isn't the right place for you.
01:37:45 Quit aasdasd ()
01:38:24 Part pixelma
01:47:10 Join evilr01t [0] (i=miu@wvf6342rh.rh.ncsu.edu)
01:52:35 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
01:54:25 Quit radinp (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:00
02:02:11 Join Mouser_X [0] (n=mouser_x@207.155.176.3)
02:16:59 Quit qwm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:19:35 Quit Soap (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:20:09 Join Soap [0] (n=Soap@62.153.212.209)
02:22:42Mouser_XMy Gigabeat locked up... I'm guessing it was when it attempted to do a buffer refill.
02:23:03Mouser_XChances are that it was attempting to load some MOD files (and thus, I'm using a patched build).
02:23:15Mouser_X^ As such, I doubt anyone cares.
02:24:29 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:30:50 Join karashata [0] (n=karashat@207.61.208.119)
02:36:22jhMikeSpreglow: still there? Is talk_shutup doing something weird?
02:36:43 Quit scorche (Nick collision from services.)
02:37:14 Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
02:39:01jhMikeSpreglow: Possibly. There's more mp3-centric code in there where it searches for frame syncs.
02:39:21jhMikeSpreglow: nvm, that's HWCODEC only. :P
02:39:21 Quit mschneider ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02:40:31 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
02:41:16 Join Divadmils [0] (n=Divadmil@pool-96-238-163-214.rcmdva.east.verizon.net)
02:41:34Divadmilshey guys
02:41:37 Part Divadmils
02:41:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:48:02LloreanCould someone answer this: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14173.msg105990;topicseen#msg105990 ("Why is Rockbox in C, not something newer like C++ / JAVA?"), I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to manage it without zajacattack thinking I'm being condescending or antagonizing him more.
02:48:10 Quit darkhelmet ()
02:50:13jhMikeSJAVA?
02:50:26 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
02:50:36krazykiti know, really, java? come on now.
02:50:39LloreanjhMikeS: He's really not the most technically knowledgeable of folk
02:50:52jhMikeSC++ is conceivable, but JAVA? :)
02:51:01 Join |NSA| [0] (n=pwned@c-24-128-104-22.hsd1.nh.comcast.net)
02:51:09jhMikeSLlorean: I suppose not
02:51:51jhMikeSWait, wasn't zajacattack the one that gets all his messages deleted?
02:52:04LloreanHe got a lot of messages deleted in the New Ports section
02:52:25|NSA|i am trying to install rockbox on one of those c200 sansas from woot, but i cant figure out the drive letter, it gets recognized/aded in windows as a portable devide. any hints?
02:52:29LloreanBecause he believes good intentions and enthusiasm are a valid replacement for "spending time learning about what has been done, and what needs to be done"
02:53:01Llorean|NSA|: It needs to be a Mass Storage Class device. If there's not a setting in the menu to change it from MTP to MSC, you'll have to downgrade to older firmware. I'm not sure how that's done though
02:53:18jhMikeSWatched too much Sesame Street if you ask me :)
02:55:11LloreanWell he did accuse me of being responsible for the fact that Rockbox is so slow. I'm keeping all the well intentioned contributors down by directing them to the manual rather than holding their hands, and that's what's making Rockbox progress at such a low rate.
02:55:12*jhMikeS will just be quiet won't poke too much
02:55:59jhMikeSRockbox is slow or development is slow...or both?
02:56:11LloreanDevelopment is slow
02:57:19LloreanjhMikeS: Read the last paragraph of this post: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14033.msg105070#msg105070
02:57:34 Quit goffa (Remote closed the connection)
02:59:52*jhMikeS has an answer
03:00
03:01:04jhMikeSbased on my general observations of things in the world
03:01:23LloreanHahaha
03:03:48 Join Klevi [0] (n=Levi@ool-435682a7.dyn.optonline.net)
03:03:56LloreanI think anyone who makes the assumption that by being "newer" a language is by default "better" has pretty much proved they've got very little in the way of real experience. =/
03:05:29 Join D0ug [0] (n=Doug@d235-215-218.home1.cgocable.net)
03:07:00D0ugI am installing rockbox on my new e280, when i reach the step to execute sansapatcher −− it gives me the error e200 not detected
03:07:02Shaidbut then, older doesn't make it better, either.
03:07:23Shaidor should I get onto that ADA port of rockbox right away? :P
03:07:30jhMikeSNot uncommon. Sort of like the answer I get when I ask people, "what is the opposite of 'cat'."
03:07:55LloreanShaid: Older by no means makes it better. My point was just that neither does newness.
03:08:11Shaidindeed.
03:08:13LloreanjhMikeS: "Everything else"
03:08:15Shaidatleast he didn't suggest C#
03:08:56advcomp2019D0ug, do you have it in msc mode
03:09:03D0ugYes
03:09:05jhMikeSLlorean: that's the right one. "Dog" seems to be the common one. Then I follow that with "what's the opposite of 'snake' then?"
03:09:28D0ugI've installed rockbox before using an older meathod on a e250
03:09:56LloreanjhMikeS: I was tempted to tell zajacattack "It is C++, we just insist that people only use a specific subset of all available keywords to maintain certain compatibilities"
03:09:57advcomp2019D0ug, do you have an e200 or e200R
03:10:04jhMikeSAnother correct answer is simply confusion :)
03:10:13D0uge280, non rhapsody model
03:10:26LloreanD0ug: What OS are you using?
03:10:40D0ugVista
03:10:49LloreanWhat drive letter is your e280?
03:10:53D0ugg
03:10:58jhMikeSLlorean: Yes, just like a square is a kind of rectangle.
03:11:10LloreanLlorean: And you've tried both sansapatcher and rbutil?
03:11:15LloreanjhMikeS: Exactly
03:11:26D0ugyes, neither work
03:11:38D0ugIt refuses to detect
03:11:44advcomp2019D0ug, what firmware do you have on the sansa then
03:11:44 Quit kclaf (Connection reset by peer)
03:11:48D0ugnvm
03:12:02advcomp2019D0ug, you got it?
03:12:05D0ugI just had to recconect it after dumping the .rockbox folder
03:14:27 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105)
03:14:41D0ugI <3 my Sansa/Rockbox
03:14:57KleviIndeeed
03:15:00KleviSO do i
03:15:37Kleviplaying movies on a tiny c200 and then switching to DOOM is an awesome expression to see on peoples faces.
03:15:45KlevixD
03:16:15D0ughttp://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tsitonyourmp3playervq7.jpg
03:16:28D0ugOnly dislike when this happened to old one
03:16:53 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
03:18:13jhMikeSit's best to not have that happen I guess
03:18:30D0ugLol, I remember when I took out DOOM in Science class for the first time...
03:18:39D0ugWhole class was clamouring for a try
03:19:57KleviYeah
03:19:59Klevisame here
03:20:44KleviD0ug: ouch
03:20:56D0ugYeah
03:20:58D0ugPissed me off
03:21:18D0ugBut I have a e280 now −− instead of a e250 :) (6gig upgrade)
03:21:24 Quit scorche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:21:37 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
03:26:30 Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
03:32:03 Join rayjgu3 [0] (n=rjg@c-67-173-140-250.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
03:38:26 Join psycho_maniac [0] (i=psycho_m@ppp436.hk.centurytel.net)
03:38:32 Join webguest49 [0] (i=48c8b425@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-537bf918b921aebd)
03:38:49Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:38:56scorchewhoops
03:39:01 Quit Klevi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:39:06Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:40:21webguest49hello?
03:40:34krazykithello
03:41:30psycho_maniaccan you run rockbox on the sansa e260? does that go with the e200 series?
03:41:48krazykitpsycho_maniac, yes, the e260 is part of the e200 series, as long as it's v1 and NOT v2
03:42:37krazykitso if you get that woot, it'll most likely be a v1, and might be a Rhapsody model, which is still rockboxable.
03:42:53psycho_maniachaha thanks krazykit
03:44:13|NSA|hmm, so there is no support for usb in rockbox for sansa yet? i need to boot into the original firmware correct?
03:46:20advcomp2019|NSA|, yes and yes to transfer data
03:46:23 Quit animeloe ("Leaving")
03:46:56webguest49Might anyone know how to set the disassembly output format of m68k-elf-objdump from, for example, "clr %fp" to "CLR A6" style?
03:47:29webguest49This style is more familiar to those with an old 68k Macintosh background.
03:49:45 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
03:51:44 Quit karashata ("I'm a fluffy dragon, anyone who gets in my way will be snuggled to death!")
03:54:07psycho_maniacdidnt sansa actually say that rockbox was better then the of?
03:55:05webguest49Curious, why rockbox over of?
03:55:20scorche"sansa" is a trademark...not a company
03:55:32psycho_maniacscandisk then
03:55:33scorchewebguest49: see the wikipage WhyRockbox
03:55:41psycho_maniacor whatever the company name is.
03:55:45D0ugSomone from Sandisk I thought inquired about how they could assist in Rockbox porting for Sansa, before there was audio?
03:55:49scorchepsycho_maniac: scandisk is a program....sandisk? =P
03:56:01webguest4910x
03:56:03psycho_maniacyes
03:56:07D0ugI made that mistake for years (Sandisk vs Scandisk)
03:56:18 Part webguest49
03:56:27scorcheD0ug: http://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox-sandisk-connection.html
03:56:29LloreanD0ug: They didn't inquire about helping us. They inquired about us making a port and offered "help" which turned out to really be next to nothing but a small hardware donation
03:56:49psycho_maniacthey donated players didnt they?
03:56:50rasherLlorean: and a horribly disused devboard
03:56:54D0ugOkay
03:58:21 Quit D0ug ("Leaving")
03:59:02 Part rayjgu3 ("Kopete 0.12.4 : http://kopete.kde.org")
04:00
04:06:30 Part |NSA|
04:06:42 Join webguest15 [0] (i=47ab16a1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-417c203ac8c40ac5)
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04:23:49webguest15I just synced my iPod (4G 20GB Color) with iTunes (7.1). The Rockbox firmware booted up when I plugged the iPod in, but by all appearances it seems that ITunes still managed to sync to the iPod. When I tried to update the database, the new audio files iTunes supposedly put on the iPod won't show up. After re-initializing and rupdating the databace a few times, restarting a number of times in the process, t
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04:25:01Mouser_Xwebguest15: You were cut off. "restarting a number of times in the process, t"
04:25:02webguest15I don't know the Rockbox version, but I think it's whatever is installed by rockbox Utility m1.0.2.
04:25:15Mouser_XUpdate first.
04:25:24webguest15the iPod flashed the "low battery" icon and turned off. It doesn't seem to want to turn on now. The battery had just been charged. Now it's been plugged in for about an hour now but still nothing on the screen. I remember the original firmware stil showed a "charging" icon when it didn't have enough juice to sync or moun the iPod, but I'm not seeing anything. Is it possible that I killed the iPod?
04:25:27webguest15the iPod flashed the "low battery" icon and turned off. It doesn't seem to want to turn on now. The battery had just been charged. Now it's been plugged in for about an hour now but still nothing on the screen. I remember the original firmware stil showed a "charging" icon when it didn't have enough juice to sync or moun the iPod, but I'm not seeing anything. Is it possible that I killed the iPod?
04:25:35Mouser_XWoah! Too much.
04:25:41Mouser_X(Why double?)
04:25:45webguest15sorry
04:25:57webguest15I must have copied a carriage return
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04:26:38Mouser_XI don't have an iPod, so I doubt I can be much help.
04:27:22Mouser_XEven if I did, I'd avoid using iTunes as much as I physically possibly could. In other words, I wouldn't get an iPod, just so I wouldn't have to use iTunes.
04:28:58webguest15Well it's too late for that. I already have about 100 or so purchased tracks from the iTunes Store so I'm more or less stuck with it.
04:29:15webguest15I just don't want to have to buy another iPod. I'm pretty sure that if I complain to Apple they'll just turn me away for running Rockbox.
04:29:34psycho_maniacwebguest15: hold select and menu for a couple of seconds untill the player turns on.
04:29:56psycho_maniachold them at the same time*
04:30:11webguest15That's what I tried at first, but that did nothing. None of the buttons do anything.
04:30:47psycho_maniacsometimes you have to press them at _exactly_ the same time. did you try more than once?
04:30:48Mouser_Xwebguest15: They won't complain at you for running Rockbox. At least, what I recall hearing is that they can't *prove* that you ran Rockbos. Also, you're not breaking any agreements by running. I could be wrong on both of those, but that's what I remember.
04:30:55rasherhold them a long time. Also, flicking hold on and off might help.
04:31:31webguest15Well, by "complain" I meant "refuse to help." I know that Rockbox is legal.
04:32:05 Quit animeloe ("Leaving")
04:32:41webguest15the odd thing is that even when it is plugged in nothing comes up. The last two or three times I plugged the iPod in with Rockbox installed it loaded.
04:33:22Shaidsometimes you have to hold the menu+select keys for a while before it reboots.
04:33:43Shaidon my old 5g I had to actually pull the battery sometimes to get it to reboot though
04:33:47Shaid4g, even
04:33:58webguest15I just tried the reset combo again and it works now. Thanks.
04:34:39ShaidCool
04:34:49webguest15Sorry to bother you guys.
04:37:11webguest15I just checked the Databace and now the newly synced stuff is there as well. :)
04:37:41ShaidI like happy endings.
04:38:31webguest15I think it might have been because I tried both "Update Now" and "Intialize Now" before I found out that the latter reset the Databace.
04:38:51webguest15I gues it was working this whole time or something.
04:39:38webguest15Well thanks for all of your help.
04:40:35Shaidhaha
04:40:43ShaidYou're welcome.
04:40:58 Part webguest15
04:41:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:45:30lemur_hey hey hey
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04:46:21lemurI just wanted to drop by and ask if there is any bad bugs in the latest firmware
04:46:34krazykitlemur, you could check the tracker.
04:47:22lemurwhar
04:47:45krazykitlook on the left side of every page on rockbox.org
04:48:06lemurk
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04:48:16lemuroh I sees it
04:49:04lemurlooks like no serious issues
04:49:04lemurgood
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04:51:49JdGordoncan someone test the patch attached to FS #8168 to see if it fixes the bug?
04:52:01psycho_maniacwhat players?
04:52:10JdGordonany fm player
04:52:25psycho_maniacoh dang. i cant help
04:52:52psycho_maniacbut i could help in a week ;)
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05:05:25lemuryou think it's safe to use the 32 bit patcher on a 64 system?
05:05:27lemuron the sansa
05:05:36Shaidshould be fine
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05:06:00Shaidconsidering half the software you're currently running on your 64bit system is probably running in 32bit mode anyway :P
05:07:30jotti've a plugin that works fine in the simulator but on the device (ipod video) now shows "*PANIC* stkov" when running. is there a way to trace/debug this?
05:07:44psycho_maniacstrangly my gigabeat F is running slow. would it have anything to do with a 30% battery life?
05:08:26lemurwhy does the sansa have two partitions
05:08:27lemurhmm
05:08:33Mouser_Xpsycho_maniac: Slow how? I've used my Gigabeat until it's shut itself off because of low power, and I haven't noticed a problem.
05:08:36lemurcan rockbox use file systems other than fat?
05:08:40krazykitlemur, one is the firmware partition.
05:08:47psycho_maniaclaggy like a lot of cpu is being used
05:08:54Mouser_Xlemur: No, it can't. It needs to be FAT32.
05:09:04psycho_maniaci dont have the latest build but its been running fine the last time i used it
05:09:05lemurwow, I didn't know the firmware was on a partition
05:09:33Mouser_Xlemur: Yes. It's why using a regurlar formatting tool is often a bad idea.
05:10:13Mouser_Xpsycho_maniac: Try a new build? What are you doing? Music? Video? Plguin/DOOM? If music, what format/codec?
05:10:18lemurah, I think rockbox has superior sound quality than the factory firmware
05:10:35psycho_maniaci think having as many files as i have is problem for any rockbox player.
05:10:43Mouser_Xlemur: I've heard others say the same thing.
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05:10:53ShaidI have lots of files on mine
05:10:56Shaidit runs ok
05:11:06Mouser_Xpsycho_maniac: How many files do you have, and why would that be a problem?
05:11:18psycho_maniacim playing a mp3 file when it first boots up. i have over 10k
05:11:18*Mouser_X has 60,000+ songs on his Gigabeat.
05:11:38lemurthe database has access to songs that I can't find in the file browser
05:11:49lemuris this related to drm, or just something else?
05:11:54scorchelemur: it indexes hidden files and folders
05:12:03lemurah
05:12:23lemurman, installing rockbox was easy
05:12:24Mouser_X(Of that 60,000+, 32,000 of them are SID files.)
05:12:32psycho_maniacwow if sansa can run 64 hours on the OF how long does it last with rockbox?
05:12:39Mouser_XLess.
05:12:44krazykitpsycho_maniac, it can't run 64 hours.
05:12:46JdGordon64 hours!!?
05:12:55psycho_maniaca lot less?
05:13:07krazykitpsycho_maniac, no, the OF does not run 64 hours.
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05:13:43psycho_maniacoh i misunderstood what it ment in the specs. it can hold 64 hours of music
05:14:10psycho_maniac20 for the OF
05:14:41Mouser_Xpsycho_maniac: If you have Rockbox, then you can play SPCs and NSFs, which are *much* smaller than MP3s or WMAs. In this case, it could be days/weeks.
05:15:18psycho_maniacyeah i know i didnt care about that really i just misunderstood it reading it too fast.
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05:21:00psycho_maniacwoah. tried current build and now im getting codec failure :(
05:21:18Mouser_XDid you reboot your Gigabeat?
05:21:25Mouser_XYou'll get that if you don't power off first.
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05:21:51psycho_maniacoh thanks for that info Mouser_X
05:21:53lemurwooo
05:21:56lemurI can disable the wheel light
05:22:00lemurthat thing is annoying as hell
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05:27:21*psycho_maniac should download the sansa rb manual ;)
05:27:39*Mouser_X read the Sansa RB manual.
05:30:36psycho_maniacwhy are some intallation instructions in the wiki and others not? like the gigabeatF install instructions are in the wiki but for the sansa e200 you are directred to the manual.
05:31:35Lloreanpsycho_maniac: The Gigabeat F ones are in the manual...
05:31:41LloreanYou're always directed to the manual
05:32:17psycho_maniacyes but i learned how to install it on the wiki and NOT the manual
05:32:35LloreanYes, but you're SUPPOSED to use the manual
05:32:52LloreanThe wiki contains a lot of information from when the port was in development
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05:54:55lemurthat's weird
05:55:01lemursome spc files I loaded don't play, but some do
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05:59:28Mouser_XI can agree that that is indeed weird. Which ones didn't play?
05:59:35lemurmeh
05:59:44lemurI am testing the files on my pc with mplayer
05:59:51lemursome files are just blank
05:59:53lemurnot sure what's up
06:00
06:00:07Mouser_XWhere'd you get them from?
06:00:12lemursomewhere
06:00:21Mouser_XI use SNESAmp to play SPCs.
06:01:10*jhMikeS hasn't had a single one not play in rockbox
06:01:34Mouser_XNeither have I.
06:04:25psycho_maniacwhat do you guys prefer to do? the automatic installation or the manual instaltation for your rockbox players?
06:04:35jhMikeSmanual
06:05:16LloreanI still haven't used RButil to install on a device. Nothing against it or anything, I just kinda like my command line.
06:05:47*jhMikeS just likes to be able to mess it up and then figure out how to fix it :p
06:06:22*Llorean wanted to try the iFP port but can't get it to build. =/
06:06:38jhMikeSyou have one?
06:06:41LloreanYeah
06:06:46LloreanI've had one for ages.
06:06:51krazykiti'm waiting for rbspeex to be integrated into rbutil so i can play with voice some more
06:07:02LloreanGot it when iRiver had them and waterproof cases for them on clearance on their website.
06:07:02lemurup
06:07:02jhMikeSit looks rather unfinished to me
06:07:21LloreanjhMikeS: My understanding was that it barely worked, but that music was sometimes playable.
06:07:55LloreanOf course, several of the existing codecs are too big for it, but even after having those not build and shrinking the buffer I was getting some other error
06:07:58jhMikeSI think the memory space is just plain too tight.
06:09:01jhMikeSA SWCODEC target with less memory than an Archos Jukebox? Urgh.
06:09:05Llorean1 MB isn't all that small on a flash device though
06:09:15LloreanIt's not like you need a compressed buffer.
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06:09:58LloreanI remember someone shrinking theirs on their Nano to almost none so that their plugin buffer was giant.
06:11:02LloreanIt's not like the 312KB that the new Sansa Clip has. :)
06:11:16psycho_maniacwow you mean that player thats kinda in the shape of a long triangle?
06:11:25jhMikeSI think perhaps some real adjument to flash devices is needed. They don't write as fast as disk devices and huge flushes during recording can take awhile.
06:12:13LloreanjhMikeS: Yeah, there's a lot of assumptions still based around there being a spinup time and other things, too.
06:13:57jhMikeSRecording can handle the mods with little effort actually.
06:14:38LloreanHm, nearly all our flash targets can record, can't they?
06:15:06jhMikeSI don't know. I'd still want to encode to RAM of course but perhaps flush every MB or so.
06:15:20jhMikeSDoes iFP have recording?
06:15:29LloreanYes.
06:15:37LloreanBuiltin mic, plus line in
06:15:40psycho_maniacthe ifp was back when the h100 was popular wasnt it?
06:15:46LloreanIt's kinda like a very, very small H120 without optical.
06:16:25jhMikeSrecording could cut far closer than 1MB on a flash-only target.
06:16:57LloreanShould I arrange to get one in your hands and convince you to finish the port? :-P
06:17:08jhMikeSprerecord would be out of the question unless you like constant flash writing to wear it out.
06:17:25jhMikeSis there a datasheet for the CPU?
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06:18:00*jhMikeS already has a gigabeast coming to work on though
06:18:02LloreanjhMikeS: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PhilipsPNX0101
06:20:36jhMikeSNo docs on the DSP core? ugh.
06:21:35jhMikeSI see a handout for the chip but no datasheet. Perhaps I'd bug them about one directly.
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06:23:10LordOinkhiya
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06:23:30LordOinkhiya
06:23:35LloreanYou said that already
06:23:51LordOinkanyone here?
06:23:56LordOinksorry, I lagged
06:24:07LloreanThere are people here, yes.
06:24:27LordOinkUm, is rockbox going to release a firmware out for the Zune?
06:24:50LordOinki heard they were planning to last year but never did
06:24:59LloreanNo, we were never planning to.
06:25:01LloreanWe don't plan ports
06:25:02Mouser_XLordOink: You heard wrong.
06:25:07LloreanRockbox is entirely a volunteer effort.
06:25:07LordOinkoh
06:25:13LloreanThat means that if people who own Zunes work on it, it'll happen
06:25:25LordOinkoh
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06:25:43n17ikh|Lappyhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/OtherTargets#Toshiba_Gigabeat
06:25:47n17ikh|Lappysee that, LordOink
06:26:01LordOinkhttp://www.zune-online.com/firmware.html
06:26:11AloneaLlorean: hmm, if I remember right didn't they say the Zune was familiar to the X or S or whatever toshiba one that is similar
06:26:23Alonea*familiar = similar
06:26:48jhMikeSThe S is the similar one
06:27:01LloreanAlonea: It's similar to the S, but there are a lot of players similar to the Sansa that don't have ports yet.
06:27:08scorcheLordOink: purpose of that link?
06:27:09LloreanIt still depends on people owning it doing some hard work
06:27:18AloneaLlorean: sansa?
06:27:20LordOinkum that's where I heard it from
06:27:31scorcheLordOink: well, i promise we arent lying ;)
06:27:44LordOinkThanks.
06:27:51n17ikh|Lappysansa, like portalplayer?
06:28:00LordOinkI really wish they'd make one though.
06:28:16Lloreann17ikh|Lappy: Yeah, I was referring to the PP502x family of players
06:28:27Alonean17ikh|Lappy: I know what the sansa is, I am confused because I was talking about gigabeat s and then he said sansa..
06:28:28LloreanLordOink: Then go find competent Zune owners and convince them to work on it
06:28:43mud-rbLordOink: the code signing for zune isn't broken yet i don't believe, so if you really want a port, you should probably look into that if you have the ability. that'd be the first step
06:28:44Mouser_XLordOink: To the best of my knowledge, they haven't even found an exploit in the Zune's OF to run custom code yet. In other words, there's a long way to go.
06:28:47n17ikh|Lappyor you could fund the rockbox project
06:28:51scorcheLordOink: http://www.zune-online.com/news/zune/rockbox-and-zune-walking-together.html is quite accurate
06:28:53Mouser_X^ I could be wrong though.
06:28:57LloreanAlonea: My point was that "being similar doesn't necessarily make a port more likely, as there's all those similar ones to an existing finished port that don't have ports"
06:29:02scorche"It's not possible to say for sure whether Rockbox is going to get ported to Zune or not. Of course there is no possibility to predict “when” either. There are some things though that have to get pointed out."
06:29:04n17ikh|Lappypay some hackers to buy zunes and code a rockbox port for them
06:29:21AloneaLlorean: sorry. its late and my head is killing me. not making a whole lot of sense and my concentration is shot.
06:29:27AloneaLlorean: ^__^
06:29:30LloreanAlonea: No worries, I was a little vague.
06:29:51n17ikh|Lappyand, since the zune is microsoft... there's a good chance they've gone out of their way to lock the hardware down
06:30:02LordOinkya
06:30:12AloneaLlorean: its ok. been frying my brain on java homework. I am probably just as vague. well, I am going to take some IB and goto bed.
06:30:13Aloneanight all
06:30:27LordOinkI heard from another forum that there is too much security on the thing
06:30:29LordOinknight.
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06:31:53LordOinkmeh
06:32:21webguest60does anyone know if rockbox will work with ipod docks?
06:32:36Lloreanwebguest60: Depends on what the dock does.
06:33:07LloreanThere's a wiki page for Ipod Accessories that show which ones have been tested, and how much of them works
06:33:08webguest60i plug in the ipod, it just charges it and plays music... i'm wondering if the remote which has play/pause, forward, back, volume, will work
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06:33:18LloreanNo, the remote will not work
06:33:26webguest60ah, that's too bad
06:33:29webguest60thanks
06:33:34psycho_maniacis there a zune wiki page?
06:33:44n17ikh|Lappynope
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06:35:17psycho_maniacwifi on a mp3 player would be cool. i wouldnt know what to use it for though.
06:36:16LloreanStreaming webradio around the house, and a builtin RSS / Podcast reader obviously.
06:36:27LloreanI find it bizarre that the Zune (last I heard) does neither of these things
06:36:34mud-rbmaybe player to player sharing of data
06:36:49LloreanThen again, the Zune is, imho, the biggest missed opportunity Microsoft's done.
06:37:00LloreanBut that's off topic for here
06:37:52psycho_maniacis the gigabeat S encryped like the zune? is that why it is taking awhile for the gigabeat S?
06:38:18Mouser_XNo, that's not why.
06:38:26krazykitpsycho_maniac, no, code is being run on the S.
06:38:37Mouser_XThey already have code running on the S. They've figured out how to bypass the security of the S entirely.
06:38:59psycho_maniacso what is slowing the port? time
06:39:11Mouser_XNo. Difficulty.
06:39:56Mouser_XWell, to an extent time... There's lots of timing issues. As in, when booting, it seems that things need to be done in a very specific order, and at a specific time, for it to work.
06:40:08Mouser_X^ At least, that's how it sounds to me.
06:40:36psycho_maniacalso they have stuff working but they dont know why its working. thats what it says on the wiki
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06:41:54Mouser_XIndeed.
06:41:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:42:35Mouser_X"Well, I accidently put in the wrong address, but it's working anyway... I think I'll leave it for now."
06:42:53Mouser_X(I'm pretty sure that's not what really happened, but it's kind of funny that it seems that way.)
06:43:54psycho_maniachaha. that WOULD be funny
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09:11:00pondlifeThis is slightly OT, but I have inherited a first gen iPod Nano which gets very hot when charging and smells of burning after a short while... I've not dared leave it to charge, of course. Google doesn't find me any useful info on the likely cause (too many useless results), anyone else seen (or smelt) this?
09:11:22pondlifeI will be opening it up shortly to look for obvious short-circuits.
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09:12:51mud-rbwithout knowing what i'm talking about at all, i'd have to assume either something is shorting or the battery is really messed up
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09:19:05GodEater_hey neat, you got one of those Nanos with a small nuclear reactor in it Pondlife! Well done!
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09:21:11pondlifeI'll wear protective goggles then...
09:21:38pondlifeAll Google seemed to find was the story of the man whose trousers caught fire...
09:22:13amiconnThis ipod wheel acceleration is annoying :(
09:23:08amiconnI overshoot way more often than before
09:23:38amiconn...while the acceleration effect isn't really noticeable
09:23:38GodEater_better than carpal tunnel syndrome induced mega scrolling
09:23:54GodEater_how can you say it's not noticeable ?!?!?!
09:24:11amiconnOther than by the annoying overshoot I mean
09:24:52amiconnWith this code I need longer to get to a certain entry than before
09:25:26GodEater_I completely, thoroughly, and utterly disagree with that.
09:26:27*petur advises GodEater not to argue with amiconn - you lose ;)
09:26:28amiconnI have to scroll back & forth several times now in longer lists in order to get where I want
09:27:13amiconnWithout this acceleration, I did not need to do this, and hence it was easier & faster to operate
09:27:25GodEater_you must have really fat fingers...
09:27:30amiconnAnd I did not have to do 'mega scrolling' as you call it
09:27:43amiconnNot at all
09:28:40GodEater_which ipod is this on? Or is it all of them ?
09:28:44amiconnmini G2
09:28:51amiconn...and G5.5
09:29:04GodEater_I don't find it that hard at all
09:29:12amiconnMy others don't have acceleration, as it's only implemented for touch wheel
09:29:15GodEater_it's extremely accurate for me, and very much quicker than the old way
09:29:32LloreanIt definitely makes a large difference for me on my Nano.
09:29:47LloreanSlow scrolling is still precise, while fast scrolling gets me through a lot more entries a lot quicker.
09:29:48*amiconn should probably disable this annoying acceleration for his own builds
09:29:50GodEater_unless you lack dexterity, I can't imagine why it's so hard for you
09:30:05amiconnLlorean: The problem is now that you can't scroll fast *and* precise
09:30:43amiconnThe slowness required for accuracy is way below my usual scroll speed
09:30:47GodEater_you couldn't scroll fast AT ALL before
09:31:02amiconnWell, it was faster than what I can do now
09:31:33amiconnYou can scroll faster now if you want to get to the very beginning or end - but that's all
09:31:46Lloreanamiconn: Hm, I don't find it to be so with my Nano. The only time it gets "fast" is when I'm moving my finger a quite decent speed already, so for me at least there's no lost precision.
09:32:17GodEater_and we asked for feedback on the patch *a lot* before it was commited
09:32:26amiconnWith my usual finger speed, it's easy to overshoot ~2 lines even in the menus
09:33:05Lloreanamiconn: I suspect though that you never used the OF at all, right?
09:33:10amiconnnope
09:33:13LloreanI think part of the problem is developed use habits.
09:33:20amiconnI can't, since I'll never install itunes
09:33:32LloreanPeople who started with the OF are used to the fact that very slight finger movements are all that is necessary
09:33:49LloreanIf you get used to Rockbox's original responsiveness, you needed much larger relative movements
09:34:02*jhMikeS tuned e200 to avoid those little things and rockbox is more controllable than retailos
09:34:14amiconnGodEater: I know - and guess why I didn't test it? I had no problems with scroll speed before that patch
09:34:38amiconnI accepted that some users wanted it faster, but didn't expect it to become worse for me - but it did
09:34:42LloreanjhMikeS: I think Rockbox on iPod is more controllable than the retail OS, and I really do think Amiconn's issue, while kinda valid, is more a case of just being used to the old way, and happening to prefer it.
09:34:53GodEater_indeed
09:35:10LloreanBut the old way was really unusable for lists beyond about 50 entries long.
09:35:27LloreanSomething quite common for album lists, or even artist lists, on large storage devices.
09:35:32amiconnI used the old way for lists with 1000+ entries, although not often
09:35:57GodEater_ouch
09:36:02LinusNthe acceleration made my life much better
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09:36:29jhMikeSe200 was kept to have accel be delayed enough and not kick in right at some threshold because that's where accel would kick in just because of the math
09:36:36amiconnGodEater: It was okay, unlike using the menus now....
09:36:42GodEater_LinusN: that's a pretty big claim for it ;)
09:36:47LinusNi feel more in control with the acceleration than i did without
09:36:57LloreanLinusN: Same here
09:37:02GodEater_ditto
09:37:03jhMikeSof course the e200 wheel has slow mode
09:37:24LloreanWithout acceleration I felt like I was dragging the selection bar along behind me.
09:37:26jhMikeSwithout it, it was pretty nasty
09:37:32LloreanNow it feels like it's where I want it to be, when I do.
09:38:18LloreanIt also feels more consistent (to me). With the old way, if I moved my finger faster, it didn't really feel like I could move faster past a ceiling.
09:38:45LloreanNow at least it feels more responsive to changes in my finger movement speed.
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09:39:49LinusNexcept that the file browser is lagging for me
09:40:12LinusNi still don't understand why the file browser is so much slower than the menus
09:40:28amiconnI know, and I already told
09:40:35GodEater_that's very peculiar
09:40:35GodEater_I only saw that happen on one build to me though
09:41:03LinusNit always happens on my 5g
09:41:33GodEater_and yet we've no reports of that behaviour that I'm aware of from other users
09:42:01amiconnIt gets slow if tehre's a lot of long file/dir names
09:42:14amiconnIt's the mono bitmap drawing on 16 bit
09:42:23LinusNaha
09:42:25amiconnMost noticeable on G5 because of the lcd resolution
09:42:35GodEater_so why don't I see it on the 5.5 ?
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09:44:45amiconnGodEater: You don't have many consecutive files with long names in your lists?
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09:45:23amiconnLinusN: It turned out that gregw's "optimisation" is rather the opposite
09:45:37LinusNwhich one was that?
09:45:40GodEater_amiconn: but I saw the issue once right back when LinusN first reported it
09:45:46amiconnI plan to make a gfx speed test plugin some day
09:45:46GodEater_and the file list on the device hasn't changed
09:46:10amiconnAtm it's just nasty to test stuff on touchwheel ipods for me...
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09:49:01LinusNamiconn: so it draws the entire string and relies on clipping?
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10:11:10GodEater_interesting news on the iPod Touch front
10:12:11Bagderwhere how what?
10:12:24GodEater_http://www.touchdev.net/wiki/Main_Page
10:12:32GodEater_they have a working jailbreak on it
10:12:42GodEater_so RB as app is likely possible
10:12:47Bagdercool
10:12:49GodEater_there's some words on it in the new ports forum too
10:12:53Zagornice
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10:13:06GodEater_talk of the devil....
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10:14:22GodEater_do we know of any current rockbox devs who've been to the dark side and bought one ? :)
10:14:43BagderI don't know any
10:14:43*homielowe is not a dev, but is pretty ashamed
10:15:05GodEater_hehe
10:15:09Bagderit's never too late to become a dev!
10:15:14GodEater_none have owned up to it then :)
10:16:07homielowe:)
10:16:08GodEater_well go for it homeilowe - and let us know how you get on
10:16:28GodEater_i before e, except after c.
10:16:32*GodEater_ goes back to school
10:16:57homieloweI'll try and compile the toolchain tomorrow, it's like 1:15 in the morning right now .
10:17:34LinusNoh, and forget about learning C, i read in the forum that we need to upgrade to a more modern language, like C++ or Java :-)
10:17:48GodEater_LinusN: we were speculating on that in -community earlier
10:17:54GodEater_we decided JRuby is the way forward ;)
10:17:59LinusNlol
10:18:26GodEater_even the ASM parts need porting to a more modern language, or apparently we're living in the dark ages.
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10:22:06markunLinusN: which thread was talking about changing the programming language?
10:22:18LinusNhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14173.0;topicseen
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10:23:49markunCan't we make a special batch for this guy?
10:23:59markun(badge?)
10:24:34LinusN:-)
10:24:40GodEater_yeah, one with a biohazard symbol on it ?
10:24:46markun:)
10:25:09LinusNnah, i think it's a fair question after all
10:25:38BagderI think it is allowed to ask
10:25:49markunI was not talking about this post in particular
10:25:51Bagderalthough I think the question reveals something about the person who asks
10:25:56LinusNmarkun: i know, i know
10:26:06LinusNhe has been a pain at times
10:26:08Bagdertrue, he's a bit of a special person
10:26:15GodEater_in a "big shoes" sort of way
10:26:37peturBagder: it is perfectly possible to use plain C libs and code from within C++ ;)
10:26:39markunaccusing Llorean in one thread of many things and being polite and friendly in another one
10:26:52markunto Llorean
10:26:59Bagderpetur: yes, sure
10:27:06Bagderbut then C++ism very easily sneak in
10:27:40peturotoh, you can write fairly object oriented in plain C :)
10:28:02Bagderyeah, and if you ask me that's the only OO you need ;-)
10:28:09markunwasn't libflac a good example of that? :)
10:28:14Bagderouch
10:28:30markunand why we shouldn't stick to 80 chars per line :)
10:28:41Bagderhahaha
10:28:44markun(or was it 72?)
10:28:55Bagderand we should have all function names >80 letters too
10:29:13markunthen at least it's clear what the function does
10:29:41markunwe could duplicate the souce code of the function and use it as it's name!
10:30:18peturmarkun: put { } around it and ommit the function ;)
10:32:05peturwe could do with a rule to restrict the length of functions... some of them go on for ever (like in recording.c)
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11:12:02amiconnLinusN: No, it doesn't. It draws up to the right margin. But that still makes it slow enough to notice
11:12:31LinusNwow
11:12:31amiconnIf you have a folder with short filenames which only go halfway across the screen, you won't notice the slowness
11:12:46LinusNi see, is there any hope of optimization?
11:12:49DarkStylistguys where are drivers for usb for sansa e270?
11:12:59amiconnsure
11:13:04ZagorDarkStylist: ignore the driver popup
11:13:19ZagorDarkStylist: you need to reboot to original firmware to transfer files
11:13:48DarkStylisthow i reboot?
11:14:15DarkStylistjust got that lill player u know
11:14:41ZagorDarkStylist: if it doesn't do it automatically when you insert usb (it should) you turn it off first and then insert usb
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11:15:17amiconnpetur: Wanna see a really long function? Check out mpeg_thread() in mpeg.c ;)
11:16:06*petur is too scared to look
11:16:44DarkStylistdid so
11:16:47DarkStylistnothing
11:17:17ZagorDarkStylist: did what? you need to explain in detail what you do and what happens.
11:18:22DarkStylisthardware wiz asks for drivers
11:18:40DarkStylistcd has none
11:18:42DarkStylistchcked
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11:19:01ZagorDarkStylist: there is no driver, ignore that. turn off the player and then insert the usb cable.
11:21:48DarkStylistok will try
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11:26:32DarkStylistok did that
11:26:44DarkStylistplayer starts when i insert cable
11:26:55DarkStylistwont popup in my computer
11:28:04DarkStylistand now i got same damn popup :(
11:30:38diurnambulei havent been there since a while, do you know if ipods photo crashing error dued to frequency scaling have been corrected ?
11:31:12advcomp2019DarkStylist, try booting into the OF and then plugging it in
11:31:16LinusNDarkStylist: i believe you should hold the Left button while starting the player
11:34:23safetydanwell good to see the motorola phone guy has started posting on our forums
11:36:33ZagorI though the e200 started OF when USB is connected?
11:37:33DarkStylisthmm nothing works
11:37:40DarkStylisttried your advices
11:38:21ZagorDarkStylist: are you running rockbox?
11:38:29DarkStylistnope
11:38:29markunDarkStylist: if you hold the left button while booting you go into rockbox?
11:38:35DarkStylistjust got the player
11:38:53ZagorDarkStylist: so you have not installed rockbox on it yet?
11:39:13DarkStylistnope cant install rockbox if i cant find the device
11:39:29Zagorgee, those "little" details would be rather nice to know, you know...
11:39:30markunI knew we forgot to ask him something :)
11:40:20markunis the Sansa MTP or UMS?
11:40:28Zagorif the e200 is like the c200 there is a "usb mode" setting in the menu. make sure it's "MSC" and not "automatic"
11:40:47DarkStylistthx
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11:41:57DarkStylistmsc on
11:42:17DarkStylistTHANX DUDE
11:42:23DarkStylistthat helped :)
11:42:39DarkStylistrockbox install is just to drop inside right?
11:42:46Zagornext time, please describe your whole situation when asking for help
11:42:49*pondlife wonders if there's any way to charge a Nano without anything vaguely shaped like a dock. :/
11:43:01pondlifeAt least, not an
11:43:06pondlifeApple dock
11:43:16ZagorDarkStylist: no there's a little more than that. it's documented in the manual.
11:43:36*pondlife hammers a USB cable in at the end of the slot and hopes for the best.
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11:47:16DarkStylistwheres rockbox manual btw?
11:47:41Zagorhttp://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
11:49:49amiconnpondlife: You just need the standard ipod cable
11:50:18pondlifeSadly, I don't have one of those.
11:50:32pondlifeI have a disassembled Nano, and that's about it.
11:50:56pondlifeI see no obvious burn marks, and want to try making smoke.
11:51:55pondlifehttp://pinouts.ru/Devices/ipod_pinout.shtml might help
11:52:57pondlifeShould just connecting the 2 USB power pins be enough to start charging, or is there more to it?
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11:53:30Zagorthat should be all, afaik
11:54:16pondlifeHmm, don't think my eyesight and hands are up to it.. maybe I'll pop out and buy a cable.
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12:05:12DarkStylistok question
12:05:20DarkStylistin rockbox utility folder
12:05:34DarkStylisti put the sansa build folder?
12:06:42markunDarkStylist: I think you just need to run the utility and it will download everything it needs
12:08:40markunis it not working?
12:08:55DarkStylistnope
12:09:02DarkStylistno sansa found error
12:09:50markunif nobody knows how to fix that, you could try the "manual installation"
12:10:14DarkStylistheh i might just play with that tool
12:11:15DarkStylisthmm it installed it :D
12:12:05markunweird
12:12:08DarkStylisthow to check that it worked?
12:12:15markunreboot?
12:12:32markunrockbox looks very different. You'll know if it has worked.
12:12:37DarkStylistboots to sansa firmware
12:13:22markundoesn't sound like it worked then
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12:13:49DarkStylistok guess i forgot bootloader that stuff are needed :)
12:15:04markunI never tried the rockbox util, but I'm pretty sure it should have installed the bootloader
12:15:30DarkStylistrockbox installed dude :)
12:17:32DarkStylistman this os rocks :D
12:19:01markuncongrats
12:19:15DarkStylistexcellent work guys
12:19:21DarkStylistu did an os that i love
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12:23:53DarkStylisthmm now sansa wont start when i press menu
12:24:00DarkStylistanything i did wrong?
12:25:34DarkStylistnm it fixed itself
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12:32:00Bagderyay
12:32:05 Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
12:32:10*Bagder figured out one of the v2 checksums
12:32:33Zagornice!
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12:33:07Bagderperhaps I should try a few more .bin files first... :-)
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12:39:52DarkStylistguys i love this rockbox
12:40:07DarkStylistmight install its games
12:41:22Bagderyou already did
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12:44:46Bagderyes, it works
12:45:44DarkStylistemus too :)
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12:46:03DarkStylistit feels like a cheap pocketpc :)
12:46:04*Bagder referred to his checksum work
12:46:25DarkStylistbought mine sansa cheap 40$
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12:51:48Bagdermy v2 page is now updated with this info, and a small source code to generate the checksum
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13:11:57DarkStylisthehe mod xm and that kinds of files i just drop em in root?
13:12:04DarkStylist(im new )
13:12:17Zagorfiles can be put anywhere you like
13:13:29DarkStylistsweet
13:13:53DarkStylisti feel like i have a pocketpc with this excellent os
13:14:02DarkStylistgood work guys :)
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13:23:11DarkStylisthow do i add mod support?
13:24:59 Quit petur ("gonne")
13:25:48aliaskjhMikeS: Around?
13:28:43aliaskIf I'm running a bootloader which is initially loaded at a virtual address, which is then changed during memory remapping, which address should I use in boot.lds?
13:29:16DarkStylisti cant play mod mid xm :(
13:30:34aliaskDarkStylist: For MIDI you should read this http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMidiPlay
13:31:07DarkStylistadd tracker formats support?
13:32:28amiconnFor .mod there is a patch in the tracker, which needs clarifying its license in order to be committed
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13:33:24amiconn.xm is not supported. Someone said that he was trying to port dumb, but so far with no result afaik
13:33:37linuxstbaliask: You should use the address after remapping, and the code in crt0.S must perform that remapping, and also take care of branching to the remapped code afterwards.
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13:34:09linuxstbaliask: The code in crt0-pp.S is one example of this I think.
13:34:32linuxstb(in PP, RAM is initially mapped to either 0x10000000 or 0x28000000 and Rockbox remaps it to 0x0)
13:34:41aliasklinuxstb: So the remapping must be inline rather than in another function?
13:35:41linuxstbThat's how I would do it.
13:36:00DarkStylistwhere i download the mod stuff?
13:36:07aliaskOk, I'll take a look
13:36:20linuxstbaliask: What remapping are you planning to do?
13:36:32ZagorDarkStylist: it's not something you just download. it's a patch that must be compiled in.
13:37:00DarkStylistmaybe they will come in future
13:37:44aliasklinuxstb: Just 0x80000000 -> 0x0 for the time being.
13:38:24DarkStylistguys my sansa seem booted wrongly
13:38:38DarkStylistthe blue wheel only lights up
13:38:43DarkStylistwont boot at all now
13:38:48DarkStylistcant close it
13:38:52DarkStylistany solutions?
13:39:15TuplanollaDarkStylist: hold the menu button for 20sec
13:39:26TuplanollaThat should turn it off
13:39:36DarkStylistthx dude
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13:40:14DarkStylisthmm a friend ran mod support on his rockbox how could he?
13:42:36jhMikeSaliask: yez
13:42:38 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
13:43:10aliaskjhMikeS: Looks like linuxstb has pointed me in the right direction for now.
13:43:19*jhMikeS reads back
13:43:43DarkStylisti could need some games on this system :)
13:44:17jhMikeSremapping on pp must be done from IRAM code anyway
13:44:26aliaskIs that PP specific?
13:44:42aliaskOr would I need to copy the bootloader to IRAM on the S as well?
13:45:20jhMikeSif you move the address and the old address is now invalid, probably
13:45:55jhMikeSPP just mirrors the ram during remap if it's not hidden by the remapping
13:46:11FebsI justed mentioned this on #rockbox-community, but it seems appropriate here: I sent jeanreno an e-mail letting him know that there are many admirers of his logo, that there is consideration for using it in the official Rockbox theme, but that we need permission to do so, and asking him to check out the forum thread regarding the default theme contest.
13:47:32DarkStylisti wonder if the xmplay devs would port xmplayer plugins to rockbox
13:47:42jhMikeSIn PP a small stub is copied to IRAM that does the remapping then execution continues in the remapped area or should. Thinking about that brings something to check to mind now. :)
13:49:17FebsDamn. The e-mail just bounced back. "Account inactive."
13:51:19*jhMikeS is getting tired of the codecs in the sim rebuilding every single time :\
13:56:03preglowjhMikeS: commenting out talk_shutup() makes my disappearing status bar problem vanish
13:56:19preglowjhMikeS: it's a problem that only happens at startup, when i have the file screen as my startup screen
13:56:42preglowjhMikeS: if i keep it in, my status bar takes half a second in appearing, thanks to talk_shutup() spending a lot of time doing something
13:56:47preglowit's happened some time during the last month
13:56:57jhMikeStalk_shutup will send a message to the voice thread which is waiting for the audio thread to initialize the audio hardware
13:57:41preglowwell, but will talk_shutup wait for the voice thread to reply?
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13:58:39jhMikeSsure will
13:58:45preglowouch
13:58:48preglowany good ideas on how to fix it?
13:59:25jhMikeStalk_force_shutup will call mp3_play_stop
14:00
14:00:11jhMikeSplenty. I just don't know which one I wish to take :)
14:01:26preglowother people have seen it too, amiconn could reproduce it using some voice settings, but i don't see how those apply now that i know the real reason
14:01:39jhMikeSOne thing that also needs to change is if the clip fills the pcm buffer and playback isn't running, the PCM buffer won't ever get started, so the clip won't play
14:01:41preglowapparently the main menu doesn't have the problem
14:02:44jhMikeSI knew the SB thing was there and it was before speex
14:03:03jhMikeSdoes mp3_play_stop get called alot?
14:03:47preglowno idea
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14:07:16jhMikeSwhere is talk_shutup used that it's causing a problem?
14:07:31preglowgimme a sec
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14:08:03preglowtree.c:499, gui_synclist_speak_item()
14:08:10 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
14:08:18preglowcommenting that out removes the problem
14:08:19DarkStylisthmm midi plugin gives me errors
14:08:25DarkStylistbuffer stuff
14:08:34DarkStylistcan that be fixed ?
14:08:55preglowDarkStylist: probably _can_ be fixed, yes, but you aren't very specific here
14:09:12DarkStylistok let me check
14:09:36DarkStylistBuffer miss!
14:09:53DarkStylistprints that allover all the time
14:10:01DarkStylistplays the file choppy too
14:12:08jhMikeSpreglow: gui_synclist_speak_item explicitely stops voice? Not needed on SWCODEC to do that stuff.
14:12:24DarkStylisti downloaded the pluginfile
14:12:35preglowjhMikeS: it calls talk_shutup(), yes
14:12:57DarkStylistdownloaded rockbox patchset
14:13:08preglowDarkStylist: where did you download it?
14:13:15jhMikeSwhich file has the implementation?
14:13:19DarkStylistrockbox page
14:13:30DarkStylistu gave me a link earlier
14:13:35preglowi surely haven't
14:13:42DarkStylistsome of u guys did
14:13:47pregloware you using the simulator, or a real player?
14:13:48DarkStylistlemme check
14:14:14preglowthat Buffer miss message should never be seen unless you're actually running a rockbox simulator
14:14:25preglowlemme check? you don't remember if you're using rockbox on a pc or an mp3 player?
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14:15:32DarkStylistim using it oin sandisk sansa
14:15:36DarkStylistwanted to check url
14:16:25DarkStylistin history
14:16:31preglowok
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14:16:34DarkStylistusing patchset tbz2
14:16:42preglowthen you're probably just using a midi that's too heavy for midiplay to cope with right now
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14:27:20DarkStylistcan u suggest a lighter version?
14:29:10DarkStylistof the midi set
14:29:26jhMikeSpreglow: you could switch mp3_play_stop to use queue_post if "instant" stop isn't needed for that. put queue_remove_from_head before that.
14:32:02jhMikeSthen voice_stop should use queue_send directly too
14:42:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:43:56DarkStylisti wonder how a friend of mine managed to play mod on rockbox
14:44:08DarkStylistwhen u say mod/xm isnt supported.
14:45:10preglowthere's a patch for .mod
14:46:59linuxstbDarkStylist: You can either a) download the patch, apply the changes in the patch to the Rockbox source code, and compile your own version of Rockbox with MOD support; or b) Download a build made by someone else which already includes this patch - the "unsupported builds" forum probably has at least one.
14:48:11markunDarkStylist: and you can always ask your friend how he did it
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14:53:06linuxstbFebs: Are you suggesting making jeanreno's logo at least semi-official? ;)
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14:53:57FebsThere was interest in the "Default theme constest" forum thread in using it in a theme that is being considered as the default.
14:53:59preglowwhich logo is that?
14:54:47Febspreglow: the one shown in this image: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10030.0;attach=2218;image
14:55:05preglowjhMikeS: i don't knows if "instant" stop is needed
14:55:36preglowi like that logo, but it breaks up even at that reso
14:55:41preglowit can barely be read
14:55:57preglowpretty decent wps, btw
14:55:58FebsI personally like that logo a lot, and I know many others do as well, but it's a moot point if we don't have permission to use it.
14:56:09preglowFebs: and that permission can't be gotten?
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14:57:06Febspreglow: the text breaks up perhaps, but the graphic itself is very scalable, works in color or black and white, and is a nice combination of concepts (ie, can be interpreted either as an "R" or a quarter note).
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14:57:12jhMikeSI don't think it quite portrays what it seems meant to
14:57:30preglowFebs: which are all moot if it's unusable at low resolutions
14:57:41preglowFebs: but i think that can be remedied anyway, but we'd need source files
14:57:56jhMikeSyou want an AI file of it?
14:58:07*amiconn thinks a default theme should *not* include album artz
14:58:09amiconn-z
14:58:11Febspreglow: agreed. It is more usable at low resolution than the existing logo in any event.
14:58:19amiconnAnd I still don't like that alternative logo...
14:58:24preglowamiconn: i think it should include possibility for it, but should be nice without it too
14:58:53linuxstbFebs: Yes, I quite like it too - the box works nicely as a icon as well.
14:58:56Febsamiconn: the discussion in that thread yesterday is that if album art is not present, the theme should work without having a big blank space where the album art would otherwise be.
14:59:13preglowwhat about just centering the text across that space?
14:59:18preglowahh, yes
14:59:23preglowthat's probably what you meant
14:59:27linuxstbThe downside is that Rockbox will search for cover bmps, but I still think the default theme should support album-art.
14:59:33preglowme too
14:59:36jhMikeSlet's turn WPS into a scripting language then :)
14:59:41Febspreglow: yeah, I could have articulated that better.
14:59:42preglowperl! :D
14:59:42amiconnThat theme looks somewhat decent, in that it's at least readable unlike many others, and doesn't waste lots of space for useless buttons
15:00
15:00:03amiconnThere are just the 2 points I dislike about it: (1) the wrong logo (2) album art
15:00:12preglowand the album art doesn't have to be there
15:00:18linuxstbamiconn: The logo has been changed now.
15:00:28preglowi don't see a reason for the logo to stay in the wps either
15:00:36preglowbut i guess it's ok
15:00:59*jhMikeS doesn't like the bee colors
15:01:01linuxstbIt's harder to adapt WPSs dynamically to album art on portrait screens though
15:01:12preglowjhMikeS: they're not my favourite, but i have seen far worse wpses
15:01:40*preglow doesn't like the "next song" thing in wpses
15:01:42preglownever have
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15:01:53jhMikeSme too...less saturation and some other hue and it would look better.
15:01:58preglowbut i guess that's a matter of taste, and most peope will probably like it
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15:05:26DarkStylisti guess i'll wait till mod/xm becomes official
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15:07:07preglowDarkStylist: might take a while
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15:07:46preglowjhMikeS: difference between queue_post and queue_send is...?
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15:09:19DarkStylistwhy not co-work on t6hat stuff with the auhtor of xmplay?
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15:10:05jhMikeSpreglow: queue_post puts a message in a queue and that's it. queue_send waits for a response from the thread.
15:10:29preglowjhMikeS: well, would this be a proper fix?
15:11:02jhMikeSI think so.
15:11:11preglowjhMikeS: i'll give it a try
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15:11:53preglowlinuxstb: saw you removed some mallocs from libm4a, good going, but do you think we should try to stuff seektables in spare codec memory, or in the file buffer?
15:12:48preglowlinuxstb: and the remaining mallocs are seek table only, yes?
15:13:01jhMikeSthought it's really just an issue until the voice thread is ready to wait for message where it will always service the queue immediately
15:14:34linuxstbpreglow: I think Lear is looking at that (or at least, started to look at it). The problem is that the seektables are quite big (they contain information on every frame).
15:14:56preglowlinuxstb: how big are we talking here?
15:15:10preglowjhMikeS: voice_stop() doesn't do any queue handling at all, i should add some, you say?
15:15:14amiconnjhMikeS, preglow: I've seen a delayed status bar in other situations than just boot
15:15:22preglowamiconn: this will fix it in all cases
15:15:34 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
15:15:35amiconnFor instance, it happens when leaving test_codec, and the plugin browser reappears
15:15:36jottis there some documentation on how to create/use custom threads in a plugin?
15:15:49preglowamiconn: really, now, that's weird
15:15:58preglowamiconn: we shouldn't have to wait for hw init in that case
15:16:12preglowjott: not apart from plugins that do exactly that, no
15:16:16jhMikeSif it happens leaving test_codec, it should when leaving mpegplayer just the same
15:16:36*preglow never tried mpegplayer on h120...
15:17:18jhMikeSwhat about after recording?
15:17:24preglowjott: check out test_codec.c
15:18:10jottthanks, will do...
15:18:16jhMikeSjott: the wiki is a bit out of date btw so various plugins are a better reference.
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15:18:55*preglow just unpacked a nano rockbox to his h120...
15:19:18jhMikeSif it works, what does that mean? :P
15:19:58preglowdidn't work, heh
15:20:00preglowanyway
15:20:06preglowafter recording, it displays as it should
15:20:14preglowbut the root menu never had this problem
15:21:06jhMikeSlike I said, I noticed it for some time but I don't know why it would've happened before the change
15:21:45amiconntest_codec is a pretty complex example. There are other plugins which create their own thread(s)
15:21:56GodEater_"quarter note" ?
15:22:04GodEater_oh - weird. When I was taught music, that was a crotchet.
15:22:11preglowamiconn: you don't need to understand what test_codec does to see how to create a thread
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15:23:14preglowamiconn: doesn't happen after test_codec here
15:23:48preglowman, mp3 is pretty fast on h120
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15:24:20amiconnI have the impression that it depends on target type
15:24:32amiconnMaybe the pcm code behaves differently
15:24:35preglowamiconn: it does, and at least that supports the theory it's because of hw init
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15:25:08preglowjhMikeS: voice_stop() doesn't do any queue handling at all, i should add some, you say?
15:25:27jhMikeSit doesn't? it calls mp3_play_stop
15:25:49jottthat's what i've got so far: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enPZRQ9sttw ... i wonder if there is some information on how to integrate a custom album browser (my demo is static) as in getting album names and cover filenames from the db and play them?!
15:26:06jhMikeSmove the queue code from mp3_play_stop into that, then replace the queue_send in mp3_play_stop with queue_remove_from_head and queue_post
15:26:07preglowjhMikeS: oh right, so i only needed to chance mp3_play_stop() ?
15:26:21preglowriiight, ok
15:26:55jhMikeSvoice_stop is meant to guarantee immediate synchronous stop
15:27:06preglowjhMikeS: any reason queues don't have their own mutex?
15:27:42preglowi guess it's nice to be able to directly control when locking happens
15:27:56jhMikeSwhy would they need one? they would no matter what threading type and only need a spinlock on multcore
15:28:06jhMikeS*wouldn't
15:28:28jhMikeSqueues are thread safe, the mutex in voice is for another reason entirely
15:28:34jpt9I just got a replacement e250 from Woot...
15:28:41jpt9the wheel doesn't work quite right...
15:28:46jpt9anyway... in terms of rockbox...
15:28:53jpt9it says "Sansa not found".
15:29:00jpt9how do I tell if it's a v2?
15:29:08preglowjhMikeS: any reason voice_mutex is locked in mp3_play_stop, then? nothing else happens than mucking around witht the queue
15:29:41krazykitjpt9, is it in msc mode? to tell if it's v2, i believe you check the OF's version
15:29:41Tuplanollajpt9: turn it around and look at the lower right.
15:30:03jpt9it is in MSC mode..
15:30:09jpt9there's no "v2" on the back...
15:30:24jhMikeSbecause we could be doing something else and put a message in between when only message from the operation should be processed
15:30:29jpt9should I paste version.txt in here?
15:30:34krazykitjpt9, are you sure it's not a Rhapsody model?
15:30:38krazykitjpt9, no, don't paste in here
15:30:51jpt9it doesn't say "R" on the back...
15:30:58krazykitneither do many others
15:31:17krazykitwhen you turn on the player, it says "Rhapsody" and there are Rhapsody channels in the menu
15:31:24jpt9and there's no Rhapsody menu item or logo n the back.
15:31:26*preglow doesn't like all the device specific code in apps/
15:31:44preglowseems to be some sh/mas specific stuff hanging around
15:32:05jpt9any ideas?
15:32:37krazykitjpt9, i can't help any further as i have to leave, but we've at least determined you have a non-r and non-v2 model.
15:32:40preglowjhMikeS: voice_stop calls talk_force_shutup, which calls mp3_play_stop
15:32:56preglowjhMikeS: seems kind of redundant, voice_stop will already have told the voice thread to stop what it's doing
15:33:02preglowjhMikeS: but i guess it's needed for hwcodec
15:33:48jpt9is there any safe way to attempt a manual install?
15:35:39preglowjhMikeS: at least the queue_post in mp3_play_stop() seems to have helped
15:36:44jpt9i'm an idiot...
15:36:50jpt9i forgot to run rbutil as admin.
15:37:02jpt9i haven't discovered a new species of e250 :-)
15:38:13jhMikeSvoice_stop still needs the synchronous call, the asychronous one will be a noop for the voice thread
15:39:01jpt9omg...
15:39:06jpt9"disabling database rebuild?!"
15:39:09jpt9you guys ROCK!!!
15:40:16preglowwell, i should cough up a voice file and check if stuff works still, then
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15:41:15jpt9oh yeah...
15:41:16jhMikeSpreglow: if you didn't leave anything in the changes I suggested it will :)
15:41:21webguest63Hrm... It's getting cold. No commits since yesterday!
15:41:30jpt9I'm not going to be doing it now, but how hard is it to uninstall rockbox from an e250R?
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15:42:39preglowjhMikeS: you never know with me, so i'll go ahead and try...
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15:44:28linuxstbpreglow: I'm not sure exactly how big the seektables can be, but from what Lear was saying I get the impression that 512KB isn't always enough for huge AAC files (e.g. 1GB).
15:45:05preglowroit
15:45:17preglowaac doesn't have much codec buffer space left anyway
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15:45:43linuxstbAre you looking at removing the mallocs from the codec itself?
15:45:46preglowjhMikeS: seems to me like voice clips now don't really stop soon enough when you switch menu entries, i'll post a patch...
15:45:49preglowlinuxstb: deed
15:47:03preglowjhMikeS: http://www.pvv.org/~thomj/rockbox/roflbot.diff
15:47:14preglowlinuxstb: not much mallocing left, so it's tempting
15:47:22preglowlinuxstb: like i've said before, tremor is the real sinner
15:47:40linuxstbIs that with the Ogg parsing, or the codec (or both)?
15:47:49preglowcodec is the worst
15:47:51preglowafaik
15:48:04preglowogg parsing should be able to take the same kind of treatment you gave mp4
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15:52:03preglowjhMikeS: for some reason, it behaves better now...
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16:02:01jhMikeSpreglow: I think you got used to the snappier response
16:02:25preglowjhMikeS: but the patch looks good?
16:03:10*jhMikeS doesn't know why he's having trouble just viewing that in the browser now :\
16:03:21preglowshruggy
16:03:24jhMikeSyou're mime types messed up for diff?
16:03:38preglowprobably, i don't know, i'm not the server admin
16:04:01preglowi can view them from here, but doesn't seem the server says they're plain text
16:04:41jhMikeSyeah, it's cool. add the LOGFQUEUES too though
16:04:55jhMikeS">" for post, ">|" for send
16:05:05preglowroit
16:05:40preglowwill commit and see what happens
16:06:03preglowjhMikeS: add a logf for the remove_from_head too, or?
16:07:31preglowwhat should the voice_stop line say= "voice >| voice ..." or still "mp3 >| voice ..." ?
16:08:12 Join scorche|w [0] (n=42c007b2@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
16:09:46jhMikeSpreglow: nah, we know that happens
16:10:02jhMikeSmp3>|voice
16:10:31preglowaights
16:10:49jhMikeSThat was meant to id the thread sending the message I guess. A better thing would be to use the thread name.
16:11:05preglowyeah, i figured
16:11:13preglowwould be indeed, is there a way to get that?
16:11:57preglowamiconn: fix commited, please try out
16:12:05jhMikeSto get it properly you need to use thread_get_name
16:13:09preglowgah, tremor is fully of variable size mallocs
16:13:37preglowi guess i should just go through this and try to find some good max sizes
16:13:37jhMikeStrying to nix the malloc buffer now?
16:13:41preglowyes
16:13:47preglowthat would be sweet
16:14:01preglow512kb really should be enough for most sane codecs + data
16:14:07jhMikeSI want to let voice run with IRAM using plugins
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16:14:30preglowis that a problem currently?
16:14:38preglowi thought plugins only stole codec iram
16:14:42jhMikeSSome mods with plugin_get_audio_buffer are needed so it can request a voiceable config.
16:14:44amiconnCan't test atm. Not @home, and today I chose a hwcodec target :)
16:14:53preglowamiconn: no hurry
16:16:06preglowtremor also does a ton of realloc
16:16:11preglowthe dirty bastard
16:16:36 Join pixelma [0] (i=d5494dd2@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
16:16:51jhMikeSextra pcm buffer for crossfade should also not be alloced when the buffer is only voiceable. shouldn't be too hard.
16:19:58n1spreglow: iirc tomal reintroduced (all) mallocing in tremor to make it work on the ifp
16:20:12pregloweh?
16:20:25*preglow doesn't see how that helps
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16:20:38jhMikeShit the revision log :)
16:21:01preglownah, if i do the static buffer business properly, he'll have greater freedom for trading off what files to allow anyway
16:21:24n1sr11610 but it seems i was wrong it's not all of it
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16:28:10*preglow goes hunting for the dithering bug
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16:30:18preglowreally, volume peaks are almost 6 times bigger with crossfeed than without
16:30:22preglowthat's rather silly
16:30:45preglowi wonder how the hell it's possible
16:31:08 Quit kubiix ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
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16:32:51jhMikeSis that true on coldfire as well?
16:32:55 Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955F8FE.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:33:47preglowonly tried on sim, really, but was reported on target
16:33:54 Quit jpt9 ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
16:34:11preglowreported on x5
16:34:35jhMikeSthere sure ain't > 15dB headroom for sure :)
16:34:40preglowthe output os _JUST_ within bounds after crossfeed, the dither apparently pushes it over the edge
16:35:00jhMikeSthe dither should clip though, not wrap
16:35:12preglownot if adding the bias pushes it over the edge
16:35:32jhMikeSoh, you're talking pushing it passed the int32 range
16:35:41preglowoh yes
16:35:45preglowwouldn't be a problem otherwise
16:35:52jhMikeScheck the bounds before adding the corrections
16:35:55preglowi'm just wondering how crossfeed can add so much gain to a signal
16:36:17preglowjhMikeS: this really isn't a dithering problem, it's probably a crossfeed one
16:36:25preglowi think it adds too much bass boost thanks to the comb filtering
16:36:41preglowhrm, no, that really shouldn't be possible
16:36:51jhMikeSyou won't get combing there?
16:37:10preglowwell, in a way
16:37:40preglowlow freqency content is mostly correlated across channels, so the lower frequency range will be kind of comb filtered
16:38:10jhMikeSI'd think that would boost it since the phase would match better for any delay
16:38:41preglowcombing can be boosting, it depends on the frequency range you're talking about
16:38:58preglowcrossfeed adds one hell of a bass boost, though, i can hear that
16:39:17preglowbut a 6 time gain? i don't get it
16:39:53preglowthe track went from peak 1.7 to peak 7.9969...
16:40:04preglownormalized, that is, actual_peak/2^28 for mp3
16:41:03jhMikeSwell, if the sinusoids are in phase they'll surely reinforce one another. Do I have to figure out exacly what it'll be? I'm working on other maths. :)
16:41:35 Quit pixelma ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
16:42:02preglowif two sinusoids are mixed exactly in phase, the result will be double amplitude
16:42:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:42:15preglowso, if i mix two perfectly identical signals, the result will be double gain
16:42:18preglowand i'm not even doing that
16:42:23preglowi'm stuffing gains all over the place
16:42:38pregloweven filtering, which i somehow suspect is the problem, now
16:43:04 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection)
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16:45:28jhMikeSof course but I don't feel like figuring out the precise amplitude factor for mixing by phase difference. It's just a simple trig identity anyway.
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16:46:57preglowjhMikeS: like, left channel is left*-1db + delayed_right*-6db, and -16 at higher freqs
16:47:26preglowjhMikeS: i don't see how the flaming hell that can result in peaks at 4 times the original amplitude
16:48:57jhMikeSyou got a hidden integrator in there somewhere? :)
16:49:50preglowi should plot the time domain response of the filter i use
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16:51:33jhMikeSimpulse?
16:52:00preglowyeah
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16:53:20preglowehh
16:53:55jhMikeSproblem?
16:54:21preglowthis is weird, i've stuffed in overflow detection in the dithering function, and the overflows it detects are just... weird
16:54:38preglowinput at barely 1.6, output at -6....
16:54:43preglowperhaps i've borked the noise shaper
16:54:45 Quit TMM ("Ex-Chat")
16:55:24jhMikeSthe tri-pdf is fine
16:55:30preglowthat's not part of it
16:55:47jhMikeSwell, that's the dither part
16:56:21preglowhmmm
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16:56:41jhMikeSmy plots didn't seem to show any problem but I don't think I looked at the magnitude of the total pdf :\
16:57:05preglowthis is revealing stuff
16:57:20DarkStylistso how long for tracker formats support on rockbox?
16:57:25preglowmax peak before noise shaping is 1.5...
16:57:29preglowafter noise hsaping, 7....
16:58:09preglowif i remove the noise shaper, all is well
16:58:14 Part diurnambule
16:58:15preglowi'll have to take a look at this bastard
17:00
17:00:13n1sDarkStylist: we don't predict timelines
17:00:33n1s...baceause someone broke the chrystal ball :(
17:05:28jhMikeSpreglow: weird. my simulation of it shows the same distribution width with or without the noise shaper. :|
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17:06:05preglowi really, really can't see how the hell this thing can boost the output levels so completely
17:06:15preglowunless the errors get really large, and that should never happen
17:06:55jhMikeSit should be highly unlikely in any case but not impossible
17:09:47preglowno, but it would be a bug
17:10:06*preglow misses floating point
17:12:28amiconnpreglow: Wouldn't the error values become quite large if clipping kicks in?
17:12:51amiconndither->error[0] is determined *after* clipping
17:13:42jhMikeSif clipping kicks in yeah, it would be exactly that
17:14:25preglowhmm
17:14:27preglowgood point
17:14:31preglowand this file does clip like a bitch
17:14:50preglowand really, noise shaping shouldn't care about clipping
17:14:52amiconnSo if it clips, the dither error feedback makes it clip even more....
17:14:52preglowit doesn't make sense
17:15:07preglowi think you just found the bug, yes
17:15:10jhMikeSI'm not seeing a problem with it in my simulation with keep saturation out of the picture
17:15:49amiconnIiuc lines 493..496 need to be put before clipping
17:15:54jhMikeSyou still need to protect against wrapping though
17:16:10jhMikeSif you clip, make the error 0?
17:16:44preglowyeah
17:16:47amiconnI'd dither first, then clip. Overflowing the headroom should be impossible afaiu - unless there's a bug like this
17:18:03jhMikeSthe 24db headroom + adding the errors could possibly do it though
17:18:12 Quit CaptainSquid ("Miranda IM!")
17:18:18jhMikeS+ the tri-pdf
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17:22:38jhMikeSit can produce > 1 bit of error so maybe perhaps
17:22:46preglowit's possible
17:22:51preglowbut overflows are always possible
17:22:57preglowcan't do anything about that except add more headroom
17:27:12preglowi'll just have a look at common practices here, and fix it
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17:32:40preglowamiconn: moving the lines work fine, yeah
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17:36:51preglowyeah, error should be taken before clipping
17:36:53preglow\o/
17:38:42rasherGreat, now moos made the czech translator do his translation by hand, when there was basically nothing wrong with it as far as I can tell.
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17:41:24preglowhahaha
17:41:58preglowthen tell him so
17:42:42rasherJust did.
17:44:13jhMikeSpreglow: aren't you just irritated by now about the codecs always linking. It's really bugging me trying to do plugin work in the sim.\
17:44:43preglowjhMikeS: i love it, it's way better than them only linking after two make sessions for target
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17:44:54preglowhaving this shit fixed would be just great, but i hate makefiles
17:45:32jhMikeSeck...y yo los odeo tambien
17:45:48preglowi know what "tambien" means :P
17:45:51preglowbut that's that
17:45:58 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
17:46:09jhMikeSeck...and I hate them too :)
17:46:24preglowthought you said they were fun, heh
17:46:37preglowmy irony detecter might have been messing up, though
17:46:42jhMikeSonly in the most ironic sense of "fun"
17:47:10 Quit japc (Remote closed the connection)
17:47:20preglowjhMikeS: but yeah, the dithering we do seemed fine in any other way?
17:47:21 Join Rob222241 [0] (n=Miranda@p54B16741.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:47:39jhMikeSseems so
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17:51:13preglowjhMikeS: hmm, i think i've found an fir filter that is optimal for dithering
17:51:35preglowjhMikeS: it uses five taps, though, don't know if that's too much for us
17:51:40jhMikeSThat dither routines gives me about 1.303 error bits
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17:52:03 Nick webguest69 is now known as Vair (i=18cbcd86@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-1bc063365cc6f790)
17:52:15VairHi guys
17:52:41jhMikeSpreglow: probably not for coldfire but I'm sure arm7 will choke
17:52:56preglowjhMikeS: http://osdir.com/ml/audio.audacity.scm/2006-09/msg00182.html, look for SHAPED_BS, i've seen that filter referenced several places
17:52:57jhMikeSdoes it use constants though?
17:53:00preglowjhMikeS: it does
17:54:08preglowthe noise shaper we use now isn't very aggressive, it seems to push 6 db of noise from around 4-6khz up to above 10khz
17:55:15preglowthis one is much more aggressive, filter response is almost 20db at nyquist
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17:58:59VairAnyone able to give me a little help with my busted mini 2g?
18:00
18:00:03*jhMikeS wants the link to the full source
18:00:45preglowjhMikeS: haven't looked at it, it's audacity, though, should be easy to find
18:00:51preglowwell, nice to have that out of my hair
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18:03:52n1sVair: you'r ebetter off juat asking your question
18:04:06Vair:) sure, hang on, phone
18:10:41jhMikeSpreglow: http://audacity.cvs.sourceforge.net/audacity/audacity-src/src/Dither.cpp?revision=1.8&view=markup
18:11:27 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
18:13:10VairOK, sorry about that.
18:13:25VairMy problem is with a 4gb iPod Mini 2g
18:13:50VairIt has a broken LCD
18:13:58Vairwhich is making things a bit vague
18:14:01preglowjhMikeS: would be pretty cool to add to targets than can stand it, wouldn't it?
18:14:11Vairbut, basically, I installed rockbox on it yesterday
18:14:22preglowjhMikeS: coldfire + emac would even be able to do it with circular buffer emac stuff
18:14:29preglow= fast
18:14:45Vairand after disconnecting it, the backlight stays on and the computer doesn't see it when it's connected now
18:15:30*jhMikeS wants to read about the mimimally-audible fir filter
18:15:34preglowjhMikeS: looks like our fir filter has taps 1, -0.5, 0.5
18:15:52VairI need some pointers on how to get the computer to see it (Mac 10.4)
18:15:59 Quit animeloe (Client Quit)
18:16:31jhMikeSthought it had five
18:17:27mud-rbVair: i believe with the ipods you need to get it to reboot back to the original firmware to access it by USB (rockbox's USB stack is not complete yet for targets that need software USB)
18:17:40preglowjhMikeS: well, it clearly has three taps :)
18:17:43preglowtalking our filter, here
18:17:51mud-rbi'm not sure if that happens automagically somehow. with the e200 i just reset it before i plug it in
18:17:55jhMikeSmisunderstood
18:18:07preglowjhMikeS: the lipshitz article is aes, in other words, pay-to-view, i'll see if i can get a hold of it, though
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18:18:32VairI guessed that might be necessary. The problem that I have is that I can't seem to do a thing with it.
18:18:46VairThe busted LCD really isn't helping
18:19:09mud-rbVair: well, if you can get it connect up, you could always use the rockbox interface designed for blind people i suppose
18:19:24Vairbut resetting by holding down select/menu doesn't power off the backlight as I would assume
18:20:03mud-rbVair: are you sure it's actually resetting? i know on my father's ipod it's sometimes really hard to get the buttons pressed correctly and for long enough without touching other buttons
18:20:42preglowjhMikeS: paper is called "Minimally Audible Noise Shaping"
18:20:48jhMikeSisn't it 1, -.5, 1?
18:21:08VairI don't think anything's happening at all... from what I understand, the backlight is supposed to be toggle-able by holding down the menu button for 2 secs but nothing's happening there.
18:21:59VairIs the spoken interface supposed to kick in by default? I'm not getting anything out of the headphones but then there's also no music loaded on it.
18:22:10mud-rbhmm, that i don't know anything about. you mean in the original firmware it does that? i'm pretty sure rockbox doesn't do that unless it's a feature only used on certain players
18:22:51linuxstbVair: Did you copy a voice file to your ipod?
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18:23:07VairYeah, I installed everything through the rbutil
18:23:20preglowjhMikeS: the /2 from error[1] gets get on to error[2]
18:23:31preglowjhMikeS: gets fed on to
18:24:29linuxstbVair: Then yes, Rockbox should speak by default, assuming you've installed everything correctly.
18:24:53preglowjhMikeS: besides, 1, -0.5, 1 is a notch filter
18:25:05preglowjhMikeS: not anything you'll see used in noise shaping often
18:25:08Vairhmm. I wish I could see that damn screen. My feeling is that the thing is just frozen.
18:25:57linuxstbVair: Hold MENU+SELECT is a hardware reset - it _always_ works unless a) The battery is extremely low; or b) something is broken in the hardware. (and of course, c) - you don't have the hold switch on)
18:26:09 Join lemur [0] (n=lemur@76.89.214.49)
18:26:14lemurHowdy folks
18:26:42lemurmy rockbox crashed and the system won't do anything... I can't even figure out how to do a hard reset
18:26:46lemuris there an escape sequence?
18:27:05lemurI'm not talking about bad firmware... just runtime error
18:27:06linuxstbWhat device are you running Rockbox on? They all have a hardware reset.
18:27:15lemurmine is sansa e250
18:27:22linuxstbHold POWER for about 10-15 seconds.
18:27:49lemurman
18:27:59lemurI thought of that but I guess I wasn't patient enough
18:28:02lemurlol
18:28:09mud-rbyeah, you have to hold it for quite a while
18:29:09jhMikeSpreglow: I guess I'm confused between taps and coefficients then
18:29:25preglowjhMikeS: the lipschitz filter does have an overall gain, though, i kinda of thought that wasn't supposed to be the case
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18:29:42preglowjhMikeS: well, ask and i might clear it up :)
18:30:01jhMikeSummm...what's the difference between taps and coefficients
18:30:49VairI've tried the MENU+SELECT combo (just been trying it again now) but really nothing's happening. Not having any LCD it's hard to know exactly what's going on there. The only indication I have is that the backlight is still stuck on and I'm not hearing anything out of the headphones - not even a faint click.
18:30:50jhMikeSI suppose I'm clear on coefficients
18:31:16preglowjhMikeS: a tap is either one delayed output or input
18:31:20VairIt's quite possible that there's a hardware problem (this is a toilet dropped ipod)
18:31:36preglowjhMikeS: well, input or output value at all, really, error[0..2] each constitute a tap
18:31:36Vairbut, apart from the screen, it was working yesterday before the RB install
18:31:56preglowjhMikeS: coefficients are just what you multiply tapped inputs/outputs by
18:32:04jhMikeSso if you have coeffs 1,.5,.5, the taps are 1,.5,.25?
18:32:30preglowno, the taps are whatever value the input/output has at that point in time, the coeffs are still 1, .5, .5
18:33:19preglowjhMikeS: our noise shaper really just uses a trick to not have to do one multiply, doing that would not work at all if the last two taps didn't have the same coef
18:34:22preglowthe usual way of doing this is sample += dither->error[0] - 0.5*dither->error[1] + 0.5*dither->error[2] \n dither->error[2] = dither->error[1]; \n dither->error[1] = dither->error[0];
18:34:54jhMikeSI figure that much already
18:35:08preglowand that's the way we'll do it if we use the new fir filter, but we'll try to eliminate all the filter memory reordering by using a circular buffer
18:35:11jhMikeSjust scaling it
18:35:26preglowat least for emac
18:35:50jhMikeSI used an address mask for ARM
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18:36:13preglowwill also work graet
18:36:27VairListen, here's another thing I noticed. After I installed RB, disconnected the mini, plugged it back in and found it wasn't showing up, I looked in /Volumes to see if it was there
18:36:51jhMikeSthe SPC codec just duplicates at +8
18:36:58Vairand there was a folder with the same name containing the .rockbox folder
18:37:25mud-rbVair: and that's not the player?
18:37:26*linuxstb spots someone with a clue in the Cowon D2 new port thread
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18:37:46VairNope, it was there the whole time, with the player connected to USB or not
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18:38:03Vairand I could tranfer files in and out in 0 seconds
18:38:27linuxstbVair: Yes, I sometimes get that - it can happen if you don't cleanly unmount/eject a device.
18:38:41VairI'm wondering if rbutil installed the bootloaded to the ipod and the .rockbox files to this phantom folder?
18:39:01linuxstbIt wouldn't have installed the bootloader, but it may very well have installed the .rockbox folder there.
18:39:18preglowanyone know if we support multiple streams in an ogg?
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18:39:25VairSo maybe I'm looking at an iPod that's booted with the bootloader and nothing to load?
18:39:39linuxstbpreglow: You mean chained oggs, or multiplexed streams?
18:39:44mud-rbVair: well, you should still be able to reset it. it's odd that nothing happens with menu+select...
18:39:49preglowlinuxstb: well, yeah, same thing
18:39:55linuxstbpreglow: No
18:40:03preglowbut we should, right?
18:40:47linuxstbI'm not sure - I was guess not though.
18:40:53VairYeah, the reset thing is annoying me
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18:41:04preglowwhy not? it's completely legal and potentially useful
18:41:26preglowi'm guessing we could use the entire cuesheet stuff to support it too
18:41:34linuxstbpreglow: It's madness... You would need to scan the entire file to index it.
18:41:34VairIs there any way of reaching this thing from the computer side?
18:42:04VairIf I could get it to reformat and start again that would be cool
18:42:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:42:29mud-rbVair: i don't tink so, unless you can get it to show up. worst case i guess you could wait for it to power off, but i'm not entirely sure how that's going to help unless you can get it to recognize when you hit keys...
18:42:33preglowlinuxstb: myeah, but i expect ogg to allow me to do that easily
18:42:44preglowlinuxstb: like contain a pointer to the end of the file, or something
18:42:46linuxstbVair: You need to enter disk mode - either MENU+SELECT followed by SELECT+PLAY (to enter the emergency disk mode), or MENU+SELECT followed by turning the hold switch on to start the original firmware.
18:43:06linuxstbpreglow: IIUC, chained oggs are simply "cat file1.ogg file2.ogg file3.ogg > chained.ogg"
18:43:09VairYeah, I let it discharge overnight (well I had no choice really) but that didn't help ;)
18:43:11preglowlinuxstb: correct
18:43:16VairI'll try that again linuxstb
18:43:31preglowi guess i should familiarize myself with ogg to see how it works
18:43:48linuxstbpreglow: I'm pretty sure this has been discussed in the past and rejected.
18:44:59preglowlinuxstb: probably
18:45:01linuxstbpreglow: If I remember correctly, there's no pointer to the end of the file - to work out the duration, you need to seek to the end, then seek back to find the last packet, and use the timestamp in that to work out the duration.
18:45:14preglowlinuxstb: in that case, it's quite out of the question, yeah
18:45:15VairI wish there was a paperclip sized hole I could use to reset this bugger
18:45:47mud-rbare the batteries in ipods changeable? you could open it up and take it out if so
18:46:00preglowVair: it really should be quite simple, make sure hold is off, then press the middle button and the part of the clickwheel that is directly above it simultaneously and keep it pressed until it reboots, if it doesn't, the battery is dead
18:46:22VairYep. If I disconnect the battery, and reconnect it though, won't it boot back with the bootloader?
18:46:36preglowit could be you have a faulty rockbox install too, of course, kind of hard to tell without knowing what the screen says
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18:46:49mud-rbVair: well that's what's going to happen if you get menu+select to work as well...
18:46:57preglowthough you should hear the hd start on a hd based ipod
18:47:24VairSo if I reconnect the battery and THEN slide the hold switch on, it should re-boot into the apple firmware?
18:47:42preglowgetting at that battery isn't simple
18:48:04preglowbut i need to go to the shops
18:48:05preglowlater
18:48:14VairI've opened it before so I can get at the battery
18:49:07mud-rbhonestly i think you're a little screwed if you can't get menu+select to work....i've never had that not work after repeated attempts. someone mentioned if the battery is really low it won't, maybe you've discharged the battery too much? (but that seems unlikely)
18:50:05VairI don't think it's the battery
18:50:19Slasherimake sure your fingertips are wet a bit
18:50:40Vairbut I'll go and plug it into the wall charger for a few hours and have another play with it
18:50:43Slasherithen press select (the center) and _after_ that menu immediately
18:51:10Slasherior was it that way, can't remember as i havent had the ipod for some time
18:51:57VairSlasheri: not getting any discernable response either way
18:52:07Slasherivery weird..
18:52:22VairOK, let's say I let it discharge completely
18:52:30Vairslide the hold switch to ON
18:52:49Vairplug it into the wall charger and let it suck up some juice
18:52:57Slasherialso make sure you don't touch any other parts of the clickwheel
18:53:03Slasheriand that the clickwheel is clean from dust
18:53:27Vairwould it boot into the apple firmware or the non-functioning RB side of things?
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18:53:41Slasheriyou can boot into disk mode
18:53:51Slasheriwhen it reboots, immediately hold down select and play
18:54:03Slasheriand slide hold switch on and it should boot into apple os
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18:54:13Slasheri*or slide down
18:56:37VairSlasheri: I've been trying that a lot but nothing doing yet. In case you missed the start ^ the LCD is busted on this iPod so it's hard to know what's happening but since I installed RB and disconnected, the backlight has stayed stuck on as long as the unit has had power. When I try to reset it the backlight stays on, which makes me think that it's not resetting. On the offchance that it is resetting and not affect
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18:58:46VairIt's possible that something in the ipod is damaged, preventing it from resetting manually. Alternatively, I can only imagine that something in the RB install is preventing it from resetting. Or that it is resetting and I just have no way of knowing...
18:59:33n1sVair: is it connected to usb/power?
18:59:52VairI installed the voice files via the rbutil but I haven't heard so much as a faint click out of it yet so, if I'm supposed to be hearing anything, RB is definitely not working
19:00
19:00:11Vairn1s: not right now. I've tried to reset it while connected and while disconnected
19:01:27mud-rbit seems like you'd hear at least something, even if it's just the electrical noise from the headphone jack being powered down and then up again (at least you can hear that quite clearly on my player)
19:01:40mud-rbi mean when you reset it of course, even if nothing on the display changes
19:02:00VairI would have expected that too mud-rb
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19:05:55amiconnVair: The reset is hardware controlled, nothing rockbox or any other piece of software could disable
19:07:49VairThere's no way that a faulty installation could muck it up?
19:08:20n1swhich leaves 3 options 1) you're doing it wrong 2) hardware is faulty 3) completely drained battery
19:08:22mud-rbVair: not the hardware reset, no
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19:09:10VairOK, so it is possible that the original damage to the iPod is blocking the manual reset.
19:09:23VairOooh. Backlight just went out.
19:09:29VairI think it's dischaged
19:09:55VairIf I slide the hold switch on BEFORE recharging it, is there a chance it will boot into the apple firmware?
19:11:25mud-rbi thought i saw something about those type of controls in the wiki, but i don't see them right this second...
19:11:54VairI'm giving it a try
19:12:06VairHere's another theory...
19:12:22VairAssume that something went wrong during the install
19:12:51VairThe ipod is unable to boot at all
19:13:18Vairand in turning on it's displaying the unhappy disk icon or whatever it shows when it's borked
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19:13:34scorche|wwe dont flash the device, so you would still have diskmode + button combos
19:13:47Vaironly, I can't see it because the screen isn't showing anything?
19:14:15Vairah. ok.
19:14:16 Nick thegeek_ is now known as thegeek (i=thegeek@s220b.studby.ntnu.no)
19:14:24mud-rbby the way, if you get it to work i'd recommend you try the manual install stuff, i've had much better luck with that on my player than the automatic install
19:14:33Vairlight came on for a second and I heard a click
19:15:01VairIT LIVES
19:15:14VairiTunes just presented it to me
19:16:52SlasheriVair: that is the empty battery icon
19:17:00Slasheriit boots automatically when it has enough charge
19:18:39Vairmud-rb: I had a really hard time with the install - it was mac formatted and it took me five or six goes to get the bootloader to install at all
19:19:00Slasheriyou must format it to fat32
19:19:05mud-rbah, i see
19:19:16Vairslasheri: I didn't explain that very well - it was a hypothetical icon since I can't see anything on the screen
19:19:29Slasheriah, hehe :)
19:19:44VairSlasheri: yep, I did format it, five or six times before it stuck
19:19:55Slasheri:/
19:20:06Vairthough I still don't know if it was successful or not since it's clearly not working ;)
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19:20:40VairI just took a look at what's on the disk and the .rockbox folder is empty
19:21:02Vairso I'm pretty sure the installation was not a raging success
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19:22:12mud-rbVair: haha, yeah that'd be a good assumption
19:23:03Vairso, I'm also guessing that the rockbox installation went into that folder I found in /Volumes with the same name as my iPod (who is called Zaphod)
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19:24:05VairWell now I know I can get my iPod back on the computer by discharging it and turning the hold switch on before recharging it I can play around with this some more
19:24:11mud-rbhahaha, maybe you shouldn't name it zaphod...rather unstable character :)
19:24:17Vairhaha
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19:29:02VairOh, quick, silly question that I couldn't figure out from flying through the manual yesterday: for rockbox to read music files, where do I put them? I'm right in thinking that I don't need to go through iTunes to install the music, aren't I? Do I just drag them onto the root of the iPod disk or what?
19:29:15 Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:29:42scorche|wyou can do whatever you wish
19:29:49mud-rbVair: they can be anywhere on the disk it seems like. i have a "MUSIC" directory i throw them all in
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19:30:02VairCool, thanks for the confirmation :)
19:30:26VairI'm going to manually install the rockbox package and see if I can get something to play.
19:30:35mud-rbgood luck
19:30:44VairDo I need to do anything with the voice files before they work or is it automagic?
19:31:39mud-rbpretty sure it's all set up to use them, you just install them and it works. you might want to read over the blind documentation to make sure you're doing it right, if you'll have to wait for it to discharge again if you fail that could get quite annoying
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19:33:09VairI'm in no real hurry. I have a 3g nano now - my girlfriend bought it for me the day my mini threw itself into the toilet because I curled up into a fetal position and stayed there.
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19:33:18 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
19:33:53LloreanAny build system wizards around?
19:34:17LloreanOr not even build system wizards, but people familiar with whatever language configure is?
19:34:38 Quit GodEater ("Leaving")
19:35:19mud-rbi /sort/ of know, but i wouldn't exactly call myself an expert
19:36:08Lloreanmud-rb: Well, I'm more looking for core dev feedback too.
19:37:15LloreanAnyway here's the idea: I've noticed a trend among people flash modding their HD based players, and was wondering what the various devs thought about adding a new option for advanced builds: "Flash Modified" and appropriate defines so that people who add a CF card into their mini, or whatnot, don't have to directly modify the code
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19:45:28 Part sixpoint
19:47:04preglowlinuxstb: yeah, looks like we're out of luck, ogg isn't a very helpful format when it comes to seeking
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19:50:31LearHuh?
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19:52:45Lebowski_i patched my e200r bootloader by following the steps from the wiki... i am trying to put a just a normal e200 firmware on it through "recovery mode" with no success... any advice?
19:55:59mud-rbwait, what? you're just trying to get rockbox install on your e200r, or are you trying to do something magical?
19:56:46GodEaterhe's trying to turn it into a vanilla E200
19:56:48Lebowski_i want to turn it into a e200 with rhapsody
19:56:53Lebowski_without
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19:57:24Lebowski_then i want to downgrade the firmware so its recognized by my mac
19:57:43LloreanLebowski_: And are you absolutely, 100% sure the steps from the wiki were successful because it simply sounds like those didn't succeed.
19:58:28Lebowski_its says on my screen right now... Rockbox e200r installer..... Already unlocked Proceed to step 2
19:59:01preglowLear: i was looking at how to support several streams in one .ogg, but the ogg format doesn't have any hints that'll make finding out how many streams a file has any easier
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20:00:00VairOK, guys, I want to thank you all for all your help. I've installed the rockbox files and english.voice. It didn't work a minute ago but the battery was very low. I'm going to plug it into the wall for a few hours and give it another try later.
20:00:11Lebowski_do I need to install the .rom with .m14?
20:00:20VairCatch you laters.
20:00:36 Quit Vair ("CGI:IRC")
20:00:37Learpreglow: You mean chained (concatenated), or something fancier?
20:00:44preglowLear: that
20:01:45Learpreglow: Well, you need to seek through the file, looking for different serial numbers. Not too difficult to do... I may even have some Rockbox-suitable code for it.
20:03:51preglowLear: for such a seldomly used feature, it'd have to not do more than max two seeks to discover if a file is chained to be acceptable
20:04:03preglowLear: and as far as i can see, that's not possible
20:04:52Learpreglow: Ah, well, that's not possible, true. But even if that was possible, do you have fixes for the codec issues related to chaining? :)
20:05:32preglowLear: what'd those be?
20:07:54Learpreglow: ogg mallocs intermixed with vorbis mallocs. When switching streams, I'm pretty sure you need to free all vorbis mallocs, but there's been some ogg mallocs too. At least if without changing vorbisfile or some more "stream hacking" in the codec...
20:08:37 Quit n1s ()
20:09:09preglowLear: removing those mallocs are exactly what i'm working on
20:09:35LearAh.
20:10:25preglowLear: so, really, to find out if an .ogg file is chained, you need to binary search around in it and try to discover a bitstream serial different from the one used at the start of the file?
20:11:18amiconnpreglow: Btw, why would an audio file clip after an mp3 encode/decode cycle?
20:11:51LearYes, detecting if it is chained at all is pretty easy, and the metadata parser already does that today. To know how many streams there are, and to get seek points for them (which Tremor needs, to support seeking), you need lots of seeks...
20:12:21preglowamiconn: because the discarding of information mp3 does pretty much means the waveform can look pretty wild after encoding, a file not clipping before encoding does not mean it won't clip after encoding
20:12:29 Quit linuxstb (Remote closed the connection)
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20:13:04preglowamiconn: basically, if you mdct some non-clipping data, then alter some of the frequency bins, then reverse transform, there's nothing that says the data won't clip
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20:13:27preglowLear: how to do detect if it's chained?
20:14:07LearCheck serialno of first and last ogg page. If different, it is chained.
20:14:19amiconnHmm. Does quantisation cause some coefficients to become larger, or what?
20:14:39amiconnAlso, does that only apply to mp3, or also to other lossy codecs? (mp2, vorbis, ...)
20:14:41linuxstbLear: But then how do you know how many tracks there are?
20:14:50preglowamiconn: it causes some to become larger, smaller, or zero
20:15:06preglowLear: how do you find the last page? just read a huge chunk and look for sync?
20:15:10Learlinuxstb: Well, then you need (a lot) more seeks.
20:15:27Learpreglow: metadata/ogg.c already does that. Search for last_serial.
20:16:24Learpreglow: That's pretty much what it does. It reads the last 64 kB (as that's how large a page can be) and looks for sync.
20:16:37preglowamiconn: it is most prominent in transform codecs, mp3, vorbis, aac, ac3, etc
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20:17:04preglowamiconn: mp2 and musepack are subband codecs and are too affected by it, at least i think, but not to such a degree, since no frequency domain methods are employed
20:17:08LloreanI'm curious
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20:17:39preglowLear: mwell, then i'd say that chained ogg support isn't a nodo, at least
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20:17:45LloreanCan't we seek to the end of the first song in a chained Ogg, and if that's not the end of the file, we know there's a second one? Then seek to the end of that, and if there's more there's a third? Isn't that just one seek per song / track?
20:17:57preglowLear: let's just see if i can manage to remove the mallocs first
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20:18:05LloreanOr do we not have the ability to seek to the end of a single song until we know how many there are?
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20:18:11preglowLlorean: how do we know where "end of first song" is?
20:18:25Lloreanpreglow: How do we seek to 1:56 into a 3:07 song anyway?
20:18:32preglowLlorean: by walking page headers
20:18:51LloreanAh, so it'd have to be walked to 3:07 of 3:07 and then see if that's not the end...
20:18:54preglowLlorean: you can calculate how large a page is, but you don't know how large a stream/song is until you've walked all of them
20:19:15LloreanAlright then, thanks
20:19:17amiconnpreglow: Aha, hmm. The only non-transforming lossy codecs are mp1/mp2 and musepack, right?
20:19:20markunpreglow: can this page walking be done fast?
20:19:28amiconnOh, and probably lossy wavpack?
20:19:30preglowmarkun: it's completely fseek() dependent
20:19:32LearIt isn't as bad as a full walk. First a rough guess, then binary search to the right position.
20:19:36preglowamiconn: lossy wavpack is a waveform coder, yes
20:20:16markunLear: will you know it if you end up in a chained file after the rough guess?
20:20:45preglowamiconn: the only subband codecs i see in rockbox are mpeg and musepack (and speex, for some modes), both of which use the same technique
20:21:27preglowac3, aac, mpeg, vorbis and wma are transform codecs
20:21:29Learmarkun: Tremor (the decoder library) needs to know the end of each stream, to avoid that problem.
20:21:36preglowthe rest are waveform coders or predictive coders
20:23:14*linuxstb wonders why chained oggs would be useful
20:23:16Lebowski_grrr.... I have i am stuck with POS rhapsody firwmare even after I have patched the bootloader
20:23:19amiconnAre there lossless transform codecs? (probably not)
20:24:03Lloreanlinuxstb: I think the idea is "get rid of the Malloc without ruling them out entirely for the future" if I'm following the train of discussion.
20:24:27preglowamiconn: none that i know if, it's not a practical approach
20:26:06preglowamiconn: most lossless codecs work by predicting how the output will look, then subtracting the original from the reconstructed to yield a residual (as small as possible), then code that along with the prediction parameters so the decoder can reconstruct perfectly
20:26:12pixelmaFebs, Llorean, others interested in the manual: in the installation instructions on targets where it is important there were/are notes about general things to take care of before attempting the install (like UMS/MSC mode etc.). This was part of "old" instructions and hence is currently below the automatic installation - I guess I should move it up? And while at it - is rbutil capable of distinguish 32MB and 64MB Ipods (because then this needs to a
20:27:15pixelma*distinguishing
20:27:30linuxstbpixelma: No, we can't distinguish them - unless we guess based on disk size.
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20:30:29pixelmaok, then this needs to appear above too (delivering the last part of the sentence too ;) )
20:31:23preglowlinuxstb: chaining is primarily used for streaming, so i guess you'll see some stream rips being chained
20:31:33preglowi'm just all for us supporting what can be supported
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20:32:56linuxstbpreglow: Wouldn't the stream ripping application save them to separate files though?
20:33:10linuxstbBut I agree we should support things that we can...
20:34:10preglowlinuxstb: depends how you rip, with an ogg stream, you should basically be able to just netcat something to disk
20:34:14preglowbut sure, i see the point
20:35:12LloreanOther than seeking to the next chained ogg, and the various UI elements associated with multitracks, why is it needed to know there's a second stream in the file in advance of getting to it?
20:35:42preglowwhat we already do, as lear explained
20:36:03preglowseek to the end of the file, find the last page header, and see if the serial is different from what it is at the start of the file
20:36:19LloreanOkay then, "why is it needed to know how many streams, and where they are"?
20:36:36preglowwe already do that, though i don't know why. probably just to tell tremor where it should start ignoring the rest
20:37:47LearTo support seeking.
20:40:33linuxstbEven basic seeking needs to know the total length (in seconds) of the file - which you don't know with chained oggs unless you identify all the independent files.
20:42:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:43:26preglowlinuxstb: are most container formats so simple as ogg?
20:45:47*preglow wonders why the audio_formats list is in firmware/ ...
20:45:47preglowreally
20:45:55preglowthis firmware/ apps/ separation is a bit silly as it is
20:46:22amiconnImho it's not silly
20:46:34preglowthen what is codec stuff doing in firmware/ ?
20:46:43preglowthe idea is good, but it's not done properly
20:46:47preglowid3 stuff in firmware?
20:46:52preglowthat's what i mean is silly
20:46:58LloreanYeah, the current choices made for splitting some of the stuff are kinda silly right now.
20:47:46preglowfirmware/ should contain stuff for making code run on a given target, that would be good, and even valuable for other projects than ourself, but right now firmware/ and apps/ just intermingle quite a bit
20:47:57preglowmedia player stuff should be in apps/
20:47:58Zagorremember we didn't have codecs when id3 was put there. decoding was very much a hardware thing. it made a little more sense then.
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20:48:21amiconnpreglow: id3 stuff is in firmware because the hwcodec playback engine is in firmware
20:48:36preglowZagor: i agree decoding was a hardware thing, id3 handling still wasn't, if you ask me
20:48:49linuxstbBut that still doesn't imply metadata reading needs to be... (what preglow said...)
20:49:08Zagorpreglow: I agree, but it was somewhat less silly back then than it is now :)
20:49:16amiconnThe hwcodec playback engine is mostly monolithic
20:49:17preglowif the hardware decoder needed id3 stuff directly, i'd say there some bad separation going on
20:49:27preglowZagor: haha, sure
20:49:47preglowbut i'm not going to complain too loudly, i'm probably not going to even try fixing it
20:49:53preglowthat needs some hwcodec skilled peo0ple
20:50:10amiconnFixing it requires switching playback engine for hwcodec
20:50:12preglowand i don't know if i'm even interested in getting a hwcodec target
20:50:24preglowamiconn: yeah, that'd be a way
20:50:30amiconnThat's something I will probably look into, but definitely not now
20:50:57preglowlinuxstb: right now we assume .ogg == vorbis, right?
20:51:21amiconnThe MoB engine still has far more quirks than the hwcodec enigne, and I want to enjoy 100% reliable rockbox on at least some targets...
20:51:23linuxstbpreglow: No, the apps/metadata/ code distinguishes between vorbis and speex.
20:51:57linuxstb(same thing with AAC and ALAC)
20:52:09amiconnThat said, the MoB engine is okay as long as one doesn't use too many special features (and I don't)
20:52:20preglowlinuxstb: ahh, i see, get_vorbis_metadata looks for speex
20:52:41preglowamiconn: mob still glitches badly
20:52:46preglowi'll give you that
20:53:08preglowbut it's way better than it was
20:55:15mud-rbis there anywhere convenient that lists the various architectural differences of all of the rockbox targets? (like word size, endianness, alignment issues, that kind of stuff)?
20:55:58preglowmud-rb: no, not really
20:56:01amiconnI don't know about such a list
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20:56:22amiconnBut there are just 3 fundamental architectures
20:56:25 Join Hammer89 [0] (n=Matthew@static-host-24-149-229-197.patmedia.net)
20:56:30amiconnSH, coldfire, and arm
20:57:16amiconnAll 3 are 32bit. SH and coldfire are big endian. Arm can be either endian, but all our targets use little endian
20:57:51mud-rbah, thanks. that's probably mostly all i need to know actually
20:58:03amiconnSH and arm require alignment, and will throw an exception on misaligned data. Coldfire does not require it, but it's recommended for speed
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20:58:30mud-rbis it just datasize alignment or whatever? i forgot the actual name for it
20:58:43amiconnYes, alignment to data size
20:58:54mud-rbcool, that's pretty easy
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21:00
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21:00:07preglowDomonoky: here?
21:00:13mud-rband if i happen to need them, are there endian conversion macros anywhere? i don't see any on a quick grep
21:01:35Lloreanletoh, betoh, etc
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21:01:55Domonokypreglow: jup
21:02:09Lloreanmud-rb: I'm not sure where they're located though
21:02:24mud-rbLlorean: ah thanks. i can find them from that, i was only looking for "ntoh" style
21:02:48preglowDomonoky: do you have any plans for integratins rbspeexenc?
21:02:54preglowDomonoky: in rbutilqt, that is
21:03:39Domonokypreglow: yes, i would like to compile rbspeexenc into rbutil, but at the moment i dont have enough time..
21:03:49preglowDomonoky: any ideas on how to do it?
21:04:00preglowDomonoky: and one question, how do i convert a qstring into something fopen() can toke?
21:04:03preglowtake...
21:04:20Lloreanmud-rb: All I remember about them was using them to fix an alignment bug in a plugin once.
21:05:15Domonokypreglow: i thought about making rbspeexenc itself a lib, and link it to rbutil..
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21:05:46mud-rbyeah, they seem to be in firmware/export/system.h. i honestly hope that i don't have to deal with them, because i hate endianness, but i think i'll probably have to
21:06:20linuxstb_You normally only have to worry if you're reading/writing binary files.
21:06:53Domonokypreglow: about the Qstring, i think it was .toAscii()
21:07:06Domonokyor .toLatin1() ?
21:07:16mud-rbyeah, i can usually tell when i need to, they just make my brain hurt when i'm trying to deal with algorithms
21:08:14preglowDomonoky: both of those just discard unicode characters...
21:08:18linuxstb_mud-rb: Don't forget the UI simulator - which can be run on 64-bit machines...
21:08:48mud-rblinuxstb_: ugh, thanks, i forgot about that one
21:08:51preglowi should just do a test myself
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21:12:29linuxstb_preglow: Couldn't you just use Qt's file I/O functions (if there are any...) ?
21:12:41DarkStylistwhy do people have to compile new builds just to get a codec working?
21:13:01linuxstb_Because codecs aren't independent to Rockbox.
21:13:15preglowlinuxstb_: i think i'll restructure rbpspeexenc into a small lib and factor out all file io into the calling app
21:13:30amiconnhmmm
21:13:36preglowlinuxstb_: i can't exactly use qt io in rbspeexenc.c....
21:13:42amiconnpreglow: The slow status bar is still there...
21:14:19linuxstb_preglow: Yes, that's what I meant, factor out the I/O.
21:15:13DarkStylisthttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5241 saw that page has patch whats patch?
21:15:15 Quit linuxstb (Nick collision from services.)
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21:15:46DarkStylistshouldnt codecs be independent in the first place?
21:15:50DarkStylistjust curious
21:16:01ZagorDarkStylist: a patch is a list of changes to the source code
21:16:31DarkStylistoh
21:18:40linuxstbDarkStylist: Codecs are normally officially added to Rockbox as soon as they are functional. MOD is a special case, as the way Rockbox is designed doesn't make MOD playback easy - so the codec doesn't work well enough to add it to the official builds yet.
21:18:41amiconnmud-rb: Ah, of course. The sim can also be run on big-enidan machines (e.g. PPC-based Macs)
21:20:06linuxstbIs the license issue with the MOD codec resolved, or are we still trying to identify the source?
21:20:35amiconnAfaik it's still unsolved
21:20:49mud-rbamiconn: oh, that kind of answers another question i forgot to ask. the sim doesn't simulate the endianness of the target it's simulating then, correct?
21:21:16mud-rbi guess that would be pretty insane, it must not
21:22:22linuxstbCorrect - the sim is just a native PC application.
21:23:41*linuxstb wonders why the mod metadata parser has his name in the (C)...
21:23:46preglowamiconn: then you need to find out why, it completely fixed my issue
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21:32:42amiconnpreglow: Unless you're talking about a different quirk than me, it's not fixed
21:32:49preglowamiconn: well, then it looks like i am
21:32:55preglowmine is fixed, i can't reproduce it
21:32:55amiconnThe status bar appears 0.5..1 second later than the browser itself
21:33:24preglowamiconn: what target?
21:33:35preglowlinuxstb: think i'll just pass FILE* handles around, i've discovered a QFile method that returns an int file handle that i can pass to fdopen
21:34:07amiconnLooks like all swcodec targets are affected
21:34:22amiconnSo far tried H10, H180, H340, Mini G2
21:34:30amiconnOndio is unaffected
21:35:07Nico_Plinuxstb: probably just header copy and paste
21:35:44Nico_Ppreglow: is there a bug report corresponding to the issues you're experiencing? if not, could you make one with a repro recipe?
21:35:57Nico_P(the MoB issues, that is)
21:36:07preglowNico_P: i'll post one when i find something i can reproduce reliably
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21:36:51Nico_Ppreglow: I really do want to fix these issues, but you seem to be almost the only one getting them (or complaining about them)
21:37:53amiconnNico_P: I know of at least 2 quirks which are 100% resp. ~80% reproducable
21:38:34amiconnOne is the playlist index advancing too early, the other is the unreliable end-of-playlist detection
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21:38:39preglowNico_P: i know you want to fix them, but the only thing i know which triggers them is skipping to new files around the end of old files
21:38:42Nico_Pamiconn: then I'm very interested but bug reports are best because 1. I check bugs rather often. 2. I don't have to dig up an IRC log to get info
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21:39:20preglowany reason a52 metadata isn't in its own file?
21:39:23preglowif not, i'll fix it now
21:39:30Nico_Pamiconn: early playlist index incrementation is more a known issue than a bug, but you surely know that. and it's not new to MoB
21:40:15amiconnAfaik that effect was reintroduced with MoB, after being fixed quite a while ago in the old engine
21:40:20Nico_Pthe fix lies in playlist.c
21:40:50Nico_PI think I remember testing a pre-MoB build (just before it), and it had that bug
21:41:22amiconnpreglow: In fact it seems to be a hdd dependent effect. Recorder also shows it (and player, although only slightly)
21:42:48markunpreglow: I probably forgot to move it. In which file is it now?
21:43:17markunpreglow: would be great is id3 parsing was in apps/metadata/ as well
21:43:32preglowmarkun: sure would, it was in metadata.c, i'm moving it to metadata/a52.c now
21:43:54preglowaaaargh, dircache glitches badly here now too
21:43:58preglowdisables itself all the time
21:44:20markunpreglow: I wanted to add iTunes gapless support for mp3, but didn't want to duplicate the code from the m4a parser
21:45:33preglowamiconn: riiiiiight, now that dircache disabled itself, i get the missing status bar more often...
21:45:46preglowamiconn: while exiting test_codec, for example, it waited for disk spinup before displaying
21:46:34amiconnI have dircache enabled on targets with >=32MB RAM
21:46:35Nico_Ppreglow: for the bug report, it's not really important for the issue to be reliably reproduceable, you can post it now-ish and add a repro recipe if you find one
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21:48:30amiconn..and slow spinup. I.e. all swcodec targets except X5 (only 16MB RAM) and Mini G2 (spinup time of <500ms)
21:48:32Nico_Pit's just hard to remember every issue that was mentioned here, and even harder to find them
21:49:05preglowamiconn: well, i always have dircache on my h120, nano doesn't much need it...
21:49:14*preglow should get that gigabeat s soon
21:49:35Nico_Ppreglow: nice :) plan on helping with the porting?
21:49:56preglowNico_P: oh yes
21:50:47Nico_Pawesome... the more the merrier (and the quicker the port will be done) :)
21:50:56Nico_PjhMikeS: any news about your S?
21:51:02preglowdunno exactly when i'll get one, but i've pretty much made up my mind now
21:51:29preglowjust need to make sure i'm ok with cash
21:51:37preglowsince i'm pretty short on that at the moment
21:51:37Nico_Pah, I thought it was actually coming to you right now
21:51:46preglowno, haven't even ordered one, heh
21:52:11Nico_Pit's really a nice little device, especially compared to the F
21:52:49preglowmain differences? apart from hardware, that is
21:53:43Nico_Psmaller, lighter, cross is no more touch sensitive (real "buttons"), more buttons, bigger display
21:54:06Nico_Pbattery life is a bit worse though
21:54:54preglowi hope we can remedy that
21:55:44Nico_PI hope so too... the fact that the disk is constantly spinning in the OF probably doesn't help though :p
21:56:38 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
21:57:12preglowahahahha
21:57:13preglowwhat the hell
21:58:14Nico_Pyeah, some crazy design choice... it does stop while playing music though
21:59:36Nico_Pthe OF is completely eye-candy focused
22:00
22:00:22amiconnConstantly spinning hdd is not exactly a new OF bug
22:00:30amiconnH1x0 also does that iirc
22:00:53markunyes, that was a terrible bug
22:00:56Nico_Poh, I didn't know that...
22:01:23Nico_Pmicrosoft would probably call that a *feature* of WinCE :p
22:02:02dionoeahowdy
22:02:04preglowany people currently have any gigabeat s they want to be rid of?
22:04:37preglowbah, how do i do the svn action i need to do when adding new files?
22:04:47preglowsetting correct file types or whatever
22:05:18linuxstbSee the UsingSVN wiki page
22:06:59Slasheripreglow: did you try checking the fs for errors?
22:06:59 Quit kubiix (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:08:03preglowSlasheri: i guess i should
22:08:40Slasherithat could help, i have never had that kind of behaviour
22:09:36preglowSlasheri: it's kind of weird it doesn't disable itself when scanning, then
22:09:42preglowSlasheri: it disables itself after some use
22:10:00Slasherihmm, indeed. did you check the logf?
22:10:00preglowSlasheri: and i don't see how file system damage can have any effect once dircache has actually completed its scan and started working
22:10:05Slasheriit should contain the reason
22:10:06preglowSlasheri: i'm compiling a logf as we speak
22:10:15Slasherigreat :)
22:10:31preglowi really should just start using logf builds permanently
22:10:46Slasheripreglow: if dircache finds an inconsistence between cache and fs, it disables itself
22:10:55Slasherisome kind of fs corruption could probably cause that
22:11:17amiconnpreglow: The delayed status bar effect doesn't seem to depend much on dircache. It does seem to depend on storage media type though. My only unaffected targets are the Ondios
22:11:49Slasheripreglow: and btw, be sure the remove that damned ENABLE_LOGF thing from logf.c/.h
22:12:15Slasheriit doesn't work without removing it or defining that enable in dircache.c
22:12:21 Quit Ping ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.1 :: www.regroup-esports.com )")
22:12:22preglowSlasheri: sure, i know
22:12:27Slasherigood
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22:13:02preglowi like it, i hate having my debug output swamped by tagcache/playback/dircache logf messages when all i want is to see my one debug message, heh
22:13:28Slasherihehe, i just hate it because then i will miss probably crucial information when a problem occurs
22:13:39Slasherii just increase the logf buffer size if that is too small
22:13:54preglowSlasheri: that doesn't make it any easier to catch my debug output on the remote, heh
22:13:58preglowit just wizzes by
22:14:24Slasheriindeed, but i will use remote only if a complete crash occurs
22:14:32Slasherinormally logfdump is the way to go
22:15:38*amiconn only tried logf once, and the returned to the old methods, because of that logf spam
22:15:51preglowyeah, it is annoying
22:16:01amiconnMaybe now that this selectivity exists, I could try again
22:16:07 Quit bertrik ("bye")
22:16:28Slasherithat "spam" gives a good idea what happens in background and if a bug is related to some other event
22:17:12Slasherii have found & fixed most of the bugs with help of logf
22:17:42preglowyeah, but it is annoying when you know what you're looking for
22:17:54scorche|wpreglow: well, i am here if you need someone to relay from refurbdepot
22:18:13preglowscorche|w: any reason i'd need someone to relay it? do they only send to the us?
22:18:27scorche|wthe latter
22:19:21preglowright
22:19:38preglowscorche|w: you know how much shipping to europe usually is?
22:19:45amiconnjhMikeS: Just got a funny crash message with the latest build on 2nd Gen: "retetch abort" "t 7F007CA0 (0)"
22:20:00amiconnThere are no typos in that message (!)
22:20:04preglowamiconn: wow...
22:20:14preglowi've never, ever seen that message garbled
22:20:20preglowalmost looks like both cores crashes at once
22:21:08amiconnThis is a r15873 build; r15871 works
22:21:17Slasherihehe, i have seen some very funny pictures too when experienced with the dual core playback :)
22:21:43scorche|wpreglow: for an S, i think somewhere around 15-18 ish...when i get home in...2 hours 40 min, i will check my receipts of past shipments
22:22:17Slasherisomething like menu structure completely garbaged and shifted on the display with kernel error messages and second core still working
22:22:35BigBambiI can recommend the Scorch Shipping Co.
22:22:42scorche|wwell, 3 hours, i guess
22:22:50preglowscorche|w: no huge rush
22:22:54BigBambi*Scorche
22:25:12preglowbah, refurbdepot haven't got 60 gigs
22:25:18preglowis changing the hd in the bastards hard?
22:25:20preglowor possible?
22:25:24scorche|wheh...so they did sell out?
22:25:48 Quit desowin ("use linux")
22:26:13BigBambiLooks like it
22:26:46amiconnSo... those 2 tiny fixes today (voice_thread.c and dsp.c) retrigger the PP5002 bug on 1st/2nd Gen
22:27:07*amiconn really wonders what that bug might be :\
22:27:46*preglow curses portalplayer
22:29:40preglowlogf's width restriction is really bloody annoying
22:30:37*scorche|w looks at his paypal history
22:31:07scorche|wpreglow: looks like with their shipping, taxes, and my shipping, count on 30 extra dollars
22:31:20preglowscorche|w: practically free, in other words
22:31:31*preglow likes the dollar
22:31:37*scorche|w frowns
22:32:20scorche|wyup...200 even would do the trick for a 30
22:32:52scorche|wunless the people at USPS raised rates...
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22:42:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:59:27*preglow has a refactorized rbspeexenc
23:00
23:00:32Bagderdan_a: hey, seen my cool little code? ;-)
23:01:09preglowlinuxstb: any reason why all the patcher stuff is located in rbutil?
23:02:05dan_aBagder: I have
23:02:20dan_a(Unless you've posted a new one since then)
23:02:37dan_aI've not been able to put my own code on the Clip yet, though
23:02:48preglowwhat chipset does the clip use?
23:02:57Bagderthere are some other values left in the header that might be important
23:03:04preglowclip?
23:03:05Bagderpreglow: AS3525
23:03:09preglowroit
23:04:50dan_aBagder: I'm assuming those are your "8 bit checksum2" and the 4 byte checksum at the end?
23:05:18Bagderyeps, and the value at index 8
23:05:34preglowjmworx: −−vbr and −−quality 10 won't necessarily use the best mode all the way through, no? just debating with myself if there's a point in adding a cbr flag for our encoder
23:10:05 Quit Frazz ("Leaving")
23:11:23preglowDomonoky: i've refactored rbspeexenc to now have a encode_file() function taking FILE* input and output handles, plus parameters for all the different settings and some error string stuff, will that be fine?
23:11:51preglowDomonoky: QFile has a method handle() that returns an integer that can be used to obtain a FILE* handle, so that part should be ok
23:12:18linuxstbpreglow: It just seemed simpler to put the patchers there.
23:13:22Domonokypreglow: sounds fine
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23:13:39dan_aBagder: Is there anything I can do to help find how the checksums are summed?
23:13:58preglowDomonoky: do you think it makes sense to make a custom dialog for rbspeexenc that lets you adjust all the encoding parameters as widgets? checkbox for narrowband, spinbuttons for complexity/quality, etc ?
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23:15:13Domonokyperglow: would be nice, but at the moment i dont know how to integrate this cleanly in rbutil :-)
23:15:14krazykitshould you make such a dialog, it would be good to have a "defaults" button to reset the user alterations
23:15:43Domonokyi would like to have custom config dialogs for all encoders/tts engines
23:15:52preglowyeah, that would be nice indeed
23:16:01preglowperhaps i could help, i'd like to learn some qt
23:16:10preglowthen again, perhaps it's not so wise to add another thing to my plate...
23:16:16Domonoky:-)
23:16:44Bagderdan_a: so far I've only stared on the headers of all the firmware files and compared them over and over again to see if I can see a pattern. For the 32bit checksum I used the two almost identical m200 firmwares to work with
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23:17:57mycaelHello, I am trying to install Rockbox on my iPod 5.5 G but the installer says it is not where it is nad the bootloader has "Unsupported Boot Laoder Method" error. And help?
23:18:00Bagderthat turned out very useful
23:18:27Domonokymycael: restart rbutil, and use the install buttons on the second tab... :-)
23:19:06mycaeli can't see replies or my question. will re-jojn
23:19:11 Part mycael
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23:19:19mycaelhello?
23:19:22DerPapstlo
23:19:22mycaelthere fixed
23:19:47mycaelcan whoever answered before re-answer
23:19:50Domonokymycael: restart rbutil, and use the install buttons on the second tab of rutil..
23:19:50DerPapst[23:21] <Domonoky> mycael: restart rbutil, and use the install buttons on the second tab... :-)
23:19:56DerPapstmeh...
23:20:01*DerPapst too slow as always
23:20:08mycaelunder extras
23:20:09mycael?
23:20:15Domonokythe complete install seems to be still buggy..
23:20:35Domonokyno, the install tab, not the buttons on te Quickstart tab..
23:20:42mycaelwhat am I installing
23:20:57Domonokybootloader, and rockbox... then extras..
23:21:09mycaelsame errors
23:21:49Domonokythen go in the configuration dialog and check if your device is correctly set...
23:22:09Domonokyif nothing helps, you can still use the manual install method :-)
23:22:39mycaelwhere is configuration dialog
23:23:28Domonokyin rbutil, at the top left, in the dropdown menu...
23:24:23mycaelthere is only four about, quit hide hide others
23:25:22Domonokymycael: you are useing a screenreader ??
23:25:31mycaelwhat is that?
23:25:47mycaelso no
23:26:03Domonokya tool for blind users, and rbutil doesnt work good with this.. :-)
23:26:22mycaelno i'm on Mac 10.5
23:26:59Domonokyah, then its perhaps somewhere else... its the "File" menu..
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23:27:31Domonokyor press the "change" button :-)
23:27:47bughunter2hey, lil question: Rockbox works actually on SanDisks i have read :)
23:28:01bughunter2on series e200 it should work too, the wiki stated. but also on e280 that is i think?
23:28:06mycaeljust set proxy install utility nthing about configyraton
23:28:22DerPapstbughunter2: works on e280 as well
23:28:27bughunter2whoa
23:28:30bughunter2thatd be sweet
23:28:30DerPapste200 is just the series ;)
23:28:30mud-rbe200 is a series of players that are almost identical. it works on all of them except the "v2" ones
23:28:33bughunter2yeah
23:28:37bughunter2hint: change it to e2xx
23:28:40bughunter2:)
23:28:43DerPapste2X0 :P
23:28:46bughunter2haha
23:28:48bughunter2true that
23:29:01bughunter2man, i had iriver for a few years, every year the battery had to be replaced
23:29:09 Quit mycael ()
23:29:15Domonokymycael: how old is your copy of rbutil ?
23:29:33bughunter2and now warranty is gone =( i'm not making the mistake again of buying such an expensive player without at least 2 or 3 years of warranty
23:29:49bughunter2besides, their support was really bad, i once got my player back from them, still broken >__>
23:30:04 Join bertrik [0] (n=Bertrik_@249-022-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
23:30:13bughunter2could you guys tell me if SanDisk E280 would be worth a shot ? :)
23:30:38mud-rbyes, it works quite well with rockbox
23:30:44bughunter2oh great
23:30:55bughunter2by the way, do i really need WMP10 for SanDisk E280 ?
23:31:03bughunter2without rockbox that is..
23:31:11DerPapstyou need nothing
23:31:16bughunter2even without rockbox?
23:31:24DerPapstjust copy your files on it and you're done
23:31:32bughunter2yes, but would that work without rockbox on it too?
23:31:36bughunter2i mean, no iTunes-like clone?
23:31:43Lloreanbughunter2: This is #Rockbox, so questions about how to use the original firmware aren't really appropriate here.
23:31:51bughunter2true, just wondering if you guys would know
23:32:23advcomp2019bughunter2, yea.. drag and drop.. you can got to #rockbox-community to talk offtopic
23:32:33bughunter2oh thank you
23:33:11 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:33:15bughunter2pretty impressive that the current build is always on the website within 5-10 minutes, is it build automatically or did you hire a slave? :)
23:33:37DerPapstamiconn: http://papsti.dyndns.org/upload/fat32_dump_5.5G.bin.zip
23:33:46 Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@STRATTON-THREE-EIGHTEEN.MIT.EDU)
23:33:49DerPapstslave
23:33:58bughunter2:D
23:34:12preglowwe have a vast network of slaves
23:34:17preglowall chained to their computers 24/7
23:34:23bughunter2hgaha
23:34:31bughunter2thanks for the help man, i'll try to see if i can do something good for the rockbox community!
23:34:46preglowthey get a jolt of 500 volts each time an update happens, with a promise of more if they're not done within seven minutes
23:34:52bughunter2=P
23:34:59preglowwell, you could join our slave netword :D
23:35:02preglownetwork too
23:35:14bughunter2well, seriously? :D
23:35:22preglowsure, if you enjoy electricity
23:35:42bughunter2well, do i need to be a low-level coder to code stuff for rockbox?
23:35:48bughunter2if you need any help with coding that is
23:35:52bughunter2what else could be done
23:35:53Bagderbughunter2: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BuildServer
23:36:06preglowwe don't _need_ any help coding, but we alway appreciate new contributors
23:36:21preglowand you don't need to be an experienced coder at all, but it all depends on what areas of rockbox you want to hack on, of course
23:36:22bughunter2okay, what else could be done? :)
23:36:29bughunter2well true that
23:36:49mud-rbworking on plugins is probably the easiest way to start i think
23:36:52preglowcoding rockbox is different than coding apps for your pc, but not any more than can be learnt in a day
23:36:58bughunter2i did low-level assembly for almost one year and did some reverse engineering, but i learned C about 1,5 years ago
23:37:03bughunter2i'm now busy with C++ too
23:37:08preglowwell, we do asm and c
23:37:20preglowmostly c, though, not many of us touch the asm
23:37:30bughunter2okay
23:38:01bughunter2what kind of plugin needs/wants help or maybe a new plugin is requested?
23:38:20Bagderbughunter2: check out the bug and feature request trackers
23:38:26Bagderthey're pretty well packed with ideas
23:38:30preglowlinuxstb: really, removing mallocs from the ogg handling shouldn't be too hard, a pity different code is used for different codecs
23:38:34preglowprimarily vorbis/speex
23:39:44 Quit nanok (Remote closed the connection)
23:39:47bughunter2thought rockbox didn't provide malloc?
23:39:56preglowbughunter2: it doesn't, but we simulate it for some codecs
23:40:03bughunter2cool
23:40:06advcomp2019bughunter2, you could even look at helping port a player that is in the new ports in the forums
23:40:17preglowbughunter2: seeing as how most of the codec code is from other projects, we add a simple malloc for codecs, but with the goal being removing them
23:40:24preglowa goal we're not far away from now, so i'm looking into it
23:40:33bughunter2sounds good
23:40:38bughunter2i might take a look at porting
23:40:54bughunter2however i'm not anymore that much into reversing so i'm not the one to crack new firmware encryptions lol
23:41:11bughunter2more sure, i want to help :)
23:41:13bughunter2but*
23:41:17Bagderchicken! ;-)
23:41:22bughunter2haha
23:41:23preglownot many of us bend that way, heh
23:41:28preglowmostly just swedes and crazy people
23:41:34bughunter2i'm from the Netherlands
23:41:43pregloware you crazy?
23:41:56preglowif you are, you can still can crack encryptions!
23:42:00bughunter2well sometimes
23:42:17bughunter2but the advantage is, i don't need alcohol for it :D
23:42:33preglowahh, alcohol, thanks for the reminder
23:42:37*preglow goes for the whisky
23:42:38 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=chatzill@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
23:42:40bughunter2:D
23:42:50bughunter2i don't even like beer >_<
23:43:02preglowi love it
23:43:11bughunter2:)
23:43:36bughunter2preglow: what actually is done to port to a new target?
23:43:47bughunter2if there is nothing like an encrypted firmware or odd hardware
23:44:01 Join Klevi [0] (n=Levi@ool-435682a7.dyn.optonline.net)
23:44:53Bagderbughunter2: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort
23:45:00bughunter2sorry
23:45:01preglowthere goes the last of my lagavulin :/
23:47:25bughunter2well, i'm not much of a driver programmer either tbh
23:47:40preglownothing says you need to do a new port
23:47:42 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:47:44bughunter2is there anything else that can be done besides writing bootloaders / new drivers
23:47:50bughunter2that's true preglow :)
23:47:52Zagorbughunter2: fixing bugs?
23:47:56bughunter2good
23:47:57mud-rbyou can always hunt for bugs :)
23:48:01bughunter2heh
23:48:04bughunter2<−−
23:48:09bughunter2*looks at name*
23:48:19bughunter2that doesn't seem like a bad idea :)
23:48:19preglowbughunter2: really, just try it out, look around the source, see if something catches your fancy
23:48:26bughunter2will do preglow
23:48:38bughunter2i'll checkout the bug reports too
23:48:48Bagderor implement new features
23:48:48Bagderor just answer questions in the forum
23:48:48Bagderor here
23:48:48DBUGEnqueued KICK Bagder
23:48:48Bagderor write manual
23:48:55Bagderor send beers to devs
23:49:03bughunter2first and latter one seems most interesting
23:49:09bughunter2latter one to keep up the morale i guess?
23:49:30mud-rbshould send caffeine instead, we'll get more features :)
23:49:32LloreanOh, right, while several people are around.
23:49:38bughunter2heh
23:49:53 Join linuxstb__ [0] (n=chatzill@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
23:49:55 Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (n=chatzill@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
23:49:57LloreanCan anyone think of a reason why adding a "Flash Disk" option under "Advanced" for disk-based builds would be a bad idea?
23:49:57Zagormeh, c200 bootloader won't start if battery is low. it just displays a battery icon and shuts down. :-(
23:50:14preglowLlorean: i don't even get what it does
23:50:20bughunter2anyway i have to go to bed
23:50:27preglowgnight
23:50:30bughunter2gn8 =)
23:50:38Bagderg8
23:50:43Lloreanpreglow: Replacing the disk with CF in, for example, an iPod Mini causes sleep issues much like the Nano used to have when it tried to spin down.
23:50:47 Part bughunter2
23:50:48bertrikI'd like to help too, I won't mind cleaning up some #ifdefs
23:51:08preglowLlorean: well, can't we detect a flash based disk instead?
23:51:13LloreanHonestly, I don't know.
23:51:30preglowthat'd be the way to go, try to check out the ata params of cf instead of hd
23:51:35LloreanThat would be a better solution than a build-time option, in my opinion.
23:51:37Zagorsurely a "flash harddisk" won't barf if you send spindown to it
23:51:40preglowa spinup time of 0, for example, would be a dead giveaway
23:51:52LloreanZagor: A compact flash card in an adapter apparently does.
23:51:56 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:52:09ZagorLlorean: ah, that's a different beast yes.
23:52:41LloreanIf it's one of those solid state 1.8" disks, I'd expect it to be able to handle anything a normal 1.8" disk can
23:52:52Zagoryeah that's what I was thinking
23:53:01LloreanBut ATA sleep needs to be disabled, apparently
23:53:07LloreanFor CF cards
23:53:39 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
23:53:54KleviWill there be a port of Rockbox for the second generation of Ipod Nanos?
23:54:03LloreanKlevi: If owners of 2nd generation Nanos do it, sure.
23:54:08Zagordo we know anyone who can try this for us? I'd bet the IDENTIFY block contains enough information to tell it's a flash
23:54:14Klevilol..
23:54:37Klevican it be that much different than the first..?
23:54:39preglowKlevi: we don't sit here planning a port, someone who wants to do it has to appear and do the work
23:54:43preglowKlevi: it's _very_ different
23:54:50LloreanZagor: This guy's converted a Gigabeat, and seems somewhat on top of things. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=13832.0
23:55:18Klevi*nods(
23:55:20Klevi**
23:55:22preglowKlevi: practically nothing inside it is identical to the first generation one, and apple has really tried hard to keep us from porting to it
23:55:36LloreanZagor: It sounds like he's experiencing other issues with it still.
23:55:51Klevii see.
23:58:03 Quit bertrik ("bye")
23:58:35KleviHave any other companes really done this as well?
23:59:00Bagderdone what?

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