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#rockbox log for 2007-12-16

00:09:01 Join Thundercloud__ [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk)
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00:14:02 Join countrymonkey [0] (n=4b05639a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-6f56dbccef6b2588)
00:15:08countrymonkeyThe manual won't build. Why? I installed unicoad, now what?
00:15:27countrymonkeyI tried my make thingy with splithtml=1 make -html
00:20:55peturcountrymonkey: surely it spits out some error that helps?
00:21:22countrymonkeyIt does the wierdest thing. It copies the manual dir into the build dir. source latex and all
00:22:19peturit does that here too
00:22:57 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:23:40countrymonkeyIs that a supposed to thing? What do I do to get a build and not the source coad?
00:24:32peturI don't have all I need to build html, but the normal pdf builds fine - does that work for you?
00:24:44countrymonkeyLet me try.
00:25:38 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:28:19countrymonkeyLaTeX error: file utf8x.def doesn't exist
00:30:22peturwell I'm no manual guru, and those I know aren't around
00:30:56 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:31:01peturdid you follow http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ManualHowto
00:31:09 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
00:31:17countrymonkeyyes
00:31:46countrymonkeyWho are the manual gies? I'll talk to them when they come round.
00:32:05peturpixelma, bluebrother, ...
00:32:26countrymonkeyAnd who else?
00:32:53peturdon't torture my bad memory
00:33:37*petur peeks in svn
00:33:48 Quit desowin ("KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/")
00:34:25peturtucoz, markun, cassandra, Nico_P
00:34:48countrymonkeyI would say speaking 2 languages is good memory. I speak 2 nonfluently, but...
00:35:20*petur speaks 4 but has a bad memory anyway
00:35:50countrymonkeyWhat others do you speak? english, duch, what else?
00:36:03peturfrench and german
00:36:30countrymonkeyfluently?
00:36:34Nico_Pcountrymonkey: looks like you need to install UTF8 support for latex
00:36:41peturI live in a small country, drive 100km and you need another language :)
00:36:56countrymonkeyHow do you do that?
00:37:13Nico_Pwhat system do you use?
00:37:28countrymonkeywindows/cygwin
00:37:42Nico_Phmm then I don't know
00:38:15peturNico_P: btw, trying to build the html manual failed with the message that it needs htlatex - what package would that be?
00:39:55 Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul)
00:39:59Nico_Ppetur: assuming you use a debian derivative, tex4ht
00:40:41peturthanks!
00:41:03peturI guess http://www.unruh.de/DniQ/latex/unicode/ won't work for cygwin?
00:41:24Nico_Pcountrymonkey: for cygwin, all you need should be the TeTeX and TeTeX-extras packages
00:41:56n1sI never managed to get html manual building working...
00:42:00countrymonkeyI just clicked on default at both package selection screens for both base and mirror downloads.
00:42:17Nico_Ppetur: I'm not sure what this is, but I installed latex-ucs to use unicode in latex
00:42:29Nico_PI haven't built the manual yet though
00:42:49Nico_Pcountrymonkey: you might need to go over that again then
00:43:49peturNico_P: hmmm html build failed here too now... but I don't care ;)
00:44:13 Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat")
00:45:05 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:45:13countrymonkeyI have an inspiration. Let me try it. It goes back to what define_byte told me before the boring xmas party I went to.
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00:46:09 Part sindred
00:48:12 Quit faemir (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:49:18*Nico_P is hunting the H10 pictureflow bug
00:49:22Nico_Ptough one
00:50:56countrymonkeyI think you are supposed to run some command or other after you installed unicoad. What command is that. It is so latex knows the files are there.
00:51:33Nico_PI don't know
00:51:41peturNico_P: small or big H10? and what's the bug?
00:52:15Nico_Ppetur: small H10, a data abort right at the end of the caching process... thankfully it also occurs in the sim
00:52:30Nico_Pit seems to be memory corruption
00:52:41krazykitcountrymonkey, http://www.unruh.de/DniQ/latex/unicode/content/INSTALL
00:53:33 Quit KG ("return(EXIT_SUCCESS);")
00:54:40peturNico_P: bah, I have database off, and I get the 'no albums' splash on top of a garbled logo
00:55:14Nico_Ppetur: yeah you need datbase on... don't know why the logo would be garbled though
00:55:43peturI know about the database part, it was the garbling I wanted to tell you ;)
00:56:29peturwas something fixed there lately, the build is some days old
00:56:40Nico_PI'm not sure
00:57:00Nico_PI don't remember anything regarding the logo
00:58:45petursame thing with current svn...
00:59:24Nico_Pstrange, it's working fine on the sim and you're the first one to report that
00:59:28peturah wait, that disk is full - it is my recording test target :)
01:00
01:00:04*petur wonders what the database will do with a full disk
01:03:27 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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01:08:25countrymonkeypdf manuals now build, but html ones still don't.
01:08:42 Quit Rob222241 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:08:56peturheh, join the club ;)
01:09:14 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p54B13ADC.dip.t-dialin.net)
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01:10:32countrymonkeywhat club?
01:11:04peturof people who can't get html manuals to build?
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01:13:20 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
01:14:27countrymonkeyHey, petur, why don't you translate for anything else besides duch? Are you too busy?
01:15:22peturbesides that, for the languages I know the translations are well maintained
01:15:57peturI'm off to bed anyway, after reading http://dotnet.org.za/codingsanity/archive/2007/12/14/review-windows-xp.aspx ;)
01:16:03countrymonkeyWell. If I could get my computer to type it, I would translate to japanese.
01:17:06countrymonkeySpeaking of which, how do I do that?
01:17:40peturtype japanese?
01:18:32countrymonkeyyes. I could translate since I know the language okay.
01:18:37krazykitcountrymonkey, if "that" is typing japanese, that's not a rockbox issue.
01:19:07countrymonkeyHow do I get your web client to connect to rockbox-community?
01:19:43peturit can't
01:19:45 Join animeloe_ [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
01:19:54peturuse a webclient from ircatwork
01:20:29countrymonkeythanks
01:21:03countrymonkeyWhat is the server for the rockbox-community channel?
01:21:25krazykitfreenode, just like #rockbox.
01:21:39 Quit Robin0800 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:21:53countrymonkeyso irc.freenode.net #rockbox-community?
01:22:05krazykityes.
01:22:57countrymonkeyport?
01:24:21petur6667 ?
01:24:31krazykitleave it blank.
01:24:32 Quit Axio ()
01:24:56petur8000 works too - which is very nice to pass firewalls ;)
01:26:45countrymonkeythanks
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01:52:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:00
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02:25:43Mouser_XNico_P: You there? Mind if I ask about ADX fixings in the MoB stuff?
02:26:11Nico_PMouser_X: yes I'm here... ask away :)
02:26:12 Quit obo ("bye")
02:26:42Mouser_XI was listening to some ADXs in the "repeat 1" mode, and the disk had to spinup, causing the beggining of the file to be overwritten. Thus, when it attempted to loop, it caused a codec failure.
02:27:02Mouser_XShouldn't the buffer leave the file alone, since you're listening to the same one repeatedly?
02:27:22Mouser_X(ADXs loop, if you don't remember them... They're still not working either.)
02:28:18Nico_Pdoes the file loop even if you don't use repeat 1?
02:28:47Nico_Prepeat 1 will cause the buffer to endlessly fill with multiple copies of the same track (not MoB's fault)
02:29:07Mouser_XIt tries to, but fails (if it's near the end of the buffer), because the beggining to file is overwritten.,
02:29:11 Quit countrymonkey ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
02:29:44Nico_PMouser_X: is the file biffer than the buffer? does it do the same without repeat1?
02:29:54Nico_Ps/biffer/bigger
02:30:33Mouser_XThere are very few ADXs that are larger than the buffer, but there are a few that are 26 MB. Most of them float around the 5-15 MB range.
02:31:09Mouser_XIf by "the same w/o repeat 1" you mean it fails, then yes, if it's near the end of the buffer.
02:31:29Nico_Pso these shouldn't be allowed to be partial?
02:31:31Mouser_XWhen the ADX attempts to loop, it goes back to the begining of the file.
02:31:41Mouser_XEssentially, yes.
02:32:11Mouser_XThough, it's not necessarily required, it makes them work much better if the entire file is available for the entire duration of playback.
02:32:22Nico_PI should look at how the codec handles the looping... there's no reason why it couldn't work
02:32:56Mouser_XI think HCS sent you some ADXs to look at, didn't he?
02:33:11Mouser_X(It helped find some problems with the buffering.)
02:33:13Nico_Pyes, I never got round to actually trying them out :/
02:33:16Mouser_XAh.
02:34:14Mouser_XADXs, because they're streamed, don't require 100% of the file to begin playing. However, to loop them, you would need the whole file in the buffer.
02:35:27Mouser_XIn other words, partially loading them first and starting playback is fine. It's overwriting parts of the file (to fill the buffer for the next tracks) that causes problems, because they attempt to loop, thus reading from the beginning of the file (which is now gone, to make room for more buffer).
02:39:47Nico_Pbut to loop you only need the end and the beginning, right?
02:42:00Mouser_XThe middle would be a good idea as well, but yes.
02:42:05 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
02:43:08Nico_Pok, time to try out one of those ADX tracks
02:44:28 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
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02:46:14Mouser_Xlostlogic worked on it a little as well, but he finds ADXs to be blight among music formats...
02:46:33Mouser_X(He finds the looping aspect to be a serious pain.)
02:48:50 Part johns
02:48:54Mouser_XNico_P: I was listening to some ADXs yesterday, and I noticed that when going through their second loop (thus the audio data has been gone over once already), the buffer will overwrite the data, even as it's being played from.
02:59:07Nico_PMouser_X: it seems ok to me, I must be missing something
02:59:24 Join animeloe_ [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
03:00
03:00:34Mouser_XDid you only listen to 1 ADX, or all 3 (he send tyou 3 didn't he?)?
03:01:04Mouser_XThe problem only happens if the ADX is near the end of the buffer, because then the buffer will overwrite the file, to fill the buffer.
03:01:07Nico_PI'm using the first one for the tests, but yeah, he sent me 3
03:01:38Nico_Pyes but when I fixed FS #8092 a while ago it should have solved that too
03:01:41Mouser_XThe 3 he sent should be large enough that they'll fill the buffer, and cause the last file to fail, due to filling the buffer again.
03:01:57Mouser_XYes, that's what I would have thought, but it doesn't seem to have done so.
03:02:06*Mouser_X will check his version of Rockbox.
03:03:33Mouser_XWhat revision was 8092 fixed in?
03:04:07Nico_Pin my test I did the following: with repeat set to one, play the first track. press next once resulting in having a copy that is only partly buffered... seek to the end, which results in dropping the beginning of the file and buffering the end. wait for the loop
03:04:11Nico_Plet me check
03:04:32Nico_Pr15816
03:05:22Mouser_XYah, just saw that. HCS sent me a build, but it seems that it doesn't have that fix in it (it's older than I thought).
03:05:34Nico_Pthe commit was made on Mon Nov 26 21:13:08 2007
03:06:03Nico_Ptry downloading the current build
03:06:20Mouser_XI have a newer version on my Sansa. I guess I didn't notice it, because the Sansa has flash, and thus I wouldn't have noticed it doing a "drive" read.
03:06:55Mouser_X(Meaning, I didn't notice that it was reading, thus filling the buffer, thus possibly overwriting the file in the buffer).
03:07:19 Join DM| [0] (n=dm@cpe-65-24-167-246.columbus.res.rr.com)
03:07:22*Mouser_X gets the newest build.
03:07:26Mouser_X:( Sorry about that.
03:07:58Nico_Pno worries :) get back to me when you've tried it
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03:19:58Nico_PMouser_X: so?
03:20:36Mouser_XBacking up my old Rockbox folder. The build I have may be older than I thought, but the reason I was using it is because it has the GBS and MOD patch.
03:20:43 Join fenugrec [0] (n=ABC@modemcable247.111-201-24.mc.videotron.ca)
03:20:52Nico_Pok
03:20:57Mouser_XI'm doing this over a USB 1.x connection, on a 450 mhz machine.
03:21:28Mouser_X:( @ my PC. I need to get a new power supply. Thus, I'm not on my computer.
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03:33:46*Nico_P is off to bed
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03:41:26 Join bobrules [0] (n=ggdgdgd@CPE00032f3a0ced-CM0013718c1238.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
03:41:48bobruleshello for pictureflow I think the scroll wheel should be reversed
03:42:06bobrulesthe direction should be opposite
03:43:44 Quit rotator ()
03:44:32bobrulesalso is there a way ro disable zooming when clicking select ?
03:51:31ptw419what version of arm-elf-gcc does rockbox use again?
03:52:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:52:46krazykitgcc version 4.0.3
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03:53:31ptw419thanks
03:53:39webguest08Hey there
03:53:46krazykitptw419, but just using rockboxdev.sh will take care of everything for you
03:54:04krazykitincluding the necessary patches.
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03:55:26dlonghi there
03:55:28 Quit DM| (Client Quit)
03:55:34ptw419its that in tools dir?
03:55:41krazykitptw419, i believe so
03:55:43dlongI've checked the FAQ and manual, but I'm not sure how patches work for themes/builds...
03:55:48ptw419thanks
03:57:40dlonganyone? :O
03:57:44Mouser_Xdlong: You haven't actually asked a question yet.
03:57:56Mouser_XIn other words, I don't know what to answer.
03:58:02dlongoh sorry
03:58:11dlongI'm trying to install themes
03:58:19dlongand it tells me I need 3rd-party builds
03:58:26dlongso I extract those to my iPod
03:58:33dlongbut how do I get these .patch files working?
03:58:35 Join scorche [50] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
03:58:47Mouser_XPlease don't use the ENTER key as a space, or a period.
03:59:00dlongmy apologies :(
03:59:14krazykitdlong, unsupported builds are, as the name suggests, unsupported. if you want to know how to use patches, read the WorkingWithPatches wiki page
03:59:34Mouser_X^ What he said.
03:59:58Mouser_X(Though, you could also use the builds that the themes tell you to use.)
04:00
04:00:20JamPSWhat about a pin-code system to a player? :)
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04:02:39ptw419ah this script is nice :)
04:03:32ptw419and here i thought i had to do this all manually by banging my head against my keyboard
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04:19:51Mouser_XNico_P: (For the logs) Well, sorry about that. I've not yet noticed any problems in ADX playback with the most recent build. Though, ADXs do seem to pause occasionally, when they loop, due to the buffer needing to be refilled (I assume that the buffer filled, overwriting the begining of the ADX. When it looped, the buffer had to do a backwords seek, thus forcing a refill of the buffer again [/assuming]).
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04:32:19joeyomy ipod video is frozen with a "ROLO...executing" message. Is there a way i can reset it or do I have to wait for the batteries to drain?
04:32:55psycho_maniachold menu+select for a few seconds
04:33:13joeyothank you
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04:53:57countrymonkeyany developments on the "i cannot build manuals in html" club?
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04:54:08iarorahey
04:54:28countrymonkeyhey
04:54:29iaroracan i play divx on rockbox?
04:54:41countrymonkeyno
04:54:43psycho_maniacno
04:54:50iaroraok
04:54:59psycho_maniaciarora: look up mpegplayer on the wiki
04:55:06countrymonkeyIf you convert them to mpeg than plugin mpegplayer can do it
04:55:34iarorais convering to mpeg faster than converting to mp4?
04:55:48iaroracause im in a hurry and need some stuff before i board the flight
04:56:26krazykitiarora, somewhat faster, i suppose, but it still takes awhile.
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05:00
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05:05:13donutman25there seems to be a problem with ViewVC
05:05:45krazykitthat's known.
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05:48:37SoulinEtherive been out of the rockbox loop for a bit, anyone know if that one issue with ipod nanos and the cpu ever had a patch committed or anything? if not, i can just make my own build..
05:49:33Mouser_XSoulinEther: It might have been. It sounds familiar.
05:49:42SoulinEthereh, I'm guessing if the bug was closed, and the reason for closing was fixed, then it was committed?
05:49:52SoulinEtherthis one
05:49:52SoulinEtherhttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7510
05:50:09Mouser_XProbably.
05:50:19SoulinEtherhow funny, that was 6 days after i decided to just go with an older build
05:50:26SoulinEtherk, thanks
05:50:56scorcheSoulinEther: "Reason for closing: Fixed"...
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05:51:29SoulinEtherlol, just checking scorche, thats all :P
05:51:44scorchewell, do you think that the page is going to lie?
05:52:11SoulinEther.. got me there. lol.
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05:52:54scorchethen again, it takes less than a minute to update, boot, see if the issue is still present
05:52:59SoulinEtherexcept
05:53:04SoulinEtherit takes more than that to recover from what it does to my ipod
05:53:10SoulinEtherto the partition
05:53:16SoulinEtherk
05:53:22SoulinEtheri dont want to really argue about this
05:53:42SoulinEtheryeah, so... gj guys, keep up the good work i guess.
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05:53:48scorchehrm?...that bug never screwed up the partition
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06:06:51saratogapixelma: (for the logs) did you report a broken WMA file a while back?
06:07:06saratogaif so could you let me know what the file name is so I can check if I've already looked into it?
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08:45:43jharuhas anyone fixed the usb driver for rockbox? windows kept asking for one... cuold i use a generic usb driver for that?
08:46:13scorchethe usb driver for rockbox is not broken, so i dont see how it can be fixed
08:46:19scorcheit is not completed
08:46:26Mouser_Xjharu: To do data transfers, you need to reboot into the OF.
08:47:17Mouser_XBut yes, what scorche said is correct.
08:47:47jharuso its still in the dev stage?
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09:09:33saurontasty experience with e200 under linux. thx
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09:15:43jharuanyone can recomend a custom rockbox build? one that really saves energy but still has decent design
09:16:06scorchewe dont really talk about custom builds here...
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09:16:07jharulookin at kugel and cpchans rigt now
09:29:40jharudoes the official build implement pictureflow? looks like my sansa could use it...
09:30:29scorcheyes...
09:32:04jharudoes it crop or autoresize it? and is it included in the current build or is it a patch?
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09:34:03LloreanCrop, and you were already told "yes" when you asked if the current build has it.
09:34:51jharui said official first current second
09:35:12LloreanThe official build IS the current build...
09:35:19LloreanWhat did you think the "official" build was?
09:36:33jharui was thinking that its a patch (the picture flow) and needs to be included if installing rockbox
09:37:08LloreanIf something is "in the official build" it's not a patch any more.
09:37:27LloreanIf it's a patch, then clearly it's *not* in the build, because you'd have to patch it to add it in...
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10:42:53logy|O_ohi there
10:43:37logy|O_oany1 here with Sansa e260 with rockbox installed?
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10:44:15Bagderwhy?
10:44:52logy|O_oI need to decide to install rockbox or not :P
10:45:16LloreanThere's really no reason not to give it a try. It's completely reversible.
10:45:54logy|O_osure?
10:46:11Bagderindeed
10:46:20logy|O_owow thx
10:46:27logy|O_odidnt know that
10:46:32Bagderjust make sure it isn't a e260 v2
10:46:44logy|O_oyea
10:46:47logy|O_othank ya
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11:32:39phr__so i want to install on my c240 but the c240 only speaks mtp, so i have no way to download rockbox from my linux computer, or even to revert to the old sandisk firmware that supported ums
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11:52:12replixhi
11:52:31replixis this player http://www.toppreise.ch/prod_109676.html supported by rockbox?
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11:56:11freqmod_nxmight be
11:56:26advcomp2019replix, yes if it is a v1 but no it is v2
11:56:42replixwhat's the difference?
11:56:50freqmod_nxv1=doesn't support audible
11:56:55freqmod_nxand works with rockbox
11:57:11replixwhat's audible? :)
11:57:13freqmod_nxv2 is completly different inside
11:57:28advcomp2019replix, v1 and v2 has different hardware
11:57:42replixok, how to tell it's a v1?
11:58:18freqmod_nxat least if the specifications mentions audible then it is not
11:58:45advcomp2019there is no way to tell till you get it
11:59:20replixand the v2s are totally unsupported?
11:59:26replixforever?
11:59:37freqmod_nxthey are working on v2
12:00
12:00:04freqmod_nxif it thakes as long as v1 took then it will probably be supported next fall.
12:00:36freqmod_nxbut they won't make any estimates (that estimate is purly statistical)
12:00:44replixwhat would be a good choice for an mp3-player?
12:00:58replixi need one with rockbox
12:01:09replixfor the lulz i need
12:01:31*freqmod_nx thinks sansa e2xx v1 works well
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12:04:43freqmod_nxhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BuyersGuide
12:04:47freqmod_nxis a good place to start
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12:07:32replixThe Sansa c200 series seems to have a new "v2" model available.
12:07:38replixthe e200 do not?
12:08:40freqmod_nxAFAIK e200 has that too
12:09:49freqmod_nxthe v2's e200 should have a v2 on the back of the actual unit, and a firmware version that starts with 3., but that is not possible to see before you have the product
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12:22:36replixi could send it back without opening it
12:22:47replixwhen there is written audible on the case
12:30:32replixthe availability is bad
12:30:42replix>30days
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12:35:40phr__replix, they all suck. there's only one non-ancient player whose hardware was designed with half an ounce of brains, but it doesn't run rockbox :((
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12:36:19replixcowon?
12:36:45replixcowon iAudio D2?
12:36:53phr__but the e200 and c200 have some attractive points, and there's some chance of an m200 port it looks like
12:37:03phr__replix, the player that doesn't suck? frontier lab nex 3
12:37:06LloreanI'd say the Zune's got pretty decent hardware, if it were ever hacked.
12:37:13phr__zune sucks :)
12:37:41replixopenmoko? ;)
12:37:48phr__that's a telephone iirc
12:37:52phr__anyway it sucks too
12:37:58LloreanOn what basis? It's got an incredible processor, and an FM tuner.
12:38:21phr__proprietary batteries
12:38:34LloreanSo what?
12:38:51Llorean95% of players have proprietary batteries because nobody makes a standard, high capacity batter in a form factor suitable for DAPs
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12:39:35LloreanMost DAPs that use a AAA or AA are usually nearly 1/3 again the size they could be with a custom battery.
12:39:46phr__95% of players run proprietary software but the 5% of us who run rockbox think we're doing the right thing
12:40:07phr__llorean, so? the m200 is small enough for most purposes
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12:40:24phr__the m200 is smaller than the 200 but maybe a teensy bit larger than the c200
12:40:29phr__smaller than e200
12:40:38LloreanYes, it's also a good deal less functional than the c200
12:40:49phr__it's an audio player. if i want to watch video i'll buy a tv set.
12:41:39LloreanSo what you're saying is that your limited requirements define "smart hardware design", and the things you're willing to overlook should be overlooked by everyone?
12:41:56LloreanBecause that's what I'm hearing with your "only one player in current production has intelligent hardware design" statement, and your arguments here.
12:42:28phr__what can i say, you're entitled to think whatever you want
12:43:29LloreanYeah, and you're entitled to too, but don't make sweeping statements as if they were facts.
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12:44:06LloreanNot everyone wants to be forced to pay continually for new AAAs or deal with the memory effect in rechargeable NiCDs
12:44:42LloreanA user replaceable LiIon battery that allows the manufacturer to also fit in an expansion slot AND make the player smaller sounds plenty good design to me.
12:45:11desowinthere was some rumour about betteries that could last for years ;-)
12:45:16phr__memory effect is a myth, self-discharge is solved by newer nimh cells and doesn't affect people who use their player much, and li ion doesn't make the player smaller
12:45:23phr__it just gives more control over the hsape
12:45:24phr__shape
12:45:28Lloreanphr__: Memory effect is not a myth
12:45:32LloreanIt's pretty darn easy to test.
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12:46:36LloreanAnd it does make the player smaller, because less volume has to be wasted. I hate to tell you, but the round nature of AAA batteries means there's a good deal of volume wasted to fit them in.
12:46:36desowinhttp://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news-betavoltaic-10.1.html - just wait for those adjusted for portable players ;-)
12:47:39phr__i just measured the c240 battery, 4.4 x 24.2 x 56 mm = 5958 mm**3. its claimed energy capacity is 530 mah 3.7v which is 1.96 WH.
12:47:50phr__so, 3000 mm**3 per WH
12:48:29Lloreanphr__: I can see you're on your way to a nicely unfair comparison
12:48:34phr__what's unfair?
12:48:54LloreanDo you know that's the maximum capacity of a li-ion of that size, or is it the capacity Sandisk chose for price?
12:49:27phr__it's about normal for that size, it's comparable to what you find in small cell phones
12:50:10phr__anyway sandisk sells replacement li ion packs for something like 20 bucks, vs about 2 bucks for a nimh aaa cell, so they are in no position to whinge about cost cutting :)
12:50:33phr__anyway they are beating aaa nimh somewhat for energy density
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12:51:21phr__but mainly, how many users really care if a c200 is a few mm thicker? they obviously sell a lot of e200's which are bigger
12:51:31phr__and sansa views which are bigger than the e200
12:51:43LloreanAnyway, my whole point is "don't make sweeping generalizations about hardware design based on your own preconceptions." What you need isn't what everyone needs, so if you're going to say all hardware but one sucks, say "I've found that all hardware doesn't meed my needs except this one" instead.
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12:52:59phr__well, what can i say, a heck of a lot of users are happy running windows and proprietary firmware, but i like to think that rockbox users who obviously have much more sense about wanting nonproprietary firmware ought to have the same attitude about hardaware. if you want to think something different, that's your prerogative.
12:53:10LloreanIt's pretty clear, as well, that you're basing it on factors entirely unrelated to Rockbox anyway
12:53:44phr__that is true, if there was a 1gb player that weighed 3 pounds and emitted horrible smells, i'd say it sucked for reasons unrelated to rockbox, even if it ran on aa cells
12:53:56LloreanYes, but this is #Rockbox
12:54:02LloreanWhich means ONLY rockbox related stuff is on topic
12:54:07Galoisthere is a valid point hiding in all this nonsense −− if proprietary hardware wins, then rockbox has no future
12:54:15phr__yeah but if someone asked about a player that weighed 3 pounds and smelled bad, i'd tell them it sucked
12:54:17LloreanI got into the conversation because I thought the hardware judgements were relative to Rockbox suitability
12:54:18phr__and i think most of them would
12:54:28Galoiswhat if every manufacturer started doing what apple is doing?
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12:54:52phr__anyway it's not just the battery, it's also the usb cable
12:54:56LloreanGalois: Then we'd be forced to bypass it, instead of saying "Well we don't care, plenty of other fish in the seas."
12:55:08phr__the m200 uses a standard mini-b connector instead of that awful proprietary thing
12:55:21Galoismaybe, but nothing so far suggests that we can bypass it
12:55:23phr__also, the m200 supports UMS out of the box
12:55:29Lloreanphr__: Meanwhile that dock port gives me a proper line out, line in for higher quality recording, and serial interface.
12:55:41LloreanAnd the c200 supports UMS just fine.
12:55:55LloreanGalois: If they can run code, we can too. It's all a question of "how hard" not "if"
12:55:56phr__llorean they removed UMS probably for some DRM reason
12:56:02LloreanNot on the c200v1s
12:56:12LloreanAnd reports indicate, not on the v2s either
12:56:14phr__yes really, i have three c240 v1's that have no UMS
12:56:18LloreanYes, they do
12:56:21LloreanI have the latest firmware.
12:56:31LloreanIt's still there. You perhaps just don't know how to access it in windows.
12:56:37phr__i don't use windows
12:56:42phr__i don't like proprietary software
12:57:20LloreanWell, I assure you, UMS is still there. They hid it away a little bit, and the device tries to determine if the host supports MTP, and if so, tries to connect like that, as far as I can tell
12:57:28GaloisI wish I shared your optimism. But unlike you I don't see any inherent reason why tamperproof hardware isn't possible.
12:57:28phr__there is something in the rockbox wiki saying i have to revert the current firmware to an older version before i can use ums to install rockbox
12:57:36LloreanYou can force the decision by, when already in the OF, turning on hold, holding down the |<< button, and inserting the USB cable
12:57:43phr__if that is wrong, then great,
12:57:49phr__hmm ok let me try that]
12:57:50phr__sec
12:58:07LloreanThe wiki is edited by all kinds of people. Sadly many of them do like you, and state opinions as fact.
12:58:17LloreanGalois: If they can run code on it, that means there's a way to sign that code to be run, right?
12:58:28Galoisyes, and that signing might be done with public key crypto
12:58:36LloreanGalois: The ONLY sort of tamperproof hardware would be Read-Only firmware, permanently non-upgradeable.
12:58:39Galoisand public key crypto is very very hard to break head-on
12:58:43LloreanYes.
12:58:50LloreanBut that still means it's a "how hard" rather than an "if"
12:59:05LloreanI didn't say it would be feasible any time soon, merely that if they can do it, it's POSSIBLE
12:59:10GaloisI'll go out on a limb and say that if the NSA can't break PKC head-on then we can't either
12:59:16Galoisyou have to find some side-angle, like with the xbox linux hacking
12:59:26Galoisand those side angles are accidents, buffer overflows, etc
12:59:31LloreanThat doesn't make it IMPOSSIBLE though
12:59:40LloreanYou're interpreting what I'm saying as something other than what it means.
12:59:47phr__what's the OF?
12:59:52Lloreanphr__: Original Firmware.
12:59:53GaloisI think it's practically impossible to break RSA 2048 head on
13:00
13:00:05LloreanGalois: Please, read what I'm saying.
13:00:17LloreanPractically Impossible just means "It can't be done in a practical manner" not "It can't be done"
13:00:29LloreanI also never said anything about cracking it head on.
13:00:30phr__do i power up the c240 first?
13:00:47GaloisI draw no distinction between "it can't be done practically" and "it can't be done"
13:00:50Lloreanphr__: I do believe I said that you need to be in the original firmware. Since you're in neither when it's off, that follows.'
13:00:54GaloisI mean, what are you proposing, to do it impractically?
13:00:55LloreanGalois: Then that's YOUR problem.
13:00:58desowinthe RSA itself is hard to break...but protocols and such are rather 'breakable'
13:01:05LloreanI'm proposing that it's _POSSIBLE_
13:01:12LloreanThat's ALL I'm proposing.
13:01:17GaloisI think your possibility is true but irrelevant
13:01:18phr__well i remember there's some unbrick sequence that involves holding down a button while powering up the unit
13:01:33phr__the nsa is recommending elliptic curve public key systems and requiring them for govt use
13:01:35Galoisdesowin: yes, that's the side angle attack I described. I see no reason why such an attack would always be possible.
13:01:37LloreanGalois: Well, ALL I ever said was it's possible. If you thought that was true, there was no sense arguing
13:01:54GaloisI think it's technically true but not a helpful truth for rockbox
13:01:58LloreanGalois: As it stands, new attacks are invented frequently, and new hardware. One day encryption that seems "strong" now will be nothing, and all kinds of new encryptions will be in use.
13:02:12phr__ok here goes
13:02:28Galoisllorean, that's again getting into the realm of predicting the future. I do not share your optimism. This is a matter of opinion, not fact.
13:02:35LloreanGalois: Yes.
13:02:49LloreanGalois: But you stated it as "fact" that it might become impossible
13:02:57Galoiswhen?
13:03:13Galoisokay, you're right. I stated as fact that it might become impossible. But might is a very weak word.
13:03:17desowinGalois: I think it always would be possible...for exmaple look at modchips used in "non-ever-breakable" consoles like wii, xbox360 and others
13:03:28LloreanGalois: I said that it will always be possible as long as firmware is upgradeable, and you disagreed. It's a binary situation, meaning that your position MUST be that it wouldn't bep ossible
13:03:57Galoisargh, it's not worth arguing
13:04:00LloreanGalois: It's physically impossible for it to become impossible so long as firmware is upgradeable. There's no unbreakable encryption, just impractical to break encryption.
13:04:18Galoisquantum cryptography is unbreakable unless quantum mechanics is wrong.
13:04:24LloreanMy point is: Say exactly what you mean, don't generalize by saying something is "impossible" when you mean "not practical", as they're different things
13:04:40LloreanNo, quantum cryptography cannot be broken or tampered with without leaving evidence.
13:04:47LloreanIf it were unbreakable, the receiving end couldn't decrypt it.
13:06:12Lloreanphr__: Any luck?
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13:07:35phrre
13:07:58phri tried that thing of plugging in the usb cable with the >> button pressed and it crashed my box again i.e. probably running MTP
13:08:08LloreanI said |<<
13:08:09phrit also got the player itself in a wedged state where i couldn't turn it off except by popping the battery
13:08:11LloreanAnd hold must be on
13:08:17phraha, whoops
13:08:33LloreanAlso, hold the power long enough and they'll always shut off
13:08:39Lloreanno need to pop a battery, it's a hardware feature.
13:08:56phrok here goes again. i held power for 10-15 sec but maybe that wasn't long enough
13:09:29LloreanAs far as I know, the time is "15 seconds" but some people have said it's taken them as much as 30, oddly enough
13:09:54phrwoo hoo! that worked, thanks!
13:10:00phri wonder which firmware this c240 is running
13:10:18LloreanI assume there's something about your computer that makes it want to try MTP.
13:10:28LloreanI know on my Ubuntu box, it *usually* mounts fine without the trick
13:10:34phrwtf? i think this is a v2 c240
13:10:34LloreanThough occasionally mounts read only.
13:10:43Lloreanv3.something firmware?
13:10:46phryeah
13:10:51LloreanYeah, it's a v2 then.
13:11:03phrthe other one that i tried is a v1
13:11:10phrthis says:
13:11:15phrVersion Info: Product Rev.: PP5022BF-06.10-S301-06.10-S301.01.05PRT
13:11:16phrBase Code: 06.10-S301-06.10-S301.01.05PRT
13:11:16phrODM Ver.: S301-06.10-S301.01.05PRT
13:11:16DBUGEnqueued KICK phr
13:11:16phrOEM Ver.: S301.01.05PRT
13:11:16phrBuild Type: RT
13:11:17***Alert Mode level 1
13:11:17DBUGEnqueued KICK phr__
13:11:17phrBuild Date: 2007.04.16
13:11:19phrBuild Number: (Build 13.26)
13:11:21GaloisI still don't think it's always guaranteed to be possible for the rockbox project to run code just because someone else can run code. Rockbox as a project is resource-constrained. RSA-2048 or some other sufficiently strong cryptosystem is (conjecturally) impossible to break without a certain level of computational resources.
13:11:26LloreanPlease don't paste into the channel
13:11:31phrsorry
13:12:05LloreanGalois: It's not guaranteed to be possible for Rockbox to do it. But "Rockbox won't have the resources to do it" doesn't mean "It's impossible" it just means "It's possible, but outside our means"
13:12:15phrmaybe 01.05 is the version #
13:12:16Galoisit's infeasible
13:12:25LloreanThat's a different word than "impossible" though
13:12:30Galoisyou're right
13:12:45Galoishowever, the larger point still holds: infeasibility will kill the future of rockbox, just as surely as impossibility will
13:13:26phraha, 01.01.05P just like the other one
13:13:31phrso the wiki is wrong
13:13:51LloreanGalois: I think though that it's unlikely to ever get that far.
13:14:01phrit already has with the ipod, it looks like
13:14:14GaloisLlorean, I hope very strongly that you're right about that
13:14:26Lloreanphr: I don't think anyone suitably determined has investigated the iPod.
13:14:49LloreanThere's really only two projects with an interest in running unsigned code on it, and Rockbox hasn't bothered, and I don't think iPL has either.
13:14:52phranyway it's near miraculous that rockbox works as well as it does
13:15:01phron the players that it runs on
13:15:33SlasheriGalois: we can build our own hardware if that should ever happen
13:16:10phrthere's someone on the rockbox forum supposedly building hardware
13:16:17LloreanOr just concentrate on interesting older hardware that we haven't gotten to yet, because it wasn't interesting enough at the time. Or concentrate on Rockbox as an app. Or so on.
13:16:19phrso it will be great if that actually gets somewhere and builds something decent
13:17:08phrbut i didn't get an impression of it being all that serious
13:17:10 Quit Axio (Remote closed the connection)
13:17:15Galoismaybe in europe you can build your own hardware, but in the US they have lovely laws that for example require things like the broadcast flag
13:17:16phrand neuros audio seems to have given up on audio
13:17:40Galoisso you can't even (legally) build hardware unless it enforces the prevailing DRM
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13:18:51Galoiswell, anyway, there's no point in going on. I have no solution to propose.
13:19:12 Quit phr__ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
13:20:02victoryemulatorcan anyone tell me if the 6G ipod classic is ever going to be supported coz ppl at iPod linux do not really seem enthusiastic about it. more over wikipedia says that the encrypted firmware of 6G may be a problem!
13:20:48phrhah, the battery of this c240 is at 2 bars already! it's been running about 5 minutes since i charged it
13:20:52Galoisvictoryemulator: we can't predict the future. However so far no one is working on it.
13:21:18***Alert Mode OFF
13:21:23phr6g = classic, i.e. the new 160gb unit? yeah i also heard they used encryption
13:21:29GaloisMy personal opinion (not fact) is that it will never be supported.
13:21:59victoryemulatorassuming that someone starts to port it, i wud be glad to test;)
13:22:19phrdoes anyone really want a 160gb audio player or are they mostly using those things for video?
13:22:19LloreanWell, nobody's really interested in working on it.
13:22:34LloreanSo it's unlikely to get supported unless something changes the fundamental situation, such as somebody new showing up to work on it
13:22:47victoryemulatorLOL! the touche effect...
13:22:49Lloreanphr: I know people who find 160gb of *mp3s* not enough
13:22:56phryeah true :)
13:23:03LloreanI could use 160gb, but only if I kept my audio as lossless
13:23:05victoryemulatorI do not find it enough
13:23:15victoryemulatoreven with mp3s
13:23:35LloreanI mean, assuming iTunes price/mb, 160gb is something like $40,000 worth of music
13:23:59phri think i have about 10gb of mp3's most of which i don't listen to much, so i feel slightly cramped with my 4gb m200, but figure with something like 32gb i'd be set for quite a while
13:24:00victoryemulatorOK assuming that someone does, would it be including Xvid support?
13:24:05Galoisvictoryemulator: I sense that the general feeling is that Apple clearly doesn't want to play by the rules of the open source community, so our community is not interested in Apple anymore.
13:24:10Lloreanvictoryemulator: Rockbox doesn't have XVid support
13:24:21GaloisFor this reason, nobody is interested in working on the new ipods.
13:24:41victoryemulatorOh :(
13:24:56LloreanGalois: It's not a "by the rules" issue
13:25:06LloreanWe've had firmware signing and other things to bypass before.
13:25:15LloreanIt's just not interesting enough to be worth the time and effort for most people.
13:25:19LloreanThey're just iPods.
13:25:36victoryemulatorwell ipod users are also humans
13:25:49victoryemulatorthey desrve the openness
13:25:54phrthe ipod classic is certainly about the smallest 160gb unit
13:26:02Lloreanvictoryemulator: Then they're more than welcome to work on it.
13:26:03Domonokyits more, just a new port (the new ipods have completly new hardware), so its the same as for every other unsuported player
13:26:25victoryemulatorHmm it would have to start from scratch then
13:26:28LloreanThe previous iPods really only got ports because of how much work was already done on iPod Linux, I think.
13:26:43victoryemulatorkernel and all?
13:27:05LloreanHuh?
13:27:20Domonokyvictoryemulator: only hardware near code would have to be rewritten. the problem is encryption and no docs..
13:27:57victoryemulatorwell encryption yes that is going to be tricky
13:28:23CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 1 second at the last flood
13:28:23*Domonoky thinks the "no docs aviable" is a bigger problem..
13:28:43LloreanYeah
13:28:47Domonokywe already run on hardware, where the original firmware was encrypted..
13:28:55LloreanEncryption is something you either bypass or you don't.
13:29:05LloreanUndocumented hardware apparently drags at you for years. :)
13:29:21Domonokyjup
13:29:36victoryemulatorbah only if ppl heard to stallman:(
13:29:36Domonokyso we need a spy at apple *hehe*
13:29:56victoryemulatoror at its units in china
13:30:19LloreanDomonoky: Send a letter to Steve Jobs, maybe he doesn't know about us. :-P
13:30:56Domonoky*hehe* i dont think Jobs would care..
13:31:10victoryemulatorAll he is gonna do is drink another gulp from his bottle nad continue with his Key note prep:(
13:32:07DomonokyLlorean: how was your talk with real ? at least the now us :-)
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13:33:14LloreanDomonoky: In summary "We can't do anything about AAC because of the patents issue, so we can't GPL that code, some sort of exception was made in terms of the OLPC (not sure what it is though), oh, and it'd be nifty if you could play Rhapsody, you should talk with some of our guys"
13:33:41phrreal audio? i thought that itself was some secret format
13:33:47Domonokyah, damn patents...
13:33:54LloreanReal Audio has several formats
13:34:04LloreanFor example, Cook, which is secret, is one type, while AAC which is less so, is aniother
13:34:08victoryemulatorrhapsody aint real audio AFAIK
13:34:09LloreanBut they're both .ra files.
13:34:10Domonokybut Rhapsody in rockbox... is the code for this gpl ?
13:34:18victoryemulatorIts WMA woth DRM
13:34:22phrther'es an open container format but i thought the interesting codecs were secret
13:34:35LloreanDomonoky: It was something he brought up. He said that implementing Rhapsody is just an API. No clue though.
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13:34:54phrrhapsody = drm, i thought
13:35:04LloreanIt is DRM
13:35:07phryeah
13:35:09LloreanBut DRM isn't by simple definition bad.
13:35:26phrwell drm and free software don't mix
13:35:31LloreanIt allows some interesting new types of service, such as what can only be described as "music rental." The "All you can listen to for 19.99/month"
13:36:02victoryemulatorI am from India and we do not really use the online music stores so as of now DRM is not much of an issue here but the fact is that we are pretty against DRM coz it just does not with concept of freedom
13:36:03LloreanYeah, DRM and free software are in essence impossible to mix. If you can play a file, you can decode it to disk.
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13:36:31jharuis the battery bug fixed in the portalplayer devices (not showing right charge)
13:36:34Galoisand indeed it's quite easy to save rhapsody streams to disk in linux
13:36:37Lloreanjharu: Not really, no.
13:36:55phrand i thought the wma formats were secret
13:37:07phror some of them
13:37:08Lloreanphr: We support WMA audio in Rockbox.
13:37:10victoryemulator<nods>
13:37:11phroh cool
13:37:20LloreanThey're secret, more or less, but some have open source codecs.
13:37:23phrhehe
13:37:23LloreanI think the newest WMA doesn't yet
13:37:41victoryemulatorand some have DRM LOL what an irony
13:38:11jharuat what average lifespan before charging? just using sound
13:38:29Lloreanjharu: Depends a very lot on usage habits, format, and other things.
13:38:36LloreanAlso, theres' a wide range of PortalPlayer devices.
13:38:37desowinbut didn't the iTunes store stopped using DRM?
13:38:43Lloreandesowin: Yes and No.
13:38:51LloreanSome songs are offered as DRM-free "iTunes Plus"
13:39:00LloreanWith a "you might pirate this" tax of an additional 30 cents or so.
13:39:04LloreanThey are higher quality though.
13:39:18jharusansa... just playing it. no fiddling with other things.
13:39:18LloreanOr at least, higher bitrate. No guarantee they didn't just transcode up ;)
13:39:22victoryemulatori thot jobs made them cheapaer
13:39:28LloreanOh, maybe he did.
13:39:35Lloreanjharu: e200 or c200?
13:39:43jharue200
13:40:04phrthere was some issue with the c200 rockbox port using more power than the sandisk firmware iirc
13:40:18Lloreanjharu: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SandiskE200BatteryMeasurements
13:40:28Lloreanphr: This is true of all PP502x targets.
13:41:02phrsigh, oh well
13:41:36Lloreanphr: I tested a full movie and still had 77% remaining, so it's not awful or anything.
13:41:43jharusorry for that i read forums but its quite a few months old topic and i dont know if any update is made...
13:41:50phryeah i figure i can live with it and it'll eventually improve
13:43:12victoryemulatorOk thanks uys
13:43:16victoryemulatorguys
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13:45:44jharuok... does that mean there is no battery display on rockbox unless you patch it?
13:45:57LloreanRockbox displays the battery level as a percentage.
13:46:09LloreanAnd usually that's pretty decent. You just can't trust the "approximate time remaining" display
13:46:33phrpercentage figured from voltage measurement?
13:46:43LloreanYes
13:46:54LloreanUsually calibrated with a discharge curve
13:47:37phrright
13:47:44jharuand even though fully charged time usage still will be less than of
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13:56:17phrthe ipod mini is an interesting player b/c it uses a CF card inside
13:56:28phrand there's 32gb cards now
13:57:25markunbut it's portalplayer based :(
13:58:09phrright, so are these sansas
13:58:31phris this a matter of some power control feature that hasn't been figured out?
13:59:06markunI believe it's mainly the ata poweroff, so for flash it proabably doesn't matter so much
13:59:21phrhmm
13:59:33pixelmathe mini originally has a minidrive but a CF mod is possible, just for accuracy;)
13:59:42replixis it hard to get v1 sansas in switzerland?
13:59:54phrata poweroff is a standardized command i thought
13:59:59pixelmaeh... microdrive
14:00
14:00:04phrreplix it's hard to get v1 sansas anywhere
14:00:17phrpixelma yeah a hd in a cf form factor, you can swap it out for a cf flash card
14:00:36replixand where to get a good player for rockbox?
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14:01:02phrwe were just having that conversation, i thought. and obviously such a question is a request for opinions ;)
14:01:48krazykitcheck the BuyersGuide in the wiki
14:01:49replixyes, there are no good players?
14:02:05krazykita "good player" depends on what features you wan
14:02:05krazykitt
14:02:43phrif you don't mind the issues i talked about, the c240 is pretty nice. it's tiny and it has an expansion slot and woot sold them cheap
14:03:38phri think i wouldn't touch a hard drive player unless i absolutely had to have 60+ gb
14:06:39phris there any place to get replacement batteries for the cowon x5l?
14:06:51phroh 30gb max
14:07:03krazykitebay is probably the only viable place
14:07:46phrhmm that's better than nothing i guess. i sort of looked around once and it seemed like they were near unobtainable
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14:18:59jharuis true that official build has no themes incuded at first install? just that black and something stuff?
14:20:45desowinsvn.rockbox.org seems to have something wrong "ImportError: libkeyutils.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
14:20:57Genre9mp3jharu: there are some themes included in the builds
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14:22:13jharuin the original not the custom ones?
14:22:43Genre9mp3jharu: yes, official builds that is
14:22:58desowinoffical builds doesn't have eyecandy themes if that's what you ask for
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14:23:50jharurephrase... what theme does the official build have? is there a link where i can see it?
14:24:21LloreanIt doesn't start with any theme. Just basic text
14:24:31LloreanBut it comes with a couple themes usually, depending on target
14:24:39LloreanAnd it's quite easy to add other themes, or create your own
14:25:07LloreanAt this point, why not just try Rockbox? You've been asking questions for a day or two now, and the process is reversible. You could learn everything you want to know by just doing it. :)
14:26:01Genre9mp3jharu: indeed.. you miss all the fun!
14:26:42replixdoes rockbox support antialiasing on text?
14:26:44jharuim still waiting for my custom built aluminum hardcase. its easy to crack the sansa lcd and im afraid of crushing a SR425 investment.
14:27:32Lloreanreplix: No.
14:27:45faemirreplix: no but it doesn't look bad without it
14:27:52replixok
14:27:54Lloreanjharu: I don't see what risk of cracking the LCD has to do with simply installing Rockbox?
14:29:10phrsr? and what model of sansa is that breakable and expensive? the c200 screen seems pretty well protected
14:29:48jharuhard to explain... anybody having a hyperactive niece rampaging in the house and tearing anything not glued on the groung?
14:29:58Lloreanjharu: Again though
14:30:10LloreanIf you have the c200 in the house already, what additional risk does installing Rockbox add?
14:30:28jharuits an e not a c...
14:30:31phrare you talking about a c200? the screen is behind a plastic window, you can't realy bang it
14:30:36phrhmm
14:30:44Lloreanjharu: Either player though.
14:30:44phrdunno about the e, maybe that bigger screen is more exposed
14:30:52phrthe c240 really seems pretty rugged
14:32:31jharuah well, riskin is the way to go... ill try later with the official and the much "hyped" kugel build...
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14:32:59phrby the way one of my buddies is trying to give away a 64 channel logic analyzer−−would that be of any use to rockbox?
14:38:08jharuphr: sr= saudi riyal. i work in the middle east. i know a little programming but on windows. and one thing there is no available replacement here if ever i brick the sansa so i have to be certain of what i put in my unit. its my second coming from an astone one...
14:38:37jharuand dont recommend amazon...
14:38:39phrppl here have said the sansas are very hard to brick
14:38:59jharubut is buggy with of
14:39:46jharuthats why have to be certain of the "alt fw" for it
14:40:04phrthe installation is reversable
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14:40:56jharureversible dont mean recoverable though. ;]
14:41:18phreh? i thought it's sort of a dual boot installation i haven't done it yet though
14:41:31phri'm getting sleepy and prob won't do it tonite, but tomorrow maybe
14:42:17jharubut i admit its better lookin than the of. could still be better though within few months i hope :D
14:42:59phri think if i were going to casemod this thing i'd try to wire it up with different battery and a full sized sd card instead of micro sd
14:43:35jharumore like motherboard overhaul to me
14:44:03jharusince that is a bigger card (2.5x)
14:44:07phrnah just a little external connector rewiring
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14:45:38jharucant imagine it sorry... mine is custom built aluminum casing provided by my uncle. he is an engeneer and is wicked with this stuff
14:46:18jharustill in design phase though so it will fit comfy with my unit
14:49:35phrlooks like the c240 is heat staked, if i take it apart it will probably not go back together
14:50:24jharuwy would you do that?
14:50:40phrto do that rewiring i described
14:50:45Lloreanphr: I've taken my c200 apart to resolder the headphone connector
14:50:51LloreanAs far as I know, there's nothing irreversible.
14:50:59phroh that's good to know
14:51:09phryou just popped it off those heat stakes/
14:51:11phr?
14:51:13LloreanI got a refurbished one, and the jack was loose.
14:51:16LloreanWhat heat stakes?
14:51:26phrit looks like there are some under the battery
14:51:40LloreanOh, those don't attach to anything important
14:51:44phryeah, mine are also refurb from that woot a couple weeks ago
14:51:50phroh cool
14:51:54LloreanYou shouldn't need to do anything about them.
14:51:57jharuhe (phr) is trying to mod it not repair it...
14:52:15Lloreanthe PCB comes completely free without dealing with them.
14:52:57LloreanI think they just keep that little aluminum shield on the plastic
14:53:08phrnp
14:55:09Nico_PMouser_X: any news on ADX?
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14:59:39phrdo you think if i were to power it from 1 aa cell and a dc-dc converter, that ripple in the input power would find its way to the audio output?
15:00
15:00:04phri guess the m200 sounds ok as far as that goes
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15:47:08stripwaxWould anyone have any preferences on a default image for the color lcd bitmap sliding puzzle plugin? Since the original was a small fish puzzle, how about we use a Creative Commons/public domain picture of fish also?
15:47:50LloreanAs long as it's distinct enough that there's no significant confusion when it's chopped up into bits as to which one is which.
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15:53:33stripwaxI was thinking just one fish
15:54:11stripwaxbut, y'know, I really just meant, thematically is a fish pic a sensible default at all.
15:54:23stripwaxNot that I have anything against fish
15:58:45LloreanI dunno. A fish would work I suppose. Unless someone has a better idea
16:00
16:00:15 Join jurrie_ [0] (n=jurrie@adsl-068-209-041-021.sip.asm.bellsouth.net)
16:00:50stripwaxok. I'm just updating this http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7218?histring=sliding_puzzle - the default puzzle is just a bunch of jumbled rockbox logos
16:03:12 Join MethoS--- [0] (n=clemens@pD955F4FD.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:09:15 Quit jurrie__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:12:11stripwaxUpdated patch (not changed default yet - so no fish) http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7218
16:20:26 Quit midkay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:21:48 Quit MethoS-- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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16:37:05 Join Merthsoft [0] (n=Shaun@140.141.22.103)
16:38:03MerthsoftSo, after updating last night, AVG seems to be finding "BackDoor.RBot" in all the .map files in the plugin folder, whats up with that?
16:39:30 Join Busa [0] (i=busicnb9@ppp200-76.vdial.verat.net)
16:39:33Merthsoftoh, also the codec files
16:40:05 Part Busa
16:41:58LloreanConsidering .map files are text documents, viewable in notepad, I think AVG has some issues
16:42:50 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
16:43:38kugelmy anti virus prog used to detect my own built simulator exe
16:43:45stripwaxMerthsoft - the codec files are not executable on windows so I'd be surprised if they could contain a windows trojan. Did AVG find any other virii on your machines?
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16:51:09Nico_Pstripwax: is there anything left preventing your sliding puzzle patch from being committed?
16:57:00 Join bobrules [0] (n=ggdgdgd@CPE00032f3a0ced-CM0013718c1238.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
16:57:28bobrulesfor coverflow, is it possible to reverse the scrollwheel direction? it doesn't match rockbox
16:57:50kugelwhat player?
16:58:35bobrulessansa e200
16:58:50bobruleswhen you scroll clockwise it should go right
16:58:53kugelyea
16:59:00Lloreanbobrules: Do the covers move left, or move right, then?
16:59:08*Llorean hasn't tried coverflow.
16:59:11kugelbut, appearently, the e200 is the only target having the wrong direction
16:59:12bobrulesmove left
16:59:19LloreanIf they move left, then you're *going* right.
16:59:21kugelI asked jott about this
16:59:34stripwaxNico_P - nothing I know of- I'm just doing a few rebuilds + checking. I got a crash on target but not in sim just now which surprised me..
17:00
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17:00:30bobrulesthe coverflow direction is reversed from the volume direction
17:00:51Lloreanbobrules: Volume is Up/Down, Coverflow is Left/Right... I'm not sure what you mean.
17:00:54stripwaxSo I'm going to see if that's real or not first.
17:01:07PaulPositionNico_P : Thanks :) (re: "It was a classic case of out of bounds access after resizing, more visible on the H10 because it has a small screen size and we use the screen size as buffer size.")
17:01:09stripwaxIf it's not real (if it does indeed work still) then sounds like it can be committed
17:01:11Lloreanbobrules: When scrolling Clockwise, do the images come on the right side of the screen, and leave the left side?
17:01:13kugelhe means that scrolling clockwise goes backwards in coverflow
17:01:19bobrulesno opposite
17:01:28LloreanOkay, then the images MOVE right.
17:01:38LloreanI asked and you said they moved left.
17:02:00bobruleslet me get it out first
17:02:01kugelbobrules: are you sure? My e200 behaves like I said
17:02:03bobrulesI'm using memory
17:02:12bobrulesmine is e250
17:02:24Lloreankugel: When scrolling Clockwise, do the images come on the right side of the screen, and leave the left side?
17:02:34bobrulesOkay
17:02:45Nico_PPaulPosition: it took me some time to track it down
17:02:45bobruleswhen I scroll clockwise the picture moves left
17:02:55LloreanIt enters the right side, and leaves the left side?
17:03:17bobrulesno oppsoite
17:03:23LloreanThen the pictures are moving right...
17:03:24kugelLlorean: No
17:03:27bobrulespicture comes from left moves to middle
17:03:33LloreanWhen you say "The pictures move..." you should say what direction the pictures move...
17:03:41bobrulesokay how about this
17:03:45kugelLlorean: When I scroll clockwise, the images comes from the left
17:03:50Lloreankugel: Okay
17:03:51bobrulesI'm at the most left picture
17:04:05bobruleswhen I move clockwise nothing happenes
17:04:13LloreanThe direction you move in the list is the *opposite* direction of that which the pictures move.
17:04:16kugelyea, like I said
17:04:42kugelI allready talked about that issue with jott
17:04:59bobrulesmaybe it's a preference issue
17:05:05kugelhe said, he'd see what he could do without affecting other targets
17:05:05bobrulescause I usually start scrolling at the top
17:05:30kugelbobrules: nah, it's a bug imo
17:05:47Lloreanbobrules: I'm not saying anything about what's right or wrong. I'm just saying, if you say "The pictures move in a direction" you should actually mean that they're MOVING in that direction.
17:05:48jottmaybe it's better not to use PLA after all and use individual mappings for each target
17:05:49stripwaxI think that direction makes sense to me, for what it's worth
17:06:11Lloreanstripwax: Clockwise should move you "forward" in the list... which is Right. Right now it moves you Backward / Left on the Sansa e200 apparently
17:06:27kugelexactly
17:06:47Lloreanjott: I haven't looked at the plugin code, but can't you just have an #IFDEF for the sansa e200, and swap a positive/negative?
17:06:48jottor it is a "bug" in the pla defintions?!
17:07:21bobrulesif I turn my player up side down it makes perfect snese
17:07:22jottLlorean: sure that would work. but then we are close to the old individual (non PLA) mappings again..
17:07:43Lloreanjott: Then again, as far as I know, the wheel directions should be identical to the iPods...
17:08:21bobrulesbut it's reversed of Rockbox
17:08:57Lloreanjott: Maybe look at keymap-e200 and see if something stands out?
17:09:09 Join pixelma [0] (n=Marianne@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
17:09:10LloreanIn comparison to one of the ipod ones.
17:09:23jottLlorean: yes.. worth a look
17:09:41bobrulesthe direction in the PictureFlow main menu works correctly
17:09:50bobrulesbut in the track list it's reversed
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17:12:04bobrulesbtw Why do I get An Exception Has Occurred
17:12:04bobrulesPython Traceback
17:12:04bobrulesAn Exception Has Occurred
17:12:04DBUGEnqueued KICK bobrules
17:12:04bobrulesPython Traceback
17:12:12bobruleson the SVN thingy
17:12:32LloreanBecause it's broken right now
17:13:28kugelthe PLA actions are not the same for e200 and ipods
17:13:56jotte200 uses "SCROLL_UP" and ipods have a "SCROLL_FWD"
17:14:01kugelPLA_UP is BUTTON_SCROLL_UP for e200, and BUTTON_SCROLL_FWD for ipods
17:14:06jottyes
17:14:19bobrulesis it easily changable?
17:14:29kugelwhy doesn't e200 use FWD too? would be easier to handle
17:17:25kugelI just looked at keymap_e200.c
17:17:42kugelvolume increase in the wps is BUTTON_SCROLL_DOWN
17:18:12kugelwhich means, that DOWN is actually clockwise scrolling
17:18:25 Part Merthsoft ("Leaving")
17:18:43bobrulescool
17:19:33MethoS---how can I compile rbutil from svn? I fetched ./rbutil and ./tools . I entered the butil-directory and did 'qmake' and after that 'make' but after some time of compiling, it failes with this message: RCC: Error: Cannot find file 'builtin/sapi_voice.vbs'
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17:20:39Lloreanjott: And Scroll FWD is actually "Down"
17:20:42kugelI guess it would be the best to fuse the keymaps of the e200 and ipods, at least when scroll wheel is concerned
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17:21:10jottkugel: yes totally agree..
17:21:18kugelI wonder why it is not FWD for e200 :o
17:21:47Lloreankugel: or why it's not UP/Down for the iPod
17:21:54LloreanSince Rockbox is primarily list based, so it makes more sense
17:22:50kugelIMO, up/down is not suitable for a wheel
17:22:58LloreanNeither is fwd/backwd
17:23:06kugelno?
17:23:19LloreanThey're as unacceptable as up/down at least
17:23:26kugelbut clockwise and counter-clockwise would be
17:23:31LloreanWhy?
17:23:54kugelbecause I see on the first look which scroll direction is meant
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17:24:06LloreanSo, because *you* think it should be that way?
17:24:22jottwell clockwise and counter-clockwise are quite universal i would propose
17:24:31LloreanClockwise and Counter are much better than either
17:24:50LloreanFWD/Back are meaningless in terms of rotation, same with Up/Down
17:24:56bobrulescan sansa handle coverflow while playingmusic in the future?
17:25:00kugelLlorean: I'm just stating my opinion
17:25:11jottbobrules: we hope so.. in general it should work
17:25:23PaulPositionHaving used 'dials' all my life, I would think up/down isn't anymore 'weird' than left-right... Think volume knob vs radi tuner knob.
17:25:26Lloreanjott: Planning on having it just do a lot of disk reading?
17:25:48LloreanPaulPosition: That was my point, FWD/BCK are about equally absurd to UP/DWN.
17:25:48jottLlorean: we try to reduce the audio buffer while using pf...
17:25:52MethoS---how can rbutil be compiles from svn?
17:26:00MethoS---how can rbutil be compiled from svn?
17:26:15 Quit Bjoern-Erik (No route to host)
17:26:28Lloreanjott: Aah, interesting.
17:26:41kugelMethoS−−-: run configure, and choose installer build
17:27:19PaulPositionLlorean - true enough.
17:27:56Soapregardless of the fact we could debate "Is clockwise right or left" all day - unlike a theoretical disk floating in space the wheel on a MP3 player has a clearly defined "up". It is from this "up" which left and right are measured.
17:28:32LloreanSoap: Well then you also know which up "up" is.
17:29:04LloreanBut it's internal key bindings anyawy
17:29:05DefineBytei say go for turnwise and leftwards
17:29:12LloreanI think CLOCK and COUNTER are more explicit anyway
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17:29:29Soapboth ways are down when initiated from the top position
17:29:35bobrulestry scrolling from the top, then try scrollign from the bottom, the meaning changes
17:29:54LloreanSoap: And Left is different when initiated from the Top vs the Buttom
17:29:59pixelmayes, especially since the e200 scrollwheel definitions are still named BUTTON_SCROLL_UP/DOWN ... ;)
17:30:01LloreanAnd both are "Right" from the left side, etc.
17:30:02jottSoap: i guess when you are in some RTL written country you might think othwerise ...(not sure about that though)
17:30:11SoapRTL?
17:30:12jottanyway CLOCK is better than both
17:30:14jottright to left
17:30:16kugelCLOCK and COUNTER allways has the same meaning
17:30:22LloreanIt really depends on whether you define "Left" "Top" "Right" or "Bottom" as the point of reference on the wheel
17:30:31MethoS---kugel: there is no configure script in ./rbutilqt
17:30:43kugeltools/configure
17:30:50MethoS---ah, thx
17:31:06LloreanCLOCK and COUNTER are absolute, and also means that if you want "Clock" to go down in lists, but up in volume, and right in a game, it all makes sense.
17:31:14SoapI agree that clock and counter are always proper - but I'd argue that right/left (and the implicit assumption most people reference from the top) is not a stretch.
17:31:31Soap"Rightie Tightie / Lefty Loosie" for example.
17:31:41LloreanSoap: I reference from the left, just because most dials with limited points start at 0 on the left
17:31:46jottSoap: that's my point you might refer up/down from right, not from left
17:32:04jottanyway.. i think we all agree on CLOCK/CC
17:32:05Soapjott: that's why I don't even bring up/down into it.
17:32:19Soaps/don't/didn't/
17:32:20DefineByteCCW CW, for sure
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17:33:03Soapwhich way is CW in pictureflow? album covers moving from the right of the screen to the left?
17:33:04MethoS---kugel: I don't want to compile rockbox, I want rbutil, this seems to be a configure script for rockbox
17:33:17kugelpress I for installer
17:33:18LloreanSoap: Moving "Forward" in the list, so the images move from right to left.
17:33:24MethoS---ok
17:33:38LloreanSoap: Except on Sansas, where it's reversed currently, which is what this discussion was around fixing. :)
17:34:46pixelmaah yes, plugin button actions...
17:34:50jottso who is making patches?! :P
17:35:20kugelI could give it a try
17:35:56jottoh and there is H10 which has definitely a up/down scrolling direction :)
17:36:10jottprobably thats where the sansa defintion derives from
17:36:31PaulPositionjott - True but right now, H10 scrollpad doesn't work. Not as a scrollpad anyway. ;)
17:37:06Nico_Pjott: seen kugel's FS #8335 ?
17:37:19jottyes.. not yet looked at it in detail
17:37:19pixelmajott: yes, IIRC
17:37:37kugelNico_P: you like it? I do :)
17:37:55Nico_Pkugel: looks ok to me, but I haven't tested it
17:37:55jottkugel: at least the latest patch introduced transparent text :)
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17:40:15 Join jharu [0] (n=jayharu@212.118.123.20)
17:41:31MethoS---some time ago, i only needed the rbutilqt directory to compile thertbutil. now i need also need ./tools and ./firmware and so on.. why? are they really needed?
17:42:00kugeldo you have rbutil now?
17:42:53jharuerrrr... few questions more... while browsing the customwps i found one that i like but it says it was tested in the kugel branch. will it also work for the official one provided i dload the nesessary patches?
17:43:13krazykitjharu, provided you use the required patches, yes
17:43:30kugeljharu: which wps/theme?
17:43:32MethoS---no! it fails, because it " Cannot find file 'builtin/sapi_voice.vbs' "
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17:44:03kugelMethoS−−-: Don't know then, I never compiled rbutil
17:44:05jharuthe vclix one. wow kugel himself!!!
17:44:14kugelheh
17:44:47kugelvclix definetly needs a custom build
17:45:01kugellike mine ;)
17:46:14jharuand also kratojet. wow m a big fan of you since i saw the abi link!!!
17:46:15bobrulesI need more album cover themes that support current build
17:46:45kugeljharu: thank you :)
17:47:12kugelbobrules: every theme that requires album art patch only will run on the current build
17:47:21kugelbobrules: the wps code didn't chane with the commit
17:47:36jharuerrr is it provided in your full download or do i still need the patches for vclix and the kratojet?
17:47:48bobrulesoh I see
17:48:08kugeljharu: download the full build, and the update version if there is one
17:48:18jharualso is the installation the same with the official one?
17:48:30kugelthe full build provides several themes, including a special compilation of vclix
17:48:36jharuwill it need the sansa patcher too?
17:48:42kugelno
17:48:58kugelif you have rockbox running, you just need to copy my build over your old one
17:49:46bobrulesOn this page, http://www.rockbox-themes.org/index.php?res=176x220x16, do you think SaagarsBigArtwill work with current build?
17:50:17jharunot yet. your build will be the first to touch my sansa e260. errrr... can you give me the stability rating of your build?
17:51:08krazykitjharu, if his build has problems, it's trivial to remove it and use an official build
17:52:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:53:26MethoS---somehow, it seems, that sapi_voice.vbs, which is located at ./tools is espected to be in ./rbutil/rbuitqt/builtin/ . if i create the builtin-folder and put the file there, it just compiles fine
17:57:44jharuok... so i just extract it in msc mode in the 16(?) mb partition... without the sansapatcher even if official build is not installed. is it correct?
17:58:15DomonokyMethoS−−-: thats correct, there is a copy command in the .pro file, maybe it doesnt wokr for you ?
17:59:17MethoS---yeah, i just remeber i saw an error like this: sh: copy: command not found
17:59:53Domonoky:-)
18:00
18:01:21pixelmajharu: no
18:01:34MethoS---but its strange anyway, why doesn't it just use cp?
18:01:41krazykitjharu, no, read the manual on how to install manually if you'll be using a custom build
18:01:59DomonokyMethoS−−-: and you need the other dirs for rbutil now, because we builtin rbspeex
18:02:27DomonokyMethoS−−-: because cp didnt work for me on windows.. ?
18:02:50MethoS---yeah, but only tools and apps/ , right?
18:02:52Domonokyfeel free to change the non windows copy line
18:03:11 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
18:03:13Domonokyjup tools for sapi script and rbspeex, and rbspeex needs the app dir..
18:03:47jharuerrr i can only locate the one for the official not for the custom ones...
18:05:56MethoS---Domonoky: I would like to change it, but i have no idea, how to use subversion to commit the changes
18:06:04krazykitjharu, i know. you just use the custom rockbox.zip instead of the official one. it's the same process
18:06:30DomonokyMethoS−−-: make patch for the patch tracker, and i will commit..
18:07:34jharuok thanks ill install it tonight
18:08:06MethoS---Domonoky: would be an option, but I would like to know how to be able to do it myself :D
18:08:09DomonokyMethoS−−-: and feel free to poke on rbutil.. it needs more hands.. :-)
18:08:52MethoS---i already have an account to edit the rockbox-webpages, can I use this acount to access the svn, too?
18:08:58DomonokyMethoS−−-: to commit yourself you need commit rights, you only get them if you prove your self ( posting good patches)
18:09:12Domonokyno svn commit rights are different...
18:09:12MethoS---hmm, k
18:09:40Domonokyif you have commit rights, the commiting it self is very easy.. just "svn commit" :-)
18:09:58MethoS---:D
18:09:59MethoS---right
18:10:17 Quit fasmaie (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:11:09MethoS---btw: for the future: where can I put my login-data, that svn can use it?
18:11:55Domonokywhich login-data ?
18:12:29krazykitMethoS−−-, there's no login for checking out SVN, only for commits
18:12:35MethoS---to be able to commit
18:12:44 Quit hannesd ("Client suicide")
18:12:50MethoS---krazykit: clear
18:13:11Domonokyno need to save them somewhere, svn will ask you if you commit..
18:13:19MethoS---ah, k
18:14:13Domonokyso till you get svn access, use "svn diff > test.patch" for your modifikations, and put the patch on the tracker.. :-)
18:15:35MethoS---oki
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18:16:41spr0k3tquestion about album art... is there are resize feature built in or do I need to make the images of a specific size?
18:17:18spr0k3talso, where do I need to put the album art?
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18:20:02MethoS---is there also a command-line tool like rbutil?
18:20:39PaulPositionspr0k - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AlbumArt
18:20:45Domonokythere are command line tools for the important install tasks of rbutil, but no all-in-one commandline tool
18:21:02PaulPositionSpr0k - err no... wait.
18:21:22Domonokywe thought of giving rbutil also command line ability.. no one coded it till now.. :-)
18:21:49PaulPositionspr0k - nvm, it's there under 'where to put the pictures'...
18:21:54krazykitMethoS−−-, the manual installers like ipodpatcher or sansapatcher. an rbutil-cli WOULD be nice though
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18:25:21MethoS---I just thought about writing a KDE-frontend for rbutil, but since it isn't splitted into core and QT-frontend...
18:26:02DomonokyMethoS−−-: true, the split isnt good...
18:27:33MethoS---the split would be good imo
18:28:07Domonokyfeel free to improve it... :-)
18:29:32MethoS---Domonoky: I do an "svn co", then change the code , and then do "svn diff > test.patch" , right?
18:29:48 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
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18:29:52Domonokyyes, should work..
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18:32:17spr0k3tis there a branch of the main build which has a jpg decoder built in?
18:32:36MethoS---Domonoky: worked
18:35:01n1sspr0k3t: we don't do branches and afaik noone has made an integrated jpeg decoder (i guess you mean for album art)
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18:39:35adulauhi guys. I have a strange issue with my sansa e280. When the rockbox bootloader is trying to load the original image, it fails just after the calculation of the CRC.
18:40:00adulau(the screen is going from white to black)
18:40:43adulauI tried to update the original firmware without success.
18:40:53 Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
18:41:45advcomp2019adulau, are you try an e200 or e200r firmware
18:41:56adulauthe e200 firmware.
18:43:50 Quit Siku (Nick collision from services.)
18:43:50adulauthe very strange part : rockbox is booting if the USB is *not* connected.
18:43:56 Join Siku [0] (i=Siku@e81-197-68-206.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
18:43:58 Quit animeloe ("This computer has gone to sleep")
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18:44:44advcomp2019adulau, that is alright
18:47:25adulauyes but when plug in back the USB when rockbox is running, the screen shows the USB cable but the USB device is not shown on the bus.
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18:48:45advcomp2019adulau, bus?
18:49:34adulauthe USB bus ;-)
18:49:49Nico_PDomonoky: does FS #8336 look correct to you?
18:50:02webguest87how helpful were telechips soc datasheets?
18:50:40advcomp2019adulau, if you mean the computer, rockbox does not have usb support yet
18:50:45 Quit shuji ()
18:50:47alienbiker99i was testing out the picture flow on an e200 and i noticed the controls seem to be opposite
18:52:18MethoS---Domonoky: how can I apply a *.patch file to my local fetched svn?
18:52:19webguest87i have found many TCxx datasheets on emule...
18:52:30 Quit midkay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:52:46adulau advcomp2019, I'm surprised because I copied my files using USB when rockbox was running ;-)
18:53:12Nico_PMethoS−−-: patch -p0 < thepatch
18:53:17MethoS---k
18:53:22Nico_PMethoS−−-: see the UsingSVN wiki page
18:53:32MethoS---nect time ;)
18:53:35MethoS---next time
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18:54:42PaulPositionNico_P : is the zoom settings of pictureviewer a percent of the original bitmap size, or the exact pixel dimension you want pf to show?
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18:55:53Nico_PPaulPosition: I think it's a percentage
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18:56:40jottanother PLA issue/question, this time c200: the "Power" button on the c200 should be bound to the PLA_MENU in "generic_actions" (or in l/r/fire) not to Quit.
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18:56:45advcomp2019adulau, that is odd
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18:57:10DefineByteAnyone willing to commit two tiny patches to tidy up the manual a bit (8313, 8323)?
18:57:33jotthttp://www.sandisk.com/Assets/Products/Sansa%20c200_straight.jpg looking at this the "MENU" binding would make sense as the button even has an additional "menu" label
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19:04:53advcomp2019adulau, what build are you using because the last rockbox build still does not have full usb support yet
19:08:23adulauadvcomp2019, r14817-070922 it was working well for the past few weeks including usb
19:08:58DomonokyNico_P: looks good, commit it..
19:09:50advcomp2019adulau, that is an old build and it has usb support.. that is odd
19:09:54Nico_PDomonoky: ok, I will after I test it
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19:11:03countrymonkeyI need to svn up to a build of 10102007. What do I need to type into cygwin?
19:11:43DomonokyNico_P: you could also commit FS #8337 :-)
19:12:06adulauadvcomp2019, the other odd part is when using the recovery mode and trying to copy the original firmware. The rockbox is not willing to boot the original mi4.
19:12:20Nico_Pyeah I huess
19:12:21adulaus/rockbox/rockbox firmware/
19:12:22Nico_Pguess
19:12:43stripwax_adulau - are you SURE that when you copied the files over that rockbox was running at the same time (you weren't running the original firmware at that moment by any chance)
19:14:27countrymonkeyI need to svn up to a build of 10102007. What do I need to type into cygwin?
19:14:31stripwax_Nico_P - do you have any advice for tracking down a Data Abort in sliding_puzzle on my ipod target? Happens when I switch from default puzzle to albumart puzzle, although that works in sim ok.
19:14:56adulauadvcomp2019, I was thinking the same in September... that why I rebooted to be sure ;-)
19:15:03Nico_Pstripwax_: first thing to do is lookup the abort address in the maps
19:18:02countrymonkeyWhat is the svn up syntax for going back to a date?
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19:19:46adulaucountrymonkey : −−revision {2007-12-15}
19:20:07countrymonkeythanks
19:20:53SonicChaoI'm thinking of buying an MP3 Player or something like it. What's the cheapest one (It doesn't matter to me how old it is; as long as it plays MP3s) supported by RockBox?
19:22:07LloreanProbably the c200 if you can find v1 models of them still.
19:22:24SonicChaoLlorean: Where there's an eBay, there's a way. ;D
19:23:32alienbiker99on the e200 in pictureflow, to scroll the tracks, you have to move the wheel left, it would be more intuitive to move to the right.
19:24:01Lloreanalienbiker99: Known issue
19:24:07stripwax_Nico_P - hm, the abort I got most recently was "prefetch abort at AAB2AAB2" which doesn't look like a real address :(
19:24:12alienbiker99ok
19:24:31Nico_Pstripwax_: indeed. maybe it's a #defined one...
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19:25:30stripwax_Nico_P - the one before was "illegal instruction at E0000004" :( and the time before that it just hung without aborting. Can you see anything obvious (or even not so obvious) in my patch?
19:25:54Nico_PI can't look right now but I'll try to do so shortly
19:26:32stripwax_Many thanks. I'm going to quickly try without the simple_resize_bitmap call and see if the problem goes away - wondering if I'm just doing something wrong
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19:37:27DefineByteanyone here know anything about the Alpin CD Changer plugin?
19:37:36DefineBytealpine/
19:38:10DefineByteor maybe even just electrical gubbins x)
19:40:37kugelNico_P: can you commit FS #8335? jott is fine with it
19:40:42DefineByteI ask because there's a bit in the manual about it that I'm not sure on.
19:41:11kugelHowever c200 should avoid either album name at the top or 100x100 AA sizes
19:42:16DefineByteNevermind, google knows all. :)
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20:05:23Nico_Pkugel: there is a glitch with fps display on, album title at the bottom of the screen and a long album: the track titles overlap the album title
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20:16:53kugelNico_P: I didn't take long lists into account, since the original version doesn't do it, and I don't have long lists to test
20:17:11Nico_Pthe original did it ok
20:20:23kugelwhat does the original with album title at the bottom and long lists?
20:21:54Nico_PI'm not sure what it does exactly, but there is no overlap
20:25:55kugelare you sure that your test list is long enough?
20:26:25Nico_Pyes
20:26:55stripwax_Nico_P - hm, sprinkling rb->splash liberally through my code as an aid to debugging, the plugin now aborts almost as soon as it is launched. Could this symptom show if my plugin is too big? I've got two largeish LCD buffers
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20:28:28Nico_Pstripwax_: no idea but IIRC the plugin has 512 KB. I don't know what happens if it is too big
20:31:13stripwax_Thanks. It's 118KB, I'll try making all my buffers static and see how big it gets.
20:31:40LloreanIf it's too big, I believe it simply won't ocmpile.
20:32:09stripwax_Llorean - the compiler won't know how much stack the plugins needs (or will it?)
20:33:13LloreanI just meant if the plugin is too big, not if it uses too much stack.
20:33:20LloreanI'm not sure what will happen in that case.
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20:33:51stripwax_ok. so I'll try moving my runtime stuff to be statically allocated (and see if it still compiles)
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20:35:17Nico_PI guess if it uses too much stack you just get a "PANIC stkov"
20:35:27stripwax_Oh well :-)
20:35:31LloreanUsually yes.
20:35:47LloreanBut I believe a stkov can cause a problem *before* the panic, and cause other symptoms too. I may be wrong.
20:36:00LloreanAt least I seem to recall something like that happening in the past
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20:45:19kugelNico_P: ís it possible, that the list simply fades out before it can overlap with the album title in the original version?
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20:45:37stripwax_I have one major function, to which I added a rb->splash right at the start, and that splash doesn't appear. So my guess is I'm crashing out during the function entry which suggests to me stack problems. Will see what I can find, it's rather strange
20:45:43stripwax_Llorean/Nico_P - thanks, as always!
20:45:58Nico_Pkugel: no, it's fine even when the bottom items are solid white
20:46:52kugelI'm trying to fix it atm
20:47:10Nico_Pok
20:47:33Nico_PI'll try to look at it too as soon as I finish what I'm doing
20:49:25kugelDoes the fps overlap with the first item in the list in the original item?
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20:52:30Lmaonadehey there
20:52:38Lmaonadedoes anyone know anything about LogoSwapper?
20:53:04LloreanThe logoswapper is software not part of the Rockbox project.
20:53:19LloreanIt's something someone on a forum made, so if you have questions, you should ask them.
20:53:20Nico_Pkugel: yes, it does... I had never noticed before :p
20:53:47kugelthis is why I moved the list down, even if album titles are at the bottom
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20:54:13Nico_PI'm not sure it's worth caring about the FPS display
20:54:39LloreanThe FPS display should probably be treated as a "debug" thing. IE, don't move things around for it, in general
20:54:51Nico_Pexactly
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20:55:28the_big_manI was wondering if anyone else using a Gigabeat F has had the screen fade to white while using pictureflow
20:56:14Nico_Pthe_big_man: you're the first to report that AFAIK
20:56:45JdGordonthe_big_man: did you maybe put a new .rock in with an old rockbox.gb?
20:57:00JdGordonor vice verca
20:57:14the_big_manI've just been downloading the current build
20:57:19JdGordonhmm
20:57:45the_big_manit doesn't do it right away, I'm usually in the plugin for a couple minutes
20:58:10the_big_manbefore it fades to white I get some artifacts on the right hand side of the screen
20:59:02the_big_manjust thought I'd let you guys know, cause it's a damn cool plugin
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21:01:30kugelNico_P: Ok, fixed
21:01:46kugelno, wait
21:02:38stripwax_Llorean/Nico_P - strange - making my buffer static seems to have (also) fixed the aborts.
21:02:57stripwax_Ok well I guess I'll just remove my debugging code and update that patch one more time :)
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21:03:24mrkikoHi all!
21:04:09Nico_PI guess too much stack usage actually makes a lot of sense... there probably was seom stack corruption
21:06:46stripwax_I guess. Probably wasn't wise of me to create a framebuffer on stack in the first place
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21:47:56|NSA|http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=90d8c915e8b613e00e9ec456b8f47103&topic=13198.0 seems to imply that the mpeg player has seeking, but i thought it didn't. am i confused?
21:51:49Nico_Pit doesn"r
21:51:52Nico_Pdoesn't
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22:21:38crzyboysterwhat happened to svn?
22:22:29crzyboystergo to http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/ and it says "python error"
22:22:35peturold news
22:22:44 Quit PaulPosition ()
22:22:49peturan upgrade went wrong
22:22:55crzyboysterso it's all lost?
22:22:59peturnah
22:23:08crzyboysterwhen will it be back up?
22:23:23peturwhen Zagor comes along and fixes it ;)
22:24:10crzyboysteron a side note Nico_P: you've done an awesome job with pictureflow (the new update) any more updates planned?
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22:24:44Nico_Pcrzyboyster: the credit goes to jott. I'm only the one who commits the patches ;)
22:24:56crzyboysteroh, i see :D
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22:25:14PerdignusHello - dumb question, but if my iPod didn't have any music on it before installing Rockbox, how do I load the music on the Nano now?
22:25:31crzyboysterthe amazing part is that we're just a step away from making it play music!
22:25:58crzyboysterPerdignus: go ahead and initialize your database (click on database on menu)
22:26:04crzyboysterthen reboot
22:26:22Perdignuscrzyboyster: will do, thanks!
22:26:22crzyboysterPerdignus: sorry! didn't read properly!
22:26:53crzyboysteryou can continue to use itunes if you wish or just drag and drop music file
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22:27:12PerdignusI hate iTunes, do I have to use it? It's not even installed on my PC
22:28:07crzyboysterjust make a folder on in the root of you ipod and make a folder called "Music" in there
22:28:41crzyboysterthen just drag and drop your music files in! on a side note: the original apple firmware will not be able to pick up those music files
22:28:58crzyboysterI, personally, still use itunes (more simple)
22:29:24Perdignusafter I copy the music there, can I initialize the db so it knows where the MP3 files are and learns their ID3 info?
22:29:54crzyboysteryes
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22:30:08PerdignusCool, I'm gonna like this
22:30:32crzyboysteranother thing to do is to (maybe) update your database once more after intializing and rebooting
22:30:49Perdignusok, I'll do that
22:31:00crzyboysterthis is because i have noticed that it doesn't like to pick up all of your songs the first time around
22:31:16Perdignusone last question (for now eh?), can Rockbox play video files?
22:31:18crzyboysterand also, install some of my rockbox themes
22:31:26crzyboysteryes, it can
22:31:32PerdignusI installed them all :)
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22:32:18crzyboysterthat makes me feel good (and also, did you get the cabbie 2.0 port, it's quite nice)
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22:32:40crzyboysteralso, for the videos, read http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer
22:33:12Perdignussweet, thnaks
22:33:14crzyboysterspecifically http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer#Using_WinFF_Windows_Linux if you're on windows
22:34:12crzyboysteralso check out http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsIpodNano#Cabbie_2_0_for_nano :P
22:34:34crzyboystergood luck!
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22:35:09PerdignusThanks a lot. So far so good, this is much better than iPodLinux already
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22:36:02CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22:36:02*amiconn returns and oh-noes :/
22:36:36crzyboysterPerdignus: i know this is kind of off-topic, but how did you manage to get ipodlinux installed?
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22:36:41stripwaxNico_P - all done, seems that it works. Nothing left on my side preventing being committed (until someone throws something else new at me :)
22:36:46stripwaxhttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7218
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22:37:33peturamiconn?
22:37:47Nico_Pstripwax: cool :) I'll take time before committing though
22:38:03Nico_Psome time I mean
22:38:10crzyboysterNico_P: please don't be lazy!
22:38:14Nico_Phehe
22:38:36crzyboysterespecially with new features!
22:38:52crzyboysterso how did you do it?
22:39:01crzyboysterto Perdignus, I mean
22:39:36stripwaxNico_P - sure, whenever
22:39:58Perdignuscrzyboyster actually, recently I couldn't get it re-installed, but originally I used an unofficial installer that worked pretty well
22:40:34crzyboysterwell, i am sure that you will never touch ipodlinux ever again!
22:41:12PerdignusYou're right, I won't, Rockbox is years ahead
22:41:37crzyboysterso, Perdignus, did you get video working?
22:41:38DefineBytethey have different aims
22:42:03crzyboysterDefineByte: I realize this, but rockbox is still better for most users
22:42:34DefineBytecertainly, most people just want a DAP.
22:42:52crzyboysterRedbreva: what's happening with the rockbox-themes.org page?
22:43:24scorchecrzyboyster: what do you mean "what is happening"?
22:43:30Perdignuscrzyboyster I didn't try the video yet, just finished copying the music to the device and now I'll do the DB stuff, I'll let you know how it all goes
22:43:51stripwaxjhMikeS/devs - anything stopping the pacbox-on-cop patch being committed? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8226
22:44:09crzyboysterscorche: well, it says the server has been down, but I asked him and he said that it's being completely redone.
22:44:46scorcheyes, it is
22:44:59crzyboysterso, when will it be back up?
22:45:41scorchelooks up to me...or are you referring to rbutil?
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22:46:12crzyboysterscorche: I don't understand?
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22:47:15scorcherockbox-themes.org looks up to me...
22:47:30crzyboysterwell, any estimate?
22:47:31kugelNico_P: I found the cause of this
22:47:44scorcheestimate of what?
22:47:45kugelthe track list isn't refreshed on changing a setting
22:48:11crzyboysterwhen it will be back up
22:48:26stripwaxcrzyboyster - scorche is saying it doesn't look down
22:48:35scorchei can access it just fine
22:49:12scorchehttp://rockbox-themes.org click the link...
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22:49:25advcomp2019crzyboyster, i can get to rockbox-themes.org
22:49:31stripwaxwffm
22:49:45crzyboysterOH! I see, what i mean is that "Uploading offline untill issues with the server are resolved, sorry!" at the bottom
22:50:10crzyboysterI can get to it, too
22:50:26scorchewell, that is just uploading...not the site
22:51:16crzyboystersorry, i didn't phrase my question properly
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22:54:30crzyboysterso i'm guessing that nobody knows?
22:55:05scorcheit will be up when everything is ready
22:55:06 Quit ender` (" Why do people give each other flowers? To celebrate various important occasions, they're killing living creatures? Why rest")
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22:55:22scorchei would rather not give a date/time
22:56:00pixelmapetur: I read a bit in the logs and you were interested/had questions about building the manual under cygwin?
22:56:21crzyboysterwell, why not scorche?
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22:57:30peturpixelma: interested is a bit over it - wanted to help somebody build the html one and failed too
22:58:10 Part crzyboyster
22:59:06pixelmacan't help with the html manual either :\ one would need to install the tex4ht package manually for cygwin and I couldn't figure it out when I tried a while ago (pondlife neither) :\
22:59:37DefineByteI think Llorean said he managed it.
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23:00
23:01:49stripwaxDoes it normally take a very long time to build the pictureflow database? Mine's been running for about five minutes and the progress bar is about 25% across. I have something like 10000 tracks but less than half that number actually has album art
23:02:13 Join spr0k3t [0] (n=spr0k3t@CPE-69-76-171-220.kc.res.rr.com)
23:02:18petursounds reasonable
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23:05:39 Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net)
23:07:45pixelmasomeone fixed viewvc ;)
23:08:19Zagoryeah, crappy python change library locations again. they do that in every single update, it seems.
23:08:38 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
23:10:27pixelmahow nice...
23:12:03 Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection)
23:13:06stripwaxSaw this about pictureflow: "some images also have a reflection above, haven't worked out what is special about them, maybe size?". Could it occur when the bmp is bottom-up i.e. negative height?
23:13:49Genre9mp3petur: around?
23:13:57peturyup
23:14:18 Quit keanu (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:14:32Genre9mp3petur: you have installed an 80GB drive in you H340, right?
23:14:38peturyes
23:15:00Genre9mp3Is that the MK8007GAH?
23:15:12peturiirc, yes
23:15:59Genre9mp3Today I was searching for a hard drive replacement and I _think_ I've found an 120GB drive that fits into an H340
23:16:07peturwhat?
23:16:25peturno zif connection then?
23:16:34Genre9mp3I think/hope so
23:16:48Genre9mp3Here's a link: http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/productType.do?group=72
23:17:24Genre9mp3If you see, in the N series they have 4 different 120GB models
23:18:08Genre9mp3 HS122JB and HS120JB are listed as "PATA/ZIF" while HS122JC and HS120JC as just "PATA"
23:18:26peturhmmmm
23:19:13Genre9mp3I've made a search on ebay and found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Samsung-120-GB-1-8-Hard-Drive-SpinPoint-HS122JC_W0QQitemZ230203022767QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230203022767#ebayphotohosting
23:19:31Genre9mp3(sorry about the long link)
23:20:10 Quit midkay__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:20:12Genre9mp3I'm a bit confused though, because if I judge from the pic, it seems to me that the drive is 2.5' and not 1.8'
23:20:31 Quit Perdignus ("[BX] iTs bEttEr tO bUrN oUt tHaN tO fAdE aWaY")
23:21:03peturyes, the dimensions look wrong
23:21:40Genre9mp3though, at samsung site they clearly state that HS122JC is an 1.8 drive
23:23:32 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:23:59stripwaxSome weird pictureflow bugs: 1. With a mixture of 100x100 and 200x200 bmps in my collection, scrolling past a 'large' album sometimes makes one of the smaller covers in the background pop to the front for a moment, breaking the illusion
23:24:43stripwax2. One of my albums, when I select it, shows the same tracklisting three times over (tracklisting screen has a list that is three times longer than it should be)
23:24:49Genre9mp3petur: any ideas on this?
23:25:12stripwaxAnother of mine has the tracklisting displayed twice
23:25:44stripwax3. In the settings menu, selecting "Zoom" brings up a new submenu with the title "Number Of Slides" (rather than "Zoom")
23:25:52stripwaxIt is the zoom menu, but the title is wrong
23:27:26stripwax4. CPU is left boosted even when we're just in the settings menu or the tracklisting page doing nothing - would it not be better to only boost while animating?
23:30:51bobrulesyay svn is back
23:31:58peturGenre9mp3: the current toshiba's are 78.5x54x8 and that samsung is 71x54x8 which would explain that it looks more square
23:33:38peturit would be nice to know what they mean with PATA though
23:34:07 Quit ptw419 (Remote closed the connection)
23:35:01Genre9mp3pity that you can't see the connector in that pic
23:35:14peturindeed - maybe ask the seller?
23:35:15 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
23:35:34Genre9mp3this is what I'm about to do
23:35:54Genre9mp3H300 needs a 50pin layout right?
23:36:53peturyes, see http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/HardDriveReplacement
23:37:35peturdo you update that wiki page, btw?
23:38:11Genre9mp3sure... though I'm not sure about the connectors on these models
23:38:30Genre9mp3I'll update the wiki a bit later
23:38:43peturgreat
23:38:53peturI gtg anyway...
23:38:59Genre9mp3ok
23:39:01Genre9mp3see you
23:39:03Genre9mp3and thanks
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23:52:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:53:48bobrulesI went into debug menu and messed with view battery, how do I restore to default?
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