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#rockbox log for 2007-12-18

00:01:29 Join bobrules [0] (n=ggdgdgd@CPE00032f3a0ced-CM0013718c1238.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
00:15:16 Join Savior [0] (n=ysavior@cpe-65-25-140-203.columbus.res.rr.com)
00:16:11SaviorCan anyone here help me with my RockBox Sansa e200 problem?
00:16:51Soapnot if you don't ask.
00:17:12bobruleswhat is the probelm
00:17:38 Quit toffe82 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:17:42SaviorAfter I installed RockBox my computer quit syncing my e200
00:18:11 Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@h-74-0-180-178.snvacaid.covad.net)
00:18:38bobrulesis it connected to your computer?
00:18:43krazykitSavior, are you booting into the original firmware?
00:19:22SaviorYes, my e200 is connected to my computer right now.
00:19:35bobrulesdoes it show the original firmware?
00:19:41bobrulesjust press and hold power
00:19:44bobrulesit will restart
00:20:26SaviorOk, it's off.
00:20:58bobrulesrestart it
00:21:04 Join keanu|afk [0] (n=keanu@pool-71-254-205-217.hrbgpa.east.verizon.net)
00:21:13Saviork
00:21:20bobruleswhat do you see?
00:21:35Savioron my computer or on my Sansa?
00:21:45bobrulessansa
00:22:11Saviorit loaded up the "Sansdisk" logo, then the "rockBox" logo, and now I'm on the main menu
00:22:20Savior*RockBox
00:22:44bobrulesthat's weird it should automatically go to your original firmware
00:23:28bobrulesunplug your sansa from the computer then plug it backin does it turn on by itself?
00:23:30 Join pixelma_ [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:23:42krazykitSavior, you should be able to turn the sansa off, plug it into the computer, and it will automatically boot into the original firmware
00:23:52 Quit davina ("xchat on Ubuntu 7.04")
00:24:28Saviorit loaded by itself and then went to the RockBox menu
00:24:38Saviorwait, it's on the original menu now
00:24:54krazykityou should be able to sync now
00:25:09 Quit freqmod_nx (Remote closed the connection)
00:25:43Saviormy computer still won't sync it
00:25:50 Quit _pill ("changing servers")
00:26:04 Quit pixelma (Nick collision from services.)
00:26:04 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:26:05 Join freqmod_nx [0] (i=freqmod@dhcp208-90.ed.ntnu.no)
00:26:08 Join pill [0] (i=pill@sloth.shellfx.net)
00:26:24Saviorit said that it found a device, but when I go to My Computer my Sansa isn't listed in the drives, and WMP can't find it
00:27:11 Quit hcs ("Leaving.")
00:27:35 Join case__ [0] (n=case@ip-48.net-80-236-112.lhaylesroses.rev.numericable.fr)
00:27:39case__hi there
00:27:59DefineBytehowdy
00:29:18case__i've frozen my sansa e2xx with the latest rockbox built. it's seems powered off, else the blue ring which is enlightened... anybody know how i can reset/reboot it?
00:29:52krazykitcase__, hold the power button until it turns off, which is about 15 seconds
00:29:58 Quit n1s ()
00:30:10krazykitSavior, and you're sure it's in the original firmware? have you tried plugging it into a different USB port?
00:30:17 Quit Rob222241 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:30:25 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p54B138FA.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:30:42case__krazykit, thanks a lot
00:30:52SaviorYeah, I've tried all three of the ports on my computer.
00:31:13SaviorAnd it is the original firmware, but it's not on the sync menu
00:31:28case__by the way, i've tried the latest build because all the builds since some time seems to have a pretty anoying issue: the buttons are not mapped as espected (ie, as before, when it was nice to navigate, etc...)
00:31:52krazykitSavior, have you tried the General Trick for fixing Windows (reboot it)?
00:32:05pixelmacase__: that's not an "issue"
00:32:21DefineByteas opposed to the trick for linux (restarting X) x)
00:32:30case__pixelma, ok, but how can i fix this non-issue? :)
00:32:40SaviorI'll try rebooting it...
00:32:44 Part Savior
00:32:50Lloreancase__: Compile a new build using the old keymaps-e200.c file...
00:33:00LloreanThe button mapping changed, and the new mapping is described in the manual
00:33:06krazykitcase__, 1)get used to the new keymap or 2) what Llorean said.
00:33:32 Join animeloe [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
00:33:40 Quit keanu (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:34:04 Join keanu [0] (n=keanu@pool-71-254-209-11.hrbgpa.east.verizon.net)
00:34:22 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
00:35:00case__ok, sorry guys, i was sure it was actualy an issue because i wan't able to understand how this new mapping was supposed to work. i realy thank it was broken. i'll have a look at the manual.
00:41:18 Join Delvien [0] (n=dm@cpe-65-24-167-246.columbus.res.rr.com)
00:41:38 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
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00:44:06 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
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00:48:50 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
00:50:37 Join intruz [0] (n=intruz@adsl-75-6-145-109.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net)
00:51:20intruzdoes support for the e200 series of sansas have any exceptions?
00:51:44krazykitintruz, the v2 ones are not supported
00:52:23intruzhow can i tell if it is v2
00:52:33intruzdo i have to actually have the device
00:52:44intruzim thinking about buying one and want to make sure it is supported first
00:52:49krazykitthe sure-fire way is that the device says "v2" on the back. the box also might say "Audible Support"
00:53:29intruzhttp://www.ecost.com/Detail.aspx?edp=39402103
00:54:15krazykitrecertified. it's most likely a v1, but it's really impossible to say
00:54:39intruzguess i could always return it
00:54:41intruzok
00:54:42intruzthanks
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00:58:54 Join animeloe_ [0] (n=animeloe@unaffiliated/animeloe)
01:00
01:00:13 Quit Delvien ("*bashes head against keyboard*")
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01:00:44 Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:03:17 Quit animeloe (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:04:34pixelmakrazykit: there were reports of some refurbished c2x0s (I think) that had the v2 on the back but were actually v1 models
01:05:21 Quit HellDragon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:05:47pixelmathe safest way I know of to tell them apart is the OF version
01:06:00 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
01:07:33 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
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01:25:30 Join Savior [0] (n=ysavior@cpe-65-25-140-203.columbus.res.rr.com)
01:26:49Saviorso I rebooted my computer, and when I plugged my e200 back in it turned on and gave me a screen with multiple flickering red lines
01:27:07 Join homielowe [0] (n=chatzill@d207-81-67-190.bchsia.telus.net)
01:27:49Saviormy computer also refuses to sync my e200
01:28:01krazykitSavior, well that's strange. try this: unplug the e200, turn it off, then turn it back on while holding left/rewind/back. does it take you to the original firmware without issue?
01:28:57Saviorno, now the screen is just black
01:29:05bobrulesmake sure in your original firmware you are in msc mode
01:30:00SaviorI can't change it from MTP because I can't access the original firmware. :/
01:30:54bobruleswhen your player is off, press power then immediately hold left
01:31:04bobruleshold it by the way
01:31:34Saviorit didn't do anything
01:31:42Saviorthe LCD screen didn't even turn on
01:31:46bobrulesdid you use the rockbox utillity to install rockbox?
01:31:47Saviorjust the scroll ring
01:31:52Savioryeah
01:32:38bobrulesyou can go into rockbox is that correct?
01:32:43Saviorno
01:32:44 Quit entropic (Remote closed the connection)
01:33:05Saviorwhen I turn it on now the LCD screen doesn't turn on
01:33:10bobruleshold on, so when you power on you get a blue ring no matter what?
01:33:16Savioryeah
01:33:46bobrulesthat's a sign of bricked sansa s=
01:33:51SaviorD:
01:33:54krazykitbobrules, no, his sansa is NOT bricked
01:34:04bobrulesok
01:34:06 Join pradin [0] (n=pradin@psyduck-08.dynamic.rpi.edu)
01:34:14krazykitSavior, check out the SansaE200Unbrick page for recovery mode
01:34:26 Join entropic [0] (n=grey@mal2.stopavoiding.us)
01:34:30bobrulesyou might wana try going into recovery mode
01:34:31Saviorok
01:35:01Savior...where can I find this page?
01:35:08Savioris it on the RockBox website?
01:35:19krazykitSavior, on the wiki
01:35:21scorcheit is the name of a wiki page on the rockbox site
01:35:40Savioroh, ok
01:36:20bobrulesSavior when your put your sansa on hold, then hold record then press power still holding on to record
01:36:38bobrulesif it opens follow the instructions
01:37:01Saviorit's not opening
01:37:44bobrulesdo you have a v2 on the back of your sansa?
01:37:55 Quit z35 ("Leaving")
01:37:59Saviorno
01:38:38bobruleshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzEHrOEWv8A
01:38:43bobrulesmy bad
01:38:45bobruleswrong thing
01:38:48 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:38:50bobrulesdon't go in their
01:38:52bobruleshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzEHrOEWv8A
01:39:07bobrulessorry I didn't copy paste right
01:39:09bobruleshttp://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8953
01:39:19bobrulessee if that helps
01:40:22bobruleshttp://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19026
01:40:38bobrulesmaybe your battery either didn't charge or is dead
01:41:49scorchei want the last 35 seconds of my life back
01:42:01 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
01:43:42bobrulesI need to go for a while
01:43:48bobrulesmaking cupcakes
01:43:58scorcheplease stay on-topic..
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01:45:58 Quit scorche (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!")
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01:53:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:53:46sauronconfused by the e200 under rockbox skipping to the next song after 2:30, sometimes.
01:54:19sauronconsistent within tracks. if a track won't play past 2:30 it never will.
01:54:37 Part Savior
01:55:29sauronchecked encoding. similar, say 128bit encoding gives various results.
01:56:42sauronany pointers? older builds as an option. I'd take a hit on extra's, etc for playback.
02:00
02:01:29 Quit DefineByte ("Bye all")
02:02:34 Join scorche [50] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
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02:24:23 Part pixelma
02:24:35krazykitsauron, if this is happening, i'd update to the very newest build, try to reproduce the problem, and make a bug report
02:24:48krazykitsauron, but also make sure that the files play correctly on your computer
02:25:11 Quit hcs ("Leaving.")
02:25:14saurondone
02:25:51sauronthx krazykit. working ...
02:27:31 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
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02:28:29 Part toffe82
02:29:41sauronkrazykit: I'm at the latest build. I'll have to dredge the bugtracking first for dup reports.
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02:47:58 Part webguest75
02:48:12 Join crzyboyster [0] (n=6210f050@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7e8035cabe339a4c)
02:48:38crzyboysterare there any more pictureflow updates planned?
02:48:48crzyboyster(please say yes :P)
02:49:46 Join BigBambi [0] (n=85567220@rockbox/staff/BigBambi)
02:49:56 Join HellDragon [0] (i=jd@unaffiliated/helldragon)
02:51:31crzyboysteranother question: is it possible to increase the buffer on my nano
02:54:30crzyboysterwhat's happened?
02:54:43 Part crzyboyster
02:54:50safetydanno patience these days
02:55:16advcomp2019safetydan, i was thinking the same
02:55:22 Join crzyboyster [0] (n=6210f050@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-361e52e3ab89e917)
02:55:49crzyboysterso, anyone got the answer :D i'm back
02:56:12safetydancrzyboyster: people aren't always watching IRC. This is usually a pretty quiet part of the day so responses could be a while in coming.
02:56:28safetydanalso, no one plans updates, they just happen whenever someone gets around to it
02:56:38 Join schlasim [0] (n=chatzill@77-57-61-25.dclient.hispeed.ch)
02:57:01crzyboysteris it possible to increase the buffer on my nano?
02:57:28schlasimhi guys
02:57:36safetydancrzyboyster: which buffer?
02:57:53maraz_i would guess the audio buffer
02:57:56schlasimi've a problem running rockbox on my 3g 40gb ipod
02:58:02crzyboysterthe playback buffer i think (like for audio and pictureflow)
02:58:29schlasimanyone here who can help me?
02:58:48safetydanschlasim: you'll need to be more specific with what your problem is
02:59:03safetydancrzyboyster: pictureflow uses the plugin buffer which you can change in the source
02:59:34schlasimi will: my problem: i used rbutilqt.exe"
02:59:45schlasimto get rockbox on my ipod
02:59:48crzyboystersafetydan: how would one go about doing this?
03:00
03:00:03crzyboysterand how much is there available to expand?
03:00:06Soapschlasim: what model iPod do you have?
03:00:21crzyboysteralso, what is the buffer using? i dont't want my ipod overheating, etc
03:00:22Soapnevermind - I see now - I should have looked up
03:00:31safetydancrzyboyster: find the value, change it and then recompile. It's probably not something you want to change lightly though.
03:00:39schlasimnow, when i reboot it it tells me something like "data abort at..."
03:00:39krazykitcrzyboyster, your ipod won't overheat from buffer being used.
03:00:59schlasim3g 40gb (see above)
03:01:39crzyboysterwhat exactly is the buffer? can someone explain to me, is it just the flash being used? also does more battery get used?
03:01:56 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
03:02:22maraz_crzyboyster: the buffers aren't on the non-volatile flash chip but in the volatile memory of the device
03:02:29maraz_ie. RAM
03:02:29krazykitcrzyboyster, it's roughly analagous to your computer's RAM.
03:02:34safetydancrzyboyster: the buffer is RAM and is where all the program code goes when it's running. It's also used to buffer things loaded from the harddrive (though this isn't as important on flash targets).
03:03:35crzyboysterso how big can this buffer possibly be
03:03:42crzyboysterpushed to its limits
03:03:58schlasimcould it be, that only older versions work with my 3g?
03:03:59safetydan32 MiB minus whatever Rockbox is using for code.
03:04:03 Join Vapre [0] (n=473efbed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-ec33af2e919a14dc)
03:04:09safetydanat least I think the nano has 32 MiB
03:04:12Vapreanyone good at unbricking a sansa w/e200tool?
03:04:17krazykitschlasim, no, new version should work just fine
03:04:36crzyboysterso how much does rockbox use by default?
03:04:47 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
03:04:48schlasimwhat can i do, to solve the problem?
03:04:52krazykitVapre, what's the issue, specifically
03:04:59advcomp2019Vapre, there is a few people but what is your issue
03:05:17Vaprewell I can get it to recover the BL_SD_BOARDSUPPORTSD.ROM
03:05:23Vapreand I hold down the record button
03:05:26Vaprebut it just sits there
03:05:29Vapreis it an i2c issue
03:05:50Vapreand by 'just sits there' I mean it doesn't go into recovery mode
03:06:03safetydancrzyboyster: on the nano it uses around 1.1 MiB I think
03:06:07 Quit crzyboyster ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:06:08VapreI bought it off ebay
03:06:15advcomp2019Vapre, you use the the e200tool in manufacturer mode
03:06:17Vapreand whoever had it before me bricked it something spectacularly
03:06:18VapreRight
03:06:23VapreI used it in man. mode
03:06:30VapreI've unbricked other players before
03:06:38Vaprevia e200tool and manufacturing mode
03:06:47Vaprebut I'm having no luck with this one
03:07:03intruzdoes rockbox support divx
03:07:13advcomp2019intruz, no
03:07:18krazykitintruz, no, only mpeg1 and mpeg2. consult the wiki for more information
03:07:52Vapreshould I run an i2c program
03:08:01schlasimthe only thing that worked was to use rbutilqt v 1.0.1 under linux in combination with ipodpatcher (which i hade to chmod 7xx to get it working)...
03:08:20schlasimso any suggestions to get the new software on to my ipod?
03:08:21VapreI can get the daughterboard to mount into recovery mode if I put it on another semi-working (bad LCD) board
03:08:27krazykitVapre, well, you can't really mess it up anymore than it already is, and manu. mode isn't working...
03:09:00Vaprewhat, if anything is stored on the mainboard?
03:09:15Vaprethe BL? The i2c?
03:09:38schlasimSoap, krazykit, Vapre: any suggestions?
03:10:09krazykitschlasim, unzip the latest build into your ipod. if that fails, try an earlier version and try to determine when it breaks?
03:10:21safetydanschlasim: try the manual install process that's documented in the manual. Ensure that you're using the latest version of the ipodpatcher and a current build of rockbox.
03:10:43schlasimwhere do i get an earlier version?
03:10:48Vaprewhat's wrong w/his ipod
03:11:02krazykitVapre, read the log to find out.
03:12:31safetydanschlasim: from the daily build page there's a link to old builds for each target including the iPod 4G
03:12:35sauronkrazykit: nm, error exists between console and brain.
03:12:37 Part pradin
03:12:49schlasimthx
03:13:16Vaprehttp://www.rockbox.org/dl.cgi?bin=ipod3g
03:13:25Vaprethere's the link to old 3G ipod builds
03:14:27VapreHas anyone had any luck unbricking a sansa e200 series
03:14:45 Join lemur_ [0] (n=lemur@76.89.214.49)
03:15:33safetydanVapre: I'm assuming you've read the unbrick wiki page? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200Unbrick
03:15:35krazykitVapre, if manufacturing mode isn't rebooting to recovery mode and you're doing the exact same process that you have in the past with other players, it might be worth trying to recover the i2c: you really don't have anything to lose at this point if recovering the bootloader isn't working.
03:16:01Vapreok
03:16:29Vapreso in e200, that's the i2cprogram switch, right?
03:16:36krazykitwhatever the wiki says
03:18:50Vapreso the NAND flash, is that on the daughterboard
03:20:50 Quit HellDragon (Client Quit)
03:21:59krazykitVapre, as I understand it, yes.
03:22:04schlasim"data abort" again, how do i change to an older version now? just extract it to my ipod?
03:22:13krazykitschlasim, that's correct
03:23:10safetydanschlasim: yes. Though, when was the last time you updated your bootloader with ipodpatcher? The current version is 2.0
03:23:51VapreWell then maybe it's a hardware issue? If I can get the daughterboard to work on another sansa mainboard, it's gotta be hardware, or am I wrong
03:23:53schlasimhow can i see my version?
03:24:10schlasimi just used ipodpatcher anyway
03:24:25schlasimi downloaded it 10min ago
03:25:41safetydanschlasim: and you reinstalled the bootloader?
03:25:59schlasimyes
03:26:04schlasimi did
03:26:41schlasimi completely set my ipod up (restore in itunes) and after that, i installed the bootloader
03:27:12safetydanright, now which build are you downloading? The exact URL would be good.
03:28:18schlasimok guys: revision 15942 works
03:28:48schlasimi don't know why, but it does...
03:28:49Soapsafetydan: IF he had installed the wrong version of Rockbox, like (for example) he was mistaken on what model he had - would that produce said "data abort" error?
03:29:35schlasimanother question: does rockbox support filetransfer for my 3g?
03:29:52safetydanSoap: good point. I was getting confused with a different user error.
03:30:07schlasimor do i have to use itunes to get my songs onto my ipod?
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03:31:48safetydanschlasim: boot in to disk mode and you can copy files however you want.
03:32:51schlasimthis means, that rockbox recognizes files, if i just put a couple of mp3's in an arbitrary folder on my ipod?
03:34:25safetydanschlasim: yes. Generally people create a folder called music in the root of their iPod and copy music there in whatever structure they waynt.
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03:35:39schlasimthanks a lot for your assistance! nice work! i'll go to sleep now (we have 3:35 a.m. now ;-)) cu
03:36:41sauronlinus is a few minutes away up the hill, as unapproachable as ever. Intel Was a 10 minute commute from downtown, PDX Was a good one. a native. waves!
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04:28:43Traveleris there a way to speed up rockboy?
04:31:10safetydanTraveler: no. Unless you (or someone else) works on optimising the source.
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04:32:12Travelernah, only game I use rockboy for is pokemon, if anything I should try making my own rock of it instead. new pokemon that way :D
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06:12:05BobShieldis rockbox.org down?
06:13:10krazykitno
06:13:24BobShieldinteresting
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08:42:53RhymerOk. I've got a question. Not sure if you guys can help me at all but this's the only place I could think to come. Is there any way to restore a crashed iPOD using Rockbox? Or any application anybody knows of that'll do it other than Itunes as I am totally blind and Itunes isn't accessible.
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08:44:57GodEater_Rhymer: define "crashed"
08:46:58RhymerOh. I was playing music and I turned off the iPOD.
08:47:11RhymerWhen I went to turn it on and play music later it would not turn on.
08:47:15RhymerThe screen is black.
08:47:28GodEater_and a hard reset doesn't work ?
08:47:38RhymerI connected it to the PC and when I did it didn't show up as a device in windows.
08:47:55RhymerIf I hold it up to my ear it makes a clicking sound as if the drive is trying to spin...
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08:48:20RhymerHow do you do a hard reset?
08:48:28RhymerI think that's what I did but am not sure.
08:48:40GodEater_turn the hold switch to on, then to off, and then hold down the menu+select buttons
08:48:49GodEater_keep them held down until it resets
08:48:57RhymerOk. Hang on one second.
08:49:05GodEater_it'll take closer to ten ;)
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08:49:46RhymerNope...Didn't reset.
08:50:01RhymerDo I need to unplug it from the PC to do that?
08:50:12GodEater_shouldn't have to but it might help
08:50:20GodEater_you didn't hold the buttons down long enough though
08:50:20RhymerOk.
08:50:24GodEater_it *can* take nearly a minute
08:50:37RhymerHere we go. I'm going to try again.
08:52:02RhymerNope.
08:52:29peturflat battery?
08:52:44GodEater_then he should get the "very low battery" screen no ?
08:52:46RhymerIt's been on the charger for a good six hours.
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08:53:52GodEater_if there's any juice at all, the hard reset should at LEAST get to the very low battery screen
08:53:58GodEater_if it doesn't - then the iPod is broken
08:54:19peturfyi, the procedure is here: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61705
08:54:38RhymerWell...I think my iPOD just bit the dust then as nothing happened that I coluld see...I can see light, enough to know if the screen was lit.
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08:55:02GodEater_ah - the very low battery screen doesn't have a backlight
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08:55:26GodEater_which model of ipod do you have ?
08:55:32RhymerOh hey! Then that may be why...Um...And it would not have a vocal reminder of any type?
08:55:32GodEater_I forgot to ask
08:55:50GodEater_I don't think there's any vocal reminder in any part of Apple's firmware
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08:58:16RhymerOh it's a 30-gb iPOD Video. Can'ttell you the model number.
08:58:44GodEater_you don't need to
08:59:14GodEater_I just wanted to make sure the reset sequence I'd give you was right for that sort of ipod. It is.
09:00
09:00:29Rhymer*Nods* Thank you for your help. It's much appreciated. Maybe if I'm very very very very lucky it will charge i.e maybe if I'm lucky it went to the low battery screen and will charge a...
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09:01:00GodEater_bye then
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09:30:45GodEater_I've just copied linuxstb's design proposal from his original site into the wiki - incase anyone is interested in looking it over : http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ViewPortsDesign
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09:35:45ShaidHrrm, never really noticed that rockbox only supports one font at a time. I feel my coding juices flowing.
09:36:39D|sToRt|oNlmao
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09:46:31peturGodEater: regarding fg_pattern and bg_pattern, is there a color defined for transparency? otherwise the viewport would remove the backdrop...
09:47:16jharubeen trying to run the vmware on my pc but it says noy enough physical mem... what is its minimum requirements? (the virtual machine) im using winxp at 256 ram p4 2ghz
09:47:25peturand using forground transparency, you could draw patterned text on a colored background :)
09:47:43jharuthis is my home pc btw
09:47:56peturjharu: your pc only has 256MB memory?
09:48:06jharuyeah...
09:48:20jharuram not rom
09:48:25peturthat will be too little
09:48:41peturI don't know if vmware can use virtual memory
09:49:06Shaideh, you really wouldn't want it to.
09:49:32scorchejharu: you could always lower the memory it is asking for and see how it does
09:50:00GodEater_petur: it's linuxstb's proposal :) But feel free to annotate it :)
09:50:18jharuthats why im askin what is the recommended so i can upgrade it. scorche, how can i? it says not enough to even run the guest os...
09:50:39jharuim using sdr not ddr
09:51:00GodEater_I wouldn't try running ANY sort of VM on a machine with that little memory.
09:52:02scorchejharu: it likely wont help you, as you have so little, but you can reduce the memory it wants by editing the .vmx file...256 is the bare minimum i ever take it though, and that is too much for your system
09:52:18jharu*jharu is thinking what now... is there any possible way to use vmware...
09:52:44GodEater_I'd be binning the winxp install and installing linux myself. You could try a live cd though.
09:53:06GodEater_of course, that will only build the simulator though
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09:53:51peturI wouldn't advise jharu to install Linux....
09:54:10GodEater_hence the livecd suggestion....
09:54:18jharuyou're using the debian right, i only have redhat...
09:54:43GodEater_the distro is irrelevant
09:54:50jharuand linspire...
09:55:07peturthe vmware image is already slimmed down very much....
09:55:39jharuyeah bot the vmx for rockbox is a whopping 2 gigs
09:55:59GodEater_that's to give you some free disc space to play with
09:56:22GodEater_there'd be little point giving you an image which only had enough room for it's content, and nothing new
09:56:26GodEater_you wouldn't be able to use it
09:57:18jharuah well im trying redhat on usb load hope that this works...
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09:59:09peturGodEater: article annotated...
09:59:20GodEater_cool
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10:09:43jharuhmmm........... my pc wont recognize both usb and the cd i bougth...
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10:22:10pixelmais now someone around who can explain to me what the "Charge During USB Connection" setting in the battery submenu does (or should do) and what it is good for? I'd like to describe it in the manual as it's currently not even mentioned.
10:22:57peturisn't it fairly obvious or am I missing something?
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10:23:23markunpixelma: it's not implemeted for the Gigabeat, don't know which targets do support it
10:23:27pixelmawhy would I have to turn it on or off?
10:23:51pixelmamarkun: but the setting is there on the Gigabeats (according to the sim...)
10:23:55markunmaybe if you connect your player with OTG you don't want to drain the battery of the other device
10:24:06peturif you don't want short charge cycles every time you connect it to pc?
10:24:10markunpixelma: yes, there is not #ifdef around it I guess
10:24:29markunnot -> no
10:24:34pixelmamarkun: there must be as it is not on my M5 for example
10:24:41pixelmanot there
10:24:42markunah, let me check
10:24:53markunmaybe the M5 has no USB charging at all
10:25:13markunthe Gigabeat has, but we can't turn it off (at least we don't know how to do it)
10:25:22pixelmaaha
10:27:00pixelmaso, the question changes: is it necessary to explain a non-working feature? And on which targets is it working?
10:27:14pondlifeWorks on H300
10:27:52markunmaybe we should add a HAVE_ENABLE_USB_CHARGING
10:27:52pondlifeAnd ideally it should be not listed until it works (in settings or manual)
10:30:25ZagorI question the value of the option
10:31:04pondlifeLinusN wanted it, IIRC
10:31:14pixelmaI could find it in the following sims: FM-Recorder/RecorderV2, H300, Gigabeat, some Ipods - so I guess the only ones where it is working are the H300 and the Archos ones?
10:31:54pixelmaZagor: that's what I thought. Maybe I shouldn't bother after all.
10:32:03pondlifePersonally I'd always want to charge if possible, but it's currently only taking 100mA on H300, rather than the full 500mA
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10:35:01Zagorpondlife: do we know if that is due to our charging code or is the pc only "sending" 100mA?
10:35:23pondlifeNot sure, but the OF allegedly uses 500mA
10:35:29pondlifeIf you believe Windows
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10:35:37pondlifeSo probably us
10:35:44peturthe OF has a setting for it I think
10:36:16peturyou can set USB to hub or PC and I think it selects charging
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10:41:24yoavkwhere can I get a list of all the buttons?
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10:45:27pixelmaand why is there no battery capacity setting on the Sansas? :>
10:46:03markunyoavk: in firmware/target in the folder for your target look at button-target.h
10:46:14linuxstbpetur: Regarding your fg_pattern/bg_pattern question, backdrops would (at least for the first implementation) remain global - i.e. the backdrop is related to the screen, not to any particular viewport, So if the screen has a backdrop set, then that's what will be used as the background for all viewports on that screen.
10:46:30petursure
10:47:25peturI was thinking about the fg/bg setting of each viewport. If you can only specify a color, the backdrop would be obscured
10:47:42rasherpixelma: because only one type of battery exists for it afaik?
10:48:00yoavkmarkun: Thanks
10:48:27markunno problem
10:49:01yoavkHow do I check if more than one button is pressed simultaneously?
10:49:07GodEater_linuxstb: hope you don't mind me posting that
10:49:38linuxstbpetur: That's what I'm saying - if the screen has a backdrop, the bgpattern for all viewports is ignored.
10:50:31peturoh...
10:52:07markunyoavk: with the OR operator: |
10:52:40GodEater_markun: why not & ?
10:52:42pixelmarasher: maybe, but who knows when others will be available - isn't it a bit of an artificial restriction? By the way, the lang file does not exclude these strings...
10:52:53yoavkmarkun: meaning somthing like: case BUTTON_PLAY | BUTTON_SELECT:
10:52:57linuxstbGodEater_: Not at all.
10:54:00GodEater_it's just the subject came up yesterday, and I had to do some digging to find the url to your original page :)
10:54:35linuxstbGodEater_: Although why does the page use "View Ports" in some places, and "viewports" in others?
10:54:52GodEater_good question
10:54:56GodEater_let me tidy that up ;)
10:55:32peturdo that, before DefineByte comes along ;)
10:55:35rasherpixelma: well, when replacements pop up, it's hardly a bother to add the setting
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10:56:56markunyoavk: yes
10:58:20GodEater_I've left it as "view port" when describing it in the text (as I'm not sure that 'viewport' is a real english word) but "viewport" in code samples. Acceptable ?
10:58:35linuxstbI would have kept viewport everywhere...
10:58:43GodEater_really ?
10:59:03GodEater_it's not a real word though
10:59:49peturit's not supposed to be a real word, it's a new term
11:00
11:00:39linuxstbIt's a standard term in computer graphics.
11:01:04GodEater_ok changed it then
11:01:50*GodEater_ changes his forum post to match
11:02:58linuxstbAlthough you're right - it's not in the dictionary....
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11:08:31GodEater_I can't even find a satisfactory definition in terms of computer graphics - different sources disagree over it's definition
11:08:50GodEater_anyway - it's now a defined term for Rockbox ;)
11:08:53peturhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viewport
11:10:07GodEater_yes - telling it's actually "Window"
11:14:06peturanyway, viewport gives 1150000 hits in google so it's not really new ;)
11:14:45peturalso used in opengl it seems
11:16:15GodEater_yes, but again not the way we're using it
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11:25:32GodEater_godeater.cream.org/Xmas_Tree_To_Be_Proud_Of.jpg">http://godeater.cream.org/Xmas_Tree_To_Be_Proud_Of.jpg <−− esp. if you're petur
11:27:35ZagorGodEater_: impressive!
11:27:54GodEater_I thought so too :)
11:28:03GodEater_couldn't have it in a house with kids/pets though
11:28:08Zagorhehe
11:29:11GodEater_well - not unless you liked the view in the hospital / vet waiting room
11:29:41pixelmafull or empty bottles? :)
11:30:58GodEater_empty - you'd end up breaking it if they were full - when you tried to get to the ones in the middle to drink them
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11:34:15jharuther must be another way to make my vmware work... i tried linux but its a bit technical to use...
11:35:02Bagderif you run linux with vmware, that's... just linux
11:35:36Bagderrunning something else with vmware on windows to do rockbox dev seems rather pointless
11:35:43Bagderthen you can just as well go the cygwin route
11:36:19Bagderbut I don't know if cygwin is easier to any particular extent
11:36:37GodEater_it's not really - same commands, just different underlying back end
11:37:29GodEater_and therefore slower ;)
11:37:56pixelmaI think cygwin is not that demanding on a low RAM box but it will probably be dog slow too
11:38:24GodEater_would definitely be preferable to trying to run a vmware image
11:38:40yoavkHow can I debug a plugin without compiling rockbox?
11:38:52GodEater_yoavk: with extreme difficulty
11:39:08Bagderdebug without compiling? how do you do that?
11:39:19JoshWget someone else to do it for you?
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11:39:28Bagderor just read code I guess
11:39:31markunyoavk: which plugin are you working on?
11:39:32GodEater_you turn your mind into a state machine, and run the code in your head
11:39:38GodEater_:)
11:39:44yoavkBadger: I mean to debug only the plugin without compiling the whole project
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11:40:42GodEater_yoavk: you mean you've changed something in the plugin code, and just need to rebuild that bit to debug it ?
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11:41:53GodEater_yoavk: you mean you've changed something in the plugin code, and just need to rebuild that bit to debug it ?
11:42:14yoavkGodEater_: yes
11:42:30GodEater_yoavk: just saying "make" again should only rebuild the code which has changed
11:42:42GodEater_provided you haven't done a "make clean" in the middle somewhere
11:42:51yoavkGodEater: Thanks
11:48:08 Quit tedrock (No route to host)
11:49:50jharuok... seems that i dont have any choices for makin vmware work on this trashy pc. any other way i can help?
11:51:41GodEater_jharu: have you tried cygwin ?
11:52:25jharuthe big question is will it work even if im using a 256 mb ram pc.
11:52:36GodEater_it should work a great deal better than vmwaer
11:52:39GodEater_*vmware
11:52:49 Quit TMM ("Ex-Chat")
11:52:50jharuok ill try it.
11:52:55GodEater_it's also considerably smaller than 2 gig
11:53:18GodEater_jharu: make sure you follow the guide in the wiki for installing a rockbox dev environment using cygwin
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11:53:27GodEater_and not just cygwin's own install guide
11:53:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:54:05jharuerrr... ill ask for the how to if ever i got lost. ;]
11:54:14peturand have lots of free time...
11:54:15GodEater_why not read it now
11:54:42GodEater_http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CygwinDevelopment
11:54:46Bagderyou'll recognize the commands, since they're the same you got lost with on the vmware image ;-)
11:55:07Bagdersvn co etc I mean
11:55:33 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
11:55:38jharulol so you are always spyin on my worthless mistakes huh, badger... i mean bagder
11:55:52*Bagder rubs salt in wounds for fun
11:56:02pondlifeMmm, salt...
11:56:10jharutry lemons
11:58:11pondlifeOw
11:58:26pondlifeThat smarts worse than salt
11:58:51jharubut heals twice as quickly
11:59:04jharutried it myself
11:59:08*pondlife tries salt on one arm, lemon on the other
11:59:29pondlifeWith equal sized wounds, of course
11:59:37jharulol
11:59:54pondlifeEntirely OT, but not entirely unscientific.
11:59:59GodEater_pondlife: I don't think it works on dislocated shoulders...
12:00
12:00:18jharucygwin asks if dos or unix for default text...
12:00:22GodEater_unix
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12:01:09peturunless you plan to use tortoisesvn...
12:01:17Bonusbartushi all
12:01:34pixelmajharu: the third option would be using CoLinux (the wiki knows too). IIRC soap preferred it to cygwin on an old box and is the maintainer of the CoLinux package...
12:01:38Bonusbartusnice, this webbased irc works on windows mobile:)
12:02:02BonusbartusI was here yesterday because of my h340 giving me trouble
12:02:11peturpixelma: tried colinux once and failed...
12:02:56pixelmahmm... haven't tried myself, just thought I'd state this option too for completeness :)
12:03:11GodEater_pixelma: at least wait for cygwin to fail first ;)
12:03:14jharunow pixelma tells me... it asks where to downloadsite... any recommendation on where?
12:03:17peturwell it isn't that easy
12:03:23BonusbartusI switched to a supported build (current build) and at first my player functioned normally, I've used the player without problems till the battery was empty
12:03:37GodEater_jharu: find a mirror site located close to you
12:03:50Bonusbartusthis morning the hdd started spinning like an idiot again
12:04:04Bonusbartusmusic kept stuttering
12:04:32peturBonusbartus: do know that this type of battery doesn't like deep discharges
12:04:53BonusbartusI know, but it switched of at 25%
12:05:02peturah ok
12:05:10jharuyeah right, the saudis know how to use the pc as if it was made to be disposable...
12:05:17Bonusbartusbut I found out what caused the problem... and I don't like it
12:05:30GodEater_jharu: what?
12:05:40jharuno links nearest in here so ill just try to click one by one...
12:05:56Bonusbartusafter swithing of "gathering runtime data" the problem is gone...
12:05:57GodEater_jharu: ONE of those links has to be nearest to you by definition
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12:06:05GodEater_unless you live on the edge of the solar syste
12:06:07GodEater_+m
12:06:50GodEater_in which case I congratulate you on your FTL net connection ;)
12:07:09Bonusbartusanyone know how that option can cause my problem?
12:07:27jharugodeater, im in the middle east. where technology is updated but the people use it like its just a piece of toy. you'd laugh that they dont know how to use nero though they can buy a 10,000 usd laptop.
12:07:54GodEater_jharu: I fail to see what that has to do with your choice of mirror site
12:08:25jharuthe first one was blocked.
12:08:40jharuarggh... its blocked again...
12:09:08GodEater_greece or india ?
12:09:15GodEater_they're relatively close
12:09:24Bonusbartuspetur: any idea?
12:10:00peturBonusbartus: I don't use the database and certainly not the gather runtime stuff ;)
12:10:04jharuwhat the?! is there no freedom here? the line kept blockin my dload sayin its some govt shit or something...
12:10:51peturopen source may be too open for your place?
12:11:20jharuwhew. now i finally got one... used proxy server.
12:11:22*GodEater_ veers the conversation away from it's dangerous course into politics
12:11:24Bonusbartuspetur: ah, I find it strange tha it worked like a charm yesterday and now it doesn't, btw I dont use the db either, I just wanted it to work;)
12:11:42GodEater_if you don't use the db - why use "gather runtime data" ?
12:12:06jharuhome pc direct link office pc via wireless using proxies
12:12:14BonusbartusBecause I wanted to teast it and wanted it to work because it worked before
12:12:30*petur wonders if it is still usefull to reset the settings when switching build
12:12:51GodEater_petur: between an unsupported and core build, I would
12:12:55GodEater_not sure if I would otherwise
12:12:58 Quit Bonusbartus ("CGI:IRC (Error)")
12:13:00markunwhich arguments do I have to pass to genlang to create a new translation for rockbox?
12:13:30GodEater_markun: when you find out - update the wiki page ;)
12:14:05markunGodEater_: ah, I found it. "Copy the english.lang to [your language].lang and change all strings within the <dest> and <voice> tags."
12:14:11markunthe very first sentence :)
12:14:25GodEater_hehe
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12:14:45Bonusbartusah ie crashed
12:15:05Bonusbartuspetur: I did reset everything, and I formatted me hdd
12:15:25peturBonusbartus: avoid backspace in the webclient
12:15:26Bonusbartusas I said, for a full day it worked perfectly
12:15:39Bonusbartustnx for the tip
12:16:44Bonusbartushow stable is the db and the gathering runtime data normally?
12:16:58GodEater_on the whole, we're the wrong people to ask
12:17:02GodEater_very few devs use it
12:17:15Bonusbartusdid anything change there in the past few weeks/months?
12:17:27Bagderyes
12:17:45Bonusbartushehe I can see why u dont use it:P
12:18:03BonusbartusBagder: anything that could explain my problems?
12:18:05Bagderyou can?
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12:18:14BagderI don't use it because I see no point
12:18:32BagderBonusbartus: I have no idea, I don't use it...
12:19:09GodEater_bascule would probably say "it's fantastic, stable and <continue gushing here>"
12:19:14GodEater_but he doesn't come onto irc very often
12:19:29GodEater_but I expect he'd be first to complain if it became unstable
12:19:45Bonusbartuswell as I said I dont use it either, just wanted to test it, but I dont like the fact that the db lists things double
12:20:01Bonusbartusif the tags change as little as a space or capital
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12:20:32BagderI'm sure your improvements will be appreciated...
12:21:19Bonusbartussure if I could programm c better tha I do;)
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12:21:52Bonusbartusbut thanks, problem solved, I just dont use that feature anymore on this player
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12:22:45Bonusbartussecond is my batery, I need a new one, I do have warranty left, but chance is they put in another bad one
12:23:03Bonusbartusanyone know where I ca get a good one?
12:24:23GodEater_is the battery in the H3x0 the same as in the H1x0 ?
12:24:35n1syes
12:24:41Bonusbartusyeah
12:24:55GodEater_then buy an Apple 1G/2G replacement
12:24:58GodEater_which you can get from all over
12:25:03GodEater_and switch the polarity on it
12:25:07GodEater_takes about 30 secondes
12:25:16GodEater_and even *I* managed it, and I don't do hardware mods ;)
12:25:19Bonusbartusany particular brand?
12:25:25 Nick Soap_ is now known as Soap (n=Soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
12:25:33GodEater_mine was made in china, and didn't come branded
12:25:38n1sthe one that doesn't baloon (tm)
12:25:42GodEater_:)
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12:26:11Bonusbartushehe ;) tnx n1s
12:26:43GodEater_Bonusbartus: misticriver host a "switch your own battery" guide somewhere
12:26:48GodEater_and it's really a doddle to follow
12:26:57jharuhow about the sansa battery? ive heard it has some resemblance to a nokia but i dont know which model.
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12:27:58Bonusbartusgodeater: tnx Ill check it out
12:32:08 Quit Bonusbartus ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
12:38:02yoavkHow do I handle files (Choose,open,close,input,output...)?
12:38:12jharucygwin runs but i dont know if i installed it rigth... after installing the ones from the other sites i proceeded in using the url found in the wiki. but when i tried the svn co it says svn: command not found...
12:38:44GodEater_you didn't install the svn package then
12:38:54Bagdermention in 2.1 in the wiki page
12:39:16GodEater_re-run setup
12:39:21GodEater_and pick all those packages we mention
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12:40:32rasherjharu: how similar do you mean? It's "flat and have contacts at the top", but other than that, it isn't much like the BL-5B in my nokia phone.
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12:42:44jharu?! what are you talkin about rasher? and im not seeing any svn on the list on my chosen site here.
12:43:05GodEater_jharu: it's under devel, and it's not called svn, it's called subversion.
12:43:22rasherjharu: You said you'd heard that the sansa battery was similar to nokia batteries.
12:43:32LinusNjharu: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CygwinDevelopment
12:45:10jharurasher, i dont know really. i just saw it somewhere over at abi forums but it was days ago.
12:46:47jharuand one thing nokia has other batteries used by other models so i really cant say...
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12:48:51jharuoogabooga moos!!! lol
12:49:10mooshello :)
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12:55:26jharuafter 10 minutes i finally get 1% on my setup...
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13:00
13:00:04yoavkHow do I configure my plugin to be in the "open with" list?
13:00:48GodEater_viewers.config
13:01:15yoavkthanks
13:01:26rasherNico_P: a few wishes: a) static location for albumart (reduces clutter) b) the fade effect in the tracklist in pictureflow isn't very noticeable - especially not with a large font - maybe the amount of "fading" should depend on the number of items on screen or something (or font height)
13:02:32Nico_Prasher: I don't understand a)
13:03:22GodEater_Nico_P: i.e. don't keep the .bmp file in the same directory as the music
13:03:34GodEater_put them all in .rockbox/albumart or something
13:03:40rasherNico_P: looking for album art in a static location such as /.rockbox/covers/ or something
13:03:43GodEater_I assume </speaking for rasher>
13:03:53Nico_Pah
13:03:55 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
13:03:58jharuand add music preview while at it nico_p. :D
13:05:09rasherNico_P: do you mangle filenames to remove illegal characters when looking for albumtitle.bmp, by the way?
13:07:16rasherI wonder why rocklife ended up under Games. It might be called Game of Life, but it's hardly a game in any real sense.
13:07:55pixelmahow would that work with multiple albums of the same name?
13:08:15GodEater_extend the naming convention to artist name too ?
13:08:15rasherNot at all.
13:08:36rasherThat might be sensible, at least when looking in a single location
13:08:58Soaprasher: on "Game of Life" - if you can load/save states it is a game.
13:09:19rasherSoap: You can't (not at this moment, anyway).
13:09:25pixelmaGodEater: that might work if you have x "Best Of"s but I know at least three albums with the name "Home" and I wouldn't want to add the artist name there
13:09:30Soapor more correctly, if you can load custom start points.
13:09:53Soapyea, so it is an unfinished game.
13:09:54rasherpixelma: I think he means to look for "<artistname>-<albumname>.bmp"
13:10:09Nico_Prasher: yeah there is a check
13:10:11pixelmaok, I see
13:10:24GodEater_pixelma: yes sorry
13:10:29GodEater_I should be more expansive :)
13:10:50rasherNico_P: so would I replace illegal characters with something?
13:11:23Nico_Prasher: most illigal chars are replaced by underscores
13:11:32Nico_Pdouble quotes are replaced by single quotes
13:12:26Nico_Prasher: and about static location, it sounds good... has there been a discussion I missed?
13:13:03rasherNico_P: not that I know of
13:13:47rasherExcept I'm pretty sure I brought it up at one time, I think pre-aa-commit. Don't remember what came of it
13:17:01Nico_Pok
13:17:30rasherIt was simply a suggestion for something I'd personally like, and think seems like a generally good idea.
13:19:23Nico_PI like it too and it's quite a trivial change... I don't really have time for it right now though
13:20:51rasherI'm in no hurry. Including the artist name is probably a good idea.
13:20:56peturGodEater: regarding iriver batteries: ipod replacemen batts are a bad suggestions as you have to switch wires and I've had bad experience with them. CameronSino is a good brand that sells iriver replacement batts on ebay for a good price
13:21:43peturGodEater_ too ;)
13:22:46rasherWhere "a good price" is about triple that of generic ipod batteries.
13:22:59peturno way
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13:24:38peturrasher: this one is CameronSino, only 7 euro: http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/2200mAh-HI-BATTERY-FOR-iRiver-H110-H120-H140-H320-H340_W0QQitemZ260193690833QQihZ016QQcategoryZ86541QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem
13:25:15rasherah, I guess I just got bad results
13:25:34peturthey have an ebay store: http://stores.benl.ebay.be/BATTERY-COLLECTION
13:25:51peturwrong link
13:27:25peturnevermind, the store doesn't exist :(
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13:39:17LinusNpetur: well, the batteries are certainly cheap, but the shipping isn't
13:39:45peturindeed...if only brando would sell them :/
13:40:46peturLinusN: btw, I got that cf adapter yesterday, need to find a CF card big enough to put in my h320 :)
13:40:56LinusN:-)
13:42:15ZagorLinusN: someone claimed you wanted to keep the "disable charging from usb" option? is that so, and if so, why?
13:42:37jharuhmmm.... alll links say na on bin and s...
13:42:47rasherWould anyone object to replacing "european/japanese/american" with "dd-mm-yyyy/yyyy-mm-dd/mm-dd-yyyy" in the clock plugin?
13:42:49 Quit pondlife ("Read error: 110 (Connection slimed out)")
13:43:12peturnot at all
13:43:12rasherI had no idea what "Japanese" date format was, but it turns out it's the one I wanted
13:43:23peturhehe
13:43:30Zagorrasher: yeah, "european" is definitely not the one used in sweden
13:44:10jharuthe devel on the links looks empty.. it says cskip
13:44:59thegeekeuropean is the one used here in norway
13:45:02thegeekand imho the best one;P
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13:46:04rasherThe only reasonable one is "Japanese" (otherwise known as ISO-8601)
13:46:39LinusNZagor: you mean the "hold-a-button-to-invert-the-action"?
13:46:39*petur agrees with rasher
13:47:49ZagorLinusN: no, the "Charge During USB Connection" setting in the battery submenu
13:47:57thegeekyou're all insane
13:48:04thegeekyear first?
13:48:09thegeekpah!
13:48:10LinusNZagor: i didn't know there was one
13:48:14jharuits a preference rthing geek
13:48:30thegeekofcourse;)
13:48:41thegeekas long as we can all agree the american way is stupid;P
13:48:50jharuand its most widely used year first
13:48:59rasherthegeek: a) narrows things down nicely, so you can read as much as you want to b) lexigraphic sort is the same as sorting by date
13:49:02n1sZagor: afaiu it's needed to be able to connect to ports that don't provide full 500mA current
13:49:17Zagorn1s: ??
13:49:20jharuamerican isnt stupid at all...
13:49:37thegeekrasher: I see your point, but I still prefer day first, I usually use dates in the current year
13:49:41LinusNZagor, n1s: ah, now i remember
13:49:52n1sZagor: if you try to draw 500 mA from a lower current port, will the host not disable the port?
13:50:10LinusNthe problem is that we still don't know how to find out what type of port we are connected to
13:50:19*rasher attempts to divert future data-format talk to #rockbox-community
13:50:39LinusN(on the h300)
13:51:06ZagorLinusN: the h300 usb chip asks for too little current?
13:51:42jharuneed help on cygwin... all mirrors skip devel somehow.
13:52:06LinusNafaik, it asks and it gets 100 or 500, but we should only turn on the charger if we have 500mA
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13:52:27bgohu.
13:52:38pixelmaLinusN: I just wanted to know what it is needed for ... so it is actually an H300 thing? If so why is it there in some other targets too?
13:52:40peturI thought it was a setting in the OF
13:52:50LinusNpixelma: i dunno
13:52:59LinusNpetur: the OF has that setting too
13:53:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:54:15ZagorLinusN: when does it ask for 500 and when for 100?
13:54:16LinusNafaik, the OF setting controls if it should charge or connect
13:54:33LinusNZagor: afaik, it asks for 500
13:54:49peturit always connects, just doesn't charge (I think) so maybe there is no way to tell?
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13:55:21LinusNi guess i have some more reverse engineering to do...
13:55:33pixelmaI think I should leave it out of the manual for now (if even the main Roclbox head can't tell me the whole truth...) ;)
13:55:55pixelma*heads (more than one)
13:56:42LinusNthe setting controls if the batteries should be charged from USB or not
13:57:09LinusNwhich is a bad idea if you have an unpowered hub, or an old laptop
13:57:49pixelmaand what's Roclbox... :D
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13:57:56LinusNsince, i believe, it draws 500mA regardless
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14:02:52pixelmabut is it really only working correctly on H300? As stated earlier (if I can trust the sim), it's also there on Gigabeat, FM-Recorder/RecorderV2, H10 too, Ipod Video (maybe on others as well but e.g. not on the Minis)
14:03:26LinusNhow interesting
14:07:26jharugot it rto work now...
14:08:07amiconnDrawing 100mA from USB is always allowed afaik
14:08:23amiconnOnly if the device wants more it has to ask first
14:10:55LinusNthat's correct
14:11:06jharuisnt it standard that usb prvides 5v?
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14:13:07jharuso you mean using fw you can lower the usb output?
14:14:26LinusNjharu: we're talking current, not voltage
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14:20:33*rasher does the 10 fully translated languages (including English) dance
14:20:50rasherAnd about 10 more with less than 30 missing strings.
14:21:01markunrasher: we might have an arabic translation soon! :)
14:21:27rasherFancy
14:21:44rasherDoes the menu code support rtl?
14:21:52markunsaab_rider (who hasn't been here for some time) wrote me an email that he has some time again and want to work on it
14:21:56rasherand text drawing, I suppose
14:22:17 Part lodesi
14:22:22markuntextdrawing: yes, but aligning and scrolling is based or LTR
14:22:38rasherFigures.
14:23:03rasherA few of the translations are almost bad enough that I personally think they're worse than useless
14:23:51jharurasher: do that ill soon see a boom of rockbox users here in the middle east. lol
14:24:12jharu(the arab texts)
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14:40:43markunjharu: are you from the middle east?
14:41:31jharukugel|school: any new devt on yer build? yer build made my uncle ask how to put rbx when he buys his own sansa e200!!!
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14:42:22peturjharu: please use proper English here
14:42:31jharumarkun: yeah im in jeddah saudi arabia.
14:44:49jharuthough i originally comwe from the philippines. i work here as a graphic artist/secretary but my field is comsci major in dbase management.
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15:00
15:00:55LinusNspeaking of languages, perhaps we should consider tossing out some of the least maintained translations? Afrikaans, for example, has 628 missing strings.
15:02:01LinusNfor example, ditch all languages with more than 100 missing strings
15:02:37LinusNit's silly to claim that rockbox has so many translations when most of them are in such a sorry state
15:04:53amiconnThe question is where to draw the line
15:04:58LinusNyup
15:05:22amiconnAlso, such a partial translation makes it easier for someone to pick it up again (as opposed to starting from scratch)
15:05:31LinusNof course
15:05:45LinusNmy suggestion is to omit them from the zip files
15:05:59peturgets my vote too
15:06:02LinusNthey can stay in svn if someone wants to work on them
15:06:14Zagorsounds good to me
15:06:48LinusNwe should also appoint official maintainers for the languages we support
15:07:09peturisn't that in the wiki?
15:07:23LinusNwhere=
15:07:24LinusN?
15:07:55peturgood question, what was the name of that page...
15:08:20LinusNi like this page btw: rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/
15:08:24peturhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/KnowledgeMap
15:08:48peturwe could add a topic there
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15:27:52pixelmaspeaking of languages... last week I found that in svenska.lang the "recording settings" as a menu item (LANG_RECORDING_SETTINGS) is also only translated as "inspelning" which makes it very confusing in e.g. the swcodec radio menu if you find 2 items with the same name there. If a swede would like to fix that... :)
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15:29:27LinusNthe swedish translation is not very good imho
15:30:07LinusNi often think about fixing it, and then i go "naaah, some other time"
15:30:18pixelmabut at least I'd like to know whether I'll enter the recording screen or the recording settings
15:32:14LinusNpixelma: fixed
15:32:42n1siirc all the swedish strings for the settings submenus are shortened so that sound settings becomes "ljud" which imho makes some sense but obviously not in this case
15:34:06pixelmatack :)
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15:38:19pixelmahmm... except that the ä in inställningar doesn't match the rest of the file (encoding)
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15:41:51LinusNpixelma: ah, silly me
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15:46:22LinusNone thing about the swedish translation is that it translates the button names (e.g PLAY->SPELA)
15:46:29LinusNi don't like that
15:49:07pixelmaand some translatiosn handles that differently, at least it's not translated in e.g. the german file
15:49:26pixelma*translations handle
15:49:36LinusNi think it should use the names printed on the player itself, for example "Play" on the X5
15:49:52LinusNanything else would be silly
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15:51:03pixelmaor as described in the manual - and should be consistent across languages
15:52:16markunTTS might have a problem with it
15:52:58markunalthough espeak supports multiple languages in the same string (using SSML)
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15:54:44pixelmaisn't there already such an exception list that "teaches" some TTS how to pronounce some words which are not translatable (for example "dithering") and which is also prepared for differnt TTS engines?
15:56:24markunpixelma: do you know if the other TTS programs support SSML?
15:56:43pixelmanot at all
15:57:13LloreanLinusN: The majority of our players just have a symbol on the buttons anyawy.
15:57:26LinusNmaybe so
15:57:54LinusNstill, i can't remember ever seeing a player in sweden with the name "SPELA" on the play button
15:57:54markunpixelma: it works very well. I used it for an english text with some german poems in it :)
15:58:04LloreanThat being said, any case there's a written word, I'd rather the visible string be that literal word, and the spoken string be a translation
15:58:11ZagorI have never heard a swede call it "spela-knappen".
15:58:18LinusNin sweden, we often speak about "play-knappen", and not "spela-knappen"
15:58:29LinusN:-)
15:58:42LloreanWe already have speech that doesn't match visible exactly, I don't see why we can't do that here too
15:58:57petursame for Dutch, really ("play-knop")
15:59:00pixelmacouldn't imagine it translated into german too :)
15:59:01ZagorI don't think the speech should say "spela" either. nobody will understand.
15:59:25LloreanWell, by translation I mean "culturally appropriate phrase" :)
15:59:31Zagor:)
16:00
16:00:18LloreanBut if there's a word printed on the player, and we need to describe it in text, we should always use the literal word I think.
16:00:40LloreanIf they can't translate it in our text, the visible word on the player won't mean anything to them anyway to match with the translation
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16:02:33kugeljott: I made fs#8335 final
16:04:35pixelmamarkun: is the SSML an option in espeak? I'm not sure if it is available to me because I only use a prebuilt binary that you can use as a SAPI voice in windows...
16:05:01pixelmabut it would be interesting for the .talk clips
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16:10:40jottkugel: ah nice.. just took a look at it.. one thing: i think it would be better to use an enum for the different show_album_name options
16:13:01kugeljott: Are you sure? There're only 3 possible values
16:13:03 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
16:15:16jottkugel: it makes the code more readable titletxt_y = ((config.show_album_name == 2 || show_fps) ? track_list_offset : 0); vs. titletxt_y = ((config.show_album_name == album_name_top || show_fps) ? track_list_offset : 0); or so..
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16:16:19markunpixelma: I don't know anything about the SAPI voice. With the command line tool you use -m for a SSML text. It recognizes the following tags: http://espeak.sourceforge.net/ssml.html
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16:26:37pixelmamarkun: thanks for the link, it explains a lot... *starts wondering what she was thinking*
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16:32:53jsheldondoes rockbox support custom volume levels per song?
16:33:09jsheldonI read somewhere that it did, but I can't find anything relevant in the context menu
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16:33:42LinusNit supports replaygain
16:35:40jsheldonLinusN: ah, interesting, thanks very much
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16:38:17yoavkWhere can I find the diffirent file flags?
16:46:37peturfirmware/include/file.h ?
16:47:18yoavkThanks
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17:11:59yoavkDo I need to create a file before opening it for output? (using creat())
17:13:45peturwhat will it help to open a non-existing file for reading?
17:14:00petureuh nevermind me
17:14:09yoavkI asked cause in C it will automaticlly create it
17:14:10*petur checks teapot
17:14:34peturuse the correct flags?
17:15:31peturO_CREAT ?
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17:20:21slavik0329hey
17:20:29slavik0329i dont understand the concept behind patches
17:20:36slavik0329how do you apply a patch?
17:20:53peturthey are changes to the source, you need to compile afterwards
17:21:15peturhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WorkingWithPatches
17:21:35slavik0329thank you!
17:21:49yoavkIs there a way to 'decompile' a plugin?
17:22:08yoavkBTW - just out of curiosity...
17:22:10LloreanWe provide the source code for all our plugins.
17:22:42yoavkLlorean: yes I know, Im just wondering if its possible
17:22:52scorche|wwhy would you want to?
17:23:22yoavkscorche|w: I said - just out of curiosity.
17:24:43LloreanYou can disassemble them.
17:25:09yoavkLlorean: Yes but that will give you the assembly code...
17:25:16yoavkWhatever :)
17:25:40hcsyou can replace each instruction with C code, but that'd be no better
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17:33:03yoavkIn rb->open(), can I combine 2 flags using | as a seperator
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17:34:42peturyes
17:34:51yoavkThanks
17:36:48sindredIs rockbox supported on every generation of the ipod video? I can't find any info about specific generations
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17:37:31yoavkyes
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17:38:02GodEater_sindred: it depends how you define "ipod video"
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17:38:10GodEater_a lot of people seem to think the classic is the video
17:38:12GodEater_which it isn't
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17:38:53sindredwell, I am thinking of the ipod which is able to view video
17:39:01GodEater_that doesn't help me much
17:39:39GodEater_http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61688 <−− which one of those is it ?
17:39:46sindredI am just confused, because the WPS gallery for the video seems to be designated to the 5th gen.
17:40:16GodEater_which is what Apple defined the Video as all the way through it's production
17:40:24sindredI don't have an ipod video, but I am thinking of getting a supported mp3 player with harddisk
17:40:52GodEater_well get either a 5th Gen, or "5.5G" (Apple calls this a late 2006 model)
17:41:05sindredwhat about the 6th gen?
17:41:06GodEater_available in 30GB, 60GB or 80GB sizes
17:41:10GodEater_that is the classic
17:41:14GodEater_and is not supported
17:41:17sindred:(
17:41:26sindredI don't like the glossy finish
17:41:34GodEater_get a cover for it
17:41:55sindredCould, but I don't happen to like covers either:P
17:42:09GodEater_then do without rockbox =/
17:42:17sindredhell no!
17:42:24sindreditunes - never again
17:42:42sindredhave you got any recommendations for any other hdd players?
17:42:47GodEater_Gigabeat every time
17:42:54GodEater_F or X series
17:43:06GodEater_outshines the ipod video in every way except disc space
17:43:32sindredaccording to the chart "buyers guide" the X5 seem to have great power capacity, and the ipod video does not
17:43:44GodEater_"power" capacity ?
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17:43:51*GodEater_ goes to look at the chart
17:44:21GodEater_you mean battery life ?
17:44:24krazykitGodEater_, lots of battery life
17:44:27sindredyes:)
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17:44:52GodEater_20 hours is more than enough for me :)
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17:45:32GodEater_we need to update that chart to say "SOME" for all players now :(
17:45:33sindredI think that would be a great achievement from the ipod nano first gen, THAT'S terrible battery life
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17:46:25GodEater_sindred: that's because all the iPods are completely undocumented
17:46:58sindredis the model MEG-F## and MEG-X## listed in the Buyers Guide the same as the Gigabeat?
17:47:14 Quit petur ("*plop*")
17:47:33toffe82sindred: yes there are the gigabeat F and X
17:47:41sindredI have the nano myself, and I can document that the battery life of the nano isn't exactly great
17:47:48sindredWhat are the differences?
17:48:19sindredpersonally I don't like the ipods from anything else than the design, so I really want to try something else
17:48:21GodEater_sindred: I've never seen an X in the "flesh" but I'm given to understand the screen is slightly larger
17:48:29GodEater_although it remains the same resolution
17:48:36GodEater_other than that - there's not much difference at all
17:48:54markunit's also smaller and lighter
17:49:04GodEater_My Gigabeat F is my weapon of choice out of all my DAPS for day to day listening
17:49:11GodEater_I'd recommend it over any ipod, any day of the week
17:49:29markunno button lights and a ZIF connector for the HDD
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17:50:27sindredso, the gigabeat beats the ipod video when it comes to: battery life, storage capacity, physical properties, price, usability and performance?
17:50:42LloreanThe iPod video wins in Storage Capacity.
17:50:44markunsindred: no, there is no 80GB gigabeat
17:50:57LloreanPhysical properties are debatable.
17:51:03sindredI can live with 60gb
17:51:11LloreanI think the Gigabeat feels more solid, and I like that. Other people prefer the thinness of the iPods.
17:51:35sindredI like the smaller the better, but I already have the nano
17:52:41sindredWhen I am speaking of usability, I am thinking of the layout of the knobs and such things. The ipods has the scrolling wheels which I like, because that makes it easy to scroll the lists
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17:58:09GodEater_well the only other player we support with a wheel is the sansa, and there's no HD version of that
18:00
18:01:12sindredis it convenient to navigate via the the "pluss cross"?
18:01:28GodEater_It's very workable - but obviously isn't as nice as a wheel
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18:03:02LloreanI kinda prefer it
18:03:15LloreanI like to be able to scroll by just placing my finger somewhere, rather than constant movement.
18:03:22GodEater_there is that
18:03:26GodEater_no carpal tunnel :)
18:03:37LloreanDefinitely a matter of preference though
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18:08:01sindredAccording to the test I read they preffered the cross more than any other solution
18:08:16sindredI think I will like the gigabeat
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18:09:20GodEater_where are you located sindred ?
18:11:46sindredNorway
18:12:05sindredwhy wondering?
18:12:56GodEater_wondering if there's a fellow rockboxer near you with a gigabeat you could play with
18:14:29sindredNah, I think I am a lonesome wolf here:P
18:15:05GodEater_rasher.dk/rockbox/people/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/people/
18:15:08GodEater_check on that ;)
18:16:10sindredah, remember that, quite cool
18:16:19GodEater_seems to be quite a few people in Norway
18:16:22GodEater_:)
18:17:31sindredWe aren't that many anyways, but fortunately I live in the capitol, where it seems there are a few rockboxers
18:18:01GodEater_preglow lives there
18:18:03GodEater_one of the devs
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18:18:09GodEater_he might even have a gigabeat if you're lucky
18:18:17krazykithm, someone in antarctica?
18:20:08GodEater_allegedly
18:20:35*GodEater_ wonders how most daps would fare at a lot of degrees <0
18:21:50sindredNow I've added myself to the map
18:28:25kugelHey
18:28:39 Quit yoavk ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
18:28:43kugelsame situation, I've just noticed there's another rockboxer in berlin :)
18:31:07GodEater_only one ?
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18:31:23pixelmaguess not...
18:32:35kugelDon't know. I know there're a few rockbox users
18:32:54kugelBut people who take part in the developement? Not sure
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18:35:55pixelmaI'd recommend to look closer at the map, there's at least one developer on there in Berlin (if you mean Gernany) ;)
18:37:10Genre9mp3hint hint: rasher.dk/rockbox/people/gmap.php?lat=52.537604&lng=13.587899">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/people/gmap.php?lat=52.537604&lng=13.587899
18:39:25sindredthe toshiba gigabeat X60 seems hard to find. Anyone knows any places it might be available for purchase? Tried amazon.com..
18:41:04toffe82sindred: china :) just joking because we found a site which sell it but it doens't seem reliable
18:41:29*markun just noticed there is another rockbox user living in his street! :)
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18:42:21markuntoffe82: it looked like a scam rather than just not reliable :)
18:42:22*scorche|w met one while out the other night
18:42:38sindredThink I better not check it out then
18:42:40*Genre9mp3 met a soldier in Lemnos who had a Rockboxed H120 some months ago
18:42:42scorche|walthough, i think we should have a closer look at everyone claiming to be a developer on that map..
18:43:10toffe82markun: ;)
18:44:00markunscorche|w: I think some of them are developers but just not for rockbox :)
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18:45:10scorche|wmarkun: maybe i will poke rasher one of these days :)
18:46:50kugelif anyone like my patch with scroll_button renaming, I've updated it
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18:50:56kugelwow
18:51:07kugelamiconn is just a few meters away from me
18:51:29sindredknock knock:P
18:51:45kugelthis is so sool
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18:53:14kugelcool* btw
18:53:55*scorche|w mourns amiconn's sanity...
18:54:28yoavkcan i use rb->rename() to move a file?
18:55:48sindredI can't find ANY retailers for the gigabeat X60 at all :'(
18:57:09kugelhow long does it take until I'm on the map?
18:57:12toffe82sindred: it was sold never sold in the us nor europ I think
18:57:49sindredthat explains why the australian cnet comes that far up on the list...
18:58:15sindredhowever, I found a norwegian article about the player, so I won't give up my hope
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19:00
19:13:59toffe82sindred: or wait for the port on the gigabeat S :)
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19:18:07yoavkwhat does ftruncate() do?
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19:22:50yoavkHow can I move a file in a plugin?
19:25:43kugelrename it
19:26:15yoavkkugal: I tried, it dosent work
19:26:27kugelDon't know then
19:26:34ZincAlloydoes anybody here have experience with greyscale wps's? I'm porting cabbie 2.0 to the ipod mini and the greyscales of the backdrop don't display correctly, even though I've used the ones that apparently should work
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19:28:46kugeln1s: Are you there?
19:29:00sindredtoffe82: I would wait if I knew when:) It's hard to have to wait for something you don't know when's arriving.
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19:33:38markunsindred: if you help out with the port you have some control over the waiting period :)
19:34:27xxhotman1hi every1...on question. is it possibe to buy a zif HD and transfer over the system files in order to get my gigabeat working again?
19:34:58xxhotman1(damaged HD from dropping)
19:35:05xxhotman1so i cant read files
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19:35:40yoavkHow do I move a file?
19:35:44xxhotman1i figured you guys would know best since you port
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19:39:10LloreanZincAlloy: Be aware, "Grayscale" means "Black, White, Lite Gray, Dark Gray", it's not a full range of grayscale
19:40:27ZincAlloyright, I'm using black, white, 85/85/85 and 170/170/170
19:40:44LloreanSo, what's the "don't display correctly" issue?
19:41:23ZincAlloyI posted a screenshot on the forum to illustrate the issue
19:41:34yoavkGuys - any ideas about how to move a file?
19:41:48xxhotman1does anyone have system files (vanilla) for gigabeat S30?
19:42:23ZincAlloyyoavk: cut and paste?
19:42:32xxhotman1u could do that
19:42:40xxhotman1just like an external HD
19:42:44LloreanZincAlloy: Where did you get 85 and 170 from?
19:42:54yoavkyes, but how do i do that throu a plugin?
19:42:54toffe82xxhotman1: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatSInfo#Firmware_Recovery
19:43:05xxhotman1thanks
19:43:07ZincAlloyit was mentioned earlier in that thread
19:43:23LloreanSo you haven't tried other values?
19:43:51xxhotman1oh ya i saw that one already
19:43:53LloreanWhile 85 and 170 are appropriately 1/3 and 2/3 of 255, I'm not sure that specifically means they're the numbers that equate to "pure" colors on grayscale
19:43:54ZincAlloyand they're used on the h100 port
19:44:01xxhotman1it would connect for a second then drop
19:44:20pixelmaLlorean: those should work correctly
19:44:27LloreanZincAlloy: Have you tried using them as normal bitmaps, and not a backdrop?
19:44:37Lloreanpixelma: I didn't even know grayscale targets dithered
19:44:41ZincAlloyyes, the normal bitmaps are alright
19:45:25LloreanZincAlloy: Why not just cut it up and use it as normal bitmaps then, as opposed to a full bitmap backdrop, since that's unnecessary anyway?
19:45:46ZincAlloytrue... I'm gonna give it a try
19:45:56pixelmawhere is the forum post?
19:46:05Lloreanpixelma: Last one in the default theme contest thread
19:46:34ZincAlloybut it's still weired. the h100 version is using the same shades on a backdrop without any problems
19:48:17pixelmaLlorean: if it's not a backdrop it might be problematic with the progressbar background - that "could" be drawn above the progressbar if you're unlucky
19:48:48Lloreanpixelma: Ah, true.
19:49:09ZincAlloyoh, yeah, I forgot....
19:49:12ZincAlloygood you remember
19:49:19ZincAlloyI tried to do that before
19:50:00yoavkSo any idea's of how to move a file yet? (Sorry i'm nudging - I kinda need it)
19:50:25Lloreanyoavk: You're asking for c programming help. Honestly, go read a book on C.
19:51:03xxhotman1<toffe82>: you think that will work with new HD(formatted) as my current one is broken
19:51:05LloreanSaying "how do I move a file" without a reference is going to make people think you're talking about within Rockbox since this is #Rockbox.
19:51:14yoavkLlorean: No I'm not - file handling is different in C
19:51:32Lloreanyoavk: Um, are you claiming that Rockbox is not written in C?
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19:52:00Presenceah, damn, and here I thought rockbox was coded in qbasic.
19:52:11Domonokyyoavk: rb->rename should work..
19:52:13yoavkLlorean: No, but I am claiming that the way you handle files is different.
19:52:32Lloreanyoavk: If you know C, look through the available libraries and functions in Rockbox, and come up with a way. Domonoky's rename solution sounds good.
19:52:52scorche|wyoavk: i just typed a few words into google, and i found out how...
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19:55:47yoavkDomonkey: Tried that... dosen't work
19:56:30toffe82xxhotman1: it should work as it is the way to install a new disk
19:57:17xxhotman1cool that is great news
19:57:46xxhotman1so I can just pick up another ziff from a store as long as it fits and get it up and running?
19:58:01toffe82xxhotman1: yes
19:58:07xxhotman1thankyou so much!
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19:58:21xxhotman1you made my day
19:59:31scorche|wyoavk: are you trying to move a file across other volumes?...because i am seeing that that should work too
19:59:35toffe82xxhotman1: this is explain in the service manual of the S but Toshiba never release the tools for it, so we find a way to use the updater of the V series
20:00
20:00:23yoavkscorche|w: I am trying to move a file from /temp dir. to /notes dir.
20:00:39xxhotman1ya I really dislike toshiba after buying this product
20:00:48xxhotman1customer support mind you
20:01:25scorche|wyoavk: how are you calling it?
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20:02:32yoavkscorche|w: I am tring the following: rb->rename("/.rockbox/encdectemp","../notes/s.txt");
20:04:01Learyoavk: Absolute paths only, please. :)
20:04:26kugelYea, try "./rockbox/notes.txt"
20:04:38kugelYea, try "./rockbox/notes/s.txt"*
20:04:46scorche|wkugel: not quite...
20:04:57LearIf you test in the simulator, you should even get a warning about it...
20:05:18kugelscorche|w: What do you mean?
20:05:47scorche|wkugel: the way you are tying it is incorrect as well..
20:05:52scorche|wtyping it
20:06:17kugel"/.rockbox/notes/s.txt" ?
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20:06:32Lloreankugel: That's not what you typed, either time before.
20:06:44*scorche|w heads out to lunch
20:06:45kugelYea, I've made a typo
20:07:25kugelI asked if the last one is correct
20:07:26yoavkLear: Meaning? what to write?
20:08:03Learyoavk: Absolute path = beginning with "/"...
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20:08:32scorche|wyoavk: "../" is a relative path... "/foo/bar/ess.txt","/foo/blah/ess/txt" is absolute
20:08:54*scorche|w heads off for lunch for real this time..
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20:10:04yoavkscorche|w: Thanks, trying it...
20:11:41pixelmaZincAlloy: just did a quick test here myself (made a bmp which has the 3 "colours" except black, with the correct values it shows up as expected
20:11:51pixelmain a Mini sim
20:11:56yoavkThanks guys!!! it works! :)
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20:12:45xxhotman1thanks again toffe82 bye for now
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20:14:23ZincAlloypixelma: that's weired.. I'm using the sim as well
20:14:52ZincAlloyare you using the first or second generation mini sim?
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20:16:49pixelma2nd gen. What bit depth are your bmps?
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20:17:53ZincAlloy4 bit
20:18:30ZincAlloythere's no two bit option in photoshop for some reason..
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20:19:08ze2 bit?
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20:19:23zeguess 4-shade isn't that common
20:19:42ZincAlloyprobably
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20:20:10pixelmaZincAlloy: maybe that's something Photoshop is doing for you, I just used "greyscale" which is 8-bit
20:20:15ZincAlloyweired that it's not an issue with the other images
20:20:22ZincAlloyonly the backdrop is affected
20:20:26ZincAlloysame here
20:20:45ZincAlloyset it to greyscale
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20:21:35ZincAlloysaving as 8 bit now
20:22:52ZincAlloyno difference
20:22:57kugelpondlife: We could discuss here about the renaming of scroll buttons
20:23:07pixelmaok, getting the dithering with Photoshop's greyscale too now. I'm usually working with Photopaint...
20:23:34pondlifekugel: OK
20:23:47pondlifeBetter than Flyspray, but I need to go shortly
20:23:48saratogapixelma: did you send me a wma file to look at during the last couple months?
20:23:49LloreanWell in both 8-bit and 4-bit modes, you have a different number of shades of gray, meaning 85 and 170 might not have an exact parallel, so photoshop tries dithering it for you?
20:23:51LearZincAlloy: Backgrounds are dithered, other bitmaps are not. You need to get the colors exactly right to avoid the dither.
20:24:07ZincAlloyah, I see
20:24:20LloreanOr rather ,photoshop tries picking the "nearest" match instead of exact colors any more
20:24:20pondlifekugel: I just don't see how FWD/BACK is confusing, regarding a dial.
20:24:46Lloreanpondlife: If "fwd" up or down in a list?
20:24:50 Quit Xerion (" ")
20:24:51pondlifeNeither
20:24:55pondlifeIt's forward
20:24:57LloreanBut the wheel navigates lists.
20:25:01ZincAlloyindeed
20:25:02pixelmayes, if I export the file back into Photopaint, the colour picker tells me it's a bit off...
20:25:10kugelIf you look at the bottom of the wheel, FWD is different than if you look at the top
20:25:10LloreanClockwise and Counterclockwise give more explicit names as to what the wheel is doing.
20:25:17pondlifeDepends on the screen orientation, compared to the wheel
20:25:29Lloreanpondlife: But clock and counter are absolute independent of orientation.
20:25:31pondlifeTo me, FWD is always clockwise
20:25:38LloreanThen why not call it clockwise?
20:25:56kugelFor me, FWD doesn't mean anything but moving from left to right on any position
20:25:56pondlifeI don't mind, I just particularly dislike counter
20:26:01LloreanWhy?
20:26:05krazykitanti, then?
20:26:07pondlifekugel: That would be RIGHT
20:26:11kugelNo
20:26:26kugelon *any* position
20:26:32kugelmeaning top as well as bottom
20:26:46pondlifeSorry, I don't understand.
20:26:53pixelmasaratoga: yes, some time ago
20:27:02pondlifeYou mean moving a finger from the top of the wheel round clockwise to the bottom?
20:27:04ZincAlloyso, should I save it as 24 bit rgb and let rockbox do the rest?
20:27:15Lloreanpondlife: I just think that having "FWD/BACK" makes setting list controls in plugins unclear, since you don't know whether "FWD" should be going up or down in a list. Or incrementing or decrementing values.
20:27:20LearZincAlloy: But 85 and 170 should be right... I think...
20:27:33Lloreanpondlife: If you're not fond of "Counter", we should come up with a better name.
20:27:55pixelmaLear: yes, but Photoshop seems a bit stupid...
20:27:58saratogapixelma: what was teh file name?
20:28:02LloreanLear: But if 85 doesn't align with an exact color in 4-bit or 8-bit export, it might pick a "best fit" color that doesn't align with the "pure" color for Rockbox
20:28:05saratogai'm not certain that i looked at it yet
20:28:39LearLlorean: One could hope it is using a palette optimized for the image in question...
20:28:41ZincAlloyLear: yes, that makes sense. now i need to find a way to save it correctly
20:29:04pondlifeWhich target has a while that when turned clockwise would scroll upwards? Sansa?
20:29:13LloreanLear: Hope is a good thing to have. :)
20:29:25pondlifeSounds like a use for invert screen to me....
20:29:40Lloreanpondlife: Clockwise increases volume, but moves downward in a list, and move "Right" in other locations.
20:30:22pondlifeAll of which could be covered by Clockwise or Forward
20:30:30LloreanI think Clockwise is more explicit by far though
20:30:33pondlifeYep
20:30:35kugelAgreed
20:31:08LloreanSince one could (not me) argue that "Forward" can be interpreted as "increase" which is "up", etc.
20:31:10pondlifeDo people elsewhere not use "anti-clockwise"? Is that a UK thing?
20:31:14kugelI can understand that COUNTER isn't desciptive alone
20:31:24Lloreanpondlife: I've heard anti-clockwise everywhere but here in the US, I think
20:31:32kugelI personnally never heard anti-clockwise before
20:31:47pondlifekugel: Where are you based?
20:32:04digitalloI've never heard it either, I'm in the US.
20:32:04pondlife(just out of interest, language interests me.)
20:32:09kugelGermany, my teachers told me counter-clockwise
20:32:28kugelSo what about: CLOCK and ANTICLOCK
20:32:49kugelor COUNTERCLOCK ?
20:32:57pondlife Widdershins is probably universal....
20:33:08kugelHowever counterclock is a bit too long in my taste
20:33:25pondlifeI just think of a timer, or something... a counter and a clock
20:34:12LloreanWe could use "INC" and "DEC" to represent the increasing or decreasing of the value of "wheel position"
20:34:31ZincAlloymy dictionary widget tells me anticlockwise is british, indeed
20:35:06kugelLlorean: I think INC and DEC isn't good
20:35:23pondlifeAgreed, that would confuse in the volume case...
20:35:27kugelINC doesn't tell you if you move up or down in a list
20:35:28digitalloINC and DEC could also mean increment and decrement.....
20:35:40Lloreandigitallo: Same thing as "Increase and Decrease"
20:35:46pondlifeIt does to 6502 programmers...
20:36:32LloreanMy point is that there are "very short" yet still descriptive options. But I think CLOCKWISE and COUNTERCLOCK aren't too hard to type from time to time
20:36:32kugelSo what do you think about CLOCK and ANTICLOCK?
20:36:40Lloreanor even ANTICLOCK
20:36:59pixelmaor just ANTI?
20:37:09LloreanI'll even go for that. :)
20:37:37pondlifeI'm happy with COUNTERCLOCKWISE, but not with COUNTERCLOCK ;)
20:38:00ZincAlloypixelma: going to rgb 24 bit made it much better. but now I'm having black dots on the top edge of the greyed out progress bar o_O
20:38:06LloreanCLOCK and NOT ? :-P
20:38:27pixelmathat's the question? ;)
20:38:58*pondlife learns from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widdershins that it's not just a Discworld thing...
20:39:21pixelmaZincAlloy: use another graphics porgram :P
20:39:51RedbrevaZincAlloy : What about 'Indexed Color' mode with Black, White 85 & 170 as the only four colours - when saved as a 4 bit bitmap evrything is converted to the nearest of those four shades
20:40:58kugelI'd go with CLOCK and ANTICLOCK, if anticlockwise is more common than counter-clockwise
20:42:00pondlifeWhatever, it's just the word COUNTER used in programs I was wary of.
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20:42:33kugelgood point
20:42:51pondlifeCompounded when it's an unfamiliar phrase
20:43:45kugelSo search&replace BUTTON_SCROLL_COUNTER with BUTTON_SCROLL_ANTICLOCK in my patch, and it's ready for commit
20:44:27pondlifeGood for me, besides Rockbox tends to use UK English, right?
20:44:32pondlifecolour etc..
20:44:37*linuxstb still thinks "forward" and "back" are perfectly good descriptions, with the advantage of obvious abbreviations.
20:45:00*pondlife agrees, but it's not a biggie
20:45:05kugelI think forward isn't much descriptive
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20:45:25linuxstbkugel: So you're saying you don't know which direction "forward" would refer to?
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20:45:44kugelYea
20:46:06kugelIf I look at the bottom of the wheel, forward is anticlockwise
20:46:23Lloreanlinuxstb: I think they're good, but not the best possible. "FWD" and "BACK" aren't immediately obvious whether they mean "Up" or "Down" in lists, because you don't know if "SCROLL_FWD" means "The direction you scroll the wheel to move down in the list" or "The direction you scroll the wheel to move up in a list" (since some people may think of up as forward)
20:46:37LloreanI admit it's a weak argument for confusion, but I'd rather not have any at all if possible
20:46:47Slasherinow testing quite complex tagcache statistical data resurrection when moving files or altering metadata :) song ratings etc. should stay now intact
20:46:59kugelI think people have different fixed points
20:47:16linuxstbI just think that they've not caused any problems up to now (afaik), and "clockwise" and "anti/counter-clockwise" is just too long to type...
20:47:17LloreanSlasheri: As long as the artis, album, and title match, the information gets moved?
20:47:57SlasheriLlorean: almost, in fact bitrate and length are always required to match, then either filename hash must fully match or two of these hashes: artist, album or title
20:48:30LloreanSlasheri: Honestly, I'd rather if bitrate *weren't* checked.
20:48:43SlasheriLlorean: hmm, why?
20:48:51LloreanFor example, if I replace a low quality MP3 of something with a fixed MP3 or vorbis encode, I'd rather preserve playcount, etc.
20:49:02LloreanFor example, a radio recording with an actual CD rip of it
20:49:22Slasheriah, that might be true. But the song length (stored in milli-seconds) must remaing intact too
20:49:36LloreanAh, which wouldn't work from radio
20:49:42 Quit Mathiasdm ("I have left the building!")
20:49:49LloreanBut would work if they were both CD rips from the same disk, of varying quality, right?
20:50:19Slasherishould work, unless codec makes some gaps to the audio
20:50:26Slasherihmm, maybe i will drop the bitrate match then
20:51:07saratogaanyone else got WMA problem samples?
20:51:32amiconnkugel, linuxstb: Call it 'positive' and 'negative' (mathematical rotation) ... ;)
20:51:43ZincAlloyaaaah, got it right now. thanks for your help, guys!
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20:53:32joshman729hi
20:53:43LloreanDo we have a list of known codec issues somewhere?
20:53:55LloreanLike, AAC not playing back files over a given size, etc?
20:54:01joshman729just thought i'd come on here since i'm interested in gettin rockbox
20:55:02amiconnhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clockwise
20:55:54joshman729?????????
20:56:03LloreanClearly, BUTTON_SCROLL_POS and _NEG are the answer. :-P
20:56:09saratogai don't think theres a list of codec issues anywhere
20:56:53saratogaideally people would be opening issues on tracker for them, but often its not clear if its a codec issue, a parser issue, an unsupported codec flavor (AAC-HE, WMA-Pro) so a lot of people are unsure about doiong that
20:57:08Lloreansaratoga: Kinda what I was thinking
20:57:21LloreanA list of codecs, and when they can be expected not to perform like they do on your PC>
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20:57:43LloreanSomething that could even be edited into the manual once collected
20:57:47advcomp2019joshman729, what is your question
20:58:06 Quit Xerion (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:58:16russellHi to the list.
20:58:41pondlifesaratoga: There's a WMA file on FlySpray somewhere that segfaults the sim.... I'll hunt
20:58:46russellHi to the list.
20:59:10saratogayeah i got that one
20:59:28advcomp2019russell, you do not need to repeat yourself
20:59:29pondlife#7488, BeyondThePain...
20:59:41saratogai spent a lot of time looking into it earlier and became frustrated so i'm not looking forward to doing it again
20:59:46pondlifelol
20:59:50russellSorry, bit of a mixup on this end. When compiling rockbox, how do I get arm-elf-gcc in my PATH?
20:59:51pondlifeWell, you did ask....
20:59:57saratogasince it decodes correctly in my test driver program but not rockbox
21:00
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21:00:08saratogawhich likely means theres a pointer issue somewhere and it'll be a nightmare to track down
21:01:23 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
21:01:28russellHaven't used irc too much, so help me out. =]
21:01:31 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
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21:01:46 Join Savior [0] (n=ysavior@cpe-65-25-140-203.columbus.res.rr.com)
21:01:49kugelamiconn: Did you know I'm just a few meters away from you?
21:02:30Saviorso I finally got my e200 to work
21:02:39Saviorbut it quit working after it died
21:02:49Saviorand now it's back to the LCD screen not turning on
21:03:15*joshman729 was just wondering if rockbox was good and wanted to ask the users?
21:03:44SaviorI think it's awesome
21:03:50Saviorwhen it works
21:04:02joshman729when it works?
21:04:08advcomp2019joshman729, depends on what you do on what player
21:04:09Saviorfor some reason my Sansa hates me and won't let me do anything
21:04:13kugeljoshman729:
21:04:14kugelhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox
21:04:31joshman729thanks kugel
21:05:34kugelSo, any decision about my renaming patch?
21:05:38joshman729Well I mainly just listen to music.....can you copy music back from the player to the computer?
21:06:43krazykitjoshman729, what player do you have?
21:06:51joshman729Ipod classic 80gb
21:07:02krazykitthen you can't use rockbox, as rockbox is not supported on the Classic
21:07:15joshman729i wanted an mp3 player but nothing compared in price and size to the ipod
21:07:15joshman729i thought i could use the video software?
21:07:37joshman729for the 80gb video?
21:07:46 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:07:49krazykityou don't have an ipod video, you have an ipod classic
21:08:04joshman729I know
21:08:20joshman729but there is no such thing as an ipod video 80gb .......so i just assumed
21:08:29krazykitthere is, actually.
21:08:51amiconnkugel: oh?
21:08:58joshman729really
21:09:02amiconnSeems you're not on rasher's map...
21:09:04joshman729oh well im odviously just a noob
21:09:17kugelamiconn: still not? I put me in a few hours ago
21:09:36kugelamiconn: I'm in the kienbergstraße
21:10:07*joshman729 think the ppl on here are helpful........thanks and goodbye
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21:10:31 Quit joshman729 ()
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21:11:36pixelmakugel: afaik rasher updates the map manually
21:12:25amiconnUmm, that's really not far away... about 1.5km
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21:14:02kugelyea ;)
21:15:14kugelamiconn: are you going to school or are you done with that?
21:15:28amiconnI'm waaay done with that
21:15:33kugelheh
21:15:34*amiconn is 36
21:15:45*kugel is 18
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21:19:22saratoga2hmm can i make myself a developer on that map?
21:21:01amiconnI think you can, if you still have that edit code
21:21:18freqmod_nxCould I get writing premission for FrederikVestre in the wiki in order to add radio frequences for Trondheim, Norway?
21:21:26amiconnIiuc rasher approves changes manually, so they won't show up immediately
21:22:34*Llorean thinks that if the "Presets" browser worked with subfolders (assuming it still doesn't, haven't checked) we could and should go ahead and include presets in SVN
21:24:02freqmod_nxDoes anybody know why my activation code is invalid?
21:24:16freqmod_nxor what i do?
21:24:32LloreanActivation code is invalid?
21:24:49freqmod_nxin the wiki: The activation code FrederikVestre.********** is invalid. .
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21:25:57LloreanLooks like you've been activated for editing now. I don't know about the invalid activation code though
21:25:58linuxstbfreqmod_nx: I've just granted you write permission.
21:26:13linuxstbIs your account already active?
21:26:23freqmod_nxok thx, mayby that's the reason
21:26:58freqmod_nxno, i tried to activate it now, i intented to wait before i pressed enter until the mail had gone trough greylisting.
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21:28:06freqmod_nxit seems like i can edit, maybe you activated me when you gave me write premission
21:28:45linuxstbNo, I think your account was already active.
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21:35:01freqmod_nxHow do i remove the attchment table at the end of FmPresetsEurope?
21:38:29linuxstb`Click on "manage", then tick the "hide file" box, then click on the "Save properties only" button at the bottom of the page.
21:38:34freqmod_nxfound it
21:38:36freqmod_nxfixed
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21:43:41Sammienatorhi, can you edit a bug report?
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21:48:33linuxstbDo you see an "edit this task" button?
21:49:43Sammienatormaybe i'm blind, but I don't see it..
21:49:54LloreanI think normal users cannot edit even their own task
21:50:15Sammienatornope I can't..
21:50:16linuxstbSammienator: That's why I asked - I wasn't implying it was there...
21:50:43linuxstbIs your bug report the PictureFlow TrackListing Bug?
21:50:50Sammienatorbut I found an other solution for my problem..
21:50:58Sammienatorjep
21:51:00Sammienatorit is
21:51:05linuxstbThen just add another comment to the end.
21:51:11Sammienatori did:D
21:51:53linuxstbI can just see the main bug description, then a comment with screenshots.
21:52:59SammienatorI forgot to ad the screenshots...
21:53:32Sammienatorso i did it with a comment with screenshots
21:53:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:54:51webguest79hi! :) do you guy's know hot to attach pictures to my music or songs so that i can view them with the rockbox picture flow?
21:55:24linuxstbHave you read this page? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginPictureFlow
21:57:11webguest79yes. but it didn't really help me. :(
21:57:59webguest79can you please help me. :0
21:58:04webguest79:)
21:59:24LloreanHave you also read the AlbumArt page linked to from it?
22:00
22:00:12webguest79ummm............i'm on it.
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22:08:23sindredIn the directories where you have your music files you have to have a bitmap file in the right size named cover.bmp
22:08:44sindreddepending on what device you are using, the size of the files will have to be adjusted
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22:09:22linuxstbHe/she left...
22:09:53sindredsaw that now:P
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22:22:38kugelWhat's about the rename patch now? Will it be committed (with CLOCK and ANTICLOCK or something) or not?
22:23:03Lloreankugel: Seriously, have patience.
22:23:10LloreanIf it's on the tracker, then it's on the tracker.
22:23:48kugelOk, so it needs further discussion? No problem
22:24:01LloreanThat's not at all what I said.
22:24:43kugelI just don't feel the discussion today ended
22:26:03LloreanThere's hundreds of patches and tasks in the tracker, it takes time to go from "patch" to "commit" even if there's nothing wrong with it, because someone with commit access still needs to decide they're gonna take responsibility for watching it afterward for any negative side effects, etc.
22:26:42jottthe patch touches alot of files, so it might get "problematic" in a short period of time .. i guess hence the "hurry" :)
22:26:57LloreanSo even if a patch is relatively simple, it may not get accepted because no matter how sure you are, it may have side effects, so someone must be read to deal with them before committing. Whenever someone's getting ready to, they'll comment on the names if they decide you need to change them.
22:27:28LloreanBut pestering people to commit it is just going to develop ill will. You really shouldn't ask constantly about it
22:27:53kugelconstantly?
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22:28:19LloreanWell, you seem to have brought it up many times in the last couple days.
22:29:26 Quit merbanan ("Leaving")
22:30:07LloreanOnce a patch is in the tracker, we'll get to it when we have time, generally. Bringing it up daily, or more, doesn't make people have more time to do something about it
22:31:01kugelOk, sorry for my impatience then
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22:32:00LloreanReally, your best bet is a singled post to the -dev mailing list, asking if there's anything about it that would keep it from being committed.
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22:33:44kugelAh ok
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22:51:13SlasheriDB major improvement committed, no more losing of statistics that easy :)
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22:57:37pixelmamajor bin size increase too?
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22:59:14safetydanwow, 1k increase
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22:59:22Slasherithat is possible, but that was one of the last missing important DB features
22:59:49safetydanSlasheri: what about support for sort tags?
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23:00
23:00:27Slasherisafetydan: hmm, i have no idea about that, i wont object at least
23:00:33*scorche|w reminds himself to do some testing of his tagcache ifdef when he gets home
23:01:32 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 3.0b3pre/2007121705]")
23:02:30Slasheriother possible improvements could be better handling of huge databases
23:02:58Slasheribut that would mean more complex indexing / hashlookup routines
23:02:59LloreanMight be nice.
23:03:46 Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection)
23:04:31pixelmabtw. safetydan, reading the logs and you were talking to a Ipod 3rd gen owner - currently some 1st-3rd gen Ipod builds are unstable for unknown reasons (jhMikeS already tried to investigate and amiconn knows about it too)
23:04:54Lloreanamiconn not only knows, but seems particularly frustrated at how unpredictable it is.
23:05:14pixelmaof course
23:07:39 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:07:41DefineByteCan anyone commit FS #8340 for me please? :)
23:08:38Sivart0i have terrible news D=
23:08:41LloreanDefineByte: There are errors in it
23:08:51Sivart0i think my ipod is dead xD
23:09:02DefineBytereally? hmm. Can't imagine what
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23:09:44LloreanDefineByte: Well, it's an actual manual error. Someone used "it's" rather than "its" and so your patch illustrates it.
23:10:07LloreanIs there some reason we're changing all contractions?
23:10:29 Quit OlivierBorowski_ (Remote closed the connection)
23:10:34DefineByteThey don't belong in technical documentation
23:10:50 Quit toffe82 ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
23:11:07DefineByteOf coure, if people want them I can go along with that. :)
23:11:19LloreanIt's not exactly a technical document though
23:11:33DefineBytea manual isn't a technical document?
23:11:34LloreanIt's semi-technical, but I think, at least in some sentences, keeping a more casual tone might make it less imposing.
23:11:39DefineBytewhat is it then?
23:11:43LloreanI'd have to go by a case by case basis though.
23:11:57safetydanpixelma: ah yeah, I forgot about that
23:12:01LloreanSome of the sentences just felt a little awkward when I was skimming the patch, is all
23:12:13DefineByteoh yeah, they do
23:12:34LloreanI think it's a good idea, but I think as a global thing it might be too much. :)
23:12:40DefineBytethey're part of my rewrite patch but I was told to split it up
23:13:00DefineByteso I thought I'd do the simple things first
23:13:04DefineBytethen tidy up
23:13:27LloreanGotcha.
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23:13:51LloreanWell, I think I'd like to wait for other people to weigh in. It doesn't "feel" right to me, so I won't be the one to commit it. Won't stand in the way though if others generally agree.
23:14:02LloreanActually, I can't commit from this computer at the moment. No dev tools. :) Heh.
23:14:04pixelmaLlorean: we didn't have a native speaker working on it for a long time (except button tables maybe)
23:14:51LloreanI just don't feel manuals should be treated as a strictly technical document. A completely technical tone makes it more imposing for the people who already have the most problem with it.
23:15:00DefineBytethe only 'it's I can find is "Because it's open collector"
23:15:09DefineByteI had no idea what that meant though
23:15:24LloreanDefineByte: I dunno, I think that's a bad its. Maybe not.
23:15:59DefineByteI looked up 'open collector' on t'net and it seemed right
23:16:11LloreanOkay then
23:16:14 Quit Sivart0 ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
23:16:27*Llorean goes back into hiding
23:16:30ZincAlloyhey, I still haven't heard a satisfying explanation why using another wps's images in a wps only works on the simulator. do you guys have a good explanation for this? I'd like to add unifont versions to the potential default themes without adding another folder with the same images.
23:16:30DefineByteI'm only about 60% on that though. x)
23:17:45DefineByteLlorean: This is what I based it on: http://www.acroname.com/robotics/info/concepts/opn_clct.html
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23:20:02DefineByteOh, and I don't think I've ever seen a manual that uses "it's" etc. so it seems to be the way things are done (right or wrong).
23:20:22DefineByteanyone else have an opinion on this?
23:20:30LloreanI was thinking more things like "haven't" vs "have not" for the tone related ones.
23:21:03DefineByteI may be wrong but I've never seen those used either.
23:21:15DefineByteI did make an exception for the Wormlet plugin though
23:21:22LloreanWell, I'm not really talking about right/wrong here. Just what kind of tone sounds good to me personally
23:21:25DefineByteas the wording was trying to be quite light
23:22:37ZincAlloyI'm not a native speaker, but "haven't" definietely isn't "manual tone" ;)
23:22:45 Quit digitallo (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it")
23:23:41DefineByteI guess the question is: would using phrases like "have not" instead of "haven't" put anyone off?
23:24:09DefineByteYou'd know better than me Llorean.
23:24:27DefineByteDealing more with the support side as you do.
23:25:01LloreanI really don't know. I *think* that it would be more comfortable for people if the manual tried to have a casual tone where possible.
23:25:04ZincAlloymaybe it doesn't turn people off, but it doesn't look professional for sure
23:25:35LloreanZincAlloy: I think using "have not" instead of "haven't" looks more professional
23:25:46LloreanContractions, generally speaking, aren't a very professional thing in a technical document
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23:26:09DefineBytei think that's what zinc meant. they just got it backwards
23:26:22ZincAlloythat's what I think as well, yes
23:26:27 Quit Frazz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:26:49LloreanBut I think that most of the people going to our manual aren't looking for a professional tone, they're looking for "help"
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23:27:28DefineBytethat page I posted maybe isn't the best example of technical documentation. It seems to use "open-collector" and "open collector" x)
23:28:03LloreanI think "conversational" is a better tone than "technical" or "professional" for our manual. But, again, personal opinion.
23:28:27DefineByteDo people find professionally produced manuals generally off-putting? I don't have an answer to that.
23:28:37ZincAlloyright, help is not a matter of tone. A helpful manual would "think" like its potential user. that's not easy to write
23:29:01LloreanZincAlloy: But the comfort of the reader is important
23:29:20LloreanYou can write the same instructions, but by way of word choice, make it seem much more or much less imposing.
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23:29:54LloreanA lack of contractions makes a document feel technical. Technical makes it feel "over your head" for nervous users, even if the content isn't *that* technical, I think.
23:30:06ZincAlloysure, but I think comfort should be achieved by using short and easy to understand sentences
23:30:11LloreanBecause many of our users feel they're non-technical people who just heard about something cool
23:30:33DefineByteI think people will be put off more by things like "bootloader"
23:30:38LloreanZincAlloy: That doesn't mean that contractions wouldn't help generate a non-technical, or comfortable, tone.
23:31:06LloreanI'm not saying other things wouldn't help it more. I just think that contractions help make things a little more comfortable, is all.
23:31:18linuxstbZincAlloy: Regarding your wps question - I'm guessing you're using filenames such as "../somewhere/something.bmp" ?
23:31:29SoapIMHO the best thing you can do for the people put off by "bootloader" is write a "Rockbox for Dummies" abridged manual.
23:31:29DefineByteThe whole start of the installation section is taken up by the inner workings of the boot sequence which I think is a mistake.
23:31:49LloreanDefineByte: That is bad, yes.
23:31:54DefineByteI think the standard manual should be that
23:31:55ZincAlloytrue, but I think contractions are for spoken language rather than for written
23:32:11ZincAlloylinuxstb: yes, that's right
23:32:14linuxstbIMO we should explain to users what they are doing to their DAP...
23:32:23LloreanWe should explain to users what they're doing.
23:32:49DefineByteDo you get this in the Ubuntu manual?
23:32:53LloreanBut we could summarize it briefly, and say "For more information, see blah, after the installation instructions"
23:33:14Soapthere is enough confusion as is about what role Rockbox is playing on their hardware, and what role (in the case of PP owners) the original firmware is playing. I think the distinctions made in the manual are important.
23:34:05 Join advcomp2019_ [0] (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
23:34:14LloreanFor the iPod, for example, we could say "The bootloader is a small program that we install, on the disk of the iPod, that has it load our software, or load the original software. We squeeze it in before the original software at the beginning of a hidden part of the disk."
23:34:19 Quit advcomp2019 (Nick collision from services.)
23:34:21DefineBytetrue, for PP users it might be more important
23:34:25 Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
23:34:34linuxstbZincAlloy: Then I would say the problem is that your operating system's "open" function can deal with relative paths, but Rockbox's version (which is used on target) doesn't. Try using absolute paths - i.e. /.rockbox/wps/somewhere/something.bmp
23:35:00ZincAlloytried those as well. won't work either
23:35:22BagderI think the wps image loader is made to load images for the specific wps
23:35:38linuxstbThat's true - it will prepend the wps directory name...
23:35:55pixelmalinuxstb: if I understood correctly he wants to use the same image folder with 2 different wps files
23:36:53ZincAlloyexactly
23:37:13linuxstbIt would be nice, but would require adding that feature to Rockbox somehow...
23:37:24pixelmalike it was uniCatcher/iCatcher which use the same bmps but needs everything doubled
23:38:48MethoS-i would like to update the gentoo version for rbutil-9999.ebuild, but I want to delete the old one first, but I don't have permission to delete attachments. could I get he rights to do so, or could anybody delete it for me, please?
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23:40:34BagderMethoS-: can't you just create a new with a different name?
23:41:16MethoS-i could do so, but the old one is useless anyway
23:41:35MethoS-too much has changed, it simply doesn't work at all anymore
23:41:35linuxstbWhat does the "9999" mean in the filename?
23:42:30BagderI realize it doesn't work, I just think saving it for future reference could be handy
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23:42:53MethoS-the number behind the name is commonly used for the version. 9999 shows, that it will use the svn-repository, and so is always the newest version available
23:43:00BagderI can of course rename it
23:43:24leftrightSlasheri; Hi, have you seen bug 8283
23:43:30linuxstbI don't think we need qt in the name anymore though.
23:43:50MethoS-linuxstb: indeed
23:44:06MethoS-its name is rbutil-9999.ebuild now
23:44:23Bagderthen I won't need to remove the existing
23:45:20MethoS-it is not needed, but it should be done, because the old rbutilqt-9999.ebuild is useless
23:49:14Bagderit has many times proven valuable to keep older files even when they're not actually being used anymore
23:49:28Bagderthus I hesitate to remove files "just because"
23:51:58 Part leftright
23:52:02DefineByteIs RBUtil going to get an auto-updater or similar?
23:52:53MethoS-if you have gentoo, this is the updater ;)
23:53:26LloreanDo we want people checking RBUtil out from SVN regularly?
23:53:50LloreanI know we've broken features of it a few times for decent periods.
23:54:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:54:17MethoS-here are some reasons for removing rbutilqt-9999.ebuild : 1) rbutilqt is not rbutilqt anymore, 2) rbutilqt-9999.ebuild won't ever work again, 3) rbutilqt-9999.ebuild says it installed successful, even if it didn't and finally 4) I know what I am doing :)))
23:54:41linuxstbLlorean: I would say we don't...
23:54:58LloreanMethoS-: That just means there shouldn't be a link to it.
23:55:00BagderMethoS-: so hide it from the page, none of those are reasons to remove it
23:55:11MethoS-okok^^
23:56:03Lloreanlinuxstb: That's kinda how I feel. It's not as dangerous as SVN bootloader builds, but I'd rather offer a known good version as what people should use, than have them checking out and compiling their own installer that might have broken autodetection, or "autodetect" their main drive due to a typo, or who knows what else.
23:56:16linuxstbMethoS: What about Llorean's point - that SVN rbutil is often broken?
23:56:18LloreanIt just seems "safer" even if the only hypotheticals are rather ridiculous.
23:56:34DefineByteI haven't looked but does RBUtil really have a 'download all themes' button?
23:56:44DefineByteseems strange
23:57:17 Quit Genre9mp3 (Nick collision from services.)
23:57:19 Join Genre9mp4 [0] (n=yngwiejo@rockbox/contributor/Genre9mp3)
23:57:49MethoS-hmm...
23:58:08 Nick Genre9mp4 is now known as Genre9mp3 (n=yngwiejo@rockbox/contributor/Genre9mp3)

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