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#rockbox log for 2007-12-28

00:02:46 Quit davina ("xchat on Ubuntu 7.04")
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00:06:03 Join Oblib [0] (n=jda@111-231-8-204.erd.cust.wirelessbeehive.com)
00:07:42OblibAny experts on the SPC codec around? It seems to me that the volume for this codec is too low, and I am trying to figure out how to universally bump it up a bit. As it is, I have to turn up the volume when an SPC song comes on, and then get my ears blasted out when another codec plays the next song
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00:16:18Mouser_XOblib: HCS actually removed some false volume settings from the SPC codec around the time it was first commited.
00:16:33Mouser_X(HCS is the one who ported it.)
00:17:07Oblib"false volume settings"?
00:17:31Mouser_XThe codec was apparently interpreting the volume incorrectly.
00:17:54 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:17:59Mouser_XThey got quieter, but they're actually being played at the volume they're supposed to be (at least, this is how I understood it).
00:18:23OblibAnd that makes sense to an extent, if the spc is actually a background soundtrack on a game.
00:18:46OblibBut for a dedicated music player, it would be nice to match the volume of everything else
00:19:01Mouser_XI've learned to live with it...
00:19:22scorche`you could use replaygain on other codecs to turn them down, i suppose
00:19:23Mouser_XI tend to notice that ADX and NSF are sometimes quiet as well.
00:19:33OblibAny idea when HCS might be around?
00:19:45amiconnWell, SPC is multi-channel, right?
00:19:48Mouser_XHe's in the channel right now.
00:20:17Oblibscorche`: I suppose... All my other tracks are actually normalized because I only listen to my ipod in the car. I suppose I could re-encode them to be quieter...
00:20:37Mouser_X(In regards to ADX and NSF, HCS ported those as well)
00:20:38OblibMouser_X: it's SPC to NSF that hurts my ears typically
00:21:03Mouser_XInteresting. I know I've encountered some quiet NSFs.
00:21:06Oblibbut yeah, there are some quiter ones
00:21:22Oblibquiter ones are ones that give up easily, BTW
00:21:35Obliband can't spell correctly, either
00:21:50Mouser_XHeh.
00:22:01amiconnMulti-channel codecs have a fundamental problem. The volume of each channel has to be quite low, in order to not produce overflows in the (rare) case of all channels playing at maximum volume. So in the average case volume will be lower than for a plain stereo codec
00:22:39amiconnThere is (almost) nothing that can be done about this
00:22:43OblibHas anyone ever thought of doing a normalization on the fly? Something that would work across codecs?
00:22:55linuxstbYou mean like replaygain?
00:23:02OblibNo, that's once per track
00:23:11 Join eigma [0] (n=cat@216.48.162.210)
00:23:24OblibI mean, if a track gets quiet in one part, it bumps the volume up until it gets louder again
00:23:28LloreanOblib: Well, you can't really normalize without decoding the whole track anyway to either find the peak, or calculate a value
00:23:41Oblibhence "on the fly"
00:23:45LloreanIf you're making lows higher and highs lower or something, you're talking about compression.
00:23:49Oblibyeah
00:23:56Oblibvolume compression
00:26:03OblibRockbox does not do that right now, right?
00:26:30amiconnNot on swcodec targets, no
00:27:48Oblibtoo much overhead?
00:28:14amiconnI'm not sure how much it would take... and I wouldn't use it anyway
00:28:34*amiconn doesn't use replaygain either
00:28:46OblibYou must not listen to music in the car, have a tolerance for very loud parts, or have a really quiet car.
00:29:00 Quit Soap (Remote closed the connection)
00:29:28*Mouser_X doesn't use ReplayGain as well.
00:29:36OblibIn any case, does anyone know where I could universally bump up the volume for SPC? I think 2x would be fine, though it could distort at times, which is fine by me.
00:29:39Mouser_XI do use the volume button though.
00:30:16Mouser_XOblib: You'd most likely have to modify the source code, and compile your own build.
00:30:41Oblibthat's no problem, I've already got some home made patches I'm using.
00:30:42Mouser_XI don't know where in the source you would do this though.
00:31:17denesjust a theoretical question: would 76 kbytes of ram be enough for a rockbox port?
00:31:38scorche`what device has that?
00:31:40Llorean76?
00:31:46OblibMy NSF one is my favorite (FS 8078)
00:31:53Zagordenes: with severe stripping, yes
00:31:54denesperception digital / mymusixx pd-205
00:32:29Bagder76 K is tiny
00:32:40linuxstbdenes: Does it have a hardware mp3 decoder?
00:32:57*amiconn does listen to music in the car, yet had no problems with varying volume there nor anywhere else
00:33:20deneslinuxstb: no, it's a calmrisc16 core + calmmac24 dsp , with 76 kbytes of ram and 256kbytes of flash
00:33:33Bagdercalmrisc16!
00:33:36*Bagder runs
00:33:40deneshere is where I am at so far : http://web.interware.hu/rudas/dbalatoni/pd205.html
00:33:59*linuxstb suggests denes just spends $50 and buys a Sansa...
00:34:02amiconnThat said, I don't use the SPC codec or other exotic codecs
00:34:05Mouser_XOblib: That one is a patch I've strongly considered using myself.
00:34:06denesthe hardware stuff has been reverseengineered from the firmware
00:34:09*Llorean bough a sansa for $16
00:34:19LloreanI second linuxstb's suggestion
00:34:19 Quit Oblib (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:34:29deneslinuxstb Llorean :)
00:34:29Mouser_XI 3rd it.
00:34:34Bagderdenes: calmrisc is seriously painful and almost a showstopper
00:34:35 Join Soap [50] (n=Soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
00:34:51denesBagder: apart from it being 16 bit, what's the problem with it?
00:34:57Bagderto start with, there's no fine working gcc port
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00:35:06Zagordenes: the question everyone wants to know is: what does this player have that makes it worth spending months of hard work on it?
00:35:36denesBagder: the redhat gcc has worked well for me
00:35:39amiconnZagor: The same question could be asked about most rockbox targets...
00:35:49Bagderthe redhat gcc?
00:36:12denesBagder: yes, the calmrisc toolchain from redhat
00:36:30Bagderok, then I stand corrected...
00:36:31denesBagder: from 2001
00:36:37Bagderhm
00:36:39Bagderthat's strange
00:36:47Bagderwe had calmrisc stuff going on after that
00:36:48amiconndenes: The most prominent problems are: * No support in gcc mainline. * Harvard architecture. * Little or no code ram
00:36:54Bagderwith no decent calmrisc support
00:37:14denesBagder: yes, I know about the archos gmini
00:37:15Bagderout previous calmrisc guy even did the gcc port work
00:37:19Bagderour
00:37:19linuxstbdenes: What version of gcc is it?
00:37:26deneslinuxstb: 2.97 it is called
00:37:28amiconnThe latter both rules out plugins and the loadable codec architecture
00:37:58denesamiconn: well plugins are not very feasible with 76kbytes of sram
00:38:25amiconnYes exactly. And most codecs also need more than that
00:38:40Bagdernot to mention the porting work the codecs will require
00:38:51Bagderfor 16bit and calmrisc opts
00:39:07denesanyhow there is no mp3 decoder written for it yet (which is not exactly trivial with that calmMac dsp, which doesn't have any compiler support afaik), so there are still hurdles left :)
00:39:25amiconnThe codecs (and a few selected plugins) could be put in flash, but that still leaves the problem of ram for data
00:40:09denesamiconn: well it can be done, the original firmware does it too (not loading much in the ram at once) - I don't know how rockbox does it
00:40:49amiconndenes: Rockbox uses libmad for mp1/2/3, with some processor specific optimisations in assembler
00:41:27denesamiconn: yes, that I know - and of course libmad can't be used on my architecture without MAJOR rework
00:41:56 Join jda [0] (n=jda@111-231-8-204.erd.cust.wirelessbeehive.com)
00:42:13amiconnIn spite of some work moths ago getting stuff 16 bit compatible (for the now-dead gmini 1xx port), I think there are still many 16 bit pitfalls in the main rockbox code, let alone codecs
00:42:48denesamiconn: yes, but I think the main concern - ultimately a showstopper probably - is the 76 kb ram, no?
00:43:11Bagderthat's ram for code?
00:43:11Zagoramiconn: yeah, and that question is part of the reason we don't have any ports for these types of noname "chinese" players
00:43:17denesBagder: no, that's all the ram
00:43:27denesBagder: code runs from flash
00:43:35Bagderah, right
00:44:05jdaMouser_X: (re: NSF patch) yeah, it makes listening to NSF files tolerable rather than tedious
00:44:05 Join hellogoodbye [0] (n=chatzill@c-69-138-211-94.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
00:44:13Bagderit'd require a seriously stripped/modified rockbox
00:44:19jdaooops, I'm supposed to be Oblib
00:44:58denesBagder: so probably no rockbox on this architecture (but as I said, I am very far even from a working mp3 decoder)
00:45:03 Quit jda (Client Quit)
00:45:25hellogoodbyequick question, ive already asked but i didnt really get an answer i understood
00:45:43hellogoodbyemy ipod video is not entering disk mode automatically upon plugging it in
00:45:47Bagderdenes: I think you're probably better off getting parts of the rockbox code and putting together a separate "miniature" rockbox version
00:45:56hellogoodbyeandy way to fix this, or do i have to do it manually forever?
00:46:08Zagorhellogoodbye: which operating system are you using?
00:46:11hellogoodbyexp
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00:46:33hellogoodbyemy nano is entering disk mode fine
00:46:34denesBagder: actually I was thinking that I would only rip the filesystem reading stuff from rockbox - everything else would need so much work, that a rewrite is easier
00:46:48Zagorhellogoodbye: and you're not getting the "new device connected" notice from windows either?
00:46:51Bagderdenes: seems reasonable, yes
00:47:03hellogoodbyei go tit once, didnt know what to do so i ignored it
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00:47:21ddaltonBagder: Still here?
00:47:31Oblibhcs, are you here?
00:47:35Bagderddalton: yes, just a few mins more
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00:48:20Zagorhellogoodbye: a wild guess. try looking at your hardware list in "my computer". perhaps the "rockbox media device" is marked as disabled?
00:48:30hellogoodbyeok hold on
00:49:36Zagor"rockbox media player" even
00:49:42ddaltonBagder: ok. AI also found a phone number. Perhaps if I don't get a reply from the tech email address about the recovery mode. I could ring them. It would atleast force them to say something. Maybe not the answer we're after though.
00:49:50Mouser_XOblib: I tend to listen to NSFe files anyway. If I want to listen to NSFs, I always expect to be in it for the long-haul. Usually, this isn't a bad thing. SIDs, on the other hand, could use a lot of improvement in this area.
00:50:10OblibSIDs?
00:50:12Bagderddalton: sure, it's worth a shot
00:50:38 Quit stripwax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:50:40ddaltonok I'll try the aust email first then I'll call them then I'll try some other email addresses...
00:50:45hellogoodbyezagor: its listed under other devices, with a big yellow question mark
00:50:48Mouser_XThey have multiple songs in each file, and they don't havea preset time limit. As such, if you want to listen to the next song, you have to "seek" to the next track. This is a serious pain to do, when you're trying to just listen through them.
00:50:58Mouser_XSID = Commedore64
00:51:27Bagderlook for sids by Skyline ;-)
00:51:28Zagorhellogoodbye: try removing the entry, and next time you get the driver popup select "cancel"
00:51:35hellogoodbyeok will try now
00:51:48 Part JThundley ("The silence is deafening.")
00:52:02OblibMouser_X, yeah, that's how NSFs were the first time I tried listening to one in Winamp
00:53:41Mouser_XOblib: As much as I'd love to continue the conversation, it looks like it's veering into the off-topic area.
00:54:10hellogoodbyezagor it pops up in the notification area that the hardware did not install properly, rockbox reappears under other devices, still not entering disk mode automatically
00:54:45Mouser_XYou can join #rockbox-community, as that might be a more appropriate place.
00:55:04scorche`hellogoodbye: entering disk mode has nothing to do with the computer
00:55:29hellogoodbyenvm zagor its working
00:55:33hellogoodbyethanks for all your help
00:55:38hellogoodbyejust went into disk mode
00:55:49Zagorhellogoodbye: so it does reboot?
00:55:52 Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection)
00:55:52hellogoodbyeyes
00:56:11Zagorexcellent. did it always, or did this last thing make a difference?
00:56:34hellogoodbyethe last thing made the difference, what you said with the hardware viewer
00:56:41hellogoodbyedevice manager
00:56:43Zagorok. that's good to know.
00:56:54hellogoodbyeyup, thanks again for the help
00:57:00Zagoryou're welcome
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01:00
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01:14:33ddaltonhow do we display text on the screen in rockbox? For a second quick screen idea I have?
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01:47:02OblibOkay, I found it if anyone cares. In apps/codecs/spc/spc_dsp.c there are variables global_vol_0 and global_vol_1 on lines 370 and 371. If I multiply these by 10 I get pretty good levels. I have no idea if SPC's distort now, but it sounds good to me!
01:47:17OblibI'll do a patch so others can use it if they want
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01:48:59jhMikeSLlorean: Answer: (for the logs I guess) Yes, the work fixes the missing packet start code whining.
01:52:11OblibPatch 8381 is created to bump SPC volume up!
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02:00
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02:01:26jhMikeSOblib: That won't work. SPCs can be full volume. I have some so loud that they clip whereas most are quiet. Such artificial gain was taken out of the codec for that reason.
02:03:50 Nick midkay_ is now known as midkay (n=midkay@63-231-38-118.tukw.qwest.net)
02:04:50Mouser_XjhMikeS: I mentioned something like that, and amiconn said a little more. Oblib wants it nonetheless.
02:05:44jhMikeSI won't commit it to SVN though.
02:05:50linuxstbWhy would some SPCs be mastered with such a low volume?
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02:06:26Mouser_XSPCs are more like a tracker format, like MOD, or maybe even comparible to MIDI.
02:06:49jhMikeSbackground music?
02:08:07Mouser_Xamiconn said that they're multi-channel (which they are) and therefore you have to have all the channels low, in the rare instance that all the channels play at full volume simultaneously.
02:08:23Mouser_X(Or something like that.)
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02:08:37jhMikeSit will simply clip in that case.
02:09:05scorche<amiconn> Multi-channel codecs have a fundamental problem. The volume of each channel has to be quite low, in order to not produce overflows in the (rare) case of all channels playing at maximum volume. So in the average case volume will be lower than for a plain stereo codec
02:09:11Mouser_XIndeed, but I think the low volume overall is to avoid clipping, in the instance that that might happen.
02:09:16OblibjhMikeS, as Mouser_X said, I realize that it could clip in some cases, but the SPCs I have are universally quiet. I can't hear them in the car if they come on.
02:09:31OblibThe patch is just for those who want it. I don't think it belongs in SVN either
02:10:55OblibMy ideal solution would be to implement something like vlevel (http://sourceforge.net/projects/vlevel/) to be applied across all codecs
02:11:33jhMikeSSPC does have a gain field I believe but the codec doesn't use it. I don't know if anyone pays attention to it.
02:11:44OblibI don't think I've got the chops for it though, and vlevel through foobar handles all of my normal music, and NSF and SPC files are pretty constant if they're at the right volume to begin with
02:13:22jhMikeSpreglow said he was going to do that sort of thing
02:14:02OblibI hope he does
02:14:41linuxstbOblib: Any idea how big the lookahead buffer is that vlevel uses?
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02:16:21jhMikeSlinuxstb: appears to be up to the class user to set
02:16:40linuxstbThe README says "a few seconds"...
02:16:41OblibNope, I don't know any of the details of implementation. I believe jhMikeS is right
02:16:57OblibThe foobar plugin allows you to choose how long to consider
02:19:17OblibThe options for the plugin are "strength" (0 to 1.00), "max. multiplier" (0 to 40), and "buffer length" (0.1 to 5.0 seconds).
02:20:09OblibI do 0.8 strength, 25 max mult, and 2.0 seconds for my car encodes. That's a pretty hard compression and would be annoying in a normal listening environment
02:20:31OblibThe longer the buffer, the less harsh and noticeable.
02:21:51OblibDinner calls. I'll keep my eye out for any progress in this area.
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02:25:08jhMikeSmpegplayer plays m2v and mpv now too. should I add them to the associations too?
02:25:59linuxstbYou mean raw elementary streams?
02:27:00jhMikeSyes
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02:28:20jhMikeSthough I'm not sure how to handle seeking units since there's no timestamps and getting times requires scanning the whole file. right now seeking gets disabled for it but they play.
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02:31:27linuxstbI guess it doesn't hurt to add the associations - if mpegplayer supports them, we may as well let users use them...
02:33:34jhMikeSIt only requires a video stream (either in a PES layer or not). I think it would be silly to have it play audio files. :) It's not meant to be 'rockbox as plugin'.
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02:34:35ddaltonis sandisk support the address I want for asking about disk mode? I believe it is...
02:35:15*ddalton Tries
02:35:35jhMikeSdisk mode on a sansa?
02:36:14linuxstbjhMikeS: Where does the 1-second accuracy come from? I thought the accuracy would be related to finding an I-frame - or do you decode without displaying, to seek to exact seconds?
02:37:08jhMikeSlinuxstb: It finds an I-frame before the desired time and winds the decoder forward to the precise frame.
02:37:50jhMikeSreally it uses GOPs atm which guarantee an I-frame.
02:40:15ddaltonjhMikeS: yep. how I get the e200 v2 into recovery mode...
02:41:11jhMikeSddalton: for manufacturer mode, hold switch ON+select. for recovery Hold ON+rec
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02:44:00linuxstbjhMikeS: On a v2?
02:44:19jhMikeSdidn't know it was a v2
02:44:20ddaltonjhMikeS: is that the v2?
02:44:58*jhMikeS looks back and sees that mentioned :\. Having a 2nd conversation here at the same time.
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02:47:37ddaltonjhMikeS: Email sent. Lets hope I get a reply. Bagder tells me to tell the truth and mention rockbox. So I did that. Aliask tells me to be ambiguous with what I say. So I guess if this message fails (hopefully it doesn't) then I can try aliask' idea...
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05:37:10jabronimikehi guys...wondering if someone could help me out with my iPod and Rockbox
05:37:28Mouser_XNo, we can't.
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05:37:37Mouser_XYou see, you haven't actually asked a question.
05:37:54Mouser_XAnd, all the psychics are gone for the day.
05:38:53jabronimikewell, uh, I installed rockbox on my 4G iPod, and it was working fine, like twice...but now it's uh. stuck at the Apple logo
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05:40:19jabronimikethe hard drive is spinning constantly. and the backlight is on. I can't seem to reset the iPod at all
05:41:20Mouser_XHave you looked at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodFAQ
05:43:12jabronimikeyeah, looking at it again right now
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05:45:53jabronimikewell, hmm, like a said, I can't seem to do a reset, so I was thinking maybe I have to run down the battery and get to the original firmware, you think that would work?
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05:46:22countrymonkeywebworked with me
05:47:03jabronimikeI just wish there was a way to run the battery down quicker :-(
05:47:16Mouser_Xjabronimike: The reset method ( http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodFAQ#How_do_I_reset_the_Ipod ) is hardwired. If it's not working, then your iPod is broken.
05:47:44Mouser_XEither that, or you're not doing it right, or you're not holding the buttons long enough.
05:48:10jabronimikehmm
05:48:11*Mouser_X doesn't have an iPod.
05:48:14jabronimikeokay
05:48:29jabronimikeI guess I will keep trying to reset it then
05:49:16countrymonkeyweb10 secs should work. I have the same ipod you have.
05:50:04Mouser_Xcountrymonkeyweb: 10 seconds or not, holding it for 30 should garantee it to work.
05:50:29countrymonkeywebyou are right
05:51:40jabronimikenot working
05:53:30jabronimikeoh my...
05:53:36jabronimikeI got it to reset
05:53:55jabronimikeand rockbox loaded fine :-)
05:54:08Mouser_XCongrats. How long did you hold the buttons?
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05:54:31jabronimikeI didn't really count
05:54:34jabronimike:-x
05:56:05jabronimikeI wonder what caused the problem though
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06:01:52jabronimikebut many thanks, guys :-)
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06:31:26afruff23I need some help with my iAudio X5. The headphone jack only gives sound to amplified sources, but not unamplified soruces (i.e. headphones). What is wrong?
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06:34:31countrymonkeyI just grabbed christy alice's batch of wav voice clips. Unfortunately, they are 3 years out of date. I want to have cygwin make the voice clips with a sapi5 voice and then replace the human voice clips with the ones I have. How do I have cygwin just make the clips?
06:34:58countrymonkeyI don't want cygwin to run voicefont.
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06:43:32countrymonkeyI just grabbed christy alice's batch of wav voice clips. Unfortunately, they are 3 years out of date. I want to have cygwin make the voice clips
06:44:04countrymonkeyand then I will add the human ones in and run voicefont myself
06:46:47countrymonkeyhow is this accomplished>
06:49:13afruff23forget my last message, the aduio does not work at all
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06:49:49alienbiker99afruff23 does it give sound on the OF
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06:52:13afruff23nope
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06:55:03afruff23line out and headphone prot both don't work
06:55:22alienbiker99than its more than likely a hardware problem
06:56:01afruff23are there any 20 GB or larger flash rockbox players?
06:56:20scorchenot stock...
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07:01:43afruff23which ones?
07:02:15afruff23what modification would it require? or they don't exist at all?
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07:05:39afruff23I opened up my X5 to try and fix the audio problem
07:05:42afruff23can somebody help me?
07:06:23afruff23I was able to unfasten the daughterboard whcih is conencted to the headphone jack and remote terminal
07:06:47afruff23I don't see anything that requires soldering
07:09:04afruff23what should I be looking for in my case (audio not working)
07:10:13afruff23are the line out and headphone ajck related?
07:10:23afruff23why would they both go out at the same time?
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07:15:21webguest44JdGordon: Can you get a message to ddalton the next (he?) is in here?
07:15:47JdGordonoh i hope not
07:16:01lostlogiclol
07:16:11webguest44Okay, thanks any way.
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08:18:45afruff23my x5 seems to work except....
08:18:56afruff23the audio goes out every second or so
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08:19:25JdGordonanyone able to translate fs#8261 into english?
08:20:17afruff23never mind
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08:30:32scorcheJdGordon: basically, he wants to have youtube and porn streamed to his ipod, have his ipod be a remote terminal for his computer through radio waves and have USBOTG through the headphone jack
08:31:01JdGordonso thats a no then?
08:31:10BHSPitLappyscorche, then he wants an iTouch, except for the usb part
08:31:41BHSPitLappy:)
08:33:08scorcheJdGordon: RESOLUTION: go out and buy an ipod touch and load a rockbox background on it
08:34:10BHSPitLappyI was actually thinking of trying to port a sim to my touch
08:34:22scorcheseems he spent a bit of time on wikipedia to grab some random terms though...
08:34:28*scorche heads to bed
08:35:26*JdGordon looking at wikipedia to find a good chinglish phrase to close that task with
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09:59:39SpexFoxHello fellas
10:00
10:01:46SpexFoxHello =)
10:09:37markunhi SpexFox
10:09:59SpexFoxwewt ^_^ living people. What's up?
10:10:30markunI gained quite some kilos the last few days :)
10:10:56*SpexFox is American
10:11:07SpexFoxI guess you mean you've gained some weight? =P
10:11:12markunyes
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10:11:35SpexFoxya seem pretty cheerful about that ^.^
10:11:54markunSpexFox: I could use the extra weight :)
10:11:59markunmorning HellDragon
10:12:03markuneh.. jhMikeS
10:13:34markunSpexFox: which player do you have?
10:13:38SpexFoxSo, I got myself a nice Xmas gift this year. A little old Zune 30 gig.
10:14:07SpexFoxAnd my first thought of course was "How can I screw around with this gadget in ways God never intended?"
10:14:17markuna nice player? (besides not running rockbox of course)
10:14:36SpexFoxSadly, doesn't look like anyone is working on a RockBox version for it. but yea =P
10:15:02SpexFoxI consider it nice anyway. I like the interface over iPods, and has some serious potential for home-brew'n and hacking
10:15:05markunfirst someone has to find out how to load custom software on it, then we can try to port rockbox to it
10:15:30markunwhat do you mean by "some serious potential for home-brew'n and hacking"?
10:16:10SpexFoxWell, I don't know what the hardware can do specifically, I'm not a serious electronics guy. But What I really mean
10:16:20SpexFoxis I'm excited about what can be done with the wifi
10:16:26markunDo you have a plan on how to get your own code running on it? The exploit we used for the Gigabeat S has been fixed in the Zune
10:16:51markunI completely forgot about the wifi
10:17:07markunmaybe porting linux to it would be more useful than rockbox
10:17:19SpexFoxTrue, which is why I'm looking forward to that too
10:17:28SpexFoxbut WiFi seems to be a growing trend in players
10:18:06markunI haven't heard of many players with wifi
10:18:43SpexFoxWell obviously there's iPod's Touch/Phone, and Zune, but there's also...crap, forget the name...
10:18:58SpexFoxStarts with an A I think. You could even use it to browse the web on some versions
10:19:07markunarchos
10:19:10SpexFoxyes
10:19:27SpexFoxThanks =) Archos
10:20:02*markun will be away for a while..
10:20:15SpexFoxBut yes, using WiFi to get devices connected to the internet unlocks worlds of media that's out there with just one feature
10:20:18*SpexFox nods
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11:09:08jhMikeSmarkun: eh.. markun?
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11:19:58amiconnhi jhMikeS
11:20:22amiconn2 days ago you asked a question regarding the grayscale lib which I didn't understand...
11:21:52jhMikeSamiconn: ah, I just saw the ping.
11:23:39jhMikeSamiconn: When using it buffered and drawing text, graphics etc, then using gray_ub_gray_bitmap_part. Once I've drawn the bitmap, it seems to mask-out further drawing in the area of the image.
11:24:08amiconnYes it does
11:24:28amiconnBuffered and unbuffered mode aren't meant to be used together
11:24:38amiconnEither use one or the other, but don't mix
11:24:54amiconnBuffered mode uses a back buffer in order to detect changes
11:24:59jhMikeSI tried unbuffered entirely from within the thumbnail display but that had other problems.
11:26:02jhMikeSI could see the top and bottom few pixels of the image and the center of the image just turned white.
11:26:14amiconnSo if you draw buffered contents and then update, back buffer will be set to front buffer contents. If you then draw unbuffered, contents of the display bitplanes will change, but neither front nor back buffer will (since the unbuffered drawing functions don't know about these buffers at all)
11:26:51amiconnIf you then do a (buffered) update, nothing will change, since back buffer and front buffer are still identical
11:28:48amiconnThe 2 modes exist because each has its advantages and disadvantages. Buffered mode has way more drawing functions (because they're almost trivil to implement compared to unbuffered mode), and the back buffer check reduces graininess when updating, because it only touches pixels which actually change
11:28:56jhMikeSWhy the masked-off rectangle? The areas never draw with _ub_ still operated fine.
11:29:11amiconnUnbuffered mode uses less ram, and is faster if there are lots of changes
11:29:32amiconnjhMikeS: There is no masked-off rectangle
11:31:35amiconnYou just won't see an effect if you draw buffered contents, then update() and the new buffered contents doesn't differ from the old buffered contents, even if the unbuffered contents draw in between is totally different
11:31:40jhMikeSIt seems to behave like that. I can continue drawing normally to all areas except the rectangle initially drawn with the unbuffered bitmap function so it behaves like it's an overlay on top of the buffered drawing. odd.
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11:32:06amiconnThe simple rule is - either use buffered mode or unbuffered mode, but don't mix them, as you will get unexpected results
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11:32:49amiconnFor video, I would always use unbuffered mode only
11:33:12amiconnThe graininess will go away with my new greyscale lib
11:33:42jhMikeSYou should try the mpegplayer patch on a gray target to see what I'm talking about. I need mixed drawing for browsing.
11:37:10amiconnEh, why?
11:37:53jhMikeSTo display UI elements and the video thumbnail image. When video is displayed I want unbuffered of course.
11:38:07amiconnI would simply switch off the grayscale overlay for browsing, apart from that I can't imagine what browsing you mean...
11:38:31jhMikeSSelecting a start point. This may become a scene thumbnailer at some point.
11:40:28amiconnJust use a partial overlay and draw UI elements below... that's what video.rock does when seeking
11:41:24jhMikeSWasn't sure how I could switch to a partial overlay. I saw APIs to move the overlay unless I missed something.
11:41:29amiconn(video.rock doesn't use the grayscale lib though, as its frames are pre-rendered)
11:43:46amiconnHmm, showing a partial overlay isn't possible right now. Something to consider for the new lib...
11:43:59amiconnYou can shift the defined overlay around though
11:45:53amiconnAnd nothing stops you from reiniting the library
11:46:57jhMikeSIf I init at the full size I suppose re-initing for a smaller size should definitely fit the RAM allocated?
11:48:13amiconnyes
11:48:52amiconnBuffered mode needs more ram than unbuffered mode though
11:49:47jhMikeSWith partial overlay I won't need buffered mode at all. I'll just draw around it.
11:50:36amiconnYes. Just keep in mind that you must not use lcd_update() or lcd_update_rect() when doing this.
11:51:23amiconnThat's why gray_deferred_lcd_update() exists
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11:52:55jhMikeSmakes sense. can you wait or poll until the defererred update has completed?
11:54:04amiconnHmm, not atm
11:54:13amiconnBut implementing this should be easy
11:54:29amiconngray_deferred_lcd_update() just sets a (private) flag in the lib
11:54:46amiconnThe ISR checks this flag, and if set, does an lcd_update and resets it
11:55:08jhMikeSI suppose I can cheat for the moment check the flag directly.
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12:04:15markunamiconn: this post suggests that rockbox lowers runtime and audio quality on the X5: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14630.0
12:04:23markundoes it lower runtime?
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12:05:10markunjhMikeS: I wanted to say "morning jhMikeS" but had an auto-completion accident :)
12:07:02markunamiconn: did you see my question just before you had the nick collision?
12:07:02jhMikeSmarkun: and good afternoon to you! :) (if I got the TZ thing right)
12:07:15*amiconn checks the log
12:07:17markunyes, 7 minutes after noon now :)
12:07:25pixelmamarkun: on the Iaudios you get longer runtime with Rockbox...
12:08:42amiconnmarkun: Rockbox provides longerruntime on iaudios than the OF manual states... but I never compared myself
12:09:00markunwhat does the manual state?
12:09:20amiconnOperating the OF is confusing if you know rockbox....
12:09:51markunI wonder what kind of drop in audio quality he's talking about
12:10:21amiconnIirc the manual states 14 hours for the plain models and 35 hours for the L models
12:10:51amiconnOf course we don't know what conditions cowon uses for measuring runtime
12:11:44pixelmamarkun: I think he means lossless > lossy audio quality drop
12:12:04amiconnWithout backlight, I got 15h 07min on X5 (my standard mp3 test album, ~200kbps)
12:12:19pixelmaand he doesn't seem to be too well informed, you can have mp3 gaplessly...
12:12:33amiconn...and 51h 57min on M5L...
12:13:41amiconnThe Cowon OF doesn't play MP3 gaplessly (there's a very tiny gap - *maybe* this is on M3 only though), but rockbox does
12:14:06markunpixelma: "... as not to be disappointed by the drop in sound quality by rockboxing"
12:14:15markundoes he mean that he can't use lossless in rockbox?
12:14:57amiconnDrop in sound quality? I dunno what he's talking about. When comparing iriver OF and rockbox, I had the impression that our mp3 decoder delivers better quality....
12:15:52amiconnThat said, I don't know what decoder cowon uses, i.e. whether it's the same as iriver's (afaik there is a highly optimized mp3 decoder for coldfire from freescale)
12:16:11markunI wrote a reply.
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12:17:48amiconn(3) is plain wrong, and (4) is highly subjective
12:18:30amiconnHe might want to try musepack - although it didn't convince me at all....
12:18:32pixelmamarkun: I don't know, he (?) seems to have read some information here and there and maybe drew the wrong conclusions. The only thing he would "lose" is the various sound manipulation things in the OF like BBE and what it is called...
12:19:35amiconn..and neither did vorbis - to me both vorbis -q5 and musepack -q5 don't sound transparent, unline lame −−preset standard (ending up at 200..240kbps for the music I am listening most atm)
12:19:48markunpixelma: yes, that might be it. This guy is also asking for such DSP effects: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14624.0
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12:25:19pixelmamarkun: I thought he was asking before installing Rockbox...
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13:39:43SanemindHello all.. is anyone around?
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13:41:06pixelmaanyone is not here ;)
13:41:21SanemindI have a simple question regarding the sansa rockbox port (amazing bit of work btw!).. I know that I can insert the adapter with the left button pushed to boot into original firmware...
13:41:41Sanemind..but upon doing so, the original firmware doesn' seem to see any of my music.
13:41:51SanemindWell, I'd settle for someone... ;)
13:42:55Sanemind..could this have to do with the statement 'disabling database rebuild' that the bootloader displays when loading the original firmware... thus the [inclined towards metadata /slash/ MTP ish device] doesn't scan for the presense of any mp3 files on it?
13:44:15Sanemind..it's not a huge issue... but it would be nice to listen using the original firmware to prolong battery life when I'm starting to run low..
13:44:46pixelmaI've been told that it should still scan when connecting to USB the next time (only the automatic reboot and scanning database after the disconnect should be disabled). Note: I don't have an e200
13:44:49Sanemind..even if it isn't possible, I'd still choose rockbox and all it's other features, even if I can't effectively 'dual-boot' just for listening to music.
13:45:13pixelmawhat happens if you turn the player off and then plug USB?
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13:45:29SanemindAh. Just to be sure here, I'm not talking about rockbox building the database, but about the original FW.
13:45:35pixelma(without holding some button)
13:45:46pixelmayes, I know
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13:46:17SanemindIn that case, It boots into original firmware and goes immedietly into USB drive mode. (At which poing it just shows a 'connected' logo on the screen)
13:46:24pixelmaand what format are the music files in question?
13:46:26Sanemind *sp* at which -point-
13:46:28Sanemind.mp3
13:46:37SanemindObviously I don't expect it to play my ogg's.
13:47:03SanemindMaybe they're in the wrong folder? I just asumed they should go in 'Music'
13:47:23pixelmano idea then, maybe someone else can answer
13:48:06pixelmaon my c200 the original firmware finds the music in any folder and I think it's quite similar on the e-series
13:48:11SanemindThanks. I'll leave the channel open and check back when I get home from work... maybe someone else will have advice. Thanks for your time.
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16:04:12CasainhoBagder: hello
16:04:24CasainhoBagder: AVR32718: AT32UC3 Series Software Framework DSPLib (28 pages, revision A, updated 11/07)
16:04:25CasainhoThis application note describes the DSP Library from the AVR32® Software Framework. It details the main functions (prototype, algorithm and benchmark) of the DSP library: FFT, convolution, FIR and partial IIR using GCC compiler.
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16:49:19spikHello. Just out of curiosity: what is most actively being worked on in RB?
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16:50:28spikThere has been not so many commits in the last days. Does this mean that RB slowly achieves saturation point?
16:50:47Buscheli guess this is because of xmas time :)
16:52:07spikok. Happy new year to everybody!
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16:53:31Lynx_does alac realtime playback not work on the ipods?
16:55:30soapI was under the impression it did - have you tried it unsuccessfully, or read something I missed?
16:56:31Lynx_the codecs table on the wiki does not have a checkmark for it
16:58:46Lynx_it's also missing ipod realtime checkmark for aac, i guess that can't be right
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17:40:42nmoranyone around im having some trouble installing rockbox
17:40:48nmor+ ?
17:41:20markunnmor: I'm here, what's the problem?
17:41:21sam240i might be able to help
17:41:54nmorim trying to use the automatic install utility on a win32 computer and it freeze after extracting
17:42:36sam240What hardware is it?
17:42:40nmoripod nanno first gen
17:43:01nmorive tried 2 builds trying 1.0.3 now
17:43:04nmorseems to be working better
17:43:16sam240Have you tried a manual install?
17:43:21nmoreh nope it froze at "extracting file" again
17:43:34nmorno i havent i will give that a go
17:43:43sam240I don't use windows so I don't know anything about the rockbox utility there
17:43:51 Quit barrywardell ()
17:44:10sam240There should be manual installation instructions in the manual for the nano
17:44:18sam240I'll have a quick look hold on
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17:45:26sam240http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodnano/rockbox-buildch2.html#x4-60002
17:46:02Lynx_i tried the utility a week back, too, and gave up due to some error
17:46:44TrayeQuick question...Trying to help someone who does not have IRC set upan iPOD video with Rockbox. It's a brand new iPOD video. Does my friend need to download iTUNES for any reason or can he simply install rockbox without initializing his database? I know when I installed Rockbox my database was already configured for iTUNES...So I wasn't sure and wasn't sure where to go for the answer so I popped up here.
17:47:11sam240You don't actually need itunes at all for an ipod video if you use rockbox
17:47:25soapTraye, you say "brand new"
17:47:30nmorokay i think i was just impatient. im extracting the files to the ipod with a zip utility and its just extremely slow
17:47:32TrayeOk so he doesn't need iTunes eeeever. Thank you!
17:47:40sam240It's not a classic is it?
17:47:48soapI assume that means, Traye, one which is either 80 of 160GB and has a metal face = Classic, not Video
17:47:53TrayeYes....Can he not use Rockbox if it is?
17:48:03soapRockbox does not work on the Classic.
17:48:03sam240Rockbox isn't available for the Classic
17:49:08TrayeThank you guys. :-)
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17:50:01nmorare ipods painfully slow in disk mode or somthing? its been about 5 minutes and its about 20% done
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17:50:13soapCan I assume you have a nano?
17:50:22nmoryes 1g nano
17:51:26soapRegardless, yes the iPods are slow, the Nano VERY slow, when in Apple's emergency disk mode (the Black and White screened one) - rebooting into Apple firmware manually and then inserting the USB cable so you are in Apple's main disk mode will be many, many, times faster on your Nano, and should be faster on other iPods as well.
17:51:29amiconnOnly Video and Nano are that slow
17:51:50nmorah
17:51:54amiconnAll earlier ipods have fast emergency disk mode
17:52:23amiconnOn Video and Nano it makes sense to reboot into OF before transferring large amounts of files
17:52:29sam240Out of curiosity, is there any reason that the emergency disk modes are slower on the new ones?
17:52:50nmorto annoy rockbox users ;x
17:53:30sam240Do the older ipods have a hardware usb controller?
17:54:09nmorbut yeah im pretty sure the "freezing" was infact extremely slow extracting
17:54:17nmorand no progress bar for it
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17:55:22amiconnsam240: No, all ipods have software usb. For the speed difference ask apple...
17:56:51webguest29Hi all, I have a question one of you may know off the top of your head (I've already looked through the bug listings...)
17:57:25webguest29I just tried out a new theme on my sansa e260, and it ended up altering some of the menu prompts...
17:57:43webguest29Now, instead of "Browse Themes" I have "Write.cfg file"
17:58:10webguest29Any ideas if I can just remove or update a particular file, or do I have to reinstall the whole thing...
17:59:04sam240I don't know about undoing that one particular change, but there is a way of resetting settings temporarily on boot up
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17:59:25webguest29Great, I'll try that, do I just hold in a key?
17:59:34sam240The particular method for doing it is probably specific to your player
17:59:47sam240It'll be in the manual I expect
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18:00:05webguest29Oh, I thought you meant on Rockbox...
18:00:14sam240Yes, on rockbox
18:00:22webguest29oh, i get ya
18:00:38sam240On the ipods I'm pretty sure you can do it with the hold switch on bootup
18:00:38webguest29ok, I'll give that a go...
18:01:12*nmor snores
18:01:50webguest29Ok, it worked... it was the record button on the sansa, I got my "Settings" menu back instead of "Control Panel"...
18:02:06webguest29I wonder if it will last now... lemme restart it
18:02:44webguest29woohoo, it did.. I got my cabbie default back
18:02:47webguest29you rock sam!
18:02:56sam240No worries
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18:03:40EternalRainswhen, in a theme, scrolling and sub-lines are combined, and the subline changes while the line is scrolling, does the scroll pick up where it left off when it switches back?
18:04:52amiconnNo, the scrolling starts over
18:05:55EternalRainsso if the subline switch delay is too short, is it possible that really long lines may never have the end seen?
18:06:25*Buschel is heading towards 12h runtime with his 5G 30GB :o)
18:07:44Buschel...and there should still be some room for further improvement
18:08:41markunBuschel: what did you change?
18:09:18Buschel#fs 8379 + several changes in setting registers at startup
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18:09:34amiconnThe 30GB is the one with the small battery, correct?
18:09:55Buschelyes, 400mah
18:09:55nmorwoohoo
18:09:55nmormanual installation worked
18:09:55nmorthanks for the help guys
18:10:09markunnmor: have fun with rockbox!
18:10:15amiconnThat sounds really good! :)
18:10:20nmorneed...theme....now....
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18:10:31amiconnI wonder how much of it will be reusable for other PP502x targets
18:10:36sam240Buschel: What battery life does the OF get on the 30GB one?
18:10:59amiconnBuschel: Do you disable the opto controller when hold is enabled?
18:11:43Buschelinteresting thing is: when using 100MHz max speed instead of 80MHz the power consumption is ~6 mA higher. this also means that increasing the default speed to what the codec needs (mpc ~35MHz), the power consumption will be lowered further
18:12:00webguest38Hi. Where can i get the builds that are unstable?
18:12:03Buschelsam240: 14h from apple's site
18:12:07Buschelamiconn: yes
18:12:18amiconnBtw, I use a similar strategy on ipod 1st gen. The 1st gen wheel draws a lot of power, but is switchable. By default, rockbox checks state for ~50us every tick (0.5% duty cycle) and only leaves it enabled when there is activity. On hold, the wheel is didsabled completely
18:12:20soapBuschel, do you want me to run some benches?
18:12:39Buschelsoap, not yet. i will update the patch
18:12:42soapseeing as I have (IMHO) the most complete collection of existing benches on my 5th gen..
18:12:49soapok - PM me when you want me to.
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18:12:57Buschelsoap: I'll do
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18:13:56soap(and I want to maintain the IpodRuntime 5th gen record) ;)
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18:14:14sam240soap: What is it currently?
18:14:19amiconnWell, the 60/80GB models should get more runtime due to their larger battery
18:14:28advcomp2019webguest38, why do you want an unstable build
18:14:41*amiconn could test on LinusN's 80GB 5.5th gen (still have it here)
18:14:53nmorhey guys where in the manual can i find info on putting files on the rockbox? im not totall sure how the structure etc works
18:15:16webguest38To test it on a h10
18:15:19sam240nmor: What files? You mean music?
18:15:21EternalRainsadvcomp2019: i guess he means the latest bleeding-edge with everything
18:15:28nmoryeah sam
18:15:32webguest38yes
18:15:33EternalRainsnmor: pretty much anywhere
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18:15:42amiconnBuschel: Do you measure current directly, or calculate (average) current from runtime tests?
18:15:51sam240nmor: Just drag and drop. I created a /Music directory on mine.
18:16:00EternalRainswebguest38: http://build.rockbox.org/
18:16:05nmorso if i want them organized by artist etc i need seperate folders on the drive right?
18:16:06Buschelamiconn: via runtime test, runs for >5h now
18:16:33EternalRainsnmor: rockbox automatically reads the ID3 tags, no need for that
18:16:34webguest38ThaNKS
18:16:34sam240nmor: Yes. If you're music isn't very well organised just shove it all on and use the database
18:16:36soapsam240, 13:45 on a 60GB under perfect conditions. 10:24 on a 30GB under unknown conditions.
18:16:42amiconnRuntime test isn't that precise, and testing this way is really time consuming....
18:16:49EternalRainswebguest38: You're welcome :)
18:17:00Buschelamiconn: i know, but i've got no other way working here :/
18:17:08sam240soap: What constitutes "perfect" conditions?
18:17:28soapno wps, no backlight, no buffer trashing
18:17:47soapno EQ, or other DSP
18:18:00amiconnNo wps??
18:18:00EternalRainsno unneccessary thinking?
18:18:14sam240Codec?
18:18:30*amiconn usually tests with default wps (yes, that includes peakmeters)
18:19:05EternalRainsI test with my own that probably almost crashes rockbox with its size
18:19:08amiconnThe only exception so far was my 2nd Gen runtime test (peakmeters would have been too demanding - that was long before my lcd optimisations)
18:19:11salty-horsehi. I'm noticing an odd behavior with pictureflow in the latest svn. turning sansa's wheel clockwise scrolls the pictureflow to the left. and when viewing the track list, it moves up instead of down
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18:19:21soapno WPS - I leave it in the menu - I do the same when benching the Apple firmware.
18:19:44amiconnSo on 2nd Gen I tested using iCatcher
18:19:57amiconnNo wps isn't realistic, I'd say
18:20:16amiconnAnd btw, the 52 hours on M5L were also measured with default wps
18:20:17soapI'm not going for realistic - I'm going for repeatable.
18:20:36soapSo individual changes can be compared.
18:20:47amiconnDefault wps is repeatable too....
18:21:04sam24052 hours of battery life :-0
18:21:04soapthe WPS display and parsing code was (is) in a state of flux.
18:21:32amiconnsam240: Yup. The iAudio L models are runtime beasts :)
18:22:14sam240I used to have an iriver that did 30 hours but 50 is just ridiculous
18:22:25amiconnX5L isn't as good as M5L because of the colour LCD, and the extra chips, even though those are usually in standby (usbotg, radio and serial number)
18:22:54nmorwow
18:23:03nmorrockbox is the fucking cats pajamas
18:23:57nmorthanks again for the help gusy
18:24:00nmorguys*
18:24:04sam240nmor: Have you used it before now?
18:24:45nmorno sam i have a 30gb ipod video that i usually use and this nano is old i decided to try it out
18:24:50nmorand will probably convert the video over
18:26:29sam240The apple original firmware tends to treat you like an idiot, having basically no configurability. Rockbox has configuration options out the wazoo,
18:26:36sam240That's mostly why I like it
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18:27:47nmoryeah i never really minded the ipod firmware just because i like itunes in the first place. but after using the rockbox for a few minutes i think i like it way more
18:28:17sam240Does the nano have doom on it?
18:28:27sam240That's always good for wowing people
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18:29:12amiconnAll supported swcodec rockbox targets have doom
18:29:30amiconnThat is, if you install wad(s)
18:29:57nmori did hower just load a theme that broke it x;
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18:32:01nmorcan anyone point me to how i can reset the default theme
18:32:39sam240nmor: Well you can reset all the settings
18:32:45nmorthats fine
18:33:10sam240Can you get to the settings/manage settings screen?
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18:39:33Buschelsoap: feel free to test now. fs #8379
18:39:49Buscheli gotta reload my ipod and then start the next test run...
18:39:59soapso this is ready for a 15 hour bench?
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18:40:56Buscheljust test the following: restart to disk mode via plugging USB cable in, switching hold on and off and try to use the scrollwhell.
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18:43:36Buschelalso I hope the increase of default clock helps as much as I expect...
18:43:55amiconnI doubt it
18:44:09Buschelsoap: which audio format will you use?
18:44:22amiconnThe PP chips don't seem to vary core voltage with clock, hence power consumption depends linearly on clock
18:44:54amiconnSo switching back & forth has no disadvantage over using a fixed clock, apart from the (small) switching overhead
18:44:58Buschelamiconn: hmm, that does not fit to my measurments where 100MHz max clock did use 6mA more than 80MHz max clock
18:45:12soapBuschel, probably my 191kbs mp3 playlist - I also have a matching 191kbs ogg playlist.
18:45:16amiconnDid you perform multiple runs?
18:45:19Buschelin an environment which uses ~36MHz
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18:45:52Buschellet's see ;o)
18:46:05amiconnAlso, it could be that the battery just gives up earlier due to the higher current at max. clock, even though the average current isn't higher
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18:46:37amiconnIncreasing the default clock will make things worse for really efficient codecs (e.g. flac)
18:47:03Buschelamiconn: that's correct. maybe we should think about adaptive clock?
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18:49:02TheCompWizafternoon folks.
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18:53:12TheCompWizanyone know if/how much progress has been made on the new usb stack... (in particular... with the sansa e200 series devices)
18:53:31TheCompWiznot much info to glean from the few notes available.
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18:55:32nmorcan anyone help me on reseting my rockbox settings? after applying a theme i cant see anything but black
18:55:48TheCompWizLOL ... delete the config
18:56:08webguest68I just recieved an ipod, that will not reformat due to the fact it is a mack formated Ipod. How do I convert it to windows
18:56:12TheCompWiz .rockbox/config.cfg
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18:56:28amiconnBuschel: I can't imagine how that could work, given the necessary flexibility
18:57:11soapBuschel, restarting to disk mode via plugging in USB works. - and now I'm thinking you wanted me to toggle hold and test scrollwheel /before/ rebooting to disk mode...
18:57:13TheCompWizwebguest68: ... I know how to reformat a partition... however... I don't think ipods have a "mac" format & "windows" format.
18:57:26TheCompWizand what I would do... could quite possibly break it.
18:57:46lassesdatamaskinyes there is a mac format, called HFS+ I believe
18:57:55lassesdatamaskinyou need to format the ipod to FAT32
18:58:01karashatathe easiest way I know of is to plug the mac into a Windows computer with iTunes and have iTunes reformat the device
18:58:10karashatahowever, you'll lose everything on there
18:58:10amiconnYou can't break ipods... and the macpod->winpod conversion is described in the wiki
18:58:10Buschelamiconn: hmm, we could use the two clocks (normal/max) and measure the boost ratio -> then calculate the target clock and set it. this must be redone in a cyclic way...
18:58:18TheCompWizlassesdatamaskin: ... I know about HFS... but HFS formatted flash would die in a month.
18:58:23Buschelsoap: yes.
18:58:42TheCompWiz(my guess)
18:58:48amiconnTheCompWiz: How so? All current flash controllers do internal wear levelling
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18:59:38TheCompWizamiconn: ... true... but HFS+ is a journalized file system... all the excessive re-writes would cause flash rot. perhaps it's a *slightly* modified non-journalized version...
19:00
19:00:03sam240TheCompWiz: How often do you write to the filesystem of an mp3 player?
19:00:24zesam240: if its flash-based, thats not much storage, potentially often
19:00:31TheCompWiz*my* mp3 system? quite regularly. but I don't have an IPOD... nor do I want one.
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19:00:55sam240Aah I'm thinking in terms of big hard disk players
19:01:04amiconnTheCompWiz: (V)FAT(32) would also be bad if there were no wear levelling.
19:01:11TheCompWizagreed.
19:02:28sam240From what I've heard, flash is actually a lot more robust than most people think
19:02:49sam240I'm sure with modern flash and wear-levelling you can get at least 100,000 cycles out of it
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19:06:37soapBuschel, after toggling hold, scrollwheel still works. after another bit of charge I'll start battery bench?
19:08:06Buschelsoap: sounds good. a 80 or 30GB?`
19:09:43soap60
19:10:27Buschelah, ok.so it has the large battery
19:11:00soapyea
19:11:23Buschelsoap: and don't forget to activate "hold" during the test :o)
19:11:59soapwhat does hold toggle?
19:12:24EternalRainsbacklight possibly?
19:12:34sam240Does the 60GB version have a bigger battery than the 80GB?
19:12:50soapno
19:13:07lassesdatamaskinis sometimes used as an extra buttons for some of the games/plugins, like doom
19:13:25EternalRainsexcuse me?
19:13:58soapjust the clickwheel - USB/DEV_IDE0 changes aren't hold triggered?
19:14:04Buschelsoap: if hold is active the scrollwheel device is switched off now. this saves some battery
19:14:48sam240Buschel: How does the scrollwheel use battery?
19:15:54EternalRainschecking for if activity uses some battery right?
19:16:06EternalRainsoops
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19:16:45Buschelsoap: USB is disabled now as long as USB is plugged in
19:18:55Buschelahem, ...until USB is plugged in...
19:20:05sam240Does anybody know if playing flac or mp3 uses more battery? I know flac is cheaper computationally, but it needs a lot more disk access.
19:20:39BuschelI remember someone measured flac to use less battery
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19:22:14soappre HDD poweroff.
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19:22:48soapshouldn't HDD poweroff raise the _relative_ cost of FLAC?
19:23:14sam240I could do a benchmark
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19:30:55sam240TheCompWiz: On the ipod video you can hold down menu while plugging in the usb cable
19:30:55soapTheCompWiz, hold "Menu" on you iPod (?) during USB cable insertion (and for a few moments after).
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19:31:07soapok - why is logbot talking to me?
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19:31:25CtcpVersion from freenode-connect!freenode@freenode/bot/connect
19:31:28scorche|weh?
19:31:35linuxstbsoap: My tests are the top two under "iPod G4" on the IpodRuntime page - done on 2007-11-12
19:32:29TheCompWizstill forces a reboot :( but at least I see the usb thingie pop up... as opposed to a flat reboot.
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19:33:30 Nick soap is now known as Soap (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
19:33:44sam240TheCompWiz: What player have you got?
19:33:49TheCompWizsansa e250...
19:33:54TheCompWizHOLLY CRAP! it worked that time. ;)
19:34:06sam240It might be a different button on those players maybe?
19:34:14LloreanIt's "Select" on the Sansa e200 series
19:35:38TheCompWizany winblows drivers for this thing?
19:35:59Soap"New USB stack with limited capability. Currently it only requests full charging power. Ignore driver popups from Windows."
19:36:06Soap(from the front page)
19:36:48TheCompWizoooh! pretty full.
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19:37:06TheCompWizwhere would I find the "press X to get Z"?
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19:37:58LloreanX to get Z?
19:38:24 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
19:38:33TheCompWiz... fill in the blanks... i.e. the "press the select while plugging in cable to get it to *not* reboot"
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19:39:55sam240TheCompWiz: I would have thought it would all be in the manual?
19:40:01TheCompWizso would I.
19:40:12escargotHi, I have a question: I installed rockbox on an ipod nano (1st gen). When I go to the database, it says "Building database ... 35 found (PREV to return)" and stays stuck there forever.
19:40:40TheCompWizlooks like a statement to me.
19:40:47mirakhi
19:40:55TheCompWizlwo
19:40:57TheCompWiz*low
19:40:58LloreanTheCompWiz: Well, "press x to get z" would be "press Select to get ____"? I mean, your phrase didn't directly map to a sentence, because it's "Hold select while inserting USB if you want USB mode not to start.
19:41:09LloreanSo I was assuming you *actually* meant a sentence structured like you typed, and thought you were asking a new question
19:41:23TheCompWizLlorean: ... I meant "in general" ... is there a guide to all the odd-ball shortcuts someplace?
19:41:37LloreanTheCompWiz: Generally speaking, everything is in the manual. If things get left out we appreciate patches to improve the manual.
19:42:13sam240escargot: If it's been like that for a while try restarting the player. Sometimes it gets frozen on that screen on the first time scan (for me anyhow)
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19:44:33TheCompWizdoes someone know sumpin' about SD vs SDHC sockets? you can't make a SD socket read a SDHC card... correct?
19:44:57TheCompWizor is it a matter of a driver?
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19:47:35sam240Quick question for anybody that knows python
19:47:36LloreanTheCompWiz: It's dependent. The major difference, iiuc, is a matter of addressing. So it depends on how you're interfaced with the hardware.
19:48:08LloreanFor example, in the e200/c200 we were able to use MicroSDHC cards once Rockbox was installed and properly addressing them
19:48:19sam240What syntax do you use to check if n is an integer (I've just started learning)
19:48:25Lloreansam240: I don't believe there's any python used in Rockbox...
19:49:08TheCompWizso, its typically a *driver* level thing... not really any particular hardware.... but obviously... some hardware is better-designed to deal with the extended addressing...
19:49:15sam240Llorean: Sorry, had the window open and thought somebody might know...
19:49:18TheCompWizcorrect?
19:50:19Lloreansam240: This is an on topic channel. Please respect the guidelines, they aren't that confusing
19:51:12LloreanTheCompWiz: Mostly it's a driver level thing. But sometimes it may be a case of, for example, embedded firmware in a card reader or something so that a PC side driver may not be able to do anything about it.
19:51:23TheCompWizyup.
19:51:23Lloreaniiuc
19:51:49TheCompWizLlorean: thanks mucho for clearing that up. I thought as much... but wasn't sure if they added a 2nd layer of pins or some crap like that.
19:52:02TheCompWiz(I dont have an sdhc card ;))
19:52:41EternalRainsI 've been wondering, if you try to put a margin in a conditional, would it work like this:
19:52:43EternalRains%?C<%m|50|>
19:52:45EternalRainsOr would you have to escape it like this?
19:52:46EternalRains%?C<%m%|50%|>
19:53:33linuxstbThe former should work, but maybe it's %?C<%m|50||>
19:53:41TheCompWizis there a dev page for rockbox? (i.e. to-dos, what's currently being worked on... )
19:53:56karashatalinuxstb has it right
19:54:14EternalRainsthank you
19:54:35scorche|wTheCompWiz: well, that depends on what you are looking for specifically...they is the tracker, irc logs, the wiki, etc
19:54:46scorche|ws/they/there
19:55:14TheCompWizoki doki... better question... what needs to be done?... and how can I help? lol
19:55:46LloreanTheCompWiz: Go to the patch tracker, filter "bugs", pick ones that you can reproduce, and fix them. :)
19:56:14TheCompWizno "milestones?"
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19:57:05LloreanRunning well is a good deal more important than adding features on MP3 players, you can't always put an updated firmware on it halfway through a trip.
19:57:25LloreanAny release version would be more based on "when we get it running well enough" if anything
19:57:27TheCompWizagreed.
19:57:57TheCompWizbut at the same time... it helps to know what you're working towards... rather than patch something someone else has patched because it is working towards something better.
19:59:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:59:18LloreanI don't understand
19:59:26LloreanWhen fixing bugs, you're working towards "making it work again"
20:00
20:00:00TheCompWizi.e. ... if I patched an old usb stack... before the "new usb stack" was implemented... would have been a wasted effort.
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20:01:23linuxstbTheCompWiz: There isn't such a list of what people are working on - your best bet is to pick something that interests you, and mention it here on IRC. If someone else (for example) is working on the same thing, they'll tell you.
20:01:36LloreanThere are very few "new systems" going in to replace old ones anyway
20:02:02LloreanBoth Metadata on Buffer and the new USB stack are really the only two examples of them in relatively recent times, and they've been pretty widely discussed and such.
20:04:12alienbiker99viewports too
20:04:56scorche|wwell, viewports isnt really being worked on currently
20:05:30*linuxstb wonders what he's been doing the past few days then...
20:05:35LloreanViewports doesn't count for that anyway.
20:05:56LloreanIf you fix *bugs*, viewports shouldn't negate your fixing of them, unless they happen to be fixed by viewports (I don't think too many will be, since it's supposed to mostly maintain compatibility, in theory)
20:06:13*markun found some WMA's which don't play in rockbox but do play in ffmpeg
20:06:22scorche|wlinuxstb: ah...sorry...i was gone for 5 days :)
20:06:26Lloreanmarkun: Low bitrate?
20:06:43markunI think so
20:07:24markun48.2kb/s, is that low?
20:07:38EternalRainsrelatively, yes
20:08:04EternalRains96-128 is normal audio quality i think
20:08:05LloreanI think the problems start at <64 but it might've been <32
20:08:23LloreanThere's some feature the encoder enables at that point that, iirc, we don't have support for yet.
20:08:28LloreanUnless I missed its addition
20:08:31markunLlorean: do we know what the problem is?
20:08:44markunah, ok
20:08:50scorche|wLlorean: i was thinking <32, but wasnt sure
20:09:29LloreanIt might be <32
20:09:33markunthe sim gets a segmentation fault, not a very nice way to tell me we don't support some feature :)
20:09:42LloreanAh, that might be something different then
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20:12:20Aloneahey, which manual is more updated, the html one, right?
20:12:56LloreanThey're the same
20:13:07LloreanThey're both generated automatically daily from the same files
20:13:39Aloneaok. I just remember a long time ago the pdf wasn't as up to date as everything else.
20:13:53markunAlonea: maybe a browser cache problem?
20:13:57LloreanThere was an old PDF for rockbox 2.4
20:14:02LloreanMaybe that's what was being referred to?
20:14:42AloneaLlorean: possibly. like I said, lonnng time ago. around a year..gosh have I had rockbox that long. wow
20:14:43scorche|wi still have one of those on my computer somewhere...
20:15:01LloreanIt would've been more than a year, I think.
20:15:02*Llorean shrugs
20:15:13scorche|wmuch more
20:15:42Aloneagettting manual for dad since he is getting rockbox on his sansa I got him for christmas
20:15:55LloreanWell the current PDF is better for printing out.
20:15:57Aloneahe already hates the original firmware.
20:16:17LloreanAlso better for searching, I'd say, since you can search the whole document
20:16:24AloneaLlorean: yeah, I am going to waste paper and print it out for him.
20:16:30mirakdoes anyone knows a too that copy files in alphabetical order ?
20:17:00Aloneahe has bad eyesight and has trouble with computer screens sometimes.
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20:18:44rashermirak: ?
20:26:43 Part sam240
20:29:23mirakrasher: my autoradio seems to play files in the order they are copied on the file system
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20:30:05EternalRainsperhaps it's in the settings somewhere??
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21:27:41BucketOfTruthI thought maybe this would be a good place to find out... Any car-stereos with SD slots that play OGG?
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21:28:27Mouser_XBucketOfTruth: This is #rockbox, not #radios_with_SD_Slots.
21:29:03desowinBucketOfTruth: I wonder if sansa e200 would be okay for you ;)
21:29:14desowinbut it has minisd slot
21:29:20desowins/minisd/microsd/
21:30:17Clintare there any useful players with mini- or micro-usb instead of proprietary ports?
21:30:29amiconnsure
21:30:33Mouser_XGigabeat
21:30:42LinusNiaudio m5
21:30:56LinusNiriver h100 and h300
21:31:15Clintexcellent
21:31:25amiconnAnd archos fm recorder, recorder v2 and Ondios
21:31:28BucketOfTruthcar stereo folks aren't very interactive. This channel isn't totally unrealated to my question. rockbox is a way to play ogg on your ipod... I figured someone in here might have a come across a car stereo that plays ogg.
21:32:10amiconnBucketOfTruth: It would only be on-topic in case you're planning to port rockbox to such a car stereo
21:32:19*amiconn 's car stereo does have an sd slot
21:33:48cgi bought http://www.mysilvercrest.de/en/artikel.php?a=127 just for the same reason (lidl brand)
21:33:57*Llorean 's car stereo has a tape player, and he simply uses a cheap adapter.
21:34:25Mouser_XThere's an MP3 player in the shape of an audio cassete that reads SD cards. You cuold use that.
21:34:36*amiconn didn't buy his car stereo because of the sd slot, but only because of the dab tuner and line input
21:35:12Mouser_XIf my car stereo were stolen, I wouldn't notice for at least a month.
21:35:16 Quit nmor (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:35:30*amiconn uses the line input most these days, for hooking up one of his various rockbox players :)
21:35:45Mouser_XNow that sounds like a useful feature.
21:35:48BucketOfTruththanks, cg. That looks like a promising link
21:35:51LinusNthe stock stereo in my volvo has line-in. i can use any rockbox player i want :-)
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21:36:32Slasherii have a custom speakers and amplifiers in my car, with line-in only :)
21:37:05Slasheri1500W AC inverter for standard power supply
21:38:27BucketOfTruththanks all.
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21:43:17amiconnhmm
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21:44:02amiconnPerhaps I should at least try to find out what architecture that car stereo uses.... in case someone wants to port rockbox :>
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22:09:57EternalRainsAre multiple margins (top, left, right, bottom) going to be implemented
22:09:59EternalRains?
22:10:30LloreanNo, because Viewports will negate the need for it.
22:11:24EternalRainsviewports?
22:14:11LloreanYes. Basically a different, more flexible, method of achieving the same goal
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22:21:54dnanarhi all !
22:23:05bertrikhi dnanar
22:23:56bertrikif you have a question about rockbox, just ask
22:25:38dnanari have a Cowon iAudio X5L. i'm trying to use a new battery on it. I removed old battery under HDD, putted new one. I checked voltage between red/black wire on the player's motherboard, i get around 3.5V. Problem : the player does not start, even with two batteries. It only start when i try to "reload" the player (i get access to musics, etc... with rockbox)... Can anyone help me to know what's wrong please ?
22:27:12dnanarbertrik: i can ask this question here even if it's not rockbox directly related please ?
22:28:27bertrikI don't have such a player. My guess would be that the new battery is nearly empty which prevents the device from starting normally (safety kicking in). Maybe you can let it recharge some more?
22:29:05bertrikdnanar: I'm not an admin here, but I think it needs to be at least partially rockbox related
22:29:14dnanarwell... when i check the voltage, it shows ~3.5 which means it's ok no ?
22:29:23dnanarok
22:29:48bertrikif it's a lithium ion, 3.5V is on the low end AFAIK
22:31:01dnanararf ok
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22:31:33bertrikbut I have no such device, so I'm not really an authority on the subject
22:31:43dnanarok
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22:33:23dnanarok wo i try to reload, thanks
22:33:27dnanarso*
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23:00:02dnanarit worked :D
23:00:14dnanarherm that was dumb finally -_-
23:00:23dnanargood night !
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23:05:00TheCompWizhave a happy new year everyone! I'm outa here.
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23:16:53bertrikBuschel: just noticed your device disables patch, I'll try and see if anything breaks on a sansa e2x0
23:17:26LloreanMaybe we need a "Common problems that are not bugs" page of some sort linked to very blatantly from the tracker
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23:28:25crzyboysterAbout Cabbie 2.0, how would you go about renaming all the files?
23:29:57crzyboysterI looked in the svn database and found that just the wps files are renamed to screen size, but what about the various .cfg (theme) files?
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23:32:55crzyboysterAlso, various ports have different sizes for the images, how would this work?
23:34:30crzyboysterAnybody there? (Well, people have to be there as there's a whole list of them to the right)
23:35:13DefineByteHave we reached a consensus on contractions in the manual yet?
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23:40:32newnickhey i have a 80 gb ipod video and the bootloader wont recognize the ipod what do i do?
23:40:35newnickanyone
23:40:59newnickhello anyone here
23:41:03newnickhello
23:41:08DefineBytehi
23:41:10scorche|w....patience
23:41:13Bagdercalm down
23:41:14newnickoh ok
23:41:25DefineBytehow did you try and install it?
23:41:27newnicki have it on diskmode
23:41:37newnicki put the ipod on disk mode
23:41:47newnickthen i ran the ipodpatcher
23:42:06newnickthe one for ipod video since i have an ipod 80g video
23:42:34newnicki resotore it with itunes current firmware veirsion
23:42:53newnickbut when i click on ipodpather says error no ipod connect or recognized
23:43:46newnickis there anything i can do
23:44:06LloreanIs it a new iPod 80gb, or an older one?
23:44:28newnickits a grey shiny metalic i think is the 5g
23:44:51LloreanMetallic is not the 5G
23:44:58newnickthen what
23:45:01LloreanMetallic are the "iPod Classic"
23:45:07scorche|ws/metallic/all metallic
23:45:07newnickit says 80gb in the front
23:45:22newnicki mean on the back
23:45:23LloreanThere are 80gb Classics
23:45:29LloreanThey come in 80 and 160
23:45:45newnickit looks new
23:45:51tonyyarussoOkay, first a question: Is the Cowon iAudio 7 (their new one) supported by Rockbox?
23:45:54newnickplays video
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23:46:19Bagdertonyyarusso: the supported players are listed on the rockbox.org front page
23:46:28Lloreannewnick: The iPod Classic is New and plays Video
23:46:28Bagder... where the iaudio 7 is not included
23:46:42Lloreannewnick: The iPod Video is actually an older iPod. They're on 6G now.
23:46:53Llorean6G = iPod Classic, 5.5G and 5G = iPod Video
23:46:58tonyyarussoBagder: Some of their others are though, so I thought maybe someone might have tried it and not gotten around to listing it yet.
23:47:14Lloreantonyyarusso: It's not a case of simply "try it"
23:47:21LloreanA lot of specific work must be done to make it work on a given player
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23:47:30Bagdertonyyarusso: some are working on it yes
23:47:44tonyyarussoLlorean: Ah - forgive the ignorance.
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23:48:20tonyyarussoIn that case, second question: Is it possible to "dual-boot" audio players like PCs? ie, run both default firmware and rockbox for testing at the same time?
23:48:25newnickso i have the 5g right
23:48:35 Part marks_
23:48:36Bagdertonyyarusso: we do that on just about all supported targets
23:48:46tonyyarussoBagder: nifty
23:48:55Lloreannewnick: You said it's metallic all over, which is NOT the 5G
23:49:09newnickno just metallic on the front
23:49:18newnickwell its all metal i think
23:49:21LloreanYes
23:49:24newnickbut just the front part is grey
23:49:25LloreanThe iPod 5G has a plastic front
23:49:30LloreanThat is either black, or white.
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23:49:44newnickmine is grey kinda shiny
23:49:54LloreanI'll repeat, yet again then, yours is a Classic
23:50:02newnickso a classic
23:50:07LloreanYes
23:50:10LloreanIt is not supported
23:50:12Mouser_XWhich isn't supported.
23:50:16newnickits not
23:50:17newnickdamn
23:50:18Mouser_XBeaten again...
23:50:20newnickserios
23:50:23newnickserious
23:50:28Mouser_XVery
23:50:28tonyyarussoNext, I had a pondering that could make a neat feature request that I wanted to bounce off this crowd: What about including some means of text-to-speech synthesis (such as festival), so that one could load .txt (or even .pdf if possible) files onto their player, and have them read to them on-the-go? Would that be hard to do, given that festival already exists (with multiple languages supported)?
23:50:53Bagdertonyyarusso: that's not a new feature-request even :-)
23:51:01Lloreantonyyarusso: There's even a patch in the tracker for espeak
23:51:11LloreanWe just can't use it because it uses a GPLv3 version of espeak
23:51:26tonyyarussoBagder: I've been going through the list atm to make sure it wasn't already on there; will submit if not.
23:51:49tonyyarussoLlorean: What license does rockbox need?
23:52:11Mouser_Xtonyyarusso: It's in the flyspray. I've looked at it myself. Rockbox needs GPL, I would assume v1.
23:52:16Bagdertonyyarusso: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7660
23:52:23newnickcan i install anything to my ipod classic
23:52:24Lloreantonyyarusso: GPLv2
23:52:29LloreanMouser_X: v2
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23:52:35Mouser_XAh, I didn't know.
23:52:35Bagdernewnick: not rockbox
23:52:45newnickwhat about iboy
23:52:49*Mouser_X us pleasently informed.
23:52:53newnickor ipod linux
23:52:57Bagdernewnick: this is #rockbox, we talk rockbox
23:52:57Mouser_Xnewnick: We have Rockboy.
23:53:03Lloreannewnick: This is #Rockbox. We are an on topic channel, please respect that
23:53:09Bagderbut no, ipodlinux doesn't run on that player either
23:53:19tonyyarussoLlorean: hmm, ok
23:53:21LloreanIf iPL did I'd bet we would within 6 months.
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23:54:21tonyyarussoBagder: btw, how would I track progress of a port for a specific player? Are there RSS feeds, web pages, mailing lists, etc. for port-specific updates?
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23:54:48Bagdertonyyarusso: this channel, dev mailing list, the forum and the dedicated wiki page(s)
23:55:00tonyyarussook
23:55:07 Quit webguest56 (Client Quit)
23:55:37Bagderof course, keeping track of similar targets can also be useful...
23:55:43Bagder:-)
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