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#rockbox log for 2007-12-29

00:03:57 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:04:31DefineByteAre contractions in the manual even important? Shall I just move on? xD
00:05:06*Bagder doesn't care much
00:05:50DefineByteso that's one vote for 'stfu db'.
00:06:16Bagder:-)
00:07:31 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@usw3662-s-207-244-148-63.dsl.w-link.net)
00:07:31*Llorean has stated his side already. :)
00:07:59DefineByteI'm just wondering how things ever get decided. :D
00:08:16LloreanSomeone arbitrates.
00:08:27LloreanOr someone makes an arbitrary decision to commit or reject.
00:08:28Bagderwe don't really go for consensus
00:09:14LloreanConsensus can't really work on a large scale unless you codify some sort of complicated voting solution.
00:09:18DefineBytehmm, okay. So the idea is to keep bugging someone till they commit it? Might get annoying. 8)
00:09:31LloreanGenerally someone just has to take responsibility (and/or blame)
00:11:20DefineByteHey, give me commit rights for the manual and I'll take all the blame (I know, I know).
00:11:30DefineByte;)
00:12:36 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
00:16:09 Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@atheme/developer/desowin)
00:21:47 Quit Sync_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:25:56 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:25:57 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:29:56 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
00:31:20 Join Erlend^SE [0] (i=erlend@ti0020a340-0741.bb.online.no)
00:36:35 Quit bertrik ("bye")
00:44:52 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
00:49:08 Join saratoga [0] (n=62e14d04@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-f68b946e216228ac)
00:49:59saratogaBuschel: any reason you don't use a multimeter for power testing?
00:50:09saratogathey're quite handy, and very inexpensive
00:50:47 Quit DefineByte ("Bye all")
00:52:18 Quit gnoob (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:52:35 Part LinusN
00:54:37 Quit lassesdatamaskin (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:54:56 Nick hannesd_ is now known as hannesd (n=light@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net)
00:55:27 Join gnoob [0] (n=ToolBoy@c-71-201-79-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
00:55:51saratogamarkun: i want your broken WMA files
00:56:56saratogain theory everything >= 16kbps should work perfectly, and less then that should work no worse then ffmpeg
00:57:03 Quit gnoob (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:57:16 Quit Axio_ ()
00:57:59 Join gnoob [0] (n=ToolBoy@c-71-201-79-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
01:00
01:05:27 Quit scorche|w ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:07:04Buschelsaratoga: in fact i have got a multimeter, but i never opened up my ipod. and i thought that there is no easy way to access the battery/board for current measurements.
01:08:16saratogaBuschel: on my Sansa, I can remove the battery and measure current draw via the USB connector
01:08:24saratogathe same might work for the Ipod
01:09:03saratogaassuming you don't mind sacrificing a USB to USB extender cable
01:10:21Buschelso, you completely remove the battery and drive the unit via USB-power?
01:10:21 Join merbanan [0] (n=banan@83.233.242.168)
01:10:59saratogaBuschel: yes
01:11:34 Quit merbanan (Client Quit)
01:11:38 Quit ender` (" Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia.")
01:12:38 Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection)
01:13:11 Quit gnoob (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:15:00 Join gnoob [0] (n=ToolBoy@c-71-201-79-143.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
01:15:48Buschelsaratoga: maybe i try find out how to remove the battery and which cables to chose from the (then) sacrificied USB-adaptor
01:15:54 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
01:16:50 Quit ol_schoola ()
01:18:30 Join ol_schoola [0] (n=meatwad@c-67-167-20-91.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
01:19:41 Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ppp38-229.adsl.forthnet.gr)
01:21:30 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
01:24:43 Join marks_ [0] (n=markshai@c-67-186-189-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
01:24:48 Join lola [0] (n=Miranda@m310e36d0.tmodns.net)
01:25:22 Part marks_
01:25:57 Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection)
01:27:17 Quit Gnu47 ("Going!")
01:28:25 Part lola
01:29:32 Join wurzelnase [0] (n=Miranda@m310e36d0.tmodns.net)
01:33:21wurzelnasenickserv register xDb6aPCsb5ZG
01:33:52advcomp2019wurzelnase, you that wrong
01:33:59advcomp2019did^
01:34:00wurzelnasesorry
01:34:13wurzelnasei am new to this
01:37:10 Join Gnu47 [0] (i=Gnu47@private.ntwk.thita.net)
01:40:00 Quit wurzelnase ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
01:45:01 Join lola [0] (n=Miranda@m710e36d0.tmodns.net)
01:46:29 Nick lola is now known as wurzelnase (n=Miranda@m710e36d0.tmodns.net)
01:48:58 Quit wurzelnase ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
01:50:15 Quit qwedsa_ (Remote closed the connection)
01:50:47 Join qwedsa [0] (n=superman@ip51ccca31.speed.planet.nl)
01:51:08 Quit vmx_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:51:28 Part pixelma
01:52:02 Join DefineByte [0] (n=defineby@bb-87-81-195-5.ukonline.co.uk)
01:55:19 Join vmx_ [0] (n=vmx@dslb-084-056-049-125.pools.arcor-ip.net)
01:56:54 Quit qwedsa (Remote closed the connection)
01:57:40 Join wurzelnase [0] (n=Miranda@m710e36d0.tmodns.net)
01:58:21wurzelnaseare there any devs online who could answer a question about CF mods?
01:59:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:00
02:00:13scorcheyou dont necessarily need a dev for that
02:01:43wurzelnase'k
02:02:02wurzelnasei've converted a 30gb ipod vidoe to use CF
02:02:17 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
02:02:21wurzelnasei used a 16gb a-data 40x
02:02:29 Join qwedsa [0] (n=superman@ip51ccca31.speed.planet.nl)
02:02:33wurzelnaserb and apple firmware works fine
02:02:46wurzelnasewhen i use a transcend 133x
02:02:51wurzelnasei get
02:03:17wurzelnaserockbox boot loader
02:03:18wurzelnaseversion: 2.0
02:03:18wurzelnaseipod version: 0xffffffff
02:03:18DBUGEnqueued KICK wurzelnase
02:03:18wurzelnaseata: -80
02:03:18wurzelnaseno partition found
02:03:29wurzelnaseapple firmware still works
02:03:33 Quit DefineByte (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:04:11 Join DefineByte [0] (n=defineby@bb-87-81-195-5.ukonline.co.uk)
02:04:18wurzelnasei've compiled a custom bootloader and firmware for the iPod video following the iPod mini to CF conversion settings
02:04:29wurzelnasenow i am stuck
02:09:41 Quit DefineByte ("Bye all")
02:17:02 Quit EspeonEefi ("さよなら")
02:17:58 Join Workaphobi2 [0] (n=Jonathan@ool-44c30ab1.dyn.optonline.net)
02:18:04 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:22:39 Quit Buschel ()
02:24:33 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
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02:39:22 Join psycho_maniac [0] (i=psycho_m@ppp513.hk.centurytel.net)
02:40:28 Join karashata [0] (n=Kimi@207.61.207.167)
02:43:04 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
02:43:31waldogot a question a sansa c200 with rockbox on it .. can i delete all the files from the original software ? cause when i connect it to my pc with the player turned off it boots to the original software (via a text screen saying somethin about it beeing a e200 while its a c200) .. when i connect it to the pc while running rockbox rockbox freezes
02:43:57waldoi have to yank out the batt. to get it to reboot
02:44:43Mouser_XWaldo: Hold the power button for 30 seconds to reboot.
02:44:53Mouser_XYou don't need to pull the battery.
02:45:11waldoits faster then waiting 30 secs :)
02:45:23waldois it normal that it freezes ?
02:45:44Mouser_XThe USB support in Rockbox is incomplete, so it's not unexpected.
02:46:03Mouser_XIt *shouldn't* do that, but the fact that it doesn't is not surprising.
02:46:18Mouser_X*does
02:46:25 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:46:45Mouser_XAlso, it's 10-30 seconds.
02:47:13waldo... not helping any will be the fact that i'm using linux ... i've seen it at a friends house that when it connects to a windows box .. rockbox doesn't crash but the mounted partition is not the one linux mounts ... kinda makes no sense :S
02:47:53saratogarockbox doesn't mount anything since USB mode doesn't work
02:48:51waldoyet windows showed an extra drive ... will check it out on my next encounter with a windooz pc
02:49:01saratogaif it showed a disk it wasn't due to rockbox
02:50:33waldoI can't delete the remaining sansa software then ? since i guess its nescesary for usb support ?
02:50:55Mouser_XPretty muhc.
02:50:58Mouser_X*much
02:51:28Mouser_XAll that USB can do in Rockbox right now is to request enough power to charge/run the device.
02:51:39Mouser_XFile transfers (if any form) don't work at all.
02:51:49Mouser_X*(of any form)
02:52:13waldodamn , it's only a GB big, and that too on there ...
02:52:20waldoshall have to kick Doom
02:52:55Mouser_XThere's probably *some* things you can get rid of, but I doubt there's very much.
02:53:33CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
02:53:33*Mouser_X deleted all his DOOM stuff recently to make room for music. He never played DOOM anyway.
02:54:26waldothe sceen is kinda small , the buttons are crap, and the sound is terrible ...
02:54:41waldobut it's impressive to show to geeks
02:54:53waldodifficult to choose :D
02:55:02Mouser_XActually, excluding the wheel, I found that playing GB games on my Sansa worked better than playing them on my Gigabeat.
02:55:27Mouser_XAt least, the buttons were easier to handle.
02:55:39Mouser_XIt was a freaking *TON* slower though.
02:55:53Mouser_X(And this is with audio disabled in Rockboy.)
02:57:00 Quit lee-qid (Connection timed out)
03:00
03:07:03 Quit ol_schoola ()
03:10:34 Join mrkiko [0] (n=pv@adsl-ull-136-203.42-151.net24.it)
03:10:43mrkikoHi all!
03:11:50 Join countrymonkey [0] (n=4b05639a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-39f51ab242784636)
03:11:57 Quit DerDome ("Leaving.")
03:12:25countrymonkeyWhere are human voicefonts obtainable?
03:15:59 Part Workaphobi2
03:21:25 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:21:46 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF557D.dip.t-dialin.net)
03:26:20 Join Ace [0] (n=185105c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-aa1829a3bfa094ab)
03:26:32 Quit Ace (Client Quit)
03:27:25 Join Jbob [0] (n=185105c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-505b7aeb7c1fbb7e)
03:27:46Jbobhey
03:27:53countrymonkeyhey
03:28:42Jbobwondering if the rockbox sansa e200 version supports the 8 gb sansa as well
03:29:05countrymonkeyyes.
03:29:14countrymonkeythe e280v1.
03:29:32countrymonkeyand the e280r.
03:29:46Jbobooh yay! thanks alot
03:30:33countrymonkeydoi tasi mashite. Your welcome.
03:30:34 Quit Jbob (Client Quit)
03:30:58psycho_maniacthanks for staying
03:37:07 Quit zicho (Remote closed the connection)
03:37:15Soaplooking @ rasher.dk/rockbox/ircstats/2007.php">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/ircstats/2007.php , saratoga Mouser_X DataGhost dionoea psycho_maniac (amongst others) should be nice (wo)men and fill out http://rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IrcNicks
03:37:33*Mouser_X has no Wiki account.
03:37:59psycho_maniacI thought i did fill that out
03:38:10psycho_maniaci did fill that out
03:39:26psycho_maniacpsycho_maniac Jerry Lange GMT-6
03:40:49 Join zicho [0] (n=martin@c-3299e355.68-7-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
03:42:28saratogaok edited
03:42:33 Nick Soap is now known as Mouser_Y (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
03:43:14 Nick Mouser_Y is now known as Soap (n=soap@cpe-65-189-128-141.columbus.res.rr.com)
03:45:03 Part zicho ("Leaving")
03:46:48 Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!")
03:48:04 Join Aky [0] (n=opera@123.112.232.131)
03:48:58 Part Aky
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03:50:27 Join Ace [0] (n=185105c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-ab0ca70fa5ecba08)
03:50:37AceHello sorry to bother
03:51:12 Quit waldo ("Konversation terminated!")
03:51:31AceI was trying to install rockbox on my sansa e280 and the utility wont detect it
03:51:32countrymonkeyyes
03:51:53Acedo you know what may be the problem?
03:52:03Mouser_XWhat version of the Sansa do you have?
03:52:08Mouser_XIs it a e280v2?
03:52:16Mouser_X(Check the back of your device.)
03:52:36Mouser_X(Checking the firmware version of the e280 would also work.)
03:52:45Acehmm
03:53:01advcomp2019Ace, check the firmware is it easier
03:53:02Acethe v2s are the ones with the big scroll wheel right?
03:53:19Mouser_XNo, they're supposed to be identifcal.
03:53:25Acewhen i plug it in it says e280
03:53:30Mouser_XIn their outward appearance, anyway.
03:53:36Mouser_XThat's not the firmware version.
03:53:45Mouser_XThus, it doesn't answer my question.
03:53:58Aceoh k one sec
03:54:03psycho_maniaclook on the back
03:54:17Aceah it says e280 on the back
03:54:36zehaha
03:54:50Ace=P sorry lol
03:54:55Mouser_XThat's a good sign, but the firmware version will garantee which version you have.
03:55:16Acehmm..
03:55:37 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp133-3.adsl.forthnet.gr)
03:55:39Acehow can I find out?
03:55:48advcomp2019Ace, setting then info
03:56:01advcomp2019(on the sansa)
03:56:13Acealright
03:57:02AceVersion 01.02.18A it says
03:57:17Aceso I assume thats a v1?
03:57:21advcomp2019Ace, that is a v1
03:57:22karashatayou have a v1, yes
03:57:23 Join Clem2 [0] (n=nclemens@c-68-46-118-229.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
03:57:51Acethats a good sign
03:58:03advcomp2019Ace, do you have it in MTP or MSC mode
03:58:33Acebut then when I plug it into my comp, the utility doesnt detect even if I do it manually
03:58:38Acei treid both
03:58:43Aceits on MSC right now
03:59:11Mouser_XDon't use the auto-method then.
03:59:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:59:20AceI did that
03:59:40AceI set it to the right drive
03:59:57Aceand to the e200 sansa model
03:59:58Mouser_XSo, the utility, sansapatcher, isn't workong for you?
04:00
04:00:14Mouser_XOr, are you trying to use RButility?
04:00:14saratogaAce: he means try the manual install with sansapatcher
04:00:39saratogawhere you drag rockbox onto the player and then run the patcher utility to put the bootloader on
04:00:51Aceohh
04:00:57Acekk Ill try that
04:01:09Acethanks alot~ :D
04:01:30Mouser_XThe auto-installer rarely works, from what I've seen.
04:01:47Mouser_XWhich is why the manual tells you to use the manual method.
04:01:56Mouser_X(2.3.2, IIRC)
04:02:05Ace=/ I see
04:02:16Acewell the manual method is working now
04:03:52psycho_maniacI like doing the manual installation on every player i have.
04:04:17*Mouser_X has never actually used RButil.
04:04:42Mouser_XI've downloaded it a few times, and run it a few times, but I don't think I've ever actually done anything with it.
04:05:10psycho_maniacsame here.
04:05:26 Quit Ace ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
04:06:28 Part Clem2
04:12:10countrymonkeyI use it even though I know how to do the manual method.
04:12:59 Join Alonea [0] (n=chatzill@69.92.201.36)
04:13:03psycho_maniacwhenever i am reading the manual for a new player i have and get to the installation part i instantly skip the "auto installation" part and say to myself "screw that"
04:13:40Aloneaquick question, has album art been added yet?
04:14:16karashataAlonea, yes
04:14:23countrymonkeyHai. Yes. Ja.
04:15:17karashatawas added Nov. 11, 2007, according to the MajorChanges wiki page
04:15:19Aloneaso, I dont have to get anything extra for album art to work for the WPS, correct?
04:16:03karashatanope
04:16:26psycho_maniacthey have to be in bmp format and they have to be the size the wps calls for
04:17:57 Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net)
04:18:07Aloneapsycho_maniac: usually 100x100? and is there a page explaining how the album art works?
04:18:43 Quit wurzelnase ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
04:18:53karashataAlonea: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AlbumArt
04:18:56psycho_maniacyes.
04:19:04karashataexplains fairly nicely how it works currently
04:19:06Aloneathank you
04:19:38karashatano problem
04:20:53 Join moos [0] (i=moos@m237.net81-66-159.noos.fr)
04:21:08mooshi there
04:21:27moosany gigabeat around by any luck?
04:21:33moos+user :)
04:21:51Aloneai am
04:21:55countrymonkeyHi Mustapha
04:22:06Aloneamoos: gigabeat user that is
04:22:12 Quit XavierGr ()
04:22:27moosHi countrymonkey
04:22:48moosAlonea: do you know which combo reset rockbox seetings for gigabeat by any luck?
04:22:58moosdidn't find out on the manual
04:23:55Aloneamoos: aww crap...lemme think
04:24:28Aloneamoos: reset the settings right?
04:24:34moosyup, please
04:24:41moosat start
04:24:42Aloneamoos: wait, there isnt a combo. there is an option to do it under settings
04:25:02Aloneamoos: goto settings, manage settings,, reset settings
04:25:26moosyeah I know but my gigabeat is bugging and don't let me go untile the seeting, that's why the reset seeting at start is for...
04:26:00moosany target have his combo for reseting the seetings at boot procedure...
04:26:47countrymonkeydelete the config.cfg file. works with all targets. the file is under .rockbox.
04:27:13psycho_maniacon the gigabeat when it boots hold the A button to reset settigns
04:27:25mooscountrymonkey:don't have the time either to go until the file...
04:27:31Aloneamoos: ah, ok.
04:27:43moospsycho_maniac:merci, I thought I did try, let's see
04:27:48Aloneamoos: yes, A, I just remembered
04:28:01Aloneamoos: its been too long...
04:28:46moospsycho_maniac: wee, thanks again, and thanks to other anyway :)
04:28:52moos+s
04:29:58mooscountrymonkey: how goes your language voice patch? while we meet
04:30:31countrymonkeyTranslated a few more. Got a lot done on the road trip but there is so many strings.
04:31:39countrymonkeyBut I am beginning to hate the work. I have half a mind to post what I got and chuck the project.
04:31:41mooscountrymonkey: nice. I know the feeling, the file is huge... (I maintain the french lang).
04:32:18countrymonkeyI am aware. But lucky you, all you do is update. I would do the japanese lang, but my comp cannot write catacana and hiragana.
04:32:31moosthe update isn't hurry, take your time...
04:33:02mooscountrymonkey: I reworked the file almost from the scratch a while ago...
04:33:21countrymonkeyAt least all I must do is the bocol translation. (the nynorsk one is already voiceable)
04:33:28 Join DaCapn_ [0] (n=dacapn@c-76-105-220-239.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
04:33:37moosthe french one that is, I know that the language file countain lots of strings (and we do have less know since langv2)
04:33:45moosah ok
04:34:10countrymonkeyWhy did ou rework the french file? And there is a bug I should tell you about.?
04:34:19 Quit DaCapn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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04:34:41 Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:34:41 Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net)
04:34:43countrymonkeyThe name is francais.lang, but it should be français.lang
04:35:25countrymonkeyCould this be fixed?
04:35:58moosbecause that was a bit one "belgium french" due to the previous uodater that was from belgium...then I remade the file to have strings the more pedagogical for noobs...
04:36:08moosyup we canot do so...
04:36:38Aloneaspeaking of resetting the settings, what is the key for the sansa? right arrow or something else?
04:37:10moosAlonea: I even didn't find the thing on manual, I don't now if there is somewhere??
04:37:32countrymonkeymoos: I didn't understand a word about that answering post.
04:37:33Aloneamoos: have no idea
04:37:57karashataAlonea, IIRC it's the select key
04:37:58mooscountrymonkey: one countaining a typo? ;)
04:38:09 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:38:12countrymonkeyand the weird english.
04:38:27moosapologies :)
04:38:54moos04:38 AM here in Paris made the excuse? :)
04:39:13countrymonkeyCould you write it in french? Maybe that would clear things up.
04:39:25Aloneakarashata: er, it didn't work. select is the middle button right?
04:39:38mooscountrymonkey: ??
04:40:15 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
04:40:27karashataAlonea, I'm not sure, I recall seeing someone else mention it earlier though...
04:40:27countrymonkeyThe weird english phrase. I can get it auto-translated.
04:40:27mooscountrymonkey: what should I write in french? this is one english language chanel, even for bad english speakers like me
04:41:29countrymonkey<moos> because that was a bit one "belgium french" due to the previous uodater that was from belgium...then I remade the file to have strings the more pedagogical for noobs...
04:41:45Aloneakarashata: is there another way to reset? like delete the cfg file or something?
04:42:14karashatayeah, deleting the config.cfg file would reset the settings
04:42:26karashatasince they wouldn't exist anymore
04:42:35mooscountrymonkey: s/uodater/updater ??
04:42:48Aloneafound it on the site! says its rec button
04:43:07countrymonkeyJust answer this, why cannot francais.lang be renamed to français.lang?
04:44:35mooscountrymonkey: ah ok, that if I remenber correclty, because the build system don't use unicode strings on filname, but maybe I don't remen ber correct. In all cases we canoy use unicode symboles on the file name.
04:44:59mooss/canoy/can't
04:45:10*moos should go to sleep :)
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04:45:37countrymonkeyI don't think the ç is unicode. I think it is latin extended or something like that.
04:46:44mooscountrymonkey: in all cases I already asked Bagder about this long time ago, and he said me that we can't use the "ç"...
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04:47:25countrymonkeyk.
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04:47:53countrymonkeyI wish Iknew french...
04:48:23zichoLearn.
04:48:39mooscountrymonkey: french is a "wide" language, but that's off topic here ;)
04:48:46countrymonkeyOnly course I know of is pimsleur and that costs too much.
04:48:53moostime to go to sleep a bit, ciao ciao
04:49:23countrymonkeyarivwar
04:49:36*karashata chuckles slightly
04:49:40countrymonkeyI know that much
04:49:45karashatais "au revoir"
04:50:03countrymonkeyYou speak?
04:50:11karashataonly a little
04:50:40*karashata = Canadian, French is mandetory in Ontario up until grade 9
04:50:52countrymonkeyenvy you. Chinese and japanese aren't being very useful in my lfe.
04:51:03karashatathough I've probably forgotten a whole lot of it since I don't really use it
04:51:18karashataand, since this is off topic, that's all I have to say about it
04:51:28countrymonkeyIsn't french the national language of canada?
04:51:41countrymonkeysory. drifting off-topic
04:52:06karashatait's one of two, English of course being the other
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05:11:08Aloneadoes the sansa have the setting for when the headphones are unplugged like gigabeat? I can't find the setting
05:11:37psycho_maniacAlonea: No only the ipods and the gigabeats have this.
05:11:47Aloneapsycho_maniac: awww...
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05:12:27psycho_maniacYes I like this feature on my gigabeat and sometimes forget when i use my sansa.
05:17:47Aloneapsycho_maniac: er, why is windows now wanting to install roxbox media player when I plug it in? do I install the hardware or cancel? I thought I saw somewhere to cancel, but can't find where I read that.
05:18:07psycho_maniaccancle
05:18:39Aloneapsycho_maniac: ok, but how to I get to my player. the sansa isn't showing anywhere that its connected.
05:19:10psycho_maniacwhat usb mode do you have it in on the OF
05:20:50Aloneapsycho_maniac: I had it to the one it said, but when I was trying to figure out the key button for resetting the settings I hit the combo to go into the OF. would that reset that setting?
05:21:44psycho_maniacno i dont think so
05:21:58Aloneai will go check
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05:24:20Aloneapsycho_maniac: that was wierd...ok, so I went back to OF, double checked, reset player, plugged in usb, screen went crazy and went back to OF...
05:24:50Aloneareset again, loads rockbox, plug in USB, not connecting still.
05:25:07psycho_maniac......strange
05:27:18Aloneapsycho_maniac: ok, reinstalling bootloaders...lets see if it now will work properly
05:28:28Aloneapsycho_maniac: ok, I am never getting a usb cable symbol from rockbox.
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05:28:49psycho_maniacshut off the player and then plug it in. try that.
05:29:02countrymonkeymmI say plug it in from the of.
05:29:05Aloneapsycho_maniac: plug it in while player is off?
05:29:25psycho_maniacyes it will automatically turn on and connect to the computer. this is how i do it.
05:29:48Aloneapsycho_maniac: ok, when I go that, it loads the OF, is it supposed to?
05:29:52Alonea*do
05:30:04psycho_maniacyes
05:30:22Aloneapsycho_maniac: so, on the sansa, the USB doesn't ever do it inside of rockbox?
05:30:39advcomp2019Alonea, yea you need to use OF
05:30:44psycho_maniacno
05:31:32Aloneapsycho_maniac: also, on the GB, you can hold down menu and it will use the usb to charge while still being able to use the player. does the sansa have such a key or is basically plugging in your usb inside rockbox the equivalent?
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05:32:13psycho_maniacI am not sure.
05:32:58Alonealemme see if the rockbox screen indicates charging when I do that.
05:33:25psycho_maniacThat info would probably be in the manual
05:35:49Aloneaodd, can the WPS actually override your time settings? dad likes 12 hour, but its showing 24
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05:36:02countrymonkeyyes
05:37:31Aloneapsycho_maniac: ok, I see a "plugged in" icon when I plug in usb in rockbox. ^__^
05:37:56psycho_maniacyes. it should reset the player and then boot in the OF and then into usb mode from the OF
05:39:24Aloneapsycho_maniac: no no no, not what I am talking about. I mean, listening to music while using usb to charge.
05:39:53Aloneapsycho_maniac: on GB, you hold down key, on this, you just plug it in
05:39:57psycho_maniacoh i see. thats good.
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05:40:31Aloneapsycho_maniac: but then if you wanna put on files, then turn it off, plug in, etc.
05:41:12advcomp2019Alonea, you use the select button while plugging it in to use it while charging
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05:41:43countrymonkeyalonea: doshite watasi to advcomp2019 wa hanasimasen ka?
05:42:50Aloneacountrymonkey: I took japanese a lonnnng time ago, and my memory sucks. why are we not doing what?
05:43:14Aloneaadvcomp2019: er, its still connecting to the computer.
05:43:47countrymonkeyMMfixed it. My japanese is a lot more fresh. Thought you might understand better (I am not native to japanese).
05:44:11advcomp2019Alonea, it will always ask the driver on the computer tho
05:44:39Aloneaadvcomp2019: ok. question, how is holding select and plugging it in, different from just plugging it in?
05:44:45Aloneacountrymonkey: I am an american.
05:44:59countrymonkeyAnd the sentence was "Why are you not addressing advcomp2019 or myself?"
05:45:02psycho_maniacjust pluging it in should boot it into usb mode?
05:45:14Aloneapsycho_maniac: no, not at all/
05:46:19advcomp2019Alonea, sometimes it might reboot into OF without holding the select
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05:47:01Aloneaadvcomp2019: *shrugs* hasn't yet. wonder what would cause the event to be different?
05:47:33Aloneacountrymonkey: sorry. did you ask me a question and I did not respond? also, I am trying to figure out the sansa for my dad so he isn't totally lost.
05:48:14countrymonkeyNo. I was just translating the japanese.
05:48:35Aloneacountrymonkey: how did you even know I spoke some japanese?
05:48:37countrymonkeyI know my japanese is horrible, but...
05:48:58countrymonkeyYou said so about 5 or 6 weeks ago.
05:49:16psycho_maniache is a mind reader
05:49:17Aloneacountrymonkey: its ok, mine is terrible too. oh wow. I don't even remember yesterday...
05:49:40countrymonkeykino
05:51:05Aloneayup...christmas break has completely ruined me
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05:51:23hellogoodbyedaily builds have scrolling margin support?
05:51:27countrymonkeyneed more help, give me a holler
05:51:49countrymonkeyyes
05:51:53hellogoodbyeok thanks
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05:53:02psycho_maniacthat was dumb
05:53:08Aloneacountrymonkey: arigatou.
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05:53:23countrymonkeyThe question was ligitimate.
05:53:39countrymonkeydoitasimashite
05:53:58Aloneacountrymonkey: is the OF going to make the music folder hidden everytime I connect?
05:54:01countrymonkeyand you forgot to write gozimasu
05:54:29advcomp2019Alonea, yes
05:54:56Aloneaadvcomp2019: if I rename the folder to something else, it should fix that right?
05:55:04countrymonkeyhai
05:55:38advcomp2019Alonea, yea that will fix it but that will stop you from using the OF tho
05:55:54advcomp2019(using the music in OF)
05:56:14Aloneacountrymonkey: is it ok if I delete the tmp folder?
05:56:28psycho_maniacYou can delete everything but the SYSTEM folder.
05:57:02Aloneaadvcomp2019: that ok. I just need OF to load usb
05:57:34countrymonkeysansa ga arimasen
05:58:29countrymonkeyor should I say moteimasen
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05:58:51Aloneacountrymonkey: heh. your japanese is better than mine.
05:59:13countrymonkeyie josu jarimasen
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05:59:43Aloneaalso, gozaimasu isn't strictly needed, but its better for politeness...I am just laaaazy.
06:00
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06:00:12countrymonkeyI know, and I am just polie.
06:00:32Aloneacountrymonkey: I usually am too, but bah. moteimasen mean not popular?
06:01:12countrymonkeyNo, it means doesn't have.
06:01:22Aloneacountrymonkey: hmm. using dictionary.
06:02:30countrymonkeywow; catacana to canji to hiragana wa wakarimasen
06:03:33Aloneacountrymonkey: I am pretty good at hiragana, need a refresher on katakana, and I know some kanji.
06:04:09countrymonkeyI know 0 catacana, 0 hiragana, and 0 canji. All I know is romagi.
06:04:47Aloneaah. we had to write essays in japanese. no romaji allowed.
06:05:02*scorche coughs
06:05:18Aloneaanyway, brain hurts from japanese.
06:05:18countrymonkeyThat would mean your japanese is etter than mine.
06:06:11psycho_maniacthis seems very offtopic
06:06:19scorchehence the cough :)
06:06:30psycho_maniacthats what i figured so thats why i said it.
06:06:47countrymonkeyIf you think about it... Now, no japanese allowed.
06:06:47Aloneacountrymonkey: heh. and we are OT. hopefully the sansa will cooperate now. *growls at it*
06:08:09Aloneaoh. displaying the clock. is there a way to always have it at the top?
06:08:14countrymonkeyI forgot what problems you have been happening.
06:08:50psycho_maniaci dont think that was offtopic but talking about japanese is.
06:08:55countrymonkeyYes, write the clock wps code on the top line of the wps.
06:09:20Aloneacountrymonkey: ok. now, what about the menu screens? or is it only on the WPS?
06:09:50countrymonkeyonly on the wps
06:10:37countrymonkeyunless you want to play with th sourcecode
06:10:52Aloneacountrymonkey: no...methinks not.
06:11:39psycho_maniacyou can have the clock always on top. but most themes take it off the wps
06:11:41Aloneacountrymonkey: so, are the wps files .wps or .cfg?
06:11:50countrymonkey.wps
06:12:23Aloneacountrymonkey: do I just edit it in notepad?
06:12:32countrymonkeye
06:13:00countrymonkeyI mean yes
06:16:06countrymonkeyDo you know the wps tags?
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06:16:18Aloneacountrymonkey: ok, now to see if it works..
06:17:06countrymonkeyseno
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06:21:40Aloneacountrymonkey: ........i forgot which theme I was using.
06:23:50countrymonkeyswitch it. But ideally you should make your own
06:24:48Aloneacountrymonkey: oh, there is a commented out section for with and without clock. neat
06:25:25countrymonkeyjust edit it.
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06:26:33Aloneacountrymonkey: trying to. its very difficult to read the lines in notepad
06:27:56countrymonkeyTell me what you want and I will cook it up for you.
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06:31:46Aloneacountrymonkey: trying to get it like 3:00PM on wps, cabbie
06:32:10psycho_maniacso your trying to put in your own clock on cabbie on the sansa?
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06:33:50Aloneapsycho_maniac: yeah, cause I don't understand. he has a commented with and without clock, but no clock code. so very confused...OH! I got it, now I just need to figure how to have clock aligned to the far right...
06:34:04psycho_maniac%al
06:34:09psycho_maniacno %ar
06:34:31Aloneapsycho_maniac: ok. I will play with this and see if I can get it right
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06:38:23psycho_maniacAlonea: I got it to work
06:38:33psycho_maniacthis is for the sansa e200 correct?
06:38:37Aloneapsycho_maniac: yeshum.
06:38:46psycho_maniacYeah I got it to work correctly
06:38:56psycho_maniacDid you?
06:38:57Aloneapsycho_maniac: I made mine worse. ^_^
06:39:09psycho_maniacis the progress bar out of wack?
06:39:39Aloneawait a sec...I missed the lower section. *bangs head*
06:39:43psycho_maniacremove the # on the clock line and then remove the blank line below the "## remove the line below ....ect"
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06:40:18psycho_maniacI really like the cabbie theme and would rather see that as the default then the cabbie 2.0
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06:41:56Aloneapsycho_maniac: ok, where it says remove the line below, I remove what exactly?
06:55:28Aloneagah..still can't get it. so very confused.
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06:58:55Aloneaanyone with wps experience? trying to turn the clock on the cabbie theme with no luck. there are instructions in the file, but I still can't get it to display correctly
07:00
07:05:34Aloneathing is, I dont know what the line below is, since it all changes as you make the box wider and stuff...
07:17:34Aloneaok, now the clock is right, but everything else is wrong...
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07:23:47Aloneamethinks I am going to give up. this is too hard for me to figure out right now.
07:26:30UncleOp22Any pointers to BL (boot loader) file(s) for sansa c200 (specifically a c240)? I bricked mine trying to do a fw downgrade. I happen to have two others - can e200tool extract a BL file from a "good" c200? I've been searching for one and coming up dry.
07:27:34advcomp2019UncleOp22, have you tried recovery mode
07:28:37UncleOp22advcomp2019: yes - blank screen. Recovery mode lets me "see" the device, but "e200tool recover" with a generic BL doesn't seem to help/work.
07:29:11UncleOp22Sorry - manufacturer mode doesn't work with the "recover" command.
07:32:27advcomp2019UncleOp22, e200tool should be able to fix that.. the e200 wiki has info on how to use the e200tool.. but you will need c200 files not the e200s
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07:33:40UncleOp22advcomp2019: Agreed, I need the correct (c200) files. That's the sticking point: I have a "right" to them, and two other players that are (so far) not bricked. Any hints about extracting the BL from them?
07:36:21advcomp2019UncleOp22, i am not sure how to get a clean BL from a working one.. you might want to wait for someone else that can help you
07:37:03UncleOp22advcomp2019: Thanks for your thoughts. Perhaps someone else has shared this plight.
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08:04:10Aloneaok, if you have no settings for the radio, what does the autoscan do? scan for every station in the area and saves it to a preset list?
08:06:29advcomp2019Alonea, it will scan for the radio station but you will need to save it after words.. you can look at the manual too
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08:06:55Aloneaok, dad said he tried that, but it didn't work very well. like it did both 88.90 and 88.95, even though they are the same station. been looking in manual. doesn't say a thing about the scan
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09:11:46*linuxstb yawns
09:13:33*pixelma passes the coffee ;)
09:15:17*amiconn wonders whether (when?) we'll see a 'ladies & gentlemen' mail from linuxstb
09:15:48amiconnGiven the bunch of ports startet......
09:15:56amiconn*started
09:18:27linuxstbI'm working on viewports at the moment...
09:23:20markunlinuxstb: nice!
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09:23:43markunmaybe amiconn can take over some of your ports then :P
09:26:27linuxstbCurrent status is that I've implemented viewports in lcd-16bit.c and scroll_engine.c, written a test_viewports plugin which is working, and I am now working on adding support for viewports to the WPS. The main Rockbox code is now using the default full-screen viewport - I haven't even started to think about that code yet...
09:27:31scorchemarkun: as for one of those ports, whenever i get some free time, i will be "taking over" the AV300 port
09:27:45markuncool
09:27:50pixelmamarkun: you also wanted to work on some things... :P
09:27:53linuxstbWould there be any objections to s/DEBUGF/LOGF/ in firmware/mpeg.c and firmware/mpegdata.c to stop it spamming in the sim?
09:28:18*amiconn isn't so sure anymore that viewports are a good idea ;\
09:28:32markunpixelma: damn, I hoped you wouldn't mention it ;)
09:28:49linuxstbamiconn: Now you mention it... ;)
09:28:54linuxstbWhat's the problem?
09:30:53amiconnNah
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09:31:20amiconnI know that viewports are needed, but otoh they will open the door for even more useless graphical crap
09:31:49amiconnLike this pictureflow plugin, which just throws strange messages here...
09:32:14*Mouser_X doesn't use AA or the DB, and thus pictureflow = ?
09:33:21amiconnI tried to start it, just to see what happens. First it complained about the database not being initialised, so I did that. Then it complained about no album. No albums??? Sure there are many albums on my players...
09:34:21amiconnlinuxstb: regarding the ports - the logikdax would be a really interesting target for me, if it had either more flash storage or a card slot...
09:38:39linuxstbamiconn: I agree, the storage is a limitation - but the main interest for me is the DAB, and I would still carry a HD player for music.
09:39:02linuxstbThe Cowon D2 uses (I think) a similar DAB chipset, but that's a touchscreen...
09:39:18linuxstbIt's also very expensive for what it is...
09:40:04amiconnBlargh, touch screen
09:40:12linuxstbMy view as well.
09:40:30pixelmawasn't DAB also only a recent addition on the D2 (the earlier models had FM)?
09:40:53linuxstbYes, afaik only the UK model has DAB (or at least, it was introduced to the UK first).
09:41:04amiconnI wonder why so many dap manufacturers still use fm tuners when there is dab, and audio broadcast is planned to be fully digital by 2010
09:41:29pixelmabut interestingly they have a MMC/SD slot...
09:41:30linuxstbGermany is switching off the FM transmitters?
09:41:38amiconn(at least in europe - not sure about us or other places)
09:42:05linuxstbI haven't heard of an analogue FM switchoff in the UK at least...
09:42:25linuxstbBut TV is going digital-only by 2012.
09:43:33amiconnWell, terrestrial (?) TV is already digital-only in some federal states in Germany
09:43:47amiconnCable and satellite are still mixed
09:44:21linuxstbWhat surprises me more is that TVs are still being sold without DVB-T tuners...
09:44:25amiconnNot sure whether analogue FM will be switched off, but in fact I would expect it to...
09:46:28amiconnWell, in germany you can get TVs with or without DVB-T tuners. And to me it makes a lot of sense. Only a small percentage of households needs terrestrial reception. And DVB-T quality is worse than analogue, at least with the bitrates used in germany
09:46:54amiconnDVB-C and DVB-S make a lot more sense to me.
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10:21:36scorchebardia: in the topic of #rockbox-community: "...but never #rockbox-scares-me-I'll-ask-here!" ;)
10:23:22bardiai'm curious about the difference in audio playback quality between the sansa c200 and e200, using rockbox specifically. anyone have experience with both? i'm not too interested in the e200's video capabilities but if the digital audio or FM playback is better then i'd definately go for it. also, the e200 seems more brickproof than the c200, is that true?
10:24:38linuxstbI don't own either, but afaik they both have the same recovery/manufacturer modes, so are equally brickproof.
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10:26:38amiconnThey also use the (effectively) same cpu, dac and fm tuner, so I'd expect the audio quality to be the same
10:27:44amiconnThat is, unless there's bad wiring of the audio circuit in one of them.
10:28:28*linuxstb pings Nico_P, or anyone that understands the wps parser...
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10:37:28Lloreanamiconn: The c200 is slightly better I think
10:37:37LloreanI've noticed less noise when the flash is reading on the c200 than e200
10:37:50LloreanBut I haven't specifically looked for comparison, I just haven't noticed noise on the c200 that I have on the e200.
10:38:15amiconnSo there's bad wiring on both...
10:38:47LloreanThere's bad wiring on the e200. I don't know about the c200, as I said, haven't noticed anything yet, but haven't listened for it specifically
10:39:14amiconnWell, pixelma can clearly hear the noise when inserting a microsd card into her c200
10:39:31LloreanAh, haven't tried microsd cards really.
10:39:53pixelmabut I also haven't noticed noise during rebuffer, but I usually listen at low volumes
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10:40:56LloreanLow volumes were when it was more noticeable iirc.
10:41:02LloreanThe noise itself seemed to be independent of the volume level.
10:41:17LloreanBut on the e200 I only noticed it with some in-ear headphones I had.
10:43:58bardiaLlorean: and you also tried those same in-ear headphones on the c200? that would be my listening setup, in-ear buds and low volume level
10:44:31Lloreanbardia: No, I've only used over-ear headphones with the c200 so far. I've heard the noise with these phones, but *only* when specifically looking for it, never in casual listening, as it's much more faint.
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10:45:28amiconnI wonder what the dap manufacturers are doing
10:45:46Llorean"How cheap can we make this thing and still convince people to buy it?"
10:45:54amiconnThe much older ondio doesn't produce nasty noises due to flash access
10:46:18amiconnLlorean: s/cheap/crappy/
10:46:21*Mouser_X wonders why the Gigabeat has a 300 mhz CPU, after readong Llorean's idea...
10:46:34Mouser_X*reading
10:47:19LloreanMouser_X: Considering how overpowered it is for what the OF asks of the hardware, I can only assume that Toshiba got some sort of deal on 'em.
10:47:31Mouser_XHeh.
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10:47:54Mouser_XI guess so. Maybe they planned on Rockbox being ported to it eventually? :P
10:48:00linuxstbOr maybe they had bigger plans for the OF, but abandoned Linux in favour of CE...
10:48:35Mouser_XMore like (IMO), the increase in muz was due to using Windows...
10:48:42Mouser_X*mhz
10:48:51Mouser_X*likely
10:49:32amiconnIn fact unpleasant noises in mp3 players aren't new. I remember the continuous background noise in archos OF on recorders, but that wasn't a hardware design mistake...
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10:50:50amiconnRockbox solved that problem
10:51:24*amiconn still wonders how the archos firmware managed to produce that background noise, given the fact that the archos recorders are hwcodec...
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10:52:18Lloreanamiconn: The H100 series has a nice, constant hiss that drives me nuts at low volumes.
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10:52:50LloreanThat is one significant advantage the Toshiba has over the H100 for me, I can listen at 1db above "mute" and it sounds pretty much fine still.
10:53:01amiconnThe hiss seems to come from the headphone amplifier. I didn't notice it in setups where the line out was used
10:53:57LloreanHm
10:54:05pixelmaLlorean: re. "how cheap"... ever tried the c200's headphones that comes with it? ;)
10:54:14pixelma*come
10:54:26LloreanI didn't even look at the headphones that came with it.
10:54:46LloreanI can't even remember if mine had them.
10:54:50LloreanIt was a refurbished unit
10:55:06pixelmadon't bother, those must be the cheapest of the cheap...
10:55:17LloreanHahaha
10:55:36LloreanMy H100 came with Sennheiser Mx400s which really weren't all that bad for really cheap earbuds.
10:55:44pixelmabut in case you want a BoS experience... :P
10:56:11amiconnpixelma: Perfect match for rockbox then ;)
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11:10:44bertrikjhMikeS: hi, you responded to a bug i posted in the tracker, but I don't quite understand what you mean. Can you explain it a bit more?
11:11:06bertrikI'm talking about FS #8208, I don't know what you mean by wrapping noise
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11:20:13linuxstbbertrik: You may be too early for him - his local time is about 6am...
11:20:35bertrikyes, I just realised that
11:20:39LloreanCloser to 4, if I recall he's in my time zone.
11:20:57*Llorean should really head to sleep.
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11:54:12jhMikeSbertrik: I'm here now. Wrapping noise is when samples values are too large for the data type and wrap to a smaller value instead of being clipped at max.
11:54:53bertrikah thanks and good morning
11:55:26bertrikso is there a fix for this or is it a fundamental problem?
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11:55:56jhMikeSit seems it could be a chip defect since retailos has it even worse
11:57:14jhMikeStry recording something loud and even the ADC seems to wrap and not clip
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11:57:28bertrikhmm, on my player I hear it on rockbox, but not with the OF
11:58:05jhMikeSI tried the file you provided and OF was really bad esp. at lower volume
11:59:12bertrikIf i look at the waveform it's almost as if some signal value X is decoded as -X and vice versa
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12:00:05jhMikeSit appears to just be overflow to me
12:01:21bertrikbut I didn't hear distortion on a 0-dB sine wave
12:02:02jhMikeScould be frequency dependent as well as volume
12:02:40jhMikeSthe wrap seems to occur somewhere in hardware afaict atm
12:03:07bertrikI hear a crackle at specific points in time in the music, but I haven't checked if it's always at the exact moment, perhaps that's something for me to check next
12:03:44jhMikeSI found it quite repeatable on my unit with both firmwares
12:05:16bertriki fear it will be very hard/impossible to fix if it's in hardware
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12:07:24bertrikI think I'll try some more sinewaves or some trapezoids with varying frequency (maybe even a sweep)
12:09:04amiconnIf full-range or near-full-range sines don't show it, perhaps low-volume sines will?
12:13:06bertrikI don't see why low-volume sines would, but it's worth a try
12:13:21jhMikeShmmm...had some EQ on in retailos and it's much less when turned off. It's possible it's because of DAC gain as that's maxed before headphone gain in the driver.
12:18:50jhMikeShmmm...using .5dB of precut seems to kill it too
12:19:02jhMikeSkill = stop the click :)
12:20:34bertrikwow, which pre-cut, in the equalizer?
12:23:40jhMikeSyeah, just all bands 0 with precut
12:26:11*bertrik is listening
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12:30:40bertrikhmmm, seems to be greatly reduced at -0.5 dB indeed
12:31:06bertrik(or maybe even gone, it's a bit hard to tell because the click coincides with the bass/snare kick)
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12:32:45bertrikpre-cut is just basically an attenuation before the equalizer, right?
12:33:30jhMikeSyes but no bands are applied, just the gain in this case. this combo of things influencing it is rather odd.
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13:38:13linuxstbNico_P: (if you read the logs) I could do with some help with the wps parser...
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13:51:10linuxstbIf anyone is interested, my current work-in-progress for viewports is here - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/viewports-v1.diff
13:51:52linuxstbIt only works on colour targets without a remote, and there is a test plugin (test_viewports) and the first attempt at adding a %V|x|y|width|height|fg|bg| tag to the WPS.
13:53:06linuxstbThere is a bug in the WPS parsing which means that the first line in a viewport isn't being read - i.e. the first line after a %V tag. All lines in the WPS up to the first %V go in the default (full-screen) viewport, which means existing WPSs will work as-is.
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14:16:15Buschelamiconn: you were right when doubting that power consumption is non-linear with CPU clock on PP5022. seems like it was a mismeasurement by myself...
14:17:50Buschelsoap: you there?
14:20:24Buschelsoap: if you come along I am of course interested in your runtime results
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14:26:56hcsI think I have another GPIO bit to report.
14:27:00hcs(for ipod color)
14:27:45hcsGPIO_C goes from 36 to 32 when I plug it into this 3rd party charger
14:28:01hcsso I take it that bit 2 is "discharging" or some such
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14:31:08hcsno idea where I would start to get that recognized, though
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14:32:49amiconnhcs: C2 is firewire power. That's known (but not yet used)
14:33:17amiconnIt makes sense for an external charger to provide firewire power instead of usb power
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14:34:46hcsamiconn: ok, so should I be able to use it for the charging detection as well as the USB?
14:35:36amiconnIn fact you should only use firewire power for charger detection, as usb power is handled separately
14:37:05amiconnBtw, C2 being firewire power applies to 4th gen grayscale, color, and the minis
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14:39:42hcsamiconn: ok, so what I think needs changing is charger_inserted() in power-ipod.c
14:40:47hcsso are the GPIO bits generally true on 0?
14:45:11amiconnno
14:46:00amiconnThe logic is chosen in a way to minimize necessary hardware
14:46:45hcsengineering, gotcha
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14:51:20*linuxstb now has working viewports in the WPS - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/viewport1.html
14:51:53rasher\o/
14:52:28linuxstbUpdated patch here - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/viewports-v2.diff
14:52:44linuxstb(same limitations as earlier - only colour targets without a remote...)
14:52:44amiconnThose screenshots look funny
14:53:02linuxstbIn what way?
14:53:17amiconnSo none of my most used targets are covered...
14:53:47linuxstbMy approach is to finalise the API using lcd-16bit.c first, then I'll adapt the other drivers. A remote driver will be next.
14:54:05markunlinuxstb: looks really good
14:54:31markunif only I would add multi font support.. :)
14:56:08linuxstbDo you know what needs doing for multi font support?
14:56:55markunI had some ideas, but I'm not sure how well it will work until I implement it I guess
14:58:35amiconnI'd think the most important part of 'multi' font support will be supporting different fonts on main & remote
14:59:07amiconnDifferent fonts on one screen will be really tricky, as it would break the line concept
14:59:23linuxstbWith viewports, you can have one font per viewport.
14:59:29amiconnWell, with viewport, fonts could be assigned per viewport, I guess
14:59:34markun:)
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14:59:47amiconnI dunno whether that makes much sense though
14:59:53linuxstbSee my first screenshot - that has the system font and the UI font scrolling on the same screen.
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15:00:00*amiconn wants to add algorithmic emboldening though
15:00:49markunamiconn: I used this tool to make a bold version of the 9+18x18 font: http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA013651/freeSoftware/mkbold-mkitalic.html
15:01:21amiconnIt's not exactly high priority stuff for me, but it might come as an extra if my font drawing optimisation ideas will ever work out
15:01:30rayjis it just me or is tagging files for rockbox a major pain
15:01:41markunrayj: just you ;)
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15:02:05markundo you need to tag the files differently for rockbox than for other players?
15:03:42markunlinuxstb: did you specify some padding inside the viewports?
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15:04:00rayjok im running 'nix using easytag 2.1.4 i have files tagged but rockbox sometimes jumbles them orsays untagged
15:04:13amiconnlinuxstb: What's the binsize impact so far?
15:04:35BigBambiThat is very cool
15:05:44rayjwhen i boot OF they sometimes read them fine & others are marked untagged
15:06:01rayjthe untagged are not the same as RB
15:06:07markunweird
15:06:21markunmaybe you need to rebuild the rockbox database
15:06:48rayjive tried that even removed database files from RB
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15:06:52markuncan you play one of the files which should be taged and check the id3 info?
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15:07:49markunor maybe it's a problem with id3v1 and id3v2 both being present and rockbox using a different one than the OF?
15:07:51rayjyes & it will show artist on some files but not track name
15:08:19markundo you have such a file for me?
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15:08:59rayjmarkun you asking me?
15:09:03markunyes
15:09:23linuxstbamiconn: I haven't looked yet... I'm just working with the sim. But I'll do some builds now to see.
15:09:27rayji have no site for you to download from
15:09:41markunrayj: try sending it over IRC
15:09:43linuxstbmarkun: No, there's no padding (although xmargin and ymargin are still present - for now)
15:10:29markunlinuxstb: I don't really think padding is needed (as you could just make the viewport smaller with the same effect, right?)
15:11:33markunlinuxstb: can you still set a backdrop and have the viewport backgrounds transparant?
15:11:54linuxstbAt the moment, the backdrop is global, not an attribute of the viewport.
15:12:42markunif the viewports are transparent that's no problem
15:12:49linuxstbYes, they are.
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15:41:00linuxstbamiconn: For the ipod color, rockbox.bin has increased by 2544 bytes...
15:41:42jottwho is in charge of the font subsystem? i did some code for anti-aliased font rendering and want some review/discussion before posting it to the tracker...
15:42:22linuxstbI think lots of people would be interested in discussing that...
15:42:40markunjott: do you have some screenshots?
15:43:01jottmarkun: hold on..
15:44:08jotthttp://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8755/aafontxb4.png
15:44:26markunnice
15:44:52linuxstbjott: Have you done any benchmarks to compare the speed with the current rendering?
15:44:54jottmy current code needs minimal changes and is as fast as the 1-bit code..
15:45:07markunjott: what happens with a backdrop?
15:45:13jottmarkun: it's blended
15:46:01markunjott: can you upload your patch?
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15:46:19jottmarkun: yes in a moment..
15:47:06jottit currently needs a qt4 gui to create 4-bit bitmap fonts from system fonts
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15:47:25jottso the only impact atm would be the increased font size
15:48:03*markun would prefer a command line tool
15:48:24Galoisif it's just bitmaps then it means you could do subpixel antialiasing as well, right?
15:48:44markunjott: did you test how a 2-bit bitmap looks?
15:49:36jottmarkun: no, not yet
15:50:19markunjott: here are some samples with 2-bit and 4-bit http://www.atpm.com/5.05/smoothtype.shtml
15:50:24jottGalois: well subpixel would need a different blending function and probably higher depth fonts
15:50:29jottmarkun: http://sse2.net/rb/rockbox-aa-font.patch
15:51:13jottah, and it's color target only atm
15:51:43jotti don't know how good aa fonts would look on low dpi grayscale displays...
15:53:14Galoisappearance is a matter of opinion. I think regular antialiasing looks worse.
15:53:40Galoisbut I would use subpixel antialiasing
15:54:49markunGalois: how should that work? I don't understand your "if it's just bitmaps.." statement
15:54:51jottmarkun: hmm yes 2-bit does not look that bad, but 4-bit still look alot better imho... but my code would actually not need much changes to support both
15:56:16Galoiswell, presumably the qt gui tool or whatever can make an alpha channel for each color
15:56:50markunGalois: the bitmap itself is the alpha channel
15:57:13Galoisfine, so make three bitmaps
15:57:40markunah, you mean specific for the colour LCD's subpixels?
15:57:56Galoisright, and it would have to match the RGB/BGR order of the display
15:58:22markunyes, and if we ever want to support screen rotation it wouldn't work of course
15:58:32Galoisso then you add three more for VRGB etc.
15:59:10jottGalois: i don't think this approach would make sense. there are probably better solutions for storing sub-pixel hints..
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15:59:37jottmarkun: http://sse2.net/rb/convttf-qt.tar.gz here is a simple tool to create the fnt files.
15:59:40Galoishey, I don't know anything about fonts, just how to use them
15:59:42hcsamiconn: Ok, I have a patch that seems to do the proper charging behavior on my color, and I have it set for the same thing with the 4G and minis
15:59:50markunjott: I would first need to compile QT...
16:00
16:00:07jottmarkun: :/.. i'll put some fonts there :)
16:00:18hcsamiconn: could you maybe take a look at my patch or provide an opinion as to whether I should commit?
16:01:08jottmarkun: http://sse2.net/rb/fonts/
16:02:25jotti guess a pure freetype based converter would be good.. but qt makes things so easy :)
16:02:38hcsamiconn (or anyone else who wants to look at firewire charging status): http://pastebin.ca/837304
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16:04:38Galoisfontchooser.h:27:28: error: ui_fontchooser.h: No such file or directory
16:04:40Galoisis this normal?
16:05:22jottGalois: do you use the qt4 qmake (like qmake-qt4)?
16:07:13Galoisnever mind, I'll figure it out
16:08:36Galoisnow it works for me, thanks
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16:32:31 Join IRCMonkey [0] (n=chatzill@75-162-93-220.slkc.qwest.net)
16:32:46IRCMonkeyhello?
16:33:25hcshi
16:33:33IRCMonkeyi am so mad! rockbox refuses to reconize my ipod 60gb video
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16:33:52IRCMonkeyand i hate i tunes
16:35:12IRCMonkeythwarted at every turn, apple piece of crap! i try manual, i try auto. all i get is no ipos found.
16:35:34IRCMonkeyplease help thanx.
16:36:56linuxstbDoes your ipod currently work normally - i.e. the Apple firmware works fine?
16:36:57rvvs89IRCMonkey: ipodpatcher isn't recognising your iPod?
16:37:47IRCMonkeyyes, it is not reconizing my ipod at all, nor the automatic installation utility
16:38:11IRCMonkeyi dont get it.
16:38:28linuxstbWhat about my question?
16:38:29rvvs89And what about what linuxstb asked?
16:38:36rvvs89Meh, I'll leave it to you
16:38:46IRCMonkeyoh yes the apple firmware works fine.
16:38:55linuxstbWhat OS are you running on your PC?
16:39:12IRCMonkey98se
16:39:30linuxstbipodpatcher requires a NT version of Windows...
16:39:43linuxstbi.e. NT/2000/XP
16:39:51IRCMonkeyok thats a big help
16:40:18IRCMonkeythankyou much, was that documented?
16:40:22linuxstbDo you have access to other Windows machines?
16:40:27linuxstbPossibly not...
16:40:55linuxstbBut I think you're about the 3rd win98 user who's complained in the last 18 months...
16:40:58IRCMonkeyugh i was seeing red. i cant stand itunes and xp just sucks on my hardware
16:41:42hcsLinux, maybe :)
16:42:02IRCMonkeyok so after useing the updater in xp i can do every thing else in 98 right?
16:42:20linuxstbAssuming you can access your ipod as an external drive, then yes.
16:42:30IRCMonkeypeice of cake.
16:42:46IRCMonkeyno xp no itunes ill be siten pretty.
16:43:27IRCMonkeyi swear ipods are just a fashion statment. an expensive brick if you ask me
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16:43:39webguest66hi
16:43:48linuxstbIRCMonkey: With Rockbox they become quite usable...
16:44:12webguest66how can i convert AVI to mpeg?
16:44:13*linuxstb likes webguest66's IP address... ;)
16:44:15IRCMonkeyi got 4gigs of mp3s i would have to re-encode, aparantly ipod doesnt like certain encoders.
16:44:43webguest66for sandisk e250
16:44:46IRCMonkeymmm vlc?
16:45:15stripwaxhuh?
16:45:28linuxstbstripwax: Maybe older ipods?
16:45:57IRCMonkeyweb, the docs on the videoplugin page mentions you can use vlc player to convert video
16:46:07linuxstbIIRC, earlier versions of Apple's firmware choked with VBR files that had large variations in bitrate. Not sure if that's fixed on all devices.
16:46:30IRCMonkeyto proper resolutions, vlc plays avi.
16:46:42webguest66mybe their is a guide for this?
16:47:19stripwaxjott - is the alpha-blended font rendering really as fast as the 1-bit version? how is that?#
16:47:32stripwaxlinuxstb - wow, good to know.
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16:48:01IRCMonkeyhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxExtras#MPEG_movies
16:48:26IRCMonkeyhere web
16:48:34*stripwax tries out FS# 8379
16:48:43jottstripwax: it just needs just one multiplication (per pixel), the rest is bit-manipulation.
16:49:36webguest66thank you
16:49:40stripwaxjott - can it be applied easily to the gradient bar also? I was looking at blending the selection bar with the background but it seemed quite a bit slower..
16:51:03linuxstbjott: If there is one multiplication per pixel, how can it be the same speed?
16:52:13IRCMonkeywell actullay they are crb, it's not documentated by apple seems
16:52:50IRCMonkeyany mp3 encoded with lame how ever works.
16:53:53IRCMonkeythese others seem not to work., ipod wont boot when loaded thru elphpod, and itunes says there incompatable
16:54:09IRCMonkeyincompatable mp3s, what a farce.
16:54:29 Quit webguest66 ("CGI:IRC")
16:55:31hcsIRCMonkey: odd tags, maybe?
16:55:34jottlinuxstb: i guess because the other code path could be optimized
16:56:00IRCMonkeyoff topic, type progman in the run... win3.11 lurks still in xp
16:56:13IRCMonkeywell seya
16:57:36jottstripwax: currently DRMODE_SOLID, _FG, _SOLID|_INVERSEVID, _FG|_INVERSEVID are supported
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16:58:21MikeDKhi
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16:59:06MikeDKjust wanna ask if anyone know if theres plans for driver for the 3rd gen nano yet?
16:59:35stripwaxnone
16:59:36MikeDKups sry got some reading to do i see
17:00
17:00:56stripwaxSomeone suggested they might be able to pull the flash out of the 2g/3g nano or 6g classic and plug it into a reader, to try and figure out how the firmware is encrypted. I don't think anyone has done that yet
17:14:43UncleOp22A re-post from much earlier this morning: Any pointers to BL (boot loader) file(s) for sansa c200 (specifically a c240)? I bricked mine trying to do a firmware downgrade. I happen to have two others - can e200tool extract a BL file from a "good" c200? I've been searching for one and coming up dry.
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17:22:29linuxstbUncleOp22: If you have a second c200, you can probably just copy the firmware partition with dd
17:22:58linuxstbThe firmware partition contains the bootloader and main firmware, and is (e.g.) /dev/sda2
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17:41:36*linuxstb is experimenting with WPSs - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/jclix-viewports.png
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17:43:08webguest59Have any ipod users here sucesfully used a hdd > 80g?
17:44:49linuxstbI can't remember anyone mentioning it, but if you can find one that physically fits, it should work...
17:45:46webguest59Thanks. There are a few comercially available. I'll probably give it a try.
17:50:41MikeDKis there a way to learn to help with the rockbox-drivers for a newbie?
17:51:44linuxstbWhat do you mean by "rockbox-drivers" ?
17:52:20MikeDKwell waht i mean, is helping with developing?
17:52:35MikeDKor is this closed land for newbies :-9
17:53:14linuxstbEveryone started as a newbie... You'll need to learn C programming.
17:56:28MikeDKooh okay, got some guides for that, ille look into it, and hopefully learn it fast :-) just got my old mini 6GB trashed, it was total as apple sayd, so i got a new instead a nano 8GB 3rd gen
17:56:59MikeDKfrom the insurance
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17:57:11linuxstbThat's a different issue altogether...
17:59:07rasherlinuxstb: commit commit commit
17:59:10MikeDKyup i know, thats why ill like to get in and help, dont know how many devs there is
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17:59:22linuxstbMikeDK: There are none afaik.
17:59:22markunlinuxstb: looks good! what's missing?
17:59:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:59:44rasherI'm going to guess gray/mono displays and remotes
17:59:46MikeDKheh ok
17:59:47linuxstbCurrently it's only implemented in lcd-16bit.c - I need to implement it in all the other drivers.
17:59:55linuxstbrasher: Exactly...
18:00
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18:05:20conandohello, it's my first time here.. i just installed rockbox on my sansa e260 and have used rockbox since it came out on my good old archos 6gb ;)
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18:07:08linuxstbThat is old...
18:07:25conandosince the archos is quite limited i would never have guessed how far rockbox already evolved on the other platforms - really great work! .. as i'm a somewhat experienced c/c++ coder myself and especially interested in the video aspect of my new player (or these players in general) i just wanted to ask if the mpegplayer plugin devs hang around here too...
18:07:44conandoor if i'd be better of contacting them otherwise?
18:08:42linuxstbjhMikeS is the main mpegplayer dev - he's around here a lot.
18:08:47conandoyeah it is.. my girlfriend had pity with me always carying this "brick" around so she gave me the sansa as a xmas gift ;)
18:09:05conandoah, cool - thanks for the info!
18:11:26conandoi guess the main priority with rockbox in general is playing audio files/formats and video is kind of lower priority... i think mpegplayer is quite useful but i'm curious if these little players aren't capable of playing other formats as well (of course not cpu hungry stuff like h.264 etc.)
18:13:29 Quit Arathis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:14:24linuxstbGiven that the devices can't decode large (i.e. high resolution) files and scale on the fly, the user has to re-encode to the LCD size anyway, so there's not much motivation to support a wide range of codecs.
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18:15:26conandoof course you're right.. but the sansas original firmware can (only) play mjpeg (in quicktime containers) .. of course the files are larger than mpeg1/mpeg2.. but the quality is considerably better
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18:15:55conandoespecially since you have to use quite a low bitrate for mpeg2 because of the limited decoding power
18:16:18linuxstbHave you experimented with higher bitrate mpeg2?
18:16:33linuxstbi.e. to the point where the quality matches the mjpeg files?
18:16:56conandoyes i have.. but that basically becomes unplayable because to many frames are skipped
18:17:19linuxstbWhat encoder are you using?
18:17:34conandoand since i haven't looked that deeply yet into the mpegplayer sources i don't know if there's much room for optimization perhaps.. or if it's already fairly optimized...
18:17:56linuxstbThere's already been quite a lot of optimisation, but I'm sure there is room for more...
18:18:21BigBambi_conando: hat framerate does the OF do?
18:18:24BigBambi_*what
18:18:41conandomencoder, ffmpeg .. of course multipass.. also tried cinemacraft (currently the best quality mpeg2 software encoder imho) .. the quality is ok but it get's blocky ;)
18:19:42conandobambi on my e260 with the newest official firmware i can get at least 25 fps mjpg b 224x128 without any stuttering or frameskips...
18:20:04BigBambi_ok
18:20:44linuxstbconando: I would be curious to know how other codecs would perform in Rockbox - so if you're bored...
18:20:52conandowith the current official rockbox build and an cinemacraft 3pass encoded mpeg2 224x128 pix i get 25 fps constantly only when dropping the avg bitrate to something around 400-450 kbit
18:21:18linuxstbWhat kind of source files are you using?
18:21:23conandoyeah.. i'm curious too ;) that's why i wanted to try that out...
18:21:47conandocurrently the highdef trailers from apple (of course scaled down ;)
18:22:29conandoof course the image quality wouldn't matter that much with sth like episodes of the simpsons/south park etc.
18:22:41*jhMikeS 's here nowish
18:23:22conandoi had a look at some of the specs of the portalplayer thats used in the sansa and there it says it does hardware mjpeg decoding.. at least i understood it that way... so i guess they use that in the OF
18:23:31conandohi jhMikeS :)
18:23:38jhMikeShello
18:24:05linuxstbconando: Are you sure about that? Quite often, these "product briefs" just list what the software development kit has libraries for...
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18:24:33conandono i'm not sure.. of course it could be a devkit library "only".. you're right
18:24:38*jhMikeS never seemed to spot any such special DSP code in the disassemblies
18:25:48conandooh ok.. so it's soft only as well.. as mjpeg isn't that cpu heavy to begin with.. i guess it should be possible to decode movs encoded for the OF with nearly the same quality...
18:25:51jhMikeSmpjpg has no motion compensation or anything. you could encode MPEG with only I-frames which basically is that
18:26:33conandoof course you're right.. but i guessed that would be too "heavy" for mpegplayer.. but you're right, i didn't yet try that...
18:26:41hcswhen the JPEG invades the MPEG
18:26:53linuxstbWhat sort of bitrate are your mjpeg files created for the Sansa firmware?
18:27:42linuxstbjhMikeS: Do you think there's much room left for optimisation in libmpeg2 itself?
18:27:48conandothey have eg. 50-60mb for a short 2min 40sec trailer... the corresponding "skip free" mpeg2 for rockbox' mpegplayer has roughly 10mb ;)
18:28:58conandothere isn't yet any jpeg decoding code in the official rockbox tree, right?
18:29:03 Quit Mathiasdm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:29:31linuxstbSure, it's been there since the Archos-only days.
18:29:54conandoah ok..i only saw all those countless "please add jpeg viewing" threads
18:30:19linuxstbWas that related to JPEG album art?
18:30:30conandoof course ;)
18:30:40linuxstbRockbox doesn't support that - just a standalone viewer for .jpg files.
18:31:13conandoah i see.. so designwise it wouldl be somehow hard to share that code somehow?
18:31:32jhMikeSlinuxstb: I think some simplification could help with re: to removing the convert layer. It should be pretty efficient. Perhaps in the parsing aspect.
18:32:13linuxstbcanando: It currently runs as a plugin, so to use it with album art the decoder would need to be moved into the core.
18:32:31conandoguess i first have to look much deeper into the rockbox codebase to begin with.. understand what's there
18:32:37linuxstb(as other plugins may be running when Rockbox needs to read the album art).
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18:33:43conandoyeah that's what i meant.. but somehow it would be bad or complicated to move it to the core?
18:35:32wurzelnasehello ...
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18:36:55jhMikeSlinuxstb: maybe slice.c as well. that hasn't gotten alot of attention yet.
18:37:12conandoanother thing (at least on the sansa) is the screen refresh in mpegplayer.. at least in fast action scenes it's quite noticeably.. sort of a retrace effect.. i already read something about that in the wiki but i don't remember where :(
18:37:37conandoi'm not sure if this is an mpegplayer only issue or something general with the sansa lcd code...
18:39:00jhMikeSThere's no wait for vertical blanking interval code. It needs more R-E to figure that out.
18:39:06wurzelnasei have a question about CF cards
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18:40:07conandook, that's what i tought already.. hm well.. however this will turn out it will unfortunately not improve the max fps but lower it a bit :/
18:41:00jhMikeSmmmm...I don't know because I think the refresh is a good deal faster than any mpeg framerate
18:41:16conandojhMikeS one personal question (if i may ask ;o) .. on what player are you running rockbox yourself?
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18:41:54jhMikeSconando: 7 different kinds...hopefully 8 soon
18:42:39conandowhile that is right @ refresh from my personal gfx coding experience it always adds some sort of delay because you have to wait for the refresh.. so while it's not a night and day difference in the end it can very well lower the max fps
18:43:12conandohehe oh :) so i guess there's no "regular" dev with only one or two players out there ;)
18:43:24linuxstbjhMikeS: What's #8?
18:43:31jhMikeSit should compensate since the timing system uses negative feedback
18:43:42jhMikeSlinuxstb: the gigabeat S
18:44:59conandosounds nice :)
18:45:28conandofrom the fps table in the wiki it seems the gigabeat is currently the best target device for playing videos with rockbox
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18:47:12jhMikeSconando: not just FPS but resolution so it's by far the best atm
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18:50:56linuxstbconando: That's the Gigabeat F/X series. The Gigabeat S is about twice as fast as that...
18:51:28linuxstb(probably more, given it has a vector FPU...)
18:52:04conandoit didn't say exactly which model so i assumed it would be the s... twice as fast? wow.. guess i have to sell my sansa after a few days already hehe
18:53:00BigBambi_The F has a 300 MHz CPU, the S is 532 MHz + all the fancy bits linuxstb mentioned
18:53:16BigBambi_also ignoring any family differences
18:53:34BigBambi_Sansa is dual 80 MHz
18:53:42linuxstbA brain the size of a planet, and we want to run Rockbox on it ;)
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18:54:06stripwaxDoes the Gigabeat OF make use of all that juice??
18:54:14BigBambi_stripwax: It runs windows
18:54:20BigBambi_(!)
18:54:29conandolol
18:54:40BigBambi_stripwax: It has lots of fancy annoying transition animations and the like
18:54:44linuxstbI think it can play videos, but I've no idea what.
18:54:54BigBambi_Yeah, wmv of some description
18:54:59stripwaxahh
18:55:00conandohm wondering how long until the batteries die out...
18:55:21linuxstbGiven that the original firmware keeps the disk spinning constantly while the UI is active, it can't be too long...
18:55:29conandojeez
18:56:25*jhMikeS likes the clipped graphics capabilities of the OS there but the transistion serve no useful purpose
18:56:29conandosome OF are soooo unbelievable bad... i wonder how someone could have used the archos back then with the OF at all.. without the rockbox that was some UI from hell
18:56:48BigBambi_I tried putting a couple of vids on the S once to try, but it didn't work properly (or rather I don't know how WMP works), so I put it back on the shelf and went back to the trusty F and H140
18:57:33Soapconando, "with the current official rockbox build and an cinemacraft 3pass encoded mpeg2 224x128 pix i get 25 fps constantly only when dropping the avg bitrate to something around 400-450 kbit"
18:57:41Soapisn't that a ton of bits per pixel?
18:58:24 Quit wurzelnase ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
18:58:25Soaplike twice SVCD rates?
18:58:51conandoit's about 0,5 bit per pixel
18:58:55conandois that much? ;)
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18:59:46linuxstbWhat's SVCD - around 1.2Mbit/s for 480x480?
19:00
19:00:21conandoyes something like that
19:01:01UncleOp22linuxstb: Thank you for that insight. Is this documented on a wiki or such? I've been a-poking a lot...
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19:02:06UncleOp22linuxstb: (referring to how partitions are mapped and trying to recover from a bricked C2x0.)
19:02:06conandosoap of course it's "ok" quality wise.. but if you compare it to the (of course quite high bitrate/low compressed) mjpeg vids i play with the OF it's full of compression artefacts...
19:02:12linuxstbUncleOp22: It's probably mentioned on Daniel's pages about the Sansas - a description of the contents of the firmware partition. Although I've just realised that if your Sansa won't boot, you can't enter USB mode, and hence can't dd...
19:02:39UncleOp22linuxstb: Ah. Yeah, I was afraid of that.
19:02:45linuxstbBut you could use dd to copy a bootloader from a working c200
19:03:28UncleOp22That's what I'm hoping will work. Daniel's page(s) seem to deal mostly with e2x0's. Thanks for the pointer/hint.
19:03:31Soap2400/480/567 = .009 kb pp whereas 450/224/128 = 0.16 kb pp
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19:03:51Soapthat is a MASSIVE bitrate - and I suspect your encoder doesn't do low res well if it looks bad at all.
19:04:10BigBambi_It seems SVCD is variable bitrate to a maximum of 2.6 Mbit/s for both PAL (480 x 576) and NTSC (480 x 480)
19:04:10Soap(SVCD = 2.6 Mbs combined audio and video)
19:04:21conandosoap it's _25_ frames per second
19:04:36conandoif it was 1fps it would look great i guess ;)
19:04:43Soapconando, that has nothing to do with the math I just showed.
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19:05:18Soapmy point is that SVCD is considered near DVD quality - and you're using almost twice the equivalent bitrate of SVCD,
19:05:52conandogood joke @ near dvd quality :)
19:06:33conandowell i tried ffmpeg/mencoder etc. and the results wheren't better... cinemacraft is a high quality encoder, even with low resolutions like that
19:06:36*linuxstb remembers the BBC publishing a research paper saying that 6Mbit/s was needed for 720x576 MPEG-2, but that they now broadcast at an average of around 3.5MBit/s...
19:06:54conandonevertheless the bitrate and perceived visual quality can't be simply scaled like that
19:06:55Soapdvd = 9800/720/576 MAX bitrate = 0.024 kb pp
19:07:09hcsI'm still not used to seeing compression artifacts on TV.
19:07:09Soapaverage consumer DVD is half that.
19:08:21linuxstbconando: Have you enabled dithering in mpegplayer (if it exists on the Sansa....)
19:08:22Soapyour bit per pixel ratio as described is 2/3rds DVD peak and over DVD average.
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19:09:04Soap(I mistyped above: 450/224/128 = 0.016, not 0.16 as I earlier stated)
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19:10:25conandoof course.. but as i said you can't compare the per pixel bitrate that simple
19:11:08conandoyou have to take into account how the compression works and that you start to _notice_ these compression artefacts much sooner with such low resolutions
19:12:26conandoif you take a 220x128 pixel area from a tft showing a dvd and put it in front of your face like you'd do it with such a small player you'd notice how bad mpeg2 can look ;)
19:13:27conandobut of course it's ok for the average viewing... i'm just looking into getting the same visual quality as with high bitrate mjpeg on the OF for short clips on the rockbox..
19:14:56*linuxstb wonders what happens every 16 seconds in his WPS that causes part of a line to be cleared...
19:17:06Buschelsoap: any results from your runtime measurement?
19:17:18Soapstill running
19:17:28Soapthough I forgot to toggle hold!
19:17:33Soapsorry
19:17:45Buschelhmm, when did you start the test?
19:18:16Soap13 hours ago
19:18:25Soapthirteen hours and 4 minutes
19:18:26Buschelhow many % left?
19:18:47Buschel(battery %)?
19:18:49Soapgraphical ;( I'd say 25-30%
19:19:18conando...and of course the visual quality stays more or less constant all the time (with mjpeg) in contrast to mpeg2 where it gets either ugly in high motion scenes or choppy (because the mpeg2 decoder on my target can't handle bitrate peaks higher than ~700/800 kbit)
19:19:26Buschelsoap: then lets wait :o)
19:19:47conandowhat device are you measuring?
19:19:53SoapI'll run it again with hold on tonight.
19:19:58stripwaxSoap - which device?
19:20:04Soap5th gen 60GB
19:21:01Buschelsoap: i am not sure if the USB or the wheel brings the runtime −− or both...
19:21:25Buschelsoap: with your test we will know :)
19:21:30Soapthat's why I'll do one with hold on!
19:21:44Soapit would be nice if it is USB
19:22:04Buschelyep, rhen its reusable for other Pp targets
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19:22:15markunBuschel, Soap: wouldn't it be easier to just measure the current with a multi meter?
19:22:17stripwaxSoap - ah, me too. I'll have some test results shortly :)
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19:22:33Soapmarkun, sure would.
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19:22:51Buschelmarkun: yes, but hard to attach... saratoga gave me a hint yesterday
19:23:20*jhMikeS thinks he wants to commit this little mpeg seeking engine gadgetry now...of course the complaints will come with people using encodings using huge GOPs and slow processors ;) (until some "give up" logic is added)
19:23:22Soapproblem is my 5th gen is my main DAP. I'll crack open any other one.
19:23:47 Part UncleOp22
19:23:52Soapit is sealed up nine ways to Friday on account of the conditions I use it in @ work.
19:24:53Soapsealed (except for the dock port) in shrinkwrap now, and in a heavy (tight) rubber case.
19:25:18Soap(well, the headphone jack is exposed too)
19:25:20*hcs imagines some combination of underwater and dust, quicksand maybe
19:25:52jhMikeSlinuxstb: any files that you feel should contain your copyright? I just added the headers in by cut/paste but much original code is still there in some form and I seem to recall it being yours.
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19:25:55Buschelyay! just reached the former maximum runtime (10:24h) and still have 18% battery to go! :o)
19:26:21Soapyou got 10:24 before your tweaks?
19:26:43Buschelyes. its also written down in the runtime wiki
19:26:46Soapthat's 75% of Apple's claimed runtime.
19:26:53Soapholy bejesus.
19:27:03Buschelyes, but with mpc :o)
19:27:15stripwaxIsn't 60gig claimed to be 20hr?
19:27:16linuxstbjhMikeS: I assume you're talking mpegplayer? If so, then no, I'm happy for you to claim copyright on the files, although there are (or have been) bits from people other than me.
19:27:39stripwaxOh, right - Buschel you have the 30GIG?
19:27:57Soapstripwax, yes it is - but when my ipod was new I benched @ > 22 hours. Now that it is 20 months old I still get ~20.75 hours with original firmware.
19:28:10Buschelsoap: yes.
19:28:25jhMikeSlinuxstb: I've lost track (I guess I could browse SVN) and nothing was claimed in the original mpegplayer.c and it's been split into logical unit files.
19:29:02Buschelgotta go have some meal
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19:31:35*jhMikeS supposes if any issue comes up it can easily be corrected anyway
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19:32:16conandojhMikeS: seeking? great :D
19:33:18jhMikeSconando: the engine can seek. I haven't added the UI part yet but that's all it will need. The patch is big so I figured I'd do it in stages as best as I can.
19:34:57jhMikeSit also outputs alot of debug info in the sim but it's interesting stuff :)
19:35:00Soapmy other question is - shouldn't you use a multimeter with serial output so you can record and average out the amp draw over a period of time? (in regards to using an ampmeter to monitor power consumption between code revisions)
19:35:06conandoand the engine is.. something you (and others) wrote from scratch? how much libmpeg2 code is used.. i mean.. did you already rewrite a huge chunk of it?
19:35:35 Quit zicho (Remote closed the connection)
19:35:53conandohehe i bet it is... have to get my dev environment ready... are you on a linux box or win with cygwin/vmware?
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19:36:23jhMikeSconando: the engine is basically rb original. libmpeg2 has been cut down and assembly optimized code added
19:36:40*jhMikeS uses VMWare on XP
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19:37:31conandonice work!
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19:38:43jhMikeSI think I've seen the original stream demux code in other opensource but even that's way modded to be error tolerant.
19:38:46conandoi bet it's not easy to use larger parts from existing libs because of stuff like not being able to malloc etc.etc. ... so no configure/make on the mplayer sources :P
19:39:59conandohm.. when experimenting with several encoders/muxers i once got an error from the mpegplayer plugin about a missing/wrong start code.. nevertheless it played the video just fine...
19:40:10jhMikeSeverything tries to get done really efficiently and alot of video code is c++ as well and often written for a completely different way of handling streams.
19:40:53jhMikeSit won't complain after my update but just play through errors sometimes without you ever knowing they happened
19:41:28jhMikeSI have a video where the start code is in the wrong place on every single packet but it plays without any problem or glitching
19:42:28conandoyeah i can imagine... hm i'm mostly a c++ dev myself (started out with pure ansi c though) .. now i have to get back to c "only".. i personally find it quite hard to quickly "switch" between those quite different worlds... once you get used to one it's no problem.. but every "switch" takes some time
19:42:55 Quit karashata (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC")
19:43:58conandoah ok.. yeah i know those kinds of mpeg "anomalies".. but most of the time it's of no real use to (non-dev) users to present them with these kinds of stream/muxing errors in the first place.. as they most of the time can't do anything about it
19:44:00jhMikeSI do find a want for c++ in this particular case
19:45:02conandoyou mean you'd like to be able to use c++ in rockbox in this special case (video codecs)?
19:45:03jhMikeSthat stuff will be confined to debug output only since they almost never cause a stream to be unplayable
19:45:11conandoexactly
19:45:40jhMikeScodecs, parser, etc. etc. though I did arrange things to be a bit object oriented
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19:47:36conandoi know what you mean.. sadly it's never the same as "real" oop... (just had to do some ajax/jscript coding for a recent project... sigh ;o)
19:48:13jhMikeSmain goals thus far 1) arbitrarily accurate seeking 2) strict organization 3) every feature in SVN continues working until the additional UI is added
19:48:14conandoimho this video stuff gets quite messy quickly when done without oop
19:48:49conandosounds well planned :)
19:49:26jhMikeSI'll keep the browsing screen even with a seeking UI during playback. I rather like having the chance to look about a video before playing it.
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19:49:58conandobtw how is the current "start seeking" done? where you can seek to a specified time in the beginning... does it jump to an estimate location in the bin data and then parses the packets?
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19:53:08conandothe browsing screen? the current menu/options screen you mean?
19:53:24jhMikeSthe start menu
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19:54:31conandoah ok sorry, i misunderstood.. now i get it...yeah you're right
19:55:04conandoas long as it's configurable ;) (if it should be shown before playback)
19:55:05jhMikeSit find a PTS that is <= time < next pts ususally in just a few searches. fine seeking is done to find the exact audio and video frames. video needs decoding from the correct GOP start up to the wanted frame, the audio needs only audio frame sync and no actual decoding
19:56:11conandoso pretty much the standard way... and seeking during playback jumps between GOPs?
19:57:20stripwaxBuschel - I've just kicked off a test using battery_bench with hold on, on a 5g 60GB. will report results some time tomorrow
19:57:28jhMikeSit's the same procedure no matter whether playing, paused or stopped. no actual seek is performed until an image is required. the audio is seeked when playback starts. seeking during playback is a pause, then restart
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19:59:18jhMikeSconando: It also has a file cache so seeks within buffered data won't need disk access but this allows completely random-access caching too.
19:59:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:59:52conandooh ok.. nicely done :)
20:00
20:00:34jhMikeSIf video is seeked within the start screen, that cached frame won't need another seek, disk access or decoding so playback can start instantly.
20:00:37conandoi'm really looking forward to that.. makes it perfectly usable imho
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20:01:27Buschelstripwax: great
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20:02:16conandohmm.. when thinking about it i guess another player isn't really needed...
20:02:27SoapBuschel, @ my current max runtime with 15-20% battery left.
20:03:13conandoas my "fulltime job" has to do with video too i'm perhaps a bit.. well.. i tend to overanalyze video/visual quality :) so no one besides me would care for that
20:03:13jhMikeSconando: I just recommend encoding with GOPs of about 15-30 frames, not 300 which I think is being used currently but is not good for precise random access.
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20:03:34Buschelsoap: sounds wonderful, doesn't it? ;) btw, @11h now with 15% left
20:05:58conandojhMikeS: of course.. i'm doing that already.. too much frames inbetween is never good... "300 which I think is being used currently" <- used where? at least not in the encoding recommendations/command line examples on the mpegplayer wiki page...
20:09:14jhMikeSconando: I was told ffmpeg recommends some absurdly long GOPs for encoding. Gigabeat can chomp through those without it being annoying but other will be quite laggy.
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20:11:25stripwaxso - sliding_puzzle. Anything left to do before this could be committed? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7218
20:11:39jhMikeSI guess I'll refine things as far as how things are done and try to manage everything the best possible way but I just want this huge code bulk committed :p
20:11:42conandonever heard of that recommendation.. which is kind of strange anyway... especially when it's not only long GOPs but also seldom I-frames as the quality can become quite bad between long distance I-frames
20:12:11jhMikeSconando: quite true re: the decoder refresh
20:12:55conandoyes.. most of the time the viewer experiences the refresh as some kind of pulsing/strobing of the vid
20:13:21conandoso are you the main mpegplayer dev? or even more or less the only one? ;)
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20:15:29jhMikeSconando: I dunno. I said I'd so this seeking thing after getting full dual-core threading done. The first got done, so I went onto the next project which would be horrible to do hacking around that deficit.
20:16:09conandohehe
20:16:51conandoso it's more or less a joint project? everybody helps out where he/she can?
20:17:02jhMikeSonly problem is this needs another thread slot since it uses five threads :)
20:17:19conandofive threads??!
20:17:38 Quit karashata (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC")
20:17:47jhMikeSconando: I guess that's what rb is in general. I just have interest in working on certain bits extensively myself...mpegplayer being one.
20:18:29jhMikeSconando: 1) main plugin thread for UI 2) playback engine 3) buffering 4) video 5) audio
20:18:36stripwaxIs there another dev (other than Nico_P) who could commit this?
20:19:53conandowicked.. didn't think that this would be already so multithreaded...
20:20:34conandoand the video thread takes advantage of dual-core with one thread or do you initiate an additional thread on dual-core?
20:21:11jhMikeSvideo is the only one on COP...really the only one that needs a processor to itself
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20:22:36jhMikeSI could put something else on COP but see no need really since the playback thread really just stays blocked unless a state change is needed or a stream posts a notification that it hit the end of it's data
20:23:01conandomakes sense ;)
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20:24:35conandobut all of the seeking stuff isn't yet in svn right?
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20:27:31jhMikeSconando: I'm just thinking if I missed anything important. I guess it should be shortly.
20:27:34conandoi'll have a look at it when it's finally being commited as i'm really curious about the implementational details... afterwards i'm going to decide if i still want to try something similar myself or quickly give up any plans on implementing something like that as my first step into "embedded terrain" ;)
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20:28:42*jhMikeS didn't think he'd make the breakthrough to get it done...the key was the diskbuffer filecache and then it fell into place rather fast.
20:28:44woodensoulwhat do you guys use to fill up your microSDHC cards?
20:28:53jhMikeSwater
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20:29:18woodensoulI don't have one, I'm trying to help out my uncle whom I just turned on to rockbox.
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20:29:39rasherwoodensoul: mine came with a small usb reader..
20:30:20conandobtw whats the biggest microSD capacity currently out there?
20:30:24conando4gig?
20:30:38woodensoul6gig
20:30:40rasherMicroSD - 2gb (the maximum possible. MicroSDHC - 8gb.
20:31:16rayjum i believe the microsd goes upto 8gb
20:31:26conando2gig the max with microsd? uh ok.. i thought it would be 8gig with both of them... and microsdhc is already available with 8gb?
20:31:28woodensoulhe's trying to use his 9 month old laptop card reader to fill it up, will that work?
20:31:48rasherwoodensoul: if it supports sdhc, it should. If not, it won't.
20:32:09 Quit karim (Remote closed the connection)
20:32:10rasherconando: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsd
20:32:28rasherAnd yeah, I've seen 8GB microsdhc cards for sale.
20:32:29woodensoulwell he formatted it and now it shows up as 1.8GB instead of 6GB
20:32:50conandothanks rasher!
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20:33:09rasherwoodensoul: Blame Windows. It won't format drives as fat32 larger than 2gb I believe. Try using a tool like swissknife
20:33:25linuxstbI thought the limit was 32GB?
20:33:38rasherAh. Possibly.
20:33:48BHSPitLappyrasher, yeah, I think you're wrong about that
20:33:57linuxstbSounds like the reader doesn;'t support SDHC
20:34:02BHSPitLappybut yes, use another formatting tool.
20:34:14rasherlinuxstb: won't that just Not Work?
20:34:26linuxstbI've no idea...
20:34:33rasherStranger things have happened I guess.
20:34:50linuxstbBut it seems a co-incidence that it's only seeing the first 2GB of it - the MicroSD maximum.
20:35:03woodensoulhe says it showed the total capacity (6GB) before he formatted it
20:35:15woodensoulbut now it shows 1.8GB
20:35:19rasherMaybe he used fat16? (doesn't that have a 2gb max?)
20:35:35woodensoulno, FAT32 for sure
20:35:41Mouser_XI think FAT16 max is 4GB.
20:35:43*linuxstb stops speculating and waits for someone who knows
20:35:51Mouser_XI'm not sure though.
20:36:06SoapFAT 16 through windows = 2GB I thought. 2GB per partition
20:36:16Soaphttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/118335
20:36:48Soapmaybe I'm misreading that.
20:37:28Soapyea - FAT16 = http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/partSizes-c.html
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20:38:49woodensoulbut he formatted as fat32
20:39:00Soapthough Blackberry support forums say if you format a SDHC card in a SD only reader you get 1.6GB
20:39:19Soaphttp://www.blackberryforums.com/general-8100-series-discussion-pearl/102705-8100-pearl-microsdhc-above-2-gb-4-6-8-a.html
20:39:21rasherMystery solved.
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20:40:05jhMikeSconando: I think it's on so just a couple minutes here
20:40:14rasherwoodensoul: Your uncle needs a card reader that supports sdhc. Or he can move stuff to his sansa, then copy it within Rockbox to the sdhc card. That's not exactly a convenient way to do it though.
20:40:47Soaphe could have done that - but now that he has formatted it "incorrectly" will that process still work, rasher?
20:41:36rasherAh, probably not
20:43:19woodensoul1.68 is the formatted size now
20:43:52woodensoulare there ever driver updates for the older readers to support SDHC?
20:44:08rasherFew card readers have drivers
20:45:26rasherThere's probably not much he can do right now, except get a card reader that supports sdhc (or borrow one and format the card properly)
20:47:08*jhMikeS pressed the shiny "Enter" key
20:48:32woodensoulgotcha
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20:49:57woodensoulhe says he was able to fill it up with 500MB of content before formatting it
20:50:09woodensouldoes that mean that the read supports SDHC or not?
20:50:13woodensoulreader
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20:52:39rasherwoodensoul: It was probably just accessing the card as if it was a sd card, which probably worked out. The fact that it got formatted to 1.6gb is a good sign that it doesn't support sdhc.
20:52:57*jhMikeS hasn't looked at the build table for awhile and notices it looks a bit strange and short
20:53:13rasherwoodensoul: Unless he was able to copy >2gb, I wouldn't think that the reader supports sdhc
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20:54:19woodensoulcan rockbox format the SDHC cards to the correct capacity?
20:54:32linuxstbNo, there's no formatting support in Rockbox.
20:54:50*linuxstb has some code in ipodpatcher that could probably be adapted though...
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20:55:12rasherIt's technically possible, but not implemented. Might actually be a nice thing to have, especially for multivolume targets
20:56:13Soap"my music wasn't showing up in the database - so I formatted my player. Help!"
20:56:36Mouser_XThat
20:56:43LloreanSoap: Most of the players have enough RAM that we could load the whole .rockbox folder, barring themes/fonts, and write it back after, couldn't we?
20:56:54Mouser_XSoap: That's what I was thinking.
20:58:04linuxstbJust call it "Manual", and no-one will open it...
20:59:00Soaplol
21:00
21:00:23woodensouli RTFM
21:00:58*Buschel finished the 5G runtime test -> 11:46h, +12% ;o)
21:04:22Mouser_Xlol @ linuxstb.
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21:15:23*linuxstb adds his current viewports patch to Flyspray - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8385
21:16:38Soapif 12% is right I should have 24 minutes remaining.
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21:17:02Soapfor I'm @ 9% over previous mark right now.
21:17:33Soapw/o hold switch (wheel poweroff)
21:18:21Soap75% of apple runtime is a nice improvement - 50% of the problem fixed in a relatively short amount of time.
21:19:06*Llorean looks at the patch tracker and starts buying supplies for a party.
21:23:18Mouser_Xlinuxstb: Isn't the Sansa e200 a color LCD with 220x176 resolution?
21:24:18LloreanNo
21:24:20Llorean176x220
21:24:29Mouser_XD'oh!
21:24:41linuxstbUse the sim...
21:24:43Mouser_XIt displays video in that resolution, sorry.
21:25:10LloreanYeah, it uses video in that resolution because of the 90 degree rotation. Which we don't have runtime for the UI or anything. :)
21:25:14linuxstbWhich reminds me, I should probably test viewports on-target, I've done everything in the sim so far...
21:26:00Mouser_XLlorean: Of course. I had been reading the PluginMpegpage, and forgot that the Sansa is up-down sized screen and not left-right (it's how I look at it)...
21:26:15LloreanGotcha
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21:33:07*linuxstb would like people to test viewports, and try and write WPSs for it - to see how well it works...
21:33:16parafinwhat are the current maximum versions of gcc and binutils which would compile rockbox successfully?
21:33:26linuxstbFor what device?
21:33:44parafinipod 5.5g
21:33:55parafinarm
21:34:59linuxstb4.0.3 is recommended, but you probably know that... I don't know what the status of newer versions are, but in general when a newer version is proven to be better than an older one, we would upgrade.
21:35:22LloreanI'm pretty sure there's problems with 4.x where x!=0
21:38:09*linuxstb notices he has 6 more LCD drivers to adapt...
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21:52:02*linuxstb wonders what the "Private" option is in Flyspray...
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21:58:14rasherlinuxstb: Probably for secret tasks (such as security issues before disclosure etc)
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21:59:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:00
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22:09:44*linuxstb just got a Mac OS X kernel oops in the USB MSC driver when disconnecting his ipod...
22:14:16rashernice
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22:33:44cool2bdaveHi, My Iaudio HD has a load of sectors in the middle that are damaged. The rest of it works fine. If I partition before and after the damaged part, can rockbox see tthe two partitions?
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22:36:41amiconnlinuxstb: That's more than I expected from viewports :/
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22:37:38amiconns/from/for/
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22:46:55Guest14794all of a suddent my h10 battery stopped holding a charge−−is there a way to do a battery refresh or soemthing in rockbox?
22:47:47 Join billbeef [0] (n=569672e2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-8141438c74bc14a2)
22:47:58billbeefi need help people
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22:48:20linuxstbamiconn: You're talking about the binsize increase?
22:48:24amiconnyes
22:48:29 Quit cool2bdave ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
22:48:34billbeefi converted my video with winFF like on the insturctions but when on my sansa e280, the video goes slightly out of sync
22:48:55billbeefwhat specs shud i insert to stop it going out of sync?
22:49:43billbeefany1 know?
22:49:51linuxstbamiconn: Some of it was the WPS changes, I'll try and see what the change to just the LCD driver was..
22:49:52Lloreanbillbeef: 1) Have patience
22:50:11Llorean2) What width, height, and framerate did you choose for the video? What bitrate is it?
22:50:22billbeefi used ...
22:50:28amiconn3) what samplerate is the audio?
22:50:41billbeef220 X 176
22:50:47billbeefsample rate mp3
22:50:48billbeef?
22:51:01linuxstb44.1KHz?
22:51:01billbeefaudio bit rate was 143
22:51:06billbeefahh
22:51:16LloreanAnd, frame rate still
22:51:23billbeef23
22:51:36billbeefdo you know like the proper specs?
22:52:11LloreanI know that encoding a 24fps video at 220x176 worked for me the last time I tested it.
22:52:33billbeefat sample rate 44.1KHz?
22:52:41LloreanThat's the only supported one.
22:52:43linuxstbmpegplayer requires 44.1KHz audio.
22:52:46amiconnAfaik 23 fps is not a supported mpeg frame rate
22:52:59linuxstbIt's not - 23.9something is though.
22:53:08amiconnYes, 23.976
22:53:09billbeefok
22:53:18billbeefdo you know what audio and vid bit rate i shud use
22:53:56LloreanAudio bit rate really shouldn't matter on the Sansa much at all
22:54:10billbeefso shud i just leave that box blank
22:54:41amiconnSample rate is what matters for audio - it must be 44.1kHz
22:54:55amiconnFrame rate should be one of the valid mpeg2 frame rates
22:54:55linuxstbDo you know the video framerate of the original video? It's best to encode at the same rate as the source if possible.
22:55:19billbeefhow do you find out original framerate
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22:55:50jhMikeSbillbeef: Both Skip Frames and Limit FPS are on?
22:55:54linuxstbIf you play the file, most video players will have an option to display the characteristics of the file.
22:56:03billbeefoh 2 secs then
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22:56:53billbeefthe frame rate is
22:56:58billbeef29.969000
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23:00
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23:01:01billbeefright
23:01:04billbeefso
23:01:14billbeefmy specs shud be
23:01:23billbeef220 X 176 frame size
23:01:45billbeefsame rate 44.1KHz
23:01:56billbeef24 frame rate
23:02:05billbeef(23.976)
23:02:23billbeefyer?
23:02:38Lloreanbillbeef: You haven't answered all the questions yet.
23:02:49LloreanYou did have skip frames, and limit FPS both on, right?
23:02:57billbeefermm
23:03:01billbeefi dont know
23:03:12billbeefu mean on my sansa
23:03:15LloreanYes
23:03:17billbeefor transcoder
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23:03:20billbeefermmm
23:03:23billbeefim not sure
23:03:32billbeeflet me see if theyre on
23:03:48waldothe sansa c200 v2 hardware supports microsdhc but on wikipedia it says that the v1 hardware does sdhc when loaded with rockbox .. is that true ?
23:03:57Lloreanwaldo: Yes.
23:04:14billbeefhow do i check if theyre on or not
23:04:25waldoso the diff. between sd and sdhc is pure software ?
23:04:29Lloreanbillbeef: They're in the mpegplayer menu... Just look.
23:04:33Bagderwaldo: yes
23:04:35billbeefok
23:05:20 Quit ojay ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.1 :: www.regroup-esports.com )")
23:06:40billbeefhow do i get to the mpeg player menu :S when i click on my video it just says play from beginning, resume time, set start time, quit mpeg player
23:07:09billbeefwait im on
23:08:05wurzelnasehello ...
23:08:21wurzelnasei get an ata: -80 error with my CF card
23:08:36billbeefmy sansa has froze?
23:09:08Lloreanwurzelnase: There aren't any targets that have CF support...
23:09:17Lloreanbillbeef: What SVN revision of Rockbox are you using, anyway?
23:09:31billbeefmy sansa has froze
23:09:39wurzelnasei moded a ipod video
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23:09:49billbeefwot shud i do
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23:10:40Lloreanbillbeef: Hold power for 15 seconds, and try using real words.
23:10:42 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
23:11:12billbeefright im back on
23:11:24billbeeflet me try that video again then with the stuff turned on
23:11:31LloreanWhat SVN revision are you using?
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23:11:44billbeefwhat do you mean
23:11:50LloreanWhat version of Rockbox?
23:12:33billbeeflatest
23:12:37billbeefi only put it on today
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23:12:42LloreanThat doesn't mean "latest"
23:12:48LloreanToday has had several versions
23:12:57LloreanWhich is why I asked for the specific revision number
23:12:57billbeefmy version is...
23:13:02EasyPreyr15978?
23:13:22billbeefno
23:13:25billbeefr15978
23:13:28billbeefwait
23:13:28billbeefsorry
23:13:31billbeefr15976
23:13:38LloreanThen update to the current one before further testing
23:13:45billbeefhow
23:13:46LloreanA significant change to mpegplayer happened in 15977
23:14:00LloreanJust install the current build.
23:14:05billbeefoh yeah ok
23:14:14 Quit uwe_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:14:25*jhMikeS definitely didn't want to hear "r15978". whew. :p
23:14:30billbeefdo i need to uninstall the old version
23:14:34EasyPreyno
23:14:34billbeefor just install the new one
23:14:35wurzelnaseare CF mod questions beyond the scope of this chat room?
23:14:43EasyPreyjust extract the new one
23:14:53EasyPreywurzelnase: probably
23:14:56wurzelnasei can't find any answers on the forums or google
23:15:04Lloreanwurzelnase: CF mod questions are unlikely to be answered because few people have done it. You probably need to add software support.
23:15:44wurzelnasehow? i am not sure i understand
23:15:47*jhMikeS hopes there's enough GOPs in that encoding...hrmph
23:15:49billbeefwhat is the signifcant difference from 15977?
23:16:12EasyPreytry the changelog
23:16:19jhMikeSbig, huge
23:16:59*jhMikeS is off by one
23:17:10billbeefllorean iv updated now
23:17:33EasyPreyr15978: Fix some DEBUGF warnings for sims.
23:17:42conandolol @ jhMikeS
23:17:44conando:)
23:17:55Lloreanbillbeef: Now encode a video at a reasonable bitrate, say 260kbps for the video, and a framerate such as 24, make sure frame skip and limit FPS are enabled, and see about synce
23:18:41billbeefok
23:18:45jhMikeSoh please oh please use -gop 15 too :)
23:18:50billbeefthanks for the help by the way
23:18:54jhMikeSLlorean: that's the right option eh?
23:19:00LloreanjhMikeS: -g 15
23:19:04LloreanAt least for ffmpeg
23:19:09EasyPreyahh i just forgot i was using the wrong account
23:19:11jhMikeSaha, right
23:19:32 Quit EasyPrey ("ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
23:19:48EternalRainsthere, better
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23:21:35conandojhMikeS/Llorean do ffmpeg or mencoder support "internal" multipass encoding with mpeg2 somehow? or do you have to call it multiple times (that's at least the ffmpeg way)
23:22:10 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
23:22:17 Quit m0f0x ()
23:22:23Lloreanconando: I believe they both require two calls
23:22:32*Llorean prefers a constant quantizer to two-pass.
23:22:51 Quit wurzelnase ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
23:22:54conandoCQ
23:23:01conandoi c
23:23:03Lloreanqscale
23:23:04conando;) hehe sorry
23:23:48conandoi think the common term with commercial encoders is CQ
23:24:03EternalRainsahhh development is too active... r15979 is already out... I can barely keep up
23:24:08LloreanYeah, but I'm referring to the parameter passed to the two encoders in question
23:24:56conandooh ok.. i haven't used it yet with ffmpeg/mencoder.. i'm still trying how to achieve the best quality/smoothest playback with mpegplayer on 224x128
23:25:39LloreanjhMikeS: Thoughts on the seeking UI, btw. I assume "seeking" will work essentially like it does in music. Are you going to remove the startup menu, and maybe just replace it with a "Go To" option in the normal menu, and auto resume (my preference)
23:26:06Lloreanconando: Multiple players have a screen that would fit video at that dimension.
23:26:19Lloreanconando: On the Sansa, you should be able to get 25, maybe even 30 at that.
23:26:29jhMikeSLloread: I was going to pop up a window at the bottom of the screen
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23:26:53LloreanjhMikeS: With the seek bar?
23:27:19conandoLlorean: i'm using the sansa and i can achieve 25fps with an average video bitrate of about 450... if i go higher it starts noticably skipping frames
23:27:25jhMikeSof course, and volume and the time and such draw rotated on rotated displays
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23:29:17Lloreanconando: 450 is VERY high for such a small resolution\
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23:29:47LloreanI use 450 for 320x180 content.
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23:30:19conandoLlorean i know.. but i guess i'm a bit "weird" in regards to visual quality because i mainly do video postpro as my 9 to 5 job.. :/
23:30:40Lloreanconando: Do you have dithering enabled in mpegplayer?
23:30:57LloreanTry passing -qscale 6, but turning on dithering in mpegplayer, and not setting a bitrate.
23:30:58conandoand i got used to the quality of the low compression mjpeg quicktime files in the first two days with the sansa and it's original firmware ;)
23:30:59jhMikeSI guess to rotate text (just the time displays), I'll use lcd_framebuffer as temp space.
23:32:05conandollorean yeah i tried.. of course it eats some performance.. so i really can't use dithering with high bitrates.. of course it helps with blocking artefacts of lower bitrates but doesn't help with mosquito noise etc ;)
23:32:22linuxstbWhat about just using your own (minimal) font(s)? Do you even need any letters?
23:32:34Lloreanconando: "mosquito noise"?
23:32:44linuxstbThese could be pre-rotated for the portrait targets.
23:33:05linuxstbBTW, by "font" I just mean a bitmap strip...
23:33:32conandoLlorean common term in the world of lossy video compression artefacts ;)
23:33:53jhMikeSlinuxstb: I might. I didn't want to eat up plugin buffer space since I might want that for code. I guess only about 35% is used now.
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23:34:07Lloreanconando: Yes, but it doesn't mean anything to me, and telling me "Oh, it's something you don't know" doesn't help any
23:34:13linuxstbHow many characters would you need though?
23:34:23conandoLlorean yes sorry i know...
23:34:38Lloreanconando: You're going to have to accept that these are VERY slow devices, and either lower your video bitrate, or also lower your framerate.
23:34:43LloreanThe MJPEG only ran at 15fps anyway
23:34:49conandoLlorean it's caused by the DCT compression
23:35:26conandoLlorean no.. the OF plays MJPEG B 224x128 movs totally fine up to around 28fps
23:35:49Lloreanconando: The video encoder transcodes them and lowers the framerate.
23:35:50mhydronichey guys. just updated from a few days ago to the latest build for ipod video and it keeps freezing at the wps. the previous build did this as well
23:35:56jhMikeSlinuxstb: not much if I only show time and volume. any bitmap images can be pre-rotated of couse.
23:36:18conandoregarding mosquito noise/ringing.. it's best to describe visually.. if you do a google image search with "mosquito noise" you'll get plenty of images... eg. http://www.highdefforum.com/gallery/data/511/40Jpeg_distortion.jpg
23:36:49conandoLlorean i did never use the original (windows i guess) sansa software to transcode the video
23:36:50jhMikeSthat's just ringing from finite frequency response
23:37:23conandojhMikeS yes.. and it's commonly called "mosquito noise" in the video world ;)
23:37:47jhMikeSI am aware of that :)
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23:38:17LloreanIs doubling the necessary bitrate really going to produce a noticeable improvement on such a tiny screen in terms of ringing?
23:38:27conandoLlorean the video player of the OF would read a standard quicktime mov with an mjpeg encoded video track and an uncompressed pcm audio track (11/22,5/44,1khz)
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23:39:32jhMikeSany bandlimited waveform that would require an inifinite number of partials to synthesize perfectly will "ring".
23:39:41conandowell at least from my observations yes... but of course video compression is _highly_ subjective.. the perceived visual quality differs highly.. i mean.. my girlfriend eg. didn't see any difference at all ;)
23:40:08Lloreanconando: If you want to watch portable video, why don't you actually buy a player fast enough to support higher quality video
23:40:20LloreanI've tested the Gigabeat with 1500kbps at 320x180 without frame dropping.
23:40:38conandoit's not so much the ringing but of course the higher the bitrate the more (smallest) details will be preserved.. especially with such a small screen held up pretty close to your eyes.. it's quite visible..
23:40:43billbeefllorean
23:40:57billbeefwhn i transcoded that video it cut it down like only did 15 mins of it?
23:40:58Lloreanconando: With the pixellation, I'm surprised you're holding it that close...
23:41:04conandoLlorean of course that's an option ;)
23:41:07Lloreanbillbeef: Then learn how to use your tools better.
23:41:28LloreanI can't really provide you support for some random video encoding tool.
23:41:42billbeef:/
23:41:43conandono but the quality is really fine.. please don't take it as me complaining or something
23:41:52billbeefi used WinFF
23:42:15conandoas i wrote here earlier i'm just looking into building something like the mpegplayer plugin but for (fluid ;o) playing of the quicktime mjpeg files i encoded for the OF
23:42:30Lloreanbillbeef: Then it won't cut the file length unless you interrupt it, set a filesize or time limit, or a bug interferes.
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23:44:03billbeefthats it
23:44:07billbeefi cut it i think
23:44:09billbeefmy accident
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23:45:02conandosigh.. how many of these "support calls" do you get here every day?
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23:48:11jhMikeSLlorean: were you going to post new encoding settings to the wiki?
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23:49:30bardiaquestion about the c200 with rockbox. i listened to the c250 in the store w/ my in-ear buds and the sound was fantastic, noise free. mp3 and radio both. my concern is volume. from what i read i should have finer volume levels with rockbox? b/c the minimum volume on the sansa firmware is too loud for my sensitive ears ;-) note: i also tried the sansa express in the store, which had an acceptable min level, presumably b/c of a wimpier amplifier, but i'd hate to
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23:49:59LloreanjhMikeS: I plan to yes. I need to test ones on at least all the hardware I have, which means I won't be finishing testing until at least after the sixth
23:50:29Lloreanbardia: The Rockbox volume allows much, much lower volumes
23:50:32LloreanThe full range of the hardware.
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23:52:09 Nick scorche` is now known as scorche (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
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23:52:39bardiaperfect
23:53:38jhMikeSLlorean: ok. I wonder if I should post a safe "guarantees a decent experience" profile until then. The main issue for precision is just GOP length.
23:53:38conandoLlorean what settings do you think of?
23:54:29LloreanjhMikeS: You should add a "New for seeking: Set GOP length to 15 maximum" or some such perhaps?
23:54:49jhMikeSyeah, that's standard DVD fare
23:55:32Lloreanconando: -qscale 6, frame rate and encoding size dependent upon target screen (presets for 4:3, 16:9 and 2.35 aspects with an intent to minimize or avoid frameskipping), with encoder options leaning toward slower, better quality rather than faster encodes. Trying to balance quality and size
23:55:45amiconnWhy does gop length matter? I'd just limit seeking to start-of-gop ...
23:55:59 Quit advcomp2019 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:56:19 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
23:56:25conandoLlorean sounds reasonable of course.. i'm looking forward to the options you recommend
23:57:07jhMikeSamiconn: You need an I frame to start the decoder and then wind it to the exact time. GOP starts with an I-frame always. I plan to have some limit on how far it will go but then seeking is very coarse.
23:57:42amiconnI know, and I wouldn't mid seeking at gop granularity
23:57:53amiconnDVD players do the same...
23:58:05conandoi've never used ffmpeg/mencoder for mpeg2 encoding until now but mostly cinemacraft/carbon coder (commercial fare) so i'm eager to learn ;)

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