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#rockbox log for 2008-01-14

00:00:06BagderKyin01: no rockbox target is made anymore
00:00:08amiconnI think we can neglect the -3
00:00:20markundid you guys see the new HDD based player from iriver? the P20 or iAmoled
00:00:22Kyin01damn
00:00:39Kyin01but do you have that link? it shows if some can still be found on ebay
00:00:52BagderKyin01: see BuyersGuide wiki page
00:01:08Kyin01if i get an ipod video 60GB how will I know if its the correct one? do i need it to be first generation ipod video?
00:01:20Lloreanmarkun: I do like the look of the construction on it. I don't like the way the wheel juts though. =/
00:01:57markunLlorean: I'm mostly happy that they didn't give up on the HDD
00:02:03LloreanThat is nice news, yes.
00:03:27linuxstb_Kyin01: The only hard-disk based ipod Rockbox doesn't work on is the "Classic" - which only comes in 80GB or 160GB models. So any 60GB will be fine.
00:04:27Kyin01even the new ipod video 60GB they sell now will work?
00:04:39linuxstb_They don't sell a new 60GB... (afaik)
00:04:51 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:05:22linuxstbAre you confusing the 160GB? That's a "Classic', which will not work with Rockbox.
00:05:28 Quit stripwax_ ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
00:06:18Kyin01oh, cool thanks for all your help. My iriver h10 jsut died and i need to get a new player i wanted so much for an x5 but cant find anywhere -_- so i guess ipod is the next best thing for someone who is looking for at least 20GB w/ .m3u/.pls support and browsing by folders and id3 tags. FM tuner would be nice but only the x5 had that
00:06:42*amiconn can't find a P20 on iriver.com or iriver.de
00:07:00Lloreanamiconn: It's in the "showing off at electronics shows" stage still, I think.
00:07:24linuxstbKyin01: I would prefer a Gigabeat F40 to an ipod - much nicer hardware (standard connectors, fast CPU, large LCD, capable of good video playback in Rockbox0.
00:07:33markunamiconn: I think it's only on iriver.co.kr (but didn't check since the iriver sites are usually flash based)
00:08:40Kyin01does the gigabeat have an fm tuner?
00:08:42rasherBagder: could you find the size of the largest langfiles for the various targets (weeding out non-cyrillic non-latin non-greek from the player)?
00:08:47linuxstbKyin01: Sadly, no.
00:08:53Kyin01whats the highest storage it comes in
00:08:57Kyin0140?
00:09:14Bagderrasher: sure, I'll poke my script...
00:09:19markunKyin01: the Gigabeat S has an FM tuner, but that port is not ready yet
00:09:25rasherBagder: To see how much could be saved for different targets if the buffersize was calculated automatically
00:09:36linuxstb40GB is the most common, but there are also 60GB models. I've upgraded mine to 80GB (but those disks are now almost impossible to find).
00:09:40Bagderoh, it's in the middle of the build right now ;-)
00:09:42markunthere are some rare F60's, the S60 is more common
00:10:04Kyin01the 60gb will work on rockbox?
00:10:13linuxstbThe F60 will, yes.
00:10:17Kyin01cool thanks im going to check ebay for them
00:10:49amiconn4 inch screen, bah
00:11:06amiconnBut oled might be a good idea, and 120/160 GB would be nice
00:11:20linuxstbWhat arch is it?
00:11:34amiconnNo idea
00:11:41amiconnThat's the article I found: http://www.i4u.com/article13912.html
00:11:42Kyin01-_- not even 1 f60, just chargers and screen protectors
00:12:13rasheramiconn: well it's marketed as a pmp, so the screen makes sense
00:12:27amiconnyes, sure
00:13:17markunit's a photo player.. which also displays TV and videos, plays music, displays text..
00:13:25Kyin01at least they got an f40 :D if i cant find an ipod 60GB video than i will get the f40, its only going for 80$
00:13:28Bagderhttp://pastebin.ca/854050 <= the top 5 language sizes for each build
00:14:35rasherMore than 10000 bytes to be saved on player (ignoring the useless languages)
00:15:00Bagderyeah all the top-5 on the player aren't usable
00:15:06amiconnwrong
00:15:07rasherI thought russian worked?
00:15:11Bagderah right
00:15:18amiconnGreek and russian do work
00:15:35rasherRight, that too.
00:16:25rasherQuite a bit to be saved on the other archoses as well (is any other target in size-trouble?)
00:17:34soapLlorean, tell me if my last forum post is out of line.
00:18:05Lloreansoap: I like it
00:18:06 Quit ol_schoola ()
00:19:19amiconnrasher: None of the currently supported ones (i.e. downloadable), but the iFP might be
00:19:41amiconnNot sure how much ram the logikdax has
00:19:56J3TC-Hrmm..is the ymargin patch still usable?
00:20:06linuxstbThe logikdax has 2MB
00:20:11 Nick roxfan2 is now known as roxfan (n=dunno@131.49-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
00:20:24J3TC-I'm looking at the ymargin and it seems that viewports patch has modified the things ymargin is modifying in the lcd drivers
00:21:08rasheramiconn: saving 2-10kb seems like a worthy cause at any rate. And the largest benefit is for the targets that need it most. Now someone just needs to do it, I guess.
00:21:14linuxstbJ3TC-: Is that the "ymargin in scrollinfo" patch?
00:21:21J3TC-Yep
00:21:31 Join DGMurdockIII [0] (i=DGMurdoc@208-70-44-194.bb.hrtc.net)
00:21:36linuxstbThen I've no idea what it's meant to do.
00:22:08J3TC-something about scroll_thread becomes independent of any ymargin changes
00:22:14J3TC-Whatever that means >_>
00:22:49linuxstbWhich is what I don't understand - the ymargin should never change, even without viewports...
00:23:14linuxstbI'm assuming it's needed by the old custom line/list/whatever patches.
00:23:17 Join billytwowilly [0] (n=chris@S0106001d6046900d.cg.shawcable.net)
00:24:06J3TC-I think so too since it's pretty much in a couple of builds that uses those wps that needs those patches as well
00:24:41J3TC-Oh well, with the viewports being sync'ed in, most of those wps aren't going to work anyways
00:25:06J3TC-I'll just do a test build and see if still needs that ymargin stuff.
00:25:08Kyin01how awesome would that be if rockbox worked with cowan a2/d2s
00:25:09 Join moos [0] (i=moos@m148.net81-66-158.noos.fr)
00:25:51linuxstbSomeone is working on a D2 port, and making progress.
00:26:47BagderI'm sure he'll appreciate help
00:26:58DGMurdockIIIwhat about the creative zen one are they getting close
00:27:11Kyin01aw thats awesome, maybe i should wait before getting a player than =P
00:27:24LloreanDGMurdockIII: Nothing has changed on that one in a long while, or at least, nobody has reported any progress.
00:27:36 Join shotofadds [0] (n=5101670b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-1647e95762068d49)
00:27:49linuxstbSpeak of the devil ;)
00:28:18shotofaddsmoi?
00:28:18DGMurdockIIIare you sure saw a few people on forms that said the got it to load
00:28:35linuxstbshotofadds: Yes, someone just said it would be awesome if Rockbox worked on the D2...
00:28:43BagderDGMurdockIII: yes, but I find their progress level hard to figure out based on their postings there
00:28:46shotofaddsi tend to agree... :)
00:29:22Bagdershotofadds: you need to work faster! ;-P
00:30:18shotofaddsBagder: I know, I don't get much time to work on this (~1hr/day at the moment...)
00:30:40BagderI have full sympathy for that
00:30:54*Bagder hasn't done much rockbox work lately at all
00:31:06pixelmasympathy for the deviil? (sorry couldn't resist ;) )
00:31:21 Quit billytwowilly (Remote closed the connection)
00:31:22Bagdernigth
00:31:38DGMurdockIII(Bagder): http://www.epizenter.net/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?145054
00:31:41shotofaddsi'm thinking of committing my initial patch..it's still just a bootloader test program at the moment with some work-in-progress towards a main build. http://pastebin.ca/854066 if anyone's interested.
00:31:41 Join billytwowilly [0] (n=chris@S0106001d6046900d.cg.shawcable.net)
00:32:21linuxstbshotofadds: What low-level stuff is implemented now?
00:33:26shotofaddslinuxstb: not a great deal more than you have on the Logix Dax, I've mainly been having I2C fun with the power management chip
00:33:29 Join hdwa [0] (n=fbi@cpe-65-185-86-91.neo.res.rr.com)
00:34:17shotofaddsmy task this week is to read something (anything!) from the flash
00:34:26linuxstbshotofadds: You may want to disable plugins for now (the plugins= variable in tools/configure).
00:35:18 Join PPPP_ [0] (n=plui@bas8-toronto63-1096669723.dsl.bell.ca)
00:35:36linuxstbThat's my next job for the logik dax as well - I've started looking at it, but that's about all.
00:35:55 Quit ender` (" The likelihood of Perl being involved in a system is directly proportional to the length of time the system has been in mai")
00:36:12shotofaddslinuxstb: disabling plugins might be an idea. the main build doesn't quite link because the debug menu expects to find ata_get_identify() and I don't understand the ATA code structure well enough yet.
00:36:34Kyin01the ipod 60GB photo will work on rockbox right? its not only the 40gb?
00:37:24 Quit TMM ("Ex-Chat")
00:37:25shotofaddslinuxstb: I can see how to read the ID code from the flash chip, but that's about all I understand for now
00:39:21BigBambiKyin01: yes
00:40:28amiconnshotofadds: If your target isn't ata, you need to set the approprate macros in your target config-*.h
00:40:52amiconnAnd then the debug menu won't require ata_get_identify()
00:41:02JdGordon.vp or .viewport or? for the viewport config filename?
00:41:40linuxstbThe debug menu seems to assume ATA if !HAVE_MMC and !HAVE_HOTSWAP,,,
00:42:45shotofaddsThe D2 test program also reads the touchscreen X/Y and pressure, I think for now I should add this into the button driver as per Llorean's suggestion on the forum (ie. divide the screen into quadrants and use as up/down/left/right for the time being)
00:42:51amiconnMaybe those macros need a bit of interdependency cleanup
00:42:55shotofaddslinuxstb: that's exactly the problem
00:43:14linuxstbJdGordon: Why not just store them in the global settings struct and .cfg?
00:43:55JdGordonbecause that will add up to alot... up to 10 extra variables for each viewport...
00:44:00 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
00:44:05JdGordonor save the filename and load them seperatly
00:44:19linuxstbBut you have to store them somewhere...
00:44:33JdGordonyeah, they get loaded straight into the viewport struct
00:44:55linuxstbYes, a viewport struct as part of global settings.
00:45:14amiconnWhat would that viewport config do?
00:45:40JdGordonset the position and size and colours...
00:45:55amiconnPosition of what?
00:46:00JdGordonthe viewport
00:46:09amiconn_what_ viewport?
00:46:13amiconn(s)
00:46:45 Quit |AhIoRoS| (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:46:59JdGordonfor now only the one for the lists, but that could end up being a seperate one for menu and browsers, then theirs the wps parent vp... adding each one to the settings struct isnt nice imo
00:47:38*amiconn cannot imagine anything that should be configurable about that viewport
00:47:44shotofaddsIf anyone looks at that D2 patch and sees something bad/nasty/evil/wrong do mention it here and I'll pick it up from the logs tomorrow. I'm out of here for the night.
00:47:52amiconnSize/position parameters, I mean
00:48:07JdGordon"that viewport" being which one?
00:48:42amiconnlists
00:48:54Lloreanamiconn: There's been a custom list position patch for a long, long time
00:49:02JdGordondont worry... vharcell wont be configurable..
00:49:08JdGordoncharcell*
00:49:12amiconnStandard lists should use whatever the statusbar + buttonbar leave
00:49:38amiconnWasting space is never a good idea...
00:50:02LloreanYeah, but users shouldn't be forced to use what we think is "a good idea" all the time
00:50:12 Join |AhIoRoS| [0] (n=ahioros@201.226.58.34)
00:50:25LloreanIf they want to waste half their screen on a backdrop image they don't want text scrolling over, I don't see why we should disallow them if viewports can handle it anyway.
00:51:23 Quit shotofadds ("CGI:IRC")
00:51:53J3TC-Hrmm
00:52:16 Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
00:52:22J3TC-Do I have to update my cygwin?
00:52:33linuxstbamiconn: This is the kind of use for it - http://pijulius.com/julius/images/jclix1m.jpg
00:52:33J3TC-I get errors trying to compile rockbox without patches/mods
00:53:13linuxstbJ3TC-: Has it ever worked for you?
00:53:39J3TC-Yeah..my last build was in november tho
00:53:45J3TC-Right before the MoB commit
00:53:55linuxstbNothing has changed with the required build tools since then.
00:55:01 Join Shaid` [0] (i=shaid@124-168-82-182.dyn.iinet.net.au)
00:55:06J3TC-http://pastebin.com/d74685ba5
00:55:08J3TC-I get this now
00:55:09J3TC-O_o
00:55:29J3TC-It seems to be still compiling but I never received that before
00:55:55*Nico_P doesn't get the point of LogoSwapper
00:56:04linuxstbNico_P: To swap logos ;)
00:56:20Nico_Pyeah but why not simply compile a build?
00:56:33linuxstbFor an average user, it's not simple.
00:56:41Nico_Ptrue
00:56:49 Quit matsl ("Riece/3.1.2 XEmacs/21.5-b28 (fuki, linux)")
00:57:00Nico_PI guess the average user won't care about not having the source either ;)
00:57:02J3TC-http://pastebin.com/d6aa062e7
00:57:07J3TC-I get that now :3
00:57:39 Quit PPPP (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:58:24LloreanIt's too bad there's not a way to customize the boot logo in a soft way that doesn't have a negative impact for non-users of the feature
00:59:11linuxstbLoading the splash from disk defeats the whole purpose (displaying something whilst Rockbox is initialising the hardware). So swapping it in the binary isn't that a solution...
00:59:21linuxstb^I mean that bad of a solution
00:59:50JdGordonbut the people that want a different logo shown dont care about the slowdown
01:00
01:00:30JdGordon7538 actually *adds* a sleep doesnt it?
01:00:39LloreanJdGordon: The problem is that to check if there's one present slows down the boot for people who don't use it too
01:00:50Lloreanlinuxstb: Maybe another feature for RBUtil? :-P
01:01:17 Quit Robin0800 (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client")
01:01:25J3TC-Meh
01:01:29J3TC-Keeps giving me that error
01:01:36JdGordonLlorean: I know... im all in favour of closing that stupid task
01:01:56safetydanyou could solve it by removing the boot logo
01:01:59LloreanJdGordon: Do it. "Rejected: No solution without a negative impact"?
01:02:06Lloreansafetydan: Just boot silently?
01:02:26JdGordonI love how you just wait long enough and you'll eventually get the answer you want :)
01:02:28safetydanLlorean: pretty much. Go with the Unix philosophy of not saying anything unless something bad happened
01:02:30linuxstbJ3TC-: Have you tried deleting your build directory, and starting again with a new one?
01:03:03J3TC-Yep
01:03:33J3TC-I don't even know why it's looking for apps/features folder O_o
01:04:01linuxstbThat a file, and it's used to decide what strings to include in the language and voice files.
01:04:17Kyin01which do you guys recommend for a rockbox ipod. Video or Photo? I won't use the video but I'm just afraid the photo screen will not be as good for UI when navgigating through the menus
01:04:53Lloreansafetydan: It's probably too late to get away with that. If we'd never had a splash, yeah, but now people will just hack one back into the unsupported builds.
01:05:09 Quit moos ("Good night")
01:05:35linuxstbKyin01: I own both, and would say the video sounds noticably better than the photo.
01:06:09amiconnI'd prefer the video over the photo for its display (readable without backlight)
01:06:39Nico_Pis the negative impact of a simple check really that big? I have a hard time seeing how it could be
01:06:44Kyin01does that mean i wont be able to use the screen on the photo at dark places?
01:06:50safetydanLlorean: true, but they're hacking it anyway for the custom splash patch, so going one step further and removing boot splash won't change much.
01:06:53linuxstbThe photo's display is readable without backlight as well.
01:07:00amiconnNico_P: Of course. It would have to wait for the disk spinup
01:07:22amiconnThat could be several seconds - and it would defeat the purpose of a splash
01:07:27Kyin01what about battery, does the rockbox give better support for the photo or video ipod
01:07:29LloreanNico_P: For it to be configurable you basically have to parse the config file before showing any logo, then load, then display the logo. It also means you need to have another fullscreen buffer reserved just for that logo display.
01:07:37J3TC-Do I need to update ?gcc
01:07:48Nico_Pamiconn: isn't the disk already spun up when loading the main bin? and I'm talking about a check to see whether to load an external bmp or not
01:07:55amiconnLlorean: The buffer could be temporary
01:08:04Lloreanamiconn: True
01:08:04*J3TC- sighs...I may have to reinstall everything :3
01:08:14Nico_PLlorean: the config file is parsed anyway
01:08:15amiconnNico_P: I'm always thinking about running the main bin from flash one day
01:08:16LloreanNico_P: Not all targets boot from disk.
01:08:33linuxstbJ3TC-: Try the following - create a new, clean build directory, run ../tools/configure, then type "make &> logfile.txt" and upload the created logfile.txt to pastebin.
01:08:47J3TC-Okies
01:08:57LloreanNico_P: You're more than welcome to create a patch without a performance hit for non-users and prove us wrong, though. :)
01:09:01Nico_Pthen let's focus on those maybe... I agree it wouldn't make much sense for a flashed bin, but someone who flashes the bin probably doesn't care about the slapsh
01:09:04*Llorean wouldn't mind a customizable boot splash.
01:09:45Nico_Pwhat kind of a hit does the current patch have?
01:09:46linuxstbA "logoswapper" type app could work with a flashed binary...
01:09:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:10:41Kyin01this guy says his ipod photo is a 4th generation, 4th generation ipod photos will work on rockbox right? and is there a reformat option before I install rockbox? this guy's ipod has 12k songs on it and I want to format it before I transfer my songs
01:11:08JdGordoncouldnt logoswapper work on the loaded rockbox. file anyway? seen as the only data changing is static?
01:13:16Nico_PJdGordon: that limits it to pics of the exact same size though
01:13:17 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:14:03JdGordondoesnt logoswapper do that also though?
01:14:04Nico_PI just don't see how the performance hit could be that big on an hd target
01:14:11Nico_PJdGordon: it does
01:14:17 Quit Shaid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:14:18 Nick Shaid` is now known as Shaid (i=shaid@124-168-82-182.dyn.iinet.net.au)
01:15:05 Quit bertrik ("bye")
01:15:09amiconnNico_P: Spinup time of most hdds is around 2.5..3 seconds
01:15:13linuxstbKyin01: I've already said that any hard-disk ipod apart from the Classic will work... And yes, you can simply reformat the main FAT32 partition on an ipod with no ill effects.
01:16:07Nico_Pamiconn: but the disk is already spun up (assuming the binary is loaded from there, which is true in 99% of cases), isn't it?
01:16:11LloreanNico_P: If I recall, by the time the image could be loaded and displayed on disk based targets, enough booting was done that it flashed and was gone, so the patch on the tracker actually added an intentional delay. I'm not sure how long it is without the intentional delay.
01:16:19amiconnThat's a significant part of boot time, during which the main binary normally does quite some initialisation when it's loaded (or even run) from flash
01:17:31JdGordon.... except... we can stop a spinup by simply checking if global_settings.splashbmp[0] != '\0'
01:17:32Nico_Pamiconn: as I said earlier, I don't think a binary loaded from flash is the main topic here
01:17:48linuxstbNico_P: If you want to test, just move show_logo() to after load_settings() in apps/main.c...
01:17:51amiconnNico_P: Judging from my targets, only 67% load their main binary from disk
01:18:04Nico_PI'm assuming the binary is loaded from the HD, but Llorean's argument makes sense
01:18:31JdGordonamiconn: but 99% of real users targets do load from disk
01:18:38Nico_Pamiconn: I'm thinking more in term of user percentage
01:18:49*amiconn is already annoyed by the long boot time of the irivers
01:19:39amiconn10 seconds from power-on until resume, twice as long as on recorder...
01:19:42pixelmaI think one of the core features of Rockbox is that it boots fast (booting into Sansa OF for data transfer takes ages)
01:19:53*JdGordon loves 3 sec from power to music with sansa :)
01:20:30amiconn3..4 seconds on Ondio, ~5 seconds on recorder and player (all when booted from flash)
01:21:03*amiconn would like it even shorter, but that's probably not going to happen
01:21:51Nico_Pthe gigabeat is annoying to that respect
01:22:04LloreanWell, booting Rockbox from flash on H100 series is mostly working, right?
01:22:04amiconnOn iriver it would probably help if the bootloader would use the pll clock, but that would make it less safe
01:22:55amiconnIn fact even a bootloader with up to date lcd drivers would gain a bit.
01:23:19Nico_Pwe got a blog post thanks to pictureflow :)
01:23:59JdGordonwhere?
01:24:01amiconnJdGordon: How would you do that? In order to check global_settings, you need to load them first
01:24:30Nico_PJdGordon: http://ariya.blogspot.com/2008/01/picking-up-where-apple-has-left-off.html
01:24:36Nico_Pwas on planet KDE
01:24:55amiconnThe purpose of the splash is to be shown *during* init, hence it must be displayed immediately, before any such init steps like loading the settings happen
01:24:55JdGordonamiconn: ah yeah, woops, thougght the logo was later in init
01:25:21amiconnAnd since it cannot use settings, it needs to be hardcoded. There's no way around that
01:25:46amiconnUsing any other method for the splash would defeat its purpose
01:25:49 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@resnet20.nat.lancs.ac.uk)
01:25:54JdGordonyeah, which is why we should just reject it and end the discussion
01:26:05*Nico_P agrees
01:26:17JdGordonNico_P: speaking of pictureflow... any idea why it has so muc trouble getting the track lists in the correct order?
01:27:00Nico_PJdGordon: no, currently it just does a DB request and gets the tracks in the order the DB spits them out... I need to look at DB code to see how tracks are sorted in there
01:27:20 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:27:35amiconnPictureflow doesn't seem to work here. Whenever I start it, it says 'no albums found', and quits
01:27:38Nico_PJdGordon: if and when you close the FS task as rejected, take the time to explain carefully why
01:27:54*pixelma mentions the pf pla conflicts (at least on c200) again...
01:28:27amiconnI have no cover bitmaps lying around, but I would expect it to either run and show all albums with placeholders, or at least display a correct error message
01:29:18pixelmain the current way (combining two contexts) you either have - no access to the menu or can't scroll through the track listing in an album
01:29:51Nico_Pamiconn: it's probably because you don't have any covers, yes... it should be fixed
01:30:31Nico_PI need to spend a bit of time on it, but lately I gave more priority to fixing playback bugs, I hope nobody minds :)
01:31:03amiconnhmmm
01:31:55amiconnI just got an idea (which I probably wouldn't use): what if pictureflow would be enabled to decode jpeg album art and save it as properly scaled bmps? :>
01:32:36 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
01:32:48Nico_Phehe not a bad idea actually... building the cache would probably take more time though
01:33:10Kyin01is it easy to navigate rockbox on an ipod photo? also is the battery on a rockbox photo fine?
01:33:55Kyin01its a 30$ difference from photo and video, and im pretty sure i never use any video files
01:34:08 Quit hdwa ()
01:34:33Kyin01i would get the gigabeat f, but all the 60GB are not found on ebay
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01:35:38J3TC-Ah..I found my problem
01:35:40J3TC->_>
01:36:28J3TC-I'm doing a make zip first before make
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01:37:20XavierGramiconn: if you are that annoyed by the slow iriver boot process I will suggest one more time to try to flash your H180
01:37:53amiconnNah, I won't risk that one
01:37:57XavierGrdrops boot time to around 5 seconds
01:38:44XavierGrwell Slasheri's bootloader worked for many, I don't see it that risky
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01:41:13Kyin01is the rockbox UI for ipod video and photo similar or really different?
01:42:35LloreanKyin01: As I've recommended already, there's a manual. Rockbox is basically the same program on all the players it runs on, though
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01:49:10JdGordonamiconn: can you try out a patch to make sure I havnt screwed up charcell?
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01:57:35Airsoftis there a way to boot to apple's oem firmware with rockbox installed on a 5th gen video ipod
01:58:30asnI checked http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61688 and I still don't get which iPod model I have. It's 60GB, the hold-button is on the upper left side, it has a colored display, and it can play videos/images.
01:59:17Airsoft^its a ipod 5th gen
01:59:27asnI see
01:59:41JdGordonasn: you want the builds for the video
02:00
02:00:08JdGordonAirsoft: iirc, its either make sure hold is on... or press menu while booting
02:00:34Airsoftok thanks
02:01:37Airsofti was too lazy to search the site :P
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02:06:13J3TC-Hrmm..the newlist.c gives out errors
02:06:14J3TC-:3
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02:14:26asnWhen I'm using the Rockbox Utility to automate my install and select Complete Installation I get a "Download error: received HTTP error 7143540"
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02:42:30 Join PR [0] (n=PR@24.178.233.201)
02:43:01PRI've looked around and can't find anything regarding the question I have
02:43:44LloreanJdGordon: Do you mean the feature that lets you scroll left/right for long named files in the list by holding left/right? I used that very frequently
02:44:07PRSo here it is and maybe someone else knows: I have the Sansa e200 series and have recently loaded rockbox onto it.a Rockbox decreases the battery life and I don't like that
02:44:20asnAw by the way, I started chceking out rockbox 15 minutes ago, and I have to say that the documentation is awesome
02:44:36PRThus I want to know if simply booting into factory fw will conserve the abttery like normal even with rockbox bootloader and app dumped onto the player
02:45:47PRI would imagine the answer is that yes, abttery acts like normal when in stock fw, but I thought I'd ask first
02:45:56scorchePR: rockbox isnt an app
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02:46:00linuxstbPR: Rockbox has no effect when the original (factory) fw is running. We're all very aware of the battery-life issues on the Sansas, but work is being done to improve it, and I think it's reached the stage where it's equivalent (or maybe better) with Rockbox (but those changes aren't in the builds yet).
02:46:04scorchebut i dont quite understand your question
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02:46:22scorcheah...i see now
02:46:35PRscorche: I know what rockbox is
02:47:45PRlinuxstb: From my short palying with the current build, it would seem that abttery life is greatly reduced. I'm not always going to need rockbox on, but don't want to remove it either
02:48:02PRI suppose that answers my question so thank you
02:48:03LloreanPR: Did you actually do a real battery test
02:48:20LloreanMost tests show only about 20-30% less battery life under Rockbox under similar conditions.
02:48:23linuxstbAlso, don't believe the battery indicator...
02:48:35PRLlorean: Nay, only personal observation and impression from trolling other battery tests and documentation
02:49:23PRI should also note that listening to music on stock fw obviously would take less battery than playing games on rockbox
02:49:26LloreanPR: People have a nasty habit of suggesting the battery life is much, MUCH worse when they've been using features like Caption Backlight that the original firmware doesn't offer (and is a real battery killer)
02:49:49PRI don't even know what caption backlight is
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02:50:43safetydanPR, turns the backlight on on every track change I believe.
02:50:54linuxstbPR: Yes, you definitely can't compare playing games in Rockbox (lots of backlight activity) with listening to music...
02:52:03PRAh, yeah. Well, even the slightest chance of reduced battery life isn't what I'm looking for. I jsut want to boot into riockbox when I need it (mpegs and such)
02:55:17PRExcellent fw btw, I jsut don't see it as practical for every day use
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02:56:27LloreanI don't often need to use my player more than 14 hours a day
02:57:36PRRight, but it's nice not to have to charge every day
02:58:09*Llorean doesn't see any real reason not to, but whatever.
02:58:36PRBecause I have a google handheld devices and charging them all every day gets to be a hassle
02:59:07LloreanThe number's actually "googol", just as a point of interest.
02:59:42LloreanI'm just saying though, that calling the firmware impractical for every day use is a little bit extreme.
03:00
03:00:25PRI didn't mean that as an umbrella, I meant that for my uses
03:00:57PRNot every day use in general, but my every day use
03:01:08ThundercloudHay gies
03:01:09ThundercloudQuick question
03:01:20ThundercloudiPod FM receiver accessories don't work with rockbox, right?
03:02:09asnAlright, I just installed Rockbox. Right now in my iPod root directory I have these: Calendars Contacts Music Notes Photos WMPInfo.xml iPod_Control . Which of them should I keep and which should I delete? Also I told Rockbox to update my files, shouldn't it find my music even tho it's deep down a retarded directory scheme (the documentation says no)
03:02:29krazykitThundercloud, that information is on the wiki, linked from the ipod page, i believe
03:03:00Lloreanasn: Where does the documentation say it won't be able to find it?
03:03:16asn. If you have loaded music onto your player using Itunes, you will not be able to see your music because Itunes changes your files? names and hides them in directories in the Ipod_Control directory
03:03:25LloreanYOU will not be able to see the music.
03:03:31LloreanAs in, "it doesn't show up in the filetree in a normal way"
03:03:36asnAww
03:03:38Thundercloudkrazykit: ok
03:03:38asnI see
03:03:45LloreanThe database will index it just fine.
03:03:51LloreanAs long as it's in a format Rockbox can use.
03:04:12PRAnyway thanks for the info guys, hope I didn't offend
03:04:14LloreanAs for deleting folders, you can delete any of them you want, of course some of them may contain music or other files you want, but Rockbox don't care either way.
03:04:25asnLlorean: I see. Thank you!
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03:09:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:12:52 Join Tigerplug [0] (n=Tigerplu@89.100.141.160)
03:13:09Tigerplughey room - I've read the wiki but having problems installing
03:14:06scorchefor installing, you should be reading the manual...not the wiki
03:14:09TigerplugI've installed rockbox but can't get any skins/fonts installed Im using Ubuntu linux
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03:24:18sephiroth555does it support ipod classic frimware 1.0.3
03:24:32sephiroth555cuase the patcher cant find my ipod
03:25:17LloreanThe iPod Classic isn't supported at all
03:25:23LloreanWhich is kinda why it says it isn't on the front page.
03:25:50TigerplugI've read everybit of documentation I can get on it scorche
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03:26:34sephiroth555then why does it have the file for the 80gig
03:27:35Lloreansephiroth555: The 80gig 5.5G iPod.
03:28:39sephiroth555srry for beinga little noobish but
03:28:47sephiroth555what does 5.5g mean
03:28:51scorcheTigerplug: so what issues are you having with installing them? (sorry...i may be delayed...eating)
03:28:55LloreanThe second version of the 5th generation iPod.
03:29:15LloreanThe "iPod Classic" can be considered the 6th generation of iPod.
03:30:08sephiroth555will there ever be support for my ipod
03:30:35scorchesephiroth555: someone would have to come forward and work on it...no one has
03:30:39Tigerplugafter I installed I got a screen with apple os , disk mode or sleep
03:30:45Tigerplugselected apple OS
03:30:48Tigerplugand its still the same
03:31:01scorcheTigerplug: that is the ipodlinux bootloader...not the rockbox bootloader
03:31:06sephiroth555is there an alternative to rockbox
03:31:15scorchesephiroth555: not for the classic
03:31:15sephiroth555something as good
03:31:19Tigerplugscorche - what should I do so?
03:31:34Tigerplugif I want to use the ipod linux bootloader , what does that do?
03:31:36scorcheTigerplug: you should install rockbox the way it is said in our manual
03:31:47scorchewhy do you want to use that bootloader?
03:32:09Tigerplugit was recommended
03:32:12Tigerplugto me by a friend
03:32:23scorchefor what reason?
03:34:28TigerplugI dont know to be honest
03:34:40Tigerplughe said he used it... im using the rockboxutility now to install
03:34:59Tigerplugbut I get unsupported install method
03:35:01scorcheTigerplug: well, that bootloader is unsupported...if you would like support, you will need to use our bootloader
03:35:20scorchehrm?
03:35:31Tigerplugscorche - I will use your bootloader.
03:35:42TigerplugCan I just delete the ipodlinux bootloader?
03:36:19scorcheit doesnt reside on the main partition...you should be able to write over it with ours though
03:36:38Tigerplugand I should be able to do this with the rockbox utility?
03:37:22scorchei would think so...if you cant, use the manual install method as it says in the manual
03:38:33Tigerplugscorche - ok , if the utility doesn't work Ill use the install method mentioned.
03:38:34TigerplugThanks
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04:01:48 Quit sephiroth555 ()
04:02:10Kyin01does ipod work in UMS mode right out of the box?
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04:11:50JdGordonLlorean: yeah, that one... ok ill fix it
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04:16:48LloreanJdGordon: Especially with the preference of a lot of people to use large fonts, I think it's useful.
04:17:00LloreanI use a small font, but still end up needing it in a few cases
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04:17:19JdGordonok
04:17:35JdGordonlike I said.. i tihnk thats the only thing missing.. so testers go nuts :)
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04:19:55Falco98hey all
04:20:13psycho_maniachey
04:20:52Falco98anything exciting & new in Rockbox?
04:22:23asnit plays mp3
04:22:28asnthe SVN version
04:22:53psycho_maniaccheck http://www.rockbox.org/since-4weeks.html or the MajorChanges page on the wiki
04:23:41Falco98there's a SVN version of mp3?
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04:30:26safetydanasn: Rockbox has played MP3 files since... well since it was created nearly
04:30:40safetydanunless my sarcasm detector is off today
04:30:46asnit was the latter
04:32:02Falco98heh
04:32:16NumBeast_salanybody writing a jpeg codec?
04:32:29Falco98sorry, i was just asking conversationally, like what people in here are doing / looking forward to / excited about, no need to be snotty and point me to the changelog
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04:33:43NumBeast_salFalco98 unfortunately because this channel is logged people don't like conversationalists
04:33:52Falco98yeah
04:33:58*scorche faiuls to se anything snotty
04:34:03*scorche also fails to type
04:34:08Falco98hehe
04:34:09NumBeast_salFalco98 try #rockbox-community and I'm sure you'll get a better reaction
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04:34:27Falco98noted
04:34:40Falco98JdGordon: you around?
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04:42:40Falco98would anyone here be able to help me figure out how to write the code for a bool function that returns true/false based on whether the next song in a playlist is the next track on the same album as the currently-playing song?
04:43:02Falco98i figure it should be rather easy, but i don't know the internal code quite well enough to do it
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04:44:33safetydanFalco98: it would require the database. Unless you were willing to assume that songs in the same directory are from the same album. Then you could just compare the paths to the files
04:44:44Lloreansafetydan: I dunno
04:44:55LloreanThe WPS has access to Next Album as it is
04:45:03Falco98what, rockbox can't check the meta-info of the next song
04:45:05Falco98?
04:45:06LloreanEr, Next Track/Album/TItle
04:45:09Falco98yeah
04:45:15Falco98(what paul said)
04:45:22safetydanoh yeah
04:45:27safetydanwasn't thinking
04:45:30LloreanIt'd just require manually checking it, and trusting the tags
04:45:44Falco98for my purposes, that would be enough
04:45:46LloreanI'm curious what you're going to try to do with it though
04:45:55safetydanso then it's a strncmp somewhere
04:46:09LloreanAnd if current tracknum = next tracknum - 1
04:46:11Lloreaner ==
04:46:33Falco98i've been itching to write a tweak (if nothing more than for my own use) for Shuffle modes - so that rockbox could be set to always shuffle except in the case that the next song follows the currently-playing song
04:46:57psycho_maniacdo you mean like a into song that would lead into the next song?
04:46:57Falco98so basically an "Album Mode"
04:47:11psycho_maniacs/into/intro
04:47:11LloreanIsn't there already an album shuffle nowadays?
04:47:52Falco98oh crap
04:47:56Falco98i meant crossfade mode, i'm sorry
04:48:02psycho_maniacam i correct in this or do i need to explain more?
04:48:04*Falco98 's brain is dead this evening
04:48:40Falco98let me re-phrase: so that rockbox could be set to always *crossfade* except when two tracks follow each other
04:49:20safetydanFalco98: so if you're playing track 2 and the next is track 3, don't crossfade?
04:49:21Falco98so, for example, i could have a big shuffled playlist going, and at my whim i can insert a full album and it will play the songs un-crossfaded
04:49:25Falco98correct
04:49:37safetydanwhat about the case where currently playing track 2 but the next is track 10?
04:50:20Falco98if $album(nextsong) == $album(currentsong) && $tracknum(nextsong) == ($tracknum(nextsong) +1) then....
04:50:25Falco98return "true" or whatever
04:50:31Falco98then crossfade
04:50:51Falco98i'm considering only consecutive tracks, since they often lead into one another without a break
04:51:35Falco98if they're two songs that happen to be from the same album but aren't consecutive, then it's considered to still be random, and thus still crossfaded
04:52:24J3TC-Geh...shutdown_hold.patch isn't working anymore :[
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04:53:07psycho_maniacsounds like a nice idea but i dont even use crossfade.
04:53:39psycho_maniacif it could work like i want it i would probably use it, but i dont know how to code.
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04:54:32Falco98what do you want it to do, psycho?
04:54:51Falco98i've found it to be pretty flexible, even though the settings could be losslessly simplified by about a degree...
04:55:01psycho_maniacalways crossfade except when i skip tracks
04:55:13Falco98*except* when you skp tracks?
04:55:46Falco98i.e. you desire a hard break when you skip?
04:55:56psycho_maniacyes.
04:55:59Falco98hm
04:56:08Falco98it wouldn't be too hard to code..
04:56:38psycho_maniacI know a couple people like this idea in the forums, but i dont think devs like the idea.
04:56:51Falco98why do you want it that way, out of curiosity?
04:57:10Falco98i actually vastly prefer the opposite - i can't stand the hard-cut of skipping, and rockbox handles it really well with crossfade..
04:57:51psycho_maniacI dont like to wait for the crossfade to happen when i skip tracks for some reason.
04:58:12Falco98hm.. you could use a short crossfade i guess :-P
04:58:15Falco98but i can understand
04:58:40Falco98i think someone should work on having the system keep separate settings for crossfades when a track is skipped, versus when it naturally changes
04:58:50Falco98that is to say, fade times
04:59:55Falco98because when you skip a track, you may want the new track to begin immediately and fade in quickly, while the track fades out gradually, versus a natural change, when you want the fade to start near the end, but the new song to pick up early
04:59:57Falco98etc.
05:00
05:00:46Falco98if I were a better coder I'd do it myself, but i neither know the programming well enough, nor do i know the other rockbox code that would need to be tweaked to make it work
05:01:13Falco98another change that should happen to make the system functionally complete is, separating the crossfade "mode" settings out into individual booleans, i.e.:
05:01:19LloreanThere's a faction that doesn't like crossfade being there at all
05:01:51Falco98"crossfade in shuffle mode, yes/no" "crossfade on track skip, yes/no" "don't crossfade when tracks are consecutive, yes/no"
05:01:52LloreanIt complicates the playback a lot for a not terribly significant gain.
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05:02:22Falco98Llorean: but if you leave crossfade off altogether, doesn't it not make any difference to playback?
05:02:26Falco98or are you just referring to coding
05:02:29LloreanFalco98: Coding.
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05:02:34Falco98understood
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05:02:44Falco98to me, it's too big of an advantage to ignore
05:03:31Falco98and the settings i'm discussing wouldn't require any further complication in the playback code - that part is already written luckily, i'm just talking about interface/ settings tweaks
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05:11:49JdGordonFalco98: hey, sup?
05:12:00Falco98not much
05:12:13Falco98was gonna ask you kinda the same question that i asked just before
05:12:17Falco98just after i said hi :-P
05:12:34Falco98it's something i've been thinking about trying to work out for a while now..
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05:23:11uberjimhello is there someone i could talk to for rockbox support?
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05:24:47scorcheuberjim: just address your query to the whole channel, and someone will get to it sooner or later
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05:42:49Falco98uberjim: what's up?
05:43:00Falco98i could try to help a little..
05:43:51JdGordonhe's gone...
05:44:21Falco98oh, whoops
05:44:30Falco98JdGordon: did you see my question, then?
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05:47:55JdGordoni did, and i have no idea
05:48:06Toxicity999Do we offer any rendering of Japanese? It seems to just ignore the characters... which I could almost live with, but it locked up playing one.
05:48:36JdGordondoes your font have japanese characters?
05:48:56Toxicity999Ehh, good point, I was using everything stock.
05:49:12JdGordonthen it doesnt
05:50:18Toxicity999Freezing seemed to be a fluke too.
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06:19:23JdGordontesters needed for FS #8457
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06:42:22ddaltonanyone ever used the rockbox tracker with lynx?
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06:52:47Shadowmiteif you don't mind a quick non programming question, what's considered to be a good target device for rockbox these days for around 80 gigs of flac data?
06:53:29safetydanShadowmite: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BuyersGuide
06:54:12safetydanthough that's slightly out of date as the compatible Sansa ones are no longer in production
06:56:32Shadowmiteyea, that confirms what I'm guessing, the ipod is the only device that can do it
06:56:33Shadowmiteheh
06:56:39Shadowmite80 gigs that is
06:57:02Shadowmiteunless there are newer iriver models
06:57:18Shadowmitelast time I ran rockbox was back i the archos jukebox early days
06:57:22Shadowmitethe first platform
07:00
07:01:37DogBoyflac eh
07:02:28Shadowmiteyea, I finally wanted to geek myself out and get a portable player solution to run cd quality audio
07:02:42ShadowmiteI guess I could have gone apple lossless
07:02:51Shadowmitebut I really don't like apple
07:02:52Shadowmiteheh
07:03:12DogBoywaste of space really
07:03:50DogBoyon the portable anyway, I can't hear the difference (myself) and the larger files burn the battery faster too
07:04:14Mouser_XI'm running Linux now, and would prefer to build Rockbox from within Linux (as opposed to using cygwin). However, I can't seem to figure out how to setup the proper build environment. Any help? It would be greatly appreciated.
07:04:55Mouser_XI looked at HowToCompile, but I don't think that's in-detail enough.
07:05:18Mouser_X(I need to know what packages to download and such.)
07:05:25safetydanMouser_X: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CrossCompiler
07:05:39ShadowmiteI can't hear it most times
07:05:50Mouser_XThanks. I'll look.
07:06:04Shadowmiteit requires very special low vol classical music to really hear the difference
07:06:05Shadowmiteheh
07:06:22DogBoyhmm
07:06:23safetydanMouser_X: but basically if you're running ubuntu or similar "sudo apt-get install build-essential" will get everything you need to start building the cross compilers
07:06:45ddaltonMouser_X: Well just check out rockbox. apt-get install svn . or what distro are you running? then run the little shell script in trunk/tools to get the packages...
07:06:46safetydanfrom there you can checkout the source, run tools/rockboxdev.sh and go from there
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07:07:00ddaltoncompilers
07:07:11ddaltonthen adjust your path...
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07:08:32ddaltonok; sorry. has anyone had any luck with lynx and uploading files on the tracker?
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07:11:58Hilikushow much memory do plugins have?
07:13:11Mouser_XI'm running xubuntu.
07:13:14safetydanHilikus: I believe around 512 KiB on most targets
07:13:52Hilikusi have a plugin that im modifying, it has a mechanism to use the audio buffer ones it runs out of plugin memory
07:13:57Hilikusis that common?
07:14:05JdGordonyes
07:14:20JdGordonwell.. not common, but OK to use if its eneded
07:14:24JdGordonneeded*
07:14:45Hilikusok, so i think theres something not working in that mechanism, whenever i reach the max number RB freezes. it doesnt happen in the sim
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07:15:09Mouser_Xsafteydan: Thanks. I think that's probably the method I'll use. It sounds the simplest.
07:15:17Hilikusso i guess when it tries to allocate more memory it doesnt do it correctly
07:15:22Hilikusits a pretty old plugin
07:15:26JdGordonsound slike your doing somehing wrong
07:15:33Hilikusits the Contact plugin
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07:16:03JdGordonshow us a diff of your changes
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07:16:40Hilikuscan i just post the whole thing? its a pretty simple program
07:16:43JdGordonsoap: rasher: can you guys add 8457 to your viewports builds please?
07:16:57JdGordonyeah, put it on pastebin or something
07:17:16JdGordona diff would be better though... easier to see what youve broken
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07:18:59HilikusJdGordon http://pastebin.ca/854365
07:19:32Hilikusi didnt brake anything, i havent touched the "grab more memory" part
07:19:52JdGordonwhere is the problem?
07:19:54Hilikusi just added more fields to the structure so the struct is now bigger so i guess im using more memory than the original
07:21:24Hilikusline 348
07:21:30Hilikusi *think*
07:22:30Hilikuscause when theres not many contacts the thing works perfectly, and theres a point where if i add 1 more contact, it doesnt work. it actually loads the list and shows it, and then freezes with the HDD light on
07:23:12JdGordonwell i cant see anything obviously wrong there
07:24:16Hilikusmm ok, thats all i wanted to check. that it wasnt somethin obvios i.e. something that was ok whenever that guy wrote it but that doesnt work today
07:24:33JdGordonsizeof(*contact_list) should probably be sizeof(struct s_contact)
07:24:40JdGordonbut I dont think that would change anything
07:24:51JdGordonsame for *menu_items
07:25:38Hilikushow can i debug a plugin using the simulator?
07:25:46JdGordonand you can store more contacts if you make it not need to use the menu_items array
07:25:53JdGordongdb rockboxui
07:26:43Hilikusk
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07:35:59Hilikusis there a way to limit the amount of memory in the simulator?
07:36:18Hilikusto do a more realistic test
07:36:28JdGordonit is limited to the 32mb the target has
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07:37:42Hilikusreally??? then why is it that in the sim the plugin doesnt crash?
07:37:46Hilikusi thought it was that
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07:45:01JdGordonit could be alignment issues which only happen on target
07:45:35JdGordonI had that problem where it was fine on the sim and fine on h300 but the ipod crashed (or soemthing like that)
07:48:19Hilikushmm
07:48:23Hilikusi see
07:48:30Hilikusok, ill work on that tomorrow
07:48:35Hilikusthanks alot
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09:06:31Mouser_XI seem to have been disconnected while attempting to download the SVN. Is there anything I can do to "kickstart" it again?
09:06:54Mouser_XIt seems to be quite stuck.
09:08:16GodEaterctrl-c it and do it again ?
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09:08:56Mouser_XI guess that's better than waiting for it to do nothing...
09:09:42GodEaterit shouldn't matter either - svn will see how much it did before you disconnected
09:09:44GodEaterand carry on from there
09:10:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:50:55pixelmaam I correct in thinking that I could put this picture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:20070913_iPod_5-6_Gen_artist_view_side-by-side.JPG into our wiki?
09:51:38GodEateryep - that would be my understanding
09:52:51pixelmanice, anything else I have to pay attention to (mention where I got it from or link it - though that link could break one day)?
09:53:27GodEaterI'm not sure
09:53:38GodEaterit says it CC Attribution-Sharealike
09:53:46GodEaterI think that means you have to mention who took it
09:54:19LloreanIt's also under the Gnu FDL
09:54:23LloreanIt says you can pick either
09:54:53*pixelma does not know much about licensing...
09:55:19*Llorean really doesn't either
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09:55:57GodEaterI think all we have to do is say who took it, and make sure we make it available for download too (which we do, because it'll be in a wiki)
09:56:07GodEaterwe could also link to wikipedia too just to be safe :)
09:56:42pixelmaok, I think I could just mention the author and link it - for completeness and doesn't hurt
09:58:29GodEaterI think that's more then enough
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10:00
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10:02:52*markun curses at the slow forums
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10:03:05pixelmaLlorean: while you're here... I wonder how long your ToDo list is and if it is a good idea to remind you of the c200 description for the manual ;)
10:04:35LloreanAh, right. Yes, it's still on my list, I just haven't sat down and done anything like that recently
10:04:41LloreanThanks for the reminder though. :)
10:05:00pixelma:)
10:08:25pixelmaLlorean: I tried to write one myself but always ended up writing a long and confusing paragraph, e.g. I couldn't find a good description for the main button pad and things like the... I don't even know how it is called... the thing for the lanyard
10:08:55LloreanI wouldn't know what to call that either, honestly. :)
10:09:22LloreanWell, I've got a week until I'm back home and have access to my player again. Remind me repeatedly then, and I'll surely get it done as best I can. ;)
10:09:53pixelmaok, will go on nagging then ;)
10:10:52markunLlorean: where are you now?
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10:16:13Lloreanmarkun: Just in Houston with family.
10:17:37LloreanSat was my birthday and I decided to come visit them for it, especially since many of my old friends live in the area too.
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10:20:18pixelmabelated happy birthday! :)
10:20:44markunis it ok if I change the mpegplayer performance table to just have 1:1 4:3 and 16:9 for every target?
10:21:53markunLlorean: yes, from me too :)
10:22:50Lloreanmarkun: 1:1?
10:22:58markunfor the 128x128 targets
10:23:02LloreanAh
10:23:20LloreanI'd actually rather 4:3, 16:9, and 2.35:1, and leave off "Fullscreen" entirely
10:23:43LloreanExcept where it lines up with one of those by chance
10:24:17markunwell, I just do it the way I suggested and when there are some 2.35:1 ED videos available that can always be added
10:24:28LloreanSounds good.
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10:36:31markunLlorean: and I'll order them by brand and model instead of LCD size
10:37:47LloreanI thought someone just recently reordered them to LCD size, didn't they?
10:38:05*Llorean remembers someone asking about that just a couple days ago
10:38:13markunThat was the "Choosing a resolution" table
10:38:21markunand I was the one who reordered it :)
10:38:40markunbut there you have multiple targets sharing the same resolution
10:38:54markunin the performance table it's per target
10:39:36LloreanAaaah
10:39:37LloreanOkay
10:40:30markunI don't need to order them, but thought it might be easier when someone wants to look up the performance of his player
10:42:02markunhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer#Performance
10:43:34GodEaterif you run a "find . -name "blah" -exec some_command \{\} some_command_args output_file \; - where is the output file generated? The CWD of the find command, or the directory the file was found in?
10:43:45peturare those h300 figures correct?
10:44:07LloreanThere's no way those are correct
10:44:17markunpetur: let me check old table which I just removed..
10:44:34LloreanIt looks like you put 16:9's values in the 4:3 column and vice versa maybe?
10:44:35ZagorGodEater: where find runs
10:44:42Llorean4:3 should always be slower.
10:44:47peturLlorean: at least yes
10:44:49markunpetur: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer?rev=121
10:45:33markunoops :)
10:45:36LloreanjhMikeS: Is the gigabeat fast enough to play VCD cropped yet?
10:45:53GodEaterZagor: so any easy way to make the output file appear in the same directory as the input file the command is running on ?
10:46:53*GodEater should just read the "find" manual page
10:47:05ZagorGodEater: use -execdir instead of -exec
10:47:11amiconnLlorean: On small screens, it makes a lot more sense to have fullscreen versions of videos (cropping as necessary), than some standard aspects which waste a lot of precious screen space, imho
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10:47:58Lloreanamiconn: Ah, I hadn't thought of cropping a 16:9 to meet fullscreen resolution
10:48:06markunpetur: fixed. Thanks
10:48:08GodEaterZagor: hence my manual page comment - sorry - should have read it first =/
10:48:16LloreanI was just assuming people would keep the aspect ratio as source
10:48:23Zagorno problem
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10:48:47Rheeguys, is the last.fm plugin native in the builds or do you need to manually put it there?
10:49:27cool_walking_I think you guys should stop allowing HTML in the forum. It's annoying when my angle brackets disappear, and I just successfully injected Javascript.
10:49:47GodEaterRhee: it's always in the builds
10:50:07Rheeok.. now i better find a way to make it work
10:50:46peturRhee: just enable it and use qtscrobbler to upload
10:50:54markuncool_walking_: good idea. I don't know who's able to change that. Maybe Zagor or Llorean?
10:51:00pixelmaRhee: it's not a plugin though
10:51:04Rheeqtscrobbler being a desktop application?
10:51:12peturyes
10:51:17Rheeand does it upload the scrobbler.log file in my iriver?
10:51:20Lloreanmarkun: In theory HTML in posts is already disabled. In fact, the forum software hates me.
10:51:28peturRhee: yes
10:51:30Rheewell that was astupid question
10:51:34Rheeof course it does
10:51:36Rheethx :)
10:57:19Rheebtw, is there a misticriver chat room somewhere?
10:58:46LloreanYou should probably ask that somewhere that's likely to actually know...
10:58:48markunRhee: google gave me this: http://www.misticriver.net/forums/news-posts/4398-misticriver-net-chatroom.html
10:59:12markunbut the link doesn't seem to do anything
10:59:38markun(besides brining me to the homepage)
10:59:44Rheellorean : this is as close to iriver community i got to on irc
10:59:54peturthere are irc details on that page however...
11:00
11:00:00Rheemarkun : yeah looke around their page and their link is dead
11:00:40LloreanRhee: That doesn't mean it is in any way related to misticriver though. Wouldn't posting on their boards and asking be much more logical?
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11:10:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:11:32amiconnmarkun: Our reference video should really be reencoded with mpeg2 main profile for all resolutions
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11:13:07markunamiconn: which profile is used now?
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11:18:14amiconnsimple profile, which excludes B frames
11:18:34amiconnBut B frames are actually faster to decode than I and P frames afaik
11:20:04LloreanI use ffmpeg with -vcodec mpeg2video -qscale 6 -s XxY -mbd rd -cmp 2 -subcmp 2 -g 15 -bf 2 for my personal encodes these days and it seems to work out pretty well, though to be honest I'm not entirely sure if they're optimal (and I'm not 100% sure mbd rd is relevant for mpeg 2)
11:21:29cool_walking_When UMS is done, will booting the Apple firmware be moved somewhere more out-of-the way than "hold switch on"? Before connecting my iPod, I always have the hold switch on due to the iPod having just been in my pocket, and when Rockbox's UMS is complete, I'd prefer to use it. I think I read someone commenting that behavior would be changed to Rockbox booting by default from a cold boot even when the hold
11:21:58peturvery slow echo...
11:22:00GodEatercool_walking_: I doubt that this behaviour will be changed
11:22:08cool_walking_damn
11:22:23GodEaterthe hold switch is the only really reliable "key press" we can detect at boot - which is why it's used.
11:22:37cool_walking_makes sense.
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11:40:50markunlinuxstb: how big is the 'master' ED video from which you encoded the others?
11:41:59Lloreanmarkun: The master I used for some personal tests was 815mb, but it's hardly necessary to use the 1080p encode, I just wanted to test a few other things with it too, and didn't see the need to download multiple copies of the movie.
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11:44:10bEnNhey
11:44:12bEnNne1 here?
11:44:33*GodEater waits for bEnN to speak english
11:44:53Bagderthere's no ne1 in here!
11:44:55bEnNdo you know anything about the rockbox ipod launcher
11:45:08bEnNsorry for the internet speak
11:45:17bEnNi fogot about that here
11:45:45GodEaterbEnN: what specifically do you want to know ?
11:46:07bEnNis there a way to change the launcher from defualting to load the rockbox platform
11:46:19bEnNinstead only load while the hold switch is on
11:46:19GodEaterbEnN: only by building it yourself
11:46:33bEnNwould I br able to just swap some code in the file
11:47:33GodEaterdepends what you mean by "just"
11:48:01markunbEnN: basically yes
11:48:23bEnNthe way it is set up at the moment is that ipod menu wil only load when the hold switch is on
11:48:36bEnNi want it so rockbox wopens when the hold switch is on
11:48:54GodEaterI don't really understand the need for this though. Once you've booted into the Apple OS - it STAYS there until you perform a hard reset.
11:48:57markunthere might be a patch for it, let me look
11:49:14LloreanGodEater: Or until you don't touch your iPod for like... two days or so.
11:49:25bEnNi mean when i preform a hard reset, i want it to load default into the apple firmwire
11:49:32GodEaterLlorean: or that
11:49:39bEnNand make rockbox open with the switch on
11:49:43GodEaterbEnN: how often do you do that though ?
11:49:48bEnNalot
11:49:55bEnNi play games in rockbox and music in apple
11:49:57LloreanbEnN: Well, you'll just have to learn to compile.
11:50:02bEnN...
11:50:14GodEaterbear in mind once you've done this, your Rockbox install becomes unsupported...
11:50:17LloreanIf I remember correctly, it can be changed by adding a single ! in the right place. One character, compile, done.
11:50:47bEnNhow would i do that?
11:50:49markunbEnN: maybe you can ask in the unsupported builds forum if someone wants to build such a bootloader for you
11:51:01 Quit perplexity (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
11:51:04LloreanbEnN: As I said, learn to compile. There's a wiki page called SimpleGuideToCompiling
11:51:12bEnNok ty
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11:51:36bEnNis the code hard to understand?
11:51:52LloreanIf you know C, it should be trivial.
11:51:54GodEateragain, depends
11:52:05LloreanIf you don't, well, kinda depends on you at that point
11:52:38markunbEnN: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/bootloader/ipod.c?view=markup
11:52:58markunbEnN: look for "Loading original firmware"
11:55:14bEnNa quwstion, is this bootloader made to support ipod linux aswell?
11:55:31LloreanIt can load iPL yes.
11:55:39bEnNby pressing play
11:56:00markunyou can read C code! :)
11:56:25bEnNbarely
11:56:33bEnNis this what i want
11:56:35bEnN(button_was_held || (btn==BUTTON_MENU))
11:56:45bEnNif (button_was_held || (btn==BUTTON_MENU)) {
11:56:46bEnN /* If either the hold switch was on, or the Menu button was held, then
11:56:48bEnN try the Apple firmware */
11:57:14bEnNand put the buttonwasheld part in this?
11:57:16bEnNelse {
11:57:17bEnN printf("Loading Rockbox...");
11:57:19bEnN rc=load_firmware(loadbuffer, BOOTFILE, MAX_LOADSIZE);
11:57:58LloreanbEnN: Please, read the channel guidelines.
11:58:09markunwell, you could swap the code after this "if" with the code after the "else"
11:59:10bEnNelse if (button_was_held)) {
11:59:11bEnNprintf("Loading Rockbox...");
11:59:13bEnNrc=load_firmware(loadbuffer, BOOTFILE, MAX_LOADSIZE)
11:59:15bEnNwould that perhaps work?
12:00
12:00:28bEnNMArkun: i will use your idea
12:02:15markunbEnN: here you can find out how to compile: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DocsIndex#For_Developers
12:03:14bEnNthis would need to be done in linux?
12:04:57markunno, you can also use windows, OSX and unix like OSes
12:05:23markuntry the "simplified" guide
12:05:45bEnNif i used windows i would need to use cygin or vmware
12:05:53bEnNneither are really an option for me unfortunatly
12:06:25markunwhy not?
12:06:34bEnNvmware requires big download
12:06:45bEnNand i dont really like cygin...
12:06:49bEnNhavent used but am scared of it
12:07:01Bagderthen go linux!
12:07:02bEnNi can install linux on a flash drive quickly
12:07:09markunyou could try to ask for help in the "unsupported builds" forum. The people who make those builds know how to compile
12:07:13Bagdernot that I see how linux will be a smaller download...
12:07:19bEnNoh...
12:07:37bEnNi have a certain live cd already
12:08:09bEnNif it was out of the box linux would i jyust be able to follow these instructions - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CygwinDevelopment
12:08:19bEnNand only download the svn
12:09:24bEnNif i did use cygin, how easy would it be
12:10:04*markun never used cygwin
12:10:21BagderbEnN: it's the exact same process, linux or cygwin
12:10:36bEnNbut if i had linux already installed, how much would i need to download
12:11:29markunthe rockbox source and a tool which builds the toolchain would need to download the gcc and binutils sources
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12:12:11Bagdergcc and binutils are some 20-30MB, the rockbox tarball some ... 6MB?
12:12:41*Bagder guesstimates
12:13:56bEnNand once all that is installed, how would i go about changing the file and re instaling it on ym ipod
12:14:10bEnNi know the file i needto change
12:14:52markunjust edit the file and then follow the normal build instructions
12:15:23bEnNok
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12:16:21bEnNso get the rockbox source, get gcc and binutils (ill google them later) install them or whateva on my linux distro and follow the guide from there?
12:16:27bEnNand finaly reinstall as normal
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12:18:27Bagderyou don't need to get gcc and binutils manually, just run tools/rockboxdev.sh under linux
12:18:35Bagderand it'll download, build and isntall them for you
12:19:27bEnNand that is in the rockbox source tarball?
12:19:31Bagderyes
12:19:34bEnNok
12:19:39bEnNi only have one more problem
12:19:58bEnNit will build like the daily builds appear right?
12:20:05Bagderyes
12:20:14bEnNthe file i ned to modify is the boot loader
12:20:21Bagderwell, you need to build the boot loader only
12:20:24bEnNand i think it is seperate to the ddailly build
12:20:45bEnNthe boot loaders in the tarall?
12:20:50bEnNtarball?
12:27:03bEnNty for all the help
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12:28:51markunIn a few years when bEnN is one of the lead developers of rockbox he will look back in amusement at these IRC logs :)
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12:32:11GodEaterin a few years from now, when he's nowhere to be seen, you'll look back on these IRC logs and wonder what you were smoking...
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12:35:30diesseitshello, hoping someone could help me with a database issue on ipod 4g...
12:36:28diesseitsinitialisation of the db keeps locking up at around 2300 tracks.
12:37:18cool_walking_do you have spare space on your disk?
12:37:40diesseitsabout 3.6gb free (of 20gb)
12:37:47cool_walking_well that's me spent... who's up next?
12:38:11GodEatersome music file with bad tags
12:38:15GodEaterthat's usually the issue
12:38:18diesseitsi suspect that'
12:38:25diesseitss the case ... any way to tell which?
12:39:09GodEaterI think the way most people do this is to remove all tracks from the player, and then copy them back on in chunks
12:40:42diesseitsdamn, so no logging I can switch on? do you know of any finicky audio programs for PCs which might also pick up the problem (amarok doesn't seem to object to any of them)
12:43:31cool_walking_What do you mean "bad tags"? As in they don't conform to the standard, or just something Rockbox can't handle, like strange characters? If it's the former, wouldn't ogginfo/mp3info pick it up?
12:44:46GodEaterI would imagine something like enormous embedded album art or something
12:45:01GodEaterthere are tons of threads on this issue in the forum
12:45:08GodEaterit would be best to check those
12:45:17GodEaterI don't recall details myself as it's never happened to me
12:45:44LloreanYeah, "good" tags can still choke it up if they're technically valid, but beyond the scope of what our parser's prepared to handle.
12:45:54LloreanIt's not good at "reject the file, and fail gracefully" yet.
12:46:16diesseitsi'll check out mp3/ogginfo before troubling you further. thanks.
12:46:22markunfunny hypothetical conversation at a chinese DAP manufacturer: http://dapreview.net/comment.php?comment.news.4211
12:46:48GodEaterhehe
12:47:13Bagder:-)
12:47:29Bagderengineering pride
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12:48:41markunI believe that copying something has traditionally seen as a compliment to the original creator in China. I wonder if they still think like this.
12:49:35Bagderthey simply don't have our way of looking at ownership
12:49:47markunironic how those copies are sometimes better (at least for me) compared to the original.
12:50:18Bagderwe must not underestimate what the Chinese can do
12:51:06markunmeizu started off with ipod clones and makes really nice players these days
12:52:46amiconnBagder: Your guesstimation was somewhat off. My cygwin /opt/arm and /opt/m68k are 58MB each, and /opt/sh1 is 76MB
12:52:46markunhttp://en.meizu.com/product_list.asp?gotoBt=2
12:53:06Bagderamiconn: download size...
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13:52:22pacroonrasher:
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13:52:43Bagder /echo off
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14:02:52GodEaterstill no joy on finding someone with an original karma CD that has the eCos diffs on it then :(
14:06:25GodEaterhttp://blag.xkcd.com/2008/01/14/robot9000-and-xkcd-signal-attacking-noise-in-chat/ <−− an anwer to the SNR on the forums ? :)
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14:17:47pondlifeThe clock plugin uses the term "English format" to mean M-D-Y, even though in England we use D-M-Y (aka European format). Anyone object if I change the wording?
14:17:58LinusNplease do
14:18:56pondlifeI'll go for non-geographical names; less confusing hopefully.
14:19:58pondlifeOr, probably better to just include (Y-M-D) or whatever...
14:20:00 Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection)
14:22:26linuxstbpondlife: I agree, just show the format, and not try and name it (i.e. Y-M-D)
14:22:36BagderI find the names... odd
14:22:37pondlifeI've done both :/
14:22:45Bagderwe seem to use the Japanese here ;-)
14:23:05pondlifehaha
14:23:14pondlifeFeel free to update again if you wish
14:23:57pondlifeI was thinking also that the 12/24 hour mode choice should just be taken from Rockbox settings, but not sure how easy it is to do that from a plugin.
14:24:17pondlifeAnd then the date format should be a Rockbox setting anyway.
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14:24:48linuxstbThe global_settings struct is exported to plugins, so it should be straightforward.
14:25:15pondlifeWould anyone want their clock plugin to have different settings to Rockbox?
14:25:23pondlifeI can't think of a reason.
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14:36:53pixelmapondlife: why not leave the choice in the plugin?
14:37:11pondlifeIt just seems like something to configure in two places at the moment
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14:50:14Casainho /msg NickServ IDENTIFY chave
14:50:38Casainhothats my password :-) LOL
14:51:20LinusNlol
14:51:53Casainho"chave" means key, in Portuguese :-) ;-)
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14:52:23Casainhoeasy passwords, mines ;-) :-)
14:52:57asnGreetings. I installed rockbox in my 5G iPod Video yesterday and I have many freezing problems. It just freezes when I try to enter menus/delete files/change themes, etc.
14:53:42GodEaterasn: Which installation instructions did you use ?
14:54:12asnhttp://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-build.html
14:55:01GodEaterwhat size disk is in your 5G ?
14:55:09asn60GB
14:55:25GodEateris this what it came with originally ?
14:55:41asnyes
14:55:59GodEaterso you're using the 60/80 GB rockbox build then ?
14:56:45asnWell, I didn't use Rockbox Utility, but yes, I guess that's what I'm doing
14:56:50asnIs there a way to double check that/
14:57:05GodEaterwell which file did you download to do your install ?
14:57:24GodEaterhttp://build.rockbox.org/dist/build-ipodvideo/rockbox.zip or http://build.rockbox.org/dist/build-ipodvideo64mb/rockbox.zip ?
14:57:41asnThe first.
14:58:07GodEaterinteresting
14:58:13asnno wai-
14:58:21asnhttp://build.rockbox.org/dist/build-ipodvideo64mb/rockbox.zip
14:58:39GodEatercould you try using the first one then please ?
14:58:53asnbut isn't it correct?
14:59:42GodEateryes - but could you humour me and do it anyway
14:59:49asnYes I can.
15:00
15:00:03asnDo I have to totally uninstall my current rockbox installation and then redo it?
15:00:51GodEaterjust unzip that file onto your ipod
15:00:58asnalright.
15:00:59GodEaterit will overwrite the old one's content
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15:03:43asndone
15:04:07GodEaterthen try it out again and see
15:04:20GodEaterbrb
15:04:29asnwell, I'll just check it by running it casually. the freezes were random anyway
15:05:27asnWell it looks better
15:07:04asnby the way, what did I lose by downgrading to the 30GB video firmware?
15:07:21GodEater32MB of buffer memory
15:07:28GodEaterwhich it looks like you didn't have to use in the first place
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15:47:39LambdaCalculus37Morning, everyone!
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16:10:06markunLambdaCalculus37: morning!
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16:31:09Nico_Ppondlife: here?
16:31:19pondlifeKind of!
16:31:42Nico_Pjust wanted to see what you think of an idea for the buffering code
16:31:49pondlifeGo on..
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16:32:38Nico_Pin order to be able to share the buffer space between several users (e.g. playback and a plugin), I thought maybe storing a thread ID per handle could work
16:33:10Nico_Pand we roughly divide the total space by the number of threads that use it to allow each to have a part
16:33:27CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:33:27*petur feels Nico_P is slowly introducing dynamic memory allocation ;)
16:33:33pondlifeI don't like that idea
16:33:45pondlifeI think of buffering as being a layer above the file system
16:33:47Nico_Ppetur: it's similar but at a lower level of complexity
16:34:05pondlifeSo it shouldn't need to care so much about "users"
16:34:33Nico_Ppondlife: the problem is that currently ther's no way for a user to say it needs space immediately and get it
16:34:42Nico_Pit's hit or miss
16:34:56pondlifeGive an example of such a requirement, to help me understand
16:35:16pondlifeTo me, the user says "I want to read this file, please make it available"
16:35:34pondlifeAnd that's the extent of buffering, not full-on memory management
16:35:34Nico_Ppictureflow is one... it uses the buffering API to store the slides. If playback is active and the buffer is full, it won't be able to start
16:36:15Nico_Pit would be nice to allow the buffering code to remove a few audio handles to allow PF to get a bit of space
16:36:33linuxstbDoesn't this cause fragmentation in the buffer? Or can the buffering code deal with fragmentation?
16:37:07pondlifeNico_P: You're talking about memory management here, not buffering. Don't confuse the two or we'll end up with over-complex code again.
16:37:30Nico_Plinuxstb: it would remove the last handles in order, so no fragmentation. more generally, the only fragmentation you can get is by closing a handle that's not the first one... but holes are never filled
16:37:55Nico_Pwell they are, but only by moving other handles
16:38:06pondlifeIF we need memory management, it should be added as a separate module, and it could in turn ask buffering to free handles.
16:38:39pondlifeBut I would not call this a buffering function.
16:38:41Nico_Ppondlife: hmm I see what you mean
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16:39:36Nico_PI do have trouble seeing the limit but I guess you're right
16:39:45linuxstbNico_P: So what happens when pictureflow closes its handles? What happens to the holes it leaves? Or what happens if pictureflow and the playback code are buffering at the same time?
16:39:45pondlifeDoes pictureflow rely on the database?
16:39:56Nico_Ppondlife: yes
16:40:11pondlifeOK, so could the database help with slide management at all?
16:40:45Nico_Plinuxstb: the holes will be filled by moving the handles before or once the write position reaches them
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16:41:03Nico_Pif both are buffering at the same time, the handles will interleave
16:41:25pondlifeThose who value pictureflow above a large audio buffer could set a database config to allow it to allocate suitable chunks of memory, then reboot..?
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16:42:44pondlifeBear in mind, I know nothing about how pictureflow works, or what sort of memory requirement it has. Is it a chunk per album in the database?
16:43:12pondlifeOr just a static chunk so it can cache the last n covers?
16:43:33Nico_Pthe main buffer is used to cache the slide pics... all the rest is static
16:43:36pondlifeIf the latter, then another static allocation up-front would be best (a la system limits)
16:44:43linuxstbHow much of the main buffer will pictureflow use?
16:45:43Nico_Pnot a big portion... the total space used by my cache files is 3.3 MB
16:46:10Nico_Pand not all of them are in memory at the same time
16:46:24pondlifeAre they accessed via the buffering API as buffered files?
16:46:24linuxstbWhy 3.3MB? Is that a hard-coded limit in pictureflow?
16:46:54Nico_Plinuxstb: no, it's the disk space used by the cache files PF saves
16:47:13Nico_Pto avoid recalculating the shadow... these files are loaded and displayed
16:47:22Nico_Ppondlife: yes
16:48:04pondlifeSo.. doesn't a lot of this come out in the wash?
16:48:20Nico_Pwhat do you mean?
16:48:42pondlifei.e. picture flow tells buffering that it wants to access the cached data. buffering then loads that data.
16:48:52linuxstbNico_P: I still don't understand. All I'm asking is how much RAM pictureflow uses... What variables control this?
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16:49:43Nico_Plinuxstb: currently it uses the main buffer through the buffering API, so no fixed amount. but in my case it won't be more than 3 or 4 MB
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16:50:18linuxstbSo the answer is "as much as it can steal" ? e.g. if I had 2 million bitmaps, it would fill the audio buffer if it could?
16:50:25pondlifeSo does it need to allocate other memory, aside from the cached files?
16:50:53Nico_Plinuxstb: I think the number of handles has a hard limit, but that's basically the case, yes
16:51:15Nico_Ppondlife: from the main buffer, no. all the rest is statically alloctaed in the plugin buffer
16:51:36pondlifeOK, so why does the buffering API need to be changed?
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16:52:05pondlifeThe current setup should happily allow it to request that the cache data is made available
16:52:12Nico_Pbecause if the buffer is full, it would be nice to be able to make a bit of room in it. that's not possible currently.
16:52:58pondlifeBuffer is full meaning that there is no old audio data left
16:53:06pondlifei.e. all remaining audio data is now or future
16:53:07pondlife?
16:53:43Nico_Plet me check
16:54:33pondlifeSay you're at track 5 in a playlist, the track 1-4 data can be cleared, but 5 (and maybe 6) can't be cleared without an impact on playback, and 7-20 can't be cleared without fragmentation
16:54:51pondlife(something like that, I'm ill and somewhat delirious.)
16:55:06Nico_Phmm actually there's no checking to be done... the buffering code only cares about opened or closed
16:55:30Nico_Pit doesn't know where in the playlist the audio code is and can't work with that
16:55:58Nico_Pif the buffer is full, it stays full until the audio code closes some handles
16:55:58pondlifeYes, but does it get told by the playlist when a file is "old"?
16:56:17pondlifeAh, so the playback code closes a handle when a track has completed, right?
16:56:27pondlifeThus "freeing" that memory.
16:56:35Nico_Pyes
16:56:37pondlifeOK
16:57:29pondlifeSo the only other place you could obtain memory from would be from tracks later on in the playlist anyway, and you have no idea (from buffering) which those might be.
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16:59:16Nico_Pyes. but the buffering communicates with the users through callbacks, so it could ask a user to free up some space
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17:00
17:00:06Nico_Pat first I was thinking of closing handles and notifying their user, which is possible too, but it's not very nice
17:00:20pondlifeNope, best to keep the traffic all one way.
17:00:25pondlifei.e. user controls it.
17:00:30Nico_Pyeah I agree
17:00:53pondlifeSo, pictureflow can access it's cached files via the buffer anyway
17:01:03pondlifeIs it the other static data you need a home for?
17:02:41Nico_Pno. what I'd like to achieve is to guarantee that PF (or any other plugin) will be able to obtain some buffer space on startup.
17:02:55pondlifeBuffer space, but not for a file?
17:03:05Nico_Pfor a file
17:04:32peturI do hope that this lot is disabled when database is disabled
17:05:30Nico_PI don't think it would be DB-specific. but in the case of PF, nothing would happen if DB was disabled
17:06:06pondlifeOK, so(1) plugin asks buffering to open/read a file for it, but there's no free space. (2) buffering makes a callback to existing handles to ask if the space can be given back (3) playback, or whatever, replies to say "yes" or "no". (4) buffering looks to see how it can make unfragmented space available...
17:06:21*amiconn wonders why pictureflow should hamper playback if its running
17:06:35peturI mean, I do not want any available memory reduced just because PF exists
17:07:11pondlifeIn the case of playback, I'd expect it to allow tracks n+2 onwards to be unbuffered. This could allow buffering to extend the free area back in a straight ring.
17:07:22amiconnIt's just a plugin... it should either play nice and constrain itself to the plugin ram, or stop playback (which isn't really nice but some plugins need to do that anyway)
17:10:19Nico_Ppondlife: yeah I think you got it right
17:10:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:10:33Nico_Ppetur: that wouldn't affect normal operation at all
17:10:38pondlifeBut don't think about it as memory management.
17:10:52pondlifeThink about it as an improvement in the low-memory operation of the cache.
17:11:11pondlifeI'm not convinced it's needed though
17:11:43Nico_PI'm not sure either, I just wanted to toss the idea and see what the reactions were
17:12:32Nico_Pamiconn: I was thinking it could apply to the JPEG plugin too. it would allow taking just what's needed without having to stop playback
17:13:54pondlifeAny file i/o should be able to work that way through buffering.
17:14:27pondlifeAnd it would be nice to have a mechanism to request memory back if running out.
17:14:51Nico_PI'm not sure... it's kinda like with the FDs. If there are too much files open you can't open any more
17:14:53pondlifeI suppose the callback could just give the user a nudge, and the user could ignore it, or close the handle.
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17:16:20Nico_Pyeah that's what I was thinking
17:17:06pondlifeThere's still no guarantee of success, of course!
17:17:46pondlifeNico_P: BTW, do you know why the pictureflow track listing is upside down?
17:17:55pondlifei.e. first track at the bottom
17:18:18Nico_Pno, and from what I saw its worse because it's not consistently upside down
17:18:29Nico_PI need to look at how the DB sorts tracks
17:18:35pondlifeOK, so it's a bug
17:18:38pondlifeCool
17:18:53pondlifeAs long as it's not some kind of intentional Apple thing
17:19:31pondlifeTo be honest, I don't really use PF myself, it's not exactly the best way to browse.
17:19:33Nico_Phehe, no :)
17:19:53Nico_PI agree, I don't use it much myself.
17:20:11Nico_Pstill, it's a nice thing to have and it does have its public
17:20:15GodEaterwell given it's lack of ability to start playback, it's almost completely pointless
17:20:27linuxstb_almost_ ? ;)
17:20:31GodEaterapart from showing off Rockbox shinyness ;)
17:20:33pondlifeIndeed. That can't be hard to add, surely.
17:20:48pondlifeJust a playlist API thing, no?
17:21:02GodEaterpondlife: you think? I couldn't work out how to do it with rockbox's current feature set.
17:21:16pondlifeOr more likely a database API to select and play a query
17:21:16Nico_Pyeah I need to look into that too... damn, so many things to do and so little time :)
17:21:21GodEaterthe plugin needs to exit to free up the main buffer
17:21:37GodEaterbut somehow pass an instruction to somewhere to start playback when it's dead
17:21:43GodEaterat least that's how I assume it has to work
17:22:05pondlifeCan't it close handles to free the buffer, then call a database query and play API?
17:22:07Nico_PGodEater: it doesn't use all of the main buffer, so I think it would be ok on that part
17:22:20Nico_Pand what pondlife said is correct :)
17:22:24GodEaterah ok
17:22:47linuxstbBTW, how does it work now? Does it iterate through albums in the database, showing the applicable bitmap, or does it iterate through bitmaps?
17:22:51GodEaterI made the assumption that since it grabbed the audio buffer that it was then unavailable for playback
17:23:09GodEaterlinuxstb: the former I think
17:23:18GodEaterthat's how it appears to me anyway
17:23:25pondlifeI'm just wondering about an API that throws some kind of tagnavi-compatible string into the database code and tells it to play it...
17:24:12pondlifeMaybe such a thing exists internally - need Slasheri or another database search guru...
17:24:47pondlifee.g. so the database browser can remember it's last position
17:25:14Nico_Plinuxstb: it iterates through albums, showing the bitmaps that go with them
17:25:52Nico_Pactually with one of the tracks, I think the first it gets
17:27:38linuxstbDoes the database code still add individual filenames to .playlist_control, rather than storing the command (query) ?
17:27:46Nico_PI think s
17:27:49Nico_Pso*
17:28:14pondlifeThat's ok. The playlist can be modified on the fly anyway
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17:28:36pondlifeThe database only gets to determine a set to add.
17:28:59pondlifeBut it should be capable of doing just that for pictureflow.
17:29:43linuxstbpondlife: What's OK?
17:29:47pondlifeNico_P: I also suggest you read http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WhyNoMalloc again ;)
17:30:03pondlifeIt's ok that the database adds individual filenames.
17:30:33Nico_Ppondlife: hehe :)
17:30:41Nico_PI agree MoB is close to the limit
17:30:57*GodEater thinks it should be renamed to CoB
17:31:05pondlifeBear in mind that the buffer is an Audio Buffer
17:31:08pondlifeC?
17:31:14GodEater"Crap on Buffer"
17:31:15GodEater:)
17:31:21pondlifeThe M in MoB stands for Malloc ;)
17:31:25GodEaterhahahaha
17:31:30linuxstbpondlife: The file browser doesn't do that, and IIUC, that's why it takes so long to create long playlists with the database (e.g. an All Tracks playlist for shuffling).
17:31:32Nico_P:D
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17:32:20pondlifelinuxstb: That is a pain. But I can't think of a better way involving queries.
17:32:48pondlifee.g. database adds an "All tracks" entry. But then user wants to delete a particular track...
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17:33:13linuxstbIsn't that just the same as file-browser based playlist manipulation?
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17:33:36pondlifeYes, but it relies on the playlist consisting of filenames.
17:33:42pondlifeOr perhaps I misunderstood you?
17:34:43linuxstbIIUC, if you insert a directory into the playlist from the file browser, Rockbox will only store one line in .playlist_control - "insert directory X".
17:35:21pondlifeOK, say the user then wants to remove one file from that subset?
17:35:30pondlifeWhat ends up in playlist_control then?
17:35:52pondlifei.e directory X, but not track 3
17:37:53linuxstbP:2:/dirname:
17:37:53linuxstbD:9
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17:38:28linuxstb^ I played a file to insert a whole directory into the playlist, then removed one track (#9 I assume...)
17:39:20pondlifeWould that just pass the burden onto other code, e.g. the playlist viewer?
17:39:46linuxstbI've no idea how playlists work internally, but I can't see why the database should be different to the file browser.
17:40:04pondlifeI've no idea, either :)
17:40:19linuxstbi.e. a database query returns a list of files (same as a directory listing).
17:40:44pondlifeWhat's stored in .playlist_control? It it not just a list of filenames?
17:40:56linuxstbThose two lines I pasted was my .playlist_control file...
17:41:03*pondlife needs to check before attempting to converse further :/
17:41:14GodEaterlinuxstb: but how would that work with those nasty databases on an iTunes populated ipod ?
17:41:21GodEaterwhere the files *aren't* all in the same directory
17:42:03GodEaterthis is, I assume, why the database does what it does - since it can't be certain all the files for a playlist are in a given directory
17:42:12linuxstbThe directory is irrelevant.
17:42:40Nico_Pthe playlist control file would have to store the exact db query... I guess it would take quite some hacking in the playlist code
17:42:44GodEaterah I see
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17:48:40DomonokyBagder: ping..
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17:57:26conandoGodEater: regarding picture flow.. i tried that too but didn't find any suitable function/api for scheduling a song after plugin exit.. and i'm too much of a rockbox beginner currently to add something like that :-(
17:57:29amiconnpondlife: Doing playlist management this way turned out both *way* faster and more memory efficient than a trivial file list
17:57:50conandowould be quite cool if PF finally could start a song and thus have a _real_ use :)
17:58:48pondlifeWell that's the two most important factors satisfied
17:59:35pondlifeNow we need a unified interface for database and filesystem (on both the populating and enquiring ends), right?
18:00
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18:11:33asnNTP and rockbox? It's not implemented, right?
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18:17:16JdGordonNTP doent work too well without a netwrok connection... so no
18:20:15asnJdGordon: Well, I was thinking of synching everytime you connect your device with USB. It would get the time from your PC (Which should be using NTP).
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19:05:10JETC-Geh...compiling over and over again is a pain with a slow p00ter :3
19:10:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:10:26scorche|wthen do it with a fast one :)
19:11:01linuxstbOr get things right the first time... ;)
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19:13:36JETC-Lol...I wish but a patch keeps breaking a build and I need to know which one ;d
19:13:42TheDarkOneare there any reasons why all propery encoded flac files will not play gapless on an ipod 4th gen
19:14:09JETC-lack of buffer?
19:14:12JETC-:3
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19:14:57TheDarkOnewell it's supposed to play gapless, yet for everything i try to play, there is a 0.5-1.5 second gap between trakcs
19:14:59TheDarkOnetracks*
19:17:31linuxstbI have no trouble with gapless on my ipod Photo (which is almost identical to the 4th gen).
19:17:40linuxstb^gapless FLAC
19:17:56linuxstbI assume you're running the very latest Rockbox build ?
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19:19:10GodEater_linuxstb: have you had any of the buffering issues that I'm getting on the G5.5 ?
19:19:10TheDarkOneit used to play gapless, sometimes, sometimes it didn't seem to buffer properly
19:19:10TheDarkOneand i'm trying to understand what i can do to fix the gapless playback, because alot of the music i listen to is supposed to be gapless and the songs mesh together, so a gap is truely annoying
19:19:10 Quit Axio_ ()
19:19:18TheDarkOneyep
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19:19:25TheDarkOnei tried the latest, and even tried yesterday's daily build
19:19:29TheDarkOneboth had the same problem
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19:20:07linuxstbGodEater_: No, but to be fair I don't use my ipods that often, so I guess it's possible I've not noticed any recently introduced issues...
19:20:10jac0b-workdoes anyone have a dump of a viewport I can see
19:21:15GodEater_jac0b-work: what are you expecting to see ?
19:21:20TheDarkOneso there is no reason i can find why it shouldn't be gapless
19:21:29jac0b-worklike a wps or menu
19:21:53GodEater_jac0b-work: yes, but I'm wondering how you'll know from looking at the picture whether it uses Viewports or not
19:22:11jac0b-workthats what I want to know
19:22:19jac0b-workdoes it change anything
19:22:24GodEater_jac0b-work: the point I'm making is that you won't know
19:22:39jac0b-workoh so it looks the same
19:23:06GodEater_jac0b-work: what are you expecting to change ?
19:24:29TheDarkOneyeah, it's simply not buffering the next song before song change, or atleast that's what it seems like
19:24:38TheDarkOnethe time stops 3 seconds before the track ends
19:24:42TheDarkOnestalls for a second
19:24:47TheDarkOnethen to 0:00 for the next track
19:25:06*GodEater_ wonders if linuxstb could be tempted to test and see if it happens to him too...
19:26:25JETC-Hrmm..the bmpresize patch seems to be compiling just fine O_o
19:26:30JETC-I thought that was the problem
19:26:31JETC-Guess not
19:26:42*JETC- waits for the build to finish anyway
19:27:32TheDarkOneso any ideas on what i can do to fix gapless playback on my ipod?
19:27:48TheDarkOneany settings that can possibly effect it?
19:28:02JETC-Bah
19:28:25GodEater_TheDarkOne: you should have inferred from my comments above that you may be experiencing a bug in rockbox
19:28:50GodEater_TheDarkOne: in which case, there is nothing you can do unless you're a handy C coder, and familiar with Rockbox threading :)
19:29:03TheDarkOnewtf
19:29:10GodEater_(disclaimer) assuming that threading is still the problem
19:29:10TheDarkOnei just reset the settings
19:29:14TheDarkOneand it's working fine
19:29:18TheDarkOnei think
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19:29:36JETC-It did break lol
19:29:39TheDarkOnelet me check again
19:29:58TheDarkOnenope
19:29:59TheDarkOnedidn't fix it
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19:31:20jac0b-workjetc: is the bmpresize fixed now
19:31:26JETC-Newp
19:31:36JETC-It breaks on the pictureflow
19:31:39JETC-pictureflow.c: In function `create_albumart_cache':
19:31:40JETC-pictureflow.c:609: error: too few arguments to function
19:31:46jac0b-workyeah
19:31:55GodEater_JETC-: please use a pastebin
19:31:57TheDarkOneGodEater_: if this is a bug, why does noone else seem to be experiencing it?
19:32:12GodEater_TheDarkOne: I just told you I was, and others have reported it in the forums
19:32:18GodEater_there is also an FS entry
19:32:23TheDarkOnerecently?
19:32:26GodEater_yes
19:32:30TheDarkOneok
19:32:33JETC-Sorry
19:32:48GodEater_although I don't use FLAC - so I can't swear it's exactly the same thing
19:33:09GodEater_although it seems likely since a typical FLAC is so large there are very few of them on buffer
19:33:22JETC-Anyway, I did read in flyspray that the read_bmp_file function also had that problem so kugel suggested to add 3 more parameters
19:33:30jac0b-workI don't use bmpresize anymore I use the orther resize patch
19:33:31JETC-But it seems I'm getting an error for a different function
19:33:38JETC-Really?
19:33:40JETC-Which one?
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19:34:04jac0b-workhttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8308
19:34:12kugelJdGordon|w: around?
19:34:21jac0b-workbut it won't resize the pic but it will dispaly it
19:34:28jac0b-workdisplay*
19:34:42jac0b-workwell it does resize
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19:35:01kugelthis patch doesnn't implement resizing for wps usage jac0b-work
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19:35:30jac0b-workoh then that might be why
19:35:52jac0b-workis there a way to set the output size of the image
19:36:30JETC-Anyway, I'll see what I can do to pictureflow.c so it can at least compile even if it won't work for that plugin
19:37:34kugelJETC-: would be nice if you play around with the last parameter to add. I'm still thinking the 0 is preventing resizing from getting doen
19:38:38JETC-Well, I'm getting a different function error other than the read_bmp_file
19:38:41jac0b-workcan you set the image size with this http://pastebin.ca/854981
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19:41:42TheDarkOnedo you have to create playlists to get gapless playback? or should just loading an album from the database achieve it as well
19:42:03Horschthi there
19:42:05kugeljac0b-work: if you get it to work with wps let me know
19:42:23kugelTheDarkOne: playlist are allways created
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19:42:55jac0b-workkugel: I am going to try it when I get home
19:43:12kugelTheDarkOne: when selecting a music file in databse/file browser to playback, all the items in that folder are inserted in a dynamic playlist
19:44:22JdGordon|wkugel: hi
19:44:47TheDarkOnei don't suppose that having only 100MB left on the ipod would effect gapless playback, would it?
19:44:50kugelJdGordon|w: Have you had a look at the recent progress in FS #6800 ?
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19:45:08kugel(lcd fade for e200)
19:45:40JdGordon|wI just saw the new comments, but cant look at the patch untill i get home tonight
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19:47:13kugelhe basically took your attempt to make use of the backlight thread and got it to work
19:49:02JdGordon|walthough not perfectly by the sounds pf it?
19:49:51kugelyea
19:50:41JdGordon|wok, ill try to remember to have a look at it this arvo
19:51:04kugelcool
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19:54:57HorschtI know I can boot to the default ipod FW by turning the hold switch into the on position on boot. How long will it stay in that mode? After the Ipod went into sleep mode?
19:55:48Horschtappart from me forcing a reboot that is
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19:57:16LambdaCalculus37Horscht: The Apple firmware will remain on until you decide to reset your iPod again with MENU+SELECT.
19:57:55Horschtok, so it will not reboot into rockbox at any time? That's great.
19:58:23pixelmaI thought it will turn off completely after a day or two from its "sleep"? But I don't have an Ipod...
19:58:41HorschtBattery Life will not be any different when using rockbox loader and Ipod firmware as oposed to only using Ipod loader/firmware?
19:58:47LambdaCalculus37pixelma: My iPod color never did, nor did my video.
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19:59:31LambdaCalculus37Horscht: The Apple firmware still works exactly as it says it will.
20:00
20:00:19Horschtok, cause battery life was so far what was keeping me from using rockbox as default player
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20:05:53GodEater_pixelma: in theory this is true, but you have to leave your ipod alone for a LONG time for it to properly shutdown. I think two days isn't enough - I'm pretty sure I'd managed to leave me for a week or so before it did it to me.
20:05:59scorche|woh!...btw, a few people from SCaLE (southern california linux expo...i hadnt heard of it before either) seem to want me to come and represent OLPC...so i will probably be making it a dual OLPC/rockbox booth :)
20:09:32 Nick Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (n=daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se)
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20:10:01GodEater_scorche|w: hence the signage...
20:11:11BagderDomonoky: I'm here now
20:11:15 Quit pondlife ("Leaving.")
20:11:18JETC-Hrmm....what's the command again to revert 1 specific patch?
20:11:40Bagderjepler: patch -R ?
20:11:45BagderJETC-: even
20:11:51JETC-Huh?
20:11:53DomonokyBagder: nice.. genlang.cgi has a bug.. it doesnt correctly use the features...
20:11:59*Bagder curses his nick completion inability
20:12:04JETC-Lol
20:12:29DomonokyBagder: ie try with "spdif_power" as feature, and the relevant strings are missing in the output...
20:12:41Bagderaha, underscore!
20:12:59BagderDomonoky: I clean the input argument and only accept certain letters, and I missed underscore...
20:12:59scorche|wGodEater_: yes...hence the signage :)
20:13:23GodEater_did you maul your plotter yet ?
20:13:31Bagder$features =~ s/[^a-z0-9:_]//g;
20:13:36DomonokyBagder: thats why onle some features dont work :-)
20:14:01BagderI added the underscore just now
20:14:26Domonokygood, i will generate a new lang and see if more strings are missing :-)
20:14:32Bagdergreat
20:14:38Domonokys/lang/voice
20:15:27BagderI'll also introduce some caching server-side wise in my script, since currently it does 'svn cat' twice for every invoke
20:16:08Domonokyjeah some cache would be good.. :-)
20:16:20scorche|wGodEater_: i am waiting till everyone leaves so no one is here to wonder why i am using the plotters and consuming large amounts of paper and ink for something that isnt a plan for a petrol refinery :)
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20:42:00FebsBuschel_: I saw your question on the forum. I can compile my own build.
20:42:23Buschel_Febs: great, than we should be able to track it down.
20:42:32FebsWould you like me to work from v08 again, or start with v10?
20:42:45Buschel_simply use v10 as base
20:43:20FebsOK. Let me apply the patch and then I'll check back to ensure I am changing what you need me to change.
20:48:36 Quit Jon-Kha (Remote closed the connection)
20:49:05Buschel_btw, I wrote nonsense it the forum :/ you not need to re-enable them in system-pp502x.c, you'll need to not disable them in usb-fw-pp502x.c at the very bottom
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20:50:45DomonokyBagder: please also include the "-" into the filterlist of genlang.cgi
20:51:25Bagderfor what?
20:51:32Domonokyfeature: lcd_non-mono
20:51:41Bagderoh
20:51:44Buschel_febs: just corrected the forum entry
20:52:22BagderDomonoky: done
20:52:36Domonokythx.. next test :-9
20:52:50FebsBuschel_: could you tell me exactly what line needs to be changed and what I should change it to?
20:53:08BagderDomonoky: I also noticed that languages use - too
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20:54:13DomonokyBagder: at least for the h120 the output is now the same as the output of the build system.. so bug fixed.. :-)
20:54:27Bagdernice
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20:55:24Buschel_febs: first comment line #51 (-> //DEV_EN &= ~DEV_USB0;)
20:55:56Buschel_febs: then re-build and check
20:56:01FebsGot it.
20:56:25Buschel_febs: then re-enable this line and comment the next line (-> //DEV_EN &= ~DEV_USB1;)
20:57:17amiconnlinuxstb: Is there any way to distinguish an ipod color with type 0 lcd from one with type 1 lcd, without installing rockbox or ipl?
20:57:27amiconnSomething in diag mode, perhaps?
20:58:03FebsBuschel_: Compiling now. I'll get back to you in about 14 hours. :)
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21:00
21:00:08Buschel_febs: ooops, just my major failure! i should have asked blueskip, not you... i was wondering, if the charging while playback was not working anymore.
21:00:27Buschel_febs: just wondered why you told me to wait for 14hours...
21:00:29asnThe apps/plugins/clock.c is the one appearing on the WPS screen etc.?
21:01:04Buschel_febs: i really should take some off-time :/
21:01:15FebsBuschel_: :) No problem.
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21:01:28Domonokyasn: no thats a plugin, wps is seperate..
21:01:38Buschel_febs: can you maybe test this, too?
21:02:16FebsSure, let me see if I can replicate his problem.
21:02:21asnI thought about that too. What's the one appearing in WPS and in the top-right corner of the screen when in browsing ode?
21:04:42FebsBuschel_: I confirm that I can duplicate his problem with an unmodified v10 patch. I'll try your changes now.
21:06:08GodEater_asn: that clock is part of the statusbar
21:07:07Buschel_febs: good news :)
21:07:19asnI see GodEater_
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21:10:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:12:15FebsBuschel_: Commenting out line 51 does not fix the issues.
21:12:46stripwaxperhaps the USB0/USB1 devices can be cycled on/off periodically (switched off most of the time, but enabled/disabled again on a timer)
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21:17:39FebsBuschel_: My turn for a brain malfunction. I was looking at the other problems blueskip reported, not the charging issue.
21:17:59Buschel_febs/stripwax: i assume of the DEV_EN-bits has to switched on again for charging (charger insertion should be recognized)
21:18:11stripwaxI guess
21:19:00FebsWith line 51 commented out, debug−−>battery shows USB pwr as present.
21:19:16Buschel_febs: ok, that was _your_ "malfunction" −− i already mine before ;o)
21:19:20Buschel_*had
21:20:28Buschel_febs: the other things blueskip is mentioning -> is he talking about seeking within a track?
21:21:36Buschel_febs: hmm, does it really charge?
21:21:43FebsNo, there is a lag in UI. As you scroll, the cursor will stay on 1 entry and then jump forward.
21:22:07Buschel_febs: ah, ok
21:22:08FebsBuschel_: my battery is fully charged, so I'm not sure.
21:22:36Buschel_febs: with line 51 still active it does not show USB pwr as present?
21:23:00FebsI'm reinstalling that build. I'll let you know in a moment.
21:24:09Buschel_hmm, the debug shows GPIO input values. shouldn't be connected to DEV_EN
21:24:12stripwaxHas anyone reported any flac decoding issues? I've got one flac track that just gets stuck about 1 second in, audio then loops indefinitely
21:24:43stripwaxbuschel - could the dev_en disable the device that feeds the gpio perhaps?
21:24:55 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
21:25:09Buschel_then it would not detect the USB-insertion
21:25:17FebsWith line 51 still active, USB power is accurately reported as present or absent.
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21:26:50Buschel_hmm, blueskip reports missing charging when putting the ipod into his cradle.
21:27:14stripwaxwouldn't that be 12v power rather than usb power?
21:27:30Buschel_that's another GPIO-bit for the detection.
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21:28:35Buschel_anyone here with a cradle for an ipod 5G to check whether charging works with my patch?
21:29:21stripwaxBuschel_ - I have a mains charger (although not with me right now, so earliest I could test is tomorrow evening)
21:29:32stripwaxnot a cradle but supplies the 12v pin
21:30:43FebsI have to step out for a few minutes but if there's anything else I can do, let me know.
21:31:48 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
21:32:21 Nick qwedsa_ is now known as qwedsa (n=superman@ip51ccca31.speed.planet.nl)
21:33:07Buschel_febs: thanks for your help
21:33:14*Buschel_ cannot find his wall charger :/
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21:40:13soapBuschel_, haven't read the logs - just got home - I too am having horrible UI lag when in the file browser, not so much in the menus.
21:41:09Bagderhttp://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2008/01/14/what-can-i-do-for-rockbox-when-not-programming/
21:44:33soapto the point of non-responsiveness. This is all on my 5th generation iPod (Video), with a rather large font.
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21:46:02qwedsa:X
21:46:45Buschel_soap: hmm, was it the same with v08?
21:47:00soapI'll be honest, I only did battery-benches with the older versions.
21:47:06Buschel_:o)
21:47:15soapgive me an hour (I have chores) and I'll test.
21:47:31soapthat smiley confuses me.
21:48:14Buschel_soap: the smiley sais -> to be honest, i also mostly did runtime tests and scrolling in menus −− not the filebrowser
21:50:27GodEater_Bagder: This sentence : "As blunt as it sounds, we need money at time." makes no sense.
21:50:33GodEater_"at times" perhaps ?
21:50:52asnWhat is CONFIG_RTC, gentlemen?
21:51:07GodEater_it implies the target has a Real Time Clock
21:51:18Bagderoh, me fix
21:55:22asnI was checking statusbar.c, and it only has #if CONFIG_RTC. What if he doesn't have Real Time Clock?
21:56:47GodEater_then you don't get a clock in the status bar
21:57:13Bagderwithout RTC, clocks aren't as fun...
21:57:39asnhehe
21:58:47asnThere are devices that support rockbox and have no RTC?
21:58:56GodEater_quite a few yes
21:59:04Bagderobviously
21:59:17asnEverything is clear now
21:59:17GodEater_Bagder: surely we coded that for the hell of it ;)
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21:59:31asn<:
21:59:37Bagderyeah, that's rockbox style...
21:59:50GodEater_so now the simcity code is gpl'd - when do we expect RockSim do you think? ;)
21:59:59Bagdersimbox!
22:00
22:00:16Bagderon the archos player!
22:00:40amiconnAt least 6 rockbox targets have no rtc
22:01:22JdGordon|wI was gonna suggest rockcity.. but simbox is just as good :p
22:01:36JdGordon|wand either way.. /me wants :)
22:01:49GodEater_I've got a nagging feeling it's C++ - so some serious porting is required...
22:06:21GodEater_http://www.donhopkins.com/home/micropolis/
22:06:22 Quit Fraser (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:06:33 Join Fraser [0] (n=Fraser@thelawsons.plus.com)
22:07:25Nico_Pit was adapted from C to C++ so it's probably quite ok
22:07:56 Quit Fraser (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:08:12 Join Fraser [0] (n=Fraser@thelawsons.plus.com)
22:08:15soapman, simcity is hard on a palm pilot with a 320x320 screen and full colour and a touchscreen. I can't imagine it on a smaller screen w/o a mouse / touchscreen
22:09:28GodEater_soap: I was kind of joking...
22:09:35 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
22:11:38*JdGordon|w dreams of simcity on the mr500
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22:14:50shotofaddssoap: simcity was playable with just a keyboard or joystick on the zx spectrum back in the early 90's (256x192 screen). Would make an excellent rockbox game imho
22:15:45shotofadds..not that i'm volunteering - i have other stuff on my mind right now :)
22:15:54Bagderoops, we have almost 15000 users in the forums now
22:16:09asnWhich source file is responsible for the Set Time/Date configuration?
22:16:37soapshotofadds, keyboard = 10->15x as many input options as a DAP.
22:17:41 Quit Frazz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:17:54shotofaddssoap, seriously it was almost entirely driven by cursor keys
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22:22:26asnLet me tell you a scenario and answer me if it's science fiction or not. I want my iPod everytime I plug it in (to charge it or anything) to check my PC's time (which is NTP-synched) and put it as it's time. Can it be dooone?
22:22:43Bagderasn: yes it can
22:22:56Bagderalthough you need quite a bit of science to get it working
22:23:26Bagderit should keep you busy for a while I'm sure
22:23:59asnJudging by my programming experience/skills, even a simple hello world would keep me busy for a while.
22:24:14asnBagder: I see, tho.
22:24:58pixelmashotofadds: there is zxbox a spectrum emulator in Rockbox... ;)
22:25:15asnBagder: let me bother you for a bit more. What's the hard part of it?
22:25:19bertrikmaybe it can be done by emulating a network interface over USB and capturing NTP broadcast packets
22:25:24soapBuschel_, I made a series of iPod video builds from V05 -> v10. What other things need tested?
22:25:44Bagderasn: you need to communicate/sync with the ipod over usb somehow
22:27:36asnBagder: I was thinking of making a text file inside .rockbox with the output of "date" , and then using the functions that the "Set Time/Date" thingie in the Configuration panel of rockbox is using, to set it as the time.
22:27:50GodEater_iiuc, apple already do this with their own firmware when it's plugged in over usb
22:28:10Bagderasn: sure that could work, but it would make the time far from accurate
22:28:22GodEater_I think I even remember Zagor (or possibly linuxstb) commenting on how it was done
22:28:32Buschel_soap: can you reproduce the "charging not visible" which blueskip describes in the forums?
22:29:24soapI'll try - I honestly can't say if it is normally visible and I don't charge during use normally. ;)
22:29:25 Quit webguest59 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:29:49Buschel_soap: just found my wall charger, but my battery is full...
22:30:18asnBagder: Yes I know that the time won't be 100% synced, but well, I guess that syncing it once in every ipod-mount is enough for my needs.
22:30:40GodEater_asn: does the clock on your ipod drift that much then ?
22:30:59*GodEater_ finds his ipod's time keeping is pretty good, and had only ever set it once
22:31:02Buschel_soap: he also described choppy audio when text scrolls (e.g. file selection in file browser). do you see the same?
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22:33:44soapI misread what he meant, then. I thought he meant choppy audio when scrolling the file list. Which is common with the iPod Video.
22:33:57soapBut, no, I suffered no choppy audio due to text scrolling on the WPS.
22:34:03asnGodEater_: absolutely not. my ipod's time is 2minutes off right now because I configured it from my old analog wall-clock, but well NTP-synced time is an extra luxury I've been enjoying on my desktop lately and I would like to do that in my rockbox too. I'm not crazy with time or anything, I just do it for the "heck" of it, and just to train my non-existent C skills. I would do it if it was 150-lines of code but no I would not like to start a project that needs "
22:35:20GodEater_asn: but unless your ipod usb connection is over in less than a few seconds, then whatever time you dump in your text file will end up skewing the clock more than it is already...
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22:37:13soapBuschel_, I have a charging indicator when docking my 5th gen on v10 of your patch.
22:37:34asnI see where you are going this, but I don't understand what the "ending" of the connection has to do with it. ( is over in less than a few seconds )
22:37:56Buschel_soap: ok, then everything seem to work fine.
22:37:58BagderGodEater: unless it repeatedly stores the current time and on the following reboots it sets it, then it will be within a few seconds
22:38:17GodEater_Bagder: ah ok yes
22:38:42Bagderand since it knows roughly how long a reboot takes, it only depends on the frequency it writes to the storage place
22:38:58Bagder(assuming that is how it works)
22:39:25*GodEater_ still thinks a more elegant solution is to do it over the usb connection (once our usb is fully functional)
22:40:40asnAw I understand the problem!
22:40:55asnThe changes are going to be written after Rockbox's reboot.
22:41:27Bagderasn: yes, rockbox would have to read and set the time first thing at boot
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22:51:21webguest45hi is there a way to install rockbox on any of the sandisk mp3 players?
22:51:29 Quit Fraser (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:52:07advcomp2019webguest45, no
22:52:17JdGordon|wall the older c200 and e200 series
22:52:20Horschtsansa are sandisk, no?
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22:52:32BagderHorscht: yes
22:52:48advcomp2019webguest45, you need to port it to the player first
22:52:53Horschtso, rockbox supports a few models
22:53:03webguest45how can i do that?
22:53:03Bagderwebguest45: what sandisk player?
22:53:18JdGordon|wadvcomp2019: wtf? shoosh
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22:53:42Horschtwebguest45, SanDisk: Sansa c200, e200 and e200R series (not the v2 models) are supported
22:54:00webguest45oh sorry i ment insignia.
22:54:17JdGordon|wminor typo.. happens all the time
22:54:40Horschtyeah, does rockbox run on my Ferarri?
22:54:58JdGordon|wonly the f40
22:55:09scorche|wif you get me one, i can port it
22:55:23Horschtsorry, I meant Thompson
22:55:32Horscht;)
22:55:48webguest45can it run on any of the insignia players?
22:55:53Horschtoh, well. to answer your question, webguest45: no
22:56:12Horschthttp://www.rockbox.org/ <- on the top there, you can see the supported players
22:56:54advcomp2019webguest45, you could port rockbox to it if you know how to
22:57:29Horschtif you have to ask what porting is, or how to do it, it's probably beyond your capabilities. Porting/coding is not trivial
22:57:33webguest45is there a page that can tell me how to port? what does port mean?
22:57:58webguest45too late to ask...
22:58:27Bagderhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort
22:58:42Bagdera simple step-by-step ;-O
22:59:32 Quit JETC- (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:00
23:00:01webguest45Thank You! I'll check it out right now! :)
23:01:21Horschthave fun
23:02:01 Quit GodEater_ ("Leaving")
23:02:12Horschtnn
23:03:06*shotofadds is about to commit his D2 work, crosses fingers...
23:03:31 Quit jcollie ("Ex-Chat")
23:03:31*ender` yawns
23:03:49Bagderthe first commit from a new committer is always special...
23:04:00webguest45Whoa...just by reading the first sentence i got confused. i thought it was going to be easy or something. Anyway thanks for the help! :)
23:04:06Bagdermany breakage points have shown up that way ;-)
23:04:30shotofaddsi'm not sure 'special' is a good thing ;)
23:04:39Bagderhehe
23:04:54shotofadds..and off it goes
23:05:50webguest45i have know idea how you guys are able to do this stuff it must have taken alot of time. A LOT OF TIME.
23:06:08Bagderwebguest45: yessir, you're right
23:06:20shotofaddsBagder: you might want to fix my name in the 'who' column on the front page
23:06:26Bagderah yes
23:06:35webguest45how long did it take you.
23:06:54Bagderwebguest45: we started coding early 2002
23:07:36Bagderand we've grown all the time since then
23:07:57webguest45i don't get it you guys work your fucking ass off (excuse my language) creating rockbox and then you posrt it up on the internet for people to download for free? Why?
23:08:28Bagderwebguest45: rockbox wouldn't be possible any other way
23:08:39Bagderhow do you think most of us get involved in the first place?
23:08:50 Join uwe__ [0] (n=uwe@dslb-084-056-055-240.pools.arcor-ip.net)
23:09:16Horschtthat's the spirit of open source, webguest45
23:09:48 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:09:52Horschtsome people like to contribute to something bigger, others do it for the fame, the booze and the sex
23:10:08scorche|wwebguest45: have a look at this paper: http://www.google.com/search?q=cathedral+and+the+bazaar
23:10:16asnI loved his question, actually :)
23:10:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:11:24shotofaddsBagder: some interesting stats at the bottom of http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi "67 builds in 479 seconds (7mins 59secs) makes 7.1 seconds/build (the most recent build took 7mins 52secs)"
23:11:30linuxstbamiconn: Re: your ipod color type0/1 LCD question, I think the only thing you can check is the HW revision - this is stored in the SysInfo text file somewhere inside iPod_Control (and probably diagmode, I could check if you wanted). 0x60000 is the "iPod Photo" and is definitely type 0 (see the check in lcd-color_nano.c), and 0x60004 is the "iPod Color", and can be either.
23:11:57linuxstbamiconn: I've just checked, and it's "iPod_Control/Device/Sysinfo" and my ipod has the line "boardHwSwInterfaceRev: 0x00060004"
23:12:53Bagderyeah, we're down on 11 servers most of the time so the build time is now usually around 7-8 minutes "per round"
23:13:18shotofaddsit says 7.1 _seconds_ per build
23:13:34Bagderyes, 67 builds in 479 seconds
23:13:35linuxstbamiconn: In the Diagmode, there is a "SysCfg" option, and it's showing "HwVr: 393220" - 0x60004.
23:13:44Bagdershotofadds: 479 / 67
23:14:02amiconnlinuxstb: Thanks. Do you know about any dev with a type0 ipod color?
23:14:07Bagderit's a slightly confusing use of words I guess
23:14:12shotofaddsah..clearly I confused "build" with "round"
23:14:38Bagderwell, I'm clearly blind for those mistakes anyway ;-)
23:15:03linuxstbamiconn: I think hcs has an ipod color, but I don't know which type. He's the only other person with the ipod color afaik.
23:15:06JdGordon|wdoes the d2 have any real buttons? or just the touchscreen?
23:15:07shotofaddsit certainly beats my VMware image anyway :-)
23:15:25amiconnlinuxstb: hmm :/
23:15:38shotofaddsJdGordon|w: it has 3 physical buttons (- / M / +) plus power/hold
23:15:52JdGordon|wdoes it have a remote?
23:16:08shotofaddsnope, there's no remote
23:16:10Bagdershotofadds: congrats, as green as before!
23:16:23shotofaddsmeh, only 28 points ;-)
23:16:27webguest45well i don't know you guys are the one who made rockbox its up to you guys. :)
23:16:29amiconnlinuxstb: Not sure how to push the lcd bridge 2 any further without knowing the limits of the type0 lcd
23:16:49amiconnUnfortunately I have no idea what controller that is - I already googled a lot in the past
23:17:57shotofaddsI guess I should make a CowonD2Port page to keep track of progress... the current page is quite bogged down with hardware info
23:18:00Bagdershotofadds: let me know when you think the bootloader/main/sim are fit to get added to the build table. We try to add them to the table early to help us not break them by changes done elsewhere
23:18:16JdGordon|wshotofadds: you've got quite a way before you need to worry about running the main rockbox bin right?
23:18:34shotofaddsBagder: will do .. but I don't think it'll be for some time yet
23:18:53Bagdershotofadds: no, I just wanted you to know
23:18:53shotofaddsJdGordon: yep, I'm concentrating on reading the flash next
23:19:02Nico_PI guess it's time to move the D2 from OtherTargets to TargetStatus :)
23:19:15JdGordon|wgreat, then I can still be slack with fixing the touchscreen code in apps/ :)
23:20:54Nico_Pshouldn't the iriver iFP790 port be moved to the "inactive" section?
23:21:07 Quit uwe_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:21:32hcsamiconn: how could I tell what lcd type I have (I have a 60gb ipod color, as was noted)
23:21:33BagderNico_P: I think yes on both questions
23:21:49Bagderoh the first wasn't a question... :-)
23:22:11 Join shotofadds_ [0] (n=5101670b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-426ee97e75059a3b)
23:22:43amiconnhcs: Either check /iPod_Control/Device/Sysinfo (it's a text file) for the hw revision number, or Debug->View HW Info in rockbox
23:22:46 Quit petur ("gonne")
23:22:46shotofadds_stupid router, it boots me off every night at this time
23:23:27 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
23:23:28Nico_PBagder: also, maybe the ZVM should be moved to pre-dev. It doesn't even run code yet
23:23:55Bagderyes, that's not truly a port yet by my definition
23:23:57amiconnhcs: The latter should directly list the lcd type as well
23:24:01 Quit shotofadds ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
23:24:29shotofadds_JdGordon: yep, I figured that by the time I've got a working Main build the MRobe build will be complete :-)
23:24:47 Join ol_schoola [0] (n=meatwad@c-67-167-20-91.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
23:26:20asnI'm probably not gonna touch the 60% of the pre-installed Plugins that came with rockbox. If I remove them, will I get a performance ~boost~, or should I let them there, just in case (I have lots of room).
23:26:35shotofadds_Bagder: what did you and scorche mean by a 'developer cloak' the other day? i'm intrigued..
23:26:46amiconnlinuxstb: That check in lcd-color_nano.c is strange... effectively it just checks whether gpio A$ is zero
23:26:52amiconn*gpio A4
23:26:55 Quit BHSPitMonkey ("Leaving")
23:27:00amiconngpio A1 doesn't matter at all...
23:27:43Buschel_see you tomorrow
23:27:45 Quit Buschel_ ()
23:28:30Bagdershotofadds_: it's a freenode feature that allows IRC users to set "cloaks", that is change their hostname on the network to a custom string. Like I have "daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder"
23:30:23 Quit ol_schoola ()
23:30:47 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
23:31:58*Bagder needs to acknowledge his own posts on the rockbox users mailing list
23:32:06Bagderbloody annoying
23:32:10amiconnlinuxstb: Iiuc, the whole jabber in the else {} block could be shortened to lcd_type = (GPIOA_INPUT_VAL & 0x10) >> 4;
23:32:15shotofadds_Makes sense.. You can tell I'm a real IRC aficionado, using the web client and all...
23:32:33Bagder:-)
23:32:39Bagderyou'll learn...
23:35:26soapasn, removing the plugins will give you no performance change. Their removal will free up a (small) amount of hard drive space, though.
23:35:46asnsoap: aw okay
23:36:25soapNot compiling them will save some time as well, but hardly noticeable unless your computer is slower or you compile over and over and over again.
23:36:43*shotofadds_ hopes to get some other devs interested in the D2 port.. it being a current, available-in-the-shops target :-)
23:37:25 Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@ppp-70-255-142-39.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)
23:38:14Bagder... and with docs lying around ...
23:38:19 Join qweru [0] (n=kvirc@bb-87-80-66-156.ukonline.co.uk)
23:38:41amiconnshotofadds_: It being a touchscreen target means I will stay far away from it
23:39:32Nico_Pare there any docs about the ipod touch?
23:41:39 Quit webguest45 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:42:20JdGordon|whow much do d2's go for?
23:43:38JdGordon|wyikes... $170 for 4gb
23:44:11 Quit bertrik ("bye")
23:44:23Nico_PJdGordon|w: have you thought about making some sort of an icon based menu for those targets?
23:44:30 Quit ch4os_ ("Lost terminal")
23:44:41nanokhi there
23:45:13JdGordon|wNico_P: yeah, but no more than just thiking about it...
23:45:44JdGordon|wneed to figure out how to allow different sized icon sets
23:45:47nanoki reported some strange problems yesterday, with the sansa e200 crashing from time to time, or outputing only noise instead of sound (aside the fact it is a fuzzy line separating the two :) )
23:46:15nanoki finally erased all my configuration files, databse and so on, and did a fresh install. it seems to have solved it
23:46:18Nico_PJdGordon|w: would it be possible to make it kinda like the list widget and maybe compatible so that the same calls can be used for both?
23:46:30nanok(more testing is needed though)
23:47:02nanokso just wanted to report back, in case someone was wondering ;)
23:48:32JdGordon|wNico_P: thats the only way I'd do it...
23:48:35 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
23:48:43JdGordon|wthe only difference would be the drawing code
23:48:51Nico_Pall good then :)
23:48:53 Join Arathis [0] (n=doerk@p508A40C0.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:49:02 Join Keripo [0] (n=Keripo@CPE001111e441f8-CM001a6680d4fe.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
23:49:10JdGordon|wnanok: did you report it here or on the bug tracker?
23:49:28stripwaxThe file properties (used to be ID3 Info) list viewer seems to be confused about the double-height lines - scrolling to the last item and then wrapping around to the first causes the wrong lines (or no lines at all) to be selected. Known problem?
23:49:51nanokJdGordon|w: no, just here. i wanted to test everything i can on my own, before spaming the flyspray, eliminate all the obvious possibilities
23:49:56nanokit seems it payed off..
23:50:23JdGordon|wwhat payed off?
23:50:47nanokbut i am not yet absolutely sure it is okay. it does look like it is, but time will tell..
23:50:49Nico_Pstripwax: have you seen that I fixed FS #5797 ? I seem to recall you enjoyed that one ;)
23:51:00nanokJdGordon|w: not filling a bug report, and testing first,
23:51:13KeripoSorry to intrude but where can I find the latest SVN builds of ipodpatcher for the different OSs (i.e. mac, linux with diff archs, bsd, windows). Or are the ones on the wiki (v1.0) really the latest?
23:51:19nanokin the idea that maybe there is something wrong with my own setup or i have a hardware issue
23:51:51JdGordon|wKeripo: the ones on the wiki are the recommended version
23:52:00LloreanKeripo: The ones linked in the manual are the latest
23:52:06 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
23:52:19stripwaxNico_P - awesome!
23:52:27nanoki even played music using the OF forseveral hours (and i must say, used to the eq+crossfeed, that sounded.. dull, allthough not bad)
23:55:18nanok(yeah, i know, i'm a hero, i even used the menu system in the OF, and all..)
23:55:22nanok:)
23:55:53KeripoJdGordon: Is there a BSD build anywhere?
23:55:53KeripoLlorean: I'm looking at the manual but I only see links to the daily builds of rockbox and the fonts, but not ipodpatcher (unless I somehow skipped it)
23:58:20JdGordon|wKeripo: dunno... if you have access to a bsd system its no hassle to build one

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