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#rockbox log for 2008-01-18

00:01:53 Quit obo ("bye")
00:04:23pixelmawhile I'm at it... can a native speaker think of an adaptation of this note at the top of the FM-Recorder manual radio chapter http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-fmrecorder/rockbox-buildch5.html#x8-890005.9 for the Sansas?
00:05:37pixelmaor someone else who can do it quickly, somehow my brain throttled down at this moment :)
00:05:45preglowadapt it how?
00:06:19preglowdo sansas sometimes have radio without being supposed to?
00:06:40pixelmathat in some Sansas (even the "european" ones which are not labelled to have... yes
00:07:32 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
00:07:47preglowNOTE: Not all Sansas support radio. Generally all american models do, but european ones might not. If this menu does not show on your unit, you can skip this chapter.
00:07:50preglowsomething like that?
00:09:10 Join cool_walking_ [0] (n=cba165d1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-09a077b4b9737d45)
00:09:43nanokpreglow: actually, this thing abput european models is very strange, i think it is mostly marketing bullshit (allthough i fail to grasp the use of it)
00:09:48 Join LambdaCalculus37 [0] (n=1800d0de@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-695ef4a642e9f0d7)
00:09:48 Quit cool_walking_ (Client Quit)
00:09:52preglowbullshit how?
00:09:58pixelmayes, now that I think about it though... I don't like this european vs. american business because when I bought my c250 it was available "with (of course more expensive) or without radio"
00:10:10nanoki bought mine from europe, with local manuals and warranty, and it says on the box it has fm, and it does have fm
00:10:23nanokyes, exactly
00:10:26preglowpixelma: well, does it always so so on the box if it does support radio?
00:10:28nanokmaybe that's it
00:10:28pixelmaZagor got one without... to find out that it actually had the radio chip
00:10:36nanokso in us it comes only with fm?
00:10:38LambdaCalculus37Why can't SanDisk just be fair and let people HAVE FM radio?
00:11:13nanokyeah, it's not such a big deal anyway. what is it? 5 dolars? 3 dolars? in production price..
00:11:32LambdaCalculus37nanok: I think there's more to it, though.
00:11:32preglowhah
00:11:34preglownot even close
00:11:41preglowthat radio chip might cost a dollar, but i doubt it
00:11:50nanokLambdaCalculus37: yeah, i think so to, but it eludes me
00:12:09pixelmananok: seems like in many the production price doesn't make a difference... if it has the chip and is only disabled in software
00:12:11nanokpreglow: yeah, probably, especially in the quantities they buy it..
00:12:12JdGordon|wisnt there a fm tax in europe which is why its more expensive to get one with the chip?
00:12:25preglowmight be
00:12:30preglowwouldn't surprise me
00:12:40nanokhm, /me doesn't know about that..
00:12:40LambdaCalculus37JdGordon|w: Yeah, I heard about that once.
00:12:59LambdaCalculus37Can one of the European Rockboxers confirm?
00:13:57pixelmaI'm not aware of such a tax (but don't know too much about it) - but I remember that they claimed some legal issues why they didn't sell e200s with radio before
00:14:26pixelmanow you can get both officially
00:14:33 Quit tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε")
00:14:41 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:15:02linuxstb_http://www.tracyandmatt.co.uk/blogs/index.php/2006/12/13/sandisk_add_fm_radio_to_sansa_e200_serie
00:15:08nanokafaik, there is a problem for emiting, not for receiving..
00:15:16nanokbut maybe i'm wrong..
00:16:04LambdaCalculus37Quoth the blog linuxstb_ has provided a link for: Launched earlier this year, the European models in both the Sansa e200 and c200 series did not contain an FM Tuner due to increased costs caused by tax requirements.
00:16:07nanokin the good old days, especially in comunist countryes, you were supposed to pay a monthly fee for owning a radio or tv set, because it was assumed you would listen to the programs, thus had to contribute
00:16:18nanokmaybe it's something reminiscent
00:16:55LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Taxes can count as legal, I guess. :)
00:17:09 Join robin0800 [0] (n=robin080@cpc2-brig8-0-0-cust498.brig.cable.ntl.com)
00:17:24LambdaCalculus37But I'm no lawyer.
00:17:33nanokLambdaCalculus37: well, in some countryes you go to prison for tax evasion, so yeah, i guess they do count :)
00:17:34preglownow retailos has been running for longer than rockbox
00:17:41preglowbut there's only a red sliver left of the battery meter
00:19:12pixelmaso... can we get back to the original question... "some models... with radio... some without... Rockbox enables it if the hardware is present... "
00:19:25pixelma? :)
00:19:27preglowbut as a rule the american ones do have it, yes?
00:19:42LambdaCalculus37Yes.
00:19:49preglowthen i don't see anything wrong with what i wrote
00:20:08 Nick parafin is now known as parafin|away (i=parafin@paraf.in)
00:20:10preglowit's as informative as i can make it without boring the user with details
00:20:45pixelmayeah, ok.
00:21:19pixelmaas I said, thinking a bit slow at the moment :)
00:21:20LambdaCalculus37Started a battery bench on my c240 this morning... maybe I should check in on it.
00:21:54LambdaCalculus37Holy pieces of cow!! It's STILL running! :O
00:22:07 Quit robin0800 (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC")
00:22:23 Join robin0800 [0] (n=robin080@cpc2-brig8-0-0-cust498.brig.cable.ntl.com)
00:23:10JdGordon|whis morning... how long ago?
00:23:18pixelmapreglow: one thing though "support radio" sounds a bit like that could be something that the could change somehow, no?
00:23:20LambdaCalculus37Over 8 hours.
00:23:46LambdaCalculus37It's still on and still playing!
00:24:02JdGordon|wpixelma: you want something like "if the hardware is there then rockbox will use it, you dont have to do anything for the radio option to show"
00:24:10JdGordon|wof course put better than that :p
00:24:20 Quit robin0800 (Client Quit)
00:24:36 Join robin0800 [0] (n=robin080@cpc2-brig8-0-0-cust498.brig.cable.ntl.com)
00:24:47pixelmayes, but put better :P
00:24:56preglowpixelma: yeah, i don't like "support" either
00:25:10JdGordon|wLlorean: you round?
00:27:03preglowNOTE: Not all Sansas have a radio receiver. Generally all american models do, but european models might not. Rockbox will enable the radio menu only if it can find a radio receiver in your Sansa.
00:27:07preglowhow about that?
00:27:37JdGordon|wclose enough
00:27:47JdGordon|wits not like anyone actually reads the manual though :p
00:27:47nanokpreglow: sounds good. maybe s/enable/display
00:27:50pixelmayes, I like that, thank you :)
00:27:53 Quit ally_xoxo ("Leaving")
00:28:00LambdaCalculus37preglow: Sounds much better.
00:28:03nanokJdGordon|w: i did!
00:28:13nanok:)
00:28:24LambdaCalculus37I did too! :)
00:28:28*JdGordon|w hands nanok a cookie
00:28:30preglowi have, partially!
00:28:35preglowi enjoy writing it more :-)
00:28:39pixelmaJdGordon: not that the radio chapter is in a very good state... :\
00:28:51*nanok dunks the cookie in some cola..
00:28:53nanokyummy
00:28:57LloreanJdGordon|w: Only slightly. What's up?
00:29:13JETC-Ah..I see you guys closed custom list >_>
00:29:21*JETC- is compiling now with viewports list
00:29:38JdGordon|wso, I'm actually using my sansa alot now and power stopping and going to the browser is driving me nuts and I'm confused why it does that instead of return to previous?
00:30:17nanokJdGordon|w: you mean when powering donw and up again?
00:30:32JdGordon|wno, i mean pressing the power/menu button
00:30:34nanokthere is an option to which "screen" to go after power up
00:30:40nanokahm, okay
00:30:46JdGordon|wnanok: holy crap!! no way!!!
00:30:57nanokfor that reason i never use stop. i just pause ;/
00:31:00 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
00:31:14*JdGordon|w wonders what sort of genius added that feature :D
00:31:15nanokJdGordon|w: :)
00:31:20LloreanJdGordon|w: I thought "Stop" brings you to the same place "Select" does, it just also stops music?
00:31:50JdGordon|wnot in my testing... thats what I would expect though
00:32:10nanokJdGordon|w: don't take it so hard, i am bound to make the odd goof in here, i don't know everybody ;)
00:32:24nanok(sysadmins are known for their slick social skills...)
00:32:54JdGordon|wLlorean: actually... it might not be a keymap thing but my bad... ill ceck it tonight
00:32:57JdGordon|wapologies
00:33:10JdGordon|wnanok: hehe I was giving you a hard time... I added that feature
00:33:34nanokJdGordon|w: i figured that much ;) i was a nice goof though
00:33:40nanokgood for a laugh :)
00:33:43LloreanJdGordon|w: The *only* thing I did was make "Power" do the same thing as "Stop" everywhere else. Where it goes wasn't something I decided. :)
00:33:51nanok(on your part, ofcourse)
00:34:30 Quit lee-qid (Connection timed out)
00:34:41 Quit krazykit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:34:54LambdaCalculus37My c240 is STILL running! It's been nearly 9 hours already!
00:35:02*Rincewind doesn't like power=stop either
00:35:19nanokJdGordon|w: btw, i just discovered that feature lately, it was really bugging me before. really nice one, saves me getting my hand in my pocket again after power up, and blind-presssing "play"
00:35:36LloreanRincewind: Dislike it on your H100 too?
00:35:47Rincewindit is especially anoying in the menu and in file browser where I don't expect any button to change my music
00:36:09preglowLlorean: so yeah, seems you were right about my nano battery
00:36:27JdGordon|wI wasnt saying I dont like that combo.. just the returning to the browser always throws me offf... im used to the new keymap now
00:36:38RincewindLlorean, the thing is, on my H120 I only have to press stop to shut down. On the sansa the power button is used for other things, too.
00:36:40LloreanJdGordon|w: Yeah, definitely something that could be talked about.
00:36:45preglowit's maybe got one hour left in it now, which leaves it at about 10 hours under retailos, and then 8:40 isn't too bad in rockbox
00:36:45LloreanRincewind: No, it's not.
00:37:04LloreanRincewind: It's used for the same things it is on the H100, or should be unless I've missed something
00:38:01LloreanIf you could track down a specific example where it's not, I'll happily look into resolving it
00:38:29JdGordon|w8473 is definatly one of the ore odd requests ive seen :)
00:38:31RincewindLlorean, one thing is returning from the quick menu
00:38:51LloreanRincewind: It should be possible to return from it in the exact same way you do so on the H100.
00:39:09LloreanOh, wait.
00:39:10LloreanI see.
00:39:15LloreanTried Play/Pause instead?
00:39:18RincewindLlorean, on my h120 I press the menu button again. which isn't possible on sans
00:39:39RincewindI can't try right now, because my sansa is charging
00:39:49LloreanYou can't use it while charging?
00:40:16Rincewindyes, it is charging in OF. because in rockbox it doesn't charge full for me
00:40:28pixelmaeven though I know it is possible, I don't trust it yet
00:40:30 Join cool_walking_ [0] (n=cb3b81c3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-4b3a3219a3420906)
00:40:55pixelmacharging the c200, I mean
00:41:11LloreanWell, we still need that other charging patch
00:42:17 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:42:35*Llorean never even noticed how he left the quickmenu, and his Sansa is 160 miles away.
00:42:38kugelJdGordon|w: hi, how's your progress with your viewports list code?
00:42:49JdGordon|whavnt touched it in a while
00:42:50pixelmaif I hold select while connecting to USB to keep Rockbox running and then watch the battery level in the debug menu it reports wrong (impossible) values
00:43:15LambdaCalculus37I tried charging my c240 in Rockbox earlier today, and it didn't charge it 100%. So I just charged it in the OF.
00:43:37LambdaCalculus37pixelma: I got the same thing on my c240.
00:43:47pixelmaamiconn once put it something like this "if that was true (+4.6V) the battery would have already been exploded"
00:45:00kugelJdGordon|w: Sad, since fs#5899 got closed now. I think I will have a look into it soon. But nor before monday
00:45:08kugelnot*
00:45:27JdGordon|wcool
00:46:12preglowanyone tried to use the tv out on a newish ipod?
00:46:22preglowi'm really curious of how nice the quality is
00:46:28kugelI still wonder why you have so much RTL_DRAWING #ifs in it
00:46:53LambdaCalculus37preglow: I used it on my iPod video.
00:47:09LambdaCalculus37I say the quality is between VHS and DVD quality.
00:47:49Lloreanpreglow: I've used it on the Gigabeat S, but not an iPod
00:48:00preglowLlorean: curious how it looks there too
00:48:15 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:48:16LloreanI'd say "Cable TV quality, standard definition, maybe a slight bit lower"
00:48:20LambdaCalculus37Llorean: How does it look on the Gigabeat S?
00:48:33LloreanOf course, the video I was playing was 320x240 as a test.
00:48:36preglowi'm really tickled by the idea of being able to carry movies around that easily
00:48:37LambdaCalculus37Never mind... lag.
00:48:41preglowno transcoding, of course...
00:48:59preglowgigabeat s should be able to do that
00:49:01pixelmaLlorean: btw. I noticed today that I can also hear the noise during buffering on my c250 - at least the initial one (with normal earphones, no in-ears and at a quite low volume)
00:49:19Lloreanpreglow: Rumor has it the Gigabeat S's chip can output at a range of resolutions above and beyond full SDTV, which would suggest if it's fast enough that you could carry true DVD-quality encodes.
00:49:37LambdaCalculus37preglow: IIRC the Apple's OF outputs to TV out at 640x480.
00:49:39Lloreanpixelma: So it's probably the same as the e200 in that regard
00:50:19LambdaCalculus37Llorean: If the rumors are true...
00:50:35*LambdaCalculus37 figures to hell with the Gigabeat F; get an S instead :)
00:50:37LloreanLambdaCalculus37: Well the rumor takes the form of a datasheet that seems to be for the chip in it.
00:50:41preglowLambdaCalculus37: well, i don't think that's too bad
00:50:45SubliminautHeyo, any idea why my 5.5g says in the debug info that the database progress is -1% (0 entries) , and when I look at any sort category in the Database menu, it says "Searching . . . 0 Found ( )" while it loads whatever category?
00:51:36pixelmawell, I can't compare but in this regard the Ondio is much better (I admit I like its sound quality better in general - compared to the same mp3s of course)
00:51:52LloreanWell the e200s also have a noise problem, so yeah
00:51:57LloreanIt seems likely
00:52:01kugelJdGordon|w: In case you didn't read. I wonder why you used HAVE_RTL_DRAWING so often
00:52:42 Quit robin0800 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:52:59kugelBtw, I think viewports are a great opportunity to introduce 90° rotation
00:53:10preglowkugel: why does viewports make that any easier?
00:53:17LambdaCalculus37Clicking the hold switch off and on just to check the battery on my c240 shouldn't disrupt the battery bench, should it?
00:53:23JdGordon|wkugel: didnt I asnwer than in the tracker?
00:53:47kugelpreglow: Didn't say that. Just...while we're at changing the gui a bit internally
00:54:33 Quit ender` (" Never put off til tomorow what you can skip altogether.")
00:54:40LloreanSounds like a good plan. Delay viewports an unpredictable amount of time for a feature that most users won't even use, and is unrelated.
00:54:41 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:54:42kugelJdGordon|w: No. At least firefox search didn't find one HAVE_RTL_DRAWING ;)
00:55:18kugelLlorean: Actually I heard many users wishing this feature
00:55:33kugelSo I doubt that most users wouldn't use it
00:55:37scorche|wmany = 5? 10?
00:55:40Lloreankugel: I highly expect that most users won't use it.
00:56:02LloreanIt might be possible most Sansa users will use it. Maybe.
00:56:17LloreanBut Rockbox is on a rather lot more players than "The Sansa"
00:56:19JdGordon|wkugel: check the origional viewports task
00:56:40Lloreankugel: I also don't see what's stopping you from working on it, if you really want to.
00:56:44amiconnA small percentage of portrait-type targets might perhaps use it.
00:56:46kugelLlorean: on every target with portrait lcd, I'd say
00:56:55Lloreankugel: So, all two of them?
00:57:08JdGordon|wand I think in the apps/ layer viewports _could_ possibly make orientation a bit easier, but not by much
00:57:18LambdaCalculus37Meal time... I'm off.
00:57:20 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("CGI:IRC")
00:58:07amiconnBut unlike flip which almost comes for free (and actually only exists on those targets where it's possible the cheap way), 90 rotation would be a quite complex feature (except on square colour lcds - where it wouldn't make sense)
00:58:14toffe82Llorean, preglow The video chip on S (F456) can go up to 1080i at 60Hz (input data must be interlaced)
00:58:27kugelEven if it would be only one! I expect the the supported target list to grow, and I don't expect the industry to use only landscape-type from now on, so it be a nice investment for future use
00:58:48preglowtoffe82: that's a good reason to optimize the video codecs...
00:58:53kugelJdGordon|w: I did, every other didn't make sense to me. Gonna re-read
00:59:08JdGordon|wok
00:59:33toffe82preglow: yes but I don't think you can ouput this on the composite video
00:59:40PuppiesOnAcid`is rockbox designed for plugins to show stuff in context menus?
00:59:46JdGordon|wwell.. its there becasue I tried adding it in so for RTL ;anguages (hebrew and arabic) the icons and bar would be on te right... but it doesnt work well so its ifdefed out
00:59:49preglowtoffe82: it's only got composite out?
00:59:56 Nick PuppiesOnAcid` is now known as PuppiesOnAcid (n=asdf@ip70-179-173-189.fv.ks.cox.net)
01:00
01:00:09JdGordon|wit needs firmware/ to be able to draw the text right justified for it to be worth adding...
01:00:35JdGordon|wwhich I dont think is actually difficult to do for fixed-width fonts
01:00:38Lloreankugel: If you think it's so important, implement it.
01:00:38toffe82and S video through the dock connector if I remember
01:00:59preglowthat sucks
01:01:03kugelLlorean: I doubt I'm able to
01:01:09preglowthough s video is better than nothing
01:01:19JdGordon|wamiconn: what do you rekon about draweinf text right aligned in the viewport? possible?
01:01:26scorche|wwith the way that thing was designed, i am surprised they dont have HDMI coming from the S....
01:01:33toffe82preglow: s video on the dock connector , it is on the block diagram
01:01:46Lloreankugel: Well, "someone who's interested in it, but has more yet to learn" is more likely to get it done than "someone who knows how, but doesn't care"
01:01:53LloreanSo if you doubt you're able to, start learning
01:02:15amiconnJdGordon: What's the problem with right justified text? You can do that now...
01:02:24JdGordon|w?
01:02:30amiconnJust use lcd_getstringsize(), and the place the text accordingly...
01:02:37amiconns/the/then/
01:02:39JdGordon|wwithout having to do that
01:02:46toffe82but in standard video pal or ntsc, it can display 1024 x 768
01:03:16kugelLlorean: I never say "please implement it asap with viewports or I'm gonna die" or something. I just stated my opinion that now would be a more siutable situation than like before the viewports thing
01:03:43JdGordon|wamiconn: would it be possible to draw the string backwards in the viewport?
01:04:03kugelLlorean: Also, I am leaning. Every day, but that doesn't mean I can do great stuff at the moment
01:04:05amiconnWell, lcd_putsxy already handles ltr<->rtl. Probably lcd_puts() (*not* lcd_putsxy()) could check a viewport-global rtl flag, and act accordingly
01:04:23 Part toffe82
01:05:38amiconnCurrently text output only handles embedded direction changes, but not a global (default) direction. For proper hebrew+arabic support it should, and the .lang/.lng files need a diretionality (?) flag
01:06:16 Join krazykit [0] (n=kkit@140.141.209.134)
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01:07:18amiconnkugel: There are several non-trivial problems to solve with display rotation. Non-constant x and y dimensions is just one of them, which is indeed a bit easier to solve with viewports
01:07:24 Quit MethoS_mobile (Remote closed the connection)
01:07:35amiconnBut that's the *only* problem of rotation that viewports would help to solve
01:08:01JETC-Hrm
01:08:33amiconnThere at least 2 more: * Flip is possible without redrawing the whole display contents. Rotation is not (except for the square lcd case)
01:08:41JETC-I get an error when apply FS #8457 (lists using viewports)
01:08:48JETC-Actually a whole bunch
01:08:58 Part Llorean
01:09:52kugelamiconn: Yea, I see. This is why I doubt I'm able to do this.
01:09:52amiconn* With lcd depths below a bit (packed pixels), the rotated has different bit packing, that means it would practically need a second lcd driver
01:10:07amiconn^below 8 bit
01:10:29kugelI just think that now is a suitable situation since more people are working on the gui now
01:10:36JETC-http://jetc.110mb.com/misc/logfile7.txt
01:10:57 Join krazykit [0] (n=kkit@140.141.209.134)
01:11:02amiconnAnd that second driver would also mean all bitmaps need to exist in 2 versions, or you would lose a lot of performance
01:12:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:12:37amiconnThis problem does not exist on 8 bit (or higher) lcd depths (i.e. colour lcds), but even there are some problems. For controller where we don't know how to switch update directions, the update function would have to read the framebuffer in non-contiguous fashion
01:13:03kugelWell, but honestly, there's no portrait-type target having less than 16bit. And I highly doubt that there will be one coming into rockbox
01:13:26amiconnAnd those controllers exist... I know of at least 3. iPod Video, iPod color (only the type0 lcd variant), and Sansa e200 (iirc)
01:13:36JdGordon|wits not only portaight displays youd want to rotate...
01:14:30kugelWell, I'm a sansa user. While I want to rotate by 90°, I doubt there's a use for those who have allready landscape
01:14:54kugelbut, on the other hand, I don't want to exclude them from a feature
01:15:39kugelespecially since potrait has its advantages at times
01:15:44JETC-JdGordon: is your viewports list patch in sync with the latest svn?
01:15:50JETC-It seems to break on me on compile
01:15:56amiconnWell, what might make sense (and be a lot easier to implement that general rotation), is to include 90 rotated font drawing, enabling some gui elements to do their own, soft rotation
01:16:04JETC-Just asking btw ;d
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01:17:31kugelamiconn: exactly, from the portrait-type point of view, I mainly want to have rotation for wps and some plugins. In lists I'm fine with portrait
01:17:48amiconnBut since this would still mean quite a bunch of additional code, it should be implemented as a compile-time option, excluding lowmem targets like the archoses, iFP, and potentially others in the future (e.g. logikdax?)
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01:41:30 Quit ol_schoola ()
01:41:50stripwaxpreglow - (I've tried tv out too - and agree with the somewhere-between-vhs-and-dvd quality comment)
01:42:22stripwaxSo according to one of the portalplayer blurbs, the pp502x supports hardware YUV decoding?
01:43:01preglowreally?
01:43:13preglowdon't remember seeing that
01:43:18*stripwax checks
01:44:11RincewindI want to set up a new build environment but ftp.gnu.org is down so rockbox.sh can't download binutils and other stuff :(
01:45:08 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
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01:46:29stripwaxpreglow - I saw "hardware color space conversion" here. But maybe, that means the FDK includes software support for external devices that implement hardware color space conversion (rather than pp itself including such hardware). Not clear, I admit.. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_March_3/ai_n11840160/pg_2
01:46:53alisonhey i got a problem with my rockbox,
01:47:06alisonBigbami you still here?
01:47:26alisonany active helpers here?
01:47:39stripwaxalison - what's the question
01:47:43cool_walking_Rincewind: Change the script to point at one of the mirrors here http://www.gnu.org/order/ftp.html
01:47:50preglowstripwax: it's not used much anyway, then, only movie playback done with pp ipods happens in the bcm
01:48:11alisonwell stripwax:
01:48:20stripwax?
01:48:21alisonme and bigbambi were working on setting up my rockbox
01:48:26alisonhe said were were almost finished
01:48:31alisonuntil we encountered a problem
01:48:44stripwaxalison - please press enter less - just post the entire question if you can
01:48:52Rincewindcool_walking_, that's exactly what I am doing now
01:49:15alisoni had my ipod restored using "mac" but it needed windows FAT32. So when we tried to install the rockbox it gave us an error. So he had me restore my ipod using windows
01:49:19alisonso here i am :)
01:49:43alisondo i have to complete the whole process again or can i start off were i started last?
01:50:27cool_walking_alison: you have to start again
01:50:33alisonoh no!
01:50:40alisonokay let me try and mount it real quick
01:50:43stripwaxpreglow - not sure I parsed that correctly - the bcm is totally separate from this interface? and if that so (which it undoubtably is), it doesn't prevent rockbox from using the pp hardware (assuming we could figure out how to use it)
01:51:04preglowstripwax: the bcm is a separate chip
01:51:14SubliminautHeyo, any idea why my 5.5g says in the debug info that the database progress is -1% (0 entries) , and when I look at any sort category in the Database menu, it says "Searching . . . 0 Found ( )" while it loads whatever category?
01:51:20preglowstripwax: yeah, but it's a bit hard to use when we have no software to disassemble that uses it :)
01:51:25stripwaxpreglow - it just takes the raw mpeg bitstream?
01:51:30stripwaxpreglow - right .. :)
01:51:57preglowstripwax: don't really know how it works, but the lcd is connected to the bcm, so i doubt it passes anything back to the pp for processing
01:52:02cool_walking_alison: It's pretty simple. just run ipodpatcher and then copy a current build to your player. What instructions are you following?
01:52:10alisonok installing my boot loader right now
01:52:13alisoncool_walking_
01:52:22alisoni ran rbutilqt before the ipodpatcher
01:52:25alisoni am on linux/ubuntu
01:52:56stripwaxpreglow - no chance the bcm is being used as just a frame buffer? do we know for certainty that ipod video doesn't do software decoding of video?
01:53:19preglowstripwax: for sure, it would never in hell be able to do h264 at the bitrates it does
01:53:26stripwaxfair enough
01:53:37preglowstripwax: and that'd be one expensive and powerful frame buffer :)
01:53:55preglowit's easily four times as powerful as the pp
01:53:59alisonis that a problem cool__walking?
01:54:11stripwaxpreglow - crikey. I had no idea
01:54:29cool_walking_alison: I think rbutilqt is supposed to set up both the boot loader and a build for you (.i.e. don't need to run ipodpatcher and copy a build). Though it didn't work for me as it couldn't find my iPod.
01:54:36cool_walking_alison: what? that you're on linux? no
01:54:39PaulJam_Subliminaut: but does the database show all yor songs? i think it can happen that hte debug menu shows weird values for the database, but it shouldn't affect its operation.
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01:54:50*stripwax sleeps
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01:55:13alisonno cool_walking. I was worried i ran rbutilqt and clicked "complete install" without running "ipodpatcher"
01:55:33alisoni have ipod 30GB Video
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01:55:45LambdaCalculus3710+ hours...
01:55:52 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
01:56:03LambdaCalculus37My Sansa c240 is STILL running after 10+ hours...
01:56:27alisonhey lambdaCalculus37 :) your back
01:56:45pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: is that an svn build?
01:56:50cool_walking_alison: if you ran rbutilqt successfully, it should have installed the boot loader and a build, at which point Rockbox should work
01:57:00LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Yes; running r16096 right now.
01:57:09alisoncool_walking: then why was i told to download ipodpatcher?
01:57:48LambdaCalculus37alison: Because that was to do it manually, in case Rockbox Utility didn't work.
01:57:53cool_walking_alison: Did you run rbutilqt before or after formatting the iPod to FAT32?
01:58:40alisonno. my ipod was "restored" using my Mac computer. We got an error setting up Rockbox. So i went back to my Windows "restored it" with Fat32 and now rbutilqt seems to be working just fine
01:58:54alisoninstalling rockbox player "current" build. Or should it be archive?
01:58:57pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: ok, I should probably try again. My impression was that it got better anyways since I last did a battery bench
01:59:07LambdaCalculus37alison: No, current build will be fine.
01:59:11pixelmaruntime I mean
01:59:13alisonok
01:59:37*pixelma should probably get some sleep too - night
01:59:39LambdaCalculus37pixelma: When it runs out and I can retrieve the battery_bench.txt file, then we'll know for sure. :)
01:59:47LambdaCalculus37Good night, pixelma!
02:00
02:00:00alisoncool_walking, LambdaCalculus37 says "RockBox" finished successfully
02:00:05alisonwhats left to do?
02:00:26pixelmahope I didn't break some manuals but my test compiles all went fine :)
02:00:28alisonim installing fonts and themes.
02:00:52LambdaCalculus37alison: Get some music after that, and sit back and enjoy Rockbox!
02:00:53 Quit JdGordon|w ("CGI:IRC")
02:01:05amiconnpreglow: Afaik the ipod color also has tv out - and that model has no bcm
02:01:38amiconnI wonder how the tv out is hooked up there
02:01:41LambdaCalculus37amiconn: The iPod color does indeed have TV out. It uses it to display photos on your TV.
02:01:50alisonmy ipod is still connect to USB. Looks normal still.
02:01:55 Part pixelma
02:01:55LambdaCalculus37It's a third ring in the headphone jack IIRC.
02:02:34amiconnLambdaCalculus37: I mean what chip, how it is controlled from the bcm, and what hardware acceleration support is there (if any)
02:02:42cool_walking_alison: Just disconnect it and reboot it (I can't remember if it reboots itself when you disconnect it).
02:02:43amiconns/bcm/pp/
02:02:50alisonok thanks cool_walking
02:02:54 Quit karashata (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.")
02:03:06alisonhey another question, can Apple find out if you voided the agreement using rockbox instead of apple software?
02:03:36alisonlets say your ipod breaks, but you got 1 yr service. so you take it there to get it fixed
02:03:48alisonwouldn't they find out what you did?
02:03:52cool_walking_alison: It is simple to completely remove every trace of Rockbox, but it's not very nice for Apple if you do that.
02:04:13alisontrue
02:04:31alisoncan you run "boot n nuke on ipod" to wipe all data from the harddrive?
02:05:15LambdaCalculus37amiconn: In that case, I'm not very sure.
02:05:24cool_walking_alison: A "restore" in iTunes will remove everything.... *sigh* I would probably do the same thing, but... it's still not nice
02:05:36alisonhaha
02:05:39alisoncool_walking
02:06:04alisoni finished with all my themes and installation. So i just remove from the USB? and MENU+SELECT AND MENU+PLAY?
02:06:16LambdaCalculus37Just MENU+SELECT.
02:06:20alisongreat
02:06:22cool_walking_alison: Not MENU+PLAY - that is to go into disk mode
02:06:31alisonlambdaCalculus and cool_walking wish me luck!
02:06:34alisonrebooting
02:06:59*Subliminaut drops his pants and shits everywhere
02:07:20cool_walking_That was unexpected
02:07:29LambdaCalculus37What in Hades was that all about!?
02:08:01cool_walking_Hades the place or Hades the guy?
02:08:14LambdaCalculus37Hades the place.
02:08:14 Quit Subliminaut ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02:08:41alisonok
02:08:46alisoni dont see any of my themes...
02:08:52amiconnalison: You can't break an ipod by installing rockbox. If it doesn't boot anymore, you can always reset, go to diskmode, and start over (restoring first if necessary)
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02:09:30alisonomg
02:09:32alisonits working
02:09:33alisonthanks guys
02:09:45LambdaCalculus37alison: You're welcome! :)
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02:10:19preglowcan't this retailos die soon, i want to go to bed :/
02:11:08cool_walking_Ha. I don't think I've got the patience for a retail bench. Not being able to use my iPod while doing a Rockbox bench was bad enough...
02:11:09LambdaCalculus37preglow: Still running?
02:11:15PaulJam_preglow: connect it to the line in of you pc and start a low quality recording. so you can see when it stopped tomorrow.
02:11:17*amiconn wonders why preglow doesn't use somemethod to do unattended runtime tests
02:11:38cool_walking_Videotape the thing sitting there?
02:11:46preglowPaulJam_: that'd alter runtime, since line in sucks no power
02:11:55preglowamiconn: what method would that be?
02:12:06amiconnWhat PaulJam_ suggested...
02:12:19preglowwell, what i said
02:12:40preglowi'd have to do a similar test with rockbox for the test to be valid
02:12:40PaulJam_alternatively you could use a microphone near the headphones
02:12:43preglowand i can't be bothered
02:12:49amiconnWell, at moderate listening volumes, the power drain from the earphones is neglectable
02:12:50preglowPaulJam_: better solution
02:13:02LambdaCalculus37I have to do a test with the OF on my c240 to see a comparison.
02:13:48amiconnBut if you want to take it into account, solder a line cable with some 16 ohm resistors in parallel, or use an Y cable and plug in both the headphone and your pc's line in
02:14:20alisonhey cool_walking:
02:14:39alisonhow can i put songs on an ipod without itunes? Is there any other manager to do that?
02:14:39*amiconn always does runtime tests at line level without load
02:15:15LambdaCalculus37alison: You can copy the songs directly onto your iPod.
02:15:33alisonok
02:15:46alisonhow come everytime i "disconnect" my ipod
02:15:55alisoni get the "rockbox" display screen before my theme boots
02:16:00alisonhow can i change that?
02:16:25cool_walking_alison: You can change the boot screen, but you need to compile your own build.
02:17:02cool_walking_alison: See http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SimpleGuideToCompiling if you want to do that.
02:17:12alisonis it hard?
02:17:48amiconnpreglow: Example: If I use 16 ohm earphones, the device is able to output 10mW maximum (0 db) to those, and I set a listening volume of -30dB (the maximum I choose outdoors with 16 ohms; indoors I'd rather use -40..-50dB), that means the headphones comsume a mere 10uW
02:17:49cool_walking_not really. Lots of people have done it.
02:20:06LambdaCalculus37alison: Just follow the instructions carefully and you'll be fine.
02:20:32alisonokay
02:22:28alisonwhat theme are you using cool_walking?
02:22:49cool_walking_I'm using "Slant"
02:22:59alisonhow about the font?
02:23:12cool_walking_Hold on I'll check
02:23:22alisonok
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02:25:01alisonLambdaCalculus37: i got a problem
02:25:02amiconnTaking the low efficiency of the headphone amplifier at low output power into account, this amounts to a maximum of ~2.5mW (assuming the headphone amp is running from 3.3V). Compare that to the typical consumption of 80mW for the whole nano (OF playing music). Okay, that's about 3%...
02:25:15alisonone of the themes i tried, only 90% of the thing shows
02:25:27alisonthe bottom part scrolls the song title but it doesnt display
02:25:45alisonwhy is that?
02:25:59alisonrockbox "blueray theme" give me the problem
02:26:02cool_walking_alison: I'm using "courB14_1.fnt", but I think Slant uses "nimbus" by default.
02:26:15amiconnpreglow: When did you start your runtime test?
02:26:33preglowamiconn: 15:30
02:26:40amiconnoh
02:26:54preglowbattery meter is two pixels wide now
02:26:56alisonhow come i do not haev "slant" theme on my rockbox?
02:27:08preglowbut that means nano hits 11 hours with retailos on my tired old battery
02:27:11LambdaCalculus37alison: You have to download the theme.
02:27:13preglow08:40 with buschel's patch
02:27:18alisonoh ic
02:27:19preglowwhich isn't half-bad, but i want more :/
02:27:31alisonlambdacalculus37: you get my message about the problem?
02:27:45amiconnWith a fresh battery it should run for ~14 hours according to http://www.ipodbatteryfaq.com/ipodbatteryandpower.html
02:28:01preglowyeah, but this isn't fresh
02:28:33LambdaCalculus37alison: Some themes that use incorrect WPS code won't displaty right. But you can also try clearing your settings and reloading the theme again.
02:28:49alisoni can change the WPS code?
02:29:27LambdaCalculus37alison: Sure. Here's the page describing the WPS parser code: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome?topic=CustomWPS
02:29:35alisonok
02:29:37alisonthanks
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02:30:19alisonoh wow
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02:37:07JETC-Whoo
02:37:16JETC-My battery went to 25hrs on 90% charge :3
02:37:24preglowtarget?
02:38:22JETC-X5L
02:38:35preglowahh, that's normal, then
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02:39:03amiconnI'd even expect more than 25 hours of runtime from an X5L...
02:39:13JETC-Yeah..it was only 90%charged
02:39:28LambdaCalculus37amiconn: I hear the M5L can get up to 50 hours of runtime.
02:39:31JETC-Probably even less with how inaccurate the battery meter in the charge is
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02:39:57amiconnLambdaCalculus37: Hehe. It was me who carried out the runtime measurement on M5L. Just 3 minutes short of 52 hours
02:40:33JETC-Really :3
02:40:34JETC-Wow
02:40:38LambdaCalculus37amiconn: Whoa! That's impressive!
02:41:07amiconnThat whas with my standard mp3 test set (lame −−preset standard, ~200kbps on average). Line out, 0dB, no treble/bass/eq/crossfeed/crossfade or other extras
02:41:16JETC-Oh
02:41:20JETC-There were extras for mine
02:41:21JETC-:x
02:41:36JETC-And most of my songs are 320kbps
02:41:44JETC-Go nightwish~ >_>
02:42:45JETC-Anyway, it's fully charged so I'll run the test again.
02:43:05JETC-Does the length of the playlist affect it?
02:43:35amiconnNo, at least not with the current playback system
02:43:53JETC-Ok, that's good
02:44:07amiconnBtw, the test also ran without activating the backlight (advantage on M5(L) here: display is readable without backlight)
02:44:37PaulJam_a longer playlist would propably improve runtime since rockbox doesn't fill the buffer completely on the end of the playlist
02:44:40JETC-Lol..doesn't have that with mine
02:45:10amiconnPaulJam_: If 'repeat all' is emabled, rockbox should always fill the buffer completely
02:45:25LambdaCalculus37Running the test on my c240 unfortunately means that I have to click hold on and off so I can at least see how far it is.
02:45:59PaulJam_really? i thought it doesn't. (but i have to admit i never use the repeat all function)
02:46:20amiconnJETC-: Well, the backlight is a considerable power sucker. I also carried out a series of tests on my X5 (not L)
02:46:34JETC-Well, the only crappy thing about that test is that...sure it went over 25hrs but really when you're on the last 3hours or so and you turn it off, it won't start backup again
02:47:01JETC-That's what I've noticed anyway
02:47:28amiconnNo backlight: ~15 hours. Backlight always-on, brightness = 5: ~10.5 hours, brightness = 10: ~8.5 hours, brightness = 13 (full): ~7 hours
02:47:37JETC-Mine reads 15hrs of battery life on a full charge on my player and when I'm on the last 2-3hrs left and turn it off, I can't turn it back on because of the insufficient voltage to start it back up
02:47:44LambdaCalculus37amiconn: That on your X5?
02:47:51amiconnyes
02:48:06Mouser_X to download the NiGHTS set. The problem is that I don't have a torrent client.
02:48:07Mouser_XRecommendations, for Linux?
02:48:16Mouser_XI'm currently attempting to install Opera. Things are going horrribly slow.
02:48:35LambdaCalculus37Mouser_X: Oi... I think you're getting wires crossed.
02:48:45Mouser_XI'm attempting to figure out what files to delete on my Gigabeat to make enough room for some music I want to put on there (of course, I'm also trying to make room for the NiGHTS set on there was well.)
02:49:01amiconnM5L with backlight always-on went for 36 hours (still impressive) instead of the nearly 52 hours without
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02:50:45LambdaCalculus37amiconn: Very impressive.
02:50:53*amiconn has a local list of 35 runtime test results (various targets), including logs
02:52:40 Quit ally_xoxo ("Leaving")
02:52:56*amiconn notices that his 2nd Gen result is missing...
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03:00
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03:06:54LambdaCalculus37Well, I'm headed off for now... see everyone tomorrow!
03:07:01LambdaCalculus37Or later! :)
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03:07:48saratogaanyone have any thoughts about where the default theme backdrop should go in SVN?
03:07:48 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:08:34saratogacurrently we have a backdrops folder in builds but not in SVN
03:08:57saratogawe could add one, or alternatively it could be put in the WPS folder with the other bitmaps I suppose
03:12:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:17:36cool_walking_I would say add a backdrops folder. Keeping the source and build structure the same seems like a good idea.
03:19:12saratogaalso, does anyone know what the height and width features in the WPSLIST actually do?
03:19:20saratogaas far as I can tell, the parser ignores them
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04:19:51alisonhey cool_walking_
04:19:53alisongot a second?
04:20:13alisoni can't figure out how to turn off my ipod with rockbox..
04:20:26LloreanHold down Play/Pause
04:20:31alisonok
04:20:37asnalison: like with apple's firmware
04:20:45alisonright
04:20:54alisonwell, before i tried "menu/select"
04:21:08alisonand it actually removed the rockbox and my apple software reappeared
04:21:16alisonthen i hit select/play again
04:21:29alisonit rebooted and my rockbox loaded again. Is that normal?
04:21:44krazykitit means you didn't remove rockbox
04:22:00alisonwell when the ipod turned back on, apple software was there
04:22:09alisonthen when i turned it off again, rockbox appeared....
04:22:15alisonit just seems rather strange to me
04:22:18krazykitoh, you rebooted into the apple firmware
04:23:24krazykitthis is covered in the manual, which i suggest you read (sorry about misinterpreting "removed")
04:23:26LloreanJust means that after holding menu and select down, you held Menu just a bit too long.
04:23:36alisonyeah
04:23:38alisonoh okay
04:23:47alisonwell why cant i completly remove apple firmware?
04:23:50LloreanMenu+Select reboots the iPod, it doesn't shut down. While booting, having the hold switch on or holding down Menu can trigger booting into the Apple firmware instead of Rockbox
04:24:02LloreanYou can completely remove the Apple firmware
04:24:10LloreanIt's just a bit more complicated than installing Rockbox at the moment
04:24:18scorcheand no real reason...
04:24:19alisonoh okay
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04:26:21saratogaanyone around whos familar with the WPS system?
04:26:34saratogai've nearly got a patch ready to update it for the new cabbie theme
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04:34:35saratogaLlorean: do you have any idea why it was necessary to have a unifont and a default version of Cabbiev2?
04:35:08LloreanSomeone objected to the fact that the default version of it couldn't display unicode characters they wanted displayed, so the mob vote decided to make two versions
04:35:46saratogawould it be possible to just merge the two fonts?
04:36:02saratogabecause having two fonts means having to copies of each and every BMP and there are a lot of them
04:36:16LloreanWell, I think they're quite different sized fonts.
04:36:35LloreanI mean, it'd be possible, albeit a little ugly, for any theme where the heights are the same, I imagine.
04:36:53saratogai assume they use the same number of pixels for each though?
04:36:58saratogaor does it not work like that?
04:38:15LloreanI think they created two completely unique versions of the theme
04:38:21LloreanOne that uses the larger unifont, and displays less information
04:38:28saratogaugh
04:38:43LloreanI wouldn't object to dropping one or the other, honestly.
04:38:45LloreanJust pick one.
04:38:50LloreanThe non-unifont is prettier.
04:38:53saratogathe way they did it adds >1MB to the 7z file size of a rockbox build
04:39:04saratogai imagine the zip gets even larger
04:39:05LloreanUnifont is also just a huge font file all on its own
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04:40:26saratogai was just refering to the bmps
04:40:34saratogaunifont is another 500KB on top of that
04:40:51LloreanYeah
04:41:00saratogaactually the bmps don't go into builds so never mind
04:41:07saratogastill i dislike the idea of having two copies of everything
04:41:08LloreanHonestly, I wouldn't object to dropping the unifont version, but making it extremely obvious on the "Extras" page
04:41:30saratogai was going to suggest dropping the default version, so that we at least support all languages by default
04:41:35saratogais the stock one that ugly?
04:41:41saratogaerr unifont i mean
04:43:46LloreanUnifont itself is ugly
04:43:52LloreanThe theme is fine.
04:43:58LloreanUnifont just has really thin letters.
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04:44:32LloreanIf there were bold forms of the Latin character set it might look nicer.
04:44:35LloreanBut really, either way works for me.
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04:47:54saratogaLlorean: well i won't commit the theme itself yet, needs some people to actually test it first
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04:48:13saratogabut i would like to commit the improvements to buildwps.pl
04:48:42LloreanAaaah
04:48:45saratogado you think I should wait for one the swedes to look over it or just commit it now?
04:48:52LloreanI'd say go ahead with it.
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04:49:16psycho_maniacanybody ever see soebody just go on the forums or here and just ask plainly "how do i install rockbox" ?
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04:49:31saratogayeah people do that all the time
04:49:34LloreanFrequently
04:49:37saratogausually i just lock their threads
04:49:52psycho_maniacit just pisses me off how they review rockbox and they dont know anything about it when they do
04:50:05saratogawhile supressing the urge to reply "GETOUT BEFORE ITS TOO LATE"
04:50:26psycho_maniacheh
04:50:49saratogathats part of the reason i want a default theme, gives the project a better image I think
04:51:33psycho_maniacyes i completly agree
04:51:44saratogamakes us look less ameturish then giving a blank theme that hasn't been substantially revised since the days before color screens
04:52:30LloreanAgreed
04:53:39psycho_maniacthats the first question on the FAQ i think. "It doesnt look very pretty" which should stop people from asking this.
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05:00:20saratogaok committed
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05:06:02LloreanI'd say go ahead and commit the non-unifont version, then bring up the unifont version for discussion later, maybe?
05:07:15saratogaLlorean: you think people will be ok with me adding a backdrops folder in the root of the rockbox SVN?
05:07:40LloreanIn /.rockbox you mean?
05:07:56saratogayeah
05:08:19saratogawell i mean in the source code itself, not builds
05:08:39LloreanNow I'm slightly confused.
05:08:43saratogaright now when you checkout rockbox you don't get a backdrops folder since we don't have any, but when you build rockbox it creates one in the build
05:08:46LloreanAs a search path for the %X tag?
05:08:59LloreanOr do you mean in the wps building script?
05:09:07saratogaits all done from the build script
05:09:14LloreanAh
05:09:23LloreanI can't imagine why it'd upset anyone
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05:20:38safetydanand if someone does get upset they can always roll it back
05:21:56saratogawhats the difference between a bdf and fnt font?
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05:24:33saratogait seems that bdf fonts are ignored by the install script?
05:24:49Lloreanfnt fonts are created from bdfs
05:25:24saratogaah i have that backwards
05:25:33saratogafnt files are ignored
05:25:55LloreanUnless you make fullzip.
05:26:53saratogaany idea where i can get hevetica in bdf format?
05:28:01Lloreanrasher's site?
05:28:18LloreanThere's like 50 billion fonts here: rasher.dk/rockbox/fonts/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/fonts/
05:28:24LloreanWell, maybe a more realistic number
05:29:04saratogaLlorean: which DPI?
05:29:41LloreanOh, those are all preconverted to fnt apparently
05:29:51LloreanBut they all come from freedesktop.org it seems
05:31:22saratogai'll post what i have on the tracker, it works with cabbie aside from the unifont version and the fonts, but neither is a huge deal right now
05:31:29saratogashould still be good enough for people to try out
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05:53:50strawsberyCould i have write permission for the wiki? My wiki name is DavidStaas
05:54:53strawsberyI am trying to make a line out cable for the gigabeat F series to use with external amplifiers
05:56:02strawsberyI have been searching around and have found nothing about a line out cable though the wiki has some information on the base station and its pinout
05:57:13Mouser_Xstrawsbery: Ask toffe82. He's done a lot of work on the hardware of the Gigabeat.
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05:58:00jhulststrawsbery: You should be all set for wiki access
05:58:33webguest38I plugged my ipod into a computer with itunes, and now i can't access rockbox on it.
05:58:55strawsberyI think he's responsible for the pinout that I was looking at. It has been helpful but I want to put a guide on how to make line out cables up as I work on my project
05:59:13webguest38halp?
05:59:49strawsberyjhulst: Thanks a lot and I hope that the community will find my project usefull/interesting
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06:00:07toffe82strawsbery: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatPortPins#Dock_connector
06:00:27scorcheheh...
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06:00:49toffe82You just need to find the connector :)
06:01:28strawsberyIt's been found
06:02:03strawsberyToshiba uses the same connector with a different pinout for their E800 PDA
06:02:08webguest38how do i turn rockboc back on?
06:02:18webguest38*rockbox
06:02:47toffe82you should update on this page http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatCustomdock
06:03:48toffe82strawsbery: take care about the connector of the e800 as some came with a little circuit inside, so don't connect direct without modification
06:04:38cool_walking_webguest38: Hold SELECT+MENU to reboot the iPod. It should boot into Rockbox.
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06:09:03webguest38thanks
06:09:14cool_walking_webguest38: that worked?
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07:48:12nanokwell.. rockbox charging from usb port stil doesn't work :(
07:48:23nanoki left it in for the night to be sure..
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07:51:34nanok(sansa e200)
07:51:47nanoksee you guys
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09:02:24markunpreglow, Llorean: I found the Datasheet of the TV out chip in the Gigabeat S a few days ago
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09:29:25GodEateranyone care to check my response here : http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14984.msg111972#msg111972 ?
09:30:11GodEaterI think I'm right - but not certain
09:30:30peturdoes rb->mp3info take a pointer to mp3entry?
09:31:02peturif so, then it is: rb->mp3info(id3, buf2);
09:31:34GodEatersuerly if you declare the struct like I did, you need to pass the address don't you ?
09:31:41LinusNyes
09:32:03peturno, you declared it as a pointer: struct mp3entry *id3
09:32:33peturoh wait
09:32:49peturyou changed declarations between those two
09:34:04GodEateryes
09:34:19GodEaterI would have thought his version would explode
09:34:37GodEatersince he never gets any memory for the struct
09:34:40GodEaternot that he pasted anyway
09:34:56peturcorrect...
09:35:29GodEaterand I assumed that was where his "cast" error was coming from too
09:35:51GodEatersince he declared it as a pointer originally, and then tried to pass it into the fuction with '*' on the front of it
09:36:28LinusNi replied in the thread
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09:37:51linuxstbShouldn't he be using get_metadata() rather than mp3info() (at least for swcodec) ?
09:39:14LinusNprobably
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09:43:47GodEaterand now that I look at his code again, he also has a call to set id3 to the return from audio_current_track() in his first post.
09:43:54GodEaterso perhaps my version isn't right either
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10:20:57bignoseafter putting the Rockbox MBR onto my iPod Mini, it no longer boots.
10:21:07bignoseMBR was downloaded from <URL:http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/mbr-mini2g-6gb.bin>
10:21:29bignosetransferred with 'dd if=mbr-mini2g-6gb.bin of=/dev/sda'
10:22:25bignoseonly shows the "folder and caution symbol" image on boot.
10:23:17bignose'ipodpatcher' worked one time, when the original Apple firmware was installed
10:23:27bignosebut now, when I run 'ipodpatcher', it reports "[ERR] Firmware partition doesn't contain Apple copyright, aborting."
10:23:40bignosehow can I continue from here?
10:23:41linuxstbWhy did you copy the MBR? i.e. what state was your ipod in before that?
10:24:07linuxstbipodpatcher's error message tells you the problem - the firmware partition no longer contains a valid firmware image.
10:24:28bignoselinuxstb: because the storage partition was HFS, and the manual insists that it must be FAT, linking to <URL:http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodConversionToFAT32>
10:24:47bignosethat page in turn instructs me to download and install the MBR image.
10:25:15linuxstbI know, I wrote it ;) Try this page - http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodManualRestore
10:26:46bignoselinuxstb: so what step was wrong?
10:26:58bignoselinuxstb: AFAICT, I've been following the installation instructions.
10:28:12pixelmaI don't know much about this but just asking the obvious - are you sure yours is a 2nd generation Mini with a 6GB drive?
10:28:20bignoseokay, I now have the file 'iPod_7.1.4.1.ipsw'. I can't tell if that's right for my 6GB iPod Mini.
10:28:47pixelmaok, ignore me :)
10:28:49bignosepixelma: it has the capacity on the back, I'm told that's what distinguishes a 2nd Gen from a 1st Gen. is that right?
10:28:56linuxstbThe download page says it's right, and I would believe it.
10:30:06linuxstbbignose: I don't know what went wrong, but the IpodManualRestore page will fix it.
10:30:15bignoselinuxstb: so, you asked why I replaced the MBR; I answered that the installation manual says I must. does that answer your question? or is the manual incorrect?
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10:31:22linuxstbbignose: I just wanted to know what state your ipod was in before you replaced the MBR. You were right to do so, and it _should_ have worked - if your ipod was in the expected state beforehand. You also needed to format the main partition as FAT32 - did you do that?
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10:32:01GodEaterNico_P: could you look at FS8469 please ?
10:32:28bignoselinuxstb: I ran 'mkfs.vfat /dev/sda3'
10:32:37linuxstbThat was the problem...
10:32:38bignoselinuxstb: should I have done something different?
10:32:52bignosecan I fix it without overwriting the firmware?
10:33:05linuxstbYou needed to unplug and reattach your ipod (so Linux re-read the new partition table), and then format /dev/sda2
10:33:33Nico_PGodEater: looks good
10:33:36bignose/dev/sda2 is shown by fdisk as "Apple_MDFW firmware", a 32MiB partition
10:34:13bignosethe IpodManualRestore page is worrying; it says I should write the firmware image to the *first* partition, but that's not the firmware partition.
10:34:23linuxstbThen you didn't write the MBR successfully (or the MBR that's been donated is incorrect). A correct DOS partition table on the ipod should have two partitions - sda1 is type 0 (empty) and sda2 is type 0xb (or maybe 0xc) - FAT32.
10:34:30bignosemy iPod partitions show in fdisk as:
10:34:38bignose/dev/sda1 Apple_partition_map partition map 62 @ 1 ( 31.0k) Partition map
10:34:42bignose/dev/sda2 Apple_MDFW firmware 65536 @ 63 ( 32.0M) Unknown
10:34:45bignose/dev/sda3 Apple_HFS disk 11934944 @ 65600 ( 5.7G) HFS
10:34:47GodEaterthe MBR has written then
10:34:51linuxstb^what I just said...
10:34:53GodEater*hasn't*
10:34:58bignoseso I don't believe the IpodManualRestore page when it tells me to write the firmware image to /dev/sda2
10:35:10bignoseerm, when it say to write firmware to /dev/sda1
10:35:19bignose"/dev/sda1 Apple_partition_map partition map 62 @ 1 ( 31.0k) Partition map
10:35:21linuxstbbignose: _please_ read what I just told you...
10:35:22bignose/dev/sda2 Apple_MDFW firmware 65536 @ 63 ( 32.0M) Unknown
10:35:25GodEaterbignose: stop worrying about the firmware, and redo the MBR again
10:35:26bignoselinuxstb: okay
10:35:28bignose/dev/sda3 Apple_HFS disk 11934944 @ 65600 ( 5.7G) HFS
10:35:32bignosewhoops
10:36:20bignoselinuxstb: re-do it from where? I wrote the MBR with 'dd if=mbr-mini2g-6gb.bin of=/dev/sda'
10:36:27GodEaterNico_P: worth commiting ?
10:36:40GodEaterbignose: yes - redo that step
10:36:49bignoseas the 'IpodConversionToFAT32' instructs
10:36:53GodEaterthen do "eject /dev/sda"
10:37:03Nico_PGodEater: yeah, I'll do that now
10:37:07GodEaterunplug it, and then plug it in again
10:37:11GodEaterNico_P: thanks ;)
10:37:20bignoseGodEater: unplug *before* reformatting the partition, or after?
10:37:28GodEaterbefore
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10:37:39bignosethe 'IpodConversionToFAT32' doesn't show that step that I can see.
10:37:45GodEaterotherwise linux won't re-read the partition table
10:37:50GodEaterbignose: then we'll update it so it does
10:37:58bignoseif it's necessary, can someone please be sure to update that page?
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10:38:32bignoseokay, I'll re-do that process inserting "unplug and re-plug ipod" before the reformat step.
10:38:47GodEaterdon't forget the "eject" command either
10:40:07bignoseeject? but I never mounted it.
10:40:27bignosejust ran 'dd' to the device, without doing a mount.
10:41:06GodEatereject != umount
10:41:15bignoseokay. steps performed now:
10:41:21GodEaterpage updated
10:41:39bignose- 'dd if=mbr_foo.bin of=/dev/sda'
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10:42:06bignose- 'eject /dev/sda'
10:42:23bignose- (ipod reboots, shows "caution/folder" image)
10:42:31bignose- unplug ipod, reconnect
10:42:34bignose- (ipod reboots, shows "caution/folder" image)
10:42:45bignose- 'fdisk /dev/sda'
10:43:11bignose- shows same three partitions, including FS type HFS for the large partition.
10:43:20bignoseno FAT partition in the table.
10:43:33GodEaterright - let me go look at the MBR you've downloaded
10:43:34bignoseis something wrong here? or do I ignore the partition table?
10:44:37GodEatersomething's wrong
10:44:50GodEatereither the dd command is failing, or the content of that MBR image you've downloaded is broken
10:45:32GodEaterlinuxstb: could you check it too ?
10:45:40GodEaterthe 2G mini 6GB mbr looks like junk to me
10:45:52bignoseokay.
10:46:07GodEaterbignose: bear with us - we'll see if we can find you a good one
10:46:23bignosethanks to all for the help, it's very encouraging
10:48:10bignosethe errors in the documentation and files are less encouraging, but at least you guys are being responsive about them :-)
10:48:10linuxstbbignose: You should probably create the partition table manually. The ipodlinux wiki has some instructions for that - http://ipodlinux.org/Restore_Without_Itunes
10:48:10GodEaterbignose: what errors in the documentation ? ;)
10:49:00GodEaterbignose: also, those mbr's are donated by owners of the hardware - the devs don't check them as a rule.
10:49:16bignose:-(
10:49:42bignoseperhaps, as a rule, they might −− to catch "that one looks like junk to me" type easy-to-detect errors.
10:50:21GodEaterbignose: they've got enough other things to do, as a rule
10:50:41linuxstbWe can't test everything, especially if no-one owns the relevant device - we're reliant on users like yourself to test things and report problems.
10:50:55GodEaterwhich you've now done, so thanks for that ;)
10:51:09bignoseokay, running 'sudo fdisk /dev/sda' doesn't show me what the page tells me to look for
10:51:33bignoseI don't see the "The number of cylinders for this disk is set to NNNN" messafge
10:51:45cool_walking_You shouldn't put sudo in the instructions as not all distros come with it.
10:52:00bignosecool_walking_: I put that in
10:52:31bignoseI mention it here to hopefully forestall "you need to run it as root" prompts in this channel :-)
10:52:33GodEatercool_walking_: also - those instructions aren't ours, they belong to the iPL guys.
10:52:56cool_walking_ah okay
10:53:23linuxstbbignose: Don't worry about that. Just use fdisk to create a partition table similar to the one listed for the 4GB mini2g. The first partition should be the same size as the 4GB mini, and then the second partition should just be all the remaining space (and obviously will be bigger than the 4GB...)
10:53:50bignosethe number of cylinders isn't important?
10:53:57linuxstbNo
10:54:02bignoseokay
10:54:04GodEaterbignose: the instructions say it's not ;)
10:54:26bignosethe instructions also say "remeber the underlined value" for that number-of-cylinders message
10:54:32*GodEater goes to a meeting
10:55:10bignoseI apologise for my trepidation, but I've trashed this ipod twice already trying to follow the install instructions.
10:55:35bignoseand I have no Apple software anywhere to restore things if it gets messed up.
10:56:11bignoseokay, here's the same problem again:
10:56:32bignosethe instructions don't talk about "delete the partition already listed as the firmware partition"
10:56:40bignosethey just say "delete partition 1"
10:57:05bignosebut in the 'fdisk' output I see, partition 1 is the "Apple_partition_map partition map"
10:57:16bignoseand the firmware partition is partition 2
10:57:24bignosewhich one should I be deleting and re-creating?
10:57:53bignose(for reference, I'm talking about the instructions at <URL: http://ipodlinux.org/Restore_Without_Itunes >)
11:00
11:06:52linuxstbbignose: I'm not sure what else I can say - you need to work out how to use fdisk to create a partition layout as I described.
11:07:53bignoseit turns out the fdisk I'm running is 'mac-fdisk'
11:08:12bignoseusing a different one, 'pmac-fdisk', shows me a different story
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11:10:04bignoseI see a partition 2, with the size of the data partition
11:10:14bignoseand a "free space" about 32 MB
11:10:44bignosethe instructions at <URL: http://ipodlinux.org/Restore_Without_Itunes > tell me to create partition 1, and "Set the partition type to Empty"
11:10:56bignosewhen I do that, I get the space shown as "Free space"
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11:16:53linuxstbWhat OS are you running?
11:17:39 Quit CaptainSquid83 ("Miranda IM!")
11:17:50bignoselinuxstb: Debian GNU/Linux
11:18:31bignosethe 'fdisk' I have show different output to 'cfdisk' and 'pmac-fdisk' :-(
11:18:53bignosethe latter two show my ipod has a partition table as you described earlier
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11:19:11bignose/dev/sda1 is about 32 MB, type 0 ("Free space")
11:19:23bignose/dev/sda2 is the remaining space, and is FAT32
11:20:09bignoseI'm now doing 'mkfs.vfat -F 32 /dev/sda2'
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11:21:13bignosenow 'eject /dev/sda', and reboot to disk mode
11:23:06linuxstbbignose: Sounds promising. I have to go now, so good luck.
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11:24:10GodEaterNico_P: yay - nice delta :)
11:24:29GodEaterwell, for the most part
11:24:37GodEaterI can't understand why the archos builds got bigger =/
11:25:10Nico_Pprobably because AA.c wasn't compiled on those and thy got one more public func
11:25:37bignosewell, I can't tell how successful that was, but the partition table remains the same at least
11:25:59GodEaterNico_P: they didn't have it in tree.c already ?
11:26:03bignoseI've formatted the data partition, copied the '.rockbox' directory to it
11:26:29bignosebut 'ipodpatcher' says "[ERR] No ipods found, aborting
11:26:29Nico_PGodEater: yes, but it was static
11:26:36GodEaterah of course!
11:26:41GodEatersilly me
11:26:46bignosethe ipod is reconnected in disk mode, but ipodpatcher can't see it.
11:27:07bignosewhat is ipodpatcher looking for, and what do I need to do to satisfy it?
11:28:01GodEaterbignose: did you dd the contents of the unzipped ipsw to the firmware partition yet ?
11:28:19bignoseGodEater: no, I was told not to worry about that. has that changeD?
11:28:29pixelmabignose: did you check if the apple firmware is up and running again?
11:28:46GodEaterbignose: who told you not to worry about it ?
11:28:55GodEateryou need it now you've formatted the disk right...
11:28:58bignoselinuxstb told me that.
11:29:24GodEaterI think he just meant "don't worry about until you've got the partitions laid out right"
11:29:25bignoseokay, so I should 'dd if=Firmware-7.2.6.1 of=/dev/sda1' yes?
11:29:33GodEaterbignose: yes
11:29:41bignosewhere /dev/sda1 is the 32MB "empty" partition I created
11:29:49GodEatercorrect
11:30:20bignoseokay. done that
11:30:24bignosenow 'pumount /dev/sda2'
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11:30:28bignosethen 'eject /dev/sda'
11:30:29GodEaterno leave it
11:30:35GodEaterjust run ipodpatcher again now
11:31:00bignoseokay. I haven't run the eject yet. I'll run ipodpatcher now.
11:31:18bignose"[ERR] No ipods found, aborting"
11:31:30GodEaterhmm
11:31:31GodEaterok
11:31:33GodEatereject it then
11:31:35pondlifeHow come the iPod Mini build got such a lovely green delta?
11:31:39GodEaterand unlpug it
11:31:47GodEaterand then see if it boots into the apple os
11:31:53GodEaterpondlife: I'm struggling to work that out too
11:31:59GodEaterI knew I'd get a positive on most of them
11:32:03GodEaterbut not THAT big ;)
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11:32:49pondlifeIt's the RAM measurement...
11:33:42GodEaterexplain...
11:33:48bignosesame result after 'eject /dev/sda', then re-plug the ipod, then run 'ipodpatcher' again: "[ERR] No ipods found, aborting"
11:34:05pondlifeNo idea why, just noticed it's the RAM, not the BIN measurement.
11:34:08pixelmapondlife: that's the delta it didn't get on 2008-01-13 23:03 - and IIRC they say it's alignment and those jumps are there since the new USB stack....
11:34:09GodEaterbignose: but did it boot into the apple os ?
11:34:16GodEaterpondlife: ah ok
11:34:24bignoseah, I didn't reboot, just re-plugged.
11:34:28bignoseshall reboot now.
11:34:39GodEaterpondlife: I also notice it was on of the few that didn't get a green from the language buffer resize
11:34:49pondlifeYep, as pixelma said
11:35:01GodEaterso she did
11:35:07bignoseGodEater: no, rebooting still gives the "caution/folder" image
11:35:07*GodEater adjusts his non-existent glassesd
11:35:20bignoseand same message from ipodpatcher
11:35:23GodEaterbignose: then the firmware write didnt' work
11:35:32bignoseokay.
11:35:37GodEaterand ipodpatcher will keep saying that until you've successfully written the firmware to it
11:35:54bignosethan I don't know what went wrong.
11:36:01pondlifeSo there's a pending big delta for the iPod Video still to appear..
11:36:32bignoseI wrote the firmware image (downloaded from the URL you led me to earlier)
11:36:34bignosewith 'sudo dd if=Firmware-7.2.6.1 of=/dev/sda1'
11:36:56bignosethen made sure to unmount and eject the device, before rebooting
11:37:10bignoseso what needs to be changed in that process?
11:38:48GodEaterbignose: I don't know - that's all you should have to do.
11:38:52GodEaterbignose: try doing the dd again
11:39:01GodEaterand then make sure you unplug and reboot the ipod again immediately
11:39:36GodEaterit should start doing a firmware update
11:39:44GodEaterat which point LEAVE IT ALONE UNTIL IT'S DONE
11:39:59bignoseGodEater: okay. 'sudo dd if=Firmware-7.2.6.1 of=/dev/sda1 && eject /dev/sda', then unplug, reboot, wait.
11:40:02GodEaterinteferring with it at that stage is the only known way to brick an ipod
11:40:03bignoseyes?
11:40:06GodEateryes
11:41:17bignoseno change. reboots to "caution/folder" image.
11:41:45GodEaterthen I'm afraid I'm stumped
11:42:00bignoseI should do the 'dd' while booted to disk mode, yes?
11:42:16GodEateryes
11:42:23bignoseokay. that's what I did.
11:42:31GodEaterit isn't possible to do it at any other time
11:42:44bignosecan I get my partition table and have it examined for problems?
11:42:58bignoseor can I describe it in more detail somehow?
11:43:39GodEaternope - I'm just completely out of ideas
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11:45:38bignoseI'll try <URL: http://download.rockbox.org/rbutil/linux/rbutilqt-v1.0.2.tar.bz2 >
11:45:41bignosegood or bad idea?
11:46:11GodEaterwon't help
11:46:19GodEateryou NEED the apple firmware on your ipod
11:46:23GodEaterand currently you don't
11:46:33bignosehm
11:46:45LinusNbignose: just to double check, how big is your disk?
11:46:57LinusNshow me the output from fdisk
11:47:11bignoseLinusN: the back of the case says "6 GB", and fdisk agrees
11:47:49LinusNgood, i just wanted to make sure that you partitioned the right disk - once a guy managed to repartition his system disk by mistake
11:48:05bignoseeep :-)
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11:53:16bignoseargh. do I need the 'seek=63' parameter when installing the Apple firmware image?
11:54:04bignoseno, apparently not, if I specify the partition number
11:54:19*bignose is utterly confused by disk layouts on Apple devices
11:54:45LinusNbignose: did you try http://www.felixbruns.de/iPod/firmware/
11:56:32bignoseLinusN: yes, that's where GodEater led me to. I downloaded 'Firmware-7.2.6.1' for my iPod Mini 2nd Gen 6GB
11:57:41bignosesorry, the file I downloaded was 'iPod_7.1.4.1.ipsw'
11:57:49bignosewhich expanded to 'Firmware-7.2.6.1'
11:58:27LinusNah good
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12:02:57homieloweWhen compiling the sim using apple-arm-darwin, it complains I don't have features.h, bits/errno.h , would a symlink to usr/include/bits/errno.h solve that, or am I just going in the wrong direction. http://pastebin.ca/859733
12:03:56bignoseLinusN: <URL: http://pastebin.ca/859734 >
12:04:09bignoseLinusN: that's the different outputs from 'fdisk' and 'pmac-fdisk'
12:04:18bignosewhich is why I'm not really sure what's going on with my partition table
12:05:31LinusNbignose: wow
12:06:03LinusNpmac-fdisk looks awfully wrong
12:06:27LinusNhomielowe: looks like you are missing an include path somewhere
12:06:37bignosereally? pmac-fdisk is the only one that actually agrees with <URL: http://ipodlinux.org/Restore_Without_Itunes >
12:07:16bignosethe 'fdisk' output doesn't match any of the rockbox or ipodlinux documentation I've been reading
12:07:41homieloweLinusN:Should I post my current makefile if that helps? http://pastebin.ca/859735
12:08:46LinusNbignose: well, according to your pasted output, it only has sda2
12:09:47bignoseLinusN: yes, that's the result when I set partition type 0 for sda1
12:10:00bignoseas instructed by <URL:http://ipodlinux.org/Restore_Without_Itunes>
12:10:06LinusNbignose: ah i see
12:11:06bignosewhat value should I be using where those instructions say "Now enter a value which creates a big enogh firmware partition."
12:11:35LinusN32mb
12:12:27bignoseokay, "+32M"
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12:14:40LinusNhomielowe: i don't know much about darwin, but i guess you would have to add -I/usr/include to GCCOPTS
12:15:06homieloweLinusN: let me try
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12:20:16homieloweLinusN; Seems to complain my machine isn't the target architecture. http://pastebin.ca/859788
12:20:23*homielowe will try another day
12:22:40LinusNhomielowe: ehum....
12:23:34LinusNhomielowe: wait a sec, "arm-apple-darwin"??????
12:24:29LinusNah of course
12:24:44homieloweI'm trying to build the sim for the ipod-touch/iphone, I've made a sim with the right dimensions that will compile on unix etc, I'm just having trouble compiling for the target
12:24:54LinusNwhere are the headers for you architecture then?
12:27:01homieloweI sort of have an idea what you mean , but I followed this tutorial, http://code.google.com/p/iphone-dev/wiki/Building ,
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12:32:35LinusNhomielowe: where did you install the developer sdk header files?
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12:36:34homieloweusr/local/arm-apple-darwin/include I think
12:37:26LinusN...which isn't in your include path according to your makefile
12:37:41*homielowe go's to the corner
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12:45:23simonrvnhello
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13:22:34picard_pwns_kirkis there any way to change the look of the status bar?
13:23:42Nico_Ppicard_pwns_kirk: not currently, but it should change in the relatively near future
13:24:03picard_pwns_kirkdo I have to build my own version?
13:25:17Nico_Pno, you can download binaries from http://build.rockbox.org/
13:25:27Nico_Punless you want to include patches, of course
13:25:56picard_pwns_kirkno, I mean, to get custom statusbar icons
13:26:13Nico_Pah, well there's no patch for it yet
13:27:13picard_pwns_kirkoh well
13:27:28picard_pwns_kirkthanks
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14:05:26bignoseNo joy with getting firmware onto my iPod Mini. Giving up for today.
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14:21:46preglowretailos gets 11:40 here, with buschel's patch i get 8:40
14:21:53preglownot bad, but still not there
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14:41:31amiconnpreglow: And with plain svn?
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14:43:39preglowamiconn: haven't tried, might later
14:43:45LambdaCalculus37Morning, guys!
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15:09:14markunwow, my gigabeat crashed in a very weird way :)
15:10:18markunI was trying to reproduce a crash from the bug tracker and my screen showed the OF bootloader image with very strange colours and the 'data abort' shown on top of it, but almost unreadable
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15:17:48LambdaCalculus37markun: Good morning!
15:17:56LambdaCalculus37What bug was it you were trying to reproduce?
15:18:21markunhi LambdaCalculus37! http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8445
15:18:51markunI can also reproduce it in the sim, but after my latest FreeBSD upgrade, gdb crashes when trying to debug the sim :(
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15:26:23LambdaCalculus37markun: I can try to reproduce the bug on my iPod right now if you wish.
15:28:42asnSorry if I'm turning this in a C discussion for tards, but I was checking out plugins to find a simple one and start understanding how "rockbox" "works", and I found something that I don't get in credits.c. It has a while statement like this: while (1) {, etc etc.
15:28:47asnWhat is while (1) ?
15:29:10LambdaCalculus37markun: Posted a comment to FS. Got a Data Abort.
15:29:39LambdaCalculus37"Data abort at 00052648 (0)"
15:30:28LambdaCalculus37Had to reset my iPod.
15:30:42asnoh it's an infinite loop. nvm
15:30:47markunyes :)
15:32:00LambdaCalculus37markun: What do you suppose it could be? Bad combination of settings, perhaps?
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15:33:53markunMaybe we are trying to read past the plugin buffer
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15:52:50LambdaCalculus37markun: Sounds like it.
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16:02:26Casainhohello RB people :-)
16:03:06CasainhoI would like to know what tools are used for debug on ARM...
16:03:08LambdaCalculus37Hello Casainho.
16:03:25Casainhotools when developing RB....
16:04:46Casainhobecause I don't know if doing the Free/Open hardware player, should use JTAG with GDB
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16:04:58Casainhoor serial port - RS232...
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16:10:46CasainhoBagder: how do you debug when you develop
16:16:06asnMoving on with the retarded C questions. credits.c is using the lcd_puts function. I checked plugin.h/plugins.c and I can't find the code for lcd_puts, I can only find function prototypes for it
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16:16:47linuxstbasn: It's defined in the lcd drivers - firmware/drivers/lcd-*.c
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16:26:09asnlinuxstb: So, credits.c includes plugins.c which in it's turn includes lcd.h, etc. etc. 'till something includes lcd-something.c. And that makes credits.c able to call the lcd_puts function?
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16:30:33linuxstbNot really. credits.c (like all plugins) access functions which are in the main rockbox binary (like lcd_puts) via the plugin API.
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16:35:06asnlinuxstb: and how does the compiler understand the functions in credits.c even tho only plugin.h and helper.h are included in it?
16:35:25asnplugin API eh? I'll check it out
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16:36:40linuxstbplugin.h includes lcd.h - which is where the function prototypes are.
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16:41:27asnlids: and since plugin.h includes lcd.h, does plugin.h _has_ to also have function prototypes of the things in lcd.h? Or well, why is there a: void (*lcd_puts)(int x, int y, const unsigned char *string); , in plugin.h?
16:42:35magenpiei had rb installed on e280...i just unzipped the current build, deleted the original rb folder and now won't boot into rb...says missing .mi4 but i see that file in the folder...
16:43:37magenpiesince i wasn't asked about overwrite i thought i should delete the orig folder...was i wrong?
16:46:05saratoga.rockbox is where rockbox is located
16:46:16pixelmathe folder you need is the .rockbox folder which contains everything, unzipping a new build should indeed overwrite the existing ones
16:46:30saratogaif it didn't ask you to overwrite that when you unziped, then it probably didn't extract to the right location
16:46:32magenpiethe current folder is named .rockbox(3) and i can't rename
16:46:49magenpiebut it doesn't...i end up with two folders
16:47:00saratogause a better zip program
16:47:17LambdaCalculus37magenpie: http://www.7-zip.org
16:47:19magenpiebetter zip? i'm in linux...
16:47:34magenpiei mean i can get another zip app
16:48:22magenpiewhat i did...i copied the zip file to the e280 folder and extracted
16:48:48saratogayou could just use unzip rockbox.zip -d . from inside the sansa
16:49:11*LambdaCalculus37 needs to be quicker with the keyboard :)
16:49:32magenpiei was inside the sansa but i right clicked and selected extract here...isn't that the same thing?
16:50:51LambdaCalculus37magenpie: What distro?
16:50:55magenpiedebian
16:51:21magenpiewait...i think i know what i did wrong
16:53:26magenpiei think i already had a couple of rb zip files..so new one got named rb(3)
16:53:32magenpiesorry
16:54:02LambdaCalculus37 magenpie: Ehh, don't worry about it. It was an honest mistake. :)
16:55:13magenpielol
17:00
17:01:01magenpiegot it
17:01:36 Join xator [0] (n=xirio@ppp-216-221.33-151.iol.it)
17:01:40xatorhttp://it.youtube.com/watch?v=fXWRL39XI2Y look this video
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17:03:46magenpiedarn...now the cassette theme looks different
17:04:04magenpieand the font is smaller
17:08:32LambdaCalculus37xator: Why the hell did you post that?
17:08:51magenpielooked kinda dumb to me...lol
17:09:27 Quit TMM ("Ex-Chat")
17:10:28LambdaCalculus37xator: If you're here to just spam the channel with crap, we're here to tell you that it's against the IRC guidelines to do that.
17:12:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:13:02GodEaterwho's Mr. Flyspray ?
17:13:10GodEater(i.e. the expert on it)
17:13:25 Quit petur ("time for a beer :)")
17:13:35 Part xator
17:14:51LambdaCalculus37GodEater: Good day to you!
17:14:57GodEaterafternoon squire
17:15:32LambdaCalculus37Isn't Zagor Mr. Flyspray?
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17:15:55GodEaterI was hoping one of the other Swedes would have a clue too =/
17:15:56jumpatrainthe monitor mode is awesome for overhearing conversations
17:15:57GodEaterand be here ;)
17:16:17jumpatrainwhat clue
17:16:39GodEaterI'm implementing an FS based issue tracker here, but for some reason, all new tasks are opened as "Closed" - which seems rather counter intuitive.
17:16:42GodEaterNot to mention wrong.
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17:17:51LambdaCalculus37That's unusual! Why's Flyspray acting like that?
17:18:54GodEaterno idea
17:18:59GodEaterI'm sure the RB doesn't
17:19:00GodEater:)
17:19:22GodEaterwhich is why I wanted to get hold of Zagor or someone else that knows it better than me
17:20:04amiconnjhMikeS: there?
17:21:36LambdaCalculus37Bagder: Ping!
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17:34:47GuySofthey all, if i want to install rockbox on an iaudio f2, what firmware/bootloader to use?
17:36:01pixelmanone, Rockbox only rund on the players listed on the frontpage
17:36:06pixelma*runs
17:36:38GuySoftare you sure? isnt there an unofficial way? i saw people talking about this in the fourms.. it works on simular devices
17:36:48GodEaterwe're positive
17:36:50GodEaterit won't work
17:37:54GuySoftGodEater, no bootloader hack for it in plan?
17:38:38GuySoftGodEater, its in the wikipedia page, should we correct this?
17:39:45GuySoftah wait, its talking about the telechips port
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17:45:02LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Good day to you, good sir!
17:45:11 Join aramil [0] (n=tony@athedsl-113253.home.otenet.gr)
17:45:17linuxstb'ello.
17:45:43saratogawhos the best person to talk to about the WPS code in rockbox?
17:45:44LambdaCalculus37GuySoft: Is this the device you're talking about? http://www.cowonglobal.com/product_wide/product_F2_feature.php
17:46:02LambdaCalculus37Because that is definitely not supported by Rockbox.
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17:48:05GuySoftLambdaCalculus37, yes.. for some strange reason people around here think you can, as long as you dont have firmware byond version 2.. not sure why.. i guess you are a more reliable source
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17:50:20GodEater saratoga, it's probably Nico_P I'd have thought
17:50:53GuySoftLambdaCalculus37, do you know anything about this device and linux in general? it seems to give problems with the charging there...
17:51:05LambdaCalculus37GuySoft: The front page at http://www.rockbox.org/ will always tell you what devices are supported.
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17:51:15LambdaCalculus37No, I don't own any Cowon devices. :(
17:51:30*LambdaCalculus37 wishes he got an iAUDIO X5 last summer when he saw them
17:51:45*idnar hugs his X5
17:52:22LambdaCalculus37GuySoft: These guys can help you out more for your F2: http://iaudiophile.net/news.php
17:52:24GuySoftidnar, how is the X5?
17:52:28*linuxstb hugs his F80 - 40 times better than the F2
17:52:39idnarGuySoft: well, I like it
17:52:46GuySoftLambdaCalculus37, ill search in their site right away
17:53:13idnarthe Cowon firmware isn't actually that bad, although I still prefer Rockbox
17:53:34idnarI wouldn't mind a bit more HDD space, but 30GB isn't too bad
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17:55:06GuySoftLambdaCalculus37, hell, their no-spam question is "what is the nearest star". i know its the sun, but i do know most people tend to fall for that question, and say something like alfa centouri
17:55:42GuySoftgtg, bye
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17:58:28preglowbattery_bench is only supposed to write lines to log when the disk spins up, yea?
17:58:50LambdaCalculus37preglow: Yeah, IIRC that's what the documentation on the wiki states.
17:59:11preglowon nano it writes all the bloody time
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17:59:32preglowseveral times per minute is normal
17:59:38LambdaCalculus37preglow: On my c240 it didn't write anything!
17:59:55LambdaCalculus37So my battery bench from yesterday was for nothing. >:-(
18:00
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18:00:40preglowwell, do the sansa ata drivers properly emulate spinup/down?
18:00:55pixelmanope
18:01:20LambdaCalculus37That explains it.
18:02:30pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SandiskE200BatteryMeasurements applies to the c200 as well
18:04:10LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Yes, those measurements are what I got. My c240 lasted over 10 hours.
18:04:37LambdaCalculus37I tested using a playlist of 34 MP3s at 220kbps VBR.
18:05:13pixelmaI meant the "patching battery_bench" part (or "hacking") :)
18:05:52LambdaCalculus37Oh.. right.... heh heh!
18:05:59*LambdaCalculus37 feels a bit sheepish now
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18:16:49Nico_Psaratoga: what do you want to know?
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18:49:26amiconnpreglow: battery_bench collects data points in memory whenever voltage changes. It writes them out to disk whenever it detects a spinup
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18:50:25amiconnThe memory buffer can take up to 1000 entries. If it overflows before a spinup is detected, it rolls the entries, and remembers how many entries are dropped
18:51:13preglowstill, i wonder why battery_bench finds the disk spinned up so much
18:51:22amiconnSo the sansa flash driver needs to learn how to emulate spinups. The Ondio driver does this correctly, and so battery_bench works
18:51:24preglowseveral times a minute is a bit much
18:51:28amiconn?
18:51:34preglowon nano
18:51:41amiconnIt collects entries several times perminute
18:51:50amiconnThat doesn't mean it writes that often
18:51:55preglowwell, on nano it does
18:52:01amiconnHow do you know?
18:52:06preglowbecause i read the log?
18:52:13preglowforget me
18:52:28amiconnThe log doesn't show that info...
18:52:34preglowyes, yes, forget i spoke
18:53:00preglowsomething needs to be wrong on the nano ata front, though
18:53:02preglowit's so slow...
18:53:15preglowdatabase scanning is eXCEEDINGLY slow
18:53:27amiconnbattery_bench will probably log a good deal more entries since we went from centivolts to millivolts for battery voltage
18:53:59preglowtest_disk is just plain depressing
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18:54:27preglow1 files/s delete
18:54:29preglowwee
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18:56:55amiconnjhMikeS: ping...
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19:00
19:03:45cagnuleinhi!
19:03:49cagnuleinrockbox r0x!
19:04:34Tuplanollayeah, it does!
19:05:03iamben_its ok
19:05:06 Nick iamben_ is now known as iamben (n=ben@adsl-71-144-122-15.dsl.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net)
19:05:56cagnulein^^
19:11:45saratogaNico_P: still around?
19:11:50Nico_Pyes
19:12:23strawsberydamn
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19:12:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:14:06saratogathe default WPS people want to have a unifont version and a normal version for Western langauges
19:14:43saratogai was going to put in two versions of the WPS, but I do not want to duplicate all the bmps
19:15:06saratogais there some way to make two themes share the same bitmaps but have different .wps files loaded?
19:15:29saratogai couldn't see anyway to do it from the build scripts but i don't know anything about how rockbox handles things after compile time
19:18:21asnWhat's the purpose of many lcd-*.c in firmware/drivers? For different "monitor" sizes?
19:19:50Domonokyasn: no for the different lcds, different lcds need different ways to access them..
19:20:24asnWoah
19:20:27asnThanks
19:20:39asnand which lcd-* file is corresponding to the iPod?
19:20:58Domonokywhich ipod ? :-)
19:21:20asnDomonoky: 5G Video
19:22:13Domonokyah, now i see which lcd- files you mean, for color this is lcd-16bit.c
19:22:22amiconnThe various lcd-*.c files in firmware/drivers/ are for the different pixel formats
19:23:22Nico_Psaratoga: it requires some (rather small) changes in the loading code
19:23:24amiconnThe device specific code is in firmware/target/<platform>/<manufacturer>[/<target>]/lcd-*.c and lcd-as-*:S
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19:31:05asnamiconn: that's confusing. Is there a document describing it or something? For example, if I want to lcd_puts something in my iPod 5G which lcd-*.c file will it use? The one in /firmware/target/arm/blabla or the one in /firmware/drivers ?
19:31:08saratogaNico_P: do you think thats the best way forward?
19:31:36saratogaor is it too messy?
19:31:38preglowcould we replace the default wps while we're at it? :>
19:32:12Nico_Pit does makes sense, yeah. We just need to come up with a convention (something like "cabbie.something.wps", and we load bitmaps in the "cabbie" dir)
19:32:24saratogapreglow: thats my goal as soon as I get cabbie into SVN
19:32:46Nico_Pis it ready for prime time?
19:32:47preglowwhat is this cabbie you're speaking of
19:33:15saratogaNico_P: name.unifont.wps would be fine by me
19:33:23saratogapreglow: the default wps thing
19:33:59preglowhrm
19:34:07asnamiconn: i'll go take a quick shower .brb
19:34:16preglowdislike the colour scheme :/
19:34:25preglowbut at least it's not orange and blue, heh
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19:35:37*amiconn would prefer orange and blue
19:36:13amiconnNot that I would ever use a wps loading such a load of bmps. The bmp strip idea is still unimplemented :\
19:37:11preglowa pity
19:37:34preglowblack and gold isn't the prettiest combo ever, though
19:37:56preglowbut like i said, i'm pretty much for anything that's not the current default
19:39:07Nico_PI really don't link the gigabeat version on the wiki
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19:40:12saratogaany idea where i can find a "mix12" font file in bdf format?
19:40:19pixelmaI still don't like the font that they chose such a lightweight font
19:40:34pixelmaweird sentence
19:41:15Nico_PI agree with you, and I think the gigabeat version's font is not only too thin but also too big
19:41:24Nico_Pand there is too much information on the screen
19:41:34saratogaoh got it
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19:41:38pixelmawhat too much information?
19:41:44*amiconn is actually missing some information in that cabbie wps
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19:42:01Nico_Pwell actually what I find really out of place is the date and time
19:42:12pixelmaIMO the only reason it was easily portable to other screens is that it doesn't show much information...
19:42:41Nico_Psome people prefer simplistic WPS, that's also a matter of tatse
19:42:45Nico_Ptaste*
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19:43:53Nico_Pthe gigabeat version is the *only* one with the date and time (placed like that), and I think it needs to go elsewhere
19:44:40crzyboysterHello!
19:45:25crzyboyster(wow that sounded dumb)
19:46:09crzyboysterI think that the unifont version can be done away with if needed.
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19:46:35crzyboysterAs long as we put links for it on the "extras" page or somewhere else really obvious for users
19:49:05Nico_PGodEater: I probably already asked that, but do you use AA?
19:49:08 Quit desowin ()
19:49:17saratogai wish we had more compact fonts, the mix12 alone is 800KB zipped
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19:50:44saratogacrzyboyster: I was just asking Nico about chaging the WPS parser to allow us to more easily include unifont
19:51:15saratogahe thinks its possible, but on the other hand i kind of like the idea of making it a seperate download because it will be rather large for most people to download, particularly if they don't need it
19:51:24saratogathough i don't know how good the coverage is in our other fonts
19:52:19Nico_Psaratoga: rasher.dk/rockbox/fontstats/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/fontstats/
19:52:32BigBambiNico_P: I think the cabbie2 gigabeat version uses too small a font :)
19:52:45saratogaNico_P: I saw that but I'm not sure how many of those sets are important
19:53:09Nico_PBigBambi: seriously? I think it's far too high
19:53:31BigBambiI swapped it out for ter16b and much prefer it
19:53:41BigBambiRegardless of height it is definately too thin
19:53:46Nico_Pindeed
19:54:04BigBambiBut anyway, it is so much better than the current default lets just do it
19:54:06 Quit idnar (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:54:28BigBambiI doubt most people here would use it anyway, but as a default the current makes us look laughable
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19:56:42pixelmasoap: regarding your forum question - I *think* it does
19:57:00saratogai was kind of hoping at least 1 or 2 people would try out the changes
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19:57:49pixelmasoap: just want to draw attention to it here too ;)
19:58:06Ebertis there a reset button for the Gigabeat?
19:58:11markunsaratoga: the coverage in the 9+18x18 font is quite ok I think
19:58:18markunEbert: only the battery switch
19:58:23BigBambiEbert: There is a batery switch on the bottom
19:58:27BigBambi*battery
19:58:37saratogamarkun: which of course the default theme doesn't want to use :(
19:58:39Eberthm, well i just unplugged the battery, same thing
19:58:46markunsaratoga: why not?
19:58:54saratogathey picked other fonts
19:58:55crzyboysterI'm back folks! I think that the cabbie default theme is great as it is and it would definetely be a better idea to make the unifont version a seperate download
19:58:58saratogathough you can change it
19:59:00BigBambiEbert: It is much easier to use the external switch than open it and unplug it
19:59:02Ebertmy Grandfather swiped the player off a table, and now the backlight doesn't work :(
19:59:13Ebertpopped it open when it hit the floor
19:59:17BigBambioops
19:59:22crzyboysterAnd another thing: When are viewports planned to be committed?
19:59:25LambdaCalculus37Ebert: That may be something that unplugging the battery may not fix alone.
19:59:32Ebertanyone know which cable does backlighting?
19:59:53Ebertno, i know the cable's loose, i got it to come on at one point. it froze, so i had to turn it off
19:59:59toffe82Ebert: on the top right under the screen
20:00
20:00:21Ebertthe big ribbon?
20:00:21toffe82small flat cable with 3 or 4 contact
20:00:30toffe82the small one
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20:00:44toffe82on the left sorry :)
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20:01:13Ebertah, ok
20:01:14*LambdaCalculus37 gives toffe82 some coffee to help cure the brain farts
20:01:27 Quit aramil (Connection timed out)
20:01:40toffe82thank you ;)
20:02:09toffe82Ebert: you have to lift the black part
20:02:29saratogaanyone looked at the patch to set a default theme recently?
20:02:43LambdaCalculus37Cabbie 2.0 on my iPod video uses Helv10 for a font, but some Japanese katakana and kanji characters aren't displaying correctly in my tags.
20:03:11LambdaCalculus37Anybody have a good recommendation for a different font to use? (Which isn't Unifont :P)
20:03:12crzyboysterLambdaCalculus37: I think that the ipod video version should be using helvR12
20:03:32crzyboyster*I think so atleast*
20:03:46LambdaCalculus37crzyboyster: Oops... you're right.
20:04:01 Quit parafin (Remote closed the connection)
20:04:29crzyboysterAny idea when viewports will be committed?
20:04:46crzyboysterWe can commit this version as is and then optimize it for viewports when its added
20:04:57scorche|wwe dont give timelines...
20:05:03saratogalinuxstb: i'm looking at your patch for changeing the default wps but i don't really understand what it does
20:05:05 Quit tvelocity (Connection timed out)
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20:05:40crzyboystersigh... I know. Here's a better question: Is the viewports patch ready to commit and nearly finished?
20:05:55saratogawhy does it need the default font hard coded? can't it read it out of the WPSLIST file like everything else does?
20:06:09scorche|wif it was ready to be committed, wouldnt it *be* committed?
20:06:22LambdaCalculus37Aren't parts of it already in SVN already?
20:06:37crzyboysterI was wondering about the WPS part of it...
20:06:43LambdaCalculus37Why'd I type "already" twice?
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20:07:46BigBambiLambdaCalculus37: Because you are so keen?
20:07:48crzyboysterI don't know... :P
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20:09:16LambdaCalculus37BigBambi: :P
20:09:26JdGordon|wsaratoga: the settings doesnt have a single "theme" filename setting... so everything that needs to be set in the theme config needs to be hardcoded
20:09:36 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
20:10:02*BigBambi goes to get more beer
20:10:12BigBambiOops, that was meant for -community :)
20:10:35JdGordon|wgreat.. now your gonna send the chan off topic fior the next 2 hours!
20:10:48LambdaCalculus37Methinks BigBambi needs coffee for curing brain farts. :)
20:11:19BigBambidésolé
20:11:34scorche|wJdGordon|w: hrm?...beer is very on-topic
20:11:59LambdaCalculus37Yes... beer and coding go hand-in-hand. :)
20:12:57LambdaCalculus37Who do I speak to about the NSF codec?
20:13:09JdGordon|wscorche|w: yeah, I was going to say tangent but off topic came out instead :p
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20:14:26pixelmasaratoga: it would at least need to be included in the rockbox.zip I think
20:15:55LambdaCalculus37There have been some strange behavior problems with the NSF codec as of late.
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20:18:48Ebertomg its impossible to get this ribbon back in!
20:22:11bertrikEbert: if the connector has two parts, maybe you can slide one part past the other a few mm, then put back the ribbon and slide it back
20:23:50amiconnrockbeer...
20:23:57BigBambimmmmmm
20:24:13pixelmabeerbox ? ;)
20:24:20BigBambibeerbeer?
20:24:22Ebertnah bertrik, the connector is 1 little ribbon, connection is on the main pcboard
20:24:40Ebertany other hints?
20:25:46bertrikNo, sorry. Don't try stuff like that when you had beer or coffee
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20:26:11scorche|wbag of beer?
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20:28:10LambdaCalculus37Did someone say beer? ;)
20:28:36LambdaCalculus37Mmmm.... beeeeer...
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20:29:15*scorche|w expects petur and preglow to come back with multiple highlights for "beer"
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20:29:21*petur had enough chimay for the night ;)
20:29:40scorche|wwhich color?
20:29:40LambdaCalculus37I dare someone to make a Beer WPS for Rockbox. :)
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20:30:02peturscorche|w: the white one (tripel)
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20:30:24scorche|wah...i never got a chance to try that one
20:30:39*LambdaCalculus37 prefers Red (Première)
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20:33:57saratogaare the builds on the site done with build zip or build fullzip?
20:34:08toffe82Ebert: ydid you lift the black part ?
20:34:38Ebertoh, what do you mean toffe82 on the connector?
20:34:43Ebertwhere the ribbon goes? how do you lift it
20:34:59 Quit ompaul (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:35:25toffe82from the opposite side of the cable, you lift the black part with your nail or a small screw driver
20:36:02amiconnsaratoga: zip, of course
20:36:54saratogaamiconn: where does the font come from then?
20:36:59pixelmafullzip includes the fonts
20:37:00saratogathe first time you install?
20:37:01JdGordon|wfontszip
20:37:19pixelmathe default font is built in
20:37:34saratogabuilt in how?
20:37:43amiconnIt's the system font
20:37:58JdGordon|wconverted to c and compiled in
20:38:15saratogaoh
20:39:00amiconnsaratoga: The system font is needed e.g. if there's nothing but the binary. How else could it display error messages?
20:39:09saratogaso when i commit cabbie, people shouldn't get fonts unless they run fullzip?
20:39:32amiconnWe might need a mechanism to include *certain* fonts with 'make zip'
20:39:59JdGordon|wsaratoga: your not plkaning on diong that just yet are you?
20:40:10JdGordon|wplanning*
20:40:14amiconnThat is, *if* we want to make a theme the default which doesn't use the system font
20:41:48BigBambiIMO, of course we do
20:41:51saratogawell i'd like to commit cabbie now, but no, i'm not ready to make it default
20:42:07saratogai would like to get it into svn though so everyone can make sure its working right
20:42:16saratogaon various targets
20:44:27JdGordon|wok
20:44:38JdGordon|was long as its not made default _just yet_
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20:47:20LambdaCalculus37saratoga: I'm for getting Cabbie commited.
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20:49:40*amiconn wouldn't like any graphical intensive wps to become the default with current svn wps code
20:50:36amiconnChoosing iCatcher (instead of rockbox_default) on my 2nd Gen adds 3 seconds to boot time, which already isn't that great
20:50:45*Nico_P remembers people telling him bmptar didn't speed up loading time
20:50:49amiconn(11.6 sec -> 14.6 sec)
20:51:11BigBambiamiconn: But a one time change would remove that for you, and a new default wps would look much better for everyone else
20:51:20amiconnNico_P: No, but a bmp strip feature for related gfx probably would (volume, battery state, codecs...)
20:51:30soapamiconn, thank you for your quick reply to my forum question. I don't know if you saw my follow up or not - if not I can repeat it here.
20:52:30saratogawell should i change the build script to always copy the cabbie font ?
20:52:39Nico_Pamiconn: I'm willing to review the patches, but Im' not convinced it would make much of a difference... there still is data to load from the disk, whereas with rockbox_default there is *none*. It's an unfair comparison
20:52:52saratogacould just add a string to the -f option with the font name and make it copy that over
20:52:58amiconnIt would at the same time help saving disk space (not that important on hdd, but at least interesting on flash targets), and unzip time on various targets
20:53:01Nico_Pamiconn: compare a WPS with two bitmaps with a graphical intensive one, and then I might be convinced
20:53:55amiconnUnzipping lots of small files onto target is a pita on Ondio, H10, and iPod Video (diskmode, not OF) at thea least
20:54:11amiconnIs there such a wps in svn?
20:54:14saratogayes!
20:54:18*amiconn checks the available ones
20:54:20Nico_Pthat I agree with. but the load time argument doesn't stand IMHO
20:54:23saratogai have working with all the tiny files in the themes
20:54:37saratogait makes unzipping slow and my SFTP client always chokes on rockbox
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20:55:38Nico_PI liked the bmptar idea quite a lot. at the time it was deemed unnecessary because it brought no apparent speed gain
20:55:53Nico_Ploading speed, that is
20:56:54saratogaso if we made cabbie the default theme, would the font be compiled into the rockbox source or would it just be loaded at run time?
20:57:07*linuxstb would also like to see a bitmap strip feature implemented
20:57:29linuxstbsaratoga: It would be loaded at runtime
20:57:30Nico_PI agree with that too
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20:58:37pixelmasoap: how do you tell that the disk was hit - looking at Febs' battery_bench.txt I don't see any large gaps
20:58:39linuxstbHow many .bmps does cabbie use?
20:58:39pixelma?
20:59:06pixelmalinuxstb: not as much as iCatcher I think
20:59:15*amiconn found that he can test with an svn wps
20:59:16Casainholinuxstb: hello :-) - can you please tell me how do you do debug?
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20:59:36amiconnmarquee has just 2 BMPs, zezayer even has just one
20:59:36JdGordon|wNico_P: I have a patch on the tracker to replace the current icon code to be more flexible, I dont think it will take much work to get it to load any size icon strips to a buffer you choose.. if you want to play with it :D
21:00
21:00:28Nico_PJdGordon|w: I'd like to. which task is it?
21:00:41soappixelma, using the Measurements per Disk Activity number.
21:00:52 Quit ol_schoola ()
21:01:12soapIf the disk was being hit every time the battery voltage changed, shouldn't the M/DA number always be 1?
21:01:18JdGordon|wNico_P: 8133
21:01:20Nico_Plinuxstb: I don't remember, has there been some kind of consensus about whether to use FS #7345 or FS #7289 as base?
21:01:31linuxstbCasainho: It depends what I'm writing. For very low-level things (which I assume you're interested in), I would just write info to the screen, often in a bootloader build. But I don't do that much low-level coding. For high-level code, the UI sim works well. For other code, I just try and get it right first time...
21:01:36Nico_PJdGordon|thanks
21:01:38amiconnNico_P: marquee adds just 0.5 secs of load time, instead the 3 secs of iCatcher (which consists of ~50 BMPs)
21:02:13Nico_Pamiconn: ok, now I'm convinced
21:02:28amiconnResults may vary depending on how scattered the bitmaps are on disk, but fragmentation *within* a file is not an issue with any of the involved files
21:02:35Casainholinuxstb: what about GNU Debuger? I saw a lot of information about it for ARMs....
21:02:49amiconn(all involved files fit into a single cluster)
21:02:50soapNow I also want to know if cool_walking was using my build or his own. His patch v10 battery bench is here: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14904.0;attach=2497
21:03:22*amiconn tries some more themes
21:03:27Casainholinuxstb: okok, I assume that terminal, RS232 is ok then :-)
21:03:30linuxstbCasainho: I never use it.
21:03:34Nico_Pamiconn: what kind of gain can we realistically expect from grouping bitmap files together?
21:03:46soapand on that one you can clearly see the battery_bench buffer is /only/ being written to disk every 33 minutes - the length you would expect from his buffer size and playlist bitrate
21:04:48amiconnNico_P: Halving load time might be realistic, depending on how much the number of BMPs will be reduced
21:04:56Casainholinuxstb: okok, I think I understand now, for rockbox code as application, use UI sim and for low level drivers, etc, terminal or other things. Okok, thank yout!! :-) :-)
21:05:22Casainholinuxstb: I will write that on TWiki page, as a tools for debug :-)
21:05:44Nico_Pamiconn: I think I'll try to sync the bmptar patch first.
21:06:07 Quit bertrik ("bye")
21:06:13*JdGordon|w isnt so sure how useful strip bmps will be for wps.... it forces all the bmps in the strip to be the same dimensions... could add up to a fair bit of wasted pixels
21:06:38amiconnJdGordon|w: Huh? why?
21:06:57amiconnThe strip is meant for BMPs which have identical dimensions only...
21:07:06asnIn credits.c there is an #include "credits.raw", that generates the list of names from docs/CREDITS. But how does it work? From what I see there is no credits.raw in the rockbox directory.
21:07:14amiconnI'm not talking about a single bmp for everything in the wps
21:07:53amiconnasn: credits.raw is created from docs/CREDITS at compile time, see the Makefile ...
21:08:13JdGordon|wyeah, I know... but as it is now, all the icons on the screen can be fit exactly to the size thats needed
21:08:30JdGordon|wwith the strip you lose some flexibility if you want to use them
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21:09:08pixelmasoap: ah hmm, the M/DA. No idea then...
21:09:21amiconnsoap: What target was that?
21:09:38soapa fifth generation
21:10:16amiconnThen he just used an svn battery_bench
21:10:46soapFebs, is your battery bench from my build or from a personal build?
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21:13:18pixelmaJdGordon|w: that's more of a rare case I'd think and I guess the way you can use bitmaps now won't be removed
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21:15:21amiconnNico_P: Some more numbers that show that the results for iCatcher and marquee aren't a coincidence (load times in seconds [bmps]): zezayer 0.2 [1], DancePuffDuo 2.9 [48], Rockboxed 2.8 [23]
21:15:46amiconnThat shows that load time increases with the number of bmp files, but not in a linear fashion
21:15:50pixelmabtw. I have another question regarding bitmap loading - if I would use the same bitmap but at different position (like e.g. the LED theme that's in the wiki could do) I would need to give them all different "IDs" - but does the wps system really load the file multiple times?
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21:17:07amiconnThe first files are the worst (but keep in mind that *all* wps'es apart from built-in always have one additional file to load - the .wps file itself
21:17:24Nico_Ppixelma: yes, there is no check for duplicates
21:18:00asnamiconn: and what does the ut8seek function do? Where is it's code stored?
21:18:30Nico_Pamiconn: yeah, that's why I expected a smaller difference between zezeyer and iCatcher
21:18:40saratogashould i make the build script copy all fonts used by installed themes, or just the one for cabbie?
21:20:47Nico_PI'd say all
21:21:57amiconnI'd say that as soon as we decide on an on-disk default theme, all other themes should only be part of 'fullzip'
21:22:07amiconn...as well as the other fonts
21:22:50asnWhat does the ut8seek function do? Where is it's code stored?
21:25:29peturecho echo
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21:26:38asnhihi
21:26:54*linuxstb introduces asn to grep
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21:30:43pixelmaNico_P: I'd hope there could be a more clever solution one day - maybe having a(nother) tag to load the bitmap and specify the position in a(nother) display tag?
21:31:34Nico_Ppixelma: isn't that basically what FS #7289 does?
21:31:35pixelmamaybe that's what a bitmap strip would need anyway (?)
21:32:09Nico_Plinuxstb: who needs grep when there is cscope/ctags? :)
21:34:21pixelmaNico_P: IIUC this patch does something else - you specify what part of the bitmap strip should be used. I only meant the case of multiple displaying of one (complete) bitmap at different positions in the WPS
21:35:57linuxstbMaybe now (prior to WPS viewports) is the time to rethink wps bitmap handling completely...
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21:39:01soapbuschel - you see the thread (I'm sure). Sorry to F$%k your testers.
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21:40:22Nico_Plinuxstb: what kind of changes do you have in mind?
21:42:47linuxstbNico_P: I'm not sure... pixelma's suggestion of being able to reuse images is one. The current code also (IIUC) displays all images together after updating the text. Is that necessary?
21:43:30Nico_Pwith viewports it might not be
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21:44:08linuxstbThat's what I mean. Plus of course, the idea of bitmap strips.
21:54:31LambdaCalculus37Leaving now... bye, everyone!
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21:55:50Nico_Plinuxstb: in your current patch bitmaps are independant of viewports, aren't they?
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21:56:23Febssoap-
21:56:24linuxstbYes. Although album-art seems to not be ;)
21:56:47soapyes Febs?
21:56:55Febsmy battery bench is from my own personal build. The only difference from SVN was that I applied v12 of the power management patch.
21:56:59Nico_Pdoes it make sense to bind a bitmap to a vp?
21:57:15soapcrap - well, that settles that. Thanks Febs.
21:59:16linuxstbNico_P: It's logical to, but I can't think of any practical reason to...
21:59:54saratogarockbox doesn't seem to work with the .freedesktop.org bdf fonts
22:00
22:00:02saratogado i need to process them somehow before using them?
22:00:34linuxstbAnd I've just remembered something else I didn't like about bitmaps - a conditional which only displays bitmaps takes up a line of text (which is cleared when the bitmaps are displayed).
22:00:39saratogaright now the script just gives me an "error: EOF on file" message when trying to process them
22:01:41Nico_Plinuxstb: yes, I should really solve that
22:02:42Nico_Pthe problem with bitmaps is that it's (currently) not possible to know whether they have been erased by a line or not
22:02:43pixelmayou can specify different foreground/background colours for viewports? So there would be one reason to bind them to one viewport (thinking of mono bitmaps or the magic cyan colour), no?
22:02:51linuxstbNico_P: I'm not sure if it's something to "fix", rather than redesign...
22:03:34Nico_Plinuxstb: then it's not the bitmap handling that needs redesigning, but pretty much the whole wps rendering code
22:03:43linuxstbYes ;)
22:04:20linuxstbOr maybe we just need to make bitmaps even more independent of text lines.
22:05:01linuxstbi.e. force the wps author to contrain all text to viewports, so text will never overwrite bitmaps.
22:05:40Nico_Pisn't the asumption that bitmaps and viewports won't overlap a it far-fetched?
22:06:35linuxstbDo you have an example WPS where that assumption doesn't hold?
22:08:52Nico_Phmm I can't think of any example
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22:11:14Nico_Pdo you have a basic idea of how the rendering would work?
22:11:45Nico_Pmeh, I really need to look at the wps-vp patch before asking questions
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22:14:58PaulJamlinuxstb: concerning images overlapping text: i sometimes use images (loaded with %x) as mask for text, would this still be possible?
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22:16:34linuxstbWhy do you do that? (as opposed to using conditionals to display/not display text) ?
22:18:19PaulJamlinuxstb: here is an example where i use this to make the peakmeter look a little bit nicer (the left screendump): http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8434/pjiceady4.gif
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22:23:46linuxstbPaulJam: I'm not understanding...
22:29:04PaulJami though you said that it shouldn't be possible that images are shown wherea viewport is, but in the wps i put an image over the peakmeter (which behaves as far as i understand basically like text) so that only the parts where the image is pink the peakmeter shows through.
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22:48:38linuxstbPaulJam: OK, I understand now. So are you happy with how bitmaps are currently handled in Rockbox?
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22:49:03linuxstbI mean in the WPS...
22:50:44PaulJami haven't had problems yet (except for the limited number).
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23:13:06Nico_Phmm the backdrop can't really be loaded from a tar file
23:15:20Nico_Pamiconn: do you want to test loading the WPS bitmaps from a tar file?
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23:18:59trans25wow..so many people
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23:32:49jhMikeSamiconn: here now
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23:46:24CasainhoI worte some good information about RockboxPlayer: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPlayerV1
23:46:32CasainhoBagder: are yo uthere?
23:46:40Bagderi am
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23:47:43 Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection)
23:48:04CasainhoBagder: I remember you asking about other board, after the main dev board... you can see now the blocs diagram :-) - I also already defined how many wires will be connected fro main dev board to LCD module
23:48:16Bagderyeps, I noticed
23:48:19Bagderlooks fine
23:48:31CasainhoI also would like know how is USB code on RB?
23:48:36Casainho:-)
23:49:19Casainhoit's very simple the hardware, will be just the first version - I also wrote the objectives for this 1 version...
23:52:25Casainhofor USB code on RB, I mean a USB stack(I think) as in Sansa...
23:53:48 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
23:58:47CasainhoI will go to sleep :-) bye bye
23:58:50 Quit Casainho ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007100814]")

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