#rockbox 2008-01-27

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#rockbox log for 2008-01-27

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00:16:08	Lopin13	You guys are still having problems reverse engineering the Creative Zen Vision M, right?
00:16:12		Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
00:19:05	Nico_P	some progress has been made but no code runs yet
00:19:32	Lopin13	Well... I have one that runs with a busted screen...
00:19:40	Lopin13	Thinking about donating it to the cause...
00:20:23	Nico_P	for that you should go to the dedicated thread in the forums
00:20:54	Lopin13	Okay... I didn't know where to go... Thanks! ^.^
00:21:04	Nico_P	"new ports" section
00:21:16	Lopin13	?
00:21:35	Lopin13	Why new ports?
00:21:42	BigBambi	Because it is a new port?
00:22:13	Lopin13	Well...
00:22:15	Lopin13	Maybe...
00:22:19	BigBambi	It is
00:22:36	BigBambi	Rockbox does not run on it, therefore an attempt to port rockbox to it is a new port
00:22:46	Lopin13	Okay...
00:22:50	Lopin13	I think I get it..
00:22:52	BigBambi	What else is it?
00:23:23	Lopin13	I don't know... That's why I came here... I'm trying to find a good home for my mp3 player...
00:23:37	BigBambi	Trust me, it is a new port
00:23:39	Lopin13	To see if it could help you guys get a port sooner...
00:23:46	Lopin13	Okay... I believe you... ^.^
00:23:47	BigBambi	And help is appreciated :)
00:24:32	Lopin13	I'm not very good with the coding, and definitely not good with the hardware, but I'm not going to be able to use it any more, so if one of your developers could use it, then I'm all for it...
00:24:43	Lopin13	It wouldn't have died in vain...
00:25:19	BigBambi	There are some guys working on a new port of rockbox to the Zen Vision M, and it is they who would likely benefit from your kind offer. All their efforts are currently documented in the Zen Vision M thread in the New Ports forum, so if you post there asking if they would like it/if it would help, then they will be able to let you know :)
00:25:50	Lopin13	Okay... Thanks for the info! ^.^
00:25:57	Lopin13	I'll head over there now...
00:26:03	BigBambi	Cheers :)
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01:01:21		Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
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01:06:22	Benjg	hi all
01:06:27		Nick feisar_ is now known as feisar (i=jljhook@noppakerho.com)
01:06:32	Benjg	Can someone help me out?
01:06:46	BigBambi	Only if you ask a question
01:06:51	Benjg	I am trying to get loader 2 on my ipod
01:06:58		Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
01:06:59	Benjg	using this tut
01:07:07	BigBambi	We do not support loader 2
01:07:10	Benjg	http://www.ipodhacking.com/wiki/index.php/Install_Loader2
01:07:20	BigBambi	We only support the official rockbox software
01:07:23	Benjg	And it does not work
01:07:25	Benjg	Oh
01:07:41	Benjg	I just thought you guys might know how to get it working
01:07:51	BigBambi	It is not our software, ask the iPodlinux people how to use it
01:07:59	Benjg	Ok
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01:26:59	filthpig	is there some way to convert an entire folder from flac to mp3? I have approx 100 gb with flac, so it would be nice to convert all of it without human interference...
01:27:20	BigBambi	Windows?
01:27:35	scorche\|sh	there are plenty of programs to do that, but they are all a bit offtopic for this channel
01:27:42	BigBambi	filthpig: Try foobar2000
01:27:50	Slasheri	from linux that would be just a simple command line script
01:27:51	BigBambi	But yeah, OT
01:30:15	filthpig	ah, sorry
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01:38:26	filthpig	Slasheri, can I pm you?
01:41:19		Quit ender` (" Where python would say you can skin a cat with a knife, so adding other methods would just make the language hard to learn,")
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01:42:54	I	help
01:43:27	I	look
01:43:35	I	I did the bootloader
01:43:40	I	but the rockbox file name
01:43:44	I	was not .rockbox
01:43:53	I	so now my ipod is stuck on the apple logo
01:43:56	I	no disk mode
01:43:57	markun	I: just unzip rockbox.zip onto your player
01:43:58	I	or nothing
01:44:00		Quit I (Nick collision from services.)
01:44:14	markun	hm, don't know how to enter disk mode on an ipod
01:44:20	markun	maybe it's in the manual
01:44:34	markun	search for it or wait for someone who knows
01:44:49	scorche\|sh	he quit from someone with the mane I
01:44:52	scorche\|sh	name
01:44:58	markun	oops :)
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01:47:41	markun	I: welcome back
01:48:35	I	Thanks
01:49:00		Quit I (Nick collision from services.)
01:49:16	markun	haha :)
01:49:27	scorche\|sh	I: hold menu+select to reset, then immediately hold select+play/pause
01:49:46	scorche\|sh	...as it says in the manual
01:49:49	markun	scorche\|sh: he's gone man
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01:50:27	scorche\|sh	oops :)
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02:01:35	scorche\|sh	i suck
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04:09:41	lostlogic	http://www.lostlogicx.com/gallery/20080126_Rockbox_Party/1/cimg0042/
04:10:04	midgey	impressive
04:10:57	lostlogic	we basically kick ass :)
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04:14:00	scorche\|sh	tallest tower ever!
04:14:30		Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
04:16:17	XavierGr	holy shit!
04:16:26	XavierGr	that's a nice tower very tall... :O
04:18:31	XavierGr	though I still prefer amiconn's & pixelma's tower, it is more robust and symmetric :P
04:19:05		Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!")
04:19:12	scorche\|sh	it is, but ours is taller :)
04:19:17	scorche\|sh	and you left..
04:19:26	*	scorche\|sh goesback to beer adn tennis
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05:37:29	kenailes	i have an e250 v1 with a 4gb micro sdhc card. when i boot into rockbox, my player will freeze up and never get past the boot screen if i have the card inserted. if i boot up and then insert the card, everything is fine afterward. i have checked the rockbox forums and the manual but can't seem to find out if this is normal. is it normal?
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05:40:08	psycho_maniac	when was the last time you updated rockox?
05:41:42	kenailes	30 minutes ago
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06:56:36	fabiola	anyone there?
06:58:40	JdGordon	nope
06:58:48	fabiola	lol
06:59:02		Quit Lopin13 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:59:30	fabiola	since you're the only one out there
07:00
07:00:03	fabiola	do you know about how to get the latest build on my toshiba?
07:00:21	fabiola	i mean running
07:00:31	scorche\|sh	lol
07:00:46	scorche\|sh	sorry...that wasnt me
07:00:53	fabiola	really?
07:00:55	fabiola	xD
07:01:02	fabiola	it's ok
07:01:15	scorche\|sh	just extract the .zip right onto the root of the device
07:01:25	fabiola	sure i did
07:01:34	fabiola	but i extracted and old version
07:01:40	fabiola	i tried to unzip the latest
07:02:03	fabiola	and anytime i want to run any of the rocks (such as doom etc) says incompatible version
07:02:48	fabiola	or codec error
07:02:51	fabiola	when i play songs
07:04:11	scorche\|sh	lol!
07:04:25	scorche\|sh	ugh...ignore him
07:04:26	fabiola	not you .......... again?
07:05:25	fabiola	ok from now on i'll ignore every lol from your nick
07:06:25	scorche\|sh	lmao
07:06:31	scorche\|sh	roflcopter
07:06:36	scorche\|sh	omg lol owned
07:07:08	*	scorche\|sh sighs
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07:07:31	fabiola	well like i was saying i have to go back to the oldest because i can't make the latest run, and i really want to have the latest
07:08:05	scorche\|sh	the error you are getting typically occurs from not extracting the entire .zip onto your device
07:09:03	fabiola	yea i unzip the entire zip file, but when i unzip the latest for the toshiba it's missing the gbsystem folder and without it says the no system found on hdd
07:09:42	scorche\|sh	phtyobih8k
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07:12:38	midkay2	LOL scorche got owned
07:12:57	fabiola	huh?
07:13:43	scorche\|sh	khbljhmvk
07:16:27	midkay2	scorche is an impostor
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07:17:38	midkay2	scorche is a liar
07:17:43	midkay2	and he gives bad advice
07:17:46	midkay2	dot trust him
07:17:48	midkay2	I sweat
07:17:58	fabiola	lol sweat?
07:17:59	fabiola	haha
07:18:00	Mode	"#rockbox +o scorche\|sh " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
07:18:02	Mode	"#rockbox +b !cff4943f@* " by scorche\|sh (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
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07:18:36	scorche\|sh	dgnm
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08:31:01	Calcipher	hey people, anyone around
08:31:12	DogBoy	you are
08:31:13	Calcipher	I have been MIA since mid november
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08:31:50	Calcipher	I spent a few minutes reading the last few hundred commits haha
08:31:58	Calcipher	just to catch up
08:32:19	Calcipher	crazy dev work got done since I last looked in
08:32:37	Calcipher	Think I'll check out the latest build
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08:47:00	Calcipher	whoa, I can't find a simple rbutil dl link
08:47:11	Calcipher	let me look deeper
08:48:32	Calcipher	found it in rbutil section in the wiki
08:49:13	Calcipher	would have thought it would be under extras in the download section, as I think I remember it being there before, I may be wrong though
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08:58:06	shadowcode	HI all :)
08:58:59	shadowcode	I have some questions.
08:59:27	shadowcode	I am working on porting the RockBox to RockChip RK26**
08:59:50	shadowcode	but I need some help
09:00
09:00:59		Quit ol_schoola ()
09:02:10	shadowcode	the RK26** is zsp400 architecture and the only compilers/assemblers I fount are the GreenHills MULTI but it is inposible to get it
09:02:13	shadowcode	and
09:02:27	shadowcode	the ZSP gcc
09:02:45	shadowcode	but it to have been removed from the site
09:03:16	shadowcode	cen someone help ?
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09:04:27	Calcipher	hmm, hey has anyone tried using the latest rbutil to create talk files with default lame and SAPI TTS option? I get a TTS path incorrect error
09:04:40	Calcipher	"path to TTS is wrong!"
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09:06:59	shadowcode	markun do you have some info on this ?
09:07:59	shadowcode	the last time you gave me a link to a pdf that mentiond the sdcc ?
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09:21:13	Calcipher	I wonder if anyone would be interested in having voice box have an option to include some metadata tags from music files rb supports, and have the parts of rb that read this data be able to have the info read, as an example when browsing the db, since it reads the info off the files ID3 or whatever tags the entries it finds have
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09:24:24	Calcipher	I noticed that while using the db, if you used voice box to create dir and file talk clips, the voice menu feature would accurately read out the artist name under the artist category, since its the same as the dir name the artist tracks are found in, all other information is read in the spelled out fashion if the option is enabled
09:26:23	Calcipher	allowing the inclusion of metadata in talk files would open all sorts of doors for expanding accesability features
09:28:14	Calcipher	I don't know how the system works so my suggestion be terribly flawed since I don't know if its possible to be implemented the way I am thinking, thats why I hope some bright and skilled devs could shine some light on my mystery
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09:42:41	Calcipher	if anyone has any ideas on my suggestion please let me know, I'll be afk so please leave a pm or something
10:00
10:01:12	linuxstb	Calcipher: That's been talked about before, and there may even be a patch in flyspray that starts to implement it (IIRC, it generates the talk clips, but they can't be played yet)
10:06:47	Calcipher	whoa, nice
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10:07:43	Calcipher	thanks for the information linuxstb
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12:08:13	BigBambi	Calcipher: By the way, the link to rbutil is in the manual
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12:50:10	C30`Palanoid	hi is buschel here? i wanna help out on the device disabling build tests. using a 4th gen grayscale ipod :)
12:52:10	Horscht	you could probably try contacting Buschel on the forums via PM
12:52:21	Buschel	hi palanoid, yes i am here :o)
12:52:39	Horscht	or not :D
12:52:42	C30`Palanoid	lol
12:54:06	Buschel	you could in fact help me with some information and maybe testing.
12:54:29	C30`Palanoid	ive run battery benchmarks with both unofficial build 16150 and official 16170,and posted the result on the patch tracker
12:54:47	Buschel	yes, saw it. pretty good gain :)
12:55:13	C30`Palanoid	hehe
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12:55:30	C30`Palanoid	what info you need?
12:56:14	Buschel	can you read out the register info out of "View i/o ports"? when using the patch? all the DEV_ stuff
12:58:34	C30`Palanoid	where can i find that info? is it in the ipod?
12:58:56	BigBambi	The debug menu
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13:00
13:00:08	Horscht	so, Buschel. You are trying to improve battery life on ipods?
13:00:21	Horscht	all models, or only certain ones
13:00:24	Buschel	i already did ;-)
13:00:58	Horscht	nice.
13:01:12	C30`Palanoid	DEV_En: C2931977 ,DEV_EN2: 0000000,DEV_EN3: 0007003F,DEV_INIT1 0004000,DEV_INIT2: 00000000
13:01:16	Buschel	horscht: in fact its about checking register of the PP-processor −− ipods use this use, but also H10 or Sansa's
13:01:48	C30`Palanoid	DEV_EN2: 00000000 sorry
13:02:10	C30`Palanoid	and DEV_INIT1: 00040000
13:02:14	Horscht	So, I am looking on flyspray to find results :)
13:03:04	Buschel	palanoid: can you build rockbox for yourself?
13:04:13	C30`Palanoid	know nothing about it lol
13:04:32	Buschel	you did use soap's builds?
13:04:32	Horscht	"Expect to see double digit percentage increase in battery life." nice.
13:04:48	C30`Palanoid	ya the 16150M one
13:05:15	C30`Palanoid	using it right now
13:05:20	Buschel	ah, ok. then it'll be hard to check for further bits to disable...
13:06:54	Horscht	after i've completely charged my 5th Gen Ipod, i'll give soaps build a whirl :)
13:07:02	C30`Palanoid	sorry :( i guess i didnt help much
13:07:45	C30`Palanoid	ya go ahead! his build rocks
13:08:16	Buschel	palanoid: of course you helped! you posted runtime results and you told me the default register settings (which show that only DEV_EN1 is of further interest)
13:10:03	C30`Palanoid	omg i read the value wrong. it should be C2831977 for DEV_EN1
13:10:13	C30`Palanoid	lmao
13:10:25	Buschel	even better
13:11:02	markun	shadowcode: no sorry, I didn't find any free compiler either last time I looked.
13:11:36	markun	but I believe the RK27** series is MIPS32 based which I think can be compiled with GCC>
13:18:14	C30`Palanoid	by the way buschel,do you and soap intend to make power saving builds for 3rd gen ipods?
13:18:54	Buschel	no, that's another (older) processor type
13:19:25	C30`Palanoid	ic
13:19:28	BigBambi	1st - 3rd gen iPod already get better battery life than the original firmware
13:19:50	C30`Palanoid	oh! thanks for info
13:19:53	shadowcode	Hi all
13:19:53	BigBambi	Thanks to reverse engineering by amiconn
13:21:05	shadowcode	How can i create a php page from MySQL I want to store the PHP code in the MySQL DB and create a PHP page from it.
13:21:11	shadowcode	can you help ?
13:21:21	BigBambi	This is well off topic
13:21:40	Buschel	palanoid: could you also read out GPO32_VAL from the i/o ports debug menu?
13:22:01	shadowcode	I just need some quick help
13:22:08	BigBambi	shadowcode: Not here
13:22:20	shadowcode	I have to do this
13:22:24	shadowcode	k
13:22:25	BigBambi	This is a logged development and support channel for Rockbox, nothing else
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13:23:32	shadowcode	I am working on porting RockBox to RK26** to is this count ? :D
13:23:55	BigBambi	Work on a new port is obviously on-topic
13:24:04	BigBambi	What is the RK26**?
13:24:21	shadowcode	RockChip
13:24:34	BigBambi	Ah, OK
13:24:35	shadowcode	RockChip RK26**
13:25:01	Bagder	shadowcode: you actually done any work on that or just thought about it?
13:25:35	C30`Palanoid	GPO32_VAL : 02000000
13:26:20	Buschel	thanks,
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13:26:30	C30`Palanoid	NP
13:26:39	C30`Palanoid	ooops caps
13:26:49	markun	shadowcode: until we find a free compiler there is nothing we can do
13:28:11	Buschel	palanoid: this was 4G greyscale, not photo/color, right?
13:28:16	C30`Palanoid	right
13:29:30	markun	Bagder: I saw some hint that the RK27xx uses a MIPS32 architecture and others that it uses ARM+DSP. Is MIPS32 a DSP?
13:29:54	markun	Doesn't look like it
13:31:12	markun	I should have bookmarked, now I can't find any info about rockchip and mips32
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13:32:54	markun	no, I got 2 CPU's mixed up.
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13:36:43	Soap	Ok, Buschel, I'm about to exit windows land and reboot back into linux - what needs built?
13:37:43	Buschel	soap: I'll update a patch after checking compilability (takes some time on my old machine). then an update is needed for 4G grey and ipod video
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13:46:53	C30`Palanoid	hey guys,will battery bench results be different if i set different mAh in Battery Capacity settings in the general settings menu?
13:48:53	Bagder	markun: no mips is a good old standard risc arch
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13:55:36	kugel	hello, rockboxdev.sh wants to download binutils 2.16, but i have allready 2.18 installed. do I need 2.16 specifically?
13:57:40	n1s	kugel: Which target are you building for?
13:57:46	kugel	arm
13:58:44	kugel	the wiki reads 2.16 too, I just wonder if I need 2.16 or it just hasn't been updated yet
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13:59:14	n1s	ok, then I don't know, to build with 2.18 for coldfire the "linkscript" patch from FS #7832 is needed though
14:00
14:00:15	n1s	otherwise the first ~20kb of the image was overwritten by 0s
14:00:38	Buschel	palanoid: the battery capacity setting will only influence the displayed estimated remaining time
14:01:47	kugel	k
14:04:02	preglow	kugel: use what is stated in the wiki
14:06:28	kugel	k
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14:16:10	Buschel	preglow: do have any idea how to find out, if the voltage supply for the WM-codec is just the digitanl supply or the analogue supply?
14:18:31	n1s	preglow: Testing latest snapshot of gcc4.3 main binary grows 3% libmad and Tremor doesn's build at O2 but everything seems to work now, with some small changes to the code
14:23:13	n1s	testing on h300 btw
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14:26:51	przemhb	hi all
14:29:16	przemhb	could anyone tell me what may be a reason of an "Error: opening file: /rockbox/fonts/nedore-9.bdf" during make zip comand?
14:29:57	przemhb	the same concerns nimbus-12.bdf and helvR10.bdf..
14:30:17	n1s	przemhb: did you use svn to get the source?
14:30:23	przemhb	yes
14:30:34	przemhb	svn update
14:30:36	n1s	does "svn st" say anything?
14:31:45	przemhb	well... I use TortoiseSVN graphical interface and I'm not familiar with svn st syntax, but wait a moment...
14:31:46		Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
14:34:16	przemhb	(svn st is executing)
14:34:25	Buschel	prelow: hmm, when changing the WM voltage from 3V to 1.8V during playback volume gets down a bit. so I assume its either analogue or digital/analogue voltage supply. It's a pitty we do not have the datasheet for the WM8758 −− it's all about guessing.
14:34:48	przemhb	I've got a few modified files as I've got a few my patches applied to the source
14:35:35	n1s	przemhb: well, it would be interesting if it told you anything about the font files
14:36:03	n1s	but also it's strange that a regular make zip touches those since they are not included in the zip...
14:36:45	pixelma	przemhb: are you on cygwin? And is the error always the same, even if you "make zip" a second time?
14:36:54	n1s	meh, someone changed the script, i am out of date, it should actually include fonts for themes that are included...
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14:37:08	przemhb	pixelma: yes, I'm using cygwin
14:37:23	przemhb	yes, the error persists
14:37:37	przemhb	it is the same all the time, so I cannot make zp
14:37:46	linuxstb	n1s: So it includes all fonts, not just fonts for the default theme?
14:38:27	n1s	linuxstb: afaict it includes some fonts, which are used by included themes
14:38:48	n1s	my h300 zip includes 2 fonts for example
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14:39:51	pixelma	would this change need a reconfigure? Not sure, since I can't remember having such a problem here...
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14:42:11	linuxstb	przemhb: What line-endings (DOS or Unix) have you configured cygwin and tortoiseSVN to use?
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14:44:31	przemhb	linuxstb: I've got Unx line-endings
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14:45:34	przemhb	linuxstb: make worked fine for me up to now
14:46:36	przemhb	and just a few days ago, when I tried to make zip it failed with the error message I've written above
14:46:38	linuxstb	przemhb: Was that the _exact_ error message?
14:47:46	linuxstb	I'm guessing it was "Error opening file: .rockbox/fonts/nedore-9.bdf" ?
14:47:47	przemhb	linuxstb: "Error opening file: /rockbox/rockbox/fonts/nedore-9.bdf"
14:48:00	przemhb	yes, it was
14:48:25	linuxstb	Which one? /rockbox/rockbox or .rockbox ?
14:49:09	przemhb	"/rockbox/rockbox"
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14:49:17	linuxstb	OK.
14:49:36	przemhb	as I've got source placed like this
14:49:58	przemhb	interesingly I've got the same error on another PC
14:50:02	linuxstb	Do you have that file in that location?
14:50:05	woodensoul	Hey guys, how can i leave a message for Nico_P? I have some more info on a annoying playback bug.
14:50:10	n1s	anyone familiar with coldfire asm can tell me if this is illegal "move.l (%a2,%a0.l*4),76(%sp)"
14:50:15	przemhb	yes, the file is there
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14:50:39	linuxstb	woodensoul: Is there a flyspray task for that bug?
14:51:06	woodensoul	Yes
14:51:18	linuxstb	Then best to just post a comment there. I'm sure he'll see it.
14:51:28	woodensoul	I just wanted to bring his attention to the new info since I think he made the commits that caused the bug.
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14:53:43	austrian_webgues	Hi everyone! Does anybody know how I can start another plugin from my plugin? I tried "plugin_start("/.rockbox/rocks/viewers/viewer.rock", "/.rockbox/foo.txt"); " but the compiler does not like it :(
14:53:50	linuxstb	przemhb: What does "ls -l /rockbox/rockbox/fonts/nedore-9.bdf" output?
14:53:54	linuxstb	austrian_webgues: You can't...
14:55:00	austrian_webgues	Why? I've seen some old code (~2006) that does exactly that..)
14:55:23	linuxstb	austrian_webgues: Only one plugin can be loaded at once, so the act of loading a second plugin will overwrite the first.
14:55:37	austrian_webgues	How can I get the textviewer to automatically display my .txt file?
14:55:46	austrian_webgues	Is there even a way...
14:55:52	amiconn	n1s: According to the programmer's reference manual (p.113) it should be allowed for ISA V2, but according to the execution times list in the MCF5249 user's manual it is not.
14:56:20	linuxstb	austrian_webgues: What exactly are you wanting to do?
14:56:32	n1s	amiconn is the 5249 isa v2?
14:56:39	amiconn	I'm not sure why; this instruction would need 2 extension words, which would be ok
14:56:43	amiconn	yes
14:57:14	austrian_webgues	I've written a little viewer plugin that opens a mp3 file, extracts the unsynced lyrics, saves them to a temporary .txt file and (should) open it with the viewer
14:57:14	przemhb	-rwxr-xr-x 1 quark Brak 21748 Oct 23 23:00 /rockbox/rockbox/fonts/nedore-9.bdf
14:57:47	n1s	hmm, gcc4.3 spits out that line when building Tremor with O higher than 1 and as doesn't like it...
14:58:07	linuxstb	przemhb: That's odd, my nedore-9.bdf is only 19184 bytes...
14:58:28	amiconn	crlf vs lf ...
14:58:48	linuxstb	Yes, just realised that...
14:58:51	amiconn	TortoiseSVN is nasty
14:59:08	linuxstb	przemhb said he had unix line-endings though...
14:59:12	pixelma	przemhb: this page suggests that you need to use crlf in cygwin too http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UsingCygwinAndTortoiseSVN
14:59:38	linuxstb	So you can't configure TortoiseSVN to use Unix line-endings?
14:59:43	pixelma	because tortoise changes line endings in the checkout or so
14:59:45	amiconn	Tortoise is not configurable, and always uses crlf
15:00
15:00:05	amiconn	It's a nasty piece of software, at least in conjunction with cygwin
15:00:47	amiconn	You can use it if you configure cygwin to use crlf, but I would rather not do that, and use commandline svn instead
15:02:06	linuxstb	austrian_webgues: That's not going to be possible, unless you add some code into core Rockbox to first call one plugin, then the other.
15:03:01		Quit woodensoul ()
15:04:11	austrian_webgues	Thanks linuxstb, any suggestion what I could do instead?
15:04:39	austrian_webgues	I'd have to display it myself, including some scrolling code...
15:05:11	austrian_webgues	... which would be a lot of work for litte benefit!
15:06:12	austrian_webgues	OR I could copy'n paste the textviewer sourcecode into my plugin and let it do all the work
15:07:33	*	amiconn thinks some generic code for text wrapping and display in the plugin lib would be a good idea
15:08:05	amiconn	The textviewer does more than that, though. It can also handle texts which are larger than the buffer
15:09:24	przemhb	pixelma: I have checked line-endings - my nedore-9.bdf is using CRLF
15:09:53	linuxstb	przemhb: I would guess all your files are...
15:10:22	przemhb	pixelma: but changing to LF does not help make zip to be executed without the error
15:10:22		Quit austrian_webgues ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
15:11:13	przemhb	linuxstb:no, not all - I've took a look on some randomly chosen files - some are using LF and some CRLF
15:11:57	linuxstb	What about wps/WPSLIST ?
15:12:33	przemhb	linuxstb: CRLF
15:13:04	linuxstb	Which ones are LF (for example) ?
15:13:48	przemhb	boxes.112x64x1.wps
15:14:12	linuxstb	Did you use the command-line "svn" in the past, and recently change to Tortoise?
15:14:24	przemhb	voice_thread.c
15:14:47	amiconn	przemhb: I'd ditch tortoise and use command-line svn for rockbox. It will save a lot of hassle
15:15:16	*	amiconn doesn't understand why TortoiseSVN isn't configurable for LF while TortoiseCVS is
15:15:23	przemhb	I've switched to Tortoise something like a half year ago
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15:16:24	przemhb	linuxstb: recently I was just using SVN update
15:17:34	przemhb	that's the point - I am just doing svn update recently and on two pc's I get the same error
15:18:06	przemhb	make executes fine
15:18:06	linuxstb	As people have been saying, you have two choices: 1) Ditch tortoise and go back to the command-line svn; 2) Follow the instructions here http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UsingCygwinAndTortoiseSVN and configure cygwin for CRLF
15:18:22	przemhb	just make zip started to produce the error
15:20:18	przemhb	I'll try, but I don't understand how this could happen
15:20:30	pixelma	make zip didn't have to deal with .bdf files before
15:22:24	przemhb	Oh - so that is the case!
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16:17:23	shadowcode	What are the CPUs of the supported players ARM ?
16:17:35	n1s	some of them
16:18:56	shadowcode	and the other MIPS ?
16:19:00	preglow	m68k and sh
16:19:07	shadowcode	is there some ZSP ?
16:19:10	preglow	no
16:19:22	preglow	i don't even know what that is
16:19:25	shadowcode	so ARM and MIPS
16:19:36	preglow	no, arm, coldfire (m68k) and sh
16:19:37	preglow	like i said
16:19:46	shadowcode	zsp are very good CPU s
16:19:57	shadowcode	k
16:20:03	preglow	sure, but i've never heard of them, and none of our targets have them
16:20:20	shadowcode	I am going to get a player whit ARM so i cen compile some code for it
16:20:35	shadowcode	the zsp400 is to closesource
16:21:53	shadowcode	sh ?
16:22:23	preglow	also known as superh
16:22:34	preglow	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperH
16:22:43	shadowcode	k
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16:23:02	shadowcode	what is the iPod cpu arch ?
16:23:24	preglow	ipods, at least the ones we support, are portalplayer chips, which have a dual arm core
16:24:10	shadowcode	dual MACs ?
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16:28:14	preglow	mac?
16:29:19	shadowcode	the dual ARM in the ZSP400 dual zsp is dual mac i dont know the trans
16:29:31	preglow	what do you mean by "mac" ?
16:29:35	shadowcode	have any one seen ONDA players ?
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16:40:19	sunjun	hey, has anyone tested how much album art in wps affect battery life?
16:40:28		Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
16:43:58	preglow	i wouldn't think it affects it much, it should seldom need refreshing, after all
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16:52:26	sunjun	and what about treble and bass settings ?
16:53:08	sunjun	i was doing some battery benching, same playlist, 24 mp3 files in 192kbit on sansa e260
16:53:38	sunjun	default settings, no wpd 16h40, simple wps with album art and -4db on bass i got only 15h
16:53:45	sunjun	no wps*
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17:15:43	shadowcode	so if I get RockBox on a player I can code my own programs for the OS ?
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17:18:02	krazykit	shadowcode, yes, you can write your own plugins for rockbox, or change the core, if you so desire.
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17:24:02	markun	shadowcode: also the other way around: when you can get your own program on a player you can start to port rockbox.
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17:38:15	mboat	hey guys, i have a quick question regarding track lengths on rockbox
17:38:41	mboat	on my computer and on the OF it shows the correct lengths, but they're incorrect in rockbox. any way to fix it?
17:40:13	Lear	file format? and how much wrong?
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17:41:31	jhMikeS	eek, that 3g phono jack module is a riduculous price for what it is. :\
17:41:36	mboat	mp3. the first song on one of my albums should be 3:06 but its showing as 1:02, then the second song is supposed to be 4:00 but its 5:20
17:41:55	Llorean	mboat: Are they VBR MP3?
17:42:49	mboat	CBR
17:43:02	Llorean	What did you use to encode them?
17:43:43	mboat	a program called "switch"
17:44:00	Lear	Even if not VBR, it could have an incorrect header.
17:44:04	markun	mboat: could you host the file somewhere?
17:44:18	mboat	yeah sure...hold on a second
17:44:35	markun	mboat: if it's copyright protected, better give me the URL in a PM
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17:58:25	Lear	Switch appears to use Lame, so the created file should be fine, though you never know what they do after the encoding is complete. But I do wonder if they comply with the GPL... :)
17:59:22	Lear	Ouch, using Lame 3.82 though, which is really old...
18:00
18:00:09	mboat	what do you mean by comply with the GPL? O.o
18:00:24	mboat	i didnt pay for switch...
18:00:26	Llorean	Lear: The site looks a little dubious, yeah.
18:00:40	Llorean	No source of any sort obviously available.
18:01:02	mboat	ooh.
18:01:26	mboat	do you guys have another program that you recommend?
18:01:30	mboat	i just kinda picked the first one i found
18:01:31	mboat	haha
18:01:34	Lear	Anyway, using something like "Rebuild MP3 stream" "Fix VBR MP3 header" in Foobar2000 could fix the file.
18:02:50	mboat	so there could be something wrong with the file even if it shows correct information on my computer and on my OF?
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18:08:55	Lear	Yes, Rockbox is lazy and only looks at the header for length information.
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18:19:08	C30`Palanoid	hi,i see buschel posted a patch in patch tracker,how do i install it into the player? where exactly should i put it?
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18:21:12	krazykit	C30`Palanoid, if you're talking about the patch to get more battery life, soap has several builds with it included in the Unsupported Builds forum. alternatively, read the wiki pages SimpleGuideToCompiling and, i suppose, WorkingWithPatches
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18:21:35	C30`Palanoid	thx a lot
18:21:44	Soap	Those builds are out of date - I should have new ones up in a few hours after I get done with work work.
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18:25:33	sunjun	im testing those patches right now, and on flyspray i see people getting 20h runtimes with flac's, but i only get 16h40min with mp3's, should there be that much of a difference ?
18:28:08	kugel	sure, flac is less complex
18:28:13	Lear	There are lots of variables, like battery condition, sound processing enabled (like the EQ), file format...
18:28:24	sunjun	default settings
18:28:26	kugel	the more compression the core complexity, in general
18:28:39	kugel	core = more
18:29:34	sunjun	and regarding the stuttering menus some were getting lately, i noticed it too, but rarely, and im not really sure yet, but it stutters mostly on vbr mp3s, 320cbr seems to be ok
18:30:05	PaulJam	kugel: but the effect on the batterylife also depends on the target, for harddisk targets less compression also means more disk spinups.
18:30:09	Soap	sunjun, and don't mix and match runtimes on 30GB iPod Videos with runtimes on 60/80GB iPod Videos. The two models have significantly different batteries.
18:30:25	sunjun	i have a sansa e260
18:30:38	sunjun	and searched out results of sansa users on flyspray
18:31:10	Lear	MP3 decoding is comparatively slow on arm (e.g., sansa players).
18:31:16	kugel	PaulJam: Sure, but I was expectiing sunjun to have a e200, since his messurements matches with e200
18:31:19	Soap	yea - battery condition makes a difference. W/o knowing what your runtime is with the stock firmware you have no basis of comparison.
18:31:35	kugel	meaning no disk to spin up
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18:32:39	kugel	sunjun: tbh, 16h40 is great, don't worry
18:33:36	sunjun	it dropped to 15h after settings bass to -4db and using a wps with album art :D
18:33:44	sunjun	setting*
18:34:14	kugel	which wps have you used before? the stock one or one using a backdrop?
18:34:44	sunjun	the 16h40 result - no wps or backdrop, just black on white
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18:35:21	mboat	i guess it is switch's fault
18:36:30	markun	mboat: did you find out anything else?
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18:37:07	mboat	i found that the original files i have at 320kbps have correct data
18:37:16	mboat	but not the ones at 128
18:38:24	markun	if you transcode to save space you could also try ogg vorbis.
18:39:44	mboat	alright i'll try that one
18:40:12	kugel	markun: Do you know if ogg gives better runtime compared to mp3 or aac?
18:40:30	markun	kugel: I think better that aac and worse than mp3
18:40:38	kugel	ok
18:40:55	markun	but you can compile a codec test plugin to find out for sure
18:41:01	kugel	I wanted to switch to vorbis, but I didn't find a program with that I could easily convert. Do you have a hint for me?
18:41:13	krazykit	kugel, lame and oggenc ;-)
18:41:27	markun	not really. usually I use command like tools (like krazykit0
18:41:29	markun	)
18:41:36	krazykit	though you wouldn't want to "switch" by transcoding. that'll kill sound quality
18:41:45	krazykit	unless you're transcoding from a lossless source
18:41:58	kugel	I know about that
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18:43:03	mboat	i dont. lol.
18:43:09	kugel	are there other usefull tools, i.e. to split ogg files, or a tool with a GUI to enc/transcode?
18:43:10	mboat	half of this is gibberish to me...
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18:43:49	sunjun	kugel: foobar2000 should be able to do it all fairly easily
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18:44:17	markun	kugel: I found this tool to be the most flexible ogg cutter and sticher I tried: http://www.oook.cz/bsd/oggscissors/
18:46:11	kugel	another command line tool
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21:25:03	Calcipher	can anyone let me know whats happening with the voicing metadata in talk files work?
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21:31:12	fyrestorm	if there was an option to turn off the lcd after a few minutes of idling (but still playing music), would that save battery life?
21:31:33	fyrestorm	say, putting the ipod 5th gen on hold
21:31:38	fyrestorm	while playing music
21:31:50	fyrestorm	or is that not possible
21:33:20	Buschel	yes, it would save some. and i am also a friend of having an option to have the possibility to switch off the LCD when e.g. backlight is off.
21:33:58	Buschel	but for now there is no knowledge about how switch off and restart the display
21:34:30	desowin	I did such test over half year ago on ipod mini, haven't noticed difference in runtime
21:35:12	fyrestorm	hm
21:35:24	Buschel	on a 5G you will some power easily through leaving the WPS, give about 1h more playtime on my 5G with my custom PWS
21:35:33	Buschel	*WPS
21:36:05	fyrestorm	hm
21:36:13	desowin	but the way I did it haven't disable wps though, just the display went down, I think it was the reason I haven't noticed any difference
21:37:20		Quit Axio (Remote closed the connection)
21:38:35	desowin	also I duno if the display got shut down propertly, it fixed the "ghost line" though
21:38:56		Quit tedrock (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
21:40:00	desowin	and I don't have ipod anymore
21:40:28	fyrestorm	i have an old 4th gen
21:40:33	fyrestorm	which doesnt work anymore
21:40:36	fyrestorm	hard drive crapped out
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21:41:09	desowin	(I'm not rockbox hacker though)
21:41:41	robin0800	Soap,installed the test viewports theme in a 5g video sim and noted the play icons etc flash on and off in the viwport there in I think they are static icons is this a known fault?
21:42:16		Join tedrock [0] (n=tedrock@d235-159-75.home1.cgocable.net)
21:43:16	Buschel	fyrestorm: then you may test the device-disable patch (if you can build rockbox for your own, or if you wait until soap created a build)
21:43:19	Soap	THAT I do not know, robin0800. I only provide those to encourage the testing of viewports by the general community - as they are comming.
21:43:31	fyrestorm	yeah i dont know how to create builds
21:43:43	Soap	Buschel, I'm \|\| <−−-this close to being finished in Windows land.
21:43:45	fyrestorm	but i am willing to test
21:44:18	Buschel	soap: :o)
21:45:00		Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
21:45:16	przemhb	linuxstb: I've switched cygwin to CRLF endings; echo "test">>./test.txt results in file with CRLF ending so I guess cygwin is indeed switched to CRLF, but make zip produces the same error, although nedore-9.bdf and other fonts have now CRLF endings (checked)
21:45:25	desowin	Buschel: I got 18 hours 22 minutes runtime on sansa e280 playing ogg -q8
21:45:26	Buschel	soap: btw, I am also very interested in a battery bench of your 5G 60GB as you use higher playback volume for your tests
21:45:42	desowin	(with v13)
21:45:52	desowin	do you want to look at battery bench?
21:46:16	Buschel	desowin: what was the svn runtime with the same playlist?
21:46:21	Horschti	I am currently benching on a 5gen 80GB, Buschel.
21:46:30		Quit C30`Palanoid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:46:32	Horschti	right now, I am benching unpatched
21:46:36	robin0800	Soap,does the view port do an auto refresh?
21:47:05	desowin	Buschel: can't really say as I did svn runtime just when I bought sansa, it was quite some time ago, but I got 15 hours then; I'll redo the test
21:47:16	linuxstb	przemhb: Are _all_ the files now CRLF?
21:47:25	Buschel	horschti: great, just post the results in the forum or flyspray −− i am collecting all the results to have an overview
21:47:25		Quit weezerle ("...und tschüss!")
21:47:32	Horschti	I will
21:48:10	Horschti	well, I just finished "benching" the default FW, now charge, then unmodified, then recharge, then patched
21:48:19	Horschti	so, it's still gonna take some time
21:48:20	przemhb	linuxstb: not all but error message says only about the 3 fonts which are now CRLF
21:48:52	przemhb	linuxstb: I'd excpected error messages to say about different files now
21:49:19	przemhb	linuxstb: as the 3 fonts are now CRLF
21:49:38	Buschel	desowin: does the battery percent show a more linear behaviour on e200 now?
21:49:49	linuxstb	przemhb: If I was you, I would do a clean SVN checkout, to make sure everything is CRLF, and take it from there. AFAIK, other people are using such a configuration, so it should work.
21:50:30	przemhb	linuxstb: I'll try, thanks
21:50:34		Quit DogBoy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:50:42	desowin	Buschel: desowin/sansae280r16143-disablev13.txt">http://people.atheme.org/~desowin/sansae280r16143-disablev13.txt
21:50:50		Quit kugel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:52:18		Quit Horschti ("I am root. If you see me laughing, you better have a backup")
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21:53:24	Soap	Buschel, will you be around in ~30 minutes?
21:53:50	Buschel	soap: i think so :)
21:53:57	Soap	ok
21:54:23	robin0800	linuxstb,do you have a prefered place for possible viewport bugs?
21:55:55	Buschel	desowin: looks more linear than before −− even though there's still room for improvement
21:56:50	linuxstb	robin0800: What's it concerning?
21:58:08	robin0800	linuxstb,static icons flashing in a view port see ave for more details
21:58:34	robin0800	linuxstb,above
22:00
22:02:13	linuxstb	With what WPS? An existing one, or one that's been modified to use viewports?
22:02:58	robin0800	linuxstb,the modified on on the tracker page
22:03:18	Calcipher	I have a question about generating a .voice file, I was wondering if it may be possible to include a utility that could re create an existing .voice file in a different tts voice engine, for example if you downloaded the current build with the espeak default .voice file, with the utility I am proposing (if it is even possible) you could choose the source .voice file, and choose a tts engine for example SAPI5, and the sapi5 voice of cho
22:03:38	linuxstb	robin0800: That's a theme for a 220x176 target - you've been using it on a 5g?
22:03:53	Calcipher	and a new .voice file using the selected engine and voice would be created, for the voice menus system
22:04:45	markun	Calcipher: we have a utility which creates a voice file from a lang file. What would be the benefit of doing so from a voice file?
22:04:59	robin0800	linuxstb,I modified it just the width of the viewports nothing else
22:05:38	Calcipher	the only alternative method to creating .voice files in anything other than the default espeak, is a time consuming compile, just to get the .voice file, so thats updating svn and compiling a new build whenever there are changes made
22:06:02	linuxstb	robin0800: Have you tried the original 220x176 (on either a H300 or ipod Color sim)?
22:06:15	markun	Calcipher: why would espeak be less time consuming?
22:07:13	Calcipher	I'm sorry, I don't mean it would be less time consuming, I mean the fact is most users don't have dev environments set up
22:07:22	robin0800	linuxstb,no but why changing the width should start or stop icons flashing?
22:07:30	markun	I'm not sure if you can create a voice file with rockbox utility, that would be nice
22:07:46	Calcipher	and wouldn't have the ability to recreate the .voice file in an other voice easily
22:08:00	n1s	Calcipher: the voicefile does not contain the spoken strings so you would need to have some speech recognition software figure out what the clips in the original file said, hardly simple...
22:08:01	Calcipher	I didn't know about the utility you mentioned
22:08:15	markun	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxUtility
22:08:28	markun	one of the features: Create voicefile
22:08:41	markun	but I've never used it myself
22:08:46	linuxstb	robin0800: It shouldn't do, so either a) the problems happens in the original wps (but I never saw it there); or b) your changes have caused it...
22:09:00	linuxstb	robin0800: Can you upload your .wps file to pastebin?
22:09:35	Calcipher	Hm, I didn't even have luck with rbutils create talk clips options
22:10:24	Calcipher	I was able to create my own .voice files by compiling in cygwin and specifying sapi5
22:10:49	Llorean	Calcipher: You'd use a source language file to create a new voice, you can't really "re-create" from an older voice file.
22:11:04	Llorean	What version of RButil did you try?
22:11:16	Calcipher	1.3 I think
22:11:22	Calcipher	I donwloaded it last night
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22:12:24	Calcipher	oh so is there a utility that can generate the voice file from a lang file? using different synths and voices?
22:12:57	Llorean	RButil should be that utility
22:13:16	Llorean	But the way voice files work, if you wanted to create a new tool, it would use language files, not voice files.
22:13:31	Calcipher	oh, I'll take a closer look, maybe I over looked that option
22:14:05	Llorean	Well, I don't know if it offers that feature yet
22:14:11	Llorean	But 1.0.3pre isn't the newest version, I don't believe
22:14:36		Quit przemhb (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:14:40		Quit tvelocity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:14:40	Llorean	It's just the newest one we have available for download. Try the newest SVN version, if you can compile.
22:14:55		Quit desowin ()
22:14:58	Calcipher	oh, I found the link to it in the wiki, It was kind of strange it is not in the extras section under downlads
22:15:13	linuxstb	Checking the SVN logs, voicefile creation was added on 11 Jan, with bug fixes following, up to 20 Jan.
22:15:15	Llorean	It's in the manual... why should it also be in Extras?
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22:15:30	Calcipher	hehe I have been trying to avoid compiling
22:15:43	Llorean	Well if you want to play with the newest toys, you're going to have to.
22:15:58	markun	isn't the whole idea of the rockbox util that people can easily install without compiling?
22:15:58	Calcipher	I see, thanks
22:16:20	linuxstb	markun: Yes, once it's done...
22:16:45	robin0800	linuxstb,http://pastebin.ca/875432
22:17:37	Llorean	markun: Yes, that's the idea, but since it's the installer, we like to make sure the precompiled binaries are (in theory) "working" versions, much like bootloaders
22:17:51		Quit perrikwp ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 3.0b3pre/2008012404]")
22:17:59	Llorean	And the last precompiled version is I think from before voice building was in
22:18:51		Quit MethoS ("Konversation terminated!")
22:19:07	Calcipher	that explains that, I had been looking through the commits and was expecting those features, didn't realize it wasn't the latest
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22:21:59	Calcipher	Actually I have never made rbutil from svn
22:22:00	Horscht	%root_menu "/Music/" in tagnavi_custom.config would make rockbox look for media files in /Music/ only, correct?
22:23:09	Calcipher	I'll take a look at it before asking any questions
22:23:41	robin0800	Horschtyou can use the ignore folder file found in the root of the playery to do the opposite
22:24:17	robin0800	Horscht, you can use the ignore folder file found in the root of the playery to do the opposite
22:24:19	pixelma	Horscht: if I remember correctly that would just name your custom database menu /Music/
22:25:26	Horscht	ok, I think i'll just use the ignore folder file.
22:27:17	linuxstb	robin0800: I can't see anything wrong immediately (and don't have time to investigate properly). Can you upload your .wps to the flyspray task (with a description of the problem), so it's not lost?
22:29:31		Quit Soap ("Leaving")
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22:29:45	Lear	Buschel: It sounds like it could be useful to disable wps updating when the backlight is off, at least for some targets. Just made a quick patch doing that for the Sansa e200, and it doesn't seem to break anything at least...
22:30:00	Horscht	robin0800, simply adding the directory into the text file? (for example /iPod_Control/ ?)
22:31:28	linuxstb	The opposite - creating a file called "database.ignore" inside the ipod_Control directory.
22:32:04	Horscht	ah, i see
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22:32:41	Horscht	thank you
22:33:06	Llorean	Lear: Does the database redraw properly after? I was lead to believe you couldn't safely stop updating the screen without some corruption afterward. Or do you mean just not drawing the framebuffer to the LCD kinda thing?
22:33:16	Llorean	Lear: Err, "WPS" not "database"
22:33:16		Quit ch4os_ ("Lost terminal")
22:35:00	Buschel	lear/lorean: my idea was to implement something like a "idle WPS" -> leaving WPS and entering idleWPS when backlight is going off, and re-entering WPS if backlight is switched on again. the idle WPS colu
22:35:05	Buschel	oops
22:35:05	Lear	Llorean: I mean not render the WPS to the framebuffer. This change is on the apps level.
22:35:21	Buschel	could blank out the screen for example
22:36:04	Lear	Buschel: My change is along those lines, though currently it doesn't blank the screen or enter a special WPS. It just stops updating it.
22:36:34	Llorean	It certainly needs to be optional, since updating it have varying costs depending on target, and some targets have a visible WPS without backlight.
22:36:39	Llorean	But I can get behind that
22:37:07	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:37:43	Lear	Yes, this should only be enabled on targets where the display is unreadable without the backlight.
22:37:56	Llorean	Or just be optional on all targets
22:38:26	pixelma	and depending on the benefit I'd think
22:38:32	Llorean	If it's going to be in my pocket, I really don't care if I can or can't see the screen with the BL off, I'd rather it not update. ;)
22:38:38		Quit seablue ("life, death, life, death")
22:38:49	Buschel	it should be optional. just think of our blind users −− they will gain some runtime without loosing anything
22:38:52	Llorean	I do believe the iPod 5G is actually classified as "visible with BL off" right now, and that's where the benefit is greatest, I think
22:39:30		Quit n1s ()
22:40:07	pixelma	I mean if the runtime is really longer by a good amount, not only 10 minutes or so
22:41:32	robin0800	linuxstb, done
22:41:44	Lear	Buschel mentioned an hour or so for an ipod.
22:42:01	Buschel	pixelma: just look at ipodruntime page. we're talking about >10min
22:42:26		Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
22:42:57	pixelma	I just remember that I liked the fact that I could read the display without backlight on LinusN's Video
22:43:21	soap	ok Buschel, I'm back on Linux. Let's talk about what builds I need to make.
22:43:34	Buschel	pixelma: depends on your usecase
22:43:59	Buschel	soap: ok. so, what were your last builds?
22:44:54	soap	Buschel, PP5020v2 for all the 5020 devices, and DDv13 for all the others.
22:45:36	Buschel	ok, then there's only pcf-03 for iPod Video and 4G grey
22:45:50	linuxstb	Buschel: I'm not saying I'm against an option to stop drawing the WPS, but it just seems to be admitting defeat if Rockbox can't update a WPS without a significant impact on runtime...
22:46:29	Llorean	linuxstb: At least the sansa firwmare stops updating the WPS when the backlight is off.
22:46:40	Llorean	It may just be "business as usual" for color LCDs.
22:46:47	linuxstb	How do you know?
22:46:58	Llorean	Because I looked at it while the backlight was off?
22:47:03	Buschel	linuxstb: or it's the advantage to be able to be more efficient via configuration −− matter of usecase
22:47:08	Llorean	They don't clear it.
22:47:15	linuxstb	Ah, so it's one of those LCDs you can see whilst the backlight is off?
22:47:20	Llorean	They leave a static image, but things like "Time Played" don't change.
22:47:26	Llorean	You can see it under very, VERY ideal lighting conditions.
22:47:38	soap	so pcf-03 for video and 4G gray, 5020v2 for the remaining 5020 devices, DDv13 for all the others (Nano I guess is the only other)
22:47:41	Llorean	It's not really meant to be read without a backlight, but I was curious
22:47:42	preglow	well, don't make it default, my nano is perfectly visible with no backlight
22:47:56	Llorean	preglow: Agreed
22:48:08	linuxstb	Buschel: It's not more efficient, it's just doing less...
22:48:11	Buschel	soap: ah, you want to rebuild all with against new svn?
22:48:25	soap	sure
22:48:27		Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
22:48:28	Llorean	linuxstb: As well, I think it's only admitting defeat if we can't beat the OF runtime without the option. I think adding the option so that we beat the OF by more, rather than using it as a way to match the OF, is fine. ;)
22:48:41	preglow	is wps redrawing that intensive? i thought it was quite easy on the cpu
22:48:46	preglow	without peak meters, at least
22:48:59	linuxstb	Llorean: No, it's admitting defeat if we can't draw a WPS without impacting runtime at all...
22:49:01	Llorean	Apparently on the 5G it can make nearly a 8% difference in runtime?
22:49:07	pixelma	if you can read the display without backlight it also saves power in normal use - you don't have to switch on the backlight if you want to read it...
22:49:09	preglow	what kind of wps?
22:49:11	preglow	that sounds insane
22:49:18	Buschel	soap: then simply use pcf-03 for all −− it contains the code for all. but for ipod video and 4g grey there are relevant changes
22:49:19	pixelma	at least not always
22:49:35		Quit m0f0x (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:50:01	Llorean	linuxstb: Maybe the BCM is simply drawing more power than it should? I don't believe we've got results on anything but a 5G? And I seem to recall older tests suggested the WPS had a minimal-to-immeasurable result.
22:50:46	pixelma	Llorean: on my c200 the OF still updates the display (at least the long song name is still scrolling)
22:51:14	pixelma	progress bar and time is updating as well
22:51:18	Buschel	llorean: maybe this because of the fps of 5G? you'll need at least 4MHz CPU to achieve the 5fps of the WPS. 4MHz cost about 1.3mA on a PP502x
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22:51:32	Llorean	pixelma: On my e200 it didn't. Maybe they decided the e200's screen couldn't be seen (or maybe different FW versions behaved differently)
22:51:42	soap	Buschel, Ok, just to clarify one last time - pcf-03 is a merge of the PP5020 specific branch with the generic DeviceDisable branch and now has some additional tests for 4G and Video - but should be no changes for people previously running DDv13 on their Sansa (for example)
22:53:10	*	pixelma is happy about Rockbox volume control - the first step from mute is already too loud in the c200 OF...
22:53:21	soap	Llorean, my battery benchmarks suggest that iCatcher gives me 95% of the runtime of <no> WPS
22:53:35	Buschel	yes, pcf-03 = v13 + "4G grey register settings" + "PCF experimental stuff for iPod Video" + PP5020-v1/-v2
22:53:49	soap	and the old default (with peak meters) gives me 85% of the runtime of <no> WPS.
22:53:54	Llorean	soap: As in, a blank file?
22:54:05	soap	as in sitting in the menu.
22:54:08	Llorean	These benchmarks are also on a 5G?
22:54:10	Horscht	k, I will wait for the pcf-03 then :)
22:54:12	soap	yes
22:54:16	soap	Horscht, working on it now.
22:54:25		Quit csc` ("Powering Off")
22:54:29	Horscht	yeah, no pressure
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22:54:39	Horscht	still charging, anyways
22:54:40	Llorean	linuxstb: So apparently for soap, the problem can result in a 15% decrease in battery life on 5G
22:54:48	*	linuxstb wonders what impact the proposed default WPS has...
22:55:09	Llorean	Well, if iCatcher is so much better than "Default with peakmeters", I bet the proposed default will be somewhat better
22:55:25	Buschel	soap: do you know in how much fps the peak meter results? maybe this is the root cause for the big difference?
22:56:16	amiconn	The peakmeter updates at 20fps - but just the small rectangle which contains the peakmeter
22:56:35	soap	Buschel, no I do not.
22:56:58	soap	mind you this is with LAME APS, so I'm already at ~ 50% boost.
22:57:03	soap	FWIW
22:58:09	SacredTerror	Buschel: I have a iPod 4th gen Gray and was wondering if you still needed help with Register Startup Configuration with your patch
22:59:48	amiconn	Buschel: I wonder what LCD you mean with DEV_EN bit 26
23:00
23:00:04	amiconn	There are at least 3 types of lcd (bridges) involved on pp targets
23:00:33	amiconn	All mono/greyscale pp targets plus the c200 use LCD1
23:00:58		Join csc` [0] (n=csc@archlinux/user/csc)
23:01:06	amiconn	The G5 uses none of the bridges but the BCM chip hooked to the bus
23:01:14	amiconn	All other colour pp targets use LCD2
23:02:16	jhMikeS	amiconn: the e200 uses the DMA lcd controller so that's four :)
23:02:30	amiconn	Yes, plus LCD2 for commands iirc
23:02:36	Lear	I put my proof-of-concept code on Flyspray: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8523
23:02:45	jhMikeS	it's bit banged on e200
23:02:54	Buschel	amiconn: ? you are talking about the pp-register page?
23:02:55	amiconn	ehh
23:03:00	amiconn	bucko: yes
23:03:08	amiconn	Erm, that was to Buschel
23:03:19	amiconn	Too many bu<tab> error ;)
23:03:50	Buschel	amiconn: this entry was not made by me −− it is described in pp5020.h
23:04:11		Join midkay_ [0] (n=midkay@70-56-93-80.tukw.qwest.net)
23:04:45		Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 3.0b3pre/2008012604]")
23:05:20	Buschel	amiconn: but it was needed for LCD on e200
23:05:25	Buschel	by test
23:05:25	Horscht	nn
23:05:35	linuxstb	So what targets are 100% unreadable without backlight?
23:06:03	preglow	all colours targets but video and nano?
23:06:13	amiconn	yes
23:06:20		Quit amiconn (" Fensteraufdatum")
23:06:29	pixelma	what about the Colour?
23:06:39	*	linuxstb keeps repeating that the Ipod Color is readable without backlight...
23:07:08	pixelma	all but Ipods with colour display then?
23:07:15	preglow	i wouldn't be opposed to making "wps update during bl off" disabled for the other targets
23:07:24	preglow	enabled..
23:07:29	markun	with the right angle and reflection from the sun I can read my Gigabeat's LCD without backlight :)
23:07:35	preglow	no, disabled
23:07:38	*	preglow hits himself
23:07:48	linuxstb	pixelma: What about the Sansas? I thought you just said the c200 is readable?
23:08:47	pixelma	nah, not really usable - same as what Llorean said about the e200. I need to hold it close to the light on my desk to read it.
23:09:25	pixelma	maybe it would be somewhat readable in bright sunlight too
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23:16:06	*	linuxstb wonders what the HAVE_SCREEN_THAT_CAN_BE_READ_WITHOUT_BACKLIGHT_OR_HOLDING_IT_VERY_CLOSE_TO_LIGHT define should be called
23:16:37	Buschel	HAVE_TRANSLUCENT_LCD
23:17:04	jhMikeS	HAVE_BLACK_HOLE ??
23:17:57	Bagder	HAVE_NEEDS_BL
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23:18:06	*	jhMikeS got it all backwards anway :p
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23:20:10		Quit m0f0x (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:20:12		Quit petur ("stop shouting ;)")
23:20:39	preglow	HAVE_SHITTY_LCD is more correct :)
23:21:23	*	jhMikeS would beg to differ re: gigabeat black hole or not
23:21:24	Buschel	self explaining and eloquently
23:22:25	bucko	Tab completion for the lose!
23:22:36		Quit keanu ("Leaving")
23:24:23		Join Zom [0] (n=zom@h-182-168.A166.cust.bahnhof.se)
23:24:23		Quit uwe_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:30:50	soap	Buschel, do you still need people to play with you regarding the register startup configuration?
23:31:01		Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
23:32:04	Buschel	soap: 4G Photo and Mini 2G are missing. But i don't think there are many users left with such, what do you think?
23:32:27	soap	I'll put out a call for them.
23:32:35	soap	As for how many exist? I have no idea.
23:32:44	Buschel	soap: nevertheless the patch will work for them
23:32:54	*	amiconn has a Mini G2
23:33:25	Buschel	amiconn: well, then I may kindly ask you to help me with the settings?
23:34:48	amiconn	linuxstb has a photo
23:35:28	Buschel	linuxstb/amiconn: could you help out with some testing then?
23:35:37	amiconn	Right now I have too many half-finished things here :/
23:36:39	*	amiconn experienced a hard freeze (on H180) today...
23:36:57	DrCherry	i just hosed my ipod . . ugh
23:37:29	DrCherry	any way to "start over" without using iTunes?
23:38:36	Buschel	amiconn: maybe another day then
23:39:35		Join m0f0x [0] (n=m0f0x@189-47-69-46.dsl.telesp.net.br)
23:39:41	Buschel	soap: thanks for updating the builds −− it would take hours on my PC to build all these variants! :)
23:39:56		Quit styleism (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:40:18	soap	you're welcome
23:40:42		Join Tyroazard [0] (n=nnscript@pcd287133.netvigator.com)
23:41:07		Quit grndslm (Remote closed the connection)
23:44:29		Quit MethoS- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:44:51	linuxstb	Buschel: I'll be happy to help, but another day as well...
23:44:53	jhMikeS	the cabbiev2 theme on gigabeat has "; ; ::" at the top above "NOW PLAYING". ??
23:45:26	Buschel	ok folks, gotta go to bed now. see you tomorrow
23:45:29		Quit Buschel ()
23:46:32	moos	jhMikeS: is the time set?
23:46:55	jhMikeS	ummm...no
23:47:19		Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
23:47:29	moos	that's just this, set the time, and it will be displayed instead with the date
23:47:31		Quit m0f0x_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:48:20	jhMikeS	aha, much nicer
23:48:24	moos	: )
23:49:12	jhMikeS	It's never set because of frequent battery switch use
23:50:30		Quit moos ("Time to sleep, have a good day/night all")
23:50:31		Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@pD955F7A4.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:50:48		Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
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23:56:12		Join m0f0x_ [0] (n=m0f0x@189-47-0-59.dsl.telesp.net.br)
23:57:46		Quit bertrik ("bye")
23:58:31		Quit stel (Remote closed the connection)

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