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#rockbox log for 2008-02-03

00:00:05BigBambiI see a badger
00:00:12BigBambiIt looks angry
00:00:14*BigBambi hides
00:00:27*scorche gets the tranq gun normally used for rasher out
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00:00:48*BigBambi hides behind scorche
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00:03:57 Part thgz
00:04:25broomHas the recent commit by jhMikeS resolved the issue with disk spinning?
00:04:30IzzehOWow... all that... because the case game was out of sync :o -sigh-
00:04:49IzzehO*Reapplies all 17 patches*
00:04:58broomI can't check since I don't own a DAP with two processors/cores.
00:05:36broomjhMikeS: ah, you here! Was it the ultimate solution? Or just a try?
00:06:30 Quit broom (Client Quit)
00:06:51rasherBagder: build server hanging?
00:06:57rashers/server/system/
00:07:15rasherAh, stupid me. Last two commits were in rbutil..
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00:07:26Bagderhehe
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00:20:31IzzehOAnyone here could possibly resync the dict2 plugin?
00:22:00IzzehOOtherwise, thanks I've got it compiled and it's running fine! ciao...
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00:40:28soapbuschel (logs?) sure. I can make a bench for you. Sorry I haven't yet.
00:42:55rasherBagder: no biggie with the latest request - he only sort of wanted it
00:43:18saratogasoap: do you know what the story is with the battery life decrease in SVN?
00:43:23saratogai saw a mention of it but thats it
00:43:51soapDisk thrashing I've heard - I've been out of the loop the last few days - real busy with work work,
00:44:02saratogaah ok
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01:04:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:34:15pocketninjahey bagder im back
01:35:14 Quit ender` (" Engineers think that equations approximate the real world. Scientists think that the real world approximates equations. Mat")
01:35:47pocketninjahey what knowledge would i need to know to port rockbox to the samsung yp-p2 with a team
01:36:53scorchehttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort is a good guide for things you will (probably) have to know
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01:41:46pocketninjathank you
01:41:59pocketninjadoes anyone here have a samsung yp-p2?
01:48:43countrymonkeynot me
01:52:12scorchecountrymonkey: you dont have to tell us everything you dont have...
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02:07:48countrymonkeyMoos: I have an idea. You mentioned a few weeks or months back that you did a french rework. You mentioned it to me when I was doing the norsk voice patch. What fs# is it? I'm thinking why we don't turn that into beljim french and use yours as france french.
02:13:34pocketninjayea i only wanted to know who DID have it lol
02:13:55pocketninjai am wondering this because i am trying to put together a team to port rockbox for it
02:14:34krazykithave you tried to find a samsung DAP forum?
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03:04:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:40:35webguest13Hello
04:42:55webguest13I'm having troubles with rockbox on my ipod photo 30g, Can anybody help?
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05:04:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:05:40countrymonkeyJust popped in to help any rbers who ask questions.
05:07:15rashercountrymonkey: you don't have to announce your intentions to the world. It's just noise, really.
05:09:02countrymonkeyI have found that if I am silent, someone inevitably asks "Do you have a question?".
05:09:34scorchethat is only after you say "hi" or something like that
05:11:32countrymonkeySpeaking of questions, How large is the font cache? I'm looking for a chinese-trad font that stays under the limit. Unifont is just too big.
05:12:08countrymonkeywithout requiring xtra disk spinups which wastes already precious battery power
05:12:27scorcheso was that a "Yes, i do have a question"? ;)
05:12:46countrymonkeyone just popped in my head.
05:13:02rashercountrymonkey: how much smaller than unicode can you go? I'd say a larger font cache would be the smarter way out
05:13:49countrymonkey,I'm looking for chinese-trad only. No arabic, russian, hebrew, and basicly other charsets I don't need. I just need a max limit for things I find on the internet.
05:14:55rasherThose won't be in the cache unless you use them
05:15:07rasherThat's rather the point of using a cache
05:16:39countrymonkeyWell, I want a chinese-trad font smaller than the cache so the whole font fits. Currently, it reads the glyffs it needs for the settings it is showing at that particular point in time. Then when it needs new glyffs the disk goes spinning back up again. How about a system in which the whole font fits?
05:16:52countrymonkeywhich is why I'm asking
05:17:10rashercountrymonkey: how much smaller than unicode can you go? I'd say a larger font cache would be the smarter way out
05:19:01countrymonkeyIn that case, where in the code is the place where the font buffir is defined? I will patch a build and build it myself.
05:19:28rasherNo idea. I suggest employing grep
05:22:18countrymonkeyThe short description doesn't explain it clear enough for me to be able to understand. If I understood correctly, I need to know what the define is called and I don't.
05:23:19rasherNeither do I. Make educated guesses and grep for that ("FONTCACHE" "FONT_CACHE", etc)
05:23:46rasherOr wait for someone who knows, or does the work for you
05:24:05countrymonkeyI thought you would know.
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05:29:46countrymonkeyI'll wait.
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06:05:53DaCapnis there any information about rockbox on the very latest ipod releases?
06:06:09scorchewhat sort?
06:07:18DaCapnwell, undefined since it is regarding a future purchase
06:07:45scorcheeh?...i am asking what sort of information are you looking for
06:07:52DaCapnoh heh, sorry
06:08:19DaCapnI thought you meant what sort of ipod... just if there should be any expected difference in support
06:08:44DaCapnI have no idea how much the hardware has changed between these "ipod classic" versions or whatever they're called or if all changes are just superficial.
06:08:50scorchei still am not sure what you are asking...the newer ipods are completely unsupported...rockbox doesnt run
06:09:00scorchehardware has changed drastically
06:09:10scorcheand hardware support is far from the only issue
06:09:35DaCapnhow's that?
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06:10:11scorchehttp://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2007/09/18/rockbox-on-the-ipod-classic/
06:10:16DaCapnthanks
06:10:44DaCapnhaha, the first sentence is great... "Let me be perfectly clear on this:"
06:12:50scorcheunfortunately, the entire firmware image is encrypted...this makes things a little tough to reverse engineer
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06:13:19scorcheas well, without the knowledge of how it is encrypted, we cant run our own code
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06:15:10DaCapnright
06:15:44DaCapnThat's really lame, when you think about it, how much do they lose because of things like rockbox?
06:16:43hcscontrol
06:17:19scorcheim sure sandisk has gotten a bunch of RMAs from people that thought their players were bricked as well
06:17:52DaCapnheh... I guess there's that
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07:43:18simonrvnit's mostly about control, since to them it equates to profit, and they're only motivation is just that... you can put the rest of the equation together ;).
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09:16:46crazy_busI saw a custom build on a forum and it had a great number of patches applied to it. Some of those patches dated back nearly 2 years and I was wondering how long patches usual sit in the tracker before being applied to svn. Or if they haven't being applied because they aren't well written?
09:21:00scorchethere is no set time after which, they go into svn...they go into svn when they are suitable and ready
09:21:32linuxstb_Patches require a developer with SVN access to take responsibility for them, review them, and commit - so if no developer is interested in the feature, the patch will rot...
09:22:59amiconnSome patches will never be applied, e.g. if the feature is not wanted in svn
09:23:18JdGordonhey linuxstb_, I tihnk we really need an easy way to get the colour settings from the current viewport into a new vp.. any ideas how best to do it?
09:23:59linuxstb_amiconn: Shouldn't those be rejected though? (if someone gets round to rejecting it...)
09:24:04amiconnSome are even meant to be applied by individuals only, e.g. patches supporting special hardware mods, or workarounds for partially broken devices
09:25:03amiconnlinuxstb: The unwanted features should be, yes.
09:25:51scorchelinuxstb_: someone mentioned to me the other day that they "stole libdemac for use in audacious" ;)
09:26:12linuxstb_scorche: Yes, I heard about that.
09:26:41scorcheapparently it is spreading
09:29:42amiconnNow if the range decoder could be made more efficient... hint hint ;)
09:29:54linuxstb_JdGordon: Copying the parent viewport, then changing the other fields isn't good enough?
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09:31:13JdGordonpassing around a parent isnt always nice
09:31:21JdGordonmight have to do it though
09:31:28*JdGordon fiddling with the quickscreens atm
09:41:24crazy_busI had a 1 hour mp3 file and it had trouble resuming on my sansa e200. Sometimes it would resume from the book mark. Sometimes it wouldn't play at all and sometimes just go back to the beginning. But it you then tried the same bookmark a few times it would eventually work. Is this a normal occurace?
09:41:48crazy_busalso thanks scorche and linuxstb for the patch answers
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09:46:41linuxstb_amiconn: BTW, I read your comments about ipod_fw/ipodpatcher in the logs from a couple of days ago. Just to clarify, ipodpatcher was written from scratch (not using ipod_fw) as a replacement for it. I did initially try to add 2048 byte sector support to ipod_fw, but gave up and wrote ipodpatcher instead.
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09:51:43amiconnOK, so one part of my statement was incorrect. However, the point that ipod_fw is outdated and has bugs which won't be fixed still holds...
09:52:03linuxstb_Sure ;)
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09:53:36amiconnSomehow I think that you wrote ipodpatcher before 2048-byte sector account became necessary though??
10:00
10:01:48linuxstb_I don't think so - checking the SVN logs, the first versions of ipodpatcher (the win32-only version that was used to "dd" images for manipulation by ipod_fw) had support for 2048 byte sectors, which was before I started adding the ipod_fw functionality (in Dec 2006). IIRC, the G5.5 was released in Sept 2006.
10:03:08*linuxstb_ becomes linuxstb
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12:32:04stripwaxSomething about a hdd regression in svn revision 16104 according to FS #8379 comments - that coincides with jhMikeS's changes to ata.c - is there a forum post / any more info?
12:36:08LearIt's not a mixup then, so that they're referring to the issues in 16105 (which seem to be fixed now)? Haven't used 16104+ much on a HDD target though...
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12:39:24stripwaxCould be. The flyspray says 16104+ has the problem. Where is it fixed?
12:40:01stripwaxBuschel_ - I'm trying a 5g 60GB build using 16103 plus pcf-test-03 , will report when I have results
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13:02:49LearThe problem introduced in 16105 was likely fixed by 16197.
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13:10:21pixelmabut not the weird resume problem (at least it's still there on my c200)
13:11:12pixelmawas able to test on an H10 just now and it didn't show up
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13:12:25stripwax"_may_" help 5.5g buffering problems - hmm. well, that would be worth testing. what's the "weird resume problem" ?
13:14:58pixelmaresume doesn't resume from a mid track position for me, it resumes from the start of the next track most of the times or start of the current track
13:17:51stripwaxhm, was that problem introduced in 16105?
13:17:57stripwaxseems unrelated
13:19:02stripwaxDidn't Nico_P have a patch to fix that (or something like it) ?
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13:23:41pixelmawell, in my tests last week, this problem didn't occur with a few revisions I tried (starting with r16018) and I saw it first in 16105, went back to 16104 and it was ok again...
13:23:50stripwaxodd
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13:36:19Buschelstripwax: you should better do a battery bench with svn >= 16197 to check whether the worsened battery runtime was fixed with jhMikeS' change. I did a bench with my 30GB -- no positive effect, but it also didn't seem to suffer from runtime degradation
13:46:49LearResume works for me. However, when testing, the first resume I tried after installing the new build failed, but only that one time.
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15:41:37magenpiei'm trying to figure out if there's a 'sleep mode' for the c250
15:44:25n1snot in rockbox
15:44:40n1sif you mean like a stanby thingy
15:44:53n1s1s/stanby/standby
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15:45:42magenpiei found it!
15:45:55magenpiein system
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15:49:20n1sah, the sleep timer
15:52:37magenpieyeah
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17:06:15zylche/Did not understand The Elephant Dream at all.
17:08:26devurandomIt's just a kind of techdemo, afaik.
17:08:56devurandomRockBox doesn't include a single header file? Or am I just blind...?
17:09:06rasherdevurandom: Hm?
17:09:13ComradeHazhi all - is 'noise' a known issue with RockBox? Particularly on the iRiver H140?
17:09:37ComradeHazThere's always a fair bit of static and even more when scrolling
17:09:37rasherdevurandom: Perhaps firmware/export and firmware/include is what you're looking for?
17:09:46devurandomrasher: Browsing the sources right now and my usual technique of reading headers+docs first doesn't seem to work, since there are nmo headers...
17:09:54devurandomAh, thereok.
17:10:06*devurandom needs to improve his typing...
17:10:13rasherdevurandom: and then there are .h files in apps/
17:10:21rasherDepending on what you're looking at
17:10:29rasherComradeHaz: are you using the remote?
17:10:35ComradeHazsure
17:10:38devurandomWhere should I start looking at, when I want to find out "how this works"?
17:10:55rasherComradeHaz: try turning on "reduce ticking" under the remote display settings
17:10:58ComradeHazshould I try without?
17:10:59devurandomI.e. how you startup at all, is what I am currently interested in... Does a Kernel have main()?
17:11:07ComradeHazthink I have
17:11:09ComradeHazlemme check
17:11:27rasherComradeHaz: the h1x0 has a hardware problem related to the remote which emits some noise, particularly on display updates
17:11:34rasherdevurandom: There's a wiki page about the kernel
17:11:53rasherdevurandom: It's not something I know much, if anything about
17:12:24devurandomRockBox is not at all affiliated with Linux, right?
17:12:29rasherdevurandom: Correct
17:12:37rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxKernel
17:13:17rasherI don't know where to point you regarding the boot procedure
17:13:24devurandomDo you share code with ipodlinux?
17:13:32devurandomrasher: Well, I'll find out. Thanks!
17:14:18rasherThere's a fair bit of sharing with ipl, they had already done a lot of the work when Rockbox started porting to portalplayer targets
17:14:37rasherBut that's pretty much purely drivers
17:15:01devurandomDo you know whether ipl is dead? Seems pretty silent over there...
17:15:35rasherI probably don't know more than you, ie. not a lot of visible activity
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17:22:21devurandomI've never done any embedded programming before. Is there any MUST read? Or is it enough to poke rockbox' code?
17:23:21Domonokydevurandom: nothing really special. just straight c, no malloc, and dont waste resources..
17:23:39devurandomok.
17:24:20devurandomSince I was coding quite some Qt lately, I looked into Qtopia. But I guess a size of 15MB is too much for my iPod. ;)
17:24:28Domonokya good way to start rockbox hacking. is to try a little plugin..
17:24:49Domonokydevurandom: no qt on rockbox, that would be waste of resources.. :-)
17:25:08devurandomWhat I'd be interested in: Is the UI considered alpha?
17:25:15Domonokybut if you like Qt hacking, you are welcom to help out with rbutil (rockbox installer) which is in Qt
17:25:15devurandomI find it rather inconsistent...
17:25:26devurandomYes, already used that.
17:25:51devurandomAnd would have an issue to fix... (/me adds it to his todo-list)
17:26:04Domonokydevurandom: the UI of rockbox is very customiceable, try some different themes..
17:26:16krazykitdevurandom, well, there are always improvements that could be made. a common complaint is how the menus are set up and ordered, but so far there hasn't been a good suggestion on how to fix it, apparently
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17:26:43devurandomDomonoky: The themes change the input schemes too?
17:26:59Domonokyno, only display.. keymaps are fixed..
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17:27:01devurandomSince that is what I have the issue with.
17:27:22devurandomIt seems as if every submenu has its own interpretation of the keys...
17:27:39pixelma?
17:27:45devurandoms/seems/feels/
17:28:03krazykitthe keymaps are not "fixed" by any means. if you come up with something that improves the mapping or makes it more consistent, that would be great
17:28:03countrymonkeyMoos: I was thinking why don't we turn the old french file (before your rework) into a beljim french file and make yours french france?
17:28:21krazykitcountrymonkey, if moos reads the logs, you don't need to repeat it every day.
17:28:40Domonokywith "fixed" i