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#rockbox log for 2008-02-15

00:02:20 Quit davina ("GNU/Linux the free alternative to Windows")
00:04:42peturwoot
00:05:15peturno more crashes :)
00:06:01*FrankOtto applauds petur
00:06:26 Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:06:26peturnow I still have to pinpoint the exact misbehaving thing...
00:06:26 Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net)
00:06:42 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
00:06:56FrankOttopetur: what change did you make?
00:07:34peturfor now I have set_features completely disabled, and also ata_sleep is gone
00:08:03 Quit conando (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:08:04peturtesting goes much faster with a working bootloader ;)
00:09:57FrankOttopetur: you're trying with a 266x card, right? do you happen to know what speed you get in usb-mode? my 133x gives 11MB/s
00:09:57peturata_perform_sleep is not ok... with it it freezes again
00:10:32peturit feels a bit slower than the HDD, but not much
00:10:46peturand I will not be needing dircache on this baby :)
00:11:05preglowon nano you can actually tell the difference :/
00:13:00*petur hopes there can be a way to run-time detect the CF hack so we won't need a special build
00:13:05amiconnThen something must be really wrong on Nano
00:13:43pixelmaBagder: is it on purpose that the downloadable html-manual is still missing?
00:13:44amiconnOn Ondio, dir browsing is instant, even though the read speed is ~350KB/s maximum
00:14:36 Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23F64E.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:14:45DerPapstgood evening :-)
00:14:49pixelmaBagder: hmm, and the others are still as of yesterday
00:15:01peturamiconn: seems that when ata_perform_sleep is done the CF is really gone sleeping and not waking up (?). It feels like frozen but starts responding again after some time (empty dir of course)
00:15:10*DerPapst is looking for the source of this text input thingy but can't find it.
00:15:23DerPapstanyone happens to know where it is?
00:15:30peturvirtual keyboard?
00:15:33amiconnpetur: Well, did you disable the soft reset?
00:15:34DerPapstyes
00:15:54amiconnIf so, the sleep will of course freeze the card, because soft reset is needed for wake up
00:15:56 Quit ender` (" If the experiment works, you must be using the wrong equipment. -- Patrick's Theorem")
00:16:02 Nick roxfan2 is now known as roxfan (n=dunno@156.170-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
00:16:03peturamiconn: where's that?
00:16:13amiconnperform_soft_reset
00:16:19*scorche|w wonders when logbot got opped
00:16:36peturamiconn: it is there
00:16:57preglowamiconn: well, yes, i expect something _is_ wrong on nano
00:16:57amiconnThen your card doesn't play by the rules....
00:17:17amiconn(unless the problem is ata timing)
00:17:41amiconnTry setting ata speed to pio0 and reprogram the correct speed after wakeup
00:18:05 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
00:18:21peturamiconn: never done stuff like that (ata timing), where is it?
00:18:27amiconn(i.e. what I mentioned a while ago)
00:18:41amiconnSome cf registers, see mcf5249 manual
00:18:52DerPapsthmm.. found keyboard.h but not where the function lives declared in that prototype....
00:19:06amiconnCurrently, only set_cpu_frequency() changes those regs, adjusting them to the new clock
00:20:10peturDerPapst: apps/player/keyboard.c ?
00:20:35*amiconn thinks that DerPapst wants the version for bitmap displays...
00:20:42peturoh
00:20:55DerPapstheh... yes :-)
00:21:03petur.../recorder/... ?
00:21:05 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
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00:21:13DerPapstah
00:21:27DerPapstdidn't expect in recorder...
00:21:53DerPapstwow... it's huge o.O
00:21:56peturhistorical stuff...
00:22:01DerPapstthanks :-)
00:23:22*DerPapst wants to figure out how umlauts are handled there...
00:23:31peturamiconn: I'm gonne leave the ata timing switching for the weekend (or you) I think
00:25:25peturhmmm this will be something for target tree I suppose? or use #if› in ata.c?
00:25:55*petur gives his keyboard driver an angry look
00:26:10DerPapstbecause if i define an array of char that contains somthing like "" the userfont (even unifont) displays garbage (wired symbols or rectangles).
00:27:01DerPapstand my source is UTF-8 without boom.
00:27:04DerPapst*BOM
00:27:13peturheh
00:27:45*DerPapst got only 6hours of sleep the last 2 nights in total ;-)
00:28:13roxfantry adding some boom then? :)
00:28:31DerPapsti noticed if i use the sysfont umlauts disply fine.. though the sysfont is kinda small on some targets
00:28:35 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
00:30:00 Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:30:02DerPapstand the vitual keyboard uses the sysfont too :-/
00:31:42 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:32:02*DerPapst tries to figure out where the letters are actually drawn... keyboard.c is a maze...
00:32:28pixelmanot necessarily, there must be some code to make http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LoadableKeyboardLayouts possible
00:34:39DerPapstyou mean because of the sysfont?
00:35:16 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:35:29pixelmaAFAIK those layouts use the user font
00:35:44pixelma(never tried one myself so far though)
00:36:00DerPapstaha.... thanks.. then i'll look a little harder ;-)
00:36:05 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:36:20 Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection)
00:36:21DerPapstat least i found where those layouts are loaded :-)
00:38:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:41:22n1syeah, whaen you use a custom keyboard the userfont is used
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00:43:15 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:43:32DerPapstyep... just found the place where it selects either sysfont or uifond depending on if kbd_loaded is true.
00:43:32 Quit FrankOtto ("Leaving")
00:43:44DerPapst*uifont
00:44:35*DerPapst shouldn't type while being tired. This only leads to lots of typos.
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00:51:03RvXhello. how do I include PATH for compilation? (Make your path include: /usr/local/arm-elf/bin)
00:52:31n1sdepends on the distro but usually in .bashrc or similar
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00:57:36RvXoh, isn't any other way, such as: ./configure −−with-something=/PATH ?
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01:05:12*DerPapst goes to sleep... doing too many stoopid mistakes.
01:05:19DerPapstgood night all :_)
01:05:26DerPapst*:-)
01:05:33 Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!")
01:07:00RvXwhat do I have to put in .bashrc? I have to include this path: /usr/local/arm-elf/bin ...
01:11:25cool_walking_add "export PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/arm-elf/bin" to the end of the file.
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01:21:36RvXI created file named .bashrc in my ~/ but it stills doesn't work :(
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01:26:53 Part pixelma
01:27:49RvXI got it. it should have been: export PATH=/usr/local/arm-elf/bin:$PATH, not export PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/arm-elf/bin
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02:17:00hachiis todays build of rockbox having problems with changing playing tracks?
02:17:14hachiand when I say today, I mean... I downloaded it about 10 minutes ago
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02:38:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:00
03:12:39 Join Thirtysixway [0] (n=Thirtysi@c-69-242-211-17.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
03:13:31ThirtysixwayWhy doesn't rockbox work on 2nd gen ipod nano?
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03:24:45midgeyThirtysixway: apple decided to encrypt their firmware and the hardware is completely different than the 1st gen
03:26:26keanuJust as a heads up, I noticed that Gerritt Gonzales is in the credits twice
03:27:01Thirtysixwayoh, so I guess there isn't hope for it ever to be on the 2nd gen :\
03:27:39midgeyit's definitely possible but it's a lot of work
03:28:50midgeyit's basically a completely new port and someone would have to discover a way to execute third-party code
03:29:00Thirtysixwayoh
03:29:26midgeyi don't think anyone is actively trying to break the encryption scheme
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03:29:59midgeyif they are, we don't know about them
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03:31:29jac0bhello all, I am trying to get the FS #7113 patch resynced but now the bootloader loads only half way and gets stuck can anyone help me out with this?
03:33:08ThirtysixwayI found some stuff about decrypting the firmware
03:33:09Thirtysixwayhttp://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/17/135205
03:33:49midgeythats the database checksum; it has nothing to do with the firmware encryption
03:34:10midgeyit's just another step that apple went to prevent people from not using itunes
03:34:20Thirtysixwayoh :s
03:35:24midgeybasically, cracking the checksum allowed people to use other programs to sync their ipods such as amarok
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04:00
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04:02:26ajg983is there any information on if and when rockbox may/will be up and running for either cowon's d2 or iaudio7?
04:02:52Thirtysixwayhow about the zune ;p
04:04:51midgeyajg983: there have been basic work on both of those players, but we don't give out time frames
04:05:08ajg983ok.
04:05:11midgeyyou're best bet is to read the threads on the New Ports section of the forums
04:06:04ajg983thanks.
04:06:08 Quit ajg983 (Client Quit)
04:06:32midgeyThirtysixway: the zune is very similar to the Gigabeat S which is being worked on right now. Rockbox is able to boot and browse the disk and menus. however, the bug that allowed us to run code on the gigabeat is gone on the zune so a new way to run code needs to be found
04:07:09Thirtysixwayx; you're just full of information
04:07:41ThirtysixwayI don't have a zune, I've just thought about getting one after my ipod dies, and I didn't see anything on the forum about zune
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04:20:24niikoDoes anyone here use cpchan's sansampeg script to convert flv files for rockbox?
04:20:53Thirtysixwayno
04:20:59niikook :\
04:21:01Thirtysixwaytry download.com for a flv converter
04:21:09krazykitniiko, questions on that would probably be best pointed at cpchan
04:21:37niikoYeah, I was really hoping I might find him/her here. *shrug*
04:21:54krazykithe's around sometimes, but you could just shoot him a PM on the forums.
04:21:55niikoSorry to bug you guys though
04:22:03krazykitor his email, assuming that's somewhere available
04:22:04advlaptop2019niiko, he is in #AnythingButiPod right now
04:22:09niiko:D
04:22:10crzyboysterI noticed an odd behavior in the plugin "bubbles", when you're at the start screen (one with all options listed) on an ipod nano, the level change goes DOWN when you rotate the clickwheel clockwise. This is pretty irregular with the rest of rockbox (clockwise=up)
04:22:13niikoThanks!
04:22:29crzyboysternikko: You can use winFF just fine for this
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04:23:27crzyboysterYou can view youtube videos quite easily, just download the flv with the downloaders out there and then run throuhg winff
04:23:57niikoI might end up trying that. A Linux solution would be ideal though
04:24:18crzyboysterIIRC, wiff is linux and windows...
04:24:36niikoOh!
04:24:51crzyboysterhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer#Using_WinFF_Windows_Linux :D
04:25:16niikoYou rockbox people are just FULL of surprises!
04:27:00crzyboysterniiko: I guess rockbox is pretty "cool"! And does anyone know what I was talking about with my bubbles thing?
04:27:17midgeycrzyboyster: that might have gotten screwed up during the scrollwheel button rename commit (r16045)
04:28:19crzyboysterNo big deal anyways...
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04:38:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:51:46drx656wanna get an answer to an opinion ?. I want to get a 16gb mp3 player and can't decide between a cowon iaudio7 or a creative zen. Which is more recommended and most ot all, what are the pros/cons and WHICH SOUNDS THE BEST?
04:51:54 Quit ch4os_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
04:52:04krazykitdrx656, neither is a rockbox target, so your question is offtopic.
04:52:24 Quit csc` (Remote closed the connection)
04:53:37drx656well then which one would be more rockbox friendly for a build release?
04:54:29 Quit Neovangl1st (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:55:19krazykitdrx656, neither, as i don't believe custom code has been run on either. why not check out the BuyersGuide wiki page for currently supported targets?
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05:00
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05:33:58 Join xp|atinum [0] (n=xplatinu@modemcable239.59-56-74.mc.videotron.ca)
05:34:08xp|atinumHi
05:34:46cool_walking_hi
05:35:34xp|atinumIs rockbox suppose to work with a freshly formatted ipod ? (without restore from itunes)
05:35:59xp|atinumwhen I boot it it asks me to restore first before using
05:36:10cool_walking_The iPod does?
05:36:16xp|atinumyes
05:36:23cool_walking_I'm not sure
05:36:27xp|atinumI used the Rockbox Install utility app
05:36:28cool_walking_might as well try it
05:37:00xp|atinumbecause I wanted my ipod to be 100% apple software free
05:37:14cool_walking_That's not possible at this point
05:37:25cool_walking_Rockbox needs the Apple bootloader
05:37:49xp|atinumok so 1) install itunes 2) restore ipod 3) uninstall itunes 4) install rockbox
05:37:53cool_walking_Rockbox also doesn't have it's own UMS mode, so you need the OF to access the iPod from the computer.
05:38:22cool_walking_That's what I did.
05:38:43xp|atinumwhat do you use to manage your ipod ? ephpod ? yamipod ?
05:38:46cool_walking_Though there's a method to restore it without using iTunes on the Wiki.
05:39:01cool_walking_I just drag and drop
05:39:42xp|atinumit's great that it supports simple drag/drop AND usercreated subdirectories
05:40:30cool_walking_Yeah. I hate having to use special software to put stuff on MP3 player/phone/etc.
05:42:28xp|atinumhow's the battery life with rockbox ? lasts longer ?
05:43:44cool_walking_Depends what model, but it's currently a little shorter on Videos.
05:44:04xp|atinumi have an ipod video 30gb
05:44:25xp|atinumI know it doesn't support it but is there a possibility for future xvid/divx playback ?
05:45:08cool_walking_I really have no idea (I'm just a user) but at this point I would say no.
05:45:24 Quit Horscht ("Snak 5.0.2 Unregistered copy. Evaluation period is over. Program will now quit. Thanks for using Snak.")
05:46:04LloreanThere's no reason that it couldn't be done
05:46:14LloreanBut all the people who are interested in it aren't interested in it enough to learn and do.
05:46:26xp|atinumit would be awesome to have that feature
05:46:59LloreanThen implement it.
05:47:15LloreanEverything in Rockbox is done by volunteers interested in it.
05:48:29xp|atinumI would definately help if I had the slightest knowledge in stuff like that.
05:48:39xp|atinumunfortunately it's not my branch hehe
05:48:50cool_walking_Does the broadcom chip only help with Apple's codec or could it be used for general processing? Or do you guys have no idea what it does?
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06:03:08xp|atinumis managing pictures just as easy as mp3s ?
06:03:24xp|atinumits a pain in the arse with itunes... so stupid to absolutly have to sync from a specific folder
06:05:58cool_walking_Just drag and drop
06:07:08cool_walking_http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml will tell you everything.
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07:36:51Thirtysixwaywhat language are plugins written in
07:37:06krazykitC
07:37:53krazykitit's possible there's some ASM too, but it's primarily C.
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07:38:24Thirtysixway..how are they compiled into .rock files
07:38:47scorcheby using a compiler (gcc)
07:38:52krazykithave you read the For Developers pages on the wiki and looked at the source code?
07:38:56Thirtysixwayno
07:39:11ThirtysixwayI'm going to go read it now
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08:48:10LloreanSeen this page? http://www.ilgerone.net/rockbox/index.php
08:49:06*GodEater fires up google language tools
08:49:28LloreanIt's an "Italian Homepage" for Rockbox. =/
08:49:33scorchehttp://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ilgerone.net%2Frockbox%2Findex.php&langpair=it%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 :)
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08:50:35LloreanI used babelfish
08:50:53LloreanGoogle did a better job though
08:52:19GodEaterlooks to be blind focused too
08:52:31GodEaterthey have Jaws scripts linked right on the front page
08:52:44scorcheapparently june 2nd is rockbox day
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08:53:51GodEaterdid you just wander in there randomly Llorean ? Or did someone tell you about it ?
08:54:42LloreanGodEater: Mailing List
08:55:03GodEaterah
08:55:37LloreanThe site worries me a little, it looks like they're claiming a specific "latest version" as being 19/12/07's build
08:56:19GodEaterthey're kind of doing their own support though
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08:57:48LloreanThe site just makes me a little nervous, since it's not entirely obvious, at least in google translate, that it's simply re-providing it.
08:58:07GodEaterthey do link to us at the bottom of the page
08:58:54LloreanAh, there it is.
08:59:28LloreanWell, what will be, will be.
09:00
09:00:36GodEaterI regard the fact that we don't have an influx of confused blind italians as proof of their relative success
09:00:49Lloreanhahaha
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09:06:30LinusNwell, they have a link to the official rockbox site on almost every page
09:07:59GodEaterI think they have themselves a nice little project there
09:08:20*GodEater wonders if we should provide a link back to them
09:09:02LinusNi think so
09:09:09*petur spots Alessio Lenzi there as 'staff'
09:09:19LinusNfigures :-)
09:09:46*GodEater doesn't recognise the name
09:10:01peturour Italian translator
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09:10:25petur(who sometimes also commits something else iirc)
09:11:00LloreanI just wish they'd simply link to the official current build rather than hosting their own outdated copy.
09:11:27GodEaterI think they're entitled to do that if they're providing support for it
09:11:34GodEaterit makes their life much easier
09:11:58LloreanThey're entitled to do whatever.
09:11:59GodEaterheck, it'd make our life easier too :)
09:12:04markunLlorean: maybe they test a build first and only try to provide more or less stable builds or something. Or one where the italian intranslation is 100% up to date.
09:12:20Lloreanmarkun: Maybe
09:12:44GodEaterthey have a known target, with known faults that way
09:12:53LinusNi think it's a great initiative
09:13:06LloreanBut if you visit their site, their list of supported targets is wrong, and the "in progress" ones is kinda inaccurate.
09:13:20LloreanI'd classify the gigabeat as much more mature (for a user) than iPod feels.
09:14:47markunLinusN: junti1234 told me there is a Korean gigabeat community now. All using rockbox of course :)
09:14:58LinusN:-)
09:15:11*petur is not surprised
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09:16:19LloreanI'm just worried because we already get people not trusting our supported players list, and it doesn't help when there are sites out there that actually have wrong information.
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09:17:06markunmaybe we should do releases after all
09:17:08GodEaterif there was nothing on that site to worry about, you'd invent something to be worried about.
09:17:19GodEateryou worry too much :)
09:17:37Llorean:-P
09:17:39LloreanFair enough
09:18:12GodEaterI'd like to point out (again) we still haven't had a bunch on confused blind italians querying us since December on what the best supported rockbox target is ;)
09:18:24GodEaterQED
09:18:57GodEaterif those guys don't like recommending the sansa and the gigabeat, they must have their reasons
09:19:41markunthe touch cross is probably not very blind friendly
09:20:36GodEaterthat's what I was thinking
09:20:38LloreanMore so than the wheel on the iPod, I'd think
09:20:51LloreanAt least with the cross you can feel the edges with a touch soft enough not to trigger it, then treat it like buttons
09:22:08amiconnmarkun: Did you get my comment regarding that pio mode patch?
09:22:16markunnope
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09:23:16markunin today's log?
09:23:33amiconnyesterday...
09:25:18peturamiconn: did the nano report powermanagement support?
09:26:39peturbrb
09:26:47amiconnyes
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09:41:40peturamiconn: but the nano doesn't give any issues in set__features() regarding powermanagement?
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09:56:43Nico_PjhMikeS: any idea why rockbox can't seem to write to the S' disk?
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10:05:19Nico_Plinuxstb: I made something that should've worked (even worked on my PC), but because of what I said above, it doesn't work on target
10:05:32Nico_Pon my comp it gave weird permissions to the files though
10:05:37Nico_Pnot sure it's perfect
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10:18:54jhMikeSNico_P: Because I disabled it for now :)
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10:37:13amiconnpetur: No. The only thing the nano doesn't seem to like is an ata soft reset, although that's also a mandatory ata feature...
10:37:29amiconnI really think this has to do with timings
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10:54:23Mark__Tmoin
10:56:48Mark__Tin the Sansa c200 documentation, itgives the advice to load the DB to RAM, to save batery, because the disk spins for every search
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10:57:26Mark__TAFAIK the c200 hasn't anything that spins
10:57:58amiconnYup. That advice is obviously nonsense
10:58:30amiconnI think some option that selects which text blocks are included in which manual is set wrong there
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11:00:13*gevaerts speculates about getting USBOTG host support going on the ce200, and then attaching an external drive with a real spinning disk
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11:04:33broomAhem... The manuals (http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml) are still at Feb 13. Just a note.
11:06:44Mark__Tand missing 2008 in the Copyright notice
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11:08:53Mark__Tnice piece of software though
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11:09:23broomBagder: ping
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11:11:20broomBagder: didn't you start the manual build manually? Did it work?
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11:23:45*gevaerts pretends not understand what broom means, and notes that manual builds are manual by definition
11:24:10peturheh
11:28:14broomgevaerts: you mean manuals are manual by definition? :-)
11:28:40gevaertsDoes anyone here know why there are some accesses to 0x7000002C and 0x70000028 in usb_init_device() in usb-fw-pp502x.c ? They don't seem to be needed on my c250
11:29:07linuxstbProbably just stolen blindly from the ipodlinux source (where a lot of our PP code originated from)
11:29:19gevaertsbroom: I'm not sure about manuals, but manual build are, aren't they ?
11:30:16gevaertslinuxstb: and they probably got them from the OF, so they won't know what those registers are either I guess
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11:33:23linuxstbgevaerts: Most likely.
11:35:37markunis forum searching broken or just slow?
11:38:24amiconngevaerts: Maybe those accesses aren't needed on your c200 because the settings are already done by the loader
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11:40:56Bagderbroom: I did and I saw them build
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11:41:18BagderI can also see they build automatically this morning
11:41:21Bagderbuilt
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11:52:09gevaertsamiconn: could be. I'm not going to remove them without being sure they aren't needed somewhere
11:52:34broomBagder: were the results put to the download page? I still see Feb 13 there.
11:53:20Bagderseems the html versions aren't built
11:54:00Bagderthe pdf versions are
11:56:00Bagder /bin/sh: line 3: htlatex: command not found
11:56:05Bagderdoesn't look too good
11:57:01BagderI wonder where that went
11:59:50Bagderok building it again
12:00
12:01:31peturhmmm the day before feb 14, some latex goes missing... I wonder where it went :)
12:02:25broomBagder: in the PDF I see Feb 13 as well
12:02:34Bagdernot me
12:02:54Bagderyou're reading a cached one or something
12:03:29BagderI checked several
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12:05:29broomBagder: indeed. Now I see Feb 15 in the PDF
12:05:43Bagdergoodie
12:05:54Bagderand the "online" and html zips will be too within a while
12:06:29Bagderpetur: and my wordpress went partly french ;-)
12:06:51peturif you need translation,... ;)
12:08:49Bagderwell, luckily only parts of the gui did this and I know that already without having to read the labels much
12:08:55Bagderjust a very curious problem
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12:10:19antonhi there
12:10:59antonhallo ?!
12:11:19peturhi
12:11:34Bagderanton: we're 120+ people here, we don't "hi" everyone
12:11:51antonkk
12:11:53antonsorry
12:11:56Bagderjust feel welcome!
12:12:01antonthx
12:12:05Bagderand hang around or ask questions or whatever you need!
12:12:45antonsb here who know install for sansa @ linux 32 ?
12:12:50*gevaerts wonders if any rockbox people are going to FOSDEM
12:13:01Bagderanton: there's a manual you should try
12:13:14antonthe the bootloader file is some how not "normal"
12:13:23antoni know the man
12:13:38linuxstbHow is it not normal?
12:13:39antonhttp://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/sansapatcher/linux32x86/sansapatcher
12:13:50antonso is this the normal text ?
12:14:08linuxstbJust download the file, rather than viewing it in your browser.
12:14:19Bagderfosdem seems nice, I wish I could go
12:14:20linuxstbe.g. at the terminal type "wget http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/sansapatcher/linux32x86/sansapatcher"
12:14:28linuxstbOr right-click and "save as" in your browser.
12:14:48gevaertsI might go, but I haven't decided yet
12:14:52antonkk ill have a try
12:14:55*linuxstb hopes he didn't offend Bagder
12:15:20*Bagder turns his head away and pretends to not see
12:15:25*petur reads about FOSDEM Beer Event :)
12:16:16peturhmmm that weekend is fully booked already here
12:16:25*gevaerts doesn't remember petur talking about anything but beer
12:16:50GodEaterhe doesn't much ;)
12:17:04GodEatermaybe he'll give a beer related talk at fosdem too ? :)
12:18:11Bagder"how to select what beer to drink with what free software project"
12:18:25Bagderan important issue
12:18:57*petur feels he needs to make an urgent change to the devcon08 page
12:19:32gevaertsActually, searching for "rockbox" on site:fosdem.org gives no results, while there are 1370 for "beer"
12:20:34*gevaerts sees petur's change
12:20:39Bagderhttp://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=rockbox&word2=beer
12:20:40petur:)
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12:21:52*petur walks to lunch
12:23:09GodEatervia the beer shop no doubt
12:24:08antonhas someone tryed to install doom @ a sansa, and is't ok to play ?
12:25:17Bagderbroom: the manuals are now updated
12:25:45Bagderit'll take a little while more until the download mirrors have synced the latest ones
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12:26:07gevaertsanton: sansa e200 or c200 ? It works on a c200, the framerate is ok, but the screen is too small and the button placement is so that your fingers will obscure the screen. No idea about the e200, but the screen is larger
12:26:31broomBagder: OK!
12:26:48gevaertsanton: so in summary it works, but you have to find out for yourself if it works well enough for you
12:27:26antonbut i have a e
12:27:29antone280
12:27:48*Bagder looks at anton
12:27:55antonill have a try i think
12:30:18*gevaerts notices that petur">http://www.linkedin.com/in/petur doesn't mention beer at all
12:31:08LinusNhe has to keep a clean profile :-)
12:31:13Nico_PjhMikeS: why did you disable writing?
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12:31:57*Nico_P has been playing around with the ipod and hasn't seen many issues (yet)
12:32:27Nico_Pthe only thing I see is that the disk is slow so buffering takes a long time (also because of the big buffer to fill)
12:33:07Nico_PI need to try the spinlock revert patch though
12:34:17GodEaternotices that linkedin doesn't check in this case that you're logged in / or a linkedin user to show petur's profile
12:34:36GodEaterbut if you search for someone, it requires you to login to see their profile
12:34:48BagderI think that's on purpose
12:34:58Bagderyou're supposed to be able to show your public profile like that
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12:35:45GodEaterit means you can type any old name in after the /in/ in the url though
12:35:45GodEaterand just randomly look at people
12:36:08Bagderyeps
12:36:21Bagderbut user's can switch off that
12:36:24Bagderusers
12:36:34GodEaterah ok
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12:39:58Bagderand the default public profile url seems to have a hex hash at the right end... :-)
12:40:15*Bagder stops the off topic for now
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12:46:13jhMikeSNico_P: just to be sure for the time being that nothing would cause me to have to reformat or anything
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12:51:18Nico_PjhMikeS: isn't it safe enough yet?
12:51:29*petur fails to find gevaerts on LinkedIn
12:54:57*gevaerts thinks that might be caused by him not having a profile there
12:55:38jhMikeSNico_P: probably
12:56:06jhMikeSjust enable it in ata-target.h
12:58:04 Quit J3TC- (".UPP.")
12:58:48Nico_PjhMikeS: what do I have to add?
13:00
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13:05:00jhMikeSNico_P: nothing
13:05:22Nico_Pwell I don't see how to enable it
13:06:01jhMikeSget rid of the ATA_OPTIMIZED_WRITING stuff
13:06:39jhMikeSthe copy_write_sectors in ata-imx31.c as well
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13:13:09amiconnjhMikeS: Why would you remove the optimised writing?
13:14:35jhMikeSthere is no writing at all in the optimized writing, just a stub
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13:20:16Nico_PjhMikeS: that's already disabled for the bootloader and it still wan't ale to write
13:20:27Nico_P*wasn't able
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13:23:18jhMikeSwhat happened?
13:23:49*jhMikeS didn't know the bootloader was being used
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13:27:15Nico_Pwrite returns -1
13:27:43Nico_Pmaybe there's something elese I'm doing wrong but it does work on my compo
13:27:47Nico_Pcomputer
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13:30:04peturBOFH time :)
13:30:10gevaertsZagor: I got bulk working with both directions on the same endpoint pair
13:30:28Zagoroh, great!
13:31:41Zagorso we should have mass-storage and logf simultaneously then. that's really awesome.
13:31:42*amiconn wonders what jhMikeS is referring to...
13:31:48gevaertsI did have to add some delays though, and I can't get serial and ms working at the same time, so I think my TD handling is still not right
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13:33:42jhMikeSamiconn: it used a stub for an "optimized" copy_write_sectors just to disable it
13:34:05amiconnWhere??
13:34:19jhMikeSata-imx31.c
13:34:23Zagorgevaerts: well at your speed I'm sure it's working before sunday ;-)
13:34:52amiconnAh, so some target specific hack
13:35:00amiconnNo wonder I was confused...
13:37:28*jhMikeS wonders how ata_write_sectors fails since only copy_write_sectors is disabled
13:38:19gevaertsZagor: it's bound to slow down a bit : the fast progress was due to finding that small packets work, and then doing the easy bits. What I'm doing now is slightly more complicated, with more subtle bugs...
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13:46:41gevaertsZagor: do you know if anyone actually reproduced the high-speed problems on anything other that sansa ?
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13:47:45Zagorgevaerts: I'm not sure. I know some people ran code on the ipods just to see the descriptors, but I don't know how much else they tested.
13:49:01Nico_PjhMikeS: here's the patch http://pastebin.ca/904955
13:50:45gevaertslinuxstb, GodEater: could you check if the EG_PORTSC1 |= PORTSCX_PORT_FORCE_FULL_SPEED
13:51:18gevaertsline in usb_drv_init() in usb-drv-pp502x.c isrequired on ipod ?
13:51:58*gevaerts always has trouble with pasting things from his editor. There's always a line ending sneaking in
13:52:58austriancoderwho is working on the d2 port?
13:55:05linuxstbaustriancoder: shotofadds
13:55:08*Nico_P leaves for class
13:55:28linuxstbgevaerts: Sorry, can't check anything now...
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13:55:36austriancoderlinuxstb: merci
13:55:42*jhMikeS is absorbing the patch
13:58:09pondlifeNicotine?
13:59:39*jhMikeS still gets that the old fashioned way :)
14:00
14:01:11peturbad habit
14:03:00gevaertslinuxstb: no hurry. I just want to check if this high speed is really a portal player issue, or something sansa-specific.
14:03:13jhMikeSit's my preferred bad habit, others have their own no doubt
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14:16:56AnarchitectHi everybody
14:17:43AnarchitectI've seem to run into a bit of trouble
14:18:43AnarchitectMy computer won't recognize my ipod anymore
14:19:27Anarchitectand on my ipod it says: Error: can't load rockbox.ipod.
14:19:29Anarchitectfile not found
14:20:02linuxstbHold MENU+SELECT to reboot, then immediately press and hold SELECT+PLAY
14:20:10Anarchitectright
14:20:12Anarchitecttried that
14:20:17Anarchitectbut it just goes to the 'recharging' logo
14:20:59Anarchitecthow long do i hold them?
14:21:02linuxstbIt should take you to Apple's emergency (black and white) disk mode screen - and you can then attach it to your PC.
14:21:13Anarchitectright
14:21:16*Anarchitect unplugs the ipod
14:21:20linuxstbUntil they do something...
14:21:38linuxstbi.e. hold MENU+SELECT until it resets, then immediately hold SELECT+PLAY until you see the disk mode screen
14:21:49Anarchitectnow it says 'OK to disconnect' (after I followed those instructions)
14:21:55linuxstbNow connect it.
14:22:06Anarchitectsweet
14:22:29AnarchitectThanks a bunch, it got it!
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14:42:14preglowhmm
14:42:20preglowdidn't people say flac now compresses as well as wavpack?
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14:50:13linuxstbI know the latest versions of flac compress better than the older ones, but I don't know if it's as good as wavpack.
14:55:29preglowdoesn't seem like it
14:55:36preglowwavpack -h still compresses better than flac -8 here
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14:59:15linuxstbIs -h the mode that's very CPU-intensive to decode? Or am I confusing that with something else?
15:00
15:00:12preglowit more intensive, but not most
15:00:31preglowthere's a -hh now, that david bryant quite simply says you should not use if you intend to decode on embedded targets
15:00:44preglowthough i suspect gigabeats don't really count...
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15:12:32AnarchitectSay, linuxstb, I was lookinag around the rockbox site and must have failed to find it, but how do I uninstall Rockbox?
15:13:37krazykitdepends on the target: the general one is to revert the bootloader and delete the .rockbox directory
15:14:10Anarchitectif by target you mean device, I'm jusing an Ipod
15:14:20AnarchitectHow does one revert te bootloader?
15:14:30LambdaCalculus37Anarchitect: Read the manual for your iPod. All the instructions are in it.
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15:14:51AnarchitectI didn't get a manual with it, but I'll see what there's to find online
15:15:08LambdaCalculus37Anarchitect: http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
15:15:18Anarchitectthanks!
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15:26:55*LinusN is controlling is ipod video using his remote (!) :-)
15:27:40GodEaterusing the OF ? :)
15:27:47LinusNhaha, of course not
15:28:00GodEaterand I thought your ipod video was at Nico_P's house now ? :)
15:28:07GodEaterif so, that's a hell of long cord....
15:28:09LinusNi have a 5G as well
15:28:13GodEaterah
15:28:25GodEaterso you have a working serial driver and stuff then ?
15:28:29LinusNyup
15:28:34GodEaterwell done that man!
15:28:41GodEateryou'll be the toast of the forums and no mistake
15:29:01LinusNneeds some cleanup, and i haven't yet managed to make it interrupt driven
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15:29:16GodEaterwhat sort of remote is it ?
15:29:22LinusNluckily the uart has a large fifo
15:29:23GodEatermy 5.5G didn't come with one
15:30:25*LambdaCalculus37 hands LinusN a Guinness for his hard work
15:30:58GodEaterI didn't even know you were working on it LinusN - you kept it very quiet
15:31:08dionoeaouh nice. do you have the remote with the FM radio ?
15:31:12dionoea+hi
15:32:03LinusNno, the fm radio remote seems hard to come by here
15:32:19LinusNi bought an el cheapo docking station with a cordless remote
15:32:43dionoeaok.
15:33:51LinusNhttp://www.teknikmagasinet.se/nydb/db.pl?template_file=db_stor.html&artnr=100275
15:35:11LinusNyes, i kept quiet because i didn't want people to expect anything, since i can't devote much time to rockbox nowadays
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15:42:18lubomirhello. what is the ceapest rockbox compatible player?
15:42:39preglowc200?
15:43:08Horschtnice one, LinusN!
15:43:35LinusNHorscht: thx
15:44:20lubomirthere is also no cheaper one that is not available any more on the market?
15:44:56LambdaCalculus37lubomir: Try looking on eBay. You may get a good deal on a Rockboxable player.
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15:45:17*LambdaCalculus37 remembers seeing some iPod minis for $30-$60 yesterday
15:45:20GodEaterThe Gigabeats can be had for cheap cheap cheap on ebay
15:45:27Anarchitethanks guys
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15:46:21*preglow sees gigabeat s is no longer on refurbdepot
15:46:43lubomirLambdaCalculus37, for what exactly should i search? I think it would be more cheaper when buing an player and flash then the firmware myself
15:47:35GodEaterlubomir: that's pretty much the only way to get rockbox on a player - there are very few on ebay which come with it pre-installed.
15:48:07LambdaCalculus37GodEater: Actually, I tend to see a lot of sellers of Archos JBRs that sell them with Rockbox flashed onto them already.
15:48:44GodEaterlubomir: so try hunting for "sansa c200" or "gigabeat F"
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15:49:16GodEaterLambdaCalculus37: I take it back then. In my *personal* experience I've never found a rockboxed already player on ebay ;)
15:49:17lubomirGodEater, is there a cheaper one then the c240 with 1gb for 42€?
15:49:24GodEaterlubomir: I doubt it
15:49:30gevaertslubomir: if you get a sansa, make sure to get a v1.
15:49:56LambdaCalculus37That may require asking the seller to look on the back of the Sansa for a "v2" mark.
15:50:01markunLambdaCalculus37: hi!
15:50:21gevaertsGodEater: I did a search for irivers yesterday. Of the four I found three had rockbox installed (one of them was broken though)
15:50:37gevaertsGodEater: Those were h120 or h140
15:50:46GodEatergevaerts: see my comment above about in my personal experience ;)
15:50:56*petur sees three iriver h3x0 and two h1x0 on ebay
15:51:09GodEaterI guess I tend to buy my players when RB is in it's infancy on them
15:51:28*gevaerts sees the comment
15:52:24LambdaCalculus37markun: Hey there!
15:52:45LambdaCalculus37petur: U.S. based or Europe-based deals?
15:52:56peturEU
15:53:02LambdaCalculus37Damn!
15:53:09peturdidn't check US
15:54:17*LambdaCalculus37 will check U.S.
15:55:30lubomirGodEater, the player should be as smal and lighweight as possible. it doesnt need much capacity. is there a cheaper one then the sansa c200 v1 series?
15:55:30peturthere's one...
15:55:34peturh320
15:56:10GodEaterthere isn't a player smaller, cheaper, and more lightweight than the c200 series that I'm aware of no
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16:00:02FrankOttoHello everybody. I just tried getting my CF-modded iriver H120 to run with the V7-pre bootloader and running rockbox from ROM...
16:00:21FrankOttowell, it's still giving ATA -80
16:00:39*petur not surprised
16:00:45FrankOttobut the splash screen comes up briefly at least
16:01:09FrankOttoand the error messages are different, so they probably come from a different code path
16:01:36FrankOttoi.e. not from the bootloader but from the rockbox binary itself
16:01:37peturI could release a blunt hack but I'd rather find out why it is going wrong
16:02:07peturyes, the main binary does the same check but has its own print code
16:02:09FrankOttoI have a screen of debug info, but I'm not sure if this is helpful
16:02:11lubomirGodEater, ipod nano 1gen is also ok? There are also some cheap ones in ebay. Are there other player with that smal and lighweight size that work with rockbox?
16:02:26peturFrankOtto: it is not...
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16:02:55FrankOttopetur: it's lots of GPIO values, I doubt they help with ATA debugging
16:03:51LambdaCalculus37libomir: Yes, they do!
16:04:02LambdaCalculus37Make absolutely sure it's a 1st Gen, though!
16:04:26FrankOttoI guess the splash screen comes from the rockbox, not from the bootloader, right?
16:04:39peturyes
16:04:59FrankOttothat's good, at least rockbox starts...
16:05:29lubomirhm,okay. i saw that the sandisk is the half of the cost from an used ipod nano. i will get the sandisk then
16:05:30lubomirthanks
16:05:36FrankOtto... and from that point on it gets pretty safe to hack it, because with the V7 bootloader I can actually have *two* rockbox versions in ROM
16:06:08FrankOttoone is executed from ROM itself, the other is loaded into RAM and executed there
16:06:30peturFrankOtto: now you can disable ata_perform_sleep() and set_features() and it should boot
16:06:48FrankOttopetur: that's what I'll try next
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16:07:00peturThere's also some call at shutdown that hangs a few seconds
16:07:10peturhaven't checked which
16:07:46FrankOttothe nice thing is that I won't have to modify the bootloader now, a modified rockbox should do the trick
16:08:48FrankOttook, then I'm off to read some docs on how to *build* my own rockbox :)
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16:12:35lubomiris rockbox working on all c200/e200 player? There are c240,c250,e250,e260,e270 and e280
16:13:48scorche|wall of the v1...none that are v2
16:14:26LambdaCalculus37That's why I said to ask the seller to look for a "v2" logo on the back of the Sansa before you bid/buy it.
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16:17:06lubomirah, i see that the only difference between the different model numbers is the flash size. since how long is there version 2? So when i see someone who tells that he owns the player since 1 year or so, i could be shure that that is v1 and not v2
16:17:48scorche|wthe v2 has been out for a few months
16:18:15scorche|wso yes...if he says a year, then you should be fine
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16:20:22lubomirthanks scorche|w
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17:13:59*pondlife wonders why tracks 3 and 10 are getting such a bad reputation... :)
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17:26:58*gevaerts is stopping paid work for this week. Only rockbox work from now on...
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17:30:44soapWhy couldn't you have said such golden words on Monday? ;)
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17:36:19Nico_PjhMikeS: ping
17:40:37FrankOttofor all CF-modders: I can confirm that petur's hack around the "ATA -80" issue also works on an iriver H120 with a Transcend-133x card
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17:57:17markunFrankOtto: nice. Now we just have to find out how to fix it.
17:57:34toffe82Nico_P: just one thought about the cabbie wps version 2, why this banner with now playing ? we are in the now playing screen so why mention it again?
17:59:49Nico_Ptoffe82: that's not my idea
17:59:51FrankOttomarkun: right. Somehow my CF card (and also petur's) don't confirm fully to spec and get confused by the power management/sleeping.
18:00
18:00:05toffe82Nico_P: :)
18:00:06Nico_Pbut I like actually like it
18:00:46markunFrankOtto: but since the cards work with the original firmwares for the iriver and apple players I assume we can detect this in some way.
18:00:48toffe82I like the wps also but this banner is not necessary , I would prefer to see the time
18:01:38FrankOttomarkun: unfortunately I have absolutely no knowledge about ATA internals :(
18:01:53markunsomeone will figure it out
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18:02:25toffe82Nico_P: there is a forum to discuss this ?
18:02:36markuntoffe82: would you be interested in attending devcon2008? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DevCon2008
18:02:54Nico_Ptoffe82: yes, the default wps contest thread
18:03:00toffe82markun: yes I was looking at it this morning
18:03:30toffe82I should be in France in june/july
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18:12:51LambdaCalculus37My girlfriend has asked me to sign her onto the wiki, but she needs write permission. Anyone mind while I handle that?
18:13:15markunLambdaCalculus37: what do you mean?
18:13:24rasherLambdaCalculus37: Unless your girlfriend is a penis-enlargement spammer, then no
18:13:37LambdaCalculus37rasher: She's the genuine article. Ask markun.
18:14:12markunLambdaCalculus37: you don't really need to ask it. It's only to not alowed for bots to get write permission.
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18:14:47LambdaCalculus37markun: No worries.
18:15:27*markun should read more carefully before pressing enter
18:15:33*LambdaCalculus37 would never, ever, ever give a bot write permission on the wiki
18:15:56markun;)
18:16:28markununless he passes the turing test.. :)
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18:19:22*gevaertsbot wants write permission
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18:31:06markungevaerts: :)
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18:39:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:01:47*gevaerts thinks two hours can't be enough for petur to really have enjoyed that beer
19:02:59 Join lymeca_ [0] (i=lymeca@unaffiliated/lymeca)
19:03:08lymeca_I have a 30GB 4th gen video that's HFS+ formatted
19:03:09FrankOttopetur: your hack works for me too :)
19:03:20lymeca_I need it to be FAT32 formatted but there's no image for that on the wiki
19:03:22lymeca_http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodConversionToFAT32
19:03:30lymeca_There's just 30GB video parititons
19:04:27peturnice
19:04:40linuxstblymeca_: Are you on a Mac or Linux/
19:04:45lymeca_Linux
19:04:51peturbbl (dinner)
19:05:24linuxstbThen life is slightly easier. You can just use "fdisk" to create a suitable partition table.
19:05:33lymeca_Is there no partition table for 30GB 4th gen?
19:05:34lymeca_aye okay
19:05:52lymeca_fdisk /dev/sdc
19:06:00lymeca_Now what?
19:06:13lymeca_o create a new empty DOS partition table
19:06:13linuxstblymeca_: Give me a moment, and I'll pastebin what my 60GB ipod Color looks like.
19:07:59linuxstblymeca_: http://www.pastebin.ca/905297 - create a partition table that looks like that (but the second (FAT32) partition will be smaller)
19:08:36linuxstblymeca_: The first partition needs to be around 40MB.
19:08:47lymeca_linuxstb: When I create the first one what FS type to I tell fdisk?
19:08:56lymeca_File system type (default ext2):
19:08:56linuxstbType "0"
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19:09:02linuxstb(zero)
19:09:07lymeca_didn't work
19:09:15linuxstbAre you using "fdisk" ?
19:09:25lymeca_File system type (default ext2): 0
19:09:25lymeca_File system type (default ext2):
19:09:27lymeca_GNU Fdisk 1.0
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19:10:20linuxstbThat seems different to my fdisk...
19:11:35*gevaerts didn't know there is a GNU fdisk
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19:11:48linuxstbDo you have "gfdisk" or "lfdisk" ?
19:12:33lymeca_linuxstb: I have both
19:13:21lymeca_this is what I have now
19:13:21lymeca_/dev/sdc1 1 40 321268 83 Linux
19:13:21lymeca_/dev/sdc2 41 3647 28965195 c FAT32 LBA
19:13:37linuxstbDo they look like this when you run them? http://www.pastebin.ca/905331 (I typed the "p" command)
19:14:53lymeca_Got it!
19:14:58lymeca_I switched the first one to be type 0
19:15:22linuxstbBetter change the second to "b" - I'm not 100% sure "c" is supported by the Rockbox install tools.
19:15:33linuxstb(Apple use "b")
19:15:53linuxstbBut how big is your first partition?
19:16:14lymeca_40MB?
19:16:18linuxstbIt looks like 40 cylinders, rather than 40MB...
19:16:19lymeca_I just ran ipodpatcher
19:16:22lymeca_ohh
19:16:24lymeca_maybe
19:16:40lymeca_I just installed rockbox and some music copied over to the FAT32
19:16:47lymeca_I'll reboot the device and see if it worked
19:17:48lymeca_yay!
19:17:48lymeca_=D
19:18:13lymeca_I have a new 4th gen!
19:18:18lymeca_I've never owned a colour before.
19:18:27lymeca_Someone gave it to me ebcause it was "broken"
19:18:36lymeca_I opened it and upnplugged the HDD and plugged it back in
19:18:43lymeca_and now it works with Rockbox!
19:18:56gevaertslymeca_: you might still want to shrink that first partition a bit. You're losing out on 280 entire megabytes !
19:19:23 Quit JdGordon|w ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
19:19:28lymeca_Should I redo the whole thing?
19:19:29lymeca_I guess...
19:19:46gevaertsYou don't really have to, but now it's just wasted space
19:20:22lymeca_How many cylinders do I want the first partition to be?
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19:20:35linuxstb5
19:20:51linuxstbPartition 1 should be from 1-5, and partition 2 from 6-end
19:22:11lymeca_dev/sdc1 1 6 48163 0 Empty
19:22:11lymeca_/dev/sdc2 7 3647 29238300 b FAT32
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19:23:45Horschtisn't the ipod OF and diskmode stored in partition 1?
19:23:56lymeca_naw
19:24:08lymeca_well OF maybe
19:24:13lymeca_diskmode is not on the HDD
19:24:21lymeca_IIRC
19:24:22Horschtah, ok
19:24:37lymeca_I don't care about OF
19:25:11LambdaCalculus37Disk Mode is not on the HDD, so you're correct, lymeca_.
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19:31:34*gevaerts thinks he has done everything correctly, but his sansa thinks not...
19:32:05BigBambiThe Sansa is clearly wrong. Tell it more firmly
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19:35:27gevaertsBigBambi: I'll try. Any suggestions on the specific words I should use ?
19:36:21krazykitstrong words, preferably.
19:36:51BigBambigevaerts: You could try being firm but fair - "Look, I know this is new for you, but we really have to work together on this one. I need to you to fricking work on this one, OK? Thanks"
19:37:20*gevaerts was hoping for some words that the compiler would also accept
19:38:42rashergevaerts: You just need to write a compiler for human language first.
19:41:13preglowwhat it if becomes offended?
19:41:18preglowi think gcc is hard enough to work with as it is
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19:42:23gevaertsIt currently gets offended and stops listening to me. I then have to be angry for 15 seconds or more for it to power of
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19:45:51preglowahh, but that's just the sansa, imagine what hell life would be if _gcc_ took a disliking to you :)
19:46:28BigBambipreglow: You mean it doesn't at the moment?
19:46:59scorche|wpreglow: yeah...i think it pretty much loathes all humankind
19:47:18preglowyou are right, of course
19:47:33preglowthis might be why the gcc devs themselves are so reluctant to tinker on it
19:48:03scorche|wor why they are all named Dave?
19:48:37BigBambiIt is linuxstb's fault?
19:50:06scorche|wBowman...not Chapman
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20:10:03*gevaerts wants unbuffered real-time debugging output that also works when there is a bug in an interrupt handler
20:10:19preglowhaha
20:10:25preglowthen you need jtag
20:10:41preglowmost things tend to break up when interrupt handlers don't work
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20:11:35FrankOttopetur: I have some info on the shutdown issue
20:11:49*petur listens
20:11:49gevaertspreglow: it's not funny :(
20:12:26amiconnpetur: Does that CF card work in the OF?
20:12:32peturnope
20:12:40peturcheck HDD
20:13:01FrankOttopetur: by disabling ata_perform_sleep, the shutdown_hw() routine ends up in an endless loop: while(ata_disk_is_active()) ...
20:13:13peturah
20:13:36peturtold you it was a hack - you had to make a patch of it and publish it ;)
20:13:36FrankOttoeventually, some other thread forces the shutdown
20:14:14FrankOttoi noticed there is a loud noise on the forced shutdown (on the headphones), do you get that too?
20:14:29peturnot using headphones wile testing
20:14:35amiconnThere's a forced shutdown as a safety measure, in case some thread doesn't want to finish
20:14:50FrankOttohey, i marked the patch as experimental ;)
20:15:23FrankOttoi guess it's because we miss the call to audiohw_close() in shutdown_hw()
20:15:40FrankOttowe never get there because of the loop
20:15:42amiconnThat patch is clearly a hack; it would be useful to try and track down *why* the card doesn't like certain commands
20:15:52amiconnI still think it's timing...
20:16:14 Quit JdGordon|w ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
20:16:22peturamiconn: that is my intent
20:16:24amiconnThat would be about my next field of experimentation if I were interested in putting a CF card in
20:17:15scorche|wamiconn: could you put your name down on http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DevCon2008 please?
20:17:16amiconnI will eventually do this with my H10 - but ata timing setup on PP needs further RE first, while coldfire ata is documented...
20:17:50FrankOttoAre there some ATA status registers that would help, after the failing ATA commands?
20:18:17amiconnscorche: I did not do so yet on purpose - I wanted to check whether I could offer free hosting first.
20:18:54scorche|wamiconn: alright...you could always put a "checking on ___ in progress" as well
20:19:11amiconnhmm
20:19:44*petur wonders if pixelma is going too
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20:20:07scorche|wpetur: yeah...i am just asking as names come up at the moment
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20:20:53pixelmamaybe, if it isn't too far away/expensiva/a hassle to get to the place. Already thought about putting my name into the list...
20:20:59southernryo
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20:24:00scorche|wpixelma: it is my opinion that everyone who is even thinking about going should be on the list at least with a "thinking about it...very tentative" or some such comment
20:24:36pixelmayes, will do
20:24:49FrankOttodoes some ATA guru now what "IORDY support" is?
20:25:44 Quit JdGordon|w ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
20:26:01FrankOttoi'm comparing the debug disk info between the HD and the CF; differences are: CF says "read-ahead unsupported" and "IORDY support: no"
20:26:15southernrdoes rockbox do anything about the 2 hour recording limit on 5th gen ipods?
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20:27:41rashersouthernr: Check the manual. There are no artificial limits on recording
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20:28:03petursouthernr: if recording is supported, then it is unlimited until disk full or battery empty. New file every 2GB without sample loss
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20:30:03peturamiconn: is the ata spec in our wiki or shall I google for it?
20:30:08*Llorean is going to get a new Passport this week, just in case it ends up international.
20:30:42amiconnI will certainly try to attend devcon even if it's outside europe, but explicitly excluding the US
20:31:10peturiceland!
20:31:41amiconnWhy not? Apart from that, iceland is counted as part of europe afaik
20:31:47 Quit BitTorment (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:31:54peturand it is between US and EU
20:32:10petura bit expensive on food and very expensive on drinks
20:32:20peturbut very relaxed customs :)
20:32:35FrankOttohmm... i just notice that the original ata_perform_sleep() still sets sleeping=true even if the ATA command fails. isn't that a bug?
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20:33:33amiconnpetur: It is not because of the distance... could even imagine having devcon in .au
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20:34:08peturamiconn: expensive 24h trip though...
20:34:54JdGordon|wAU!
20:35:17peturamiconn: where do the values for set_features come from ( { 83, 3, 0x05, 0x80 } )? some spec?
20:36:12 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
20:36:40amiconnCheck the struct members...
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20:37:11*petur goes hunting for some spec
20:38:00amiconnThat comes down to: Check word 83, bit 3. If bit is set, send SET_FEATURES command 0x05 value 0x80
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20:38:18amiconnword == identify info word
20:38:35peturI got that far, it is the "command 0x05 value 0x80" I miss doc for
20:38:53amiconnSee the SET_FEATURES command
20:39:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:39:30amiconn0x05 is 'enable advanced power management'
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20:40:08amiconn0x80 is the value for that power management. Allowed range is 0x01..0xfe
20:40:18amiconn(lowest..highest)
20:40:45amiconnWe use 0x80 and not 0x01 because values below 0x80 allow the disk to decide itself when to spin down & park
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20:41:22peturah, found it in the CF spec
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20:47:57FrankOttopetur: you had crashes until you disabled ata_perform_sleep(), right?
20:48:24peturnot really crashes, just hanging and no more reading afterwards
20:48:33peturie empty dirs
20:48:36FrankOttoah
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20:48:58FrankOttoI have modified ata_perform_sleep, so that it only sets sleeping=true if the ATA command succeeds
20:49:13FrankOttowith this, shutdown works normal
20:49:35FrankOttoso far, playing works too, no crashes/hangs yet, but...
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20:50:10FrankOtto... at the moment where the disk would spin down (have set it to 5 seconds), the disk access LED comes on, and stays on :-/
20:50:38FrankOttothe adapter itself has another LED, which however stays off.
20:50:54FrankOttostill the constantly on LED worries me...
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20:52:05FrankOttowell, if I do a real disk access, the LED turns off, but comes back on after 5s.
20:53:48FrankOttopetur: how soon did the hanging occur in your case?
20:54:13peturwhen the sleep command was given I'd say
20:54:54FrankOttoaha. well it survives that now, apart from the LED issue
20:55:01amiconnThat's an important question I think - where does it hang exactly, and why
20:55:37FrankOttoamiconn: i still feel that the original behavior of perform_ata_sleep is buggy
20:55:58FrankOttoi don't think it should set sleeping=true even if the ATA command fails
20:56:41FrankOttoi guess that would cause problems, as then the driver thinks the disk is sleeping while it actually isn't.
20:57:07amiconnVery possible
20:57:31amiconnDid you check whether the card states that it supports the power management feature set?
20:57:59peturit does
20:57:59FrankOttoyes, it says so. (debug info)
20:58:26petur83 = 400C
20:58:29FrankOttoalso, if it didn't say so, we wouldn't even try the set-features call which eventually results in ATA error -80
20:58:32amiconnIdentify info word 82 bit 3
20:58:48amiconnNot to confuse with the _advanced_ power management feature set
20:58:56petur82 = 7008
20:59:05amiconnAha, hmm
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20:59:17amiconnThen I don't understand why CMD_SLEEP should fail
20:59:31amiconnWould be interesting to check the return values of that
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21:00
21:00:09FrankOttoright. at least CMD SLEEP seems to have the effect to turn the LED on :)
21:00:44amiconnOf course, as it's an ata command after all
21:01:12FrankOttoand the LED should turn off when the command completes, right?
21:01:47amiconnThis can be observed on any hdd target with a real led - the led is lit during disk activity, then switches off, and when the rockbox disk timeout hits, comes on again for a short time because of the sleep command
21:02:12amiconnTargets where you can observe this: Archos Player, Archos recorders, Iriver H1x0
21:02:44amiconnThe soft led in the status bar on other targets is too slow to take notice
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21:03:24FrankOttoamiconn: so what does a constantly on LED mean? that somethings is sending ATA commands all the time?
21:04:33amiconnMay be a hung command, or an error condition that's not acknowleedged
21:04:43FrankOttoi see
21:04:57amiconnThat's why I suggested checking return values (of the command, i.e. in the ata registers)
21:05:25*amiconn wonders once more why standards aren't even self-consistent
21:05:42FrankOttodo you know how to do that? printing out the ata registers, i mean.
21:06:27amiconnThe ata standard defines the power management feature set as mandatory, yet has a bit for checking whether it's supported, as well as some error returns (e.g. from CMD_SLEEP and CMD_STANDBY) telling that it's not supported
21:06:29peturamiconn: I tried 0x80, 0x01 and 0xFE for command 0x05 and they all fail
21:07:33 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
21:08:14peturamiconn: should I also dump all identify regs?
21:08:39amiconnI have a patch that adds an item to dump the identify_info array to disk
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21:08:51amiconn*an item *to the debug menu*
21:08:56 Quit miepchen^schlaf ("Verlassend")
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21:09:07FrankOttooops, i have to recharge my iriver. be back later.
21:09:33amiconnamiconn.dyndns.org/dump_identify_info.diff">http://amiconn.dyndns.org/dump_identify_info.diff
21:10:07amiconn(rather trivial stuff in fact)
21:10:33 Quit FrankOtto ("Leaving")
21:10:39amiconnA patched tree won't compile for Sansa or Ondio, btw
21:11:02 Join drclanc [0] (n=507b0fee@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7d924ac064ab46a4)
21:11:30drclancHi i have a question
21:12:06bluebrotherthat's nice.
21:12:30drclancCan I run rockbox on a M:robe
21:12:47bluebrotherno. Not yet.
21:12:59JdGordon|wyou can.. but you want get very far without tripping over
21:13:09JdGordon|w.. they arnt really designed as a running surface
21:13:29bluebrotherwell, you can hack it. You can't run it in terms of "use it as user".
21:13:42*BigBambi summarises - not easily unless you are a dev, or comfortable in hacking it
21:13:48drclancWhat would it change, if I can rockbox
21:13:58BigBambiEverything
21:14:06BigBambiRockbox is a replacement firmware
21:14:19BigBambicheck www.rockbox.org for details of what it brings
21:14:31amiconnAlso, define m:robe
21:14:32 Join Xerion [0] (i=xerion@cp198589-d.landg1.lb.home.nl)
21:14:33drclancok thanks....
21:14:38bluebrotherwe have a nice wiki page WhyRockbox which explains it a bit.
21:14:41drclancMrobe 500
21:14:46JdGordon|wbluebrother: have you had any thoughts on the xml? or has the idea sort of died?
21:15:04bluebrotherI haven't had too much time the last days for thinking about it.
21:15:15JdGordon|wdrclanc: yes, you can run rockbox with a bit of trickery.. but you cant play music yet
21:15:29bluebrotherI still like the idea of an editor, but I also think there are good reasons not to include one in rbutil
21:16:44JdGordon|w... sticking it on the web could solve the "force a version" problem, it could grab the correct xml version striaght f svn :)
21:17:22bluebrotherthat could also be done by rbutil −− we're getting a bunch of info files already.
21:17:43JdGordon|wok cool, then that should shut up the ney sayers :p
21:18:31drclancI am asking because the original Firmware is very bad programmed and Linux very slow
21:18:58peturamiconn: petur.homedns.org:8080/identify_info.bin">http://petur.homedns.org:8080/identify_info.bin
21:19:03Lloreanbluebrother: I'm curious why you think it shouldn't be in RBUtil (I wouldn't mind a separate app, or web based, but I like the idea of a way to PC-side edit the cfg)
21:19:25bluebrotherwe of course might have an issue here: if a user installs RB and say, wants to use only the config editor like 3 months later build and current xml wouldn't match anymore.
21:19:37bluebrotherwe could of course install the xml alongside the build
21:20:01JdGordon|wbluebrother: no.. grab it from http://svn.rockbox.org/....
21:20:04bluebrotherLlorean: well, I'm not completely sure if it really is a good idea to put a complete config editor into rbutil.
21:20:09JdGordon|wyou can get the exact svn version
21:20:18linuxstbbluebrother: That would make more sense to me.
21:20:29bluebrotherotoh, I'd kinda think that the challenge would be fun ;-)
21:20:34*petur discovers he doesn't have a hex editor on his linux laptop :/
21:20:37linuxstbJdGordon|w: What about people (like most of us...) who compile their own builds?
21:20:40Lloreanbluebrother: To address that, I think the "xml" should be made by the build system, and RBUtil should read it from the DAP, not the internet
21:20:51LloreanSo it's always relevant to the specific build, and MORE importantly, to target-specific features
21:20:55drclancjdGordon|w: what kind of trickery?
21:20:59JdGordon|wlinuxstb: it would grab the svn version it was patched against
21:21:00bluebrotherJdGordon|w: good point, but storing it on the player has the advantage that you don't need net to use the editor
21:21:11linuxstbJdGordon|w: And if the patch changed the settings code?
21:21:17JdGordon|wthen your boned :p
21:21:24JdGordon|wbluebrother: ?
21:21:27bluebrotherpetur: try xxd from vim ;-)
21:21:46JdGordon|wdrclanc: have you patched the mrobe firmware to run linux on it?
21:21:57drclancyes
21:22:01bluebrotherwe don't support patched builds anyway ;-)
21:22:13JdGordon|wok, then goto the wiki there should be install instructions..
21:22:14*amiconn really wonders about that settings editor idea
21:22:15bluebrotherbut I think it would be better to install the xml on the player.
21:22:21JdGordon|wbut its really not worth the effort
21:22:22drclancOK! THANKS!
21:22:23 Quit southernr ("Bye bye")
21:22:47BigBambiThe settings editor is especially useful whilst we have 'hidden' settings
21:23:15 Quit Xerion (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:23:17JdGordon|wamiconn: we know your not going to use it.. so please, just sshh... it doesnt effect the rockbox bin at all, its 100% rbutil..
21:23:26*linuxstb wouldn't mind rbutil being able to edit settings, as long as didn't mean maintaining two independent files defining them
21:23:41amiconnIt does affect rockbox development though...
21:23:45bluebrotheryep, the xml would need to be auto-created.
21:23:46JdGordon|wyour over estimating the work needed to keep them in sync
21:23:58linuxstbJdGordon|w: Just think of FILES...
21:24:08linuxstbDead easy, but everyone forgets it...
21:24:14JdGordon|wyes, true
21:24:20petureffort in the wrong direction imho
21:24:26bluebrotheramiconn: in what way would that affect core development?
21:24:37linuxstbpetur: I agree with that, but people do what they want...
21:24:41amiconnIt detracts developers
21:24:42Lloreanlinuxstb: Whatever creates the definition file should do it from the source automatically, hopefully
21:24:52*petur agrees with amiconn
21:24:56bluebrotherdevs like me? ;-)
21:25:04JdGordon|wlinuxstb: the solution to both is having a svn commit prehook which checks to make sure FILES/settings.xml is updated with the commit
21:25:24bluebrothercreating the definition would _need_ to be done automatically. I don't consider anything else a feasible solution.
21:25:49JdGordon|wbluebrother: have you ever opened settings_list.c? I dare you to write a parser for it...
21:25:57JdGordon|wits NASTY@
21:26:03linuxstbJdGordon|w: How would it know that the settings xml needed updating? e.g. if #defines somewhere in firmware/ have changed, or if a change to a settings file didn't in fact change the xml?
21:26:09bluebrotherdidn't you create that? ;-)
21:26:24Lloreanlinuxstb: The settings XML needs to be target specific anyway, so it should just update every build methinks
21:26:51JdGordon|wlinuxstb: well we have that issue now anyway
21:27:06JdGordon|wLlorean: it doesnt.. it just needs to handle mutliple targets
21:27:12JdGordon|wwhich shouldnt be too difficult
21:27:23linuxstbJdGordon|w: What issue? There's no settings xml now...
21:27:50JdGordon|wchanging values in one place and not updating settings_list.c or settings.h'
21:27:55JdGordon|wits happened before..
21:28:06linuxstbWhy would that be needed?
21:28:10*petur thinks the devs of GHex are braindead. Who presents hex data in 17 columns?
21:28:33bluebrotherthat sounds really braindead.
21:28:34*JdGordon|w thinks one of us is confused
21:28:49LloreanJdGordon|w: Well it needs to have different ranges for different targets, at least.
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21:29:40bluebrotherthere are two options: make a big file holding all values and use some mechanism to figure the correct values. Or use target-specific files
21:29:57JdGordon|wthe first is the only viable one imo
21:30:00bluebrotherthinking about it I'm getting the impression that target-specific files would be easier.
21:30:28bluebrotherthat file would need to get autocreated. That could be done during build, similar to rockbox-info.txt
21:30:40JdGordon|wnot easily...
21:30:45bluebrotherthat way a build zip would also always include a matching xml
21:30:52LloreanI like target specific files. They can be included on the device, for outdated builds to be usable with the system. But that's me.
21:31:02Lloreanbluebrother: During build is kinda "auto-created" (and how I see it working) :-P
21:31:16bluebrotherwell, IMO an autogeneration-mechanism is really needed.
21:31:33bluebrotherLlorean: ;-)
21:31:38peturthey would have to be on the device for this stuff to be usable imho
21:31:44LloreanAbsolutely
21:31:49*JdGordon|w disagrees
21:32:02amiconnpetur: That card reports to comply to ata-4 ...
21:32:06LloreanThe other advantage is that if there's an on-device file describing the settings ranges, if someone decide to make a Music Management program, it has access to this data too.
21:32:25drclancJdGordon|w: I found MrobLoad but how can I use it
21:32:34drclancthere is no introduction
21:32:36JdGordon|wi dont remember
21:32:41amiconnOur driver was written based on the ata-5 standard afaik
21:32:59JdGordon|wdrclanc: just forget about rockbox untill its actaully working on the mr500
21:33:27bluebrotherhmm, when was the "charge during usb" setting introduced for the Ipods? Never seen that before.
21:33:29drclancJdGordon|w: ok but only one question: is it then possible to play videos
21:33:32JdGordon|w_if_ we can wrestle gcc into giving us something parseable then autogenning and putting on the tartget would be workabel
21:33:36JdGordon|wno
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21:33:40drclancok
21:33:49JdGordon|wno sound, so no video
21:34:02*petur spots a new CF spec online
21:34:28drclancthanks for the support
21:34:45rasherLlorean: and it could be used for context sensitive help in Rockbox as well
21:34:56Lloreanrasher: Possibly
21:35:03amiconnHmm, but the mini's microdrive also reports ata-4 only, and it works with our driver
21:35:16JdGordon|wcan someone run settings_list.c through the cpp/gcc thing and dump its output?
21:35:22bluebrotherrasher: nice idea −− but wouldn't that require manual work (i.e. adding the strings somewhere)?
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21:36:03*JdGordon|w still hugely against context sensitve help
21:36:24rasherbluebrother: Depends what kind of info the file includes (some sort of memory address or ID or something perhaps?)
21:36:30LloreanJdGordon|w: I think a help plugin, launchable from the context menu, wouldn't be particularly bad.
21:36:49amiconnI also don't like the idea of context sensitive help
21:36:56peturamiconn: this is the CF spec I use(d), just is the newer one, I had 4.0: petur.homedns.org:8080/cfspc4_1.pdf">http://petur.homedns.org:8080/cfspc4_1.pdf
21:36:57rasherWhat's *bad* about it?
21:37:04JdGordon|wno transaltion for one thing
21:37:13rasherStill better than nothing..
21:37:21amiconnOur targets are embedded systems.
21:37:27JdGordon|wbetter than the manual?!
21:37:42rasherJdGordon|w: As I've explained a hundred times, users don't carry a printed manual everywhere they go
21:37:43amiconnThere's always the manual
21:37:52bluebrothera plugins sounds like a nice idea to me. But to be really useable we would need to have translation support for plugins first.
21:38:24bluebrotherrasher: well, Rockbox should be easy enough to use that you won't need a manual for daily use.
21:38:30LloreanI like the idea of as useful a help system as we can manage while impacting the core as little as possible, which is why I'm in favour of pluginizing the help if possible
21:38:34amiconnThe manual could be included in the distribution, in a suitable format to be readable on the device
21:38:37rasherbluebrother: which context sensitive help would help achieve...
21:38:42Lloreanbluebrother: We don't have translations of the manual yet, anyway
21:39:10bluebrotherindeed, but that wouldn't be doable. Unless we get a team of translators.
21:39:14Lloreanamiconn: And if it's in a plugin, why not let the plugin accept index strings of some sort, as parameters. Then let the UI pass them from a "Help" option in the context menu?
21:39:29rasheramiconn: Our targets may be embedded systems, but what does that have to do with anything? They're fully capable of loading text from the disk and displaying that. How is that an argument?
21:39:31Lloreanbluebrother: Then why do plugins need translations for a translated manual? ;)
21:40:04bluebrotherrasher: yes, but if we want to call Rockbox user-friendly the daily functionality should be useable without looking into some manual (or using some online help)
21:40:09amiconnrasher: Doing that explicitly, by means of a plugin is no problem
21:40:21rasheramiconn: Then we agree.
21:40:35*Llorean throws a party.
21:40:35amiconnThen it doesn't use additional resources when not in use
21:40:47amiconnBut context sensitive help would need hooks in the core
21:40:55pixelmaif someone things our manual should be put on the device in one way or the other, could he/she try to help out getting it more up to date, please? ;)
21:40:56amiconn...and buffer ram for the text
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21:41:16Lloreanamiconn: How much would be needed just to pass a string as a parameter and launch the plugin?
21:41:43LloreanBasically, "Open with..." type operation on menu items.
21:41:50rasherbluebrother: sure, but that doesn't mean context-sensitive help or manual-on-device won't make things even easier
21:42:00bluebrotherright.
21:42:07amiconn(1) that would be needed everywhere you want to provide help. (2) Doing it that way would be even worse than making it more integrated
21:42:08rasher"We'd like to pretend there's nothing to be confused about" is a poor argument
21:42:21amiconnIt would cause a spinup on *every* displayed help text
21:42:28JdGordon|wwe could probably very easily pass the ID of the setting into the plugin
21:42:28Lloreanamiconn: Why's that a problem?
21:42:33bluebrotherhmm, how about adding the manual as txt to the device and then add a new "Manual" entry to the plugins menu that launches the text viewer opening that file?
21:42:34JdGordon|wvery, very easily
21:42:39amiconnBecause it costs lots of battery power
21:42:45Lloreanamiconn: If people rarely need help, it's not bad. If people need help often, they should read the manual. :)
21:42:48rasheramiconn: so what, the user asked for help
21:43:14rasherI don't think he'll be mortified to learn that it costs a tiny amount of power
21:43:22*Llorean agrees
21:43:29bluebrotherLlorean: well, if users need help often they should read the manual ;-)
21:43:32JdGordon|wsomeone send settings_list.c through cpp/gcc so it dumps the output like it does with features.txt and paste it please....
21:43:34LloreanI dislike unnecessary spinups, but in this case, I think it's better than wasting the RAM.
21:43:57amiconnLlorean: I think we should do neither, and ditch the idea of context sensitive help
21:44:00pixelmabluebrother: got a "IllInstr" or something like that recently trying to open a too long text file (deutsch.lang) in Rockbox (on Ondio)
21:44:37bluebrothersomething we should consider ... people who need much help won't read an online help. Those kind of people usually don't read the manual as well ...
21:44:43rasheramiconn: What is your argument though? The spinup is a non-issue, seriuosly. Everything the user does costs battery power..
21:44:44amiconnBtw, there would be quite some delay as well (on hdd targets)
21:44:45bluebrotherpixelma: urgh. Sounds like a bug to me ;-)
21:45:05rasheramiconn: again, the user asked for something, I don't think he'll find it unreasonable that it takes a bit to fetch the info
21:45:12JdGordon|wamiconn: noone is suggesting automatic context help.. it would be with a button press
21:45:27scorche|wdo we have enough room for more buttons?
21:45:33rasherJdGordon|w: actually, I was... but I've mostly abandoned the idea
21:45:36scorche|ws/buttons/button actions/
21:45:48JdGordon|wwe do in the setting screens
21:45:50pixelmabluebrother: could be a problem with the manual in text form too (well yes, currently) but I'm not sure, you'll have fun reading it in one txt anyways...
21:45:50*amiconn wonders how JdGordon will magiaclly make additional buttons appear
21:45:50rasherscorche|w: Not really, but we do have room in the context-menu
21:45:57JdGordon|wevery target has at least one spare one
21:46:06Lloreanscorche|w: That's why i was suggesting just making it an option in the context menu
21:46:15amiconnrasher: The issue is spinups or ram cost, plus binsize, plus delay. And rockbox isn't so cryptic that you can't get by without *context sensitive* help
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21:46:40amiconnSo far I haven't seen any portable device that offers context sensitive help, and I think that's for a reason
21:46:45amiconnA good reason as well
21:46:46preglowJdGordon|w: oh? what button would it be on h120 for example?
21:46:51JdGordon|wso we shouldnt innovate?
21:46:53rasheramiconn: Ever seen a Nokia phone?
21:47:05amiconnyes
21:47:08preglowmy sony mobile also does it
21:47:17JdGordon|wpreglow: ion the setting screen the usual conext button is not used
21:47:23Lloreanamiconn: We can eliminate most of the RAM cost and Binsize by making it a plugin. Spinups and battery life I think people can deal with if they need it badly.
21:47:29pixelmaJdGordon|w: I don't believe your spare button statement
21:47:41preglowand this is one example where i would not mind functionality being in a plugin...
21:47:53JdGordon|wpixelma: see my answert to preglow
21:47:54amiconnYou would still need the hooks
21:48:01JdGordon|wthe hooks are tiny
21:48:03LloreanBut they could be fairly minimal
21:48:10bluebrotherJdGordon|w: then the user would need to remember that button ...
21:48:23preglowbut really, how much useful info can we fit in? and will this be maintained? most devs don't really touch the manual, and i expect this to be the same
21:48:24rasheramiconn: you may not think Rockbox is cryptic, but you're not a user. You're a developer, and one who knows the guts of Rockbox very well.
21:48:27scorche|wand where would he find that button except...in the manual?
21:48:42scorche|wunless we want to have nice little reminder popups like windows
21:48:46preglowi'd rather people maintain the manual than add this stuff, really
21:48:58JdGordon|wbut this isnt a manual replacement anyway...
21:49:08*JdGordon|w fails to see what useful info would be in the xml anyway
21:49:12pixelmaJdGordon|w: what's the usual context button in the settings screen (just to be clear what you're thinking about, can't imagine atm)
21:49:14rasherI don't understand this manual vs. context-sensitive help thing. It's a completely false dichotomy
21:49:16preglowJdGordon|w: no, but it'll suffer from the same problems, outdated info, not everything covered, etc
21:49:20scorche|wit is hard enough to keep the manual current let alone both the manual and these help actions
21:49:26amiconnrasher: I even have to use a Nokia phone for work every now and then, and while I really hate those confusing menus (worse than any othe rmobile phone I used so far, and worse than rockbox as well), they do not offer context sensitive hep
21:49:27Lloreanpreglow: Well ideally, what we'd do is have something condense the manual for on-target reading via a plugin. Then let that plugin accept a parameter, that the UI can pass it, for context specific help. (In my mind this is the ideal, at least)
21:49:29JdGordon|wpixelma: the usual _list_ context button
21:49:32preglowrasher: it's not a manual vs context help, i just suspect it won't be maintained
21:49:35bluebrotherso, how about adding a "manual" entry in the plugins menu to open it?
21:49:38Lloreanpreglow: Then, so long as the manual is maintained, and the appropriate anchors exist, it'll work
21:49:47gevaertsWhat does "Data abort at 00061180 (0)" mean ? I got it by adding __attribute__((packed)) to a struct
21:49:50rasheramiconn: They very much do, unless that phone is older than 6-7 years. It might be turned off though.
21:50:00preglowgevaerts: it means the cpu just did an unaligned access
21:50:10preglowgevaerts: arm needs data members aligned to their own size
21:50:25preglowgevaerts: packing a struct is asking for trouble on arm, unless gcc knows about that packing
21:50:28pixelmaJdGordon|w: I'm sorry to not have that in mind, I still don't know what you mean but don't mind...
21:50:50BigBambiamiconn: Nokia phones certainly do - sit on an entry for a little bit and it'll pop up telling you what that option does
21:51:03JdGordon|wpixelma: even the ondio has a context menu in the browser doesnt it?
21:51:10gevaertspreglow: unfortunately I need to put odd-sized structs back-to-back for usb purposes...
21:51:11bluebrotherwe have a html version of the manual. What do you think about an extended txt viewer that can parse the links in the html and display the rest?
21:51:24*amiconn hasn't seen anything pop up on that phone
21:51:46BigBambiEvery Nokia I have ever owned (8 different models) has done it
21:51:52rasheramiconn: As I said, it might be turned off, but I'm pretty sure every Series 40 phone has it, presumably also the rest
21:51:55BigBambiBut anyway, a little OT
21:51:55preglowgevaerts: sounds weird that gcc doesn't make properly align-proof accesses if it knows about the struct packing
21:52:13FrankOttopetur: I found some specs for my CF card from the vendor directly, now i'm trying to make sense of the set_features command (EFh)...
21:52:16pixelmaJdGordon|w: ok, now I see
21:52:16preglowgevaerts: worst case, you have to pick out the struct members byte by byte manually...
21:52:43*bluebrother checks his old phone
21:52:46peturFrankOtto: good. I got no response from A-Data
21:52:50preglowgevaerts: since bytes are always aligned to their own size
21:53:10FrankOtto... my spec says that the arguments must be passed in the registers FR (features register) and DH (card/drive/head register)
21:53:46gevaertspreglow: I'll try memcpy.
21:53:48 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:53:56preglowgevaerts: that should do nicely
21:53:59FrankOttoi'm wondering if this DH is the same as ATA_NSECTOR, which the rockbox code uses. any idea?
21:53:59bluebrotherNokia 6510 has an online help
21:54:11preglowgevaerts: as long as you're copying entire structs
21:54:54gevaertspreglow: Can't it handle inividual 2-byte members ?
21:55:03preglowgevaerts: as long as they're aligned to 2 bytes
21:55:13preglowgevaerts: ahh, forget that, yes it can
21:55:41preglowbut it'll be slower than doing it byte by byte, but of course prettier, and does what you want just for testing
21:55:49FrankOttopetur: if you're interested, http://www.transcend.de/support/dlcenter/datasheet/Datasheet%20CF133_1GB_32GB_.pdf
21:55:50amiconnrasher: Not 100% sure what the exact type is, most probably an 5140 (massive outdoor brick thing)
21:56:15*preglow just stopped using his 5140 :)
21:56:27preglowthat does not have a help system, afaik
21:56:29FrankOttopetur: ATA command set starts on page 52
21:56:31gevaertspreglow: it's just 4 copies, once for every usb connection, so speed doesn't matter here
21:56:47amiconnMy own mobile phone doesn't have context help either
21:57:40preglowanyway, it would be a nice feature if implemented properly, and that means devs will actually have to write good-quality help and update it
21:57:48rasheramiconn: Settings > Phone settings > Help text activation on the 5140.
21:57:51*bluebrother still uses 6100 −− the 6510 was getting sporadic dropout so he swapped
21:58:27preglowand translate it...
21:58:43rasherpreglow: Well, the manual isn't translated either
21:59:00preglowno it's not, but the rest of rockbox is, you'd much more expect on-device help to be translate than the manual
21:59:08preglow+d
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22:00:37 Join ConstyXIV [0] (n=Andrew@74-128-188-193.dhcp.insightbb.com)
22:00:55amiconnImho an option should be understandable by its name. And if someone doesn't understand it even though the name was chosen carefully, I fail to see how a *necessarily* short help text would clarify that
22:01:06ConstyXIVis there a reason my sansa c200 resets when I plug in the USB?
22:01:19amiconnI wouldn't mind an html viewer at all though, that's an entirely different thing
22:01:22preglowamiconn: rockbox has some truly whacky options that aren't easily explained by the name
22:01:23rasheramiconn: What? You don't see how a sentence could explain more than a single word or a few?
22:01:43preglow"dithering", for example, heh
22:01:44amiconnAnd if we have that, we could of course ship the manual in the .zip
22:02:12*rasher got creative when translating Crossfeed
22:02:33preglowi don't even remember what i translated that to, but it's not very easily understandable
22:02:35gevaertsConstyXIV: rockbox doesn't support usb properly yet, so it reboots back to the OF
22:02:38pixelmaConstyXIV: what do you mean? It should boot into the original firmware for the USB connection currently
22:02:43ConstyXIVah
22:02:45ConstyXIVi see
22:02:58ConstyXIVthat's what i figured
22:04:12preglowbut no, what would the smallest possible overhead be per setting for this? just a small id integer added to each setting?
22:06:06JdGordon|wpreglow: there is no extra overhead needed.... each setting already has a unique ID
22:06:13JdGordon|wthe LANG_ identifier
22:06:19preglowso just the overhead for calling the plugin, then?
22:06:34JdGordon|wyes
22:06:44rasherAnd making all menu entries have a context-menu
22:06:51JdGordon|wno
22:07:06rasherAh, you're on the "secret button press" team
22:07:12JdGordon|wumm... i was going to put it in the setting screen... but in the menu would be ok also
22:07:22 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
22:07:27JdGordon|wrememver how brilliantly geeric the menu code is? the extra code is tiny
22:07:40JdGordon|wBUT that file (the way i see it) wont be usefull for this anyway
22:07:52pixelmawell there are context menus in the main menu - how would you access the help there?
22:07:56rasherJdGordon|w: it'd be the obvious place to store the text though
22:08:06JdGordon|wnot if you want the file autogened
22:08:18JdGordon|wbut yes, it would
22:08:40JdGordon|wactually.... we could have it autogenned from the .c and a txt file elsewhere with the info
22:08:44rasherJdGordon|w: The file could be autogenned and pull the text from elsewhere (<help> field in the translation?)
22:08:44 Quit nicktastique ("Leaving")
22:08:50JdGordon|wsnap!
22:09:15*rasher thinks again
22:09:37bluebrotherhmm, but that would increase the size of the lang files
22:09:46JdGordon|wno it wouldnt...
22:09:53bluebrotheroh no, not if it's left out upon creation
22:10:02*bluebrother tired
22:10:21JdGordon|wthe .lang would grow, but the .lng would be the same
22:10:22rasherPutting the translation into the file directly wouldn't work, unless you want the file to be huge
22:10:34rasher(containing all translations at once)
22:10:42peturFrankOtto, amiconn: CF 4.1 spec says SET_FEATURES uses Command, SecCnt and Feature. Transcend specifies Card/Drive/Head. This must be a fault in the transcend datasheet, right?
22:10:44preglowkeep in mind whatever system you implement will have to tackle being target dependent
22:10:47FrankOttopetur: ok, page 71 of my spec details the SET_FEATURE command. it says it supports the 0x05 feature (advanced power management), which rockbox's set_features() tries to set. but it doesn't say what it makes of the additional parameter (rockbox sends 0x80), maybe it doesn't care?
22:10:54preglowon of course, translation would be nice
22:11:10rasherActually, storing it in an xml file would be absolutely braindead.
22:11:28rasherIgnore everything I've ever said.
22:11:29bluebrotheryep.
22:11:39bluebrotherexcept if you'd use that xml file for rbutil
22:11:40JdGordon|w... 2 seperate issues though...
22:11:41rasherCould be build in parallel with the xml though
22:11:51FrankOttopetur: i think the overview on p52 of transcend's spec is wrong, the detailed spec on p71 says it uses "sec cnt" for the argument..
22:12:23peturaha
22:12:26FrankOtto... but it also needs bit 4 in C/D/H set to "drive". i still need to find out what that means.
22:12:50JdGordon|wrasher: context sensitive issue actuallly has nothing to do with what the .xml was for, and doesnt need that to work... save it as help.<language>.txt and a plyugin can read it easily
22:12:56peturFrankOtto: those pages are an exact copy of the CF 4 spec ;)
22:13:49rasherJdGordon|w: yeah, I was just reminded in an "oh, if we already have a file with menu info on the device" sort of way
22:13:50peturexcept for the feature tables which they removed
22:14:21*amiconn should probably accept what rasher offered, stop talking about useless feature creep, and try to get some of his todo's actually done :\
22:14:47FrankOttopetur: i see. i think c/d/h correspons to rockbox's ATA_SELECT
22:15:00rasheramiconn: we'll commit it when you're not looking
22:15:21preglowamiconn: well, at least when it doesn't really entail any big overhead in bin size or other things...
22:15:32preglowi'd prefer it if people just beefed up the manual, but hey, that's me
22:16:00 Quit tvelocity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:16:05FrankOttopetur: so the CF-4 spec also says that "drive" should be set for the SET_FEATURES command?
22:16:09 Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection)
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22:16:39peturFrankOtto: petur.homedns.org:8080/cfspc4_1.pdf">http://petur.homedns.org:8080/cfspc4_1.pdf
22:17:06micols_are all ipod nano's supported by rockbox? i had a few issues with flac playback, and it didnt even play mp3's correctly last time i tried (about 1year ago)
22:17:10pixelmathis is somehow ironic, thinking of last weeks discussion about... a feature
22:17:15micols_its a ipod nano white 4gb
22:17:26preglowmicols_: works fine for me
22:17:35preglowmicols_: depends what you mean "all features", though
22:17:41peturFrankOtto: I was saying the detailed stuff (page 71) is copied from the CF spec
22:17:46 Quit JdGordon|w ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
22:18:05micols_preglow: do you have a white 4gb?
22:18:06FrankOttopetur: thanks, dling the cf-spec now :)
22:18:10micols_if so , can i try your config ?
22:18:11preglowmicols_: white 2gb
22:18:13micols_hm
22:18:17 Quit madspin (Remote closed the connection)
22:18:18micols_not good for me then :(
22:18:26preglowmicols_: it runs the same rockbox...
22:18:35preglowmicols_: anyway, my config is very basic, i pretty much run default rockbox
22:18:41micols_okay
22:18:42 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
22:18:43preglowso it won't help you far
22:18:49 Join perrikwp [0] (i=4aa794a0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-88e4a941a6c525ad)
22:18:52micols_couldnt get rockbox to work on linux anyway :(
22:18:55 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:18:58micols_only the windows installer worked
22:19:01preglowmicols_: try again, should be simpler now
22:19:04preglowif not, tell us
22:19:12micols_okay
22:19:14bluebrotherRockbox Utility is available for linux ... what was your problem?
22:19:15FrankOttopetur: i'm pretty sure now that "drive" means master (0) or slave (1). at least that's how rockbox uses it.
22:19:19preglowi'm the guy that ported to nano in the first place, so anything you think doesn't work is of course interesting
22:19:27rasherbluebrother: this was a year ago
22:19:30pixelmabluebrother: last year?
22:19:38micols_uhm i had a problem that it couldnt find my ipod at first iirc and then it found it but it didnt work, i dont completely remember
22:19:50micols_i found out how to make it find my ipod.. but it still didnt install.
22:19:51preglowmicols_: using ipodpatcher these days is dead simple
22:19:58preglowmicols_: we also have rbutil if you want a gui
22:20:12*bluebrother missed that.
22:21:33FrankOttopetur: i'm also pretty sure that's not the culprit, as it's uses all over the place in the ata code, rockbox takes care to set this right.
22:21:46micols_im not sure my ipod nano is a first-gen, but it might be. its a 4gb white.
22:21:57micols_and i bought it almost when it came out iirc.
22:22:02bluebrotherif it isn't a 1st gen it won't run Rockbox ;-)
22:22:14 Join JdGordon|w [0] (i=836b0049@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1d28bf85f7739af7)
22:22:15pixelmaisn't the rbutil linux binary that's still available in the wiki the one with the bug in the "complete installation"?
22:22:24micols_that might have been the problem bluebrother ... it did run, but everything was slowed down
22:22:30micols_couldnt even play mp3's at full speed
22:22:39micols_and flac was even worse
22:22:48micols_videos worked fine, however.
22:23:00micols_and the buffer-stats page seemed ok.
22:23:10preglowmicols_: if rockbox ran _at all_ it's a first gen
22:23:17micols_okay :)
22:23:32preglowwhatever method you tried to install rockbox would probably have puked like crazy if you tried to feed it anything else
22:23:35micols_just weird it couldnt even play mp3's at fullspeed, is there no such known issue?
22:23:49preglowmicols_: plays mp3s like a bastard here, and anything else i give it
22:23:56micols_:)
22:24:01micols_ill retry it then
22:24:06preglowwon't hurt
22:24:14preglowat least i hope it won't :)
22:24:37gevaertsWhy does linux lie to me ? It says that my configuration desciptor reports 1 interface, but rockbox puts 2 in the descriptor, and a usbmon trace agrees
22:24:51preglowgevaerts: perhaps that too hates you know :/
22:24:58preglownow, at least
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22:26:04micols_where do I get the linux-installer, i'd prefer that over non-gui right now, as im tired :)
22:26:22micols_I only got a .zip
22:26:32bluebrothermicols_: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/RockboxUtility has the links
22:26:59scorche|wpreglow: can you please make sure and add your name to http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/DevCon2008 ?
22:27:37preglowscorche|w: right
22:27:48crzyboysterOK, so I started making a theme using viewports, but I want to use more than one font. I read somewhere that you can define two fonts currently, the font being used in the wps and the system font. How would I define this in the code using the viewports sim/build?
22:27:49micols_./rbutilqt: /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.4' not found (required by ./rbutilqt) damn :(
22:28:31bluebrotherwell, you can still build it yourself from soures. It's rather easy if you have the toolchain and Qt4 installed
22:29:52crzyboysterAnd why does the hold button not change after it's been activated?
22:30:00micols_i compiled it last time from svn, perhaps i got a broken version, since it didnt even play mp3s :)
22:31:24preglowscorche|w: done
22:31:25micols_it was very nice except for that, hope it works this time.
22:32:32scorche|wpreglow: and tickets are more insane from US > europe than vice-versa me thinks.. ;)
22:32:34preglowmicols_: well, leech yourself a daily build and you won't have to
22:32:57preglowscorche|w: nah, norway taxes make prices extra snappy from this direction
22:33:18 Part idak
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22:33:28scorche|wthey even out the currency exchange rate?
22:34:04preglowperhaps, i haven't checked too closely anyway, cheaper fares probably pop up if i do and go along with flying Air Afghanistan or something
22:34:28bluebrotherdoesn't sound very trustworthy.
22:34:53*bluebrother checked the distance to petur's place today −− could even travel by train
22:34:54preglowit also happens to be made up :P
22:35:07FrankOttopetur: by any chance, have you tried sending other powermgmt levels than 0x80 ?
22:35:16peturyes
22:35:22preglowif devcon ends up in belgium and i attend, you're all responsible for keeping my (somewhat) sober :)
22:35:22 Quit ConstyXIV (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:35:23FrankOttoany luck?
22:35:26peturnone
22:35:28preglowmy/me
22:35:35FrankOtto:-(
22:35:37BigBambiI was in Niger working in 2005 - I had the choice between Air France, Air Morocco and Air Libya (via Tripoli) to get there
22:35:42BigBambiIt was a choice of two...
22:35:43peturpreglow: :)
22:37:01*BigBambi votes for Belgium - a short train ride for me :)
22:37:07BigBambi+ beer!
22:37:12preglowoh yes, the beer
22:37:13preglowbeercon
22:37:16*scorche|w checks flight prices to belgium
22:37:19BigBambihel yes
22:37:23BigBambi*hell
22:37:31preglowhelles yes
22:37:34BigBambiI'm practically in Belgium anyway
22:38:17preglowwestmallecon
22:38:25bluebrotherpreglow: in case devcon ends up in the us why not have an additional rockbox-enabled beercon? ;-)
22:38:35BigBambiChimayCon
22:38:46preglowbluebrother: if it ends up in the us and i'm attending, there's _no way in hell_ you're keeping me sober :P
22:38:48BigBambiGentlemen, choose your colour
22:38:55scorche|wOUCH
22:39:15*scorche|w sees a 1400USD flight ticket
22:39:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:40:06scorche|wpreglow: still think belgium > US is cheaper? =/
22:40:09preglowscorche|w: that's the price range we're talking, yeah
22:40:47bluebrother1400 USD to US or to belgium?
22:40:59scorche|wto belgium
22:41:14bluebrotherouch :(
22:41:48scorche|wbut i would have to look around once a place is more defined...it is sometimes cheaper to plan a bunch of small flights to major hubs than a direct flight to one area
22:41:55 Quit bertrik ("bye")
22:42:03BigBambiHmm, Paris to NY is looking at €470 here for Fri to Mon mid June
22:42:04scorche|wespecially when you use EU flight sites...
22:42:27scorche|wBigBambi: 686 USD
22:42:35BigBambiyeah
22:42:42scorche|wa bit if a difference..
22:42:55*BigBambi struggles to spell Brussels in French to check that
22:43:33scorche|wfrom me to de gaulle is 1462USD
22:43:44BigBambi€440 for that - and I'm closer to Bruxelles
22:43:52amiconnscorche: added.
22:44:38*scorche|w makes a note to refrain from eating and to live in his car for a month so he can afford devcon
22:44:52*petur gtg
22:44:58 Quit petur ("gonne")
22:45:02 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:45:48BigBambiJesus - of that €440 Bruxelles to NY, €247,00 is flights, €189 is tax
22:46:02BigBambiffs, that is insane
22:46:38*gevaerts is now copying data using the new transfer descriptor handling scheme
22:46:50rashergevaerts: \o/
22:46:54BigBambiyay gevaerts
22:46:58*preglow throws confetti
22:47:04rashergevaerts: Closer to serial?
22:47:12scorche|wBigBambi: ok...you can take the 1400USD payment...i will pay twice your rate
22:47:19micols_how do i set my ipod into disk mode (nano ) , i got the boot loader onto it now
22:47:27micols_but it wont find it anymore, it is in rockbox mainmenu
22:47:28gevaertsrasher: serial works, or ums works. Still not both.
22:47:38BigBambiscorche|w: Those flight costs for you are madness
22:47:50gevaertsI hope this one reduces or eliminates the resets
22:48:06scorche|wBigBambi: hence why i have been saying the whole time about the US dollar...
22:48:11preglowgevaerts: so still no idea why the resets?
22:48:30Bagderscorche|w: dollar or not, 1400 USD is MUCH more than 470 euros
22:48:50scorche|wwell, his cost was france > belgium i think
22:48:59scorche|wnot france to us
22:49:13BigBambiscorche|w: Oh, I agree that the US would be overall cheaper, and I have no problem with going there - my EU preference is purely selfish about how much *I* would have to pay - €440 flight vs €50 train
22:49:23scorche|wBigBambi: how much is it from france to the US using one of the french sites?
22:49:24gevaertspreglow: the transfers were handled in a pretty hacky way, so I wouldn't be surprised if that caused them. I'll know soon(ish)
22:49:38BigBambiscorche: That was France to US, then Belgium to US
22:49:54krazykitmicols_, that is covered in the manual
22:50:02scorche|w440 euro was?!?!
22:50:06BigBambiFrance - US €470, Belgium - US €440 on a French site (www.govayages.fr)
22:50:11scorche|woh wow.....
22:50:28BigBambiFor me (Lille) to Belgium is €50 odd on the train
22:50:36scorche|wBigBambi: well, either way with the opposition and resistance that has been happening against having a devcon in the US, i would bet it will end up in the EU somewhere...
22:50:50amiconnIf we'll have devcon in belgium, I'd probably go by car
22:50:55scorche|wBagder: you agree?
22:51:16preglowgevaerts: cool, exciting :)
22:51:41Bagderscorche|w: agree to your bet?
22:51:45preglowamiconn: i'll need a car for beer transportation anyway ;)
22:51:48crzyboysterCan somebody please take a look at this wps code > http://pastebin.com/d19161dc3 and tell me what I'm doing that makes the hold switch icon activated even when turned off? It uses viewports commands by the way...
22:52:05scorche|wBagder: well, my current view on the situation
22:52:06BigBambiscorche|w: As I say, my EU preference is purely selfish - €470 France to Us compared to €50 France to Belgium - I completely agree that EU to US is overall cheaper
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22:52:44gevaertspreglow: I hoped the same thing tuesday, but that one didn't work out.
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22:52:48BagderI see tickets for ~380 euros from stockholm to NY
22:52:52BigBambiAnd I mistyped - www.govoyages.fr
22:52:54scorche|weven with the price difference, it simply isnt worth it if people will outright refuse to attend in the US
22:53:24BigBambiI have only selfish monitory reasons :)
22:53:46preglowBagder: with what airline?
22:53:51Bagderklm
22:54:07FrankOttoamiconn: you said earlier that the powermgmt value 0x80 is chosen such that the disk won't go into standby, right?
22:54:08Bagderbut I just checked the rate I can get right now, not for any later date
22:54:39micols_it didnt reboot into disk mode as it should krazykit
22:54:45micols_but it worked now, after a reboot of it.
22:54:49BigBambiI checked for buying now for fri - mon mid June, and got €440 bruxelles - JFK, NY
22:55:16scorche|wthat is just plain mad
22:55:35BigBambiAnd as I say, 40% of that is tax :)
22:55:38preglowBagder: rates are almost certainly higher in june
22:56:02preglowbut if someone has a place for me to crash until then :)
22:56:03scorche|wBigBambi: even if 200% was tax, it would still be cheaper =/
22:56:03Bagderyeah, then it is roughly 480
22:56:09BigBambiAlthough if I was going all the way to NY I would probably want to stay for a bit longer
22:56:16amiconnLowest I found for Berlin->NY was ~810 EUR (in June)
22:56:22*BigBambi remembers he has a friend that has just emigrated to NY
22:57:09amiconnFrankOtto: yes
22:57:42FrankOttoamiconn: i now read in the CF spec that for CF sleep mode and standby mode are the same...
22:58:01amiconnRockbox should retain control over when the disk spins down. Otherwise the setting wouldn't make sense
22:58:15amiconnFor cf it probably doesn't matter at all
22:58:37FrankOttoprobably, as there's nothing to spin down
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22:58:56amiconnBut the card shouldn't fail on that command, i.e. it should adhere to the specs
22:59:43amiconnUnless we're doing something wrong - but I fail to see what that could be in case of programming the advanced power management feature
22:59:49FrankOttothe spec says: on SLEEP, card sets BSY, then enters SLEEP, then clears BSY, then generates an interrupt. huh.
22:59:52 Quit crzyboyster ("CGI:IRC")
22:59:54amiconnThe card claims to support it
23:00
23:00:31FrankOttoi still wonder how i can "output" the ATA status registers.
23:00:45FrankOttois it safe to update the screen from inside the ATA code?
23:01:21FrankOttoany advice?
23:01:30amiconnYou could use logf()
23:01:49amiconnThat is, if the error doesn't freeze the whole device
23:02:06amiconnYou need to be able to at least enter the debug menu and view the logf buffer
23:02:35FrankOttono, at the moment, my device fails the SLEEP command, but apart from a constantly-on LED, it keeps working
23:03:01FrankOttoso accessing the debug menu will be possible
23:03:14FrankOttothanks for advice, i'll try this
23:06:23FrankOttoamiconn: what might also be of interest: the CF spec says that the SLEEP behaviour is slightly different from the ATA spec, namely the device will enter SLEEP by itself when some internal timer expires, and this timer defaults to 5msec for CF, and ATA uses a different timer value (they don't say which one)
23:09:15*gevaerts notices that fligh prices are extremely sensitives to all sorts of variables. They are much cheaper if you don't fly back the same week...
23:11:45 Quit ze (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:12:18FrankOttoamiconn: would dumping ATA_STATUS, ATA_ALT_STATUS & ATA_ERROR suffice?
23:12:29*scorche|w would like to see a statistical workup/chart/formula for flight prices
23:13:21rasherscorche|w: That would probably get you disappeared faster than inventing free energy
23:13:43*gevaerts starts working on this free energy thing
23:13:46BigBambiscorche|w: Would be good, but perhaps only useful if a central fund were paying - otherwise it is going to be purely what costs me less
23:14:18scorche|wBigBambi: i meant more for the variables gevaerts mentioned
23:14:43BigBambiscorche|w: Blimey
23:14:52BigBambiThat is a little complicated!
23:15:11BigBambiI thought of just who is coming from where + prices
23:15:52scorche|wnaw...that is easy to work up
23:16:03preglowgevaerts: any resets spotted yet? :>
23:16:40gevaertspreglow: unfortunately yes. Followd by an error that caused a disconnect, so this is actually worse than before
23:18:06gevaertsThe good news is that it was after writing 280MB
23:20:22 Quit Rob222241 (No route to host)
23:21:15micols_How do I remove the original apple firmware, I dont like "dual-boot" ?
23:21:25gevaertsAt this point I think that the version in svn is the most stable, and the one I have here is technically the cleanest (but it's not ready yet)
23:21:34micols_including all original apple files, i removed the Notes, iPod_Control etc.
23:21:42micols_and took backup of my music.
23:22:11micols_I want to do it after i have added the rockbox bootloader+files.. i dont want to dd it and remove all files, only apple files
23:22:14preglowgevaerts: well, here's hoping there are still bugs :>
23:22:54*gevaerts thinks that preglow's hope might come true
23:22:59preglowmicols_: there's not much point in removing the apple firmware apart from freeing thirty megs of flash space or so
23:23:10preglowmicols_: can't remember exactly how to permanently remove it, though
23:23:17*preglow thinks linuxstb__ knows
23:23:25micols_its probably dd with bs and count from to bytes
23:23:31micols_on the firmware partition
23:23:39bluebrotheryou can install the bootloader into the firmware partition instead of adding it to the image
23:23:54micols_perhaps i should just clear my firmware partitition completely
23:23:59bluebrotherspeeds up booting a tiny bit.
23:24:04micols_with dd and re-install rockbox bootloader onto it again.
23:24:34bluebrotheryou can install the bootloader directly using ipodpatcher
23:24:45micols_ipodpatcher does only mess with firmware partition right?
23:24:52bluebrotheryes.
23:25:15preglowmicols_: but to make any point at all to removing retailos, you pretty much need to resize the firmware partition
23:25:16micols_ill try dd'ing the sdc1 and installing bootloader again. then i should get rid of apple.
23:25:37micols_yeah preglow , i know. well, i just want to get rid of apple at this moment :)
23:25:50micols_somewhere in the future it should be resized, when i get the time :)
23:25:50FrankOttoamiconn: my debug menu doesn't show a logf entry at all. does that need some special build option?
23:26:04bluebrotheryou'd still see the apple logo ...
23:26:10micols_i would get around 75MB space, perhaps up to 80M
23:26:21micols_if the bootloader is only 512 bytes :)
23:26:43micols_bluebrother: why?
23:26:50micols_is it coded into rockbox?
23:26:50 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
23:27:05bluebrotherthe bootloader is bigger than 512 bytes. The bootsector is 512 bytes.
23:27:16gevaertsFrankOtto: yes. say Advanced to configure, and then choose Logf. Don't forget to enable logf in the files from which you want output
23:27:18bluebrotherbecause that part is in flash memory of the Ipod
23:27:29micols_ah.. thought so, like the disk-only mode
23:27:33FrankOttogevaerts: thanks!
23:27:39bluebrotherthe flash also contains the emergency disc mode
23:28:07bluebrotherand that's quite a good security net to not brick your Ipod.
23:28:18micols_its not possible to edit the flash memory using usb?
23:28:30micols_put a pizza-slice in instead of the apple i.e.
23:28:31 Part low_light
23:29:08bluebrotherwell, if you figure out how the flash works and are comfortable with the risk bricking your Ipod, feel free to try ;-)
23:29:09micols_its probably ROM, so its not writeable or?
23:29:26bluebrotherit is writeable. Itunes writes this on updates afaik.
23:29:40micols_ah yeah, seems right
23:29:55gevaertsBut you can probably only do it wrong once...
23:30:00FrankOttogevaerts: with "enable logf" you mean #include "logf.h" ?
23:30:05micols_hehe yeah.
23:30:16 Quit JdGordon|w ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
23:30:35gevaertsFrankOtto: most files have a commented out #define LOGF_ENABLE near the top. That needs to be activated.
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23:31:07FrankOttoah, i'll check
23:31:14bluebrotheranyway, gtg now. cu.
23:31:19 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
23:31:51micols_i just replaced my nano battery, almost melted the board with 290C :D
23:32:02micols_but works fine.. 18hrs instead of 1hour battery time now
23:32:26micols_i dont look forward to the next time.
23:33:43keanuJdGordon|w, any ideas on the cause of bug in lists using viewports (FS #8457) in which scrolling contents aren't cleared when going to another screen?
23:34:38JdGordon|wyes, the scrolling isnt stopped
23:36:08keanuany ideas on what causes it to not be stopped (and how could it be fixed?)
23:38:08gevaertsI'm doing another copy. It's now copied 450MB of files to the sansa without any resets, and still going.
23:38:18JdGordon|wdisplay->dtop_scrol() isnt being called
23:38:35micols_The sound is working fine now.. must have gotten a bad svn version.
23:38:47FrankOttoumpf. my logf output contains only garbage :(
23:39:33gevaertsI guess that means I was right about the cause of these resets, but as long as it fails hard sometimes it can't really be called better than the previous code...
23:39:41gevaertsFrankOtto: what kind of garbage ?
23:40:42keanuwhere would display->dtop_scrol() need to be placed for it to work?
23:41:24FrankOttogevaerts: binary garbage :)
23:41:55FrankOttoI suspect I just install the complete build and not just RoLo the new rockbox.iriver...
23:43:20gevaertsFrankOtto: I think I have used a new rockbox.mi4 with logf enabled in an install where it was not, but I'm not sure
23:44:08JdGordon|wkeanu: everywhere its missing obviously...
23:44:17*JdGordon|w not in a helpful mood atm. busy
23:44:26keanuok, sorry
23:46:05 Join EnterUserName [0] (n=dave@ip-1.50.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net)
23:46:07EnterUserNamehey all
23:47:01gevaertsCould someone with a non-3G ipod who is using linux do a quick test for me ? I would like to verify if this high-speed USB issue is really portalplayer related, and not just sansa.
23:47:36gevaertsBeing able to compile your own builds with current svn is a requirement
23:48:09keanuI'd be able to help, except I only have a sansa
23:48:33 Quit simonrvn (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:48:49FrankOttogevaerts: it doesn't make a difference, a complete install shows the same logf garbage
23:49:13FrankOttoe.g. the hexdump starts with "31 11 a2 6c 31 11 a2 70 31 11 a2 74 31 11 a2 78"
23:49:16 Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@84-255-206-8.static.t-2.net)
23:49:29gevaertsFrankOtto: interesting. I don't know much about logf, but from what I saw of the code it shouldn't be able to generate that itself
23:49:32 Nick _MindScape is now known as MindScape (i=tranquil@ifconfig.and.set.your.eth0.linux.info.ve)
23:49:43 Quit JdGordon|w ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
23:50:06FrankOttogevaerts: right, i'll dig some more
23:50:57gevaertsFrankOtto: isn't that part of a FAT table or something similar ?
23:52:57 Join Administrator [0] (n=chatzill@74-136-169-157.dhcp.insightbb.com)
23:53:29gevaertsMy file copy just completed. I copied 750MB to the sansa, without resets, in 32 minutes (403 kb/s)
23:53:57FrankOttogevaerts: no idea
23:54:16gevaertsFrankOtto: they are 32-bit numbers inr
23:54:26gevaertsincremented by 4 each...
23:55:04tessaraktwhen rockbox gets USB Host functionality, can it then be controlled by mouse?
23:55:10 Quit Administrator (Client Quit)
23:56:11 Quit ender (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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23:56:38gevaertstessarakt: You will be able to control it by mouse, attach your USB speakers, and print out the usage statistics while watching TV using a USB tuner. Of course, someone will have to write drivers for all this.
23:56:39FrankOttogevaerts: you are right, that's the overall pattern. from time to time some spaces (0x20) are added.
23:57:04tessaraktgevaerts: cool :-)
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23:57:19gevaertstessarakt: when can you start working on it ?
23:57:31tessarakthm
23:57:42tessarakt3,5 years, approx.?
23:58:23tessaraktbut the TV tuner idea is really good! ;-)
23:58:25KennethScharfHello... I just filled out the twiki form and would like write access so I can add my experience with the CF conversion of a gigabeat unit
23:58:44gevaertsFrankOtto: do you also have that on an otherwise clean svn checkout ?
23:58:44tessaraktbut, maybe, like Google Summer of Code students?
23:58:47micols_anyone know how to change the rockbox logo at startup , and has some extras?
23:58:59micols_i saw one at a forum once

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