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#rockbox log for 2008-03-14

00:00:16amiconngah
00:00:28amiconnThe action contexts are a mess :\
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00:05:03DefineBytenm
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00:10:06TuxguyCan I use mencoder to convert avi for nano?
00:11:09krazykitas long as you convert it to a supported format, you can use whatever you like
00:11:23Tuxguywhat should i convert it to ? mpeg1?
00:11:48scorche|shTuxguy: check out the wiki page PluginMpegplayer
00:12:03TuxguyURL?
00:12:07Tuxguyi can try it in lynx
00:12:38 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:13:17krazykitTuxguy: you can find the link to the wiki on every page of rockbox.org
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01:16:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:18:28NHeal(timeout) card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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01:24:48amiconnjhMikeS: around?
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01:39:38Davide-NYCJdGordon: ping
01:42:58JdGordonpong
01:43:07JdGordonjust gimme a min to get dressed :p
01:45:10JdGordonDavide-NYC: sup?
01:45:28Davide-NYCI wanted to chat for a sec about the new WRS.
01:45:48Davide-NYCArchos Rec and iRIver LCD remotes have to be a bit different
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01:47:09JdGordonwhy?>
01:47:33Davide-NYCBecause you cannot fit three lines above the peakmeters on the Archos screen
01:47:52Davide-NYCcheck out my little tiny screenshot in the forum.
01:48:06JdGordonisnt that what is being shown in wn though?
01:48:07 Quit mib_q3a6me4n (Client Quit)
01:48:13JdGordons/wn/svn
01:48:29pixelmaJdGordon: btw. did you notice that your mac failed in the sim builds (and was disabled later)?
01:48:45JdGordonbtw, i agree with whoever said that the labels are pointelss
01:49:04Davide-NYChttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15911.0;attach=2768
01:49:27JdGordonpixelma: yes.. I think i fixed it.. its stupid dash/bash problem again, dunno why Bagder disabled both my servers though
01:49:30Davide-NYCLlorean said it, and yes, they are pointless. Though I predict people will lament.
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01:51:33*JdGordon gtg.. ill be in and out for the next few hours... but the forum is better to chat about this
01:51:40 Part pixelma
01:51:45Davide-NYCOK. It's all there.
01:54:08Davide-NYCjhMikeS: ping
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02:00
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02:55:18DEBUGEOF from server (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 545)
02:55:18***Cleanup
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02:55:18***Exit
02:55:19***Started Dancer V4.16
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03:16:44jhMikeSamiconn: around now
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05:46:19syn4psewould anyone care to look at a problem i'm having with bitmap vs. color depth? I think I have my SOURCES file set up wrong - bitmaps are all 1bit.
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05:48:05syn4psewhoa ok, nm i think i've got it.
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10:26:47joeycooper93is anyone here?
10:27:12linuxstb112 people and a bot are...
10:27:33joeycooper93ok, hey is anyone working on a zune custom firmware?
10:28:32linuxstbI don't believe any has cracked the firmware encryption yet (or if anyone is still working on it).
10:29:26joeycooper93i hope they can, the zune program sux, no clock, and useless wifi
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10:31:55joeycooper93anyone here own a zune?
10:32:09scev0lacracking FW encryptions is a big problem here
10:32:20scev0laI'm stuck with iriver E10
10:33:11joeycooper93ok, good. stay with it if u like rockbox or custom firmware, no one has cracked zune
10:35:20 Quit joeycooper93 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
10:49:34rasherAnyone opposed to committing FS #8538?
10:51:55gevaertsThere are some similar inconsistencies in the debug menu.
10:52:16markunscev0la: can you look for a way to reencrypt a firmware? There is some checksum which is now skipped by ifp_decode which we would need to generate.
10:52:27LinusNgevaerts: the debug menu is, well, a debug menu
10:52:42markunscev0la: Maybe you can ask someone who wrote of an image modifier for one of those irivers.
10:52:47LinusNwe cant be bothered about fixing language in that
10:53:34gevaertsLinusN: I agree, but I wasn't sure what the consensus is on this
10:54:06LinusNthere is never consensus in this project :-)
10:54:22markunat least we all agree on that :)
10:54:45*gevaerts hasn't seen much demands for changing the project name recently :-)
10:54:52LinusNbut fixing language issues in the debug menu is filed under "rubbish" in my cabinet
10:55:13markunnew RE stuff on the Meizu front every day: http://www.meizume.com/firmware/5567-rockbox-project-m6-12.html
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10:57:45LinusNrasher: i think you can commit
10:59:24gevaertsmarkun: it looks like we can probably expect "real" code within the next few weeks
10:59:41markunI hope so
10:59:58markunI'll try to make a Meizu skeleton for rockbox this weekend
11:00
11:00:19markunI have some questions about the button layout:
11:01:30markunwe have '5 point joystick' (slider + prev and next) and MENU, ENTER, POWER/PLAY/PAUSE and HOLD
11:01:55markunwhat should we do with ENTER and POWER/PLAY/PAUSE?
11:02:15markunENTER is on the front, POWER/PLAY/PAUSE on the top of the player
11:02:40markunmaybe ENTER can be mapped the same as A on the Gigabeat and POWER as POWER
11:02:55LinusNENTER sounds like one of those hard-to-map buttons that end up as a backlight control :-)
11:03:10markunwhat will be out stop button?
11:03:21LinusNlong-play i guess
11:03:31markunand shutdown?
11:03:44amiconnI'd map POWER/PLAY/PAUSE to PLAY; and use long Play as stop like on several other targets
11:03:44markunsince PLAY and POWER are the same
11:03:51amiconnEven longer Play
11:03:51LinusNouch
11:04:03amiconnSame thing as on iPod and M3 at least
11:04:07amiconnNot a real problem
11:04:19markunamiconn: at the same time it might be nice to have the play button on the front of the player
11:04:26amiconnWhy?
11:04:53markunaren't you Mr I-want-my-buttons-on-the-front?
11:05:08amiconnYes, but that's a hardware issue, not a mapping problem
11:05:42linuxstbmarkun: Have you tried to encourage the meizu people to come over to rockbox.org? I'm getting a feeling of deja-vu (the Gigabeat F port)...
11:06:10linuxstbmarkun: I see you have... ;)
11:06:11markunlinuxstb: I tried, but kgb2008 (who is the most active guy) doesn't intend to do so
11:06:34markunotoh, we always say: "the port has to come from the community"
11:07:07markunand right now I don't really mind
11:07:53markunlinuxstb: I'll keep gathering the info in the rockbox wiki
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11:10:05markunamiconn. LinusN: you can partially forget what I said about the buttons. I based my info on some forum thread about the button layout but the PLAY/PAUSE button is actually on the front: http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/meizu-m6se.jpg
11:10:28markunso I guess the POWER button is on the top and can be the STOP button as well
11:10:37scev0la<markun> : Hi!
11:10:44markunhi scev0la :)
11:11:19scev0labeen busy for some time..
11:11:21markuneven stranges, both buttons seem to have the play/pause symbols! http://www.allpmp.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/allpmp5.jpg
11:12:54scev0lamarkun: right now I can't even find a compiled (.exe) version of ifp_decode
11:13:03scev0laonly source code
11:13:06linuxstbmarkun: OK, just don't give up ;) Unless kgb2008 wants to fork Rockbox, he'll have to come here eventually...
11:13:29markunlinuxstb: he stated that he has very little time online, so I also understand that
11:13:51markunand maybe he's just like the Gigabeat hackers: vanishing when the fun part is over
11:17:44amiconnBagder: You could add M3 bootloader, main & sim to the table if you want :) . All compile, with a single warning though, and the target build is no much use yet.
11:18:33scev0lamarkun: can you help me finding it&
11:18:53scev0lamarkun: ifp_decode.EXE I mean
11:23:47gevaertsscev0la: can't you compile it yourself ?
11:27:01amiconnLinusN: pm_ping
11:27:06scev0laYeah, I'm lazy, I know :)
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11:29:54amiconnLinusN: Could you test svn bootloaders on H1x0 and H300? The remote should work now
11:30:16LinusNi'll see if i can do that tonight
11:30:53amiconnProblem was that the remote LCD init relied on some other thread to call lcd_on(), which never happened since that other thread doesn't exist at all in bootloaders
11:31:21amiconnThe detection tick just sends an event that the lcd should be initialised
11:32:11amiconnNow the call to lcd_remote_init() tries to initialise the lcd directly if the remote is present
11:32:54amiconn..and the tick isn't compiled anymore for bootloaders
11:33:19amiconnSame problem existed on the iaudios. Fixed, and tested, as testing iaudio bootloaders isn't dangerous :)
11:35:00LinusNi see
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12:00:52amiconnLinusN: Btw, did you read that I found what the 'logo' area in the iaudio flash files is for?
12:01:05LinusNnope
12:02:03amiconnIt's the "Firmware upgrade" logo that's displayed when the bootloader finds & flashes a new firmware file
12:02:21amiconnIt's for the remote, and seems to be used on M3 only
12:02:30LinusNi see
12:02:55amiconnRight now 'scramble' just puts zeroes there, leading to an empty screen with just a progressbar when flashing on M3
12:03:36amiconnOn X5, the "Firmware upgrade" logo seems to be part of the flash loader, so just putting zeroes doesn't change anything
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12:04:00*amiconn wants to put a rockbox there for M3, but needs to figure out the necessary bitmap format
12:04:10amiconns/rockbox/rockbox logo/
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12:57:30preglowseems the backdrop actually draws over file names for h120 cabbie
12:59:16preglowi don't really know how nice i think a backdrop is on a grayscale target anyway
12:59:18scev0lajust found service manuals for iriver E10!
13:00
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13:04:50scev0laand for all other irivers
13:04:59scev0lahttp://www.genius.ru/servicecenter/ir/Servicemanuals/
13:07:53scev0laE10 seems to have DFU mode,
13:08:17scev0labut to enter it you have to short some pads on board
13:08:59Bagderpeople and their rar files...
13:10:09scev0laBagder: what's wrong with RAR files?
13:10:20Bagderthey're plain silly and evil and best avoided
13:10:37GodEater7zip ftw!
13:10:37Bagder7zip compresses better and is an open format
13:10:46scev0lawow I'm scared!
13:11:10amiconnz-zip can open the perfectly...
13:11:20amiconn*them
13:11:22gevaertsIt's even worse. These rar files seem to contain doc files!
13:11:29GodEaterBagder: seen this ? http://www.emacsblog.org/2008/03/13/yet-another-snippet-package/
13:11:42scev0laand will delete all those files from me HD immediately!
13:12:08scev0lait's common for corean firms
13:12:51scev0lahaven't you seen .XLS files with, say, 2 strings of text and LAAAARGE foto embedded&
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13:13:32BagderGodEater: no I hadn't...
13:13:35amiconngevaerts: ->openoffice
13:14:58GodEaterBagder: not sure if you're in anyway interested, but it was emacs related, and I thought looked kind of cool :)
13:15:10Bagderit does look cool...
13:15:52GodEaterI've not tried it yet, but I'm about to
13:16:45BagderI might need that handy when I'm going to battle the "we use Eclipse" people in my new project... :-)
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13:17:31GodEaterBagder: should blow 'em away :)
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13:17:50Bagder"but where's that button to press so that it runs make for me" ...
13:17:58BagderB-]
13:18:58BagderI've only seen short glimpses of Eclipse users in action, but I don't need anymore either... it's not my style of working
13:19:24Bagderand they have these sorts of "snippet" support built-in that tool
13:20:57gevaertsDoes eclipse have decent search-and-replace these days ?
13:21:12BagderI didn't get that far so I can't tell ;-)
13:21:19*gevaerts still prefers vim
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13:21:48Bagdervim was far from born when I hacked my first code in emacs...
13:22:04LinusN"If still NG, replace U9(MCF5249,CPU)" yeah, right ...
13:22:24Bagderhahaha
13:22:39BagderLinusN: that for the h100 ?
13:22:47LinusNyes
13:23:06LinusNrepair equipment recommendations.doc: "Oscillposcope" :-)
13:23:37LinusNstill some valuable info there
13:23:39Bagder"if you fail to replace U9, we consider you a lame solderer and you shall go stand in corner"
13:23:40GodEaterhmm
13:23:43GodEaterdoesn't want to work for me
13:23:44LinusNhahaha
13:23:47GodEaterthe tab key is doing nothing
13:24:37amiconnThe iriver cpu is BGA, right?
13:25:37LinusNyup
13:26:50scev0laLinusN: yeah, THAT doc file is hilarious!
13:27:08LinusN:-)
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13:28:55merbztBagder: regarding SoC the ffmpeg aac-lc decoder is almost ready for main svn inclusion, so I would recommend that as a project
13:29:14Bagdercool
13:29:57amiconnIs it fixed point?
13:30:33merbztG2/Cook only miss a fixed point transform, and you can use the wma mdct for it so it should be viable also
13:31:04merbztamiconn: no, should be easy to port though
13:32:32merbzteverything up until the actual transform might be ported though
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13:32:45merbztthe ffmpeg ac3 decoder is like that now
13:32:58merbztjust the transform is performed in float
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13:38:32scev0lasome more interesting files
13:38:32scev0lahttp://www.genius.ru/servicecenter/ir/FirmWare/S7/
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13:41:31LinusNwoo! circuit diagrams!!!!
13:42:16Bagder!
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13:44:54scev0laI don't know what russian "Genius" has to do with iriver, but..
13:45:48scev0laplayer_dev.bin - is it samsung's internal NOR contents?
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13:56:48amiconnWoow! A H10 circuit diagram, i.e. portalplayer!
13:57:57Bagdercoolness indeed
13:58:33*gevaerts wonders how those files got there
13:58:48Bagderinteresting boot options
14:00
14:01:45*amiconn is now convinved that the USB problem is some PP init, not a voltage regulator setup problem
14:07:02*gevaerts 's thoughts are also going in that direction
14:09:52gevaertsSome of the observations seem to point to timing issues (or incomplete packets) as opposed to signal level issues (like the hub problems. Normally bad-quality devices work better behind a hub, not worse)
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14:12:22LinusNgevaerts: could it be that the cpu clock needs to be an even multiple of the usb clock?
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14:13:58*preglow looks for the circuit diagram
14:14:49gevaertsLinusN: that's one possiblility. According to the ARC spec in the iMX31 manual, the transceiver comminicates at either 30MHz or 60MHz (i.e. a 16bit or 8bit data bus to reach the 480Mbit USB bus). Which one is used can be read from a register (I think PORTSC1, but I don't have time to look for it now)
14:17:53gevaertsamiconn: look in the H10 service manual. It has a block diagram for the PP5020
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14:27:46preglowhaha
14:27:51preglowfrom h120 service manual:
14:27:55preglow1. Before getting into repair work, you.d better prepare soft clothe to prevent further kissing.
14:28:07LambdaCalculus37Haha!
14:28:15preglowsounds like quite a workplace
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14:29:24LambdaCalculus37Don't know if that can be a Golden Quote or not, but it's funny nonetheless. :)
14:29:33DerPapstnice find! :-)
14:30:46preglowcould someone find files like these for ipods, please?
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15:00:26scev0lahere's another "mirror"
15:00:28scev0lahttp://fvd.ru/?go=drivers&folder=iRiver
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15:22:23scev0labye all, have some info for a weekend hacking sessions :)
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15:26:12clarkiiStupid question ... I just loaded r16665 on an H10 and it work fine except when I change themes. It then goes into a weird ASCII mode and I have to redo the .rockbox folder to fix it. Did I miss something?
15:26:41LambdaCalculus37clarkii: H10 5/6GB or 20GB?
15:26:48clarkii20GB
15:27:10LambdaCalculus37Which WPS are you trying to switch to?
15:28:17clarkiiIt doesn't seem to matter. I'm using "Browse Themes" and am only using the default ones. It goes ASCII no matter which one I pick.
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15:30:27clarkiiAnother note, once it goes ASCII, changing themse just changes the color and font size. I haven't found a way to get it out of ASCII without blowing away .rockbox.
15:37:45*GodEater has a strong suspicion that the OP in this thread is a journalist working on PC World and PC Plus : http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=15929.0
15:39:05GodEaterand in fact he's just confirmed it
15:42:45LambdaCalculus37Cool!
15:43:40LambdaCalculus37clarkii: Try hooking your H10 up to your PC, and deleting the config.cfg file inside the .rockbox folder.
15:43:45LambdaCalculus37That'll reset your settings.
15:43:49GodEaterthe "are you going to write a Rockbox article" question is a bit flippant, but if he does, I suspect we finally stand some chance of getting a reasonably accurate one in the press. He seems keen on actually engaging with us.
15:45:02Arathisclarkii: sliding hold on while starting the player will do the same job with your h10
15:46:43GodEaterBagder / LinusN around ?
15:47:19GodEateror Zagor ?
15:47:38ZagorI'm here
15:48:06GodEatercould you take the 1st Gen iPod MBR linked in the thread I metioned above and put it on the download server ?
15:48:15GodEaterhe did it twice, so make sure you take the second one
15:48:29GodEaterthen I can add it to the wiki page
15:49:30GodEaterhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15929.0;attach=2773 <−− direct link to attachment
15:49:40Zagorah, thanks
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15:50:33GodEaterI'm not sure on the naming convention a "4.5ish GB" hard drive is a bit vague
15:51:02GodEatermbr-1g-4.5gb.bin should do though I suppose
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15:51:37Zagorthe first was only available in 5 and 10 GB, so I guess it's a 5
15:51:42GodEatersounds good
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15:51:54GodEaterlet's go with that then
15:53:16Zagordone
15:53:27toffe82The company who build the zif to ata interface in germany is a little crazy, 55 euros to ship 5 interface to the US !!!!!
15:55:07LambdaCalculus37That's a bit expensive... =/
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15:56:32toffe82It will be the same orice for the 5 connector shipped to Europ ;)
15:56:45toffe82^price :)
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16:29:25jac0b|wI think I found a bug for the mpegplayer
16:30:49jac0b|wi set my font using the "font:" tag in the theme.cfg file but if you into the mpegplayer and change the volume it freezes
16:31:10jac0b|wis it just my build?
16:32:11markunwhat a complicated bug
16:32:24GodEaterfirst, what mp3 player ?
16:32:28GodEatersecond, what build ?
16:32:39GodEaterthird, does it occur with all movies ?
16:32:58jac0b|wgigabeat f series
16:33:12jac0b|wI only have one video
16:34:10jac0b|wcustom build, that is why I am asking if it happens to anyone else
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16:35:07LambdaCalculus37jac0b|w: Have you had this happen with an official build?
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16:36:00LambdaCalculus37We can't figure out what it can be from a custom build.
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16:36:46jac0b|wI could try it on a official build, brb
16:37:14jac0b|wI got to finish my diggnation
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16:39:21GodEaterzagor: I'm not seeing that file on the download server
16:39:29GodEaterah damn he left
16:39:44*GodEater hopes it's just a mirroring issue
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16:53:55jac0b|wokay I tried it with the official its something with my build causing the bug
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17:35:44LambdaCalculus37Davide-NYC: Good day to you!
17:36:12Davide-NYCLikewise!
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17:38:10LambdaCalculus37Davide-NYC: I managed to fix my friend's iriver H120. Turns out the hard drive's partition table was completely trashed.
17:38:26Davide-NYCI suspected it was an HDD issue.
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17:42:22LambdaCalculus37He's interested in modding his iriver with a CF adapter later.
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17:47:35*Davide-NYC needs to stop obsessing about the WRS.
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18:28:59waldoi bought a new sansa .. broke the old ones headphone jack :S .... how do i see whether it is a v1 or v2 ? also .. if i use sansapatcher will it complain or just fuck up a sansa v2 ?
18:30:38 Quit webguest07 ("CGI:IRC")
18:30:55gevaertswaldo: sansapatcher should complain. You an distinguish between v1 and v2 by going to the "Settings" menu and choosing System Info. If the version is 01.*, it's v1. If it says 03.* it's a v2
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18:32:06waldogevaerts: hmm will check
18:32:57*gevaerts wonders why sandisk skipped 02.*
18:34:16waldolol, grr it's still charging .... with the "connected" screen
18:34:33*bluebrother thinks about rejecting FS #8731 −− thoughts?
18:35:48gevaertsI think the only way to handle that type of request cleanly is to make all keys configurable. A special case like this sounds dangerous
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18:37:13bluebrother... and customizable buttons are not wanted (would be hell to support)
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18:45:54Horschtaren't there, like, remotes for that?
18:46:05Horschtremotes that one can mount on the wheel for instance
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19:04:13waldo<spam mode> YEHAAAA it's a V1 sansa i've bought :)
19:05:02gevaertswaldo: I expect some people will want to know where you bought it :)
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19:08:58waldowell, belgium, antwerp media markt
19:09:41waldoi asked whether it was a new batch and it was ... so i thought i'de be screwed for sure ...
19:10:13waldoso ... "en groupe" to "media markt" :)
19:10:43*gevaerts would try media markt hasselt tomorrow if he didn't already have enough players
19:12:10waldowell, that's quite a good reason not to buy another :)
19:12:30waldoyou could buy a spare one for if you fall on it , like i did :)
19:13:37gevaertsI currently have four players running rockbox, so I have some margin :)
19:14:23waldoindeed, that should do
19:14:55waldowhere the hell do i get sansapatcher ?
19:15:32waldoi can remember from the previous time that i had to run it with sudo on an unmounted sansa ... but can't locate the proggy
19:15:33bluebrotherwaldo: on the download server. The manual has the exact link
19:15:40bluebrotheror try Rockbox Utility ;-)
19:15:43 Quit ch4os_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:16:15bluebrotherand bootloader installation requires raw disc access (usually root permissions)
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19:26:51waldohttp://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/sansapatcher/linux64amd64/sansapatcher ==> gives me a 404 :S
19:28:46bluebrotherdoesn't look like there are 64bit binaries around of the latest version
19:29:23*linuxstb wonders why FS #8538 didn't include a discussion of which convention to follow - not capitalising words is far more common in British English
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19:30:50*bluebrother doesn't like this capitalization hype
19:30:53waldoi've still got the version i used with my old sansa ... (dec 2007) ... what has changed ?
19:31:23bluebrotherI don't think there was a new release since that
19:31:27gevaertswaldo: I think the bootloader didn't change since then
19:31:34waldok tnx
19:33:47*gevaerts notices that at least one native British English speaker commented on that patch, and didn't complain about this
19:35:11waldobluebrother & Gevaerts; tnx a boatload !! i've got a rockboxed sansa again, just LOVE it :)
19:35:32gevaertsHave fun with it !
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19:36:46linuxstbgevaerts: Yes, just one native speaker commented...
19:38:17gevaertslinuxstb: I do agree that this should be discussed. Too much capitalisation can be annoying
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19:45:27woodensouli'm not seeing how to request a closed bug be re-opened, any help?
19:48:44linuxstbI assume you are you logged in?
19:49:30woodensoulyes
19:49:44linuxstbIs there a button underneath the white box (with a red border) near the top of the task? The box with the "closed" message in it?
19:50:24woodensoulsomeone has already made a request to re-open it, is that why i'm not seeing the button?
19:50:31linuxstbProbably.
19:50:34linuxstbWhich task
19:50:35linuxstb?
19:50:41woodensoul8513
19:50:56woodensoulthe bug occured last night on yesterday's build
19:51:06woodensoulbut the request was made 3.08
19:51:14woodensoul(by someone else)
19:51:51linuxstbOK, I'll re-open - you can add your experience...
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19:52:43woodensoulok
19:54:31woodensoulthanks
19:57:51bluebrotherBagder: the genlang download of rbutil fails :(
19:58:27LambdaCalculus37 /quit
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20:00
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20:03:40J-23Hello! How can I test MpegPlayer on Sansa c240?
20:03:57bluebrotherby playing a movie ...
20:04:17bluebrotherwe have a movie available for download, check the PluginMpegplayer wiki page
20:04:20J-23I have played 96k video/96k audio movie.
20:04:54J-23I will try with better bitrate.
20:05:58*gevaerts is trying to understand the usb audio spec
20:06:42bluebrothergevaerts: UMS bugfree and running? ;-)
20:07:46*J-23 encodes video/audio file to 96k video/128k audio 132x80 MPG
20:09:10gevaertsbluebrother: as far as I now UMS is mostly bugfree. The remaining problems are PP initialisation (and since that involves reading OFs I think I would probably be the last one to find anything), and the sansa sd bug (idem). I also figure we need something to test USB host whenever I get to that
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20:09:49bluebrothercool.
20:10:13*bluebrother is amazed by the usb work
20:10:46J-2396k video+128k audio works.
20:11:21*gevaerts wants to be able to use both host and device USB audio simultaneously. The gigabeat would then be able to send its sound to itself over usb
20:12:47bluebrotherusing the Ipod as sound card would really be a cool feature
20:14:04gevaertsI'm not sure how much it would actually be used, but it would be cool
20:14:29bluebrotherif the sound quality is better than the internal sound card of my laptop ... ;-)
20:15:03J-23128k video+128k audio works, but video quality is...
20:15:44gevaertsI guess you can already test that. Just play the same track on both
20:17:29J-23hmm, source file was 64k/64k
20:18:50J-23and output file was 0k :/
20:19:19 Quit woodensoul ()
20:22:17J-23I've written 96 instead of 96k in console
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20:34:09k3ttc4rso - how does this work with those wiki-write permissions?
20:35:24BigBambik3ttc4r: What is your wiki name
20:36:27k3ttc4rChristianBrassat
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20:37:25BigBambik3ttc4r: Done. No spamming now :)
20:38:29*gevaerts decides to look how an actual usb audio device works. This spec is too complicated for a friday night
20:38:49Beta2KYou didn't make him swear on anything like soap made me?
20:38:56BigBambiNah
20:38:57k3ttc4rsweet, thanks
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20:49:51hreeThe recently committed screenshot ss-reversi-160x128x1.png doesn't seem to be a reversi screenshot. Rather a pong one.
20:50:04hreeWhere is the image police???
20:53:53linuxstbYou've just arrived... ;)
20:55:00*linuxstb reads the list of USB device classes and wonders how silly it would be to make Rockbox a printer (storing the images to be viewed later)...
20:55:23bluebrotherLOL
20:55:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:55:55bluebrotherbut the m:robe 500 might be useable as webcam?
20:56:11linuxstbThere's also a Monitor device class...
20:56:30bluebrotherthat sounds interesting. Make a new Ipod monitor ;)
20:56:56bluebrothersomeone might want to setup a second monitor and move the mp3 player application to the Ipod screen ;)
20:57:30gevaertsActually we could expose brightness/contrast settings using that. The question is of course if any OS supports it
20:57:41linuxstbSadly it just seems to be monitor control, not the display data...
20:57:58bluebrotherhmm, too bad.
20:59:17gevaertsI think the (semi-)useful ones are UMS, Audio, CDC (serial), HID (keypad, maybe screen) and PTP/MTP
20:59:39linuxstbIs the MTP/PTP spec public yet? I can't see it on the site...
21:00
21:01:17gevaertsPTP is the Still Image Capture Device class.
21:02:22gevaerts(at least wikipedia says so). There's also ISO 15740
21:02:26linuxstbIs that useful? (apart from the mrobe 500) ?
21:03:16gevaertsI put it last on my list for a reason ;)
21:03:41linuxstbWell, MTP is useful. (I guess...)
21:04:18linuxstbProbably more useful than any HID classes.
21:04:41linuxstb(if we're only talking Rockbox as a device)
21:05:21gevaertsHost has a different set of useful classes I think.
21:07:45*gevaerts wants host with a libgphoto2-based digicam control plugin
21:07:58 Join DefineByte [0] (n=defineby@bb-87-81-195-5.ukonline.co.uk)
21:09:49preglowshould we just close that apev2 for mp3 patch entry for good?
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21:15:04Nico_Ppreglow: what's wrong with APEv2, again ?
21:16:37linuxstbpreglow: I don't really care any more - I wouldn't object (in principle - I don't know if that patch is OK)
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21:17:19gevaertsIt looks like USB audio should be possible with only one pair of endpoints. That would mean it can coexist with UMS or HID if we want it to.
21:18:00gevaertslinuxstb: I just remembered : HID is useful to expose the volume controls to the OS while doing USB audio
21:18:29preglowNico_P: well, the problem is that they're stored at the end of the file, so seeking has to be done to check if they're there
21:18:37linuxstbgevaerts: Why should the host OS care about the volume controls?
21:18:51preglowNico_P: ordinary id3v2 data is stored at the start. i guess we could just search for apev2 if id3v2 is not found, but i don't really like it
21:19:08preglowbesides, i feel that id3v2 is what belongs on mp3
21:19:51Nico_Pah right, yes
21:19:59preglowapev2 is a much nicer tagging format, if you ask me
21:20:03linuxstbBut given the lack of any official tagging format for MP3, who's to say id3v2 is better than APEv2, apart from the fact that it got there first?
21:20:10preglowbut i don't want to burden rockbox with having to cope with everything being tacked onto anything
21:20:22preglowlinuxstb: it's more common by far
21:20:39preglowlinuxstb: and got there first, yes
21:20:55gevaertslinuxstb: depends on whether you want to handle the volume control on the host or device side. And you might want to use the rest of the keypad to control your host-based media player
21:21:30linuxstbpreglow: Are there any technical advantages to APEv2? e.g. are character encodings handled better?
21:21:31*gevaerts will now stop speculating about the usefulness of features and get on with reading this spec
21:22:20preglowlinuxstb: apev2 is utf8, as a general rule, afaik
21:23:18linuxstbpreglow: But I agree it's probably about time to make a final decision on it...
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21:24:17preglowlinuxstb: yeah, i guess that's my point
21:25:02*linuxstb doesn't really care either way (he hardly has any MP3s), but would vote in favour if there was a vote
21:25:02preglowi don't really mind apev2 support, but i would very much prefer id3v2 to be the default, and no extra settings involved
21:25:40linuxstbSo use id3v2 if both id3v2 and apev2 exist?
21:25:43preglowso i guess a question that pops up is: if id3v1 AND apev2 are found, which are preferred?
21:25:48preglowi'd put id3v1 last any day
21:26:01preglowlinuxstb: well, yeah, since we don't have to seek to the end of the file at all if id3v2 is found
21:26:24linuxstbBut wouldn't a user be more likely to want the apev2 tags, if he/she has gone to the trouble of creating them?
21:26:25LloreanYeah, I wouldn't mind a check for ApeV2 if we're already at the end of the file.
21:26:49*linuxstb isn't convinced that seeking is a hard task - it's not a tape...
21:27:12preglowwell, seeking latency is specified for all disks, and it does matter
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21:27:55*linuxstb switches computers
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21:27:59RemmyX25hey everyone
21:28:50LloreanI'd bet most people with ApeV2 tags just have them on accident, much like the people with ID3 on FLAC. At least, I've heard more people running into problems with ID3/FLAC than APEv2/MP3 while doing support.
21:29:03 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
21:29:53preglowid3/flac is more prone to error, being tacked on to the start of the file
21:30:00RemmyX25alright, i have a question which probably has been answered but I'm too blind to find it....
21:30:12 Quit PaulJam (".")
21:30:25Lloreanpreglow: Ah, true, wouldn't Ape tags mostly just break gapless?
21:30:52preglowLlorean: don't see why they would break gapless, an mp3 decoder would just lose sync at the end of the file, see eof, then start at the next file
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21:31:10RemmyX25where can i find the "instuments" for MidiPlay?
21:31:16preglowso unless sync loss causes the decoder to purge its state, it should be fine
21:31:24Lloreanpreglow: Ah, okay. I don't know much about MP3 decoding.
21:31:39LloreanRemmyX25: I think they're linked on the SoundCodecs wiki page.
21:32:11linuxstbRemmyX25: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMidiPlay
21:33:20bluebrotherBagder: ping
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21:34:40RemmyX25do i need to extract the file? (not sure what .tbz2 format is)
21:34:49 Quit perrikwp (Client Quit)
21:35:26bluebrotherit's a tar file that has been compressed using bzip2
21:35:33bluebrotheron windows, 7zip can extract it
21:35:48RemmyX25alright. i've got 7zip done with it already
21:35:51RemmyX25thanks!
21:36:05RemmyX25aaaannnnddd theres more
21:36:42RemmyX25thanks for everyones help
21:36:45RemmyX25^_^
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21:38:49linuxstbpreglow: Regarding the apev2 patch, maybe we should post a comment saying it will be closed unless anyone can convince us it's a good idea - just to give people the chance to say why they need it.
21:39:08crzyboysterWhen will the mrobe:100 builds be added to the builds pages?
21:39:46linuxstbI think as soon as there's a manual with install instructions.
21:40:10crzyboysterSo everything else in finished for it?
21:41:32linuxstbI doubt it's finished...
21:41:51linuxstbJust good enough to be usable to non-developers.
21:42:36crzyboysterThanks
21:42:40 Quit crzyboyster (Client Quit)
21:42:51bluebrotherthe mrobe manual only lacks 9 images and already has 134 pages ;-)
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21:43:42DefineByte134 new pages? x)
21:44:40 Quit desowin ()
21:44:48gevaertsThey get rebuilt every day, so yes they are new ;)
21:44:59DefineByteheh
21:45:48bluebrotherjust think of the amount of pages that get created freshly every day ... much greater than 1000 pages in total ;-)
21:46:01gevaertsThink of the trees !
21:47:27bluebrotherfortunately we don't print them
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21:48:45DefineBytesomeone might be. who knows?
21:48:59*bluebrother don't want to know :P
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21:51:43DefineByteany chance of my patch being committed before the mrobe stuff (if it ever will be, not like I've had any feedback ^^)? x)
21:52:02bluebrotherwhat patch?
21:52:37DefineBytefs#8175
21:52:40gevaertsIt should be possible to implement a USB audio interface that doesn't actually do anything. That would be a nice replacement to the current "charging only" interface.
21:52:47DefineByte8715//
21:53:55preglowlinuxstb: i guess so
21:54:25bluebrotherDefineByte: looks like it contains several newline changes (which makes it a bit longer to review it ...)
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21:54:45DefineByteoh okay. :)
21:55:54linuxstbpreglow: OK, I'll post something. I think it's fair to give people using the patch a chance to argue for its inclusion.
21:56:23DefineByteare there any custom builds that use it?
21:56:58DefineBytejust thinking some might be relying on it without realising.
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22:01:00 Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net)
22:02:45bluebrotherZagor: the genlang website stuff is gone :(
22:02:59 Part k3ttc4r
22:03:20bluebrotherbut rbutil relies on it for voice file creation
22:03:36bluebrothercan you fix that?
22:03:54Zagoroops. do you know the path where it was?
22:04:05bluebrotherhttp://www.rockbox.org/genlang/
22:04:14Zagorthanks, fixing
22:04:19 Join scev0la [0] (n=c17d5d9b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-75ed2524d41bb0b3)
22:07:14linuxstbsoap: Regarding your forum post about the 5.5g being sluggish - I thought we had scrollwheel acceleration now, so are you saying it's still too slow?
22:07:44soaptoo slow? No. Less "responsive" and "precise" than other targets? Yes.
22:08:36soapI don't want to scare the guy off of Rockbox on the iPod - but I do believe many people would think it is not "snappy".
22:10:38linuxstbI thought the comparison was with the Apple firmware, not other targets?
22:11:19linuxstbi.e. is more work needed on the scrollwheel?
22:12:05 Quit argumentD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:13:45 Join framo [0] (n=framo@bb-87-80-66-156.ukonline.co.uk)
22:14:10soapI thought it had been declared a slow screen driver issue.
22:14:22Zagorbluebrother: fixed
22:15:02soapThe issues I have are completely related to choppy scrolling in long lists.
22:15:27linuxstbWhat if you manually boost the CPU?
22:15:47soapgive me 15. My Video is in my truck which is out in the rain.
22:18:15 Quit desowin (Remote closed the connection)
22:22:31bluebrotherZagor: thanks.
22:25:58 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Connection timed out)
22:26:04 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=el_miep@p54BF78B5.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:26:36gevaertsWhat's the policy on declaring a struct that is defined in an external document (USB audio spec), but will only be used inside one .c file ? Should I put it in the .c file or in the usb_audio include file ?
22:26:40 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-0791f3cf04613623)
22:27:15 Quit DefineByte ("Bye all")
22:29:28 Join saratoga3 [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-f522d069f139a8ca)
22:30:01linuxstbgevaerts: IMO, .h files should contain the public interface for the .c file - so in that case it should be in the .c file
22:30:26*linuxstb isn't sure if there's a policy on that...
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22:31:08Zagorgevaerts: if it's only used in the c file, it should be declared there
22:31:26 Join saratoga4 [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e1e7b5a9479c8c36)
22:31:33gevaertsThanks
22:31:41 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
22:32:53BagderZagor: genlang is already in the source dir so it should be a link on the web site
22:33:09Zagoraha
22:33:23 Join satatoga11 [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-998411bf591cb947)
22:34:39*gevaerts hopes to have a fully spec-compliant but non-functional usb audio implementation tonight
22:34:52 Quit saratoga3 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
22:35:07Zagordid anyone find a use for it? :)
22:36:12gevaertsSome people seem to want it, and the "non-functional" one should be useful to replace the charging only interface (there are drivers for it, and people are less likely to be confused by an audio device than anything else)
22:36:26 Quit saratoga4 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
22:36:35gevaertsIt's also fun to do of course
22:37:37 Quit J-23 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:38:30Bagderhm, how come AC3 is not mentioned in the CodecPerformanceComparison page?
22:39:33gevaertsArgh! Why did they define a data structure in there with non-aligned 16 bit numbers in it ?
22:40:20LloreanBagder: Do we have AC3 test files?
22:40:44Zagorgevaerts: lovely
22:40:56Bagderhttp://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/AC3/ ... perhaps?
22:41:04linuxstbLlorean: That page doesn't have test files - just one test file and a script to encode in many formats
22:41:38linuxstbSo I guess the issue is lack of an encoder in that test suite...
22:42:34*gevaerts looks for the name and address of the writer... Hmm, Leuven, that's reachable...
22:43:39 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
22:44:39 Quit rockho (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:44:47Lloreanlinuxstb: Ah, right. I knew that the selection was based on what we can create test files for, but I forgot we included encoders rather than files.
22:48:23 Quit scev0la ("CGI:IRC")
22:52:54soaplinuxstb, fresh install, defaults (including theme) that's 15 lines per screen (if my eyesight is right) and in the file browser browsing ~500 directories.
22:53:55soapWithout CPU boost, scrollwheel responsiveness lags input by at least 200ms. I'm slowly scrolling down, change direction, and the selection bar goes "down" at least one more item before changing direction.
22:55:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:55:44satatoga11i saw some suggestion that the ffmpeg aac decoder should be made into a GSOC project
22:55:56satatoga11what is the argument in favor of that verses just cleaning up FAAD?
22:55:57soaphmm, I thought I could scroll in "Debug Menu"−−>"CPU Frequency" to increase the boost count. Now I'm going to ask a stupid question - how do I manually increase boost?
22:56:10satatoga11i think its up and down
22:56:29satatoga11at least on the sansa you can't do it with the scroll wheel
22:56:35soapI thought it was too. It (boost count) is staying at zero)
22:56:56soap"Menu" as up and "Play" as down does not appear to work either.
22:57:29linuxstbsatatoga11: I agree, I don't think the ffmpeg AAC decoder is obviously a better choice.
22:57:33soapSomething I pressed raised it, hmm.
22:57:51satatoga11that said I do like the ffmpeg decoder
22:57:56satatoga11its actually readable
22:58:22 Quit TMM (Remote closed the connection)
22:58:36linuxstbI think the faad decoder could be made to be readable though... (removing all dead code would be a good start)
22:59:31soapahh, scrolling backwards increases it. Scrolling forward increases it. Continuous scroll does not continue to increase/decrease, only separate scroll events get registered.
23:00
23:00:45linuxstbAnyone else ever get "make[1]: *** No rule to make target `UI-.bmp', needed by `/home/dave/rockbox/rockbox-viewports/build-gigasim/UI256.bmp'. Stop." ?
23:00:53soapand linuxstb (after that embarrassing tangent) the lag feel is gone when boosted from 30 to 80 using the default theme (15 lines per screen)
23:01:12*linuxstb realises why...
23:01:32linuxstbsoap: Hmm, so there's an argument for boosting whilst the UI is active...
23:01:59soapI, personally, don't mind the lag - I use a larger font and rarely interact with the UI.
23:02:40 Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net)
23:03:08soapI also don't find the lag, even when present in this situation, crippling (or even hindering) in any way. I do think, though, that it has a noticeable feel in comparison to most other DAP UIs.
23:04:21satatoga11I strongly support adding GUI boosting of some kind
23:04:26satatoga11just not enough to make it happen
23:05:05satatoga11also, it might help battery life for FLAC users if it enabled us to reduce the idle clock speed further, as per buschel's patch
23:05:24soapNot to mention the fact that even on my 60GB player it takes at least a second to enter the menu from WPS if there is still buffering going on.
23:05:34*gevaerts looks for the name and address of the writer... Hmm, Leuven, that's reachable...
23:05:44soapand, IIRC, the 80GB has slower disk access.
23:05:46*gevaerts can't be trusted with a keyboard...
23:07:11Lloreanlinuxstb: Could the list scrolling code boost, rather than basing the boosts on button presses?
23:08:06Lloreansoap: I've noticed that on my Nano recently actually, a severe delay while buffering is happening. Also affects skipping, it almost seems like buffering isn't interruptible.
23:09:13satatoga11Llorean: theres some time invovled in boosting and unboosting, so it probably makes sense to remain boosted for a couple seconds at a time
23:09:31 Join Horschti [0] (n=Horscht@p4FD4E8CA.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:09:42soapI should also mention that not only is this 15 lines per screen tiny font and all, but also most my directory names are two screens wide.
23:09:48satatoga11so you'd probably want to boost as soon as the UI comes on, and then unboost a little while after you're sure theres not going to be more button presses for a bit
23:10:15 Quit Horscht (Nick collision from services.)
23:10:17 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:10:35satatoga11compared to having the back light on, boosting uses relatively little power on PP anyway
23:10:42 Join djazzy75 [0] (n=527cd25e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7f1093ce792fe1dd)
23:10:44 Quit djazzy75 (Client Quit)
23:11:19soapWhy do the daily and current build pages simply say "Toshiba Gigabeat F" and not mention the X?
23:11:54toffe82Is there still a X user ?
23:14:31 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
23:18:46amiconnsoap: The problem with the slowish drawing especially on ipod video is the "optimisation" in the 16 bit lcd driver that was introduced by one of the gigabeat guys (don't remember which of the 2)
23:18:55amiconnThis optimisation is actually a slowdown
23:19:16soapI didn't realize it had gotten slower.
23:19:30amiconnI will fix that if I ever get around writing a gfx performance test plugin
23:19:47amiconnsoap: That optimisation happened quite some time ago
23:19:48soapand I thought you ruled the LCD drivers with an iron fist. (no offense intended)
23:19:52amiconnMaybe a year or so
23:20:56soapis the MpegPlayer plugin CPU or LCD bottlenecked on the 5th gen?
23:21:17amiconncpu
23:21:44amiconnIt's just too huge a display resolution for the poor little cpu
23:22:02amiconnWith smaller displays, mpegplayer performs very well on pp502x
23:22:49soapyea, I knew the CPU:resolution ration was bad, but I was also under the impression the LCD driver was slow.
23:22:57soapratio even.
23:23:12amiconnIt used to be slow, but is not anymore
23:24:09amiconnIirc it's the second-fastest lcd driver, transfer rate wise
23:24:22amiconnOnly the e200 lcd driver is faster
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23:26:24amiconngevaerts: The cpu clock/usb transfer speed ratio is an interesting aspect
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23:27:00amiconnIf that's actually the root cause, 30MHz can't be correct, as that's the normal, unboosted clock in rockbox
23:27:12amiconnSo, did you try 60MHz?
23:28:07gevaertsamiconn: it is. Unfortunately I got dizzy when I tried to find out how to set the clock speed. I think I tried 60MHz, but I might have made a mistake.
23:28:30*amiconn thinks the pp clock setup is rather straightforward
23:28:58*gevaerts looks for an excuse... He might have been tired at the time
23:29:03amiconnThat is, setting the actual value, not the workarounds for the various quirks
23:29:47 Nick z35_1 is now known as z35 (n=z@149.123.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com)
23:30:09 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
23:31:05amiconnFor PP5020, set 0x8a020a04, for PP5022/5024, set 0x8a120a02
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23:32:02amiconnCould also use 0x8a020502 and 0x8a120501, respectively
23:33:24*amiconn compiles for mini g2
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23:34:11*gevaerts goes to get some players
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23:35:33amiconnI'll do a quick test by just setting CPUFREQ_MAX to 60MHz. Will go back to working on M3 afterwards
23:36:26satatoga11whats the policy on assigning the copyright header to files?
23:36:35satatoga11is it whoever writes the file or whoever writes most of the code in the file
23:37:03Zagorsatatoga11: whoever started the file
23:37:24Bagderwell, major contributors can very well add theirs too
23:37:35 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
23:37:46amiconnZagor: I'd add the exception that if a file starts as a close copy of another, the copyright line of the original file should be copied
23:38:02*amiconn did that for some of the M3 files
23:38:05satatoga11what about i2c-dm320.c? at present theres no code in the file
23:38:13Zagoramiconn: indeed. I don't count copies as original work.
23:38:15satatoga11marcus claims copyright in one of his patches that adds code
23:39:31Zagorreplacing the copyright line is a big no-no. adding another line would be more acceptable.
23:39:54Bagderbut if there was nothing before and code is added, I'd take that as a valid copyright claim
23:40:40Zagortrue. I just looked at the file and it really is empty. how come it even exists?
23:41:05satatoga11probably to make something else compile
23:41:30satatoga11heres a patch to fill it out: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8686?getfile=16164
23:42:09satatoga11or rather http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8686?getfile=16167
23:43:05Zagorin this case I'd say it is ok
23:44:38gevaertsamiconn: on sansa it doesn't work. Reading the partition table fails (which is the same behaviour as at 30MHz)
23:46:49amiconnDoesn't work on mini either, even at the root port
23:47:30amiconnWindows fills the event log with lots of the infamous disk event 51
23:48:13gevaertsSame on ipod 5G. I tried both values on both sansa and ipod
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23:49:52gevaertsMaybe it doesn't like too many interrupts while it's doing a transfer ? Would 60MHZ and all non-usb interrupts disabled be worth trying ?
23:50:44syn4pseif the 1bit color default is black, how would you draw white? say a rectangle? invertrect and clearrect both aren't members of that api
23:51:53amiconnOr in DRMODE_INVERSEVID
23:52:27 Join Buschel [0] (n=abc@p54A3F950.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:52:32amiconninvertrect and clearrect existed in pre-drawmode ages
23:53:08syn4pseis there any way to just clear pixels?
23:53:40syn4psemy plugin is pretty much working except for a tiny snag... i can draw the important bits
23:53:45satatoga11in one bit color white is just the opposite of black
23:53:47Buschelsaratoga: regarding the former discussion about ipod gui responsiveness. have tried fs#8668?
23:53:57satatoga11isn't it ipod only?
23:54:04syn4psenot anymore :D
23:54:14syn4psei've been busy
23:54:33*Buschel buschel remembers saratoga owns a sansa :/
23:54:41Buscheloops
23:54:49 Quit DerDome ("Leaving.")
23:54:53satatoga11yeah i've been looking at doing something similar for the sansa
23:55:11satatoga11half heartedly though due to time constraints and my desire to fix various issues with the wma decoder
23:55:17Buschelhmm, let me check
23:57:36amiconnsyn4pse: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GraphicsAPI
23:57:52syn4psethx

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