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#rockbox log for 2008-03-22

00:00:00BigBambiSure
00:00:18BigBambiBut for those that do, they don't need to understand programming or anything
00:00:34DefineByteJust how to define fonts. x)
00:00:57 Join midkay_ [0] (n=midkay@70-56-92-50.tukw.qwest.net)
00:01:08BigBambiHow is that different from bitmaps, or conditionals for the WPS?
00:01:29DefineByteI wasn't suggesting it was. :)
00:05:29 Quit bertrik_ ("bye")
00:10:28 Join disorganizer [0] (n=5b11dba3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-8a218edf1588fffb)
00:11:48disorganizerjust a question for the font discussion: why not allow central definition of fonts via theme.cfg (filling the font-cache on config load) and allow a wps to overwrite the fontcache?
00:15:30linuxstbWhy complicate things and allow fonts to be specified in two places? Also, how would the overwriting work - i.e. what fonts from the theme .cfg be overwritten?
00:16:39 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:17:12disorganizerin the theme-cfg, you could define the fonts for the wps like wpsfonts=font.fnt,font2.fnt,font3.fnt
00:17:34LloreanAgain, though, that rules out the possibility of shared fonts right there
00:17:43disorganizerthe wps could use this "font array" by indexing: %f1 would be font ... etc
00:17:46 Quit midkay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:17:48LloreanIt makes much more sense, in my opinion, to just have font1, font2, font3, fontX
00:17:58LloreanAs global font definitions
00:18:14disorganizer@llorean: we only need to work with the indexes in the font cache. we just need an algorythm to find identical fonts. example:
00:18:44disorganizerfont1 is defined in the cfg as wps-font1, wps-font2 and menufont. font2 as listfont.
00:18:51Lloreandisorganizer: Yes, but what about the case where someone wants the statusbar and all numbers in the WPS to share the same font?
00:19:32linuxstbdisorganizer: I still don't understand what your idea will gain us.
00:19:33LloreanWhy should they have to define the font in two places to do this? Why should fonts even be in two places at all?
00:19:51*Llorean doesn't see any actual benefit in having the fonts defined in the WPS.
00:20:11disorganizerslow. i will reexplain what i meant by allowing a wps to overwrite the fonts defined in the theme...
00:20:44disorganizerso lets say, like above, the theme defines wps-fonts as font1 and font2, so they are stored in the fontcache.
00:20:51LloreanWhy not explain what is gained by splitting font definitions into two places?
00:20:59disorganizer@llorean: listen first
00:21:04LloreanSince there's no sense in deciding how to do it, if there's no gain in doing it...
00:21:42 Quit csc` ("Powering Off")
00:21:51disorganizernow if the wps developer thinks he needs to ensure a special font is used for his wps (even if another theme is chosen for the rest of rockbox), he COULD (not need to) define them in the wps.
00:22:09disorganizerthe wps setting would overwrite the wps-fonts in the fontcache on its first load.
00:22:47disorganizerthis would please the theme developers delivering themes containing wps's (they could define the fonts in the theme-cfg) but also people only wanting to make a wps without a theme
00:23:26disorganizer:) finished explaining. questions ?
00:25:15 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
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00:25:34Lloreandisorganizer: The problem is that there's going to be more integration between WPS and Rockbox in the future, not less
00:26:11disorganizerintegration of which kind?
00:26:12LloreanThere's talk of using the WPS rendering code for the status bar. There's other talk of allowing the lists to overlay the WPS. There really isn't the kind of separation of WPS and Theme you're thinking of. It exists now, but the direction things are looking is to decrease it, not increase it.
00:27:46disorganizerwell, if its going that way than of course only cfg-settings make sense. but imho they should not be put into the config file, but stay in the themefile and the config should only reference the theme-cfg file
00:28:07disorganizerbut thats just a matter of taste :-)
00:28:09Lloreanthere's no difference between a .cfg file and a theme .cfg file.
00:28:12LloreanI don't know what you're saying there.
00:28:31disorganizerif you load a theme at the moment, the settings are copied from the theme-file to the rockbox-config
00:28:38LloreanNo.
00:28:46disorganizer?
00:28:49LloreanIf you load a theme at the moment, any settings in the file are loaded, because it's just a .cfg
00:29:20LloreanThere's only one type of .cfg file. Equalizer presets, themes, sound settings, are all just .cfg files of the same sort.
00:30:02disorganizerbut afterwards you find the settings in the "default" config your rockbox loads. if the theme-creator decides to use a "special" setting, you need to manually reset it if you load another theme
00:30:24LloreanThere's no such thing as a "special" setting. What do you maen?
00:30:26Lloreanmean, rather
00:31:02disorganizerfor example if one theme sets a backdrop, and another theme does not reset the backdrop. you could think of any setting a theme may set, as its only a config
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00:31:39LloreanThat's a problem with the theme not being explicit enough then
00:31:57LloreanIf the theme wants there to be no backdrop, it should say "no backdrop" rather than what it currently says ("I don't care")
00:32:33DefineByteIt's like a webpage that assumes specifying no colour = white. Very annoying.
00:32:35LloreanWhy should it be impossible to load a theme without resetting the backdrop?
00:32:55disorganizerlets say i write a theme setting stereo width to 120. no other theme def would care about it ;-) this would happen if we have too many custom settings in the cfg, imho.
00:33:39disorganizerthe backdrop was just an example :-) but anyways imho all settings done by a theme should be easily "revertable" by the user. also as said thats just a matter of taste :-)
00:34:01LloreanThe solution is properly designed themes...
00:34:40disorganizerso how do you think fonts should be set via a theme?
00:34:57 Nick midkay_ is now known as midkay (n=midkay@70-56-92-50.tukw.qwest.net)
00:35:19LloreanPretty much how the single font is now. Load a series of fonts, and any part of the UI that can be individually fonted can reference it by number.
00:36:03disorganizerok, so you prefer the font=font1,font2,font3,font4,... method, correct? that would also be the method i prefer :-)
00:37:01DefineByteIf lists etc. are to become more customisable would users be able to use the WPS from one theme and the rest from another?
00:39:38*disorganizer noticed the mf patch is broken beyond repair
00:39:52LloreanDefineByte: They'll probably need to make their own .cfg for use with the WPS, at least.
00:40:52 Join midkay_ [0] (n=midkay@70-56-92-50.tukw.qwest.net)
00:40:57disorganizeri think it also depends on how the customizability is done. IF the fonts are compatible and IF the customizable parts each have their own definition file, then copying files together would be enough. otherwise manual modification of the theme file or config file will be needed
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00:44:46disorganizer@llorean: after thinking about it i believe you are right. the font=.... method is propably more logical as soon as other customizable objects come up.
00:45:45 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
00:46:15LloreanIt's really a question of two design paths. Either each thing needs to be handled entirely separately, which means a lot of double and triple checking to make sure you aren't loading fonts more than once, or "whole" themes where different aspects can interact and keep consistency by being defined in terms of global appearance values, such as fonts and UI colors and such.
00:46:32disorganizeralso it makes the parsing code easy: set font-array directly from config-file, and then use the indexes when parsing directly. we still need to handle "duplicate fonts" though, as font=font1,font1,font2,font1 should not hold font1 3 times in the cache
00:47:07LloreanIt would be rather silly of a user to load three of the same fonts, especially since they're all set on one line so they can see it.
00:48:31DefineByteIf a theme is that screwed up let the cache be screwed too.
00:48:57LloreanDefineByte: Well..
00:49:01disorganizeryes, no doubt. but i propably will happen :-) especially if unexperienced users need to manually "combine" cfg's of different themes to maybe have the file list of one theme with the statusbar of another one and the wps of a third ;-)
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00:49:21DefineByteIs their going to be a limit to the number of definable fonts?
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00:49:31LloreanIt's going to be easier to just change the font line to contain duplicates, rather than go through a whole theme and change which font is referenced, of course.
00:49:35 Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@unaffiliated/advcomp2019)
00:50:15disorganizer@llorean: the exaple would be a user wanting to have only 2 fonts in a wps where the developer used 3 fonts.
00:50:40linuxstbdisorganizer: Then the user wouldn't choose that theme, or he/she would modify it.
00:50:49LloreanI think it is best to ask them to modify the theme.
00:51:13LloreanSince it'll affect more screens than just the WPS, in some or many cases, it seems like it should be a decision where they should be asked to actually check where the fonts are used.
00:51:37disorganizerbut we could easily allow this: if we create an index of pointers into the real fontcache, we could allow 2 of those pointers to point to the same font without breaking the concept
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00:52:58amiconnThe font cache does not necessarily hold the whole font. With fonts covering larger parts of the unicode range, that's in fact rather unlikely
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00:55:36disorganizer@ amiconn : what part of the font will be cached? and which part not?
00:55:50amiconnThe glyphs which are needed are cached
00:55:57amiconn(lru cache)
00:56:09linuxstbdisorganizer: That's implemented currently (for a single font)
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00:56:45 Quit DefineByte ("Bye all")
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00:57:25disorganizerso atm there is a cache for the font which caches the glyphs used? so how will that be expanded to multifont?
00:58:57 Quit Jon-Kha (Remote closed the connection)
00:59:19*shotofadds needs some kernel help. I've got interrupts and tick tasks working on the D2, but the menu freezes almost immediately because sleep_core() seems to enter an infinite loop.
00:59:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:00
01:00:36shotofaddsunfortunately i'm kinda new to all this and don't really know where to look for clues.
01:01:11linuxstbdisorganizer: That's the hard bit, and why the multi-font patch won't be committed in its current form.
01:02:22disorganizer@ linuxstb : oic. which method does the mf patch use? caching the full fontfile?
01:02:59 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
01:03:58linuxstbdisorganizer: IIUC, it just has N separate caches, each caching 1 font. That's very inefficient - they should share the same buffer.
01:06:14disorganizerbut if each cache is a glyph-cache, this uses the same memory as having one cache for all of them. correct?
01:07:59linuxstbI mean you should have one cache full of glyphs from all the fonts, rather than many caches, which may not all be full
01:09:00amiconnmarkun had some ideas how to improve font caching
01:09:06linuxstbshotofadds: Let me ping jhMikeS on your behalf...
01:09:17soapHow are only the glyphs needed cached ahead of time? When a track is cached into the buffer are the glyphs pulled at that time for its (the track's) metadata?
01:10:03 Nick miepchen^schlaf_ is now known as miepchen^schlaf (n=miepchen@p54BF7261.dip.t-dialin.net)
01:12:33amiconnIt's an lru cache, and the glyphs that were cached last are written to a status file, and pre-cached at next boot
01:12:50disorganizer@ linuxstb : it could propably be possible to hold an array of all possible glyphs for each font, and only put pointers for the glyph into this array if it is cached in the combinded cache. whether this makes sense largely depends on how much memory an array of pointers for all possible glyphs would need compared to a cache for the font.
01:13:17amiconnIf you suddenly play a track for which some glyphs are not cached yet, the disk has to spin up, that's unavoidable
01:13:59amiconnI don't know whether this was retained when MoB was committed, but the playback engine used to look a the metadata when buffering, and trigger caching of the needed glyphs
01:14:19disorganizer@amiconn: i think soap had the idea of caching the fonts as soon as the metadata is loaded in the buffer
01:14:39soapwhoa - no ideas/suggestions here - just curious as to internal workings. ;)
01:14:46amiconnThat idea already *was* implemented. I'm just not sure whether it still is
01:15:04disorganizeri was so slow in typing :-)
01:15:28amiconndisorganizer: Do you know how many code positions unicode allows? I.e., forget your array idea...
01:15:54disorganizerno, thats why i ask :-)
01:16:04*shotofadds is going to sleep on it. I'll pick up any hints from the logs tomorrow.
01:16:08 Part shotofadds
01:16:21amiconnOn targets with smaller screens, the font cache is smaller than just an array of 64K pointers would be. And 65K is just the so-called "base multilingual plane" of unicode
01:16:59*disorganizer thinks dropping unicode support would propably be easier :-)
01:17:28*amiconn would rather not implement multifont than dropping unicode
01:18:17amiconnMultifont is mostly a gimmick (with the exception of dual font for targets with an lcd remote), while unicode support is true functionality
01:18:27disorganizerso i wonder how a combined cache could be implemented. somewhere it must be decided to which font the glyph belongs. and stored, of course. and also the font cache would propably need to be bigger than now, as glyphs will be reused the less the more fonts are used on the same screen
01:18:52*disorganizer thinks he needs to be carefully about what things he makes jokes ;-)
01:20:03 Quit piga ("Leaving")
01:20:53disorganizerthis makes me think: if 3 fonts are evenly used on a wps with text, wouldnt the resulting combined cache to hold all glyphs on the screen be almost as big as 3 caches holding the used glyphs for each font? i mean, we will anyways need more fontcache-space if we use multiple fonts
01:20:58Lloreandisorganizer: I don't know that it needs to be particularly bigger.
01:21:40LloreanThe more fonts you use, the less likely those fonts are being used for something dynamic. For example, if you pick a font for numbers, you'll only ever cache 11 glyphs from it, probably.
01:22:29LloreanIt could probably be expanded some, but there's going to be a point at which more fonts actually doesn't mean hardly any more cache space needed.
01:22:36amiconndisorganizer: It also depends on the font size
01:23:25amiconnIf you e.g. use a big font for titles and a small font for artist and album, and give both of them an equally sized cache, the former might already start swapping glyphs, while the latter isn't even full
01:24:25disorganizerwould dynamical handling of the cache help? rockbox could be able to identify a full cache and could dynamically give the full cache more space.
01:27:13amiconnRockbox has no malloc, and that's for a ton of reasons
01:27:59disorganizernow, how is it handled at the moment if i use the sysfont and another font in my wps?
01:28:20disorganizer(thats font 0 and 1 in the vp definition)
01:29:33 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
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01:30:49LloreanI imagine sysfont isn't cached since it's always in RAM anyway
01:31:38linuxstbYes, it's compiled-in (by definition)
01:32:27disorganizerso the main problem for mf implementation is indeed the caching....
01:32:51*linuxstb commits a patch to undo all his RAM wastage and waits for the deltas to come in...
01:33:38*disorganizer hopes linuxstb gets enough ram free so we can waste the gained ram for fontcaching ;-)
01:34:45Lloreandisorganizer: You don't free up RAM just to go and waste it. There still needs to be a good solution to the problem. :-P
01:35:11jhMikeSshotofadds: you must enable IRQ in core_sleep. have any pastebin of the code?
01:35:21disorganizersometimes the solution is more RAM :-) or more bandwidth ;-)
01:36:06jhMikeShmm...not here :\
01:36:42linuxstbjhMikeS: As he left, he said he would read the logs...
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01:37:09jhMikeSdeed
01:37:22disorganizerim still thinking about the dynamic buffersize. wouldnt there be possibilities to implement this without malloc?
01:38:29gevaertsdisorganizer: what people are against is not the name "malloc", but the concept
01:38:56Mouser_XSimilar question: If you have a plugin that needs 768 KB, as opposed to 512, would you have to stop playback to get the necessary memory?
01:39:07Lloreandisorganizer: How would it grow during playback without shrinking the playback buffer?
01:39:09disorganizera kind of linked list of glyphs, taking their memory from a combined pool (fixed size)
01:39:17LloreanMouser_X: Yes.
01:39:27gevaertsdisorganizer: where is that pool ?
01:39:37Lloreandisorganizer: If it's from a fixed size pool, why not just allocate it in advance?
01:39:50disorganizeri explain again:
01:39:54Mouser_XSo there's no way to provide that extra bit of memory, other than to stop playback and flush the buffer? Even though it's so little?
01:40:04disorganizeryou have a fixed size pool
01:40:17LloreanMouser_X: The memory can't appear out of thin air.
01:40:18disorganizerlets say an array of glyphs. lets say 20
01:40:28disorganizer@llorean: we have a font cache now.
01:41:10disorganizernow we define an array of pointers for each loaded fonts, size is 20.
01:41:50disorganizerif a glyph is used for a font, its put into the prereserved array into the next free position. and inside the "font-cache" a ponter is set for this glph to the array position.
01:41:51linuxstbMouser_X: If there was a plugin that needed 768K, then we could always increase the buffer size (if the plugin was worth it)
01:42:06disorganizerthat way we have a per-font cache of pointers and a combined cache of glyphs
01:42:35LloreanThere's no dynamically sized buffer in that description.
01:42:55Mouser_XLlorean: Hmmm. I was just asking out of curiosity.
01:43:03 Quit Horscht ("User was distributing pornography on server; system seized by FBI")
01:44:02disorganizer@llorean: well, a kind of. we do not use all 20 "pointer" places for some fonts, but the wasted bufferspace would be less. the dynamic buffer was just a dramatically simplified description
01:44:17LloreanMouser_X: Basically, playback claims all memory not reserved in advance for other things if it's active. And there's no good way to steal memory back from it while it's running.
01:44:30linuxstbCan someone remind me what the bin and RAM sizes include in the delta table, and why the average of those two deltas means anything?
01:44:48Lloreanlinuxstb: I never got that either. Shouldn't it be the sum?
01:45:14disorganizerand what about linked lists?
01:45:17gevaertslinuxstb: you need to keep score somehow
01:45:22amiconnThe sum would effectively include the ram delta twice
01:45:54linuxstbDoes the RAM delta include the bin delta? Or is it just the data/bss segments?
01:45:54Lloreanamiconn: How so?
01:46:01amiconn...because the binary is loaded to ram
01:46:08amiconn(except for rombox of course)
01:46:24LloreanSo the sum would include the binary delta twice.
01:46:27disorganizerwe start off with a list of empty glyph cache places. and a cached-glyph list for each font.
01:46:30linuxstbSo then isn't just the RAM delta by itself more interesting?
01:46:59amiconnBoth are interesting, for different purposes
01:47:03Mouser_XBuild Environment Question: If I setup cygwin on a Windows computer, and have all the stuff put onto a USB flash drive, and then put that flash drive into a Linux PC, would I be able to build Rockbox without any alteration to anything? (If I build from the directory that the build environment exists in)
01:47:14Lloreanamiconn: I think the real question is "is there any point where averaging them makes sense"?
01:47:17linuxstbI mean more interesting than the average of bin/ram. I understand they are both interesting.
01:47:21amiconnRAM delta is interesting because it tells how the audio buffer size will change
01:47:54amiconnAnd binsize delta is interesting because there are certain hard limits we do not want to hit
01:48:10gevaertsMouser_X: I think you should be able to do something like that
01:48:20linuxstbAnd the average of the two is interesting because.... ?
01:48:40amiconn(rombox size on archos, and .ajz size limit for the archos loader)
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01:49:23Mouser_Xgevaerts: Thanks. I might have to. The USB hardware on my laptop (where my current build environment is) is screwed up, and can't provide enough power to my USB wireless adapter.
01:49:34amiconnThe average in itself is not particularly interesting, but do you have a better idea how to indicate changes in either binsize or ram usage within a single table cell?
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01:50:09linuxstbAh, so it's there in case one of them doesn't change?
01:50:39disorganizerwere there thoughts about using linked lists of glphys for caching?
01:50:41*linuxstb thinks about what he just said...
01:51:08linuxstbI think I would just want the ramsize change in the box
01:51:15amiconnAnd as long as the ram usage only changes due to binsize change, the average is equal to that
01:51:59gevaertsdisorganizer: linked lists won't change much
01:52:39amiconnThe lru cache does use linked lists afaik
01:52:41*gevaerts thinks that linked lists would mainly increase RAM usage by four bytes per glyph
01:53:24*amiconn recommends disorganizer to take a look at lru.c, font_cache.c and font.c
01:53:25disorganizerwell, linked lists could allow a dynmic cache without malloc-like behaviour
01:53:45*disorganizer is no programmer and doesnt understand c, so that wont help
01:53:49gevaertsNot really. They just provide a different way to do the indexing
01:54:29disorganizerbut as i understood we do not have any indexing at the moment. and the problem is that a cache for each font would waste memory. so lists could help
01:56:49disorganizerwe start off with a linked list of glyphs to reserve memory for the cache. each fonts gets its own list, which we start of empty, representing the glyphcache for each font. if a font uses a glph its storage space is taken from the list of empty cache spaces, and linked in the font-glyphcache
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01:57:16disorganizerif we have no more free glyphspaces, we need to apply magic
01:58:10disorganizer:-) so what we do is from all cached glyphs we search for the oldes and reuse it. that way the font needing the most space will get more cache spaces, and the one using less glyphs gets less spaces
02:00
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02:10:19bwanannahmm
02:11:03bwanannaok so question on replacement batteries for iPod mini, who sells quality batteries
02:11:06bwananna?
02:11:39aliaskYou can find them resonably commonly on ebay, but I don't know about "quality"
02:11:40flax^Any ETA on rockbox for 6g iPod's?
02:12:11aliaskflax^: No. Nobody is working on it (that we know of). There are a number of serious hurdles to overcome before a port is even feasible too.
02:13:03flax^Ok
02:13:11flax^Sucks to be me then :<
02:13:22bwanannayea the last one i got on ebay was garbage, it was put togeather improperly so as it wouldn't fit into the ipod
02:14:43aliaskAre you sure you got the right battery then? I've bought replacement ipod batteries off ebay and never had a problem
02:15:21 Quit kushal_12_27_200 ("Leaving")
02:17:11bwanannayup
02:17:17bwanannaaccording to them it was correct
02:17:19 Part flax^
02:17:30bwanannabut in fact the daughter board on the battery was installed improperly
02:17:41bwanannathus making the physical dimensions just a little too big
02:18:18bwanannaliterally it was installed backwards!!!!
02:18:21bwanannagah
02:18:29aliaskDamn, that's annoying. Couldn't you send it back?
02:19:21bwanannawell
02:19:23bwanannaI could
02:19:36bwanannabut i decided instead of sending it back
02:19:45bwanannaI could resolder the component on properly
02:19:56bwanannabut accidently caused it to catch fire
02:19:58bwanannaheh
02:20:21aliaskHeh, I can imagine the look on your face... :)
02:20:26bwanannayea
02:20:50aliaskWhich country are you in? I know that in Australia a chain called jaycar often stock ipod replacement batteries.
02:20:53bwanannathose people are right about the lion batteries catching fire for sure
02:20:55bwanannaUS
02:21:00bwanannawe have a chain
02:21:14bwanannabut they cost 30 bucks
02:21:17bwanannatoo expensive
02:21:25bwanannafor a 560mAh battery
02:21:45bwanannai want at least a 700 for that price, but don't want to be ripped off again
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02:24:05bwanannasay, does rockbox util come with loader 1 or 2 currently?
02:24:07bwanannaknow offhand?
02:24:27aliaskIsn't loader the ipod linux bootloader?
02:24:46Lloreanbwananna: It comes with the official ROCKBOX bootloader, not the iPodLinux loader
02:26:10bwanannaoh
02:26:55bwanannawell anyway, rockbox is great software, thanks for all your work
02:27:00bwanannaand thanks for the help
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02:31:08*disorganizer is going to be now
02:31:13disorganizernite@all
02:31:24disorganizerbe=bed :-)
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02:45:09bwanannastrange
02:45:44bwanannathe rockbox bootloader gives me an ATA: -80 error, but loader 2 loads rockbox seemingly fine
02:53:30LloreanHow is your iPod partitioned and formatted?
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02:57:13elite23qhey dudes, im just wondering.. What does 'Rockbox' actually od?
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02:59:37bwananna Llorean : it is formatted however apple set it up
02:59:48bwanannathen installed with the rbutil
02:59:53Mouser_XOd? It doesn't od anything... If you want to know what it can do, check here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox
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03:00:14Lloreanbwananna: FAT32 or HFS+?
03:00:22bwanannai had itunes restore it before I installed rockbox
03:00:23bwanannafat32
03:00:31LloreanOriginal hard disk?
03:00:33bwanannagranted it is a compact flash
03:01:00LloreanThat would be the problem. You should try compiling and using the SVN bootloader, rather than the currently distributed one.
03:01:13bwanannaSVN should work huh
03:01:22Mouser_Xelite23q: Rockbox is meant as a replacement for the Original Firmware. It can do all sorts of things. That link I gave (above) is much better than me retyping everything.
03:01:49bwanannawell loader2 works fine
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03:02:08bwanannai'll just wait until a newer version of the rockbox loader is distributed
03:03:07bwanannadoes the current rockbox loader allow you to choose from a menu what you want to boot, IE. rockbox, disk mode, or apple firmware?
03:04:30krazykitno, but you can hold a direction on the wheel to choose.
03:04:54krazykitnot sure about how disk mode works, as i don't have an ipod, but the manual should be clear on the mapping
03:05:40Lloreanbwananna: Be aware that the iPodLinux loader has been known to cause strange and obscure problems in the past.
03:06:55bwanannaman
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03:40:12pigasaratoga: I talked to people of ArchC, and they told me that the ARM processor is not stable at version 2.0 of ArchC :(
03:40:44pigasaratoga: But they told me that this Simit-ARM (http://simit-arm.sourceforge.net/) is a good one
03:41:57pigait is GNU license and is coded in C++
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03:48:29kugellinuxstb: I've taken a quick look into parse_list now. For the font, it either sets vp->font to 0 or 1. But where is actually decided that 0 is SYSFONT and 1 is FONT_UI?
03:48:45kugelI admit, I'm trying to sync multifont
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03:51:38aliaskkugel: In firmware/export/font.h - "enum { FONT_SYSFIXED, FONT_UI, MAXFONTS };"
03:52:54kugelaliask: Thanks
03:54:34kugelgreat, looks like I can ignore the hunk
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03:58:16slackcubhow would I go about installing patches?
03:58:49aliaskslackcub: Take a read of this: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WorkingWithPatches
03:59:07slackcubthanks! I knew I was missing something...
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04:07:32slackcubok.. I guess I should have asked.. where can I get the source to apply patches to?
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04:08:15Mouser_XIt tells you in that link.
04:08:27slackcubit does.. guess i need to look closer
04:08:53Mouser_XI was thinking of a different one.
04:09:01Mouser_XSimpleGuideToCompiling
04:09:34Mouser_Xslackcub: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SimpleGuideToCompiling
04:09:55slackcubthanks
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04:19:45kugelI build rockbox in 61s, is that good?
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04:27:50kugelOk, I'm trying to compile the sim, but I get this error:"cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-fvisibility=hidden""
04:27:57aliaskA clean build of the main binary, plugins, codecs, langs, etc takes 3m41s on my box.
04:28:22kugelI formatted my disc recently, before that it worked
04:28:38kugelaliask: I guess 61s is good then :)
04:29:07aliaskDid you install the build system from rockboxdev.sh?
04:29:14kugelyea
04:29:25kugelthat doesn't install the sim build system anyway
04:29:47kugelBut I went trough http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UiSimulator#Building_Windows_sim_in_Linux
04:29:57kugelthrough*
04:29:58aliaskIt sounds like you have a wrong version of gcc or something
04:30:17kugelIt says "Using i586-mingw32msvc-gcc 3.4.5 (304)"
04:30:37kugelI'm pretty sure that it said "Using gcc 4.3" or something before formatting
04:30:52aliaskIs that the output from `gcc -v`
04:31:07kugel4.1.3
04:31:28kugel"gcc-Version 4.1.3 20070929 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.1.2-16ubuntu2)" to be exact
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04:32:02aliaskMmm. That should be fine - I'm running 4.1.2, but I doubt that'll be it.
04:32:25countrymonkeyIs 8737 in a state of commitability?
04:32:45kugelaliask: What does it say when you run configure for sim?
04:33:08aliaskkugel: I'm updating my svn atm, one that's done I'll check
04:33:40kugelyou can run another terminal window :/ you just need a source on your hd
04:34:18aliaskIt says it's using gcc 4.1.2 - so that's your issue
04:34:33aliaskAlso - mingw32 will create win32 binaries (are you trying to do that?)
04:36:01kugelno
04:36:10kugelI hit 50 and s for e200 simulator
04:37:20aliaskWell, a dirty hack to just get it compiling would be to edit the Makefile and change "export CC=____" to "export CC=gcc"
04:37:41aliaskBut that's not really solving the problem.
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04:45:08kugelaliask: isn't that the same when I do "make CC=gcc"?
04:46:33aliaskNo idea, didn't know you could do that.
04:47:43kugelAnyway, using gcc I get: "cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-mno-cygwin" "
04:50:04aliaskHang on, I just noticed that the link you provided earlier uses a version of SDL which is intended for windows targets.
04:50:21aliaskWill you be running the sim from windows or linux?
04:50:37kugellinux
04:50:43aliaskWell then.
04:51:07kugelCould be that I messed the wikis up, but I couldn't compile the sim without SDL
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04:51:55aliaskYou're going to want to uninstall that version of SDL, and apt-get install libsdl1.2-dev
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04:53:13kugelaliask: Hmm, I tried that before
04:53:26kugelHowever, I installed libsdl1.2-all
04:53:37aliask-dev is different, and required.
04:53:48kugelah
04:53:50kugelgreat
04:54:05kugelThanks, I though -dev is in -all integrated :)
04:55:09kugelthought*
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05:09:09countrymonkeyCould 8737 be committed?
05:19:29 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020710]")
05:22:21aliaskcountrymonkey: Well, for starters that patch that bookshare posted is broken.
05:28:58countrymonkeyI'm bookshare
05:30:56countrymonkeyIt patched perfectly fine.
05:31:58aliaskMaybe so, but it would create a broken .lang file - I'm not sure what went wrong with the patch creation process, but there are bits in the patch files like "+>>>>>>> .r16684"
05:32:16aliaskWhich certainly isn't valid .lang syntax.
05:40:34countrymonkeyI'm checking the patch and I removed 1 untranslated string. Can it be committed even though it still leaves the .lang file with 1 missing string? It is in latin script but IIRC English loan words were written in katakana.
05:42:20aliaskWhat's in latin script? The japanese strings should all be kana, not romaji
05:44:52countrymonkeyThe id in question is LANG_SELECTOR_COLOR_MENU.
05:45:12countrymonkeyThis has nothing to do with romaji.
05:45:24aliaskAh I see. So that's the untranslated string?
05:45:45countrymonkeyomoimasu.
05:50:14aliaskIf you could just sync the original author's patch cleanly I'd say it'd be likely to be committed.
05:50:43aliaskHaving one untranslated string isn't the end of the world.
05:51:33countrymonkeyshimashita
05:52:07aliaskAh cool, I'll take a look at it.
05:52:39countrymonkeyあらがとございます。
05:54:41aliaskThere's still a chunk in the patch which starts with "+<<<<<<< .mine" - it looks like it's duplicating a few strings in the lang. I'll remove that section of the patch so I can review it, but you should work out why it's happening.
05:55:47countrymonkeyMy intuition is telling me it has something to do with svn (although my intuition biorhythm is marked as bad)
06:00
06:03:56countrymonkeystill there?
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06:07:16aliaskYep. Still going through it all. (by the way, maybe your svn is out of date, try svn up)
06:07:53countrymonkeyI am doing a fresh svn co.
06:09:11aliaskThat's probably a better idea.
06:09:36countrymonkeyoh... I thought you would think it was a bit extreme.
06:11:14aliaskSometimes some of the stuff in a checkout gets confused in my experience and the only way I ever manage to get it sorted out is to do a clean checkout.
06:12:23countrymonkeydoshite?
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06:15:36aliaskI don't know why.
06:16:06aliaskBy the way, I edited your comment on the tracker with an updated patch without the "+<<<<<< .mine" section
06:16:22countrymonkeySory for taking so long to reply, my muscles are so cramped from ice-skating
06:16:37aliaskI'd like someone else to review the patch, but as far as I can see the patch looks in good shape now.
06:17:53countrymonkeyWhy don't you commit it?
06:18:29aliaskBecause I don't have the patience to go over it with a fine comb right at the moment :P
06:18:41aliaskAlso I have to go to work in 12 minutes. :(
06:19:23countrymonkeyIt's night here.
06:19:43countrymonkeyIf you're due at work by x:30, you better get a move on.
06:21:15aliaskI just have to leave then. But yeah, I should probably get ready.
06:21:56countrymonkeyWhen will you have time to check it?
06:22:29countrymonkeyIt's friday night here?
06:26:12countrymonkey4 minutes left
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08:44:01DerPapst"<Llorean> bwananna: Be aware that the iPodLinux loader has been known to cause strange and obscure problems in the past." In the past, but not in the present. Please stop telling everyone that our bootloader is utterly crap. It works fine also with rockbox. If people want to use it, let them.
08:44:24LloreanDerPapst: I said clearly "in the past"
08:44:29LloreanI've never said your bootloader is crap
08:44:32DerPapstIt's enough if you tell them it's not supported.
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08:45:26LloreanYour bootloader causes problems under other circumstances still.
08:45:36LloreanIt will load a Rockbox.ipod even if there's not a valid fat32 partition, for example.
08:45:50DerPapstYes, ut if they use the current version of Loader 2 there is really no nned to tell them that it had problems in the _past_
08:46:20LloreanWhat exactly is the problem? It's caused problems in the past. We cannot predict that it won't ever cause problems again.
08:46:21DerPapsts/ut/but/
08:46:29DerPapstthat can be fixed....
08:46:38*DerPapst opens a new task...
08:47:32LloreanFrankly, I see telling people that your bootloader is occasionally incompatible with Rockbox as "good practice"
08:47:34DerPapstsure. but the current versions do not cause any major problems. so i don't know why users have to know that it caused problems in the past.
08:47:42LloreanPeople should know that it's not our software, and not guaranteed to work.
08:47:53DerPapsti agree with that.
08:48:04LloreanI'd say "loading Rockbox.ipod, which then refuses to work because the iPod is not in a compatible state with Rockbox" a "major problem"
08:48:37DerPapstit would be enough that you tell them it's not supported and if they have problems direct them to us and tell them to use your bootloader.
08:48:50LloreanPeople come to us complaining because they get Rockbox error messages about being unable to find the .rockbox folder, when the problem is that Rockbox shouldn't have been booted in the first place.
08:48:53DerPapstBut that isn't the case currently.
08:49:15LloreanDerPapst: When did you fix that?
08:49:28DerPapsti meant the previous message.
08:49:29LloreanBecause as far as I know your loader will still loader rockbox.ipod from wherever they point it to.
08:50:03LloreanDerPapst: When did you fix "it loads rockbox.ipod from wherever a user asks it to" so that it refuses to load rockbox.ipod if there's no fat32 partition?
08:50:05DerPapstYes, it does.
08:50:24DerPapstAnd i said that is fixable
08:50:29LloreanYes, but it's not fixed.
08:50:36DerPapstand i'm going to open a taks about that.
08:50:41LloreanSo, _currently_ it causes strange and obscure problems under certain circumstances
08:50:49LloreanSo, technically, my "in the past" could've included an "in the present"
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08:51:25LloreanI don't see why you have such a problem with me saying it. It's not untrue, and it makes it clear to people that if they use it, and have strange problems, they should try ours first.
08:51:37DerPapstThough that is only because of the stupidity of the user (sure, it should be prevented). Other then that Loader 2 works fine with rockbox.
08:51:38LloreanSimply saying it's unsupported without saying *why* we suggest people use ours doesn't carry the same weight.
08:52:09LloreanWhether it works fine or not is irrelevant. We don't test our changes against it, so people should know strange bugs can crop up.
08:52:25LloreanWhen a dev makes a change, he boots it up on his ipod with Rockbox bootloader and tests it.
08:52:41LloreanHe doesn't also test it against yours, so he has no way to know if he's broken compatibility between the two again.
08:53:15DerPapstI understand that.
08:53:30LloreanSo what's the problem with me making a 100% truthful statement that it's caused compatibility issues in the past?
08:54:35DerPapstThe problem is that users may misunderstand your statement and think that it sill has major problems booting rockbox and that their success was just a coincidence.
08:55:26DerPapstSure our loader shoulkd check that rockbox is only loaded from a fat32 partition and that .rockbox is present.
08:56:06LloreanThe problem I've run into is that people don't understand that the bootloader can cause problems for Rockbox.
08:56:06DerPapstbut i don't think this are major problems
08:56:31LloreanWhen I tell people "try using the official bootloader or ask iPL to help" they tell me "but the loader is running Rockbox, so surely Rockbox is the problem"
08:56:52LloreanIf I tell them, in advance, that it's already caused problems, they know a little more about the situation: that the loader can, and HAS, caused problems.
08:57:49LloreanIf you'd like, I can add "it should work fine right now, but there's no guarantee the next commit won't break it again" so they also have a clear picture of present and future?
08:57:56DerPapstHm, well. I haven't read any posts about Loader 2 problems in the past so i guess you're right.
08:58:23DerPapstWould be nice, yes :-)
08:58:36LloreanDerPapst: I've dealt with dozens of problems caused by loader 2. Most especially when we've changed things about how the cores were initialized.
08:59:20LloreanBut as I said, the issue with it loading Rockbox.ipod from anywhere can cause some error messages that baffle support people who don't know what questions to ask.
08:59:37DerPapstHeh.. i guess that's the reason why linuxstb fixed Loader 2. Because you were annoyed by our users.
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08:59:50LloreanBecause your users don't realize the loader can cause the problem.
09:00
09:00:11LloreanNobody tells them clearly enough, apparently, "If you're using this with Rockbox, don't go to them for help without using their loader first to verify"
09:00:16DerPapstI'll see that these 2 issues get fixed.
09:00:20LloreanThanks
09:01:15DerPapstAnd i'll add yet another warning to our wiki about loading rockbox from Loader 2 and whom to ask questions if something goes wrong.
09:01:51LloreanThanks
09:02:13DerPapstThough our users give a ... about out wiki and blindly do what someone wrote in our forums..
09:02:18DerPapst*our
09:02:37DerPapstbut that's OT ;-)
09:02:47*DerPapst sighs
09:03:09*DerPapst apollogizes for his "good morning" rant.
09:03:31LloreanI'm just trying to make sure our users get as informed as I see as necessary. I assume enough intelligence that the fact I said "in the past" makes it clear it didn't include "in the present" or I'd say "may currently cause problems" instead. :p
09:04:01DerPapstheh.
09:04:59DerPapstmy experience is that you can't think stupid enough to predict the behaviour of some users.
09:05:46LloreanThe problem is, when I overexplain, I get accused of talking down to people. There's apparently a very fine line, and it's in a different place for everyone. Heh.
09:06:33*DerPapst remebers having read such post.
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09:16:34Mouser_X"There are two things that are infinite. The universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not so sure about the former."
09:16:46Mouser_X:P
09:17:14DerPapsthehe
09:18:39Mouser_XI think that's a quote from Einstein.
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09:35:47*DerPapst done with adding a warning to Loader 2's wiki page.
09:35:57DerPapsthave to go now. See you :-)
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09:47:44qwmwhat's the width and height of an ipod nano 1g (1.5" 4:3) display?
09:48:37linuxstb176x132
09:49:57qwmin millimeters. :P
09:50:14Mouser_XHeh.
09:51:53amiconnhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DeviceChart#Apple_units
09:51:54*Llorean thinks the 1.5" and 4:3 were enough for anyone with a calculator to get it in millimeters. :-P
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09:57:52qwmnot for someone who dropped out of school a few years ago. :(
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10:00:30*amiconn notices that there are at least 3 targets missing from that chart :\
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10:05:22tdtookelinuxstb, you there by chance?
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10:09:56linuxstbYes...
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10:19:32JdGordonlinuxstb: nice work :) how did you end up handling scrolling lines in the wps when the wps is left?
10:22:59linuxstbI don't... lcd_clear_display() (used by other screens) will stop all scrolling lines.
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10:51:20*JdGordon just looking at the multifont patch and doesnt think its done very nicely
10:51:37linuxstbJdGordon: I think we all agree on that...
10:51:59*amiconn would like to see the numerous viewport lists bugs fixed :/
10:52:34linuxstbJdGordon: There was some discussion of that here about 10 hours ago
10:52:36*JdGordon throws http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/ at amiconn
10:53:14JdGordonshouldnt it deal with actually being able to cache mutliple fonts than fiddling with individual screens and having multiple "userfonts"?
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10:55:45*JdGordon willing to be amiconn still hasnt looked at 8721 which works to fixing th ebutton bar problems
10:55:52linuxstbSure, but caching multiple fonts (efficiently) is hard, fiddling with the screens is easy.
10:57:19amiconnlinuxstb: We need to cache multiple fonts. Everything else would be extremely inefficient, power consumption wise
10:57:42*amiconn would *really* like to see markun's font caching improvement ideas
10:58:19JdGordonmy view is that the only change multifont brings is better caching support so each viewport has more options than the 2 loaded fonts
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10:59:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:02:45disorganizergoood morning :-)
11:03:01JdGordonprove it!
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11:04:01disorganizerwell, its sunny here and im in a good mood. so thats proove enough for me ;-)
11:05:22ender`i woke up to a snowy landscape :p
11:05:45*disorganizer hates snow
11:06:02ender`snow's ok - in the winter
11:06:22disorganizerno, i cant drive my motorbike when we have snow. so snow=bad
11:06:47ender`snow has never prevented me from driving my bicycle :)
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11:08:19disorganizerwell, its something different, dont you agree ;-)
11:10:22LloreanJdGordon: Stuff I've read says there should be a README.WinCE in the SDL source archive
11:10:45JdGordonI've read the same, I cant find anything recent though
11:11:08JdGordonthe closest I've found is the cegcc project which only has rpms and I failed compilng from source last time i tried
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11:11:21LloreanJdGordon: AFAIK, ScummVM is an SDL app compiled for Windows Mobile. You could see how they do it?
11:11:49JdGordonsame there, didnt find info
11:12:40JdGordonrockbox on my phone might mean i could stop shlepping my sansa + bt trnasmitter around :)
11:14:06JdGordonI think the scummVM guys do it using visual studio...
11:16:48LloreanJdGordon: http://sourceforge.net/projects/wince-xcompile/ ?
11:17:26linuxstbCan gcc be used to compile WinCE apps?
11:19:03JdGordonsupposedly it can
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11:19:39JdGordonthe other option of course is going back to having more than 1 sim framework
11:21:11linuxstbIMO, Rockbox-as-app is very different to the sims. They're targets in their own right, and should be adapted to integrate with the host OS, not just an SDL port.
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11:22:39LloreanI think I agree.
11:22:58LloreanYou have to deal quite a bit if different user interface constraints, and UI widgets anyway
11:23:21JdGordonyes and no
11:23:26linuxstbAlso, the sims attempt to simulate the Rockbox kernel - rockbox-as-app should use the host OS's kernel.
11:23:44LloreanYeah
11:25:40ender`rockbox as an application? i wouldn't mind running it on my mobile phone :)
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11:29:37PaulJamlinuxstb: is it not possible to have the peakmeter inside a viewport anymore with current svn?
11:30:00linuxstbIf it isn't then that's a bug...
11:30:05*linuxstb checks
11:30:11LloreanAny more?
11:30:24*Llorean didn't know %V was in long enough for there to have been a "previously able to" period. :-P
11:30:39linuxstbThe patch has been around a long time...
11:30:40PaulJamLlorean: the patch was there for a while
11:30:40pixelmafor patch testers..
11:31:06LloreanJust the phrasing of the sentence suggests that the "anymore" was applied to SVN, I guess.
11:31:38LloreanSince viewports themselves have been in SVN for a while, and I thought that the WPS itself was "a viewport" technically even before %V
11:32:09amiconnphew, no single warning from that moster :)
11:32:11amiconn*monster
11:32:46linuxstbPaulJam: I think I''ve found the problem - can you test a fix?
11:35:05PaulJamsure
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11:35:11linuxstbChange "int peak_meter_y = display->getymargin() + line * h;" in gwps-common.c to "int peak_meter_y = display->getymargin() + (line - data->viewports[v].first_line)* h;"
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11:36:11*linuxstb has a feeling that may not be right though...
11:39:13amiconnHmm, what naming convention would be better for the blit functions: lcd_<type>_blit, or lcd_blit_<type> ?
11:39:54amiconnRight now it's the former, with the exception of lcd_blit(), which should be called lcd_mono_blit(), and disabled for colour lcds
11:40:31LloreanI like lcd_<type>_blit myself. \
11:40:38linuxstbProbably lcd_blit_*...
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11:41:17amiconnMeh, very helpful ;\
11:41:19LloreanIt seems to me that "lcd_type" is description, and "blit" is function.
11:41:37linuxstbOr you group the lcd_blit_* functions together...
11:41:41amiconnNo, the type describes the blitting, not the lcd type
11:42:03LloreanAh, well if the type describes the blitting, after works for me.
11:42:14*Llorean thought it described the lcd
11:42:39amiconnMono and 2-Bit targets have lcd_mono_blit() and lcd_grey_phase_blit(), colour targets have lcd_yuv_blit()
11:43:12amiconn(the former does not yet actually use this name)
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11:44:22linuxstbThe other functions seem to (in general) use the verb first - lcd_update_*, lcd_put*, lcd_draw*, lcd_set/get etc
11:44:39PaulJamlinuxstb: in the uisim the peakmeter shows now.
11:44:48linuxstbPaulJam: Correctly?
11:45:35PaulJami currently don't se anything unusual
11:47:26PaulJami have to go now, but i'll read the log
11:47:50linuxstbOK, thanks for testing.
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11:49:28linuxstbLlorean: Seems I did manage to break the peakmeter since %V entered SVN... ;)
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11:49:58Llorean:)
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11:50:20Casainhohello Rockbox people :-)
11:51:10CasainhoI have a question: RB bootloader reads all full code of Rockbox in the fat file system to SDRAM and jump to ti?
11:51:18Casainhojumpt to it?
11:51:23Casainhojump to it?
11:52:01linuxstbYes, but not always. It can read it from ROM on some targets, or just branch to it directly in ROM (IIUC)
11:52:41CasainhoSansa players, do they read from rom?
11:52:53linuxstbNo
11:53:20Casainhoso, in the example sansa players, there is SDRAM that is ocupied just with RB code?
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11:54:17linuxstbI don't understand what you mean. Rockbox runs from SDRAM on the Sansas.
11:55:37Casainhoso, I think that there is SDRAM just occupied with Rockbox code... right? on targets that code is read from ROM, they have more free SDRAM, right?
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11:56:40linuxstbOn targets where the code is executed in ROM, yes. Other targets copy the code from ROM to SDRAM.
11:56:41Casainhoanother question: ata_init(); −− what it do?
11:56:55linuxstbinitialises the ATA hardware/driver...
11:57:44Casainhook - I am clear about SDRAM. About ATA, ti means also deal with FAT file system?
11:58:10linuxstbNo - that's separate. The ATA driver just deals with raw sector reads/writes.
11:59:04linuxstbSee firmware/common/disk.c and firmware/drivers/fat.c
11:59:33Casainhoand what about disk_init()?
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12:00:03linuxstbYou can read what it does in firmware/common/disk.c - that will be more accurate than my description.
12:01:04Casainhowell, I am in the beginning of writing a bootloader... at the bootloader stage, what does I need about disk, about flash memory?
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12:02:16Casainhoand about flash to SDRAM, this is just for ARM, can I write on wiki that all ARMs copy code from flash to SDRAM and them jump to it?
12:02:36linuxstbdisk.c and fat.c should be generic (i.e. you can forget about them). You'll need to implement your ATA driver.
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12:04:58linuxstbCasainho: It doesn't matter what other targets do - you need to do what makes sense for your device.
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12:07:46disorganizerany further development on the multifont-glyphcache front?
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12:08:09Casainholinuxstb: I was asking about ARMs because I will use an ARM
12:08:52Casainhoso I would like to know, by comparing, if using an ARM means that I will must copoy code from flash to SDRAM
12:10:05Casainhoand I must read more about ATA driver - can you please point me to some implementation, knowing that I will use NAND flash?
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12:11:55linuxstbWhether you need to copy code from flash to SDRAM doesn't depend on the CPU type.
12:12:32linuxstbdisorganizer: I don't think anyone is planning to look at it, at least no-one has said they are...
12:14:48disorganizer_too bad. would be a rather nice development which would propably get more people to use the original build (as the only "big" things left in the "custom" builds compared to the original are aa-resize and fonts)
12:17:27Casainholinuxstb: no? hmmm... so, whats make the need to copy to SDRAM and have less free SDRAM, in Sansas for example? −− I am always talking in Sansa because I have one
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12:20:08LloreanCasainho: Because there's no way to put Rockbox in the ROM yet.
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12:21:32CasainhoLlorean: when you say ROM, you mean flash?
12:22:40LloreanNo.
12:22:58linuxstbCasainho: I'm just saying _all_ our CPUs need code in RAM (or ROM/flash-ROM) to execute it. There is nothing specific to ARMs.
12:24:05Casainhowell, since I am trying to understand the bootloader duties, I would like to understand If is need to put code in SDRAM or not....
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12:27:58amiconnlinuxstb, Casainho: Well, all CPUs need code in directly addressable memory in order to execute it. That is *not necessarily* SDRAM, or RAM in general
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12:28:40amiconnIt can also be (flash) ROM, but not disk-like flash storage
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12:29:23Casainhoamiconn: so Sansa, for example, could have rockbox in one partition of the flash IC?
12:29:40amiconnFor instance, both on the archoses and the iriver H1x0 rockbox supports "rombox", that means running code from flash
12:29:48amiconnnope
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12:30:10amiconnRe-read my previous statement: "..but not disk-like flash storage"
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12:30:27domonokySansas flash drives needs a driver, so not directly addressable,and so no executing from this..
12:30:29amiconnThere's quite some misunderstanding regarding what flash memory is.
12:31:12amiconnThere are 2 types of flash, one type is directly addressable (nor flash), and one type that is only block addresable like a disk (nand flash)
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12:33:46amiconnThe main purpose of the rockbox bootloader is to boot rockbox. What steps that involves depends on the actual target, not just the architecture
12:34:16amiconnDepending on target, the bootloader should or even has to implement a few other things
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12:35:55amiconnExamples: On iriver, the bootloader has to implement dual boot, because rockbox itself doesn't implement flashing yet (well, except for H1x0 rombox which isn't supported by the official bootloader yet) and the iriver has no pre-loader we coud hook into. Hence it also implements a few safety measures, like a crash check cookie
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12:37:18amiconnOn iaudios, however, the bootloader is much simpler, because there's a pre-loader in flash rom which doesn't get deleted. Since that one handles flashing, usb etc., the bootloader is simple, doesn't have to support dual boot etc
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12:42:20SlasheriH1x0 implements full flashing support by rockbox
12:42:44Casainhowell, my target uses nand flash, so my question is answered :-)
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12:43:17Casainhoso, I must read code from nand flash on put it on SDRAM - I will write it on wiki :-)
12:43:37amiconnAlmost all targets have nor flash as well
12:44:06amiconnBut on many targets we either can't or don't want to put code there
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12:45:14amiconnIn some cases our bootloader is put there by an OF flashing routine (e.g. the mentioned iaudios)
12:45:14Casainhowell, on my target, there is some rom bootloader that can loads from USB an initial bootloader, I belive that having USB connection, we can always reprogram the target :-)
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12:48:13Casainhoanother question
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12:49:20Casainhoso, in "main-e200r-installer.c", where is the code to read rockbox from NAND flash and put it on SDRAM?
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12:50:39Casainho can't understand there when It reads code from NAND falsh to SDRAM and jump to it.....
12:51:00amiconnSlasheri: So rockbox is able to flash an iriver .hex file?
12:52:05Slasheriamiconn: not a .hex file yet but a .bin or a flashrom dump (with keeping the bootloader for safety measurements)
12:52:14linuxstbCasainho: That isn't a bootloader... See main-pp.c for the E200 bootloader.
12:52:20Slasheribut support for a .hex should be easy to add.. just adding the decrypting code
12:53:44Casainholinuxstb thank you :-)
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12:58:40*amiconn thinks that on a target where both the OF and rockbox support flashing, we should use the OF's flash file format if possible
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13:00:56Casainhoanother question: in the PP bootloaders, there is a call to i2c_init(); - why call i2c_init??
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13:01:36CasainhoI am confused - I will used I2C, SPI and I2S... I must init that communication protocols on bootloader stage?
13:02:30linuxstbThat depends on your hardware - e.g. if you need i2c init any hardware required for the bootloader's features to function (buttons, LCD etc)
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13:06:24*amiconn realised that (even bootloaderless) rombox should be quite simple to implement on iaudio
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13:18:36Casainholinuxstb: thank you - I will write this ideas on wiki page, right now :-)
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13:45:25shotofaddsjhMikeS: thanks for the core_sleep() hint. maybe "warning: core_sleep() not implemented, battery life will be decreased" should be rephrased "core_sleep() not implemented, your DAP will freeze" ;-)
13:45:43shotofaddsAs of today the Rockbox menu works on the D2....
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13:48:24linuxstb\o/
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13:58:06linuxstbNico_P: Around?
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14:07:33linuxstbIf anyone is interested, here's a first attempt at a simple implementation of image strips for the WPS - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/wps_strips_v1.diff
14:08:53linuxstbThis modifies the %xl tag to have an optional "number of subimages" parameter, and the %xd tag to have an optional "subimage to display". So for example, a bitmap with 10 subimages can be loaded with %xl|M|volume.bmp|134|153|10| and then the (e.g.) volume can be displayed with %?pv<%xdMa|%xdMb|%xdMc|%xdMd|%xdMe|%xdMf|%xdMg|%xdMh|%xdMi|%xdMj>
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14:17:15Lloreanlinuxstb: Horizontal strips, or vertical strips?
14:18:07linuxstbVertical
14:18:28amiconnThe iAudio remote has non-square pixels (!)
14:19:26amiconnThey're a bit wider than tall, but the deviation is smaller than on Archos (where the pixels are taller than wide)
14:20:00*amiconn just noticed this while adapting sudoku
14:20:40linuxstbThe M3 remote is just a standard iaudio remote? i.e. the same as the X5/M5 ?
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14:21:40pixelmayepp
14:22:42Nico_Plinuxstb: I am now
14:22:54Nico_Pcongratulations on the viewports commit :)
14:23:30pixelmalinuxstb: some ebay sellers claim it would be "for X5 and M3 - but not M5!" ;\
14:24:17linuxstbNico_P: Thanks. I wanted to ask you about my bitmap strips patch I've just posted a link to. i.e. if we can make %xdM by itself in a conditional be expanded by the parser...
14:24:54linuxstbpixelma: Why is that? Does the OF not support it on the M5?
14:24:58amiconnThe iaudio remote comes in 2 colours: silver and black. The silver ones are meant for the M3 and M5, the black ones for the X5 (and a few rare black M3's). Electrically they're identical
14:25:55pixelmalinuxstb: because they copy wrong information, I'm using the remote right now with my M5 right now - don't know about the original firmware though
14:26:03amiconnlinuxstb: Because someone started claiming this wrong info, and others just c&p nonsense instead of thinking/researching themselves
14:26:06pixelmas/right now//
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14:27:22Nico_Plinuxstb: I think it should be possible
14:28:10linuxstbNico_P: Do you think it's a good idea, or should I just stick with how my patch works (i.e. specifying the subimage explicitly)?
14:28:40linuxstbWith my current patch, you can share bitmap strips with different icons (volume, battery etc) if they are the same size
14:29:20Nico_Pspecifying the subimage explicitly is simpler I guess, but having only one image tag in a conditional is tempting and probably not too complicated
14:29:40Nico_Pwhat about allowing both?
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14:30:17linuxstbYes, I was thinking that.
14:30:50linuxstbThe code to parse the subimage tag in %xd is trivial, so it won't add much to allow both (assuming we want %xdM at all)
14:31:10 Part RaZorbacK
14:31:30Nico_Pif you have an easy way to know if an image has several subimages (sorry, I didn't have time to look at your commits), expanding it as several tokens shouldn't be very hard
14:32:18linuxstbYes, the gui_img struct now has a num_subimages field
14:33:00Nico_Pperfect then :)
14:34:09Nico_PI have to say I'm curious to see what WPS makers are going to come up with now that they have viewports... are there already some examples?
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14:35:19linuxstbBTW, if you have imagemagick installed, the "montage" utility is very useful for combining bitmaps - e.g. to combine 10 bitmaps, each 15x15 in size, do "montage -tile 1x10 -geometry 15x15 tile1.bmp tile2.bmp ... tile10.bmp combined.bmp"
14:35:34Nico_Pthat's good to know
14:35:48Nico_Pmight be worth mentioning on the CustomWPS page too
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14:41:18bgdwieEh, hello
14:41:37amiconnehlo
14:42:01bgdwiethe wikipage says i need to ask here for access before i can edit, is that correct? i wish to add some information about the creative zen vision m
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14:42:57Casainhohello agai nRockbox people
14:43:06bgdwiehi
14:43:45CasainhoI would like to know how the Rockbox bootloader for PP finish - "main-pp.c"
14:44:20Casainhowhat the main function should return? or It should not return?
14:45:08 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
14:45:39Casainhoor the "load_mi4_part();" will load Rockbox code to SDRAM and will not return?
14:46:19CasainhoI am trying to understand how Rockbox bootloader work and what It should do...
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14:50:54MichaelHahnhi, could someone give my wiki-account write access please? tnx.
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14:52:20domonokyMichaelHahn: done, promise not to spam !
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14:53:31Casainhowell, I wrote my ideas of way to bootloader in wiki page:
14:53:33Casainhohttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPlayerPrototype#Bootloader
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14:54:15PeterMitchellhey, could i have wiki write access please, i need to add information on the creative zvm(its hardware soem more)
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14:55:30domonokyPeterMitchell: promise not to spam ! :-)
14:55:34domonokyPeterMitchell: done
14:55:43PeterMitchellpromise, thanks
14:56:00MichaelHahn@ domonoky : promised, and tnx. will only upload a wps soon
14:56:08crazy_buscan anyone tell me the rss feed for rockbox svn. As I'm on a different computer and unable to find it via google
14:56:35PeterMitchellhey crazy, which part of nsw are you from and which target are you "tied" to?
14:57:19crazy_busPeterMitchell: manilla, near tamworth; new england north west.
14:57:35crazy_busPeterMitchell: you mean my audio player? If so sansa e200
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14:58:26PeterMitchellahh, ok, i'm from griffith, about 2 hours from wagga wagga, was just wondering because i have a spare creative zen vision m mainboard i have procured
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15:15:11*linuxstb wonders how the new rockbox-themes.org site is coming along
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15:16:35PaulJamlinuxstb: i just tried your wps_strips patch in the uisim and images that are shown with %x produce weird output. it seems as if random content from the wps-imagebuffer are shown instead if the correct bitmap.
15:16:57linuxstbPaulJam: That's odd - %x worked for me...
15:17:22linuxstbCan you see problems with any of the standard (SVN) WPSs?
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15:18:22PaulJamboxes looks wery weird (h300)
15:20:00pixelmaeh
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15:21:12*pixelma confused herself (and missed one thing to explain in the commit message)
15:23:26pixelmaargh.. and changed one thing too many. Fixing
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15:28:03linuxstbPaulJam: Yes, boxes looks a little wrong...
15:29:32*linuxstb is impressed with the size of the Arnold family's commits today... ;)
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15:31:18pixelmajust bloated mine with mime-type changes (and an 'oops' commit) ;)
15:31:19amiconnlinuxstb: Yeah, I'm actually working on my port... hint hint ;)
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15:34:45*pixelma also can't type today
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15:46:29barrywardellwhy is the credits plugin called "Version" in the System menu?
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15:55:47barrywardellor, rather, why doesn't it show the logo and version info on startup?
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15:58:10PeterMitchelldoes anyone know of a way to search for ics by topsie markings?
15:58:30Beta2KIt does show the version and logo on startup (atleast on my Gigabeat)
15:59:01 Quit barrywardell ()
15:59:01PaulJamlittle question about the %bp WPS tag which shows if the charger is connected: it returns "p" if the charger or the USB cable is connected, but even if charging over USB is disabled it returns "p". in my opinion if USB charging is disabled the USB cable doesn't really qualify as a charger.
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16:00:37barrywardellmaybe I just need to update the plugin. I think I might have separately updated the rockbox binary
16:02:20barrywardellyep, unzipping a new build makes the logo and version appear
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16:05:54knittlhi! how can i edit the FAT of a device?
16:06:01knittl(using linux)
16:06:36knittlok. hexedit seems ok... :)
16:06:58krazykitknittl, please note that this is an on-topic channel, and non-rockbox chatter should be taken elsewhere :)
16:07:29knittlit is rockboxx-related. i want to modify the FAT of my sansa so ##MUSIC# will show up
16:08:01krazykitdon't bother. the OF will just hide it again when you boot into it.
16:08:10knittlOF?
16:08:14krazykitoriginal firmware
16:08:15knittlfirmware?
16:08:23knittlhm, too sad. that sucks
16:09:02krazykitrockbox can display hidden items, though
16:09:08knittlanyways, i wanna do it :) and move all songs to a *normal* dir
16:10:02krazykityou don't need to do something silly like edit the allocation table for that. in your favorite file manager, just type in the full path to music and you should see the songs and such.
16:10:20knittlhm, that doesn't look like a fat...
16:10:46knittlno. ##music# has a 0x18 flag
16:10:53knittldir and disklabel
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16:11:07knittldisklabels won't show up in a normal filebrowser
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16:11:47krazykitoh, i see. ##MUSIC# is different from "Music"
16:12:19knittljap :)
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16:22:36knittlwhere in the forums can i find info about this ##music# folder?
16:23:00knittlgot it xD
16:23:52PeterMitchelldoes anyone know of away to search for ic s by their respective top-side markings?
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16:25:48*disorganizer___ hates his wireless router
16:26:12PeterMitchellwhts wrong with it?
16:26:29PeterMitchelldrops connections ey?
16:26:40*BigBambi points at the topic
16:26:59*PeterMitchell shys away from questions
16:31:07disorganizer___PeterMitchell: how could you guess :-)
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16:32:12knittlcan anybody give me i tip how to edit the fat of my device?
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16:40:18knittlok, i think i managed it
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16:45:25knittlYAY! it worked
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17:00:48knittlshhhht ;)
17:03:30PaulJamlinuxstb: another problem concerning the wps_strips patch: it seems when the image changes the area of the whole size if the strip gets cleared, not only the size if a single image from the strip.
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17:12:43knittlk. bye for now
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17:27:53Phill_linuxstb: A possible bug in the viewport wps parser: when checking viewport width it checks (vp->x + vp->width) >= LCD_WIDTH. Should this not be just greater than?
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18:55:35CasainhoBagder: hello :-)
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18:57:51mcuelenaerewhat happened to SVN?
18:58:01CasainhoBagder: I saw your message in the forum - I have a question: in the "main-pp.c" bootloader file, where finish the bootloader?
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18:58:43Casainhois in the "return (void*)loadbuffer;"??
18:58:50linuxstb_It returns to crt0-pp.S
18:59:18linuxstb_The PortalPlayer bootloaders are special though - they need to deal with both CPU cores.
18:59:38linuxstb_Normally, a simple branch to the OF from the bootloader .c file would be enough.
18:59:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:59:56linuxstb_I meant crt0-pp-bl.S
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19:00:05linuxstb_(in firmware/target/arm/)
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19:01:44linuxstb_mcuelenaere: Yes, I can't access it either...
19:02:04gevaertsThe connect seems to hang
19:02:24*linuxstb_ hopes the Swedes haven't gone away for the weekend...
19:03:50Casainholinuxstb_: I just have one ARM core... - can you please point me the last instruction in the main(); if the firmware is read with sucess
19:03:52Casainho?
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19:04:56linuxstb_Casainho: You should really look at different bootloaders... The return() in main() returns to crt0-pp-bl.S which branches both cores to the OF.
19:06:07*gevaerts sees a fresh forum post from Bagder, so a least one Swede is not too far away :)
19:07:46Casainholinuxstb_: why "return (void*)loadbuffer;" , why the loadbuffer? a null pointer? - sorry my C knowledge :-)
19:08:21gevaertsCasainho: loadbuffer is a pointer to the loaded firmware
19:08:28linuxstb_That returns a pointer to the start of loadbuffer - which is where the firmware was loaded.
19:09:15Casainhoah, okok :-) - I understand now - It's important for me to understand what bootloader does, where it starts and end, also what is inputs and outputs :-)
19:09:38*gevaerts has his doubts about the strict validity of void* main(void)
19:10:16linuxstb_gcc doesn't seem to mind
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19:13:00Casainholinuxstb and gevaerts, can you please read http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPlayerPrototype#Bootloader and tell me what you think about this strategic, and what about "What Rockbox bootloader must do" ??
19:14:22*gevaerts can't find his C99 standard draft pdf, and can't find the proper main() rules in K&R
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19:16:07gevaertsCasainho: I'm not a specialist, but I think I would let u-boot load rockbox directly.
19:16:36Casainhogevaerts: well, Bagder said the same :-)
19:17:03linuxstb_3 bootloaders does seem excessive...
19:17:25CasainhoI will work on that - but, the points in "What Rockbox bootloader must do" are ok?
19:18:24Casainhook, so, If U-boot can also work as Rockbox bootloader, I will use just 2, bootstrap and u-boot
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19:19:08linuxstb_Casainho: Have you started building the hardware yet?
19:19:16gevaertsThe various init_*() functions are just to make sure that all hardware that the bootloader itself needs is initialised. Which hardware that is depends on your platform.
19:20:21Casainholinuxstb_: well, I don't have developemnt board yet, It were shiped to me a few days ago - the first thing I will try to do, is in the bootloader flash a LED :-)
19:22:49Casainhogevaerts: so, is just a question of have buttons, LCD and ATA driver(to load code from flash) and return a pointer to the start of the loadbuffer? :-)
19:23:35gevaertsCasainho: as far as I can see, yes.
19:24:29Casainhookok - I will work on that :-)
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19:24:44Casainhothank you :-)
19:26:55linuxstb_PaulJam: Good spot with the image clearing. I've also found the bug with %x (it was a last-minute change I made before publishing the patch).
19:28:52linuxstb_PaulJam: If you want to test - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/wps_strips_v2.diff
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19:29:23PaulJamthanks, ill test.
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19:37:37*linuxstb_ notices SVN is alive again
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19:41:30PaulJamlinuxstb_: the %x works now and the wrong clearing is fixed too, but there is another issue:
19:43:14 Join Mathiasdm [0] (n=Mathias@d54C597B6.access.telenet.be)
19:44:25PaulJamwhen using conditionals inside another conditional sometimes an image isn't cleared when it should be. in my wps i use "%?mh<%?mr<%xdfa|%xdfb>|%?mr<%xdfc|>>". when i enable and then disable the main hold then the image appears and then dissappears again. if i do the same with the remote hols, then it doesn't dissapear again.
19:45:21PaulJamwhen i use normal imagetags ("%?mh<%?mr<%xdA|%xdC>|%?mr<%xdB|>>") then everything works normally.
19:46:39 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
19:47:27PaulJamto workaround it i can easily add a blank image to the strip, but i think this shouldn't happen.
19:48:16linuxstb_Is that specific to this patch?
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19:49:34linuxstb_Sorry, ignore my question...
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20:18:54linuxstb_PaulJam: I can at least duplicate that.... i.e. loading a 3-bitmap hold image with %xl|G|hold.bmp|165|6|3| and then using %?mh<%?mr<%xdGc|%xdGa>|%?mr<%xdGb|>>
20:19:23linuxstb_(toggling remote hold then doesn't clear it)
20:20:35linuxstb_OK, fixed...
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20:21:32linuxstb_PaulJam: New patch - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/wps_strips_v3.diff
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20:33:38PaulJamlinuxstb_: thank you, with the new patch it is fixed.
20:34:37linuxstb_You're welcome. Thanks for the bug reports and testing.
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20:46:30shotofaddsmethinks the build server needs a kick
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20:59:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:00
21:01:13 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
21:11:00Bagderwe get the weirdest svn hangs
21:11:30Bagderstrace -p 4845
21:11:30BagderProcess 4845 attached - interrupt to quit
21:11:30Bagderread(3, <unfinished ...>
21:11:41Bagderand there it hangs...
21:13:56linuxstb_Did you notice the SVN server was unavailable earlier today?
21:14:02Bagdernope
21:14:08BagderI've been away
21:14:26linuxstb_Connection attempts just seemed to hang
21:14:32Bagderabout at what time?
21:14:33linuxstb_And then it fixed itself...
21:14:49linuxstb_About 6pm GMT
21:15:13linuxstb_It was back at 6.37pm GMT
21:15:21Bagderthe hanging svn in the build server was done at 16:38 GMT
21:15:29BagderI wonder if that's related
21:15:38linuxstb_It's possilble SVN was broken then - I didn't try
21:16:23 Quit bertrik ("bye")
21:16:57*XavierGr just won a c240 on ebay. Hopes it is a version 1 :\
21:18:32XavierGrThe deal was good though, 23€ plus shipping.
21:19:38XavierGrcan someone recognise what version is it: http://tinyurl.com/2rdpcx
21:19:45*BigBambi just bought a c240 from bankrupt stock, and similarly hopes it is a v1 (for £13 + shipping, as per the forums link)
21:19:58XavierGrI couldn't tell but even if it is a version 2 it is not a great loss
21:20:31XavierGrBigBambi they don't ship in Greece and with the shipment it comes about 40€ from this site
21:20:40BagderXavierGr: I don't think it is possible to tell based on that little info
21:20:49XavierGrSo I chose to buy from eBay
21:21:13XavierGrBagder: yes, I thought that too, but what the hell it was only for 23 euros.
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21:21:31Bagder:-)
21:21:54BigBambiYeah, it cost me £16 ($32, €21) in total to the UK
21:22:46XavierGrmaybe I could help with porting to Rockbox if it is a version 2 (If I finally don't procrastinate Rockbox coding again :( )
21:23:35Bagderthe v2 effort could use some new blood
21:23:57*Bagder downloads the S5L8700X data sheet...
21:24:22Bagdernice "Samsung Confidential" text all over it
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21:28:00XavierGrI guess it isn't so "confidential" any more :)
21:28:21Bagderthose meizu hackers seem to be able to rip out many secrets
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21:36:45Bagderthe data sheet is a bit weird though since it is said to be "Preliminary Spec" and the TOC only lists 9 chapters while the file contains 30
21:37:41Bagderand really nothing about how it boots other than it is possible to select from where to boo: ROM or NOR flash
21:37:49Bagders/boo/boot
21:39:15linuxstb_Presumably it just boots by executing the code at 0x0, and you therefore either map ROM or NOR flash to 0x0?
21:39:34Bagderyes I guess
21:40:55linuxstb_What does it mean by ROM though? Is there a boot ROM embedded/
21:40:56linuxstb_?
21:41:04BagderI don't know!
21:41:33linuxstb_Any NOR flash embedded?
21:41:54*linuxstb_ wonders what the datasheet does contain...
21:41:55Bagder"50K Byte embedded ROM"
21:42:04linuxstb_Ah, that sounds like a boot ROM...
21:42:17Bagderthey have a fine 100 pages wasted on ARM940T instructions...
21:42:25linuxstb_Useful...
21:42:58Bagderbut no embedded flash at all it seems... 256K SRAM
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21:48:58linuxstb_Kbytes?
21:49:00 Quit midkay_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:49:11Bagderyes
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21:56:23*shotofadds thinks fire.rock looks neat on his D2 :-)
21:56:40Bagder:-)
21:56:52BagderD2 goodness!
21:57:01shotofaddsvery goodness!
21:58:25shotofaddsMaking this thing usable is going to be a long job though...
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22:00
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22:00:18shotofaddsplasma is nice and smooth
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22:01:09linuxstb_Is your flash reading any more reliable?
22:02:42shotofaddscurrent version is much better than svn, but not perfect yet
22:02:57shotofaddsspeaking of which, how can I tell Rockbox the device is read-only?
22:03:58*gevaerts guesses that flash writing is not reliable yet ;)
22:04:06BagderI don't think there's an easy way to make it read-only
22:04:06 Join tarbo [0] (n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo)
22:04:19Bagderother than commenting out writing or similar
22:05:14shotofaddswriting to the NAND won't be happening in the short or medium term, so I need to think of some alternatives...
22:05:33shotofaddseg. potentially making the SD card the primary drive
22:06:23 Quit midkay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:20:34 Join Chronon [0] (n=knoppix@c-71-236-147-148.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
22:23:38ChrononAny objections if I lock the MR-100 topic in the New Ports forum?
22:24:16linuxstb_I was about to suggest that, but I don't know the state of the port - i.e. are there still things that need to be discussed there?
22:24:27BigBambiWe have an install forum for it now
22:24:39ChrononI'm not sure. The only posts recently have been off topic.
22:24:58BigBambiAnd we offer a download and the manual
22:24:59ChrononA developer can always unlock it if they need to discuss further.
22:25:16BigBambiMy view would be to go ahead
22:25:21Bagdermine too
22:25:25Chrononok. Will do.
22:25:54BigBambiPerhaps put a note at the end of the thread saying now supported, ask questions in the main forums etc
22:26:20BigBambiEmphasising only install/uninstall in the specific forum :)
22:26:37linuxstb_That install forum is busy...
22:26:55BigBambiSoon my pretty...
22:27:59linuxstb_Wow, that C240 offer (12.99 GBP) mentioned in the forums is tempting...
22:28:01ChrononBigBambi: done.
22:28:13*gevaerts isn't tempted by that ;)
22:28:18BigBambilinuxstb: I bit
22:28:24BigBambiChronon: coolio
22:28:48BigBambilinuxstb: They also have the version without radio for a tenner
22:28:54linuxstb_Anyone know what the FM radio is like on it? (assuming it's supported in Rockbox)
22:29:36BigBambiIt is supported but detection is sometimes a bit dodgy
22:29:44BigBambi(from what I heard)
22:29:47Chrononlinuxstb: I have my doubts. I'm not terribly impressed by the e200 radio.
22:30:10BigBambiSo it works OK as far as DAP radios go, but sometimes won't be there when you boot
22:30:28BigBambilinuxstb: pixelma will be able to tell you more
22:31:33pixelmaas BigBambi said
22:32:08linuxstb_pixelma: Is the quality OK (when it works) ?
22:33:17pixelmait's ok, I have the impression the my Ondio's radio (a new one with that TEA chip) is very slightly better
22:34:04pixelmaso as BigBambi said ok for a DAP
22:34:43gevaertsThe one in the H320 seems to have better reception
22:35:18*gevaerts is busy comparing them
22:36:41*linuxstb_ notices the website charges 75 GBP to ship a c200 to Sweden...
22:36:53Bagderhahaha
22:36:56BigBambinice
22:38:00Chrononthat's utterly shameless
22:38:24gevaertsFrom what I'm hearing, the c200 radio is good for strong/close stations, but only picks up noise for fainter stations that the H320 still picks up.
22:38:42disorganizernite @ all
22:38:58 Quit disorganizer ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]")
22:40:41*linuxstb_ resists the temptation
22:42:20*gevaerts thinks that linuxstb_ needs more players to test Squibble on
22:46:11linuxstb_It's quiddle...
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22:46:52*gevaerts runs fsck /dev/brain
22:47:15Bagderremember to unmount it first!
22:47:43gevaertsOh! Now I'm in trouble...
22:47:50ryanhamelhow do i convert hfs+ to fat32
22:48:18ryanhamel!seen bagder
22:48:25ryanhamelhello
22:48:35ryanhameli'm leaving .........
22:48:55linuxstb_ryanhamel: Are you on Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, ... ?
22:49:10ryanhamelmac hfs+ duh
22:49:19ryanhamelconvert it to fat32
22:50:33BigBambiryanhamel: I'm assuming you are converting your iPod from HFS+ to FAT32, in which case the OS of your computer was a perfectly reasonable question.
22:50:48ryanhamelyes
22:51:24ryanhameland i can find the guide BUT, it saids to read the manual but i don;t know where to look in the manual
22:52:22BigBambiRead this: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodConversionToFAT32 and next time try not to be rude to people when they ask reasonable questions in the process of trying to help you
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22:56:35 Part pixelma
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22:59:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:00
23:01:37 Join dannymill000 [0] (n=danrules@cpe-74-67-222-39.twcny.res.rr.com)
23:02:10dannymill000heu
23:02:12dannymill000hey*
23:02:51dannymill000is there a tutorial anywhere on how to make your own theme for rockbox?
23:03:02BigBambiwww.rockbox.org/wiki/CustomWps
23:03:18BigBambihttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodConversionToFAT32
23:03:18dannymill000ty
23:03:21BigBambigood damn
23:03:32BigBambidannymill000: www.rockbox.org/wiki/CustomWPS
23:04:01BigBambiThe randomness of case mixing in wiki names always gets me (add through in a mistaken paste too)
23:04:23BigBambiAnd a misspelling of god
23:04:30*BigBambi goes to stand in the corner
23:04:35dannymill000lol
23:04:39 Quit dannymill000 (Client Quit)
23:05:15*gevaerts recommends BigBambi to use this fsck thing
23:05:40BigBambiI have other problems, I can't get my brain to mount in the first place
23:06:52linuxstb_Must be that dodgy UMS driver
23:07:21*gevaerts hides
23:07:57BigBambiIt seems to work fine, but sometimes when I try to write data to my brain it becomes corrupted
23:08:13gevaertsHave you tried a different cable ?
23:08:40BigBambiLet's stay well away from trying front or back ports
23:08:41Chrononmount: can't find /dev/brain in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab
23:08:54ChrononBigBambi: LOL
23:09:03 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:09:11shotofaddsBagder: what do you say to adding the D2 boot/main builds to the table? There's a stack of warnings at the moment, but we can work on those...
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23:12:08codesquidgevaerts, i'm done testing the recharge behaviour on e200
23:12:27gevaertscodesquid: great. What did you find out ?
23:12:29codesquidunmodified rockbox build does not charge the battery
23:12:41 Quit fasmaie (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:12:43codesquidcompiled with USE_ROCKBOX_USB does not charge either
23:12:51codesquidthen I reverted 16611
23:13:26codesquidthen it only charges if starting with cable plugged in
23:14:37gevaertsOK. So it seems that either something that starts later in the boot process uses too much power, or something happens that disables charging
23:18:06barrywardellthe as3514 probably controls the charging
23:18:20BigBambiThere is a patch for e200 charging somewhere in the tracker
23:18:25barrywardelland there's an indication it's charging state in the debug screen
23:18:57barrywardelldebug I/O ports screen
23:19:57codesquidthe value named CHARGER is always "00/00" (unplugged) or "00/20" (plugged in)
23:20:00BigBambihttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8363
23:21:40BigBambiand c200 too
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23:22:42barrywardellthe first 00 means the as3514 is limiting charging to 50mA, 3.9V
23:22:59barrywardellassuming the e200 uses the as3514's charging circuit
23:23:42codesquidok, the voltage is about right
23:24:06codesquidwhile discharging the voltage is around 3.8V at max
23:25:47codesquidbut why does it charge up to full if starting with cable plugged in and 16611 reverted? If the charging circuit is left unconfigured by rockbox it would mean original bootloader does configure it?
23:26:12 Quit barrywardell ()
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23:27:05 Nick hannesd_ is now known as hannesd (n=light@p5B16400F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
23:27:19codesquidI'll try out the charging patch
23:30:17 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
23:30:47linuxstb_Does anyone have any opinion on my bitmap strips patch? I'm thinking of committing it...
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23:35:56feindbildHi =) After upgrading to r16751 on a sansa express rockbox won't start and displays: Undefined instruction at 0013F0C8 (0)
23:36:19feindbild*g* ... not sansa express ... sansa e270 ...
23:36:31linuxstb_When did you last update?
23:36:50feindbildlinuxstb_: in january I believe ^^
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23:43:08feindbildis there maybe something I can try to fix it?
23:43:32gevaertsfeindbild: you can always try an older build
23:47:07 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
23:48:36codesquidBigBambi, thanks for pointing out the charging patch, trying it now
23:48:36 Quit bughunter3 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:49:12BigBambicodesquid: No worries, I hope you can carry it forward :)
23:49:27 Quit nplus ("Leaving")
23:52:37 Quit bughunter2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:56:04kugellinuxstb_: which bitmap strip were you talking about?

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