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#rockbox log for 2008-03-23

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00:10:11linuxstb_If you want to try the path, the latest is here -
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00:17:23 Quit Horschti ("I am root. If you see me laughing, you better have a backup")
00:18:19kugellinuxstb_: Subimages?
00:18:49kugelLike icon sets? They consist of 1 bmp, which contains several icons
00:20:13linuxstb_Yes - just like the icon strips. e.g.
00:22:05Lloreanlinuxstb_: What do you think about, for volume, battery, and things like that, using a method similar to the progress bar where a portion of one image is revealed, rather than using multiple images?
00:22:25LloreanIt seems like your method might speed up WPS loading, but not really address the "I have too many images to fit into memory" problem at all.
00:23:49linuxstb_That sounds like a different problem
00:24:09 Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht)
00:26:04 Join ol_schoola_ [0] (
00:28:52kugellinuxstb_: I wonder if your parse_list function would work well with the multifont solution 1
00:30:16 Join djzn [0] (n=DJB@
00:30:35linuxstb_What do you mean? It already does.
00:31:02djznhello... didn't anyone think of a "rockbox" for mp3-capable static DVD-Players? It is surely missed!!! Why only "portable" players???
00:31:26gevaertsdjzn: you're welcome to work on that ;)
00:31:47djzni mean, is it possible?
00:31:48kugellinuxstb_: if the fonts were defined in the global config
00:32:10ryanhameli got a solution for hfs+ to fat32
00:33:25djzngevaerts: would it be possible?
00:33:33ryanhameltake a ipod to a windows computer, restore it, when it get's to the part where you name it you click cancel or eject it, then set it up in itunes on the mac. It will keep the fat32 partition but you can't update it
00:33:54Lloreandjzn: Depends an awful lot on the hardware itself.
00:34:03ryanhamelremember what i said here folks
00:34:10krazykitryanhamel, yes, that's the easy way to do it. if you're on a mac or in linux, though, it won't work
00:34:39gevaertsdjzn: I would expect that most dvd players are not capable of running rockbox, but I don't actually know
00:34:43linuxstb_ryanhamel: That's why I asked you which OS you were using...
00:34:54ryanhameli am on my macbookpro and it works fine with what i told you
00:35:06djznLlorean: SONY players have a own-designed software to play the MP3/JPEG. ENCORE players for example they have this "generic" software. Would it be harder to break the Sony one?
00:35:16linuxstb_ryanhamel: Yes, the wiki page you were pointed to tells you that.
00:35:34krazykitdjzn, that's really impossible to say. it just depends on what the software designers did.
00:35:42 Quit ender` (" Connection Reset by Gypsies with Wire Cutters")
00:35:51Lloreandjzn: Really, this is something you'll have to actually investigate, not something anyone here can tell you.
00:35:55djznkrazykit: is it possible to reverse-engineer it?
00:36:17krazykitdjzn, like Llorean said, you'd have to investigate it yourself.
00:36:24djzni know but
00:36:40djzndoes rockbox need any "layer" of "mini-OS" to run on the hardware?
00:36:54ryanhamelno, it tells you to name it on the windows computer
00:36:54djznor in theory could it be applied to any piece of hardware?
00:37:07krazykitdjzn, in theory, it could work on any hardware, provided you write the drivers for it.
00:37:24gevaertsdjzn: no. It can run on any hardware that has enough RAM and CPU
00:37:44djznwould the most problematic thing the "flash-memory" upgrade feature - something that these corporations keep in secret?
00:38:10linuxstb_ryanhamel: So you're saying it doesn't work if you name it on the windows computer?
00:38:11krazykitthat and undocumented hardware, most likely.
00:38:27gevaertsdjzn: that's one of the problems, but certainly not the only one
00:38:29ryanhamelthen it would not sync
00:38:49djznwe've got thousands of DVD-Players around and no one ever thought of breaking one?
00:39:28ryanhamelwhen the computer is done restoring the apple os (not naming it or anything else)
00:39:46ryanhamelplug it in to a mac itunes then name it, and then it will sync
00:40:47gevaertsdjzn: rockbox is mostly interested in portable players. And as I said before, I doubt if the average dvd player has a cpu and RAM that can handle rockbox
00:40:53codesquiddjzn, I guess most of the people capable to actually code software for DVD-Players don't really use them ;)
00:41:44djzngeaverts: ok, how much RAM and CPU should be enough to rockbox and how much of it you guess DVD-Players come with?
00:42:01kugeldjzn: I recently came to the same idea, rockbox on my DVB-T receiver :)
00:42:21Lloreandjzn: Seriously, why all the requests for guesses, they do you absolutely no good.
00:42:53djznLlorean: I think the developers are under-estimating the use of the static DVD-Player... in some places they are the only thing that plays something
00:43:12JdGordonhow many dvd players allow ou to upgrade their firmware?
00:43:19Lloreandjzn: That doesn't answer my question in any way, form, or shape.
00:43:25HorschtI seriously know only a small ammount of people that still use a stand alone DVD player
00:43:26kugelmy dvb-t receiver does :)
00:43:44Horschtmost people either have an xbox with XBMC on it, or a media center PC
00:43:44djznJdGordon: I know a lot of them... Philips, Sony, Samsung all have firmware upgrades
00:43:55gevaertsdjzn: there are even more cassette players, but that doesn't mean it is possible to run rockbox on them
00:44:07codesquidI can't think of anything a PC cannot do far better than a DVD Player
00:44:30djznwe don't want to live in front a PC all the time, do we?
00:44:32Lloreancodesquid: "Do the same job, cheaply"
00:44:35gevaertscodesquid: being cheap ?
00:44:38Horschtplus, media centers can now look awesome
00:44:40Lloreandjzn: PCs can be hooked up to a TV.
00:44:40*JdGordon would love to wathc codesquid type an essay on his dvd player!
00:44:56*amiconn doesn't agree with Horscht, but that's OT...
00:44:56*JdGordon misread
00:45:22Horschtisn't like 99% of all this OT, anyway?
00:45:23codesquid"having 1 pc" vs. "having 1 pc and a dvd player", what's cheaper? ;)
00:45:34Lloreandjzn: As it stands though, Rockbox was designed as a replacement firmware for MP3 players. The people who work on it right now were attracted to it specifically because of what it is. If you want to port it to DVD players, that's fine, but odds are good you're going to need to do an awful lot of work.
00:45:50kugelcodesquid: Not all people are willing to buy a pc just to watch dvds
00:46:06codesquidkugel, how to get rockbox on those dvd players without a pc?
00:46:07djznyou could be really big, you know
00:46:27Horschtfriends, codesquid
00:46:33kugelcodesquid: there are many ways
00:46:37Horschtfriends with PCs
00:46:50 Quit DrMoos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:47:32codesquidhmm dunno if that would be a successful model to spread dvd player firmware
00:48:09Horschtit's not a model to spread it, it's a model to get it on your player
00:48:15kugelcodesquid: The main thing is, that a DVD player is small, much smaller than a common PC (and thus fits better in a living room). You don't need to wait mintues to boot it up, you don't need to mess with malware. There are many more reasons for a DVD player
00:48:49Lloreankugel: PCs can be designed as small as most DVD players, and with hibernation can boot up as fast as many do.
00:48:50kugelbut that's really OT now! My conclusion is that it's certainly possible to run rockbox, and that it would be cool, but it should not be the object for rockbox to run on those stuff
00:48:55codesquidno doubt that having a free open source dvd player firmware would be useful, I'm however concerned about the "need" to have it
00:49:06Horschtbut then again, people that buy a DVD player, buy it to... huh?.... play DVDs
00:49:09codesquidkugel, I have a Mac Mini, quite small and very silent
00:49:18 Quit feindbild (Remote closed the connection)
00:49:29kugelcodesquid: and you paid more than 50 bucks, didn't you?
00:49:31LloreanHorscht: Many modern DVD players also support CDs, MP3-audio on CDs, and other tihngs.
00:49:41Lloreankugel, codesquid: Enough of this.
00:49:51Horschtwell, my very old one does, as well.
00:49:59HorschtBut the argument was a different
00:50:06djznthe point is... most DVD's are MP3 & JPEG capable with directory listing... obviously there's a software that does it....
00:50:26Lloreandjzn: The point is, you'll need to do a LOT of work to get it done.
00:50:31Horschtyes, there is. So why would anyone need Rockbox on it?
00:50:45LloreanHorscht: For media formats not supported, obviously.
00:50:46*JdGordon reminds everyone this is a on topic channel and the track is somewhere over ==================>>> there
00:50:53djznHorscht: for MPC, FLAC, etc
00:51:21*kugel points to #rockbox-community
00:51:34*JdGordon punches kugel
00:51:37JdGordondont send them there
00:51:41Horschtok... you see, I am not following exactly. Don't you think that people using FLAC etc. would use a PC/Media Center instead?
00:51:58djznHorscht: Expensive & unpratical
00:52:31djznfocus on portables only is *very much* stupid and dumb
00:52:37LloreanHorscht: People using FLAC already may have it on their potable player, and a media center, but may have a few cheaper DVD players scattered about.
00:52:39djznand narrow minded
00:52:47Lloreandjzn: Do not go there.
00:52:54LloreanIt's rather silly to ask for help, and call a project dumb, in the same sentence.
00:53:13Horschtyou see, it's like me complaining that my MP3 player doesn't play videos
00:53:29codesquidplease, the rockbox developers are doing a great job
00:53:34Lloreandjzn: Rockbox was designed by people scratching an itch. It was not designed "to help out the world". This is YOUR itch, and until you find other itchy people (which we obviously are not) YOU'RE the one doing the scratching.
00:53:45linuxstb_djzn: No-one is telling you not do go and do it - just that it's not the focus of the people interested in this project.
00:54:02Horschtbecause it's an MP3 player, I bought it to play music. Rockbox frees my MP3 Player to play other AUDIO formats as well
00:54:13djzni bet if someone gets rockbox on a dvd, even the website would fail to spread it...
00:54:19djznbecause of the narrow-minded people
00:54:21LloreanHorscht: Look, stop, okay. It really is a suitable target for *someone* to work on.
00:54:41Lloreandjzn: Look, now you're just trolling. Trust me, stop it before you say something too stupid.
00:54:50Horschtbut only because it's your birthday
00:55:08djznyou know, i COULD call you narrow-minded... you try to cut the conversation in many ways...
00:55:31Lloreandjzn: And i could call you narrow-minded for being too daft to realize that you can't make people work for you by calling them names.
00:55:33JdGordonand we COULD kick you for being off topic and annoying
00:55:47Lloreandjzn: I've told you already: This is something people actually interested in it would have to work on.
00:55:55LloreanIf you did a sound port, it'd probably get accepted.
00:56:04djznall i am suggesting is someone to look on how to port to DVD's and your answers are always "never, forget it, too difficult, no focus.."
00:56:19LloreanBut you're too indignant and whiny to be interested in something you actually have to work on, and seem to think the world should do what you ask because *you* want it so much.
00:56:35djznno, this is your pickness...
00:56:37Lloreandjzn: That's the thing, you're suggesting someone ELSE do it. Rather than saying "I'm interested in doing it, how do I start."
00:56:38gevaertsdjzn: suggesting that "someone" does something is one of the things you shouldn't do in an open source project
00:56:59djznyou never said "you want the help to start"?
00:57:02Lloreandjzn: Nobody said it was too difficult. We said it IS difficult, and it's something WE are not interested in.
00:57:11Horschtyou never said "I want to port"
00:57:18Lloreandjzn: You never asked for help. I answered your questions on the topic though
00:57:34Lloreandjzn: You asked for a lot of pointless guesswork, and i told you "no, you need to investigate"
00:57:39LloreanI consider that help, since it's a factual statement.
00:57:41djznah ah ah... i bet that what hinders you is this "on topic" - "off topic" thing.....
00:58:06djznyou pay more attention on being "on-topic"/"off-topic" than actually thinking about the DVD-Player idea
00:58:14benjaminanyone known wether porting busybox, etc... is possible
00:58:14djznthat could help the world
00:58:23HorschtI think what hinders the current coders, is that they are not interested in a port
00:58:25Lloreandjzn: Again, you're trolling.
00:58:30kugeldjzn: Do it yourself, and let people alone that are not interested in it please
00:58:38Lloreandjzn: Do YOU want to work on it, or are you only here to call us names for not doing your bidding?
00:58:41Horschtpeople that are interested are welcome to port it
00:58:47djznif you are not interested... close the IRC... close the site...
00:59:03kugelYou should rather open your mind
00:59:04djzndon't make this damn thing public... do not spread it, do not do it
00:59:16Horschtyour logic deceives me
00:59:20 Quit PaulJam_ (".")
00:59:34JdGordondjzn: rockbox is also not about limitiing the origional target... _if_ rockbox was ported to a dvd player there would be no way to watch dvds on it so would be pointless anyway
00:59:47Lloreandjzn: So what you're saying is "Despite many thousands of free hours working on something that helps tens of thousands of people, because it didn't do something only peripherally related, you should quit."
00:59:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:00:08Lloreandjzn: As we've ALL said, you're welcome to work on it.
01:00:17codesquiddjzn, do you have any idea how difficult it is to start a new port? I have been following the development for a few months now and from what I can see it's extremely complicated.
01:00:44djznok, you see... the original firmware of an iPod... that WAS complicated...
01:00:56Lloreandjzn: And if you don't stop trolling, I'm sure you'll be removed soon. If you want to do the work, fine. If you want to look for interest, fine. If you want to insult people for not being interested, that is unacceptable.
01:00:58djznbut a DVD-Player? that only display folders and files and play it????
01:01:14Lloreandjzn: And you've just made it absolutely clear you have no idea what sort of work goes into this.
01:01:40djznrockbox is TINY, and will stay TINY... until you open your mind... oK?
01:01:40codesquiddjzn, "but an iPod? That only displays a list of files and play it????"
01:01:50Horschtwhat does the current firmware tell you about the feasibility of a port?
01:02:09djznhow easy is to crack a dvd-player
01:02:15Lloreandjzn: Then DO it.
01:02:15djznand no one ever THOUGHT of that... ah..
01:02:22LloreanIf it's so easy, bring us back a port.
01:02:53djzni am sure that if you really knew the code of an iPod... you would KNOW that a DVD is easier
01:03:11*codesquid giggles
01:03:15djznbut that's what I'm saying.. LACK of focus.... focusing only on miserable mp3 players
01:03:20*Horscht is shocked
01:04:07djznhow about putting a site "" - all are welcomed to start this new project
01:04:11ali_asIf the focus is tighter than you want, that isn't lack of focus.
01:04:42 Join gregzx [0] (
01:04:51Lloreandjzn: That domain's probably not registered. Go for it. But now you're asking other people to spend money and time on your idea.
01:04:56ali_asKiss make some dvd players that play media.
01:04:59djzn"we want volunteers to help to break DVD firmwares for them to play MKV, AVI, AAC, FLAC, MPC"
01:05:12ali_asOver a network connection or off an internal hard disk.
01:05:22Mode"#rockbox +o Llorean " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
01:05:28ali_asThat has some problems.
01:05:33Horschtno, it's not *US* that want it, it's *YOU*
01:05:38ali_asHardware limitations.
01:05:45Lloreandjzn: One last time. Stop the ranting. This project is your idea, that means you'll need to do the work.
01:06:01djznOh might powerful... you got the power now... Oh poor me...
01:06:11djznhow big you are... I am THREATENED
01:06:19djznanother IRC GOD
01:06:22djznoh my...
01:07:04djznlet's have some sex with my wife.. and forget about this rockshit thing
01:07:35ali_asRemember to fill her up with air first.
01:07:40djznmiserable mp3 players...
01:07:44djznwho have them?
01:07:49djznno one
01:07:53ali_asDVD is dead anyway.
01:07:56*gromit` laughs
01:08:00ali_asHDTV is the new wave.
01:08:08djznyou realize your licking steve job's balls
01:08:15djznfocusing on ipods
01:08:16*Horscht just can't be bothered anymore
01:08:26ali_asDon't have an ipod.
01:08:44ali_asDon't think most people here do either.
01:08:54Kick(#rockbox djzn :Llorean) by Llorean!n=DarkkOne@rockbox/administrator/Llorean
01:08:55ali_asI think you have misunderstood the point.
01:09:13kugelWow, this guy was...
01:09:40CaptainKewla troll? :P
01:10:41*gevaerts comes out from under the table... Why is it so quiet here ?
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01:13:18Mode"#rockbox -o Llorean " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
01:14:40CaptainKewlI made a mikmod plugin which runs on my 5g ipod, but it hangs each time get_more is called. Doesn't do this on the simulator. Am I right in guessing that this is due to processing and not because I'm doing the buffering wrong? And if so, does this mean that a realtime playback just isn't going to happen?
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01:17:07benjaminis porting a simple scripting language viable for rockbox?
01:17:31JdGordondepends which and what you want to do with it
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01:18:25benjamingraphics API, music player API, it's a hassle to recompile everytime for a new app
01:18:54JdGordonremember these arnt very powerful cpus...
01:20:12benjaminnothing like perl, but something like lisp, i believe some have larger than a 100mhz arm's
01:20:58LloreanOne does.
01:21:58LloreanYou are aware that you can just compile the plugins when you recompile, right?
01:22:23LloreanPorting a scripting language is just going to be a way to come up with an even more restricted environment within the already rather restricted one. :-P
01:23:34benjaminhow? i think it would be much more open for developers, to create simple apps.
01:24:10LloreanSo, less available RAM, and a reduction of the already slow processing speed doesn't sound like "more restricted" to you?
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01:24:50JdGordonthe only scripting lang i;d like to see is TI-BASIC
01:25:01JdGordonthat would be cool :D
01:25:17benjaminsimple assembler type stuff, set var = val, call_function arg, it would be easy to parse
01:25:29 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
01:25:38gevaertsActually, doesn't zxbox contain a scripting language ?
01:26:15Lloreanbenjamin: Well knock yourself out. You can do it, I just don't think it'll be as popular as you think.
01:26:57gevaertsbenjamin: if you do it, reuse an existing scripting language. Some of them are easy to embed
01:27:03postaldudeCould someone help me recovering my iPod? A friend tryed to install rockbox on it and right now when I boot it is says "Use iTunes to restore"
01:27:32postaldudeI tryed to restore it from iTunes but after restoring it it reboots and I get the same message
01:27:50soapthat is a coincidental sign of a failing hard drive I think.
01:27:53postaldudeI also tryed to manually restore it with this doc:
01:28:05benjaminthanks for the suggestions, i might create something like TCL
01:28:07soapsounds like you went down the right path.
01:28:22gevaertsbenjamin: other candidates might be lua or python
01:29:30benjaminpython, right! pymite(python bytecode interpreter) has been created for the 8-bit atmel avr cpu platform would be easy to embed. thx
01:29:42 Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection)
01:29:58postaldudeWhen I go in diagnostic mode and run the disk test (its Flash, its a Nano) it says that everything is fine
01:30:10 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
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01:30:18 Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
01:30:22postaldudeAny suggestion?
01:30:28soapThat is odd, postaldude.
01:30:36soapNano 1st gen?
01:30:57soapJust to be sure - not to be a dick - stainless steel back and plastic face?
01:31:36soapwhat operating system are you using, and what ones do you have available?
01:31:43benjaminany preference for a interpreted language? python, basic, tcl, assembly stuff, jscript
01:31:49 Join ze [0] (
01:32:14soapLOLCODE, benjamin, LOLCODE
01:32:15postaldudeWell, I tryed to restore it with iTune from Vista and for the manual restore I used a Linux box
01:32:47soapDang, postaldude, from what you have said you have been a good boy and put forth a good effort.
01:32:49 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
01:33:14postaldudeYeah, but I am kind of clueless right now
01:33:22gevaertsbenjamin: take one that makes it easy to bind to C functions, so you can e.g. wrap the plugin api. Lua claims to do that, python too. Maybe tl as well, I don't know
01:33:33soap(Grasping at straws now) - I would try iTunes from a non-Vista OS. I have gotta believe iTunes restore /should/ work from Vista - but that is an unknown for me.
01:33:50postaldudeI also tryed from my XP laptop
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01:37:12soappostaldude, Assuming you had an unfettered admin account on XP I am nearing the end of my usefulness.
01:37:21benjaminhow would i go about storing variable values, struct's?
01:37:28soap1 - What does iTunes say during and after the restore attempt?
01:37:40soap2 - try a new cable?
01:38:23soap3 - A rockbox install shouldn't have lead to this situation, I go back to my original theory on coincidence - only evidence against that theory is the iPod diagnostic mode (but I don't know how good that is).
01:39:11 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
01:39:32gevaertsbenjamin: personally I would really go for an already existing library-able language implementation, and port that to rockbox. If you want to do that part yourself as well, I'm afraid you're on a long road, and there are probably better places to help you with that
01:40:26gevaertsbenjamin: have a look at heep:// That one is designed especially to be used in this sort of way
01:40:55amiconn_gevaerts: Inventing protocols? ;)
01:41:04benjamini did.
01:41:12gevaertsamiconn_: of course ;)
01:41:17 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
01:42:12 Quit ol_schoola_ ()
01:43:06*gevaerts wonders if amiconn is really human. Only a robot can spot _all_ inaccurate statements ;)
01:45:36postaldudeWhen I start the restore process I see a progress bar and when it reach 100% it says that its gonna reboot the iPod
01:45:54soapWhat are you, postaldude, a test?
01:45:58postaldudeAnd then I get a pop up that says that iTunes detected an iPod in recovery mode
01:46:05soapYou appear to be doing everthing right.
01:46:17soapcan you manually boot it into disk mode?
01:46:20postaldudea test?
01:46:25zegevaerts: a robot can't spot a thing, only its software can
01:46:46zegevaerts: furthermore, no software is anywhere close to capable of spotting inaccurate statements thoroughly or reliably
01:46:50soapA test - "Soap spot the minuscule flaw in postaldude's procedure" kind of test.
01:47:00postaldudeI am here because I tryed everything that I could find on the web and I tough that maybe someone here could help me
01:47:30postaldudeand your help is appreciated
01:47:50gevaertsze: Are you sure ? In the movies they seem to be able to do that sort of thing !
01:48:10zegevaerts: in the movies they can suck millions of joules of energy from a AA :p
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01:52:30postaldudeDoes anyone have a dd dump of a 2gb Nano 1st gen that I could use to try to restore my Nano?
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01:55:26gevaertspostaldude: if you don't find one, first a dd from /dev/zero, followed by the MBR from the IpodConversionToFAT32 page, then the firmware step from IpodManualRestore and finally mkfs.fat -F 32 _should_ be equivalent
01:55:45gevaertspostaldude: unplug and replug after the MBR step
01:56:55postaldudethanks, I will try right now
02:00:46gevaertspostaldude: don't forget to unzip the .ipsw file. I did that once, and - surprise! - it didn't work
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02:02:40postaldudeI did not know that I had to unzip it :)
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02:03:40gevaertspostaldude: the IpodManualRestore says that, but since it's not called <whatever>.zip, it's easy to overlook if you unerstand what the steps actually mean
02:04:16gevaertspostaldude: maybe try first without the dd if=/dev/zero. That takes ages
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02:10:03gevaertsThe forums seem to be down
02:10:11postaldudeI get the same error, here is what I did:
02:10:20postaldudedd if=mbr-nano2gb.bin of=/dev/sdc
02:10:25postaldudethen unplug and replug
02:10:38postaldudethen dd if=Firmware- of=/dev/sdc1
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02:10:51postaldudeand finally mkfs.vfat -F 32 /dev/sdc2
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02:12:16gevaertsThat looks correct to me.
02:13:31postaldudeThere is something weird
02:13:41postaldudeI dumped sdc1
02:14:02postaldudeto a file and I opened it with an hex editor and then comapred it to the firmware that I downloaded
02:14:27postaldudethe 2 are different
02:15:28*gevaerts looks around for people who know more about ipods
02:16:16postaldudeFrom the firmware that I downloaded: Copyright(C) 2001 Apple Computer
02:16:33postaldudeFrom the dump: Copiright(C) "0 1 A`ple Com`udeb
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02:18:14gevaertsThat looks like 1 bit wrong every 2 bytes
02:18:42postaldudeorig: 7B7B7E7E20202F2D2D2D2D2D5C2020207B7B7E7E202F2020
02:18:55postaldudedump: 7B6B7E6E20202F2D2D2D2D2D5C2020207B6B7E6E202F2020
02:19:10postaldudethats really odd
02:19:50 Part domonok1
02:20:01gevaertsOr at least: 1 bit forced-0 every two bytes. I think the nano uses ata natively, which has a 16-bit data path. Maybe a loose connection somewhere ?
02:20:30kpbI don't mean to interrupt. I am looking to find the source code for ipodpatcher.
02:20:39kpbanyone know where I can find it?
02:20:49krazykitkpb, in svn
02:21:06kpbOK, I checked out the source
02:21:07krazykitor from the source tarball
02:21:21kpbunder firmware?? or bootloaders
02:21:23postaldudeis there some kind of checksum checking when data is transferred?
02:21:47gevaertspostaldude: usb uses crc checksums.
02:22:36postaldudeDont you think that it would rules out loose connection?
02:22:43krazykitkpb, honestly, not sure where from there. maybe grep for it?
02:22:49gevaertsI meant a loose connection inside the ipod
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02:22:54postaldudeoh ok
02:23:06kpbOK thanks. I will poke around.
02:23:39gevaertsI don't know anything about the nano internals, so I don't know how plausible this is. With a disk-based player I would bet on it
02:24:52postaldudeThen I guess that I am out of luck
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02:25:09postaldudeThanks a lot for your help gevaerts and soap
02:25:31gevaertspostaldude: postaldude not necessarily.
02:26:24gevaertspostaldude: from what I see at the nano has a separate PCB with the flash, so it might be possible to fix this by just disassembling and reassembling
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02:29:02gevaertspostaldude: but I think it's best to find someone who has actually opened a nano to ask if this makes sense
02:31:20gevaertspostaldude: seems to show that the storage PCB is indeed removable. My theory is that one of the pins on the plasticky thing above the battery has a bad contact
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02:31:58postaldudeI am opening it, we will find out
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02:33:09gevaertspostaldude: has instructions
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02:52:49*gevaerts should really go to sleep. Nearly 3 am here...
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02:53:55postaldudeIt's open but the flash in under the pcb, and to remove it I would have to remove the ribbon cable for the screen, which is really short and I doubt that I will be able to put it back
02:55:42gevaertspostaldude: if you're careful that sort of slide-locked ribbon cable is usually doable (but fiddly)
02:58:18gevaertsIf you can reach the flash pcb without removing that cable, maybe you can wiggle it a bit, which might be enough to re-seat the connections properly
03:00:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:01:14postaldudeI removed the cable, I will unscrew the pcb on which the pcb is then reseat it
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03:04:49techhelper1can rockbox play .mp4
03:05:09postaldudethey are glued together
03:05:25gevaertshmm. That sounds tricky.
03:05:51soaptechhelper1, mp4 is not a codec, but a container. Typically it contains AAC if talking about audio. If talking about video the answer is a simple no.
03:05:52postaldudemaybe with a knife
03:06:04soappostaldude, which parts are glued together?
03:06:29soapIf the main PCB and memory "daughter board" then the odds of a finicky connection there would be rare.
03:06:55postaldudethats true
03:07:17gevaertssoap: do you have other ideas of what could be wrong ?
03:07:37soapno, postaldude is pissing me off because he appears to have done everything right. ;)
03:08:17soaptypically the "restore with itunes" screen means dead HDD. What troubles me is Apple Diagnostic mode saying flash is OK. I still think it is bad flash.
03:08:20gevaertsdid you see the bit about there being one bit always zero every 2 bytes after writing to flash ?
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03:08:29soapno, I'll read up.
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03:10:46soappostaldude, assuming linuxstb doesn't do Easter (bad assumption?) check in during daylight hours Europe time and hit him up. One sec while I look up his IRC habits.
03:11:26gevaertsI think that if it's not this daughterboard connection, it's not fixable (unless you replace the entire logic board, but that's probably more expensive than just buying a second-hand nano)
03:12:17soapHe appears to be most active second half of the day Europe time (GMT +1) I think is the timezone of the IRC stats.
03:12:37postaldudeYeah, I am probably just going to buy a new one
03:12:53soapNano 1st gen, 2GB = 50-75 dollars on Craigslist if patient.
03:16:30*gevaerts is really going to sleep now.
03:17:10postaldudeagain, thanks a lot for your help gecaerts
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03:34:58PeterMitcehellhey, whats up with the forums?
03:37:04PeterMitcehellis anyone else having trouble accessing them/
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03:44:24techhelper1when is chris doing videos
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04:02:52jac0bI have a question about the multifont patch
04:03:14jac0bdoes anyone else have mpegplayer crash on them with the patch applied?
04:10:22PeterMitcehellanyone having trouble accessing the forums?
04:10:29jac0byeah I am
04:10:35jac0bjust get a blank page
04:11:12jac0bis it down?
04:11:19PeterMitcehellno idea, probably
04:11:20jac0bthe front page still works
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04:19:06soapthe front page is a different box than the forums.
04:26:14PeterMitcehellthis chip could be used for an rtc right/
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05:05:14countrymonkeyIs the naming for 8627 too long? If not, could it be committed?
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05:10:25countrymonkeyWhat is it, PeterMitchell?
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05:17:16JdGordoncountrymonkey: youve been warned before about nagging people when they join... dont do it
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05:18:08oRLYholyshit.. lots of people..
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05:25:43countrymonkeyORLY: Those are 2 words and don't swear.
05:25:54oRLYsorry about that.. is the forum still up?
05:26:13countrymonkeyto my knowledge
05:26:32oRLYi will try IE since it doesn't seem to work in FF for me
05:27:07oRLYhmm countrymonkey is this the right link?
05:27:19countrymonkeyIE? FF? Abreviations technically shouldn't be used on #rockbox (although that rule is loosely applied).
05:27:33countrymonkeyyes it is.
05:27:48soapThe forums are down, they are on a separate server which suffers from time-to-time
05:27:54oRLYsorry about that, IE = internet explorer and FF = firefox
05:28:02oRLYok thanks for the info
05:28:07oRLYi mean.. information
05:28:11countrymonkeyOk. Got it.You can ask here, though.
05:28:23countrymonkeyinfo is fine.
05:28:58countrymonkeywhat we mean by abreviations is online chat. Abreviations used on the streets and everywhere else is fine.
05:29:31oRLYwhat do i need to learn to contribute to rockbox?
05:29:42countrymonkeyin what fassion?
05:30:00oRLYi just want to help and learn
05:30:18countrymonkeyDo you know C?
05:30:24oRLYi know c++
05:30:40countrymonkeyRockbox is written in C.
05:31:11countrymonkeyDo you know another language? That's a way to help.
05:31:21oRLYsorry.. i wouldn't ask these questions but the forums is down
05:31:41countrymonkeyspoken written language, sorry.
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05:32:13oRLYoh.. i know other languages but i don't think im that skilled for translations, or other tasks..
05:32:25countrymonkeyWhat do you know?
05:32:34oRLYvietnamese and spanish..
05:32:43oRLYbut im not that confident
05:33:00countrymonkeyvietnamese. Excellante. Do you know how to write it?
05:33:10oRLYsorry.. only speak
05:33:37countrymonkeyAw well. For a sec there I thought we had a vietnamese translator. I do the chinese file.
05:33:44oRLYahh :)
05:33:56oRLYi should of taken those vietnamese classes..
05:34:14oRLYwell when the forums comes back ill look for a way to help
05:34:21oRLYsee you guys later
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05:34:35countrymonkeyThe espanol.lang needs a bit of work though, why not go to and take care of that one? I just started learning spanish 2 weeks ago.
05:34:46countrymonkeyaw well.
05:39:31countrymonkeyI have never understood it, what is the difference between a .diff file and a .patch file?
05:44:27PeterMitchellcountrymonkey: are the forums still down?
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06:32:13Guest_303hello rockbox
06:33:39Guest_303can i play .avi files with rockbox and mplayer?
06:34:04Guest_303what is the preferred video format?
06:34:46Guest_303using sansa e280 here with current (dl'd today) version of rockbox
06:38:01JdGordonyou can only watch moeg1/2
06:39:17Guest_303thanks JdGordon, you have helped me to avoid swimming around in video format world
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07:27:26PeterMitchellis this the channel for the TV show "American Idler"?
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07:31:39PeterMitchellwhat? these people aren't american, lol
07:32:03*Mouser_X is.
07:32:16Mouser_XBut I suppose you're right for many of them.
07:32:54PeterMitchellyeah, and i assume im' going to get a warning about the topic of this channel in a sec..or 5-10 mins when they come back frm being idle
07:33:57Mouser_XIt's night/very early in Europe.
07:34:15Mouser_XThe channel pretty much dies from here until about sometime later.
07:34:29Mouser_X(Well, a little earlier than now, as you could tell.)
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07:36:01PeterMitchellits dead whenever im in here (from about 8 hours ago to about 8 hours time)
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07:57:09JdGordonalmost 8am in sweden... but its also sunday morning so dont expect much activity for another 2 or 3 hours earliest
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08:42:45amiconnlinuxstb: ping
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10:11:15linuxstbamiconn: pong
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10:32:41amiconnlinuxstb: I think we need a way to link viewports, at least a pointer to the parent
10:33:39amiconnThis would make it easier to stop scrolling lines if a parent viewport gets cleared
10:34:37amiconnOf course, if we only have a pointer to the parent, the scroll engine has to check each of the actively scrolling viewports, whether its parent (or parent-parent etc) is the one that gets cleared
10:36:07Bagderthe forums seem... crazy
10:36:32amiconnhi Bagder
10:36:57amiconnI think we can now offer M3 builds for download
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10:37:09Bagdergreat! is there any small m3 pic available?
10:37:27amiconnHmm, no SVG yet
10:38:02amiconnAlso, should we only show the main unit, i.e. without the lcd remote?
10:38:06BagderI meant using any source, as currently "m3" shows a rockbox logo
10:38:16*amiconn could scale down his scan
10:39:00linuxstbamiconn: Yes, I've been thinking about adding the concept of a parent.
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10:41:20Bagdergotta go again, back tonight
10:42:21amiconnHmm, I now have a preliminary m3_small.png
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10:52:57amiconnlinuxstb: With the new wps code, I have no WPS at all on my M3 now :(
10:53:08amiconnJust a statusbar on an empty screen....
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10:54:05*amiconn does a full rebuild
10:54:53*linuxstb builds a M3 sim
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10:59:04linuxstbSim seems fine...
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11:01:04linuxstbBoth Cabbie and rockbox_default are fine.
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11:08:32amiconnA full rebuild fixed it
11:08:46*amiconn wonders what this dependency problem might be
11:09:28linuxstbIt does seem odd...
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11:11:21linuxstbWould anyone object to me committing my WPS "bitmap strips" patch? Latest version is here - - and with it I can reduce Cabbiev2 down to 8 bitmaps (from about 35)
11:13:23linuxstbSorry, I meant this one -
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12:35:12PeterMitchelli see the forums are still down
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12:47:10cool_walking_Are the forums down, or just having DNS problems again?
12:47:47 Quit DaCapn (Remote closed the connection)
12:48:14cool_walking_and anyone know the forum IP?
12:49:33PeterMitchelli wish :(
12:49:52PeterMitchellif you find out, could you tell me please?
12:51:14cool_walking_Well my PC says, but either their down, or that's not it.
12:51:41PeterMitchellyeah, i got that too when i did a lookup but i guess not
12:52:45cool_walking_Google has a cached page for, and it's the forums.
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13:20:37PaulJamlinuxstb: before you commit the wps_strips patch, there seems to be a little issue with normal images (%xl/%xd). i have an image in my WPS that is slightly corrupted (one or two wrong pixels) with your patch applied (doesn't happen with a clean uisim). unfortunately i don't have time right now to find out under what conditions this happens.
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13:21:36linuxstbPaulJam: I've found another problem, so I'm not committing yet...
13:21:42DefineBytethe forum seems to be having some problems.
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13:22:06DefineByteI'm just getting a blank page.
13:22:19PeterMitchellbeen like that for more than 12 hours
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13:22:30DefineByteOh, OK.
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13:23:43PeterMitchellon the same note, i wonder when it will be back up
13:24:50DefineByteSeems to be up and down like a yo-yo recently.
13:25:02linuxstbThe right people know about it...
13:25:46PeterMitchellyeah, but hey, the right peopme knew about saddams WMDs for a long time before they did anything... (not implying anything)
13:26:14DefineByteI think they only 'knew' about them.
13:26:47PeterMitchellon another note, what time is it in belgium right now?
13:27:28PeterMitchell:O why thankyou!
13:28:24PeterMitchelli'll have to bookmark that
13:36:48JdGordonjhMikeS: you round?>
13:37:03DefineByteAnyone know where I can find the snippet of code that controls line out volume?
13:37:50DefineByteThank you. :)
13:37:54JdGordonand then setvol()
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14:38:55linuxstbpixelma: I'm assuming the %xdB should no longer be in cabbiev2.128x64x1.wps ?
14:41:06pixelmaoh... misread
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14:43:00pixelmano it shouldn't, overlooked it there at the end
14:44:10uklI guess this question is becoming annoying, but I really wonder - When choosing an media player (only needing music abilities) and having rockbox compatibility as one main concern (next to price and space), could you advise anyone in particular?
14:44:28linuxstbIt depends...
14:44:29ukllike, the whole sansa series (v1)? (just my first impression, could be wrong)
14:44:49pixelmalinuxstb: (and because I didn't expect something like %xl/%xd outside a conditional, I always used %x for that...)
14:45:55pixelmaukl: maybe the BuyersGuide page in the rockbox wiki could give you a good overview - it's always a question what features you want/don't want
14:45:55linuxstbukl: There's a discussion on the forum which may help you, but the forums are unavailable at the moment... But this may help -
14:46:06gevaertsukl: I seem to remember some people complaining about the sound quality on the sansas, but others seem to be happy with it
14:46:46*gevaerts mostly listens to 56kbps radio shows, so he doesn't have sound quality issues on any player
14:46:51uklthanks a lot for your suggestions, will check the buyers guide and keep my eyes open :)
14:47:41linuxstbukl: There's an offer on C200s at the moment (I see you're in the UK) -
14:47:56linuxstbOnly 1GB, but expandable via MicroSD cards
14:48:17linuxstb(although there's a risk they are the V2 C200s, which won't work with Rockbox...)
14:48:59uklfrom now on my stay here will only last for one week, unfortunately...
14:49:08pixelmalinuxstb: are you converting cabbiev2 to using bitmap strips now? Just asking because I'm working on the greyscale graphics ATM
14:49:35uklI saw a few sansa e280 on ebay when I looked for them, but noone ever states something about v1/v2...
14:49:43linuxstbpixelma: I've converted one (220x176x16) as a test, but it only takes 5 minutes, so no problem if you're changing things.
14:50:33linuxstbpixelma: But at the moment, I'm trying to track down an odd bug - the remote WPS on the H300 sim is getting corrupted, and I can't see why...
14:50:37uklhmm that offer still seems nice.
14:50:43linuxstb(the %xdB makes no difference)
14:50:54*amiconn just found out an interesting detail about the iaudio remote lcd controller
14:51:09gevaertsukl: the most reliable way to be sure is to ask the seller to look at the firmware version (I believe it's somewhere in the Settings menu on the OF). If it's 01.xx.xx, it's a v1, if it's 03.xx.xx, it's a v2
14:51:11linuxstbukl: Yes, as long as you don't live in Sweden... (75 UKP postage...)
14:51:13pixelmalinuxstb: corrupted, how?
14:51:35linuxstbpixelma: I'm sure it's my wps_strips patch - there's a small rectangle being cleared in the top "Now Playing" bar.
14:51:44uklI just recognized one of the buyers from left a comment
14:51:45linuxstbWith clean SVN, it's fine.
14:51:50amiconnI did some initial research using test_scanrate.rock, and wondered why I didn't see the usual block moving slowly upwards or downwards
14:51:50uklstating that rockbox works on it
14:52:07amiconnTook a while until I noticed that the panel is updated sideway....
14:52:20gevaertsukl: that doesn't guarantee that all their players are v1...
14:52:43uklgevaerts: too bad, you're right. he could have been lucky (and I could still have bad luck)
14:52:50linuxstbukl: Or that the buyer actually bought one - it could just be a general comment...
14:52:55uklbigpockets is an online seller only, right?
14:53:29linuxstbI've now idea, but I would guess so.
14:53:50*moos didn't resisist to the temptation, and bought one of those for see, worth a try
14:54:14*BigBambi too
14:54:19uklbigbambi, moos: has it arrived already?
14:54:30BigBambino, only ordered yesterday
14:54:36moosukl: just bought yesterday, sorry
14:54:40pixelmalinuxstb: that sounds odd, indeed (assuming main WPS works fine)
14:55:01BigBambiand given friday to monday inclusive is easter weekend, I wouldn't expect it until end of next week at the earliest
14:55:35uklhmm.... what would you think (I'm not familiar with Post services in UK) - when I order it now, will it arrive this week? (like, before next weekend?)
14:55:56BigBambiPost services are good, it depends more how long the store takes to ship it
14:56:00mooslinuxstb, BigBambi: fortunatly for us french, they didn't charge too much, compared to Swedeen :)
14:56:11uklthe website says "same day" (might be tuesday, then)
14:56:20BigBambimoos: I ordered it to the UK, my parents are visiting soon :)
14:56:29mooshehe, lucky :)
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14:56:39linuxstbDoes the C200 use a standard USB cable?
14:57:11pixelmaunfortunately no
14:57:15moosI thought propriatary cable like e2xx, no?
14:57:52*linuxstb reads the DeviceChart...
14:58:06pixelmayes, might even be the same, but only someone with both can tell (or maybe Bagder/Zagor)
14:58:26BigBambiI'll tell you when the c240 turns up
14:58:39linuxstbIs it some kind of dock connector? (i.e. lots and lots of pins)
14:58:46desowinsansa connect and e200 has the same, dunno about c200
14:58:55pixelmayes, almost looks like an Ipod USB cable
15:00:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:01:16desowin(well, it differs just by sandisk logo on it, but it might be european vs american thing, as my e200 is european and connect is american)
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15:04:53pixelmaI meant the plug - the cable is not white and the plug does not have an apple on it ;)
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16:00:09theclawMy sandisk sansa only has about ~50% of its initial battery capacity (after about half a year). Can this be the case? The battery didn't have more than 10 reload cycles
16:00:25theclawCould it be the case that rockbox incorrectly reports the remaining battery?
16:00:51domonokydont trust rockbox remaining time..
16:01:33domonokythe only way to be sure about the runtime, is to charge up, let it play till its empty and measure the time..
16:02:00theclawIs this problem also present with the original firmware?
16:02:33*domonoky doesnt know anything about sansa OF ..
16:04:48domonokyhow did you measure this "50%" ?
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16:13:35theclawdomonoky: rockbox shows this
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16:16:12domonokyso its probably only the wrong runtime in rockbox, and your battery is fine.. :-)
16:18:14theclawhmm, and there's no way to get the real runtime (except for measuring it "by hand" of course). some notebooks for example can "recalibrate" the battery
16:18:47theclawi thought of something like whether or not it would be helpful to completely discharge and recharge the battery of my sansa
16:19:03theclaw(afaik that's what the notebooks do)
16:20:08bertrikthat's just bad for your battery, there's no circuit in the battery as far as I know, so there's nothing to recalibrate
16:20:24domonokyits possible to calibrate rockbox (with a measured discharge curve) so it shows the correct runtime, but this isnt done for the newer targets, as they are still in heavy development..
16:23:09theclawhmm.. okay, so thanks then, seems like I have to stick with the current situation
16:23:34theclawnot that bad at all, as even if the battery is demaged, it wouldn't be -that- expensive to buy a new one (about 10 btw.)
16:25:07theclawbut something -must- have changed with the battery, because as the player was new, rockbox showed that the battery was at 100%
16:26:28gevaertstheclaw: are you charging from within rockbox or from the OF ?
16:26:36theclawfrom the OF
16:27:36PeterMitchellforums still down eh?
16:27:38gevaertsOK. Then that's not the problem at least (there are known issues with charging in rockbox)
16:27:43bertrikmaybe USB doesn't deliver enough voltage, for example when it's behind an unpowered hub
16:27:43domonokytheclaw: you mean it charges only to 50% ? so the battery indicator never shows 100% ?
16:28:01bertrik(and/or a long cable)
16:28:04*gevaerts goes back to his jigsaw puzzle
16:28:36theclawdomonoky: yes, exactly. The battery indicator in the OF, as well as in rockbox. But the battery indicator in the OF seems to show a higher percentage.
16:29:23theclawdomonoky: it's not exactly 50% btw., I just loaded the battery and rockbox says 35%
16:29:54theclawbertrik: the cable is about 1 meter long, and it's directly attached to the PC
16:29:55bertrikwhat's the battery voltage (visible in debug menu / battery)?
16:30:04domonokythis sounds really strange, the % should be correct in rockbox.. (the runtime estimate is false)
16:30:37theclawbertrik: it says "Battery 3.777"
16:31:14bertrikhmm, quite low indeed, I think it should be > 4.0V just after charging
16:32:01theclawthe "remaining battery percent value" is directly derived from the voltage?
16:32:23bertrikyes, I think so
16:33:52theclawhmm. That sounds like my battery is defective
16:34:16PeterMitchelljust wondering, what kind of charge cycles have you been using? full or partial?
16:34:44theclawAs I got the player, I didn't fully discharge / recharge the battery (btw., it wasn't empty as I got the player) - could it be the case that this is the cause for the problem?
16:35:05PeterMitchellnoper, full discharges kill lithium ion batties
16:35:58theclawPeterMitchell: the charge-cycles question: whenever I connect the player to the computer the battery is charged, so I guess partial
16:36:19theclawPeterMitchell: maybe this information is quite old, like for NiCd-batterys or so
16:36:35theclaw(the fully-discharge/fully-recharge information)
16:36:54PeterMitchellahh, ok, thats good, because if yyou let the player drain the battery flat then do full charges, this can quickly degrade its life (aka, half its life in 10 cycles)
16:37:35PeterMitchellhence why most devices always turn off before the battery is actually fltat ;)
16:38:53theclaw'but this is necessary after about every 30th recharge to recalibrate any external electronic "fuel gauge"' < so this is not the case for rockbox, as the battery doesn't have a circuit?
16:39:24PeterMitchellall lithium ion batteries have a circuit, its just integrated into the battery, not the device
16:39:40PeterMitchellwithout this circuit, the batteries explode due to overcharging
16:39:47PeterMitchellquite quickly too
16:40:13bertrikPeterMitchell: but that's a protection circuit, not a "fuel gauge", right?
16:41:29bertrikmy sansa battery has only 3 connections, 2 for power and another for temperature I think
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16:44:07PeterMitchellyes and no, the circuit prevents things like overcharging, overheating, depletion and some other things, when the battery becomes too depleted (doesn't have the appropriate potential difference) the circuit stops the battery form providing charge, so the reaction inside the batry does not fully complete, so it is able to be recharged
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16:44:42PeterMitchelldamn dcs
16:45:04bertrikyes and no? I'm pretty sure it's a no, there's no communication with the battery other than a voltage reading and a temperature reading.
16:45:32PeterMitchellmost of the time its just a 2 pin connector, some fancy ones have a temp gague
16:46:11PeterMitchellthe fuelgacue circuit is inside the bayyery itself, integrated into the protection one
16:47:10theclawbut the battery doesn't report the fual gauge value to the CPU, right?
16:47:48BigBambi(I think!)
16:48:26theclawwhats the reason for a "fual gauge" in general, btw? Does the battery internally keep something like a "discharge curve"?
16:48:28PeterMitchellhowever, the fuelgage can sometimes lead the battery to not charge fully, hence needing the "reset charge"
16:49:03bertrikhow do you know there's a fuel gauge present in the sansa battery?
16:49:03PeterMitchellits to prevent the batterys reaction from fully completing, because once it is, there is no way to reverse it
16:49:23PeterMitchellbecause all consumer lithuim ion batteries have them
16:50:14bertrikI don't believe that, can't the protection circuit just work with the voltage?
16:51:31PeterMitchellthats how the protection circuit and "fuelgague" work, as the ba\ttery is discharged the reaction becomes less efficient, leading to a lesser potential difference, the curve of this decrease shows the level of discharge
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17:00:00PeterMitchellit is hard to explain how it works but once it is understood it its quite simple, as the battery is discharged the protection circuit steps in and goes "this battery is flat, 0%" even though it is probably at 10-20%, this stops the reaction from compleing and allows the battery to be recharged, then it is charged to 100% or there about again the protection circuit and hopefully some software comes in and s
17:00:13PeterMitchelli hope that helps
17:00:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:01:31theclawPeterMitchell: as far as I understand it, bertrik wonders why the voltage alone isn't enough information for the protection circuit to protect the battery
17:02:11theclawbtw, does the term 'fual gauge' imply that it's more than just a voltage value?
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17:04:17PeterMitchellit uses voltage along with a preset curve for charge % vs voltage, because voltage of maximum an minimum charge change throughout the life of the battery
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17:05:25PeterMitchelli helped my son with a chem assignment on batteries about 3 months ago lol
17:05:39PeterMitchellthats how i learnt what i did
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17:09:46jac0bwhat is the pastebin address
17:10:09bertriksorry, I still don't believe it and don't understand why the battery would contain a complicated fuel gauge while it can protect the battery based on voltage and temperature alone. Maybe for laptops but not for a simple media player. I'll believe it when I see it.
17:10:44PeterMitchellits not complicated, only the theory behind it is
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17:15:06PeterMitchellhmm, forums still aren't up yet
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17:18:23jac0bi am trying to build a sim with rockbock-bleeding but I get this error
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17:19:51soapPeterMitchell, your information is incorrect on the simple batteries used in DAPs. Maybe on laptops, but the circuit on the DAP batteries is a simple low-voltage cutoff.
17:20:01soapno internal discharge curve, no nothing.
17:21:19soapif theclaw's player is showing 50% (the number based on battery voltage and not a calced runtime figure) his battery is at 50% voltage.
17:21:39domonokyjac0b: your are using the tarball ?
17:21:59soapif after charging through original firmware for a long-enough period of time (long enough depends on amperage supplied by USB port) then his battery is dead.
17:23:32soapFWIW, my E200 battery lost capacity much faster than my iPod Video or Nano.
17:23:38PeterMitchellhmm, well, from my understanding it was on most consumer devices (we pulled apart a mobilephone batetry and a laptop battery for examples)
17:23:39soapmuch faster.
17:24:34soapoh, there is a circuit in end-user consumer batteries. In most cases it is simply an undervoltage and over charge protection circuit.
17:25:08soapI don't know where, outside the radio-control vehicle market, you can buy naked cells w/o physical and electrical protection.
17:27:58PeterMitchellthes e ones had more then overcharge and undervoltage, im pretty sure because they (wiht the aid of a 3rd party powersupply) charged quite oddly in experimentaton, and, where would i be able to buy some of these "unprotected" lithium ion batteries?
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17:32:33theclawsoap: thats really weird than. As said, only about 10 reload cycles. Maybe my sansa (also an e200, btw) was used before
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17:37:48bertriktheclaw: did it get hot at any time? or did you store the player in a hot place?
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17:38:34kugelsoap: my e200 lost no capacity yet, at least it doesn
17:38:45bertrikif you charge it in the OF, does the OF give an indication that it is indeed fully charged?
17:38:46kugel't feel so
17:47:27soappurely talking out of my ass here, but a device which only uses one battery shouldn't need a discharge curve internal to the battery. A device like a laptop which might have a variety of batteries plugged into it, and a variety of operating systems on it could benefit from a hardware discharge curve. Also, a device like and iPod which does not show estimated runtime, only battery percentage (which is just voltage) doesn't need a discharge curve.
17:48:24saratogai don't think theres any circuitry built into Sansa battery
17:48:34saratogaat least theres no need, the AS chip provides everything thats needed
17:49:19saratogaand since there is no data connection to the battery, whatever circuitry in there would be unable to communicate or influence the outside world beyond turning on or off the battery, which is not particularly useful when the AS chip already handles that
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17:50:05jac0bdomonoky: yep
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17:51:30jac0bdomonoky: have tryed building from source
17:51:57bertrikIs there any particular reason why I can't exit the battery debug menu using the 'left' button (only menu/poweroff button works)? All other debug menus can be exited with the left button.
17:52:08bertrikIf there isn't, I won't mind trying to fix that.
17:52:48saratogaprobably just a bug in the code
17:53:58PaulJamlinuxstb: are you here?
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17:56:06jac0bI can build a sim with svn but not with rockbox-bleeding
17:56:37NivekianHello, I have a question....
17:56:44jac0bis there something wrong with rb-bleeding
17:57:05krazykitNivekian, we can't answer it if you don't ask, you know :)
17:57:42NivekianI have an ipod that's full of unreadable files... how do I get rid of them
17:58:17krazykitwhat kind of files, specifically? can't you just delete them?
17:59:09bertrikWhat is rockbox-bleeding? I thought rockbox didn't come any more bleeding edge than the version in subversion.
17:59:29bertrik(not any less either :P )
17:59:46Nivekianitunes says that I have 18g of files but it can't read them
18:00:05NivekianIs there another program that works better than apple junk?
18:00:27krazykitNivekian, did you add files via explorer at all? it may be unsupported by the apple firmware.
18:00:30jac0bbertrik: that is the version you cna d/l from the current build page
18:01:03NivekianI actually found the ipod in the trash.. so I don't know how the files got there
18:01:20krazykitNivekian, ah. why not just delete everything on the disk and restore it?
18:01:29krazykitthen rockbox it ;)
18:01:43saratogajust mount the ipod and delete the files you don't want
18:01:47NivekianThat's what I was thinkin' of doin'
18:02:22NivekianThought I'd come here... I can be a little dence :P
18:03:32jac0bdoes anyone know what happened to the froums
18:03:44gevaertsjac0b: we hope so ;)
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18:06:12NivekianThanks folks
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18:07:13theclawbertrik: I don't remember, if it was, at most as warm as a hand / No
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18:32:04*pixelma just saw a weird effect on a Mini running a Rockbox USB enabled build...
18:32:58pixelmahad it in charging mode (held menu while connecting) and listened to some music, when I unplugged USB Rockbox paused the music
18:33:45gevaertsThat's interesting
18:34:21pixelmait was connected to a laptop with USB 1.1 ports, in case that matters
18:35:12gevaertsit shouldn't. Is this with r16752 or later (that's the most recent usb-related commit) ?
18:36:32pixelmait's an older build (r16665) - I should test a more recent one before commenting (sorry)
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18:37:53gevaertsNot that old... Is it reproducible on r16665 ?
18:40:12gevaertsOK. I'll try to reproduce it here
18:40:28*gevaerts abandons his jigsaw puzzle and gets to work
18:44:09*bertrik fixed the battery debug menu exit problem, but doesn't quite understand why the original code didn't work
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18:46:49*gevaerts is now copying some actual audio files to his sansa. Those will be needed to reproduce this bug...
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19:00:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:08:12gevaertspixelma: I tried to reproduce this on my ipod video and my sansa c250, and both work fine, with r16665 and r16762. The USB controller on my laptop is 2.0, but I really don't see how that can make a difference (I used full-speed builds, i.e. no -DUSE_HIGH_SPEED)
19:08:52 Quit BlakeJohnson86 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:09:29pixelmaI think this build uses highspeed but I already prepared a new one (with highspeed again and will try again)
19:10:00 Part Honkbo1 ("Leaving.")
19:10:13pixelmaWinXP SP2 btw. if that could make a difference...
19:11:58gevaertsit shouldn't, but then from my reading of the code this bug shouldn't happen at all, so...
19:15:30pixelmaI could just reproduce it with r16762
19:16:59linuxstbPaulJam: I'm here now
19:19:11gevaertsThe only way I see this could happen is if for some reason the unplugging is bouncy. Could you try a different port (or does the laptop only have one) ?
19:19:54pixelmacould try the second one but that's it then. One moment...
19:19:57PaulJamlinuxstb: hi, i have been experimenting with the image corruption i saw (2 black pixels in the first image of the WPS) and i think they are caused by the %P|| tag. (the corruption of the rwps that you saw seems to be related to that.)
19:21:56linuxstbPaulJam: Yes, I found the same (just before I left earlier today). I'm glad your bug appears to be the same...
19:22:12pixelmagevaerts: using the other port makes no difference but I could go try another computer here...
19:22:57linuxstbPaulJam: Any idea how to fix it though? I've not been able to spot it...
19:23:13gevaertspixelma: could you try to hold menu while unplugging ? If it works properly then that would at least partially confirm my theory
19:23:32PaulJamlinuxstb:btw, i'm not sure if it is related to your patch, but i saw some weird console output in the uisim where it tries to load random parts of the wps file as bitmaps.
19:23:35pixelmagevaerts: same happens on a different laptop... sure
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19:24:13PaulJamlinuxstb: sorry, i haven't looked at the sourcecode at all.
19:24:51linuxstbPaulJam: I committed a fix for that to SVN today - have you updated?
19:25:05pixelmagevaerts: holding menu during unplug makes no difference either
19:25:30PaulJamoh, i think i didn't. sorry.
19:25:59*gevaerts decides he doesn't understand this bug. More thinking is needed
19:26:49uklSo, just to get it right, with a Sansa c250 v1 + a (sdhc) memory card, I cannot use the player plugged into the usb port as a usb mass storage; and there might be issues charging it when rockbox is running. Can't I charge it without a running software?
19:28:54gevaertsukl: the "charging issues" mostly are that it doesn't charge to 100%, but stops somewhere between 70% and 80% (in my experience). You can boot into the OF for full charging and usb storage (but no sdhc there, only sd)
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19:29:49gevaertsukl: if you feel adventurous and compile your own build, you can also get mass storage in rockbox, but it might still be buggy and/or cause data corruption.
19:29:51uklhow much is 4gb of SDHC at the moment? approximately?
19:29:53bertrikit charges with 50 mA and stops at 3.9V
19:30:16*ukl is still thinking about getting this c250 from bigpockets
19:31:24ukl19 $ cheapest... ok.
19:32:00uklI think I'll get this sansa thing. if noone else knows a more affordable/reasonable rockbox-compatible player?
19:32:40bertrikIsn't there a c200 V2 version that is incompatible with rockbox?
19:33:02uklyes, there's a bit risky
19:33:27uklbut one of the commenters advised using rockbox one it, it might be a matter of luck to get the right one from bigpockets
19:35:01gevaertspixelma: does the same thing happen on a non-usb build ?
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19:40:43linuxstbPaulJam: I think I found it (it fixed my problem at least) -
19:41:05PaulJamthanks, i'll test
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19:45:24PaulJamlinuxstb: yes, that fixes the issue i saw too.
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19:47:30linuxstbPaulJam: Good, thanks.
19:48:10pixelmagevaerts: will try
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19:53:36reformedhey guys, I was wondering whether it is possible to have rockbox, ipodlinux, and the original firmware and switch between the three
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20:05:19uklbtw, the forum seems to be back up
20:05:47uklwasn't there some discussion about sansas I should look for?
20:06:42linuxstbukl: I was thinking of this thread -
20:07:04uklthanks a lot for this fast reaction :)
20:07:23gevaertsukl: I think you hadn't settled for the sansa back then
20:08:02uklwell, I haven't really settled yet...
20:10:05 Quit DerDome ("Leaving.")
20:12:26uklanyway, iriver = too expensive
20:13:31gevaertsNothing will beat that sansa offer. If you don't need recording. the gigabeat F is quite nice
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20:14:05reformedhow do i switch between ipodlinux and rockbox and the original firmware on an ipod?
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20:14:33gevaertsreformed: I believe you need the ipodlinux bootloader for that.
20:15:22linuxstbreformed: Just install ipodlinux according to their instructions. If you then download and unzip a "" file for your ipod to the FAT32 partition on your ipod, the ipodlinux bootloader should detect it and give you an option for it.
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20:25:48amiconngevaerts: You don't need the ipl bootloader. The rockbox bootloader can also boot ipl
20:26:17amiconnJust put the kernel on the fat32 partition. Then hold Play during boot
20:26:31 Quit amiconn (" bbl")
20:30:20pixelmagevaerts: this bug is reproducible with a plain SVN build (r16762 too)
20:31:38gevaertsThanks. I still have no clue on its cause unfortunately
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20:32:33*linuxstb couldn't resist any more, and ordered a c240
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20:55:13BigBambiCan someone close this? It's existence is annoying me.
20:56:34 Join fasmaie [0] (
20:56:44Lloreanconsider it done
20:57:07BigBambiLlorean: and this one whilst you are at it :)
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20:58:15LloreanBigBambi: I was already in the process of closing it while you asked.
20:58:21BigBambihehe :)
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20:58:41Nico_Pthe last comment in FS #8780 makes me want to be viloent
20:59:02linuxstbHe just seems like a troll to me...
20:59:12BigBambiYep - see
20:59:24BigBambiNico_P: Yes, it got to me too
20:59:36Thundercloud_Oooh what's going on? Got a link for that?
20:59:58BigBambiThundercloud: I posted it about then lines ago
21:00:13Thundercloud_It was the last thing I received before I timed out
21:00:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:08:47 Quit nplus (Remote closed the connection)
21:09:52BigBambiBagder: Manuals seem to be missing from
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21:18:06linuxstbNico_P: Around?
21:19:15linuxstbI'm thinking about committing my wps bitmap-strips patch - it seems to be working fine now.
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21:19:47crzyboysterWhat does everyone think of posting up the unicode versions of cabbiev2 on the wiki extras page?
21:19:48Nico_PI'd say go ahead
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21:21:11crzyboysterSo there are no plans of including it in the official builds?
21:21:26 Join Thundercloud [0] (
21:21:58crzyboysterAnd the M3 is now a supported target???
21:22:32linuxstbNo, but it doesn't seem that far away... Targets are supported when they appear on the current builds download page.
21:23:10*linuxstb takes that back - he didn't notice...
21:23:13crzyboysterYeah, it's on that page and on the front page for supported players... that was fast!
21:23:14domonok1linuxstb: it is on the build pake
21:24:44crzyboysterWhat should the page for the unicode versions of cabbiev2 be called?
21:25:54gevaertsUniCabbie ?
21:26:00Lloreancrzyboyster: Traditionally, themes do not get their own wiki page.
21:26:24crzyboysterYes,, but for the extras page and the unifont version of cabbiev2 would be an exception?
21:26:36crzyboysterAnd that's how all the other extras are done...
21:26:51crzyboysterBut I could just make a table on the extras page...
21:27:03LloreanWhy not juts wait and see if you can get it in SVN.
21:27:29LloreanPeople shouldn't have to look in more than one place for themes.
21:28:10*domonok1 still awaits the new page.. :-)
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21:28:32crzyboysterTrue. But rockbox should have a way to make a .cfg file (cabbiev2unifont.cfg, for example) to link up to a wps file (cabbiev2unifont.wps) that links up to the original cabbiev2 images folder so that the images wouldn't have to be repeated.
21:29:07LloreanThen create a way.
21:29:14crzyboysterFeature request?
21:29:50saratogathe easiest thing to do would be to just have a download link for the unifont version and left people install it like a normal font
21:30:01LloreanI don't see why we can't duplicate the images. In fact, I don't see why it's mandatory at all that a unifont variant of the theme use the same images.
21:30:10LloreanI'd expect it should be adapted to the differing font size anyway
21:30:35saratogaLlorean: packing both themes greatly increased zip size
21:30:43saratogabecause of the enormous unicode fonts
21:30:51crzyboysterWell, we have unifont versions ready to go with the same images and viewports allow us to just need a different .cfg and .wps file and all else would be the same...
21:31:06saratogathat was the main reason i was opposed to adding both to SVN
21:31:38crzyboysterExtras page seems to be the way to go (atleast in my opinion)
21:31:38linuxstbNico_P: Committed...
21:31:42Lloreansaratoga: Then we put it in the gallery.
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21:32:07saratogaLlorean: yes that would be fine with me, though it might be nice to put a note on the download page or something informing people that its available
21:32:09Nico_Plinuxstb: something tells me you're making a lot of WPS makers happy these days
21:32:10crzyboysterAnd link to that from the Extras page?
21:32:11Lloreancrzyboyster: Again, people shouldn't have to look in two places for themes.
21:32:12linuxstbAnyone know the status of the new rockbox-themes site?
21:32:34LloreanThere's already a link to the theme gallery on the extras page...
21:32:36linuxstbNico_P: I'm just trying to tempt people back to official builds...
21:32:53LloreanNico_P: People are still reporting sluggish performance due to one of your commits
21:33:04LloreanThe one that unified the buffer callbacks, iirc.
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21:33:12Nico_Plinuxstb: what do officials builds have more now? just multifont?
21:33:24Nico_PLlorean: that one actually wasn't mine
21:33:24crzyboysterLlorean: I mean, we could post the themes on the site, wps gallery and link to the wps gallery from the extras page...
21:33:47LloreanNico_P: Hm, lemme go check the revision number then. I thought it was one of yours, so maybe I'm miscommunicating
21:34:02Lloreancrzyboyster: The WPS gallers is already linked there.
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21:34:38Nico_Poh, that one?
21:34:49crzyboysterAllright. I'm going to start compiling all of the latest version of cabbiev2 unifont and testing them all out. Then, I will post to the wps gallery.
21:34:55saratogai think bmp resize is also popular in unofficial builds
21:34:56LloreanNico_P: Related thread:
21:35:15disorganizerbmp-resize and multifont are the most used features for themes.
21:35:20soapwhat is the difference between cabbiev2 unifont and stock cabbiev2?
21:35:24Lloreansaratoga: Yes, BMP resize and multifont are the big two I think.
21:35:29disorganizerif both are in the official, most of the themes which need patches will work
21:35:36Lloreansoap: Stock one uses helvR10 and similar fonts.
21:35:55soapright - kind of my point Llorean. ;) Isn't the only difference the font??
21:35:58LloreanYou get a LOT less information onscreen (for most targets) with Unifont, because frankly, it's giant.
21:36:19LloreanAt least, by *my* font standards. It's "about average" I think for what people generally use
21:36:23soapis there not a possibility of a 10/12 point unicode font?
21:36:33*disorganizer still misses a clearly readable font like sysfixed, but with full char-support
21:36:36soapOr do some of the glyphs become indistinguishable?
21:36:38Lloreansoap: 6x12+13
21:36:56LloreanIf I recall correctly, it covers an awful lot of glyphs for its size
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21:37:35soapI guess my question is - why is the unicode vs stock thing such a big deal requiring its own wiki page if the only needed difference is a tweaked unicode font of smaller height?
21:38:24crzyboysterAnd a new .wps file.
21:39:06soapThat is what I don't get.
21:39:12saratogai don't think it needs its own wiki page, but I do think the downloads page should say "if you need non-western characters, download and install this as well: [link]"
21:39:45crzyboysterI am going to put them up on the WPS gallery pages.
21:39:56soapYou could even be noob-friendly and make a drop-in replacement font by the same name as the stock font.
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21:40:46disorganizerin fact this would be the same method most programs handle it. the non-western fonts are optional to install
21:40:55crzyboysterHow about like on the daily builds pages, like it says fonts for download under each target, we could squeeze in a cabbiev2 unifont install.
21:41:57linuxstbCan't we just include the theme in SVN, but don't include the font in the "no fonts" .zip file?
21:42:10linuxstbThe other themes in SVN need fonts from the file
21:42:14Lloreanlinuxstb: I was about to say the same thing.
21:44:17crzyboysterBut we would still have an extra wps folder with the same exact images (useless, in my opinion)
21:45:21LloreanThen write a patch to solve the problem.
21:45:41LloreanSometimes the simplest solution is best. We have plenty of disk space.
21:46:16 Quit kushal_12_27_200 ("This computer has gone to sleep")
21:46:20linuxstbcabbiev2 just needs 8 bitmaps now anyway...
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21:47:15Lloreanlinuxstb: But you didn't decrease the size of those bitmaps much (just a few less headers), right? ;)
21:47:28crzyboysterlinuxstb: How?
21:47:31linuxstb1 bmp = 1 disk cluster...
21:47:45crzyboysterDisk cluster = ?
21:47:54linuxstbcrzyboyster: Check the latest commit
21:47:55LloreanAh, that's true.
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21:48:20crzyboysterSo cabbiev2 will be using these soon?
21:48:57linuxstbYes, I'll look at that now, although I'll just do the colour versions tonight, pixelma said she was working on the others.
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21:50:01linuxstbWow, 374 bitmaps in SVN for cabbiev2...
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21:51:59*linuxstb wonders why there are duplicate bmps - e.g. vol0-132x80x16.bmp, vol0-160x128x16.bmp and vol0-176x132x16.bmp are the same
21:52:38Lloreanlinuxstb: Build system limitations?
21:52:44linuxstbNot afaik probably expects a bmp named after the screen resolution
21:54:10linuxstbI thought it read the .wps file and copied the bmps referenced in it?
21:55:02saratogano the build script doesn't even look at the wps files
21:55:07soapif expects the precisely named files could you symlink?
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21:55:22linuxstbAh no, seems it doesn't... That was my patch for creating a tar file from the images in a wps
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21:55:32linuxstbSeems that should be fixed.
21:55:33saratogatar would be nice
21:56:00linuxstbIt didn't seem to gain anything, and just made the process more complex for theme designers.
21:56:44saratogatar for svn included themes would be nice, though i agree its not useful for optional themes
21:56:58saratogait would speed up copying builds at least
21:57:15linuxstbAs I said, cabbiev2 just needs 8 bitmaps now, so it's not a huge gain
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22:00:06 Quit FOAD ("I'll be back")
22:00:33linuxstbsaratoga: But there's a patch on flyspray if you want to experiment with it...
22:01:18saratogalinuxstb: I see 34 bmps in the zip
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22:02:36linuxstbsaratoga: I said _needs_, not _has_... I'm referring to my latest commit to enable bitmap strips to be used. When cabbiev2 is converted, it will have 8 bmps.
22:02:56saratogaah just checked the svn logs
22:03:08saratogai think that is a fine solution
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22:06:54austrian_guestSorry to interrupt your conversation, but is there any way in rockbox to use the '%f' tag?
22:07:44linuxstbWhat do you mean?
22:08:08linuxstbIn printf?
22:09:39austrian_guestactually, in snprintf
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22:11:09*domonok1 thinks %f isnt supported in rockbox snprintf, because you shouldnt use float or double :-)
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22:22:41*disorganizer wonders whats more efficient memory/diskaccess wise: bmpstrip or seperate bmp's. or whether there is a difference at all
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22:24:00kakazzaHi, I read and searced through the manual of my ipod mini 2nd gen. But I can't find an option to activate Disk Mode, so my iPod gets detected as an USB mass storage device :/
22:24:13kakazzaAll it does is showing the USB connector symbol
22:24:20linuxstbdisorganizer: memory-wise there is no difference, but it saves disk space, and it speeds up loading.
22:25:27disorganizerok. so there is no urgent need to convert wps's. :-)
22:27:32gevaertskakazza: which version are you using ?
22:27:57kakazzaLatest I guess, using Rockbox Utility
22:28:19BigBambiLatest when?
22:28:22kakazzaProblem is that I also don't know how to properly disconnect it since it doesn't even properly connect
22:28:26BigBambiRockbox is updated many times per day
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22:28:46BigBambikakazza: Could you look up the version is menu - system - rockbox info
22:29:17*BigBambi hands back to gevaerts
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22:30:49gevaertskakazza: I guess you mean 16763 :) r16783 will be sometime next week. Anyway, it's supposed to reboot to the ipod's Emergency Disk Mode, which is apparently not happening for yoy
22:32:00 Quit evz (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:32:01BigBambikakazza: Rockbox on the iPod doesn't yet have a USB mode, it should auto reboot to the Apple emergency disk mode as gevaerts said. As this isn't happening, you can either do this manually or use the OF
22:32:22*gevaerts wonders what's happening on the mini 2nd gen today. First pixelma reports this weir problem, and now this...
22:32:31*gevaerts can't type today
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22:33:34DefineByteoriginal firmware
22:33:44kakazzaAh, ok
22:33:53kakazzaNow to read the manual on how to dual boot, heh
22:36:17kakazzaHow long should it take until rockbox says "loading original firmware"? I pressed "Menu" to boot and then turned on "Hold" now I got an Apple apple :x
22:36:45BigBambiShould be quick
22:36:51BigBambiIt sticks at the apple logo?
22:37:05kakazzaBacklight flashes every uh... 30 seconds I guess
22:37:22BigBambiSo you turned on hold when the Apple logo appeared?
22:37:50kakazzaAh, it now booted into rockbox. Missed the message, doh
22:37:51BigBambiCould you try again just to be sure?
22:37:54 Quit piga ("Leaving")
22:37:59*gevaerts hands back to BigBambi ;)
22:38:15BigBambigevaerts: At least you own an iPod unlike me
22:39:11gevaertsBigBambi: I didn't read the manual ;)
22:39:33BigBambigevaerts: go to the corner and think about what you have('nt) done
22:39:41kakazzaHow quick should I turn on "Hold"?
22:39:55BigBambikakazza: As I understand it, as soon as the apple logo appears
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22:39:56kakazzaI do it pretty quickly
22:40:06kakazzaOk, now to wait another 3 minutes :x
22:40:12*gevaerts stands in the corner
22:40:12BigBambitoo late and it will still boot into rockbox but clear the settings
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22:41:20kakazzaI see, it takes *forever* but boots into rockbox when I turn Hold off again
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22:41:38BigBambikakazza: That is odd
22:42:31BigBambikakazza: Does hold work normally in rockbox?
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22:45:58 Quit DefineByte ("Bye all")
22:46:13BigBambikakazza: Do you have lots of music on the iPod, or itunes on your PC? i.e. would restoring the OF then reinstalling the rockbox bootloader be a major hassle? If not we can try that, if so you should wait until someone who knows more about iPods than me comes along.
22:46:47austrian_guestHi again ;) Does anyone with some spare time want to try my instrument tuner plugin and tell me if it works / how good it works / if it's utter crap etc. ?
22:47:19desowinit works on sansa built-in mic?
22:47:30austrian_guestI think so
22:47:47austrian_guestit should work on any player with built-in mic..
22:47:48desowin(I use digitech to tune my guitar, but I could check if it works)
22:48:20 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
22:48:42austrian_guestthere you can get the newest version
22:49:16amiconnBagder: ping
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22:49:23austrian_guestIt works quite well on my X5, provided the note played is loud enough...
22:49:52kakazzaBigBambi, I could do that. Not happy with it, since I just adjusted the settings, but ok.
22:49:54gevaertsamiconn: can you try some time if your ipod mini still reboots properly on usb plugin with a recent official build ?
22:50:08BigBambikakazza: You can save the settings before you do it
22:50:11kakazzaWait, it just booted properly, lol
22:50:17BigBambiThe OF?
22:50:18kakazzaI guess I was TOO quick with the hold button
22:50:27BigBambiGlad to hear it
22:50:51Massa_Hi everybody!
22:50:53amiconngevaerts: It doesn't. pixelma tested it a few hours ago (when checking the strange "pause on usb unplug" bug)
22:51:13 Nick Massa_ is now known as Massa (
22:51:15amiconnlinuxstb: There seems to be a bug that might be related to viewports in wps:
22:52:16amiconnOn ipod mini, replacing the rockbox_default wps with the cabbiev2 theme works, but when going back, parts of the wps stay...
22:52:23amiconnA reboot fixes that
22:52:51amiconnTo be precise, graphics are removed, but the text lines are kept, including their alignment (centered)
22:53:20linuxstbIs that with the very latest SVN?
22:53:49amiconnno, without the bitmap strip stuff
22:54:01linuxstbBut after my fix to clear the bitmap filenames?
22:54:27linuxstbI'll have a look anyway...
22:54:29desowinaustrian_guest: either it doesn't like my warlock-shaped guitar or it doesn't work with e200, it stays stalled at "D: -32 cents (0Hz)"
22:54:31 Join DerDome [0] (
22:54:44kakazzaI've got a question tho, when using Rockbox Utility, should I boot in rockbox or OF? (in rockbox, there is no proper way to disconnect it, no?)
22:54:54amiconnlinuxstb: yes
22:54:58amiconnI'll retry
22:55:02BigBambikakazza: There is no way to connect it either in rockbox at the moment
22:55:09austrian_guestdesowin: you did use the mic, not the line in?
22:55:19kakazzaBigBambi, so what is my best option?
22:55:22 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
22:55:22linuxstbamiconn: I'll see if I can recreate in the sim
22:55:45BigBambikakazza: Until Rockbox gains a native USB mode for portalplayer targets, you need to use either the OF or emergency disk mode
22:55:48austrian_guestdesowin: and you did not use the simulator, but your e200?
22:55:49kakazzaI need the scrobbler log
22:55:51desowinaustrian_guest: mic, is it configureable somehow?
22:55:57 Quit DerDome (Client Quit)
22:56:00desowinaustrian_guest: of course e200
22:56:00gevaertsamiconn: could you try to find out when it stopped working ?
22:56:05desowinand real guitar, lol
22:56:06kakazzaEmergency Disk Mode doesn't seem to work, heh. But ok!
22:56:33BigBambikakazza: Well it sounds like rockbox isn't rebooting it properly, rather than a problem with EDM
22:56:40amiconngevaerts: It never worked reliably since the detection to distinguish usb from a charger was added, i.e. for more than a year
22:56:43austrian_guestNot yet, it's still in an early stage; if you want to change input, you have to edit 'init_everything()'
22:56:53amiconnOne build worked, another one didn't
22:57:11BigBambikakazza: You can do it manually - menu + select to reboot, then immediately menu + play (I think, maybe select + play) to get into EDM
22:57:37BigBambikakazza: Some iPods (I can't remember which) have a crippled EDM, so the OF will be faster
22:57:51BigBambikakazza: And for scrobbler submission check out QTScrobbler
22:58:22kakazzaI got QTScrobbler, but for that I still need the log of it first
22:58:49BigBambiYep, you go either reboot manually to EDM, or to the OF to grab it
22:59:15desowinyou need log for every submitter
22:59:20*amiconn just experienced the extreme gui lag effect
22:59:24*gevaerts still doesn't understand _why_ it doesn't work properly
22:59:24desowinkakazza: enable log on your player
22:59:37BigBambikakazza: There is a Rockbox USB mode in active development, but there are a few remaining issues left
22:59:45amiconnLoading cabbiev2 while music was playing took like 30 sec or so
22:59:54BigBambidesowin: Yeah, the problem is connecting to the computer to copy the log, not generating it
22:59:55amiconnIn this time, the gui was completely frozen
23:00:12desowinah, ok
23:00:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:02:00gevaertsIt detects the cable properly (otherwise it wouldn't enable the controller), and then gets a usb request from the PC (which triggers it to ask for exclusive disk access, which triggers the SYS_USB_CONNECTED event, which causes the usb screen to show up). The reboot is in the SYS_USB_CONNECT_ACK case when all expected acks are received.
23:02:51*gevaerts doesn't see any hole in there to allow showing the USB screen and not reboot
23:02:59 Quit ColinT (Remote closed the connection)
23:04:20linuxstbamiconn: I can't seem to recreate in the sim - switching between cabbiev2 and rockbox_default seems to work fine.
23:04:23amiconnlinuxstb: Looks like the bug doesn't have to do with viewported wps
23:04:32amiconn...but rather with config loading
23:04:46linuxstbAre you loading the .wps or the theme .cfg?
23:04:47amiconnThe saved config specifies an empty wps, i.e. "wps:"
23:04:57amiconnNo, my saved config
23:05:29gevaertsamiconn: maybe increasing NUM_POLL_READINGS in usb.c would help ?
23:05:35amiconnThis _should_ activate the built-in default wps (because that's what I normally use on the mini), but there's obviously a bug
23:06:05amiconngevaerts: I think it's a race condition, and will go away when powermanagement will be redone properly
23:06:58 Join ColinT [0] (
23:07:15gevaertsit's almost certainly a race condition, but it could still be inside usb.c. I'll look into that to see if I find something
23:07:20amiconnlinuxstb: Loading rockbox_default.wps explicitly does work. Loading a .cfg that says "wps:" doesn't, although it should
23:07:49 Join nls_web [0] (n=5ae71a8f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:07:52amiconngevaerts: I don't think it's in usb.c. It was there long before the beginnings of the usb stack
23:08:21gevaertsMaybe, but usb.c changed since then, and I could very well have added some more bugs
23:08:30 Join gromit`` [0] (
23:08:45*gevaerts sometimes does that
23:08:55austrian_guest@desowin: Could you please try this version of my plugin?
23:08:58linuxstbamiconn: Shouldn't "wps:" load cabbiev2.wps now though?
23:09:19linuxstbTo be honest, I'm not sure what "wps:" should mean...
23:09:40amiconnBtw, the greyscale lib will be possible on the M3, but (1) we can only run the updates at half the internal frame frequency of the lcd (which is ~150Hz - around twice that of most other grey/mono lcds), and (2) even then it will consume ~50% cpu power (when boosted - the only chance to get it running)
23:10:13 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
23:10:17amiconnlinuxstb: Goog question, but it does neither load cabbiev2 nor the builtin default properly
23:11:38desowinaustrian_guest: no change
23:11:44Bagderamiconn: you called sir!
23:12:08austrian_guestDamn! does it, at some stage, splash "recording callback" ?
23:13:06amiconnPreliminary image, just a scaled-down scan for now
23:13:31desowinaustrian_guest: no
23:13:34gevaertsIs my gigabeat the only one that says the battery isn't charged now and then on power on ?
23:13:43linuxstbIs there anything special I should do when adding .bmp files to SVN?
23:13:50austrian_guestdesowin: which means it doesn't even start recording...
23:14:00amiconnlinuxstb: It would be nice to set the mime type
23:14:16amiconnThe fact that bmps are binary is auto-detected by svn
23:14:35linuxstbYes, I got A (bin) when adding.
23:15:52*amiconn should really try to put together autoprops for common rockbox files
23:15:55*linuxstb sees the existing files are image/bmp, so follows suit
23:16:19kakazzaThe rockbox log, when does it list something as *played*?
23:16:25kakazzaAfter a full play or after N seconds?
23:16:57austrian_guestdesowin: Last try. If this does not work, I've got a serious problem...
23:17:16desowinkakazza: accoring to sepc, half of song or 240 seconds
23:17:28kakazzaAny way to change that?
23:17:41BigBambiBagder: Have you spotted the lack of manuals?
23:17:41kakazzaOfficial scrobbling limit is 31 seconds afaik
23:17:44desowinkakazza: it doesn't add if track is under 30 seconds, and it adds not played tracks as "S" in .log file
23:18:15desowinkakazza: songs has to be >30 sec long, yes
23:18:52kakazzaAny way to see it while rockbox is running?
23:19:07Bagdernow there are manuals again!
23:19:07desowinit flushes cache at shutdown
23:19:09 Join nebnav [0] (
23:19:24desowinshut down player, start it again, and then open .scrobbler.log using text viewver
23:19:28 Quit gromit` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:20:10 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:20:34kakazzadesowin, well "start it again" as in "start with select+play" :/
23:20:45kakazzaBooting in Emergency mode doesn't work ;)
23:20:56kakazzaAnd booting the OF is 1:20 as it seems, hah
23:21:00*linuxstb commits the first two versions of cabbie with bitmap strips - help is welcome with the others...
23:21:08 Quit Massa ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
23:21:19 Join lee-qid [0] (
23:21:33BigBambikakazza: Bit of an odd problem you've got there (maybe with timing) - usually booting the OF is fine
23:22:04desowinaustrian_guest: no dice, or my sansa can't be trusted
23:22:12amiconnlinuxstb: pixelma reworked the greyscale cabbiev2 icons. Not yet committed because she wanted to put her work up for discussion on the tracker
23:22:22kakazzaWell, it seems when the backlight is flashing it _tries_ to boot the OF, but doesn't succeed and retries
23:22:34amiconnSo you'll probably don't have to do those (160x128x2 and 138x110x2)
23:22:47austrian_guestdesowin: Thanks for helping me..
23:22:53desowinkakazza: looks like broken bootloader, try different version
23:22:59kakazzaOf the bootloader?
23:23:12kakazzaHow do I check what version I got anyway?
23:23:15linuxstbamiconn: Yes, she mentioned she was working on the greyscale versions.
23:23:27austrian_guestdesowin: I haven't got a clue why it does't even start recording!
23:23:36 Quit nebnav (Client Quit)
23:23:37linuxstbamiconn: I'm curious to know if the 220x176 cabbie is noticably faster to load on your H300...
23:23:47desowinaustrian_guest: sansa e200 is evil!
23:23:48amiconnI would expect it to
23:24:22austrian_guestBut that does not explain why recording does not work!
23:24:26 Join TsubakiIke [0] (n=4aaaf618@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:25:45TsubakiIkeHi, I just finished making a theme for the Gigabeat F, can I have permission to put it in the wps gallery please?
23:27:53 Quit disorganizer ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
23:28:13BigBambiTsubakiIke is our wiki name I assume?
23:28:52kakazzadesowin, how do I use an other version? I used ipodpatcher
23:29:00BigBambiTsubakiIke: done. No spamming now!
23:29:15TsubakiIkeThank you.
23:29:16BigBambikakazza: If you just installed with iPodpatcher it should be fine
23:29:32BigBambijust as in recently
23:29:51kakazzaOk, I'll try with the timing
23:30:19BigBambiAnd I don't know how a known working version would get installed that worked fine except for that oddly specific thing
23:30:26Bagder"with this data sheet we can make rockbox eith one week or two weeks." <= confident user in the meizume forum...
23:30:27 Join Xezzy [0] (
23:30:46kakazzaWeird, now it worked again... I have NO idea what sheme it uses, haha
23:30:47BigBambiIt would be nice to get some of them to come here
23:30:59gevaertsDoes it specify which weeks ?
23:31:18BigBambiI have visions of them turning up with a port that breaks all the other ports, conventions, guidelines etc.
23:31:43Bagderwell, luckily markun is in there
23:31:49Bagderin the mix
23:32:17desowincolombo said it's even easier ;)
23:32:46BigBambiBagder: Ah, that is good
23:32:48gevaertsWill that port run on my dvd player ?
23:33:02 Join gregzx [0] (
23:33:32austrian_guestYou're so narrow minded, gevaerts ;)
23:34:01Xezzywill some1 tell me how rockbox reads tags? cause some files are recognized as "untagged" but thats not true
23:34:10Xezzyi use ipod 5.5 30gb
23:34:24linuxstbWhat format are your files, and what kind of tags do they have?
23:34:37Xezzyid3v1 and id3v2
23:34:56linuxstbRockbox will read the id3v2 tag first, and if that doesn't exist, read the id3v1
23:35:34Xezzysometimes my id3v2 tags dont have title tag, but id3v1 has
23:35:39*amiconn 's H300 is completely dead
23:35:44nls_webso if one field isn't filled in the v2 tag it will be "untagged" in that category, right?
23:35:51amiconnHave to recharge it for a while...
23:35:57linuxstbXezzy: Then I don't think Rockbox will read the id3v1 tag in that case.
23:36:03Xezzyi see
23:36:22Xezzythanks I guess this make sense
23:36:52 Quit theclaw ("n8")
23:36:58linuxstbI'm sure there are tools that you could run on your MP3 files to clean the tags
23:38:08thegeekdoes rockbox support ape tags at all?
23:38:48kakazzaOk, while I'm trying to figure out how to properly dual boot... when I connect the USB cable to my 2nd gen iPod Mini, I get the picture of a USB connector, and nothing happens. It seems like rockbox is freezing (time doesn't move, not loading the battery)
23:39:29nls_webAny better ideas than adding a line to firmware/FILES for each file (one for each cpu basically)?
23:40:00Lloreanthegeek: Only in file formats where they're the "normal" tag.
23:40:43 Quit desowin ()
23:41:09austrian_guestLlorean, sorry to bother you, but could you test a plugin for me?
23:41:27LloreanI can't compile right now, but I do have a whole pile of targets on hand.
23:42:29austrian_guestOK, if you can't compile it's quite senseless ;)
23:43:07LloreanSorry, then.
23:43:26austrian_guestwhat targets have built in mics?
23:43:37austrian_guestapart from the x5 and the e200 ?
23:43:47 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
23:44:53gevaertsI could try on c200
23:45:29austrian_guestThat would be awesome:
23:46:02austrian_guestFor some reason this plugin didn't even start recording on a e200, but works on my X5...
23:46:09gevaertsAt least basic functionality. You won't get lots of usability feedback from me
23:46:35austrian_guestIf it does something, anything at all, I'm happy ;)
23:47:05nls_webaustrian_guest: h300 has builtin mic too
23:47:47amiconnaustrian_guest: Most targets which can record also have built-in mics
23:48:38amiconnAmong them Archos recorders, Ondio FM, Iriver H1x0, H300, H10 (both), iAudio M3, M5, X5, and afaik the sansa too
23:49:37austrian_guestGood; I need to get my instrument tuner plugin running on some other target than my X5
23:50:45austrian_guestAnd for now it needs a built-in mic
23:51:06*amiconn guesses it also requires pcm recording atm
23:51:53austrian_guestWell, I thought every target with built-in mic supports pcm recording?
23:52:23*gevaerts guesses. Archos recorder ?
23:52:30amiconnThe old archoses have a hardware mp3 codec, hence record to mp3
23:52:42amiconnArchos recorder_s_ and the Ondio FM, yes
23:53:29austrian_guestI know that the archos models are different, but all the other ones (incl. sansas) support pcm recording, right?
23:53:30amiconnThey can record to pcm, as we can use a loadable pcm codec for this chip (with permission from Micronas and archos), but this isn't implemented in the core yet
23:53:46amiconnYes, but the sansas don't support recording at 44.1kHz
23:53:49gevaertsaustrian_guest: for H300: tuner.c:269: error: `BUTTON_POWER' undeclared (first use in this function)
23:54:17austrian_guestDoes the H300 have no power button? appearantly yes..
23:54:52amiconnaustrian_guest: There is a plugin for the archoses that records to wav. I think adapting your tuner using parts of that won't be too difficult
23:55:07 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection)
23:55:22austrian_guestgevaerts: replace BUTTON_POWER with BUTTON_OFF
23:55:31austrian_guestThat should work..
23:55:34amiconnThat doesn't need to happen in the first step, and it obviously requires someone with an archos and sufficient low-level knowledge
23:56:00gevaertsaustrian_guest: does it use 44.1kHz ? If so, that would explayn the sansa problems
23:56:01amiconnaustrian_guest: You'll want to add target specific button definitions...
23:56:24austrian_guestThis plugin is at a very early stage
23:56:33austrian_guestI'll add them later
23:57:25austrian_guestdoes rb->pcm_set_frequency() also set the recording sample rate?
23:57:25 Quit Xezzy ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
23:57:43 Quit mirak (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:58:00nls_webaustrian_guest: it would probably need to be fixed pointified to run reasonably well on the archoses too
23:58:31*amiconn usually add the target specific button part as one of the first things to a new plugin nowadays

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