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#rockbox log for 2008-03-29

00:00:58bluebrotherBigBambi: sorry, was distracted
00:01:20*gevaerts grabs his ipod to see if he can reproduce the bug as well
00:01:43preglowgevaerts: the asm code always processes two samples at once, i'm quite sure you can reproduce the bug by forcing dsp to process blocks of odd size
00:02:01BigBambibluebrother: No problems. It seems that ubuntu hardy and debian ubuntu
00:02:06BigBambidamn it
00:02:17 Join CyBergRind|w [0] (n=cbr@
00:03:37BigBambibluebrother: No problems. It seems that ubuntu hardy and debian lenny no longer have latex-ucs, and I didn't notice when I tried to install it along with the other packages
00:03:39 Join Xerion_ [0] (
00:04:04gevaertspreglow: any suggestion on forcing this ? Would playing several 16bit mono wavs with an odd number of samples do the trick ?
00:05:16 Quit roolku ()
00:05:48 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@unaffiliated/kugel)
00:06:21 Quit preglow (
00:06:47NJoinpreglow [0] (i=thomj@rockbox/developer/preglow)
00:06:58 Join thegeek_ [0] (
00:07:09BigBambibluebrother: Hmmm, but installing an older version of latex-ucs didn't fix it :(
00:07:15*BigBambi continues searching
00:07:17 Quit preglow (
00:07:41NJoinpreglow [0] (i=thomj@rockbox/developer/preglow)
00:09:21 Quit Zarggg (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:09:38 Join Zarggg [0] (n=z@
00:09:39bluebrotherBigBambi: if you pdflatex rockbox-build.tex from the manual folder, will that work?
00:10:01BigBambibluebrother: I'll check in a sec, I've managed to arse something else up now :)
00:10:29 Quit Insectoid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:11:00 Join CaptainKwel [0] (
00:11:28 Quit Zarggg (Client Quit)
00:11:52 Join Zarggg [0] (
00:12:11 Quit Zarggg (Client Quit)
00:12:26preglowgevaerts: no, i can't really think of any way to make it happen naturally right now
00:12:41pixelmathe H10 recording screen button map seems a little buggy too - you can't go up in your list of settings because then you leave the recording screen at the same time... (in the sim but wouldn't surprise me if it was different on target)
00:13:06preglowgevaerts: any particular codecs that makes this happen?
00:13:34gevaertspreglow: Y-Signal reported it, and IIRC he uses mp3
00:13:45preglowgevaerts: only happens at the end of files, or?
00:14:00preglowhmm, no, that would not explain it
00:14:02gevaertsI don't know.
00:14:06preglowit's possible it might happen at the very start to
00:14:09BigBambibluebrother: pdflatex rockbox-build.tex gives the same error
00:14:10 Join Zarggg [0] (
00:15:30bluebrotherrockbox.tex should hold the \begin{document} somewhere
00:16:00pixelmaoh dear... why does it always get so complicated... the m5 manual's generated features.tex looks all wrong :\
00:16:24bluebrotherotherwise it would be easy ;-)
00:17:09BigBambibluebrother: Yes, rockbox.tex has \begin{document} on the third line
00:17:11preglowgevaerts: anyway, bug happens because dst is not aligned by four
00:17:24bluebrotherBigBambi: strange.
00:17:56pixelmamust be something wrong here (at least the daily built manuals look more correct than mine)
00:17:59*Rincewind is going to sleep now
00:18:23 Quit Zarggg (Client Quit)
00:18:34preglowgevaerts: did the tracks play at all or just data abort at once?
00:18:44 Quit Rincewind ("bye")
00:18:48 Quit [CBR]Unspoken|w (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:20:00gevaertspreglow: I think the data abort only happened "occasionally". I'm checking the log now
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00:20:49gevaertsY-Signal: are you still there ?
00:20:50 Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.)
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00:21:43pixelmabluebrother: just needed a make clean and reconfigure, phew :)
00:22:04 Quit Xerion (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:22:04 Nick Xerion_ is now known as Xerion (
00:22:49bluebrotherhrm. "ls *.{cpp,h}" does work correctly but "svn diff *.{cpp,h}" doesn't? Wtf ...?
00:23:03*BigBambi gives up for tonight and goes to bed
00:23:18BigBambibluebrother, pixelma: Thanks for the help
00:25:02 Quit thegeek (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:25:20pixelmasorry you couldn't get it to work yet, and g'night
00:25:21jhMikeSNico_P: pong (6hr return time :)
00:27:03 Join Zarggg [0] (
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00:28:18 Quit CaptainKewl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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00:44:59bluebrotherpixelma: still working on the broken manuals=
00:45:27pixelmayes, I'm about to commit (also prepared another small change) crashed with 16718 (?), the latter of the two, so looks like you are correct
00:45:58bluebrothernice. Just recognized that I missed a file during my commit yesterday
00:46:05 Quit phinze ()
00:46:18pixelmabluebrother: which one is it?
00:46:25Y-SignalI was gone for about an hour :P
00:47:28bluebrotherI changed ActionSettings* to ActionSetting* in recording.tex
00:47:31gevaertsY-Signal: great. preglow is working on the bug, and he would like some more information on when exactly it happens.
00:47:57 Join Zarggg_ [0] (
00:48:13gevaertsY-Signal: does it happen at the start or end of a track, or also somewhere in the middle ?
00:48:47 Quit Zarggg_ (Client Quit)
00:49:10Y-SignalSeems to always be the start
00:49:51Y-SignalIt may get out a fraction of a second of the sound, I'm not sure, but always right at the start
00:50:20pixelmabluebrother: that would have broken all other manuals
00:50:39gevaertsOK. does it happen for the first track you play, or only after a while ?
00:50:52bluebrotherhmm −− for some reason they build fine for me.
00:50:57*bluebrother scratches head
00:50:59pixelmabluebrother: and as I said - there are differences on most targets
00:51:05 Quit CaptainKwel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:51:12gevaertspreglow: if you need more information, now is the time to ask ;)
00:51:36Y-SignalNever the first track
00:52:35gevaertsThanks. I'm out of questions (just playing message-forwarder here), but maybe preglow has some more ?
00:52:38bluebrotherI somewhat lost track of the details of the manual ...
00:52:45pixelmabluebrother: I renamed it to ActionRecSettings* (sounds a bit weird but less confusing)
00:54:12preglowY-Signal: and always mp3?
00:54:42Y-SignalHard to say
00:54:56Y-Signalthere are SPC files too but they don't get played often
00:54:56pixelmabluebrother: otherwise there would be two different definitions (except on the Ipods and H10) of ActionSetting* - one in the settings "context" and one in the recording "context"... I don't think you can tell latex to pick the right one, or would that be possible?
00:55:00LloreanY-Signal: Do you have crossfade on?
00:55:05Y-SignalI do
00:55:17Y-Signalbut it's not always being used when this happens
00:55:26pixelmabluebrother: without too much hassle that is
00:55:30Lloreanpreglow: The crossfade "screeching white noise" bug has been replaced with a crossfade Data Abort bug, according to the most recent report on flyspray.
00:55:33LloreanY-Signal: Try turning it off.
00:55:46preglowLlorean: that would not happen in output_sample_stereo
00:55:57Y-Signalgotta put bugged rockbox back on
00:56:01preglowand this does, this is a pure alignment bug
00:56:17preglowY-Signal: do some builds of rockbox work, while others don't?
00:56:39Lloreanpreglow: gevaerts hazarded a guess at which build caused his problem earlier, iirc.
00:56:56preglowbuschel's asm commit
00:57:08kugelwhich targets doesn't have LCD_BITMAP?
00:57:09preglowi know why the bug happens, just not exactly what triggers it
00:57:16preglowi really should just stop talking about it, and stat debugging it
00:57:26pixelmakugel: the Archos Player
00:57:33preglowbut there'll be no debugging tonight
00:57:34kugeleither says that every target has LCD, or something is wrong
00:58:01Y-Signalpreglow, gev's guess sure seemed correct...3/19 is fine, 3/20 is bad
00:58:04pixelmakugel: it has an LCD, just not a bitmap LCD but charcell
00:58:07kugelor I'm getting the "LCD: 11x2" wring
00:58:17kugelah ok
00:58:28pixelma11 characters on two lines
00:58:41Y-SignalWhy does nobody else seem to have my problem?
00:58:52Y-SignalI would think that this would be widely occurring
00:59:03 Quit Zarggg (Connection timed out)
00:59:22LloreanY-Signal: There's no reason at all bugs can't be obscure and dependent on the combination of options you've picked, something about your music, or even a combination of both.
00:59:52LloreanUntil we know exactly where the bug is, it's hard to say what exactly is making it happen to you, but not to other 5G owners.
01:00:00gevaertsY-Signal: I've been wondering about that as well. Maybe your mp3's are encoded slightly differently than usual
01:00:10pixelmakugel: 11 charactes on each of the two lines that is (so 22 altogether) ... ;)
01:00:20kugelok thanks
01:00:23*Llorean still wants the "crossfade" test, even if it "can't" happen there, because he's curious.
01:00:28Y-Signalwell, I can't find the crossfade option to disable
01:00:46LloreanY-Signal: I'm not sure where it is, but I'm sure the manual tells where.
01:00:53Y-SignalTHERE it is
01:01:04Y-Signalin general\playback, okay
01:01:17*gevaerts suspects that Llorean has heard the "can't happen" line too often just before reproducing a bug ;)
01:01:18jhMikeSmore 5g-only weirdness?
01:01:43bluebrotherpixelma: no, I don't think that's possibly (with acceptable cost)
01:01:56 Quit asdrubal (Nick collision from services.)
01:02:01gevaertsjhMikeS: probably all arm targets. An alignment bug in dsp_arm.S
01:02:10LloreanjhMikeS: Yes. Y-Signal has a new crash, and one of the crossfade-screech reporters is reporting the screech has been replaced with a very similar crash.
01:02:46gevaertsLlorean: do you have the crossfade FS-number at hand ?
01:02:55Lloreangevaerts: Gimme a minute
01:03:13Lloreangevaerts: 8651
01:03:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:03:41pixelmabluebrother: I'd still like to know why the other manuals built for you (because that's different from my solution adding the ActionSettings* (well renamed too) to the H10 and recording Ipods platform files). Or should I not bother and just commit?
01:03:52pixelmawith your change
01:04:10*Llorean guesses the next obvious question for Y-Signal would be "what is the sample rate of your songs", I suppose.
01:05:29Y-Signalwide range
01:05:37Y-Signalseems to be crossfade
01:05:49Y-Signalit's better with it disabled
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01:06:14gevaertspreglow: according to the FS report, this new crossfade data abort seems to be sometimes at the same address as this one, and sometimes in channels_process_sound_chan_mono()
01:06:19preglowY-Signal: anywho, i'll see if i have time to fix it, and will relay it on to the guy who introduced the bug in the first place anyway
01:06:35Y-Signalcool, thanks
01:06:46LloreanY-Signal: Better meaning "doesn't happen" or "happens less"?
01:07:21*Llorean guesses it's hard to say "doesn't happen", I suppose.
01:07:28preglowgevaerts: hmm, a data abort in that function sounds unlikely
01:07:55preglownot unless the pointers are seriously garbled
01:08:34gevaertspreglow: it says 0x40000250, and channels_process_sound_chan_mono() is from 0x40000174 to 0x40000254(exclusive) if I read the map correctly
01:09:41kugelok, I think my patch is good now
01:09:57kugeljust need to add "list viewport: ..." to every default viewport
01:10:05Y-SignalWell, it takes a while to lock up if it's going to
01:10:07Y-Signalbut so far, it has not
01:10:28LloreanY-Signal: Can you try SPCs? You said those were worse.
01:10:45Y-SignalIt's playing mostly SPCs right now
01:10:48Y-Signaland doing fine
01:10:55 Quit csc` ("Powering Off")
01:11:20bluebrotherpixelma: I'd say commit it −− I had a rather annoying headache yesterday, maybe I did something wrong
01:11:20jhMikeSgevearts: but channels_process_sound_chan_mono is only 52 bytes
01:11:45LloreanIt could still be an untamed pointer from elsewhere, though, couldn't it?
01:12:30kugelI have a question: As of now, with my patch you can assign fg and bg colors for the list (just like in the wps)
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01:13:00kugelbut the fg color set in the settings gets overridden. Is that ok?
01:13:07gevaertsjhMikeS: it could of course be in a static function somewhere
01:13:27Lloreankugel: We did some talking on that earlier, and I think the decision was yes, those settings should matter less with time.
01:13:37kugelJust to let you know: the colors can be left out in the viewport definition
01:13:53Y-SignalI gotta go, I'm sure I'll see one of you later
01:14:06LloreanY-Signal: Good luck, hope the crashes stay stopped.
01:14:07Y-Signalthanks for looking into this so much
01:14:16jhMikeSgevearts: Yes. I think that puts it in the last instruction of sample_output_mono.
01:14:39 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
01:14:46kugelLlorean: unfortunately the statusbar has still the color
01:15:08gevaertsjhMikeS: my objdump −−syms output seems to agree
01:15:18Lloreankugel: Until there's status bar themeing with viewports. :)
01:15:23kugelso, when I have set FFFFFF in the list viewport, and FF00FF in the global settings, the list will be white and the statusbar pink
01:15:33pixelmabluebrother: ah ok. Somehow this reminds me that currently I don't trust a manual that's not built after a "make clean" (my impression is that some changes are not correctly applied then, don't have an example at hand but I experienceed this)
01:15:37jhMikeSor is the first of sample_output_stereo (I think I miscounted)
01:15:40 Quit mirak (SendQ exceeded)
01:15:52Lloreankugel: The discussion mostly came to the agreement that while the setting still works now, it'll gradually fade out naturally as things get upgraded. I'm sure it'll still affect Radio and Recording screens too, right now.
01:16:09gevaertssample_output_stereo starts at 0x40000254
01:16:15kugelyea, right, quickscreen too
01:16:26LloreanBut this will change, in time.
01:16:37 Join mirak [0] (
01:17:07kugelI think it's actually good that the font and color can left out, the values of the parent viewport are applied then
01:17:13gevaertsAnd it crashing on basically the same instruction in mono and stereo cases sounds pretty reasonable to me
01:17:39kugelto be honest, every setting can be left out
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01:18:12Lloreankugel: As with other settings, if you leave out a setting it should simply mean the setting doesn't change.
01:18:36LloreanSo if someone sets the viewport with a specific color, then someone re-sets the viewport with new dimensions but doesn't include a color, it should keep the old color that was set, to be consistent with how other settings work.
01:18:40 Quit sarixe ("(EE) Failed to load "quit" module")
01:18:44kugelI meant, if I say "list viewport: 12,15,140,160"
01:18:51Nico_PjhMikeS: I'm back... I wanted to talk about your patch
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01:19:09kugelfont and colors values will come from the parent viewport (so global_settings)
01:19:16Nico_Poh I see you committed it
01:19:23 Quit Y-Signal ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:20:21*kugel loves linuxstb for the parse_list function btw
01:20:42Nico_PjhMikeS: what's the difference between the new code and the old one you rbought back for the 5G?
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01:21:55kugelLlorean: What are you thinking about the leaving the traling values out?
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01:22:21kugelLlorean: I'd actually thought of giving every default theme the list viewport, but only until font
01:22:43 Quit piga ("Leaving")
01:22:57jhMikeSNico_P: The difference between the hacks or the difference between the previous revision to the patch?
01:23:11*gevaerts decides that it's time to go to sleep
01:23:31Nico_PjhMikeS: the change you made that somehow doesn't work well on the 5G
01:24:04 Quit sarixe (Client Quit)
01:24:37 Quit gevaerts ("sleeping")
01:25:54jhMikeSNico_P: It seems there's some issue with using struct mutex in that particular place that using a non-blocking lock seems to cure. Though with no disk contention there isn't a difference. BTW, was the pausing delayed even if buffering was allowed to complete?
01:26:51Nico_Ponce buffering was complete, pausing was instantaneous IIRC
01:26:57kugelLlorean: Ok sorry. I didn't pay attention to sim. No setting can be left out within the viewport definition
01:29:36jhMikeSNico_P: does the audio thread need to access the disk as well while buffering for anything?
01:29:44Nico_PjhMikeS: yes
01:30:32Nico_Pit reads metadata from files
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01:35:09kugelOk, what's the fastest way to add "list viewport: 0,0,{LCD_WIDTH},{LCD_HEIGHT},1, FFFFFF, 000000 to every default theme?
01:36:05linuxstbWhy not just "list viewport:" ?
01:36:42kugelgood question
01:36:53 Quit CaptainKewl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:37:03kugelthat's a good idea. The viewport parsing function would reject it and apply the default values
01:37:20linuxstbWhat does your patch do with the unused screen area? Is it cleared?
01:37:23kugelwhich is wanted
01:37:37kugellinuxstb: my patch doesn't edit the parent viewport at all
01:37:44kugelthe unused area is just fine
01:39:11ChicoryEr, this is going to seem remedial, but I've been looking over the manual and I must be missing something.
01:39:34ChicoryThe screen blips off after let's say 10 seconds, and I don't know how to increase that value.
01:39:50linuxstbThat's the backlight setting
01:40:06kugellinuxstb: Yea, just using "list viewport:" will reset the list. Of course...I wonder why I didn't come to that idea
01:40:28Chicorylinuxstb: ... Wow. How didn't I know that? XD;;;
01:41:11kugelhave you tried settings->general settings->display?
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01:41:41ChicoryI guess I thought that "backlight" would be more about brightness values. XD;;
01:41:52ChicoryAnd that it would be under "power settings" somewhere.
01:41:52 Quit joey1 (Client Quit)
01:42:03pixelmawell that would be the brightness setting...
01:42:29linuxstbpixelma: Is there one on the Sansas though?
01:42:33ChicoryEh, I've just been sub-par mentally all day. :s
01:42:55pixelma(if setting the brightness is possible on your device)
01:43:09pixelmalinuxstb: yes (at least I think so)
01:43:16kugelChicory: I'm not entirely sure if that's given for you (since I don't know your player), but my player does show both backlight and brightness under display (display->LCD settings actually)
01:43:44*linuxstb thinks Chicory has got the message now...
01:44:11pixelmalinuxstb: I was thinking correctly (or so) :)
01:45:12*Chicory nods.
01:45:16ChicoryThanks for the heads-up though.
01:45:27 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:45:36ChicoryAs soon as I knew the menu I was supposed to look for, finding the setting I wanted was much easier to find.
01:46:03pixelmalinuxstb: can you tell me now how to get the recording settings menu from within the recording screen on an Ipod? ;)
01:46:22*linuxstb goes to get an ipod
01:48:17kugelOk, I never needed this, and I feel a bit dumb, but I just can't spot the default themes in the source. Only the wps's
01:48:49 Quit waldo (Remote closed the connection)
01:48:59linuxstbpixelma: Press MENU to leave the recording screen, then bring up the context menu on the Recording item...
01:49:29pixelmakugel: the cfg files will be generated during the build process with the help of WPSLIST
01:49:53pixelmalinuxstb: that's not exactly how it works on other devices...
01:50:23kugelpixelma: thanks
01:50:45pixelmalinuxstb: you can use the context menu from the menu there too but you also have the option to call it directly from within the recording screen
01:50:48linuxstbOther devices have more buttons...
01:51:24pixelmalinuxstb: the OndioFM doesn't - and I get the menu there
01:52:08linuxstbCan you also leave the recording screen without stopping recording?
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01:52:48 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
01:53:50pixelmadon't think so - but this sounds weird. I never would have expected this
01:55:08linuxstbI'm not saying the current ipod keymapping is ideal...
01:55:48mud_rb__is there a way to leave the recording menu without stopping recording on some targets?
01:56:05mud_rb__that would actually be nice...
01:57:20pixelmawhat is the advantage over calling the menu directly? As you say there is a "leave recording screen without stopping recording" and a "stop recording" (or should be) - so you could make the former a "call menu" or not?
01:58:07linuxstbYou mean remove the feature to leave the recording screen without stopping?
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02:00:13pixelmawould be the case then - I'm not aware of any other target you could do this, just wondering
02:01:20kugelok, this is over my head. never seen a perl source honestly
02:01:44pixelmalinuxstb: is that really a "leave recording screen without stopping the recording", I can't even imagine that...
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02:03:16linuxstbNo, I'm mistaken... It just does the same as "stop" (long play). So yes, that should be changed.
02:05:38 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
02:06:20*pixelma doesn't know what to write in a commit message... probably too late
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02:09:33jhMikeSNico_P: Shouldn't the cancel_cpu_boost call be conditional so it's not called if still buffering?
02:11:01kugellinuxstb: Not sure, if i it's matters. But how to I make clear, that it should insert "list viewport:" only if the target has HAVE_LCD_BITMAP?
02:11:04jhMikeSthe queue_peek call seems like it can just be queue_empty again since it doesn't need the message id now
02:12:29kugelEveryone else is free to answer my question too
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02:30:06 Quit midgey ()
02:31:44kugelneed help with
02:33:36kugel"list viewport:" doesn't show up in the theme.cfg
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02:46:29kugellinuxstb: wouldn't you think that "list viewport: default" or "list viewport: -" is better than just "list viewport:"
02:46:34 Quit Zarggg (Connection timed out)
02:46:49kugelthough, it'd probably misslead from the syntax
02:46:58Lloreankugel: Leaving it blank is also how you reset a backdrop, iirc
02:47:16 Quit Chicory (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:47:36kugelLlorean: I'm can't get blank to work, will take a look at backdrop
02:48:26linuxstbkugel: Do you have a patch for
02:48:44kugellinuxstb: No
02:49:09linuxstbI mean can you post a patch with your changes?
02:50:19kugelwait a second
02:50:35kugelI'm copying from the backdrop section right now, that'll probably work
02:51:27kugelOk, works
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02:57:38Beta2KCan I easily compile just a plugin without going through the whole build process?
02:57:46Gartralcould soeone tell me why theres a buzzing sound in the segment of a recording that the lcd screen was active?
02:58:09linuxstbGartral: Are you using a Sansa?
02:58:23linuxstbBeta2K: No. "make rocks" is the closest.
02:58:33linuxstbGartral: I believe that's a known hardware issue.
02:59:22Gartralbut unlike the listed issue, i only hear the buzzing in a recording done from mic, and not in general useage
02:59:44Gartrali dont have the buzzing anywhere else
02:59:51kugelmeh, I copied from backdrop, and now I have list viewport twice
03:00:21linuxstbGartral: I thought the problem was that the mic picked up electrical noise from the LCD?
03:00:54Gartralthats MY problem, the listed problem it interference in playback of ANY song
03:00:59linuxstbGartral: But I don't know the Sansa hardware, so probably best to wait for someone who does...
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03:02:04Gartralmerh... i like it anyway, i got the sansa specifically for rockbox
03:02:42LloreanGartral: You won't hear it during playback unless you have low impedance headphones.
03:03:01LloreanIt's a lot easier to get it while recording, since everyone has the same internal mic. :-P
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03:03:13Beta2KThanks linuxstb
03:03:25Gartrali wear a $3 pair, and a $50 pair, i dont hear it either way
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03:03:50kugellinuxstb: Done. But not yet prepared for default customlists (i.e. list viewport: 0,0,...."), only for default "list viewport:"
03:03:59LloreanGartral: And I can hear it with my $20 pair, and not my $80 pair. It's the impedance and sensitivity that matter, which doesn't actually bear any real relation to cost.
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03:04:27Beta2KPourly designed HV supply for the LCD?
03:04:54Gartraltrue, and seeing as the package just said Sanyo Headphone and no info, i cant give the impedence levels
03:05:22kugellinuxstb: I'm gonna upload the complete patch to the tracker now
03:05:33mud_rb__Gartral: that's what the internet is for :) but if you don't have the problem, it seems rather pointless...even if you do i guess
03:06:04Gartralbut the mic picks up the buzz... and it gets captured in the audio...
03:06:13linuxstbkugel: It would be useful if you could describe your changes, plus what you think is left to do with the patch.
03:06:47kugellinuxstb: sure, I was about to do that :) changed much since the v5 version
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03:06:51mud_rb__Gartral: yeah, happens on mine too. i just set the backlight to turn off really quick when i need to record, i don't think there's much else you can do
03:07:00kugellinuxstb: I wonder if you are really interested in this patch
03:07:11kugelor any other dev
03:07:23Gartrali just switch lock and BL goes out :P
03:07:52Gartralwait, patch for what?
03:08:08kugellinuxstb: What I forgot: I asked you some minutes ago how to tell that this setting should only go into the cfg if the target has HAVE_LCD_BITMAP
03:09:37LloreanGartral: List viewports, more than one conversation is happening at once here.
03:09:42Gartralalso, just quick random bug, turning Rockdoom sideways and booting ANY wad causes the player to crash with a error code
03:09:59Gartralok, thought it was pertaining too mw
03:12:04linuxstbkugel: I think the feature of custom list positions is generally wanted, so if your patch works well, I can't see why it won't be committed.
03:14:07linuxstbkugel: Doesn't it just copy the list viewport setting from WPSLIST?
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03:14:39kugelI wasn't sure which theme is for what player actually, so I coped into every <wps> :/
03:15:24linuxstbThere's just one I think - progressive.11x2x1.wps (11x2 is the dimensions of our charcell target)
03:16:34kugelDo you mean that one, which only consists of the name and author? :)
03:18:21linuxstbYes, there aren't many theme settings on the Player... (i.e. none)
03:19:22kugelye, i see
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03:24:33kugelis it me, or does charcells don't know about parse_list?
03:24:46kugeldo not*
03:25:19kugelah, yea
03:25:39kugellinuxstb: ^
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03:34:01Gartralrockbox is amazing
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03:35:23Gartralanything that can take a peice of hardware that sounds like the rusty tin can orchestra, and make it sound like what it does now, truely deserves some form of applaud
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03:37:19webguest55hi people i just started using this program on my ipod video 30gig last night and now it wont loadat all just wondering if someone could spare a min and help me out?
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03:38:10webguest93hi people i just started using this program on my ipod video 30gig last night and now it wont loadat all just wondering if someone could spare a min and help me out?
03:38:24kugellinuxstb: I think i have most of your objections fixed, except the last one (I'm refering to your comment in FS8799)
03:39:48kugelI'm not sure how to fix that though
03:40:50webguest93kugel : hi people i just started using this program on my ipod video 30gig last night and now it wont loadat all just wondering if someone could spare a min and help me out?
03:41:05webguest93hay man can u help me out
03:41:30kugelNo, sorry
03:41:48pixelmawebguest93: did you try resetting your Ipod?
03:42:17webguest93my pc dosent actualy recognise my ipod when i plug it in
03:42:49webguest93i have it connected now and i have a blank screan
03:44:16pixelmano, I mean a manual reset, holding the reset button combo - menu+select I think for quite some time (up to 1 minute reported)
03:45:00webguest93ill try holding it for a whole min
03:46:58webguest93nope not even for over a min
03:47:05webguest93if i sent it back t apple do you think they could reload it without recognising the change in the program
03:49:00Lloreanwebguest93: Did you turn hold off and on first?
03:49:03LloreanEr, on and off, rather
03:49:54webguest93i togeled the hold button
03:50:59LloreanAnd nothing comes on screen at all?
03:51:15webguest93it worked last night
03:51:32webguest93i turned it of and on a few times testing it and it was all good
03:51:39LloreanLeave it in to charge for a day or two, then try again.
03:51:55LloreanRockbox can't prevent Menu+Select from resetting it, so there's something else going on here.
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03:53:13webguest93ok cool ill try that then,i have one of the old powerpoint charger conecters so ill leave it conected to that
03:54:05webguest93do you think apple would recognis it if i returned it to them to fix cause it's still in warenty
03:54:23webguest93they would reset it straight off wouldent they
03:54:52LloreanIf they look at the disk at all, they'll recognize it. As well, you've almost certainly violated your end of the warranty, so they're not obligated to fix it.
03:55:33webguest93i guess the worst they will do is charge me to fix it or return it to me
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03:57:10webguest93thanks for your help
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03:58:44kugelLlorean, linuxstb: I uploaded the new version
04:01:46kugelcomments are appreciated
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04:02:43Lloreankugel: I agree that other non-list screens should not be touched by this patch at all. I suspect when they're viewportified the appropriate decisions for what to do with them (inherit the list viewport, use a custom separate one, etc) can be debated.
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04:03:50kugelOk, I come to the same decision
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04:04:39kugelif at all make them consistent, then in another patch, I'd say
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04:08:37kugelIMO the text editor should be allways fullscreen, with white foreground and blackground, regardless of the list or other viewports or settings
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04:10:55Lloreankugel: Some people might disagree (black background, white foreground or green foreground are often considered high-contrast and and "accessibility" feature) but overall, yes, it probably should reset the viewport to fullscreen and use its own settings. I'm not saying you need to implement options within it, "sane" defaults like black text on white backdrop can be used for now, I'm sure.
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04:11:55kugelI wasn't about to implement a setting, don't worry :)
04:12:52kugelthe problem is only, that the viewports use the list dimensions for some reason (bug? if yes, not caused but discovered by patch). I don't really like that
04:14:07LloreanDon't quote me on this (I haven't really looked into the code side of viewports yet) but something I read suggests that the plugins inherit from their parent, which I guess would be the list?
04:16:27kugelI don't know
04:16:47kugelprobably, I guess that's why JdGordon_ made this commit
04:17:05kugelto make it possible to draw into their own parent
04:17:15kugel(if I got this correctly)
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04:18:41kugelLlorean: for your information, the bin size increase with my customlist patch is 1024 bytes
04:18:52kugeldidn't think that it would be that much
04:19:56kugelBut I think most of this is caused by making the generic viewport parsing function, which linuxstb suggested (and which is a good idea after all)
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04:20:19kugelbin size increase meassured with an e200 bin btw
04:20:28LloreanThere's always going to be some bin cost for new features. The key is spending it where it gives the most benefit. :)
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04:22:33kugelSure, I totally agree
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04:24:19kugelI just made the settings, since I absolutely hate hidden settings, you know
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04:26:28kugellinuxstb: aww, I wanted to post a patch fixing those #ifdefs :(
04:28:10kugeljust kidding
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04:48:29scorche8 lines in a row =/
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05:40:39mud-rb_what exactly does the "debug" option do in configure (for advanced build types)? does it only have meaning for the simulator or something? because i can never seem to get it to build on e200...
05:40:59mud-rb_i mean when i try to build for the actual device, not the sim
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05:44:47TerraUh, if anyone can actually see me, and I'm not lagging, could someone please help me out with the themes for rockbox (iPod Nano)?
05:45:18mud-rb_what do you need help with specifically?
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06:37:20Klapauciusanyone here a sansa e200 user?
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06:38:21Klapauciusdo you use the bookmark feature?
06:38:42mud-rbnot really, no
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06:38:58mud-rbif you ask your question someone might be able to help anyways
06:39:03Klapauciusit doesn't appear to work on mine
06:39:12KlapauciusI can open the bookmark menu
06:39:21Klapauciusbut I can't seem to create a new bookmark
06:40:23Klapauciusany ideas?
06:40:32mud-rbdoes it give you an error or anything? i don't have any music on my player right this second (working on a plugin) so i can't really try it.
06:40:57mud-rband has it ever worked, or is this the first time you're trying it?
06:41:15Klapauciusfirst time I'm trying it
06:41:17Klapauciusno errors
06:41:22Klapauciusjust no action whatsoever
06:42:34mud-rblet me look in the manual, i don't even know what that feature is supposed to do... (did you by the way? some features are...less than obvious without checking the manual)
06:44:04Klapauciusthought I did
06:44:16Klapauciusseemed pretty straightforward
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06:46:00mud-rbif i understand this correctly, it's just supposed to create a bookmark file when you tell it to. it doesn't really mention any other response. have you tried loading the file again after turning on the "Load Last Bookmark" option?
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06:47:05Klapauciusyeah, there are no bookmarks created in the first place
06:47:12KlapauciusI get a message saying 'no bookmarks'
06:49:06mud-rbthis mentions a "Maintain a List of Recently Used Bookmarks" option. is that turned on? (assuming that the Recent Bookmarks menu is where you are looking)
06:50:16Klapauciusall options are enabled
06:51:54mud-rbthen i'm not sure. is this a recent build of rockbox? not that i'd expect it to matter much, i'm fairly sure this feature has been stable for quite some time...
06:52:11Klapauciusyeah, recent build
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06:55:18mud-rbyou might try looking directly for the .bmark file on the drive, see if it's created at all. i'm not sure i'm reading this right, but it seems like it should be in the same directory as the sound file
06:55:50mud-rbother than that, you might have to wait for the guys that know what they're doing to return from idle :)
06:56:25KlapauciusI'll check the forums, but thanks a lot for your time!
06:56:33mud-rbnp, sorry i couldn't really help
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09:50:25mrkikoHi all !
09:50:28mrkikoI'm finally back again
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09:50:38mrkikoI would like to ask a question...
09:50:56mrkikoWhy does actually rockbox restart the same song when advancing in playlist?
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09:52:29mrkikoIt happens reliably effectively when auto-change dir is enabled and you press "next" when you're listening the last song. At that point the song will restart and if you press "next" again, then the second song in the next dir is played, the first is skipped.
09:52:30CricriYay, just received my Sansa e270
09:52:37mrkikoTo listen to the first song you should:
09:52:40CricriNow checking the instructions before jumping in
09:52:45mrkiko* press twice the "back key"
09:52:52mrkiko* press wtice the next key
09:54:15mrkikoThis has always been a rockbox behaviour...
09:54:49mrkikoAnd another note: rockbox crashes not reliably when I'm on the file browser and no songs are playing. When songs are playing it works fine (never crashed)
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10:04:44mrkikool_schoola: yuu at school also!
10:04:47mrkiko:) good
10:05:19mrkikoCricri: instructions located at?
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10:06:22*mrkiko says "wow"
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13:24:51leftrightRockbox's primary function is music playback right ?, so how come playback is broken ?, and it has been broken for a while, playback is broken in the sense that when a track change occurs it will sometimes play the same track AGAIN, or it will repeat track "x" a few tracks down the road. It would be nice to at least have FUNCTIONAL playback on my music player, as it stands rockbox is irritating to use
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13:25:55preglowleftright: well, no one has told us, obviously
13:26:07preglowleftright: file a bug report, if anyone had noticed it, it would surely have been fixed
13:26:37Buschelahh, good you're here preglow. i've read the logs and saw my change shows errors...
13:26:39pixelmapreglow: ? (known to me, and there were a few complaints here,,,)
13:27:18leftrightpreglow, I reall;y respect the work you put in, but I am fed up with the issues that playback has, my H140 is a music playback machine, so at least get that right
13:27:18Buscheli can reproduce the error
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13:28:10preglowBuschel: ah, good, i was just thinking about telling you :)
13:28:42preglowBuschel: storing double words needs the pointer to be dword aligned, and i don't know if that is guaranteed for that particular pointer
13:28:43pixelmaleftright: umm... do you think that this tone will get it done quicker? If it was easy someone had fixed it... try fix it yourself and file a patch...
13:28:49Buschelpreglow: if i change the asm-code to only process 1 sample per loop it still crashes :/
13:29:01preglowBuschel: weird
13:29:08Buschelpreglow: now trying to use strh instead of packing
13:29:17preglowBuschel: but data abort means something is unaligned
13:29:29preglowand a int16 pointer being unaligned is rare
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13:30:41leftrightpixelma, no that tone wont, but this bug has been evident for while, and in the ,meanwhile while important bugs persist rockbox gets prettier
13:30:54Buschelpreglow: now it crashed in fiq_handler (pcm-pp,o)
13:32:05leftrightthe question is, what is more important a "pretty" looking rockbox, or a solid playback engine ?
13:32:07Buschelgotta rebuild
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13:33:57pixelmaleftright: but you can't force people to work on everything, for example it would not be possible for me at all to change something in the playback engine without studying C and this specific code for I don't know... a year?
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13:35:52leftrightpiexlma, I understand, and you do good work in your field, but while advancement is good surely having the basic functionality of a music player working right is important and should take priority over "beautification"
13:36:19leftrightpexelma not piexlma
13:36:30leftrighturrgh, pixelma
13:37:15pixelmaI would rather want stable playback too but I know I can't force it this way
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13:40:00Buschelpreglow: hmm, when using strh for each sample instead of packing it crashes in fiq_playback() (pcm-pp.o)
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13:41:36leftrightI understand, but rockbox's functionality is slowly being eroded by "bug creep", as it is I dont use any of the exotic features due to bug's, I really just use default settings, and even basic functionality is becoming buggy, not good for rockbox's credibility
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13:44:33*amiconn wonders why leftright doesn't use the magics of TAB completion ;)
13:44:45DerPapstleftright: if you read the logs of the past 2 month you'll notice that the core devs are aware of the various playback bugs and that they try to fix them. A lot have been fixed already. However, some bugfixed make new bugs appear.
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13:45:36leftrightamiconn; because sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't
13:47:20DerPapstpixelma: just a year? ;-)
13:47:31pixelmathe tab completion works only with one character, e.g. for my nick you can only type "p" and then "tab" a few times through the list of nicks starting with "p"
13:48:02pixelmaDerPapst: maybe, if I don't sleep and eat etc. ;)
13:48:20DerPapsthehe :-)
13:48:20leftrightyes, true, but then I find it quicker to type the name, but today I'm dyslexic :-)
13:49:13DerPapsttabcompletition works for several characters for me. e.g. pi<tab>
13:49:20pixelmaI meant the tab completion in the webclient
13:49:51*DerPapst loves tabcompletition, esp. for nicks like lambdacalulus37
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13:50:06DerPapstwell, nvm then
13:50:12pixelmathat wouldn't have happened if he was around :P
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13:51:42leftrightthanks for work you put in, I just had to voice my opinion, even if it is ignored by the "managers" of this project
13:52:02*amiconn agrees with leftright
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13:52:22amiconnUnfortunately the swcodec playback engine is something I can't really help with
13:52:56Nico_Plinuxstb: thanks for the cleanup on the backdrop defines... but what's the diff between HAVE_LCD_REMOTE and HAVE_REMOTE_LCD?
13:53:38amiconnIf you want to use rockbox *and* want stable playback, a hwcodec target is still the only option
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13:53:58amiconnNico_P: The former is wrong, and the latter is correct
13:54:13amiconnHAVE_LCD_REMOTE simply doesn't exist
13:54:41leftrightamiconn, I know that some of you put in really good work in your respective fields, and there are several of you that put in good hours here, and I do appreciate that, but the "mangers" of this project are absent with the result that bug creep is affecting basic functionality of rockbox
13:55:23amiconnThere are no managers in that sense, as rockbox is a community project
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13:55:54Buschelpreglow: i can only reproduce the crash when using crossfade and skipping a lot. if the problem might be that the *dst pointer is unaligned -> pcmbuf_request_buffer() might return the pointer unaligned, correct?
13:56:06Nico_Pleftright: I'm one of the people working on the playback engine. I know about the track skipping bugs, but currently I have no idea why they appear. some help reproducing them would be warmly welcomed
13:56:08DerPapstas i said, it is known that there are problems and the persons familiar with this part of the code are working on fixing things.
13:56:13Nico_Pwhile being shouted at isn't
13:56:43preglowBuschel: well, sounds logical
13:57:10amiconnWhy would a sample pointer ever become unaligned?
13:57:12Buschelpreglow: who is into this stuff?
13:57:20preglowNico_P, jhMikeS
13:57:20preglowi believe
13:57:44Nico_Ppondlife helps too
13:58:07Nico_Pand lostlogic
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13:59:34leftrightNico_P; basically, I start playback from stop by inserting a album (filetree), I then add two or three more albums, it then plays the first song and when changing tracks it might play the same song again or it will play the first song again after three songs have played
13:59:51Nico_Pleftright: on what target?
13:59:56leftrightH140, Random folder advance is on
14:00:00linuxstbleftright: Does it happen if you don't add a second or third album?
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14:00:24Nico_Pand what about random folder advance? is it needed for the bug to appear?
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14:00:37leftrightthat i haven't tried yet
14:00:39Nico_Palso, does someone know which targets this bug has appeared on? all SWCODEC?
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14:01:04DerPapstI had id about 1,5 months ago on my 5.5G as well.
14:01:12DerPapstrepeating tracks that is.
14:01:32Nico_Pok then I'll be able to repro if I'm lucky... I think it only happened to me once
14:01:39Nico_Pwhat about the sim?
14:02:01DerPapstbut i haven't used rockbox longer then 15 minutes since then, so i don't know if it has been fixed yet.
14:02:14pixelmaseen it on my Sansa and I believe in the sim too
14:02:24DerPapsti noticed that while a 5hour car trip.
14:02:48 Part pixelma
14:03:40*DerPapst only has a hand full of songs for the sim, so he wouldn't notice any repeats.
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14:05:06Nico_Pleftright: I'd like to know which bugss you find most annoying currently? are there others apart from that one (FS #8513, right?) ?
14:05:34*Nico_P will be back in a few minutes
14:07:08leftrightNico_P; #8513 is to me the most annoying as it affects basic functionality of the principal feature of a music playback device
14:09:04leftrightits like having a tv set that changes channels on its own, said tv is of no use
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14:14:46BigBambiHow much did you pay for the TV compared to Rockbox?
14:15:36leftrightthats not the pint here
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14:15:50BigBambiIt is if you want to compare to a TV
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14:16:10BigBambiWe all find the playback bugs annoying, but having such a bad attitude won't help
14:17:46XavierGrleftright: I understand your furstration but unfortunately you can't do much about it.
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14:18:14BigBambiI understand the frustration too, but coming in like that is not going to induce people to donate more of their spare time
14:18:24XavierGrleftright: Stress testing can be a big help and if you ever find a way to reproduce the said problem report it immediately
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14:20:42XavierGrBigBambi: yes I agree "bitching" can't help (no offense) :P
14:21:07BigBambiXavierGr: Yeah, it is only likely to make people think "Sod you then" in my opinion
14:21:53*XavierGr just learnt a new word :)
14:22:07XavierGryeah never heard that one before
14:22:15BigBambiIt's a British term
14:26:34*Nico_P was a bit annoyed but admits leftright makes a valid point
14:26:40BigBambiExactly so
14:27:22BigBambiThe point is valid, but the attitude was counter-productive
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14:29:37Nico_Pleftright: have you been able to verify the link with the rebuffering? and does it also happen on manual skips?
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14:34:24leftrightNico_P; the HDD light doesn't illuminate prior of post this problem, so i guess that it wasn't buffering at the time, and after skipping past the repeated file it plays fine for a while again
14:36:38leftrightI really respect what you guys do here, but I worry that rockbox is becoming rudderless, and loosing direction
14:36:51BigBambiIt is a community project
14:37:03BigBambiYou cannot force people to work on things they do not want to
14:39:19*amiconn scratches head
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15:25:53rasherBagder: how do you build sources now? I see release has been removed completely.
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15:27:57KhalsaGood Show Chaps. Rockbox is farking awesome. You devs rock. Keep up the good work. You guys are awesome.
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15:34:59*domonok1 wonders how that "video streaming plugin" (gsoc application to rockbox) should work... seems strange..
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15:37:55*domonok1 also wonders what rfid freight tracking has to do with rockbox.. ( another gsoc application).. ? :-/
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15:52:27Nico_Pdomonok1: there's no way to distinguish between 30G and 60/80G videos in rbutil?
15:53:11domonok1Nico_P: you have to choose the 60Gb yourself, it will both as 30GB..
15:53:51domonok1because ipodpatcher also cant distinguish, and the usbids are also the same..
15:54:30domonok1so the only way would be to somehow ask for the disksize, and thats difficult to do on 3 different targets :-)
15:55:48Nico_Pyeah, I was a bit surprised but then I remembered it wasn't really possibke
15:56:33Nico_Pdomonok1: btw, I agree with you on the new GSoC proposals... there's hardly relevant to rockbox
15:57:53Nico_PI hope we're going to get some better ones
15:58:14domonok1me hopes too
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15:58:56HorschtIf only I were able to code...
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16:05:18DerPapstdomonok1: not sure but i remember that the firmware partitions size is different on the 30GB and 60/80GB iPods. And since ipodpatcher can read/parse the partition table i think it should be possible that ipodpatcher can "guess" the RAM size.
16:06:50DerPapstthough it isn't 100% reliable, since apple sold refurbed iPods with 32MB ram and large harddrives.
16:09:17DerPapsthhmmm... interesting gsoc apps.
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16:09:35Horschtwhere are they?
16:10:12Nico_PDerPapst: "interesting" isn't the word that comes to my mind
16:11:05 Quit Zarggg_ ()
16:11:14Nico_PDerPapst: you're a potential mentor?
16:11:18DerPapstheh.. there was a tad sarcasm included in this statement ;-)
16:11:46Horschtwhere can I have a look at the apps?
16:11:47DerPapstoh no... i'm more thinking of being a student
16:11:57DerPapstyou can't yet.
16:12:09Horschtawww.. (
16:13:18DerPapstiirc there are now 4 apps. THe usabillity study, the Theme editor (Rincewinds app) and the 2 domonok1 mentioned.
16:14:00domonok1and only one usefull app... :-/
16:14:27Horschttheme editor I assume
16:14:32DerPapstI hope the 2 guys with the rm codec and the LLVM thingy apply too.
16:15:08Horschtat least theme editor sounds like the only rockbox related task
16:15:43DerPapstbut videostreaming sounds fun too.
16:15:53*DerPapst buys a wifi dongle for his ipod
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16:19:45*DerPapst should finish his gsoc application proposal (the "Benefit to the Rockbox project" part is hard for not so important game plugin).
16:21:48 Quit kushal_12_27_200 ("This computer has gone to sleep")
16:22:57Horschtwhat does a usability study have to do with coding btw?
16:23:21RincewindDerPapst: If there aren't enough other applications then I think your proposal would be accepted despite a weak importance
16:23:36DerPapstchanging keymaps and menus after finishing the study.
16:23:57*DerPapst hopes so too :-P
16:24:26Horschtah, so the study would also involve actualy coding the proposed changes
16:24:33Rincewindchanging keymaps and menus, because a student wants it? before that hell freezes over...
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16:25:33Rincewindwell, it can can happen with good comunication and politics. I guess this makes usability study a hard project then.
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16:27:50DerPapstyeah. but the coding isn't such a big bussiness then anymore. Rearranging the menus and changing keymaps can be done in probably less then 2 days.
16:29:21Rincewinddesigning a new ui based on viewports would take a little longer
16:30:21DerPapstwell the menus (aka list code/appearance) don't have to be changed. they're intuitive enough.
16:30:42DerPapstand the recording screen and fm screen need a rewrite anyways.
16:31:39Horschtwell, the order of the main menu could be re-aranged
16:31:53Horschtmoves "settings" further down
16:32:11*Rincewind can conduct his own usebility study next week because he is buying sansa c240 for his friends
16:32:16DerPapstyes. but that is easy.
16:32:36DerPapstand there is already a new proposal on the wiki
16:33:02Horschtoooh, where?
16:33:34*DerPapst looks
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16:35:53DerPapsthi gevaerts :-)
16:36:38*gevaerts just skimmed over the two new gsoc proposals, and wonders if those people actually even searched for rockbox on the web at all
16:36:59gevaertsHi DerPapst! How's your application coming along ? :)
16:37:26DerPapsti'm at the "Benefit to the Rockbox project" part.
16:37:39DerPapst...and having a hard time
16:38:04gevaertsTry 'helping rockbox get enough gsoc projects' ;)
16:38:25BigBambiI would have thought that was fairly essential, and one of the things you would know before proposing it?
16:38:42BigBambiIf it doesn't benefit rockbox...
16:39:07DerPapstBigBambi: Yet another game isn't very important for rockbox...
16:39:12gevaertsWell, games attract users
16:39:23BigBambiDerPapst: Ah, a game
16:39:23DerPapstthis is actually the way i'm going
16:39:34Horscht"the plugin system in rockbox is a very handy and popular feature of rockbox. Addiontaly <insert game here> is a very popular game and will probably increase rockbox' popularity!"
16:40:10Horschtthis sentence is GPL
16:40:20gevaerts"This game will attract more users, so people like BigBambi will be even busier keeping the forums clean" :)
16:40:25*DerPapst Ctrl+C's and Ctrl+P's
16:40:28BigBambiIs it a competition to use the word popular (and variations) as many times as possible in the smallest number of words :)
16:40:39HorschtCTRL+P ?
16:40:45BigBambigevaerts: hehe :)
16:40:55Horschtah, thought so
16:41:21*DerPapst doesn'T want to print the entire log...
16:42:08*gevaerts thinks that the "Benefit to the Rockbox project" part is probably mostly needed to see if the applicant knows what rockbox is, in an indirect way
16:42:35HorschtI change the license of my sentence from GPL to WTFPL
16:42:41DerPapsti know what rockbox is about. may i skip that part? ;-)
16:43:21DerPapstawww :-(
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16:44:25DerPapstActually this sections starts with "I know that rockbox is all about music playback [...]"
16:45:45Horschtyay for /notic
16:47:26gevaertsDerPapst: you're lying! You _do_ know that rockbox is mostly about pointless discussions on irc !
16:48:40DerPapsttrue indeed.. how could i forget.
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16:49:32gevaertsBut maybe you are smart in accidentally forgetting that part in yout application ;)
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16:51:27Horschtyay, my client crashed
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16:57:05*gevaerts thinks that "an RFID system for rockbox player tracking" would be an interesting project that could benefit some developers
16:58:08*BigBambi gets his tin hat
16:58:14Horscht"oh, crap, where the hell in this mess is my player?"
16:58:44HorschtDerPapst, what game are you inteding to port in the GSOC anyways?
17:01:15gevaertsHorscht: IIRC it's Battleships, with AI
17:02:08Horschtyay, battleship
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17:03:03*DerPapst doesn't see how RFIDs could benefit rockbox.
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17:06:56gevaertsDerPapst: are you planning on writing this from scratch, or will you reuse code from gbatnav or kbattleship (or another one that I don't know) ?
17:07:15DerPapstwrite it from scratch.
17:07:28Rincewindthe radio frequency beams improve the sound of mp3s with very high bitrates!
17:07:31DerPapsti didn't even know this 2 programs exists
17:07:39*gevaerts likes the idea of google paying 5000 USD to let him play battleships :)
17:09:49toffe82too bad there is not a gsoh (google summer of hardware) :)
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17:10:40*DerPapst only know 2 people that might be attracted to gsoh... ;-)
17:10:49DerPapstincluding you toffe82 :-)
17:11:21gevaertsDerPapst: I found them by 'apt-cache search battleship'
17:12:10*gevaerts would expect more than two people for gsoh. No idea how many of them are students...
17:13:02*Rincewind would like a vhdl fpga project for summer of code
17:13:30*gevaerts waits for a theme editor in vhdl :)
17:14:01*bertrik has only a vague idea what gsoh stands for and doubts if it is rockbox related
17:14:09Buschelpreglow: do you know of anyone else who could reproduce the crossfade-issue (and can build a software)?
17:14:43DerPapstgbatnav seems to be waays to heavy for a port... and kbattleship seems similar, except my version won't have that pretty graphics probably.
17:15:06DerPapstbertrik: google summer of hardware.
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17:16:52gevaertsDerPapst: I didn't really look at them, but knowing what names starting with g or k usually imply, you are probably right
17:16:53bertrikBuschel: I have a sansa e260, I can build the software and won't mind spending 1 or 2 hours trying to reproduce a problem
17:18:29Buschelbetrik: great! can you please apply the following patch ->
17:19:01bertrikif that's a solution to a problem, I better reproduce the problem first
17:19:12Buschelbetrik: enable crossfade and skip between songs. just check whether there is either any crash or noise
17:19:44Buschelbetrik: i have it each dozen track changes or so (without the patch)
17:20:00bertrikok, I'll revert to standard settings and enable cross-fade
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17:31:53Davide-NYCJdGordon_: ping
17:32:18Davide-NYCjhMikeS: ping
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17:34:06toffe82Davide-NYC: hello
17:34:23bertrikBuschel: so far I skipped through about 30 songs back and forth I've not seen any crashes or heard any glitches
17:34:41bertrikI'm seeing some other weirdness but I'm not sure it's related to cross-fade
17:34:49Buschelhmm, bad.
17:37:59Buscheli've posted it to flyspray. hopefully somebody of the users who have this failure can check it.
17:38:08Buschelbetrik: thanks for your time! :)
17:38:39bertrikok, no problem. What is the FS#? If I do find the problem, I'll add it to the tracker.
17:41:16bertrikI did see very weird (negative) values in the real and usefl bars in the buffering thread debug screen
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17:47:48TaylorKillianhello everybody
17:48:13gevaertsHi TaylorKillian! Are you still considering a gsoc proect ?
17:48:56TaylorKillianstill trying to find out exactly what i need to do for the arm emulator ;)
17:49:04ceclinhow many applications have been submitted so far?
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17:49:25gevaertsGreat! Always good to have someone really look into a project before applying
17:50:32Nico_Pceclin: we have 5 so far
17:51:14gevaertsceclin: five, I would say that only one or two are any use (the others are either bad or not rockbox related)
17:51:20TaylorKillianIs Linus Feltzing on this channel?
17:51:41gevaertsHis nick is LinusN. He seems not to be here right now
17:51:51ceclinI'm working on my proposal right now, I hope to have it in later on in the day.
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17:52:25TaylorKilliangevaerts: Alright thanks, I think he'll be able to help me out the most.
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17:53:17Nico_Pbertrik: the negative values in the buffering screen aren't too worrying I think...
17:53:33kugelNico_P: why can't everyone see those applications?
17:53:41DerPapstNico_P: what is the 5th?
17:53:46Nico_Pkugel: they're visible to mentors only
17:54:03Nico_PDerPapst: another usability study proposal
17:54:18kugelDerPapst: You seem to know about the applications, are you a mentor?
17:54:45DerPapstnope... just a good reader :-P
17:54:47kugel("DerPapst: iirc there are now 4 apps. THe usabillity study, the Theme editor (Rincewinds app) and the 2 domonok1 mentioned.")
17:54:57linuxstb_ceclin: What have you decided to go for? RealAudio or game codecs?
17:54:59kugelah ok
17:55:26kugellinuxstb_: how do you like my latest version of customlist? :)
17:55:34DerPapstceclin: or maybe both? ;-)
17:55:51gevaertsTaylorKillian: If I remember correctly, saratoga is the one who put the ARM emulator on the possible project list, so you might also talk to him.
17:56:00*BigBambi is a big fan of more codecs
17:56:06linuxstb_kugel: Try setting a list viewport starting at 0,0 when the statusbar is enabled...
17:56:21ceclinI figured I'd do RealAudio as implementing game codecs wouldn't take all 3 months. Though in my proposal I said id do both if theres time
17:56:27kugellinuxstb_: the list gets moved down
17:56:31kugelat least it should
17:56:35linuxstb_kugel: Try it...
17:56:38TaylorKilliangevaerts: cool, I'll try to contact him. thanks
17:56:39DerPapstceclin: yay!
17:56:39*Horscht is also a big fan of more codecs
17:56:42BigBambiceclin: cool
17:57:00Horschtnot for using them, but for the sake of knowing to be able to use them
17:57:03*gevaerts wants more codecs on rockbox, but not in general
17:57:17DerPapstC2H5OH: nice nick...
17:57:23bertrikwhat codecs would be useful for rockbox?
17:57:24C2H5OHthanks :-)
17:57:37BigBambibertrik: Any and all? :P
17:57:40gevaertsbertrik: .au ?
17:57:41Nico_Pwhat molecule is that?
17:57:43*DerPapst dreams of beer...
17:57:49bertrikethanol i guess
17:57:49C2H5OHI was wondering if it's possible to *replace* the ipod nano (1st gen) firmware by the rockbox firmware
17:57:52BigBambiNico_P: ethanol
17:57:55*domonok1 thinks the student with the new usability application, didnt really read our website.. :-)
17:58:01C2H5OHyes, it's ethanol
17:58:06kugellinuxstb_: doh!
17:58:14 Join PaulJam__ [0] (
17:58:25BigBambiDerPapst: the OH functional group is an alcohol group - ethanol is just one of many :)
17:58:33kugellinuxstb_: did you know about that or was that just a guess? if yes, why didn't you comment in the fs tast
17:58:44HorschtC2H5OH, if you install the rockbox boot loader, rockbox will boot by default
17:58:51DerPapstI know :-P I wan't sure if everyone here knows what ethanol is ;-)
17:58:59C2H5OHHorscht: yeah, but I still have around 90 megs wasted
17:59:11C2H5OH90 megs can hold some more mp3's
17:59:16BigBambiC2H5OH: Yes, I believe there is a fucntion of ipodpatcher that will replace it altogether
17:59:17bertrikgevaerts: oh I thought .au was very similar to wav and hardly needs a codec, but I'll look it up
17:59:23jhMikeSDavide-NYC: gnip
17:59:35DerPapstC2H5OH: yes you can. with a bit fdisk and dd magic.
17:59:37C2H5OHBigBambi: nice, so I just have to follow the docs
17:59:54BigBambiC2H5OH: try running ipodpatcher to give you its help output
17:59:55linuxstb_kugel: Because you're here, so I thought I would let you know before I give you all my feedback on flyspray.... That was just the first viewport I tested, and it didn't work....
17:59:56Horschtbut... won't that break the ipod?
18:00:04gevaertsbertrik: very probably. I think it's just a different header mostly
18:00:13DerPapstBigBambi: but ipotpatcher can't shrink the firmware patition
18:00:15HorschtI mean, will he still be able to transfer files (go into disk mode)?
18:00:18BigBambiHorscht: It doesn't remove the flash bootloader
18:00:25BigBambiDerPapst: Yes, that is true
18:00:41Horschti see
18:00:49C2H5OHHorscht: the disk mode is not "volatile"
18:00:58Nico_PjhMikeS: hi! saw your messages in the log...I'm not very familiar with boosting. do trigger_cpu_boost and cancel_cpu_boost need to be used symetrically?
18:01:01BigBambiBut I *believe* (note lack of surety) that you can use ipodpatcher to replace it then shrink the partition
18:01:06C2H5OHHorscht: I don't know if any of you have been through it
18:01:06*BigBambi looks at linuxstb
18:01:15DerPapstHorscht: the recommended way to brick is with a hammer to (poorly) quote GodEater. ;-)
18:01:19C2H5OHbut when the Ipod is out of battery and you don't charge it for a week or so
18:01:22*linuxstb_ looks back at BigBambi
18:01:24C2H5OHyou have to restore the firmware via iTunes
18:01:38C2H5OHas I don't have windows (and virtualbox OSE does not support USB)
18:01:46jhMikeSNico_P: no, boost is just "set a boost flag" and cancel is just "cancel the boost flag"
18:01:49HorschtDerPapst, a sledge hammer?
18:01:49BigBambilinuxstb_: Am I correct about completely replacing the iPod firmware then reclaiming some of the firmware partition space?
18:01:53C2H5OHI'm just tired of using the work pc
18:02:09Nico_PjhMikeS: and the flag is specific to the caller thread,
18:02:10linuxstb_BigBambi: Yes - I would interrupt you otherwise ;)
18:02:13kugellinuxstb_: but not defining the viewport (which results in 0,0,.. too) doesn't have this problem :P
18:02:14BigBambiCool :)
18:02:15jhMikeSNico_P: yes
18:02:30gevaertsC2H5OH: I think the emergency disk mode always works, including when the battery is completely empty
18:02:38C2H5OHgevaerts: I know
18:02:47Nico_PjhMikeS: ok so then it does make sense to only cancel the flag when not filling
18:02:54Nico_PI'll commit the change
18:02:57DerPapstC2H5OH: i've never heard that someone had to restore the ipod just because the battery was drained.
18:03:04linuxstb_kugel: I haven't looked at your code very much - I just tried compiling and testing it. It seems to work well apart from that issue.
18:03:14C2H5OHDerPapst: well, it happens
18:03:15gevaertsSo why would you need to restore with itunes ?
18:03:25C2H5OHgevaerts: I don't really know
18:03:27kugellinuxstb_: thatnks for spotting
18:03:29jhMikeSNico_P: BTW, I'm curious about the effect of this patch (which cuts 5 seconds off my H10 buffering time).">
18:03:39DerPapstC2H5OH: you could also manually restore if you don't have access to itunes.
18:03:41C2H5OHthe moral of the story for me is: as a Unix user, never again buy iCrap
18:03:51jhMikeSNico_P: exactly.
18:03:54linuxstb_C2H5OH: Have you already reduced the size of your firmware partition
18:03:58Nico_PjhMikeS: ok I'll test it
18:04:00C2H5OHlinuxstb_: no
18:04:08C2H5OHI have a backup of everything
18:04:22C2H5OHI backed up the firmware with dd
18:04:22jhMikeSNico_P: on 5g of course :)
18:04:28Nico_Pof course :)
18:04:54linuxstb_C2H5OH: No-one else has reported needing to restore with itunes on a weekly basis... Why do you need to do that?
18:05:06C2H5OHlinuxstb_: is not on a weekly basis
18:05:11C2H5OHsometimes I stop using it
18:05:15C2H5OHwith low battery
18:05:22C2H5OHit seems that the ipod never turns of completely
18:05:23*linuxstb_ wonders if scorche or scorche|sh is working on the new themes site
18:05:33 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:05:35C2H5OHand the battery keeps discharging
18:05:41jhMikeSNico_P: if it's in the right direction, try subtracting more from PRIORITY_BUFFERING
18:05:51Nico_Pwill do
18:06:05DerPapstC2H5OH: though you should be able to reboot it into diskmode and charge it from there
18:06:12C2H5OHDerPapst: I know
18:06:22C2H5OHDerPapst: but it doesn't reproduce music
18:06:36Nico_PjhMikeS: you said a + in the OS stacks screen indicates boosting?
18:06:43jhMikeSNico_P: yes
18:06:59linuxstb_C2H5OH: So after your battery has recharged, you're saying Rockbox will start, but won't play music any more?
18:07:04DerPapstC2H5OH: Do you have a USB or a firewire wallcharger?
18:07:25C2H5OHDerPapst: no
18:07:33kugellinuxstb_: "=-" instead of "-=" owns me ;;
18:07:37C2H5OHlinuxstb_: I want to replace the ipod firmware with rockbox
18:07:55C2H5OHanyway, my ipod is wasted right now, I can play with it as I want
18:08:53*jhMikeS isn't sure the point anymore in having HAVE_SCHEDULER_BOOSTCTRL
18:08:56DerPapstC2H5OH: try to replace the OF with rockbox and try to shrink the firmware partition afterwards. That might work.
18:09:19BuschelNico_P: you are familiar with crossfading?
18:09:27Nico_PBuschel: not at all
18:09:29 Nick PaulJam__ is now known as PaulJam (
18:09:38Buschelhmm, whom to ask?
18:09:39C2H5OHDerPapst: so the ipodpatcher installs the rockbox firmware in the same partition as the apple firmware?
18:09:51BigBambiNo, the rockbox bootloader
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18:10:08Nico_PjhMikeS: what does it do?
18:10:23C2H5OHBigBambi: ok, and the firmware is in the data partition, right?
18:10:35C2H5OHthat's why it's so easy to upgrade, I guess
18:10:37Nico_PjhMikeS: is a boosted thread scheduled differently than a nonboosted one?
18:10:49BigBambiIIUC, ipodpatcher inserts the Rockbox bootloader so that it is called by the Apple flash bootloader, and then loads either Rockbox from the data partition, or the Apple firmware from the firmware partition
18:11:13DerPapstBigBambi: you don't have to install the bootloader if you don't plan to use the OF at all.
18:11:30DerPapstC2H5OH: ./ipodpatcher -wf rockbox.ipod should do the trick
18:11:33BigBambiDerPapst: I'm just talking about normally
18:11:43DerPapstah.. nvm then ;-)
18:12:48DerPapstC2H5OH: then drop .rockbox on the fat partiton and test if it is working.
18:14:12jhMikeSNico_P: no, just says that the tread wants CPUFREQ_MAX in effect
18:14:55Nico_Pok, so it's not much use to boost the audio thread when it's loading tracks (since the buffering thread is already boosted at that time)?
18:15:05jhMikeSHAVE_SCHEDULER_BOOSTCTRL is just a #define to exclude per-thread boosting (which used to have an automatic element)
18:15:26Nico_Pand currently it's defined?
18:15:40 Quit PaulJam_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:15:52jhMikeSNico_P: yes it is. a thread should just call that whenever what it's doing is best run a max cpu
18:16:19Nico_Pthen I think I'll add a call in audio_fill_file_buffer
18:16:48bertrikthe .au format doesn't look that complicated
18:17:18jhMikeSmaking sure audio has one prevents an unboost if it's awhile before buffering gets another handle
18:20:12Nico_Phmm I got a brief audio skip
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18:21:18 Quit Pio (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:21:19Nico_P(after adding the trigger_cpu_boost call to audio_fill_file_buffer)
18:21:20 Join Pio__ [0] (n=sean@
18:21:53jhMikeSNico_P: but it only untriggers if buffering is done, right?
18:22:19Nico_Pit untriggers in audio once all tracks that can be added have been added
18:22:27Nico_Pand in buffering once buffering is complete
18:22:56 Quit K4rP4D (Remote closed the connection)
18:23:09 Quit ol_schoola ()
18:23:10jhMikeSthere should only be two set_cpu_frequency calls during buffering then
18:23:32Nico_Pand that's not good?
18:23:38 Join ccd [0] (i=ccd@
18:23:42ccdhi all!
18:24:07 Quit Nevtus ("Gone")
18:24:07jhMikeSanother thread becoming boosted should only increment the boost counter so no call to set_cpu_frequency.
18:24:31ccddo u know about hitachi HDD ?
18:25:02jhMikeSonly one to raise it when the first thread boosts and one to lower it when all threads go idle (this is tracked internally)
18:25:04Nico_Paudio and buffering become boosted at roughly the same time... the boost in audio shouldn't last very long whereas the one in buffering lasts as long as the buffering
18:25:32Nico_PI didn't have the skip again... I'm not even sure it wasn't in my track
18:25:33 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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18:27:31*Nico_P commits
18:28:39kugellinuxstb_: should be fixed now
18:28:43Nico_PjhMikeS: I'll test your patch now
18:29:10jhMikeSNico_P: thanks
18:29:34*gevaerts has enabled crossfade on his ipod to try to reproduce the bug, and really doesn't understand why people want this feature
18:29:53*jhMikeS wants to nuke that feature in the worst way
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18:31:22Nico_PjhMikeS: it's worse with the patch
18:31:58jhMikeSworse than the hack or worse than previous to the hack?
18:32:38Nico_Pworse than SVN (that's the hack I guess), and compared to before the hack I couldn't really say, it's roughly the same
18:33:13Nico_Pbuffering seems faster though (faster than before the hack)
18:33:40 Part ccd
18:35:01kugellinuxstb_: what would you suggest about the recalculation of the list at every redraw?
18:35:54kugelI think the best would be, to calculate this only upon settings load, and give the draw function the needed information
18:36:02jhMikeSsomething's really screwy with that port since it only speeds up my other targets quite noticeably with absolutely no UI cost.
18:36:08 Join nikosapi [0] (
18:36:34Davide-NYCjhMikeS: sorry, was AFK, wondering if the WRS code separation was being considered at all?
18:37:14nikosapihello, is there a simple way to add a shutdown option to the main menu? (I'm using the latest 5.5G 64MB ram iPod build)
18:37:37jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I think it's wanted in order to be able to personalize the rec screen
18:38:02linuxstb_nikosapi: Do you compile your own Rockbox build? That's the only way to change the menus.
18:38:18Davide-NYCI thought it was wandted (by jdgordon) just to rewrite the WRS, no necesarily make it customizable IIUC
18:38:32nikosapilinuxstb_: ah, I saw that patch on the bug tracker
18:38:53nikosapilinuxstb_: I guess I have no choice but to build it myself...
18:39:01BigBambinikosapi: A patch changes the source code, after which you compile
18:39:02Davide-NYCActually, I understand that the WRS rewrite is on hold until the code gets separated.
18:39:15linuxstb_kugel: I don't know the answer (at the moment...)
18:39:16jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I thought some customizeable aspect was the goal :\ silly me.
18:39:29nikosapiBigBambi: Yep
18:39:48 Quit stripwax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:40:07Davide-NYCjhMikeS: only one or two users asked for customization and I think the consesus is that icustomization is overkill for the WRS.
18:40:17linuxstb_nikosapi: Out of curiousity, why would you want that menu item? Would it be faster to access than just holding the PLAY button?
18:40:25*jhMikeS just finds himself obsessing now over what's wrong on 5g
18:40:51BigBambijhMikeS: Damn you! Get obsessed with the gigabeast instead :)
18:41:48nikosapilinuxstb_: I use the bookmarking feature, so I takes a good 6 seconds of holding down play/pause for it to finally turn off. I'd rather just click shutdown and have it make the bookmark and turn itself off
18:42:03*jhMikeS detests that locking hack and knows it's not right and indicates some deeper issue
18:42:40linuxstb_nikosapi: 6 seconds until you see the "shutting down" message, or 6 seconds until it's actually off?
18:42:56nikosapilinuxstb_: Let me time it :)
18:44:25jhMikeSBigBambi: No worry. It might be good to put that one down and concentrate on that. Maybe the answer will reveal itself in an unrelated activity (which happens alot).
18:45:30nikosapilinuxstb_: yup, exactly 6 seconds till the "Shutting Down" appears
18:45:41nikosapiwhich makes perfect sense
18:45:58nikosapihold 3 secs for bookmark and another 3 sec to shut down
18:46:19BigBambinikosapi: The patch is your only choice (if it still applies) - building isn't too hard though if you wanted to
18:46:31BigBambinikosapi: What is the flyspray number for the patch?
18:48:02kugellinuxstb_: If it matters, I can't say that list browsing is slower on my e200. But I agree anyway, that it should be changed
18:48:06 Quit TaylorKillian (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:49:35linuxstb_kugel: It just seems the wrong place (logically). But I know it's like that in SVN, not something you've added.
18:49:37*jhMikeS notices that the browser doesn't show up on now S unless a key (just tried the menu key) is being held and hold is off (statusbar is visible). It was ok at last check.
18:52:24bertrikhmmm, crossfade gets effectively disabled when enabling/disabling the EQ during playback
18:56:28bertrikalso the pcm buffer in the buffering debug screen stays at about 15% of max instead of the usual 80% (or so)
18:56:45nikosapiBigBambi: the patch still seems to apply properly
18:57:41BigBambinikosapi: Ah cool. I don't/won't use it myself, but hopefully it'll do what you want
19:03:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:04:08 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
19:04:19 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
19:06:44BigBambijhMikeS: I can't see anything other than the status bar no matter what I hold
19:07:14linuxstb_Sounds like it could be a lists/viewports issue...
19:07:49BigBambiI'll try to track it down
19:08:00 Join Horschti [0] (
19:08:06BigBambiShame the lack of UMS makes transferring builds such a pain in the arse
19:08:21*Buschel seems to have FS #8651 solved now
19:08:44 Quit Horscht (Nick collision from services.)
19:09:03jhMikeSBigBambi: With hold off and the window button held it comes up every time for me.
19:09:20BigBambijhMikeS: Trying that, but nothing
19:10:20BigBambimake -j3 && make tar
19:10:25BigBambioops :)
19:11:00Nico_Pyeah I didn't get anything either... how long do you have to press menu before it appears?
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19:22:35C2H5OHbrilliant, so ipodpatcher refuses to work if there is no firmware in the ipod
19:24:04linuxstb_C2H5OH: What do you mean by "no firmware" ? What did you do to it?
19:24:51C2H5OHI was playing :-P
19:24:52DerPapsti guess the apple ascii stop sign is broken
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19:28:50C2H5OHlinuxstb_: I guess there is no way to "force" writing to a device, right?
19:29:11DerPapstno. unless you implement it :-P
19:29:41linuxstb_C2H5OH: Yes, restore your ipod to a known working state...
19:30:21 Join lee-qid [0] (
19:30:37DerPapstor use dd and scramble (in rockbox svn repo) ;-)
19:31:48 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
19:32:13DerPapstcan scramble add a firmware partition layout to *.ipod files?
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19:33:57jhMikeSNico_P: I have hold off and the menu key held until the browser shows up
19:34:11 Quit Pio__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:35:16Bagderrasher: I intend to commit my new source tarball script to show
19:35:52*BigBambi has so far narrowed it down to r16400 works and r16500 doesn't
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19:37:53Bagderoh we're 5 gsoc applications now
19:38:03Bagderwe're at even
19:38:17gevaertsBagder: read them before you're too happy ;)
19:38:33Bagderjust the names is enough to not make me too thrilled
19:39:02rasherBagder: sounds great, currently my sims page has old source because I used the release script
19:40:06Bagder for now
19:40:30*gevaerts rereads the latest usability proposal and finds 'I would not read any documentation on how to use the player beforehand' :)
19:41:37*DerPapst likes moo magic
19:41:58DerPapstgevaerts: hehe
19:42:31gevaertsDerPapst: make sure to put in your application that you did read the entire manual ;)
19:43:01*DerPapst fears he didn't read it entirely yet...
19:44:01*gevaerts thinks that DerPapst should not have admitted that :)
19:45:12*domonok1 thinks it fine not to read the manual, if you dont ask stupid questions already answerd in the manual.. :-)
19:46:20DerPapst... which i try to avoid... most of the time ;-)
19:47:17 Nick hd is now known as HellDragon (i=jd@unaffiliated/helldragon)
19:47:45gevaertsI think that someone should post a comment on that application with some questions, but I have no idea what questions...
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19:53:30Nico_PjhMikeS: holding the menu key with hold off doesn't make the menu appear here
19:53:40jhMikeSNico_P: I've noticed that the rockbox.tar file still shows up in the MTP file list even though its been deleted (I suppose because it's in its database file).
19:53:43Nico_Punless I have to hold it for a long time
19:54:00*BigBambi never gets it either
19:54:03jhMikeSno, just start hold while in the bootloader
19:54:20Nico_Pwith hold on ?
19:54:28Nico_Pah got it
19:54:29BigBambibut I'm getting close to what breaks it
19:54:31Nico_Pwith hold off
19:55:00BigBambir161433 works, r16435 doesn't
19:55:01Nico_PjhMikeS: any idea why this is needed
19:55:12jhMikeSnot yet
19:55:32Nico_PBagder: how many active developers would you say we currently have?
19:56:38Nico_PBigBambi, jhMikeS: could it have something to do with viewports?
19:56:59jhMikeSif 16435 broke it, it looks like a USB commit did it
19:57:33BigBambijhMikeS, Nico_P: r16434 works, r16435 doesn't
19:57:41*BigBambi breathes a sigh of relief
19:57:45jhMikeS16434 is a coldfire-only change
19:57:46BigBambiThat was tedious
19:58:22*BigBambi blames gevaerts! :P
19:58:41gevaertsNico_P: since the beginning of the year, there have been 838 commits by 43 committers
19:59:01*gevaerts blames BigBambi. Now just to find out for what ...
19:59:09BigBambihaha :)
19:59:51Nico_Pgevaerts: thanks... I'll round that up to ~50 :)
20:00:00Nico_PIIRC that's what ohloh says
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20:00:45gevaertsSounds plausible. Some of those have only one or two commits
20:02:01gevaertsBigBambi: I haven't followed, what is this 'it' that breaks in r16435 ?
20:02:28BigBambigevaerts: The display of anything but the status bar within Rockbox on the gigabeat S
20:02:52BigBambiSo don't worry basically :)
20:02:59C2H5OHbye guys, and thanks a lot :-)
20:03:01 Quit C2H5OH ("leaving")
20:04:10*gevaerts wonders how he managed to breat _that_ with this commit...
20:07:15jhMikeSNico_P: I'd at least like to commit this part of the last patch (but keep the lock hack for 5g)">
20:07:44 Quit Chipsaru (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:08:04Nico_PjhMikeS: do you want me to test it beforehand?
20:08:27Nico_PI'm pretty sure it'll be fine though, 32K always seemed to improve things
20:08:57jhMikeSit does increase the priority which won't behave exactly the same with that locking mechanism
20:09:16Horschtiso, any thoughts on why so many commits break buffering on 5g ipods only?
20:09:33BigBambigevaerts: unless you hold menu whilst it is booting that is, then it works fine still :)
20:10:36jhMikeSHorschti: not really, since everything goes exactly the opposite way on that one as to others
20:11:25Horschtiinverted bytes!
20:14:20 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (
20:15:46jhMikeSthe previous "buglet" in choosing threads had effects on every target as expected but this 5g is not of this world
20:22:07 Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!")
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20:23:00kugelCan someone reproduce this? I try to load on my e200 and the wps doesn't load properly
20:23:46kugelThe sim says: We open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/wps/Razor/'
20:23:47kugelERR: Failed to load image 21 - /.rockbox/wps/Razor/; even though the dir is there
20:24:39linuxstb_Which of the four WPSs are you trying?
20:24:52jhMikeSisn't that trying to load a directory as an image?
20:24:59linuxstb_jhMikeS: Yes
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20:25:22kugellinuxstb_: razor, the link should lead to that
20:25:50linuxstb_kugel: There are four zip files inside one zip... But the problem is lines with no image name - e.g. %xl|v||2|0|
20:26:03kugelI used the first zip
20:26:48kugelI can't spot such a tag
20:26:55jhMikeSthe "rockbox" in the lower right corner on H120 gets a cool effect from the line selector
20:27:18kugelalso, the whole wps seems to fail, the progressbar and the wps backdrop don't apply as well
20:27:53Nico_PjhMikeS: just tested your patch. buffering *seems* faster and responsiveness doesn't seem to be affected. I say commit :)
20:27:59linuxstb_kugel: Yes, images are now checked as part of the wps parsing, and the WPS rejected if they are not all loaded.
20:28:00kugellinuxstb_: Ahh yea, there's two of those lines
20:28:15kugelI don't get the default wps though
20:28:32jhMikeSit measures faster on other targets too (beyond what 32K alone will do) so I agree :)
20:29:28kugelIMO the default wps should be shown, it indicates an error best
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20:30:09jhMikeSof course I agree - it's my patch :P
20:30:21linuxstb_kugel: Are you testing with a clean SVN?
20:30:33kugellinuxstb_: Yep
20:31:11kugelnot even the customlist patch applied. I allways get a fresh source and compile the sim to double-check issues
20:33:54Nico_Pbtw, regarding adding an error message: I did it, but it gets masked by "settings loaded" when the WPS is loaded along with a theme
20:34:27mud-rbcan anyone give me a one sentence summary of the arguments to rb->set_int ? const char* unit seems to not do anything, and what do function and formatter do? (especially function)
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20:41:51maretardHello everyone!
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20:43:43*kugel this it would be great if the sim would show the coordinates when you hover over the window with the mouse
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20:44:18 Quit Zarggg ()
20:44:31leftrightI have been trying for hours now to get my wps to display my battery status, it used to work fine. I have included %wd, but it still wont show my battery status
20:44:56DerPapstkugel: save that for Rincewinds app :-)#
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20:45:38gevaertskugel: there are probably some tools that let you do that for any window
20:45:40Nico_Pkugel: I think JdGordon had a patch pretty much to that effect
20:45:45Alvinhi everyone!
20:46:04kugelNico_P: where is that? and why is it not in svn? :)
20:46:31Nico_PI don't know where it is, nor why it's not in svn
20:46:56Alvinuhh, just wondering, how does one "start" developing with Rockbox on a new platform?
20:47:44Alvinthankees :D
20:47:46 Quit brunocardoso ("Ex-Chat")
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20:47:56Alvinhaha, i tried to find a page like this before, but couldn't :D
20:48:11leftrightit'l show %bv but not %bl what has changed recently that it wont accept my old %bl ?, any ideas ?
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20:51:32disorganizerkugel: your latest patch works fine. now the only things missing to make the wps-world perfect is multiffont and (even more important) a viewportified statusbar :-)
20:52:01kugeldisorganizer: You mean costumizable statusbar?
20:52:13kugeldisorganizer: I doubt that the statusbar in a vp would change much
20:52:36 Quit leftright ("CGI:IRC")
20:52:39kugeldisorganizer: But thanks for testing, nice to hear that it works
20:52:44disorganizeri mean whatever linuxstb's hack did :-)
20:53:12*kugel didn't know that my patch helps the making the *wps*-world perfect :o
20:53:34disorganizerwell, theme-world in fact :-)
20:53:38Alvinoh jeez, this is bad. i can't even access the zune's system files at all. T_T
20:55:04disorganizerkugel: also a wps just looks bad if the nice graphical layout is broken by a fullscreen list imho :-) the graphical elements we use for wps's (aka areas of the screen) should be consitent throughout the ui.
20:55:33kugeltrue true
20:55:49kugelThat was my intention for the patch ;)
20:56:11 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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20:56:23disorganizernow the only thing left is to be able to display some elements of the wps (aka album/artist/battery/time/...) on all screens :-)
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20:56:40disorganizerwell, except multifont, and propably vertical peakmeters *g*
20:56:57*jhMikeS demands circular peakmeters
20:58:13*gevaerts thinks this limitation to two dimensions is disturbing ;)
20:59:05*jhMikeS feels cramped in fewer than 4 or 5 dimensions :p
20:59:35pickyA couple of days ago there was a talk about play list behavior. I.e. whether it should be cleared when playback is stopped and a song is inserted. And whether playback should be started then. Did it come to a conclusion? If not: couldn't we just have two settings for this? That would settle all the interests.
20:59:37 Quit Arathis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:00:57 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:01:56DerPapstiirc peakmeters are already 3D... x and y achses and of course the t achse :-P
21:02:29*gevaerts spots German words ;)
21:03:27*DerPapst runs
21:03:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:06:38pickyAnybody else who could tell me about playlist behaviour discussion? I see some nicks of very active users but they seem not to be aktive right now.
21:08:29scorchelinuxstb_: eh...i was sleeping, but i am now..
21:08:49DerPapstany irc op arround?
21:09:12DerPapstis that a yes?
21:09:24scorchethat depends on what you need
21:09:31DerPapsta unban
21:09:40DerPapstfrom Keripo
21:09:55DerPapsti guess logbot banne3d him a while ago
21:09:58 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
21:10:08linuxstbscorche: Is the plan to force all themes to use the same license, or is there going to be a selection of acceptable licenses?
21:10:15scorcheoh, thats nice
21:10:29scorchelinuxstb: the former...if they want another license, they email me
21:10:41Mode"#rockbox -bb *!*@* *!*62dcbd9e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/* " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
21:10:59 Join Keripo [0] (
21:11:08DerPapsthey Keripo :-)
21:11:15scorcheBagder: wow...that was a broad ban...
21:11:17*Keripo pokes in
21:11:20linuxstbscorche: Why? Either there's a choice, or there isn't...
21:11:50Keripolinuxstb: I finally got around to doing the ipodpatcher fix I talked to you about a long, long time ago
21:12:13linuxstbKeripo: I've forgotton what that was...
21:12:17scorchelinuxstb: alright...then we can force the former then...i was planning on using the email methos as an un-documented feature and if they did, i would lead them to a permissibe license like cc-by-sa anyway
21:13:01linuxstbscorche: Which license has been chosen?
21:13:26Keripolinuxstb: It was originally just "fix all the error levels so that success actually returned 0 and failure actually returned 1" but then I just redid the entire main.c and redid the formatting, etc.
21:13:54rasherscorche: 3.0?
21:13:58linuxstbscorche: OK. I just noticed some themes use a non-commercial version of the CC.
21:14:10scorchelinuxstb: yeah...not a fan of that
21:15:00linuxstbWhat's the submission process going to be? Is it going to be fully automatic, or some manual processing?
21:15:27Keripolinuxstb: should I just add the patch to the flyspray or is there anyone in particular who I should talk to?
21:16:04scorchesome manual so far...there will be plenty of improvements along the way including broken filters, automatic things, etc...there will be a "feature request/to-do" list on the wiki page
21:16:08 Quit picky ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
21:16:17linuxstbKeripo: Yes, please add it to flyspray.
21:18:52 Join jerl92 [0] (
21:19:03linuxstbscorche: Is Rockbox's real-name policy being applied?
21:19:58 Join bughunter2 [0] (
21:25:57scorchelinuxstb: yes, however they can display a nick publicly on the site...we require a full name for CC-by-sa purposes, of course so they need to enter that in the agreement box
21:26:20scorcheKeripo: sorr about being got caught by someone's overly broad ban
21:26:25scorchesorry, even
21:27:24Keriposure, no prob ; )
21:28:43Keripoquick question though - will rbutil be affected by any changes in ipodpatcher or are they completely separate
21:28:46 Quit Davide-NYC ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox]")
21:28:58*scorche looks at the 8 versions of he has in his working directory and wonders which one he was actively working on =/
21:29:14*scorche runs to the test server
21:30:23linuxstbKeripo: rbutil uses ipodpatcher.c (and ipodio-*) directly. main.c is just ipodpatcher itself.
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21:37:50linuxstbscorche: I don't understand. If you're saying you need the real name for CC-by-sa purposes, doesn't that mean everyone that downloads a copy also needs it?
21:39:43 Part eightfold
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21:41:54scorche|shlinuxstb: i can always put their name in a text file that comes with the theme...this is how it is currently set up
21:44:43disorganizera gsoc question: there is a part about rockbox-ui (pitchscreen, quickscreen). does the wording mean that those screens should be wps-ified?
21:45:14 Quit bertrik ("bye")
21:45:25BHSPitMonkeyscorche, you're a good person to talk to about the SoC, no?
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21:46:11scorche|shthat depends on what you want to talk about...
21:46:12linuxstbdisorganizer: No
21:46:19gevaertsdisorganizer: not from my reading of it
21:46:58disorganizerok. so the wording should propably clearer on what is to be done there. just for my feeling of it.
21:46:59*DerPapst votes for wps-ifying entire rockbox.
21:47:16*disorganizer votes for viewportfying the Papst :-)
21:47:19gevaertsdisorganizer: of course you are free to propose to do that anyway, and argue about why it's needed. DerPapst will gladly help you do that :)
21:47:22RincewindDerPapst: please don't...
21:47:37BHSPitMonkeyscorche|sh, I know it's late, but I'm strongly considering applying.
21:47:47*disorganizer is no student any more (im so old... :...(
21:47:53*DerPapst orgnaises disorganizer :-P
21:47:58BHSPitMonkey(And Rockbox is the first project that comes to mind.)
21:48:12linuxstbBHSPitMonkey: It's not late, you have 48 hours... Do you have any projects in mind?
21:48:12scorche|shBHSPitMonkey: it isnt too all likelyhood the applications will go on a further week
21:48:25BHSPitMonkeylinuxstb, that's another problem, I don't.
21:48:37*gevaerts recommends not counting on that extension yet...
21:48:40BHSPitMonkeyAnd, on top of that, I feel like I won't make the cut.
21:48:52scorche|shBHSPitMonkey: well, that is part of the need to pick a project that motivates you
21:49:08DerPapstor make one yourself *cough*
21:49:20*gevaerts hands DerPapst a throat lozenge
21:49:28scorche|shDerPapst: well, "pick" includes picking from one's head or even the tracker
21:49:29BHSPitMonkeyI want to apply with Rockbox simply because I've been in here for years, I know the community and the project already.
21:49:59scorche|shgevaerts: i think i may incorporate that into a future bot..
21:50:05BHSPitMonkeyBut, I've never delved into its code before. I feel like that rules me out or something.
21:50:15gevaertsBHSPitMonkey: then there should be at least something that you think is missing
21:50:16*DerPapst eats the throat lozenge
21:50:20scorche|shBHSPitMonkey: it surely doesnt
21:50:23 Quit preglow (
21:50:35*disorganizer is not paepslicher as DerPapst :-P
21:50:42 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
21:50:43disorganizerdamn, +t
21:50:46kugellinuxstb_: are you going to fix that? I mean that the default theme is not applied when the image checks fail
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21:51:05*gevaerts is running out of throat lozenges and adds them to his shopping list
21:51:17kugels/as/than, and it's perfect ;)
21:51:55 Quit mud-rb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:52:04gevaertsBHSPitMonkey: depending on what you want to do, getting to know the relevant code can be reasonably easy
21:52:12*disorganizer is just to drunk atm obviously
21:52:17Keripolinuxstb: <- patch if you want to look at it later or redirect it to someone else
21:52:25linuxstbkugel: I agree it should be fixed...
21:53:03BHSPitMonkeyI feel like I would want to either work on UI or codec-related ideas...
21:53:18kugelOk, I'm just gonna open a fs task, and someone will do it for sure ;)
21:53:22RincewindBHSPitMonkey: what is your programming background?
21:54:18BHSPitMonkeyRincewind, I studied C/C++ a little in high school, but I've been off of it for long time. Right now I'm a first-year CS major, so I've been doing a lot of Java.
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21:54:38BHSPitMonkeyThis summer I'll be in a C++ based comp. sci. class.
21:54:38scorche|shBHSPitMonkey: then a bit of research should be planned so that you can research the projects so you will know what one would expect to be doing exactly :)
21:55:04BHSPitMonkeyscorche|sh, that sentence confuses me thoroughly :)
21:55:15scorche| confused me too =/
21:55:27*scorche|sh /clears
21:55:31*gevaerts adds a "you" between would and expect
21:55:52BHSPitMonkeygevaerts, that only makes things worse :(
21:56:01*gevaerts removes it again
21:56:04scorche|shgevaerts: incorrect
21:56:06kugellinuxstb: hard-coded is more appropriate than default wps, isn't it? since cabbiev2's wps is the new default wps
21:56:10BHSPitMonkeyI see what you mean there, but it doesn't seem right
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21:56:38gevaertsBHSPitMonkey: have you ever worked on any kind of larger program ?
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21:58:32scorche|sh"Then you should plan to be doing a bit of research in the next few days for the projects you are interested in. This is necessary for you to understand what is going to be required to be done and what one would expect of such a person applying for such a project"
21:58:32*DerPapst doesn't like the "default to the default wps if other wps is broken".
21:58:47DerPapstit helped me finding out why my wps was broken.
21:59:01linuxstbKeripo: Please read the Rockbox coding codelines (docs/CONTRIBUTING) - specifically, no TABs ;)
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21:59:56RincewindBHSPitMonkey: the document viewer could be a nice project that doesn't require a very deep knowlegde of the rockbox core
22:00:03BHSPitMonkeyscorche|sh, you mean before the application deadline
22:00:40Keripolinuxstb: my bad ; ( - shall change
22:00:45RincewindDSP plugins would be nice (and maybe more useful), too.
22:00:48scorche|shBHSPitMonkey: yes...but like i said, it will likely be extended another week...then again, one shouldnt rely on that...
22:00:49BHSPitMonkeyRincewind, maybe. If I went down that road I would be digging into code used in existing document rendering software, too.
22:00:57BHSPitMonkeyscorche|sh, probably not.
22:02:08 Quit webguest14 (Client Quit)
22:02:33disorganizergood night@all
22:02:35BHSPitMonkeyscorche|sh, is my application necessarily set in stone? If I made a proposal, and the project would like to see something different done (or done differently), I would happily take the opportunity to talk about it in here and adapt my game plan.
22:02:47DerPapstBHSPitMonkey: it was extended last year iirc.
22:03:06BHSPitMonkeyRather than say, "Nope, this application isn't quite suitable. DELETED!"
22:03:19kugelFS #8828
22:03:26scorcheBHSPitMonkey: every application should have plenty of discussion going on in here about it started by the applicant :)
22:03:28kugeldisorganizer: goon night
22:03:39NJoinpreglow [0] (i=thomj@rockbox/developer/preglow)
22:03:44disorganizer;-) a goon night... nice one ;-)
22:03:51BHSPitMonkeyscorche, kind of like this? :)
22:04:06scorcheBHSPitMonkey: yes, but preferably with a project in mind ;)
22:04:09DerPapstdisorganizer will have dreams about goons of all kind
22:04:19BHSPitMonkeyheh, that's the rub, isn't it
22:04:22BHSPitMonkeyHave there been a lot of applicants already?
22:04:31DerPapst5 right now.
22:04:54kugelis goon actually a word?
22:05:02BHSPitMonkeyAh, I'd have guessed more.
22:05:03*DerPapst doesn't know
22:05:03*kugel misstyped obviously
22:05:10BHSPitMonkeykugel, it is
22:05:20 Quit Alvin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:05:27DerPapst hahahaha
22:05:28BigBambiIt generally means unintelligent hired thug
22:05:39gevaertsOr Eccles of course
22:05:47BHSPitMonkeyHave fun dreaming about them.
22:05:49disorganizeri could be running in some of those, though, tonight
22:05:51kugeldisorganizer: Sorry, I didn't mean to call you a goon ;;
22:06:09Rincewindcould be starcraft dragoner, too.
22:06:16disorganizerno problem, was just funny ;-)
22:06:20*linuxstb suspects gevaerts is speaking to the wrong generation
22:06:30*scorche also thinks he is speaking tot he wrong channel
22:06:46scorchewell, not him, but..
22:07:01*DerPapst hides
22:07:08BHSPitMonkeyI know what I should do, I should port wine and make it run Windows Mobile apps within Rockbox :P
22:07:13*disorganizer thinks tonight is the miss-spelling contest
22:07:16*BHSPitMonkey shields his face
22:07:35BHSPitMonkeydisorganizer, congratulations, you're tonight's Miss Spelling.
22:07:36scorcheBHSPitMonkey: good luck with that, but this isnt Google Decade of Code
22:07:36BigBambiBHSPitMonkey: If you could port beer to Rockbox instead you'ld be my hero
22:07:53DerPapstbaaahahahahaaa :-D
22:08:04BHSPitMonkeyBigBambi, it can be done on an individual basis, but only once per player.
22:08:13*linuxstb would be happy with wine, beer or even port
22:08:22 Part disorganizer
22:09:58BHSPitMonkeyDoes each mentoring organization just choose one student, or?
22:10:06 Join s0l1dsnak3123 [0] (
22:10:09Bagderno, several
22:10:16DerPapstleast year rockbox had 4 sluts
22:10:17Bagdereach org gets N slots assigned
22:10:20 Quit goffa (Remote closed the connection)
22:10:23scorcheBHSPitMonkey: see the FAQ
22:10:35mud-rb_i think it works that way too
22:10:37BHSPitMonkeyDerDome, is that what you call them
22:10:38scorcheDerPapst: same thing
22:10:59s0l1dsnak3123im thinking of buying an ipod (second hand most likely) and would like to know if this one would be compatible:
22:11:10BHSPitMonkeysorry DerDome, I'm a bad tab-completionist
22:11:22BigBambis0l1dsnak3123: Yes
22:11:23BHSPitMonkeys0l1dsnak3123, yes
22:11:30s0l1dsnak3123thanks :D
22:11:59s0l1dsnak3123tell me, is ipod linux still active?
22:12:09scorchethat isnt a topic suitable for this channel
22:12:10BHSPitMonkeyscorche, I suppose in order to apply, I have to marry myself to a specific project, then?
22:12:11Bagderdefine active first ;-)
22:12:13*gevaerts looks at DerPapst
22:12:17BHSPitMonkeys0l1dsnak3123, it has a pulse
22:12:25scorcheBHSPitMonkey: you can submit multiple applications
22:12:37BHSPitMonkeyscorche, ahh.
22:12:42s0l1dsnak3123would it be compatible with that ipod also?
22:12:53BHSPitMonkey(To the same organization? That's what I meant.)
22:12:55scorche<scorche> that isnt a topic suitable for this channel
22:13:06BHSPitMonkeys0l1dsnak3123, take it to #ipodlinux
22:13:11scorcheBHSPitMonkey: sure
22:13:11BHSPitMonkeyit's a different project.
22:13:14jhMikeS<scorche> <scorche> that isnt a topic suitable for this channel
22:13:21 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
22:13:21RincewindBHSPitMonkey: but if you submit multiple, you could end up with the wrong one
22:13:26 Join piga [0] (
22:13:30 Join nub [0] (
22:14:00BHSPitMonkeyRincewind, if I'm willing to do project X, Y, or Z for rockbox (whichever the community would most prefer to see worked on), then it wouldn't matter
22:14:11BHSPitMonkeyof course, that means three write-ups...
22:14:44RincewindI was assuming that there would be one project you would probably like the most
22:14:46*gevaerts wonders why he has added comments to all gsoc applications except Rincewind's
22:14:49scorcheRincewind: why would you submit a project you wouldnt want to do? =/
22:15:12Rincewindscorche: I wouldn't :)
22:15:24gevaertsscorche: why would you submit an RFID project to rockbox ? People do strange things...
22:15:27BHSPitMonkeyNeither would I.
22:15:35scorchegevaerts: errrr...
22:16:03BHSPitMonkey... a project involving RFID tags?
22:16:16scorchegevaerts: some students send their app off to any projects that *might* be interested...this is one of those, i assume
22:16:17Rincewindgevaerts: because my application is perfect, of course :)
22:16:19DerPapstgevaerts: because his is perfect?
22:16:20scorcheBHSPitMonkey: dont ask
22:16:26DerPapsttoo slow
22:17:03gevaertsRincewind: maybe :)
22:17:48*DerPapst puts a RFID sticker on his ipod... and sansa
22:17:52RincewindI would really like to see this RIFD application. I'm wondering how manny buzzwords are in there
22:18:10mud-rb_are the applications public somewhere? or only to involved people?
22:18:18DerPapstonly to the involved
22:18:23DerPapstaka mentors
22:18:43scorchethey are not public yet
22:18:57gevaertsBut some people are observant enough to get a fair idea about what's there. Ask DerPapst for any information you need ;)
22:19:16DerPapstpffft :-P
22:20:00scorchegevaerts: i fear that the usability study is a project people are flocking to since it sounds easy with little work =/
22:20:00BHSPitMonkeyRincewind, RFID tag our PMP's, making them administerable using an AJAXified site with a Linux backend with a Web 2.0 portal?
22:20:13*DerPapst should stop obervating and start writing
22:20:19gevaertsscorche: it's also the first one on the wiki...
22:20:35lostlogicjhMikeS: why not reduce the buffering priority in the constant instead of the -1 in the thread decl?
22:20:57 Part Keripo
22:20:58jhMikeSI could but I have to edit plugins too
22:21:00BHSPitMonkeyscorche, when I saw it, I figured it would be too MUCH work, because I understood it meant an extremely thorough and professional study
22:21:20BHSPitMonkeyCode, however... well, you just have to make it work or not work :)
22:21:47lostlogicyou don't want the buffering thread on the mpegplayer to also be bumped?
22:22:26jhMikeSthat works differently and the audio thread is what benefits from the bump there
22:22:31linuxstbWould anyone object to me adding a line to the wiki to say that we expect the usability study to also include some coding during the So*C* ?
22:22:48jhMikeSthough I may try it out
22:23:13 Part s0l1dsnak3123 ("Ex-Chat")
22:23:15 Quit MethoS (Remote closed the connection)
22:23:18gevaertslinuxstb: go ahead. Maybe also move it down a bit. Right now it's the first project mentioned
22:23:19jhMikeSaudio is PRIORITY_PLAYBACK-4 so buffering PRIORITY_BUFFERING-1 may help
22:23:30linuxstbgevaerts: And change to a tiny font? ;)
22:23:43 Part Chipsaru
22:23:46gevaertslinuxstb: a light blue tiny font ?
22:23:47 Join Chipsaru [0] (n=chips_ru@
22:23:56lostlogichmm, seems to me like it defeats the point of having some constants defined if we're going to do constant subtractions from them in certain scenarios
22:24:05linuxstbgevaerts: Sounds perfect.
22:24:19Rincewindlinuxstb: you could add that it is encouraged to discuss ideas on the irc channel before applying
22:24:37 Join axionix [0] (
22:25:09DerPapstRincewind: no one wants to be bothered with that :-P
22:25:17nubis rockbox worth getting??
22:25:36*DerPapst votes for yes.
22:25:40mud-rb_nub: do you really expect a negative answer to that?
22:25:41jhMikeSmaybe the plugin should add or subtract instead and not the core :)
22:25:46Rincewindnub: you ask this in #rockbox, the answer must be yes :)
22:25:50scorchenub: that is for you to decide...
22:25:52lostlogicnub: nope, we all work on it because it's worthless...
22:25:58DerPapstnub: it's free. everything that's free is worth getting it.
22:26:06nubone question then
22:26:12scorcheDerPapst: i disgree
22:26:18mud-rb_Der: i hearby offer you one free kick to the shin
22:26:32*scorche thinks more people should be joining #rockbox-community
22:26:35*DerPapst ducks
22:26:36nuball: how to hell do i download it onto the ipod i keep following the maual
22:26:46 Join salty_horse [0] (n=ori@pdpc/supporter/active/salty-horse)
22:26:56 Join Tatsh [0] (n=Tatsh@
22:26:57salty_horsehi. what's the default cabbiev2 font?
22:26:59scorchenub: well, they do it by following the manual, so what issue do you have?
22:27:00Tatshhi guys
22:27:10Tatshi tried upgarding my ipod mini 2g
22:27:13lostlogicsalty_horse: just load the cabbiev2 theme file and find out ;)
22:27:24Tatshand now i get the 'can't load rockbox.ipod' problem
22:27:30Tatshand windows and linux both don't see the device
22:27:43salty_horselostlogic, I can't find the font name after loading it :/ the font selector doesn't focus on it
22:27:46nubscorche: i mean where am i downloading it to, there is like no .exe to run or anything do i just drag it into the ipod
22:27:47Tatshi installed itunes on my windows partition to see if i could run some kind of fix
22:27:57 Nick salty_horse is now known as salty-horse (n=ori@pdpc/supporter/active/salty-horse)
22:28:01Tatshdoesn't seem to have anything as it can't see the ipod itself
22:28:01scorchenub: i thought you said you check the manual
22:28:13nubscorche:i did but im a nub
22:28:17lostlogicsalty-horse: I meant load it in the text editor ;)
22:28:26linuxstbTatsh: Do what the screen tells you - i.e. hold MENU+SELECT together until your ipod reboots, then immediately press and hold SELECT+PLAY to force it into disk mode.
22:28:39scorchenub: so did you read it or not?
22:28:40 Quit Buschel ()
22:29:05linuxstbTatsh: Or alternatively, hold MENU+SELECT to reboot, then immediately turn the hold switch on - that should start the original Apple firmware.
22:29:13Tatshah okay
22:29:43Tatshwindows is now seeing the ipod
22:29:52Tatshi'm so happy
22:29:55*Tatsh goes back to linux
22:29:58mud-rb_nub: the install instructions are pretty explicit. if you're confused about some part you can ask, but having us tell you what is already written out is not likely to help
22:30:01 Join saratoga [0] (n=442cd1a7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:30:02*Tatsh first uninstalls icrap
22:30:16 Quit saratoga (Client Quit)
22:30:24nubha ya k
22:30:40 Part piga ("Leaving")
22:30:58Tatshgod i love how rockbox isn't a total firmware hack
22:31:01salty-horselostlogic, where is the cabbie2 config files? I can only find the wps files
22:31:04Tatshwhich coudl result in bricks
22:31:08 Join saratoga [0] (n=442cd1a7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:31:38*Tatsh goes back to linux
22:31:47 Quit Tatsh (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:31:54lostlogicsalty-horse: probably .rockbox/themes, but I'm not entirely positive
22:31:58kugelsalty-horse: /.rockbox/themes
22:32:25linuxstbsaratoga: I'm not sure if you've been told, but your build server wasn't running an arm-elf-gcc with the current version of the multilib patch.
22:32:27 Join FOAD_ [0] (
22:33:05linuxstbsaratoga: It's fine for most targets, but e.g. the mrobe 500 build failed. Running again will fix it.
22:33:25salty-horseoh, it's generated.. I was looking in svn :)
22:33:34lostlogicgevaerts: why doesn't rolo rolo when I've changed rockbox.ipod while connected from ROCKBOX_USB?
22:34:09linuxstblostlogic: Because for some reason that code if #ifndef IPOD_ARCH... It needs fixing.
22:34:26jhMikeSe200 rolos endlessly when plugging usb
22:34:47saratogaand the mrobe builds correctly
22:34:49lostlogicat least I'm not crazy.
22:34:57saratogadidn't realize I was missing that
22:35:01saratogalinuxstb: I just updated it
22:35:18gevaertsjhMikeS: ?
22:35:18saratogawho should I talk to about improving mpegplayer?
22:35:34linuxstbsaratoga: jhMikeS has done the most work on it...
22:35:47saratogaalso, somehow the webclient just inserted those posts out of order ...
22:36:01nubi loeaded the boot loader but had an error! can't load rockbox.ipod files not found
22:36:16scorchenub: the bootloader isnt all there is
22:36:17linuxstbnub: Did you install Rockbox itself?
22:36:21saratogaalso #2: if anyone else asks about the ARM emulator, I clarified the description a little
22:37:11nublinuxstb:i thought i did, it has its own folder and everything but thats it
22:37:49saratogajhMikes: i am thinking about adding an additional video format to MPEG player, likely based on ffmpeg
22:38:08jhMikeSdoesn't ffmpeg alreay handle the 1&2 stuff?
22:38:11saratogai wanted to ask you about how the current mpeg2 decoder and how tightly coupled it is to the player itself
22:38:17BHSPitMonkeyWell, now I'm signed up.
22:38:22saratogaI was thinking of H.264
22:39:01DerPapstBHSPitMonkey: then go and write your proposal!
22:39:26BHSPitMonkeyRockbox, I want to grow old with you
22:39:29jhMikeSsaratoga: too tightly in IMHO. decoding and rendering should be better separated though alot of stuff was frameworked to add different parsers.
22:39:30saratogajhMikeS: how difficult would it be to add a second video format into the current encoder?
22:39:46saratogathats good to know
22:40:01saratogai'm debating proposing another GSOC project
22:40:05nubhow do u get rockbox by itself on my ipod, i have the bootloader but thats it
22:40:08saratogaand mpegplayer seems like fun
22:40:10jhMikeSjust more calls though pointers instead of hard coded
22:40:22BHSPitMonkeynub, download the .zip and extract it.
22:40:29nubafter that
22:40:31*domonok1 still only sees one useable gsoc application :-/ so to all apply !! :-)
22:40:38nubits been extracted
22:40:40BHSPitMonkeynub, that's it. You extract it to the ipod's drive.
22:41:03BHSPitMonkeydomonok1, I will, I will
22:41:17saratogai'm not too familar with what a video player actually needs to do, but I assume the underlying "stuff" (synchronization, seeking, ???) are similar enough between MPEG2 and MPEG4 that most of it could be reused?
22:42:27 Join Tatsh [0] (n=Tatsh_zz@
22:42:31Tatshso now linux sees the ipod
22:42:33saratogaI was thining of proposing H.264 + mp3 in .mp4 as the core project, with TI DSP acceleration + resizing as the "time permitting" portion
22:42:40Tatshand i figured out i got the wrong rockbox release
22:42:44jhMikeSsaratoga: I don't know how similar they are or if the container assists heavily in seeking. MPEG1/2 is extremely heavy in file searching.
22:42:48Tatshthought i had a 2g mini, but i have 1g
22:42:59domonok1nub, check your players driver, if there really is a .rockbox dir with a rockbox.ipod in it..
22:43:52jhMikeSsaratoga: gigabeat S should also be able to support hardware overlays and colorspace conversion but the decoding would be software, but I guess the TI chips can do both of those.
22:44:06 Join linuxstb__ [0] (
22:44:37jhMikeSThe S's IPU can do scaling too
22:45:00 Quit Tatsh (Remote closed the connection)
22:45:01 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:45:20 Join saratoga [0] (n=442cd1a7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:45:32saratogai guess the S is so fast a DSP really isn't all that important
22:45:41nubdomonk1: got it to work i believe
22:45:47 Quit linuxstb (Nick collision from services.)
22:45:49 Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (
22:46:05jhMikeSa good portion of computing is used in rendering YUV so offloading that is definitely a good thing
22:46:28saratogai really have no concept of where CPU time is spent in a video codec
22:46:54saratogaits so weird to look at how they work
22:46:55jhMikeSthe video codec is perhaps about 1/2 the video output load
22:47:04saratogasame ideas as an audio codec, but with tiny transform sizes
22:47:31saratogaand time/space redudancy are split up into seperate encoding tools
22:47:41saratogainstead of being unified in the MDCT
22:48:44jhMikeSyou mean the 8x8 block unit? They use IDCT not MDCT since there's no overlapping.
22:48:46saratogajhMikeS: (so i have something to think about) how difficult do you think making the changes to mpegplayer will be?
22:48:51nubok one last question ii hope,, is it possible to put vids on here
22:49:00saratogayeah i know its pure DCT
22:49:19 Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:49:19 Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (
22:49:48 Join Breakage [0] (n=Breakage@unaffiliated/breakage)
22:50:58jhMikeSsaratoga: not terrible I'd think if it carries similar functionality. the assembly IDCT should drop right into ffmpeg since it was identical.
22:51:12saratogasounds good
22:51:19Breakagewoah, just installed rockbox on my ipod nano 1g dual boot :) and damn the sound quality from it is amazing, props to the devs if there's any here. :)
22:51:31saratogamy time will be somewhat more limited this summer, but on the other hand, i have much more experience so I hope to be more productive
22:51:52saratogaand skip the first month of last summer where i just tried to understand ffmpeg and rockbox without getting much done
22:51:53jhMikeSthough I'd like not to lose 1) speed 2) frame-accuracy
22:53:36jhMikeSwhy was the first ffmpeg attempt at video so slow? is the library just not as fast?
22:54:28saratogajhMikeS: what attempt is that? I was just referring to splitting the ffmpeg wma codec
22:55:54amiconnWhoa, what happened in the 17:40 build round??
22:56:00jhMikeSthere's an old closed flyspray task but I don't remember which. It got like 2 fps.
22:56:05 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:56:07 Join Keripo [0] (
22:56:36Keripolinuxstb: I uploaded a diff this time and used spaces instead of tabs
22:56:44 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
22:57:24Bagderscorche: did you express Rockbox in favor of extending the application period?
22:57:42 Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.)
22:57:51scorcheBagder: no, i did not
22:57:58 Join DerPapst [0] (
22:58:39amiconnBagder: DO you know why there are holes in the table?
22:59:08linuxstbjhMikeS: The xvid patch on flyspray was libxvidcore iirc, not ffmpeg
23:00:35jhMikeSlinuxstb: Was it? Hmmm.
23:01:00linuxstbAnd I think it only got 2fps because the CPU wasn't boosted ;)
23:01:24 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@
23:01:26Bagderamiconn: the log looks suspicious, looks like a buildserver script bug or something
23:01:32linuxstbBut it was huge - just the video codec was bigger than 512KB, requiring the plugin buffer to be increased to use the patch.
23:01:50jhMikeShmmm...that might've gotten it to about 6 then :)
23:02:52Bagderamiconn: if it happens again I'll go after it
23:03:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:07:34Rincewindscorche: if the gsoc application period is extended, will the following time line be changed, too?
23:08:02 Join m0f0x [0] (
23:08:31scorcheRincewind: everything bumped a week, yes
23:09:17Rincewindso, even the final deadline August 18 is bumped?
23:09:18saratogawhy were they considering bumping it?
23:09:26jhMikeSshouldn't the plugin be renamed if it plays more than mpeg? :)
23:09:47saratogawell xvid + h.264 are still mpeg
23:10:06linuxstbWouldn't it be a separate plugin?
23:11:12jhMikeSit could be but a great deal of mpegplayer work would be applicable to that
23:11:28saratoganot to mention duplicating the audio codec
23:12:00nubyo having problems adding music on the ipod with rockbox
23:12:24jhMikeSthe plugin could have it's own codec api (a mini rockbox within rockbox as it were :)
23:13:04saratoganot to mention i don't know jack about proper threading in rockbox
23:13:12saratogaso i'm hoping the current mpegplayer plugin can do that for me
23:14:07saratogaalso, i just noticed FS #8822, how exactly is resume different from seeking? i just assumed rockbox issued a seek at the start of playback
23:14:42jhMikeSthe threads are _mostly_ insulated from caring about that
23:16:10*amiconn wonders about this whole video codec discussion
23:19:13jhMikeSto add H264 and XVID to mpegplayer and what's involved
23:19:29amiconnYeah, but I don't see the need for another video codec
23:19:55amiconnUnlike audio, one has to resize and hence transcode the video anyway
23:19:56saratogaH.264 makes a lot of sense since its more or less the standard for portable video
23:19:58 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
23:20:04saratoganot on some of our new targets
23:20:25saratogathe gigabeat and TMS targets can resize from 480p easily enough i think
23:20:34saratogaperhaps larger
23:21:29jhMikeSgigabeat F is pretty close to maxed at NTSC framrates though. S has the hardware image acceleration but not decoding acceleration.
23:21:46 Join Narc4746751 [0] (
23:21:46amiconnPerhaps, but why waste cpu power on something that the pc can do better (and also save disk space on the device this way)?
23:21:47saratogawhat is hardware image acceleration?
23:21:49rasherAlso, a good deal of content is available as H.264 in DAP-friendly sizes because of ipods and cellphones
23:21:55Narc4746751Morning #rockbox
23:22:18saratogain the long term thats a benefit of H.264, but it'd require an AAC codec that doesn't suck to be really useful
23:22:40linuxstbMaking an AAC codec that doesn't suck would be a more useful SoC project...
23:22:47rashersaratoga: Ah, I lost sight of the sound
23:22:50*amiconn agrees with linuxstb
23:22:53Narc4746751I've got a Sansa e280 v1 that's displaying the blue ring and black screen. I assume this to mean it's already in 'manufacturing mode.' When I connect it to my Linux box, lsusb shows no devices attached. Same when I boot it to manufacturing mode as per the unbrick instructions.
23:22:59amiconnAlthough I personally won't use AAC anyway
23:23:09saratogalinuxstb: I really don't think optimizing FAAC is a whole project
23:23:10jhMikeSsaratoga: it has an IPU for hardware overlays, rotation, scaling, color conversion, color keys and alph-blending
23:23:16Narc4746751Is it possible for me to recover this device?
23:23:36saratogajhMikeS: I don't really get what an IPU is? A DSP? Or something less flexible?
23:23:43rasherNarc4746751: I don't think it is expected to show up iin lsusb when in manufacturing mode
23:23:47saratogadoes it run ARM?
23:24:08Narc4746751rasher, that's encouraging. Do you know what the next step is?
23:24:23RincewindNarc4746751: does it show up in dmesg?
23:24:34rasherNarc4746751: running e200tool, but I don't remember the exact steps needed
23:24:52Narc4746751rincewind, how would it appear in dmesg?
23:24:53linuxstbsaratoga: I'm not sure I agree- there's a lot of profiles of AAC to optimise, and both ARM and Coldfire targets to work on. There's even part of FAAD that aren't converted to fixed point yet.
23:24:57 Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.)
23:25:00saratogaregarding FAAC, cleaning out the dead code and switching to the IDCT + windowing code from the WMA codec would probaly put its performance pretty close to Ogg
23:25:09Narc4746751Rincewind, when i run dmesg, i see a screenfull of VFS: busy inodes on changed media.
23:25:14 Join DerPapst [0] (
23:25:23 Join n1s [0] (
23:25:39saratogalinuxstb: theres really only two AAC profiles that actually are in any use, LC and HE(v2), and HE probably isn't feasible on most targets anyway
23:25:39RincewindNarc4746751: something about new scsi device attached
23:25:50Narc4746751rincewind, no dice then.
23:26:06Narc4746751i'll try it again with the select button and hold switch
23:26:13saratogathe other profiles like low delay and scalable sampling rate is more or less irrelevant since no one has encoders for them anyway outside of a few niches
23:26:28saratogaIMO they should just be removed from our source code
23:27:04Narc4746751Rincewind, no dice.
23:27:09domonok1saratoga: but a broader "improving rockbox audiocodec" could be a full gsoc project i think..
23:27:35amiconnAren't there some remaining problems in the wma decoder?
23:27:43saratogahow broad exactly?
23:27:47saratogaamiconn: oh yes
23:28:01linuxstbsaratoga: As broad as needed...
23:28:12domonok1and time allows :-)
23:28:26RincewindNarc4746751: I can't help you with e200tool, I never had to use it. But some people here should be able to help you (but maybe those are at sleep now)
23:28:28jhMikeSsaratoga: Image Processing Unit (that's what Freescale calls it)
23:28:41saratogabut the wma problems are getting fewer, and i'm slowly slogging through them
23:28:51Narc4746751okay, rincewind, I just tried it
23:28:53jhMikeSyou don't load you own code on it
23:28:55Narc4746751it looks for a certain USB device
23:29:01saratogai'm hoping to get that infurating 48k bug figured out soon
23:29:09Narc4746751and all I have is 0000.0000
23:29:19saratogai've certainly sunk enough time into figuring out why moving print statements changes the output of the decoder
23:29:44Narc4746751thanks anyways, rincewind =)
23:30:01Narc4746751maybe i'll donate this one to science.
23:30:49Rincewindit should be possible to recover if nothing is wrong with the hardware itself, sansas are quite hard to brick
23:31:13Narc4746751yeah, i've gone to the end of the unbrick page
23:31:20Narc4746751and it revolves around a USB connection to the device
23:31:28Narc4746751which I haven't achieved
23:31:54RincewindNarc4746751: have you tried windows?
23:32:17saratogai think you pretty much have to use linux
23:32:22Narc4746751rincewind, once
23:32:35Narc4746751rincewind, do you know the windows counterpart to lsusb?
23:33:22Rincewindthe little icon that comes up in the tray... sorry I'm not really competent enough to help you
23:33:36*Narc4746751 wishes usb had some kind of link light
23:33:56amiconnDevice manager...
23:36:30Narc4746751/var/log/messages has nothing to say about it either
23:37:26Narc4746751poo... and I had already promised this one to someone else.
23:37:31rasherNarc4746751: you need to run e200tool connect or something like that
23:37:37Narc4746751oh, really??
23:37:47*Narc4746751 goes and tries it
23:38:02rasherI'm not sure that's the exact command, but you need to do something to "wake it up"
23:38:21Narc4746751e200tool init
23:38:25Narc4746751looks for a usb device
23:38:38Narc4746751Searching for device 0781:0720 ... 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 not found!
23:38:54Bagderif the e200 doesn't show up as a usb device at all, it is probably dead or you have a problem in the host or with the cable
23:39:12Narc4746751i tried two cables, badger, and the host worked fine this morning.
23:39:12linuxstbOr you're not entering manufacturing mode correctly...
23:39:14rasherI seem to recall this happening to me as well
23:39:26rasherThen suddenly I did The Magic Thing
23:39:51Narc4746751maybe i'm holding my mouth wrong
23:40:18*DerPapst adds a (tm)
23:40:29Narc4746751hey, this couldn't be aproblem with the battery, could it?
23:40:46Narc4746751i have some others i could swap out later
23:41:00Narc4746751and it doesn't seem to hold much of a charge
23:41:35 Quit nub ()
23:43:45 Part Keripo
23:44:19 Part salty-horse ("Leaving")
23:45:04advcomp2019Narc4746751, sometimes it takes more then one time i have seen myself
23:45:35Narc4746751advcomp2019, I have tried about eight times by now.
23:45:52scorchehrm...DeviceChart needs to be updated...
23:46:27advcomp2019are you holding the REC button long enough?
23:46:36Narc4746751trouble is I bought this as a returned device
23:46:38Narc4746751so I have no idea what's been done to it
23:46:52Narc4746751advcomp2019, I am holding the select button while plugging it into the USB.
23:48:12scorcheCustomWPS is behind in LCD sizes too =/
23:48:25advcomp2019the e200tool works when it is in manufacturer mode while holding the REC button the last i knew
23:48:48Narc4746751i have not tried the rec button
23:49:00Narc4746751i didn't think it was necessary for a USB connection
23:49:09Narc4746751but here I go
23:49:20scorchei assume the m:robe is 160x128x2?
23:49:32scorcheas in, not "gray"scale?
23:49:53scorchesorry...i mean x1
23:50:00linuxstbYes, it's x1
23:50:29Narc4746751advcomp2019, no dice.
23:51:08Narc4746751i've held it for 15 sec now and still no usb connection.
23:51:15scorcheand does the M3 use traditional WPSs, or it is a RWPS?
23:52:54amiconnBut it can use the prepared .rwps'es for X5/M5
23:53:08Narc4746751same result with battery removed
23:53:19 Join tessarakt [0] (
23:53:25Narc4746751when I removed the back plate, it seemed like it had been removed before. it wasn't torqued down.
23:53:36 Quit davina ("GNU/Linux the free alternative to Windows")
23:53:39Narc4746751i hope nobody opened up the cabinet and spit in it.
23:53:41amiconnJust a matter of a rename. Afaik the wps/rwps distinction is only added by wpsbuild; in svn they all use wps
23:54:45 Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.)
23:54:49amiconnThe M5 is also missing in the CustomWPS table
23:55:02 Join DerPapst [0] (
23:55:44scorcheyes, but for the purposes of the theme site, the RWPSs just come with the WPS...since RWPSs are specified and generally come with the theme as a package
23:56:28scorche128Ś96x2 for the M3 then?
23:57:29 Quit nplus (Remote closed the connection)
23:57:46amiconnNo RTC, btw
23:57:49 Join mrkiko [0] (
23:57:51LloreanOstensibly then, X5/M5 themes work as M3 themes.
23:58:08mrkikoHi all!
23:58:19mrkikoHas someone red my today's considertions about playback?
23:58:23LloreanWell, I guess not, since it won't differentiate the extension. Nevermind.

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