| 00:00:00 | | Join kushal_12_27_200 [0] (n=kushal@12.169.180.134) |
| 00:00:35 | advcomp2019 | Narc4746751, i think when the sansa in manufacturer mode the operating systems reads it as something else but i do not remember right now |
| 00:00:58 | scorche | the site will start off clean slate as originally intended...i dont feel like editing hundreds of text files to make them have the correct info for the new site |
| 00:01:03 | | Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:01:05 | Narc4746751 | narc, it reads as some USB device. |
| 00:01:09 | | Join fyre^OS [0] (n=fyre@cpe-68-173-163-201.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:01:17 | Narc4746751 | ok, I took off the front cover |
| 00:01:33 | Narc4746751 | and on haxx.se there is a picture of the board |
| 00:01:38 | Narc4746751 | and the picture has a TI L2 chip |
| 00:01:43 | Narc4746751 | which is missing on my player |
| 00:01:58 | | Join cbr|w [0] (n=cbr@212.98.160.130) |
| 00:02:16 | scorche | Narc4746751: please express yourself in complete thoughts on a single line...it makes things much easier to read than splitting it up liek that |
| 00:02:30 | Narc4746751 | Will do, scorche. |
| 00:02:59 | advcomp2019 | Narc4746751, do you know if it is v1 or v2.. i can find a photo of a v2 from the forums if needed |
| 00:03:01 | Narc4746751 | I've removed the front cover on my e260 and looked at the circuit board. On haxx.se there is a picture of a TI L2 chip on the front of the board. Mine seems to be missing. |
| 00:03:05 | Narc4746751 | it is a v1 |
| 00:03:51 | Narc4746751 | lol |
| 00:04:01 | * | Narc4746751 puts a big greasy fingerprint right on the LCD |
| 00:04:37 | advcomp2019 | look at these photos and see if they look like yours.. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.msg114410#msg114410 |
| 00:05:43 | Narc4746751 | advcomp2019, the front board does not match. I don't think it's a v2. |
| 00:06:45 | advcomp2019 | o ok.. it was just an idea |
| 00:06:54 | Narc4746751 | it's OK |
| 00:07:11 | Narc4746751 | I wonder what that TI chip does |
| 00:07:28 | Narc4746751 | it's U14 on the circuit board |
| 00:08:17 | mud-rb_ | could it be the chip for the radio? that's the only thing i know of that some v1 have that others don't |
| 00:09:38 | Narc4746751 | mud-rb_, apparently it's a CMOS driver |
| 00:09:50 | Narc4746751 | http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/parts/datasheet/477/SN74LVC244A.php |
| 00:10:22 | Narc4746751 | it doesn't show any signs of having been removed either |
| 00:11:05 | scorche | Bagder: isnt it logical that the M3 be placed before the M5 and X5 in the builds page? |
| 00:11:25 | Bagder | yes I guess |
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| 00:14:44 | jrsharp | hey all... my father-in-law is blind and I've recently started considering getting him an mp3 player of some kind and installing the rockbox firmware with speech stuff... my question is, is there a particular supported device that is recommended? |
| 00:15:35 | nub | anyone know how to get a vid onto a ipod 1st gen? |
| 00:15:41 | Bagder | jrsharp: I'd consider asking on the mailing list, where most of our blind users seem to hang out |
| 00:16:13 | Bagder | I'd guess that the ones with actual real buttons are preferred |
| 00:16:34 | jrsharp | over, say, an iPod with a click wheel? |
| 00:16:36 | * | domonok1 recomends jrsharp a device with actual buttons instead of a slidewheel or alike.. |
| 00:16:43 | Bagder | jrsharp: right |
| 00:17:08 | jrsharp | ok... so a 1st gen iPod would count, right? they didn't have the click wheel, right? |
| 00:17:21 | DerPapst | yes. |
| 00:17:43 | jrsharp | ok, cool |
| 00:17:51 | domonok1 | but 1gen ipod isnt really stabel with rockbox till now, am i right ? |
| 00:17:52 | jrsharp | of course, I'm not stuck on an iPod... |
| 00:17:54 | amiconn | Llorean, scorche: It might be useful to separate the M3 themes, as the M3 allows to choose e.g. the font freely, while the M5/X5 remotes are coupled to the main font |
| 00:18:25 | jrsharp | domonok1: oh? I figured 1st gen ought to be well supported... |
| 00:18:46 | domonok1 | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TargetStatus :-) |
| 00:18:48 | scorche | amiconn: yes...i already have a separate section for the M3 and am not planning on tying in the RWPSs to the M3 section |
| 00:18:50 | | Quit CyBergRind|w (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:18:50 | DerPapst | tough i wouldn't recommend an iPod at all, though i can use mine blindy very well since it has a case and the clickwheel is now 1mm below the average case heigh |
| 00:18:53 | BigBambi | jrsharp: You want a non-portalplayer in my opinion |
| 00:19:00 | amiconn | 1st/2nd Gen should be stable now, but the lack of suspend isn't nice |
| 00:19:13 | Llorean | amiconn: The interesting thing is, though, that any font chosen for the "main" font, would still have to work with the .rwps file on M5/X5 anyway, so they'd be valid. The only problem is I imagine it'd load the .wps instead of the .rwps for the remote screen on the M3, so that's the real problem (in my view) |
| 00:19:32 | jrsharp | domonok1: ahh... I see that now |
| 00:19:33 | Llorean | If it loaded .rwps, it wouldn't look as good as it could, but it'd still be designed for that screen / font combo |
| 00:20:06 | nub | anyone: do you guys know who to put a video onto a 1st gen ipod nano. i am confused by the directions given |
| 00:20:14 | BigBambi | iriver H100, H300, iaudio X5, M5, (M3?), or for most stability but MP3 only one of the Archos' |
| 00:20:16 | scorche | theme makers can just submit their own for the M3 and if a person wants (and knows about it), they can take the RWPS out of the M5/X5 sections...i could put a notice at teh top of the M5 portion as well |
| 00:20:19 | BigBambi | nub: Cpy and paste? |
| 00:20:23 | BigBambi | *copy |
| 00:20:24 | domonok1 | jrsharp: you may also want to look at: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TargetStatus?topic=BuyersGuide |
| 00:20:29 | mud-rb_ | nub: which part specifically? |
| 00:20:49 | jrsharp | DerPapst: why a non-portalplayer? |
| 00:20:57 | amiconn | I think a 1st..3rd Gen ipod would be better for a blind user than the newer ipods, because these older ones don't have the buttons integrated into the wheel (i.e. no clickwheel, but a separate touchwheel (2nd and 3rd Gen) or a mechanical scrollwheel (1st Gen) respectively |
| 00:21:00 | jrsharp | domonok1: thanks, I'm checking that out |
| 00:21:20 | BigBambi | jrsharp: I assume that was at me, not DerPapst |
| 00:21:49 | jrsharp | BigBambi: yeah, sorry... my eyes got crossed.. >) |
| 00:22:09 | amiconn | Ah yes, there's that detection problem on early 1st Gens... |
| 00:22:11 | jrsharp | amiconn: yeah, tha's a good point |
| 00:22:25 | Llorean | scorche: Notice is probably best. "While X5/M5 themes don't directly work with the M3, the RWPS can be taken and used as an M3 WPS with small modifications to the .cfg" or some such |
| 00:22:26 | BigBambi | jrsharp: And because of battery life, stability and completeness of features. There isn't much in it now, but still |
| 00:22:38 | * | amiconn should post his test bootloader... |
| 00:22:42 | DerPapst | i wouldn't recommend a 3G at all |
| 00:22:53 | DerPapst | because the hold switch is the only real "button" |
| 00:23:19 | amiconn | DerPapst: The buttons below the lcd are touch stuff on 3rd Gen? |
| 00:23:26 | DerPapst | yes |
| 00:23:33 | jrsharp | so do the voice features of rockbox work equally well on all ports, then |
| 00:23:34 | jrsharp | ? |
| 00:24:03 | amiconn | Oh, so that's also bad. 1st/2nd Gen should have better battery runtime than 3rd Gen (purely because of the higher battery capacity) |
| 00:24:05 | domonok1 | yes, only the old archos are a bit more limited.. |
| 00:24:21 | amiconn | More limited, but stable..... |
| 00:25:14 | jrsharp | ok |
| 00:25:26 | DerPapst | i thought the 3G has a better battery |
| 00:25:29 | amiconn | The 1st/2nd Gen buttons are mechanical, and they protrude from the case |
| 00:25:57 | amiconn | DerPapst: 3rd Gen battery capacity is around half that of the 1st/2nd Gen - with the same CPU... |
| 00:26:12 | amiconn | The drawback of the 1st/2nd Gen is that they're firewire only |
| 00:26:15 | DerPapst | oh... |
| 00:26:16 | * | domonok1 still need someone to tell him why this talkfile: http://www.retrospektiwe.de/The%20Last%20Supper.mp3.talk is cut of in rockbox, but decodes fine with rbspeexdec .. |
| 00:26:46 | amiconn | 1230mAh (1st/2nd) vs. 630mA (3rd) |
| 00:26:49 | * | jhMikeS still wonders why any would be at all |
| 00:27:05 | nub | ok dude im confused say i have a .mp4 vid |
| 00:27:12 | nub | i cant just put that into the ipod right |
| 00:27:45 | domonok1 | nub, yes you have to convert, take a look at the wikipage of mpegplayer |
| 00:27:47 | mud-rb_ | nub: no, you can't. you need to transcode it to a different codec. |
| 00:27:58 | nub | to mpeg correct |
| 00:28:02 | nub | mpeg-2 |
| 00:28:04 | nub | right |
| 00:28:13 | domonok1 | to mpeg and the right screensize.. |
| 00:28:14 | mud-rb_ | correct |
| 00:28:18 | BigBambi | or 1 |
| 00:29:49 | domonok1 | is there some header which could be wrong in talkfiles ? or are they completly raw ? |
| 00:30:12 | jrsharp | thanks everybody... you've been very helpful |
| 00:31:59 | jhMikeS | domonok1: raw speex |
| 00:32:26 | nub | after converted |
| 00:32:31 | nub | copy and paste? |
| 00:32:50 | domonok1 | jhMikeS: any idea how i could debug this problem ? ( the talkfile was generated by rbutil, and i want find the bug) :-) |
| 00:33:49 | jhMikeS | make sure talk.c is sending everything. the voice thread should also be decoding everything until libspeex indicates the clip has ended. |
| 00:34:51 | jhMikeS | I take it this depends on if music is running or not? |
| 00:35:10 | domonok1 | i only tried it without music.. |
| 00:35:15 | Narc4746751 | What's the easiest way to remove lint and fibers from the inside of a player's case? |
| 00:35:23 | Narc4746751 | i have access to a cleanroom if necessary |
| 00:35:36 | domonok1 | its also cut off in the sim... but a decoded wav file with rbspeexdec is fine with it.. |
| 00:36:08 | jhMikeS | I'd try with music. that may point to the pcm buffer not playing every frame |
| 00:36:39 | Narc4746751 | Maybe I'll try a can of duster. |
| 00:36:51 | domonok1 | on target its fine with musik.. |
| 00:37:37 | domonok1 | so it probably just stops playback to early ? |
| 00:37:39 | | Quit phinze () |
| 00:38:45 | jhMikeS | that indicates talk.c and voice_thread.c are doing it right but makes me suspect the pcmbuf.c fails to play all the inserted data |
| 00:41:08 | | Quit nub () |
| 00:41:10 | * | domonok1 is a bit lost in this code .. :-/ |
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| 00:43:25 | | Quit m0f0x () |
| 00:43:42 | BumAz | untagged tracksss? how can i change that |
| 00:43:49 | scorche | tag them |
| 00:44:01 | BumAz | how |
| 00:44:31 | scorche | by using a tag editor like mp3tag, the godfather, etc (assuming you are using windows and mp3s) |
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| 00:45:35 | gevaerts | Narc4746751: just reading the backlog. Did you run lsusb and e200tool as root ? |
| 00:45:42 | BumAz | scorche: why does it do that |
| 00:46:03 | scorche | "it" doesnt...you didnt tag them or wherever you got them from didnt |
| 00:46:40 | BumAz | scorche: pretty gayy if u ask me |
| 00:46:45 | scorche | ... |
| 00:46:54 | Narc4746751 | gevaerts, yes |
| 00:47:04 | scorche | this is *your* fault here for not tagging your files... |
| 00:47:07 | gevaerts | ok. that's not the problem then... |
| 00:47:09 | Narc4746751 | gevaerts, i opened the cabinet and found a missing IC. |
| 00:47:22 | BumAz | scorche, well its itunes fault |
| 00:47:29 | scorche | then whine to them |
| 00:47:56 | | Quit jrsharp () |
| 00:48:06 | Narc4746751 | gevaerts, the TI LC24 to be exact |
| 00:49:53 | * | amiconn now has a bunch of rather interesting curves |
| 00:50:17 | * | Narc4746751 puts on sunglasses and gazes at amiconn sideways |
| 00:50:41 | | Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 00:50:55 | BumAz | i will |
| 00:51:51 | BumAz | ok scorche, can u use other programs to dl music too then? |
| 00:51:59 | scorche | that is offtopic here |
| 00:52:19 | BumAz | o ok |
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| 00:56:45 | gevaerts | Could some gsoc mentors have a look at the latest comment in Corey Shaffer's usability application ? I think someone with more rockbox-knowledge than me should reply to that |
| 00:58:37 | | Quit Rincewind ("bye") |
| 00:59:34 | scorche | I commented...there are quite a few other things about his application I think needs to be discussed besides that, so it would just be better in IRC |
| 01:00 |
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| 01:00:20 | gevaerts | great |
| 01:00:34 | | Quit phinze () |
| 01:03:57 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:06:25 | linuxstb | scorche: Just a thought - if we have discussions with students in IRC, one of us should try and remember to post a link to the logs as a comment attached to the application, so mentors that miss the chat in IRC know it existed. |
| 01:06:43 | linuxstb | (or even the student could...) |
| 01:06:52 | | Join GPT [0] (n=GPT@unaffiliated/gpt) |
| 01:07:34 | scorche | linuxstb: that is a good idea, however there are some folks who are in here routinely and we would end up with a hundred or so links... |
| 01:08:03 | linuxstb | True... |
| 01:08:39 | | Quit ender` (" Today's BOFH excuse: broadcast packets on wrong frequency") |
| 01:09:00 | scorche | there are also discussions about certain ideas that may not have been about the student's proposal specifically |
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| 03:10:52 | kugel | what's the best way to prepare the source code to be distributed without all the .svn folders? |
| 03:11:26 | | Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection) |
| 03:11:39 | DerPapst | kugel: look how it is done here: http://pastebin.ca/962361 |
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| 03:13:45 | psycho_maniac | congrats on getting into the 2008 GSOC |
| 03:13:46 | kugel | I don't quite get the script. what will it exactly do? |
| 03:15:11 | kugel | DerPapst: ^ |
| 03:16:11 | kugel | DerPapst: I don't see where the .svn folders are taken out |
| 03:16:14 | DerPapst | it will copy the entire svn tree to a folder and 7zip it up. |
| 03:16:48 | kugel | with the .svn folders? |
| 03:16:55 | kugel | I do not want them |
| 03:16:55 | DerPapst | kugel: it doesn't. svn ls -R doesn't include them |
| 03:18:26 | DerPapst | the line including the svn ls -R part copies the entire source tree to another directory skipping the .svn folders. |
| 03:19:35 | kugel | ah ok |
| 03:20:06 | kugel | and if I don't want 7z but normal zip? |
| 03:23:02 | linuxstb | A simple way would just be (in your Rockbox dir) "svn ls -R | xargs zip mysource.zip" |
| 03:23:16 | DerPapst | replace the 7zr command with the zip one. |
| 03:23:38 | DerPapst | meh.. too easy |
| 03:24:22 | kugel | DerPapst: Yea, that idea came just into my mind after I asked :/ Too late allready for me |
| 03:24:22 | | Quit psycho_maniac (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!") |
| 03:24:46 | kugel | linuxstb, DerPapst: Thanks. I didn't know about "svn ls -R" |
| 03:25:45 | kugel | It seems to delete.rej and .org files as well. |
| 03:25:59 | DerPapst | s/delete/skip :-P |
| 03:26:33 | DerPapst | it skips all files not added to svn. So in order to add new source files you need to svn add them first. |
| 03:27:31 | kugel | ah ok |
| 03:27:36 | kugel | yea, I've done that |
| 03:29:29 | Nico_P | kugel: there's also svn export |
| 03:31:04 | kugel | DerPapst: The files I added aren't in the zip |
| 03:32:50 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Does that work with local changes though? |
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| 03:33:37 | DerPapst | kugel: and you did "svn add ./path/to/file.c" ? |
| 03:33:44 | kugel | DerPapst: sure |
| 03:34:04 | Nico_P | linuxstb: apparently if you don't specify the rev local changes are kept |
| 03:34:13 | DerPapst | hrmm.... don't know then |
| 03:34:19 | Nico_P | I've never tried though |
| 03:34:24 | * | DerPapst isn't a svn wizard |
| 03:35:23 | * | DerPapst tries |
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| 03:38:16 | DerPapst | indeed, it's missing |
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| 03:38:50 | DerPapst | no idea why though |
| 03:40:43 | DerPapst | svn export does the trick. |
| 03:43:52 | kugel | yea |
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| 05:37:00 | Dr_Pressure | I have a question about power supplies for an Archos. Would it be better suited in #rockbox-community or in here? |
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| 07:11:53 | ranjith | hi everyone |
| 07:12:40 | DerPapst | lo ranjith |
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| 08:14:46 | | Part toffe82 |
| 08:17:31 | * | amiconn would think 'lightweight' would be for slow processors, not fast ones... |
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| 08:22:23 | DerPapst | morning amiconn :-) |
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| 08:23:07 | amiconn | mo0ning |
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| 08:59:45 | jhMikeS | not at all. the point is to have drivers that keep a fast processor doing nothing as much as possible and let peripherals do the work instead instead of cycle buring in loops. |
| 09:00 |
| 09:01:27 | | Quit RedDraken ("KVIrc 3.2.4 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/") |
| 09:02:05 | amiconn | You mean just let the hardware do something and sleep meanwhile *without* yielding? |
| 09:03:03 | jhMikeS | yield by just sleeping the calling thread which lasts for the entire duration of whatever is being done |
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| 09:04:09 | amiconn | Why not a plain yield() in this case? |
| 09:04:34 | jhMikeS | then the processor can't enter a sleep state |
| 09:04:55 | amiconn | hmm |
| 09:06:00 | amiconn | So this is actually almost the same as sleep(0) if I'm not missing something |
| 09:06:10 | jhMikeS | no |
| 09:06:50 | jhMikeS | it's not tick based at all, it's immediate wakeup of the thread when the interrupt signals it |
| 09:07:21 | amiconn | Yes, that's why I said 'almost'Ä |
| 09:07:24 | amiconn | -Ä |
| 09:07:44 | jhMikeS | all explicit wakeups are immediate so they can happen faster and with far less latency than the tick |
| 09:07:52 | amiconn | sleep(0) sleeps until the end of the tick. This one just sleeps until the next interrupt |
| 09:09:51 | amiconn | Well, my first thought might actually be useful on all targets: a micro-sleep *without* yielding, instead of those really short delay loops. Requires the respective driver code to use interrupts though |
| 09:09:53 | jhMikeS | the thread isn't nescessary put pack into the run list on the next interrupt, many interrupts could happen before the handler wakes it. |
| 09:11:03 | amiconn | But that idea doesn't need support in the scheduler, and is better inlinied into the driver code |
| 09:11:26 | jhMikeS | micro sleep? like udelay? :) |
| 09:11:55 | amiconn | Yes and no. udelay() uses busy-looping |
| 09:14:04 | amiconn | Hmm, the PP502x has that suspend-for-n microseconds feature, which could (should?) be used for udealy... |
| 09:14:09 | amiconn | *udelay |
| 09:14:47 | jhMikeS | I don't think it's sensitive to interrupts though even if bit 31 is set |
| 09:15:33 | amiconn | What was the limit, again? There are some udelay calls waiting a quite high number of microseconds |
| 09:15:52 | jhMikeS | 256 of any unit |
| 09:16:11 | jhMikeS | 255 |
| 09:16:37 | amiconn | Hmm, so the wait has to be split anyway |
| 09:17:51 | jhMikeS | where are the big udelays used for anything other than init code (and the e200 radio driver)? |
| 09:18:20 | amiconn | I only know some inits (e.g. lcd) |
| 09:18:31 | amiconn | Those should better use sleep() |
| 09:18:51 | amiconn | But then we need a working sleep() for bootloaders |
| 09:19:01 | jhMikeS | yep |
| 09:20:27 | amiconn | The udelay() could use the core suspend feature with just a tiny bit more code: |
| 09:21:17 | jhMikeS | It has to be short enough to allow FIQ servicing though |
| 09:21:18 | amiconn | Instead of the empty while(){} body, make it suspend for MAX(stop-USEC_TIMER, 255) |
| 09:21:42 | amiconn | Erm, MIN() of course |
| 09:23:00 | amiconn | How deep is the sample fifo? |
| 09:24:03 | jhMikeS | 16 |
| 09:24:24 | jhMikeS | it's allow to drop to 4 before being refilled |
| 09:26:52 | amiconn | So 12 samples. Does the PP hardware support 88200Hz sample rate? |
| 09:28:01 | jhMikeS | It's supports a huge sample clock range and the wm codecs can support 96KHz I think |
| 09:28:52 | amiconn | OK. Hmm, actually the latency is 4 samples max, because the udelay() could be entered when the buffer is already quite low |
| 09:29:22 | amiconn | Still, 40 us should be safe (at 96kHz) then |
| 09:29:30 | jhMikeS | IIS master mode has a large range. A master codec determines the IIS clock otherwise |
| 09:31:33 | amiconn | At 80MHz, 80 us equals 3200 clock cycles during which the cpu could sleep before rechecking USEC_TIMER... depending on how often this is used in drivers, it save quite a bit of battery power |
| 09:31:51 | amiconn | Insert "could" where appropriate |
| 09:32:06 | amiconn | And iI meant 40 us, bah |
| 09:35:43 | jhMikeS | FIQ is allowed from IRQ mode so it should be ok even from inside an IRQ handler (I hope that's actually working) |
| 09:39:09 | jhMikeS | the scheduler has lower latencies across sleeps and context switches than 3200 clocks |
| 09:40:04 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: why is therre IF_COP() being used instead of the full #ifdef ? isnt that frowned on? |
| 09:40:41 | jhMikeS | #ifdef everywhere makes the code bloody unreadable |
| 09:41:29 | | Quit midgey () |
| 09:41:41 | jhMikeS | it's confined to one-liners only but if the code police must enforce it I'll change it |
| 09:43:22 | jhMikeS | 3200 clocks is about 3 to 4 messages received and responded to at 80MHz |
| 09:46:01 | amiconn | The scheduler might have lower latency, but the code in the schedules threads might not |
| 09:46:14 | amiconn | *scheduled |
| 09:47:39 | amiconn | The 3200 cycles are for 40 us, and some driver code relies on udelay() being precise enough |
| 09:48:09 | amiconn | There's at least one I know of - the brightness setting code for iPod Video+Nano |
| 09:49:36 | jhMikeS | that's the point - the scheduler is pure friction code and performs no useful work. those number didn't include disabling ticks or other periodic threads like power. |
| 09:49:47 | | Quit ceclin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 09:54:15 | amiconn | But sleeping 3200 cycles is still better than busy-looping the same time, that was my point |
| 09:54:31 | * | amiconn should probably just try it |
| 09:56:01 | jhMikeS | quite true |
| 09:56:28 | amiconn | Is udelay() called from COP? |
| 09:57:30 | jhMikeS | I'm not aware of any instances right now. |
| 09:58:59 | amiconn | Hmm, still something it should be secured against, I think |
| 09:59:15 | amiconn | Maybe it makes sense to un-inline it then |
| 09:59:45 | amiconn | Something that is meant for waiting doesn't need to be super-fast after all :) |
| 09:59:50 | jhMikeS | CURRENT_CORE is only a 3-instruction inline |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:53 | amiconn | Yeah, but checking that every loop iteration doesn't make sense |
| 10:01:24 | jhMikeS | the curent core is always the current one |
| 10:02:06 | amiconn | Of course. Thing is, you need to use a different register for suspending depending on which core enters udelay |
| 10:02:29 | amiconn | So udelay would need to be expanded into 2 different while() loops |
| 10:02:30 | jhMikeS | use PROC_CTL(core) = nnn |
| 10:03:13 | jhMikeS | that just makes a str r0, [r1, r2, lsl #2] kind of thing |
| 10:03:14 | amiconn | Then you do check every interation... |
| 10:03:22 | amiconn | hmm |
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| 10:10:07 | * | amiconn thinks we should document all the RE'd PP details in our wiki |
| 10:11:34 | jhMikeS | another thing is I think the USEC_TIMER wraps way before 2^32-1, trying to use it for more extended measurement seemed to indicate that but I never actually ran a test |
| 10:12:31 | amiconn | Hmm, I don't think it does |
| 10:12:44 | amiconn | If it would, it would cause occasional freezes |
| 10:13:32 | jhMikeS | I tried measuring longer intervals in the e200 scrollwheel driver and it broke after about 20 minutes of inactivity |
| 10:16:03 | amiconn | Putting the USEC timer into the ports debug screen and then watch it for a while should tell. Weel, that 'while' would be quite long |
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| 10:16:52 | amiconn | 4295 seconds, i.e. 1:11:35 |
| 10:17:42 | jhMikeS | just have it splash or write the ticks to a file when it sees a value less than the previous? |
| 10:18:31 | amiconn | But if it wraps earlier, it could cause freezes, because then stop = USEC_TIMER + usecs could calculate a value that is never reached |
| 10:21:43 | jhMikeS | the udelay implementation in retailos is more elaborate than the one in rockbox. I think MrH just copied it to e200tool. |
| 10:23:17 | jhMikeS | oddly enough I see no use of clockskipping except in the frequency scaling :) |
| 10:24:19 | * | amiconn now has the udelay timer in his 2nd Gen ports debug screen |
| 10:24:40 | amiconn | Will watch it for a while. Just compiling the same for mini 2nd Gen |
| 10:30:09 | | Quit jhulst_ ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 10:31:24 | | Join picky [0] (n=4fd3cfa6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b471b1a0b169a609) |
| 10:33:07 | picky | Llorean: ping |
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| 10:39:01 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@84-255-206-8.static.t-2.net) |
| 10:39:31 | picky | Are there microSD cards with at least 16GB capacity that are usable with Sansa e200 (under RockBox of course) |
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| 10:42:39 | scorche | they dont go up that high yet |
| 10:42:45 | Llorean | Yes |
| 10:42:47 | Llorean | picky: And yes? |
| 10:43:02 | Llorean | scorche: And, they don't go that high *yet* :-P |
| 10:43:41 | | Quit MagicFab (Remote closed the connection) |
| 10:43:41 | scorche | that is why i put "yet" on there... |
| 10:44:13 | scorche | picky: to make it clear, they should be once they come out, but they havent yet... |
| 10:44:15 | Llorean | Apparently I can't read. |
| 10:44:20 | Llorean | It is late/early. |
| 10:44:39 | scorche | Llorean: heh...didnt even see the "yet"? |
| 10:44:52 | Llorean | nope |
| 10:45:23 | * | scorche cleans the smudge off Llorean's screen |
| 10:45:33 | | Quit flaser ("CGI:IRC") |
| 10:46:39 | picky | scorche: ah, so there just isn't any? 8 GB is the biggest capacity available? |
| 10:46:48 | scorche | currently, yes |
| 10:47:57 | picky | Llorean: have you seen my question and a proposal about inserting songs into playlist when the playback is stopped? (Please don't shoot me for the proposal :-) It was yesterday.... I'll look up the exact time... just a moment... |
| 10:48:17 | Llorean | picky: I saw it. |
| 10:48:35 | Llorean | The problem isn't "what should it do". |
| 10:48:44 | picky | scorche: ok, thanks! But I assume 8 GB works without problems. Are there preferred manufacturers? |
| 10:48:58 | Llorean | The problem, for me, was "until it does what most of us agree it should, what measures can we take easily to make it a bit clearer what's happening" |
| 10:49:37 | scorche | picky: look around review sites for speed comparisons and decide by that if you must...i usually just get the cheapest one |
| 10:49:47 | picky | Llorean: Aha! But is there a general agreement on what it should do? If yes, what is it? |
| 10:50:00 | | Quit DerPapst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:50:48 | picky | scorche: so the only difference is the speed? I only need it for my music, no video o the like. So the speed shouldn't e an issue. It should just work. |
| 10:51:04 | Llorean | picky: Stopping should not change anything about how users interact with the playlist, and it shouldn't be cleared without the user explicitly knowing they're clearing it. |
| 10:51:08 | scorche | what other difference are you expecting? |
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| 10:52:25 | picky | Llorean: but do I remember correctly that there was once a talk about it (in the forums?) and you was strongly in favor of the current behaviour? I.e. inserting when stopped = clear playlist and start playback? |
| 10:52:35 | picky | Have you changed your mind since then? |
| 10:53:25 | Llorean | I was strongly against the halfway point that we have now. |
| 10:53:42 | Llorean | Right now, we have inconsistent behaviour. You can view the playlist, but not insert into it. |
| 10:54:02 | picky | Llorean: I mean this thread: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=13003.0 |
| 10:54:45 | | Join pixelma [0] (n=Marianne@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 10:55:02 | picky | A quote: "Then what would be the point of even HAVING a stop function, if the playlist will always act exactly as if it were paused?" |
| 10:55:29 | Llorean | picky: I still stand by that quote. |
| 10:55:53 | Llorean | I don't see what it has to do with anything. If all differences between Stop and Pause are removed, then Stop should be removed. |
| 10:56:03 | Llorean | What exactly is your point, if I may ask? |
| 10:58:20 | picky | Llorean: I try to understand how a "general opinion" is formed in RockBox. Once it was "Insert = clear playlist + start playback", now it's different. |
| 10:58:56 | Bagder | "general opinion" is very vague in general ;-) |
| 10:59:09 | Bagder | I mean, the general part |
| 10:59:30 | Llorean | It can be a "general" opinion if it's among the majority of people who've spoken up so far. |
| 10:59:34 | Llorean | It doesn't actually mean it's what's going to happen. |
| 11:00 |
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| 11:02:37 | picky | Bagder: yes, the general part is too general :-) |
| 11:02:53 | Bagder | yeps |
| 11:03:28 | Gartral | why is there a shortcut creator in rockbox, if it dosnt do anything? |
| 11:03:28 | * | amiconn is strongly in favour of keeping the current behaviour |
| 11:03:39 | Llorean | picky: Whichever method is picked, it's unlikely that there will be an option for either. There's been a tradition of trying to find a single solution to such problems. |
| 11:03:43 | picky | Llorean: yes, I understand that it must become a general opinion among developers, not just the people who have spoken up so far |
| 11:03:57 | picky | But sometimes developers get infected with the masses' opinion :-) |
| 11:04:16 | Bagder | and we're a collection grumpy old devs! |
| 11:04:34 | Bagder | we like it how it was in the old days |
| 11:04:39 | Llorean | picky: Actually, it doesn't have to be a majority decision among developers, always. It's far more complicated than a single vote, and quite sometimes developers will even prefer one way but still side with changing a behaviour for other reasons despite it not being their preference. |
| 11:04:57 | Llorean | -quite |
| 11:04:59 | * | Gartral is strongly in favor of changing the current behavoir |
| 11:05:15 | picky | Llorean: the easiest solution: make it an option (just kidding) |
| 11:05:29 | Llorean | picky: Already said, that almost certainly won't happen. |
| 11:05:46 | * | Llorean is strongly in favour of removing the inconsistencies and ceasing to straddle the line, irrelevant of which direction that moves things. |
| 11:06:14 | Gartral | what does the shortcut optin in toe context menu for folders do? |
| 11:06:51 | Llorean | Gartral: Is that feature not yet covered by the manual? |
| 11:06:54 | * | amiconn can't see any inconsistency in the current behaviour, but likes the convenience of that behaviour |
| 11:07:09 | Llorean | amiconn: The inconsistency is the fact that you can view the current playlist, but not insert into it. |
| 11:07:23 | amiconn | Sure you can insert... just start playback before |
| 11:07:44 | picky | O-je, there was good time when adding a setting wasn't such a big crime. But then it got tougher... :-) |
| 11:07:57 | Llorean | amiconn: how is that *not* confusing to a user, though? |
| 11:08:09 | Gartral | no.. its not |
| 11:08:12 | Llorean | They see the playlist, and the option is named "Insert", the obvious assumption is that it will insert into the playlist. |
| 11:08:18 | pixelma | Llorean: I doubt that the shortcut feature is mentioned in the manual |
| 11:08:29 | Llorean | pixelma: I thought that he'd made a writeup about it. |
| 11:08:30 | amiconn | Llorean: As I said, then rename the option while playback is stopped |
| 11:08:31 | Llorean | I guess not |
| 11:08:43 | Llorean | amiconn: And that is one of the things I'll accept as "removing the inconsistencies" |
| 11:08:54 | amiconn | But that's a minor-minor-minor thing imo |
| 11:09:08 | | Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear) |
| 11:09:17 | Gartral | and whats with delay from hitting enter, and seeing my post your web client? |
| 11:09:28 | Llorean | But it's still confusing to the user. We still get people asking how to "Clear" playlists, and an option called "Clear and Insert" when playback is stopped would certainly help |
| 11:09:28 | amiconn | Especially when compared to the real problems... |
| 11:09:28 | picky | Gartral: it's a shortcut plugin. It's covered in the wiki. I'm not sure that the wiki describes the latest state though. |
| 11:09:44 | Llorean | Gartral: use a real client then... |
| 11:10:49 | Gartral | would i i didnt have 30 megs of ram |
| 11:11:43 | Gartral | i realize it a plugin, but what does it do?!? |
| 11:14:25 | picky | Gartral: look here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginShortcuts |
| 11:15:03 | Gartral | ohh... that may be why i couldnt find it, i was looking in the wrong wiki |
| 11:17:27 | Gartral | ok... i was running under the impression of it set the folder/file up for quick access in the main menu |
| 11:18:18 | Llorean | What other wiki were you looking at? And what gave you that impression, or was it just a random guess? |
| 11:20:20 | | Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 11:20:40 | Gartral | umm, other wiki was sansa e200 wiki, and the impression was it was like a shortcut in any os, it adds the file/folder to the main menu/desktop |
| 11:21:09 | Llorean | What "e200 wiki" are you talking about? |
| 11:21:41 | | Join Buschel [0] (n=AndreeBu@p54A3CA6E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:21:50 | Gartral | the sansa e200 FAQ wiki |
| 11:21:55 | Gartral | dun ask me too look for it, itll take a half hour |
| 11:22:05 | Llorean | Do you just mean the e200 FAQ page in our wiki? |
| 11:22:07 | | Quit picky ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 11:22:41 | Gartral | yes |
| 11:23:17 | Llorean | Just to avoid confusion in the future then, different pages on the same wiki aren't different wikis, they're just different pages. |
| 11:24:19 | Gartral | blah, im trying to type on a kb the size of my thumb |
| 11:24:58 | Llorean | You'll have to type even more if people don't know what you're talking about. ;) |
| 11:25:21 | Gartral | imon a freaking phone! |
| 11:28:56 | | Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 11:31:04 | Gartral | is the shortcut file supposed to be named shortcut.link.lnk? |
| 11:32:16 | Buschel | good morning! |
| 11:32:45 | Buschel | can anyone close fs#8755 or grant the needed rights to me? |
| 11:32:56 | Buschel | i could only request the closure... |
| 11:33:19 | Bagder | Buschel: what's your FS user name? |
| 11:33:28 | Horscht | Andre Buschmann |
| 11:33:33 | Horscht | iirc |
| 11:33:40 | Buschel | Buschel |
| 11:34:02 | Bagder | Buschel: the tracker superpowers are now yours! |
| 11:34:27 | * | Buschel likes to have superpowers :) |
| 11:34:31 | Buschel | let's see |
| 11:34:48 | amiconn | jhMikeS: USEC_TIMER is a true 32 bit counter, both on PP5002 and PP502x |
| 11:35:16 | | Quit amiconn (" bbl") |
| 11:35:29 | * | pixelma wonders about the holes in the build table |
| 11:35:35 | Gartral | would it be hard too implement actual shortcut functionallity too rockbox? |
| 11:36:18 | Buschel | Bagder: thanks, worked fine |
| 11:37:52 | | Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 11:41:21 | Buschel | anything speaking against committing the patch in FS #8651 (fixes possible crash and dropouts during crossfading) |
| 11:42:42 | Llorean | Gartral: Believe it or not, in most OSes, shortcuts work a lot more like the Rockbox ones (simply files that, when invoked, redirect so that a different file is invoked) |
| 11:42:55 | Llorean | Gartral: What you're actually asking for is the ability to alter the main menu, a different concept entirely. |
| 11:43:32 | Gartral | well, n anycase, is it possible? |
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| 11:44:11 | safetydan | Has the build system gone wonky? |
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| 11:45:00 | Llorean | Gartral: Possible yes, likely to happen probably not. |
| 11:46:13 | Gartral | why? if rockbox had that kind of funtionallity, it would greatly expand usability, and user base |
| 11:46:16 | jhMikeS | amiconn: I wonder what the deal was then |
| 11:48:26 | safetydan | Bagder, I think the build system needs poking. |
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| 11:49:18 | bertrik | safetydan: I'll try the fix for 8826 right away |
| 11:49:40 | Llorean | Gartral: Rockbox is designed as a music playback software. Adding function shortcuts to the main menu doesn't really improve that functionality much at all, if any really. |
| 11:49:54 | Llorean | It also creates undesired support and complexity overhead. |
| 11:49:55 | safetydan | bertrik, oh hi, didn't see you there. I don't know if what I committed is actually a fix however. But please do test. |
| 11:54:15 | | Quit BHSPitLappy (Remote closed the connection) |
| 11:54:16 | Gartral | but it would, say a user wanter quicker access to a subdirectory, instead of having to rebuild rockbox too there own specs, they could just add it too the shortcuts file, where it would be parsed and added to the mainmenu |
| 11:55:42 | Llorean | Gartral: They could also just put a shortcut to it in the root of the filesystem. It takes just a couple extra button presses, but doesn't require any added code complexity. |
| 11:57:52 | safetydan | If you want to be organised about it, you could create a shortcuts folder. That way it would be three clicks to any shortcut. Files -> Shortcuts -> Shortcut... |
| 11:58:46 | Llorean | safetydan: I don't know how the paths are coded in the .rock, but you could probably also juts move *it* to the root |
| 11:59:28 | Gartral | but the whole point of rockbox is too make the user experience as streamlined and smooth as possible, and i know a large number of people who would really like access too there favorite places in ther drives without haveing to go through menu after menu too get to it, by saying "its only a few more clicks" your not only self contradicting, you sound like every corporation in america, asking its users too ive wi |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:03 | JdGordon | I wouldnt want the shortcuts in the main menu, but I wouldnt be against having a shorcut to the shorcuts plugin in the menu |
| 12:00:05 | pixelma | and if you set the file browser as start screen |
| 12:00:08 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 12:00:14 | Llorean | Gartral: We don't demand users live with our choices. The source code is made freely available to them. |
| 12:00:39 | bertrik | safetydan: your fix in 16888 seems to work fine, however I just ran into a data abort :( |
| 12:00:44 | Llorean | Gartral: And "the whole point of Rockbox" is to be the best _music player_ it can be. |
| 12:01:04 | * | JdGordon thought it was to play doom on every DAP ever made? |
| 12:01:11 | Gartral | but honestly, i live in lakewood ohio, AKA Flakewood, named for the gay pop. and the amoun people who want things to work without having to understand them |
| 12:01:15 | bertrik | the data abort may be the one that Buschel is chasing right now |
| 12:01:23 | safetydan | bertrik, interesting. What were you doing at the time? |
| 12:01:50 | Llorean | JdGordon: I think a more general solution would be to have a "user folder" of some sort from the main menu, which can contain .link files, .cfgs, .m3us... It's almost like having a customizable menu one level off the main, but not quite. |
| 12:01:59 | Buschel | bertrik: can you give details about the data abort? |
| 12:02:02 | bertrik | not exactly sure anymore, sorry. I was skipping forward and enabling/disabling eq |
| 12:02:12 | JdGordon | Llorean: I'd be happy with that also |
| 12:02:23 | Gartral | thats a fair trade off |
| 12:03:12 | bertrik | Buschel: it says "Data abort at 0000850C (0)" |
| 12:03:34 | * | JdGordon joins in the wondergin whast up with the builds... |
| 12:04:09 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:04:35 | bertrik | Buschel: according to the .map file and arm-elf-addr2line, that's in buffering.c, function add_handle |
| 12:04:45 | Llorean | Gartral: But please, never try to use the "you should do what the users want" argument. The users aren't doing the work, the developers are. It's their free time that goes into this project, so they're going to decide the direction. |
| 12:05:06 | Buschel | betrik: hmm, that's not the data abort i worked on |
| 12:05:08 | Llorean | Sometimes it'll be the same as what the users want, sometimes it won't. But the users get it for free, nobody had to give it away. And the users have the source, if they really want change badly enough. |
| 12:05:20 | Gartral | i wasnt asking you follow what i say, i was stating my argument |
| 12:05:34 | safetydan | bertrik, Buschel, it's possible that switching in and out of low latency mode a lot might be problematic |
| 12:05:57 | Llorean | Gartral: One of your "arguments" was that it would expand user base... |
| 12:06:58 | Gartral | wich it would |
| 12:08:01 | Llorean | And my point was "users want it" isn't a particularly good argument here. You haven't done any polling, in the first place, and in the second "what developers prefer" almost always trumps it. That's all I was trying to say. |
| 12:09:43 | Gartral | ok, and thats a fair argument, witch i answer with another: saying what you said; what makes you, in your place, any better than the corporations that designed the dap your trying to open? |
| 12:10:01 | Gartral | daps* |
| 12:10:17 | Llorean | Gartral: We release the source code, so that anyone who is unhappy with our choices can make their own. I've already said that. |
| 12:10:27 | JdGordon | Gartral: we never said we are... |
| 12:11:27 | Llorean | JdGordon: I did, and still do. We don't force our opinions on the users. They can choose to use our software, or they can choose to put in the same effort to modify it. It's not like modifying it came free to your or me either, we had to learn the skills in much the same way a user would have to. |
| 12:11:47 | Llorean | But if they're getting it for free, and they're voluntarily using it, I don't see them as being "forced" in any way. |
| 12:12:04 | JdGordon | we _Are_ forcing our opinions on users though |
| 12:12:14 | JdGordon | the fact we give them more options doesnt mean we arnt |
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| 12:12:27 | JdGordon | the majority arnt compiniling their own builds |
| 12:12:42 | Llorean | JdGordon: How is that forced though? They have absolute freedom to compile their own builds. |
| 12:13:02 | Llorean | Where, at any point, do we remove their ability to choose? |
| 12:13:34 | JdGordon | only the ones which have the skill can do anything different in their custom builds... |
| 12:14:10 | Llorean | JdGordon: And? What does that have to do with it. You had to learn how to code before you could make your choices. They have to learn how to code before they can make theirs. I still don't see them as being treated at all unfairly or with force. |
| 12:15:03 | bertrik | Buschel, safetydan: I'll try the data abort with 16890 |
| 12:15:12 | JdGordon | Arg, whatever.. its a moot point anyway... we know we do this for us and not users... |
| 12:15:36 | JdGordon | 3rd time lucky with the builds? |
| 12:15:42 | safetydan | bertrik, I just spent about five minutes switching in and out of the equalizer settings and didn't see a data abort. This is on a H120 though |
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| 12:17:00 | bertrik | safetydan: yeah, it's kinda hard to reproduce, I'll keep this setting for the next few days and see if it happens again |
| 12:18:43 | Gartral | i love rockbox, i just wish the devs where a little more public friendly |
| 12:18:47 | | Join handmadematters [0] (n=handmade@dslb-084-056-206-006.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:20:04 | damunix | hi |
| 12:21:08 | handmadematters | Just followed the IRC while drinking my coffee... and think its the right moment to say "I am very thankful to the developers... and dont understand the whole thing discussed here... Rockbox is constantly improving and all deciciosions seemed to me logical steps... one by one... ANY WAY GOOOOOD MORNING ;-)" |
| 12:22:17 | * | JdGordon takes handmadematters's coffee away.... no more caffeenee for you till lunch! |
| 12:22:32 | handmadematters | ;-) |
| 12:22:55 | Gartral | true, rockbox rocks, i am thankfull for its devs, i just simpl wish they were more open too ideas passed too them from the public |
| 12:23:31 | bertrik | there's lots of different ideas and only so many developers |
| 12:23:48 | * | Gartral walks by JdGordon and steals handmadematters coffee back too give to him |
| 12:24:02 | JdGordon | I missed the start of this particular one... but a fair bit of it is how the idea is brought forward... we usually are fairly nice with new ideas... |
| 12:24:23 | JdGordon | not so nice when the person thinks its new but its just been regurgitated from a few weeks ago |
| 12:25:15 | Gartral | mm, im new too using rockbox, so excuse me if im not completely up too speed |
| 12:26:30 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: wanna reply to the dev ml gsoc question thread about your idea for the software mixer thingy for playback? he sounds like someone who might have what it takes... |
| 12:28:24 | jhMikeS | where's that? |
| 12:29:03 | Llorean | Gartral: Your idea has been discussed on and off for years. It's not an issue of "being less open", it's an issue of "it's been talked about ALOT already", and you're hearing 'we've made up our minds before' as a new rejection, rather than the fact that we did talk about it, for a long time, first. |
| 12:29:14 | Llorean | Gartral: No matter how open you are, you have to reject *some* ideas. |
| 12:29:31 | jhMikeS | never mind - typing and carrying on a conversation with someone makes me not notice "dev ml" :p |
| 12:30:02 | Gartral | this is true, i didnt relise this is something that was descussed before |
| 12:30:49 | Gartral | i though it was a fresher idea, since something so powerful didnt have a feature i think would be common sens to include |
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| 12:35:47 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: sounds like more like a person up to designing a high quality resampler |
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| 12:52:57 | DefineByte | Any peeps involved with the manual willing to commit FS #8715? |
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| 12:58:29 | baobab68 | hi all |
| 12:58:37 | | Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 12:58:56 | DefineByte | hi :) |
| 12:59:39 | baobab68 | jhMikeS: you about? i've been recommended to come discuss thread priorities with you |
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| 13:00 |
| 13:00:07 | jhMikeS | baobab68: sure |
| 13:00:47 | baobab68 | well i am yet to try the latest builds but the SVN activity reported on the main page sounds promising. |
| 13:01:22 | baobab68 | i am using an H320 and for some time now, with various daily builds, there has been a conflict between various activities during startup |
| 13:01:56 | jhMikeS | what do you mean by "conflict"? |
| 13:02:35 | baobab68 | if resume playback is turned on, the buffering thread and dircache and the buffering the database to RAM all thrash the disk and CPU. Thing is, I'm pretty sure they didn't used to, once upon a time... |
| 13:03:12 | baobab68 | eg, with resume playback, dircache of 9500 tracks takes 35+ seconds. without resume playback, 4 seconds. |
| 13:04:07 | baobab68 | i just turned off resume playback, as i figure it amounts to less disk activity if I just let the dircache and database get themselves done, and then resume playback manually |
| 13:04:22 | jhMikeS | dircache is a background activity and playback gets priority (and more CPU cycles) that than |
| 13:04:32 | jhMikeS | *than that |
| 13:05:27 | baobab68 | is that new with your recent commits? (ie, I should try a more recent build?) |
| 13:06:05 | jhMikeS | no, it's been that way since priorities were first introduced |
| 13:07:00 | baobab68 | ok. it all sort of feels related to this thread too: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=15875.0 |
| 13:08:15 | damunix | Hi. I would like to have more informations about the summer of code project, is there any "mentor" ? |
| 13:08:40 | baobab68 | to me, it feels like things "changed" when the ring buffer and metadata on buffer came in. (which I totally looked forward to so much when they were announced) |
| 13:08:43 | Bagder | damunix: there are several |
| 13:08:47 | damunix | :) |
| 13:09:02 | damunix | I see a post on dlfp (french website) |
| 13:09:25 | Bagder | damunix: you submit your idea of project and how to do it and you will get two mentors assigned from rockbox, should we decide your project is fine enough |
| 13:10:02 | damunix | do you know if lots of student send ideas ? |
| 13:10:06 | * | petur wonders if anybody is going to answer the application question on the ML |
| 13:10:09 | Bagder | btw, we got another "mobile app" application |
| 13:10:40 | * | Bagder intends to reply |
| 13:10:45 | BigBambi | damunix: Could you send me a link? I don't see the post |
| 13:11:33 | damunix | of ? |
| 13:11:39 | jhMikeS | baobab68: The playback engine needs a good service call and it's sensitive to timing changes in that changing some scheduling aspect results in different outcomes. That really shouldn't be the case but unfortunately it is right now. |
| 13:11:55 | Bagder | damunix: currently we have 6 application submitted |
| 13:12:03 | BigBambi | damunix: The article on dlfp |
| 13:12:13 | Bagder | last year we had 20 when the application period ended |
| 13:12:15 | damunix | http://linuxfr.org/2008/03/30/23915.html |
| 13:12:21 | BigBambi | merci |
| 13:12:48 | damunix | pleasure |
| 13:12:57 | baobab68 | jhMikeS: thank you for the info. i am hoping that the scheduler changes you have made are going to help, bit by bit. would it be possible for playback to yield totally for the first 10 seconds or something? :-) |
| 13:13:11 | baobab68 | I know most ppl wouldn't want that. |
| 13:13:23 | moos | BigBambi: well posted by Nico_P ;) |
| 13:13:28 | BigBambi | yep :) |
| 13:17:52 | jhMikeS | baobab68: playback is meant to start playing as soon as asked. that would be more of a "resume delay". |
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| 13:23:35 | moos | Bagder: nice answer to ML, even if you miss to invite him here to speak with dsp men preglow, jhMikeS... |
| 13:23:41 | moos | ;) |
| 13:25:17 | | Quit bertrik ("bye") |
| 13:29:18 | * | jhMikeS wrote a response but sent it to JdGordon first (since I suck at being an organization's front-end and he asked me to reply :p). Was more of a specific suggestion if that's even appropriate to do. |
| 13:30:25 | JdGordon | I just replied to your email btw.. |
| 13:30:26 | moos | hehe :) |
| 13:31:37 | baobab68 | jhMikeS: thanks for the feedback, will keep an eye on things as the commits progress. |
| 13:32:12 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: guess I'll post it...why not...sounds dry enough. :) |
| 13:32:26 | JdGordon | wont do any harm |
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| 13:34:38 | damunix | Bagder: just a question : do you have the link where I can submit my ideas ? |
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| 14:04:06 | BigBambi | damunix: You could post to the developers mailing list, or discuss in here I guess |
| 14:04:14 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:04:35 | BigBambi | damunix: http://www.rockbox.org/mail/ |
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| 14:10:53 | stripwax | I recall that misaligned reads&writes on linux for Arm generate a signal that gets handled by the kernel (I think) to silently round the addresses appropriately, and you get an output in dmesg too. Does rockbox have any such issues or are all pointer indirections required to be correctly aligned? |
| 14:14:06 | amiconn | Pointers must be correctly aligned on ARM and SH, as required by those architectures |
| 14:15:33 | amiconn | Unaligned pointers are a bug, and it's not the duty of the kernel to work around such bugs. If it would silently align the address, it would access the wrong data |
| 14:15:35 | stripwax | If they're not aligned, will rockbox just throw an exception? |
| 14:15:44 | amiconn | yes |
| 14:15:48 | stripwax | ok |
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| 14:17:09 | amiconn | Coldfire does allow unaligned accesses, and they work as normal, the only penalty being some extra cycles (1 or 2, depending on the width of the access and the type of misalignment) |
| 14:18:55 | mrkiko | Can someone explain me what exactly is an "misaligned" access? |
| 14:19:10 | mrkiko | Pointing me to an URL if needed; I know concepts of pointers and memory addressing. |
| 14:19:21 | stripwax | amiconn - in that case presumably we don't have much code in rockbox that requires unaligned accesses since it would fail to run on arm targets |
| 14:19:42 | | Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:20:18 | amiconn | Well, the database uses this. There is a separate macro (something with STRICT_ALIGN). If that's not defined, the database packs its structs as tight as possible, saving RAM |
| 14:20:49 | linuxstb | stripwax: gcc takes care of it most of the time (by aligning things). The issues are things like accessing a char array as int, in which case the char array must be aligned to 4 bytes. |
| 14:20:59 | stripwax | mrkiko - e.g. *(unsigned long *)(0x01234567) - where address is not a multiple of the data size |
| 14:21:44 | amiconn | linuxstb: It's also an issue if a struct uses __attribute__((packed)) |
| 14:21:45 | mrkiko | ah ok |
| 14:21:48 | mrkiko | clear |
| 14:21:53 | amiconn | Some usb structs do this |
| 14:21:58 | mrkiko | Thank you! |
| 14:22:12 | stripwax | linuxstb - that's the sort of thing I had in mind. I *think* the linux kernel still lets you do that unaligned, by rounding the addresses (and doing multiple reads/writes and shifting as appropriate) but there's obviously a hit for that. Was hoping rockbox has no such nonsense |
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| 14:27:26 | stripwax | (and it sounds like it does not have any such automatic fixups, so that's cool). There's no penalty being hidden, basically |
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| 14:28:56 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: you got a bite :) |
| 14:30:31 | stripwax | :) |
| 14:31:07 | mrkiko | Why can't I find voice files where they have been in the daily build section? |
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| 14:35:22 | Gartral | QQ: whats the status of the new usb stacks for controlling the internal memory? |
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| 14:38:08 | DerPapst | Gartral: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PortalPlayerUsb |
| 14:39:36 | mrkiko | Can someone send me the voice files url? |
| 14:40:25 | pixelma | mrkiko: I think it's currently broken... |
| 14:41:55 | PaulJam | if you follow the "old" link below the target, there is still a download link for the english.voice. |
| 14:42:18 | Gartral | thats not much help, i was asking about the redyness of the (if existent) possible fixes? |
| 14:42:19 | domonoky | jup, voice download seems to be broken, but you can generate a voicefile yourself with rbutil or the build enviroment.. |
| 14:43:11 | DerPapst | Gartral: it's ready but it has some major issues as the page stated. |
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| 14:49:06 | Gartral | right, as for the readyness OF SAID BUGFIXES |
| 14:49:19 | Gartral | oops, sorry about caps |
| 14:49:20 | DerPapst | there aren'T any. |
| 14:49:57 | DerPapst | if there were, they would heve been included in SVN and removed from the wiki page. |
| 14:50:04 | Gartral | whats with the big chain of gobbledy gook at the login on this channel? |
| 14:51:02 | | Join MethoS [0] (n=clemens@host-091-096-213-218.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 14:51:11 | Horscht | you mean the topic? |
| 14:51:17 | Horscht | what about it? |
| 14:52:35 | | Join framo [0] (n=framo@bb-87-80-66-156.ukonline.co.uk) |
| 14:52:55 | | Join mimimati [0] (n=mimimati@laf31-4-82-229-231-80.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:55:10 | * | domonoky sees now 2 useable gsoc applications for rockbox (out of 8 applications) .. |
| 14:55:22 | DerPapst | 8 already... |
| 14:55:27 | Gartral | [08:48] *** Gartral csc` stripwax hannesd DerPapst domonoky goffa Chipsaru XavierGr jhMikeS bughunter2 Cazou amiconn miepchen^schlaf gregzx Thundercloud ch4os_ mf0102 nplus moos PaulJam petur FOAD Lear pixelma lee-qid Horscht ender` ompaul davina Zarggg_ Rob2223 hd tedrock InHisName DerDome SirFunk Pio__ mokkurkalve BumAz cbr|w fyre^OS mrkiko linuxstb_ linuxstb axionix preglow nikosapi TaylorKillian Nevtus Raven |
| 14:55:33 | Gartral | noo... after the topic |
| 14:55:41 | ender` | ? |
| 14:55:46 | * | DerPapst missed some |
| 14:55:46 | bughunter2 | Gartral: what? |
| 14:55:50 | DerPapst | lol |
| 14:55:59 | Gartral | scroll all the way up, youll see it |
| 14:56:08 | bughunter2 | ? |
| 14:56:10 | domonoky | Gartral: thats your irc client telling you whos is online.. and you awakend now the hole channel.. :-) |
| 14:56:15 | Horscht | sounds like your client is showing you all the connected nicks |
| 14:56:16 | DerPapst | Gartral: the web client lists all users online |
| 14:56:18 | FOAD | Hey, wassup :P |
| 14:56:18 | pixelma | that's the "members list" compare to the list on the right |
| 14:56:23 | Gartral | thats what im asking, what does it all mean? its at the top of your channel, not mine |
| 14:56:32 | Gartral | ahh |
| 14:56:33 | bughunter2 | no it's not, it's your IRC client |
| 14:56:39 | Horscht | no, it's on top of your client, not our chan |
| 14:56:59 | Gartral | that explains why theres not one sensible english word in there |
| 14:57:15 | bughunter2 | it's the nicknames of who is online |
| 14:57:16 | DerPapst | domonoky: what is the 2nd usefull app? |
| 14:57:23 | bughunter2 | if you don't undrstand your IRC client, then ask them, not us |
| 14:57:35 | bughunter2 | or use something which gives you a more fuzzy and warm feeling |
| 14:57:38 | Gartral | im useing your webclient, so yes, its at the top of your channel, in your client, not mine |
| 14:57:56 | bughunter2 | alright i stop feeding this troll |
| 14:57:57 | domonoky | real audio support... but the student needs to put more info in the app, but this is better than rfid freigh trackning with rockbox :-) |
| 14:58:19 | Gartral | im sorry, im not in a good mood |
| 14:58:20 | DerPapst | ;-) |
| 14:58:48 | * | Gartral gestures too shake bughunter2's hand |
| 14:59:03 | * | bughunter2 gives Gartral a handshake and says "We're friends again." |
| 14:59:05 | bughunter2 | lol |
| 14:59:12 | * | Horscht stabs both |
| 14:59:15 | bughunter2 | ahhaha |
| 14:59:18 | * | DerPapst runs out of milestones :-/ |
| 14:59:35 | * | Gartral bites Horscht |
| 14:59:47 | * | DerPapst goes to buy some new milestones |
| 14:59:52 | Horscht | great now I am a werewolf |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:05 | Gartral | no, your a kitsune |
| 15:00:22 | domonoky | Horscht, Gartral please stay on topic :-) |
| 15:00:32 | Gartral | NO! lol |
| 15:01:28 | Gartral | tw, why was i disconnected earlyer? |
| 15:01:44 | Gartral | btw* |
| 15:02:01 | DerPapst | bad connection? maybe your isp hates you. |
| 15:02:05 | | Join piga [0] (n=leonardo@200-161-98-93.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 15:02:07 | DerPapst | like mine does. |
| 15:02:17 | Gartral | whos your isp? |
| 15:02:21 | ender` | web-based clients are problematic... |
| 15:02:39 | Gartral | this is one of the better ones for shure though |
| 15:04:20 | * | DerPapst thinks he might be done with his app proposal. Let's review and spellcheck :-) |
| 15:06:55 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-096-213-218.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 15:07:37 | Gartral | how hard would it be too implement a built in (or build a host computer based/addin to rbutil) audio transcoder? |
| 15:08:30 | domonoky | Gartral: why would you need this ? rockbox plays nearly all audio codecs .. |
| 15:09:23 | Gartral | for the porpus of killing the mp3 corporate built codec |
| 15:09:26 | Gartral | and besides. i like my ogg vornis |
| 15:09:36 | Gartral | vorbis* |
| 15:09:40 | Llorean | Transcoding kills quality anyway. |
| 15:09:50 | BigBambi | There are many PC side encoders/transcoders already, and as for Rockbox side, a) Rockbox already plays a huge number - and would need to be able to play any it could transcode, and b) it would be very slow compared to on a PC |
| 15:09:56 | PaulJam | transcoding from one lossy format to another is bad. |
| 15:10:16 | ender` | not just bad, also pointless |
| 15:10:28 | BigBambi | And yes, lossy to lossy reduces quality a lot |
| 15:10:38 | ender` | especially if you're doing it on a portable |
| 15:11:04 | domonoky | BigBambi: he suggested rbutil, so this is PC, but i dont see much use in it, as there are many audio transcoders out there, and it isnt a rb specific task.. |
| 15:11:24 | BigBambi | domonoky: He suggested both |
| 15:11:27 | Gartral | yes, but there are those of us (who for whatever reason) never had/lost there original cds, and all there songs were encoded into a drm encryppled codec, and we dont like drm encrypplment |
| 15:11:31 | | Join lee-qid_ [0] (n=liqid@p54964B83.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:11:52 | BigBambi | domonoky: <Gartral> how hard would it be too implement a built in (or build a host computer based/addin to rbutil) audio transcoder? |
| 15:12:11 | | Quit lee-qid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:12:20 | BigBambi | domonoky: But I agree, both are pointless and not Rockbox specific |
| 15:12:28 | Gartral | having one right in rbutil would be nice though |
| 15:12:50 | amiconn | Rockbox doesn't support drm. This is both a requirement, and a philosophy. |
| 15:12:56 | domonoky | ah, now i see... yes its pointless, just use on of those thousands audio transcoders out there :-) |
| 15:13:12 | BigBambi | yup :) |
| 15:14:10 | Gartral | but none handle DRMed media to non drm |
| 15:14:15 | | Join MethoS-- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-096-212-161.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 15:14:32 | Gartral | im asking for one the deDRMs a file |
| 15:14:45 | BigBambi | Gartral: And nor would we, even if (a very big if) there were to be a Rockbox transcoder |
| 15:14:54 | BigBambi | Gartral: And that is off topic |
| 15:15:11 | BigBambi | Gartral: <amiconn> Rockbox doesn't support drm. This is both a requirement, and a philosophy. |
| 15:15:12 | PaulJam | Gartral: rbutil wouldn't be able to handle DRM content either because it's open source |
| 15:15:28 | gibbon_ | not so long ago, amiconn made astatement about drm... i think it was about 2 minutes ago :P |
| 15:15:47 | Gartral | RIGHT THATS WHY I WANT A TRANSCODER THAT REMOVES DRM RULES FROM A FREAKING FILE |
| 15:16:01 | BigBambi | Which we will NOT do |
| 15:16:13 | domonoky | Gartral: this channel is not the right place to ask such things.. |
| 15:16:13 | BigBambi | So stop being off topic and take it somewhere else |
| 15:16:25 | Gartral | ok, do you know of wher i can get one?\ |
| 15:16:28 | BigBambi | NO |
| 15:16:40 | Gartral | ok, im sorry i asked |
| 15:16:43 | BigBambi | Gartral: This channel is for Rockbox only |
| 15:17:07 | Horscht | removing DRM is not legal in many countries |
| 15:17:51 | Gartral | neither is hacking an xbox, but that never truley stoped anyone |
| 15:17:58 | Horscht | there are windows tools, afaik, but I don't realy care. I don't like or use DRM |
| 15:18:17 | BigBambi | Look, this isn't on-topic for here, lets drop it |
| 15:18:34 | Gartral | right, neither do i, but i have a lot of files that are drmed, because my parents dont know any better |
| 15:19:07 | Horscht | well then, use google |
| 15:19:13 | BigBambi | Horscht: Drop it |
| 15:20:14 | Horscht | ok |
| 15:20:21 | | Quit MethoS (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 15:20:34 | Bagder | 8 gsoc proposals |
| 15:20:47 | JdGordon | 1 good one :'( |
| 15:20:55 | DerPapst | i thought 2 |
| 15:20:59 | BigBambi | Bagder: What are the latest? |
| 15:21:02 | Llorean | Bagder: Don't we have one or two in the wings still? People who haven't filed formally? |
| 15:21:04 | DerPapst | the theme editor and the rm codec |
| 15:21:11 | Bagder | Llorean: yes |
| 15:21:24 | Bagder | and it seems there's an extension coming up |
| 15:21:29 | Llorean | Hopefully |
| 15:21:46 | Llorean | There were a few very good reasons for not extending it, too. Summer jobs and all that. |
| 15:22:09 | Bagder | yes |
| 15:22:33 | | Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) |
| 15:22:44 | domonoky | yes, i think there are at least 2 or 3 applications still in work :-) |
| 15:22:53 | * | DerPapst hopes the dsp guy is hurrying up |
| 15:23:01 | * | Llorean was really rooting on as-an-app turning up. |
| 15:23:21 | * | amiconn would deem a good resampler much more important than a theme editor |
| 15:23:41 | * | Gartral agrees |
| 15:23:51 | BigBambi | Nico_P: See there was already someone here after your dlfp post? :) |
| 15:24:00 | Bagder | amiconn: I'd like to see both |
| 15:24:28 | Nico_P | BigBambi: really? I'll read the logs |
| 15:24:30 | * | JdGordon has no idea what the resampler does, but all those big words in jhMikeS' reply sounds good ! :p |
| 15:24:41 | Gartral | both would be nice, but i wouldnt complain if the resampler hit public four months eearlier than the theme editor |
| 15:25:03 | amiconn | The current resampler is plain crap at low input sample rates |
| 15:25:08 | BigBambi | Nico_P: about 13.08 CET |
| 15:25:15 | * | Llorean has no idea how much actual work goes into a good resampler. |
| 15:25:36 | Gartral | about 9-12 months of man hours |
| 15:25:39 | * | DerPapst finishis his app today to convice google rockbox needs more slots, even if his isn't chosen at the end :-) |
| 15:25:56 | Nico_P | ah, found it :) |
| 15:26:17 | | Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/staff/bluebrother) |
| 15:27:36 | pixelma | Bagder: do you have an idea why there are no "voice" links on the "daily build and voices" page? |
| 15:27:57 | | Join bertrik [0] (n=Bertrik_@182-015-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) |
| 15:28:04 | Bagder | hm, I better check |
| 15:28:22 | Llorean | Gartral: In that case it seems far too large of a project for a SoC app. But somehow I don't think you were serious, and suggest you remember this is an on-topic channel. |
| 15:28:50 | Gartral | ok, other than there being nogcc compiler for it, why was the ipod shuffles left out of rockbox development? |
| 15:29:01 | BigBambi | That is a pretty major reason |
| 15:29:18 | BigBambi | What is the point of writing code if you can't compile and therefore run it? |
| 15:29:21 | domonoky | Gartral: how would you write code without a compiler ? |
| 15:29:36 | amiconn | In asm.... |
| 15:29:43 | BigBambi | heh] |
| 15:29:44 | Gartral | you can.. build a compiler yourself? |
| 15:29:47 | DerPapst | write binrary |
| 15:29:56 | BigBambi | Gartral: Feel free |
| 15:29:58 | Gartral | that too |
| 15:30:12 | domonoky | Gartral: go for it, it will be only 6-12 Months :-) |
| 15:30:13 | DerPapst | </bad_joke> |
| 15:30:18 | Gartral | if someone would donate there shuffle, ide be glad too |
| 15:30:25 | Cazou | Hi |
| 15:30:32 | BigBambi | Gartral: Rockbox is ported by interested owners, not by a team |
| 15:30:44 | Bagder | Gartral: if we'd think you could do it, we'd buy one for you... |
| 15:30:58 | Cazou | what environment would you advice to build rockbox on linux ? |
| 15:31:01 | Gartral | and how do you know that i can't? |
| 15:31:08 | BigBambi | Cazou: Native |
| 15:31:19 | BigBambi | Cazou: You just need to build the cross compilers |
| 15:31:21 | gibbon_ | Cazou: sunny sky, perhaps trees ;) |
| 15:31:26 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 15:31:33 | BigBambi | Cazou: For which there is a handy script in the source |
| 15:31:38 | Bagder | Gartral: because you haven't shown us anything that would make at least me believe that |
| 15:32:18 | | Quit Gartral ("CGI:IRC") |
| 15:32:26 | | Join Gartral [0] (n=4b214de8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e1c6cbb334cb607e) |
| 15:32:50 | Cazou | I'm on gentoo, I cross compiled gcc for arm |
| 15:32:50 | gibbon_ | Cazou: most uncomplicated build system ever, you find the 2documentation" in the toos/ folder of the svn |
| 15:33:10 | Cazou | but it's version 4.3.0 |
| 15:33:17 | BigBambi | Cazou: Rockbox requires (well, recommends certian versions) of the cross compiler for each architecture |
| 15:33:19 | Bagder | Cazou: you really shouldn't go that path |
| 15:33:48 | Horscht | isn't the fact that the shuffles don't have a display also a major reason why they are left out? |
| 15:33:50 | domonoky | Cazou: just run that rockboxdev.sh script in the tools folder, it will build you the correct compilers. |
| 15:33:56 | BigBambi | Cazou: The rockboxdev script will get you recommended versions, install recquired patches etc |
| 15:34:10 | Bagder | Horscht: well, we have a voice ui so it could still be working on it |
| 15:34:11 | | Join madhatter_ [0] (n=madhatte@APoitiers-259-1-34-113.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 15:34:19 | JdGordon | Horscht: on the contrary... they would prove how good our voice ui is |
| 15:34:22 | Cazou | ok, thank you |
| 15:34:51 | DerPapst | At least the M3 doesn't have a main LCD. Only an LCD remote. |
| 15:35:18 | Horscht | ah, the voice ui. admitedly, I was impressed to see that rockbox has something like that, but also turned it off after 1 Minute of trying it |
| 15:35:24 | Gartral | Horsch: are you awear that trying to tab the rest of your name fails? |
| 15:35:42 | DerPapst | Horscht |
| 15:35:44 | DerPapst | meh |
| 15:35:49 | DerPapst | i hate my return button |
| 15:35:51 | BigBambi | Gartral: With the CGI client you need to use the first letter only then complete |
| 15:35:52 | JdGordon | it would be a massive PITA to actually get rockbox to compile for no lcd though |
| 15:35:55 | domonoky | Gartral: again you client.. :-) |
| 15:36:10 | Gartral | ahh |
| 15:36:14 | Cazou | also, I own an Archos 404, will it ever be supported ? |
| 15:36:16 | BigBambi | Gartral: It works fine for every nick with a proper client |
| 15:36:24 | Bagder | Cazou: if you make the port it could! |
| 15:36:28 | domonoky | Cazou: only if you port it.. :-) |
| 15:36:34 | BigBambi | Cazou: If interested owners do it, sure |
| 15:36:37 | Gartral | hannesd: it gave me that name, out of H |
| 15:36:52 | bertrik | what is the cheapest player that rockbox could run on (e.g. PP502x based) but that has no rockbox port yet? |
| 15:36:56 | Cazou | ok, let's gsoc before ;) |
| 15:37:13 | Cazou | that seems to be a too big project for gsoc |
| 15:37:30 | Cazou | but I'm interrested in the scummVM project |
| 15:37:41 | Bagder | bertrik: probably one of the PP ones on the mi4 page but you would of course need to hunt down a used one |
| 15:37:49 | Gartral | i know the cheapest i can get a sansa e200 is $30 |
| 15:37:53 | pixelma | Gartral: in the webclient it only works with the first letter followed by multiple tab, so it would be H<tab><tab>... until the right nick pops up |
| 15:37:57 | bluebrother | Gartral: the client cycles if you hit tab multiple times ... it only requires you to type only the first character |
| 15:38:02 | domonoky | porting to a new player is a bit big and risky project for gsoc .. |
| 15:38:07 | BigBambi | pixelma: I already beat you :P |
| 15:38:40 | pixelma | BigBambi: wouldn't understand your explanation .p |
| 15:38:46 | pixelma | err... :P |
| 15:38:49 | Gartral | ahh |
| 15:38:51 | Bagder | domonoky: indeed, but to one the mi4 based PP targets it is somewhat smaller |
| 15:38:55 | Cazou | domonoky: that's what I thought |
| 15:39:07 | * | pixelma blames keyboard (especially that damn shift key) |
| 15:39:13 | BigBambi | pixelma: meh, perfectly clear :) |
| 15:39:37 | * | bluebrother hands pixelma a shift key |
| 15:40:20 | Cazou | but isn't porting, not for gsoc, a risk to brick the Archos ? |
| 15:40:24 | Gartral | so when is there going to be a calender for DAPs that have a RTC? |
| 15:40:26 | | Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|zzz (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 15:40:43 | Cazou | is there any jtag port to reprogram it ? |
| 15:40:59 | Cazou | I open it tonight \o/ |
| 15:41:11 | DerPapst | Cazou: that would be something you'd have to figure out. |
| 15:41:18 | domonoky | Gartral: when you code it :-) |
| 15:41:19 | BigBambi | Gartral: When someone writes one that works on all appropriate targets |
| 15:41:21 | bluebrother | Cazou: that completely depends on the player. The Ipods f.e. are almost unbrickable |
| 15:41:26 | bertrik | Gartral: the sansa e200 (at least the V1) is already ported |
| 15:41:33 | Bagder | and we're now down to 7 applications... |
| 15:41:34 | bluebrother | (unless you program the hardware to burn itself of course ;-) |
| 15:41:47 | DerPapst | Bagder: rejected one? |
| 15:42:09 | Gartral | i would if i wasnt reduced too using libray comps to cude on |
| 15:42:18 | amiconn | bertrik: Maybe you could pick up the Elio port (including the Elio) from linuxstb? |
| 15:42:22 | Bagder | it seems he withdrew it himself |
| 15:42:24 | * | domonoky clicked the ineglible button on the rfid one.. :-) |
| 15:42:39 | Bagder | ah yes that's the one |
| 15:42:41 | Cazou | Ok, I'll try to figure it out tonight |
| 15:42:41 | | Quit Gartral ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 15:42:56 | domonoky | it just sorted under ineglible instead of open.. |
| 15:43:08 | DerPapst | and waht do i do with my rfid sickers now? |
| 15:43:14 | Cazou | if it's not too risky, I'll be part of the project with certitude. |
| 15:43:15 | bluebrother | what rfid thing= |
| 15:43:23 | domonoky | DerPapst: track freight :-) |
| 15:43:33 | madhatter_ | hi, I'm about to receive an ipod touch and I'm interested in porting rockbox on it. Is some work had begin ? Where I can find it ? |
| 15:43:55 | BigBambi | madhatter_: Check out the thread in the New Ports forum |
| 15:44:03 | madhatter_ | ok thanks ;) |
| 15:44:29 | DerPapst | that would be an rockbox as app approach... |
| 15:45:03 | | Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@195-144-092-164.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be) |
| 15:45:15 | DerPapst | morning gevaerts :-) |
| 15:45:17 | Cazou | bye the way, I saw on linux-fr that you were looking for student, if I apply tonight, wouldn't it be too late ? |
| 15:45:24 | | Quit piga (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 15:45:32 | Cazou | It would be for scummVM port |
| 15:45:34 | Bagder | Cazou: you have till the 31st of march |
| 15:45:38 | DerPapst | nope not to late |
| 15:45:39 | gevaerts | morning DerPapst :) |
| 15:45:48 | domonoky | Cazou: go for it.. |
| 15:46:00 | Horscht | ScummVM on my DAP: awesomeness |
| 15:46:06 | Cazou | yes but some organization do not like it when it comes 1 day before the end |
| 15:46:17 | BigBambi | Well the earlier the better |
| 15:46:17 | DerPapst | rockbox always needs more apps ;-) |
| 15:46:20 | Bagder | ScummVM is C++ afaik |
| 15:46:24 | Cazou | ok, I'll work on it so |
| 15:46:31 | Bagder | so it'll present some challenges |
| 15:46:33 | BigBambi | More time for feedback from the mentors etc |
| 15:46:34 | Horscht | those organizations probably have to deal with a big ammount of apps |
| 15:46:47 | domonoky | Cazou: ofcourse we would like to have the apps early, but we still need more.. so go for it and apply.. |
| 15:46:53 | | Join piga [0] (n=leonardo@200-161-96-35.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 15:46:57 | Cazou | yes, I got that info from KDE |
| 15:47:16 | Bagder | "00:00 UTC April 1, 2008" is the deadline actually |
| 15:47:36 | Horscht | I never get UTC |
| 15:48:06 | Cazou | yeah well, at google's, it changes often |
| 15:49:40 | DerPapst | All LCD remotes are greyscale aren't they? |
| 15:49:58 | Bagder | some are single bitmap |
| 15:50:00 | domonoky | DerPapst: yes, till now .. :-) |
| 15:50:09 | Horscht | oh, Zulu time |
| 15:50:09 | Cazou | I hope I'll have enough time to discover rockbox sources and see how it can be done. |
| 15:50:15 | BigBambi | Are not the iriver ones monochrome? |
| 15:50:16 | Horscht | why didn't you say so :p |
| 15:50:45 | * | DerPapst goes verifying |
| 15:51:37 | bluebrother | BigBambi: at least the h100 remote is. |
| 15:51:48 | Bagder | it's the same one they use for the h300 |
| 15:51:50 | DerPapst | yes. all iriver remotes are monorome |
| 15:51:52 | BigBambi | That means H30o too |
| 15:52:16 | DerPapst | only the iaudio have 4 shades |
| 15:55:05 | | Quit hannesd (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 15:56:55 | | Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.) |
| 15:57:04 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23F422.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:57:08 | | Quit lee-qid_ ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara") |
| 15:57:08 | | Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) |
| 15:57:14 | | Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 15:59:40 | bertrik | amiconn: I feel that if someone gives me a player to port, I have to really commit to it and I can't promise that (due to day job + other fun hack projects). |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:33 | bertrik | I'll have a closer look at the new ports forum and the mi4 list on bagder's page |
| 16:02:26 | gevaerts | I received an email reply from the "usablity study" guy who contacted some mentors by mail. He seems not to have CCed the others any more. Should I forward this to -dev, to -committers, or to all mentors individually ? I can of course just reply and ask to put an application on google... |
| 16:04:01 | | Quit PaulJam (".") |
| 16:04:18 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:04:54 | domonoky | forward it to rockbox-commiters should be good, all mentors should be commitors.. |
| 16:05:17 | gevaerts | OK |
| 16:05:48 | domonoky | and ofcourse the student should just apply... the more applications rockbox gets, the more slots we get :-) |
| 16:06:27 | * | gevaerts now notices that he did cc some mentors. Forwarding anyway, since they are not all there |
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| 16:12:29 | | Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator) |
| 16:12:47 | DerPapst | domonoky: iirc GodEater is a mentor but not a commiter. Not sure if he's in the -committers mailinglist though. |
| 16:13:27 | * | domonoky didnt knew that... |
| 16:13:36 | DerPapst | HA! :-P |
| 16:13:37 | | Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p54964949.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:13:39 | Cazou | how much application do you have so far ? |
| 16:13:48 | DerPapst | 8 |
| 16:14:00 | | Join kugel [0] (i=kugel@unaffiliated/kugel) |
| 16:14:04 | domonoky | but only two usable ones i think.. :-) |
| 16:14:06 | DerPapst | iirc last year 20 :-) |
| 16:14:08 | gevaerts | DerPapst: in this case that's not too much of a problem, he is in the original CC list, so he knows about it |
| 16:14:17 | Cazou | and how much did you expect . |
| 16:14:18 | DerPapst | ok :-) |
| 16:14:18 | Cazou | ? |
| 16:14:29 | DerPapst | 100? |
| 16:14:33 | DerPapst | ;-) |
| 16:14:48 | BigBambi | Cazou: Last year was the first year so I don't think anyone knew what to expect |
| 16:14:51 | * | domonoky would like to see at the very least 4 usable one, but the more the better.. |
| 16:16:41 | Cazou | and what does it need to be "usable" ? |
| 16:17:32 | domonoky | it should be of use for rockbox, realistic, and with enough details, so we know you understand the project.. |
| 16:17:37 | gevaerts | First of all, rockbox related. While this may sound obvious, apparently it isn't... |
| 16:19:38 | Cazou | I discovered rockbox with gsoc |
| 16:19:44 | DerPapst | highscore or high score? i always though the former but it seems like spellcheckers tend to disagree. |
| 16:19:58 | DerPapst | *thought |
| 16:20:28 | domonoky | Cazou: nice, do you have a rockboxable player ? |
| 16:20:48 | Cazou | unfortunatly no |
| 16:21:03 | Cazou | but there is a simulator, isn't there ? |
| 16:21:15 | BigBambi | Yes |
| 16:21:31 | BigBambi | But it depends on what you want to work on how useful that is |
| 16:21:46 | domonoky | yes, there is, but it is a simulator and not an emulator, so real traget expirience is mostly needed.. :-) |
| 16:21:54 | BigBambi | Keep in mind it is a simulator not an emulator |
| 16:22:34 | gevaerts | Of course, if someone gets busy in this year's gsoc, maybe there will be one next year... |
| 16:23:01 | Cazou | everything is cross-compiling, compiling, and installing, I'll see what is doable :) |
| 16:23:06 | domonoky | Cazou: but if you get accepted, you could of course buy a rockboxable player with the first money.. |
| 16:23:08 | * | DerPapst goes with "highscore" |
| 16:23:27 | gevaerts | Cazou: rockboxable players can be quite cheap |
| 16:24:52 | | Join domonok1 [0] (n=Domonoky@92.227.45.134) |
| 16:25:00 | gevaerts | You could try getting one of those sansa c240s from that British offer via someone on the other side. It would work out at 20 to 30 euro |
| 16:25:49 | Cazou | I already have a player (not rockboxable), I don't want to buy another one... |
| 16:26:09 | Cazou | what's the difference between a simulator and an emulator ? |
| 16:28:55 | gevaerts | Basically, a simulator shows the same behaviour to the user, while an emulator allows to run exactly the same software. Maybe an example would make this clearer, but I can't think of one... |
| 16:29:02 | | Quit bluebrother (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:29:11 | | Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.) |
| 16:29:21 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23E6AA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:30:52 | kugel | I think the thin difference between between a simulator and an emulator is uninteresting for the most users |
| 16:31:20 | BigBambi | It is vitally important |
| 16:31:25 | gevaerts | kugel: we are talking in the gsoc context |
| 16:31:31 | BigBambi | For developers, and that is who it is aimed at |
| 16:31:44 | BigBambi | And the difference is not small |
| 16:32:11 | kugel | with "most users" I excluded devs ;) |
| 16:32:26 | BigBambi | So how is that relevant here? |
| 16:32:56 | domonok1 | basically you can only use the sim to test ui things, hardware things and performace problems are only testable on target (or an emulator) |
| 16:33:15 | gevaerts | Cazou: while I understand that you are happy with one player, GSoC is partly about getting developers who will stay with the project afterwards. If you don't own a rockbox-capable player that is unlikely. Also note that nobody is suggesting that you would buy it _now_, but I think that spending 1% of the GSoC money on a player is reasonable, if you are chosen |
| 16:38:41 | Cazou | gevaerts: I agree but if there is a way of doing this with a simulator or emulator, that could be usefull |
| 16:39:08 | DerPapst | the initial work yes. the reast unlikely |
| 16:39:16 | DerPapst | since there is no emulator yet. |
| 16:39:30 | DerPapst | this is another suggested gsoc app |
| 16:39:32 | Horscht | whihch would be a GSoC project |
| 16:39:42 | Horscht | *proposed projectÜ |
| 16:39:53 | gevaerts | Of course, they allow for quicker testing if it's possible, but it really depends on what area you are working in. For instance, my USB work is not doable _at all_ on anything but real hardware |
| 16:40:18 | Cazou | DerPapst: that's exactly what I was thinking about |
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| 16:43:15 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:43:27 | Nico_P | jhMikeS: here? |
| 16:45:48 | gevaerts | Cazou: are there any specific areas that you are interested in ? |
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| 16:49:05 | Cazou | well, I'm interrested in embedded development but I'm discovering it, I have no experience in it |
| 16:49:34 | Cazou | I have experience in higher level development (Qt/KDE f.e.) |
| 16:50:13 | gevaerts | well, yes. That applies to most of rockbox... But we have codecs, user interface, plugins (games,...),... Maybe you have some preference there |
| 16:50:28 | BigBambi | USB... :) |
| 16:51:09 | gevaerts | I won't suggest that right now. Just slightly too many unknowns... |
| 16:51:22 | gevaerts | (i.e. one, but it's really unknown) |
| 16:51:35 | Cazou | I'm more into user interface, you know, see what has been done |
| 16:51:46 | Cazou | and scummVM was interresting |
| 16:52:06 | gevaerts | If I were a student, I wouldn't like a project that might fail because of one unknown bit in a SoC register... |
| 16:52:18 | BigBambi | indeed |
| 16:53:53 | Cazou | one unknown bit in a SoC register ? what do you mean ? |
| 16:53:54 | domonok1 | scummVM is probably not easy, as you have to somehow integrate a c++ plugin into rockbox :-) also screensize and inputs could be problematic.. |
| 16:54:28 | DerPapst | s/8/9 |
| 16:54:33 | DerPapst | :-) |
| 16:54:51 | Nico_P | Cazou: isn't there archopen for the archos 404? |
| 16:55:30 | * | gevaerts finally read the logs completely, so he now knows that he asked some questions that were already answered before... |
| 16:57:09 | Cazou | Nico_P: you seem right :) |
| 16:57:16 | Cazou | I didn't know that project |
| 16:57:32 | Nico_P | with their drivers I guess a rockbox port could be a tad easier |
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| 16:59:29 | * | DerPapst hopes that makes it 2.5 usable apps. :-P |
| 16:59:53 | DerPapst | and now it's time to hunt some food :-D |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:58 | Cazou | with their drivers ? |
| 17:01:09 | Cazou | DerPapst: Yes, food :p |
| 17:01:17 | gevaerts | Cazou: SoC = System-on-Chip. In this specific case, USB does not work properly yet because we need to do some unknown hardware setup |
| 17:01:49 | Nico_P | Cazou: well I assume they've written drivers for the targets they support. These drivers can be reused by a Rockbox port |
| 17:02:47 | * | gevaerts accuses domonok1 of stealing a sentence from another GSoC application comment ;) |
| 17:03:01 | domonok1 | :-) |
| 17:03:31 | * | domonok1 thought the comment was GPL :-) |
| 17:03:47 | DerPapst | hehehe |
| 17:04:18 | kugel | DerPapst: have you applied now? |
| 17:04:31 | Horscht | WTFPL |
| 17:04:38 | * | gevaerts grants domonok1 a perpetual and non-exclusive license to use that sentence :) |
| 17:04:45 | | Quit tedrock (No route to host) |
| 17:04:51 | domonok1 | thx :-) |
| 17:05:05 | DerPapst | kugel: yes |
| 17:05:21 | kugel | DerPapst: Cool. Looking forward to a new game! |
| 17:05:52 | DerPapst | lets see if it gets accepted first :-P |
| 17:06:24 | * | DerPapst hopes JdGordon|zzz doesn't beat him for is english ;-) |
| 17:06:33 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 17:06:39 | gevaerts | is english ? |
| 17:06:42 | * | kugel probably applies next year (if rockbox is accepted), when he's a student |
| 17:07:37 | pixelma | gevaerts: don't question DerPapst's typing - he visited too many typo classes (as he would say) :P |
| 17:07:39 | domonok1 | DerPapst: the application sounds nice, but it could be not enough work for gsoc, depending on your coding skills.. :-) |
| 17:08:24 | gevaerts | pixelma: I can't resist typos if the sentence is about correct language :) |
| 17:08:43 | DerPapst | it's the keymaps and art work i'm more afraid of :-P |
| 17:09:04 | gevaerts | domonok1: it's always possible to spend time on improving an AI |
| 17:09:31 | domonok1 | sure, and yes artwork could take some time.. |
| 17:09:50 | domonok1 | so i revert my optinion :-) |
| 17:09:58 | DerPapst | especially on smaler monochrome LCDs |
| 17:10:08 | moos | DerPapst: I'd say port 2 games for 1 project, maybe that will increase your chance (of course 2 portable games in the meaning time) |
| 17:10:38 | DerPapst | if i'll be too fast i might consider doing mastermind ;-) |
| 17:11:01 | moos | hehe :), added this in your paper? |
| 17:11:08 | DerPapst | but that is waaaaays to easy for a gsoc app. |
| 17:11:09 | DerPapst | nope |
| 17:12:02 | gevaerts | I would suggest to port http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/ instead of doing mastermind. It's in there, and this thing is designed to be simple and portable |
| 17:13:11 | gevaerts | And it would give us 27 games instead of just one (OK, there would be some duplicates with what we already have, and some may be hard to map on our buttons, but still) |
| 17:13:52 | * | moos bewails words game :) |
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| 17:14:42 | moos | gevaerts: interresting... |
| 17:15:49 | DerPapst | neat. |
| 17:16:16 | gevaerts | I've been thinking of doing that port as a way of learning about the pluging api |
| 17:16:58 | | Quit tedr0ck (Connection timed out) |
| 17:17:18 | * | moos slapes gevaerts with an USB cable ;P |
| 17:17:48 | * | gevaerts hides, and wonders why moos would do that |
| 17:18:03 | | Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!") |
| 17:18:13 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23EF77.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:18:28 | * | DerPapst is done with hunting and shot some noodles |
| 17:19:07 | * | gevaerts wonders if DerPapst used the A-3, B-7 method of shooting |
| 17:19:30 | DerPapst | you bet :-P |
| 17:20:00 | moos | gevaerts: hehe :) It would have been pitty for us USB stack to see you distracted by plugins |
| 17:20:08 | moos | :) |
| 17:20:56 | gevaerts | I haven't started yet :) But now and then I need some time of from USB... |
| 17:21:10 | DerPapst | rockbox all about plugins. usb isn't important |
| 17:21:23 | gevaerts | And if you want to prevent me from doing that, you can of course do it first :) |
| 17:21:29 | * | DerPapst adds an "is" |
| 17:21:48 | gevaerts | DerPapst: that's not what you said in your application :) |
| 17:22:15 | DerPapst | i didn't? then i must have pasted the wrong text o.O |
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| 17:22:47 | pixelma | scorche: you around? |
| 17:22:59 | gevaerts | You said "Rockbox is all about...", but there was something else after that :) |
| 17:23:38 | DerPapst | lies! |
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| 17:25:29 | Tordre | Hello |
| 17:25:41 | DerPapst | good morning |
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| 17:26:56 | Tordre | yes, it is. |
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| 17:42:45 | | Part Chipsaru |
| 17:44:54 | | Part Cazou ("Miam miam") |
| 17:49:12 | | Join CShaffer [0] (n=484b848d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7fe2e651bd06b88c) |
| 17:49:46 | CShaffer | Hi Everyone - Corey here, I submitted the usability app for GSoC |
| 17:51:47 | gevaerts | Hi CShaffer. Welcome to rockbox ! |
| 17:54:34 | DerPapst | o/ :-) |
| 17:55:13 | gevaerts | I'm not sure how much you already know about rockbox. Did you look around the website a bit yet ? |
| 17:55:59 | domonok1 | CShaffer: first question: do you have rockboxable player ? or do you plan to buy one ? ... :-) |
| 17:56:18 | CShaffer | haha yea i have an ipod |
| 17:56:49 | CShaffer | I am not overly familiar with Rockbox - I really wanted to do a usability study and this was one of the ones I found :) |
| 17:57:30 | CShaffer | last year I worked with WordPress and wasn't familiar with it either. Now I provide WP support to b5media and do independent web consulting helping companies utilizing the tool. |
| 17:57:32 | gevaerts | That's always better than choosing the usability study because it looks easy, which it probably isn't ;) |
| 17:58:56 | * | petur thinks familiarity is not required at all for usability study |
| 17:59:33 | Nico_P | it's probably even a plus to have a fresh view of things |
| 17:59:33 | gevaerts | While reading your application, I was a bit put off by words like 'company', 'customer', and 'client'. While this isn't a serious issue, maybe it would be a good idea to change that to 'project' and 'user' ? |
| 17:59:55 | CShaffer | yea sure, no problem |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:07 | CShaffer | i was using the word "user" alot haha, so I tried to change it up a bit |
| 18:00:09 | domonok1 | the application sounded a bit like rockbox is selling mp3players.. |
| 18:00:13 | gevaerts | I agree about the familiarity, but it's still useful to know where we stand |
| 18:00:18 | CShaffer | haha i gotcha |
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| 18:01:13 | CShaffer | sorry about that, I didn't mean it in that way! |
| 18:01:45 | domonok1 | and for the usability study i think its important to know in which constraints rockbox has to work ( different players, screensizes, input methods) |
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| 18:02:24 | CShaffer | yea good point |
| 18:04:08 | gevaerts | We do have user interface simulators available for all supported players, but of course they don't give you a real feel, especially for button positions and similar. |
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| 18:04:24 | CShaffer | yea |
| 18:05:09 | * | gevaerts could never really use them as they seem to depend on the numeric keypad for input, which isn't there on this laptop... |
| 18:05:56 | bluebrother | nevertheless, in regards of the constraints about rockbox it might be good to know the current ui just to get the reasons why it's working the way it currently does |
| 18:06:34 | * | pixelma reminds gevaerts of "Fn" buttons on laptop keyboards (not very nice but works here) |
| 18:06:45 | DerPapst | gevaerts: the reason i changed the buttons for my sims :-P |
| 18:06:51 | domonok1 | gevaerts: the sim has alternate keys on the normal keyboard i think :-) |
| 18:07:09 | * | bluebrother always had trouble with the alternate keys in the sim |
| 18:07:39 | domonok1 | CShaffer: also, we want see some code comming out of this usability study.. how are your coding skills ? |
| 18:07:42 | gevaerts | I didn't look too hard, since my area is not doable on a sim anyway, but if I do this game plugin, I might actually use it |
| 18:09:09 | CShaffer | I am a pretty solid coder. I am experienced with java, c++, HTML, PHP, ASP .NET |
| 18:09:43 | CShaffer | I am a graduating CS major from The College of New JErsey |
| 18:10:02 | * | DerPapst points out that html is not a programming languag :-P |
| 18:10:24 | * | gevaerts points out that he said 'coder', not 'programmer' ;) |
| 18:10:37 | DerPapst | meh. |
| 18:10:48 | * | DerPapst goes to the corner |
| 18:10:55 | CShaffer | lolol |
| 18:10:55 | * | gevaerts likes nitpicking |
| 18:11:02 | linuxstb | .NET isn't a language either, is it? |
| 18:11:15 | CShaffer | uses C# |
| 18:11:16 | gevaerts | No, but ASP .NET probably is |
| 18:11:32 | domonok1 | .Net is more a framework, as you can use differen lang with it.. |
| 18:11:38 | CShaffer | yea its a framework |
| 18:11:42 | CShaffer | VB, C# |
| 18:11:58 | | Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@atheme/developer/desowin) |
| 18:12:05 | bluebrother | how about C? C is quite a different thing than C++ (but both are quite often mixed up) |
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| 18:12:30 | CShaffer | I haven't had much experience with C at all. I was wondering how much of an issue that would be? |
| 18:12:57 | CShaffer | When I initially applied, I wasn't sure how much code would be expected since it was a usability study. |
| 18:13:21 | bluebrother | it's more ... say "basic". For example, there is nothing like a string. |
| 18:13:32 | gevaerts | We're still not sure either ;) People seem to have different opinions on that |
| 18:13:49 | domonok1 | i dont think there is much coding involved in the usability study, but we want you to implemtent all/ a view of your suggestions to try them out.. |
| 18:13:52 | bluebrother | and it's functional, not OOP. So quite some different approach in programmning |
| 18:13:58 | DerPapst | well the ultimate goal of the study is that you put your findings in code to make rockbox more intuitive |
| 18:14:13 | domonok1 | also its not easy to convice our user of changes, so something to try out is good.. |
| 18:14:21 | bluebrother | DerPapst: and wait for the core devs to dislike it ;-) |
| 18:14:36 | CShaffer | haha |
| 18:14:38 | DerPapst | hehe.. ture :-P |
| 18:14:38 | gevaerts | indeed. I think that we mainly want to see a prototype |
| 18:14:39 | * | bluebrother likes the current UI pretty much |
| 18:14:39 | Nico_P | bluebrother: C is not functional programming... Lisp is. C is imperative |
| 18:15:08 | * | DerPapst hates functional languages |
| 18:15:16 | markun | or haskell |
| 18:15:26 | DerPapst | *shudder* |
| 18:15:44 | thgz | Hi. When I enable equalizer, the voice begins stuttering. Has anyone noted this or is it only my problem? I'm using E200 |
| 18:15:55 | CShaffer | Have there been a lot of apps for the usability sutdy? |
| 18:16:15 | bluebrother | Nico_P: bah, damn. Meant procedural. |
| 18:16:31 | domonok1 | CShaffer: 2 till now.. |
| 18:16:44 | CShaffer | yea |
| 18:17:14 | * | bluebrother goes standing in the corner |
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| 18:17:33 | bluebrother | thgz: only voice or all playback? |
| 18:18:35 | thgz | Only voice, except when voice is stuttering the playback is doing it also, but otherwise the playback is going fine |
| 18:18:46 | gevaerts | CShaffer: (disclaimer, personal opinion follows) I think the main problem a usability study will face is that rockbox doesn't have a clear leadership, which means there is no single person of small group that you have to convince to accept your suggestions, you have to convince a lot of people, and some of them can be quite stubborn |
| 18:18:48 | domonok1 | CShaffer: but the usability study is really a bit difficult to satisfy, i think you have to convice a bit more, that your work really helps rockbox.. |
| 18:19:24 | bluebrother | thgz: ok, so both voice and playback are stuttering and without voice the music plays fine? |
| 18:19:56 | CShaffer | yea when dealing with open-source that can often be the case |
| 18:20:05 | thgz | exactly. When I don't use voice (eg while in WPS) it is fine. |
| 18:20:10 | gevaerts | That's also the main reason (IMHO) for needing one I think. Adding codecs and other basic features doesn't require much coordination, but enforcing UI guidelines without a strong leadership is hard |
| 18:20:25 | waldo | are there any plans for support of id3v2 cover art covers being shown instead of the workaround with the covers being saved sepparatly ? |
| 18:20:37 | CShaffer | definitely |
| 18:20:46 | bluebrother | thgz: well, sounds like a performance issue to me then −− with voice running two audio streams need to get decoded and mixed. |
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| 18:20:57 | bluebrother | what codec are you using? |
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| 18:21:27 | thgz | I've thought something similar... I've only tested with mp3 |
| 18:21:37 | gevaerts | waldo: I think the main problem for doing that is that there is currently no jpeg code in the core (there is a plugin, but that's not usable in this context). Also, if I understand things correctly, the current id3 parser has trouble with large tags |
| 18:21:57 | bluebrother | are those high bitrate? mp3 shouldn't need too much cpu |
| 18:22:03 | | Join Cazou [0] (n=detlev@193.190.208.37) |
| 18:22:32 | thgz | They're something between 128 and 320 kbps. I can test with different bitrates |
| 18:22:39 | * | bluebrother doesn't consider separate artwork files a workaround |
| 18:23:24 | raxor | hey there... im kinda of a newbie here.. ive recently purchased the iriver x20.. and am interested on porting the rockbox to it.. but i just dont know where to start.. ive gone through the wiki but it all seems a bit too confusing.. |
| 18:23:26 | waldo | gevaerts: k thanks same situations as a few months ago then :) ... btw whitch id3 tags are used ? v1 or v2 when both are available ? |
| 18:23:34 | gevaerts | CShaffer: I think I need to add one more disclaimer. While I may talk a lot, I've been involved in rockbox for less than two months, so my views on things can definitely be wrong |
| 18:23:46 | BigBambi | raxor: Have you seen www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort |
| 18:24:04 | gevaerts | waldo: I think v2 has priority, and if any v2 tags are present v1 will not be used at all, but I could be wrong |
| 18:24:13 | BigBambi | waldo: V2 |
| 18:24:15 | | Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection) |
| 18:24:17 | waldo | and what if a specific tag is only in one version and not in the other |
| 18:24:20 | linuxstb | waldo: v2 is read first, if there is no v2 tag, then Rockbox searches for and uses the v1 tag |
| 18:24:24 | BigBambi | v1 are ignored if v2 are present |
| 18:24:34 | BigBambi | (as gevaerts said) |
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| 18:24:50 | BigBambi | (and linuxstb) |
| 18:24:52 | raxor | well yeah ive checked that out.. i identified the chip being used and all.. i just want to know what to do next? |
| 18:24:52 | | Quit CShaffer ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 18:25:08 | BigBambi | raxor: Identify how to run custom code would be good |
| 18:25:13 | linuxstb | raxor: You've seen the NewPort page? |
| 18:25:14 | waldo | thus; if i have replaygain in a v1 tag but not in v2 it should still be used ? |
| 18:25:30 | BigBambi | raxor: Is there a firmware update mechanism? And a way to recover if a bad update is made? |
| 18:25:32 | waldo | .... while all the rest of the info is in the v2 tags |
| 18:25:40 | BigBambi | linuxstb: He has |
| 18:25:43 | gevaerts | waldo: in that case it will not be used |
| 18:26:10 | thgz | On 320 kbps mp3 some stuttering ockurs. |
| 18:26:23 | linuxstb | raxor: What CPU is it? |
| 18:26:28 | BigBambi | thgz: Target? |
| 18:26:49 | waldo | gevaerts: Thought so kinda sux .. amarok replaygain script scans and seems to save it in the V1 tags or so 'cause rockbox doesn't see the ones i scanned with amarok, those i scanned in my foobar200 days plat just fine |
| 18:26:57 | raxor | it just has an firmware updater which checks for ur firmware.. if ur firmwar is uptodate it says no upgrade required. |
| 18:27:08 | thgz | Sansa e200. |
| 18:27:15 | raxor | is tehre any tool which i could use to extract the firmware? |
| 18:27:22 | linuxstb | waldo: You can't store replaygain tags in id3v1. Maybe it's storing it in APE tags? |
| 18:27:25 | BigBambi | Replaygain support on linux is ropey at best |
| 18:27:38 | gevaerts | waldo: id3v2 has a −−convert option that you might try. I've not used it, but it might work |
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| 18:28:36 | thgz | Well, when eq is enabled there seems to be trouble on voicing those menus. I mean when I click on equalizer some options sometimes are voiced and sometimes not, but when eq is disabled I haven't taht problem. |
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| 18:34:30 | thgz | ON 128 kbps mp3 the result is the same |
| 18:36:49 | raxor | ok.. i just found out that theres a tool to re install the firmware incase a bad updat is made.. |
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| 18:38:21 | Cazou | mmmmhh... |
| 18:38:31 | Cazou | Archos 404, Not easily unbrickable |
| 18:38:38 | Cazou | some test points |
| 18:38:42 | raxor | what are the next steps? |
| 18:38:46 | Cazou | but no jtag prot |
| 18:38:53 | Cazou | s/prot/port |
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| 19:39:34 | * | ender` yawns |
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| 19:43:21 | * | pixelma kicks build system |
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| 19:44:08 | pixelma | (or would like to) |
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| 19:45:28 | * | BigBambi hands pixelma The world's biggest stick (TM) |
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| 20:33:55 | * | gevaerts reminds people that his devcon free beer offer expires today |
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| 20:37:17 | petur | what was that again? |
| 20:37:44 | gevaerts | if the date for the devcon is decided this week, I'll buy everyone there a beer |
| 20:39:11 | disorganizer | which timezone? |
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| 20:40:04 | * | gevaerts is willing to be flexible, so the week will end when it's no longer officially 30 march 2008 in any part of the world |
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| 20:40:27 | disorganizer | well, that will still leave some time |
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| 20:50:11 | disorganizer | a question regarding gcos: shouldnt the usablility study also have as requirement that all recommendations are implementable in the current structure of rockbox without programming all of it? (or at least something like that) |
| 20:51:52 | disorganizer | also, should we "mark" the projects for which we already have applications? maybe some students then decide to use another project. |
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| 20:52:23 | gevaerts | I don't think so, for various reasons. It would require the student to know too much of the UI internals, and it could be too restrictive |
| 20:53:24 | disorganizer | the risk though is that the only result will be a list of requirements which are impossible to fullfill |
| 20:53:47 | | Quit fehmicans (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:53:47 | gevaerts | and I don't think so either :). We want the best possible application for each job, and this would chase people away who are only interested in a specific project |
| 20:54:03 | linuxstb | But the usability project should also include some implementation... |
| 20:54:08 | | Quit amiconn (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference") |
| 20:55:26 | gevaerts | I think that if anyone does the usability study, he/she should communicate with the rest of us, which would allow us to steer them in the right direction and avoid impossible suggestions (but good suggestions that require major work are IMHO acceptable) |
| 20:56:49 | gevaerts | The GraphicsAPI wiki page mentions "Full clipping support". I can't find anything more about it. How does this work ? |
| 20:57:52 | | Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend") |
| 20:58:23 | * | gevaerts is trying to map the sgt-puzzles drawing api to the rockbox plugin graphics api |
| 20:58:26 | linuxstb | Any attempt to draw outside the LCD (and now, current viewport) will be clipped. |
| 20:58:52 | linuxstb | I'm not sure how to explain clipping.. |
| 20:59:01 | gevaerts | OK, so no support for non-viewport clipping regions ? |
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| 20:59:25 | NJoin | rgould [0] (n=rgould@osgeo/member/rgould) |
| 20:59:52 | linuxstb | gevaerts: What do you mean by "clipping region" ? That sounds like a viewport to me... |
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| 21:01:05 | gevaerts | In the sgt-puzzles api, it's dynamic; i.e. a specific game can call clip(drawing *dr, int x, int y, int w, int h); which will restrict drawing to the specified rectangle. This rectangle can be different every time |
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| 21:02:26 | Hodapp | hmm... wonder if I should feel like a sinner for using iTunes & default firmware to handle all the podcast stuff even though I use Rockbox for all other audio... |
| 21:02:55 | gevaerts | Of course you should ;) |
| 21:03:56 | Hodapp | I'm anticipating it being useful when I'm in "grab my iPod from the dock and run out the door" mode and I need something to listen to while I drive an hour to work that isn't raving right-wing lunatics talking about how wonderful of a man Bush is. |
| 21:04:48 | * | disorganizer pillorys hodapp |
| 21:05:00 | disorganizer | -y+ie |
| 21:05:00 | Hodapp | pillorys? |
| 21:05:08 | Hodapp | pillories? |
| 21:05:37 | disorganizer | see dictionary |
| 21:05:56 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey (Success) |
| 21:05:56 | Hodapp | oh, those. |
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| 21:06:15 | Hodapp | why?!?! |
| 21:06:30 | disorganizer | you use itunes :-) |
| 21:07:12 | Hodapp | not for anything important, just for syncing calendar/contacts/podcasts |
| 21:07:20 | * | disorganizer notices he forgot the :-) again |
| 21:07:21 | Hodapp | I use VLC for most else |
| 21:10:07 | gevaerts | Is there a way to copy a rectangular area from the framebuffer to somewhere else in memory ? |
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| 21:11:25 | linuxstb | gevaerts: Not really, but you can access the framebuffer directly (rb->lcd_framebuffer) |
| 21:11:39 | gevaerts | ok, so I can implement it reasonably easily |
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| 21:11:49 | linuxstb | But the framebuffer format is target-dependent, and there are about 6-7 formats |
| 21:12:02 | gevaerts | :( |
| 21:12:41 | linuxstb | Why do you need to copy from the framebuffer? |
| 21:12:45 | gevaerts | Can I use viewports dynamically, i.e. set one whenever I want to restrict some drawing to a specific area of the screen ? |
| 21:13:22 | linuxstb | Yes, but can't you just restrict it directly? |
| 21:13:43 | gevaerts | linuxstb: I'm looking into porting sgt-puzzles. This specifies a drawing api for use by the puzzles that each port must implement. If I can map all of them directly to GraphicsAPI functions, it will be much easier |
| 21:13:55 | | Quit Pio__ (Connection timed out) |
| 21:14:10 | stripwax_ | or potentially write some simple wrapper functions and map the api to those? |
| 21:14:11 | linuxstb | The only time you can't have "temporary" viewports is if you're displaying scrolling lines - in that case, the viewport needs to stay the same for the lifetime of the scrolling line |
| 21:14:27 | gevaerts | I won't need those |
| 21:14:52 | gevaerts | stripwax_: they will have to be wrappers. The exact function parameters are not always the same |
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| 21:17:03 | gevaerts | So I will need to do a full implementation of rectangular-area-copying, and circle and polygon drawing. The rest are (reasonably) simple wrappers. That should be doable. |
| 21:21:32 | stripwax_ | and they will go into the plugin lib? |
| 21:22:12 | gevaerts | I also need some kind of tick() function, and of course malloc() :) |
| 21:23:15 | gevaerts | stripwax_: maybe, I don't know how big the demand is |
| 21:23:28 | * | disorganizer saw the m-word! |
| 21:23:51 | * | gevaerts didn't dare mentionning realloc() |
| 21:24:21 | domonoky | gevaerts: at least circle and polygon drawing would be nice in the plugin api... |
| 21:25:10 | gevaerts | Indeed |
| 21:25:14 | domonoky | and for the tick(), there is either rb->currenttick, or i think there is a user timer aviable.. |
| 21:25:47 | gevaerts | There has to be something, since plugins do animations... |
| 21:26:12 | gevaerts | Basically this thing wants a callback that is regularly called |
| 21:27:05 | gevaerts | The great thing is that this will give us 27 games in one go (minus some that we already have and some that might be too hard to map to the available buttons) :) |
| 21:27:40 | domonoky | :-) there is rb->timer_register() which takes a callback.. |
| 21:28:28 | gevaerts | wonderful. This entire project should be pretty easy :) |
| 21:29:25 | gevaerts | It's not often that you find software that actually clearly defines a well thought out API to separate out port-specific code |
| 21:29:44 | domonoky | for malloc you have to look at other plugins, or just use dbestfit from our swedes :-) |
| 21:30:52 | * | gevaerts will try his best to sneak a malloc through the defence perimeter |
| 21:31:19 | BigBambi | gevaerts: You have an anti-pitchfork and flaming torches device? |
| 21:31:22 | domonoky | i think malloc for plugins is ok... its already used by some.. |
| 21:31:49 | gevaerts | BigBambi: I hope the games will distract them enough to let me through :) |
| 21:31:54 | BigBambi | :) |
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| 21:38:06 | domonoky | another Theme/WPS editor application has popped up, this time with the PC part in java.. :-/ |
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| 21:45:36 | * | petur spots a much cheaper MK8007GAH on ebay... |
| 21:45:54 | szLacko | Hi! My name is Laszlo Szilagyi, and I'm interested in the GSOC 2008. I'm about to write and send my application (ok, last minute I know). Michael Sevakis mentioned a "high quality resampler" wich should be implemented, but gave me no more details about the broject. I'm interested in such a task, but I'm afraid I need more information about it to write my application, don't I? Thanks for help! |
| 21:46:24 | szLacko | broject->project... |
| 21:46:39 | domonoky | hi szLacko, welcome to the rockbox community ! :-) |
| 21:46:53 | szLacko | hi! |
| 21:46:56 | gevaerts | jhMikeS: telephone call for you :) |
| 21:47:14 | desowin | you sent that already to maling list, didn't you szLacko? |
| 21:48:07 | szLacko | Yes I did. |
| 21:48:31 | szLacko | But how exact my application should be? |
| 21:49:03 | domonoky | take a look at: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GSoCApplicationTemplate2008 |
| 21:49:12 | domonoky | and feel free to aks questions here |
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| 21:50:01 | linuxstb | szLacko: What are you proposing to do? Is a resampler a whole summer's work? |
| 21:51:50 | | Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!") |
| 21:52:25 | szLacko | I've read the "Advice for students" stuff from google, and also the template, but the google stuff speaks about describing "milestones" and also making "schedule", but I haven't got the specification af that resampler, also I don't know anything about it, Michael send me a mail about it, and if that is possible I'll happily do that task, but it isn't in the "ideas list". |
| 21:52:55 | szLacko | I'm also interested in the other "ideas" in connection with DS |
| 21:53:00 | BigBambi | szLacko: As I understand it (someone correct me if I am wrong), at the moment everything is output at 44.1 kHz by Rockbox. Any files at other sample rates are simply linearly interpolated. We would like a better resampler :) |
| 21:53:16 | szLacko | ...inconnection with digital signal processing. |
| 21:53:51 | petur | szLacko: see http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/dsp.c?revision=16721&view=markup for some code (I think) |
| 21:54:24 | domonoky | so we need a highquality software resampler which works for normal Audiofrequencies :-) |
| 21:54:49 | desowin | szLacko: I'm saying this from student point of view - I dislike that schedule to describe, as writing schedule is imo harder than actual coding ;) |
| 21:55:38 | domonoky | the shedule will be incorrect from the day you start coding, but it show that you know what todo.. :-) |
| 21:55:50 | szLacko | Ok, its clear, and I have experience with decimation filters, digital down converters, interpolation shold not be a problem. |
| 21:56:31 | * | disorganizer thinks that the sense of a project-schedule is to be incorrect until you finish the project. its there to warn you if you take too much time for a task or are too lazy :-) |
| 21:56:36 | domonoky | szLacko: you can also apply for more then one projects, if you can decide what you like more :-) |
| 21:57:21 | domonoky | s/can/cant :-) |
| 21:57:53 | desowin | disorganizer: personally (speaking of soc 2007), I haven't had scedule, I was just doing actual coding, and I've finished 2 weeks before deadline (I haven't worked for rockbox as soc, so this might be a bit offtopic now...) |
| 21:58:50 | disorganizer | desowin: but the sense of the gsoc is to let people practice coding in a "clean" approach which they can later maybe use in a job. which normally includes the "overhead" :-) |
| 21:58:59 | domonoky | also you dont need to put a shedule or milestones into your application, but it helps :-) |
| 21:59:12 | szLacko | So the applications are judged by the Rockbox, not by the Google? |
| 21:59:19 | desowin | exactly |
| 21:59:32 | desowin | organisations rank the applications by themselves. |
| 21:59:41 | domonoky | yes, thei are judged by us, google decides only how much students we get.. |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:23 | szLacko | And how Google make the decision about the student numbers? |
| 22:00:53 | szLacko | For example, how many students you had last year? |
| 22:01:29 | domonoky | slots depend on the popularity of the project (how many applications) and a few other factors.. thei are also cut at top and bottom.. so there is a min and amx .. |
| 22:01:34 | desowin | most important is popularity, then other factors like completion rate for other years, there's doc for this |
| 22:01:43 | domonoky | Last year rockbox had 4 slots.. |
| 22:01:44 | desowin | http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/notes-on-student-allocations |
| 22:02:36 | | Join clincher [0] (n=clincher@96.240.96.79) |
| 22:02:37 | domonoky | so to all students here: apply then rockbox gets more slots *hehe* |
| 22:02:45 | | Nick clincher is now known as ceclin (n=clincher@96.240.96.79) |
| 22:02:53 | szLacko | :) |
| 22:03:08 | disorganizer | also there are enough really interesting projects to choose from at rockbox :-) |
| 22:03:54 | disorganizer | not to mention the excellent community |
| 22:04:27 | szLacko | Thanks for the link, got the picture about slots... |
| 22:04:28 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:04:58 | * | HEx wonders how many people have yet to apply at this late stage |
| 22:05:21 | * | domonoky thinks there are many, they are students ! :-) |
| 22:05:24 | BigBambi | I suspect a great number of people for all projects apply at the last minute |
| 22:05:24 | HEx | (why yes, I am considering it :) |
| 22:05:31 | BigBambi | HEx: Which project? |
| 22:05:43 | BigBambi | (s) |
| 22:05:58 | HEx | porting to new hardware |
| 22:06:03 | BigBambi | Which hardware? |
| 22:06:19 | desowin | I'm buying myself AP, so if deadline gets extended there's (small) possibility of me sendinf an application ;) |
| 22:06:32 | HEx | good question. I figured you guys would know more about the potential options than I would |
| 22:06:48 | szLacko | So appliing so late is not a plus? :P |
| 22:06:59 | BigBambi | It'd be an idea to know what is involved |
| 22:07:14 | BigBambi | HEx: Some potential ports will be much 'easier' than others |
| 22:07:16 | domonoky | szLacko: not really, but we are forgiving :-) |
| 22:07:17 | HEx | HEx/tmp/rockbox-gsoc">http://sphere.chronosempire.org.uk/~HEx/tmp/rockbox-gsoc are my current thoughts |
| 22:07:18 | | Nick soap_ is now known as Sopa (n=soap@rockbox/staff/soap) |
| 22:07:20 | | Nick Sopa is now known as Soap (n=soap@cpe-65-24-116-43.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 22:07:30 | HEx | BigBambi: yes, I'm very aware of that |
| 22:07:34 | * | bluebrother wonders where he can find an overview of all applications |
| 22:07:37 | BigBambi | Ability to run custom code, encryption, similarity to existing ports etc |
| 22:07:46 | disorganizer | would a v2 sansa count as a new port? |
| 22:07:55 | linuxstb | disorganizer: Of course... |
| 22:07:58 | desowin | yes, it's new hardware |
| 22:08:09 | bluebrother | *SoC applications that is |
| 22:08:13 | disorganizer | just wanted to have that in the logs for them to read :-) |
| 22:08:43 | domonoky | bluebrother: only in the google webapp for mentors.. :-) |
| 22:08:46 | desowin | those who read log are likely to know that. |
| 22:09:07 | bluebrother | damn, does this mean I'd need to become a mentor? |
| 22:09:24 | | Quit midgey () |
| 22:09:48 | domonoky | Hex: a player with a PP chip would probably easier... as we know a good share of this SOC.. |
| 22:09:55 | * | bluebrother considered getting a mentor but doesn't know if time will permit |
| 22:10:07 | desowin | bluebrother: yes, you need to be approved mentor to read the application, but you don't have to mentor anyone |
| 22:10:12 | BigBambi | domonoky: But the lack of data sheets is 'interesting with pp |
| 22:10:25 | HEx | domonoky: do we know how to use both CPUs? |
| 22:10:36 | domonoky | yes to both :-) |
| 22:10:38 | BigBambi | HEx: MPEGPlayer and speex use both cores |
| 22:10:48 | BigBambi | s/speex/SPC |
| 22:10:56 | szLacko | So if my application meets the "standard" of the Rockbox template, I'm good to go? |
| 22:11:06 | domonoky | perhaps also a TCC based player would be good (see forum).. |
| 22:11:09 | desowin | if application is good you're good |
| 22:11:11 | desowin | ;) |
| 22:11:22 | HEx | TCC => telechips? |
| 22:11:26 | domonoky | they all boot with tcctool, so easy access for custom code.. |
| 22:11:52 | szLacko | Ok. :) Another question: the coding is in C/C++ or assembly? |
| 22:12:01 | desowin | mostly C |
| 22:12:02 | BigBambi | szLacko: Rockbox in general is C |
| 22:12:05 | domonoky | C/asm :-) |
| 22:12:16 | szLacko | okok:) |
| 22:12:16 | BigBambi | szLacko: But if you are doing speed critical things, then there is some ASM |
| 22:12:37 | szLacko | Got it. |
| 22:12:44 | gevaerts | HEx: just remember that "porting to a new target" will have a relatively high risk of failing, even if you do everything perfectly. |
| 22:13:02 | HEx | gevaerts: yes, which is why things like timelines bother me :) |
| 22:13:16 | desowin | porting can't be timelined |
| 22:13:20 | | Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) |
| 22:13:41 | domonoky | set milestones instead of a timeline, should be easier.. |
| 22:14:28 | gevaerts | HEx: for a new port, we will probably be flexible on those :). The biggest problem is that if you fail, you loose some money (maybe not a big problem for you, but it's still there), and the project gets some minus-points when allocation projects and slots next year |
| 22:14:48 | BigBambi | szLacko: And for ASM critical stuff, remember we have three different architectures - SH, Coldfire (m68k), and ARM :) |
| 22:15:04 | gevaerts | szLacko: I would say that for DSP work C is needed, and ASM welcome |
| 22:15:06 | HEx | how much do, say, PP targets differ from each other? I know they share a firmware format, for example |
| 22:15:27 | linuxstb | Not all of them do - e.g. ipods have their own format. |
| 22:15:29 | disorganizer | a milestone ist just a point in the project with a measurable success. if you put the milestone together with time you get a timeline, so there is no difference. timelines are for changing. for nothing else. |
| 22:15:51 | HEx | is it just a case of figuring out how to wrangle the LCD and DAC and other bits? |
| 22:15:55 | linuxstb | HEx: The differences are in all the other hardware - LCD, buttons, power management etc. |
| 22:16:00 | BigBambi | hehe 'just' |
| 22:16:13 | disorganizer | what happens if a gsoc project is not able to finish during a summer? will a report about the status be enough to be a success? or maybe even a "not possible" as result? |
| 22:16:15 | HEx | it's all relative :) |
| 22:16:48 | XavierGr | how many gsoc applications till now? |
| 22:16:49 | szLacko | BigBambi: I was just composing my questions about the architectures if ASM... :) |
| 22:16:55 | BigBambi | :) |
| 22:18:14 | | Join kugel [0] (i=kugel@e178069102.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:18:27 | domonoky | XavierGr: 10 with 4 useable ones i think.. :-) |
| 22:18:59 | XavierGr | I am in a dillema whether I should apply or not :\ |
| 22:19:09 | domonoky | disorganizer: depends on what "not finished" means.. |
| 22:19:31 | BigBambi | szLacko: The SH is used in the old Archos players, which have a slow CPU and use hardware MP3 decoding |
| 22:19:55 | BigBambi | szLacko: So in the software playback targets Coldfire and ARM |
| 22:20:02 | HEx | compared with having a black box with an unknown CPU architecture and a big blob of binary randomness that nobody understands, it's "just" :) |
| 22:20:12 | domonoky | szLacko: so no resampler with sh asm needed... only rm and m68k asm :-) |
| 22:20:15 | disorganizer | domonoky: well, it could be that during the progress it is noticed that its just too much work for a summer (especially with the ports). |
| 22:20:15 | BigBambi | HEx: You just described PP |
| 22:20:22 | | Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu) |
| 22:20:27 | XavierGr | I am still a student and will have a lot of free time on summer, the only part that interests me is MPT protocol or (if my sansa c240 is a v2 when arrives) to help with v2 port |
| 22:20:39 | BigBambi | well, not unknown CPU architecture, but still, you get the point |
| 22:21:11 | gevaerts | HEx: as a qualifying task, you might want to find out how to set RAM access priorities on PP so USB works properly :) |
| 22:21:22 | domonoky | disorganizer: for example the usb project last year was a success, while usb still doesnt reliable work... but another one, the TTS App failed completly |
| 22:21:22 | BigBambi | gevaerts: sneaky :) |
| 22:21:32 | | Quit csc` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:21:43 | * | disorganizer wonders what the TTS app is or was |
| 22:21:52 | HEx | heh, that would require some research :) |
| 22:21:52 | BigBambi | Test to speach |
| 22:21:55 | Soap | Text To Speech |
| 22:21:59 | BigBambi | *text |
| 22:22:12 | disorganizer | ah, ok. and the reason for failure was? |
| 22:22:19 | bluebrother | XavierGr: well, then apply for the MTP project ;-) |
| 22:22:27 | linuxstb | disorganizer: The student never did any work... |
| 22:22:28 | domonoky | disorganizer: no progress.. :-) |
| 22:22:37 | BigBambi | Nothing happened |
| 22:22:47 | szLacko | And what about the other "dsp related" projects, like the "DSP plugins", "realaudio codec", maybe the "better video support" ? |
| 22:22:50 | HEx | is the current state of USB that it only works in diskmode, which is provided by the original fw/bootloader? |
| 22:23:10 | BigBambi | szLacko: What about them - they would be good too... :) |
| 22:23:20 | domonoky | XavierGr: then go and apply for MTP.. :-) |
| 22:23:29 | BigBambi | HEx: On the software USB players, yes - the Rockbox USB works, but is unstable |
| 22:23:32 | gevaerts | HEx: on PortalPlayer we have mostly working native USB, except that it doesn't work if something else accesses the RAM simultaneously |
| 22:23:46 | disorganizer | ok. well "not finished" definitely would mean "work was done" and the student needs to proove this by getting all results into a report. so the result for example for a porting effort could also be the research done and maybe some steps taken. but nothing is not "not finished", its "not started" |
| 22:24:00 | XavierGr | is the deadline today or tomorrow? |
| 22:24:02 | BigBambi | It is also not finished :) |
| 22:24:11 | BigBambi | XavierGr: tomorrow, but it may be extended |
| 22:24:26 | linuxstb | XavierGr: Tomorrow (US time, so later for us EU people) |
| 22:24:46 | HEx | "March 31 @ 0000 GMT" => 3.5 hours away, no? |
| 22:25:05 | disorganizer | not GMT. earlier today it was said "last day of march in any timezone" |
| 22:25:10 | | Join MethoS-- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-096-212-089.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:25:22 | szLacko | If I apply for more projects for "Rockbox", and if I am "sufficent" can I decide lately, wich one I go for? |
| 22:25:24 | domonoky | april 1 00:00 UTC |
| 22:25:33 | | Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 22:25:36 | linuxstb | i.e. Monday night/Tuesday morning |
| 22:25:36 | BigBambi | szLacko: I believe the mentors rate them |
| 22:26:16 | domonoky | szLacko: if there are collisions, thei will be resolved with the students help shortly before start :-) |
| 22:26:16 | XavierGr | I was waiting until now to see if we got many applications. But I think there are too few of them considering last year, so it shouldn't be a harm to apply too |
| 22:26:55 | linuxstb | XavierGr: No-one has applied for the "Rockbox as application" - and I think that would be a popular one amongst mentors... |
| 22:27:01 | domonoky | XavierGr: pleasy apply it helps rockbox, even if you arent taken.. |
| 22:27:18 | BigBambi | linuxstb: And potential users of said application :) |
| 22:27:22 | XavierGr | linuxstb: MTP is already applied for? |
| 22:27:24 | | Join ctaylorr [0] (n=ctaylorr@bas1-toronto43-1279529752.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:27:27 | * | linuxstb wants Rockbox as console app... |
| 22:27:34 | domonoky | no MTP app till now.. |
| 22:27:38 | * | BigBambi wants a GUI dammit |
| 22:27:43 | * | disorganizer would love psp and ds ports of rockbox. maybe a wii-ware port *sigh* |
| 22:27:45 | linuxstb | XavierGr: No, but that's risky given the problems with USB in general. |
| 22:27:57 | szLacko | I see the application deadline is tomorrow, can I send it for somebody for revision (debug... :) ) before the "official" application? |
| 22:28:04 | XavierGr | linuxstb: you have a point in that |
| 22:28:15 | szLacko | of course after I finish it... :P |
| 22:28:27 | domonoky | szLacko: feel free to post a pastebin link of it here.. |
| 22:28:34 | BigBambi | szLacko: The dev mailing list, or announce it here would be good for public review - mentors if you want to keep it private |
| 22:28:37 | | Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:28:37 | domonoky | and ask for review.. |
| 22:28:40 | XavierGr | also if my c240 comes as a v2 I won't have an MTP target save perhaps GIgabeat S which USB doesn't run at all |
| 22:28:48 | XavierGr | that's why I am a little hesitant |
| 22:28:51 | linuxstb | szLacko: Even after you submit, people will comment, and you can make changes (or post clarification comments) |
| 22:28:58 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf () |
| 22:29:26 | gevaerts | XavierGr, linuxstb: while MTP is risky, it can be done (I think USB works well enough to at least make it working for "evaluation"). It's just that it might not work well enough to be enabled in the official builds |
| 22:30:38 | szLacko | Ok, thanks for the help! I go, and create a "beta" application... :) |
| 22:31:14 | desowin | linuxstb: rockbox as console? can you explain? |
| 22:31:24 | | Quit Buschel () |
| 22:31:35 | BigBambi | szLacko: cool :) |
| 22:31:55 | disorganizer | desowin: console APP |
| 22:32:06 | linuxstb | desowin: A console application - basically the sim with something like an ncurses UI |
| 22:32:08 | gevaerts | XavierGr: (thinking aloud) is this c240 on order now ? Maybe you can apply for more than one project, and let us know before the decision date if it's a v1 ? |
| 22:32:30 | gevaerts | If it isn't we just drop that application... |
| 22:32:47 | linuxstb | So either MTP or port Rockbox to the V2... |
| 22:33:06 | gevaerts | "do something interesting with a c240" ? |
| 22:33:08 | | Join Rincewind [0] (i=xKp3JfJL@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 22:33:21 | kugel | disorganizer: I think the major problem of the current bmp resize is, that it needs the smooth resize patch |
| 22:33:27 | | Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@dyndsl-085-016-163-203.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:33:46 | kugel | which is a) a plugin and/or b) raises the bin size too much when in core |
| 22:33:47 | linuxstb | XavierGr: Did you order from bigpockets.co.uk? |
| 22:33:47 | XavierGr | gevaerts: I am waiting for the said c240 as we speak, it was shipped on Monday |
| 22:33:57 | XavierGr | linuxstb: no eBay |
| 22:34:00 | disorganizer | kugel: and whats the problem with the smooth resize patch? |
| 22:34:05 | kugel | disorganizer: Nico_P played a bit with smooth resize in core |
| 22:34:14 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p54BF6E90.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:34:17 | kugel | disorganizer: I told you |
| 22:34:37 | XavierGr | they told me 5-7 shipment days so hopefully it should be here on Monday or Tuesday |
| 22:34:46 | | Join donutman25 [0] (n=chatzill@65.75.87.48) |
| 22:35:03 | disorganizer | kugel: when? |
| 22:35:16 | kugel | the comment above your last one |
| 22:35:21 | kugel | here in irc |
| 22:35:27 | gevaerts | XavierGr: from what I understand the decision deadline is on 2008-04-11, so this should be doable. Of course, it means more work for you (multiple applications...) |
| 22:36:08 | XavierGr | gevaerts: so you think it would be okay to make 2 applications, won't that be considered "weird" by some? |
| 22:36:18 | disorganizer | kugel: well, the width-limit is reset to lcd-width as it was before (all patches without were indeed experimental see comments). so thats a non-problem. btw: i have my sansa working with 500x500 bmp's flawlessly |
| 22:36:39 | kugel | "which is a) a plugin and/or b) raises the bin size too much when in core" |
| 22:37:07 | gevaerts | XavierGr: I can only speak for myself of course, but if you make it clear why you're doing this I don't think it is a problem. |
| 22:37:09 | kugel | core features shouldn't rely on plugins, and bin size increase is probably not worth the resize |
| 22:37:28 | * | gevaerts asks domonoky and linuxstb what they think about it |
| 22:37:44 | gevaerts | Or any other mentors who might be awake |
| 22:37:46 | kugel | disorganizer: This has been discussed several times, and I afaik some devs were in favor of committing |
| 22:38:20 | disorganizer | kugel: so lets leave smooth resizing out in the first commit and talk about it seperately :-) |
| 22:38:26 | linuxstb | gevaerts: I'm just looking to see if the google FAQ says anything about it... |
| 22:38:52 | linuxstb | "Yes, each student may submit up to twenty applications. However, only one application will be accepted. We've heard from our mentoring organizations that quality is better than quantity." |
| 22:39:08 | gevaerts | So it's up to us basically |
| 22:39:09 | kugel | disorganizer: Unfortunately I can't do anything to make the devs committing any patch |
| 22:39:16 | XavierGr | ah nice |
| 22:39:34 | disorganizer | kugel: no, but we can ask nicely what would be needed to get it commitable |
| 22:39:56 | linuxstb | XavierGr: What's the second project you may apply for? (if MTP is #1) |
| 22:40:04 | gevaerts | Of course, even if it is a v1, people might still select the other project... |
| 22:40:14 | XavierGr | I will make a draft for both of them tonight and hopefully will submit them tomorrow |
| 22:40:19 | kugel | disorganizer: afaik the main argument against the commit was that the pc is a much better platform to resize the bitmaps |
| 22:40:25 | XavierGr | linuxstb: port of Rockbox to v2 sanca c240 |
| 22:40:37 | domonoky | XavierGr: feel free to make as many application as you want and can. |
| 22:40:41 | gevaerts | And implement mtp for that one ;) ? |
| 22:40:48 | disorganizer | kugel: my counter argument is that 100*100 in diskspace is less than 150*150 |
| 22:40:50 | XavierGr | (if it is a v2 it will be unusable to me so it will be a nice motivation) |
| 22:41:10 | kugel | disorganizer: I like to have it committed to |
| 22:41:25 | XavierGr | gevaerts: sure, why not, if I manage to port Rockbox on it then it shouldn't be more difficult than that :P |
| 22:41:27 | kugel | But I understand if devs don't think the feature is worth the bin size increase |
| 22:41:39 | bluebrother | it has long been an argument that static tasks are better done in prior |
| 22:42:08 | XavierGr | well even if I don't get accepted at least it might help Rockbox, I don't want to see the project with too few applications |
| 22:42:21 | linuxstb | XavierGr: You're allowed up to 20 ;) |
| 22:42:23 | gevaerts | bluebrother: static tasks like decoding an mp3 file to PCM ? |
| 22:42:29 | disorganizer | bluebrother: another argument is: the less user-noticable changes are offered by custom builds, the less of such builds will exist |
| 22:42:31 | bluebrother | gevaerts: hehe ;-) |
| 22:42:33 | | Quit ceclin ("This computer has gone to sleep") |
| 22:42:36 | XavierGr | domonoky, gevaerts, linuxstb: thanks for the info |
| 22:42:50 | BigBambi | My argument for bmp resize is the ability to use different WPSs with different sized album art without many different bmps for each album |
| 22:43:00 | bluebrother | disorganizer: well, I don't care about unsupported builds. |
| 22:43:03 | disorganizer | gevaerts: or making playlists :-) |
| 22:43:17 | kugel | disorganizer: Agree, bmp resize is one of the main resize that I keep up my custom build |
| 22:43:37 | * | gevaerts deletes half of the source tree |
| 22:43:37 | BigBambi | And the ability to put on a new WPS without having to rerun a script on my entire collection to generate another different size |
| 22:43:47 | | Join mikus [0] (n=5316d7b9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-cc8c4801498a2517) |
| 22:43:48 | kugel | bluebrother: but you care about that users use them instead of the official one |
| 22:43:49 | BigBambi | * of album art |
| 22:44:13 | disorganizer | bluebrother: problem there is possible incompatibility of syntax and function of themes though |
| 22:44:16 | bluebrother | kugel: only if they want to get support. |
| 22:44:53 | disorganizer | the "small changes" like menus etc are irrelevant, but for me as user it is inconvienient to have themes running on one build but not on another |
| 22:45:10 | | Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 22:45:24 | kugel | JdGordon|zzz: ping |
| 22:45:28 | disorganizer | atm there are only 2 "big" differences: multifont and bmp-resize |
| 22:45:44 | kugel | customlist! :P |
| 22:45:53 | linuxstb | Does bmp resize change any WPS tags? |
| 22:46:03 | disorganizer | kugel: well, cl is not too common just now. |
| 22:46:11 | kugel | But I made the patch to get committed! And not to stay in my build forever |
| 22:46:22 | disorganizer | linuxstb: i think there is one more alignment-tag. |
| 22:47:05 | kugel | linuxstb: bmp resize doesn't change the syntax very much, afaik it just changes the default behaviour to resize |
| 22:47:12 | disorganizer | linuxstb: im not sure whether its still "incompatible" but i think it has been made compatible now. not sure though |
| 22:47:34 | disorganizer | in the beginning the "zoom" tag was needed, thus resulting in invalid wps for svn |
| 22:47:44 | kugel | linuxstb: so if the user does only %Cl|10|10|100|100 it will resize by default |
| 22:47:48 | * | linuxstb wonders if that was a yes or a no |
| 22:47:50 | disorganizer | now the default is changed to "zoom" (or resize i think) |
| 22:48:05 | * | bluebrother would like Rockbox becoming stable instead of fancy |
| 22:48:10 | disorganizer | it was a "no not any more" |
| 22:48:16 | kugel | linuxstb: it doesn't remove tags or parameters |
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| 22:48:54 | linuxstb | bluebrother: I would like the theme/wps syntax to become stable - to avoid the 100s of themes which are incompatible with official builds and confuse users. |
| 22:49:03 | disorganizer | bluebrother: so stop making major changes which break the basics :-) |
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| 22:49:31 | kugel | I'd like a tracker cleanup week again actually |
| 22:49:37 | * | disorganizer too |
| 22:49:42 | bluebrother | linuxstb: I agree, this would be nice. |
| 22:49:59 | * | bluebrother thought about bringing that topic (tracker cleanup) up already |
| 22:50:20 | | Quit MethoS-- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:50:59 | linuxstb | bluebrother: What do you think about the idea to limit feature request creation to developers only? |
| 22:51:04 | kugel | bluebrother: So I did that now for you :P |
| 22:51:08 | | Quit leox (Connection timed out) |
| 22:51:49 | kugel | linuxstb: I don't actually like the idea, eventhough 95% of the feature requests are just stupid |
| 22:52:04 | disorganizer | imho if we need new wps/theme syntax (like viewportification of whatever), we should make it ready until the new gallery comes up |
| 22:52:28 | linuxstb | kugel: The point is that the feature tracker is useless at the moment... |
| 22:52:31 | disorganizer | linuxstb: anyways some way for users to put up "feature requests" should be there, if only its a forum thread |
| 22:52:51 | BigBambi | They are just ignored... |
| 22:52:56 | kugel | I agree, but I'd rather completely remove it then |
| 22:53:17 | BigBambi | kugel: It is useful for devs to keep track of ideas |
| 22:53:19 | kugel | I think excluding the userbase from contributing with their ideas isn't the right way |
| 22:53:30 | n1s | linuxstb: I think only allowing FR's for devs is good seeing how the situation is in the tracker and how many of those actually get implemented... |
| 22:53:40 | disorganizer | what about allowing the users to open feature requests in a special subforum and discuss them. if a dev thinks they are good he/she can close the forum thread and instead open a FS entry |
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| 22:54:17 | disorganizer | that way we would have user discussion about feature requests, so the devs can also see which features are wanted and which are just nice to have |
| 22:54:39 | disorganizer | also devs could explain there why some fr's cant become reality |
| 22:55:20 | n1s | IMHO having user feature requests in the tracker and most (all?) devs ignoring them is worse than disallowing them for non devs |
| 22:55:45 | disorganizer | i was talking about the forum, not fs |
| 22:55:58 | n1s | disorganizer: the vast majority of requests _can_ become reality if someone is interested in them... |
| 22:56:22 | bluebrother | linuxstb: well, if we tell users to discuss feature requests here first this sounds interesting |
| 22:56:48 | n1s | but i think that what you suggested is how it will work, informal requests can still be made and anyone is free to discuss in the forum or here |
| 22:57:22 | disorganizer | bluebrother: though the discussion via forum will reach more users |
| 22:57:42 | disorganizer | and users will prefer searching the forum rathe r than the chatlogs :-) |
| 22:57:59 | bluebrother | discussion in the forums is fine too ... just discuss it, and if it turns out to be a good idea some dev can still add it to the tracker |
| 22:58:08 | BigBambi | disorganizer: Users but not devs |
| 22:58:19 | linuxstb | I don't think we want a dedicated forum either - feature ideas can be posted in the relevant sub-forum (e.g. plugins, playback...), and I'm sure will quite often come up in other threads. |
| 22:58:43 | * | BigBambi sees the forums turning into flyspray |
| 22:58:45 | bluebrother | yep ... and discussion among devs will happen here anyway. |
| 22:58:55 | BigBambi | And just getting horribly cluttered in turn |
| 22:59:05 | BigBambi | It is just moving the problem IMO |
| 22:59:26 | disorganizer | linuxstb: though a dedicated forum will make it easier to find and filter existing fr's. |
| 22:59:30 | bluebrother | cut down users from feature requests at all? Doesn't sound like a better solution to me |
| 22:59:44 | BigBambi | If they are in the same sub forum, tech support will get lost in amongst all the ideas |
| 22:59:54 | disorganizer | imho some interesting fr's could go unnoticed in the other chatter in normal forums. |
| 23:00 |
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| 23:00:21 | bluebrother | we could have a (read-only) subforum with feature requests that have been discussed and either rejected or moved to the tracker. |
| 23:00:32 | * | disorganizer didnt mean forum but subforum |
| 23:00:40 | linuxstb | This all seems too much work... |
| 23:00:43 | * | gevaerts finds the information FS #8830 very interesting, even (or because) if he doesn't understand hardware well enough to really know what it means |
| 23:00:49 | n1s | the point is that we don't want to have a 'place' for requests as that implies anyone will look at them (AFAIU) |
| 23:01:02 | gevaerts | s/information/information in/ |
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| 23:01:17 | BigBambi | I wouldn't object to a sub forum, but I think mixing feature requests into the existing forums would greatly reduce their usefulness |
| 23:01:31 | linuxstb | If we leave the feature requests open, I think we need to be clearer about when to close them. People seem too quick to reject requests that are technically possible. |
| 23:01:33 | | Quit MethoS- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 23:02:36 | * | linuxstb counts 477 open feature requests on the tracker... |
| 23:02:54 | disorganizer | BigBambi: exactly my point. also a FR will be unnoticed when just inside a 10 page thread. but if we officially say "put all fr's in the subforum for feature requests and seach before you post" will have them in a defined place. |
| 23:03:08 | | Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:03:14 | linuxstb | disorganizer: You think feature requests are noticed on flyspray? |
| 23:03:18 | n1s | linuxstb: If we only close impossible and clearly unwanted requests the amount will grow forever if the pace they are implemented remains as it is now |
| 23:03:33 | disorganizer | linuxstb: no, but they could be on a dedicated forum |
| 23:03:38 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey (SendQ exceeded) |
| 23:03:45 | linuxstb | disorganizer: Why would that be different to flyspray? |
| 23:03:49 | bluebrother | linuxstb: maybe people are too quick at rejecting, but having that many open request doesn't help either. |
| 23:04:14 | disorganizer | well, if the top discussion in the forum is a feature request, every day, maybe some day a dev will look at it :- |
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| 23:04:51 | BigBambi | I don't know whether it'd make feature requests better, I just don't want to make the forums worse |
| 23:04:53 | disorganizer | also, uninteresting fr's will go down the list soon. so the top threads will be obviously the most interesting features. |
| 23:05:09 | bluebrother | we could also create some policy about strictly closing feature requests −− like stuff that most likely won't happen the next year will get closed as "later" |
| 23:05:15 | disorganizer | BigBambi: well, if its on a won subforum, where is the harm? |
| 23:05:17 | BigBambi | I don't personally want to have to read through loads of threads of feature requests to find and answer a support one |
| 23:05:35 | BigBambi | disorganizer: subforum is fine, but what is the difference to flyspray? |
| 23:06:03 | disorganizer | BigBambi: none. fs is then only for fr's which got generally accepted for implementation |
| 23:06:15 | | Quit Feisar (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:06:24 | disorganizer | fs of tomorrow= fr only from devs, fr's of users to its own subforum |
| 23:06:38 | BigBambi | disorganizer: Which will just be ignored |
| 23:06:50 | disorganizer | well, like now, no? |
| 23:06:55 | * | n1s already ignores most of the forum :) |
| 23:07:01 | BigBambi | It would make flyspray moe useful for devs though |
| 23:07:06 | | Join Feisar [0] (n=jljhook@mun.irkki.fi) |
| 23:07:43 | disorganizer | my words |
| 23:08:31 | * | bluebrother curses DST :( |
| 23:09:09 | * | gevaerts just tries to live with it. Stupid politicians! |
| 23:11:21 | | Quit petur ("*blam*") |
| 23:11:49 | disorganizer | "The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it." Terry Pratchett |
| 23:15:01 | Bagder | now we're at 9 gsoc applications |
| 23:15:35 | n1s | I don't see the problem as flyspray becoming less useful, rather the feature request system is not useful since devs ignore the requests so it seems like we tell users to file requests and they will be considered but they are in fact not. |
| 23:16:31 | n1s | Bagder: great news! any interesting applications? :) |
| 23:17:07 | Bagder | I think a few have potential, yes |
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| 23:17:59 | * | amiconn likes dst |
| 23:18:40 | * | gevaerts gives amiconn a strange look |
| 23:18:56 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:20:52 | * | Hodapp gives amiconn a strange look |
| 23:20:52 | * | disorganizer needs to get some sleep |
| 23:21:03 | disorganizer | good night @ all |
| 23:21:09 | | Quit MethoS (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 23:21:26 | | Quit disorganizer ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]") |
| 23:22:52 | gevaerts | Bagder: I don't mind (re. 'Rockbox mobile application') |
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| 23:29:27 | * | gevaerts wants to know what the timestamps near the gsoc application comments are supposed to represent. They seem to be in some weird timezone |
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| 23:34:05 | scorche | pixelma: am now |
| 23:35:43 | * | countrymonkey prays that 8496 will be committed soon. |
| 23:36:35 | pixelma | scorche: wanted to ask you about rockbox-themes but the actual question (worth it to replace the cabbiev2 packages in the WpsGallery) was already answered in the forums now |
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| 23:39:38 | countrymonkey | Is there a possibility that 8496 can be committed? It hasn't been touched since its posting in January. |
| 23:43:23 | bluebrother | that patch inserts some strange character at various points |
| 23:43:44 | * | bluebrother wonders if this is just displayed strangely in his browser |
| 23:44:23 | bluebrother | ah, seems to be a BOM?! |
| 23:45:18 | | Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:46:05 | bluebrother | shouldn't such a line get updated autmatically once the master is changed? |
| 23:50:17 | pixelma | no, it'll show up as difference the next time you run genlang on the file (IIRC) |
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| 23:56:28 | phinze | hello rockbox! i'm putting together a GSoC proposal and i'm wondering if anyone who's around would be willing to help me figure out which one would best suit my skills and rockbox's needs |
| 23:56:32 | | Quit webguest70 (Client Quit) |
| 23:57:20 | | Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 23:57:51 | | Quit perrikwp (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:57:56 | gevaerts | phinze: do you have some personal preference ? Also it might help if you tell us a bit about your experience in various domains |
| 23:58:39 | phinze | sure, i'm a graduating CS undergrad with a lot of experience in embedded systems research/implementation |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).