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#rockbox log for 2008-03-31

00:00:14*BigBambi was just about ask if you were familiar with Rockbox :)
00:00:25linuxstbphinze: Do any of the ideas on our wiki interest you? Or do you have your own suggestion(s)?
00:00:44phinzeone question that popped into my mind was about the scrollbar on the H10, which is still only implemented as up/down buttons... what's preventing that from working as it is meant to?
00:01:38 Quit piga ("Leaving")
00:01:46linuxstbI know there are issues with the button driver, but I'm not sure what you mean by "meant to"?
00:02:00 Join CyBergRind|w [0] (n=cbr@212.98.160.130)
00:02:27BHSPitLappydangit, this guy's gonna knock me out of the running
00:02:35phinzewell... as i don't have an ipod i don't know how the scroll wheel works in rockbox... but i would imagine it would be similar
00:02:54phinzemoving your finger up and down the tracking area moves the cursor
00:03:01phinzerather than the top just being up and the bottom being down
00:03:17BigBambithe scroll wheel scrolls as you move your finger round it
00:03:48Nico_Pphinze: there's a patch in the tracker that attempts to improve that, but it's not good enough yet
00:03:54markunphinze: the gigabeat could also use any such improvements
00:03:59markunand soon the meizu
00:04:01phinzeBigBambi: right, so the scroll bar would be like the scroll wheel unrolled and mounted vertically
00:04:21phinzegotchya
00:04:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:04:37BigBambithe gigabeat could do with the stupid cross being ripped out and replaced by something sensible (like a tactile one)
00:04:42bluebrotherdon't forget the mrobe100 ;-)
00:04:56phinzehaha
00:04:57markunBigBambi: you buy another player man
00:05:06BigBambimarkun: I have 5
00:05:14phinzeone for each finger?
00:05:30gevaertsBigBambi: that means you're the type to buy another one
00:05:30markun(if you have only 1 hand)
00:05:35scorcheBigBambi: you only have...bah
00:05:40BigBambiAnd when the beast port is completed it'll replace the F as my day-to-day player
00:06:16BHSPitLappyscorche, how much is being looked for in the abstracts/descriptions?
00:06:35scorcheBHSPitLappy: in terms of number of chars?
00:06:44gevaertsphinze: anyway, I don't think getting a scrollbar working is worth a GSoC project ;)
00:06:50BHSPitLappyscorche, well, I know the character limits :)
00:06:57BHSPitLappygeneral detail level / wordcount
00:07:13phinzegevaerts: thanks that's what i was wondering
00:07:29scorchebe as detailed as you can without going over the limit
00:07:38BHSPitLappyphinze, perhaps try porting rockbox to run on Linksys routers
00:07:43*phinze goes back to the list and strokes his chin
00:07:47phinzeBHSPitLappy: haha
00:07:54phinzethat would be ... interesting
00:07:55scorcheif you answer our template and have a bit more, that should put you around the limit
00:08:27gevaertsphinze: have you ever done anything with USB ?
00:08:42phinzei haven't, but that doesn't me that i can't ;)
00:08:46phinze*mean
00:09:07phinzethinking about MTP? or iPod fakery?
00:09:33gevaertsI think iPod fakery might be hard (and I personally don't care about that)
00:09:49*scorche would rather see soemthign useful to most/all targets
00:09:59*phinze agrees
00:09:59markunlike usb audio :)
00:10:18phinzemarkun: what does that entail?
00:10:26*gevaerts counts portalplayer targets
00:11:24markunphinze: being able to use a player as a soundcard, when you are at a place where there is none (like my office PC)
00:11:39phinzeooo
00:11:44phinzefancy
00:11:49gevaertsIt should be possible
00:12:59phinzehmm...
00:13:06gevaertsBasically, it would work on PortalPlayer targets, and the Gigabeat S (once people find out how to enable USB there).
00:14:24 Join z35 [0] (n=z@149.123.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com)
00:14:28phinzeso the player needs to show up to the host as a USB soundcard?
00:14:56gevaertsThere are two caveat with that : we still have reliability problems with USB, and we have no idea when those will be solved. Another is that it uses USB isochronous transfers, which is something we have not done yet, so it might present unexpected difficulties
00:16:10gevaertsphinze: yes. I actually will probably commit some changes soon that makes the player show up as a USB soundcard without any features (no output, no input,...). That's the easy part...
00:16:47phinzegevaerts: those sound like Rather Serious Issues, especially USB reliability
00:17:00phinzehow often do problems show up?
00:17:54 Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]")
00:18:39gevaertsphinze: depends. What actually seems to happen is that the USB controller can't access RAM fast enough (DMA) if the CPU is doing too much at the same time. It seems more of a problem on PP5022 than on PP5020, so it might work pretty well on H10
00:18:44 Quit cbr|w (Connection timed out)
00:19:55gevaertsphinze: right now, it means that USB storage works well for some people, reasonably well for some others, and not at all for others
00:20:02phinzegotchya, so the result would then be corrupted data? is it detectable?
00:20:39phinzegevaerts: i've never had trouble with mounting my H10
00:20:53 Quit perrikwp (Remote closed the connection)
00:21:15BigBambiphinze: Have you enabled the USB stack then? As by default it isn't on (and you have had to transfer via the OF)
00:21:23gevaertsNot corrupted data. What happens is that USB packets get shortly interrupted, which makes the entire packet fail if the host enforces strict timing constraints. If that happens too often there is basically no connection
00:22:09*gevaerts adds one caveat. If the connection drops halfway through, and doesn't recover, of course you can have some corrupted data...
00:22:11phinzeBigBambi: this is where my lack of knowledge of rockbox's internals is going to embarrass me
00:22:17 Quit mimimati (Remote closed the connection)
00:22:24phinzeBigBambi: OF? refers to emergency connection mode?
00:22:28gevaertsphinze: what revision are you using ?
00:22:56BigBambiphinze: To use the recently new USB stack, you need to add a couple of defines to the make file before building (or to the platform config file)
00:22:56*phinze pulls out h10
00:22:57 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00:23:00*gevaerts remembers the bug that enabled usb storage on H10 unintentionally.
00:23:05BigBambiphinze: OF = original firmware
00:23:21phinzeBigBambi: thanks :)
00:23:58 Join perrikwp [0] (i=4aa794a0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1d079a1561281af8)
00:24:27gevaertsWith USB audio, you could do all sorts of things like using the FM radio as input, or even using codec output as PC input, adjusting volume on the player remotely,...
00:25:26phinzegevaerts: that does sound pretty cool. so in your mind importance(USB Audio) > importance(MTP) ?
00:25:36gevaertsActually, we don't seem to have those reliability problems on outgoing packets, which are what you use if you want to play music, so these problems might not really be an issue
00:26:16gevaertsphinze: for me personally, yes. I don't care about MTP. Of course others may disagree...
00:26:38*gevaerts adds a disclaimer : he has only be on the project for less than two months, and has only done USB
00:26:45*BigBambi couldn't care less about MTP, but isn't a dev, so don't put any weight on my opinion :)
00:27:49gevaertsI think MTP is not useful as such, but it would allow to update the database for new files more efficiently, which is interesting
00:28:19phinzeyeah that makes sense. so significantly less exciting. ;)
00:29:03phinzeBigBambi: running r16756
00:29:15linuxstbI think that if you're syncing from a database-driven media player on a PC, to Rockbox (and you want to use Rockbox's database), MTP makes sense. Not that I would use it...
00:30:50phinzeBigBambi: i always use emergency connection (aka OF) before connecting... you're telling me i can connect without rebooting?
00:31:14*phinze bounces up and down in anticipation
00:31:15szLackoGSOC question: If I'm interested in more then one project of Rockbox, should I prepare applications for every projects, or one summing all my interest is enough?
00:31:15gevaertsphinze: if you make your own builds, and set the correct stuff, you can
00:31:32 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:31:33scorcheszLacko: one per project please
00:31:36BigBambiphinze: Not by default, Rockbox's USB mode isn't yet anabled (for the reason gevaerts has said)
00:31:41phinzesweet!
00:31:52BigBambis/anabled/enabled
00:31:53phinzei'd love to test it at the very least
00:31:58szLackoscorche: Thanks!
00:32:02gevaertsphinze: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PortalPlayerUsb has the details
00:32:42phinzegevaerts: it's all making sense now... i read that page and i was like, "but USB works fine for me"
00:32:58phinzenow i get that it's OF USB i was using
00:33:16phinzealways learning (and making a fool of myself in front of the rockbox community) ;)
00:33:21BigBambi:)
00:33:30gevaertsWe all do from time to time
00:33:42*phinze runs afk for 2 min
00:33:43 Join preglow [0] (i=thomj@tvilling2.pvv.ntnu.no)
00:33:55bluebrotherinteresting. Building cli interface of rbutil shows warnings on voicefont that the gui build doesn't
00:35:26 Quit countrymonkey ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:40:19*phinze is loving that rockboxdev.sh will build a crosscompiler for him
00:41:45scorcheit makes things a bit easier :)
00:42:23phinzegevaerts: alright, i'm digging this idea... do you think it's a feasible GSoC project scope-wise?
00:42:38phinze(or anyone who might have knowledge)
00:43:58gevaertsIt's hard to be sure. I think it can be done, but I'm not sure if it will be enough work for GSoC. Of course, it's been a while since I was a student, and I know USB reasonably well, so I might be wrong
00:44:40gevaertsBut I don't think you need to know that much about USB for this...
00:45:00phinzeright, i'd have to get up to speed on USB... but i'm a pretty fast learner (as they all say i'm sure heh)
00:45:14*gevaerts is notoriously bad at estimating workloads
00:45:36phinzegevaerts: can you quick 'splain the difference between mass storage support and logf()?
00:46:33gevaertsEasy. Mass storage is what gives you a drive, logf is the internal debug message mechanism, which you can route over USB these days. You won't need logf for now
00:47:50 Quit Rincewind ("bye")
00:48:42*bluebrother wonders if gevaerts had usb debugging hardware while implementing the driver
00:49:44 Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]")
00:49:46*gevaerts had (and still has) access to hardware usb tracers
00:50:13bluebrotherah. Nice :)
00:50:41*bluebrother was working with a firewire tracer during internship a few years ago
00:51:09 Quit waldo ("Konversation terminated!")
00:51:14gevaertsThis is of course an issue, but I think that the modern linux usbmon+wireshark setup works pretty well (or corresponding tools on Windows). They don't really help you for low-level issues, but this project shouldn't run into those
00:51:43phinzegevaerts: so the USB driver is essentially *yours*?
00:52:04 Quit goffa (Remote closed the connection)
00:52:12BigBambiAnd no-one else can use it! :P
00:52:35linuxstbYes, he's introduced a bug to stop others using it...
00:52:59amiconnThere must be some bus priority registers...
00:54:37gevaertsdepends on how you look at it. The controller driver was basically there when I started (i.e. the low level hardware stuff), but I did a bit of work on that. The layer up (chapter 9 in USB terms) was also mostly there, and the changes I did there are bigger. The usb storage driver was started when I came into the project, but did not contain very much. I basically finished what others started
00:55:14phinzelinuxstb: well i'll be seeing about that once this crosscompiler finishes building :)
00:55:20gevaertsamiconn: yes, but where ?
00:55:39amiconnSomewhere in the system controller range, I'd guess
00:55:45phinzesounds like the H10 is a good platform to try it on though
00:56:00*gevaerts was very happy that other people typed in all these boring register address #defines for him :)
00:56:37*phinze hopes that devs don't give their SoCer all that typing work ;)
00:57:05gevaertsThey do :)
00:57:46amiconnEither somewhere in the 0x600060xx range, or (more likely, guesses) the 0x700000xx range
00:58:32gevaertsIndeed. So now someone has to look through some OF to find all accesses in those ranges and cross out those that are known I guess
00:59:22amiconnEither that, or try to run some OF's diskmode on the emulator and log the register accesses
00:59:43 Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection)
01:00
01:00:08amiconnThere are whole ranges which are known to exist but unresearched otherwise
01:01:10*gevaerts really needs to learn to understand ARM fluently
01:02:54 Quit ender` (" Some people have some weird fetishes. Which is fine. Then they take photos of them, which is not.")
01:03:14 Join Branden\Shower\ [0] (n=Branden@pool-72-72-57-104.bstnma.east.verizon.net)
01:03:46*amiconn learned all 3 asm dialects, as well as disassembly-based RE, during his rockbox work
01:03:48Branden\Shower\Hi there, can someone tell me if this will work on the iPod Classic 5th Generation?
01:04:00 Nick Branden\Shower\ is now known as Branden (n=Branden@pool-72-72-57-104.bstnma.east.verizon.net)
01:04:40kugelYes for 5th Gen, no for Classic ;)
01:05:03Brandenaw. :( Is there any hacks for the Classic?
01:05:10bluebrotherBranden: no
01:05:11gevaertsamiconn: are you using IDA ? I'm considering it, but I really don't know how useful it is
01:05:22kugelWhat are you using now? I was expecting 5th gen
01:05:27gevaertsBranden: is it 5th gen or classic ?
01:05:41Branden:S Good question, I feel dumb, how can I find out?
01:05:53kugelWhen did you buy it?
01:05:55bluebrotheris it 160GB? Then it's a classic
01:05:58BrandenBest Buy.
01:06:05BrandenIts an 80 Gig.
01:06:05kugel"When"
01:06:13 Join tessarakt [0] (n=jens@e180067209.adsl.alicedsl.de)
01:06:15BrandenOh, sorry. Less then a year ago.
01:06:22BrandenAcauly, like in January.
01:06:35bluebrotherthe IpodFAQ page also holds a link to an apple page which describes the differences
01:06:59bluebrotherhttp://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61688
01:07:19kugelBranden: Do a google image search for ipod 5th gen and ipod classic to determine alternativly
01:07:22Brandenty
01:07:43bluebrotherthe apple page makes it even easier: check the serial number
01:07:45kugelApple's page should be more reliable though
01:07:59bluebrother(it also holds images of the various players ;)
01:08:34BrandenIts classic. :[
01:08:35stripwax_If the front is completely flat, it's a 5g. if the top and side edges of the front panel are rounded down towards the sides then it's a classic
01:08:53 Nick stripwax_ is now known as stripwax (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
01:09:15 Quit bluebrother ("sleep ...")
01:09:52BrandenYeah, its a classic, are there any hacks for the classic to change the colors and stuff?
01:10:04stripwaxnot here in rockbox
01:10:05 Quit axionix (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:10:30stripwaxi don't know if there are any non-rockbox 'hacks' available, either
01:10:35BrandenOk, thanks.
01:10:38 Quit Branden ()
01:11:46 Join gevaerts_ [0] (n=fg@195-144-092-177.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be)
01:12:09 Quit gevaerts (Nick collision from services.)
01:12:17 Nick gevaerts_ is now known as gevaerts (n=fg@195-144-092-177.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be)
01:12:19 Quit knittl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:13:23 Join saratoga [0] (n=41becb3b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-9f13aebb8ae5c76e)
01:13:54saratogaso how are the GSOC applications looking?
01:14:16BHSPitLappyworking on mine...
01:14:29 Join csc` [0] (n=csc@archlinux/user/csc)
01:14:55gevaertsWe have 8 real ones, some better than others
01:15:09BHSPitLappyis there a predefined number of slots for rockbox's presence? I think we mentioned this last night, but I was tired :)
01:15:17gevaertsNo
01:15:29saratogai think its based on how many people apply
01:15:47saratogathough i didn't get a straight answer when i asked
01:16:01BHSPitLappyso if I apply from a bunch of dummy accounts, I'll have a better shot at getting my real app accepted? :P
01:16:04kugelJust a question: Why didn't project news say that m:robe and iaudio m3 are now officially suported?
01:16:29saratogaprobably no one remembered to update it
01:16:29 Quit saratoga (Client Quit)
01:16:35 Join saratoga [0] (n=41becb3b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-1b0bfe0d4f987f29)
01:16:58kugelsomeone should do it imo, new targets are allways an important news
01:18:23*phinze pats his poor little G4 as it compiles gcc... and burns his hand
01:18:31gevaerts:)
01:18:48saratogaso are any of the applications looking interesting?
01:19:22 Quit daurnimator (No route to host)
01:19:47scorchesaratoga: the process is linked to from the FAQ
01:20:18 Quit BHSPitLappy (Remote closed the connection)
01:21:00saratogaalso i'm surprised to hear resampling mentioned as a task, i'd think a simple cubic or even lancoz resampler should be straightforward
01:22:57 Join newby [0] (n=newby@ip68-7-12-123.sd.sd.cox.net)
01:22:57 Quit newby (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:23:29 Join ukl [0] (n=stephan@e176236152.adsl.alicedsl.de)
01:23:50*gevaerts will have to go to sleep Real Soon Now :(
01:24:37 Join Thundercloud__ [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk)
01:24:51saratogagevaerts: i've been meaning to ask you, did you ever look at using that USB analyser tool again ?
01:25:20gevaertssaratoga: I'm not sure what you mean...
01:25:50saratogayou had mentioned using some sort of analyiser to look at signal quality for rockbox usb
01:26:02*gevaerts remembers
01:26:28saratogai'm curious what happened with that
01:27:29gevaertsThat was basically a "normal" oscilloscope. I tried using it, but doing signal quality tests requires a working usb test mode which we don't have. However, we are now reasonably confident on where the problems come from
01:28:29*phinze wonders if gevaerts noticed his pm
01:29:02gevaertsIt's basically timing. The USB controller can't access RAM fast enough when other parts of the system are also doing RAM-intensive things. The current guess is that there is a register somewhere that sets the priority for RAM acceses
01:29:12saratogagevaerts: how does that mode work? just produce a few test tones of known voltage and frequency?
01:30:06gevaertssaratoga: actually there are several. Some are just a fixed level (logical 0 or 1), others are worst-case signal patterns
01:30:16gevaertsphinze: I didn't get anything
01:30:43saratogaalso, perhaps a stupid question, but you can't use the 48-80kb of IRAM available on the PP targets instead of DRAM?
01:30:56 Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@pool-68-239-199-99.nwrk.east.verizon.net)
01:31:00phinzegevaerts: odd... well i just wanted to ask before you headed to bed if you'd mind my getting in touch with you if i had any questions while fleshing out this proposal
01:31:17gevaertssaratoga: I tried. That doesn't seem to work at all
01:31:21phinzeas you seem to be the Resident Expert in the area :)
01:31:34saratogahow odd, i would expect IRAM to work better then DRAM
01:31:35 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
01:31:41amiconnI guess the usb dma can't access iram then
01:31:47scorchephinze: you need to be registered and identified on freenode in order to send PMs to all...otherwise, you can only send them to folk who filter their PMs which all do by default...i am guessing that gevaerts hasnt changed that to unfiltered
01:32:02phinzescorche: ahh thank you
01:32:04gevaertsIndeed.
01:32:21amiconnNot uncommon that some memory areas aren't dma capable (e.g. also the secondary block of iram in the mcf5249 and mcf5250)
01:33:32gevaertsAnyway, feel free to contact me.
01:35:27 Join Bagder_ [0] (n=daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se)
01:36:13*phinze is now an Official Freenode User :)
01:37:14 Join bird603568 [0] (n=bird@c-71-58-107-102.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
01:38:17bird603568im just wondering have you guys figured out the encoding on the sansa v2 yet?
01:38:49kugelBagder: Just read your blog about the fuze. Did I understand it correctly, that the fuze is pretty much the same player as the e200 v2?
01:40:16kugelI'm wondering about the display. It has the same resolution as the e200's, just rotated. May it even be the same display?
01:41:14 Quit n1s ()
01:41:17 Join _Bagder_ [0] (n=daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se)
01:41:17saratogabird603568: Bagder, I and one other person figured out most of it and posted about it to the V2 thread in the New Ports forum, but no V2 owners took interest so I don't believe anyone has done much with it
01:41:39bird603568what do you need help with?
01:41:44phinzeso i believe i've built HEAD with the USB stack
01:42:05phinzeand alas, no mount on OS X 10.4.11
01:42:07bird603568<−− v2 owner and intrested but dont know if i can help
01:42:21gevaertsWhat happens instead ?
01:42:24phinzei get a little icon when i plug in USB, but nothing on my mac
01:42:33 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection)
01:42:36 Quit sarixe ("(EE) Failed to load "quit" module")
01:42:38phinzenothing immediately noticeable that is
01:42:46saratogabird603568: much of the firmware update format is understood, but not all
01:43:00saratogasomeone needs to take an interest in it, finish the work, and then start porting rockbox
01:43:01phinzeunless... double checking instructions
01:43:02bird603568errr i dont think i can helo there
01:43:08*gevaerts remembers suddenly
01:43:13bird603568help*
01:43:26gevaertsphinze: on H10 I believe you have to hold "right" while plugging in
01:43:31bird603568damn and i was looking forward to a rockbox port too
01:44:02 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:44:23*phinze had just clicked "reconnect mass storage" on debug menu and got a large USB graphic
01:44:37*phinze now attempting plugin with button hold
01:45:06phinzebingo!
01:45:54gevaertsSo now I can go to sleep safely ?
01:46:17phinzereal 0m0.778suser 0m0.045ssys 0m0.083s
01:46:22bird603568saratoga: whats "the work"
01:46:25phinzels -R over /Volumes/H10
01:46:32kugelbird603568: I'd probably getting a Fuze (which uses to have the same SoC as the e200 v2), if an upgrade from e200 v1 would be worth it
01:46:34phinzegevaerts: i think so, thanks again for everything
01:46:42*gevaerts goes to sleep
01:46:47phinzenight!
01:46:49 Quit gevaerts ("sleeping time")
01:47:00bird603568what?
01:47:10saratogabird603568: figure out the firmware update process well enough that modified firmware can be loaded
01:47:29saratogahave you read the 2 threads on the V2 sansas in the New Ports forum?
01:47:36bird603568man i wish i knew how to do that
01:47:37bird603568nope
01:47:49bird603568havent really been following it
01:47:57bird603568just popped in to see how things are going
01:48:32bird603568ill go look now
01:49:36saratogahow cheap can you get a V2 sansa anyway?
01:50:02bird603568i have a sansav2
01:50:09bird603568i got the 8 gig for 120$ i think
01:50:39saratogathats not very cheap
01:50:46bird603568there are smaller ones
01:50:59bird603568i wanted 8 gigs since thats holds almost 1/2 of my music
01:51:06bird603568and it was 10$ more than the 4gig
01:51:12bird603568i think the 1 gig is 90$
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01:51:47arnathhi, anyone know if the sansa e200v2 series will be supported any time soon?
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01:51:51bird603568lol
01:52:06krazykitarnath, there are no time frames for new ports.
01:52:28arnathkrazykit: but there must be a list of what is actively being developped, right?
01:52:31 Join Bagder [241] (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder)
01:52:48krazykitarnath, please read the pertinent wiki page and threads on the New Ports forum for everything that's been done
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01:53:07bird603568the 2gb version is 75$ saratoga
01:54:21arnathkrazykit: ok thanks
01:54:23saratogaarnath: we're talkign about that right now, and as I just said, theres no one working on the V2
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01:54:32arnatho :(
01:54:45arnathwhat are the odds that if i step into a store tomorrow, that it's still a v1?
01:55:05arnath(i looked on the site of the store, but it doesn't mention the firmware it seems)
01:55:13bird603568very low
01:55:23bird603568they stopped selling them in december
01:55:31bird603568i thought id luck out and get a v1 but didnt
01:55:53saratogaV1s are still all over ebay
01:55:53bird603568its the hardware
01:56:06saratogai think no one is working on the V2 since the V1s are so easy to get
01:56:22arnathebay is a bit trickier over here (belgium) :P
01:56:36arnathbesides, electronics stuff, i rather get new then second hand
01:56:43bird603568exactly
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01:57:30arnathtoo bad though, i really want a sandisk and i really want rockbox :(
01:58:16uklme too.
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01:58:21scorchedo you want it bad enough to learn C and get working? ;)
01:58:28bird603568i know c!
01:58:33bird603568not very well tho
01:58:52scorchedo you want it bad enough to learn to write C better and get working? ;)
01:59:01linuxstbukl: Did you buy a C240 from bigpockets.co.uk in the end?
01:59:04arnathi know C rather well actually :>
01:59:07bird603568oh it works it just might be ugly as sin
01:59:40arnathhmm, what exactly is involved in porting it? rewriting drivers...?
01:59:42bird603568ive never programmed firmware tho
01:59:54scorchegood time to start..
02:00
02:00:18bird603568i would assume its not that different from other things
02:00:18ukllinuxstb: no, I did not... I wasn't sure if it would be fast enough...
02:00:22scorchearnath: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort
02:00:35uklCan anyone of you confirm if the bigpockets C240 is v1?
02:00:40linuxstbukl: Fast enough for what?
02:00:53linuxstbukl: Mine was, and others have reported the same.
02:00:58uklI'm not in the UK anymore
02:01:21 Quit BitTorment ("Do directly to guantanamo bay. Do not pass go. Do not collect your human rights.")
02:01:22uklhmm too bad should have done it.
02:02:02arnathPorting Rockbox can be everything from hard work to extremely hard and time consuming work. Try to gather as many interested friends and fans as possible so that the whole burden isn't put on one single human.
02:02:07arnathsounds a bit depressive :|
02:02:14arnathespecially since i don't have any friends that can code a damn :(
02:02:46saratogawell the first step (and a good way to get others interested) would be to take a look at the firmware reverse engineering already done in the V2 thread and get Bagder's Sansa V2 patcher code working
02:02:51linuxstbMake some new friends ;) e.g. on forums where owners of the device hang out.
02:03:23scorchethere have been a few ports done by folks by themselves
02:03:24kugellinuxstb: Do you have a build/sim with my customlist patch handy?
02:03:29uklI'd love to meet people in a pub to work on something. Unfortunately I lack projects and people (and knowledge/abilities).
02:03:33saratogai know dan_a was interested, and maybe others would be too if there was some progress
02:04:03linuxstbkugel: Not the latest version, no.
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02:04:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:04:37linuxstbYes, I'm sure others would buy V2s once a port was underway (i.e. code was being run on the device)
02:04:57kugelA user of my build spotted a possible bug (though, my build contains much more patches). Scrolling not working with pointer line selector
02:05:18kugelI'm not booted into linux today, that's why I can't test myself
02:05:22arnathbah, not even sure if i have the time, got a masterproof to finish up, exams coming my way... :(
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02:05:38bird603568saratoga: does he need testers because ill test on mine
02:05:43phinzemarkun: you still around?
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02:09:31kugelI was wondering if anyone is interested in anti-aliased fonts
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02:09:58kugelI have a working patch (I don't take the credit though)
02:10:08kugelwhich runs surprisingly well
02:10:34scorcheis this in the tracker?
02:10:45kugelNo
02:10:49scorche...why not?
02:10:57kugelI was hoping that the creator would upload it
02:11:08kugelBut he doesn't seem to be interested in it anymore
02:11:27saratogabird603568: does who?
02:11:43scorchedid he GPL the code or just write it?
02:13:00kugelhe wrote it for rockbox
02:13:24kugelI'd need to look in the patch again
02:13:35kugelhe doesn't answer me, so I can't ask him directly
02:14:33kugelscorche: But he allowed me to have it in my build
02:14:49kugelscorche: since my build is gpl, doesn't it mean that the patch is gpl too then?
02:15:10scorchedo you have his full name?
02:15:12krazykitno, it means if it's not GPL, you're violating it
02:16:08saratogatechnically you can't add patches from other people unless they license them under the GPL
02:16:48kugelkrazykit: he allowed to have it my build
02:17:00kugelJonas Hurrelmann is his real name
02:17:08scorchepeople write patches "for" projects all the time and dont GPL them...just because he wrote it "for" your build, doesnt mean it is under the GPL
02:17:27kugelah ok
02:17:58kugelhe talked about some devs some while ago about this patch, and I just found the site
02:17:59saratogaassuming he was aware you were using GPL code, and he gave you permission, you're probably ok
02:18:07kugelhttp://sse2.net/rb/
02:18:07saratogabut we certainly can't do that for SVN
02:18:22saratogawe need to be black and white
02:18:57kugelsaratoga: As you can see in the link, the convtff.c (the tool to convert ttf to anti-aliased .fnt) is GPL'd
02:19:42saratogahe just emailed that to you?
02:19:50kugelthe link?
02:20:16kugelHe doesn't answer me at all.
02:20:17saratogathats an email in there right?
02:20:27saratoga"Subject: [PATCH] Framework for anti-aliased font support on lcd-16bit devices."
02:20:38saratogawheres it from?
02:21:01kugelhe used a git repository for his rockbox source afaik
02:21:13scorchewhy did he contact you about this and not even mention it to us?
02:21:16kugelnot sure where that framework comes from
02:21:27kugelhe did
02:21:32saratogaalso odd that he would add the rockbox header but remove the GPL from his makefile
02:21:38kugelI think he talked with amiconn and other devs about this patch
02:21:57kugelhis IRC name is jott and/or j0tt
02:22:24scorchesaratoga: that is odd
02:22:33scorchei seem to remeber the name..
02:22:41kugelbut the convttf.c says that it's GPL'd
02:22:52kugelhe made pictureflow ;)
02:23:32linuxstbI remember him discussing the patch here on IRC
02:23:35kugelhttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8308 he also made that
02:26:47kugelAny idea what to do about this patch? I'd gladly upload it, but if you fear license and copyright issues I understand that
02:27:25kugelI could possibly contact him, I know which university he's on
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02:29:26scorcheah...i remember it now..
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02:32:35Casainhoheelo RB people :-)
02:32:41CasainhoBagder: are yo uthere?
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02:34:25saratogaits the middle of the night in europe right now so hes probably asleep
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02:35:08kugelsaratoga, scorche: What to do about this patch? I used it for a long time and it's nice. Don't want to waste his work
02:35:12Casainhosaratoga: okok :-)
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02:35:44kugelMaybe I'm gonna call the university and try to get him on the phone
02:35:59CasainhoI read now a message on forum, about an good offer: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=6751.msg120826#msg120826
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02:36:20CasainhoI would like to know If thats true... or I am dreaming...
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02:36:44CasainhoI was looknig for an advice, about what to answer
02:37:20krazykitCasainho, you could PM him for more information and then check it out on google...
02:37:57CasainhoI will go answer now, hope not write some "bad" ideas.
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02:39:02kugelOk, I'm gonna off now. Decide what to do with the patch. Just remember the site: http://sse2.net/rb/
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05:46:59blckpythnanyone on right now?
05:47:09blckpythnand not afk
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05:49:13scorcheif you have a question, juts ask it
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05:57:05blckpythnwill there be a version of rockbox for sansa c200 v2 series?
05:58:28scorcheif someone works on it
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06:04:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:10:26TaylorKillianhey, would anybody mind taking a look at my application before i turn it in? http://www.wright.edu/~killian.6/rockbox-application.pdf
06:10:33TaylorKilliananything i should add or fix?
06:11:53JdGordon*wall of text!* :)
06:12:06JdGordongimme 20min and ill read if when i get back if your in no hurry
06:14:47TaylorKillianno hurry, thanks :)
06:22:29scorcheTaylorKillian: *very* nice proposal, but sadly, my biggest concern is with the idea itself
06:22:56TaylorKilliandarn :/
06:23:42scorcheprovided the users use their tags properly, rockbox does just fine with users using iTunes as our Database already scrapes the files
06:24:30TaylorKillianah :/
06:24:44scorchethe main things i think that the users have issues with are iTunes playlists and iTunes's dislike for file-based organizing
06:25:31scorchethe latter we cant fix, and the former is just making Rockbox able to read those playlists
06:25:37TaylorKilliani could include a section about allowing upload of drm'ed songs, however i don't know if people would object to that or not
06:26:00scorcheas in giving Rockbox the ability to play DRMed files?
06:26:07TaylorKillianyeah
06:26:24TaylorKillianthe iPod drm has already been reverse engineered
06:26:35scorcheyeah...that is a no-do
06:26:43TaylorKilliani figured
06:26:58scorcheDRM and open-source doesnt quite mesh together well
06:27:34TaylorKillianheh
06:27:59TaylorKillianah well, maybe my other proposal will have a shot ;)
06:28:48scorchehrm...well, we could always find something else for you to work on, as you seem quite able :)
06:30:20TaylorKillianyeah, i applied to do the arm emulator, however I don't think that i'll get it
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06:40:14*JdGordon ended up being too slow :(
06:40:31scorchethat guy has such potential...he just could have benefitted from coming and talking to us about the idea before writing up the proposal =/
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06:41:29*scorche kicks a can that he finds on the ground
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06:41:40JdGordon:) yeah
06:41:49JdGordonstill.. the arm emulator would be nice anyway
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06:42:28scorcheeh....i dont really see how we can accurately emulate something we dont fully know...then again, there are probably concepts that evade me
06:42:46JdGordonoh lord... I just lost faith in him from the aplication title! :p
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06:43:44saratoga4that ipod proposal was a bit odd
06:44:02saratoga4he proposed all that without looking up the problem and realizing that it was all documented elsewhere
06:44:26saratoga4however, its good to hear he applied for the emulator
06:44:30saratoga4i really want that project
06:44:35saratoga4just not enough to do it myself
06:44:40scorchewhich part was documented?
06:44:50saratoga4the process by which itunes syncs the ipod
06:44:57scorcheah
06:45:08saratoga4no need to use a USB sniffer to figure that out
06:45:08JdGordonisnt just the db documented?
06:45:18scorchei just have issues with the idea itself rather than the process
06:45:32saratoga4itunes actually just copies files, updates teh db, copies album art and thats more or less it
06:45:43saratoga4the only nonstandard part is syncing the clock and updating firmware as I recall
06:46:07scorcheyeah, but do we really want to add all that just for the ipods?
06:46:26saratoga4presumably it could be used for any player though
06:46:38saratoga4or at least those with a software USB stack
06:46:42JdGordonwell... if it worked oyu could trick itunes into thinking any target is an ipod
06:47:13saratoga4thinking about it more, it might be necessary to reverse engineer how itunes identifies an ipod
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06:47:24saratoga4if it does more then just check the USB id string
06:47:28saratoga4so maybe he was onto something
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06:49:05scorchecomment added
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06:49:27saratoga4is there anyway to see the GSOC applications ?
06:49:33saratoga4i want to read the emulator one
06:49:45scorcheonly if you are a mentor
06:49:49saratoga4ah
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06:50:14scorcheeh...you are a dev...let me put it on a private pastebin for you
06:50:22scorcheplease dont share though
06:50:44saratoga4thanks
06:51:34*scorche should get his own pastebin up...maybe a rockbox one...
06:51:43JdGordonwhats the point?
06:51:48JdGordonthere arnt enough already?
06:51:54*scorche shrugs
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06:51:59scorcheparanoia?
06:52:03JdGordonhows the theme site coming along?
06:52:26JdGordonparanoia?? someone might look at our open code and convos!!
06:52:32scorcheoh no!!
06:54:44scorcheJdGordon: well, i have the version i was currently working on up, but linuxstb was nice enough to offer his services and work on a much much better version than what i can produce
06:54:53scorchesaratoga4: Pm sent if you didnt notice
06:57:09saratoga4thanks
06:57:47saratoga4looks good, though be sure you guys ask him abotu his cpu arch and/or assembly experience
06:58:00saratoga4since i don't see anything about that in his application
06:59:35scorchedont want to mentor? :)
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06:59:47saratoga4i'm still thinking about applying for a project
06:59:51scorcheah
07:00
07:00:02saratoga4though if i don't i'll probably pitch ina little with the emulator
07:00:14saratoga4it just sounds like so much fun
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07:01:00scorchecould you explain this to me?...i dont get how we can write an emulator to emulate something that we dont fully know...
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07:02:16scorche(referring to devices like the sansa and ipods rather than the gigabeat which is in the proposal)
07:04:13saratoga4we can emulate the parts supported by rockbox just by doing whatever the drivers in SVN expect
07:04:24saratoga4thats good enough for some basic stuff like optmization
07:04:42saratoga4next we can try and run the OF
07:05:04saratoga4this will probably fail initially, but you can see where it fails by logging all the memory addresses it accesses
07:05:23saratoga4hopefully you could eventually implement everything well enough that it runs
07:05:40saratoga4particularly for targets like the Gigabeat where most or all of the hardware is documented
07:06:42saratoga4furthermore, the things that don't work in the emulator but do work in rockbox are probably things we'd be interested in improving in rockbox, so its still interesting even if it can't run the OF completely
07:06:57 Quit Rob2222 (Connection timed out)
07:08:15saratoga4and for a lot of things, just emulating a bootloader is enough (figuring out checksums, hardware init sequences, etc)
07:08:47saratoga4Toni for instance was able to get some of the addresses for the AS chip before we had the datasheet just by watching what the OF wrote to it in his emulator
07:09:06saratoga4and his emulator didn't even really work
07:09:38scorcheah...so is mainly a way to debug/log the OF since we cant through the device
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07:10:04saratoga4yeah
07:11:13scorcheso what are you thinking about applying for?
07:13:28saratoga4H.264 decoding
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07:30:05washtenawhello... I didn't came here for only thing... to post a link to something relevant.
07:30:06washtenawhttp://www.rockbox.org/irc/rockbox-20080225.txt
07:31:05washtenawI want to leave now, but I don't want to be rude, so I will stay for a minute.
07:31:42JdGordonwhat about that link?
07:31:51bd_...?
07:31:53washtenawI guess you already know about this.
07:32:10JdGordonwhich part?
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07:32:19bd_http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines "The channel is logged."
07:32:27washtenawRight...
07:32:42washtenawWell... I must go... later jo.
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07:38:57*scorche boggles
07:39:43Chrononodd
07:41:08JdGordondoes this sound like a fair assumption....
07:41:53JdGordonarg..
07:41:57*JdGordon not sure how to word this
07:42:21JdGordonat the end of the playlist.. there would rarely be more than 3 or 4 tracks in the buffer?
07:42:51JdGordonat most 8 tracks?
07:43:15JdGordoni.e up to the point where playlist keeps telling playback there is nothing left to buffer
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07:43:56*JdGordon thinks it may still be too early to ask questions :p
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07:56:03cool_walking_I think there needs to be a "Connectivity" section in the manual detailing how people should copy music onto their player, especially the fact that there is no UMS on some targets.
07:58:23cool_walking_Anyone agree?
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08:00:53JdGordonfeel free to write it and stick it on the tracker
08:01:42cool_walking_Alright but it won't be pretty since I've never done LaTeX before, and I'm not very good at writing.
08:03:19cool_walking_and I only have an iPod
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08:29:52amiconnJdGordon: When playback gets near the end of the list, as soon as the whole rest completely fits into RAM, the playlist code will tell playback there's nothing more to buffer. Don't make any assumptions as to how many tracks before the end this happens. Could be as a fraction of a track (e.g. a long FLAC track), as well has hundreds of tracks, even right at the start of a playlist (e.g. a language course with tiny snippets, speex compressed)
08:31:40JdGordonyeah, im trying to remove gaps between playlists by setting it up so a playlist could never actually end (for dirplay anyway)
08:31:49JdGordonthat speex example is a bit worrying thoughg
08:32:33JdGordonif there is only a few tracks still in the playlist then moving buffers around wont be noticably slow... if it needs to move hundreds around that could be bad
08:32:41amiconnThis indefiniteness is one of the main reasons for MoB...
08:33:17amiconnGaps between playlists?
08:34:09JdGordonso playback already starts buffering the next playlist while the current one is finishing
08:34:18JdGordonits very noticable with dirplay
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08:34:38JdGordon.. also the point is moving the dirplay functionality out of playback
08:34:43amiconnAh, that. Another feature I never use
08:34:49*amiconn always forgets about it
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08:36:05*JdGordon curses the speex example!
08:36:39amiconnWell, it's known as the 'norvegian language course problem' in the rockbox world for years
08:37:47JdGordonok, I'm tihnking that if too much of the playlist buffer is being used then just tell playback the playlist isnt finished but its not ready to find the next playlist yet
08:37:59JdGordonwhich ideally wouldnt be a usual case
08:38:34JdGordonotherwise, the new playlist would be created with the old current one being shown as "queued"
08:38:48amiconnVery short snippets can exhaust almost any finite number of slots. When snippets are so short that 16 of them will fit into the buffer on archos, the hwcodec playback engine will fail (about the only problem in that engine)
08:39:18amiconnIt won't crash though, but repeat the 16th track over and over until you manually skip it
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08:44:57JdGordonhmm... is it worth splitting the dirplay filenames up so the directory is stored once instead of each file storing the full path?
08:46:04LinusNJdGordon: how would you do that?
08:46:23JdGordonim not entirely sure just yet
08:46:49JdGordonit probably isnt worth the effort
08:52:02LinusNmy thought too
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08:56:42mrkikoHi all! I will not be able to use rockbox for long I think - my player has been totally disassembled during a car accident :)
08:57:21mrkikoI haven't tried to get it running - I think at least the internal hard disk is damaged...
08:57:44cool_walking_You think this... yet you haven't tried?
08:58:15Galoisdid you get disassembled?
08:58:23jhMikeSmrkiko: as long as you weren't disassembled during the car accident be greatful for that
08:58:30mrkikoehehe... even if I try to be optimistic, it seems hard this has not happened
08:58:53GaloisI had a laptop hard drive that survived a bad car crash
08:59:01mrkikoNo - the only sign of the accident is a big sign on the front
08:59:03mrkikoof my face
08:59:08Galoisthe laptop itself was toast, but repairable
08:59:10mrkiko(I don't know how to say it in english)
08:59:24mrkikoMy laptop was not with me...
08:59:27Galoisscar?
08:59:54mrkikoscar -> scared?
09:00
09:00:02mrkikoYes, I was very very scared up...
09:00:11mrkikoMy brother is at hospital actually...
09:00:17mrkikobut it seems nothing grave happened
09:00:52mrkikoSince the next two hours I'll know if the player actually can run again...
09:01:06ChrononMaybe the accident discussion can happen in #rockbox-community. . .
09:01:16ChrononGood to hear that you're okay, though
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09:02:24mrkikoChronon: thank you
09:02:38Chronon:)
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09:41:56BHSPitMonkeybah
09:42:27BHSPitMonkeyHow much detail can I possibly give, without diving into the research part of the project already :/
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09:55:37pondlifeMorning all - don't suppose any iPod owner could tell me if Buschel's crossfade fix has cured the keyclick screech-from-hell?
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09:59:12pixelmahmm.. could try it on Sansa...
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10:00
10:01:41pondlifepixelma: Was it a problem on Sansa before?
10:01:52pondlifeIf so, then yes please
10:02:06pixelmayes, I could make it "beeep"
10:02:16pondlifeI wonder if pcmbuf_beep needs similar alignment work
10:02:45pondlifeThe noise GodEater described sounded more nasty than "beeep"...
10:03:11pondlifeI think the click is still too long on some targets (so sounds like a beep), but that's a different issue I think.
10:04:19pixelmait doesn't stop until you move to a next line and is very loud (not bearable with earphone in the ear and you could hear it outside)
10:04:30pondlifeAh, maybe that's the one
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10:08:45pixelmapondlife: don't you have a c240 too now?
10:09:05pondlifeI do, but I didn't know that this problem affected it too
10:09:16pondlifeIt's not with me at the moment, either
10:09:50pondlifeI can play tomorrow, but would be interested in the information.
10:09:58pixelmaI think I told you (at least I mentioned it here :P ), currently building
10:10:24*JdGordon will check his e200 which used to very easily show the problem
10:11:58JdGordonpondlife: which revision had the change you want tested?
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10:12:32JdGordonr16891 beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepz
10:12:47pondlifeJdGordon: Thanks, that answers it :)
10:13:15*pondlife tries to get his head around http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/pcmbuf.c?r1=16889;r2=16890;pathrev=16890
10:13:50*JdGordon passes
10:14:12pondlifepcmbuf_beep() mirrors the old version of that somewhat
10:15:41pondlifeJdGordon: Is it only a problem if music is not already playing?
10:15:52pondlifeOr does it do it when playing or stopped?
10:16:02JdGordoni was testing with music stopped
10:16:28pondlifeThere are two different code paths :/
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10:17:26JdGordonwow.. my sansa is fucked up! im getting wierd garbage out of the headphones instead of music (the wps says its stuck at 1:43)...
10:18:06JdGordonyep, cant reproduce while music is playing
10:18:18pondlifeThanks
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10:29:16amiconnpondlife: The hanging beep on pp is definitely not an alignment issue
10:29:22pondlifeOK
10:29:33amiconnIf it were, it would cause a data abort
10:29:52amiconnBtw, imho the current implementation of keyclick is completely useless
10:30:08pondlifeI find it very useful
10:30:16pondlifeIt's far from ideal
10:30:57amiconnIt's not at all related to actually registering the button event
10:30:58pixelmapondlife: I remember that having voice enabled also prevented it from beeeeping
10:31:20pondlifeYes, if pcm_is_playing() it's not an issue, only if it has to kick off pcm playback
10:31:36pondlifeVoice/fades may mask the issue too
10:32:02pondlifeamiconn: No, it's related to the button event being dequeued
10:32:17pondlifeSlower, but in some ways more useful
10:32:33pondlifei.e. you know that the client received the input
10:32:46pondlifeIdeally it should be in firmware
10:33:07pondlifeAnd should use piezo if possible, PCM if not
10:34:22amiconnNo, you know that rockbox processed the event... but that's something I'll notice without any beep
10:34:41pondlifeDepends if you're looking at the display, maybe
10:34:44kugelJdGordon: Have you allready taken a look at FS #8799 ?
10:34:56JdGordon8799?
10:35:01amiconnThe beep would be helpful when queueing button events (especially since the ui gets more and more laggy) :(
10:35:27pondlifeYes, that could improve perceived responsiveness
10:35:50pondlifeFeel free to work out how it could fit into firmware, yet still use pcm
10:36:01kugelJdGordon: Ehm, yes
10:36:15JdGordonwhich is...?
10:36:15pixelmakugel: sorry to say but that comment is worth less than $0,02 - as I said myself I'm not completely happy with it either and it's there for discussion. If you couldn't try on the target yourself I can't take it seriously, at least now I know someone discovered it
10:36:45kugelpixelma: Ok
10:37:40pixelmaI hoped for some ideas of others too
10:37:47kugelJdGordon: Just browse to it, or can't you atm? It's my custom list patch
10:38:04JdGordonkugel: arg.. yes, i looket at v8 yesterday... didnt give it a full look though
10:38:45JdGordonimho it would be a better use of time fixing the rest of the screens to work with viewports than fidling with this atm
10:39:01kugelJdGordon: Not sure, but you might think about the one todo: that it's ineffective the reparse the viewport structure from settings at every redraw
10:39:27amiconnJdGordon: Btw, one lagginess increase seems to be due to viewported lists
10:39:42JdGordonkugel: I know... another reason to leave that aside
10:39:52JdGordonamiconn: in which lists?
10:39:54kugelJdGordon: I wanted that feature more than viewports for other screens, that's why I focussed on that first. I can take a look at viewportifying other screens though
10:39:57*JdGordon hoped he got the worst of it
10:40:20amiconnNow when booting an archos, the screen goes completely blank after the rockbox logo at boot for a fraction of a second
10:40:36JdGordononly at boot?
10:40:42amiconn...before the list is shown (I've set it to boot into file browser)
10:40:48*kugel just wanted to mention it, and goes of now
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10:41:12amiconnI only observed it at boot so far. Can't test atm
10:41:54JdGordonabout HZ/2?
10:42:10JdGordonthere is no drawing in the tree untill after the button press which would explain it
10:42:37JdGordonalthough vp shouldnt have shown it up...
10:42:53pixelmathe statusbar update lag got worse too (noticed last week) - when going from WPS to the browser, the statusbar doesn't update immediately (was there before) but in the statusbar area you can still see that part of the WPS (before you had a blank space for a short while)
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10:48:36amiconnStatusbar also takes ages to update after boot (check with any soft-led target...)
10:48:51pixelmaJdGordon: could be Hz/2. I can't remember the details but this is recent thing because it makes Rockbox feel slower than before
10:48:58Casainhohello
10:49:57CasainhoI am looking for guidance about what to do after an offer from a commercial company that sells, re-brande DAPS, said that would like to produce rockbox player
10:50:18LinusNgood question :-)
10:50:19pondlifeJdGordon: Simulator takes about 2 seconds to display the file browser on boot at the moment too.
10:50:36Casainhocan someone give opinions about: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=6751.msg120826#msg120826
10:50:39JdGordonugg
10:51:08JdGordonpondlife: which sim?
10:51:14pondlifeH300
10:51:30pondlifeSet it to start in the file browser
10:51:50JdGordonsim shouldnt make a diff.. but e200 sim worked fine.. compilng h300 sim now
10:52:09*petur wonders what rockbox has to do with google android
10:52:13pondlifeYou may need to set it to use a slow drive for your root... I use either a network drive, or my real H300
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10:52:41JdGordonthen its more likely jhMikeS's threading changes...
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10:52:50pondlifeMaybe, will binchop
10:52:51JdGordonprioritys and such
10:53:02*JdGordon loves passing the buck :D
10:53:23amiconnI doubt that
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10:53:49pixelmaJdGordon: threading changes - when? And do they affect Archos too?
10:54:06JdGordonin the last few days, dunno
10:54:34JdGordonmaybe they put speed in the water there so everything feels much sloweer for you guys....
10:54:46JdGordonpondlife: dump your config.cfg please
10:54:52JdGordons/dump/;pastebin
10:55:29pixelmaI first noticed this effect with a build that had the .rockboxoldconfig.cfg (or so) in it, hadn't updated for a while before that
10:55:45pondlifeJdGordon: http://www.pastebin.ca/964501
10:56:59JdGordonno problems with that config.cfg here
10:57:45pondlifeYou need to use rockboxui.exe −−root x:
10:57:54pondlifewhere x: is a slow drive with lots on
10:58:18*JdGordon has no such disk and doesnt belive this is a vp issue anymore
10:58:45pondlifeI'll come up with a revision number
10:58:50JdGordonok
11:00
11:00:08*JdGordon loves how this is the first I'm hearing of the issue and it supposedly first showed up a week ago
11:01:37pixelmaI complained about this last week here and got no reaction :\
11:02:28JdGordonon the tracker?
11:02:34JdGordonnot everyone reads the logs...
11:04:31*amiconn actually reads the logs more often than the tracker :\
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11:06:10pixelmaI also hoped for comments by others (seen it too, stuff like that)
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11:20:49mrkikoHi all again!
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11:30:36B4gderwhoa gsoc apps are pouring in now
11:30:58peturdeadline rush :)
11:31:25B4gderindeed
11:31:38B4gder10 hours to go isn't it?
11:32:55GodEaterI'm still not overly struck by the quality mind you
11:33:10peturhmmm three usability studies :/
11:33:11B4gderI agree
11:33:20B4gderand 4 theme editors
11:33:24pondlife:)
11:33:27GodEaterone proposal which includes no project idea at all
11:33:37merbztsame for ffmpeg
11:34:01gevaertsI think it's something like 14:27 to go
11:34:18*linuxstb hopes a rockbox-as-app app appears...
11:34:23B4gderah yes, I can never learn time zones
11:34:35gevaertsAt least we should end up with a theme editor with a really well designed UI :)
11:34:45*gevaerts points to date -u
11:35:00B4gdercheater!
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11:35:30pondlifegevaerts: "a really well designed UI" is not likely to be a statement we can all agree on.
11:35:33pondlife:)
11:35:41 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
11:35:51gevaertsI can even make sense of the PDT times on the GSoC page :) I have both PDT and CET in my clock applet
11:36:52B4gderyeah, I use this fancy firefox clock thing on one of my browsers and it helps a lot
11:37:04linuxstbI've been helping scorche with the PHP for the new themes site - here's what I've come up with so far - linuxstb.cream.org/themes/">http://linuxstb.cream.org/themes/ (it's using the old rockbox-themes.org content for testing - that will need to be cleared)
11:37:32gevaertsEspecially if you're working with people from different timezones it helps to always know what time they have
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11:38:35B4gderlinuxstb: it looks nice and a good start!
11:38:56pondlifelinuxstb: I like the standard-left-menu
11:39:08B4gderit would be cool with some rating and download counters to get to see "most popular" etc
11:39:08linuxstbB4gder: "a good start" ? That's all there will be... ;) (at least for v1)
11:39:14pondlifeAnything in particular that needs testing
11:39:23B4gderlinuxstb: isn't v1 the start? ;-)
11:39:30disorganizerare more than 2 screenshots supported?
11:39:32JdGordonlinuxstb: can you get it to use the full browser width?
11:39:33gevaertsThe front looks familiar :)
11:39:35linuxstbpondlife: The upload facility will need testing, but I'm still working on it.
11:39:39pondlifeOK
11:40:04JdGordonlinuxstb: i.e more than 3 themes per ro
11:40:05JdGordonw
11:40:16pondlifeWe're still going to restart with no content and carefully filter for compatibilty, right?
11:40:30*disorganizer hopes so
11:40:42B4gderI'm sure we'll get content fast enough anyway
11:41:11linuxstbJdGordon: How would you do that/
11:41:29*JdGordon doesnt do web development...
11:41:34linuxstbpondlife: Yes, the intention is for the site to start blank, and for the uploads to stictly validate submissions (including running checkwps)
11:41:39gevaertslinuxstb: you could just put them all in a list and use CSS to make it look like a table
11:42:10linuxstbgevaerts: Patches welcome ;) (I'm intending to put the PHP in SVN)
11:42:30disorganizerand let the user decide how many themes per row ... if possible? and sorting, of course :-)
11:43:12linuxstbThe important thing is to collect the metadata accurately, and to make sure the theme .zip files are correct. We can play with display options and filters/sorting etc later.
11:43:14gevaertslinuxstb: maybe I'll have a look at it some time, if nobody beats me to it. I know a bit about css, but I have to look things up a lot
11:43:48gevaertsHave there been thoughts about automatically generating the screenshots ?
11:44:11disorganizerthen indeed i would prefer one theme per row because imho its easier toscroll through the site with that
11:44:23*gevaerts diverts the discussion from actual UI design to lower-level and more interesting things
11:44:56linuxstbgevaerts: Sounds like a fun feature to add to checkwps...
11:45:31 Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting")
11:45:50linuxstbgevaerts: But don't we have a theme editor on its way that could make screenshorts? ;)
11:45:56disorganizerproblem is: if a theme has 2 timed sets of what its displaying, for example playlist-count for 5 seconds and playlist-name for 10 seconds (just an example), would we allow more than 2 screenshots?
11:46:36gevaertslinuxstb: some of them have a screenshot feature listed. If they can make that functionality available in a headless mode, we're done
11:47:16*gevaerts didn't mean to suggest that linuxstb had to implement it himself :)
11:48:07linuxstbFor the moment, I just want to make sure we're collecting the right data about the theme - here's the current version of the upload form - linuxstb.cream.org/themes/upload.php">http://linuxstb.cream.org/themes/upload.php
11:48:57B4gderlinuxstb: what about a given password or similar in case the user wants to update the theme?
11:50:01B4gderof course nobody will remember theirs anyway
11:50:04disorganizerlinuxstb: as said, what if 2 wps screenshots would make sense?
11:50:06linuxstbB4gder: I was thinking the email address could be used for that - to email the user a password
11:50:13pondlifelinuxstb: If I were to specify "Target Device: FM Recorder" I assume it would be made available to Recorder v1/v2 users too?
11:50:13B4gdergood idea
11:50:29*gevaerts might test-submit a theme tonight (if that's already supposed to work..)
11:50:30LloreanI don't even know if you'd need to do passwords
11:50:32linuxstbpondlife: Yes, that's the intention.
11:50:34disorganizerb4gder: what about using the wiki permissions? they have a password attached to it, the email-address (afaik) and even the realname
11:51:02LloreanB4gder, linuxstb: Why not, when someone tries to upload a theme with the same name and target, it simply uses the email address to mail a confirmation link of some sort for overwriting? No password to remember / deal with.
11:51:03disorganizerlinuxstb: i will also upload a theme later
11:51:11linuxstbgevaerts: No, the upload doesn't work yet - but hopefully I'll get that finished this evening. It's a lot of work as I'm highly paranoid about the contents of the zip, and also want to very strictly validate it.
11:51:13Lloreanlinuxstb, B4gder: Sorry, *original* email address
11:51:18gevaertsdisorganizer: different server, so possible data availability problems ?
11:51:30B4gderLlorean: indeed, since the address isn't shown that's a pretty good idea
11:51:51disorganizerlinuxstb: ok. just mention it in the irc log when the upload should work with a link
11:52:18linuxstbdisorganizer: Don't worry, I will do. The upload is going to need testing...
11:52:23disorganizerany restrictions on zip formatting? (folder structure, naming etc)
11:52:23gevaertslinuxstb: of course. I do expect a reasonable amount of paranoia from this kind of system. Nobody wants viruses and trojans in it...
11:53:01disorganizercould we use the forum useraccount for access validation? (and for nicknames)
11:53:04Lloreandisorganizer: It should be the "proper" theme structure (when extracted to the root of the device, the images, .wps, .cfg, etc all end up in the appropriate subfolders)
11:53:30disorganizerllorean: ok. so that should be linked from the submit page or mentioned there *g*
11:53:37*gevaerts will of course upload a black-on-black theme that turns voice off, sets weird equalizer settings, and sets the brightness to minimum
11:53:47pondlifelinuxstb: Will you be able to validate the zip format?
11:53:57Lloreandisorganizer: I believe *somewhere* we've got a document containing the intended submission guidelines for this new site. Dunno where though.
11:54:06disorganizergevaerts: why not a theme replacing the bin with a empty file?
11:54:14linuxstbpondlife: Yes, that's what I'm working on at the moment.
11:54:18pondlifeGreat
11:54:37disorganizerwill the submitter get a kind of information why his theme was rejected?
11:54:45linuxstbdisorganizer: Of course
11:54:46gevaertsdisorganizer: that's no fun. I will however try to replace cabbiev2 with my theme, to make resetting settings not work :)
11:55:14disorganizergevaerts: you, sir, are definitely evil by heart
11:55:16Lloreangevaerts: And that's *exactly* why we also need a .cfg validator that removes all "non-theme" lines from .cfg files. Thanks for volunteering. :) It should also be easy to update with its own list of which lines are valid, for when settings change without needing to recompile. Thank you very much. :-P
11:55:54disorganizerllorean: in fact we just need to check than NO original files of the svn are overwritten :-)
11:56:20Lloreandisorganizer: Well, the real problem is that a .cfg can change any setting, not just theme settings.
11:56:30LloreanAny theme should have an explicit list of settings (no more, no less).
11:56:32disorganizerwe have a kind of factory reset though
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11:56:48LloreanIf a setting should be "as default", it should still be there, but should set the default value (or no value in the case of backdrops)
11:56:55disorganizerand we would need a "complain" button on the dl-page of course so users can complain to admins if such a theme is upped
11:57:11gevaertsLlorean: I fully agree that this theme must be rejected. I fear that I'm not the right person to decide what settings to allow (I know nearly nothing about that area)
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11:57:42disorganizerimho we could do something else:
11:58:02gevaertslinuxstb: maybe reject a theme if it's filenames clash with any other theme ?
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11:58:11Lloreangevaerts: Well, a .cfg validity check script or app shouldn't be too hard to write anyawy.
11:58:12Lloreananyway.
11:58:13disorganizerwe could allow only color and viewport and wps setting as well as fonts. if a theme needs something else, people need to request it explicitly and the devs can decide
11:58:25JdGordongevaerts: that wont work.. alot of themes are just updates of existing ones
11:58:42linuxstbLlorean: Then I look forward to it from you ;) PHP would be pefect...
11:58:48Lloreandisorganizer: I already said there's an explicit list of "theme" settings which are the only ones it should be allowed to change.
11:59:02JdGordonLlorean: yes... yes it is hard to write
11:59:12LloreanJdGordon: Depends on what you consider "valid"
11:59:18gevaertsJdGordon: if they're updates, IMHO they should be handled as such. What I want to avoid is getting incompatible unrelated themes
11:59:33JdGordonno... depends how up-to-date you want the config to be
11:59:39LloreanJdGordon: I consider "valid" as long as it has one line beginning with each of the settings. I don't care what the values are, because confirming the validity of those is ridiculous.
11:59:54linuxstbgevaerts: Each theme name (the name of the zip/wps/cfg etc) will be checked for uniqueness for that LCD size.
12:00
12:00:07LloreanJdGordon: Basically, it's as simple as counting the lines in a file, then making sure each of a list of substrings begins one, and only one, line. If that's not true, toss it. :-P
12:00:08pondlifeWhere's the definition of which .cfg fields are considered part of a theme?
12:00:11disorganizeri wonder how we handle the situation where "old" themes need an update and someone else (not the original author) wants to do it. will the "old" theme be moved and the update be submitted as new?
12:00:14gevaertsOK. That should do the trick
12:00:48Lloreanlinuxstb: I was thinking of it as an excuse to try to learn something new, but if not, I may go back and try to do it in PHP so it can be injected into the upload process.
12:01:05LloreanJdGordon: So how about "my vision of validation is relatively simple"?
12:01:41pondlifeMaybe, when we add a new theme option(e.g. viewport: ), could the hosted themes be bulk-updated to select the prior default?
12:01:50linuxstbpondlife: That's the idea ;)
12:01:57pondlifeEven betterer
12:01:57amiconnlinuxstb: Don't forget that there sometimes could be 2 theme variants for the same lcd size (rtc vs. non-rtc)
12:02:22Lloreanpondlife: Since .cfg files are just text files, you should be able to just append the "default" line on the end. Especially if the settings use "viewport:" without parameters to reset the default, since then it doesn't even need target-specificity.
12:02:23disorganizeralso, if themes are not valid any more (for whatever reason), will they be completely dropped or "parked" somewhere for a later update?
12:03:10pondlifeLlorean: Yes, absolutely - I was just wondering if the "validity parser" should/could contain functionality to do this appending.
12:03:23Lloreanpondlife: I think it's a job for a separate app.
12:03:37pondlifeSo, if someone uploads an old theme, that is fine but has some recent stuff missing, it would get fixed up.
12:03:53pondlifeYou're probably right though
12:04:03LloreanYour point on "old themes" is possibly true.
12:04:17LloreanBut I *think* people should just be rejected with information like "missing viewportlist line"
12:04:18pondlifeIt could save a bit of time
12:04:21LloreanSo they know it exists.
12:04:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:04:45pondlifeI'd warn them, then ask if they'd like a default line adding.
12:04:50LloreanPossibly
12:05:08pondlifeProblem is, they would probably not test the modified theme...#
12:05:11JdGordonLlorean: well yes, that is pretty simple
12:06:06disorganizeralso if they need to do it manually, they learn to do it every time and how it works *eg*
12:06:11linuxstbamiconn: Yes. And I think there are other hardware-specific things such as the virtual disk LED, hold buttons, tagcache, sw/hwcodec, pitch-screen, .....
12:06:21linuxstb(... charging...)
12:06:55pondlifeSo you need a set of feature bits as well as LCD details..
12:07:03linuxstbpondlife: I would rather not start modifying the uploaded file - at least not initially.
12:07:09pixelmahold state is now shown on software hold targets too
12:07:10pondlifeOK, just a thought
12:07:12Lloreanpondlife: Also, my slight worry, is that if we add default lines they may also go and upload the same theme (without defaults) to another theme site. Then someone complains that a theme is breaking their device usability, and it's one we find on our site, and gets us confused.
12:07:30Lloreanpondlife: So, I'd rather "force" them to take the time to fix their theme, even if it does sound a little contrived and "mean spirited" perhaps
12:07:45pondlifeNo, at least they fix their copy then
12:07:58pondlifeIn other words, I agree
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12:08:32LloreanJdGordon: I think going much beyond that is actually making the system more fragile. If you try to check to make sure the list viewport is big enough to be usable, or that the colors of fg/bg aren't unreadable, you end up with either an overly-restrictive system (erring on the side of caution) or a system that isn't restrictive enough, but people still expect to work.
12:08:58LloreanJdGordon: So I kinda think "just make sure it has all the lines, and trust the user to set appropriate values" is the right kind of check for .cfg. At least, in my mind
12:10:02JdGordonI was thinking more of the problem of going from settings_list.c -> parser, we've agreed before trying to keep 2 files in sync is too much effort
12:10:56pondlifeWe only just got rid of FILES :)
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12:17:32*Nico_P got his sansa in the post
12:17:46JdGordonno barry :(
12:17:58pondlifeNico_P: V1?
12:18:02LloreanJdGordon: Well, the interesting thing is, when a new setting shows up, we're going to have to write some sort of script to update all the existing themes with a default value(s)
12:18:07Nico_Ppondlife: checking
12:18:16LloreanJdGordon: When doing so, the same script can add it to the definition file the checker program uses for all future themes submitted.
12:18:47LloreanSo while it does require keeping two in sync, it could be a lot worse. The update for existing themes is basically going to have to be triggered manually anyway
12:19:14Nico_Pversion 01.01.00F... I guess it's a V1 then?
12:19:18pondlife:)
12:20:06pondlifeNico_P: You must have quite a collection of targets now
12:20:08JdGordondoes anyone mind me fixing this diff from BOOTLOADER to SANSA_E200? http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/target/arm/usb-fw-pp502x.c?r1=16816;r2=16817;pathrev=16817
12:20:35JdGordonand can someone with a c200 check if plugging in usb to reboot into the OF crashes like the e200 does?
12:20:40Nico_Ppondlife: Gigabeat S and F, LinusN's ipod and the sansa.
12:21:43linuxstbJdGordon: A few days ago (last Wednesday I think), I tested an SVN bootloader on the c240, and it failed to detect USB. It didn't crash though.
12:22:23JdGordonbefore or after "revision 16817, Wed Mar 26 10:37:17 2008 UTC" ?
12:22:24linuxstbNico_P: All ARM targets...
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12:23:07Nico_PI have an H320 when I'm in Paris, although it's officially my mothers
12:23:33linuxstbJdGordon: I'm not sure...
12:23:46Nico_Ptime to install rockbox on the little one now :)
12:24:18linuxstbNico_P: Don't forget to put the OF in MSC mode - it's not the default.
12:24:32Nico_Pah, thanks
12:24:40JdGordonlinuxstb: have you got a min to check if r16816 can load the OF? (or try a quick patch)
12:24:54linuxstbJdGordon: You mean risk needing e200tool? ;)
12:25:15JdGordonwell no...
12:25:22JdGordonthe only change is reverting that diff
12:25:40B4gderit seems a lot of other projects share our current gsoc experience
12:25:51B4gderless applications with a so-so quality
12:25:56peturindeed
12:26:09peturthe mentor list is full of them
12:26:15B4gderyeps
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12:27:03*GodEater wonders if the lack of quality is a sign of the dollars weakness
12:27:21B4gderthat's an interesting angle
12:27:34B4gderhow much less is it counted in euros compared to last year?
12:27:40GodEatera lot less
12:28:10*Nico_P got ~3500€ last year
12:28:15GodEaterI could probably dig out the FX rate from this time last year
12:28:57B4gderand its ~2800 euros now
12:29:05B4gder4500 USD I mean
12:29:29Nico_Pwow, not much indeed
12:29:36GodEaterthat's a pretty significant drop
12:30:09Nico_Prbutil tells me "the bootloader is already installed and up to date"...
12:30:23*GodEater used sansapatcher
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12:30:59Nico_PI replaced it all the same
12:31:03pixelmaJdGordon: on a c200 plugging in USB to reboot into the OF *sometimes* crashes, sometimes works. It has always been like that...
12:31:22pixelmafrom a running Rockbox that is of course
12:33:10*gevaerts thinks that 2800 euros before taxes for twelve weeks is not very much
12:33:24*GodEater agrees
12:34:25GodEaterit'd be about 2270 GBP
12:34:32GodEaterwhich is also pretty miserable
12:34:45GodEaterI think I did better than that stacking shelves when I was a student
12:35:04gevaertsProbably, but stacking shelves is less interesting work :)
12:35:23gevaertsOf course, you can get stack overflows in both areas
12:35:46peturrofl
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12:36:28GodEatergevaerts: it also wasn't a 40hour a week job though :)
12:36:40JdGordonlinuxstb: pixelma: anyone with a min and a c200... can you test http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8506?getfile=16326 bootloader and main build please
12:36:49GodEaterand google hadn't even been born back then, much less GSoC
12:37:00GodEaterI don't even think I had a home internet connection back then
12:39:39Nico_PI didn't pay any taxes on google's money...
12:39:44JdGordonhmm... maybe not... killed usb detection in the bl :(
12:41:03*JdGordon wonders if DEV_USB0 really is DEV_USB0...
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12:42:21linuxstbJdGordon: Sorry, I can't do any testing at the moment...
12:43:07JdGordonrighto... dont test that patch anyway... its forced me to use rec mode
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12:47:15BigBambiGodEater: I've just been reading the logs - that £2270 for 12 weeks at 40 hours per week is £4.73 an hour - compare with minimum wage at £5.52 for over 21 and £4.60 for 18-21
12:47:41GodEaterso pretty shocking then ;)
12:47:57BigBambiyup
12:48:05gevaertsOf course, we do it for free :)
12:48:13GodEaterwell there is that yes ;)
12:48:18BigBambiTrue
12:48:56BigBambiBut a full summer job paying less than the minimum wage isn't very enticing from a purely earning money point of view
12:49:27BigBambi(or I guess for most students it is the minimum wage, not less than)
12:51:40*GodEater wonders what minimum wage is in the USA
12:51:52GodEaterassuming there is one :)
12:52:14linuxstbGodEater: http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm
12:52:33*gevaerts wonders if this dollar rate theory has been mentionned on #gsoc
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12:52:55BigBambiGodEater: A lot less than ours
12:53:07BigBambiAdd that to the very weak dollar as you said
12:53:13linuxstbBetween about $5 and $8 depending on state...
12:53:35linuxstbOr $4 in Montana...
12:55:25GodEatergevaerts: I've not mentioned it personally. It seems crass. It's not Google's fault that the USD has tanked.
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12:56:02disorganizerthey should do it like when selling hardware. 3000$ for us residents, 3000e for european residents :-)
12:56:09gevaertsOf course not, but if it is a major reason for fewer applications than last year, an extension won't help
12:58:24pondlifeNico_P: RbUtil did the same for me, FWIW
12:58:51BigBambipondlife, Nico_P: I think there has been a recent fix for that comitted to SVN
12:59:03pondlifeYes, but not released yet.
12:59:21GodEatergevaerts: perhaps you should mention it then ;)
12:59:21*pondlife would love to be able to build RbUtil for Windows
12:59:46*gevaerts heads over to #gsoc
13:00
13:00:02Nico_PI haven't rebuilt rbutil recentky
13:00:15BigBambipondlife: No, not released. I was just pointing out the problem was known and fixed
13:00:19BigBambihttp://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=16851
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13:12:58*BigBambi kicks the forums in the nuts
13:13:13BigBambiAre they buggered for anyone else?
13:13:27pixelmasame here
13:13:38BigBambiOK, cheers
13:13:45*gevaerts joins the club as well
13:14:34gevaertsBigBambi: you shouldn't have kicked so hard
13:15:03BigBambiSorry. I was just frustrated gov
13:15:27*BigBambi tentativly pats the forums
13:16:11BigBambigevaerts: Bloody hell, that worked
13:16:23*gevaerts notes that it's now at least monday everywhere, so the beer offer is over
13:16:34gevaertsBigBambi: see ?
13:16:43*BigBambi remembers in the future that the forums obviously respond better to the carrot than to the stick
13:18:35pondlifeNico_P: In case it's new information... I've just had a "repeated track". It was at the rebuffer point (maybe the last old track + the first new track). Also the next track info displayed the same as the current track before it repeated (so I knew it was about to repeat).
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13:52:58webguest70just dropping in to say I've also had repeated tracks recently, not sure which version I'm running but it's about a week old
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13:55:30webguest70not much time now, but I'll check the logs later and try to add some info that's actually useful if needed :-)
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14:04:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:05:31gevaertsOne application less to consider...
14:10:02peturit was already quite hopeless...
14:10:33gevaertspetur: should I just mark it as ineligible ?
14:11:51peturI was thinking the same, but ineligible is probably to be used for something else. But it would make it easier to get it out of the list
14:13:09gevaertsThe two that are already marked ineligible are for the same reason (not rockbox-related)
14:13:25peturwell in that case....
14:13:45gevaertsdone
14:14:01JdGordonshould the resume one be ineligabelised also?
14:14:13*JdGordon didnt realise we could discard them so early
14:14:39GodEaterI don't see why not - it doesn't include a project idea.
14:14:41peturdone
14:15:01peturit can always be undone...
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14:19:25arnathhmm which would be best: iriver E100 or the sansa E250?
14:19:38pondlifeFor Rockbox, the Sansa
14:19:48pondlifeThe Iriver doesn't run Rockbox
14:19:51arnathpondlife: the sansa is v2 though :s
14:20:00pondlifeAh, neither then :)
14:20:08arnathaw :(
14:20:16pondlifeUnless you want to do the port
14:20:19arnathand quality wise any suggestions? :>
14:20:31*petur would like to see the E100 supported - it has line-in and radio
14:20:42pondlifeNo idea, best ask in a relevant place
14:21:23arnathpondlife: know of any such relevant places on freenode? :>
14:21:33pondlifeSorry, no
14:22:03pondlifeMaybe on #rockbox-community
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15:39:16pixelmalinuxstb: to avoid duplicating efforts... I started converiting iCatcher to using bitmap strips
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15:45:23linuxstbpixelma: OK, thanks
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15:47:35JdGordon... serious quesiton which may provoke some angry repsonses.... what the heck is the point of the queue insert options?
15:48:09JdGordonthe only reason it would be useful is if the playlist is saved to a m3u, in which case the file could be removed easily with a text editor
15:48:11PaulJamto keep the playlist clean?
15:48:18JdGordonhow?
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15:48:40JdGordonand who cares how "unclean" the played part of the playlist is?
15:50:18PaulJamfor example if you use the play next functionalitty for an album then the playing track gets only queued, so the playlist index is the same as the track number for the album.
15:51:22JdGordonso?
15:51:48JdGordonits dawned on me we waste a fair bit doubling up those instert optoin
15:51:51JdGordonoptions
15:53:52PaulJami don't really care myself if the queue options would get removed. i just think in some (rare) occassions they could be useful.
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15:57:56PaulJambut it would propably be good if you bring that topic up the mailinglist for discussion before you remove the options.
16:00
16:00:03*JdGordon never said anything about removing anything
16:00:36amiconnThe queue options make very much sense if you run a playlist in 'repeat all' mode
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16:04:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:10:04JdGordonI disagree... why would you add a track into a possibly long playlist on repeat all, but not want to leave it in for next time?
16:11:16 Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|zzz (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
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16:17:03RincewindJdGordon: if you have all your music in a big playlist on shuffle repeat all and you want to listen one specific track without weighting the shuffle because of duplicate tracks afterwards
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16:28:37MethoS--could somebody please rename the rbutil-9999.ebuild attachment for RockboxUtility to rbutil-9999.ebuild.old . I would like to upload an updated version
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16:36:35MethoS--oh, just realized that different revisions of the same file can be handled...
16:36:47MethoS--no renaming needed anymore :)
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16:57:31*scorche|sh sees he missed some theme site discussion =/
17:00
17:00:24scorche|shLlorean: you can find the guidelines on themes.rockbox.org (that is just my current version which will probably be thrown out when linuxstb gets his done) For anyone else listening, please no linking to this and no uploading, as this is not "live" yet.
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17:02:42mrkiko:D
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17:11:22zlinedis it possible to access daily builds from a couple yrs ago?
17:11:29disorganizerscorche: and how should we test the upload feature if we are not allowed to test-upload anything? or was this just for non-testers?
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17:12:58scorche|shdisorganizer: because this isnt the version that will be up
17:13:25renkhohello all
17:13:36renkhoanyone here with an iriver h3x0?
17:13:38LambdaCalculus37zlined: Why would you want old builds for, especially from a couple of years ago?
17:14:15zlinedi'm finding the current builds are very slow loading the songs
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17:14:24zlinedthis is for the iriver h10
17:14:39LambdaCalculus37zlined: Which H10? 5/6GB or 20GB?
17:14:48zlined5gb
17:14:50mrkikorenkho: I have one
17:15:32LambdaCalculus37zlined: What SVN version do you have? System > Rockbox Info from the main menu; starts with an r.
17:16:27zlinedi've turned the shuffle off as well, using r16899-080331
17:16:58mrkikorenkho: What's the problem?
17:18:08LambdaCalculus37zlined: One of the devs should be able to help you pinpoint it. Can you give us more information about what kinds of files you're trying to load, and if this happens with playlists as well as individual files?
17:18:17disorganizerscorche: so there will be a link to the "official" test-upload later? did someone really use the link in here to upload? (i think linuxstb explicitly told people not to use it)
17:18:55scorche|shdisorganizer: i would imagine i would be able to do all the test uploading myself, but...
17:19:04renkhomrkiko: i just got mine, and a friend toldme about the rockbox firmware
17:19:08renkhohe has an h120
17:19:09scorche|shas for the rest of it, i ahve no idea what you are going on about
17:19:19renkhobut my firmware is actually 1.31K
17:19:24renkhoand after some research
17:19:37renkhoi found that isn't supported for patch the bootloader
17:19:47renkhobut the info that i found was from 2006
17:20:03renkhobut i didn't find anything new
17:20:03mrkikomhm... right
17:20:18scorche|shrenkho:
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17:20:20scorche|shplease
17:20:21scorche|shdo no
17:20:21renkhoshould i downgrade the firmware?
17:20:23scorche|shtype
17:20:25scorche|shlike this
17:20:30scorche|sh;)
17:20:34renkhoscorche|sh: ups sorry
17:20:45*gevaerts points scorche|sh to the topic ;)
17:21:22mrkikorenkho: eh.... probable
17:21:40mrkikoI recommend you aniway
17:21:57mrkikoto get a copy of your actual firmware prior to start doing anything.
17:23:01mrkikoThen: if you want I have an already patched and working h300.bin file, I know it's illegal to pass it to you, but if you dn't have time to do differently, then I 'm available; My h300.hex file
17:23:06mrkikocontains a 1.29EU fw + bootloader
17:23:49renkho1.29 EU :o
17:23:56renkhodoes it plays videos and stuff?
17:24:09zlinedLambdaCalculus37: well the problem comes when i'm skipping through songs in a playlist and loading songs individually. once the song loads (takes >15s) then skipping 3-4 songs back and forth is fine
17:24:23renkho'cause i used the 1.31K 'cause i found a lot of people who recommend that one
17:25:10zlinedbut skipping more than that takes longer. i'm guessing this is a harware limitation/implementation problem
17:26:02PaulJamthe only difference between 1.31k and 1.29k is the minesweeper game afaik. so you won't loose anything important (you propably won't use the OF anymore)
17:26:24Nico_Pzlined: that's with the current SVN?
17:26:54Nico_Poh yes r16899, didn't see tha
17:26:55zlinedif i remember right i don't think it took as long to load a song in the r16xx? version...i think...hence why i was after old svns to check against
17:27:18zlinedyeah that's right
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17:27:27pixelmalinuxstb: just saw a weird effect when loading my edited Nano iCatcher - I had a typo in "codec.bmp" (was only "codec" without the".bmp" but loading this .wps did not fail completely (just this bitmap and the background was missing). Thought the WPS parser should have rejected it?
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17:27:48renkhoOF?
17:27:50Nico_Pzlined: in my tests it's only sometimes that an unbuffered song takes a long time to load... is it all the time for you?
17:27:50zlinedand before i meant r10xx or something i think, it was a yr or two old the last version i remember
17:28:13zlinedfor me it's 90% of the time
17:28:28Nico_Pouch
17:28:59Nico_Pdo you skip around a lot? and fast?
17:29:35zlineddepends what mood i'm in:P
17:29:41zlinedbut yeah i do sometimes
17:30:13zlinedi just tested now and loading an unbuffered song takes 30s
17:30:29Nico_Pis there a kind of skipping pattern that you find leads to the most waiting?
17:31:10Nico_Pnormally skipping to an unbuffered song should be quite OK if you take the disk startup into account
17:32:35zlinedhmm not sure if it's the other random files stored on the drive that's causing a problem
17:32:50zlinedor disk fragmentation
17:33:36zlinedthere's no pattern to it, it'll just take a long time to load so long as you're going to an unbuffered song
17:34:11Nico_PI'm sure you realize it's expected for unbuffered songs to take longer than buffered ones?
17:34:49Nico_P30 secs is too much though, I have to agree
17:35:07renkhomrkiko: is there any risk in downgrade the firmware from 1.31K to 1.29K?
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17:35:44zlinedyeah i know, but it is a bit long as it is at the moment. i'm not sure if the code is writtem such that you buffer 5songs then play the first song
17:35:47mrkikorenkho: no risks I know.
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17:36:22zlinedand the old code maybe buffer the first then play it. then buffer the rest of the songs in time
17:36:36Nico_Pzlined: it plays the first song as soon as it has enough data
17:36:52Nico_Pbut I've seen some cases where for some reason it waits for all the data of the song
17:36:55mrkikorenkho: aniway - if you need the .bin file please tell me. I'm using actually a boot loader wich is not affected by the problems I encountered with non-lcd remote controllers.
17:37:01Nico_Pso that's probably what's happening to you
17:37:11mrkikoI risk'ed with my iRiver applying a svn boot-loader and it worked
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17:37:39mrkikorenkho: but I recommend you strongly to get a copy of your firmware prior to start
17:37:46mrkikoJust to be sure you can go back
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17:38:21mrkikorenkho: aniway be advised - if something goes wrong during the flash process, no one except someone with a BDM hardware can help you.
17:38:44mrkikoAniway - if I've done it successfully, probably anyone can do it :)
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17:38:49zlinedNico_P: yeah i'll do a clean wipe and install tomorrow morning to rule out any weird stuff
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17:38:57Nico_Pzlined: thanks
17:39:08mrkikoI've done it during a school lesson hiding myself from the prof :)
17:39:16Nico_PI'll still try to hunt down the case Iw as mentioning
17:39:32zlinedIw?
17:39:42Nico_P"I was"
17:39:54zlinedah lol
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17:40:48zlinedthanks for the help, you're a dev i'm guessing?
17:41:26Nico_Pzlined: yes, I worked on the playback engine so this sort of bug is kinda my responsibility ;)
17:42:04mrkikoNico_P: regarding playback...
17:42:27mrkikoNico_P: as I said some days ago I noticed that on my plater at least, sometimes when the disk has to spin up
17:43:11mrkikothe playback instead of going to the next song as it should, re-starts the actual song. I can reproduce it very reliably when auto-change dir is enabled and I'm asking the player to switch from the last song on a dir and start on the next of the other.
17:43:33mrkikoNico_P: Then, interestingly, it skips the first song of the destination dir, and passes to the second one.
17:43:38 Quit midgey ()
17:44:02Nico_Pmrkiko: you mean like in FS #8513 ??
17:44:28*mrkiko searches for FS #8513
17:44:30zlinedNico_P: haha i'm just glad there's an alternative firmware. you guys have done an awesome job so far...so props and keep up the good work. i'm off to bed and i'll get back to you tomorrow with any updates
17:44:50zlinednight guys
17:44:57Nico_Pzlined: thanks, and good night
17:45:18 Quit zlined ()
17:45:54mrkikoFS #8513, the right one, yes...
17:46:13mrkikoNico_P: but I dislike websites so much
17:46:19ceclinyay gsoc application extension
17:46:21ceclin*phew*
17:46:26ceclinwake up to good news :D
17:46:28mrkikomay be because actually I don't have a vocal synthetizer
17:46:41Nico_Pmrkiko: oh sorry I should have given you the link
17:47:10mrkikoNico_P: oh no problem! It's not a duty ! :)
17:47:24Nico_Pmrkiko: I'll try it... reproducing is the first step towards fixing :)
17:48:04mrkikoNico_P: I don't have a flash-based player that can run rockbox for now, so I can't help you.
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17:48:19mrkikoNico_P: aniway I suspect it appears only on disk-based ones
17:48:41Nico_Pmrkiko: you've already helped me
17:49:12mrkikorhenko: another difference between 1.29 and 1.31 is that 1.31 doesn't have the photo mode, present in 1.29 and removed for license issues.
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17:49:57mrkikoNico_P: since the bug is here since a lot of time I was thinking that not many people is having it ...
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17:50:50Nico_Pmrkiko: it's been annoying quite a few people but it's been very hard to track down
17:51:02pixelmaI can reproduce the autoskip directory part (maybe it's a different issue) very reliably on my c250 (flash-based) when I actually skip "across the directory border" from the end of one playlist
17:51:24pixelmaif I don't let it just play
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17:52:01mrkikoNico_P: the problem is that I can reproduce it even when repeat is enabled, but with much less frequency
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17:59:07XavierGrah GSoC applications were extended by one week, I guess I will wait a little bit for my sansa v(unkown) to arrive, in order to not submit 2 applications
17:59:37*domonoky now sees 12 open applications and 5 ineglible ones for rockbox gsoc... and deadline was extended so hurray :-)
18:00
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18:01:04dionoea5 ineligible out of 17 ?!?
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18:01:17peturyes, crap applications
18:01:38domonokyyes, 5 completly irrelevant applicatons, those students must be mad.. :-)
18:01:38dionoeaLike "omg i love rockbox and want to contribute" ?
18:01:43dionoeaok :)
18:02:08peturno, like "I want to write a video streaming application on PC and call it rockbox"
18:02:21peturprobably in java
18:02:33LambdaCalculus37petur: Madness!
18:02:49domonokydionoea: or a rfid fright tracking with mobile phones.. *what rockbox?* :-)
18:03:17domonokythere is even a application, without mention of any project.. :-)
18:03:38dionoeahehe, those sound like fun projects :D
18:04:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:04:59mrkikoNico_P: as you probably know then, someone seems to have understood why the bug occurs;
18:05:02mrkikosee comments
18:05:23mrkikoNico_P: you probably can understand then more than me...
18:06:12*domonoky sees 4 Theme editor applications, (2 Qt, 1 Wx, 1 java) :-)
18:07:00LambdaCalculus37domonoky: A WPS editor app makes a little more sense.
18:07:03Nico_Pmrkiko: which comments are you reffering to? those from Tony DeFusco ?
18:07:26domonokyLambdaCalculus37: they are all WPS and Theme editor proposals..
18:07:47mrkikoThose from Nick Alcock
18:08:58petura theme edit plugin would be nice for those who want to tweak certain things while away from pc (colors, ...) which would allow us to remove all theme stuff from the settings menu and replace it with an 'edit theme' entry
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18:10:19domonokya few of those also speak of a doing both: theme editor plugin, and full WPS/Theme editor on PC... so its going this way ..:-)
18:10:22mrkikoIt would be very nice to add the runtime tts functions, but I know it's a very very hard job;
18:10:26*mrkiko thinks he is a little OT
18:10:51domonokymrkiko: you mean a TTS plugin for rockbox ?
18:11:00mrkikoyes
18:11:06domonoky(this was a failed project last year) .. :-)
18:11:15peturdomonoky: both in one summer, that will not be ready in time....
18:11:25mrkikoIt would be nice if rockbox could be read entirely with a true screen-reading system.
18:12:01 Quit piga (Remote closed the connection)
18:12:06domonokypetur: depends on how you do it.. if you extract the WPS / Theme core out of rockbox as a lib, you could use it in a plugin and on PC...
18:12:14Nico_Pmrkiko: do you use fade on stop/pause?
18:12:21Nico_Ppixelma: do you?
18:12:35pixelmano, I don't
18:12:47renkhois this possible: resize the partition of my iriver h320, and leave 7 GB free space, and then use that space for a linux "live" install , for after that that will be abble to boot? i mean if i install a linux bootloader on that partition and mark it as a booteable..?
18:12:48domonokymrkiko: sure it would be good, go forward and port a TTS :-)
18:13:03Nico_Phmm I guess he meant crossfade and not fadeout...
18:13:04pixelmaNico_P: nor any other fading
18:13:15Nico_Ppixelma: I guessed so :)
18:13:19Nico_Psame here
18:13:32mrkikoNico_P: No
18:13:38mrkikoNico_P: I disabled it
18:13:59domonokyrenkho: should be possible, at least rockbox just mounts the first Fat32 partition, so will ignore the linux one..
18:14:30mrkikorenkho: why should you want to do this?
18:14:44mrkikorenkho: to use the iRiver as an external boot disk for your pc?
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18:16:17renkhomrkiko: not for my pc
18:16:23mrkikodomonoky: I would do this; I will if I will have some day an idea on how to do it well?
18:16:47mrkikorenkho: and not for the internal player CPU i hope...
18:16:48renkhoi usually have a little pendrive usb of 2 GB
18:17:01renkhoand i have there a linux live dristro
18:17:23renkhoi use that thing for work, i mean go to anywhere and boot the distro with all my tools and stuff
18:17:31renkhobut 2 GB are kinda small
18:18:08renkhoso i was thinking if i can "migrate" from that old usb of 2GB to my iriver with a partition of at least 7GB =D
18:18:19 Quit thegeek (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:18:48renkho*i could
18:18:53mrkikorenkho: I can't find any motivation you won't be able to do this.
18:19:33renkhoi was thinking about the mbr thing
18:19:47domonokyrenkho: just try it, and stay on topic here :-)
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18:20:02omnisilver_hi
18:20:18mrkikorenkho: the on-disk mbr is completely ignored by the iRiver
18:20:38mrkikoand by the OF (original firmware)
18:20:55mrkikoAs I know, what is important is what you have on the flash
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18:22:41renkhoi see
18:24:02omnisilver_i have a question : a got a mp3 player who didn't run because the firewire suxx, and i don't succeed to upgrade it. I would install rockobx on it, but it is'nt supported. If i give this unusefull player to the rockbox project, would they adapt rockbox to this one ? It's the Samsung YP-MT6.
18:24:07renkhoif i make it work this iriver will convert into my new personal swiss army knife :D
18:24:33domonokyomnisilver_: very unlikly
18:25:23mrkikorenkho: probably it will work. Probably aniway the hard drive will not be happy.
18:25:36LambdaCalculus37omnisilver_: Ports are started by people who own a particular player, and are itching to get the work started themselves on making a port happen.
18:25:38omnisilver_domonoky: because the samsung are not supported ?
18:25:39markunomnisilver_: what you could do is find out as much info about the player you can find and hope that someone joins in to start a port
18:25:50omnisilver_ok
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18:26:10markunomnisilver_: do you know which CPU it uses?
18:26:15LambdaCalculus37omnisilver_: Start by reading this: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort
18:26:44domonokyomnisilver_: if you player was supported, there would be no need to port.. but porting is a heavy job, so not much people do it.. (and only for players they own)
18:26:46 Quit petur ("work->home")
18:27:03omnisilver_markun: nop, i don't know (i presume i should open it to know)
18:27:20markunomnisilver_: yes, you could start a page like this one: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SamsungYPT7
18:27:51mrkikoehehe... How much high is the knowledge level needed to make a new port?
18:27:52mrkiko:)
18:28:12omnisilver_i think this knowledge is too high for me ;-)
18:28:34mrkikoomnisilver: ... don't put you down...
18:28:38Nico_Pomnisilver_: hi, are you the person who commented on the DLFP news item?
18:28:40LambdaCalculus37omnisilver_: Here's something else you should do; get a firmware update for your player here: http://erms.samsungusa.com/customer/sea/jsp/faqs/faqs_view.jsp?PG_ID=3&AT_ID=30746&PROD_SUB_ID=46&PROD_ID=46
18:28:45domonokymrkiko: level 42 is needed :-)
18:28:49omnisilver_Nico_P: yes :-)
18:28:56LambdaCalculus37And see how the update process works.
18:29:00markunomnisilver_: well, a start is to find or take pictures of the insides
18:29:14Nico_Pomnisilver_: I wanted to answer your question but couldn't because I'm not registred and didn't have time register
18:29:26Nico_Pcoming here was the best thing to do ;)
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18:38:11omnisilver_re (tel) ^^
18:38:55omnisilver_Nico_P: yes, i see it !
18:40:33Nico_Pomnisilver_: if you don't feel up to the task of starting a port, your best option is to find a rockboxable player... some are quite cheap
18:40:46omnisilver_Mmm so i can : 1/ Try to upgrade again the firmware 2/ If it failed again, open my player and take pictures of it, and create a wiki page with them, to help somebody who wants to port rockbox ont this model (i have a few time, i think it would be too long for me)
18:42:15omnisilver_Nico_P: yes, i think i will should do it, but as i get this unusefull player and i'm maybe not the only one, i would help other people to make it usefull :-)
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18:43:27mrkikoIs it foul to do
18:43:34mrkikodd if=/dev/sdb of=/dev/null
18:44:16dionoeaIt's not very usefull (except maybe to test reading errors)
18:44:23domonokymrkiko: that wont do anything really.. :-)
18:44:40LambdaCalculus37mrkiko: No, it's more foul to do dd if=/dev/null of=/dev/sdb.
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18:45:14mrkikodomonoky: how can test the physical integrity of a drive
18:45:29domonokyfsck.vfat ?
18:45:45mrkikoThat test only the fs structure integrity.
18:46:33*domonoky doesnt know if there is some check util for bad blocks on linux.. ask google ?
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18:47:04mrkikobadblocks for example :)
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19:27:39mrkikoI can't find voice files
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19:31:43pixelmawhat's a common file extension for speex files - spx? Trying to find something for the iCatcher's codec icons
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19:35:13PaulJampixelma: i think /apps/filetypes.c lists all the fileextensions that rockbox recognizes.
19:36:45pixelmaI see an "spx" there and assume that it's the right one, thanks
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19:39:41LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Yes, spx is right extension.
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19:43:31DerPapstgood afternoon
19:43:34DerPapst:-)
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19:46:56*DerPapst is still catching up onthe logs...
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19:48:27mrkikoCan someone explain a little better to me what means "empty skip buffer" setting?
19:48:32DerPapstsagrota (for the logs): the firmware update is easy. twice dd and a fast format of the fat partition. and identifying the ipod is documented here: http://ipodlinux.org/Device_Information
19:48:44DerPapst:-)
19:50:11PaulJammrkiko: did you mean "anti skip buffer"?
19:51:48PaulJammrkiko: i think this setting determines how early rockbox begins to rebuffer when the buffer becomes empty
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19:53:03mrkikomhm...
19:53:09mrkikothank you for your reply
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19:58:50Buschelhi folks
19:59:22LambdaCalculus37Hi Buschel!
19:59:34mrkikoHi Buschel!
19:59:53Buschelquestion: do we know where the CPU load goes while playback (except decoding of course)?
20:00
20:00:37mrkikoprobably this is a target specific question, right?
20:00:42Buschelit seems like ~4MHz are used in addition to the codec itself, ~1MHz of it is the dsp-stuff (withput any EQ-stuff)
20:00:53Buschelah yes, talking about PP502x
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20:01:56Buscheli did the following: test_codec with mpc -> needs about 24MHz from the calculations
20:02:21Buschelthen playing back the same file and wait until all is buffered.
20:02:49Buschelgo into the debug menu and check the boost ratio, calculate the average needed clock from it
20:02:51mrkikoBuschel: with ape? How is the situation?
20:03:08Buscheli did only test for mpc and mp3
20:03:24Buschelsame situation (but mp3 needs more cpu for the codec)
20:04:25Buschele.g. pure decoding mpc (~24MHz), mp3 (~37MHz), playback mpc (~28MHz), mp3 (~41MHz)
20:04:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:05:09Buschelthis is when letting the debug menu update each 10s to avoid CPIU load through LCD updates
20:05:17Buschel*CPU
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20:05:54Buschelso: where do the residual ~3Mhz go? I2S/DMA?
20:06:37mrkikoAnother "interesting" question: how much speech require the cpu to work?
20:06:51Buschel?
20:07:01domonokymaybe general os jobs.. but it seems a bit strange to measure this in mhz.. :-)
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20:07:51mrkikospeech -> roockbox voice subsystem
20:07:51Buscheldomonoky: os jobs are also done when performing test_codec
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20:08:28domonokyah, so you are comparing decoding vs playback ?
20:08:34Buschelyep
20:08:44mrkikoIs here accounted even device drivers work and interrupts?
20:09:22Buschelit should be taken into account as the overall clock is estimated
20:09:42domonokythe the 3Mhz are surely used by the "playing" of the sound, so playback managment and transport of audio data (i2s etc)
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20:10:11Buscheldomonoky: that's my understanding.
20:10:38mrkikoBuschel: aniway some time ago here was a discussion regarding the complexity of playback.c
20:10:59domonokymaybe also WPS ? does running the testcodec show a WPS ?
20:11:44Buscheldomonoky: no, only the debug menu for the audio thread (update each 10s)
20:12:20BuschelWPS is another 4-5MHz on 5G iPod
20:12:37domonokydoes the testcodec use the normal buffering ?
20:13:28Buscheli hoped to reduce the "residual" playback-load via the dsp-optimization, but when I began to work on it I saw that dsp only needs ~1Mhz of the 4MHz
20:14:28Buscheldomonoky: no. but in my measurements on playback the buffering was finished
20:15:32Buschelso, in fact: nobody did any profilings yet :(
20:15:42domonokyso it would be interesting to know how much the audio transport costs, ie a measurement without i2s
20:15:52 Quit PaulJam (".")
20:16:46domonokya long time ago, someone made some attempts to profile rockbox, there is even code for this in svn, but i dont know if this still works
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20:17:58jasonisbackRockbox on the iPod Touch would be cool
20:18:02 Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
20:18:18scorche|shjasonisback: feel free...
20:18:28mrkiko:)
20:18:49jasonisbacki would if i knew how to programme......
20:19:10scorche|shthen learn!
20:19:41*Buschel away to watch the last episode of supernatural. will be back
20:19:44jasonisbacklol if i had the time i would!
20:20:01*bluebrother wonders what happened to gevaerts' beer offer
20:20:03jasonisbacki can program how to draw a circle (though this was back on an old Amstrad back in 1985)
20:20:16Chaoticwhen I skip songs (or pause) on my ipod photo, it takes up to 5 seconds to respond. Is there something I need to do differently to make it respond as fast as the Apple firmware?
20:20:40bluebrotherChaotic: what file types? Also, is it buffering the same time?
20:20:44scorche|shbluebrother: well, no date yet so....
20:21:12bluebrotherscorche|sh: I thought so. But I too would like to have a date ...
20:21:16scorche|shjasonisback: oh...well, you are in luck!...rockbox is just a series of tiny circles!
20:21:21jasonisbackheehee
20:21:23jasonisbackyea right
20:21:31Chaoticbluebrother: MP3 files, usually 3-5 minute songs, playing on random or sequential from the database (not filesystem)
20:21:50scorche|shbluebrother: location would be nice too
20:21:58jasonisbackI may start by writing a WPS first
20:21:59bluebrotherscorche|sh: indeed.
20:22:14pixelmabluebrother: I believe that the best way to achieve this would be if someone plays dictatot
20:22:18pixelma*dictator
20:22:18scorche|shperhaps i can apply a cattle prod to the situation when i get home
20:22:24scorche|shpixelma: yeah...
20:22:39scorche|shthings just wont happen if left out in the open
20:22:57jasonisbackthough I wonder why the iPod Rockbox has 'recording' when it does nothing of the sort
20:23:17scorche|shjasonisback: some ipods can...including yours
20:23:31bluebrotherwell, what's still open for locations for DevConEuro? Stockholm and Berlin?
20:23:35jasonisbackhow do you know which iPod i have?
20:23:44jasonisbackand i do not have a Touch
20:23:48scorche|shbluebrother: seems like it
20:23:50jasonisbacki have a 60GB Video
20:24:04scorche|shjasonisback: i dont, but if you have that option, then your ipod can record
20:24:10jasonisbackok
20:24:19bluebrothermaybe our possible hosts should propose a date. And fight for the location ;)
20:24:24Chaoticanyone else get the slowness when skipping tracks?
20:24:25jasonisbackI wonder if mikeholden and midknight2k3 still work on here
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20:24:48bluebrotherChaotic: skipping can be slow if the player is buffering / needs to rebuffer at the same time.
20:24:53mrkikoTomorrow I will bring rockbox with me in spain :)
20:25:09bluebrotherbut this is nothing that usually will happen upon every song
20:25:16*domonoky votes for Berlin :-)
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20:25:29Chaotichow can I tell if it needs to buffer? Why does it not buffer the next song as it's playing? It tells me the name of the next track
20:25:31*bluebrother would prefer Berlin too due to distance :D
20:25:41jasonisbackid love to have the wheel clicker in rockbox
20:25:54bluebrotherbut going to Stockholm would be nice too. Otoh we could do that next year ;)
20:26:06bluebrotherjasonisback: there is a keyclick option
20:26:12jasonisbackok where is it?
20:26:16bluebrotherbut iirc that was buggy on Ipods.
20:26:20HorschtChaotic, it buffers a certain amount of tracks
20:26:24bluebrothersomewhere in the settings menu :D
20:26:30mrkikoImplementing things as ciclers is very hard
20:26:35scorche|shi think it should be more a matter of who cant make it if it is at x location than what people prefer
20:26:39Horschtwhen that buffer runs out, it has to rebuffer.
20:26:45Chaoticthis happens on the very first track
20:26:50Chaoticand all tracks
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20:26:57Chaoticit's like it doesn't buffer at all
20:27:19scorche|shi would much rather have more people unhappy with the location than less people attending
20:27:23bluebrotherscorche|sh: I agree. We should figure who can make it
20:27:25Chaoticwhen it goes by itself to the next track (i.e. playing a song through to the end), it has no delay
20:27:37domonokyChaotic: is your rockbox build uptodate ? if not update first :-)
20:27:48mrkikoChaotic: I spoke with Nico_p about this problem first
20:27:56scorche|shbluebrother: i will send a mail off to the dev list when i get home if no one gets to it first
20:28:02Chaoticbut when I choose to skip the track, the display shows the new track, but it keeps playing the old track for up to 5 seconds
20:28:06HorschtChaotic, what target are you using?
20:28:15ChaoticMy build is less than 2 weeks old
20:28:26Horschtah
20:28:30bluebrotherChaotic: that's outdated in our terms
20:28:33jasonisbackoh yea the click is there but it playes the sound through the headphones, not through the iPod
20:28:34domonokyChaotic: thats old in rockbox time, please update
20:28:49mrkikoChaotic: try to see if the problem is this, http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8513
20:29:01Chaotichow often do I have to update it? I thought it said "no major problems" on the build
20:29:31 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
20:29:37bluebrotheryou don't need to update regularly. But if you experience problems please update.
20:29:42domonokyChaotic: you dont have to update often, but if you find a bug or something strange, first check the newest build
20:30:00Chaoticno, that's not the same issue, though it does that on rare occasions
20:30:05 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host140-214-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
20:30:06Horschtto check wether or not it has been fixed already
20:30:06bluebrotherand "no major problems" means mostly that it's working, not that it's optimal working
20:30:19Chaoticbut this was happening the day I downloaded it.
20:30:37Horschtit could be fixed by now
20:30:46Chaotic:(
20:30:53 Quit jasonisback ("CGI:IRC")
20:31:16Chaoticok. I'll redo everything. If it's still having the same problem, what would be the best course of action?
20:31:43Horschti'd say report it on the flyspray tracker
20:31:59Horschtbut better wait what a dev has to say :)
20:32:04markunChaotic: trying older builds so we can find out which commit introduced the problem
20:32:33Chaoticoh, one more thing that I did - I told it to load the database into RAM. It seemed like the appropriate thing to do for battery use, but was that a possible cause?
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20:34:31ChaoticI have approximately 2800 songs on an iPod Color (photo)
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20:36:42Horschtiiuc, "load to ram" is only usefull if you browse the library often, i.e. often go to the library view
20:38:16*bluebrother notices that flights from berlin seem to be more expensive than from frankfurt
20:38:41 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
20:38:41Horschtsounds weird, Frankfurt is a bigger airport
20:38:51Horschtis it realy Frankfurt am Main?
20:38:53mrkikobluebrother: I wouldn't say it, but for things not regarding rockbox you should use rockbox-community.
20:39:04bluebrotherI was looking for LH flights to Stockholm :)
20:39:17bluebrothermrkiko: this is Rockbox related. Devcon related to be exact
20:39:43Horschtdevcon is in stockholm?
20:40:00domonokylocation is still not fixed,
20:40:02bluebrotherno ... stockholm is a possible location
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20:40:20bluebrotherbut it seems that only berlin and stockholm are left.
20:40:24mrkikoSorry for my ignorance - what is exactly devcon?
20:40:30mrkikoa player maker?
20:40:37bluebrotherDeveloper Conference. See DevCon2008 in the wiki
20:41:05Chaoticthanks all, I'll load the newest build, turn off RAM flashing, and will file a bug if needed.
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20:42:39fmlbluebrother: ping
20:42:59bluebrotherfml: pong
20:43:30fmlbluebrother: could you please try to build the manual chapter from http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8829 ?
20:43:45bluebrothersure ... give me some minutes
20:45:54Horschtok, does rockbox support dynamic/inteligent playlists?
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20:46:10bluebrothergigabeat also uses OF usb mode, right?
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20:47:04linuxstbbluebrother: Which gigabeat?
20:47:38linuxstbThe F/X has a hardware USB bridge, which is supported in Rockbox.
20:47:49bluebrotherF60 −− see FS #8831
20:47:58bluebrotherok, in that case this definitely isn't a bug
20:48:07linuxstbRockbox can't even dual-boot on the F/X
20:48:09 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
20:48:11bluebrotherfml: shortcuts plugin is a viewer, right?
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20:49:10bluebrotherdang, he left.
20:49:24Horschthe'll be back
20:50:56scorche|shthey always come back!
20:51:01Horschtanyways, I can't seem to find info on the wiki on dynamic playlist
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20:51:46bluebrotherRockbox always uses a dynamic playlist. Not sure if you're referring to something different with that term ...
20:52:16fmlbluebrother: shortcuts has two parts: appender and the "viewer". "Viewer" is what is executed when a link file is played.
20:52:22Horschtplaylists, that for example define "play all songs from 1969"
20:52:50Horschtbased on the tagcache, of course
20:52:52bluebrotheryou forgot to add it to the plugins chapter. I was wondering where I should put it. Added it to the viewers section for now.
20:53:08bluebrotherHorscht: you can't do that with playlists but with a custom search in tagcache
20:53:40fmlbluebrother: have you seen the second patch?
20:53:42Horschtok, so the answer is no :), thanks
20:53:53bluebrotherfml: btw, you didn't use typographic quotes. I simply added them
20:54:06bluebrotherfml: no :(
20:54:30fmlbluebrother: then you should look at it :-)
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21:00
21:00:05bluebrotherfml: looks fine. Will check if it builds fine for all manuals now and commit if it does.
21:00:15pondlifeHi all, anyone know which key is meant to stop playback on a Sansa C200?
21:00:27pondlifeThe keymap seems rather wacky
21:00:36 Join argumentD [0] (n=argument@ip8061f45f.host.ucla.edu)
21:00:39pixelmalong play
21:00:52pixelmapondlife: maybe it's in the manual ;)
21:00:52pondlifeAha
21:01:03pondlifeTrue, but I wanted to bitch a little too :)
21:01:25pixelmaand there's also FS #8824 for discussion ;)
21:01:55pondlifeDoes that make long select access the context menu, perhaps?
21:02:04pixelmano
21:02:07*pondlife goes to look
21:02:12pondlifePity
21:02:58pondlifeHaving used the H300 and Gigabeat (and not the Sansa OF), the mapping seems very odd
21:03:03pixelmathe WPS was the one thing that did not annoy me too much yet though, so I didn't change anything there. I believe Llorean has some plans
21:03:38 Quit tvelocity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:03:40pondlifeI'd hope we can have standard keys for PLAY, SELECT, MENU and STOP
21:04:09pondlifeI did expect the power button to be STOP
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21:04:33pondlifeIt seems to be SELECT
21:04:45pondlifeAh, no.. MENU
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21:05:51fmlbluebrother: ok
21:06:02 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
21:06:39bluebrotherXavierGr: seen Daniel's mail? SoC applicaton period has been extended
21:06:42 Join xander1 [0] (n=nomen@cc245288-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl)
21:06:49 Join kakazza [0] (n=kakazza@unaffiliated/kakazza)
21:07:36pixelmapondlife: unfortunately it seems quite hard to find a proper keymap for a target that has 9 buttons while I find the keymap on the Ondio which has much less possibilities feels intuituve to me...
21:08:20kakazzaHi, I got a problem with rockbox. I am using a 2nd gen iPod Mini with Cabbie 2.0 unifont skin. Now japanese filenames work like a charm with the scrobbler.log, but umlauts like äöü don't work at all.
21:08:28bluebrotherfml: ... and committed.
21:08:30pondlifeI suspect the main problem is the little label marked "menu" under the power button. Ignore that and it becomes easier
21:08:33 Join perrikwp [0] (i=98213942@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c31e3b51909bb26c)
21:09:09kakazzaF�r immer Dein Feind
21:09:11kakazza^−−-
21:09:14fmlbluebrother: do you have such a powerfull PC? There are many manuals to build!
21:09:51bluebrotherhaven't watched the time, but I think it was something less than 10 minutes.
21:10:11fmlhe-he, powerfull = full of power :-)
21:10:21bluebrotherI'm building natively on linux, no idea how fast cygwin is (I guess it's slower). My machine is like 4 years old *g*
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21:11:25 Part pixelma
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21:15:21 Part pondlife
21:15:49fmlbluebrother: will there be a tracker cleaning week/month/...?
21:16:57*bluebrother accuses jhMikeS of top-posting :)
21:17:31bluebrotherfml: maybe. I think it's about time to have one, but I haven't gotten around discussing it a bit more and announcing one (and nobody else did)
21:17:50bluebrotherwouldn't mind if someone else started one.
21:18:41bluebrotherdomonoky: btw, is the voice clipping bug in rbutil now fixed? Or have you identified it?
21:18:50 Join Zagor [242] (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
21:19:14domonokyi have now i talkfile which also clips for me, also in the sim, but i didnt found the bug..
21:19:39domonokythe clipping talkfile: http://www.retrospektiwe.de/The%20Last%20Supper.mp3.talk
21:19:59domonokyit decodes fine with rbspeexdec, so i dont know whats wrong..
21:20:19*linuxstb tries to advertise the Rockbox-as-Application SoC project to any students reading this...
21:20:20domonokyits not "clipped" its cut off, to be correct..
21:20:49 Quit perrikwp (Remote closed the connection)
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21:22:01*jhMikeS wonders where he's been top posting (unless stupid OE is botching something up)
21:22:23kakazzaCan anyone help me with my unicode/umlaut problem?
21:22:59Horschtüöä
21:23:10kakazzaAlmost
21:23:13jhMikeSthe dev ml posts look okay to /me
21:23:26 Quit xanderw (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:23:49bluebrotherjhMikeS: http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2008-03/0073.shtml
21:24:14*bluebrother shudders when thinking of OE
21:24:27jhMikeSbluebrother: I'm looking at the page now - it look very much bottom-posted there
21:25:39bluebrotherunless I'm mixing something up your latest response is at the top
21:25:46kakazzaHi, I got a problem with rockbox. I am using a 2nd gen iPod Mini with Cabbie 2.0 unifont skin. Now japanese filenames work like a charm with the scrobbler.log, but umlauts like äöü don't work at all.
21:25:57kakazza:x
21:25:59fmlLadies and Gentlemen, may I announce that the tacker cleaning week has just begun?
21:26:00LambdaCalculus37kakazza: Yes, you said that already.
21:26:24fmlbluebrother: you said you wouldn't mind ;-)
21:26:30jhMikeSbluebrother: never mind...I hardly know what anyone calls anything anyway :p guess I know now. :)
21:26:31 Quit xander1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:27:10bluebrotherjhMikeS: may I politely ask you to trim quoted text to the required minimum next time? ;-)
21:27:33bluebrotherfml: sure, if noone objects. You might want to go and announce it on the lists as well
21:28:06bluebrotherbut maybe it would be a good idea to announce it a bit before it actually starts and ping Bagder so he can put it to the front page (in case that is wanted)?
21:28:49jhMikeSok. by now it must be obvious I don't ever do much with mail lists and such (I have a single purpose - to code :)
21:29:37bluebrotherhehe. It's not that I bother too much about that mail, it just looks weird if we ask users to not top-post and do it ourselves.
21:30:08 Quit fml ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:30:33jhMikeStrue, I pay little attention to the internet culture and online activity in general. It must look weirder when a developer is getting a spanking for it.
21:33:56kakazzaQuestion tho, where should I put the music files in rockbox. Just in the X:/ directory or in a special folder?
21:34:31linuxstbWherever you wish.
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21:35:09linuxstbPersonallly, I create a "Music" directory and put everything inside there
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21:35:46kakazzaSo you use drag&drop instead of a music management program?
21:36:03BigBambikakazza: Yes, yes, a million times yes
21:36:05Horschtyes
21:36:24Horschttbh, that is the only reason I use rockbox :)
21:39:11*DerPapst notices linuxstb has removed the top navigation bar scorche and him made ;-)
21:39:16*gevaerts looks sideways at Horscht
21:39:19DerPapstfrom the theme site that is.
21:39:27*jhMikeS is grateful he learned something today and has gtg for a bit :)
21:39:30scorche|shDerPapst: eh...he started off fresh
21:39:42scorche|shi told you it was probably going to get redone ;)
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21:40:09DerPapstwas fun though ;-)
21:40:11*Horscht mounts gevaerts sideways to -community
21:40:13scorche|sh:)
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21:49:11amiconnDerPapst: Are you around?
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21:55:59ommegangwhats up with rockbox and the problems with the database updating
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21:56:17n1sommegang: please be more specific
21:57:03ommegangit takes me like 10 minutes of messing with the database configuration to get it to work
21:57:19ommegangi am sure, i am not the only one with this problem as its been like this since the early rel's
21:57:44linuxstbThere's only about 3 options - what do you do for 10 minutes?
21:58:21ommegangeach option repeated alot :)
21:59:37kakazzaWhat files do I need to delete to wipe the database?
22:00
22:00:06scorche|shommegang: you are being awfully vague
22:00:13scorche|shkakazza: all the *.tcd files
22:00:19n1skakazza: anything *.tcd in .rockbox
22:00:27kakazzaThanks
22:00:50ommeganghmm let me try and delete those files maybe it will update.
22:01:00ommegangalso how do i play gameboy roms?
22:01:10scorche|shommegang: that is discussed in the manual
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22:01:18DerPapstamiconn: yupp
22:01:42amiconnDo you have one of your 3rd Gens handy?
22:01:48kakazzaHmm, rockbox still hates Umlauts :/
22:02:04scorche|share you using a unicode font?
22:02:31*amiconn found out how to improve display quality on the greyscale ipods
22:02:40markunamiconn: how?
22:02:42DerPapstnice amiconn :-)
22:02:59DerPapstkakazza: umlaust such as work fine for me
22:03:04bluebrotherkakazza: are your files tagged using the correct codepage?
22:03:10kakazzaThey should be, yes.
22:03:15kakazzaI used foobar2000
22:03:27kakazzaSupposed to be ID3v2.4
22:03:34bluebrotherand Rockbox is set to use the same codepage as your tags do?
22:03:38markunkakazza: what do you see instead of umlauts?
22:03:51amiconnI'm fiddling with the LCD controller. Mainly, I chose the proper drive bias for the given duty cycle. Then I had to adjust some other parameters
22:03:55kakazzaI am using a special WPS tho, cabbie 2.0, unifont. Which made Japanese files work, but made Umlauts not work.
22:04:10kakazzamarkun - I see a [?]
22:04:17amiconnLooks like we can do away with all that special casing...
22:04:38markunkakazza: this should give you some clues: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UnicodeGuide
22:04:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:05:31markunkakazza: which codepage are the tags in?
22:05:34amiconnHmm, looks like that needs a bit more fiddling.
22:06:04markunamiconn: does it give a better contrast?
22:06:18DerPapstamiconn: let me know if you have a patch cooked upfor some testing :-)
22:06:55kakazzamarkun, what program can I use to check?
22:07:17markunI don't know. Doesn't foobar give you a choice?
22:07:48ommegangscorche|sh mind guiding me to where it explains emulation>
22:07:54kakazzaNope, but should be unicode
22:08:30scorche|shommegang: it explains what a viewer is and how to use them
22:09:52markunkakazza: did you see my PM?
22:10:59ommegangok, i see that.
22:11:03ommegangdoes it play nes also
22:13:09kakazzamarkun, I think I fixed it now, checking with scrobbler.log now
22:13:31markunscorche|sh: we don't have any fonts which display japanese but not latin1...
22:13:38markunscorche|sh: oops :)
22:14:00markunforgot to scoll back down and thought you had just said something :)
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22:14:20markunkakazza: what did you change?
22:14:31kakazzaI resaved the tags with mp3tag instead of foobar2000
22:14:35kakazzaGotta try now
22:15:08crzyboysterI just read this page > http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=15709 and was wondering why these app ports aren't being developed more? From what I could understand, the port itself is pretty far ahead.
22:15:11markunfoobar2000 didn't save the tags as APEv2 tags, did it?
22:15:24kakazzaNope
22:15:29 Part ommegang
22:15:51crzyboysterAnd what exactly is the "coupons code" thing on the left hand side of the main rockbox page?
22:16:24kakazzayay, works now~
22:16:31markunkakazza: so, what did you change?
22:16:37markunah, my memory :)
22:16:42Bagdercrzyboyster: paid ad
22:16:42markunignore me
22:16:45BigBambicrzyboyster: You need to ask the people working on the Motorola port (who seemed to turn up once and not be too interested in contributing back)
22:17:16crzyboysterI once went to the forum page of that port (on another forum, I mean). Let me see if I can dig it up again...
22:18:02crzyboysterAnd I am going to start compiling together all of the cabbiev2unifont versions today.
22:19:02crzyboysterAnd it would be great if a wps file (say cabbiev2_unifont) could link up with a wps images folder called say, cabbiev2 so that the only thing we would need to offer for downloading is the wps file in a zip.
22:19:10crzyboysterFeature request?
22:20:51 Quit crzyboyster ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:22:22BigBambiAnyone else agree I can reject this as not going to happen? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8772
22:22:49BigBambiHe wants playing an album through the database to ignore the global shuffle setting
22:23:01BigBambi(if an additional setting is enabled)
22:23:29*DerPapst converts FS #8772 into a gsoc app
22:24:55phinzeDerPapst: what's your timeline look like? ;)
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22:25:06bluebrotherBigBambi: I think the quick menu can do the same
22:25:16Horschtbasicaly, he wants an "shuffle album" shuffle option
22:25:23BigBambibluebrother: I just don't see us ever doing it
22:25:27Horscht*album shuffle
22:25:33BigBambiAnd as you say the quick menu is pretty quick
22:25:55bluebrotheryep −− using the quick menu isn't really more complicated
22:25:56kugelBigBambi: I'd reject it too
22:26:05BigBambiHorscht: Well he really wants an additional option to disable shuffle when playing albums
22:26:19gevaertsphinze: obvious. Debate about it for 11 weeks and then implement a bad compromise in the last week :)
22:26:34Horschtno, he wants rockbox to shuffle his albums, BigBambi
22:26:35Horschtas in
22:26:50BigBambiHorscht: No, he doesn't
22:26:53Horschtpick randum album #1, play it in order, then pick album #2
22:27:16bluebrotherHorscht, BigBambi: if the request is that unclear that we need to discuss it this much it's worth closing ;-)
22:27:21phinzeHorscht: you're right. he doesn't state it very well, but that's what he's asking for
22:27:27BigBambiHorscht: He wants shuffle on if he selects any other item except for album in the database, in which case he does not want to shuffle
22:27:41BigBambiRead his comment, he clarifies it
22:27:50Horschthe is definately refering to apple firmware
22:27:58kugelFor it doesn't really matter. I'd reject both :)
22:28:05kugels/it/me
22:28:07Horschtapple firmware does what I described.
22:28:12bluebrotherif he sorts his music in an artist / album fashion he can randomly shuffle albums using the random folder feature
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22:28:18markunHorscht: but nothing about selecting a random album
22:28:33BigBambiHorscht: MarkGuey describes what you just said in his comment, and the gyt said that wan't what he meant
22:28:41bluebrotherwho cares about AppleOS anyway?
22:28:52markunApple?
22:29:02BigBambiAnyway, it is shut now
22:30:59BigBambiSetting a limit for max volume has been discussed and rejected before now as well I think hasn't it?
22:31:17BigBambiWith the compromise that you can use eg precut to limit max volume
22:32:06phinzebluebrother: where would the random folder feature be found?
22:32:55phinzei know when browsing the db you get <Random> when you're sitting inside a folder... is that what you're referring to?
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22:34:58BigBambiphinze: Run the random _folder_advance_config plugin to set it up
22:35:43BigBambiand then set auto-change diectory to random
22:35:56BigBambi(this is in the file browser playback, not database)
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22:36:47phinzeBigBambi: thanks, looks cool
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22:40:23kugelProbably not ontopic, but I was just reading the post about the rockbox sim on motorola mobile phones (http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14165.0), and I wonder why the post count of the topic starter is still at 1. Is that a bug in the forum?
22:41:38scorche|shposts in the unsupported builds forum are not counted
22:41:39BigBambikugel: Post count does not incremement for posts in the unsupported builds forum
22:41:51kugelah ok, I didn't know that
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22:43:56domonokybringing this motorola port/fork back into svn would be a nice gsoc project ! :-)
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22:44:45shotofaddsBagder: here?
22:44:46scorche|shi think it would be too much work to remove all the patches he put in there ;)
22:44:53Bagdershotofadds: just a bit
22:45:33shotofaddswhat do you think about adding the D2 builds to the table soon? the menu and plugnis are functional now
22:45:41 Part xander2
22:45:52BagderI'd love to, I believe in adding early
22:46:02Bagderas long as it doesn't have a bazillion warnings
22:46:22shotofaddsplenty of warnings still though (mostly those stupid '#warning not implemented' that I added...)
22:46:30shotofaddshehe..
22:46:42Bagderthe whole triplet bootloader, normal and sim?
22:46:46scorche|shcould release it tomorrow ;)
22:47:12Bagderoh the sim is already there
22:47:23kugelshotofadds: does the nand driver work now?
22:47:31shotofaddsit's something like 0/17/47 warnings at the last count (sim/boot/main). I think I need to work on those...
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22:48:00Bagderwell, having it in the table also helps when working on the warnings
22:48:29shotofaddskugel: mostly. there are still some issues related to recently-written blocks, but not it's workable.
22:48:34Bagderbut I'm really off to bed now, if I don't add it tomorrow please remind me!
22:48:43*Bagder runs away
22:48:50pixelmaBagder: could you check (and hopefully) put the voice download links...
22:48:53shotofaddsBagder: that's why I asked, it provides an incentive to fix them :-)
22:50:05kugelshotofadds: I very much appreciate your work on that player. I definitely allready bought one to help you if it wasn't too expensive for me. But in general, I think rockbox on d2 is just great
22:52:31shotofaddskugel: I think it's nice to be able to play with a new architecture. It also opens the door to a number of similar Telechips players in the future :-)
22:54:53kugelsamsungs, f.e. ;)
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23:00
23:00:40 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]")
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23:10:39amiconnDerPapst: still here?
23:11:25gevaertsphinze: did you manage to look into this usb audio thing yet ?
23:12:23phinzegevaerts: only preliminary investigation. i was planning on hiding from all normal classwork to power through an application by tonight, but getting word of the week extension to the GSoC deadline meant life can go on as normal
23:12:34phinzeso i'll be looking into it in the next day or two :)
23:12:54 Quit mrkiko ("Lost terminal")
23:13:13n1samiconn: did you see my suggestion for how to do localization in plugins in the wiki (LocalizablePlugins)? You seemed to be interested in the subject and I would like comments :)
23:13:35gevaertsphinze: Great. I would recommend some usb introductory text, but unfortunately I don't really know of any (I learned it myself by reading the spec seven or eight years ago)
23:13:38n1sI will probably try to implement it next week (if I can convince genlang to play nice...)
23:14:09DerPapstamiconn: yes
23:14:36phinzegevaerts: looks like the library at my uni has a couple... i'll go look into it
23:15:00bertrikthere's a really great USB introduction text called "USB in a nutshell"
23:15:26bertrikhttp://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb1.htm but there's a PDF somewhere on the website too
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23:15:46*gevaerts goes to learn about usb
23:15:56amiconnDerPapst: amiconn.dyndns.org/lcd-gray.diff">http://amiconn.dyndns.org/lcd-gray.diff
23:15:56phinzeUniversal Serial Bus System Architecture c2001
23:15:57phinzeUSB Complete : Everything You Need To Develop Custom USB Peripherals c1999
23:15:57phinzeUSB Complete : Everything You Need To Develop Custom USB Peripherals c2005
23:15:57DBUGEnqueued KICK phinze
23:15:57phinzeUSB Design By Example : A Practical Guide To Building I/O Devices c2001
23:15:58phinzeUSB Explained
23:16:05phinzethose are the five i have available
23:16:05bertrikand I heard the books by Jan Axelson are good too
23:16:22amiconnPlease note that the default contrast changed. It's now 46 for G1..G3
23:17:04amiconnIf you have a different contrast set and can't see the menu, either delete the contrast: line from your config, or reset settings
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23:17:38phinzegotta run to class. later all
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23:18:04amiconnIf it works, it would be nice if you could also build the test_scanrate plugin and check the internal scan rate of the G3 LCD. I expect around 96Hz
23:18:08DerPapstamiconn: will do
23:18:21DerPapst(both)
23:18:51amiconnThis patch will be a nice simplification - if it works...
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23:19:29DerPapsti assume you've tested it on your G2 already?
23:19:35 Quit DerDome (Client Quit)
23:20:13amiconnG2 and G1
23:20:42DerPapstdoes test_scanrate work on all bitmap targets?
23:20:47amiconnno
23:21:13DerPapstok
23:21:37amiconnIt works on all targets which have lcd_blit_mono(), i.e. all monochrome and greyscale targets, but not yet m:robe 100, iFP7xx and logikdax
23:21:45DerPapst#if defined(HAVE_LCD_BITMAP) && (LCD_DEPTH < 4) && !defined(SIMULATOR) ;-)
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23:26:38DerPapstyour classes are pretty short phinze
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23:26:57phinzeDerPapst: it's an embedded systems seminar... laptops acceptable ;)
23:27:06DerPapstheh
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23:30:41domonokyembedded systems... tell them about applying to rockbox gsoc :-)
23:31:59gevaertsdepends on what kind of embedded systems. Rockbox is huge compared to some
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23:32:37domonokyor small compared to some other embedded system.. :-)
23:32:50 Quit petur ("dada")
23:33:17gevaertsAlso true :)
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23:34:36gevaertsphinze: you can probably ignore most (or all) of the mechanical and electrical bits in usb.
23:34:38bluebrotherbertrik: http://www.beyondlogic.org/usbnutshell/usb-in-a-nutshell.pdf
23:34:49DerPapstmeh.. at least one second per compiled c file on cygwin :-/
23:36:20kakazzaHow long should "building database" take with 944 Elements?
23:36:23bertrikDerPapst: indeed, compiling with cygwin takes about 3 times as long as it does under linux
23:36:24phinzebluebrother: that looks like a good start, and I'll pick up USB Complete by Jan Axelson from the library as per bertrik's recommendation
23:36:30kakazza>5 Minutes?
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23:38:31domonokyphinze: to apply successfully to rockbox gsco you have to convice at least 5 other students to apply.. ;-)
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23:38:49phinzedomonoky: bwah?
23:38:51phinze;)
23:38:54bluebrotherdomonoky: don't scare him away! ;-)
23:39:15CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
23:39:15*domonoky just wanted to start some pyramid scheme :-)
23:39:21moosBigBambi, linuxstb: hi, received yours c240? came a v1 one here
23:39:42linuxstbmoos: Yes, mine arrived last week - also a v1.
23:39:54BigBambimoos: It has been delivered, but not to the same country as me yet, but yes, it is a v1 :)
23:39:58bluebrotherdomonoky: remember, too many cooks ...
23:39:58moosnice :)
23:40:25gevaertsbluebrother: ... spoil the TV schedule ?
23:40:35bluebrotheryeps
23:40:44kakazzaWhere are the changelogs for the releases?
23:41:15BigBambiWhat releases?
23:41:27BigBambiYou can see the changes to SVN via the front page
23:41:37BigBambiAnd there is also a MajorChanges wiki page
23:41:47BigBambiBut there hasn't been a release in years
23:42:04BigBambiA new build is produced on every source code change though
23:42:10domonokyrockbox has given us this release thing, it doesnt work :-)
23:42:15phinzedomonoky: only if there's an iPod involved :)
23:43:14domonokys/us/up .. :-)
23:43:50DerPapstah bummer. i thought the holy rockbox gve it to us :-(
23:43:53DerPapst*gave
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23:45:33DerPapsthmm... "test_viewports.c:32:7: warning: extra tokens at end of #else directive"
23:48:01*amiconn fetches beer
23:49:53amiconnDerPapst: There's a bug in my patch. Line 142 of lcd-gray.c must read:
23:49:55amiconn#if defined(IPOD_1G2G) || defined(IPOD_3G)
23:49:56markunamiconn: cheers!
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23:50:05DerPapstheh ok
23:50:10pixelmaiCatcher also has the "no real 0db icon" problem but it's not so obvious why to do with it in this case :\
23:50:15amiconnOtherwise you won't get the new default contrast on G3
23:50:18pixelma*what
23:50:36DerPapstneed to figure out why test_whatever hasn't been compiled
23:50:55DerPapstok
23:51:32bertrikDerPapst: I think the #else if should be changed to #elif
23:51:45*amiconn should probably stop using the short form #ifdef, and always use #if defined instead
23:52:16gevaertsphinze: Once you more or less understand usb, I guess you'll need to know how USB audio works. The specs are at http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs but I can probably give you a brief overview based on what I understand about it. Just yell whenever you want that
23:52:30DerPapstbertrik: haven't used #elif
23:52:48phinzegevaerts: will do
23:53:53bertrikDerPapst: I mean in test_viewports.c line 32
23:54:08DerPapstah :-)
23:54:09DerPapstheh
23:54:30*gevaerts spots something suspect on the last page of that usb introductory pdf
23:54:35amiconnjhMikeS: The new WAIT_FAILED macro in kernel.h collides with a mingw definition
23:54:49amiconn(when compiling the sim on cygwin)
23:55:31bertrikgevaerts: what?
23:55:58DerPapstamiconn: i hope i'm not being stupid now but doesn't #if defined(HAVE_LCD_BITMAP) && (LCD_DEPTH < 4) [..] have to be #if defined(HAVE_LCD_BITMAP) && defined(LCD_DEPTH < 4) [..]?
23:56:16DerPapstin test_scanrate.c line 22
23:56:17amiconnWhere is that?
23:56:44 Part Chipsaru
23:56:48phinzegevaerts: something wrong with the enumeration description?
23:56:56amiconnUmm, not here....
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23:57:29bluebrotherDerPapst: sounds strange −− defined(foo < bar) doesn't make sense to me
23:57:39amiconnDerPapst: I misread. The line is correct in test_scanrate.c
23:58:09DerPapstah ok
23:58:30amiconnYou need to enable it in apps/plugins/SOURCES. All test plugins aren't enabled by default
23:58:31gevaertsbertrik, phinze steps 3,4 and 8 seem wrong (unless old versions of windows really behaved that way...). IIRC in step 3 it asks for 8 bytes on low speed. Step 4 sounds plain wrong to me, and in step 8 it asks for whatever wTotalSize was, not 255

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