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#rockbox log for 2008-04-10

00:00:01 Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (n=dave@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
00:00:02bluebrotherindeed
00:00:09scorche|sht** would be better..
00:00:16 Quit midgey (Client Quit)
00:00:24 Quit linuxstb_ (Nick collision from services.)
00:00:30scorche|shi found it amusing that one service claimed that it prevented people from seeing your mac address...
00:00:42scorche|shthey needed to be hit with a printout of the OSI model...
00:00:45gevaertsDid it work ? :)
00:01:11BagderI have a service that prevents web sites from seeing my phone number!
00:01:13 Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu)
00:01:13 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:01:18BagderB-P
00:01:27Mode"#rockbox +z " by scorche|sh (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
00:01:29bluebrotherunplugging the network cable always works :)
00:01:56preglowhaha
00:01:57 Quit midgey (Client Quit)
00:02:04 Join cbr|w [0] (n=cbr@212.98.160.130)
00:02:14pregloware people willing to pay to keep their mac addresses hidden? i can provide! :P
00:02:36*BigBambi doesn't care - he doesn't have a Mac anyway ;)
00:02:43bluebrotherLOL :)
00:02:57 Quit webguest05 (Client Quit)
00:03:05preglownooblet
00:03:06scorche|shhaha...you should have seen what he was saying
00:03:07 Join webguest15 [0] (n=403e8a4a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-5eae75a94b66f4ee)
00:03:09BagderI could pay to get somone else's Mac hidden? ;-)
00:03:13n1sNico_P: I'm an idiot of course it's not in data/bss _but_ as buffering.c has static functions that don't have any symbols in the map it might be one of them
00:03:15preglowwebguest15: ask for a refund...
00:03:29 Quit ol_schoola ()
00:03:40*amiconn is wondering what Nico_P wants to do
00:03:48*amiconn is also wondering what +z is
00:03:51scorche|shwebguest15: and how would rockbox be sued? ;)
00:04:00Nico_PI have a data abort on target and I want to find out where it happened
00:04:14scorche|shamiconn: relaxed moderation...so i can see what he is saying and laugh while it isnt spamming others
00:04:22 Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu)
00:04:28*petur feels like missing part of the conversation
00:04:35*BigBambi too
00:04:42scorche|shhe is muted, but since the channel is +z and i am an op, i can see what he is saying
00:05:00*preglow is too old for irc wars
00:05:03amiconnNico_P: Well, you have the address, and the pastebin you posted suggests it's within buffering.o
00:05:10 Quit midgey (Client Quit)
00:05:10scorche|shpreglow: join #rockbox-community if you want to see..
00:05:19preglowscorche|sh: nah, not really ;)
00:05:28amiconnUnfortunately the linker doesn't sort functions by address within an object, so it's a bit of seraching
00:05:33preglowi prefer to keep my idiots ignored
00:05:33Nico_Pamiconn: actually it's a bit out of the region of the pastebin
00:06:03 Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu)
00:06:17n1sNico_P: static functions don't show in the map so it could be in one of them
00:06:27Nico_P:/
00:06:37amiconnIt clearly is within that region... unless the abort address is adifferent one than the one you posted here along with the pastebin link, 000095FC
00:06:48Nico_Pit's that one, yeah
00:06:48gevaertsNico_P: do you still have the .elf file ?
00:06:52Nico_Pyes
00:06:59Nico_PI have a vague idea where it is, but no idea why it happends
00:07:07gevaertsobjdump −−syms will help
00:07:08Nico_Pand it doesn't happen on sim
00:07:28Nico_Pgevaerts: I've tried that. should I sort it?
00:07:33gevaertsNico_P: yes
00:07:41amiconnYOu have several options to find the function, and with some more digging even the exact line of code
00:07:51 Join ol_schoola [0] (n=meatwad@c-67-167-20-91.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
00:08:08 Quit midgey (Client Quit)
00:08:19amiconnIn the list you pasted, find the highest address below the data abort, and the lowest address above the data abort
00:08:22Nico_Phttp://pastebin.ca/978900
00:08:38 Quit ol_schoola (Client Quit)
00:09:04Nico_Pamiconn: it turns out they're all above
00:09:05 Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu)
00:09:09amiconnhuh?
00:09:15 Quit webguest15 (Client Quit)
00:09:27Nico_Pamiconn: in the first pastebin
00:09:28amiconnbuffering.o starts at 0x00008598 - that's clearly below
00:09:28Nico_Pthe second pastebin is from objdump −−syms
00:09:57amiconnThe addresses are not sorted - that's why you need to search a bit
00:09:59Nico_Phmm yes
00:10:13 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=dave@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
00:10:16amiconnI don't know why the linker doesn't sort them - always annyoed me
00:10:20 Join ol_schoola [0] (n=meatwad@c-67-167-20-91.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
00:10:51 Quit midgey (Client Quit)
00:10:53 Quit linuxstb (Nick collision from services.)
00:11:01 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=dave@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:11:11 Quit ol_schoola (Client Quit)
00:11:17amiconnThe function addresses are indeed all above the crash address - that means the crash happens somewhere before the first non-static function in buffering.c
00:11:18 Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu)
00:11:40gevaertsNico_P: seems to be in
00:11:53gevaertsNico_P: seems to be in fill_buffer
00:11:54amiconnAnyway, I think it's easiest to disassemble buffering.o with objdump, adjusting the vma to the start address of the module
00:12:13amiconnThis way all functions within the disassembly show their correct address
00:12:46 Quit bluebrother ("'nite guys")
00:14:07amiconnarm-elf-objdump -d apps/buffering.o −−adjust-vma=0x8598 >buffering_dis.S
00:14:55 Quit Jon-Kha (Remote closed the connection)
00:15:23 Join Chronon [0] (i=vircuser@d23-104.uoregon.edu)
00:16:33 Join Zarggg [0] (n=z@216-15-73-111.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com)
00:16:34Nico_Pamiconn: that's very cool :) http://pastebin.ca/978909
00:17:53BHSPitMonkeyBagder, interesting project you pointed out... Glad to see my app was at least read over ;)
00:18:04Bagder:-)
00:18:41 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:19:27BagderI think reading all the applications and giving sensible feedback is the least we can do
00:19:36amiconnNico_P: Now compare that with your C code (I assume this is non-svn), and you found the line where it crashes
00:19:54Nico_Pamiconn: it is actually the same as SVN... I'm comparing
00:20:12BHSPitMonkeyHow many came in this year?
00:20:26BagderBHSPitMonkey: 27
00:20:40Bagderand a few rubbish ones
00:20:42BHSPitMonkeyThat's a bit more than last, eh?
00:20:56Bagderyes, we had 20 in total last year
00:20:57 Quit CyBergRind|w (Success)
00:21:15 Join amdgoon [0] (n=amdgoon@142.13.141.11)
00:21:27*Bagder goes to sleep(3600 * a_few);
00:21:50Nico_Pamiconn: I think I have some data corruption, leading to m->next being totally fubar
00:22:08amiconnBagder: ticks? ;)
00:22:13BHSPitMonkeyheh
00:22:22BHSPitMonkeyamdgoon, yep, he's back
00:22:38amiconnThat won't be very long...
00:22:40BHSPitMonkeyamdgoon, sorry. TAB-Completion.
00:22:51amdgoonoh, no worries
00:23:18 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
00:23:20*preglow summons shotofadds
00:23:35BHSPitMonkeyI've gotten to the point where three characters of typing a nick is just not tolerable :P
00:23:38amiconnNico_P: That crash is eaxctly the ->filerem access in if (m->filerem > 0) {
00:23:45Mode"#rockbox -o scorche|sh " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
00:25:40Nico_Pamiconn: m can't be null, so that means m->next got currupted in the parent handle
00:25:46amiconnThe loop is a while loop and gcc went cheap and placed a branch (b 961c) to the condition check after the actual loop content. So ldr r3, [r4, #288] is actually the first instruction within the loop - the m->filerem fetch
00:25:50Nico_PI'm clearly doing somehing wrong
00:26:02amiconnNo, it means that m isn't 32 bit aligned
00:26:10Nico_Pah, that's very possible
00:26:37amiconnOn arm (and also on SH, but not on coldfire), accesses must be aligned, or you'll get a data abort
00:27:36amiconnSome arm versions allow to disable that abort, and give rotated data instead on an unaligned fetch - even worse if you ask me...
00:28:14preglowpixelma: i appreciate the bitmap-stripification you're doing, btw, been looking forward to less bmps :)
00:29:01Nico_Pamiconn: thanks a ton for your help
00:29:12amiconnnp
00:29:30preglowamiconn: even worse by far... total confusion instead of crash
00:29:56amiconnpreglow: Well, if you really go nuts, you can use it for optimisations...
00:30:07preglowyeah, but...
00:30:11 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:30:15preglowi really prefer the debugability of a data abort
00:30:19pixelmathanks :) need motivation for the rest of the "Rockboxed" theme badly because the rest of the ports has some weird "we combine our e.g. battery status by using multiple bitmaps)...
00:30:59amiconnIirc gigabeat f/x allow that kind of accesses... and for some reason, enabling alignment check in cp15 doesn't werk... (I once made a patch for testing this)
00:31:23preglowwhat, so it never generates a data abort?
00:31:32amiconnyes, exactly
00:31:36preglowhow useful
00:32:16amiconnOn arm systems featuring cp15, it *should* allow enabling alignment check...
00:33:29amiconnSee arm reference manual, part B, section 3.6.1: alignment fault
00:34:14amiconnCP15, register 1 bit 1
00:35:32 Quit herrwaldo (Remote closed the connection)
00:35:51 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:35:57 Quit n1s ()
00:36:15 Quit sarixe ("(EE) Failed to load "quit" module")
00:42:14Nico_Pamiconn: are you certain the data abortis caused by misaligned data?
00:42:29amiconnyes
00:42:34Nico_Pand not by data corruption that makes the pointer point to bogus data
00:42:42amiconnThat's what a data abort indicates - a misaligned access
00:42:58preglowthere's no question about it
00:43:12preglowonly other kind of memory exception is a prefetch abort, and that looks clearly different
00:43:13Nico_Pok, so must've made a mistkae in where or what to align
00:43:37amiconnOf course, a corrupted pointer also has that effect (in 75% of all cases in case of a 32 bit access)
00:44:15preglowhmm, i wonder how an arm with an mmu handles an unmapped access
00:44:24preglowor an access violation
00:46:18*amiconn recommends part B section 3.6.1 of the arm reference manual one more
00:46:26preglowome other time, perhaps :V
00:46:30preglowapproaching bedtime now
00:47:32*amiconn thinks that any kind of unmapped access handling would be better than what happens on coldfire
00:47:50Nico_Pthere's no reason why things should be misaligned... I think I'm corrupting the pointer
00:51:58 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend")
00:52:42 Join atmishere [0] (i=atm@116.68.114.204)
00:53:06 Quit PaulJam (".")
00:53:22Nico_Plooks like I fixed the problem by reverting a change I shouldn't have made
00:54:17atmisheregevaerts:Hi Gevaerts...
00:54:39gevaertsHi
00:55:10atmisheregevaerts:I am atm,about porting...????
00:55:17gevaertsI know :)
00:56:12 Quit ender` (" Why do people give each other flowers? To celebrate various important occasions, they're killing living creatures? Why rest")
00:56:28atmishereGevaerts:I am now free for few days as my first exam is over.It was "almost" easy.Now I am ready to discuss about it as next is on next week
00:57:40moosatmishere: What is your project?
00:57:50gevaertsatmishere: I'm not actually the right person to discuss this with. I seem to be doing lots of semi-administrative stuff like checking if applications contain everything they need, but technically, I'm not the one to talk to about your project
00:58:28 Join twavisdegwet [0] (i=444baeca@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-394ca0797d33cc91)
00:58:50 Quit BlakeJohnson86 ("Leaving.")
00:58:50twavisdegwetso ugh.. do you guys know about any progress about importing rockbox over to da zune
00:59:06peturnone
00:59:12 Quit roolku ()
00:59:24twavisdegwetwhat like there is no progress? or you don't know of any?
00:59:28 Join BlakeJohnson86 [0] (n=bjohnson@c-24-118-135-22.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
00:59:38peturno progress, nobody working on it
01:00
01:00:13twavisdegwetso my zune is stuck sitting here with all this wifi potential
01:00:23 Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:00:30scorche|shfeel free to start working on the port yourself :)
01:01:09twavisdegwetis rockbox linux based? cause then i might just do that..
01:01:18peturno
01:02:03twavisdegwetokay so if i want rockbox i'm gonna have to buy an ipod :(
01:02:17scorche|shthere are plenty of other devices rockobx runs on besides ipods
01:02:34moosjust check the rockbox front page...
01:02:46zeis it just me or is availability of high-capacity DAP's rather low these days
01:02:54twavisdegweti know i saw those but ipods are the most obvious thing you think of when you hear rockbox
01:02:58zewalk into a store and all you see are <5G and ipods
01:03:24twavisdegwetAND ZUNES./.. with no rockbox ='(
01:03:25scorche|shze: well, stores are a different story...they arent going to carry the older stuff
01:03:42 Join krz [0] (n=irc_by@turbo.sml.by)
01:03:49zescorche|sh: why are all the non-ipod/non-zune high-capacity models "older stuff" though?
01:03:52zeheh
01:04:19scorche|shthe ipod models we support are "older stuff" too
01:04:19 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk)
01:04:27scorche|shrockbox ports take time
01:04:38twavisdegwetthis is probably do to the fact that if anything that was close to ipods capacityt and cheaper then it would take the ipod off of shelves and then apple would stop giving support
01:04:43krzhi! anyone from mentors here?
01:04:46zei still don't see even non-supported ones though
01:04:47zeheh
01:04:53scorche|shkrz: plenty...what did you need?
01:05:09scorche|shze: plenty to be found on ebay
01:05:25krzscorche|sh: just a question about the given task: Make a GUI in your chosen toolkit that uses the core rockbox code to validate a WPS. Please look at checkwps as a reference.
01:05:33Chrononand for much cheaper than you'll find at a retail outlet too. . .
01:05:36twavisdegwetughoh theres enough people in this irc channel to merit the name: stuff..
01:05:47scorche|shtwavisdegwet: huh?
01:06:02krzscorche|sh: should it be only GUI?
01:06:17 Quit moos ("Good night")
01:06:20twavisdegwetscorche|sh: just saying that people don't type peoples names then there message unless theres alot of people in the current channel
01:06:21scorche|shkrz: well, it should be a GUI program
01:06:36krzscorche|sh: what should it do?
01:06:39scorche|shtwavisdegwet: that is a good idea even on smaller channels
01:07:14atmisheremoos:Porting Rock Box to Android.... :)
01:07:18twavisdegweti suppose but if a answer is written then the contents of the answer makes the implication of who you are talking 2
01:07:30atmishereshall we disucc on that...
01:07:43zetwavisdegwet: i do that sometimes even in a 3-person channel, often to help distinguish a response to something in particular from unrelated chatter
01:08:31Chrononatmishere: moos left, if that's who you're talking to. . .
01:08:33scorche|shkrz: it should validate a wps file...i.e. make sure that it will be accepted by our parser...we already have a tool that does this (checkwps), but you are to make a GUI implementation of it...quite easy as most of the back-end parsing is already done in checkwps
01:08:36twavisdegweti suppose when it is phrased that way it does seem to make a lil bit of sense for the people in here actually trying to get help.. to my dissapointtment however rockbox is not going to be on the zune anytime in the near future..
01:09:15scorche|shtwavisdegwet: well, it certainly isnt going to happen by itself with no one working on it...if you work on it, you at least know it will get accomplished at some point ;)
01:09:24 Join ol_schoola [0] (n=meatwad@c-67-167-20-91.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
01:09:47twavisdegweti probably could.. save me the research what's rockbox coded in?
01:09:52scorche|shC
01:09:53krzscorche|sh: thanks, i see!
01:10:22 Quit petur ("Zzzz")
01:10:25twavisdegwethmm.. i actually do have training in that.. and i do have a zune.. i do have the will.. but what to do..
01:10:37atmishereMy GSoC project....Porting Rock Box to Android.... :) shall we discuss about that..
01:10:57twavisdegwetwtf is android
01:11:19scorche|shatmishere: what did you want to discuss?
01:11:28atmishereandroid is an open mobile platform by java
01:11:32atmisheresorry
01:11:35atmishereby google
01:11:35 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:11:39zes/porting/reimplimenting/
01:11:45ze:p
01:12:08atmishereSo I want to port RockBox to Android...SIMPLE..
01:12:11atmishere;)
01:12:38scorche|shnot so simple as you are suggesting to reimplement many parts fo rockbox into java...
01:13:02zeatmishere: you should get some avr's or something and make a nice open-source DAP design and port rockbox to that
01:13:53scorche|sherrr...
01:13:59atmisherewhat is avr??? I can't get it.
01:14:09zea family of microcontrollers
01:14:16scorche|shatmishere: dont worry about his comment..
01:14:18atmishereok..
01:14:39atmishereactually i don't have to i think...because
01:14:57zei'm just saying, it'd probably be easier and more useful :p
01:15:02atmisherethere is an api to provide them in ANdroid itself that's the java part...
01:15:11atmishereze: It's ok
01:15:21scorche|shatmishere: so C will run on android fine?
01:15:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:15:59twavisdegwetlol looks like he's gonna say maybe :D
01:16:06atmisherealmost fine...
01:16:31atmisherethere is a set up provided by google to support C i java
01:16:44atmishereC in java
01:16:51scorche|shdo you have a link to that?
01:17:33atmisherescorche|sh:just wait...Let me try...
01:17:51atmisherescorche|sh:good name after all keep it up...;)
01:19:40 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:20:52twavisdegwetya dosn't look like zune rokcbox will happen before zune linux.. so i'll just wait for both of them.. so i'm gonna go i might talk to you guys later but probably not
01:21:05 Quit twavisdegwet ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
01:22:49scorche|sh...
01:23:08*scorche|sh stifles a giggle
01:23:27 Quit gevaerts ("Must...Not...Sleep...Yet...erwyurewvbw")
01:23:41atmisherescorche|sh:please wait..
01:23:56scorche|shatmishere: oh the giggle wasnt about you..
01:24:08atmisherescorche|sh:http://benno.id.au/blog/2007/11/13/android-native-apps
01:24:23atmisherescorche|sh:here is a link of proof ;)
01:25:43scorche|shatmishere: that is better than nothing, i suppose, but do you know how you would use the display in C?
01:26:09ChrononIt seems to be the android version of Java's Native Interface.
01:26:28scorche|shhe doesnt mention any way of using peripherals/audio/display/etc...do you know how you would in C?
01:28:39atmishereI would prefer searching about using them after my exams... this was just a proof...that's all
01:28:50atmishereIt will...
01:29:29scorche|shwell, yes, but it isnt very useful if you dont know how to interact with various peripherals and output methods
01:29:56atmisherescorche|sh:ok
01:30:22atmisherescorche|sh:I will try to do some home work about that today about that.
01:30:27 Quit JdGordon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:30:28atmisherescorche|sh:is that ok
01:30:39scorche|shi am not trying to dissuade you...just pointing out that it really isnt "SIMPLE" ;)
01:30:56atmisherescorche|sh:I really mean it...
01:31:01atmishere;)
01:31:38atmisherescorche|sh:I should study it afterall to do something like a large software port....
01:32:27scorche|shatmishere: most certainly...this isnt something one can slip by on without knowledge of how the internals of android work
01:33:05 Join TaylorKillian [0] (n=Administ@rs225196.resnet.wright.edu)
01:33:19TaylorKillianhey, any mentors around?
01:33:52scorche|shthat depends...is there a reason we should be hiding?
01:34:16TaylorKillianI was messaged about a programming challenge (for the arm emulator) an also about an irc meeting
01:34:25*scorche|sh nods
01:34:56TaylorKillianmay i ask what the general topic of the discussion will be?
01:35:09 Join Shaid [0] (n=adam@dsl-202-45-112-116-static.VIC.netspace.net.au)
01:35:22TaylorKilliani will be leaving town tomorrow and am not sure how often i will be able to get on the net during that time
01:35:27atmisherescorche|sh:I think internals is not required as ANDROID will act as Virtual System for Rock box,interface..
01:36:50scorche|shTaylorKillian: it will just be a standard sort of interview...seeing your knowledge level, your thoughts on the direction of the project, your dedication, etc
01:36:53TaylorKillianas for the challenge, i'll get started on it tonight and see what i can do while i'm out of town
01:37:01qwmthat's nonsense, scorche|sh
01:37:04 Part qwm
01:37:15TaylorKillianlol @ qwm
01:37:34scorche|shatmishere: if you dont need to know about the internals, then tell me how you are going to output sound and to the screen using C and the compiler you linked..
01:37:42scorche|shTaylorKillian: when will you be out of town?
01:37:53 Join midgey_ [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu)
01:38:19TaylorKillianscorche|sh: I will actually be back before the april 15th cutoff
01:38:39TaylorKilliani will be leaving in 12hrs and wont be back until the 14th
01:38:39*DerPapst just noticed the gsoc test tasks have been rewritten
01:38:57scorche|shTaylorKillian: ah...good...well, we can talk then, however see what you can do about the task :)
01:39:01 Quit midgey (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:39:32TaylorKillianscorche|sh: yeah, i'll definitely bring my laptop
01:39:47*scorche|sh wouldnt dream of travelling without a laptop
01:41:22DavidS2DerPapst: has all your work been for nothing, or is it just the wording that changed?
01:42:04scorche|shDavidS2: naw...he completed his task :)
01:44:25DerPapstDavidS2: i think it's fine :-)
01:44:42DavidS2cool, now i just need to finish mine.
01:44:55DerPapstWhat's your task?
01:45:19DerPapst...if i may ask ;-)
01:45:27DavidS2Program a gui to interface with the rockbox code to test if a wps is valid, the thememaker test.
01:45:54DerPapstah. :-)
01:46:08DavidS2I already got the gui done i am just tring to get my head arround the rock box code.
01:46:29scorche|shcheckwps makes things pretty easy for you ;)
01:46:49DerPapstwhat gui toolkit are you using? QT?
01:47:39DavidS2yeah i have looked into that and well to test things, i added in the header used by that code not making any calls but i get some weird error about playlist emun being called before being declaired
01:48:14DavidS2yeah i am using QT, never used it before but i like it now.
01:48:50*DerPapst has never done any gui stuff except for rockbox and ipodlinux ^^
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01:51:57DavidS2I should also say anytime is good for an interview with me, i live in the Newfoundland time zone -3.5 i think
01:52:55Chronon-3.5? Weird!
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01:55:03DavidSGyeah we are one of those 1/2 time zones
01:56:29atmishereI'm 5
01:56:44atmishere+5 i mean ;)
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01:59:45DavidS15 wow major difference
02:00
02:00:27DavidS1that means it is 6 am for you?
02:02:17DerPapst2 am here and i should get to sleep o.O
02:03:08DavidS1have a good one? since you are also a student good luck any exams you may have.
02:03:27DavidS1s/?/./
02:03:41DerPapstheh.. still some time before exams
02:03:53DerPapstthough lots of tests and stuff.
02:04:19DavidS1lucky for you this is my exam week.
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02:04:54krazykitthis channel is still an on-topic channel...
02:04:57*DavidS1 reminds himeslef this conversation is offtopic
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02:05:25DavidS1yeah sorry about that, we started talking about summer of code.
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02:06:03atmishereWhere could I find gsoc test tasks....please help.....
02:06:39DavidS1your student application page? it is added as a comment, at least that is where i got mine.
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02:06:48cendreshello
02:06:59Chrononhi cendres
02:07:16atmisheredavids1:what do you get??
02:07:29cendresrockbox doesn't display file names for mpeg files
02:07:32cendresit used to
02:07:51cendresis there a setting for this?
02:07:52ChrononWhat does it display?
02:08:08cendresit shows an empty directory
02:08:11ChrononDid you change your "show files" setting?
02:08:12DavidS1atmishere: are you asking what is my test?
02:08:28ChrononMake sure it's set to "supported" or "all"
02:08:50cendresChronon: where, in rockbox settings?
02:09:11atmisheredavids1:yes..of cours
02:09:23ChrononIf you long Select on the file browser entry in the main menu it will take you to that option
02:10:17ChrononOr you can look in the General Settings menu.
02:10:35ChrononSettings > General Settings > File View
02:10:45DavidS1atmishere: write a gui to interface with the rockbox code and validate a wps with it. Can i also ask what you test is?
02:11:09cendresChronon: thanks
02:11:19cendresi dunno how that became reset
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02:11:49Chronon:)
02:11:56ChrononGood to hear that's all it was.
02:12:46atmisheredavids1:yes... i would,if i had one, ;) i can't get any...:(
02:13:11DerPapstatmishere: you don't have a test. just the interview
02:14:45DerPapstatmishere: but if you want to show something how about some c code that makes android put out some sounds (a sine wave or something similar :-P)?
02:14:46DavidS1atmishere: what did project did you apply for?
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02:15:18*DavidS1 thinks he can decipher that from the previous statement
02:15:26DerPapst:-)
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02:15:57atmisherederPapst:I can't get you..Could you be more clear.Google makes it just mentors and student not a community.....so.....But it should be like that..;)
02:17:52atmishereDavidSG:I can say it in simple words that,"To port RockBox to Android,new open source mobile OS by Google"
02:18:26*DavidSG thinks his guess was correct.
02:19:10DerPapstatmishere: I said if you want a test you could try to write a small C program that runs in Android and makes noises e.g. a sine wave. Sound is the most important bit in rockbox.
02:19:28DavidSGcool, sounds like fun
02:20:01scorche|shDerPapst: that is a good idea
02:22:02DerPapstanyways... time for some sleep :-)
02:22:12DerPapstGood night all :-)
02:22:23DavidSGdoesn't android applications require java doesn't that also mean that a port to android could easily be modified to a pc port as well?
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02:24:24atmishereAfter doing it where should I show it???
02:24:27*DavidSG deletes first doesn't
02:25:39scorche|shatmishere: you can put a patch in a comment
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02:27:39atmisherescorchet|sh:It's 5 am here and I must sleep atleast now otherwise...bye all...
02:27:45atmisherebye
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02:29:26DavidSGWhat time zones are most of the developers here in?
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02:30:13scorche|shmost are around UTC
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02:31:15DavidSGok, so it not that big of a gap
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02:41:36BrendanWSo I go and open up my iPod and unplug the battery, plug it in, and it works!
02:41:49BrendanWThen I shut off rockbox. Same issue. Won't boot again.
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02:44:21Bensawsomeneone here?
02:44:34cool_walking_Yes, just ask your question.
02:44:38Bensawsomethanks
02:45:02Bensawsomewere do i put the doom folder for rockdoom?
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02:45:24BrendanWWhere did you download rockdoom from/
02:45:27Bensawsomeerr actually where do i put the .wad files?
02:45:56BrendanWYou should get a .zip file with a .rockbox folder, simply drop that into the same folder .rockbox is already in and select Yes to All to add the files to there proper locations.
02:46:17Bensawsomeit came with rockbox....
02:46:31Bensawsomei just took it out one day to back it up and cant remeber where it went
02:46:36BrendanWThe doom .wad doesn't come with Rockbox.
02:46:41Bensawsomei know
02:46:46cool_walking_BrendanW: Are you possibly talking about this? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=16305.0
02:47:02Bensawsomei bought them myself i just want to know what path to put the .wad files in
02:47:18BrendanW.rockbox\doom\addons
02:47:23Bensawsomethanks
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02:47:40BrendanWErr, no. Thats not right.
02:47:53BrendanWIt's just .rockbox\doom\
02:47:58Bensawsomeo
02:47:59Bensawsomekk
02:48:01Bensawsomecool
02:48:02Bensawsomethanks
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02:50:30Bensawsomeo and also
02:50:40Bensawsomeif u wanted to instrall a new version of rockbox
02:50:49Bensawsomedo u just overwrite the old files?
02:52:13cool_walking_yes
02:52:45Bensawsomealriiiight
02:52:50Bensawsomegigady gigacdty gooo
02:52:51Bensawsomelol
02:52:53Bensawsomethanks guys
02:53:45Bensawsomei LOVE rockbox
02:53:50cool_walking_Bensawsome: This stuff is in the manual: http://rockbox.org/manual.shtml
02:53:57Bensawsomeya i know
02:54:05Bensawsomebut i thought it was easier to ask u guys
02:54:24Bensawsomeu give much better answers and the answers r much easier to find ;)
02:54:45cool_walking_If there's something wrong with the wording in the manual, we'd appreciate it if you told us about that, instead.
02:55:09Bensawsomeok
02:55:17Bensawsomethanks thought everyone
02:55:22Bensawsomethough
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02:55:36cool_walking_no worries
02:57:20BrendanWcool_walking_:Thanks for the link. It seems to be my issue.
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03:00
03:01:23BrendanWWhen I opened my iPod to unplug and replug the battery in, I mucked up the screen a bit. :/
03:03:15saratoga2that c interface on andriod looks quite promising
03:03:29saratoga2IIRC the calling conventions in java are well documented
03:03:32Bensawsomewait wont windows overwrited the old preference files and themes when i just install new version by overwriting it?
03:03:35saratoga2and i doubt google changed them
03:03:48saratoga2so wrapping around andriod API calls is probably possible
03:04:43Bensawsomewait wont windows overwrited the old preference files and themes when i just install new version by overwriting it?r
03:04:44Bensawsome\
03:04:46Bensawsomey
03:05:28LloreanBensawsome: Please don't repeat questions in such a short period of time
03:05:46Bensawsomesry
03:05:55LloreanBensawsome: Also, please try to use real English, as per the guidelines.
03:06:17LloreanThe only files that will be overwritten are the Rockbox files. Any themes you added, and any config changes you made, will be preserved.
03:06:32Bensawsomewhat u mean use english.... I am
03:06:40Llorean"u" and "sry" are not real words.
03:06:50LloreanThe guidelines are fairly clear on this.
03:06:50Bensawsome......................
03:06:58LloreanDid you read the guidelines?
03:07:03Bensawsomeya
03:07:08 Quit ol_schoola ()
03:07:11LloreanThen why aren't you following them?
03:07:17Bensawsomeits just I automatically type like that
03:07:25Bensawsomesorry
03:07:30Bensawsome:d
03:08:04Bensawsomei am a gamer and I usually have a limited amount of time to write a message
03:08:09Bensawsomeso....
03:08:41LloreanWell here you can take your time, and the channel guidelines are quite clear.
03:09:04Bensawsomeok
03:09:23Bensawsomeactually sometimes i even write like that when im writing a paper for school
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03:10:06mathieu_hello
03:10:16mathieu_someone here ?
03:10:24krazykitmathieu_, yes, many people are here
03:10:24Lloreanmathieu_: Many people are..
03:10:37mathieu_ok sorry... im noob with irc
03:12:55mathieu_i don't know if it's the right place to ask that, but i need help to understand how PluginMpegplayer works for Rockbox
03:13:15LloreanYou'll probably need to be more specific than that
03:15:38Bensawsomedo u mean how do you start playing the movie?
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03:15:56LloreanBensawsome: "u"
03:16:04BensawsomeDARNIT
03:16:07LloreanSeriously, stop and read over a line before hitting enter if you have to.
03:16:31mathieu_i converted some videos using the how-to in the wik,i, but the result is quite ugly : a 200 kbps mpeg-2 video encoded using ffmpeg lags more than the Elephant Dreams test file (whose bitrate is near 700 kbps). am i missing something ? has it something to do with the converter ?
03:17:04Lloreanmathieu_: What player, what frame rate, what audio bitrate, what encoder?
03:20:01mathieu_i use yesterday's build on my iPod 5.5G and i converted the files using ffmeg, 320x180 or 320x240 (depending on the ratio), encoded into mpeg-2, 200kbps for video bitrate, 192kbps for audio bitrate, 2 audio channels, 44100Hz, mp3
03:20:19LloreanWhat frame rate?
03:20:56mathieu_i don't know how to set that... i think the default is 29.97 fps
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03:20:59Llorean200kbps is pretty low for video bit rate, but your problem is most likely your frame rate. The iPod video can't sustain a full 30fps by any stretch, and you'll need to pick a lower one.
03:22:15mathieu_ok ; do you know what would be an ideal frame rate ?
03:22:17LloreanI would suggest trying 15 for full screen, and 20 or 24 for widescreen.
03:24:36mathieu_one last thing : what is the command-line parameter for ffmpeg in order to limit the frame rate ($ ffmpeg −−help prints a lot of text, so it's hard to know what to do) ?
03:25:04LloreanI don't remember it. And that's not our software anyway. I'd suggest just reading the help or its manual
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03:25:54mathieu_anyway, thank you very much !
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03:41:12webguest043G30GbHello, I'm having a problem trying to start out with Rockbox (iPod/Mac)... anyone?
03:41:35*JdGordon|uni fails to see a question there
03:41:50davendon't ask to ask, ask!
03:42:36webguest043G30Gbhttp://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipod3g/rockbox-buildch2.html
03:42:37webguest043G30Gbsorry... new to all this IRC stuff... this page:
03:43:22webguest043G30Gbdoesn't have a file listed for the 3G 30Gig iPod
03:43:35webguest043G30Gboops.. that was the wrong page
03:44:05webguest043G30GbI'm trying to convert from HFS to FAT32 and the instructions contain links for all iPod sizes but mine
03:44:09webguest043G30Gbwhat do I do?
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03:44:56webguest043G30Gbhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodConversionToFAT32#b_Download_the_partition_table_f
03:45:06webguest043G30Gbthat is the correct page I'm referring to
03:47:37webguest043G30Gbis this the correct place for that kind of queston?
03:47:57krazykitwebguest043G30Gb, it is the correct place. please have patience.
03:51:17saratoga2i think if theres no partition table for your ipod, you may need to use itunes on a PC to restore it
03:51:25saratoga2at least thats the easiest way
03:52:40lostlogicHmm... I'm starting to think that the reason that I have trouble with the USB stack on my 5g might be more to do with my usage behavior than with my hardware/software.
03:52:57lostlogicI often plug in... wait long enough for disk to spin down, then mount, then try to do something
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03:59:41webguest043G30GbThanks for the suggestion. I guess I'll have to wait until another day. I don't have firewire on my only Windows box and I don't have USB for my 3G iPod. It would seem that I'm stuck for the time being.
04:00
04:01:49webguest043G30GbI'll keep an eye on this channel for a half hour or so in case someone else has a solution.
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04:32:51webguest043G30GbI was looking for a file titled "30GB 3rd Gen" from http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodConversionToFAT32 which is NOT currently posted. Then I got bumped off the channel. Has there been a solution posted that I missed?
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04:33:33krazykitwebguest043G30Gb, there are public logs you can read through on the website.
04:36:35webguest043G30GbI found the log (live feed) thanks for your patience with the newbies.
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04:39:39webguest043G30GbLogging out of the web interface... Will be watching the live feed. Thanks all!
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05:00
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07:05:43lymecasomething happened to my 5th gen 80GB I had Rockbox on
07:05:50lymecathe second partition doesn't work anymore
07:05:54lymecarockbox won't boot
07:06:19lymecaWhen I try and mount it in disk mode: mount: /dev/sdc2: can't read superbloc
07:06:40lymecaand when I try and run fdisk on it:
07:06:41lymeca"Error: Unable to open /dev/sdc - unrecognised disk label."
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07:36:44Nico_PjhMikeS: ping
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07:44:30*jhMikeS hears a noise
07:45:42Nico_Phi :)
07:45:59Nico_PI started moving get_metadata to the buffering thread yesterday
07:46:28jhMikeSany better?
07:47:05Nico_PI couldn't really say tbh
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07:47:16Nico_PI have the object hack enabled
07:47:55Nico_Palso it does things pretty much exactly like before, except for where get_metadata happens. I plan on making bigger changes today
07:48:12jhMikeSNo difference in inital fill speed?
07:48:28Nico_PI haven't timed but it might be faster in the initial phase
07:49:25Nico_Pwhat I have in mind is to use an event to notify the audio thread when metadata is loaded. that event would instruct the audio thread to finish loading the track
07:49:45jhMikeSThat's where the trouble is I thought. Horscht reported that sans hack it still buffered roughtly the same time as with but only the initial and dir skips had trouble.
07:50:10Nico_PI agree. I think I might disable the hack for testing
07:51:10jhMikeSBut we still have to answer the question as to why the 5.5g 30GB I was using never had a lick of trouble without the hack and with large sectors forced. :)
07:51:10Nico_Pwith the event, the audio thread would just call bufopen() on the ID3 data, and then wait for the event before it starts loading the codec and the audio
07:52:17jhMikeSthen codecs don't need to loop waiting for taginfo_ready, eh?
07:53:14Nico_Pwhy not? taginfo_ready would be set to true at the end of the second loading stage
07:53:45stripwaxHas there been any progress on sleep (suspend?) power on pp targets?
07:54:00jhMikeSI thought ID3 data would be ready before the codec and audio were loaded.
07:55:13jhMikeSbtw, you mean event as in callback not struct event right?
07:56:32Nico_Pyes, ID3 data will be ready. the thing is that in the current code, taginfo_ready is set to true quite late. but thinking about it, yeah the codec won't spend time waiting
07:56:46Nico_Pyou mean struct event like in event.c?
07:58:26Nico_PI wasn't sure about the best way
08:00
08:02:23jhMikeSsend_event vs. kernel events
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08:03:00Nico_Pyes, I found the kernel event struct ;) I was thinking of send_event
08:04:22Nico_Pdo you think my idea could work?
08:06:36jhMikeSsure, using the state machine to track what's expected next it could be very simple and robust.
08:08:38Nico_PI hope so :)
08:09:30Nico_PI think it should take some strain off the audio thread and the disk at playback start
08:12:20*Nico_P leaves for school... the coding will wait til this afternoon
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08:28:16webguest043G30GbI was able to borrow a USB cable from a friend and get my 3G 30Gb iPod converted to FAT32. Thanks for the suggestions. Used 'rbutil'. Now I'm having trouble with a "Can't load rockbox.ipod: File not found" error.
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08:29:34JdGordon|unidid you install the main build?
08:29:42JdGordon|unior unzip rockbox.zip?
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08:31:23webguest043G30GbI downloaded "rbutilqt-1.0.3.dmg" which mounted to my Mac desktop and installed from there.
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08:37:34JdGordon|uniif your missing rockbox.ipod you didnt finish the install
08:37:44JdGordon|unithere are 2 install buttons (iirc)
08:37:50JdGordon|uniinstall bootloader and install rockbox
08:37:54JdGordon|unior something like that
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08:44:08ChrononAre there issues with building the sim right now? I'm seeing some strangeness with a Gigabeat F sim on linux.
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08:44:58JdGordon|unishouldnt be... what stranegness?
08:45:32Chrononone sec...
08:46:58ChrononNevermind. ... I forgot to "make install". :p
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08:47:17JdGordon|uni:)
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09:05:48webguest043G30GbI just completely repeated the install process. "Restore" on the Windows box (for FAT32) and name the Ipod. Reboot Ipod into disk mode and install everything offered in the "rbutilqt-1.0.3.dmg" software for Mac. Still no dice - "Can't load rockbox.ipod: File not found" error. Incidently, I can see that the file is there from a terminal window −− /Volumes/Ipod/.rockbox/rockbox.ipod. What next?
09:07:05webguest043G30GbI guess I could try installing it from the windows machine −− it's just physically more difficult to access at this time.
09:08:12LinusNinteresting
09:09:19*Bagderr announces a winner in the competition "most annoying input device use in any DAP Bagder owns"
09:09:22Bagderrand the winner is...
09:09:28BagderrMeizu M6!
09:10:24peturLinusN: did you see that comment of PaulJam last night?
09:10:31BigBambiwebguest043G30Gb: Did you use complete install?
09:10:38*LinusN searches the log
09:11:03petur22:00
09:11:12BigBambiwebguest043G30Gb: If I remember correctly, that was broken on earlier versions of RBUtil - go to the second tab and use the install build button
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09:13:46*petur hates MR more and more....
09:14:15LinusNpetur: interesting
09:14:41peturI agree it seemed to be a modded bootloader, but the crash is about the same
09:14:46LinusNBagderr: what about the m6?
09:15:00Bagderrit has some kind of touch slider thing
09:15:18Bagderrused to move up/down in lists and for volume etc
09:15:46webguest043G30GbBigBambi: Yes, complete install was the first option I tried. When that didn't work, I went to the second tab and used "install Rockbox". Now I'm going to try second tab "Install Bootloader"... I dunno?
09:15:52Bagderrit's next to impossible to just get to the right position in a first attempt
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09:16:03BagderrI keep having to move up and down and try to stop at the right menu item etc
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09:17:09BigBambiwebguest043G30Gb: You need both options on the second tab, but seeing as the bootloader is saying can't find rockbox.ipod, the bootloader install was succesful but insalling the build wasn't. If it is still an issue, you can do the manual install as described in the manual
09:17:30Bagderri figure other touch slider devices can be as annoying but I'm not used to these things
09:17:38webguest043G30GbIt says that bootloader is already installed and up to date. Could it be a permissions problem? I found a similar thread in on of the forums
09:17:59*Llorean thinks the best input method is still "an up button, and a down button"
09:18:08Bagderrindeed
09:18:36Bagderrhowever, these new kinds of super-small devices probably have to attempt other means
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09:19:18*petur hates the slider pad of the H10, certainly when trying to write a decent driver for it...
09:19:22webguest043G30GbOkay, looking at instructions for manual install
09:19:25Bagderror perhaps they just want "innovative" new things
09:19:34BigBambiwebguest043G30Gb: Sorry, I have to go - you could check out how to manually install a build from the manual - it involves unzipping a zip to the root of your ipod, but beware that the folder produced must be .rockbox - some Mac unzipping tools seem to like to strip the leading full stop
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09:21:24LloreanBagderr: I assume it's attempting to compete with the "innovation" of the iPod wheel. Buttons can be pretty small and still usable.
09:21:52Bagderryeah, and this thing has buttons as well, the slider is just an additional feature
09:22:15peturLinusN: do we still require the hub/pc setting in the h300 OF to get usb charging?
09:22:55LinusNhmmmm, i don't remember
09:25:06Bagderrbut I should also say that the M6 has the sexiest bootup
09:25:42Bagderrthere's just a white text popping up saying "loading"
09:26:31Bagderrfor a few secs of course, then the whole firmware thing shows
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09:29:35amiconnThe bitmapstrippifying of the included themes roughly halved the build unzip times on Ondio :)
09:29:50Bagderr!
09:31:24amiconnAnd it saves several megabytes of diskspace (on all targets; how much depends on cluster size)
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09:37:08markunBagderr: I find the booting of the M6 quite annoying. You don't really know how long to press the play button and it boots after releasing the button.
09:37:45Bagderrnow that's silly, but I like the lcd remaining pitch black except for that little text
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09:42:04webguest043G30Gbmanual install complete...no dice.
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09:45:41PaulJamwebguest043G30Gb: this is unlikely, but do you have more than one FAT32 partition on your ipod?
09:47:03webguest043G30GbI don't know how to check but I don't recall adding partitions
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09:48:00PaulJamoh, i just saw that you restored with itunes, so that can't be the issue.
09:49:56webguest043G30GbI mentioned earlier that I thought it might be permissions (from a post I saw). This doesn't seem to be the case since I just chmod(ed) -R 777 .rockbox and I still get the same error. Things that make you go "Hmmmm..."
09:49:58peturBagderr: any reason we don't do the same in our bootloader? That blue is sooo last century ;)
09:50:25BagderrI'd like to see that!
09:54:24PaulJamwebguest043G30Gb: did you unmount (or whatever you do on a mac) your ipod before disconnecting?
09:56:25webguest043G30Gbyes, I ejected it. Earlier, I was using rbutilqt-1.0.3.dmg because rbutilqt-m1.0.4.dmg wouldn't run on my computer. Is the newer version only for Intel Macs?
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10:00
10:04:13webguest043G30GbI tried reinsalling while ensuring that Itunes was closed. No change. It would also appear that re-installing while standing on my head is of no noticable benefit :)
10:04:40Bagderrwebguest043G30Gb: did you try sacrificing any goats at midnight?
10:05:20webguest043G30GbOh... I missed that deadline. Do I have to wait until tonight?
10:11:05webguest043G30GbEvery time I try searching the forums for rockbox.ipod, I get a database error. Maybe I should cash it in for the morning...
10:11:25Bagderrthe forum search is a sorry mess
10:11:47Bagderrhopefully soon to be in a better shape
10:12:44webguest043G30GbThat's encouraging (that it is a mess). I was beginning to wonder if I was a COMPLETE idiot.
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10:18:30PaulJamwebguest043G30Gb: you could use googles site search function. 'site:forums.rockbox.org "rockbox ipod"'
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10:24:49mrkikoHi all!
10:24:57mrkikoI'm searching for some device which is able
10:25:00mrkikoto record
10:25:09mrkikothe disk noise correctly. I'll find one, probably.
10:25:37mrkikoI have a question: why does now rockbox start playing the song only when it has finished filling it's buffer?
10:26:03mrkikoThat's not a big problem but I would like to know why you've choosen this behaviour.
10:27:12pondlifemrkiko: It doesn't wait
10:27:14PaulJamon my h300 playback starts almost immediately
10:27:25mrkikook
10:27:33pondlifeIt starts buffering, and plays as soon as it can
10:27:48pondlifeMaybe if the first track is very long?
10:28:01mrkikoOk - so it may be a "local" problem
10:28:08mrkikoYES
10:28:12pondlifeWhat music format, and what tag type?
10:28:14mrkiko... very long...
10:28:26mrkikomp3
10:28:31mrkikoID3V2
10:28:49pondlifeIf the metadata is at the end of the file, it will need to read them before it can play.
10:28:53mrkikoI saw happyly that creative zen
10:28:55mrkikois supported now
10:29:00mrkikoat least very basically
10:29:10pondlifeNot yet supported, just in progress
10:29:11 Quit krz (Nick collision from services.)
10:29:13Bagderrnot "supported" quite yet
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10:29:43mrkikoSo it actually boots only...
10:29:57pondlifeWell, there's no audio...
10:30:09Bagderrwho needs audio?
10:30:09mrkiko:)
10:30:16mrkiko:)
10:30:19pondlifeLadies and Gentlemen need audio :)
10:30:29Bagderrhahah, indeed!
10:30:30mrkikoSo I don't...
10:32:16pondlifemrkiko: ID3v2 shouldn't be a problem (unlike v1)... how long is this track? Bigger than the buffer?
10:32:26pondlifei.e. how many MB?
10:33:44pondlifeAh, apparently ID3v2.4 allows for tags at the end of the file :/
10:37:01zeisn't all id3v2 at the end of the file? wasn't that one of the major changes from v1?
10:37:14zeor have i got it backwards...
10:37:27Bagderrze: backwards
10:37:34Bagderrv1 was at the end
10:37:35zeah
10:37:46zeok, right, sorry, nm
10:37:51pondlifeID3v2 is normally at the start, but v2.4 allows both...
10:38:20Bagderrwe should send off the pitchfork team to the id3v2.4 authors
10:38:23pondlifeSo, even if you're using ID3v2, you might potentially have tags at the end
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10:46:58mrkikogood
10:46:58mrkikogood
10:46:59mrkiko:)
10:47:08mrkikothe track is actually 21mb
10:47:11mrkikothe buffer is 28.8
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10:54:28webguest043G30GbI'm done for the time being. 7 hours is all I can spare right now trouble shooting this problem. Thanks all for the help.
10:55:24pondlifemrkiko: I just tried with a 21MB file and it definitely starts playing before it's completed buffering
10:55:39pondlifeMake sure you're using ID3v2.3, perhaps?
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10:59:18mrkikomhm...
10:59:22mrkikoI can't determine it right now...
11:00
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11:16:58topppykkk
11:17:21topppyany one?
11:17:39peturgot a question?
11:20:49Bagderrquestions are sooo 90s
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11:39:47pondlifeIs the pcf50606.c that shotofadds added any use for H300 RTC support?
11:40:17pondlifeI'd like to resurrect that if I'm playing with bootloaders..
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12:05:09JdGordondoes 9 touch "button/ares" on the touchpad targets sound like too many?
12:05:19JdGordonis the d2 screen even large enough for that many?
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12:08:38markunJdGordon: 9 sounds like a good number to me. Do you prefer 4 or 5?
12:09:25JdGordonI dont prefer any, its just I was thinking about it and 5 sounds like an awkward number, and the mr50 screen is huge so 9 would fit well
12:13:37kraizeecan anyone tell, does a gsoc task to create a GUI for checking wps means GUI for all targets in one application, or one app - one target?
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12:15:57JdGordonkrz: ideally the code should allow for any target screen
12:17:08krzJdGordon: so, can i make a wrapper for console checkwps?
12:17:20krzGUI wrapper
12:17:50gevaertskrz: depends on what you mean by wrapper.
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12:18:32krzgevaerts: this means, that GUI application will execute console checkwps as a process
12:19:26krzand if a clearly understood the code - checkwps works only for one specified target?
12:19:38krz*if i
12:20:23gevaertskrz: we would prefer if it actually called the checking functions directly
12:21:32krzgevaerts: surely, i undestand. and what about checkwps, am i right, does it need to specify target?
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12:22:10gevaertskrz: I'm not 100% sure, but I think that's correct.
12:22:26Nico_Pkrz: yes, checkwps has become target-specific recently
12:22:52gevaertskrz: I think that if you support a single target we're happy, but of course if you can support more, we're happier
12:24:18*gevaerts decides to leave further answering to Nico_P, since he knows wps things
12:24:28krzgevaerts; so the wrapper can take lots of checkwps's =) but this doesn't solve the problen to call funcs directly
12:24:48Nico_Pkrz: the wps checking functions should be compiled in your application
12:25:00Nico_Pconsider checkwps a usage exmple
12:25:45gevaertskrz: that's true, but the goal of this task is more to see if you can handle what we see as the basics for a WPS editor, and less to get a great flashy new tool :)
12:26:35 Quit PaulJam (".")
12:26:42krzthanks all! averything seems a bit clear now =)
12:26:56gevaertskrz: so we will probably be more impressed by a tool that handles one target cleanly and just does the basics than by a tool that does a lot in a hackish way
12:27:26krzhmm)) i undestood =)
12:28:37*gevaerts points to the usual quality versus quantity discussions
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12:35:28JdGordonBagderr: are you interested in the touchpad driver? or not yet up to fiddling with the d2?
12:42:57preglowJdGordon: you doing d2 as well?
12:44:07JdGordonno
12:44:51JdGordonim still hoping the mr500 port gets finished :p
12:49:06preglowwouldn't hurt :
12:49:07preglow>
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12:52:44BagderrJdGordon: I'm interested but no, I haven't yet had the opportunity to poke on it for real
12:54:06JdGordonyou think the screen is big enough to easily fit 9 buttons?
12:54:18Bagderrindeed
12:55:38JdGordonok, once I get this working reliably ill chuck it on flyspray so you can look at it
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13:00
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13:07:50*JdGordon has no bloody idea why this stupid thing isnt working when it should be bloody simple :'(
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13:13:48JdGordonAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGG!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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13:47:20*pondlife looks forward to a thorough list of bad things about Rockbox... or even a through one.
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13:51:09pondlifeAny German-speakers able to help with for http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8769 ? (I understand "darf ich auf deutsch schreiben?", but the original bug report isn't very clear.)
13:51:23pondlifes/for//
13:51:32markunpondlife: I'll check
13:53:23peturI think he's just reporting a bug, the anti-skip he mentions is just his guess
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13:54:03markunpondlife: it looks to me that the music keeps playing at the original position and only jumps to the new position after the whole buffer is emptied.
13:54:25pondlifeI don't understand at what point seeking happens
13:54:37pondlifei.e. is this the resume bug (again)
13:55:08pondlifeOr does seeking mean fast-forward/rewind?
13:55:12n1sto me it sounds like he doesn't expect musik to keep playing while seeking
13:55:16markunpondlife: what else?
13:55:32markunn1s: that could be it
13:56:11pondlifen1s: Music doesn't keep playing while seeking here...
13:56:41Nico_Ppondlife: hi! just so you know, I'm working on two things ATM: audio_check_new_track rewrite and track loading behaviour change
13:57:02pondlifeNico_P: Two at a time? You masochist... :)
13:57:05Nico_Phehe
13:57:15Nico_PjhMikeS made me start the second
13:57:31Nico_Pit's based on making the buffering thread do the metadata loading
13:57:31markunpondlife, n1s: it doesn't continue to play here either..
13:57:59pondlifeNico_P: I'd do one first... whatever helps with the track skipping weirdness preferably!
13:58:00n1smarkun: pondlife, not here either... although I'm pretty sure it used to, didn't it?
13:58:18pondlifeI don't think so... not intentionally at least
13:58:41Nico_Ppondlife: I'm giving priority to the buffering one
13:59:23pondlifeI'm not sure buffering should care so much about things like metadata....
13:59:42pondlifeOf course, it can be called by something that does care.
14:00
14:00:22Nico_Pit's just that bufopen can be called with TYPE_ID3 and buffer_handle will call get_metadata... doesn't change much in buffering.c
14:00:37Nico_Pmost of the changes will be in playback.c
14:00:40jhMikeSNico_P: just an idea here. could try without the hack and having mem be 32MB?
14:00:55pondlifeI knew that bufopen() type parameter was a bad idea ;p
14:02:39Nico_PjhMikeS: I will, but right now I'm leaving
14:03:20Nico_PI'll be back either very soon or later this afternoon
14:03:29jhMikeSah, okie. no rush
14:03:29preglowanyone know how much ram the d2 has?
14:03:56*jhMikeS points preglow to the wiki :p
14:04:26preglowcan't find the figure there :/
14:05:02jhMikeSmust be so much it's not important then
14:06:28preglow32 megs, it might be
14:07:08n1s2M x 32Bit x 4 Banks Mobile SDRAM in 90FBGA
14:07:16n1sso yeah 32 megs
14:08:49preglowwould that also imply a 32 bit data bus?
14:08:51preglowwould be sweet
14:09:02preglowdon't portalplayer targets use 16 bit data buses?
14:10:12gatestoneIf I get rockbox to my iPod Color, which software should I run on my Windows box, certainly not iTunes? Can I export my iTunes library, playlist etc to something that works with Rockbox?
14:11:11n1sgatestone: rockbox can play any unencrypted tracks from itunes, playlists i don't know
14:11:23markunJdGordon: I have no idea what this guy is talking about, do you? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10164.msg121867#msg121867
14:11:57gatestoneSo you say iTunes is willing to transfer music to Rockbox? Really?
14:12:13gatestoneI don't want to copy files manally to iPod!!!
14:13:13gatestoneI have 7000 songs, 2000 thousand of them have been rated and listening dates stored, my smert playlist builds on that database...
14:13:21gatestonesmart
14:13:31*petur uses a simple file sync program to copy pc music tree changes to his h380
14:13:51markungatestone: I think with this program you should be able to use itunes with rockbox: http://www.binaryfortress.com/itunes-sync/
14:14:47peturgatestone: if you really need those features with your data preserved, rockbox may not be for you...
14:15:07markungatestone: other people use http://www.mediamonkey.com/ to manage their music, don't know if it imports from itunes
14:15:25 Quit tedrock ()
14:15:26gatestoneThanks markun!!!! That sounds excellent, for several disfferent uses...
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14:18:58markungatestone: when I gave the itunes-sync link to someone in the forums he told me it didn't work, I hope he just did something wrong.
14:19:18gatestoneHmmm... Markun I am afraid that Binary Fortress will not song playing dates back to iTunes, and that makes it uselss for me. The whole idea of my smart playlists is that goos songs are automatically played more often (5 stars means every 2 month...)
14:20:25markungatestone: I don't think rockbox stores those dates anyway, does it?
14:20:34gatestoneCan rockbox rate songs?
14:20:48markunI don't know
14:20:59gatestoneCan it give anyfeedback to the host Jukebox software?
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14:21:16markunthere is no host jukebox software for rockbox
14:21:38gatestoneI mean like MediaMonkey or iTunes+BinaryFortress
14:22:31gatestoneShouldn't there ba a high level standard protocol to communicate with Rockbox and host software? Just transferring files one way is way primitive.
14:22:55moosgatestone: you can rate songs on the fly *under* rockbox ;)
14:23:04 Join ][Solidum90][ [0] (n=fuck@host86-65-dynamic.50-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
14:23:07][Solidum90][hi to al
14:23:09][Solidum90][all*
14:23:30gatestonemoos, what do you mea with "under"?
14:23:44markungatestone: maybe something like this is possible if someone implements the MTP protocol
14:24:06markun][Solidum90][: hi to you
14:24:43markungatestone: do you like programming? :)
14:25:00][Solidum90][I' ve a Creative ZEN
14:25:04moosgatestone: rate a song while playing it... http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DataBase
14:25:17][Solidum90][(with flash memory and SD card reader..)
14:26:47markun][Solidum90][: and now you are going to port rockbox to it?
14:27:14markunwhich Creative ZEN model is this exactly?
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14:28:10gatestoneok, so I just need to export the iTunes database and playlist into the rockbox database. Any tools for that?
14:28:24*jhMikeS actually has a real interrupt-based serial driver more-or-less running on gigabeast now but still some minor quick I'm sure I'll figure out after wasting a ridiculous amount of time.
14:28:50moosw00t \o/ !
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14:30:11][Solidum90][markun: no
14:30:26moosgatestone: sorry, I can't help much about itunes...but rockbox internal database is very capable (even if I don't use it much myself) just check the documentation in our wiki
14:31:01][Solidum90][is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElNnY-RMRO0
14:32:00gatestoneI believe, moos. But I don't want to re-rate 2000 songs, or I don't want to listen the same songs again that I have listened for last 2 moths, ever!!!
14:32:26gatestones/for/in
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14:32:59markungevaerts: delete them from your player :)
14:33:13markunbut seriously, I don't know a solution to your problem
14:34:07gatestoneSo I need to get the iTunes datbase transferred to Rockbox.
14:36:48 Quit ][Solidum90][ ("Vado, Ciao a tutti ;)")
14:37:13moosgatestone: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ConvertiTunesDBtoTagCache ?
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14:37:45gatestonethx moos, that is great!
14:38:13moosyou are welcome
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15:35:40*gevaerts hands markun a better tab completor
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15:46:17JdGordonmarkun: I tihnk he is talking about a gestures based keyboard
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15:50:57mrkikoHi all!
15:53:02JdGordonheres trouble!
15:55:38mrkikoI'm here just to be in-touch with anyone - no rockbox-related things now :)
15:57:11markungevaerts: oops, sorry :)
16:00
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16:21:48deepakhello everyone
16:24:59gevaertshello deepak
16:25:00markunhi deepak!
16:25:28markundeepak: I wrote a comment to your application just a few minutes ago
16:26:27deepakok sir ,and i will check it
16:27:16*dionoea always finds it weird when gsoc applicants use "sir" when talking to mentors :D
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16:32:08markundeepak: yes, please don't call me sir :)
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16:35:17markundeepak: don't you think my suggestion makes more sense since we already have a AC3 codec?
16:35:29markunit would be the fastest route to have 'some' real audio playback
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16:48:24low_lightgevaerts: the usb serial transfers are working on my sa9200 thanks to your suggestions yesterday.
16:49:01gevaertslow_light: great ! So will you have the port ready by the weekend ?
16:49:02low_lightnow I just need to save the memory dumps to a file
16:49:26gevaertsYou could try to implement xmodem ;)
16:49:27low_lightof course ;)
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16:52:21low_lightwell, cu works, but I have a hell of a time activating the escape character ~ more than once per session.
16:55:39gevaertsMaybe use 'script' and just dump all data at once in hex ?
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17:13:54DEEPAKmarkun:i am extremely sorry for the delay.i will definitely think about doing it the way you suggested
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17:16:46*gevaerts wonders why app.lds declares IRAMSIZE as 48k while the sansas all have 128k
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17:26:12low_lightI don't think there are were ever any optimizations for different iram sizes among the pp targets
17:27:01gevaertspp5002 seems to have 96k, and that's the lowest supported PP I could find
17:30:34low_lighti think it originates from cf targets
17:31:32low_lightI seem to recall when the pp targets came there was talk about how to utilize the extra iram, but nothing was done
17:31:55*petur thought iram was divided between app, codec and plugin ?
17:32:54low_lightyou could use it as a usb buffer ;)
17:33:14gevaertslow_light: I'm doing that for testing now
17:33:21low_lightyou could use it as a usb buffer ;)
17:33:21low_lightright, but I don't think the divisions are target dependent
17:33:21*low_light could be wrong
17:33:49*petur is unsure too
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17:35:33BHSPitWorkgevaerts, just what I need right now, more homework ;)
17:35:38BHSPitWorkheh
17:35:48gevaertspetur: that seems to be it. The plugin IRAM starts at 0x4000c000
17:36:02gevaertsBHSPitWork: I'm only the messenger ;)
17:36:58BHSPitWorkgevaerts, it's fine in this context to work with existing code, right? Or is this supposed to be like a comp. sci. assignment? :)
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17:37:54markunDEEPAK: ok, don't worry :) We're a pretty informal group.
17:38:16peturyes sir!
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17:38:58gevaertsBHSPitWork: I would say that re-using existing code is the best way to do this
17:39:21BHSPitWorkgevaerts, cool
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17:40:45gevaertsBHSPitWork: re-using is just another way of finding out how to do something. Of course, you should clean things up a bis so we don't find doom-related keybindings in it ;)
17:40:53BHSPitWorkgevaerts, haha
17:41:08BHSPitWorkYeah, press SELECT to exit, and PLAY to fire :P
17:41:39amiconngevaerts: PP5002 and PP5020 have 96KB iram. PP5022 has 128KB
17:41:47BHSPitWorkTime-permitting, I'm tempted to add in an easter egg now
17:41:52BHSPitWork(But I won't :)
17:42:15amiconnapp.lds specifies half of it, because the other half is reserved for codecs+plugins (shared, so a plugin using iram *must* stop playback)
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17:42:59peturwow, I remembered correctly :)
17:43:28amiconnFor coldfire, the iram sizes are defined target dependent (similar issue - MCF5249 has 96KB, MCF5250 has 128KB), but not yet for PP
17:43:54gevaertsamiconn: I found that out by now :) Anyway IRAM isn't the solution. While it definitely improves the situation, there are still problems if there is a hub
17:44:20amiconngevaerts: Btw, the front port issue is not necessarily signal quality
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17:45:04amiconnYesterday I looked up something in my HP PC's BIOS, and found that the front ports can be disabled separately
17:45:22gevaertsWhy would they do that ?
17:45:27amiconnSo I think there's a hub on the mobo - and the front port issue is therefore identical to the hub issue
17:45:49gevaertsThat seems plausible
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18:07:56gevaertsamiconn: you could check if there is a built-in hub by connecting something there and looking in the device manager, in 'Show Connections' mode (or whatever it's called)
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18:26:12lymeca# mount /dev/sdc2 /mnt/ipod
18:26:12lymecamount: /dev/sdc2: can't read superblock
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18:29:24linuxstblymeca: Have you tried restoring it? Instructions for Linux are here - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodManualRestore
18:29:44linuxstbAlso, does the Apple firmware still work OK?
18:30:51lymecalinuxstb: It's a 5th gen 80GB (does that make it 5.5G?)
18:30:57linuxstbYes
18:31:07lymecalinuxstb: I don't know I don't remember how to boot up into the apple firmware
18:32:04linuxstbTurn it off, then press MENU to turn it back on, and keep MENU held
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18:36:40*linuxstb goes home
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18:41:02krzgevaerts: hi, the question about gui for checkwps. i've found the way to have all targets in one app using the code. now the question is - do we need the output that is equal to checkwps output?
18:41:06krzgevaerts: hi, the question about gui for checkwps. i've found the way to have all targets in one app using the code. now the question is - do we need the output that is equal to checkwps output?
18:41:47krzsorry for repetition
18:42:14scorche|shhe isnt here...
18:43:22domonokykrz, this task is to see if you are capable of working on your gsoc project, so i dont think it needs every detail of checkwps.. but it has to show, that you can code ..:-)
18:44:11domonokyso the simplest thing would be a textbox with the output of check wps.. but there could be better ways .. :-)
18:44:29krzoh, i almost have it =)
18:45:21domonokyremember that you are competing against 3 other students.. :-)
18:45:44krzok, i'll try to do my best =)
18:46:23Nico_Pkrz: the output need not be the same as checkwps, but it should be as helpful as possible to a WPS creator
18:46:42*domonoky notes, that he is a potential mentor for the WPS/Theme editor.. :-)
18:47:05Nico_Pdomonoky: I'd be willing to co-mentor
18:47:44domonokyNico_P: that would be good, then we have both world (rockbox core, and PC Gui) covered..
18:49:58Nico_Pexactly
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19:32:24BlueNinjaHey guys.
19:32:50BlueNinjaHas here been any developments with the Sansa v2?
19:32:55BlueNinjathere*
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19:37:47*linuxstb wonders how krz has combined all targets for checkwps into one app
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19:38:17scorche|shBlueNinja: any progress will likely be posted in the forum thread
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19:59:32amiconngevaerts: I don't know of any device manager on linux....
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20:01:07gevaertsamiconn: in that case lsusb -t can probably help, or the dmesg output
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20:03:51gevaertse.g. 'usb 5-4' means bus 5, root port 4. 'usb 5-1.6.3' means bus 5, root port 1, hub port 6, hub port 3
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20:36:10linuxstbgevaerts: How much IRAM does USB need?
20:36:55gevaertsStorage now uses 32k (which could be taken from the plugin/codec area, plus a few k elsewhere (there's this 2k aligned array...).
20:37:27gevaertsI increased IRAM with those 32k for my tests
20:38:13gevaertsBut while this seems to be clean on c200 without a hub, I haven't tried other combinations yet
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20:47:19[TiZ]Hi there. Viewports WERE committed into SVN, right?
20:47:31PaulJam[TiZ]: yes
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20:48:11[TiZ]That's what I thought. There must be some bug in my WPS then; I'm using a recent sim and it's reverting to the default theme.
20:48:47linuxstbHow recent?
20:49:02PaulJamyou can look at the console output. there should be mentioned where it fails
20:49:19[TiZ]From today.
20:49:27linuxstbDon't you need to add "−−debugwps" (or similar)?
20:50:15[TiZ]As a command line switch for the simulator?
20:50:18 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:50:25linuxstbYes
20:50:27PaulJamwith -debugwps the output is more verbose, but the line where it fails is mentioned in the normal sim too.
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20:51:45[TiZ]I remember hearing that the WPS checker was broken because of Viewports.
20:52:23linuxstbYou mean checkwps?
20:52:31[TiZ]Yeah.
20:52:36linuxstbThat's fixed now.
20:52:42[TiZ]Oh, cool.
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20:54:21[TiZ]Well, I'm not seeing a console window anywhere... And there's not any file that looks like any kind of log.
20:55:23PaulJamdo you use the uisimulator for windows?
20:56:45[TiZ]Yeah
20:57:09PaulJamthat has no console output unfortunately
20:57:16[TiZ]Aw, drat. :(
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20:58:55PaulJamcould you post the wpscode somewhere? pastebin or something like that.
20:59:11gevaerts10GB copied without a single reset, but it's still horrible behind a hub.
20:59:18*gevaerts gets out a USB tracer
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20:59:33[TiZ]Yeah, I'll post it up. Hold on for a bit.
21:00
21:00:19amiconnPaulJam: The windows sim usually *does* have a console
21:00:29amiconnJust the crosscompiled ones don't
21:01:30[TiZ]Okay, here it is. Beware, I used a few bad coding habits
21:01:30linuxstbamiconn: How do you build the windows sim? Cygwin?
21:01:31PaulJamyou mean under cygwin?
21:01:32[TiZ]http://pastebin.com/m383526a1
21:01:38amiconnyes
21:01:38 Quit XavierGr ()
21:02:11PaulJami thought this counts as linux uisim.
21:02:18[TiZ]The worst habit I've made in that was shoving images into a 320x240 viewport.
21:02:18amiconnI think there's some wrong option when crosscompiling, since you both don't get a console *and* get tons of symbol visibility warnings during build
21:02:46amiconnPaulJam: Nope. When compiling a sim under cygwin, the result is a native windows + sdl sim
21:03:23PaulJamok
21:03:34linuxstb[TiZ]: Are all your images there? The WPS parser will now reject WPSs if it can't load all the images.
21:03:45linuxstb(there doesn't seem to be any syntax errors in your WPS)
21:03:52[TiZ]Yes, they're all there.
21:06:17[TiZ]...Oh, wait! I did make a goof-up on that end.
21:06:46pixelmanot that it would explain why you get the default but your viewport declarations seem a little weird (e.g. the last one - I don't think it is supposed to have a width and height of 1)?
21:07:17linuxstb[TiZ]: Here's a Windows version of checkwps for the ipod video - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/checkwps.zip
21:07:30[TiZ]Thanks, linuxstb.
21:08:03[TiZ]pixelma: Yeah, that one's a bad habit.
21:08:21pixelmaand are you also aware that the coordinates are relative to the viewport you have their corresponding %xd in?
21:08:36pixelmaor better: should be
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21:14:51[TiZ]Yeah, I found that out when trying to make my progress bar work back when viewports were only in unofficial builds
21:16:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:17:20[TiZ]Alright, I fixed the missing image, but it's still not working. :/
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21:19:10linuxstbDoes checkwps say it's OK?
21:19:45[TiZ]AUGH. I feel like a tool now. There was a second one that got named incorrectly.
21:20:08[TiZ]Now it's working, but of course, it looks all buggered right now. Time to get fixin'.
21:20:39*Nico_P thinks his new buffering shows promise
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21:26:45mcuelenaerewhat's the size of a halfword on an ARM processor? is it equal to an (unsigned) int?
21:27:14[TiZ]Luckily, the built-in rockbox font is sized similary to snap, so I won't need multifont. *Whew.*
21:29:10domonokymcuelenaere: shouldnt a half-word be 16 bit ?
21:29:38mcuelenaeredomonoky: according to arm.org, it is the same as a short (in C language)
21:29:58domonokyand short int is 16 bit i think..
21:30:03peturyes
21:30:06mcuelenaereso (in ASM) LDR -> word, LDRH -> halfword and LDRB -> byte access right?
21:30:12mcuelenaeredomonoky: indeed
21:30:29*amiconn recommends the fine arm manual
21:30:54domonokymcuelenaere: would make sense, access for 32, 16 and 8 bit..
21:31:16mcuelenaereI wasn't really sure, I just asked to verify :)
21:31:49domonokydont trust me.. :-) use amiconns recommondation to make sure.. :-)
21:32:18zeamiconn: rtfam? :p
21:34:20amiconnBut yes, a halfword is 16 bits in arm terms, and a word is 32 bits
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21:42:12*gevaerts needs to think
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21:43:54pixelmapetur: no problems last year with arriving early because it was a holiday too (at least no-one else was there)
21:44:06peturoh
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21:57:15bertrikgevaerts: how are USB packets received anyway? do we receive them automatically and get an interrupt to read them from an endpoint buffer, or do we have to prepare a receive buffer in advance that is filled by the USB controller?
21:58:08gevaertsbertrik: we tell the controller to expect packets ("priming" in the controller docs), and then it DMAs and sets an interrupt
21:59:12*gevaerts can't remember. Does the device retry a packet if it doesn't get an ACK ?
21:59:48bertrikI think it depends on the controller, but my guess is that this happens automatically
22:00
22:00:06*bertrik should really read up on the USB controller
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22:00:43gevaertsThis one should do it then
22:02:33 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
22:02:35RexDartHeyo, do plugins exist beyond the ones here? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginIndex
22:02:36gevaertsSo the possibilities are : (1) it doesn't fire the interrupt, (2) the status is "failed" for some reason, (3) the USB thread is slow (120ms+), or (4) re-priming the endpoint fails
22:02:52RexDartI was hoping to find a spectrogram / scrolling voiceprint for rockbox
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22:03:53scorche|shRexDart: not really...
22:04:20*gevaerts decides to try a simple fix first, to see what happens
22:04:34bertrikmaybe we the interrupts are cleared incorrectly
22:04:47bertrikis REG_USBSTS clear-on-write?
22:04:51scorche|shRexDart: all plugins that are complete and fit our standards are already included with rockbox...the rest are patches in the tracker and may be in various states of completion
22:05:25gevaertsbertrik: I think it is.
22:05:40RexDartscorche|sh: thanks
22:05:42bertrikthen you should use |= but use simple = instead to clear a bit
22:06:00bertrik(insert 'not' after should)
22:06:00gevaertsbertrik: did I mention that this only goes wrong behind a hub, and never when attached directly
22:06:02RexDartI'll see if I can find them
22:08:31bertrikmaybe the hub has an effect on timing, which somehow causes multiple interrupt bits to be set when the interrupt fires
22:09:28*bertrik looks for the USB controller datasheet
22:09:32*petur should never have put the 'or mail me your results' in the CFMod wiki page :(
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22:10:29amiconn?
22:11:07gevaertsbertrik: But we shouldn't even get more than one interrupt... There is only one transfer active at a time, and there is only one interrupt per transfer
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22:11:23bertrikgevaerts: looking at the MCIMX31RM datasheet I think we definitely clear the USB status regsiter incorrectly
22:11:24peturamiconn: got another mail with CF results (user too lazy to edit the wiki)
22:11:57gevaertsbertrik: do you have a page number?
22:12:19bertrikpage 32-46
22:12:51bertrik"Software clears certain bits in this register by writing a 1 to them."
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22:13:09amiconngevaerts: There are also sporadic resets when connected to the root hub
22:13:13bertrikdoing |= instead of = clears all bits
22:13:24gevaertsbertrik: I'll try
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22:13:36gevaertsamiconn: not here anymore, with everything in IRAM
22:13:59amiconn?? I thought iram didn't work at all?
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22:14:42gevaertsamiconn: apparently I did something wrong then. I retried today, and it works
22:15:19gevaertsI read more than 10GB without resets
22:16:11davebergokay, I've been drafting a few ideas for creating a theme, and I have a question
22:16:35davebergI'm pretty sure this isn't possible, but I thought I'd check here to be positive
22:17:35davebergis it possible to have the background act as the progress bar?
22:18:10LloreanNo.
22:18:41davebergI would imagine it'd crush the processor anyway
22:19:00davebergbut I'm looking to create something outlandish that's never been done before
22:19:10[TiZ]Okay, having a little problem. The way I conditionally handled Album Art is now broken.
22:19:45davebergmaybe something that's not necessarily practical, but demonstrates the possibilities of what could be done
22:19:52[TiZ]As in, when album art appears, you can see the other viewport over it.
22:20:06[TiZ]Can you put viewports in conditionals yet?
22:20:16davebergnope
22:20:21[TiZ]Blast!
22:21:00PaulJam[TiZ]: you should use a single viewport and work with the %m tags. overlapping viewports can produce unexpected results.
22:21:17davebergyeah, viewports shouldn't overlap
22:21:26[TiZ]Viewports aren't overlapping.
22:21:31PaulJamthe %m tags can be used in a conditional.
22:21:41disorganizerand overlapping viewports were not allowed from the very beginning of viewportification
22:21:45[TiZ]The album art and info are stacked vertically.
22:22:25davebergare you trying to make it so that if there's no cover art present, the song info moves up?
22:22:32[TiZ]Yeah
22:22:42[TiZ]It worked in the unofficial builds.
22:23:03davebergI think the best way to do that is to put the song info in the album art viewport in the case when art isn't present
22:23:12bughunter2mcuelenaere: hey :)
22:23:32davebergand turn it off in the song info viewport
22:23:43mcuelenaerebughunter2: hi :)
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22:23:49davebergdepends on how big your album art is, I suppose
22:23:53mcuelenaerehow's the Zen V port going? ;)
22:24:04[TiZ]Oh, I see
22:24:16bughunter2mcuelenaere: bad, haven't been able to do much and i was a bit demotivated because i didn't really have a feeling i could find the information i was looking for
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22:25:03gevaertsbertrik: that doesn't seem to have changed anything. I'll add some debugging output later. I have some RL first
22:26:02mcuelenaeregevaerts: while initing the usb chip, should endpoint 0 (tx,rx) be set up and if so in which mode (bulk, interrupt or iso)?
22:26:30bertrikep 0 is always control EP AFAIK
22:26:34daveberghey disorganizer, I have a question about overlapping viewports. If I have one viewport for a progress bar, and another that surrounds it for the song times, is that considered overlapping?
22:26:38gevaertsmcuelenaere: endpoint 0 should always be setup for control
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22:27:01mcuelenaerebut it is possible to use it for non-control?
22:27:10Lloreandaveberg: If the coordinates of one viewport lie within another one, they're overlapping.
22:27:14*mcuelenaere got a feeling he knows what's wrong in the usb driver..
22:27:16disorganizerdaveberg: i dont think we have surrounding viewports, so they overlap
22:27:33bertrikmcuelenaere: I don't think so
22:27:41PaulJamdaveberg: why would you want to put the progressbar into its own viewport?
22:27:42gevaertsbertrik: a different USB driver
22:27:53davebergI think that's how I coded the progress bar in my viewport, and it works...
22:27:57disorganizerdaveberg: unless you put small viewports with the songtimes "around" a viewport only containing the pb
22:28:03*gevaerts leaves for a bit now
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22:28:53disorganizerdaveberg: so its pure good luck *g* i also used that in a wps, but some day suddenly with a commit it didnt work any more. and that its not supported does not mean its not possible. but the effect is not foreseeable and thus its not supported
22:29:12davebergPaulJam: Not really sure, but it makes the progressbar image call easy to code
22:29:34scorche|shwhoops....insert that comment into -community
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22:30:01disorganizerpauljam: also it may be needed for text fine-positioning of the playtimes etc.
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22:31:51PaulJamdisorganizer: but if you already have a viewport "sourrounding" the progressbar you could as well draw the progressbar inside that viewport (with the coordinates relative to it).
22:32:34disorganizerpauljam: correct :-)
22:32:53davebergsince the progressbar is always updating?
22:33:07davebergoh
22:33:11davebergmisread...
22:33:18bertrikis there a simple way to compile only the core + codecs (and skip the plugins)?
22:33:21 Quit Llorean (Client Quit)
22:33:33[TiZ]Oh, while I'm here... How come album art horizontal alignment still hasn't been fixed?
22:34:02davebergthe progressbar viewport I have is just the bounds on the image I use for the meter
22:37:16davebergI think what's funny is if you put in a wrong number for the width of the progressbar, it will still display, but it will either not fill out all the way (if the number is small) or finish too fast (if the number is big)
22:38:17disorganizerdaveberg: thats working as designed :-) also works with the screen with pb's wider than the screen.
22:38:17davebergI had that problem when the commit to make image coordinates relevant to the viewport was implemented
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22:39:10davebergdisorganizer: yes, but if a pixel of an image is off screen, the WPS breaks
22:39:21disorganizernevertheless, why dont you just put the pb inside the viewport you but "beneath" it?
22:39:24davebergor maybe it's the viewport, not the image
22:39:42[TiZ]I found out the off-image thing trying to adjust the image coordinates relevant to the viewport.
22:40:00disorganizerdaveberg: its the viewport
22:40:16disorganizerbut=put
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22:42:10scorche|shphone
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22:42:39davebergdisorganizer: I probably will in the near future, but the way I designed the WPS was by drawing boxes on a white 240x320 image in GIMP, and the progress bar had its own box...so it got its own viewport without another thought
22:44:00*disorganizer thinks llorean is a bunny with a internet connection because he stayed in -community longer than in here :-)
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22:44:42Massahad anybody time (and mood) to look at FS #8856 ? I miss some (positive ;) ) comments...
22:44:49davebergI uploaded the theme yesterday to the Gigabeat page
22:45:35davebergbut I need to modify the .wps file to make it look a little more "official"
22:46:08davebergso I will probably change the progress bar in the process, and I also want to put it under a CC license
22:47:31PaulJamMassa: i don't really understand the purpose of the patch. why don't you just put the backgroundcolour for the viewport in the backdrop?
22:49:05disorganizer@daveberg: does the theme pass checkwps?
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22:49:54davebergI've never tried using checkwps before, I just looked at the page on the wiki today
22:50:10davebergyou just have to install it and then run the sim, or what
22:51:11MassaPaulJam: you can't switch on or off dynamically parts of the screen (and therefore also change the colour) of the backdrop - but you can with conditionals in viewports...
22:51:46davebergoh wait, I see
22:51:52davebergyou run it from the terminal
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22:52:16davebergwell shoot, I could give it a shot right now
22:53:54daveberghmm
22:53:58davebergthe make command isn't working
22:54:24davebergit's telling me "no rule to make target 'checkwps.c', needed by 'checkwps'
22:54:36davebergdo I need to specify a target to compile for or something?
22:54:53[TiZ]'kay, fixed my album art-viewport conflict without making it look bad. But I'm still curious as to why horizontal alignment left isn't work.
22:55:14davebergthe customwps wiki page doesn't really explain
22:55:29[TiZ]isn't working*
22:55:40davebergTiZ: what happens when you center?
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22:56:41PaulJamMassa: i still don't understand. You cant use viewports in a conditional, so the whole viewport will always have either the backdrop or the bg_pattern as background and not change dynamically.
22:57:54 Quit mcuelenaere ()
22:58:30[TiZ]It centers, I think.
22:58:38[TiZ]Hold on just a moment.
22:59:17MassaPaulJam: but you can e.g. write text in a viewport depending on a conditional. And that text will get the defined background colour of the viewport. So you can dynamically switch on or of elements _in_ a viewport with visible bgcolour
23:00
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23:00:34[TiZ]Yeah, it's centered.
23:00:35PaulJamMassa: so the bg_pattern will only be under actual text and not fill the whole viewport?
23:00:49 Quit davina ("GNU/Linux the free alternative to Windows")
23:00:49[TiZ]When trying to use left alignment, it centers.
23:00:52davebergTiZ: I'm assuming your viewport that the cover art is in is bigger than the art itself
23:01:19[TiZ]Yeah, it is, daveberg. But I've got my album art-viewport dilemma fixed.
23:01:22MassaPaulJam: that's how it works (with and without my patch)...
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23:01:59davebergTiZ: that's good :)
23:02:17linuxstbdaveberg: I'm updated the CustomWPS page with the correct instructions for checkwps
23:02:25linuxstbs/I'm/I've/
23:02:48[TiZ]Yes indeed. I'm really happy that my theme works with the official build. :D
23:03:19PaulJamMassa: are you sure? i thought the bug that the backgroundcolour was only shown on lines that contain text was fixed even before the wps viewports were committed to SVN.
23:03:29daveberglinuxstb: sweet! I'll give it a shot in a few minutes, I have to step out for a moment
23:04:11davebergTiZ: I know what you mean. It's a good feeling when your theme doesn't require compiling a special build
23:04:22woosterI have a couple questions I would hope someone can kindly help with . First I see that 'Alarm WakeUp" is supported on the Sansa E260 but I can't find out how to access it. It's not in the manual or on the website that I can find. Is is available?
23:04:30[TiZ]My first theme Twilight needed Senab's when it first came out
23:04:31davebergok, I'll be back in a few
23:04:31*domonoky gets errors builing this checkwps tool on cygwin..
23:05:05[TiZ]But since margins was committed without the right side, the old one will never work again. :(
23:06:04domonokyit seems it doesnt understand the variable arguments.. ../../firmware/export/debug.h:25: error: parse error before "ATTRIBUTE_PRINTF"
23:06:37woosterFor instance, alarm wake-up is listed as "Yes" here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DeviceChart#SanDisk_units
23:07:44 Quit daveberg ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:08:42 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
23:10:12linuxstbwooster: I think that page lists the hardware features of each device - not all hardware features are implemented for all targets (yet)
23:10:29woosterlinux, stb, ok that makes total sense. Thanks
23:10:41 Join stripwax_ [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
23:10:41woosterI appreciate your help
23:10:47woosterI think i've found a possible small error in the WPS end-user documentation.
23:10:58woosterHere: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildap2.html#x16-265000B.7 it refers to %sp as the tag that will "display current playback pitch."
23:11:17woosterWhen I use that I just get the letter "p" displayed, and I presume it's interpreting that tag as "Scroll .... and display p" ... and of course "p" alone won't need to scroll.
23:11:26*domonoky corrects himself, cygwin (or my compiler) doesnt seem to like the ATTRIBUTE_PRINTF statement.. it works if i remove them... :-/
23:11:39woosterBut there's no display of anything like the playback pitch, just the letter "p"
23:12:37woosterDoes anyone know the true tag to display playback pitch?
23:13:02[TiZ]It's not on the CustomWPS page...
23:13:02 Quit stripwax_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:13:27 Join stripwax_ [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk)
23:13:51woosterTiZ, yes I found it on the this page but not on another page with tags
23:14:06woosterI presumed they were each missing some usable tags that were not on the other
23:14:16[TiZ]I see.
23:14:41woosterbut I could be wrong, of course. It happens regularly
23:15:17MassaPaulJam: I'm nearly sure - and I don't think this is a "bug", it's a feature ;) (I just wanted to reproduce it at the simulator, but my version is currently not compiling..)
23:15:39woosterAh, wait, this appears to be for another device (an Ipod?) and maybe this won't work with my sansa
23:15:44[TiZ]The search page on the forum seems to be broken.
23:15:56linuxstbwooster: I think it's a typo in the manual (and it's missing from CustomWPS) - it should be %Sp
23:16:03*domonoky thinks thats his gcc compiler on cygwin doesnt define __GNUC__, so it doesnt include the ATTRIBUTE_PRINTF macro and therefor fails..
23:16:17woosterlinux, ok thanks... Capital S .. I'll try that.
23:16:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:17:30 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:17:51woosterLinuxstb, yes you are right! It shoudl be capital s , so like this %Sp
23:18:03PaulJamMassa: you can use one of those uisims: rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator/ (or you could just believe me ;) )
23:18:07woosterthat does indeed display the pitch on my sansa
23:18:17*Bagder enables picky compiler warning for the tools build
23:18:22[TiZ]Does anyone have suggestions concerning the album art's not-working left alignment?
23:18:27Bagderstand by for impact
23:18:33amiconngcc always defines __GNUC__
23:18:34*wooster feels dumb for not trying a change of case on that letter.
23:18:38[TiZ]It doesn't look *bad* with center, but I'd prefer it on the left
23:18:40woosterThanks linuxstb
23:21:21 Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@32.169.235.175)
23:21:26bertrikBagder: picky is -W -Wall? maybe we should try −−pedantic :P
23:21:39Bagdersee the diff...
23:21:49Bagder:-)
23:22:29Bagderhm lots of red
23:22:53amiconnWhat's that weird printf() split in scramble.c for?
23:23:09Bagdertoo long string for C standard
23:23:26Bagderbut I must've broken something...
23:23:42woosteris there a way to have a conditional evaluate the output of a tag and display differentially based on that?
23:24:03woosterI don't want the pitch to display if it's 100 percent, but anything other and I'd like it to display
23:24:15amiconnEh? A string can become too long?
23:24:32*linuxstb says Eh? too
23:24:36woosterso it's not mere presence or absence of the output or an error string, but the output value needs to be evaluated
23:24:38*amiconn would have expected that strings can take all available address space....
23:24:40Bagderyeps, C90 only allows 512 bytes
23:24:55amiconnAnd C99?
23:25:06BagderI don't know
23:25:48*amiconn thinks that's a nonsensical limit
23:25:51preglowwtf
23:25:57preglowi've never even heard of that limit
23:26:15 Quit disorganizer ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]")
23:26:26Bagderwell, it's a limit the standard contains, gcc of course has no problems with longer ones
23:26:51*linuxstb finds 4095 for C99
23:26:57BagderI could add a -std=c99 or something
23:27:08 Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection)
23:27:39preglowwell, i see no reason not to use c99 for tools
23:27:59preglowit should be default anyway...
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23:28:29 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection)
23:28:58amiconnBagder: Somehow make now *deletes* sysfont.h - and subsequent objects which need it fail because of that....
23:29:03 Quit stripwax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:30:01MassaPaulJam: you're right - when not using a backdrop and when not using my patch ;) But I don't think that does make much sense... - I'll have to think about the consequences; but now I'm too tired to continue...
23:30:24webguest38Hi all! I am new to this. I'm asking Wiki write permission so I can add my experimental results with converting Archos JBR from HDD to CF. Thanks!
23:30:36linuxstbwebguest38: What's your name?
23:31:08webguest38My real name is Moshe Braner, registered on the wiki as MosheBraner.
23:31:11PaulJamMassa: i guess you can blame me for that. I reported it as a bug.
23:31:56linuxstbwebguest38: Done
23:32:04webguest38Thanks!
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23:33:25*amiconn votes for ignoring that nonsensical string length limit
23:34:02BagderI don't think it matters much
23:34:20MassaPaulJam: Lol - for me a viewport is only the definition of a "screen region" and if nothing is painted on it, it should be "invisible" - but I agree that you also could see the bgcolur definition as bgcolour of the "screen"...
23:34:40MassaWell I'll go to bed now - it's really time for me :)
23:35:43MassaBye - see (or read) you...
23:35:49 Quit Massa ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]")
23:36:30[TiZ]Hey, what's this deal about lists and menus drawing in viewports?
23:36:31[TiZ]http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=16812
23:37:38 Quit Chronon (Remote closed the connection)
23:37:45linuxstb[TiZ]: Just internal changes to how Rockbox works - nothing visible to the user.
23:38:16amiconnBagder: Some yellow for you...
23:38:23 Join moos [0] (i=moos@m170.net81-66-158.noos.fr)
23:38:28*petur now gets I08 PrivVio crashes in his bootloader - yippie :/
23:38:29[TiZ]Blast. It would have been really cool if viewport lists were committed too.
23:39:30amiconnpetur: Then you're somehow storing a wrong value to %sr
23:40:00 Join Chronon [0] (i=chronon@c-24-20-117-106.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
23:40:07*amiconn got that in the iriver remote lcd driver when c&p'ing from iaudio without obeying that the iriver driver uses %d3 for something else
23:40:43peturI seem to reach up to usb_init alright, from then on it only goes boom :(
23:41:11*amiconn wonders what petur is fiddling with
23:41:20amiconnThe latest official bl is working fine...
23:41:26peturin check_tmo_threads
23:41:37ChrononJust for reference I posted a fix for that typo (about the %Sp tag) in the manual here: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8866
23:41:38peturamiconn: it crashes on my h380
23:41:48 Join daveberg [0] (n=dave@129-2-175-69.wireless.umd.edu)
23:42:10peturand somebody at MR created a custom bootloader and a user also reported this crash
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23:43:40amiconnBagder: Casting size_t to int isn't safe afaik
23:43:56 Quit perrikwp (K-lined)
23:44:10Bagderwe have buffer sizes larger than 31 bits?
23:44:26preglowsize_t is unsigned, it can also be larger than int
23:44:26 Part wpyh
23:44:34Bagderbesides, it's just a printf
23:44:53Bagderpreglow: yes but at that place I can't see how it can
23:45:17Bagderit's just that I dislike using the special printf formatter for size_t,
23:45:18amiconnIt could in case of a bug
23:45:18preglowprintfing size_t is %zu
23:45:32preglowBagder: why?
23:45:37amiconnI'd cast to unsigned long in this case
23:46:08Bagderbecause I use old-fashioned C code ;-)
23:46:09linuxstbChronon: Thanks, but I've just fixed it (and CustomWPS)
23:46:21 Quit Llorean (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:46:21*amiconn also doesn't like those special formatters
23:46:22preglowBagder: you dislike adapting? :P
23:46:23Chrononok. good
23:46:50BagderI don't think %z is standard
23:46:56preglowi like the special formatters, they sometimes help find bugs when gccs printf format checking is on
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23:47:34Bagderwell, I didn't introduce the bug with the typecast
23:47:41BagderI just silenced the warning ;-)
23:47:58preglowahh, cool, an eq bug report!
23:48:17davebergok, I need some help using checkwps...I compiled all the versions using ./buildall.sh, but when I run the "checkwps" command, it's telling me "command not found"
23:48:22 Quit webguest38 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:48:28amiconn(1) I never remember what those special formatters mean -> time consuming lookup. (2) rockbox *printf doesn't know them, and I think that's for the better
23:48:42Bagder(3) they're not portable
23:48:52 Quit dabujo ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )")
23:48:55amiconnThey would just increase code size for no reason
23:49:04scorche|shdaveberg: how are you calling it?
23:49:22preglowamiconn: i don't think rockbox printf should know them either
23:49:35preglowbut printf isn't exactly rockbox most used function either, so it's not so much a point in rockbox
23:49:41preglowfor ordinary c coding, i think using them is good
23:49:53davebergin the /tools/checkwps folder, I type "checkwps [path to .wps file]"
23:49:58 Quit stripwax_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:49:59preglowBagder: they're not portable?
23:50:02preglowthey're ansi c...
23:50:09Bagder%z ?
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23:50:30woosterthanks for your help, all, especially linuxstb. bye!
23:50:37Bagderit is not present in the single unix spec I check right now
23:50:40 Quit wooster ()
23:51:28scorche|shdaveberg: you need to call it with "./checkwps" unless you added it to your path
23:51:41BagderI think writing typecase instead of typecast is one of my most common spelling mistakes
23:51:43 Quit stripwax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:51:47BagderI am flawed
23:51:55davebergoh, ok...makes sense
23:52:01preglowBagder: what about ansi specs?
23:52:28linuxstbdaveberg: But there isn't a "checkwps" any more - it's checkwps.targetname
23:52:48 Quit stripwax_ (Client Quit)
23:52:50davebergoh
23:52:55Bagderthe printf man page mentions z as an extension to ansi
23:52:56 Quit [TiZ] (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:53:05davebergthat didn't get changed when you changed the compiling instructions...
23:53:11preglowBagder: hmm, i see no such mention here
23:53:31preglowand it sounds weird to have introduced types with no format support
23:53:40davebergso if I'm using a Gigabeat F40, I use checkwps.gigabeatf?
23:53:47Bagderhttp://www.rt.com/man/printf.3.html
23:54:17preglowBagder: 1996...
23:54:28linuxstbdaveberg: Yes
23:54:35Bagderah you mean c99...
23:54:49davebergsweet
23:54:50preglowBagder: why, sure
23:54:53daveberggot it working!
23:54:54BagderI'm just not used to use c99 as a lowest common
23:55:00preglowwell, it's not
23:55:04preglowbut it's time to move on :)
23:55:16preglowc is enough of a bother as it is
23:55:24preglowwithout having to ignore perfectly helpful new standards
23:55:45preglowand it's from 1999 from god's sake :P
23:55:56amiconnWell, we do use several C99 features in rockbox
23:55:58preglows/from/for/
23:56:04bughunter2i thought C99 still isn't fully supported by GCC, is that true?
23:56:10preglowbughunter2: not fully, but very close
23:56:13BagderI'm used to a world full of machines from pre-99
23:56:14amiconn...like the very useful designated initializers
23:56:17 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
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23:56:24bughunter2preglow: ok :)
23:56:27preglowhttp://gcc.gnu.org/c99status.html
23:56:32bughunter2thanks!
23:56:40bughunter2i'll bookmark that one
23:57:18bughunter2preglow: so, C99 should solve most problems ?
23:57:18bughunter2can you name a few common problems with C89 ?
23:57:18bughunter2if there are any
23:57:35preglowno, not really
23:57:36Bagderbughunter2: that's really not on topic for #rockbox...
23:57:43bughunter2Bagder: true
23:58:04preglowanyway, i use c99 unless anything else is required
23:58:17preglowand if i have to use c...
23:58:18bughunter2sorry for a bit of offtopic chat
23:58:28preglowbughunter2: no worries
23:58:51bughunter2preglow: could you compare web standards issues and browser incompatibilities with C and compilers? or is that really not comparable?

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