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#rockbox log for 2008-04-21

00:00:38toffe82so if there is always a way to recover
00:01:38 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:01:43 Join DerPapst [0] (n=Der@p5B23EFEE.dip.t-dialin.net)
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00:02:19DerPapstbeast, beavt or both?
00:02:39toffe82I am on the V actually
00:02:47toffe82but the S must be the same
00:02:49gevaertsbricks are useful to build towers :)
00:03:00amiconnProbably the V and S are about as similar as the F and X
00:03:31Orimilii like the S
00:05:10DerPapstdo they have the same screen resolution? i guess they do
00:06:23toffe82yes
00:06:37toffe82but the screen is bigger on the V
00:07:37*DerPapst preferes the s then :-)
00:07:39toffe82but I have to find out if the security hole on the S is working on the V, I need to contact zunepet :)
00:08:21DerPapsthowever i like landscape targets more.
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00:15:32peturdo the current touchpad drivers need much filtering/debouncing? I made one for the H10 with most code needed just to get something stable :/
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00:18:08 Quit desowin ("KVIrc 4.0.0 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/")
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00:40:59 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
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00:45:54preglowhrmph
00:46:08preglowis there no way to detect an accessory? i doubt apple handles accessory power this way
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00:52:09 Quit ender` (" First things first, but not necessarily in that order.")
00:56:14LloreanDo we have a policy on wiki pages like this: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LogoSwapper
00:56:26 Join Shaid [0] (n=adam@dsl-202-45-112-116-static.VIC.netspace.net.au)
00:56:36LloreanIt's simply a third party tool someone random has created to directly modify a Rockbox binary. As well, it has no included license or anything, to boot.
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01:00:27gevaertsI think that the wiki page is not a problem as such, but the binary with no license is (at least as long as it's actually hosted on the rockbox.org server)
01:01:17 Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting")
01:01:21*gevaerts also doesn't see the point. You see that bitmap for all of two seconds
01:03:24*DerPapst replaced it on noe target...
01:03:29DerPapst*one
01:04:12gevaertsDid you put an iPL logo on it ?
01:04:35DerPapstheh no...but maybe i should :-)
01:06:35Lloreangevaerts: Well it's, in a way, similar to the idea of hosting unsupported builds. We don't like people creating wiki page for their BobBuild or whatever.
01:06:40 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:06:42LloreanBut yeah, the big issue is the lack of license.
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01:09:08gevaertsLlorean: good point.
01:09:46 Quit Ebert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:12:02LloreanBasically, its use turns any build into an unsupported build, as well. It's closed source, so we can't check what it's doing, and even if it's open source, it's making a modification of the binary and we can't be assured it's bug free, ever, really.
01:12:27w1ll14mgnight all, we'll see what happens tomorrow ;)
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01:12:48*gevaerts agrees.
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01:13:08w1ll14mi might have done something interesting...
01:13:19w1ll14mbut i will let it know if it is finished
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01:13:33*Llorean updates the warning on the page, for now
01:14:57*DerPapst guesses it has something to do with the beast and i2c
01:15:21quest23 /msg nickserv set hide email on
01:17:04 Quit gevaerts ("sleep")
01:17:14DerPapst /ns gost quest23 bla
01:17:19DerPapst*ghost even
01:17:47kkurbjunIf we have to make a new gigabeat bootloader release, would it be better to have the original firmware take care of the extra case when it's loaded with the old FW? It shouldn't be hard to do, but the code is dependent on how large specific portions of code are
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01:18:36kkurbjunso the downside is that in the future people could be running into bugs caused by this code if the begining portions of the code increase much
01:18:50kkurbjunspecifically the mmu portions of the code
01:19:00Lloreankkurbjun: "The extra case"?
01:19:26kkurbjunthe old bootloader loads rockbox with an offset of 100 bytes
01:19:38kkurbjunto allow for the vector table to be copied back in
01:19:46kkurbjunand it's also linked that way
01:19:56kkurbjunbut that causes problems with the flash enabled builds
01:20:20kkurbjunso that 100 byte offset can be detected if rockbox is loaded with an older fw and taken care of
01:20:45kkurbjunbut if the code in crt0.s is offset much more it won't work right
01:21:09kkurbjunright now it's not an issue, but I could see it being a problem if someone added more features to the mmu code
01:21:21LloreanAh
01:21:23 Quit dabujo ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )")
01:21:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:21:51kkurbjunthe consequence of loading with an older bootloader is the player shuts down emmediately
01:22:07kkurbjunbut we have the bootloader usb mode that people can use to update their bootloader
01:22:24kkurbjunor I can add code in to take care of an older bootloader
01:22:26LloreanWe've broken support for older bootloaders in the past.
01:22:33LloreanWhen it's necessary enough
01:22:43LloreanBut I don't know what you mean by "have the original firmware take care of the extra case"
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01:24:14kkurbjunsorry, I worded that completely wrong "would it be better to have the original firmware take care of the extra case when it's loaded with the old FW?" I mean Would it be better to have the main rockbox build take care of the extra case when it's loaded with the old bootloader
01:24:29kkurbjunwow, that sentence didn't communicate what I meant at all :P
01:24:37LloreanThat's perhaps why I was confused. :)
01:24:39MRWNew here. I have a .frm radio preset file for San Diego CA to upload.
01:26:13Lloreankkurbjun: I'd say it's okay to break support for the old bootloader as long as we try to get the new bootloader out *before* we break the old one (assuming the new bootloader works with old builds). We broke old builds with dual core support, and things went over okay. The important thing is that the new bootloader can be installed when Rockbox itself can't boot, and bootloader USB should allow for this
01:26:56LloreanMRW: .fmr, and are you asking for wiki write access?
01:26:56kkurbjununfortunately there's not a clean way to release a new bootloader before it's required
01:27:10Lloreankkurbjun: New bootloader won't work with old builds?
01:27:47pixelmaMRW: are you asking for wiki write permission? Then we'd have to know your wiki name... :)
01:27:57*pixelma too slow
01:28:00 Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:28:09MRWLlorean: Yep.
01:28:23LloreanMRW: Then as pixelma said, we need to know your wiki name
01:28:30MRWWiki Name: Marc Whitaker
01:28:33kkurbjunno, the old bootloader added that 100 byte offset, the new one doesn't and I don't see a really good way to detect whether it's an old build or not. I'm trying to unify the bootloader and the main build code along with adding in a way for rolo to work
01:28:47kkurbjunalong with flash booting of the bootloader and the main build
01:29:30kkurbjunwhen I say unify the bootloader and main build code I'm specifically talking about removing the bootloader special cases scattered around
01:29:46kkurbjunin the lcd driver, and in CRT0.s
01:30:22LloreanMRW: You should have write access now
01:30:50Lloreankkurbjun: This is when RButil could've come in handy, if people were using it widely
01:30:52MRWLlorean: Thanks.
01:31:21Lloreankkurbjun: But I guess a note on major changes and the front page would be okay, imho. But I guess others should weigh in.
01:31:42*amiconn wants that link back, btw
01:32:23Lloreanamiconn: Who was that directed at?
01:32:39amiconnMajorChanges link...
01:32:51LloreanAh.
01:32:52LloreanAgreed
01:33:56 Quit MRW ("CGI:IRC")
01:34:23kkurbjunyeah, I'll wait and see if anyone else has an opinion - I'm going to work on adding detection and see if I can get some of this mmu code out of .init.text
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01:36:36amiconnLlorean: Do you remember where that link used to be located on the front page?
01:37:05Lloreanamiconn: No, I don't.
01:42:16*Nico_P doesn't recall there being a link to majorchanges on the front page
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01:48:51DerPapstthere was.. iirc it was located near the recent svn table
01:49:36LloreanYeah, it was definitely somewhere in that vicinity I think
01:49:42LloreanI remember seeing it there, for sure
01:49:45LloreanOn the page, I mean
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02:03:37DerPapstnight all :-)
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02:25:33almita hola necesito ayuda tengo un ipod 80gb 5.5g y corre bien el ipodlinux y el rockbox
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02:26:28rolamahola
02:26:31rolamaholaaaaaaaa
02:26:37rolamaalguien me puede ayudar
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02:30:08rolamaI have a 80gb iPod generation 5.5 and installed linuxmanager and rockbox and ilaunch and not working
02:30:57cool_walking_I have no idea what linuxmanager or ilaunch are, but they're not supported.
02:32:11rolamaI support good with rockbox
02:32:47 Quit TaylorKillian ("Leaving.")
02:32:48cool_walking_Please rephrase that.
02:34:02rolamaAy some pluying to read pdf
02:34:32rolamaAnd that I can not play pacman
02:35:58cool_walking_Pacman requires you to have ROMs from a Pacman machine. I think you can only legally acquire these if you have your own Pacman machine.
02:37:16rolamaAnd the next in pluyings of rockbox what is not working and try to start
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02:39:35rolamaIs someone
02:39:53cool_walking_I am trying to understand what you said.
02:41:25rolamaOK apology
02:42:04soapiLaunch, if I understand correctly, is an iPodLinux application - irrelevant.
02:42:51soapLinuxmanager is another iPodLinux product, and possibly not irrelevant.
02:43:02soaprolama, what you need to do is remove the ipod linux bootloader.
02:43:14soapGet your iPod back to an Apple Firmware only state.
02:43:57rolamaBut that if noce if install rockbox but now I have and I want to know how good it is
02:44:08soapThen install the Rockbox bootloader. It will also launch iPod linux if you so desire, but we can not help you so long as the ipodlinux bootloader is on your system. It is not Rockbox software, and very well likely does not work well with Rockbox anymore.
02:44:26soapRockbox is very good at playing music.
02:44:56soapI am sorry if I also misunderstood you and you have Rockbox working properly without problems.
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02:45:17soapRockbox is ten times better than iPod linux at playing music.
02:46:29rolamaI agree the sound quality is better but what else can I do I read pdf
02:46:51soapdo you want to read a PDF on Rockbox, or are you saying you have read the PDF manual?
02:48:39rolamaWant to read a PDF in Rockbox I saw him in a page that could or could even future
02:49:16soapRockbox does not have a PDF viewer.
02:49:45soap:(
02:50:22rolamaAnd pluying and applications are only brought default or I have more
02:52:19rolama And pluying and applications are only brought default or I have more
02:54:12rolamaAnd pluying and applications are only brought default or I have more
02:54:15cool_walking_We did see your message the first time, we are just having some difficulty understanding you.
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02:57:30cool_walking_Could you try rephrasing?
02:58:26rolamaChange that
02:58:29cool_walking_There are some additional plugins if you are willing to compile your own build of Rockbox.
02:59:10krazykitnone of them are PDF viewers though.
03:00
03:00:08cool_walking_Rockbox can currently only view plain text documents. There are PC tools available to convert PDF to plain text. Usually they are named "pdf2text" or something similar.
03:00:12rolama And where I get to explain
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03:01:40rolamaAnd observe well the pdf where discharge converter
03:03:25rolamaThat changes the rockbox for 30gb and 60 and 80gb and has something to do such a version is the 5g and the other from 5.5g
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03:06:09quest23what is car adapter mode in the general system settings for???
03:06:30cool_walking_rolama, are you using a language translator such as Babelfish or Google Translate? If so, maybe you could try another one.
03:06:35Lloreanquest23: Is it not in the manual?
03:07:19rolamaIf you use Google
03:09:01 Quit quest23 (Client Quit)
03:09:58rolamaAnd where I obtain the convertor and in that it(he,she) changes rockbox in the ipod of 30 and 60 and 80gb and also in as(according to) his(her,your) generations
03:10:36rolamaThis way already you can read it
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03:14:55rolama And where I obtain the convertor
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03:15:34Lloreanrolama: The installation tools are described in the manual.
03:15:40cool_walking_Which converter? PDF to plain text, or language translator?
03:16:38rolama PDF to plain text
03:18:46rolama Llorean Only I want to know of mas pluyings
03:19:39LloreanWe do not know of more plugins.
03:20:44rolamaAnd of applications
03:21:10LloreanPlugins are the same as applications.
03:21:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:22:07rolamaThen only I need the convertor of pdf to txt
03:22:34LloreanUse google. We don't have one. We only know they exist.
03:22:50rolamaAnd topics apart from that sigh in the page
03:23:36LloreanI do not understand.
03:24:01rolamaTo ok thank you for his(her,your) help we meet then
03:25:00rolamaThank you
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03:40:25 Part pixelma
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03:47:34DarkWhere can I download rockboy? :/
03:47:54LloreanPlease, read the manual.
03:47:56DarkI found a download before but it only had a .exe in it...or if thats what I need how do I install it to rockbox?
03:48:20DarkI've real everything in the past half hour -_- nothing.
03:48:24Darkread*
03:48:44LloreanWhat player do you have?
03:48:54DarkSansa e250
03:49:27LloreanSo the manual has Rockboy in it?
03:50:06DarkUh nope?
03:50:11DarkIt does not.
03:50:26DarkThe Wiki for Rockbox does, but it does not explain where to put it on the player :/.
03:50:54LloreanDark: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-sansae200/rockbox-buildch10.html#x13-20100010.3.5
03:51:01LloreanThis certainly looks like a section in the e200 manual for Rockboy to me...
03:52:04DarkThanks, the manual I have, I looked for rockboy...X_x, maybe plugins was the key word there.
03:52:36LloreanWell, that's the official manual. It's generated from the .pdf file we provide, which is also the official manual.
03:52:43LloreanSince one is generated from the other, the content is identical.
03:53:07LloreanIf you were looking at something else, other than something from the page behind the "Manual" link at our site, then it's not the manual
03:53:13DarkWait, thats the manual for rockboy, but it says nothing about where to put on the player?
03:53:55LloreanAll official plugins are included...
03:54:24DarkReally? Mine doesn't have rockboy when I installed rockbox >_<
03:54:32LloreanYes it does
03:54:41LloreanRead the manual section I linked for how to use it.
03:54:53LloreanMaybe read the section header for "Viewers" as well, while you're at it.
03:56:20DarkI'm still lost here, if it's included, where in plugins on the player is it? It's not in the games, apps, or demos....
03:56:37LloreanDid you read the section header for Viewers like I just told you to?
03:57:31DarkJust did but it's a tad confusing..
03:57:50LloreanWhat exactly don't you understand?
03:58:37DarkSomething about .links and having to create a .txt...?
03:59:23LloreanUhm, are you sure you didn't just read the text viewer section, rather than the header for 'Viewers'?
03:59:27LloreanPlease, take your time and read carefully
03:59:54LloreanViewers cannot be run directly, you just play the file with the associated extension
03:59:59LloreanIn the rockboy section it says "To start a game open a ROM file saved as .gb or .gbc in the file browser."
04:00
04:00:15LloreanSo, you "play" a .gbc file, and it runs.
04:00:26DarkYes I've read the viewers.
04:00:45Dark...Yes I know that
04:00:52DarkThe problem is I don't -have- rockboy..
04:00:57LloreanYes, you DO
04:01:06LloreanHave you tried simply clicking on a .gbc file in the file browser?
04:01:11LloreanExactly like it tells you to do?
04:01:26Darkx-X ooooh I get it.
04:01:33DarkI have to put the roms on, and I don't technically click rockboy...
04:01:59LloreanIn there it explicitly says that you DON'T run the viewer itself
04:02:10Darkoh >_> so where should I put the roms?..
04:02:17LloreanAnywhere
04:02:37Darkalright.
04:02:38DarkLet's see.
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04:04:28DarkI put the rom in the "games" folder, but it's not showing up?
04:05:08LloreanAre you using the normal file browser, and what do you have the "File view" setting set as?
04:05:55DarkNormal File Browser? And File view? [I have touched nothing since I installed rockbox so that may explain somethings]
04:06:33LloreanThe "Files" option in the main menu.
04:07:21DarkAh, so I create a folder there, and then...hmm
04:07:31Llorean"Files" is the file browser.
04:07:35Darkgotcha.
04:07:40LloreanI strongly suggest you spend a little more time getting familiar with the basics.
04:07:47LloreanWherever you put them, you'll have to be able to find them through "Files"
04:07:57Darkso could I create a folder in the root named roms
04:07:58Darkand put them there
04:08:00Darkand acess it like that?
04:08:05LloreanIt's going to be next to impossible for someone to help you decently if you're not familiar with the stuff in the manual.
04:08:07LloreanAnd, yes.
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04:43:20Darkis there any way to power-off my sansa e250? >_> it crashed...holding power fails...
04:45:32fpletzDark: just keep on pressing power for about 20 seconds, should turn off anyway
04:47:20Darkoh lol
04:47:22Dark50 seconds and it finally did
04:48:06fpletzhmm, never had to hold down that long ;)
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04:52:28tarelerulzI have the ipod nano block that does video , songs and photos
04:52:43tarelerulzI was wondering does rockbox work on that?
04:53:37LloreanNo.
04:53:49LloreanRockbox only works on the first iPod Nano
04:55:11tarelerulzCan you get interface to be easy to use like the ipod ? can you change stuff like that?
04:56:03LloreanI don't understand what you're asking.
04:57:27tarelerulzI have seen the rockbox gui and I was wondering change you chage it to something different. Layout , icons , ect
04:58:11LloreanIt's open source, so technically you can change it however you want.
04:58:40LloreanBut, more generally, the screen you see while music is playing is fully customizable, while the menus are more restricted. You can change the font, and icons, and colors, and background, but not much else right now
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05:11:35*OtherLlor wonders why target 33 in Configure is described as "33) Cowon D2" rather than simply "33) D2" like the other iAudio players
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06:14:45LloreanjhMikeS: You around?
06:19:56jhMikeSsi
06:20:13LloreanJust wondering, now that UMS seems to work, maybe the bootloader should boot Rockbox primary now?
06:20:40jhMikeScould do that, yes
06:20:55jhMikeSSeems stable enough
06:21:28LloreanSeems logical to me, but I didn't know if there was any reasons I didn't know about for the reversed boot.
06:22:25jhMikeSnot to me. it's still a developer port and flicking hold is annoying if retailos is on it.
06:22:39LloreanYes
06:26:37jhMikeSgevaerts: (for the logs) I think I found the reason for the USB trouble on PP. Try setting USBMODE_STREAM_DISABLE in REG_USBMODE and putting things back in RAM as they were. I ran 2GB both ways with and without a hub without "no prime" or "bus reset" on H10. TXFILLTUNING should probably be configured instead of using that bit. This makes sense since it adjusts for system memory latencies and suggest as to why IRAM would have a positive effect
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06:35:30jhMikeSbootloader changed
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07:38:41raphikann mir jemand sagen, wie eine 'database.ignore' aussehen soll? Wie muss ich da die pfade eintragen?
07:41:33Lloreanraphi: This is an English language channel, please.
07:42:04w1ll14m|awLlorean: how is it possible that you are here so much ?
07:42:08 Nick w1ll14m|aw is now known as w1ll14m (n=william@dhcp-077-249-150-171.chello.nl)
07:42:31w1ll14mi mean... you are here in the evenings, in the mornings, and in the nights....
07:42:33raphiok, sorry, I just wanted to ask how to use the 'database.ignore'. How shall I write the path in there? backslashes? normal slashes..?
07:42:46LloreanYou don't put anything in it.
07:42:52LloreanYou make copies of it.
07:43:11LloreanIf you put a file called database.ignore in D:\stuff\, then the database will ignore everything in D:\stuff
07:43:40raphiOk, no I know why that didn't work....
07:43:42raphiThanks!
07:43:45w1ll14manyways, i'm gone to work :) see ya all soon.
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07:43:56Lloreanw1ll14m: I'm very often near a computer. If I am, I try to leave a client open
07:44:04w1ll14m|awahh :)
07:44:27w1ll14m|awwell... i guess i'll see you aroung tonight when i'm back ;)
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