00:00:07 | PaulJam | the official build has viewports, so if your wps uses the scrolling margins patch you'll have to modify it to work with the curent build |
00:00:30 | * | amiconn is rather confused now by the linker :( |
00:00:51 | bertrik | still working on the UIE stuff? |
00:01:23 | amiconn | yes |
00:01:28 | * | ^Parrot^ is not a coder just a new user of rockbox |
00:01:35 | * | bertrik knows nothing about that |
00:01:46 | amiconn | Somehow the linker tries to find crt0-pp-bl.o outside librockbox.a |
00:02:11 | ^Parrot^ | so If I see a theme that needs the scroller patch, it is not likely to work with the latest build? |
00:02:15 | linuxstb | That's probably because it's specified in the linker script |
00:02:15 | amiconn | If I remove firmware/ from the list of include paths, it complains in cannot find target/arm/crt0-pp-bl.o |
00:02:33 | amiconn | But .a files don't include paths afaik |
00:03:08 | amiconn | If I specify system.o explicitly on the command line, it works, but that's dirty |
00:03:52 | amiconn | And if I specify crt0-pp-bl.o explicitly (without removing the include path), it complains about duplicate symbols - obviously it tries to link that thing twice... |
00:04:08 | bertrik | are you sure crt0-pp-bl.o is actually inside librockbox.a? |
00:04:15 | amiconn | yes |
00:04:20 | linuxstb | Maybe it's something to do with the way the library is build - it's finding main (and UIE when added) in the bootloader .o, but not symbols in the .a file |
00:04:43 | amiconn | arm-elf-ar -t librockbox.a shows it |
00:04:57 | PaulJam | ^Parrot^: you don't need to be a coder to modify the wps. the format is documented here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome?topic=CustomWPS |
00:05:04 | amiconn | s/-t/t/ |
00:05:18 | ^Parrot^ | what about bmp resize? should I make them 200x200 176x176 100x100? or make bmps at all 3 sizes depending on the theme? |
00:05:28 | amiconn | eh? |
00:06:19 | ^Parrot^ | PaulJam: I was not planning on doing any wps work at all. I just wanted to find a theme that I liked (I hve found a few) some require bmp resize, scrillomng and/orAA |
00:06:52 | | Quit EspeonEefi ("ăăăȘă") |
00:07:33 | PaulJam | ^Parrot^: i think the easiest way is to try the WPS. if you see a very basic text only WPS, then it doesn't work with the official build. |
00:07:46 | ^Parrot^ | k |
00:08:16 | ^Parrot^ | Trial and error... o the days of punch cards come flying back to my brain |
00:08:36 | ^Parrot^ | reading that wps page thanks |
00:09:04 | gevaerts | austriancoder: volume seems the same as on my previous build (17229), but I can't hear any difference at all between -6 and +9 on 17229, so I'm afraid you'll need another tester for that. |
00:09:17 | amiconn | The linker script specifies an explicit INPUT() |
00:09:23 | ^Parrot^ | at the risk of starting a war, what is the current status on a jpg patch or modified build that does suppor jpg? |
00:09:25 | austriancoder | gevaerts: change bass settings |
00:09:31 | * | gevaerts either has wrong music or wrong ears for this |
00:10:01 | gevaerts | austriancoder: I changed Settings -> Sound Settings -> Bass |
00:10:08 | | Quit w1ll14m (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
00:11:35 | amiconn | Aha, hmm.... |
00:11:38 | austriancoder | gevaerts: okay.. I think i have found the probelm.. wm8751 defineds [SOUND_BASS] = {"dB", 1, 15, -60, 90, 0}, the probelm is now the 15.. I think i will revert this change until i/we found a good way to handle 1.5 db steps |
00:14:18 | * | gevaerts decides to never volunteer again for sound tests. You need to hear differences for that... |
00:14:46 | austriancoder | ;) |
00:15:11 | * | linuxstb is reminded of the first version of the X5 audio driver that had something like no sound above about 10KHz - and no-one noticed for a while... |
00:15:29 | Bagder | yeah, I used that... |
00:15:32 | gevaerts | In a way I'm lucky. I can use lower bitrates :) |
00:15:42 | Bagder | ... without noticing |
00:15:44 | linuxstb | Bagder: Yes, I was thinking of your ears ;) |
00:15:58 | * | linuxstb probably wouldn't have noticed anything either... |
00:18:10 | * | gevaerts decides to rip out al these useless audio settings |
00:19:23 | | Quit einhirn_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
00:21:56 | | Nick gregzx is now known as GregZzZzZzZX (n=chatzill@dss148.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
00:23:04 | Nico_P | ^Parrot^: there's no patch or build that supports JPEG AA yet |
00:23:09 | | Quit faemir (Connection timed out) |
00:24:16 | Nico_P | gevaerts: #define HAVE_AUDIO_SETTINGS :) |
00:25:16 | Bagder | #define HAVE_TIN_EARS |
00:25:19 | gevaerts | Nico_P: something like that. I think I'l keep the volume control :) |
00:25:23 | * | Bagder goes to bed |
00:25:49 | * | gevaerts thinks that this is an excellent idea. Goodnight |
00:25:59 | Nico_P | good night to you both ;) |
00:26:05 | linuxstb | Our users must be reassured to know devs of audio firmwares have such good hearing... |
00:26:23 | * | gevaerts only does usb :) |
00:26:38 | ^Parrot^ | Nico_P: thanx and GN |
00:26:44 | | Quit gevaerts ("bedtime") |
00:26:54 | * | linuxstb only does lossless - so he can check the md5sum of the output |
00:27:22 | DerPapst | tricky :-) |
00:27:59 | * | Nico_P did the same for early buffering code |
00:28:14 | Nico_P | ...I wish it was as easy now |
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00:33:04 | | Quit lee-qid_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
00:35:32 | | Join Sh0rtnArm3d [0] (n=rsiyasen@adsl-156-98-239.asm.bellsouth.net) |
00:35:40 | Sh0rtnArm3d | help |
00:36:04 | Sh0rtnArm3d | im trying to install rockbox on my Ipod Nano 1st Gen |
00:36:44 | | Quit ompaul (Client Quit) |
00:36:51 | Sh0rtnArm3d | however when ever i try to install the bootloader i get an error saying "failed to add bootloader" in the progress window |
00:37:31 | | Quit fyre^OS (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
00:38:18 | | Join bluefoxx [0] (n=bluefoxx@S01060015e968e813.vs.shawcable.net) |
00:38:34 | Sh0rtnArm3d | can anyone help?? |
00:38:36 | bluefoxx | will rockbox run on a 2nd gen ipod nano? |
00:38:48 | DerPapst | bluefoxx: nope |
00:39:04 | bluefoxx | DerPapst: is it planned to be done??... |
00:39:28 | Sh0rtnArm3d | Derpapst: ne idea how to fix my "bootloader failed to add" problem? |
00:39:40 | DerPapst | Sh0rtnArm3d: be patient. I don' know the solution to your problem but others might know. |
00:39:46 | DerPapst | *don't |
00:40:24 | DerPapst | bluefoxx: ports aren't planned, they're done by peoples interested in them. |
00:40:26 | | Quit austriancoder (Remote closed the connection) |
00:40:41 | | Quit bertrik ("bye") |
00:40:58 | bluefoxx | ah, i see... |
00:41:02 | DerPapst | bluefoxx: and major problems have to be solved before a port is possible |
00:41:09 | bluefoxx | such as??... |
00:41:20 | DerPapst | so it's not very likely something happens for the next years |
00:41:30 | | Join zajacattack [0] (n=42617dae@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-1e3e42a8048ea1db) |
00:41:56 | DerPapst | the firmware is encrypted and it's currently not possible to run any custom code on the iPod |
00:42:17 | bluefoxx | well that sucks then :\ |
00:42:20 | DerPapst | since this code has to be decrypted again. |
00:43:06 | bluefoxx | would it help if someone pestered apple for the code? |
00:44:09 | DerPapst | Sh0rtnArm3d: most people in here are from europe and it's ~Midnight - 1am here currently. But normally bootloader installation should work fine from rbutil. Have you tried to restore your Ipod before? |
00:44:25 | DerPapst | bluefoxx: no. |
00:46:29 | | Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@CERULEANCITY.MIT.EDU) |
00:46:30 | DerPapst | bluefoxx: only ~0.5% of all nano 2g would be in this key and apple doesn't care about such a minority. |
00:46:31 | Sh0rtnArm3d | Derpapst: restore? by pressing select and menu? |
00:46:42 | DerPapst | Sh0rtnArm3d: restore with itunes |
00:46:44 | DerPapst | not reset |
00:47:44 | Sh0rtnArm3d | Der: il try right now... tell me if im correct you goon itunes then click ipod then summary and then restore? |
00:48:01 | DerPapst | yep |
00:48:26 | Sh0rtnArm3d | Der: now it goes to some software update window |
00:48:46 | Sh0rtnArm3d | ..now its downloading something |
00:48:55 | bluefoxx | so how can i reset a ipod to factory settings in linux? what tools are there? |
00:48:58 | | Quit ^Parrot^ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
00:50:31 | DerPapst | bluefoxx: dunno if you can in linux. |
00:50:58 | Sh0rtnArm3d | Der: man you rock worked like a charm |
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00:51:20 | bluefoxx | DerPapst: damn. a computerless friend of mine wanted me to reset all the crap in his ipod he got given[a friend of his gave him they're old ipod] |
00:51:41 | DerPapst | bluefoxx: does the OF still work? |
00:51:50 | Sh0rtnArm3d | Der: i have one more question can i add music through itunes and still hear it on rockbox? and how about videos? |
00:51:52 | bluefoxx | DerPapst: yus |
00:52:10 | | Quit ender` (" I think I remember an episode of MacGyver where he overthrew a violent dictator with a rubber band, 2 bottle caps, and some") |
00:52:24 | DerPapst | bluefoxx: mount the iPod, go to iPod_Control/MusicFxx and dele all the files in the Fxx folders. |
00:52:39 | bluefoxx | DerPapst: kk |
00:52:48 | DerPapst | and some other files such as the iTunesDB (all located under iPod_Control) |
00:53:10 | DerPapst | Sh0rtnArm3d: 1. yes, 2 use the OF |
00:53:29 | DerPapst | or use the MpegPlayerPlugin (check the manual for this.) |
00:53:31 | bluefoxx | DerPapst: so that removes his buddy's name from there to right? |
00:53:40 | DerPapst | probably not. |
00:53:49 | DerPapst | but that can be fixed from windows |
00:54:18 | DerPapst | but honestly, i don't know for sure. i know almost nothing about these newer iPods |
00:54:47 | bluefoxx | >. < i dont do windows. the only windows PC remaining in my inventory is a 98box used for games WINE spews complaints about <. < |
00:54:53 | | Quit herrwaldo ("Konversation terminated!") |
00:55:18 | DerPapst | visit a friend with windows then :-P |
00:56:31 | bluefoxx | DerPapst: hehe, that might work XD |
01:00 |
01:00:14 | amiconn | Hah, finally I understand what causes the UIE problem |
01:00:26 | amiconn | Unfortunately I'm not sure about the best solution yet |
01:00:59 | Nico_P | amiconn: may I ask what UIE means? |
01:01:10 | Nico_P | (and congratulations btw ;) ) |
01:01:11 | amiconn | Unexpected Interrupt or Exception |
01:01:56 | amiconn | The problem has nothing to do with that specific function, btw, but only with how it's referenced, and how the linker collects the needed object files |
01:03:22 | amiconn | Hmm, seems the fix is even nearly trivial |
01:03:25 | * | amiconn verifies |
01:03:36 | DerPapst | amiconn: :-) |
01:05:43 | amiconn | Ah, yes |
01:05:55 | amiconn | It's definitely an internal file order problem in the linker |
01:06:32 | amiconn | The problem is that both the Makefile specifies objects and libs on the command line, and the .lds specifies the crt0 object with INPUT() |
01:07:00 | amiconn | Obviously files specified with INPUT() are *always* processed *after* all files and libs specified on the command line |
01:07:06 | DerPapst | did you get that problem for all targets? |
01:07:25 | amiconn | So symbols needed by crt0 *only* won't be included from libs |
01:08:21 | amiconn | There is a simple solution though - the startup file can be specified in the .lds by using STARTUP() instead of INPUT() - that causes it to be processed before all other files, including those specified on the command line |
01:09:08 | amiconn | So no more reference hackaround necessary |
01:09:49 | amiconn | DerPapst: Not all targets were affected by this problem, because the object(s) referenced by crt0 were already linked in by coincidence |
01:10:24 | DerPapst | heh. Impressive that his coincidence worked so long. |
01:10:28 | DerPapst | *this |
01:10:35 | amiconn | Afaik the problem exists for gigabeat S (hack in SVN), meizu, and logikdax (markun and linuxstb wanted to see it solved) |
01:11:09 | DerPapst | ah |
01:11:21 | amiconn | You can easily recreate it e.g. for PP by just putting b UIE at the very end of crt0-pp-bl.S, and then trying to compile a bootloader... |
01:11:54 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
01:11:56 | | Quit Sh0rtnArm3d () |
01:12:35 | amiconn | It will fail due to the missing UIE symbol, unless you also edit boot.lds for PP and replace the INPUT() with STARTUP() |
01:12:39 | | Quit zajacattack ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
01:16:12 | * | DerPapst doesn't know what UIE does and better leaves crt0-pp-bl.S alone :-P |
01:16:47 | amiconn | It's the function that is called if an exception or an unmapped interrupt occurs |
01:17:23 | amiconn | If you put that call at the very end, it won't be called at all. Furthermore, that's just a compilation test, nothing that needs to be installed on target... |
01:17:25 | DerPapst | ah. an exception handler od some sort |
01:17:34 | DerPapst | *of |
01:17:48 | amiconn | Yes, that thing that displays all those data aborts, undefined instructions etc |
01:17:50 | DerPapst | :-) |
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01:27:23 | amiconn | hmpf |
01:27:32 | * | amiconn can't test-build a beast bootloader |
01:27:45 | DerPapst | shall i? |
01:27:52 | amiconn | No multilibs-enabled arm-elf-gcc in my cygwin... |
01:28:37 | DerPapst | i have that multilibs-enabled arm-elf-gcc in my cygwin. If you give me a patch i can test |
01:32:15 | amiconn | http://pastebin.ca/1001081 |
01:35:11 | * | DerPapst builds |
01:35:33 | * | amiconn also started a bunch of builds (most of his targets) |
01:36:44 | DerPapst | does make soetimes die for you? it sits sometimes there not doing anything for hours. I have to kill it then and start again :-/ |
01:37:56 | DerPapst | worked fine and without warnings :-) |
01:38:06 | amiconn | It only does this when trying the ctrl-C a build. Sometimes this still leaves subshells or 'make' processes running, and then a subsequent 'make' becomes very confused |
01:39:05 | DerPapst | shall i try any other bootloaders? |
01:39:06 | amiconn | But as long as no zombies are running, 'make' never hangs for me, even when scheduling a bunch of builds in a long command line that needs ~3 hours to build or so |
01:39:26 | amiconn | The S is the only one in SVN that uses the hack |
01:39:52 | DerPapst | ah.. i have multiple cygwin shells open if i compile for multiple targets. maybe that's the problem |
01:40:12 | amiconn | Hmm, it shouldn't, although I never tried that |
01:40:24 | DerPapst | feels faster :-) |
01:41:00 | * | amiconn always uses make && make zip && cd ../2nd_target && make && make zip && cd ../3rd_target etc |
01:41:35 | DerPapst | i bet building in parallel works faster... |
01:41:43 | amiconn | I doubt that |
01:41:52 | amiconn | I would even expect it to be slower |
01:42:17 | * | DerPapst should test that when bored. |
01:42:34 | amiconn | hehe |
01:43:05 | amiconn | Anyway, compiling for the whole collection is a good job to run overnight |
01:44:03 | DerPapst | heh on cygwin for sure. |
01:44:11 | * | DerPapst should try a vm. |
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01:46:23 | * | amiconn should probably try microsoft sfu again |
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01:47:27 | amiconn | I even have linux VMs to choose from, but using them regularly for builds just feels cumbersome |
01:54:20 | saratoga | blackhawk is proving harder then I'd hoped to contact |
01:58:42 | scorche|sh | saratoga: why does he need to be contacted? |
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02:00 |
02:01:26 | saratoga | i'm starting with his patch for my GSOC project |
02:01:40 | saratoga | and i'd like to ask him about the build environment hes using |
02:02:09 | scorche|sh | it was different than what we use? |
02:03:04 | DerPapst | oh youre one of the lucky ones? :-) |
02:03:33 | | Quit barrywardell () |
02:04:10 | * | scorche|sh chooses to ignore DerPapst ;) |
02:04:55 | DerPapst | :-P |
02:12:06 | saratoga | scorche|sh: i don't think so, but evidently he has to use some additional libraries to link it to the linux system running on his phone |
02:12:11 | saratoga | and i'm curious about how that works |
02:12:22 | saratoga | can probably figure it out on my own, but it'd be nice to have his input |
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02:16:45 | | Quit amiconn (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The future of IRC") |
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02:55:24 | saratoga | is the define really SCREEN_PORTAIT ? |
02:55:31 | * | midgey is playing blackjack in "spanish" on his gigabeat |
02:55:42 | midgey | http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2764/dump080428205118dd3.png |
02:57:04 | | Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay) |
02:57:45 | midgey | saratoga: looks like it... :\ |
02:58:10 | midgey | defined in /firmware/export/config.h |
02:58:19 | saratoga | i'm tempted to try a global find and replace |
02:59:07 | * | midgey should start committing typo fixes to get his commit count up |
02:59:28 | saratoga | go for it! |
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03:00 |
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03:11:05 | JdGordon|zzz | saratoga: typo fixed |
03:11:09 | | Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (i=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
03:12:25 | | Quit fpletz (Remote closed the connection) |
03:13:23 | saratoga | JdGordon|zzz: i was so close to figuring out the shell script to do that |
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03:13:51 | JdGordon | hehe, simple find and replace in the text editor :) |
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03:45:12 | DerPapst | midgey: nice work! |
03:45:31 | DerPapst | <−− sleep (finally) |
04:00 |
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04:18:30 | mtrckbx | Can anybody out there advise on hoe to use the triggered recording fuctions on an iRiver H320? |
04:25:38 | * | mtrckbx says hello |
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04:29:17 | mtrckbx | Anybody on this channel? |
04:30:22 | krazykit | there are many people in this channel. it's just that the active ones may not know the answer. patience is requested :) |
04:31:42 | mtrckbx | ok krazykit, thanks. |
04:34:06 | mtrckbx | ison |
04:34:44 | mtrckbx | lusers |
04:35:28 | mtrckbx | names #rockbox |
04:35:59 | krazykit | mtrckbx, have tried searching the manual and the forums? |
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04:52:13 | mtrckbx | users |
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05:00 |
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05:52:37 | purpleposeidon | The font in doom is hard to read. :/ |
05:55:31 | Llorean | That would be id's fault, they probably didn't expect it to be on such small screens. |
05:56:05 | purpleposeidon | That id. :( |
06:00 |
06:01:55 | bronsoja | I'm having an issue with the RBUtil on ubuntu 8.04. My player is mounted at /media/Sansa e260 and i'm able to read the file contents in the file browser, but when I try to run the complete installation it stops after printing "No Sansa found". Any ideas? |
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06:05:52 | Llorean | bronsoja: Are you sure it's a v1 sansa? |
06:06:57 | bronsoja | I thought so, I can double check in the settings info. |
06:08:22 | bronsoja | in settings, the listed version is 01.02.18A |
06:09:05 | bronsoja | Could it be having a problem with the space in the mount path? |
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06:42:33 | Tuplanolla | bronsoja: it could be the space in the mount path |
06:42:34 | Romanian | Hello all. |
06:42:37 | Tuplanolla | hello |
06:42:47 | Romanian | Is anybody available to help me? |
06:43:04 | Tuplanolla | yes, just ask |
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06:44:53 | Romanian | Well, I've been having this problem with my iAudio X5L, started about 24 hours ago. It won't play sound. I can get it to load, everything works fine, but it won't play sound. It shows that it's playing, even at full volume, but nothing comes out of the speakers. Once every 20 loads or so, sound will play, and I will be able to change the volume for about 30 seconds. After this period has passed, I can't change the volume level. Happen |
06:45:20 | Romanian | I've formatted 5 times, reinstalled firmware, and checked my headphones. |
06:46:49 | Romanian | Also, the distinctive fuzzy "pop" sound when I boot it is absent. |
06:49:00 | Shaid | could be a hardware issue, something went funny inside |
06:49:20 | Shaid | like headphone socket coming loose from the board |
06:50:11 | Romanian | Nope, I've checked that. |
06:50:44 | Shaid | what happens in the original firmware? |
06:50:50 | Romanian | And if it were a hardware issue, is it possible that it plays at such odd intervals? |
06:50:57 | Romanian | I don't know; I haven't been able to re-load original firmware. |
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06:56:53 | Romanian | Damn. |
06:57:00 | Romanian | Well, how would the A3 compare to the X5L? |
06:57:30 | bronsoja | I got mine figured out. My linux inexperience showing.. when i ran rbutil with sudo, it was able to find the player. |
06:57:42 | bronsoja | thanks all. |
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07:00:37 | Lamez | hi |
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07:00:49 | Romanian | According to the player's page, you just place the *.bin in /drive/FIRMWARE/ and plug it in. When I do that, nothing happens; it just charges. Is there something else I'm missing? |
07:00:51 | Romanian | http://www.cowonamerica.com/download/iaudio_x5_jsfw.html |
07:01:43 | Lamez | hoe |
07:01:47 | Lamez | hi |
07:02:09 | Romanian | Hey. |
07:02:14 | Lamez | I need some help with rockboy |
07:02:26 | Romanian | What's wrong? |
07:02:46 | Lamez | it will not play my gbc roms on my 1g Nano |
07:03:14 | Romanian | Does it give any messages? |
07:03:55 | Lamez | nope, my file do not show up, then when I change the general settings to show all files, they show up, how come they are not supported? Would this be consider a bug? |
07:04:42 | Romanian | What's the suffix of the file's name? |
07:04:55 | Romanian | Or... extension, or whatever it's called. |
07:05:08 | Lamez | lol ok extension, gbc and gb |
07:05:26 | Romanian | hm |
07:05:28 | Romanian | which version do you have? |
07:05:57 | Lamez | the latest, I just downloaded it yesterday, I updated my old version, then I found out rockbox has its own emulator |
07:06:08 | Romanian | huh... |
07:06:11 | Romanian | sorry, I have no idea :\ |
07:06:39 | Lamez | I know, I have no idea what is wrong, I think I might try downloading a fresh copy of Rockbox, and see what happens |
07:06:46 | Romanian | Yeah, do that |
07:07:12 | Lamez | I did wanna do what the new installer was like, it could be possiable it corrupted some files, I have no idea. Well thanks any ways |
07:07:29 | Lamez | I did wanna see what the new installer was like * |
07:07:57 | Romanian | So, nobody else has any thoughts on my problem of not being able to play sound? |
07:08:09 | Romanian | Or load the original firmware, for that matter. |
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07:08:12 | Lamez | you can't play sound |
07:08:32 | Lamez | what kind of play do you have? |
07:08:36 | Lamez | player |
07:09:18 | Romanian | iAudio X5L |
07:09:23 | Romanian | it started about 24 hours ago |
07:09:29 | Romanian | I just can't play sound from it. |
07:09:35 | Lamez | oh, then I have no idea, I am a iPod guy |
07:09:42 | Romanian | Yeah. Thanks, though. |
07:09:51 | Lamez | lol, sorry..later |
07:09:55 | | Quit Lamez () |
07:09:56 | Romanian | Peace |
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08:37:34 | Dhraakellian | What's the best way to remove a theme? |
08:37:50 | amiconn | linuxstb__, markun: UIE() problem fixed :) |
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08:51:42 | markun | amiconn: thanks! |
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08:55:51 | linuxstb | amiconn: Congrats ;) |
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09:00 |
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09:10:48 | pondlife | http://miche.aqua-gero.com/rbonly/ - I wonder if this is our code, but not GPLed... |
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09:11:26 | pondlife | I meant "using our code".. |
09:12:18 | pondlife | It certainly appears to contain it |
09:12:48 | pondlife | Albeit a build from 2006 |
09:13:09 | B4gder | so you get a bootloader that can't run rockbox! ;-) |
09:13:24 | B4gder | well, recent ones |
09:13:30 | pondlife | hehe, but also a GPL-violating tagnavi.config? |
09:14:37 | pondlife | He's included the licenses.txt/copying.txt at least |
09:14:40 | pondlife | But no source |
09:14:57 | B4gder | he probably just doesn't realize his obligations |
09:15:02 | pondlife | Indeed |
09:15:12 | pondlife | Do we have a friendly letter? |
09:15:43 | B4gder | I can't remember seeing any good template recently |
09:16:00 | pondlife | Not that I'm particularly bothered, but it's good not to violate stuff. |
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09:16:51 | pondlife | B4gder: Don't suppose you had time to try any other build table formats? |
09:17:05 | B4gder | no, not yet |
09:17:13 | pondlife | Just wondering if I should read the past week's logs or not.:-) |
09:19:10 | pondlife | http://ipodlinux.org/User_talk:Miche seems to indicate that lack of source has been mentioned before - IF we're talking about the same person. |
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09:26:36 | linuxstb | My main problem with that installer is that it will just confuse users |
09:27:43 | pondlife | Indeed. |
09:27:51 | pondlife | It could at least link to us. |
09:30:31 | linuxstb | It doesn't even say when it was created, and as it doesn't support the 1g-3g, I would guess it's old. |
09:30:50 | pondlife | Seems DerPapst has already been talking to Miche's hoster - http://ipodlinux.org/User_talk:AriX |
09:31:26 | linuxstb | Hmm, files dated 25 June 2006.... |
09:33:50 | JdGordon | does anyone here use the filetype colours thing? |
09:34:05 | Llorean | I have in the past and liked it. |
09:34:12 | Llorean | I just lost my color file and haven't made a new one. |
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09:34:37 | JdGordon | wanna see if fs#7887 is still a bug, and oping to not have to setup a config for it :p |
09:35:12 | pondlife | Suggest you ask the poster for a config ? |
09:35:33 | pondlife | heh, Nico_P's already fixing it too ;p |
09:35:38 | Llorean | JdGordon: He even mentions a sample .colors file |
09:35:40 | pondlife | Dev Fight! |
09:35:53 | JdGordon | Llorean: I noticed that after posting here... going to test it |
09:35:59 | * | Llorean thought that was fixed, though |
09:36:09 | * | JdGordon rekons it problay has been |
09:36:32 | Llorean | Oh, wait. I think it was fixed, and then unfixed (due to the attempt at fixing breaking other things). And never committed. |
09:37:02 | Llorean | Why is there no setting in the menus for setting the playlist catalog folder? |
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09:37:12 | * | Llorean really doesn't like non-theme settings being hidden in .cfg-only |
09:37:44 | pondlife | Should be a context menu when a directory is selected? |
09:37:45 | JdGordon | seems fine |
09:37:58 | pondlife | "Store playlist catalogs here" |
09:38:10 | JdGordon | isnt that folder hard coded? |
09:38:22 | Llorean | No |
09:38:28 | Llorean | There's an option in the .cfg file you can set, supposedly |
09:38:37 | Llorean | At least, so claims sdoyan. Says you added it too, if I recall. |
09:39:18 | JdGordon | wouldnt surprise me if I did :p |
09:39:33 | Llorean | Somewhere between 16181 and 16195 he said. |
09:40:21 | JdGordon | 16181 |
09:40:24 | Llorean | He wants the path for saving /dynamic.m3u8 to automatically be the same as the path for your catalog. (I don't mind if you can set a default location for it to be saved, but I don't think it should be the same as your catalog, as I'd very much like to be able to continue keeping my catalog separate from my saved dynamic playlists) |
09:41:07 | | Nick GregZzZzZzZX is now known as gregzx (n=chatzill@dss148.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
09:41:28 | bertrik | hmmm, I love it when bugs get fixed by *removing* code |
09:41:48 | pondlife | Less code = less bugs, always |
09:41:50 | JdGordon | usually other bugs popup though |
09:41:57 | JdGordon | pop back up though* |
09:42:12 | pondlife | Bugs are normally caused by code :) |
09:42:28 | linuxstb | Do any targets implement more than one user time? |
09:42:32 | linuxstb | s/time/timer/ |
09:43:54 | JdGordon | Llorean: should I add the context menu items for it like the recording directories? |
09:44:15 | pondlife | That would be consistent |
09:44:20 | Llorean | JdGordon: Yeah, I think so. |
09:44:43 | Llorean | Is there some way to set the recording directory to root? |
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09:44:54 | JdGordon | I dont think there is... |
09:45:04 | JdGordon | other than manually in the .cfg |
09:45:08 | Llorean | Hm |
09:45:26 | pondlife | Should be on the "Files" context menu, I'd think. |
09:45:36 | Llorean | Well, nobody should put their playlist catalog in the root. But if the option of a configurable prefix for /dynamic.m3u8 in the save screen is added, it'd need a way to be cleared. |
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09:46:29 | JdGordon | I have no problem putting dynamic.m3u8 into the playlist catalog, and yes, it needs to be clearable |
09:47:11 | Llorean | I don't think dynamic.m3u8 should be tied to the catalog |
09:47:27 | Llorean | I have no problem with it having a configurable prefix that can be set to /playlists, but I don't think the two should be forcibly bound. |
09:47:39 | Llorean | Since that removes the possibility of duplicating what is the current behaviour. |
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09:47:55 | JdGordon | does the PC do anything more than just store the files? |
09:48:12 | JdGordon | its not like it can be used to randomly choose a playlist like dirplay can |
09:48:29 | Llorean | The PC can also be used for quickly inserting playing songs into any of a list of playlists. |
09:48:48 | JdGordon | so why wouldnt the dynamic one fit there? |
09:48:58 | Llorean | I think you're missing the point. |
09:49:10 | JdGordon | pondlife: sticking the option there would only be usable with a nasty hack... |
09:49:17 | Llorean | Right now when you try to save the dynamic one, the default path is "/dynamic.m3u8" |
09:49:34 | Llorean | He wants to change the default path to "<wherever your catalog is>/dynamic.m3u8" |
09:49:48 | JdGordon | yeah, ok... so whats the problem? |
09:49:57 | pondlife | JdGordon: A dedicated context menu isn't necessarily a nasty hack. |
09:50:06 | Llorean | Meaning that for those of us who *don't* save our playlist into the catalog folder (I keep my normal playlists in various parts of the file tree) but rather use the catalog for various types of "Favorites" lists (playlists I modify as I listen) |
09:50:16 | Llorean | we have to clear that chunk out of the path every single time. |
09:50:29 | pondlife | Although you'd proabably have to have "File View" as a sub-option |
09:50:36 | Llorean | Why not just have a second option "Set as default playlist save folder" |
09:50:58 | JdGordon | pondlife: well I was thining add it to the existing menu unless you got there through the settings menu |
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09:51:13 | pondlife | JdGordon: Now that *would* be a nasty hack |
09:51:38 | pondlife | We need more consistency in our context menus, not less... |
09:51:45 | JdGordon | Llorean: I dont think thats the usual use case though... wouldnt you want to store the dynamic playlist with the rest of them? |
09:51:59 | JdGordon | pondlife: it would go in there always, but would be very confusing imo |
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09:52:13 | pondlife | Why not allow the "Files" context menu to be the same as for any directory, plus add "File View"? |
09:52:26 | pondlife | Referring to the root, of course. |
09:52:55 | Llorean | JdGordon: For me, absolutely not. I want my playlist catalog just to have a few mixed playlists. My dynamic playlist, on the other hand, almost always goes in a rather deep subdirectory and is a result of me reorganizing files with bad names so they play in the right order. |
09:52:58 | pondlife | (i.e. no Rename/Delete) |
09:53:13 | Llorean | JdGordon: Why is having a second option a *bad* idea for this, exactly? |
09:53:51 | pondlife | Is it possible to currently create a directory in the root? |
09:53:59 | JdGordon | I'm not saying it is... |
09:54:05 | JdGordon | pondlife: yes |
09:54:22 | Llorean | JdGordon: Well not having a second option makes people who actually *like* the current behaviour have a harder time. |
09:54:24 | JdGordon | and I'm not sure how many of the regular context menu items should be shown |
09:54:54 | pondlife | Ah..Create Dir in a context menu doesn't act how I'd expect. |
09:54:55 | Llorean | It's basically shoving one group's problem onto another group, whereas a second option means both groups can be happy. |
09:55:06 | pondlife | It creates alongside the selected dir, not within it. |
09:55:14 | JdGordon | pondlife: yeah |
09:55:30 | Llorean | pondlife: Isn't the option available on files too? |
09:55:42 | JdGordon | it is a valid point though that you cant set / as a rec folder |
09:55:47 | pondlife | Yes, but I wasn't expecting that |
09:55:52 | JdGordon | or do some of the playlist stuff on the folder |
09:55:57 | pondlife | Not a biggie, just less intuitive |
09:56:02 | pondlife | (IMHO) |
09:56:17 | Llorean | Maybe you should be able to scroll up to the Folder Name at the top, and put those kinds of things in its context menu? :-P |
09:56:48 | JdGordon | no, that wouldnt work |
09:58:15 | * | JdGordon inclined to say "leave this for the devcon" :) |
09:58:57 | Llorean | Well it'd fall under "UI consistency improvements" |
09:59:02 | Llorean | Which is fast rising up the list of major concerns |
09:59:13 | pondlife | aka - the end of onplay.c ;) |
09:59:22 | JdGordon | hear hear! |
09:59:30 | pondlife | You guys are lucky I can't make devcon, I suspect... :) |
09:59:56 | * | JdGordon would love to be in the room when a dozen geeks sit around the table with a cutout of every setting and menu and try to order it to something usable :) |
10:00 |
10:00:02 | pondlife | Inconsistency gets my OCD twitching |
10:00:10 | Llorean | JdGordon: I have a printout of all of them, for all targets, as of about 6 months back. |
10:00:25 | pondlife | I think MarcGuay's layout on the wiki is good |
10:00:49 | Llorean | pondlife: Which page is this? |
10:01:02 | pondlife | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MenuLayoutDiscussion |
10:01:12 | pondlife | It's better than what we have now, anyway. |
10:01:23 | pondlife | Scroll to the bottom |
10:01:50 | pondlife | Marc has a good eye for detail |
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10:02:28 | Llorean | Hm |
10:02:28 | pondlife | The settings top level is a bit controversial, but sensible enough |
10:03:04 | Llorean | Replaygain isn't a "Sound" setting, since it's entirely dependent on the presence of metadata. |
10:03:05 | pondlife | Currently I tend to just ignore the top menu and go straight into General Settings most of the time |
10:03:16 | pondlife | It affects what you hear though |
10:03:26 | Llorean | Not necessarily |
10:03:34 | Llorean | It affects if we interpret a certain tag during playback. |
10:03:51 | Llorean | It won't affect other sounds at all (for example mpegplayer, radio, untagged recordings, etc) |
10:04:15 | pondlife | Does dithering affect the radio? |
10:04:21 | LinusN | no |
10:04:26 | Llorean | Dithering only affects digital audio, right? |
10:04:40 | pondlife | So that's not a sound setting either... ;p |
10:04:52 | JdGordon | both should go under playback? |
10:04:56 | pondlife | No |
10:04:58 | Llorean | In my opinion, yes. |
10:05:01 | pondlife | I prefer both under Sound |
10:05:10 | pondlife | But, hey, that's just my preference |
10:05:13 | Llorean | They don't affect "sound output" but rather "digital playback" |
10:05:19 | JdGordon | XML MENUS!! |
10:05:27 | pondlife | Same as stereo width ? |
10:05:34 | pondlife | Crossfeed too. |
10:05:48 | JdGordon | they do affect the sound though... |
10:05:49 | pondlife | Users think of those as affecting sound output |
10:06:11 | pondlife | i.e. there's no need to get technical on the playback/sound distinction. |
10:06:16 | Llorean | There needs to be a distinction between ones that affect "all sounds", ones that affect "files played back" and settings that actually affect *how* we play back files |
10:06:24 | pondlife | Why? |
10:06:36 | Llorean | So people don't report bugs on things not working when they're not supposed to work? |
10:06:54 | Llorean | If something is intentionally not going to work in a certain case, it should be clear to users that it's not going to work in that case. |
10:07:14 | JdGordon | in that case... I tihnk shuffle, repeat, nextdir and party mode should go into playlists |
10:07:15 | pixelma | Llorean: setting the recording directory would be "clear recording directory" which is in the recording settings, root was made the default for this case |
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10:07:28 | pondlife | Has anyone reported a bug that dithering doesn't affect their radio? ;) |
10:07:30 | Llorean | JdGordon: Yes. |
10:07:31 | pixelma | setting it to root, of course |
10:07:48 | * | pondlife jokes as he has cardboard ears. |
10:07:57 | Llorean | pondlife: Crossfeed would be more likely for someone to spot, I think |
10:08:03 | pondlife | And poor FM reception.. |
10:08:13 | Llorean | JdGordon: And auto-change directory. |
10:08:21 | JdGordon | that was next dir |
10:08:33 | pondlife | True, but I don't think there's a need to make a technical distinction here - better to make options easy to find |
10:08:46 | * | Llorean disagrees. |
10:08:47 | pondlife | If I were looking for Replaygain, I'd go into Sound Settings |
10:09:15 | Llorean | People can look in the manual if they can't find something. |
10:09:22 | JdGordon | sound - stuff that generally affects the output, playback - stuff which forcibly changes the output (?), playlists - the rest? |
10:09:26 | Llorean | They won't know to look in the manual if they assume something should work, and it seems to have no effect. |
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10:09:37 | pondlife | If they have to look in the manual, then the design is too technical |
10:10:05 | pondlife | The underlying code and design must be strict, but the UI should be easy |
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10:10:16 | JdGordon | not really sure how cuesheet and last.fm fits in that description though |
10:10:18 | Llorean | The UI should be easy, but not at the cost of misleading the user. |
10:10:43 | pondlife | Hence this is a matter for a devcon - it's ultimately our opinions |
10:10:44 | JdGordon | hmm.. maybe they should both be in playlists also? |
10:10:55 | Llorean | I think if you put "Bass" and "Crossfeed" next to each other in the menu, the user will expect both to work under identical conditions |
10:11:31 | pondlife | They don't. But they currently are alongside each other. |
10:11:35 | Llorean | Indeed |
10:11:36 | pondlife | I don't hear a bug report |
10:11:45 | pondlife | So, I don't think many users have been misled. |
10:11:48 | Llorean | And I'd been on a working assumption that Crossfeed should work on all audio because I'd never stopped to think about it. |
10:12:04 | Llorean | pondlife: What is this: "It's okay if we mislead them as long as they don't complain about it?" |
10:12:26 | pondlife | No, more like "The layout of the menu is not misleading." |
10:12:37 | Llorean | Are you saying it's obvious from the menu crossfeed won't affect the radio? |
10:12:38 | pondlife | You are reading it too technically |
10:12:47 | pondlife | No, but that's the sort of thing the manual should cover |
10:12:57 | Llorean | I thought they shouldn't need the manual.. |
10:13:03 | pondlife | The menu is about finding things, not techy stuff |
10:13:21 | pondlife | They can if they want the details, but they shouldn't care that much |
10:13:22 | Llorean | And people still find replaygain just fine under playback already |
10:13:44 | pondlife | I'm not particularly fussed. you can move it to Playback if you want, it's a wiki |
10:14:11 | pondlife | But given the choice Playback or Sound, I think of Replaygain as Sound |
10:14:24 | pondlife | Just how my inexact human brain is wired I guess |
10:14:27 | Llorean | But it doesn't affect all sound. |
10:14:30 | Llorean | Not even remotely |
10:14:37 | pondlife | I don't give a flying one |
10:15:15 | Llorean | Part of a UI's purpose is to convey information to improve the user experience. |
10:15:16 | pondlife | Like I said, change it if you want |
10:15:27 | Llorean | On their first try they *might* have to spend a couple seconds looking to find replaygain. |
10:15:41 | Llorean | But it's also quite possible they learn that its somewhere else, so it doesn't work like Bass |
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10:16:10 | pondlife | OK, so we move all the dsp stuff (digital audio only) into Playback? |
10:16:26 | Llorean | Haven't got that far yet. |
10:16:40 | Llorean | Since a lot of the playback stuff, as JdGordon mentioned, could really be playlist stuff. |
10:17:13 | Llorean | We could leave the "Playback" menu, and Sound could have under it "Digital Audio" with the DSP stuff? |
10:17:23 | pondlife | I agree with that - certainly the auto-change dir, repeat and shuffle stuff should be playlist |
10:17:35 | Llorean | Then it's in the more obvious "Sound" location, but in a submenu that makes it clear it's only for digital audio. |
10:17:54 | Llorean | That also keeps our sound menu from being too long. |
10:18:18 | pondlife | I agree |
10:18:36 | pondlife | The danger is that we end up with deep menus again - I'd prefer long over deep. |
10:18:39 | JdGordon | we dont want menus to go too deep also... |
10:18:51 | markun | will the bass and treble options be in different places on players with hw tone controls and the ones using software? |
10:19:05 | pondlife | They shouldn't be. |
10:19:39 | markun | well, the hw controls also work on radio, the sw controls don't |
10:19:45 | JdGordon | markun: the distinction was more which things affect only the digital audio.. not wheather its hardware r software controlled |
10:20:07 | * | JdGordon slow tonight |
10:20:07 | pondlife | Like I said, this is about humans, not technical details |
10:20:10 | Llorean | pondlife: I don't think deep menus are a bad things, as long as the deeper options tend toward "set once and forget" like replaygain, dithering, crossfeed, etc. |
10:20:24 | pondlife | Llorean: You may set once, others may not |
10:20:43 | Llorean | You don't set them more than once per playlist, though. |
10:20:44 | pondlife | I change stuff with .cfg files mainly, but certainly change crossfeed often |
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10:21:11 | pondlife | Either way, one of our current menu problems is too much depth, IMHO |
10:21:16 | Llorean | the whole point of crossfeed, arguably, is that it shouldn't be changed unless you change output hardware. |
10:21:36 | pondlife | Yes, switching from car to headphones, in my case |
10:21:57 | Llorean | In which case you're not really changing but moving between two presets, which is perfect for .cfgs |
10:22:05 | pondlife | Indeed |
10:22:11 | markun | Llorean: also for binaural recordings |
10:22:15 | Llorean | I really mean "thinks you're more likely to adjust often, and to a variety of values should be as shallow as possible" |
10:22:37 | Llorean | markun: binaural recordings should be preprocessed. :-P |
10:22:41 | Llorean | *things |
10:22:46 | pondlife | Beatles stuff too... |
10:23:29 | markun | Llorean: are we talking about the same thing? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording |
10:23:32 | Llorean | But I think the real problem isn't "deep menus" as much as just poor positioning of things in general |
10:23:45 | Llorean | Submenus increase the button press cost by 1 for items within them. |
10:24:04 | Llorean | markun: Not in the slightest. Apparently my head is not functioning today |
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10:24:13 | pondlife | Yes, but you can't see them until you go in... so searching can be slower. |
10:24:27 | Llorean | pondlife: I think the real problem is that the main "categories" aren't obvious enough for what's in them, and often the submenus themselves don't have obvious enough names. |
10:24:32 | pondlife | Yes |
10:24:45 | pondlife | "General Settings" anyone? :/ |
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10:24:54 | Llorean | So a "Digital Audio" submenu, no matter how deep, wouldn't be bad as long as the chain of prior menus were all obvious enough |
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10:25:17 | pondlife | I don't think it's necessary to separate out Digital Audio |
10:25:27 | pondlife | Technical, not human |
10:25:37 | Llorean | Humans make stupid assumptions. |
10:25:41 | pondlife | Yes |
10:25:43 | Llorean | Act to decrease that likelihood. |
10:25:50 | pondlife | No, let them be human |
10:25:55 | Llorean | Why? |
10:26:17 | pondlife | Because it'll make the UI easier to use. You can change the UI, not the user |
10:26:46 | Llorean | How is "A long list of sound settings that may confuse the user by seeming to arbitrarily not work when they should" easier to use than "A list of sound settings with a subcategory Digital Audio"? |
10:26:46 | pondlife | This is about easy, not educational |
10:26:49 | Llorean | What is "easier"? |
10:26:52 | JdGordon | there is also an assumption that our users arnt that stupid... |
10:26:53 | Llorean | Why is it "easier" |
10:26:56 | Llorean | They're both a list of settings. |
10:26:57 | JdGordon | we dont have to dumb down everything |
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10:27:36 | pondlife | I don't think it's dumbing down, but to me "Digital Audio" is (a) irrelevant and (b) "this is a DAP, so it does Digital Audio" |
10:27:46 | pondlife | i.e. I don't think "not radio" |
10:27:47 | JdGordon | long lists are harder to process because the brain doesnt handle more than 7-8 things well |
10:27:55 | pondlife | 7 is about right |
10:27:59 | Llorean | pondlife: so DSP then? |
10:28:11 | pondlife | Better, but you've just put a TLA in |
10:28:12 | JdGordon | pondlife: 100% on that point though |
10:28:12 | Llorean | How is it "irrelevant"? |
10:28:21 | pondlife | It's just sound |
10:28:28 | Llorean | No, it's not "just sound" |
10:28:34 | Llorean | If it were "just sound" it's work on all sound. |
10:28:43 | pondlife | I mean, from a user's perspective - they don't care if ir's digital or analogue |
10:28:46 | pondlife | it's |
10:28:50 | JdGordon | it is.. anything coming out of the headphone jack is "digital audio" as far as most users understand |
10:29:00 | pondlife | They really don't care, they just want to sort out the volume |
10:29:15 | Llorean | Yes, and if a user then encounters things in Digital Audio NOT working, they might just ask "why did they make a distinction" rather than simply filing a bug report |
10:29:24 | Llorean | The whole point is to MAKE some of them care. |
10:29:32 | JdGordon | you cant change users! |
10:29:37 | Llorean | The fact that a bug report on this hasn't been filed yet just means that we have a small user base. |
10:29:49 | Llorean | JdGordon: You can't change users, but you CAN choose not to intentionally hide information from them |
10:29:58 | pondlife | They might equally well start reporting bugs where none exist, and still not think or get the distinction. |
10:30:01 | Llorean | Intelligent users, of which there are plenty, will still get things wrong if they aren't provide with any clues at all |
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10:30:18 | pondlife | Anyway, like I said - update the wiki if you can improve it. |
10:30:22 | Llorean | pondlife: So your point of view is "you can't prevent ALL bug reports, so take no action to reduce the number" |
10:30:29 | pondlife | No, don't be silly |
10:30:39 | pondlife | I'm not arguing with you again. |
10:30:41 | Llorean | You said "They still might not get the distinction" |
10:30:48 | JdGordon | is there a nicer term for post-proccessing we could use? |
10:30:54 | pondlife | They might or might not |
10:30:59 | Llorean | Indeed |
10:31:04 | LinusN | Audio Processing |
10:31:05 | pondlife | I doubt mrs pondlife would |
10:31:12 | Llorean | And do you agree that putting them in a category is a clue that will improve the odds of SOME users getting it? |
10:31:14 | pondlife | She's my target user |
10:31:15 | Llorean | By providing more information? |
10:31:18 | JdGordon | dinner... bbl |
10:31:42 | pondlife | Users don't generally care, they just want to find things |
10:31:52 | pondlife | We do, because we are technically minded |
10:32:30 | pondlife | But that doesn't make for a good UI for the non-computer-literate (the ultimate test case for a UI) |
10:32:40 | Llorean | 1) We don't make it for the users first. 2) Plenty of them would catch the distinction. 3) Those who "don't care" won't care that there's one more submenu anyway |
10:32:54 | Llorean | I refuse to accept that we're designing Rockbox for the computer illiterate. |
10:32:58 | Llorean | If we were, 95% of it should be gone. |
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10:33:29 | pondlife | (1) I agree, but that's no excuse for bad UI (2) True (3) They might not look in the submenu and miss something useful |
10:33:47 | Llorean | How is "Distinguishing options that don't work the same" bad UI? |
10:33:49 | pondlife | But, as I said 20 times now, I don't care that much - so go and update the wiki. |
10:33:50 | pondlife | Bye |
10:34:08 | pondlife | You win again, I have to work |
10:34:19 | * | Llorean hates the idea of intentionally hiding useful information, just because "some users won't care about it" |
10:35:13 | * | gevaerts doesn;t think post-proccessing is useful, since he can't hear the difference anyway |
10:35:23 | * | gevaerts runs away, after replacing a ; by a ' |
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10:57:33 | pixelma | Llorean: menu depth is also a problem, because the submenu isn't always 1 "click" away if you have to move up/down a list before and have to remember the name of the next submenu (or be able to find it easily) - a good example is probably the "Theme Settings" submenu vs. "General Settings > Display" (which is also a problem of old habits). |
10:58:13 | pixelma | Another example: sometimes it bothers me that I need to enter submenu after submenu on my Ondio if I just want to change shuffle or repeat mode and start thinking "when will I be at the right place?" |
10:58:35 | Llorean | pixelma: True, *but* the options the submenu represents would also have to be that far down in the list too, anyway... |
10:58:59 | pixelma | I'm not saying it's bad in general to establish some categories but it needs to be well balanced - which is a *hard* thing to do (I know) |
10:59:05 | Llorean | I agree with that |
10:59:39 | Llorean | I was in the process of typing more or less the same idea |
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11:06:20 | B4gder | do you prefer a tshirt or a polo shirt? |
11:06:51 | * | DerPapst votes for t-shirt |
11:07:22 | * | Llorean rather likes polo shirts |
11:07:52 | * | gevaerts wants both :) |
11:07:54 | * | pixelma would prefer a polo shirt a bit |
11:08:05 | Llorean | In my limited observation I get treated better at restaurants wearing the shirt from two years back than when wearing the shirt from last year. I think it makes me look like I have money to leave better tips. |
11:08:10 | Llorean | :-P |
11:08:24 | B4gder | haha |
11:09:03 | B4gder | polo shirts are more expensive in general but I'm probably not going for the coffee mugs this year so we could spend some more on the shirts |
11:09:49 | B4gder | (it's not really a fixed limit, just what we feel spending on this) |
11:10:03 | Llorean | I figured, considering recent income boosts. ;) |
11:10:28 | B4gder | well, the shirts are sponsored by Haxx |
11:10:33 | Llorean | Ah |
11:10:50 | B4gder | the fund will be used to pay participants that go to devcon |
11:11:00 | B4gder | at least a little sponsorship |
11:11:35 | B4gder | we did 100 euro/person last year but we've discussed a more advanced distribution this year |
11:12:32 | B4gder | since some people won't even pay 100 euro to get there ;-) |
11:13:50 | Llorean | Yeah, a small amount of weighting probably wouldn't hurt |
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11:14:48 | B4gder | I think I'll come up with something |
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11:26:36 | YAVI | HI |
11:27:24 | YAVI | One question, anyone has found how to increase the ipod volume when using it on a dock? |
11:27:49 | * | GodEater used the volume controls on the dock |
11:27:55 | GodEater | this appeared to work nicely |
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11:28:27 | YAVI | no, not on mine |
11:28:47 | YAVI | on the dock the volume does not do anything |
11:29:01 | YAVI | it has a line level, but cannot be changed |
11:29:11 | Llorean | Does the dock itself have volume controls? |
11:29:29 | YAVI | yes, but only by remote |
11:29:41 | YAVI | and it does not work when it is with rockbox |
11:30:06 | YAVI | just in the apple software |
11:30:11 | Llorean | Well then there's really nothing you can do right now. |
11:30:43 | YAVI | ahamm |
11:31:14 | GodEater | I was surprised when it worked for mine actually, I didn't realise quite how simple some docks were. Pleasantly surprised ;) |
11:31:35 | Llorean | It's strange, though. The iPod outputs at line level, so any volume adjustment *any* dock does *should* just be between the dock and its controls. |
11:31:50 | Llorean | Unless somehow the volume adjustment is communicated to the iPod and then back down to the dock. |
11:31:58 | GodEater | don't think so |
11:32:01 | Llorean | GodEater: Have you tried, in AppleOS, adjusting the volume on the dock using the scroll wheel? |
11:32:10 | YAVI | GodEater: may be right |
11:32:17 | GodEater | Llorean: not possible, I have no music accesible in AppleOS |
11:32:21 | Llorean | Ah |
11:32:22 | YAVI | some docks can modify the line volume |
11:32:26 | Llorean | It would be *really* strange anyway |
11:32:31 | GodEater | yes |
11:32:32 | YAVI | not the ipod volume |
11:32:45 | GodEater | YAVI: why is that a good idea ? |
11:32:51 | YAVI | it s like a pre-amp |
11:33:03 | * | GodEater can't see the point |
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11:33:29 | YAVI | I don't get you GodEater |
11:33:37 | YAVI | what did you say is a good idea? |
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11:33:49 | Llorean | The whole point of a line-out is to be at line level for something else to amplify it. |
11:33:54 | GodEater | exactly |
11:34:34 | YAVI | but the problem is that the ipod has a line level lower than other things such as cds etc |
11:34:52 | * | GodEater backs out of the conversation slowly |
11:35:07 | YAVI | the idea in some docks is to preamlify the ipod line to be the same as the rest of inputs of your amplifier |
11:35:29 | Llorean | YAVI: Rockbox doesn't run on the dock. |
11:35:41 | GodEater | I still don't see what that has to do with the volume on the ipod |
11:35:54 | Llorean | If the dock has an amp in it, it should be irrelevant what firmware is on the iPod, since the iPod still outputs *to* the dock at line level. |
11:36:36 | YAVI | Llorean: the problem is that my dock does not amp the line level, so I can do nothing about it |
11:36:49 | GodEater | then I would suggest your dock is not doing what it should |
11:36:50 | Llorean | YAVI: If your dock has volume controls, it *should* |
11:36:52 | YAVI | the one of GodEater may have it and he can manage it |
11:37:07 | Llorean | The iPod volume does not adjust the line out from the dock connector. |
11:37:51 | YAVI | Llorean: that is true, what I mean is that some docks amplify the line level not the ipod volume |
11:38:11 | Llorean | I don't understand what you're asking then. |
11:38:16 | GodEater | nor me |
11:38:20 | YAVI | that is to say it does it itself, it does not modify the ipod volume itself |
11:38:38 | YAVI | and mine does not do it :( |
11:38:52 | YAVI | so i canÂŽt change the volume but from the amplifier |
11:38:56 | Llorean | What you have is (iPod at line level) -> (dock, which may do stuff). In both Rockbox and AppleOS the iPod is at line level. |
11:39:04 | YAVI | and the line level is lower than from the cd |
11:39:15 | GodEater | I don't see what that has to do with anything |
11:39:24 | YAVI | yeah Llorean |
11:39:32 | Llorean | So what does this have to do with Rockbox? |
11:39:34 | YAVI | what I wanted to know |
11:39:54 | YAVI | was if somehow line level could be modified |
11:40:05 | Llorean | It will cause clipping |
11:40:11 | Llorean | The line level is at 0dB, it really is a "line level" |
11:40:29 | YAVI | but not the same as other devices |
11:40:49 | YAVI | I do not know much about electric matters |
11:41:04 | Llorean | The other devices you have may be pre-amping. |
11:41:13 | YAVI | but I think others are at 1v and this one is something like 0.7v?Âż |
11:41:50 | Llorean | This doesn't remove the fact that you will encounter clipping if you try to increase the output gain on the line out. |
11:42:09 | YAVI | aham |
11:42:24 | YAVI | so it is a hardware "problem" |
11:42:47 | YAVI | that If I could modify by software would cause clipping? |
11:43:12 | * | GodEater would suggest just buying a better dock |
11:43:35 | YAVI | it is not a really big problem anyway |
11:43:44 | YAVI | it is just that if i forgget about it |
11:43:51 | YAVI | and play a cd for example |
11:44:04 | YAVI | and forget to modify the volume at the amp |
11:44:12 | YAVI | it would be too high |
11:44:26 | YAVI | its about 1/3 slower than in other devices |
11:44:31 | gevaerts | YAVI: please try to write entire sentences on a line |
11:44:35 | YAVI | sorry lower |
11:44:59 | YAVI | Ok gevaerts sorry :( |
11:46:19 | YAVI | GodEater: , and can you use your remote from the dock to change the songs, etc using rockbox? |
11:47:21 | Llorean | No, Rockbox can't yet properly communicate with the dock. |
11:47:56 | YAVI | aham, so you are working with it? |
11:48:33 | Llorean | Not much work is being done in that area, though there has been a small start. |
11:48:45 | YAVI | good to know |
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12:18:35 | GodEater | the dock I was using: a) wasn't mine, and b) didn't have a remote |
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12:33:35 | soap | Chronon, in regards to http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=16653.0 |
12:34:05 | soap | I don't have time, I'm out the door - might want to mention the fact accessory power is now turned off by default and yadda yadda yadda |
12:34:12 | soap | (if you don't mind) |
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13:16:12 | Nico_P | bertrik: your ata_disk_is_active sim stub looks fine to me |
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13:31:22 | bertrik | Nico_P: not too complicated? I could have just let it always return true or false |
13:32:39 | bertrik | but not it returns true on the first call and false on the rest, to vary it a bit and possibly make other code that depends on it touch some different paths |
13:32:55 | bertrik | not->now |
13:42:23 | amiconn | ata_:disk_is_active should go away |
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13:44:30 | JdGordon_ | yes and no |
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13:45:12 | JdGordon_ | it cant go away while there are things using the callnack to signal other threads |
13:45:55 | JdGordon_ | unless we add a keep_disk_active() count like boost does? |
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13:46:42 | amiconn | ? |
13:47:11 | amiconn | ata_disk_is_active is polled by some stuff which should really be converted to using the callback |
13:47:43 | amiconn | Stuff polling ata_disk_is_active often fails on flash targets |
13:48:40 | JdGordon | yes, but playback (not actually sure if its still doing this) tells its thread to rebuffer in the callback, but the buffering doesnt happen untill the playback thread is active again and by then it may not be spinning still |
13:48:54 | JdGordon | it is abused alot though |
13:48:56 | B4gder | but providing a sim version instead of #ifdefs is generally a good idea! |
13:49:11 | | Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!") |
13:50:16 | amiconn | B4gder: I agree, if it's something that's supposed to stay. However, for something that's supposed to go away it's just wasted time imho |
13:50:25 | B4gder | true |
13:50:38 | B4gder | but that assumes someone is going to fix the problem in the near future |
13:50:50 | * | JdGordon has nothing better to do :p |
13:52:23 | JdGordon | there does need to be some way to stop the disk from spining down if its removed though... |
13:54:37 | JdGordon | playlist.c is the only core apps/ code using it except recorder/peakmeter and recording (both only once, and I'm not sure howd you'd remove it from there) |
13:55:36 | JdGordon | its probably fine to keep in firmware/ |
13:55:59 | amiconn | There is. ata_disk_is_active() has nothing to do with that, it's a monitor |
13:56:11 | amiconn | The function to keep the disk spinning is ata_spin() |
13:57:03 | JdGordon | you cant guarentee the thread you want to run will happen before the next spindown... |
13:57:14 | JdGordon | although, I guess it would keep calling spin and eventually work itself out |
13:58:28 | JdGordon | the main thing is battery_bench is misusing the call... |
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14:04:28 | JdGordon | well, I've removed the call from playlist.c, not really how how to make sure it does stkov ata though |
14:14:53 | | Quit mf0102 (Remote closed the connection) |
14:16:32 | JdGordon | amiconn: http://pastebin.ca/1001695 but only have my e200 so dunno how to test it properly |
14:22:52 | | Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
14:25:14 | linuxstb | B4gder, markun: I don't know if he's mentioned it, but gevaerts noticed that the USB controllers in the S5L8700X (Meizu), TCC77x (DAX, Sansa M200) and TCC780x (D2) are all identical. |
14:25:25 | | Quit Synergy6 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
14:25:42 | B4gder | wow |
14:26:08 | gevaerts | So this gives us a major problem : what name should the driver get ? |
14:27:07 | * | linuxstb thinks that B4gder, as the only person owning two different chips is the ideal person to write this driver ;) |
14:27:16 | B4gder | haha |
14:27:24 | JdGordon | we should be so lucky if the only problem is the filename :p |
14:27:43 | | Quit homielowe () |
14:28:15 | bertrik | they're probably all base on the same USB controller hardware design, so use the name of the hardware design (if there is one) |
14:28:40 | linuxstb | bertrik: Which is what? ;) |
14:29:34 | gevaerts | JdGordon: it's probably not the only problem, but it's impossible to write code without deciding on a filename ;) |
14:30:18 | pondlife | Could we perhaps configure Flyspray to default the Severity to Low, rather than NULL (or whatever it is)..? |
14:30:33 | * | bertrik googles for a name |
14:30:47 | pondlife | I guess the problem is that normal users don't have permission to set Severity. |
14:31:20 | Llorean | That's intentional |
14:31:31 | pondlife | Yes, but the corrupt display isn't, surely. |
14:31:46 | PaulJam | JdGordon: you closed FS #7887. but i can still reproduce it here in the uisim (r17290). the reproduction changes a little bit, because the default theme now uses a backdrop and 4 |
14:32:01 | pondlife | E.g. http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8913 |
14:32:19 | PaulJam | ... a gradient lineselector. |
14:32:19 | JdGordon | PaulJam: and 4 ? |
14:32:28 | pondlife | (and "Notice: Undefined index: 0 in /usr/share/flyspray/htdocs/includes/class.flyspray.php on line 344") |
14:33:07 | Llorean | I don't have a corrupt display, but I do see that notice. |
14:33:17 | JdGordon | PaulJam: ah nuts, sorry, missread the report, ill reopen it |
14:33:18 | Llorean | I've only been seeing that recently though |
14:33:29 | pondlife | Since the last upgrade, I suspect |
14:33:48 | pondlife | The corrupt display here is at the Comments/Related Tasks tab. |
14:33:49 | Llorean | But I don't see changing the default severity as really being a fix. |
14:33:57 | pondlife | Why not default to Low ? |
14:34:02 | Llorean | No corruption here. |
14:34:07 | pondlife | It's currently defaulting to something invalid |
14:34:38 | Llorean | It'd be nice if there was an actual "unset" value. |
14:34:41 | pondlife | At least set up a value for "Unknown" and use that |
14:34:43 | pondlife | :) |
14:35:04 | Llorean | I don't like "low" personally because that's actually setting a value to it before anyone's looked at it. |
14:35:36 | pondlife | True. not that we use severity. And the other fields have defaults too. |
14:35:54 | Llorean | We use severity from time to time. |
14:36:05 | pondlife | Yes, each release mainly ;) |
14:36:19 | bertrik | gevaerts: do you have a datasheet or register description for the USB controller in those players? |
14:36:34 | Llorean | pondlife: Well, it's still better than seeing "Critical" feature requests from users. |
14:36:36 | JdGordon | if(!j % 100 && !j) will never be true will it? |
14:36:44 | Llorean | pondlife: But I think Zagor is the only person who can fix it. |
14:36:56 | gevaerts | bertrik: google for TCC77X.pdf |
14:37:03 | JdGordon | that is with j incrementing and always positive... |
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14:45:18 | mtrckbx | Can anybody on the channel help with this issue? I have recently loaded rockbox on six H320s. All went well except for one of them. When I turn this unit on I see the rockbox boot information then the Rockbox splashscreen briefly, then the unit goes dark. When I first loaded rockbox onto this unit I had better success and I have a feeling that I may have somehow set the backlight option to OFF. Could this be the |
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14:46:19 | LambdaCalculus37 | mtrckbx: You cut off. |
14:46:30 | LambdaCalculus37 | Does bootloader USB mode work, at least? |
14:47:07 | n1s | mtrckbx: if you hold down REC while booting the settings will reset |
14:47:07 | mtrckbx | Yes, bootloader USB works, although I do not know what that mode does. |
14:47:26 | LambdaCalculus37 | It allows you to access the hard drive in case something goes wrong. |
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14:51:54 | * | JdGordon doesnt see a clean way to make batt_bench use ata notify :/ |
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14:55:31 | mtrckbx | LambdaCalculus3 and n1s, I can boot to the iRiver firmware using the (hold down REC mode), but this does not allow me to boot the rockbox firmware. Lambda, what is your advice using the USB bootloader? |
14:55:40 | JdGordon | if(!j % 100 && !j) should be if(!j % 100 && j) shouldnt it? |
14:56:04 | JdGordon | battaery_bench.c:326 |
14:56:09 | n1s | mtrckbx: then you are holding down rec too early, try pressing it right before you see the splash |
14:56:29 | PaulJam | mtrckbx: in usb mode you can edit the file .rockbox/config.cfg and remove the line with the backlight setting |
14:56:49 | * | LambdaCalculus37 was just about to say that, too :) |
14:58:15 | mtrckbx | Thnaks LambdaCal,n1s,PaulJam, that did it. I was holding down REC at the wrong time. |
14:58:58 | LambdaCalculus37 | mtrckbx: Enjoy the irivers! :) |
15:00 |
15:00:49 | mtrckbx | Thanks, I have six for a scietific study so I may not get to use them for fun. But I am beginning to think I might get might own at some point. |
15:01:57 | * | LambdaCalculus37 wishes he had six H320s |
15:02:36 | JdGordon | think of the tower you could make! |
15:04:07 | | Quit mtrckbx ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
15:04:17 | LambdaCalculus37 | :) |
15:04:20 | * | JdGordon is now convinced that line is rotten |
15:08:20 | JdGordon | although.. it has to work or it infinite loops?! |
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15:21:07 | markun | linuxstb: nice found about the shared USB code! |
15:21:24 | markun | ah, that was gevaerts :) |
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15:29:29 | linuxstb | markun: What's the status of your Meizu work? |
15:31:39 | markun | linuxstb: I wrote a test-firmware but it the meizu refuzes to flash it |
15:31:47 | markun | will try to find out why tomorrow |
15:31:59 | linuxstb | So you haven't run any code yet? |
15:32:04 | markun | nope |
15:32:47 | markun | what's the status of the other players with the same USB controller? |
15:33:21 | markun | could someone start adapting the USB driver for one of them? |
15:35:40 | gevaerts | markun: I plan to have a go at a driver somewhere this week |
15:36:49 | markun | gevaerts: do you have any of those players besides the meizu? |
15:37:35 | gevaerts | markun: no. I'm counting on you to be able to test the driver soon ;) |
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15:44:42 | preglow | gevaerts: what targets do you have these days? |
15:46:04 | gevaerts | preglow: h320, f20, ipod5g, c250, m6, soon h120 and f60 |
15:47:14 | LambdaCalculus37 | gevaerts: Get a Gigabeast and you'll be unstoppable! :) |
15:47:14 | markun | and when did you start to run rockbox? |
15:48:16 | gevaerts | markun: 2008-01-05 |
15:48:23 | markun | :) |
15:49:12 | GodEater | the bug has bitten him *hard* |
15:49:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | *Very* hard. |
15:49:41 | preglow | gevaerts: not bad :P |
15:49:59 | * | preglow likes his h120 |
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15:55:53 | * | markun hasn't used his h120 in ages |
15:58:03 | * | gevaerts asked his first question on #rockbox on january 7th |
16:00 |
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16:05:03 | | Part LinusN |
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16:08:43 | preglow | my h120 still is the player i use the most |
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16:26:57 | MaCkenzIe | hello |
16:27:28 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: Question... ever take a look at the Sansa e100 series? |
16:27:59 | LambdaCalculus37 | They look a bit similar to the m200 series, except that the body layout is more squared off, and it has an SD expansion slot. |
16:28:00 | MaCkenzIe | can i ask something about rockbox? |
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16:28:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | MaCkenzIe: Yes. |
16:28:31 | MaCkenzIe | if i install it on my ipod |
16:28:39 | MaCkenzIe | all songs will delete |
16:28:41 | MaCkenzIe | ? |
16:28:46 | Llorean_Web | amiconn (and Bagder / B4gder perhaps): Around what time should I aim to arrive, if flights are flexible enough? |
16:28:53 | LambdaCalculus37 | MaCkenzIe: First question: Which iPod model? |
16:29:02 | MaCkenzIe | 5.5g |
16:29:17 | LambdaCalculus37 | Plastic front? |
16:29:25 | MaCkenzIe | yes... |
16:29:45 | LambdaCalculus37 | Okay, just making sure. Lots of people are confusing the iPod video with the iPod Classic. |
16:29:53 | LambdaCalculus37 | Anyway, no, your songs will not be deleted. |
16:30:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | But any songs purchased from iTunes won't work due to DRM. |
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16:30:29 | gevaerts | LambdaCalculus37: don't forget the HFS/FAT issue |
16:30:35 | MaCkenzIe | if i change my mind can i uninstall rockbox to its previous original firmware? |
16:30:40 | preglow | has any work been done on the austriamicrosystems socs? |
16:30:55 | GodEater | MaCkenzIe: you can, but you can also dual boot when you've installed Rockbox, so there's not much reason to uninstall it |
16:31:01 | | Quit Llorean_Web (Client Quit) |
16:31:19 | MaCkenzIe | dual boot ? |
16:31:29 | GodEater | start either the original firmware, or rockbox |
16:31:32 | GodEater | at the flick of a switch |
16:31:33 | MaCkenzIe | have both firmwares |
16:31:51 | GodEater | correct |
16:31:51 | MaCkenzIe | yes |
16:32:14 | MaCkenzIe | i must do sth in order t do this? |
16:32:16 | GodEater | do you use your ipod from a PC, or a Mac ? |
16:32:25 | MaCkenzIe | windows |
16:32:29 | GodEater | that's good then |
16:32:55 | GodEater | in order to use the Apple firmware when you've installed Rockbox, you just flick the hold switch when you turn the ipod on |
16:32:57 | GodEater | it's very simple |
16:33:37 | MaCkenzIe | i will install rockbox as the manual in tha site & it will work in dual mode..? |
16:33:42 | GodEater | yes |
16:35:06 | MaCkenzIe | i turn the hold swith before the rockbox install..? |
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16:36:32 | GodEater | no - leave it alone during the install |
16:37:59 | LambdaCalculus37 | gevaerts: Of course. :) |
16:38:22 | MaCkenzIe | if i want to return my ipod in original (with not rockbox & with all the songs-playlists.... that i have now ) what can i do? |
16:44:20 | GodEater | there are uninstall instructions in the manual too |
16:44:51 | MaCkenzIe | ok |
16:45:15 | MaCkenzIe | thanks for the help |
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16:58:09 | saratoga | preglow: theres a patch for the AS SOC on file spray, but i don't know how useful it is |
16:59:07 | LambdaCalculus37 | saratoga: What's the FS #? |
16:59:15 | * | LambdaCalculus37 remembers coming across it but forgot |
16:59:59 | saratoga | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8843 |
17:00 |
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17:03:34 | * | LambdaCalculus37 looks through the patch |
17:04:18 | LambdaCalculus37 | It's against a slightly older SVN trunk. |
17:04:53 | saratoga | theres a lot there, but without a way to run code on any AMS targets, its not quite useful yet |
17:06:42 | LambdaCalculus37 | I haven't got any AMS targets, so I can't do anything with it. |
17:07:20 | LambdaCalculus37 | Although if I do see a Sansa Clip for dirt cheap, I'd get one. |
17:09:04 | saratoga | the clip doesn't have any SDRAM, so its not worth getting unless you like the retail firmware |
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17:09:54 | LambdaCalculus37 | Bah... the Clip is out of the question, then. |
17:11:41 | gevaerts | Of course, if you like a _real_ challenge... ;) |
17:12:50 | LambdaCalculus37 | gevaerts: A _real_ challenge would be porting Rockbox to the Rio PMP300. :P |
17:13:11 | scorche|sh | spoke to jott...he licensed his code under GPL v2.0 or later...and regarding if he used any other code in the patch: |
17:13:41 | scorche|sh | <jott> atleast the core routines are mine, the font generation/converter is based of a freetype provided example <scorche|sh> any license on that code? <jott> hm it's basically just initalization stuff of the freetype engine.. <jott> oh and it contains parts of the rockbox 1-bit font converter |
17:14:30 | scorche|sh | (this is regarding the antialiasing patch if there were questions..) |
17:17:00 | gevaerts | LambdaCalculus37: is there hardware information somewhere ? |
17:17:20 | LambdaCalculus37 | gevaerts: For the PMP300? No idea. |
17:17:50 | gevaerts | LambdaCalculus37: then asking for a port is a bit useless, isn't it ? ;) |
17:18:04 | LambdaCalculus37 | gevaerts: Yes, it is. ;) |
17:18:30 | LambdaCalculus37 | Besides, what kind of nutcase would even attempt a port like that? |
17:19:33 | * | gevaerts looks around |
17:20:23 | MaCkenzIe | GodEater |
17:20:29 | MaCkenzIe | install done |
17:20:32 | gevaerts | Let's give one to linuxstb :) |
17:20:33 | MaCkenzIe | but |
17:20:48 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb had a PMP300 at one point. :) |
17:20:56 | LambdaCalculus37 | But I digress... |
17:21:05 | MaCkenzIe | tha songs dont play |
17:21:24 | LambdaCalculus37 | MaCkenzIe: Are the songs purchased from the iTunes store? |
17:21:32 | MaCkenzIe | no |
17:21:36 | MaCkenzIe | why? |
17:21:36 | LambdaCalculus37 | What format? |
17:21:43 | MaCkenzIe | mp3 |
17:21:47 | MaCkenzIe | mp4 |
17:21:56 | | Quit Davidz () |
17:22:12 | LambdaCalculus37 | Rockbox will not, and never will, play any DRM-encumbered songs. |
17:22:25 | LambdaCalculus37 | That's why I asked if the songs you're trying to play are DRMed. |
17:22:26 | MaCkenzIe | what is that? |
17:22:34 | Synergy6 | Rights protected |
17:22:41 | LambdaCalculus37 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management |
17:23:03 | LambdaCalculus37 | MaCkenzIe: Put it mildly: DRM = no rights for you, the consumer. |
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17:24:48 | MaCkenzIe | so i must uninstall rockbox in order to ply my songs? |
17:25:02 | MaCkenzIe | in original firmware |
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17:25:24 | sansa240user | can i load rockbox on a sansa 240? |
17:25:36 | sansa240user | not having any luck |
17:25:52 | sansa240user | c240 |
17:25:57 | gevaerts | Is it a v1? |
17:26:02 | sansa240user | yes |
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17:26:33 | sansa240user | 01.01.05p |
17:26:42 | sansa240user | 1gig |
17:27:15 | gevaerts | Is it in MSC mode ? |
17:27:29 | sansa240user | how do u get to msc mode? |
17:27:38 | Synergy6 | Does rockbox have a prefered music manager software? |
17:27:47 | gevaerts | Synergy6: no. Use whatever you like |
17:28:32 | Synergy6 | Are players set us as clean disk space? |
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17:29:02 | MaCkenzIe | is there a way to play my songs on rockbox? |
17:29:08 | gevaerts | sansa240user: I seem to remember vaguely that 01.01.05 is one of the versions that don't have msc mode, but I'm not sure. |
17:29:14 | pixelma | the 01.01.05 firmware doesn't have a MSC mode setting, there are a few possibilities to still get it there (there's a trick which involves holding buttons, using linux seems to work too or downgrading the firmware) |
17:29:43 | gevaerts | Synergy6: I'm not sure what you mean |
17:29:55 | sansa240user | ok thx |
17:30:02 | sansa240user | i will look it up |
17:30:03 | Synergy6 | Like, storage space |
17:30:05 | pixelma | sansa240user: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaC200Port#No_MSC_Mode |
17:30:13 | sansa240user | thx |
17:30:13 | Synergy6 | As opposed to requiring specific software to manage music |
17:31:03 | gevaerts | Synergy6: ah, ok. Rockbox always uses normal USB storage access, and can play files from anywhere on the disk |
17:31:18 | Synergy6 | Oki, ty |
17:31:26 | gevaerts | MaCkenzIe: if your music is not DRMed, rockbox should play it fine |
17:32:34 | MaCkenzIe | i fixed it |
17:32:44 | MaCkenzIe | in the database |
17:33:00 | MaCkenzIe | now its ok |
17:33:11 | gevaerts | MaCkenzIe: also, please try to keep sentences on one line |
17:33:28 | MaCkenzIe | ok sorry |
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17:34:54 | MaCkenzIe | can't i have the playlists i have on itunes |
17:34:57 | MaCkenzIe | ? |
17:37:04 | LambdaCalculus37 | Playlists in Rockbox are in the .m3u format. |
17:37:26 | LambdaCalculus37 | So they need to be converted first. |
17:38:07 | MaCkenzIe | yes . can i have the plylists as on itunes..? |
17:38:21 | MaCkenzIe | shown on rockbox |
17:39:06 | sansa240user | anyone know where to get old firmware? |
17:39:45 | LambdaCalculus37 | There's a link on the wiki to various versions of the Sansa c200 firmware. |
17:40:23 | LambdaCalculus37 | Umm... oh crap! |
17:40:29 | * | LambdaCalculus37 sees the link is dead |
17:40:49 | LambdaCalculus37 | They were located here: http://files.zefie.com/PMP/sansa/c200/firmware/1.01.00/ but the link seems to be dead at the moment. |
17:41:07 | sansa240user | ya i will try it |
17:41:09 | gevaerts | http://files.zefie.com/PMP/sansa/c200/v1/firmware/1.01.00/ |
17:41:34 | LambdaCalculus37 | gevaerts to the rescue! :) |
17:42:18 | sansa240user | its dead i will google and see if i can find a diff link i would really like to use rockbox on here |
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17:42:32 | gevaerts | sansa240user: the one I gave isn't deas |
17:42:36 | gevaerts | s/deas/dead/ |
17:42:51 | * | gevaerts fixed the wiki |
17:43:04 | MaCkenzIe | sansa240user look here http://www.felixbruns.de/iPod/firmware/ |
17:43:42 | LambdaCalculus37 | MaCkenzIe: Why do you think his/her name is sansa240user? :) |
17:43:48 | pixelma | MaCkenzIe: eh? What does an Ipod firmware help her? |
17:43:55 | pixelma | *here |
17:44:08 | MaCkenzIe | dont know... |
17:44:10 | LambdaCalculus37 | Although thanks for the link anyway. |
17:44:27 | MaCkenzIe | i tried to help... |
17:45:06 | sansa240user | ok |
17:46:05 | LambdaCalculus37 | MaCkenzIe: Thanks for pointing out that iPod firmware link. I could at least grab some of the firmwares for research. |
17:46:07 | MaCkenzIe | so . how can i put the itunes playlists on rockbox? |
17:46:33 | LambdaCalculus37 | You have to convert them to .m3u playlists. |
17:47:04 | MaCkenzIe | there is a program to do this? |
17:48:15 | LambdaCalculus37 | Look on this page: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UsefulTools |
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17:51:34 | sansa240user | http://files.zefie.com/PMP/sansa/c200/v1/firmware/1.01.00/ working link |
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17:52:13 | gevaerts | sansa240user: that's the one I gave earlier... |
17:52:43 | sansa240user | hmm |
17:52:56 | sansa240user | didnt work when i clicked on it |
17:53:03 | sansa240user | oh well |
17:53:22 | sansa240user | wish i saved the box i would take this back to walmart!!! |
17:53:29 | MaCkenzIe | i think that if rockbox didn't needed to convert playlists. it would make rockbox better..... |
17:53:51 | gevaerts | MaCkenzIe: rockbox supports _the_ most usual playlist format, i.e. m3u |
17:54:04 | preglow | i think that if rockbox supported absolutely everything in the known universe, it would make rockbox better.... |
17:54:17 | MaCkenzIe | haha |
17:54:24 | LambdaCalculus37 | preglow: Except for DRM. |
17:54:29 | pixelma | preglow: think of loading times ;) |
17:54:29 | preglow | even that! |
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17:56:46 | sansa240user | D/L old firmware now |
17:56:49 | sansa240user | :) |
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18:02:53 | sansa240user | thx all |
18:03:09 | | Quit sansa240user ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
18:03:31 | linuxstb | markun: Replying to your question about the status of other ports with the same controller - the D2 is most advanced, but still only has an unstable read-only flash driver. My current ports (Logik DAX and Sansa M260) are progressing now, but don't have any kind of flash driver. The hope is to use USB to dump the raw flash pages, to help us understand how the translation from flash pages to disk-style sectors works. |
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18:29:11 | * | preglow wonders if there is a standard for charsets on dab transmissions... |
18:29:19 | preglow | the d2 doesn't handle norwegian characters too well, heh |
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18:41:55 | linuxstb | preglow: Download the DAB specs and find out... |
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18:46:48 | preglow | they're free? |
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18:47:41 | linuxstb | Yes, although you may need to register with the ETSI |
18:48:03 | linuxstb | Google finds it though - http://www.google.com/search?q=ETSI+EN+300+401 |
18:48:29 | linuxstb | It's been a while since I looked on the ETSI website directly - but I've downloaded all the DVB specs from there in the past. |
18:48:43 | midgey | Bagder: ping |
18:48:55 | linuxstb | The DAB+ spec is here - http://webapp.etsi.org/action/PU/20070213/ts_102563v010101p.pdf |
18:50:17 | markun | preglow: how's the quality with DAB? Do you have a clear signal if you travel around? |
18:50:30 | preglow | markun: haven't had time to travel too much around yet |
18:50:39 | preglow | signals around here are decent enough, though i do hear errors |
18:51:03 | linuxstb | Dealing with the errors in a nice sounding way is going to be a problem I suspect. |
18:51:04 | preglow | linuxstb: ahh, hundred page specs... think i'll wait with this treat until coding starts |
18:51:25 | preglow | linuxstb: well, for dab the options are quite clear, at least |
18:51:32 | * | gevaerts goes to read up on gigabeat surgery |
18:51:34 | preglow | since layer 2 is such a simple encoding |
18:51:56 | markun | gevaerts: received you player? |
18:52:15 | preglow | the d2 os doesn't always conceal errors so nicely, i've had high pitched squeaks from time to time |
18:52:37 | gevaerts | markun: yes. It worked, but apparently I did something wrong with the bootloader installation |
18:53:11 | markun | gevaerts: and what do you get now? |
18:53:24 | gevaerts | markun: it hangs on the gigabeat splash screen |
18:53:54 | markun | has happened to a lot of people |
18:54:01 | pixelma | midgey: wanted to ask you how you want to deal the new voice strings just to get an impression myself |
18:54:19 | * | gevaerts feels relieved :) |
18:54:47 | midgey | pixelma: i'm not sure the way i'm currently doing it will be what is committed |
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18:55:20 | midgey | when i plugin is loaded, i steal the core lang buffer and load that with the plugin strings |
18:55:35 | midgey | then on exit, i reload the core lng file |
18:55:44 | pixelma | I think there was a page listing some options in the wiki. Are you aware of that? |
18:57:37 | midgey | hmm, i see. none of those are really what i was doing |
18:58:03 | midgey | i don't like my method because the strings aren't linked with the plugin right now |
18:58:22 | midgey | so if the lng file is missing from the disk, the plugin is basically unusable |
18:58:31 | midgey | not very nice |
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19:00 |
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19:03:23 | pixelma | yeah, the page is more a collection of ideas and I saw discussion about that arise here from time to time. One thing crossing my mind right now: what's with common strings that you could find in a lot of plugins (like quit or level and such) |
19:03:34 | amiconn | midgey: I think plugins should do it the same way as tge core, i.e. having the english strings built in |
19:04:11 | amiconn | The challenge is handling the .lng and .voice chunks, one per "user" (core, and each localised plugin) |
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19:04:49 | midgey | amiconn: i would agree that they should be built in. Upon reading the wiki page, option 1 seems ideal but also the hardest |
19:05:14 | amiconn | I think the plugin shouldn't overwrite the core buffers though, otherwise calling back some core menu will break |
19:06:14 | amiconn | Also, buffer size requirements are different for each "user" |
19:06:57 | midgey | indeed, right now i have no safety checks at all in the code so a plugin with a lot of strings will certainly crash |
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19:07:04 | midgey | i need to read up on the user field |
19:07:24 | amiconn | There is no such filed yet |
19:07:28 | amiconn | *field |
19:07:28 | | Quit PortableDude (Client Quit) |
19:08:17 | amiconn | There are some further ideas regarding that. If we come up with a nice way of handling chunks, we could also extend it to handle individual strings/clips |
19:08:20 | preglow | linuxstb: dab+ spec was small and nice |
19:08:48 | amiconn | This would allow to do away with per-target .lng and .voice files, while keeping the space advantages |
19:09:03 | midgey | i guess that would explain why the field is always blank |
19:09:08 | amiconn | ...i.e. only loading those strings/clips which are actually needed on a particular target |
19:09:28 | amiconn | I mean combination of target and user |
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19:10:15 | midgey | i understand. one universal lang file for all targets and they load which strings they need |
19:10:35 | amiconn | Yup. Same for .voice |
19:11:27 | midgey | so when a plugin is loaded, would the buffer be flushed and reloaded with the strings needed by that plugin (plus any core string - playback menu)? |
19:11:46 | amiconn | no |
19:11:59 | amiconn | The plugin would need its own buffers in the plugin ram |
19:12:13 | gevaerts | rockboxed_daps++ :) |
19:12:45 | amiconn | Btw, .voice files would probably not end up completely universal, 'cause handling 2 different audio formats for the clips would become nasty |
19:12:46 | | Quit dabujo ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )") |
19:12:59 | amiconn | So one universal .voice for hwcodec, and another for swcodec |
19:13:04 | midgey | makes sense, perhaps the plugin strings would be P_LANG_ when referenced |
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19:13:55 | amiconn | Yeah, that's the interesting part - handling those IDs in an efficient way when they are no longer contiguous |
19:14:30 | domonoky | wouldnt it make sense to keep the voice files target specific ? as the core voicefile are now also target specific ? |
19:15:42 | domonoky | and if we update the voice format, it would be coud to include some version string, so we could check if the voicefile fits the current installed build ? .. |
19:15:47 | amiconn | Right now the LANG_* IDs are generated per target at compile time, leaving out the ones excluded for that target. So the IDs are always contiguous, and can easily be regenerated at runtime (no need to build the pointer array into the binary, which saves several KB) |
19:15:57 | domonoky | s/could/good/ |
19:16:25 | amiconn | domonoky: The idea is that there should ultimately be only one single voice file for all targets, covering core and all voiced plugins |
19:16:36 | amiconn | One file per language, of course |
19:17:04 | amiconn | There is a version marker in .lng and .voice iirc |
19:17:19 | domonoky | so we would exclude the not need voice strings at loadtime ? |
19:17:21 | mrkiko | Are there voiced plugins? What plugins are voiced currently? |
19:17:28 | amiconn | none |
19:17:38 | amiconn | That's part of the project... |
19:17:47 | domonoky | there is a version in the voicefile, but this version is for the format, not for the build.. |
19:17:48 | midgey | mrkiko: no, that would be a secondary task for my proposal |
19:18:06 | midgey | as in "get translations working first" |
19:18:45 | mrkiko | From the last codep olice raid on, rockbox freezes very often in my player.. |
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19:19:15 | mrkiko | is someone encountering other problems? I'm using official builds now, not my own ones. |
19:19:16 | midgey | the challenge is coming up with a universal .lng but still not added much to binsize |
19:19:50 | Llorean | mrkiko: Please use specific revision numbers. |
19:20:01 | * | amiconn thinks that should be possible |
19:20:19 | amiconn | It will probably use somewhat more ram than what we need now though |
19:20:22 | mrkiko | Llorean: sorry, i allways forget to do so... |
19:20:24 | Llorean | The last build to actually use the words "code policing" was only changes in files for the ZVM. |
19:20:32 | amiconn | Not ideal, but probably not avoidable either |
19:20:41 | scorche|sh | Llorean: search the recent logs for jott...i think you missed it |
19:20:50 | midgey | i think my current method adds ~150 bytes, but is not an ideal method |
19:20:59 | midgey | so i'll probably be starting over |
19:21:57 | mrkiko | Aniway I have a new iRiver h340 now, and I noticved rockbox freezes the same way as with the old one I have again... |
19:22:06 | Llorean | scorche|sh: Sounds like it's clean then. |
19:22:11 | mrkiko | So I'm not mad :) |
19:22:50 | scorche|sh | Llorean: well, i dont know about that sample code, but /shrug |
19:23:06 | Llorean | scorche|sh: If it's from Freetype it should be GPL |
19:23:35 | scorche|sh | Llorean: should be, but it doesnt hurt to make sure ;) |
19:23:54 | amiconn | Binsize is more critical than ram (although more free ram is also a good thing) |
19:23:58 | Llorean | Well, Freetype is GPL. So as long as that's where it actually came from... :-P |
19:24:04 | midgey | just so everyone's aware, i'll be gone this weekend without my computer and i'll be in california for most of next week. i might have internet but i'm not sure how much coding i'll be able to get done |
19:24:10 | scorche|sh | ah...i didnt know for sure |
19:24:22 | scorche|sh | midgey: where in cali? |
19:24:29 | midgey | santa barbara |
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19:25:06 | midgey | figured it was better to tell everyone now rather than just disappear :) |
19:25:13 | scorche|sh | bah...a bit far |
19:25:57 | scorche|sh | 2 hours and change provided traffic is good |
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19:26:35 | mrkiko | midgey: good luck |
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19:26:53 | midgey | thank you |
19:27:11 | Horscht | you're welcome |
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19:41:50 | * | amiconn wonders what the criteria are which targets are listed on BuyersGuide and which are not |
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19:45:25 | Llorean | amiconn: "If they play music in Rockbox, and someone knows enough about them to fill in the relevant fields" is all, I think |
19:45:44 | amiconn | Well, there's a number of targets not listed at all |
19:45:50 | amiconn | SHould I add those? |
19:46:21 | Llorean | In my opinion, yes. |
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19:46:55 | faemir | Can someone tell me why rockbox isn't keeping my settings when it shutdown or restarts? |
19:47:10 | BigBambi | what player |
19:47:14 | Horscht | which ones? |
19:47:16 | faemir | ipod 5.5 gen 30gb |
19:47:21 | BigBambi | And how are you shitting down? |
19:47:29 | faemir | haha |
19:47:31 | BigBambi | *shutting, of course :) |
19:47:35 | * | Llorean thinks it's odd the buyer's guide doesn't distinguish "mp3-only" (and WAV) players |
19:47:37 | pixelma | hehe |
19:47:56 | faemir | either holding the play button and it says "shutting down" or force restarting as if i've had a freeze |
19:48:09 | BigBambi | holding down play should be fine |
19:48:11 | faemir | which happens a lot less now compared to last november :D |
19:48:21 | faemir | could it be write access problems? |
19:48:25 | BigBambi | Using the reset (menu + select) is a hard reboot and will not save |
19:48:26 | Horscht | does it not hold any settings at all? |
19:48:37 | Horscht | or just settings like background or similar stuff? |
19:48:38 | faemir | nah |
19:48:38 | PaulJam_ | faemir: in that case run chkdsk |
19:48:48 | faemir | I mean every single option |
19:49:04 | faemir | stuff like pause on headphone coming out etc |
19:49:11 | PaulJam_ | faemir: there were cases where settings weren't saved because of filesystem corruption |
19:51:00 | faemir | will fsck do? |
19:52:07 | PaulJam_ | i guess so (i'm not extremely familiar with linux) |
19:52:15 | faemir | ok |
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20:01:00 | faemir | PaulJam_: there were errors, but they appear to be fixed now |
20:01:01 | faemir | :) |
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20:08:41 | linuxstb | amiconn, Llorean: The BuyersGuide page was (to quote the page itself...) "For Rockbox supported players that are currently available for purchase". But people now seemed to have added other targets (and targets haven't been removed)... |
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20:11:31 | amiconn | linuxstb: Well, no rockboxable target can be bought new (except for some stock clearing). So the main supply is ebay, I think, and if someone is looking for a dap on ebay, he could choose from all supported models |
20:11:43 | amiconn | Some are very rare though |
20:12:08 | linuxstb | Yes, I know - I'm just saying that the purpose of the page has changed over time - which would explain the inconsistencies... |
20:12:25 | LambdaCalculus37 | The page needs to be cleaned up, then. |
20:12:26 | linuxstb | IMO it should list all targets... |
20:13:10 | linuxstb | It would be nice to include (if we can find it) a date range saying when each DAP was available to buy. |
20:13:23 | * | LambdaCalculus37 sees amiconn editing away at the page |
20:14:44 | * | amiconn added the missing archoses, the M3, and some missing info for others |
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20:18:21 | amiconn | linuxstb: Date range might be difficult to define. Start date would be easier |
20:18:53 | amiconn | Iirc the archos Player was the first of the supported targets, released in 1999 |
20:19:12 | linuxstb | Maybe just start and end years would be enough. |
20:19:38 | linuxstb | It's just to give people an idea of the different generations of players, and approximately when they went out of production. |
20:20:06 | linuxstb | Ipod dates should be easy to find. |
20:20:58 | DerPapst | they're on wikipedia. |
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20:28:29 | linuxstb | markun: How does the meizu boot? |
20:28:56 | markun | the boot sequence? |
20:29:23 | linuxstb | yes |
20:30:19 | markun | there is a bootloader in a 50KB rom which had the rescue mode and looks for other places to find a boot image |
20:31:05 | markun | in case of the M6SL it finds the bootimage in the NAND flash rom, loads it to SDRAM, maps SDRAM to 0x0 and executes it |
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20:42:52 | linuxstb | markun: So in theory, it's unbrickable? |
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20:45:06 | markun | linuxstb: yes, should be. Unless we can write to the internal ROM |
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20:47:31 | bertrik | amiconn, JdGordon: can I commit FS #8947 (stub ata_disk_is_active for the simulator)? |
20:48:01 | bertrik | you discussed it earlier today but there was no conclusion as far as I understood |
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20:49:00 | * | linuxstb is currently working on the m260 with the nand flash module physically removed - very safe :) |
20:49:15 | linuxstb | (unless I lose it of course...) |
20:55:10 | midgey | i think i have an m240v1 and m240v2 |
20:55:54 | midgey | i'd like to see rockbox on both (once the v2 firmware is figured out) |
20:57:08 | saratoga | linuxstb: thats a v1 model? |
20:57:24 | saratoga | also, FAAD has actually had a few CVS checkins these last few months |
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21:00:51 | linuxstb | saratoga: yes |
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21:06:38 | gevaerts | markun: do you have any idea about the register endianness for the meizu usb controller ? |
21:07:03 | markun | no idea |
21:07:11 | markun | do you have the s5l8700 datasheet? |
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21:07:46 | gevaerts | yes |
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21:10:15 | sansa240user | is there any way to del the sansa OS and only have rockbox? |
21:10:38 | gevaerts | sansa240user: rockbox doesn't have a native usb mode yet |
21:10:46 | sansa240user | damn |
21:11:01 | sansa240user | ok i got the rockbox working and its great!!!! |
21:11:18 | sansa240user | they should make there own mp3 players |
21:11:36 | sansa240user | 1000 times better than b4 |
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21:55:27 | * | LambdaCalculus37 now has a Sansa e100 firmware update and will be looking through it later on |
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22:03:27 | bertrik | gevaerts: USB serial port can be activated just by defining USB_SERIAL, right? does it also disable mass storage? |
22:04:44 | bertrik | oh, I think I see, I think I have to edit usb_core.h |
22:04:59 | gevaerts | bertrik: it doesn't disable mass storage. However, to actually activate it at runtime, you also need to call usb_core_enable_driver(USB_DRIVER_SERIAL,true) (this is done by the debug menu code now) |
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22:23:24 | GShang | Apologies if this is offtopic for this channel. I've been asked to research whether Rockbox will run on the Iaudio A3. I've not found any evidence that it will but thought I'd ask here before I reported back. |
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22:23:55 | Bagder | it doesn't |
22:24:08 | DerPapst | All supported daps are listed on the fromtpage. If it isn't there it's not supported :-) |
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22:25:22 | * | gevaerts warns DerPapst about using the word "supported" if pixelma is nearby |
22:25:39 | DerPapst | s/supported/working/ |
22:25:42 | DerPapst | *cough* |
22:26:37 | * | scorche|sh wonders about that particular usage of the word |
22:26:59 | GShang | Thanks. Keep up the great work. We'll find another model for my friend to buy that supports it. We rely on Rockbox for the speech output. |
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22:38:28 | pixelma | just wanted to prevent misunderstandings... |
22:40:25 | scorche|sh | pixelma: however referring to that list in particular, those *are* the supported units |
22:40:36 | pixelma | why? |
22:40:55 | pixelma | the list refers to them as "Rockbox runs on these players" |
22:41:04 | scorche|sh | rockbox may "run" on other devices...and i hesitate to say "run fully", as those devices may not all run fully |
22:41:41 | pixelma | and I'd imagine something different about something "supported" |
22:41:46 | scorche|sh | i agree with your usage, but i just get all bundled up when i think of the technical usage |
22:42:27 | pixelma | or I "could" |
22:42:43 | linuxstb | IMO the problem is not saying something is "supported", it's the reverse - i.e. saying it's "not supported". That could imply that it works. |
22:43:10 | scorche|sh | rockbox "runs" on the, say, D2, however it is not supported and doesnt run rockbox near completely |
22:43:26 | pixelma | that's where the discussion started |
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22:45:48 | pixelma | scorche|sh: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=15859.0 (I started this after asking here if I should create a NotSupported wiki page...) |
22:48:02 | scorche|sh | and i agree...we should say it doesnt run on those devices rather than "not supported" and i have changed my wording on that |
22:49:15 | scorche|sh | my issue is with the front page list which is obviously a list of players we "support"...it is also an incomplete list of "the targets rockbox runs on"....it is also a list of "devices rockbox runs on that we have judged to be complete enough and usable enough for general users" |
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22:52:06 | linuxstb | scorche|sh: So how would you reword the front page? |
22:52:52 | scorche|sh | i dont know =/ |
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22:53:22 | scorche|sh | it is fine for general use...i just get hung up on the technical side when technically rockbox does run on other devices |
22:53:29 | linuxstb | I agree that "runs" isn't 100% accurate, but I think it's good enough. |
22:54:01 | linuxstb | And I can't think of a short way to say it better. |
22:54:27 | scorche|sh | it gets the message across to the users correctly...i just find i hard to say "the front page has a list of targets that rockbox runs on" |
22:55:09 | scorche|sh | actually, i suppose that line is alright as long as we dont say "all" or "complete" |
22:55:35 | Bagder | "targets that rockbox runs on good enough so that we can tell average people to go ahead and try it on them" :-) |
22:55:49 | scorche|sh | ....it is also a list of "devices rockbox runs on that we have judged to be complete enough and usable enough for general users" |
22:55:57 | scorche|sh | as i said above ;) |
22:55:59 | pixelma | "It runs well on..." =) But basically I think that only mention the players it works good enough is better than imply (if only a few people get confused) that maybe no-one's tried etc. |
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23:49:28 | Hillshum | how would i hack the sansa v2 checksum? |
23:50:51 | Bagder | hack? |
23:51:04 | Hillshum | like, figure it out |
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23:51:16 | Bagder | http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2007/12/05/i-solved-the-ams-sansas-firmware-checksum-puzzle/ |
23:51:25 | Bagder | perhaps |
23:51:38 | Bagder | but there's some additional info in the v2 thread in the forum too |
23:53:05 | Hillshum | ive read the thread |
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