#rockbox 2008-05-06

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#rockbox log for 2008-05-06

00:00:09	Nico_P	the playback behaviour isn't change
00:00:45		Quit shotofadds ("Leaving")
00:00:48	Nico_P	well, yes and no...
00:01:49	Nico_P	there are solutions where it doesn't change (changing how the WPS accesses the value, as I explained), but I would prefer to make the playlist index be incremented after the actual track change
00:02:00		Join cbr\|w [0] (n=cbr@212.98.160.130)
00:02:26	Nico_P	... which changes the behaviour and fixes another bug (FS #8206)
00:03:22	amiconn	Well, delaying works for all normal tags, so if you put the index into the id3 struct, the display should be correct. If only the wps reads it from there, playback behaviour shouldn't change at all, unless something really fishy is going on
00:03:58	amiconn	(i.e. something is reading the value back from the wps, which must never happen imo)
00:07:01	Nico_P	indeed, changing the display as you say won't affect playback at all, but the playlist will still be out of sync even though it doesn't show in the wps
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00:07:21	Nico_P	it will show in the playlist viewer and will manifest through FS #8206
00:11:25	amiconn	Hmm, never observed 8206 myself. Maybe that's because it's rather unlikely to stop within a 3 second window within a 4..5 minute song by chance
00:13:21	Nico_P	yeah, it's hard to have it happen by chance
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00:18:10	amiconn	euh
00:18:22	*	amiconn just observed a case of repeated last track
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00:20:01	amiconn	I have no real idea how that happened, but when I thought the album will end soon (last track playing), the playlist position showed 12/13. And then it started playing the last track again, showing 13/13
00:20:09	amiconn	The album does have 13 tracks
00:20:51	amiconn	I guess something went wrong during resume
00:21:40	Nico_P	:/
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00:23:14	amiconn	It's not the very latest svn though, but r17335
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00:26:38	Nico_P	I don't think there were any playback changes since then
00:27:06	Llorean	Is there any way the beginning of rebuffering could cause a problem? I haven't been able to test this at all yet, but I think the last two times I ended up on a song different from what the playlist position should be, the track change happened during a disk spinup.
00:27:13	Nico_P	I've been waiting for bug reports to come in before making any further iffy changes
00:27:29	Nico_P	Llorean: on a flash target?
00:27:42	Llorean	Nico_P: No. Flash targets don't have disk spinups. On my gigabeat.
00:28:01	Nico_P	hmm yes. slaps forehead
00:28:25	Nico_P	there might be a weakness there
00:28:29	Llorean	I was referencing his mention of the playlist position differing from the song actually being played, which is, I think, that problem I brought up before.
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00:28:53	Llorean	It would also explain why it's a lot more rare when people let playback occur without manual skips, but still occasionally happens.
00:29:01	Llorean	By "people" I suppose I mean "me"
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00:46:04	pixelma	Llorean: you suggest that the track repeats don't (or didn't) happen on flash targets?
00:46:18	Llorean	pixelma: I didn't intend to suggest that.
00:46:39	pixelma	hmm... misunderstood then
00:47:06	Llorean	I merely meant to say that "on the one target I've experienced it on so far, I think I've noticed correlation between it occurring and disk spinups happening during track transitions, but have no solid evidence yet"
00:48:18	amiconn	The problem is to make a synthetic test that makes the problems show up earlier
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00:48:44	preglow	140 fps at 48 mhz at 320x240 is quite decent, isn't it?
00:48:50	amiconn	Much like the wavplay plugin helped me solving the occasional MMC driver hangs on Ondio
00:50:02	amiconn	wavplay caused way more SPI activity than mp3 playback, both on the MMC SPI and the MAS SPI, hence making the hangs much more likely
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00:50:10	Nico_P	maybe a plugin could simulate crazy user behaviour and check the results
00:51:01	Llorean	preglow: Not good enough. :-P
00:51:27	Llorean	Do you mean 48khz audio?
00:52:08	pixelma	Llorean: got it now and I could imagine that - if condensed to track change during buffering because I experienced that on my c200 as well (not lately though after Nico_P decided to go back)
00:52:57	Llorean	pixelma: Unfortunately, I have a very hard time reproducing it without just skipping wildly and hoping.
00:53:47	pixelma	yeah, never been able to reproduce too
00:53:59	amiconn	I wonder what happens if you put lots of 2-second files into the playlist on swcodec (i.e. tracks which are shorther than the track transition window)
00:54:26	Llorean	amiconn: I've actually experienced the problem most with flac files and very large MP3s.
00:54:33	amiconn	(thinking torture test here)
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00:55:07	Llorean	Or skipping previous.
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00:57:21	Nico_P	amiconn: that could become pretty ugly
00:57:43	amiconn	Llorean: Another torture test would be possible if it more often hits files larger than the buffer: Reduce the audio buffer to 1MB or so, so that it has to rebuffer really often
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01:00
01:02:54	Nico_P	amiconn: I'm not really finding why the splash doesn't show up
01:03:33	Nico_P	I don't know gui_wps_show at all and it's not exactly easy to follow
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01:07:05	amiconn	I'll soon know whether it also fails when playing an album from start to end without skipping or stopping+resuming (quite unlikely case for me when listening during the day)
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01:08:46	amiconn	What I do know that it does work on hwcodec, and there is no ifdef in that function.
01:10:02	amiconn	It seems that the 3-seconds resume bug is gone though. It seems that I somehow saw the 3-seconds resume and the misssing end-of-list splash as one and the same problem (because both have to do with what happens at the end of a playlist)
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01:25:05	Nico_P	wow gdb is really acting weird
01:27:15	amiconn	The splash is also missing when playing an album from start to end.
01:27:19	amiconn	(on H180)
01:29:22	Nico_P	ah, I've gotten it to show! :)
01:30:28	amiconn	One of the conditions in gwps-common.c line 320 is obviously not met. That also explains why the 3-seconds resume needed an explicit fix. The same if() body also clears the resume position
01:32:59	Nico_P	amiconn: http://pastebin.ca/1008800 makes it appear
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01:34:30	Nico_P	I'm pretty sure I had never seen that splash screen before though
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01:36:32	Nico_P	it's not very pretty. it makes the statusbar appear on top of the WPS even though it's not supposed to be displayed. also the wps isn't updated to the stop graphics
01:38:10	Nico_P	time for me to go to bed
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01:41:08	amiconn	Hmm, the statusbar redraw probably needs to check the enable status. That's in turn something I wouldn't have noticed....
01:43:27	*	amiconn usually uses the standard statusbar instead of thoroughly recreating its functionality
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01:57:05	Lars_G	Hi all. Sorry trying to resolve an svn conflict. has "bool scrub_ffwd_rew(int button)" been eliminated from apps/gui/gwps-common.(c\|h) I can't determine if it was eliminated or it's a problem with my copy
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02:03:09	Llorean	Lars_G: can't you just check out a clean copy of the file and check?
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02:04:00	Lars_G	Llorean: Meh I think I will
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04:22:26	rpj8	Hey guys. I'm trying to install rockbox on an ipod nano 1st gen. I tried both the automated and the manual install, and both don't continue, giving me an error "No ipods found, aborting".
04:22:37	rpj8	I'm definitely in disk mode, and it's mounted as well.
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04:26:03	rpj8	I should also mention I'm trying to do this in linux.
04:26:15	rpj8	dmesg is able to detect it as scsi 4:0:0:0: Direct-Access Apple iPod 1.62 PQ: 0 ANSI: 0
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04:27:00	Lars_G	I'm not sure if it has to be mounted for install... for the bootloader install that is
04:27:26	rpj8	Lars_G: Well for the automatic installer it says it has to be as it asks for a mount point
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04:28:15	rpj8	unmounted it gives the same error. [INFO] Scanning disk devices...
04:28:15	rpj8	[ERR] No ipods found, aborting
04:28:27	Llorean	Do you have the proper permissions?
04:28:30	Llorean	Perhaps sudo ipodpatcher
04:28:36	rpj8	Ah, that's a good point.
04:28:37	rpj8	one sec
04:29:07	rpj8	Nope. Same error.
04:29:45	Llorean	Are you 100% sure it's a 1st generation?
04:29:59	rpj8	The only other is a 2nd gen, correct?
04:30:04	Llorean	And 3rd gen..
04:30:12	rpj8	Hm, perhaps it's a 3rd gen :(
04:30:31	rpj8	Gahhh. Now I'll have to somehow restore the default ipod firmware.
04:31:20	Lars_G	rpj8: restoring is very easy
04:31:30	rpj8	in linux?
04:31:32	Lars_G	rpj8: Anyhow, nanos are easy to discover. what color is yours?
04:31:39	Lars_G	Hmm no in linux it's not so easy
04:31:40	rpj8	It's a white 1gb model.
04:31:48	Lars_G	is the front plastic?
04:32:10	Lars_G	Then it's a first generation.
04:32:35	Lars_G	Second generations are same form but with rounded edges and the whole body is metal, in metal, black or colors coloring.
04:32:58	Llorean	Lars_G: Third generation also comes in white, I believe..
04:32:59	Lars_G	Third generation nanos are the "fatty", all metal body like 2G but square instead of rectangular.
04:33:06	Llorean	But 1gb is 1st-gen only
04:33:08	rpj8	ah
04:33:19	rpj8	well this is a long-ish one hah.
04:33:20	Lars_G	the easiest way to restore the firmware is in windows or mac with iTunes
04:33:32	rpj8	And the automatic installed when I did an autodetect came up with a 1st gen
04:33:36	Llorean	If the iPod partition layout is too broken, iPodPatcher won't detecti t.
04:33:43	Llorean	You basically need a working iPod before you can install Rockbox
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04:33:54	rpj8	I see.
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04:34:16	rpj8	Well, I'll hop on a windows pc now then and try to restore it... last time I tried to use itunes it just wouldn't start up.
04:34:31	rpj8	not that that's your problem :)
04:38:32	Absnthe	what can I do if neither itunes or any other operating systems (windows, mac, linux) recognise my ipod?
04:38:44	Llorean	Absnthe: Follow the IpodManualRestore wiki page.
04:40:30	Absnthe	thank you
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06:43:02	JdGordon	hell yeah... this single inline setting thing might actually work :D
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07:12:27	David_	hey, just installed rockbox on my ipod color, and now when i initialize the database it crashes. It happens after an apparently random amount of time too, I can't predict it, but it's around 100-300 songs it indexes before it crashes. Anyone know why?
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07:26:12	JdGordon	David_: broken tags is usually the reason
07:26:40	David_	ahh, thanks. so how do I fix the tags?
07:27:03	JdGordon	with a tagging program? I dunno...
07:27:09	JdGordon	you need to find the tracks with the problem
07:27:28	David_	cool, thanks JdGordon
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08:30:59	rp-	is private messaging on the rockbox forum just disabled or not working?
08:31:58	JdGordon	some users dont let you pm them
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08:33:35	rp-	a i think it worked anyway, just didn't enable to save a copy in my outbox
08:33:46	mrkiko	Hi all! I have actually two questions. 1) What actually appens in "study" mode? 2) How can I access the QuickScreen from an H300 device?
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08:34:45	JdGordon	1) dunno, 2) hold a-b
08:35:07	Mouser_X	1) Think of it more like "tracklock."
08:35:24	Mouser_X	With it enabled, it skips within the file, instead of to the next file.
08:35:36	Mouser_X	The original idea for it was to be used with audio books and such.
08:35:54	Mouser_X	At least, that's the impression I got when I read the FS# for it.
08:36:58	*	Mouser_X notices that there's unused buttons on the 'beast in Rockbox.
08:37:18	Mouser_X	Actually, I pushed one once to see what would happen, and it locked up...
08:37:29	Mouser_X	I had to use the battery switch.
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08:49:58	linuxstb_	Has anyone tried using CreativeWizard to upload a firmware file to the Gigabeat S on Windows? http://www.epizenter.net/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?144865
08:50:23	B4gder	interesting v2 details
08:50:23	linuxstb_	sendfirm works on the Zen, so I would expect that tool to work on the beast...
08:51:30	Mouser_X	I'd give it a try, but I'd hate to have to resort to Linux to fix my beast if it failed.
08:51:55	Mouser_X	Nothing against Linux mind you. I just had a tough time getting it installed on my beast is all (the bootloader, not Linux).
08:54:45		Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org)
08:54:53	toffe82	linuxstb_: I tried to use directmtp , a tool from microsoft, I can send the object properties, but when I send the file , the player is no more available, I have to check again
08:56:17	JdGordon	http://imagebin.ca/view/qOPxq11.html
08:57:05	scorche	eek
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08:57:10	JdGordon	no likey?
08:57:26	scorche	JdGordon: i am afraid what others will say for you :)
08:57:26	B4gder	I like
08:57:31	linuxstb_	Presumably all the items shift up and down as you move the cursor?
08:57:35	JdGordon	yeah
08:57:49	*	scorche likes....saves a lot of keypresses
08:58:05	JdGordon	I think there will be 3 modes.. disabled, like that, and 2 lines for every item
08:58:16	scorche	oh goody...more options...
08:58:29	JdGordon	unfortunatly, that has required a few tiny hacks to get working
08:58:32	linuxstb_	Do we really need 3 different ways to view settings?
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08:58:34	Mouser_X	So, if you've got something selected (as in your example) it will say what setting that item has in the 2nd line?
08:59:00	JdGordon	linuxstb_: well we dont really need any actually :)
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08:59:58	amiconn	JdGordon: I wonder how this will look on a smaller screen and/or when using a larger font
09:00
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09:00:24	amiconn	The font is quite tiny for the example target
09:01:20	JdGordon	as long as the 2nd line doesnt need to scroll it should look fine
09:01:45	*	JdGordon commits..
09:02:00	amiconn	It might actually need to scroll
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09:02:16	amiconn	Don't forget there are other languages than just english
09:02:30	*	JdGordon doesnt really commit :p
09:03:12	JdGordon	found a setting which can easily need to scroll
09:03:22	amiconn	Btw, the left & right quickscreen settings often need to scroll in german (the settings, not the values). Still better than the old, staggered quickscreen though
09:03:58	JdGordon	how much extra room do they need to not scroll?
09:04:06	JdGordon	is it just too small? or a fair bit?
09:04:15	amiconn	A fair bit
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09:05:04	amiconn	"Repeat" -> "Wiederholung", "Shuffle" -> "Zufallswiedergabe"
09:05:20	JdGordon	use shorter words :p
09:05:45	JdGordon	isnt shuffle just yes/no?
09:05:56	*	petur wonder how bad it will be in French
09:06:03	markun	or finnish!
09:06:05	amiconn	The first example cannot be shortened while keeping the meaning. The second probably could be shortened a bit
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09:08:13	webguest35	hello everyone
09:08:39	webguest35	i'm just trying out rockbox on ipod, after using the H300 version for a long time
09:09:21		Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
09:09:27	webguest35	i'm having a silly problem - i loaded into apple firmware, and the ipod refuses to turn off rather than just the hardware suspend mode
09:09:44	linuxstb_	That's a "feature" of the Apple firmware...
09:09:45	webguest35	is there a trick to turning it really off, so i can boot rockbox back up, or do I just have to wait?
09:10:01	linuxstb_	You need to do a hard reset/reboot - hold MENU+SELECT for a few seconds.
09:10:03	GodEater	webguest35: hard reset it
09:10:10	webguest35	thanks!
09:10:21	amiconn	"Zufallswiedergabe" is somewhat imprecise anyway, because it actually means "Random". "Shuffle" translates as "Mischen", but that would also be ambiguous, because it also means 'to mix'
09:10:22	linuxstb_	webguest35: This page is useful to know - http://ipodlinux.org/Key_Combinations
09:10:46	webguest35	heh, thanks a lot guys
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09:11:15	webguest35	i've been using on the h300 for years, your work has been incredibly beneficial
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09:19:20	JdGordon	well ill be bloody surprised if this is ever allowed to be commited :p soo many "tweaks" needed for it to work
09:19:46	JdGordon	but while everyone is here.. is there any reason we dont have a way to put styled text at a pixel co-ord?
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09:24:47	linuxstb	JdGordon: Is it needed?
09:24:55	amiconn	JdGordon: (1) It was not needed so far. (2) It only makes limited sense
09:24:56	JdGordon	it will be for this
09:25:13	*	petur whispers 'viewports'
09:25:22	JdGordon	I've modified lcd_puts_style_offset to do it
09:25:28	amiconn	The only style we have atm is inverted, and how would you decide what to invert when placing text at a pixel position?
09:25:36	JdGordon	no, viewports does really make sense for this
09:27:48	linuxstb	You need it to right-align the text?
09:28:11	JdGordon	yeah
09:28:46	JdGordon	hmm..
09:28:59	JdGordon	just tihnking it wont work because of the gradient selection bar...
09:29:15	JdGordon	but if I can set the viewports bg colour to transparent it might..
09:29:27	amiconn	And if you need to invert just the text itself, set fg&bg (or inverse drawmode) before, and reset it afterwards
09:29:53	JdGordon	yay, 1 less hack needed :)
09:30:03	*	amiconn actually forgot the gradient as he never uses it
09:30:33	JdGordon	I've also got it not showing the second line if the menu doesnt have any settings.. I need something for funcion calls and submenus though
09:30:40	JdGordon	----> is good for submenu..
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09:32:38	*	amiconn wonders whether JdGordon willl also try to make submenus unfold within the parent menu ... :/
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09:32:58	JdGordon	now THAT would be cool! :p
09:33:10	JdGordon	never leae the main menu
09:33:47	petur	oh, and screen transitions :p
09:34:12	*	petur watches amiconn run away, screaming
09:34:45	*	pixelma would rather see the statusbar update lag fixed...
09:34:52	*	scorche is getting reminded of the Gigabeat S�s OF
09:35:19	JdGordon	we actually could do menu transitions now with viewports and some trickery :)
09:35:19	*	petur wonders how the conversion of the recording screen to viewports is going
09:35:41	JdGordon	stopped :p lost interest in it unfortunatly...
09:35:59	JdGordon	split the drawing code out of the button code and itll be easier to do
09:36:01	*	petur figured as much
09:36:38	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:45:25	*	linuxstb notices we now have a green build table...
09:46:38	*	scorche wonder if a pool is around for how long it will last and if it will make the whole length of the table
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09:52:07	JdGordon	3 rows is hardly a green table
09:52:38	*	JdGordon puts his money on it wont last the whole table
10:00
10:01:39	pixelma	JdGordon: you can't bet on it because you had the power to influence that ;)
10:02:16	JdGordon	I can vote on the elections here and have the power to influence them also...'=
10:02:37	JdGordon	admitadly not as much though :p
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10:21:43	amiconn	JdGordon: It would possibly be cool, but hamper usability beyond everything
10:22:19	JdGordon	what would?
10:22:29	*	amiconn totally fails to see what's cool about transition effects though
10:23:54	GodEater	me wonders what, if anything, amiconn does consider cool
10:23:59	GodEater	^/
10:25:14	JdGordon	does the transparent colour not work with the font drawing?
10:27:04	amiconn	?
10:27:53	JdGordon	I'm getting black text in a purple rectangle
10:27:54	amiconn	GodEater: I consider it cool if something works reliable and is usable. That includes being _fast_, which automatically excludes any transitions
10:28:23	amiconn	JdGordon: Fonts are mono bitmaps. The transparent colour only works for native bitmaps
10:28:44	JdGordon	nooooooooo!
10:28:46	amiconn	There is no transparent colour
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10:29:11	amiconn	It's only a property of bitmaps
10:31:02	*	petur expects 'is' to become 'was' soon.... ;)
10:31:42	amiconn	It it is even only a property of 16 bit bitmaps so far
10:32:13	JdGordon	hell yeah! got it working without it
10:32:35	JdGordon	nice call on forcing me to use viewpoers petur :)
10:32:58	Mouser_X	Heh
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10:38:41	JdGordon	anyone wanna test this out?
10:39:38	JdGordon	arg, iriver remote lcd is breaking it
10:40:17	Mouser_X	I'm a little interested.
10:40:36	*	Mouser_X has a Gigabeat F and S, but no build environment.
10:40:50	Mouser_X	(And a Sansa e250 actually)
10:41:47	*	JdGordon needs to fix the small lcd issue :(
10:42:01	JdGordon	seems to have problems putting the item on the screen if there is < 5 lines
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11:01:12	JdGordon	Bagder: flyspray just died when I tried adding a task.. Uncaught Error of type [swift_connection_exception] with message [The SMTP connection is not alive and cannot be read from. (fsockopen: #) ]