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#rockbox log for 2008-05-08

00:00:41BigBambipetur: :)
00:01:08pixelmaamiconn: yes, it's used e.g. in the description of the backlight menu in display settings and it's not there in the Ondio manuals
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00:04:15*pixelma writes slightly confusing sentences today...
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00:17:54amiconnpetur: Shouldn't "Toggle between colours" depend on a colour display?
00:18:03amiconnOh, and btw you used the american spelling...
00:18:23peturyou're probably right :/
00:18:40*petur uses whatever spelling comes out of his fingers
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00:31:00*petur hopes he got the tex syntax right...
00:32:55 Quit bertrik ("Ex-Chat")
00:34:15LloreanJdGordon: Isn't the text editor supposed to load by parts though, and have no maximum file size?
00:34:25LloreanEr, the text viewer rather
00:34:37amiconnThe viewer is, the editor is not
00:34:47LloreanThe viewer is the one in question here.
00:34:57LloreanSo, viewer: no max filesize?
00:34:57amiconnThe editor even behaves nasty when trying to edit a too large file: it crashes
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00:40:56webguest23can rockbox be ported to the playstation portable system ?
00:41:10amiconnjhMikeS: ping
00:42:03linuxstbwebguest23: Sure
00:42:50webguest23that good news for me thanks but do you now how it can be done
00:43:20webguest23rockbox on psp would be great
00:43:31LloreanIt's open source. Take the code, and learn programming for PSP, and get to work. :)
00:44:28webguest23lean programming lol funny but thanks for the help
00:44:53linuxstbWhat answer were you expecting?
00:45:13 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
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00:46:37webguest23i just want to now if any one else already had done this and if there was a way to put it on with out alot of work .
00:46:54scorche|shnot right now
00:47:03linuxstbNo, no-one has done it, and I don't think anyone is working on it.
00:47:27webguest23ok Thanks you for your time and help
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01:34:50jhMikeSamiconn: pong
01:37:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:38:05saratogawho is good to talk to about compilers/linkers for my EZX project?
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01:52:22mama1i need help creating tool kit for sansa view...
01:55:21saratogamama1: the view is an arm CPU, so the standard dev environment should work
02:00:19 Part toffe82
02:02:21mama1how do i create a usb stub for the sansa view so i can recover it?
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02:06:48advcomp2019mama1, i had a view that the force format caused the view to be stuck into manufacturing mode.. is that what happened to you?
02:09:41mama1i want to reprogram the e200tool so it will work with the view
02:11:13advcomp2019mama1, good.. i had a hard time getting sandisk to replace my view
02:13:16mama1i still need the USB stub that will run on the view... i need help
02:17:33saratogaisn't e200tool specific to the Sandisk recovery mode?
02:18:50advcomp2019saratoga, the e200tool only works part of the way
02:20:06saratogait works at all?
02:20:58advcomp2019it will not get past the 6666:e200
02:21:45saratogai guess nvidia must have kept some of that code around in the 6000 series
02:22:37saratogawould be nice if they kept the same USB controller too
02:24:48saratogahaha nvidia's new PP chip runs at 750MHz
02:26:16advcomp2019i heard 250mhz
02:27:59saratogatheres quite a few different chips running at various speeds, but the highend is an arm11 at 750MHz
02:28:12saratogaprobably with DSP too
02:28:25scorche|shsaratoga: jees...are they trying to take on geodes?
02:29:23*scorche|sh wonders how it does with power consumption but then realize this is getting a bit offtopic
02:29:48saratogai'd expect something like this to be considerablely faster for AV stuff then a geode, but it won't run Windows, so its a different market
02:30:04advcomp2019it says here 250mhz:
02:31:30saratogathat would be the midrange core
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03:31:14yeal`anyone here
03:31:21advcomp2019yeal`, yea
03:31:28yeal`how do i get album art
03:31:33yeal`i have some albums without it
03:31:38yeal`is there an online database?
03:32:06Shaidthis is off-topic, though
03:32:42yeal`why do you say that
03:32:52yeal`don't say that
03:33:21Shaidif you use google image search and search for the album name you'll probably find a cover image to use for album art.
03:35:58yeal`thatjust gives amazon links
03:37:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:46:43Statusppl..where can i find extra presets for rockbox?
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03:47:07JdGordon|uniin the manual!
03:47:37Statusthere's no presets in a manual..
03:47:45Statusand the site carries is FM ones
03:47:52Statusim saying for the equalizer and stuff
03:48:07JdGordon|uniits not mentioned in the manual?
03:48:21Statusprobably how to make them..
03:48:34Statusbut i can never get them the way i want it ;/
03:49:06JdGordon|uni at least tells yuo where to find all the ones which are shipped with rockbox
03:49:08Statuson my other sansa i got some presets from some website but i cant remember the name
03:50:14Statusas i said
03:50:17Statusno presets there
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03:52:55mama1hi bagder, i need help... trying to re write the e200tool so that it will detect the sansa view.. i am currently stumped on creating the usb stub which will run on the view
03:53:36JdGordon|uniits about 3am his local time...
03:54:11mama1tnx will try later ;)
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04:30:57saratogamama1: I don't think its known how to run code on View, next to nothing is known about the CPU
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05:34:49brent113_What is happening here: I plug in a wall adapter into my e200 and I hear a faint high pitched noise
05:35:31brent113_louder music will overpower it so it's not noticeable, but at lower volumes it is quite noticeable. And it goes away as soon as I unplug the power
05:37:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:39:19advcomp2019where is it at, headphone or the sansa?
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05:48:19saratogasounds like you have a bad power adapter
05:49:17brent113_it's at the headphones
05:49:38advcomp2019i have that with mine but i think it is the old wiring of my house
05:50:06brent113_the only thing I can think of is it's giving dirty power
05:50:30brent113_it kind of sounds like a square wave, but in the original sansa firmware it doesn't do that
05:51:31advcomp2019some of my outlets in my house has ground issues
05:53:03Shaidsansa's are badly shielded
05:53:15Shaidmy e280 makes a noise when accessing the flash
06:01:33 Quit yeal` ()
06:01:39brent113_that's interesting
06:02:03brent113_the problem I'm having though doesn't exist in the sansa firmware, only rockbox
06:04:06Shaidrockbox may use the charge circuit differently than the OF does.
06:04:14Shaidthus it may cause the noise
06:04:26ShaidI don't have a wall charger here, I can test it tonight at home if you'd like
06:05:40Statusbrent113_ i had the same prob..but when playing songs...
06:05:58brent113_had, as in past tense, as in you fixed it?
06:06:01Statusi'd change songs and get a high-pitch sound just like piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii really loud
06:06:03 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
06:06:15Statusi just reset the settings and havent had a prob since
06:06:32brent113_when it shuts the screen off it changes pitch
06:07:05brent113_how'd you reset the settings
06:07:10brent113_like, just choose defaults?
06:07:15brent113_or like reload the firmware
06:07:47Statusto there's an option somewhere in there to reset
06:08:11Statussettings > manage settings > reset settings
06:08:21brent113_yea, didn't fix my prob
06:15:35Lloreanbrent113_: Rockbox doesn't actually enable charging, so the charging circuitry is certainly going to be acting differently than in the OF. Because of the poor shielding of the device, this probably accounts for the noise
06:16:12brent113_it most certainly does support charging
06:16:21brent113_why else would they offer a car adapter mode?
06:16:40*Llorean sighs.
06:16:50LloreanRockbox does not currently enable the charging hardware.
06:17:02LloreanCar adapter mode is based on adapter detection, which is separate.
06:17:09LloreanAlso, charging is *intended* but not functional yet.
06:17:36brent113_can you elaborate on the car adapter part then?
06:17:38LloreanThis means the charging circuitry is working in its default state. Some people have reported that this results in their players charging, while others don't. We do know that for full speed charging it will need to be configured.
06:17:51Lloreanbrent113_: All it does is turn off your player when a charger is disconnected.
06:18:16LloreanDetecting the presence of the charger is separate from actually charging the battery.
06:18:39brent113_I guess I was wrong to assume they would write them both simultaneously
06:19:34LloreanSo you think we should've just left out car adapter mode until someone found out how to properly configure the charging hardware?
06:19:37brent113_So do you know what the multiple states of the charging hardware are? Or is there documentation on this somewhere?
06:20:07LloreanAs it's a development build, I don't really see the point of leaving out features as they get finished, but you're free to wait until a release comes around.
06:20:43brent113_:) I <3 rockbox too much to wait
06:21:26brent113_And the fact that the sansa firmware is pretty much useless, it doesn't support id3 tags above version 2.0
06:21:32brent113_which is the original reason I switched
06:22:15LloreanFor more information, see
06:22:33brent113_Llorean, thank you for your knowledge
06:23:39brent113_Ah, I see, it's a variable charge hardware setup, this is interesting
06:24:45Shaidsimilar to how the iPod works
06:25:04brent113_I've never considered these devices could vary their charge speed
06:25:15ShaidI enjoy charging my 5.5g via a firewire wall charger. It's turbo mode. ;)
06:25:33brent113_It seems you would always want the fastest charge possible
06:25:44Lloreannot necessarily
06:25:54Shaiddepends, fast charging can have side effects on battery life/durability/etc
06:25:57LloreanThat's the most stress on the battery.
06:26:12LloreanIf you can afford slow charges, such as while sleeping, they may be better for the health of your battery.
06:26:32Shaidand considering they're usually lithium ion cells, and lithium ion is, chemically, rather an unstable mix, you don't want 'bad things' to happen
06:26:50LloreanShaid: The battery itself has a circuit that should prevent such "bad things"
06:26:59Shaidtell that to Apple and Dell.
06:28:21brent113_This really is all a shame, why would Sandisk go out of their way to make sure there will be a rock box port for their products but not provide development support
06:28:50Lloreanbrent113_: They didn't really go out of their way.
06:29:13LloreanThey provided us with a hardware sample or two, but that's really it.
06:29:29Shaidand then changed all the hardware in the V2s just to spite rockbox.
06:29:58LloreanOr possibly simply because it was cheaper...
06:30:09brent113_Llorean, so currently it's set at 50mA and 3.9 volts
06:30:46Lloreanbrent113_: According to the patch, yes. I'm fairly certain he knows the relevant code better than I do.
06:30:53LloreanWell, and relevant hardware specs.
06:31:36brent113_So do you think this patch would possibly affect the noise the charger is producing?
06:31:54brent113_Or is it likely there is another hardware setting that is affecting it
06:31:56LloreanIt depends on why the noise occurs.
06:32:13LloreanSince I don't know, I can only hazard the guess that it might.
06:33:06brent113_How do I install the patch so I might try?
06:33:23LloreanSee the SimpleGuideToCompiling wiki page. You'll have to compile a custom build.
06:33:54brent113_Can you compile just that module?
06:37:11brent113_What would you suggest for charge values? Are the defaults in the module sufficient or should I lower them to be conservative
06:37:19brent113_in the patch*
06:38:23LloreanIf you read through the comments, I believe the last version of the patch at the bottom is set to use the same values the original firmware does.
06:39:20brent113_In what state however
06:39:50brent113_If the OF changes states, will it allow it to charge faster, or will it limit the charging, meaning that this patch could be too high some times
06:40:36LloreanWell, if you're afraid it's wrong you'll have to do your own research to pick values, I suppose. I certainly haven't done any on that player.
06:42:22brent113_So a question on the patches. The first one listed has different values than others down the page
06:42:32brent113_Do I need to apply these patches sequentially?
06:42:37LloreanNo, just the final one.
06:43:43brent113_So the final patch is this one:
06:43:59 Part tonyyarusso
06:44:36LloreanAt the moment, yes.
06:47:33brent113_So patching goes after the compilation?
06:48:18LloreanNo, before.
06:48:22LloreanYou patch the source files.
06:48:33brent113_Haha, I should know that :P
06:57:22brent113_Llorean, are you familiar with an 'arm-elf-gcc' missing error?
06:57:45Lloreanbrent113_: It suggests to me that you haven't properly installed the cross-compiler necessary.
06:57:53brent113_This is true
06:58:30brent113_mmk, it looks like I need to run the .sh file provided
06:58:58LloreanThat's the easiest and most reliable way in many cases, unless you're using cygwin (seems unlikely from the sound of it)
06:59:43brent113_I'm using gcc in Ubuntu
07:00:25LloreanThen you'll need to install the cross-compilers with the .sh script.
07:00:37brent113_It worked, cool, now compiling
07:01:06brent113_I took a cs261 data structures in c class, but that's the extent of c programming I've done, I'm still very fresh at these things
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07:07:51brent113_So far everything is compiling perfectly, thanks again for all of your help Llorean
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07:22:52brent113_Llorean, thank you so much, that fixed the high pitched frequency problem
07:23:07LloreanI'm glad.
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07:24:14brent113_You have no idea how much you've helped me. This weekend I am looking forward to 12 hours on the road, and I was not looking forward to listening to the whine the entire time
07:25:21LloreanYou could've always unplugged it. :-P
07:26:06brent113_:D true, but what if it ran out of battery? I'd have a few seconds without music, and that's just a tragedy
07:27:48*amiconn is still puzzled by the dropout problem at spinup on mini G2, but found 2 possible small optimisations in ata.c while researching
07:37:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:52:01*B4gder does the early morning green delta dance
07:53:52LinusNhmmm, i see a small caveat in those wait_for_xxx() functions; the last_disk_activity time stamp might not be updated if the disk is fast (likely not a problem in reality, but anyway)
07:56:04amiconnThis problem isn't new though
07:56:17LinusNno, the old code had the same issue
07:56:35amiconnyup, that's why I kept it that way
07:56:48LinusNi guess i only thought it would matter when we yield
07:57:17amiconnThere's a ton of places where this variable is updated, but if we have a long wait, it becomes important - and then it is updated
07:57:59LinusNit's probably not an issue in real life
07:58:14LinusNbut it looks like it could use some cleaning up
07:58:14amiconnThe new loops can easily be rearranged to always update it btw - just move the update before the check. I don't think that's necessary though
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07:59:56amiconnIf you're thinking of using bool return values in those wait_for_* functions - I tried that. Code becomes a _tiny_ bit larger (only on coldfire and arm)
08:01:06amiconnAnd since it would also have been a somewhat bigger change, I decided not to commit that version
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08:15:22amiconnThere's one change that probably should be done though: wait_for_bsy() should be renamed to wait_for_not_bsy(), 'cause that's what it does.
08:15:56GodEateror wait_for_idle() ?
08:16:00GodEaterwhich is slightly less clumsy ?
08:16:32GodEaterunless bsy doesn't mean "busy" in which case you may ignore that
08:17:21amiconnThe status bit it checks is called BSY in the ata standard
08:17:36GodEaterah yes of course
08:17:44GodEaterin which case yes, your name is better
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08:27:56LinusNi agree about renaming it
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09:54:03mrkikoOk guys - rockbox crashes less
09:54:08mrkikobut it crashes even with no voice
09:54:46mrkikoso - on my two H300 rockbox freezes frequently enough. Is someone using intensively rockbox on this platform?
10:04:53peturI use my h300 daily, but without voice
10:07:48 Join Nick_ [0] (
10:10:06Nick_So, I managed to get my hands on a sansa c250, however it had been wiped via a dd if=/dev/zero to the entire device. Sandisk's recovery tool doesn't do much of anything, but the device is recognized as in recovery mode via lsusb and is picked up in windows as a tango media platform.
10:10:28Nick_Anyone know if there's a way to reflash the device?
10:10:53jhMikeSamiconn: pong again
10:11:34Mouser_XNick: Check the wiki.
10:11:42B4gderNick_: you need a magic flash partition restoration tool
10:12:01B4gdergevaerts has one...
10:12:02jhMikeShmmm...the build failed to get picked up for r17409 :\
10:12:02Mouser_XTry searching "Sansa unbrick" or "Sansa Recovery"
10:12:36B4gderdo we have this c200 mess described?
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10:12:55Mouser_XFor the c200? Actually, maybe not.
10:13:05*Mouser_X hasn't actually looked himself.
10:13:18B4gderthe c200 is more fragile than the e200 on this
10:13:35Mouser_XYes, I suppose so, after seeing yesterday's log.
10:13:39Nick_B4gder: Thanks, checking into it now.
10:13:44Mouser_X(Or whenever that was.)
10:14:32B4gderNick_: you can check yesterday's irc log for how someone else restored his c200 using that tool
10:16:42Mouser_XNot a bad idea, but it might be a bit of a read.
10:16:54Mouser_XSounds like the c200 can really get messed up.
10:17:12Mouser_X(c200 series)
10:17:14B4gderyes, it seems the bootloader reads the partition info
10:17:23B4gderand goes nuts if that is wrong
10:17:51*Mouser_X has 2 e250s.
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10:18:02Mouser_X(I only use 1. I ought to sell the other.)
10:18:02Nick_Thanks B4gder, I'll read over the logs
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10:43:47amiconnjhMikeS: 'twas false alarm...
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10:54:41Nick_Well, attempted to program the i2c, and it will no longer show up on lsusb, so I get the feeling this is permanently bricked
10:55:48Nick_Was obtained via a woot bag of crap, so can't exactly hold high expectations
10:56:56gevaertsDid you try lsusb as root ?
10:57:32Nick_Heh, yeah, it's dead in the water
10:58:15*gevaerts wouldn't have touched the i2c
10:58:49Nick_Was throwing protocol errors when attempting to flash the bootloader, I'm pretty sure this thing had some bad flash
10:59:48gevaertsMaybe. The c200 OF also gives protocol errors if the partition table or file system is messed up
11:01:22gevaertsAnyway, if you don't manage to fix the i2c rom, all this is somewhat academic I guess
11:04:29Nick_Not much can be done at my level without any comm on the usb, not about to resolder the flash on something that ran $1
11:13:07LinusNamiconn: it looks like people still have problems with the remote lcd
11:13:39amiconnI know
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11:18:47Nick_gevaerts: Kind of odd it won't go into pre-bootloader mode even if the i2c is corrupted
11:19:09gevaertsNick_: I guess it needs i2c for that
11:19:46Nick_Reading up on the docs it says a fully corrupt i2c rom will kick it into prebootloader mode
11:20:27*gevaerts points to other people. He only has experience with c200s with working i2c
11:20:30Nick_Might have to dig into this thing out of sheer curiosity
11:21:01B4gdermost of that i2c magic stuff were worked out on the e200 I think
11:21:13B4gderso there's a chance the c200 series work a bit different
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11:21:31gevaertsIf you manage to fix the i2c, the nand problams are most probably fixable
11:21:33Nick_Ah, that certainly could be it
11:24:06n1sjhMikeS: nice to have ata poweroff :) i did a battery bench with my hacky approach to it yesterday in addition to disabling clocks to a bunch of unused imx31 modules and got ~1 hour improvement
11:25:05jhMikeSn1s: There's also a bus switch turn off for the drive included here (to isolate pins)
11:25:12n1sdo you have your beast hooked up to a multimeter?
11:25:58jhMikeSI could. It's not quite as simple as doing it on the F but that's how I checked the voltage readout.
11:26:38n1smuch faster way to check is turning off the clocks to the unused modules save anything though
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11:27:58n1sjhMikeS: do I need to care about the states of modules that we never use before gating the clocks?
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11:29:15stonekeeperHi. I'm trying to reset my 5gen video ipod back to default firmware to start from scratch. Managed to uninstall rockbox but the default firmware takes ages to load now. Is there a way i can fix this without installing itunes in vmware? cheers.
11:29:36jhMikeSn1s: yes, they must be disabled (using whatever bit does that in each module). Even the i2s and SPI modules should be included in advance and will be enabled by the first user.
11:29:56gevaertsstonekeeper: have a look at
11:30:08GodEaterstonekeeper: the default firmware ALWAYS took ages to load - but it should only need to load once, and subsequently "powering off" only put the ipod to sleep, which is fast to resume from
11:30:33stonekeeperok thanks
11:30:43jhMikeSI'm sure it'll save something. RetailOS is good about doing that. I think the biggest savings will come from DVFS. It's alarming to have > 1A of power supply capacity for powerin the core :)
11:31:11n1sjhMikeS: ok, I will dig through the datasheet and disable what I can :)
11:32:04n1syeah, the pmic even has capability of dual 1A supplies coupling the buck switchers IIUC
11:34:16n1sjhMikeS: should we only enable i2c/spi when they are about to be used and then disable them again?
11:35:54jhMikeSsystem_init should just unclock stuff and the drivers handle that already.
11:37:10jhMikeSthat should all be done before the other device init calls there
11:37:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:38:44*n1s disables
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11:41:50*jhMikeS should bench his own and see if n1s has an iffy battery
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11:42:09n1sjhMikeS: btw what do you think about displaying battery voltage and shutting off backlight in the bootloader?
11:42:39 Quit Nick_ ("Ex-Chat")
11:43:58n1sjhMikeS: my last bechmark wasn't that well carried out... i had made a mistake so rockbox froze on the first rebuffer so i had to reset and extract a new build :)
11:44:07n1sstill 1h improvement though
11:44:26jhMikeSI think the bl should do that actually
11:45:14n1si actually meant shutting off the backlight in usb mode in the bootloader
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11:47:26jhMikeSof course, though if that is done we need to read buttons (though a simple check of the keydown status is needed and not a full button decode)
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11:51:33jhMikeSI wouldn't bother with starting the backlight stuff if USB isn't connected
11:52:19n1sthe backlight is already on when we start the bootloader though
11:54:11jhMikeSI thought you wanted it to go on and off when USB is connected
11:55:19n1syeah, ah i think i misunderstood you, "starting the backlight stuff" == caring about backlight state?
11:56:09jhMikeSNo reason to care normally
11:56:32n1sok, then we mean the same thing, yes that's what i want to do
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12:04:00stonekeepergevaerts: heh, I'm getting that "argsize must be less than 6" error from mtools some people speak about, bt nobody can fix
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12:08:34linuxstbstonekeeper: I believe you need to use "-n" instead of "-s"
12:09:21 Quit PaulJam (".")
12:13:03stonekeeperlinuxstb: yeah, i thought that until i realised i was not specifying sectors
12:15:23*jhMikeS wonder why people post test_disk result that were obtained with dircache enabled
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12:51:48orchi, I need help
12:52:21orcwhen I can download datasheet on iPod nano 1 gen?
12:52:31orcsorry my English
12:52:50Mouser_XI'm not aware of one existing.
12:52:58Mouser_XChances are that you'd have to read the code.
12:53:06Mouser_X(The Rockbox C code, that is.)
12:53:23Mouser_X(That's where most of Rockbox's hardware documentation is, I hear.)
12:53:36orcI have hardware problem
12:54:06orcI think USB-function on ARM-chip is destroyed
12:54:38Mouser_XIn what way?
12:54:56orcsorry, I understnd
12:55:11Mouser_XAs in, how? To my knowledge, Rockbox doesn't have USB mode stuff enabled for iPods yet.
12:55:34Mouser_X(Thus, if anything isn't working, then I'd think it was something done by the user.)
12:56:22orciPod don't active in disc mode
12:56:45Statusi wonder when the hell a joystick or something is gonna be made for sansa so ppl can just plug a controller and play doom on it without having to use sansa's buttons :D
12:56:58gevaertsorc: Are you sure that your cable is good ?
12:57:36orccable 100% good
12:57:40jhMikeShmmm...rolo needs to be fixed up for devices that don't use IRAM since we'll copying the new image over the current one
12:57:54Mouser_Xorc: That doesn't tell me much. Are you saying when you plug a USB cable into your iPod, that it doesn't go into USB mode (meaning, it'd have to reboot, and start the disc mode)?
12:58:41gevaertsHow do you know the cable is good ? Does it work on another ipod ?
12:58:56orcI ring him
12:58:58stonekeeperthanks guys
12:58:59 Part stonekeeper
12:59:10Mouser_XStatus: First off, someone needs to write drivers for that. Meaning, drivers for the serial port of the Sansa.
12:59:50orchave to reboot, and start the disc mode - don't. I did it
13:02:13orcI think I need change controller
13:02:53orcreally buy it?
13:03:31 Join barrywardell [0] (
13:05:09Statusjust asking...cose it'd be damn cool to play games on an mp3-player
13:05:37orcor buy new player(
13:06:11Mouser_XStatus: iPodlinux has drivers for the serial port. I've seen someone use a NES controller to play DOOM. However, that's off-topic.
13:06:26Mouser_X(This is Rockbox, not iPodlinux.)
13:06:52Statuswell...we're talking features ;]
13:07:05orc3 firmware on player isn't good
13:07:22Statusorc huh
13:07:30n1sjhMikeS: why don't we use iram for rolo like the gigabeat f does?
13:07:32*Mouser_X has no iPod, and thus doesn't care about features/accessories pertaining to it.
13:07:52Statusi dont have an ipod either ;]
13:08:02orcwhat mind huh?
13:08:26Statusorc mind = means?
13:08:40Statusmeans u're kinda hard to understand ;]
13:11:08orc3 firmware don't usability
13:11:42 Part orc
13:11:53Mouser_Xorc: I'm having a difficult time understanding you. "3 firmware don't usability" means nothing useful to me... Sorry.
13:12:45Statusthat was awkward hehe ;]
13:13:13Statusmust be hard when u know what u wanna say but dont know how to ;/
13:17:37jhMikeSn1s: since when does it?
13:17:50jhMikeSI'm going to for S and copy the firmware from that
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13:18:18newbie8787hello everyone
13:18:52*GodEater laments his lack of dev environment at work once more
13:19:07newbie8787i was wondering if we will get a port of rockbox for the 2nd gen nano?
13:19:12n1sjhMikeS: I'm fairly sure it does, rolo_restart() uses the section attribute explicitly and when I tried to change that someone yelled at me ;)
13:19:22GodEaternewbie8787: only if someone starts one
13:19:23Mouser_Xnewbie8787: Only if someone works on it.
13:19:30*GodEater high fives Mouser_X
13:19:35Mouser_X:( beat by GodEater.
13:19:43 Quit Hidden (Remote closed the connection)
13:19:44n1s...tried to change that to ICODE_ATTR (which is defined to be empty for gigabeat f)
13:19:50newbie8787:P wish i could ! but i just heard abt this and so i came looking
13:20:05newbie8787and lo i see that my nano is not supported :(
13:20:15Mouser_Xnewbie8787: One of the biggest hurdles is that the firmware is encrypted.
13:20:24Mouser_XIf you could decrypt that, that'd be a start.
13:20:28GodEaternewbie8787: read here :
13:21:14newbie8787is there any starting point to learning how to do so ?
13:21:20*Mouser_X concedes to GodEater's superiority.
13:21:26*Mouser_X never checks the forums.
13:21:30jhMikeSI'm just going to write a small stub in assembly that's similar to the remap technique in the bootloader
13:21:49GodEaternewbie8787: read up on cryptanalysis
13:22:05Mouser_Xnewbie8787: And pray.
13:22:13GodEaterMouser_X: not superior, I just remember updating that thread the other day ;)
13:22:20Statusapple doesnt provide hardware?
13:22:32GodEaterStatus: provide it to whom ?
13:22:40Mouser_XStatus: Sure they do. If you pay them.
13:22:43Statusrockbox's devs?
13:22:48GodEaterhell no
13:22:53GodEaterwhy would they ?
13:22:57 Quit newbie8787 ("Take my advice. I don't use it anyway")
13:23:06Mouser_XIndeed @ GodEater.
13:23:20Statuscose lots of ppl like rockbox...and having the option to use whatever = more people buying their stuff ;]
13:23:26Mouser_X(Like I said though, if you pay them, they'll be more than happy to provide.)
13:23:50Mouser_XStatus: Please avoid abbreviation.
13:23:51GodEaterStatus: we work on the theory that Rockbox = Support nightmare for apple
13:24:41GodEaterthey have no control over the rockbox code base, and therefore cannot guarantee to their customers that it will not hose their precious ipod. Therefore they are not fans of Rockbox.
13:24:45Statusthey could just say they dont support it from their side and about it like sansa...
13:24:53Statusprovide hardware but not support ;]
13:24:59GodEaterthey could, but they don't
13:25:28Statuscheap a**** ;]
13:25:35GodEateron current ipods it's pretty easy to remove all trace of Rockbox and return it to apple when you hit a problem.
13:25:53GodEaterTherefore apple don't know if the ipod broke because of Rockbox, or because of some other reason
13:26:09Mouser_X^ My suggestion in this instance involves a sledgehammer.
13:26:13GodEaterthis may or may not be the reason behind their locking down of the platform, but it's the only plausible reason we've come up with
13:26:31Statuscould also be for losing $$ on itunes ;]
13:26:35Mouser_X(And vigor and gusto.)
13:26:44GodEaterthere's no reason they would lose out on iTunes
13:26:56GodEaterall iTunes plus tracks are perfectly playbable in Rockbox
13:27:05GodEaterso people can still obtain their music there
13:27:07Statusyeah..but u have to pay for them no?
13:27:17B4gderespecially these days of companies going DRM free anyway
13:27:28Mouser_XYay @ DRM free!
13:27:46GodEaterStatus: I'm not sure what you think Rockbox has to do with paying / not paying for music
13:27:58B4gderStatus: we pay for music
13:28:09StatusB4gder most people dont ;]
13:28:18desowinyou order cd, rip it, encode whatever format you like, and put it on dap
13:28:20GodEaterI strongly disagree with that statement
13:28:20B4gderI don't think that statement is true
13:28:51Statusi for one dont..and if i do is by buying mixed cds ;]
13:28:56*Mouser_X gets his music from games (yes, with the right tools, you can get the music out of the video games themselves).
13:29:03Statusi'd never buy a cd because of 2 songs
13:29:30B4gderwe do not endorse piracy
13:29:33*Mouser_X owns 10 actual audio CDs.
13:29:43*GodEater owns hundreds of cds
13:29:54Mouser_X(The vast majority of my music comes from video games.)
13:30:00StatusB4gder yeah...but its a fact ;]
13:30:10*desowin owns not much cds, just 43 albums
13:30:17Statusso apple would lose $$ from the people using rockbox
13:30:22Mouser_XStatus: It is very unwise to carry your current conversation here.
13:30:22desowin(few of them are digipacks and limited editions)
13:30:38GodEaterStatus: again I don't follow your logic there
13:30:54B4gderStatus: no they won't
13:31:10GodEaterwhilst we do not endorse it, there's nothing stopping you using pirated music on an ipod without Rockbox on it
13:31:33n1sStatus: nothing prevents people from playing prated music in the apple firmware
13:31:36GodEaterso that argument is specious
13:31:45desowinoh, I also bought some tunes online, yeah, it's a bit more of what music I paid for
13:31:56desowinalso, there's good music on jamendo too
13:32:28Statusdesowin there's websites for fixed prices a month ;]
13:32:42Statusim thinking of getting on one of those ;]
13:33:56Statusreplacing *all* my songs with downloaded ones from there since i saw someone that was raided..had a few thousands of songs all from his cds...and 20 something downloaded...he still got sued for those 20 something songs
13:34:04Statusthese people are money-hungry ;/
13:35:11desowinalso, you can listen to internet radios, like munichshardesthits
13:35:26desowinalso, I think it's offtopic here
13:35:45desowinand if it should be continued, then #rockbox-community is the correct place
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13:37:08*preglow doesn't mind paying for good music
13:37:21Statusloll ;]
13:37:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:38:51Status1 simple question...would you buy an album for 1 song? because that song is like stuck on your head or because its #1?
13:39:09 Quit petur (Nick collision from services.)
13:39:10GodEaterI would
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13:39:14GodEaterand have done frequently
13:39:23preglowi have as well, and i always regret it afterwards
13:39:32preglowtehre are more than enough albums that are all good out there
13:39:39GodEaterI tend not to - if I like one song on an album, there's a good chance I'll like others
13:40:13preglowbut yeah, i tend to listen to albums more than single tracks, so i tend to just ignore an album if it's just got a couple of good tracks
13:40:17preglowanyway, off-topic
13:40:34GodEatervery much so, here endeth the conversation
13:42:52 Join MauS [0] (n=maus-san@
13:43:02MauSHello everyone ^_^
13:43:13markunhi MauS
13:43:23MauSHey amiconn! I've got my ground contact fixed in an easy way ^_^
13:44:27MauSThat was a conector between two pcbs inside the M3 that was causing bad contact.
13:45:45MauSSo i just put a 1mm thick piece of eraser between the pcb and the cover. It still loses contact when pushing the connector with a thumb, but it won't lose contact while carrying it ^_^
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14:09:28Nico_Pwow, almost fully green build table :)
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14:15:32*jhMikeS doesn't want to spoil that with current build since it will be all green otherwise
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14:15:58jhMikeSbah, there's a red "4" sneaked in there
14:16:04GodEaterjhMikeS: any idea how far we are from audio on the beast ?
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14:16:17jhMikeSGodEater: about -1 week :)
14:16:21Nico_Phehe :)
14:16:25GodEaterI missed it ? :)
14:16:56*GodEater scolds himself a lot
14:17:26*gevaerts blames jhMikeS. He didn't send out the traditional mail
14:17:47GodEateryeah - I just checked the mailling lists
14:17:49*jhMikeS never was good at tradition (just ask around the holday's :)
14:17:52GodEaterthere's no "Ladies and Gentlemen"
14:18:17GodEatersomeone needs to send one!
14:18:18*jhMikeS suggest "Ladies and Gentlemen - we've had sound!!!"
14:18:26GodEatereven if they make up the "first track" bit
14:18:41*petur wonders what song it was
14:18:57jhMikeSwhich mailing list? user?
14:19:02GodEateryeah ser
14:19:20Nico_Pboth !
14:19:25GodEaterif audio is working, how come there's no S build in the current build table then ?
14:19:26*gevaerts supposes that lots of those mails contain lies. The first sound must have been noise quite often
14:19:42Nico_PGodEater: it still needs some polish
14:19:56GodEaterNico_P: which build of Rockbox doesn't ? :)
14:19:59Mouser_XGodEater: I've heard it's because there's no good way to install Rockbox from Windows.
14:19:59Nico_Palso the install is hard
14:20:02jhMikeSgevaerts: to an extent I can't begin to describe :)
14:20:07Mouser_X(Or is the lack of a manual?)
14:20:27*GodEater doesn't think the install is "hard", it's just not straight forward :)
14:20:44Mouser_XIt's a serious pain for Windows users...
14:20:46Nico_Pon windows, it's really a PITA from what I've heard
14:20:48Mouser_XVery very nasty.
14:20:55n1syeah, 1) install linux, 2) use sendfirm :)
14:21:01GodEaterNico_P: I did my first install from windows
14:21:03*Nico_P has access to windows machines for a few days
14:21:15gevaertsActually, from reading those mails, the reported first sound often looks to me as quite likely to be noise :)
14:21:17GodEateralthough sendfirm *is* much easier
14:21:37GodEaterare we still sending the rockbox build as a .tar file too ?
14:21:43n1sjhMikeS: is it a Bad Idea (tm) to enable/disable clock for the KPP in the interrupt handler?
14:22:04Nico_PjhMikeS: does r17414 fix RoLo?
14:22:09Mouser_XGodEater: Now that the bootloader has a UMS mode built in, there's no need.
14:22:10n1sGodEater: nope we have proper UMS
14:22:20Mouser_XThe code is still present, just in case though.
14:22:22n1sindeed :)
14:22:28Mouser_X(At least, I think it is.)
14:22:32GodEaterdammit - why did I have to leave my S at home today!!
14:22:35n1sMouser_X: correct
14:22:49Nico_PGodEater: you have to see the buffering speed too :)
14:23:00GodEaterNico_P: it's good / bad ?
14:23:07Mouser_XGood, IIRC.
14:23:07Nico_Pimpressively good
14:23:10GodEaterB4gder: any news on the source tarball at all ?
14:23:36*n1s tries
14:23:38B4gderah, no I've managed to just neglect that
14:23:54*GodEater awards B4gder a special "I've forgotten about it on purpose" badge
14:24:16*B4gder looks at the nice patterns in the ceiling and whistles
14:24:42Mouser_XI've heard "Gullible" is written up there.
14:24:42*GodEater wonders if B4gder is wearing a "go away or I shall replace you with a very small shell script" T-shirt today
14:25:09GodEaterMouser_X: that's where it went after they removed it from the dictionary ?
14:25:30Mouser_XIf I spelled it correctly (I did?!) then possibly.
14:26:50B4gderGodEater: no, people know that without me having to announce it! ;-P
14:27:12GodEaterB4gder: a deal then. You either fix the source tarball so I can build it myself - or you include the S in the current builds ?
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14:27:30B4gderyou can already get the S builds
14:27:38B4gderhang on
14:28:05GodEaterI'd need the bootloader too
14:28:17BigBambiGodEater: I can build you one if you like
14:28:36n1sjhMikeS: ignore me, that wouldn't work
14:28:37Mouser_XBigBambi: I'd like one too, while you're at it...
14:28:44GodEaterBigBambi: that would be lovely ;)
14:28:53BigBambidual boot I assume (charging is handy...)
14:28:58B4gderI should still fix the source of course
14:28:59GodEateryes please
14:29:05GodEaterB4gder: ideally yes ;)
14:32:28Mouser_XIf the 'beast build is giong to be downloadable, perhaps the front paage should be changeed to reflect that the S is supported now?
14:32:39Mouser_XOr is it not quite ready for that?
14:32:51Mouser_X(I'm guessing it's not quite ready.)
14:33:18B4gderthe install method needs to be polished, afaiu
14:33:23jhMikeSn1s: what wouldn't work? I was sending a mail.
14:33:29Mouser_XAh. Indeed it does.
14:33:31BigBambiI don't think it is ready for that
14:33:41DerPapstwhile adding a new comment with patch to flyspray yelled at me
14:33:46Mouser_X(Installing on Windows sucks. I gave up, and had to use Linux.)
14:33:49n1sjhMikeS: nvm, my brain is apparently not working today :)
14:33:51BigBambiInstall (at least from Windows) is a bit of a nightmare
14:34:19GodEaterI would guess if we've not smoothed out the install from windows it's not a good idea
14:34:19GodEaterotherwise we'll be flooded with "how do I?" or "I've bricked my" support requests
14:34:43BigBambiGodEater, Mouser_X: I'm just about to test it, but it should be fine
14:34:44Mouser_XGodEater: The 'beast is rather resiliant.
14:35:06Mouser_XIt's difficult to completely brick it.
14:35:32GodEaterMouser_X: yes, but it might *appear* bricked to our technically challenged user base
14:35:33Mouser_X(Though, it's fairly easy to make it want to format the drive and request new firmware.)
14:35:40*BigBambi points Mouser_X at LambdaCalculus
14:35:51BigBambiAlthough that was nothing to do with Rockbox :)
14:35:58GodEaterso many of them use the word "bricked" when it's not actually an accurate description of the state of their DAP
14:36:28Mouser_XBigBambi: Thanks for the BL.
14:36:32BigBambino probs
14:36:35GodEaterindeed thanks BigBambi
14:36:42BigBambiany time :)
14:36:51Mouser_XUnless it's 1 am...
14:36:58*Mouser_X tried that once.
14:37:28DerPapstpetur: i've removed all bload from the old flashlight plugin and only kept the buttonlight stuff in. Would be cool if that can be commited.
14:37:34GodEaterto be honest, if any of the people who came to us for help had really bricked their DAPS, there's very little we can do for them
14:37:36DerPapst*bloat even
14:38:08*BigBambi loves the ease of upgrading the beast bootloader
14:38:31Mouser_XGodEater: Occasionally truelly bricked devices can be fixed with external hardware.
14:38:43Mouser_XLike a Jplug, or whatever that thing is...
14:38:54Mouser_XThat's the one.
14:38:58BigBambiH100 and H300 are the culprits there
14:39:26Mouser_XI thought toffe had some form of Jtag for the Gigabeat. I'm likely mistaken...
14:39:36BigBambiMouser_X: quite possibly
14:39:42Mouser_X(I know someone had one for the m:500)
14:39:43GodEaterMouser_X: yes, but I think LinusN is the only person who can do that
14:39:50GodEaterand I *think* he's only done it for the H1xx
14:39:58BigBambiBut I was talking about needing hardware to recover bad flashes on the H1xx (and H3xx)
14:40:03*jhMikeS wonders where the message ran off to :\
14:40:13BigBambineed to use the bdm jobby for that I believe
14:40:17GodEatertoffe had identified the JTAG on the Gigabeat, but I don't believe he has the hardware to use it
14:40:35GodEaterI'm willing to be corrected though
14:40:42*BigBambi was about to say which is why he only uses Linus
14:40:48jhMikeSah, there it be
14:41:02*petur feels the urge to close the flashlight patch as invalid, because there is no such thing as a flashlight plugin :)
14:41:18BigBambi...N tested bootloaders on his h140, before realising he is currently using an untested v7pre4 from Slasheri
14:41:23GodEaterhehe nice mail
14:41:30BigBambiI've got reckless in my old age
14:41:54GodEaterI've got a v7pre3 on mine I think
14:41:58*petur sees the patch naming has followed...
14:42:14BigBambipre3 didn't let me turn on with the remote
14:42:24GodEaterI stopped using the remote a long time ago
14:42:34GodEaternot even sure where mine is
14:42:38BigBambiButton detection needed a bit more of a delay, and it reckoned hold was permenently on
14:42:46BigBambiI'm a huge fan of the lcd remote
14:42:53GodEaterI liked it too
14:42:58GodEaterbut it proved unreliable in the gym
14:43:23GodEaterbesides which, the cable on my Sure E2Cs is SO long anyway, that plugging them into the remote was just plain silly
14:43:25*BigBambi doesn't have that problem :)
14:43:29GodEatereven if they'd do
14:43:30BigBambiBut I should :/
14:43:41GodEaterwhich they don't because the plug is too big
14:45:34GodEaterwhen you next in Blighty BigBambi?
14:45:40BigBambiDon't know
14:45:47BigBambiNo set plans
14:46:01DerPapstpetur: ;-)
14:46:41GodEatermaybe you should try and come back over on the 5th/6th July
14:46:41GodEaterand meet up with me and scorche ?
14:46:41GodEaterif you can manage that weekend
14:46:54BigBambiI'll check it out
14:47:11peturDerPapst: how well was that tested? I don't have a target with button lights
14:47:32DerPapstworks fine on my e200
14:47:42DerPapstshould work fine on gigabeat f as well
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14:47:57DerPapstbut i don't knwo if it has been tested on a f yet.
14:48:12peturwell that's ok then I suppose
14:48:51peturI might have a some room in my agenda tonight very late :/
14:49:13Mouser_XGodEater: The 'beast gets upset when you format/repartition/resize the drive.
14:49:28Mouser_Xlinuxstb tried it out, as I recall.
14:49:46Mouser_XApparently, it's TFAT, not FAT32.
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14:49:58DerPapstpetur: ok. thanks. but don't forget to bump the plugin api version. somehow that part got excluded in the diff.
14:50:02Mouser_X(there was a link to some MS page about it. check the logs.)
14:50:06GodEaterwth is TFAT ?
14:50:12linuxstbYes, even reformatting the bootloader partition will cause the beast to enter recovery mode
14:50:44linuxstbYou can change the labels (TFAT) though...
14:51:23GodEaterthe format is indicated in the label ?
14:52:05linuxstbThe label is just the label...
14:53:17Mouser_XGodEater: right at the beggining of the logs -
14:53:28Mouser_X(MS page about TFAT.)
14:54:05peturhmmm probably patented by MS
14:54:18Mouser_XThere's a good chance of that.
14:55:17gevaertsIs that really a problem ? All we need is compatibility, if we don't implement actual transaction support I would expect that we're fine
14:56:10peturreading, yes, writing might be tricky
14:56:11Mouser_XI haven't had any problems myself, but I've heard that others have.
14:56:48*Mouser_X has already put ~45 GB his 'beast, and would prefer it to not format itself...
14:56:54GodEaterlinuxstb: so can you just format as FAT32, and then mark the parition as TFAT somehow ?
14:57:05GodEateror is it not that simple ?
14:57:33linuxstbI've no idea what TFAT entails... Just that if I do a normal mkfs.vfat -F32 (or mformat) on the bootloader partition, the beast is unhappy.
14:57:57GodEaterbut it doesn't care on the data partition ?
14:58:10linuxstbI can't remember if I tested that.
14:58:20Mouser_XIt'd be nice to resize the firmware partition... 150 GB seems a little overkill.
14:58:33linuxstb150GB would be....
14:58:46GodEateryeah - that would be an extreme waste
14:58:52GodEatereven my linux install isn't that big
14:59:33Mouser_XThat's how big the firmware partition is on my 'beast.
14:59:46Mouser_XTypo attack.
14:59:51linuxstbReally? ;)
15:00:20Mouser_XHeh. That'd be nice if I had a HDD that big though...
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15:09:32*Mouser_X misses the "Hello World!" in the bootloader...
15:10:07*Mouser_X will learn to live with out it.
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15:14:19kkurbjunjhMikeS, nls: the gigabeat F does not use IRAM for ROLO. On the F ROLO copies the new boot to 0x31000000 which is a mirror of 0x01000000, but uncached, and jumps to that address Then crt0.s takes care of making sure that the code is in the appropriate location, and if it is not, copies it to 0x0 after setting up the MMU.
15:14:47kkurbjunit then jumps to it's continue point at 0x0+&continue
15:16:11jhMikeSkkurbjun: IRAM on the S works just fine so that no crazy stuff like that needs doing
15:16:14kkurbjunthe big portion of the rolo functionality for the F was committed separate from the actual rolo "implementation"
15:16:22kkurbjunwell, that's better then
15:16:38kkurbjunmost of the code for rolo was actually done to get the flash booting working
15:17:04kkurbjunand to make sure that when the new code with flash support was committed the old bootloaders didn't break
15:18:19LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: Since RoLo works on the S, I guess I can mention it in the manual, then.
15:18:59jhMikeSLambdaCalculus37: it should since the problem with a different build should be solved so I guess that is safe
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15:19:49kkurbjunjhMikeS: on the gigabeat F you had noticed the high power consumption when sound hadn't been started right?
15:20:07jhMikeSkkurbjun: yeah, you found out why?
15:20:26kkurbjunDid you have any leads on where it might be.. not yet, I need to get my gdb loader working soe I can do some HW breakpoints...
15:20:40kkurbjunright now the F isn't properly shutting down
15:20:49kkurbjunit's rebooting when we "shutdown"
15:20:58kkurbjunand the OF is taking care of the actual power down
15:21:31kkurbjunwith my "fixed" code I see the high power consumption remain even after the processor has been put to sleep for real
15:21:50kkurbjunif sound is started it shows less power
15:21:57jhMikeSthe amount of current used right after startup was rather similar to a powered HD and that's all I know about it
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15:22:42jhMikeSit has HD poweroff?
15:23:07kkurbjunI thought so..
15:23:14jhMikeShmmm, not implemented
15:23:27kkurbjunI'll look there first then
15:23:57 Quit mrkiko (Remote closed the connection)
15:24:54jhMikeSoh, wait, duh...was looking at sim stubs :p\
15:25:33kkurbjunI gotta run - time for work
15:26:23jhMikeShave fun :)
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16:12:59kugelIs there a wiki page on how to replace the sansa e200 bootloader with the rockbox one?
16:13:15krazykitkugel, i believe the process is on the bug tracker
16:13:44kugelkrazykit: I know, I also found this page. But I'm not sure if it's complete
16:14:17kugelf.e. on the e200r installation wiki, it says I need to have the OF.bin in the system folder. I'd like to be sure if I need that for e200 too or not
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16:22:09TheNumberSalut !
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16:53:13kugelSo, can anyone tell me, if I need anything to do/make sure before or after running sansapatch -bl?
16:53:32kugelsansapatcher rather
16:55:35krazykitkugel, why not just try it? you can just throw it in manufacturer mode and recover easily anyway.
16:55:58kugelBut that mean that I have to reboot my pc :(
16:56:27GodEatervmware ?
16:56:37GodEaterno reboot required then
16:59:46kugelThat doesn't work. If I disconnect the sansa from the pc in order to get it connected in the vm, the sansa doesn't reconnect, since it's waiting for the reboot. At least that's how it happens here with vbox
17:00:37GodEaterBigBambi got it to work...
17:00:47GodEaterer no he didn't
17:00:50GodEaterI mean bascule!
17:03:28*BigBambi denies he ever got anything to work ever
17:03:29*kugel tries to remember how to compile svn sansapatcher with svn bootloader...did it once but has forgotten it
17:05:04DerPapst_for ipodpatcher you have to edit the makefile
17:08:02krazykitkugel, you'll want OF.bin
17:08:26krazykiti just tried it :)
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17:12:29kugelkrazykit: heh, thanks
17:15:40kugelkrazykit: So, I basically need e200tool everytime i format then?
17:17:01krazykitkugel, only if you didn't add the OF.
17:17:17krazykityou need e200tool to recover the bootloader, since you blew it away with rockbox's
17:17:38kugelbut when I need the of, and the of.mi4 is missing?
17:18:13kugelyou said I need that file
17:18:14krazykitthen you need to recover the bootloader so you can get into the OF for usb (unless your rockbox build is usb-enabled)
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17:21:22kugelkrazykit: ok, again, I don't quite get this. Do I need OF.mi4 in the system folder to be able to boot into the of or not? if not, which OF.bin where you talking about?
17:22:17krazykitkugel, you need OF.mi4 (i used whatever is on Bagder's site, just renamed) in the system folder to boot into the OF.
17:23:59kugelif sansa bootloader is able to load rockbox bootloader, why isn't the opposite possible? :)
17:24:36n1sjhMikeS: here is my patch for disabling some stuff and clock gating a lot of stuff on startup if you want to take a look
17:25:41preglowjhMikeS: congrats :)
17:30:51Topy44hm... has anyone tried reimplementing the REPs histogram and balance meter functions lately? about a year ago i made a build for my x5 with all of it working, but so many things changed since...
17:30:53 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
17:31:30BigBambiTopy44: I don't believe anyone is mantaining the REP, no
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17:32:44Topy44is anyone even actively working on the recording functions? its my main reason for using rockbox... (the original firmware supports mp3 recording only)
17:33:18BigBambiI don't think anyone is specifically right now, but I am probably wrong
17:33:33BigBambiAlso, I don't know what everyone is doing with their time :)
17:34:15jhMikeSn1s: looks good. I'd suggest putting the CCMR write first so that the WFI instruction is set correctly right off.
17:35:06n1sjhMikeS: thanks for looking, will commit with that change
17:35:23jhMikeSpreglow: the mail? guess it was a little behind. :)
17:35:46preglowjhMikeS: hadn't heard of it anyway
17:35:49jhMikeScould save some bytes by putting the modules to disable in an array
17:36:30n1sindeed, I should have thought of that :)
17:36:41jhMikeSpreglow: that's why it was "Ladies and gentlemen - we have _had_ SOUND!!" :)
17:37:19amiconnOh! It's gone now? ;)
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17:38:38jhMikeSI think that would be "we had had SOUND!!" </pedantic>
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17:40:30jhMikeSn1s: I tried remasking other ints (besides USB, charge, power button) at shutdown and all the same stuff still triggers powerup
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17:41:25n1sjhMikeS: it definitely disabled the alarm powerup at least... I will retest though
17:42:10jhMikeSmc1378_alarm_start <== ??
17:42:15*LambdaCalculus37 needs to seriously update his beast when it comes back
17:43:22toffe82if it comes back ;)
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17:43:33n1sjhMikeS: feel free to make up a better name :)
17:43:51jhMikeSn1s: how about mc13783_alarm_start :)
17:44:20*n1s hides...
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17:44:53jhMikeSn1s: forgot the "3"
17:45:07n1syup, I'll fix
17:46:13jhMikeSn1s: it might be a good idea to set the alarm regs to max values when its disabled like after initial powerup (to assure the event doesn't happen)
17:47:38n1sjhMikeS: but i like that when i want to set the alarm the next time the time i set earlier is saved so i just press select to set the same, maybe setting just the DAYA to max is enough
17:50:32*jhMikeS wonders why an nvram entry doesn't exist for that.
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17:51:25 Quit AndyIL ()
17:52:00n1sjhMikeS: do you think we should use the internal pmic ram as nvram?
17:52:33jhMikeSwon't it lose it if the batt switch is turned off?
17:54:00n1si'd guess so, tht's why I'm asking
17:54:15jhMikeSnot very non-volatile then I'd say
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17:55:16*jhMikeS wants a coincell hw mod
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18:00:33jhMikeSam I missing something or is the memory just two registers?
18:03:05kugelhow do i get to know the device node of my e200?
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18:10:41skull0Hello friends!
18:11:35n1sjhMikeS: i think that's correct 24 bytes each
18:12:34skull0I like run rockbox on a mp4 player I just found it has a chipset vibratto s ES6168A and seems to be a risc proc is there a way to make rock runs on that>? thanks for any comments
18:13:04n1sskull0: you would need to port it which requires a lot of work and skill
18:13:34n1sjhMikeS: using an array saved ~200 bytes :)
18:13:56 Quit pixelma (" #rockbox, #rockbox-community /")
18:14:37skull0I see but I dont care if take me a lot of time it worths
18:14:49skull0some idea where to start?
18:15:17skull0I was thinking how to id the risc proc, but have no clue
18:16:06Lloreanskull0: You were referenced to this page yesterday as well.
18:17:03skull0I think its was
18:17:11skull0or at least I have seen that
18:17:15skull0sorry to bother
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18:18:18skull0ill be back form time on time here
18:18:30skull0See ya and thanks again
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18:21:36bertrikwhat current is generally used for charging lithium batteries in rockbox?
18:21:51bertrikwould C/3 be a good default?
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18:36:11n1shmm, system-imx31.c and lcd-imx31.c don't have any headers... is it ok for me to assign the copyright to whoever made the first non trivial code commit or what?
18:37:15jhMikeSaren't they *-target.h already?
18:38:07jhMikeSoh, you don't mean the *.h but the rockbox header
18:38:27jhMikeSI think some are missing keywords too
18:38:36*n1s will check that
18:38:50jhMikeSand eol-style native
18:39:05n1sa fun note, most of the gigabeast files are (C) 2006 LinusN...
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18:48:50Nico_Pn1s: does setting svn:eolstyle change the eols?
18:49:24*Nico_P goes to read the svn book
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18:50:10n1sI'm not really sure what it does but it should be native :)
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18:53:46Nico_Phmm, I could've avoided a lot of wasted time if I had read up on that property
18:54:15n1sI read about it now too, seems a very good thing :)
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18:55:06kugelHas anyone tried the latest svn bootloader for e200?
18:55:13kugelI'm not sure, but I think it's broken
18:55:18bertrikok silly question, what type should I use to store 8 bits? byte, unsigned char or uint8_t?
18:55:34kugelI wasn't able to boot after installing it
18:55:52Nico_Pbertrik: I think the portable way is uint8_t, but I'm no expert
18:59:01bertrikpff, or maybe just an int. I'm seeing code where byte is used as a type and other code where it is used as a variable name (but is actually an int)
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19:01:24bertrikoh it seems there's no code in firmware/ that uses 'byte'
19:02:10n1sbertrike i think taht's only used in imported code
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19:07:29kugelOkay, when I enter B in tools/configure, a valid rockbox bootloader (named bootloader.bin) should be build, or am I wrong?
19:08:49bertrikkugel: I haven't built and tested an e200 bootloader lately, but I installed a new one last week using rbutil and that one works fine
19:09:01bertrikversion 4.0 IIRC
19:09:56kugelit says my bootloader.bin is not a rockbox bootloader
19:10:25kugelrbutil installs the old but stable bootloader IIRC
19:10:36kugelwhich would be v4 yes
19:10:56kugelbut I want to compile a newer version myself, it just doesn't work
19:11:04domonokyrbutil install whatever bootloader is on :-)
19:11:43bertrikI do see a rockbox logo on a black background now, I thought it is the new bootloader doing that
19:11:53Lloreankugel: Don't you also get a .mi4 file from the bootloader install?
19:11:55kugelwhich was updated in oct 07
19:12:33kugelLlorean: Hmm, indeed. I didn't see that
19:12:43kugelno idea why
19:13:14LloreanBut intermediate bootloaders don't always work. We don't concentrate on keeping them working, because people shouldn't be compiling their own one. Focus is on the main build until we decide to release a newer bootloader version.
19:14:30kugelLlorean: As long as I know what to do if it fails, I'll be fine I think
19:14:52kugelIt's not the first time I build my own bootloader, but it's been ages since then
19:16:04kugelLlorean: Thank you very much. It's working. I really wonder how I couldn't see that file. I used the bootloader.bin in the bootloader subdir instead :/
19:16:34kugelBTW, there's no wiki on bootloader building and installation, such one could've helped me alot
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19:20:31Lloreankugel: Frankly, it's better if people come ask first before compiling their own bootloader.
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19:21:05Nico_Pdo VBS scripts *need* to have CRLF line endings?
19:22:05*DerPapst hopes the beast bootloader is an exception :-P
19:22:17amiconnNico_P: yes
19:22:42Nico_PI guessed so. I propose setting that EOL style in svn then
19:22:58amiconnI did set it on sapi_voice.vbs iirc
19:23:22amiconnSome other vb scripts can probably be removed as they're no longer used
19:23:27Nico_Pah yes, you did. I'll do it for the others in my upcoming commit
19:23:55LloreanDerPapst: Well, bootloader instructions for the E200 are probably on a deleted page, I think. They were there, while work was being done, but since the page was about the install process the current revision of it basically just says "See the manual." I wouldn't be surprised if someone who felt like digging could find the old steps though
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19:24:31Nico_Pamiconn: I'll leave someone else to decide about that
19:25:27amiconnNico_P: Looks like the other 3 are obsolete. They aren't referenced anywhere
19:25:36 Part SCys
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19:25:49 Quit bughunter2 ("Leaving.")
19:25:57*Nico_P wonders why they were kept
19:26:01Nico_Pshould I delete them?
19:26:30amiconnI'll do some more checks, then let you know
19:26:45n1sthey are still in the svn history if anyone wants them later so, yes! :)
19:27:37amiconnYes, they can be deleted
19:28:57 Quit midgey ()
19:29:12Nico_Pie all the ones that start with "sapi5" can be removed?
19:29:30Nico_Pall right
19:30:26amiconnThey all belong to the first, very limited and slow implementation of sapi voice file generation in cygwin
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19:32:48*Nico_P wonders whether a vbs script should be marked executable
19:33:50Nico_PI'll finish this after dinner
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19:34:37amiconnThat's not necessary, as a vb script is windows only, and on windows there is no concept of executable scripts
19:34:50amiconnScripts need to be run by calling their respective interpreter
19:35:39amiconnActually there's one exception - the windows shell scripts (.cmd / .bat)
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19:37:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:54:19kugelSomehow sansapatcher -bl ... didn't do well
19:54:24 Join Jim [0] (n=4b5d962c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
19:54:36kugelbut e200tool in preboot mode, after I bricked the manufactoring mode
19:55:31Jimhey all
19:55:42kugelBagder: Are you sure the information is correct on your page?
19:56:12kugelBagder: doing the steps "using e200tool before 0.1.3" did even more damage
19:56:18Jimis rockbox working on firmware for the zune?
19:56:39advcomp2019Jim, nope
19:56:40kugelJim: rockbox is running on any target which is mentioned on the front page
19:57:06 Quit Jim (Client Quit)
19:57:06kugelLambdaCalculus37, advcomp2019: Don't help him directly, he should search himself before
19:57:11 Join Jim [0] (n=4b5d962c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
19:57:36kugelpre-boot mode is something weird
19:57:45LambdaCalculus37kugel: I'm not saying any more than I have to.
19:58:00kugelkrazykit: Are you there?
19:58:28 Quit Jim (Client Quit)
19:58:43 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
19:59:11saratogai used the svn bootloader recently and had no trouble
19:59:51kugelsaratoga: I used the sansapatcher from, and myself compiled pp5022.mi4
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20:00:14kugelafter sansapatcher was done, I rebooted...straight into manufactoring mode
20:00:38linuxstbsaratoga: Where did you find information about the hardware inside the Clip?
20:01:23linuxstbkugel: That wouldn't be the fault of the bootloader. And AFAIK (although I could be wrong), the Sansas never automatically enter manufacturing mode...
20:01:23kugelafter putting the i2c.bin into the recovery modes(which I reached with e200tool) - like Bagder's site says, I directly landed in the pre-boot mode.
20:02:05kugellinuxstb: probably. I just saw the blue wheel only, which reminded me of manufacturing mode
20:02:07saratogalinuxstb: theres pictures of it taken apart somewhere on google
20:02:33saratogakugel: I just built sansapatcher, then built a bootloader, and everything worked normally
20:03:03linuxstbsaratoga: Am I right in thinking that there's no external SDRAM, but a small amount embedded on the AMS Soc?
20:03:20kugelsaratoga: I used the sansapatcher version from, could that be the reason? I didn't think it makes a difference, since I specify the bootloader file
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20:03:35advcomp2019linuxstb, there is photos of the insides on anythingbutipod
20:03:36saratogalinuxstb: yes I believe so
20:03:53saratogatheres actually two versions of the AMS SOC, one with SDRAM support and one without
20:04:16kugelsaratoga: How did you build sansapatcher? within the rbutil dir?
20:04:24saratogakugel: with its makefile
20:05:54kugelsaratoga: are the massive warnings normal?
20:06:37kugelmany of these "sansapatcher.c:839: Warnung: format »%08llx« erwartet Typ »long long unsigned int«, aber Argument 3 hat Typ »loff_t«"
20:07:14kugelit expects long long unsigned int, but the 3rd argument has type loff_t
20:07:44linuxstbWhat OS are you compiling on?
20:07:46 Quit BitTorment_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:07:57kugelubuntu hardy, 64bit
20:08:22linuxstbI don't know if sansapatcher is 64-bit safe. Your experience would suggest that it maybe isn't...
20:08:30kugelhmm, could that be the reason? there was no 64bit version, so i took the 32 version instead
20:08:42kugelwhen I downloaded the one from
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20:10:42bluebrotherkugel: it might be helpful / easier if you set LANG=C before pasting compiler warnings ...
20:11:03saratogathe warnings are just printf statements ...
20:11:54kugelbluebrother: thanks, didn't know that
20:12:25kugelSo, here you go (if it now helps mroe): "sansapatcher.c:895: warning: format '%08llx' expects type 'long long unsigned int', but argument 3 has type 'loff_t'"
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20:13:13bluebrotherkugel: I think your second sentence explained it enough. But as saratoga said, this is only a printf output so nothing that should break the functionality.
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20:13:38bluebrotherJust wanted to give you a hint on how to avoid explaining pastes ;-)
20:13:58kugelThere are only those printf warnings
20:13:58 Quit AndyI ()
20:14:56krazykitkugel, i am now
20:16:01*linuxstb quite likes the challenge of squeezing Rockbox into the Clip's 320KB of RAM
20:16:35 Quit Bensawsome ("Leaving")
20:17:31kugelwell, it didn't work again
20:17:42kugelnow with myself compiled sansapatcher
20:18:09kugelkrazykit: what have you exactly done with sansapatcher -bl?
20:18:39 Join AndyI [0] (n=pasha_in@
20:18:53linuxstbkugel: What is the exact sansapatcher command you're running?
20:19:01bertrikwow, just 320k? in other words, impossible?
20:19:17kugelsudo ./sansapatcher -bl PP5022.mi4
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20:19:25linuxstbbertrik: No such thing ;)
20:20:03n1shmm, does anyone know if any of the ab repeat functions are very time critical as there is a bit of inlining there that should go away otherwise
20:21:16linuxstbkugel: The sansapatcher help says that the -bl option needs a ".bin" file - not a mi4
20:21:24krazykitkugel, i downloaded a precompiled sansapatcher, built the bootloader from tools/configure, and did sansapatcher -bl bootloader/bootloader.bin
20:21:39kugellinuxstb: i see
20:21:41krazykitjust like the flyspray task said.
20:21:41n1snope that inlining doens't make any binsize difference
20:22:42kugellinuxstb: it doesn't say that when I type the command though
20:23:13kugellinuxstb: Only on −−help
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20:26:06kugelI find it a bit confusing with the .mi4/.bin stuff
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20:30:47Nico_Plinuxstb: how do you expect to handle buffering with 320KB?
20:31:08Nico_PI mean, should there be any at all?
20:31:23linuxstbThat's a challenge for you...
20:31:38*linuxstb hasn't thought about it at all.
20:31:45Nico_Pwould it be viable to read directly from the audio files?
20:32:09linuxstbI guess it would have to.
20:32:13kugelNico_P: Would be interesting how the OF does that
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20:32:49Nico_Psome parts of the playback code will need to be changed
20:32:57Nico_Pie the codec callbacks
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20:33:53linuxstbI'm not seriously looking at a port to the Clip though, I just bought it as a cheap V2 target, so I can help get the port started
20:34:29Nico_Pyeah I know, but as you said, it's an interesting challenge ;)
20:35:05linuxstbYou could easily configure an existing flash-based target to only use 320KB of RAM...
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20:35:16kugelkrazykit: which file did you take? a 1.02.24 version OF file (as OF.bin) didn't work
20:35:25*Nico_P might try things like that on his c200
20:35:58Nico_Pit could actually make the playback code much simpler
20:36:22*gevaerts expects that some people won't mind an effort to fit rockbox in 320KB at all
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20:38:02saratogai think most of the codecs would be out with 320k
20:38:52bertrikand call it rockbox lite, pebblebox ?
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20:38:58gevaertsCan it run code directly from flash ?
20:40:47bertrikgevaerts: if you insert the charger on your sansa c200, does the battery voltage seem right during charging, or is it way too high?
20:41:01linuxstbgevaerts: No, it's not memory-mapped
20:41:03gevaertsbertrik: it's way too high
20:41:25gevaertslinuxstb: that probably means using overlays or something similar
20:41:58bertrikok thanks
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20:43:02amiconnlinuxstb: There must be some really clever trick
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20:43:28amiconnEven on the archos with least features (the player), rockbox needs more than 320KB of RAM
20:44:06amiconn345740 bytes for latest svn, not including the plugin buffer
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20:44:19linuxstbDoes that include bss?
20:44:45amiconnBut on archos we need no codecs, and SH1 code is a lot more compact than arm code
20:44:50krazykitkugel, i don't know. i called it OF.mi4
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20:45:00linuxstbI've noticed thumb code in the V2 firmwares...
20:45:03tlkghey guys
20:45:11kugelkrazykit: Yea, OF.mi4 works
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20:45:30amiconnYeah, maybe thumb is similarly compact. That still leaves the codec problem
20:45:31tlkganyone know how to get rockbox to display new podcasts?
20:46:15kugelweeh, I got it working \o/
20:46:24saratogagevaerts: the datasheet says you can memory map external flash
20:46:33kugelafter 2-3 nearly bricks
20:46:34saratogaso i would assume they've memory mapped a bit of the flash chip as ROM
20:46:40linuxstbsaratoga: NAND flash though?
20:47:07kugelbut I do think now, that the e200 is unbrickable w/o dealing physical damage
20:48:00amiconn320KB is an odd amount of ram. Are you sure about this?
20:49:05linuxstbIt's described as 2.5Mbit in one place, and as 5 * 64KB in another
20:49:20linuxstbBut I've only briefly skimmed the datasheet...
20:50:07n1slinuxstb: for comparison, the mpa codec needs ~110kB including bss on the S
20:50:41saratogalinuxstb: i'm not sure
20:50:52linuxstbThe OF just does mp3, wma, WAV and audible.
20:50:58saratogaits 5 banks of 64KB
20:51:04amiconnNo sdram??
20:51:18amiconnStrange design...
20:51:28saratogaits the future
20:51:37saratogaSDRAM is going away on daps
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20:52:07saratoganvidia's new chip has a meg or two of SRAM
20:52:22saratogaprobably they'll be up to a 4MB in no time
20:52:31saratogain which case you don't need or want SDRAM
20:52:33 Quit waldo (Remote closed the connection)
20:53:32linuxstbAre you sure that's MB of SRAM, not Mbit?
20:54:28amiconnsaratoga: That might apply to flash based daps, but certainly not to hdd based daps
20:54:43Nico_Plinuxstb: any reason why tools/configure has svn:eolstyle set to LF instead of native?
20:55:15amiconn......and also not to daps with pda-like features
20:55:31linuxstbSadly hdd based DAPs also seem to be going away...
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20:55:47amiconnI think rockbox would still be possible with just 320KB of ram, with the following limitaions/changes:
20:55:49 Join waldo [0] (
20:55:51n1samiconn: sadly it seems hdd based regular daps are going away too...
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20:56:30linuxstbNico_P: No idea... I would expect bash in cygwin to handle CR/LF if that's how cygwin was configured.
20:56:39Horschtwell, with rising flash space that shouldn't realy be that big a deal n1s
20:56:42amiconn* Codec buffer reduced to 128KB. No malloc buffer. This will probably rule out a number of codecs
20:56:56Horschtadmitedly it sucks for you guys with growing flac libraries
20:57:03saratogaby the time you get up to 4MB of SRAM, you'd have 64 to 128GB of flash on a $150 device, which makes HDs less interesting
20:57:04amiconn* Everything compiled as thumb
20:57:12n1sHorscht: finding a flash based player with > 20GB is kind of hard though...
20:57:25Horschtit's still hard, yes
20:57:49Horschtbut I assume in a not too distant future, 32GB+ Flash targets are more common
20:57:51linuxstbHD DAPs still have 10 times the storage of flash based though
20:57:53amiconn* Some of the big-code features need probably be cut from the core
20:57:55*DerPapst still waits for this over 800GB 2.5'' solid flash drive
20:58:15amiconn* No separate plugin buffer. If we want to allow plugins, they would always have to stop playback
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20:58:34amiconnlinuxstb: 10 times? Nah...
20:58:42Horschtflash based targets have a lot of advantages over hd based ones. (physical) size being one of them
20:58:44amiconnDo you know a 320GB 1.8" hdd?
20:58:51Horschtalso, being more failure proof
20:58:56linuxstbamiconn: What are the 32GB flash targets?
20:59:04Horschtbecause of no moving parts
20:59:11Horschtiphone has a 32GB version, no?
20:59:18amiconnlinuxstb: I will soon have one. Not even very expensive...
20:59:21Horschtipod touch
20:59:27amiconniPod Mini + 32GB CF card
20:59:30LloreanHorscht: Surely you don't mean they're smaller at the same capacity. They're smaller at smaller capacities.
20:59:30advcomp2019there is a 32GB sansa view
20:59:30n1sHorscht: the fragility of dap harddrives is greatly exaggerated
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20:59:32linuxstbOK, so currently 5 times...
20:59:32saratogalinuxstb: 2.25 megabytes
20:59:37saratoganot bits
21:00:06linuxstbsaratoga: Isn't that meant to be a video decoder though?
21:00:18Horschtthat is true, but also, HD based targets can't realy shrink anymore, Llorean
21:00:30amiconnUnfortunately all 2.5" HDDs bigger than 160GB are only produced as SATA versions... otherwise one could indeed have a 320GB HDD based dap nowadays...
21:00:35*bertrik wonders if anyone here ever managed to wear out the erase cycles of flash memory
21:00:36amiconn(even rockboxable!)
21:00:36Nico_Pflash is also less power hungry
21:00:42*DerPapst ios fine with the size of his hd based targets
21:00:45saratogalinuxstb: its an ARM SOC + DSP core
21:01:09LloreanHorscht: What are you basing this statement on? There are already HDs the size of dice:
21:01:10 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
21:01:37Horschtyou can't realy deny it, flash is a lot better for portable devices
21:01:45*linuxstb doesn't treat his DAPs well, but has never had a hard disk fail
21:01:48HorschtLlorean, depends on the size of the dice :p
21:01:49saratogaprobably meant for cell phones and DAPs, sinc ethe display only goes to 320x240
21:02:14linuxstbHorscht: I deny it - the price/capacity of flash can't compete with hard disks.
21:02:18Horschtseriously, though. that HD does not look like it's mass produced already
21:02:24LloreanHorscht: but you posited that HDs can't be shrunk any more. Defend your statement and show some evidence that they've reached a minimum size?
21:02:55scorche|shamiconn: there is a 250GB
21:03:03linuxstbscorche|sh: PATA?
21:03:09HorschtI defend my statement with a quote by a famous person, Llorean
21:03:15linuxstbscorche|sh: URL?
21:03:15Horscht"lalalallaa, I can't hear you!"
21:03:39LloreanHorscht: That's silly. This is an on-topic channel. You really shouldn't be making statements like that if they're just wild opinion.
21:03:48saratogai don't even think theres much market for 1.8" drives, let alone smaller
21:04:53LloreanUntil such time as flash reaches the same sort of data density as HDs, you're still going to see media based players using both, since many people will prefer to have all their media on one device rather than toting a bag full of cards.
21:05:01HorschtLlorean, i do believe that there is a minimum practical size of HDs
21:05:23LloreanHorscht: You believe. But you've got no evidence other than your own speculation?
21:05:40Horschtthere is a point on which you can't put more data on a certain soze of platter
21:05:52scorche|shthe AV300 would be nice, as i want a device i can throw a 2.5" hard drive in and will still play me flac
21:05:58Horschtshrinking the platter will eventualy shrink the space
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21:06:07LloreanHorscht: The exact same thing holds true for flash. that is a completely invalid point.
21:06:11Horschtsurely, we're not at that point yet
21:06:35LloreanHorscht: As I said, until flash surpasses magnetic storage in data density, disks will be an alternative. I think this makes it VERY clear that I warranted that if flash does surpass it, it can become a better alternative.
21:06:49Horschtbut I do feel that Harddisks, for DAPs, will "soon" be outdated
21:07:05amiconnThere's another point apart from available capacity - the price
21:07:27linuxstbHorscht: Define "soon" ?
21:07:32LloreanYes, right now a 160GB flash device would be ridiculously expensive.
21:07:33bertrikto me it seems that the increase in disk capacity is slowing down, while flash capacities are still going up very rapidly
21:07:37LloreanAnd probably will be for quite some time.
21:07:39Horscht"soon" is undefined, linuxstb
21:07:46Horschtthat's why I quoted it
21:07:51LloreanHorscht: If you can say that, I can say "soon" is already up, and it hasn't happened.
21:08:01*gevaerts recommends #rockbox-speculation
21:08:21n1sHorscht: so you say that sometime in the future we will no longer use the current technology...
21:08:39Horschtno, not entirely
21:08:55Lloreann1s: A dangerous position if I ever heard one. ;)
21:09:07Horschtbut for DAPs, HDs will be close to non-existant
21:09:20linuxstbHorscht: At some undefined point in the future?
21:09:33linuxstbThanks for the insight...
21:09:36Lloreanbertrik: I'd say disk capacity is going up faster than people think. The jump from 80gb dual platter to 80gb single platter was very sudden.
21:09:38LloreanRelatively speaking
21:10:09Horschtbut already flash based targets do have a wider appeal to the general public, with storage sizes > 30GB
21:10:50LloreanHorscht: If this were absolutely true, Apple wouldn't have introduced the iPod Classic as disk based, but rather as flash based with two or three times the storage of the 3rd Gen Nano.
21:10:53Horschtgeneral public being the majority of costumers
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21:11:00*gevaerts wonders which will come first : the heat death of the universe, the end of HDs in DAPs, or the end of this discussion
21:11:15Horschtthat's what they have the nano for, Llorean
21:11:25LloreanHorscht: You missed my point entirely
21:11:30Horschtbut the current nanos are still rather small in capacity
21:11:42scorche|shHorscht: stop making lots of claims without any hard numbers or facts
21:12:00amiconnscorche: wow
21:12:07amiconnJust ~70 EUR...
21:12:36Horschtscorche|sh, this whole discussion is based on claims, from both sides of the arguments
21:13:03scorche|shamiconn: yeah...and that wasnt any price shopping..that was just a well-known retailer that i searched for a drive from because i knew i had seen 250 PATA drives
21:13:23Horschtbut i will just shut up now.
21:13:29HorschtI am hungry
21:13:53scorche|shHorscht: i see proof given to disprove your arguments...i see nothing enforcing your claims....regardless, if you want this to continue, #rockbox-community awaits
21:14:08Horschtno thanks
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21:28:28webguest95need telechips datasheets?
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21:29:58linuxstbwebguest95: These?
21:33:00webguest95i see someone published it. but i got it a month before...
21:33:43linuxstbAre you interested in porting Rockbox to a telechips device?
21:34:34advcomp2019webguest95, your link does not work
21:35:50webguest95they deleted it...
21:36:13webguest95strange. i uploaded it a week ago
21:36:31webguest95it wass al tc datasheets
21:37:00linuxstbwebguest95: What is your interest in the telechips datasheets?
21:37:40webguest95no interest. i thought its not publicavailable so i can help
21:37:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:38:57webguest95im interested in PP and AMS
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21:43:07skull0Yo there again folks
21:43:44skull0I have read several times the pages you suggest me but unfortunately I dont know the type of proc im dealing with
21:43:58LambdaCalculus37Then consult the all-seeing Google.
21:44:03skull0I got a picture so someone can give me a hint
21:45:18skull0its kind strange because I didnt find the model I use in google
21:45:28BigBambiamiconn: I haven't read if there was already an answer, but I just ordered a 250 GB PATA 2.5" WD drive
21:45:58scorche|shBigBambi: yeah...i told him one exists
21:46:11BigBambitoo late then :)
21:47:09BigBambiamiconn: for ~ €85 in .fr
21:47:09 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:47:29amiconnBigBambi: Cheapest in .de is EUR 69.95
21:47:43amiconn(including VAT)
21:47:54BigBambiyep (+ delivery here)
21:47:56 Join roolku [0] (
21:48:28 Join espire [0] (
21:48:30amiconnIt looks like someone should really write fdisk.rock and format.rock...
21:49:06espirehi all, to use album art, I have to use a .BMP file, correct? what should this file be named?
21:49:07skull0the closest one I got is this
21:49:35BigBambisorry, @ espire
21:49:47espireah, thanks
21:49:47skull0what is the ess thing?
21:49:57skull0its RISC or SoC?
21:49:58roolkuNico_P: ?
21:50:53Bagderskull0: uh, a SoC can be RISC...
21:51:19LambdaCalculus37What kind of board is this? It looks like a hobbyist board.
21:51:39Bagderskull0: is that the only IC on the board?
21:51:51skull0dunno thats because give me a little problem to address components
21:52:24Bagderhere =>
21:52:27skull0badger: just read this on wiki, perhaps I dont read it well.
21:52:30Bagdertook me 20 seconds
21:54:24 Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere)
21:54:29Bagderhah, it _was_ a SoC that is a RISC ;-)
21:54:58saratogadoesn't mention the cpu though
21:54:58amiconnproprietary core...
21:55:13Bagderyeah, charming approach...
21:55:28 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
21:56:14espireanother question; what version of ID3 does rockbox support?
21:56:24LambdaCalculus37Both V1 and V2 tags.
21:56:32espireeven v2.4?
21:56:39skull0The one I have has usb and ever ask myself if connecting a hub to this mini will work to attach some peripherials some comments?
21:56:40 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06)")
21:56:49amiconnespire: yes
21:57:11espirecool, thanks
21:58:24 Join p3tur [0] (
21:58:42 Quit petur (Nick collision from services.)
21:58:49 Nick p3tur is now known as petur (
21:59:48skull0well time t deal with the ess thing, thanks everyone!!! wish me luck!!!
22:01:47peturhmmm do backlight and button backlight share the same MAX_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING?
22:03:39bertrikhm, getting lots of " line 10: $'\r': command not found" with svn17422
22:03:42roolkupetur: I wondered about that as well, but with the log transformation it just means the same number of steps
22:04:12roolkubertrik: in cygwin ?
22:04:13 Quit Topy44 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:04:22bertrikroolku: yes
22:04:54 Join Topy44 [0] (
22:04:55 Join perrikwp [0] (i=9821738c@gateway/web/ajax/
22:04:58roolkuI think it is the same problem I just fixed for configure
22:05:10roolkubertrik: let me check
22:05:33 Join webguest60 [0] (n=58a10615@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:06:37bertrikI'll try checking it out again
22:06:48webguest60hello, could you explain me what means a "*PANIC* event line full" with Rockbox ver. r17400-080507. ?
22:06:48roolkubetrik: yes, fell victim to Nico_P's tidy up
22:07:48bertrikwebguest60: something bad happened, probably a bug
22:08:42webguest60betrik: thanks, you know where i could fine the "event line" to debug ?
22:08:57bertrikwebguest60: developers are aware of it, but I don't know exactly who is working on it
22:09:17webguest60mkay, thanks
22:09:20amiconnwebguest60: It would be helpful to know how you triggered that bug
22:09:51webguest60cant tell you, its not on mine
22:09:54roolkubertrik: should work now
22:10:13bertrikyup, it works again, thanks
22:10:51webguest60It's a user
22:11:18bertrikif it's not already on the bug tracker, you can add it, preferably with more info on (what target, how to reproduce it, etc.)
22:12:26 Quit webguest60 ("CGI:IRC")
22:12:32 Join webguest18 [0] (n=58a10615@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:12:59webguest18i'll ask him to fill a bug report
22:17:35 Join gromit` [0] (
22:18:38 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 3.0b5/2008050509]")
22:21:39 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
22:22:11Bagderone commit more and we are all green
22:22:52preglowany reason for using DEFAULT_STACK_SIZE multiples when defining stack sizes and we're actually going for some specific size?
22:23:20preglowe200 sd stack is (DEFAULT_STACK_SIZE*2 + 0x1c0)/sizeof(long) big, for example
22:24:18BagderI guess plain laziness
22:24:38 Quit espire ()
22:24:40 Join pixelma [50] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
22:24:48preglowgood, i won't do that, then
22:25:03preglowno reason to make it DEFAULT_STACK_SIZE dependent when you don't care what DEFAULT_STACK_SIZE is
22:27:10 Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere)
22:27:10 Quit webguest18 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:32:06 Quit leox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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22:34:19 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
22:37:24*Bagder found and fixed the flaw that made the current build source archive not update
22:37:49Bagderand now gives us some credit too
22:39:12*bertrik didn't know sansalinux
22:39:14preglowpoor linux guys
22:39:37Bagderboth of them? ;-)
22:40:53Bagderbertrik: ipodlinux + rockbox drivers and installer = sansalinux
22:41:23Bagderbut it looks like a nice hack
22:41:36DerPapstit is indeed :-)
22:41:40*Bagder didn't try it, only checked sources
22:41:46*gevaerts would like beastlinux
22:41:54 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
22:44:52 Quit axionix (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:45:12*DerPapst did.. works pretty well already
22:45:43 Quit w1ll14m (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:46:28preglowgevaerts: well, at least that is powerful enough to run it well
22:46:28 Join DerDome [0] (
22:46:49gevaertsexactly. Once it runs well we can put build servers on them
22:47:04 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
22:47:23 Join moos [0] (n=c40cd995@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:47:25n1swith ethernet over usb that could actually work...
22:47:58preglowd2 has two cores...
22:48:01*DerPapst still wants gcc as a plugin.
22:49:05preglowsanity as a plugin
22:49:32amiconnI'm now down to a single line of code where the dropout on mini is caused, but I don't really understand why
22:50:08amiconn*possibly* the PP ATA controller checks some signal, and actually blocks the register read until that signal becomes ready
22:50:14 Join espire [0] (
22:50:25 Join leox [0] (
22:50:37mooshi there
22:50:52amiconnAs soon as I read ATA_STATUS (or ATA_ALT_STATUS) too soon after powering up the disk, the dropout happens
22:50:53 Join linuxstb__ [0] (
22:51:16amiconnIt's independent on whether the subsequent checks are delayed a lot, the first check matters
22:51:21moosis anyone can build me last S bootloader please? (not possibilty to build here)
22:51:23saratogafinally got my beast
22:51:28 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@unaffiliated/kugel)
22:51:34moossaratoga: congrates
22:51:38amiconnSo the only fix is to increase the delay after powering up the disk.
22:51:55amiconnShould we do this for all hdd based targets, or just for the minis?
22:52:09 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:52:14amiconnRight now we're waiting HZ/50. The mini needs at least HZ/5
22:52:37saratogai'm surprised at the S retail firmware, its not that terrible, though lack of UMS makes me thinking syncing it will suck
22:52:54Lloreanamiconn: I seem to recall reports of dropouts on several PortalPlayer targets recently, at various times. Including a recent one that was "fixed" by enabling dircache. Could there be any relation
22:53:28amiconnDepends on the type of dropout. The one I'm talking about is pretty easy to identify
22:53:31 Part espire
22:54:01DerPapstmoos: pure rb bootloader or dualboot?
22:54:08amiconnWhenever the disk has spun down and is powered off, any disk access (playback related or not) causes a single audio dropout of a fraction of a second
22:54:21Lloreanamiconn: Ah, this sounds more like frequent ones.
22:54:37amiconnThis seems to block the whole SoC
22:54:45moossaratoga: impossible to use it here, my beast did sleep 2 months here waiting rockbox ;) But sure it sucks a bit more than others
22:55:02amiconn0.2 seconds extra aren't that much compared to the other target's spinup times...
22:55:24moosDrPapst: Dualboot please (even if I canot make it workin yet)
22:55:31 Join w1ll14n [0] (
22:55:55*amiconn needs to check something
22:55:58 Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (
22:56:24moossaratoga: s/more/less
22:57:12*amiconn doesn't know a single OF that does not suck one way or another
22:57:32 Quit Buschel ()
22:58:35*w1ll14n wonders if there's even one OF that doesn't suck at all
22:59:18*Llorean finds the OF of his watch quite acceptable.
23:00:01DerPapstiirc some like the D2's of ;-)
23:00:10*gevaerts uses a watch with non-upgradable gearware
23:01:35peturDerPapst: your last flash^H^H^H^Hlamp patch misses stuff like buttonlight_force_on()
23:01:45*w1ll14n thinks about gevaerts watch... doesn't it have a replaceble battery ?
23:02:00*petur missed a backspace
23:02:15DerPapstoh? /me runs and checks
23:02:17amiconnHmm, spinup time from power-off state is significantly longer than from standby anyway
23:03:07amiconnOn mini: 450 ms from standby, 1500ms from power-off
23:04:00DerPapstpetur: shall i put it in lib/helper.[c|h] or in the plugin itsself?
23:04:39n1samiconn: i think about 1 second is the usual difference for these small hds
23:04:59peturthe lib please
23:05:06DerPapstok :-)
23:05:38w1ll14ni was wondering, does the gigabeat's also have a serial port on dock connector ?
23:05:50amiconnThe more important is that it seems those 0.2 extra seconds don't accumulate (probably because it shortens the wait_for_bsy() time by the same amount)
23:06:08amiconnSo I think we should wait that tiny bit longer on all hdd targets
23:07:15n1samiconn: does it accumulate on other targets?
23:07:25amiconnDidn't test yet
23:07:42amiconnMaybe I should...
23:09:12 Nick Absnthe is now known as Absnthe|away (
23:09:32amiconnI tried HZ/2 on mini now. Even that doesn't change the ~1500ms spinup time from power-off
23:09:58*amiconn will try HZ/2 on iriver and archos now
23:11:55 Join davina^ [0] (
23:12:22DerPapsti do a quick test compile
23:13:33DerPapst(quick = 20 minutes.. cygwin ;-))
23:14:10amiconnn1s: No accumulation on h180, even for HZ/2
23:14:11pixelmaDerPapst: if you start adding features for the lamp plugin, you should make it use the greylib on monochrome/greyscale targets so that it can "dim" the light... ;)
23:14:23*amiconn thinks he should go for HZ/2 to be on the safe side then
23:14:34n1samiconn: then I'd say go ahead
23:14:34amiconnWill test archos and G2 first
23:14:38peturDerPapst: errors ;)
23:14:45DerPapstpixelma: meh.. i don't add more "bloat" to it sine it isn't wanted :-P
23:14:56DerPapstpetur: meh...
23:14:59peturDerPapst: I'll fix 'm
23:15:07DerPapstok. thanks
23:15:12n1sDerPapst: it should have a Morse mode!
23:15:35*DerPapst puts fingers in ears and starts to sing... loudly
23:15:55*gevaerts wonders if DerPapst sings in morse
23:16:42pixelmaDerPapst: well if colour targets have an arbitrary colour setting; I would think that's fair...
23:17:00DerPapstpixelma: they don't :-P
23:19:48amiconnIndeed not, even with the colour-circle patch
23:20:18 Quit Zom (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:20:20DerPapst...which i will keep thoug :-P
23:20:32amiconnIt's not arbitrary, it only allows colours with value=100% and saturation=100%
23:20:35pixelmathe dimming with the help of greylib would only be needed on targets which can't set the backlight brightness in this idea
23:20:36amiconn...or white
23:20:38*DerPapst likes pretty colours
23:20:56toffe82w1ll14n: the serial port is available internally, not on the dock connector
23:20:59*gevaerts wants octarine support
23:21:00*amiconn thinks that colour circle patch should be committed
23:21:11DerPapstpixelma: the brightness is set to maximum and not changed in the plugin
23:21:18 Join Zom [0] (
23:22:05preglowthe main storage in the sansas get treated just like an sd card, yes?
23:22:49pixelmathe "lamp" on a Mini is then probably much brighter than on an H100... (just saying)
23:23:02gevaertspreglow: as far as I understand it, yes
23:23:35 Quit Seed (Nick collision from services.)
23:23:43 Join Seed [0] (
23:23:44kugelDerPapst: You're right :)
23:24:07kugelI'm suprised how much effort you put into overkilling a simple flashlight/lamp
23:24:20amiconnn1s: I can confirm that there is no adding up at all
23:24:25 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:24:30peturDerPapst: I'll leave 8934 open for those who want to work on the other features of the original patch?
23:24:32*DerPapst pffffffs
23:24:50kugelDerPapst: :)
23:24:51DerPapstmaybe you can rename it though
23:24:57 Quit skull0 ("Leaving")
23:25:17*petur could also close it and let people create a new one
23:25:26kugelCan we rename lamp again? To ilumination or something?
23:25:53kugelThat was suggested by Llorean like month ago
23:25:54*Llorean doesn't like to intentionally give things misspelled names like ilumination. :-P
23:26:13Lloreankugel: I also would've suggested lamp if pixelma hadn't been about 2 seconds faster typing it out.
23:26:24kugelillumination is also fine
23:26:30*petur kicks the buildservers awake
23:26:33n1samiconn: that's good :)
23:26:40*Llorean thinks lamp is a perfectly suitable name.
23:26:56*preglow too
23:26:58*DerPapst doesn't care too much
23:27:08kugeli think it fits as good as illumination, but illumination is kinda cooler
23:27:15*petur kicks a bit harder
23:27:24 Quit davina (Connection timed out)
23:27:27kugelanyway, names are the least important aspect of a software
23:27:54DerPapstindeed. the most important one is the logo
23:28:01*petur summons somebody with a long stick
23:28:05 Quit moos ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
23:29:50peturBagder: still here?
23:30:41peturbuildservers aren't picking up the commit
23:31:02peturprobably some green table protection
23:31:20Bagderyes, we will no longer accept commits
23:31:28peturah ok then
23:31:28Bagderit might ruin the table!
23:31:58*DerPapst makes screenshot
23:32:03scorche|shBagder: just prevent certain people like JdGordon from committing
23:32:05w1ll14ntoffe82: thanx! it's to bad..... that it isn't accessible trough dock connector
23:32:41toffe82w1ll14n: but you have i2c and i2s
23:33:06 Join Ghwomb [0] (
23:33:11w1ll14ni've read that indeed....
23:33:22 Part Ghwomb
23:33:30peturBagder: thnx
23:34:05Bagderthat bug is hard to catch
23:34:11toffe82w1ll14n: check the block diagram of the F and the S
23:34:13w1ll14ntoffe82: but there is a very nice remote for ipod (logic3 lcd remote), so i switched into fantasy mode....
23:34:59LloreanBagder: Re the steering committee: Will they also be expected to take responsibility for removing bad commits? (For example, I think there's still some debate over this one commit that seems to have borked up bass and treble settings related stuff)
23:35:32Bagderyes, I think that would be good job for that
23:35:41 Nick gregzx is now known as GregZzZzZzzzZZzX (
23:35:48Bagderand yes, I think we should revert that
23:35:57scorche|shi take it the main decision will take place during DCE?
23:36:11*amiconn settles for HZ/4 in order to not introduce too much delay on CF modded targets
23:36:38Bagderscorche: yes, i think we should discuss the merits with a "board", pros and cons etc while there
23:36:49Lloreanscorche|sh: It's a good place to hash out rules and guidelines for selecting them, and to determine their scope.
23:36:51 Nick w1ll14n is now known as w1ll14m (
23:36:54w1ll14mdamn typo
23:37:17scorche|shth infamous "board"
23:37:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:37:58amiconnpfew, one suspicious bug fixed
23:38:11*amiconn should probably try the CF mod now
23:38:40 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
23:38:47peturamiconn: anything I can try?
23:39:12amiconnShould copying an image of the microdrive to the CF card (with dd) and then deleting and recreating the second partition work?
23:39:28*amiconn wants to avoid using the ipod updater to restore his disk
23:39:36peturwhy not?
23:39:53DerPapstjust dd the entire microdrive.
23:40:03DerPapsteh... nvm
23:40:08DerPapstyes. that should work
23:40:30amiconnDerPapst: I only need the firmware partition. The second partition needs to be recreated in order to use all available space
23:40:44amiconnMBR + firmware partition, that is
23:40:53DerPapstyep. i noticed that after hitting return
23:41:04DerPapstthat's why the "nvm"
23:41:16*amiconn is curious whether the OF can handle that card :P
23:41:17 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:41:27amiconnI can't try playback though, just booting
23:42:01DerPapstiirc most CF cards worked with the OF.
23:42:09kugelpetur: didn't you forget to bump the api version?
23:42:13DerPapstbut maybe yours isn't "most" :-P
23:42:23amiconnIt's a large capacity card...
23:42:32 Quit n1s ()
23:43:24 Quit OlivierBorowski (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:44:35bluebrotherLlorean: what commit were you talking about? "Study" or something else?
23:44:43 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
23:49:47 Quit miepchen^schlaf_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:52:37amiconnBagder: Umm, what's that?
23:53:00amiconn"from r17425 to r17425"
23:53:04Bagderthat's a manually triggered build
23:55:06 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
23:55:12 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
23:58:12pixelmameh, why does LaTeX sometimes have weird problems with 'opt'ing? :\
23:58:28 Quit davina^ (Remote closed the connection)

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