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#rockbox log for 2008-05-11

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00:02:53 Join einhirn_ [0] (n=Miranda@p5B033197.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:03:59jhMikeSkkurbjun: flash away
00:04:35jhMikeSI had already done that for the S bootloader but neglected to just finish the job :p
00:05:37peturmcuelenaere: thanks for fixing my typo ;)
00:07:38XqtftqxHey Guys, Just want to say, the gigabeat s port is realy moving along, and everybody had bean doing a great job, im running it currently. Great Stuff!
00:07:52mcuelenaerepetur: np ;)
00:09:00XqtftqxAnybody Know the status of the battery charging thing for the S?
00:09:29jhMikeSXqtftqx: yes, in the planning stage
00:09:42XqtftqxWhats the status
00:09:44 Quit yeal` ()
00:10:02jhMikeSexactly that :)
00:10:13XqtftqxWell that realy helps
00:10:19 Quit mcuelenaere (""Zzzz..."")
00:10:24Xqtftqxare you guys stuck on something, i can try to help out?
00:11:12 Quit ajkessel ("BitchX: now with 42 percent more random quit messages!")
00:11:16 Join Xqtftqxt [0] (i=40e9e3d2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a400dc2bb5ea0d82)
00:11:20jhMikeSnot stuck, just thinking it through before twiddling fingers
00:11:25kkurbjunjhMikeS: looks good, just need to fix the bootloader link script
00:11:37kkurbjunflash is still working
00:11:51XqtftqxtWhat are you guys talking about?
00:11:58 Quit Xqtftqx ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
00:12:24 Nick Xqtftqxt is now known as Xqtftqx (i=40e9e3d2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a400dc2bb5ea0d82)
00:12:29XqtftqxFirefox Crashed
00:13:05kkurbjunjhMikeS: I just committed the fix
00:13:12Xqtftqxwhat fix?
00:13:25LloreanXqtftqx: Please, read the logs if you want to know what's being talked about.
00:13:34XqtftqxOk, ill read, sorry
00:13:50XqtftqxI cant
00:13:54Xqtftqxonly goes back so far
00:14:02linuxstbXqtftqx: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/
00:14:10XqtftqxOk thanks
00:14:19LloreanXqtftqx: Please, read the channel guidelines too. Try to use complete sentences rather than posting several very short lines.
00:14:37kkurbjunXqtftqx: I was talking about the F/X bootloader, not the S
00:15:11XqtftqxOh, Alright
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00:18:06jhMikeSkkurbjun: thanks
00:18:34*jhMikeS spotted-up the nice, green build table today :\
00:20:32 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
00:22:53 Quit desowin ("KVIrc 4.0.0 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/")
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00:25:10TKFeckcsc` indeed
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00:34:50 Nick Bright-SUSaiyan is now known as SUSaiyan (n=SUSaiyan@cc84863-b.zwoll1.ov.home.nl)
00:39:12saratogajhMikeS: does this mean hacks are no longer necessary for the Gigabeats when putting code in IRAM?
00:41:00 Nick csc` is now known as turks (n=csc@archlinux/user/csc)
00:41:30 Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@190-023-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl)
00:41:59jhMikeSsaratoga: not now
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00:52:07 Join tholdar [0] (n=WP-Gast@217-162-110-223.dclient.hispeed.ch)
00:52:11tholdarrockbox
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00:54:34 Quit tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε")
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01:00
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01:05:10tholdarpoor t
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01:11:55soapAdam Kessel?
01:12:04tholdarwhat?
01:13:08soapWhat is Adam Kessel's IRC nick?
01:13:16tholdarnick cave
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01:18:15kugelbuilding rockbox doesn't do well with make -j
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01:20:18kugelhm
01:20:35kugel"make -j" is ok, but "make -j 2" is not ok
01:20:43soapreally? I normally make -j3
01:20:59soapajkessel is the man I want to talk to.
01:21:38kugelsoap: Don't you need a space between -j and the number?
01:21:54kugeli did -j2 some time until I noticed it does nothing
01:22:01kugelsome time ago*
01:22:31*soap doesn't use a space
01:23:05kugelwell, I noticed a major speedup when i started to use the space
01:23:28soapgive me three and I'll test it.
01:23:47 Quit gevaerts ("bedtime")
01:24:10kugelsoap: No, you seem to be right, since -j2 doesn't do well too
01:25:13kugelthe problem with -j 2 on my machine is, that this makes the tools (like bmp2rb) be built after they are needed
01:25:39kugelthis applies to a fresh svn only ofc, when those tools aren't compiled yet
01:28:46soapmake -j 2 should be the same as make -j
01:28:59kugelI expected that too
01:29:01 Quit ender` (" Consultation, n. Medical term meaning "to share the wealth."")
01:29:01soapmake -j 20 should be the same as make -j IIUC
01:29:36kugelmake -j means make -j [infinite] according to the man page
01:29:39soapwhere it automatically attempt to pick the correct number of threads.
01:30:17kugelAllow N jobs at once; infinite jobs with no arg.
01:31:34 Part kakazza
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01:35:38saratogakugel: you may need to rerun configure or something like that
01:35:50saratogait sounds like your makefile is messed up
01:36:37obokugel: I just had the same issue with bmp2rb after a make veryclean
01:37:15soapFWIW, on my computer...svn up, make && make clean (to fill ccache), and the timings after that: j3=50sec, j2=62sec, j=50sec, no j=96sec
01:37:31obosolved it by changing the Makefile produced by tools/configure, to ensure that tools is built before features
01:39:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:39:43 Quit bertrik ("bye")
01:41:41soapajkessel doesn't appear to be a member of the forums, at least not from his IRC client's IP address range.
01:42:10soapI really would like to talk to him regarding his edit of the IpodAccessories web page.
01:43:46soapwould a wiki admin be able to see what IP address he edited the wiki page from? If so perhaps we could discover his forum account.
01:47:51XqtftqxYes
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01:53:57kugelsaratoga: after bmp2rb is built, everthing runs fine. I said, it only happens on a very fresh svn
01:54:15saratogakugel: i don't have that problem, so i think its something wrong at your end
01:54:29 Quit Xqtftqx ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
01:55:17kugelsaratoga: Have you tried a freshly checked out source or one where you have been compiling within at least once? As you see, obo know what I mean
01:55:42obokugel: I just commited a change to solve it - svn up
01:56:00kugelobo: Ok, that was fast :)
01:56:10*kugel also didn't know obo is a dev :/
01:56:29*obo has been far to distracted by real life recently
01:58:20soapif I were rich i'd make a SoapSummerOfCode
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02:00
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02:02:42kugelobo: Thanks works fine :)
02:02:59kugelsaratoga: The, my end wasn't wrong :P
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02:09:56kugelI think rockbox should ship some kind of exampe-music file, maybe even with a cover art
02:10:06kugelat least the source for having it in the sim
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02:54:05saratogajhMikeS: around?
02:54:32jhMikeSsaratoga: for a bit longer
02:55:40saratogacan you look at a pointer problem i have?
02:56:00jhMikeSsure
02:56:24saratogai changed a struct member from "frame_out[MAX_CHANNELS][BLOCK_MAX_SIZE * 2]" to "(*frame_out)[MAX_CHANNELS][BLOCK_MAX_SIZE*2]"
02:56:30saratogabasically just made a pointer to it
02:57:12saratogai then changed a memmove access to it from "&(s->frame_out[ch][s->frame_len])" to "&(*(s->frame_out)[ch][s->frame_len])"
02:57:25saratogabut the address that generates is wildly off
02:57:36 Join csc` [0] (n=csc@archlinux/user/csc)
02:58:18jhMikeS&((*s->frame_out)[ch][s->frame_len]) <= I think that's right
03:00
03:04:09jhMikeSthis compiles nicely: int myarray[10][10]; int (*myarray_p)[10][10]; myarray_p = &myarray; int* x = &(*myarray_p)[0][0];
03:05:50jhMikeSthis works too for the assignment, simply: int* x = myarray_p[0][0];
03:09:36saratogathanks, seems to work
03:14:22jhMikeSThinking about it I don't think the 2nd assignment is the same as the first but it means instead "int *x points to the [0][0] elemenent of a 10x10 array of pointers to a 10x10 array." :\
03:14:53 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
03:17:09*jhMikeS decides to go clarify this acedemic question for himself
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03:31:58saratogaif i put the output buffer from a codec into IRAM, DSP should be speed up correct?
03:37:01kugelI wonder if anyone can commit http://pastebin.ca/1014287
03:37:05kugeljust some changes to configure
03:37:24kugelIt fixes some typos and an issue I introduced in r16935 (which doesn't seem to cause any errors though).
03:37:32*jhMikeS gets it now (*myarray)[y][z] = myarray[0][y][z]
03:37:47kugelmy patch, which was committed by a dev respectively
03:39:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:39:19jhMikeSsaratoga: it's normally the case since the DSP often processes in place in the output buffer
03:39:36kugelWould anyone be so kind? If not, I'll just open a tracker entry
03:41:35saratogajhMikeS: so test_codec won't see the speed up from putting the output buffer in IRAM?
03:41:39*jhMikeS learned today that "eventhough" is a word
03:42:15kugelhehe
03:42:38jhMikeSsaratoga: it should speed up the codec itself targets where it helps and speed up both in normal playback
03:42:44kugeltypo again i guess :(
03:44:30kugelOk, I updated it
03:44:30saratogabut if i see a 5% speedup in test codec, presumably the real speed up is somewhat larger because now DSP operations don't have to do so many DRAM accesses?
03:45:19jhMikeSsaratoga: exactly
03:46:19*jhMikeS wonders if test_codec should include DSP processing in combination or isolation to give more realistic results
03:46:31*kugel goes to open a tracker entry
03:47:13*jhMikeS doesn't know the script stuff well enough to judge anything about the patch unfortunately
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03:51:37kugeljhMikeS: The first fix is a type in a comment, the second one in the output of configure --help, and the third one deletes 8 lines of code which put my patch in there in r16935
03:52:04kugeltypo*
03:52:45kugelhttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8980
03:52:49jhMikeS3rd is just an unused bit of test code?
03:53:13saratogajhMikeS: has anyone ever commented on what to do with the extra 32KB of IRAM on PP502X?
03:53:34jhMikeSsaratoga: there's another bank?
03:53:34kugeljhMikeS: Not even test code. I'm not entirly sure how it happend to be there
03:53:49saratogajhMikeS: yes 502X has 128KB
03:54:42kugeljhMikeS: The 8 lines seem to be a part of a function which is defined at the beginning of the file (I maybe copied it for refrences)
03:55:28jhMikeSsaragtoga: so the two banks aren't contiguous?
03:55:37saratogano they're contiguous
03:56:00kugeljhMikeS: But I definitlely know that these lines are wrong there and not needed
03:56:04saratogatheres just another 32k bytes at the end of the 96k on the 5020
03:56:37saratoga(and i don't believe we're using it, at least allocating it in a codec does not cause any problems once the changes are made in the lds file)
03:56:53jhMikeSsaratoga: don't use the same IRAM for codecs and plugins therefore IRAM-using plugins can run with music playing (seems the most user-visible benefit)
03:57:32saratogai thought plugins and codecs always shared IRAM?
03:58:56jhMikeSscarcity
04:00
04:03:58 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
04:04:13jhMikeSMCF5250 iirc has 128KB and is just divided 64K for core/64K for codecs and plugins
04:05:05saratogaplaying around with that extra IRAM, I can squeeze another 6% plus whatever putting the output buffer in IRAM gets for no real effort
04:05:10saratogafor WMA
04:06:22saratogai would rather like to have all that extra IRAM for codecs unless theres some pressing need in the core for it
04:06:46saratogai think if we're ever going to beat the OF on most of the PP targets, codecs are going to need to get faster, and having more IRAM would help with that
04:11:50 Quit waldo ("Konversation terminated!")
04:14:21jhMikeSsome driver design changes (more sleep time) + voltage scaling (I seem to recall hearing that as being a possibility on PP)
04:15:08kugelWow, study mode unter MajorChanges
04:23:28saratogajhMikeS: voltage scaling doesn't really help
04:23:44saratogathe OFs don't even bother with it
04:26:59saratogai think the biggest thing is just to get CPU usage down in codecs
04:27:16saratogacommercial decoders claim things like 20MHz MP3 decoding
04:27:26saratogawe barely manage 35 or 40MHz
04:30:52jhMikeSyeah, but they use the COP
04:31:22jhMikeSsplitting DSP and decoding between cores should allow that easily
04:31:50saratogai think Buschel said the DSP only uses about 2MHz if you have all processing turned off
04:34:47kkurbjunsaratoga, are completely set on the idea that extra iram is the only solution?
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04:45:15saratogakkurbjun: no, but its certainly a good way to go about it, at least on the targets that have it
04:48:23jhMikeSsaratoga: but the codec is sharing CPU with other tasks so it could only really run with 100% core available to it on COP
04:48:51kkurbjunI agree, I think a clean solution to implementing flexible use needs to be come up with though, otherwise it's not a productive use of time to simply /muddy/ the code when there are other things that should and could be fully looked into as jhMikeS is suggesting. Granted these are things that come from a hardware perspective rather than code performance, but getting an answer here on what to do isn't really a consensus. I think
04:49:00kkurbjunthat or we need a steering board.
04:50:15kkurbjunthe other problem is that iram changes don't really benefit the code as a whole except on particular SOC's
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04:54:52soapThe code as a whole beats every other SOC OF's runtime, does it not?
04:55:32kkurbjunit doesn't beat the gigabeat OF from what I've heard
04:55:56kkurbjunI have not done a measurement on it though
04:56:13kkurbjunagain, I'm not aguing against using the IRAM, but I think it needs to be done cleanly
04:56:15soapI haven't seen any measurements on that target, solid point.
04:56:34soapBut RB doesn't scale on the F/X.
04:57:07kkurbjunsoap, generally frequeny scaling on silicon is a linear change in terms of power
04:57:14kkurbjunvoltage is exponential
04:57:27kkurbjunand those are the main factors you can change
04:57:56kkurbjunon the F we disconnect the core when code doesn't need to be run thanks to some clever code
04:58:47kkurbjunso slowing down the core only makes the code take longer to run just at a lower frequency, so it ends up pretty even
04:59:30soapI was under the impression scaling had been attempted, but didn't change a thing?
04:59:36soap(runtime wise)
04:59:41kkurbjunsoap, yep, it was the same
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04:59:58InigoMontoyahello all
05:00
05:00:25kkurbjunit's less power while at a lower frequency, but the core has to be connected longer
05:00:37InigoMontoyai was just testing the suggested fix in FS #8641, e200 doom 90 degree crash, and it seems to have worked
05:02:03InigoMontoyahow do i go about making a patch?
05:03:48kkurbjunI guess I should clarify, voltage is not exponential, but quadratic
05:07:31InigoMontoyais the command something like diff original.c modified.c > patch.diff ?
05:08:49kkurbjun"svn diff > file.diff" will give you the differences in a file
05:09:43InigoMontoyai have modified a file, and i want to make a patch that would modify an original file to make it like my modified file
05:10:35ReKleSSInigoMontoya: you would normally use diff -u
05:10:59ReKleSSit includes some context so that the patch can still apply against a slightly different file
05:12:00InigoMontoyaReKleSS: thanks, i'll tinker around a bit and try to make a patch and post it after a little bit more testing
05:39:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:56:36InigoMontoyaReKlESS: i have made the patch after testing it for awhile, what is the etiquette on posting patches? should I just post it?
05:56:54 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.82 [Firefox 3.0b5/2008050509]")
05:57:06ReKleSSthat part I'm not sure about... I believe that's usually fine, though
06:00
06:12:44InigoMontoyaok the patch is posted in FS #8641 hopefully i did it right
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07:39:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:48:22JdGordonis the microdrive in the mr100 replaceable with a CF card?
07:51:52homieloweI think its the same seagate type as the ipod mini
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07:54:31*Buschel reads the logs and support saratoga in his statement about CPU-usage of OFs
07:54:59Buschelseems like mp3-decoding on arm7 (non dual core) is possible @20-24MHz.
07:55:32Buschelthis is equal to mpc in rockbox -- with mpc-playback we surpass the OF battery runtime...
07:55:45Buschelso: let's tweak the decoders! ;o)
08:00
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09:02:15JdGordonanyone know if low_light is ever on irc?
09:09:11scorchelow_light (i=c730180a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8a22b4117b7c44c9) signed off 1 day and 12 hours ago
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09:10:18*JdGordon does some ESP thing to get him to come back online some time tonight :p
09:11:57scorcheESP is mainly RX...not TX
09:12:25JdGordondamn you!
09:12:41JdGordonand how can it only be RX? something has to TX...
09:19:30zewhat you want is telepathic suggestion
09:20:16KohlrabiIs the latest version of rockbox able to decode Musepack SV8?
09:20:19zeESP can almost be thought of as a special kind of filter... it filters out immediate sensory input along with the effect of obstructions in order to recieve sensory perception from outside your immediate scope
09:21:12KohlrabiFlkyspray says "no", but maybe it has changed :I
09:22:58scorcheze: wrong channel ;)
09:23:24zescorche: i know, i was done :p
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09:32:30*n1s sees that the string order in english.lang was broken without bumping the version or even a warning...
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09:57:34webguest12hi, if I have rockbox on my Archos JBR will a apple mac see it ?
09:58:02n1swebguest12: yes
09:58:25webguest12I dont need special drivers for the mac ?
09:58:50scorchewebguest12: which JBR?
09:59:04webguest12v1
09:59:10scorcheand what size?
09:59:28webguest12I modded mine to 12o gigs
09:59:32webguest12120
09:59:44scorchei meant what size originally
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10:00:01webguest12hmm, 10 or 15 gig originally
10:00:25scorchewell...let me ask this...is it USB 1.1 or 2.0?
10:00:32webguest121.1
10:01:46scorchei dont know the situation with those drivers and a mac...does it work fine currently?
10:02:06JdGordon|unishouldnt it just show up as a regular mass storage device?
10:02:24scorcheJdGordon|uni: 1.1 required drivers
10:03:02webguest12so I'll need drivers for the mac ro see it ?
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10:03:16scorchewebguest12: does the mac currently see the device?
10:04:05webguest12haven't tried it yet, mac is a friends pc,
10:04:45scorchewell, rockbox wont make a difference in regards to if the mac will see it
10:05:01webguest12ah, that answers it then, thanks
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10:24:10webguest12scorhe; do you perhaps have the original installation CD's for the Archos JBR V1 ?
10:24:32webguest12scorche^
10:25:04scorcheprobably, but i would probably have to spend hours of digging through old boxes
10:25:52webguest12ok, I bought my Archos off ebay, so no instalation disk, apparenlt it had a mac installation disk
10:26:06*scorche nods
10:26:30webguest12wanna sell me the disk :-)
10:26:39scorchei dont have it handy
10:27:31webguest12i can wait a few days if it makes any difference, but if you dont to want to thats ok
10:27:43scorchei dont :)
10:27:50webguest12np :-)
10:28:00Mouser_XTry searching for the drivers.
10:28:11Mouser_XThere's drivers.org, or something.
10:28:17webguest12I have, nothing for the mac only pc
10:28:30Mouser_XI meant searching online. Like Google.
10:28:36Mouser_XSorry, misread.
10:28:39Buschelkohlrabi: musepack sv8 ist still not supported yet. i've made a first attempt to compile it into rockbox yesterday -- and failed :/ will need some more time until i get it to work
10:28:42webguest12:-)
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10:29:35Mouser_XOdd as this may sound, have you tried downloading the various drivers you've found? Maybe they contain the MAC drivers in there after all.
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10:29:52Mouser_XAlso, try searching for *.hfs files, and not *.exe or *.zip.
10:30:13Mouser_X(Or whatever the MAC's "native" archive format is.)
10:31:00webguest12I'll try all that, but the packagges all state various flavours of windows, I just need to find someone with the installation disks that is willing to copy the drivers off them, thanks for your time
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10:37:25Mouser_Xwebguest12: Is this it? - http://members.driverguide.com/driver/detail.php?driverid=12165
10:38:08scorcheMouser_X: keep in mind this is all before OSX
10:39:05Mouser_XI searched for MAC, not OSX.
10:39:33*Mouser_X doesn't use MACs, and thus is almost entirely unfamiliar with their stuff, including their OS.
10:39:49scorchei doubt you will find OSX drivers for it....and we dont even know if they are needed yet (i dont know what sort of drivers OSX includes)
10:39:51webguest12thank you for your effort, but it is indeed for the OSX
10:40:11Mouser_XAh, sorry.
10:40:16*Mouser_X goes to bed.
10:40:58scorchewebguest12: see if it works...if not, come back...you can always wait around till someone else comes around that might know too
10:41:19webguest12thank you, I'll do so
10:51:38linuxstbwebguest12: This may be what you're looking for. IIRC, it's the ISD200 USB bridge chip you need a driver for - http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/11561
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11:21:40KohlrabiBuschel: good to know, thanks :)
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11:37:34JdGordonNico_P: done anything with the icon list view yet?
11:37:48Nico_PJdGordon: not yet, no
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11:38:01Nico_PI've done some basic thinking but no coding
11:38:13JdGordonok
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11:41:37Nico_PI hope to start coding soonish
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11:56:56JdGordonNico_P: got a min to checkout a wps/playback bug?
11:57:55JdGordontrying to see if 6078 is still a bug.. The A-B repeating works correctly (i tihnk), but the statusbar shows wrongly
11:58:47JdGordons/statyusbar/progressbar
11:59:01JdGordonit colours the first bit of the bar instead of starting from the a-b spot
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11:59:38JdGordonalso, the possibly bigger issue is that it finishes the track after you set the B spot then jumps back to A as expected, but should it jump back as soon as the B is set?
11:59:47*JdGordon will try looking at the progressbar issue
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12:10:15JdGordona-b mode doesnt seem to work in the sim at all?
12:11:10Nico_PJdGordon: that's a limitation of A-B repeat
12:11:20JdGordonwhich part?
12:11:43Nico_Prepeating the wrong section (looking at FS #6078)
12:11:49Nico_Pit's because of PCM latency