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#rockbox log for 2008-06-03

00:00:00*Nico_P is reassured
00:00:22*bluebrother points to IrcNicks :)
00:01:01kugelI know that list, but I allways confuse the two Dominiks anyway
00:01:08kugel:)
00:01:32bluebrotherhehe. And both are working on rbutil ... can be somewhat confusing, indeed.
00:01:38kugelyep
00:01:54*bluebrother refuses to change any of his names
00:02:12 Join [CBR]Unspoken|w [0] (n=cbr@212.98.160.130)
00:03:28 Quit simonrvn (Nick collision from services.)
00:03:28 Nick simonrvn_ is now known as simonrvn (i=simon@unaffiliated/simonrvn)
00:04:20kugelNico_P: BTW, have already looked at my final picture flow improvements patch?
00:04:53Nico_Pkugel: no, sorry. I really haven't had much rockbox time lately
00:05:03kugelNo problem
00:08:27 Join leox [0] (n=leox@165-162-114-200.fibertel.com.ar)
00:08:48 Quit bughunter2 ("bye")
00:11:05 Join Phoul [0] (i=phoul@sourcemage/guru/Phoul)
00:11:08PhoulHey all
00:11:21PhoulDoes anyone know of any software that -does- work on the new ipod nanos
00:11:47stripwaxPhoul - by "software" do you mean "replacement third-party firmware"? If so, the answer is 'none'.
00:11:51PaulJami think the apple firmware does work there
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00:13:13 Part Phoul
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00:57:54 Quit ender` (" An eye for an eye only leads to more blindness. -- Margaret Atwood")
00:58:08 Quit tvelocity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:00
01:04:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:05:24 Quit herrwaldo ("Konversation terminated!")
01:06:56 Join fdinel [0] (n=Miranda@modemcable097.232-203-24.mc.videotron.ca)
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01:10:20jhMikeSNico_P: here now
01:10:23 Quit n1s ()
01:10:38 Part hobbs ("Leaving")
01:11:30Nico_PjhMikeS: I'm on my way to bed ;)
01:11:41 Join csc` [0] (n=csc@archlinux/user/csc)
01:11:48Nico_PI just wanted to discuss the possibility of readding the hack
01:12:25jhMikeSi've considered it. anything on your end?
01:13:30Nico_Pafter some more use, I believe amiconn's changes didn't completely fix the issue
01:14:26jhMikeSadding the hack doesn't fix the issue either, just covers it up :)
01:16:38jhMikeSis your remaining experience much like the description in the forums.
01:16:41jhMikeS?
01:18:02Nico_Ppretty much... I don't have resume on startup, but if I resume shortly after startup, I get some intense disk activity. I never get skips though
01:18:29Nico_Presponsiveness varies but remains far better than it used to be before amiconn's changes without the heck
01:18:34Nico_P*hack
01:18:39 Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.)
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01:19:38 Part pixelma
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01:23:21 Join donutman25 [0] (n=kvirc@65.75.87.48)
01:23:30 Quit homielowe ()
01:25:00jhMikeSit's seems well to be narrowed down to which HD the player has since you've run the 30gig build with no change. amiconn's fix handled the problem after a power cycle but it at this point looking like there an issue until the power is cycled at least once.
01:31:01Nico_PjhMikeS: does a power cycle necessarily involve a spinup/spindown?
01:32:05jhMikeSit's powered off 2 seconds after a spindown
01:33:37*Nico_P really has to go to bed
01:34:00jhMikeSnighty night
01:34:06Nico_Pbye ;)
01:34:08 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:37:27 Quit blo0dy ("changing servers")
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02:00
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02:54:41wpyhBuschel: I slept
02:55:06wpyhBuschel: but yes, I finished it: 12:15 with the OF
02:58:40 Quit Shaid ("*toink*")
03:00
03:02:20wpyhSo, that's 12:15 for the OF compared to 9:50 for RB
03:02:30 Join japc__ [0] (n=japc@bl7-241-21.dsl.telepac.pt)
03:02:35wpyhDone with an assorment of mp3 files
03:02:42wpyh(the exact same set of files)
03:04:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:04:39 Join scorche [0] (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
03:12:48 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
03:13:12 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
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04:00
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04:19:30 Nick drf|away is now known as drfsupercenter (i=your_mom@d14-69-192-60.try.wideopenwest.com)
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04:40:59 Join vbman11_ [0] (n=kevin@c-75-71-32-88.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
04:42:43vbman11_Hi Guys, I came here to ask permission to edit the wiki
04:43:02drfsupercentera wiki usually means anyone can edit it
04:43:03*drfsupercenter runs
04:43:53vbman11_When I went to register, I told me to ask permission
04:44:10vbman11_I ment "It told me..."
04:44:50wpyhhelp /action
04:44:58wpyhsorry, missed the /
04:45:12*wpyh scratches head
04:45:53 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Connection timed out)
04:46:01vbman11_This is what it says: " Important: Join the #rockbox IRC channel, introduce yourself and ask for Wiki write permissions. You will not be able to edit any Wiki pages until you do this."
04:46:09krazykitvbman11_, what's your wiki name?
04:46:15vbman11_vbman11
04:46:23vbman11_no underscore
04:46:38 Join john [0] (n=john@c-68-43-140-63.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
04:46:39krazykitplease reread the rules for registering on the wiki, as that's an invalid name
04:46:45 Join lanuser [0] (n=pkirchne@99-139-167-166.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
04:47:01vbman11_i'll try to register again
04:47:14johnhow do you get the sdk for making .rocks
04:47:27wpyhI saw an email today: http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-archive-2008-06/0012.shtml
04:47:33lanuserHello - is there a reason I wouldn't be able to see .mpeg files in a foler using the file browser?
04:47:42 Quit |donutman25| ("KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/")
04:47:44wpyhThere's a line which *could* make it to the Golden Quotes:
04:47:58Lloreanjohn: See the SimpleGuideToCompiling wiki page.
04:48:00vbman11_krazykit: Ohh! Sorry.
04:48:08wpyhHe has definitely read the manual all the way through more than once, he is very familiar with Lynox and compilers for programs.
04:48:09Lloreanlanuser: See the manual regarding the "File View" setting
04:48:27wpyhLlorean: does it qualify? Because of the "Lynox"
04:48:32lanuserLlorean thanks
04:48:46Lloreanwpyh: And he/she is blind or visually impaired, so their spelling is based on phonetics. They've probably never seen the word "Linux" because they cannot see, and have only heard it spoken.
04:49:01LloreanIt's a little cold to make fun of them because of this.
04:49:03wpyhLlorean: Yup.
04:49:16wpyhI didn't mean to make fun of him/her...
04:49:16johnis there an sdk for rockbox?
04:49:27 Quit john (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:49:30wpyhSorry
04:49:41wpyhjohn: SDK? Yes, there is
04:49:50wpyhjust get the svn
04:49:59 Join Skream13 [0] (n=john@c-68-43-140-63.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
04:50:06wpyhand then run tools/rockboxdev.sh to get it
04:50:21Skream13could u repeat that, i was disconected
04:50:23Lloreanwpyh: He's already left the channel...
04:50:28Skream13sorry
04:50:32vbman11_krazykit: ok it's KevinDurbin
04:50:39wpyhLlorean: didn't notice...
04:50:45wpyhOh, he's Skream13 now
04:50:49Skream13yeah
04:51:02LloreanSkream13: As I said, see the SimpleGuideToCompiling wiki page.
04:51:08Skream13ok
04:51:11wpyhSkream13: get the svn and run tools/rockboxdev.sh to get it
04:51:24wpyhLlorean was faster...
04:52:16Skream13thankyou wpyh
04:52:48krazykitvbman11_, all set to edit :)
04:53:43vbman11_krazykit: Thanks!
04:55:10 Quit lanuser ("Rockbox Rocks!")
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05:00
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05:04:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:39:13wpyhAnyone knows where the font drawing part is in the source code?
05:39:25wpyhI couldn't find it
05:40:44 Quit ch4os (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
05:42:27JdGordonwpyh: iirc, fonts are loaded as mono bitmaps and then actually drawn in the lcd driver...
05:42:30 Join windowsrefund [0] (n=akosmin@cpe-68-174-71-154.nyc.res.rr.com)
05:42:37windowsrefundhi
05:42:59wpyhSo the fonts are drawn differently for each LCD?
05:43:05windowsrefundI think I bricked my nano
05:43:48windowsrefundusing the emergency mode to bypass rockbox and I can now mount the vfat partition but it's read only
05:44:02windowsrefundso I can't run iplodloader against it
05:44:08windowsrefundipodloader that is
05:44:21wpyhJdGordon: anyway, thanks
05:45:00JdGordonnot for each lcd... each lcd type
05:45:11JdGordon16bit, 2bit, 1bit...
05:45:20wpyhOh... OK
05:45:21wpyhthanks
05:45:26JdGordonyou wanted to do AA yeah?
05:45:28wpyhthat would simplify a *lot* of things
05:45:32wpyhyep, I wanted to do AA
05:45:41wpyhnot in the near future, since exams are coming
05:45:50wpyhbut let me tell you one thing: Rockbox is addictive!
05:45:51wpyh:D
05:45:58JdGordonhaha, yeah, join the club
05:46:04wpyhthanks :)
05:46:09JdGordonwe hold weekly meetings :p
05:46:15wpyhweekly meetings?
05:46:33wpyhwindowsrefund: by the way, try this: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodManualRestore
05:46:36JdGordon"hi, my name is jonathan and im a rockbox-aholic"
05:46:42 Quit SirFunk_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:47:19wpyhJdGordon: I didn't quite get it...
05:47:29JdGordondont worry...
05:47:39wpyhEnglish is my second language :p
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05:48:21windowsrefundthanks wpyh
05:48:23JdGordonthink alchol anonymous for rockbox...
05:48:56Nathan_GreeneCan some one direct me the the theme documentation on the wiki?
05:49:08Nathan_Greene*to the
05:49:33JdGordonhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/
05:49:36Nathan_GreeneI cannot seem to find the link
05:50:05Nathan_GreeneAh I am silly
05:50:07wpyhoh :p I get it now
05:50:14Nathan_GreeneSorry
05:50:15JdGordon:)
05:50:18Nathan_GreeneI found it
05:50:38wpyhso, like "Hi, my name's William and I'm a Rockbox-aholic"? :D
05:50:50JdGordonthere you go :D
05:51:31wpyh:)
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06:00
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06:07:26Nathan_GreeneWhat all type of images can be used for themes?
06:08:06 Quit billblack (Client Quit)
06:08:20JdGordonbmp only
06:12:11Nathan_GreeneJdGordon: Will any other support be added?
06:12:22JdGordonunlikely
06:13:16Nathan_Greenebmp is bulky and uncompressed png would be a good replacement
06:13:27JdGordonbmp is easily loaded nativly
06:14:07Nathan_GreeneYeah I guess it would be as bmp isn't compressed
06:14:22Nathan_GreeneAnd would require less memory and such to load
06:14:27Nathan_Greeneand render
06:15:14Nathan_Greene*remembers skinning my apps with png files*
06:15:26LloreanNathan_Greene: The data's going to have to be stored as uncompressed data in RAM anyway for fast drawing, and the small bitmaps used aren't generally a huge hit on disk space which is the only place .png would benefit them (but slow the load)
06:15:47Nathan_GreeneYeah
06:16:06Nathan_GreeneI use to do a lot of coding in VB and sharp
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06:33:56 Join Worghal [0] (n=Worghal@89-160-132-107.du.xdsl.is)
06:34:17Worghalgood evening
06:39:14wpyhIt's noon here :)
06:40:28Worghalhehe :p
06:40:43Worghalwell, its 4:40 here in iceland ;)
06:40:49Worghalam
06:43:29Worghalwell, i was wondering how the rockbox is installed through a mac, since ive only seen the bootloader in a video on windows :S
06:45:13LloreanWorghal: Have you read the manual?
06:48:52Worghalhehe, i must be losing my sight, cause i scrolled through it a couple of times :) but i found it now
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07:00
07:04:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:38:19wpyhThere might be a bug in the shut down code
07:38:33wpyhSometimes pressing 'play' for a few seconds shuts the player down
07:38:41wpyhSometimes pressing it doesn't do anything
07:38:58LloreanOn what player?
07:39:05wpyhSometimes the player shuts down right after I unpress the 'play' button
07:39:09wpyhit's iPod Nano
07:39:18Llorean"Right"?
07:39:23wpyhyep
07:39:26LloreanI've never had any strangeness with it.
07:39:30wpyhright away, after I lifted my finger
07:39:59LloreanAre you sure your player's in good condition, and are you sure you're not wiggling your finger any? You should just hold play, and it'll eventually shut down
07:40:12wpyhI'm pretty sure
07:40:16wpyhand it's random
07:40:55wpyhhey, I think I can *quite* reliably reproduce the third behaviour
07:41:23 Join nuonguy [0] (n=john@c-24-6-175-26.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
07:41:27wpyhhere's how: turn your finger around the scrollwheel a few rounds (5-10) then stop at the play button and immediately press it
07:41:56wpyhit won't shut down, just stays there. you can keep your finger for as long as you want (I tried 30 secs) and when you finally lift your finger, it shuts down
07:42:00LloreanSo you aren't releasing the scrollwheel?
07:42:10wpyhyes, I'm not releasing the scrollwheel
07:42:19wpyhand by the way that method works about 50% of the time
07:42:25Nathan_GreeneWith rock box is there away I can eject my ipod and charge without the damn usb mode still on?
07:42:39Nathan_Greeneexcuse my language
07:42:47ShaidHold down menu when you plug in the usb cable.
07:42:55Shaidit's all in the manual
07:43:28Nathan_Greeneah ok thanks
07:44:28Nathan_Greeneha ha ha windows wants in "install" the rock box media player......
07:45:07 Join Mathiasdm [0] (n=Mathias@vpnd155.ugent.be)
07:46:23wpyhNow I think I really wiggled my finger a bit
07:46:30wpyhLlorean, were you able to reproduce it?
07:46:48wpyhHere's a simpler version: press down the 'play' button, wiggle your finger a bit, wait
07:47:02wpyhafter you've waited enough, release the button. then it will shut down
07:47:11Lloreanwpyh: I'm not trying to reproduce it. My nano isn't handy.
07:47:19wpyhoh, ok
07:47:19LloreanBut this is more or less known, you're basically triggering two buttons at once.
07:47:32wpyhwhich two buttons?
07:47:37Llorean"scroll" and "play"
07:47:41wpyh@_@
07:47:45LloreanWhat?
07:47:49wpyhbut my finger's still mostly there
07:47:55LloreanAs I said in the very beginning, "are you sure you're not wiggling your finger"
07:47:58Nathan_Greeneone thin I ran into is using paint and having my nano shutdown
07:48:01wpyhoh, that's a confused face
07:48:13LloreanOnce you start scrolling, it doesn't really "stop" until you remove your finger from the wheel.
07:48:19ShaidThis is a logged channel. Please use normal english, as it is difficult for blind people and their screen readers otherwise.
07:48:33wpyhLlorean: yeah, sorry. I *was* sure I wasn't wiggling my finger
07:48:36wpyhShaid: ok
07:48:47Lloreanwpyh: Except your instructions for reproducing it specifically require wiggling/moving the finger...
07:48:57wpyhLlorean, so there are two events?
07:49:23wpyhI didn't realize my (first) instruction has anything to do with the finger wiggling
07:49:43Llorean"moving your finger around the wheel, triggering scrolls" is the same as "moving your finger a small distance, triggering scrolls"
07:49:53wpyhOh, OK
07:50:13wpyhHow about we change the event detection algorithm?
07:50:49wpyhIf the play button is pressed and the scroll wheel is touched, then if the finger position is near the 'play' button, just ignore it
07:51:01wpyhI realize it's more complex, but it's more humane
07:51:17LloreanI'm not even sure it's not just a hardware problem.
07:51:17wpyhIt's very natural for us to wiggle our finger a bit (we aren't robots)
07:51:34LloreanFeel free to investigate and post a patch though.
07:51:39LloreanI personally never have had any problem with it.
07:52:02wpyhWell, OK
07:52:09wpyhanother item in my TODO list :)
07:52:45wpyhBy the way, same goes to the FF and FR buttons
07:54:13wpyhAnd I've just tried it with the OF
07:54:31wpyhthe OF detects the key press correctly (and ignores the scroll wheel)
07:54:47wpyhLlorean: do we need a key combo for "press and scroll" anyway?
07:55:13LloreanI have no idea what you mean by "press and scroll"
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07:55:39wpyhwell, I mean pressing a key (such as the play key) and scrolling the wheel
07:55:53wpyhit's more like "scroll while pressed)
07:56:00LloreanThere's not a key combo, they just interfere with each other.
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07:56:44wpyhCould you elaborate on the "interfere" part?
07:57:24wpyhWhat I understand is when I press the 'play' key, there's a 'keydown' event for that, then when I scroll there's another scroll event
07:57:32LloreanAs I already said, I don't know why the behaviour happens specifically...
07:57:39wpyhoh..
07:57:46wpyhguess I have to look closer on the code then
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07:58:22LinusNwpyh: so your suggestion is to ignore the scroll wheel until the button is released?
07:58:29LinusNsounds fair to me
07:58:41wpyhYes
07:59:07LloreanAs long as it's just the four directional buttons on the wheel, it makes sense.
07:59:08wpyhIt's because, if we press a key, we don't usually (99% of the time) want to scroll
07:59:12wpyhyes
07:59:21wpyhWe might want a combo for the center key and a scroll
08:00
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08:08:51Buschelmoin moin
08:09:07Buschel(as we northern german say)
08:09:13amiconnmo0ning
08:09:41Buschelwpyh: you there?
08:09:47wpyhBuschel: yes
08:09:50wpyhI'm here
08:10:14Buschelwpyh: from the logs i get the impression you can build rockbox?
08:10:46wpyhUh, yes... but not manually
08:10:54wpyhI just ran rockboxdev.sh to get the tools
08:10:56wpyhthen configure
08:10:57wpyhthen make
08:11:05wpyhIt's all automated :)
08:11:34wpyhBuschel: why did you ask?
08:11:38Buschelbut you can apply tiny changes to the source, recompile and use in on your nano?
08:11:58wpyhyes, but right now I don't have any changes to apply :p
08:12:12wpyhI'm still learning the code, so I haven't made any changes yet
08:12:58Buschelwpyh: could you change firmware/drivers/pcf50605.c in the following way -> comment the whole #else-path in pcf50605_init()
08:13:34Buschelthen check the values in the "View PCF registers" within the debug menu?
08:13:46wpyhis it the one marked "keep initialization from svn for other iPods"?
08:13:59Buschel(it's just two lines to comment)
08:14:04wpyhoh, ok
08:14:11Buschelyes, that's the correct section
08:15:21wpyhOK. I'm quite new to this so... should I update the bootloader build or only the normal build?
08:16:52Buschelnormal build
08:16:57wpyhok
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08:24:25Buschelwpyh: another question -> could you add your battery_bench.txt to the ipodruntime wiki?
08:25:00wpyhOK, so now D1REGC is EF and D3REGC is F5
08:25:26wpyhI didn't do the benchmark using the battery bench...
08:25:27Buscheland the other regs?
08:25:39wpyhwell, wait a minute
08:25:51Buschelwpyh: regarding the bench it's a pitty :/
08:26:05wpyhwell, I can always redo the benchmark :)
08:27:07PaulJamHi, i have a question about the wake-up alarm feature: i read in the ipod video manual that the sleep timer gets disabled and the device shuts down when the alarm is set (i assume this behaviour is the same on all targets with wake-up alarm). Is this really neccessary?
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08:28:09wpyhok, it's here: http://pastebin.ca/1037568
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08:30:30amiconnPaulJam: This is to avoid that the alarm fires while the unit is still powered on (which may lead to a lockup depending on the target)
08:30:41Buschelthanks, will check the results later. maybe i'll ask you for other short tests in a few hours (gotta go to work now)
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08:31:20LinusNamiconn: as far as i know, that is only a problem on the archos
08:31:38wpyhBuschel: OK
08:32:07LinusNamiconn: and only a real problem on the modded v1:s iirc
08:33:05amiconnWell, possibly. I never used alarm wakeup, and I don't have an archos capable of alarm wakeup
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08:33:43LinusNon the modern players, we should be able to keep the player running
08:34:11amiconnIn fact I think this should be possible on archos as well
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08:34:49amiconnIirc the problem is that the rtc shorts the power switch when the alarm fires, but nothing prevents us from explicitly disabling the alarm when this happens
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08:36:21amiconn(asuming there is a status bit)
08:37:07LinusNi *think* the modded v1:s also have a problem because the rtc alarm is wired to the ON button
08:37:16amiconnOn shutdown (1) check whether the alarm bit is active. If so, disable alarm. (2) Check whether the alarm wil go off in less than a minute
08:37:24amiconnIf so, disable as well
08:37:57LinusNwouldn't it be better to handle the alarm when it triggers instead
08:37:58LinusN?
08:38:21amiconnDo we get an interrupt in this case?
08:38:24amiconnI guess not
08:38:32LinusNno, but we could poll the rtc
08:38:40LinusNwe do that anyway
08:38:56amiconnHmm, and the rtc "pressing" ON during normal operation can lead to confusion...
08:39:06LinusNthat is the real problem
08:39:17LinusNand the only one imho
08:39:37LinusNstill, that is a hw modification
08:40:28amiconnHow does the alarm wakeup work on the fm/v2?
08:40:44LinusNalmost the same thing
08:42:07amiconnDefine 'almost'
08:42:25LinusNi think they have handled the fake ON press issue, but i don't remember
08:42:39amiconnhmm :/
08:42:58amiconnThe button driver could query the rtc driver whether the ON press might be a fake one
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08:43:26LinusNperhaps
08:43:33amiconnOf course without reading the rtc everytime
08:43:47wpyhum
08:43:52amiconnThe rtc driver should know the set alarm time as well as the current time
08:44:09LinusNyes
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08:44:42amiconnSo it's a simple comparison
08:45:43wpyhIf I turn on my Nano, then go to System -> Debug Mode -> View PCF Registers (or other debug "View" screens), then connect USB while still at the screen, the device won't go indo UMS mode
08:46:04amiconnThat's expected
08:46:10wpyhAnd in the dmesg I get this: "Direct-Access Rockbox Internal Storage"
08:46:15Lloreanwpyh: The Debug screen isn't expected to behave consistently with the rest of the access.
08:46:17amiconnMost debug items don't use the default handler
08:46:18Lloreanrest of rockbox, rather
08:46:24wpyhOh
08:46:25amiconnThey're debug stuff after all
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08:47:13wpyhBut the weird thing is, if I now disconnect the USB cable, then go out to the Main Menu, then reconnect the USB cable, it still doesn't go into UMS mode
08:47:24wpyhAnd my dmesg still shows the same "Direct-Access Rockbox Internal Storage"
08:47:39amiconnLinusN: In fact it would probably be better to do it the other way 'round: The rtc driver would inhibit ON status read in the button driver when the alarm time approaches. This way no spurious ON evens should happen, neither press nor release
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08:48:06LinusNamiconn: but that could be over a minute
08:48:13amiconnAll that happens is a slight delay in registering/deregistering ON, in case the user presses it in exactly the same moment
08:48:22amiconnNo, a fraction of a second at most
08:48:33JdGordonmidgey: are you doing a single .lang for all plugins? or is it one for each?
08:48:34LinusNdo we poll the rtc that often?
08:48:39amiconnNah, everything nonsense - it's way easier
08:49:00amiconnNobody says we need to set the alarm immediately from the alarm screen, right?
08:49:15LinusNeh, no
08:49:26amiconnSo just store the fact that alarm wakeup is wanted, and actually set it on shutdown
08:49:29LinusNwe could set it only when shutting off
08:49:35midgeyJdGordon: i'm starting with a single lang for now. Bagder suggested I move onto using the user keyword to determine which strings will be loaded
08:49:42amiconnSo alarm would be always disabled while running
08:50:19LinusNamiconn: the only quirk would be that we have to handle the (rare) case when the user sets the time when an alarm is active
08:50:33amiconnhmm?
08:50:48LinusNah wait
08:51:07amiconnThe alarm would be always disabled on boot (after checking whether we're woken from alarm of course)
08:51:35LinusNi imagined a tick counting approach, but we could just as well compare the hour/minutr registers with the alarm time, silly me
08:52:56amiconnAnd time triggered events while running can be done without the rtc at all. This would even be possible on non-rtc targets
08:52:57LinusNi like that approach, it's simple and robust
08:53:26LinusNnon-rtc alarms would of course only be relative
08:53:42amiconnYes, e.g. "start recording in 2 hours". Unlike rtc targets, this will of course require disabling idle poweroff
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08:54:41LinusNbtw, idle poweroff should probably check the alarm time, and not power off if an alarm is due within 2 minutes or so
08:55:07LinusNjust to make sure it won't miss a recording because of the boot timt
08:55:09LinusNtime
08:55:19amiconnYes, and not set the alarm registers either, in order to avoid the alarm firing during shutdown
08:55:26LinusNtrue
08:55:54amiconnIt could even splash and ask "Alarm due in 2 minutes. Shutdown and disable?"
08:56:37LinusNsounds like overkill
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09:02:31PaulJamamiconn,LinusN: thanks for all that information. So for H300 would it be safe to disable that safety feature in my build until a better solution is in SVN? And if yes, where in the code should i look. (I'm still in the process of deciding wether to risk installing an inofficial bootloader to get wake-up alarm)
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09:04:44LinusNPaulJam: i don't think rockbox is able to detect the rtc alarm while running
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09:07:41PaulJamLinusN: i was planning to use the wake up in combination with the sleep timer, so the device would be off when the wake up alarm is activated.
09:08:07LinusNsure, then go ahead
09:08:32LinusNthe only risk you take is that the alarm triggers when the device is on, and you miss it
09:08:56LinusN(apart from the obvious risk of running a svn bootloader of course)
09:09:17GodEaterdoes anyone know if jhMikeS has managed to get charging into the Gigabeast builds yet ?
09:09:27LinusNi have no idea
09:09:36PaulJamLinusN: can you give me a hint where in the code i should look to disable it?
09:09:44*GodEater will plough through the commit messages
09:18:48jhMikeSGodEater: I've been a bit busy but it is being implemented.
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09:23:04LinusNhmmm, it looks like the alarm handling code is half-done already
09:27:39LinusNit doesn't seem to shut down at all
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09:32:46JdGordonPaulJam: back onto the lcd margins patch... the falshing thing is barely noticable on my e200... is it really a problem on the h300?
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09:35:41PaulJamJdGordon: not a problem for me. I'm not using the statusbar in the WPS. but it is defineately noticeable.
09:37:31PaulJamLinusN: so the manual is wrong? well, i guess it would be best if i install that bootloader and familiarise myself with that feature before bothering you. thanks again for the help.
09:38:05LinusNdon't worry
09:38:39JdGordonPaulJam: AH! I tihnk I've found the problem
09:40:17JdGordonPaulJam: got a min to try a quick fix?
09:40:23PaulJamsure
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09:48:51PaulJamJdGordon: yes, that semms to fix it.
09:49:00JdGordon:)
09:49:32JdGordonthats another bit of the wps refresh code which wasnt completly converted for viewports
09:49:47*JdGordon moves on the rest of the patched screens
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09:54:26pixelmawas that also the reason for the delayed status bar area refresh when leaving the wps?
09:55:24JdGordon?
09:55:28JdGordonwith the patch or svn?
09:55:39pixelmain svn
09:56:07JdGordoncould be.. I havnt noticed that though
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09:59:13pixelmait looks like the status bar is redrawn a little later than the rest of the screen when leaving the wps so you can see that part of your wps a little longer. Noticable on all my targets (probably in the sim too)
10:00
10:00:13JdGordonhmm.. no, probably unrelated, itll be in menu.c... should be an easy fix..
10:00:22JdGordonthe rec screen always shows the statusbar yeah?
10:01:11pixelmaI think so, it's even a special rec screen status bar
10:06:06*JdGordon despises the rec screen drawing code!
10:06:24pixelmaBagder: wanted to ask - is the problem you explained in the ml already solved?
10:06:51B4gderuhm, what problem do you refer to?
10:07:14pixelmathe hostel one
10:07:15peturJdGordon: that status bar is special because of the specific data shown in there
10:07:28B4gderpixelma: ah yes, amiconn helped me out with that
10:07:40pixelmaok, nice :)
10:08:18JdGordonpetur: yeah, thats not the part im complaiing about.. all the rest is driving me mad :p
10:08:34peturJdGordon: that I understand ;)
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10:16:31*JdGordon is hoping he can get away with a easy fix untill the rec screen is finally redone
10:19:34JdGordonOH this is horrible!
10:19:53petur...more golden quotes...
10:19:56JdGordonno offense to anyone.. :p
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10:28:27JdGordonweeee :D I tihnk its done... just need testers to make sure I havnt broken the rec screen... volanteers?
10:29:18B4gderviolanteers?
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10:30:43JdGordonyes, I still can't spell :p
10:31:06B4gderI'm thinking perhaps it's a particularly brutal kind of volunteers
10:31:38peturjust don't commit before fully tested
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10:31:52*petur has 0 time :(
10:32:23*JdGordon wonders where B4gder got the extra i from
10:32:33*B4gder had a spare one to offer
10:32:47B4gderalways happy to help!
10:32:50JdGordon:)
10:37:11JdGordonpixelma: hows the conditional viewport fiddling going?
10:39:51pixelmaprepared screenshots and got the "empty" viewports version ready which I wanted to post as .wps. But wanted to also post a simplified version of the latter because I think it's easier for investigating, going to prepare this and then post a comment
10:40:14JdGordongreat
10:40:54JdGordonthe remove lcd margins patch is hopefully now finished, so its waiting on the cond vp and pb patches to be complete
10:40:57pixelmathe wps file is already a bit commented, I'm not sure how far I should go with this
10:41:33JdGordonarg, just remembered I havtn fixed the plain %pb handling.. ill do that now
10:43:25pixelmaremoving the left margin will make that wps even more complicated and I would either need a set of even more viewports (which wouldn't be possible atm) or more graphics but then it isn't as flexible anymore :\ But I know it should go...
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10:44:55JdGordon? why the need for extra viewports?
10:45:19JdGordondont you just setup one viewport with everything if AA is there, another with everything is AA isnt there and just display one or the other?
10:45:28JdGordonor is everything moving around?
10:47:20pixelmait's not moving around but I used viewports with (and for) different background and foreground colours to e.g. show volume level differently when it's above 0dB etc.
10:48:01pixelmawith a different foreground colour so you notice more easily
10:50:02pixelmamaybe it's a bit too much currently :P
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11:07:57pixelmaif a viewport could change its colours conditionally though, I wouldn't have to set them up as different viewports... ui...
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11:13:57leftrightpreglow: ping
11:15:59PaulJamJdGordon: a tiny issue with the recording screen and the latest remove margins patch: the selectable items (volume,gain,...) now have an offset from the left side of the screen, but the item which is currently selected doesn't have this offset. this happens when using one of the bar-style selectortypes. when using the pointer, then the offset stays the same for the selected item.
11:22:21JdGordonnuts.. OK.. I added those offsets for the cursor and didnt realise thatw as the same code as the selector drawing :(
11:22:23JdGordonthanks
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11:25:13krzhi! does rockbox run on sansa e280 FM?
11:27:20JdGordonas long as its v1
11:27:47krzand v2 are not supported?
11:28:01Lloreanv2 do not work at all
11:29:24krzso, can you advice what player to buy that supports roclbox? may be new ports?
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11:30:14*JdGordon has old style %pb working again
11:30:26JdGordonso now %pb or %pb|filename|x|y|width|height| works
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11:43:38JdGordonpixelma: if a y position isnt specified for the %pb, should it use the viewport y value, or should it be polaced at the current line?
11:44:08JdGordonby current line, I mean if its the 3rd line in the viewport text in the .wps, it will be shown on the 3rd line of the viewport
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11:46:41*JdGordon thinks the lines y position, not the viewports makes more sense
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11:47:37PaulJamJdGordon: i would say the progressbar should be at the current line in the viewport/WPS. this way it is still possible to make text-only WPS that are independent of font size.
11:47:45LloreanJdGordon: If it's the third line after the viewport declaration in the file, it should be on the third line of the viewport, I think
11:47:54LloreanBasically, have it work the same way as text, if no Y is set
11:48:00JdGordonyep
11:49:34pixelmathis is also like it works now
11:49:57JdGordonok, fixed the patch so it does that
11:51:08*JdGordon flips back to the margins patch to fix its issue
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11:57:23JdGordonPaulJam: that selection problem is now fixed
11:57:50PaulJamJdGordon: ok, thanks
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12:20:43markunpreglow: some comparisons between the speex resampler and an FFT based one, could be useful for someone wanting to implement a better resampler for rockbox: http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/speex-dev/2008-May/006759.html
12:23:33wpyhDoes anyone have the iPod Video 5.5g here?
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12:30:46preglowmarkun: i can pretty much guarantee you the rockbox resampler won't be a block based one
12:31:06preglowleftright: pong...
12:35:24JdGordonwhat does everyone think of 9053? mouting cards as <volume name> instead of <microSD1> and includes database integration :)
12:35:59LloreanDoes the database integration work if you have two cards with the same volume name?
12:36:20JdGordonprobably not...
12:36:33markunpreglow: bad for performance?
12:37:10preglowmarkun: well, the opposite, actually, if you use filters that are long enough
12:37:23preglowbut i don't think we can afford that quality level if we're going to make a resampler for all our targets
12:37:57LloreanJdGordon: Way I see it, the database for the card should be stored in a .rockbox folder on the card, rather than trying to be clever and identify cards by volume name or keep them in the local database.
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12:38:19preglowJdGordon: i'd love "volume name" if it works as well as the current solution
12:38:32LloreanJust "volume name" though, I'm happy with the idea of.
12:38:39markunpreglow: we could introduce a USE_HQ_RESAMPLER define
12:38:51preglowmarkun: sure, but someone would need to code it first too :)
12:39:10preglowmarkun: i'd rather just make it a setting anyway, i think, for targets with the power to pull it off
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12:39:21JdGordonLlorean: well, keeping them in the local databse file is easier, but yeah, it should probably go by the cards serial number instead of the vol name
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12:40:12LloreanJdGordon: How do you know when to remove them from the local database?
12:40:26JdGordonyou dont....
12:40:36JdGordonthey arnt shown unless the car is there though
12:40:56LloreanYeah, but if you've got several cards, you'll have a database many times the size it needs to be.
12:41:07LloreanPretty painful with "Load to Ram"
12:41:17JdGordonyeah
12:42:51LloreanPersonally speaking, if it's going to be kept locally, I'd rather it discard every time a new card is inserted, then scan the new card. So you only waste space on the last inserted card.
12:43:41LloreanFor people with a single card, there's no real downside to that. For people with multiple, there's some delay before the content's available, but not ballooning database file.
12:44:19JdGordonworst case is we can add an option to remove certain cards from the db
12:46:21preglowwhy isn't the db for each card stored on the card?
12:49:46*wpyh thinks preglow has a point
12:50:09preglowoh, i'm quite sure people have a reason for it, i just want to know what that is :>
12:50:44JdGordonhard to do maybe?
12:51:38preglowwell, i can see a problem in memory allocation
12:51:47preglowbut that's that
12:52:57preglowwe should implement a way for rockbox to dynamically realloc its memalloc() sections
12:53:02preglowit would really come in handy for things like this
12:53:12preglowand zillions of other things
12:53:44preglowwould require playback to be stopped, of course, but i think that's ok for events as uncommon as inserting a new card
12:54:22JdGordonit can be done...
12:54:27JdGordonbut its malloc!!
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12:55:12LloreanDoesn't database already have a means for adding new information via auto-update?
12:55:16preglowmalloc wouldn't require you to stop playback :>
12:55:26LloreanLike, preserving some space already?
12:55:44preglowLlorean: yeah, but think how much space you'd need to reserve for a 16 gig card
12:55:52preglowLlorean: it would be wasteful for people who have no sd cards
12:56:59LloreanWell, and it's only really a problem if "Load to Ram" is set, right?
12:57:29LloreanAnd, on all MicroSD targets (so far) buffer is less meaningful due to flash memory being the order of the dya.
12:59:07preglowmyeah
12:59:18LloreanIt seems though, to me at least, on targets where we can't reserve a bunch of RAM, it's not too bad to say "Too many songs on card, reboot to complete database update" or some such.
12:59:28LloreanBasically, on future hypothetical targets.
12:59:32preglowproper solution would be better :>
12:59:36preglowbut yeah, it would work
12:59:47LloreanA working solution, though, would be kinda nice until someone has such a clever idea. :)
13:00
13:00:00pixelmalast I tried a manual "update now" without the card didn't even work right when the database was initialised with card (MMC in my case, hence database not loaded to RAM). The "database progress" in the debug menu stayed at "-1%"
13:00:03preglowbut storing the database on the card really makes sense, if you ask me
13:00:10LloreanSince, while it's kinda non-ideal, it's non-ideal in a way that doesn't hurt current targets.
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13:00:17LloreanAnd I agree, the database should be on the card.
13:04:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:05:11amiconnJdGordon: Volume name as card name was discussed in the past already
13:05:40amiconnIt has two problems: (1) (V)FAT doesn't require a volume name, so what to do if there is no name?
13:05:56amiconn(2) What to do if 2 volumes have the same name?
13:06:28amiconnRegarding multivolume database support - that's something I wanted for a long time already
13:07:07pixelmaseems to have worked now while trying on the c200, still without the database loaded to RAM. But the "progress" in the database info debug screen didn't tell me anything useful
13:07:14amiconnIt shouldn't use the volume name though. It could either use the volume serial number, or some unique id written to a tiny file on the card
13:07:36preglowserial number would be good, no?
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13:08:37preglowall internal iding should be done using the serial number or some such equivalent, so 1) isn't much of a point, if you ask me. we'll just say "new volume" if there's no volume name. it's no worse than the current "MicroSD"
13:09:17preglowalso, 2) isn't much of a point either. all current cards have the same name "MicroSD" (or mmc or whatever)
13:09:52pixelmathat's not the volume name IIUC
13:09:54LloreanIsn't it MicroSD1?
13:10:12preglowwell, something along that, i've never tried a (functioning) target with memory card support
13:11:35pixelmae.g. I have two MMCs which I gave a different volume name on the computer and there I can see them differently, on the Ondio both are MMC1
13:11:51preglowwhy the "1", btw?
13:12:04pixelmaMMC0 is the internal memory
13:12:09preglowroit
13:12:16preglowexplains the sansa as well, then
13:13:00JdGordonyes, although its not really needed seen as the files arent named as <microSD0>/.rockbox/....
13:13:14preglowdeed
13:13:39LloreanHow does the multivolume on Archos work?
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13:13:46LloreanAre partitions just enumerated, or named?
13:13:48preglowbut still, if we use the serial number or a good substitute to _internally_ identify the card, i can see nothing but good reasons to switch to using the volume name for identification in userland
13:14:08amiconnLlorean: They are enumerated the same way as for the MMC and SD targets
13:14:17Lloreanamiconn: Okay, thought that might be the case.
13:14:24Lloreanpreglow: Playlists would break if the volume name ever changes.
13:14:32LloreanHaving a static folder name for the card prevents this.
13:14:37amiconnThe '1' is just the internal volume id, the 'MMC' or 'microSD' is an arbitrary prefix
13:15:05preglowLlorean: we could have some magic string for memory card, i suppose, but i see your point
13:15:09amiconnAnd the < > were chosen because those characters are forbidden on FAT, so the name cannot clash with an existing directory
13:15:13preglowamiconn: do you know how large mmc cards you can get these days?
13:15:14Lloreanpreglow: You could always use an internal name for the folder "MicroSD " still perhaps to not break old playlists, but display it as the volume name.
13:15:30amiconnpreglow: 4GB is still the max. unfortunately :(
13:15:40amiconn8GB were announced almost 2 years ago...
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13:15:58preglowhmm, ok, so there is a good reason to support them for d2
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13:19:30amiconnpreglow: Btw, MMC requires a new protocol (MMC 4.2) for >4 GB
13:19:47*preglow wonders why they didn't solve it like sd did
13:19:48amiconnI guess the difference is similar to SD vs. SDHC
13:19:51preglowahh
13:20:19amiconnThe MMC 4.2 addressing uses blocks instead of bytes
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14:01:32leftrightpreglow: I have a url to the album with bumpy track transitions http://drop.io/Album_with_bumpy_track_transition
14:02:46leftrightI haven't used this online storer before, let me know if you have problems
14:05:31leftrightthe album has tracks encoded by me with LAME v3.90.3 −−aps, and mp3@320 which I "found" on the web
14:07:49pixelmahow do you know those were encoded correctly then?
14:07:50*petur thinks a logged channel isn't the best place to write all this
14:09:30leftrightthe 320 tracks I'm uncertain as to ripping and encoding method
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14:15:25markunleftright: do the albums play back fine in other players like foobar2000?
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14:16:39leftrightdont know as I dont use any other player, its no big deal just thought you might be innterested in tracks that go bump.
14:17:15Nathan_GreenePrefetch abort at FFFFFFFE
14:17:32B4gdercool address :-O
14:17:46Nathan_GreeneThat's the error on my rockboxed ipod
14:17:56Nathan_GreeneI can't turn it off
14:18:17LloreanNathan_Greene: Hold Menu+Select will still work after a prefetch abort.
14:18:32Nathan_GreeneAh ok I did not think about that
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14:18:53Nathan_GreeneWhat would have caused this error if any of the devs don't mind me asking?
14:19:49LloreanI think we're the ones who should be asking things like "What were you doing when it happened" to help figure that out. ;)
14:20:16Nathan_GreeneI added a new theme I am working on to my ipod
14:20:30Nathan_Greeneejected it then then took out my cable
14:20:50Nathan_Greenerockbox rebooted and bam error
14:21:59LloreanYou didn't do anything on reboot? No resume on startup, or anything?
14:22:26Nathan_GreeneNo
14:22:32Nathan_GreeneJust a normal reboot
14:23:09LloreanThere's more or less a complete lack of clues then.
14:23:41Nathan_GreeneDoes rockbox do an error dump?
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14:25:34Nathan_GreeneI guess that's a no?
14:26:04peturindeed
14:26:56wpyhNathan_Greene: you can try running scandisk on the iPod
14:27:20LloreanSorry, doing too many things at once.
14:27:45LloreanThere's really not much in the way of logging unless you make a debug build, and that requires explicit logging anyway.
14:29:20Nathan_Greeneah ok
14:29:54Nathan_GreeneThanks for the help otherwise
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14:54:55JdGordonLinusN: any idea if 6112 is fixed, or should be closed as unfixable?
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15:02:52LinusNi think we can close it, since there isn't much we can do about it
15:04:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:04:47JdGordonok
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15:09:20tdaHello
15:09:34tdaI have a Gigabeat f20
15:09:45LambdaCalculus37Nice choice. :)
15:09:46LambdaCalculus37Need some help?
15:09:53tdayup
15:09:59LambdaCalculus37Shoot.
15:10:19tdaI update rockbox very frequently, like at least once a week. I updated it again today.
15:10:33tdaAnyway, the last few days, I've been having a problem in the now playing view
15:10:48tdaI can't switch songs by pressing left or right on the +-shaped buttons
15:10:59tdaI can fast-forward and rewind, but not switch song
15:11:23LloreanHave you tried simply resetting your settings?
15:11:30tdaUm... no..
15:11:44tdaI've got so many custom settings I don't wanna lose. :P
15:11:56LambdaCalculus37So make a backup of your settings.
15:12:03LambdaCalculus37Then reset, and see if it works again.
15:12:20tdaHmm...
15:12:27tdaK, I'll give it a try when I get home
15:12:30tdaI'm at work now, so...
15:12:52LambdaCalculus37You can do that all without even hooking up to a computer.
15:12:59pixelmamaybe "study mode" got enabled by accident?
15:13:05tdaYeah, but it's quicker with a computer.
15:13:09tdaWhat's study mode?
15:13:21pixelmagood question...
15:13:23Lloreanpixelma: Certainly not quicker than waiting hours to get home. ;)
15:13:28tdaand it's not enabled
15:13:31tdaI just checked
15:13:42tdaLlorean: I'll be home within an hour. :P
15:13:55Lloreantda: I can backup and clear settings in less than 15 seconds. :-P
15:14:10pixelmaLlorean: why did you tell me?
15:14:15tdaThen, tell me what to press, Llorean. :P
15:14:35Lloreanpixelma: It's early, and I type poorly when my brain isn't yet functioning.
15:14:46tdaGet some caffeine. :P
15:14:52Lloreantda: Just cut config.cfg from the context menu, paste it in the root, then shutdown, and boot holding down the button to reset settings.
15:14:53LambdaCalculus37tda: Follow along, now.
15:15:09Lloreanroot can be anywhere of course, just the most obvious place for a quick backup I think
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15:15:20LambdaCalculus37Llorean: There's also an option to reset settings in the Settings menu.
15:15:41LloreanLambdaCalculus37: Yes, there is, but it takes longer than a reboot if you're not quick navigating. I went for "fastest method that doesn't depend on user skill"
15:15:59LambdaCalculus37Llorean: Ahh.
15:17:08tdaWhich button do I hold down?
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15:17:42LloreanThe menu button I think. It's been a while.
15:17:47tdak
15:17:50LloreanMaybe "A"
15:17:58tdaI'll try both
15:19:43pixelma"Note: You can also reset all settings to their default values by turning off the b player, turning it back on and pressing the A button immediately after the player
15:19:43pixelmaturns on.
15:19:52tdadone
15:20:25tdaWorks like a charm again :D
15:20:43pixelmatypo in that cp'ed line of the manual...
15:20:44tdathanks, folks =)
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15:21:42pixelmaah no, seems to have to do with the copy-pasting
15:22:55tdaNow that I'm here, does anyone have any tips on improving battery life?
15:24:11Llorean Is your player not lasting the day?
15:27:21markuntda: I've put a modified ipod 4g battery in my gigabeat
15:28:39markunjust swapped the connectors
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15:29:31tdaLlorean: More like 12-14 hours, and even less when using FLAC
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15:49:20japchi, is there a way to put the player on standby instead of shuting it down?
15:49:28japcit's a iriver h140
15:50:23japci noticed that starting the player eats a lot of battery, returning from standby would be faster and less power hungry even taken into account the power used in standby
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16:41:12kugelmidgey: nice! Your patch isn't utf-8 though
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17:04:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:21:55esluHello
17:22:13eslui'm having a problem playing videos on my iPod Video 30gb with Rockbox firmware.
17:22:24esluDoesn't Rockbox support videos?
17:23:24scorche|shyes...please see the wiki page PluginMpegplayer
17:24:14eslu"MPEGplayer is included in the standard Rockbox installation and does not need to be downloaded separately."
17:24:21esluThen i have it, but still i cant play videos,.
17:24:28LambdaCalculus37Rockbox only plays MPEG1/2 videos.
17:24:28scorche|shkeep reading...
17:24:39esluive encoded it to MPEG videos also.
17:24:43eslustill doesnt work
17:25:08scorche|shMPEG1 or MPEG2?...not MPEG4?
17:25:35esluthere the issue may be.
17:25:51eslumy file has a mp4 extention
17:26:25LambdaCalculus37Then you need to read the page further.
17:26:45eslui have a program to convert from before.
17:26:50esluno need to read
17:26:54esluthe rest
17:27:14scorche|shalright, but if it still doesnt work, then we get to tell you that you do again ;)
17:31:29esluCheer, works.
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18:53:13PaulPositionCould viewports overlap? (ie, to show extra info - pop-up style - when hold switch is on, now that there are conditional viewports)...
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18:59:31PaulJamPaulPosition: conditional Viewports aren't yet in SVN
19:00
19:01:35PaulPositionYeah, I know... Was asking if there's any chance it works before I go to the hassle of downloading the vmware image all over again (recently reinstalled my whole system..) :p
19:02:07PaulPositionBut I guess I'm gonna start the transfer, see for myself, and be done with it !
19:02:27markunI thought they were in svn already
19:02:36PaulPositionviewports are, not conditionals
19:02:46markunah, yes
19:04:30pixelmaconditionals too, but not conditional viewports ;)
19:04:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:05:15PaulPositionDang, I blame my lazyness... should have stated "viewport are, not conditional ones" :p
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19:12:42*Buschel thinks we should remove setting the pcf-values for non-Video-iPods
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19:13:25Buschelwpyh's measurements shows that default voltages of the pcf are lower in one example (D1REGC)
19:14:01Buschelit's no good idea to enlarge voltages where we do not know the purpose
19:14:59PaulPositionAndree - Are those recent tests and changes specific to iPods hardware or they're general PP stuff (any chance of things cascading into improvements to other targets) ? (just curious)
19:15:11wpyhWell, there's no publicly available datasheet for the PCF50605 either
19:16:45BuschelPaulPosition: some voltages are PP-specific (core voltage differs over different PP-revisions). but those are not set by the pcf-initialization-routine. the ones that are set are connected to codec and lcd (at least for the iPod Video −− for other targets it needs to be tested)
19:17:14Buschelwpyh: it's available under wiki -> datasheets
19:19:07wpyhOh
19:19:55Buschelwpyh: do you have time for some testing?
19:20:40wpyhA little
19:20:42wpyh:)
19:21:30wpyhWhat do you want to test?
19:22:01Buscheladding/changing some code, rebuilding (only make, no make clean) and testing on your nano
19:22:11Buschelis this possible?
19:22:26wpyhWell, OK
19:22:47Buschelso, let's see what the voltages are used for in nano :o)
19:23:35Buschelall changes to be done in firmware/drivers/pcf50605.c in the "#else"-section you've changes yesterday
19:24:09wpyhok
19:24:20wpyhso basically, comment the non-video part, right?
19:24:59Buschel1. add "pcf50605_write(PCF5060X_LPREGC1, 0x1f)
19:25:05Buschelyes, the non-video part
19:25:23Buschelwpyh: oops, forgot the ;"
19:25:39wpyhis this dangerous?
19:25:42wpyh:p
19:26:11Buschelit switches off something... ;o) in the worst case you'll need to reset and go back to emergeny disk mode
19:26:23wpyhok
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19:27:13 Quit amiconn (" reboot, grr")
19:27:23wpyhthen?
19:27:42Buschelwpyh: please always check a) does it start? b) does it play sound c) does display work?
19:29:21wpyhok
19:29:38wpyhby the way, reading the datasheet I think 0x1f would be a reserved value :p
19:30:15Buscheland x16? :)
19:30:26Buschelmy mistake...
19:30:57wpyhso, I should use 0x16 instead of 0x1f right?
19:31:56Buschelyes
19:32:30wpyhok
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19:33:18wpyhUh
19:33:28wpyhit starts bug got an error: ATA error: -11
19:33:33wpyh*but*
19:33:53Buschelok, ata-relevant. so undo this change :-)
19:33:56wpyhok
19:34:45wpyhnext?
19:36:30Buschelthen change "pcf50605_write(PCF5060X_D1REGC1, 0xf5);" to "pcf50605_write(PCF5060X_D1REGC1, 0x15);"
19:36:56Buschelmaybe this one disables the codec
19:37:21wpyhok, let's try it
19:38:12wpyhwhile we'er waiting for the compile to finish, do you know what the ECO power mode does?
19:38:21wpyhthe datasheet says it's a low power mode
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19:40:31Buschellol, my baby removedcmy usb wlan-adapter :-)
19:40:46wpyhBuschel: now it loads but doesn't play music
19:41:14wpyhthe timer just stops at 00:00
19:41:20Buschelwpyh: perfect. it's the codec.
19:41:44wpyhgreat. now we know one more thing about the hardware
19:42:13Buschelwpyh: change it to 0xeb (=2.0V, ECO)
19:43:28Buschelwpyh: does it distort when playing at high volume?
19:43:42wpyhplease wait
19:45:50Buschelsvn drives the codec 3.0V on nano, whereas the pcf-default uses 2.4V...
19:45:57wpyhit plays music!
19:46:17Buscheldoes it distort?
19:46:22wpyhbut I don't know how to test whether it distorts when playing at high volume
19:46:25wpyhhow do I test?
19:46:32wpyhI mean, I can play high volumes
19:46:34Buschelwpyh: btw, ECo mode limits the current
19:46:44wpyhbut how do I know whether it is distorted? :-\
19:46:45amiconnI guess ECO mode is no good for the codec
19:46:56Buschelamiconn: i think about the same
19:47:06amiconnIirc it's limited to 5mA, and the codec surely needs more when driving low impedance phones
19:47:22Buschelwpyh: use 0xfb (2.0V, non-ECO)
19:47:39wpyhUh
19:48:03wpyhIf I'm not mistaken, 0xeb should be the ON mode
19:48:09wpyhI'm looking at Table 16
19:48:21BuschelON instead of ECO
19:49:07wpyhyes
19:49:18wpyhsince with 0xeb the bits 7-5 would be all 1
19:49:30wpyhwouldn't the ECO mode be 0x4B
19:49:52Buschelwpyh: that's what i want to check. non-ECO should be better for a codec when driving low-impedance (in terms of sound quality)
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19:51:07amiconnIirc the codec of the 1st gen ipod needs ~8mA idle current already (i.e. more than 5mA)
19:51:54amiconnIt might be that the newer ones need less though (different wolfsons all over)
19:52:04wpyhI think 0xfb should be reserved too...
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19:53:03wpyhThe mode I just tested was 0xeb, which is ON, 2.0V
19:53:14wpyhI will try 0x4b, which is ECO, 2.0V
19:53:21wpyhCorrect me if I'm wrong
19:55:00Buscheldamn, now we all are confused... 0xeb already is 2.0V ON.
19:55:26Buschelso, finished with this register
19:55:57wpyhOK, with 0x4b I can hear some distortions in bass for high volumes
19:56:02wpyhI'm using 32 ohm phones
19:56:36wpyhok, next
19:56:58Buschellet's check D3REGC with "pcf50605_write(PCF5060X_D3REGC1, 0x15);"
19:57:07wpyhso that's OFF
19:57:11Buschelyes
19:57:14wpyhok
19:57:30Buschelthis could be the LCD. so prepare for reset :)
19:57:36wpyhok :p
19:58:04wpyhby the way, if this is the LCD then how does the LCD brightness get set?
19:58:11wpyhWe can set the LCD brightness already
19:58:40amiconnThere is a pwm circuit
19:58:47amiconn(same as in the ipod video)
19:58:52wpyhOh, I see
19:59:00wpyhbtw, you're right Buschel
19:59:17wpyhthe LCD is washed white with a faint Rockbox logo
19:59:20wpyhit's unusable
19:59:22wpyh:p
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19:59:49Buschelperfect:)
19:59:59wpyhbtw, why don't we just use the settings for the ipod video?
20:00
20:00:20Buscheli don't know whether the interperation of the settings is the same
20:00:35Buschelchange 0x15 to 0xf1 (same as Video)
20:00:35wpyhInterpretation of the settings?
20:00:47wpyhok, let's see
20:01:19Buschelinterpretation = same hardware connected?
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20:01:41wpyhoh..
20:01:50wpyhthen how did the video get those values in the first place?
20:02:03Buschelby testing from my side :)
20:02:12Buschelsame as you di right now for the nano
20:02:16Buschel*do
20:02:26wpyhoh :p
20:02:36wpyhthe lcd works
20:02:37wpyh:)
20:03:03wpyhhow about setting the LCD to ECO?
20:03:07wpyhdid you try that?
20:03:43Buschelyes. it works, but i wasn't sure if it is ok for long term usage
20:04:03wpyhyou mean the ECO mode might damage the hardware?
20:04:26amiconnIf it's actually the lcd only, and not the backlight, eco should work for the nano's lcd controller
20:04:59 Quit PaulPosition (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:05:00Buschelno, i was not sure whether the contrast may suffer
20:05:14amiconnLCD controlllers don't need much power; the one in the ipod video might be different though
20:05:40wpyhwell, let's see whether it works with 1.8V then
20:05:43Buschelwpyh: so, testing with ECO would be fine
20:05:54amiconn(because it's not only an lcd controller but also a video dsp)
20:06:01wpyhok
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20:06:22wpyhamiconn: let's try with ECO 2.6V then
20:06:56wpyhby the way, the way I do it currently is: make, make fullzip, mount, unzip to mountpoint, unmount
20:07:03Buschelon the Video the contrast suffers with <=2.5V
20:07:16wpyhis there a faster way? (i.e. no need to build the zip; only copy the important files)
20:07:41amiconnJust copying rockbox.ipod should be enough
20:07:48amiconn(goes into .rockbox)
20:07:48wpyhok, thanks
20:07:49Buschelwpyh: that's perfectly ok. to save time you may just copy rockbox.ipod to the rockbox-folder on your nano
20:08:04Buschelamiconn: you were faster ;)
20:08:08wpyhand I can just make rockbox.ipod?
20:08:10 Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection)
20:08:17amiconnmake bin
20:08:31Buschelfaster again :)
20:08:42wpyhoh, ok
20:08:47n1swpyh: also make zip includes everything but fonts so if you need a full build use that
20:08:47wpyhby the way, it works with 0x51
20:08:56wpyhn1s: ok
20:09:36amiconn:P
20:09:39Buschelwpyh: can you see any degradation in contrast when further lowering the voltage?
20:10:44*amiconn should probably check voltages on mini G2 one of these days...
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20:11:00amiconnMaybe also H10
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20:12:05wpyhuh weird
20:12:08Buschelamiconn: good idea
20:12:25wpyhI set D3REGC1 to 0x4b (ECO 2.0V) and it gave me ATA error: -11 upon boot
20:13:04wpyhif I set it back to 0x51, it boots fine
20:13:27wpyhso the ATA error -11 might be caused by some combined problems
20:13:30wpyhany ideas?
20:14:30Buschelnot really
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20:15:35Buschelso, we better leave it at 0x51
20:15:52wpyhlet me try to determine the best mode
20:16:00wpyh0x50 works, but the screen flickers
20:16:11wpyh0x4f doesn't work (same ata error -11)
20:18:34wpyhok, the screen flickers even in the default mode
20:19:04wpyhby the way, it would be easier if we could set these at runtime...
20:19:09Buschelso, 0x51 is ok then
20:19:38wpyhyes, I think 0x51 is ok
20:19:47wpyhbut 0x50 isn't too much different either
20:20:25wpyhgranted, 0xf5 looks best :)
20:20:59wpyhoh, 0x55 looks as good as 0xf5
20:21:11wpyhso we now know that the ECO mode doesn't affect display quality
20:21:34 Quit Schmogel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
20:21:36amiconnThe HD66789R datasheet says 2.4..3.3V.
20:21:50amiconnBut current consuption can actually be >5mA when accessing display ram
20:22:33amiconnTypical 11mA when not using HWM
20:23:30Buschelso, using 0xf1 (2.6V ON) would be fine
20:23:37wpyhok
20:23:46Buschelstill less than default
20:23:56wpyhso we can't use the ECO mode?
20:24:24Buschelno for svn i guess, but for local builds and further testing
20:24:33wpyhok
20:24:47amiconnThose 11mA are 3 Vccs combined though. Dunno which one(s) is/are hooked to D3REG
20:24:49wpyh0xf1 is quite good
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20:25:58wpyhamiconn: I don't know much about hardware, but does that mean ECO mode might be OK? sorry for the noise..
20:27:15amiconnIt would require ipod hardware documentation (or completely stripping a pcb without destroying traces, then tracing with a multimeter) to say for sure
20:27:25wpyhoh...
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20:29:18Buschelok, soe for now we have D1REGC = 0xfb (codec at 2.0V ON) and D3REGC1 = 0xf1 (lcd at 2.6V ON)
20:29:33amiconnYeah, undocumented hardware can be "fun"
20:30:44Buschelwpyh: next try -> set DCUDC1 to off (=0x03) -> might not start, maybe connected to SDRAM
20:30:53 Part kretender
20:32:37wpyh2.0V ON for the codec is EB, not FB...
20:33:29Buscheloops
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20:34:08Buscheli would have checked before submitting such changes though
20:35:40wpyhand btw I still get distortion with 0xeb for the codec
20:35:46wpyhyou sure you want this in the svn?
20:35:59wpyhwith 0xf5 I'm still getting distortion, but only a little
20:37:46wpyhof course, 0xf8 gives even less distortion
20:38:03wpyh0xf8 is 3.3V ON, so would it damage the hardware?
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20:45:48Buschelwpyh: hmm, 3.3V should be working. the codecs normally work from 1.8...3.6
20:46:05wpyhwell, I'd say let's use 3.3V then
20:46:15wpyh3.3V is the max. specified in the datasheet :p
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20:46:24wpyhI didn't try ECO 3.3V though
20:47:03Buschelwpyh: you really hear distortions which reducde a lot when using higher voltage supply? i never heard distortions when checking for the ipod video
20:48:14wpyhwell, I turned the volume up to max
20:48:36Buschelin bass or in treble?
20:48:41wpyhand listened to Hotel California, the early (~0:30-1:00) drum part
20:48:44wpyhin the bass
20:48:46Buschel(the distortions)
20:48:49Buschelok
20:48:54 Quit stripwax_ ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
20:48:54wpyhthe other parts I can't quite hear the distortions
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20:51:29wpyhBuschel: I think we can have a setting for this, like "Use high-quality sound"
20:51:38wpyhor maybe we can automate the whole process
20:51:49Buschelso, what you might check now is to use the IPOD_VIDEO-section also for IPOD_NANO. you may additionally change the IOREGC to 0xf5
20:52:04wpyhif the volume is low, we use a low voltage, if the volume is high then we use a high voltage
20:52:35Buschelwpyh: normally rockbox should use high-quality. if someone can hear any difference the "best" setting should be used
20:53:02wpyhok
20:53:19Buschelwpyh: we "might" add some pcf low power config or something like this... (just thinking)
20:54:07wpyhok
20:54:21wpyhbtw, for the ipod video, the D1REGC1 is 2.5V ON
20:54:31wpyhshould it be also changed to 3.3V ON?
20:54:39n1splease no more options unless they are really needed, so what would a pcf low power setting cause that would want someone to turn it off?
20:55:25n1ss/would want someone/would cause someone/
20:56:21wpyhwell, we can make the power management automatic...
20:56:30Buscheln1s: as i said, i was just thinking... it's always quality vs. runtime
20:56:55wpyhbut I noticed that the distortion is inaudible at low volumes
20:57:05Buschelwpyh: no, then we would need to mute/demute as voltage switching causes glitches
20:57:15wpyhuh
20:57:21wpyhI didn't know that, sorry
20:57:51n1sBuschel: imho that is something that does not belong in official builds (a low power thing that causes audio quality degradation)
20:59:03wpyhI changed the IOREGC to 0xf5 as you said, but didn't notice anything changed
21:00
21:00:33Buscheln1s: the interesting thing is that the pcf's default for the nano uses 2.4V which seems to have distortion as wpyh states
21:01:05Buscheln1s: i would really like to know whether the firmware increases this voltage...
21:01:21wpyhBuschel: even 3.3V produces distortions
21:01:33wpyhbut the distortions are lesser
21:02:45scorche|shwpyh: what volume are ylou testing this at?
21:02:47wpyhAnd they happen only in the very high volumes (I needed to turn the volume up to max to hear it)
21:02:58scorche|shyou mean above 0?
21:03:02wpyhscorche|sh: I tested it at max volume
21:03:09wpyhyes, should be above 0
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21:03:20scorche|shabove 0 clipping is expected...
21:03:22wpyhuh, that may be the cause...
21:03:27PaulJamamiconn: did you write the PCF50606 driver for h300?
21:03:28wpyhum...
21:03:35scorche|sh0 = line level...
21:03:47Buschelhmm, so testing at a maximum of 0dB would be appropriate?
21:04:00scorche|shBuschel: i would say so
21:04:02wpyhscorche|sh: yes...
21:04:05wpyhlet's try it again
21:04:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:10:53wpyhok
21:11:12wpyhtesting at 0 db I didn't hear much of a distortion, both with 0xf0 and 0xf8
21:11:26wpyhI mean I didn't hear much of a *difference*
21:11:56Buschelthat's good. and with xeb?
21:12:27wpyhI'll try that
21:17:44wpyh0xeb gives more distortion in the bass, at 0 db
21:17:50wpyhbut it's not so noticeable
21:18:06wpyhI think you might want to verify this with another tester :)
21:19:01wpyhby the way, what does IOREGC do?
21:20:21Buschelit powers the pcf's i/o (e.g. i2c)
21:21:00Buschelif you switch it off, there is no more i2c communication possible (e.g. for RTC)
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21:21:49wpyhI don't really understand / know what this i2c bus is used for
21:21:54wpyh:p
21:22:00wpyhAnyway, that's all for today
21:22:06wpyhI gotta get some sleep
21:22:19Buschelwpyh: thank you a lot for your time!
21:22:30wpyhyou're welcome :)
21:22:49wpyhI know that I'll also benefit from improvements :)
21:23:21inagiIs there a way to organize photos other than by date created when viewing them in Rockbox? That way makes it kinda hard to find them...
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21:32:50CtcpPing on #rockbox from gevaerts!n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
21:36:05gevaertsSorry for the ping everyone. My finger slipped so I pressed enter instead of backspace just after /ping :(
21:36:28*LambdaCalculus37 hands gevaerts a new set of fingers :)
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22:00
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22:20:18Laurahello
22:21:02preglowwhy was the 5.5g ata hack reinstated? :/
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22:27:08PaulJampetur: i just upgraded to the firmware on the CFModGuide wikipage...
22:27:21PaulJamIO4:Illinstr :/
22:27:37peturat boot? you too?
22:28:06peturso this isn't related to my 80GB disk at all :(
22:28:15PaulJamyes, propably because i have a 40 GB hd
22:28:30PaulJamMK4007GAL
22:31:03PaulJamwell, at least the OF still boots. back to the old bootloader.
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22:32:05peturPaulJam: I hope we'll find the time during devcon to fix it...
22:32:06PaulJampetur: i'm not sure if this information helps, but bootloader USB mode works
22:32:33peturyes, more than booting, but not always
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22:32:50petursometimes it will also crash
22:34:15PaulJamwow, it just booted into rockbox after disconnecting USB.
22:36:22peturthere is some subtle race condition somewhere that makes the threading code crash
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22:42:01robin0800Write access for the TWiki Please? RobinWheeler
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22:44:44gevaertsrobin0800: I'll add you. Are you planning to edit something specific ?
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23:00
23:01:05robin0800gevaerts, add a c200 wps in a day or two I hope
23:01:52gevaertsrobin0800: good luck with it :) I've added you, so you should be set.
23:02:41robin0800gevaerts,thanks
23:04:26*bluebrother looks around for the official theme site
23:04:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:04:57*scorche|sh casts a sideward glance at an absent linuxstb
23:06:01bluebrothermaybe a hacking session about that on devcon would be helpful?
23:07:05scorche|shlast i heard linuxstb wasnt planning on being there
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23:07:54 Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!")
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23:14:07amiconnpreglow: Good question - didn't even spot that until you mentioned it :/
23:14:27preglowjhMikeS: comments?
23:15:43pixelmaI believe there were still (or again) problems, some reports in the forums...
23:15:46 Join borges [0] (n=bruges@brln-4d0c2400.pool.mediaWays.net)
23:16:09amiconnThe hack sure doesn't help tracking down those problems...
23:17:27markunrobin0800: one moment
23:17:30markunoops
23:18:01pixelmarobin0800: where do you want to add a c200 wps?
23:18:04stripwaxre- max_phys_sector_size −− that's a 5.5g ipod necessity, not a 5g ipod necessity, is that correct?
23:19:21*preglow vanishes
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23:23:59robin0800pixelma, To the new c200 page in the wps gallery
23:25:08pixelmahow nice, and I held that back because I've been told that the new themes site will make the wiki wps gallery superfluent...
23:25:42scorche|shit will...whenever that site gets done...
23:26:43pixelmayes, and shall a c200 wps page be created in the wiki in the meantime?
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23:26:54scorche|shprobably
23:26:56gevaertsSomeone created it already
23:26:57robin0800pixelma,the page is already there!
23:27:20 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
23:28:23pixelmameh, would have done that over half a year ago :\
23:29:00*scorche|sh wasnt expecting it to take this long
23:29:38robin0800gevaerts,its not very exciting just now there are better ones on the other theme site imho
23:29:49 Nick SUSaiyan` is now known as SUSaiyan (n=SUSaiyan@cc84863-b.zwoll1.ov.home.nl)
23:29:52*scorche|sh grumbles
23:30:41 Quit simonrvn (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:31:21gevaertsrobin0800: hard to say. I would need to see them on my c250. I have some doubts about the readability of some of them
23:31:45*gevaerts still uses rockbox_default on his c250
23:32:07amiconnReadability is a problem with the vast majority of colour target themes imho
23:32:20amiconn(including cabbie v1/2/3)
23:32:20toffe82new movie to replace elephant dream : http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/index.php/big-buck-bunny-movie-files-released/
23:32:24gevaertsYes, but especially on c200
23:36:34*DerPapst likes that movie
23:37:24robin0800amiconn, Iv'e used cabbieV2 icons Only and viewports for all other elements would i be right in thinking the icons can be reusd as loing as author credited?
23:40:26*bluebrother just watched that movie too :)
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23:54:10allelewith the bitmap drawing functions, the image x and y are the top left corner, right?
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