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#rockbox log for 2008-06-16

00:02:09bluebrotherhfsplus: you can install a rockbox build instead of the bootloader (i.e. directly to the bootloader partition). But that makes updating much harder
00:02:34hfsplusbluebrother: so its a better idea to just keep it for ease of updates and such?
00:02:58bluebrotheror, to be more precise: it's a bit more work as you can't use rbutil for that anymore and need to install the main binary to the firmware partition each time using ipodpatcher
00:03:25hfsplusahhh
00:03:30 Quit DerDome ("Leaving.")
00:03:54bluebrotheryou could also build yourself a custom bootloader and remove the OF loading stuff
00:04:11hfsplushmmm yeah
00:04:20bluebrothermight be the nicer way as you still use the standard installation procedure for the build itself
00:04:33 Part LinusN
00:04:48bluebrotherdisabling OF booting check should be a one liner. Or at least similar to one ;-)
00:04:54hfsplusyeah, I shall look into that, it should be easy :)
00:05:25hfsplusbluebrother: thanks
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00:05:50ipodnano1stgenhey
00:06:07ipodnano1stgenive got a problem
00:06:26 Quit ipodnano1stgen (Client Quit)
00:06:52bluebrotherproblem but no patience it seems ...
00:07:03saratogaon the upside we no longer have a problem
00:07:20bluebrotherwe never had one. Only ipodnano1stgen ;-)
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00:22:46 Nick hfsplus is now known as hfsplus|away (n=hfsplus@unaffiliated/hfsplus)
00:27:49amiconnbluebrother: It's also possible to install the rockbox bootloader instead of the OF
00:28:07amiconnThis can be done with ipodpatcher and no other changes
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00:38:58bluebrotheramiconn: you're right −− I even think I did that some time back
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00:43:31 Nick hfsplus|away is now known as hfsplus (n=hfsplus@unaffiliated/hfsplus)
00:46:40hfsplusamiconn: would that make it so I could still easily update rockbox as well as not have the original firmware?
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00:49:18hfsplushmm I found a rockbox ipod 5g bootloader with custom image that won't load the original firmware. It's a bug. lol but that could work for me :D
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00:52:43TheInfamousTimCan anyone help me with my iPod with color display (iPod Photo). It's the 40GB version and I have the latest firmware (1.2.1). It's formatted in Fat32 via windows as normal. The program functions fine, but the colors are all "low resolution" and distored looking.
00:53:00TheInfamousTim*distorted
00:53:57saratogaTheInfamousTim: there was some discussion about this problem a few hours ago, check the logs
00:55:17TheInfamousTimWill do. Thank you. :)
00:55:24hfspluswould using a bootloader compiled in 2006 be bad, or has it not changed significantly?
00:55:58saratogait wouldn't work
00:56:14hfsplusah okay
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00:56:49hfsplusbasically, I'd like to replace the bootloader with just the rockbox firmware and never be able to use the original firmware again
00:57:06hfsplusbut I'm unsure how to specifically do that
00:57:16hfsplusI found one bootload that'll do that, but its from 2006
00:58:17saratogayou'll probably have to edit the bootloader source code in /bootloader to disable the branch into the OF
00:59:00saratogaor at least change it to only activate when you've done some specific thing you know you won't do by accident
00:59:35hfsplusyeah that was suggested earlier, but it was also suggested it was possible to just install only the rockbox loader. hm. I'll probably just wind up editing the source
01:00
01:00:06hfsplusits just if I have the lock on and connect my ipod, the OF boots, and I *know* that'll drive me crazy.
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01:09:01saratogafinally managed to build cegcc
01:09:06saratogawhat a pain in the ass
01:09:10linuxstbhfsplus: The alternative is worse - booting an ipod into Rockbox with the hold switch on will reset your settings.
01:09:21hfspluso_O
01:09:28hfsplusahh.... yeah thatd suck
01:11:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:13:49linuxstbBut to do it, download ipodpatcher and the bootloader for your ipod from here - http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/ - and type "ipodpatcher -wf bootloader-ipodxxx.ipod". That replaces the Apple firmware with the Rockbox bootloader.
01:16:30hfsplusallright. thanks for the info. I just need to decide if I want to risk wiping my settings, I suppose. hehe
01:16:54TheInfamousTimAlright, so, I'm a little confused. I found this comment. "Speaking of which, r17696 works." I tried to download that file, but I apologize, I don't understand what I'm supposed to do with it.
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01:19:52linuxstbTheInfamousTim: Exactly what file did you download?
01:20:40TheInfamousTimWhen it was downloaded it appeared as "list.c"
01:21:09saratogayou want rockbox revision 17696
01:21:33saratogait sounds like you went and downloaded a piece of the source code, not the actual binary
01:22:29TheInfamousTimWhoops. Sorry. Lemme try that again.
01:23:07hfsplusWhy does everyone treat me like I'm insane for removing OS X and installing Linux? gah
01:23:31hfsplusack wrong chan.
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01:52:20TheInfamousTimI installed Rockbox v.17696 and windows is telling me I need to format the ipod to work with windows. Is this normal? I'd hate to format and have to put all the music back on, but I'll do it if it's the only way.
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01:58:14krazykitTheInfamousTim, you need to reboot to the OF or disk mode, instructions for which are in the manual
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02:00:58LambdaCalculus37amiconn: Are you still here?
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02:05:20tinto098i need help
02:05:24TheInfamousTimPhew. Thank you, krazykit. I had it in disk mode and it kept disconnecting/reconnecting. I turned it all the way off this time and rebooted and put it into disk mode and it worked.
02:05:41LambdaCalculus37amiconn: For the record, I just found where the color issues start on my 4G iPod... right at r17715, when you committed the LCD code from iPL.
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02:06:31tinto098my rock box wont play music
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02:07:16*LambdaCalculus37 will catch amiconn later to speak to him
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02:17:40darkslategreyhey i have a bunch of roms and wads and stuff i added to rockbox
02:18:07darkslategreyand my question is, when i update will it overwrite those files and if so how can i prevent this
02:18:13darkslategreyshort of offloading the files and reloading them
02:18:42krazykitrockbox only overwrites its own files, nothing else
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02:21:22darkslategreyokay thanks
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02:28:57tapiocapuddingokay i had a quick afterthought after i left
02:29:33tapiocapuddingby "it's own files" do you mean any default system files, like the actual firmware, plugins, codecs and so on, or everything in the .rockbox directory
02:29:49tapiocapuddingif the person who previously answered my question left
02:30:04tapiocapuddingmy original question was whether or not updating with the rockbox utility
02:30:18tapiocapuddingwould overwrite any roms and wads i had on the ipod
02:31:02tapiocapuddingnvm i gotta go, i'll find out the hard way
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02:42:20JdGordonarg, stupid sim crashed last night, I used xkill to close it but it apparently didnt get the whole process, didnt realise why the cpu fan was so noisy untill I opened top and rockboxui is there at 100% cpu for the last 12 hours :(
02:43:09JdGordon7815 jonno 20 0 185m 14m 3220 S 100 0.7 736:04.07 rockboxui
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02:44:40toffe82saratoga: I don't know if this can help but you can have a look at this for the windows CE build : http://www.christian-heffner.de/index.php?page=news&lang=en
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03:11:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:16:39jhMikeStoffe82: I saw your message about the board. Thanks.
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03:30:55JdGordonscorche: HAVE_VOICE?
03:33:24scorcheJdGordon: well, it would essentially replace the PLAYBACK_VOICE tests and just be all voice code
03:33:48JdGordonwhats the point? cut down bin size?
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03:34:52scorchethat could be one such use...some people like removing certain things as well....i think it may have been pondlife's idea originally and he did PLAYBACK_VOICE before too
03:35:00scorchelike i siad...it would just be an extension of that
03:35:06scorche09:35:34pondlifeI added PLAYBACK_VOICE to try and help modularise playback.c....
03:35:34JdGordonah, if its to try and get more sense into playback.c then I'm all for it :)
03:35:57scorchei wont use it for that, but others might
03:36:11scorcheHAVE_TAGCACHE is used for lots of other reasons as well now
03:36:40JdGordonalot?
03:36:49JdGordonbah... lots?
03:36:58scorcheapparently
03:37:19JdGordonI can tihnk of 2 reasons... hardly lots :p
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07:28:30linuxstbamiconn: I think I've found the ipod Photo issue - looking at the "hotdog" library in IPL, the data is byte-swapped for lcd_type==0 when updating the LCD. The kernel driver doesn't do that.
07:29:15linuxstbAnd your commit of the IPL code made all type 0 LCDs behave that way...
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07:51:35amiconnlinuxstb: Hmm. Then it would probably make sense to try and decipher what these bytes do.
07:51:48amiconnPerhaps we can find out how to set the opposite byte order
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07:52:54*amiconn doesn't understand why ipl doesn't just have one, proper lcd driver in the kernel
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08:07:57*amiconn would really like to have access to such an ipod photo
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08:21:02amiconnHmm. My conclusion is that ipl is backward
08:21:30amiconnThe colour issue in ipl occured with the apple firmware update 1.1
08:22:17amiconn...and the driver in ipl byte-swaps for lcd type 0. The code they added for fixing the colour issue on type 0 with firmware 1.1 restores the old behaviour that requires byte swapping
08:22:43amiconnIiuc that means apple switched byte order for type 0 in 1.1 to bring it in line with lcd type 1
08:23:04amiconnHence, 1.1 should have the correct lcd type 0 init sequence for us
08:23:15linuxstbI'm wondering if it's just simple byte-swapping, or if the LCD is being set to BGR mode (in which case the IPL hotdog driver will be wrong, but maybe no-one has noticed...)
08:24:50amiconnHence my wish to have access to such a thing...
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08:27:56amiconnI would expect that the forum user could fix his issue with 2 steps. (1) We need to revert that fix from ipl. (2) He needs to upgrade his OF to 1.1, then reinstall rockbox
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08:31:38amiconnIt would be good to have a ROM dump from both before and the OF upgrade
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08:52:55linuxstbamiconn: At least for now, I hope the user doesn't upgrade his OF... Although v1.0 should be available somewhere on the web for other users to install if we need testers.
08:54:03amiconnA ROM dump from before and after the upgrade should be enough to track down the inits imho
08:54:29linuxstbWe can extract the bootloader from a firmware upgrade image if we can find one.
08:55:00amiconnFor v 1.0 ?
08:55:26linuxstbYes, if we can find that image...
08:58:18linuxstbHmm, seems ipodwizard.net is unavailable - they have an archive of old ipod firmware updaters...
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10:15:43wpyhI think the database needs a serious reworking
10:15:48wpyhsometimes it can't find songs
10:15:52JdGordongo for it :D
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10:16:06wpyhtoo much on my todo list and I'm still having exams :p
10:16:15wpyhtomorrow −− reaction engineering
10:16:26wpyhyeah, and sometimes it will find only old files
10:16:45wpyhI added some files and updated the database, but none of the new files appear
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10:17:21linuxstbEven after a (clean) reboot?
10:17:51wpyhI think so... I'm not sure actually, what is a clean reboot?
10:18:00wpyhis it holding play to shut down and then boot again?
10:18:03GodEateryes
10:18:04wpyhor is it the emergency reboot?
10:18:12GodEaterno, not the emergency reboot
10:18:20wpyhok, I always do that (shut down, then reboot)
10:18:34*GodEater is glad he doesn't use the database
10:18:41wpyhand sometimes I re-initialize the database, then shut down, then reboot
10:18:57wpyhI watch the database being committed, then in the end I only see some of the files, not all
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10:21:32linuxstbIs it always the same files? Do you get some files shown as "untagged" ?
10:21:58wpyhseems like it only affects new files
10:22:17wpyhsometimes after initializing, rebooting, initializing again, then reboot again, the songs show up
10:22:24wpyhand yes, I do get some <untagged> files
10:23:09GodEaterwhat do you use to tag them with ? And what sort of files are they ?
10:23:26linuxstbAnd what sort of tags?
10:23:32wpyhmp3 files, and please don't ask me how I tagged them ')
10:23:33wpyh;)
10:23:41wpyh(I don't mind the tags being gone)
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10:24:05GodEaterwell if you don't tell us how you tagged them, we can't possibly know what might have gone wrong...
10:24:28linuxstbOr at least what kind of tags you're using...
10:24:40linuxstb(id3v1, id3v2, APE, ...)
10:25:05wpyhare you thinking that the tag parser might have choked on the tags and then skipped the rest of the tags?
10:26:01*linuxstb doesn't have enough information to think yet
10:26:57GodEatergist of info in PM from wpyh : He hasn't tagged the files at all, and hasn't investigated what tags they might have already. So this is a pointless discussion.
10:27:26wpyhnot so pointless, I think
10:27:39peturdatabase uses tags...
10:27:39GodEaterof course it's pointless - we have no info from you to go on
10:27:40wpyhbecause now what I've done is
10:28:18wpyh1) put some new files 2) reinitialize db 3) reboot, see only 22 songs 4) reinitialize db 5) reboot, see 28 songs
10:28:40wpyhpreviously I have 22 songs, before I put the new files, and I put 8 more
10:29:04GodEaterand? How does this help us track down the problem ?
10:29:15wpyhI don't mind the <untagged> entries, but the problem is, after I initialize the db a second time, it finds all the files
10:29:18wpyhuh..
10:29:26wpyhI'll try de-tagging the files and see ;)
10:29:35linuxstb22 + 8 is 30...
10:29:37GodEater22 + 8 does not = 28
10:29:49wpyhuh, I mean 6
10:29:50wpyh:p
10:30:01*wpyh is stupid today because of the exam tomorrow
10:30:34linuxstbwpyh: More useful would be to keep your files as they are, and track down the bug...
10:31:04wpyhlinuxstb: I keep an archive of those files, so it should be ok
10:31:18linuxstbPeople often report these kinds of problems, but then "fix" it by removing/changing tags, rather than finding the real cause.
10:31:37wpyhhm... may be a problem with tags, then
10:31:41wpyhI'll do a control experiment
10:31:43wpyh:D
10:32:09linuxstbAnother possible cause is a corrupt filesystem...
10:32:41wpyhum... maybe, because fsck.vfat tells me I have a wrong free cluster count
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10:38:22wpyhok, now I've removed all the music from the ipod
10:38:31wpyhthen I reinitialized the db
10:38:56wpyhwhen I checked it (by pressing SELECT on Database in the main menu), it says "Building database ... 402 found"
10:39:05wpyhthat was 5 minutes ago
10:39:10wpyhnow it still says the same thing
10:39:16wpyhany ideas?
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10:41:47pixelmayes, the database doesn't cope with no music files at all
10:41:59wpyhuh... I didn't know this
10:42:07wpyhis this a known bug or a known WONTFIX?
10:43:02pixelmaIMO that's a bug but only some know that, I really need to get around opening a bug report for it (or in case you want to do that... ;) )
10:43:16wpyhwell, let's open one
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10:43:37pixelmaat least I checked last week and didn't find a related task
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10:45:34pixelmathe "xxx" found was a bit higher than what the "stats" plugin told me about the files (altogether) currently present on the target I tested with
10:45:44pixelmawhen I tested last week
10:47:33wpyhwell, the db found 402 tracks, but the stats plugin says 363 files and 38 dirs (363+38=401, so maybe the other one added was the root?)
10:48:19wpyhsorry, it didn't say tracks but just "402 found"
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10:53:10pixelmathat calculation works for me too (628 files, 38 directories = "666", database says "667 found" - got a few text files, additional WPSs, stuff like that)
10:54:03wpyhso maybe the database is counting files and dirs in total?
10:58:27wpyhOK, I've added task 9093 for that
10:58:38wpyh(the database hangs if no music file found)
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11:01:22pixelmaI don't think it's important what it counts, and thanks :)
11:01:53wpyhyou're welcome :)
11:02:15wpyhmaybe we can enhance it by saying "xxx files and yyy directories found"
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11:15:02pixelmaI'd want it to say "No music files found, aborting" or some such and then abort the process alone
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11:18:18Slasheripixelma: hmm, i really need to fix that :) and maybe change it to count music files only (counting files and directories was initially used because if dircache is enabled, we could display some sort of progress information in percents)
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11:18:51wpyhpixelma: yes, that's what should happen if the database initialization doesn't find any music files in the end
11:19:18wpyhwell, we can do it like "xxx files (zzz music files) and yyy directories found"
11:19:24pixelmaSlasheri: ah good, now there's a bug report for it... ;)
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11:33:30wpyhAlso, when we initialize the database, it would be better if it's done in the foreground
11:36:37Slasheriwpyh: it is done in background (you can close the info screen), and doing init from db submenu, it always goes into background
11:36:59wpyhyes, it's currently done in the background
11:37:11wpyhwhat I'm suggesting is, move it to the foreground
11:37:27wpyhAnd add a progress bar :)
11:37:52Slasheriups
11:38:21Slasherihmm, going to the db browser doesn't bring it to foreground?
11:38:32wpyhwell, it does
11:38:45wpyhonly the info box part though
11:38:53wpyhI mean the message box part
11:39:04wpyhwhat I'd like is a full screen progress bar
11:39:20wpyhso the user waits until it finishes
11:40:32Slasheria real progress bar counting only music files is practically impossible to do because of technical limitations
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11:41:20wpyhum... technical limitations?
11:41:38JdGordonmaybe just use the "working" progress bar from the delete/copy folder screens?
11:42:09Slasheriwpyh: you would have to probe and scan all files on the disk before displaying the progress bar, and that would just slowdown the progress
11:42:31BigBambiIf it doesn't find any music files, it should just say, "No music files found" or something like that IMO.
11:42:31Slasheribut if dircache is initialized, it is possible to display the progress somewhat accurately (debug screen does that atm)
11:42:47pixelmaJdGordon: wasn't that the one you disabled?
11:43:03wpyhwe can get the total size of files on disk, then as we read each file, we mark that size as "scanned"
11:43:06wpyhhow about that?
11:43:17BigBambiwpyh: And an enforced foreground scan would be very annoying
11:43:18pixelmaand btw. I don't want a forced foreground scan
11:43:30JdGordonpixelma: I dont remember disabling it...
11:43:43wpyhwe can make the foreground scan optional :)
11:43:53pixelmahooray
11:43:53BigBambinot another pojntless option
11:44:03wpyhnot pointless...
11:44:12BigBambiJust do it as now - background, try to go into database menu and it shows you progress
11:44:38BigBambiwpyh: pretty pointless as it can be done another, better way (IMO)
11:44:43Slasheriwpyh: and you shouldn't have to reinitialize the db normally, ever
11:44:52Slasheriwpyh: just enable load to ram and autoupdate
11:45:00wpyhI think we can make this an option in the database, so it wont clutter up the settings
11:45:10BigBambiIt wouls still clutter settings
11:45:21BigBambiNo matter where you put it
11:45:38pixelmaJdGordon: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=17654 ?
11:45:39wpyhis there a better way to do this, without setting an option?
11:45:48BigBambiBigBambiJust do it as now - background, try to go into database menu and it shows you progress
11:45:55wpyhBigBambi: it would be localized to the database I think
11:45:58JdGordonwpyh: reading the filesize isnt quick...
11:46:40BigBambiwpyh: It would still appear in the menu system, just under the database sub menu
11:46:40wpyhSlasheri: that didn't work in my case, but maybe that's a separate bug
11:47:14Slasheriwpyh: what was the issue? that has never in a long time failed for me on my H140
11:47:18wpyhBigBambi: yeah, found it now... at least it won't clutter up the rest of the system
11:47:22wpyh:p
11:47:30wpyhSlasheri: it doesn't find new music files I added
11:47:36Slasheriwpyh: the correct way is not the re-initialize the db
11:48:03Slasheriwpyh: and you tried the update or had autoupdate enabled, and rebooted once/twice after adding files?
11:48:11JdGordonSlasheri: any chance you'll have some time to maybe split tagcache.c up into smaller managable parts sometime?
11:48:24SlasheriJdGordon: maybe, sometime :)
11:48:27wpyhSlasheri: after adding files the ipod automatically reboots
11:48:33BigBambiwpyh: I still don't get what you mean - it is in the menu, it cannot help but be in the menu?
11:48:49Slasheriwpyh: ok, then you have to wait until disk shuts of and reboot again
11:49:08wpyhBigBambi: I mean, I found the database settings menu now −− I didn't realize it's inside the main settings menu
11:49:15Slasheriwpyh: then the files should appear (unless you had dircache and/or db in ram enabled, a reboot might not be needed at all)
11:49:31wpyhSlasheri: that's not intuitive
11:49:41*BigBambi suggests looking how it is currently done before suggesting changes
11:49:42Slasheriwhat do you mean?
11:50:23wpyhSlasheri: I mean that if I have to reboot again after adding files, that's not intuitive...
11:50:54BigBambiIt is if it tells you to
11:50:55wpyhBigBambi: are you talking about the database foreground progress option, or the other one? we have a few threads here.. :P
11:50:58Slasheriwpyh: well, there isn't much to do for that because of the rockbox design of not doing dynamic memory allocations
11:51:05BigBambiwpyh: In general
11:51:14Slasheriwpyh: just enabled dircache and db in ram and please try again
11:51:19wpyhthanks for the advice though
11:51:40wpyhok
11:52:23Slasheriif you are mainly using the db, you should have at least db loaded in ram and autoupdate enabled
11:52:52Slasheriand dircache would be prefered too
11:53:29wpyhok..
11:58:46ZbubenHi, I'm looking for a method/tool/anything that can perform the usb-boot mode (like tcctool does for windows) for linux... I didn't find anything like this in manuals and faqs (maybe I'm not good for docs :$). Any Idea ?
11:59:48gevaerts_tcctool ?
11:59:54B4gdertcctool is for linux (too)
12:00
12:00:20ZbubenB4gder: oh ? I did'nt find any binary or source for it ?
12:00:31B4gderthe source is in the rockbox svn
12:00:57B4gderhttp://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/utils/tcctool/
12:01:10Zbubenok, I gonna download this ! thanks a lot !
12:01:29Zbuben( wonderful ! )
12:03:55 Quit SirFunk (Connection timed out)
12:07:47Zbubencool, I can boot in usb mode :) that works. thanks.
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12:11:35linuxstbZbuben: Out of curiousity, where did you find a Windows binary, but no source? That's infringing tcctool's license.
12:13:36Zbubenlinuxstb: on the rockbox's web server, I think that's not a problem ;)
12:14:16linuxstbWhereabouts?
12:14:26Zbubenin utils directory
12:14:34Zbubenhttp://download.rockbox.org/utils/tcctool/
12:15:10*linuxstb downloads the zip and realises he's infringing the GPL...
12:15:18linuxstbHow did you find that file?
12:15:20wpyhlinuxstb: why?
12:15:36linuxstbwpyh: I'm not offering the source code, or including a copy of the GPL
12:15:59wpyhlinuxstb: google gives me this: http://haxx.rockbox.org/utils/tcctool/
12:16:12*gevaerts_ points out that the source is also on http://download.rockbox.org/ somewhere, so it comes down to 'how near should the source be'
12:16:26Zbubenhmm I don't remember where I found this link :$
12:16:32gevaerts_The copy of the GPL is different of course
12:16:43wpyhah, I always forgot the "offer a copy of the GPL part"
12:16:45gevaerts_s/is different/is a different issue/
12:16:47*Zbuben seeks in his browser's history
12:16:47*linuxstb writes himself a stern email and promises to fix it
12:18:24Zbubenhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CowonIaudio7Info <−− I have found the tcctool's name here and then .. google I think.
12:19:37 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
12:19:40linuxstbZbuben: OK, thanks.
12:20:21linuxstbZbuben: Are you planning on working on a Rockbox port, or do you need tcctool to try and recover a device?
12:21:39ZbubenMy device works perfectly (maybe not for a long time :$)
12:21:52ZbubenI plan to watch if I can understand something ..
12:22:03Zbubenand if I can, maybe work on a port
12:22:07linuxstbWhich device?
12:22:13Zbubencowon iaudio7
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12:23:32linuxstbOK. There is some very early work on an iaudio 6/7 port in SVN, but it doesn't do anything interesting. What's needed is someone to continue disassembling the original firmware and write an LCD driver...
12:24:17ZbubenI think I'am not skilled for this type of work :$, I'll give a try
12:24:43Zbuben(If you find my english strange, maybe this is because I'm french :$)
12:25:10linuxstbYour English is less strange than many native English speakers that come here...
12:25:37ZbubenO_o, amazing.
12:25:40*Zbuben is proud !
12:26:01*gevaerts_ points out that 'speakers' might be overestimating some of them
12:26:24 Nick gevaerts_ is now known as gevaerts (n=fg@195-144-092-143.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be)
12:26:33*BigBambi is saddened by the English of a lot of native speakers
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12:33:54*JdGordon fail english? thats unpossiple
12:34:12JdGordonis the h300/h100 and the x5/m5 the only targets with a lcd remote?
12:34:58 Quit faemir ("quit.")
12:35:34JdGordonhmm... how is the m3 remote handled? does its remote have buttons?
12:38:02pixelmasure - all Iaudio targets have the same remote but IIRC it's handled as main display on the M3
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12:38:43JdGordondoes the remote buttons flip correctly if the display is flipped?
12:39:09*JdGordon for some reason got the urge to fix a 2 year old request :p
12:39:18*Zbuben disassembled the 1.17 firmware... what a big mess O_o
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12:40:02pixelmaJdGordon: no idea
13:00
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13:11:31B4gderhttp://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox/dce.html
13:12:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:13:41linuxstbB4gder: Now a rockbox plugin...
13:15:57B4gderit needs to be in the wps!
13:16:28linuxstbA chance for you to display plugin output in the wps then ;)
13:16:43B4gderfinally I got the chance!
13:16:54linuxstbYou have 11 days, 4hrs left...
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13:47:47*linuxstb notices the flyspray admin and politely points Zagor to this nice blank page - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/
13:48:18Zagoryikes. has it been like that for long?
13:48:28linuxstbA while I think...
13:48:39B4gderZagor: since linux updated php I think
13:49:25*wpyh wonders why no one responded when he asked about it a few days ago
13:49:56*wpyh thinks it must be because he didn't know the right person to talk to
13:50:11B4gders/linux/linus/
13:52:21Zagorwpyh: or simply noone was around that knew
13:53:03wpyhyeah, maybe
13:53:18wpyhand I thought it was not a bug so no one responded...
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14:26:04wpyhI've got a small suggestion here
14:26:17wpyhHow about we add "reboot" and "shutdown" to the System menu?
14:26:40*gevaerts hands wpyh a flame-proof suit
14:29:06linuxstbwpyh: There's a patch on flyspray that does exactly that...
14:30:13wpyhthanks, gevaerts
14:30:25*wpyh now has two flame-proof suit from gevaerts!
14:31:15wpyhhm...
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14:31:52wpyhlinuxstb: so the reason it's not included is because it doesn't compile cleanly?
14:32:19GodEaterand a lot of people don't want it
14:33:00linuxstbwpyh: The argument against it is that it clutters up the menu with things you can already do.
14:34:03*wpyh thinks holding down the menu button gives another menu which options can be achieved / set through the main menu
14:34:26wpyhactually my argument for it is that I don't like holding down a button for so long
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14:37:03pixelmabut you would like pressing a button to get to the menu, then pressing another one a few times and then another one again better to achieve the same thing?
14:37:15wpyhyes
14:37:30wpyhthat's the effect I want to achieve
14:37:47wpyhI don't like holding buttons down
14:38:09gevaertsYou could also just set the auto poweroff to something short, and just pause and wait
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14:38:43wpyhI guess I don't like the waiting time
14:38:59wpyheven if it's just a few seconds, as in the case of holding down the play button on the ipod
14:39:31wpyhfor the auto poweroff, well sometimes I just leave it on the table and expect it to be on, so.. that's not an option for me :p
14:40:52GodEateryou're free to to customise your own build then
14:41:09GodEaterbut it's a pretty unpopular feature here, so unlikely to go into svn
14:42:53 Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
14:43:07wpyhbtw, here's another thread for Buschel, saratoga, et. al. who wants to optimize codecs and algorithms: I've tested the ipod video with the CF card, and RB gets 21:30 while the OF gets somewhere between 22:00 and 23:00 (missed the shutdown time)
14:43:35wpyhso there's at most 10% difference between RB and the OF, which most likely is due to the codec
14:43:48gevaertsSame music ?
14:44:10wpyhGodEater: yes, I can do that but I also want it in the official build if possible
14:44:28wpyhGodEater: is there some kind of a compromise that can be achieved?
14:44:33wpyhgevaerts: yes, same music
14:44:53wpyhnot necessarily same order though, but it shouldn't matter much because it's just over an hour IIRC
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14:46:32GodEaterwpyh: I don't see how there can be a compromise, it's either in Rockbox or it's not
14:46:51GodEaterI certainly don't want to see it on any of my DAPS
14:47:51wpyhGodEater: what I mean about the compromise is that we get this feature somewhere, but not in the current shape
14:48:16GodEaterit can't be put anywhere but somewhere in the menus, which are already over crowded with features
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14:48:36gevaertsA plugin ?
14:48:48pixelmayes, another option to turn the feature on? ;o
14:48:48*gevaerts hides
14:48:52linuxstbIn the System menu?
14:48:54GodEaterthe only way I can see round *that* is to have customisable menus, which is another NODO as far as most devs / support people are
14:48:58GodEater+concerned
14:49:03wpyhIMO we can try to unclutter the menus, and then add this somewhere in the menu
14:49:28wpyhgevaerts: come out ;) I think a plugin is OK (if technically feasible) but would be better in the menu
14:49:32*GodEater votes firmly for "no thanks"
14:49:37wpyhI like it n the system menu
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14:49:50wpyhs/ n / in
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14:50:36pixelmait already is in one of the target's menu (the Archos Player) because you can't shut it down gracefully in another way but I don't want it in a menu
14:50:58pixelmaon other targets, of course
14:51:45wpyhwell, for example we can move the sleep timer from the System menu to the Settings menu, then put Shutdown in its place
14:51:59GodEaterNo thanks
14:52:11pixelmaand I also prefer holding a button for a bit longer than having to navigate through the menus and/or button combos (which aren't even possible everywhere)
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14:52:49wpyhpixelma: navigating through the menus is always possible everywhere, I think
14:52:54GodEaterwpyh: you're far from the first person to want this, I suspect you also won't be the last - but you're not going to change our minds.
14:53:06pixelmawpyh: I meant button combos (in general)
14:53:38wpyhGodEater: that's why I'm looking for a compromise ;)
14:53:47*gevaerts hopes that wpyh appreciates his new flame-proof suit ;)
14:53:48wpyhpixelma: oh, ok..
14:54:00*wpyh doesn't feel hot right now
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14:54:36GodEaterthere *isn't* a compromise - we don't want it in the menus anywhere
14:55:11wpyhbecause it's cluttered enough?
14:56:05GodEaternot just that, it's a pain in the arse to have to navigate the menus to turn off your system
14:56:37wpyhI do understand the cluttered argument
14:56:43zarraza_is_backcan someone learn me how to get paypal acc and paswords?
14:57:01*GodEater sits down to watch the kick
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14:57:27wpyhBut if you say it's a pain in the arse to have to navigate the menus to turn off the system, then you can ignore that menu item
14:58:08GodEaterwpyh: you're wasting your time, I'm not going to be convinced
14:58:11wpyhIt just won't bother you
14:58:38wpyhWell, I do understand that some people have opinions
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14:59:26wpyhAnd sometimes it can be hard to change one's opinion, even with a compromise
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14:59:48wpyhBut I'm also seeking others' opinions here :)
14:59:50linuxstbGodEater: What harm would those option do in the "system" menu?
15:00
15:00:41GodEateroption creep for something that we don't need, more changes to the manual, more queries from users getting confused about what they do that's different to the current way of powering off
15:01:01GodEaterbinsize creep
15:01:20GodEaterI'm sure I can think of more
15:01:43wpyhGodEater: I see that some of your concerns are valid, though some can be addressed
15:02:35pixelmalinuxstb: and the Player would have it twice then? Or moved into a submenu which is harder to reach?
15:03:02wpyhThe option creep: Yes, I can understand that, seeing how the Sound Settings menu is littered with Channel Configuration, Stereo width, Crossfeed...
15:03:26wpyhThe changes to the manual: I will volunteer to implement the changes so you guys can just sit back and relax :)
15:03:38linuxstbpixelma: We could leave it where it is for the Player... I don't really care about this feature, but wouldn't object to it going in the system menu.
15:03:59wpyhQueries from users getting confused: if they ask it, then the manual is not written well enough, let me edit it some more
15:04:11GodEaterwpyh: you assume that users have read the manual
15:04:15GodEaterthey often haven't
15:04:34*wpyh hasn't read the manual in its entirety either
15:04:41GodEaterI rest my case then
15:04:55*gevaerts only tries to read the manual on days that it's actually broken
15:05:05wpyhI guess it's similar to Windows
15:05:07linuxstbGodEater: Which is an argument for features being accessible via both the menus and button combinations though
15:05:20wpyhalthough I almost don't use windows
15:05:55wpyhtwo ways to turn off the computer: 1. Start Menu -> Shutdown 2. Press the power button on the casing
15:06:03GodEaterin which case shouldn't dual booting also be an option ?
15:07:00LambdaCalculus37I think that it should be.
15:07:41pixelmawhy? Do you also want a boot menu?
15:07:44*GodEater gapes at LambdaCalculus37
15:08:06wpyhOn the topic of dual booting: for us passionate RB users, a dual boot option is not necessary. But for most users trying out RB, it's needed −− they are still attached to the OF
15:08:08 Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection)
15:08:23*LambdaCalculus37 just realized that what he mentioned was for another channel... :P
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15:08:37wpyhIn case I offend anyone −− I'm trying to be pragmatic, not idealist
15:08:44LambdaCalculus37GodEater: Sorry. Gotta stop flicking back and forth between channels so much. ;)
15:09:27linuxstbGodEater: "Start original firmware" could be an option under System...
15:10:08*pixelma can hear the creeping
15:10:25wpyhlinuxstb: do you mean that menu item would reboot the device and boot into the OF?
15:10:44linuxstbYes
15:10:49*linuxstb requests a suit from gevaerts
15:10:57LambdaCalculus37Can't RoLo on the Archos devices already boot an OF, or am I mistaken?
15:11:18linuxstbYes, but not many devices can rolo the OF.
15:11:21amiconn"Start original firmware" shouldn't be an option in a rockbox menu
15:11:25pixelmait can but it's not in a menu
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15:11:30wpyhlinuxstb: that would be a good idea
15:11:49*gevaerts thinks that linuxstb has been here long enough to know in advance when he will need a suit ;)
15:11:53*LambdaCalculus37 can hear the sound of feature creep drumming up beside him
15:12:07*JdGordon doubts that
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15:12:25JdGordonno new features have been added in *ages*
15:12:35gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: do you use DSP on that sound ?
15:12:52wpyhJdGordon: so you mean all the different options were added long ago?
15:12:58linuxstbJdGordon: That's not true - we now have an md5 checker ;)
15:12:58LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: I use a wide stereo width on that sound. :)
15:13:06LambdaCalculus37And pegbox. :)
15:13:20JdGordonlinuxstb: and before that?
15:13:31*JdGordon for one likes feature "creep"
15:13:54*gevaerts thinks that plugins don't count, or at least count differently
15:13:58*amiconn thinks that 'start OF' would be a particularly bad feature
15:14:12*JdGordon agrees with both the above 2 statements
15:14:23amiconnBesides that it's not reliably doable
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15:14:42JdGordonwhy isnt it doable?
15:14:49 Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection)
15:14:52wpyhWell I guess there are two problems here: 1. menu cluttering, which needs to be addressed, and 2. feature creep
15:15:00wpyhand I think they are different problems
15:15:06wpyhamiconn: yeah, why not?
15:15:09linuxstbJdGordon: You would have to confirm the OF is available in whatever location the bootloader looks for it.
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15:15:23amiconnJdGordon: Not *reliably* doable. One reason is e.g. if there is no OF (user removed it)
15:15:38JdGordonarg, misread reliably as really
15:15:43*JdGordon is tipsy
15:15:50LambdaCalculus37Also the devices that don't dual boot to begin with (e.g. X5, Gigabeat F)
15:16:03linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: Then they would obviously not have that option...
15:16:08wpyhamiconn: if the user removes the OF then tries to start the OF from within RB, then he/she is stupid IMO
15:16:25JdGordonI wouldnt object to the shutdown in menu going in, but can see it being a bitpointess..
15:16:26pixelmaJdGordon: do you also like booting times like the sansa OF (assuming it's as bad on the e200 as it is on the c200?
15:16:40gevaertsAnother reason is that we leave the hardware in a state that the OF may not expect
15:16:53JdGordonpixelma: ?
15:17:10wpyhgevarets: you mean by jumping to the start of the OF?
15:17:42wpyhI think we may be able to get with resetting all registers and then jumping to that code
15:17:45pixelmaJdGordon: more and more features could add up (though I don't know how Sandisk managed this long booting times)
15:17:57wpyhor just set a bit in the BL that gets reset upon the next boot
15:18:43LambdaCalculus37pixelma: I agree. The Sansa OF boot times are too damn long.
15:19:03*gevaerts also doesn't see why we should make it that easy to get to the OF. The goal is to be as good or better than the OF for all features...
15:19:20JdGordonpixelma: bot time depends on the init seqence... you can have a million features with no init time and it will be just as fast as 3 features with big init times...
15:19:32pixelmaJdGordon: and another thing - are you going to document features you add? :\
15:19:40wpyhgevaerts: being better than the OF doesn't necessarily mean the user won't like the OF more. especially new users
15:19:41JdGordondircache and tagcache are the big ones.. and both are done in the background.. so no, start times is not an issue
15:19:49JdGordonpixelma: would you really like me to? :D
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15:21:11gevaertswpyh: does that mean that we should encourage them to stay in the OF ?
15:21:33pixelmaJdGordon: well better than nothing and the wiki pages you wrote if found some time weren't that bad...
15:21:47wpyhNo. rather, that means we give them an easy way to use the OF in case they don't like RB
15:21:55wpyhNot everyone likes RB, you know
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15:22:15JdGordonwpyh: well they should!
15:22:35wpyhJdGordon: ideally, they should. in reality, they don't always
15:22:48*LambdaCalculus37 shows wpyh the cricket bat we like to use on Rockbox haters :)
15:23:25pixelmawpyh: I think uninstalling is easy, or? ;)
15:23:25*wpyh likes it but thinks it should be used sparingly ;)
15:23:39wpyhlet me be a bit theoretical here...
15:24:12wpyhthe current situation: some users would say "you can install RB, but if you don't like it you have to uninstall it first to easily boot the OF"
15:24:37wpyhwell, they can certainly also say "if you install RB and don't like it, it's easy to uninstall it and get the OF back"
15:24:46wpyhso there are two likely responses from users
15:25:07LambdaCalculus37wpyh: And in certain cases, it's dead easy to remove. For example, on the iPods, simply uninstalling the bootloader will prevent Rockbox from booting.
15:25:17wpyhbut if we add that option, then the users would say "you can install RB, and if you want to switch back to the OF you can always do so from a menu item"
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15:25:41LambdaCalculus37And most devices already have a dual boot feature.
15:26:00amiconnwpyh: Really, rockbox should be graceful when a user tries stupid things. It should definitely not crash. Besides The user trying to boot the OF might not be the same one who removed the OF from the device
15:26:48*wpyh thinks amiconn has a point
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15:36:35linuxstbamiconn: Why would Rockbox crash?
15:37:15wpyhlinuxstb: because it jumps to a nonexistent location, or because we left the hardware in a weird state (to the OF)?
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15:38:17linuxstbwpyh: If the OF fails to start, then the feature is buggy and wouldn't be enabled on that target. But all dual-booting targets can start the OF.
15:38:29linuxstbEither with "rolo", or via the bootloader.
15:38:48linuxstbAnd both do sanity checks and fail cleanly.
15:39:44*linuxstb isn't interested in this feature enough to actually implement it though...
15:40:09wpyhlinuxstb: sorry, I mean a nonexistent OF, rather than a nonexisten location...
15:40:28wpyhI didn't know the BL fails gracefully though
15:40:30linuxstbIf it doesn't exist, Rockbox wouldn't try to use it.
15:41:17wpyhwell, if we can address these possibilities, then I think that menu item is good to have
15:41:25wpyheven if it's just from a PR point of view
15:42:07gevaertsI'd rather have a more user-friendly bootloader
15:42:41linuxstbgevaerts: That's another reason I would like a menu option to start the OF - so we can keep the bootloader as it is...
15:42:49wpyhwell, I don't oppose that suggestion as well
15:43:07wpyhalthough it seems pretty clear that my vote either doesn't count −− or doesn't get counted
15:43:08wpyh:p
15:43:28gevaertslinuxstb: my reasoning is that adding things to the bootloader doesn't bloat the main binary. Of course there are other issues as well then
15:43:45linuxstbgevaerts: How would you make the bootloader friendlier, without slowing it down?
15:44:12gevaertslinuxstb: that's "other issues" ;)
15:45:12JdGordonspeaking of which.... does anyone think it would be good if the bootloader could pass its version to rockbox? and if so... can somsone do it at the devcon to coincide with the fresh round of bootloader builds?
15:45:38*amiconn deems the rockbox bootloader a ton more user friendly than stuff like loader 2
15:46:14amiconnWhy bother the user with a menu? Quick boot has absolute priority imo. Booting something else than rockbox is a rare condition.
15:46:39linuxstbamiconn: Personally, I agree. But many users request a boot menu...
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15:47:12wpyhand that boot menu or any other ability to easily boot the OF will be good for PR
15:47:13gevaertsI agree as well. I must admit that I didn't think of boot time when I proposed this
15:47:21linuxstbAnd it's not nice to say to people "use loader2 but don't dare ask us how".
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15:47:48Toasthaiya
15:48:05gevaertswpyh: usability should win over PR any time
15:48:33Toasthow do i make my album art show with themes?
15:48:36wpyhI think it won't hurt usability if we implement it correctly
15:48:36LambdaCalculus37wpyh: PR is the least of it.
15:48:49Toastim using Slant theme, and may art is all named ''folder''
15:49:05LambdaCalculus37Toast: This page has album art information: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AlbumArt
15:49:35Toastthanks
15:49:45*LambdaCalculus37 does his Public Service Announcment
15:49:55LambdaCalculus37Remember kids, reading is fundamental!
15:50:09LambdaCalculus37:)
15:50:20*LambdaCalculus37 is done
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15:51:12Toasttoo bad jpeg album art isnt supported, converting them isnt worth it
15:51:56wpyhToast: jpeg is lossless, IMO
15:52:16LambdaCalculus37wpyh: Wrong. JPEG is lossy.
15:52:28LambdaCalculus37Toast: Well, that's your choice, of course.
15:52:29wpyhuhhhhhhhhhhhh
15:52:35wpyhsorry, I mean jpeg is lossy
15:52:37Toastdoesnt matter, i just like it eyecandy anyway, can live without it
15:52:42wpyhI'm off-form today
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16:24:59pikkoyoulhi... i have a problem
16:25:06pikkoyouli am using rockbox on an ipod nano
16:25:11pikkoyoulit works quite well
16:25:31pikkoyoulbut i have a problem that whenever i delete files, they are not deleted from the database
16:25:39pikkoyouli tried initialise now and update now
16:25:47pikkoyoulnothing happens
16:27:46markunpikkoyoul: you could try to delete the database files from the .rockbox folder and then rebuild it
16:28:57pikkoyouli don?t see any rockbox folder (using macosx)
16:29:26linuxstbIt's ".rockbox" (with a leading dot), meaning Mac OS X will treat it as hidden and not show it by default.
16:30:54pikkoyoulhow can i make it visible
16:30:57linuxstbBut shouldn't "initialise now" delete the existing database and build a new one?
16:31:12linuxstbi.e. it should do what you want.
16:31:31markunlinuxstb: yes, sounds like a bug if it doesn't work anyway
16:32:03pikkoyoulit says updating in background
16:32:07pikkoyoulhow long does it take
16:32:29GodEaterenter : "defaults write com.apple.finder AppleShowAllFiles TRUE" in a terminal window in OSX
16:32:44GodEaterand then "killall Finder"
16:32:52GodEaterthis will make all files starting with a "." visible
16:34:21linuxstbpikkoyoul: Depends on how many files you have, but maybe a couple of minutes.
16:34:41pikkoyoulah ok
16:34:44pikkoyoulit is working
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16:34:53pikkoyoulnext time first wait then ask
16:34:57markun:)
16:34:57pikkoyoulthx alot :)
16:35:03markunno problem
16:35:17pikkoyouleverythings a bit crowded...
16:35:36pikkoyouli deleted all itunes files and am now filling the player manually
16:36:20PaulJam_pikkoyoul: what version of rockbox do you use? the bug that required to delete the databasefiles manually should have been fixed a few days ago.
16:38:05pikkoyoulmhm i dunno
16:38:08pikkoyouli used the installer
16:38:13pikkoyoulbut i had to use it with windows
16:38:31pikkoyoulbecause there seems to be a bug in the macosx version because of the build in unzipper
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16:38:35GodEateryou mean you've not updated it recently ?
16:38:40pikkoyoultoday
16:39:00pikkoyouli could install the bootloader via mac
16:39:13pikkoyoulbut for rockbox itself i had to use windows
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16:55:53linuxstbpikkoyoul: Have you tried Rockbox Utility? That should make upgrading very simple.
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18:14:55jac0b|whow do I set the peak meter height in my wps
18:15:14jac0b|wit is thinner than the rb default one
18:17:43linuxstbThe CustomWPS wiki page should describe it.
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18:18:00pixelmathe peakmeter? I believe it's dependent on the font size, or do you mean the progress bar?
18:18:41*linuxstb reads the CustomWPS and sees that the peakmeter height isn't adjustable
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18:20:59jac0b|whow dos the size change. does it automatically change on how big the screen is?
18:21:33linuxstbNo, as pixelma said, it takes the equivalent of one line of text
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18:22:37linuxstbYou can change the width by using a viewport to display it, but the height is the current font height.
18:23:17jac0b|wokay thanks linuxstb
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18:40:21scorche|shdomonoky: how is your student doing?
18:41:03domonokyscorche: its going forward, but i am not fully satisfied..
18:41:15scorche|shdomonoky: ...yes?
18:41:27scorche|shand could you get him to put a wiki page up about his progress?
18:41:39scorche|sh(with periodical updates)
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18:41:41domonokyhe has 3 weeks to prove that he is worth the money :-)
18:41:58domonokyi will prod him again with the wiki..
18:42:21scorche|shwhat is going on?
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18:42:48tapiocapuddinghey is there a way to change the rockbox boot logo?
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18:42:59domonokyhe is working on extracting rockboxs WPS code into a lib, but he hasnt done too much work...
18:43:49domonokytapiocapudding: only by changing code and recompiling rockbox..
18:44:10tapiocapuddingokay thanks
18:44:15*tapiocapudding needs to learn c
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18:45:49scorche|shdomonoky: oh..nevermind about the wiki page thing...i got him confused with LinusN's student
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18:46:51scorche|shalthough i would like to get a general template down for all students so we can more easily see progress
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18:47:43domonokyjeah a template for our students would be nice..
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18:51:06linuxstbdomonoky: You should also encourage him to come here and ask for help, or simply talk about what he's doing...
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18:52:09domonokywill do..
18:52:13*scorche|sh thinks students make it much harder on themselves by not being in here
18:53:25linuxstbdomonoky: Does your student still have upcoming exams, or have they finished now?
18:53:46domonokyi am not sure, will have to ask again..
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18:55:03scorche|shhow have you guys been communicating?...and often?
18:56:26domonokyi talk to him once or twice a week via icq or mail.. i would like contac more often, but it seems not possible for him..
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19:12:11fmlJust for the log (I know that my opinion doesn't matter though): I'm in favour of adding the entry for "Shut down" to the system menu and against adding the entry to start the OF (no matter where).
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19:13:28fmlMy reasoning: the user shoul never get to a "dead end", i.e. a situation where she can't do further via GUI. This is like web pages: there should always be at least one link to go further.
19:16:42linuxstbfml: I don't understand... Are you saying that starting the OF is a dead end?
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19:19:27fmllinuxstb: no, the dead end is when there is no entry for shut down. "Start OF" shouldn't be there IMHO since it's another world, it's not rockbox anymore.
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19:27:40pondlifeJust had a hard lockup when the last track in a playlist ran out of buffered data :/
19:28:37pondlifeTo clarify, the disk was spinning, and the backliight thread was running (i.e. keys would bring it back on), but the UI was not responding to keypresses.
19:28:47Lloreanfml: How is not having a shut down option a dead end?
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19:31:23Lloreanpondlife: I think I've seen a recent report of this in the forum too.
19:31:34pondlifeYes, there's a Flyspray report somewhere
19:32:03pondlifeSeems to be a problem when buffering has to kick in right at the end of a playlist.
19:32:20LloreanHow "right at the end"?
19:32:22pondlifeProbably a deadlock between buffering and audio threads?
19:32:41pondlifeAbout 1 minute to go
19:32:46pondlifeMP3, nothing fancy
19:33:08pondlifeI assume it was buffering purely because the disk had spun up when I checked.
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19:37:38dionoeahola
19:38:25pixelmapondlife: I've seen the issue too a few times (on my c200 as well as M5) but nothing to find a recipe to reproduce
19:39:56fmlLlorean: I mean, once you're in rockbox, you should be able to do everything via menu. The exception is turning the device on (there's no menu at that point) but once it's there... Of course there can also be a shortcut (long press or such) but IMHO it should also be doable via menu.
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19:40:23fmlI think the MS Windows designer put the shutdown option into the menu not without a reason.
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19:42:20Lloreanfml: Who says it isn't doable by a menu? I know *I* can turn my player off by pressing the right button while on a menu entry. It just happens to be *any* menu entry, rather than just one..
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19:42:34LloreanThe shutdown option in windows is VERY different.
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19:43:21LloreanIn windows you have many different programs running, and it more or less wants to have them terminate "nicely" rather than simply cutting power.
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19:44:00fmlLlorean: what you describe is not the normal menu operating.
19:44:56fmlLlorean: in windows, it would also be possible to initiate the shut down process by pressing a button (and not via menu). But they decided to make it available via menu as well.
19:45:08fmlI.e. via normal menu operating
19:45:46mib_pbs2yuh5Hi all. I'm getting errors in lcd-16bit.c when trying to compile the Sansa c100 bootloader as a ccolour target. Specifically: "implicit declaration of the function LCD_RGBPACK". Any leads?
19:46:21LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay, is that you?
19:46:24fmlLlorean: what you describe is shutting down *while in* menu but not *via* menu
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19:46:34MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: thanks.
19:46:37LambdaCalculus37How'd I guess? :)
19:46:38MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: :)
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19:47:52LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: I figure that the c100 may need its own LCD driver to be written before it can do anything. But linuxstb or shotofadds would be the guys to ask on that.
19:49:28MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: Yeah it's in the works. I'm just trying to get it compile as a colour target now, I think I previously made a bad assumption about mono/colour differences.
19:50:45LambdaCalculus37Ahh.
19:51:08LambdaCalculus37Better get that camera ready for the teaser shots of the bootloader running on the c100. :)
19:51:49MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: What's that expression about simple addition and chickens again?
19:52:31LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Oh damn, I forgot. :P
19:52:48Lloreanfml: In normal windows it was not always possible to shut down via a button. It depended on the hardware of your PC for a long time.
19:52:55LambdaCalculus37By the way, have you been able to run any custom code on the c100 yet?
19:53:15Lloreanfml: And what is the real difference between "Via a menu" and "while in a menu"? Just that you have to have your cursor in a different place, and press a different button? It's _slower_ and clutters the screen.
19:53:47MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: If "custom" means a bunch of weird colours and corrupted fonts displaying the GPIOs, then yes.
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19:54:13shotofaddsMarcGuay: what's LCD_PIXELFORMAT set to in your config-c100.h?
19:55:23MarcGuayshotofadds: RGB565
19:55:38fmlLlorean: I agree that it's slower and I personally would use the old way. But having a menu entry for this makes the UI complete IMHO. The UI should be able to "guide" the user till the dap is shut off (with visible means).
19:55:41MarcGuayshotofadds: Though I must say I just copied it from another file.
19:56:01Lloreanfml: There are many functions that don't have menu buttons.
19:56:09LloreanPlay/Pause, Stop, FF/RW, etc.
19:56:15MarcGuayshotofadds: I just removed the #define LCD_PIXELFORMAT VERTICAL_PACKING line left-over from the m200 file and it compiled.
19:56:44fmlIuuc, iPod also has it (I don't own an iPod myself, so I'm not sure) And I'm sure the fols at Apple have put much time and energy into UI design.
19:56:45shotofaddswell, RGB565 should work. lcd.h defines the LCD_RGBPACK macro based on the pixel format. maybe you just needed to do a clean build or something?
19:56:57shotofadds..and HAVE_LCD_COLOR is defined?
19:57:55BigBambipassing no comment on whether it should be there or not, Apple has it is not itself a reason IMO
19:58:13MarcGuayshotofadds: Yessir. And now I've got the same screen as before but what was "mono" (blue/black) before is now much more colourful. :)
19:58:40fmlLlorean: I knew you would say that :-) I also asked myself and came up with the answer that those are special cases for a dap since those actions usually have dedicated buttons. But I understand that this reasoning isn't as strict as a mathematical proof.
19:58:43shotofaddswhich screen is that? junk pixels?
19:59:11Lloreanfml: Power usually has a dedicated button too.
19:59:26LloreanIn fact on some of our players there's a hard-power off that circumvents Rockbox.
19:59:55MarcGuayshotofadds: Yep. The top third is rainbow-junk-pixels, the middle third is green "text" on black background, and I can see the "this is a long line to test scrolling" string moving (but it's illegible), along with some
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20:00:35MarcGuayshotofadds: other stuff that must be the GPIO dusplays... And the bottom third is a sort of 4x4 colour corruption thing. Helpful?
20:00:43MarcGuay*displays
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20:00:46shotofaddsnot really :p
20:01:17MarcGuayshotofadds: didn't think so. at least it's making it to the LCD, now it's just a matter of fine tuning it.
20:01:50shotofaddsI'm not sure what that tells us, really. I'm not that well-versed in these things, unfortunately.
20:01:50fmlLlorean: I know (to both of your sentences). But since switching off is not used that much (compared to play/stop/ff/rew) it's only need to turn the device on and can be used for other purposes afterwards. That it can also switch the dap off could be just a convenience.
20:02:31BagderMarcGuay: maybe you should just try careful poking different combinations to figure out exactly what output/color each written combo shows
20:02:58Lloreanfml: I think a menu option is just a convenience. I don't see how a lack of it is a "dead end" at all.
20:03:32LloreanYou could very easily think of the power button as enabling/disabling the hardware, and Rockbox is just always running when the hardware is.
20:04:17MarcGuayBagder: Good idea. Although the real problem seems to lie with the LCD driver/init, no?
20:04:44fmlLlorean: because otherwise you have to know that there is that button press. You have to know about the menu entry as well but you have at least a chance to find it. It's harder to find out that there's the button press (unless you've read the manual of course).
20:04:57Bagderquite possibly, but if you ie try filling the frame buffer with a fixed value, how that shows might offer some clues
20:05:40Lloreanfml: How did you turn it on without knowing about the power button?
20:05:59shotofaddsLambdaCalculus37: you have a m200 v1 with NAND hardware, right? could you try a quick test for me?
20:06:22shotofaddsthis patch _might_ display the NAND chip id in the bootloader: http://pastebin.ca/1048650
20:06:30shotofaddsI get zeros here on my v3
20:06:43fmlLlorean: my point is that the button is (strictly speaking) needed for turning on only.
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20:07:39fmlBut I see that not many are interested in this feature. I'd probably not use it much as well but (as I said above) it would make the UI complete.
20:08:02shotofaddsMarcGuay: post your config-c100.h and lcd driver and I'll have a quick look for anything obvious later
20:09:13shotofaddslinuxstb, BigBambi: that bootloader patch is worth trying on the DAX/ATMT jobbies, too
20:09:19*shotofadds is off for some food
20:09:43BigBambishotofadds: OK, but for the moment I can't boot from USB with the nand attached
20:09:55BigBambiIt needs to wait until I get a new soldering iron :)
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20:25:51LambdaCalculus37shotofadds: I can get the patch but have to wait till tonight. I accidentally left my m200 in my sister's car.
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20:33:27LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Dunno if shotofadds' patch will work on the c100, but do you want to give it a go?
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20:33:53LambdaCalculus37May be useful to determine the NAND chip ID on the c100 (if any).
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20:53:22LambdaCalculus37Ugh... damn patch screwed up...
20:53:34*LambdaCalculus37 reverts bootloader/telechips.c and decides to try again
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20:58:03LambdaCalculus37shotofadds: I keep attempting to patch bootloader/telechips.c, but the patch fails with "patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line".
21:00
21:01:23shotofaddsLambdaCalculus37: weird. it looks ok to me... could just try cut'n'paste I suppose - there's not much to it.
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21:02:11delorean90hello could somebody help me with a problem?
21:03:09BigBambidelorean90: If you tell us what it is
21:04:25delorean90well a day ago i was listening to music and i paused it, the alotted idle time passed so it turned off like normal. but when i went to turn it on, it said that the bootloder and .rockbox folder was missing, i also tried the original firmware and that too was missing
21:04:37BigBambiwhich player?
21:04:46delorean90iriver h10 20gb
21:04:55BigBambiand what was the actual message?
21:04:55delorean90computer says there are no files
21:05:10BigBambiwhat happens when you try to turn it on?
21:06:29delorean90what happens is there is a black screen and it says rockbox cannot find .mi4 file or.h10 file
21:07:00BigBambiSo the bootloader is still there then
21:07:21BigBambiCould you try connecting it to a PC and running a disk check?
21:07:27BigBambichkdsk if you are on windows
21:07:58delorean90yes, but strangely the computer dosent show any files it says the h10 has no storage space. could it be that the hard drive is finished? or a loose connector?
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21:08:20delorean90i tried a disk check, the computer wont even do anything
21:08:41delorean90the device manager says there are noo errors
21:08:45delorean90*no
21:09:45BigBambithat does sound odd
21:10:17BigBambiyou could try opening it and checking the connections
21:10:29delorean90also if it has any signifigance, i did do a battery change about 6 months ago, it now has a 1700mah
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21:12:15delorean90the wierdest thing is that the rockbox bootloader seems to still be on the player, im thinking that the player took a hard fall, messed up the harddrive and it worked after only because it was playing the music left on ram
21:12:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:12:24BigBambiCould be
21:12:39BigBambiOr the replacement battery could have swelled and pressed on the hard drive
21:12:44BigBambiThat is not unknown
21:12:53delorean90yes i have heard of that happening too
21:13:08delorean90ive also been noticing low battery life, even tho the battery is farily new
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21:14:07LambdaCalculus37shotofadds: That's what I did.
21:14:09BigBambiI'd open it up and have a look
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21:14:19LambdaCalculus37For some odd reason the patch just fails.
21:14:45delorean90ok thankyou for the help, im opening it up now ill let you know what i find
21:16:10shotofaddsLambdaCalculus37: it's weird, people have had trouble with my patches before. I'm not sure why - it's literally just 'svn diff bootloader/telechips.c > m200-nand.diff'
21:21:06LambdaCalculus37shotofadds: Want to post it to Flyspray, and I'll go fetch it from there?
21:22:21LambdaCalculus37Perhaps copying from pastebin to Notepad2 on my end is screwing something up, and I don't get why. I *know* I'm setting the line endings to Unix (CF) in Notepad2 before I save the patch.
21:24:07shotofaddsMaybe you could try just pasting the lines into telechips.c? It's quite simple
21:24:23LambdaCalculus37I could try. :)
21:24:38Lloreanshotofadds: Are you using Cygwin?
21:24:58shotofaddsLlorean: no, VMware
21:30:39LambdaCalculus37amiconn: Looks like we have another user with the same LCD driver problems that I had: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17257.0
21:30:56LambdaCalculus37r17714 was the last SVN build I found to not have that problem.
21:32:12delorean90ok bigbambi its apart, is there anything specific i should look for?
21:33:01BigBambiI've not looked in a H10 myself, but I'd check for hard disk and battery connections, and for battery swelling etc
21:33:28BigBambiH10 peeps - does it use an on-disk bootloader?
21:33:30delorean90im stumped on what it could be all connections were fine battery dosent look swelled at all
21:33:37BigBambihmmmm
21:34:35delorean90i know that the iriver bootloader is on flash, and that is never removed, and the rockbox bootloader is on disk because on the h10 the instalation dosent touch the flash
21:36:02LambdaCalculus37delorean90: The best guy to ask about the H10 would be barrywardell, but he isn't around right now.
21:36:26BigBambidelorean90: I'm even more confused that the disk seems gone but the bootloader remains then
21:36:55delorean90maybe its just certain corrupt sectors?
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21:37:11delorean90but that wouldnt explain why nothing at all shows up
21:38:35BigBambidelorean90: Yeah, seems odd
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21:42:33preglowshotofadds: around?
21:42:51shotofaddspreglow: sure
21:43:17preglowshotofadds: have you found the interrupt handler in of?
21:44:08delorean90would it help if i put a quick vid on youtube of what happens?
21:44:35shotofaddsyeah, wait a sec and I'll get you some directions...
21:48:12shotofaddspreglow: ok, from the start... follow the last BL in the sequence of 4/5 at 0x200000d4. That routine sets up some memory regions - the third(?) block has a destination to address of 0x0 in R1. That block is for the ARM926 vectors, including IRQ/FIQ handlers
21:49:24preglowshotofadds: stellar, thanks
21:49:38shotofaddsglad to be of service :)
21:49:46pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: there was a thought on the Ipod Color issue by linuxstb_ in the other thread - did you read that?
21:50:13LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Let me go see.
21:50:16pixelmamaybe you could help testing
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21:51:52LambdaCalculus37pixelma: This? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17158.msg127519#msg127519
21:52:48LambdaCalculus37I shall do so when I get home.
21:53:07LambdaCalculus37If it successfully works, I'll post a patch to Flyspray.
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21:56:21LambdaCalculus37shotofadds: Can you post your patch to FS?
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21:57:29pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: yes, meant exactly that
21:58:07LambdaCalculus37pixelma: And so shall it be done! :)
21:58:55*LambdaCalculus37 goes home
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21:58:58shotofaddsLambdaCalculus37: I didn't really want to as I thought FS was meant for patches that have some intention of getting into the main build. give me 2 minutes and I'll sort you out with something...
21:59:07shotofaddsah.
22:00
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22:38:50Zbubenoutch, when I perform a make clean in svn imported tree, it wipes out some directories like rockbox/firmware :)
22:39:07LloreanWell, you shouldn't be doing "make clean" in the root source directory
22:39:16LloreanYou should only be doing it in the separate build folder you've made
22:39:42Zbubenok, I tried to buid in the root directory, fast and dirty fashion :$
22:39:54LloreanYou should read the directions on the wiki.
22:40:14ZbubenI read it, I also read that it was possibe to build in the root directory
22:40:56ZbubenI gonna build my on tar.gz archive to prevent re-downloads :$
22:41:00Zbubenown*
22:41:11BagderZbuben: use svn!
22:41:23Zbubenthat's what I do actually :)
22:41:32Bagderand mkdir a build dir to build in...
22:41:39Zbubenyes
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22:43:32ZbubenI'm using debian-flat.vmdk image with qemu... It works good, but the driver "vmware" in XF86Config-4.. If you're interressed in, for qemu, the correct driver is "cirrus"
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22:47:53preglowshotofadds: weird, it seems to handle all cases of exception the same, apart from fiq and irq
22:48:04preglowshotofadds: ever seen what retailos does when it gets exceptioned? :>
22:50:47shotofaddspreglow: I did wonder about that. that code eventually jumps to PC & 0xF0000000, which will be a reset to 0x20000000.
22:51:27preglowso it just starts again
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22:52:53shotofaddslooks like it - although I've seen forum reports of poeple seeing a register-dump screen. who knows :/
22:53:47bluebrotherZbuben: feel free to add the information to the wiki :)
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23:00
23:01:06ZbubenI go to put this in additional tips
23:02:06pixelmabluebrother: I'm currently reviewing and completing plugin button tables in the manual. Now I saw a small problem in the one for the Ipods in Rockboy where the touch wheel is used as touch pad...
23:02:27pixelmaI'd like to describe the different controls somewhere (but where?) and also mention the "area" one has to press (but how to call it and should I add new button defines in the platform files or just write it down in the rockboy.tex?). Do you have an idea?
23:03:40pixelmaalso start and the calling the menu are still usual button presses
23:04:36pixelmabecause it's "select"
23:06:33bluebrotherpixelma: I think it's sufficient to opt the pad for Ipods
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23:12:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:15:07Zbubenbluebrother: I registered myself on rockbox' twiki, but I have'nt access for modifications.. I must pass some tests or rituals ? :$
23:17:13bluebrotheronly the ritual of telling your wiki name and promising not to spam :)
23:17:50ZbubenMy wikiname is ZbuBen and I promise not to spam.
23:17:51pixelmayes, the register page should tell you, also something about the name you register under...
23:18:20 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
23:18:34bluebrotherwell, I assume this is your real name?
23:19:09Zbubenmy real name is Christophe NINUCCI :$
23:19:29bluebrothererrr ... you read that we accept real names only as wiki names?
23:19:34Zbuben:$
23:19:38Zbubenok, I destroy my account.
23:20:30bluebrotherjust create a new one with your real name. I'll add you to the people allowed editing afterwards.
23:20:39Zbubenok
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23:25:18Zbubenregistration done with ChristopheNINUCCI as wikiname
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23:27:03*bluebrother wonders why french guys always scream their last names and goes fixing the edit list once more
23:27:16bluebrotherZbuben: ok, you should now be able to edit wiki pages.
23:27:51bluebrotherwelcome to the wonderful world of Rockbox :)
23:28:09*gevaerts goes to sleep
23:28:12gevaertsGood night @!
23:29:12Zbubenthanks :)
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