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#rockbox log for 2008-07-08

00:00:00Nico_Pstripwax: it's also free as in free speech
00:00:01stripwaxgoffa - I think I agree with those key combinations
00:00:24rocko_so it uses gstreamer then to play mp3 then
00:00:32Bagderrocko_: no
00:00:32Nico_Pno it doesn't
00:00:39stripwaxNico_P - I know, I just wanted to understand what "completely free" meant vs "free" :)
00:00:45Nico_Pah :)
00:00:49goffamaybe right after double left could go to the next album rather than a random (in case you screw up by going back)
00:00:59stripwaxrocko - rockbox uses rockbox to play mp3
00:01:02Nico_Pstripwax: I had a hard time believing you wouldn't know it
00:01:12goffathat would make it the most intuitive
00:01:17rocko_gstreamer codecs
00:01:21goffaat least in my mind :)
00:01:22stripwaxNico_P - :)
00:01:29Bagderrocko_: no gstreamer at all is involved
00:01:32Lloreanrocko_: I have no idea why you're jumping to that conclusion.
00:01:45stripwaxrocko - take a look at the source code for rockbox to find out what it uses
00:01:54stripwaxfor mp3, it uses libmad
00:02:42bluebrotherwhy the hell do we need to use gstreamer? There's more decoders than that
00:03:02rocko_because you said that rockbox is completely free as in freedom and not free beer
00:03:04bluebrotherfor vorbis, there is tremor around −− released by the guys who created vorbis.
00:03:16stripwaxrocko - it is
00:03:16Bagderrocko_: free doesn't imply gstreamer...
00:03:25*bluebrother feels an "it's illegal" argument coming up
00:03:26gevaertsrocko_: sure, but there is more free software around than just gstreamer...
00:03:27stripwaxrockbox is 'free' to do what it likes
00:03:42stripwaxrocko - please google for libmad and tremor
00:03:54*MarcGuay thinks rocco_ has been here before and is looking for a place on the GoldenQuotes page.
00:03:54rocko_well if you guys use non free codecs then it would make rockbox non free in the guideslines of free software
00:04:04Bagderrocko_: we don't
00:04:07stripwaxwe *dont* use non free codec
00:04:08Bagderwe use free source
00:04:18stripwaxrocko - *please* google libmad and tremor
00:04:23bluebrotherrocko_: please define a "free" codec.
00:04:45stripwaxquote: "gstreamer is a multimedia framework with the type system based on GObject".. blah
00:04:48rocko_free codec meaning that the source code is released
00:04:51stripwaxit is
00:04:56stripwaxlibmad is open source, as is tremor
00:05:00stripwaxand all of the other codecs we use
00:05:07bluebrotherwell, is the source of Rockbox codecs released or not?
00:05:13Bagderrocko_: rockbox is 100% free software, free source, free as in gratis, and libre and open source. And free.
00:05:18bluebrotherit doesn't matter what it's based on −− the code is available
00:05:21BigBambistripwax: Don't be stupid - gstreamer is the only project that has ever released source code :)
00:05:34*stripwax slaps forehead - oh yeah! I remember now!
00:05:56rocko_their is a difference between open source and free software
00:06:00stripwaxrocko - do you have much experience of free/open source software?
00:06:02gevaertsYes, and?
00:06:08BigBambi<rocko_> free codec meaning that the source code is released
00:06:10Bagderrocko_: get real, rockbox is both free software and open source
00:06:17BigBambiWhich many more than gstreamer have done
00:06:22k4ythis almost smells like a troll...
00:06:30BigBambior an idiot
00:06:30stripwaxrocko - rockbox is *covered by* the GNU license! do some research please
00:06:32Bagderbig-time troll
00:06:40*bluebrother goes for popcorn and waits for the "illegal" claim
00:06:43k4yBigBambi: what? you mean those aren't the same things?
00:07:12BigBambik4y: :) one is both, the other is just itself
00:07:16stripwaxrocko - but before this gets too heated, I'm wondering if you had a question you wanted to ask about rockbox
00:07:35k4yBigBambi: and figuring out which is which is left as an exercise to the reader :)
00:07:41BigBambiindeed so
00:08:01rocko_well that is for rockbox source code not for all the other stuff rockbox uses
00:08:13BigBambiEverything we use has to be GPL compatible
00:08:18BigBambiOr we couldn't use it
00:08:35rocko_I know but it still can contain non free software
00:08:40Bagderrocko_: no
00:08:41LloreanNo, it can't.
00:08:44Nico_Procko_: we happen to know a wee bit about how open source and free software work
00:08:48bluebrotherrocko_: what is "the other stuff"?
00:09:05Lloreanrocko_: Our core binary is GPLv2 or later, thus any linked code (which is all off it) must be of a compatible license.
00:09:14LloreanWe don't use binary codecs.
00:09:54stripwaxrocko - did you have a real question you wanted to ask about rockbox, or just open source development in general? It sounds like you need to do some more research about what rockbox is and isn't first, but we can point you in the right direction
00:09:57rocko_I have no questions about rockbox
00:10:10stripwaxThen this is probably not the right place to be ...
00:10:11BigBambiYou should do, as you clearly don't know enough bout it
00:10:40rocko_well I know how to use it
00:11:01bluebrothersooo ... no Rockbox related question? Then it's off topic
00:11:03rocko_all I was asking is if it following under the guidelines of fsf
00:11:10BigBambiThat obviosuly hasn't translated into knowing anything about it
00:11:21BigBambirocko_: No, you were telling us it doesn't
00:11:21Bagderrocko_: we don't follow FSF at all, we adhere to GPLv2
00:11:47bluebrotherrocko_: I'm still waiting for you to tell us we're doing illegal things
00:12:00*goffa wonders where he should propose his random folder advance behavior ideas (other than here)
00:12:02bluebrotherbesides I'm waiting for the claim to be gstreamer-based
00:12:03stripwaxrocko - assuming you are interested, feel free to browse the freely-available open source code that makes up the rockbox operating system and all of its codecs and plugins at
00:12:31Lloreangoffa: The "Feature Ideas" subforum is a good place to get feedback
00:12:54goffaok.. i'll head there
00:12:57rocko_fsf is for gpl
00:13:12bluebrotherFSF != GNU
00:13:13stripwaxrocko - I think your level of knowledge might be outnumbered here..
00:13:15BigBambiwhat does that even mean?
00:13:26Bagderthis rocko_ guy is amusing, we should have him here more often ;-)
00:13:27rocko_I know
00:13:29bluebrotherI'm for more beer in this channel
00:13:30 Quit ender` (" If you're going to do something tonight that you'll be sorry for tomorrow morning, sleep late.")
00:13:30*stripwax wonders if knowledge can be numbered
00:13:43rocko_well Bagder: rocko_: we don't follow FSF at all, we adhere to GPLv2
00:13:44BigBambistripwax: as in days? :)
00:13:45bluebrothersomeone take good care of our channel troll :)
00:13:50Bagderrocko_: exactly
00:13:51Lloreanrocko_: Unfortunately, it's not our place to attempt to educate you on licenses. Rockbox is licensed under "GPLv2 or later" and that includes all of its codecs and plugins.
00:13:51*petur distributes some beers
00:14:02stripwaxBigBambi - yeah, that'll do :)
00:14:09BigBambipetur: many thanks :)
00:14:13Lloreanrocko_: Really, that's the key: All code compiled into Rockbox falls under this license.
00:14:35gevaertsstripwax: of course it can. All knowledge is expressable in some language, all languages are expressable in symbols, and all symbol sets can be enumerated. Therefore, all knowledge can be enumerated, or numbered
00:14:49rocko_so no body knows if it falls under the guidelines of fsf I know it is under gpl
00:14:59stripwaxwhat does that mean?
00:15:09Bagderfalls under the guidelines?
00:15:16bluebrotherRockbox is not a GNU project. But it doesn't need to
00:15:30rocko_fsf guidelines for free software
00:15:40 Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat")
00:15:40bluebrotherrocko_: what on earth is your goal?
00:15:40 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:15:41stripwaxgevaerts - ha, nice. except all nonsense can be enumerated at the same time, and you haven't provided a countable rule for separating the two :)
00:15:46LloreanDon't the FSF guidelines apply to licenses?
00:15:47BigBambiI'm hugely confused
00:15:56Bagderwhat more guidelines would we need than being GPLv2 and entirely free?
00:16:01gevaertsrocko_: the fsf wrote the gpl, so if the gpl doesn't follow their guidelines, that's their problem
00:16:19gevaertsstripwax: possibly, but you didn't ask that ;)
00:16:20bluebrotherrocko_: you need to get the licence form first. Otherwise we can't answer you that question.
00:16:33bluebrotheryou need it filled, stamped three times and signed.
00:17:00stripwaxrocko - **please** with two stars, read and understand the significance of what being covered by a GPL license means
00:17:17bluebrotherbesides, while some codecs use an fft we only need to adhere to the rules of an fft. Not the fsf
00:17:18rocko_ok so this conversation is over since no one knows have a nice day and great job on making rockbox guys:-D
00:17:29stripwaxrocko - everyone knows, unfortunately
00:17:32bluebrotherrocko_: remember the fft!
00:17:36k4ystripwax: almost everyone
00:17:40stripwaxrocko - see you around!
00:17:41bluebrotherand sometimes also the ifft!
00:17:48Bagderone knows?
00:17:50BigBambiI know he makes no sense, if that helps
00:17:51bluebrother(even more important!)
00:17:51Bagderno one even
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00:17:59 Join gromit` [0] (
00:18:05bluebrotherBigBambi: do we make sense? ;-)
00:18:09LloreanOur software meets all four Freedoms they list on their site. I'd say we meet their guidelines just fine.
00:18:16BigBambibluebrother: Of course!
00:18:47rocko_ok cool Llorean thats what I wanted to know
00:18:51bluebrotherour software is even compatible to FAT!
00:18:58Bagderbtw, FSF has no such guidelines
00:19:09bluebrotherrocko_: are you compatible to FAT? Or fft?
00:19:12Bagderat least not that google can point out
00:19:14bluebrotheror even fsf?
00:19:22Lloreanrocko_: You might be interested to know that if a software is GPL licensed, it must meet those as the GPLv2 enforces those very freedoms.
00:19:25stripwaxprobably LGPL
00:19:45MU{lappy}bluebrother: wouldn't he need to be periodic to be compatible w/ FFT?
00:19:49MU{lappy}we could window him :P
00:19:50LloreanBagder: I can only assume:
00:19:58stripwaxMU{lappy} - I hope he isn't periodic :)
00:20:06bluebrotherMU{lappy}: hopefully not ;-)
00:20:10BagderLlorean: yes I guess so
00:20:15bluebrotherbut, thinking of his base frequency ...
00:20:27rocko_I was just going to post that Llorean
00:20:28Bagderbut even MIT licensed code meets those definitions
00:20:35k4ywhen does GSoC start?
00:20:41BigBambiages ago
00:20:42bluebrotherit already did
00:20:46k4yoh okay
00:20:48Lloreank4y: We're at the midterm now.
00:20:56 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]")
00:21:21k4yso are there some GSoC volunteers working on rockbox at the moment then?
00:21:23 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00:21:27rocko_well other licenses that are open source can also include non free software like that of mozilla license
00:21:39BigBambik4y: volunteers generally don't get paid :)
00:21:40Bagderrocko_: yes, but we said 22 times that we are GPLv2
00:21:42stripwaxbut, rockbox is covered by GPLv2, so ..
00:21:43Lloreanrocko_: We didn't say we were using other licenses.
00:21:54bluebrotherindeed, they include Gecko, which is free
00:21:58BigBambik4y: But yes, there are some students
00:22:02k4yBigBambi: good point
00:22:15k4yBigBambi: i'm not sure what to call them GSoCers
00:22:21bluebrotherI think we have 4 student this year
00:22:25k4yoops, missed some punctuation
00:22:33BigBambiStudents generally
00:22:34rocko_firefox is not completely free software
00:22:38 Quit linuxstb (Connection timed out)
00:22:40BigBambiHow is that relevent
00:22:52BigBambirocko_: ROCKBOX USES GPL V2 OR LATER
00:22:57*stripwax ignores rocko
00:22:57bluebrotheryes, the logo is incompatible with Debians licensing-thingy.
00:23:02bluebrotherbut so is their own logo
00:23:09rocko_linux kernel is gpl and it can have non free software
00:23:24Lloreanrocko_: And the non-free software *isn't* the linux kernel.
00:23:27*Bagder gives in
00:23:29gevaertsrocko_: linux, firefox, and _you_ are off-topic here
00:23:33BigBambirocko_: read Llorean's previous answer
00:23:56k4ywhat's the advantage of implementing MTP support in Rockbox?
00:24:03BigBambirocko_: <Llorean> rocko_: Our core binary is GPLv2 or later, thus any linked code (which is all off it) must be of a compatible license. <Llorean> We don't use binary codecs.
00:24:14k4yor rather, what are some of the advantages of MTP over MSC?
00:24:17preglowk4y: being able to use mtp?
00:24:21bluebrotherwow, multiple quotes on irc ...
00:24:26gevaertsk4y: forget it, you won't get on-topic conversation here any time soon unfortunately
00:24:31bluebrotherk4y: I don't see any
00:24:45*gevaerts sees one :)
00:24:46BigBambik4y: Personally, I can't see any ;)
00:24:50k4ygevaerts: hopefully trollo_ will leave soon
00:24:52Lloreank4y: MTP offers some functionality (additional metadata with transferred songs, I believe) that might allow easier use for some users.
00:25:08LloreanThe net benefit is very debatable.
00:25:18 Join fdinel [0] (
00:25:23preglowLlorean: aha, and no need to scan db afterwards
00:25:24k4yokay, that's what i thought; just wanted to check that i wasn't completely wrong
00:25:27gevaertsk4y: mtp allows the device to remain functional while files are being transfered (but I don't know if anyone actually does that)
00:25:34preglowLlorean: am i wrong in saying that mtp has no subdirectory support?
00:25:40MU{lappy}on the order of 1E-10Hz would be acceptable to me ;P
00:25:51k4ywow, i wish one of the GSoC students were doing work on a Sansa Fuze port ;)
00:26:06k4ygevaerts: functional? as in still usable as a media player?
00:26:11gevaertspreglow: AFAIK it uses a hierarchical tree, which can be mapped to subdirectories
00:26:15gevaertsk4y: yes
00:26:18preglowgevaerts: ahh
00:26:26rocko_well I hope no hard feeling of any kind well I didn't mean for it to get heated or any thing like that just wanted to know thats all
00:26:33k4ygevaerts: oh, i didn't know that. i've never seen a device that does that
00:26:39Lloreanpreglow: Was gonna say, in using different MTP devices I'm pretty sure I've seen them put files on the player in different "real" layouts
00:27:02*bluebrother looks at the heat in the channel
00:27:22MU{lappy}beast OF doesn't use "real" directories,although i imagine real directories could be mapped to MTP folders easily enough
00:27:28*stripwax still isn't sure what rocko actually wanted to know
00:27:37gevaertsk4y: if we ever do MTP, we will support that
00:27:56 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:29:02rocko_stripwax: I wanted to know it rockbox adheres to the 4 freedoms of gnu fsf
00:29:26bluebrotherrocko_: how about reading them yourself?
00:29:57rocko_it's a simple question
00:30:08stripwaxrocko - next time, please make it more clear what it is you want to know, and take our word for it when we give you an answer in the affirmative :)
00:30:09bluebrotherseriously, do we care about being compilant to ABC, XAG, FDW, HDQ, LPQ or even HWAQ?
00:30:26*bluebrother steals stripwax a smiley
00:30:34gevaertsrocko_: we also gave you simple answers, which you didn't (want to?) understand. Therefore we very much doubt if you understand the question
00:31:13*bluebrother doubts rocko_ understands these explanations
00:32:20rocko_well look at the amount of distros supported by gnu as adhering to the 4 freedoms as you can see most distros include non free software
00:32:45BigBambiWe aren't a linux distro.....
00:32:49gevaertsrocko_: again, what do linux distributions have to do with rockbox?
00:32:55BigBambiOr anything to do with linux
00:33:06BigBambirocko_: You know Rockbox is not based on linux right?
00:33:17bluebrotherrocko_: stop it. Now.
00:33:35rocko_I know but does rockbox adhere to them I know rockbox is not linux based
00:33:46bluebrotherrocko_: stop it. Now.
00:34:04 Join jon-kha [0] (
00:34:26BigBambirocko_: Yes, as you have been told at least 40 times. You don't seem to understand why, but never mind. All done now
00:34:48Lloreanrocko_: Rockbox does not include _any_ other software. It is JUST Rockbox. And Rockbox is GPLv2 licensed. Linux "distros" contain a lot of other programs, which is why things work different for them. Rockbox is _one_ program with _one_ license covering the entirety of everything in the program.
00:35:15rocko_what about the codecs it uses
00:35:21LloreanThey're part of the program
00:35:31rocko_and the programs it comes with
00:35:36LloreanIt doesn't come with programs
00:35:49rocko_like the text editor
00:35:54LloreanThat's a plugin, it's part of Rockbox
00:37:05stripwaxrocko - you can answer all of your own questions by going to the link I posted earlier in this conversation. all of the source code, and all of the license information, is there for your viewing pleasure.
00:38:05 Quit shotofadds (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:38:12k4yi'm guessing that enlightenment is not rocko_'s primary goal here
00:39:00*bluebrother wonders if rocko_ wants to get most annoying person in this channel
00:39:44rocko_that text editor is killer I really like it I can read project gutenberg ebooks on it plus it starts where I left off when I view the file again
00:40:50 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:41:55rocko_sorry bluebrother
00:42:15rocko_what do you mean by enlightenment k4y?
00:42:29 Quit obo ("bye")
00:42:49goffawow... rocko's still here
00:42:54rocko_like buddism enlightment
00:42:58goffaarguing on the internet comes to mind...
00:43:02k4yyes, like that
00:43:11BigBambiLet's try to stay on topic more now please
00:43:22rocko_ok will do
00:43:43*stripwax wonders 'now, where was I..?'
00:44:10 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:44:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:45:09rocko_well k4y I do meditate once in a while and do lucid dreams sometimes
00:45:17 Quit herrwaldo (Remote closed the connection)
00:45:21k4ythat doesn't seem very on topic
00:45:44rocko_i know about you talked about enlightenment
00:45:45BigBambirocko_: on topic. Saying you will stay on topic then saying that next line....
00:46:17stripwaxrocko - please remember that this channel is logged, and people come to search the irc logs looking for information about rockbox
00:46:41rocko_ok I know any one can logged this channel too
00:47:43stripwaxrocko - no, I mean we have archives of everything said by everyone in this channel, so staying on topic means those logs remain useful to others
00:48:39bluebrotherrocko_: remember: as this channel is logged people can search the archives and re-read your rather useful questions
00:48:45*bluebrother turns of sarcasm mode
00:49:17 Nick cg_ is now known as cg (n=cromos@
00:49:17rocko_so how is rockbox coming along with getting it to work on the latest ipods?
00:49:19stripwaxis "open()" for files dircache-safe ?
00:49:36rocko_man apple is really gay doing that encryption crap
00:49:46stripwaxrocko - no-one is doing any such work, as far as I know
00:49:52BigBambirocko_: For the very last time, stop it
00:50:05rocko_stop what
00:50:10rocko_I am on topic
00:50:14BigBambirocko_> man apple is really gay doing that encryption crap
00:50:25BigBambiThat is not helpful, or what we want here
00:50:27bluebrothersomeone pleeease summon chanserv
00:50:32rocko_well that is why rockbox has that problem
00:50:45rocko_wikipedia said so
00:51:00stripwaxor, if yuo are Apple, that is how Apple keep users locked into iTunes
00:51:04MU{lappy}if you have to explain how you're on-topic... you probably are not.
00:51:12gevaertsrockbox has no problem whatsoever with the ipods having encrypted firmware
00:51:37rocko_then why can't it work on the latest ipods
00:52:10*MarcGuay yawns.
00:52:11gevaertsThere are thousands of players around. Rockbox runs on about 30 of them. One or two more or less are _not_ a problem
00:52:14 Join dataangel [0] (n=prophet@
00:52:33rocko_Work on Rockbox for the iPod nano (second but not third), iPod Touch, and the iPod Classic has not begun due to firmware encryption that Apple places on all new iPods
00:52:44*stripwax actually listens to the test_codec track for the very first time .. what on earth is this?!
00:53:22stripwaxrocko - yes, rockbox does not run on those, and nobody is working on making it work on those
00:53:23bluebrotherrocko_: we know that. No need to repeat it
00:53:35stripwax"we" don't have a problem with it not working on those
00:53:36bluebrotherplease stop pasting the obvious
00:53:38BigBambiBelieve it or not, you don't need to repeat the wikipedia entry to the people who wrote it
00:53:51BigBambiThe software that is, not the article
00:54:13rocko_I stated that because of (05:51:12 PM) gevaerts: rockbox has no problem whatsoever with the ipods having encrypted firmware
00:54:26BigBambiYou now need to read his next line
00:54:26stripwaxrocko - please read my immediately previous reply
00:54:27dataangelWhen I plug my 8GB microSD card into my sansa e200, the file viewer only shows the folders on the card. Do I have to get something special to show my files or is it a bug?
00:55:24rocko_I read that stripwax
00:55:38BigBambidataangel: What is Show files set to? What did you copy on it? How did you copy them on?
00:55:39gevaertsdataangel: you may be in "show playlists only" modeby accident. Look in Settings->General Settings->File View->Show Files
00:56:12stripwaxrocko - so, you understand that it doesn't work, and nobody is working on fixing that, and that we don't mind that nobody is working on fixing that?
00:56:18rocko_ok thanks for your answers every body
00:56:28dataangelI used a card reader and my pc, copied over an mp3 to the root folder (in case it wasn't looking in subfolders) and also a few folders full of mp3s
00:56:33dataangellemme check setting...
00:57:07dataangeloh pfft that was it
00:57:31 Quit jhulst (No route to host)
00:58:45gevaertsNo problem. Have fun listening
01:00:04 Join Shaid [0] (
01:02:27stripwaxDoes anyone have a good tip for switching between a "test"/profiling build on-device and a "actually want to use" build on device? Other than unzipping the particular onto the device each time. Do we support multiple .rockbox folders in any way?
01:03:06gevaertsYou could rename them on the device (not really that easy...)
01:03:23BigBambiROLO 9depending on device)
01:03:31MU{lappy}easy on beast! go go bootloader MSC
01:03:58stripwaxROLO supports more than just rockbox.xxxx swapping (e.g. plugins too?)
01:04:00BigBambiMU{lappy}: but bootloader != build, and you still need a PC
01:04:12BigBambistripwax: Ah, a complete build
01:04:16gevaertsRenaming while connected is easy. It's without connecting that's tricky
01:04:27BigBambistripwax: No, in that case I don't think so
01:04:45*gevaerts waits for safetydan's lua plugin. That one should make this easy
01:04:59 Quit vort3x ("Leaving")
01:05:07stripwaxDidn't think so, but thought I'd check, ta
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01:09:18 Quit stoffel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:12:48MarcGuayLambdacalculus (for the logs):, if you've got a minute.
01:14:01rocko_rockbox rules
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01:43:18 Join dave36 [0] (
01:43:44dave36I am a big fan of RUN DMC
01:44:04dave36so you guys n ladies really like the song rockbox huh
01:44:47 Part dave36
01:45:58 Quit rocko_ ("Leaving.")
01:50:45 Quit Shaid ("*toink*")
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01:57:03shadoxxAnyone have any tips for finding the key to a .mi4 file to decrypt it?
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01:58:35shadoxxI have a firmware that I *can* decrypt using a default key that's in mi4code. But a later version of the firmware doesn't decrypt with the same key.
01:58:52shadoxxI've tried looking for the key for the later version somewhere in the decrypted version, but I've only come up empty
02:00:11linuxstbshadoxx: Do you have the matching bootloader for that mi4 file?
02:00:40linuxstbIIRC, mi4code can scan a bootloader to look for the key.
02:00:43shadoxxNo. :( I've been trying to find it, but I keep coming up empty. I can't figure out a way to get to the flash on this MP3 player
02:01:04shadoxxand from what I can tell, Samsung was really good about keeping their bootloaders secret
02:01:18shadoxxI can't even figure out how to *flash* the bootloader on this thing.
02:01:43linuxstbWhat hardware is in your player?
02:02:14shadoxxIt's a Samsung YH-820, PP5020
02:02:23linuxstbhard disk, or flash?
02:02:36shadoxxhard disk, with a 4MB flash chip on the PCB
02:02:44shadoxxI think that's where the bootloader is stored
02:03:35shadoxxI've tried booting it without the harddrive, but that only makes it come up with the error, "Could not initialize hard disk. Shutting down."
02:03:58linuxstbThen the existing hard disk (ATA) driver in Rockbox for the PP5020 is likely to work. You can then dump parts of memory (the flash will almost certainly be mapped to address 0x0) to disk.)
02:04:31shadoxxThere are a bunch of testpoints on the PCB, but I couldn't even begin to know which ones I should short.
02:04:33shadoxxAnd hmm
02:05:15linuxstbDo you know how the firmware upgrade works? Is there some kind of recovery mode which would allow you to run test code?
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02:05:41shadoxxAnother thing I'm trying to figure out. It seems to update the firmware, there are two .mi4 files you put in /SYSTEM
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02:06:24stripwax_What does it mean when objdump reports a function in the ".iram" section, rather than say ".icode"?
02:06:28shadoxxthe one you find on the samsung website (FW_820.mi4) and their MTP update (YH820_J.mi4)
02:06:53shadoxxalong with some the font file in /System/Font
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02:07:25linuxstbshadoxx: Do the files get deleted after you copy them to the device?
02:07:56shadoxxFW_820.mi4 does once you turn it on after putting them in /SYSTEM and deleting everything else
02:08:06shadoxxwhich leaves the 'Janus' firmware
02:08:22shadoxxThe one which enables the player with DRM, for subscription services
02:08:24linuxstbAnd are you sure the flash is 4MB (i.e. megabytes) and not 4Mbit (megabits - i.e. 512KB) ?
02:08:42shadoxxyeah, nvm. it's mbit
02:08:44shadoxxAccess time: 70ns; 4M-bit (512K x 8/256K x 16) CMOS single voltage 3V only flash memory Operational temperature range from -40°C to 85°C.
02:08:56shadoxxInfo on the flash chip
02:09:04linuxstbAnd I'm guessing the .mi4 file is larger than that?
02:09:26shadoxxmuch. the FW_820.mi4 file is around 2MB. the YH820_J.mi4 file is around 4
02:09:44linuxstbOK, so they must be being copied to a hidden part of the hard disk...
02:10:20shadoxxI'll /dev/sda1 to a file, and do some poking
02:10:27shadoxxi'll cat /dev/sda1 *
02:10:36linuxstbThere's no /dev/sda2 ?
02:10:37shadoxxrather, /dev/sda
02:11:41linuxstbIt's possible (the Sansa E2x0R models do this) that that part of the disk isn't made visible over USB. The only way to access it would be to remove the disk from your player and hook it up to a computer
02:12:45shadoxxhaha. Only problem is the connector. I'd have to find a connector to fit it
02:13:45shadoxxI'm thinking if I figured out the testpoints, I might be able to put it into debug mode.
02:14:06shadoxxThere's an email in the decoded FW_820.mi4 file. I should send him a line. haha
02:14:31shadoxxalong with what looks like an extention to his desk
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02:16:08linuxstbshadoxx: But anyway, if you haven't done so already, you may want to start a thread in the "New Ports" Rockbox forum - other people may have some ideas, and it could attract other YH820 owners.
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02:17:04shadoxxI think I'll do that. Looks like a few other people have inquired about this player, and I'm the first one to actually crack it open and have at it.
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02:19:38shadoxxAlso, did I mention I have little to no experience coding in C? This should be interesting.
02:20:48linuxstbRockbox is a fun way to learn C...
02:20:51*linuxstb sleeps
02:24:08stripwax_Finally got the profile_reader working properly with my arm profile output. Some bugs in the perl. Will upload a patch tomorrow but not sure how to detect the 'right' objdump to use for a given target : perl just calls "objdump" but I need "arm-elf-objdump". Any way I can detect that from the build directory, or just have a mapping for each target?
02:24:31stripwax_by "the perl" I mean tools/profile_reader/
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03:03:59ivorHello, can anyone refer me to a WPS that uses the conditional viewport tags (%Vl, %Vd)
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03:59:48*JdGordon slaps MarcGuay
03:59:56JdGordonsomething cant be new and improved!
04:02:13*MarcGuay is rudely awakened.
04:02:34MarcGuayIt's both, I'm that amazing.
04:03:51MarcGuayIt's an improvement on nothing.
04:04:03*MarcGuay is grasping at logical straws.
04:04:21JdGordonim all for commitiing it btw
04:04:44goffa_so i'm missing what's new and improved
04:04:48goffa_i must have missed some stuff
04:05:45MarcGuayJdGordon: Did you give it a test run or just look over the code?
04:05:54JdGordonjust looked at it
04:06:07JdGordonI dont tihnk there are many ipod recerders and it looks ok
04:06:26MarcGuayJdGordon: You want to do the manual update? :)
04:06:26JdGordonbut posting on the ml/forums about it before comimting is a good idea
04:06:33goffa_ah.. doesn't affect me
04:07:06goffa_down to 2 breeds, iaudio and gigabeat
04:07:38MarcGuayI'm off again tomorrow so I'll ask around before committing it and work on the manual in the interrum.
04:09:28MarcGuayJdGordon: There was talk earlier about the way random folder goes random backwards, and how might be caused by that short-long dir in gwps.c.
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04:10:01MarcGuayAlthough I couldn't see how it behaves any differently from the combo press - they both simply call the same function.
04:11:05JdGordonhmm... I can guess why...
04:11:18JdGordonill have a looky
04:11:27JdGordonbut first.. breaky time
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04:45:50JdGordonsomething is not right with the build servers :(
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04:51:17wpyhBuschel: I've ran the last test and got very weird results: the total runtime doesn't change (it actually shortens by a few seconds) when I used 128kbps mp3 instead of 192 kbps mp3.
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04:52:37goffa_JdGordon: so.. you think you know what's wrong with the short long/right?
04:52:56goffa_short/long left, combo left, and combo right all behave
04:53:22JdGordoni have an idea
04:53:26goffa_its just the short/long right that screws up
04:53:26JdGordoncould be very wrong though
04:53:30goffa_i was in here earlier
04:53:41*JdGordon thought it was short/long left that was broekn
04:54:37goffa_well.. depends on your deffinition of broken :)
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04:56:41goffa_short/long left goes to a random dir
04:56:45goffa_but there is no issue with sound
04:56:53goffa_to me i think it should go to prev
04:57:06JdGordonhmm.. yeah its a bug for nico... playback probably gets stuck because audio_next() is called before the dir change
04:57:22JdGordonI saw your forum thread on that and disagree
04:57:52goffa_any reason why?
04:58:15JdGordonbecause if random is enabled then going forward or backwards shold still be random
04:59:22goffa_well to me that is redundant
05:01:11goffa_only thing i wonder about the proposed change is this: how far back could you go? and how much would that tax the system
05:01:54goffa_to me back should be back no matter what.. should just be a degree of how far back do you want to go (left, or combo)
05:02:18goffa_but.. i will say.. that is working 100% from an audio playback standpoint
05:03:28goffa_i know rockbox isn't a lemming... but all other players go back to where they came from in random :)
05:03:43goffa_even rockbox's random allows you to go back if you're in a playlist
05:06:15JdGordonwell... the previous directory _could_ be stored.. but beyond that it would have to be scanned for which means it wontr happen
05:06:43goffa_well 1 dir would be sufficient anyway
05:06:52JdGordonthen its inconsistant
05:07:28goffa_the only reason i'd go back is because i accidentally went forward
05:07:41goffa_and don't want to access the file browser to go to the previous directory
05:07:49goffa_assuming i kept track of what it was
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05:08:22goffa_like i heard a song i wanted to hear, but didn't know who it was by.. and advanced to fast :)
05:08:37JdGordonyeah, that can be annoying
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05:09:35goffa_that does pose a problem with my double left too.. i'm assuming
05:10:01goffa_but that could just load prev dir
05:14:43goffa_i mean double left from the 1st track in the dir too
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05:39:27MarcGuayI want to close as there's no way that title has been true for this long without a torrent of users looking for support.
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05:43:09JdGordonyeah, I saw that one yesterday and wanted to close it also
05:43:33JdGordonalso, I'm thinking he is usang an old bootloader...
05:43:44JdGordonsince when has the ipod loader said version 2.0?
05:44:56MarcGuayJdGordon: No idea about the version number. Close it and request a re-open if it's still happening?
05:48:50JdGordonMarcGuay: that runtime task is debatable weayther it should have been closed... each target needs to be calibrated individually...
05:50:31MarcGuayJdGordon: My bad, then. I read the "h300" too quickly. Should have stayed with my first instinct from a few months ago.
05:50:41JdGordonleave it closed
05:52:34MarcGuayJdGordon: Too late.
05:52:40MarcGuayFlyspray spam is tasty.
05:52:42JdGordonclose it :D
05:54:11JdGordonout of 18000 emails in my gmail account.... 8200 are FS... !
05:54:12MarcGuayAny X5 owners want to confirm/deny this: please?
05:54:42MarcGuaySome of my best friends are spammers?
05:55:11goffa_lol..i don't know if i dare upgrade the firmware
05:55:40goffa_that'd mean plugging the machine into a filthy windows box if it doesn't work
05:56:07goffa_let me go grab the x5
05:56:57MarcGuaygoffa_: You are a hero. 50 virgins and a bag of chips await you in the afterlife.
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05:57:27goffa_why are they virgins?
05:59:16homielowegevearts: for the logs , reading about the issue with the gigabeat S not playing nice with mac osx, it works fine on my mac, osx 10.5.3 . It will show two separate drives with the same name.
06:01:43MarcGuayGigabeat F users, show some love:
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06:07:46MarcGuayDidn't the H10 battery get an overhaul recently as part of the PP power-saving deal? Is this still relavent?
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06:17:37delorean90i have always had terrible battery life with my h10, even after the 1700mAh battery swap
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06:21:49MarcGuaydelorean90: Does that have anything to do with that FS entry or is it just a fact of life?
06:22:58MarcGuaygoffa_: Do you feel you've tested enough to close it?
06:23:35MarcGuayIt sucks when the original reporters disappear, but what can you do...
06:27:54goffa_MarcGuay: i think so
06:28:10goffa_hooked it up to 3 boxes
06:28:19goffa_unfortunately they are all running the same distro
06:28:33goffa_so i can't give a wide range of data as to which machines are affected
06:28:49MarcGuaygoffa_: Excellent, thanks... Is it the same one that Rani mentions in the last comment?
06:30:01MarcGuayMind leaving a comment on the task before I close it?
06:31:08goffa_slapped something quick and dirty up there
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07:27:05MarcGuaywpyh: Does Bubbles on the ipod use the wheel to move the aimer left and right?
07:28:13MarcGuayLooking at if you're wondering why i'm asking you seemingly random questions.
07:28:36wpyhMarcGuay: I think that's the first question you asked me ;)
07:28:50wpyhuh, that bug
07:28:54wpyhit's a menu bug
07:29:00MarcGuayAnd the directions are fine in the game, just backwards in the menu level selection?
07:29:16wpyhIIRC this was discussed a while a go
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07:29:30wpyhthe problem is that Bubbles uses the pluginlib
07:29:41wpyhwhich doesn't expose the buttons but instead provide actions
07:30:04wpyhand IIRC as well, there is a discussion about using a new system for input for plugins in the devcon
07:30:09MarcGuayAccording to the code only the e200 is defined to use the wheel.
07:31:41wpyhyou mean the Bubbles code?
07:32:14MarcGuayYep. #if CONFIG_KEYPAD != SANSA_E200_PAD
07:33:19*wpyh has played through all 100 levels on his nano, using the wheel
07:33:41MarcGuayBut there are several instances of PLA_LEFT/RIGHT in pluginactions... It's hard to know which ones are being used at what time...
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07:35:08wpyhnano has this:#define CONFIG_KEYPAD IPOD_4G_PAD
07:35:25MarcGuayThis can't be worth the headache... :) For another day. Thanks for the input, have a good night..
07:35:45wpyhit's noon over here ;)
07:36:47wpyhhm... yeah, reading the source code, this plugin uses the rewind/forward buttons to control the aimer
07:37:02wpyhbut I think we should revamp the whole interface (using the menu based interface)
07:37:14wpyhI was looking into that code when I realized that we also need a generic text viewer
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07:41:40amiconnwpyh: You mean for help texts?
07:42:23wpyhyes, for help texts
07:42:41amiconnThere is a minimalistic one in solitaire. Maybe that's sufficient
07:42:58amiconnIt does word wrap and hard line breaks
07:43:49wpyhyes, I looked at that one before
07:44:03wpyhhowever, it seems that it needs two steps
07:44:13wpyhone step for "init" and another step for showing
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07:50:55JdGordonis that a problem though?
07:51:06amiconnwpyh: Yes it does. This way the formatting only has to be done once
07:52:56wpyhyeah, but it's a bit weird:p
07:53:05wpyhguess I'd have to get used to it...
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07:53:36*wpyh is not used to programming daps...
07:53:54amiconnThe code was written this way in order to be small, simple and fast
07:54:20amiconnIt's a bit nasty because it modifies the string in-place, hence it can't be 'const'
07:54:50amiconnBut it doesn't need additional storage, and text length is only limited by available (plugin) ram, both in size and in number of lines
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07:57:38JdGordonis the whole plugin lib linked in every .rock? or just the barts oof the lib that is used?
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08:02:39wpyhamiconn: yeah
08:02:43wpyhit seems good
08:02:59wpyh(from an embedded device's point of view)
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08:23:45JdGordonmorning B4gder, something went funny with the builds again... took over an hour to finish
08:26:27*GodEater crosses his fingers that it wasn't his fault
08:27:38GodEaterthough from looking at the logs, I can't tell *what* the problem was
08:28:14B4gderthe build system doesn't keep the logs from the previous failed attempt so I can't really tell now either
08:28:43*GodEater hopes his server will get a bit faster, ccache should be filling up nicely now
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08:30:49kushal_12_27_200How can I get rockbox to remember playback position in sansa c250 after I pause the song and listen to another song before coming back to the previous song?
08:31:21JdGordonnot if its a db playlist though
08:31:40 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
08:32:26B4gdera true
08:34:26kushal_12_27_200what I have are 30 ~50 minute audio files from lit2go. Can I have rockbox remember the playback position on each of the songs (I might need to listen to something else, or turn off the device between two sessions of listening)?
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08:35:05B4gdermultiple bookmarks
08:35:58kushal_12_27_200thanks let me see in the manual ...
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08:49:46kushal_12_27_200could someone walk me through installing rockbox in automated mode in sansa c250?
08:50:41JdGordondownload rbutil
08:50:45JdGordonclick install
08:51:12JdGordonB4gder: can that page get linked from the front page?
08:51:27B4gderI think it should, yes
08:51:34B4gder"install" or something like that
08:53:08kushal_12_27_200i downloaded it, mounted the disk image, plugged in my sansa, and double clicked the rqbuild file. nothing happened
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08:53:31kushal_12_27_200I mean rbutilqt
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08:54:06JdGordonkushal_12_27_200: on osx?
08:54:17kushal_12_27_200yes JdGordon
08:54:51kushal_12_27_200I have had a failed installation attempt before
08:54:57JdGordonhmm... thats not good
08:55:05JdGordonrbutil wouldnt open at all?
08:55:06B4gderthat Maurus is on fire!
08:55:23B4gdermighty rocking mips work
08:55:44kushal_12_27_200it won't open at all
08:56:09JdGordonhow big is the .dmg?
08:56:30kushal_12_27_20011.9 mb
08:57:00JdGordonon intel or ppc?
08:57:02kushal_12_27_200the app is 27.4 mb (Intel)
08:58:29kushal_12_27_200I am on an Intel macbook
08:59:05GodEaterJdGordon: I think we've had reports that the current RBUtil doesn't work on all versions of OSX
08:59:24kushal_12_27_200mine is 10.4.11
08:59:30GodEaterwhatever that means
08:59:37*GodEater knows nothing about OSX really
08:59:50JdGordonsounds like it isnt being built statically.... works fine on my box.. but thats also the one it was built on
08:59:52GodEaterwhich is sort of the problem, none of the developers here use it
09:00:36*JdGordon would like to setup osx in a vm
09:01:57kushal_12_27_200JdGordon, are you on leopard?
09:02:43kushal_12_27_200rbutilqt opens fine?
09:03:21JdGordonyes, but like I said.. this is the mac that it was built on..
09:03:36JdGordonif its not being fully compiled statically for some reason, any missing libs will be available
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09:05:17B4gderkushal_12_27_200: tried the 1.0.5 version?
09:05:29kushal_12_27_200not yet, do you want me to do it?
09:05:33B4gderjust replace the 6 with a 5 in the url
09:05:47B4gderit'd be interesting, that was built somewhat differently
09:06:16*B4gder does a little build of mipsel-elf in the background ...
09:06:21kushal_12_27_200its only 5.4 mb big
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09:08:05kushal_12_27_200working ...
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09:08:44kushal_12_27_200It does not open either ...
09:09:54kushal_12_27_200I know 1.0.3 opens but that was a long time ago
09:11:37kushal_12_27_200JdGordon, do you think its not opening because I have Tiger or because there might be some libraries missing?
09:12:21JdGordonim not sure...
09:15:03kushal_12_27_200do we have the same issues reported for windows and linux?
09:16:46 Join adamgolding [0] (
09:16:48adamgolding i have a weird ipod problem: rockbox will install and boot ok, but the OF never will−−i get a continuous boot even after doing 'restore' in itunes
09:18:44midgeyfor what it's worth, rbutil 1.0.6 from is working fine on my mac. Intel Macbook 10.4.11
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09:20:10kushal_12_27_200thanks midgey
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09:23:20JdGordonmidgey: do you have the qt libs isntalled?
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09:25:37midgeyJdGordon: i think I may have set them up a while back. Is there a quick way to tell?
09:25:49JdGordonno idea
09:25:56JdGordoni tihnk you can find it under frameworks somewhere in system info?
09:26:04midgey'which qmake' yields /usr/local/trolltech/qt-4.3.0/bin/qmake
09:26:56GodEaterthat would imply you have them installed :)
09:27:08midgeyIn System Profiler > Frameworks I have QTKit listed
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09:29:09midgeyerr, QTKit is for quicktime
09:30:53*midgey sleeps
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09:41:40JdGordonkushel left :(
09:45:39amiconnBagder: You could change the individual letter for m68k to 'c' (coldfire), and then use 'm' for mips
09:45:50*JdGordon guesses the problem with rbuitlqt
09:46:07amiconnAnd the wording for 'all' is a bit weird now: 'all three' ;)
09:46:19B4gderamiconn: i just didn't want to modify any of the existing ones
09:46:33B4gderbut if the mips stuff works I guess I'll poke on it again
09:53:44JdGordonok, im 99% sure the rbutil problem is its not statically linking libusb... but i dont know how to fix that
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10:11:03*JdGordon just cant win with the talking clock
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10:23:17gevaertshomielowe: thanks. Good to know. Now I just have to find a volunteer with 10.4 and a GBS to try
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10:29:39pondlifeJdGordon: ping
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10:43:11Nico_Pwhat does the anti-skip buffer setting change? the size of the PCM buffer?
10:44:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:46:38pondlifeI've long wondered....
10:53:43B4gderit just changes the margin to when it starts filling up again
10:54:10B4gderat least it does in hwcodec
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10:57:52JdGordonpondlife: pong
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11:02:09pondlifeJdGordon: Not a biggie, but wondered if you were planning more work on the voiced time in the info screen.
11:02:32pondlifeCurrently I get the worst of both worlds - the time doesn't update visually, and only speaks after a long delay.
11:02:46pondlifeI mean, it only updates visually when I move the cursor bar
11:03:00pondlife(This is on a sim, fwiw.)
11:05:56pondlifeThis also happens with or without voicing enabled.
11:06:15pondlifeI can attack it if you're not already on it.
11:07:31*pondlife continues to talk to himself...
11:08:55JdGordonsortry... one min
11:10:42pondlifeNo worries
11:12:11JdGordonyeah, I just cant win with that screen
11:12:28JdGordoncan we rip the time/date out of that and make a new screen for it and the alaram/shutdown timers?
11:12:29pondlifeOn another topic, to any WPS experts, I'm not able to get a default bitmap to "fill in" my progress bar now.
11:12:47pondlifeI'm using %pb|-|10|4|218|-|
11:13:19pondlifeI guess I should pop my entire WPS and its bitmaps up somewhere though
11:14:04JdGordonwhats it doing?
11:14:29pixelmaand what "default bitmap"?
11:14:46pondlifeDisplaying the WPS ok, but no progress bar is being drawn - only the "empty" bitmap I have defined
11:14:57pondlifeSo I see an empty progressbar all the time.
11:15:25pondlifeIt used to supply a solid bar, but I don't know if I need to put a bmp in for that now.
11:15:43JdGordon- for the bitmap should show the old bar
11:15:55JdGordonits not showing anything?
11:16:26pondlifeI'll xip up the WPS
11:16:29pondlifezip, even">
11:19:15JdGordonwhich sim?
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11:23:26JdGordonis that 4 correct for y?
11:23:39pondlifeIt was before
11:23:49pondlifeI just inserted some | and - chars
11:24:10JdGordonbefore when?
11:24:19pondlifeBefore %pb was changed
11:24:34JdGordonthe meaning of the params changed
11:24:38pondlifeAh, ok
11:24:50pondlifeWhat was it before then?
11:25:00JdGordontop|left|right|height i tihnk
11:25:33pondlifetop = y and left = x ?
11:25:58pixelmathe y-position must have been one of the later parameters
11:26:53pondlifex and y are in pixels?
11:26:55pixelma%pb|height|leftpos|rightpos|toppos| from an old revision of CustoWPS
11:27:36pixelmapondlife: yes
11:29:19JdGordon%pb|-|4|100|214|10| is what you want
11:30:15 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@
11:30:37pondlifeNot %pb|-|4|-|214|10| ?
11:30:42pixelmaI thought replacing the 100 with - should put it on the right line as it was before if you didn't specify the "toppos"
11:31:43pondlifeGreat, %pb|-|4|-|214|10| works
11:32:09JdGordonusing the number is more likely not not break if the font changes
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11:35:37JdGordonpondlife: im actually a little surprised that works (having the pb overwrite the bmp) but its nice that it does
11:35:56pondlifeIt's a long-established technique ;)
11:36:16JdGordonoh ok.. then its nice to see it still working :P
11:38:10pixelmaJdGordon: regarding the "not breaking" depends on what you want - stating the number could break it too if you use a different font height because font could overlapp progress bar then
11:39:17pondlifeAnother catch-up question - how's the smooth seeking meant to work? I find it slows down as it goes on, which is the opposite of what I'd want.
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11:39:47pondlifei.e. it seeks fast to start with, then slower
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11:42:41JdGordondoesnt it only starts slowing down when it gets near the end of the track??
11:43:16pondlifeMaybe, but if you rewind from the end to the start of the track it's rather slower than it used to be
11:43:24pondlife(even with settings on max)
11:44:11pondlifeMaybe the setting is the problem... I'll try turning it down!
11:45:23pondlifeNope, that just makes it slow all the way
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11:55:04pondlifeOK, popped a report on - maybe markun could explain what I've got wrong...
11:55:27*amiconn compared smooth seeking and the old one at devcon
11:55:37pondlifeWhat did you find?
11:55:52amiconnSmooth seeking was significantly faster than the old one for very long files, and about the same for shorter ones
11:55:54pondlifeI'm only going on gut reaction, having just updated my sim, so not very scientific.
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11:56:17pondlifeI've only tried short files, and it definitely seems slower
11:56:18amiconnI did this on hwcodec and swcodec
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11:56:33pondlifeOnly tried on H300 sim so far, I have no working target at the moment.
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11:56:50pondlifeSuffering from mass Li-Ion failure :/
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11:58:03pondlifeI don't want it to slow down at all, just always accelerate
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11:58:43amiconnIt does slow down towards the end of the track. That's nothing new
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11:59:11pondlifeMaybe the slowing down is just more pronounced now, so it feels slower even though it's not.
11:59:43pondlifeIt's very obvious when rewinding too though.
12:00:18amiconnMaybe the sim is different. On target it's definitely not any slower
12:00:49pondlifeWell, I have got a new H300 battery, so should be able to test this afternoon.
12:03:02markunpondlife: I didn't change anything to the 'slowdown' code at the end of the track, or are you not talking about that
12:03:18pondlifeIs the slowdown deliberate?
12:03:32pondlifeIf so, maybe it's too slow...
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12:03:54pondlifeI should do a comparison on target.
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12:05:44markunpondlife: the slow down was there before my change and is indeed deliberate
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12:06:02markunbut maybe it should start slowing down later or allow for a higher max speed
12:06:18markunI can't check the code right now.
12:06:18pondlifeOK, maybe it's just that the smooth seek is faster so it makes the slowdown feel slower
12:06:29GodEaterBagder: will the build servers be expected to have the mips compilers on them now too ?
12:06:48pondlifeI'd prefer it not to slowdown at track transitions at all, I think... will play.
12:06:49markunpondlife: do you like the smooth seeking otherwise?
12:07:34pondlifeI tend to have books broken up into lots of shorter tracks, for historical reasons.
12:08:20pondlife(Hence continuing acceleration across tracks would be nice if possible.)
12:09:47markunpondlife: I think that should be an option :)
12:10:01markun(if implemented)
12:10:08pondlifeOf course
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12:14:32markunpondlife: btw, it's the max_step variable in apps/gui/gwps-common.c which controls the slowdown
12:18:36PaulJamNico_P: afaik the anti skip buffer setting determines how early rebuffering happens when the buffer for compressed audio gets low.
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12:36:16B4gderGodEater: no, since there's no build table build actually using mips yet
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13:43:18linuxstbamiconn: I noticed your nice commit to the bitmap drawing functions and have a couple of questions: 1) Do you now have some kind of "test_bitmap" plugin? 2) Did you benchmark the ARM optimisations enabled for the gigabeat in lcd_bitmap_transparent_part?
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13:45:46LambdaCalculus37JdGordon: Ping
13:49:20LambdaCalculus37Or can someone take a look at some WPS tags for me?
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13:50:35pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: took a look. What am I supposed to see? ;)
13:51:01LambdaCalculus37pixelma: What tags need fixing to comply with the new WPS syntax?
13:51:04amiconn1) yes 2) no
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13:54:05pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: most likely candidate: the two %pb tags - there should only be one now and you also have to check the used parameters (also see today's log 11:something)
13:55:36B4gderbtw, I suggested Rockbox as suitable topic for a future "FLOSS Weekly" show
13:56:44mcuelenaereB4gder: last time I tried the for compiling the mipsel cc it gave me nothing but errors, let's hope your version works :)
13:57:04B4gdermcuelenaere: I built one successfully before I committed it
13:57:17B4gderso I hope it works
13:57:23gevaertsWhat? You test before you commit?
13:57:46B4gderwhen I want to show-off ;-)
13:58:02*gevaerts is shocked
13:58:46mcuelenaereI suppose that's GCC v4.0.3 which rockboxdev compiles?
13:59:00B4gderyes it is
13:59:14B4gderwe can of course change that if we want a newer one for mips
13:59:50B4gderbut I bet the MIPS development in gcc isn't racing these days
13:59:51mcuelenaerethat's not necessary I think, it's just that I'll set the right version in tools/configure
14:00:03mcuelenaerethe one I have is GCCv4.2
14:00:16mcuelenaereso no big difference I presume
14:00:58*LambdaCalculus37 yawns
14:01:13LambdaCalculus37Too early in the morning to be fixing WPS tags...
14:01:17*mcuelenaere wonders whether should state mipsel instead of mips in the choice screen
14:01:50B4gdermcuelenaere: if 4.0.3 works fine I think we can run wit that for now, for consistency
14:01:59B4gderand yes, it should say mipsel I guess
14:02:17B4gderwe also talked about switching the coldfire to use c and let mips use m
14:02:30mcuelenaereyes I saw that
14:02:43mcuelenaereto me, it doesn't matter; so do as you please :)
14:03:28B4gderI'm mostly intersted in getting to know that it builds a toolchain that works for you :-)
14:03:58mcuelenaerewell, currently it's building :)
14:04:19mcuelenaereI remember mine was stuck at GCC itself, so it got past binutils
14:04:48pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: in one of JdGordon's wps patch tasks there was also a script that should fix old WPSs for the new syntax. You could try that but if you want that revert the first %pb (the one with the bitmap name) to %P
14:05:57LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Which patch task is that?
14:07:11pixelmaFS #9027
14:07:15*mcuelenaere wonders what he did wrong last time; B4gder's mipsel cc builds fine
14:07:33*B4gder used his secret super-powers
14:07:49LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Thanks; checking it out now.
14:08:08*gevaerts points out that while it builds fine, it may not actually generate mips binaries
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14:08:33*mcuelenaere points out it doesn't have to generate mips binaries, as long as it does mipsel it's fine for him
14:08:36B4gderyou think my powers have glitches? ;-)
14:08:52*LambdaCalculus37 can't seem to bring up FS #9027 in Flyspray
14:09:10*gevaerts doesn't care about endianness naming things
14:09:27LambdaCalculus37Ahh... got it now.
14:11:10*mcuelenaere wonders whether there's a difference between elf32-littlemips and elf32-tradlittlemips
14:13:10mcuelenaere"ld terminated with signal 11 (Segmentation fault)"
14:13:55*gevaerts looks at B4gder
14:14:18B4gderthat's not gcc ;-P
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14:14:54B4gdermcuelenaere: annoying...
14:15:10B4gderprobably we should try a more recent binutils then
14:15:17B4gderwhat version did you use before?
14:15:32mcuelenaereB4gder: it occurs whenever I add *(.sbss*); to
14:15:45mcuelenaerebut if I don't, it complains about missing .sbss.line regions
14:15:58mcuelenaereah binutils
14:16:13B4gder"ld −−version"
14:16:31B4gderor mipsel-elf-ld rather
14:16:39mcuelenaeremipsel-linux-ld −−help
14:16:55B4gderah right, linux...
14:16:57mcuelenaeremipsel-elf-ld −−help: 2.16.1
14:17:08mcuelenaereso -elf is your version, -linux is the one I got from emdebian
14:17:23mcuelenaere(actually it's -gnu but I symlinked -linux to -gnu)
14:17:50LambdaCalculus37pixelma: My WPS is fixed now. Thanks again! :)
14:18:33mcuelenaereB4gder: if I try with mipsel-linux-ld it gives me a segfault too
14:18:46mcuelenaereah no srry
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14:20:07mcuelenaeredoes make cache Makefile's?
14:21:34B4gderbut the root Makefile contains info about the toolchain it uses
14:21:44mcuelenaerehmm mipsel-linux-ld gives me a segfault too..
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14:22:45mcuelenaereor I don't know who it is, mipsel-linux-gcc calls mipsel-linux-ld; right?
14:23:04mcuelenaereok then both gives segfaults
14:24:38mcuelenaereyep, double checked
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14:27:02*mcuelenaere wonders whether the configuration error at RBUtil first startup shouldn't be a configuration warning or something else more user-friendly
14:27:22*gevaerts points mcuelenaere at the svn version
14:28:02mcuelenaeregevaerts: was there a change? because I only looked at GraphicalInstall and m1.0.6
14:28:12gevaertsmcuelenaere: yes. Last night
14:29:10mcuelenaeregevaerts: ah ok, so that's what you changed :) I only skimmed through the SVN log but didn't really try to understand what I was reading I presume :)
14:29:46gevaertsmcuelenaere: yes. I made the mistake to complain about it here :)
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14:31:39mcuelenaerethen I really wasn't paying attention yesterday :) (too busy with new MIPSel targets ;) )
14:31:41Nico_Pa quick wizard could be nice
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14:35:15mcuelenaerewhat's bad about using the newest version of GCC for cross compilers? e.g. 4.3
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14:35:56B4gdertraditionally all new version bumps have caused minor hiccups we've needed to address
14:36:16B4gderbut there's nothing in particular that must go wrong
14:36:36mcuelenaereok then I'll start with 4.1
14:37:18*gevaerts warns Nico_P about that sort of comments. It can lead to work
14:38:18*mcuelenaere changes his mind, let's see what version Ingenic recommends
14:39:42mcuelenaereeither 3.3.1 or 4.1.2
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14:40:37amiconnmcuelenaere: Sometimes (read: not unlikely) newer versions produce slower and/or broken code, at least for the 3 architectures we're using for a while. And SH needs a special patch that needs to be ported
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14:41:43mcuelenaerefrom what I see not only SH needs a patch
14:42:00B4gderno, there's a few different patches needed
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14:42:45B4gderbut we can always just start with letting mips use the particular version you deem the one to use
14:42:53SynthpopQuestion can i disable refresh database on sansa c250 firmware?
14:42:55B4gders/mips/mipsel ;-)
14:43:05Nico_Pgevaerts: hehe, I guess you speak from experience ;)
14:43:27mcuelenaerefor that, I first need to learn a bit of UNIX Shell
14:43:27gevaertsNico_P: it happened to me not very long ago :)
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14:44:22kawdsis there a sleeptimer in rockbox? i can not find it
14:44:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:44:38GodEaterkawds: what target ?
14:44:46kawdsipod nano 1gen
14:45:14B4gdermcuelenaere: just add binutils="2.18" and gccver="4.1.2" before the "target=mipsel-elf" line
14:45:44B4gderthen it'll only use them for that particualr choice
14:45:50PaulJamkawds: should be in the system entry of the main menu.
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14:46:01kawdswill check asap
14:46:21mcuelenaereB4gder: ah yes, of course :) stupid me
14:46:31kawdsfound it, thx
14:46:35SynthpopI get a 9mb of DBSPACE.BIN on my sansa c250 i have database refresh off on rockbox , still it refreshes database everytime i unplug the charger
14:46:36mcuelenaereI was going to do some if (string == "mips") checking
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14:49:32Synthpopi run c250 EUROPE (No FM) - 01.01.00e for Europe without FM with rockbox.
14:50:27pixelmaSynthpop: the auto-update of Rockbox database has nothing to do with the original firmware's. Unfortunately I don't know of a way to suppress it completely unless you compile your own build with the experimental Rockbox USB stack enabled (which can have drawbacks too). But if you don't care that the original firmware doesn't find music files you can at least shorten this update
14:52:27Synthpophow i do that?
14:53:05Synthpopi mean make files undetectable to original firmware
14:53:14PaulJamSynthpop: i think there is a way to supress the database update by write protecting some files, i don't know which, though. maybe you find something in the forums.
14:53:26Synthpopoh ok
14:53:56Synthpopi was thinking overloading my player
14:54:03Synthpopwould help
14:54:29pixelmaSynthpop: set the SYSTEM directory to read only, the OF will start the update, find that it can not write to this directory and complains about "not enough space for the music db" or something like that and stop there
14:55:15pixelmathis recipe is in the forums too where I found it
14:56:50kawdsyay, played doom
14:56:59Synthpopit refreshes anyway
14:57:00kawdsbut can not quit
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14:57:50kawdshow can i quit doom= :-O
14:58:03gevaertskawds: the manual should have that info
14:58:17kawdsoff course X-)
14:59:51webguest02hi, i have been away from rockbox for about 4 years and I am having problems using it now...
15:00:12markunwebguest02: a lot has changed in 4 years..
15:00:28B4gder4 years!
15:00:54webguest02yes B4gder, I remember you.. I really want to know what version I should use that is stable enough for my archos V1R?
15:01:28B4gderyou should know that when you ask us here we'll say the latest build...
15:02:40webguest02you may laugh, but I had to go back to a daily 20030406 to get it to work how I'm used to!
15:03:41LambdaCalculus37What!? Why deny yourself all of the good stuff Rockbox has gained in the last four years?
15:03:45B4gderwell, I don't even remember that long back ;-)
15:04:09gevaertsThen I'm pretty sure that there will be some changes for you to get used to by now
15:05:43webguest02yeah I know there has been so much done since the early days, I even had to re-check that i was actually running rockbox when i first put the new version on it.
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15:08:22*gevaerts wonders if he should tell webguest02 that rockbox now also supports non-archos players ;)
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15:08:53*LambdaCalculus37 thinks we should tell webguest02 about all of the new compatible players ;)
15:09:27webguest02yeah I saw that gevaerts, but i still can't bring myself to buy an ipod, they go against everything i beleive in!
15:09:52webguest02is there any non ipod device that i should get?
15:09:58LambdaCalculus37webguest02: Gigabeat!
15:10:42PaulJamiriver H100 or H300!
15:10:54LambdaCalculus37iAudio X5, M5, or M3!
15:11:26webguest02I thought i'd be opening a can of worms with that question... i have been using a nokia 6120 with 8gb card for mp3 duties lately, but i need more space.
15:11:28Synthpophehe thanx guys
15:11:41Synthpopnot enough space please free memory :D
15:11:51Synthpopno more Refresh database =)
15:12:24webguest02wow, documentation, things hreally have moved on!!!
15:12:52LambdaCalculus37webguest02: We told you so. ;)
15:15:28webguest02LambdaCalculus3: since you brought it up, does a gigabeat have a 2.5" or 1.8" hdd?
15:15:44LambdaCalculus371.8" hard drive.
15:15:52linuxstbwebguest02: Only the Archos devices have 2.5" drives (out of supported Rockbox devices)
15:16:52markunmcuelenaere: your MIPS based player doesn't have any other processor/DSP right?
15:17:09 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
15:17:14webguest02whats the biggest 1.8" hdd available these days?
15:17:15 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
15:17:17B4gder240MHz mips should be enough for Rockbox I'd think ;-)
15:17:47GodEaterwebguest02: that's a complicated question to answer, since they come with multiple interfaces, not all of which are possible to use in current Rockbox targets
15:18:02mcuelenaeremarkun: it does have some kind of multimedia acceleration, but AFAIK those are just extra instructions
15:18:30peturwebguest02: afaik, 160GB
15:19:27 Quit MethoS_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:19:44mcuelenaereB4gder: up to 360Mhz even ;)
15:20:16B4gderright, I noticed there are two kinds
15:21:21webguest02i'm almost speachless about the excellent info you guys have in the wiki.
15:22:02GodEateralmost but not quite :)
15:22:53webguest02I will be now - im gonna go read some more now, thanks for all the help. bye.
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15:25:48mcuelenaeremarkun: the Jz4740 does have a coprocessor, the IPU which seems to be some kind of YUV->RGB convertor and other stuff
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15:29:09B4gderwell, let's hope we get some use for the AS3517 data sheet now too
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15:39:36webguest84guys, im back again with my v1r, the latest build just aint working for me...
15:39:52pondlifeIn what way?
15:40:21pondlifeDo you get the start menu displayed?
15:41:10webguest84oh ive just worked it out, now i knoow what "repeat a-b" does - doh
15:43:25 Nick Lear_ is now known as Lear (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
15:43:25linuxstbGodEater: I'm assuming you still haven't investigated optimised video playback in Linux on the PS3?
15:43:59webguest84!one more thing... is the a/c plug icon missing now?
15:44:52pixelmawhere? Do you mean in the while playing screen?
15:44:56peturnone of our targets has airconditioning...
15:45:07webguest84pixelma: yeah
15:45:22LambdaCalculus37petur: Would be nice if they did. ;)
15:45:45pondlifeLambdaCalculus37: Well there's an idea for a patch... ;)
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15:46:12LambdaCalculus37pondlife: Along with the coffee plugin and beer plugin? ;)
15:46:32pondlifeBeer, yes. Not sure about coffee though.
15:46:56pixelmawebguest84: hrmm... I thought it should work in the new default theme but had no means to test. You could try other themes/WPSs, e.g. the "rockbox default" which shows the text based one with the statusbar enabled if you didn't turn it off globally.
15:48:03pixelmadoesn't the battery icon at the bottom change if you plug in the charger?
15:48:49pixelmain the new default WPS (the graphical one) I mean
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15:49:35webguest84pixelma: im having hardware issues with my plug i think, it is very intermittant - and mostly not working, so it is hard to test just now.
15:50:18pondlifemarkun: gives an option to NOT limit seek speed. I like it (on sim at least).
15:51:11pondlifeOops, I accidentally capitalised some other english.lang stuff in there, will tidy up...
15:51:37webguest84pixelma: ok yeah, the battery symbol changes - when it temporarily made contact. thanks for the help.
15:52:13pixelmahmm, ok. Thanks for testing it too. :)
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15:53:11pondlifeDo we normally capitalise all settings? e.g. "Disable Resume On Startup If Phones Unplugged" rather than "Disable resume on startup if phones unplugged" ...
15:54:39pixelmawebguest84: I _think_ I read somewhere (forums, wiki or here) about bad solder points (especially battery contacts) being typical on the RecordersV1. Can't tell you more unfortunately.
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15:55:42webguest84pixelma: thanks, i think i have narrowed it down to the cable rather than the plug, thankfully.
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15:58:46webguest84rockbox is so cool, i love havng my v1r still perfectly usable (with 100gb hdd installed) even after what... 6 years of use!
15:59:22pondlifeAlso, still gaining new features after 6 years is pretty cool ;)
16:00:49webguest84We all need to thank archos for making such pathetic stock firmware, otherwise rockbox may never have happened.
16:01:09 Quit desowin (Excess Flood)
16:01:13pondlifeTrue, but there have been worse stock firmwares since
16:01:30 Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@atheme/member/desowin)
16:02:40GodEaterand depressingly I suspect there's still worse to come
16:03:07webguest84are you sure pondlife, the stock archos didn't even acutally work for more than 2-3 songs without crashing. and you could forget about using playlists bigger than 10 songs too!
16:03:32pondlifeYes, I had a V1R for many years...!
16:03:36*gevaerts doesn't find that depressing. The worst the OFs are, the more people who want to fix things by working on rockbox
16:03:47pondlifeI rue the day I sold it now..
16:03:51gevaertss/t/e/ in the right place...
16:05:16webguest84pondlife: how long did it take you to find rockbox after getting your stock v1r? it took me 3 days - and then only because i had to wait the weekend to go to work and look on the internet!
16:05:43pondlifeI actually bought my Recorder because of Rockbox - a friend already had it.
16:05:52pondlifeSo, I never used the OF much
16:06:12webguest843 days was way to long to use it!
16:06:17 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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16:09:47LambdaCalculus37I bought mine especially for Rockbox.
16:10:12LambdaCalculus37But I'm a bit of a latecomer with the Archos. ;)
16:13:39 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (" ajax IRC Client")
16:14:27webguest84how much is a v1r worth these days, i bet it aint anywhere near the 280 quid i forked out.
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16:15:20LambdaCalculus37Mine was under $20 USD.
16:16:16*linuxstb can't remember how much he paid, but suspects it was close to 280 GBP...
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16:18:23MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: Got your laptop today?
16:21:27LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Yep. Will test.
16:23:18pondlifeMarcGuay: Were we standardising on all settings text being capitalised?
16:24:18MarcGuaypondlife: There was a task for it and most were changed to that format. I noticed on the h300 that some are still using "sentence" style...
16:24:39pondlifeOK, I'll carry on in that direction then
16:25:11pondlife contains some (somewhat accidentally)
16:27:34*JdGordon thinks MarcGuay should stop setting "version 3.0" unless he plans to sart fixing them :p
16:27:45 Quit webguest84 ("CGI:IRC")
16:28:20MarcGuayJdGordon: I'll fix them if you provide the manual .diffs
16:28:32JdGordontouche' !
16:30:37MarcGuayJdGordon: Just following on Llorean's suggestion. I have a feeling he'll end up being the release coordinator whether he likes it or not.
16:31:15JdGordonwhat was his suggestion?
16:32:01JdGordonpixelma: (or someone with a c200)... is 9018 still/really an issue?
16:32:06MarcGuayJdGordon: Mark things that you think are important to a release as 3.0 and we'll pare the list down when it comes time.
16:33:09JdGordonyeah, ok, thats fair enough
16:33:18JdGordonI was just making a bad joke re more FS spam
16:33:30MarcGuayJdGordon: Tasty.
16:36:45pixelmaJdGordon: yes, happens to me too that the OF doesn't detect the USB connection if I insert USB and forgot to take out the card before but I don't think that Rockbox can do much about it. I suspect that it is a timing problem in the OF (which becomes more noticable with the "additional" Rockbox bootloader) because this also happens to me sometimes without the card when connecting to an old laptop with USB1.1 ports
16:37:20pondlifeMarcGuay: Re your Data Abort bug (FS #9153) - could you try Lear's buffering patch - ...
16:37:40JdGordondoes replugging the usb connector make it connect? that happens on the e200 sometimes also
16:38:05MarcGuaypondlife: It'll take a few days to say if it's working, but yes, I'll give it a go.
16:38:12pondlifeSounds very similar
16:38:22pixelmaJdGordon: not a real issue to me - because you can take the card out before or just replug (OF already started) and some people don't have that problem at all
16:38:29pixelmaso yes
16:38:54JdGordonok then
16:44:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:45:05LambdaCalculus37JdGordon: I haven't had any issues with my c240 regarding FS #9018.
16:46:45pondlifeNico_P: Could I close (audio glitch at beginning of new playlist) - it's not been happening for me for a long time now.
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16:48:42Nico_Ppondlife: you used to be able to reproduce?
16:49:01pondlifeNot sure, but I used to get a glitch at start of playback sometimes
16:49:15pondlifeIt's not happened for months now though
16:49:34pondlifeJust wondered if you still had an issue
16:50:08Nico_PI only got it when I tried, and I didn't try very often... I've never even tried on the ipod
16:50:12Nico_Plet me check
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16:59:40MarcGuaypondlife: I do use dircache and album art - that definitely sounds like the same thing.
17:02:00Nico_Ppondlife: I couldn't reproduce the glitch on the ipod
17:02:08LearMarcGuay: Can you relatively easily re-produce it? I can do it sometimes with certain tracks... If you can, I have another patch that might help (without any extra mutex locking).
17:02:16Nico_Pmaybe it still exists on the gigabeat, but I don't have mine
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17:02:21pondlifeNico_P: Feel free to close the bug then..?
17:02:43Nico_Ppondlife: I'm hesitant
17:03:08MarcGuayLear: I could never find a way to reproduce it, unfortunately. The only way to test is to use it regularly for a few days.
17:04:01pondlifeNico_P: You can always reopen it...
17:04:51LearMarcGuay: Still, sounds like it happens more often than for me. :)
17:05:19Nico_Ppondlife: you're right
17:05:33pondlifeLear, MarcGuay: If you're both running the patch, we'll get a more solid idea of fixiness...
17:08:25Nico_PLear: what's the current state of your patch? no more mutex calls?
17:09:42MarcGuayLear: Could it have something to do with the size of the files (I experience it mostly with FLAC), or the size of the album art (mine is quite large)?
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17:13:30LearMarcGuay: I've seen it with Vorbis and 120x120 album art. My guess is that it is timing sensitive somehow, but I don't know what that timing affects...
17:16:07MarcGuayLear: It definitely occurs when play is pressed during or immediately after the splash screen.
17:17:05pondlifeWhat if you set the start screen to be the WPS?
17:17:23LearMarcGuay: Hm, that could be worth trying...
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17:17:59pondlifeAnyone know where RBUtil gets the wordlist from when it creates a voice file?
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17:25:03MarcGuayAnyone with an iPod care to test the most benign patch ever?, It should fix
17:25:57MarcGuaypondlife, Lear: Try as I might I can't find a recipe for the data aborts.
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17:26:22pixelmaplease, no messing with PLA :\
17:27:01MarcGuaypixelma: Sorry?
17:28:04pondlifeThe PLA was already in there... :/
17:28:13pixelmayour patch, exceptions here and there
17:28:49MarcGuayIs pluginactions outdated?
17:29:49pixelmaon DevCon it was agreed on that if a plugin doesn't work correctly with pluginlib actions, then it should rather use normal button defines again to make it work correctly. The problem with pluginlib actions is that it introduces hidden dependencies
17:30:34MarcGuayIt's the first time I've stuck my head into the plugins. So you're saying a larger rework of the buttons is needed, not just a fix of what's already there?
17:30:49pixelmaor use the "actions" system (not pluginlib actions) but define its own, not in a library
17:33:08MarcGuaypixelma: Could you point me to an example of the right way?
17:33:23pixelmaMarcGuay: I wouldn't be surprised if your patch breaks something else or on another target, e.g did you try on e200 and Ipods (even in a sim), are you sure that "PLA_DOWN" etc. is the same on all scrollwheel targets?
17:34:19MarcGuaypixelma: Tested on the e200 and always forget the sims. I did check as much as possible, which I why I coded it that way.
17:35:22MarcGuaypixelma: See line 99 of pluginlibactions
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17:36:45MarcGuayUnfortunately if you look at line 2290 of bubbles.c, an exeption is made for the e200 which makes the whole thing rather messy.
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17:38:01gevaertsThat's why a lot of people don't like this PLA thing
17:38:13MarcGuaygevaerts: It's pretty dirty.
17:38:24pixelmabubbles was the first plugin to be _converted_ to pluginlib actions and if that doesn't work without exceptions...
17:38:39MarcGuayGood concept but clearly it's failing...
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17:56:43MarcGuaypondlife, Lear: So if I were to test a patch for the data aborts would the one posted at FS #9164 be the one to go with?
17:57:03pondlifeLear will know...
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17:59:00mcuelenaereBagder, B4gder: GCC4.1.2 doesn't compile for me, so for the moment I'm going to stick with the binaries of emdebian
17:59:19LearMarcGuay: Yes, I guess so. Though Nico_P doesn't think that much locking is needed... I don't have anything better for now (thought I had, but...).
18:00:12MarcGuayLear: Would it make sense to wait given that I'll have to use it for a few days before knowing anything?
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18:02:29doldisome people here?
18:02:49MarcGuaydoldi: 138 of us. Ask away.
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18:03:01LearMarcGuay: I'd say go ahead and test if you want. I don't know when (or if) I'll come up with anything better. It's tricky when you don't really know what the problem is. :)
18:03:14doldiHi Mark
18:03:18MarcGuayLear: But the results would still be useful?
18:03:31 Quit markun (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
18:03:35doldii have Problems with current build for archos Player
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18:03:55scorche|shdoldi: i still dont see a question/problem...
18:04:09LambdaCalculus37What is the exact problem you're having with your Archos?
18:04:13doldiif i put in the charger ther is Panic ata11 on display
18:04:14LearMarcGuay: Yes, it would say something.
18:04:40doldiwith build 2.5.1 they will work perfect
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18:05:16doldiI'm reworking 6 Players here in Germany - flashing no prob - but whats that?
18:05:31*MarcGuay knows the task list a little too well
18:07:09doldi@all - an sorry, i'm not the fastest of the world :-)
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18:07:58MarcGuaydoldi: No reason to apologize.
18:09:08doldilol, no no - i'm only think - doldi is to stupid to flash :-)))
18:09:40*pondlife is pleased we only have 18 bugs to fix before 3.0 ;)
18:10:44PaulJamif i understand correctly none of those are show stoppers.
18:11:20pondlifeWell, they're marked to be fixed before release 3.0.
18:11:36doldigreat information, thx
18:11:38pondlifeOf course, we'll whittle the list down first too.
18:12:01Nico_Ppondlife: IIRC there were 23 last time I looked... have you been closing some?
18:12:09doldicharging_lockup_partial.patch (2.7 KiB)
18:12:11MarcGuaypondlife: I've been marking stuff that falls into the "this isn't insignificant" category.
18:12:42pondlife is interesting, both my H300 and Gigabeat have recently suffered from batteries that appear to die quickly, but the OF on the H300 still works
18:12:55doldiIts right - if i install this it will helpfull?
18:13:29doldiYes of course - holding the (-) Buttom will also help on AJB
18:14:21doldiand of last: build 2.5.1 will also work an may Players and Recorders
18:16:24doldiThank you all for information, greetings from germany
18:16:40PaulJamhmm, i have seen the volume increasing by itself on my H300, but i thought this was some weird hardware issue, because it only happened with the remote connected.
18:16:50 Quit bertrik ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
18:16:59scorche|shdoldi: keep in mind that 2.5.1 is an unofficial build
18:18:32doldii know - but it works for me ;-)
18:18:59scorche|shthat may be, but we try not to discuss such things around here and keep to the official stuff
18:19:07 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
18:19:58Lloreanpondlife: Bugs marked "Due in 3.0" aren't showstoppers, just ones we'd like to call interest to (either for reproducing, documenting, or fixing). Right now, afaik, there aren't any showstoppersl
18:20:33pondlifeI didn't say there were, just that they'd been marked to look at.
18:20:52*scorche|sh reminds scorche to do some tests with the newest build to see if any playback oddness is seen
18:21:05Xerionyay my franken-h160 works :P
18:21:31Xerionbuilt from h140 and h160 parts, a new battery and a 60 GB hd :p
18:21:38Xerionerr h140 and 120 parts
18:21:41LloreanPaulJam: The volume increasing by itself on the H10 is actually a hardware flaw
18:21:55PaulJamLlorean: H300
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18:22:04LloreanPaulJam: When the power gets too low the touchpad acts erratically. In lists it'll scroll past the top, in the WPS it'll increase volume
18:22:18LloreanPaulJam: I'm suggesting your H300 is almost certainly not related to that linked flyspray task
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18:23:10PaulJamLlorean: ok, sorry. i didn't realize that this FS entry is H10 specific.
18:23:10LloreanYou may have a problem, but the H10 one is of a known cause, while yours is something different.
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18:23:35LloreanJust trying to clarify. :)
18:31:04MarcGuayWhen building a simulator it no longer asks for a simulator type. Should all references to choosing SDL be removed from the docs?
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18:39:10GalaxorHey. This isn't linux, is it?
18:39:19gevaertsno. Why?
18:39:46GalaxorI just assumed it was. So this is a totally new os?
18:40:18gevaertsFor some values of "new". Rockbox started more than 6 years ago
18:40:46GalaxorRight. Here, "new" = "from-scratch".
18:40:59gevaertsok, then yes
18:40:59scorche|shit is made "from scratch" for such purposes as a DAP firmware..."new os" goes a bit far, as i dont knwo why anyone would want to use it for something else
18:41:41GalaxorDoesn't it have to provide many of the interfaces that an os for a pc would?
18:42:01scorche|shnot sure what you are getting at there
18:42:24GalaxorI don't know. I just thought this was some linux port. Now I'm extra impressed.
18:43:00MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: I'm getting errors trying to run the sim, would you mind testing that patch? Sorry to be a PITA.
18:43:47LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Need to update my SVN trunk.
18:44:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:49:20Lloreanpondlife: With your "seeking slows down" flyspray you're kinda unclear on what's happening.
18:49:38LloreanSeeking always, for me, slows down as you approach the end of the track. It should accelerate, peak, then decelerate
18:49:56pondlifeYes that's how it normally happens.
18:50:11pondlifeThe patch adds an option to remove the deceleration
18:50:27LloreanAnd with that option on, it's broken?
18:50:39pondlifeNo, it's a new feature
18:50:45LloreanThe feature is *smooth* acceleration
18:50:48pondlifeI don't like the deceleraetion
18:51:04LloreanIt should still follow the arc, just with a gradual increase/decrease instead of large steps
18:52:10pondlifeYes, that works fine. But, I personally don't like the deceleration. I only found out that was deliberate today though.
18:52:34pondlifeThe deceleration has been in there since before smooth acceleration, IIUC.
18:53:02LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Unless you can roll a build for me with the patch applied.
18:53:16pondlifeI wanted the ability to just seek faster and faster until I released the key, that's what the patch adds.
18:53:23*LambdaCalculus37 has to recover from the shock of his Gigabeast's OF suddenly deciding to wipe his drive
18:53:50Lloreanpondlife: I was referring to your closed bug report, not opened patch. Somehow I didn't notice it was closed.
18:53:55pondlifeAh, sorry.
18:54:09pondlifeThat was me getting confused earlier.
18:54:29pondlifeThe nice new acceleration just made the deceleration even more obvious.
18:54:43LloreanYour new patch changes a LOT of unrelated language strings.
18:54:51pondlifeI know, I'll remove them
18:55:04pondlifeSee logs above - needs splitting when I get time
18:55:19pondlifeAlso needs the manual entry doing
18:56:29LloreanWithout speed limiting, getting through a very long track and still finding a point within about 5-10% of the end would be impossible, btw.
18:56:37LloreanSeeking isn't exactly meant for regular use on short files.
18:56:47MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: A VM reboot got the sim working, thanks anyway. Starting to wonder what's going on with that.
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18:57:01LloreanWell, not impossible, I guess. You could stop seeking, then re-start to throttle the acceleration
18:57:04LloreanThat'd be a hassle.
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18:57:17LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Sorry, I'm just rather miffed right now because I've now got to recover all of my music again.
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19:01:33*LambdaCalculus37 wonders where jhMikeS has been lately
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19:10:14MarcGuayHmm. Regarding my last commit, the buttons now match the background images, but it would be better if the images were changed to match those of the e200 so that 8 is Up and 2 is Down.
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19:15:39pixelmaMarcGuay: does that mean 8 and arrow up now moves down?
19:16:10MarcGuaypixelma: Yes, but that's what the background image describes.
19:16:21pixelmaI think I've been told that it was changed from that before and only the background image wasn't changed...
19:16:28MarcGuaypixelma: The fix should really be in the background image.
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19:17:00pixelmawhy isn't it then?
19:17:37*MarcGuay looks to see if the layered image files are in SVN...
19:19:06MarcGuayI only see bitmaps. Any idea who has the working copies? At least right now the background image isn't providing false instructions.
19:20:20pixelmaMarcGuay: see
19:20:22linuxstbIsn't the problem more than that? i.e. that "scroll forward" and "scroll back" are sometimes "down and up" (e.g. in lists), and sometimes "up and down" (e.g. the volume control), and sometimes "right and left"...
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19:21:40MarcGuaySeems as though every time I try to make a "small fix" it opens a can of worms.
19:21:52linuxstbMarcGuay: That's why no-one else has done them... ;)
19:22:02pondlifeThey are always clockwise and anti-clockwise (or whatever terms we decided on)...
19:22:08scorche|shMarcGuay: do tests before committing? ;)
19:23:03MarcGuayI thought I did... Grr.
19:23:19pondlifeHappens to the best of us... ;)
19:23:30amiconnMapping scrolling to buttons isn't easy
19:23:43*amiconn should have the original layered images for ipods
19:24:11shadoxxIs there a template for config-*.h somewhere?
19:24:15LloreanScrolling should be mapped ti 7 and 9 (or buttons in some way horizontal) to go with the "clockwise" "anticlockwise" rather than caring about up/down
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19:24:42MarcGuaylinuxstb: It looks like the menus and the volume are synced up.
19:24:49linuxstbshadoxx: No... Just pick an existing target that seems very similar to your device.
19:24:58amiconnYes, I have those for G3, color and nano at least. They're in .psd format
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19:25:29shadoxxlinuxstb: kk
19:25:48linuxstbshadoxx: Do you have a list of components somewhere for it? What is the LCD size/resolution?
19:25:57linuxstbI meant size/depth...
19:26:03pixelmaLlorean: 2 and 8 leaves you the possibility to use the up and down arrow keys alternatively when it's used for up and down in a list which might be the reason why it was chosen... *hopes he reads logs*
19:27:20MarcGuayamiconn: If you could throw me those files I'll see if I can find time to work on it. Any idea who might have the others?
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19:28:24amiconnI think the images weren't changed because the idea was to redo them from the .svg files
19:29:19MarcGuayamiconn: Are those available?
19:29:40MarcGuayI could grab them from the manuals.
19:29:44amiconnBut this isn't a simple conversion, as the sides of devices with buttons on those need to be drawn as side views
19:29:58amiconnThe manual/ dir is where they are.
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19:31:30amiconnThe manual build itself uses preconverted .pdf versions (pdf manual) resp. png versions (html manual) of those
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19:34:01pixelmaI drew the side buttons bigger than they would naturally be seen in a top view on purpose to avoid drawing side viewa
19:34:06pixelma*views too
19:34:56pixelmabut the 3rd and 4th gen Ipod svgs aren't nice (because I made a wrong assumption when drawing them)
19:35:48MarcGuayOn another topic: Is recording on the 3G ipods supported?
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19:40:35gevaertsI'd like to commit FS #8747 (appear as a do-nothing usb audio device), which would solve the "unknown device" dialogs for portalplayer/windows users, but the delta is pretty big: Binary size 1024 bytes, Actual size 352 bytes, and RAM usage 432 bytes (whatever those numbers may mean exactly). Any opinions ?
19:40:43gevaerts(delta measured for c200)
19:41:14amiconnHmm, no 'do-nothing' hid device instead?
19:41:35*amiconn thinks hid might be more compatible with various os'es than usb audio
19:42:21MarcGuayIt's absent from the manual and the sim but the device is apparently capable of it. I'll leave it be..
19:42:49amiconnjhMikeS or DerPapst should be able to tell
19:43:03gevaertsYou could be right.
19:43:09amiconnUnfortunately I haven't seen them for quite a while
19:46:46gevaertsamiconn: the main problem with HID is that the usb stack doesn't do interrupt transfers yet (which I think HID needs, even for dummy).
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19:48:53gevaertsAnd I won't have time for about a month to implement this, so if we want this in 3.0 (which I think is useful), and if 3.0 is pretty soon, it won't be HID.
19:49:32gevaertsOf course, maybe it's preferable to release with the current "ugly dialog" thing than with a maybe-incompatible usb audio
19:50:07*gevaerts also finds the delta a bit big for something that is right now purely cosmetic
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19:53:07amiconngevaerts: Audio needs isochronous though, doesn't it?
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19:54:06gevaertsamiconn: audio _streaming_ needs isochronous. This patch doesn't do streaming (it basically declares a speaker and a microphone connected to eachother, without any host controls)
19:54:54gevaertsMaybe the same applies to HID, but I don't know yet
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20:03:33*gevaerts is a bit worried about the fact that we don't have any signs of a release coordinator yet
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20:04:25MarcGuaypixelma: Concerning the ipod sims we have two choices right now, either revert the change and have the keys work intuitively (8=up,2=down) but have the background images give false directions or leave it and have the inverse. If there was an easy way to update the images I would, but it seems to not be the case.
20:05:16MarcGuaygevaerts: Let the RSB decide. :)
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20:06:37gevaertsWe should never have decided to start going for a release as soon as Nico_P had fixed the blocker bugs. That motivated him a bit too much, so he was too quick, and now we're in a scheduling vacuum
20:07:05Lloreangevaerts: Are you saying we should declare more blockers?
20:07:26*gevaerts likes that idea ;)
20:08:39gevaertsActually, I think we need to start thinking about getting someone to volunteer for the release coordinator job. Someone needs to make decisions about bugs
20:09:24LloreanGiving them priority, or what?
20:10:07pixelmaMarcGuay: I'd prefer the keys being intuitive slightly, there are also people who use the sim withou the background picture. The images were wrong for a long time, maybe I could look into fixing them </personal opinion>
20:10:10LloreanI kinda felt that since whether bugs will be fixed or not depends on the will of those with the appropriate knowledge of that code, we're basically not going to be able to make *too* many decisions until we get closer to the wire, and start saying "okay someone needs to disable this feature"
20:10:11gevaertsThat's the easy bit. Removing buggy features will be harder
20:10:41MarcGuaypixelma: That's fine with me. I should have consulted for the history lesson before committing. :)
20:10:44LloreanMost buggy features can be disabled by removing them from the menu and the manual method of setting via .cfg, so they just stay with their default.
20:11:04LloreanI don't think we need to remove the code, just the ability to turn them on.
20:11:11pixelmamaybe others can state their opinion too ;)
20:11:17LloreanLess other things you can accidentally break that way
20:11:20amiconnI don't think we have that many broken features which are optional, but rather we have some broken targets which are either fix-or-leave-out for a release
20:12:02*amiconn mainly thinks of power management
20:12:39*gevaerts needs to listen to the devcon recordings again
20:12:51LloreanI'm still in favour of a tiered release, with some targets as "3.0 Release" and some getting a 3.0 binary, but not being release targets (just so there's a "known good" binary for people to use who want to have one)
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20:17:27Lloreangevaerts: Another thing, actually: Before we pick a release coordinator, we should probably have an outline of what he's expected to do. People have mentioned I'll probably end up being suggested, and I'm uncomfortable with it.
20:17:37LloreanNot because I'm uncomfortable with the work, but because I have no idea what it is.
20:18:11gevaertsLlorean: True. That is indeed pretty essential
20:18:13LloreanSo far, I've just been seeing things I think needs done, and trying to get them done. Which isn't something you can do wrong, really, because there's nobody with an expectation on them, just me saying "I think this needs done" and doing it.
20:18:40LloreanIt's the same thing everyone does with the code, essentially. There's no "Playback coordinator" but Nico_P does do an awful lot of playback related work.
20:19:00LloreanThough I do an awful lot less related to the release than he does to playback.
20:19:06LloreanI just have a loud "yank" voice. :-P
20:19:48gevaertsSo how do we get this release coordinator job description going?
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20:21:00LloreanWell, there are a couple ways, I suppose.
20:21:08LloreanWe could collaborate on a wiki page for a couple days, then discuss
20:21:14MarcGuayI think the answer is in the job title, no?
20:21:22LloreanWe could put out a mail to the -dev list asking everyone what they think the duties should be.
20:21:55LloreanOr we can ask for volunteers to say what they're willing to do to help coordinate the release, and then pick someone to keep track of communication between those volunteers.
20:21:57gevaertsMarcGuay: that's the summary, but it's a bit vague
20:22:29LloreanBasically, for example, MarcGuay is more or less our "Manual Coordinator" whether he likes it or not at the moment. Or perhaps "Documentation Coordinator"
20:22:31gevaertsMaybe we should start with a wiki page detailling what needs to be done for the release
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20:22:56*gevaerts grabs an l back
20:23:02LloreanFeel free to add/modify a lot.
20:23:18LloreanI just trashed the old 3.0 stuff and added a bit of summary
20:23:43Buschelbertrik: the batterybench with your patch worked. the bench stops at 2%, therefor i'll recharge the player and start a second bench...
20:23:46MarcGuayI think that whoever feels drawn to the position of release coordinator will be capable of deciding what that job entails.
20:24:01*MarcGuay works backwards.
20:24:08*Buschel guesses betrik's bench is not the reason for the bad runtime :/
20:24:12*gevaerts will be the release coordinator, and the job entails lying on a beach
20:24:14LloreanMarcGuay: But you also think I should do it and are developing a justification for that. :-P
20:25:08pixelmaLlorean: wasn't it you who suggested a release coordinator? ;P
20:25:08MarcGuayLlorean: :) I was mostly kidding. I wouldn't ask that anyone be forced to do something.
20:25:28LloreanThat being said, I'm pretty sure we could slap the number 3.0 on a current build from the last day or two and start compiling "known issues" and still satisfy a large portion of our users.
20:25:44Lloreanpixelma: Nah, iirc Cassandra was suggested as RC last time.
20:26:05Lloreanpixelma: I just suggested that the job needs to be cutting things rather than getting things done if we really want to see a release happen.
20:27:54gevaertsYes, and cutting things (potentially) means being unpopular with some people. That's why I think it can't really be done in an ad-hoc way by whoever feels like it that day
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20:28:23*pixelma digs in the mailing list and finds a hint to a ReleasePlanning page...
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20:29:23adamgolding i have a weird ipod problem: rockbox will install and boot ok, but the OF never will−−i get a continuous boot even after doing 'restore' in itunes
20:29:41Lloreangevaerts: Well, I can handle the unpopular thing. But, like amiconn said, it may just be that we're really only cutting targets now.
20:30:00LloreanJdGordon|zzz: Note for the logs, unrelated: People seem to still be unhappy with the current time screen.
20:30:13xqtftqxGUys whats the MIPS thing do? ive bean looking and im getting mixed resaults, a assume its the Proccer Speed one?
20:30:17Lloreanadamgolding: If you've done a restore in iTunes then it's not Rockbox related.
20:30:25Lloreanxqtftqx: "proccer"?
20:30:41gevaertsxqtftqx: mips is a cpu architecture, like arm or x86
20:30:46LambdaCalculus37MIPS is another architecture.
20:30:53*LambdaCalculus37 is too slow with his enter key ;)
20:31:04xqtftqxOh, so its gonna open ports to new devices?
20:31:30scorche|shdefine "it"
20:31:32Bagderwell, since there's such a port in progress we needed the toolchain for it...
20:31:35gevaertsMore the reverse. Someone is working on a device using mips
20:31:56xqtftqxOk thanks
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20:32:47linuxstbadamgolding: So the OF boots after a restore from itunes, but then after you install Rockbox, the OF stops working? Or the OF never works?
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20:33:59amiconnLlorean: It could also work like: We're freezing now, and want 3.0 to come out in 2 weeks. If target X and target Y don't have working powermanagement by then, they won't be included in the release
20:34:31Lloreanamiconn: I think that's how it's going to work.
20:34:48adamgoldinglinuxstb OF never works
20:34:49amiconnBased today's status, G1/G2 and M3 should be excluded
20:35:00LloreanBut I still think we should make "3.0" builds for them, as ones that users can known have "decent" playback working.
20:35:07LloreanJust don't call them "3.0"
20:35:15LloreanOr don't call them "Release" or something
20:35:28amiconnX5/M5 powermgmt isn't great, but it's usable, and charging in the cowon loader works without special tricks
20:35:46gevaerts"Unsupported" would be a good term, if it wasn't already so overloaded
20:35:59adamgoldingalso, installed a hacked ipod touch firmware to my 5.5G at least booted (although it didn't appear to interface with itunes properly) but restoring OF in itunes still wouldn't boot
20:36:22LloreanI like "Beta" because at least to normal users it means "something you can try, it should be usable, but don't expect it to be perfect"
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20:38:31gevaertsI'd say a good sequence could be "freeze, decide on what gets thrown out, branch to do the throwing out cleanly (but no more), and release"
20:38:34Lloreangevaerts: For non-Sansa portalplayer targets, how comfortable would you be with USB being included, with a known issue of "USB is known to occasionally be unreliable on some HUBs or ports. If you experience problems connect to a rear-port on your PC. If you still experience problems, please reboot into the original firmware for file transfers."?
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20:40:34linuxstbLlorean: For ipods at least, I don't think there's a need for Rockbox USB - the reboot-to-diskmode works well enough.
20:40:54Lloreanlinuxstb: But people don't realize that's not part of Rockbox. As well, on the Nano it can be ridiculously slow.
20:41:22linuxstbLlorean: But it's stable... There is also the option of booting into the OF.
20:41:47linuxstbAs long as it's documented, I don't see it as being important for a release.
20:41:50gevaertsLlorean: for non-sansa, sure. For sansa, there is the SD bug, and I'm not sure how well that works with the current patch.
20:42:00Lloreangevaerts: That's why I was specific about non-Sansa
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20:42:08Lloreangevaerts: Any ideas of a good way to test that patch, btw?
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20:42:30Lloreanlinuxstb: Well, the Rockbox USB code has worked pretty reliably for my Nano. I'm curious about how widespread the problems with it are likely to be.
20:42:55linuxstbLlorean: I just don't like the idea of code that can cause filesystem corruptions being included in a release.
20:43:02Lloreanlinuxstb: it only can on Sansa.
20:43:09LloreanWhich is why I said "for non-Sansa"
20:43:19gevaertsI still want to try something though. Currently USB and SD access can happen together. I think I tried to serialize them once and that that didn't help, but I can try again
20:43:32*bluebrother uses the usb code on his mini since quite a while now
20:43:32Lloreanlinuxstb: The corruption comes from a bug in the SD driver rather than the USB code.
20:43:35linuxstbLlorean: So what does "USB is known to occasionally be unreliable on some HUBs or ports" mean?
20:44:15Lloreanlinuxstb: There are signal quality issues. You'll get device resets iiuc.
20:44:35gevaertsThere is another issue still. Sometimes rockbox doesn't see new or changed files properly after disconnect, possibly related to lack of FAT mount reset things.
20:44:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:45:03LloreanAnyway, I still think we should target the freeze at mid-august after we have a steering board and they've settled in a little.
20:45:22LloreanThat doesn't mean we need to use mid-august code though, we can work on a branch from now if things get any worse around then.
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20:48:15gevaertsSounds good to me at least
20:52:06*amiconn only uses rockbox usb sometimes, due to the resets slowing down things
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20:52:59pixelmalinuxstb: the automatic reboot works reliably on Ipods? I just wonder because it doesn't maybe half of the times I forgot to turn off my c250 before connecting to USB...
20:54:37gevaertsMaybe we should expand the c200 reboot sequence a bit : turn backlight on, show a message "rebooting. Hold power for 30 seconds if it doesn't work", and then reboot
20:54:52pixelmabluebrother: what I wanted to ask you - does the Rockbox Utility guide the Iaudio user through the bootloader installation?
20:55:05bluebrotherpixelma: I think so, but I need to check
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20:55:35pixelmaI mean the disconnecting and inserting charger that's necessary after putting the files in the correct place
20:56:18bluebrotheryes it does.
20:57:55bluebrotherok, there is a problem with that: while it gets displayed the directions get kinda drowned during small / full installation by the following messages.
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21:00:39pixelmabluebrother: I see... was asking because of this post (and I also didn't see it mentioned on the GraphicalInstall page but didn't look closely yet)
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21:02:08bluebrotherGraphicalInstall could get quite improved about this ;-) That's the reason why I directed to the manual at the end −− I mainly wanted to have a simple walkthrough for the majority of users
21:02:17bluebrotherwhich is, as far as I understand, Ipod and Sansa.
21:02:50LloreanThe H120 should have a similar issue, with the message to install the patched .hex
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21:03:02pixelmawell, the manual only deals with these details in the "manual installation" part, if I remember correctly :\
21:03:10LloreanDoes RBUtil retrieve the .hex for you from the iriver download site, or do you have to provide it manually?
21:03:37domonokyLlorean: the user has to provide it..
21:03:58bluebrotherwe need some more guiding messages during bootloader installation.
21:04:40Lloreandomonoky: Okay. Does it give a clue where to find it?
21:05:10 Quit Buschel ()
21:05:16domonokyno :-)
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21:07:01gevaertsThe wiki does. And as this is something that seems to change regularly without warning, I think the wiki is the right place for it
21:07:24gevaertsOf course rbutil could refer to that wiki page
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21:07:46LloreanYeah, that would be good I think
21:08:22LloreanAs previously someone mentioned, ideally RBUtil should be usable without reading first. I just think we shouldn't encourage it to be used that way by putting it before the documentation. :)
21:08:25pixelmabluebrother: did you also read today's logs (I think still before noon) when RBUtil on OSX was discussed?
21:08:40bluebrothernot yet. Will check them
21:09:09low_lightcan TCC77x (Sansa c100/m200) owners test my patch at FS #9096
21:09:25kushal1I have a sansa c250
21:09:57kushal1low_light, does sansa c250 have TCC77x?
21:09:57pixelmalow_light has one too (maybe it was a c240 though) ;)
21:10:02low_lightwrong cpu
21:10:11gevaertsDoes DAX apply?
21:10:20kushal1sorry for the interruption, carry on
21:10:33low_lightgevaerts: sure
21:14:14Synthpophi anyone working on xm codec?
21:16:08gevaertslow_light: you made the printf a bit too long for the dax, so I had to change it a bit. Do you want the values here, or in the tracker?
21:17:01LambdaCalculus37Synthpop: Nope.
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21:17:04low_lightactually I just wanted to know if it worked for other player ;)
21:17:28Synthpophmm mod and xm are similiar formats
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21:17:29*gevaerts gets EC D3 51 95 58
21:17:43Synthpopi guess just a matter of time before other tracker formats gets supported
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21:18:00LambdaCalculus37Synthpop: It's a matter of people working on codecs for other tracker formats.
21:18:45Synthpopyea i got alot of trackersongs that just wait for it :)
21:19:03Synthpopim making xm's
21:19:03low_lightgevaerts: 0xEC is a samsung id. Might as well post them on FS.
21:19:22low_lightLambdaCalculus37: do you still have a m200 v1?
21:19:43LloreanSynthpop: The point is this: If everyone just waits, like you, it'll never happen. Don't expect it to happen.
21:19:56LambdaCalculus37low_light: Not at the moment. I sent mine to shotofadds, and I'm getting his in return.
21:20:12gevaertsSo _someone_ has it :)
21:20:12LambdaCalculus37Mine was NAND, which he was looking for. His is Tri-Flash.
21:20:25Synthpophehe ok i guess i wont expect too much
21:20:38scorche|shlow_light: i have 2 in my possession, but they are at home
21:20:49LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: shotofadds already got it. scorche is sending me the m230 shotofadds had.
21:21:02scorche|shand i gave one of mine to Bagder (HARP)
21:21:08Synthpopim only tracking songs i do not code so i wouldn't be able to make it happen anyway
21:22:06*gevaerts thinks that the travels of this cohort of m200s are going to be even more impressive than LinusN's ipod
21:22:36low_lightok. if anyone wants to test FS #9096 can post results.
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21:29:17 Quit adamgolding ()
21:30:07amiconnLambdaCalculus37: Does that mean there are actually 3 different versions of the m200?
21:31:43LambdaCalculus37amiconn: Yep. Rev. 1/2 are NAND, Rev. 3 is HARP, and Rev. 4 is AMS.
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21:33:14shotofaddslow_light: nice work! I'll give it a try on my M240 shortly (now that I have the hardware...)
21:34:26shotofaddsI've added a short list of work to be done on the CowonD2Info page - anyone who feels like helping out should now know where to look
21:34:43shotofaddsHopefully now we have all these TCC77x devices around it'll help somewhat too
21:35:57 Join Nasty [0] (n=472013e8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:36:36NastyHey i got some questions about the rockbox software and my 80 gb Ipod classic, can somebody help me on this?
21:37:01LambdaCalculus37Yes. The answer is: Rockbox will not work on it.
21:37:51LloreanNasty: That's why it's not in the list on the front page.
21:39:02bluebrotherthat's why it's mentioned in the "not on the ..." part on the frontpage
21:39:43markunNasty: nobody has figured out how to get passed apple's encryption. An maybe we never will/
21:40:14NastySo the only difference is the encryption, right?
21:40:23 Join tucoz [0] (n=martin@rockbox/staff/tucoz)
21:40:30tucozhi guys
21:40:38 Join mirak [0] (
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21:41:13PaulJamNasty: also entirely different (and undocumented) hardware.
21:41:40LloreanNasty: The iPod Classic is basically an entirely new player, not like the other iPods at all on the inside.
21:42:09NastyI see, thanks for your help guys! :)
21:43:17 Quit Nasty ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:44:07SynthpopDon't ipods break all the time?
21:44:29Synthpopso i've heard.
21:44:30gevaertsOnly if you drop them all the time
21:44:43Synthpopwell i heard they have problems
21:44:53*gevaerts doesn't see why ipods would break more often than other players
21:45:13Synthpopthey don'tlive long enough
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21:45:40Synthpopoh ok. some tech guys at a hifi store told me that
21:45:44 Quit thegeek (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:45:48LloreanIt's probably more that iPods have more users, and thus if 1% of all players break early, a LOT more iPod users will be speaking about it than other players.
21:46:01 Join thegeek [0] (
21:46:10tucozjust what i was thinking
21:46:16Synthpopwhy did ipod get that many users anyway`?
21:46:22LloreanDoesn't matter here.
21:46:57Synthpopgotta run guys happy coding
21:47:00 Part Synthpop
21:47:01tucozmarketing, and that they keep releasing new players branded ipod i guess
21:47:16 Quit hannesd ("Client suicide")
21:48:32kushal_12_27_200so, anyone from last night, was there a problem with the mac os x version of rbutil (dmg) or was it just me?
21:49:06tucozIs there a date set for the documentation clean-up weak?
21:49:36pixelmahey tucoz, long time... :)
21:50:01Lloreantucoz: Not yet. Sometimes soon though.
21:51:00tucozpixelma: hi. yeah, it's been ages.
21:51:13 Quit delorean90 ()
21:51:54 Nick dxl is now known as svens (
21:52:15tucozi follow the development, but haven't used my player for ages.
21:53:39tucozLlorean: ok. hopefully i will be able to help out there, if it doesn't interfere with my vacation...
21:54:04 Join Kinky [0] (
21:54:22tucozI would really like to see a 3.0 manual to follow the upcoming 3.0 release
21:54:22Lloreantucoz: I'd like to see it no later than either the week of the 20th or maybe the 27th, just because we also need to do a tracker cleanup, and prepare for the feature freeze. There's a lot on the table right now
21:55:54gevaertsLlorean: maybe it would be a good idea to put those dates on the wiki somewhere
21:55:57kushal_12_27_200rbutilqt 1.0.6 is not working on my macbook 10.4.11 Any ideas?
21:56:12Kinkymine either and thats why I came here
21:56:12*gevaerts expects to be told on what page they have already been for more than a wekk
21:56:36Lloreangevaerts: I don't think they're put anywhere. I just picked them based on "I'd like it done by the end of the month, if possible"
21:57:08Lloreankushal_12_27_200: Have you filed a bug report, documenting what doesn't work, what happens, and what type of processor your mac has?
21:57:10 Join GodEater_ [0] (n=ge@rockbox/staff/GodEater)
21:57:17KinkyI was really hoping for some help.... I just got my e280r and can't for the life of me get rockbox installed
21:57:40KinkyI'm not convinced yet that it's my mac, I am leaning more toward user error haha
21:58:14kushal_12_27_200Intel processor, I came here for followup. I was talking to JdGordon (who appears asleep now) when I got kicked off the Internet
21:58:40Lloreankushal_12_27_200: I didn't ask what processor you had. I asked that you include that information in a properly filed bug report.
21:58:49LloreanKinky: What happens with you?
21:58:58 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (" ajax IRC Client")
21:59:27KinkyI have gone thru all the steps listed on the install and such for the R model and I still boot into the regular software, not rockbox
21:59:35Kinkyi've tried it on my mac as well as vista
21:59:40tucozkushal_12_27_200: it says on that e200r isn't supported by rbutil. not sure if your player falls under that category
21:59:42Kinkygot the same thing both times
22:00:18kushal_12_27_200well, I mounted rbutilqt and opened the app, but the app itself does not open
22:00:52Lloreankushal_12_27_200: File a bug report, please.
22:01:09LloreanDescribe everything, in detail, so that when the people who actually work on RBUtil are around they can read about it.
22:01:10*domonoky is sorry for the non-working rbutil mac version..
22:01:16kushal_12_27_200at least one other person said that it works on his/her tiger (10.4, which is what I have) so I am unsure if it is missing lib .... ok I will file it
22:01:22gevaertsKinky: you can still install rockbox, but not using rbutil
22:01:38KinkyI have leopard, I'm going to mount it again and see what happens there, just for the other one needing info
22:01:49bluebrotherhello tucoz :)
22:01:52Kinkygevaerts: I tried it manually too
22:01:55tucozhi bluebrother :D
22:01:56domonokycould you try a older rbutil macosx version ? ie 1.0.5 ?
22:02:05bluebrotherkushal_12_27_200: are you able building it yourself?
22:02:12bluebrothertucoz: nice to see you again
22:02:43kushal_12_27_200I don't have the compiler, bluebrother, but I will download it if someone walks me through the process
22:02:48gevaertsKinky: did you follow the instructions at ?
22:03:00tucozbluebrother: nice to see you too. great work on rbutil.
22:03:02pixelmaLlorean, kushal1: it's been discussed earlier in the day and JdGordon|zzz had some ideas - his last was
22:03:12 Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat")
22:03:16domonokythe non-working rbutil-mac version is my fault... :-/ but i am struggling to build a correct one..
22:03:33*bluebrother finally goes reading those logs
22:03:50domonokykushal_12_27_200: please try the rbutil_m1.0.5 version, and tell me if this one works ..
22:03:58Kinkyit opens on my mac kushal1
22:04:15kushal_12_27_200kinky, do you have the libutil?
22:04:30domonokythe problem is libusb..
22:04:33kushal_12_27_200I mean some libraries that may be missing on the dmg
22:04:33Kinkyprobably, I have fink, fuse, and a few others already installed
22:04:51pixelmadomonoky: already did - scroll up a bit from the point I linked to
22:05:21 Join doldi [0] (n=5b13a1b7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:05:22Kinkyand yes, I followed that page of the wiki
22:05:36 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
22:05:36Kinkyand it still boots to rapsody
22:05:39kushal_12_27_200I tried it yesterday, domonoky. it did not work
22:05:44 Join Strangelet [0] (n=nicholas@
22:06:02bluebrotherkushal_12_27_200: I think m1.0.4 should be build "better". Have you tried that?
22:06:20kushal_12_27_200I have not built anything
22:06:27Kinkyrhapsody and paly for sure are still the only things listed in "mode"
22:06:29domonokyoki, so i need to somehow findout how to correctly build a universal static lib of libusb on mac.. .-/
22:06:33Kinkyand it boots to rhapsody
22:06:48kushal_12_27_200let me try 1.0.4
22:07:04StrangeletI am using an iPod 4th gen grayscale. Rockbox has a tendency to be a bit 'laggy' when selecting songs. Is this a disorder? Or simply an issue that hasn't yet been fixed by the devs.?
22:07:10KinkyI'm wondering if I did it on linux if it would work
22:07:41gevaertsStrangelet: you could try enabling dircache (if I understand the problem correctly)
22:07:43kushal_12_27_200If I am the only person with problem with the dmg, its probably something I got wrong
22:07:53Kinkytry redownloading it
22:07:56Kinkymaybe it was corrupted
22:07:59Strangeletgevaerts: dircache? What is that?
22:08:23domonokykushal_12_27_200: is your mac a ppc or a intel ?
22:08:33KinkyIt frustrates me haha, I can build a computer from scratch, and yet can't get rockbox to install correctly..... thats why I'm sure it's user error
22:08:36bluebrotherStrangelet: it caches the directory structure in RAM which makes browsing much faster if your player has a slow hard disk
22:08:48gevaertsStrangelet: Settings->General Settings->System->Disk->Directory Cache
22:09:00kushal_12_27_200domonoky, sorry for late response. it is an intel macbook with 10.4.11
22:09:02Strangeletgevaerts, bluebrother, thank you both. :)
22:09:44bluebrotherdomonoky: is there an ldd equivalent on mac to check the libraries it's linked again?
22:09:52KinkyI was able to get the correct files transferred to the sansa because my version dropped from the current one to and before the install it was higher than that
22:10:24 Quit doldi ("CGI:IRC")
22:10:40Kinkywhen I used the patcher it says it's done and correct, but each time I boot it's still rhapsody
22:10:49 Join BdN3504 [0] (n=55b23b9d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:11:04domonokybluebrother: i dont know, i only have remote access to a mac to build rbutil, so i can even try rbutil on the mac :-)
22:11:09gevaertsKinky: did you follow Step 2?
22:11:11domonokys/can/can not/
22:11:17Kinkyyes totally to the end
22:11:24Kinkyand it even reboots after I disconnect the usb
22:11:27 Join m0f0x_ [0] (
22:11:32Kinkybut still boots into the old software
22:11:43bluebrotherdomonoky: on linux there's "ldd" which simply prints the libraries a binary is linked with. No need for GUI access ;-)
22:11:49 Quit BdN3504 (Client Quit)
22:12:02bluebrotherit's quite helpful to check if libusb has been linked statically or not.
22:12:25Strangeletgevaerts: The dircache has removed the lag while in the 'Now Playing' screen. Though, lag still exists when browsing the database. Is there a cure for that? :P
22:12:39shotofaddsgevaerts: could you possibly try my updated patch in fs#9096?
22:12:45bluebrotherStrangelet: load the database to RAM
22:12:59bluebrotherit's documented in the manual (and IIRC also in the FAQ)
22:13:03gevaertsStrangelet: try Settings->General Settings->Database->Load to RAM
22:13:40KinkyI have also tried by updating the sansa to the current firmware on the sansa site
22:13:43Kinkyto no avail
22:13:49gevaertsKinky: unfortunately I've never done an e200r install myself, so I can't really help morew
22:14:27 Quit SirFunk__ ("Ex-Chat")
22:14:46Kinkyme either :(
22:14:53 Join SirFunk__ [0] (
22:15:09 Join BdN3504 [0] (n=55b23b9d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:15:17 Quit dabujo ("( :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: )")
22:16:38BdN3504hey, i'm using vmware to compile and am able to create working builds for my targets. Now i want to create a simulator, but i don't understand how to do that...
22:17:17gevaertsshotofadds: that patch doesn't apply cleanly
22:17:55shotofaddsgah, forgot the "svn up" first :/
22:18:07BdN3504i want to create a standalone simulator for windows xp. i read about it here
22:18:49bluebrotherBdN3504: you need to cross-compile for windows then. I don't think the vmware image contains the w32 cross compiler
22:18:50*gevaerts blames MarcGuayAway for all this
22:19:26bluebrotherit might be much easier to build the sim on cygwin
22:20:05shotofaddsgevaerts: try again. that hunk was only there cos of the damn tabs...
22:20:20BdN3504when i try this i get the error: configure: error:
22:20:23BdN3504*** Your compiler (gcc) does not produce Win32 executables!
22:20:36bluebrotherkushal_12_27_200: does 1.0.4 work for you?
22:20:53 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:21:04 Quit crope` ("Leaving")
22:21:11BdN3504where do i get such a cross compiler? is there an image already containing one?
22:21:20bluebrotherBdN3504: as I said, I don't think the vmware image contains the needed compiler. Check this line: You will need the Mingw32 compiler environment
22:21:22amiconnbluebrother: Mine does. I wonder whether scorche got anywhere with it
22:21:37gevaertsshotofadds: that works
22:21:47bluebrotheramiconn: so that's not the one we officially distribute?
22:21:57bluebrotherBdN3504: check apt-get
22:22:06shotofaddssome of the code in lowlight's patch looks a bit .. suspicious
22:22:11amiconnbluebrother, BdN3504: You need both the mingw32 crosscompiler, and sdl for mingw32. If you have both it's pretty easy
22:22:39amiconnbluebrother: No, it's the one I prepared for devcon,
22:22:57amiconnIt might be a bit big for distribution
22:23:06 Quit m0f0x (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:23:45BdN3504i'm a complete linux noob and have succeeded only because i followed the step by step...
22:24:16BdN3504how do i get the mingw32 crosscompiler?
22:24:30 Join ender1 [0] (
22:24:42 Quit ender` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:24:49domonokybluebrother: otool -L show that current rbutil mac uses lib usb as a shared lib :-/
22:25:13bluebrotherdomonoky: sounds like this is not what you want it to be ...
22:25:16 Join homielowe [0] (
22:25:18tucozsee you later
22:25:20 Part tucoz ("Ex-Chat")
22:26:23BdN3504maybe i'm in the wrong place for my problem, can you suggest any other place where somebody could help me?
22:27:24bluebrotherBdN3504: google for apt-get, and try "apt-cache search mingw" or similar
22:27:51bluebrotherI _think_ it should be possible installing the missing packets that way.
22:29:24 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
22:30:01Kinkyok I think I may have discovered something by total accident
22:30:29Kinkywhen I have the sansa locked, and plugged in the usb cable, I inadvertantly had my thumb on the record button and that put it into the usb mode!
22:30:54Kinkyit's telling me on the lcd that it's the recovery mode however I have no idea what to do with it from here haha
22:31:10domonokyhm, so how can i force rbutil to link to the static lib of libusb. ld on mac doesnt know -Bstatic
22:32:19 Join bughunter2 [0] (n=Jelle@
22:32:33Kinkyoo I just found this for you domonoky
22:32:45Kinkygo down to the part about mac
22:32:46bluebrotherdomonoky: check the older revisions of I simply added it as link object earlier.
22:33:00bluebrotherKinky: he knows about that ... he's one of the devs of rbutil
22:33:07Kinkyhaha sorry
22:33:13*Kinky is newwwwwwwb
22:34:02BdN3504i tried this user@debian:~$ apt-get install mingw32
22:34:14BdN3504and get this: E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13 Permission denied)
22:34:29gevaertsBdN3504: try "sudo apt-get install mingw32"
22:34:42shadoxxlinuxstb: yesterday you talked about connecting my YH-820's HD to my PC. Any ideas on how I would do that?
22:34:43 Quit stoffel ("leaving")
22:35:33linuxstbshadoxx: No... You would need to investigate what interface it's using, and try and buy/build some kind of adapter. Do you know the model number of the drive?
22:35:45shadoxxyeah. ST650211CF
22:37:23linuxstbshadoxx: Ah, so a CF interface...
22:37:26BdN3504when i try this: user@debian:/$ sudo apt-get install mingw32
22:37:28shadoxxOh crap. Look at that
22:37:40BdN3504i get this -bash: sudo: command not found
22:37:55shadoxxlinuxstb: there was a little adapter on it that let it connect to the yh-820's motherboard
22:38:05shadoxxi pulled it off
22:38:16*bluebrother notices that wavtrim.c uses CamelCase :/
22:38:28bluebrotherBdN3504: try "su -"
22:38:53linuxstbshadoxx: Would be interesting to try higher capacity cards...
22:39:06shadoxxlinuxstb: very. :D this is turning into something fun.
22:39:31BdN3504no wait
22:39:34linuxstbshadoxx: Do you have a CF adapter for your PC?
22:39:35bluebrotherI highly dount this
22:40:00shadoxxlinuxstb: I've done some embedded device hacking. i have a mini itx system that just so happens to take CF
22:40:08shadoxxI'm checking right now to see if it'll just slip right in
22:40:25shadoxxand it will
22:40:48shadoxxGod I love technology.
22:41:18BdN3504installing that crosscompiler right now i think... but i don't understand what it says on the wiki
22:41:22 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
22:41:26BdN3504./configure −−host=i586-mingw32msvc −−prefix=${HOME}/mingw32-sdl
22:41:37BdN3504You can change the argument to −−prefix to wherever you want the mingw32 version of SDL installed, but you really should set a prefix, since the sdl-config will overwrite your native sdl-config otherwise
22:41:43BdN3504what does that mean?
22:42:10*amiconn put it under /opt
22:42:38bluebrotheryou can leave it that way, but you really should use −−prefix in the configure run
22:44:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:44:48BdN3504first of all, in which directory should i execute these commands? does that matter? i executed the apt-get command in under this input: debian:/# apt-get install mingw32
22:45:01BdN3504should i change to the rockbox directory?
22:46:01gevaertsBdN3504: that configure line has some context on the wiki
22:46:39shadoxxlinuxstb: I just realized though. The MP3 player still boots even if it doesn't have a HD in it. It just says that it couldn't initialize the HD and shuts off. I'll see what putting it in my embedded system does though
22:47:13linuxstbshadoxx: That will be an error from the bootloader (stored in flash ROM). That bootloader will load the mi4 file from somewhere on the hard disk.
22:47:15gevaertsBdN3504: or did you mean that entire block?
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22:47:41domonokybluebrother: now rbutil wants to link against the static libusb but ld errors: Undefined symbols: "_strerror$UNIX2003", referenced from: _usb_strerror in libusb.a(error.o) :-/
22:47:52BdN3504i mean the two lines i just posted
22:48:12kushal_12_27_200bluebrother, I had to run off for a bit. yes, 1.0.4 does work for me
22:48:18BdN3504is {HOME} just a placeholder?
22:48:18linuxstbshadoxx: If I was you (and you have enough disk space), I would make a full backup now of your card - i.e. "dd if=/dev/sdX of=backup.bin"
22:48:32bluebrotherdomonoky: on linux I just build libusb and put libusb.a in the rbutilqt folder. Not much of idea on mac ...
22:48:46shadoxxlinuxstb: thanks. will do
22:48:56bluebrotherkushal_12_27_200: ok, nice to know. Then libusb seems to be at least the main issue
22:49:29gevaertsBdN3504: ${HOME} is an environment variable that expands to your home directory. By the way, there is no need to do these steps as root, so if you still are root (# prompt), type exit first
22:50:36gevaertsBdN3504: then just go to your home directory, and follow the steps exactly, starting from the wget command
22:50:48BdN3504ok thanks i will try
22:50:53*gevaerts apologizes to Bagder. Someone else put that wget there
22:51:13shadoxxlinuxstb: and putting that card in my pc returned a dma timeout
22:51:34 Quit davina ("GNU/Linux the free alternative to Windows")
22:51:42gevaertsshadoxx: can you turn off dma? Maybe it's a bios setting
22:51:53shadoxxvery true
22:52:02shadoxxi could boot my kernel nodma
22:52:16linuxstbhdparm may help as well.
22:52:21gevaertsthat too. After all, you don't need performance here
22:53:11 Join sitwon [0] (
22:53:25BdN3504i get all kinds of permission denied messages when i try it now...
22:53:30kushal_12_27_200bluebrother, have there been other cases about it? Do I need to file a bug report? is there already a byg report about it?
22:53:55gevaertsBdN3504: what is the output if you type "pwd" ?
22:54:01 Quit ender1 (" I will not turn into a snake. It never helps. -- Evil Overlord List #34")
22:54:56BdN3504user@debian:/$ pwd
22:55:14BdN3504it is /
22:55:49shadoxxOk, disabled UDMA in my bios. now it should only try PIO mode
22:55:50gevaertsOK. Then first type "cd", without any arguments. That should take you to your home directory. Then try the wiki steps again
22:56:18bluebrotherkushal_12_27_200: I think domonoky is aware of it ;-)
22:56:37shadoxxAnd I'm still getting dma timeouts.
22:57:04gevaertsThen I'd say try the hdparm way
22:57:41kushal_12_27_200bluebrother, there should not be much difference in the way linux and os x work. they are both Unix[-like], aren
22:57:49kushal_12_27_200't they?
22:58:20gevaertskushal_12_27_200: as far as I know the only problem is one of these few spots where they are different]
22:58:44shadoxxwin. passing hdc=nodma to the kernel allowed it to be detected
22:58:51 Join markun_ [0] (
22:58:53bluebrotherthe problem is that they aren't the same ;-)
22:59:10shadoxxNo. nvm. It's still saying dma timeout error. status=0x58
23:00:13 Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
23:00:18gevaertsBdN3504: any specific reason to not use the sims from"> ?
23:01:32BdN3504i want to make a sim for my own build
23:01:54BdN3504or is there a way to include patches to rasher's sims?
23:02:13gevaertsNo. I just wanted to be sure that you were aware of them
23:02:19BdN3504all goes well until now... thank you. but what does this mean? Now, just compile as normal, with the path to the mingw32 sdl-config in your path:
23:03:12BdN3504PATH=${HOME}/mingw32-sdl/bin:${PATH} ../tools/configure
23:03:17gevaertsWhat it says :) Just go to your rockbox source tree, and run configure with exactly that line
23:03:27 Join ender` [0] (
23:03:30 Quit markun (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:03:41 Quit midgey ()
23:03:46 Nick markun_ is now known as markun (
23:04:23BdN3504excuse my dumb question but: with what line?
23:04:34gevaertsThe line you quoted
23:05:05shadoxxlinuxstb: looks like all this for nothing. boot rom isn't stored on a hidden place on the hd. still only 1 partition
23:05:06 Quit kushal1 (Remote closed the connection)
23:06:27kushal_12_27_200what does mean in ?
23:07:27 Quit krz (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:07:32linuxstbshadoxx: Does that partition cover the entire geometry of the disk?
23:07:38BdN3504ahahaha! but i now choose sim, not normal in the configure tool, right?
23:07:53bluebrotherkushal_12_27_200: an improvement
23:08:10shadoxxlinuxstb: well, it only lists /dev/hdc
23:08:17shadoxxno /dev/hdc1
23:08:42linuxstbshadoxx: Have you tried mounting /dev/hdc?
23:08:48gevaertsDid you check for hidden files ?
23:08:50BdN3504does the '&&' in 'make && make install' mean that these commands are exe
23:08:58BdN3504cuted one after another?
23:09:10scorche|shBdN3504: didnt we send you off to go look at a basic linux tutorial last time?
23:09:15gevaertsIt means that the second one is executed if the first one succeeded
23:09:19bluebrotherno. The second one only gets executed if the first succeds
23:10:13shadoxxlinuxstb: yeah. it's the same listing as when I plug it in via usb with the mp3 player.
23:10:24kushal_12_27_200does anyone here have write access to ? if so please change "updateing" in m1.0.6 to "updating" thanks
23:10:25BdN3504ok thanks alot, i think you already told me to make myself familiar with linux basics... but i'm a bit lazy/busy (depends on how you look at it)
23:11:07LloreanBdN3504: I don't understand how you being lazy means other people should spend their time instead. Just take what little time you have, and eventually it'll add up to enough.
23:11:16domonokykushal_12_27_200: could you please try this version of rbutil ?">
23:11:41linuxstbshadoxx: I don't know anything about FAT filesystems, but I'm guessing it might be possible for the filesystem to not cover the entire drive. i.e. leaving some unused space at the end...
23:11:59shadoxxmost definately. that's what I'm about to check, since you mentioned it. :)
23:12:02kushal_12_27_200dang, its fast, 400 KiB per second and increasing
23:12:18kushal_12_27_200:( it slowed down
23:12:20 Quit Mathiasdm ("Yuuw!")
23:12:24gevaertsshadoxx: I would suggest dd-ing the entire disk to somewhere, and working on the image. Nothing like being sure :)
23:13:15 Quit BdN3504 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:15:10kushal_12_27_200domonoky, once it finishes downloading, all I have to do is mount it and open the app, right?
23:15:37domonokyjup, try to open the app :-) i hope it works now :-)
23:17:03 Quit gevaerts ("Changing server")
23:18:11 Join BdN3504 [0] (n=55b23b9d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:19:00 Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
23:19:29 Nick MarcGuayAway is now known as MarcGuay (
23:19:32BdN3504Sorry, but i'll have to bother you one last time: i get 'zip error: Internal logic error (incorrect compressed size)'
23:20:00BdN3504unzip: cannot find or open ../, ../ or ../
23:20:09BdN3504make: *** [install] Error 9
23:20:13MarcGuaygevaerts: What are you blaming on me? I was Away, I couldn't possibly have done anything. :)
23:20:18BdN3504upon running make install
23:20:38linuxstbBdN3504: Did you get any other errors before that?
23:21:12MarcGuaylinuxstb: From several hours ago, I just realized what you meant by up-down in the menus being different from volume up-down, and I retract my "they're synced". Going for walks occasionally is useful.
23:21:17BdN3504actually i see that now, yes: cp: writing `.rockbox/rocks/wav2wv.rock': No space left on device
23:21:20gevaertsMarcGuay: You committed some changes to telechips.c while updating the manual. That broke some people's test patches (fixed now)
23:21:44BdN3504how do i give the vm more space?
23:21:51MarcGuaygevaerts: Arr. I suck. Next time = more careful.
23:21:59gevaertsBdN3504: you need to free up some space. I would suggest to remove the sdl build directory and source tarball
23:22:11kushal_12_27_200the jdgordon file doesn
23:22:17kushal_12_27_200doesn't open either
23:23:34MarcGuayLear: I got a "Undefined Instruction" error when trying to reproduce the data aborts. Not sure how helpful it is, but it happened after pressing play twice quickly on the splash screen.
23:24:03linuxstbMarcGuay: I like to do "svn diff" right before an "svn commit" - a sort of preview of what will be committed...
23:24:26gevaertsOr even "svn diff|diffstat|
23:24:55MarcGuaylinuxstb: I'm getting in the habit of doing "svn commit" with no parameters to see which files will be changed.
23:25:21LloreanI just do "svn st" to see which files are changed.
23:25:25*gevaerts <3 diffstat
23:25:44linuxstbMarcGuay: "svn diff" is also useful for spotting things like inadvertant whitespace changes, or leftover debug code.
23:26:14MarcGuaylinuxstb: And haven't done much with the c100 port while you were gone, by the way. I tried to find the shutdown routine but came up empty.
23:26:20BdN3504thank you very much gevaerts, everything worked.
23:26:21MarcGuayThanks for the tips everyone.
23:26:47 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
23:26:54bluebrothercolorsvn is also a great filter script. Makes the output much nicer to spot issues
23:27:24 Quit mcuelenaere ()
23:27:42BagderI do "svn st -q" first
23:27:47Bagderthen svn diff to see the specifics
23:27:53linuxstbBagder: Will the voting for the RSB be ranked? e.g. a voter assigning points from 1-5 for each of their votes?
23:28:24scorche|shlinuxstb: we said no to that at devcon
23:28:43scorche|sheach will be an equal vote and then the votes will just be tallied
23:29:02BagderI'm open for suggestions, but we discussed simply 1 point each to the 5 people you'd like
23:29:07LloreanThough we should establish a tie-breaker plan in advance.
23:29:20scorche|shLlorean: i am willing to cross that bridge if we get there
23:29:26 Quit low_light (" ajax IRC Client")
23:29:35scorche|sha "vote-off" would be simple enough
23:30:00linuxstbHmm, I would have preferred some way to say that I want person X a lot more than person Y...
23:30:13Lloreanlinuxstb: Easy, don't vote for person Y.
23:30:26 Quit alleyoopster (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:30:32linuxstbLlorean: And that I want person Y more than everyone else...
23:30:37LloreanThe steering board is going to have 5 people, so you vote for the five people you most want on it. If there's less than five, vote for less than 5.
23:30:45 Quit bughunter2 ("bye")
23:31:58 Quit BdN3504 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:32:06LloreanIf votes were weighted, three "want mosts" could outweigh five "want leasts" so even if someone had more votes from individuals, they'd still fall behind someone else who had less people on the count. That seems like it'd be problematic.
23:32:15LloreanAnd if weighted votes *aren't* worth more votes, then they don't matter.
23:32:53linuxstbThat sounds fair to me though - three "want mosts" outweighing five "want leasts"....
23:33:45Bagderthen there's of course the question of how much more to weigh #1 compared to #5
23:33:50LloreanThe person with five want leasts represents the overall views of five people, though.
23:34:05zesounds like they'd need a numerical value to make sense
23:34:25 Quit sitwon ("Leaving")
23:35:06Bagderor, you can get 15 points to split on 5 people...
23:35:14LloreanOr 5 points to split on 5 or less people.
23:35:17 Quit axionix (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:35:51gevaertsI don't really like most of those ideas. If we do ranking, I want to be able to vote _against_ someone, otherwise I think I prefer 5 equal votes
23:35:51LloreanSo that if you want to boost someone beyond the average amount, you have to sacrifice the number you can vote for.
23:36:19MarcGuayI got an email from someone asking me "How can I join the developers group? What does it gives me? Will I be able to commit fixes by myself then?". Is there a standard response for this?
23:36:22Lloreangevaerts: Five equal votes where more than one of those votes can go to the same person is a meeting halfway of the two ideas.
23:36:26 Join stripwax [0] (
23:36:58zehow about you just rate each and every candidate from 1 to 10
23:37:01LloreanMarcGuay: "Committers are chose based on their overall contributions. Submit good patches to the tracker, and be active in the development community and you'll get noticed" I think
23:37:22*scorche|sh deletes his comment saying pretty much the same
23:37:31MarcGuayLlorean: Sounds good. He also wanted me to consider his patch @, which I am doing right now.
23:37:33*Bagder cut out a comment saying the same, only less good
23:38:54Bagderbut the answer to the last question would be "yes" ;-)
23:38:55gevaertsLlorean: I'm not convinced. Let's have the RSB decide on this
23:39:03MarcGuaySeems useful and harmless. Should be made universal before committing, though.
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23:39:20*gevaerts spots an error in his reasoning
23:39:21linuxstbgevaerts: Or a vote on how the vote will work...
23:39:25Lloreangevaerts: Hah. Maybe "5 votes, any of which can either be for or against a candidate, and there is no restriction that they have to be for unique candidates" just to make the numbers even more confusing. :-P
23:39:42*MarcGuay loves bureaucracy.
23:39:44*domonoky wants negativ numbers :-)
23:39:46*linuxstb prepares to nominate his voting systems
23:40:10MarcGuaySorry, "democracy".
23:40:10stripwaxThat's only fair, vote for the voting system first
23:40:11scorche|shlets just not have the voting systems be electronic diebold machines
23:40:18gevaertsI wouldn't spend too much time working out voting systems. There are enough of them around, so no need to make up our own :)
23:40:19MarcGuayscorche: zing!
23:40:20*scorche|sh glares at Bagder suspiciously
23:40:25zehow about each candidate gets rated -3 to +3 and the top scores win :p
23:40:41*linuxstb reads
23:41:04*gevaerts helps adding to wikipedia's logfiles
23:41:13*Bagder joins in
23:41:24 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:41:28scorche|shze: i have a better about we just do things as we decided at devcon! ;)
23:41:38zescorche|sh: :p
23:41:52shotofaddsscorche|sh: you have a HARP m200, right? when you get a chance could you maybe try fs#9096 - just for confirmation that we actually can't read the NAND directly.
23:41:58gevaertsThe devcon people where not elected!
23:42:18*gevaerts hopes that nobody will spot that h :(
23:42:57scorche|shshotofadds: yes...i will see about it after i get home and do some cleaning up/unpacking
23:43:06scorche|shalthough i did give one to Bagder as well ;)
23:44:38 Join midgey [0] (
23:44:47*linuxstb likes the look of and wishes Bagder luck in administering it ;)
23:45:25*gevaerts points out that that is a single-winner voting system
23:45:42Bagderthe winner picks the other 4? ;-P
23:45:55*bluebrother thinks this is getting too complicated
23:46:13Bagderit got too complicated 15 minutes ago
23:46:34linuxstbgevaerts: And then we do it again for #2...
23:46:54*linuxstb gives up and accepts the devcon propsal
23:47:56 Part Kinky
23:48:26shotofaddsscorche|sh: sure. i'm just trying to work out whether we really did need to swap those m200s...
23:50:38kushal_12_27_200 Apple wants me to update the software. It will require me to restart the computer.
23:51:33scorche|shkushal_12_27_200: ...and what about that is relevant in here?
23:51:56kushal_12_27_200oops, sorry wrong channel
23:52:16*gevaerts decides to stop reading up about voting systems, and hopes that he will be able to access his mail regularly so he can actually vote
23:52:30 Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]")
23:52:37MarcGuayLlorean: From a few days ago - There is no keyclick when recording starts and stops (H300), but it would be a good idea.
23:52:42 Join Zarggg [0] (
23:53:13MarcGuayLlorean: That blind user on the mailing list could obviously use such a feature.
23:54:21MarcGuayshotofadds: My c100 is showing 0x00 values for the NAND. Have I missed something?
23:56:09 Quit bughunter2 ("bye")
23:56:25 Join nicktastique [0] (n=nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic)
23:56:41*petur looks at his bankaccount and wonders what tockbox travel expenses are :)
23:57:21*gevaerts recommends complaining to zagor about not having received anything for rockbox expenses :)

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