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#rockbox log for 2008-07-14

00:00:08LinuxMafiaany one has any idea?
00:00:30LambdaCalculus37I ran on my PowerBook to get a build environment set up, and by instinct select 'all' to set up all of the needed compilers.
00:01:02scorcheLinuxMafia: which ipod nano version is it?
00:01:23LambdaCalculus37I know that MIPS was added recently to support the Onda players and required environment, but it seems that some little bits of needed information are still not in regarding PATH setup.
00:01:30LinuxMafiascorche, to be honest with you i dont know
00:01:42LambdaCalculus37So what's the path to the MIPS compiler so I can add it into my $PATH?
00:01:52scorcheLinuxMafia: could you find an image for us on google image search of what your ipod nano looks like?
00:02:02scorchethere are different versions of those devices
00:02:13BagderLambdaCalculus37: the MIPS one is not yet included in the all build
00:02:14LambdaCalculus37LinuxMafia: Three versions, as a matter of fact.
00:02:23d1sturbIs it possible to add a visualizer to the WPS [i.e. G-Force] ?
00:02:37LinuxMafiasure just a sec
00:03:30safetydand1sturb: no
00:03:39LambdaCalculus37Bagder: Ahh, got it. But there's a small problem... I just tried compiling a Gigabeat S build, and got this:
00:03:45LambdaCalculus37Any ideas?
00:03:54d1sturb•safetydan• k, thanks
00:04:02LinuxMafiabut it is silver
00:04:15d1sturbthat's gen 2
00:04:21LambdaCalculus37LinuxMafia: 2nd gen nano... won't work.
00:04:39BagderLambdaCalculus37: hm, I think that's some missing stuff on your computer or similar
00:04:43 Quit d1sturb ("—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 3515")
00:04:43LinuxMafiabut any one knows why when i connect it to pc nothing comes up?
00:05:10LinuxMafiais there any setting i have to change in it?
00:05:12scorcheLinuxMafia: this is #rockbox...where we talking about (surprisingly) rockbox related items...your query doesnt really have anything to do with rockbox
00:05:29LinuxMafiascorche, where can i ask?
00:05:35scorchei dont know, but not here
00:06:01LinuxMafiai try google
00:06:35LambdaCalculus37Bagder: Well, according to the previous owner, there already was an install version of gcc on this Mac, but I think it's older than required.
00:08:42*LambdaCalculus37 checks to see if he does indeed have all of the Xcode tools, since gcc is included
00:10:49 Join CrumbCat [0] (
00:11:03 Quit madspin (Remote closed the connection)
00:12:31MarcGuayLlorean: In a way, having "Draft version" writted all over the manual implies that there's a completed version somewhere, which is just another form of confusion.
00:13:03LloreanMarcGuay: Which will change in 1.5 months.
00:13:16LloreanIdeally we'll have a 3.0 manual to go with the 3.0 release.
00:13:51MarcGuayLlorean: Truth.
00:14:05LloreanTo me, the idea behind the "draft version" on every page is that people realize it won't always be exactly up to date with the builds. If we had more consistency in updating keymapping changes, new menus, etc. I'd be more in favour of reducing it somewhat
00:14:16LloreanAs it stands, I wouldn't mind if it were red and blinking in the HTML version.
00:14:52preglowdraft watermark should definitely stay
00:15:01MarcGuayLlorean: I guess it lowers expectations a little, which is nice. It's just ugly and a little bit of a beat-you-over-the-head-with-it.
00:15:01preglowit'll make more sense once we start releasing
00:15:23LloreanMarcGuay: "beat you over the head" is kinda the only way to get the message across, I suspect. :)
00:15:39LloreanBut yeah, I'm *really* hoping we'll have a decent enough 3.0 manual that the daily ones really are drafts
00:16:39preglowmuch in the way of that?
00:16:39MarcGuayLlorean: I think it's pretty close to golden. We just need to make some decisions regarding what's wiki material and what's manual material, then push those pieces into place. And add the minute details which are missing...
00:17:07 Join shot0fadds [0] (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds)
00:17:30LloreanMarcGuay: That's pretty much how I feel, but I don't want to state personal opinions on completeness just yet. I *intend* to eventually sit down and read through one complete manual for one of the players I know well.
00:17:48Lloreanpreglow: Huh?
00:17:56MarcGuayLlorean: I was about to say it would be nice if someone gave the whole thing a proper proof-read before signing off on it.
00:18:26LloreanMarcGuay: Well, if I end up RM I'll *have* to, if I avoid that dubious honor, I'll put it on the list of things an RM should sign off on. :)
00:18:36MarcGuayI don't think it will ever be perfect, the software is just too complex, but we can at least make sure that everything is covered and it reads well.
00:18:59 Quit shotofadds (Nick collision from services.)
00:19:04 Nick shot0fadds is now known as shotofadds (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds)
00:20:07MarcGuaypreglow: If that gets committed don't forget the manual. :) I want that on a t-shirt with the RB logo stamped "Draft version".
00:20:59preglowMarcGuay: planning on updating the manual, yeah
00:21:12preglowjust want top make sure it's in the form we want it
00:22:33 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
00:23:47MarcGuayDoes anyone want to help this guy? I don't understand the problem and tired of prodding for info.
00:24:55MarcGuayMartin Arver is a champion star.
00:25:39 Quit MarcGuay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:29:01preglowwe seem to use setting \setting{} for both settings and actual settings choices
00:29:13preglowi think that's a typographical distinction worth making
00:29:23preglowignore that first "setting" there, keyboard problems
00:29:26 Join MarcGuay [0] (
00:29:32 Join PaulJam_ [0] (
00:29:43Lloreanpreglow: Sounds sensible to me.
00:29:45 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
00:30:55 Quit BHSPitLappy (Remote closed the connection)
00:30:59preglowsettings themselves can be in small caps, as i thik they are. setting choices can be italic
00:31:02amiconnLlorean: Manual proof-reading needs to be done for all targets before release, preferably by someone who has the target(s) to compare the manual with reality
00:31:15preglowamiconn: i'd just read the source code
00:31:22 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=BHSPitLa@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey)
00:31:26preglowbut yeah, same result of course
00:32:49Lloreanamiconn: Frankly, we have to accept that may not happen. Signing off on the overall readiness (in terms of understandability, etc) of the "Apps" layer manual bits can be done with almost any manual, with "individual target owners signing off on target-specific manuals" being a wish-list kinda thing
00:32:52amiconnOf course you can read the source for comparison. But it's more difficult, and easier to overlook details if you're not familiar with the real thing. That's why I seaid 'preferably'
00:35:23andrewbeveridgehello again :)
00:35:28andrewbeveridgeI have found the cause of the problem, of sorts... I tried the same track, converted to different formats using MediaMonkey (my favourite audio organiser), to find that all of the converted files worked flawlessly! The original file, which causes faulty playback on rockbox, was converted using the "Windows Audio Converter" software which comes with Windows XP Media Center edition...
00:35:35andrewbeveridgeI always knew the software was trash, as it incorrectly merges ID3v1 and 2 tags for *interesting* results. But something about WMA files produced by that software seemingly clashes with Rockbox. Sadly, every one of the several thousand WMAs in my collection was converted using this software, so I am still eager to figure out why rockbox doesnt like them. I mean, they play fine on the PC...
00:35:40andrewbeveridgeHere is a link to the location of the faulty file and a working file, same format, but converted with different software, and also a sound recording of what playback of the faulty file sounds like when coming through speakers attached to my "rockpod". :)
00:35:50pixelmaLlorean: I read the OndioFM manual completely once, the result was a todo list with things concerning this specific manual but also more general things. And it is still not "done" :\
00:36:48 Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
00:37:01 Quit nplus (Remote closed the connection)
00:37:15pixelmathat was about 1.5 years ago if that matters
00:37:42LloreanAre there any problems with it that you'd consider "release critical"?
00:38:32preglowandrewbeveridge: the problem was that these files skipped a lot, right?
00:38:51andrewbeveridgeplay the sample recording :)
00:38:52 Join DanHibiki [0] (
00:39:51 Quit shotofadds (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:39:54pixelmaLlorean: will have to go through that list now as I also had forgotten about it and things changed a bit and were done by someone else
00:41:39preglowandrewbeveridge: mok, thanks for the file, i'll relay it on the the wma guy if i don't have a look myself first
00:41:57 Part DanHibiki
00:42:43Lloreanpixelma: I would very, very much appreciate it if once you go through and remove anything you think might be fixed, you just made an "Ondio" header on the ManualTodo page and pasted it in there however you see fit.
00:43:34preglowandrewbeveridge: bad news, i tried the faulty file in vlc, and that also plays it wrong
00:43:49andrewbeveridgevlc plays all my wma files wrong :(
00:43:56Learandrewbeveridge: Sounds strange. I'd suspect the decoder isn't quite up to spec.
00:44:00preglowandrewbeveridge: that means the only open source wma codec can't play it correctly, and our wma decoder is based on that
00:44:10andrewbeveridgewmp, mediamonkey, winamp, amarok, all play them fine
00:44:28preglowandrewbeveridge: i suspect all of those use the windows decoder
00:44:28pixelmaLlorean: yep, wouldn't even be too hard once I go through the facts
00:44:42Learpreglow: Even amarok?
00:44:50andrewbeveridgesurely amarok uses the open source wma decoder too?
00:44:52preglowLear: right, i don't know about that at all
00:45:03preglowwell, if you find out about that, that'd be very interesting
00:45:11preglowi'll check out a new ffmpeg tree and try that out
00:45:21andrewbeveridgein fact i'm quite sure kaffeine plays them too
00:45:25andrewbeveridgeso xine must
00:46:08andrewbeveridgei'm going to reboot into linux and do some more testing :) before i do, i'll upload those files to a permanent server so they are still accessible
00:47:05 Join xxbatman94xx [0] (i=4c1fa2aa@gateway/web/ajax/
00:47:54 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:47:55 Quit PaulJam (Connection timed out)
00:47:55xxbatman94xxdoes anybody know if anyone is still working on fixing the video player for the ipod photo?
00:48:13Lloreanxxbatman94xx: What's wrong with the video player?
00:48:29xxbatman94xxit still has the color bug
00:48:52LloreanSo does Rockbox itself.
00:48:58LloreanThat's not a video-player specific problem.
00:49:25xxbatman94xxwell i kno..but i mean have they made a patch yet?
00:49:50LloreanWell, I couldn't have known because you asked about the video player, rather than the actual problem. The video player itself was fine. No, nobody has made a patch yet.
00:49:52 Quit xxbatman94xx (Client Quit)
00:49:57LloreanIf there were an actual fix, we'd have included it.
00:50:02LloreanAh well
00:50:11 Join xxbatman94xx [0] (i=4c1fa2aa@gateway/web/ajax/
00:50:17*stripwax hmms
00:50:24 Join CaptainKewl [0] (
00:50:25pixelmaLlorean: hah, I also just remembered that there also must be a short list of amiconn's nitpicks on the Player manual somewhere around here ;)
00:51:17 Quit xxbatman94xx (Client Quit)
00:51:32LloreanHonestly, much like the build itself, we can have hacked versions of the manual for 3.0 where we just manually type in things if there's no good way to do it within the current dynamic system.
00:51:34preglowandrewbeveridge: seems to work nice enough in ffmpeg svn
00:51:51preglowdoesn't sound perfect, though
00:51:56 Quit Lambduh (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:52:07andrewbeveridgehmmm in what way?
00:52:11 Join Lambduh [0] (n=Lambda@
00:52:27LloreanThey are pretty low bitrate, aren't they?
00:52:58linuxstbI've just been playing it with a recent mplayer, and it sounds OK... But mplayer is giving 3 or 4 "overflow in spectral RLE" errors near the start.
00:53:04andrewbeveridgewell, as VBR WMA goes, no. I find a VBR 60-80 kbps MA file sounds exactly the same as a 128 kbps MP3
00:53:06linuxstb(and it skips a little at those points)
00:53:58Lloreanandrewbeveridge: I meant in an objective sense, not in a subjective "what you think of them" sense.
00:53:59preglowandrewbeveridge: none of them sounds nice in current ffmpeg
00:54:08preglowthey play without gaps, but have horrible artifacts
00:54:10 Quit andrewbeveridge ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
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00:54:20preglowlinuxstb: overflow in spectral rle isn't fatal and actually quite common
00:54:55linuxstbpreglow: So you don't get any short skips near the start?
00:54:56preglowi don't have a native decoder handy, so don't know how it should sound
00:54:59preglowlinuxstb: i do
00:55:09preglowbut the whole file sounds nasty
00:55:26andrewbeveridgewhen you say "nasty", do you mean -">,%20first%2030%20seconds).mp3
00:55:27preglowall transients are clicky, and the background noise is very granulated
00:55:36linuxstbI'm listening on my laptop's built-in "speakers", so can't comment on the quality...
00:55:38preglowandrewbeveridge: no, not gappy
00:55:43andrewbeveridgeah ok
00:56:46 Quit mf0102 (Remote closed the connection)
00:57:17 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
00:57:41 Quit Horscht ("I am root. If you see me laughing, you better have a backup")
00:58:14andrewbeveridgei am beginning to regret choosing wma for my collection - although it takes up a lot less space, problems like these you just dont get with something as widely accepted as MP3.
00:58:17 Quit herrwaldo ("Konversation terminated!")
00:58:26Learpreglow: Amarok appears to use xine for playback, and xine seem to use ffmpegs decoder. Though there's wine stuff there too, so maybe it can use windows libraries too?
00:58:33preglowandrewbeveridge: you won't regret using vorbis if you want low bitrate files
00:58:35LloreanI wonder if it's a metadata thing
00:58:42preglowandrewbeveridge: i'm quite sure you'll find the quality superior
00:58:59 Quit robin0800 (" HydraIRC -> <- IRC with a difference")
00:59:04LearLlorean: No, it wouldn't affect playback like this.
00:59:14preglowLear: it might, i don't know, never had the piggyback dll stuff running
00:59:31andrewbeveridgei love vorbis, but i am yet to find a cheap personal audio player to suit my needs which plays them. obviously now i have rockbox that doesnt apply :)
00:59:39LloreanLear: Well it sounds like it's playing something other than just the straight WMA data.
01:00:45LloreanSeeking in that problematic file doesn't work either.
01:01:06andrewbeveridgeum i use gstreamer in amarok not xine, both play both files fine.... admittedly seeking fails.
01:01:25preglowLlorean: ffmpeg vomits warnings for that file
01:01:31preglowit sounds the same as the other one, though
01:01:49preglowi'm quite sure gstreamer does not do dll piggybacking
01:02:03pixelmaLlorean: I think a very important flaw in the Archos manuals are the outdated flashing instructions, unfortunately I don't know enough about the procedure myself...
01:02:09Lloreanpreglow: Seeking in-Rockbox works up to about halfway through the file, but any point after that seems to fail
01:02:31Lloreanpixelma: Well, they may be drastically different for 3.0 anyway since you can't run from ROM any more.
01:03:01pixelmayou still can without modifications on the Player and on the OndioSP
01:04:01LloreanIt may be better to just drop it as "supported" for release versions now though, since it may not last terribly much longer.
01:04:19andrewbeveridgecould somebody send me a "clean" mp3 file, so i can convert it using the Windows Audio Converter software and compare the results - to make sure that software is the only problem
01:05:17pixelmaLlorean: what?
01:05:56Lloreanpixelma: There's a very good chance the bin is going to keep on growing.
01:06:03pixelmado you mean the flashing part or the Archos devices in general?
01:06:07LloreanThe flashing part.
01:06:16LloreanSpecifically the "execute from ROM" method.
01:06:24LloreanI don't know if the compressed image still fits or not
01:08:20pixelmawell, I still "flash" the rockbox.ucl on my OndioFM which gets a bigger binary than the stock ones for backlight support
01:08:40andrewbeveridgeok i guess you guys have lost interest :) just to make sure - if i find out why the track fails to play properly in VLC, i solve the problem, right?
01:10:09preglowandrewbeveridge: sure
01:10:42preglowandrewbeveridge: but if you know ffmpeg to be the backend of whatever program you use, you'd be better off testing against an svn version of that
01:10:48preglowandrewbeveridge: since that's where we'll look
01:11:37andrewbeveridgedoes vlc win32 use ffmpeg?
01:11:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:11:59pixelmaLlorean: but I could live with dropping that chapter for the release, especially in this outdated state it is in
01:12:00preglowif you're into compiling your own stuff, it's no worse than just checking out the svn tree of ffmpeg and bulding the "ffmpeg" program
01:12:06andrewbeveridgeah ok thanks
01:12:14preglowffmpeg -i infile.wma outfile.wav will decode
01:12:41pixelmaLlorean: and it is rather something for advanced users
01:12:41preglowthe ffmpeg people _might_ be interested in files that fail themselves
01:13:10preglowthat is, they're quite certainly interested, but wma is a harder codec to fix, seeing as how there's no reference implementation
01:13:44 Nick Addicted_ is now known as Addicted (n=fnode@
01:14:47Lloreanpixelma: Exactly
01:15:21amiconnLlorean: The compressed image still fits with a comfortable margin on all archoses
01:15:42Lloreanamiconn: Good to hear.
01:15:48amiconnOndio SP is ~5KB away from breaking rombox, Player ~40KB
01:15:57andrewbeveridgepreglow: yeah, as is always the case with proprietary formats. i suppose the reason i chose wma was simple: my 1GB Creative Zen mp3 player played MP3s and WMAs, and with VBR WMA i could get twice the number of tracks ;)
01:16:42*pixelma wonders once more where [IDC]Dragon and his minimalistic bootloader went
01:16:48amiconnFlashing instructions itself aren't that difficult, writing them down in proper english is...
01:17:43amiconnWe should also make a fresh set of flash images for the release (bootbox shoul dprfit from the numerous fixes of e.g. the fat driver)
01:18:47pixelmaproblem is that the ones who could write the instructions down in proper English probably don't know them too well
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01:26:07preglowsomeone write them in improper english first?
01:26:55 Quit bughunter2 (Client Quit)
01:28:28pixelmathat someone again? ;)
01:28:50 Join erram [0] (
01:29:02Lloreanalias someone="preglow"
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01:30:09 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]")
01:30:50preglowi wouldn't mind reading through improper english and taking a shot at cleaning it
01:31:01preglowbut i have no clue about flashing
01:31:37LloreanWell, I think really we just need simplified instructions.
01:31:47Llorean"Click on this file, press F1 to confirm, then F2 to confirm, then wait"
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01:33:34 Join cHiLi_cOn_cArNe [0] (n=Javier@unaffiliated/nycjv321)
01:34:03preglowgreat, now i'm hungry too
01:34:08cHiLi_cOn_cArNeany specific reason why the ipod shuffle is not supported by rockbox?
01:34:28LloreancHiLi_cOn_cArNe: Because it has entirely different hardware, and no owner has stepped forward and worked on it.
01:34:28preglowcHiLi_cOn_cArNe: no one has figured out how to put any code on it
01:34:45cHiLi_cOn_cArNeo ok fair enough :D
01:35:17cHiLi_cOn_cArNeI should've never gotten the ipoo :,(
01:38:13 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
01:38:26 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
01:38:51pixelmaLlorean: I'd like to have the installation instructions that way - e.g. Sansa manuals: (1) check original firmware version etc...
01:40:16 Quit erram_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:40:46andrewbeveridgepreglow: um, i've just grabbed the latest ffmpeg, and it plays both files perfectly.
01:40:52Lloreanpixelma: Honestly, I'd like to get rid of the "manual install" section (either move it to the end of the manual, or offload it into the wiki, and leave future manual installs in the wiki from the get-go) then just include "Special Instructions" to use alongside RBUtil in the normal install bit
01:41:09andrewbeveridgepreglow: nobody is responding at the ffmpeg irc channel anyway
01:43:53preglowandrewbeveridge: really, now
01:44:06preglowdidn't sound very perfect here :>
01:44:29preglowmanual install shoul go in the wiki, imho
01:45:05Lloreanpreglow: That's my preference, but since we've got it in the manuals already, hiding it in an appendix or something is an option
01:45:13preglowthere's no good reason to spend time polishing something most people won't ever read
01:46:52preglowtime to hit the bed anyway
01:46:52preglowgood night
01:47:29andrewbeveridgepreglow: hmmm i'm using a precompiled win32 binary
01:47:47andrewbeveridgepreglow: ah ok goodnight, i'll keep trying to figure out the problem :) thanks
01:48:09pixelmaLlorean: maybe yes, but I also meant things you should know or do before running RBUtil (like the check for v1 or v2 Sansa, stuff like that). And if there wasn't a change recently I missed - before moving the manual installation out - there are some things mentioned there which apply generally (e.g. losing the DRM support if you install on an US 300)
01:48:48andrewbeveridgejust in case it makes any difference, the ffmpeg build i'm using is r13778
01:48:57pixelmaLlorean: and there are things which *IMO* should still be mentioned even though RBUtil should guide the user through that, like starting the firmware upgrade process in the OF on H300. All in all - before moving it out, it needs some work...
01:49:06Lloreanpixelma: I'd consider those "special instructions that apply to RBUtil" as well.
01:49:29LloreanAny step that's not the same for *all* players should be mentioned first in the RButil section of the manual
01:50:02 Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:50:11cHiLi_cOn_cArNenot trying to be a nuisance but is there anyway to play oggvorbis on ipod? (that anyone would no of? if not perfectly fine just trying to see if its possible)
01:50:46 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:50:48cHiLi_cOn_cArNeknow of*
01:51:11LloreancHiLi_cOn_cArNe: This channel is for Rockbox. If you have questions about the shuffle, which is not supported, please take them elsewhere
01:52:13cHiLi_cOn_cArNeLlorean: o ok lol my bad (really cool project though) ill go :D
01:52:32 Part cHiLi_cOn_cArNe
01:53:09 Quit GodEater (K-lined)
01:54:24 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:57:31andrewbeveridgedoes anybody know what build of ffmpeg the soundcodecwma decoder was taken from?
01:58:15andrewbeveridge(when development on adding wma functionality to rockbox got going in 2007)
01:59:52saratogaandrewbeveridge: the current build
01:59:59saratogai've backported all wma updates to rockbox
02:01:06andrewbeveridgeah, thanks... um i cant understand the problem then
02:01:18saratogadoes ffmpeg decode your file correctly?
02:01:31andrewbeveridgea win32 binary of ffmpeg build 13778 does perfectly
02:01:43saratogathen i've broken something
02:02:34andrewbeveridgewell, not necessarily - i may be doing something wrong... please, try witht he same file i am using:">
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02:04:41Lloreansaratoga: Does the warning/error "multiple frames in a packet from stream 0" indicate anything to you?
02:04:53saratogaLlorean: is that from rockbox?
02:04:57LloreanNo, ffmpeg on that wma
02:05:21saratogayou'd have to ask linuxstb, but I think that sounds ok, wma can have lots of frames in one packet i think
02:05:33LloreanWell, the "working" WMA doesn't give that message.
02:05:41LloreanWhile the "bad" one gives it many, many times
02:06:45andrewbeveridgesaratoga, out of interest, are you developing on windows or linux?
02:09:38saratogaandrewbeveridge: both
02:10:15saratogaLlorean: let me look at the ffmpeg source and see what that message refers to
02:11:09LloreanI would assume if it were "normal", it probably wouldn't say anything. Then again, who knows what they decide is worth telling the user about. :)
02:12:27saratogaLlorean: i'm not seeing that message in the ffmpeg source
02:12:32saratogais that exactly what it says?
02:12:34 Quit bertrik ("bye")
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02:13:17LloreanMultiple frames in a packet from stream 0
02:14:32saratogaLlorean: do you have the ffmpeg source for that build handy? my tar is kind of old it could be newer
02:15:19Lloreansaratoga: Nah, I just tracked down the windows binary I'm about 80% sure andrewbeveridge tested with, so I could duplicate his results
02:16:07LloreanIt should just be rev 13778, from this site:
02:16:59andrewbeveridgeLlorean: nah, i got it from here: but it is the same build
02:18:19andrewbeveridgeLlorean: I got the latest (13778) ffmpeg executable from here:
02:19:00saratogafrom the sound of the glitching, I'd guess that huffman decoding is failing causing the entire packet to be skipped every so often
02:19:10saratogathats why it seems to keep jumping ahead
02:20:07saratogai tried tweaking the huffman settings but it didn't seem to do anything
02:20:55andrewbeveridgebut, what difference between the two files could cause problems related to that?
02:21:46saratogai didn't look at the second file, what is it?
02:22:02Lloreansaratoga: He just reencoded the same song with a different WMA encoder
02:23:10saratogaoh i wouldn't be surprised that works
02:23:26saratogaour decoder seems quite good, this is only 1 of 2 known problem samples
02:23:44andrewbeveridgeexactly - same supposed "format" and "bitrate" settings etc - i just used better software. ironic that the "official" Microsoft software for audio conversion does a botch job of WMA files.
02:23:53saratogawell plus a third i haven't commited a fix for yet since linuxstb hasn't been around for me to ask about it
02:24:02Lloreanandrewbeveridge: I wouldn't say they do a botch job.
02:24:05LloreanSince they define the format.
02:24:45andrewbeveridgeLlorean: well, I had problems with the same software a while ago when i realised it incorrectly merges id3v1 and id3v2 tags
02:25:28Lloreanandrewbeveridge: But that's irrelevant to whether or not they do a botch job of the encoding itself. :-P
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02:26:19andrewbeveridgethats the point i'm making - they created/defined the format, but this microsoft software outputs files which are poorly encoded!
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02:26:53Lloreanandrewbeveridge: You can't define "poorly encoded" based on whether other nonstandard players play them poorly.
02:27:52saratogadecoding seems to fail because new blocks periodically don't pass a sanity check
02:28:11saratogathis probably means that the previous block did not decode correclty and it screwed up the position of the file pointer
02:28:24saratogaso the parser is still somewhere between blocks when the new block starts decoding
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02:28:50LiF1i just installed rockbox on my ipod, wow it's nice...anyone know how to exit the mandelbrot app? i'm stuck..
02:29:01andrewbeveridgeLlorean: yeah, i guess. I've slipped into MS-bashing mode again, forget thinking clearly and being fair ;)
02:30:08 Quit culture (Operation timed out)
02:30:56andrewbeveridgeLiF1: switch the iPod off? :)
02:31:13LiF1yeah i don't know how to do that either.. i'm not really an ipod user..
02:31:18andrewbeveridgehold play
02:31:23LiF1:) thanks
02:31:48andrewbeveridgenor was I until I found rockbox - today :)
02:32:06LiF1someone gave me an ipod a year ago and i kept using my rio
02:32:27LiF1i found rockbox today and that made me a lot more interested...
02:33:29andrewbeveridgethe thought of being forced to use a database for track info, of not being able to simply copy-and-paste music in any file structure I liked, always put me off iPods of any kind...
02:34:09LiF1yea. i have a smartphone with microsd... i usually use that for music.. but the battery life sucks as a music player
02:35:38LiF1the rio i have isn't much better really... the sd card doesn't support FAT so you have to use their crummy app / proprietary cable etc to copy music onto it..
02:35:45LiF1but atleast it uses a AA battery
02:36:26LiF1my company gave me that one tho.. i don't buy things like that usually..
02:36:50LloreanGuys, this channel isn't really for discussion the shortcomings of original firmwares.
02:37:01andrewbeveridgenever heard of rio, but i tend to stick with my old creative zen because it uses AAA betteries - meaning i can use my own rechargables or buy batteries whenever, etc.
02:37:02LiF1yeah sorry. thanks for the reminder.
02:37:12andrewbeveridgeokies sorr
02:37:54LiF1can i play muci while it's connected in hard drive mode?
02:38:18LloreanLiF1: you cannot access the HD and play music at the same time.
02:39:40LiF1am I correct in understanding that the only way to switch is to physically unplug the cable?
02:39:54LloreanAt the moment, yes.
02:40:33LloreanOne key reason there's no easy way to switch between the two is that on the iPod we don't actually have USB support. You're in Apple software when you can transfer files.
02:41:24andrewbeveridgehence the slow transfer speeds?
02:41:43LiF1it's slow?
02:42:00andrewbeveridgemoreso than a normal USB2 mass storage device
02:42:06LloreanSome iPods experience slow transfer speeds in the Apple "Disk Mode" application (not the same as the normal Apple firmware disk mode)
02:42:40LiF1mine doesn't seem slow...
02:43:10andrewbeveridgeI'm just referring to my experience of file transfer from PC to iPod, I've never used disk mode as far as i know.
02:43:32Lloreanandrewbeveridge: Remember, iPods use a different sort of drive than most UMS devices.
02:43:39LloreanFew use a 1.8" HD
02:44:02andrewbeveridgei suppose i'm used to my creative 1gb which uses flash memory
02:44:10andrewbeveridgewhich is obviously much faster
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02:44:53LiF1transfer rates on flash usually isn't faster than a fast HD. (just no seek time)
02:45:01LiF1ipods don't have a fast HD tho
02:45:15JdGordon|zzzwpyh: hey, good work on the maze patch... ill try commitint it today
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02:45:51LiF1are you working on usb software for the ipod that will replace the apple software?
02:46:22 Quit perrikwp (Client Quit)
02:46:45LloreanIt's coming along, but it's not reliable enough to be enabled yet.
02:47:39LiF1cool. that's gotta be a challenge.
02:48:21LloreanWe've got a rather bright guy who's been doing a lot of the work on it.
02:48:39LloreanIt's actually *usable* it's just not reliable enough that it'll be usable for everyone. It's still somewhat dependent on the USB port you plug it into, and we don't like that.
02:51:36saratogaLlorean: i found that message, its a standard error that occurs if the packet length and decoded data length don't match, so its probably due to the decoder getting stuck and giving up
02:52:06Lloreansaratoga: Except the output sounds more or less like it's supposed to, whereas when Rockbox decodes it, it doesn't.
02:52:14LloreanSo ffmpeg recovers from the error better than we do?
02:52:42saratogaor there could be serveral errors in play here and ffmpeg has less
02:54:33LiF1I followed the link in the FAQ to get to the database page and there's nothing there ... Is the link bad or is there really nothing there?
02:54:48LiF1I wanted to know if I can add individual songs to the DB or if i have to do a full rebuild
02:55:24LloreanSomeone typed it wrong, it's
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02:57:17wpyhJdGordon: thanks :)
02:58:29wpyhdoes anyone here know what the "Mode Sense" bytes in dmesg mean?
02:58:45wpyhI googled but I only got the command, not the returned data
02:59:12*wpyh is asking because RB's usb stack returns a different set of bytes than the OF's disk mode
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03:07:09andrewbeveridgewpyh: "Mode Sense" - is that quoted from the dmesg output?
03:07:23wpyhyes, from the dmesg
03:07:40andrewbeveridgei can't find that string anywhere in the unix-utils source
03:07:54wpyhwell, I think that's emitted by the kernel
03:08:20andrewbeveridgeno idea personally, sorry :)
03:10:03andrewbeveridgethat help? :)
03:11:09wpyhuh, I actually got that page yesterday, from google −− as I said, I only found the command :)
03:11:20wpyhnot the returned data, which is what I want to know..
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03:11:49andrewbeveridgeah, so what do you want to know? how to interpret the data?
03:13:04wpyhyes, I want to know what the 4 bytes after Mode Sense: mean
03:18:56LiF1is ipod battery life any better than these original posts I'm seeing saying it's about half of orig FW ?
03:19:04LiF1any better _now_ i mean
03:19:33scorcheit is
03:20:25LiF1is it close to orig fw ?
03:20:48LloreanUnder some very specific conditions it might even pass it
03:21:08LiF1i saw the debug screen that shows the cpu speed fluctuating.. is that for power saving?
03:22:00LiF1i must just need a new battery
03:22:22andrewbeveridgewpyh: just out of interest, cos you've got me curious now, could you see what 'sg_modes -a' returns?
03:23:00andrewbeveridgewpyh: see if there is any correlation between that and the bytes shown in dmesg
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03:25:23wpyhit's weird
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03:28:25rushfanDoes Rockbox run on the 160gb iPod Classic?
03:28:40rushfanOk. Any of the iPod Classics?
03:28:57rushfancause my ipod video is starting to croak but I dont want to get a new ipod which isnt supported by rockbox :(
03:29:03LloreanMarcGuay: Regarding the guy who mentioned a number of music files in the tracker, maybe he meant the stats plugin?
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03:31:31BHSPitLappyrushfan, then don't get an ipod
03:31:42rushfanbut what else supports rockbox right now>
03:31:51BHSPitLappyrushfan, have a look at
03:31:54Lloreanrushfan: All the players listed on the front page.
03:32:00rushfanI am looking. And I see nothing else
03:32:14rushfannothing thats "new"
03:32:16BHSPitLappyrushfan, I must say I'm not impressed with your literacy
03:32:25Lloreanrushfan: Ah, well you didn't mention new at the time
03:32:33Lloreanrushfan: What's wrong with a used or refurbished player if it's in decent condition?
03:32:44BHSPitLappygenerally rockbox ports don't tend to happen right at a player's release
03:32:49rushfanLlorean: because my 3 year best buy warranty is only good for stuff best buy sells
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03:33:16Lloreanrushfan: Well, even if there were new ones Rockbox supported, they probably wouldn't be sold at Best Buy
03:33:27LloreanBB has a habit of only offering a very limited selection of the absolute most mainstream players
03:33:51BHSPitLappydon't forget badly-made gimmick mp3 players
03:34:25rushfanwell, thnere are very few other decent HDD players on the market anymore
03:34:46rushfanApple has basically completely monopolized that market. The iAudio x5 was like the last holdout
03:34:55LloreanThe Gigabeats were around longer than it.
03:35:06rushfanhmm I was never a Gigabeat fan :|
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03:35:14rushfanof course that was before they could run Rockbox
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04:09:43wpyhRB's usb stack is slow :(
04:10:05LloreanOn what player?
04:10:23MarcGuayLlorean: If that's the case (stats plugin thing), then I'm getting the same number reported there as in the playlist. Will review the task.
04:10:37LloreanMarcGuay: It's only a guess, as I can't imagine what else he meant
04:11:25MarcGuayYeah I looked over the Rockbox Info screen 100 times. He refers to it as "system info" which sounds to me like it's a windows thing, though...
04:11:35LloreanMaybe that
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04:17:29MarcGuayLlorean: Do you understand what he means by this "then when running that playlist the random duplication of a any random track happens when playing or skipping through the playlist in the WPS screen."?
04:17:58MarcGuayI can't figure out if there's simply a duplicate of one of the songs or something more..
04:18:18LloreanMarcGuay: My best guess is it's just the "playlist out of order" bug fixed shortly after DevCon
04:18:47MarcGuayI'm going to close it. I'm getting the right number of tracks.
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04:20:51Davide-NYCI have not been keeping up with all of the latest developments with Rockbox in the last several weeks. Was there any talk of separating the display code from the audio code in the WRS recently?
04:21:44LloreanThere's not a lot of focus on new features at the moment.
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04:22:24MarcGuayDavide-NYC: It's been pretty quiet on that front. There have been a few blind users experiencing frustration with the lack of voicing, though.
04:23:44Davide-NYCThat makes sense. There are other issues as well. User fonts are a real biggie.
04:24:11LloreanActually, right now most of the focus should (hopefully) be on bug fixes, not functionality
04:24:21LloreanSystems should not be reworked at the moment
04:25:53Davide-NYCIs there talk of a 3.0 release?!
04:25:58MarcGuayI'm looking forward to themable recording and radio screens.
04:26:04LloreanThat's kinda the big thing that came out of DevCon...
04:26:13Davide-NYCI guess that'll be 3.1 :(
04:26:24LloreanIt'll be "whenever someone actually does it"
04:26:50wpyhLlorean: it's a 5.5g iPod Video
04:27:10Lloreanwpyh: And you enabled both the USB stack and High Speed?
04:27:26LloreanAnd what were the data rates you got, and what did you get with the OF?
04:27:54wpyhwith the OF I got around 11 MB/s IIRC
04:28:12wpyhright now I get only 4.5MB/s read, and if I unplug then plug it in again, I on'y get ~950KB/s
04:28:30Davide-NYCLlorean: is any part of the ReleaseAnnouncement30 page relevant? Last changes were made in 2006!
04:28:47LloreanDavide-NYC: No, I haven't even looked at that page
04:28:48wpyhand now I'm seeing some "reset high speed USB..." errors on dmesg
04:28:52LloreanDavide-NYC: See ReleaseTodo
04:29:04Lloreanwpyh: Then you're seeing the reset bug.
04:30:07wpyhfor the slow speed after reconnecting, there's a strange phenomenon: the device is recognized as full speed at first, then upgraded to high speed
04:30:13wpyhI saw that in the dmesg
04:31:05MarcGuay <- Is the answer to this to remove the menu option and entry in the manual until it's actually implemented?
04:31:20LloreanMarcGuay: Yes.
04:31:26wpyhLlorean: is the bug in FS #8562?
04:31:41LloreanMarcGuay: In fact, Recording on iPods should just be disabled for release. I'm not sure about H10s
04:32:03Lloreanwpyh: You'll notice mention of device resets there, yes...
04:32:06MarcGuayLlorean: What's the problem on the ipods?
04:32:24LloreanMarcGuay: Hardware initialization. After recording, you can't listen to music without rebooting.
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04:32:36MarcGuayThat's no good.
04:32:43LloreanNot for a release build, no
04:35:10MarcGuayIt seems the line-in pins are known for the H10 data cable. Does anyone here have one and care to verify that the line-in through dock doesn't work?
04:35:28LloreanThere aren't many with H10s.
04:35:37LloreanIt wasn't the most popular of our targets.
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04:37:35MarcGuayThe OP commented on June 8th of this year so I assume it's still valid.
04:38:03LloreanIt seems likely
04:39:12MarcGuayIf I remove the SRC_CAP_LINEIN from the config is that enough to take it out of the menu or does it need to be done manually?
04:40:06*MarcGuay looks it up for himself
04:40:44Davide-NYCI sent a faulty H10 to MikeS a while back. It booted to RB but would reset after a short while. Maybe he fixed the unit and can test the line in?
04:41:01Davide-NYCI believe it was a bad battery (micro-cap)
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05:07:19MarcGuayOn the ipods that can record through the headphone jack, is it considered Line-In?
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05:26:01ulmolav*bleh* cOX <−− emoticon read from right to left, guy throwing up
05:26:27LloreanPlease, stay on the topic of rockbox in here.
05:26:31ulmolavso, I ran dd if=/dev/zero of=my sansa e250
05:27:03JdGordonand now you cant get into recovery mode...
05:27:12ulmolavwell, I've been doing a bit
05:28:32ulmolavLet's see, I've looked at And I've looked at a lot of other stuff. I got to the recovery, uh, thing. I copied .mi4 and .rom and touched sansa.fmt. But it boots up to the blue ring of death still
05:30:25JdGordonyou need to do the manufacturer mode recovery
05:30:27ulmolav(And my fingers are all ache from soft-resetting it all the time)
05:32:09MarcGuayWhere does the manual pull the info for \opt{radio} from? I don't see that as a UseOption in the platform files...
05:32:11ulmolavAll right, recovery mode is happening.
05:33:05ulmolavAnd the hidden partition is blanked again. So I'm uncertain, which files should I put on it?
05:37:48ulmolav(You peeps are taking forever, I'm going to put .mi4 .rom and .fmt on and remove it 'safely' this time)
05:42:56JdGordonplease accept this gift certificate for 300 free downloads from for causing such grief
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05:43:46ulmolavwell, that was a rather fast format. :/
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05:44:06ulmolavyayo, I got the original firmware back
05:46:01MarcGuayLlorean: Nothing serious. Targets seem to have input capacity defined rather haphazardly and the manuals don't bother much with opting for the Mic and Line-In inputs.
05:47:29MarcGuayI'm just going to fix and then add the rest as a ManualToDo.
05:49:27ulmolavHaving :e200 in the device address was rather clever.
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06:05:54MarcGuayAnyone have an ipod handy?
06:06:19MarcGuayAnd a microphone? :)
06:07:04MarcGuayCan you tell me what recording source the headphone jack uses? (if the ipod is 3rd gen +)
06:07:45BenniBoyauuum,.. its a nano 1st gen and i guta reload rockbox...
06:07:53BenniBoyalike install it again quickly
06:08:06GaloisI never got recording to work ... but the web site claims it works
06:08:28MarcGuayGalois: Apple or Rockbox?
06:08:35MarcGuayBenniBoya: Take your time.
06:08:51BenniBoyaso i shud reinstall rockbox?
06:09:17MarcGuayBenniBoya: If you want to. Maybe Galois can give me a hand.
06:09:33MarcGuayGalois: What model do you have and what have you tried?
06:09:39GaloisI use an ipod nano
06:09:52GaloisI had one theory that you need one of those recording devices that attaches to the connector
06:09:58Galoisbut I tried that and it didn't work
06:10:14MarcGuayGalois: Crap, you're right, you need a dock for the nano.
06:10:24Galoisnote: I have an fm transmitter that attaches to the connector (not the headphone jack), and that device does work in rockbox
06:10:41MarcGuayThe 3rd/4th/Color/Photo are the ones that are supposed to record through the headphone jack.
06:11:08Galoisalso note: I haven't tried recording recently. It might work now.
06:11:30BenniBoyahey, i reinstalled rockbox (like a backup of it from a while ago) and loaded my custom firmwire (just changed the boot order) and then when i opened itunes it said it cudnt sync (error -54 or 56 or something around 50) and all my music apeared as other
06:12:34LloreanBenniBoya: First: When you're connected to the computer, it's through Apple code so it has nothing to do with Rockbox
06:12:44purpleposeidonhooray! rockbox is lively!
06:12:48LloreanSecond: If you're using an old build, and a customized bootloader, it's really not something we provide support for.
06:13:13BenniBoyaok ill test a new biuld then and the default bootlaoder first
06:13:17MarcGuayLlorean: Your idea to have a place to get questions answered about specific targets is a good idea. :)
06:13:32LloreanMarcGuay: Huh?
06:13:34MarcGuayI might resort to the forums to gather info..
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06:14:04MarcGuayYou mentionned a while ago that it would be handy to have a wiki page or something where you could inquire about target specific bugs/questions/etc.
06:15:57BenniBoyaoh yea, is there any work being done for rockbox on 2nd gen nano's (ust wondering, not asking)
06:16:09BenniBoyaok didnt think so
06:19:53MarcGuayGrr. Like the ipod 4g has Mic and Line-In input defined, but I have no idea if this is true. The best info I can find is the buyer's guide which says it has recording. Are there even docks for the 4g? I don't want to give up but I think I will.
06:20:26LloreanThere are line-in pins in the dock connector, and I'm pretty sure they're connected for the 4G at least
06:20:32LloreanPeople make custom cables for 'em, IIRC
06:20:57MarcGuaySo does that mean that the headphone jack is the Mic input?
06:21:02LloreanAnyway, "Mic" should be the headphone jack, and "Line In" is the dock input
06:21:14LloreanWhich is poor nomenclature but I don't think anyone's bothered since the feature works so poorly right now anyway
06:21:43BenniBoyahey if i wana install the bootloader, it shudnt matter wether it is in apple firmware or diskmode right?
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06:22:13LloreanBenniBoya: no, it shouldn't.
06:23:23MarcGuayLlorean: So, IYO, it's safe to remove the Mic input from the Nano and Video builds?
06:24:03LloreanMarcGuay: Yes
06:24:08LloreanIn my limited opinion.
06:24:16MarcGuayThe dock pins haven't changed for the ipods over generations, correct?
06:24:30LloreanThey might've from 3G to 4G
06:24:33LloreanI'm not wholly sure.
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06:29:56BenniBoya>a while ago i changed the rockbox bootlaoder a bit so rockbox would load when the play button was held and ipod firmware would open by default, but now when my ipod first turns on untill the backlight is turned of and back on the backlight is really dim
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06:35:23scorche|shBenniBoya: it sounds like you are asking for support for an unsupported bootloader, no?
06:35:55BenniBoyanot asking for support, just curious
06:36:42BenniBoyai lost the source code for it anyway when my linux crashed
06:36:57scorche|shwell, we cant really say what you did...
06:37:11scorche|shsee if it does it with the official bootloader
06:37:29LloreanOr without any Rockbox stuff installed
06:38:32BenniBoyait only does it with my customised version... and i only changed that last bit with the boot order stuff in it... its weird
06:39:26MarcGuayThe buyer's guide says the ipod 3g can record but it's not enabled in the config. Any idea which one is wrong?
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06:39:53LloreanMarcGuay: It may be that we don't have the necessary groundwork for recording on it yet.
06:40:15BenniBoya'that rockbox utlity looks good
06:40:30MarcGuayIsn't the buyer's guide supposed to list rockbox features, unlike the device chart which lists the hardware potential?
06:40:49LloreanI dunno
06:40:59MarcGuaySeems like it...
06:41:01LloreanRockbox features are rather fluid.
06:41:21LloreanI would expect it to list the hardware potential, possibly with some sort of notation for when it doesn't work yet
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06:59:19BenniBoyahey what was that program on the rockbox site that converted the ipod database tags?
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07:02:49cool_walking_linked from wiki/UsefulTools
07:03:17BenniBoyaok ill remember that
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07:07:12LloreanBenniBoya: Please, enough with the "..." lines. This channel is logged, so if you don't have something on-topic to say, don't press enter please.
07:07:36scorche|shTaylorKillian: erm...hi...long time no see...
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07:08:00TaylorKillianscorche|sh: hey, how's it going
07:08:18 Quit midgey_ ()
07:08:36scorche|shTaylorKillian: alright...more interested in how it is going with you though ;)
07:09:20TaylorKillianhonestly, i'm not impressed with my progress :(
07:09:30scorche|shsadly, we arent either...
07:09:36TaylorKillianI over commited myself this summer
07:10:27scorche|shi see
07:10:57MarcGuayAnybody have an opinion on this: Seems like it was added for a specific reason (only special setting for the e200 on the bookmarks screen).
07:11:10TaylorKilliananyways, i don't think i deserve to pass the midterm exam, but I am still am interested in the project, so i'm going to continue to work on it
07:11:36scorche|shTaylorKillian: i am very glad to hear that
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07:13:22scorche|shfeel free to come in here more often as well...we dont bite...usually =)
07:13:58LloreanMarcGuay: Close it. The record button is NOT reserved as a "turn on backlight" button, nor described as that anywhere, so anyone who uses it as such without thinking is just asking for trouble
07:15:33MarcGuayGrr, it wasn't documented.
07:16:38MarcGuayI'm tempted to remove it altogether as it's available through the regular means of deleting an entry - through the context menu. (The manual has no reference to REC=delete)
07:17:38LloreanI actually kinda like a quick delete button for that list.
07:17:46LloreanCleaning it up is a real hassle otherwise.
07:18:00MarcGuayAgain, I don't use bookmarks. And you're right, it's pretty ingrained.
07:18:16LloreanIt takes three button presses for each entry, vs 1
07:18:31LloreanI probably clear out my recent bookmarks list once a week, and I've missed the quick delete function on my Gigabeat
07:19:40MarcGuayLlorean: It's the A button apparently. Not sure if I understood you there...
07:20:01MarcGuayI've = I'd?
07:20:25LloreanThe A button is BAD for it.
07:20:35Llorean"A" should resume playback / return to the WPS from everywhere.
07:20:36LloreanIncluding there.
07:20:37MarcGuayLlorean: Voluntering? :)
07:20:50*MarcGuay passes the torch
07:21:22LloreanMark that task due in 3.0, will you?
07:21:32LloreanMaybe I will look at making that screen more consistent.
07:22:25MarcGuayThe screenshot here is way different from the way it looks currently. It even has bad instructions for the delete keymap.
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07:44:08Quazgaaanyone know of any issues hotplugging the x5l in linux
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07:57:07amiconnMarcGuay: I am wondering about r18028 and r18029
07:57:40MarcGuayDo tell.
07:57:42amiconnImo rockbox should have all features the hardware allows
07:58:05amiconnThese commits do arbitrary limiting, iiuc that is.
07:58:49amiconnPerhpas 18029 is not, but 18028 is.
07:59:19MarcGuayDid you read the task? Keep in mine I'm new to this.
08:00:00MarcGuayMaybe I misunderstood the defines.
08:00:22MarcGuayDoes the ability get separated from the capacity at a different point?
08:00:50amiconnIf line in is available on the H10 dock connector, but recording from it doesn't work, it's a bug that should be fixed, not the feature removed.
08:01:53amiconnr18029 is probably misunderstanding on my side. The Nano and Video cannot do the headphone connector trick?
08:02:15MarcGuayamiconn: According to the buyer's guide, they can only go through the dock.
08:02:40Lloreanamiconn: No, they cannot.
08:02:47LloreanIt's been confirmed, at least on the nano.
08:02:51MarcGuayAnd as for removing a feature, if the feature is not currently working, I'm of the mind that it shouldn't be an available option and the manual shouldn't say that it's possible.
08:02:58amiconnHmm, so the headphone trick is for G4? Ii always thought it's the opposite - but then I only have ipods which cannot record at all
08:03:10MarcGuayI wouldn't no where to begin with implementing it.
08:03:52amiconnMarcGuay: As long as we're not releasing, removing non-working features shouldn't be done (unless they're physically unfixable)
08:03:59LloreanMarcGuay: If it's not currently working, it should be available in the current build, but not the release.
08:04:16amiconnRemoving a non-working feature severely lowers the chance of it being fixed at all
08:04:45amiconn...since many people won't even know it *could* be possible, and hence do not test / pester developers etc
08:04:52MarcGuayThat seems odd to me. I guess I'm misunderstanding the way "it works".
08:07:33MarcGuayHere's Apple's page for the ipod "voice memo" recording:
08:10:48MarcGuaySo how does that philosophy apply to the "draft" manuals? Do unusable but possible features get documented?
08:11:20LloreanFeatures that "should be working, but have a bug" should be documented as if they were working.
08:11:33LloreanBasically, recording "should be working" but something isn't done right yet.
08:11:50amiconnMarcGuay: Yeah, so recording through the headphone jack isn't possible on G5 and hence r18029 is correct. r18028 is not, however, since the H10 dock connector does have line in
08:11:50MarcGuayI see.
08:12:10*MarcGuay is starting to get it.
08:12:30LloreanIt's kinda a fine distinction in some ways.
08:12:34MarcGuayI'll flip it back.
08:12:39amiconnPerhaps petur could look into this, as he's generally interested in recording and does have a H10
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08:12:52amiconnIt's mainly a problem of getting the connector though
08:13:32*amiconn could also do this if I can get hold of a connector, but he isn't so much into recording
08:14:11amiconnBtw, ipod recording is rather buggy in general afaik that it breaks playback until reboot. I don't understand why, as on H10 it doesn't cause that problem, and they're all PP
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08:17:42Lloreanamiconn: IIRC I think jhmikes (or someone) had a clue to that.
08:18:12amiconnUnfortunately he seems to have vanished...
08:18:38MarcGuayReverted and task reopened.
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08:34:54MarcGuayamiconn: Looks like Mike S can be summoned by action on certain tasks. :)
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09:45:12Lloreanpetur: I think he was looking for verification that the list was right.
09:45:42peturdon't know if 'incomplete' is also 'not right'
09:45:48LloreanAs in, whether those targets had the necessary hardware for those features.
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09:46:00LloreanBut I'm not sure.
09:46:29peturI'll edit it to make it more clear which ones I'm sure of
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11:23:16pixelmaumm... does someone intend to fix the red for the Nano and Video?
11:28:06peturMarcGuay should....
11:28:25JdGordonhe's a bit asleep :p
11:28:37pixelmaI guess he's sleeping though...
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11:30:15JdGordonI like his initiative and all.. but I
11:30:32JdGordonbut i'm not so sure he should be commiting patches yet...
11:31:08peturwell you certainly shoud check the result of your commit before going to sleep....
11:31:11JdGordoni mean.. he got access for the manual yeah?
11:32:08pondlifeHopefully this will teach him to check... ;)
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11:32:18pixelmano, the c100 port I believe
11:33:09pondlifepixelma: If I include your patches (so the manual builds) would it be ok to commit the H300/M5/X5 RTC support - ?
11:33:26yeahxwhat cool stuff could the 3G nano do if it got hacked do you think?
11:33:31pondlifeI don't totally understand RaeNye's comment though..
11:33:58pixelmapondlife: I'm not sure for the X5 and M5 because the bootloader needs to be prepared for it
11:34:00pondlifeyeahx: Thst's off topic hear, but I suspect it could make nice sandwiches
11:34:23yeahxyeah I was going to ask in ipodlinux but its dead
11:34:35pondlifepixelma: OK, well I might leave it then.. don't want to just commit part of the job really.
11:34:50yeahxI wish my 1st gen nano hadnt locked up right when I was doing stuff with rockbox
11:35:14pondlifeLocked up? It's unlikely to be bricked, unless you squashed it or something...
11:35:23yeahxI went 2nd gen after that and then won a 3G at work and was sad that it didnt get hacked yet
11:35:27bertrikCan anyone familiar with rbutil/sansapatcher look at a patch I just made?
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11:35:48bertrikThe patch is at
11:35:54yeahxwell I went to lock it based on someones suggestion, and no matter what I did it would not unlock
11:37:35pixelmapondlife: currently (with the latest released bootloader) the Iaudios will turn on but switch off immediately after that again because they only check for a button press and not whether it was an alarm that caused the boot
11:37:55yeahxI was going to use my best buy replacement plan to use it to get a new ipod, but by the time I was going to get around to that it was gone
11:38:25yeahxbut yeah, someone told me to set it to lock while starting rockbox and that was it
11:38:35yeahxIm sure it was a hardware thing
11:40:34yeahxsorry for hi-jacking, I'll shut up now :)
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13:03:50Tuplanollarbutilqt finnish translation is almost done :)
13:05:11markunright in time for rockbox 3.0 :)
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13:54:45TuplanollaGenerated 457 translation(s) (457 finished and 0 unfinished)
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13:56:18Tuplanollathe guide says to "post the *.ts gile to the tracker", how is that done?
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14:01:09GodEateris there a task for the finnish translation already ?
14:02:03GodEaternot for rbutil it would seem
14:02:13GodEaterso just open a new task in flyspray, and attach your .ts file to it
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14:11:53Tuplanollaah, like this: ?
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14:12:17GodEaterTuplanolla: that looks perfect ;)
14:12:43GodEaterthank you very much for doing it
14:15:12Tuplanollayeah, thanks :)
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15:09:39RealNitroSay I want to buy a nice, flash-based mp3/ogg player that runs rockbox, in europe
15:09:44RealNitroWhat should I buy?
15:10:42Tuplanollasansa e2x0 would be nice if there wasn't v2
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15:11:01LambdaCalculus37But there's always eBay, if you're looking for a Sansa v1.
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15:11:19RealNitrohmm, k
15:11:35LambdaCalculus37Just ask the seller to tell you what firmware version the Sansa is running. If it's 01.XX.XX, you're in the clear. If it's 03.XX.XX, move on... it's a v2.
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15:26:02mcuelenaere\o/ \o/
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15:26:43ender`heh, what's that bloody thing? :)
15:26:49mcuelenaereOnda VX747
15:27:04ender`(though i'd say dusty, not bloody :)
15:29:55*LambdaCalculus37 gives mcuelenaere a beer
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15:31:27mcuelenaerestill it's all rather weird, I can only display text on the lower part (like only the last 10 pixels)
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15:35:45bertrikwhat happens if you try anywhere else on the screen?
15:39:10*mcuelenaere thinks he (partly) found the displaying bug
15:39:32mcuelenaereif I write the data to the framebuffer 3x and do lcd_update() 3x it does the intented behaviour
15:39:47JdGordonmcuelenaere: nice work :)
15:41:57bertrik\o/ nice
15:43:27LambdaCalculus37Even nicer!
15:43:46JdGordonmcuelenaere: really getting tempted to get me one of them now... too bad im useless when it comes to hardware coding
15:43:56mcuelenaereyeey I got a stable text drawing routine :) :)
15:44:25mcuelenaereJdGordon: there's GPL source code provided for the HW ;)
15:45:08JdGordonoh well thats cheating then isnt it :D
15:45:53mcuelenaereit's the only documentation available :)
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15:51:50Nico_Pmcuelenaere: congratulations? how did you do it?
15:52:15Nico_Perr the first '?' was supposed to be a '!' of course
15:53:21mcuelenaerethanks all :) I got printf() almost working! (well some implementation of it)
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16:02:01agaffneyis it normal for linux fdisk to bitch about the CHS and LBA values not matching for the partitions on the sansa e2xx?
16:02:25agaffneyand is it safe to just reformat the first partition and restore the contents?
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16:38:53preglowif someone wants to look at the study mode rename patch before it goes in, now is the time:
16:44:17JdGordongets my vote
16:44:30mcuelenaereok rudimentary touch screen handling & button handling works
16:44:41mcuelenaereanyone against me committing this?
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16:46:03preglowJdGordon: you can see no funkiness with settings/menus in there? i don't get that stuff too well
16:46:32preglowprimarily due to never using it :>
16:47:18JdGordonnot in my cursory glance... Ill have a more proper look though
16:47:51*JdGordon hates having to have those formatters at the top of setting_list.c
16:48:31preglowJdGordon: me too
16:48:39preglowJdGordon: but i can't be bothered to code a general formatter now
16:48:54JdGordonok, settings stuff looks fine
16:48:57preglowor at all, for that sake
16:49:02preglowJdGordon: excellent, in it goes, then
16:49:16preglowif i can remember my svn password.......
16:49:27JdGordonim not saying it was bad to put there.. im saying that was a bad decision on my part to begin with :/
16:50:04preglowJdGordon: yeah, but one that be redone, no? we do need formatting functions, but one that doesn't need two function pointers per item would be nice
16:50:13preglowone that can be redone <-
16:50:26JdGordonno reason it cant be fixed
16:50:37JdGordonjust needs time and inclination :/
16:58:16pixelmaMarcGuay: re. your earlier question about the usable options in the manual - the platform files are not the only source now anymore, there is also the features.tex which gets parsed from the features.txt used for the lang file generation. I added that to during the DevCon weekend
16:58:45preglowi don't need to bump any settings stuff for this, no? the old study mode settings'll just be ignoreed?
16:59:51JdGordonnot settings.. maybe the plugin api though
17:00:03MarcGuaypixelma: Ah, very nice, thank you.
17:00:29JdGordonyep.. you changed the global_settings struct... min plugin api gets bumped
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17:04:20MarcGuaypixelma: If I wanted to add an item to that list, it seems I need to bump a version of the langs/voices. How would I go about doing that?
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17:06:48pixelmasorry, I don't understand the question
17:07:28MarcGuayJust from reading the header on that file, it sounds like something needs to be changed in the langs and voice files if you modify it.
17:08:01preglowthat dir/playlist limit set bug isn't fixed yet, is it?
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17:11:00pixelmaMarcGuay: are you asking about the mic recording related language strings, how to exclude them etc.?
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17:13:04MarcGuayI ws just wondering if I could create a #ifdef HAS_MIC_REC.. Ah crap, that would require a rework of the coinfig define business, never mind.
17:14:10MarcGuayTrying to find a nice way to treat targets that have line-in but not mic-in. Might not be worth the trouble after all..
17:15:50stdmcuelenaere: are you told about GPLed code provided by the HW manufacturer? 0_o
17:16:45Nico_Pmcuelenaere: better to set svn:eol-style to native too
17:17:23mcuelenaereNico_P: ok, just a "svn propset svn:eol-style [FILE]"
17:17:31mcuelenaerestd: yes
17:17:43Nico_Psvn propsert svn:eol-style native FILE
17:18:15Nico_Pit will make the files CRLF under win and LF under *nix
17:20:35mcuelenaerestd: you are talking about Ingenic, right?
17:26:58preglowBagder: around?
17:28:31 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
17:29:46LambdaCalculus37preglow: Remember what we had discussed yesterday about difficulties compiling on Mac OS X?
17:29:54 Quit K4rP4D ("Leaving")
17:31:07LambdaCalculus37preglow: I found this... with a link to FS #9006.
17:32:16preglowyeah, that was the flyspray entry i talked about
17:33:34LambdaCalculus37preglow: Think that it should be committed?
17:37:38 Quit mcuelenaere ()
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17:42:23bertrikdomonoky: you know a lot about rbutil, right?
17:42:49 Nick borges is now known as borges|afk (
17:43:02*domonoky wrote about half of it, so i know a lot of it :-)
17:43:19preglowwhat does that tool do that requires the elf header?
17:43:48agaffneyis it normal for linux fdisk to bitch about the CHS and LBA values not matching for the partitions on the sansa e2xx?
17:43:59agaffneyand is it safe to just reformat the first partition and restore the contents?
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17:45:11bertrikdomonoky: can you have a look at this patch: ? It's a minor fix to sansapatcher but it may also affect rbutil, so I ask to be sure.
17:46:53domonokybertrik: should not really affect rbutil, so should be fine...
17:47:25bertrikok thanks
17:47:47LambdaCalculus37preglow: elf.h isn't present in Mac OS X, according to FS #9006. I see that tools/creative.c needs it.
17:48:34LambdaCalculus37FS #9006 is elf.h, but still requires a tiny tweak to tools/creative.c for it to completely work.
17:50:23preglowLambdaCalculus37: i'm just wondering what it needs elf.h for, it's a weird dependency for most programs
17:51:01bertrikagaffney: I have no idea, but I think in general it's better to avoid formatting an audio player unless absolutely necessary
17:51:43 Quit DaCapn ()
17:52:12LambdaCalculus37preglow: I'm wondering, too. But it looks like the Creative builds need it for some reason or another; maybe ask mcuelenaere when he comes back?
17:52:50PaulJamhmm, rockbox should have a way to rate multiple files at once. the current method is really inconvenient. :/
17:53:36preglowLambdaCalculus37: it looks like that file uses very little of elf.h. the proper fix would be to include just those defines in creative.c itself
17:54:35LambdaCalculus37That's what FS #9006 does.
17:54:53preglowbut if it writes elf files, it doesn't sound very platform independent anyway, we should ask maurus if it makes sense to compile it on os x at all
17:55:13LambdaCalculus37preglow: Righty right, then.
17:59:55agaffneybertrik: I could swear I read somewhere that it's sometimes necessary on the sansa, because people start getting weird characters in their file/directory names
18:00:05agaffneyand I've been having my sansa freeze up on my randonly
18:01:15LearFreeze when? Like, when doing something in particular (e.g., starting playback)?
18:01:32agaffneyusually in the middle of a song
18:01:38agaffneyit was fine for about a month
18:01:44GodEateragaffney: that doesn't mean you need to format
18:01:44agaffneyand then started doing it every few songs
18:02:00agaffneywell, there are some...interesting...things that come up with fsck.vfat
18:02:09agaffneyand the partition layout is...screwy
18:03:16agaffneyfdisk and fsck.vfat really don't like this device
18:03:18GodEateris fsck refusing to fix the "interesting" things it's reporting ?
18:03:57GodEateranywhere you read that formatting is "necessary" on the sansa was either not here, or written by a complete moron
18:04:09agaffneywell, I can't find what I read previously
18:04:17 Quit std ()
18:04:20agaffneyso I can't verify what it said
18:04:25GodEaterso fsck is reporting that the two FATS are different
18:04:41agaffneyno, not the FATs
18:04:42GodEaterwhich means the FS is corrupt, which means it needs fixing. Choosing option (3) will just leave it broken.
18:04:44agaffneythe boot sectors
18:05:01agaffneythe FAT isn't in the boot sector
18:05:11agaffneyGot 3833344 bytes instead of 3898644 at 3916288
18:05:13GodEaterstill, it needs fixing
18:05:18agaffneythat's the final output from fsck.vfat
18:05:32GodEaterare you always cleanly unmounting your device before unplugging it from USB ?
18:06:06agaffneyhowever, I haven't even written anything to it in over a month
18:06:12GodEaterdo you use Rockbox's file commands at all ? (i.e. cut / paste or delete) ?
18:06:12agaffneyand this problem only showed up about a week ago
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18:06:41GodEaterso have you tried asking fsck to actually fix this ?
18:06:57agaffneywell, which option do I choose at that question?
18:07:16GodEaterwell if you're worried, why not dd the entire partition somewhere
18:07:18agaffneyI assume the worst that could happen is I have to put rockbox and my music back on there
18:07:21GodEaterand then you can try both answers
18:07:33agaffneybut that just makes sense :P
18:07:35GodEaterI'd go with option 1 though
18:08:08 Join Thundercloud [0] (
18:08:14*agaffney gives is a try
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18:12:29agaffneyit's still complaining about the bootsector not matching on the second run
18:12:39agaffneyafter copying the original to the backup
18:13:43agaffneystill didn't do anything on the second pass
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18:20:30agaffneyGodEater_: even more weird...chkdsk on XP doesn't find any problem with the device
18:20:39agaffneybut the MUSIC folder doesn't show up when browsing
18:20:47agaffneyit shows up on my linux machine
18:20:48LambdaCalculus37The MUSIC folder is hidden.
18:20:59LambdaCalculus37Make Windows show hidden files.
18:21:03agaffneyoddly, that folder doesn't show up in the rockbox file browser, either
18:21:04agaffneyah, ok
18:21:09agaffneynot so odd, then :P
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18:23:52agaffneyfsck.vfat is still bitching about the boot sectors not matching
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18:29:19PaulJamwhat exactly is the meaning of this "Prereq button code" in the keymaps? does that mean that when this was the previous button reading then the action gets ignored?
18:32:15PaulJami was wondering, because i noticed on H300 the buttoncombination PLAY + UP/DOWN to bring up the pitch screen only works when pressing the UP or DOWN button very quickly after pressing down PLAY. If PLAY is held too long before pressing the other button then the pitchscreen doesn't come up. i don't think this is intended.
18:33:07amiconnIt is intended.
18:33:20amiconnLong Play obviously has another meaning
18:33:42PaulJamwhat does long play do on H300?
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18:35:16amiconnI don't know
18:35:36amiconnBut since there is that prerequisite code, I presume there must be something
18:42:00PaulJamhmm, i can't find anything. long play seems to only be used in the radio screen. the manual doesn't mention anything either.
19:02:35amiconnHmm, if there is nothing on long Play, it makes no sense to have the pitchscreen on a combo. Just put it on long Play ...
19:05:15PaulJami would prefer if long play stayed unused, because it is used for various other combos.
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19:22:36estel_hi guys
19:23:23estel_i'm using rockbox and tried to play a mpeg video, but now it hangs
19:23:31 Join PaulJam__ [0] (
19:23:47estel_i'm using an sansa san disk e200
19:23:52bluebrotherso ... you want to reset the player?
19:24:00 Quit Lambduh ("Leaving")
19:24:04estel_the aequivalent to a reboot
19:24:07bluebrotherhold power for quite a while
19:24:17estel_i tried it for at least 10 seconds
19:24:31bluebrothertry again ;-)
19:24:40bluebrotherit does work, but it sometimes needs quite a while
19:24:43estel_ah, tnaks
19:24:51 Quit daurn ("Cyas")
19:24:53estel_must have slipped of
19:25:12bluebrotherhappens. The buttons on the e200 are somewhat hard to press
19:25:38estel_but it's quite cheap as a mp3 player
19:25:47 Quit PaulJam (Nick collision from services.)
19:25:47estel_with rockbox as firmware it's really cool
19:26:04 Nick PaulJam__ is now known as PaulJam (
19:26:05bluebrotherwithout Rockbox I wouldn't have bought one ;-)
19:27:50 Join Lambduh [0] (n=Lambda@
19:28:26estel_hmm, the video file keeps crashing on my desktop box, too
19:28:48scorche|shsesit takes 15 seconds actually ;)
19:29:15scorche|shif it crashes on your desktop as well, that should suggest something is wrong with the file itself
19:29:34scorche|shBagder: ping
19:29:39estel_codecs ;-)
19:30:04estel_well, i've tried to convert a (bit buggy) divx video to mpeg
19:30:18estel_the mpeg now crashes some of my video players
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19:35:10scorche|shNOTE to all mentors: even if you do not have a student, you still have a survey to fill out
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19:35:41scorche|shBagder: LinusN *needs* to get his review in *now*
19:36:21LambdaCalculus37estel_: What did you use to convert the video?
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19:37:07LambdaCalculus37estel_: Windows? Mac OS X? Linux?
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19:37:25estel_mencoder works on win32?
19:38:06LambdaCalculus37IIRC there's a Win32 version as well.
19:39:00estel_any suggestions how to convert it?
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19:42:11PaulJamestel_: have you read the PluginMpegplayer page in the wiki? it has some suggestions on how to transcode for rockbox.
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19:48:21toedis there a way to use the 'myriad' font on rockbox? i own a copy in postscript OTF, can i use this with rockbox?
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19:48:54bertrikamiconn: you mean that the bus to the display on the c200 is physically only 8-bit wide?
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19:56:41amiconnImo a media player should never crash on a bad file
19:57:08estel_it shouldn't, but many do it
20:00:28wpyhwhy are some plugins enclosed (mostly) inside an "#ifdef HAVE_LCD_BITMAP"?
20:01:07Bagderscorche: I've poked him
20:01:20scorche|shBagder: can he get it in within the hour/
20:01:33BagderI guess, but I'm not sure
20:02:04*scorche|sh schedules another poke in 30 minutes
20:03:12 Join fml [0] (n=4fd3db30@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
20:03:36*fml wonders where Nico_P disappeared yesterday
20:04:27scorche|shBagder: does the web app also show you unassigned mentors who havent submitted theirs?....although theirs arent completely necessary and we can write off with an excuse
20:05:00Bagderno it doesn't
20:05:41Nico_Pfml: I had things to do
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20:06:02fmlNico_P: I guessed that
20:06:12fmlno problem
20:08:28pixelmawpyh: I have been told that this is an old remnant of the time before the SOURCES file existed
20:09:05pixelmaand there is one target which has a charcell display (the Archos Player/Studio)
20:12:05GodEater_wait - unassigned mentors have to do a midterm too ?
20:12:10wpyhpixelma: thanks
20:12:27wpyhdoes that mean we should clean up the mess and use SOURCES instead?
20:15:58 Quit petur ("switching")
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20:16:10*bertrik implemented LCD inverse mode for the c200, if that's useful for anything anyway
20:17:29amiconnImo inverse mode isn't very useful on colour targets
20:19:49amiconnI know it's implemented for some of them. Does anyone ever use it?
20:20:07LinuxMafiai just bought a philps mp3/video player
20:20:43bertrikI never used it, but then again I think I still use only 20% of rockbox possibilities. IMO, it's more of a technical gimmick than a genuinely useful feature
20:21:05 Join Nibbl [0] (
20:21:30LinuxMafiayeah it does not have philps at all in
20:21:49scorche|shLinuxMafia: all working targets are listed on the front page
20:22:11LinuxMafiascorche|sh, yeah i see there is no philips there
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20:24:05bertrikamiconn: when searching for HAVE_LCD_INVERT in the config-<target>.h files, it looks like 21 out of 27 targets implement it
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20:26:49DerPapstbagder: ping
20:27:24*wpyh wonders if someone is interested in optimizing bubbles
20:27:30wpyhit's too slow
20:27:44scorche|shboost the cpu
20:27:52wpyhthat's not optimizing it :p
20:28:43scorche|sheither way, i doubt it is going to be a very high priority for could always have a go at it ;)
20:29:18wpyhpixelma: I see that bubbles.c is already inside SOURCES, surrounded by "#ifdef HAVE_LCD_BITMAP". in that case I think we should remove the ifdef inside bubbles.c itself
20:29:25wpyhscorche: well.. let's see...
20:29:44wpyhdo you devs prefer an extra newline at the end of a source file?
20:29:57DerPapst gcc preferes it :P
20:30:33pixelmabertrik: how many of those are colour targets?
20:30:34wpyhuh, I mean like ....}\n\n at the end of a file
20:30:39 Quit estel_ (Remote closed the connection)
20:30:58pixelmabertrik: I mean have a colour screen... ;)
20:31:01wpyhthe first \n will be displayed in vi, the second one hidden by vi
20:31:44bertrikpixelma: I don't know, I'll have to look that up
20:32:32linuxstbwpyh: I'm not sure if bubbles needs optimising as such, but it at least needs some code to make it attempt to play at the same speed on all devices...
20:33:11wpyhlinuxstb: surely it couldn't be too hard to make it equally jerky on all targets? ;)
20:33:26wpyhseriously, do you mean the timer is different on different targets?
20:33:35pixelmait should make an attempt to play at the same "speed" when boosted or unboosted
20:33:40linuxstbThere's a timer?
20:33:49wpyhyeah, the timer before the ceiling drops
20:34:21wpyhpixelma: um... maybe we can do it after we optimize the code?
20:35:08linuxstbwpyh: Do you own more than 1 Rockbox device?
20:35:19wpyhI do have a Nano and a Video
20:35:35linuxstbHave you compared Bubbles?
20:35:55wpyhwhat should I look for?
20:35:57pixelmawpyh: about the ifdef - I don't think it is very important but if you work on the plugin anyways it could be removed (my opinion)
20:36:34wpyhpixelma: ok, and it doesn't have an effect anyway, with the SOURCES file
20:37:19wpyhlinuxstb: I do notice that bubbles on the video is very jerky
20:38:04scorche|shboost the cpu...
20:38:13bertrikpixelma: if I counted correctly, 4 out of 9 color targets can invert
20:38:28LambdaCalculus37wpyh: That's to be expected, I guess. The iPod video does have a larger screen to draw, and like scorche|sh says, boot the CPU.
20:38:47wpyhlet's see
20:41:24wpyhit's very fast
20:41:42wpyhbut if I play an mp3 while playing, then it sometimes get jerky
20:41:59*wpyh wonders why his english is so broken today
20:42:14*LambdaCalculus37 clicks the Dyslexia Ray off again... who keeps turning it on?
20:43:07wpyhI'm hoping we can optimize the code
20:43:15wpyhthen fix the speed problem
20:43:23wpyhmaybe we can do both at the same time :)
20:43:43scorche|shwpyh: i really doubt it will be done unless you do it yourself
20:43:53bertrikyou'll have to know which part of the code has the biggest impact on speed
20:44:16wpyhscorche: I was hoping someone addicted to bubbles would do it, but well...
20:44:23wpyhbertrik: I guess I'll just guess...
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20:48:12amiconnbertrik: On some of them we won't be able to implement it (e.g. on ipod Video) due to lack of lcd controller docs
20:48:16 Quit midgey ()
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20:50:15Strife89May I ask what became of Invadrox?
20:50:55Strife89I noticed it on
20:51:04Strife892007-01-31: Invadrox, a Space Invaders clone.
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20:52:23bertrikamiconn: on those targets we can simply keep HAVE_LCD_INVERT undefined
20:52:52bertrikHow about I implement LCD invert for c200, but keep it disabled for now?
20:53:11amiconnYes of course. The point I am wondering about is whether it makes sense to have lcd inversion on colour targets
20:53:34LambdaCalculus37Strife89: It's still in Rockbox.
20:53:57amiconnIf it does, it should be implemented on all targets where we can do it (without extra effort, i.e. only if the lcd controller has a setting for it)
20:54:05Strife89Oh.... I never saw it in the manual or on any target sim.....
20:54:06 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:54:09amiconnIf it doesn't, it should be removed for all colour targets
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20:54:30pixelmaStrife89: it does not have a port to small lcd (min is 160x128 if I remember correctly)
20:54:52LambdaCalculus37pixelma: No, but he's rights... I don't see it listed in the manuals.
20:55:09*LambdaCalculus37 will take care of that
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20:55:38fmlamiconn: I'd remove it. It only means more code and more menu entries and doesn't effectively provide a new functionality.
20:55:39bertrikthe little guy with the pitch fork on my left shoulder says "implement, it's cool!", the little guy on my right shoulder says "nah, it's a silly gimmick" :P
20:56:22amiconnOn monochrome it's somewhat useful. Less so on greyscale, and even less on colour
20:56:24fmlIt's only a feature for the sake of it (and because the HW would make it possible to implement)
20:56:51bertrikfml, exactly
20:57:04Strife89Even on color targets, it would be useful for text reading (IMHO). :)
20:57:07bertrik(for colour targets)
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20:58:47wpyhdoes anyone know how bubbles_bubbles.h is generated?
20:58:55wpyhuh, bubbles_bubble.h?
20:59:14tucozI wonder what you think about chapter 5.3 (recent bookmarks) in the manual. Should that really be there?
20:59:24tucozIt says ": This entry is not shown in the Main Menu when the option is off and the option is off by default. "
20:59:30fmlbertrik: but you're right: it's cool! :-) And it also would be a doc for the lcd controller.
20:59:39 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
20:59:57bertrikfml, there's a datasheet for the controller... there's where I got the idea :)
20:59:59 Join midgey [0] (
21:00:11DerPapstmey LinusN
21:00:15DerPapst*hey :P
21:00:20LinusNhey ho
21:00:25*LinusN is on vacation
21:00:36pixelmatucoz: I'd rather want it at least enabled by default and would even prefer it to be static even though I don't use bookmarks outside of testing purposes
21:00:50scorche|shLinusN: how is the mid-terms going? ;)
21:00:51DerPapstLinusN: ah.. then you're probably not able to make a commit to wWW ;)
21:01:09tucozpixelma: i see. do you think that will happen?
21:01:18 Join midgey_ [0] (
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21:01:20LinusNscorche|sh: so, so, but there is hope methinks
21:01:44scorche|shwell, you were failing him, yes?
21:02:04scorche|shhe came in here last night or so saying that he would certainly expect that
21:02:23linuxstbwpyh: I'm guessing it's generated from a bitmap - the appropriate bubbles_bubbles.bmp in apps/plugins/bitmaps/native/
21:02:34 Quit neddy (Connection timed out)
21:02:37pixelmatucoz: the former yes, the latter... I don't know
21:02:50 Quit borges (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:03:00tucozpixelma: anyways, i've been updating screenshots for the manual lately. i guess i could update that as well. it's just so friggin boring to do that ;)
21:03:37pixelmalinuxstb, wpyh: or from apps/plugins/bitmaps/mono
21:03:44 Join Vorador [0] (n=tomas@
21:03:55wpyhok, I found it inside apps/plugins/bitmaps/mono
21:04:00*wpyh finds it weird
21:04:17pixelmatucoz: that would probably be the reason why no one did that yet ;)
21:04:19wpyhit may be because I'm new to RB though
21:04:34 Join ap0 [0] (
21:04:45tucozwhich reminds me. there is a context-menu entry missing from chapter 4.1.2. Context Menu. Namely "set as backdrop" or something like that
21:04:56linuxstbwpyh: What's weird?
21:05:12pixelmawpyh: I think it's because bubbles_bubble is the outline of the bubble, it is in "mono" because it should use the mono bitmap drawing functions
21:05:25tucozpixelma: i know. hopefully cabbie2 will still
21:05:47tucozpixelma: be the standard theme for the 3.0 release :)
21:07:05wpyhlinuxstb: it's not straightforward −− why not just use some array? we don't expect the bubbles to change anyway :p
21:07:14wpyhpixelma: I'll take a look
21:07:59amiconnwpyh: It is an array, but it's generated at build time from a bmp
21:08:15wpyhah, there seems to be a broken bubble: 112x64x1
21:08:43amiconnTry using your array method with all the various resolutions and colour depths... it'd quickly become an utter mess
21:08:55*wpyh thinks amiconn has a point
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21:09:24pixelmawpyh: why broken bubble?
21:09:31wpyhit's not symmetric
21:09:45amiconnNo it's not, and for a reason.
21:09:49amiconnIt's not broken
21:09:57amiconnThe archos lcd has non-square pixels
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21:10:13pixelmaI know (I drew it) - it is on purpose to get as much of a bubble as it could be on the small and weird screen
21:10:17wpyhI mean, it's not mirror-symmetric
21:10:20pixelmaI tried a lot
21:10:26wpyhoh ok..
21:10:40a-journey-in-thehi there...
21:10:49a-journey-in-thewow thats a lot of people
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21:15:24 Join Arathis [0] (
21:17:09a-journey-in-thehey guys, i've got a question...
21:17:47 Quit ap0 ("Bye.")
21:18:03a-journey-in-thei've got this philips gogear hdd6320
21:18:22 Quit merbanan ("Leaving")
21:18:42a-journey-in-theit seems to me it is fairly similar to that other gogear that's going to be supported
21:18:52a-journey-in-thedo you know anything about it?
21:19:16 Join neddy [0] (n=john@nat/sun/x-c26b78c74c8deea4)
21:19:44scorche|sha-journey-in-the: what did you wish to know?...the only discussion about that target that should be going on in here is talk about working towards a rockbox port
21:20:37a-journey-in-theyes, what i want to know is whether i'll be able to use rockbox with that player...
21:20:51scorche|shyou cant atm
21:21:06a-journey-in-thei know that
21:21:24a-journey-in-thebut there will be a port to the philips gogear sa9200
21:21:33LambdaCalculus37One is in progress.
21:21:33scorche|shthere might be
21:21:48scorche|shit is in progress...that doesnt guarantee a port
21:22:06a-journey-in-theand i wondered whether it will be possible to use that same port with my player too
21:22:41LambdaCalculus37I don't think you would be able to.
21:22:55LambdaCalculus37The HDD6300 series are a little different internally.
21:22:55a-journey-in-thehmm... too bad...
21:23:12a-journey-in-theyeah, that's what i wondered about ;)
21:23:34 Join hannesd [0] (
21:23:50a-journey-in-thebecause i installed rockbox on my old olympus m:robe
21:23:54a-journey-in-theand i love it
21:24:10scorche|shno you didnt
21:24:21 Join mcuelenaere [0] (n=mcuelena@rockbox/developer/mcuelenaere)
21:24:50LambdaCalculus37You do know that the Olympus m:robe 100 port was only available since March of this year, right?
21:25:08mcuelenaerepreglow, LambdaCalculus37: I implemented elf->Creative binary conversion because I thought it could optimize binary size, but apparantly it didn't have the effect I wanted it to have
21:25:29a-journey-in-theno i didn't know that so far
21:25:36mcuelenaerethere's even this side-effect which makes the binary sometimes about 1900 bytes bigger (as can be seen in the delta table)
21:25:48 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
21:26:01mcuelenaereso there's (for some reason) some quirkiness with it, so it can either get optimized or removed
21:26:26LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: Can you have a look at FS #9006? The elf implementation is interfering with the build process on Mac platforms.
21:26:37Strife89I've been looking at the Invadrox code.
21:26:49a-journey-in-thehmm kay, so what's wrong with the m:robe port?
21:26:55mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37: yes I saw that, I don't know what's the best solution for that
21:27:05mcuelenaerewhy exactly isn't elf.h available on Mac OS X?
21:27:30Strife89.... And the Brickmania code.
21:27:31LambdaCalculus37a-journey-in-the: Well, for one, there's no m:robe 500 port. And like I said, the m:robe 100 was only a supported target since March of this year.
21:27:53LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: Beats me. This is my first serious dive into Mac development.
21:27:57a-journey-in-theyeah, so? i've got the 100 version
21:28:08a-journey-in-theinstalled it toda
21:28:33mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37: but it does compile when the header is available? so this means there's a lib for it on Mac?
21:28:36scorche| sounded like you had it a while back
21:28:41a-journey-in-theah ok
21:28:52Strife89I mentioned Brickmania to someone around December and they enabled c200 support for it pretty quickly. :) Obviously it didn't have its graphics fixed for the c200 before then.
21:29:07a-journey-in-theyeah, i've got the player in 2003 or something like that
21:29:24a-journey-in-thebut i found out about rockbox today and installed it...
21:29:49a-journey-in-theand the thing is i really hate the philips firmware...
21:30:17LambdaCalculus37a-journey-in-the: Well, at least you have one target for now. Be patient and let people finish the GoGear ports, or help us out with them.
21:30:39a-journey-in-thewell, how can i help?
21:30:43LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: No, it craps out when it tries to compile anything.
21:31:20mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37: but doesn't the solution in FS #9006 works?
21:32:50mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37 (or any other Mac OS X user/developer): do you have a libelf.h file somewhere?
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21:34:07LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: I haven't tried FS #9006 yet. I will tonight.
21:35:15k4ymcuelenaere: did you sort out the lcd stuff on the onda?
21:35:46mcuelenaerek4y: with a workaround
21:36:06mcuelenaereso it's not completely done, but I can get some text on it
21:36:59 Quit midgey_ ()
21:38:15a-journey-in-theLambdaCalculus37: how can i help? ;)
21:38:15Strife89a-journey-in-the: All sorts of ways, but the best way involves providing as much technical data on your DAP as possible and/or helping to actually code for it.
21:38:46a-journey-in-thei could try to get some info, yes...
21:38:53LambdaCalculus37Or even testing work-in-progress code, and reporting bugs.
21:39:28Strife89a-journey-in-the: Yes. Or heck, even work on device-specific manual/Wiki pages
21:40:11Strife89Dang, I'm a slow typer today........
21:40:19a-journey-in-theah yeah, i saw some missing paragraphs in the wiki page about m:robe
21:41:04Strife89Fill 'em in, if you want (or tell me what's missing :) )
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21:42:45Strife89a-journey-in-the: What's missing?
21:42:50 Part LinusN
21:43:04a-journey-in-theahm hold on ;)
21:44:24Strife89a-journey-in-the: Just so you know, I don't own an m:robe, so I know nothing about it, really.
21:44:25a-journey-in-theoh, no, it's not in the wiki
21:44:41a-journey-in-thebut in the man pages
21:45:38Strife89Oh, the manual..... I don't have the power to mess with the manual, unfortunately. :(
21:45:39a-journey-in-thefor example the sound settings page is not complete
21:45:53a-journey-in-theok... bad luck ^^
21:46:04Strife89I think that's incomplete for EVERY target.
21:46:28a-journey-in-thethat's nothing special then ^^
21:46:46a-journey-in-thebut still, the essential things are there...
21:46:56Strife89Anyway, the manual's in the realm of the SVN (A.K.A. the Rockbox source code).
21:47:14 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
21:47:17a-journey-in-theah ok
21:47:29 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:47:38a-journey-in-thewhat language is the code written in?
21:47:48Strife89The Wiki is a separate, more accessible entity.
21:48:12a-journey-in-theok... i've had an introduction to c++...
21:48:19mcuelenaereLambdaCalculus37: I think I've got a solution which works, I'll post it in FS #9006
21:48:30Strife89Lambda: Which I promised I'd try to learn, but I have ultimately slacked off. :(
21:49:04a-journey-in-theStrife89: i had to learn it for the university...
21:49:34a-journey-in-thebut haven't coded anything big in c or c++
21:49:51LambdaCalculus37mcuelenaere: Okay, I'll check it out when I get home later.
21:49:53Strife89a-journey-in-the: I'm starting college in August.
21:50:04a-journey-in-theah cool ^^
21:50:25a-journey-in-thei'm starting 3rd semester now...
21:50:40a-journey-in-theof my computer science studies
21:51:31PaulJam_please use #rockbox-community for social chat.
21:52:12Strife89PaulJam: Sorry. :(
21:52:12Strife89Anyway, look at the invadrox.c if you want, journey. It's well commented.
21:52:33a-journey-in-theok cool
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21:55:36preglowmcuelenaere: so, might as well remove the elf stuff then=?
21:58:13preglowmcuelenaere: elf.h isn't available on mac because macs don't use elf
21:58:50 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (" ajax IRC Client")
21:58:55preglowmcuelenaere: anyway, even if you decide to keep the elf stuff, i'd appreciate it if you remove the elf.h dependency by moving the definitions you need inside creative.c
21:59:17mcuelenaerepreglow: seen FS #9006?
22:04:02preglowbut that just seems to bundle another elf.h
22:04:11preglowdo you use so much of it that bundling a whole elf.h makes sense?
22:04:12mcuelenaereI mean my comment
22:04:57preglowoh, need to reload, then
22:05:30 Quit Arathis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:06:14preglowyou make it sounds unreasonable that mac's dont come with elf.h, it really isn't :)
22:06:34mcuelenaereisn't elf.h part of UNIX?
22:06:36preglowbut yeah, that's a much smaller elf.h for sure
22:06:42preglowi don't know
22:06:50preglowbut os x is fully unix compliant, i think
22:07:01mcuelenaereyes I know about that
22:07:07preglowsounds weird for it to bundle the header for a file format it doesn't support, though
22:07:13mcuelenaereat least, apple claims so
22:07:28mcuelenaerebut they use another file format AFAIK
22:07:36preglowyeah, the mach format
22:07:43 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:08:36mcuelenaereok then ignore my comment :)
22:09:12preglowbut anyway, if the patch works, just commit
22:09:30 Join anathema [0] (n=none@
22:09:39mcuelenaereactually, I haven't tested it on Mac OS X
22:09:42mcuelenaereas I don't have it
22:09:55mcuelenaere(I just commented the elf.h #include out)
22:10:01mcuelenaerebut it *should* work
22:10:59preglowi don't have a dev env in os x, so can't test it either
22:11:33 Join massiveH [0] (
22:12:51massiveHdoes anyone have input on
22:13:07webmindhmm, would anyone have any use for archos player parts?
22:13:27mcuelenaerewebmind: I think there's a wiki page dedicated for that
22:13:44webmindwould you know which? :)
22:14:00mcuelenaereperhaps SpareParts?
22:14:13mcuelenaereyep :)
22:16:47webmindhmm, can't edit wiki without posting my real name with it?
22:17:34mcuelenaerewebmind: do you already have a wiki account?
22:17:43webminddon't know to be honest
22:17:49webmindit's been a while
22:18:18webminddoubt it
22:18:19mcuelenaerewhat's your name?
22:18:28 Join GodEater [50] (n=bryan@rockbox/staff/GodEater)
22:18:28webmindwebmind usually
22:18:38webmindsometimes it's Sebastian
22:18:42mcuelenaerefor the Rockbox wiki, you need to provide your real name
22:18:45webmindbut I rarely use that
22:18:46 Quit Mathiasdm ("Invisible Internet Project:")
22:18:49mcuelenaere(first and last name)
22:18:53webmindthat's what I said
22:19:07webmindI'll think about it :)
22:19:27mcuelenaereyou could also send a message to the mailing list?
22:19:36webmindthat's an option too
22:19:39webmindbut no hurry :)
22:20:40 Quit m0f0x ()
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22:22:28tucozpreglow: still around?
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22:23:26 Quit culture (Success)
22:23:57preglowtucoz: sure
22:24:32tucozI think that we should change the first line in this chapter to say something about that the main menu is what you are presented with when you start rockbox.
22:25:01tucozhowever, i need a little help with the wording
22:25:14 Part Strife89
22:27:52preglowwell, i don't see the need for anything fancy
22:28:08 Quit m0f0x ("reconnect")
22:28:22stripwax"The Main Menu is the main screen in rockbox. You will see this first when you start rockbox."
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22:28:43stripwaxof course, that ignores the fact that the Startup Screen can be changed
22:28:50preglowstripwax: needs to be mentioned, of course
22:28:54tucozme neither. but i am stuck. i can not remember if we are neutral, or address the reader as you
22:28:54 Quit Nibbl ("Leaving")
22:29:13stripwaxok ,"This is the first screen you will see when starting rockbox"
22:29:31tucozstripwax: oh. i didn't know that. but i think we should write the manual for a vanilla rockbox install
22:29:48tucozstripwax: sounds great. i'll use that
22:29:52preglowWhen you first start Rockbox, you will be presented with the Main Menu. The Main Menu allows you to access all other functions in Rockbox.
22:30:10preglowor what stripwav said, yes
22:30:10preglowit's all good
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22:30:21tucozyep. thanks guys
22:30:28*preglow needs a swede
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22:32:00*preglow finds a bunch of small manual updates on his linux box
22:32:30Bagderpreglow: you called sir?
22:33:00 Quit desowin ("KVIrc 4.0.0 Insomnia")
22:33:35preglowBagder: would you be as kind as to msg me my svn password? :>
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22:52:01preglowshould we use the verb "boot" in the manual? wouldn't a word like "start" or "execute" be more familiar to most people?
22:52:59stripwax"turn on" or "start" gets my vote
22:53:06stripwaxexecute is not a good word...
22:53:10linuxstbtucoz: Do you think it's worth adding "by default" somewhere in your new sentence? This would be a way to suggest to users they can change that behaviour...
22:53:12Bagdermy wife looks at me strangely when I say I boot my computer
22:53:25*linuxstb would think that most people understand "reboot", and hence "boot"...
22:53:36Bagderthey don't, they say restart
22:53:54linuxstbOK, ignore me then, I'm stuck in the 1980s ;)
22:53:55stripwaxor "turn it off an on again". especially when reboot for ipod can mean menu+select...
22:54:35stripwaxlinuxstb - also "by default" is not great. "Although this can be customized" is much better...
22:54:48linuxstbBut I'm not against using technical terms in the manual, as long as they are explained. We use the term "bootloader" everywhere (or boot loader....)
22:54:55stripwaxnah that's fine
22:55:22stripwaxPeople likely won't think they know what a bootloader is, but they might think they know what reboot means
22:55:47*linuxstb thinks we're probably not the best people to answer these questions
22:56:05*preglow pours himself a double ipa and fondles the manual a bit
22:56:46stripwaxShould the rockbox manual be made a bit more 'street'? :)
22:57:10bluebrotherwrite it gangstah style? ;-)
22:58:02bluebrotherI think adding an appendix explaining technical terms would be a nice thing ...
23:00:13preglowi've already started using the terms "bitch", "foo'", "punk" and "nizzle" extensively in the manual
23:00:45preglowand am experimenting on how best to fit "playa" in
23:02:28preglowi'm starting to think we should drop the 80 col rule for manuals. i hate reformatting entire paragraphs just after having inserted a couple of words
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23:05:41bluebrothermaybe make it a soft rule −− paragraphs should not exceed 80 columns, but are allowed to unless it gets too excesively?
23:05:43preglowred delta :/
23:06:07preglowwhy make it a soft rule?
23:06:24 Join Nibbl [0] (
23:06:29preglowa rule should only stay as long as it makes sense, and i don't think it makes much sense for text, like the manuakl is
23:06:34preglowfor code, i agree it's sensible
23:06:43bluebrotherto avoid 200 characters wide lines
23:06:53tucozand to easier spot changes
23:07:00tucozin the diffs
23:07:01preglowwhy are 200 character wide lines bad in this context?
23:07:10pregloweditors can easily wrap text
23:07:12preglowbut not code
23:07:28bluebrotherwell, but not all editors cope nicely with indentation.
23:08:05MU{lappy}as a non-developer (for this particular project), my unimportant opinion is that reasonable line-wrapping in editors can be assumed
23:08:14preglowi sure think so
23:08:30MU{lappy}the vast majority of the programming world disagrees w/ me on line lengths and tabstops, though.
23:08:34preglowtucoz: spotting changes in the diff will not be affected much by long lines
23:08:42tucozif there is a small change in a line, it's hard to spot where it is in the diff, if the line extends to an entire paragraph
23:08:49preglowtucoz: indeed, changes are hard to find when much of the diff is just shuffling lines around to ckeep the 80 col rule...
23:08:49*scorche|sh wonders where tucoz has been =)
23:09:14*stripwax completely agrees with preglow
23:09:14bluebrotherpreglow: I disagree. I find it much harder spotting changes in wiki diffs (which usually are long lines) than in the current manual diffs (which are shorter)
23:09:29*stripwax completely agrees with bluebrother too. hmm.
23:09:29MU{lappy}preglow: i see the point he's making, if hard-wrapping causes a dozen more lines to change, it's very hard to see in the diff what has actually changed.
23:10:00preglowbluebrother: i had to actually write sentences out to long lines to spot where the actual difference was in a diff i had here...
23:10:08bluebrotherand that's the reason I talked about a soft rule: if you need to shuffle the whole paragraph only because you entered one word it makes sense to have a longer line
23:10:19preglowbluebrother: since so much of the diff was just the same stuff being moved around to reformat the paragraph to the margin
23:10:46bluebrotherI agree that reshuffling because of a hard limit isn't a good thing
23:11:13preglowbluebrother: ok, so SOME lines are allowed to break the limit? that makes no sense, then. it'll look like shit after a year
23:11:46MU{lappy}allow edits, but not new paragraphs, to break the limit
23:12:07MU{lappy}break the line on insert only when you have a reasonable portion of a whole line
23:12:08bluebrothertrue, but then someone could simply make a reformatting commit which doesn't change the content at all
23:12:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:12:26preglowbluebrother: well, that sounds sensible, but will it happen?
23:12:42preglowbluebrother: can you imagine a more boring task? :)
23:13:30bluebrothermake some script / editor automatically do it.
23:14:20tucozscorche|sh: Thing is, i've only got a h100 that i rarely use. i think that is why i have been away for some time
23:14:27ender`<bluebrother> true, but then someone could simply make a reformatting commit which doesn't change the content at all <- aren't such commits frowned upon, because somebody could hide unwanted changes in them?
23:14:28amiconnIf you edit a paragraph anyway, you can easily reflow it to keep the 80 char limit ...
23:14:32preglowi wouldn't trust it to a script, they have a hard time picking out what to leave on its own line
23:14:35preglowi've tried
23:14:46preglowamiconn: easily, yes, but it wastes time
23:14:55stripwaxAny diff utils that can diff within the lines?
23:14:56amiconnHow much? 5 seconds?
23:15:16preglowamiconn: 15 or so, *shrug*
23:15:20preglowi just think its pointless
23:15:34preglowbut anyway, i'm now wasting more time discussing it, i was hoping for a series of quick "i agree"s :)
23:17:09bluebrotherpreglow: I've seen patches with a paragraph being a whole line. This makes it quite hard to review it so I don't agree that completely dropping the limit would be helpful.
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23:17:34preglowbluebrother: it's hard to review, but not harder than a diff full of reflowed lines
23:17:37tucozwell, as i felt it when i was working on the manual was that it was better to have a few >80 chrs lines, than tabs and crlf. tabs are a pain
23:17:38bluebrotherand the reason behind people writing such paragraphs is simply editors inserting soft line breaks, so the user doesn't notive.
23:17:45preglowbut it's obvious we don't agree about that, so let's not discuss that aspect, heh
23:18:43amiconnThe 80 chars limit is not only important for editors, but also e.g. for diffing in ViewVC
23:19:09preglowyes, and i've already explained that i find diffing reflowed lines really annoying, since it's hard to find the actual change. not so with one long line, or at least not so much
23:19:40amiconnWith long lines, ViewVC produces ugly line breaks
23:19:44preglowfinding the actual change when most of the change is reflowed lines is almost impossible, at least for me
23:20:28preglowbut to just cut this short i think i'm going to follow bluebrother's advice and not reflow anything
23:20:51bertrikI think the 80 character limit is out-of-date, but reaching consensus on a new (higher) limit is probably impossible
23:21:11*preglow uses 80 char wide editors and terminals
23:21:16preglowi think that limit is completely ok
23:21:25preglowi'd be ok with a new limit, but i think 80 is preferable for now
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23:25:57 Part tucoz (""good night"")
23:26:39preglow80 chars is such a nice way to remind you you need to refactor your code into more functions too :>
23:27:04Bagder80 limit is not out of date for code
23:27:10preglowhear hear
23:27:25*linuxstb stands next to bertrik
23:27:52Bagderthere are basically two approaches to code, one is 80 and the other is "as wide as my screen can show"
23:28:02Bagderor possibly a third: even wider
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23:28:18linuxstbOr a 4th, somthing a bit bigger than 80...
23:28:21preglowdid anyone fix the dir/playlist max size memory corruption bug?
23:28:54preglowi can't seem to trigger it any more
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23:32:57preglowis there a consensus on ize vs ise, btw? i can see both in the manual
23:32:57*bluebrother spots that this unspeakable study mode is gone :)
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23:33:22amiconnThe manual should use british spelling iirc
23:33:24bluebrotherthe manual should be british english ... I think we used ise in the past.
23:33:26amiconnI.e. -ise
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23:33:49bluebrotherwasn't that a reason for discussion ize being correct in british english too nowadays?
23:34:15preglowise is a french influence, i think
23:34:19preglowize was the first to appar
23:34:23preglow(this is just what i think i remember)
23:35:11obo-ise is the normal day-to-day british usage
23:35:19preglowthen that is what we1ll use
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23:35:50*preglow loves his new mac keyboard quirks :/
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23:36:02stripwaxthe 1 is near the ' ?
23:36:11 Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
23:36:57linuxstbDo you have a # symbol?
23:37:26preglowstripwax: ' is where the pipe is on pc keyboards
23:37:34preglowlinuxstb: #
23:37:42 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]")
23:38:00linuxstbAh, must just be UK keyboards - we have a GBP symbol, but no #...
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23:40:11*stripwax doesn't understand .. ###
23:41:06*bluebrother has # left of enter
23:41:11preglowanother mac keyboard quirk, i'd guess
23:41:17preglowbluebrother: freaky...
23:41:39bluebrothernah, just the german layout.
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23:44:13kushal1could you tell me how recording in rockbox in sansa c250 works? does rockbox record in wav and compress the file when done recording?
23:45:25bluebrotherkushal1: encoding is done during recording. But I don't know the details ...
23:45:44LloreanYou only need enough space for the compressed recording
23:45:49 Join PaulJam [0] (
23:46:00*preglow now has the dubious pleasure of translating his own "skip length" to norwegian...
23:46:02kushal1Llorean, that's awesome
23:46:46Lloreankushal1: It wouldn't make sense any other way.
23:47:12LloreanWe've had an mp3 encoder plugin for a while, so incorporating it into the recording system itself wouldn't have made much sense if you still need to do the encode pass afterward and reserve ridiculous amounts of space
23:47:54preglowwouldn't make sense, but you bump into plenty of ad-hoc solutions when dealing with open source projects
23:48:10preglowso the question is merited :)
23:49:02LloreanI thought the mp3 encoder plugin WAS the ad-hoc solution. :P
23:49:49preglowi want that plugin removed, btw
23:49:55mcuelenaerecan anyone tell me how big a normal lcd controller is?
23:49:59preglowi hate duplicate code :)
23:50:03 Join troy_ [0] (n=toppy@
23:51:23amiconnmcuelenaere: ?
23:51:24preglowmcuelenaere: pretty small, sometimes sealed in a lump of whatever they make chip casings of
23:51:44amiconnThe actual controller is often a COG on the lcd module itself. Pretty small thing
23:52:13mcuelenaereCOG->Chip On Glass?
23:52:14preglowamiconn: cog? new word for me
23:52:25amiconnmcuelenaere: yes
23:53:06 Join Xqtftqx [0] (i=40e9e3d2@gateway/web/ajax/
23:53:11XqtftqxHey guys
23:53:13 Quit hannesd (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:53:22mcuelenaerehmm pretty small like a quarter of the size of a mini-usb connector?
23:53:56 Quit Nibbl ("Leaving")
23:54:16Xqtftqxthats small
23:58:34 Join bertrik_ [0] (

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