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#rockbox log for 2008-07-17

00:00:34MarcGuayIs it possible to install a dual-bootloader the Gigabeast?
00:00:43MarcGuay*on the
00:00:51Nico_PMarcGuay: yes, but we can't distribute it
00:00:53 Join buckycat [0] (n=fxckoff@pool-96-236-133-198.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net)
00:01:04 Quit davina (Remote closed the connection)
00:01:30MarcGuayCan I extract the original nk.bin myself?
00:01:53linuxstbOnly by physically removing the disk... (afaik)
00:01:57 Part buckycat
00:02:05 Join CyBergRind|w [0] (n=cbr@212.98.160.130)
00:02:26MarcGuayAnd if I install the Rockbox only version, I lose the ability to charge?
00:02:40linuxstbAt the moment, yes.
00:03:11MarcGuayAre there any ideas on how to get around this?
00:03:32swearsmarcguay, I have dualboot
00:03:38swearson gigabeat s
00:03:54linuxstbFor dual-booting, we can only rely on third-parties hosting the required OF nk.bin file.
00:04:07linuxstbFor charging, I'm sure that will get implemented at some point.
00:07:18 Quit [CBR]Unspoken|w (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:07:55 Quit shotofadds (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:08:05swearsactually, when I hook my gigabeat up to the car charger w/ rockbox
00:08:10swearsit charges to 60%
00:08:15swearsvery strange
00:08:24 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:10:14Nico_Pswears: the OF barely ever spins the disk down
00:10:38 Quit votetrev (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:10:41Nico_P... which is a total waste of battery
00:10:43swearswhat's OF?
00:10:52Nico_Poriginal firmware
00:10:56swearsgotcha
00:11:12swearsthat's why it changes tracks fast?
00:12:20swearsbut,I changed disk spin down time to really high in RB, and it has no effect on track change time
00:13:29 Nick shot0fadds is now known as shotofadds (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds)
00:14:14Nico_Plet me try a comparison
00:14:21swearsk
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00:23:13 Quit ender` (" Light a fire for a man, and he's warm for a day. Light a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.")
00:23:49Nico_Pswears: unbuffered skips are slow in the OF too
00:24:35Nico_Pthe OF actually seems to have far worse buffering than we do
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00:25:20swearshmm
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00:27:12swearsNico_p are you using the gigabeat s?
00:27:20Nico_Pyes
00:27:31swearsand it doesn't take 3 seconds to change the track?
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00:27:51Nico_PI'm not saying rockbox doesn't. I'm saying the OF does too
00:28:17swearsyeah but not 3 seconds
00:28:29 Quit Zarggg ()
00:28:40swearsw/ RB, when I hit next or previous, it graphically shows the title of the next track right away
00:28:50swearsbut it won't hear anything for a while
00:28:59swearsall my crossfade delays are on 0
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00:32:13scorche|shswears: i assume you are using a hard drive device?
00:32:19swearsyes
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00:33:17Nico_Pswears: it might be a teeny weeny bit slower with rockbox, but honestly I think it's barely noticeable
00:33:22scorche|shit takes time to spin up the drive
00:33:35swearsno, it really is MUCH slower.
00:33:44swearsthat's the only reason i'm concerned
00:33:51swearsif it was barely slow, I wouldn't really mind
00:34:04scorche|shskip once so the drive spins up, then try skipping a few more times...it should be much faster, yes?
00:34:15swearsdont think so, but let me try again
00:34:35Nico_Pswears: I think you're not doing a fair comparison. you need to make sure the OF does an unbuffered skip too
00:34:47Nico_Pa buffered skip in rockbox and in the OF is instantaneous
00:35:20Nico_Palso be sure to use tracks that don't have silence in the beginning
00:35:21swearsis that enabled by default?
00:35:28swearsyeah, i know =p
00:35:32 Quit votetrev (Remote closed the connection)
00:35:45scorche|shenabled by default?...huh?
00:35:47 Join votetrev [0] (n=trev@host-56-58-107-208.midco.net)
00:36:01swearsbuffered skip?
00:36:08 Quit votetrev (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:36:11scorche|shbuffered in ram
00:36:14swearsrigh
00:36:15swearst
00:36:21 Join votetrev [0] (n=trev@host-56-58-107-208.midco.net)
00:36:34swearsso, when you play a song, it automatically loads the next queued song into the ram?
00:36:59scorche|shwhen you are skipping, you are likely skipping to a track that is not yet buffered, so the drive needs to spin up (which takes time) to buffer it
00:37:18scorche|shswears: it depends on how much space the song takes up
00:37:26swearstrue
00:37:53swearsbut if i'm not using shuffle, and assuming the tracks from the same album are very close to each other
00:37:59Nico_Pwhen the disk spins up, rockbox buffers as much audio as possible
00:37:59swearsshouldn't that go quite fast?
00:38:04swearsok, i see
00:38:18Nico_Ptrack order or proximity doesn't make a difference
00:38:19scorche|shswears: shuffle doesnt matter...it is still one playlist
00:38:26swearsok
00:38:45swearsIf i change the skip protection to a small amount, will that leave more room for the next song?
00:38:53swearsin the ram
00:39:00Nico_Pswears: you might want to look at the buffering debug screen to get an idea of what's happenning
00:39:13swearsok, where can I find that?
00:39:21Nico_Pswears: no. that's something else. as much RAM as possible is used
00:39:35scorche|shswears: you might want to try defragmenting your drive...it could speed things up if your drive is fragmented
00:39:45Nico_Psystem > debug > view buffering thread
00:39:47MarcGuayTo install the Gigabeat S bootloader from Windows I run a command prompt an execute "sendfirm.exe nk.bin"?
00:39:54MarcGuay*and
00:41:45 Quit k4y_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:41:49Nico_Pswears: from my timings the difference appears to be around half a second
00:41:55swearswow, that's good
00:41:55 Quit d-k-t-2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:42:38Nico_Por even no difference at all
00:42:47swearsyeah, so it's definately my device
00:42:56swearsdoes your "back" button work while in "Now Playing"
00:43:04Nico_Pan unbuffered skip takes ~3 seconds in both rockbox and the OF
00:43:23swearsok, so I dont have buffered skips
00:43:34swearswill try defragmenting
00:44:02Nico_PI have dircache enabled and very few files
00:44:23Nico_Palso, no crossfade
00:45:10swearsi disabled crossfafe, but it makes that ugly trackchange noise
00:45:16swearsstill not faster though
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00:45:56swearscrossfade*
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00:52:19 Quit n17ikh|Lappy ()
00:54:34swearswow, i just realized, when i don't hit "skip"
00:54:38swearsand let it play on it's own
00:54:38 Quit votetrev (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:54:42swearsit changes very fast
00:55:40scorche|shright...because it is buffered
00:55:59scorche|shin fact, it should be "gapless"
00:56:35massiveHusers of iriver h300 series players should take a look at forum post http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17202.0
00:56:40massiveHit may be very useful for you
00:57:10scorche|shmassiveH: do not spam/promote your unsupported builds here please
00:57:38massiveHscorche|sh, I am spamming nothing, did you even see what it does?
00:57:40swearsahh, I see the difference now
00:58:07scorche|shmassiveH: it is an "advertisment" for an unsupported bootloader
00:58:32massiveHscorche|sh, well, it may be unsupported, but it should be in the main tree (the features at least)
00:58:51scorche|shthen put a patch in flyspray and draw attention to that
00:59:16massiveHI'm sorry, I have no idea how to create patches.
00:59:30scorche|shthere are instructions in the wiki
01:00
01:00:11massiveHok, but this is something I would like to draw attention to, and putting it here for constructive criticism, is where it should be put, unless this isn't the rockbox irc...
01:00:20scorche|shWorkingWithPatches
01:00:56scorche|shmassiveH: if you want to draw attention to it and want it in SVN, make a patch and submit it to the tracker as i said
01:01:26massiveHwhat is wrong with drawing attention to it here?
01:01:44 Join votetrev [0] (n=trev@host-56-58-107-208.midco.net)
01:01:48scorche|shthe issue is what you are drawing attention to....we need a patch...not an unsupported bootloader
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01:02:10scorche|shand the patch should be in flyspray so we can comment on it there/can track it
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01:02:21massiveHok, I'll go try and figure that out.
01:03:45swearsanyone know what happened to the gigabeat s installation manuals?
01:03:50swears(dead links) atm
01:04:07scorche|shswears: there were installation manuals?...the instructions should be in the wiki
01:04:23swearshttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatSInstallation
01:04:25swearsStep 4
01:04:54swearswould like to figure out why my "back" button won't work in "now Playing"
01:05:18scorche|shit wont work?
01:05:35swearsno
01:05:45scorche|shis it a hardware issue?
01:05:48swearsi mean it works, just not in "now playing"
01:06:08swearsdoes nothing
01:06:58 Quit Nibbl ("Leaving")
01:07:22scorche|shodd...perhaps you can wait around for someone who knows a bit more sabout the current status of that port...keep in mind that it hasnt been deemed complete enough to be added to the official list yet
01:07:47MarcGuayscorche: it looks like the manuals were being built for a bit but have disappeared.
01:08:16swearsschorche|sh: i know it's not complete, I like testing it though
01:08:51swearsI wish there were a seperate chan for just gigabeat s installs
01:08:52scorche|shMarcGuay: it does appear that way...i was referring to his actual issue though
01:08:59swearslooks like the forums don't get updated that much
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01:13:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:19:59MarcGuayis there a button press for the hard reboot on the beast or is it the battery switch only?
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01:21:39swearsu mean hold down power button?
01:21:44swearsor battery switch?
01:22:37MarcGuayi tried holding down the power button (on a data abort error) and got nothing. battery switch did the trick.
01:22:48swearsoh
01:23:14swearsThe only way to get it out of the original firmware is by using the battery switch, because I dont think it ever really turns off
01:23:32swearswhich can be really annoying
01:23:41MarcGuayI got the error in Rockbox. All is well.
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01:34:30 Quit d-k-t (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:39:10massiveHscorche|sh, is this more of what you were looking for? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9202
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02:00
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02:06:46Soapscorche, I want folders i can organize forum PMs in.
02:08:28MarcGuaySoap: That bad? Should I ask to have the Expert tag removed?
02:09:13Soapno no no
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02:42:04swearswhat color depth are backgrounds?
02:42:05swears16?
02:42:30swearsnevermind
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04:49:12sdubois92I am trying to install on a 30gb ipod, but when i reboot it, it doesnt work
04:49:58sdubois92I copied .rockbox to the ipod, and ran ipodpatcher, and everything went fine, but when i rebooted, i got the standard ipod menu
04:50:56scorchewas there any sort of text between?
04:50:57JdGordondid ipodpatcher say it was successful?
04:51:02sdubois92JdGordon: yes
04:51:09sdubois92[INFO] Bootloader installed successfully.
04:51:48sdubois92http://pastebin.com/m11038301
04:53:03MarcGuaysdubois92: Do you have the hold switch on?
04:53:18sdubois92MarcGuay: no.., hence i was able to reboot
04:53:33 Quit toffe82 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:53:50MarcGuayUnplugging the USB will often reboot the device, hold or no hold.
04:53:58scorchesdubois92: well, the bootloader install likely failed silently for some odd reason....could you try using rbutil?
04:54:43MarcGuayI ask because flipping the hold on is how the bootloader hears "I want the Apple firmware".
04:54:59 Quit shadoxx (Remote closed the connection)
04:55:19LloreanWhere did you get iPodPatcher. I thought our current bootloader version was 2.0, not 1.1
04:55:29sdubois92should i just remove the .rockbox, copy it again, unisntall the ipodpatcher and reinstall
04:55:36scorche.rockbox is not the issue
04:55:46scorchethe bootloader is
04:56:04Lloreanscorche: Actually, it might be.
04:56:10sdubois92well, i mounted /dev/sdd2 to copy my .rockbox file, but ipodpatcher installed to /dev/sdd
04:56:15scorcheLlorean: eh?
04:56:25LloreanIf I recall, bootloader 1.1 was after "don't update the screen" but before "it freezes if rockbox.ipod isn't found"
04:56:28sdubois92and when i tried to run ./ipodpatcher /dev/sdd2, it didnt work
04:56:34LloreanIt may be silently not finding rockbox.ipod and defaulting to OF.
04:56:47sdubois92rockbox.ipod is there
04:56:52scorcheLlorean: i would still call that a bootloader problem...it is an old bootloader
04:57:12Lloreanscorche: Yeah, but it's both, as if we get him updated he may still not have a validly placed rockbox.ipod
04:57:19Lloreansdubois92: You never answered where you got ipodpatcher from.
04:57:48sdubois92http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/ipodpatcher/linux-ppc/
04:58:11Lloreansdubois92: That's a very out of date file.
04:58:21LloreanYou should compile your own, or use RBUtil.
04:58:28sdubois92isnt that a gui tool?
04:58:33LloreanYes.
04:58:38sdubois92eh
04:58:39LloreanBut it's also more up to date.
04:59:14sdubois92can i get the sources and compile myself
04:59:28LloreanI wouldn't have suggested it if you can't...
04:59:30 Quit d-k-t-2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:59:47sdubois92without the gui
04:59:58LloreanYou can compile an up to date ipodpatcher binary.
05:00
05:00:08sdubois92without the gui?
05:00:22MarcGuayLlorean: Did you get my forum PM? I realize they're generally annoying but I thought it wise to remove that out-of-date Feature Request info, which I don't have to the powers to do myself.
05:00:28massiveHscorche, is this what you mean by a patch task? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9202
05:00:29Lloreansdubois92: Did ipodpatcher have a GUI when YOU ran it?
05:00:35sdubois92no
05:00:44LloreanSo why would you be asking me if you can compile it without the gui...
05:01:05LloreanMarcGuay: Yes, I just hadn't decided what I want to do yet (replace it, update it, just trash it)
05:01:26sdubois92because you said to use RBUtil, which is the gui, and i asked if i could compile ipodpatcher without the gui
05:01:33MarcGuayLlorean: Check.
05:01:48Lloreansdubois92: Ipodpatcher doesn't HAVE a gui. They're two different tools. RBUtil is not "a gui" it's "a gui tool" which is what you asked.
05:01:59LloreanRBUtil is a completely separate tool with integrated gui.
05:02:58MarcGuayWhy isn't that version up to date, but the one RBUtil has is?
05:03:12LloreanMarcGuay: We don't have anyone on PPC linux to compile it?
05:03:15LloreanAnd test
05:03:28MarcGuayI think we just found one.
05:03:32LloreanThere won't be a version of RBUtil for PPC linux either.
05:03:58swearsquestion, does the rockbox database display hidden files?
05:04:08Lloreanswears: The Rockbox Database doesn't display files.
05:04:19MarcGuayswears: Only if they have ID3 tags.
05:04:37swearshmm, is their a way to turn hidden files off?
05:04:44swearsso they don't show up
05:04:52Lloreanswears: They don't show up in the filetree if set to "supported"
05:04:58MarcGuayIn the file browser.
05:05:00swearsok
05:05:03swearsbut what about in the database
05:05:10*MarcGuay walks away
05:05:32*swears follows
05:05:45swearslol
05:06:00Lloreanswears: The database shows all the files you let it scan.
05:06:00MarcGuayWhat are you trying to do?
05:06:06LloreanDon't scan them, and it won't show 'em.
05:06:13swearsok, here's what i'm trying to do..
05:06:19swearsi want to have double of each file
05:06:26swearsso I can use both firmwares
05:06:38LloreanIf you're using the database, why do you need doubles?
05:06:44swearsbecause, in the playlist
05:06:52swearsit shows them as weird entries
05:07:02swearsit uses the actual files, instead of id3 track names
05:07:03LloreanWell, as i said, it will show all files you scan.
05:07:09LloreanSo use database.ignore to keep it from scanning your duplicates.
05:07:27swearsok
05:07:37swearsis that a setting?
05:07:57LloreanNo, it's a file, "database.ignore"
05:08:02swearsok
05:08:03MarcGuayCheck the database page in the wiki...
05:08:08swearsk
05:08:46MarcGuayWoops, not there. DocsToDo.
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05:10:03MarcGuayManual -> Browsing and Playing -> Database
05:11:44swearsyour the man
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05:13:41swearsyou're
05:13:41swears*
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07:06:38Ynzuhi
07:07:15Ynzujust came to ask is there any rom for rockboy available thats actually playable around?
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07:13:21scorcheYnzu: not from here
07:15:09Ynzuno i mean in general im not asking for anything
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07:16:32LloreanYnzu: It more depends on your player than anything else.
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09:41:29linuxstbAnyone with an iPod Photo (type 0 LCD) around?
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10:17:22Nico_Pis there a particular reason why dircache isn't default?
10:17:59LloreanIt's still a bit buggy in certain situations
10:18:03LloreanEspecially if you have a lot of small files.
10:18:24Nico_Poh :( I think it would really be a sane default
10:18:46LloreanIt would if you could be assured that it'd generate no matter what.
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10:19:38Nico_Pare there open FS bugs about the issues?
10:19:54LloreanHonestly, I don't know.
10:20:07LloreanI think there may be other issues (I seem to remember amiconn bringing something up)
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10:46:23GodEaterLlorean: you mean an issue besides "I don't like it, and I don't need it on the iPod Mini" ? :)
10:46:55LloreanGodEater: Yes, I remember there were technical issues.
10:47:02LloreanI *know* it doesn't like extremely large amounts of files.
10:47:33LloreanFor example, if you put the HVSC on it, I seem to recall that's enough files to break it.
10:47:44GodEaterHVSC ?
10:47:56LloreanHigh Voltage Sid Collection
10:48:11*GodEater remains looking blank
10:48:32LloreanIt's just a collection of SID files.
10:48:38LloreanSomething like more than 30,000 tracks
10:48:50LloreanBut it's not particularly big because they're SIDs
10:49:35LloreanBut it really doesn't matter what format the files are in. If you have a lot of files on your player, maybe because you're also using it as a disk for some purpose, it can run into problems.
10:49:47GodEaterinteresting
10:50:03GodEaterI've never run into an issue with it, and I'm sure I've got more than 30,000 files on my ipod
10:50:23LloreanAre you sure it's actually active?
10:50:29GodEatergod yes
10:50:40GodEaterthe file browser in unusably slow otherwise
10:50:48pixelmais it also an issue if the directory structure is too deep (e.g. the stats plugin has a problem with it)?
10:50:56LloreanDunno
10:51:17LloreanI'll have to try again sometime, maybe the situation has improved. I thought I tested it 3 or 4 months ago, though
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10:51:39LloreanMaybe dircache on by default can be a goal for 3.1
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10:52:48pixelmahmm... I think I read a commit message where someone highered the limit of subfolders but I'm not sure (if I remember correctly and what the number was)
10:53:39LloreanI wonder if it'd be possible to approximate the cache size.
10:54:54LloreanLike, on first boot of Rockbox (no config.cfg present) it says "Dircache will now initialize. This will use X MB of memory to improve browsing performance. Press Select to confirm or Power to cancel"
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10:57:59wpyhdo we have to handle a USB connected event everytime we wait for a button?
10:58:48wpyhI see that in solitaire.c, even in solitaire_help (which basically just shows the help text), it handles the USB connected event
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11:00:22markunwpyh: it's how the game gets stopped when you insert the USB cable
11:01:09wpyhso the plugin needs to be "cooperative"?
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11:05:41LloreanDo you mean "needs to be" in terms of "The software requires it" or "If I want my changes to be included"?
11:07:11bertrikI did some experiments on sansa c200 charging yesterday, doesn't make much sense to me yet
11:07:47bertrikI'll put the results in the wiki
11:09:35wpyhLlorean: none of them
11:09:45wpyhwhat I mean is: whether something bad will happen if I don't do that
11:09:55wpyhas in, some corruption or buttons freezing, etc
11:10:10linuxstbThe consequence is that Rockbox won't enter usb mode when you insert the usb cable...
11:10:41wpyhlinuxstb: but future usb events will still be handled right?
11:11:12linuxstbProbably, yes. But plugins should deal with USB correctly...
11:11:21wpyhlinuxstb: ok then...
11:11:27wpyhI'll keep the usb event there
11:11:28wpyh:)
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11:38:08PaulJam_Slasheri: i have a question about the "import changes" option of the database: when impoting, which runtimedata gets preferrred? the data from the textfile or that from rockbox? What i did was exporting the changes, them modifying the changelog (changed the rating values) and then imported the changes, but this didn't seem to work and i was wondering if i maybe did something wrong or if this is expected and i have to do a full initialzing in order
11:38:08PaulJam_to apply the changes.
11:40:45SlasheriPaulJam_: you have to start from clean db, then it should work. any changes to the runtimedata made by rockbox are always kept
11:40:58PaulJam_ok, thank you
11:43:28bertrikJdGordon, I took a look a function option_screen in option_select.c and was able to make it a lot simpler, can you have a look?
11:44:01JdGordonsure
11:44:58bertrikdo you want a diff or shall i just post that specific function somewhere (pastebin)?
11:45:50JdGordoneither or
11:47:19bertrikJdGordon, the diff is at http://pastebin.ca/1074201
11:48:06bertrikthe function is at http://pastebin.ca/1074202
11:48:18*JdGordon is always nervous with difs which are mostly - lines :p
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11:51:18Nibbl:)
11:52:17bertrikI think it's simpler and clearer now and the need for the changed and show_cancel flags is gone
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11:52:54JdGordonok, looks ok (although i have a massive headache so I'm just taking your word for that... )
11:53:10bertrikI tested it on c200 and e200 and it still works the same as the old implementation as far as I could see
11:53:35JdGordonok
11:54:31bertrikJdGordon, I'll take the blame and fix it if does turn out to have bug, ok? :)
11:54:40JdGordon:)
11:56:53pondlifelinuxstb: Looks like you've found a fix for the iPod Photo LCDs..? Do we know how to detect the type though?
11:59:12linuxstbpondlife: Yes, we always have done - there is different init code for the two LCDs already.
11:59:21pondlifeGood!
11:59:52linuxstbI've just read Uchida's comment - that was easy ;)
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12:00:00pondlifeOne bit, eh?
12:00:17linuxstbYes, and it took about 5 minutes to find it in a disassembly...
12:00:43linuxstbThere was the same sequence of LCD commands that we have in SVN,. but with that 1-bit difference.
12:01:35linuxstbI guess I should commit...
12:03:36pondlifeYep.
12:03:53pondlifeAny iPod 4G owners able to shed light on http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5826 ?
12:04:07pondlifeI suspect it's not a bug, but I don't know for sure.
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12:08:33PaulJam_pondlife: i was wondering about your comment in FS #9202. shouldn't the batterylevel be irrelevant when the charger is connected?
12:09:07PaulJam_(to spin up the disk)
12:09:33pondlifeSorry - I was thinking of USB, when you might still not be able to draw enough current. or has that issue been fixed now?
12:10:08pondlifeAFAIK the H300 doesn't enable high current mode over USB and this can mean that USB powering isn't enough in all cases...
12:10:28pondlifeI am only going on what I've read in here, and might have misunderstood
12:11:04LloreanCar Mode can't really be checked from the bootloader (or rather, shouldn't be)
12:11:26PaulJam_hmm, in the firmware there is a setting for that. but i don't know if the SVN bootloader takes 500mA.
12:11:47pondlifeAFAIK we only ever take 100mA on the H300.
12:12:15pondlifeI've always found USB charging to be much slower than mains.
12:12:42pondlifeLlorean: I agree, but I thought someone said we'd need to check from NVRAM for some reason.
12:12:57pondlifeI'm no expert though.
12:13:10pondlifeMaybe ask LinusN.
12:13:52Lloreanpondlife: NVRAM could be used so that it could be checked without needing to hit the disk
12:14:08LloreanWhich is a much more acceptable solution in cases where NVRAM can be kept in the EEPROM
12:14:45pondlifeYes, but I also thought there was a particular requirement for this before the H300 could have car mode.
12:14:59LloreanI don't think we use the EEPROM on the H300 yet.
12:15:03LloreanFor anything.
12:15:09pondlifeCorrect.
12:15:31LloreanSo yes, it would be a requirement for a bootloader to acknowledge car mode.
12:15:44peturEEPROM is used by the OF, which we need for flashing
12:15:52PaulJam_I'm not sure if the EEPROM should be used, the OF stores it's settings there (but amybe it doesn't use the whole available space)
12:16:01Lloreanpetur: cant' we reset the OF's EEPROM though?
12:16:16Lloreanmeaning we can use it for ourselves, and have a tool to "clean" it before you boot into it for flashing?
12:16:18pondlifeIIRC, I was wondering if the bootloader needed to be involved, or if car mode could be implemented without a bootloader change. There was a reason, sadly...
12:16:39peturthe OF does no testing on the EEPROM, I've seen it doe weird things when EEPROM got corrupted
12:16:46Lloreanpondlife: As long as there's bootloader USB mode, it needs to be involved, unfortunately
12:17:10Lloreanpetur: Does the OF use all of it?
12:17:14peturnope
12:17:16LloreanArguably we only need a single bit, at the moment.
12:17:38peturI remember that about half of it is FF
12:17:54pondlifeLlorean: I was more thinking of the non-USB powered case... i.e. just like patch #9202.
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12:19:17Lloreanpondlife: If I recall correctly, some players will encounter problems spinning up the disk if the battery is too low.
12:19:20LloreanI'm not certain though.
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12:19:38pondlifeYes, that was my recollection - hence my comment
12:19:45LloreanI know it's true for some of them.
12:19:54pondlifeI'm not sure if that only applied to USB or not though
12:20:06pondlifeSo it might be possible to do this for the non-USB case
12:20:19LloreanI'm pretty sure it'd be all or nothing.
12:20:30pondlifeYes, best to keep things simple anyway.
12:20:30PaulJam_but if the USB cable gets inserted the disk as to spin up anyway. either to enter booloader USB mode or to boot the firmware.
12:21:01LloreanPaulJam_: Bootloader USB mode means you don't need a working firmware to access the disk
12:21:07LloreanSo bootloader USB mode shouldn't be removed.
12:21:57pondlifeThe patch makes bootloader USB mode available if you hold a key down.
12:21:58PaulJam_of course it shouldn't (and i don't like the changes that this patch does concerning USB bootloader mode).
12:22:15*pondlife neither
12:23:00Lloreanpondlife: I don't object to the default behaviour of the bootloader be "ignore USB/Charger and continue onward" as long as holding some easy-to-hold button enters charge-without-spinup, or bootloader USB
12:23:27LloreanIt'd make car adapter mode work without removing options, and simply just be a slightly saner order of operations.
12:24:11pondlifeI think I'd want consistency too - i.e. you'd need to hold the same button for USB connection in normal operation (rather than just charge)... then there's consistency across targets to consider.
12:24:32Lloreanpondlife: You mean, "Inside Rockbox, the default behaviour should be to ignore USB too?"
12:24:37LloreanThat makes no sense to me.
12:25:03LloreanIf you plug in USB, and car mode is off, Rockbox will boot and still go into USB, so it's still "consistent" in that Rockbox still goes into USB every time you plug in a cable.
12:25:18LloreanThe bootloader USB is more or less just an emergency mode that you trigger instead.
12:25:48pondlifeTrue
12:25:55LloreanFor the iPods this could be the in-flash USB mode once the Rockbox stack is working, so that it doesn't have to be compiled into the bootloader.
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12:26:21PaulJam_since the H300 has a separate charger input, should the car adapter mode even influence the USB behaviour?
12:26:37LloreanOnce inside Rockbox, "USB plugin" behaviour should be determined by "Is sleep mode enabled?" and (in my opinion) "What has the user chose as their default plug-in behaviour?"
12:26:53LloreanPaulJam_: If it can charge from USB, it should, yes.
12:27:01LloreanUSB car chargers are very widely available.
12:27:04pondlifeYes.. that's a user preference as to whether they mainly use USB for charging or connection.
12:27:06Lloreanones suited for the H300 probably less so
12:27:27*pondlife has to reboot, brb
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12:36:54PaulJamcan the h300 theoretically differentiate between a connected USB charger and a PC?
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13:16:07amiconnlinuxstb: Wow, how did you find that?
13:16:39linuxstbIt turned out to be very easy - I just searched for "0xef" in a disassembly of the Apple bootloader, and almost immediately found that init sequence.
13:17:12linuxstb(with that one change compared to the code you took from IPL)
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13:31:56mcuelenaerecan anybody close FS #9180 ?
13:38:57linuxstbmcuelenaere: You should ask Bagder/LinusN/Zagor for developer rights on flyspray...
13:39:28linuxstbmcuelenaere: What revision was the code committed?
13:39:28mcuelenaerehmm I should..
13:39:30mcuelenaereBagder: ping
13:40:04mcuelenaerelinuxstb: r18032
13:40:31linuxstbmcuelenaere: OK, closed.
13:40:39mcuelenaerethx
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14:37:31LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Just updated my iPod color to r18082. Everything's displaying correctly again.
14:41:52linuxstbLambdaCalculus37: Yes, I saw your forum post.
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16:08:27kawdshi, i tried to charge my ipod nano 1st gen. and now it is stuck/completely dead, reset didn't help, any suggestions?
16:09:20LambdaCalculus37How long did you let it charge?
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16:09:51kawdsit charge the whole evening yesterday
16:10:09kawdsplayed for 30minutes
16:10:22kawdsand now i wanted to upload music and charge it
16:13:01linuxstbWhat happens when you try and reset it?
16:13:39kawdstried that several times, nothing happens
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16:13:57linuxstbHow long were you holding SELECT+MENU for?
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16:14:29kawdseverytime like 15sec
16:14:39kawdseven tried longer and shorter times
16:14:56kawdstried everything apple suggests :-)
16:14:57Nico_Ptheoretically, would there be a way to make flash memory accessible through a pointer?
16:14:59linuxstbTry holding for longer (30+ seconds), and also just keep charging it.
16:15:46linuxstbNico_P: It depends on the hardware interface, but normally you tell the controller which sector you want to read, and then read that sector one word at a time from a memory-mapped hardware register.
16:16:00kawdsdo i have to use a charger or can i use the usb-cable?
16:16:20linuxstbkawds: Either _should_ work, but with a charger you can be more confident.
16:16:41kawdshm, will try usb-cable, cause i don't have a charger :-)
16:17:14Nico_Plinuxstb: hmm so clearly there's no way to make an arbitrary length of data available? I'm asking because I'm working on a version of the buffering API that does (almost) direct access to the flash mem (no actual buffering)
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16:17:51Nico_Ppacket audio is OK with a static buffer, but I can't think of a way of making streamable audio work
16:18:07linuxstbNico_P: No. I think you would need a small buffer (one sector/page/whatever the unit of access to the flash is) to read the data into.
16:18:19PaulJamkawds: have you tried flipping the holds switch on and off again before resetting?
16:18:34linuxstbBut codecs expect up to GUARD_BUFFER_SIZE (32KB) available at once, so that would be a good size to make the buffer.
16:18:49kawdsyeah, hold-switch, menu+select, 5sec, 15sec, 30sec, etc.
16:18:56kawdsall of that :-)
16:19:00Nico_Plinuxstb: that's what I've made my static buffer, but some codec need to have the whole file
16:19:13linuxstbNico_P: Then they can't be played...
16:19:35linuxstbUnless the codec is modified to seek/read instead of expecting the whole file in RAM
16:20:16Nico_Pyeah then I'll focus on the codecs that don't need to be modified :)
16:20:58Nico_Pmy goal is to create an alternative version of buffering.c, so that no other change is needed for most cases
16:21:17Nico_PIt's already working although it has quirks
16:22:09Nico_PI don't plan on implementing album art either
16:22:21linuxstbkawds: If I was you, I would just plug it in to charge, and forget about it for 24 hours. I would also leave the hold switch on, so if it magically awakens, the Apple firmware starts.
16:22:37kawdsHold Switch on "ON"?
16:22:46kawdsso "Hold" is working?
16:22:47linuxstbyes
16:22:48kawds:-)
16:22:56linuxstb?
16:22:58kawdsok, will try that and look for a charger
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16:57:03linuxstbNico_P: Is your new buffering code stable enough to do a runtime test? I'm curious to see what impact a small audio buffer would have on our "large-mem" flash targets (Nano, Sansas).
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17:01:28Nico_Plinuxstb: not yet, no
17:02:03Nico_PI can't work on it ATM. I probably will this evening
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17:28:44sdubois92i am only able to copy my music to my ipod as root, how can i copy it as my regular user?
17:30:28pedrovSUSaiyan: it's probably not a rockbox issue :)
17:30:30PaulJamjust as you copy music to any other extenal harddrive
17:30:35pedrovsdubois92: ^
17:30:53sdubois92pedrov: but everything on the ipod is owned by root
17:31:10pedrovsdubois92: I guess that it's fat32 (vfat) ?
17:31:19sdubois92yes
17:31:33pedrovthen when you mount it, you should add -o uid=your_userid,ig=your_groupid
17:31:51pedrovs/ig/gid/
17:32:13sdubois92add that to the end of the mount command?
17:32:25pedrovmount -t vfat -o uid=[uid],gid=[gid] /dev/your_ipod /mnt/yourmountpoint
17:33:11sdubois92that just gives me the mount help menu
17:33:17GodEaterthis is definitely not a rockbox question
17:33:29GodEaterplease either take it to a PM, or to a linux channel
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17:52:58jpt9Hey guys.
17:53:07jpt9I've been using a 2GB MicroSD card in my Sansa e250R with Rockbox.
17:53:53jpt9I'm thinking of getting an 8GB MicroSDHC card. Does Rockbox work with MicroSDHC cards (as opposed to regular MicroSD)? How about the original firmware? Thanks.
17:54:07scorche|shrockbox: yes OF: no
17:54:09GodEaterRockbox words with MicroSDHC, the OF doesn't
17:54:09jpt9Also, in case you haven't heard it twenty bazillion times before, Rockbox is *awesome*!
17:54:25jpt9scorche: So I'd need to use a card reader?
17:54:30GodEateryou would
17:54:36jpt9okay.
17:54:52*jpt9 goes and checks if the one built in to his ThinkPad would work...
17:55:08GodEateror go through the laborious route of copying music to the main memory, and then boot rockbox, use rockbox to move it to the card, etc etc.
17:56:39jpt9I'm still amazed that they can fit 8GB on a memory card the size of my fingernail...
17:56:59*LambdaCalculus37 marks jpt9's praise as Praise No. Twenty Bazillion and One
17:57:07jpt9lol...
17:57:26jpt9anyway... I'm going to head out and get some lunch...
17:57:36jpt9(Eastern Standard Time here, if you're curious)
17:58:05GodEaterwell they can fit 16GB on one the same size currently
17:58:11GodEaterand soon it'll be 32GB
17:58:12GodEater:D
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18:07:12amiconnGodEater, jpt9: Or compile rockbox yourself, enabling usb support...
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18:17:33ryan1991is there any way to make so rockbox works with a bose ipod dock?
18:18:40scorche|shit might work with outputting sound and changing volume, but that is the best you can hope for
18:18:51ryan1991ok thanks
18:20:46jpt9oh yeah...
18:21:21PaulJamryan1991: there is a patch in the works to make accessories work
18:21:44jpt9it'd be neat if you could map some button sequence to run config files (or pull up a menu of them). (Namely, to turn on voice menus while it's in my pocket. However, due to the beautifully designed config file system, you could probably make it do pretty much anything.)
18:21:45ryan1991any idea of what its called or do i have to resort to random googling
18:21:53PaulJamhttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8624
18:21:59ryan1991excellent thanks
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19:27:26sacarascWith the iPod 5th gen, will it still charge via usb if I install rockbox on it?
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19:43:19linuxstbsacarasc: Yes, but possibly slower when actually running Rockbox than when using the Apple firmware. But Rockbox doesn't remove the Apple firmware - you can "dual-boot" between the two firmwares.
19:43:39sacarascthanks
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19:45:28saratoga"svn commit -m apps/codecs/libwma -m "Use Tremor IMDCT for WMA."
19:45:33saratogaargh why does svn let me do this
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19:47:04bertrik-m twice ?
19:47:09saratogayes
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19:47:19saratogathe first is ignored and so is the path
19:47:24saratogaso it commited my entire SVN tree
19:52:10*linuxstb is disappointed not to see "rockbox-as-app" committed ;)
19:52:58saratogaah different tree fortunately
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19:55:30amiconnsaratoga: Happened to me too ...
19:56:07amiconnThe suggested solution is to not use -m at all, but then I don't know whether it will properly fire up an editor from within cygwin, and which one
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19:57:33saratogai'm having trouble reverting some of these changes
19:57:43saratogahow do i commit a revert for only some files?
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19:58:27amiconnI'd make a diff from the commit, cut all the changes that should stay, apply patch -r, then commit
19:58:35sacarascI'm having a problem running ipodpatcher (./ipodpatcher: /lib64/tls/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.4' not found (required by ./ipodpatcher)). Anyone know what to do here?
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20:00:45amiconnsaratoga: I am wondering about your speed comparision - iirc mp3 is faster than vorbis on arm, at least on PP5002
20:01:02linuxstbsacarasc: You could try rbutil (the GUI Rockbox installer - it does the same as ipodpatcher, but more), or compile ipodpatcher yourself from source.
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20:04:15saratogaamiconn: I actually didn't think to test the PP5002
20:04:59saratogathough given the PP5024 results (200% vs. 250%), I'd expect it to be at least somewhat faster
20:05:00linuxstbWhich ARMs did you test it on?
20:05:11saratogajust PP5024
20:05:32linuxstbWe now have many different ARMs - v4, v5, v6...
20:05:39saratogathough the IMDCT numbers for the Gigabeat F looked good as well, so I have no reason to doubt that its faster there too
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20:12:09linuxstbsaratoga: Is there a reason you didn't share the same source files, rather than making a second copy of files in Tremor?
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20:13:00saratogalinuxstb: I wasn't sure how
20:13:16linuxstbYou could have put them in the codec lib
20:13:20saratogaperhaps when FAAD gets this optimization, the IMDCT should be removed from all three codecs and put into it's own lib
20:13:43saratogawouldn't that waste memory on codecs that don't use the IMDCT?
20:13:55linuxstbNo, the linker would strip it out
20:14:52saratogaok i'll put that on my todo list
20:15:02saratogacleaning up that imdct to be less Vorbis specific would be nice too
20:17:09amiconnPP5002 is a bit special due to its broken cache. SO you say vorbis is faster than libmad on PP502x?
20:17:33saratogaamiconn: i've got a half broken 3G here
20:17:36saratogai'll try and test now
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20:19:42saratogahow do i adjust the contrast on the 3G? the screen is solid dark
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20:20:20amiconnsaratoga: Eh? What build are you running?
20:20:50amiconnYou could connect the G3 and edit config.cfg if you cannot do it blindly
20:21:21amiconnYou could also try to reset settings - perhaps you have a high contrast value from an old build set
20:21:44amiconnNewer builds should need lower contrast values, due to a better lcd controller setup
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20:25:28saratogathere we go, i'd forgotten how nice it is to have a screen that works without a backlight
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20:29:59saratogaamiconn: WMA_192K=184.97%, Vorbis_192k=184.40%
20:30:31saratogajust need to find the 192k mp3 sample
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20:34:18linuxstbsaratoga: The build table is still a little red...
20:37:51saratogafixed
20:38:00saratogaalso, wma is faster on pp5002
20:38:35saratogaat least at 192k (169.9%)
20:38:54midgeyBagder: around?
20:39:15amiconnsaratoga: What is that number? WMA without your commit, or mp3?
20:39:59saratogamp3 is 169.9% vs wma at 185%
20:40:31saratogalibmad is just slow in general on arm for whatever reason
20:41:00amiconnah
20:41:18amiconnI know that libmad is slow on arm, but somehow thought vorbis would be slower
20:41:49saratogavorbis is actually really fast, mostly because of its very good imdct
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20:42:12saratogai think if it were moved to faad, that codec would probably be much faster then mp3 too
20:42:16amiconnBtw, these results help making that old study regarding vorbis on PP5002 look even more funny
20:42:33linuxstbsaratoga: What are the figures for the three codecs on pp502x?
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20:43:09saratoga(from memory) 192k: mp3: 200%, vorbis 240%, wma: 250%
20:43:10linuxstbAlso, is there any difference in the relative speeds at lower bitrates? e.g. 128kbps?
20:43:34saratogathey all get faster at lower bitrates, but I never compared them head to head on the same sample
20:43:47saratogathe codecPerformanceComparison wiki page should have that info though
20:43:55*linuxstb goes to RTFW
20:44:06saratogathough its getting out of date
20:44:39bluebrotherhmm, what do people think about adding a spec file to rbutil sources for building a rpm? I might give it a go ...
20:44:48linuxstbThat page doesn't make it easy to compare things...
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20:47:27linuxstbbluebrother: Do people still use rpm-based distros?
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20:48:23bluebrotherme does ... ;-)
20:48:44bluebrotherand I think quite a bunch of people do too
20:49:11linuxstbOK :) It's just that I only hear people mention Ubuntu and Debian around here...
20:49:27saratogawow the coldfire aac numbers are insanely bad
20:49:45bluebrotheryou won't make me switch to ubuntu or debian. I don't like both of them ...
20:49:56saratogaape c2000 is faster then 192k AAC-LC
20:51:48*scorche|sh seems to remember a fedora sticker at devcon
20:53:27bluebrotherscorche|sh: it was a redhat sticker (had it lying around back the time I wanted to cover this nasty scratch on my laptop ;-)
20:55:31Learsaratoga: Only real optimization made is to put stuff into iram, as far as I know. Made it usable at least.
20:55:40linuxstbbluebrother: But going back to your question, various binary packages for rbutil can only be a good thing....
20:56:58*Lear recalls AAC improving noticeably with a newer GCC on arm...
20:59:18saratogaLear: really? how much
21:00
21:00:11LearDon't remember exactly, but I think it was something like 20-30%.
21:00:24LearThat was on a 4.3 snapshot though.
21:02:44saratogathat wouldn't surprise me, we use so much ASM in the codecs mostly because gcc does dumb things
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21:49:36saratogausing the vorbis imdct in libfaad would save about 7 MHz, boosting it from about 47MHz to 40MHz for real time on PP5024, though the gain might be better on Coldfire
21:50:12saratogawould basically make it about as fast as MP3 on PP
21:54:27LearAny idea why the FFT is slow?
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21:56:30Lear(Trying to building gcc 4.3.1 btw...)
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21:58:54linuxstbIs there a Coldfire version of the faad IMDCT?
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21:59:09saratogalinuxstb: theres a c version only
21:59:25linuxstbSo presumably that alone would be a huge improvement?
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22:00:10saratogayes
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22:00:57saratogathough the rest of the codec is still fairly slow, so the gain isn't as huge as you might expect
22:01:13saratogabut that could be fixed easily enough
22:02:27LearBtw, ffmpeg AAC is actively worked on, afaik. LC-AAC should be fairly complete, with SBR in the works. Not fixed point though...
22:03:00saratogafaad is actually worked on a little too, just we don't bother merging in improvements
22:04:33linuxstbI think working on faad is more useful than waiting for ffmpeg's implementation to be complete, and then porting to fixed-point...
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22:15:13LearHm, "impossible constraints" in libdemac with gcc 4.3.1...
22:16:51linuxstbWhich CPU?
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22:18:54LearSansa e200, is that PP5024 or something? The version that isn't arm7 specific compiles. Dunno if it works though.
22:19:41LearThe problem was in the vector_math16 header included from filter.c.
22:20:23saratogasansas are pp5024 and are generic armv4 (and also an arm7tdmi core)
22:20:38amiconnGcc sometimes cannot cope with demanding in/out constraints in asm() blocks
22:20:57amiconn...especially at higher optimisation levels
22:23:57*preglow enjoys this codec optimization talk
22:24:31LearBecause you don't need to do anything? :)
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22:25:34amiconnThe constraints in vector_math16_arm7.h are rather demanding, but then the implementation is also quite a bit more efficient than C
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22:29:16preglowLear: haha, no, i actually wish i could do something, i just like that there's a focus on it and work being done
22:30:04preglowi'm going on vacation for a week now, and need to get the bloody d2 stuff going anyway, so can't work on it
22:30:39*linuxstb recalls the 5% realtime that libmad first ran at on coldfire, and thinks preglow has done enough (apologies to others who may have helped with that...)
22:31:00preglowthe first bout of optimization isn't really much work...
22:31:09preglowiram, small asm
22:31:40linuxstbClocking the CPU to 124MHz...
22:32:04preglowheh
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22:33:07LearOuch, libmad and gcc 4.3.1 doesn't like each other. "Prefetch abort"...
22:33:55preglowbah
22:33:57preglowbloody gcc
22:34:10preglowLear: would be interesting if you found out why, though
22:34:27preglowlinuxstb: as a matter of fact, libmad on coldfire was a bit of work, but it was my first real embedded work ever, so...
22:35:11LearI'll see if I can pinpoint it at least.
22:35:13preglowshotofadds: pounded on the bloody sd driver again now, and can't get it to receive data no matter what i bloody do
22:35:26preglowit's really starting to piss me off
22:36:42LearPretty much the same speed for faad, unfortunately.
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22:38:14shotofaddspreglow: can't receive data? try writing instead :-P
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22:38:57shotofaddssounds like a bit of a nightmare, that driver.. I suppose you've done the OF disassembly to death by now?
22:41:32LearHm, the prefetch abort just says the address 40016FD8, which doesn't tell me all that much...
22:42:04bertriktha
22:42:21bertrikts somewhere in RAM IIRC, can't you look that up in the mapfile?
22:43:23LearThe closest in the map is 4000979c, which is stackend...
22:43:56LearDidn't check the codec map though...
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22:45:29LearStill after iend in the codec map.
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22:52:14preglowshotofadds: yeah..
22:52:23preglowbrb
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23:10:13shotofaddsI've just written a quick-n-dirty Windows program to write raw sectors with known values to the first 16Mb of the m200's flash, along with some Rockbox code to test reading those sectors with the Telechips NAND driver. The result?
23:10:32shotofaddsNot a single failure. Time for a longer test....
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23:13:09*bertrik is slowly making some sense of sansa c200 charging
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23:25:26Strife89Okay, I'm going WAY out on a limb here: Does anyone know which file (in the source) controls fading?
23:25:53preglowshotofadds: but will it work on d2? :>
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23:49:22shotofaddspreglow: yeah, they're using the same code (current SVN). From what I've seen so far there's barely any difference from the D2 scheme. Further testing will have to wait til tomorrow...
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23:50:22preglowshotofadds: would be extremely cool if it worked
23:50:43preglowi'll throw myself at sd again when i get back in a week
23:50:59preglowso i can start coding something more audio related soon :>
23:51:53shotofaddswell, that's one reason to get it working :)
23:54:59 Quit ender` (" It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn")
23:56:33shotofaddspreglow: believe it or not, it's now 6 months since the first D2 commit, so it's about time I got this damned NAND driver working.. I'm determined to get some improvements done in the next couple of weeks. Add in some SD magic and things could be looking up :-)
23:58:03 Quit Zarggg (Success)

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