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#rockbox log for 2008-07-28

00:00:14 Join Zarggg [0] (n=z@65-78-69-194.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com)
00:02:48 Quit Zarggg (Client Quit)
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00:04:52 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
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00:17:52 Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
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00:47:00 Quit ender` (" When I capture the hero, I will make sure I also get his dog, monkey, ferret, or whatever sickeningly cute little animal ca")
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00:56:38 Part pixelma
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01:00
01:03:53 Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]")
01:06:58 Nick Bensawsome is now known as OMGWTFBBQ (i=Bensawso@c-71-235-222-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
01:07:06 Nick OMGWTFBBQ is now known as Bensawsome (i=Bensawso@c-71-235-222-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
01:09:44 Quit Seed (Nick collision from services.)
01:09:52 Join Seed [0] (i=ben@bzq-84-108-237-178.cablep.bezeqint.net)
01:19:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:36:22 Join andrewbeveridge [0] (n=586fcb1a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-3bd4f6be19e10174)
01:43:04 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@c211-28-130-47.smelb2.vic.optusnet.com.au)
01:44:18andrewbeveridgehey, just wondering if saratoga, preglow, or linuxstb are around at the moment?
01:44:44andrewbeveridgedon't worry, i#m not here to nag :P
01:44:48saratogaandrewbeveridge: i'm here
01:44:51andrewbeveridgehey
01:45:15andrewbeveridgeis there any way the id3 tags could make a difference to the way the file is treated?
01:45:31saratogaif theres a bug in our id3 parser, sure
01:45:46andrewbeveridgebut surely that wouldn't be WMA-specific?
01:45:46saratogawe don't always handle tags correctly for all formats, though i think mp3 handling is pretty good
01:45:56saratogawell wma files can't have id3 tags
01:45:56andrewbeveridgeah right ok
01:46:25saratogathey use asf tags or whatever they're called
01:47:00andrewbeveridgeok i see... just, the reported bitrate by the faulty files is always in the *thousands* rather than the correct (~70 kbps)
01:48:33saratogareported by what?
01:49:09andrewbeveridgeany music client I have tried reading the files with
01:50:15saratogatheres no video stream ?
01:50:37andrewbeveridgehmmm?
01:51:07saratogaif an asf file reports that the bitrate is 1000s of kbps, i'd assume it was audio + video
01:53:12andrewbeveridgewell, based on the 2 MB filesize, correct seeking, and lack of any video output when renamed to .asf and launched in vlc....?
01:53:42saratogahow long is it?
01:54:36andrewbeveridgewell, the example file in the bug I submitted http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9205 is 3:56 long, and is 1.2 MB
01:55:21 Quit culture (Connection timed out)
01:55:38saratogaah didn't realize it was that file
01:56:04saratogai don't know how the bitrate is calculated, but its probably in one of the ASF headers
01:56:24saratogai don't think the decoder cares about the bitrate though
01:56:29andrewbeveridgewell, see when I am referring to the faulty *files* I am talking about thousands of tracks witht the same properties, same encoder, same bitrate
01:56:36andrewbeveridgeok
01:56:37andrewbeveridgesure
01:58:51andrewbeveridgenot sure if this helps, but if I re-encode the faulty files using the same encoder, but using CBR WMA rather than VBR WMA they work fine on rockbox
02:00
02:03:04andrewbeveridgethats interesting... the faulty (VBR) files report format as "wmav2" whereas the working ones are "wmadmo"
02:07:13 Quit andrewbeveridge ("CGI:IRC")
02:07:16 Join andrewbeveridge [0] (n=586fcb1a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b9ca6379b8c2f693)
02:12:07 Quit madspin (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
02:16:27andrewbeveridgejust wondering, is there any way I can change the category of a Bug in flyspray?
02:17:26 Join dabujo [0] (i=xx@p4FDB3505.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
02:17:47saratogaandrewbeveridge: you might need to be an admin, but i can change it for you want
02:18:26 Join webguest32 [0] (n=187be7e0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-aded23d5e4f34e58)
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02:18:41andrewbeveridgeok thanks, just I somehow put that bug in "Applications" rather than (I presume the correct) "Codecs"
02:18:45 Join n9xvt [0] (n=187be7e0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-15ea4e8b5e23c65b)
02:18:47rasherDoes anyone object to this: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/rdiff/Main/LangFiles?rev1=47;rev2=46 ?
02:20:23 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
02:21:31saratogaok i changed the status, but i wouldn't worry too much since linuxstb and I already know about it
02:22:42andrewbeveridgesure, but last time I was here I was told to submit a bug :)
02:22:50 Join perrikwp [0] (i=4aa794a0@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-8be49264b5b92898)
02:24:02n9xvtfixes to fonts,,wont dispay goup name queensryche (dots above the y)?also real time clock keeps going corrupt? sansa c240
02:26:19andrewbeveridgesaratoga: ok looks like I got mixed up - tracks coded with the windows audio converter program seem to be encoded using the DMO-based WMA encoder, hence are not playable with rockbox, whereas the ones which do not report "wmadmo" as their codec seem playable
02:26:28andrewbeveridgewhich makes sense
02:26:59 Quit sitwon (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:27:21saratogaandrewbeveridge: ok good to know
02:27:57saratogaif I find a difference with a file using "svn diff filename.c" why wouldn't i be able to revert it with "svn revert filename.c"?
02:29:23 Quit Bensawsome ("The awsome is gone :(")
02:30:40n9xvtis it just some players with wma isses?
02:31:14n9xvtthey are fine on my sansa
02:31:33saratogai don't think theres any specific players with wma issues
02:32:05andrewbeveridgen9xvt: does this file: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9205?getfile=16999 work on your player?
02:32:19andrewbeveridge( i would greatly appreciate you testing it :) )
02:32:24n9xvthang on,,i'll test
02:32:28andrewbeveridgethanks
02:33:20saratogaif you want to test files, the sim makes the most sense sicne you can at least see the error messages
02:33:42andrewbeveridgegood point i guess
02:37:15n9xvtplays but skips around,,,
02:37:45n9xvtalso reports it as 64 k bit
02:38:20andrewbeveridgeok so plays badly, like the recording. oh well at least that proves it isn't player/hardware specific. thanks :)
02:38:39andrewbeveridgeit technically is around 64kbps
02:38:42andrewbeveridgeit is VBR
02:39:05n9xvtok
02:39:17 Join Bensawsome [0] (i=Bensawso@c-71-235-222-135.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
02:39:25 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk)
02:41:09n9xvti am enjoying this software,,but will be glad to see these bugs my player seems to have go away,,,
02:41:25andrewbeveridgewhat sort of bugs?
02:41:36n9xvtfixes to fonts,,wont dispay goup name queensryche (dots above the y)?also real time clock keeps going corrupt? sansa c240
02:41:59rashern9xvt: I doubt that's a font problem
02:42:02andrewbeveridgehave you downloaded the fotns package?
02:42:09rasherUnless it's only the ÿ that doesn't display
02:42:59andrewbeveridgeside-question ; does rockbox support unicode characters in filenames and/or tags?
02:43:01n9xvtyes,,just the y,,and as far as i know i have everything this site has to offer,,
02:43:13safetydanandrewbeveridge: yes
02:43:17andrewbeveridgethanks
02:43:22rashern9xvt: Which font are you using?
02:44:49n9xvtlet me check,,i'll have to disc. and restart it,,
02:45:48n9xvti just loaded the latest build and fonts on it with the utility,,
02:48:04andrewbeveridgego to theme settings->browse fonts and select unifont, see if the problem persists?
02:48:27n9xvtthis may be an error on mi part? i havn't changed the font but am using the gsx theme?
02:48:44rasherThen you did change the font.
02:49:23rasherWhere did you get that theme?
02:49:49 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:50:14n9xvtrock box utility,,extras,,themes
02:50:43rasherWell, it includes its own font it seems. Not much we can do about that. Blame the theme author
02:51:09n9xvtok non-problem with the uni-font,,mi bad?
02:51:12saratogaoes anyone remember what " error: rockboxlogo.h: No such file or directory" means I've forggoten to do
02:52:00andrewbeveridgewell, if the unifont displays all correctly the problem is with whatever font the them you select uses. Each theme has it's own font. Simply change the font to one which you like, and works, after applying the theme.
02:54:02 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:54:47andrewbeveridgesaratoga: isn't rockboxlogo.h auto generated in each build?
02:54:53andrewbeveridge(i know nothing ;))
02:57:57n9xvtproportional font,, is good
02:58:19rashersaratoga: http://www.google.com/search?q=inurl:rockbox.org/irc/+rockboxlogo.h
03:00
03:00:52saratogarasher: the match is me asking that question
03:01:41rasherGreat
03:01:54andrewbeveridgesaratoga: methinks it could be some kind of a bug in the makefile?
03:02:26rashersaratoga: Maybe too high -j setting?
03:06:55 Join micr0c0sm [0] (n=jdehan@ool-45714941.dyn.optonline.net)
03:07:13micr0c0smare there any issues with navigating folders that start with "..." ?
03:10:52rashermicr0c0sm: There shouldn't be - what are you experiencing?
03:11:11micr0c0smI was just wondering, I haven't tried it yet (copying over the files now)
03:11:19micr0c0smbut when I ls in linux they dont show up
03:11:25micr0c0smunless I ls | grep \.\.\.
03:11:35micr0c0smmaybe once it is on the fat filesystem there wont be any problem
03:11:52rasherThat's because files beginning with a . are treated as hidden
03:12:18rasherRockbox does the same, but I don't know if it does the same for files starting with multiple dots
03:12:38micr0c0smand I thought .. means go up a directory too
03:12:46micr0c0smbut we will see in a few minutes if there is an issue or not
03:12:47Lloreanrasher: I'm pretty sure it does still
03:13:05 Join kugel [0] (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/kugel)
03:13:58rasherMaybe some cleverness is in order?
03:15:53andrewbeveridgeum, can anybody figure out what the difference is between these two files? http://88.111.203.26/music/index.php?dir=Rockbox%20Debugging
03:16:49andrewbeveridgeConverted using the same program, same format, same audio, same bitrate, almost same file size, yet one plays perfectly and one skips. (In VLC and Rockbox)
03:17:15 Quit dabujo ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )")
03:18:01saratogaandrewbeveridge: if I knew what was broken, I'd be able to fix this bug pretty easily . . .
03:19:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:19:56n9xvtHow can they be the same but have different sizes?
03:20:02andrewbeveridgeyeah, thats what i'm trying to figure out - I mean, when I have two files sooooo similar, and one fails, really all that we need to do is figure out what is different between them, then I'm sure you will be able to solve the problem
03:20:15andrewbeveridgeum, they obviously aren't exactly the same
03:20:19saratogayou're not going to be able to figure that out
03:20:34andrewbeveridgesaratoga: why not?
03:20:45saratogabecause you don't know how the codec works
03:20:54andrewbeveridgeyeah, good point.
03:21:09n9xvtif one could get"inside" and look at the codes,,
03:21:20saratogathe difference isn't something you can find other then by looking at the code and running the files through it a lot
03:22:49andrewbeveridgeits all kinda over my head. I want to learn but I think I would have to do a sound engineering course before I even had a clue about audio compression, codecs and such. I'm limited to programming database-driven websites lol
03:23:28saratogacomputer engineering
03:23:37saratogacodecs actually have nothing to do with sound
03:24:01Unhelpfulso, the audio out in sbagen.c is mostly stuff i figured out from one mail list message, and looking at mpegplayer. i seem to be missing something, though. does anybody know why it's silent unless i've adjusted the volume or played a track? patch is in https://looking-glass.us/~chshrcat/rockbox/
03:24:41andrewbeveridgesaratoga: really? surely the varied methods/qualities of compression must require some knowledge of the waveforms etc?
03:25:10 Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection)
03:25:16n9xvtis'nt the codec jut an "intepeter" between player and hardware?
03:26:56rasherandrewbeveridge: for designing a codec, yes. Writing the code for an already existing codec, not so much
03:27:02saratogaandrewbeveridge: thats basically what computer/electrical engineering is
03:27:39Unhelpfulandrewbeveridge: really, writing a decoder is a matter of following a specification. writing a good encoder for a format from scratch, or designing a new format, that's harder
03:27:43saratogan9xvt: thats one meaning yes, but we're refering to decoders here that convert compressed audio into pcm
03:28:54micr0c0smanyone here upgrade thier 5g 60gb hard drive?
03:31:24andrewbeveridgesaratoga: ah, ok - see, I was kinda getting confused with software engineering.
03:31:50andrewbeveridgeUnhelpful: yeah, I guess, except WMA doesn't have any spec available
03:33:45 Join Freddo_Frog [0] (n=chatzill@CPE-121-222-18-78.qld.bigpond.net.au)
03:34:10Freddo_FrogHey all
03:35:51Freddo_FrogI have a Question
03:35:56 Quit DerDome (Nick collision from services.)
03:35:57 Join DerDome1 [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-253-237.pools.arcor-ip.net)
03:36:09 Nick DerDome1 is now known as DerDome (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-253-237.pools.arcor-ip.net)
03:36:40saratogain case anyone was wondering, one way to create the rockboxlogo.h error is to not include a keymap file for your target
03:37:17Unhelpfulandrewbeveridge: i'm sure MS has one somewhere, but yeah, we have to figure it out. pretty much :/
03:37:40micr0c0smwow, i actually like the ipod mini themes better than the ones for my 5g :(
03:38:16Freddo_FrogI was looking to buy a MP3 Player, and i was wondering what the best choice is if i want to solely use rockbox
03:38:50saratogaFreddo_Frog: theres a buyers guide in the wiki
03:39:01Freddo_Frogi know but that does not include near complete ports
03:39:08Freddo_Frogall of those players are old
03:39:42Llorean"Near Complete" is meaningless.
03:39:49scorcheold != bad
03:39:51andrewbeveridgeFreddo_Frog: I, personally would say choose an iPod 5G
03:40:06Freddo_Frogandrew i have looked into those and they are all about 400
03:40:07LloreanUntil a port is complete, it can seem nearly done and have months and months and months to go, or it can seem like it's far from done, and a chance discovery allows it to be working in a few weeks
03:40:11scorcheandrewbeveridge: i wouldnt...
03:40:24Lloreanandrewbeveridge: Frankly, the 5G/5.5G are the worst performing Rockbox target.
03:40:28scorcheindeed
03:40:39Freddo_Frogi was going to go with the cowon X5L
03:40:53Unhelpfuli know people who seem pretty happy w/ gigabeat F
03:41:10saratogapretty much the only viable upcoming port at this point is the Gigabeat S
03:41:17Freddo_Frogi was thinking about that
03:41:20Freddo_Frogthe gigabeat S
03:41:22Freddo_Frogey
03:41:22LloreanThe Gigabeat S is the only one likely to work "well" with rockbox any time soon.
03:41:23andrewbeveridgeah ok, I guess it depends what you want to use it for primarily though
03:41:27saratogathe rest are too far away to be worth looking at, and even the S needs work
03:41:30Freddo_FrogMusic
03:41:39Unhelpfuli'm happy w/ my S, *but* it only charges in OF right now, and you need a paper clip or such to get back to rockbox from OF
03:41:43LloreanThe Cowon D5 has some potential, but some quirks that really stand in the way (managing its internal flash)
03:41:51LloreanIt'll most likely end up requiring a memory card for regular use.
03:41:54Freddo_FrogD2 you mean?
03:42:00andrewbeveridgeFreddo_Frog: what format?
03:42:00LloreanYeah, D2
03:42:04LloreanDamn numpad.
03:42:11Freddo_FrogLlorean: i currently own one of those and i haxedve it rockbo
03:42:15Freddo_Frogoops
03:42:45Freddo_Frogandrewbeveridge: ogg and mp3
03:44:38n9xvti'm pretty with my sansa,,
03:45:11n9xvtpretty happy that is,,
03:45:16 Quit Thundercloud_ (Remote closed the connection)
03:45:19Freddo_Frogi was looking for either HDD based or large Flash like 16 - 32 GB that is
03:46:26andrewbeveridgeLlorean: What is so bad about the iPod 5G then? (I know nothing)
03:46:46Lloreanandrewbeveridge: Slow processor + Large screen.
03:47:03LloreanBasically UI performance and drawing performance are generally poor because of the giant screen
03:47:15Lloreanand although pretty much all the iPods use the same processor, the others have smaller screens so show better UI performance
03:47:27micr0c0smAs an end-user, I have had no issues with rockbox in the past two years with my 60g 5g
03:47:28LloreanBecause the WPS must be updated, codec performance may be poorer too.
03:47:35Freddo_FrogWPS?
03:47:39LloreanWhile Playing Screen
03:47:43micr0c0smbut a smaller screen would be better for battery life, probably
03:47:44Freddo_Frogahhh i see
03:48:10Lloreanmicr0c0sm: Well, generally speaking, the batteries in smaller screen players are also smaller
03:48:11Freddo_Frogdoes it look like the Toshiba Gigabeat S will be cmopleted?
03:48:24micr0c0smI should run that battery test script
03:48:27LloreanFreddo_Frog: I'd give it >80% chance.
03:48:45Freddo_Frogi would not get it until october
03:48:46LloreanIt's quite usable as is, and the main thing missing is charging.
03:48:59andrewbeveridgeLlorean: ok what about the nano then? (ignoring massive difference in storage capacity due to flash memory)
03:49:11Lloreanandrewbeveridge: Nano is *much* better over all
03:49:16Unhelpfuljhmikes said he had that working, aside from some minor issues
03:49:20andrewbeveridgeah ok
03:49:27UnhelpfulS charging, that is
03:49:37LloreanUnhelpful: Yes, but who knows when he'll have time to work those out. :)
03:49:41Freddo_Frogi dont get how it could not charge. i thought charging was HDD not softwarew
03:49:49Freddo_Froghardware that is
03:50:12Unhelpfulthe S charger apparently needs to be told to charge. even from the AC adaptor. :/
03:50:22Freddo_Frogso you cant charge it when it is off?
03:50:55LloreanNope
03:51:02Freddo_Froghmm
03:51:09LloreanYou can't charge most players while off.
03:51:47Freddo_Frogwould it be able to be mounted under linux as removable storage?
03:52:17Unhelpfulyes
03:52:18saratogais there some way to remove a file from version control without deleting it?
03:52:41Freddo_Frogis there a chance that there will be a rockbox hardware player?
03:52:52Lloreansaratoga: Why?
03:52:59LloreanFreddo_Frog: Not realistically, no.
03:53:07Freddo_Frogit is a good project i think
03:53:24LloreanApparently not good enough, since too few people are contributing.
03:53:27scorcheFreddo_Frog: not unless someone with a clue comes forward and does it
03:53:30andrewbeveridgeLlorean: the nano charging is definitely hardware based - even when the flash drive was dd if=/dev/zeroed it charged fine from the USB cable and Mains charger
03:53:31saratogabecause SVN is terrible and i need to remove and readd some files to it so that it will recognize them
03:53:51Freddo_Frogwell what if a hardware vendor wanted to use it as the original firmware on there hardware?
03:54:18n9xvtthat wuld be awesome!
03:54:23Freddo_Frogi know
03:54:54saratogathe rockbox player project suffers from being a terrible idea
03:55:02Freddo_Frogsaratoga: what do you mean?
03:55:08scorcheandrewbeveridge: and disk mode still worked, etc...the ipods have certain functions in flash that do not depend on the state of the hard drive
03:55:25scorchesaratoga: it isnt too bad...just depends on what is done with it
03:55:47scorcheFreddo_Frog: while that might be "awesome" i dont see the point in saying "what-if..."
03:56:08Unhelpfuli wouldn't count on that what-if happening soon
03:56:21Lloreanandrewbeveridge: What is that supposed to prove?
03:56:25scorcheif it does, it does...if it doesnt, then i doesnt...
03:56:28andrewbeveridgescorche: ah, good point... so are you saying the charging was still presumably handled by the read only flash firmware?
03:56:56saratogahow do i blow away a corrupt SVN entry and readd it
03:57:03saratogaremove seems to fail
03:57:07Freddo_Frogthey could offer a rockbox version and a OF version
03:57:16andrewbeveridgeLlorean: that charging has nothing to do with firmware on the nano.. but clearly scorche just out-knowledged me :)
03:57:19scorcheandrewbeveridge: what is the point of this discussion?...the gigabeat S is a totally separate device
03:57:39scorcheFreddo_Frog: huh?
03:57:47Freddo_Froglike dell offers windows and linux
03:57:53Lloreanandrewbeveridge: Well, "hardware controlled" invariably means "software controlled" at some point, because eventually there's logic to protect from overcharging.
03:58:36saratogai don't think pure hardware lipoly chargers actually exist
03:59:08scorcheit is a bit complicated...
03:59:15andrewbeveridgescorche: um not sure - i went off topic, i guess.
03:59:40Freddo_Frogmaybe if the vendor got enough requests they could use rockbox as the original firmware
04:00
04:00:16scorcheFreddo_Frog: let me know how that turns out...i still dont see the point in discussing whatever you are trying to discuss...
04:00:24Freddo_Frogsorry
04:00:47andrewbeveridgeFreddo_Frog: not gonna happen. 1) Rockbox hasn't got nearly enough publicity. 2) Rockbox will never be stable.
04:01:33*scorche sighs
04:01:38saratoga2 is probably not a good thing to say in this channel
04:01:59Freddo_Frogi dont see how it is not stable
04:02:15scorcheandrewbeveridge: it certainly is stable enough for me...if you are seeing bugs that i am not, i hope they are at least in flyspray...
04:02:27n9xvtme either,,
04:02:38UnhelpfulFreddo_Frog: i believe saratoga might mean in terms of the code being a moving target
04:02:58scorcheeither way, what use would discussing this be?
04:02:58Freddo_Frogregular updates
04:03:04Freddo_Frogregular updates
04:03:16Unhelpfulmany commercial developers like their APIs frozen, or at least frosty
04:03:42scorcheif a manufacturer decides to use rockbox, then they do, but i dont see a point in discussing this hypothetical
04:03:58Freddo_Frogi am sure that if it was put to the vendors some1 would snatit upch
04:04:14andrewbeveridgeNo, I'm not seeing bugs - but for any supposed "vendor" to take software on, it would have to be widely adopted and tested. Rockbox is perfect in my opinion but I doubt it would ever be classed as "stable" with new bugs being found regularly.
04:04:19scorcheif you are so sure, then doo it..
04:04:27Freddo_Frogwhat email them?
04:04:37scorchei dont know and dont really care...
04:04:37andrewbeveridgego ahead
04:04:41Freddo_Frogi will
04:05:07andrewbeveridgescorche: bad mood? I'm sorry if I have offended in any way o.O
04:05:24Lloreanandrewbeveridge: There's just a bad habit of people not bothering to report bugs.
04:05:31LloreanThey always seem to assume that if they see them, we all see them.
04:07:12andrewbeveridgeLlorean: ah, ok. Just to clarify - by my less-than tactful statement "2)", I wasn't implying I had had any problems, I was meaning when bugs *are* being reported, it could never be classed as "Stable".
04:07:42Lloreanandrewbeveridge: No offense intended, but that's silly. I know commercial software that's much buggier than Rockbox. Several OF's included.
04:08:07LloreanI'd imagine if a vendor were interested in it, they'd just pick one of our numbered releases, where bugs are documented already, and adjust it to their needs.
04:08:13LloreanBut nobody seems interested in this, so it's irrelevant.
04:08:36scorchethere isnt much point in discussing this as a hypothetical
04:09:52andrewbeveridgeyeah. point taken. I shall shut up :)
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04:13:05n9xvtcan sd cards be hot swapped?
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04:13:23Unhelpful... and way back there i meant andrewbeveridge, not saratoga. nevermind.
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04:26:48n9xvti just wish i could fix the clock issues,,,
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04:31:24Lloreann9xvt: Is there a bug report for these clock issues?
04:32:44n9xvtnot that i have found,,but i have only heard of one other person who had the same issue,,but that person didnt use the clock,,,
04:33:04LloreanWell they'll never get fixed if they aren't documented..
04:34:18n9xvtbut i cant report it as i cant "re-create"it it just randomly occures
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04:37:00n9xvtand i'm not sure how to gain more info to give the programmers any kinda idea,,i'm pretty sure the simulator wouldnt get it right (wrong)
04:37:46saratogan9xvt: you should try to find a developer with your target and ask them to see if their clock also loses tiem
04:39:17n9xvtthat would be a great addition on the main page,,,oh well,,
04:47:32saratogaFS #9222 - Rockbox as an Application
04:48:02saratogastill a mess but i'd like feedback
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05:02:12n9xvti really didnt understand it,,but i'm not a programer,,
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05:03:22superkaybeei'm having a problem getting album art to work with just some of my albums
05:03:45superkaybee95% of them come up fine using the artist-album.bmp method but there's a few that just won't go
05:04:12superkaybeei can't seem to figure out what the issue is; i've checked the filenames & tags several times for typos
05:04:47superkaybeei can't explain why most of the album art works but just these 3 or 4 won't
05:04:52superkaybeeany suggestions?
05:09:55 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
05:12:44superkaybeeone bizarre example is an album that is stored on disk as album/disc1 and album/disc2
05:12:59superkaybeethere is a single .bmp album art file in the parent directory
05:13:27superkaybeeif i access a track from disc1, no album art but if i go with something on disc2, the art appears
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06:01:33n9xvtfs#9088,,imcompatible version on mi player,,causes an error on simulator?
06:02:09n9xvteven a windows error
06:03:18Llorean"incompatible version" means your simulator binary wasn't compiled at the same time as the plugin.
06:03:58LloreanSince his .rock is for a player, you can't use it with a simulator.
06:09:55n9xvti get the version error on my player,,is there a way to re- compile the rock for mi player,,<i update it daily,,or wenever i hook it up to charge>
06:11:06LloreanYou just compile a build with the patch.
06:12:34n9xvtyeah thats over my head,,
06:13:33n9xvti'd bet theres a few great patches i'd like to play with,,,
06:15:19n9xvt<- needs a book,,,rockbox for dummie
06:16:49advcomp2019n9xvt, compiling a build is not that hard like the ham radio tests you took
06:19:17n9xvtyeah but to me its vastly different,,kinda like a iron worker playin with pottery
06:19:52n9xvti'll search the wiki about compiling,,,maybe i can get it figured out,,,
06:20:26n9xvtat least i know why it isnt working right and can try to fix it!
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06:27:17n9xvtok,,i just looked at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/HowToCompile now i'm really lost,,,i would have know idea,,,
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06:31:22n9xvtit would be good if i could somehow tell the rock file its ok to run on that version,,or have a software to just to it for me,,,lol
06:31:46LloreanIt's not okay to run on that version.
06:31:51LloreanIf it were okay for it to run on it, it would run./
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06:40:52safetydann9xvt: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SimpleGuideToCompiling is probably a better page to start with
06:42:14xxbatman94xxn9xvt it took me a while to get compiling down
06:43:00xxbatman94xxwould anyone happen to know how to get ipodlinux off an ipod and the bootloader as well
06:43:12xxbatman94xxeven though this kinda doesnt relate to rockbox
06:43:51scorchexxbatman94xx: welcome to #rockbox...where the topic is: rockbox-related topics only
06:44:42xxbatman94xxobviously...but does anyone happen to know just off the top of their head?
06:45:14scorchexxbatman94xx: what i meant by that is that what you are asking is something that is off-topic and is against the rules of this channel
06:45:52xxbatman94xxsorry...ill figure it out myself thanks for the warning
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07:15:23n9xvtis there a limit on the number of patches i can add?
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07:26:48funmanhi
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07:51:55funmanlinuxstb: do you still have handy the source code you use to analyze sansav2 firmware block structure ?
07:52:24funmanI can't get the block sizes right after the 0x400 bytes 1st block
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08:15:39funmanah I get it better now .. /)
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09:34:57*linuxstb hopes other devs can comment on saratoga's rockbox-as-app patch - http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9222
09:40:00funmanlinuxstb: can you share the source code you use at http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.msg124880#msg124880 ?
09:40:31funmanI'm looking at the latest clip firmware and it has a weird structure
09:40:58linuxstbfunman: It's in the Rockbox SVN - utils/AMS/hacking/amsinfo.c (patches welcome...)
09:41:26funmanoh nice
09:42:33funmanI'll continue this evening after work
09:43:11linuxstbIf you improve it, please post a patch to the Rockbox patch tracker (and point me to it in case I miss it).
09:43:40funmansure
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10:22:00peturlinuxstb: the clip has OTG?
10:22:30linuxstbpetur: I don't know. I don't think so though.
10:22:51peturjust saw the "otg_functio" in your dump ;)
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10:23:42linuxstbAh, maybe it does then...
10:26:21funmanwhat's otg ?
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10:28:12peturusb-otg, usb host functionality
10:28:45peturmaybe it is part of the stack they used and then just disabled in software
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15:17:57LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Bonjour to you, good sir! :)
15:18:30MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: Howdy New Jersey.
15:18:48MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: Did that m200 show up on your door this morning?
15:19:06LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: No, not yet.
15:19:19LambdaCalculus37Neither did my Jukebox 5000.
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15:19:46MarcGuayI found a fun chip on the c100 that probably exists on that one as well (i2c eeprom?). And noticed that there's an extra 10MB hiding on the main partition that I can't seem to get at.
15:20:27LambdaCalculus37Not even with a dd command?
15:21:01*LambdaCalculus37 wonders if that extra 10MB might be something firmware-related
15:21:05MarcGuayAh, that was what I was going to do, disk image it. Not a linux dude but I think that's what dd is all about?
15:21:41MarcGuayI think it's probably the firmware because the NAND ones seem to have a hidden partition to hide it in while these ones don't...
15:21:58LambdaCalculus37You don't have access to a NAND c100, do you?
15:22:04MarcGuayNope.
15:22:11LambdaCalculus37Hmmm...
15:22:19*LambdaCalculus37 goes to eBay
15:22:24Unhelpfulhiding *on* the partition?
15:22:47MarcGuayAccording to linuxstb's LogikDAX page the nand versions have a hidden partition.
15:23:07linuxstbIt's not a hidden partition as such, just an area of the disk that isn't exposed via USB
15:23:08LambdaCalculus37Unhelpful: These Telechips device are weird little beasts.
15:23:27LambdaCalculus37linuxstb: Think a dd on the partition will also grab that area?
15:23:39linuxstb"isn't exposed via USB"...
15:23:51*LambdaCalculus37 scratches that idea, then
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15:29:19MarcGuaylinuxstb: So when you look at the DAX's contents in MSC mode, do you see much more space used than the total size of visible files?
15:30:46linuxstbThe DAX came with a load of MP3 files hidden within the filesystem, so yes, lots more space was used than was used by visible files. But apart from that, I haven't really looked at it.
15:31:02LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Is this the fun chip? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/pub/Main/SansaC100Port/mystery_chip.png
15:31:04UnhelpfulMarcGuay: that "11MB" that df found as used?
15:34:36MarcGuayUnhelpful: Yeah, still poking at that. Maybe it's exposed in MTP mode and is just a bunch of demo MP3s...
15:34:47MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: On the c100 page...?
15:34:51LambdaCalculus37Yes.
15:35:09MarcGuayYep. My camera's macro abilities impressed me. :)
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16:22:23*GodEater wonders how df can tell there's stuff being used if it's not exposed over USB
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16:37:37Unhelpfulif df sees it as used, it is in some way part of the filesystem :/
16:42:07LloreanIs the voice codec always loaded, or is it separate and only loaded when voice is enabled, or when voice needs to be played? Specifically, would it in theory be possible to support multiple voice formats without *too much* extra work?
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16:44:33linuxstbLlorean: The voice codec used to be loaded, but is now linked as part of the core.
16:45:38Lloreanlinuxstb: Some time ago there was talk about plugins possibly being under different licenses from the core, especially if they were compiled and distributed separately (plugins from a GPLv3 build of Rockbox being available for download, but binary compatible with a v2 or later build)
16:46:05MarcGuayUnhelpful: I might be barking up the wrong tree though. Perhaps it's possible, and even normal, for a 2GB disk to have a default amount of 10MB shown as "used" even though the exposed files don't reflect it?
16:46:08LloreanAnd I was thinking "well, if it IS true, it could also work for codecs" then "if it could work for codecs, it might work for the voice codec, I wonder how that's set up" specifically leading toward espeak.
16:46:29LloreanIt might be another angle to approach the espeak v3 problem from.
16:46:47pixelmaI remember some devs saying "no codec swapping for voice anymore" which seem to have been troublesome before
16:46:48LloreanIf it were possible to just normally include the speex, but allow a separate download to replace it with an actual TTS codec.
16:47:10LloreanAh well.
16:47:17pixelmawhen speex was introduced
16:47:28linuxstbpixelma: Yes, the code was greatly simplified (and made more reliable) by linking speex into the core
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16:50:50UnhelpfulMarcGuay: the fat, and directories, do take up space
16:51:43MarcGuayUnhelpful: That's what I'm wondering. Any idea if 10MB is a reasonble about for that?
16:56:41Unhelpfulno clue.
16:58:19Unhelpfulyou could make a new filesystem w/ the same parameters, and copy the existing directory structure to it
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17:25:22saratogais the rockbox build script in SVN ?
17:26:27Nico_Psaratoga: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/www/tools/
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17:54:35funmanre
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18:01:40funmanthe symbols for drm10_* functions don't exist in my Sansa CLIP firmware
18:01:49funmanthey got other names now
18:01:58funmanall the other library blocks are present
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18:07:14funmanhowever with the current method, I can not find what's after the firmware block
18:07:44funmanthe 4 bytes after the firmware block are 0xdeadbeef :o)
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18:27:37funmanI number at least 25 library blocks
18:29:46funman19*
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19:14:44peppoI can't seem to find any current instructions on how to convert a HFS+ iPod (30GB) to FAT32 on GNU/Linux.
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19:18:43funmanyou can't convert, backup the data and copy it again when the FAT32 partition has been created
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19:20:30LambdaCalculus37peppo: These will work just fine: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodConversionToFAT32
19:20:47LambdaCalculus37Just make sure to use Linux equivalents where appropriate.
19:24:28peppoah
19:24:33peppovideo 30gb is 5gen, right?
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19:25:12LambdaCalculus37Yes. It's also the 5.5G as well.
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19:26:04LambdaCalculus37You can tell by the serial number on the back; check this page out for more information: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1353#ipodfifth2
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19:26:38peppoheh
19:26:40LambdaCalculus37Although it doesn't make a difference.
19:26:44pepposorry
19:26:47peppomy cat made me press clear
19:26:48peppohm
19:27:05pepponow my ipod's constantly rebooting
19:27:24LambdaCalculus37Did you install using Rockbox Utility? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxUtility
19:27:57peppoI've not installed anything
19:28:02peppoI've just tried to convert to fat32
19:28:48pepponow it's in disk mode
19:28:48peppook
19:28:50peppolet's see
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19:34:36peppohm!
19:34:40pepporbutilqt says it's a macpod
19:34:46peppobut its filesystem is FAT32...
19:34:56peppo/dev/sdh3 on /media/iPod type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=hal,shortname=mixed,uid=1000,utf8,umask=077,flush)
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19:35:31peppoalthough there's no directories on it
19:35:41peppoI attempted http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodConversionToFAT32 in Linux
19:35:54funmanfdisk /dev/sdh ?
19:35:59pepposubstituting newfs_msos with mkfs.msdos
19:36:03peppofunman, shows empty space
19:36:09peppono partitions
19:36:23funmanwhy is sdh3 mounted then?
19:36:31peppoit simply is
19:37:36pepposigh
19:39:43domonokypeppo: and you changed both the second partition and the mbr ?
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20:01:41*domonoky gets strange segfaults if i change from .sap to another format. it also segfaults the same if i switch from another format to .sap.. :-/
20:03:15domonokythe segfault is in draw_album art ? strange...
20:03:37LambdaCalculus37That's strange indeed.
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20:07:34*domonoky thinks he knows why... id3v2buf is only 300 Bytes, so i overflow it with my metadata struct .. :-/
20:08:23 Quit peppo ("hejdå")
20:14:11*LambdaCalculus37 looks through docs/MAINTAINERS in SVN
20:15:36LambdaCalculus37Looks like docs/MAINTAINERS hasn't been updated in several months now. Are we still going to keep the file up to date, so we know who's maintaining what?
20:17:47bertrikI noticed several other documents in docs that look quite outdated too
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20:23:49LambdaCalculus37bertrik: Yes, I see that too. What the dilly-o? ;)
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20:30:29*LambdaCalculus37 notices that neither he nor MarcGuay have been credited in docs/CREDITS-MANUAL
20:31:10domonokyLambdaCalculus37: then hurry and add yourself :-)
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20:32:11LambdaCalculus37Also, the information in docs/KNOWN_ISSUES is very much outdated. Should the file be removed, or revised to let people know the info in it no longer applies?
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20:51:48saratogahas anyone had a chance to look at stripwax's profile patch?
20:52:03saratogawas goign to try it tonight and commit it if it works
20:52:27LambdaCalculus37saratoge: What's the patch number?
20:52:50saratogaFS #9170
20:53:06saratogathis honestly should have gone in sometime in 2006
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20:53:38*domonoky is now working on a asap metadata rework, i really overflow the id3v2 buffer so no wonder i get segfaults.. what should i do if i run out of buffer ? skip the file ? just skip the meta data ?
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20:55:15LambdaCalculus37saratoga: Honestly, I think it should go in.
20:55:26LambdaCalculus37But make sure it works first, of course. ;)
20:56:59domonokysaratoga: any news from your gsoc project ?
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21:04:19saratogadomonoky: i posted a FS task last night
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21:08:27domonokynice
21:09:46domonokyhm, i can not run test_codec on a .sap file which loops :-) it runs forever :-)
21:10:40LambdaCalculus37Strange... I managed to when I first tested the patch for it.
21:11:32domonokyalso elapsed handling for looping files is not nice, it goes into negative after the first iteration.. :-)
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21:18:41domonokybut i think i fixed metadata parsing and stereo handling now.. which i will commit now :-)
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21:20:54LambdaCalculus37domonoky: Okay, will test. :)
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21:21:18domonokygood :-) its now commited ..
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21:31:49BoD[]Hello, World!
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21:33:49BoD[]Hey, I haven't upgraded rockbox for a few months
21:34:05BoD[]untill yesterday I did, and my custom WPS is no longer working
21:34:18BoD[]what's a good way to troubleshoot?
21:34:39domonokythe WPS syntacs changed a little..
21:35:06domonokyi think the simulator can output nice messages where it goes wrong wile loading the WPS..
21:35:12BoD[]ahh!
21:35:17LambdaCalculus37You can either try a new theme from the WPS Gallery, or read this page for more information on what needs to be changed: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CustomWPS
21:35:18BoD[]downloading the sim right now
21:35:38rasherSpeaking of that, I should fix stuff so they get updated again
21:35:47domonoky./rockboxui −−debugwps will give you helpfull messages..
21:35:53BoD[]ah thanks!
21:40:25BoD[]seems to be the progressbar
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21:40:34BoD[]%P doesn't exist anymore? :)
21:41:13BigBambiIt has just changed
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21:41:30BoD[]I see i have to put the image directly in the %p
21:41:32BigBambiwww.rockbox.org/wiki/CustomWPS
21:41:40BoD[]yeah i saw
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21:47:10ChristopherWdoes anyone here use Rockpaint?
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21:51:22BoD[]what was %m again? I have it in my current WPS but it doesn't exist anymore! :)
21:51:50domonokymargins, that is now solved differently with viewports
21:52:12BoD[]ohhh ok
21:52:33ChristopherWthat reminds me, I need to re-upload my theme since it was broken due to a change in the wps parser
21:52:56BoD[]wow different fonts!
21:52:58ChristopherWthe only change that affected it was the progress bar tag, fortunately
21:53:32BoD[]suuuweet
21:54:34domonokyyou can only switch between userfont and systemfont.. real multifont isnt there yet.
21:54:59BoD[]oh ? :(
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21:55:35BoD[]oh right
21:55:39ChristopherWcan someone test my patch FS #9217? it makes lines drawn by the line tool look much better in Rockpaint
21:55:44BoD[]too bad
21:56:52domonokybut if we sometime get multifont, we will just extend this font number in the viewport :-)
21:57:40ChristopherWI'd especially like to know if it's OK #define the macro ABS() immediately before the draw_line() function
21:58:15ChristopherWmaybe I should've used abs() instead
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21:59:01ChristopherWoops... I'll go make a new patch using the standard abs() function that I just found out about right now
21:59:06domonokyif there is abs() in rockbox, you surely should use it instead of a macro
22:00
22:00:06ChristopherWright, and I just realized that now :-[
22:00:33domonokyand about the positioning of macros. i think its better to collect them at the top of the file, so you can easily find them..
22:01:31ChristopherWnormally I do that, but not in this case for some reason
22:02:01domonokyand i think it wouldnt hurt to add a few comments :-)
22:02:02ChristopherWI changed it to use abs(), and apparently that function does exist in Rockbox, so I'll upload a new patch
22:02:54ChristopherWwell, yeah I should add some comments
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22:03:22domonokyat least note the algorithm used, then its easier to understand later..
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22:17:08ChristopherWok, I added a comment and a second patch to my Flyspray entry FS #9217
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22:17:35ChristopherWthe patch contains some more comments and uses abs() instead of ABS()
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22:35:42fmlHello. I've posted an idea to the forum about how the smart backlight could work (http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17718.0). And it would be a clean solution IMHO. But there is already FS #8400. Can anybody tell me if it does exactly what I proposed?
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22:53:58*Bagder has the final count
22:54:06peturwooo
22:54:08bluebrotherwoot!
22:54:22Bagderannouncement mail in a minute
22:54:39*bluebrother drumrolls
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23:00:08Bagderthe mail is sent
23:01:22bertrikChristopherW, nice!
23:02:46*domonoky applauds to Bagder,LinusN,linuxsts,Llorean and amiconn !! *cheers* :-)
23:02:55Nico_Pa fine board indeed
23:04:44*bluebrother wonders who linuxsts is :)
23:04:56*rasher thinks this should go on -dev as well, at the least
23:05:00scorche|shlinux set top set
23:05:27Bagderrasher: it should indeed, part of my "next step" thoughts actually ;-)
23:05:40*petur counts 31 sysfont strings in recording.c
23:05:43bluebrothercongrats to the guys who made it
23:06:37*petur also congrats the expected suspects
23:08:40*preglow too
23:08:53*bluebrother grabs some spaces and throws them to domonoky :)
23:09:18*domonoky hides :-)
23:09:49rasherpetur: Are they going? The sysfont strings
23:09:50*preglow grabs a beer to cement his status as backup member
23:10:08peturrasher: as many as possible ;)
23:10:43rasherI still think introducing them in the first place was an awful idea
23:11:32peturI'll also try to get the naming a bit uniform as there are now some _RECORDING, _RECORD and _REC strings...
23:11:47rasherUgh
23:11:56rasherPlease rename in all langfiles then
23:12:18peturwell, I'm still not sure: rename or depricate
23:12:26rasherNothing like asking all translators to translate a string again, just because the ID changed
23:13:01peturif I depricate, then translators will at least check if they can now use a proper string
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23:13:47peturs/depricate/deprecate
23:13:54rasherBut that only goes for quite few languages. Most will just be hassled needlessly
23:14:10rasherMaybe you could just remove the strings from the few non-latin languages, to make them appear untranslated?
23:14:32rasherIf it's too much work, give me a list of ids and I'll do it
23:14:32peturugh
23:14:54peturso the existing translation is lost?
23:15:11rasherThat's the case if you deprecate as well
23:15:14peturI first have to check where each string is used
23:15:31rasherWhy? The sysfont strings are marked
23:15:57rasherMaybe I don't understand what you're doing
23:16:15peturif I deprecate, they can at least copy from there?
23:16:39rasherThat's almost as much hassle as just keeping an old language file around
23:16:50peturehm, I just want to make sure one of those sysfont strings isn't used elsewhere...
23:17:04rasherPlus, deprecated strings get removed automaticly in my translator :|
23:17:12rasherAh, like that
23:17:14peturmaybe I'm giving myself too much work
23:17:54rasherI should make a function on my "problems" page to check for non-latin characters in SYSFONT strings. I'm pretty sure quite a few languages have such strings
23:18:05rashers/quite //
23:18:57peturbingo... LANG_SYSFONT_GAIN is also used in eq_menu.c
23:19:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:20:27*preglow wonders how safetydan is doing with redesigning that menu
23:22:26peturI guess I'll leave the ones used elsewhere in the lang file and create a new one for the recording screen. When the eq screen is redone, they can use the new string and depricate the sysfont one
23:23:17rasherSounds like a job for my hypothetical langfile-poking tool.
23:23:26kugelLlorean: Hey. I have a question regarding the forum discussion we had today. What if the authors don't answer. Can I assume "no license" and if yes, can I keep the themes in the build?
23:23:38Lloreankugel: "no license" means all rights reserved.
23:23:46LloreanIf you don't have an explicit license, you can't distribute it.
23:24:00kugelLlorean: Ok, thanks. I expected that
23:24:04LloreanIt's unfortunate, but that's why we're going to require licenses on the new theme site.
23:24:07preglowrasher: make such a tool please :>
23:24:15LloreanTo prevent such confusion and difficulty in the future.
23:24:33kugelLlorean: Yea, I understand. I'll encourage people too to put a license on their work
23:24:39LloreanThanks
23:25:49bluebrotherbtw, how's the theme site going?
23:26:10rasherpreglow: I've pretty much lost my motivation on the xml stuff
23:26:49domonokywould be good to put this theme site stuff somewhere, where others also can poke on it :-
23:27:21bluebrothersvn already has a folder ... unfortunately no content.
23:27:42bluebrotherwhen we're going 3.0 we should have an official theme site. Even if it's read only.
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23:30:04preglowrasher: any reason?
23:31:06rasherpreglow: it's awfully boring work, recreating the old genlang using what's basically DOM and not much else
23:31:34preglowrasher: yeah, that i can imagine
23:32:02preglowrasher: but would creating the same thing using the current format be less work?
23:32:46rasherPossibly
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23:33:17preglowlang files are just too huge to handle by hand now
23:33:27peturgood news... only one sysfont string is used elsewhere...
23:33:47Ackershello
23:33:49preglowand they contain too much clutter to be easy to handle manually anyway
23:34:53Ackersi need help deciding what mp3 player to get
23:35:52rasherpreglow: I agree. It probably wouldn't be too much work, now that I think about it.
23:36:24bluebrotherAckers: check the BuyersGuide wiki page
23:36:43Ackersi did
23:37:04Ackersim an mp3 noob and it confused me
23:37:14preglowrasher: any ideas on what such a tool would do?
23:37:38rasherI think I had some ideas written in the xml patch
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23:38:55rasherSeems not
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23:41:48rasherSome obvious things: Change an ID in all languages, deprecate a string in all languages, change an English string in english.lang and change <source> accordingly in other languages (for minor changes that don't require changes in translations), change desc in all languages (for minor changes that don't require attention by translators)
23:42:24preglowah, yeah, global changes would be nice
23:42:33rasherSort a language in English.lang order (some people seem to prefer that)
23:42:42preglowoh yes
23:42:58preglowbut some kind of interface for doing the actual translation work itself would also be good, including displaying all the strings in a file
23:43:04preglowperhaps that's web app land?
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23:43:19preglowlike i said, i think the actual layout of lang files is way to cluttery for manual editing
23:43:53rasherI think a web app would be better - I don't think people would bother downloading a program to translate
23:44:10preglowyeah, i agree
23:44:48rasherI'm not sure I'm up to the task of writing a usable web app of that size
23:45:28preglownah, it'd be a fair deal of work
23:45:59preglowi used to enjoy writing stuff like that four years or so ago, but alas, no longer
23:46:09 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:47:15peturwow, lots of sysfont strings are actually duplicates of existing strings
23:47:19*preglow tries to sweat less
23:47:23preglowpetur: tons
23:47:34preglownoticed that when syncing last
23:51:28peturpreglow: 10
23:52:22peturand counting...
23:53:30rasherAh. I was about to suggest renaming norsk to norsk-bokmål, but then there's the filename problem
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23:57:17itchegbluebrother I tested the sudoku save patch in an Ipod 64 and it works perfectly, Thanks you!

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