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#rockbox log for 2008-08-04

00:00:05 Join CaptainKewl [0] (i=jds@207-237-173-165.c3-0.nyr-ubr4.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com)
00:00:23bertrikkugel, yes I noticed that and partially fixed that some time ago
00:00:56bertrikFor some menus it was easy, but others are also used elsewhere and it's not so easy to make them go back to the WPS instead of the context menu
00:01:14kugelbertrik: the context menu was remade though, which probably introduced new inconsistencies
00:01:50kugelI think every item should lead you back to the context menu, since there's a dedicated button to return to the wps
00:02:17 Join cbr|w [0] (n=cbr@212.98.160.130)
00:03:09bertrikIIRC I talked to amiconn about that and he said it should return to the WPS immediately, this also seems the intention of a macro in onplay.c
00:04:04rasherI'd expect that going back from something you opened through the context menu should return you to the context menu
00:04:29peturwhat's the difference between gui_statusbar_draw() and gui_syncstatusbar_draw() ?
00:04:49linuxstbpetur: I think the "sync" functions do it for all screens
00:05:13peturaha
00:05:24kugelrasher: I agree, especially since there's a dedicated button to go to the wps (as I already mentioned)
00:05:41*linuxstb agrees with rasher and kugel - I would expect context menus to behave like any other menus
00:05:52kugelpetur: and it respects the global_settings
00:06:13peturkugel: bingo
00:06:17 Quit CyBergRind|w (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:06:40kugelpetur: I've messed with it in my viewports for pitchscreen work ;)
00:06:44bertrikon c200 there is no such dedicated button to go to the WPS
00:06:59*petur is messing with it in the recscreen
00:07:00linuxstbbertrik: Don't you just exit the menu (press left?)
00:07:06BigBambibertrik: Check out pixelma's keymap changes
00:07:22bertriklinuxstb, no
00:07:54kugelbertrik: That's a showstopper :P
00:07:55pixelmabertrik: eh?
00:07:59bertrikbut I wouldn't mind if WPS context submenus returned to the menu they came from
00:08:09kugelbertrik: I say then get a combo
00:08:30linuxstbbertrik: You're saying you can't exit the menu?
00:08:31kugelselect+up or something
00:08:35*BigBambi still thinks the pixelma's c200 changes so far should go in - even is aspects aren't perfect, they are better than now :)
00:08:39pixelmaworks here (running my patches though) but I didn't touch that
00:08:44pixelma^bertrik
00:09:23pixelmakugel: a personal preference but I don't like combos
00:09:25kugellinuxstb: pressing left in the context menu should lead to the wps on the c200 too
00:09:39bertrikit does in the wps context menu, but nowhere else
00:09:50bertrikergo, no dedicated WPS button
00:09:54kugelpixelma: Same, but I've just shortly looked at the keymap file, and it looked like every button is used
00:11:11pixelmayes, but being able to adjust volume in the list is an extra (that only the gigabeats have IIRC) and could be ditched in favour of a dedicated resume
00:11:24pixelmaother than the c200
00:14:25 Join Zambezi [0] (i=stolgfor@itslyna.se)
00:15:50kugelpixelma: agree
00:17:01*kugel keeps misstyping pitchscreen as quickscreen. Can someone fix it please (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9231) ...
00:17:22bluebrotheras long as it doesn't get bitchscreen ...
00:17:28kugelheh
00:17:41kugelor quickyscreen :P
00:18:06peturpixelma: patch 15 is up (*sigh*)
00:18:24 Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@dyndsl-085-016-163-120.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
00:18:35kugelpetur: 15th version already?
00:18:54peturdebugging, man ;)
00:19:01kugelpetur: I guess pitchscreen was much easier to viewportify than recscreen
00:19:17 Quit sitwon (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:19:59peturkugel: recscreen was a mess, and the content got split now... not completely as it should but a better base for redesigning the gui
00:23:22*kugel still searches someone with flyspray powers to correct his silly typo
00:24:09bertrikkugel, I'll fix it
00:24:25kugelbertrik: Great. Thank you
00:24:58 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection)
00:25:11 Join thegeek_ [0] (n=nnscript@s080a.studby.ntnu.no)
00:27:14 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:30:37 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]")
00:30:50 Quit bertrik ("Leaving")
00:30:52pixelmapetur: going to try in a bit
00:31:03peturnice, thanks!
00:31:38 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:33:52 Quit sin613 ("Leaving.")
00:34:48Bensawsome/join #TVShows
00:34:56 Quit MethoS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:34:58Bensawsomesry
00:40:05 Quit mf0102_ ("Ex-Chat")
00:40:41 Quit thegeek (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:44:43 Join einhirn [0] (n=Miranda@p5B030F77.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:49:54*petur wonders how we managed to get a delta table that is mostly green
00:53:49 Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@ppp-70-242-15-106.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net)
00:55:20pixelmapetur: looks good in a quick test, I can enter and quit the recording menu without a problem now and it looks like the "disk full" issue has been a stupid on my side. The only thing that's left is that the trigger bar still isn't shown
00:55:49peturque? still not shown?
00:55:54*petur checks again
00:56:06pixelmaand I still don't like that double height peakmeter... ;)
00:56:29peturI'll show you where to change the code ;)
00:59:07peturpixelma: the triggerbar shows up fine in the sim. Are you sure. It only shows up during recording - is that correct?
01:00
01:01:14pixelmaeh, I expected it to always show when triggered recording is enabled, why should it have a "ready" state then? And I believe that it's been this way before the trigger screen viewportification
01:01:29peturah
01:01:38peturI was comparing with svn
01:01:48peturso it should always show...
01:03:08pixelmaI thought it did and it makes much more sense to me. Without it I would have no incidaction that triggered recording is enabled in SVN and with the patch I get a small hint since then the peak meters are at smaller
01:03:29 Quit ender` (" It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take Hofstadter's Law into account. -- Hofstadter's Law")
01:03:30pixelmas/in SVN/like it is currently in SVN
01:04:03peturpixelma: Right now pressing record 'arms' the trigger and thus shows the bar (that is how I understand it)
01:04:21 Join avis [0] (n=ident@pdpc/supporter/student/avis)
01:04:27peturand from first looks, this must have been like this before going to viewports
01:05:45pixelmaoy, should have read that TriggerManual better. I tried that now, trigger bar appears but vanishes again after a few seconds
01:06:15petureh?
01:06:29pixelmaprobably when the signal is below the "off" threshold? Didn't set anything yet
01:08:28pixelma"Trigger" was set to "Once"
01:10:21peturhmmm from the description in the manual, I would expect the triggerbar to be always visible...
01:10:51pixelmaok, stays there when set to "Repeat" and I can see the threshold markers in the peakmeter now and the signal could easily fell below (I'm currently using mic input only)
01:10:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:11:10kugelwhy do i get "undefined reference to gui_syncpitchscreen_run" in the object files?
01:11:31kugelit compiled fine all the time, until i did "make clean"
01:12:52 Quit CaptainKewl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:13:14peturpixelma: so it works as expected now?
01:15:20pixelmapetur: yes, just tested with "Once" and I do get a file (so trigger hits but due to the settings it also finished so quickly that I didn't understand that it before)
01:15:24kugelI could need some help here: http://pastebin.ca/1092032
01:15:43pixelmapetur: sorry for the confusion
01:16:11peturnice... but now *I* am not sure anymore ;)
01:16:38 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:16:40kugelit worked the whole day, but now I'm getting this errors
01:16:57 Quit petur (Remote closed the connection)
01:17:09*pixelma records electrical noise coming from the EL backlight
01:17:35 Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
01:18:21peturnice... insight (gdb) crashed and took my session with it :/
01:18:55 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host31-168-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
01:24:14 Quit BlakeJohnson861 ("Leaving.")
01:25:01 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
01:27:09 Join BlakeJohnson86 [0] (n=bjohnson@c-24-118-135-22.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
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01:28:25 Quit BlakeJohnson86 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:28:26 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
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01:30:10 Quit ChristopherW (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:33:22kugelDo I need to do something when I add a .h file in order to get it compiling properly?
01:33:35kugelI really don't get why it isn't working anymore :S
01:33:40linuxstbDid anyone ever manage to contact the creator of the "Rockbox cube" logo ? It seems a few themes are using it...
01:33:55linuxstbkugel: Have you tried a "make clean" ?
01:34:03 Join ComradeHaz [0] (i=Haz@85.234.136.4)
01:34:27kugellinuxstb: Yea. No change
01:34:40kugellinuxstb: getting a whole fresh source didn't help either
01:36:01kugellinuxstb: I just added a pitchscreen.h, and I'm getting this errors (http://pastebin.ca/1092032)
01:36:15kugelit worked the past few days, which is weird
01:37:56linuxstbkugel: Can you post a patch somewhere?
01:38:14kugellinuxstb: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9231
01:38:45kugelv2 worked well. I used the same source for v3, so v3 was working too. but now it stopped working
01:42:51kugellinuxstb: I think I've found it. the #ifdef HAVE_PITCHSCREEN in pitchscreen.c doesn't seem to do well
01:44:20 Quit culture (Connection timed out)
01:44:27linuxstbNo, not before you #include config.h...
01:44:49linuxstbBut you don't need it - it's in SOURCES
01:45:23kugellinuxstb: Ah, that makes sense. I didn't think of that
01:53:47 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
02:00
02:07:17 Join mrkiko [0] (n=mrkiko@host105-28-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
02:15:20 Part pixelma
02:15:40 Quit mcuelenaere ()
02:20:45 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008072820]")
02:21:20 Join kugel [0] (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/kugel)
02:23:47 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-20f735f75b80bf82)
02:24:14 Join saratoga2 [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-3c1a42da5a3fc7ee)
02:24:14 Quit saratoga (Client Quit)
02:24:20saratoga2is there someone around who knows a lot about GPL versions?
02:26:39dandersondepends what is meant by a lot
02:26:44*danderson mumbles something about meta-questions
02:29:47 Quit nicktastic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:32:30 Quit avis (Remote closed the connection)
02:35:30scorchesaratoga2: you should know better ;)
02:35:34 Quit perrikwp ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
02:38:17saratoga2the Tremolo developer is hesistant about changing the "GPLv2" terms to "GPLV2 or later", but from his description of his concerns it seems like he'd probably be ok with it if someone explained why we need the "or later"
02:38:53saratoga2i was going to say "it bans Tivoization, gets us compatability with any v3 code, and not a whole lot else of interest" but i'm not sure if thats entirely accurate
02:40:30dandersontremolo, isn't that the fixed point ogg vorbis codec?
02:40:45scorchei wouldnt say the first part, but it just gives up more flexibility for the future and broadens the pool of projects that we can pull from
02:41:43saratoga2danderson: Its an optimization of Tremor for ARM CPUs
02:41:47 Quit nplus (Remote closed the connection)
02:41:54scorchedanderson: http://wss.co.uk/pinknoise/tremolo/index.html
02:42:34dandersonaha.
02:42:58dandersonbanning tivoization might be a good argument for going to gplv3 exclusively
02:43:19scorcheright...but not really an argument for v2 or later
02:43:27dandersonand it applies given the project
02:43:45dandersonbut if it is gplv2, the only real argument is that more projects get to use the code afaik
02:44:02scorchewell, we have people on both sides and dont really plan on switching any time soon...what we are after is to have everything be GPLv2 or later
02:44:51saratoga2from what I gather, the V3 is no less permissive then the V2, so there seems to be little harm in using both
02:44:59saratoga2at worst people will just choose v2
02:45:08dandersonI'm looking at a comparison of the two right now
02:45:11scorchesaratoga2: but it still isnt "GPLv2 or later"
02:45:55scorchesaratoga2: it mainly just gives us more options and better flexibility instead of restricting us in case we wish to move on in the future or accept projects with different licensing
02:46:30scorcheoffering both a GPLv2 and a GPLv3 version is not the same as offering a GPLv2 or later version
02:46:31 Join avis [0] (n=ident@pdpc/supporter/student/avis)
02:46:34dandersonv3's main additions are anti-tivoization, and a patent clause that revokes rights if you sue the author(s) for patent infringement
02:46:42dandersonthe rest appears to be mostly clarifications
02:47:42 Quit Seed (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:47:48dandersonand small additions like: not respecting the GPLv2 leads to revocation of rights granted by the license; GPLv3 is the same, but if the violator corrects the situation within 30/60 days restores your rights
02:47:57scorchedan_a: well, yes, but this isnt really a moving-to-v3 discussion...this is trying to get the Tremolo devloper to put out a "GPLv2 or later" version instead of just GPLv2 and GPLv3 versions
02:48:06scorchewhoops
02:48:13scorchedanderson: ^^
02:48:38dandersonright. I'm describing how the v3 differs from v2 because the tremolo author probably cares
02:49:38num1http://rockbox.pastebin.com/d6d4a6b43 Is this allowed? To use target indicators in the translation but not in the source?
02:49:43saratoga2danderson: do you have a link to the differences?
02:50:38dandersonthe one I just read is http://linuxdevices.com/files/misc/GPLv2_vs_GPLv3.pdf
02:50:52dandersonthe first part is not very relevant, but the annex has a section by section comparison of the two
02:51:32dandersonalso, http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20060118155841115
02:51:38dandersona highlighted diff of textual changes
02:51:59dandersonmakes it easy to see that changes are mostly just wording, with the exception of patent and tivoization clauses
02:52:14mrkikoOk, I built the build environment correctly and I'm able to compile rockbox within a x86-64 machine.
02:53:03dandersonbut, it boils down to: for tremolo, which is quite explicitely targetted at embedded systems, it is desirable to offer the option of gplv3
02:53:18dandersonsince users of tremolo for embedded targets may feel very strongly about tivoization
02:53:41dandersonso, even if you don't particularly care, it would be a good thing for your users to specify "v2 or later"
02:53:50dandersonsince it gives them the option of caring
02:54:52danderson(am I making any sense?)
02:58:53 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
03:00
03:02:03 Quit tvelocity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:03:39 Quit saratoga2 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:04:47kugelJdGordon: Morning :)
03:05:34JdGordonmorning
03:06:14 Quit daurn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:07:06kugelscorche: Why do you need "GPLv2 or later" on tremolo?
03:07:32kugelJdGordon: I think my pitchscreen vp patch is committable
03:09:28scorchekugel: to leave us open for whatever we might decide to do int he future
03:10:12JdGordonkugel: I can already see a few things which could be cleaned up first...
03:10:27JdGordonstruct viewport pitch_icons = *parent; to start with
03:10:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:11:56JdGordongui_syncpitchscreen_run() is a wierd name...
03:12:24JdGordonalso i has a parent viewport inside the funciotn.. the point of paretns is to pass them in... what your doing does nothing with them
03:13:01JdGordonand the .h still contains all the #defines which are not used anywhere except the .c so they shouldnt be external
03:14:29kugelhjm
03:14:31kugelhm
03:16:31kugelJdGordon: #defines are global anyway
03:16:37kugelaren't they?
03:16:50JdGordonno... and there is no need to put them there unless they are used elsewhere
03:17:59JdGordonbut yes.. the patch is looking better
03:19:07kugelJdGordon: Why is gui_syncpitchscreen_run a weird name? To me, gui_syncquickscreen_run doesn't sound much different :P
03:19:15JdGordonok, this is wierd.... h300 sim works with the PF patch.. e200 doesnt... both are using the same /music folder
03:19:57JdGordonneither is nice...
03:20:08JdGordonwhats wrong with pitchscreen_run() and quickscreen_run()
03:20:51kugelJdGordon: gui_syncpitchscreen_run was your idea, remember? Also, the sync part implies (at least for me) that it's automatically done for all screens
03:21:07kugelgui_syncquickscreen_run
03:21:17 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:21:37JdGordoni dont rmember.. and thats valid except all screens should be automatically done on both displays now... gui_sync is a relic from when there was no 2nd screen
03:21:52JdGordonor more specifically... during the change to mutliscreen api
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03:26:38kugelJdGordon: So, the pf patch doesn't work on e200 sim this time? Weird. The only difference is the PEFERRED_ALBUM_WIDTH/_HEIGHT (110 for e200)
03:26:59kugeldisabling resizing in the pf settings should eliminate this difference
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03:51:33kugelJdGordon: Ok, I implemented a parent parameter in for the pitchscreen, I'm not too sure though if it's correct (because of the MENUITEM_FUNCTION in onplay.c)
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03:52:36JdGordonyou need to tell that macro to use USE_PARAM (or whatever that flag is) and set it to NULL
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03:59:02kugelJdGordon: Ahh ok. So, gui_syncpitchscreen_run can take a parent, or NULL
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04:00
04:02:05kugelJdGordon: I didn't implement this before, since quickscreen_run doesn't take a viewport
04:02:16 Join avis [0] (n=ident@pdpc/supporter/student/avis)
04:02:25kugeland since you've converted it to viewports, I assumed it's correct this way
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04:03:45 Join Seed [0] (i=ben@bzq-84-108-237-178.cablep.bezeqint.net)
04:04:14JdGordonwell... screens that work in a viewport should acept a parent... thats my opininon anyway, other may disagree
04:04:44kugelAnd why haven't you done this for quickscreen?
04:05:14JdGordonbecause im lazy probably
04:05:20kugellol
04:05:43JdGordonany screens that dont accpet a viewport will always use the fullscreen... so your custom fullscreen patch wont work with them
04:06:22JdGordonbreaky time
04:06:25kugelJdGordon: Well, I got quickscreen to work with it, by putting my list_info viewport directly in (instead of the vp created there)
04:08:18 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
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04:18:32kugelJdGordon: What's wrong with "struct viewport pitch_icons = *parent;"
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04:22:53JdGordonkugel: its unneeded.... pitch_icons can just be replaced with parent
04:22:57 Quit Seed (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:23:14kugelJdGordon: I don't intend to draw in the parent
04:23:34JdGordonyour not changing it.. so there is no need to copy it
04:23:49kugelI draw into it
04:24:13kugeldisplay->set_viewport(&pitch_icons);
04:24:33JdGordonjust replace &pitch_icons with parent and it does the exact same thing
04:25:14kugelThat's not my idea of the parent. The parent should just be like a container (in this case: dictate the margins to be used)
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04:27:12JdGordonyour reading too much into the name parent...
04:28:15kugelJdGordon: Note: If I draw into that parent, the icons will remain after quitting the quickscreen, it's the same vp then gets passed to gui_syncpitchscreen_run
04:29:30kugelthe parent isn't meant to be drawn anything in
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04:31:22JdGordonthats wrong.... a viewport is just a rectangle... no mater what its called... if its not cleared then yes it will stay...
04:31:42kugelsure if it's cleared...
04:31:45JdGordonand side not... if its 2 people in a conversatoin.. you really dont need to keep saying my name..
04:32:00JdGordoncopying the viewport doesnt magically clear it or stop that
04:33:27kugelI'd like to avoid clearing viewports, since e.g. that was the reason the statusbar flickered. So, unless I really need to, I avoid drawing into the parent
04:34:14JdGordonarg.. copying the viewport doesnt change anything...
04:34:25JdGordondrawing into the "parent" doesnt cause anything...
04:35:06 Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
04:37:00kugelwell, if you want it like that
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04:38:59JdGordonfood and then uni... ttyl
04:41:01kugelJdGordon: I'll quickly upload a new version which address your issues
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04:45:21kugelGood night
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08:49:57funmanI had an answer from SanDisk about the recovery mode on the Sansa Clip !
08:49:57funmanThey want to know my version of Windows Media Player ;')
08:50:21LinusN:-)
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10:14:56vitjalinuxstb, hi
10:15:14vitjalinuxstb, can you give me link to tcc77x sdk?
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11:01:56mrkikoHi all again!
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12:27:04Learlinuxstb: Seen the bug FS #9189?
12:29:18linuxstbLear: Just read it now....
12:30:08linuxstbWhat version is the file that doesn't play?
12:30:24LearOk, regarding the first file, the metadata code checks for at least version 3.97, but shouldn't that check be for at least 3.95?
12:30:34LearAnd the file version is 3.96.
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12:31:22linuxstbIIRC, files earlier than 3.97 shouldn't work... Or if they do, it's luck.
12:33:36preglowrasher: i know about the "" instead of none thing with the norwegian translation, and that kind of thing is the reason i want a proper translation tool
12:34:23preglowrasher: i replaced a bunch in my latest sync, but fixing all of them would require me to manually go over the entire file again, and i have better things to do
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12:35:38LearThis one seem to work (it's short though). For header parsing at least, tthe official source suggests that the versions to check are 3.95 and 3.98. But that's header only...
12:36:34linuxstbThere are various checks throughout the code - the header format probably changed in 3.98, but the codec format itself changed with almost every release (helpfully...)
12:37:27linuxstbWhich is one of the reasons it manages higher compression than other codecs - it didn't worry about backwards compatibility.
12:38:20LearAnd for the track skip problem, there's a segfault in rangecoding.h:read_byte, I think towards the end of a track (haven't checked exactly where yet). That's for a 3.99 file.
12:39:00linuxstbIs it a 24-bit file?
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12:39:46LearNope. Plain 16 bit 44 kHz.
12:39:56linuxstbAnd presumably the official decoder works?
12:40:42linuxstbCould you give me these files?
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12:41:45LearThe APE plugin for Foobar seem to handle it fine. It's a ~40 MB zip. Ok to DCC?
12:42:21linuxstbI don't think DCC will work here, but you can try
12:42:47LearIt contains one 3.96 file, and two files for the track skip problem mentioned on FS.
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13:51:34kugelJdGordon: is the pf patch working on your target(s)?
13:51:58JdGordonhavnt tried on target yet
13:52:18kugelok
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14:27:00kugelSoap: I think Miss LED natural can stay in the WpsSansaE200 gallery. The original theme was posted under cc-by-sa on r-t.org, and the license requires any derivative work to use the same or a similar compatible license (and since it's not specified in the mod, I'd assume cc-by-sa)
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14:39:50Bellskiguys, an1 know, it's possible stuck flac with Samsung T10 or not ?
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14:43:29linuxstbBellski: I'm not sure what you're asking, but this is a channel about Rockbox, and Rockbox doesn't work on the Samsung T10.
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14:46:02Bellskisad :/
14:46:03Bellskibtw
14:46:38LambdaCalculus37It's not sad. It's just how it is right now. If you want to see Rockbox on the Samsung T10, you should start working on the port.
14:47:08Bellskione problem i am not programmer :/
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14:47:24LambdaCalculus37What about getting hardware information?
14:47:46LambdaCalculus37That just requires you to open the device, scan the board, and google for information about the chips inside.
14:48:19vitjaIs anyone familar with usb-slave mode?
14:48:41vitjaWhat should I do to test my usb driver?
14:48:59Bellskiu mean if my T10 have ARM chip it's possible ?
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14:49:15Bellskivitja what wrong with ur usb ?
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14:49:57vitjaBellski, I'm trying to write usb-device driver for tcc77x
14:50:12vitjaand I don't know how to add it to rockbox
14:50:31vitjain target configuration I enable USB stack
14:50:39LambdaCalculus37vitja: If it's a TCC77X device, there are a few others working on devices with similar chipsets.
14:51:09LambdaCalculus37Bellski: Having ARM or not has nothing to do with it. You have to identify what's in the device.
14:51:18vitjaLambdaCalculus37, what do you want to say?
14:51:53LambdaCalculus37vitja: I'm not exactly the guy to ask. I just help test the code.
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14:52:21vitjaLambdaCalculus37, ok. I'm interested in rockbox usb infrastructure
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14:53:37Bellskibtw i know AAC better than mp3 but how better ?
14:54:03mcuelenaerevitja: perhaps I could help you, I have added an USB driver in the past to Rockbox
14:54:18vitjamcuelenaere, Ok..
14:54:30mcuelenaerewhat's the problem exactly?
14:54:38BigBambiBellski: Please, stay on topic
14:55:00vitjamcuelenaere, I've written small code, that simply replies some control messages from the host
14:55:09vitjamcuelenaere, now I want let rockbox to handle them
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14:56:14mcuelenaerevitja: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/export/usb_drv.h?revision=17847 these are the functions you'd need to implement
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14:57:10mcuelenaerehttp://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/target/arm/usb-drv-arc.c?view=markup -> this is the working USB driver
14:57:16mcuelenaere(on PP targets)
14:57:27vitjamcuelenaere, okay when I'll write them, how can I test it, from bootloader?
14:57:31mcuelenaerethis is the one I made (which doesn't work yet): http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/drivers/isp1583.c?view=markup
14:57:42mcuelenaereyou'll need to edit the config-...h
14:57:51vitjamcuelenaere, in other words what should functions should I call?
14:58:32mcuelenaeresee http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/export/config-creativezvm.h?view=markup below for an example (or look for other files)
14:59:31mcuelenaerevitja: I had this in a test bootloader: http://pastebin.com/d415dd9d
14:59:37mcuelenaerenot sure if it's up to date though
14:59:59mcuelenaereyou'll have to either wait till gevaerts get back or search yourself how the usb core communicates with the usb driver
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15:01:38mcuelenaerevitja: the usb driver (HW related) communicates with firmware/usbstack/usb_core.c (generic)
15:02:00mcuelenaerethe best is to look how usb-drv-arc.c does it
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15:02:41mcuelenaerebut I have to go now..
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16:41:37LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: My m230 is running v3.2.8A firmware.
16:42:01MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: Have you opened it up yet?
16:42:10LambdaCalculus37No, not yet.
16:42:32LambdaCalculus37But according to shotofadds, it's using a Tri-Flash encoder.
16:42:48LambdaCalculus37And as for Telechips datasheets, I may have the TCC770 sheet somewhere.
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16:43:21MarcGuayOkay. Who knows what the firmware versions mean on the m200s. v1 could mean it's powered by squirrels.
16:43:34LambdaCalculus37:D
16:44:07MarcGuayI got the bootloader to display the SD_STATUS... Which is NULL/default basically. That's as far as I've gotten..
16:44:18LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Any firmware that starts with 1.X.X or 2.X.X appear to be for NAND-based m200s. 3.X.X appears to be HARP, and I figure 4.X.X is AMD.
16:44:25LambdaCalculus37s/AMD/AMS
16:44:28MarcGuayThe SD_MCC stuff is around 0x90000100 I believe...
16:45:40peturMarcGuay: if you have time, please have a look at the updated patch of 9208 and see if the statusbar acts the way you want... (no hurry)
16:46:21MarcGuaypetur: Okay, I saw the update but got myself wrapped up in something else. I'll see if I have a minute later on...
16:46:46LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Have you got a file/folder listing of the c100's storage anywhere?
16:47:09MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: Could you reword that?
16:47:52LambdaCalculus37Do you have a directory listing of the c100? Basically everything that's on the c100, like a SYSTEM folder, or something?
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18:41:51rasherpreglow: rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/problems.php?lang=norsk">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/problems.php?lang=norsk points out exactly the IDs with "" rather than none (and the other way around)
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18:42:37rasheramiconn: have you seen the sapi_voice.vbs
18:42:37rashersapi_voice.vbs
18:42:38rashereh
18:42:48rasheramiconn: have you seen the sapi_voice.vbs changes in FS #9148?
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18:46:13*amiconn doesn't check the tracker regularly
18:46:15amiconnIt'
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18:47:24amiconnThe patch is backwards...
18:47:45rasherYeah, I thought it might be
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18:48:51rasherI'm not entirely sure what he wants to achieve, and my knowledge of vbs and the appropriate tools is non-existing
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18:52:58amiconnI don't understand the changes in UTF8decode() at all.
18:54:00amiconnUsing Split() with comma as a delimiter in this place doesn't do what it should. The function needs to operate on single (pseudo-)byte characters, not comma separated substrings
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18:56:47amiconnThe other change should be okay, although this is the first time I hear of a sapi5 voice with no vendor attribute
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18:57:31amiconnThe other freeware L&H voices which I checked (German, English, French) have it
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18:57:39rasherWeird
18:58:40MarcGuayRegarding the new theme guidelines, shouldn't themes with the ND (No Derivative) clause be in the graveyards?
18:58:59BigBambiMarcGuay: The Gallery is for now just 'permissive'
18:59:07MarcGuayIt allows copying, but not altering ("You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work.").
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18:59:21BigBambiI guess that could be argued for ND, but it does let people fix them
18:59:26BigBambior, my bad
18:59:32BigBambis/or/ah/
18:59:34MarcGuayBigBambi: So if I've found one with that clause, it should be moved...?
18:59:41amiconnAnd of course it shouldn't return 'Microsoft' if the vendor is not known. It should return something that properly indicates the fact, e.g. 'unknown'
18:59:42BigBambiI was getting confused :)
18:59:56BigBambiMarcGuay: I think so, yes
18:59:58MarcGuayBigBambi: That's what I call my "happy place". No worries/.
19:00
19:00:18pixelmaMarcGuay: do I remember correctly that you started the RockboxMuseum page? I'd like one thing taken off from there but am not sure of the page's purpose
19:00:27rasheramiconn: Do with it as you please - I'm certainly not going to touch it
19:00:29BigBambiMarcGuay: But yes, for me, ND is not 'permissive'
19:01:16MarcGuaypixelma: It's basically for pages that are currently not useful. Out of date stuff that will only confuse users...
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19:01:51rasherBigBambi: For our purpose (to be able to fix/modify themes), it's certainly not permissive.
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19:02:04BigBambirasher: Exactly
19:02:15pixelmaMarcGuay: I think the TriggerManual linked from there is still very helpful because the (tex) manual is not very detailed on that yet
19:02:25BigBambirasher: I initially mis-read ND as NC
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19:02:48MarcGuaypixelma: I copied what I thought was important to the manual but I think you're right that some things may have been left out.
19:03:10pixelmaI think I saw another page on triggered recording in the wiki but the former was more helpful to me
19:03:18amiconnrasher: Regarding japanese and pronunciation - if it's really the case that japanese sapi engines cannot cope well with kanji, perhaps the japanese *voice* strings should use hiragana and katakana only? Not sure; I don't speak or read japanese, I'm only basing this on basic information about the 3 japanese writing systems
19:03:41MarcGuayIt's a pain moving themes because of the images. Are we just pointing them to the original uploaded location or moving the image?
19:03:53rasheramiconn: Ah, so the issue is not one of pronounciation, but one of writing system?
19:04:09BigBambiMarcGuay: If you look at what soap and I have done, we have replaced all relative paths with absolute, so you can just cut and paste
19:04:11rasheramiconn: I must have missed that. I thought he was simply modifying strings to sound better.
19:04:15pixelmaMarcGuay: ok, I'll keep that on my ToDo list only for now
19:04:21BigBambiMarcGuay: The images aren't a problem
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19:04:41MarcGuayBigBambi: Great, thanks.
19:05:01MarcGuaypixelma: Alrighty. There's always that dusty ManualToDo page as well... :)
19:05:27MarcGuaypixelma: Feel free to move stuff though, that Museum page is by no means fixed..
19:07:14LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: I just found the honey pot in one of my thumb drives!
19:07:16amiconnrasher: This was just a related idea of mine; the patch looks like it modifies strings to sound better (which is the wrong way of course)
19:07:38rasheramiconn: Ah okay.
19:08:18MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: Ha. Nice. Sorry for disasspearing earlier I had shattered Windows. Gotta run again now.. A demain...
19:08:22rasheramiconn: I'll suggest it to him
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19:10:14amiconnrasher: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_writing_system and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana especially "Hiragana are also used to give the pronunciation of kanji in a reading aid called furigana"
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19:13:34*amiconn is kinda annoyed by the slowness of the tracker
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19:14:36*mrkiko is annoyed generally
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19:18:23amiconnThe check for existing vendor attribute is weird too. The sapi docs say that one should use 'On Error' to catch runtime errors caused by nonexisting attributes. MatchAttributes() has a very different purpose
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19:20:13amiconnWhile it might work here, it's undocumented use (MatchAttributes requires a semicolon separated list of <attribute>=<value> pairs, which are then checked against the object
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19:40:04ImaginalI am still having problems with nothing showing up in the "recently added" section. The database has been initialized. Files were added. Database updated. Ipod powered back down, and database committed. Any ideas?
19:43:21pixelmaI believe this function needs the "Gather Runtime Data" option enabled to work, maybe you can find that info in the manual or the DataBase wiki page
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19:45:32ImaginalGather runtime data is set to yes
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19:59:50mrkikoHas anyone talked about rockbox crashing with voice enabled on H3xx models? I tried with a site-generated build downloaded some days ago, 7 days ago.
19:59:54mrkikoand it happens
20:00
20:01:19domonokyhow does it crash ? any error message ?
20:02:41mrkikoNo: as always the crash is immediate and there are no ways to catch the player off the crash: I need to reset it. And, interesting: I can reproduce the crash only when no audio is active except for the voice.
20:02:44bertrikmrkiko, I know of a bug with H3xx that causes it to skip tracks sometimes when battery level announcing is enabled
20:03:13mrkikoI know this also but it's not my problem...
20:03:22mrkikosince I have the time to find skipped tracks :)
20:03:28mrkikofortunately...
20:03:44domonokymrkiko: please retest with current build and voice file from the website.
20:03:47LloreanWell, if there's no error message, what do you mean by "crash"?
20:03:48mrkikothe problem with the bug I'm referring is basically one - I can't trigger it reliably enough...
20:04:13mrkikoI mean that the player will not react aniway to anything and will stay locked.
20:04:18LloreanSo it freezes?
20:04:19mrkikothe battery in this state consumes very quickly
20:04:24LloreanDoes the screen continue to update or not?
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20:04:25mrkikoso I imagine the CPU is in a loop.
20:04:33mrkikono
20:04:44LloreanSo the RTC stops changing?
20:04:54mrkikoany key is ignored. I made a screen check with the help of someone and it seems the player is freezed
20:05:57mrkikoDon't know. I spoke about this constantly on september, but since I haven't found a way to produce the problem reliably I stopped. Now I have 3 H3xx players, and the bug verifies on all them.
20:06:04mrkikoSo it's not an hardware specificp roblem.
20:06:14LloreanIs there a bug report for it, with steps to reproduce using a current build?
20:06:33pixelmaI saw occasional and unexpected freezes on my M5 (which uses the same CPU as the H300), just when browsing the file tree for example, with voice enabled but that hasn't happened in a while to me
20:07:12mrkikoNo: a bug report was filled at that time by another user (blind, I remember), but it was closed since no-one was able to reproduce it...
20:07:41Lloreanmrkiko: Well if you can verify absolutely that the problem is still around, file a new one with new instructions.
20:08:29mrkikoLlorean: yes, I'll do. Tonight, I will try to reproduce it in my bed :)
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20:09:19mrkikoaniway: I can trigger it more esaily whitin the file browser.
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20:10:34mrkikoshould I be registered to fill a bug report?
20:10:39mrkikoAnd if so, is the registration process accessible?
20:11:09LloreanWe've had blind users make use of the tracker before, so some have found it so.
20:12:12pixelmamrkiko: do you use a different language (other than English). I'm not sure if that matters but maybe it does...
20:13:34*pixelma wonders whether "Catch mem accesses" works on H300 and if that could give some info
20:13:56pixelmaguess it should work but I don't know
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20:18:26Nico_Pbertrik: maybe Thomas Schott should be added to CREDITS
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20:20:22bertrikNico_P, I don't know the policy for that. Should anyone who gets their patch submitted be added to the CREDITS?
20:20:32Nico_PI think that's the policy
20:20:39bertrikOk
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20:22:21rasherUnless it's a change that is small enough that it could have been given verbally, I think anyone who writes code that ends up in Rockbox gets added.
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20:24:17Bagderyes, we should not be restrictive about adding contributors there imho
20:24:34bertrikThis is the fix he contributed: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9203?getfile=17119
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20:29:00bertrikOK, I'll add him then
20:29:47rasherI'd say that's just over the lower limit if it was up to me
20:31:40peturbugger... MarcGuay said 'A demain' :(
20:31:49mrkiko...
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20:32:13mrkikopixelma: english
20:32:49*petur kicks mrkiko
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20:33:41pixelmapetur: why?
20:34:07mrkikopetur: why
20:34:35mrkikopetur: "..." means I'm reading text
20:34:43mrkikonot on the current window
20:34:55peturmrkiko: I thought the 'english' was directed at me, not pixelma
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20:36:04mrkikopetur: ok; english is an insult? :)
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20:36:49pixelmaa misunderstanding...
20:37:29mrkikopixelma: aniway Now I'm not able to trigger it. I know it will happen when I won't, so these days I will retry.
20:37:33mrkikoI'm sure...
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20:41:39preglowrasher: why, that's most excellent
20:41:44preglowyour web tools really are great
20:42:39rasherI just added that test - I never knew it was an issue until pixelma/petur noticed
20:42:57rasherBy pure luck, the Danish translation only had a couple
20:43:34peturI never knew until the compilation of my patch gave a warning for certain languages... still do not understand why
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20:44:37pixelmaI don't understand why it doesn't show in other places if it is an issue
20:46:05rasherI guess we need to make translators aware of the problems.php page in some way
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20:47:35bertrikpetur, I notice that some dutch translations are taken literally from english but could have been translated, also some voice translations seem to be missing. Ok if I have a go at some of them?
20:47:51petursure
20:48:11ImaginalI am still having problems with nothing showing up in the "recently added" section. The database has been initialized. Files were added. Database updated. Ipod powered back down, and database committed. Any ideas?
20:48:48LloreanImaginal: You shouldn't need to commit after an update.
20:49:23ImaginalLlorean: It just says that when i turn it back on
20:49:43LloreanHow did you update?
20:49:49bertrikIf a voice translation is missing, it's not spoken right? or is there some kind of fallback mechanism such that the normal translation is spoken in that case?
20:50:05ImaginalSettings->General->Database->Update Database
20:50:20LloreanImaginal: And had you had your database committed and fully working before doing that?
20:50:21pixelmabertrik: no fallback
20:50:34ImaginalLlorean: yes
20:51:09ImaginalThe new additions can be found in the database artist, album... but not in recently added
20:51:27LloreanImaginal: If you're getting a commit on reboot it's re-initializing.
20:51:31LloreanYou shouldn't need to reboot in the first place.
20:51:53LloreanWhat revision of Rockbox are you using?
20:51:59ImaginalLlorean: today's build
20:52:05LloreanThat's not an answer
20:52:08LloreanThere are many builds a day.
20:52:20ImaginalLlorean: one moment
20:52:30LloreanIt's a download from the website, unpatched?
20:53:04ImaginalLlorean: yes r18192-080804
20:53:17LloreanWhy are you rebooting after updating?
20:53:56ImaginalLlorean: just powering it off. I wasn't sure if it needed it or not, because whatever I'm doing right now isn't working. Why not?
20:55:25LloreanWell, your database is having some sort of problem because it shouldn't re-commit.
20:55:34ImaginalWhat steps should I take to make sure this problem is not my fault?
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20:55:49LloreanDoes it re-commit occasionally if you don't change the files on your disk?
20:56:38ImaginalWhen I had autoupdate on, it seemed to commit after every powerdown, but when I don't change files, it doesn't commit
20:56:48Imaginalor powerup, i guess
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20:56:57LloreanDo your files have album art or large comments in their metadata?
20:57:27ImaginalLlorean: no, they have been optimized for portable playback
20:58:06Llorean"Optimized for portable playback" doesn't mean anything to me.
20:58:16LloreanWhat, exactly, do you mean by that term?
20:59:07ImaginalI had some m4a's with album art, ran them through a program to strip the album art and comments
20:59:39Imaginalthere are many formats through many years on this device though, so I don't think that is the problem
20:59:47Lloreanthe only program I know of that uses the term "optimize" for MP4 metadata simply moves it to the front of the file, it doesn't remove any.
21:00
21:00:37LloreanHaving a wide range of files and types increases the odds of the problem. If a single file is causing the update to fail and require a re-commit, then it's going to happen every time until you identify that one file and fix it.
21:01:04Imaginalfair enough, would that really have anything to do with "recently added" not working but everything else, including playback and ratings, works fine?
21:01:20Llorean"recently added" won't work after a commit, because *everything* is readded in that case.
21:01:34Imaginalit remembers the number of times it was played though
21:01:42LloreanSo?
21:01:54LloreanYou're making assumptions based on two different features.
21:02:23ImaginalIt is the same database, though, isn't it?
21:02:47LloreanBut two different features of the database.
21:03:18LloreanLook, I've told you what needs to be done. You need to figure out which files are causing it to commit again. This is a problem whether or not it fixes the recently added issue.
21:03:27LloreanIf you don't believe it will, it's still the first thing you need to do toward figuring it out.
21:03:39LloreanSo you're welcome to believe I'm incorrect, but you still need to do it before proceeding.
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21:05:20ImaginalLlorean: Thank you for your help. I think, to narrow this down, I will remove all audio file. Add one mp3, update, then add another and see if it appears. That should show either *all* of my files are bad, or something else is going on, right?
21:06:03LloreanOr that some are, and among those are the ones you picked.
21:07:40ImaginalYes, i understand that, but i think that is unlikely. I will try across several file types, and recently copied cds.
21:07:52ImaginalJust to make sure
21:08:01LloreanIt seems very likely one of your files is the problem
21:08:09LloreanThousands of people are using the database without this problem.
21:08:13LloreanYou, on the other hand, are having it.
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21:09:12ImaginalAgain, I understand and would like to fix it.
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21:10:08LloreanWell, you seem to keep suggesting that you think something else is at fault, and that you should put a minimal amount of effort into checking, then if something happens that you expected to happen, say the problem is elsewhere.
21:11:20LloreanYou're going to need to do quite a bit of testing before you can discount your files as being the problem, and may need to go so far as to find a known good file.
21:11:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:12:32LloreanThough you can probably create one by stripping all tags from an MP3 and then putting just Title, Artist, and Album on it.
21:13:25ImaginalLlorean: I'm sorry if I offended you. I've been testing for 2 days, running different scenarios. Accounts of this same problem have shown up in the forums too, but I haven't heard a solution. I will get back to you after I have tried your suggestions. Hopefully you are right.
21:14:40LloreanImaginal: Accounts in the forum are *regularly* resolved by finding a file with problematic metadata.
21:14:59LloreanIt's not that we haven't seen this problem before, but that we haven't seen it where deep investigation of the involved files hasn't resolved it.
21:15:41LloreanWhat would be particularly helpful is if, after you've identified which files are problematic, you file a proper bug report with what exact metadata causes the database update to fail
21:16:48ImaginalSounds good to me. Have a great day.
21:16:53*petur wonders if JdGordon|zzz is really still asleep
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21:18:21peturbah... the term 'scrolling' really is confusing in the list code - should have been 'wrapping'
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21:20:13*amiconn experienced nasty side effects of mixed viewported / not viewported screens several times now
21:20:52amiconnIf you enter the radio context menu and select an item that scrolls, this scrolling item won't vanish when you go back to the radio screen, but will overlay it
21:21:53peturat least you get scrolling - I can't get my list item(s) to scroll :(
21:22:16petureven when setting scroll_all to true, nothing
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21:22:37*petur fires up insight
21:22:48amiconnPerhaps you're redrawing too often?
21:22:56amiconnItems only scroll if you let them
21:23:02peturhmmmm
21:23:10peturgood point
21:24:17pixelmait's probably updated quite often for the file size?
21:25:01pixelmaor peakmeters
21:25:30amiconnThe list?
21:26:16pixelmawell I don't know the viewport borders
21:31:34Juho_oh man my sansa player doesnt show as a portable drive
21:32:16Juho_so rockbox utility doesnt find it
21:32:44scorcheJuho_: is it in MSC/UMS mode as opposed to MTP?
21:32:59Juho_oh jeah -.-
21:33:12pixelmaand which sansa player and the original firmware version could be helpful too
21:34:48Juho_ok i set it to msc
21:35:49Juho_e260 is the model and firmware is 01.02.24E
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21:41:11Juho_so i ran the complete installation
21:41:29Juho_now it should work when i plug the player out?
21:41:36Juho_off*
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21:42:29Horschtso, who won the summer of code?
21:44:41petursee wiki
21:45:02Juho_how can i boot the original firmware?
21:45:20linuxstbsee manual
21:45:54scorcheit isnt really a "won" sort of thing...
21:46:28Lloreanscorche: Perhaps the correct answer is "the users"?
21:46:42scorchethat remains to be seen ;)
21:46:46Horschtit's not a competition?
21:47:10linuxstbNo, it's a summer job for a few hundred (?) people.
21:47:10scorcheHorscht: certain people are selected to complete their proposed projects
21:47:31peturlinuxstb: 900+ I think
21:47:33scorchestudents are essentially working for an open source org while google funds their work
21:48:02scorcheLlorean: although the main purpose is to get more committers, so the project as a whole, i would say
21:48:25linuxstbWe should stop hiring committers then ;)
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21:52:00bertrikhmm, do we accept patches that only fix source code comments?
21:52:10peturwhy not
21:52:25linuxstbbertrik: Are you talking about the c200/e200 radio comment?
21:52:37bertriklinuxstb, yes, FS #9234
21:52:59linuxstbThat comment seems against the whole idea of using hardware-feature defines - if we need to update comments every time a new target using that hardware is added...
21:55:15bertrikpetur, it may set a precedent for people to submit non-essential patches
21:55:19pixelmayeah, that comment should refer to the tuner chip IMO
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21:57:14peturbetrik: in the end, you always commit patches on a case by case basis, so no problem there
21:57:55mrkikoI'm trying th understand better how rockbox works, but datasheets are at least never accessible :)
21:58:59linuxstbbertrik: That patch isn't even correct - the Cowon D2 also uses that tuner....
21:59:25bertrikmaybe we should not even mention sansa c200 or e200 at all then
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21:59:50linuxstbbertrik: Yes, that's what I was trying to say.
22:00
22:00:18*pixelma feels ignored ;)
22:01:10*mrkiko feels displeased for pixelma
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22:06:16MyGenerationhi
22:07:04mrkikoMyGeneration: hi
22:07:08bluebrotherho
22:07:31scorcheho
22:09:37MyGenerationbye
22:09:43 Part MyGeneration
22:09:45mrkikois "ho" a synonimn of "hi"?
22:10:05bluebrotherbo
22:10:08peturit's a dwarf thing...
22:10:22ZincAlloy'lo
22:10:25mrkikooops, I don't know "dwaf" either - I need to be flashed :)
22:10:28bluebrotherand now for the hard question: what did MyGeneration want to tell us?
22:10:51mrkikoprobably nothing
22:12:08bertrikoh sorry pixelma
22:12:32pixelma;)
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22:26:20mrkikoMyGeneration: and so? :)
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22:27:13bertrikbluebrother, can't get rbutil to run in dutch anymore
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22:29:36bluebrotherbertrik: strange. You have removed the quotes from the options line, have you?
22:29:53bertrikbluebrother, I mean the user interface language
22:30:46bluebrotherah, you mean the dropdown list from the voice file dialog?
22:31:57bertrikno, I mean the language tab in the configuration dialog shows nederlands, but all of the user interface texts are still english
22:33:10bluebrotherhmm. Checking ...
22:33:35bertrikgerman seems to work though
22:33:51bertrikmaybe I just need to do a make clean, I'll try that
22:34:09bluebrotherno, I can reproduce the issue.
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22:43:18rasherbertrik: Have you checked rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/problems.php?lang=nederlands">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/problems.php?lang=nederlands ?
22:44:31*petur reckons a lot of those sysfonts will soon be history
22:51:56bertrikrasher, yes it helped a lot, but I see now I missed a few and there were also a few where I didn't know what to do
22:53:01*domonoky can also reproduce this rbutil issue with nederlands translation... its strange..
22:53:54bluebrotheryep ... I really don't understand it
22:54:47amiconnrasher: I fail to understand why fs#9148 changes UTF8decode() in sapu_voice.vbs
22:54:59amiconn*sapi_voice.vbs
22:55:54amiconnI have a fix for the missing vendor attribute (although it's not really important - sapi_voice.vbs sets 'On Error Resume Next', meaning that error won't stop it, but just be reported on exit)
22:56:43rasheramiconn: Maybe his translation is using a broken charset? I really don't know what he's doing
22:58:21amiconnThat might be the reason - *.lang must be utf-8, but if he uses the local charset, his "fix" will make UTF8decode() effectively do nothing, meaning it will work right for him
23:00
23:01:16peturpixelma, MarcgGuay (for the logs),... : new recscreen patch at 9208, if all goes well I'll probably commit tomorrow (comments welcome)
23:01:38Lloreanrasher: On the issue of "voicing other languages", any chance it might be possible to add an extra string containing a romanized, phonetic version of the string so that there's a standard for when there's not a native TTS, or for when native TTSes are finicky and a straight phonetic one might at least be more consistently understandable? Or does this sound crazy?
23:01:41petur*MarcGuay
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23:03:08amiconnA phonetic version would require using the international phonetic alphabet - and TTS engines which understand it
23:05:49LloreanWell, is that too problematic though?
23:07:21amiconnI don't know whether any of the widespread tts engines understand the international phonetic alphabet
23:07:26rasherI think the problem is finding someone who can reliably write anything in IPA
23:07:50Lloreanrasher: Well, yeah.
23:08:13rasherI think such a feature would be woefully under-used
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23:11:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:15:28Zagorwhat was the reasoning behind making skip_length (formerly study mode) skip minutes instead of seconds?
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23:17:40LloreanZagor: Coarse seeking isn't much use within a short file, the normal accelerated seeking is *probably* going to be fast enough there?
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23:19:19ZagorLlorean: if speed is what you are looking for, perhaps. but that was not the purpose of study mode as I understand it. the rename to skip_length did more than rename, it changed the function into something else. I'm wondering if that was on purpose.
23:20:24LloreanI'm not sure.
23:20:33LloreanWhat purpose did you see study mode as then, that's different from the current feature?
23:20:52linuxstbWhat settings did we lose?
23:21:23Zagorwe lost the ability to skip back/forth x seconds.
23:22:26linuxstbSo "x" could be any number of seconds (from 1 upwards) ?
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23:23:41Zagorlinuxstb: in study mode yes, iiuc. but the current code only steps whole minutes.
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23:24:15ZagorI can imagine cases where skipping 10 seconds or so would be useful. for example when, you know, studying...
23:24:27linuxstbYes, I'm just looking at the patch that changed it, and it looks like the previous patch was configurable from 1 to 250 seconds.
23:24:51LloreanYou can seek 10 seconds very quickly anyway, though.
23:24:59linuxstbLlorean: Exactly 10 seconds?
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23:25:20ZagorLlorean: not terribly quickly. and not terribly conveniently
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23:25:24Lloreanlinuxstb: If you needed to skip precisely 10 seconds, and did not need to seek 1 second either direction, I can see being able to jump 10 as being reliably faster.
23:26:00LloreanBut if you need to go over one short passage repeatedly, A-B repeat is for that.
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23:26:21ZagorA-B is quite far from this
23:26:30linuxstbLlorean: But really, what's the harm in having sub 1-minute settings?
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23:26:47LloreanIt takes me ~1.5 seconds to seek 10 seconds forward in a file.
23:26:58Lloreanlinuxstb: Mixing units was apparently a complication.
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23:27:26Zagorso let's just stick to seconds
23:27:50LloreanSo we should have "60, 120, 180, etc" for the larger values?
23:28:17Zagoryes
23:28:42linuxstbObviously it would be better to have a nice formatting function. I don't know if there are other cases where that could be used...
23:29:45Zagoror we make a fixed list, like today. only we include some sub-minute durations. then we can mix units any way we want.
23:30:10Zagorsee the "trigger start duration" setting for example
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23:31:09LloreanWell, go ahead and fix it then. AFAIK it's the way it is just because minutes seemed a more reasonable unit than seconds to the person who finally said "Okay, fine, I'll fix study mode to make more sense"
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23:31:36LloreanIt's one of those cases where nobody was doing the work, so it ended up how the person who stepped up saw the feature.
23:32:04LloreanPersonally, I don't think it's problematic the way it is, but I don't see any reason not to include more options as long as nothing's lost.
23:32:16Zagoryeah that's what I thought. but I had to ask.
23:32:37*Zagor pings preglow
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23:42:39Soapkugel, on the "inheritance" of CC-BY-SA (or any other license for that matter) - This is something I am legally unsure of. I strongly suspect the derivative work's author needs to make the decision to either: A-Pull the theme or B-Honour the original license terms. I don't think we have the legal ground to stand on to take it upon ourselves to make that decision.
23:43:30kugelSoap: I thought it wouldn't need to be specifically CC-BY-SA for the wps gallery (only for the theme site)
23:43:51Soapyou're missing my point.
23:44:49SoapMy point is - in direct response to what you said to me in here earlier today - is that I do not think we can "assume" a license for derivative work "B" simply because work "A" (of which B is a modification of) is licensed.
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23:45:32SoapThe author of B might be breaking the terms of the license for A by releasing B, but that does not mean we can put A's license on B for him.
23:46:18SoapIIUC the author of B needs to either 1 - remove the infringing work, or 2 - abide by the terms of the license on A.
23:46:32SoapI do not believe we have the legal right to assume answer #2.
23:46:34LloreanSoap: Actually.
23:46:36bluebrotherthere's another point: B might have taken the work of A before he released it with that specific license, and the license used earlier might be different
23:46:44Soapthat too, bluebrother.
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23:47:02jac0b|wI am installing the gigabeat S bootloader
23:47:07SoapBut with me unable to view history of the larger wiki pages (Server Error 500) I can't find that out.
23:47:10bluebrotheror A released his work using various different licenses. See Qt for an example.
23:47:11LloreanMy understanding of "Viral" licenses is that if the item A is "virally licensed" and item B is based on it, it gets the license whether the releasor of B states the license or not.
23:47:22kugelSoap: CC-BY-SA requires a license (simliar or compatible), so we can assume a license
23:47:23jac0b|wbut the player didn't reboot after I sent the nk.bin to the player
23:47:23LloreanAssuming that B is based on the virally licensed copy of A
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23:48:25LloreanThat's why once companies have distributed something based on GPL code, they're obligated to release the source and can't merely say "oops, we recall our distribution of that"
23:48:26Soapkugel, What if the author of B was ignorant of A's license, doesn't like A's license, and never intended to use A's license? IIUC the author of B can not be compelled to release using A's license, he can simply withdraw the work.
23:48:33LloreanBut it does depend on the license being viral and clearly so.
23:49:03LloreanSoap: He can withdraw the work, but any copy of the work already released inherits the license still, because he did not have the ability to deny that license.
23:49:09LloreanIgnorance doesn't prevent the license from happening.
23:49:18kugelSo, license inheritance is nonsense at all?
23:49:39SoapIf you are correct, Llorean, then I am clearly wrong. It is still an unknown as far as I am concerned and until the issue is settled I am hesitant to start slapping licenses around.
23:49:42LloreanHe can withdraw the original copy, and cease his own distribution of it, but if anyone else got the file, it's more or less too late. You see this with GPL disputes and commercial vendors frequently.
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23:49:49LloreanBut, this is specifically GPL
23:50:00LloreanCC licenses I'm not familiar with how strictly they're inherited.
23:50:14SoapAnd we /clearly/ are not vetting the validity of these licenses.
23:50:29SoapHow many of those "CC-BY-SA" works contain copyright infringing images?
23:50:33LloreanAnd, in this case, it sounds like B may be based on a copy of A without a clear license anyway.
23:50:59kugelyou're not vetting the license you choosed for the theme site?
23:51:13SoapI really don't want to get into the game of making licensing decisions, I feel it is much safer to take authors at face value and not try to rewrite history.
23:51:20Lloreankugel: We aren't vetting whether the themes *can* be licensed under it.
23:51:40Zagoranybody want an archos jukebox 6000?
23:52:00Soaprockboxable? (I need to look up my archos lines)
23:52:13ZagorSoap: it's the first rockbox target
23:52:29Soaphow much (delivered to the US)?
23:52:37ZagorI have an owner who offers to send it to a dev
23:52:39Soap(and how large of a drive in it currently?)
23:52:49SoapI'm no coder - forget it.
23:53:11jac0b|whey on the gigabeat S can I delete the folders on the main drive?
23:53:19LloreanSoap: I think what is necessary is someone tell the author "You released the a work based on a CC-by-SA (or whatever) license. This obligates you to pick terms compatible with it. You can't unrelease it as it's been downloaded, but you can pick your own license within the limits of the original one and need to do so."
23:53:54SoapI feel much better about that, Llorean, than doing it ourselves.
23:53:58LloreanYeah.
23:55:07LloreanSince I think there is some elbow room, but they do have obligations if they've distributed it at all (which they have simply by uploading it to us, as that's distribution)
23:55:36NJoinculture [0] (n=none@cpc1-bele3-0-0-cust658.belf.cable.ntl.com)
23:56:05SoapZagor, on another topic: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/rdiff/Main/WpsIpod5g?type=history fails to load.
23:56:22SoapI ASSume it is because it is a 468 revision history of a large wiki page?
23:56:35pixelmaSoap: in firefox?
23:56:37Soap*468 revision long
23:56:47Soappixelma, yes - but it is a 500 server error, FWIW.
23:56:56 Quit jfc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:57:14 Quit desowin ("KVIrc 4.0.0 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/")
23:57:29pixelmaah, ok. Didn't have a look and just assumed that it's the problem that FF often has with very long pages
23:57:30 Join jfc [0] (n=john@dpc691978010.direcpc.com)
23:57:58SoapIt might be - hold on FF is still trying.

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