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#rockbox log for 2008-08-12

00:02:22 Join cbr|w [0] (n=cbr@212.98.160.130)
00:02:41Lloreanrasher: Okay, it was *supposed* to be closed, I'm not sure why it wasn't.
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00:29:01SoapJeffreyRodriguez, I don't mean to be a party-pooper - but I don't see where you have rights to redistribute the FSM images...
00:30:41 Quit herrwaldo ("Konversation terminated!")
00:30:57SoapOutside that, nicely done, clean and well commented WPS.
00:32:43 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Do quit now, there's a demon around the corner!")
00:33:43n1spixelma: thanks for checking it out :)
00:35:50JeffreyRodriguezi read the websites copyright and it cc-by-sa and states in the details anything can be used if credit is given
00:36:06JeffreyRodriguezput credit in the cfg and wps and in the description
00:36:16linuxstbJeffreyRodriguez: No, there's a "NC" clause on http://www.venganza.org/
00:36:18JeffreyRodriguezalso emailed the owned
00:36:25JeffreyRodriguezNC?
00:36:40linuxstbNon-commercial
00:36:42JeffreyRodriguezowner*
00:37:01JeffreyRodriguezhmm
00:37:03linuxstbAnd your theme is just plain CC-BY-SA
00:37:35JeffreyRodriguezdidnt think opensource theme on opensource software would fall under commercial
00:38:07Soapthe point is you can't change the clause the images are released under.
00:38:15Soaps/clause/restrictions/
00:38:35linuxstbJeffreyRodriguez: Rockbox's licence (the GPL) doesn't prevent commercial use, so we would prefer the themes didn't either.
00:38:39SoapI didn't see the CC-BY-NC-SA note on the site - I'll look again.
00:38:49linuxstbSoap: It's right at the bottom of the home page
00:38:51JeffreyRodriguezIll send the owner another email and ask if he says its not ok ill take it down
00:39:04JeffreyRodriguezits at the bottom read click details to
00:39:52JeffreyRodriguezIll send him another email and ask
00:40:08Soaplinuxstb, yea - just found it.
00:40:19JeffreyRodriguezis it ok?
00:40:52Soapat the minimum you need to mention the text of your theme is CC-by-sa, but the images are cc-by-nc-sa
00:40:53linuxstbJeffreyRodriguez: IIUC, your theme must also be CC-BY-NC-SA if you use those images
00:41:12JeffreyRodriguezahhh
00:41:27JeffreyRodriguezis it possible to delete and reupload?
00:41:38*linuxstb is starting to dislike the variety of CC licenses...
00:42:17SoapJeffreyRodriguez, you don't have deletion rights, just upload a second file and change the link.
00:42:25MarcGuayhttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9236 - Seems the "reboot on connect" is still imperfect. Tempted to close the task, though...
00:42:31JeffreyRodriguezok.. will that put me in the graveyard
00:42:37JeffreyRodriguezsince its nc
00:42:41linuxstbCan't you simply replace the file? It will then become v2 of it.
00:42:57linuxstbi.e. attach a file with the same name.
00:43:03JeffreyRodriguezok
00:43:12amiconnHrmpf. There seems to be a problem on Ondio wrt writing to large MMCs :(
00:43:56 Join gregzx [0] (n=chatzill@dta83.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
00:43:58Soapno - it is still a "permissive" license - which will allow others to "fix" your theme and such - which is the only requirement for the gallery at this time. linuxstb and others want the official replacement theme site (coming soon) to be permissive and non-restrictive licenses only.
00:44:16MarcGuayI like how Tomers replied with a top-post. I hope it was meant to be funny, because it is.
00:44:32Soap"no" as in it won't put you in the graveyard.
00:45:38JeffreyRodriguezdamn forgot to click hide in my haste to reupload
00:46:25JeffreyRodriguezhope someone can remove it from the bottom since it seems I cannot
00:46:37MarcGuayJeffreyRodriguez: Manage -> Hide.
00:46:45JeffreyRodriguezok thanks :)
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00:54:57JeffreyRodriguezok files and description updated with CC-BY-NC-SA as license
00:56:34 Quit ender` (" Everything we know about the Devil has been told us by the the friends of God.")
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01:08:46 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
01:09:02amiconnMarcGuay: "reboot on connect" has always been unreliable (for usb) since distinction of usb chargers from true usb has been added
01:11:37MarcGuayamiconn: I see. I thought it was back to being reliable. It seems as though detecting chargers is a bit broken as well (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6465)
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01:15:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:19:59MarcGuayHow seriously should people take product license agreements such as "You may not modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble"?
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01:40:12n17ikh|LappyHow far along is dock communications on the sansas?
01:40:37n17ikh|LappyI know the FAQ says remotes don't work but how about line out?
01:41:21advcomp2019n17ikh|Lappy, line out works the last i knew
01:43:06n17ikh|Lappyany idea if work is currently being done on the other functionality of the connector?
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02:13:14JdGordon|zzzamiconn: I know that (re the playlist_control file format)
02:13:18 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
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02:25:04rwong48rockbox supports unicode by default right? i can't find anything on the wiki :(
02:25:10 Quit ahti_ (Success)
02:25:58rasherrwong48: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UnicodeGuide
02:26:40rwong48yeah.. i read that
02:26:46rwong48it doesn't say anything about rockbox itself supporting unicode :(
02:27:05rwong48my tags are all right.. but when i move it to my rockbox'd sansa e280, filenames and tags show up as squares
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02:30:47krazykitrwong48, you need to use one of the unicode fonts
02:31:25 Quit JeffreyRodriguez (" Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-")
02:31:40rwong48yeah, i figured i need to do something like that
02:31:49 Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]")
02:32:42rasherAlso, jesus christ, the UnicodeGuide page is in Windows-1251 encoding. That's just sad.
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02:35:33rwong48for shame.
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03:15:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:15:31DBUGEnqueued KICK Xsf_Nrg_4fr
04:15:31Xsf_Nrg_4frReal name: Jake Onami Agnew
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04:19:07scorche...
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04:53:29n17ikh|Lappywow
04:53:35n17ikh|LappyI had never used the database feature before
04:53:39n17ikh|Lappyit's great, btw
05:00
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08:37:04LinusNcool_walking_: still editing GoldenQuotes?
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08:42:41CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
08:42:41*GodEater thinks the quality of GoldenQuotes has diminished in recent months. We need some new classics.
08:43:00JdGordonyou knwo new classic is an oxymoron right?
08:43:30cool_walking_LinusN: no
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08:44:13LinusNcool_walking_: ok, thx
08:44:13GodEaterJdGordon: did I inadvertently generate new material for a quote ? :)
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08:51:24JdGordonwhat is __builtin_alloca() ?
08:51:47*amiconn points JdGordon to the gcc manual
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09:59:37Yonderinghmm silly thought maybe, but has anyone experimented with putting a laptop ssd or flash disk into a hard disk player?
09:59:51B4gderyes, many
10:00
10:00:04B4gderand yes, it works
10:00:07Yonderingmixed results I assume?
10:00:09Yonderingah, cool
10:00:26B4gderI haven't kept up with the details, I think we have a wiki page for it
10:00:41Yonderingthanks.. looking :)
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10:05:31GodEaterwell you'd have to have a pretty big player for fitting a laptop drive in
10:06:05 Join Nibbler [0] (n=Nibbler@91-67-150-33-dynip.superkabel.de)
10:08:00JdGordonwell the playlist side of the new bmark stuff is done... dunno if it works or not though :p
10:08:13scorcheGodEater: like all the archos HD devices? ;)
10:10:34Yonderingdon't some of them use 1" drives?
10:10:41Yonderingor 1.5"
10:11:34B4gder1.8" yes
10:11:55Yonderingyeah.. that's the one, thanks.
10:12:02B4gdersome of them tiny laptops use such disks
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10:25:55JdGordonshows how long its been since I've used scanf... forgot the &'s :p
10:28:04GodEaterscorche: I thought modern laptop drives were all SATA
10:28:15JdGordonok, why isnt playlist_start() starting the music?!
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10:41:28JdGordonhells yeah! resuming from a .bmark is working
10:42:02JdGordonnow to creating the bmark file..
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10:54:24JdGordonok, this was slighlty eaiser than I thought :D
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11:37:23JdGordonis anyone concerned that my bookmark changes wouldnt allow bookmarks to be "browsed" while a different playlist is running?
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11:46:22pixelmaso I would have to stop playback to chose another bookmark?
11:46:45JdGordonit would happen automatically...
11:47:19JdGordonin theory it could be loaded into a new playlist, but there is a problem with fining a buffer for filenames so this limitation makes it easier
11:47:36 Join culture [0] (n=none@cpc1-bele3-0-0-cust658.belf.cable.ntl.com)
11:47:49JdGordonI've added a thing so the current playlist is backed up to a bmark when a different one is loaded to make resuming possible though
11:47:51pixelmathis doesn't sound nice. What if I just want to browse the bookmarks I have to chose another one to listen to?
11:47:55 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
11:48:23JdGordonno, sorry, to browse the list of bmark files then its fine, but browsing the resume points in a bmark isnt possible
11:48:40JdGordonunless you're happy with browsing as 0:12345
11:50:43 Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:52:17pixelmais it currently possible? I don't use bookmarks but if those who do say that the possibility to have more than one resume points is nice and will be kept, then I think they should be browsable as before. But maybe ask for other opinions...
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11:52:46JdGordonmulti resume points is working... just need a gui for it
11:52:56JdGordonbut the bookmark has to be loaded which is new
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12:11:17znesshello
12:11:20znessanyone here?
12:11:29B4gderyes, many
12:12:06znesstheyre pretty quiet.
12:12:19znesscan anyone help me with some r/b related things?
12:12:28B4gderjust ask
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12:13:28znessis there any way i can put songs ive bought of itunes?
12:13:47znesswith some copyright ripping prgrm or something?
12:14:00znessput the songs on my ipod i mean
12:14:58GodEaterwe don't discuss methods of violating your license with apple I'm afraid
12:15:10znessokey doke.
12:15:15scorcheitunes does sell songs without DRM as well
12:15:25B4gderdon't pay for crippled data
12:15:29GodEaterthere is that
12:15:31scorcheso, some may work...
12:15:53znessyeah well i just bought thom yorkes album 'the eraser'
12:15:57znesscant listen to it.
12:16:00znessoh well.
12:16:28pixelmayou couls still listen to the songs with the Apple firmware
12:16:31pixelma*could
12:16:35znessi know
12:17:12znessis there anyway without uninstalling rockbox you can start up your ipod with default apple firmware?
12:17:32scorcheyou would need to edit a bit of code and recompile the bootloader
12:17:33GodEateryes, it's covered in the manual
12:17:49GodEateroh sorry, didn't spot the "default" bit
12:18:25scorcheassuming you do mean you want it to be default and are not asking for "the default"
12:18:41pixelmazness: do you mean boot into the apple firmware are just let it boot at default into it (before trying to load Rockbox)?
12:19:10znessi mean
12:19:18znessat startup
12:19:29znesswith rockbox installed
12:19:36znesscan you just go into normal ipod?
12:19:44znessis there some button combo
12:19:51scorcheyolu can and that is covered in the manual
12:19:58scorches/yolu/you
12:20:23znesswhich section?
12:20:54scorcheunsure...if you are using adobe reader, there should be a search function...
12:21:11znessnot using adobe reader...
12:21:21znessah i may as well.
12:21:27scorchethen just read through the whole thing ;)
12:21:35znessill dl the file while i have a shower
12:21:36GodEaterjust flick the hold switch to "on" as soon as you power the ipod on
12:21:36znessbrb
12:22:26znessoh wow!
12:22:28znessexcellent
12:22:30zness!
12:22:36znessthanks a bunch GodEater
12:23:03GodEaternow read the manual!
12:23:15znessi did : (
12:23:30znesssorry if im being a noob, thanks for your help everyone.
12:23:34znessbye
12:24:14znessbut i have to say this is sweet, now i can listen to my itunes store music without uninstalling rockbox
12:24:16znessjoy!
12:24:19znessbut yeah bye
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13:15:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:39:26bobjimHey I modded my 4th gen ipod to use flash memory and now rockbox doesn't work giving me a ata error. Any help?
13:40:30n1sbobjim: you probably need a newer bootloader
13:43:12bobjimi got the latest ipod loader off http://rvvs89.ucc.asn.au/ipl/nightly/ . The rockbox logo displays but then I get the ata error
13:43:50LambdaCalculus37I think you shouldconsider building your own bootloader from source instead.
13:44:14bobjimwhat would the bootloader have to do with it?
13:44:44bobjimApple firmware works perfectly
13:45:23n1sthe bootloader has to read from the disk to start rockbox, to read from disk it needs to init ata, in the old versions that failed on certain flash cards, it has since been fixed but no new bootloader released
13:46:42bobjimok thanks. Where can I download the source?
13:47:08 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Do quit now, there's a demon around the corner!")
13:47:18n1seither http://build.rockbox.org/dist/build-source/rockbox.7z or from svn
13:47:56bobjimcheers ill give it a go
13:48:18gevaertspreglow: did you make any progress on the d2 sd during the last month or so while I was away?
13:49:00n1srasher: genlang now prints the header from each .lang file when building, was that intended?
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13:49:51B4gderhehe
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13:50:38B4gderit should only print it for the -u case I guess
13:51:51rashern1s: Huh, no, certainly not. Could've sworn I put it somewhere related to $update
13:52:38rasherCan't fix right now.
13:53:24n1sit's hardly critical, just annoying :)
13:54:02rasherwell, it should be as easy as adding a "and $update" in the appropriate if
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14:59:40mcuelenaerewpyh: I've added the first part of your vx767_usbtool.diff to SVN; I still don't get why you disabled the usb_set_configuration() call though (I tested it on Linux and it worked, did you use su(do)?)
15:00
15:02:28preglowgevaerts: none whatsoever, and truth to be told, i haven't done much towards it. i've taken quite a little break away from coding
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15:03:09gevaertspreglow: so you've done as much as I have ;)
15:03:16preglowi'm planning on going at it again soon now, though
15:04:51*gevaerts would also ask about nand progress, but he fears that people might start asking about progress on various usb issues
15:06:53olle-wphi
15:06:55olle-wpi'm curious about the resistance to mallocation in rockbox.
15:07:13olle-wpfirst, let me say that i have indeed read the wiki page
15:07:53olle-wpthe wiki page explains why memory allocation is not always a good thing, and why it might be risky to use in the wrong places
15:08:07preglowgevaerts: heh, nand is understandably worse than sd
15:08:26preglowthe thing stalling my sd progress is probably just some weird little bug
15:08:28preglowas always :/
15:09:00olle-wpbut from what i understand, malloc would most likely give some new potential to the project.
15:09:07GodEaterolle-wp: the other issue is that most of our targets don't have an MMU either
15:09:35gevaertsolle-wp: what "new potential" do you see being blocked by lack of malloc?
15:09:58preglownew potentail???
15:10:02preglowpotential...
15:10:03olle-wpGodEater: ok, there might be technical aspects i don't know of, but it can't be imposible.
15:10:15olle-wpgive me a minute
15:10:20preglowyou don't need an mmu for malloc, we could implement a malloc today
15:10:23preglowbut we don't want to...
15:10:29olle-wpexactly
15:10:32olle-wpyou don't want to
15:10:51olle-wpit is a good thing to never run out of memory
15:10:55preglowfor very good reasons. i sincerely doubt you've got a reason good enough to make us reconcider :)
15:11:07GodEaterpreglow: I never said that made it impossible ;)
15:11:15olle-wppreglow: sure, i'm just asking curiously,
15:11:16LambdaCalculus37I think our flat memory models works very well, thank you. :)
15:11:25LambdaCalculus37s/models/model
15:11:29preglowolle-wp: it's also a good thing to be forced to statically worst-case allocate all your memory, it helps you to think better about memory use
15:11:49olle-wpit's also a good thing to be able to use memory where it is needed, load/unload plugins,
15:11:54olle-wppreglow: yep.
15:12:08*GodEater puts the torch / pitchfork wielding villagers on alert.
15:12:34*LambdaCalculus37 lights his torch and hoists a pitchfork
15:12:37preglowolle-wp: yeah, but that's not strictly a malloc issue. it's malloc i don't want, not dynamic memory management
15:12:39olle-wpGodEater: i'm on dangerous waters
15:12:42*gevaerts primes his torch with some petrol, and sharpens his pitchfork
15:12:54preglowolle-wp: which pretty much means i think malloc like behaviour is good here and there, but not everywhere in the code, via malloc()
15:13:04GodEaterYELLOW ALERT
15:13:12*LambdaCalculus37 blares the siren
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15:13:41*gevaerts grabs his matchbox
15:13:44olle-wppreglow: that's kind of what i thought as well. to be able to use allocation precisely where it might be needed. using static allocation might one time or another be painful, for the reasons you said yourself.
15:13:47preglowwe currently have a malloc() like thing, but it can only run on startup, and i'd actually like to extend that to be able to run at any time, although resetting playback when doing so
15:13:59preglowi think it's called bufalloc()
15:14:56olle-wppreglow: i thought no malloc sibling survived the weaponry of your anti-malloc army
15:15:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:15:45preglowsure, it's been there since day one, i think
15:16:17gevaertsIt's used by some optional features like the database
15:16:35olle-wpassuming the worst-case scenario will restrict the usage of memory, assuming that you have reached the memory "ceiling" already.
15:16:37preglowand stuff like dir/playlist buffers
15:17:01preglowolle-wp: but we run the risk of hitting the worst-case scenario anyway with malloc, and then with not so good planning as we'd be able to have with static buffers
15:17:04olle-wpremoving the "roof", or allowing mem to be used where you want it to be used would be an intresting thing to do, not?
15:17:10preglowolle-wp: which would lead to crashes and bugs
15:17:28gevaertsolle-wp: the only way to remove the roof is to add an infinite amount of ram
15:17:49olle-wppreglow: let me just ask if you have reached maximum memory usage on some targets?
15:18:10preglowolle-wp: we have reached some limits, but we've never used all the memory, no
15:18:13olle-wpgevaerts: the roof is lower if you want to allocate statically of course.
15:18:16GodEaterAlso, as I see it, the problem isn't in implementing malloc(), but also implenting free() without horrible memory fragmentation occurring
15:18:19preglowolle-wp: but the older targets don't really have much playback buffer...
15:18:21olle-wpgevaerts: let me rephrase that
15:19:14*gevaerts has no problems with low roofs, it's those unpredictable roofs that you hit your head on
15:19:30olle-wpGodEater: yeah. one way or another, it seems to be working reasoably well on PCs, though i don'ät know how, i have to admit.
15:19:33GodEateryeah, those hydraulic ones that move up and down randomly are a bitch
15:19:58preglowolle-wp: anyway, to be able to continue to use our current concept of a file buffer, which really is the bulk of our memory, we'd have to reserve some area of memory for malloc. how large would this be?
15:20:03GodEaterPCs are a very different beast from an embedded target
15:20:13preglowolle-wp: the size of it would eat into the file buffer, which would mean more disk spinups
15:20:42olle-wpGodEater: sure, i just wandered offtopic thinking about how to avoid mem fragmentation.
15:20:49preglowolle-wp: embedded targets are far more specialized. one of the reasons for us shunning malloc is because we want the file buffer to be large, and the only way to get it as large as possible is to statically allocate it after everything else
15:20:52gevaertsolle-wp: the most obvious difference between rockbox and a generic PC is that in rockbox you get pitchforks for wasting 4k of ram
15:20:54olle-wppreglow: i know. i've read the wiki.
15:21:29preglowolle-wp: pc's don't do any such large allocation of the rest of the memory, because there's no need
15:21:59preglowif there's plenty of memory, and you don't have any specific use for it at any time, malloc() is nice
15:22:07preglowspecific use for _all_ of it...
15:22:16olle-wpgevaerts: not all targets are like that fwiw. i bet newer ipods have reasonable performamnce/capacity
15:22:18preglowbut when you need absolutely all of it all the time, malloc() is bad
15:22:57gevaertsolle-wp: it's the same code for all targets...
15:22:58olle-wppreglow: yep.
15:23:23olle-wpgevaerts: yeah. but let's speculate, what would be best for reasonably modern targets?
15:23:42preglowanyway, we've thought about this a fair deal (mainly because people persist in questioning it :P), and i doubt it's gonna change any time
15:23:56preglowi used to want it myself when i first joined the project, but now i too think malloc() is wrong for rockbox
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15:24:25preglowdynamic memory management can be good, but not the general malloc() way
15:24:30gevaertsolle-wp: a lot of the newer flash-basd players don't have much RAM these days, so that doesn't change
15:24:33olle-wppreglow: sure. you do just as you want, i'm not going to demand anything from you, and hail the rockbox. i'm asking out of plain curiousity.
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15:24:54preglowolle-wp: and you're free to do so, curiosity is good :)
15:24:56gevaertsolle-wp: you mentioned new potentials earlier. Any examples?
15:25:03olle-wpgevaerts: my e10 has, iirc, 32 mb of sdram of decent speed.
15:25:15olle-wpgevaerts: loading of several plugins at once?
15:25:52preglowdoesn't need malloc, just relocatable plugins
15:25:52*gevaerts is not sure that lack of malloc() is the blocker for that one
15:25:53amiconnolle-wp: That would require far more than just malloc
15:26:15preglowplugins are currently statically linked to run in one memory address
15:26:18preglowin/from
15:26:39olle-wpif i was to demand anything from you, i'd say: "port it to newer iriver/samsung targets, including but not limited to iriver e10. Tomorrow, or before the weekend!! Now make me proud!!"
15:26:56olle-wpamiconn: yeah.
15:27:10LambdaCalculus37And if you do that, we get to kick you around like a football. ;)
15:27:17olle-wp(C) (R) TM GoldenQuotes
15:28:53gevaertsHow much RAM does the m200 have?
15:29:07 Quit culture (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:29:12olle-wpthe new "potential" [sic] i'm reffering to is mainly the ability to use memory where it is needed, and only where it's needed, when rockbox and it's plugins grows beyond expectations.
15:30:08*LambdaCalculus37 goes to look at the TelechipsInfo page
15:30:22gevaertsThe big problem remains that when not using memory when it's not needed, you're not using it for buffering audio
15:31:13preglowi just remembered, rockbox hung during playback yesterday. it had been sitting still playing for two hours, then just hung :/ anyone else had that?
15:31:17LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Found this: ESMT M12S16161A 1M X 16 DRAM
15:31:18preglowh120, mp3
15:31:27gevaertsSo 2MB?
15:31:41olle-wpnot 16 MB?
15:31:46olle-wp*Mi
15:32:06gevaertsI'd gess 1M(bit) x 16
15:32:31GodEaterwouldn't shotofadds know the answer to this question already ?
15:32:43LambdaCalculus37The m200 page needs a very serious rearrangement.
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15:33:56gevaertsIndeed. It's a 16 Mbit chip
15:34:14*gevaerts doesn't want to waste memory on that
15:35:35olle-wpindeed. 16 Mibit is rather small.
15:35:58GodEaterand that seems to be the way targets are moving increasingly now that they use flash storage.
15:36:13preglowwhich sucks for rockbox :>
15:36:15olle-wpnow, i read that the (inactive) ifp port was moved to trunk, but i can't find it anywhere
15:36:30preglowolle-wp: it wasn't moved there, it's always been there
15:36:56olle-wppreglow: oh. i'll dig a bit in the source then.
15:37:09olle-wppreglow: it was on tomek's site at first.
15:37:24preglowoh, yeah, but it's always been in trunk here
15:37:35preglowbut it's pretty much abandoned now, i guess
15:37:44preglowand no wonder. a very hard target to port to, and only one guy
15:37:45LambdaCalculus37I think it mostly works, doesn't it?
15:37:53LambdaCalculus37Provided you compile from source.
15:38:31olle-wpLambdaCalculus37: so it seems accoriding to port wikipage
15:38:53olle-wpLambdaCalculus37: he said in mailing list there was sound
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16:14:19JdGordonis there a semi-reliable way of getting a play position (as a time) from a file offset?
16:15:08jac0b|wdid the charging get added to the gigabeat S build
16:15:38olle-wpJdGordon: i tend to think that'd be impossible with VBR at least
16:16:03JdGordonthats what I'm thinking
16:16:14gevaertsJdGordon: replay it until that file offset?
16:16:40LambdaCalculus37jac0b|w: Not yet.
16:16:46JdGordonyes, but I should have said fast also...
16:16:56JdGordontrackname: offset is good enough I guess
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16:17:38jac0b|woh b/c I thought my battery got charged a little bit being pluged in
16:19:12jac0b|wmy battery meter showed a little bit gone and now that it has been plugged in it shows a full battery
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16:48:55PaulJamhi, i was just wondering if it is normal that all the headers of the .lang files are printed during compiling.
16:49:08olle-wpPaulJam: it seems so.
16:49:17rasherPaulJam: It's normal since I messed up genlang. I'll get right on it now that I'm at a computer again
16:49:18olle-wpPaulJam: i wondered the same.
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16:49:53hashbangheyas
16:50:35hashbangI'm trying to get the voice stuff working on an iRiver H300 w/r18225
16:50:42PaulJami was already concerned that something is wrong with my PC, because while printing the header from the chinese.lang it was beeping like crazy in cygwin ;)
16:50:59rasherPaulJam: Oh dear, haha
16:51:22hashbangI've downloaded http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/pub/Main/VoiceFiles/english_vwkate_e200.voice http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/pub/Main/VoiceFiles/english_vwkate_4g.voice and http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/pub/Main/VoiceFiles/american-english_ibmtts_20070706.zip none of those seem to work
16:51:26hashbangany clues?
16:51:45LinusNthose are old as hell
16:52:00olle-wpPaulJam: heh, i didn't see the chinese header. at least my console app didn't get messed up
16:52:04hashbangLinusN: those are what's linked to from the twiki :-(
16:52:10LinusNyou need to either generate them yourself or download the daily built voices
16:52:40LambdaCalculus37The new voices are here: http://www.rockbox.org/voices/h300-20080812-english.zip
16:52:41LinusNhashbang: http://www.rockbox.org/daily.shtml
16:53:04rasherPaulJam: Fixed
16:53:17PaulJamthat was fast. thank you
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16:53:30rasherWell, it was a very easy fix
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16:55:51hashbangLinusN: aha! gotcha! ta!
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16:56:25olle-wpoh dear.
16:56:26olle-wpsomepath/arm-elf/lib/gcc/arm-elf/4.0.3/../../../../arm-elf/bin/ld: region PLUGIN_RAM is full (somepath/build/apps/codecs/sid.elf section .bss)
16:56:54olle-wpi wonder if anyone have tried to build rb for ifp lately
16:58:53*n1s curses Tex's unhelpful error messages...
16:59:11hashbangdoes Rockbox on the H300 always use the hardware MAS for playing MP3s? Or do certain options move decoding onto the Coldfire CPU?
16:59:31n1shashbang: h300 has no MAS it always uses the cpu
16:59:31rasherolle-wp: likely not
16:59:58LambdaCalculus37hashbang: The only players with MAS chips are the Archos players.
17:00
17:02:36hashbangn1s: LambdaCalculus37: ah, I mean the Philips UDA1380TT then, in that case.
17:03:07n1sthe uda is a dac, it does no decoding, just digital -> analouge
17:03:21hashbangn1s: the datasheet says it does MP3
17:04:28hashbangn1s: my understanding is that this is why battery life when playing Oggs with the standard firmware is lower than when playing MP3s
17:04:45hashbangn17ikh|Lappy: Oggs being decoded on the Coldfire CPU, MP3s being passed to the UDA1380
17:05:00hashbangn17ikh|Lappy: sorry, meant n1s
17:06:52n1shashbang: the dac can not decode mp3, the reason for the crappy battery life in the OF with vorbis is likely because they didn't optimize their implementation very much
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17:07:26rasherAlso, their mp3 codec is pretty darn efficient, so comparatively, vorbis scores low
17:07:31n1swhile they were probably using the very fast mp3 decoder from freescale
17:08:18n1sI'd guess rockbox beats the OF with quite a margin in batterytime playing vorbis
17:08:48hashbangn1s: aha, gotcha
17:09:36hashbangand I see from reading the datasheet that bass/treble boost are UDA1380 hardware features. Everything else is done in software on the CPU.
17:09:41hashbangright?
17:09:58olle-wpat last, i took the time to actually run rockbox, the port to PC.
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17:10:15olle-wpwhat can i say, well, if i could use this on my mp3, i'd be more than happy.
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17:11:07olle-wpamazing work.
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17:11:58olle-wpbut there seems to be a god damned segfault in the text line editing view. i'll see what i can do.
17:12:13wpyhmcuelenaere: I've finished hxf2ihfs
17:12:21mcuelenaerewpyh: cool
17:12:34mcuelenaereI'm currently looking into the virtualmips simulator
17:12:34n1solle-wp: patches are always welcome :)
17:12:49*wpyh never heard of virtualmips :p
17:13:52olle-wpn1s: sure, i know. this would be the first time i patched software i'm still not able to run.
17:13:58wpyhmcuelenaere: I also saw your (answered) question about why I disabled the usb_set_configuration()... bertrik guessed right :)
17:14:18wpyhI'm not familiar with USB, so I try to be as close to the original software as possible
17:14:29mcuelenaerehmmm weird, I tried in Ubuntu (JeOS) and it worked with the call enabled
17:14:55mcuelenaerealthough bertrik is right and Linux did the usb_set_configuration() out of it's own
17:15:12mcuelenaereeh perhaps that's no good english
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17:15:41GodEateranyone seen this ? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=18107.0 ?
17:16:11*LambdaCalculus37 thinks we now need a SillyQuotes page :P
17:16:25wpyhhm...
17:16:47mcuelenaerewell I can still disable it, it isn't necessary
17:16:54mcuelenaereif it doesn't work for you..
17:17:03olle-wpLambdaCalculus37: GoldenQuotes is more than enough silly
17:17:19LambdaCalculus37:)
17:17:30mcuelenaerewpyh: anyway, I'll need to commit your HXF2IHFS app so I'll commit the fix with it together
17:18:02wpyhmcuelenaere: I haven't tried with the call enabled, but if it's possible to check with usb_get_configuration(), then I think we should check (and not configure the device twice)
17:18:19mcuelenaereAFAIK libusb doesn't provide usb_get_configuration() ..
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17:19:50wpyhmcuelenaere: hxf2ihfs.c is here: http://pastebin.ca/1168138 (it's not formatted like the rest of Rockbox yet, but we can fix the whitespace later :) )
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17:25:26wpyhmcuelenaere: once we get developers with vx757 and vx777 dap's, I think we should add "device profiles" to usbtool
17:26:02mcuelenaerewpyh: yes perhaps, but currently we only have a vx767 and a vx747 (and a potential vx89?)
17:26:26mcuelenaereand I only have information from you and me who tested the device (+ someone else with a vx747)
17:26:52wpyhhm...
17:27:02wpyhwho's got the vx989 (or vx898?)
17:27:31wpyhwell then, me buying the vx767 wasn't a bad choice :D at least we know that several devices are different
17:27:32toffe82I repaired the broken S60 I received and it is working, the only thing is that there is 10 dead pixels on the top left corner, but everythingelse is working fine
17:27:43toffe82If somebody is interested, it is 120$ shipping include anywhere, it is a white case with a black cross, I will include the original black case but it was no so nice looking.
17:27:59toffe82>It comes with the power supply too
17:29:37 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
17:29:38mcuelenaerewpyh: eh someone at mp4nation who showed some interest in Rockbox
17:29:42mcuelenaerelemme check
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17:30:50mcuelenaerewpyh: http://mp4nation.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=34789#p34789
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17:37:48wpyhmcuelenaere: ok, so at least a developer from a company (pasen) seems interested... did he contact you?
17:38:05mcuelenaerewpyh: yes, I talked with him several times
17:38:08mcuelenaerebrb
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17:41:13mcuelenaerewpyh: but in the end, he couldn't provide much info
17:41:23mcuelenaeremost of my last talk with him is in the rockbox forums
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17:44:38n1sGodEater: I really wonder how that could be "worthwhile" ... ?
17:45:45wpyhhm... ok
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17:46:29mcuelenaerewpyh: he confirmed the jz4732 is a jz4740
17:46:42mcuelenaerebecause he contacted ingenic about it
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17:50:47wpyhhm.. ok
17:50:55wpyhgreat
17:50:58wpyhso what's the difference?
18:00
18:01:09mcuelenaerethe 4732 is just the same as the 4740, but the first is delivered outside china while the latter not
18:01:13wpyhmcuelenaere: is it just the packaging?
18:01:16 Quit hashbang ("Client exiting")
18:01:18wpyhhm...
18:01:36wpyhI see, maybe some patent issues or the like :D
18:01:57mcuelenaerewpyh: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17245.msg131428#msg131428
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18:09:19mcuelenaerewpyh: it seems some other open source project is using the jz4740, although they don't have any code yet AFAICS: http://openjz.googlepages.com/
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18:09:42wpyhmcuelenaere: thanks
18:09:47wpyhbut I have to go now
18:10:17mcuelenaerek
18:10:23wpyhI hope I'll have more time while waiting at the airport tomorrow :)
18:10:38mcuelenaere:)
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18:11:01mcuelenaereI'll try mailing the virtualmips author in the mean time
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18:11:08wpyh:)
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18:51:08mcuelenaerewpyh (logs): did you base your HXF2IHFS on reverse engineering or did you make it yourself?
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19:58:47DivClassDrat, there's no stable support for the Cowon D2
19:59:12LambdaCalculus37Because the port isn't completed yet.
19:59:57DivClass:\ Oh well. I can wait, I haven't purchased the Cowon yet.
20:00
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20:05:18LambdaCalculus37rasher: Never mind... upon looking at a patch for the French translation, I noticed that many of the strings I didn't touch are actually listed as "depreciated" now.
20:06:42rasherLambdaCalculus37: I'm not sure the french translation should be touched - there's a patch in the tracker, and the maintainer claims to be working on it
20:07:07olle-wpone thing about the compiled language files bothers me
20:07:38olle-wpwhen it has been loaded into memory (i suppose it is), it must be searched sequentially
20:07:58olle-wpthere are no offsets stored that allows for skipping to the next phrase
20:08:01LambdaCalculus37rasher: FS #9267 (ignore the French patch, then).
20:08:07olle-wpcouldn't that be improved?
20:10:20*rasher directs olle-wp at Bagder
20:10:24n1solle-wp: it is onöy searched when it is loaded
20:10:29n1ss/ö/l
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20:11:14olle-wpn1s: ok. so when it's read, the whole file is read, one char at a time?
20:11:22olle-wpactually, that makes perfect sense.
20:12:14n1ssee apps/language.c lang_load() and lang_init() they are quite easy to read
20:13:14n1sbasically we have an array of pointers to the strings that are redirected to the correct addresses when a new language is loaded
20:13:17olle-wpalso, the segfault was nothing. it was the beep sound that couldn't be played on my machine with forever broken ALSA, and SDL crashed, or uisimulator crashed SDL.
20:13:36olle-wpso it's a hardware dependent simulator crash ;)
20:14:06n1sah, yes it is known to crash if it cannot play audio :)
20:14:37midgeyfor anyone interested, i now have a single lang file per language. I've also fixed splashes (hurray!). Unfortunately, I've broken language loading and I'm going to need some makefile help after I've fixed the loading issue.
20:14:41olle-wpn1s: then it would maybe make sense to make it skip through after all. i'll take a look.
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20:18:07midgeyalso, why were so many user fields removed from japanese.lang in the r18257? it's not a big deal right now, but if/when my work gets committed to trunk, that field will be required (without trailing spaces)
20:18:18olle-wpthat is slowish. if there's no convincing reason for this, i'm a bit disappointed. −−>ptr += strlen((char *)ptr) + 1
20:19:27n1solle-wp: it is simple and only done once while starting or when changing language
20:19:38midgeyare you suggesting the string lengths be stored by genlang?
20:19:51olle-wpmidgey: i think that is what i am suggesting, yeah
20:20:23olle-wpmidgey: but i'd be happy to be proved wrong.
20:20:35n1smidgey: congratz on the progress! also most translations that are not maintained by rockbox devs are in various chaotic states...
20:21:33midgeyn1s: i've fixed all user fields on every lang in my patch, but now it's a whopping 5 MiB :)
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20:22:02bluebrotherpetur: ping
20:23:06olle-wpmidgey: so, what is your response? you seemed so skeptical.
20:24:01rashermidgey: oops, didn't notice that
20:24:09midgeyolle-wp: i think you'll end up using more memory. since the load is done so infrequently i'm skeptical if the extra memory use is worth the speed increase
20:24:16rashermidgey: Why be strict about whitespace for the user: field though?
20:25:35peturbluebrother: pong
20:25:38midgeyrasher: i user a hash in genlang to convert the user field to a number. so "core" = 1, but "core " is unrecognized.
20:25:52rashermidgey: Why not strip on read?
20:26:03midgeyit might be possible to trim the whitespace before the hash, i'm not too familiar with perl
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20:27:17midgeyrasher: stripping on read will probably work, i'll look into it
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20:27:39rasherThe last thing we need is to introduce more possible errors for language files
20:27:51midgeytrue :)
20:27:59midgeyis it possible to ignore a directory when using "svn diff"
20:28:10rasherOf course, this will all go away with XML language files!!!1!
20:28:28midgeyi'd like to split my patch into code changes and language changes
20:29:30rasherYou could do svn diff apps/lang/; and then svn diff with a clean apps/lang/ directory
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20:30:18midgeythat's the only solution i've thought of. it seems there should be something a bit more elegant....
20:30:31rashersvn help diff doesn't reveal anything obvious
20:31:13olle-wpmidgey: i was going to agree with you, but now i think about it, i don't think that's an issue. we could use the place for the terminating null character to store the length. that way we still use 3 bytes per phrase plus the phrase itself.
20:32:33midgeyolle-wp: that makes sense. we await the patch :)
20:32:34olle-wpmidgey: and if the length exceeds some custom max, say 254, we just set it to 255 and iterate
20:32:41olle-wpmidgey: yey! ;)
20:33:00olle-wpmidgey: or we mix together the ID and the length in a bit field soup
20:33:14olle-wpmidgey: noone needs 2^16 phrases
20:33:58n1swe can always bump the format when we get to 2^16 +1 :)
20:34:08midgeywith how many features rockbox gets, 2^16 phrases wouldn't surprise me
20:34:52rashermidgey: the amount of strings isn't growing as fast as it once did
20:35:07rashersee: rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/graphs/turkce.png">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/graphs/turkce.png
20:35:44midgeyfancy
20:35:52olle-wpmidgey et al: do plugins use lang/lng files?
20:36:13midgeythey hopefully will after my gsoc is completed
20:36:35rasherI still don't understand what you want to achieve, olle-wp?
20:37:09rasherLoading a language file is extremely time-uncritical
20:37:23rasherThe splash shown on completion is shown for ten times as long as the loading takes..
20:37:39rasher(that's a guess, but I expect it to be something like that)
20:38:32Learrasher: I agree. Why optimize if it isn't a problem?
20:39:49olle-wpmidgey: help me. i can see the flaming torches getting closer.
20:40:52midgeythey aren't stopping you from writing up a patch, they just don't think it's worth the work
20:41:46rasherThis is a process that's done *at most* a handful of times during use, and the user never notices the time he has to wait. I think adding code and complexity to speed it up would be silly and wasteful
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20:44:56olle-wprasher: the complexity would be in genlang. the lower cost CPU-wise might justify the (very little) added complexity in the lang loader
20:45:04amiconnolle-wp: The ptr += strlen((char *)ptr) + 1 is done for the builtin language only, on startup
20:45:21amiconnIt saves several KB on binsize (the array of pointers)
20:45:38amiconnAnd it's not slow
20:46:00rasherolle-wp: CPU time is not the only consideration when optimising. Binsize and complexity are often more important
20:46:23rasherDepending on which area we're talking about of course. Codecs optimise heavily for cpu time
20:46:31olle-wpamiconn: both yes and no. it's done each time a lang is loaded, before the new translated strs are put to the array IIRC
20:46:52amiconnYes, because strings not contained in the .lng file should be english
20:47:39amiconnBut this little extra cpu time (a few ms at max. not noticeable by the user) is worth using
20:48:11 Quit PaulJam (".")
20:48:25amiconnIirc it saved ~4KB back when I implemented this, and that's a significant amount. We have targets where binsize is really important, even more than ram usage
20:49:01amiconnNowadays we have more .lng strings, so the savings from this are even higher
20:49:08olle-wpamiconn: sorry if i'm slow, what saved 4 KB?
20:50:13amiconnCalculating the pointers to the builtin strings dynamically instead of keeping the whole pointer array (const data)
20:50:28olle-wpi'm talking about iterations first through the builtin lang, and later through the lang file. it's a short time, yeah, but i don't see the downside of optimizing as proposed. the added rb code is extremely small.
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20:52:02cricketsi have a couple questions about preparing an ipod for rockbox
20:52:25rasherolle-wp: But what do you gain?
20:52:42rasherYou add code, and gain essentially nothing?
20:52:55amiconnolle-wp: I can't find what you actually suggested
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20:53:58pixelmacrickets: just ask
20:54:00cricketsif this ipod was used on a different windows PC is there anything i have to do before i install rockbox? like format it or anything
20:54:33LambdaCalculus37The iPod needs to be FAT32 formatted.
20:54:34amiconnIf you store the string lengths in the .lng, that means they are also contained in the built-in language
20:54:41LambdaCalculus37And what model iPod?
20:54:44crickets4th gen
20:54:49cricketsgrayscale
20:55:04LambdaCalculus37Here, use this: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxUtility
20:55:15amiconnAnd that's certainly more than using strlen()
20:55:20LambdaCalculus37And here's the manual: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipod4gray/rockbox-build.html
20:55:23cricketsi just installed a new battery so it's charging on my xbox right now, i'm just starting to find out what i'm doing when i plug it in
20:55:57cricketsdoes that utility let me format it too
20:56:10bertrikwasn't jhMikeS working on cleaning up powermanagement.c?
20:56:20LambdaCalculus37No, it just installs Rockbox for you.
20:56:24olle-wpamiconn: yeah. the Nul chars both in the builtin, and the .lng files, could be replaced with the length of the upcoming phrase, so that the loader doesn't have to iterate. that's what i proposed.
20:56:44amiconn1 byte isn't enough for all phrases
20:57:24olle-wpamiconn: i know. did you just join or somethg? then we set a max length at 255 and iterate if the value is set to 255.
20:57:35amiconnI'm pretty sure the iteration takes less than 10ms on any swcodec target, and during standard use, is done once per session (on startup)
20:57:42 Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection)
20:58:00amiconnolle-wp: How do you iterate if the null byte isn't there anymore?
20:58:10cricketsso i should plug it in and right click and format like it was a regular drive?
20:58:53n1scrickets: if you have been using it with windows there is no need to _re_format it
20:58:53olle-wpamiconn: then i guess you add the null again. good complicating point, argh. are you sure it's only done once? isn't it done an additional time at startup if you have another language?
20:59:58cricketsi was just checking since it was used on a different PC and i still want to get rid of all the music on it
21:00
21:00:26amiconnIt is done once at startup, and whenever you change laguage. But how often does that happen during normal use?
21:00:46n1scrickets: if you just reformat the partition you should be fine but do not repartition it
21:01:06n1sbut you could just delete all the stuff on it
21:01:10amiconnAnd 10ms really isn't worth the discussion. Besides, reading the length and doing the maths also takes its time (although probably a bit less than using strlen())
21:01:33cricketsthat sounds easier n1s haha
21:02:03cricketswhat do i need to do that
21:02:47olle-wpcrickets: just format it. or delete all the visible and hidden and extra-hidden files on it.
21:03:35cricketsalright, thanks for your help guys, i'll be back if something goes horribly wrong
21:04:44 Quit crickets ("I LEFT LOL")
21:05:01amiconnolle-wp: Btw, you can't leave out the null byte, or you would waste ram
21:05:27amiconnYou would then have to copy all the strings into another buffer, adding the trailing null byte
21:05:42amiconnC wants its strings null terminated
21:05:59amiconnAnd this copying would probably be even slower than iterating over the strings using strlen()
21:06:26 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
21:07:46olle-wpamiconn: yeah. if that's true, it's not an option to do this change.
21:08:33olle-wpamiconn: using the null char might be a dead end indeed.
21:08:45UncleRemusCan the database build go into a never-ending loop? Is it a known problem?
21:09:31olle-wpi want ext2, so i can fall into a recursive loop :)
21:09:43n1samiconn: couldn't you copy everything into one buffer like now and replace the byte storing the length of the string with null once you have adjusted a pointer to point to the string?
21:10:25amiconnperhaps, but why complicate things?
21:10:34UncleRemusCurrently it says over 32000 songs and counting, but I'm quite sure I don't have that many songs on my iPod
21:10:39n1sUncleRemus: it can do that if there are no music files present, and in some cases a metadata reader might choke on a tag and hang...
21:10:43olle-wpn1s: great.
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21:11:28n1samiconn: i don't think it's a good idea, just wanted to know if it's possible :)
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21:12:30n1sUncleRemus: do you have a trash folder on it or some non-music files with extensions of music files or anything else weird like that?
21:12:46 Join jfc [0] (n=john@dpc691978010.direcpc.com)
21:13:26UncleRemusn1s: I don't think so, it is an iPod and I followed the installation instructions.
21:14:02n1sUncleRemus: if you have transferred songs with itunes, the database will pick them up too
21:14:15UncleRemusI put all my artist in the root folder in the suggested structure that is present on the rockbox manual page
21:14:43n1snothing transferred with itunes on there then?
21:14:50 Join Reptile211 [0] (n=chatzill@host-216-66-248-9.static.linkline.com)
21:15:09Reptile211NOTD
21:15:16Reptile211hello people
21:15:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:16:22UncleRemusActually, all the songs are transferred with gnupod and then, after installing rockbox, I moved them to /Artist/Album/songs with musicbrainz picard tool.
21:16:51Reptile211having trouble with ipod mini can anyone help
21:17:40n1sUncleRemus: can you check if there are still files present in the hidden itunes folder on the ipod, it's called something like "ipod_control"
21:17:58bluebrotherReptile211: not if you don't ask the actual question
21:18:17UncleRemusn1s: I removed that one.
21:18:22Reptile211well ok
21:18:59Reptile211my ipod is showing a folder icon and then it resets reads on the screen do not disconnect
21:19:07n1sUncleRemus: then I am out of ideas... :(
21:19:08Reptile211and keeps looping thought the same thing
21:19:19Reptile211i have tried to restore it
21:19:36Reptile211but seems not to be working changed out battery and no luck
21:19:54bluebrothertry to put it into emergency disc mode.
21:19:58UncleRemusn1s: Thanks for your help anyway! I assume you can listen and do everything also from File menu, right?
21:20:21bluebrotherReset the Ipod by pressing Menu + Select for several seconds until the Ipod reboots. Then press and hold Play + Select.
21:20:23Reptile211by pressing the menu and select buttons?
21:20:53bluebrotherthe Ipod will enter emergency disc mode. You can then connect it to the PC and also charge it. Maybe it's a good idea to charge it first for quite a while
21:20:58Reptile211i have not tried the play select yet
21:21:04n1sUncleRemus: yes, the file menu is working fine for listening, creating playlists etc...
21:21:10bluebrotherkeep in mind that you need to reset the Ipod to leave emergency disc mode
21:23:24Reptile211so pressing and hold Play + Select will take me into emergency disk mode
21:24:38bluebrotheryes, but only during the bootup, i.e. you need to do this right when the Ipod reboots
21:25:08Reptile211got ya
21:25:31 Quit amiconn (" reboot")
21:25:36Reptile211and in emergency disk mode what are my options from there?
21:26:22bluebrotherwell, it's disc mode. You can access the player, and you should be able to restore it. Charging also works, so this is an option if you have the impression you're low on battery
21:26:38bluebrotheras emergency disc mode has to be terminated by a reset you won't get reboots.
21:27:15Reptile211umm ok
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21:35:04Reptile211has anyone tried replacing the ipod microdrive with a flashdrive?
21:36:22LambdaCalculus37Yes, plenty of times. Check this page out: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CFModGuide
21:37:07Reptile211any particular type of card that has to be used
21:37:40LambdaCalculus37As long as the card conforms to TrueIDE spec.
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21:42:39Reptile211trueIDE???
21:43:19 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
21:46:23 Quit Lambduh (Connection timed out)
21:46:48LambdaCalculus37http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompactFlash
21:47:21 Join Miyavix3 [0] (n=miyavix3@c-67-175-94-113.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
21:47:48Miyavix3Is anyone here?
21:48:24LambdaCalculus37There are 142 people here.
21:48:35Miyavix3Let me revise that
21:48:49Miyavix3How many, out of the 142 people in this room, are not AFK?
21:49:06olle-wpi'm here
21:49:06Miyavix3Well seeing how you're here
21:49:11Miyavix3yay :D
21:49:13gevaertsThat's an off-topic question ;) Please only on-topic ones...
21:49:18Miyavix3.-.
21:49:22Miyavix3Sarcastic jerks
21:49:23reacocardgood question. A better one would be to just ask you question and see if people can answer :)
21:49:25Miyavix3Ok topic question
21:49:38Miyavix3How's the current battery life of rockbox on an iPod?
21:49:57Miyavix3i installed it on mine a while ago (about a year) and I would go from full to empty in the course of a day
21:50:22Reptile211well its about the same then
21:50:27Miyavix3Oh =\
21:50:31reacocardhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BatteryRuntime
21:50:49Reptile211cause the batter only last about 8 hours anyway
21:50:53gevaertsMiyavix3: there were serious improvements between november and march.
21:51:05LambdaCalculus37Reptile211: Don't give false information.
21:51:15LambdaCalculus37Not every iPod suffers from bad battery life.
21:51:28Reptile211ok well mine dose
21:51:57Miyavix3Hmm
21:51:58 Join coatman__ [0] (i=coatman@ppp-70-246-144-79.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net)
21:52:00Reptile211and its the mini we're talking about right
21:52:11Miyavix3I'm talking about the 5g 80GB
21:52:23LambdaCalculus37Except about 12 hours of life on the iPod video nowadays.
21:53:03Miyavix3'Cause usually I'd have to charge my iPod about once or twice a week
21:53:08Miyavix3but with rockbox on there, it was every day
21:53:29Miyavix3dudes in the other channel said they blamed pearl, lol
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21:54:34gevaertsThe only way to be sure is to try it again, with your player, and your listening habits, but it will be a lot better now
21:54:41mcuelenaeredomonoky, bluebrother: is the Windows RButility binary built on a Windows or Linux machine?
21:55:00 Quit Reptile211 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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21:56:39Reptile211whats the topic again
21:56:50mcuelenaereReptile211: /topic
21:57:04mcuelenaerewoops that doesn' work
21:57:29mcuelenaereReptile211: /topic #rockbox
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22:00
22:00:28 Quit Zom (Operation timed out)
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22:03:29bluebrothermcuelenaere: the windows binary is built on w2k
22:03:40 Part Miyavix3
22:03:51mcuelenaerebluebrother: with <4.4.1 I suppose..
22:05:31bluebrothercurrently 4.4.0, as 4.4.1 came out later (and I haven't found the time upgrading −− it's always a complete recompile of Qt to get the static libraries)
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22:20:47bertrikcodecs/mpa.c and plugins/mpegplayer/alloc.c implement an abort function but I can't find any use of it. I'd like to remove it. Is there any reason they exist?
22:21:45 Quit BiptoN (Client Quit)
22:23:30kugelbertrik: Why do you hesitate about committing your battery bench patch?
22:25:15bertrikkugel, I'm not sure if everybody would agree with the new battery bench
22:26:23bertrikPersonally I think it's definitely an improvement over the old one because it's much clearer and simpler (and even less code)
22:26:36kugelSo, why should one not agree?
22:27:23stu8ballPerhaps it contains a goto. :p
22:27:27bertrikI think it hasn't been tested so much with disk-based targets yet
22:27:29kugel;P
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22:27:54kugelstu8ball: That'd be evil, indeed :)
22:29:00kugelbertrik: I say, just commit, then it'll be tested enough
22:29:01Learbertrik: If the codec libs don't need abort(), I don't see why it couldn't be removed.
22:29:12*gevaerts would like stu8ball to explain why gotos are bad, but that would be OT
22:29:33kugelbertrik: I'd like to get that committed before 3.0, since it makes battery_bench work again on e200
22:30:08*bluebrother waits for someone to say "Misra"
22:30:12bertrikOne potentially controversial thing is that the it forces a flush to disk when the plugin is exited, even when that happened because of dangerously low battery voltage.
22:30:21gevaertsIs battery_bench really that important in relation to 3.0? I would see it mostly as a development tool
22:30:36*Lear just found some changes for mono AAC files in his local tree. Wonder if they should be committed...
22:31:09bluebrotherIMO battery_bench is anything but important ...
22:31:32bertriknice to hear after putting some effort in it ...
22:32:00*gevaerts pats bertrik on the back. It's important, but in my opinion not really for end users
22:32:02kugelbertrik: I think it's very important.
22:34:22bluebrotherbertrik: didn't want to turn you down ...
22:35:59bluebrotherbut I don't consider plugins as important in general. Rockbox does its main purpose just fine without them
22:36:30*gevaerts mostly agrees
22:36:58gevaertsThat's actually what bothered me most about this number of open directories thing a few days ago. 16k extra _for disktidy_ ?
22:37:35bluebrotheryep, my thoughts were similar. Now it's ~8ki extra for disktidy. Still ...
22:37:51*petur is puzzled by 9248 - going back a year shows the same issue :(
22:38:01gevaertsIndeed. Why not _decreasing_ the number, to make the real bug get fixed faster?
22:38:44bluebrotherinteresting approach. Indeed, why not?
22:38:53 Quit petur ("*plop*")
22:39:16gevaertsMaybe not just before 3.0 though...
22:39:27*gevaerts chickens out
22:39:35bluebrotherthere will be a 3.1 :)
22:40:03gevaertsI was thinking like five minutes after the 3.0 release :)
22:40:18bluebrotherwell, better than for 4.0
22:42:12rasherThe translation problem-report page should now notify of translations that set strings to "" or none, even where english specifies a value. I don't think anything caught this previously, so check your favourite translation!
22:42:40rasherrasher.dk/rockbox/translate/problems.php?lang=$langfilename">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/problems.php?lang=$langfilename (without .lang)
22:43:29rasherOops, looks like I might have broken the Russian translation...
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22:43:55 Part raphi
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22:45:16rasherAh no, I'm off the hook.
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22:45:36Bagderthe sansa updater windows program actually downloads 7zip files
22:45:39 Join coatman [0] (i=coatman@ppp-70-246-144-79.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net)
22:46:07bluebrotherI tried that windows program once and really disliked it
22:46:18gevaertsrasher.dk/rockbox/translate/problems.php?lang=english">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/problems.php?lang=english seems to have lots of "English and translation are the same" warning :)
22:47:40Bagderbluebrother: someone snooped on its traffic and downloaded 24 fresh sansa e200v2 firmwares for my v2 page...
22:47:55bluebrotheroh, nice
22:48:23rashergevaerts: Fixed.
22:48:37 Quit Mathiasdm ("Invisible Internet Project: http://www.i2p2.de")
22:49:21gevaertsrasher: you mean worked around ;)
22:51:17pixelmarasher: how often will the page be updated?
22:51:37pixelma(just curious)
22:51:47rasherpixelma: Every hour
22:52:04rasherExcept the graphs, which will be "whenever I get around to it"
22:53:27pixelmanice one :)
22:53:36 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]")
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23:00
23:01:55bluebrotheranyone interested in trying current rbutil with my bootloader rework? http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uhcn/rockbox/rbutil/rbutilqt.7z
23:02:47bluebrothergoing to leave now as I've got a rather heavy headache tonight... back tomorrow.
23:03:18 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
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23:07:38 Join kraut [0] (i=kraut@blackhole.packetloss.biz)
23:07:44krauthi
23:07:55krautare questions concerning the original sansa-firmware welcome here?
23:07:59 Quit bertrik (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:08:02krauti've got a problem and don't know where to get help.
23:08:29gevaertsNo, sorry
23:09:01krautdamn it
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23:09:11krautrockbox isn't available for me, because it's a v2
23:12:10 Part kraut
23:14:37Bagderhttp://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/v2fw.html
23:14:56Bagdermore than 20 new images added
23:15:05SoapWhoever David Kauffman is, thank you for fixing the Gigabeat WPS page - removing all those false WikiWords.
23:15:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:16:17rasherSomeone should fix UnicodeGuide, to not be in Win1251, but I call not-itsies
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23:30:36stephenccpabs:
23:30:39stephenccsoap
23:30:48Soap?
23:31:02stephencchey can I take something out of the graveyard or do you have to do it ?
23:31:10stephenccit's been given a license
23:31:14 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
23:31:26stephenccthe pulse theme by markcoleman
23:32:19SoapI would prefer the author do it... The wiki page says nothing about _Soap_ having any special powers when it comes to this. I just have been the citizen doing it.
23:32:55stephenccah right. I have a pm from him asking could I do it coz he has no interest in updating it
23:33:32stephencci pmed him to add a license
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23:35:13SoapIt would be really nice, clearcut, and simple if the original author would be the one to make the wiki modification to at least indicate licensing.
23:35:50SoapI received a PM from Jesus Christ yesterday telling me I am the rightful king of the world...
23:36:03gevaertsYou too?
23:36:10stephenccI see your point but he added the license already.
23:36:23Soapif he already did that - by all means move it.
23:36:52stephenccok, just wasn't sure on the guidelines of moving from teh graveyard.
23:36:53SoapI hope he added the license to the .cfg/,wps as well - not a forced expectation, but an expectation nonetheless.
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23:37:18stephenccif not I could add one ? I think he just added it to the wiki
23:37:32stephencci have the updated theme on my machine already
23:38:41Soapas long as the comments make clear who wrote it, who originally licensed it, the license, who edited it (when), yadda yadda yadda it's all cool I think.
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23:39:38stephenccok thanks. p.s. i updated the nano themes the other day
23:40:09SoapIt would be nice if the license was explicit in its claim that the entire work was <license>. I'm not sure it makes a legal difference, but it sure is reassuring to have the author's explicit words that the images are either their own creation or otherwise allowed to be released under the license they are claiming.
23:40:56 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
23:41:31stephencchmm he doesn't say that
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23:42:25olle-wpnight
23:42:35olle-wpsleep(8)
23:43:00 Quit olle-wp (Remote closed the connection)
23:43:36Bagder8 seconds?
23:44:22gevaertsMaybe a buggy RTC
23:44:35LambdaCalculus378 seconds?
23:44:44*LambdaCalculus37 goes to read logs
23:46:06LambdaCalculus37Soap: David Kauffman is BdN3504 on the forums.
23:48:27Soapstephencc, oh well. It is still ok to put it in the gallery and out of the graveyard.
23:48:49stephencccheers jsut doign it now
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23:55:51virtuoso015hello, some "unbricking" help needed
23:55:52 Quit crope` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:56:04virtuoso015have a sansa e260 4gb
23:56:26virtuoso015and its just not updating the firmware
23:56:40virtuoso015have use e200tool ... but to no avail
23:56:45virtuoso015any help ??
23:57:51LambdaCalculus37What firmware version?
23:58:04virtuoso0151.02.18
23:58:29virtuoso015i have tried all possible ways in both recovery and manufacture modes
23:58:49virtuoso015have also tried writing to the memory using e200tool
23:59:00virtuoso015again, after a restart , its back to the same thing

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