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#rockbox log for 2008-08-13

00:00:14virtuoso015it can go to the recovery mode
00:00:22virtuoso015thats all
00:00:33virtuoso015in normal, it says load image failed
00:00:37virtuoso015goto recovery mode
00:00:57virtuoso015same thing, means the same old data
00:01:18virtuoso015i have tried overwriting the firmware
00:01:23virtuoso015and bootloader
00:01:28virtuoso015but it doesnt change
00:01:48gevaertsDid you unmount/eject/whatever the recovery filesystem properly?
00:02:10virtuoso015i havent touched it
00:02:19virtuoso015but i had tried to upgrade
00:02:28virtuoso015and the next thing i see
00:02:38virtuoso015there is version.txt
00:02:44virtuoso015with incomplete data
00:03:01stripwaxvirtuoso015 - can you please press Enter less frequently? It makes it very hard to read actually
00:03:04virtuoso015and whatever i put in there (BL, firmware, .fmt file)
00:04:00gevaertsWhat operating system are you using?
00:04:10virtuoso015its lost and the player does not retain it or use it. So, right now, i am just left with a bricked phone
00:04:18virtuoso015i use ubuntu 8.04
00:04:44virtuoso015sorry, bricked player
00:04:58 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
00:05:00 Quit DerDome ("Leaving.")
00:05:04gevaertsOK, so after you copied those files to the recovery drive, did you properly unmount before unplugging?
00:05:18virtuoso015yes, i did
00:06:22 Quit coatman ("See You All Later")
00:06:41gevaertsAfter that, did anything interesting show on the sansa's screen?
00:07:06virtuoso015it just said formatting and then restarted
00:07:58virtuoso015Now, all it shows is the boot splash screen , followed by the error message" load main image failed , goto recovery mode"
00:08:14gevaertsOK. Have you already tried only the bootloader and firmware, not the .fmt file?
00:08:45virtuoso015i have tried every possible combination mentioned in the unbricking page at the rockbox wiki
00:08:48bertrikWhen I changed OFs on my sansa e260, it was enough to put just the main firmware on it
00:08:50virtuoso015but no help
00:09:26virtuoso015i started with just the firmware , then i did both firmware and .fmt , finally , i did all three
00:09:26*gevaerts doesn't have an e200 himself, so he leaves this to people who know more about it
00:09:36 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:09:36bertrikvirtuoso015, what's the exact name of your .mi4 file?
00:11:04bertrikok, I think that's correct
00:12:08virtuoso015bertrik, have u used the e200tool ?
00:12:55 Quit snoh (Remote closed the connection)
00:13:37virtuoso015Does the read and write functions in the e200tool access the RAM or the NAND ?
00:13:44bertrikvirtuoso015, no I've never used it
00:14:47bertrikIIRC, the expected behaviour is that the recovery mode writes the firmware to flash as soon as you unmount the device, then reboots itself
00:16:08 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (" ajax IRC Client")
00:16:08virtuoso015yes, but in my case, when i disconnect the usb cable, it just gives a message saying cable is disconnected and is stuck there. I have to perform forced power down to shut it off
00:18:20bertrikthis is just a guess, but can you try renaming the pp5022.mi4 file to firmware.mi4?
00:18:30virtuoso015i did that also
00:18:57virtuoso015no use, i read somewhere its meant to be for the hebrew version. Mine is a US version
00:19:13n1svirtuoso015: did you wait a while before force rebooting?
00:19:22 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00:19:25*mcuelenaere thinks the WPS editor proxy source is a bit of a mess atm
00:19:43virtuoso015yes, yesterday, i left it for a whole 6 hrs... no use
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00:24:48bertrikvirtuoso015, I'm running out of ideas, I've never changed the OF under Linux, always under windows, so maybe that something to try
00:25:24virtuoso015hmmm... yes, will have to try that... do we need any special tools for that ?
00:26:48 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (
00:27:03bertrikno, it just appears as an USB drive, you can use explorer to copy the files
00:27:36virtuoso015ok, will try that and let you know how it goes... thanks for the help, bertrik
00:27:49 Part virtuoso015
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00:29:34 Quit bertrik ("-> recovery mode")
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01:08:00naurushey guys. do you think it would be possible to incorperate the cairo vector drawing library into rockbox?
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01:12:19krazykitnaurus, please have patience in waiting for an answer
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01:13:29naurussorry. you've helped me before, krazykit. usually the reply is quicker tho. *sigh*
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01:14:25rashernaurus: I don't see how that would ever work in any reasonable way.
01:14:47 Quit ender` (" Women and Cats will do as they please. Men and dogs had better get used to it. -- Robert Heinlein")
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01:15:51naurusrasher: i agree at first glance, but i know that somehow incorperating the two could seriously add to rockbox's popularity and convenience
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01:17:48naurusacutally, a better question is: Would cario ever work on certain mp3 players?
01:17:54rashernaurus: For one thing, cairo makes heavy use of floats, so that's strike one. Large amount of code added to Rockbox for comparatively little gain (I doubt an increase in popularity would follow as you think) - strike two.
01:18:28rasherAnd we really don't need fancy graphics drawing that bad.
01:19:28naurusthe reason i'm wondering this is that i love rockbox, but i really despise the user interface - including all the themes
01:19:56krazykitso make your own WPS.
01:19:58rasherI really don't see how shoehorning cairo into Rockbox would change that.
01:20:03naurusand when i hand my mp3 player to people, they freak out and don't understand how to use it.
01:20:46rasherYou're proposing a technical solution to an aesthetic problem as far as I can tell
01:20:52naurusi guess maybe not cario, but support for png's and a new main menu. oh, and a change to the language file that changes the word Database to Music or Collection
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01:21:55naurusor how tough would it be to write a rockbox-only graphics engine that's optimized for mp3 players and downgradeable to B*W for archos for example
01:22:16rasherWe already have a graphics engine...
01:22:42naurusone that can draw widgets?
01:22:52rasherOne can draw whatever one pleases
01:23:30naurusin bmp format though, right?
01:24:09rasherWell, in native bitmap format
01:25:00rasherSo what you *really* want is a png loader and support for an 8-bit alpha channel?
01:25:04naurusto me, that's not acceptable. i'm a graphic/web designer, and, one of the reasons i don't write for ie6 anymore is because of its lack of support for png alpha transparencty
01:25:14naurusyes. that would be nice.
01:25:27num1_naurus: I'm currently writing a png viewer because I believe rockbox needs one. If you think rockbox needs a completely redone UI I wish you good luck, but I warn you against telling someone else (or telling the rockbox community as a whole)to do it.
01:25:50naurusbut i think being able to write a gtk-like theme for rockbox would be nice. but very complex
01:26:02rashernaurus: I don't see why this is necessary. You absolutely 100% *know* how the screen looks at all times, so you can adjust your bitmaps as necessary
01:26:08naurusnum1_: I love you.
01:26:15 Nick num1_ is now known as num1 (n=brian@unaffiliated/num1)
01:26:54rasherThere is no guessing involved as with web pages (rendering bugs, screen sizes). You have full control.
01:27:54 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:28:06naurusbut lets say that you enable movement in the main menu, like in the sansa e200. that's not static. and if you want rockbox to become more feasable to people, you'll probably end up needing to add transparency
01:28:55pixelmaand then people complain about sluggishness of the menus...
01:28:59scorchewhat is so "infeasable" about rockbox?
01:31:16num1naurus: I'm confused as to what you're mentioning... even the OF didn't use transparency in the main menu
01:31:55naurusto me, it gets really annoying when things aren't modern. the main menu on rockbox is anything but modern
01:32:21scorcheso things need to be shiny and have animations to be usable?
01:32:38num1naurus: rockbox is functional. Cool graphics take up screen space and reduce functionality.
01:32:58scorchenot to mention it would be sluggish as hell on many devices that simply cant handle that sort of thing
01:33:17naurusnot to be useable, but to be feasable in the real world. and the real world is more than just us coders.
01:33:27scorchethat really doesnt make sense
01:33:32pixelmaI want them to be usable - e.g. in the c200 OF you only see one menu item at a time and need to scroll through all of them to even know the items, that's more unacceptable
01:33:38rasherYou keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it does.
01:33:48num1naurus: again, if you want rockbox to look better any of us would be glad to give you limited support in writing it yourself, but telling us what rockbox "should" be like is a bad idea
01:34:04naurusi totally prefer the origonal firmwares (for the e200) look and main menu to rock boxes
01:34:19scorchethen use that
01:34:25num1naurus: but how many function did the OF have compared to rockbox?
01:34:44scorchethe OF are generally much simpler than rockbox is and can get away with such things
01:34:54naurusi would love to write it, and i've been thinking about learning C just for that, but currently i'm totally absorbed in a huge webpage
01:35:16kugelnum1: How far are you on your png viewer?
01:35:24rasherI'm sorry, but you're not going to see Rockbox turned into something some hypothetical user wants, at the expense of flexibility, simplicity, ease of use (yes, ease of use)
01:35:25pixelmanot to mention the unacceptable loading time of the c200 OF, can't imagine what they did there
01:35:27naurusnum1: everything in rockbox (except the db and graphics) is better than the OF
01:35:59kugelnum1: I actually also wanted to write one, but I'm kinda dropped the idea for now :S
01:36:25kugelnaurus: Where is the OF graphics better?
01:36:44kugelnaurus: It uses simple bitmaps too
01:36:48naurusmainly the man menu
01:37:18rasherI found the OF's menu exceedingly frustrating to use
01:37:25kugelYou know the "mechanics" of the of's main menu? you baiscally only change the bitmap shown
01:37:28nauruskugel: i doubt it. the newest firmware has animation and i don't think that uses bitmaps
01:37:45kugelI never noticed animations
01:37:46num1kugel: yeah in the future a redesign is on my todo list (I've already got sketches) but I figured a png plugin was more practical, easier atm
01:38:14kugelnum1: So, is it already working? ;)
01:38:16naurusnum1: i'd be interested in checking out your sketches
01:38:29naurusnum1: if you don't mind
01:38:35num1naurus: trust me, it's bitmap blitting. There's nothing cool or revolutionary about the OF's main menu
01:39:00nauruson my e200 there isn't animation, but in my friends there is
01:39:06naurusand it's smooth
01:39:09kugelnaurus: I'm using 1.02.24, I can't spot animations
01:39:31num1kugel: lol, I've got a lot of it done, but I'm stuck at trying to display images that are bigger than the screen, so I haven't added support for alpha yet either
01:39:39rasherRockbox has smooth animation, better than all OFs. Check the coverflow plugin.
01:39:58kugelnum1: Mind to post your progress on the tracker?
01:40:09naurushmm. can we implement coverflow with the main menu?
01:40:22pixelmablinking animations... what the world needs... :\
01:40:38rashernaurus: Please no. For the love of god.
01:40:41num1naurus: lemme dig them up, clean them up a little, scan them in, and upload them to a file-sharing site. That's a lot of effort so you're probably going to have to wait until the weekend for me to be able to do that. and they're really not all that good anyway so it's probably not worth waiting
01:40:44nauruskugel: you have to have the newer sansa - it has different firmware
01:41:15kugelnaurus: You can implement in the main menu. Feel free to prepare a patch. Although it's unlikely to be accepted
01:41:32num1rasher: actually a coverflow background on the main menu would be really cool. I can only imagine how much time that would take to code though.
01:41:40naurusnum1: no thanks :P i thought you meant something you quick cooked up on the computer. you meant ACTUAL sketches! lol
01:41:47num1naurus: lol
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01:42:10rashernum1: Good luck with getting that accepted
01:42:23naurusdang. i wish i knew C. i would totally work on this
01:42:24kugelnum1: I'm still interested. As I already asked, would you mind to post your progress on the tracker?
01:42:51num1kugel: yeah I'll post a tracker entry sometime soon
01:43:12nauruskugel: BTW, you have the best rockbox mod IMO :)
01:43:18kugelthough, sad that someone did something before I do :(
01:43:33kugelnaurus: Thanks, but that's off-topic here ;)
01:44:22num1kugel: I really don't like the quality of the code at this point though. I've been testing on my sansa e280 and haven't even started working on stuff like endianness, screens w/o color, low-memory targets, etc. I'll clean up the code a little first and then post it if you don't mind (Also so I don't look like a programming idiot ;) )
01:44:28nauruskugel: yeah, i thought so. i decided to take the risk of getting kicked off. but back to me possible learing C... does anyone know a good starter tutorial online? i've looked before but didn't like any of them.
01:45:32kugelnum1: Well, I can't hold you back I guess. Although I don't think people will complain at this early stage about coding style
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01:47:03kugelnum1: Note: There's this great wording which is always a good excuse: work-in-progress :D
01:48:12num1kugel: lol, have you seen my turkish language translation, now that's a "work-in-progress" :D
01:49:43kugelJdGordon: Any progress in testing the pf patch? Have you read my latest comment?
01:50:09kugelJdGordon: oops, yes you read it.
01:50:22Soapnaurus, much more likely than integrating coverflow into the main menu would be someone to write an alternate menu system as a plugin.
01:51:18SoapRockbox as a Rockbox plugin. Excellent GSoC project. ;)
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01:52:39rasherTurtles all the way down.
01:55:35kugelnaurus: learning C is quite easy. Just take any of the mass tutorials and read the rockbox source parallel
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02:31:09LloreanSoap: In terms of "the best way for users" I would imagine it actually being more like Database being able to call plugins as one of the filters in the chain, instead of any making the whole UI pluggable.
02:31:56LloreanYou mentioned about half an hour ago Coverflow in main menu vs alternate menu system as a plugin
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02:32:53SoapMy intention was not to describe the "best way for users" in any shape or form. My intent was to make the point that the _most likely_ way to get your "alternative" UI ideas seen and accepted would be to make an alternative UI plugin. (Does plugin have one or two g's? pluggin?)
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02:35:06SoapSomething would need to be done about the (as I understand it) all-or-nothing approach to plugins taking the audio buffer (for I assume an eye-candy fest of a UI would exceed the plugin buffer) but an alternative filebrowser / simple menu plugin should be relatively easy.
02:35:21LloreanWell, the plugin buffer is pretty darn big.
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02:36:14SoapBut everyone (who proposes such things) seems to want a kitchen sink of a UI with ponies and rainbows and antialiased widgets which dance with the devil in the pale moon light.
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02:37:06LloreanThe dancing ponies might be problematic, yes, sprites aren't small by nature.
02:38:18LloreanBut look at the Rockbox binary's size. According the the dev.cgi page the binary itself is approximately the size of the plugin buffer, with RAM use being 2-3 times the binary's size.
02:38:48LloreanI can't imagine a large part of the binary is list rendering, and if your plugin was just an alternate means for list rendering you probably have a lot of elbow room.
02:39:33LloreanIt would be nice if plugins could "buffer" a piece of their data, though.
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03:56:44woodensoulhey all, I noticed some work is being done for Creative's line of players. I have a Zen Xtra that I just slapped a 160GB hard drive in, but the only way I'd be able to utilize the entire space is through Rockbox. Does anyone have any links or info on this possibility?
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04:03:01woodensoulI noticed ZenUtils being committed to SVN. Anyone have details?
04:04:47Lloreanwoodensoul: Just read the forum thread and the related wiki pages.\
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04:08:58woodensoulLlorean: Are you referring to the Zen Vision:M thread?
04:10:27Lloreanwoodensoul: I don't know. My point is merely that you should be looking for posted information, and if there's not any, it means there really hasn't been much work done.
04:11:01jfm3Hello I'm running r18217-080807 on an ipod 4G. When I power down, the ipod seems to crash. It displays a full screen image of a low battery, and then stops in such a way that no button presses seem to bring it back. I have to crack the case and interrupt power to get it to boot again. I have checked the battery with a volt meter and it is fine. Any/all clues appreciated! Cheers!
04:11:18woodensoulPoint taken. I just thought there might be some more info available here.
04:12:28Lloreanjfm3: That's a five day old build. And turning hold on then off, and holding menu and select, will still reboot it. just keep trying.
04:12:53LloreanThe full screen image of a low battery is from Apple code, it's a problem with their bootloader.
04:12:54jfm3will try thanks Llorean!
04:13:43LloreanTheir code in flash runs before anything else, and it doesn't always seem happy with a fully shut down iPod. People have run into this without ever installing Rockbox, but since the iPod doesn't actually shut down as often when you're not using Rockbox (it suspends for quite a long period before it actually shuts down) it's not encountered as frequently.
04:14:27jfm3Is there a better way to idle the ipod with Rockbox than the full shutdown? Just let it sit for 10m or w/e?
04:14:44LloreanWhat do you mean "idle" it?
04:14:56LloreanIf you wait for idle poweroff it's still a full shot down.
04:15:02jfm3I see.
04:15:09LloreanAnd please use real English. "w/e" isn't a word.
04:15:42jfm3No problem. Thanks again for the help.
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04:28:45curtmackI have a question about the NSF decoder... why doesn't it segment the tracks? Shouldn't it be impossible to play an NSF file from start-to-finish like the NSF decoder on Rockbox does?
04:29:34*num1 notes that we do use words such as OF here and wonders why w/e isn't allowed
04:29:35curtmackoh wait, I see...
04:29:54Lloreannum1: Because "OF" is a term specific to the Rockbox project anyway
04:30:33LloreanIf we couldn't use technical terms, words like "bootloader" "sansapatcher" wouldn't be usable either.
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04:32:33Lloreannum1: Basically, anything on this page qualifies as a real word in terms of the channel guidelines:
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04:35:53num1Llorean: thanks for the clarification
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04:37:41*Llorean fixes the IRC Guidelines page to include mention of it.
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05:15:58webguest11anyone here?
05:16:38webguest11I have some questions... if anyone's available to answer some?
05:17:15JdGordon_so ask them....
05:18:30webguest11hi, erm, I just installed rock box, and I'm trying to get it to charge while connected to the computer without playing through the computer's software. Before I could just eject the drive but now a message of okay to disconnect lingers
05:18:30kugelJdGordon: could you already overcome the issue where parts of the screen show parts of the previous screen (e.g. wps) when using a non-fullscreen parent?
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05:19:24JdGordon_kugel: thats a problem with the screen not clearing parts it not using...
05:20:01Lloreanwebguest11: It sounds like you have an iPod? If so, just hold Menu while connecting it to the host computer.
05:20:53kugelJdGordon_: Yea, I already noticed ;) However, I'd think it should be clear'able with some use of display->update() or display->clear_display(), but it isn't
05:20:54webguest11yes I do have an ipod... it's ipod classic, there's no port of it but apparently ipod video's port works on it... hopefully it's not harmful :o
05:21:17Lloreanwebguest11: No, video's port doesn't work on it.
05:21:24webguest11I'm using it right now :/
05:21:26JdGordon_kugel: clear_display should do it...
05:21:29Lloreanwebguest11: If Rockbox runs on it, it's not an iPod Classic
05:21:37LloreanYou had an iPod Video and were confused.
05:21:38webguest11well ebay was wrong...
05:21:47webguest11well, now I know :)
05:21:59webguest11anyways, going to try the the menu button then
05:22:59kugelJdGordon_: apparently it doesn't
05:23:22JdGordon_ok, so you might have to set the vp to NULL first..
05:24:38webguest11holy shit it works, though the computer's popping up found new hardware... I assume this is normal and good? :)
05:24:44kugelJdGordon_: That doesn't work either. Also, clear_display does that already
05:25:21Lloreanwebguest11: Yeah, just cancel.
05:25:57JdGordon_kugel: show me.... are you updating the screen after the clear?
05:26:14cool_walking_Llorean: I think Apple have retroactively renamed the previous iPods "Classic"s.
05:26:34Lloreancool_walking_: Funny, their website for identifying distinguished them as separate just a couple weeks ago.
05:26:53LloreanStill does:
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05:27:29kugelJdGordon_: Ah, update() ds+
05:27:45kugels/ds+/seems to do it/
05:29:34kugelJdGordon_: Well, a clear_display() and update() causes flickering again
05:29:34cool_walking_Wikipedia says they've become a "Classic line" on the iPod and iPod_Classic pages. They don't seem to cite anything though...
05:30:18Lloreancool_walking_: well, I just cited you Apple's own "Identify your iPod" page.
05:30:24LloreanYou don't get a more definitive source than that, really.
05:31:41kugelWell, I'm off. Cu
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05:34:00cool_walking_Llorean: Apparently this ( ) is the source, but I don't have sound.
05:34:40cool_walking_"around 00:25:00"
05:35:14LloreanAround 00:25:00 according to who/what?
05:36:37Llorean"Original Style"
05:36:43LloreanThat means "not the Nano style and not the Touch style"
05:36:53LloreanIt doesn't necessarily or even suggest to me it means "all previous iPods"
05:36:57cool_walking_err, wrong anchor. scroll down to "They are not all called iPod Classic"
05:36:57LloreanThey're talking about form factor.
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05:45:32Lloreancool_walking_: I think the problem is the difference between "classic" being used as an adjective, ie "Classic iPods" and as a proper noun for a specific single model, "iPod Classic"
05:48:58Lloreancool_walking_: Yeah, I've just watched the relevant part of the video. He basically says "Because the iPod doesn't have a name, since it was first, now they're the iPod classics"
05:49:17LloreanWhich is basically just a way to distinguish them from the touch and the nano and the shuffle since they're all "iPods"
05:49:34LloreanSo "classic" is the name for the form factor, "Classic" is the name for the model.
05:50:10LloreanStill, the most clear designation will be a mention of the generation anyway.
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07:17:31BiptoNare there any programmin type folks in here?
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07:18:18LloreanBiptoN: If you have a Rockbox question it's best to just ask it
07:18:57BiptoNwell i've been watchin the info on the zune and it hasn't gone too good
07:19:07LloreanNobody's working on it.
07:19:16BiptoNi was just readin' up on th cold boot hack that some fellas put together
07:19:18BiptoNi know
07:19:21BiptoNi saw that
07:19:57BiptoNany hoot they were able to retrieve the key for encrypted hard drives
07:20:27BiptoNthey unplug the power, boot a usb drive and dump the contents of ram to a file then retrieve the key
07:20:57LloreanIf there's important information it's best to post it in the relevant thread so it doesn't get lost
07:21:04BiptoNwould it be at all possible from your understanding to maybe retrieve other keys left behind?
07:21:38BiptoNwell i thought i ask here first to see if it was at all relevent before wastin any more time
07:21:43BiptoNmine and others
07:22:01LloreanI don't understand. If it was a waste of time, it would've been one here as well...
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07:24:27BiptoNok than
07:24:41BiptoNi suppose i'll post the question at that thread
07:24:49BiptoNsorry for wastin your time
07:24:59Quazgaa10 lashes for you
07:25:11LloreanQuazgaa: Please be serious in this channel.
07:25:35BiptoNone more question if i may
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07:26:04BiptoNdid you guys find out some vital info on the ipod battery wise
07:26:25LloreanWhat do you mean?
07:26:27BiptoNi ran a battery bench and the 4t hgen ipod i ran it on lasted for dang near 20 hours
07:26:42LloreanWell yes, there were power management improvements some time ago
07:26:43BiptoNthat same ipod would barely push the 4 hour mark
07:26:51LloreanThey were mentioned in the changelog...
07:27:11BiptoNi haven't been trackin changes as much since i have that darn zune
07:27:23BiptoNthanks for your time
07:27:48LloreanWell you should always search for answers before asking questions.
07:28:03LloreanPlease don't ask if specific bugs are issues are solved without simply checking the log first.
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08:49:01midgeyI've posted a new version of my GSoC work to the tracker. This version implements a single language file as requested.
08:49:36midgeyI'll be back tomorrow (for me) to discuss it a bit since I need some help
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10:13:43LinusNi love the cygwin installer announcement: "This list summarizes the main possibilities, in decreasing order of worstness"
10:14:02B4gderworstness is a fine word
10:14:18LinusNi must say that this sucks for our cygwin users
10:14:34B4gderthe sig crap?
10:15:08B4gderI guess we need to fall back to provide tarballs for the compilers for the cygwin dudes
10:15:26LinusNi think we should suggest option 2: "Tell your users to supply the new -X (−−no-verify) command-line flag when using setup.exe to download from your mirror."
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10:16:32LinusNactually, a giant tarball with an install script is not that terrible
10:17:56GodEaterwhat would it take for us to get our packages signed? (Or whatever we need to do)
10:18:28cool_walking_The problem is users still have to specify a command-line argument, so it's no easier than using -X
10:23:53LinusNeven harder, since they have to download a public key
10:24:45LloreanCan the cygwin setup program be run with a list of packages for unattended installations?
10:24:49LinusNi think we should scrap the cygwin packages and use a tarball and a shell script
10:24:57B4gderI agree
10:25:01LloreanLike, could we tell them to run the usual cygwin setup, then "drag and drop setup.exe on this batch file" or something?
10:25:20LinusNit's onlt a matter of unpacking the archives at /opt
10:25:42LloreanCan tell it's inside cygwin?
10:25:45*Llorean doesn't know how that works.
10:25:56LloreanI would assume there's plenty of ways to check.
10:26:06LinusNi believe works in cygwin
10:26:21LinusNthe problem is that it takes a day or two to compile ut
10:26:23LloreanI meant, though, could it tell it's in cygwin and just download the packages and extract
10:26:27LloreanInstead of performing a full build
10:26:39B4gderah, that could be neat
10:26:40LloreanMaybe ask if you'd like to use the precompiled packages if cygwin is detected.
10:26:46LinusNgood idea
10:27:09LloreanThat then brings us back to having one single "how to get cross compilers working" set of instructions.
10:27:10B4gderand having the tarball on our download mirrors should give people speedy downloads
10:28:10LinusNthe only reason we use the cygwin installer is that it was simple, but now it isn't simple anymore
10:28:53LinusNbesides, using the command line shouldn't be a problem, because if you install the development kit, you should be able to use the command line anyway
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10:33:57B4gderso what would the "install" part involve, after the download?
10:34:17LinusNuntar and update bash_profile
10:34:44cool_walking_I thought you didn't want to fiddle with people's env variables
10:34:59cool_walking_oh you mean tell them to..
10:35:50LinusNthat's about the only problem the cygwin users have
10:35:59LinusNupdating the PATH
10:36:08LinusNand that seems to be a huge obstacle for some
10:36:53cool_walking_Isn't it the same for Linux users?
10:37:03LinusNthe cygwin packages have an install script that updates /etc/bash.bashrc
10:37:07cool_walking_I thought the people who had trouble with PATH were mostly on Linux, not Cygwin.
10:37:15LinusNcool_walking_: actually no
10:37:45LinusNbecause most linux users seem to know what it's all about
10:38:12LinusNmany cygwin users install cygwin only to apply some lame patch
10:38:17linuxstbReading the cygwin announcement, it sounds like they're aware of how inconvenient this is, so may come up with a nicer solution for custom mirrors in the future. Couldn't we simply recommend (and provide a link to) an older setup.exe for the immediate future, and see what happens?
10:38:51cool_walking_Yeah but I think some people are new to Linux, sort of using Rockbox as an excuse to get into Linux, I think.
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10:39:01LinusNlinuxstb: i think we should go for the approach anyway, because building those cygwin packages is a pain in the butt
10:39:15Lloreanlinuxstb: Having download and extract them seems *more* elegant to me actually, since it unifies the install instructions quite a bit.
10:39:23LinusNLlorean: exactly
10:39:51LinusNin fact, we could even provide .deb packages too, if we wanted to
10:39:52cool_walking_Yeah, less diverging instructions is always good.
10:40:00peturotoh, even I managed to build them ;)
10:40:32LinusNpetur: the cygwin packages?
10:41:13cool_walking_Wouldn't .debs likely break across distros?
10:41:28B4gder.debs are only for debian-based distros
10:41:43cool_walking_Yeah, there are lots of debian-based distros..
10:41:50B4gderwe could provide/keep packages for anything anyone wants to create
10:41:53LinusNand in this case there would be no difference between the debian-based distros either
10:42:10LinusNsince the installation is so simple
10:42:27B4gderyeah, and it has very few external dependencies
10:42:42LinusNdoes it have any?
10:42:50B4gderglibc no doubt...
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10:42:56LinusNah of course
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10:43:58linuxstbLinusN, Llorean: Sorry, I hadn't read the final part of the logs - I agree that would be nice, so ignore me ;)
10:44:15LinusNi'll have a go at it soonish
10:44:43*petur wonders about the h300 bootloader :P
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10:53:23LinusNpetur: i have spent quite some time trying to understand what the problem is....
10:54:13LinusNand it is hard since i don't have a player that exhibits the problem
10:54:22peturbtw, bootloader usb doesn't work well in the version I have on it now - is that expected?
10:54:37LinusNi dunno
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10:55:27peturso you need my h380?
10:55:42LinusNor make mine behave the same way
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12:11:07Kokosi'm looking for rockbox build with amiga modules support within. Is there any ready binaries or I must to compile it myself? thanx.
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12:11:23Kokosare there*
12:11:42gevaertsAny recent build should do that
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12:13:07Kokosgevaerts, i used rockbox install util, and my rockbox doesnt recognize this *.mod format..
12:14:14*gevaerts waits for someone who uses mods to comment
12:14:24Kokosbut ill check it again. maybe i did something wrong.
12:16:52LinusNKokos: aren't there a bazillion different amiga .mod formats?
12:18:05Kokosluckz, yeah. but i am trying to use the most popular protracker format.
12:18:31*Kokos it would be great when rockbox could support MOD files via UADE.
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12:29:13bobjimhey I cant get rockbox to work on my flash based 4th gen ipod. I tried compiling the bootloader from svn then installing it with ./ipodpatcher -ab bootloader.bin but I still get an ata error. Any help?
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12:44:38linuxstbbobjim: Does the Apple firmware work?
12:46:59linuxstbWhat ata error is it giving?
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12:48:32QuintasanHiho, I am supposed to compile rockboy and zxbox in order to run it, cuz i cant see precompiled file
12:49:02linuxstbQuintasan: Read the fine manual - they're "viewer plugins", so are run when you select a file in the file browser
12:49:42bobjimlinuxstb: ATA error: -1
12:49:55bobjimthen it says press on to debug
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13:17:23mcuelenaerekrz: hi, I replied your mail
13:17:23krzmcuelenaere: hi, i'm writing a reply too :)
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13:17:23mcuelenaerekrz: yes, now that I know there's something like WPS_REFRESH_ALL and fill_rect() is merely used as something to clear the viewports, it isn't really useful I guess
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13:22:18mcuelenaerekrz: AFAIK Rockbox uses fixed-width fonts; I looked a bit into Qt's QFontMetrics but didn't found it ver useful, how are you going to solve that?
13:24:35pixelmathere are proportional fonts in Rockbox, or do you mean something else than looks?
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13:25:06mcuelenaereI mean every character has the same width
13:25:13mcuelenaereor am I wrong here?
13:25:36amiconnyou are wrong
13:25:59amiconnRockbox supports both fixed width and proportional fonts
13:27:34mcuelenaereah there's a font maxwidth?
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14:45:33hashbangI've been hacking a bit on the rwps for the cabbiev2 theme; is there someone who'd be interested in receiving my mods?
14:46:06hashbangessentially, I trimmed the sides off the 'now playing' bar and added status icons for main/remote hold switches, disc, volume, battery and play mode
14:50:39peturhow about the tracker?
14:52:13hashbangpetur: hmmm?
14:52:33peturpost your changes to the tracker as a patch
14:53:03peturand then nag people here about it ;)
14:54:17hashbangI'm not sure everyone will agree with my asthetics, but I figured I've done the work, others might as well take a look to see if it's worthwhile
14:55:24peturyou could also just post it as a new theme in the wiki, but since this one is SVN, I think the tracker is a fine place too
14:55:40peturinclude screenshots ;)
14:55:58hashbangpetur: I also made the time played/remaining a subline (along with RTC), allowing the right hand side of that line to be used to display the id3 artist tag
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14:56:32hashbangpetur: oh, I need write access to the wiki, too
14:56:37*petur spots another *rock plugin and sighs
14:57:02peturhashbang: sure... wiki name?
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14:58:11hashbangpetur: AlexButcher
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15:01:25hashbangpetur: ta
15:01:36hashbangpetur: what's the best category for my rwps mods?
15:01:42hashbangor UI?
15:01:56*petur on the phone
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15:08:26pixelmahashbang: and mention which remote it is for (I assume Iriver?)
15:08:56hashbangpixelma: yup; I did it for my H300
15:11:14pixelmaI was mentioning it because the Iaudio remote is quite different (bigger and greyscale), the 128x64 monochrome remote can be used on the H100 and H300. I'd be interested in a more "complete" WPS for those as there are some possible targets with the same display type (iFP, Logik Dax)
15:11:58pixelma"type" in the sense of resolution and colour depth
15:12:16hashbangpixelma: feel free to use the icons I did -
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15:19:02pixelmahashbang: you could also discuss your ideas in the "ongoing default theme contest" thread in the forums. As far as I know the creator of the cabbiev2 theme is more often around there and might have an opinion
15:19:52peturand add screenshots :)
15:20:36hashbangpetur: I've never had a lot of luck getting the simulator to build
15:21:43hashbangpetur: in order to make a screenshot
15:22:04petur../tools/configure <target num> S make make install
15:22:11mooshasbang: you can turn on the screen dump option we have under rockbox on your DAP directly
15:22:26hashbangmoos: and that does the remote LCD too?
15:23:00*moos missed the begin of the conversation :)
15:23:09moosit doesn't
15:23:17hashbangmoos: heh. no worries. :-)
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15:23:31hashbangmoos: I hadn't even considered that, so you might have been right. :-)
15:24:06moosjust in case you will need it, now you know you can do it :)
15:28:16krzstrange, wiki doesn't save changes...
15:30:51LinusNkrz: reload the page
15:31:18krzLinusN: surely i reloaded it several times
15:31:58krzseems that changes are saved not immideatly
15:32:11LinusNwhich page?
15:32:12pixelmatwiki also has a problem - WPSEditor is not a wiki word to it
15:32:55krzhow can this be fixed?
15:33:56hashbangok, how do I drive the UI simulator?
15:34:34*amiconn should really add remote screenshot capability
15:35:32LinusNkrz: which page is it?
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15:36:21LinusN"r10 - 13 Aug 2008 - 15:27:37 - RostislavChekan"
15:36:31LinusNlooks fairly recent
15:36:39krznow it is saved, sorry for disturbance
15:36:59LinusNwe should rename it to a wiki word that twiki accepts
15:37:53krzi'm not familiar with wiki, what can you advice?
15:37:57LinusNi just renamed it to WpsEditor
15:39:14krzso, btw, what do you think about editing in this described way?
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15:41:40LinusNkrz: i'm thinking more in the lines of how some html editors work, with a text editor and a live preview
15:42:17krzLinusN: what do you mean?
15:42:29LinusNbut the option to click in the wps preview to reach the corresponding line in the wps source code is kind of nice
15:43:12LinusNkrz: i mean a text editor box where you edit the WPS source code, and a live preview that shows how the wps looks like
15:45:26krzLinusN: ahhh, i meant a bit another way. when we select a line, we can drag neccessary tags and place them directly in the line, with no need to know all tags
15:45:54LinusNah, nice
15:46:32LinusNi guess you would like both, though
15:46:45krzLinusN: but the variant you proposed could be implemented rather quickly
15:47:09LinusNi guess your editor could support both ways
15:47:32LinusNsince not everything can be done with drag'n'drop anyway
15:48:13krzoki, i've understand :)
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16:17:50hashbang # screenshot of my modified rwps remote theme
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17:04:23MarcGuayAnyone care to comment on my intense desire to close this
17:05:16LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: I'm not stopping you. ;)
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17:10:24hashbangMarcGuay: sorry, I'm new to Rockbox dev and couldn't get any clear info on where to start contributing. I won't bother with it any further. Use it if you like, or not.
17:11:19hashbangMarcGuay: not a great way of encouraging new blood, though.
17:12:07 Quit crope` ("Leaving")
17:13:57peturMarcGuay: actually, it was me who suggested it was paosted in the tracker since it is about modifying an SVN theme
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17:16:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:17:42MarcGuayMeh. Confusing reigns. Sorry hashbang (same person as cowbutt?), the problem is that the tracker tends to get cluttered and it's easiest to prune when things show up.
17:18:09MarcGuaypetur: Any thoughts, re-open?
17:18:12mcuelenaerekrz: I edited the WpsEditor wiki page a bit, hope you don't mind
17:19:29krzmcuelenaere: looks rather good :)
17:19:31MarcGuayhashbang: Please don't take it personally, there's just always a bit of disagreement about where things should go.
17:20:04peturMarcGuay: if it is about changing the SVN verion to make it better *and* other remotes will be fixed as well I think it can/should stay in the tracker. It's not supposed to be a new theme, after all?
17:20:24*petur hopes to learn how to type one day :/
17:21:24MarcGuaypetur: I put it on par with my helv12 remix of cabbiev2, which I just stuck in the wiki because I didn't intend for it to become a replacement, nor a "new" theme. In my mind it's better, but...
17:21:26peturlet's ask the RSB :D
17:21:48hashbangMarcGuay: first of all I couldn't find an email address in the existing theme, then I asked on here, and petur said post to the tracker, then someone else said the wiki, now your closure note says post it somewhere else in the wiki.
17:22:27peturhashbang: just shows how well we're organized ;)
17:22:36hashbangMarcGuay: when I've made similar minor changes to components of other projects, I've usually just emailed the author of that component and asked them effectively to 'sponsor' it
17:23:02MarcGuayhashbang: I think it depends on whether or not you'd like to submit it for inclusion in the regular builds, or just as an optional version for those who want it.
17:23:43MarcGuayhashbang: The cabbiev2 default was made by a group of people and it's now just a part of Rockbox licensed under GPL.
17:23:57peturmy thought was that it is a 'fix' for a file in svn so it should go in the tracker...
17:24:08hashbangMarcGuay: I don't mind. It works for me, but I figured it'd be nice if other people could benefit if they have the same itch but hadn't gotten round to scratching it yet.
17:24:28mcuelenaerekrz: the new PlainText feature is pretty nice, only thing is when you press "Update WPS" some of the bitmaps either won't show or show up as (garbled) rectangles
17:24:54hashbangMarcGuay: ultimately, I don't really have the time for the politicking in order to fight for my patches to go in. I try to make them tasteful enough that the original author doesn't object.
17:25:49krzmcuelenaere: jup, i know and wrote it in svn log. there is a solution also, on which i'm working on
17:28:17MarcGuayhashbang: Alright I'm going to re-open the task but I'd also suggest posting it in the WPS gallery because it's more than likely to rot in the tracker and not be noticed (negative much, Marc?)
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17:30:11*gevaerts thinks that this doesn't belong in the WPS gallery
17:30:20peturhashbang: but would you care enough to 'fix' the other rwps screens too?
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17:31:39hashbangpetur: nope. cabbiev2 is good enough for me.
17:32:04peturI mean for the other targets with remote - not other themes...
17:32:41peturif the changes go it, they should go in for all targets
17:32:46n1sthere is only one more remote, right? (iaudio [xm]5/m3)
17:33:31peturcould be, I'm not sure
17:34:22MarcGuayTwo remotes:
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17:34:55livingdaylightja hallo jungs
17:35:40livingdaylighti have a iAudio X5L and wonder what rockbox will give me that original firmware doesn't?
17:35:42peturMarcGuay: ah, the X5 remote is larger and probably doesn't need the change
17:36:54gevaertslivingdaylight: have you already seen ?
17:37:33pixelmapetur: what do you mean with "other remotes get fixed"?
17:38:27peturpixelma: bring his rwps changes to other remotes. I now see there is just the x5, so I was probably just talking rubbish
17:39:05MarcGuaypetur: But the "fix" is adding playstate icons, and the iAudio remotes currenrly don't have them either.
17:39:16pixelmathe Iaudio remote has a quite complete port (IMO of course ;) ) because it is used as main screen on the M3. So I made it more like the othe "full screen" WPSs
17:39:17livingdaylightgevaerts: i hadn't seen no, thx
17:39:31*petur tries to shut up when only half informed :/
17:39:38pixelmaMarcGuay: ?
17:39:59pixelmawhen did you last have a look?
17:39:59livingdaylighthow does one restore default firmware if i want to?
17:40:28MarcGuaypixelma: I'm using the (I guess outdated) DefaultWPS page as a reference.
17:41:30gevaertslivingdaylight: that should be explained in the manual, near the installation instructions
17:42:20pixelmaMarcGuay: yes, that's outdated. The DefaultWPS page just points to the entries in the WPS gallery for some targets, I asked around in the forums and yapper said he would update them with the changes, seems he only did so for the 160x128x2 screen :|
17:42:52pixelmamaybe it was a misunderstanding
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17:43:13livingdaylightwhat is Latex?
17:43:48livingdaylighti downloaded the firmware but i don't know how to install it to my iAudio now
17:44:11MarcGuaylivingdaylight: Please read the installation chapter of the manual.
17:44:12hashbanglivingdaylight: latex is a typesetting package; why do you ask?
17:44:58livingdaylightbecause i opened the manual and it was all about latex
17:45:24gevaertsYou probably did something wrong then
17:45:31MarcGuaylivingdaylight: I think you went to the "how to help out with the manual" page.
17:45:52peturlivingdaylight: use the link I just gave
17:46:00MarcGuaypixelma: So the X5 remote has icons now? The WPS gallery posting for cabbiev2 is also out of date if so.
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17:47:09MarcGuayIn which case hashbang's current modifications to the iriver remote are sufficient for it to be a 'complete' patch?
17:47:44pixelmayes, almost looks like the port for the Mini screen (which has also outdated screenshots in the gallery)
17:48:29mcuelenaerekrz: what do you think of the dynamic proxy library loading I use in the screenshot utility? Shouldn't something similar be used in the WPS editor in order to be able to use several targets in the same app?
17:48:40pixelmaMarcGuay: (to the first question)
17:48:57livingdaylightwow, what a manual! its like a book!
17:49:10livingdaylightbut it looks like Rockbox really Rockz!
17:49:23pixelmalivingdaylight: read the manual, especially the installation instruction. For the Iaudios you should read the "manual installation" part too because there are bits and pieces of the installation process that are not very obvious when using RBUtil yet
17:49:37livingdaylighti just got iAudio X5 on eBay; so, i am excited
17:49:53LambdaCalculus37Yes, a manual usually is a book. ;)
17:50:09pixelmaRBUtil = the Rockbox Utility
17:50:13MarcGuaylivingdaylight: How much did it cost you? $350+?
17:50:17gevaertsAm I the only one who finds that the X5L uninstallation instructions are grammatically dubious?
17:50:17livingdaylighti thought it could be more like a pamphlet
17:51:03LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: They are.
17:51:08livingdaylightMarcGuay: my winning bid was £105 (£111 including p&p)
17:51:19*gevaerts will s/.And/,and/
17:51:42LambdaCalculus37Same goes for the M5 and M3.
17:51:55*LambdaCalculus37 scratches the M3
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17:52:12livingdaylightMarcGuay: that's about us$220 ??
17:52:36*petur manages not to ask if the X5 came with a disk that was sold as-is
17:52:55livingdaylighti could have got a brand new iAudio D2 instead but liked the idea of 30gb to start off with
17:53:28livingdaylightpetur: a disc?
17:53:49gevaertslivingdaylight: don't pay attention to that. Inside joke
17:53:53pixelmaMarcGuay: and yes, I think there could be a tracker entry for it. It's just that I see some more potential... but it would also give a place to collect ideas I think
17:53:55livingdaylightok :)
17:54:24*gevaerts should soon have an X5L with an as-is disk :)
17:54:50*livingdaylight wonders about this inside 'as-is disc' joke :)
17:55:07LambdaCalculus37livingdaylight: Don't ask, don't tell.
17:55:16livingdaylightpetur: it is second hand X5 of course, but kept in immaculate condition it seems
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17:56:41*MarcGuay hopes hashbang isn't turned off by the anality (new word!) of the project.
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18:22:20Ploujwhat are the 3 newest players that rockbox supports?
18:25:12LambdaCalculus37Check the front page:
18:25:38*gevaerts isn't good at this sort of exam questions ;)
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18:43:57n1snow what is the sim doing with 100% of the cputime on one core?
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18:56:24Reptile211hey people yesterday i tried to reset my ipod mini by pressing the menu+select buttons and after the menu+play button and did not work
18:56:44 Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo)
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18:56:52Reptile211and what is happening is that it gives me a folder icon
18:57:09Reptile211then resets gives message do not disconnect
18:57:22Reptile211and loops like this all day
18:57:25Reptile211any ideas
18:58:02Reptile211im thinking the hard drive might of just gave up
18:58:37PloujLambdaCalculus37: that lists more than three players
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19:07:13pixelmapetur: is the "AGC clip time" shown in the recording screen too or just in the settings somewhere?
19:07:34peturjust settings
19:08:26pixelmaok, thanks
19:08:46peturtried the recscreen already?
19:09:48 Quit nplus (Remote closed the connection)
19:10:05pixelmano, not yet
19:10:25*pixelma will start compiling
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19:16:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:16:14pixelmapetur: and how is that "AGC" displayed in the recscreen - showing the chosen mode, something like "AGC: Live"?
19:17:20pixelmaaha, so it would still be better to keep it short, even though not necessary but nicer to avoid much scrolling
19:17:58peturI shortened it in english.lang already
19:19:43pixelmathat leaves me with the question how to do "translate" that into German, I already saw though that you didn't translate it in the Dutch language file...
19:20:26peturyeah, I didn't ;)
19:21:05peturI figured everybody should know AGC
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20:45:12*petur returns
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20:46:38*petur is faster
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20:53:54kugelSlasheri: ping
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21:13:29n1sanyone against renaming the "Getting started" chapter of the manual to "Introduction"?
21:14:25bluebrothernot me
21:14:44*gevaerts votes in favour
21:15:09*bluebrother wants the installation chapter to be rewritten ... but hasn't gotten around doing it himself
21:15:34gevaertsWhile you're at it, it says rockbox is "released under the GNU public license", without any mention of "general"
21:15:38bluebrotherbtw, did anyone try the rbutil binary I posted yesterday? I'd be intested in success stories ;-)
21:15:56*bluebrother can't type today
21:16:02rashergevaerts: And without mention of "v2 or later"
21:16:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:16:33gevaertsrasher: indeed, but I think that in the context of a welcome text, that's not too critical
21:16:59rasherI'm not sure licensing belongs in a welcome text at all, to be honest
21:17:52*gevaerts decides to stop reading. He keeps finding minor things he would like to see rephrased slightly
21:18:22 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
21:18:53gevaertsIt basically uses the license name to point out that this is Free Software. I think that's all right
21:19:01n1sgevaerts: if you start working on the manual you will soon learn to ignore such things :)
21:19:12gevaertsn1s: never!
21:19:29n1sok, I'll add in a "general" in some place then :)
21:20:20gevaertsTell me when you're done. Some of those minor things are really wrong...
21:21:02*bluebrother wonders why using m3u files for saving bookmarks would be slow
21:21:25Bagderbecause you can have very large playlists?
21:21:53gevaertsThey're moderately free-form ascii, so you need a parser instead of just dumping the file into ram
21:22:05bluebrothersure, but you need to load the playlist anyway, don't you?
21:22:21bluebrotherat least if you want to preserve the playlist, that is
21:22:26n1sgevaerts: ok, done!
21:22:32Bagderbluebrother: not when you save the resume point, no
21:22:33*gevaerts gets to work
21:23:15bluebrotherbut in that case you can't place a bookmark in a playlist, only in a file
21:23:29Bagderyes you can
21:23:35Bagderthat's already how it works
21:23:44bluebrothereven if that playlist is dynamic?
21:23:45Bagderbut it doesn't mean you have to re-save the playlist
21:24:09Bagdera dynamic playlist in rockbox consists of two parts
21:24:17BagderA) a fixed list B) modifications of that list
21:24:33Bagderso only B needs to be saved
21:24:39Bagderwhich can be nothing, or a lot
21:25:05bluebrotherhmm. And what happens if that fixed part (be it a folder) changes between bookmark creation and usage?
21:25:34gevaertsIIRC that's when we get in trouble
21:25:43Bagderthe resume point gets wrong
21:25:59Bagderlike when you remove a file from the dir and then resumes
21:26:11bluebrotherif we have a complete playlist (saving the bookmark takes some time anyway, doesn't it?) there is no problem
21:26:30bluebrotheror maybe asked the other way round: what is a better way to fix this issue?
21:26:33Bagderbut if you load a 20000 song playlist, it'll take a long time to save it
21:27:15BagderI think perhaps we should deal with the in-ram case (dirplay) differently than when the playlist is loaded from a file
21:27:20bluebrothertrue, but is it really that likely someone using bookmarks also uses playlists of that size?
21:27:34gevaerts"``\playerman{} playback is currently
21:27:51gevaerts"``\playerman{} playback is currently unsupported''"... Does this make any sense?
21:27:58Bagderbluebrother: sure, I could very well be such a user
21:28:07bluebrotherreally? Oh.
21:28:35*bluebrother uses either bookmarks on folders or large playlists for parties etc.
21:29:55bluebrotherdon't forget that we also need a solution if the dynamic playlist comes from the database. Which means we would need to save the playlist in some form too
21:30:00bluebrotheror is there a better way?
21:30:49Bagderwhat is the "automatic WPS screenshot utility" ?
21:31:42bluebrotherno idea. But the wps editor isn't running on linux yet anyway
21:32:52*bluebrother is a bit annoyed by this windows-centric development
21:33:09mcuelenaereBagder: that's something I made that could serve the future theme site
21:33:42Bagdermcuelenaere: ah, so it "simply" invokes the simulator and saves screenshots from it ?
21:33:52mcuelenaereyes, well not really invokes the simulator
21:34:01mcuelenaereit uses the WPS editor's source partly
21:34:14mcuelenaereso it's 'headless' and runs completely from a commandline
21:34:23Bagderok, nice!
21:34:24mcuelenaerewhich is good for servers
21:34:33 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
21:34:58mcuelenaereactually currently it works pretty decently
21:35:03mcuelenaere(thanks to krz)
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21:40:50midgeyanyone good with makefiles that could help me with some stuff for my GSoC project?
21:41:52Bagderpick me pick me!
21:42:00midgeyThe first problem I'm working on is compiling multiple lang_*.c at once. Right now I manually have to add each one to the makefile
21:42:26midgeystarting around line 226
21:42:53midgeyi'd like a way to compile all lang*.c files in $(BUILDDIR)/lang/ automatically
21:43:29gevaertsYou could do some globbing
21:43:31midgey(that's the makefile from /apps btw)
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21:46:13Bagdermidgey: you could do a simple for loop for all the files matching lang_*.c
21:47:25Bagderlike "for file in lang_*.c; do $(CC) $file ... done"
21:47:38bluebrothersomething like FILES=$(glob lang*)
21:48:11Bagderyes, if you rather do the glob in the make instead of the shell
21:49:01bluebrotherand then there's some foreach construct in make
21:49:30 Quit m0f0x (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:49:41bluebrotheror, if you can build all files using a default rule, use them as prerequisite for your target
21:50:45bluebrotherhmm, it seems you even can do a "print: *.c"
21:50:49midgeyerr.... which way is preferred?
21:51:25bluebrotherI'd prefer using as much as possible in make itself, but this might be due to the fact that I was required to do some Makefile stuff on windows ...
21:51:43bluebrother(and it's _really_ annoying if you don't have a _proper_ shell. cmd.exe isn't one)
21:52:05bluebrotheran, and it's $(wildcard *.c), not $(glob)
21:53:16Bagdermidgey: pick the one you manage to get working! ;-)
21:53:49Bagderwe depend on both shells and gnu make already so it doesn't really matter
21:54:42bluebrothertrue. As I said, just my perference :)
21:55:07 Join perrikwp [0] (i=474cd1dd@gateway/web/ajax/
21:55:30 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (" ajax IRC Client")
22:01:41midgeyso I've added "LANGS = $(wildcard $(BUILDDIR)/lang/lang*.c)" and now i'm a bit lost on the looping
22:02:18midgeyi added "for file in $(LANGS); do $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -c $$file; done;" on line 228
22:04:36Bagderand it doesn't work?
22:04:55bluebrotherI'm missing the -o option to that CC call
22:06:18midgeynope, doesn't work
22:06:50 Quit perrikwp (" ajax IRC Client")
22:07:47midgeyhold on, i think I have another problem, i'll do a clean rebuild
22:08:10BagderI think you may need a newline after do
22:08:11gevaertsbluebrother: the -c makes that unnecessary
22:08:30bluebrotherI'd use something like
22:08:37bluebrothergevaerts: oh? Nice to know :)
22:09:08bluebrotherI'd thought it will create an a.out.o or similar
22:09:09Bagderbluebrother: that works only if we can use the existing default target setup
22:09:47Bagderbut I guess he can
22:09:52bluebrothertrue, but can't he?
22:09:53gevaerts-c means just compiling, no linking, with the output name being the original name with .o instead of .c
22:15:16 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
22:15:26 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
22:16:24bertrik_Can someone with an HD based player test my battery bench patch a bit?
22:17:11 Nick m0f0x_ is now known as m0f0x (
22:17:38bertrik_or better yet, a lot! :P It's at
22:22:03midgeyso the makefile seems to work (i broke genlang...), but all the objects are placed in /apps instead of $(BUILDDIR)/lang
22:23:22bluebrotherthen you need to adjust the -o part of the compiling rule
22:23:31 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
22:23:37 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
22:25:19midgey-o $$file.o outputs to lang_<user>.c.o, is there a way to strip the .c before adding the .o (regex?)
22:25:31 Quit obo ("KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo")
22:25:45rashermidgey: `basename $$file .c`.o
22:26:12rasherOr maybe you can do it in the makefile, to produce less amounts of doom
22:26:26robin0800bluebrother Are you sure you have the right Bootloader in RBUtil?
22:27:28bluebrotherrobin0800: there is no bootloader in rbutil. The bootloader is always retrieved from the download server
22:27:28 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:27:50 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
22:28:08midgeyrasher: this seems to work in the makefile: $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -c $$file -o $(BUILDDIR)/lang/`basename $$file .c`.o
22:28:43robin0800Well has that been updated to work with 1.0.07 firmware?
22:29:40midgeynow second makefile question, is it possible to link lang_<plugin>.o to a plugin if that file exists and not panic if it doesn't?
22:30:14bluebrotheras far as I know only sansapatcher needed updating. Or has there been a change to the bootloader as well?
22:30:19midgeye.g. for blackjack, lang_blackjack.o exists so it should be linked, but for bubbles lang_bubbles.o does not exist so it should be skipped
22:30:46midgeyright now I link lang_*.o to all plugins which is obviously no good
22:32:55robin0800bluebrother, When I made My Sansapatcher I made the Two Bootloaders First So Perhaps The Have Changed?
22:34:12bluebrotherrobin0800: possible. Not really sure about this, but if an updated bootloader is needed a new release on the donwload server is needed
22:35:03 Join tarbo [0] (n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo)
22:35:31bluebrothermidgey: not 100% sure but it could work using if ($findstring string,$(LANGS)) OBJS += string endif
22:35:43bluebrother(add linebreaks where necessary ;-)
22:36:23bluebrotherit's possible that this gets evaluated only once, so you maybe need the eval function
22:36:25robin0800bluebrother, The only change Ican think of was to change E200 to Read C200
22:36:52bluebrotherthen it should work ...
22:36:57*bluebrother is puzzled
22:38:17 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
22:38:28 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr)
22:38:50pixelmawasn't there a change to make something work with the 1.01.07 version of the c200 OF (by bertrik, I think?)
22:39:58 Quit mf0102 (Remote closed the connection)
22:40:48bluebrotherIIRC that was only a change to sansapatcher to make it recognize that OF version
22:41:03 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
22:42:42 Join stripwax [0] (
22:43:25Reptile211how would i know if i need a new hard drive for my ipod mini?
22:43:45 Join perrikwp [0] (i=4aa794a0@gateway/web/ajax/
22:44:20bertrik_yes, only sansapatcher needed a change (a new mi4 key) to allow 1.01.07. Rbutil uses the core functions of sansapatcher so it works for rbutil too.
22:44:48stripwaxrevision 18265 diff looks wrong - shouldn't the line below also be changed?
22:45:45 Quit tarbo_ (Connection timed out)
22:45:45Reptile211The cycle of apple logo and folder icon just reapeats. Could this mean there is a problem other than the hard drive since the display acts the same no matter if the hard drive is in or not?
22:47:19 Join tarbo_ [0] (n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo)
22:47:32bertrik_robin0800, indeed there was also a fix for a bug in sansapatcher that made it write the wrong target id in a header during installation (it showed e200 on c200)
22:47:52 Nick bertrik_ is now known as bertrik (
22:48:40 Join stu8ball_ [0] (
22:52:46mcuelenaereamiconn: ping
22:53:03gevaertsReptile211: have you tried getting it into emergency disk mode?
22:53:16 Join poningru [0] (n=poningru@
22:54:04poningruhey guys is there a link of places where I can purchase old rockbox hackable pmps?
22:54:07Reptile211yeah tried it did not work
22:54:23Bagderponingru: ebay
22:54:32gevaertsReptile211: did not work in what way?
22:54:42Bagderor anywhere else that sells used daps basically
22:54:50Reptile211emergency disk mode
22:55:01poningruBagder, hehe
22:55:28gevaertsReptile211: yes, that's what we were talking about. _how_ did it not work? Did it catch fire, reset, or explode, or what?
22:56:49poningruBagder, I wished there was an rss feed of an ebay search with all the players that were compatible
22:56:52poningrusigh oh well
22:57:01kugelmcuelenaere: have you read what stripwax wrote 6 min before you ping'd amiconn?
22:57:18Bagderponingru: so there's something for you to make!
22:57:41mcuelenaerekugel: no missed that thx
22:57:44gevaertsponingru: good luck with that, the way people describe theyr players on ebay...
22:57:46Reptile211it just kept going the the cycle of do not disconnect and then showing the folder icon
22:58:08mcuelenaerestripwax: will fix that
22:58:14kugelmcuelenaere: No problem :)
22:58:46 Quit tarbo (Connection timed out)
22:59:25 Join einhirn [0] (
23:00:09gevaertsReptile211: if you have a compactflash card lying around, maybe try that. It's probably the easiest way to test if it's te disk
23:00:16*gevaerts needs typing lessons
23:00:38Reptile211yeah im planning to do that
23:00:43*bluebrother hands gevaerts an h
23:00:56Reptile211but just want to make sure that it is nothing else
23:01:03 Quit stu8ball (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:01:11Reptile211before i go out and buy a cf card
23:01:14 Quit poningru ("Leaving")
23:01:44gevaertsI can't think of anything. Of course it could be any loose contact. Maybe you could try borrowing a cf card from someone first, to make sure
23:01:55desowinrasher: regarding your comment for closing #9275 - the strings are the same in polski and english just because they're the same in both languages
23:02:18gevaertsReptile211: if you have a usb card reader around, you could try accessing the disk through that.
23:02:22 Join Lambduh [0] (
23:03:09Reptile211yeah i do have a card reader
23:03:14Reptile211im gonna try that
23:04:14rasherdesowin: Hm, right. There are problems in the Voice strings though.
23:04:58mcuelenaereamiconn: ignore the ping, I fixed the issue
23:05:16desowinis rockbox voice build script compatible with any polish speaking system anyway?
23:06:22rasherdesowin: If you have a polish TTS, I don't see why not
23:06:25bertrikdesowin, why wouldn't it be?
23:06:44bertriktry espeak -vpl <some polish text>
23:06:44desowinwell, only one I know about is ivona and it's not free and windows only
23:07:31mcuelenaereanyone know what's going wrong here?
23:07:42robin0800bluebrother, Not that it helps, just made a second sansapatcher using the download files this also works
23:08:08Bagdermcuelenaere: you need to make found at run-time
23:08:12 Join Lambdumb [0] (
23:08:22mcuelenaereBagder: well it's in the same directory
23:08:23rasherdesowin: you can build voice files using SAPI
23:08:33Bagdermcuelenaere: same dir doesn't work on *nix
23:08:44mcuelenaereahh ok, so what do I need to do?
23:08:45bluebrotherexport LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:.
23:08:59Bagderor edit /etc/
23:09:11Bagderor copy the .so to a dir that is already in the file
23:09:36bertrikI need some advice regarding charging on c200 and e200, The problem is that both targets cannot really reliably indicate battery voltage when the charger is enabled and powermanagement relies on that.
23:09:41*bluebrother updates the wps editor and ignores heaps of warnings
23:10:24bertrikOne thing I can do to measure battery voltage (and thereby charge progress) is to stop the charger for a moment to read the battery voltage, then resume charging again.
23:10:44pixelmadesowin: still, I think it's good if a language would be prepared for building the .voice for it even if there was no TTS engine around currently. You can always build an english voice from english.lang and rename it to yourlang.voice
23:10:57bluebrothernice, now the library doesn't build for me at all :(
23:11:28Bagderbertrik: that sounds like a fair approach, as long as you don't to it too often
23:11:30bertrikAnother way is to read a voltage whose voltage depends on the charge current. The charge current drops during charge and can also be used as a progress indicator I think
23:11:31mcuelenaereyeey /me got the WPS editor working on Linux
23:11:47bluebrotherwhat did you change? Current svn doesn't even build anymore
23:12:08gevaertsbertrik: don't you risk reducing the battery lifetime by doing that sort of stop-start charging?
23:12:26bertrikgevaerts, I don't know, but I don't see why it would
23:12:59gevaertsI don't know either, but there is this thing about a limit on the number of charge cycles that you keep hearing about
23:13:13*bluebrother needs more time for Rockbox hacking
23:13:26gevaertsI don't know if that's true, or what constitutes a charge cycle anyway
23:14:14rashergevaerts: I'd guess that's for full->empty charge cycles
23:14:48mcuelenaerebluebrother: I'll post a FS# later
23:14:59mcuelenaereit builds fine under windows btw
23:15:08 Join tessarakt [0] (
23:15:43bertrikAs far as I know both low and high voltages are bad for a Li battery and during charging you put a relatively high voltage on the battery
23:16:07bertrikbesides, a Li battery loses capacity even if its not used as far as I've read
23:16:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:16:17robin0800bertrik, I would think to use voltage or current dependig which on is still useable as batteries age
23:16:59 Quit Schmogel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:17:46 Join Davide-NYC [0] (
23:18:27 Join jarredsinger [0] (
23:18:27 Quit jarredsinger (Client Quit)
23:19:27mcuelenaerebluebrother: FS #9277
23:20:12mcuelenaereI'm not sure about the QPropertyEditor dependency thingy though
23:20:20mcuelenaereperhaps this should be implemented differently
23:20:47Davide-NYCThe iriver H120 bootloader does not support USB disk mode with CompactFlash cards. Can this be considered a bug? If so I'll post a bug report on the tracker. Otherwise what can be done?
23:20:54peturBagder: is there something wrong with the build server of obo?
23:21:34bertrikI could make function battery_adc_voltage aware of whether it's charging or not and make it return a cached value (measured, say once a minute) when charging and a fresh measurements when not charging
23:21:42*Bagder checks
23:21:44Davide-NYCpetur: Nice work on the WRS! Cheers! addmittedly I haven't had time to really test it yet.
23:22:40peturDavide-NYC: when I get my CF card and adapter, Iĺl see if whe can have a new bootloader beta for h1x0
23:22:52*bertrik checks out the WRS on his c200
23:22:59Bagderis obo perhaps the first one using 4.3.1 to build sims?
23:23:05Bagdergcc that is
23:23:16peturBagder: looks like it
23:23:33 Quit Lambduh (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:23:45 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
23:24:54 Quit EspeonEefi ("さよなら")
23:24:56Bagderit looks like legitmate warnings even
23:25:20Bagderor is ATTRIBUTE_PRINTF not defined for sim builds?
23:26:21Bagderit is
23:26:54bluebrothermcuelenaere: there are filename casing issues *again*?
23:27:07*bertrik wonders why there are two peak meters
23:27:13stripwaxHmm, says the latest ipodpatcher is v1.0 with v1.1 bootloaders, but downloading the windows version it tells me v2.0 with v2.0 bootloaders. Do ipod bootloaders even have "a version" ?
23:27:13*bluebrother bangs head to wall
23:27:47stripwaxAnd if I build my own bootloader, which "version" is it?
23:28:44bluebrotherthese heaps of warnings are also ... kinda cool
23:28:54mcuelenaerebluebrother: could you take a look on the QPropertyEditor change in I made; are there better ways to do this or.. ?
23:29:08mcuelenaereseems rather hacky to me
23:30:35bluebrotherthe whole editor seems rather hacky to me :(
23:30:58mcuelenaereit just needs a cleanup I guess..
23:31:06bluebrothercool, "Quit" from the menu doesn't work ...
23:31:07mcuelenaereespecially proxy/*; that's really a mess
23:31:23bluebrotherthat naming is also quite bad.
23:31:38*mcuelenaere thinks krz needs SVN access so everybody can work on it
23:31:55 Quit robin0800 (" HydraIRC -> <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)")
23:32:37*bluebrother disagrees as long as the code has such obvious issues like filename casing
23:32:38*Bagder agrees
23:33:05Bagderwell, his work would be in a separate dir anyway, won't it?
23:33:07bluebrothera repo for others to work on would be useful, though
23:33:23 Quit tessarakt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:33:24mcuelenaereBagder: right, mine is currently in utils/wps_editor
23:33:43Bagderexactly, so it wouldn't really hurt anyone even if mistakes are committed at times
23:33:43bluebrotherbesides, has he been around on irc recently? I haven't seen him around much
23:33:54mcuelenaereyes, but not all day
23:34:06bluebrotherwhat's his usual online time?
23:34:06stripwaxis gsoc fulltime or ... ?
23:34:13bluebrotherstripwax: nah :P
23:34:17mcuelenaerehe's usually reachable at email
23:34:27mcuelenaereI emailed him after he went off on IRC and he responded
23:34:30Bagderit is supposed to be full time or at least almost full time
23:34:58bluebrotherwell, dev talk happens here, does it? So why do we need to contact him via mail?
23:35:24bluebrotherhe also cuts himself from loads of potentially helpful guys ...
23:35:26mcuelenaereI just contacted him to get feedback, I even recall myself saying him he should go on IRC
23:35:38mcuelenaerebut that was some time ago
23:36:19bluebrothermcuelenaere: about the project file question, IMO those two side projects should go in folders that are parallel and the top level folder should use the subdirs template
23:36:34mcuelenaerehmm a bit like rbutil currently does?
23:36:58bluebrotheryes, but there is only one subdir in that case ;-)
23:37:09mcuelenaereyeah ok
23:37:30bluebrotherI also really don't understand why this proxy thing has to have its own Makefile. It should use a pro file too
23:37:48mcuelenaerethat's because it's based on checkwps I guess
23:37:52bluebrotherso there are three "subprojects": gui, propertyeditor and proxy
23:37:58 Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:38:19bluebrotherthought of that myself, but adjusting it should be doable. Especially if a student is working full time on it ...
23:38:50*bluebrother is a *bit* annoyed by his communication with the community
23:38:53 Quit snoh (Remote closed the connection)
23:39:17*bluebrother feels like getting a grumpy old man. Greets to all grumpy old men! :)
23:39:22*Bagder did a "guidance commit"
23:39:45bluebrotherguidance commit?
23:39:59Bagderthere are ~130 warnings/flaws to fix
23:40:23BagderI fixed 3 of them ;-)
23:40:45Bagdersee the build table!
23:41:09bluebrotherI'm still wondering how the switching between targets for the editor should work ...
23:41:35 Quit m0f0x ()
23:41:43mcuelenaerebluebrother: I think the WPS screenshot principle should be used
23:41:45bluebrotherah, now I see.
23:41:48 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:42:08pixelmaBagder: but you got more points! ;)
23:42:36Bagderthat's not my commit showing
23:42:54Bagdermine seems to have been unnoticed
23:44:08midgeywhy is "ifeq ($(findstring $(BUILDDIR)/lang/lang_$*.o,$(LANGS)),$(BUILDDIR)/lang/lang_$*.o)" always false?
23:44:12bluebrotherBagder: the error logs show broken characters for me −− my browser seems to default to latin1 but the page is utf-8
23:44:35Bagderyes, we should make those builds use "LANG=C make" or similar...
23:44:43bluebrothermidgey: this $* looks strange ...
23:45:05mcuelenaerebluebrother: krz was here from around 10h till 17h
23:45:08bluebrotheror make all pages use utf-8. I think consequently going utf-8 would be a good idea anyway
23:45:16mcuelenaere(log time)
23:45:28bluebrothermcuelenaere: ok, that's completely overlapping with my working hours :/
23:45:40 Join safetydan [0] (n=evertond@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
23:45:59midgeybluebrother: according to $* is a special macro
23:46:14midgeyecho $(BUILDDIR)/lang/lang_$*.o seems to work fine
23:46:41bertrikargh, do we really need the %s in printf everywhere ?
23:47:30Bagderbertrik: well, those are all bugs waiting to happen right now
23:47:37bluebrothermidgey: interesting. Wasn't aware of that
23:47:54bertrikBagder, it's only really a problem if the string contains a %, right?
23:48:16Bagderyes, but many of those strings are dynamic so they can get a % letter pretty easily
23:48:35Bagderlike from a translation
23:48:39rasherOr tags
23:49:01bluebrothershould the %s expansion expand % at all?
23:49:10bertrikand won't this lead to an enormous binsize increase?
23:49:21Bagderbluebrother: no, %s strings don't expand anything
23:49:43bluebrotherthen I'm failing to see the problem
23:49:52Bagderbluebrother: these cases don't have %s at all
23:50:12Bagderjust printf(string)
23:50:18bluebrothermidgey: I'd try to use findstring without those paths.
23:50:35bluebrotherah, now I get it
23:50:46bertrikI do prefer correctness over binsize though
23:51:00Bagderme too
23:51:24 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
23:51:29rasherI should think gcc will optimise printf("%s", foo) to be exactly the same, or at least close to printf(foo)
23:51:56 Join teddy__ [0] (i=4b51198d@gateway/web/ajax/
23:51:59Bagderit would be interesting to test that
23:52:08bluebrotherisn't there a puts() function for that?
23:52:11 Join stripwax [0] (
23:52:23Bagderprintf-style functions surely
23:52:39teddy__Hi. Im getting a sandisk sansa e200 soon, and wondered this. If i install rockbox is it going to use my batteryt oo fast, and ultimately cause me to need a replacement?
23:52:45 Quit stripwax (Client Quit)
23:52:58Bagderteddy__: no
23:53:13teddy__oh sry... is this a developer channel?
23:53:16teddy__should have read lol
23:53:35bertrikI've seen gcc substitute printf by puts indeed, but I don't know if this happens in rockbox too,
23:53:36bluebrotherplease check the FAQ ...
23:53:49 Join wpyh [0] (n=william@
23:54:02bluebrotherdoes Rockbox have a puts()? Shouldn't that get used rather than printf(string)?
23:54:12Bagderbut the problem is not with printf
23:54:16Bagderjust printf style functions
23:54:24Bagderlike gui_syncsplash
23:54:32bluebrotherouch ...
23:54:35rasherbluebrother: But the use is often through eg. gui_syncsplash, which sometimes *does* take actual format strings
23:54:49 Quit teddy__ (Client Quit)
23:55:02bluebrotherok, seems I still haven't got the real issue before.
23:55:03Bagderthat function is marked print style by the use of a __attribute__() thing
23:55:05*bluebrother feeels stupid
23:55:12wpyhmcuelenaere: I based hxf2ihfs on 1) reading hxfsplit, and 2) reverse engineering
23:55:13midgeybluebrother: ifneq ($(strip findstring $(BUILDDIR)/lang/lang_$*.o,$(LANGS)),) seems to work
23:55:40*mcuelenaere wonders why he asked wpyh that question
23:55:51wpyhmcuelenaere: do you happen to know how to calculate the checksum fields in the HXF file?
23:55:56*wpyh wonders too
23:55:57mcuelenaereyes I think so
23:56:02bluebrothermidgey: did you forget $( in front of findstring?
23:56:03mcuelenaereor at least I did
23:56:22mcuelenaerewpyh: tomac documented it
23:56:27mcuelenaerejust a sec
23:56:52wpyhah, is it on the ChinaChip wiki page?
23:57:01Bagderok, so 6 bytes binsize increase in average per fix
23:57:16mcuelenaerewpyh: yes it is :-)
23:57:22Bagdernot very scientific, but still
23:57:27wpyhthanks :)
23:57:27mcuelenaereI forgot I put it there :S
23:58:01*wpyh needs to read more before talking
23:58:25mcuelenaerewpyh: btw, had any chance contacting your ex-ingenic employee friend?
23:58:37midgeybluebrother: looks like i did, and that doesn't actually work
23:58:55 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:58:58midgeyi'm going to tackle this anew once I eat

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