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#rockbox log for 2008-08-31

00:00:34saratogai'm having a weird issue
00:02:19saratogaI've defined something in config.h but it doesn't appear to be defined later buffer.c
00:05:49gevaertsMaybe between wrong #ifdefs?
00:06:32 Quit bughunter2 ("bye")
00:07:00 Join ZincAlloy [0] (n=d9eef15d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7492138a9bcbdd39)
00:08:00 Nick Kopfgeldjaeger is now known as Kopfi|offline (n=nicolai@monitor-mode-enabled-on-mon0.phy0.de)
00:08:46saratogano its definately getting to it, it just takes the else block instead of the if
00:08:53saratogai wonder if buffering.c doesn't include config.h
00:08:58 Join bughunter2 [0] (n=Jelle@77.164.66.126)
00:10:22 Quit snoh (Remote closed the connection)
00:12:00saratogaand apparently it does not
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00:31:36linuxstbsaratoga: I'm here now...
00:36:03saratogalinuxstb: Bagder was asking about my evaluation for the GSOC project, maybe you have some feedback on that?
00:36:58saratogayou probably looked at the code more then anyone else
00:39:16 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:40:29kugelreacocard: May I take some of your database parser code?
00:40:45kugelYou didn't specifically license it, so I ask
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00:41:23reacocardkugel: feel free. if I add a license at some point itll be some variant of the GPL, so treat it as such
00:41:46kugelthanks
00:42:41domonokyreacocard: if we ever want to use your database code in some python-qt-rbutil plugin, it should be unter gpl v2 or later.. :-)
00:42:51*gevaerts wouldn't recommend a variant of the GPL if the GPL will do
00:43:26kugelgevaerts: he was probably saying variant as in version
00:43:41bluebrotherwell, for an rbutil plugin I'd prefer to use the already existing database code from the main source
00:43:59bluebrotherthat way someone would also try to keep those up to date ;-)
00:44:39kugelSlasheri: Why is the deleting so slow=?
00:45:23domonokysure, using rockboxs c database code would be better, but when we have working python code, and no working C version, i take what works.. :-)
00:46:41reacocarddomonoky: noted, thats fine by me
00:47:27 Quit kugel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:47:31*bluebrother goes building Qt 4.0.1 to test his qmake trickery
00:50:42reacocardbluebrother: note that im going to be using this python code myself.... so I have a vested interest in keeping it working :)
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01:00
01:01:58 Join Earworm [0] (n=chatzill@adsl-76-226-155-7.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net)
01:03:10Earwormhey folks, anyone familiar with the gigabeat hardware? I cracked my screen and I got a new one, but one of the connector cables is weird and I don't know how to plug it
01:03:43toffe82Earworm: which one the small one ?
01:03:58EarwormI got the f10
01:04:06Earwormohhh!
01:04:08Earwormyes
01:04:12Earwormthe tiny connector
01:04:31toffe82ther is a lock on the connector
01:04:42Earwormthe one on board?
01:05:07 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
01:05:13toffe82yes on the top right side
01:06:19Earwormtoffe82: if I face my gigabeat towards me, the cable I can't connect should go on the left side
01:06:35Earwormthe other one clicks in nicely in the slot
01:06:40 Quit ender1 (" If God had intended us to go around naked, He would have made us that way.")
01:06:42toffe82the big one ?
01:06:50Earwormthe big one is fine
01:06:59Earwormhold on, maybe I can take a picture of it
01:07:05toffe82just plug it in the conector of the board
01:07:11 Quit oofus[away] (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:07:12toffe82the is only 2
01:07:43Earwormyes but the small one is loose
01:07:48Earwormit doesn't just click in
01:07:53Earwormis that normal?
01:08:01 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
01:09:10toffe82for the small one you have to lift the lock , insert the cable and lock it
01:09:32Earwormhow do I lift it?
01:10:15Earwormjust pull up on it? or is there a latch or button or something?
01:11:24toffe82you lift it from the opposite side of the cable
01:11:38toffe82just 90 degrees, no more
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01:13:04Earwormtoffe82: i think I know what you're saying
01:13:25Earwormaaha!
01:13:30Earwormit popped out! nice
01:14:34domonokyrockbox center
01:14:38domonokyups
01:14:44domonokywrong channel
01:14:53toffe82push the cable to the maximum and lock it
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01:24:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:25:03Earwormhey toffe82 that worked! thanks a lot dude!
01:25:28toffe82:)
01:25:55Earwormone more thing, as I was working on this my batt. switch loosened up and fell off
01:26:07Earwormis it always loose or did I do something to it
01:26:09Earworm?
01:27:57Earwormit wont matter after i put the little plastic over it but just in case
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01:38:19toffe82 itselt is loose ?Earworm: the switch
01:38:23toffe82:)
01:38:40toffe82Earworm: the switch itself is loose ?
01:39:00Earwormyes
01:39:51toffe82never had the problem, only the small plastic cap is loose, not the switch
01:39:51Earwormi mean it falls off if the little plastic part isn't covering it
01:40:06Earwormweird...
01:40:19toffe82?
01:40:51Earwormhmmm?
01:40:55toffe82i never had a problem with the swithc
01:41:21toffe82you have a picture ?
01:41:23Earwormi see, it shouldn't be a problem I think
01:45:25Earwormif it is, of course I'll be back at my favorite place #rockbox :)
01:45:44Earwormby the way, did the firmware got flashed yet for gigabeat?
01:46:46toffe82I think there was some test but it is not done
01:47:29Earwormwhen was that test done?
01:47:35Earwormroughly
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01:57:40toffe823 or 4 months ago,m I think it is on the wiki
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01:59:34Earwormhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatFXPort ???
01:59:38EarwormI don't see anything there
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03:24:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:00
04:04:40Unhelpfulso, if i can see a few of the places where the S charging code might get into the state where it's reporting battery charge wrongly, what'd be the best way to see what's "really" happening. ideally, i'd like to be able to log the order in which some events are happening, but afaict DEBUGF won't really help me w/ this.
04:06:19JdGordon|zzzyou need to make a logf build
04:06:36 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
04:06:46JdGordoniirc you then view the log in the debug menu
04:07:11Unhelpfuli was meaning to ask how i see it. so there's a ringbuffer, or something?
04:09:06JdGordondunno
04:10:41Unhelpfuli had gotten the impression that logf was some sort of debug-serial-output-over-usb, or such. don't know from where. a log that's in a file, or in memory and viewable or saveable in rockbox UI, is pretty much *exactly* what i was looking for
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04:17:00Unhelpfulthe charging code is entering an "Error" state on unplug. the most obvious place i can see is that attempts to read the charging current will set this state - perhaps that is happening after actual unplug but before the unplug event fires
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04:55:28Unhelpfulhrm, i don't like that the object file doesn't refer to any logf symbol, and that strings doesn't have any of the debug texts i added. :/
05:00
05:09:56 Quit m0f0x ()
05:10:37Unhelpfulactually calling logf inside powermgmt-imx31.c causes a data abort 0004e594. is logf unsafe in certain contexts, or broken on beast, or something else?
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05:25:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:34:42UnhelpfuljhMikeS: i'm trying to debug an error state in the debug->battery display after unplugging w/ your gigs-charging patch. it *looks* like after unplug, charging_algorithm_small_step is called w/ charger_input_state still set to CHARGER, and charger_current_update_ave and adjust_charger_current both fail due, i think, to being unable to read a valid charge current. if you can take a look, or want me to look for/provide more i
05:34:42Unhelpfulnfo, please let me know.
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06:19:07moyixis there any code started for Sigmatel STMP 3500 based devices, eg the Mobiblu DAH-1500? a pointer to an SVN tree would be great...
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07:25:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:52:13ICHChello
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08:00
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09:15:45*linuxstb attempts to try the wpseditor and notices it won't show ".rockbox" in the "open wps" dialog (on Linux)
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10:11:23HM4A1hey anyone there?
10:12:05HM4A1..
10:12:24scorche|shpatience...
10:12:42HM4A1hey
10:12:58HM4A1can u give technical help?
10:13:29scorche|shplease have a look at the guidelines linked in the topic...specifically to the "dont ask to ask" part
10:14:13HM4A1riighhhttt
10:14:17HM4A1whatever then
10:14:19HM4A1err
10:14:34HM4A1Is it possible to load Rockbox on MP4 models that arent listed?
10:15:30scorche|shwe list specific models for a reason...
10:15:46HM4A1ok
10:16:18scorche|shthere may be specific ports in progress, but those liested on the front page are the ones that "work"
10:16:42HM4A1ohk
10:17:07HM4A1would installing a port thats not specific to your mp4 create a bad effect if it didnt work?
10:17:08HM4A1as in
10:17:12HM4A1would it fuck it?
10:17:47scorche|shand how would you propose "installing" it?
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10:18:20HM4A1err i wouldnt know I havnt had the chance to check it out yet
10:18:31HM4A1how is it installed?
10:18:48scorche|shit is a different process depending on which target
10:18:54HM4A1ah right
10:18:59HM4A1but
10:19:04HM4A1say i managed to let it run
10:19:06HM4A1actuall
10:19:08HM4A1y
10:19:19linuxstbHM4A1: These are the steps you need to install Rockbox on a new device - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort
10:19:21HM4A1would the installer run if it wasnt going to run? if it was an exe say..
10:19:22scorche|shwhat is "it"?
10:19:23HM4A1ohk
10:21:18HM4A1sall right dw
10:21:31HM4A1i think i will just give it a miss and use the actual firmware
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10:21:56HM4A1cya budy
10:21:59HM4A1thanks for the help
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10:55:32webguest18hi i need some help
10:55:56webguest18can anyone help me?
10:57:26linuxstbJust ask
10:58:28webguest18umm im having some problems with the bootloader
10:58:40webguest18its saying my ipod is not plugged in when it is
10:58:52webguest18and yes i have checked disc thing
11:00
11:00:04linuxstbWhich ipod do you have?
11:01:31webguest18ermm idk its a ipod nano
11:01:40webguest18its one of thoughs small ones
11:01:43webguest184gb
11:02:25linuxstbDoes it play video?
11:02:35webguest18ermm it can
11:02:38webguest18i've gt about
11:02:40webguest187 movies on there
11:02:52linuxstbThen its a so-called "3rd generation Nano", and Rockbox doesn'
11:02:56linuxstbt work on it
11:04:33webguest18dam
11:05:25webguest18thats stinks
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11:17:08bjwebbhello
11:20:12webguest18hi
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12:07:48*bertrik wonders why rockbox splashes "deleting..." after it has already said "deleted"
12:07:50krzhi all! multitarget wpseditor patch is ready: fs9344
12:10:31ripperoOhi. Is there any plugin for book reading? I need bookmark support, but have'nt found it in default text viewer.
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12:25:36bertrikkrz, I'm trying it out, but I don't see anything under the Target menu, just an empty list it seems
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13:10:22gevaertsbertrik: try running buildall.sh in libwps and copying all .so files over to gui/bin
13:11:12krzgevaerts: hi, it's about new patch?
13:11:25gevaertskrz: yes
13:11:47*gevaerts wonders why both e200 and e200r variants of checkwps are needed
13:13:11gevaertsAs far as I understand these only differ in which OF they run and what name it says on the back
13:13:42krzgevaerts: so, we can exculde it from targets.txt
13:14:40gevaertskrz: we can. I'm just wondering why linuxstb added it in the first place
13:14:41krzgevaerts: what is the fs number of the patch? i lost it :)
13:14:50bertrikI may be missing something again, but I get an error on compilation of libwps (WPS_ALBUMART_ALIGN_RIGHT undeclared)
13:14:59gevaertsFS #9344
13:15:20gevaertsbertrik: not all targets compile currently
13:15:33*gevaerts goes to have lunch now. Be back later
13:16:08krzbertrik: there are about 8-10 targets compiling successfully
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13:19:41linuxstbkrz: I tried your wps editor for the first time this morning, and noticed that (on Linux, and presumably all Unix variants) that ".rockbox" isn't shown in the "open wps" dialog.
13:20:15krzlinuxstb: jup, it doesn't show idden files
13:20:22krz*hidden
13:20:44linuxstbMy other comment is that I think it really needs to be a theme editor (i.e. loading/saving a theme .cfg), and not just a wps editor. Otherwise, how can you show the correct font and colours in the WPS?
13:22:07krzlinuxstb: i thought about this idea :) probably this could be
13:22:33*linuxstb suggests "svn mv wpseditor themeeditor"...
13:22:47bertrikkrz, ah I have it working now for e200 :)
13:22:56BigBambiI was under the impression it was going to be a theme editor :)
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13:23:19BigBambiJust themeing the WPS and not the rest of it seems like half way only
13:23:40linuxstbAlso, why is the Linux binary called "wpseditord", but the windows binary seems to be "wpseditor.exe" ?
13:23:54*bertrik wondered about the d too
13:24:03krzlinuxstb: it is debug version :)
13:24:15domonokythe d is qts way of telling you its a debug version.. :-)
13:24:22krzyou can build release changing pro file
13:24:42linuxstbSo the Windows version is "release" by default and the Linux version "debug" ?
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13:25:23krzlinuxstb: nope, i have also debug version by default on windows
13:25:35linuxstbBut it's still called wpseditor.exe ?
13:27:07krzlinuxstb: nope, it should be wpseditord
13:27:18linuxstbOK, then the README is wrong.
13:27:40krztrue..
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13:28:56linuxstbWould it make sense for "release" to be default, and then add instructions to the README for building a debug version?
13:30:13krzlinuxstb: may be it is good
13:30:22bertrikI would rather use a debug version at this point, what is the advantage of a release version?
13:30:56krzsmaller size =)
13:31:13BigBambihow do you select which target to compile for? I just ran qmake-qt4 && make - it compiled fine, I ran it, and on trying to open a wps it segfalted
13:32:56krzBigBambi: do you see any libwps, in gui/bin?
13:33:08BigBambilibwps.so
13:33:10linuxstbbertrik: Then you can follow the instructions in the README for building a debug version ;) I'm hoping that would be as simple as passing an option to qmake or make...
13:33:58ripperoOhi. Is there any plugin for book reading? I need bookmark support, but have'nt found it in default text viewer.
13:34:02bertriklinuxstb, no I'd rather have YOU do something special to build a release :P
13:34:34BigBambiripperoO: As I understand it, the text viewer will remember where you were on the previous text file, but there aren't bookmarks per se
13:34:41BigBambiHowever, I could well be wrong
13:34:50BigBambiDoes the manual say anything?
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13:37:09ripperoOBigBambi, haven't found manual page about it
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13:38:33BigBambiripperoO: This is it in the manual: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-gigabeatf/rockbox-buildch9.html#x12-1940009.3.10 but it doesn't seem to mention it
13:39:17BigBambikrz: Where do you select which target you are building for/opening the WPS for?
13:39:56bertrikBigBambi, you need to compile the libwps.so targets in libwps with buildall.sh, then copy them over to the directory containing the wpseditor executable
13:40:45BigBambibertrik: Thanks. I just followed the readme which doesn't mention any of that....
13:41:14BigBambiIf you do just follow the README, it builds fine and even runs, but segfaults when you try to open a .wps
13:41:29linuxstbBigBambi: I didn't think you could at the moment - it looks to be hard-coded for the H10 5GB
13:42:03linuxstbBigBambi: But see #9344
13:42:33BigBambilinuxstb: Cheers
13:42:45krzBigBambi: do you open wps file like WPSNAME.dimensions.wps?
13:43:35bertrikBigBambi, error handling is not complete yet I think
13:43:56BigBambinope, it is called cabbieBB.wps - but it is for the gigabeatF, so if doing qmake-qt4 && make as in the README without doing buildall in libwps and copying the required .so it is hardcoded to the H10 5GB, I guess that is why it failed?
13:44:41BigBambibertrik: Do I need root to run buildall?
13:45:09krzBigBambi: and how is called wpsfilder?
13:45:21krzcabbieBB? or cabbie?
13:45:28BigBambicabbieBB.wps
13:45:36BigBambiOh, sorry, folder
13:45:38BigBambi:)
13:45:40BigBambicabbieBB
13:45:47BigBambiIT works fine on target
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13:49:40BigBambikrz: It opens fine if I build and copy the libwps.so for the gigabeatf
13:50:03BigBambiThe icons are all in the wrong place, but it doesn't crash
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13:50:27krzyou are testing it on linux, yes?
13:50:35BigBambiyes
13:50:38krzyes, libwps.so))
13:51:25krzstrange. i'll make logging later to find out where it crashes
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13:58:36*gevaerts would build debug versions at least until it is considered ready for general use (i.e. until it's a really usable text-based wps-editor with preview)
13:59:19gevaertsThen you can at least just set ulimit -c unlimited and just get a usable core file, no need to try to reproduce rare segfaults any more
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14:02:04gevaertslinuxstb: you can set it to show "hidden" files by right-clicking on the open dialog
14:02:17YippMNhey guys, i have a Sansa e260 and rockbox , and some how shut off the backlight, is there a way to reset to defualts and get the back light back on?
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14:04:18gevaertsYippMN: hold Rec immediately after turning it on
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14:05:47YippMNgevaerts, ahh ok thanks worked :))
14:06:51gevaertsYippMN: it's in the manual by the way :)
14:07:17YippMNgevaerts, oh it is? hmm must have missed it thanks again
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14:07:45gevaertskrz: you need to add qApp->applicationDirPath()+"/" to the getModelName() call in QWpsDrawer::getTargets() to make it work when launched from another dir
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14:52:06UncleRemusDo you have a tip on how to fast put rockbox to play all music files on the device? (I have all Artists in the root folder, I think I saw somewhere that this was the preferred arrangement, but maybe I remember incorrectly?)
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14:52:54UncleRemusIf I have them all under a /music/... -folder, it would be simpler. Any cons with having that structure?
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14:57:57PaulJamUncleRemus: there isn't really a "preferred" arrangement of your music files in rockbox. many people have their music under a /music/ directory.
15:00
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15:08:16*gevaerts uses /audio
15:08:17s00nI have a player x-cube x-501 sr, whether it is possible to put him rockbox
15:08:25s00n?
15:09:54gevaertss00n: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort
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15:19:05nobodyspecialanyone know if the current rockbox build will work with a Pioneer DEH-P600UB car stereo?
15:21:09JdGordonthere is none
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15:21:24JdGordon|zzzor... no it wont work
15:21:29nobodyspecialdamn
15:21:48nobodyspecialit works with my girlfriends rf adapter, but yeah it doesn't want to work with my new deck
15:21:53nobodyspecialmakes me sad =/
15:24:38UncleRemusPaulJam: OK, I must have misinterpreted that from somewhere. I'll get myself a /music folder then.
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15:28:01PaulJamnobodyspecial: there is a work-in-progress patch for the ipod accessory protocol (not sure if that's what you're looking for, though): http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8624?histring=protocol
15:32:53s00nipod suck
15:34:22nobodyspecialnice, this might work for me, thanks PaulJam
15:34:46nobodyspecialand this isn't in the default branch eh?
15:37:24bluebrotherno, otherwise it wouldn't be a task in the tracker, would it? ;-)
15:37:44PaulJamas far as i know not. so you'll have to compile your own build with this patch applied
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16:00
16:03:31hunden1as far as purchasing a new player, is there one that is particularly recommended for running rockbox?
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16:04:26BigBambihunden1: It depends what features you want
16:04:32domonokyhunden1: mybe take look at the wiki: BuyersGuide ..
16:04:36BigBambisee www.rockbox.org/wiki/BuyersGuide
16:04:36gevaertshunden1: two things : (a) "a new player" is pretty vague. What are your requirements? and (b) No "new" player works with rockbox, so you'll need to go second-hand or refurbished
16:04:52gevaerts(or long-lost stock that someone suddenly found)
16:05:31BigBambiIf you just want reasonable capacity with no radio/recording etc., I'd go for the Gigabeat F, for recording the H100, for a paper weight an ipod
16:06:03gevaertsFor a paper weight I'd go with an AJB or JBR. Much heavier
16:06:15BigBambiBut they are more useful than an ipod
16:06:38hunden1gevaerts: my thoughts exactly, I have not been looking around alot but the models listed on rockbox.org appears to be either out of stock or obsolete
16:07:02gevaertsNone of them are obsolete... Not available new, maybe, but certainly not obsolete
16:07:06BigBambihunden1: They aren't produced any more, that doen't make them obsolete
16:07:25BigBambiI would take some of the older players over any currently produced ones any day
16:07:39hunden1basically I would like cue and vbr support
16:08:08BigBambiany Rockbox player will do that
16:08:34BigBambiWe are talking more about the big features - what storage, radio, recording, colour screen,.....
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16:10:31hunden1flash media, radio and colour screen is not crucial. in essence, an affordable lightweight player with display
16:11:22 Nick jfc^2 is now known as jfc (n=john@dpc691978010.direcpc.com)
16:11:56BigBambiHow much storage?
16:11:59 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]")
16:12:11hunden12GB is sufficient
16:12:30BigBambiget a sansa e200 or c200 then
16:12:36BigBambimake sure they are v1 though
16:12:45BigBambiv2 doesn't work at the moment
16:13:01Galoisfroobi.com still has 2GB v1 sansas for $30. I'm not too happy with mine, though. They have a buzzing noise (all of them).
16:13:02hunden1how can I be sure of that before I purchase it?
16:13:09domonokysomething like this.. http://www.froobi.com/SanDisk-Sansa-e270-6GB-MP3-Media-Player-w-FMVoice-Recorder-Factory-Recertified-Rockbox-Ready_p_78-32282.html
16:13:26BigBambihunden1: Unfortunately, the only sure way is to look at the OF version
16:13:27gevaertsExcept that froobi doesn't deliver outside their own country
16:13:54BigBambiGalois: I've never heard it myself, but have heard others say so - it depends quite a lot on earphones I think
16:13:57domonokythe only sure way to distinguish a v1 sansa from a v2 is the firmware version (v2 sansas have firmware version 3.x.x.)
16:14:22BigBambihunden1: However, I would be very surprised if you found a v1 in a shop
16:14:26gevaertsThe other 2GB player you can get is an ipod nano 1st gen
16:14:39BigBambiebay would be the best bet - that way you could ask the seller the OF version as well
16:14:42 Quit MethoS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:14:56bluebrotheryou could also look for an ipod mini on ebay. Much easier to figure if Rockbox will run or not ;-)
16:14:59domonokyBigBambi: take look at the link i posted. v1 sansas ready for rockbox from a shop... unfortunatly they only ship to US...
16:15:10gevaertsOr you could go for an ipod mini. If you ever want more storage, just put a CF card in it
16:15:11BigBambidomonoky: yes, refurbs
16:15:25BigBambidomonoky: I meant new in a shop, sorry, I didn't say that
16:15:27hunden1if they only ship within us that is a problem for me
16:15:27domonokyBigBambi: sure, but from a shop :-)
16:15:52BigBambiShop to me tends to mean real physical shop as well :)
16:16:22BigBambihunden1: In summary, you are going to need to look second hand whichever player you decide on
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16:16:27hunden1I'll take a look at the used market
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16:16:40BigBambi(with some exceptions)
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16:33:50hunden1alright, thanks for your thoughts
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16:39:53*gevaerts is angry at gcc
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16:52:45kugelSlasheri: ping
16:57:14*gevaerts seems to have done interesting things with the usb stack lately
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16:57:40kugelgevaerts: tell me more
16:57:55gevaertskugel: easy. It eats filesystems for lunch
16:58:31kugeland cats for dinner?
16:58:34kugel;)
16:58:37gevaertspossibly
16:58:47desowinand is never fed up
16:58:50kugelpoor cats, evil usb
16:59:30*bluebrother wonders why gevaerts would do that
16:59:58*gevaerts did it by trying to fix corruption issues
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17:00:52*kugel wonders how reliable usb on PP502x is now
17:01:13gevaertsOn what target?
17:01:14kugelafter r18327
17:01:23kugele200 for example
17:01:27bluebrothergevaerts: kugel -> e200 :D
17:01:33gevaertsnot h10?
17:01:48kugelyea, I don't get why you're still asking me that question ;)
17:02:33kugelbut, I apparently need a new device soon
17:02:45desowinkugel: it's not reliable with high speed, with full speed it worked quite ok for me
17:02:46bluebrotherwoah ... you crazy? :P
17:03:02gevaertskugel: that fix only works for some people, but makes it worse for others. In addition, it seems to cause serious issues on ipod (investigating now)
17:03:16kugeloh
17:03:39gevaertsIf that is indeed the case, I'll revert it...
17:04:33*gevaerts thinks that occasional corruption for some sansa users is better than guaranteed corruption for all ipod users
17:05:23*kugel hands gevaerts some #ifdefs
17:05:26kugel:P
17:06:07gevaertskugel: what about the "some" in some sansa users? For some e200 people, this patch causes problems
17:06:21*gevaerts lets kugel and desowin fight it out
17:07:00kugelgevaerts: #ifdef UNLUCKY_SANSA_USER :D
17:08:28kugelhmm, I'm wondering whether I get a new, unported dap, or an old rockbox'd one
17:08:50gevaertskugel: anyway most people agree that usb_storage.c is the wrong place to handle this. It's basically an sd driver issue, and it should be fixed in ata-sd-pp.c
17:09:05gevaertsThe only issue is that we don't have a real fix
17:09:56kugelI start studying computer engineering in october, so I possibly be able to start hacking a device myself (not alone of course)
17:10:14kugelgevaerts: sad to hear
17:12:16 Quit PaulJam (".")
17:17:07*kugel found a very interesting datasheet on sony a810/a800 series
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17:49:32Beyecixramdhi
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17:51:06advcomp2019Beyecixramd, hello
17:51:26Beyecixramdi was browsing the rockbox site
17:51:50Beyecixramdi have an archos 705, what can i do to have rockbox on it?
17:52:13linuxstbhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort
17:53:04Beyecixramdlol embedded programming in c
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17:53:59bertrik_yes, it's a lot of fun
17:54:17gevaertsmost of the time :)
17:54:25kugelhow hard would a port be, given there's very detailed datasheets and OF source code available?
17:54:26Beyecixramdhum
17:54:27*bluebrother suggests embedded programming in java to increase the fun
17:54:40Beyecixramdwhat is a pcbs
17:54:43BeyecixramdxD
17:54:44*gevaerts hits bluebrother with a virtual machine
17:55:04gevaertsBeyecixramd: pcb == printed circuit board
17:55:22Beyecixramdand what's a flatbed scanner?
17:55:28bertrik_off-topic
17:55:36BeyecixramdxD sorry im new but i want to learn
17:55:38domonokyBeyecixramd: ask google...
17:55:51bluebrothergevaerts: jvm or something like virtualbox? *g*
17:56:03bluebrotherwhat is the internet?
17:56:05J-23Beyecixramd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scanner#Flatbed
17:56:08gevaertsbluebrother: both. That's heavier
17:56:11Beyecixramdthx
17:56:16*bluebrother ducks
17:56:33domonokyhow about a hypervisor for rockbox... something like Xenbox :-)
17:56:36bluebrothergevaerts: what is a virtual machine? SCNR.
17:56:53*gevaerts hits bluebrother with a heavy object
17:57:17bluebrotherouch
17:57:21Beyecixramdso i have to scan and upload the circuits?
17:57:41*bluebrother hands gevaerts this heavy Qt4.4 tarball
17:57:57gevaertsThat's the first step, yes. You need to know what hardware is used exactly
17:58:06Beyecixramdok
17:58:26bluebrotherwell, knowing if the CPU is supported by gcc is the first step. You don't need necessarily to scan the pcb for that
17:58:34bluebrotherbut it might help
17:58:44Beyecixramdso i must learn c in order to put rockbox in my device?
17:58:46gevaertsbluebrother: what should I do with that? Shouldn't GUI installers be written in python anyway?
17:58:59Beyecixramdi mean, there isnt an alternative way
17:59:14bluebrothergevaerts: no, ruby :P
17:59:34*bluebrother blames domonoky for the python plugin task
17:59:36gevaertsBeyecixramd: you could try to find some other owners of the same device
17:59:42 Quit ghen (Remote closed the connection)
18:00
18:00:10bluebrotherBeyecixramd: in fact, you _should_ try to find others with the same device wanting to port Rockbox. It's lots of work ...
18:00:25Beyecixramdlol
18:01:42bluebrotherno, nothing to lol about. That's serious
18:02:00*bluebrother is tempted to drop the backup-bootloader-file stuff for now
18:02:13gevaertsporting rockbox to a device is not an afternoon's work.
18:04:03Beyecixramdi know
18:04:30Beyecixramdbut i really want to port rockbox to the 705
18:05:14bluebrotherwell, do we know about the CPU architecture of that player?
18:05:56Beyecixramdeh.
18:06:18Beyecixramdall i know is that works at 700 mhz
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18:09:00BigBambilooks like it is ARM
18:09:37J-23The 605 WiFi, along with, reportedly, the 705 WiFi and 604 WiFi, were successfully hacked to run the Linux platform QTopia with help from the same users who had done so on the older PMA400.[7]
18:09:42J-23as Wikipedia says
18:09:51BeyecixramdQtopia?
18:09:55Beyecixramdwhat's that??
18:10:04J-23Qtopia is a Linux distribution for mobile devices
18:10:06gevaertsA QT based mobile GUI
18:10:27Beyecixramdhmmm
18:10:36Beyecixramdthat shouldn't make things easier?
18:10:48J-23maybe
18:11:08Beyecixramdill try to install qtopia
18:11:29Beyecixramdoh lol it supports wifi in the archos devices
18:11:34Beyecixramdit's gonna be fun
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18:11:59bluebrotherwell, sounds like some guys figured at least the basic hardware. This does make things easier, but still loads of work
18:12:57domonokyits seems this device already runs linux, and its hacked : http://code.google.com/p/arcwelder/
18:13:07Beyecixramdyeah BUT
18:13:21Beyecixramdqtopia only works in a 1.7.06 firmware
18:14:41Beyecixramdafk
18:14:46*bluebrother goes breaking his bootloader rework once more
18:19:33*domonoky thinks it may be better to go the "Rockbox as a Application" way for this archos 705 target... they already run linux,and have a way to install custom code and rockbox probably can not provide all the features this device has (like wifi/tv out, etc) ...
18:20:32*gevaerts agrees
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18:24:41Beyecixramdok, im back
18:24:53Beyecixramdim now installing the image in my archos
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18:28:18J-23oh..
18:28:56Beyecixramdit doesn't seem to work...
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18:30:03Beyecixramdok, it haves problems with the 2.x firmware
18:30:21gevaertsBeyecixramd: while this QTopia thing may be a good first step to get to know the software and hardware, it is off-topic here
18:30:36Beyecixramdok
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19:00
19:17:30_emphello
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19:22:19Sinnermanhello. is there a way to direct rbutilqt to an already downloaded rockbox.zip?
19:25:08rasherSinnerman: No, but if you already have downloaded rockbox.zip, simply unzip it to your drive
19:25:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:25:51Sinnermanrasher: i did, and all it asked me when i chose install, was whether to back it up, or to overwrite it; i guess i should have just used the sansapatcher and gone the manual installation route, altogether. where does it save the downloaded files, by the way?
19:27:09rasherSinnerman: Just install the bootloader, and manually unzip rockbox.zip to your player. That's all the full install does
19:27:40Sinnermanrasher: ah, well, i'll bear that in mind for next time; it's doing a full install and downloading stuff now :D. where does it save the downloads?
19:27:50rasherSinnerman: That I don't know
19:28:18Sinnermanfair enough.
19:29:15 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
19:29:45Sinnermanwell, it would seem it saves those files as a series of qt_temp* files in /tmp.
19:32:05domonokySinnerman: thats correct, they are stored temporary in the temp dir, till they are unpacked to your device...
19:34:12Sinnermanach. so if you have a lousy internet connection, you can't cache those for a later reinstall, if you need it. not a big problem, i can do it manually, but the behaviour was slightly unexpected :D.
19:34:41J-23Beyecixramd: and does Qtopia work for you? ;)
19:34:47Beyecixramdnope
19:35:15Beyecixramdmy firmware version is 2.1
19:35:34Beyecixramdthe archos guys fixed the exploit in the version 2
19:38:10domonokySinnerman: there is an option in rbutil to turn on a file cache...
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19:38:58Sinnermandomonoky: i have to admit, i just fired it up, and clicked on install. i should have played around with it a little first. by the point i realised what it was doing, i thought i might as well just let it carry on.
19:40:23rasherdomonoky: Err, please speak English in the tracker
19:40:46domonokyups.. this lanuage switching confuses me..
19:40:48J-23Hmm, what are the problems with v2 Sansas?
19:41:02 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
19:42:33Sinnermanim glad i have a v1. i never quite like its user interface, and now, well, for whatever reason, its boots up every time asking me what language, and forgetting the settings. i had delayed installing rockbox :S. i thought now's the time. :D
19:42:59Sinnermanwell, i have a v1. sansa e260.
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19:43:27*J-23 considers buying e200 or other player better (= with bigger screen) than my C240
19:43:32J-23my C240 has broken audio connector
19:43:35J-23known issue
19:43:50Beyecixramdbigger screen?
19:44:01Sinnermani also just bought a 4GB ipod nano 3rd gen today.
19:44:08Beyecixramdthe archos 705 has a 7 screen
19:44:14J-23c240 has 132x80px
19:44:15Beyecixramdhaves*
19:44:22J-23= AFAIK 2"
19:44:33domonokyBeyecixramd: but it doesnt run rockbox.. (for now) :-)
19:44:37BeyecixramdxD
19:44:44Beyecixramdthat's right
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20:00
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20:04:47bluebrotherSinnerman: if you want to install offline there's "offline mode" in rbutil.
20:05:18bluebrotheralso, "full install" does more than installing a build and the bootloader. It also installs the fonts package and allows installing themes directly.
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20:08:43Sinnermanbluebrother: i realised that after i had it going. i need to check out the offline install mode, though, for future reference.
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20:09:10LymiesSo I'm using the GUI installer on linux, third generation ipod. I click the full install thingie and it downloads something and then says 'could not open ipod.'
20:09:42domonokyLymies: are you running it as root ? it needs raw dis accesss..
20:09:53Lymiesoh
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20:11:53Lymiesthank you domonoky
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20:15:16bluebrotherSinnerman: currently offline mode requires you to have performed the same install before to get the files cached. If you have a good idea on how to improve that please tell so ;-)
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20:19:30 Part virtuoso015
20:21:39Sinnermanbluebrother: hmm. maybe have a tab in the config to get you to point it at the files you downloaded manually?
20:22:33bluebrotherwell, unfortunately it's a bit complicated. The files to download differ between targets and are saved on different servers.
20:23:09bluebrotherwhich is a reason we don't have a local repository support yet.
20:23:35Sinnermanyeah i was just thinking about that.
20:23:41Sinnermanthat would be a nightmare.
20:24:57bluebrothercurrently the downloading class uses md5 values of the server urls as cache filenames. Problem is how to build this database up
20:25:28bluebrotherfortunately bootloader installation is only a rather small download, and manually installing the build isn't really hard
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20:26:50Sinnermanyeah, i just thought i'd try to do it the easy way first hehe.
20:27:09Sinnermanwow. man, there are so many options in rockbox :S. lol. it'd take me a while to get used to it.
20:27:57*domonoky recommends Sinnerman a look at our fine manual.. :-)
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20:30:49Sinnermandomonoky: you know, how when you get something new you just can't wait to play with it :D. i'll get there sooner or later though. hehehehe.
20:32:13*domonoky just mentioned the manual, so look at it before you ask about all those features here :-)
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20:34:41J-23Is there iRiver E100 simulator?
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20:35:45domonokyJ-23: rockbox doesnt run on this, so why should we have a simulator for it ?
20:36:20J-23"iriver H100/115 NO MAJOR ISSUES" on TargetStatus wiki page
20:36:33Lymiesok i just installed rockbox and now its not being recognized by my system
20:36:38gevaertsJ-23: H and E are slightly different letters
20:36:52*gevaerts explains about the alphabet
20:36:56J-23ahh
20:36:56Lymiesubuntu, ipod 3rd generation, full install with the gui installer
20:37:40kugelLymies: You need to boot into disk mode/OF
20:37:51Lymieswhats that
20:38:01kugelOF = Original Firmware
20:38:09kugelRockbox doesn't offer USB by default
20:38:15Lymiesoh
20:38:20Lymieshow do you make it offer USB
20:38:51kugelWell, you would need to alter the source code and compile your own rockbox build
20:39:02domonokyLymies: rockbox usb support isnt completly ready, reboot into apple os for usb
20:39:34Lymieswell how do you boot into the apple firmware
20:39:35kugelThe USB code isn't reliable on many targets, so I really recommend just using the OF for file transfers. Rockbox will see the files anyway
20:39:58kugelLymies: How about you take a look at the manual?
20:42:27Lymiesmmmm
20:43:04bluebrotherRockbox Utility even has a complete tab for the manual ... ;-)
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20:58:08Sinnermangah. :'((( i wish i'd started using rockbox a LOT earlier. if only because it lets me max out the bass so much :D.
20:59:37Sinnermanpity my earphones can't cope with that.
20:59:44Beyecixramdhey
20:59:57Beyecixramdso rockbox deletes the audio limitation
21:00
21:00:03Beyecixramdon ipods
21:00:03Sinnerman:D maybe i shouldn't have bothered with the ipod nano after all :D.
21:02:53Sinnermanaw man, i wish all my music players let me max out the bass like this does. it gives a new meaning to listening to music. <3 <3 rockbox!
21:03:02scorche|shBeyecixramd: rockbox doesnt touch the original firmware...rockbox is simply a replacement firmware that doesnt have such a limitation implemented
21:03:28Beyecixramdrockbox roxks
21:03:32Beyecixramdrocks*
21:03:36BeyecixramdxD
21:03:47Sinnermanscorche|sh: before i dive into the manual per se, is it possible to modify the data displayed when playing a file, like the vu meter, song title etc?
21:03:49bluebrothernew meaning to listening? "Don't need to listen to anything else than the bass anymore"?
21:04:03bluebrotherSinnerman: http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
21:04:23Sinnermanbluebrother: richer sound! agh. i knew someone was going to point me out there. i have downloaded it already. still playing around with it :D.
21:04:44domonokySinnerman: yes, look at the manual, or WpsGallerys in the wiki.. :-)
21:05:00*scorche|sh kicks JdGordon|zzz
21:05:40bluebrother"richer" meaning "only bass ... nothing else" ...?
21:06:24Sinnermandomonoky: thanks. i just discovered custom view :D and was wondering why it was blank hehe. then realised. im used to figuring out things for myself. this is waaayyy to complex though :D.
21:06:31Sinnermanbluebrother: slightly richer then :D.
21:08:20Lymiesi cannot find in the manual how to boot into the original firmware
21:09:31*domonoky points Lymies at section 3.1.3 ..
21:10:00bluebrotherLymies: is "Starting the original firmware" descriptive enough? http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipod3g/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-290003.1.3
21:10:06Sinnermanhey by the way, the manual's a great job. so's the firmware. i mean, wow. im just sad i didn't use it earlier.
21:10:29Lymiesthanks
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21:15:15Sinnermanbattery life on my sansa e260 is kinda lousy these days. :S
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21:17:06Sinnermanit's a lot nicer player with rockbox on it. by far. anyways, thanks guys.
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21:36:15BgerBagder: alive ? :)
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21:39:12Bgerrasher: ?
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21:39:55rasherBger: I'm here
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21:40:30BigBambidammit it all
21:40:40*BigBambi just got filesystem corruption on the beast
21:41:08bluefoxxso im trying to mod the image files in a wps file, only changing the colors. no problem doing that but when i tested it out i get htese big ugly chunks of pink which previusly showed nothing. how can i fix this?
21:41:10BigBambitrying to unzip a new build from today containing the don't corrupt the filesystem fix :)
21:41:18Bgerrasher: hi, do you have some spare time to commit a bulgarian lang upd ?
21:41:44rasherBger: Sure
21:41:49Bgerjust a sec
21:41:59Bgerhttp link ok?
21:42:06rasherYep
21:42:11Bgerdiff or full file ?
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21:42:36rasherEither will do
21:42:42Bgerk
21:42:52domonokybluefoxx: make sure this pink is really pink (255 0 255), only then it will be transparent..
21:43:36Bgerrasher: just a sec
21:44:09bluefoxxdomonoky: ok, thanks
21:45:13bluefoxxdomonoky: eerm, is there any utility i can use for this purpose? im using a windows port of the gimp at the moment
21:46:19crashd_that's magenta btw, not pink :p
21:46:37BigBambicrashd_: 255 0 255 is hot pink
21:46:46crashd_255, 0, 255 is cyan
21:46:50crashd_umm, magenta
21:46:53bluefoxxso 255 0 255 as in rgb values right?
21:46:55crashd_what am i even saying
21:47:06crashd_you can call it hot pink if you'd like BigBambi ;)
21:47:39BigBambiIt is not magenta
21:48:04BigBambibluefoxx: yes
21:48:16crashd_fine, you believe what you want man, i was just clarifying :)
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21:48:32BigBambiIf you clarify wrong, to me that is not clarifying
21:49:07BigBambiI take that back
21:49:12crashd_red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, yellow, i don't see the problem man
21:49:13*domonoky points to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magenta . :-)
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21:49:28wpyhhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_pink
21:49:37bluefoxxBigBambi: allriight, thanks
21:50:02bluefoxx{accedentally hit the back button on my mouse while switching to this tab}
21:50:07wpyhhm... that link seems to be wrong
21:50:45BigBambiSorry, I was referring to magenta as what that wikipedia article calls magenta dye
21:50:58Bgerrasher: you've got the link, haven't you?
21:51:13BigBambiI didn't realise it also meant pink
21:51:15rasherBger: Yeah. You're Hristo Kovachev, right?
21:51:20wpyhBigBambi: _my_ link is wrong
21:51:31Bgerrasher: yeah
21:51:32BigBambiwpyh: domonoky's isn't
21:51:35BigBambiwpyh: domonoky's isn't
21:51:54BigBambioops, sorry for the repetition
21:52:16wpyhah, ok
21:52:22wpyhbut it is indeed magenta
21:52:27rasherBger: Committed. If you have more free time, check rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/problems.php?lang=bulgarian">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/problems.php?lang=bulgarian - some of the issues can be fixed using the automated fixer form at the bottom of http://rasher.dk/rockbox/translate/
21:52:29wpyhit's a bit confusing..
21:53:49Bgerrasher: ah, let me see it
21:54:25rasherBger: And if you have a fixed file, you can upload it at the bottom of problems.php to have it checked
21:55:33Bgeryeah, i saw it ;)
21:55:39BigBambicrashd_: Anyway, apologies for the confusion :)
21:55:57crashd_no probs dude, i wasn't trying to be an ass :)
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21:58:33rasherBger: I'd probably apply the "empty strings" and "voice strings" fixes, then work manually from there
21:59:10Bgeryep, the sort makes things worse ...
21:59:26Bgerfor checking the diff
22:00
22:00:06rasherExactly. It doesn't serve much of a purpose either. Genlang doesn't keep new entries sorted, so with time, it'll get wrong again
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22:05:16Lymiesmy ipod isn't charging...
22:06:13Lymiesi tried plugging it into my computer and to an ac adaptor and whenever i plug it in it just flashes the low battery signal for a few seconds and then the screen goes blank
22:10:21saratogaLymies: I think thats a common problem with the apple bootloader
22:10:38saratogajust leave it charging for a day or whatever and it'll sort itself out
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22:18:05Lymiesit was an issue with the charger itself
22:18:11Lymiesi used another one and now it works
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22:25:28Bgerrasher: here?
22:25:41rasherBger: Yep
22:26:11Bgersame link, i only did 'fix empty strings'
22:26:56Bgertoo much work for the voice fixes
22:29:56rasherBger: Don't think it's worth it to commit only that - it doesn't make a practical difference (for Bulgarian)
22:34:55Bgerokey:)
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22:38:59bluefoxxthere we go
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22:48:11rasheramiconn: Should I bother about order of headers and properties, to make the diffs smaller, or just commit the fonts?
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23:00
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23:04:33mcuelenaerewpyh: even if we ignore them, it's not a good sign that these interrupts occur
23:04:41mcuelenaereI mean, it's not healthy
23:04:45wpyhyes, it's definitely not good
23:04:56wpyhbut maybe we can ignore those for now ?
23:05:15 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]")
23:05:51mcuelenaerefor the logs: http://pastebin.com/fa181bcd
23:06:00mcuelenaerewpyh: I'm not sure, perhaps this is possible
23:06:11mcuelenaereI'm not really familiar with MIPS cpu's
23:07:00wpyhhm
23:07:02*wpyh too
23:07:24 Quit miepchen^schlaf ()
23:07:37mcuelenaereI'll look it up
23:07:46saratogaaren't TLBs on MIPS cores standardized?
23:07:52saratogai thought it was in teh MIPS ISA
23:07:56mcuelenaereyes they are
23:08:13mcuelenaerebut I'm having trouble reading & understanding the Linux code
23:08:30mcuelenaereI'm not really good in MMU stuff..
23:08:53wpyhmcuelenaere: I've made it forever: http://pastebin.com/f3dac97c
23:09:09mcuelenaerewpyh: so did I :)
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23:10:15wpyhmcuelenaere: I saw it marked as "a month"
23:10:24mcuelenaereweird
23:10:42wpyhah, I see
23:10:54wpyhif I reopen the new link, it still says "a month"
23:10:55 Nick oofus[away] is now known as oofus (n=chris@oofus.demon.co.uk)
23:11:02wpyhmaybe we just have to look at the prefix for the link
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23:11:08wpyhf -> forever, m -> month, d -> day
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23:39:44billiobhi, i'm having Result: -5 with latest daily build on my iriver h120, i've run a fsck, removed .rockbox and installed it again
23:40:06billiobanyone knows where i can find old daily builds ?
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23:42:05scorche|shbilliob: are you sure you downloaded the right zip file?
23:42:08dionoeabilliob: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/h120/
23:42:12bluebrotherhow old was your old build? What version of the bootloader do you have?
23:42:36bluebrotherdowngrading isn't a proper fix ...
23:42:57scorche|shdionoea: eh...
23:43:28dionoeawhat?
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23:44:54billiobthe zip is rev18375
23:45:30billioband the bootloader is installed since many years
23:45:50scorche|shbilliob: i mean are you sure you have an H120 and grabbed the H120/H140 build and not the H100/H115 build?
23:46:04bluebrotherso, what version is it? I suspect it's too old and it looks for rockbox.iriver in the root
23:46:17dionoeaBagder: The other rockbox download mirror (ie not the videolan one) still has old files from 2007 in the daily builds. You might want to ping the admin to tell him to fix his rsync line so he doesn't run out of disk space
23:46:26billioboh, maybe you're right :) it's late here...
23:46:38scorche|shbluebrother: no...error -5 means that the checksum is wrong
23:47:06billiobi've read that
23:47:36bluebrotherscorche|sh: argh. We need strings as on the other targets here too
23:48:20billiobok, thank you, it's working as expected :)
23:48:28bluebrotherstill, billiob could run into issues with an outdated bootloader only looking in the root
23:48:35bluebrotherok, seems not :)
23:48:46scorche|sh=)
23:51:21billioband bootloader is alreday version 6
23:53:09 Join Casainho [0] (n=chatzill@87-196-155-253.net.novis.pt)
23:53:16Casainhohello :-)
23:53:33bertrik_hi Casainho
23:53:40CasainhoI am trying to build the bootloader for a costum port and I get this error: export/AT91SAM9260.h:748: Error: bad instruction `at91_reg MATRIX_MCFG1'
23:53:42Casainhoexport/AT91SAM9260.h:749: Error: bad instruction `at91_reg MATRIX_MCFG2'
23:54:22billiobthanks again for your work, i wish i could find some time to code with you
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23:55:06*scorche|sh wishes he could find some time to code with himself =/
23:55:28Casainhowhy I am getting this error? - this header files "AT91SAM9260.h" is used on another code and it builds perfect... don't know why trying to use it on RB gives that error
23:55:53linuxstbCasainho: Can you upload that file somewhere?
23:55:58gevaertsCasainho: have a look at where MATRIX_MCFG1 is defined
23:56:07bertrik_it's probably an #error that was intentionally put there, maybe you need to #define something first
23:57:04bertrik_have a look at the source code line, maybe there's some comment nearby explaining it

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