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#rockbox log for 2008-09-09

00:00:06soapoh, pixe lma beat me to the answer.
00:00:08webguest89ok tu
00:00:09webguest89ty
00:00:55 Quit webguest89 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:01:39MarcGuayIs there an SVN command for removing extra files? update/cleanup/revert didn't work.
00:02:21 Quit ender` (" "I want an Internet. Can I have one of those?" -- Spice Girl Mel B., aka Scary Spice during an AOL press conference, point")
00:02:26gevaertsMarcGuay: you can make a script based on svn stat
00:03:18Unhelpfulsvn revert needs an option to do that :/
00:03:34Zagortwiki lives again
00:03:47pixelmado you need an SVN command for that? If the revert didn't work I would think it wasn't SVN added in first place
00:04:21linuxstbMarcGuay: This should work: svn stat | grep ^\? | (while read a b ; do rm "$b" ; done)
00:04:24pixelmaZagor: good news :)
00:05:59LambdaCalculus37Zagor: Excellent. :)
00:06:28MarcGuayZagor: Are all of today's changes reverted or just the history?
00:06:37Qgartenheeh just wanted to say this too
00:08:07Qgartenjust history I think
00:08:25Qgarten10 most recent changes:
00:08:25Qgartendate: 08 Sep 2008 - 00:23
00:08:34 Join Bensawsome [0] (n=Bensawso@unaffiliated/bensawsome)
00:08:58 Join gregzx [0] (n=chatzill@dse93.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
00:11:21ZagorMarcGuay: I would think all of today's changes are gone
00:11:52 Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat")
00:12:04Zagor(yesterdays)
00:14:26markunI remember an email stating that we can't redistribute some of the icons we use. Does that still apply?
00:16:25 Join krazykit [0] (n=kkit@host-69-145-35-234.static.bresnan.net)
00:17:06 Join saratoga [0] (n=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-173608d0263aa271)
00:17:13kugelsaratoga: to late already
00:17:17kugeltoo*
00:17:27saratogai had an idea about noise shaping the sansa V1's flash read noise
00:17:35 Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@204.116.245.152)
00:17:38 Join webguest72 [0] (n=47afc5b0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-43c592e2ca750f99)
00:17:44saratogawho would be a good person to talk to about the sansa nand driver?
00:17:59webguest72helllo\
00:18:03webguest72?
00:18:05 Quit faemir ("Leaving")
00:18:08pixelmamarkun: I remember that as well, I think it was mentioned here shortly after DevCon
00:18:20webguest72Why isnt the games on my sansa e260 working
00:18:31webguest72i click it but it doesnt load
00:18:34markunpixelma: I tried to find it again with google but no luck
00:18:40webguest72help!
00:18:41saratogakugel: too late for what?
00:18:43markunmaybe we should sort it out before the release
00:18:53kugelsaratoga: not talking about my broken device
00:18:57Strife89webguest: I'd say you installed Rockbox improperly.
00:19:02 Quit Qgarten ()
00:19:16Strife89Try reinstalling it.
00:19:17markunwebguest72: maybe you updated rockbox and forgot to update the games
00:19:27kugelI mean, I already did
00:19:35webguest72thats why it isnt loading?
00:19:37webguest72like doom
00:19:47kugeldepends now if they're smart enough to google
00:19:47saratogakugel: I was thinking that for fuze and clip owners, it might be worth making a couple JTAG adapters and mailing them out
00:20:13saratogato encorage them to experiment without fear of breaking things
00:20:21 Quit rasher (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:21:17pixelmamarkun: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20080630#00:37:38 , unfortunately that paste at rafb seems to be expired
00:22:27markunpixelma: have you seen this lazka before or since?
00:23:10markunthe email said something like "you're using the tango icons which can't be shipped with rockbox, you can use the gnome icons instead" or something like that
00:23:16 Quit GodEater (Remote closed the connection)
00:23:16 Quit perrikwp (Remote closed the connection)
00:23:16 Quit shotofadds (Remote closed the connection)
00:24:03pixelmaI think he's a forum member too
00:24:46pixelmayep, last active 27th of May though
00:24:53markunpixelma: "Use of icons from the tango-icon-theme module must be attributed to the Tango Desktop Project."
00:25:05markundoes that mean we should just include them in the credits?
00:25:29 Join rasher [0] (n=rasher@0x5550f5a3.adsl.cybercity.dk)
00:25:47markunpixelma: from this site btw http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Desktop_Project
00:26:36 Join Zarggg [0] (n=z@65-78-69-194.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com)
00:26:46pixelmawasn't that mail because we are using some derivative work already? ...trying to remember
00:27:15saratogajhMikeS: ping
00:27:27 Join perrikwp [0] (i=d1a8d351@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-bf197d25cdf72f98)
00:27:38markunpixelma: why did they write this email to one of our users.. or did this guy make the icon set?
00:29:48 Quit massiveH ("Leaving")
00:30:05Zagorsince they don't specify any specific form of attribution, a mention in the credits feels apropriate
00:30:49 Quit herrwaldo ("Konversation terminated!")
00:31:05*LambdaCalculus37 has made a little more progress: http://pastebin.com/m4020f831
00:31:06 Quit Strife89 ("Bye./")
00:31:22pixelmaI _believe_ this lazka guy contacted the creator because of the "GPLv2 or later" move and pasted the answer and I think I remember it was along the lines that we weren't allowed to use it at all. But really, I'm not sure at all
00:32:13pixelmaare we using the 12x12 version from http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IconSets#Packaged_Icon_Sets ?
00:32:27 Join Ginger [0] (i=Jesse@c-67-161-156-252.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
00:32:51gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: looks good
00:33:44saratogadoes anyone know how reads from SD cards work?
00:33:54saratogai assume you have to read some minmum block size, but what is that size?
00:34:31kugelsaratoga: 19h runtime with your mp3 on cop patch (default settings, ~200kbit's album)
00:34:46Zagorpixelma: CC-BY-SA is incompatible with GPL but since these are separate media files and not mixed with GPL-licensed code it should not be a problem.
00:34:59kugelthough, tested with my build, with a build that only contains your patches, it'll probably be more
00:35:13LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Should I describe the menu?
00:35:34gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: from what I can see most of the other plugin chapters don't
00:35:54pixelmaZagor: I see no mention of a license in the 12x12 part
00:36:01saratogakugel: is that better or worse then without the COP patch?
00:36:10LinuxMafiahi
00:36:12kugelbetter
00:36:17saratogaalso is this the event driven version?
00:36:20LinuxMafiai can not mount my sansa e200
00:36:27LinuxMafiasome one plz help me out
00:36:35saratogakugel: sounds good :)
00:36:36LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Okay, let me add a few finishing touches and then I'll make a commit.
00:36:42pixelmaZagor: except that one part is taken from the tango icons project (which gives a license)
00:36:44LinuxMafiai fotmatted it but rockbox is still there
00:36:48kugelsaratoga: I also noticed that the cpu runs at 20% playing mp3, it's 50-60 without
00:37:10gevaertsLinuxMafia: what happens? What OS are you using?
00:37:20 Quit EspeonEefi (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:37:22LinuxMafiagevaerts, gentoo
00:37:30pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: could you also mention the alternate "fly" button and one sentence anout the menu (let's you chose level and quit) or something like this)?
00:37:38*gevaerts waits for the other part of the answer
00:37:39LinuxMafiagevaerts, it will be mount on windows , but not my linux any more
00:37:53LinuxMafiagevaerts, it is 2 days like that
00:38:03LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Alternate "fly" button?
00:38:15gevaertsIn that case it seems to me that there is something wrong with your gentoo install
00:38:33saratogakugel: this is the event driven patch or the old busywaiting one?
00:39:00LinuxMafiagevaerts, but i did not touch my gentoo , i did not update any thing, and it use to work 2 days ago
00:39:14LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Do you mean on the Ondio?
00:39:21pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: on many targets you can use one of two buttons to move the chopper - e.g. on Ondio that would be "Mode" additionally to "Up"
00:39:30pixelmait's not only the Ondio
00:39:38gevaertsLinuxMafia: in that case : what did you change on the player?
00:39:59gevaertsLinuxMafia: is it set to MSC mode?
00:40:09LinuxMafiagevaerts, nothing i just try to put a file and apperantly it was full
00:40:15LinuxMafiayeah it is MSC
00:40:22LambdaCalculus37pixelma: On the targets I have, there's only one fly button.
00:40:26gevaertsif you didn't change anything on either side, it would work
00:40:28LambdaCalculus37But I'll mention the Ondio.
00:40:41rasherpixelma: In that case, we're not living up to the "BY" part of the license. It should probably be in the theme config at the least
00:40:45pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: M5 it would be "Select" and "Up"
00:40:52 Quit chris2255 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:40:55rasherPossibly in CREDITS
00:41:13LinuxMafiagevaerts, this is why i am surprised
00:41:17LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Does that apply to the X5 as well?
00:41:28LinuxMafiagevaerts, even in safe mode it wont work
00:41:35gevaertssafe mode?
00:41:42gevaertsLinuxMafia: does it get a drive letter in windows?
00:41:44LinuxMafiayeah recovery more
00:41:47pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: X5 and M5 use the same keymap
00:41:50LinuxMafiayeah it does
00:41:54 Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:41:55LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Okay, I'll edit.
00:41:57LinuxMafiagevaerts, i want to format it
00:42:03LinuxMafiaand install rockbox again
00:42:13LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Added.
00:42:15gevaertswhat will that change?
00:42:41LinuxMafiagevaerts, nothing i formatted it , but rockbox still is there
00:42:58gevaertsThen you didn't format it
00:43:27pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: nice, thanks :)
00:43:57LinuxMafiagevaerts, i went to recovery mode and put file named sansa.fmt
00:44:08LinuxMafiagevaerts, and it showed formatting
00:44:22LinuxMafiabut rockbox boot loader still there
00:44:45gevaertsyes, the bootloader. That's not what you said earlier
00:45:31LinuxMafiagevaerts, i need to update the actual firmware too
00:45:38LinuxMafiai downloaded it
00:45:54LinuxMafiabut could not update it
00:46:25gevaertsLinuxMafia: why didn't you just follow the uninstallation instructions in the manual?
00:47:10LinuxMafiagevaerts, couse i could not mount the device
00:47:21LinuxMafiagevaerts, i installed it in linux
00:47:46 Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@STRATTON-FOUR-SIXTY-FIVE.MIT.EDU)
00:48:28gevaertsLinuxMafia: what happens if you plug it in while running linux?
00:48:52LinuxMafiagevaerts, nothing
00:48:58LinuxMafiait goes to rockbox
00:49:20LinuxMafiadmesg shows nothing
00:49:21gevaertsok, now is rockbox there or not?
00:49:29 Nick maha is now known as letron (i=juma@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xB9002659)
00:50:38 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
00:51:26LinuxMafiano
00:51:27 Quit bertrik_ (No route to host)
00:51:40LinuxMafiagevaerts, but i am tring to reinstall it in windows
00:52:06saratogamaybe you could explain exactly what is wrong, what is happening, and what you expect to happen because honestly I have no idea what you're even asking at this point
00:52:13MarcGuayHow does it "go to rockbox" if rockbox isn't there?
00:52:32saratogai mean if you can't explain whats wrong its kind of difficult to suggest a fix
00:53:16 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
00:54:03LinuxMafiasaratoga, before when i connect my sansa e200 , a pop up used to come saing sansa e200 .. , now nothing happens
00:54:15LinuxMafiaand dmesg does not show anything
00:54:23LinuxMafiai try to update kernel
00:54:28gevaertsAnd what happens on the e200 ?
00:54:42LinuxMafiajust tried to go to rockbox
00:55:00LinuxMafiabefore it used to go to the official one
00:55:51gevaertsAnd if you plug it in while running windows it works? Is that the same PC?
00:57:18LinuxMafiagevaerts, yeah but another laptop
00:57:22LinuxMafia i only use linux
00:57:35LinuxMafiathat one is my friends laptop
00:57:41MarcGuayLinuxMafia: So it tries to go to Rockbox but failed because it can't find it?
00:57:44gevaertsDo other usb devices still work on the same usb port?
00:57:52MarcGuay*tried
00:58:23 Quit webguest72 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:59:08LinuxMafiayeah
00:59:11LinuxMafiait works
00:59:20 Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@204.116.245.152)
00:59:26 Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]")
00:59:38LinuxMafiai tried other usb ports too
01:00
01:00:20gevaertsok. Make sure the sansa is not plugged in, and start it while holding "left". That should start the original firmware
01:00:40LinuxMafiagevaerts, i tried that too
01:00:56LinuxMafiathen connected it but still same thing
01:01:31Strife89!logbox
01:01:35Strife89!logbot
01:01:45Strife89Phooey....
01:02:08Strife89LinuxMafia: May I ask what the problem is?....
01:02:44LinuxMafiaStrife89, yeah sure , i can not mount my sansa e200 no more
01:02:57 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
01:03:00gevaertsLinuxMafia: is this on a laptop? Did you try all ports, or just some of them?
01:03:02LinuxMafiaStrife89, when i connect it dmesg shows nothing
01:03:17Strife89Hmmm.
01:03:22MarcGuayLinuxMafia: Can you boot into the Sansa firmware by hold left while it boots?
01:03:27LinuxMafiagevaerts, on my pc there is only gentoo and i tried all port
01:03:42 Part toffe82
01:03:47 Quit Ginger ("Leaving")
01:03:52Strife89The cable could be going bad.....
01:03:54gevaertsLinuxMafia: gentoo does not matter. I don't think this is a software issue
01:04:03LinuxMafiaMarcGuay, yeah , nothing looks wrong i can still play videos
01:04:19LinuxMafiaStrife89, i can mount it on windows
01:04:38MarcGuayLinuxMafia: And if you plug it in while in the Sansa firmware?
01:04:58advcomp2019LinuxMafia, i think gevaerts is right
01:05:04jhMikeSsaratoga: hey
01:05:05Strife89Are Windows and Linux on different machines?
01:05:38Strife89LinuxMafia: Are Windows and Linux on different machines?
01:06:02gevaertsStrife89: yes
01:06:09LinuxMafiaMarcGuay, still nothing happens
01:06:28LinuxMafiaStrife89, windows on laptop , gentoo on pc
01:06:38gevaertsLinuxMafia: from what I understand the e200 is not a very good USB device. Maybe yours just got a little bit worse, which caused incompatibility with your PC and not with the other one
01:06:47gevaertsDo you have a USB hub somewhere?
01:06:49LambdaCalculus37Small question... since Pacbox doesn't build on the c200, I want to exclude it from the manual. How can I do that?
01:06:55saratogajhMikeS: you wrote the Sansa SD driver right?
01:07:01 Join fdinel [0] (n=Miranda@modemcable204.232-203-24.mc.videotron.ca)
01:07:04LinuxMafiagevaerts, yeah this is what i use now
01:07:06gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: see plugins/main.tex
01:07:23gevaertsLinuxMafia: have you tried without it?
01:08:19LinuxMafiagevaerts, yeah i tried the back of pc
01:08:57Strife89LinuxMafia: Have you tested other USB devices? (Trying to be thorough here)
01:09:27gevaertsStrife89: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20080909 works...
01:09:51saratogaif it works in Windows in the OF, its obviously not a rockbox issue and this probably isn't the right place to ask for help
01:10:21LinuxMafiayeah
01:10:22LinuxMafiai did
01:11:00 Quit Bensawsome ("The awsome is gone :(")
01:11:48LinuxMafia10x guys
01:11:53LinuxMafiai try to update gentoo
01:11:53Strife89Wait, what USB mode is the OF in?
01:11:58LinuxMafiasee what happned
01:12:08saratogastop using the return key when you actually want to use a comma
01:12:12LinuxMafiaStrife89, it is set to MSC
01:12:15gevaertswon't help. It's a hardware issue
01:12:20jhMikeSsaratoga: no, I had a hand in the addition of SD cards and some rewriting to make it more tolerant
01:12:35 Nick letron is now known as maha (i=juma@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xB9002659)
01:12:39LinuxMafiagevaerts, but why it works on windows
01:12:54gevaertsLinuxMafia: it doesn't "work on windows". It works on another PC
01:13:02saratogajhMikeS: maybe you can tell me what the minimum efficient read unit is [sector, block, whatever]
01:13:27gevaertsIf you install windows on your PC, it still won't work. If you install linux on the other PC (or use a live CD), it will still work
01:13:36 Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
01:13:37jhMikeSsaratoga: 1 sector is the minimum it ever transfers
01:13:44saratogahow big is 1 sector?
01:13:48jhMikeS512 bytes
01:13:54saratogaand it reads how fast?
01:13:58Strife89gevaerts: All the same, why not try another Linux distro? We don't know for sure, 100%.....
01:14:25jhMikeSsaratoga: I don't know the actual rate but it's faster than the PP hard drives
01:14:31gevaertsWell, yes. The other option is that this gentoo install doesn't have USB drivers.
01:14:38 Join bobRoots [0] (n=buz@201.12.149.58)
01:14:41saratogaany rough idea how many sectors a second it can do?
01:14:42gevaertsBut then other USB devices wouldn't work
01:14:46jhMikeSI suppose test_disk would reveal that
01:14:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:14:52Strife89I say, when there's a problem, and you really want a solution, try every possible method, however far-fetched.
01:14:52 Part bobRoots ("[CyberScript]")
01:15:07mahacan i set my player to read the entirefile into ram before playing the song ?
01:15:37saratogajhMikeS: any chance its at least 10MB/s so that it can read 20k sectors a second?
01:15:38Strife89Doesn't Rockbox do that anyway?.....
01:16:03gevaertssaratoga: no. 4 or 5 at most
01:16:14gevaertsmaha: why?
01:16:17jhMikeSsaratoga: I just did a quick buffering test so that seems doubtful
01:16:19linuxstbmaha: No. What's the problem with the current way it works?
01:16:53linuxstbsaratoga: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DiskSpeed
01:17:07mahalinuxstb and gevaerts,i have a sansa e280 which has alot of background hiss caused by low quality build
01:17:28mahaeverytime the thng buffers, ill get some noise :/
01:18:03Strife89maha: That's an unfortunate problem with all Sansas, I believe......
01:18:23saratogajhMikeS: 10MB/s means we could modulate the read speed at 20khz, and noise shape most of the drive access noise out of the audiable band
01:18:24*jhMikeS got beat to the punch by linuxstb :)
01:18:59*gevaerts thinks that saratoga is slightly insane ;)
01:19:03Strife89maha: It seems the CPU lets some noise leak whenever it's processing.
01:19:10jhMikeSI think aligned reads just barely make the cut
01:19:10Strife89Correct me if I'm wrong.
01:19:11gevaertsNice idea though.
01:19:17saratogathat page says 9.7MB/s which is 19900 sectors a second
01:19:55gevaertssaratoga: actually, from what I understand the SD interface uses 32 byte blocks. I could be wrong though
01:20:09mahaStrife89 well, ok.. are there players which dont have leaks ?
01:20:15saratogaif we paused every other sector for the duration of the transfer time of one sector we would half the read speed, but shift much of the noise to ultrasonic frequencies
01:20:31*jhMikeS 's e260 isn't extremely noisy
01:20:41saratogathe noise depends on the headphones
01:20:48saratogaits rather loud on mine
01:20:51Strife89maha: Just about every other target doesn't have the noise problem as far as I'm aware.
01:20:57jhMikeS16-ohm headphones = more noise?
01:21:06saratogaits the sensitivity mainly
01:21:09mahawtf :/
01:21:20saratogahigher sensitivity means the noise power translates into higher acoustic power
01:21:26Strife89My Sansa c250 makes a little noise, but it does't bother me.
01:21:38mahathat SUCKS. i only bought this sansa cause it could run rb /:
01:21:53Strife89maha: Have you messed with the EQ?
01:21:58jhMikeSsaratoga: I've tested x5 remote ticking with 16-ohm vs. 32-ohm and 16-ohm makes it almost unsurpressable so that's why it came to mind
01:22:13mahaStrife89 nope..
01:22:33saratogaof course, 20k/sectors a second means we can modulate with at best a 10khz, meaning that some of the noise will remain in band
01:22:35mahai dont know how to get this noise into a wav so i could analyze it
01:22:39Strife89maha: Ah, never mind, then.
01:22:43jhMikeSsaratoga: Yes, I do know some are ridiculously efficient.
01:23:03Strife89maha: Line out to a PC sound card.....
01:23:22saratogaunless we could reduce the transfer time per sector, perhaps by exploiting the fact that half the time would be idle
01:23:24jhMikeSMost noise for me comes from the backlight however
01:23:28mahaStrife89 i dont have the required connectors :(
01:23:48Strife89maha: What do you mean?
01:23:58jhMikeSsaratoga: there was a note in the driver about issuing a certain command before a transfer
01:24:22mahaStrife89 its uh the input-output cable which i dont have
01:24:31saratogajhMikeS: I flipped through the dirver, but since I don't understand SD or how the rockbox disk driver interface works it didn't make the least bit of sense to me
01:24:34Strife89maha: Just get a dual male 1/8" cable. Hook one end into your Sansa and the other into the Line In or Microphone jack on your PC.
01:24:41jhMikeSsaratoga: one thing, is the noise problem unique to rockbox or are we trying to improve upon OF?
01:24:50saratogajhMikeS: its in both
01:24:56Strife89maha: The cables can be found almost anywhere, dirt-cheap.
01:25:21mahaStrife89 yeah, thats what dnt have.. and its too far for me to travelto a store
01:25:47jhMikeSsaratoga: I wonder if killing-off busy waiting that keep the core active and using interrupts to fill the FIFO would be an answer.
01:26:01Strife89maha: You might find one online.
01:26:23saratogajhMikeS: I don't get any noise unless a disk transfer is active, so I don't think the CPU matters much
01:26:53saratogais suspect its a lack of filtering between the DAC power supply line and the NAND/SD interface
01:27:22LambdaCalculus37Can someone tell me if this \nopt is correct? http://pastebin.com/m2c14274a
01:27:25saratogasince the noise is independent of amplifier volume, and thus likely riding in on the power line and not the DAC itself
01:27:36jhMikeSsaratoga: ah, ok. how would you modulate anything with any regularity?
01:28:13saratogaidle every other transfer for the duration of one average transfer
01:28:23saratogabefore sending the next read command
01:28:39MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: I've never don't a nested \nopt like that. Does it throw an error when you build?
01:29:18MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: And even if it worked I think you might need to move some braces around.
01:29:56jhMikeSsaratoga: I guess udelay is your friend there. It hardly seems much work to try it out.
01:30:20*MarcGuay scratches that last bit...
01:30:30Strife89Any of ya'll know of the Mikmod patch?
01:30:31saratogajhMikeS: could you suggest where the udelay needs to go and for how long?
01:31:08saratogai suppse 1/19900 of a second would be a good first guess for the delay
01:31:38jhMikeSsaratoga: in the FIFO block read loop?
01:31:43 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
01:32:09jhMikeSI guess 6uS
01:32:39jhMikeS19900*8 blocks / sec
01:32:51saratogajhMikeS: any reason the FIFO is 64 bytes and not 512 bytes?
01:33:02Strife89The Mikmod patch (FS #8806) works wonderfully well. :)
01:33:19jhMikeSsaratoga: it should be 16 2-byte words
01:33:34saratogaoh i assumed a word was 4 bytes
01:33:49saratogaso the interface uses 32 byte transfers but the nand itself is 512 byte?
01:33:50jhMikeSits half-word sized reads/writes
01:34:12jhMikeSThe NAND has configurable block size
01:34:13LambdaCalculus37Argh, why don't manuals build on my system!?
01:35:01saratogawould copy_read_sectors_fast be a good place for the delay?
01:35:04jhMikeSIt may have a minimum block size; that's somewhere in the spec somewhere
01:35:21jhMikeSsaratoga: could be, or in the loop that calls it
01:36:11saratogaso in theory we could blink this on and off at a faster rate by using smaller transfers then 512 bytes?
01:36:52jhMikeSin copy_read_sectors_fast it will work in 32-byte chunks
01:37:32saratogaeven better
01:38:34LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: I'm going to exclude adding the \nopt for Pacbox on the c200 manual for now and just commit what I have right now.
01:38:41 Quit Strife89 ("Bye, guys!")
01:38:49*LambdaCalculus37 will figure it out later and add it when he has a better understanding of it
01:39:43pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: I don't think that would work - did you test compile? If at all I'd expect it to look something like this: \opt{h1xx,m5,lcd_color}{\nopt{c200}{\input{plugins/pacbox.tex}}}
01:40:24pixelmayour \nopt looks definitely wrong. But as I said I'm not sure if nesting like this works in general, would need to try myself
01:41:39saratogajhMikeS: what is copy_read_sectors_fast actually copying from?
01:41:47saratogasome sort of internal buffer or bus?
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01:48:56jhMikeSsaratoga: from the buffer to the FIFO
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01:49:12jhMikeSerr...reverse that
01:50:22saratogawhat does the FIFO do exactly?
01:50:23jhMikeSThe FIFO starts at &DATA_REG (0x70008280)
01:50:32saratogaso its a hardware device?
01:50:45jhMikeSStores the last 16 words read in from the NAND
01:51:11jhMikeSit's a SoC hardware module, yes
01:51:29jhMikeSthere's also an external chip + actual NAND device
01:51:29saratogaso reading from the FIFO is as close to controling the NAND output as I can get?
01:51:51jhMikeSpretty much
01:52:10jhMikeSperhaps it's possible to clock it at another speed
01:53:03saratogaplaying with the timings and test_disk, it does seem that different transfer rates corrispond to significantly different pitches of noise
01:53:59saratogai guess the trick will be picking the one that gives ultrasound
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01:57:27jhMikeSI just wonder which part is the noisy bit−− the transfer or the commands?
01:58:16kugelsaratoga: the latest patch (v6), so the one with the events
01:58:23saratogaalright cool
01:58:30saratogagood to know theres an improvement in battery life
01:58:40saratogaany idea how much roughly
01:59:24saratogajhMikeS: it could be my imagintion, but it seemed like playing with delays did change the tone of the various disk tests, but i'll need to wiat until i have enough free time to sit around doing measurements and ffts to be sure
01:59:32kugelno, sorry. Although The last time I tested with my build (110~kbit/s OGG, NO default settings) I got 14h
01:59:36saratogasome of them were extremely high pitched too
01:59:42saratogaothers quite low pitched
02:00
02:00:09jhMikeSsaratoga: perhaps it is beats?
02:00:17saratogayes i think it does
02:00:38saratogathe actual noise spectrum is likely quite low frequency, and the duration of the pulse simply reshapes it across the spectrum
02:02:20MarcGuayRockbox Lawyers: Didn't senab keep this theme under a tighter license? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsGigabeatF#Slant_for_Gigabeat
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02:02:57LloreanSlant was under CC_by_NC last I heard, but people were going to talk to him about changing it.
02:04:19LloreanSomething to do with his use of it for school work too.
02:05:58saratogaactually, I guess it could be a high frequency noise too, and modulation already built into the SD controller as it transfers things shifts it down to base band
02:06:14saratogafixing this isn't going to be as simple as I'd imagined
02:07:04MarcGuayLlorean: I guess we assume that Mr. Kaufman he got permission?
02:07:08MarcGuay-he
02:07:08jhMikeSsaratoga: I hear ya. When is it ever? ;)
02:07:42LloreanMarcGuay: Try asking him maybe?
02:10:06MarcGuayLlorean: Looks like DeanMurray gave him permission.. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17445.0. Not sure what rights he has on it.
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02:10:47*jhMikeS still has to figure out how to make the 'beast charging super tolerant and picky at the same time :\
02:11:17linuxstbReading the forums, it seems that senab didn't explicitly say any license originally, and then decided on a restrictive license - http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10606.0
02:11:45saratogajhMikeS: also a dumb question, how do I adjust what the boost clock speed is on the Sansa? changing CPU_FREQ in config-e200 didn't seem to have the effect I expected when I tried it the other day
02:12:14linuxstbMarcGuay: I don't think DeanMurray has the right to grant rights to slant. We should just graveyard it IMO.
02:12:20MarcGuayjhMikeS: Is there any risk in using the S charging patch as it is?
02:12:22jhMikeSsaratoga: to change PLL settings?\
02:12:24LloreanMarcGuay: That on its own really isn't good enough. Try contacting Senab through the forums?
02:12:50jhMikeSMarcGuay: there shouldn't be any risk involved.
02:12:52LloreanjhMikeS: Why does it need to be super tolerant?
02:12:55saratogajhMikeS: i was timing the execution of loops and measuring power, and it didn't seem to change the timing or power consumption of a loop
02:12:57MarcGuaylinuxstb: Does the date that he switched the license matter or is it backwards compatible?
02:13:22linuxstbI don't think so, as he never explicitly mentioned a license before then (afaics)
02:13:48MarcGuayjhMikeS: I'll let you know if I find anything funky. Just rolled with it.
02:13:49jhMikeSLlorean: race conditions with plugging/unplugging are completely unavoidable so errors caused by that need to be detected and ignored
02:13:50LloreanMarcGuay: It matters, technically. Anything prior to the date he licensed it isn't under the old license, so if an image was removed prior to the change (for example) that image can't be reused.
02:14:12LloreanBut generally, I think it's safe to assume he meant the licensing retroactive unless he removed some stuff at the same time (logos of his or something)
02:14:57jhMikeSsaratoga: Changing the #define won't change the PLL setup.
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02:16:16saratogajhMikeS: ah figures, where is the correct thing to change?
02:17:06jhMikeSthe stuff in system-pp5022.c, the register settings if you want to mess with the clocks
02:18:00jhMikeS-> /firmware/target/arm/system-pp502x.c more precisely. there could be clocking registers specific to the SD interface as welel
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02:19:38webguest65help
02:19:48webguest65my sansa e260 isnt turning off :(
02:19:59webguest65screen is blank but the light is still on
02:20:16jhMikeShold power for 15 secs or so
02:21:07webguest65i tried that
02:21:11webguest65it doesnt work
02:21:34webguest65nvm thanks :D
02:21:53webguest65i cnt get doom to run in my e260
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02:23:29webguest28pls help!
02:23:50advcomp2019what is wrong with doom?
02:24:09webguest28it not loading
02:24:27webguest28i click doom folder and click doom2.wad rockdoom.wad ntohing
02:24:37LloreanThat's not how you run it.
02:24:40webguest28i also tried counterstrike in add ons
02:24:41LloreanHave you tried reading the manual?
02:24:59webguest28i downloaded it from this site hold on
02:25:19webguest28http://forums.pc-pad.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
02:25:24webguest28it has no manual
02:25:50saratogathats probably the most unreadible forum i've ever seen
02:25:50LloreanWell, our website has a manual for the official version of Rockbox
02:25:57LloreanIf you want to use someone else's information, ask them for help
02:26:50webguest28oh yeah how do i update my rockbox?
02:27:02LloreanAlso in the manual. Just install the newest version, as per the manual.
02:30:07webguest28i extracted the new rockbox into my sansa
02:35:22MarcGuaypixelma: Did you take a look a Lambda's dual-boot change? I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to condense the /opts. The only difference between the two sets of players is one button.
02:36:30pixelmano, I didn't. I'm currently fixing what he broke right now... ;)
02:36:44MarcGuaypixelma: Sounds familiar. :)
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02:50:46LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Thanks for the fix to the manual. I now owe you a beer. :)
02:51:11*pixelma wonders what she will get then
02:51:37*LambdaCalculus37 hands pixelma a pizza and a beer
02:51:40webguest28how do i record radio in rockbox?
02:51:54*LambdaCalculus37 also hands MarcGuay a pizza
02:51:58pixelmawebguest28: what player?
02:52:08webguest28idk
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02:52:18webguest28how do i tell?
02:52:27Lloreanwebguest28: What MP3 player do you have...
02:52:32webguest28sansa e260
02:52:42Lloreanwebguest28: And please read the channel guidelines, abbreviations like "idk" aren't welcome here.
02:52:50webguest28k
02:53:08pixelmadeer
02:53:33pixelmasorry typo...
02:53:41pixelmawebguest28: then you record radio from the recording screen, setting the source to "FM radio" or the like.
02:53:53Lloreanwebguest28: I'm pretty sure the manual covers recording as well. I may be wrong, but did you check?
02:54:39webguest28what button do i press to start recording?
02:55:51pixelmawhat does the recording section of the manual tell you?
02:56:41*LambdaCalculus37 adds his manual fixes to the 3.0 branch
02:58:12*pixelma will add fixes for LambdaCalculus37 fixes later then, currently test building anyways
02:59:06webguest28you know where i got gameboy emulator for sansa?
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02:59:40webguest28it says no roms in .rockbox/pacman
02:59:54LambdaCalculus37Well, then you have to get ROMs for it then. And don't ask us.
02:59:58Lloreanwebguest28: Look, you are expected to have read the manual.
03:00
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03:02:03LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: I mirrored your wording fix in the 3.0 branch.
03:04:02webguest28what is a demo for?
03:04:15webguest28there's a matrix one and a cube one
03:04:45Lloreanwebguest28: They're like screensavers.
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03:05:09webguest28cool
03:05:22webguest28how do i make it show when i not use sansa?
03:05:30LloreanYou can't.
03:05:43Llorean"Like screensavers" means "they aren't screensavers" otherwise I would've said "they're screensavers"
03:05:58webguest28so i just look at them?
03:06:05LloreanIf you want to.
03:06:11Unhelpfulwebguest28: really, it's more that many screensavers are like demos. look up "demo scene" on wikipedia if you don't get it
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03:17:18pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: btw., my version of the \opt and \nopt line for pacman works, which was when I found out that some manuals don't build. I'll commit a fix for the latter soonish but it's 3 a.m. here and I doubt I'll commit the other
03:18:46LambdaCalculus37pixelma: No problem.
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03:32:26webguest28does the cabbie v2 theme hav album art?
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03:35:48Unhelpfullook at the now playing screen?
03:36:20pixelmaUnhelpful: that was unhelpful if album art is not set up yet
03:36:22pixelma;)
03:36:37pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: I meant you could do that yourself if you want to
03:36:43pixelmawebguest28: yes
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03:51:05MarcGuayWhat's the story on the copyrightness of that little Rockbox logo with the 1/4 note on it again? We didn't use it for the default theme because the original artist couldn't be located?
03:52:43LloreanYes.
03:52:51LloreanIf memory serves, at least
03:54:39MarcGuayIt's being used a lot in the "clean" galleries and re-licensed.
03:54:56MarcGuayBeing a police officer must be the worst thing ever.
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03:56:17soapwhoa whoa
03:56:30*MarcGuay contemplates installing a single-bootloader on the Beast with the charging patch.
03:56:32LloreanMarcGuay: That's one of the nice things about "safe harbor" provisions.
03:56:52LloreanUnless someone reports a theme to us as being copyright infringing, we're assuming people have the right to license a theme as they have it licensed.
03:57:07LloreanBasically, you either have a choice to police everything, or not examine them at all unless someone reports them to you.
03:57:12soapI ASSume all licenses are valid, unless there is overwhelming evidence to me - a "lay man" that there is a violation.
03:57:49soapI thought I made that clear when I split the galleries.
03:58:07LloreanAs it stands, these people are asserting that they have a valid right to license it.
03:58:25LloreanSlant, I think, it an important one because the author has come forward in the past, on our site, and explicitly said he *couldn't* license in CC_by_SA
03:58:31soapand we have their "real name" ;)
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04:07:07*MarcGuay maintains that ScreamingOprah is the best/worst theme ever and await a lawsuit from the Queen of Daytime herself.
04:07:19MarcGuay*awaits
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04:47:03EddieFigany chance of zune getting rockbox anytime?
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05:20:52 Nick delt_away is now known as delt (i=1000@66.234.26.5)
05:20:54deltHello
05:21:38deltWhat files in the source code should i modify so that the firmware doesn't try to load .MOD files, but rather use the mikmod plugin to play them?
05:22:18delti edited out all references to MOD format i could find in firmware/id3.c and other files, and removed the codecs/mod.codec
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05:22:36deltthey still show up with that brownish "2 notes" icon
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05:27:34MarcGuaydelt: Perhaps searching the subversion history for keywords like "mod" will turn up the change that did the opposite of what you want. And you can simply revert that. Does Mikmod have an advantage over the codec?
05:27:48MarcGuaySearching the closed tracker tasks may also prove useful...
05:28:02deltyeah, more complete and less buggy
05:28:15deltand more consistent with playing other mod formats
05:28:33MarcGuayAre there bugs with the codec? Other mod's meaning .s3m/.it/etc?
05:28:42deltyeah sorry
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05:29:15deltbut let's say i want filenames ending with ".xyz" to be ignored by the firmware, and loaded by a plugin
05:29:33deltwhere would i remove the suffix ".xyz"
05:29:34delt&
05:29:36deltuh
05:29:36delt?
05:29:50MarcGuayNo reason to apologize. Try those paths I mentionned... I don't know without researching myself.
05:31:28delt... but you surely must know where are the file types "registered" to codecs? i'm not quite familiar with the rockbox architecture.
05:31:42MarcGuayFrom MajorChanges DONE 2008-05-21: MOD codec support added.
05:31:51MarcGuaydelt: No idea.
05:33:23deltthis seems like i would need to comment out or modify a single line of code, or a few at most...... but where??
05:33:34MarcGuayThe original patch: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8680
05:33:44MarcGuaydelt: Do some research and work backwards.
05:33:48deltthanks, looking at it now
05:34:11MarcGuayGood luck.
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05:34:54deltok, thanks
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05:41:58delt_awayDID IT!! apps/filetypes.c
05:42:07delt_away*slaps forehead*
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06:23:11VirtualX1hey, can someone help me install rockbox on my ipod?
06:23:28advcomp2019VirtualX1, what ipod
06:23:40VirtualX15G
06:23:45VirtualX130 GB
06:24:05advcomp2019did you read the manual?
06:24:18VirtualX1the current build wont unzip
06:24:42VirtualX1and yes, i have
06:25:36advcomp2019what do you mean by it will not unzip?
06:26:17VirtualX1i downloaded the current archive, and mac os x does not want to unzip it
06:26:52LloreanHave you tried using RBUtil?
06:27:29VirtualX1downloading it is wierd, maybe ill try another browser to download it
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06:27:53VirtualX1firefox is failing with downloading it
06:28:15VirtualX1oh wait
06:28:19VirtualX1saved it as
06:28:21VirtualX1:D
06:28:53VirtualX1well i guess that was pointless, sorry for the bother :/
06:28:58VirtualX1kind of a newb here
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09:29:43GodEaterhttp://gizmodo.com/5042072/a-sad-fact-the-ipods-clickwheel-must-die <−− an informative read, especially if you're at all interested in DAP UIs
09:33:02LloreanAt least we've got the "how many button presses minimum to listen to music" beat.
09:33:48GodEaterhehe yeah
09:33:55GodEaterit's "None" on my Rockbox :)
09:35:23ruskiewhy I like the ipod shuffle... no overly complicated junk...
09:35:34peturI hope they don't do the same menu analysis on Rockbox ;)
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09:35:54LloreanThere's really no practical way to drastically improve it without cutting options.
09:36:02LloreanAll you can do is try to guess where people are most likely to look for any given one.
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09:37:22ruskiewhy does it need: clock, calendar, games, contacts, alarms, notes, stopwatch etc...
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09:38:34GodEaterLlorean: haven't you already done similar with Rockbox's menus ?
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09:39:54LloreanI've done a little on my own. Others have discussed it much more, though the last time I looked at the proposal I honestly felt parts of it made things worse.
09:40:10GodEaterI just meant the map of the current menus
09:40:15GodEaternot an effort to improve them
09:40:40LloreanOh, no, I never mapped them. I considered doing it, and at the time found someone had already mapped them out fully at the time.
09:41:10*GodEater suspects it probably needs doing again
09:42:03LloreanMaybe I can make that a goal for 3.1, a reorganized menu system.
09:43:12LloreanWhich reminds me of a question I was curious about.
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09:43:43LloreanI seem to recall some players used software tone controls for bass and treble, any idea which those are?
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09:45:19pixelmathe Iaudios I believe, maybe others as well
09:45:52LloreanAh, and do those have a line out that's permanently at line-level?
09:47:25pixelmaseem to remember this so but I need to try because I'm not sure. Can give you the result soon.
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09:48:20LloreanI was just curious about Bass/Treble/Equalizer/Volume, and which targets get those for headphones, which for line out, and where they're different between targets.
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09:49:23pixelmavolume is definitely seperate
09:53:58pixelmathe only volume change I notice when adjusting from the WPS is that it mutes, as soon as it above that I get line level through the line-out
09:55:33LloreanI'm wondering if it would make sense to split "Sound Settings" into "Headphones" "Line Out" and "All Sound" and only show the options in each that only affect that category.
09:55:46LloreanFor example, on h120, you can't separate effects for Line Out vs Headphones
09:56:02LloreanWhile on the iPods I believe you can control the dock line out completely independently of the headphone output in all aspects.
09:56:26LloreanMeanwhile digital effects like the equalizer, I believe, go to both anyway since it's done before the audio gets to the DAC.
09:59:09peturon h1x0/h3x0, the headphone/line-out split is done at the end stage of the DAC (maybe the headphone amp is attached to the line-out?), so there's not much to split
09:59:39peturand what's wrong with controlling bass/treble on the line-out?
10:00
10:00:53Lloreanpetur: Nothing specific.
10:01:04LloreanMy point is more "its not clear to users which effects happen on a line out, and which don't"
10:01:12LloreanEspecially if it differs from target to target.
10:01:37LloreanAnd some simple sorting of the menus might help clarify this, at the cost (as always) of added complexity navigating them.
10:01:48peturif we split this up, it should only be done for targets where it matters...
10:02:33LloreanYes.
10:02:59LloreanIf all settings always apply, then you just have "Sound Settings" without a subcategory
10:03:46JdGordonarg, then we have #ifdef hell in the menus...
10:04:27pixelmawe could make one menu item simpler ... the bookmarks ;)
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10:04:45JdGordonwould be nicer if someone would fix the DSP so every setting works on every target, but the ones whic h can do it in hardware do it there, and the ones that cant do it in the DSP
10:05:02*JdGordon is working on bookmarks... sort of... not much rockbox time atm :(
10:05:23LloreanJdGordon: Even if every setting worked on all targets, ones that do it in hardware would inevitably not always do it the same.
10:05:40LloreanFor example, on iPods and iAudios "Volume" doesn't adjust the line out level, while on the H100/H300 it does adjust the line out level.
10:05:53JdGordon:(
10:06:24LloreanIn the future a target with an actual hardware EQ might choose not to apply it to the line out, or might even had an independent one for the line out
10:06:41LloreanLike I believe iPods have an independent gain we can set for the line out, we just currently set it at 0.
10:07:51peturwouldn't it be enough to have a different text description in the lang file for those targets?
10:08:22LloreanThat would help some, yeah.
10:09:39*Llorean wants to know if Bass/Treble affects line out on all targets.
10:10:09pixelmaon the Iaudio it does
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10:12:30LloreanAnd Gigabeat and H100
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10:29:15tucozHi, if someone wants to update some missing things for the manual i have tried to sum up some showstoppers here: http://pastebin.com/m21bd966a
10:38:18JdGordoncan we remove the "Broekn themes" sticky in the forums yet?
10:39:07Lloreanyeah, I'd say so.
10:39:14*Llorean dislikes stickies.
10:39:35tucozexcept forum guidelines? ;)
10:39:39JdGordonthey are good... but its been 2 months so I think its fair enough to remove it
10:39:51Lloreantucoz: I think, generally, the more you have the less likely people are to read any of 'em.
10:40:01LloreanYou can get away with maybe up to 3 before people start just ignoring them entirely.
10:40:38tucozi know. i think i work that way myself
10:41:12LloreanSo I've tried to keep the number down to as few as possible, but some sections just end up with more than others.
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10:56:43amiconnLlorean: It does on most targets, but not on all
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10:57:23Lloreanamiconn: That's about what I suspected.
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11:04:30PaulJamhi, were there recently changes in rockbox that could have affected the H300 non-LCD remote?
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11:10:41PaulJamnevermind, the remote misbehaves with an older build too, so it is probably a hardware issue. Seems like my player is sowly falling apart :(
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11:39:56preglowamiconn: i expect i need to be able to record stuff on my nano to be able to test your work?
11:42:51*JdGordon doesnt like people who come and make 15 bug reports... (Jaykay)
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12:14:03*Llorean doesn't like people who make a half dozen bug reports, and mark them as "all targets" even when they're very target specific like battery lifetime.
12:15:28JdGordonwell "all targets" is the default...
12:15:46LloreanHe took the time to change other values, though
12:16:09LloreanOr... maybe he didn't.
12:17:11gevaertsHe did. The bug about settings isn't marked Settings
12:17:50LloreanHah. Lovely
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12:43:16preglowis changing the system->limits menu items still supposed to ask the user to reboot, but actually doesn't, or did that get fixed?
12:43:29preglowi remember i could make rockbox crash changing that before
12:45:18Havienmine didn't ask to reboot
12:48:51preglowno, it doesn't, and that might be a bug, can't look at the code atm
12:49:07preglowbefore it just changed the limit variables, but not the allocated memory, giving weird results
12:49:24Havienhmm
12:53:21Lloreanpreglow: I have some memory of the weirdness being fixed, but I'm not sure
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13:05:46gevaertsB4gder: I noticed that your buildall script also builds some non-release ports. Is this intentional?
13:06:10B4gderI didn't bother to fix it, it was copied from the daily build script
13:07:01gevaertsok
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13:24:20gevaertsIf we want to release soon, maybe it's time to get out sticks to hit people who don't edit the release notes
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13:24:37t0mashi
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13:26:22markunhi t0mas!
13:26:37*gevaerts waves
13:27:21markunt0mas: long time no see :)
13:27:22t0mas:D
13:27:49markunt0mas: what brings you here?
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13:29:11t0masno real purpose.. just wondering how Rockbox was doing
13:30:05B4gderwe still maintain the illusion there will be a 3.0 release!
13:31:17linuxstbHave we decided which targets will be in the 3.0 release? Or rather, which targets with current builds will be excluded?
13:31:38B4gdernot really, no
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13:39:07LloreanIt'll probably just happen similar to how the feature freeze started.
13:39:44LloreanA few of us wait for the rest of you guys to be asleep, then declare our own list of targets when there's nobody around to object to it. :-P
13:40:04*gevaerts will stay awake the entire week
13:40:14LloreanThough as far as I'm aware it's only really a matter of discussion for a couple players anyway.
13:40:19*B4gder will just wipe the server clean
13:40:44LloreanWe could just post to -dev or such and have a quick vote on 1G2G and iAudio M3 was it?
13:41:07B4gderyes, at least one of the two users might reply :-]
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13:41:20B4gder*g*
13:41:31gevaertsB4gder: need help? I can click on links if you need to
13:41:41B4gderthanks!
13:41:53LloreanI think it's pretty safe to leave out both of those.
13:42:07LloreanThey have quirks that I think go beyond "quirk" to "significant annoyance to regular users"
13:43:10LloreanAnd userbases so small it's possible nobody will even notice they were left out.
13:43:26gevaertsI think the lack of manual for the M3 alone is enough to disqualify it
13:43:34B4gderah indeed
13:44:01LloreanThat is a pretty major point against it. :)
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13:45:23*linuxstb would have liked all current builds to be included, but the lack of users likely to notice is a strong enough argument...
13:45:47Lloreanlinuxstb: The M3 requires shenanigans in order to charge at all.
13:46:01LloreanIt doesn't really even have a normally accessible OF charging, or ability to charge while off IIUC.
13:46:16pixelmaand it's not properly documented...
13:46:30linuxstbYes, the lack of a manual is a show-stopper in itself.
13:46:35pixelmathe charging trick I meant
13:46:37*B4gder pushes M3 out of the warm and comfy release pool
13:46:44gevaertsSo it's in about the same state as the beast
13:47:29Lloreangevaerts: At least the beast can be made dual boot, then charged easily.
13:47:49LloreanNot for the regular user, I'll admit. But it's at least possible.
13:48:11B4gderwell, I'd say a manual is a requirement for release
13:48:22gevaertsLlorean: exactly, and we don't even consider that port done
13:48:22*Llorean kinda likes the bootloader cookie idea for the 1G2G as a way to make them behave at least in a way a user can figure out.
13:49:07pixelmaI don't see much difference in knowing how to boot into the OF for charging (and that you need to) and knowing how to get to the charging mode on M3 - you just need the howto on both
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13:50:37gevaertsIf the charging is documented, it can be released and supported. But there's no manual to document it in...
13:51:48LloreanThe charging requires the presence of a PC even though it has a separate charger, right?
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13:53:26pixelmayes, IIRC one needs to insert the charger while connected to USB. Then you can disconnect USB and it'll stay in the OF's charging screen
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13:54:15pixelmayou could also charge from USB but this is slow because the OF keeps the disk spinning during the USB data connection
13:57:23amiconnActually it's not the OF, but the cowon loader. M3/M5/X5 have no dualboot
13:59:00peturwasn't there a dualboot proposal for X5?
13:59:13petura new one, that is - less hackish
13:59:17pixelmayep, even a patch
14:00
14:00:34*Llorean brought it up at DevCon, or tried to.
14:01:02LloreanI think LinusN said he wanted to look at it, see exactly what it was doing, but got distracted by the H300 issues.
14:01:55B4gderwe need monthly devcons!
14:03:17LloreanQuarterly release planning DevCons! We split the difference.
14:03:31*petur gives Llorean an angry look. Don't blame h300
14:04:54Lloreanpetur: I'm not blaming it. It certainly takes higher priority.
14:05:06LloreanGoal 1 of the bootloader is to actually boot. Our X5 one at least does that still. :)
14:05:14LloreanActually, maybe it doesn't.
14:05:25*Llorean doesn't actually know about current SVN builds of it.
14:06:29gevaertsLlorean: it does
14:06:46LloreanGood to know.
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14:06:51LloreanSo see, H300 is much more important
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14:59:05*linuxstb moves here from #rockbox-community and would agree that FS #9354 is a bug, or at the very least a questionable design choice - fade should/could happen in the background, not controlled by the UI thread in a blocking way
14:59:29LinusNthat is a remnant from the archos days
14:59:37LinusNa hack
14:59:51linuxstbYes, I realise that.
14:59:58*Llorean personally really hates the fade.
14:59:59LloreanOh.
15:00
15:00:08LloreanFor 3.0, do we want to consider changing some of the setting defaults?
15:00:28LloreanFor example, a default of dircache on, or a higher amount for the max dirsize, or fade being disabled by default?
15:01:20linuxstbI wouldn't object - people have long been suggesting dircache should be on by default. I also think any database-related settings should be set to make database use as automatic as possible.
15:01:26LinusNhigher dirsize on modern targets is a good idea
15:01:38LinusNi agree
15:01:46LloreanI think if dircache is good enough that we're willing to include it in the release, it's good enough to be enabled by default even if it has a few quirks.
15:02:25linuxstbWhat is the current dirsize? 400?
15:02:28LloreanAnd I think database should have everything default set up to be automatic so all a user needs to do is initialize it the first time.
15:02:30LloreanI believe so.
15:02:33linuxstbAnd that affects playlist size as well?
15:02:39LloreanPlaylist size is separate.
15:02:48LloreanI think.
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15:03:14*Llorean thinks 10000 is a good playlist max, with 20000 for the 64MB targets since we know they're likely to have more disk space.
15:03:23LloreanPeople seem to like to shuffle all files.
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15:07:32LloreanWhile I like the idea of keeping the binary slim where possible, I don't think it's necessarily bad to waste RAM by setting limits too high so that people who don't know better at least are much, much less likely to run into the limits, and can lower those limits for the small performance gains they may offer.
15:07:52LinusNi agree totally
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15:16:11BlueAidan_workdoes the rockbox firmware support reading from ntfs? (i.e., formatting the ipod to ntfs)?
15:16:16LloreanJdGordon: Maybe change it to "Later" instead of "Won't fix"?
15:16:18LloreanBlueAidan_work: No.
15:16:32BlueAidan_worksigh
15:16:38BlueAidan_workah well
15:16:47LloreanWhy do you need NTFS?
15:17:24BlueAidan_workfat32 sucks... having to run chkdsk on 80GB right now
15:17:34BlueAidan_worksomehow corrupted itself
15:17:44LloreanDisks don't really corrupt themselves.
15:18:09LloreanSomething has to happen, somewhere. Bad software can corrupt any sort of filesystem. So can hardware failures, or interrupted transfers, or etc.
15:18:31BlueAidan_workall I can say is that it went from working fine to no music / errors when copying in one day
15:18:54LloreanMeanwhile, MP3 players are, mostly, read-often-write-few devices and the extra overhead of a more complex filesystem is pretty wasteful.
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15:24:26GodEaterLlorean: which is why Microsoft implemented TFAT
15:24:32GodEaterNTFS is just overkill for a DAP
15:24:51GodEaternow if only there was an OSS implementation of TFAT ;
15:24:53GodEater:)
15:24:53linuxstbIsn't part of the Beast problem that host OSes don't support TFAT?
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15:25:00linuxstbNot even Windows...
15:25:10GodEaterlinuxstb: all my boxen appear to read it ok
15:25:30GodEaterit's only Rockbox itself which is unhappy :(
15:25:31linuxstbYou never get errors where the OF insists on a recovery/
15:25:32LloreanWell, TFAT occurs on top of exFAT right?
15:25:50LloreanAccording to Microsoft's knowledge base thingy, at least.
15:26:11LambdaCalculus37Llorean: I believe so.
15:26:18*LambdaCalculus37 checks MS's knowledge base
15:26:19*Llorean notes that Windows Vista tried to make him reformat his USB thumb stick as exFAT.
15:26:32LloreanOr was it one of my external drives.
15:26:43GodEaterlinuxstb: except in my case the OF says "I'm going to recover", and then never does.
15:27:39LambdaCalculus37GodEater: You fell victim to the OF wiping everything away, too?
15:27:49GodEaterLambdaCalculus37: that's happened to me twice now
15:27:54*linuxstb suspects the Beast will never be completely happy until we reflash it with our own bootloader, assuming we can...
15:28:00GodEaterwhat's going on at the moment though is that Rockbox refuses to start
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15:28:13GodEaterthe bootloader says "File not found" and gives up
15:28:35GodEaterwhile both Windows and Linux can see the .rockbox dir and it's contents just fine over USB.
15:28:42GodEaterso our ATA driver is working at least ;)
15:28:52*LambdaCalculus37 hopes that we can get that damn charging code into the Gigabeat S port, so we can finally be rid of the OF
15:29:11pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: re. one of your forum posts - I'm not sure and never tried myself but for some reason I think I read that mp3s copied over to a Sansa in MTP mode wouldn't work in Rockbox
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15:29:29GodEaterI side with linuxstb here, I think we need to flash it, if at all possible
15:29:43GodEaterpixelma: I've read that too
15:30:02GodEaterno idea if it's true though
15:30:09LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Files transferred via MTP are stuck into a hidden folder on the Sansa, and are easily discoverable.
15:30:35LambdaCalculus37The Gigabeat S does a similar thing: all content transferred via MTP is just simply shuffled into a /Content folder on the root of the main partition.
15:30:37pixelmanah, the Music folder is always hidden even if you use MSC mode
15:31:18GodEaterLambdaCalculus37: they're not being DRM'd on the fly are they like on the Gigabeat F's OF ?
15:31:34LambdaCalculus37GodEater: Nope.
15:32:10LambdaCalculus37But IIRC the only difference is that the folder isn't hidden on the S.
15:32:20GodEaterdoesn't appear to be certainly
15:32:40LambdaCalculus37GodEater: Hey, it's been a while. :P
15:32:53*GodEater 's S is a glorified HD at the moment
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15:33:04Unhelpfulyou can reformat the S as regular FAT32 if the parameters are right
15:33:11Nico_PLambdaCalculus37: in http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseNotes30#What_s_new you added a mention about new codecs... AFAIK 2.5 only supported HWCODEC targets, so there only was MP3 support
15:33:16Unhelpfulif they're not right, the OF bootloader will reformat it as TFAT for you.
15:33:18GodEaterUnhelpful: do you happen to know what those parameters are then ?
15:33:30LambdaCalculus37Nico_P: Want me to add the other codecs?
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15:34:12Unhelpfuli do: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatSInstallation#Formatting_the_storage_partition
15:34:21Nico_PLambdaCalculus37: not really. I think it would be more appropriate to say support was added for SWCODEC targets, with the abitility to play back a multitude of codecs
15:34:28Nico_Ps/codecs/file types
15:34:31LambdaCalculus37Nico_P: Editing now.
15:34:41Unhelpful512k sectors, 64k clusters, volume label "TFAT"
15:34:54pixelmaI remember that Rockbox didn't find the 4 or 5 example songs which came with my c250
15:35:18pixelmabut I don't know whether they were DRM'ed
15:35:21Unhelpfulfor me, anyway, formatting FAT32 seems to solve the bootloader-can't-find-rockbox issue
15:35:35LambdaCalculus37pixelma: I threw that folder out on my c240 when I got it.
15:35:40LambdaCalculus37So I don't remember.
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15:36:42LambdaCalculus37Nico_P: Fixed it up; wanna check it out?
15:37:18amiconnUnhelpful: 512*k* sectors??
15:38:33Unhelpfulguh. my bad.
15:38:53Unhelpful512B sectors, 64KiB clusters, to be precise :/
15:38:53*LambdaCalculus37 edits his forum post to clarify MTP mode
15:39:02Nico_PLambdaCalculus37: I think that's better
15:39:33Nico_Pthe what's new section is going to be extremely long :)
15:39:59amiconn64K clusters is an extension microsoft once invented (for NT4, in order to push the fat16 limit a bit, fat32 did not exist yet) but discourages nowadays...
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15:40:36Unhelpfulamiconn: i tried 512B sectors. i didn't try in between. since there's nothing on it right now anyway, i could test smaller sizes
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15:49:52Unhelpfulactually, that'll be 32KiB clusters. it's 64 sectors/cluster.
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15:50:33jeroen-can anyone help me with putting wikipedia on my ipod g5?
15:50:34kkurbjungevaerts: did you get my email?
15:50:42jeroen-using http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/4755
15:51:04gevaertskkurbjun: yes. I'll look into it tonight
15:51:16jeroen-I understand compiling ans such and I'm running kubuntu hardu, but I don't where to start on http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/4755
15:51:55kkurbjungreat, let me know how it turns out
15:52:16jeroen-there are .zip's .tar.gz's , .diff's, .c's etc
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15:52:50linuxstbjeroen-: Reading the last comments, it would appear that the patch is out of sync with the current version of Rockbox, so you'll either need to fix that (which requires C programming skills), or use an old version of Rockbox (one from the same day as the patch).
15:53:10linuxstbjeroen-: This page explains how to use patches - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WorkingWithPatches
15:53:15gevaertskkurbjun: I will
15:53:47jeroen-linuxstb: are you sure, it's only one saying that
15:54:17jeroen-but thanks anyhow
15:54:27linuxstbjeroen-: No - feel free to try yourself...
15:54:54jeroen-linuxstb: so I only have to use the latest patchfile
15:55:06jeroen-all the tar.gz's and zip's are not needed?
15:55:52Unhelpful16KiB and 8KiB clusters both trigger OF format. i think i'll quit at that
15:57:41linuxstbjeroen-: I've never looked at that patch, but I'm guessing the .tar.gz and/or .zips are the actual dumps of wikipedia. You'll need that in addition to a patched version of Rockbox (which is what the .diff does)
15:58:21jeroen-I understand
15:58:29markunkkurbjun, gevaerts: what are you working on?
15:58:36jeroen-but I also understand that I have recompile rockbox myself
15:58:40linuxstbjeroen-: It's not an official part of Rockbox, so you may have more luck seeking help elsewhere - e.g. the misticriver thread linked in the very first post, or google...
15:59:44jeroen-yes and I don't have the time to fiddle with this
16:00
16:00:10jeroen-maybe only putting the text files from the dutch wikipedia is a temp. workarounf
16:00:11B4gderok, I'm off now and back again on the 18th
16:00:12jeroen-d
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16:01:27kkurbjunmarkun: the gigabeat F bootloader is apparently broken on some players (if not all). I have work that I have not committed on the bootloader (which works for me) and gevaerts has a player where the bootloader is not working. He is going to see if the build I have works for him
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16:39:31pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: Rockbox does not find the album I just copied to my c200 in MTP mode, using WMP (and it was not nice, really). In contrast WMP found the 5 original example songs still on my Sansa - the only thing I didn't delete yet is the system folder which contains a subfolder called "MTP data" ...
16:40:32pixelmaerr "mtpcontent"
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16:44:58AndyCRI'm considering getting a sansa e260, but I hear that there are two revisions, one which works with rockbox and onw which doesn't. How do I make sure I get the correct revision?
16:45:17dionoeayou check the firmware version number
16:45:48dionoeav1 is 1.* and v2 is 3.* if i remember correctly
16:46:03GodEaterv1 is the one you want
16:46:10GodEaterv2 doesn't work with Rockbox (yet)
16:46:29AndyCRIs there any way to tell before buying?
16:46:39AndyCROutward appearance changes, etc?
16:47:09dionoeanot that I know
16:47:15dionoearecent versions tend to be v2
16:47:30dionoeaalthough I bough a new v1 3 months ago in the netherlands
16:48:10GodEaterthe firmware revision is the only reliable way to tell
16:48:31AndyCRSince the only reason I would buy the device would be because of rockbox support, perhaps the best way is to buy one used and have the person check the firmware for me before I buy it
16:48:41dionoeathat sounds like a good idea
16:48:43{phoenix}I've bought unfortunately the v2. On the box you can't can see this
16:48:57AndyCRDo you know how close support for the v2 model is to being implemented?
16:49:14AndyCRI hear Sandisk freely gave specs for v1, but then changed it's mind with v2
16:49:45{phoenix}but I can see on the back of the mp3-player: model: e260v2
16:50:26AndyCRah, interesting
16:50:32gevaertsAndyCR: if you're in the US, have a look at www.froobi.com. They sell refurbished players and they test for v1 vs v2
16:50:33GodEater<{phoenix}> even that is unreliable though
16:50:42GodEaterwe've had people find v1 in a v2 case
16:50:45GodEaterand vice-versa
16:50:49AndyCRgevaerts: Thanks
16:50:58gevaertsAndyCR: and sandisk never gave specs. They only gave some players
16:51:12GodEateralso - we don't give ETAs on when ports will be ready, since it's not possible.
16:51:49LambdaCalculus37pixelma: Thanks for testing. :)
16:51:58LambdaCalculus37I'm sorry you had to put up with WMP.
16:55:27AndyCRalso, I'm curious about the development process
16:55:44AndyCROne of the reasons I want to use rockbox is because it's open source
16:55:56AndyCRIn your experience, is the source pretty clean and interesting to tweak?
16:56:02svpetake a look at flyspray and the svn repository then :)
16:56:19LambdaCalculus37AndyCR: If we wrote it, we should know, right? ;)
16:56:20AndyCRThanks, I'll look
16:56:26GodEaterbits of the code are clean, bits of it are less so ;)
16:56:33svpeimho it's quite nice. (and i didn't wrote it :p)
16:56:37Nico_PAndyCR: iin my experience, the source is nice and clean :)
16:56:39GodEater*cough*playback.c*cough*
16:56:43AndyCR:)
16:56:46LambdaCalculus37There's some spots that do need some fixing up.
16:56:48AndyCRSo what compiler do you use?
16:56:53LambdaCalculus37gcc.
16:57:06Nico_PGodEater: hehe, it has gotten better
16:57:10AndyCRDo you have to do development from Linux, or can you compile from Windows as well?
16:57:16GodEaterNico_P: still not bug free though right ? :)
16:57:22Nico_Pnot quite
16:57:34GodEaterAndyCR: you need a posix like environment
16:57:42GodEaterwhich on windows means one of three options
16:57:47GodEatercygwin, vmware, or colinux
16:57:59AndyCRThanks. I'll check out the source
16:58:25AndyCRI don't suppose there's an emulator of some kind to test rockbox on a PC?
16:58:33GodEateryes :)
16:58:39GodEaterwe have simulator builds
16:58:42AndyCR:) You seem to have all the bases covered
16:58:57GodEateranyone know if rasher's builds are up to date ?
16:59:07LambdaCalculus37AndyCR: Always gotta be prepared, y'know? ;)
16:59:20GodEaterAndyCR: rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator/">http://www.rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator/ <−− there you go
16:59:27GodEater(I assume from your question that you're on windows)
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17:00:22AndyCRthanks
17:01:17*GodEater wonders if Nico_P is the only person who thinks playback.c is "nice and clean" these days
17:02:20Nico_PGodEater: it certainly isn't, but it has gotten more manageable
17:02:40GodEatergood to know
17:02:40Nico_Pthere is still a long way to go before it can be said to be nice and clean
17:03:04GodEaterbut it's just awful now, instead of truly abysmal ? :)
17:05:06Nico_Pyou got it ;)
17:05:12*GodEater is well aware of course that any improvement at all has been down to the blood, sweat and tears of Nico_P and is in awe of it :)
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17:08:40Nico_P:)
17:09:04Unhelpfuljust rewrite it in whitespace. couldn't be cleaner.
17:10:38dionoeaThat's a very unhelpful comment :)
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17:17:52AndyCRRunning the simulator, and it's very nice. I like it a lot. I do have an issue, though. If I select a video file, it plays the audio from it in the audio player but no video. Is that just a simulator issue? It seems like it's just a plugin missing
17:18:43LambdaCalculus37AndyCR: The Mpegplayer plugin is included with every build that supports it. What kind of video file are you trying to play?
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17:19:20AndyCRLambdaCalculus37: I tried an MP4 file and an AVI file
17:19:29AndyCRThe AVI file didn't show up in the file browser
17:19:30GodEaterRockbox only supports Mpeg1/2
17:19:32skatteolaI'm having some trouble with using meizu_dfu for my meizu m6 on an ibook running osx.. any known limitations? :)
17:19:38AndyCRAh. That's why. Thanks.
17:20:05GodEaterand .mp4 is one of the extensions rockbox expects for aac files iirc
17:20:16skatteolaMaybe just the fact that I'm trying to load a m6sl rockboot.ebn on it? :p
17:20:37markunskatteola: is it a PPC ibook?
17:20:51skatteolayeah, it is.. endian trouble?
17:20:56markunyes
17:20:57LambdaCalculus37AndyCR: There's a page on the wiki explaining the Mpegplayer plugin, and also how you can transcode videos to the proper MPEG1/2 format Rockbox uses.
17:21:13GodEaterAndyCR: we even recommend a couple of tools for doing that
17:21:18markunskatteola: I fixed it on my ibook (running linux) but forgot to commit
17:21:30markunI'll try to do it tonight
17:21:32AndyCRI also tried WMV, which I assume it thought was just straight WMA
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17:21:42AndyCRThanks
17:21:42GodEaterpossibly
17:21:44skatteolaah, ok, sounds great :) thanks
17:21:51LambdaCalculus37AndyCR: No problem. :)
17:22:16LambdaCalculus37markun: On that note, I was also having some trouble with meizu_dfu on my PowerBook as well (PPC).
17:22:26markunskatteola: btw, I had to make some changes on my PC running FreeBSD, so you might get into the same problems
17:22:56markunLambdaCalculus37: any luck with the nano yet?
17:23:28skatteolaWhat kind of changes? It seems to progress nicely until it comes to the "while (dfu_ret[4] != 0x07)" loop after having written the file
17:23:47markunskatteola: I had to disable the get_cpu() calls
17:23:55LambdaCalculus37markun: Can't do anything with the endian troubles with meizu_dfu, and I haven't had a chance to try an alternate solution yet.
17:24:16markunso if you get past that I guess it's just the endian issue
17:24:26markunskatteola: are you planning to work on the port?
17:24:35skatteolathe get_cpu() calls seems to be working fine indeed
17:25:05gevaertsmarkun: I'm pretty sure the get_cpu()s are not needed, except of course if you want to use the result
17:25:35skatteolaI'm certainly somewhat interested in it, but both knowledge and time might be in a bit lacking at the moment so at this time I'm just interested in getting the toolchain and all working I guess :)
17:26:09LambdaCalculus37skatteola: You can always help us test out code. :)
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17:26:51skatteolaSure :)
17:29:46skatteolaAlso, meizu_dfu completely hangs (and leaves a process in uninterruptible wait) if you start it after having let go of both power and the "m" button. This seems to happen at usb_find_devices() though, so I guess that's more of a libusb issue?
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17:29:59skatteolaOr osx issue, possibly
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17:34:11markunskatteola: you have an M6SP?
17:34:19skatteolaYeah
17:34:52markungevaerts and I both have have the SL, there you don't need to keep M pressed
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17:35:06markunmaybe wpyh knows more about it
17:37:12skatteolaJust tried again to be sure, and it does indeed hang
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17:44:31AndyCRI got video working, thanks
17:45:12AndyCROn a side note, is smooth video possible, or is the hardware just too low-powered to manage it? I notice the video is a bit choppy; not unusably so, just curious whether it can be improved
17:45:27AndyCR(Through some kind of encoding trick, etc.)
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17:51:09LambdaCalculus37AndyCR: Some of the supported platforms (PortalPlayer-based targets like the iPod, for example) aren't powerful enough to handle video playback at full speed.
17:51:26LambdaCalculus37The iPod video is especially slow at video playback.
17:55:44AndyCRI'm running the Sansa E200 simulator
17:55:52Unhelpfulfor iPod video you're really better off using the official firmware for video playback
17:58:23markunAndyCR: better try it on the e200 itself
17:59:23LambdaCalculus37AndyCR: markun is right. The hardware itself will give you a much better estimate of video performance.
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18:00:26AndyCRI wondered whether that was the case
18:00:38AndyCRIs it almost certainly better on the device itself?
18:00:43AndyCROr could it be worse?
18:01:45AndyCRThe manufacturer firmware uses some terrible "motion jpeg" format that I'm extremely leery of, so i would much prefer to use rockbox if it's at all possible
18:02:43LambdaCalculus37AndyCR: On the e200, I would give it a 3.5 out of 5 (my honest opinion). Not to shabby for animation, but may not be so great for live-action stuff.
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18:03:15LambdaCalculus37AndyCR: But it's up to you, the user, to form an opinion on it.
18:03:56AndyCRMy planned usage is mostly MP3's and a few TV episodes when trapped on a plane, bus, etc. Can you watch it for an hour without getting a headache?
18:04:09AndyCR(Though I wonder whether the battery would hold out for that kind of usage...)
18:05:01LambdaCalculus37AndyCR: It all depends. Some people can, and some can't. There's not really a set "everyone can take it" on watching videos on the Sansa's screen.
18:05:44markunAndyCR: here you can see what kind of framerate to expect: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer#Performance
18:05:56AndyCRI see they're about $40 used, so it's a good deal if it's decent
18:06:00markunso 27fps with the fullscreen video
18:06:31AndyCRmarkun: Thanks. 27 is perfect.
18:06:48AndyCRJust about cable TV framerate, if I'm not mistaken
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18:07:26markunAndyCR: it will fluctuate a bit. Some scenes are easier to decode than others. And if the CPU can't keep up it will just skip a frame
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18:49:40AndyCRThanks for all the help
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18:50:20*gevaerts should really stop touching players until 3.0 is released
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18:55:32RotlausHi, someone here who can help me get unsubscribed from the mailing lists? The Web Interface doesn't send me the unsubscribe mail.
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19:51:20PaulJamI just found out, that my problem with the remote that i mentioned this morning was caused by my crappy soldering skills. So it was no rockbox issue.
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20:11:18*gevaerts wonders if he's supposed to confuse playback so easily
20:13:29n1shey! don't you go dig up any showstoppers now! :P
20:14:32gevaertsI didn't want to do it!
20:17:21 Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
20:17:28gevaertsOn c200 : enable keyclicks, remove earphones from ears (important!), start playing first mp3 in directory, after a few seconds start seeking back, hold seek a while after reaching start of file, press play/pause a few times
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20:18:14LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: Does the strength of the keyclicks matter?
20:18:26gevaertsSometimes I get a serious bleeping sound, sometimes it just half-hangs (i.e. no freeze)
20:18:38gevaertsLambdaCalculus37: I set it to strong, but I doubt if it matters
20:18:53gevaertsYou can get it back to working state by exiting the wps
20:19:08gevaerts(sometimes also by pressing other keys)
20:20:02gevaertsHowever, I tried the same thing on my mini and while the WPS screen seems functional (scrolling text and everything), no button has any effect other than turning on the backlight
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20:21:02LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: I just got a very nasty sound out of my c200 that can best be described as "ZFFFRRRZZZZZZZ".
20:21:11gevaertsok, I managed to exit the WPS on the mini, but now it's also emitting a nasty high tone
20:21:24LambdaCalculus37But mine doesn't hang or anything like that.
20:22:04gevaertsIt doesn't always hang. Sometimes it just doesn't play any more but you can still skip to the next track which gets it going again
20:22:19*gevaerts is happy that he saw Nico_P join a moment ago :)
20:22:25LambdaCalculus37Playback isn't working now.
20:22:32*LambdaCalculus37 shuts off the c200 and tries again.
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20:22:50Nico_Pgevaerts: because of the keyclik bug?
20:23:30gevaertsNico_P: I'm not sure where the bug is. keyclick seems involved, but that's all I know
20:25:00LambdaCalculus37Actually, keyclick on the c200 doesn't even seem to work correctly.
20:25:56gevaertsIs there some sort of software WPS pseudo-hold on ipod?
20:28:28gevaertsNico_P: I can confuse playback by seeking to the start of the file, holding the seek key, pressing play, releasing the seek key, and releasing play
20:29:21gevaertsthe seek-back icon is shown, and nothing happens (even exiting the wps or changing volume doesn't work) until I seek forward
20:29:29gevaertsc200, keyclick set to off
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20:30:15gevaertsSo from what I can see keyclick only adds the ear-piercing noises to it
20:30:33pixelmathe "keyclick" caused nasty loud beeeeps when voice was enabled until pondlife "fixed" it which in turn meant that it doesn't click reliably
20:31:20pixelmaon portalplayer targets
20:32:12LambdaCalculus37gevaerts: I just caused a similar effect, except that on mine, it jumped forward one track in the folder, and the seek back icon was still displaying along with the track information from the first track selected.
20:32:23LambdaCalculus37The progress bar was also frozen in place.
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20:33:22gevaertsThe seek-left+play block happens at least on c200, ipod mini and x5
20:33:44*LambdaCalculus37 has no music to try out on his 2G iPod
20:33:47gevaertsOf course this just means "don't press two buttons at the same time"
20:34:02LambdaCalculus37But what about the sudden jumping of tracks?
20:34:47gevaertsWas that also with more than one button pressed at the same time?
20:35:41LambdaCalculus37Yes.
20:36:09gevaertsI guess playback doesn't handle that well. I also guess that it isn't really usual behaviour though
20:36:44gevaertsSo this isn't a blocker as far as I am concerned
20:37:51LambdaCalculus37Good. :)
20:38:38gevaertsThe combination with keyclick could be bad though
20:39:02*gevaerts installs spyware on all rockbox players to find out how many people use it
20:40:52scotty_007gevaerts: but how to get the data? usb-tcp/ip-stack ;)
20:41:25gevaertsscotty_007: we integrate that with last.fm
20:41:31funmanusing sound waves instead of radio waves ?
20:46:06funmanhttp://www.patentstorm.us/patents/7180811/claims.html
20:46:20funmandoesn't look like an invention to me
20:46:36funmanin any case, not made in 2007
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20:49:54*gevaerts submitted a bug report about the multiple button issue
20:50:33funmangevaerts: which debugging tools can you use to debug such a problem ?
20:50:48funmanexcepting the simulator
20:51:12gevaertsfunman: mainly your brain I expect, and probably logf()
20:51:32funmanright
20:51:48*gevaerts hasn't actually tried to debug playback issues yet
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21:18:42scotty_007Nico_P: ping
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21:31:17Nico_Pscotty_007: pong
21:36:50scotty_007Nico_P: the pictureflow fixes yesterday (r18454) introduced a bug in the pf-tracklist, as i told you. tried it today with a downloaded current RB on my ipod. i think kugel did not see it, cause he tested with ShowFPS enabled. it occurs only when ShowFPS is disabled: the y-position index of the tracklist ist increased endlessly, so the tracklist is show outside the screen
21:37:28Nico_Pok, I'll give it a try
21:39:00scotty_007Nico_P: I think, this patch fixes (and describes) the problem: http://pastebin.ca/1198443
21:40:46scotty_007titletxt_y is declared static and not initialised if not all tracks fit on the screen and showfps is off
21:41:10 Quit miepchen^schlaf ()
21:41:38Nico_Pscotty_007: ah, thanks for the patch :)
21:42:32scotty_007thanks for rockbox! i would never use my ipod with OF ;)
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21:43:42Nico_Pheh, I'm not the one to thank ;)
21:44:22scotty_007but part of it
21:44:43gevaertsscotty_007: you just provided a patch, you're part of it too!
21:47:53 Quit fxb (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:47:55scotty_007gevaerts: and as part if it I will try your FS #9391 tomorrow on my ipod color ;)
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21:55:12*LambdaCalculus37 give scotty_007 the honorary welcoming beer
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21:58:12scotty_007LambdaCalculus37: hicks, thank you, hicks. have to leave now, I'm drunken ;-) bye...
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