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#rockbox log for 2008-09-24

00:00:00 Quit Strife89 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:00:28 Join Zarggg [0] (n=z@65-78-69-194.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com)
00:00:45 Join dany_21a_ [0] (n=daniel@84-119-25-50.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)
00:01:16pixelmaBagder: are the manuals already built?
00:01:28Bagderif you want to fix something, I can restart the build
00:03:26pixelmaI just realised that "Change speed/angle (angle only while paused)" can be misunderstood - I wanted to say that you can only adjust the angle while it is paused but one can read it as "angle is only adjustable while paused"... anyone got a better idea (stay short)?
00:03:30 Quit Strife1989 ("Leaving")
00:03:51 Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@204.116.245.152)
00:04:16 Join Llorean [0] (n=DarkkOne@32.168.67.33)
00:04:21bluebrotherwell, the download page could already have a big fat link to the rbutil wiki page −− and we can add a hint that updated binaries for 3.0 will follow shortly
00:04:49amiconnBagder: How could I check for a define (in EXTRA_DEFINES) in a Makefile?
00:04:57bluebrotherrbutil needs some small path adjustments at least. But I'd like to make it query themes.rockbox.org too so we get a chance displaying a better error message
00:05:16 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:05:28Bagderamiconn: you check for the "-DBLABLA" string
00:05:28 Quit kronflux ("Leaving")
00:05:53scorchebluebrother: that would be nice, yes...just let me know what to do with t.r.o
00:05:54amiconnHmm, but there can be several other options in EXTRA_DEFINES
00:06:05pixelmanative English speakers?
00:06:13Bagderyes but make can check for a substring within a string
00:06:20amiconnI need to check for a bootloader build in firmware/Makefile, for limiting the font to pure ascii
00:06:21dan_apixelma: "(only angle while paused)" would take away the ambiguity - but I parsed it correctly
00:06:47bluebrotherscorche: can you put http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uhcn/rockbox/rbutilqt.php.txt on t.r.o and make it accessible without password or whatever?
00:07:01dan_apixelma: or "(speed can't be changed while paused)"
00:07:15*gevaerts votes for that one
00:07:26pixelmathe latter is more clear
00:07:31bluebrotheras it only constructs an error message (anyone with better wording feel free to speak up ;-) there shouldn't be any issues with that
00:07:41bluebrotherof course remove the .txt extension ;-)
00:08:04bluebrotherrbutil will display the description= part
00:08:14pixelmadan_a: thanks :)
00:08:56pixelmaBagder: can I just commit it to the release branch?
00:09:02dan_apixelma: you're welcome
00:09:09 Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
00:09:09Bagderpixelma: sure
00:09:43bluebrotherBagder: rbutil currently retrieves the bleeding edge information from build.rockbox.org. Do you think that ini file could also hold the information for daily builds and latest release?
00:09:58 Join krazykit [0] (n=kkit@host-69-145-35-234.static.bresnan.net)
00:10:28bluebrotherwould make it a bit easier, and also not require a new release once a new Rockbox release has been made
00:10:53Bagderwell, latest release should be easy to add more or less manually
00:11:35bluebrothermy idea was to have only one file to retrieve. The data gets asked for anyway, and it's only a couple of bytes.
00:12:21 Join dabujo [0] (i=xx@p4FDB26C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:12:22Bagderyes, but it means that my scripts need to fetch info from several places to be able to provide it
00:12:45BagderI've kept them independent since we can then easily run them on different machines etc
00:12:50bluebrothertrue. But starting multiple requests from rbutil make it slower starting up ;-)
00:13:01pixelmaBagder: sent
00:13:18Bagdermanual build restarted
00:13:56pixelmanice
00:14:48bluebrotherhmm. Well, first step would be adding the latest release info. But that would also need to hold the information for which targets the release has been made
00:16:10 Quit mf0102 (Remote closed the connection)
00:16:57 Quit dany_21a (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:17:56Bagdernow someone can respond to that lwn article with a smirk ;-)
00:18:02 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@cpc1-hem18-0-0-cust660.lutn.cable.ntl.com)
00:18:35 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("Do quit now, there's a demon around the corner!")
00:19:03 Join BigBambi__ [0] (n=Alex@5.189.72-86.rev.gaoland.net)
00:19:33bluebrotherBagder: how about adding a link to rbutil?
00:19:50Bagderdoes it install 3.0 then?
00:20:41*gevaerts can't think of a good comment to that lwn article
00:20:45bluebrothernot yet, but I'm adding a note about that just now −− and want to create new binaries the next couple of days
00:20:53 Join reacocard [0] (n=reacocar@WL-153.CINE.HMC.Edu)
00:21:06scorchebluebrother: try now
00:21:09 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:22:02bluebrotherscorche: nice, thanks
00:23:55 Quit Strife89 ("Leaving")
00:27:41 Quit mcuelenaere ()
00:27:47 Quit PaulJam (".")
00:28:36*rasher pops the champagne
00:29:00*XavierGr missed the party :(
00:29:17XavierGrHappy release day to everyone! :)
00:29:30amdgooncongrats!
00:29:40gevaertsXavierGr: release day was yesterday!
00:30:02XavierGrargh
00:30:28XavierGrwell not for my timezone (as I understand)
00:30:51pixelmaaren't you +1h compared to Sweden
00:31:07XavierGrI am +2 GMT
00:31:18pixelmaso it should by after midnight for you too ;)
00:31:27pixelmaehh? be even
00:31:32XavierGrthough there is this Daylight savings which could make it +3
00:31:35XavierGrI am confused
00:31:47gevaertsXavierGr: let's make it simple. What time is it?
00:31:53XavierGrI just saw Bagder anouncing it after 1.31
00:31:56XavierGrem
00:31:58XavierGrsorry
00:32:01Topic"Rockbox Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | 3.0! 3.0! 3.0! 3.0!" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
00:32:02XavierGrI mean it is 1.31 now
00:32:08 Join star_jasmine [0] (n=arwyneve@75.108.74.16)
00:32:14Bagderyeah, my mail was post midnight here as well
00:32:17gevaertsXavierGr: in that case you're in GMT+3
00:32:26XavierGrBagder anounced it 32 minutes ago
00:32:38XavierGrgevaerts: yeah Daylight savings is really confusing at times
00:32:40Bagderah
00:32:43Bagder23:59:31 in fact
00:32:48Bagder29 seconds margin
00:32:49gevaertsWell done!
00:32:54XavierGrhehe
00:33:05pixelmathere's the confusion
00:33:08XavierGrWell congrats to all of you.
00:33:18XavierGrbut wow, 3 years passed already
00:33:19star_jasminehi everyone. tis I, the cygwin illiterate. How does one do a defrag or reset of cygwin? I am having trouble creating sapi4 voices, and my sapi 5 voices are not allowing me to choose the voice which I set in speech preferences under windows. I have already uninstalled cygwin, and reinstalled it with the same result.
00:33:22pixelmaand still the 23rd :)
00:33:27gevaertsPretty important I think. "Three years and one day after 2.5" sounds great, while "Three years and two days" just sounds silly
00:33:46Bagderoh indeed
00:33:52star_jasminealso, cygwin is very slow on my computer for some reason. much slower than it was
00:34:21XavierGris there a plan to release new bootloaders for iriver coldfire?
00:34:47 Quit BigBambi_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:34:52ameyerCould someone clean up the dialog box that rbutil throws up if you run it without a mounted player. The last sentence doesn't sound right. "The configuration dialog will now open to allow you correcting the problem"
00:35:35krazykitjust fix the string in the source and make a patch
00:35:50XavierGrargh someone inserted a new lang item before the release (at least I saw it now), pitty.
00:36:23gevaertsameyer: that dialog has been reworded just after 1.0.6, so it should be fine in the next version
00:36:47 Quit lacrstech (Remote closed the connection)
00:36:47 Quit tecnmmag (Broken pipe)
00:37:20ameyerok, that's good to know
00:37:37gevaertsameyer: it now says "Your configuration is invalid. This is most likely due to a changed device path. The configuration dialog will now open to allow you to correct the problem.", or "This is a new installation of Rockbox Utility, or a new version. The configuration dialog will now open to allow you to setup the program, or review your settings."
00:38:01 Join lacrstech [0] (n=lacrstec@209.216.196.2)
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00:39:21 Quit herrwaldo ("Konversation terminated!")
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00:42:06 Part pixelma
00:42:51 Join pixelma2 [0] (n=marianne@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
00:43:22*Bagder copies over all the manuals to the download server
00:44:45Bagderoh voice files...
00:44:54 Quit lasser ()
00:45:50*bluebrother has rbutil installing 3.0
00:47:11 Quit pfwsmbkwt (K-lined)
00:47:20linuxstbWas the ipod 1st/2nd gen meant to be in the release?
00:47:31 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
00:47:48bluebrotherexpect new binaries tomorrow evening (at least linux / w32) ...
00:48:01bluebrothertime for sleep now ... cya
00:48:07Bagderme too, night
00:48:12gevaertsbluebrother: doesn't work here
00:48:44bluebrothergevaerts: you need the most recent svn changes and luck to get the download master server −− or override it in rbutil.ini
00:48:58gevaertsbluebrother: probably the server then
00:49:13bluebrotherdownload.r.o -> haxx.r.o
00:49:22bluebrotheranyway, I'm out for tonight.
00:49:35 Quit bluebrother ("sleep")
00:49:39star_jasmineI used rbuild, just as an experiment. is there anything I can do to stop the voices I create from having the ends of words cut off? cygwin doesn't do that, but I"m having trouble with it. also, is there anything I can do to just use sapi4 with rbuild?
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00:51:52 Quit ender` (" I was trying to daydream, but my mind kept wandering.")
00:55:05Lloreanstar_jasmine: What is "rbuild"?
00:55:40star_jasminesorry the rockbox utility
00:55:57LloreanOh, in that case the cut off voices are a known issue, but I believe SAPI4 should work with it.
00:56:42star_jasmineok I"ll try again
00:57:12star_jasminewith sapi4 that is
00:57:50*Nico_P updated the English and French rockbox wikipedia pages for the release
00:58:37 Part scotty_007
00:59:03star_jasmineit gives a file size of 8 kb only. it had trouble creating a voice. I"ll try something other than the default
01:00
01:00:37 Quit miepchen^schlaf ()
01:01:24star_jasmineno with sapi4, I still can't create one under the rockbox utility
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01:04:02 Nick JdGordon|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
01:04:31Lloreanstar_jasmine: I only know that I thought it's supposed to work. I don't know much about voice personally
01:04:49dataangelIs there a way for plugins to use rockbox's on screen keyboard thingy to enter text?
01:05:12dataangellike, as a widget
01:06:57 Quit dany_21a_ (Remote closed the connection)
01:07:06DerPapstdunno. but check the text editor or other plugins using the osk
01:09:05*DerPapst implemented an own osk in his last plugin (because i can and because i'm too stupid to operate the osk of rockbox :P).
01:11:39 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:14:44 Quit DerPapst ("iPodLinux rocks!")
01:20:21 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
01:21:53 Quit Schmogel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
01:22:10amiconnLlorean: Cut off voices?
01:23:05Lloreanamiconn: Voices generated by RButil clip a little bit before the end of the string if music is stopped
01:23:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:23:17LloreanOnes generate with the scripts don't, and rbutil ones don't if music is playing
01:23:21LloreanThis has been going on for a considerable time.
01:23:38amiconnThen I'd think rbutil doesn't package the pause clip properly
01:23:43star_jasmineexcuse my ignorance, but can I download rockbox 3.0 with cygwin?
01:24:10Lloreanstar_jasmine: Cygwin doesn't really have anything to do with downloading Rockbox. What do you mean?
01:24:31Lloreanamiconn: I wouldn't know, but it's something that was baffling a few other people who looked into it, I don't remember any mention of the pause clip though
01:24:34amiconnThe pause clip is important on the MAS, and it also seems to be important on swcodec, but actually it shouldn't if pcm would be working properly
01:25:17amiconnThe PCM implementations seem to be a llitle buggy, in that they eat the last fraction of a second if there's no more data
01:25:35 Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection)
01:25:53amiconnI stumbled upon this when playing gevaerts's flac file of the rockbox logo converted to zx spectrum gfx
01:25:54Lloreanamiconn: Different strength lengths would lose differing amounts as if it were rounding to the nearest N amount of data?
01:25:58Lloreanstring lengths
01:26:27amiconnMaybe, maybe not
01:26:47LloreanThat seems to be how it's happening. The cutting off happens consistently for any one voice file, but not all strings seem to be cut off.
01:27:44star_jasmineI can download the source with cygwin right? I know I can get it from download.rockbox.org, but to make voices and so on...
01:27:49amiconnThe spectrum gave me a "tape loading error" even though the image loaded properly. The last byte transferred is a crc, so that got cut off and caused the error message
01:27:58amiconnThe pause clip is another hint
01:28:02 Join polluxx [0] (n=polluxx@xdsl-87-79-136-146.netcologne.de)
01:28:08polluxxhello!
01:28:16 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
01:28:39 Quit dan_a ()
01:28:42amiconnSomeone would need to make a voice file with rbutil to look at with a hex editor
01:28:47polluxxi was looking fwd to the release of 3.0 and now i cant download it for my h140 :(
01:28:48amiconnThen it should be easy to tell
01:29:07polluxxhello!
01:29:13 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:29:30polluxxdoes anybosy know why the downloads of the release dont work?
01:29:38polluxxd
01:30:08polluxxhm?
01:30:17amiconnBecause you're too impatient and not all mirrors have synced the release. You got a link to such a mirror..
01:30:18Lloreanstar_jasmine: cygwin is a linux-like environment for windows. You can download the source using SVN, or via the archive, as always.
01:30:52polluxxsorry, my intention was not to be impatient
01:30:55star_jasmineok thank you
01:31:14polluxxi mean.. theres a page that says "download release 3.0"
01:31:53amiconnpolluxx: It's okay. I'm often surprised by the lag of the mirrors myself...
01:32:18*amiconn thinks those mirrors are bad in their current form
01:32:18polluxxokay.. can someone send me the release for iriverh120, untouched?
01:32:43polluxxh140 (which is the 120 release)
01:32:44amiconnThere needs to be either a "sync now" interface for the main site admins, or the mirrors should be removed
01:33:17 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:33:42polluxxhello? could somone please send me the release "rockbox-h120-3.0.zip", untocuhed, please?
01:35:08advcomp2019polluxx, just wait
01:35:31krazykitpolluxx, do have some patience in waiting for a reply. http://haxx.rockbox.org/release/3.0/
01:35:32polluxxhm... i want to install it in a few minutes
01:36:06polluxxthanks, krazykit
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02:00
02:03:43 Quit advcomp2019 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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02:24:02b0ris-Is rockbox 3 downloading down ? or are the builds 3.0 ?
02:25:34polluxxhello! i once made this but i forgot: how can i switch back to my old iconset?
02:26:54Lloreanb0ris-: the mirrors may not all be updated yet, just try again in a while
02:27:22b0ris-ah thank you
02:28:17Lloreanpolluxx: You load all iconsets the same way...
02:28:47polluxxi found it. within the themes
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02:32:04scidiarycan i get the password for your vmware linux environment?
02:32:17Lloreanscidiary: The password should be on the page that links it.
02:32:50Lloreanhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/VMwareDevelopmentPlatform#Username_and_passwords
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03:00
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03:23:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:45:07mmadiaHi. May I get wiki write access? I've updated most of the broken Sansa E200 themes ( http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=18668 )
03:48:18webguest35I just got a sansa view to in anticipation of it eventually running rockbox (mostly for the replay gain feature) and, though I understand from reading through the forums that the port for this model is hardly begun, I was wondering what level of interest there is in the community in the port for it.
03:48:22 Quit Llorean (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:49:33webguest35just as to guage the likelyhood of a port for this model in the next 6 months / year
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03:53:47advcomp2019webguest35, we do not know because it is depends on how many people want it and knows how to do it.. there is no time lines
03:55:11ajonatwhat's the size of the album art using the default wps?
03:55:49ajonaton an ipod nano
03:55:50Lloreanajonat: Depends on your player
03:55:55ajonatLlorean, :)
03:55:56LloreanI believe the size is included in the tag.
03:56:02ajonattag?
03:56:34 Quit scidiary ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
03:56:36ajonatoh, Bitmaps that are too big will be cropped to fit in maxwidth and maxheight.
03:56:36LloreanIn the .wps file
03:56:40ajonatthank you!
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03:58:02advcomp2019mmadia, what is your wiki name too
03:58:18mmadiaadvcomp2019 : MattMadia
03:58:23 Quit n1s ()
03:58:51ajonatLlorean, %Cl|9|16|s65|s65| means 65x65, right?
03:59:07webguest35Thanks advcomp2019
03:59:40advcomp2019mmadia, i saw you thread and new Plain Text VP works or it should
04:00
04:00:11mmadiaadvcomp2019: yes, it does. i just forgot to update that line : )
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04:01:05eagledrchi i am new here fyi
04:01:20advcomp2019hello eagledrc
04:01:23eagledrci need the hidden partition dump file for hte sansa e280
04:01:29eagledrchi
04:01:46Lloreanajonat: I believe so
04:02:06ajonatLlorean, thank you, it works :)
04:02:41advcomp2019mmadia, you should be able to edit the wiki.. hope you will not spam it too :)
04:03:17mmadiahave i spammed something unintentionally? : )
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04:07:30advcomp2019eagledrc, just wait, you do not need to private message me.. i think someone will help you soon enough
04:10:03eagledrcoh okay i just don't know how it goes here.
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04:33:12mmadiaFor the wiki, would it be better to upload themes with a slightly different filename, eg WasBrokenTheme-pb.zip?
04:34:25LloreanI'd say it'd be better to replace the broken one entirely since the old one is unusable now. But that's my personal opinion.
04:35:35mmadiaIf I do that, would the original still be available in the revision history?
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04:36:47LloreanNo
04:36:54LloreanWhy does it need to be?
04:37:06 Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection)
04:37:08*mmadia shrugs
04:37:34mmadiaI thought a post in the forum mentioned it would.
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05:15:07hcshm, 3.0 gigabeat F/X download link is broken
05:16:23hcsapologies, my DNS just sucks
05:16:32hcscongrats on 3.0
05:16:43amdgoon:-)
05:17:12*scorche wonders where hcs has been
05:17:32hcsworking on vgmstream, and working on work
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05:22:59JdGordonLlorean: hey, wasnt there some discussion about clearing the install forums when the release happens?
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05:24:18LloreanJdGordon: I think the idea was tossed about, but nothing really came of it.
05:24:32LloreanI think the whole install area needs to be redone at some point.
05:24:47LloreanDividing by manufacturer is somewhat confusing, in a way.
05:24:53hcshm, I don't think it was entirely a problem on my end, I am getting a lot of 404s trying to download the other builds
05:25:10LloreanWhat I should do, is like how "Hardware" has "Broken Players" under it, I could do "Install" and then subforums for players where RButil won't work.
05:25:12JdGordonhcs: you need to wait for the mirrors to sync
05:25:21JdGordonor just use rockbox.haxx.se/download
05:25:45hcsah, didn't realize how little time it's been
05:28:22JdGordonhas anyone done any "press release" thingies to send round to news sites?
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06:13:45mercorahello there, ive "bricked" my sansa e200 by formaing the wrong partioion under linux since then i can not access the flash on the device but it boots up fine ... i shows a message bout complainin here is not enough space lef for databse creaion.... ive searched around a bit and found some usefull information here but nothing from he faq worked for me... could somebody of you give me some ponits to continuee ?
06:15:17advcomp2019mercora, you need to use the sansa.fmt file by recovery mode
06:17:09advcomp2019mercora, here is a page that talks about it if you want it: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200Unbrick
06:17:26mercorathanks i will try it :)
06:23:05mercoraadvcomp2019: i wan to sax thanks again this worked and was pretty easy
06:23:42advcomp2019yep, your welcome
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07:51:50scolesHey, I've been trying to get rockbox on my old ipod color lately, i just got a cf card to replace the hard drive and the adapter for it to fit, and i can write to it on the pc and restore through itunes but when i go to plug it into the wall outlet i get apple logo, then the folder icon then it shuts off no matter what i do so i cant get rockbox on it till i restore and i can't get the ipod out of restore mode
07:52:50scolesi've tried 3 different cf cards and none work, the ipod wont see it unless i go into diagnostics mode and run the disk read/write test twice then i can access the info on the card but i can't make sense out of why it does that
07:53:04scolesanyone got any ideas?
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08:01:19B4gder3.0 3.0 3.0!
08:01:27B4gder:-)
08:01:30scorche=)
08:02:08LloreanIt's exciting to have it out there.
08:06:11JdGordontime to start work on 4.0!
08:07:02B4gdera 1.0 step would be six years then? ;-)
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08:08:19*B4gder sees that gevaerts replied to the lwn article
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08:15:12scotty_007scoles: did you try the bootloader from FS #9369? ("The most notable fix is proper support for CF modded targets...")
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08:21:20scolesyes i've tried the bootloader but i cant get the ipod to restore
08:21:30scolesthrough itunes
08:21:59scolesso i can't get rockbox to load up because of that
08:22:33scolesthe ipod passes all of the diagnostics in the diagonstic mode but the hard drive one wont work unless i run the read/write test twice
08:22:46scolesmy thoughts are that i may have gotten a bad cf adapter
08:32:10*GodEater does the 3.0 dance
08:32:50JdGordontake it off!!! take it off!
08:34:22scorcheput it back on!!! put it back on!
08:35:53BHSPitMonkeyit's like the devcon webcam image fiasco all over again! D:
08:37:36GodEaterthere was a fiasco ?
08:37:55GodEaterjuicy gossip I've not been party to ?
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08:37:56scolesare there files that the ipod will look for on the hard drive before it will boot up? something like system files?
08:38:14GodEaterscoles: not files as such, but data on the firmware partition
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08:41:03scoleshmmm that's supposed to be written during a restore right? i'm just wondering why the ipod doesn't detect the card right when i turn it on but it will see it after some fiddeling in diagnostics, theres a led on the cf adapter so i can tell if it tries to acess the card
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08:42:58GodEaterscoles: will it let you start in emergency disk mode ?
08:45:52scolesi can write to it in windows fine, i can restore it in itunes fine but as soon as i unplug that cable to put it in the wall adapter it will show the apple logo then the folder icon, i can go into disk mode and diagnostics mode and it passes all in there save the funky hard drive thing
08:47:09GodEaterwhy do you immediately go from "restoring in windows" to "plugging in the wall adaptor" ?
08:48:15scolesi go for the wall adapter after it tells me to in itunes its a ipod color so i have to plug in the wall to finish the restore
08:48:48GodEaterthat's curious - I would only expect that to be required if it's attempting to reflash it too
08:50:25scoleshmmm well it seems to be in restore mode and it refuses to read from the card after i take it off the computer
08:50:45scolesi almost think it's trying to update my firmware too
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08:55:26GodEaterthat's what I just said
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08:57:23scolessorry, its late here and I really want to figure this out, this behaves the same with different cards so maybe my cf adpter i got is the problem?
08:57:41GodEatermaybe
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08:59:30scoleshmmm i don't know, its kinda annoying theres a few things that could be wrong but i cant figure out which one
09:00
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09:13:03JdGordonwhat are we calling the windows/menu button on the beast?
09:14:11amiconnBUTTON_MENU iirc
09:14:33JdGordonI've decided to be useful and fix the lang strings...
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09:14:41JdGordonso MENU?
09:16:09amiconnNot yet sure whether this is the best name
09:16:20JdGordonoh while I'm in the lang file... are we going to remove all the deprecated strings?
09:16:24amiconnThe button mappings on the beast are mostly crap atm
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09:16:45JdGordonfrom my quick play I havnt found them too bad
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09:26:44*amiconn summons LinusN
09:30:08JdGordonas usual we have more than 1 button for cancel... which is the one we should put on the screen (in the "OFF to cancel" splash)? Power or Back?
09:30:34BigBambiIs this beast keymaps?
09:30:41*JdGordon is inclined to say Back because its more accessable than power
09:30:45JdGordonand yeah, the beast
09:30:48BigBambiA fair bit of duplication there
09:30:55*amiconn would also prefer Back
09:31:08BigBambiI would put back in the splash
09:31:24JdGordonand I guess while im here... gigabeat F?
09:31:26BigBambiPersonally though I use power - I guess I'm used to it from other targets
09:31:39BigBambiThe F uses power
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09:32:07JdGordonboth work... I;'m just asking which to show the user
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09:32:24BigBambiOn the F?
09:32:39BigBambiWhat can you use as well as power?
09:32:48JdGordonI meant S
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09:33:20BigBambiah, OK
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09:33:27BigBambiI'd show the user back personally
09:34:52JdGordonand the sansas? the menu button is called power?
09:35:24JdGordonhmm.... my bad, they are set already for PREV
09:38:16*JdGordon thought there were more key langs...
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09:39:26JdGordon... Should I remove all the deprecated strings?
09:42:03davidfg4I noticed that the wiki is missing an entry on the keybox plugin
09:42:24davidfg4I figured the easiest way would be to do it myself
09:42:32BigBambiYep :)
09:42:42davidfg4could someone add write permissions to the DavidGianforte account?
09:42:55BigBambiOK
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09:43:02davidfg4Thanks
09:43:51JdGordonanyone know if the wps editor is actually usable?
09:44:00BigBambidavidfg4: OK, done. No spamming now!
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09:52:01qoqoonpetur: could you maybe help me with an iriver CFmod problem?
09:52:14petursure
09:52:37peturwhich iriver?
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09:53:31qoqoongreat. so: i've been running a 32Gb transcend CF card in my H320 for a few months now. i'm using your patched bootloader. it works okay, but i keep getting those I03 errors
09:54:08qoqoonyou replied in my thread that those errors are due to a bug in the bootloader svn version you then used
09:54:21qoqoonso i tried yesterday and updated to the most recent i found
09:54:28qoqoonand i got the ATA -80 error
09:54:45peturexplain 'the most recent found'
09:54:53qoqoonhmm yeah, that's another thing :)
09:54:58peturthat would be v5
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09:55:11qoqoonyeah, it said v5 when i booted it up
09:55:30peturthat is the latest release, and way too old for CF
09:55:34qoqooni just got the patcher exe
09:55:35qoqoonoh
09:55:36qoqoonokay
09:55:43qoqoonso i have to compile the source?
09:55:47qoqoonor are there any binaries?
09:56:11qoqooni mean... it would be really really great if there was a bootloader binary somewhere
09:56:20qoqoonalready patched and all
09:56:28qoqoonfor the 320
09:56:29peturafaik the issue isn't fixed yet so building from SVN will only give you the risk of flashing a bad bootloader
09:56:42qoqoonoh, okay, that's also good info :)
09:57:06qoqoonso just help me understand - the I03 Addr Error issue isn't fixed yet
09:57:07peturmy CF bootloader in the wiki is what we have for CF for now
09:57:10JdGordonanyone know how to open the .pro files for the wps editor?
09:57:17qoqoonand the ATA -80 was due to unpached bootloader?
09:57:22peturyes
09:57:23*JdGordon thought it was a kdevelop project, apparently not
09:57:32qoqoono-kay
09:57:48qoqoonif i remember correctly, you have a 320 as well
09:58:07qoqoonare you also getting those I03 errors from time to time?
09:58:25peturqoqoon : I get those Addr errors also on my h380 (with a disk), I hope LinusN has some time in the future to come up with a solution
09:58:34peturmy h320 is an h308 atm ;)
09:58:50qoqoonhehe CF?
09:58:55peturyes
09:59:12qoqoonbut only iriver players are affected by those addr errors?
09:59:22peturand my h120 is dead because I made a stupid mistake when making a bootloader
09:59:43peturqoqoon: can't say until we know where they come from
09:59:52peturlooks like a timing issue to me
09:59:54JdGordonNico_P: you were the co mentor? any idea what idea was used?
10:00
10:00:01qoqoonit's probably best i keep away from compiling my own bootloaders, huh?
10:00:06peturyes
10:00:43qoqoonwell, thanks. is there a thread in the forum about that issue that i can check periodically to see if it's been fixed yet?
10:00:59peturI think there were several
10:01:09qoqoonis the bug confirmed - is it in the bugtracker?
10:01:20Nico_PJdGordon: I'm not sure there was a particular IDE. *.pro files are Qt project files
10:01:20peturif we find/fix the issue it will also be on the MajorChanges wiki page
10:01:51qoqoonhmm... what is that error about anyway?
10:02:01peturqoqoon: I think there was a tracker entry as well
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10:07:17B4gderthe source link is now present on the download page
10:08:25Nico_PB4gder: maybe the current builds page could have a mention of 3.0 with a link?
10:08:44 Quit GodEater_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
10:08:44B4gdergood idea
10:11:54markunB4gder: do we have a plan for future releases?
10:12:15B4gderyes, next release branch/freeze happens in ~3 months
10:13:24B4gderbranching again from trunk then
10:13:42B4gderif we feel a need for a 3.0.1 before that, we can just fix problems in the 3.0 branch
10:15:58markunB4gder: I always thought releases were pretty useless, but now that we have one it feels really good :)
10:17:15B4gderI agree!
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10:19:24Nico_Pfor those who can read French: http://linuxfr.org/2008/09/24/24523.html
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10:20:06Nico_Pgoogle translation: http://translate.google.fr/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Flinuxfr.org%2F2008%2F09%2F24%2F24523.html&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8
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10:22:51markunNico_P: thanks
10:23:11Nico_Pthe corrected "daily" to "dayly" :p
10:23:17Nico_Ps/the/they
10:24:27BigBambiNico_P: Haha, those frenchies eh? :)
10:24:39Nico_P:)
10:25:07markunwith their words like "micrologiciel" :)
10:25:33*BigBambi still refuses to send courriels :)
10:25:48*Nico_P too
10:26:06markunBigBambi: I've never heard anyone use that word for real. Only telling me that it's the official word and nobody uses it.
10:26:22BigBambiI've heard it used at conferences and the like
10:26:26BigBambiBut not in 'real life'
10:26:33BigBambiAnyway, this is a -community chat
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10:47:26K3rl0u4rnhello people, I just discovered your piece of software (thanks to linuxfr) and I would like to know if xclef HD-500 (ISM jukebox) are supported
10:47:51scorcheK3rl0u4rn: all devices that rockbox works on are listed on the front page
10:48:08K3rl0u4rnI didn't find page about currently supported hardware, planed etc...
10:48:46K3rl0u4rnscorche: ok, so I guess it is not supported. Is there a chance it is supported someday or some people are working on this ?
10:49:25B4gdernobody works on it
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10:49:51scorcheports happen when people with the capability, time, and the device itself come forward to work on it...that said, you can check the status of ports-in-progress in the "new ports" section of the forum...i dont recall hearing of that device though
10:50:50K3rl0u4rnscorche: ok, I have such device so I probably can help in testing some versions if needed
10:50:59B4gderhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/XclefInfo
10:51:28K3rl0u4rnscorche: however, for developement parts, I don't know how much work it could be and what king of abstraction of the hardware you already have
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10:51:42B4gderit is a lot of work
10:51:44B4gderhard work
10:51:59B4gderabstraction doesn't help until you've figured out all the hw details
10:52:04K3rl0u4rnB4gder: found this page already but it does not say much about the status, I gonna check the forum part
10:52:09B4gderthere is no status
10:52:16B4gderthat's just early research info and details
10:52:43K3rl0u4rnB4gder: ok, I probably can not do this myself without help
10:52:44B4gderthe hw is similar to the iriver h1x0 series though
10:53:45B4gderrockbox.org/wiki/NewPort tells the whole harsh story on how to proceed
10:54:04K3rl0u4rnB4gder: what programming language do you use for firmwares ? are you using assembly or C ?
10:54:16B4gderrockbox is primarily plain C
10:54:18scorchewe use both, but primarily C
10:54:18K3rl0u4rnB4gder: ok, thank you
10:54:46K3rl0u4rnI gonna read some pages and come back :)
11:00
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11:21:29K3rl0u4rnlooks like a really challenging task for a single human right ?
11:22:01K3rl0u4rndo you know any people that could be interested in porting rockbox onto xclef / ism jukebox ?
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11:23:34B4gderthere was a few back then, but these days that's a very outdated target
11:23:52K3rl0u4rnI know, but hey, it's still working ;)
11:23:58B4gderyou're often best off asking that question in forums for that target
11:24:18B4gderin #rockbox, we're already using rockbox on targets...
11:24:19K3rl0u4rnI used to check open-jukebox project at the early time
11:24:28K3rl0u4rnbut it seems the project disapeared
11:24:40K3rl0u4rnand the knowledge disapeared with it
11:24:49B4gderI don't think they achieved anything in particular
11:24:59K3rl0u4rnI don't either
11:29:00dionoeahello
11:29:23dionoeaB4gder: why do the manuals still have the Draft Version watermark? (or is that due to a mirror which hasn't synced yet?)
11:30:01 Part Llorean
11:31:03B4gderthose are the svn versions and no the 3.0 ones
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11:31:48K3rl0u4rnlooking at the forum points me that 1 guy in 2007 requested help for a port on XClef HD 500
11:32:14K3rl0u4rnthat could possibly make a team :) possibly....
11:32:23B4gdergo go go! ;-)
11:32:27K3rl0u4rn:p
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12:00:54Nico_PB4gder: are there manual builds for 3.0?
12:02:33B4gderyes, just not easily available as links yet
12:06:38markunI just converted resized the rockbox logo making use of the LCD subpixels for my gigabeat and it looks a lot better
12:07:22markunshould we use it in rockbox?
12:07:51JdGordonfor sure if it looks better
12:08:07*B4gder agrees
12:08:12markunone problem is that screens might have the same resolution, but different layout
12:08:22markunfor example, the gigabeat screen turns out to be BGR
12:08:50markunwhen I first make a picture using GBR subpixels it looked worse than the original
12:09:05JdGordonblaa.320x240x32-bgr.bmp and blaa.320x240x32-gbr.bmp?
12:10:17markunone other problem is that for example meizu M6SL can have 3 different screens which might have different subpixel layouts
12:11:00markunbut perhaps if can then just use the non-subpixel images until we find out that they all have the same layout
12:11:58linuxstbmarkun: In which case, you could just use CONFIG_LCD in the bitmaps/native/SOURCES file - with a comment saying why...
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12:14:00markundoes anyone want to test on other targets?
12:15:23peturmaybe Jungti wants to test on h3x0 ;)
12:15:30markun;)
12:16:40markunI'll first make some test images to find the layout
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12:21:23markunhere is a 320x240 test http://130.89.160.166/temp/subpixel-test-320x240.bmp
12:21:40markunanyone with an ipod video who wants to give it a go?
12:23:27Nico_PI will
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12:24:19markunlinuxstb: I was thinking of adding a SUBPIXEL_LAYOUT define in config.h which checks the CONFIG_LCD value
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12:24:46markunNico_P: just set it as a background
12:27:15Nico_Pmarkun: it's RGB
12:27:34markunNico_P: ok, then I'll give you another picture
12:27:49pixelmaJdGordon: wanted to ask you - why did you invent a new "albumart" feature for the language files? Is it "just" because some of the new port targets which are already in the build table seem to not have album art even though they could?
12:28:28linuxstbmarkun: That's better ;)
12:29:12JdGordonpixelma: its because the albumart code is surrounded in #ifdef HAVE_ALBUMART so what i've done is more consistant than using lcd_bitmap
12:29:38*Nico_P agrees with JdGordon
12:29:48pixelmaI would have suggested lcd_non-mono
12:30:03JdGordonsome mono targets have AA apparently
12:30:10pixelma?
12:30:54markunNico_P: http://130.89.160.166/temp/rocklogo-test-320x240.bmp
12:30:55JdGordonthere should have been 0 delta for non AA targets..
12:31:14scotty_007pixelma: iPodMini has AA (but looks ugly)
12:31:29GodEateriPodMini isn't mono - it's greyscale
12:31:29pixelmascotty_007: that's not monochrome
12:31:47markunNico_P: can you tell me which looks better on your ipod?
12:31:51JdGordonah, ba yeah forgot we deal with grey and mono differently
12:32:36pixelmaJdGordon: there was no delta and it was not my concern - just want the features list to not be bloated unnecessarily
12:32:54Nico_Pmarkun: the bottom one looks sharper but i has a few colour artifacts
12:33:46markunNico_P: hm, that last part isn't good. What kind of artifacts exactly?
12:34:24Nico_Pthe grey text at the bottom right has red parts
12:34:26JdGordonpixelma: sorry, no i was putting grey and mono in the same group in my head which is why I thought there was delta on targets which would hav been excluded by lcd-non_mono (in my head)
12:34:36GodEaterNico_P: and green too
12:34:53JdGordonpixelma: either way... features.txt isnt huge and should stay consistant with the code
12:34:58markunthen I wonder if it's really RGB layout..
12:34:59Nico_PGodEater: yes
12:35:15GodEatermarkun: personally, I prefer the way the top one looks
12:35:47markunGodEater: can you also try the subpixel test?
12:35:52Nico_Pthe shadow-type things in the b and o of box also have artifacts in the middle of the curve
12:36:26Nico_Pmarkun: what kind of computer screen fo you have?
12:36:39GodEatermarkun: doing that now
12:36:45markunNico_P: CRT, but does that matter?
12:36:55Nico_Pmy laptop's LCD behaves the same as the ipod
12:37:12markunah yes, then you can see it as well of course
12:37:21Nico_Pyes
12:38:02Nico_Pmarkun: what are you using to convert the pics?
12:38:04GodEaterI agree with Nico - the RGB part of the subpixel test looks cleanest
12:38:55markunNico_P: some gimp script
12:39:01GodEaterbut I prefer the top picture in the logo file
12:39:07GodEaterit looks much better than the bottom one
12:39:19GodEaterit's anti-aliased a lot nicer
12:39:30Nico_Pit's smoother
12:40:01markunI'll try to find a better subpixel resampler. I also see some artifacts.
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12:40:47pixelmaJdGordon: maybe the HAVE_ALBUMART is unnecessary then... </semi-serious> Also, *I* wouldn't expect to see the album art size in the Rockbox Info screen, not sure if there's a better place but it would at least need documenting... :\
12:40:48Nico_PGodEater: there definitely is some potential though
12:41:39JdGordonpixelma: well some people might want a build without it, and yes its not expected... but neither is disk space...
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12:45:01pixelmaJdGordon: any plans on documentation?
12:45:16JdGordonwho me</semi serious> :D
12:45:23JdGordons/me/me?!
12:45:54markunGodEater: so for you the test image also showed it was RGB?
12:46:36markunor did you see artifacts in all 4 images?
12:46:42pixelmaJdGordon: better than none... I guess
12:47:12JdGordonyou missed the joke... yeah but much later tonight.... working on assingments now
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12:49:28GodEatermarkun: the test image showed it was RGB
12:49:32GodEaterthe other three had artifacts
12:51:40*GodEater has to go to a meeting
12:58:27markunNico_P: I'll try this: http://oyhus.no/SubLCD.html
13:00
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13:10:19MarcGuayErr. http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/FreeMusic? Don't other sites already handle this?
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13:10:31MarcGuayLambda, Strife89: Care to justify?
13:11:17*BigBambi_ thinks that is going slightly beyond the remit of Rockbox
13:11:23BigBambi_Where does it end?
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13:12:34MarcGuayBestGravy?
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13:14:52BigBambi_MarcGuay: eh? Still, I don't really think that page should really exist, but I'm not bothered enough to really argue one way or another
13:17:40MarcGuayBigBambi_: Just taking a guess at where the end of Rockbox-relavence is, and a BestGravy wiki page seemed like the final frontier. As for myself, I scrubbed that wiki good and do care enough to argue. <sharpens pitchfork>
13:18:19*B4gder sides up with MarcGuay
13:19:17MarcGuayShould I just kill it? I can't think of a defence.
13:19:47BigBambi_I agree
13:20:06MarcGuayIn other news: Is there an easy way to convert all of the unclosed bugs "due in 3.0" to "due in 3.1"?
13:20:15BigBambi_By not caring enough I meant if someone really wanted to argue for it. If it were just up to me I'd kill it
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13:26:13MarcGuayAnyone have a link for the 3.0 manuals?
13:26:30B4gderthey're still only present in the release/3.0 dir
13:26:43B4gderno easy accessable links
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13:36:45MarcGuayipod 1/2g still definitely supported despite the scrollwheel issue?
13:36:50MarcGuay(for 3.0)
13:37:39LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: I guess the 2G is, at least.
13:49:51*LambdaCalculus37 doesn't know about the 1G iPod
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13:50:14MarcGuayIt has a build up.
13:51:02LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: True that.
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14:06:44*MarcGuay smushes more wiki info together. Less is more.
14:07:58hcsmore or less
14:11:51MarcGuayThis line needs some work to account for release versions, if anyone wants to try a rewrite: "Check if the bug is still present in the latest current version *and* with the latest available bootloader. Rockbox changes fast and many reported bugs have already been fixed in newer versions."
14:12:17MarcGuayPresuming someone could report a bug in 3.0.
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14:47:31amiconnmarkun: Subpixel rendering is a bad idea if you ask me
14:48:30zaytsevHello guys
14:49:44zaytsevMy sister's just bought a latest Nano, but it can't play FLAC. So the question is whether some efforts on porting are undergoing and if yes is there something we can help with?
14:50:24BigBambi_No real efforts no
14:50:36BigBambi_There is a thread in the New Ports forum you can read
14:51:05BigBambi_The problem is that a) the new ones are encrypted and b) even if that were broken, then the hardware is new and undocumented
14:51:29zaytsevAha, I browsed the faq/wiki and just found out it is not supported with no real status updates
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14:51:52zaytsevOK, I try to find it and read this as well.
14:52:32amiconnThe problem is that not just different targets with the same resolution may have differnent subpixel layouts; there are also targets where different hardware revisions exist which may have different subpixel layout. How would you handle that?
14:53:17zaytsevI wonder what's the problem with breaking the firmware. Is it just a lack of people / interest problem? I am keeping an eye on this iPhone / iPod Touch buzz and they are really doing some crazy things breaking the certificates etc.
14:53:54LambdaCalculus37Encryption and undocumented hardware are the problem.
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14:54:38GodEaterzaytsev: the "iphone dev-team" are also extremely close lipped about how they're acheiving those breaks, so it helps no-one else.
14:55:28zaytsevGodEater, you mean they are just disguised Apple guys :-) ?
14:55:56GodEaterit's not a possibility I'd discount entirely...
14:57:22zaytsevI had an impression that they have a public wiki and they put their code in public domain, and then they have an IRC channel. Maybe I am wrong, I am not a dev, I just read news about their so to say outstanding achievements breaking Infineon chips from time to time.
14:58:09zaytsevOK, found those iPod threads, gonna read them first...
14:58:26markunamiconn: yes, I think so too now. After some thinking I realized that it only works for grayscale images.
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15:00:08LambdaCalculus37zaytsev: Only in a perfect world.
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15:15:48GodEaterzaytsev: they have a wiki which they give out status reports on, *some* of their code is public too - but it relies on the break already having happened. They have no details on how they've found the breaks at all.
15:16:28zaytsevThat is strange. Still reading the threads...
15:18:42GodEatermy personal opinion is that they're kind of immature about it all. "It's our code, you can't have it"
15:18:56GodEaterbut there's no sense complaining - the information isn't out there, for whatever reason
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15:25:11zaytsevOK, finished my reading overall it's pretty sad. I can contribute some money (which is a you say the least concern), the dumps of whatever it is as long as it stays functional (MacBook Pro + iPod owner), but I absolutely have no time to spend and I am not smart in crypto ;-(
15:26:47GodEaterI doubt there's anything you can dump on the Nano 4G
15:26:56BigBambi_zaytsev: Sadly that isn't much help
15:27:05GodEaterthe ipods after the 2G Nano hid the firmware partitions completely
15:27:22BigBambi_zaytsev: Unless someone breaks the cryptography it is pointless, and even then...
15:27:57GodEatereven then it's still a mountain of work
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15:29:39preglowa very huge one
15:30:13preglowone can pretty much just forget newer ipods, apple has made it very clear they don't want anything third-party on it
15:30:24preglowso just don't buy them
15:30:33zaytsevI would LOVE to forget about them. But the thing is...
15:30:57BigBambi_Honestly, there is better, more open hardware out there
15:31:14LambdaCalculus37The thing is that you have eBay to get a Rockbox-compatible DAP.
15:31:23zaytsevWhere would I get an iPod nano sized player that works with rockbox (I need that to play FLAC)?
15:31:29preglowyeah, sadly
15:31:40LambdaCalculus37zaytsev: Does it *have* to be a nano?
15:31:44zaytsevNo
15:31:45hcsgot my Sansa e260 on woot
15:31:59LambdaCalculus37You can get an e200 on Froobi now.
15:32:07LambdaCalculus37They even sell v1's!
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15:32:32GodEatera c200 would be better, it's even smaller
15:32:37LambdaCalculus37http://www.froobi.com/SanDisk-Sansa-e280-MP3Media-Player-Factory-Recertified-Rockbox-Ready_p_78-32283.html
15:32:56zaytsevI had Meizu Music Card for a half an year, but it was a bit buggy (although tolerable) and then just broke completely (I think that the USB thing just desoldered or whatever it was). So I've got a refund.
15:34:17 Nick delt_zZzZ is now known as delt (i=1000@66.234.26.5)
15:34:24delthello
15:34:34zaytsevHmm, I am going to look them up.
15:34:43deltsomething weird happened on my ipod the other day
15:35:14zaytsevI don't think it is possible to find them in Russia though... maybe possible ship to some friend in Europe/States though.
15:35:32deltthe progress bar and the timer were "stuck"
15:35:55delteven though the music was playing
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15:36:16GodEaterAre we changing our support rules on the forums btw ?
15:36:26GodEatersince the release of 3.0 ?
15:36:35deltalso, (dont know if it's supposed to be this way) but when i unplugged the earphones and unlocked the "lock" button, rockbox immediately shut down
15:36:59delt(said "shutting down" for a few seconds then turned off the player)
15:37:25delt<−−- will download rockbox 3.0
15:37:29zaytsevSansa c200 up to 2 Gbs ? This is hilarious if you're keen on lossless music
15:37:43GodEaterzaytsev: they're expandable with microsdhc cards
15:37:51GodEaterI have a 9Gb c200
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15:38:14GodEaterif I find any money in the back of the couch, I might upgrade it to 17Gb soon too
15:38:16deltGodEater: how much did you pay for it?
15:38:28zaytsevIc! it sounds reasonable
15:38:32GodEater£12.00 for the player £25 for the sdhc card.
15:38:40GodEaterbargain!
15:38:49deltholy shit, where did you find that?
15:39:00BigBambi_bigpockets.co.uk
15:39:02GodEaterI don't recall where we got the player from - there was a job lot going somewhere
15:39:09GodEaterwell remembered BigBambi_ :)
15:39:15BigBambi_They had a load of cheap v1 c240s going
15:39:23BigBambi_But that was a good long time ago
15:39:36GodEaternot that we knew they were all V1s mind you - we just hoped for the best. At £12 who cared ? :)
15:39:39BigBambi_GodEater: I bought one too, but I've probably booted it three times :)
15:39:51GodEaterIt's a decent little player I think
15:39:54BigBambi_I just couldn't pass it up for £12 :)
15:39:59GodEaterme neither
15:40:01GodEaterI didn't need it
15:40:02BigBambi_Yes, I think it is fine for what it does
15:40:03delt12 that would be about $25 canadian right?
15:40:07GodEaterabout that
15:40:08BigBambi_no idea
15:40:21GodEaterCAD/USD are about on a par at the moment I think BigBambi_
15:40:40BigBambi_OK
15:40:41deltand 25 == about cad$40
15:40:50GodEaterthere abouts
15:41:08deltexcellent deal!!
15:41:36 Quit tvelocity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:41:41GodEaterBigBambi_: the day after my c200 arrived I saw one for sale in Maplins for £45. Rip off!
15:41:54delti used to have a cheap 1gb sansa "sandisk"..... it broke after a few weeks
15:42:32deltwhy is there a "" before each time you put a ""?
15:42:42GodEateryour IRC client is broken
15:42:52BigBambi_GodEater: That's rubbish indeed
15:43:10deltprobable, im using an old version of bitchx in a terminal emulator
15:43:28GodEaterdelt: ah, in that case perhaps your terminal is not set to UTF-8 ?
15:43:36deltthrough screen
15:43:59deltnah, i think screen is the problem
15:44:16GodEaterdelt: what's LANG set to ?
15:44:20GodEaterI doubt it
15:44:26delten_US
15:44:30zaytsevOK, read the faq & wiki. So you do no support UMS, we have to boot the Sansa thing to upload music, then reboot in Rockbox to play it.
15:44:40BigBambi_Yes
15:44:47GodEaterdelt: that's your problem then
15:44:59BigBambi_at the moment anyway, for some players (that includes Sansas)
15:45:08GodEateryou probably want en_US.UTF-8
15:45:19delthaven't fiddled around with textmode settings for like, years
15:45:35GodEaterdelt: about time you did then ;)
15:45:41delteven though i use textmode consoles all the time
15:45:43deltyepyep
15:46:04GodEaterzaytsev: there is an experimental USB stack for UMS in Rockbox which you can enable if you build your own
15:46:19GodEaterotherwise, correct, you'd have to boot the sansa into it's original OF to transfer music.
15:46:21deltmost stuff just works fine, so i never got around to fixing these slight little quirks
15:46:39GodEaterI moved everything over to UTF-8 about 6 years ago
15:46:44GodEaterwas painful at the time - but so worth it
15:46:48zaytsevOK, the other problem is how do I find it out whether it is a v1 or v2? I mean I can buy it from the web shop and ask them to ship it so someone in Europe but I can't try the player before I buy to get to the settings
15:46:54BigBambi_zaytsev: But due to a bug in the SD driver (I hope gevaerts is watching), there is a chance you will corrupt the filesystem using it
15:47:08GodEaterzaytsev: the *only* way to tell is to get someone to turn it on, and check the firmware version it reports
15:47:13BigBambi_zaytsev: The only way is to look at the OF version
15:47:15GodEaterthere is no other 100% reliable method
15:47:39GodEaterwhich is why we like froobi - they check for you
15:48:02GodEatermost other web vendors wouldn't bother, even if they knew how, which most wouldn't.
15:48:55zaytsevPardon my ignorance but is Froobi a webshop for players which is worth it? I mean I am quite used to Amazon but I am cautious about the shops I do not know
15:49:40GodEaterwww.froobi.com - we trust them
15:50:01deltdo they ship to Canada?
15:50:16 Part LinusN
15:50:27GodEaterno idea
15:50:28JdGordonpixelma: ok, is the info screen actually in the manual?
15:50:31GodEatergo have a look!
15:50:37deltwhere are they located?
15:51:11GodEaterUSA I think
15:51:16JdGordonGodEater: if it loaded i wouldnt be asking :p
15:51:19GodEaterthey quote in USD
15:51:43GodEaterJdGordon: the "go have a look" wasn't directed at you!
15:51:45zaytsevI have found ONE sansa in Russia :) Off to check this froobi out.
15:52:21JdGordonGodEater: hehe, sorry :p
15:52:24GodEaterzaytsev: make sure you check to see if it says "Rockbox ready" against it
15:52:31GodEaterotherwise it's not the right version of the player
15:52:51deltretailers actually tell that?
15:53:03deltoh yeah i see... cool :D
15:53:23GodEaterdelt: no, most retailers don't - froobi is an exception, hence why we like them
15:55:05zaytsevI wonder which one is better, c200 or e200.
15:56:00zaytsevOK, thanks everyone for the help! I will try to find someone in the States to bring the player to me... Look like it's the only option to get a nano-sized FLAC player.
15:56:28delti like my ipod nano
15:56:48deltonly thing is battery life.... i wouldn't mind it being a bit thicker but with a bigger battery
15:57:02liiwie280 is pretty nice, except the microsd card does not stay in
15:57:50*JdGordon 's microsd has never fallen out
15:58:12GodEatermine hasn't either
15:59:33BigBambi_nor mine
16:00
16:00:46liiwijust bounces out if you touch it even a little, had hard time finding the tiny card couple times
16:03:18lassermy e280 hold its micro-card pretty nice, since yesterday ;-) 16GB for music...wow
16:03:33liiwi8+8?
16:03:42lasserliiwi, yep
16:04:06liiwinice, 8+4 has been pretty good so far
16:04:40lasserliiwi, my wifes and my daughters e200s hold them too...
16:04:52lasserperhaps your micro card is broken?
16:05:00GodEateror the slot is
16:05:16liiwiyup, possible
16:05:21 Quit Schmogel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
16:07:24deltwhat's the maximum capacity card you can put in a e280?
16:07:36LambdaCalculus37Theoretically 32GB.
16:07:49*amiconn thinks it's theoretically 2TB
16:07:57deltawesome. theoretically.
16:08:16amiconnSDHC is *specified* up to 32GB, but that's not the technical limit
16:08:31deltah i see
16:08:46GodEaterhehe, 2TB on something the size of my fingernail. That would be teh awesome.
16:09:01deltwhat about the e250?
16:09:04GodEatersame
16:09:17deltteh awesomeness
16:09:27GodEaterit's the same for all our microsdhc capable targets
16:09:56J-23hmm, there's a misspelling in Polsih Rockbox translation
16:09:59J-23Polish*
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16:10:02BigBambi_hahaha
16:11:12GodEaterhow ironic
16:11:23delt/topic <J-23> hmm, there's a misspelling in Polsih Rockbox translation
16:11:33 Quit Seed (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:12:43J-23it's one-time contribution, so I don't put it on the tracker. http://wklej.org/txt/6283/
16:13:11*GodEater doesn't understand people that do this
16:14:05GodEaterif it doesn't get into the tracker, it's unlikely to make it into Rockbox J-23
16:14:29lasserI have an issue with my e280 running rockbox r18561: the wiki says it has an PP5024, but the rockbox Hardware info in the debug menu shows an PP5022C.
16:14:41deltwhat does sdhc stand for?
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16:15:00lasserdelt, sd high capacity
16:15:06deltah got it
16:15:33lasserDon't I have a e280? ;-)
16:15:43thegeekI think they are the same
16:15:43deltwhat's the battery life on those sansa's?
16:16:00GodEaterlasser: the branding on the SoC doesn't match the internal id - it's a common PP thing.
16:16:09liiwiabout 20h on my e280
16:16:17lasserdelt, batery bench was running for about 17 hours on mine
16:16:20deltwith rockbox?
16:16:26lasserdelt, yep
16:16:37deltwhat about factory firmware?
16:16:44lasserGodEater, ok, thx
16:16:53deltdamn, that's good
16:17:03lasserdelt, 16 hours with OF
16:17:08deltheh
16:17:24lassersame playlist of course...
16:17:46deltonly thing is the stupid proprietary usb cable =(
16:18:21deltwho the fk designs these anyway?%?!?
16:18:41lasserdelt, someone who wants to earn some more money...
16:19:14deltwell, they lose some money because less ppl will buy them
16:20:23deltso, is there any decent sansa with a microSD slot and a NORMAL usb connector?
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16:21:43GodEaterNope
16:21:47deltor how hard would it be to pull out that connector and solder a standard one.....
16:21:54B4gdersansa != standard connectors
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16:22:12deltwhat about other brands?
16:22:18LambdaCalculus37delt: Not happening unless you want to completely ruin your Sansa.
16:22:34deltie. hard, right?
16:22:36B4gdersome others have standard ones
16:22:43deltand a sd slot?
16:22:52B4gderyou mean microsd I guess
16:22:56deltuh yeah sorry
16:22:58B4gdercowon d2 has standard usb and sd
16:23:06B4gderbut no running rockbox yet
16:23:13delt:(
16:24:17deltif at least ipod's and sansa's had the same weird connector...
16:24:21lasserok, next issue: When I view the buffering thread in rockbox debug menu it shows me the cpu freq with 30mhz when it's idle. Why not 24mhz?
16:24:40deltbecause it says "keep out" -)
16:24:56B4gderwhy 24?
16:24:59B4gderwhy not 18?
16:25:01B4gderor 6
16:25:12GodEaterthe answer is "because" :)
16:25:13B4gder:-)
16:25:38deltisn't entering the "Debug (Keep out)" menu breaking the informal Rockbox EULA?
16:25:57BigBambi_EULAs can go screw themselves
16:26:10delt(my thoughts exactly)
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16:26:30BigBambi_My point being we have nothing of the sort, informal or otherwise
16:26:54deltexcept gpl
16:27:03lasserB4gder, hm. Or perhaps "42"... :-) But if I set the cpu freq in the debug menu to 24mhz then it is shown...
16:27:05BigBambi_That is nothing like a EULA
16:27:10pixelmaJdGordon: there's a short description in main_menu/main.tex
16:27:28pixelmabasically just naming what you see there
16:28:13J-23http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9416
16:28:15JdGordonah ok.. missed it when i went looking before
16:28:50JdGordonpixelma: where do the \opt's come from?
16:28:59lasseras 24mhz in the buffering thread.
16:29:33lasserand stays there until music starts playing...
16:29:54pixelmaJdGordon: some are in the platform files and some are autamtically parsed from the features.txt...
16:30:02pixelma*automatically too
16:30:14JdGordoncan I use "albumart" then?
16:30:27pixelmayep, should work
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16:33:07deltwhat would really be awesome is be able to playlist stuff that gets handled by viewers/plugins (like mod/s3m/xm/it etc)<
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16:33:31deltboing?
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16:37:16lasserdelt, boing? what's that?
16:37:21delt J-23 has left #rockbox [n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl] ()
16:37:21delt J-23 has joined #rockbox [n=aldwulf@a105.net128.okay.pl]
16:37:52JdGordonpixelma: nup... I cant get my head around the tex....
16:38:13BigBambidelt: Let's stay on topic
16:38:18deltsry
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16:38:36deltbut seriously,
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16:38:43delt<delt> what would really be awesome is be able to playlist stuff that gets handled by viewers/plugins (like mod/s3m/xm/it etc_
16:38:49delt)
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16:41:20deltthat with a few options in the mikmod plugin like "loop maximum times" etc...
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16:43:41lasserhm, no answer or no knowledge about this cpu freq thing?
16:43:55martin`When i try to use rockbox utility it tells me to redo my configuration, even though its not faulty. Any idea why?
16:44:15deltlasser: i think they put "keep out" because the cpu freqs are all screwed up :D
16:44:43deltjk
16:46:08lasserok, have to go, bye
16:46:18deltcya
16:46:21*lasser has to go now, his daughter wants to play soccer for the next hours...
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16:47:53deltmartin` what kind of player?
16:48:00martin`Gigabeat F60
16:48:29deltno idea then, perhaps someone else can help
16:48:52GodEaterbluebrother and domonoky are the RBUtil guys
16:49:08GodEaterneither of whom appear to be here currently
16:52:35deltanyway, bbl
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17:14:31martin`hm
17:14:49martin`when i uninstalled rockbox and try to run my gigabeat, it says no system found on hdd
17:14:58martin`have i accidentally removed the original firmware?
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17:16:49LambdaCalculus37Did you back up the FWIMG01.DAT file that was in the /GBSYSTEM folder?
17:17:17martin`i dont think so, no
17:17:43LambdaCalculus37Do you have the Gigaroom software installed on your computer?
17:17:51martin`no
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17:28:16martin`how come that even though i have the file FWIMG01.DAT in gbsystem/fwimg/ the bootloader wont work?
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17:30:00BigBambiBecause unless you have replaced the original one, that is the Rockbox version, not the Toshiba version
17:30:25BigBambiThis is why the Rockbox installation instructions very clearly say to back up the firmware files before installing Rockbox
17:31:01martin`I had them backed up, but they are on another computer that i dont have access too atm
17:31:31BigBambiWell you need them....
17:31:43 Part delt_away
17:31:53martin`isnt there anyway i can ge the original gbsystem folder?
17:32:15GodEateronly from your backup, or the gigaroom cd
17:32:50BigBambiWe can't distribute them, we don't have the right
17:33:04martin`So what can i do? Nothing?
17:33:06BigBambiThis is why we tell you to back up, so you have your copy
17:33:35BigBambiYou can either get your backup, get them from the gigaroom CD
17:34:19 Quit petur ("*plop*")
17:34:47martin`okay, thx
17:34:59BigBambiYou need a copy of the original ones from an un-rockboxed gigabeat
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18:54:03Dieterbefunny, when i strace rbutilqt-v1.0.6-64bit, i see this:
18:54:12Dieterbeopen("/home/jonas/local/lib/tls/x86_64/libpng12.so.0", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
18:54:23Dieterbehe's looking for several files in /home/jonas :P
18:54:26markun:)
18:54:39markunDieterbe: is that your own home dir?
18:54:49Dieterbenope :)
18:55:13Dieterbei guess one of the developers is called jonas
18:55:58moosrasher is
18:56:10*bertrik decides to try the latest sansa c200/e200 bootloaders from svn
18:56:28rasherOops
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18:56:48Nibblerhi ich
18:56:56rasherAnd I did indeed build the 64bit rbutil.
18:57:10Dieterbebut anyway, anyone familiar with 'zlib library errors' while installing rockbox.zip and rockbox-fonts.zip ?
18:57:26bertrikno, never seen those
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18:57:50rasherI'm guessing it's just trying that location before trying the system location - or it'd never have worked for anyone?
18:58:06Dieterbeindeed, doesn't look harmfull. funny though :)
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19:00
19:00:12moosbertrik: hi, IIRC the charging patch for sansas had to be commited after the freeze/release. What's about it?
19:01:48*Llorean thinks we need to take a good look at Multifont, Viewport Lists, Sansa Charging, and Software USB patches to see if we can get any of the committed far enough from 3.1 that they have time to get a good shakedown.
19:02:03moosindeed
19:02:22moosif we want a release in the next 3 months... :)
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19:06:26bertrikmoos, some bad news: I thought I had solved the "end-of-charge bit does not get set when starting at a high battery voltage" problem, but unfortunately I still see it
19:06:48bertrikI don't think it really bad for the battery though as the charge current is basically zero when this happens
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19:08:02bertrikalso I thought I found a way to measure the absolute value of the charge current, but it turns out that I can only measure relative current, i.e. I can see if the charge current has dropped by 50% but I can't calculate the actual charge current
19:08:03moosaie, ok, let's hope it will be solved in the next 3 months :); But I don't know if this is really a commit stoper...
19:09:08moosI mean, now that we have a release build, we could consider the daily builds a bit more like experimental (or name it like you want)
19:09:23BigBambi__multifont would be ace
19:09:41moossame for the software USB...
19:09:57BigBambi__indeed - I already use that though so I'd sort of forgotten :)
19:10:11mooshehe :)
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19:10:40moosnow we have release build for those that doesn't want daily builds...
19:12:25LloreanBigBambi__: One key problem about multifon, IIRC, is it's more or less implemented wrong
19:12:34LloreanIt's one of those "done in a bad way, but it works" soluetions.
19:12:44LloreanDon't ask me for details, just going on what others have said about it.
19:12:44BigBambi__Llorean: I can readily believe it
19:13:03LloreanSo, committing it would be neat, but at the same time it'd instantly mean we eventually need someone to dig it out and replace it.
19:13:14BigBambi__yeah, not ideal
19:13:22moosmarkun: what's about your font reworks? ;P
19:13:24LloreanSo it's kinda "do we do what's good for the users, or what's good for the developers"
19:13:52BigBambi__I'd go for the latter if it isn't done right
19:13:55LloreanHistorically we've sided with devs, but what we need in this case is someone familiar enough with the associated workings to say how much (if any) extra work we're creating for later by including it.
19:14:05bertrikdo what's good for the developers, in the long run it'll be better for the users too
19:14:33moosindeed
19:14:33LloreanI mean, if "dig it out and replace it" is the same difficulty as "write the new one from scratch" anyway, we may as well get it in if it's not buggy, and finalize the WPS syntax and let people start writting multifont WPSes for official builds
19:15:38domonokyrasher: it seems, that you didnt build rbutil (linux-64bit) statically.. :-)
19:15:39BigBambi__I don't really have enough knowledge to comment :)
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19:15:48rasherdomonoky: not at all?
19:15:52rasherman.. what a failure
19:16:00domonoky:-)
19:16:21domonokyanyway its time for a new rbutil release, so it can install 3.0 :-)
19:17:01rasherI'll try not to cock up this time, unless someone else does a 64bit version
19:17:16 Quit bughunter2 ("bye")
19:17:54bertrikI'm not familiar with the multifont patch by the way, that was just my general opinion
19:18:16Lloreanbertrik: And it's generally the right one IMHO
19:18:30LloreanBut it's still good to look at things on a case-by-case to avoid blanket delays. :)
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19:21:57n1sugh, building a logf enabled sim gives heaps of format warnings with int versus long
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19:23:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:26:00Dieterbei have a new point for the faq: Rockbox says 'zlib library error' during the installation. What's this? −−> "Check the free space on your media player's disk. Usually this is caused by not having enough free space"
19:26:47 Quit Darksair ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
19:26:48n1sDieterbe: sounds more like we should have size checking in rbutil to be able to display a nicer error
19:27:04n1sor maybe look at which error zlib returns...
19:27:08Dieterbeah.. yes
19:27:14Dieterbewant me to file a report somewhere?
19:27:59Dieterbeon the tracker?
19:28:01n1snot sure it's somewhere between a usability bug and a feature request imho so...
19:28:28n1smaybe just pester domonoky and bluebrother :)
19:29:14domonoky:-)
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19:33:25Dieterbethere you go http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9417 :) have fun
19:33:50domonokyzlib does not return a nice error for this case..
19:34:24Dieterbeokay, but rbutil can still check the amount of diskspace on the filesystem
19:34:42Dieterbeif it's less then a certain configured amount, give error to user :)
19:35:06domonokyif tell us how to do this on win/lin/mac :-)
19:35:43n1sdo we have a policy on logf/DEBUGF output in the sim, should everything be off by standard or can output that's potentially useful to users be on by default?
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19:36:08Dieterbedomonoky: i'm really bad in C and the likes. I can give you the function name in php if that would help :P
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19:36:46domonokythat doesnt help of course, we need a crossplatform C/C++ way to check the disk space
19:37:32dionoeagood luck with "crossplatform" :)
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19:38:52domonoky:-) in this case "crossplatform" probaly means a function with #ifdefs.. (using statfs on linux, GetDiskFreeSpaceEx() on windows, and unknown on Mac)
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19:40:18n1sdomonoky: nothing like that in qt?
19:40:42domonokyDieterbe: the theme error is normal, the theme site is down at moment, we are waiting for a new one..
19:40:43bertrikmaybe just create a large file to check if there's enough free space :) ?
19:40:53rasherdomonoky: well, php source would probably reveal a crossplatform way
19:40:55domonokyn1s: no, nothing for this in Qt
19:42:07Dieterbedomonoky: would it explain why rockbox hangs when bootstapping? i just copied the fonts manually now, but still same problem :/
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19:43:03Dieterbediskfreespace() is the name in php
19:43:22domonokyDieterbe: this "hang" must be another problem, you dont need themes and fonts, thats just extras...
19:43:34Dieterbeaha, ok
19:44:22domonokyDieterbe: does the rockbox bootloader print anything on screen on startup ?
19:45:15Dieterbeno nothing, first apple logo, then the screen becomes entirely bright, and then after that all pixels are black. that's it
19:45:18DieterbeApple: 1st through 5.5th generation iPod, iPod Mini and 1st generation iPod Nano
19:45:21DieterbeBTW
19:45:24Dieterbe(not the Shuffle, 2nd/3rd gen Nano, Classic or Touch)
19:45:34DieterbeMine is a 2nd generation with touch wheel
19:46:46 Quit Lambdumb (Client Quit)
19:46:50Dieterbethe supported devices list is a bit confusing. all 2nd gen ipods are touchwheels. does this mean they are all not supported?
19:46:51domonokyif the bootloader doesnt show anything, perhaps this went wrong... also ipod 2gen is less tested i think, not much devs with this device available
19:47:05amiconndomonoky: Does the sim build & work properly on osx?
19:47:56domonokyamiconn: i dont know, i dont have osx at hand. (i use jdgordons mac remotely for building rbutil)
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19:48:25amiconndomonoky: If it does, the code to display the free diskspace is the same as on linux
19:49:00domonokywe have already code for getting diskspace in the sim ?
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19:49:31dr_dimitriHello together
19:49:41amiconnSee uisimulator/common/io.c: fat_size()
19:49:49amiconnIt's needed for the rockbox info screen
19:50:10amiconnUses GetDiskFreeSpace() resp. statfs()
19:50:19domonokyamiconn: nice.. :-)
19:51:50domonoky(the code needs a but modification to work on the right disk, but should be a good starting point) :-)
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19:52:11Dieterbeoh and domonoky .. after a few minutes of 'hanging' it seems to reset: the apple bootloader runs an the same cycle starts again
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19:52:53amiconnDieterbe: The 2nd Gen is supported. The bootloader is not supposed to show anything unless you press a button to see the messages
19:53:04domonokyDieterbe: looks like the bootloader isnt really installed... maybe try ipodpatcher itself to install the bootloader again..
19:53:17Dieterbeyep i'll try that
19:53:25GodEater_hmm
19:53:27amiconnThe display going all black after boot means the contrast setting is way off. Perhaps you can read something if looking from the top or bottom
19:53:27GodEater_no swedes
19:53:29domonokyamiconn: but in case of error it should show something, right ?
19:53:38amiconndomonoky: yes
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19:54:18Dieterbeamiconn: you were right
19:54:40amiconnIt sounds like rockbox does indeed boot properly. After some minutes of inactivity, it tries to power off, but since that doesn't work on a 2nd Gen, just reboots
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19:54:59Dieterbewhen it's black i can't see shit, but when it was very bright for a few seconds i could see some sort of menu when looking carefully
19:55:02amiconnYou can use rockbox on a 2nd Gen just fine, but you need to work around a few quirks atm
19:55:27amiconnFirst, disable idle poweroff so that rockbox doesn't try to reboot by itself
19:56:16Dieterbegreat. i reset it and when it's very bright it first shows 'rockbox' big, and then i can see the top item in the menu. 'files' was it. yeay :)
19:56:24amiconnThen, if you actually want to "shut down", hold Play until rockbox triggers the reboot, then immediately flick the hold switch, so that the bootloader boots into the OF which will then suspend after a few minutes
19:56:49amiconnTo go back to rockbox, disable the hold switch and then reset the ipod
19:57:12amiconnYou can charge the battery in rockbox, even though rockbox doesn't indicate that it charges
19:57:25amiconn(charging itself is hardware controlled)
19:57:37BagderGodEater: you called Sir?
19:57:38Dieterbek, where do i disable the idle poweroff?
19:58:12amiconnSettings->General Settings->System->Idle Poweroff
19:58:37Dieterbeany dev living in belgium? i could lend my ipod to develop on/with, if you want
19:59:06gevaertsDieterbe: several
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19:59:20Dieterbeany close to ghent?
19:59:34gevaertsyes, two actually :) (not me though)
19:59:57Dieterbewell, if they would like, they can lend mine
20:00
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20:00:13*gevaerts summons petur and mcuelenaere
20:00:29amiconnSeems the default contrast needs a bit of correction...
20:00:33Dieterbebtw amiconn that won't work. i can only see the menu for a few seconds, and it's so overbright i can't see shit anyway
20:01:09gevaertsDieterbe: mybe you can edit the config file manually
20:01:10amiconnYou can adjust the contrast...
20:01:22amiconnYeah, that would also work
20:01:31Dieterbei'll try to find a config file
20:01:32*amiconn would be interested in that contrast value
20:01:55 Quit dreamtux ()
20:04:07dr_dimitriDoes rockbox play flac files?
20:04:11martin`yes
20:04:16dr_dimitriThanks :-)
20:04:24martin`np :D
20:04:31gevaertsdr_dimitri: strictly speaking that depends on the player
20:04:42gevaertsThe Archoses only handle mp3 and wav
20:04:48dr_dimitrigevaerts: ipod nano 1. gen
20:04:58gevaertsok, that one has the full set
20:04:59Dieterbehmm i don't find where i can change it.. grepping in .rockbox didn't help much either, or is it one of the binaries? -> http://rafb.net/p/hpXIQ989.html
20:05:14*Dieterbe going to eat. see you later
20:05:31n1sDieterbe: config.cfg in .rockbox
20:05:39dr_dimitrigevaerts: Is it planned that rockbox will support the other nano player?
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20:05:41LloreanDieterbe: If you haven't changed it before, there won't be a previous value in config.cfg to check for.
20:06:03LloreanDieterbe: I *think* the manual describes what the line needs to look like when you add it.
20:06:08gevaertsdr_dimitri: no support is ever planned. If people work on it, it may happen
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20:07:37dr_dimitrigevaerts: Ok perhaps planned was the wrong word ;-) Has onyone started or will start this?
20:08:03martin`where can i obtain the contents of the gbsystem folder?
20:08:11martin`gigabeat room wont work in ubuntu
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20:09:36Lloreandr_dimitri: How can we know if someone else will decide they're interested in starting it?
20:10:11ameyerAs I understand it, they're working on it but not getting anywhere
20:10:26ameyerdamn firmware encryption
20:10:27bertrikyay, e200 bootloader works fine for me
20:11:23martin`does anyone have a gigabeat F?
20:11:25amiconnn1s, Dieterbe: config.cfg doesn't exist until at least one setting is different from the default
20:11:35dr_dimitriLlorean: Well perhaps you have been talink about hat here. I don't know. It was just a question not a demand (hope you did not understood me wrong as I'm not a native speaker)
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20:12:14Bagderdr_dimitri: we don't know of anyone working on it
20:12:37LambdaCalculus37martin`: Why not try Toshiba's website?
20:12:42dr_dimitriOk. thanks.
20:13:37dr_dimitriIf someone would try that I could donate a ipod nano 4th gen to him. I like rockbox!
20:14:17LambdaCalculus37dr_dimitri: I don't think that'll make any difference, but free DAPs are always a sweet deal. ;)
20:14:26martin`LambdaCalculus37: i dont find anything there
20:14:28dr_dimitriDAP?
20:14:38martin`and i cant install gigabeat room since i dont use windows
20:14:41LambdaCalculus37Digital Audio Player.
20:15:28martin`does anyone know where i can obtain the gbsystem contents?
20:15:55Lloreanmartin`: You don't need them to use Rockbox. We have dummy ones that are sufficient.
20:16:02gevaertsmarkun: I'm meeting size limitations on the M6SP as well, but disabling useless stuff like FAT drivers helps a lot
20:16:06dr_dimitriLambdaCalculus37: Ah ok. Any preferences? Or do you prefere a paypal donation to the whole project?
20:16:18martin`Llorean: how do i do that?
20:16:51gevaertsdr_dimitri: I think it's extremely unlikely that the newer ipods will ever be supported
20:16:51martin`or how do i get them, to be exact
20:17:06 Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection)
20:17:30Lloreanmartin`: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatFXPort
20:17:39pixelmaI thought I read martin`wanted to uninstall Rockbox...
20:17:52*Llorean found this by googling 'site:www.rockbox.org/twiki gbsystem'
20:18:11LambdaCalculus37pixelma: He does, but he doesn't have the original FWIMG01.DAT file from the Gigabeat.
20:18:11dr_dimitrigevaerts: Why? I've heared that the new ipods are using a kind of a "checksum" but the new libgpod supports at least the 3 gen.
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20:18:28gevaertsdr_dimitri: encrypted firmware on all levels
20:18:33Lloreanmartin`: Those files won't work for uninstalling.
20:18:39LambdaCalculus37dr_dimitri: That doesn't matter if libgpod supports newer iPods. Rockbox has nothing to do with libgpod.
20:18:49LloreanIf you're trying to recover use of the Original Firmware, you more or less need the original files.
20:19:16pixelmaLambdaCalculus37: that was more or less to Llorean... ;)
20:20:02martin`At the moment i have no firmware on my gigabeat
20:20:02BigBambi__martin`: The answer remains the same as the one I gave you earlier
20:20:06martin`not rockbox nor the original one
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20:20:22*gevaerts can't get the LCD driver ID on the sp
20:20:42martin`i want to install rockbox, but it doesnt seem to work without having the original firmware
20:20:53martin`and i cant get the original firmware, since gigabeat room doesnt work in ubuntu
20:20:53BigBambi__No, it does not need it
20:21:02martin`How do i then install rockbox?
20:21:06BigBambi__Use the dummy files Llorean pointed you at
20:21:28dr_dimitriOk. Well perhaps I find a good 8GB nano 1 gen at ebay ;-)
20:21:46LambdaCalculus37There are no 8GB 1st gen nanos.
20:21:56dr_dimitriUff you're right. Only 4
20:22:10alskiHello! I reformatted my 60Gb Photo macPod as described in the wiki, but it only created a 32 Mb FAT16 partition. I'm on OS 10.5 .Anyway to fix this?
20:23:06 Quit moos ("Rockbox rules the DAP world")
20:23:58Lloreanalski: Try it again, and follow the directions more carefully?
20:25:18alskiI guess so
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20:25:52pixelmamartin`: I thought you still had the old bootloader on your gigabeat (the Rockbox FWIMG01.DAT)?
20:27:28martin`hm, yeah i have that one
20:28:11LambdaCalculus37So why not just copy it back onto your Gigabeat!?
20:28:21martin`I have done that
20:28:26martin`but it doesnt boot
20:28:41LambdaCalculus37Did you click the battery switch off and then on again?
20:28:45martin`yes
20:29:09martin`i have the rockbox FWIMG01.DAT in gbsystem/fwimg/
20:29:36 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection)
20:29:36martin`is there anything i have missed?
20:29:48pixelmawhat about extracting the build zip?
20:29:50BigBambi__The dummy files Llorean pointed you at?
20:31:05martin`i have put the dummy files in the same folder
20:32:46LambdaCalculus37What's the system error that appears?
20:32:55martin`"No system on HDD"
20:32:57 Quit barrywardell ()
20:33:41BigBambi__How are you accessing the hard drive to put files on?
20:34:08martin`via USB and a xterm
20:34:17BigBambi__USB from where?
20:34:27martin`from my computer?
20:34:31 Quit synergist (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:34:51BigBambi__If neither the Rockbox bootloader nor the OF are installed, I don't understand how you are accessing USB
20:35:07BigBambi__What does it say on screen during the USB connection?
20:35:37LloreanBigBambi__: Gigabeat F have that USB mode when you unplug the disk.
20:35:42martin`its the original firmwares USB-connection icon, but i cant start the original firmware
20:36:07BigBambi__Llorean: I didn't realised it worked without unplugging the disk
20:36:19BigBambi__Live and learn!
20:36:56LambdaCalculus37http://www.angelfire.com/bug2/gigabeat/
20:37:30LloreanBigBambi__: You have to unplug the disk, then you can replug it to access the disk.
20:37:36LloreanIf he's not unplugging the disk, who knows what's happening.
20:37:54martin`I can access the disk
20:37:58martin`and read/write from it
20:38:08BigBambi__Llorean: That's what was confusing me - if he is unplugging the disk that would be a major bit of info to leave out :)
20:38:39Lloreanmartin`: Which FWIMG01.DAT is on the player right now?
20:38:40LloreanWhat size is it?
20:39:29martin`The rockbox one, its 64K
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20:39:49LloreanHave you turned the battery switch off and on, while unplugged from wall power, since you copied that over?
20:40:23martin`yes
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20:44:12martin`gotta reboot
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20:46:59gevaertsmarkun: I don't get anything back from the LCD driver chip on the SP. Do you have ideas on what to try?
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20:51:45martin`this is kind of annoying
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20:52:06martin`what do i need to do in order to install the bootloader? the .DAT-file is there, what else?
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20:54:16kiekohi
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20:54:35kiekowhat does relase 3.0 give that is new?
20:54:48gevaertskieko: new compared to what?
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20:56:23kiekogevaerts, pevious release?
20:58:34*gevaerts lets someone answer that who has been around since 2.5
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21:02:39martin`for some reason i cant create folders on my gigabeat
21:02:45martin`i get read errors
21:03:06 Part J-23
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21:05:10Dieterbeokay guys i'm back :)
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21:07:25martin`whats up with the rockbox homepage??
21:08:04*ameyer guesses /. ran something on the 3.0 release or something
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21:08:49ameyer...or noy
21:08:51ameyer*not
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21:11:58Dieterben1s / gevaerts / amiconn / domonoky : i just googled around a bit and found this file http://www.tbrn.net/rockbox/config.cfg . i just copy pasted the contrast value of 14 and rebooted the ipod. this seems to be a pretty good value
21:12:35Dieterbewhen i press a button the screen lights up very clearly, and after that, the menu has a normal, good contrast ratio, just perfect ;)
21:13:25Nico_Pthe linuxfr release I posted got an interesting (IMHO) piece of feedback: http://pastebin.com/m4a2cf1c7
21:13:42Nico_Pthe translation is google with a few touchups
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21:14:11*gevaerts wants to know why this isn't meant to be constructive for non french speakers
21:14:42Nico_Phehe... he posted it in French
21:15:06Nico_PI'll probably write an answer after I get supper
21:15:10gevaertsI'm reading it in French as well
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21:15:55Nico_Pthen you're a French-speaking developer :)
21:16:22gevaertsI'm a French-reading developer right now :)
21:16:59gevaertsBut you're right, there are some good points there (and also one or two less good ones. What's wrong with decibels?)
21:17:20 Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:17:25bluebrotherhmm. I don't get his critics, at least not completely. What's wrong with customizability?
21:17:37 Quit kieko ("GeronimoH11111111111111111")
21:17:51bluebrotherand why "a default theme for each model"? We do have a default theme.
21:18:01Nico_Phe'd like theme preview and simpler color selection
21:18:15Nico_PI didn't really get the default theme part either
21:18:17gevaertsbluebrother: that's one of the less good points I think
21:19:00bluebrotherthough I like the idea of having some settings presets. But I talked about that before too −− have rbutil write some settings based on the users favourite usage pattern.
21:19:58bluebrotherwell, this "to become less eliteist" is kinda funny. Who says we are elite, and who says we want to be come less "eliteist"?
21:20:29bluebrotherI think he missed the fun part on the developers side ;-)
21:21:27Nico_Pwell of course, since he's on the user side ;)
21:21:41gevaertsI somewhat agree with his games/apps point. Maybe we need to trim more for the releases
21:22:12*gevaerts also wants to know where he found tetris1d. Rockbox doesn't have any game named like that
21:22:26Nico_Phow's it called?
21:22:39gevaertsWe do have rockblox1d
21:22:52Nico_P:)
21:23:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:24:42bluebrotherand that game does have its reason :D
21:24:55bluebrotherwho says games have to be useful?
21:24:56BigBambiI think he has somewhat missed the point - it is somewhat complicated because those that develop it want to be able to control everything - unlock the hardware
21:25:12BigBambiA better UI would of course be great, but not at the expense of customisability
21:25:24bluebrotherunlocking the hardware *is* one of the main reasons for Rockbox, isn't it?
21:25:25 Join beta2k [0] (n=beta@d150-126-240.home.cgocable.net)
21:25:43BigBambiAnd I mean better as in better is always possible, not that it is bad at the moment
21:25:44gevaertsYes. A lot of us are in this to have fun and to have players do what we want
21:25:46LloreanSome people just wanted the limited UI they originally had, with a couple tweaks, and more codecs/games/etc.
21:25:47BigBambibluebrother: Exactly
21:25:55bluebrotherand what's a "better" gui? Who tells what better means? I really like the current UI.
21:26:08LloreanBut everyone who's ever proposed RockboxLite has followed up with "But someone else should make it for me"
21:26:09bluebrother_if_ you got used to it all those OF interfaces seem awkward.
21:26:10BigBambiMe too, I only meant better as in everything can always be better
21:26:56BigBambiThe menu structure can be a little confusing at times - I've used Rockbox for over 3 years now and I still occasionally have to search for something
21:27:00gevaertsHow hard would it be to change the settings system to hide settings on demand?
21:27:30bluebrotherwell, reorganizing the menu has been discussed before. It's just nobody did anything about it (I wanted to give it a try, but there's always this time thingy ...)
21:27:46BigBambibluebrother: Oh certainly
21:28:25BigBambiBut ultimately I come back to he has missed the point - Rockbox is about control and customisability for me. Making it "user friendly" in the way he suggests reduces the amount of control you have and dumbs down rockbox, removing one of the main advantages to it
21:28:29LambdaCalculus37BigBambi: The menu now is at least much better than the previous menu Rockbox had (prior to the root menu).
21:28:49BigBambiLambdaCalculus37: I don't really agree - for me it is almost identical
21:28:52bluebrotherbesides, I also like KDE better than gnome for ... the customizability
21:29:05bluebrotherLambdaCalculus37: we don't have a root menu ;-)
21:29:25LloreanI think the main menu just adds one more level of stuff I have to go through before I can actually get to the software.
21:29:31bluebrotherand while I have no objections to the current main menu I still don't see a reason.
21:29:34LloreanBut it does help users.
21:29:39BigBambiLambdaCalculus37: I don't mind the main menu and agree overall it is better, but personally I'm not bothered. I start in the file browser and all the main menu gives me is an addition abutton click when I press menu
21:30:03BigBambi*agree overall it is better for users
21:30:09*Nico_P likes the main menu a lot
21:30:41*bluebrother thinks it's strange left in the browser goes to the main menu
21:30:50LambdaCalculus37bluebrother: Sorry... main menu. :P (Where did I get "root menu" from!?)
21:31:19*gevaerts wonders if some users would like a system where the settings menu basically is hidden, and there is a file browser that lets you select nicely named cfg files
21:31:19BigBambiThe old name
21:31:37LambdaCalculus37BigBambi: Ahh, never mind. :P
21:32:08Dieterbeis this patch implemented in 3.0 ? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8745 Aka: is the weel supposed to work on both 1G and 2G ipods?
21:32:08bluebrotherit's root_menu.c IIRC. But we agreed that we shouldn't consider it a main menu as it would need to behave slightly different then
21:32:16Lloreangevaerts: You could name .cfg files for every individual setting value and create a completely custom menu system
21:32:25bluebrotherand back that time I was working on the manual, so the term was kinda important to me ;-)
21:32:33LloreanThe biggest flaw is disk spinups for every setting change, and no graphical menus for the few that have 'em. =P
21:32:47bluebrotherLlorean: use a flash based player ;-)
21:32:54LloreanHahaha
21:33:04bluebrotherflash spinup?
21:33:25bluebrotherthe CF mod for the mini is great. No more spindowns, the "disc" is much faster and needs less power
21:33:48gevaertsLlorean: that gets complicated. I was more thinking about maybe 5 or 10 files.
21:33:51n1sI think a theme preview would be nice on larger displays but how often do you switch themes anyway?
21:34:11Lloreangevaerts: Think of the binsize decrease though, we could remove all settings menus! :-P
21:34:12gevaertsHiding the settings menu could be a setting, written by rbutil if people want that
21:34:27bluebrotherhow do you want to preview themes anyway? Plus, on hdd players this would mean a disc spinup, something we usually don't want
21:34:40gevaertsLlorean: "files/settings/volume/-1, files/settings/volume/-2, ..." ?
21:34:51XavierGris rockbox.org down, or is it only me?
21:35:15n1sXavierGr: seems down or /.'ed or something
21:35:19Lloreangevaerts: Indeed. Generated by the build system!
21:35:34gevaertsLlorean: you're mad!
21:36:07Lloreangevaerts: Actually, Bluebrother did mention that it wouldn't have the same penalties on flash. I wonder how much could be saved by cutting out the menus, for example for very, very lowmem targets.
21:36:14n1sbluebrother: smallish screenshot displayed when moving the selector to a theme, yeah, but you wpuld have to spin the disk to try the theme too
21:36:36gevaertsActually, I'd go for marking each setting as "essential" or "advanced", and allowing to hide advanced settings. They would still be settable through cfg files when hidden
21:36:51bluebrothern1s: this would only work nicely on color targets
21:37:09*gevaerts needs to dive into the settings code some day
21:37:11Nico_PI like the theme preview idea too
21:37:24pixelmaI thought there was once an agreement about not hiding setting? Though things can change...
21:37:33n1sbluebrother: yes, i agree but i don't see why we can have that feature only on those targets where it makes sense
21:37:45bluebrotherisn't the main issue with the theme that you simply don't see the wps until you play something?
21:38:27bluebrotherpixelma: well, if you kinda have a more simplistic view I wouldn't call that hiding −− given that there's an entry to show all settings
21:38:32pixelmathis reminds me... I think "Recent bookmarks" is still disabled by default, right?
21:38:44LloreanI believe so
21:38:48bluebrotherme too
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21:39:10bluebrotherand that's kinda the only dynamic entry in the main menu ... which I kinda dislike
21:39:33*Zagor pops his head in and cheers the release
21:39:45 Quit bughunter2 ("bye")
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21:40:23gevaertsZagor: we're busy working on the next one!
21:40:38Zagorthat's the spirit!
21:40:56Nico_Pn1s, bluebrother: the theme settings menu could spin the disk in advance for HD targets. most of the time a theme will be loaded anyway
21:40:58gevaertsActually, we're busy arguing about it :)
21:41:21pixelmaI don't like this item being dynamic either but at least it should be enabled
21:41:42Zagorthis is my last week of paternity leave, so from mid-next week I'll be around a bit more to aid in the arguing :-)
21:41:58amiconnNico_P: That would be a waste if I only want to change e.g. colours
21:42:27scorche|shZagor: did Bagder talk to you regarding GSoC monies?
21:42:29Nico_Pamiconn: I meant the menu where there is actually a list of themes
21:42:35Nico_P"browse themes" IIRC
21:42:40Zagorscorche|sh: no, not yet
21:42:46n1scompared to most daps on the market today we seriously lack in the bling department, not that i care much personally but it never hurt anyone to look good :)
21:42:49amiconnThis is a file browser, and hence spins up the disk anyway
21:42:57amiconn(at least if you have dircache disabled)
21:43:04Nico_Pamiconn: not with dircache enabled
21:43:27Nico_Pwhat I mean is that it could keep it spun up in order to speedup preview loading
21:43:38scorche|shZagor: do you have access to the mentor's list?
21:43:41LloreanCould we enabled a limited dircache _always_ for "Browse Plugins" "Browse Themes" etc?
21:43:41amiconnBut what's the point of dircache if you spin up the disk even if no file is loaded? It would waste battery
21:43:43Nico_Pand the subsequent theme selection too
21:44:02Zagorscorche|sh: nope. or at least not that I know of.
21:44:04LloreanTo the user they seem like menus, and delays for spinup entering them could confuse people or come back as bug reports.
21:44:07amiconnLlorean: Dircache is a global thing, not a browser thing
21:44:13Nico_Pamiconn: the point of dircache is for the "real" file browser IMHO
21:44:13Lloreanamiconn: As it stands now.
21:44:24LloreanWe could cache those lists separately though.
21:44:34amiconnLlorean: And the way it is implemented I don't see how this could be changed in a sane way
21:44:34scorche|shZagor: hrm...i shall mail you, i guess...bjorn at haxx?
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21:44:44Zagorscorche|sh: yup
21:44:49amiconnDircache is at the filesystem level
21:45:01Lloreanamiconn: I don't mean necessarily using dircache itself.
21:45:07LloreanWe could have a separate, very simple caching for these lists.
21:45:16LloreanIf dircache is disabled.
21:45:30amiconnThe browser caches the last used dir
21:45:38n1sOr we could do like the beast OF and always spin the disk while in menus! :P
21:45:48gevaertsYou need to be careful with that. People can manipulate those files from the file browser
21:45:52amiconnThere was that idea to extend this into an lru cache, caching as many dirs as fit there
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21:46:24amiconnLlorean, n1s: I think what we need is some visual (and optionally audible?) indication that something happens
21:46:44amiconnThe gui once was much better in that respect, and has gotten worse over time
21:46:45Nico_Pindeed. a throbber would be nice :)
21:47:08n1syes, instant feedback is nice
21:47:37amiconnThose devs who added all that fancy stuff obviously didn't pay much attention on the order in which things happen
21:47:52 Quit beta2k (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:48:06amiconnEven a status bar update every now and then would help already
21:48:31amiconnRight now, the status bar sometimes becomes completely invisible until after a spinup...
21:48:52Nico_Pone thing I also find annoying is the flaky repaint when I leave the WPS context menu/playlist
21:49:08amiconn(fancy stuff == {icons, colours, headlines...})
21:49:15Nico_Pof course I'm probably partly responsible for it
21:49:51amiconnLlorean: Btw, that lru idea would even work on archos
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21:50:23amiconnWe have that 'max files in dir' limit, which defines the browser directory list cache size
21:51:09amiconnBut most dirs don't get even near that limit, even with my fairly low setting. The rest of the buffer is wasted right now
21:51:26Lloreanlru might work
21:51:39amiconnyep
21:51:48LloreanIt'd at least improve tihngs
21:51:55amiconnThing is, we even have an lru implementation already (for font caching)
21:52:08LloreanOr at least, it shouldn't realistically make things any worse.
21:52:11amiconnThat lru cache can also be preloaded
21:52:28pixelmaNico_P: and vice versa - if I leave my WPS the menu redraws a bit quicker than the statusbar and I still see a part of my WPS there. Looks odd
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21:52:41amiconnSo we could preload it with plugins, themes etc
21:53:14amiconn(as much as fits)
21:54:37amiconnBut I'd really like to see the existing gui bugs fixed before that idea is going to be implemented. There's a lot of those...
21:54:52Hillshumrockbox.org works but is quite slow
21:54:56n1samiconn: then we could allow that to go _really_ high and there'd be no need for a separate dircache
21:54:56Hillshumfor me
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21:56:18bluebrotherLlorean: I don't see a point in caching "special" folders separately. I'd rather have some predefined configurations (like "average ipod user") that get preinstalled by rbutil and have them dircache enabled
21:56:46amiconnEnabling dircache by default is still unsafe
21:57:08amiconnIt pukes if there are too many files + folders
21:57:13bluebrotherwell, that would be done by a separate config file. Most users will immediately enable it ...
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21:57:27DerPapst"I think for example tetris1d (totally useless, I let you try)" wth?!
21:57:31bluebrotherexcept maybe for the guys only using the database and loading that to RAM
21:57:35 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
21:57:41amiconnThat's another thing that needs fixing
21:57:55Lloreanbluebrother: I did suggest dircache should be enabled for the release version.
21:57:56bluebrotherdatabase loaded to RAM?
21:58:43bluebrotherwell, if there are serious issues it makes sense to not have it enabled. Never had that much folders on my player
21:58:45 Quit kokoon ()
21:59:14*gevaerts looks into apps/menus/ and thinks that the menus indeed are inconsistent
21:59:47amiconnI once was quite close to the limit. Initial scan took a minute without music playing, and with music, about 5 minutes or so (on iriver H180)
22:00
22:00:11Lloreanbluebrother: If it fails, all you get is the normal behaviour as if dircache weren't enabled.
22:01:10*gevaerts starts to suspect that the settings menu actually only exists in the builds. There's no trace of it in the source
22:02:20amiconnLlorean: Nope. You'll get the initial scan *in the foreground* on every boot, iirc
22:02:54amiconnAnd since reason for breakage is that there are too many files, that initial scan will take quite long
22:03:00Lloreanamiconn: So a temporary fix would be if there wasn't enough room, to disable dircache and give notice.
22:03:28LloreanSo after the first attempt fails, it doesn't automatically re-attempt. This would allow more "safely" enabling it by default for users.
22:04:36 Quit krazykit ("later")
22:05:41bluebrotherLlorean: I can already hear the bug reports: Rockbox newly installed, it starts up and gives me an error!
22:06:14 Join yoo [0] (n=ich@86.56.33.243)
22:08:33Lloreanbluebrother: "Warning: Too many files for Dircache. See manual" on first boot only shouldn't be too bad.
22:08:35 Quit BigBambi (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:09:36 Join kronflux [0] (n=kronflux@hlfxns0161w-142177028006.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net)
22:10:05n1sWe are pretty bad at displaying useful errors in general...
22:11:02Zagorwhat's wrong with "error -11" ? ;)
22:11:27scorche|shwe need to convert 11 to hex first
22:11:42bluebrothererror -0x0b?
22:11:55*bluebrother has never seen negative hex values
22:12:19*kronflux also has not.
22:12:24Zagoractually, an error decoder (error to call trace) is something I'm contemplating as my next project
22:12:31 Join beta2k_ [0] (n=beta@d150-126-240.home.cgocable.net)
22:13:13bluebrotherI also never understood why some people write stuff like foo = 0x1234u. That's kinda superfluous IMO
22:13:33gevaertsNot always
22:14:11bluebrotherin which cases not?
22:14:36gevaertsWhat does the statusbar setting have to do with CONFIG_TUNER?
22:14:53bluebrotherit does make sense if 0x1234 has to be treated as ul. But as unsigned int?
22:15:22gevaertsbluebrother: not in straight assignments, but in #defines and combined with e.g. strict typechecking MIN/MAX macros, you need it
22:17:01bluebrotherwell, #defines is a different story. But I've seen that in straight assignments and never understood the sense of it
22:17:03pixelmagevaerts: maybe this is for the radio screen status bar (it's slightly different with the note)
22:17:07amiconnAn int is signed unless specified otherwise
22:17:28 Quit beta2k (Connection timed out)
22:17:29gevaertsCan someone who understands settings have a look at settings.c lines 547 to 549?
22:17:59gevaertsI don't understand those at all
22:18:23gevaertsah, wait
22:18:30*DerPapst waits
22:19:13*gevaerts now understands those lines, but he thinks they're a dirty hack
22:20:53 Quit bluebrother (Nick collision from services.)
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22:21:20bluebrotheramiconn: how does the compiler behave if you have unsigned int foo = 0x1234? Isn't the hex value implicitly unsigned?
22:21:35amiconnyes
22:22:15bluebrotherthat's what I meant −− does writing 0x1234u to make it explicitly unsigned sense at all?
22:22:31amiconnBut in some situations the compiler will spit a warning if you leave out the u
22:22:40amiconn"Comparison between signed and unsigned"
22:22:58bluebrothereven if you use a hex value? Interesting.
22:23:10amiconnNo, but if you use it indirectly
22:23:37amiconn...as gevaerts said, in type-checking MIN() / MAX() macros, you'd use typeof()
22:23:49amiconnAnd typeof(0x1234) is signed int
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22:30:24lfaraoneAre there any plans to develop rockbox-as-an-application on jailbroken iPhones or iPod touches?
22:31:12scorche|shwe dont make plans...people come forward witht he capability, time, and the device itself to make ports happen
22:31:56lfaraonescorche|sh: Ok, would I be able to port it if I knew only C?
22:32:58*gevaerts thinks that settings_apply() would use less RAM if struct settings_list had an apply callback
22:35:16scorche|shlfaraone: well, you would also need to know about writing applications for iPhones, a bit about SDL perhaps and you can learn about the rockbox infrastructure
22:35:55lfaraonescorche|sh: Basically it's a huge amount of work.
22:35:58lfaraonescorche|sh: right?
22:36:11DerPapstlfaraone: pretty much ;)
22:36:12HillshumObjective C to be specific
22:36:20scorche|sha regular port, perhaps, but rockbox-as-an-application isnt *that* much
22:36:24scorche|shHillshum: eh?
22:36:28DerPapstpure C
22:36:36Hillshumreally?
22:36:39DerPapstjubb
22:37:02Bagderpure C with some odd gcc extensions in use! ;-)
22:37:02Hillshumahh
22:37:06gevaertsI mean, it calls a specific function for (nearly) every setting. If you can just loop over settings[] and call all non-null functions with their associated values, you only need one more pointer in struct settings_list
22:37:21scorche|shHillshum: what was objective C supposed to describe?...the rockbox source code?
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22:37:33Hillshumiphone specific
22:37:44Bagdergevaerts: prove it! ;-P
22:37:45gevaertsAnd if nearly all settings have an apply function, that's bound to be cheaper than calling them all in a row
22:37:59Hillshumi guess just the sdk...the Rb dosn't need
22:38:31gevaertsBagder: if nobody has a good argument for why I'm wrong, I think I'll have a go :)
22:38:42gevaertsProbably not today though
22:38:46*DerPapst expects a patch in about 24 hours.
22:39:43Zagorgevaerts: an argument against is that it makes the code less straight-forward. but since we're talking against setttings.c, that argument is rather obsolete
22:40:10 Part yoo ("Verlassend")
22:41:04gevaertsZagor: If it makes it less straight-forward (which I don't think), it won't be much, and if it lets us save lots of RAM, I think it's worth it
22:41:11lfaraoneHillshum: It won't be allowed under the SDK
22:41:22lfaraoneHillshum: because it duplicates itunes functionality.
22:41:58lfaraoneHillshum: Recently, a person created an app to download podcsts one had subscribed to. That's 100x less threatening to apple's model.
22:42:10lfaraoneHillshum: and it was rejected.
22:42:36Zagorgevaerts: settings.c favors space over readability
22:42:49gevaerts:)
22:43:06gevaertsI don't think it's the most space efficient though
22:43:16Zagorso I doubt you'll be able to make much addition damage :)
22:43:47 Quit Strife89 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:43:55 Part lfaraone ("thanks for all the fish")
22:44:14gevaertsWe want the smallest possible code in the most maintainable way, and I think settings reaches neither of those. I'll have a go at proving that
22:44:37Zagorno objections from me
22:44:49 Quit {phoenix} (Remote closed the connection)
22:45:28bluebrotherdomonoky: any objections against rbutil m1.0.7 "3.0 ready"?
22:45:58domonokygo for it :-)
22:46:02gevaertsbluebrother: when I tried last night the rockbox.zip install worked, but the full install didn't
22:46:26bluebrothergevaerts: that's kinda strange −− full install will always get a bleeding edge build
22:46:41*gevaerts tries again
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22:48:16DerPapstZagor: can you look at http://pastebin.com/m54440bbb (irc reader patch) Since i've never did any perl stuff before that part might be not so good but it improves the reader a lot (tested).
22:49:26 Join Strife89 [0] (n=michael@204.116.245.152)
22:49:34ZagorDerPapst: looking
22:49:42DerPapstZagor: thanks :)
22:49:57 Quit Schmo ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
22:50:36amiconngevaerts: Only the minority of settings functions has an apply function
22:50:38 Quit tvelocity (Connection reset by peer)
22:51:07gevaertsamiconn: ok, in that case it's probably not a win. I'll still have a look though
22:51:48amiconnThose affecting apps code don't need it, 'cause apps code is allowed to read global_settings directly. Settings affecting firmware code need apply functions
22:53:30ZagorDerPapst: i'm not so sure enabling joins per default is such a great idea. it adds a lot of noise.
22:54:15DerPapstZagor: ok. but it should be hidden with js and not with CSS
22:54:51DerPapstsince this way you'd overwrite the user settings
22:56:52*amiconn would be in favour of that default
22:57:18*Bagder added manuals to the release page
22:57:24amiconnBut my main complaint is that the log reader doesn't keep settings (or at least this setting)
22:57:45Nico_Pre rockbox as an app on the iphone, it might not be that hard
22:57:49DerPapstamiconn: if this patch is applied it should keep its settings
22:57:57Zagoramiconn: that's due to my crappy javascript.
22:58:03Nico_P... at least for jailbroken devices
22:58:13 Quit Rondom (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:58:20Nico_PBagder: do you know why rockbox.org is slow?
22:58:33Bagderno...
22:58:44Nico_Phigh load maybe? :)
22:58:50Bagder150 apache processes!
22:59:02Nico_Pthat's a lot?
22:59:04Zagoryikes
22:59:08DerPapsteveryone wanting the 3.0 release ;)
22:59:09Bagderour max i believe
22:59:32Bagderthat's a lot
22:59:37Bagderwe use to have around 40-45
22:59:38Nico_Phehe, nice :)
23:00
23:00:09Nico_PI hope we can get 3.0-enabled rbutil bins soon
23:00:17gevaertsbluebrother: it tries build.rockbox.org/dist/build-h10_5gbmtp/rockbox.zip, which fails
23:00:52*domonoky wonders if genlang.cgi works correctly with the revision the 3.0. release has in the rockbox-info.txt :-)
23:01:38gevaertsbluebrother: the working download gets /dist/build-h10_5gb/rockbox.zip instead
23:02:04gevaertsAlso, shouldn't the full install on the first tab install the release?
23:02:10bluebrothergevaerts: just noticed that ... looks like nobody noticed the mtp vs. ums issue :(
23:02:19Bagderhttp://lifehacker.com/5054229/rockbox-30-supercharges-your-mp3-player
23:02:23Bagderhttp://ostatic.com/173446-blog/rockbox-3-0-released-quietly
23:02:43*Nico_P was reading those just now
23:02:54bluebrothergevaerts: I agree partly. As you are supposed to use it for upgrading too it does make sense to install the latest build
23:02:55Bagderplenty referers from them atm
23:03:40gevaertsbluebrother: maybe it just needs to offer the same choice
23:03:42bluebrotherideally the user has to select that. Also, not having an update button on the first tab is a bit weird too
23:04:02Bagder"Evidently the Rockbox developers have some strange ideas about actually working on the code, though; they haven't gotten around to the promotional side of things yet."
23:04:08bluebrotherI'm quite a bit unhappy in how the quick start tab works right now
23:04:18Bagdermaybe we'll get there in another three years!
23:04:19Nico_PBagder: that's from Corbet ;)
23:04:22gevaertsIt says "This is the recommended method for new installations"
23:04:23bluebrotherwho needs to promote?
23:04:25 Join culture [0] (n=sam@cpc1-bele3-0-0-cust658.belf.cable.ntl.com)
23:04:25domonokyyes, we need to rework it sometime.. :-)
23:04:28Bagderyes
23:04:40Nico_PBagder: maybe the 3.0 news item could also have a link to the release notes page?
23:04:46gevaertsAnd I think we want to recommend 3.0 for new people
23:04:47 Quit mcuelenaere ()
23:04:51bluebrotherwe do have release notes?
23:05:06Nico_Pthey're not really up to scratch yet
23:05:09bluebrothergevaerts: true. Will look into it. Rbutil coming a bit later won't hurt.
23:05:19Nico_Phttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseNotes30
23:05:29bluebrotheralso, the h10 mtp vs ums issue is really a bad thing :/
23:05:34Nico_PI'm not sure about the usefulness of having the credits there btw
23:05:46 Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@195.167.65.109)
23:07:10 Quit miepchen^schlaf_ ()
23:08:29*Bagder starts a 3.0 voice build
23:10:22DerPapstZagor: http://pastebin.com/m45f00fd this probably does the trik. this way you can enable/disable joins with CSS again without overwriting the usersettings
23:10:43 Join massiveH [0] (n=massiveH@ool-44c48a1e.dyn.optonline.net)
23:10:46Bagderhttp://www.programaslivres.net/2008/09/24/rockbox-30/
23:10:55bluebrotherhmm, those todo marks on the release notes are a bit ... weird
23:11:32bluebrothermaybe we should try to put all stuff in order before announcing the next release (i.e. already have builds done and distributed to the mirrors, etc.)?
23:11:34Hillshumthe ostatic one has a fact or two off..
23:11:41Nico_Pbluebrother: I agree
23:12:47 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p579EC9F9.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:13:27bluebrotherit could even make sense to decide a time frame in advantage. Like decide an internal release date, and have the official release one week later
23:13:40Hillshumyeah
23:14:56Nico_Pbluebrother: I've edited the release notes slightly
23:15:01Bagderwell, I think I now have most of the scripts done so next time things will be more automatic
23:17:11amiconnehm...
23:18:50Nico_Pamiconn: what?
23:18:59amiconnSee build table...
23:19:11*domonoky just fixed this h10_5gbmtp download issue ins svn..
23:19:26 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
23:19:45 Join Lambduh [0] (n=Lambda@12-203-112-233.client.mchsi.com)
23:19:50amiconnThis might happen when hand-porting fixes from one tree to another ... sorry :\
23:19:50bluebrothernice :)
23:20:12domonokywe have just too many different namings for our targets.. :-)
23:20:22*Bagder offers 1680 points on a silver plate
23:20:44gevaertsIt's one of the most consistent reds I've seen though
23:21:35Nico_PBagder: what do you think about adding a link to the release notes in the front page news item and maybe on the download page?
23:21:40 Quit martin` (Remote closed the connection)
23:21:42bluebrothereven the numbers are equally distributed :)
23:22:22BagderNico_P: a good idea, I just wanted most of the "todo" items on the release notes to get fixed but perhaps I should jsut go ahead
23:22:49Nico_PBagder: I've fixed some and removed others. I'm about to deal with the known bugs
23:23:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:23:58 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:24:20bluebrotherwtf ...? now rbutil crashes upon exit?
23:25:07bluebrotherah, might be caused by rockbox.org being slow and objects not getting cleaned up properly. Still bad.
23:26:56 Quit reacocard (".")
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23:32:42ilembitovHi, all. Are there any plans to support iPod Shuffle? I mean additional codecs, etc.
23:32:54BigBambino
23:33:04Bagderilembitov: feel free to go ahead, we won't stop you!
23:33:13BigBambiThe first gen ipod shuffle has a cpu without a freely available compiler doesn't it?
23:33:19Bagderyes
23:33:37Bagdernot to mention how the RE work with no screen is a lot harder
23:33:42BigBambithat too
23:33:43 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:33:55DerPapstand i wouldn't wondr if the 2nd and 3rd gen nanos are encrypted too
23:34:13BigBambiI'm be shocked if they weren't
23:34:17BigBambi*I'd
23:34:37*Llorean thought there were only two gens of Shuffle, and thought we knew 2G and 3G Nanos were encrypted already
23:35:09BigBambiI misread DerPapst's post with shuffle for nano
23:35:18DerPapsterr
23:35:21BigBambiAnd just assumed there was a 3g shuffle I didn't know about
23:35:26DerPapsti meant shuffles ;)
23:35:28DerPapstsorry
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23:36:37DerPapstaccording to the iPL wiki (yes i have a copy) there is an old gcc compiler for the DSP56000 ftp://nic.funet.fi/pub/ham/dsp/dsp56k-tools/
23:37:00 Join Nibbler [0] (n=Nibbler@e181094136.adsl.alicedsl.de)
23:38:02DerPapstthere is a 3rd generation shuffle. it looks the (almost?) the same as the 2nd generation. no idea about the internals.
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23:38:59gevaertsIs that gcc version 1.37?
23:39:20DerPapstthe wiki just states that it's old ;)
23:39:30*ameyer points out the obvious ancientness
23:39:43DerPapstso 1.37 would be pretty old ;)
23:39:51samdouglasI am trying to get Rockbox running on an Olympus mrobe 100, however with the latest current and all the daily builds I tried, I have no sound output
23:39:56*ameyer guesses circa 1993
23:40:31gevaertsameyer: Jun 8 1992 UNIX Compr. Tar dsp56k-gcc.tar.Z 1975Kb
23:41:18ameyerwow... gcc.gnu.org says 1.37 came out February 11, 1990
23:41:48DerPapstheh. so gcc 1.37 is already mature ^^
23:42:18ameyermy first guess was 1990, but something inside me said "it can't be that old, can it?"
23:43:20gevaertsNot surprisingly, the build system doesn't know about linux
23:43:21 Quit shotofadds (Operation timed out)
23:44:05 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
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23:44:31Nico_Pthe MD5sum plugin isn't included in the release, right?
23:44:40gevaertsno
23:47:05Nico_POK, I've added a list of known bugs to the release notes page
23:48:52*Bagder copies 26 voice zips to the download server master
23:49:40markunBagder: which TTS did you use?
23:49:46Bagderthe same as always
23:49:47*bluebrother thinks rbutil needs improved support for release isntallations
23:50:09Bagderfestival
23:50:53ameyeris that the one that sounds like a drunken scottish guy?
23:51:59Nico_PBagder: what do you think should be done with the MajorChanges page? "fork" it to MajorChangesIn3.0, or divide it in sections?
23:52:14markunBagder: with one of the mbrola voices?
23:52:14BagderI think sections is the way
23:52:27Bagderisn't that for espeak?
23:52:42BagderI use plain debian installed festival
23:52:52BagderI've never even heard them myself! ;-)
23:53:21markunBagder: you can also use mbrola voices with espeak, but I've used them with festival in the past
23:53:28Bagderaha
23:54:53Nico_Prasher: I'm afraid I might break your MajroChanges RSS feed with some changes
23:54:53 Quit FOAD ("I'll be back")
23:55:27*Bagder goes to bed
23:56:32rasherNico_P: In which way? I think I designed it to just keep sending what it has, if it fails to parse the page
23:56:37rasherSo it shouldn't break too badly
23:57:04markunBagder: good night
23:57:16toffe82Nico_P: don't you think it would be good to modify the "releases" page on the wiki, it still said no current release
23:57:16Nico_Prasher: let's hope so :)
23:57:26rasherNico_P: what are you going to do with it?
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23:57:35Nico_Prasher: add sections
23:57:41Lloreanmarkun: The samples I made at one point in the past were done with espeak
23:57:48Lloreanespeak+mbrola sounds really good (IMHO)
23:58:07LloreanI think espeak pronounces better than festival, at least.
23:58:08Nico_P"Major changes since version 3.0" and "Major changes in version 3.0 since version 2.5" (anyone got a better title?)
23:58:24 Join FOAD [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net)
23:58:39rasherNothing stopping us from creating various sorts of voices for 3.0
23:58:46 Quit Zagor ("Leaving")

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