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#rockbox log for 2008-09-30

00:00:36Lloreandereine: I'd second the c200 or e200 if you're looking for a small, flash player.
00:02:10 Join quelsaruk [0] (n=kvirc@84.122.193.15.dyn.user.ono.com)
00:03:38 Quit Nico_P (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:03:59 Quit massiveH ("Leaving")
00:04:30confusedscorche i tried WinFF several times now but i cant change the size of the video to be 176 x 132 so it will fit my ipod.... please can u tell me what im doing wrong
00:04:59 Join lasser [0] (n=chatzill@Wb954.w.pppool.de)
00:05:17linuxstbconfused: This isn't really on-topic for here, but what happens when you try? Also, can't you just use the provided (on the wiki I think) preset?
00:05:18*kugel just reads about WinARM
00:05:49kugelSounds promising to compile rockbox natively on a windows machine
00:07:08confusedok when i try i can change only options like 4:3 and so on or if i want it for ipod and other mp3's (it never says ipod nano) and the wiki is making me more confused
00:07:38confusedcuz the way its explained on the wiki u kinda gotta know what to do to understand it
00:08:36 Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@foo.eternallybored.org)
00:09:06bluebrotherkugel: ever heard of yagarto?
00:09:29kugelnot yet
00:09:38confusedso can u help me linuxstb
00:09:39bluebrotheryou'll still get issues with shells and possibly missing scripting stuff
00:10:00Lloreanconfused: Please use real words like "you" here, as per the channel guidelines.
00:10:16confusedok
00:10:18 Quit freqmod_qu (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:10:25Lloreanconfused: The current version of WinFF should have Rockbox presets, but you'll need to look through its documentation for how to use it.
00:10:26linuxstbconfused: No, I've never used winff. I would suggest searching the winff forums, and if you can't find an answer, post a question
00:11:08bluebrotherthinking of tools like sed, awk and stuff. Maybe running from inside msys would help with this
00:11:15confusedalright thank you
00:11:48kugelbluebrother: yea, msys was my first thought too
00:11:51 Join mercora [0] (n=mercora@91-64-187-234-dynip.superkabel.de)
00:12:41mercorahey there is the link to the ui simulator down on the extra section of the website or is it me ? where could i find the sim ?
00:12:45Lloreankugel: amiconn has recently had success getting the cross compilers and such set up in interix.
00:12:55 Join freqmod_qu [0] (i=quassel@2001:700:300:1800:213:d3ff:fee9:5ed0)
00:13:16Lloreanmercora: Generally you should compile your own from the latest source. We don't provide a binary of it, and third party ones may be out of date and mislead you.
00:13:28 Quit bmbl ("Woah!")
00:13:56mercorais there documentation on setting up the development environment ?
00:14:09Lloreanmercora: What do you want to use the sim for, btw?
00:14:24Lloreanmercora: And yes, it should be linked in the developers section of the wiki docs index, I think.
00:15:07 Quit bluebrother ("anyway, time for sleep")
00:16:39mercoraLlorean: just for creating a theme but who knows what else i want to do with it is it a full emulator for the software or just UI ?
00:17:15kugelI can't install interix on my xp64.
00:17:32kugelat least the setup aborted telling me that
00:17:54 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:18:07Lloreanmercora: It's a UI simulator, no emulation happens which is why we don't call it an emulator.
00:18:33 Quit faemir (Remote closed the connection)
00:20:07 Quit lol3izer_ ("out")
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00:20:27mercoraLlorean: amkes sense to me thanks for the help ;)
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00:23:32confusedthank you Llorean your advice worked and I got my video loaded :)
00:25:15 Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat")
00:25:51 Quit herrwaldo ("Konversation terminated!")
00:27:25 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
00:28:32 Join RyoS [0] (n=ryo@cl-1804.ham-01.de.sixxs.net)
00:28:35RyoShi all
00:28:55Dementiomorning
00:29:07RyoSmaybe the answer is asked everyday 10x, but: powerhandling on iAudio X5 - is there anything going around anymore? :/
00:29:34Dementioum....
00:29:35RyoSi just changed my battery to a 1100mAh pack, and it gives me 7hours 33minutes, just like original..
00:29:52Dementioi dunno, all i know is ipods
00:29:53LloreanRyoS: Did you run it to test?
00:29:53RyoStesting it for almost 4 days now, trying OF now..
00:29:54Dementio:/
00:29:56Dementiooh
00:29:57Dementionvm
00:29:58RyoSLlorean: yes
00:30:17LloreanRyoS: So you ran the player from full to empty and it the battery benchmark file only gave you 7h 33m?
00:30:30LloreanRockbox consistently gets better battery life than the original firmware for other testers on the X5
00:31:11RyoSsometimes less i think.. today i charged it fully, updated to 3.0 release, went to work. something between 3-4h the battery ran low on me
00:31:14RyoS:/
00:31:19 Quit ender` (" I have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.")
00:31:27gevaertsThat's definitely not normal
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00:34:09gevaertsMy X5L gets nearly 28 hours, and if http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DeviceChart is correct that one has 2250mAh, so about twice yours
00:34:20RyoShttp://rafb.net/p/UgkCto84.html
00:34:26 Join SUSaiyan` [0] (n=SUSaiyan@cc84863-b.zwoll1.ov.home.nl)
00:34:35RyoSthose are the latest logs, if you might want to have a look at the batterybench log
00:34:44 Quit SUSaiyan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:35:28RyoShttp://www.batteryupgrade.com/product_detail.php?productId=63549911 <- this is the battery i purchased
00:35:44gevaertsWhat sort of files are you playing? Do you use the equalizer?
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00:37:06RyoSequalizer is put to normal i guess, cant check now since i am charging to test the OF, but i never directly access it
00:38:36 Quit quelsaruk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:39:56gevaertsWhich codec do you use?
00:40:13LloreanRyoS: And during that period you didn't touch the player (no skipping tracks, volume adjustments, etc)?
00:40:21RyoSnope
00:40:27RyoSgevaerts: mp3 mostly
00:40:52RyoSgot some albums as flac.. but i dont use them for battery bench
00:42:22gevaertsok. mp3 should be fine. 7:30 definitely sounds too short to me for mp3 on a new 1100mAh battery
00:42:32lasserPerhaps its a stupid question but I really can't find anything about it: How can I apply more than one patch to rockbox (#6800 and #8363)?
00:42:51gevaertslasser: just apply both of them
00:43:17RyoSgevaerts: so, anything i could try tomorrow after testing the OF?
00:43:18Lloreangevaerts: Looking at the bench, another run ran about an hour longer, there's definitely some inconsistency in playback time too
00:44:29gevaertsRyoS: was the volume set the same (more or less) for all tests?
00:44:58RyoSgevaerts: nope :/ something around 0 and -5 is standard
00:45:05RyoSmy headphones are pretty loud
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00:45:41RyoSso, fully charged, i will start my test with OF now :)
00:45:47gevaertshm. I get a 15% difference in runtime between maximum and medium volume
00:45:50RyoSi hate how it looks :S
00:46:16gevaertsActually, that difference is on gigabeat...
00:46:47 Quit MethoS-- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:48:35gevaertsLlorean: part of the difference is the starting and ending capacities. Those account for about 20 minutes I think. That leaves another 40 for unknown reasons
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00:53:34soapMarcGuay, I need to expand said wiki page to include a place to put info regarding that patch. We (I) need to get the collected information regarding what works and what doesn't out of that forum thread and into the wiki. I, personally, would not have deleted that entry. It is my fault there is not a proper place to put the information, not the submitter's fault for using the only form found to add said information.
00:54:15lassergevaerts: yesterday night the patches ran into an error, today all seems to be ok... I knew it was stupid :-( Nevertheless thank you.
00:54:42gevaertslasser: if the patches touch the same code, order may matter
00:55:23mmadiasoap which thread?
00:55:30MarcGuaysoap: I figured you would be combing the thread at some point. In the meantime, it's not providing false information and the wiki history is easy to farm.
00:56:27MarcGuayPS: I'm more than willing to help.
00:56:33Lloreansoap: Re the accessory protocol patch, have there been any negative side effects mentioned by people?
00:56:41soapnegative? No.
00:57:18soapBut no reports of any sort involving behavior outside testing with accessories. I do not know how many people use it as their primary build.
00:57:28LloreanCan you think of any reason why it shouldn't go into SVN assuming everything's separated so it doesn't affect other targets?
00:58:36soapI'll admit not having personally tested it myself, as I do not own a single iPod-specific accessory. How about you give me a week of running it as my main build and let me get back to you? I can ask the same thing of the users in the forum thread.
00:59:04lassergevaerts: is there a rule for which patch I have to apply first? 1. Lowest FS# 2. Higher FS# 3. Highest FS#?
00:59:25RyoSlasser: nope
01:00
01:00:08gevaertslasser: if you get conflicts, you can try a different order, or fix them by hand. That's about as far as rules go
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01:00:47Lloreansoap: Sounds good to me. I'd just like to push it in sooner rather than later so we have time to stumble across any kinks and give them lots of time for fixing.
01:02:43kugelLlorean: winarm seems to work
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01:03:19Lloreankugel: winarm isn't a solution on its own.
01:03:44kugelwell, together with msys
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01:03:59LloreanHow were you planning on compiling the SH1 and m68k targets?
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01:04:34kugelI didn't plan anything. I'm just interested in how this turns out
01:04:53LloreanWell, what's the goal exactly?
01:06:21LloreanYou'd mentioned earlier trying to compile Rockbox natively, but for it to be a suitable alternate environment it should really let people have the option to test-compile all targets since patches often have unintended consequences the first time they're written.
01:06:37 Quit neddy (Success)
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01:11:51MarcGuaysoap: An obvious suggestion for the Accessories table, replace the date with the revision number.
01:13:08soapYea, but that is confusing as well.
01:13:41soapI'd rather it be "0" for pre accessory support. "1" for rev.1 accessory support, "2" for rev.2 accessory support, etc.
01:13:56 Quit MethoS_ (Success)
01:14:06soapThat, of course, would necessitate the posting on that wiki page of what accessory support revision we are on.
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01:18:30soapalso need to add columns for all the features tested with and without accessory power supply turned on. Or at the minimal one - "Is Accessory Power Supply Needed To Make This Stinking Device Work?" (but that long of a title would bust the formatting)
01:18:57nutrientmani loaded rockbox on my ipod 3g, it works fine, except that the computer will not recognize it now. does anyone know how to make the computer see it as a removable disk agasin? what i did was to format the ipod with fat32, copy .rockbox and use ipod patcher and copy a couple of mp3's as a test.
01:19:07MarcGuayWould the pre-support info have any value once it's in trunk? Answering my own question: it would for 3.0 users. Hmm. I was also thinking we could easily tell what accesorry support revision we were at by the main RB revision number if it was noted what subversion entry added it.
01:19:47Lloreansoap: Does the revision number matter?
01:20:06LloreanI mean, as long as there aren't later revisions breaking support for devices, it should just be "without patch" and "with patch"
01:20:16soapIt also would have value just so we can keep track of /when/ an accessory was tested. If we do not note that an accessory was tested back in the dark ages then we do not know we need a retester.
01:20:42LloreanWhy don't we get it in SVN, then just require an SVN revision. ;)
01:21:00MarcGuayI was assuming we were going with that model.
01:21:15soapLlorean, the revision number matters for just the reasons I outlined above. If we do not know /when/ in the course of support attempts it was tested we don't know if retesting is needed.
01:21:22 Quit coatman ("Buh Bye")
01:21:45soapYou are right, SVN revision number does tell all. It is just a harder-to-quickly-parse number.
01:21:54Lloreansoap: I'm not sure I follow that. How do we know retesting is ever needed?
01:22:06soap(This is the same positional argument we had over WPS syntax revision numbers)
01:22:17LloreanIf a device works, it works. We won't know it stops working until someone tries it, and it doesn't work, at which point it's already been retested.
01:22:32LloreanUntil such time as someone tries it, it's in a state of "old, but there's no real reason it shouldn't work as far as we know"
01:22:37soapRetesting is clearly needed if an accessory was reported non-functioning 1 revision in accessory support ago.
01:22:52LloreanAh, forward re-testing.
01:22:59soapyou're thinking of positive reports, I'm thinking of negative reports.
01:23:04soapyep
01:23:25pixelmanutrientman: do you connect while Rockbox is running or from an off state?
01:23:37soapand, the way the patch progressed, I think there is a _high_ possibility of regression.
01:24:05Lloreansoap: Yeah, but regression will result in self-testing anyway.
01:24:20LloreanBut you're right, discovering when a non-working device starts working is different.
01:24:21soapMany of the issues appear to my untrained eye to be baud rate negotiation, and a new negotiation plan attempting to solve one accessory might very well bork another?
01:24:36Lloreansoap: I thought most of the baud-rate negotiation issues had been worked out.
01:25:36*Llorean will admit he hasn't kept track of it for a few months though.
01:26:11LloreanOne option is to *just* have working devices on the wiki, and ask people to file bug reports against non-working devices (once it's in SVN)
01:26:28LloreanAmong other things, that allows us a return-contact path once it's possible the device is fixed so we can ask the same person to re-test it.
01:26:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:26:36MarcGuayPresumably this testing will lead to a better understanding of accessory power detection as well and that menu option can be removed. IIRC it was added a temporary hack.
01:26:45soapOne of the advantages of showing non-working items on the wiki page is it allows people to see what has been tested and what hasn't.
01:27:19soapIt is not only a buyers guide for the cautious, it is a buyer's guide for the adventurous (who choose to buy an untested item).
01:27:21Lloreansoap: We could get someone to add a "peripherals" category to flyspray, and link to that search from the page.
01:27:34kugelMeh, lang.h is not found...
01:27:42soapIf I were a cautious person I would be hacked the "IpodAccessories" page didn't clearly outline what was known not to be working.
01:27:48LloreanI think using flyspray for known-bad helps to make sure we can get in contact with them again.
01:28:14soapI'm not against reporting non-working items as bugs, I just don't see why they should be removed from the one-stop lookup page.
01:28:14Lloreankugel: Why not attempt to work on a solution that's valid for all targets?
01:28:19MarcGuaysoap: It will need to be made very clear that even though a certain chart says their accessory doesn't work, new testing it required because thing have changed... People may otherwise not bother after seeing the red X.
01:28:36MarcGuay*is required
01:28:48kugelLlorean: I can start finding one for arm, then if I succeed I can try to find one for the others
01:29:12Lloreansoap: Then you don't need to worry about tracking versions, for one.
01:29:22Lloreankugel: winarm uses the wrong GCC and binutils version according to their website.
01:30:19kugelyea, I've noticed that. I have a doubt though that this is the cause of the lang.h issue
01:30:28Lloreansoap: If we have bug reports, they'll get closed when fixed. But I'm not sure how often the page would get updated to reflect the fixed bugs (much like many of our other wiki pages)
01:30:44Lloreankugel: Yes, but it does mean it won't be a recommended way to build Rockbox...
01:31:06kugelSure, but let me have some fun please
01:31:08soapI take offense at that! ;)
01:31:23soapI do pretty well keeping my pet wiki pages up-to-date.
01:31:40soapAnd I start forum threads telling other people to do it for me when I get busy. :P
01:31:45Lloreankugel: You're welcome to have all the fun you want, but please remember this is for stuff intended to forward Rockbox development. If you know it won't be used, you're basically doing the same sort of stuff as say an unsupported build. Peripherally related, but not really belonging here.
01:31:46*scorche wonders why kugel needs Llorean's permission to have "fun"
01:32:24kugelLlorean: what if the version turns out as working?
01:32:38Lloreankugel: We ask people to use the _exact_ same versions we do.
01:32:47Lloreaneven if it works, it's not the same version so it won't be a recommended method.
01:33:02MarcGuayLlorean: The problem still remains of future revisions breaking the support for previously-working certain accessories. At which point, those bugs get re-opened?
01:33:12MarcGuay-certain
01:33:14LloreanMarcGuay: Or new bugs filed, doesn't really matter.
01:33:34scorchekugel: then make a wiki page about it, dont link it anywhere else, really, put a few warnings up, and wait while it slides gently into oblivion and disuse
01:33:36LloreanMarcGuay: I'm confident people will let us know, vocally, when their accessories that used to work stop.
01:34:03soapI still think the largest issue is that I, personally, would be pissed if I bought something Rockbox knew was non-functional with my iPod and removed wiki reference to said knowledge.
01:34:06Lloreansoap: Well, it's your baby. Just offering some suggestions.
01:34:47soapno no no - We need consensus on this, I'm a worker bee, not a queen.
01:34:59LloreanI just think Flyspray tasks are, in general, more likely to be productive and useful (especially since someone with the same device can read discussion of its problems more thoroughly if there is any, etc)
01:35:30nutrientmanpixelma: thanks for the response, i figured it out. i needed to reboot and hit the ff or rew to get my ipod 3g to go into disk mode
01:35:34LloreanI think a "Known Working" page is useful, then a link that says "Devices known not to be working" and it links to flyspray filtered for open accessories tasks
01:35:52nutrientmancheers, have a nice day
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01:36:09soapLlorean, that would solve the problem.
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01:36:48Lloreansoap: I think it'd be the best hybrid solution. Makes the "known good" list easy to view, and makes the "Known bad" list be in a single location, easy for people to submit to (I think flyspray is easier than the wiki), and allows for easy contact-back.
01:37:33LloreanOf course, for that, we need an "Accessories" category in flyspray.
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01:49:16kugelobjcopy is horribly slow :(
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01:50:51kugelIs using a higher gcc version even viable to you, or do you intend to stick with the known-to-work versions for the time being?
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01:52:07kugels/viable/valuable
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01:52:57scorchekugel: is there a good reason for using a higher gcc?
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01:54:27Lloreankugel: For m68k, I don't believe the architecture is supported by GCC 4.x at all.
01:54:44amiconnit is
01:54:51Lloreanamiconn: I thought it wasn't?
01:55:00*Llorean must've misremembered.
01:55:28amiconnYou can use 4.0.x just fine. It produces slightly larger code, which is sometimes a bit slower, but in other cases significantly faster than that produced by 3.4.x
01:55:53LloreanWhy don't we use 4.0.3 for it then, too?
01:56:13amiconnI guess it's just because it didn't see much testing yet
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01:57:59kugelscorche: I haven't tested, but I would believe newer compiler versions are likely to create "better" code
01:58:00amiconn4.3.x is even supposed to bring a significant performance improvement for coldfire, but so far no one has managed to use this successfully (iirc there were issues with gcc <-> gas interaction for our coldfire variants)
01:58:14scorchekugel: and what would give you that impression?
01:58:35Lloreankugel: "are supposed to" and "are likely to" are two different suppositions.
01:59:09soapLlorean, one last thing...
01:59:25soapWhat about the "Known partially good" list? ;)
02:00
02:00:56 Quit mercora (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:03:56Lloreansoap: What does "partially good" mean?
02:04:47LambdaCalculus37kugel: I'm going to snippet your patch from eariler and remove all of the SanDisk-related patchings before I patch for the Gigabeat.
02:05:56pixelmaI believe n1s and Lear did some testing of 4.x gcc versions on coldfire but I don't remember the outcome(s)
02:06:38kugelscorche: just about every software gets better with the time
02:07:11kugelLambdaCalculus37: Well, why do you want to strip it? It's not going to be compiled anyway
02:07:34Lloreankugel: Remember, GCC supports several architectures. GCC may get better, but its ability to produce optimized code for other architectures is not necessarily consistent.
02:07:53scorchekugel: compilers and code is a bit of a different story though...
02:08:38kugelWell, I can imagine. I was just saying why I think a higher version _could_ be better
02:08:56Lloreankugel: You were saying you thought a higher version was likely to be better. Nobody denied that it _could_
02:09:14 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:09:21kugelthen why are we arguing?
02:09:50LloreanBecause some of us disagree with the "likely" statement, and you've just now changed it to "could" instead?
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02:10:30kugelOk, then I was just saying why I think a higher version is likely to better.
02:10:32servlsuserhello again
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02:10:54scorchekugel: which we are saying the "likely" bit is highly suspect
02:11:08kugelYes yes, I got that
02:11:13nossracerthank you again bigbambi for your info earlier it worked beautifully
02:11:50nossracerhowever i do have a couple of more questions
02:12:21nossraceris there anyway to get rid of the delay when i turn my volume up?
02:12:37LambdaCalculus37kugel: I've already applied FS #6800 before. Why am I going to do it again?
02:13:43Lloreannossracer: There's not normally a delay. What player is this?
02:14:08nossracersansa e250r
02:15:25nossraceri am not really sure what i did to it the other night but i have a 2gb sansa and a 2gb sd card and my player was telling me that i had almost 8,000 songs on it
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02:17:13kugelLambdaCalculus37: svn revert is your friend here
02:17:50kugelAnyway, the built I compiled with winarm on windows runs
02:18:12kugelcool
02:19:53nossraceranybody have any suggestions
02:20:22LambdaCalculus37kugel: I reverted the patch.
02:20:28LambdaCalculus37Now I'll try yours.
02:20:37kugelnice, thanks :)
02:20:43*kugel hopes it works
02:23:39kugelLambdaCalculus37: I only implemented fading down now, since fading up is done in hardware. If it works, it'd be nice if you compare both and also try different backlight brightness settings
02:23:52LambdaCalculus37http://pastebin.com/m6092d6fe
02:24:17LambdaCalculus37Doing this on OS X.
02:25:15soapLlorean, "partially good" as in some features work, some don't.
02:25:46LambdaCalculus37kugel: Let me try the patch I made from yours that only includes the Gigabeat S changes.
02:25:47Lloreansoap: I'd say those should just have open bug reports too, but I do see some value in having a way to let people know they can get *some* use out of 'em
02:25:58 Quit mmadia (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:26:02kugelLambdaCalculus37: well, you can ignore it, all hunks were applied
02:26:14nossracerhello?
02:26:29kugelthe end-of-file seems to be messed up a bit due to pastebin
02:26:58 Part Billenium
02:27:58LambdaCalculus37kugel: Well, let's find out!
02:28:07*LambdaCalculus37 hits the big red button and compiles
02:28:20kugelhehe
02:29:44*kugel happily runs a gcc4.1.1 compiled rockbox (although he noticed some warnings during compilation)
02:31:34LambdaCalculus37kugel: Speaking of warnings, I got two warnings for backlight.c
02:31:53kugelreally?
02:32:08kugelwhich?
02:32:19LambdaCalculus37http://pastebin.com/m6fb29c90
02:32:40*nossracer is showing Channel Stats for #rockbox which will be displayed publicly within 5 seconds.
02:32:46nossracerStats for: #rockbox
02:32:47nossracerModes: +cntz
02:32:48nossracerTopic: Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines
02:32:49DBUGSent KICK nossracer to server
02:32:49nossracerUsers: 140 Users
02:32:50Kick(#rockbox nossracer :No flooding!) by logbot!n=bjst@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-507a9318582de8ba
02:33:03 Join nossracer [0] (n=servlsus@207.160.166.98)
02:33:08nossracerwhoops
02:33:20nossracersorry about that guys new irc client
02:34:06*LambdaCalculus37 pets logbot and gives him a beer
02:34:38kugelLambdaCalculus37: I don't get this warning(just a weird division by zero one)
02:35:47LambdaCalculus37kugel: The universe is about to explode because of this, y'know. ;)
02:36:20nossracerwell since nobody wants to help ill be going
02:36:21LambdaCalculus37kugel: Build's almost done.
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02:36:44kugelLambdaCalculus37: I actually worry about your warning. I wonder why I don't get it
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02:44:44kugelhow can (HZ/(DEFAULT_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING / 2) be division by zero, if the target defines DEFAULT_BRIGHTNESS_SETTING with 12?
02:46:27kugelLambdaCalculus37: wait shortly before installing
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02:48:38LambdaCalculus37kugel: It's done compiling, but I'll wait (figure you'll want to check something).
02:49:06soapFWIW, initial tests on my iPod Nano show 10% longer runtime after the dual-core MP3 work. (VBR MP3 averaging 191kbps)
02:49:36kugelLambdaCalculus37: I set a parenthesis wrong. Want a new patch or should I tell you which line in backlight.c?
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02:50:37soapThat said, no WPS vs Cabbie WPS gives you 15% longer runtime.
02:51:16soap*Cabbie v2
02:51:29kugelLambdaCalculus37: http://pastebin.ca/1214234
02:51:54kugelsoap: I've heard about the same difference between showing the wps and showing the main menu
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02:53:10soapyes, kugel, that is what I mean by "no WPS" - leaving Rockbox in the menu tree instead of WPS. I wasn't very clear about that.
02:53:21soapCurious about no WPS vs empty WPS ;)
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02:53:39LambdaCalculus37kugel: Thanks for the new patch.
02:53:46*LambdaCalculus37 reverts the old one
02:53:50kugeloh, now that you repeat it, I wonder why I got it wrong :S
02:54:17Lloreansoap: I find myself wondering where a very basic wps (three non-scrolling lines, one for each of the basic tags) would land on battery life.
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02:55:30kugelI find myself wondering how much runtime would disabling wps refresh/updating with off screen yield
02:56:16kugel(on screens that are unreadable without backlight of course)
02:56:39Lloreankugel: The problem is that, in part, drawing is an additive process. The functions don't really know the overall status of the screen, IIUC, so if you disabled drawing for a period, then re-enabled it, you'd be likely to end up with artifacts.
02:57:25kugelthere's a patch on the tracker trying to implement it. On the sim you can clearly see the wps isn't updating anymore after some seconds
02:57:29LambdaCalculus37kugel: The whole entire patch is still referring to paths on your computer.
02:57:51Lloreankugel: Didn't you remove that patch from your build because it causes glitchy behaviour?
02:57:59*kugel blames Geany's version diff plugin
02:58:10kugelNo
02:58:49LloreanOh, you left it in your build, but it causes glitchy behaviour.
02:58:54kugelthe glitch is that alternating sublines are changing amazingly fast for a while after the screens turns on, but no artifacts or something
02:58:58LambdaCalculus37kugel: Didn't you use svn diff?
02:59:27Lloreankugel: have you done any battery benches to see if it actually improves things then?
02:59:30kugelLambdaCalculus37: I use a plugin for geany, my text editor. It obviously uses absolute pathes
03:00
03:00:01kugelLlorean: No, but I could do one
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03:01:54soapI want to see the battery bench on a gigabeat with 24 band EQ!
03:02:39kugelLambdaCalculus37: did you managed to find a fitting -p parameter?
03:02:39*LambdaCalculus37 usually sticks to svn diff
03:03:06LambdaCalculus37kugel: I edited the patch to fix the paths instead.
03:03:23kugelwell, something like patch -p5 < patch.diff would've done it too
03:03:28LambdaCalculus37Big reason why... just in case. ;)
03:04:03kugelLambdaCalculus37: the plugin is supposed to use svn diff. I don't know exactly though
03:08:33Bawitdabaanyone ever shut off a rockboxed ipod video and not able to turn it on?
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03:08:44Bawitdabai had to hold menu and select to clear it out and turn it on
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03:08:57Bawitdabai tried plugging it in and everything it was like a dead rock
03:09:16soaphappens to me about 5-10% of the time.
03:09:22Bawitdabareally?
03:09:35Bawitdabau just hold menu and select to turn it on right?
03:09:36soapit is the famous apple bootloader bug.
03:09:45soapyes...
03:09:56Bawitdabathat doesnt erase anything tho right?
03:10:03soapit erases nothing.
03:10:07Bawitdabaah ok
03:10:07kugelLambdaCalculus37: Indeed, -p5 was a decent guess
03:10:09LambdaCalculus37kugel: Now it applied clean.
03:10:21Bawitdabai remember holding some sequence to format it long time ago
03:10:31kugelsounds good
03:10:34LambdaCalculus37kugel: I fixed the paths anyway, because I wanted to have one that's Flyspray-ready.
03:10:34soapthe Apple bootloader appears to believe there is a super-low battery condition and refuses to power on until the battery trickle (?) charges up.
03:10:49Bawitdabalol
03:11:16Bawitdabais it possible to install rockbox on a pc/laptop with linux/unix/bsd?
03:11:21soapI know of no format sequence. Menu + Select is the hardware reset, just like a push-pin in the back of a H3x0, or long press of "power" on an e2x0
03:11:24kugelLambdaCalculus37: Is it a guideline to only update "-p0" patches? I've read it's preferred but not necessary
03:11:32kugels/update/upload
03:11:55LambdaCalculus37kugel: And in return, here's the FS-ready patch: Index: firmware/export/config-c200.h
03:11:55LambdaCalculus37===================================================================
03:11:55LambdaCalculus37−−- firmware/export/config-c200.h(Revision 18669)
03:11:55DBUGSent KICK LambdaCalculus37 to server
03:11:55LambdaCalculus37+++ firmware/export/config-c200.h(Working copy)
03:11:55LambdaCalculus37@@ -32,6 +32,9 @@
03:11:55***Alert Mode level 1
03:11:55DBUGsent MODE #rockbox +b *!*n=Lambda*@*.hsd1.nj.comcast.net
03:11:55LambdaCalculus37 /* define this if you have a light associated with the buttons */
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03:11:55***Alert Mode level 2
03:11:55Mode"#rockbox +b *!*n=Lambda*@*.hsd1.nj.comcast.net " by logbot (n=bjst@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-507a9318582de8ba)
03:12:02Bawitdabaouch
03:12:11kugeldoh
03:12:29*Bawitdaba slaps logbot around a bit with a large trout
03:12:52kugelgood to know that devs are handled equally :P
03:12:59Bawitdabalmao
03:13:40kugelhm
03:13:45kugelwill he come back?
03:14:01Mode"#rockbox +o Llorean " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:14:11 Quit MethoS- (Remote closed the connection)
03:14:12Bawitdabawhen he gets unbanned
03:15:33Bawitdabai have a really old sony vaio mini laptop that was designed for windows me i want to format it and use it for a mp3 player in my car
03:15:43Bawitdabaso i dont have to take my ipod with me
03:15:47Mode"#rockbox -b *!*n=Lambda*@*.hsd1.nj.comcast.net " by Llorean (n=DarkkOne@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
03:16:02Bawitdabacan rockbox be installed on a pc or has anyone tried?
03:16:24Bawitdabafrom the source i mean
03:16:30kugelBawitdaba: There's the approach of "rockbox-as-an-app"
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03:16:37soapthere is the simulator
03:16:51kugelbut it's not finished yet, so for the time being you can use one of the several ui simulators
03:16:52Bawitdabaright
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03:17:08kugeleven though using them will just be a pain, especially in the car
03:17:23Bawitdababut technically it is sort of possible
03:17:35Mode"#rockbox -o Llorean " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:17:38Bawitdabait might just not be as fully functional as normally
03:17:46LambdaCalculus37kugel: Does the patch look good?
03:18:40kugeljup
03:19:09kugelbut better use the -pX parameter and do "svn diff" after if I happen to hand such a patch out again. it's safer
03:20:12LambdaCalculus37Yes.
03:21:57***Alert Mode OFF
03:22:34LambdaCalculus37But a -p0 is the best way to go, as I said before.
03:24:28kugelLambdaCalculus37: sure, I'm just looking into the source of the plugin to fix it
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03:35:30Bawitdabanow all i need to do is get some new ear buds
03:35:58Bawitdabathe ones that come with ipod suck so bad
03:36:05Bawitdabacan't believe ive used them for this long
03:36:36LambdaCalculus37Bawitdaba: That's off-topic talk here.
03:36:56Bawitdabalies
03:39:36advcomp2019Bawitdaba, read the topic
03:41:05kugelLambdaCalculus37: any updates?
03:41:22MarcGuayI think the manual needs to be less afraid of Rockboxc Utility, if we're going to call it the recommended install method. The wording clearly scares some people off of it, I know it did for me.
03:43:33LloreanMarcGuay: I think it just really hasn't been adjusted yet from when it was the experimental install process
03:45:15LambdaCalculus37kugel: Sorry, watching TV. I left another Gigabeast build compiling in the meantime.
03:46:50LambdaCalculus37kugel: No warnings thus far.
03:48:37BeanerI installed the rockbox software on my 30gb ipod 5g, everything worked tits for a handful of days, then last night I was showing it off to a friend, noticed the battery was getting low, shut it down, and later threw it on my wall charger. Once I hooked it to the charger it fired up and went into the standard ipod format, I left it charging overnight, then in the morning pulled it off, it...
03:48:39Beaner...shut down and now will not fire up at all. I get zero response from any button mashing, zero response hookin it to my computer, zero response putting it back on the wall charger, nothing at all, its acting like a fancy paper weight now!
03:49:49Beanerany ideas would be greatly appreciated, thank you, and nothing in the forums matches my problems, i believe the software i used was the current build as of a few days ago
03:50:45kugelYou used the OF to charge. So, any damage is unlikely to be caused by rockbox
03:51:05kugelHave you tried hard-resetting your ipod?
03:52:39Beanerwhat is the hard reset combo again,
03:52:52Beanerlock unlock, then menu and ?
03:53:17Beanersorry i can find it on apples site
03:53:24kugelcan't help you on that one. i don't own an ipod
03:53:38MarcGuayDoes the Gigabeat S charging patch only charge via AC? Leaving it connected through USB seems to let it die...
03:53:45LambdaCalculus37MENU+SELECT.
03:53:57Beanerok thank you ill try that,
03:54:19LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: IIRC yes, only through AC.
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03:55:09MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: That explains a lot, thanks. :) I'm going to re-read the task now because I swear I read that it charges through both...
03:56:12LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Me too, but it's good to double check. :)
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03:58:20kugelLambdaCalculus37: ping :)
03:58:33LambdaCalculus37kugel: Pong :)
03:58:35LambdaCalculus37Still here.
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03:58:42kugelgood.
03:59:20kugelstill building?
03:59:29LambdaCalculus37It's done. Let me install.
03:59:46kugelI would even do it for you, if I could!
04:00
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04:05:02LambdaCalculus37kugel: The brightness is goofed up.
04:05:15feyd2blakHi All...just a quick question....I have just installed rockbox 3.0 from file (not using the GUI) and the theme settings, images etc, are not displaying, any ideas??? gigabeat F20
04:05:37kugelLambdaCalculus37: how do you mean?
04:05:39MarcGuayfeyd2blak: The themes that came with it should work.
04:05:59feyd2blakin the play screen that is, the menu displays the background and the menu items OK...
04:06:15MarcGuayAre you loading them through Settings->Theme Settings?
04:06:17feyd2blakyeh thats what I thought
04:06:26LambdaCalculus37kugel: I have the brightness setting at 20 on the backlight. But it's much darker than it should be.
04:06:44kugelhm ok
04:06:47LambdaCalculus37Plus, the backlight fading is very erratic. The backlight brigtens to max before turning off.
04:06:53feyd2blakI extracted the .rockbox file across same as I used to do and now have the issue
04:07:01MarcGuayfeyd2blak: Themes that came from elsewhere may not work as expected, try ones from the WPS gallery in the wiki with recent modification dates.
04:07:02kugeldoes changing it the backlight do anything?
04:07:19MarcGuayfeyd2blak: There were changes to the WPS syntax.
04:07:27feyd2blakcool, Ill be back
04:07:40feyd2blakthanks MarcGuay
04:07:50LambdaCalculus37kugel: Nope.
04:07:54kugelbut the fading is generally working? not bad for untested & experimental code I suppose :P
04:08:15LambdaCalculus37kugel: The fading works, but the backlight handling is very poor.
04:08:32*LambdaCalculus37 reverts the patch and builds once more without it
04:08:42MarcGuayfeyd2blak: The font naming scheme also changed, you may need to re-install the font pack as well. Lots of action on the theme front recently.
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04:09:29kugelLambdaCalculus37: so to sum up, it's a) dark, b) independent of of the setting and c) before fading down it goes to max brightness
04:09:57LambdaCalculus37kugel: Correctamundo.
04:10:00MarcGuayLambdaCalculus37: Re: GigS charging. After re-reading, I understand that it does pull a charge via USB but the fact that the disk is always spinning negates it.
04:10:15kugelHm. ok, that needs further investigation
04:10:18LambdaCalculus37MarcGuay: Ahh.
04:11:25kugelLambdaCalculus37: how's fading up? should be unchanged
04:11:48LambdaCalculus37kugel: Fading up doesn't fade up to proper brightness.
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04:12:08kugelwell, to the dark level I suppose
04:12:17LambdaCalculus37kugel: Yes.
04:12:32feyd2blakMarcGuay: Thanks...thats my issue, using only themes with the new rockbox...what can I do about getting the old themes to work
04:12:35saratogasoap: I haven't tested it, but I would expect most of the gain from disabling cabbie/WPS graphics to go away if you're using the MP3 on COP patch
04:12:37kugeland going to the settings and changing doesn't do anything?
04:12:41kugelkinda weird
04:13:16LambdaCalculus37kugel: I tried setting the brightness setting to both max and min... didn't change anything.
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04:13:49kugelI think I need to play a bit with the variables then. The code is generally working
04:14:13MarcGuayfeyd2blak: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17507.0
04:14:45LambdaCalculus37kugel: The best people to ask about this would be whoever did the LCD code for the Gigabeat S, or perhaps jhMikeS or amiconn.
04:14:52*LambdaCalculus37 yawns
04:15:42kugelwell, as far as I see it's not a driver issue
04:16:53kugelor, it's a driver issue :P
04:17:16LambdaCalculus37kugel: Very observant. ;)
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04:18:06kugelcurrent_brightness doesn't get incremented in the way it should be on fading up, since we're using hardware fading
04:18:49kugelwhich is probably also the reason it'll never go for anything else then the default brightness value
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04:19:43LambdaCalculus37kugel: I'm going to start turning in for the night soon. If you'd like, let me know how the backlight fading fixes go, and I'll check the logs tomorrow morning (my time).
04:19:46LambdaCalculus37Good night!
04:20:02kugelgood night
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04:26:37feyd2blakMarcGuay: Thanks again will give it a whirl....
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04:46:49Lloreanwpyh: Generally speaking, what are your goals with reorganizing the menu?
04:46:56LloreanLess depth? Less categories? Different names?
04:47:44wpyhhm... actually more of those
04:47:56wpyhmore categories, and some different names
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04:48:44LloreanMore categories tends to mean a person needs to look in more places to find an option, unless it's *really* obvious from the category name what options are under it.
04:48:45wpyhthe reason is that I find the settings menu too technical.
04:49:01LloreanWhat would be some example new categories, then?
04:50:01wpyhwell, in "Sound Settings", I would add "Advanced Sound Settings" and put "Bass Cutoff", "Treble Cutoff", "Balance", "Channel Configuration", "Stereo Width", "Crossfeed" and "Dithering" in it
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04:50:28wpyhSo "Sound Settings" will consist of "Bass", "Treble", "Volume, "Equalizer" and "Advanced Sound Settings"
04:50:49LloreanAll that does is mean people need to click more things to get to them, though...
04:51:02LloreanHow does having it in another level make Rockbox easier to use?
04:51:05wpyhI have done that, but I would still like to change the menu in other places, so I don't have a patch ready right now
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04:51:59wpyhYes, to get to the advanced sound settings, more clicks have to be made. But it makes Rockbox easier to use by not cluttering up the Sound Settings menu with options that people don
04:52:06wpyh*don't often use
04:52:27Lloreanhow does that make it easier to use?
04:52:30webguest96is there any way to run rockbox on a sansa view
04:52:36LloreanAre their eyes going to wear out from seeing additional options?
04:52:42Lloreanwebguest96: No.
04:53:59wpyhIt is more difficult to find a specific option in the Sound Settings menu if there are too many options there. Of course, one could look at the option names one by one, but in general people don't do that.
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04:54:29wpyhNow I don't condone laziness, but I think a more intuitive and user-friendly approach would be better.
04:54:49LloreanThey have to read them anyway, at least until they get to the one they want.
04:55:03LloreanAssuming they look from the top down, having extras at the bottom wouldn't exactly get in the way.
04:55:32wpyhYes, that would also be another option: put the most common options at the top, and the less common ones at the bottom.
04:55:32LloreanNot to mention it's more difficult to find the option once, while having to go through an extra menu is something you'd have to do every single time you want to change one of those values.
04:56:16wpyhYes, but the settings in "Advanced Sound Settings" are not often changed.
04:57:03wpyhThey are the settings that most people don't use on a regular basis. On the other hand, bass, treble, volume and eq are the things people usually want to change often.
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04:57:25Lloreanwpyh: People don't often change Volume.
04:57:28LloreanOr Bass/Treble.
04:57:46LloreanHeck, even the Equalizer should really only be changed when the output hardware is changed.
04:58:21LloreanAll of that category are infrequently used options.
04:58:40wpyhYeah, I have to admit that volume is actually not changed so often. But bass, treble and eq are very frequently changed, by most users.
04:59:24LloreanWhy would they constantly change them?
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04:59:38LloreanAre you sure you're not thinking "I change them frequently, so most users probably do"?
04:59:42wpyhWell, in theory the eq should be changed when the output hardware is changed, as you said. I myself don't use the eq (I set it to off), but people like to change the eq depending on the music.
05:00
05:00:17webguest49will rockbox work with the ipod nano
05:00:19ameyerwpyh: I'd think people change volume a lot more than eq
05:00:32ameyerwebguest49: which generation?
05:00:35Lloreanameyer: But almost never through the menu.
05:00:40wpyhA lot of users (at least those I see in other forums) like to get a different "experience" each time.
05:00:46ameyerLlorean: true
05:01:31ameyerwebguest49: 1st generation works, 2nd through 4th doesn't and may never work due to Apple being evil and encrypting their firmware
05:01:46webguest49will it work with the ipod classic
05:01:50Lloreanwpyh: So basically, they don't want to hear the same song when they hear the same song?
05:02:09ameyerwebguest49: same situation as the 2nd through 4th gen nanos
05:02:14Lloreanwpyh: Most of the users I've read about in the forums tend to just pick a value and stick with it for bass/treble, and might change EQ based on genre if there's one named for their genre.
05:02:37webguest49apple IS evil, thx
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05:02:48Lloreanwpyh: As it stands though, I don't think you can definitively say those options are frequently used, and even if they are, having the other options merely be visible does not in any way make it more difficult to use them.
05:02:55wpyhLlorean: they want to set the eq to something today, and to something else tomorrow
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05:03:46LloreanI don't think things need to be optimized for uses other than they're intended.
05:03:49wpyhLlorean: so you're saying we are making it difficult for users by adding another level of menu?
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05:04:00LloreanThe expectation is that Sound Settings are intended as a "alter occasionally, most often when you switch outputs"
05:04:37Lloreanwpyh: I'm saying that you make it difficult for users who want to make use of all the options if you add another layer, while leaving them on the same layer doesn't actually increase difficulty.
05:04:59LloreanHiding it just makes it less likely people will even know the options exist.
05:05:08LloreanSome people won't consider "Balance" an advanced option, since it's offered by many devices.
05:05:17LloreanSo they'll assume it's missing before even checking. etc, etc.
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05:07:40wpyhHm... I think it's more of a tie here, and depending on where you look. For the more advanced users, I think having all those options available is good; for the regular user (like the regular PC user), they would only want to see Bass, Treble, Volume, and EQ.
05:07:54ameyerstupid question, if I got an iPod mini with a broken HD and did the CF mod on it, would I have any need for the OF?
05:08:22ameyeror is disk mode actually implemented in hardware?
05:08:32Lloreanameyer: It's implemented in software stored in ROM.
05:08:41Lloreanwpyh: Rockbox is aimed at advanced users....
05:09:01Lloreanwpyh: You're pretty much advanced by default if you're flashing alternative firmwares on your consumer electronics.
05:09:16wpyhI don't consider it hiding, because the "Advanced Sound Settings" menu is right there. You do have a point in saying that leaving them on the same layer doesn't increase difficulty though, so we can also have them in the same layer but rearrange them.
05:09:24wpyhhm...
05:09:49wpyhI'm trying to make more people use Rockbox (WORLD DOMINATION)
05:10:11LloreanSo you think people will see extra settings, say "oh no, it offers me more options than I expected" and not use it at all?
05:10:24wpyhI do understand that it would attract 1users though...
05:10:35LloreanHow would hiding settings attract users, exactly?
05:10:42LloreanThey won't know the settings are hidden until they've already installed it.
05:10:57LloreanDo you honestly believe people will then see extra settings and choose to stop using Rockbox because of them?
05:11:09wpyhno, that's not that I'm thinking. I'm thinking that the users would say "wow, it's too complicated. and ugly. I'll switch back to the OF".
05:11:32wpyhYes, I think they would think the settings are too complicated, and stop using Rockbox because of it.
05:11:55LloreanIf someone thinks it's complicated to *not use* options they don't know what do, they'll probably not get along well with Rockbox anyway.
05:12:33wpyhOn the other hand, if we put the less often used settings in "Advanced Sound Settings", the average user would say "nah, that's too complicated for me. I'll just use the ones in the Sound Settings instead."
05:12:50LloreanInstead of "nah, those are too complicated for me, I'll just use the ones I know the name of"?
05:12:57LloreanHaving them visible doesn't force anyone to try to use them.
05:13:03wpyhLlorean: you're probably alienating some people...
05:13:46LloreanYou honestly believe we've turned people away because they were too stupid to say "Oh, there are options here I don't know about, I'll just ignore them."
05:13:56LloreanAnd instead got confused by them, and quit using the software?
05:14:32wpyhLlorean: no and yes. Yes: having them visible does not force anyone to try use them, but might scare them away. No: they would most likely see it as being non-user-friendly nad turn away from Rockbox altogether.
05:14:43wpyhYes...
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05:15:15LloreanSee, I can't rightfully make myself believe there are people who can't see a list of options, and then choose to only use the ones they want to use.
05:15:29LloreanMore options isn't less user friendly as long as they can still easily find the options they DO want.
05:15:43LloreanIt would be less user friendly if the "normal" options were hard to get to because of the advanced ones, sure.
05:15:47wpyhMy goal is to retain all the advanced settings, because that's one of the things that makes Rockbox superior to the OF. But I would do it in a way that makes people feel right at home, in a way that's comfortable to them.
05:15:49LloreanBut they're right there.
05:16:34Lloreanwpyh: Your goal is to make Rockbox harder to use for intelligent people, while trying to attract people who'd apparently be happy enough with the original firmware anyway.
05:17:01LloreanIf having extra options drives them away, I can't imagine they actually _wanted_ to use Rockbox in the first place.
05:17:30wpyhYes, you're right about more options is not less user friendly, but they are mixed with the frequently-used options, so users who want to use the more frequently-used options would have to find the right option. They would have to scroll more, and it's not intuitive.
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05:17:54Llorean"Here's a list of options, let me scroll through to read it" isn't intuitive?
05:18:08LloreanTell me, when you have a list of options, what does YOUR intuition tell you to do instead of looking at it?
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05:18:46wpyhhm... my goal is not to make Rockbox harder to use for intelligent people. Yes, I would like to attact people who would be happy enough with the OF. I would like to be inclusive instead of exclusive.
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05:19:08LloreanYou didn't answer my question about intuition.
05:19:27LloreanIf you're going to call Rockbox "not intuitive" I really expect you to be able to explain what your intuition would have you do instead of what we have you do.
05:20:08wpyhWell, my intuition would be to scroll through it and see if anything interests me, or if anything might be useful to me. I do understand that more advanced users would want to think about (and actually use) each option. OTOH, less advanced users would think it's all too complicated to use.
05:20:14wpyhhey, I have slow fingers :p
05:20:47LloreanSo, your intuition is to scroll through the list.
05:20:50wpyhyep
05:20:51LloreanWe expect you to scroll through the list.
05:20:54LloreanHow is that not intuitive?
05:21:15wpyhIt's not un-intuitive for me. But it would be, for the average user.
05:21:39LloreanThe average user would do what instead of scrolling, then?
05:22:10wpyhthe average user would think it's all too complicated to use. then they would like Rockbox less.
05:22:22LloreanSo their intuition, when given 8 options, is to give up?
05:22:26LloreanNot "read them"?
05:22:40LloreanI think if "read a few lines" is too difficult for them, they won't get past the install steps.
05:23:48wpyhI think it's like Linux. (forgive me for making an analogy) I used Slackware, and now I'm using my homegrown distro with an even more primitive package manager. I would never use Ubuntu. But I see that lots of Linux users (I wouldn't say most) use Ubuntu, Fedora, etc because they are more user-friendly and desktop-friendly.
05:24:21LloreanWhat does that have to do with "asking users to read 8 options"?
05:24:34wpyhLlorean: yes. and actually the install steps are too difficult to follow... but that's another topic. and I have never used rbutil, so I don't know how difficult it is to use.
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05:25:15Lloreanwpyh: What kind of person would install an alternative firmware, then be overwhelmed by having 8 options instead of 4?
05:25:27LloreanI mean I'm thinking the person has to be nearly illiterate it 8 options is too much a strain to read...
05:25:35wpyhabout the analogy? see, slackware gives you all the options you want, and you can and should use a text editor to edit those. No GUI configuration tools. Ubuntu hides them behind a GUI.
05:26:02*wpyh is actually seeing 12 options, but that's just a numbers issue
05:26:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:26:36LloreanBass Cutoff and Treble Cutoff, at least, aren't on most targets.
05:26:39wpyhBasically, by adding another level, we can separate the rough controls and the fine controls + advanced controls
05:26:40LloreanSo, 10ish
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05:26:52LloreanYes, making it harder for a normal user to use.
05:26:53wpyhyeah
05:26:59wpyhuh?
05:27:01LloreanSeparating the levels just adds complication
05:27:20wpyhyes, I do understand your argument about the extra level
05:27:57wpyhso I'm open to ideas... an alternative is to display the 4 basic sound settings, then display a separator line, then display the advanced settings. How about that?
05:28:03LloreanSo your goal is to make the project less advanced-user / developer friendly and more "clueless user" friendly?
05:28:24LloreanA separator line doesn't do anything functional either. Why do they need to be distinguished at all?
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05:29:22wpyhPartially true. My goal is to make it more "clueless user" friendly, but not less "advanced user" friendly. The advanced user would be intelligent enough to open the submenu ;)
05:29:38LloreanYes, but it takes him more time.
05:29:48wpyhA separator line would tell people that "The settings below this are advanced settings"
05:30:00LloreanNo, it would tell a user "the settings below this are settings below this"
05:30:14LloreanIf your users are too dumb to be able to read a full list of settings names, I doubt they'll instantly realize that's the "Advanced Settings" line.
05:30:18wpyhLlorean: depends on how you look at it.
05:30:36LloreanYou seem to assume your users cannot read, but can fathom the intention of an apparently random line.
05:30:40wpyhLlorean: yes, so I'm still open to ideas, as I said.
05:30:46LloreanMeanwhile, all that line will do is make the screen _more_ full
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05:30:53LloreanWhich, by your logic, should make it more overwhelming, not less.
05:31:13LloreanHere's an idea "don't add submenus, they're unnecessary and make the entire firmware harder to use"
05:31:32LloreanPeople can, at most, be overwhelmed the first time they enter the screen.
05:31:34wpyhLlorean: the line there would signal some kind of separator. and the user seeing the weird setting names under it would immediately realize they are in the wrong zone
05:31:41LloreanSubmenus demand a cost every single time someone wishes to access those options.
05:32:04Lloreanwpyh: If the user is intelligent enough to do that, they're intelligent enough to just not click on options they don't want to click on...
05:33:07wpyhYes, it demands a cost. Since they are not that frequently used, they would entail a smaller cost than to have the average user read the whole list.
05:33:29LloreanI don't understand your statement there.
05:33:32wpyhLlorean: not all users are as smart as you think. Maybe what we perceive as "users" are different?
05:33:35LloreanThe average user needs to read the list _once_
05:33:50LloreanThen they know which options are there, and which ones they want to use.
05:34:01LloreanMeanwhile, the advanced user needs to go into that menu many times over the life of their player.
05:34:33LloreanSo, how is the cost higher to the average user. If the list overwhelms them every single time they read it, I'd be impressed.
05:34:58Lloreanwpyh: My basis for an "average" user is my mother. She has difficulty using computers, period, but is not afraid of an options menu.
05:35:06wpyhYes: the average user would know which options are there. But that's beside the point. The long list would make it harder to scroll to the option they want.
05:35:19LloreanNot if it were sorted.
05:35:28wpyhSorted according to what?
05:35:59LloreanAdvanced options in the middle-ish, more common ones at the top and bottom (least clicks from starting point)
05:36:08wpyh:O
05:36:29wpyh(that's an emoticon of an astonished person, sorry)
05:36:45LloreanThis benefits advanced users too, since overall they're most likely to use the same options and these technology-terrified users you seem to be targeting.
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05:38:02wpyhMore common ones at the top and the advanced ones at the bottom would be more intuitive. Having common options at both ends is counter-intuitive, even though it is technically nearer to the top if you count the clicks
05:38:32LloreanYou have to assume your clueless users will learn to use Rockbox after a short time
05:38:48LloreanRockbox should be aimed at being easier to use once you learn how, even if that takes a small cost in making it harder to learn.
05:38:59LloreanSince, ideally, people will be using it for a very long time.
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05:40:11wpyhI think I can't assume that. I don't want to make people learn something like this. Instead, I want people to use Rockbox and find that it feels "easy to use, intuitive and feels just like my OF, but it has more advanced options should I ever need them. that's what makes it cool."
05:40:14LloreanLowering the barrier of entry at the cost of total usability is a bad design choice, especially considering "get more users" is not a significant project goal. The intended audience is "people who can contribute" since that's what makes the project grow, and "people who can contribute" tend to be advanced users anyway.
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05:40:26wpyhhm... ok
05:40:32wpyhI can see that our premises are different
05:41:21LloreanYes, but mine's the one that's actually set for the project.
05:42:05wpyhYes, which is why I can't just make someone apply my patches...
05:42:47LloreanMaybe you should consider writing the patch in a way that accomplishes your goals _without_ sacrificing the goals of the project?
05:42:52wpyhI can only persuade people. If that fails, then I would have to accept that :)
05:43:28LloreanInstead of fighting against the project direction, why not try to work with it?
05:43:33wpyhYes, that would be a good thing. I don't have any other ideas right now though...
05:44:06wpyhLlorean: I'm actually trying to work with it. However, all my ideas seem to be against the project direction you described.
05:46:39wpyhI didn't do it on purpose :P
05:46:58LloreanJust remember, the target audience is "more developers to help further improve things" not "masses of every day users"
05:47:07LloreanWe'd like them, but not at the cost of what we consider usability.
05:47:30wpyhThat's a very delicate balance.
05:47:50LloreanThere's not much to balance.
05:47:57wpyhand I would actually have to learn what you consider usability.
05:48:00LloreanIf we have to make a choice, we pick the one we think works best for us.
05:48:41wpyhthe balance is "we'd like average users, but not at the cost of what we consder usability"
05:48:46wpyhOK
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05:54:49wpyhI think I would have to learn from the Linux menuconfig... they changed the organization significantly from 2.4 to 2.6, and I find 2.6's menuconfig a lot more easier to use.
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06:00
06:01:03wpyhseems some rb-related chat leaked into -community
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06:01:17wpyhthe problem with rb's usb is that it's unstable on my ipod video (and nano)
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06:01:40scorchedefine "unstable
06:01:58wpyhfor some unknown reason, sometimes it would happen that plugging in the usb cable would only charge. this is not easily reproducible.
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06:02:51wpyhsome other problems: 1) file transfer is slower than with the OF, 2) charging time is longer, 3) I don't remember exactly when, but I think I encountered a file transfer error once
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06:04:02LloreanNone of those, except maybe #3, are stability issues.
06:04:15LloreanAnd I'm pretty sure you can get the OF to only charge if you plug in the cable too slowly too.
06:04:56wpyhhm... I'll try thta
06:04:57wpyh*that
06:06:13wpyhLlorean: I'm saying that:
06:06:13wpyh1. plugging in the usb cable is a stability issue
06:06:13wpyh2. slow file transfer is a problem, but I didn't say it's a stability issue
06:06:13DBUGSent KICK wpyh to server
06:06:13wpyh3. long charging time is a problem but it's not a stability issue either
06:06:13wpyh4. a file transfer error is a problem
06:06:14Kick(#rockbox wpyh :No flooding!) by logbot!n=bjst@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-507a9318582de8ba
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06:11:00Bawitdabathe rockbox wiki doesnt specifically say what the default or ideal albumart size is it hints at 100x100 tho or is that too big?
06:11:13lol3izerideal is 100x100
06:11:23lol3izerSOME wpses can handle 200x200
06:11:35Bawitdabawhat if its like 128x128
06:11:41lol3izerno it will be clipped
06:11:49Bawitdabahrm ok
06:11:50lol3izerjust use the methods it suggests to generate them
06:11:52lol3izerits very easy
06:12:06Lloreanlol3izer: Ask what player he has first.
06:12:12ameyerthere is a patch to allow scaled album art
06:12:23Bawitdabalol its an ipod video 80g
06:12:25ameyerdoesn't seem to like to apply cleanly, though
06:12:33lol3izerLlorean, sorry, i was assuming a larger screen model
06:12:44ameyeror I'm horrible at patching
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06:13:35Bawitdabawell i dont have coverart for everything i was going to use a 3rd party app like cover art downloader but i want to make sure its sized right
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06:16:27LloreanBawitdaba: The right album art size to use depends entirely on the WPS you choose, each one has a different expected maximum size.
06:16:50Bawitdabahrm ok
06:16:54lol3izermost wps's on the ipod 5.5 expect 100x100
06:16:59lol3izersome are at 200x200
06:17:04lol3izerother sizes are rare
06:17:18Bawitdabayeah and even if i could prolly change the wps to 100x100
06:17:19lol3izerjust pick one you like and work from that
06:17:21Lloreanlol3izer: Still, he should simply check what the WPS expects rather than trying randomly
06:17:34lol3izerLlorean, lol ;)
06:17:50lol3izerwe both said the same thing at the same time :P
06:19:09Bawitdaba%Cl|0|0|s100|s100|
06:19:12Bawitdaba:P
06:19:38Llorean100 by 100, as you can see, then.
06:19:56Bawitdabayeah the manual is nice
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06:38:56Skailwhat are my chances of being able to build with gcc3.4.5 ?
06:39:45LloreanSkail: You're not mentioning what target you're building for.
06:39:57LloreanAnd why don't you just use the right version?
06:40:26SkailLlorean: for arm-elf (sansa c200).. and because I can't seem to get a working gcc4 cross compiler
06:40:34scorcheSkail: the rockboxdev.sh script makes getting the cross compilers installed very easy
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06:41:23Skailscorche: I'd prefer to stick with the gentoo tools.. sometimes "3rd party" things don't play nice with portage
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06:41:42Skailbut then, they aren't currently building me a crosscompiler, so....
06:41:51scorcheSkail: better than nothing?
06:42:16LloreanSkail: If your linux distro won't allow you to build your own copies of things from source, you might consider picking one that offers you a little more flexibility and freedom...
06:43:06lol3izeryou can do custom ebuilds pretty easily
06:43:12SkailLlorean: uhh...... it most certainly WILL allow me to, but I prefer to do things like that within portage, because it tracks things for me... easy uninstall and easy to know what is and isn't on my system
06:44:04lol3izerSkail, you might want to consider LD_PRELOD_PATH and the fact that all unix software is naturally portable
06:44:06LloreanSkail: Well, Rockbox more or less requires specific GCC versions to work reliably.
06:44:14lol3izerin the sense it dosent matter where it is running from
06:44:39scorcheSkail: and if portage wont do the job, but a "third party tool" which is an open perl script does?
06:44:41lol3izeryou could even do a chroot if you dont wanna muck around alot
06:44:57scorches/perl//
06:45:29Skaillol3izer: yeah, chroot might be the way to go.. I dunno what LD_PRELOAD_PATH is, though
06:46:36lol3izerSkail, it allows you to speficy an alternate place to load libaries from
06:47:02Skaillol3izer: I don't really grok gcc well enough to use that effectively.
06:47:03lol3izerso if the gcc 4 version requires conflicting libraries
06:47:04lol3izeror something
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06:50:36Skailmeh, I guess I'll bite the bullet and use the rockboxdev script.... not like its going to clobber anything existing..
06:50:54Dhraakellianjust saw the news on fsdaily. congrats on the release!
06:51:06scorcheSkail: in fact, it doesnt even add anything to your path ;)
06:51:58Dhraakellian...a week late seeing the news
06:52:05SkailI wonder if it might confuse the gcc-config tool
06:52:45Bawitdabatheres a lot of album art programs on the rb wiki, but is there any that you guys know of that will download and resize art to a cover.bmp recursively for each folder/album
06:52:49SkailI don't even want to build rockbox itself - just need to write a plugin :)
06:53:21scorcheSkail: all it does is build the crosscompilers for you...what you do with them after (typically people just add to their PATH) is up to you
07:00
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07:02:33Skailoh, for the love of...........
07:03:14Skailjoy.... turns out the past 3 hours I've spent fighting with the crosscompiler were wasted..
07:03:33SkailI already had it set up
07:03:52Skailjust forgot where it was... probably because it was non-portage
07:04:05Bawitdabagentoo ftw
07:04:12Skaild'oh
07:04:23scorcheBawitdaba: and why is that necessary?
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07:21:49blueorblackI'm having a bit of an issue with my ipod, wmp isn't seeing it as a sync device
07:21:58 Part Dhraakellian ("Meddle not in the affairs of ircops, for they are (not so) subtle, and quick to anger.")
07:22:31blueorblacki've enabled disk use and all and i can see it in explorer but not in wmp
07:22:54Lloreanblueorblack: That's a question to ask those who provide support for WMP
07:23:04scorcheblueorblack: that sint really a rockbox issue
07:23:05LloreanYour iPod is still an iPod, and WMP probably chooses not to sync with them.
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07:26:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:32:41SoulSeekerhi anyone with sansa e200 series mp3 player?
07:33:15SoulSeekerI just did a headphone repair.. I broke off a resistor on the lower left, put a glob of solder, and now stereo works again..
07:33:36devslashnullis there anything i can do to improve rockbox's speed when going thru the menu system. i get lags pretty often
07:33:52scorchedevslashnull: i take it that you have an ipod video?
07:34:04devslashnullyea
07:34:04scorcheSoulSeeker: did you have a question?
07:34:10devslashnullis that a known issue ?
07:34:21SoulSeekeryes. it seems sansa e200 has very unreliable headphone jack..
07:34:28SoulSeekerthe soldering point seems to come off..
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07:34:40SoulSeekerthere are a lot on ebay with broken headjack..
07:34:41devslashnullscorche ?
07:34:57scorcheSoulSeeker: yup...many DAPs have this issue, though sansas seem especially fragile
07:35:10SoulSeekerI am glad I somehow fixed the one I bought on ebay for $15... but I was wondering what was that small resistor that I broke off accidentally
07:35:50scorchedevslashnull: well, the ipod videos are not very fast due to its screen (lots of overhead)...do you notice a large improvement when playing music?
07:36:03SoulSeekerit was nearly accidental i fixed thsi thing... but any idea what was that resistor connected to the headphone jack pin?
07:36:10devslashnullscorcheno not really
07:36:33devslashnullscorche in fact theres a lag when pausig a song or exiting the "now playing" screen
07:37:32SoulSeekeranyone? I was surprised to see that mp3 player still working without a resistor... :-?
07:42:57SoulSeekeranyways, I also own another sansa e260.. very cheap, good sound, compatible with rockbox..
07:43:42SoulSeekerbut the screen is very fragile, the battery doesn't last long, and the proporiety cable is very hard to replace (the ones sold in Ebay stop working after few months)...
07:44:08SoulSeekeri guess I will be getting iriver next time. :(
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08:19:47happosadeHello
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08:35:18GodEaterlord this 3.0 release has brought some clots :)
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09:16:12homieloweanother rockbox article from lifehacker http://lifehacker.com/5056370/breathe-new-life-into-your-aging-mp3-player-with-rockbox
09:17:00GodEaterseen it
09:17:58*Llorean is glad the default made it into his list of favorite themes.
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09:18:56SoulSeekerI am using Rockbox 3.0 on my sansa.. good job.
09:19:21SoulSeekerthe windows installer was easy to use (though the skin downloading doesn't work yet)
09:19:43scorcheSoulSeeker: it isnt meant to
09:19:55SoulSeekeric.
09:20:09SoulSeekeranyways, no one had broken headjack problem with sansa?
09:20:19scorchelots of people have...
09:20:44SoulSeekerhow do people usually fix it?
09:21:00scorcheit depends on what is broken, but i thought you already fixed it
09:21:05SoulSeekeralso, any idea what was the resistor connected to the headphone jack pin?
09:21:16SoulSeekerjust curious.
09:21:26SoulSeekeri ordered another broken E200 from ebay. :)
09:22:11scorcheit could be a few things
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09:24:21SoulSeekerthus far, no apparent negative effect. i wonder if the resistor is to prevent battery train through head phones..
09:24:33amiconnpetur: YOur commit still won't work, if I don't overlook something
09:24:46amiconnIiuc the #ifdefs introduced in pcm-pp.c also need fixing
09:24:50*petur sighs
09:25:13scorcheSoulSeeker: no apparent difference in volume?...resistors are cheap anyway
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09:25:44SoulSeekerscorche, it's extremely tiny. 1.5mm.. my soldering skill isn't good enough :( oh well.
09:25:52peturamiconn: well spotted :/
09:26:14scorchei wouldnt call that extremely tiny, but /shrug
09:26:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:26:52homieloweSoulseeker: might be one of these http://hackaday.com/2008/09/29/parts-01uf-decoupling-capacitors/
09:27:18scorchehomielowe: why did you link that?
09:28:13SoulSeekerhomielowe, that looks like it.. the tiny ones..
09:28:20scorchehomielowe: you do know that is talking about power supply regulation, right?
09:28:35scorcheSoulSeeker: it looks like any other SMD resistors
09:28:43scorchehomielowe: that is even a capacitor...not a resistor..
09:29:16SoulSeekerheh.. not much skills here. :(
09:29:41*homielowe goes to the corner
09:30:31amiconnsoap: What's up with your build server?
09:32:17scorcheruining our nice greenness =/
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09:34:04B4gderI guess I should disable sims on his host until resolved
09:35:23peturwow... we have 20 buildservers already...
09:35:26B4gderthe new host by Nimdae seems to run fine
09:36:16B4gderyeah, 20 working hosts
09:36:24B4gderI think there are a few currently unavailable too
09:37:18GodEaterxen is fast =/
09:39:19B4gderI think I'll try disabling lostlogix's host
09:39:37B4gderat least for sims
09:40:17GodEateroh god, tell me interix comes with a bash shell somewhere
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09:43:09klosare there screenshots availabe for the new version 3.0
09:43:10klos?
09:43:26GodEaterklos: all the way through the WpsGallery
09:43:26n1samiconn: I got gcc4.3.0 to build a working rockbox for h300, it required a couple of tweaks to the rockbox code and some linker scripts though, and had a few issues. 1) it didn't like the inline asm in libmad when using O2, worked with O1 though, In tremor a wrong assembler bug was triggered (which i reported but it hasn't been fixed yet, it is probably present but latent in earlier versions too)
09:43:33B4gderklos: the manual?
09:43:49kloshavent checked it :)
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09:45:27klosah ok thx, do you guys think it will be possible someday to use .cue files along with mp3 for live sets or mixes ?
09:45:43scorcheklos: rockbox supports cue files
09:45:51klosah really
09:45:57kloshaha i havent checked rockbox for ages
09:46:00klossweet :)
09:46:07klosthx
09:46:08n1spreliminary tests with gcc4.3 showed about no performance change in mad, a sizable regression in Tremor and a major speedup i aac (this was before the mdct unification so might not apply anymore)
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09:51:11n1s(if anyone is interested the wrong asm bug is #35018 in gcc bugzilla)
09:52:30tucozBagder: hi. shouldn't there be a link to the 3.0 manual from the manual page linked from the side menu?
09:53:28B4gderprobably, yes
09:54:11B4gderthe site is in svn you know ;-)
09:54:21*B4gder fixes
09:54:33tucozaha. how cool. didn't know that
09:55:53B4gderit just doesn't update automatically
09:56:25tucozB4gder: I have to congratulate you for being persistent in getting this release out. feels great now, and with very positive response overall.
09:56:51B4gderyeah, I think that despite the problems it has it was a good thing to get out
09:57:00tucozyep. for sure
09:58:02tucozi guess it makes further releases less intimidating...
09:58:35tucozback to work. see you
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09:58:53B4gderI think we should make a checklist for the next release
09:59:13B4gderof things to have fixed and done before we announce it
09:59:30GodEatergreat idea
09:59:38*GodEater volunteers B4gder to make such a list
09:59:43B4gderyay!
09:59:48*B4gder feels selected
10:00
10:00:45B4gderit would be nice to have the themes site up for 3.1
10:01:44pixelmanow, all we need is that *someone* to do the work ;)
10:02:07*B4gder looks around for someone
10:02:26GodEaterI thought I saw him hiding around the corner a while back
10:04:14n1ssoo, on a slightly related matter what would be the correct version to use for the new ipod bootloaders, and what is the clean way to set APPSVERSION? (ipods seem by far the most cf modded targets so I think we/I should focus on getting these up on the download site soon, very little interest in the bootloaders though :(
10:05:19*scorche peeks out from around his corner
10:05:26linuxstbn1s: co-incidentally, I think it's "v3" according to http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/tags/
10:05:49n1slinuxstb: aha!, nice :)
10:07:01linuxstbI _think_ you just do "VERSION=v3 make"
10:07:36linuxstbOr maybe "make VERSION=v3"... (or maybe they are equivalent...)
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10:12:38RyoSLlorean gevaerts: original firmware doesnt hold up to 10h :/
10:12:48RyoSmorning first :)
10:13:31B4gderlinuxstb: I think they are equivalent
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10:16:27n1sB4gder, linuxstb: interestingly 'make VERSION=v3' seems to have worked, the r18xxx-3.0-08xxxx string was replaced by v3 but 'VERSION=v3 make' didn't, anyways, I'm building a batch now :)
10:17:16B4gdercool, do you have a script to build the entire set?
10:17:23n1sno...
10:17:29linuxstbn1s: I _think_ this is the script I used to build the last set of ipod bootloaders - note that I used "VERSION=2.0". http://www.pastebin.ca/1214531
10:18:16n1slinuxstb: thanks, will go with 3.0 then, even nicer match :)
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10:19:06LloreanRyoS: So you've either got a bad battery, or a bad player.
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10:20:32RyoSLlorean: soudns like the players fault..
10:20:50RyoSi wonder if cowon could have a look at it "now"..
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10:28:21n1slinuxstb: worked very nicely :)
10:29:21n1sshould they be retested (after amiconn's changes on the branch) or are we confident they will work? :)
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10:29:35linuxstbI would say they definitely need testing...
10:29:40linuxstbIt's easy to break bootloaders
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10:32:16n1sok, uploaded new ipod bootloaders in FS #9369
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12:03:11orly_owlWhat's the biggest memory card the Ondio can take?
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12:34:56RyoSdoes it make any sense to compile gcc 4.x for m68k targets?
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12:41:23vitjagevaerts: hi. can you take a look at patch, that tries to solve ep problem vitja/xx.diff?">ftp://localhost/vitja/xx.diff?
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12:43:30funmando you mean vitja/xx.diff">ftp://79.120.98.174/vitja/xx.diff ? :)
12:44:05vitjayeah, sorry
12:44:49funman$ echo 79.120.98.174 localhost >> /etc/hosts
12:45:44vitjahmm I just tested link with lftp and copy-pasted path
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12:59:31gevaertsvitja: I've got the file. I'll have a look later today (promise!)
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13:01:30funmanwhere are the interrupts handled in rockbox code ?
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13:20:29vitja_gevaerts: are you here?
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13:26:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:41:33gevaertsvitja_: yes
13:41:44vitja_gevaerts: have you seen patch?
13:42:07gevaertsvitja: I've got the file. I'll have a look later today
13:42:57funmanvitja_: beware, the promise he made when you were offline is now gone !
13:43:08vitja_ok
13:43:37gevaertsfunman: bertrik told me to tell you about sg3-utils
13:44:03funmanthanks, I'm looking what it is about
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13:44:26funmantools for working with generic scsi devices
13:45:33gevaertsyes. You may be able to use them to send data to a scsi/usb block device even if it reports wrong numbers of blocks
13:45:50funmanoh, that's for my bricked clip then
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14:06:19kugelfunman: bricked clip????
14:06:27kugelthought you have a new one
14:06:33kugelor do you have both?
14:06:58funmanI only replaced the 2nd one i bricked
14:07:11kugelah ok
14:07:11funmanthe first one is opened, battery removed, and I just copied a firmware to it with sg_dd
14:07:21funmannow let's plug back the lcd and pray !
14:08:36funmanyou didn't pray hard enough :/
14:08:49kugelsorry :(
14:13:24kugelanyone with a gigabeat s online?
14:15:11funmanJ-23: what do you mean with 'direct access' ?
14:19:25J-23s/*/access the on-board ROM via USB/
14:19:31funmanno
14:19:49funmanwe can only write to it when doing a firmware upgrade
14:20:33J-23how does recovery mode work on v2's?
14:21:19funmanon e200 you can access (read/write) the whole firmware file by usb if you disable manually the NAND (shorting 2 pins together)
14:21:56funmanon other models, we implement recovery in the very first stages of the software we execute (resume OF is a button is pressed or usb connection is detected)
14:23:10funmanI'm now trying some scsi generic tools as suggested by bertrik but with limited hope
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14:23:40funmaninterestingly, I hadn't noticed that my clip is detected as 2 usb mass storage devices (0 blocks each)
14:26:54kugelfunman: afair my previous fuze was deteced as 2 devices, 1 of which was 0 block
14:27:11kugelwhen I shorted the nand that is
14:27:14funmanthe 2nd device's block size is not listed in dmesg
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14:30:40kugelfunman: do you know how far atomic came with his sd investiigation?
14:30:49funmanwhich one?
14:30:53kugelsd interface
14:30:59kugelto access the nand
14:31:00funmandisassembly
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14:35:05funmankugel: do you run windows ?
14:36:34kugelfunman: How do you mean?
14:36:39kugelI run it on my pc
14:37:13funmanthat's what I asked - could you try shorting the nand pins and running the official sansa firmware updater ?
14:37:33funmanI don't remember if I used it on my clip when it was bricked - and now I deleted the virtual machine I used
14:37:33kugeluh
14:37:53linuxstbamiconn: Do you know how Interix compares in speed to Linux in a vm?
14:38:21kugelthe fuze has a very sensible connection between the wheel and the board. It's likely I break it again when I open my fuze
14:38:35funmankugel: ah right I remember you broke it - then forget about it :)
14:38:49kugelI have a new one
14:38:55kugelfully working
14:40:22kugelstill, I don't really want to open it again. And I'm really doubtful that the updater can see it (and do something useful with it?)
14:40:29kugels/?//
14:41:27funmanI'll ask atomicpunk
14:41:38funmanI also doubt that it does anything
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14:48:12funmanmost of the scsi commands I try fail, but I can make the device hang, so it has some effect at least ;)
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14:52:29RyoSLlorean: ping
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15:07:46XavierGrlinuxstb: the problem with vm in a multicore system is that it doesn't use all the available cores, so if interix is 2x-5x faster than cygwin it should be faster than linux in a vm
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15:10:43funmankugel: only the first device seems to be really a mass storage (sg_readcap fails on the 2nd)
15:11:22funmanwell the 2nd device reports that it's not ready
15:11:45amiconnXavierGr: I'm on single core though (and VMware can use 2 cores in one VM if you tell it to)
15:13:03XavierGramiconn: that was my problem, I have a 4 core cpu and I couldn't make vmware to use them all
15:13:26XavierGramiconn: so can someone use interix to compile rockbox now?
15:13:36funmanwhat about separate networked VMs and distcc ?
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15:15:05XavierGramiconn: also did you get interix downloading the entire SFU that microsoft provides or did you find it separately
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15:25:11funmannothing meaningful with sg_utils
15:25:38kugelLambdaCalculus37: hey! :)
15:26:06LambdaCalculus37kugel: Good morning (or afternoon)! :)
15:26:37kugelafternoon, rather
15:26:45LambdaCalculus37What's the good word on your Gigabeast backlight fading?
15:26:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:28:21gevaertsfunman: does sg_dd check the device capacity before writing? If so, you could try changing it to really only do the writes
15:28:35funmanit doesn't
15:28:47*funman hopes
15:29:29kugelLambdaCalculus37: well, I've done a bit. It could work now
15:29:37funmana linux bug(?) makes it report device's blocks number as 1 minimum even if the device said 0, and the 1st block isn't even copied
15:30:02LambdaCalculus37kugel: Want to post it to Flyspray? It'll get more exposure that way.
15:30:19LambdaCalculus37Plus, I can't do anything from work. :(
15:30:40kugeloh
15:31:05kugelwhat can you do if I build for you?
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15:32:48LambdaCalculus37kugel: Won't be able to do much right now.
15:33:07LambdaCalculus37kugel: Post the patch on FS, and I'll go and get it when I can get a little free time.
15:34:01kugelso, you can't extract a zip on your player and take 2 min to see if backlight is working? sad
15:34:08gevaertsfunman: are you using /dev/sdX or /dev/sgX? I think sg_dd still goes through the kernel for /dev/sdX
15:34:33funmansg
15:35:04funmanand I explicit the device file
15:35:11LambdaCalculus37kugel: Tell you what.. make the build and email me the zip.
15:35:31funmansome (very little) information is correctly reported, load/start commands are successful, the device is ready
15:35:40kugelLambdaCalculus37: how about uploading to my webspace?
15:35:45funmanbut I can't read/copy anything
15:36:00funmanI think sandisk somehow disabled that feature
15:36:01LambdaCalculus37kugel: Okay.
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15:38:49funmanhum the sansaV2 OF enables the "timer2 clock"
15:39:01kugelLambdaCalculus37: http://www.alice-dsl.net/simonemartitz/forlambda/rockbox.zip
15:39:13funmanand now that I read the code handling interrupts, it seems that we have to handle interrupts for said 'timer2'
15:39:45kugelin order to?
15:40:01funmanso maybe the interrupts are handled by the OF, and since it's in an uninitialized state, the interrupt handler may return without actually handling it
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15:40:07funmankugel: no idea
15:40:57amiconnXavierGr: The full thing, plus a few hotfixes, plus another big package from suacommunity.com
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15:41:22amiconnAnd no, it is not yet possible to use Interix for building rockbox, but I'm working on it
15:43:03funmankugel: firmware/target/arm/system-pp502x.c line 47/48
15:43:21peturXavierGr: why not use VirtualBox? I think it uses all CPUs...
15:44:13funman TIMER2_VAL; /* ACK interrupt */
15:44:26funmandoes it mean to acknowledge the interrupt, one just has to read said register ?
15:45:56LambdaCalculus37kugel: Still independent of the brightness setting. I can't do much else right now because my beast needs a charging... again.
15:45:58kugelpetur: it didn't when I used it (v1.6)
15:46:08peturoh?
15:46:27peturwell the manual says nothing about it...
15:46:29kugelLambdaCalculus37: does it still go to max brightness on fading down?
15:46:54XavierGrpetur: unfortunately cygwin in the end is less hassle than any virtual machine
15:47:02kugelpetur: the vm didn't even see the second core, so...
15:47:05LambdaCalculus37kugel: I didn't notice because my beast shut off while I was testing.
15:47:15kugel:(
15:47:20*petur gets the latest version and tries
15:48:14XavierGrand if a virtual machine doesn't use all the cores I could just use cygwin and loose a little speed
15:48:35amiconnfunman: This is correct for PP. Other SoCs probably most behave differently, mabye very differently
15:48:54XavierGrI remember cygwin at 4 cores vs vmware at 2 cores was significant due to ccache but in the end I opted for cygwin once again
15:49:10amiconnXavierGr: A little? Building the crosscompilers on Interix was 2times...7times (!) faster than on cygwin...
15:49:17XavierGr(and I am not compiling all the time so waiting 30 seconds more is not the end of the world)
15:49:29XavierGramiconnn: I am talking about cygwin vs vmware
15:49:53XavierGrI haven't tryid interix yet, it sounds promising and I wait impatiently for your work :P
15:50:01funmanamiconn: yes, for as3525 it seems we have to write in a specific register
15:50:09amiconnYes, and I think Interix and VMware+linux will be about the same speed on the same hardware
15:50:53funmanfrom a hardware point of view, I understand that I would just have to clear the interrupt.
15:51:21funmanhm I'll read the datasheet in details before making assumptions :)
15:52:50LambdaCalculus37kugel: The other reason why I wanted you to post the patch on Flyspray is so I can take a look at it as well.
15:53:24 Part J-23
15:53:26kugelI really didn't change much
15:53:52*kugel doesn't want to upload a known-to-not-work patch :S
15:53:58peturkugel: VirtualBox shows the guest only one CPU but schedules its execution across all CPU's (so says http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=2435 )
15:54:28peturjugel: erm, use all cores for its I/O tasks
15:54:33petur*kugel
15:54:45kugelpetur: I used make -j, and never got above 50% cpu usage in the host (XP)
15:55:06funmanonly for IO
15:55:42LambdaCalculus37kugel: Just tell people that it's still rather kludgey.
15:55:52LambdaCalculus37Besides, someone with a beast can help work on it.
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15:56:37funmanah no, reading further shows that it should use all cores
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15:58:35amiconnNo virtualiser can magically combine cores
15:59:44amiconnSo if the guest sees only one core, it effectively uses only one core. It can use further cores for asynchronous tasks like I/O though
16:00
16:00:49kugelLambdaCalculus37: okokok
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16:09:04kugelLambdaCalculus37: did
16:09:39LambdaCalculus37kugel: I'll take a look through the patch and see if maybe I can zero in on the problem.
16:11:18kugelLambdaCalculus37: I don't understand why it's still ignoring the backlight setting. backlight_brightness initialized with the default brightness, but always modified within _backlight_set_brightness (which is supposed to be called when you change the setting)
16:13:16kugelapart from that, beast should be able to use real pwn fading
16:19:37jhMikeSbeast bl fading? I tried to use that but the HW fading really kind of well, sucks. it doesn't reverse the cycle in the middle of a fade.
16:20:28LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: Hey there! Want to take a look at FS #6800?
16:20:30jhMikeSI could have done something wrong of course but I wasn't too encouraged.
16:20:44jhMikeS#6800? That's sounds rather ancient.
16:21:08LambdaCalculus37kugel was working on a newer version of it, and I also made a version of the patch synced to recent SVN.
16:22:10kugeljhMikeS: ancient yes, due to rotting
16:22:22kugelit's a nice patch
16:23:26kugeljhMikeS: you might want to take a look at the latest version I just uploaded some minutes ago
16:23:42jhMikeSto start with we can disable the HW fade though
16:24:25kugelcan we? is "fading in software" preferable over hw fading?
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16:24:46jhMikeSnot if the HW fading could actually be made to work how we need it to of course
16:25:35kugelwell, it seems that fading up works, but fading down not
16:25:57kugelin hardware
16:26:24jhMikeSthat's where the problem was. the datasheet tells how to do it. like I said, the ramp doesn't seem to be interruptable.
16:26:51LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: Is the datasheet up in the wiki?
16:27:02kugelso, software fade is preferable over a mix of both?
16:27:04jhMikeSno, it's NDA crap
16:27:23LambdaCalculus37Crap. :(
16:27:44funkydoes anyone here use his ipod throuhg a dockstation? it doesn't work
16:28:06LambdaCalculus37kugel: As long as it doesn't hamper performance, I suppose.
16:28:06jhMikeSof course we just got handed a copy from freescale without signing anything. I think they just don't want it on the web.
16:28:26*LambdaCalculus37 puts on his pirate hat and eye patch
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16:29:46jhMikeSkugel: well, if you can poke at it to get HW to work, my view is that is better
16:30:38kugeljhMikeS, LambdaCalculus37: the patch at fs#6800 is performing well. it uses the backlight thread and can be interrupted while fading
16:31:21kugelI don't think I get the hardware to work. I haven't messed with beast at all, as I don't own it
16:31:40*jhMikeS just wants to think about committing the charging code and then doing and powermgmt reworking
16:32:56jhMikeSdoesn't SW fading cause little flashes of extra brightness betwee steps?
16:32:56kugeljhMikeS: I heard the beast cannot really charge on a usb connection because of the disk spinning all the time. can this be fixed (I doubt it's intended)
16:33:14kugeljhMikeS: not this one
16:33:26jhMikeSkugel: I should be fixable if the disk will spin down while connected
16:34:09jhMikeSkugel: Getting all those levels was sort of a hack. I think it is only happens when ramping brigtness up.
16:34:31kugelfeel free to try the patch. I've added basic (not really working) support for gigabeat s, but it works just fine on c200&e200
16:35:02jhMikeSkugel: okiedokie. how many levels hath the e200?
16:35:28kugel12, I'm using 5 though and it still looks great
16:37:53*jhMikeS 's e200 is being charged for now
16:38:17funmanin fact timer2 isn't used by the hardware, it is used by the software for its own timing management
16:40:21kugeljhMikeS: you can safely disconnect your sansa in the middle of charging :)
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16:45:23kugeljhMikeS: do you have an idea how to disable the hardware fading up?
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16:48:57LambdaCalculus37jhMikeS: The SW fading did cause the brightness on my Gigbeast LCD to max out before fading down.
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16:49:40kugelLambdaCalculus37: that was the version as of yesterday though, wasn't it?
16:50:30LambdaCalculus37kugel: Yes. Like I said, my battery ran out before I could try the new version.
16:51:45kugelsounded like it's still preset
16:51:49kugelpresent*
16:54:57*funman notices he forgot to enable a clock in its sd code
16:55:17*funman is filled by a sudden hope
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16:58:50netmishello
16:59:05netmisi saw that onda players are wip
16:59:16netmiswhat is the current status?
16:59:37netmisis rockchip going to be supported?
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16:59:46netmis2706 am interested in
17:00
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17:01:06ntemisanyone?
17:03:38ntemisOnda VX747
17:03:52funmanntemis: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/OndaVX747
17:03:59ntemiswhat are i saw it
17:04:04ntemisi saw it
17:04:10ntemisnot ready yet
17:04:13ntemis:)
17:04:37ntemiswhat are the advantages of using this firmware instead of the original one?
17:04:49LambdaCalculus37http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox
17:05:27funmanevery question has its wiki answer :)
17:06:46linuxstbfunman: What encryption is used on the newer ipods, and what are the keys?
17:07:23ntemiswhat about rockchip?
17:07:27funmanlinuxstb: 42
17:07:31ntemisi have a lot of these
17:07:43ntemiscan anything done on them?
17:08:01ntemisrockchip 2706
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17:09:04funmanntemis: it seems nobody did write the support for it
17:09:30ntemisi have onda
17:09:38ntemiswhen ready i will test out
17:10:07ntemisbut is good to see a port for rockchip because i have a lot and onda only one
17:10:08funmanyou can check/subscribe to the forum thread to know the progress
17:10:46funmanfor rockchip the only thing you can do is write it yourself
17:10:52ntemiscan i have subtitles with *.srt being payed automaticaly?
17:11:04ntemiscan subs be supported?
17:11:14ntemissrt am interested in
17:11:26ntemison onda
17:11:43ntemisthat would be great addon
17:11:44mevenntemis: this would be intertesting
17:11:51saratogastop using enter as punctuation
17:11:52mevenand really convenient
17:11:59ntemisyeap
17:12:02kugelfunman: any hope I can run some more code on my fuze?
17:12:03ntemismuch!
17:12:49funmankugel: yes, write some !
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17:13:08ntemisand also codepage 1253 will be needed
17:13:22ntemisfor subttiles to show ok on me
17:13:31ntemisor else will see chinese
17:13:31funmankugel: or did you mean how to higher the size limit ?
17:13:37kugelyep
17:13:58funmanlike I told you, we need to test on e200 first
17:14:13ntemisany srt support on avis?
17:14:22kugelHillshum has a e200 afaik, and he's probably willing to test
17:15:28kugelfunman: does the e200v2 not have this small size limit? the features of fuze and e200v2 are about the same
17:16:15LambdaCalculus37ntemis: Rockbox doesn't play AVI files. Only MPEG 1/2 videos.
17:16:26ntemisit plays
17:16:35ntemisflawlessly
17:16:35funmankugel: the limit is on the file format currently, but we can try what we want on e200 and still be able to recover it
17:17:02ntemisrockchip 2706
17:17:08saratogakugel: i got a fuze finally
17:17:11saratogahow hard is it to open
17:17:14linuxstbfunman: Have you thought about using something like UCL to compress the OF?
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17:17:55kugelsaratoga: quite hard. Use a knife
17:17:57jhMikeSkugel: one moment on the disable stuff
17:18:35kugelsaratoga: just pay extra intention on the connection cable of the scrollwheel. it turned out to be extra sensible
17:18:44kugelattention*
17:19:24*linuxstb tests how much UCL would compress the Clip's OF...
17:19:38jhMikeSkugel: remove the MC13783_LEDMDRAMPUP/DOWN bits and that does it iirc
17:20:00jhMikeS...in _backlight_init()
17:20:17kugelok, will do.
17:21:37linuxstbfunman: UCL compresses the 119336 byte Clip firmware (v1.1.17a) to 77964 bytes, so would give us a fair amount of space for a bootloader...
17:22:10linuxstbfunman: That's if I understand the process correctly - that you can copy the firmware from ROM to RAM, and then run it...
17:24:51kugelLambdaCalculus37: can you remember how it faded down exactly?
17:25:31kugelLambdaCalculus37: was it a) fading down to nearly-off, then max brightness shortly, then really off or b) max brightness, then fading down to off
17:26:44LambdaCalculus37kugel: It was b).
17:26:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:26:53kugelok
17:27:19kugeltell me when you're ready for a new test build
17:29:32LambdaCalculus37kugel: In about 20 minutes, upload a new build and give me the signal when it's up.
17:29:51LambdaCalculus37I want to make sure the battery's got enough charge.
17:29:53wpyhI'm trying to make the settings menu more user-friendly by moving things around. Here is a preliminary patch: http://pastebin.ca/1214352
17:31:00wpyhso far, some concerns have been raised: the patch makes it easy for regular users, while making it more difficult/complicated for advanced users to change sound settings
17:32:08wpyhthe reason is that I'm hiding seldom-used settings under a new submenu "Advanced Sound Settings", advanced users who want to modify advanced settings would have to make a few more clicks than they have to with the current state.
17:32:58wpyhDoes anyone have any idea how to make the menu simpler for regular users to use (to not scare them away), but not more complicated for advanced users?
17:37:09kugelwhat's the benifit of putting stuff simply into a submenu?
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17:38:04kugelI'm all for some rearrangement, but that's not what I would call beneficial
17:39:02wpyhkugel: the benefit is that the Sound Settings menu would become less cluttered.
17:39:19wpyhAlthough I see that devs don't like it...
17:39:29kugelif it's too complicated for the users, they'll ignore it. What makes you think they're scared and what's the result of the scare
17:40:01kugelI'm not a dev and I don't like it very much either
17:40:43kugelit's basically just hiding some options for some people and making ways longer for the other people
17:41:05wpyhI think it scares users away because it's too complicated −− the menu is full of options that people seldom use
17:41:14kugeland new users tend to click on advanced at least once anyway, which kills the "they're scared" argument
17:43:48LambdaCalculus37kugel: How many people have probably clicked on "Debug (Keep Out!)" as well?
17:44:15wpyhkugel: yes, but they will realize that "ah, this is not the place for me" and will never go there again
17:44:16kugelmasses
17:44:32kugelespecially since the "keep out" only appears in english.lang
17:45:14kugelwpyh: so you actually intend to keep users away from the settings which make rockbox to what it is?
17:45:37 Quit austriancoder ("Lost terminal")
17:45:38kugelLambdaCalculus37: updated the build, link is the same
17:45:43LambdaCalculus37kugel: No, the "keep out" is in a few of the other languages... I know it's in Tagalog.
17:45:56LambdaCalculus37kugel: Okay, going to download now.
17:46:51kugelLambdaCalculus37: oh, how could I forget about tagalog! :S
17:47:07wpyhyeah
17:47:28kugelanyway, I correct my self to "not appearing in most languages"
17:47:47funmanlinuxstb: indeed sounds like a very good idea
17:47:54wpyhkugel: I would not view those settings as "which make rockbox what it is", but yes, I intend to hide regular users from the more advanced settings
17:48:23linuxstbfunman: Does the OF copy itself from ROM to RAM?
17:48:36wpyhI think we should work out some solution that does not make it difficult for advanced users...
17:48:48funmanI don't really know but I can search a copy routine
17:48:51LambdaCalculus37wpyh: But it's also a matter of knowing exactly what's a "more advanced setting" to average users. Some people may enjoy the more complicated settings.
17:49:04kugelwell, I mainly use rockbox because of it's advanced audio features and costumizability of audio experience (and UI ofc). Also, that's what it's designed fo
17:49:49*kugel adds adds a r
17:49:52LambdaCalculus37wpyh: I think the best way to do this is to post a patch to Flyspray, and (if you're up to it) maybe offering a unofficial build on the forum that has the patch applied.
17:50:04linuxstbfunman: Because if it does, I think we may need patch the firmware remove that feature...
17:50:04LambdaCalculus37Then people can try it and give you feedback on what they do and don't like.
17:50:18wpyhyes, and for those people, they can always open the advanced settings menu. of course, another option would be to put the basic settings on top and the advanced settings belw
17:50:20wpyh*below
17:50:34funmanlinuxstb: can you rephrase ?
17:50:48wpyhLambdaCalculus37: it was said earlier today that this kind of patch should not go into flyspray...
17:51:08linuxstbfunman: If there is a copy loop, I think we will need to patch the OF to remove that copy
17:51:32funmanwhy that ? what if we want to boot the OF ?
17:51:58funmanoh I understand
17:52:01linuxstbfunman: The bootloader uncompresses the OF into RAM
17:52:02LambdaCalculus37wpyh: I agree that it should.
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17:52:33wpyhLambdaCalculus37: how about offering an alternative repository with unofficial patches?
17:52:37kugelwpyh: What is it else? A patch that goes directly into svn?
17:53:01LambdaCalculus37wpyh: Where do you think most of the unofficial patches are? ;0
17:53:10LambdaCalculus37s/;0/;)
17:53:46wpyhLambdaCalculus37: flyspray :p but it's been said that flyspray is not meant for such code...
17:53:57wpyhkugel: I don't quite understand your last sentence...
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17:54:25kugelyou said it's not suitable for flyspray
17:55:05wpyhah
17:55:17kugelyou don't want to put it there, but you want it in svn. that makes no sense
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17:55:44kugelLambdaCalculus37: updates on backlight fade please :)
17:55:57wpyhquote from #rockbox-community: (12:00:30) Llorean: wpyh: If you're doing work you don't intend to be committed into SVN, it shouldn't be on flyspray.
17:56:11LambdaCalculus37kugel: Oh, right! :P
17:56:25*LambdaCalculus37 gets his Gigabeast off the charger
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17:56:38wpyhbecause this patch won't ever make it to svn, I should not be putting it on flyspray
17:57:05kugelwell, I'd just drop the idea if I wouldn't see a chance to get it into svn
17:57:47wpyhkugel: I did that before, but it's getting uneasy. I would like to adapt my idea so devs (and advanced users) aren't put off by it.
17:57:52kugeland I wouldn't even work on patches I don't want to have in svn (where the sense in that anyway?)
17:58:38wpyhand another quote: (11:58:08) Llorean: scorche: That patch isn't suited for Rockbox anyway. It's more or less the beginning of doing exactly what I said he shouldn't have it do (hiding things in "Advanced" menus)
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17:59:20wpyhkugel: I actually want it to be in svn, but it seems that the patch is not good enough... which is why I'm thinking of how to improve it to make it good enough to go into svn.
17:59:48bill2or3I've narrowed down my non-booting H340 problem. It'll boot Rockbox if I'm in the bootloader-USB-mode and pull the usb cable out, but wont boot Rockbox directly from power-up, giving a "ATA Error: -1" message. Does anyone have any ideas on how those two boots may differ, in the bootloader code?
18:00
18:00:15LambdaCalculus37kugel: Ready?
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18:01:06LambdaCalculus37kugel: Backlight brightness is still not matching to the setting I have it at. The backlight fades, but it raises the backlight to max brightness just before fading out.
18:01:16 Quit petur ("gonne")
18:01:47kugelgrr
18:01:48LambdaCalculus37If I try turning the backlight on with a button press, it comes back on, but very dim. If I touch any button when the backlight raises to max brightness, the backlight gets "stuck" at that brightness.
18:02:21kugeldoes setting the backlight in the settings do anything now at least?
18:02:51kugelLambdaCalculus37: ahh wait
18:02:55LambdaCalculus37kugel: Nope. Still nothing.
18:03:01kugelSeems I haven't uploaded the build!
18:04:37kugelLambdaCalculus37: now, redownload please :S
18:05:02*kugel didn't press the red button to overwrite
18:07:57*LambdaCalculus37 had to go into the logs to get the link again
18:09:19LambdaCalculus37kugel: Updating now.
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18:10:42funmanlinuxstb: no I can't find a copy routine in the OF
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18:11:15funmanin fact it seems to assume it's already in RAM (after changing the coprocessor register cp15)
18:11:56funmanwhile during my tests, I couldn't write to the memory below 128kB, unless I had remapped the RAM at offset 0 (which is done by a special register, unused in the OF)
18:12:55funmanweirdly, in my first test, I remapped the RAM at offset 0 but didn't copy the full OF first, which led me think that the AS3525 already had copied the ROM content into RAM
18:13:11LambdaCalculus37kugel: Now the backlight fades, but if I let it fade entirely, no amount of button pressing makes it snap back on.
18:13:22LambdaCalculus37If I catch it in the middle of fading, it raises to max brightness.
18:13:28funmanbut now looking at the code I think when it boots it's already in RAM and I did a wrong test back then
18:13:37funmanI'll check exactly what it changes in cp15
18:13:53kugelLambdaCalculus37: so it goes back on after fading?
18:14:14linuxstbfunman: So maybe there is a first-level bootloader that copies the contents of the ROM to RAM?
18:14:18LambdaCalculus37kugel: No, it doesn't.
18:14:25*linuxstb checks the datasheet
18:14:33kugelah you mean you can't turn it on anymore?
18:14:34LambdaCalculus37It's almost like the LCD turns off entirely.
18:14:55LambdaCalculus37kugel: Right!
18:15:40kugelok, I think what's causing it
18:15:52kugelbut you can get it on by restarting?
18:16:16kugelif possible, do a quick check if the backlight setting is working now
18:16:34LambdaCalculus37kugel: The backlight setting still doesn't do anything.
18:16:52*kugel can't explain that
18:17:23kugeldoes it still go to max brightness before fading down?
18:17:45linuxstbfunman: Have you tested (for example), writing to a PC-relative address in the bootloader code, and then reading the value back? This would tell us if we're running from ROM or RAM.
18:18:10LambdaCalculus37kugel: Still does, and I can still press a button and "catch" that setting.
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18:26:59kugeljhMikeS: can you explain why LCD_ENABLE is defined for beast, but not actually used?
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18:27:30kugelHAVE_LCD_ENABLE rather
18:27:51linuxstbfunman: So you don't think the OF writes to CCU_MEMMAP ?
18:28:01kugelLambdaCalculus37: next version up in a minute
18:28:01funmanlinuxstb: I tested an absolute value back then
18:28:18funmanI see no cross reference in IDA, I looked for all the CCU registers
18:29:06funmanbecause sometimes it loads a register, and sub/add a few offsets from it
18:30:14funmanafter modifying cp15, the OF clears memory, descending from SP to the end of firmware block (hence, below 128kB)
18:30:31funmangtg, I'll be back later this evening
18:30:45funmanyou can highlight me if needed
18:30:57kugelLambdaCalculus37: I now used almost exactly the same code as in e200
18:31:18linuxstbfunman: OK, so you think it's likely that RAM has already been remapped to 0x0 when the OF is started?
18:31:30linuxstbIf so, then I think this UCL trick will work...
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18:35:05kugelLambdaCalculus37: are you already installing? :P
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18:38:46LambdaCalculus37kugel: Eating lunch. Two minutes and I'll install.
18:38:52kugelnice
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18:40:05kugellinuxstb: if there's anything to test on a v2 device let me know
18:40:19linuxstbkugel: You _really_ don't want to test this idea...
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18:42:39LambdaCalculus37kugel: Cross your fingers. :)
18:42:41kugelhm
18:42:48kugelwill do
18:43:07*LambdaCalculus37 updates
18:45:34kugelmy fingers begin to hurt
18:45:53LambdaCalculus37You can relax your fingers. :)
18:46:52LambdaCalculus37The backlight brightness setting works now, *but*!... the backlight still doesn't come back on after it fades out.
18:47:05kugelduh
18:47:11kugelthe setting at least works
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18:47:22kugeland I guess it
18:47:36LambdaCalculus37But now you have to figure out how to get the backlight to snap back on after it fades out.
18:47:37kugel's still going for max brightness before fading down
18:48:09LambdaCalculus37kugel: Actually, it's not going for max brightness anymore. It's using the setting it's at.
18:48:32LambdaCalculus37Also, the fadeout is kind of clunky looking.
18:48:51kugelclunky looking? explain please
18:49:21kugelas in, not fluently?
18:49:49LambdaCalculus37kugel: It's not fluid, if that's what you're asking.
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18:49:53kugelif yes, that's possibly caused by the pwn table
18:50:42LambdaCalculus37kugel: I've gotta run for a little bit, so I'll check the logs.
18:50:45*kugel sets this assumption to true and focuses on the remaining bug
18:50:55kugeloh noes!
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18:51:43Hillshum_kugul: test?
18:51:48Hillshum_kugel
18:53:13kugelHillshum_: I told funman that you're possibly available to test some e200v2 code
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18:53:28Hillshum_does he have a patch?
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18:53:41funmanno, no patch
18:56:27bertrikfunman, you did some sg3-utils experiments already?
18:57:19bertrikI noticed in the forum thread that the id of the clip recovery device could not be read, but it could read the capacity
18:57:30*Hillshum_ just got a 500 internal server error when submitting a wiki edit
18:57:52funmanbertrik: yes but nothing interesting, the device fails to answer to most queries
18:58:07bertrikwhat about a scsi inquiry?
18:58:25funmanin fact it reports 0 blocks, but Linux doesn't handle such devices and report 1 block (of 512 bytes)
18:59:28bertrikit would at least be interesting to find out which scsi commands are supported and which ones are not (and which sense data they return for those commands if any)
19:00
19:00:03bertrikthe idea is to bypass the linux block device layer, so how linux interprets things is mostly irrelevant
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19:03:16funmanhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/52524/
19:04:30funmanhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/52525/ < weird dynamic answers
19:05:37bertrikhmm, can you do a hex dump of the raw data?
19:06:13bertrikadd -H to the sg_inq command IIRC
19:06:16funmanit's the same data reported by sg0
19:06:19funmanah for inq
19:07:03funmanhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/52527/
19:08:10funmanlinuxstb: I'll try again writing to the memory
19:08:40linuxstbfunman: Do you know what those bits in CP15 do?
19:08:49kugeljhMikeS: can you tell my why HAVE_LCD_ENABLE is defined for the beast even though lcd_enable is not implemented?
19:08:59funmanyes, among others it "disables the MMU"
19:09:51funmanit clears bits 31, 30, 12, 2, and 0 of the control register of cp15
19:09:54bertrikinteresting, the "UNDEF" vendor is apparently actually sent in the inquiry date (I assumed it was just reported as an unknown string by linux/sg3-utils)
19:10:20funmanbertrik: it's reported as well by the linux mass storage driver
19:10:45linuxstbfunman: Hmm, I'm just looking at the ARM tech reference now...
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19:14:03linuxstbfunman: Hmm, so it seems like it's definitely not remapping RAM before it zeros the BSS and stacks. So I would say it's already copied to RAM...
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19:21:19linuxstbfunman: I think we're being stupid - the internal *ROM* is ROM, and I think that just stores a standard AMS bootloader, which will load the main firmware image from the NAND flash disk (or external NOR flash if it exists in the device)
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19:22:04linuxstbfunman: So this trick should work fine...
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19:23:23kugelLambdaCalculus37: alert me when you're back
19:24:15funmanlinuxstb: very possible, let me do some tests later this evening/night - right now my brother's girl friend is screaming after me to cook for her :o
19:24:29linuxstbfunman: OK, I'm leaving to go home now as well. Speak to you later...
19:26:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:28:19LambdaCalculus37kugel: Back!
19:31:52jhMikeSkugel: Is it? I wasn't aware of that.
19:32:03kugelLambdaCalculus37: I've got a new build
19:33:00LambdaCalculus37kugel: Up in the same link?
19:33:02kugeljhMikeS: config-gigabeat-s.h line 76
19:33:08kugelLambdaCalculus37: sure
19:33:23LambdaCalculus37kugel: I'll get the link in the logs.
19:33:52jhMikeSkugel: there is no reason for it now until the commands can be sent or if we just wish to have the screen not refresh with no backligh
19:34:04kugelLambdaCalculus37: http://www.alice-dsl.net/simonemartitz/forlambda/rockbox.zip
19:37:25kugelnot #defining it saves 100bytes
19:37:32kugelbinsize
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19:39:19LambdaCalculus37kugel: Here goes nothing! :)
19:39:31kugelwhat?
19:41:29LambdaCalculus37kugel: Backlight settings are broken again, clicking a button during fadeout brings the backlight to the setting defined in Backlight Settings, and if the backlight fades out completely, it doesn't come back on.
19:42:09kugelthe second "issue" is intended
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19:45:45kugelLambdaCalculus37: While do you smile? :(
19:46:23*gevaerts tries to think about how to organize usb endpoints
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19:48:50kugelLambdaCalculus37: next attempt is online
19:50:58*LambdaCalculus37 wonders if his Gigabeast is enjoying all of this constant updating the build business
19:51:58LambdaCalculus37Crap!
19:52:00kugelof course, it's pure joy for him
19:52:13*LambdaCalculus37 hooked up the Gigabeast in MTP mode!
19:52:49 Part fragilematter
19:52:49kugelwill it explode now?
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19:56:47LambdaCalculus37kugel: Good news... backlight fade out and fade in are working!
19:56:49 Quit shotofadds (Client Quit)
19:57:05kugelwhat's not working?
19:57:08 Join shotofadds [0] (n=rob@rockbox/developer/shotofadds)
19:57:14LambdaCalculus37Backlight settings.
19:57:18kugelok
19:57:39LambdaCalculus37kugel: So once you get the entire thing working, make a new patch for Flyspray.
19:59:13kugelLambdaCalculus37: next attempt up in a few seconds
19:59:58*gevaerts summons vitja
20:00
20:05:02kugelLambdaCalculus37: now
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20:12:03LambdaCalculus37kugel: "Great success!" :)
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20:14:12kugelworking properly? try with different settings
20:14:23kugelalso, still clunky?
20:14:55LambdaCalculus37kugel: The fading is smoother now.
20:15:13LambdaCalculus37Backlight settings work now.
20:15:23LambdaCalculus37And it's fading in and out properly.
20:15:33LambdaCalculus37I say you've got yourself a patch for Flyspray! :)
20:15:50Peter15hoi
20:15:51kugelit could possibly getting clunky with higher backlight settings. The backlight pwm table gets inconsistent above 15
20:16:08LambdaCalculus37kugel: I have my setting at 20.
20:16:25kugelplay a bit more around please
20:16:26Peter15spricht hier jemand deutsch??
20:16:42kugelPeter15: not in this channel
20:16:51LambdaCalculus37Peter15: English only.
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20:17:07Peter15german channel??
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20:18:02Peter15german channel?? for rockbox problem
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20:19:13LambdaCalculus37kugel: Nope, it's fine through all of the settings above 15.
20:19:18kugelPeter15: there's a german forum: www.rockbox-lounge.com
20:19:30Peter15thx
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20:19:49kugelLambdaCalculus37: sounds great. How about low settings, how about interrupting it while fading?
20:20:06LambdaCalculus37kugel: Let me play around with it.
20:24:01LambdaCalculus37kugel: Interrupting it while fading makes the fade in just a wee bit clunky. Other than that, it's working very well.
20:24:12*LambdaCalculus37 gives kugel a pizza
20:24:36 Quit webguest38 (Client Quit)
20:24:36kugel\o/ now I'm happy!
20:25:25kugelLambdaCalculus37: give me a beer instead. I'm already eating mussels
20:25:57LambdaCalculus37kugel: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Chimays.jpg/800px-Chimays.jpg
20:26:16kugel<3 thanks
20:26:18LambdaCalculus37kugel: Flyspray time?
20:26:23kugelsoon
20:30:31LambdaCalculus37Let me know when.
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20:38:18x1jmpJust discovered that NIN released a new album as CC :)
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20:39:05x1jmpthey provide FLAC with 24/96, any chance to play them back with rockbox or does it make sense at all to play these files on an iriver?
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20:40:20kugelLambdaCalculus37: it's up
20:40:34zex1jmp: 24/96?
20:40:35kugelLambdaCalculus37: thanks a lot for your testing. Really, you made it possible :)
20:40:41zex1jmp: you sure?
20:40:59x1jmpze: 24bit and 96khz, yes I’m sure :)
20:41:12LambdaCalculus37kugel: You're welcome. :)
20:41:29zex1jmp: you talking about ghosts i-iv or another new one?
20:41:40zecause i bought that in flac and its only 16/44.1 :/
20:41:52x1jmpze: the new one is called "The Slip"
20:41:57zeah
20:42:28zei guess ghosts i-iv must've done well if they're already doing another and CC'ing it too
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20:43:03x1jmpare there other CCs released by NIN?
20:43:20zejust ghosts afaik
20:43:38x1jmpbtw you can finde the slip there: http://dl.nin.com/theslip/download?token=Tn2bofkq&submit.x=46&submit.y=14&submit=1
20:43:41LambdaCalculus37x1jmp: That's off-topic for this channel.
20:44:11x1jmpLambdaCalculus37: sorry
20:44:34x1jmpso can Rockbox play file with 24bit?
20:45:22linuxstbamiconn: Do you know anything about "in-place" UCL decompression? Looking at firmware/decompressor/decompressor.c, that code appears to copy the compressed image to the end of RAM before uncompressing it, but the UCL docs claim the format can be decompressed in-place...
20:45:26zei saw someone a while back talking about a particular unit being technically capable of it... no idea if it even panned out to be usable as such, or which unit it was, etc
20:45:36gevaertsx1jmp: I'm not sure if it can, but it will have to downsample it to 16 bit 44.1kHz anyway, as that's what the hardware handles
20:46:04gevaertsSo it doesn't make much sense to put higher quality files on the player
20:46:34 Quit makicar ()
20:46:42amiconnlinuxstb: I have no idea. The thinned-out decompressor definitely doesn't support in-place decompression. And the code does not just appear to copy, it does copy ;)
20:47:14linuxstbamiconn: OK, I'll search the UCL source...
20:47:25amiconnlinuxstb: Btw, I think it would make sense to use thumb on the logicdax for most things (if not all..)
20:47:35x1jmpgevaerts: ah, thanks for that information, that answers my question...
20:48:21bill2or3is the source for the (iRiver) bootloader patch available? I have a wierd problem booting my H340 and I think seeing that source would help me debug it.
20:50:50 Quit Peter15 ()
20:51:28linuxstbamiconn: Seems that for in-place decompression, you just put the compressed image at the end of the "output buffer" and use the same decompress function.
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20:52:42amiconnAh, so you have to move the data anyway (if it's not yet where it has to be)
20:52:52linuxstbYes, not what I would have called "in-place"...
20:53:21amiconnAnd in case of decompressor.c it's just not worth calculating the necessary position. We don't lose any ram by putting it at the end. It's temporary anyway
20:56:20linuxstbI think it will be needed in the case of the Sansa V2 bootloaders though - we don't (yet) know what's in the rest of RAM, so it's risky to write to it. So this means we can stay completely in the part of RAM the OF is loaded to.
20:56:23*amiconn thinks that this in-place decompression is only useful when loading compressed data from disk
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21:13:38ameyerwell... I guess I'm not as bad as some of you guys but I just purchased an iPod mini to CF mod...
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21:52:45joecrushHi, I was looking for a particular Rockbox build that incorporates a hardware patch that was being worked on
21:54:05 Quit Schmogel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
21:54:18Lloreanjoecrush: We don't really track or provide support for unsupported builds
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21:54:59gevaertsjoecrush: telling us what this patch is might also help...
21:55:34joecrushUnfortunately I don't remember the name, it was one that was attempting to make Rockbox work with some hardware such as car iPod players and such
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21:56:07gevaertsah, you want soap's apple accessory protocol build. See the unsupported build section on the forums
21:56:36*gevaerts hopes that Llorean will grant an exception for this particular build
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21:57:52joecrushAh, that's it, thanks a lot
21:58:16Lloreangevaerts: I didn't say we couldn't tell him about it. Just said we don't really track them.
21:58:39 Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
21:58:39gevaertsLlorean: indeed you didn't :)
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22:03:32pixelmapetur: could http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=18809 have to do with the patch you committed? There are two reports, both are on Ipod Mini (as I remember there were issues with the Minis and it reminded me of the first reports of midiplayer on PP targets where the midis where played twice as fast because it used 22.05kHz sample rate so maybe if their files are lower sample rate too...). Just a guess though
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22:04:31peturpixelma: yes, I made an error there that I still have to fix
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22:07:28pixelmaok, was just wondering if this wrong playback could be the result of that
22:08:07peturamiconn already pointed me at my error :/
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22:09:33LloreanMarcGuay: I wouldn't go saying "Unprovoked" right off the bat without knowing how he's been using the player, etc, or really commenting on it at all without first checking if the OF has the same sort of thing happen to it occasionally.
22:09:39 Quit jeffdameth (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:11:22*linuxstb finds a UCL decompress function in 178 bytes of hand-written thumb code, compared to about 1500 bytes of gcc generated ARM code...
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22:12:56joe2371When upgrading to r18670, do I need to rebuild the bootloader as well? Or can I use the one from r18529?
22:13:32 Quit joecrush ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:13:41gevaertsjoecrush: bootloaders are only updated very rarely
22:14:09joe2371gevaerts: ok, thanks.
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22:31:22markunlinuxstb: do we still want to experiment with thumb some day?
22:32:52linuxstbmarkun: Yes, I think so. The Clip for example only has 320KB of RAM... Some of the telechips flash-based targets (DAX, M200) have 2MB, but even there, thumb will probably be useful.
22:33:14 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]")
22:35:15peturanybody with a mini 1g/2g here that could test if playback works again now?
22:35:41gevaertspetur: I'm on it. Current revision and just before?
22:35:47gevaertsAlso, what sort of files?
22:35:50peturlatest
22:36:11Lloreangevaerts: Should be any, but reported on MP3 and FLAC.
22:36:21gevaertsI'm just thinking that reproducing with a slightly older revision first would be useful
22:37:15peturthe current 'daily' probably has the bug
22:40:23joe2371How does the version in svn typically compare to the latest release? Obviously, there is a greater chance of breakage in the svn version... but mostly in parts of the tree under heavy development. I should think there would also be more chances of... "fixage" (to coin a term) in svn as well, at least in parts of the tree that are not under heavy development at the moment, but that have seen a good bit of development since the last rel
22:40:23 Quit hannesd (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:40:24*gevaerts builds builds
22:40:43peturdownloading would have worked too ;)
22:40:53gevaertstrue :)
22:41:02joe2371downloading binaries is for squares
22:41:14*gevaerts looks at funman
22:41:24Bagderjoe2371: generally speaking, the svn builds are rather stable but if you're unlucky you may hit one that is bad
22:41:46joe2371Bagder: how unlucky? Like bricked, unlucky? Or just pita unlucky?
22:41:48gevaertsjoe2371: the main thing about running the release is that the bugs are (mostly) known
22:41:55joe2371gotcha
22:42:12Bagderjoe2371: just unlucky to the extent you may need to get another build to get a working rockbox again
22:42:51joe2371Bagder: or revert to last release so you can listen to music while you wait for commits?
22:43:00Bagderyeps
22:43:15joe2371I am less concerned now. :-)
22:43:21*gevaerts likes the effect of petur's bug :)
22:43:26Bagdermost of us here always run svn builds...
22:43:46peturgevaerts: plays at double speed?
22:43:46gevaertspetur: any chance of having that as a setting?
22:43:46joe2371oic, well that makes hacking.. well... more topical, at least.
22:44:04gevaertspetur: Now building the fixed one
22:44:16peturgevaerts: try the pitch screen for that effect
22:44:32gevaertsOr for the workaround :)
22:46:27 Quit meven (Remote closed the connection)
22:46:58gevaertspetur: r18673 works properly
22:48:03gevaertshttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=18798.msg135751 looks like a bug to me. That's at least the third one in the last week or so
22:48:48peturgevaerts: thanks
22:52:30gevaertsCould this be caused by JdGordon's playlist cleanup?
22:53:46kugeljhMikeS: hey, I got the fading to work, just might want to watch it on your devices
22:54:17joe2371I have a sansa e2X0 and I have been starting to hack around with it. However, I was dismayed to discover that the Portal Player pp50XX chips are NDA'ed. The modifications I have in mind almost all would use the undocumented hardware registers of these chips. Does anyone know if any documentation of these registers exists within the FLOSS community? Or does (anyone know if) rockbox merely hook(s) into the OEM firmware somehow?
22:54:45Bagderjoe2371: all the PP knowledge we have is 100% reverse engineered
22:54:47Bagderthere is no docs
22:54:48joe2371I mean, is there a rockbox-sansa-hacking group?
22:55:00Bagdersure, we're here
22:55:12*pixelma hands out the axes
22:55:12Bagderthe rockbox dev group is a single large one
22:55:21joe2371Ok.
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22:55:49joe2371So the PP knowlege we have is entirely contained in the sources?
22:55:50 Quit herrwaldo (Remote closed the connection)
22:55:57Bagderyes, and in the wiki
22:56:04gevaertsIn the sources, the wiki, and some heads
22:56:05Bagderand some used to be found in the ipl wiki
22:57:08Bagderand on my sansa pages
22:57:24Bagderlike http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200.html
22:57:35joe2371Well, fortunately, Portal Player was bought by nVidia, so the full whitepapers ought to be freely available any minute now. ;-)
22:57:40BigBambiha
22:57:41Bagderbut that's perhaps not so PP but more sansa
22:57:56Bagderjoe2371: yeah right
22:58:13Bagdernvidia, the frontier of freedom!
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23:00
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23:00:29bill2or3I don't suppose Linus is here?
23:00:45gevaertsApparently not
23:01:00bill2or3 :-)
23:01:22gevaertsUnless he's undercover, spying on us with a different nick
23:01:26bill2or3I have questions about the iriver bootloader, and I think he'd know.
23:01:36bill2or3I also have an H340 that doesn't boot. :-(
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23:02:36gevaertsYou could always ask. Maybe someone else knows
23:04:02bluebrotheror maybe LinusN reads the logs?
23:04:03bill2or3ok. I boot my H340, and get "ATA Error: -1." I see from reading iriver_h300.c this indicates a -1 returned from ata_init()
23:04:06bill2or3but....
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23:04:37bill2or3if I turn it on by inserting the cable, it goes into 'Bootloader USB mode', and when I remove the cable it boots into rockbox properly.
23:05:05*funman looks back at gevaerts
23:05:09bill2or3it almost seems like the drive isn't spinning up fast enough to init. (but that's just my uneducated theory)
23:05:17bill2or3if anyone has suggestions, I'm listening.
23:06:22ameyerdamn it
23:06:38*gevaerts wonders if funman downloads binaries ;)
23:06:44*ameyer gets yet another stkov on his sansa
23:07:50gevaertsbill2or3: could be. Maybe there is a delay you could increase. The problem is that if you get the bootloader wrong on a h300, you have real problems
23:08:18bill2or3yeah, I'm not so anxious to start mucking around with it at random.
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23:10:06webguest35hey how can i fix a corrupted version.txt on the sansa e280r?
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23:17:54advcomp2019webguest68, have you tried the e200tool?
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23:18:19Bagderdoes the firmware really care about version.txt?
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23:20:24advcomp2019Bagder, i have seen the OF check it i think because OF not to boot anymore but recovery mode works
23:21:00webguest68yes I have, advcomp
23:21:17webguest68I found a thread where the version.txt fixed the problem
23:21:42webguest68but i that was with an e250
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23:27:03SpaceTravelerIs Rockbox being developed for the Olympus Mrobe i500?
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23:28:00funmanwebguest68: it's exactly the same
23:28:14webguest68the version.txt?
23:28:19gevaertsfunman: not entirely. webguest68 has an e200r
23:28:43linuxstbfunman: I've just posted my UCL suggestion to the forum thread...
23:28:59funmanah sorry the difference is with rhapsody models
23:29:01BagderSpaceTraveler: some progress have been made but it seems to have stalled lately
23:29:07webguest68true... but i pasted a verion.txt from a e260r over my corrupted one, but it didn't work
23:29:11webguest68i did it 3 times.
23:29:19funmanlinuxstb: cool :)
23:29:48SpaceTravelerok...I'll keep checking back...thanks
23:30:19linuxstbfunman: I'm thinking I can use one of my other ARM targets to test this code on. For example, on my Logik DAX I have a very safe "usb boot mode" where I can upload code to RAM and run it, without fear of bricking.
23:31:47funmanlinuxstb: if you're not in a hurry we can wait for someone to test the code on a e200
23:32:06linuxstbfunman: That's no fun ;)
23:32:44funmanor wait until tomorrow when I decide to buy an e200 by excitement :P
23:33:30gevaertsfunman: you'll get a v1
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23:34:05linuxstbfunman: BTW, what is the "toolchain" atomicpunk is referring to here? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.msg135686#msg135686
23:34:38funmangevaerts: then I'll have rockbox running and my mission will be over !
23:34:55*linuxstb wonders if there is a way to view an entire forum thread on one page
23:35:21funmanlinuxstb: I don't know, probably the gcc he built with rockbox script on windows
23:35:21*linuxstb discovers the "print page" option...
23:35:35kugellinuxstb: have you already tried to run such a compressed firmware?
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23:36:10linuxstbkugel: No, I haven't built one yet...
23:36:11jfb9301I have a question about using the Peak Meter on the WPS
23:36:28funmankugel: it's actually used for low-size archos : look in firmware/decompressor
23:37:01kugelfunman: I think linuxstb was refering to another algorithm
23:37:19linuxstbkugel: No, that's the same thing
23:37:39jfb9301is there any way of customizing the peak meter similar to the way you can customize the progress bar on the WPS?
23:37:45kugelis this the 180byte one (I haven't looked at it yet)
23:38:30linuxstbkugel: No, the 180-byte thumb version is part of the upx-3.03 source archive. Rockbox currently uses the C version
23:38:56kugelAnd I thought you were referring to this one
23:39:02funmanah upx .. I know this for packing executables, I was googling to get an ucl compressor :)
23:39:45kugelthe e200v1 should also be safe to test such a firmware, given that the manufactoring mode is basically always available
23:40:01kugeland then, there's even the preboot mode
23:40:25bluebrotherupx comes with an arm thumb asm decompressor? Nice.
23:40:42funman;j
23:40:46funmankugel: preboot ?
23:42:12kugelfunman: the v1 have 4 modes, normal, recovery, manufactoring, preboot. From any of it, you can recover (except the first one maybe ;) ) to a working state
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23:42:56linuxstbjfb9301: No, but it's been discussed in the past. So maybe someone will be interested enough to do it at some point...
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23:43:46kugelfunman: have you read my answer to linuxstb's post?
23:44:03jfb9301thanks, I sure hope someone does. I was trying to modify a WPS to have both a progress bar and a peak meter that was not the run of the mill monochrome one
23:44:24funmankugel: yes but I am not sure of the right answer
23:44:56linuxstbjfb9301: You can define a viewport with custom colours (and width), and put the peakmeter in there, but I think that's all...
23:45:18*pixelma deletes similar suggestion from input line
23:45:39jfb9301the manual also does not mention if rockbox now supports APEv2 tags, I searched the web and it appeared that it did not, yet replaygain seems to function as if rockbox does recognize APEv2
23:46:10linuxstbjfb9301: It supports APEv2 tags for files where it's the native tag format. For MP3 Rockbox only supports id3v1 and id3v2
23:46:27jfb9301custom colors and width? where might i research that?
23:46:39linuxstbjfb9301: Read about viewports in the CustomWPS wiki page
23:46:58jfb9301customwps wiki page, got it
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23:48:24linuxstbkugel: How do you know that the player doesn't update itself after you dd the new firmware to the NAND? And how do you know you're dd'ing to the NAND, and not a RAM disk (like the e200v1 recovery mode)
23:48:40jfb9301odd about the apev2, when no apev2 was present, 50% of the time my mp3s would clip out. using mp3gain (which only creates APEv2) appeared to make rockbox function in replay gain
23:48:45*linuxstb doesn't know about the e200v2's recovery mode...
23:49:06bluebrotherjfb9301: are you sure mp3gain writes replaygain tags?
23:49:29funmanlinuxstb: why using ucl ? we don't need to pack an executable and another algorithm might give use more room, even if the function which decompresses it is longer than the ucl one
23:49:34bluebrotherI remember some tool that used ape tags to remember the original amplification and changing it in the files directly
23:49:55Unhelpfuljfb9301: unless you tell it to do otherwise, it will actually rewrite the files, and record undo data in ape tags... i *think*.
23:49:57linuxstbfunman: You're confusing upx and ucl
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23:50:11jfb9301mp3gain writes gain tags as APEv2 tags, but not to the id3 tags
23:50:41kugellinuxstb: the firmware is written to the firmware partition. As I said, I might've gotten it wrong, I don't have a e200v2
23:50:42ameyerUnhelpful: I think you're right.
23:50:42linuxstbfunman: The advantage of ucl is that it decompresses very fast, and the decompression code is tiny (180 bytes for thumb) Show me another decompression function that small...
23:50:54jfb9301I made sure I was not rewriting the files, but just gain tags
23:51:08funmanlinuxstb: right, it presents very good features (no memory for decompression also)
23:51:44linuxstbfunman: Yes, that's the other good feature for us - we can do all of this within the space of the original firmware.
23:52:25bluebrotherjfb9301: well, if it stores "undo" information as the FAQ says it's not only tags like the ReplayGain Rockbox supports
23:52:50bluebrotheralso, ReplayGain has two tags: album and track gain
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23:54:31hospadarhowdy
23:54:44 Quit culture (Connection timed out)
23:54:58hospadarSo I just canned my zen so I could buy a gigabeat and play with rockbox
23:55:05hospadarand I'm wondering about developing for it
23:55:20linuxstbWhich gigabeat?
23:55:25hospadarwhere would I go to find out who needs what written
23:55:29hospadaran F40
23:55:49 Quit mcuelenaere (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:56:06linuxstbThere's not that much left that's specific to the F40. The main missing "hardware feature" is I think to flash a Rockbox bootloader to the flash ROM, which kkurbjun is (slowly) working on.
23:56:21 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:56:30hospadarwell is there general stuff that needs to be worked at all?
23:56:46bluebrotherjfb9301: from the wikipedia article it _does_ modify the files, and thus it works differently than the ReplayGain tags Rockbox supports: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3Gain
23:56:53linuxstbhospadar: Yes, everything ;)
23:57:36jfb9301bluebrother, what you are saying seems to make things make a little more sense. while my files were no longer clipping, the preamp gain of the replay gain was not funtioning.
23:58:09linuxstbhospadar: You should simply download the source and start fixing things you don't like, or implement new features... The bug/patch tracker could be a good place to start - either fixing bugs, or working on patches to get them to commit-quality.
23:58:16bluebrothersure. I looked at that software a while ago myself when searching for a tool to add replaygain tags to mp3 files.
23:58:27bluebrotherfortunately my music is now ogg ;-)
23:58:34jfb9301so, from that maybe mp3gain adjusted the gain of the mp3 and stored the undo in the apev2 tag. like you said.
23:58:48jfb9301so, how do i ad replaygain to the id3 tags?

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