00:00:02 | ameyer | although none of that does any good if someone put a 1g's guts in a 2g's case or a 2g's guts in a 1g's case |
00:00:18 | ball | Umm... can this play Ogg/Vorbis out of the box? |
00:00:54 | ameyer | yes? |
00:00:54 | bertrik | yes |
00:01:17 | ameyer | although mp3 is more efficient in current svn |
00:02:05 | ball | efficient in terms of processor load? |
00:02:12 | ameyer | not that mp3's recent optimization is particularly relevant to the question |
00:02:16 | | Quit DerDome (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
00:02:33 | ameyer | ball: yes |
00:02:54 | ball | Should I erase the music files that Apple iTunes put on the iPod? |
00:03:10 | ameyer | ball: you don't have to |
00:03:24 | ball | ameyer: will they play in Rockbox? |
00:03:34 | ameyer | although if you don't the files view is mostly useless |
00:03:55 | ameyer | ball: we're not talking FairPlay-crippled AAC, are we? |
00:04:01 | ball | I think I'm ready to start with a blank slate. |
00:04:33 | ball | ameyer: I don't know. I did accidentally plug my iPod into Mrs. ball's PC once and it shoved almost 4 Gbytes of cruft on there :-) |
00:04:43 | ball | brb, I have to reboot |
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00:12:18 | ball | Where should I look for iTunes music (on my iPod Mini) |
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00:14:02 | ball | aha, iPod_Control/Music ? |
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00:14:22 | gevaerts | Sounds like it, yes |
00:14:27 | ball | can I just remove everything in that directory? |
00:14:46 | ball | (without impacting Rockbox) |
00:14:49 | gevaerts | As far as rockbox is concerned, you only need .rockbox |
00:14:54 | ball | Thanks |
00:15:08 | ball | Does Rockbox care where I put mp3 files? |
00:15:40 | gevaerts | No |
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00:17:24 | ball | thanks |
00:17:35 | Llorean | stevenm: I just checked, my fully charged AJBR reports it's getting 5.4V from the batteries. |
00:17:52 | stevenm | Llorean, hmmm... maybe I should try feeding it that instead? |
00:18:10 | stevenm | Llorean, quite strange, 4x 1.2V = 4.8V |
00:18:26 | stevenm | Llorean, will drag it along with me and power it up at the lab.. see what it dues |
00:21:18 | stevenm | Llorean, that makes the car adapter so much less pretty... no nice 5V regulator :( |
00:22:51 | stevenm | maybe I can get an adjustable buck/boost before my trip.... |
00:24:57 | * | ameyer wonders if nimh batteries charge to above 1.2v |
00:25:32 | ameyer | I know the sansa's battery charges to 4.2V or so even though it's a "3.7V" battery |
00:25:32 | stevenm | this has gotta work... i cant stand 4 hours of radio jesus talk :( |
00:25:39 | ameyer | eww |
00:25:55 | stevenm | indeed |
00:26:45 | stevenm | Pennsylvania and West Virginia, go figure |
00:27:09 | ball | Thanks for your help chaps (and chapesses, if any there be). |
00:27:17 | ball | I'll give this rockbox thing a try this evening. |
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00:32:01 | stevenm | Llorean, well... I am off to go give 5.4V a try. In the meantime, I got samples of adjustable switching regulators, and of the AJB charging chip... maybe that'll take care of it. Thanks for the help |
00:32:11 | stevenm | see ya |
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01:42:17 | Hillshum | what do i do after running makeamsboot? |
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01:44:30 | linuxstb | Hillshum: What kind of V2 are you using, and which version of mkamsboot? |
01:44:55 | Hillshum | e200, and latest svn or git |
01:45:06 | Hillshum | can't figure out either |
01:45:50 | linuxstb | I only know the svn version of mkamsboot. So you've run mkamsboot and created a patched firmware file? |
01:47:42 | linuxstb | And I don't think the svn mkamsboot is compatible with the e200v2 bootloader built from git - and there is no e200v2 support in SVN. |
01:48:27 | Hillshum | i made a patched.bin that ran fine on my e200 a while ago |
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01:51:38 | linuxstb | Hillshum: I'm not sure what you're asking. |
01:51:51 | Hillshum | never mind |
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03:50:31 | jwoznack | may I ask a question about viewports? |
03:52:30 | jwoznack | okay, here's my question: is there a way to display an image within a viewport such that any text is displayed on top of that image? |
03:53:34 | jwoznack | I've tried, but I can't seem to do a %xda within a viewport and have it drawn before any text. it seems that text is always drawn first, followed by any images. |
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04:16:22 | Tetracomm | I have a Creative Zen and want to try to help to port Rockbox to it, what can I start by doing? |
04:17:07 | Tetracomm | and if it is that the firmware needs to be decrypted, how can I start trying to decrypt it? (what I might need and so on) |
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04:18:01 | Lars_G | Hey guys |
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04:18:19 | Lars_G | Any ideas why rockbox will suddenly out of the blue..... wait.... |
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04:37:00 | ball | From the little I've got to use RockBox this evening, I like it. |
04:37:46 | Unhelpful | ball: is that a compliment to the devs, a support request, or both? ;) |
04:37:55 | ball | A compliment. |
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04:38:58 | ball | ...that the intent, anyway. |
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04:40:10 | ball | I need to turn the 'click' off though because it sort of squeals |
04:42:21 | Unhelpful | squeals? which player do you use? |
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04:42:37 | ball | iPod Mini |
04:42:41 | ball | First generation I think |
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04:50:44 | Unhelpful | sorry, know nothing about that :/ |
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04:54:18 | ball | Unhelpful: no problem. It's not a big thing anyway. |
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05:27:49 | stevenm | Hello. Any MAS3587 people here? |
05:30:48 | ameyer | hmm... can anyone make any sense of the markings on http://crave.cnet.co.uk/digitalmusic/0,39029432,49299308-7,00.htm |
05:31:11 | ameyer | not that it's likely a 4g nano port is easily doable |
05:31:29 | stevenm | ameyer, it's got an apple logo and the word ARM on it |
05:31:35 | ameyer | right |
05:32:00 | stevenm | so if i'd hafta guess, it's an arm core surrounded by a bunch of on-die apple fancy peripherals |
05:32:18 | ameyer | probably from that semiconductor company apple bought a while back |
05:32:24 | stevenm | true |
05:32:35 | stevenm | it would be a real clusterf*ck trying to reverse engineer a SoC |
05:33:48 | ball | It would be helpful if people would release docs, but Apple don't seem to think that way any more. |
05:33:50 | stevenm | although if you could get your hands on the flash contents and disassemble it in some dark corner, you might be able to get some idea about the peripherals and regs |
05:34:09 | * | ball notes with interest that the Apple II came with full schematics |
05:34:29 | stevenm | ball, go figure.... but that also used to be made from discrete, through-hole (!) ICs |
05:34:39 | * | ball nods |
05:34:56 | ball | pth is easier to repair too ;-) |
05:35:01 | stevenm | through-hole ICs? today? in a computer? the only such parts are probably the PCI connectors |
05:35:10 | stevenm | oh and don't forget how some parts used to be SOCKETED |
05:35:27 | * | ball nods |
05:35:45 | ameyer | there's another out of focus chip that has an apple logo, an alphanumeric string that starts with CC and ends with -AC |
05:36:24 | stevenm | ball, although it is funny. i recently pulled apart an exercise machine that still had a socketed flash rom |
05:37:56 | ball | There are still times when an IC socket makes sense. |
05:38:09 | ball | Line drivers spring to mind |
05:38:15 | stevenm | this is true |
05:38:19 | ball | ROMs and other programmable chips |
05:38:32 | stevenm | my PIC programmer has all the drivers socketed. convenient |
05:38:54 | stevenm | ball, the flash from the exercise machine was interesting.. you could just read the thing out.. how nice of them to socket it. |
05:39:05 | stevenm | it contained funny strings like "Nosey, aren't you?" |
05:39:17 | ameyer | that can't be right |
05:39:34 | stevenm | that and "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana." |
05:39:41 | ameyer | googling some of the strings from that unknown chip suggests there may be a superh processor in there |
05:39:51 | ameyer | yet arm would suggest otherwise |
05:39:58 | stevenm | indeed |
05:40:07 | stevenm | have a peek at the FW? |
05:40:10 | ball | stevenm: Years ago I worked on a multiuser system that had "Bod was here" in the ROM |
05:40:16 | stevenm | haha |
05:40:31 | ball | ...had a great conversation with Bod when I eventually tracked him down years later. |
05:40:46 | | Quit Horscht ("We don't make mistakes, we just have happy little accidents") |
05:40:52 | stevenm | ball, wow.. nice. how did you manage that one? |
05:42:34 | ball | stevenm: http://www.bod.org/ ;-) |
05:42:48 | stevenm | haha, amazingly simple in the end, eh? |
05:42:53 | ball | Now I have to find Dave Staugas |
05:43:03 | stevenm | who is that? |
05:43:13 | ball | The 520 STFM ROM had "Dave Saugas loves Bea HaBlig" |
05:43:19 | ball | (Atari ST) |
05:43:35 | stevenm | nice. i gotta look in more of my ROMs |
05:43:42 | * | ball grins |
05:43:53 | scorche | folks...keep on topic please... |
05:43:58 | stevenm | the heart monitor daughterboard in that thing, which only had one output pin for the rate had a terminal server built in |
05:44:09 | stevenm | rom strings showed it.. |
05:44:35 | ball | Do iPods use DRAM or SRAM? |
05:45:00 | stevenm | ball, it's funny. my school is a ridiculous CE/CS place. They have a UV eraser in the lab... but cannot find a single freaking reader/writer ANYWHERE. So for now it's down to using a PIC to count the addresses and send data over uart :( |
05:45:50 | ameyer | so, upon further googling, it seems that chip in question is an internal apple thing |
05:45:54 | ball | stevenm: shift registers ftw. |
05:46:03 | stevenm | hahaha |
05:47:10 | ameyer | although, there could actually be a superh processor in there (video decoder?) |
05:48:25 | ball | a herd of ARM chips |
05:48:48 | stevenm | ameyer, grabbify the flash and see what pops out |
05:49:04 | ameyer | stevenm: that'd be great if I actually had one... |
05:49:25 | stevenm | ameyer, saay... does apple in some way encrypt their fw upgrades? |
05:49:39 | stevenm | cuz.. you know |
05:50:01 | ameyer | as I understand it, yes they do as of the 6th gen/2nd gen nano |
05:50:08 | stevenm | boo |
05:50:20 | ball | Another reason I'm glad I have an older iPod |
05:50:27 | ball | (Firewire is one) |
05:50:33 | stevenm | how is it encrypted? anyone know? |
05:51:11 | scorche | find out! ;) |
05:51:27 | stevenm | because the keys have to be there somewhere... i doubt each unit has its own rsa key.. it isn't exactly a quick operation |
05:51:33 | ball | stevenm: double rot-13 |
05:51:53 | scorche | ball: not helpful... |
05:52:02 | ball | scorche: sorry |
05:52:05 | stevenm | haha |
05:52:24 | scorche | stevenm: have you read the forum threads on these devices? |
05:52:41 | ameyer | they know how it's encrypted, apparently |
05:52:44 | stevenm | scorche, no... sadly all I have is an AJB |
05:53:10 | stevenm | i used to have a friend's iriver (hence midi codec) but he has it back now.. and no ipods here |
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05:54:15 | stevenm | ameyer, do you have a link handy? |
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05:54:53 | ameyer | stevenm: unfortunately not |
05:55:07 | stevenm | it would SUCK if that big chip had a little built in ROM with AES and a key... and it decrypted the flash on the fly |
05:55:21 | stevenm | it would be an effective solution but in the wrong manner :( |
05:55:42 | scorche | stevenm: i suggest reading the forum thred so you know what we know before discussing it ;) |
05:56:15 | stevenm | scorche, aah, okay. can you point me to a thread? |
05:56:33 | scorche | forums > new ports |
05:56:53 | stevenm | sorry, it's really been a long time |
05:57:42 | ameyer | ahh, rc4 |
05:58:01 | ameyer | they think |
05:58:24 | stevenm | .. doesn't that have a weakness? |
05:58:34 | stevenm | like, in the block cipher |
05:59:43 | Unhelpful | stevenm: rc4 is a stream cipher. it's weak if you use it with key+iv as a block cipher, and the blocks repeat, *and* you don't discard the first <some magic number> of the PRNG output |
06:00 |
06:00:29 | stevenm | Unhelpful, fair enough, thanks |
06:00:49 | Unhelpful | s/block repeats/iv repeats/ |
06:01:02 | stevenm | Still catching up on the thread... but they must have some way to get random access to the firmware... so maybe they went ECB with it? |
06:01:09 | Unhelpful | there are numerous practical ways to use RC4 that are secure |
06:01:22 | Unhelpful | ...to my knowledge, as not-a-crypto-expert |
06:02:10 | stevenm | I thought stream ciphers generated a keystream from some starting state, so wouldn't be a huge pain in the neck to get random-access to the plaintext? |
06:02:41 | stevenm | unless it decrypts it to RAM in one long operation, and then goes from there... or something |
06:02:58 | stevenm | maybe it even decrypts it as it flashes... |
06:03:02 | stevenm | sorry, still reading |
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06:11:08 | stevenm | reading this is just aggravating... encrypted firmware.. why... why do you CARE? |
06:11:26 | stevenm | but sleep time is now. arm class bright and freaking early. |
06:11:28 | stevenm | good night all |
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06:58:34 | vitja | I'm going to commit usb code, that doesn't work. That will be compiled only if you enable HAVE_USBSTACK, so this should be good point for testing and review |
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07:30:30 | shuttletyberian | is there a way to view all songs not in your current playlist? |
07:31:26 | shuttletyberian | or otherwise, automatically remove duplicate songs from a playlist? |
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07:32:11 | shuttletyberian | or otherwise, sort a playlist so it's easier to spot duplicate entries? |
07:41:53 | linuxstb | shuttletyberian: I think the "all tracks" view (I'm not sure of the exact name) in the database should give you an alphabetically sorted list of tracks. |
07:42:19 | shuttletyberian | i'm talking about dynamic playlists though |
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07:48:47 | linuxstb | shuttletyberian: Ah, you're talking about adding the same song to the playlist twice, rather than having duplicate copies of the song on your device? |
07:49:01 | shuttletyberian | yes, in short |
07:49:52 | linuxstb | Then no, I don't think there's anything that can help you. |
07:50:18 | shuttletyberian | doesn't seem like it would be too hard to implement? there's not even a sort function? |
07:53:35 | linuxstb | What's the problem you want to solve? Do you want Rockbox to not insert duplicates in the first place? |
07:54:14 | shuttletyberian | no. in the long run i want to be able to manage playlists easier |
07:55:32 | shuttletyberian | sorting alphabetically so you can remove duplicate entries would be a basic step towards that idea, but if you have a better idea i'm all ears |
07:56:09 | linuxstb | I'm not saying adding this feature to Rockbox isn't a good idea (a playlist editor plugin might be nice), but you can do it very easily on a PC - the .m3u files are simply text files. |
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08:12:51 | mod | hmm none of the problems or issues I have with my e200+rockbox are in any faqs or the buglist |
08:13:06 | mod | there seebs to be no way to list tracks in track number order |
08:13:08 | mod | er seems |
08:13:14 | mod | am I missing something? |
08:13:47 | mod | when charging, I can use the sandisk firmware, but rockbox's screen goes blank and I get buzzing over whatever audio is playing |
08:14:50 | scorche | you can use the database to list the tracks in that way, and rockbox doesnt currently charge on those devices |
08:15:03 | mod | i do not see it as an option |
08:16:25 | GodEater | that's because it's not an option, if the tracks contain track number metadata, that's what Rockbox sorts on. |
08:18:00 | mod | hrm |
08:18:02 | scorche | you can also play around a bit with creating your own tagnavi file: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DataBase |
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08:20:50 | mod | thanks |
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08:54:57 | amiconn | B4gder: do we have 3.0.1 builds for Archos now? |
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10:54:12 | vitja | gevaerts: can you take a look at usbmon log? |
10:54:55 | gevaerts | vitja: I can have a look during my lunch break (two hours from now) |
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10:59:05 | vitja | gevaerts: can I send it by mail? |
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12:57:32 | * | linuxstb wonders if Rockbox could have a USB mode where it unmounts the memory card and makes it available via UMS whilst still carrying on as normal using the internal storage only |
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13:14:33 | Soap | How does Rockbox determine the filetype of any particular music track? |
13:14:56 | Soap | Does it trust the extension, or does it actually look at the track to determine which codec to use? |
13:15:44 | Zagor | Soap: we trust the extension |
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13:20:58 | Zagor | oops. red build. |
13:21:26 | linuxstb | Soap: It does both in a way. It uses the extension to narrow down the codec types, and then confirms it when the metadata is parsed. So for example, a ".m4a" file is initially assumed to be AAC, but the get_metadata() function also checks to see if it's ALAC. |
13:22:11 | gevaerts | vitja: I don't immediately see anything wrong. I'll try to get it running tonight on one of my tcc devices (D2 or Logik DAX) |
13:23:04 | vitja | gevaerts: somewhy host call usb-reset |
13:23:09 | linuxstb | gevaerts: Can portalplayer USB run at the same time as the rest of Rockbox? Or does it claim things like IRAM and/or the audio buffer? |
13:23:45 | gevaerts | vitja: The problem is that bus resets are not very visible in these dumps |
13:25:04 | Soap | linuxstb, but a windows media file named .mp3 will not play even in that example, right? I simply ask because of the WMP "virus" which is running around and transcoding people's mp3 files. |
13:25:18 | gevaerts | linuxstb: yes and no. The USB stack can run perfectly well (i.e. you can use usb serial with logf to debug anything you like), but the storage driver grabs the audio buffer. It only needs 16 or 32k though, so if there's a serious need for that, this can easily be allocated for real |
13:26:07 | linuxstb | Soap: No - I'm not sure what the mp3 parser checks when parsing an mp3 file. i.e. whether it looks for a legal mpeg frame header and rejects otherwise. |
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13:26:31 | gevaerts | linuxstb: the storage driver should be able to handle "virtual hotplugging" with minor modifications to only expose one of the drives |
13:27:37 | linuxstb | gevaerts: It's just that I noticed my phone unmounts its microsd card and offers it over USB whilst continuing to function as normal and thought it might be nice for Rockbox to have the ability do the same. Although I'm not sure how useful that is... |
13:28:13 | gevaerts | It can be done, but I think that mtp is a better way to achieve that sort of flexibility |
13:28:21 | linuxstb | What about IRAM use? |
13:28:33 | linuxstb | Is that static, or does it use the codec/plugin IRAM? |
13:28:36 | gevaerts | All used IRAM is static |
13:30:12 | linuxstb | "live" mtp doesn't sound straightforward though - I'm sure lots of parts of Rockbox assumes that files won't magically disappear... |
13:31:51 | Llorean | linuxstb: Well, dircache probably won't like it, but Rockbox handles deleting files that are being played, or that are in a playlist, pretty well right? |
13:32:33 | gevaerts | Is live mtp very different from moving and copying files from the file browser? |
13:32:53 | linuxstb | I don't know. But live mtp would use dircache, so I don't think that would be an issue either. |
13:33:26 | linuxstb | So maybe I am underestimating Rockbox ;) |
13:34:02 | gevaerts | I think mtp can have lots of potential without needing low-level infrasructure work (except maybe for database integration), but unfortunately Mr Someone seems to be lazy lately |
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13:34:36 | linuxstb | Too busy with project euler... |
13:35:45 | gevaerts | MTP is several hundreds of pages of spec. We probably only need a small fraction of that, but someone has to find out which fraction first. And there don't seem to be open source device side MTP implementations around to borrow |
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13:36:56 | vitja | is there open-source mtp host code? |
13:37:21 | gevaerts | There's libmtp |
13:37:39 | vitja | does linux support MTP out of the box? |
13:38:01 | vitja | btw I see it in /usr/lib64/ |
13:38:06 | gevaerts | Many media player s/managers support mtp |
13:38:54 | gevaerts | There's also a fuse filesystem |
13:39:41 | gevaerts | libmtp probably doesn't support all the weird stuff that some players out there use, but we can easily make sure that we are compatible, and we won't drop mass storage |
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13:42:25 | vitja | sounds good |
13:43:03 | * | gevaerts gets back to work |
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13:48:38 | Zagor | here's an MTP device ("gadget") driver for linux: http://www.plxtech.com/products/net2000/software/selectiontool/RE061204-net2282-linux2.6.18.tgz |
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13:53:02 | Zagor | eh no, it isn't... that's just the usb controller driver |
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14:27:06 | kronflux | is there a wiki page for the SanDisk Sansa Fuze? |
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14:39:51 | linuxstb | kronflux: I don't think so - all the V2 pages should be linked to from here - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaV2 |
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15:05:56 | Llorean | linuxstb: The "select alternates screens" patch also nearly mandates that we further increase the WPS buffer. If we're giving them multiple screens, the image buffer moves from "bumping a very small number of WPSes on the head" to probably getting in the way of every single multi-screen one. |
15:07:25 | linuxstb | Llorean: Again, it's a matter of compromise. If multi-view WPSs turn out to be worthwhile (I'm waiting to see what theme authors come up with), then we increase it slightly. But I can imagine different views sharing a lot of images, so it hopefully won't mean "2 screens = double the space requirement" |
15:08:25 | Llorean | linuxstb: I'm expecting more like, 3 screens, 50% more space requirement. |
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15:10:17 | linuxstb | I honestly don't know - which is why I think we should see what theme designers come up with before rejecting the idea. |
15:14:07 | Llorean | I just.. I know we're all for telling users to "read the manual", but this is introducing behaviour that will change "beneath their feet" as it were. |
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15:14:47 | Llorean | What *was* a purely cosmetic feature, and has been for years for many, many people, becomes a feature where the behaviour of their player can change based on what they think is merely changing how it looks. |
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16:31:20 | pixelma | linuxstb: the Ondio has a shortcut to the filebrowser from the WPS... |
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16:53:32 | linuxstb | pixelma: I know. But I thought the problem was that there isn't a shortcut to the main menu? |
16:54:07 | linuxstb | Which means you can't afford to lose the browser shortcut? |
16:56:06 | pixelma | no, you could still enter the main menu via the WPS context menu. Currently the file browser shortcut allows you a second way though |
16:57:05 | SmallR2002 | i wonder why sandisk are so interested in us not managing to put new firmware on their sansa v2 stuff |
16:58:33 | Zagor | SmallR2002: they're not. they're simply not interested in helping. |
16:58:59 | linuxstb | pixelma: Ah, OK. I've modified my post... |
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16:59:26 | Zagor | SmallR2002: apple, on the other hand, are very intent on not letting people run non-apple firmware on their players |
16:59:33 | linuxstb | SmallR2002: They've done nothing to prevent us though - i.e. they've been relatively easy to hack. |
16:59:42 | SmallR2002 | hmmm |
16:59:43 | SmallR2002 | ok |
16:59:47 | SmallR2002 | i believe you :P |
16:59:52 | SmallR2002 | i was just reading the forum thread |
16:59:54 | linuxstb | It's all relative ;) |
17:00 |
17:00:07 | SmallR2002 | began to feel that there were quite a few checksums and such |
17:00:37 | linuxstb | Yes, but they are straightforward. There's no encryption, which is what makes it "relatively easy". |
17:00:41 | SmallR2002 | i know apple were helpful at first and then became unhelpful |
17:00:48 | linuxstb | They were? |
17:01:13 | SmallR2002 | someone said they weren't unhelpful about the first bootloaders and puting linux on the first ipods |
17:01:24 | Zagor | apple were never helpful. they were just not encrypted at first. |
17:02:02 | SmallR2002 | must be urban myth :) |
17:02:17 | Zagor | sandisk is actually the ones who have been most helpful of all companies. but they suddenly stopped. |
17:03:33 | linuxstb | But even that help was just in the shape of a few free devices - nothing useful like technical info or details of their firmware encryption. |
17:04:13 | Zagor | right. they said they would provide some technical support too, but that came to nothing |
17:05:39 | Zagor | at least the talked to us. for a while :-) |
17:05:41 | Zagor | they |
17:06:04 | SmallR2002 | i never understand why these guys don't see stuff like rockbox as a good alternative market |
17:07:37 | Zagor | there has been much speculation on that topic, yes |
17:07:48 | SmallR2002 | i mean, surely, help the alternatives along and you make more sales |
17:08:02 | Llorean | SmallR2002: You also increase your support costs for people who take our tools and do stupid things with them. |
17:08:13 | SmallR2002 | true |
17:08:29 | SmallR2002 | but, surely, that's what specific warranties are for :p |
17:08:38 | Llorean | SmallR2002: You assume people are truthful. |
17:08:45 | Zagor | also one could argue that people who run rockbox are less likely to be looking for a new player |
17:08:52 | SmallR2002 | i do, that has been a bad thing before |
17:09:16 | SmallR2002 | i am, i know of two other people who are |
17:09:22 | SmallR2002 | not quite an army, but working on it |
17:10:33 | Zagor | gotta go. saving another big id3 restructure commit for tomorrow. |
17:10:46 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
17:11:04 | Llorean | Rockbox does certainly encourage a "make your MP3 player last forever" mindset rather than a "buy a new one to get new features" mindset. |
17:11:18 | SmallR2002 | hmmm |
17:12:04 | SmallR2002 | but 99% of the time you can't get past space, processor, ram and screen :p |
17:12:31 | SmallR2002 | 1% of the time you might be able to upgrade the internal storage |
17:12:54 | petur | SmallR2002: wrong :) |
17:13:02 | SmallR2002 | really? |
17:13:12 | Llorean | Take the e200 for example though. We upgraded "space" an awful lot by changing the limit of SD card size it could support from 2GB to 32GB (potentially up to a lot more) |
17:13:25 | * | petur installed a 80GB disk in his h340, and a CF card in his h320 :) |
17:13:47 | SmallR2002 | more than 1% then :P |
17:13:52 | LambdaCalculus37 | petur: How's everything working? |
17:13:59 | petur | fine... |
17:14:00 | SmallR2002 | Llorean, does that follow for the e280R? |
17:14:04 | Llorean | yes. |
17:14:08 | SmallR2002 | yay :) |
17:14:17 | SmallR2002 | i'll go and buy a larger microsd card |
17:14:25 | SmallR2002 | presuming it just takes standard sdhc? |
17:14:45 | Llorean | MicroSDHC, but yes. |
17:14:49 | linuxstb | SmallR2002: Remember you'll need a USB adapter though - Rockbox doesn't have USB support yet, and the original firmware won't like it. |
17:14:51 | petur | LambdaCalculus37: apart from my h380 bootloader problem and my dead h120 still waiting for a CF upgrade if/when Linus fixes it |
17:14:58 | Lars_G | Llorean: Yay I can revitalize my Sansa then! |
17:15:17 | Lars_G | Llorean: If I find a solution for podcasts (part is desktop side, part is rockbox side) I can even sell and drop my iPod! |
17:15:30 | SmallR2002 | my box has a standard sd/sdhc slot in the front |
17:16:29 | Lars_G | Llorean: And the rockbox part I could make a patch for myself and all. it's a lot of work but I think I can do it. |
17:16:29 | SmallR2002 | Lars_G, i would advise selling before dropping, dropped kit doesn't sell very well ;) |
17:16:56 | LambdaCalculus37 | petur: Are the new bootloader versions for the H100 and H300 still giving you guys problems? |
17:17:01 | Lars_G | SmallR2002: Only if they notice :P lol. And, I use exclusively flash based players, just for that reason (I'm a dropaphobe) |
17:17:22 | petur | LambdaCalculus37: I only know of the h300 having an issue |
17:17:50 | petur | the h100 just needs a new bootloader release |
17:17:56 | SmallR2002 | Lars_G, it's way to easy to drop stuff... bring on the anti-gravity |
17:18:12 | Lars_G | How battery expensive are atomic (small) writes to flash on a e260? anyone knows? |
17:18:44 | LambdaCalculus37 | petur: Ahh, I though both still had issues. |
17:18:53 | Lars_G | My podcast solution would require writting one small commit to flash about every 5 seconds. |
17:19:17 | linuxstb | Lars_G: What is your podcast solution? |
17:19:19 | Llorean | Lars_G: Why? |
17:19:28 | * | LambdaCalculus37 brings out the remains of his Dell Digital Jukebox... namely, the mainboard |
17:19:56 | Lars_G | My trouble is remembering possitions of half played podcasts. And using bookmarks is not a perfect solution yet. |
17:20:22 | Llorean | Lars_G: What would your solution give, that bookmarks doesn't? |
17:20:25 | Lars_G | So I'm thinking on identifying (with some desktop side work) podcasts as such via ID3, and every 5 or 8 seconds storing the current listening position to an id3 field. |
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17:21:54 | Lars_G | Llorean: A) Support of saving positions of enqueued podcasts. B) Information is inherent to the mp3 file itself, thus I wouldn't need to find bookmarks instead of the podcast files and i'd be able to use the database for this. C) Eliminating the podcast during sync would eliminate the possition info as well, thus not creatting a litter of bookmarks left behind old episodes. |
17:22:56 | Llorean | Lars_G: So you're talking about actually writing TO the podcast during playback? |
17:23:42 | Lars_G | Llorean: Aye, the disk version, it's id3 header on flash rather than the data buffered on ram. |
17:23:58 | SmallR2002 | stupid question but... |
17:24:10 | Llorean | Lars_G: Wouldn't it make sense just to write when you stop playback, rather than every 5 seconds? |
17:24:11 | SmallR2002 | how do i navigate a microsd card from the sansa with rockbox? |
17:24:56 | Lars_G | Llorean: It would work, but only if I can intercept (via irq) the shutdown sequence from a timeout shutdown, so that I can also snapshot the possition if I paused the player and forgot it. |
17:25:05 | LambdaCalculus37 | SmallR2002: In Files, you'll see a <microSD1> shortcut. |
17:25:22 | SmallR2002 | i don't :/ |
17:25:22 | Lars_G | Llorean: Also i'd have to write if I change tracks, as I sometimes want to skip a podcast to another one in my queue and then return to where I left... but it would work. |
17:25:48 | Lars_G | SmallR2002: It should be in the root dir. Make sure the card is properly inserted. In mine it took a few tries to get it in right at first |
17:26:18 | SmallR2002 | pretty sure the card's in right |
17:26:24 | SmallR2002 | maybe windows mobile trashed it... |
17:26:57 | SmallR2002 | hmmm, it does generate some screen event in the top right hand corner |
17:27:17 | Lars_G | Llorean: The problem I see there is, that I am not very intimate with rockbox arch but correct me if I'm wrong... saving position while pausing, stopping, or changing tracks is something the player would have to initiate. But catching a shutdown or a timeout shutdown is something the kernel would do, and I am not sure if the player, or the programs in the device can catch that irq from the kernel and act upon it. |
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17:31:51 | linuxstb | Doesn't the LastFM/Scrobbler code do something similar to that? |
17:33:21 | Lars_G | Llorean: So, I know there are a miriad of valid reasons why something like what I want hasn't been done in rockbox. but I personally need it more than the pitfalls. do you think it can be made to work? |
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19:41:29 | LambdaCalculus37 | Shouldn't the front page also mention the 4th generation nano as a model Rockbox doesn't work on? |
19:41:56 | Llorean | LambdaCalculus37: I'd prefer if it instead said "No other iPods are supported" |
19:42:04 | domonoky | just add a "and newer ipods" |
19:42:19 | Llorean | We shouldn't have to update it every single time Apple decides it wants a new coat of paint on the same old stuff. |
19:42:49 | gevaerts | They only do that in september though, so that could be done with a cronjob |
19:43:14 | LambdaCalculus37 | Llorean: Tell Apple to stop making new iPod models, then. ;) |
19:43:34 | * | gevaerts predicts that the next ipod nano will be called "5th generation" |
19:44:05 | LambdaCalculus37 | gevaerts: Ahh, that'll *really* get everyone confused as all get-up. |
19:44:24 | gevaerts | LambdaCalculus37: after that there will be the nano classic of course :) |
19:45:02 | domonoky | how about a mini touch :-) |
19:45:43 | domonoky | plenty variations possible, and they probably will choose the most iritating one :-) |
19:45:54 | LambdaCalculus37 | Llorean: In all seriousness though, who usually handles site updates? |
19:46:22 | * | linuxstb looks towards Sweden |
19:46:47 | Bagder | the site is in svn |
19:46:54 | Bagder | we just need to do the 'svn update' |
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19:47:22 | amiconn | Bagder: Where can I find your script, and what adjustments do I need in order to build only certain targets? |
19:47:46 | Bagder | I mean to commit all my release scripts tonight |
19:48:48 | linuxstb | Bagder: So are you happy for other committers to change the website? It seems a bit more sensitive/in-need-of-moderation than Rockbox itself. |
19:49:37 | Bagder | I'm fine with that yes |
19:49:59 | Bagder | bbl |
19:50:28 | Llorean | linuxstb: I thought he said the website won't be changed until he has the server svn update on his end, anyway |
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19:50:42 | Llorean | So it's not immediately "live" |
19:51:46 | amiconn | linuxstb: I am wondering about ipod Color/Photo batteries. ipodbatteryfaq.com says it's 700mAh (for all sub-models), but mine actually has a 900mAh battery (saw that when replacing the hdd) |
19:52:35 | linuxstb | amiconn: I've no idea, I've never managed to open mine (I don't own any appropriate pieces of plastic, and have not really had a need to) |
19:52:55 | * | amiconn just used a small flat-head screwdriver |
19:53:01 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: iFixit sells good iPod opening tools. |
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19:53:25 | amiconn | No real need for a special tool (if you don't mind the risk of *small* scratches) |
19:53:27 | LambdaCalculus37 | My iPod color battery is also a 900mAh battery. |
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19:54:38 | amiconn | I wonder whether this is an original battery (i.e. apple put higher capacity batteries in some of them), whether ipodbatteryfaq.com is wrong regarding the specs, or whether mine is an upgraded one |
19:54:41 | LambdaCalculus37 | linuxstb: Actually, IIRC the original iPod color/Photo battery is 650mAh (from what I remember reading on it when I pulled out the old one). |
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20:12:37 | SmallR2002 | brilliant, my copy of mr bean plays :) |
20:13:01 | SmallR2002 | just got to ffmpeg it into 4:3 |
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20:34:50 | BigBambi | gevaerts: I've been thinking (slightly prematurely I know) about MM3 buttons - http://pastebin.ca/1227071 Any thoughts? (anyone else too) |
20:36:12 | gevaerts | BigBambi: what's select? tap the touchstrip? |
20:36:19 | BigBambi | yes, in the centre |
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20:37:12 | BigBambi | I'm sure you've spotted, but the lists are function - button |
20:37:36 | gevaerts | I miss seeking |
20:37:58 | BigBambi | select - switch scroll pad function and vol up/down or forward/back in track - scroll |
20:38:11 | amiconn | 3 buttons shouldn't be difficult... |
20:38:13 | BigBambi | I just didn't call it seeking (I couldn't think of the word) :) |
20:38:15 | amiconn | Err, 6 |
20:38:30 | gevaerts | ah, ok. Not very friendly though |
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20:38:38 | BigBambi | gevaerts: I agree |
20:38:47 | BigBambi | amiconn: The main problem is a complete lack of left and right |
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20:39:05 | BigBambi | amiconn: The only one I struggled with was track skipping and seeking in the WPS |
20:39:36 | amiconn | hmm |
20:39:46 | amiconn | I'd drop the quickscreen if you're short on buttons |
20:39:51 | gevaerts | If you use more fingers, you could do arrows-scroll. Also not very friendly |
20:39:56 | amiconn | The Ondio has 6 buttons too, and no quickscreen |
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20:40:28 | gevaerts | amiconn: the problem is that it's not actually 6 buttons. There are three real buttons and a touchstrip |
20:40:31 | BigBambi | amiconn: Sure, that is doable - but then how would you habdle the WPS? We have three butoons, plus a scroll pad up and down (that can have a 'soft' fourth button in the centre |
20:40:37 | amiconn | The quickscreen is a convenience feature, but it loses its purpose if the button needed for entering it is taken away from a more important function |
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20:41:09 | * | gevaerts waits for JdGordon to want a wps mode button :) |
20:41:21 | BigBambi | I think it is more useful than changing WPS screen |
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20:41:47 | BigBambi | I can safely predict that that is one function we won't have on the MM3 :) |
20:42:43 | amiconn | What about introducing a direction mode? |
20:43:08 | BigBambi | As in press a button to cycle the scroll pad through volume, seek and skip? |
20:43:09 | amiconn | I.e. use 'Select' or short 'M' to switch direction for seeking and skipping |
20:43:16 | fml | Hello. Why don't we merge two recording settings: channels (mono/stereo) and mono (L/R/L+R)? Then we had just one setting with four possible values instead of two settings. It would be more logical as well IMHO. |
20:43:24 | amiconn | Then Arrow would skip or seek into that direction |
20:43:51 | gevaerts | That could also work. |
20:44:02 | BigBambi | yep |
20:44:03 | * | gevaerts gives up on no-feedback operation |
20:44:17 | amiconn | The advantage would be that this way even dirskip would work (short-long Arrow) |
20:44:30 | BigBambi | So select switches between forward and backward, then arrow skips and hold arrow seeks |
20:44:36 | gevaerts | At least that way no functions change, only direction |
20:44:37 | BigBambi | Yes, that seems sensible |
20:44:43 | amiconn | yep |
20:44:59 | gevaerts | We do need a wps tag then to indicate current direction |
20:45:00 | amiconn | There should be a status bar icon that indicates the current direction |
20:45:06 | amiconn | (+ wps tag) |
20:45:11 | BigBambi | or in fact, both |
20:46:13 | * | amiconn is still used to wps'es using the standard status bar, hence often forgets about those tags duplicating functionality |
20:46:32 | BigBambi | In which case what do you think to putting the switch direction on long M and dropping the quickscreen, and keeping select to be go to browser/database? |
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20:47:33 | amiconn | Yes, something like that. Perhaps it would be better to switch the meaning of short and long M |
20:47:57 | BigBambi | short changes direction and long to menu - yes, probably more convenient |
20:48:28 | BigBambi | You want to seek/skip much more often than go to the menu |
20:48:42 | gevaerts | That depends on usage I think |
20:49:15 | BigBambi | sure, but I'm just going on what I do and assuming therefore so does everyone else :) |
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20:50:18 | gevaerts | I think we do want consistency though. Long M for menu would then mean Long M for menu everywhere |
20:50:26 | BigBambi | true |
20:50:46 | BigBambi | OK, I'll leave it as is for now |
20:51:00 | gevaerts | OK. Now do the doom button map :) |
20:51:21 | BigBambi | I'm going to get to plugins in a bit :) |
20:51:54 | gevaerts | The MM3 is a great player to attack PLA with :) |
20:51:58 | pixelma | I guess that would be quite convenient, long "mode" for calling the menu on the Ondio feels nice - leaves short for resume |
20:52:28 | BigBambi | pixelma: We have a play button for resume (as I have done it at the moment) |
20:53:21 | BigBambi | pixelma: Current effort: http://pastebin.ca/1227095 |
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20:54:55 | pixelma | ok |
20:55:02 | BigBambi | pixelma: Any thoughts? |
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20:55:44 | BigBambi | Where I say arrows by the way, it is one button, not arrow keys |
20:55:45 | amiconn | BigBambi: I suggested short M for direction switch and long M for menu because the direction switch is something that's more likely to be needed fast (if used) |
20:55:46 | markun | gevaerts: PLA? |
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20:55:58 | LambdaCalculus37 | mcuelenaere: Here? |
20:56:09 | gevaerts | markun: PluginLib Actions |
20:56:10 | | Quit aarcane_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
20:56:15 | amiconn | Going to the menu calls another screen anyway, hence doesn't need to be that fast |
20:56:21 | mcuelenaere | LambdaCalculus37: yes |
20:56:34 | BigBambi | amiconn: I think I agree that it makes more sense that way round, but as gevaerts said we ought to be consistent and have long M be menu everywhere then |
20:56:44 | | Quit gregzx (Nick collision from services.) |
20:56:48 | amiconn | yep |
20:56:48 | | Nick gregzx_ is now known as gregzx (n=chatzill@dtq117.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
20:57:09 | gevaerts | The same argument also holds everywhere |
20:57:31 | BigBambi | amiconn: Do you not think that then is a little counter intuitive to say have short M quick screen and have to hold M to get the actual menu? |
20:57:46 | BigBambi | In lists that is |
20:57:58 | amiconn | I'd drop the quickscreen, as I already said |
20:58:22 | BigBambi | And leave short M unused, or just have menu on M in general in lists? |
20:58:29 | amiconn | (completely) |
20:58:37 | LambdaCalculus37 | mcuelenaere: Question... on the mainboard for the Dell DJ, there's a Creative-labelled chip on what appears to be a BGA connection; numbers on it read CA206-IAG 4A-39AF9WX. According to the information I have, this is a sound processor. Anything like this on the ZVM? |
20:58:55 | BigBambi | I'm quite happy with losing the quickscreen incidently |
20:58:59 | LambdaCalculus37 | I'm wondering because I don't see anything that looks like a TMS320 DSP on the mainboard anywhere. |
20:59:21 | amiconn | In case of the M3, it seems it's better to leave the menu on short M. Then I'm undecided what's better in the wps: consistency or quick operation |
20:59:23 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
20:59:28 | mcuelenaere | LambdaCalculus37: if I'm not mistaken, the ARM and the DSP are on the same chip |
20:59:30 | mcuelenaere | hence SoC |
20:59:30 | | Quit fml ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
20:59:31 | amiconn | I guess this needs testing on the actual device |
20:59:38 | BigBambi | amiconn: I agree |
20:59:45 | mcuelenaere | but I can't tell for the Dell DJ |
20:59:52 | gevaerts | We'll test as soon as we have more than an lcd driver :) |
21:00 |
21:00:07 | BigBambi | Personally, I'm erring towards consistency, but I don't really know |
21:00:19 | mcuelenaere | LambdaCalculus37: aren't there any scans available? |
21:00:31 | BigBambi | gevaerts: scrollpad/buttons seem to be OK :) |
21:00:35 | amiconn | Speaking about consistency, I should really prepare that patch for iaudio M5/X5 remote buttons (making them consistent with M3) |
21:01:00 | LambdaCalculus37 | mcuelenaere: Yes, I made a scan and posted it on the DellDJPort page, albeit a crappy-looking scan. |
21:01:25 | BigBambi | gevaerts: Any thoughts for a better name for the arrows button that arrows? Arrows is confusing - it suggests directional buttons |
21:01:36 | LambdaCalculus37 | mcuelenaere: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/viewfile/Main/DellDJPort?rev=1;filename=DellDJ-mainboard-scan.jpg |
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21:02:02 | amiconn | BigBambi: Does the MM3 have recording? |
21:02:08 | LambdaCalculus37 | There's a Samsung chip to the left of the hard drive connector on the bottom center; the Creative chip is just above the Samsung chip. |
21:02:11 | BigBambi | amiconn: No |
21:02:16 | BigBambi | amiconn: No radio either |
21:02:23 | amiconn | RTC? |
21:02:27 | BigBambi | er |
21:02:29 | * | BigBambi checks |
21:03:01 | BigBambi | ooos |
21:03:05 | BigBambi | ooops even |
21:03:12 | BigBambi | It has both recording and FM radio! |
21:03:40 | BigBambi | and RTC |
21:03:52 | gevaerts | It has all buttons on the front, so amiconn should like it ;) |
21:04:01 | amiconn | So there are some more screens for button mapping |
21:04:02 | BigBambi | Looks like I had better do the radio and recording screens next :) |
21:04:08 | amiconn | gevaerts: Bah, but touchy things |
21:04:17 | amiconn | BigBambi: Plus "Set time and date" |
21:04:22 | BigBambi | yes |
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21:09:05 | mcuelenaere | LambdaCalculus37: do you know where the OP got the TMS320 reference from? |
21:10:16 | mcuelenaere | + I think zook disassembled the Dell's DJ's firmware as valid TMS320 DSP instructions |
21:10:51 | LambdaCalculus37 | mcuelenaere: This was a while back; I had found the information on a Dell DJ forum page. |
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21:12:21 | fml | petur (for the log): now I see why the two recording settings can't be merged (see my post above). Mono mode is only implemented for SW_CODEC. But when it gets implemented for all platforms I think they should be merged. |
21:13:23 | fml | Hmm... Actually, they can also be merged now. For not-SW_CODEC, only mono L would be available (with some #if's) |
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21:20:29 | * | LambdaCalculus37 may have to make a rewrite of the DellDJPort page |
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21:24:18 | | Quit sarixe ("Ex-Chat") |
21:27:13 | | Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
21:32:02 | BigBambi | gevaerts / amiconn: latest http://pastebin.ca/1227133 |
21:35:58 | * | gevaerts gets the cowon d2 to enumerate on the usb bus, but mass storage doesn't work yet |
21:36:30 | | Quit nplus (Remote closed the connection) |
21:38:02 | gevaerts | BigBambi: I'm actually wondering if the Arrow button wouldn't be better as Menu |
21:39:13 | BigBambi | Could well be - I chose M for two reasons - one M (M)enu, and secondly the Of uses it as menu. I know we don't pay any attention to them, but if we have to make a decision between two buttons we might as well not change it unless there is a good reason |
21:39:17 | * | gevaerts decides to take his d2 to work tomorrow, so he can actually trace what happens without having to rely on this impractical software tracing |
21:40:01 | linuxstb | gevaerts: Have you tried the DAX? |
21:40:26 | BigBambi | However, I don't really care if it is Arrow Button or M :) |
21:43:30 | gevaerts | linuxstb: trying now. That actually seems to even work |
21:44:00 | gevaerts | At least until it resets the bus |
21:46:02 | * | gevaerts concentrates on the DAX for now |
21:46:05 | amiconn | fml: Right now, HWCODEC does mono-L+R, not mono-L |
21:46:23 | amiconn | Mono-L is possible to implement for HWCODEC, mono-R is impossible |
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21:49:28 | * | shotofadds wonders what gevaerts is planning to do with TCC USB other than logf? |
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21:50:14 | linuxstb | shotofadds: Dump the raw nand pages? |
21:51:30 | shotofadds | linuxstb: of course. although I think I'm not far off a breakthrough in that area now anyway ;) |
21:52:17 | linuxstb | shotofadds: Good news. Do you think write access is feasible now, or am I getting too optimistic? |
21:53:35 | fml | amiconn: ok, the HWCODEC would only offer Mono L+R. But do you agree that it would be sensible to merge the settings? Because if you choose mono, you'd still better go to the other setting to check for the mono mode. |
21:54:32 | amiconn | I think so, although I don't really use recording. |
21:54:34 | gevaerts | shotofadds: I don't actually care about TCC usb, but it's the same controller as the meizus ;) |
21:54:44 | Llorean | fml: I think it'd make sense to merge settings. |
21:54:59 | amiconn | It also saves a setting, which is a good thing |
21:55:25 | Llorean | And it makes it less likely that someone's going to pick "Mono", not notice to change the other setting, and get an unwanted recording. |
21:55:40 | shotofadds | linuxstb: I don't see why not, in the long term. It'd require an awful lot more understanding than we currently have, though. It's possibly not the impenetrable fortress I once thought it might be... |
21:56:16 | shotofadds | gevaerts: bah, commonality is boring ;) |
21:56:33 | linuxstb | Yes, we need more esoteric targets... |
21:56:56 | amiconn | Isn't the clip esoteric enough, with its 320KB RAM? |
21:57:11 | | Quit jhulst (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
21:57:18 | * | amiconn is really curious how this port will work out |
21:57:27 | fml | Llorean: that was also my main concern. |
21:57:39 | shotofadds | gevaerts: if you had a play with your d2 today, did you notice if the LCD "missing lines" bug was fixed? |
21:58:01 | fml | And one setting less as a bonus. |
21:58:18 | Llorean | fml: A similar setting is the "Stereo Width" setting, since you have to set the Channels setting to "Custom" rather than intuitively assuming that you can safely leave it as "Stereo" |
21:58:21 | gevaerts | shotofadds: I'm just uploading with tcctool now. I didn't feel like fighting the nand unreliability |
21:58:37 | Llorean | Though you don't reduce the number of settings, you remove an option within one it's not obvious you need to change to. |
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21:59:08 | gevaerts | amiconn: I suspect that for the clip we may need to move a lot of "core" stuff to a plugin architecture |
21:59:13 | linuxstb | amiconn: I think the only way would be to move core code into plugins (but special "system plugins"). As it's flashed-based, the delay entering/leaving screens should be minimal. This in fact could be a good way to make the apps/ code more modular and reduce the maze of inter-dependencies. |
21:59:30 | * | gevaerts thinks of filebrowser, settings, database update, wps, ... |
22:00 |
22:00:08 | amiconn | I think that using thumb code for everything that's not performance critical will already help a lot |
22:00:27 | shotofadds | linuxstb: that kind of architecture would benefit plugins like pictureflow too, if you care about such things |
22:00:50 | fml | Llorean: with stereo width this wouldn't work since there you have very many values. Hence a separate setting is needed. Mono has few values. But it it would be possible, I'd also merge the settings for the stereo width. |
22:00:58 | shotofadds | (ie. currently it can't be used to select a track for playback) |
22:00:58 | amiconn | Then we need to teach our codecs how to use less ram (e.g. get rid of that malloc stuff) |
22:01:27 | linuxstb | I actually quite like the clip - it's a solid little player, and the buttons are nice. Shame there is no memory expansion. |
22:01:51 | fml | Llorean: Actually I think that the setting "Custom" is not needed at all. Why not have just "Stereo" and apply the width then (100% by default)? |
22:01:53 | Llorean | fml: You misunderstood. |
22:02:07 | Llorean | fml: I was saying "Custom" should be removed, and "Stereo" should always apply the "Width" value. |
22:02:17 | amiconn | Llorean: I disagree |
22:02:22 | Llorean | amiconn: why? |
22:02:37 | mcuelenaere | gevaerts: currently, Rockbox only support Bulk endpoints, right? |
22:02:43 | Llorean | Many users will surely go to Width, change it, and not realize they need to ever go to "Channels" |
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22:02:56 | gevaerts | mcuelenaere: yes. Interrupt should be easy though (as it's essentially the same) |
22:03:00 | * | shotofadds still doesn't understand the logic behind "Custom" |
22:03:06 | mcuelenaere | any chance the other ones will get used later? |
22:03:10 | * | linuxstb has a feeling of deja-vu about the "channels" setting discussion and greps the logs |
22:03:13 | fml | Llorean: then I understood you better than you thought. Same opinion as yours. I was confused by the "Custom" setting first. |
22:03:17 | gevaerts | How much RAM does the DAX have? |
22:03:23 | linuxstb | 2MB |
22:03:25 | mcuelenaere | ie should I implement some room in the USB design for the Ingenic targets? |
22:03:27 | amiconn | It's more convenient to have both 'stereo' and 'custon'. Then you can set your preferred custom width and switch between that (for headphones) and pure stereo (for line-out) changing just one option |
22:03:32 | Llorean | linuxstb: I've brought it up before. |
22:03:39 | Llorean | amiconn: Or using .cfg files. |
22:03:53 | Llorean | I think "make it less confusing for users" is good in this case. |
22:04:04 | fml | Llorean: I'm with you here as well! |
22:04:13 | shotofadds | +1 |
22:05:11 | Llorean | The first time I tried using it, I thought stereo width was broken because I was changing it and nothing happened. Had to go check the manual which then sent me back to a neighboring option for something that really *could* be intuitive. |
22:05:11 | amiconn | Llorean: Your method would also be confusing depending on the actual width. Stereo with width = 0 would be equal to Mono (which it actually is, hence calling it 'Custom' is more appropriate, imo) |
22:05:21 | | Quit mf0102 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
22:06:07 | Llorean | amiconn: So we remove the 0 option, since it's a duplication of mono anyway... |
22:06:08 | shotofadds | Llorean: I just thought it was broken and wasn't that interested in the setting to go consulting the manual. I'd guess a rather large proportion of users might do the same. |
22:06:15 | * | bluebrother wonders if anyone else but him got contacted off-list in that accessibility thread |
22:06:56 | fml | amiconn: "stereo" just means that you have two distinct channels. And we can disable 0 as the width to always have it as a true stereo! |
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22:07:32 | amiconn | hmmmmmmmm |
22:07:44 | fml | Aha!!! |
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22:13:18 | gevaerts | The remaining tcc usb issue is not related to ata |
22:14:04 | * | gevaerts looks again |
22:17:24 | pixelma | I also wondered first why stereo width wasn't working but I could ask someone... |
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22:19:20 | fml | When such experts were confused by the setting then it's a clear sign that it should be removed. IMHO |
22:20:08 | pixelma | well at that time I was a beginner |
22:22:06 | pixelma | but I agree that it's not very intuitive |
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22:24:31 | johwil | markun: R U there? |
22:25:14 | | Quit jeffdameth (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
22:25:22 | fml | pixelma: I'd even say: it is veru unintuitive |
22:25:25 | Llorean | johwil: Please read the channel guidelines linked in the topic. |
22:25:44 | johwil | i will |
22:25:56 | johwil | sry :) |
22:26:10 | Llorean | You just broke them again, so I really encourage you to go ahead with that reading. |
22:26:11 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Connection timed out) |
22:26:22 | * | gevaerts wonders why he suddenly can't run his code on the DAX anymore |
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22:28:22 | mcuelenaere | gevaerts: what's the status in void usb_core_transfer_complete(int endpoint, int dir, int status,int length); for? |
22:28:45 | bertrik | linuxstb, I'm impressed by the stuff done so far on the sansa v2 dual bootloader and the clip display and button readout |
22:29:40 | gevaerts | mcuelenaere: if it's non-zero something went wrong |
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22:29:51 | mcuelenaere | ok |
22:31:13 | linuxstb | bertrik: Yes, some excellent reverse-engineering seems to be going on... |
22:31:24 | johwil | does anyone know of a working ttf2fnt converter? |
22:31:46 | bertrik | I'm quite confident that we'll figure out the SD/MMC interface too since funman already seems to be able to get at least a reply to some commands. Also it looks like the audio control / pmu part will be relatively easy to port because it looks very similar to the as3514 (once we get i2c working). |
22:31:52 | gevaerts | The meaning of the error values probably needs to be better defined. Currently I use the ARC transfer status directly. Nothing actually looks at the exact value though |
22:32:44 | bertrik | I'm not so sure what to work on myself. And I have some doubts if we'll be able to fit rockbox in the rather small amount of RAM |
22:32:44 | Llorean | johwil: I believe you'll need to go ttf2bdf then use Rockbox's BDF converter. |
22:34:29 | mcuelenaere | gevaerts (minor correction): shouldn't ARCOTG_DRV_H in usb-drv.h get renamed? |
22:34:44 | linuxstb | bertrik: Do you want to do low-level hardware stuff, or higher-level things? |
22:35:04 | gevaerts | mcuelenaere: yes |
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22:36:24 | mcuelenaere | gevaerts: does dir=0x80 in void usb_core_transfer_complete(int endpoint, int dir, int status, int length); mean USB_DIR_IN or should it be another value for that? |
22:36:31 | bertrik | linuxstb, low-level |
22:36:33 | gevaerts | vitja: (logs) The host resets the usb device because it doesn't get a reply to a SCSI READ command |
22:37:52 | gevaerts | mcuelenaere: It does mean USB_DIR_IN. That dir argument should probably go, as it should already be clear from ep |
22:38:12 | mcuelenaere | ok, so currently I should set endpoint | USB_DIR_IN & int dir? |
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22:38:26 | gevaerts | yes |
22:40:16 | linuxstb | bertrik: And you've just got a Clip? |
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22:44:49 | Hillshum | what do i do after building the output of tools/configure for e200v2 bootloader on git? |
22:45:48 | linuxstb | I think there are instructions in the Makefile in the version of mkamsboot in git. If you're building a bootloader from git, you need to use the git mkamsboot. |
22:46:18 | saratoga | has anyone looked at how much space codecs actually use? |
22:46:52 | linuxstb | saratoga: I don't think so, but someone definitely should. |
22:47:23 | Llorean | saratoga: Bug report on the tracker that might interest you. |
22:47:26 | bertrik | linuxstb, yes I have a clip and I've been able to build and install the git bootloader with some test code |
22:47:28 | Llorean | saratoga: Non-linear response for MP3 and AAC recently |
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22:48:04 | johwil | Llorean: Thank you, but i belive markun was working on a ttf2fnt converter a few years ago. Hence my question. |
22:48:05 | linuxstb | bertrik: I was just thinking that the other V2 targets seem to be in need of developers - there are lots of LCD drivers to write... |
22:48:37 | linuxstb | bertrik: Although if the m200v2 is still a 128x64 mono LCD, I would guess the Clip LCD driver might work... |
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22:49:00 | saratoga | looking at the map file, i don't see any obvious field indcating the total memory used by a codec |
22:49:14 | saratoga | though i guess i could do largest D and I RAM addresses |
22:49:32 | Hillshum | where is makeamsboot it git? i can't find it |
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22:49:50 | linuxstb | Hillshum: Should be in rbutil/ I think. Otherwise, try utils/AMS/ |
22:50:20 | linuxstb | saratoga: Yes, plus look at the source to see which codecs use the malloc buffer (and/or grab the remaining space in the codec buffer). |
22:50:20 | | Quit fml ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
22:50:29 | saratoga | Llorean: if its happening with WAV its not one of my commits |
22:50:35 | saratoga | i'd guess he has the EQ on and doesn't realize it |
22:51:02 | bertrik | linuxstb, possibly, doesn't it also use one of those ssd controller? Even the display size is the same |
22:51:18 | Llorean | saratoga: Ah, read over the "wave" |
22:51:51 | linuxstb | bertrik: Yes, the Clip driver in svn is based on the driver used by the m200v1 and Logik DAX. |
22:53:36 | bertrik | hmm, sounds like low-hanging fruit :P |
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22:54:38 | fluoblack | hello everybody |
22:55:17 | saratoga | heh my WMA fix for the big I introduced with the IMDCT library in July fixed jgsprenger's problem, although hes been telling me for a month that builds from August worked fine . . . |
22:56:08 | saratoga | big -> bug |
22:56:18 | BigBambi | big bug? :) |
22:57:18 | fluoblack | I'm trying to install the bootloader (loader2) on my 3G ipod vut I get this message: Firmware partition doesn't contain Apple copyright, aborting. |
22:57:31 | fluoblack | any clue? |
22:58:16 | Hillshum | is it a 3g nano or classic? |
22:58:22 | fluoblack | 3G classic |
22:58:23 | linuxstb | None at all - loader2 isn't anything to do with Rockbox. |
22:58:41 | saratoga | i guess assuming that the sample rate was always 44.1 or 48k was a pretty big bug |
22:58:47 | fluoblack | yeah but ipodpatcher is |
22:59:20 | fluoblack | and that's where the bug is I believe |
22:59:26 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
22:59:28 | BigBambi | fluoblack: So? We don't support loader2 |
22:59:35 | saratoga | try installing our bootloader to confirm |
22:59:49 | fluoblack | ok I'll try that |
22:59:55 | saratoga | i mean obviously if you can't confirm a bug, theres no sense reporting it . . . |
22:59:58 | Llorean | fluoblack: They provide their own version of iPodPatcher anyway. |
23:00 |
23:00:26 | linuxstb | fluoblack: Does the Apple firmware work fine on your ipod? |
23:00:32 | saratoga | i should really read through hte ipl instructions so i figure out what of ours they actually use |
23:00:37 | BigBambi | And ipodpatcher requires a fully working Apple firmware. That message normally suggests it isn't |
23:01:23 | bertrik | linuxstb, AFAIK current sansa v2 experimenters are funman (clip), atomikpunk (e200v2?), me (clip), jdgordon (e200v2), kugel (?), Hillshum and you. Did I miss anyone? |
23:01:48 | Hillshum | kugel has a fuze |
23:01:48 | bertrik | Is anyone working on the sansa m200v2 at all? |
23:01:52 | fluoblack | well i'm confused now, (sorry, it's my first install) |
23:01:54 | linuxstb | bertrik: I'm not sure - I haven't been following development closely. |
23:02:08 | linuxstb | bertrik: But jdgordon hasn't started work yet IIUC. |
23:02:19 | Hillshum | betrik: yeah |
23:02:36 | linuxstb | Llorean: Didn't you buy some m200v2s and give them to people at devcon? Or am I confusing things? |
23:02:40 | BigBambi | fluoblack: Just as a heads up, if you want support here in the future you will need to use the Rockbox bootloader, and not loader2 |
23:02:56 | Hillshum | I'm more of a tester than coder(but will learn soon) |
23:03:04 | fluoblack | I backed up the original firmware and did all the magic in order to install ipodlinux, but should I restore this firmware BEFORE I install the bootloader? |
23:03:17 | fluoblack | now that I said that it seems obvious |
23:04:03 | Lear | saratoga: Related to codec size, at least Vorbis and AAC can (try to) allocate more than what the malloc buf provides. |
23:04:24 | fluoblack | all right, I'll speak to the concerned people at ipodlinux, thanks for the hints |
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23:04:27 | Lear | saratoga: For AAC, that isn't too hard to fix or at least reduce a lot. |
23:04:39 | saratoga | Lear: any idea what they try and allocate? |
23:04:57 | n1s | saratoga, Lear: do you think FS #9410 can (should) be closed? |
23:05:30 | Lear | saratoga: Vorbis allocates big codebooks and stuff; core codec things at least. There's the lowmem branch of Tremor that recudes that, but it makes for slower decoding. |
23:05:41 | Lear | saratoga: For AAC, primarily seek tables. |
23:06:40 | saratoga | looking at WMA, I only see about 200k + IRAM worth of addresses |
23:06:47 | Llorean | linuxstb: Yes, I did. |
23:06:47 | saratoga | and its a very similar codec as Vorbis |
23:07:08 | | Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection) |
23:07:25 | saratoga | why does AAC need seek tables? |
23:07:38 | Lear | n1s: I haven't noticed the problem at least. And I do a bit of seeking in MP3. |
23:09:45 | Lear | saratoga: To be able to seek accurately? :) I don't know if there are any magic bytes to seek for, but I do know that if you pass FAAD a buffer that doesn't begin with a real frame, you just get an odd error back. |
23:10:12 | | Quit tvelocity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
23:14:55 | linuxstb | I can't remember the details, but I think either the ALAC or AAC decoder needing the compressed frame size passed to the decode function. IIRC, the seek table is basically a list of compressed frame sizes (in bytes). |
23:15:02 | linuxstb | But that could possibly be revisited... |
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23:18:52 | Lear | Not really, for AAC at least. It needs to be passed at least a frame, and there's a define you can pass if you don't really know. But you do need the frame sizes (among other things) to locate where frames start... |
23:23:26 | | Quit mf0102 ("Ex-Chat") |
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23:29:21 | linuxstb | Lear: Are you talking about seeking or for normal playback? |
23:30:42 | Lear | Both actually. I've encountered MP4's with gaps in them, and playback failed if those gaps weren't skipped. |
23:32:59 | linuxstb | I know flac also stores the seektable - but that's only needed to assist seeking (Rockbox can seek without one). And then we have all those non-streaming codecs... |
23:34:19 | Lear | Yes, that's possible if you can detect a frame start somehow. |
23:36:24 | linuxstb | Lear: Does vorbis use both the remaining space in the codec buffer and the malloc buffer? |
23:38:28 | * | linuxstb wonders why vorbis.c is (C) 2002 Zagor... |
23:38:44 | Lear | Just the malloc buffer (and some static buffers, but I guess those don't count), AFAICR. |
23:39:37 | | Quit faemir (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
23:40:01 | linuxstb | Would it make sense to merge the two buffers - so we have a 1MB codec buffer? It would then seem easier to reduce it... |
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23:40:26 | * | linuxstb volunteers Mr Someone for that job |
23:42:03 | Lear | linuxstb: Now that you mention it: why wasn't it done like that from the beginning? :) |
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23:43:13 | Lear | Hm, maybe there was no easy way to determine amount of space left back then? |
23:43:31 | linuxstb | Or maybe we just hoped it would be temporary... |
23:44:09 | | Join funman [0] (n=fun@86.219.29.237) |
23:44:45 | funman | bertrik: (I was just reading the logs) atomikpunk works on the Clip as well |
23:44:47 | | Join krazykit [0] (n=kkit@host-69-145-35-234.static.bresnan.net) |
23:44:56 | funman | in fact most if not all the reverse engineering is made by him |
23:45:39 | funman | he started on a m200 but broke it, and bought some Clips to continue hacking (because they are the cheapest of all v2 I guess) |
23:45:47 | funman | not to mention their sexyness |
23:46:03 | Hillshum | yeah |
23:46:50 | | Quit jgarvey ("Leaving") |
23:47:13 | | Quit idshark (Remote closed the connection) |
23:47:13 | funman | By the way I found the part of the OF which initializes the SD card, and it looks exactly like the method described in the SD standard v2.00 and the various SD drivers I have read |
23:47:28 | | Quit bluebrother ("leaving") |
23:47:32 | Hillshum | sveet |
23:47:45 | funman | It handles MMC, SD, and SDHC |
23:48:29 | funman | since the Clip's "SD card" is not removable, I think it's worthless |
23:48:42 | * | Nico_P discovers VLC can read chapters from M4B podcasts |
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23:50:15 | funman | When looking at the same code in the FuZe OF, I couldn't find reference to SD's CMD8 (which is used to determine if Card is SD or SDHC), however it seems that the FuZe has a microSDHC expansion slot |
23:51:06 | linuxstb | Does the m200v2 look the same as the v1? |
23:51:17 | Bagder | yes |
23:51:33 | Hillshum | physically? |
23:51:36 | linuxstb | yes |
23:51:40 | linuxstb | From the outside... |
23:51:41 | Hillshum | yeah |
23:51:46 | Bagder | they're identical to me |
23:51:58 | | Quit mcuelenaere ("Zzzzzz") |
23:52:05 | linuxstb | Bagder: Ah, you admit to having one? ;) |
23:52:13 | Bagder | uuhhh.. no! |
23:52:20 | Bagder | two in fact ;-) |
23:52:26 | Hillshum | not even a "v2" stamped on the back like e200 |
23:52:32 | funman | since SanDisk makes no marketing difference I believe they are the same |
23:52:41 | Bagder | I have a v1 and a v2 |
23:52:43 | funman | .. same external appearance |
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23:53:47 | Boopop | Hi all |
23:53:58 | Boopop | My iPod won't switch on >.> Can anyone help? |
23:54:13 | Boopop | I plug into my PC - Nothing from either PC or iPod |
23:54:18 | linuxstb | Hold MENU+SELECT together for up to about 30 seconds |
23:54:24 | Boopop | I plug it into macbook = same |
23:54:25 | Boopop | Done that |
23:54:27 | Boopop | nothing |
23:54:35 | Boopop | Well |
23:54:36 | linuxstb | For at least 30 seconds? |
23:54:40 | Boopop | Maybe not for 30 seconds! |
23:54:49 | Boopop | It didn't take that long when it was working... |
23:55:04 | Boopop | I'll try it for 1 minute now |
23:55:32 | Boopop | Oook |
23:55:44 | Boopop | now I'm on a IRC chat room, asking for help |
23:55:47 | Boopop | it decides to work |
23:55:55 | Boopop | despite me doing exactly the same thing 5 minutes ago |
23:56:00 | Boopop | Anyway, thanks! lmao |
23:56:02 | gevaerts | You see, asking for help always works :) |
23:56:11 | Boopop | :P |
23:56:43 | funman | Hi, my SD driver for sansav2 doesn't work, can you help ? |
23:56:55 | linuxstb | Hold MENU+SELECT together for up to about 30 seconds |
23:57:10 | Bagder | :-) |
23:57:26 | funman | I have a select button on the gameboy, but not on the Clip, shall I press it ? ;) |
23:57:38 | linuxstb | That's your problem then... |
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23:58:55 | fluoblack | i still have the same problem with RockBox's ipodpatcher |