#rockbox 2008-11-05

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#rockbox log for 2008-11-05

00:01:00	kugel	bertrik: y, it was a bit weird
00:01:25	kugel	bertrik: I think I also couldn't switch the buttonlight on without the display
00:02:55		Quit tyfoo2 (Connection reset by peer)
00:03:57	funman	kugel: can you post exactly what does the different combinations ?
00:04:23	kugel	well
00:04:24		Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:04:39	kugel	I once tried to activate button light when there was no lcd driver
00:04:42	funman	for example, if you change the meaning of XPD interface with CCU_IO register, and then sets pin D7 high
00:04:52	kugel	it didn't work, so I thought it's on a different pin
00:05:28	funman	if you comment the lcd_init() routine, can you put the button light on ?
00:05:37		Quit bertrik ("zZz")
00:05:49	kugel	I'll try later
00:05:53	funman	thanks
00:05:57	kugel	or rather tomorrow
00:06:35	kugel	but I'm fairly sure, since it was the second "version" of the bootloader which activated the buttonlight (back when we used the git repo)
00:06:36	funman	do you mean today ? :)
00:06:44	kugel	probably ;)
00:07:18	funman	kugel: ok but it'd be nice to understand what is preventing the button light to be on, perhaps only setting the backlight on (it is only a power supply after all)
00:07:51	funman	i don't want to hurry you however, i know i am a bit impatient
00:08:26	linuxstb	amiconn: I don't know if you've noticed, but IIUC, the range coder in APE starts by skipping 1 byte of the input stream, then it reads 7 bits, then it reads 8 (unaligned) bits at a time. So if the encoder just shifted the stream by one bit, things would be simpler... (although admittedly probably not by much)
00:09:20	kugel	then again, I've had problems to switch the backlight on without the buttonlight
00:09:48	kugel	which surprisingly wasn't the case after rebuilding the bootloader
00:10:03	kugel	i first thought it was my mistake, until it happened again
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00:17:19	*	JdGordon reads last nights irc log and isnt smiling :<
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00:18:41	funman	JdGordon: what are you referring to?
00:19:20	JdGordon	the discussion on the quickscreen and descisions in the ml in general
00:20:07	*	JdGordon will bring it up tomorow eu time if he can be bothered
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00:56:16	*	amiconn wonders what's up with lostlogicx.com :\
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01:14:54	*	amiconn found another tiny optimisation for the ARMv4 division
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01:18:26	funman	amiconn: skip_byte()'s modification for bytebuffer increasing looks strange to me
01:18:43	amiconn	why?
01:19:23	amiconn	(or rather, in what way?)
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01:20:16	funman	oops no i'm mistaken sorry
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01:22:09	*	amiconn would like some Gigabeat F/X APE benchmark results with r19010
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03:17:54	Out_Cold	hey everyone.. i'm trying to figure out if rockbox is suitable for my needs. what applications do i use to sync to the ipod on both linux and windows?
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03:18:13	funman	any file manager
03:18:45	Out_Cold	so it's not like apple where you have to sync it? you just copy files?
03:18:54	funman	you just copy files
03:19:10	Out_Cold	and works with windows? and mp3 formats?
03:19:19	JdGordon\|uni	mp3 is a format
03:19:41	funman	it works with more audio formats and OS than any DAP
03:19:56	Out_Cold	yes.. hence why i said 'mp3 format'
03:20:01	JdGordon\|uni	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox
03:20:07	JdGordon\|uni	you said "mp3 formats"
03:20:09	JdGordon\|uni	plural
03:20:39	Out_Cold	i'm just trying to figure out if my female friend is going to kill me for doing this to her ipod or thank me.. it is more user friendly i am assuming
03:21:18	JdGordon\|uni	thats a pretty bad assumption
03:21:36	Out_Cold	well i'm asking
03:21:49	JdGordon\|uni	considering how most females would find ipods fantastic when it comes to user friendliness
03:22:15	Out_Cold	yea.. but she has never had an ipod before. nor has she ever used itunes..
03:22:32	Out_Cold	well it is reversible?
03:22:38	JdGordon\|uni	it is
03:22:55	JdGordon\|uni	if shes never used either then she wont know youve changed anything
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03:23:16	Out_Cold	well.. i'll take my chances... and if i come back castrated.. we'll have to laugh a bit about it
03:23:26	Out_Cold	she'
03:23:33	Out_Cold	s used ipods.. just not itunes
03:25:00	Out_Cold	ok well thanks for the info guys
03:25:14	Out_Cold	will let ya know if i make it out of there alive
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03:38:02	Out_Cold	umm another question.. is a nano 4th gen supported?
03:38:27	Llorean	No, that's why it's not listed.
03:39:06	Out_Cold	thought maybe i missed it... is there another option that will support ogg files on an ipod?
03:39:37	Llorean	No.
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03:40:06	Out_Cold	well this sucks now... anyone working on the 4th gen OS?
03:41:04	Llorean	No.
03:41:26	Out_Cold	just because or is there a particular reason?
03:41:36	JdGordon\|uni	because jobs hates us
03:42:05	funman	all the new ipods firmwares are encrypted to prevent that
03:42:13	Llorean	Firmware's encrypted, hardware is mysterious. It's a significant challenge, and nobody who owns one has stepped forward and tackled it.
03:42:51	Out_Cold	hmm.. so i'm SOL and stuck with 30 000 ogg files that i can't load on this ipod.
03:43:15	JdGordon\|uni	no... you can tracnsode them
03:43:31	JdGordon\|uni	which will give 30000 shit quality mp3s :D
03:43:59	Out_Cold	lol.. well... that's the last option i suppose..
03:44:59	Out_Cold	ok well i'll have to go get me an old ipod so i can try out rockbox.
03:45:21	Out_Cold	i never ever wanted an ipod before i seen rockbox
03:45:53	Out_Cold	but ok.. thanks for the support guys
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04:26:48	Chris__	hi, im wondering if anyone can tell me what language games for rockbox can be coded in?
04:27:25	Chris__	im assuming since its based on linux any language works works fine, but i'm not really sure...
04:27:30	Llorean	It's not based on Linux
04:27:34	Llorean	And the language is "C"
04:27:44	Chris__	c++ wouldnt work?
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04:28:06	Chris__	oh i was mixing up some stuff i read on ipodlinux..
04:28:11	Chris__	my b
04:28:28	Llorean	C++ would not work, without a lot of additional work.
04:29:21	Chris__	well i've been wanting to learn c anyway its not too different, do you know a site that points me in the right direction for making applications?
04:29:57	Chris__	i tried rockbox.com but it only talks about working on rockbox itself
04:30:06	Llorean	Plugins are an aspect of Rockbox
04:30:11	Llorean	That's why they're called "plugins"
04:30:12	Llorean	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/HowtoWritePlugins
04:30:29	Chris__	thanks, sometimes i miss the obvious things...
04:30:38	Llorean	Rockbox isn't designed as a full OS.
04:30:42	Chris__	okay this is perfect thanks,
04:30:50	Llorean	It's a media player firmware.
04:31:05	Chris__	alrite.
04:31:56	Chris__	well this might take me a while, but thanks for putting me in the right direction, bye!
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07:43:42	crculver	Any chance we'll see Ogg Theora support on the iPod?
07:43:46	crculver	It supposedly has low CPU demands.
07:44:00	JdGordon	low for desktops probably
07:45:04	crculver	Does the Rockbox MPEG player work with special hardware, or does it decode MPEG purely in software?
07:45:17	JdGordon	purely in software
07:45:19	scorche	the latter
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08:47:34	amiconn	Zagor: Do you have an idea what's going on on the lostlogicx.com build server? If it's handed out the Player build, it fails with some weird errors (happened 3 times already)
08:48:40	Zagor	wow
08:49:25	Zagor	but it also succeeded twice after the last 215-error failure
08:50:04	Zagor	I have no idea what causes this
08:50:27	GodEater	overly prone to interference from high solar activity ?
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09:00:33	amiconn	Zagor: The next two Player builds were done on a different build server
09:00:52	amiconn	Ah no...
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09:09:36	amiconn	Hmm, test_codec is influenced quite a bit by LCD speed. APE speed figures are noticeably lower on iPod Photo than on iPod G2 and Mini G2
09:10:18	*	amiconn thinks this should probably be fixed
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09:25:37	linuxstb	amiconn: Any suggestions? We could decrease the update frequency to about 5 seconds, and use lcd_update_rect instead of a full lcd_update.
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09:27:34	amiconn	We could also count the calls to lcd_update(), time an empty lcd_update() loop with the same number of iterations at the end, and then subtract the times
09:27:43	*	JdGordon would really like to hear more opinions on 9525 and the quickscreen item chooser list thingy
09:28:06	amiconn	It's probably not only the lcd_update(), but also the lcd_puts*
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09:43:41	JdGordon	OK, If I completly change the 4 added LANG strings should the lang version be bumped (and remove deprecated strings also) or not bother and just warn people to redo their voices?
09:45:00	linuxstb	If you change strings significantly, aren't they new strings? Meaning deprecate the old ones, and add four new ones?
09:45:41	JdGordon	none were added since, and the target lines wernt changed
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10:07:23	JdGordon	B4gder: your the lang guy (?)... which should I do?
10:08:18	B4gder	if they aren't longer used in their previous context I suggest new ids and blanking the older ones
10:08:34	B4gder	if they're "just modified" then just modify them
10:08:57	JdGordon	totally replaced...
10:09:38	JdGordon	hmm.. OK, I'll do it properly, but we should do a sort and clean up some time before 3.1
10:10:05	JdGordon	linuxstb: (noeone else seems to have an opinion), did you try the context menu?
10:10:52	linuxstb	JdGordon: No, but my imagination tells me I will like it more than the current huge list.
10:12:05	JdGordon	ok
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10:31:27	*	JdGordon hopes thats the last QS commit for a while :p
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10:40:27	cars1106	hey all
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10:44:45	*	gevaerts wonders about the deltas for JdGordon's latest commit
10:45:04	JdGordon	should have gone down?
10:45:21	gevaerts	They did, but not for Player and Ondio
10:45:36	JdGordon	in the name of consistancy
10:46:05	gevaerts	Ah, that would explain things :)
10:52:26	amiconn	gevaerts: Player and Ondio have no quickscreen...
10:52:48	JdGordon	which is what he what saying... + deltas
10:56:09	linuxstb	That's caused by adding a context menu for all setting items with the reset option?
10:57:20	*	gevaerts thinks that this reset thing is a great idea
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11:03:33	linuxstb	JdGordon: Did your commit remove the old reset-settings feature?
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11:06:52	JdGordon	no
11:08:44	JdGordon	its 10 lines of code and I tihnk a more logical place for it (being inside the setting screen)
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11:36:06	Zagor	is there a reason why codecs/asap, demac and spc are not called lib* ?
11:36:30	Zagor	the output is called lib*.a so it would be more consistent of those dirs were called lib too
11:36:59	Zagor	an Tremor
11:37:02	Zagor	and
11:37:37	B4gder	I don't think there's any particular reason
11:37:56	funman	Zagor: hello, did you notice FS #9527 ? (the author looked for you yesterday)
11:39:22	Zagor	oh dear. so ff3 craps up the DOM. thanks for the heads-up.
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11:41:43	amiconn	For demac there is a reason. libdemac is a sub-folder of that. demac itself contains the stand-alone decoder code
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11:45:14	petur	Zagor: it works fine in minefield (ff3.1 beta2)
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11:47:03	funman	hum and fine in firefox3.0 as well, now, (checking the link given in the subject)
11:48:02	petur	it didn't here...
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12:25:45	JdGordon	soap: is there any reason the ipod accesspry patch cant be commited?
12:26:13	soap	besides my apparent failure to sync it? ;)
12:26:20	JdGordon	apart from that
12:26:56	soap	No, nobody has reported new "bad" behavior in either the iPod's interaction with accessories or in behavior elsewhere.
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12:27:34	Zagor	so, does the irc log reader work with ff3 or not?
12:28:58	n1s	Zagor: for me at least, saratoga's comment broke the "today" view yesterday but it works when it's from a past day
12:29:39	Zagor	n1s: how about the seconds view?
12:30:18	n1s	Zagor: seems to work just fine
12:31:13	Zagor	so his css fix is as wrong as it looks
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12:52:53	Zagor	funman: also please try the "show/hide seconds" in your browsers.
12:53:10	Zagor	or whoever has various versions installed...
12:54:27	Zagor	ah, actually it's probably the show/hide joins that breaks
12:54:37	Zagor	because that class _is_ on a table row
12:54:59	JdGordon	yeah, show/hie joins causes very wide tables
12:55:07	Zagor	right, fixing
12:55:09	JdGordon	seconds is fine here though (firefox 3.0.3)
12:55:32	Zagor	so half of DerPabst javascript patch was right :-)
12:56:34	Zagor	reload and try again
12:58:55	JdGordon	yep, working
12:59:03	Zagor	good. thanks
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13:16:43	Zagor	amiconn: is the demac standalone decoder included for a reason? we don't actually use it, do we?
13:21:59	amiconn	That's linuxstb's work...
13:22:57	linuxstb	Zagor: I used Rockbox SVN as the "home" of demac/libdemac. It's my work originally.
13:24:11	Zagor	linuxstb: can you find a reason why I should not move libdemac to the codec root and remove the standalong compiler? as part of a cleanup.
13:25:20	linuxstb	As I said, it's the "home" of demac. Are you saying you're not happy with that?
13:27:00	Zagor	I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that. I would like a common naming scheme for the codec libraries. namely lib<blah>.
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13:35:18	linuxstb	Zagor: "demac" is a APE decoder I wrote from scratch. Part of "demac" is libdemac, which is used by Rockbox. But Rockbox SVN is used as the home of the "demac" project.
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13:35:43	Zagor	ah, now I understand
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13:42:23	JdGordon	jhMikeS: ping?
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13:58:56	n1s	FS #9401 sounds like a hardware issue to me, any ipod video owners around that can comment?
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14:01:19	JdGordon	if its hardware shouldnt it be trying to reset itself while rockbox is running (if it thinks usb is connected) or refuse to shutdown (if it thinks there is a charger)
14:01:28	JdGordon	maybe a outdated bootloader?
14:04:53	n1s	I don't know but as he seems to be the only ipod video user affected by this i don't know if we can or should do anything about it
14:05:22	linuxstb	I remember in the early days of Rockbox, a couple of people reported that Rockbox always misdetected USB attached. On these ipods, the Apple firmware would show a constant "charging" symbol, even when nothing was attached, so we just put it down to a hardware problem.
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14:13:08	n1s	linuxstb: so if the OF thinks it is charging it's a hw issue?
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14:13:39	n1s	charging even when no chagrer is attached even
14:15:23	linuxstb	I would say so. I think the user needs to boot into the Apple firmware, and see what happens there.
14:15:56	*	n1s posted a question to the reporter in the task
14:16:51	*	n1s also wonders if there has been any progress on the plugin localization patch since august, it's a shame to see it just sitting in the tracker
14:20:09	kugel	n1s: he (the creator) wrote about that in the mailing list recently in the settings vs binsize discussion
14:22:51	linuxstb	That would be a nice new feature for 3.1...
14:23:25	n1s	I agree but the last update in the tracker was from aug 13
14:24:25	linuxstb	As kugel said, midgey posted to the mailing list recently about it. I can't remember the details, but I think it was basically "very busy at the moment, will return to it soon".
14:24:58	funman	i can't bare that business !
14:26:35	n1s	linuxstb: yes, i found it
14:26:45	n1s	http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2008-10/0109.shtml
14:28:07	n1s	If he don't have time to finish it maybe he could post the current state to the tracker and say what's missing so someone else can do it
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14:38:51	funman	i wonder if these inand chips were designed to prevent concurrent implementation (especially open source)
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14:39:35	funman	the e200v1 uses such a chip if i understand correctly
14:39:52	funman	but the controller is much closer to the hardware than the one on sansav2 i believe by reading ata-sd-pp.c
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14:47:03	Zagor	what does svn status "switched" mean?
14:48:41	Zagor	and how do I unswitch it?
14:48:58	n1s	maybe this http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch04s05.html
14:49:54	Zagor	well I sure haven't ran any switch command, and yet my libspc dir is listed as "S" by svn stat :-\| hence the red build.
14:50:56	linuxstb	n1s: Yes, I'm not sure why he gave a patch to Bagder, rather than just posting to the tracker...
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15:06:15	funman	I'll take another way: i'll disable functions by modifying the OF until it doesn't boot anymore
15:07:59	funman	it's the way i learned how windows and linux worked, it can't be bad :)
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16:36:28	n1s	Bagder: what do you think of FS #9338 ?
16:43:55	n1s	and Zagor while you are looking at the build system, do you consider FS #9159 a bug? (i'm not sure i do)
16:45:33	Zagor	I think I do consider it a bug. while not terribly important, it is hardly the desired behaviour.
16:46:58	funman	can't fullzip depend on all ?
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16:47:36	funman	do you want to ignore the dependancy for faster execution of make?
16:47:37	Zagor	yes it can, but then make has to traverse the whole makefile tree to verify everything is built
16:48:09	funman	if you use make fullzip instead of make;make fullzip it's not a problem though
16:48:38	Zagor	no. that is probably the only sane behaviour.
16:49:44	super	yes we can
16:50:07	Zagor	super: ?
16:50:28	LambdaCalculus37	super: ?
16:53:50	super	sorry..
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17:01:25	*	LambdaCalculus37 reads through the latest patch at FS #8806
17:03:47	Zagor	I don't get it. he needs >1MB ram for playing mods?
17:04:14	LambdaCalculus37	Zagor: I didn't get that either. linuxstb had pointed that out in the comments.
17:04:38	LambdaCalculus37	In whatever case, this patch will need significant reworking to become a codec.
17:06:00	*	LambdaCalculus37 spots tabbing everywhere
17:06:33	LambdaCalculus37	Not to mention significant cleanup!
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17:15:34	LambdaCalculus37	Zagor: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8806#comment26413 <−− What does he mean by the recent merging of the codec and malloc buffers? Did I miss something, perchance?
17:16:32	Zagor	beats me. I try to stay away from the playback code. :-)
17:17:30	*	LambdaCalculus37 summons a playback code guru
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17:20:57	Zagor	DerPapst: hi. as you might have seen, I did apply half your javascript patch too. we were half right, both of us :)
17:21:04	DerPapst	Zagor: thanks for accepting the irc reader patch. Though the closing message is kinda confusing since it seems you have accepted the js.
17:21:36	Zagor	only half of it. the seconds style isn't on a table-row. only the join style.
17:21:50	Zagor	I realized that only after I closed the bug
17:21:53	DerPapst	heh. my patch only fixed the joins style
17:22:02	Zagor	whaa?
17:22:06	DerPapst	the other was correct of course. didn't touch it ;)
17:22:30	DerPapst	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9527?getfile=17766 ;)
17:23:02	Zagor	hah. well, I read like a moose. :-)
17:23:17	DerPapst	but now everything's fine :D
17:23:47	DerPapst	and i'm happily stealing the reader idea for ipodlinux :P
17:24:19	*	LambdaCalculus37 cheers DerPapst on ;)
17:24:37	Zagor	:)
17:24:43	DerPapst	though no perl. it's too crazy for me ;)
17:24:48	Zagor	haha
17:25:28	DerPapst	it took me about 2 hours just for the 4 liner to fix those urls with nicks in them ;)
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17:26:48	LambdaCalculus37	jhMikeS: Ping, what's the FS # for the beast charging patch?
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17:29:26	gevaerts	LambdaCalculus37: FS #9312
17:29:30	DerPapst	LambdaCalculus37: 9312
17:29:32	DerPapst	meh
17:29:34	DerPapst	too late
17:30:05	n1s	LambdaCalculus37: yes the codec and malloc buffers (each 512KB were merged into one huge 1MB buffer a couple of weeks ago)
17:30:37	n1s	as a first step to reducing codec memory usage/waste
17:31:00	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: Ahh, okay. Thanks for the info. :)
17:31:09	*	LambdaCalculus37 has a look at FS #9312
17:31:32	saratoga	is anyone here familar with how profiling works?
17:32:16	jchillerup	am
17:32:18	jchillerup	I am
17:32:46	jchillerup	I haven't ever touched rockbox, though
17:33:13	jchillerup	(strongly considering it at the moment)
17:33:39	DerPapst	you should! :)
17:33:47	LambdaCalculus37	I'm going to try out FS #9312 to see how it's working. What is its status, though? Is it in a "committable" state yet, or is there something else that has to be worked out with it first?
17:33:53	jchillerup	yeah, but I kindda wanna join the linux4nano project
17:34:23	saratoga	i don't think they really have a project exactly, just a website if the encryption is ever cracked
17:34:35	jchillerup	I'm in need of a MP3 player, and I think the ipods look better than the competition in terms of hard drive capacity vs. physical size
17:34:40	saratoga	anyway, i'm sure i need to edit the codeclib makefile to profile it, but i'm not sure how
17:35:03	jchillerup	They have a tremendous amount of info on all the hardware, and they are working on getting the chips dumped atm
17:35:16	jchillerup	saratoga: add -p and -pg if it's a gcc compiler
17:35:38	Zagor	jchillerup: ...and as soon as they make a breakthrough we will port rockbox to it ;-)
17:36:01	jchillerup	yeah, and that's where I'm jumping on the bandwagon
17:36:02	jchillerup	:)
17:36:55	Zagor	I wouldn't hold my breath though
17:37:20	jchillerup	No, I know it looks somewhat dark :)
17:37:32	saratoga	i don't think we use those flags for profiling in rockbox
17:37:54	jchillerup	hm.
17:37:59	jchillerup	Then I'm afraid I can't help you
17:38:09	petur	isn't there a wiki page about it?
17:38:25	jchillerup	Well, I can explain the basics for you if you don't know what it is altogether
17:38:35	jchillerup	(but I suppose you do since you asked fo rit :))
17:39:06	*	jchillerup could eat a cookie
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17:39:34	gevaerts	jchillerup: .netscape.com TRUE / FALSE 946684799 NETSCAPE_ID 100103
17:40:01	n1s	Zagor: you missed "make zip" in r19020
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17:40:16	jchillerup	gevaerts: huh?
17:40:23	gevaerts	jchillerup: a cookie :)
17:40:24	Zagor	n1s: ah
17:40:27	jchillerup	oh :)
17:41:37	DerPapst	hehe :D
17:46:01	jchillerup	do you serve pizza too?
17:46:29	LambdaCalculus37	Hmmm... So the beast charging patch has USB charging already, but what about with the AC adaptor?
17:46:37	LambdaCalculus37	s/adaptor/adapter
17:50:36	jchillerup	LambdaCalculus37: ipod?
17:51:30	Llorean	jchillerup: "The beats" refers to the Gigabeat S
17:51:33	Llorean	er "the beast"
17:51:39	jchillerup	Oh, didn't know that
17:52:21	LambdaCalculus37	jchillerup: Not all of us have iPods, y'know.
17:52:27	jchillerup	No, I know that
17:52:42	jchillerup	I'm trying to catch up with rockbox (and its lingo) in fact
17:53:00	jchillerup	Contemplating on becoming a dev
17:53:40	gevaerts	jchillerup: it's Gigabeat S, so shortened to gigabeats, then typoed to gigabeast, so it's now the beast
17:53:58	jchillerup	:)
17:54:07	jchillerup	I think I connected the dots myself, then :
17:54:09	jchillerup	)
17:54:44	LambdaCalculus37	Also because it's a beast of a target. ;)
17:54:48	jchillerup	hur
17:54:53	n1s	LambdaCalculus37: from reading the comments in the task i think it should charge from AC too, I never got around to trying myself though
17:55:26	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: I'll apply the patch and build when I'm on lunch. My beast needs a charging, anyway.
17:55:32	Llorean	jchillerup: The Gigabeat S is probably the most overpowered hardware any devs are working on right now.
17:56:12	gevaerts	Llorean: overpowered? It doesn't even play ape -c5000!
17:56:15	n1s	LambdaCalculus37: doesn't it always :/ the battery time is my primary problem with it
17:56:36	jchillerup	Llorean: overpowered, as in...?
17:56:54	n1s	jchillerup: a very much overkill cpu
17:56:56	jchillerup	oh
17:57:03	jchillerup	sounds interesting :)
17:57:14	Llorean	Probably at least twice as fast as anything else right now, I think
17:57:27	jchillerup	Gimme some numbers already!
17:57:35	Llorean	Numbers don't mean much here.
17:57:39	LambdaCalculus37	jchillerup: 532 MHz ARM11 SoC.
17:58:02	LambdaCalculus37	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.MX31
17:58:09	Llorean	It's 532MHZ, but at half clock already outperforms a 300mhz different ARM processor, plus it has various coprocessors that can add interesting optimizations later, etc.
17:58:18	jchillerup	nice.
17:58:21	Llorean	So "numbers" really don't describe its actual capabilities in a useful way.
17:58:29	jchillerup	What can it do in its original frimware
17:58:35	Llorean	Not much
17:58:47	jchillerup	mhm
17:58:54	jchillerup	sounds interesting
17:58:55	Llorean	The Original Firmware is a WindowsCE installation that's pretty restrictive, and klunky.
17:59:08	jchillerup	Enter ROCKBOX.
17:59:18	jchillerup	</shakespeare>
17:59:26	LambdaCalculus37	It's essentially what went into the early Zune models, albeit with an exploit we used to run Rockbox on the beast patched.
17:59:32	jchillerup	anyway, sounds like a pretty good player once you're rid of the CE
17:59:47	Llorean	No WiFi though
17:59:59	jchillerup	... but the battery life sucks?
18:00
18:00:05	LambdaCalculus37	jchillerup: Yes, and all we really, really need to finish is getting charging into the main code, and we're pretty much set.
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18:00:08	jchillerup	Is this a rockbox issue or a player issue
18:00:21	jchillerup	ok
18:00:23	LambdaCalculus37	jchillerup: It's a Rockbox issue, because we don't have complete power management in yet.
18:00:30	jchillerup	I se
18:00:31	jchillerup	e
18:00:37	n1s	both really, the battery is pretty small and we don't make the best use of it
18:00:46	LambdaCalculus37	So you're looking at about, ohhh... ~6 hours.
18:01:06		Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
18:01:54	LambdaCalculus37	But the performance of many codecs and video playback on the S is beautiful.
18:02:26	Llorean	LambdaCalculus37: That being said, it doesn't offer any realistic advantages vs. the Gigabeat F at the moment
18:02:54	Llorean	In terms of "using the CPU" I mean
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18:04:55	LambdaCalculus37	Llorean: That's true. The only codec I can really see gaining a massive benefit on the S is the Monkey's Audio codec, since we can now play up to -c4000 in realtime on it.
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18:13:38	linuxstb	What about midi with many channels? Is that playable on the "standard" targets?
18:14:55	LambdaCalculus37	linuxstb: Haven't tried.
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18:20:25	n1s	linuxstb: coldfire targets cope quite well, they play up to a max of 24 channels iirc pp does not do too well, skips a lot even if the max channels is much lower
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18:22:46	n1s	mainly this is because the coldfires can play at 22kHz and most pp targets cannot (this has changed recently though an i hav enot heard from any users trying midi on a 22kHz capable pp player
18:26:19	n1s	btw, "someone" should turn that plugin into a codec :/
18:26:36	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: You can ask Strife89 when he comes back. AFAIK he plays a lot of MIDIs on a PP target (c250).
18:26:49	*	LambdaCalculus37 will add that to MrSomeonesList ;)
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18:28:40	n1s	LambdaCalculus37: IIUC the c200 is not capable of 22kHz output in rockbox
18:29:46	n1s	but some ipods and iriver h10 got that recently so a report from them would be nice
18:31:46	n1s	btw, if anyone were to send me a pp player i would look at trying to optimize the midi player a bit for it :)
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18:41:13	DerPapst	iirc midi has only 16 channels. do you mean voices?
18:41:42	DerPapst	or rather notes playing at the same time...
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19:05:07	saratoga	i think the gigabeat S has a pretty big advantage over the F in it's plus pad
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19:27:29	LambdaCalculus37	Strife89: How is MIDI performance on your c200?
19:27:35	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: I have a spare c240.
19:28:05	Strife89	LambdaCalculus37: Rather poor on anything other than simpler MIDIs.
19:28:40	Strife89	If there are a lot of instruments trying to play at once, the skipping becomes horrible.
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19:29:21	LambdaCalculus37	Strife89: Can you do me a favor, and send me two MIDI files? One should be a simple MIDI, and one should be a more complex one.
19:29:46	*	LambdaCalculus37 wants to test on some other PP targets
19:30:09	Strife89	LambdaCalculus37: Sure, let me look through my collection. I might have to listen to a few to be certain.
19:31:08	LambdaCalculus37	Strife89: Sure.
19:31:31	*	LambdaCalculus37 gets his iPod color and iPod video ready
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19:32:19	DerPapst	send some self played ones ;)
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19:32:38	Strife89	DerPapst: I have none. ;)
19:33:10	DerPapst	heh.
19:33:13	DerPapst	i have some.
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19:37:38	Strife89	LambdaCalculus37: Okay, I've got three here.
19:38:08	Strife89	One skips none, one skips a little, one skips a lot.
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19:40:48	LambdaCalculus37	Strife89: I have one here that's skipping like mad.
19:41:02	Strife89	LambdaCalculus37: I know the feeling.
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19:55:08	LambdaCalculus37	Strife89: Performance is rather poor on my iPod video on two of the files you sent me.
19:55:39	Strife89	It's Portal Player as well, isn't it?
19:55:59	LambdaCalculus37	Yes, PP5021 IIRC.
19:56:06	LambdaCalculus37	The iPod color is a PP5020.
19:56:34	*	LambdaCalculus37 wishes that his mini were in complete working order, but still needs to wait for the click wheel cable replacement
19:57:47	*	Strife89 would like an iPod to play with. :)
19:57:58	LambdaCalculus37	Strife89: As you told me in the email, there's only one file that works perfectly.
19:58:45	Strife89	So, what's the test for? Are you working on the plugin?
19:58:54	LambdaCalculus37	Just benching for now.
19:59:16	*	Strife89 nods.
19:59:21	gevaerts	Strife89: do you often copy files between internal flash and sd while playing music?
19:59:32	LambdaCalculus37	n1s mentioned that if he had a PP target, he may want to do some work on the midiplay plugin and perhaps make it a proper codec.
19:59:44	Strife89	gevaerts: Not very often, no, but I have done it.
19:59:57	Strife89	gevaerts: Success has been limited.
20:00
20:00:07	gevaerts	in what sense?
20:00:19	Strife89	LambdaCalculus37: I'd settle for speed improvements. :)
20:00:45	Strife89	gevaerts: Such as the copy operation never "ending".
20:00:50	LambdaCalculus37	Strife89: Turning it into a codec proper would open the window for tons of speed improvments. ;)
20:01:06	Strife89	gevaerts: On some occasions, at least.
20:01:17	gevaerts	Does that happen more often while playing? Or am I misubderstanding things
20:01:22	Strife89	LambdaCalculus37: Full steam ahead! :)
20:01:42	Strife89	gevaerts: I haven't done enough copying to tell a difference.
20:01:59	Strife89	gevaerts: Other than that, it's usually slower when music is playing.
20:02:11	gevaerts	that's expected I guess. Less CPU available
20:02:22		Quit martian67 (SendQ exceeded)
20:02:39	*	gevaerts has ordered two different microsdhc cards, so he'll probably be able to test a bit more soon
20:02:39	Strife89	Slower still when buffering, but of course, we know why. :)
20:03:07	LambdaCalculus37	n1s: Would you like to take my Sansa c240 for help in optimizing the midiplay plugin?
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20:03:33	Strife89	I think it might be particularly error prone when it's in the middle of buffering, but my memory is limited.
20:04:50	gevaerts	Current thinking is that data corruption is more likely when the CPU is busy with other things (music, usb,...), so that would be expected
20:04:52	Strife89	With that said, what does Rockbox do if it has two read/write requests in line?
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20:05:34	gevaerts	Since it does cooperative multitasking, and it doesn't do DMA for sd, that can't actually happen
20:06:21	gevaerts	I think so at least. There may be some unexpected yield()s in there as far as I know
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20:25:38	amiconn	hmmm
20:26:02	*	amiconn actually liked the independence of 'make zip' & friends from the main build
20:26:30	amiconn	This way 'make zip' was possible even if the main build failed due to some plugin or similar
20:27:33	*	gevaerts spots that two people have now complained about this. Time to revert?
20:28:53	amiconn	LambdaCalculus37: In what way would making the midi plugin a codec allow for additional optimisations?
20:29:42	amiconn	(apart from the fact that this will be difficult, if at all possible)
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20:33:31	amiconn	Strife89, gevaerts: Two read/write requests in parallel can never happen, because the SD driver is mutexed
20:33:48	gevaerts	ah yes, mutexes too
20:34:50	amiconn	The problem is that the we obviously don't configure the SD interface properly, so the transfer timing can cause problems
20:35:09	amiconn	That should never happen with the interface configured properly
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20:40:24	*	gevaerts tries to understand the PP clock control
20:40:56	LambdaCalculus37	amiconn: Speaking from a "not the best programmer" point of view, making midiplay into a codec would allow it to use the playback engine in Rockbox. As for optimizations, I have no solid explanation for that
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21:03:01	amiconn	gevaerts: There are most probably separate clock/delay control registers for the SD interface. This is an RE task...
21:04:03	gevaerts	amiconn: right now I want to see if setting the clock above 80MHz changes USB behaviour
21:04:58		Quit martian67 (SendQ exceeded)
21:05:34	amiconn	Why should it?
21:05:43	amiconn	The PP5020 is specced 80MHz
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21:06:51	gevaerts	true
21:07:25	pixelma	the voodoo approach?
21:07:38	gevaerts	:)
21:07:56	*	gevaerts was actually confused a bit. PP5022 seems to be specced at 200MHz
21:08:00	gevaerts	s/200/100
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21:10:08	amiconn	gevaerts: It is. The PP5021 has no public specs at all though
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21:14:21	*	gevaerts would like to know how clock related registers are set up by various OFs during USB
21:14:54	gevaerts	If saratoga manages to get this jtag hookup done, that would be very helpful
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21:20:25	gevaerts	amiconn: do you still need gigabeat F testing?
21:21:05	amiconn	Would be nice...
21:21:59	amiconn	In addition to the standard realtime percentage of -c1000..-c5000, I would be interested in 2 more values (measured using the -c1000 test file) which need patching decoder.c
21:22:32	amiconn	(deactivating the predictor and stereo decorrelation resp. only the latter)
21:22:51	gevaerts	current svn?
21:22:55	amiconn	yes
21:23:19	amiconn	The extra tests are for my stats which part of the codec needs what amount of performance
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21:27:07	*	gevaerts finds that an ipod build doesn't work on gigabeat
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21:32:59	gevaerts	amiconn: the plain svn test is running now. What do I have to change specifically for the others?
21:33:05	saratoga	gevaerts: my ears are burning
21:33:13	saratoga	but i was trying to jtag the V2, not V1
21:33:38	gevaerts	ah, ok. I'll wait for someone else then :)
21:33:42	saratoga	though I suppose either of us could ask Bagder to borrow his JTAGed V1 and look at it
21:33:54	saratoga	how are you doing on free time?
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21:34:51	gevaerts	reasonably well. I've never done jtag though, and I don't have the required hardware (yet)
21:34:54	amiconn	gevaerts: In apps/codecs/demac/libdemac/decoder.c, disable the predictor and decorrelation by placing an #if 0 before line 169, and the #endif after line 184
21:35:23	amiconn	Run a test using the -c1000 test file (no need to try playback, it will only produce nasty sound, if at all)
21:36:04	gevaerts	ok. Building that now
21:36:10	amiconn	Then move the #if 0 down after the predictor call, and do the same again (will be slower, almost as slow as the plain -c1000 test)
21:36:30	amiconn	Please note that there's a dependency problem. Check that ape.codec is actually relinked
21:36:44	amiconn	(and complain to Zagor) ;)
21:36:48	gevaerts	I know. I'm doing a make clean to make sure
21:37:51	*	amiconn is currently running division call statistics in the sim
21:38:17	amiconn	I want to check whether a table-based approach for small divisors would pay off
21:38:28	amiconn	(multiplying with the reciprocal of the divisor)
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21:44:00	*	gevaerts sees that c5000 clearly isn't realtime yet on the F :)
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21:57:04	gevaerts	amiconn: http://pastebin.ca/1246210 has the svn results
21:58:36	amiconn	470%->580% realtime for -c1000 is quite an improvement :)
21:59:04		Quit FlynDice (Client Quit)
21:59:39	gevaerts	Indeed not bad :)
22:00
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22:03:44	gevaerts	amiconn: "special" results at http://pastebin.ca/1246216
22:05:33	amiconn	thx
22:08:34	amiconn	Interesting...
22:08:48	rikai	Hm, pretty sure FS #7515 and FS #2660 on the bugtracker are the same issue...
22:09:19	amiconn	arm920t is slower in the entropy decoder and filters than coldfire, but it's faster in the predictor
22:09:52	*	amiconn thinks there must be some optimisation potential in the cf predictor then
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22:14:30	gevaerts	The F is now faster than the S for -c1000
22:25:57	gevaerts	amiconn: I seem to be getting slower results for -c1000 on the beast than your r18739 result (544% instead of 553%). Are your tests done with the standard test track from CodecPerformanceComparison?
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22:58:01	NotADJ	I installed a theme, everything is right except the Now Playing Screen,
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22:58:17	NotADJ	It has the same look across themes, just different backgrounds.
22:58:19	NotADJ	Ideas?
22:58:51	amiconn	gevaerts: I use a test track that linuxstb gave me. That's probably not the same
22:59:06	gevaerts	ok. That would explain the differences then
22:59:30	amiconn	For some reason APE performance jumps a bit on the beast when changing things
22:59:40	gevaerts	NotADJ: where did you get the themes?
23:00
23:00:10		Quit tyfoo ("Carpe diem")
23:00:15	NotADJ	http://rockbox-themes.cleansoap.org/index.php?res=320x240x16
23:00:35	NotADJ	gevaerts: ^
23:01:13	gevaerts	NotADJ: that site is actually not updated anymore since a while. You're very unlikely to find working themes there
23:01:22	domonoky	NotADJ: they are outdate... take a look at the wiki WpsGallerys
23:03:07	gevaerts	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsGallery to be extra precise :)
23:03:26	NotADJ	:D
23:04:44		Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:05:03		Part dany_21a_
23:05:14	linuxstb	Does cleansoap.org belong to soap?
23:05:37	Llorean	Yes
23:06:21	linuxstb	soap: Is there a reason you keep that mirror active?
23:08:04		Quit BigBambi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:08:38		Join BigBambi [0] (n=Alex@rockbox/staff/BigBambi)
23:14:23	advcomp2019	linuxstb, plus there was an user that tried to upload to it too
23:18:18		Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection)
23:22:22	mcuelenaere	any idea how a DAP could identify that the USB is connected? (not using GPIO)
23:22:48	gevaerts	You could leave the controller enabled all the time and wait for actual usb traffic
23:23:06	mcuelenaere	that's a possibilit
23:23:07	mcuelenaere	y
23:23:18	mcuelenaere	but I don't think the OF implemented it that way (although they could)
23:23:38	mcuelenaere	wouldn't that be wasting battery?
23:23:59	mcuelenaere	I mean, one extra GPIO channel isn't that much effort
23:24:13	pixelma	interesting, lostlogic's server produces red builds again for the Player after a few green ones (at least the build table reports that) - but: the current available build for download has the correct revision number, I would have expected the last green one to be available (r19019)
23:24:14	gevaerts	It would, yes. What other way would there be? (/me assumes that they didn't use an ADC instead of a GPIO)
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23:24:27	mcuelenaere	I looked into the possiblity of ADC
23:24:50	mcuelenaere	is there a possiblity that you first need to enable something before a GPIO channel becomes valid?
23:24:53	gevaerts	Actually, maybe they put the controller to sleep.
23:25:10	bertrik	maybe an interrupt is triggered?
23:25:13	gevaerts	That would still waste a bit of battery, but not very much
23:25:26	mcuelenaere	because I see in the OF there are some sys_charge_rise_int_handler routines
23:25:54	*	mcuelenaere 's not very familiar with IRQ rise or fall stuff
23:27:08		Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:27:18	mcuelenaere	there's also some references to g_usb_charge in the OF; could they use USB charging as an indicator that USB is connected?
23:27:56	gevaerts	That doesn't sound like a smart way to do it
23:28:33	mcuelenaere	nope, but I wouldn't know how they would do it otherwise (except for the monitor USB traffic possibility)
23:29:25		Quit einhirn_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:35:20		Quit bertrik ("Leaving")
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23:37:23		Quit Schmogel (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:39:11	funman	mcuelenaere: to read the buttons on the clip and m200v2 (v4), you have to write to a certain pin to change the meaning of other input pins
23:39:38	mcuelenaere	hmm so something like an internal hw switch?
23:40:21	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:40:36	saratoga	so they multiplex two different physical pins to the same internal address?
23:41:15	funman	i can't answer
23:41:34	amiconn	That's not uncommon for SoC's
23:42:06	funman	i'm trying to understand why my bootloader calls create_thread()
23:42:40	funman	did you already have the idea of dumping the stack content in UIE() ? (to have more than the faulty instruction address)
23:43:11	amiconn	Bagder: around?
23:43:18	Bagder	yes
23:43:36		Quit petur ("baby feeding time")
23:43:55	amiconn	Could you try to find out what's up with lostlogicx.com and the Player build?
23:44:54	amiconn	It fails often, but not always, with weird errors. And even though the last one failed (according to the build table) the downloadable .zip states that it is r19022 (the .txt inside says the same)
23:50:42	Bagder	it's really not easy to spot any problem
23:53:03		Nick JdGordon\|zzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
23:53:23	JdGordon	ah bugger, i forgot to ask lostlogic about it yesterday
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23:54:32		Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
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23:56:46		Quit LambdaCalculus37 ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
23:58:02	JdGordon	Bagder: lost says he wont have time to look at it for a couple of weeks so remove the server
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23:58:07		Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:58:29	Bagder	I tried to build for player manually as rbclient on his host and it worked fine... :-/

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