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#rockbox log for 2009-01-17

00:00:29 Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht)
00:00:41 Join solexx [0] (n=jrschulz@e176101114.adsl.alicedsl.de)
00:03:59 Join Schmogel [0] (n=Miranda@essn-4db64c17.pool.einsundeins.de)
00:05:24 Quit miepchen^schlaf ()
00:07:33 Quit timc`` (Connection reset by peer)
00:07:43 Join timc`` [0] (n=aoeu@124.93.243.83)
00:10:28TheSkunkMandoes anyone know how to get firmware off a device? i cant find it within the files and i cant find this older version online either
00:10:40 Quit bertrik (Remote closed the connection)
00:11:48 Join bertrik [0] (n=bertrik@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
00:12:14 Join rockbox [0] (n=4c02b459@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e6d1d4c91a53d414)
00:14:29rockboxhello, i was wondering if the rockbox project for the sansa view was still running?
00:17:37LloreanTheSkunkMan: "How" depends entirely on the device. It could be in a hidden partition, it could be written to a ROM elsewhere. It may not be recoverable without taking the player apart.
00:17:38 Quit solexx_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:18:03Lloreanrockbox: Any updates should be in the forum thread, or in the Rockbox changelog accessible on the front page of the site.
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00:19:47 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst)
00:19:54*bertrik spots a si4702 fm chip in the sansa view
00:20:00salty-horsehi. here's a small documentation patch to UISIMULATOR (changed "archos" to "simdisk") −− http://pastie.org/362924
00:20:53rockboxLlorean: thank you, i will check there
00:20:59Lloreansalty-horse: You should post patches to the patch tracker.
00:21:02rockboxgoodbye
00:21:05 Quit rockbox ("CGI:IRC")
00:21:14tajlerois it possible to use the apple firmware for ipods on ext3 file system instead ?
00:21:17salty-horseLlorean, ok
00:21:34Lloreantajlero: That has nothing to do with Rockbox.
00:21:40LloreanQuestions about the Apple firmware should be asked to Apple.
00:21:59 Join ibseco [0] (n=ibseco@HSI-KBW-091-089-199-124.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de)
00:23:17 Join film42 [0] (n=GT@ip68-96-68-104.oc.oc.cox.net)
00:24:59tajlerosee well rockbox can not work without apple firmware can it Llorean ?
00:25:26LloreanSure it can.
00:25:28BigBambiyes, it can
00:25:32tajleroit can
00:25:41linuxstbErr, it can't...
00:25:41tajleroso I can reformat my ipod
00:25:55tajleroand just have rockbox on it
00:25:57Lloreanlinuxstb: Well, it can work without any of the on-disk Apple firmware.
00:26:02BigBambilinuxstb: without the 'main firmware' can't it?
00:26:12Lloreanlinuxstb: And the bootloader->firmware partition loading doesn't depend on Filesystem.
00:26:21BigBambii.e. the non in-flash part
00:26:35linuxstbThat's not what either of you said though...
00:26:58LloreanWell, it works without the Apple firmware, just not the Apple Bootloader.
00:27:11tajlerocool Llorean :D
00:27:21LloreanAnd the filesystem in-use is irrelevant to the Apple Bootloader.
00:27:27 Quit TheSkunkMan (Remote closed the connection)
00:27:30LloreanThat being said, Rockbox only works with FAT32
00:27:40tajleroso how can I do it in ext3
00:27:48LloreanWrite an ext3 driver for Rockbox.
00:27:51tajlerothat sucks
00:27:57tajleroFAT32 BLOWS
00:28:14LloreanThere's no need for the additional overhead for MP3 players
00:28:57tajlerofat32 is a slow filesystem though
00:30:57BigBambithis is an mp3 player...
00:31:08tajleroso
00:31:16LloreanSo what do you need "fast" for?
00:31:20LloreanYou need "minimal RAM footprint"
00:31:44tajlerobecause it gets fragmented really bad
00:31:46tajleroover time
00:31:51tajlerocompared to ext3
00:31:55LloreanFragmentation doesn't happen automatically
00:32:05LloreanIt happens if you *write* often
00:32:08tajleroplease do not use mp3 player
00:32:15tajlerouse media player
00:32:15BigBambi?
00:32:15LloreanLarge-disk MP3 players are, generally, write-once read-often
00:32:31tajleroyeah
00:32:32tajlerobut still
00:32:36LloreanThese aren't really media players. They're DAPs. Digital Audio Players
00:32:41LloreanSo your fragmentation concern is not a real issue.
00:32:55tajlerohow so
00:33:06tajlerodo you support the crappy file system
00:33:14LloreanYou won't get a significant amount of fragmentation with the normal usage patterns.
00:33:17BigBambiIf you would like to write an ext3 driver for Rockbox, feel free. The general feeling is that the effort and increased code size and complexity isn't really worth it
00:33:34LloreanIt's an issue of "choose the tools that are right for the job."
00:33:46BigBambitajlero: FAT32 is a) supported on all OS and b) used by all the OFs
00:34:00tajleroI do not care
00:34:02tajleroit sucks
00:34:08LloreanThen don't use Rockbox
00:34:17BigBambior any MP3 player
00:34:19 Join t0mas [0] (n=tomas@rockbox/developer/t0mas)
00:34:25tajlerodo not say
00:34:26tajlerothat
00:34:28bertrikthe sansa express also seems to use the si4702 fm chip
00:34:31tajleromp3s SUCK
00:35:10kugelbertrik: seems they were on sale :)
00:35:22tajlerowell not all digital audio players would used fat32
00:35:47tajleroplus some hard drives are coming with ntfs filesystem by default now instead of fat32
00:35:54tajlerothe external ones
00:35:57Lloreantajlero: What do non-DAP HDs matter?
00:36:00LloreanRockbox doesn't run on them.
00:36:18tajleroyeah I know I was making a point with something else
00:36:24LloreanSimply put: Rockbox uses FAT32. For what Rockbox needs it makes more sense than any other filesystem. Supporting multiple filesystems creates additional overhead that also doesn't make sense.
00:36:36LloreanIf you don't like this, don't use Rockbox, or use a customized build for which you've written your own filesystem support
00:36:59LloreanYou don't need to make any more points, you don't need to complain further about how much FAT32 sucks. These are your options. Deal with it, or do your own thing.
00:37:07 Quit film42 (Client Quit)
00:37:13tajlerowhy is it not a media player ?
00:37:19tajleroplease explain ?
00:37:31LloreanBecause currently its entirely designed around an audio player interface.
00:37:46LloreanThere's a separate plugin for MPEG1/2 video, but it's not part of Rockbox's core, just a limited plugin
00:37:55tajleroI am talking about the device
00:38:05tajleronot rockbox
00:38:10LloreanThis is #Rockbox
00:38:20LloreanSo we're talking about Rockbox on the device.
00:38:25tajlerook
00:38:40tajleroso why can't you call it media player instead Llorean
00:38:48tajlerofor the device by its self
00:39:05LloreanBecause very few of them are.
00:39:06 Join film42 [0] (n=GT@ip68-96-68-104.oc.oc.cox.net)
00:39:09tajlerocalling it mp3 player
00:39:25tajlerosupports the proprietary mp3 file format
00:39:28LloreanCalling it an MP3 player simplifies discussion because it's a term that the majority of people can associate with it.
00:39:38LloreanCalling it a DAP or media player causes confusion among many people.
00:39:49tajlerowell then
00:39:51LloreanIt's like calling them "kleenexes" even though a more proper term would be "tissues"
00:39:51linuxstbtajlero, Llorean: This is getting _way_ off-topic for this channel...
00:40:03tajleroman
00:40:12tajlerowhy are you guys commies
00:40:14Lloreanlinuxstb: Valid terms for the channel at least are on-topic, but I agree no more needs to be said at this point
00:41:31soap#rockbox-community −−−−>
00:42:01tajlerook so Llorean I can just reformat my digital audio player (ipod) into fat32 and run the boot loader thing and just move rockbox to it
00:42:21tajleroor do I have to do it via itunes?
00:42:32tajleroto get the apple bootloader
00:42:33linuxstbtajlero: Is your ipod currently HFS?
00:42:38tajleronope
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00:43:04tajleroI just want all my files in a separate folder
00:43:15tajleroand my ipod is becoming very slow
00:43:19Lloreantajlero: It needs to be working in the Apple firmware with the data partition being FAT32 to follow the standard Rockbox installation instructions.
00:43:36tajleroso I want to reformat it
00:43:40tajlerook Llorean
00:43:44tajlerothanks
00:43:57soaprockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodConversionToFAT32">http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodConversionToFAT32
00:43:59tajleroI guess I can run itunes or something through wine
00:44:18linuxstbOr the IpodManualRestore page
00:44:20tajleroI know how to format a drive
00:44:28 Quit domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:44:33soaphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_iPod_managers
00:44:49Lloreantajlero: It's not as simple as just formatting the drive in most cases...
00:45:08tajleroI do not want an ipod manager
00:45:14soapyou know how to format an iPod AND keep the apple firmware?
00:45:16tajleroyou do not need that
00:45:21tajleronope
00:46:32Lloreantajlero: If you don't have working iPod software, you'll have to use an unsupported install method. As the term suggests, we don't provide support for those, so I'd recommend doing it the "proper" way.
00:46:45soapIf you don't want an iPod manager why did you talk about running iTunes through wine?
00:46:51 Join domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky)
00:47:00tajleroso that I can restore my ipod soap
00:47:12tajleroor use the cd that can with it
00:47:14 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net)
00:47:19soapIf you need iTunes to do the format (through WINE?) then why did you dismiss my first link on the chain to not using iTunes to do the restore?
00:47:40tajleroI just use the folders on my ipod to play the music via a media player
00:48:11tajleroI do not understand what you mean soap
00:48:37tajlerohow am I going to get the firmware on there than
00:48:48tajlerowithout itunes soap
00:48:48soapYou're the one who mentioned running iTunes through wine - I gave you two (out of three) links to avoid that need. (not that I think iTunes works in WINE)
00:49:03tajlerook
00:49:07tajlerowell thanks
00:49:11tajleroI will check them out
00:49:16soapif you weren't so snotty and dismissive of my link (and linuxstb's followup) you would have seen
00:49:18tajleroI have some of them
00:49:42tajlerojust not all because of the continuing of this conversation
00:50:01soapwhen linuxstb said "Or the IpodManualRestore page" he means rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodManualRestore">http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodManualRestore
00:50:02tajlerobrb
00:50:19tajleroyes I understand that
00:50:26 Quit AndyI ()
00:50:39soapthen you have everything you need to know to never need iTunes.
00:50:41tajlerobut thanks any ways from letting me know
00:50:52tajlero:D
00:51:22Unhelpfulpixelma: that's a good argument against extending the version string, perhaps. maybe just add a "m" if it's not a "pure" svn build, and add other info to rockbox-info.txt or to a new build-info.txt?
00:51:25tajleroI hate itunes any ways
00:51:43LloreanUnhelpful: It *should* already add an "m" if it's not clean
00:51:53LloreanOr I think it used to
00:52:13tajlerosorry if I mad any one angry in here
00:52:30UnhelpfulLlorean: when we discussed this before, i had though it added some indication, as well... but i couldn't find anything in the source to back up that belief :/
00:53:03BigBambiany mods should have r12345m - in fact sometimes the m appears when it shouldn't
00:53:30LloreanUnhelpful: Well, it *used* to I thought.
00:53:36UnhelpfulBigBambi: perhaps spurious "m" would be due to build files that svn doesn't know to ignore?
00:53:46kugelsaratoga: I put the buttonlight and backlight fade for fuze (and e200v2) up
00:54:00kugelrockbox.org/tracker/task/9663">http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9663
00:54:17BigBambiUnhelpful: I don't know, maybe :)
00:54:32tajlerook thanks every one
00:54:37tajleroROCKBOX RULES
00:54:48tajlerokeep up all the good work guys and ladies :d
00:54:49UnhelpfulLlorean: would you be ok with ajb's patch if it just did a better job of finding the svn revision and working tree status, still used the rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=12345">r12345[m]-DDDDDD version string, and moved other info to either rockbox-info.txt or to a new file for build info?
00:55:49Unhelpfulthat satisfies my desires, which are mostly that 1) the version number works in some cases where it doesn't now and 2) the user can tell a developer of a custom build what they need to know to help.
00:56:28 Quit neddy ("Leaving.")
00:56:32LloreanUnhelpful: I'm satisfied as long as the version string is the same independent of source control method used, really.
00:56:46LloreanI don't care how much info you add to rockbox-info.txt or some other file. :)
00:57:17LloreanWell "independent" meaning "it's the same for all the ones we've added support for"
00:57:33kugelBagder, Unhelpful: I get a warning building the ams sansa bootloader which doesn't seem to happen on the build servers :/
00:57:43Unhelpfulso a -<extra> in place of the "m" is still objectionable, if the format of the <extra> varies?
00:57:51 Quit Schmogel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:58:06kugelbootloader/show_logo.c:50: warning: passing argument 1 of ‘lcd_bitmap’ from incompatible pointer type
00:58:14LloreanUnhelpful: to me, yes.
00:58:34LloreanUnhelpful: Since not everyone will know what a GIT version number looks like, so they'll see that extra and have no idea what the user's communicating.
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00:59:29Unhelpfulas i said... i can live with "m" and telling a tester who thinks they got the build from me to look in rockbox-info.txt
00:59:34LloreanYes.
00:59:40LloreanI think that's pretty acceptable
00:59:57LloreanI don't think checking the .txt is too much a task, and pastebinning it. You'll probably want to if the [m] is present anyway
01:00
01:00:03Unhelpfuland then i can say "that's from a week ago, i fixed your problem since then", or whatever.
01:00:59Unhelpfulthe idea of having a diff-stat of the local changes... is that useful? it gives an idea of where a custom build has changed things, but it doesn't tell a developer anything about what has actually changed, as a bzr or git commit label of some sort would.
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01:01:57linuxstbUnhelpful: Include the diff inside the rockbox.zip...
01:02:06 Join AndyI [0] (i=AndyI@212.14.205.32)
01:02:18LloreanYou could just tack the whole diff on if there is one, yeah.
01:02:31LloreanIt wouldn't affect 'clean' builds anyway, and it'd be terribly handy
01:02:59Unhelpfulthe diff itself? that might not be a bad idea. it'll be a touch difficult for git, since that has "local" history as well.
01:03:52 Quit FlynDice (Remote closed the connection)
01:03:54LloreanCan you diff against the SVN revision it's based on with git?
01:04:07LloreanSo you basically only get the "final" version of local changes?
01:04:40UnhelpfulLlorean: definitely... the issue there is that of git-using developers do stupid things, the file could contain not-very-useful info.
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01:05:29LloreanUnhelpful: I think that's fine. If people do stupid things, you get stupid files. Ah well.
01:05:31 Quit ibseco (Connection timed out)
01:05:45LloreanAt least in some occasions it'll be helpful, and in the worst case we can't know any less than we already do at "well, it's modified"
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01:07:04Unhelpfulbasically, a git user can, for example, make a branch, do some work, cherry-pick an svn revision to the branch without pulling in other new svn revisions, and then do some more work.
01:07:45LloreanSo you'd have a diff of all of their changes against that cherry-picked revision?
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01:07:52Unhelpfulthe obvious method of scanning the git log for the newest revision that comes from svn will fail in that case.
01:08:10Unhelpfulworse, the diff will miss their local work that was before the cherry-pick.
01:08:19LloreanAh
01:09:03LloreanDunno then
01:09:03Unhelpfulthe only clean way to handle the situation, as i see it, would be to find the last svn revision which has nothing non-svn after it, and diff vs that.
01:09:40 Quit AndyI ()
01:10:36kugelBagder, Unhelpful: nevermind, make clean helped
01:10:39Unhelpfulbut that would mean scanning the entire log. i think that we should rather expect devs who use git to be sensible - don't cherry-pick from svn, update branches with rebase, not merge or pull, ie , don't do anything that will mix local changes with svn ones.
01:11:16LloreanUnhelpful: I think expecting them to be sensible (and maybe even noting how it can fail somewhere) is reasonable.
01:11:59Unhelpfulactually... i'm not sure that a cherry-picked svn change will still "look" like an svn change. i know that merging from svn instead of rebasing on it will probably fail, though.
01:15:15Unhelpful"merge" basically means "add changes from that branch to this one"... "rebase" is more like "forward-port this branch to the latest version of that one"
01:15:47LloreanSo could you diff against the last rebase? Does that even make sense?
01:16:22LloreanAnd use the SVN revision of the last rebase, too, for that matter?
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01:17:33Unhelpfuli don't think there's any explicit way to detect a rebase in the log... however, git-svn adds a line to commits that it pulls from svn, with a git-svn-id in it that includes the svn revision
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01:18:50Unhelpfuli think that, under the assumption that the developer is acting sensibly, the best course of action is to find the newest commit with a git-svn-id, use that as the svn revision, and as the "parent" for producing a diff as well.
01:19:31Unhelpfulgit diff can do commit-vs-othercommit or commit-vs-workingtree, just as svn diff can do, so it's really a matter of deciding what to diff against.
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01:29:17Unhelpfulok, "git log −−grep=git-svn-id -1" will pop out just the latest commit tagged as being svn
01:30:09LloreanWell, I don't think it's unreasonable to tell developers they should ask sensibly when using git. :)
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01:34:02Unhelpfulthat advice extends beyond git, really - "if you're working on this project, or indeed any other, can you just please act sensibly?" :)
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01:48:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:00
02:07:43UnhelpfulLlorean: ah... svnversion adds that M for us, it's not any logic in our version script... but i can add logic to add such an "M" for git as well. :)
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02:08:41LloreanUnhelpful: Aaaaaah
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02:14:13*Unhelpful notices that git status helpfully exits with a 1 no matter what the working tree has in it :/
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02:21:26 Join Vern [0] (i=vern@bas8-ottawa23-1128534338.dsl.bell.ca)
02:22:27UnhelpfulLlorean: would using a "M" on git if there are committed local changes, and "D" if there are uncommited ones, be ok? or should it just always be "M"?
02:22:42Vernhow do i find a compatibilty list, will it work on touch screen devices etc?
02:24:16saratogaVern: theres a list on the front page
02:24:19kadobanVern: compatability list for what? rockbox in general? the front page has the list
02:24:56Vernoh thats, ok
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02:25:32Unhelpfulie, right now the branch where i'm working on rockbox.org/tracker/task/9758">FS #9758 reports "r19777M-090117"
02:25:44Unhelpfulif i edit some files without committing them, that changes to "r19777D-090117"
02:26:53LloreanUnhelpful: I think always using an M is best (to me). Personally I'd rather there never be differences, but I'm not sure what others will think
02:27:21 Quit Vern ()
02:27:32kugelcommitting is a vc-only thing, i.e. if you change the source, the build is changed, no matter if the changes are committed or not, so M in both cases imo
02:27:55Unhelpfulthe "what others will think" part of that is why i suggested alex ask the ML in the first place :)
02:28:38LloreanI think the difference between M and D will only matter to the host of the repository, and by the time they know what local git ID it came from, they'll know if it was dirty or not by the diff.
02:28:45Unhelpfulkugel: the difference is that in git, "commit" is a local operation, and creates local history, and that you can create a commit ID which the developer can use to "find" that work.
02:29:22kugelyes, but that does hardly matter for the version string
02:30:02kugelrockbox-info.txt will contain more detailed infos (if I got this right now), and developers will always have to look that up, no matter of D or M, not?
02:31:20Unhelpfulit doesn't yet, but i think the "next" step would be to add fields with the git commit-ish, and working tree status, for git repositories.
02:32:08kugelright
02:32:20LloreanI think it's best to leave the version number as "simple" as possible. So even casual people who are around to help can see the "M" and know "modified" rather than occasionally seeing "D" and having to ask around further
02:32:33kugelI don't think we need to complicate the version string more if rockbox-info.txt is containing all valuable information
02:32:34LloreanThe less we put in the version number, the better, in my opinion.
02:32:45kugeljust M if it's modified, nothing if unmodified
02:33:18kugeli.e. I agree with Llorean ;)
02:34:18Unhelpfulthe "dirty tree" method as alex has coded it wil not detect the addition of new, untracked files - it will only add an "M" for changes to tracked files. i don't *think* anything in our build system allows for the addition of a new file, without modifications to existing ones, to change the build output
02:35:20Unhelpfulgit-svn does not automatically get svn's ignore props, though, so maybe ignoring new files in the dirty-tree detection is for the best.
02:35:22kugelthat's right
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02:36:05kugelthat's why creating a build folder will not cause the addition of M
02:36:31kugel(unless you svn add those I think)
02:37:44Unhelpfulit looks that way, yes.
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02:52:58kadobanis there any way to get a sense of the popularity of rockbox targets? (like maybe are the statistics for number of downloads of each available somewhere?)
02:53:59Unhelpfulhere's alex's patch modified to output a version string in the same format as the existing ones from svn: rockbox.org/tracker/task/9758#comment27744">http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9758#comment27744
02:54:21Unhelpfuland if my summary of the issues brought up seems biased, let me know, because i don't mean for it to be :)
02:55:22saratogakadoban: Bagder posts download figures for the main site from time to time
02:55:35saratogathe Ipod Video and E200v1 typically top the list
02:56:04kadobansaratoga: great, thanks. that's mostly what i wanted to know anyway (which to really test well)
02:57:18 Join TheCHris [0] (n=ad23d284@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-a64b82fdf2ed2deb)
02:57:29TheCHrishey anyone here?
02:57:35TheCHrisi need help
02:57:57saratogatheres a lot of people here
02:57:58kadobanTheCHris: there's almost always someone here. it's usually easier to just ask your question instead of asking permission first :)
02:58:01 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
02:58:12TheCHrisoh sorry
02:58:23TheCHriswell im not sure how to use rockbox on my sansa
02:58:46TheCHrislike i extracted rockbox to it and i dont know how to use the plugins
02:59:46kadobanTheCHris: you'll probably have to be more specific. is there some error, or are you just generally confused? (did you check the manual by the way? it's a great place to start)
03:00
03:00:03TheCHrishow do i get to the manual
03:00:11kadobanrockbox.org/manual.shtml">http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
03:00:37TheCHrisand also when i use the auto installer for rockbox it sais its in MTS mode and i need to be in MSD or something
03:00:55saratogayeah thats in the manual
03:01:17kadobanTheCHris: you have to change that setting in the original firmware
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03:04:04TheCHrisdo i have to start it in restore mode or normal mode?
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03:04:39kadobanTheCHris: you should really read over the installation section of the manual, there's some important information in there (section 2 it is i believe)
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03:09:21TheCHrisok i did everything the manual sais
03:09:31TheCHrisnow i dont know how to use rockbox still
03:10:12kadobanTheCHris: if you installed correctly, simply restarting the device should start rockbox
03:11:03TheCHrisohhh nvm i got it
03:11:04TheCHristhanks
03:11:11kadobanyou're welcome
03:12:29TheCHrisok now how do i get my songs on rockbox
03:13:46kadobanTheCHris: rockbox does not have USB support activated yet, so you boot into the original firmware to transfer songs
03:13:56kadobanin sansa players that is
03:14:25TheCHrisi already have my songs in it but how do i get to them to play
03:14:43kadobanthat is quite well covered in the manual :) read on
03:15:24TheCHrisi dont see it
03:15:55kadobani believe chapter 4 is browsing and playing
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03:18:09TheCHrissooo why are all my songs gone now lol
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03:27:52kadobanTheCHris: they probably aren't unless you did something odd in the installation. try the 'database' browser if you can't find them in files
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03:32:33PaulJamTheCHris: i think on sansas the music directory is hidden by the original firmware. try if you can see your music when you set the "show files" setting in rockbox to "all".
03:34:00gartralPaulJam is right, alternitively, you can put x:\music (where X is the drive letter in wondows)
03:42:27TheCHrisgrr i cant get this to work
03:42:47TheCHrislike when i uninstall rockbox i cna see all my music but when its in i cant
03:43:44 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.84-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.5/2008121622]")
03:43:46gartralis RB on your dap?
03:44:31TheCHrisdap?
03:44:31UnhelpfulTheCHris: how are you trying to access your music using RB?
03:44:44gartraldigital audio playerr, your sansa
03:44:49TheCHristhroguh database
03:44:58TheCHrisand yes it is
03:45:21gartralohh.. it sounds like you never ititilised the database
03:45:33TheCHrishow do i do that
03:45:52gartral(please excuse my horrid spelling, its -10 here and the heatewrs arere out)
03:46:20TheCHrisoh lol its like -20 here
03:46:30TheCHriswell how do i do that?
03:47:02gartralput the selector over the database entry and long press the select key, there should be a n initialise now selection
03:47:17gartralthird item down on my e250
03:47:20Unhelpfulgartral: if DB is disabled, it should ask him to initialize it, instead of just showing him nothing, shouldn't it?
03:47:56gartraluhh, depends, ive seen this happen with my moms dap, particularly if show all isnt enabled
03:47:59TheCHrisits enabled
03:48:40gartralnow wait a few seconds and try again
03:48:42TheCHrisstill not showing my music
03:48:56TheCHrisi have a C200 btw
03:49:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:49:46LloreanTheCHris: What format is your music in?
03:50:03TheCHrismp3
03:50:12LloreanDoes it have ID3 metadata?
03:50:15gartralDRMed mp3?
03:50:27TheCHriswhats ID3 metadata
03:50:43LloreanIs it properly tagged?
03:51:23TheCHrismy music?
03:51:32LloreanYes.
03:51:55TheCHrisyeah
03:52:03LloreanHow was it transferred to the player?
03:52:03TheCHrisi mean what do u mean by properly tagged
03:52:08TheCHrisoh
03:52:18TheCHristhrough windows media player
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03:52:32LloreanWhile the player was in MTP mode, then?
03:52:43TheCHrisyeah
03:53:05gabe565Try to re sync it in MSD mode
03:53:14TheCHrishow?
03:53:18gartralthe id3 tags are the info most software and hardware MP3 players use too display all the info from the song, like genre, album, year, artist...
03:54:13gabe565Do you use Windows Media Player to sync song to your Sansa?
03:54:20TheCHrisyeah
03:54:24gabe565Sorry I meant songs
03:54:39gabe565OK so you were in MTP mode before you har Rockbox when you did that?
03:54:54gabe565Ugh, I meant had
03:54:56TheCHrisyeah
03:55:30gabe565OK so hol down the 'down' button and wait till a quickscreen comes up
03:56:24TheCHrisits not coming up
03:56:51TheCHrishow long do i hold it for
03:56:58gabe565Just a few seconds
03:57:28gartralhold it for 5
03:57:33TheCHriswhat screen do i do it on
03:57:36gabe565Yeah about 5 should be good
03:57:46LloreanIt takes 2.
03:57:52gabe565Try it from the main menu
03:58:00gabe565Anywhere should work
03:58:03TheCHrisit just scrolls down fast
03:58:08TheCHrisand doesnt do anything
03:58:10LloreanThe button map for the c200 isn't the same as the e200
03:58:18gartralumm, jold right
03:58:24gartralhold right*
03:59:05TheCHristhats not working either
03:59:34gabe565Let me check the keymap
03:59:36gabe565hold on
04:00
04:00:57gabe565rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-sansac200/rockbox-buildch4.html#x7-410004.1.1">http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-sansac200/rockbox-buildch4.html#x7-410004.1.1
04:01:10gabe565It says long submenu should do it and that's the down button
04:01:33gartralwhat bui;d are you useing?
04:01:55gartralbuild*
04:02:33TheCHrisbuild?
04:02:36TheCHrislike firmware
04:02:52gabe565Have you downloaded it recently?
04:02:58gartralyes, how did you install rockbox?
04:03:06gabe565A build is kinda like a version number
04:03:09TheCHrisi have the newest
04:03:38gabe565Then try restarting your player
04:03:43gabe565Then try to hole 'down
04:03:53gabe565Then try to hold 'down'
04:03:54gartralr19778?
04:04:00TheCHris did
04:04:05TheCHrisi
04:04:18gabe565Yeap that's the newest
04:06:33TheCHrisgrr this is so confusing
04:07:08gabe565#makeuseof
04:07:12gabe565oops sorry
04:07:18gabe565That was for a different topic
04:08:50gartralTheCHris: how about holding the rec button, this isnt supposed too pull up the quickscreen, but it should bring up the recorder
04:09:38gabe565I am not understanding, it seems like nothing is working for you! (???)
04:10:48gartralright, my friend drake has an OLLLLD c240, and it has these problems once in a blue moon's build
04:10:51gartralbrb
04:12:17gabe565That sound pretty annoying! OK
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04:16:17gartraland IM getting a data abort as soon as PCM buffer fills... with every codec
04:16:41Lloreangartral: Using a build you downloaded from us?
04:17:03gabe565What player?
04:17:13gartralmight as well be, only thing i changed was the bootsplash
04:17:20gartralmy e250
04:17:31Lloreangartral: "might as well be" isn't the same as "is"
04:17:44gartrali DID NOT change the core, at all
04:18:00gartralALL i did was change the bootsplash
04:18:02gabe565Try a normal build and see if you're still having the problem
04:18:15LloreanYou compiled it yourself, though. There can be problems with the compiler / compiling environment.
04:18:30gartrali did it from JDs system...
04:19:14LloreanIn the time you've been arguing, you could've downloaded and installed an official build and then proved me wrong, then.
04:19:31gabe565Just try a normal build!!! You can always back up the one you have
04:19:45gartralactually, in the time we were arguing, ive been waiting for my dap too load and windows too see it
04:20:11LloreanIt takes 2.5 minutes for your DAP to boot up and windows to detect it?
04:20:22gartralits been my intention too do as yyou say, its just ive been saying i dont change core functions
04:20:47gartralwell, it take 2.5 minute for the antivirus too relinquish its drive
04:20:55gabe565That must be annoying
04:21:13gartralyea, but ide rather be safe than sorry
04:21:20gartralthere we go
04:22:49 Quit PaulJam (".")
04:22:50gartraland now we wait for my POS 60 kbs dl speed...
04:24:07gartralohh, were fast today, it hit 85
04:24:25Lloreangartral: You don't need to tell us any of that...
04:25:28gartralmm.. sorry.. im just used too the run of the net not beliving me unless i do >.>
04:26:52gartralyep... same symptoms
04:27:08gabe565Have you had this problem before a few minutes ago?
04:27:11LloreanAnd you installed the full build, overwriting codecs and the main binary?
04:27:33gartralyes, i DELETED the .rockbox that was there
04:28:14LloreanWhen did you install your bootloader?
04:28:17gartraldata abort at 000090D0 (0)
04:28:45gartrali try weekly, it alway says its up to date
04:29:00gabe565Have you had this problem before a few minutes ago, though?
04:29:14gartralnoo
04:29:21gartralnot before today
04:29:36Lloreangartral: The next step is stepping back SVN revisions to see which one introduced it, and filing a proper bug report once you know which one.
04:29:44LloreanSince you can compile, you can be exactly specific.
04:29:57gartrali KNOW 19777 worked, for a fact
04:30:27gabe565Hmmm, seeing what 19778 changed, it shouldn't have broken it
04:30:36Llorean19777 only changed keymaps
04:30:44LloreanIt didn't touch a single file outside of the /plugins folder
04:31:10Lloreaner 19778
04:31:12gartralwell, ill try going back too r~770
04:31:19LloreanIf 777 worked, why go earlier?
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04:31:37gartraltoo see if it was a fluke
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04:32:12gartrali had one last week where make reconf mad a firmware_flash.rock in the e200 builds
04:32:23gartralmade a*
04:33:35gartrali cant rebeber how too batch build....
04:33:39gartralremember
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04:34:27kadobangartral: when trying to figure out determine working revisions, i believe it's better to go from the official daily builds (weren't you doing that already?)
04:34:50gabe565It's faster to get a daily build than to compile
04:35:25gartrallook above, it really wouldnt matter at the speed AT&T calls "fast"
04:36:10Lloreankadoban: The daily build is only useful for starting points. Several builds happen throughout the day so you can't figure out what specific one it is without compiling for yourself.
04:36:55kadobanLlorean: sorry, 'daily' wasn't supposed to be in that sentence
04:37:34Lloreankadoban: Well, "official builds" without the daily doesn't make too much sense either. What other official builds are there besides the single "current" one and the older "release" one?
04:38:38gartralrockbox.org/dl.cgi?bin=sansae200">http://www.rockbox.org/dl.cgi?bin=sansae200 <−− these "old" ones
04:38:43kadobani guess i'm insane, i thought sometihng was there that isn't...i'll stop talking now
04:39:04gartraldont worry, that happens too me alll the time
04:39:57Lloreangartral: Those are *daily* builds.
04:40:04LloreanAs I've already stated, daily isn't ideal for this sort of thing..
04:40:22gartrali know, but there still labeled as "old"
04:40:31LloreanYes, but I asked what builds *other* than the dailies
04:40:38LloreanPointing me right back at the dailies makes no sense as a response to that.
04:41:15gartralive always assumed that "daily" ment the newest build and old were the old dailies
04:42:06LloreanIf you have plural daily builds for a single target, clearly it has to refer to previous ones...
04:42:51gartralis this getting a tad OT?
04:43:44gabe565Yes
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04:44:00LloreanWhat "the daily builds" refers to is pretty on-topic.
04:44:04gartralanyway, do you think i deen too build the last few revisions, or are we satisfied with "r~777 broke it"
04:44:14LloreanYou said rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=19777">r19777 works
04:44:20Llorean"r~777" doesn't mean anything
04:44:36LloreanIf 19777 works, it doesn't make sense to say it broke it.
04:44:46gartralr19777
04:44:59LloreanWhat about rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=19777">r19777?
04:45:16gartrali hate my laptop's kb, so im trying too do things in as few keystrokes as possible...
04:45:35LloreanSo drop the r~ and type the 19 instead
04:45:44LloreanOr use a whole single extra character and include the r.
04:45:54LloreanBut there is a revision 777.
04:46:34gartralwe all get that my misquote meant rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=19777">r19777, right?
04:47:07LloreanBut how could 19777 be the one that "broke" it if you claim it worked fine?
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04:48:47gartrali never said rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=19777">r19777 broke anything, im saying its the last one that worked
04:49:03gartralim saying rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=19778">r19778 broke playback
04:49:22Llorean""r~777 broke it" is what you said.
04:49:28LloreanSo yes, you DID say 19777 broke it.
04:49:34gartralohh, i guess i did type "r19777 broke it" didnt i?
04:49:47gartralwell.... i ment rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&revision=19778">r19778 >.>
04:49:52LloreanI seriously can't read minds.
04:50:07LloreanPlease, read what you type before you hit the enter key. It takes a few seconds more, but it results in less talking in circles.
04:51:11LloreanAs to 19778, I can't imagine how it could've broken it. What player are you testing on?
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04:52:00gartrale250 v1
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04:55:15Lloreangartral: I can't reproduce.
04:55:38*_Auron_ misread that out of context
04:55:55LloreanMy PCM buffer fills quickly and fine, and no crash even after the compressed buffer is full.
04:56:43kadobanr19778 works fine for me on e280 v1
04:59:57gartralim noticing its prominent in higher quality files
05:00
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05:01:14gartrali get 30 seeconds and then a data abort
05:01:53gartralthe address given is 000090D0 (0)
05:02:03Lloreangartral: You said "every codec"
05:02:24LloreanQuality of file then is irrelevant for WAV and doesn't make sense for FLAC.
05:02:28LloreanCan you give more specific details to reproduce?
05:02:48gartralogg files, MP3s, acc and wav all fail
05:02:54LloreanYou also said when the PCM buffer fills, but this should take far, farl ess than 30 seconds.
05:03:12LloreanThe PCM buffer fills almost instantly since it only contains a couple seconds of audio.
05:03:20gartralhit play on a file, 30 or nso seconds of choppy playback, then a data abort, what else is there
05:03:45LloreanHitting "play" doesn't launch a file.
05:03:48LloreanIt resumes the previous playlist.
05:03:51gartralno, trying too load a comlete album, it fills very very quickly
05:04:05gartralok, HITTING SELECT
05:04:05LloreanThe PCM buffer fills and empties frequently and rapidly
05:04:08gartraloops
05:04:10LloreanYou may be thinking of the compressed buffer.
05:04:35LloreanAnyway, I've just tried high quality MP3, average quality MP3 and FLAC and none of them are causing crashes.
05:04:56gartralall 4 buffer FILL syncronusly and then it crashes, there is no reproduction trick, just trying too play my music
05:05:46gartralalso, it doesnt seem too matter between MSD ir internal memory
05:05:51gartralor*
05:06:28LloreanIt's possible that your sansa's damaged then.
05:06:56LloreanIf you deleted your .rockbox folder and installed a completely clean build, then we should be able to reproduce this problem.
05:06:58gartralbut it worked last build
05:07:06gartrali did
05:07:37Lloreangartral: So explain why two other people with e200v1s have now tried it and have no problems at all?
05:08:18gartralhow do i build 19777 from svn?
05:08:30gartrali dont know, but the last build worked
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05:10:22Lloreangartral: Just use SVN to "update" to 19777 (update can update to a specific revision as described in the man page) and then build it as normal
05:10:25gartralhrmm... most of my mp3s are 48 khrz sample rate
05:11:16gartralit says "skipped '19777'
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05:12:34kadobangartral: are you running svn update -r 19777 ? something tells me you're not
05:13:25gartralohh, no, i forgot "-"
05:14:57gartralohh, i needed svn CO -r 19777
05:16:07danpetersonCould somebody please give me access to edit on the Wiki?
05:25:55gartralok, at least now most of my music plays, all the 46 khrz sample rate stuff overloads the buffers still
05:26:08gartral48*
05:27:36kadobangartral: there's really a difference between 19777 and 19778? that seems...difficult to understand
05:29:29kadobanespecially considering that there appears to be exactly one non-comment change, and that's just to the keypad of a plugin
05:29:30gartrali swear, i wouldnt be here if my music played... as it is, im down too two albums both in VBR MP3 at 48khrz sample rate...
05:29:55kadobangartral: i realize, but 19777 is really different? if so, something odd is going on
05:29:56gartralthat dont play
05:30:20gartrali could go back another revision, but i can swear it was 19777
05:30:35kadobantesting is better than swearing :)
05:30:38LloreanAnd you're sure you played those albums in it?
05:30:47LloreanSince it seems now that it's not "all albums fail" but "these two albums fail"
05:31:56gartralthat whats got me, its skindred/roots rock riot, and disturbed/ liberate that are the "ultra high" quality albums failing in 19777
05:32:12gartralbut in 19778, anything i tryed too play failed
05:32:24gartraland all in the same way, at the same address
05:32:49Unhelpfulbad memory? :/
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05:41:59gartralso what goes into that space?
05:49:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:12:18geokiteI'm the ginnea pig for putting the new 64gb pretec compact flash card in a H120. I made sure the card was formated Fat32, copied the .rockbox over (3.1), and a sample folder of music. No go, codec failure. Switched over to 3.0, plays fine. (using the 7pre4 bootloader to RAM)
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06:14:13geokiteSize wise it appears it will only work with the original battery, as the card and adaptor is 6.45mm thick, compared to an original harddrive of 4.8mm thick
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08:31:28Unhelpfulobviously. is there any reason to say it once, let alone twice?
08:36:49Unhelpfulrockbox.org/showlog.cgi?date=20090117T072648Z&type=iPod%20Color%20-%20Normal">http://build.rockbox.org/showlog.cgi?date=20090117T072648Z&type=iPod%20Color%20-%20Normal looks very, very wrong.
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08:39:23rasherLooks like a possible multithread problem?
08:39:59Unhelpfulthat's the same host that had disk full issues yesterday, i'm thinking something wrong with its svn checkout.
08:40:41rasherAh, could be, I just remember missing lang strings popping up when trying to build old revisions with -j 2
08:40:47Unhelpfulall that mess is in stuff i didn't touch, or even go near - the revision touches one .c file, and no headers anywhere.
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08:41:55OrphHello,
08:42:07Unhelpfulthe "missing initializer" spam makes me think a bad header... though i suppose it could be a generated header, that isn't being generated before things that dep on it.
08:42:08OrphRockbox is available on the Sansa e260 yes?
08:42:12OrphI just bought one off of woot, lol
08:42:41UnhelpfulOrph: on sansa e200v1, yes... i would imagine refurbs from woot have fairly low risk of being v2
08:44:00Orpheh, either way it was cheap.. and Ive never had an mp3 player before.
08:44:08Orphand it has FM etc, so it was worth the money rockbox or not.
08:44:46tmztonly the firmware version will tell you probably, they change the backs occassionaly (I have a m20x from woot.com with REFURB on the back)
08:45:11Orphlol
08:45:40Orpheither way, $29 for a 4gb mp3 player should be nice.
08:45:42rasherUnhelpful: the lang stuff is generated, so it could very well be.. just seems weird that it only happens on that server
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09:10:25Unhelpfulvery, very weird. i can't help thinking that it's no coincidence it's that server, again, though.
09:11:46tmztanyone who can confirm that installing a bootloader built from source will allow booting OF on 8gb fuze?
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09:15:11Unhelpfuli don't think any of our fuze people are around at the moment... and i have *no* idea what the status of dual-boot is on it. have you checked the wiki, or the forum?
09:16:10tmztI followed the forum and have read from the beginning then the middle of the v2 thread, I did read that booting OF worked and I know this is necessary to recover if there is a problem
09:17:37tmztthe only thing I have seen in wiki is a message that v2 players are not supported and the V2 pages which document the firmware format for instance
09:24:02Unhelpfulunfortunately, i don't have anything to add to that :/
09:29:14tmztthank you anyway, I thought kugel was usually here at this time but I guess it's later than I thought
09:30:33Unhelpfulhe left about 6 hours ago, roughly
09:30:40Unhelpfulor last spoke, anyway
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10:40:10linuxstbtmzt: As far as I know, dual-boot should be working fine on the Fuze - the risky code is in rbutil/mkamsboot/dualboot.S, which hasn't been touched for weeks.
10:40:55linuxstbBut if it's broken, you can brick your Fuze, so you may want to wait until someone can confirm current SVN is working...
10:40:56tmztso the process is build mkamsboot from svn and use it like rbutil?
10:41:00tmztright
10:41:48tmztI'm somewhat concerned about the key problems since they are used to determine which firmware to boot
10:42:31linuxstbYou type "make" in rbutil/mkamsboot, then "mkamsboot <original firmware file> <rockbox bootloader> <output file>" and then copy the output file to your device. "rockbox bootloader" is the bootloader-fuze.sansa file.
10:43:01linuxstbYou then (or even before that) need to install a main Rockbox build.
10:43:33tmztwhat is dbop?
10:45:06linuxstb"Data Block Output Port" - the output port used to communicate with the LCD.
10:45:11bertrikdbop = data block output port, it's an interface to send/receive data from a parallel bus
10:45:25tmztsomething like gpio?
10:45:38bertrikit's used for interfacing the display on the ams sansas
10:47:29bertriktmzt, yes, a bit like that, but it can do parallel data, has a FIFO and is quite configureable to generate control signals
10:48:36tmztok, has anyone here tried this on their fuze (I can repartition if necessary), and what version would they recommend (revision)?
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10:56:26pixelmakadoban: did you put your plugin at flyspray already? (and what is it?)
10:57:24kadobanpixelma: yeah, it's...rockbox.org/tracker/task/7369">FS #7369 SGF viewer/editor
10:57:49linuxstbWow, that's old...
10:58:08kadobanhaha yeah, it was dormant for a while, i never really made it nice...going back to it now to finish it
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10:59:11linuxstbkadoban: Another option, if you're short on buttons on some targets is to put things in the menu, rather than on buttons.
10:59:59kadobanlinuxstb: yeah, i already did that a bit. it's difficult because i definitely need 2 directions of movement and a "fire" button, and a menu button...and it's /quite/ painful if i don't have yet another direction of movement
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11:02:23kadobanhow does the off button work in ondio? could i somehow use that for a modifier button (like a shift key), or does it turn off the device if it's help for not a very long time?
11:02:26linuxstbkadoban: Looking at your patch, you don't appear to be using any button combinations - they will help.
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11:03:32pixelma4 directions + fire + menu shouldn't be a big problem, there are quite a few plugins already using sonething similar (on Ondio this could be the 4 directions + "short menu" = fire + "long menu" = menu or the "off" button here though I don't like it that much)
11:04:22kadobanlinuxstb: do you know a good example plugin that does that? (if not i can find one or make a test for the logic of combinations)
11:05:21linuxstbMaybe sudoku
11:05:25linuxstbSee sudoku/sudoku.h
11:06:47kadobanlinuxstb: thanks, i'll have a look
11:06:53pixelmathat one doesn't have a nice mapping on the Ipods though (IMO)
11:07:57kadobani /think/ my mapping for the ipod is already okay (i don't own one but i've seen a bunch)
11:08:13linuxstbkadoban: BTW, I've just noticed your files have the old Rockbox (C) header in them. You should update that to the current version, assuming you are happy with the change (basically just clarifiying that the files are GPL v2 or later)
11:08:52pixelmakadoban: the "off" button serves as a hard power off on the Ondio but only when held for a while (I think +8 seconds), some things already use long and short "off", e.g. pause vs. stop in the WPS and it works quite well, I've never powered it off by accident.
11:09:01kadobanlinuxstb: oh, thanks. i hadn't noticed it was updated.
11:09:30linuxstbkadoban: And "//" comments are forbidden, and indenting should be 4 spaces. See docs/CONTRIBUTING for the coding style rules.
11:10:11pixelmabut the "off" button is placed at the top of the unit and isn't well suited as a "modifier" because it's a bit away from the main button pad - the "menu" button is better as a "modifier" there and button combos with it are possible
11:10:13kadobanlinuxstb: hehe, yeah...i have a script to change things to rockbox style but i hate editing in it so i'll do it at the end. i'm using typedefs a lot too which i think i need to fix
11:11:07kadobani could use short off for a menu and then long menu for a modifier i suppose
11:11:25kadoban(short menu has to be "fire" i think)
11:11:39kadobanerr...something like that
11:13:40pixelmadon't you need _PRE conditions when using the same button with BUTTON_REL and BUTTON_REPEAT?
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11:14:25pixelmathat suggestion for the Ondio doesn't sound too bad
11:14:29kadobanpixelma: i don't know, do i? it works without them on the sim and e200
11:15:55kadobani'll see what i can figure out from sudoku, i see it's using _PRE
11:16:29Unhelpfulhrm, what's special about the targets that i got yellow on... :/
11:17:11pixelmamaybe it doesn't matter here much because the long press is calling the menu (and then the release event can't call SGFBUTTON_PLAY). Guessing here a bit though...
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11:18:11Unhelpfulcoldfire. hrm, can i generally rely on an int, an enum, and a bool having the same size?
11:18:19pixelmaUnhelpful: maybe the common factor is coldfire...
11:18:44kadobanpixelma: oh, that would make sense i think...assuming the "normal" button gets triggered after the _REL
11:18:58Unhelpfulpixelma: i would guess so... it's aliasing warnings for the config variables that are bool or enum instead of "real" int.
11:19:44Unhelpfulconfigfile doesn't have a bool type, and i'm pretty sure the enum config type must use int, as each enum is its own type?
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11:20:30*linuxstb spots a very messy build table...
11:21:08Unhelpfulthose 3k points are so not my fault, though ;)
11:21:57linuxstbNo, I'm just talking in general... And some problems seem to be build-server related...
11:23:41Unhelpfulpixelma: coldfire makes it possibly a gcc3-specific problem. i can kill the type-punning warning, but i want to make sure that it really is safe to cast bool* and enum* to int*, and that the warning is truly bogus...
11:25:22linuxstbDon't other plugins use enum/bool settings?
11:26:08Unhelpfullinuxstb: many plugins avoid using configfile, and just write a raw struct out to disk as their config file
11:26:41linuxstbTrue, but some do...
11:26:41Unhelpfuldice.c was the one i looked at, and it uses TYPE_ENUM, but the variable that the config option maps to is an int
11:27:15pixelmakadoban: btw. if you start using combos... there some limitations in which buttons can be combined on some targets (e.g. only combos with "Play" on the H100 (H300 as well?) or basically none on X5/M5)
11:28:20linuxstbMaybe a "TYPE_BOOL" should be added to the configfile lib, to at least keep that clean.
11:28:38kadobanpixelma: i /think/ the only keypad i had a problem with not having enough buttons was the ondio, so hopefully that will be the only one. mrobe 100 i completely guessed on the buttons, but that was just because i don't know the device
11:29:18Unhelpfullinuxstb: probably. the enum situation is a bit trickier... i'm looking for other examples, pacbox has all of its settings as TYPE_ENUM, and they're all ints
11:29:48linuxstbUnhelpful: Yes, I'm looking as well - seems all enum settings are using ints...
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11:30:35Unhelpfulreally, i'm not sure how TYPE_ENUM *can* be made to work if you don't assume sizeof(enum) == sizeof(int)
11:31:30linuxstbWell, it seems "TYPE_ENUM" is for integers storing an enumeration...
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11:32:40Unhelpfulright, but in this case, i'd have to change an existing enum to some #defines
11:33:17linuxstbNo, you can still use an enum. e.g. see the "source" setting in wavrecord.c
11:34:38Unhelpfulthat's exactly what i was doing, but it throws a warning about type-punning on the targets that use gcc3
11:34:49Unhelpfulsame for using TYPE_INT for bool
11:35:07linuxstbNo, I mean you declare the items in an enum, but actually use an int to store them.
11:35:59Unhelpfulohhh.. i see. the bool variables are modified by core menu functions that expect a bool*, so again the assumption of same size comes in...
11:36:23linuxstbA new TYPE_BOOL would seem to be sensible to fix that. I guess no other plugins use bool settings.
11:36:54UnhelpfulPUN_PTR is likely safe for now, i would think?
11:38:56linuxstbI would just keep things simple (and clear) and do what the other plugins do...
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11:40:47Unhelpfuli meant for the bools. one of them already has a copy around the set_bool call, to detect change, so i'm making the variables ints, and copying them to bools for set_bool
11:42:19linuxstbI'm not following - are you talking about the current SVN version?
11:43:54Unhelpfulyes. the yellows i recently committed are because of gcc3 throwing a type-punning warning on passing pointers to bool/enum types to configfile.
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11:44:35linuxstbI know, and my suggestions were to implement a TYPE_BOOL for the bools, and to store the enums as ints, the same way as other plugins.
11:44:37Unhelpfuladding a TYPE_BOOL is possibly the right long-term fix, but i don't have time to do that until at least tonight.
11:45:39Unhelpfuli changed the enum to an int. the bool are now int as well, until i have a chance to do something about configfile itself.
11:47:48Unhelpfulhrm, wouldn't adding TYPE_BOOL require adding another pointer to struct configdata?
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11:49:47linuxstbI'm just looking at that as well... Maybe a union could be used.
11:50:59Unhelpfulif a union, it could also absorb the char *string member, which would actually make the struct smaller.
11:52:49Unhelpfulan anonymous union could allow the fields to retain their names as they are now on access... but initializers would still need to be treated as unions.
11:59:04Unhelpfulthe band-aid is commited, with a note about appropriate long-term fixes. i'll try to tackle that the next time i have a chance to work for a bit, if nobody else gets to it first.
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12:07:44Unhelpfulactually, i might have enough time right now... do we want "0" and "1" in the config file for TYPE_BOOL, "on"/"off", or "true"/"false"?
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12:09:24Unhelpful0/1 would be easiest, just one of the string pairs would be next-easiest, and all three supported would be probably more complex than it should be.
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12:38:42linuxstbUnhelpful: I think just 0/1 - apart from being simple, it means other plugins could change ints to bools, without invalidating current settings.
12:39:47Unhelpfuli'm not going to be able to finish this now, but i've started with 0/1, using an anonymous union. it's going to touch every single struct configdata, unfortunately :/
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12:44:09Unhelpfulit looks like at least mpegplayer already has options that could convert to TYPE_BOOL
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14:09:46attentahhi
14:10:54attentahthere is still no support for the ipod classic, should i stay hopefull ?
14:11:32domonokyattentah: nobody is working on it.
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14:32:02attentahok, ... =(
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15:05:02gartralhow do you tell what the current bootloader thats installed is? the RButil just gives what appears too be an MD5 checksum :|
15:06:27domonokygartral: you can see the bootloader version at start-up (maybe you have to press a button to see the bootloader text)
15:07:05gartralohh, theres no way while the DAP is still plugged in, huh?
15:07:07domonokyrbutil doesnt know the version. so it remembers the md5sum (better the nothing)
15:08:26domonokygartral: yes, for most players this is not possible.
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15:09:05gartraland rbutil is saying there is no sansa :/
15:10:29domonokyyes, it has a bug at moment. either try a older rbutil version, or the manual way.
15:12:42gartralanyway, im running bootloader 4.0, should i even worry?
15:13:17*domonoky doesnt know what the newest bootloader for sansa is, but its probably ok.
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15:17:46gevaertsThe latest sansa bootloader is 5.0.
15:19:08gartralis the volume control in the e200s hardware fixed at -74-6 or can this be adjusted by software? and thanks gevaerts ill go get m1.0.7 since i dont feel like hunting down mingwm10.dll
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15:21:11domonokygartral: rockbox offers the full volume range the hardware can give, so yes -74-6db is what the hardware provides.
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15:27:07gartralthought so, but my mom wanted too know if it could go louder than +6 (which i told her is crazy... buut.. here i am asking >.>) and thanks again gevaerts for telling me that the BL changed
15:27:45gevaertsYou shouldn't actually go louder than 0. Anything above that can introduce distortion
15:28:44gartraldistortion? phtt.. she just went and turned the EQs all the way up...
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15:29:19gevaerts:)
15:29:34*mrkiko would like his mom to learn using rockbox
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15:34:46gartraland if anyone cares, the problems i was having with 19778 are cleared up, after just now updateing the firmware with my patched bootsplash build
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15:36:07PaulJamWhen rockbox crashes while the disk is spinning, does the emergency shutdown of the disk when hard reseting potentially harm the disk? (H300 with MK4007GAL)
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15:39:41mrkikoPaulJam: oh... crashes with rockbox and h300... I'm an expert :D
15:40:00mrkikoor... I was.. no more crashes now...
15:41:43PaulJamwell, not with the official build. i was testing a patch and was wondering if it is wise to continue testing.
15:47:27mrkikoI think they harm the disk actually...
15:47:51mrkikoPaulJam: try to lissten the "CLICK" the disk does when you reset the player... It doesn't sound good... for me at least.
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15:54:13mcuelenaeregevaerts: is it ok if I commit http://pastebin.com/d30aec303 ?
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16:00:25mrkikoHas then rockbox been committed to gsoc or not?
16:04:51linuxstbmrkiko: What are you asking? Rockbox was part of gsoc 2007 and 2008.
16:05:30gartralmrkiko: thats waaaay over with
16:05:44mrkikook ok
16:05:51mrkikounderstood: sorry for the bad english
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17:09:40gevaertsmcuelenaere: that looks wrong to me. ramdisk_buffer is now uninitialised for everyone...
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17:28:21freemindhello. does someone know how to play pacbox? i have the files on my ipod in the .rockbox folder, but now i'm not sure what to do
17:30:51PaulJamdoesn't the manual give instructions?
17:31:43freemindwhat manual?
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17:32:01PaulJamthe rockbox manual: rockbox.org/manual.shtml">http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
17:33:58freemindi cant find anything about mame or pacbox
17:34:53PaulJamrockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch11.html#x14-18000011.1.12">http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch11.html#x14-18000011.1.12
17:35:41PaulJamwhich ipod do you have? maybe pacbox isn't available for all models
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17:36:44freemindi was actually trying to get it on a sansa c200
17:37:07freemindlooks like it isnt supported, then
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17:46:29kugelfdinel: hi
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18:11:53indiandragonhi
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18:12:44rasherHello.
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18:19:15indiandragonhi
18:21:30rasherHello.
18:22:42indiandragonhiya dude,I wanna know whether rockbox supports TV out
18:23:04indiandragonhav u got any info on tat?
18:23:15LambdaCalculus37Rockbox doesn't support TV out.
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18:23:48indiandragonoh....is there any development stuff goin on tat?
18:23:57LambdaCalculus37Not at the moment.
18:24:00saratogatheres a patch for the ipod video, but its just for showing pictures i think
18:24:22indiandragonthnx for d info man....
18:24:28saratogathe only rockbox target that i know of having tv out hardware and a fast enough CPU to be useful is the gigabeat S anyway
18:24:32saratogaand it doesn't support it yet
18:24:35BigBambiindiandragon: Please use proper English
18:24:53indiandragonOK sorry
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18:26:05indiandragonI got a myvu media viewer ,Is there any way I could use it wit rockbox
18:26:24BigBambino
18:27:05indiandragonoh...
18:27:22BigBambiThe list of players that work is on the frontpage of www.rockbox.org ....
18:28:20indiandragondude myvu is not a player,itz a glass with which u can watch ipod video
18:28:27indiandragonan ipod gadget
18:28:33BigBambiproper english please
18:28:43indiandragonsorry again
18:28:55BigBambiAnd I have no idea what a "glass with which u can watch ipod video" means
18:28:56indiandragonit is an ipod gadget
18:29:19BigBambiThen maybe - it depends how it works
18:29:29BigBambiSee www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodAccessories
18:29:35indiandragonpersonal media viewer
18:29:53BigBambiIf it uses tv out, then no, as has already been said
18:30:41indiandragonyes,I get it
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18:46:03indiandragon does nano first generation got hardware capability to give video out?
18:46:41PaulJamno
18:47:40indiandragonoh
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18:57:44LambdaCalculus37The only iPods supported by Rockbox that have any form of video-out capability are the iPod color/Photo and the iPod video, and we don't use video-out on either target.
18:58:56indiandragonthanks <LambdaCalculus37>
19:00
19:00:01indiandragonis there any project going on to support ipod touch?
19:00:05LambdaCalculus37Nope.
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19:06:15LambdaCalculus37indiandragon: Do *not* PM me asking for help.
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19:06:31indiandragonok
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19:26:36Monikahi
19:27:36MonikaI got a problem to run my sansa.
19:28:01LambdaCalculus37Share with us, so that we may help, and you may gain strength from the sharing. :)
19:28:05MonikaCan some one help?
19:28:38MonikaWhen i turn on my snasa e200
19:28:38LambdaCalculus37We can only help if you tell us what the problem is.
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19:29:14MonikaIt write: "No Partition Found"
19:29:52MonikaI try run it in recovery mode but all tips from faq fail
19:30:13MonikaRecovery stops on state: "Writing Image"
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19:33:59Monikawhat should i do???
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19:42:10Krauser_hello
19:42:25Krauser_how is everyone doing
19:43:05krazykitMonika, please have patience in waiting for an answer. if someone can help further, they will (once they read it, of course)
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19:45:56Monikaok, iv got a time ;-)
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20:12:56AlbrightIf I wanted to get a Rockbox-compatible player today, which one should I get?
20:13:28LambdaCalculus37Whatever's listed on the front page at rockbox.org">http://www.rockbox.org
20:14:06AlbrightBut are any of those models still for sale? I searched the web site for most of those and they all seem to be discontinued.
20:14:07saratogathe buyers guide wiki entry might be neat too
20:14:14LambdaCalculus37rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BuyersGuide">http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/BuyersGuide
20:14:20saratogawhat does the multilib patch for gcc actually do?
20:14:48LambdaCalculus37Then try eBay. Or better yet, if you'd like to try for an inexpensive player right now, check out http://www.woot.com and buy yourself a Sansa e260.
20:15:02LambdaCalculus37Woot tends to sell v1 Sansas as refurbed for dirt cheap.
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20:15:56AlbrightHey, that Sansa looks good. Can Rockbox read from the SD card?
20:16:11linuxstb_saratoga: It enables building of the various different versions of libgcc.a - for arm mode, thumb mode, big-endian, little-endian, software/hardware floating point, different ARM architectures etc, plus combinations of the above...
20:16:24LambdaCalculus37Rockbox makes use of the microSD card slot, yes.
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20:16:40LambdaCalculus37We can also read from microSDHC, something the Sansa OF doesn't do.
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20:17:10gartralhello
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20:17:26saratogalinuxstb_: is it a work around for 4.0.3 or will it be needed in all gcc versions?
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20:17:39AlbrightVery cool. I think I will buy this. Thanks.
20:17:52LambdaCalculus37You're welcome. Have fun with Rockbox once it arrives. :)
20:18:06linuxstbsaratoga: AFAIK, it's needed for all gcc versions. libgcc.a needs to be built with the same CPU options used to build the code you're linking it with.
20:18:15AlbrightI actually had a (non-Rockboxed) 4GB Sansa Clip which worked fairly well until I unplugged it from my USB port without unmounting it first...
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20:18:28saratogaodd that they wouldn't include this in the main gcc, it seems like a pretty useful feature
20:18:59linuxstbWell, there are probably 1000s of ways to compile libgcc.a - so we only build the ones we need.
20:19:24LambdaCalculus37Are there any objections to me changing the name of the Gigabeat F manual from "Gigabeat F Series" to "Gigabeat F and X Series"?
20:19:33gartralrockbox will play for a bit, then freeze, same symptoms as last night, and i know im running the latest BL/fw
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20:20:00LambdaCalculus37Or should we consider splitting off into a seperate Gigabeat X manual?
20:20:01linuxstb(well, maybe not 1000s, but many - we build 24 of them...)
20:20:06saratogaLambdaCalculus: that seems sensible
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20:20:18LambdaCalculus37saratoga: Which? Renaming or splitting?
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20:20:28saratogarenmaing
20:20:38LambdaCalculus37saratoga: Renaming it shall be, then. :)
20:20:40*linuxstb agrees with renaming
20:20:46*LambdaCalculus37 renames the manual
20:21:39LambdaCalculus37One other question... should we also add an additional image for the X, or just keep using the F image only? I ask because the X body is different from the F.
20:22:47LambdaCalculus37http://www.newlaunches.com/entry_images/200905/x30_2.jpg
20:23:56soapfake a third image which averages the screen / X / body sizes half-way between the two.
20:24:08soapnobody will know.
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20:29:35LambdaCalculus37Unless we can also get a nice SVG of the X.
20:30:09LambdaCalculus37It's a bit of a pain when two DAPs from one company can run the same build and are mostly the same on the inside, but not on the outside.
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20:32:30soapare they different enough? I really was serious about making a hybrid image. I think if you average out their slight differences the small image (at least) will be transparent to the casual looker.
20:33:00soapI guess for the full-size (manual) image there is more of a need. I guess I was thinking more of the download page.
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20:40:52LambdaCalculus37soap: I posted a link a little bit up comparing the F to the X.
20:41:09LambdaCalculus37The X looks more like a Gigabeast in body style than an F.
20:41:29soapOh, I saw the picture.
20:43:15LambdaCalculus37The biggest differences are the LCD (2.4" on the X, 2.2" on the F), a ZIF connector on the hard drive, and the buttons are smaller and further up on the side of the player.
20:48:33soapside buttons zif connector not visible. The dimensions of the body also appear to be at a slightly different ratio - as does the cross/X - that is why I suggested averaging - ahh nevermind.
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20:57:34saratogais it safe to disable libssp when compiling gcc for rockbox?
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20:58:40gartralrockbox plays for a bit then freezes, im not too shur whats going on, the crash is wierd, it doesnt return an error, it just blackscreens and freezes
21:00
21:00:01Unhelpfulsaratoga: i would *think* so. we don't build for target with ssp enabled, do we?
21:00:35saratogaand the wiki says its not needed
21:00:40saratogashould have searched there instead of google
21:04:51gartralhow do i play just one file?
21:07:36PaulJamgartral: either put it in a separate folser and play it, or from stopped playback insert it in the playlist via the context menu.
21:08:34gartralinsert inserts the whole folder
21:08:56PaulJamthe file itself has a context menu too.
21:09:07gartralthats what i mean
21:09:37LloreanIf you insert on just a file, it only inserts the one file.
21:11:35gartraloh.. i think it used too be the way i described a long time ago
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21:14:54MOHDMACHHi
21:15:21MOHDMACHI need wiki right's permission to post my theme.
21:15:59MOHDMACHIt is safe to post real names in here?
21:16:06LambdaCalculus37Yes.
21:16:10LambdaCalculus37What's yours?
21:16:20MOHDMACHImranMohammed
21:16:37gartralgareth schakel heren :)
21:16:45LambdaCalculus37One moment while I set you up.
21:16:50gartralhere*
21:16:55LambdaCalculus37gartral: I didn't ask you.
21:17:06saratogahmm gcc 4.3.2 errors out with "as: unrecognized option '-mcpu=arm7tdmi'" even with multilibs
21:17:11BigBambiMOHDMACH: Rockbox requires the use of real names, so whenever you edit the wiki etc it will be shown
21:17:47LambdaCalculus37MOHDMACH: All done.
21:18:25MOHDMACHThanks I just wanted to be sure posting the real name would be safe.
21:18:40BigBambiSafe in what way? This is a public logged channel
21:18:59BigBambiBut as I say, everytime you edit the wiki it is on the website for all to see
21:25:16amiconnsaratoga: It says 'as'. That means gcc 4.3.x also passes enhanced cpu options to the assembler, which the assembler doesn't understand
21:25:35amiconn(same thing why you need binutils 2.19 when fiddling with gcc 4.3.x for coldfire)
21:25:40MOHDMACHSafe as in nobody will use my name to post their stuff and if they do they will be punished for it somehow.
21:25:53BigBambi?
21:26:12BigBambiHow on earth will we punish anyone/be able to tell/etc
21:26:15_Auron_in other words you don't want someone fraudulently using your name and making a bad name for you
21:26:22BigBambiAnyway, this is getting off topic now
21:27:04MOHDMACHYeah nevermind then.
21:27:09UnhelpfulMOHDMACH: nobody's going to be posting stuff under your name on the wiki with just your name
21:27:47saratogaamiconn: I've got binutils 2.19 though
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21:27:52saratogai thought that issue was solved
21:28:47MOHDMACHOk. I guess I am informally agreeing to take this risk anyway since I already made up my mind to post the theme or formally or whatever makes sense. So forget about the question.
21:30:54Garethgartral: hmm?
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21:31:24BigBambiGareth: He was just posting his name (for some reason), and not pinging you :)
21:31:53GarethAhhh okay.
21:31:58Garethcool :) nm then.
21:32:01amiconnsaratoga: Then you need to find out what's going wrong.
21:32:39MOHDMACHAnyone remember a theme called "Ipod Simple"?
21:32:43amiconnI would expect gcc 4.3.x to work for arm. It's not that arm would be an uncommon architecture...
21:33:01saratogai would expect the current release of binutils to build for it too, but apparently not
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21:37:03MOHDMACHI can't delete the .DS_Store file it keeps coming back but the guidelines say it has to be removed.
21:37:45saratogahmm theres people online using gcc 4.3.2 and binutils 2.19 so i must be missing something
21:37:53MOHDMACHI say it is both amusing and annoying trying to delete these.
21:37:58saratogaperhaps the snapshot i grabbed is broken
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21:39:57amiconnWhat snapshot? Why not the release version(s)?
21:40:37amiconnThere seems to be a similar bug in a debian package for avr. Maybe your arm-elf-gcc calls 'as' instead of 'arm-elf-as'?
21:40:41saratogaamiconn: the release issue has some bug in it, i'll try and find the posting about it
21:41:09*amiconn thinks that an strace should tell
21:41:54saratogahttp://www.mail-archive.com/bug-binutils@gnu.org/msg06475.html
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21:43:28amiconnoh fun...
21:43:54*amiconn would probably try 2.18.x for arm instead of a snapshot
21:45:08*amiconn also wonders how much (or little) testing goes into binutils releases
21:45:26amiconnI mean, if a release doesn't even *build* for arm ...
21:45:58saratogayes that was surprising, although i think the issue is specific to compiling it with gcc 4.3.x
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21:49:40Unhelpfullinuxstb: here's what i've come up with, at this point. i'm not even sure it's worth making a FS task for it, there are lots of examples of things that could use TYPE_BOOL using an int and custom menu labels...
21:49:54Unhelpfulhttp://pastebin.com/m350cee28
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22:03:38theone2I'm getting a build error on my h340 with stock source code, anyone know what could be the problem?
22:03:46theone2the error is as follows:
22:04:24linuxstbUnhelpful: That looks OK to me. A third opinion would be nice though, but if no-one shouts I would just commit it.
22:04:38theone2CC firmware/system.c
22:04:38theone2/home/me/rockbox/firmware/system.c:49: error: `MAX_PATH' undeclared here (not in a function)
22:04:38theone2/home/me/rockbox/firmware/system.c:49: error: storage size of `cpu_boost_calls' isn't known
22:04:38DBUGEnqueued KICK theone2
22:04:38theone2/home/me/rockbox/firmware/system.c:49: warning: 'cpu_boost_calls' defined but not used
22:04:38theone2make: *** [/home/me/rockbox/build-h340/firmware/system.o] Error 1
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22:05:26theone2I'm svn rev. 19785, the most recent
22:06:31theone2and I also have logf enabled
22:06:52LambdaCalculus37theone2: Please use a pastebin next time.
22:07:13Unhelpfulit looks like those should later be ported from oldmenuapi, and use set_bool_options?
22:08:38theone2Lambda, sorry, here it is: http://pastebin.ca/1311100
22:11:03theone2it seems logf is the problem; the build works if disable it
22:11:36theone2except I need logf
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22:23:47theone2never mind, I fixed it; I have to comment out line 49 in fw/export/systemn.h
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23:10:30jbenjim converting 320x240 videos from the web, mostly mp4's, using MediaConverter, to 220x176 for the Sansa.
23:10:51 Quit fdinel ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
23:10:56jbenjI dont happen to be useing the pre-set extentions for the sansa, as there is a slight problem with the browsers,
23:11:10jbenji have the parameters set by hand, using LAME etc
23:11:23jbenjit works fine but Im going from an 80meg file to a 135meg file
23:11:41BigBambijbenj: File conversion is not really on topic here
23:11:55jbenjnobody seems to be speaking
23:12:17BigBambiThe channel is logged and for support and development. People read the logs
23:12:37BigBambiPeople don't want to have to wade through of topicness when they read the log
23:12:39soap#rockbox-community −−−−>
23:12:47jbenjanyway, my question is complete, does getting a larger , 135mb file show that im doing something wrong?
23:12:55soap#rockbox-community −−−−>
23:13:07BigBambiIt is still off topic, see soap's suggestion
23:13:26jbenjive lurked here before and seen much more off-topic chatter
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23:28:11Unhelpfullinuxstb: i actually meant that i didn't think it was a good idea, but i hadn't seen that core provides for setting bools via menu with labels, so i thought that many of the int-as-bool cases would need to stay
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